/ INFO-VAX	Sat, 04 Jan 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 8       Contents:P .ADDRESS forbidden in Protect/Collect Psect (Was: Problem protecting image secti' Re: 2002 HPOpenVMS Study: question E12a P =?UTF-8?B?UkU6IEkganVzdCB3YW50ZWQgdG8gc2hhcmUgYSBub3RlIEkgc2Vu?=	=?UTF-8?B?CXQgd! Re: Finding info on Alpha Systems ! Re: Finding info on Alpha Systems ! Re: Finding info on Alpha Systems ! Re: Finding info on Alpha Systems ! Re: Finding info on Alpha Systems ! RE: Finding info on Alpha Systems  Re: FTP  FTP problem solvedB Re: I just wanted to share a note I sent to the group this morningB Re: I just wanted to share a note I sent to the group this morning Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use?" Re: New Marvel machines? New news?" Re: New Marvel machines? New news?P Re: Search list logical name translation for JAVA$CLASSPATH using VMS Java 1.3.1 Unable to access Telnet or FTP" Re: Unable to access Telnet or FTP" Re: Unable to access Telnet or FTP" Re: Unable to access Telnet or FTP Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth  Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth  Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth  Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth  Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth @ Re: VERY ON-TOPIC:  quoted-printable shit and Mickey$chlock mail@ Re: VERY ON-TOPIC:  quoted-printable shit and Mickey$chlock mail@ Re: VERY ON-TOPIC:  quoted-printable shit and Mickey$chlock mail@ Re: VERY ON-TOPIC:  quoted-printable shit and Mickey$chlock mail@ Re: VERY ON-TOPIC:  quoted-printable shit and Mickey$chlock mail@ Re: VERY ON-TOPIC:  quoted-printable shit and Mickey$chlock mail@ Re: VERY ON-TOPIC:  quoted-printable shit and Mickey$chlock mail@ Re: VERY ON-TOPIC:  quoted-printable shit and Mickey$chlock mail Who Has PC164 SRM Console v5.6? * Re: [OpenVMS IPF] Boot Contest - I lost...+ Re: [OT] Lotteries (was Re: Happy New Year) + Re: [OT] Lotteries (was Re: Happy New Year) + Re: [OT] Lotteries (was Re: Happy New Year) + Re: [OT] Lotteries (was Re: Happy New Year) + Re: [OT] Lotteries (was Re: Happy New Year) + Re: [OT] Lotteries (was Re: Happy New Year)   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  * Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 12:01:05 +0000 (UTC)3 From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> Y Subject: .ADDRESS forbidden in Protect/Collect Psect (Was: Problem protecting image secti / Message-ID: <av6ie1$l7k$1@venus.btinternet.com>    Hi,   B For those of you who, like me, have been dining out or striking upD conversations down the Pub with this story, let me give you my final installment.  H I created another protect=yes psect and moved my variables over one at aF time until it fell over at run-time and came to the conclusion that on< VAX/VMS 6.2 Linker V05-13 you cannot collect and protect anyB program section that contains a .ADDRESS directive. (Or .ASCID etcH anything that involves an address) But on Alpha the compiler, linker and. image activator seem to be far more forgiving!   But why did $LINK/PROTECT work?   K Anyway in my case I was able to (arguably do what I should have done in the > forst place) move all of my .ADDRESS and .ASCID directives andK working-storage to a read-only (NOWRT) program section whose virtue, by its G very nature and definition, will never be brought into question. So now K every writable Psect is protected from User Mode write access and my dinner K guests are champing at the bit for any similar problems with Itanium. Bring  it on!!! (Maybe a board game?)  L Strangely, this restriction rings a bell and (surprise, surprise) I couldn'tJ find any .ADDRESS directives in any writeable PSECTs in my other UWSSs butJ if anyone has an explanation or pointer to any documentation then I really would appreciate it.   Regards Richard Maher    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jan 03 08:17:47 +0100 ) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) 0 Subject: Re: 2002 HPOpenVMS Study: question E12a) Message-ID: <orvvchfu$VWM@elias.decus.ch>   ] In article <3E14B3D4.9080602@Free.fr>, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr> writes:  > Paul Sture a crit: ` >> In article <3E13FD55.4070700@Free.fr>, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr> writes: >>   >>>David J. Dachtera a crit:  >>> ; >>>>I thought it was the goose that lays the golden eggs...  >>> O >>>Well, in France, it's a hen actually. Isn't the chicken its descendance? :-)  >>>  >>>  >>>  >>>>>My 2003 two euros.  >>>>2 >>>>Equiv. (rough) $2.00US? Such is inflation, no? >>> . >>>r u jokin? as of today, 1 US$ is 0.99 euro. >>>  >>  M >> Yes he is joking.  He's contrasting your "two euros" with the common usage 0 >> "my 2 cents". That's inflation, n'est-ce pas? > 
 > Il est ! > :-)  >  > Bonne anne, Paul. > G Bonne annee aussi (7 bit gateway here - doesn't do accented characters)    --  
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 07:44:07 -05005 From: "Bochnik, William J" <William_Bochnik@acml.com> Y Subject: =?UTF-8?B?UkU6IEkganVzdCB3YW50ZWQgdG8gc2hhcmUgYSBub3RlIEkgc2Vu?=	=?UTF-8?B?CXQgd O Message-ID: <2D75787AAF09C64481BDFD89113BE6D50BCEF6@ac2kama0102.ac.lp.acml.com>   F I think I see why you were going down the Nazi track on this - I wasntH talking about a world language - I was speaking of a national language -H that was what the original poster mentioned.  Now if there is a dominantJ language in the U.S. I'd back selecting it as the national language and beL done with it.  As for a world language - well that would be difficult to get everyone to agree on one.    -----Original Message-----  8 From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca]  Sent: Fri 1/3/2003 4:30 PM   To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  Cc: K Subject: Re: I just wanted to share a note I sen t to the group this mornin  g        "Bochnik, William J" wrote: E > but for practical reasons 1 language makes sense.  Now to take your 	 argument  @ > to the extreem, we should have every possible language on all 
 > road signs    I And to use your logic, the logical choice for a single language would be  E chinese since it is the dominant language for the world population of  humans. J For the same reason the USA wouldn't want to drop english as its de-facto G standard langauge in favour of the more "logical" chinese, many nations  prefer  L to keep their own language instead of adopting english as official language.    K The "global" village will turn out with a whole bunch of language, and one  L common "english" language as interchange, or lowest common denominator. But F there are problems with this since this "english" now has significant  variations around the world.    J I don't expect americans to know what a depanneur is.  But it is a common K expression in english quebec (influence from local dominant language). And  J while americans don't see anything wrong naming a boy "Randy", in the rest of  J the world, they wouldn't dare do that. There is Tyre and Tire. Potato and K Potatoe, Rubbish and garbage, bike and pushbike, and then there are common  J words with different meanings, such as fanny. And I think that even inside the K USA, you will see different english, especially with the spanish influence  . affecting some parts of USA more than others.   C A well travelled person learns those differences. One that has been 
 insulated A in his own country all his life wouldn't know those differences.        I The information contained in this transmission may contain privileged and J confidential information and is intended only for the use of the person(s)L named above.  If you are not the intended recipient, or an employee or agentF responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, anyK review, dissemination, distribution or duplication of this communication is J strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contactD the sender immediately by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of theI original message. Please note that we do not accept account orders and/or J instructions by e-mail, and therefore will not be responsible for carrying$ out such orders and/or instructions.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 10:30:12 GMT . From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)* Subject: Re: Finding info on Alpha Systems5 Message-ID: <UIyR9.232627$qq5.2662446@news.chello.at>   O In article <v1cp5tpu4mq33@news.supernews.com>, "ICUSC" <sales@hpaq.net> writes: / >Now go to hp.com or compaq.com and try to find  >anything about alpha systems  > % >For the layman, Alphas DO NOT EXIST.  >  >Sad... very sad !  	 Hi David. ; Care to explain your rants ? Or did you forget the smiley ? F Goto Servers or Workstations Home Page, then to Alpha Servers or Alpha
 Workstations. G Sad is only, DS10, DS20e and ES40 are the current workstation offerings G (btw. where is the XP900 and XP1000 ?) while servers cover the DS25 and % ES45 (and even the GS series) also...   " http://www.compaq.com/alphaserver/( http://www.hp.com/workstations/risc.html   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 11:57:59 +0100 6 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>* Subject: Re: Finding info on Alpha Systems) Message-ID: <3E16BE37.7090504@vajhoej.dk>    Peter LANGSTOEGER wrote:= > Care to explain your rants ? Or did you forget the smiley ? H > Goto Servers or Workstations Home Page, then to Alpha Servers or Alpha > Workstations. I > Sad is only, DS10, DS20e and ES40 are the current workstation offerings I > (btw. where is the XP900 and XP1000 ?) while servers cover the DS25 and ' > ES45 (and even the GS series) also...    XP900 is DS10 as far as I know.    XP1000 is EOL'ed I assume.   Arne   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 11:10:34 GMT . From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)* Subject: Re: Finding info on Alpha Systems5 Message-ID: <KizR9.232714$qq5.2671407@news.chello.at>   b In article <3E16BE37.7090504@vajhoej.dk>, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk> writes: >Peter LANGSTOEGER wrote: > >> Care to explain your rants ? Or did you forget the smiley ?I >> Goto Servers or Workstations Home Page, then to Alpha Servers or Alpha  >> Workstations.J >> Sad is only, DS10, DS20e and ES40 are the current workstation offeringsJ >> (btw. where is the XP900 and XP1000 ?) while servers cover the DS25 and( >> ES45 (and even the GS series) also... >   >XP900 is DS10 as far as I know. >  >XP1000 is EOL'ed I assume.   6 1.) Yes, XP900 is the workstation variant of the DS10.B Why did they EOL the workstation while still offering the server ?G Why do the offer the DS10 (with graphic card) in the workstation page ?    2.) Yes, XP1000 is EOLed. C Why did they EOL the XP1000 and didn't EOL the DS10 ? The XP1000 is ? faster (500MHz and 667MHz) than the DS10 (433MHz and 600MHz)...   D There is great inconsistency in the HPQ alpha workstation offerings. This was my point.   But what was David's ?   -Peter  H PS: Please ! Don't post and mail !! Do one or the other but not both !!! --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 08:57:17 -0500 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)* Subject: Re: Finding info on Alpha SystemsL Message-ID: <rdeininger-0401030857170001@user-2ive2o5.dialup.mindspring.com>  J In article <UIyR9.232627$qq5.2662446@news.chello.at>, peter@langstoeger.at wrote:  P >In article <v1cp5tpu4mq33@news.supernews.com>, "ICUSC" <sales@hpaq.net> writes:0 >>Now go to hp.com or compaq.com and try to find >>anything about alpha systems >>& >>For the layman, Alphas DO NOT EXIST. >> >>Sad... very sad !  > 
 >Hi David.< >Care to explain your rants ? Or did you forget the smiley ?G >Goto Servers or Workstations Home Page, then to Alpha Servers or Alpha  >Workstations.H >Sad is only, DS10, DS20e and ES40 are the current workstation offeringsH >(btw. where is the XP900 and XP1000 ?) while servers cover the DS25 and& >ES45 (and even the GS series) also...  E I don't know why the web pages have the arbitrary distinction between C workstations and servers.  If you look at the quickspecs, the newer I systems can also be configured as workstations.  The ES45 even has an AGP  configuration.  J You should send a comment to the webmaster asking for the categories to be) clearer -- or have you already done that?   H AFAIK, XP900 was just another name for the DS10, but it has been droppedE in favor of the newer name.  XP1000 went end-of-life some time ago, I  think.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 09:09:00 -0500 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)* Subject: Re: Finding info on Alpha SystemsL Message-ID: <rdeininger-0401030909010001@user-2ive2o5.dialup.mindspring.com>  J In article <KizR9.232714$qq5.2671407@news.chello.at>, peter@langstoeger.at wrote:    7 >1.) Yes, XP900 is the workstation variant of the DS10. C >Why did they EOL the workstation while still offering the server ?     H >Why do the offer the DS10 (with graphic card) in the workstation page ?G Because it is both Alphaserver DS10 and Alphastation DS10, according to F the Quickspecs.  (DS25 is similar, so the web page _is_ inconsistent.)     >2.) Yes, XP1000 is EOLed.D >Why did they EOL the XP1000 and didn't EOL the DS10 ? The XP1000 is@ >faster (500MHz and 667MHz) than the DS10 (433MHz and 600MHz)...  I Probably because the DS10 is cheaper than the XP1000 was and sells better G than the XP1000 did.  The DS10 architecture and firmware are similar to F the DS20x and ES40 systems.  The DS10 was designed by the same unit ofG DEC/CPQ/HPQ that's still working on Alpha systems now, while the XP1000 H was designed by the workstation group that was disbanded years ago.  TheI XP1000 uses some components that aren't in any other alpha systems, which H may well have become unobtainable sooner.  Likely other reasons that are4 known only the some high-priests of marketing at HP.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 06:07:29 -0800# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> * Subject: RE: Finding info on Alpha Systems9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIGELAGFAA.tom@kednos.com>   ? It is significant that all the low end machines are designated, ; "workgroup" not workstation or desktop or something similar I http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/software/info/refmat/swl_syschart.html      >-----Original Message----- : >From: Robert Deininger [mailto:rdeininger@mindspring.com]) >Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2003 6:09 AM  >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com+ >Subject: Re: Finding info on Alpha Systems  >  > K >In article <KizR9.232714$qq5.2671407@news.chello.at>, peter@langstoeger.at  >wrote:  >  > 8 >>1.) Yes, XP900 is the workstation variant of the DS10.D >>Why did they EOL the workstation while still offering the server ? >  > I >>Why do the offer the DS10 (with graphic card) in the workstation page ? H >Because it is both Alphaserver DS10 and Alphastation DS10, according toG >the Quickspecs.  (DS25 is similar, so the web page _is_ inconsistent.)  >  >  >>2.) Yes, XP1000 is EOLed. E >>Why did they EOL the XP1000 and didn't EOL the DS10 ? The XP1000 is A >>faster (500MHz and 667MHz) than the DS10 (433MHz and 600MHz)...  > J >Probably because the DS10 is cheaper than the XP1000 was and sells betterH >than the XP1000 did.  The DS10 architecture and firmware are similar toG >the DS20x and ES40 systems.  The DS10 was designed by the same unit of H >DEC/CPQ/HPQ that's still working on Alpha systems now, while the XP1000I >was designed by the workstation group that was disbanded years ago.  The J >XP1000 uses some components that aren't in any other alpha systems, whichI >may well have become unobtainable sooner.  Likely other reasons that are 5 >known only the some high-priests of marketing at HP.  >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). B >Version: 6.0.435 / Virus Database: 244 - Release Date: 12/30/2002 >  --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A Version: 6.0.435 / Virus Database: 244 - Release Date: 12/30/2002    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jan 03 05:57:03 +0100 ) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)  Subject: Re: FTP) Message-ID: <F6ZfgMksGsw+@elias.decus.ch>   Z In article <av254k$b2lmf$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>, "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> writes: > : > "Paul Sture" <p_sture@elias.decus.ch> schreef in bericht% > news:zs4+hF41ZMEy@elias.decus.ch... E >> In article <av0ai5$asocj$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>, "Hans Vlems"  > <hvlems@iae.nl> writes:  >> >8 > TCPIP SHOW SERVICES command shows that FTP is stopped. >> > >>A >> Do the log files in sys$sysdevice:<tcpip$ftp> reveal anything?    > Yes, the following text: > K > %DCL-E-NOCMDPROC, error opening captive command procedure - access denied  > 5 > TCPIP$FTP job terminated at 31-DEC-2002 20:43:37.81  >  > Accounting information:  > 4 > Buffered I/O count: 29 Peak working set size: 1648 > 0 > Direct I/O count: 17 Peak virtual size: 167888 > % > Page faults: 129 Mounted volumes: 0  > = > Charged CPU time: 0 00:00:00.03 Elapsed time: 0 00:00:00.11  >   ? I'll assume that  means you have fixed the problem now. If not,  please let us know.    --  
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 19:44:14 +0100" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> Subject: FTP problem solved 5 Message-ID: <av7a22$ck6vd$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>   G Thanks JF for putting me on the right track. The protection of the file D SYS$MANAGER:SYLOGIN.COM was set incorrectly. The protection mask wasK (WERD,WERD,RE,) while it should have been WORLD:RE as well. Pretty obvious, J especially given the error message of the FTP server log file. Well thatss 20/20 hindsight ...    Thank you all for responding,   
 Hans Vlems  K BTW, for an unsupported system the Digital Server 5305 is real _fast_, 4500 H DIO's per sec instead of the 35-40 DIO's per sec on a VAXstation 4000-90   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jan 03 09:21:46 +0100 ) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) K Subject: Re: I just wanted to share a note I sent to the group this morning ) Message-ID: <OwBaXOrWJE+n@elias.decus.ch>   p In article <fraR9.112538$Nz5.2991559@twister.austin.rr.com>, LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie) writes:2 > David J. Dachtera (djesys.nospam@fsi.net) wrote: > : J > : Those who value political correctness should move on to the next post. > : Fair warning.  > : 4 > : Remember when English was our national language? > :  > / > The U.S. has never had an official language.   > 2 > English is the official language of Belize, per: >   >   http://www.belizeretire.com/ >   Belize Retirement Guide  > E Yes, live on only $450 a month. But buy our $49.95 booklet consisting - of a whole 25 pages to find out how to do it.   L For more detailed reading on the place, try http://www.belize.com/index/newsH (where the same book is mentioned at $29.95, or an alternative at a mere $7.50.)   H The idea of telecommuting, at least during the winter months does springL to mind though. Does anyone know where I can get a sand and salt water proof
 keyboard? :-)    --  
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 17:51:19 GMT 1 From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie) K Subject: Re: I just wanted to share a note I sent to the group this morning ; Message-ID: <raFR9.46444$an1.1725006@twister.austin.rr.com>   * Paul Sture (p_sture@elias.decus.ch) wrote: : N : For more detailed reading on the place, try http://www.belize.com/index/newsJ : (where the same book is mentioned at $29.95, or an alternative at a mere	 : $7.50.)  :   * Thanks for the additional link on Belize.   G More and more people from the U.S. will retire offshore to places like  E Belize, Mexico, Costa Rica, especially when the choice comes down to:   C   Eating cat food in the U.S. vs. eating caviar in another country.   > Ajijic, Mexico has a large community of retirees from the U.S.  D : The idea of telecommuting, at least during the winter months does  : spring to mind though.    C With IT jobs being moved overseas, perhaps more IT people will seek ! out a cheaper country to live in:      http://www.escapeartist.com/F   EscapeArtist Home Page: Living Overseas - International Real Estate,I   Overseas Jobs - Expatriate Resources - Tax Exiles - Overseas Retirement   G Several medical transcriptionists report telecommuting from Belize. One G has a home there available for rent when she and her husband have to be  in the States:  '   http://ambergriscaye.com/villadelsol/ J   Villa del Sol at Los Encantos, Belize, San Pedro, Ambergris Caye Lodging  L : Does anyone know where I can get a sand and salt water proof keyboard? :-) :    This one should qualify:  I    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/sci_tech/2000/dot_life/2326077.stm A    BBC NEWS | In Depth | dot life | The keyboard that isn't there     E   "...Canesta, from San Jose in Silicon Valley, has designed what it  K    calls an integrated projection keyboard for mobile and wireless devices. E    Israeli developers demonstrated a similar device at the technology "    fair, CeBIT, earlier this year.  G    Basically it's a keyboard made of light, which heralds an end to the B    days of those working on the move having to lug around numerous
    gadgets...       2 --Jerry Leslie   (my opinions are strictly my own)9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for email    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jan 03 08:02:31 +0100 ) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) ' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use? ) Message-ID: <sfesX5wcMe48@elias.decus.ch>   P In article <3E149CAD.7070205@rdrop.com>, Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com> writes: > Larry Kilgallen wrote:F >>>The obvious answer is "Press the F1 key."  Many PC apps use F1 for G >>>help- my [MS Natural] keyboard even says "Help" under F1 on the key.  >>  E >> I have never known (until your post) of _any_ computer environment E >> where "press the F1 key" was useful.  In fact, unless you mean the H >> PF1 key, the keyboard I use 50% of the time for VMS (from a MacintoshH >> to access remote VMS systems over the Internet) does not _have_ an F1 >> key.  > A > It's a documented Microsoft standard (For what _that's_ worth.)  > P > http://www.microsoft.com/enable/download/products/windows/win98key/w98_kbd.txt% > Microsoft Windows 98 Keyboard Guide  > [snippage] > Keys:   F1H > Action: Displays Help information for the active object or the window 
 > as a whole.  >   C Just for laughs, I tried F1 on the PC at work. First attempt within H LookOut, not particularly focussed on anything, and it gave me a totally+ irrelevant message to do with tables (Uh?).   H Other things such as the desktop or Explorer do launch the help utility.  6 Office gives me the dreaded paperclip - aaaarrrggghhh!  L A real phone conversation from way back when (we were using VT220s or VT320s then):  ( Me:   Helpdesk here, how can I help you?F User: Help blocks my machine. I need to switch it off then on again to?       get it working and ... (insert someone's life story here) ( Me:   What happens if you press CTRL/Q ?K User: Wow, that's brought it back to life, but the help still doesn't work. L Me:   This help key wouldn't happen to say "Hold" beneath the "F1" would it? User: Ooh yes, it does. H Me:   Look at the right of the top row, the key marked "Help" is the one       we use here.- User: Oh thanks ever so much (gush gush etc)     --  
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jan 03 08:42:42 +0100 ) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) ' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use? ) Message-ID: <J6YlnNQoQ5b1@elias.decus.ch>   V In article <2JAN200322145711@gerg.tamu.edu>, carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) writes:< > Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk> writes... > }Bill Gunshannon wrote:  > }  > }> cd /usr/share/man8 > }> find ./man? -exec groff -man {} \;|lpr -PPostscript > }>  ? > }> Not as confusing as the example above, and this one works.  > } 2 > }Still not exactly obvious for the Unix newbie ! > }  > }:-) > }  > }Arne  >  > Or anybody else. > < > How, exactly, would someone who was not an expert go about2 > finding out the the desired command was "groff"? > What does "groff" stand for? >  > "Go Run Outside For Fun"? L > "Get Regular Oxen and Frisk Frequently"? (based loosely on grep's meaning). > "Generate Random Obscurely Formatted Files"?- > "the 'Get Really Obscure Feature' Feature"?  > 7 Serious answer. Tap it into google. The first entry at  , http://www.gnu.org/software/groff/groff.html   gives:  O "The groff (GNU Troff) software is a typesetting package which reads plain text > mixed with formatting commands and produces formatted output."   --  
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jan 03 09:05:00 +0100 ) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) ' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use? ) Message-ID: <cGbEKhmKdDl$@elias.decus.ch>   S In article <v1a70r26ehbef5@corp.supernews.com>, Z  <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> writes: , > Paul Sture <p_sture@elias.decus.ch> wrote:A > : Now your quest is to get out of it - CTRL/C won't let you :-) G > : Answer: Q or E. CTRL/Z does get me back to the command line prompt, 0 > : but with the mysterious message "Suspended". > F > There's nothing mysterious about it.  ^Z forces the current shell toH > the background.  It's very handy, like SPAWN, but w/o all the overhead > of process creation. > 8 > fg will bring your background shell to the foreground.  $ Ah, thanks for solving that mystery. --  
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 12:06:40 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> ' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use? ' Message-ID: <3E1722B0.46E17DFD@fsi.net>    Paul Sture wrote:  > R > In article <3E149CAD.7070205@rdrop.com>, Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com> writes: > > Larry Kilgallen wrote:G > >>>The obvious answer is "Press the F1 key."  Many PC apps use F1 for I > >>>help- my [MS Natural] keyboard even says "Help" under F1 on the key.  > >>G > >> I have never known (until your post) of _any_ computer environment G > >> where "press the F1 key" was useful.  In fact, unless you mean the J > >> PF1 key, the keyboard I use 50% of the time for VMS (from a MacintoshJ > >> to access remote VMS systems over the Internet) does not _have_ an F1	 > >> key.  > > C > > It's a documented Microsoft standard (For what _that's_ worth.)  > > R > > http://www.microsoft.com/enable/download/products/windows/win98key/w98_kbd.txt' > > Microsoft Windows 98 Keyboard Guide  > > [snippage] > > Keys:   F1I > > Action: Displays Help information for the active object or the window  > > as a whole.  > >  > E > Just for laughs, I tried F1 on the PC at work. First attempt within J > LookOut, not particularly focussed on anything, and it gave me a totally- > irrelevant message to do with tables (Uh?).  > J > Other things such as the desktop or Explorer do launch the help utility. > 8 > Office gives me the dreaded paperclip - aaaarrrggghhh! > N > A real phone conversation from way back when (we were using VT220s or VT320s > then): > * > Me:   Helpdesk here, how can I help you?H > User: Help blocks my machine. I need to switch it off then on again toA >       get it working and ... (insert someone's life story here) * > Me:   What happens if you press CTRL/Q ?M > User: Wow, that's brought it back to life, but the help still doesn't work. N > Me:   This help key wouldn't happen to say "Hold" beneath the "F1" would it? > User: Ooh yes, it does. J > Me:   Look at the right of the top row, the key marked "Help" is the one >       we use here.. > User: Oh thanks ever so much (gush gush etc)   Reminds me of:   o The "cup holder" story.   H o The help desk person who got fired for telling a caller to pack up theE computer and return because he was too stupid to have a computer. The E user was calling because the computer wouldn't start (it was during a ! power outage at the user's home).    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 13:43:35 +0100$ From: Michael Unger <unger@decus.de>+ Subject: Re: New Marvel machines? New news? + Message-ID: <00A1977F.BE34EA95.13@decus.de>   0 "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote:  > > In article <3E14B1BB.D664332@pressenter.com>, Lyndon Bartels! <lbartels@pressenter.com> writes: F > > The last I heard, HP was supposed to announce the new EV7 (Marvel) > > machines this month. > >  > >   > > Any new information? Gossip? > I > There was lots at the VMS Symposium in Nashua, but were aren't supposed I > to say.   The parts I heard will not disappoint you, but then again the + > parts I heard did not include pricing :-)   B Prices are available online from the Compaq/HP (Germany) web site," including ES47 and GS1280 systems:  F http://www1.compaq.de/preisliste/pricelist.aspx?category_id=85505.0&ca tegory_name=AlphaServer    (Be aware of line wrapping!)  D The page itself is in German of course but navigation should be easy? since the system names and specifications are in plain English.   F Note: The prices mentioned are for "base" systems excluding options so2 "real" systems may be a bit more expensive ... :-)   (1 Euro = 1 US-$ approximately)    Michael    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jan 2003 07:48:06 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) + Subject: Re: New Marvel machines? New news? 3 Message-ID: <7d0vkPh$I2UB@eisner.encompasserve.org>   R In article <00A1977F.BE34EA95.13@decus.de>, Michael Unger <unger@decus.de> writes:  D > Prices are available online from the Compaq/HP (Germany) web site,$ > including ES47 and GS1280 systems: > H > http://www1.compaq.de/preisliste/pricelist.aspx?category_id=85505.0&ca > tegory_name=AlphaServer   D Thanks for that.  If you meet someone who maintain those pages, giveF them my compliments.  In addition to the typical selection device of aG popup-menu-with-no-GO-button-so-it-does-not-work-from-a-secured-browser D they also offer genuine links to the various lines, which work fine.  F > The page itself is in German of course but navigation should be easyA > since the system names and specifications are in plain English.  > H > Note: The prices mentioned are for "base" systems excluding options so4 > "real" systems may be a bit more expensive ... :-)  A But since they specify VMS or Unix, clearly they must include the  respective software licenses.   ! > (1 Euro = 1 US-$ approximately)   H Certainly within the margin of error acceptable given my onhand cash :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 18:30:01 +0100 6 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>Y Subject: Re: Search list logical name translation for JAVA$CLASSPATH using VMS Java 1.3.1 ) Message-ID: <3E171A19.9000205@vajhoej.dk>    Robert C. Sass wrote: = > We want to use the search list feature for VMS logical name < > translation plus avoid the 255 character limit thus we use& > java$classpath instead of classpath. ... G > I tried setting the JAVA$ENABLE_ENVIRONMENT_EXPANSION logical and use C > the -cp switch as shown in the release notes but that didn't work H > either. If java$classpath defines all of the jar files explicitly, not; > using any search lists, then the java command works fine.  > E > Has anyone also encountered this? Any suggestions for a solution or D > workaround? Why did they do it "VMS right" for jar & javah but not > java?    Why make it so complex ?   Run the program with: E    java -classpath full-name-for-jar-1:full-name-for-jar-2 main-class  or:     java "-V" app.dat where app.dat contains: @    -classpath full-name-for-jar-1:full-name-for-jar-2 main-class if the command gets too long !  ? The jar and javah commands should not need that long classpath.    Arne   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 17:41:44 GMT % From: "Ram Guy" <ramguy9@hotmail.com> ' Subject: Unable to access Telnet or FTP & Message-ID: <s1FR9.4910$j5.60587@news>  I I am trying to network my VMS Hobbyist ( 7.2 )  system to talk to Windows G systems, but I am unable to even ping the system. I am able to ping thee localhost from the VMS box.?  L Does anyone know if the Hobbyist system allows networking? IF so, how can we accomplish this?   Thanks for your help.d   Ramo   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 17:53:37 GMTo7 From: brad@.homeportal.2wire.net (Bradford J. Hamilton) + Subject: Re: Unable to access Telnet or FTP - Message-ID: <BcFR9.626714$QZ.92283@sccrnsc02>t  N In article <s1FR9.4910$j5.60587@news>, "Ram Guy" <ramguy9@hotmail.com> writes:J >I am trying to network my VMS Hobbyist ( 7.2 )  system to talk to WindowsH >systems, but I am unable to even ping the system. I am able to ping the >localhost from the VMS box. >?M >Does anyone know if the Hobbyist system allows networking? IF so, how can wef >accomplish this?s   Hi Guy,a  L We'll need more details regarding your network stack, and your network setup (DHCP, firewall, etc.)  N I was able to get my hobbyist system going on my home network, but I needed toK use a TCP/IP stack other than the one distributed on the hobbyist CD, whichr does not have support for DHCP.   N The good folks at process.com ( http://www.process.com/openvms/hobbyist.html )N allow for hobbyist use of their two TCP/IP stacks (Multinet and TCPware), both of which have support for DHCP.c  N Please provide some more information, and we should be able to help get you up and running on your network.   >i >Thanks for your help. >e >Ram >- >I   Thanks,p  A _________________________________________________________________t0 Bradford J. Hamilton			"All opinions are my own"/ bMradAhamiPltSon@atMtAbi.cPoSm		"Lose the MAPS"    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 12:21:02 -0600.1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> + Subject: Re: Unable to access Telnet or FTP ' Message-ID: <3E17260E.62030B31@fsi.net>    Ram Guy wrote: > K > I am trying to network my VMS Hobbyist ( 7.2 )  system to talk to Windows]I > systems, but I am unable to even ping the system. I am able to ping the- > localhost from the VMS box.- > N > Does anyone know if the Hobbyist system allows networking? IF so, how can we > accomplish this?  + VMS is VMS. There is no "Hobbyist version".P  E If you have a TCP/IP stack on your VMS system properly configured anduE properly connected to the same network as your Wintel box, everythingdF should work fine. (As used here, "network" refers to both the hardware) and the software (subnets, VLANs, etc.).)r  8 Check your addresses, subnet masks, default routes, etc.  G Note also that TCP/IP in VMS is an add-on. It is not installed with theaD base system, though the current distributions do provide that TCP/IP? Services for OpenVMS can be installed at the same time as VMS.    ; TCP/IP must still be configured once VMS is up and running.i  D Two third-party stacks are also available: TCPware and Multinet from Process Software.    -- w David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/o   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 18:34:25 GMT 1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> + Subject: Re: Unable to access Telnet or FTPi2 Message-ID: <3E172910.1D9733BE@firstdbasource.com>   Ram Guy wrote: > K > I am trying to network my VMS Hobbyist ( 7.2 )  system to talk to Windows I > systems, but I am unable to even ping the system. I am able to ping thep > localhost from the VMS box.R > N > Does anyone know if the Hobbyist system allows networking? IF so, how can we > accomplish this? >  > Thanks for your help.l >  > Ramp  G I prefer to NOT use DHCP for anything on my home network... including 2 ) A2100, Linux, and 3 versions of Winblows.r   -- . Regards,  6 Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 19847 First DBA Source, Inc.    Registered Linux User #261163t   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 09:42:59 GMTe4 From: Brian Inglis <Brian.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca>& Subject: Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth8 Message-ID: <98ad1vkbj0c73gph4vgfhileoqeu74knaa@4ax.com>  = On Fri, 3 Jan 2003 21:49:21 +0000, cbh@ieya.co.REMOVE_THIS.uk  (Chris Hedley) wrote:   B >According to Rupert Pigott <darkboo-remove-this-ng.@hotmail.com>: >s5 >> Hint : I want war stories about 6K's blowing up :)s > L >Apparently the 8000s had cornered the market in that sort of behaviour.  :)B >(I don't think that any of the VAX systems had much in the way ofF >notoriety for hardware failures, though; whether or not one likes theI >architecture [why did I nearly write "artichoketure"?] I think that most) >will agree that they were pretty rugged)w  ? VAX 8?50 consoles also had the nasty habit of not rebooting thet? system reliably when requested -- I used to do a lot of dial in0: remote reboots to apply changes from home outside hours --< PDP-11s, other VAXes, SUNs, IBM 3090 and 4300 running VM and= VTAM, (maybe even MVS, although those systems normally had 247> hour staff, so I may not have needed to reboot remotely: can't@ even remember now if it was possible) -- and 8?50s were the only? machines from any vendor where I had to be present to ensure ita? came up -- I may have eventually debugged and fixed the consolef= restart problems: were those consoles PRO-350s running RT, ortA some kind of PC running something like RT? -- was only around forg> about six months to get those systems set up and robust before	 moving on-  9 Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis 	Calgary, Alberta, Canadaa -- vF Brian.Inglis@CSi.com 	(Brian dot Inglis at SystematicSw dot ab dot ca),     fake address		use address above to reply@ abuse@aol.com tosspam@aol.com abuse@att.com abuse@earthlink.com ? abuse@hotmail.com abuse@mci.com abuse@msn.com abuse@sprint.com eB abuse@yahoo.com abuse@cadvision.com abuse@shaw.ca abuse@telus.com - abuse@ibsystems.com uce@ftc.gov				spam traps    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 11:54:21 +0100 6 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>& Subject: Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth) Message-ID: <3E16BD5D.2010007@vajhoej.dk>s   Chris Hedley wrote:nC > (I don't think that any of the VAX systems had much in the way of G > notoriety for hardware failures, though; whether or not one likes theiJ > architecture [why did I nearly write "artichoketure"?] I think that most* > will agree that they were pretty rugged)  . True, but some series were better than others.  ? I am pretty sure that from a reliability & hardware maintenancef9 point of view the 6000 series gave much less trouble thane> the various 8000 models and the 9000 series (the 9000 and 60009 series came out at the same time and while the 9000's wasa< soon gone the 6000's were kept for a decade in many places).   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 11:56:18 +0100e6 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>& Subject: Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth' Message-ID: <3E16BDD2.20801@vajhoej.dk>    Zane H. Healy wrote:I > The only 'notoriety' for hardware failures that I can think of would betN > related to disk drives.  Consider how infamous the RD53 is, and I believe atH > least one model of the RA8x is noted for problem with the drive heads. > N > Now the VAXen themselves, even the ones that suffer from problematic drives, > are pretty much rock solid.m  4 I am pretty sure you are thinking about the RA81's !  @ But they were older than the 6000 series. RA81's and RA82's were9 used by the various 8000 systems. 6000 series used RA92'sa (and probably other RA9x's).   Arne   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 13:58:30 +0000/ From: cbh@ieya.co.REMOVE_THIS.uk (Chris Hedley)t& Subject: Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth( Message-ID: <6ap6va.2o.ln@teabag.cbhnet>  , According to Arne Vajhj  <arne@vajhoej.dk>:0 > True, but some series were better than others.  I It seems that the 6000 is regarded as being the best of the bunch AFAICT;lD of the smaller ones, I quite liked the assorted 4000s although there probably wasn't a lot in it.  A > I am pretty sure that from a reliability & hardware maintenance.; > point of view the 6000 series gave much less trouble thans@ > the various 8000 models and the 9000 series (the 9000 and 6000; > series came out at the same time and while the 9000's wasp> > soon gone the 6000's were kept for a decade in many places).  I I'm still not entirely sure what the story was behind the 9000s; it seems G that everybody takes in a sharp intake of breath through clenched teethiI when talking about them and there're dark allusions to unreliability, but G I'm still vague as to what was the problem.  If anything, it seems that E they were targeted wrongly by describing them as mainframes and found1G themselves in the unenviable position of competing head-on with the VAXlE 6000s which offered nearly as good performance for a much lower pricetF (both outset and maintenance)  I think we've covered the water-vs-air-= cooling thing before and the conclusion was inconclusive.  :)    Chris. --  O "If the world was an orange it would be like much too small, y'know?" Neil, '84e7   Currently playing: Sing-Sing - "The Joy Of Sing-Sing"AN   http://www.chrishedley.com  My stuff, including genealogy, other things, etc   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 12:02:04 -0600e1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>e& Subject: Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth' Message-ID: <3E17219C.D662ED35@fsi.net>    Arne Vajhj wrote: >  > Zane H. Healy wrote:K > > The only 'notoriety' for hardware failures that I can think of would be0P > > related to disk drives.  Consider how infamous the RD53 is, and I believe atJ > > least one model of the RA8x is noted for problem with the drive heads. > >-P > > Now the VAXen themselves, even the ones that suffer from problematic drives, > > are pretty much rock solid.u > 6 > I am pretty sure you are thinking about the RA81's ! > B > But they were older than the 6000 series. RA81's and RA82's were; > used by the various 8000 systems. 6000 series used RA92'si > (and probably other RA9x's).  E We had RA81's with PDP-11/70 and VAX 11/750s back in the early '80's,  '82 to '84 timeframe.   > In the mid- to late-80's, I had a MicroVAX-II Q5 with an RA81.  H In the late 80's, I had number of RA81's on a VAX 8350 cluster, and keptG them when that went to a stand-alone VAX 6000-410. We upgraded those to>D RA92's when we needed more capacity, and upgraded the entire storage? subsystem to DSSI when we got pressed for through-put. The DSSI H conversion improved performance so much it almost stopped a -410 to -6108 upgrade, except that we needed to up the memory as well.   -- i David J. Dachteras dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/t   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 07:05:04 GMTg/ From: "James Wilkinson" <elementyl@hotmail.com>fI Subject: Re: VERY ON-TOPIC:  quoted-printable shit and Mickey$chlock maila6 Message-ID: <AIvR9.2$JU6.1@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com>  5 "Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspring.com> wrote:pH > Is this Outhouse, or Outhouse Express?  What version?  I have seen oneJ > or two Outhouse Express installations that can send plain text.  Alas, I > have to use plain Outhouse.   I OE6.  The original question was with regard to any MS client.  I've neverj had any reason to use Outlook.   Jamese   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 07:05:47 GMT>/ From: "James Wilkinson" <elementyl@hotmail.com>lI Subject: Re: VERY ON-TOPIC:  quoted-printable shit and Mickey$chlock maile6 Message-ID: <fJvR9.3$fW6.0@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com>  4 From: "Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspring.com>G > That doesn't work on the version of Outhouse that's been inflicted onvE > me,  nor on any other version that I've heard about.  The menu saysrD > "plain text", but outhouse actually encodes the message as "quoted
 > printable".l  I Well, I just tried what I had handly, Outlook 97.  Plain text, not quoteds
 printable.  > > HP has lots of VMS systems that can send mail to the outside > world.  J And I'm sure they have lots that don't, including perhaps some machines in engineering that generate PAKs.w   Jamesk   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jan 03 08:30:46 +0100y) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)sI Subject: Re: VERY ON-TOPIC:  quoted-printable shit and Mickey$chlock mailo) Message-ID: <nr4kn+NJ9jtN@elias.decus.ch>   U In article <00A19622.55A7CDC0@SendSpamHere.ORG>,   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:tn > In article <2JAN03.22513963@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>, karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher) writes:: >>In a previous article, VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:J >>->Is there anyway to configure Mickey$chlock mail programs to include or >>->send text as plain/text? >>->  K >>->I'm trying to get PAKs from DEComHPaq and all I get is printed-quotable K >>->shit which is a royal pain in the arse to edit to create a "normal" PAK K >>->procedure.  This wouldn't be a problem if DEComHPaq would shun the evild& >>->empire and use their own products. >>; >>In addition to changing the sender's behavior how about: c >>
 >>$ HELP MIMEt >>0 >>It will extract a quoted-printable attachment. > 
 > $ HELP MIMEa > # >   Sorry, no documentation on MIMEi+ >                                           3 > You're assuming very recent versions of VMS here.P >   ; Would the MUNPACK utility on the VMS Freeware V4 CD 1 help?6% (It's in directory <LEDERMAN.MPACK> ).  = Caveat - I haven't tried it myself, although I've seen othersd4 here recommend it in preference to the MIME utility.   -- n
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 12:27:07 +0100E9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>tI Subject: Re: VERY ON-TOPIC:  quoted-printable shit and Mickey$chlock maila' Message-ID: <3E16C50B.D115333F@aaa.com>t   Paul Sture wrote:a >  > = > Would the MUNPACK utility on the VMS Freeware V4 CD 1 help? ' > (It's in directory <LEDERMAN.MPACK> )m > ? > Caveat - I haven't tried it myself, although I've seen others 6 > here recommend it in preference to the MIME utility. >   6 Correct, MIME is an interactive tool and quite hard to9 use in Batch. MPACK/MUNPACK works just fine in batch withm command line parameters.  D To "unpack" an attachements, it's just to EXTRACT the mail from mailB and "MUNPACK <the-mail-file>, or use DELIVER to automate the whole process.   Jan-Erik Sderholm.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 13:34:59 +0100:2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)I Subject: Re: VERY ON-TOPIC:  quoted-printable shit and Mickey$chlock mailo; Message-ID: <3e16d4f3.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>0  * Paul Sture (p_sture@elias.decus.ch) wrote: > VAXman- writes: : > > karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher) writes: > >> VAXman- wrote:aL > >>> Is there anyway to configure Mickey$chlock mail programs to include or > >>> send text as plain/text? > >>> M > >>> I'm trying to get PAKs from DEComHPaq and all I get is printed-quotable M > >>> shit which is a royal pain in the arse to edit to create a "normal" PAK M > >>> procedure.  This wouldn't be a problem if DEComHPaq would shun the evile( > >>> empire and use their own products. > >>> > >> In addition to changing the sender's behavior how about:  > >> > >> $ HELP MIME > >>3 > >> It will extract a quoted-printable attachment.T > >  > > $ HELP MIMEd > > % > >   Sorry, no documentation on MIME - > >                                          t5 > > You're assuming very recent versions of VMS here.s >w= > Would the MUNPACK utility on the VMS Freeware V4 CD 1 help? ' > (It's in directory <LEDERMAN.MPACK> )s  F Nope. MUNPACK unpacks binary attachments primarily. If there is a textJ section as well, it will unpack it also. But not as the only MIME section.  @ That said, I'm not sure whether it will decode quoted-printable.   cu,    Martin --  B                         | Martin Vorlaender | VMS & WNT programmer1  OpenVMS: Where do you  | work: mv@pdv-systeme.de D  want to BE today?      |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/8                         | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jan 2003 07:37:08 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)3I Subject: Re: VERY ON-TOPIC:  quoted-printable shit and Mickey$chlock mailF3 Message-ID: <kI7VNRdTBCrZ@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  h In article <fJvR9.3$fW6.0@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com>, "James Wilkinson" <elementyl@hotmail.com> writes:6 > From: "Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspring.com>H >> That doesn't work on the version of Outhouse that's been inflicted onF >> me,  nor on any other version that I've heard about.  The menu saysE >> "plain text", but outhouse actually encodes the message as "quotedi >> printable". > K > Well, I just tried what I had handly, Outlook 97.  Plain text, not quotedC > printable.  C Thanks for all this discussion folks.  I just sent the instructions A to a non-computer social friend who was having trouble sending men something readable.  It worked.P  ? >> HP has lots of VMS systems that can send mail to the outside 	 >> world.8 > L > And I'm sure they have lots that don't, including perhaps some machines in! > engineering that generate PAKs.   G I think the point is that these are not VMS systems that were purchasedlH by HP years ago.  The process of generating DSPP PAKs is the same as theH process of generating CSA PAKs, which always used to come in plain text.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 14:27:56 GMT3" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORGI Subject: Re: VERY ON-TOPIC:  quoted-printable shit and Mickey$chlock mailY0 Message-ID: <00A1975C.0B60407C@SendSpamHere.ORG>  U In article <nr4kn+NJ9jtN@elias.decus.ch>, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) writes:iV >In article <00A19622.55A7CDC0@SendSpamHere.ORG>,   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:o >> In article <2JAN03.22513963@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>, karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher) writes:e; >>>In a previous article, VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:rK >>>->Is there anyway to configure Mickey$chlock mail programs to include or  >>>->send text as plain/text?r >>>-> L >>>->I'm trying to get PAKs from DEComHPaq and all I get is printed-quotableL >>>->shit which is a royal pain in the arse to edit to create a "normal" PAKL >>>->procedure.  This wouldn't be a problem if DEComHPaq would shun the evil' >>>->empire and use their own products.c >>> < >>>In addition to changing the sender's behavior how about:  >>>  >>>$ HELP MIME >>>v1 >>>It will extract a quoted-printable attachment.  >> e >> $ HELP MIME >>  $ >>   Sorry, no documentation on MIME, >>                                          4 >> You're assuming very recent versions of VMS here. >>   > < >Would the MUNPACK utility on the VMS Freeware V4 CD 1 help?& >(It's in directory <LEDERMAN.MPACK> ) >u> >Caveat - I haven't tried it myself, although I've seen others5 >here recommend it in preference to the MIME utility.   G My point is why should I have to go through all sorts of anal gyrations$G to read plain text that should and could easily be transmitted in plain,G text?  Just because the shithead in Redmond wants to force everybody ton+ his shit is no reason for me to oblige him.p     --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM             05   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" R   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 13:02:49 -0400t0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>I Subject: Re: VERY ON-TOPIC:  quoted-printable shit and Mickey$chlock mailr/ Message-ID: <3E1713B9.F35AA6C7@vl.videotron.ca>e   Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:n8 > Correct, MIME is an interactive tool and quite hard to; > use in Batch. MPACK/MUNPACK works just fine in batch witha > command line parameters.  M I've been able to use MIME from inside ALL-IN-1. A1 generates a file with theeK RFC822 headers, then invokes MIME in a subprocess whose input is a mailbox,cN and feeds it the commands that are needed to extract the desired attachements.  E But i agree that MIME is not of the quality one would expect from VMSn8 engineers. Why must it clear the screen when it starts ?   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 10:28:34 -0500. From: "Douglas H. Quebbeman" <dougq@iglou.com>( Subject: Who Has PC164 SRM Console v5.6?) Message-ID: <3e16fda3$1_3@news.iglou.com>t   Hello,  2 the subject says it all, except I should add, that# the version persented on this page:e  E http://ftp.digital.com/pub/DEC/Alpha/firmware/archive/alphapc164.html   0 if not v5.6, as is implied by the documentation, but is instead v5.5-1.  2 So, does anyone actually have a copy of v5.6? I've2 seen references to v5.6-3, so *somebody* must have it...i   tia, -doug quebbemana   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 14:41:39 +0100$ From: Michael Unger <unger@decus.de>3 Subject: Re: [OpenVMS IPF] Boot Contest - I lost.../* Message-ID: <00A19787.DAC0E936.5@decus.de>  1 "Peter LANGSTOEGER" <peter@langstoeger.at> wrote:t  ; > In article <00A19613.152D8ECB.11@decus.de>, Michael Ungerc <unger@decus.de> writes:4 > >"Peter LANGSTOEGER" <peter@langstoeger.at> wrote: > >d > >> Happy New Year. > >>K > >> Sad is, that I expected the OpenVMS IPF port will see a VMS first bootcF > >> in December 2002. Alas, it seems, I lost. Who won the prize now ? > >tN > >Apparently the contest is still running. So there is noone who won a prize. >r > Are you sure ?  C Sure? No. But "OpenVMS boot contest" is still the first item listedaF under "OpenVMS information" in the navigation bar at the lefthand side. of the page and the contest page is available.  E > The OpenVMS Boot Contest Registration Form had a date of 2002 only,4  - I have to admit I didn't look at the details.5  - > so why could the contest still be running ?eM > Do you expect another year 2002 will come some time in the future ? (eg. DoyO > you expect the eg. islamic calendar will be the major calendar for HP then ?)   C There have been a lot of decisions at DEC/Compaq/HP during the pastmD years a lot of us do not understand -- so at least this doesn't seem to be impossible ...   > Just curious   Michaele   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jan 03 08:15:19 +0100 ) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)a4 Subject: Re: [OT] Lotteries (was Re: Happy New Year)) Message-ID: <wGh3OhUIMhMX@elias.decus.ch>p  P In article <3E14AC1F.7050204@rdrop.com>, Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com> writes: > Sue Skonetski wrote:C >  > Thank you for your kind thoughts but just so you know I do notoG >  > play/gamble with the lottery tickets.  I sit with the engineers atuG >  > lunch and none of them play either.  They told me that the odds ofr0 >  > winning are the same as not playing at all. > - > ROTFL!  Sue neatly defines an engineer. ;-)  > F >  > Since I am not a technical person I do not really understand that >  > logic but I trust them. > G > The engineers are right- the odds of winning are vastly against you- (F > close enough to zero that it can be discounted.  OTOH, if you play, B > they're also immeasurably better than if you don't play at all- F > because if you don't buy any tickets, then you obviously will never  > buy the winning one. >sD When the UK lottery was started (1994 IIRC), the odds were somethingG like 14 million to one. A radio programme at the time reckoned you werey1 stood substantially better chances with roulette.i  oI > Myself, I believe the lottery is a tax for people who don't understand o? > math, offset slightly by the entertainment value it provides.t > B I know a lot of people play it for that faint chance that it lifts> them out of a life of poverty. It is IMNSHO a tax on the poor.  H > Final thought- I believe a fair number of lottery systems run on VMS- : > or used to.  Buy a ticket, support your favorite OS. ;-) > A Indeed. Richard Branson tried bidding for the UK contract when it5G last came for for renewal, proposing M$ systems as a replacement, would  you believe.  H Fortunately for VMS, he lost that bid, but had he won, I'm sure it wouldI have provided plenty of entertainment for those of us who know better :-)    -- i
 Paul Sture Switzerlandr   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 10:57:05 +0000  From: Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net>h4 Subject: Re: [OT] Lotteries (was Re: Happy New Year)) Message-ID: <3E16BE03.9C958223@Omond.net>o   Paul Sture wrote:    > [...snip...]F > When the UK lottery was started (1994 IIRC), the odds were somethingI > like 14 million to one. A radio programme at the time reckoned you were 3 > stood substantially better chances with roulette.r >aJ > > Myself, I believe the lottery is a tax for people who don't understandA > > math, offset slightly by the entertainment value it provides.i > >cD > I know a lot of people play it for that faint chance that it lifts@ > them out of a life of poverty. It is IMNSHO a tax on the poor. >-I > > Final thought- I believe a fair number of lottery systems run on VMS-.< > > or used to.  Buy a ticket, support your favorite OS. ;-) > >eC > Indeed. Richard Branson tried bidding for the UK contract when it5I > last came for for renewal, proposing M$ systems as a replacement, would_ > you believe. >hJ > Fortunately for VMS, he lost that bid, but had he won, I'm sure it wouldK > have provided plenty of entertainment for those of us who know better :-)   F Well, if he'd won the bid, you could say the Lottery would have become a bit of a lottery :-)  @ Actually, as far as I remember, Camelot (the company running the? UK Lottery) uses VAX 6000 systems, one cluster in RickmansworthwD and one cluster in Bootle.  Anyone have any more exact information ?  	 Roy Omondy Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 15:01:43 +0100 6 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>4 Subject: Re: [OT] Lotteries (was Re: Happy New Year)) Message-ID: <3E16E947.8000808@vajhoej.dk>t   Roy Omond wrote:B > Actually, as far as I remember, Camelot (the company running theA > UK Lottery) uses VAX 6000 systems, one cluster in RickmansworthoF > and one cluster in Bootle.  Anyone have any more exact information ?  - Alpha not VAX (but it may very well have been  VAX 6000 when they started).   Not cluster.   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 15:14:03 +0100s6 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>4 Subject: Re: [OT] Lotteries (was Re: Happy New Year)) Message-ID: <3E16EC2B.2040000@vajhoej.dk>t   Jack Peacock wrote:h2 > "Arne Vajhj" <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote in message% > news:3E15E818.5090200@vajhoej.dk...o >>Dean Woodward wrote:= >>1)  Most lotteries pay out approx. half the sale as prizes.8  H > In private enterprise (i.e. Nevada casinos) the maximum hold is by lawN > around 23% but nearly always under 10% due to competitive pressure.  Payouts; > average 90% of wagers...50% would be considered criminal.   9 The casino business and the lottery business are two veryi different businesses.t  7 Lotterys have millions of customers. Casinos has fewer.w  < Lottery players only play for a few dollars. Casinos players play for a lot more.  < Lottery players only play a few times a week. Casino players play for hours.   = Casinos are a competitive business. Lotteries are monopolies.s  9 Casino profit goes to owners. Lottery profit goes to goodl causes.   	 Etc.etc..o  D >>2)  Normally the profits from lotteries are used by the government; >>     for education and other services for children/young.  > K > Admirable, that's why we all pay taxes.  The profits from govt. lotteriesbI > free up general revenue for the vote buying slushpile.  How many statessL > include govt-run lottery revenues as part of their estimated tax base now?L > In Nevada it's zero...government lotteries are illegal here, banned by the > state constitution.k  . Different states in the US has different laws.  ? In some states they have a state lottery but no casinos. Exceptd on indian territory.  ( Some states do not have a state lottery.  : Nevada apperently has no state lottery but allows casinos.  ? Most countries outside the US both have a government authorizeda lottery and allow casinos.  < Lotteries in the US are now allowed to offer sports betting.  < Most european lotteries are allowed offering sports betting.  8 By federal law in the US gaming over the internet is not allowed.  : Most european countries allow their lotteries to be on the	 internet.M  B Australia does not allow its own citizens to play on the internet,? but do allow foreigners to play over the internet at australiant sites.  # Different rules all over the world.B  8 And at least in all the countries I have mentioned rules; made by law by a democraticly elected government/parliment.a   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 15:23:16 +0100o6 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>4 Subject: Re: [OT] Lotteries (was Re: Happy New Year)) Message-ID: <3E16EE54.6040504@vajhoej.dk>    Paul Sture wrote:nF > When the UK lottery was started (1994 IIRC), the odds were somethingI > like 14 million to one. A radio programme at the time reckoned you weree3 > stood substantially better chances with roulette.l   And ?   > The probablity of winning the first division in lotto games is4 only determined by the game matrix (x of y numbers).   The math is simple:i&    lower probablity => bigger winnings'    higer probablity => smaller winningsx  6 And this is an area where the lottery/government wants7 to  choose the game matrix exactly as the players want,e3 because then sale becomes bigger and they make more0 money.  5 The game matrix is often a heated topic. But it is my 0 impression that the trend today is towards lower! probablities and bigger winnings.m   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 13:20:40 -0400d0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>4 Subject: Re: [OT] Lotteries (was Re: Happy New Year)/ Message-ID: <3E1717E6.31584B53@vl.videotron.ca>d   Arne Vajhj wrote:7 > The game matrix is often a heated topic. But it is my 2 > impression that the trend today is towards lower# > probablities and bigger winnings.t  D In Qubec, the lottery corporation has, on its web site, the variousH probabilities of winning for each of its lottery products (it has many).  0 Interttestingly, it sells two similar lotteries:   6-49 which is sold nationally.' Quebec-49 which is sold in Qubec only.   K 6-49 costs $1.00 each (6 numbers between 1-49) but yields a variable numberh0 that rises each week if nobody wins the jackpot.  I Qubec-49 costs $0.50 each and yields fixed numbers with an un-impressivec maximum of $1 million. x  K The odds of winning anything are the same. However, with Qubec-49, because K for the same amount of money, you can buy twice the number of tickets, youreN odds of winning are more than doubled. Yet, most people go for 6-49 because of) the larger jackpot and more advertising. _  N Super-7 ( 7 digits 1-47) is interesting. It has those huge jackpots that grow.N And your odds or winning anything are higher than the 6-49. (3 digits out of 7M instead of 3 out of 6), but you win only a free ticket, whereas with the 6-49l2 you win money ($5 for Qubec 49 and $10 for 6-49).  N So the "data" that shows that Super-7 offer better odds is somewhat misleading- since you just win a free ticket (worthless).i   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.008 ************************er. If java$classpath defines all of the jar files explicitly, not; > using any search lists, then the java command works fine.  > E > Has anyone also encountered this? Any suggestions for a solution or D > workaround? Why did they do it "VMS right" for jar & javah but not > java?    Why make it so complexԪ    Ԫ    Ԫ    Ԫ    Ԫ    Ԫ    Ԫ    Ԫ    Ԫ    Ԫ    Ԫ    Ԫ    Ԫ    Ԫ    Ԫ    Ԫ    Ԫ    Ԫ    Ԫ    Ԫ    Ԫ    Ԫ    Ԫ    Ԫ    Ԫ    Ԫ    Ԫ    Ԫ    Ԫ    Ԫ    Ԫ    Ԫ    Ԫ    Ԫ    Ԫ    Ԫ    Ԫ    Ԫ    Ԫ    Ԫ    Ԫ    Ԫ    Ԫ    Ԫ    Ԫ    Ԫ    Ԫ    Ԫ    Ԫ    Ԫ    Ԫ    Ԫ    Ԫ    Ԫ    Ԫ    Ԫ    Ԫ    Ԫ    Ԫ    Ԫ    Ԫ    Ԫ    Ԫ    Ԫ    