/ INFO-VAX	Sun, 05 Jan 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 9       Contents:- Re: BASIC and "pass by value"  --> (argument) - Re: BASIC and "pass by value"  --> (argument) ' Re: F$GETDVI ("AVL") in an IF statement  FA: DEC 1986 Employee HandbookB Re: I just wanted to share a note I sent to the group this morningB Re: I just wanted to share a note I sent to the group this morning Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use?" Re: New Marvel machines? New news?" Re: New Marvel machines? New news?2 Re: SAN recommendations mixing VMS, Solaris, Linux2 Re: SAN recommendations mixing VMS, Solaris, Linux2 Re: SAN recommendations mixing VMS, Solaris, Linux" Re: Unable to access Telnet or FTP" Re: Unable to access Telnet or FTP" Re: Unable to access Telnet or FTP" Re: Unable to access Telnet or FTP" Re: Unable to access Telnet or FTP" Re: Unable to access Telnet or FTP" Re: Unable to access Telnet or FTP" Re: Unable to access Telnet or FTP Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth  Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth  Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth ! VMS in Vegas (Was [OT] Lotteries) % Re: VMS in Vegas (Was [OT] Lotteries) % Re: VMS in Vegas (Was [OT] Lotteries) % RE: VMS in Vegas (Was [OT] Lotteries) % Re: VMS in Vegas (Was [OT] Lotteries) % Re: VMS in Vegas (Was [OT] Lotteries) 4 Re: wallpaper for the "normal" DECWindows interface? XV picture editor thoughts Re: XV picture editor thoughts+ Re: [OT] Lotteries (was Re: Happy New Year)   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 11:04:51 -08002 From: "Randy Park" <rjpark@mindspring.nospaam.com>6 Subject: Re: BASIC and "pass by value"  --> (argument)2 Message-ID: <av7b91$nld$1@slb3.atl.mindspring.net>   > = > It has been a few years since I've done much programming in 1 > BASIC, but I think I still remember the answer.  > ; > It's my understanding that to get data passed or received B > by value, you must use the BY VALUE clause.  Placing parenthesis@ > around an argument makes a copy of the argument before passingC > it to the subroutine.  Passing an argument BY VALUE and receiving = > it BY REFERENCE is something you probably don't want to do. C > Remember, integers are passed and received BY REFERENCE in BASIC,  > unless specified otherwise.  >   9 I addition, because you are in an AST I would replace the < PRINT statments with a call to LIB$PUT_OUTPUT.  I would also& add the following line to the program:     OPTION SETUP = INACTIVE 9 This will greatly speed of the AST processing, with a few 
 restrictions.    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 04:48:51 GMT  From: danco@ns2.pebble.org6 Subject: Re: BASIC and "pass by value"  --> (argument)1 Message-ID: <slrnb1fhln.2gq.danco@ns2.pebble.org>   K In article <20030103135241798-0600@news.telocity.com>, Craig A Berry wrote:   K > What's a "banna"?  To pass by value, use the clearly documented BY VALUE  
 > clause; see   ? I think that means parenthesis.  In VAX/DEC/Compaq BASIC puting A parenthesis around a parameter when calling a function will cause ? a COPY of the variable to be passed, not the real variable.  So A if the called function modifies the copy, so what, it'll just end  up in the bit bucket anyway,   - Dan    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jan 2003 12:13:26 -0800 . From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)0 Subject: Re: F$GETDVI ("AVL") in an IF statement= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0301041213.67d81c7b@posting.google.com>   ` "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3E16340F.65A9E9DB@fsi.net>... > JF Mezei wrote:  > > Q > > Is  BG0: mounted ? Yes, or No. If BG0: doesn't exist, then it is stll correct $ > > to state that it is not mounted.  F It's also correct to state that there is no such device on the system, which is what VMS does.   G > I can simulate a situation here. I have an AS200 connected to a BA350 H > shelf. I can take any mounted disk and extract it from the shelf whileI > the system is running (don't try this at home!). Now, we have a mounted . > device that has a DCB, yet no longer exists. > $ > Is it available? VMS thinks it is. > H > Is it MOUNTed? VMS think it was, but is now in MntVerify and will soon > be in MntVfyTimeout. > C > Does it exist? In VMS's dreams. It may be here in my lap, but ...   E Well, it exists in your lap. And it is availble for you to slide back : into the system. So I guess it's available and exists! ;-)  M > > Mounted and available should behave as EXIST in the case where the device # > > doesn't exist. Just my opinion.  > E > What should the o.s. report about other non-existant items? ...like 8 > memory that does not exist in the system, for example? > E > Should DELETE of a non-existant file act like DELETE/SINCE where no % > files match the selection criteria?   E Good point. Also, what about a DIRECTORY of a file-spec that contains C a non-existent device, a non-existent directory, or both? Should it F say "%DIRECT-W-NOFILES, no files found"? I don't think so, even though that would be correct.  J > Do I need protection from the radiation of the neighboring star that our > sun doesn't have?   C No, but do you wear seat belts in your car to protect yourself from - the accident that won't happen? I bet you do.   H > Where do we stop making brash assumptions and begin to report reality?  E Well, it seems to me that both methods report reality. JF prefers not C to be bothered with non-existence as a reason for non-availability. E You and I prefer the "logical consistency" of what VMS actually does.    Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 18:48:32 -05003 From: "Homer J. Simpson" <hsimpson@burnsenergy.com> ' Subject: FA: DEC 1986 Employee Handbook 3 Message-ID: <djKR9.6449$yN1.462@news.bellsouth.net>   4 Employee life, Olsen philosophy, in the Glory Years!I http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=208&item=753057302    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 12:11:08 -0800 " From: GreyCloud <cumulus@mist.com>K Subject: Re: I just wanted to share a note I sent to the group this morning ( Message-ID: <3E173FDC.184195DD@mist.com>   Jerry Leslie wrote:  > , > Paul Sture (p_sture@elias.decus.ch) wrote: > : P > : For more detailed reading on the place, try http://www.belize.com/index/newsL > : (where the same book is mentioned at $29.95, or an alternative at a mere > : $7.50.)  > :  > + > Thanks for the additional link on Belize.  > H > More and more people from the U.S. will retire offshore to places likeG > Belize, Mexico, Costa Rica, especially when the choice comes down to:  > E >   Eating cat food in the U.S. vs. eating caviar in another country.  >   1 Whisker Lickins' Tuna doesn't taste all that bad.  :-)    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 01:04:44 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> K Subject: Re: I just wanted to share a note I sent to the group this morning G Message-ID: <MwLR9.161685$yW.4130@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   / "GreyCloud" <cumulus@mist.com> wrote in message " news:3E173FDC.184195DD@mist.com.... > > Paul Sture (p_sture@elias.decus.ch) wrote: > > : 1 > > : For more detailed reading on the place, try   http://www.belize.com/index/newsD > > : (where the same book is mentioned at $29.95, or an alternative	 at a mere 
 > > : $7.50.)  > > :  > > - > > Thanks for the additional link on Belize.  > > E > > More and more people from the U.S. will retire offshore to places  likeE > > Belize, Mexico, Costa Rica, especially when the choice comes down  to:  > > > > >   Eating cat food in the U.S. vs. eating caviar in another country. > >  > 3 > Whisker Lickins' Tuna doesn't taste all that bad.  > :-)   $ Which wine does one drink with that?   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 16:42:51 GMT 9 From: Alan Adams <alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk> ' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use? ? Message-ID: <864a9baf4b.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>   . In message <v1a70r26ehbef5@corp.supernews.com>,           Z  <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> wrote:  , > Paul Sture <p_sture@elias.decus.ch> wrote:A > : Now your quest is to get out of it - CTRL/C won't let you :-) G > : Answer: Q or E. CTRL/Z does get me back to the command line prompt, 0 > : but with the mysterious message "Suspended". > F > There's nothing mysterious about it.  ^Z forces the current shell toH > the background.  It's very handy, like SPAWN, but w/o all the overhead > of process creation. > 8 > fg will bring your background shell to the foreground.  I And that's one of my bigger irritations on the few occasions I had to use K Unix. I am so used to using ctrl-Z to exit things that I ended up with lots > of background processes, and then it wouldn't let me log out.   G It got even worse when the sysadmin stopped me using ctrl-D to log out.    --  
 Alan Adams& alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk http://www.nckc.org.uk/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 20:56:43 +0100 6 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use? ) Message-ID: <3E173C7B.7050207@vajhoej.dk>    Brian Tillman wrote: > Actually, I think  > 1 > $ dfu delete/directory/tree dev:[dir]subdir.dir  >  > to be simplest.    DFU is not part of VMS.   K >                Who the hell can remember that "rm" equals "delete" unless  > you do it every day?   I completely agree.    Arne   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jan 2003 20:50:50 -0800 . From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use? = Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0301042050.4391229a@posting.google.com>   [ carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) wrote in message news:<2JAN200321390723@gerg.tamu.edu>...  > bill@cs.uofs.edu writes...4 > }	spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes: [...]  > }> 5. OK, how's this:  > }>   > }> Factorial function:   > }>   > }>         0! = 1,  2 > }>         n! = n * (n-1)!  for n an integer > 0 > }>  H > }> It's easier to think of it as all the positive integers from 1 to nD > }> multiplied together, isn't it? But the second line of the aboveI > }> definition includes the defining property of the factorial function. H > }> The first line provides the normalization (the scale, if you wish).+ > }> Both ways of looking at it are useful.  > } C > }BUt that is not how mathematics defines it and that was my whole  > * > Yes, it is how mathemeticians define it. > E > }point.  While that definition is reasonable and probably all right D > }for 5th graders, by the time one has had algebra and triginometryB > }and most assuredly by the time one learns calculus one is readyE > }to be given the real mathematics behind factorials.  It seems from ? > }the people I have talked with here that unless one majors in C > }mathematics one can not expect to actually go beyond the formula  > }you give above. > } G > }Let me add that when it was explained to me by a real mathemetician, I > }I didn't understand it.  But at least he didn't patronize me by saying ! > }the formula above was correct.  > }  > }bill  > C > He probably told you about the gamma function. The gamma function ? > and the factorial are not the same thing. You can tell by the C > way they are both spelled differently and pronounced differently. A > The factorial was invented before the gamma function. The gamma D > function was an extension of the factorial into the complex plane.4 > For positive integer values "n", Gamma(n) = (n-1)!B > The gamma function was defined such that this would be the case,A > it was not the factorial that was defined to be like this as it D > existed before the gamma function was invented and as such clearlyE > could not have been defined based on the gamma function. The actual % > definition of the gamma function is > > Gamma(z) = integral from 0 to ininity of t**(z-1)*e**(-t)*dtF > for all complex numbers z that have a real component greater than 0.  E Wow. I didn't know it was useful to extend z (the domain of the Gamma 5 function, i.e.) to (part of) the complex plane. Cool!   ? > Proving that this has the above mentioned relationship to the D > factorial is doable if you know enough math and have some practiceB > at that sort of thing, but it is a picyune pain in the posterior- > regions - as are most mathematical proofs.    E Well, in this case, it's actually not too hard. You can integrate the E formula for Gamma(p+1) by parts and very quickly get p*Gamma(p). Then F you evaluate Gamma(1) by performing the integral for that and you findA that it comes out to 1. From there a little algebra gives you the D factorial function. Now, that's proof enough for me but I don't knowE if rigorous mathematicians would be satisfied with just that. I don't @ know what else you could do to make it more rigorous, however. I4 suppose your math teacher wouldn't be happy with it.  D Now for some things, like existence and uniquenss proofs, yes, I can@ see how that can be rather difficult. I mean you're proving thatF either something that is far from obvious exists, doesn't exist, or is+ the only solution for a particular problem.   D For example: Fermat's two squares theorem: Every prime number of theD form 4n + 1 can be written as the sum of two squares in one and only one way.  C Now I can easily see how the proof for this could be rather lengthy C and/or difficult. You're proving that for all such numbers there is C only one way to do something for each of them. I also can't imagine E how mathematicians prove that there is no general formula for solving C polynomial equations of degree 5 and higher. How can you prove that @ when a single counter-example would disprove it? Somehow, it was; proven, and no one has ever come up with a counter-example.   C But sometimes the proof is not long and difficult. Euler's proof of F Euclid's theorem that there are an infinite number of prime numbers isD short enough to fit on half a page of a book and uses the divergenceF of the harmonic series to do it. I've read it and understood it, but IB am in awe of how anyone could have come up with that. (It's a very cool, fascinating proof, BTW.)   > I know as I had to do E > it for a class and, as I recall, left out a couple of minor details D > (which reduced the grade for that assignment considerably). (Being  E But I don't see what else you'd have to do (based on what I explained B above) for proving the Gamma function/factorial function bit we'veB just been through. That's one reason I didn't major in theoretical math.   A > able to prove such things in the methematical sense of "prove"  B > requires logic and a great capacity for attention to detail, andB > probably being slightly deranged in an unusal way if you plan toD > enjoy doing them. I certainly didn't enjoy it, "proving" that if I3 > am deranged it is in a completely different way.)   C However, there is a reason for having to be so rigorous. There have E been too many surprises over the years. Here's a cool example: It was F once thought that if one had an infinite sequence of functions, and ifE such a sequence converged to a function, then that limit function had D to be continuous, too. Sounds pretty reasonable, right? How could it@ be any other way? Well, there is a counter-example! Consider theD sequence of functions x^n on the interval [0,1] where n=1,2,.... ForF any given value of n, the function is continuous. What is the limit asB n goes to infinity? Well, any number between 0 and 1 multiplied byB itself over and over goes to 0. Even .99999 will go to zero. But 1F will remain 1. So the limit function is 0 for 0 <= x < 1 and 1 for x =& 1. Clearly discontinuous at x = 1. (!)  = It's no wonder mathematical proofs are like you say they are!   F Someone once showed me a proof that there are no integers between zeroE and one! Incredible. Who'd even imagine that that would be a problem? A It's supposedly useful for something; I can't remember just what,  though.   H > But this has nothing to do with VMS, other than that things have names> > and you should use the correct name when talking about them.   True.    Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman   F Stay tuned! Well be right back with more commercials. But first, a few minutes of the program.    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 01:00:44 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> + Subject: Re: New Marvel machines? New news? F Message-ID: <0tLR9.156073$E_.509@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message , news:bAednQNQFcS-iIijXTWcqQ@metrocast.net... > = > "Lyndon Bartels" <lbartels@pressenter.com> wrote in message ) > news:3E14B1BB.D664332@pressenter.com... F > > The last I heard, HP was supposed to announce the new EV7 (Marvel) > > machines this month. > >  > >   > > Any new information? Gossip? > D > Some fairly encouraging 1150 MHz EV7 SPECOMP2001 (multi-processor)D > performance numbers (over 60% better than Itanic2, well over twice the ? > PA-RISC scores, 10% - 20% better than the new 1.45 GHz 130 nm  POWER4) have@ > just been quoted in the News&Views forum at realworldtech.com.    < Too bad Compaq didn't get these out the door when originallyC scheduled. With performance numbers like these at original schedule F release date, IA-64 would have been stillborn (may yet anyway), and HP9 might have licensed Alpha rather than buying the company.   D But that's the way the cookie crumbles when you have incompetents at the top.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 01:13:32 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> + Subject: Re: New Marvel machines? New news? H Message-ID: <0FLR9.161785$yW.86582@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  1 "Michael Unger" <unger@decus.de> wrote in message % news:00A1977F.BE34EA95.13@decus.de... 2 > "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote: > @ > > In article <3E14B1BB.D664332@pressenter.com>, Lyndon Bartels# > <lbartels@pressenter.com> writes: ? > > > The last I heard, HP was supposed to announce the new EV7  (Marvel) > > > machines this month. > > >  > > > " > > > Any new information? Gossip? > > B > > There was lots at the VMS Symposium in Nashua, but were aren't supposedA > > to say.   The parts I heard will not disappoint you, but then 	 again the - > > parts I heard did not include pricing :-)  > D > Prices are available online from the Compaq/HP (Germany) web site,$ > including ES47 and GS1280 systems: >  > F http://www1.compaq.de/preisliste/pricelist.aspx?category_id=85505.0&ca > tegory_name=AlphaServer  >  > (Be aware of line wrapping!) > F > The page itself is in German of course but navigation should be easyA > since the system names and specifications are in plain English.  > E > Note: The prices mentioned are for "base" systems excluding options  so4 > "real" systems may be a bit more expensive ... :-) > ! > (1 Euro = 1 US-$ approximately)     5 Whomever administers the web site ought to change the E Industriestandardserver link to read 'Wintel Servers'.  If that's the + 'standard' the industry aspires to, sheesh!    ------------------------------   Date: 4 JAN 2003 20:33:49 GMT 2 From: karcher@kort.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher); Subject: Re: SAN recommendations mixing VMS, Solaris, Linux 3 Message-ID: <4JAN03.20334920@kort.waisman.wisc.edu>   I In a previous article, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:   B ->Word "on the street" is that EMC doesn't play nice with VOLSHAD. ->  & ->Have you any insights or experience?  D No. Past posts on this forum told of pretty serious Symmetrix horror? stories. While that was a while ago it still sticks in my mind.   B Now that Rob Young mentioned Veritas has a shared file system thatG supports sun and linux that could tip things in favor of the EVA. Whew.    --G -- Carl Karcher, Waisman Computing Services, Waisman Center, UW-Madison 9 --                  karcher.nomorespam@waisman.wisc.edu      ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jan 2003 16:29:59 -0600 + From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) ; Subject: Re: SAN recommendations mixing VMS, Solaris, Linux 3 Message-ID: <NdW546kOqjEZ@eisner.encompasserve.org>   [ In article <3E1634C1.28E6C234@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:  > Carl Karcher wrote: 	 >> [snip] I >> I've found VMS support by SAN vendors to be few and far. There are two G >> I'm sure about: HP Storageworks (including EVA) and EMC's Symmetrix.  > B > Word "on the street" is that EMC doesn't play nice with VOLSHAD. > & > Have you any insights or experience? >    	Yes.   < 	Reality is that it of course it doesn't support mini-merge.  = 	But do some IO calculations , spread out your DBs and try to F 	determine if you can "afford" to be in full merge across your cluster@ 	if a node crashes month-end in the a.m.  EVA of course would beC 	better even with non-support of mini-merge as your LUNs are across @ 	a great many more physical disks hence the underlying IO engineE 	should be able to handle merges (or more accurately dual-reads until E 	merge completes or mostly completes) except for extreme cases (there @ 	is a lot to consider here, don't think I am trivilializing it).  D 	There is an underlying potential hardware issue as explained to me,B 	that is READL/WRITEL isn't supported by the aforementioned vendor0 	in their high-end box.  However, unless you RPQF 	and have single drives at the hardware level everything is underlying@ 	hypers (RAID1 across disk directors, etc.  ask if interested inK 	architecture), because of that, my take is non-support of READL/WRITEL is  K 	a non-issue and basically arrived at that conclusion after discussion with  	someone that is in the know.    					Rob   ------------------------------    Date: 05 Jan 2003 08:04:39 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>; Subject: Re: SAN recommendations mixing VMS, Solaris, Linux - Message-ID: <87lm2031ig.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   3 "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:    > Carl Karcher wrote: 
 > > [snip]  F > > I've found VMS support by SAN vendors to be few and far. There areA > > two I'm sure about: HP Storageworks (including EVA) and EMC's  > > Symmetrix.   B > Word "on the street" is that EMC doesn't play nice with VOLSHAD.   & > Have you any insights or experience?  < Symetrix I'm told will not do SCSI ReadLong or WriteLong, so= HBVSs are at risk of losing data. Serve it to the billyboxen,  no one will ever notice.   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 19:11:16 GMT 7 From: brad@.homeportal.2wire.net (Bradford J. Hamilton) + Subject: Re: Unable to access Telnet or FTP . Message-ID: <olGR9.233066$qF3.18227@sccrnsc04>  f In article <3E172910.1D9733BE@firstdbasource.com>, Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> writes: <snip> > H >I prefer to NOT use DHCP for anything on my home network... including 2* >A2100, Linux, and 3 versions of Winblows.  M I wasn't even aware that was an option on my home network; can you elaborate, ( or give pointers to relevant URL's, etc?   >  >-- 	 >Regards,  > 7 >Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 1984 8 >First DBA Source, Inc.    Registered Linux User #261163   Thanks,     A _________________________________________________________________ 0 Bradford J. Hamilton			"All opinions are my own"/ bMradAhamiPltSon@atMtAbi.cPoSm		"Lose the MAPS"    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 13:39:10 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> + Subject: Re: Unable to access Telnet or FTP ' Message-ID: <3E17385E.DB7ECD1B@fsi.net>    "Bradford J. Hamilton" wrote:  > h > In article <3E172910.1D9733BE@firstdbasource.com>, Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> writes: > <snip> > > J > >I prefer to NOT use DHCP for anything on my home network... including 2, > >A2100, Linux, and 3 versions of Winblows. > O > I wasn't even aware that was an option on my home network; can you elaborate, * > or give pointers to relevant URL's, etc?  9 I believe you'll find them at Process Software's website.    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jan 2003 11:29:22 -0800 5 From: Craig A. Berry <craigberry@nospam.telocity.com> + Subject: Re: Unable to access Telnet or FTP 6 Message-ID: <20030104132921742-0600@news.telocity.com>  A In <olGR9.233066$qF3.18227@sccrnsc04> Bradford J. Hamilton wrote: D > In article <3E172910.1D9733BE@firstdbasource.com>, Michael Austin - > <maustin@firstdbasource.com> writes: <snip>  >>H >>I prefer to NOT use DHCP for anything on my home network... including - >>2 A2100, Linux, and 3 versions of Winblows.  > E > I wasn't even aware that was an option on my home network; can you  5 > elaborate, or give pointers to relevant URL's, etc?   & Try the TCP/IP Services documentation:  F <http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc/731FINAL/6524/6524pro_002.html#sec_ autoconfig>   F I don't think the DHCP client came along until v5.1, and IIRC v5.0 is @ what ships with VMS 7.2, which is what is on the hobbyist media  available from Montagar.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 21:45:01 GMT % From: Marco Shaw <marco@Znbnet.nb.ca> + Subject: Re: Unable to access Telnet or FTP + Message-ID: <3E175AFB.9020902@Znbnet.nb.ca>   I >>I prefer to NOT use DHCP for anything on my home network... including 2 + >>A2100, Linux, and 3 versions of Winblows.  > O > I wasn't even aware that was an option on my home network; can you elaborate, * > or give pointers to relevant URL's, etc?  I I'm a bit confused, but he may be simply assigning static private IPs to  B all the boxes inside, then providing some NAT gateway assuming he 4 requires Internet access on any/all of the machines.   Therefore no DHCP required...    Marco    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 22:12:23 GMT 1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> + Subject: Re: Unable to access Telnet or FTP 2 Message-ID: <3E175C12.D08B512A@firstdbasource.com>   Marco Shaw wrote:  > K > >>I prefer to NOT use DHCP for anything on my home network... including 2 - > >>A2100, Linux, and 3 versions of Winblows.  > > Q > > I wasn't even aware that was an option on my home network; can you elaborate, , > > or give pointers to relevant URL's, etc? > J > I'm a bit confused, but he may be simply assigning static private IPs toC > all the boxes inside, then providing some NAT gateway assuming he 6 > requires Internet access on any/all of the machines. >  > Therefore no DHCP required...  >  > Marco   C exactly. Requires something to do the DSL/Cable-modem routing -- an G Alpha with 2 NICS works very well (bridged only) unless you have to use H PPPoE then use a Linux box or a DSL/Cable-specific router (BEFSR41 works- well - make sure it has the 1.44.x firmware.)   D All addresses on the LAN need to be either 192.168.1.xxx or 10.x.x.xF addresses. Default gateway is the router, DNS are the ones provided toF your router.  Sometimes PC's get into this weird thing trying to renewF the DHCP address every 10 minutes or so causing it to appear that your network has hung.    As always.... YMMV.    --   Regards,  6 Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 19847 First DBA Source, Inc.    Registered Linux User #261163    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 22:33:36 GMT 7 From: brad@.homeportal.2wire.net (Bradford J. Hamilton) + Subject: Re: Unable to access Telnet or FTP . Message-ID: <4jJR9.630928$NH2.43706@sccrnsc01>  S In article <3E175AFB.9020902@Znbnet.nb.ca>, Marco Shaw <marco@Znbnet.nb.ca> writes: J >>>I prefer to NOT use DHCP for anything on my home network... including 2, >>>A2100, Linux, and 3 versions of Winblows. >>  P >> I wasn't even aware that was an option on my home network; can you elaborate,+ >> or give pointers to relevant URL's, etc?  > J >I'm a bit confused, but he may be simply assigning static private IPs to C >all the boxes inside, then providing some NAT gateway assuming he  5 >requires Internet access on any/all of the machines.  >  >Therefore no DHCP required...  N I actually did that for my Alpha box so that I could use the network to obtainJ TCPware from process.com, and then installed and configured TCPware to use4 DHCP, after shutting down the TCP/IP Services stack.  O If the original poster can use a static address for his Alpha box, then we need J some more information to figure out why he is having trouble accessing hisO network (or a clearer statement detailing just what kind of access issues he is  having).   >  >Marco >   A _________________________________________________________________ 0 Bradford J. Hamilton			"All opinions are my own"/ bMradAhamiPltSon@atMtAbi.cPoSm		"Lose the MAPS"    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 14:56:14 -0800 % From: Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com> + Subject: Re: Unable to access Telnet or FTP ( Message-ID: <3E17668E.9070005@rdrop.com>   Michael Austin wrote: F > All addresses on the LAN need to be either 192.168.1.xxx or 10.x.x.x > addresses.   Or 172.16 ... 172.31.    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 02:23:02 GMT 1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> + Subject: Re: Unable to access Telnet or FTP 2 Message-ID: <3E1796E4.5A3F3214@firstdbasource.com>   Dean Woodward wrote: >  > Michael Austin wrote: H > > All addresses on the LAN need to be either 192.168.1.xxx or 10.x.x.x > > addresses. >  > Or 172.16 ... 172.31.     H sometimes this *MAY* be dictated by the modem and whether or not you canF change the LAN addressing in the modem/router.  The Alcatel SpeedTouchE Home can be both the modem and a router. (there is the [P]rofessional A version and then there are those that hack the normal STH to be a H STHP).  Since I have the router (as well as a WAP) I may as well use it.G :)  The WAP was purchased to keep me from having to run new wiring from E the basement to an upstairs office when I relocated a few months ago.      --   Regards,  6 Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 19847 First DBA Source, Inc.    Registered Linux User #261163 7 Sr. Consultant            http://www.firstdbasource.com @ For those that need it, I know have a new Home Office and Mobile  numnbers. - Just drop me a note.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 15:27:32 GMT 9 From: Alan Adams <alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk> & Subject: Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth? Message-ID: <646594af4b.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>   + In message <av537e02hcb@enews2.newsguy.com> =           "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> wrote:   B > In comp.sys.dec Chris Hedley <cbh@ieya.co.remove_this.uk> wrote:E > > (I don't think that any of the VAX systems had much in the way of I > > notoriety for hardware failures, though; whether or not one likes the L > > architecture [why did I nearly write "artichoketure"?] I think that most, > > will agree that they were pretty rugged) > I > The only 'notoriety' for hardware failures that I can think of would be N > related to disk drives.  Consider how infamous the RD53 is, and I believe atH > least one model of the RA8x is noted for problem with the drive heads.  H Up to 1992 we were running 12 RA81s and 4 RA82s. A Dec field service guyE told us the MTBF of the HDAs was about 16 months, and that was almost F exactly right by our experience. Every month, another HDA, and another> backup to restore. Now why am I stil so paranoid about backup?   > N > Now the VAXen themselves, even the ones that suffer from problematic drives, > are pretty much rock solid.  > 	 > 			Zane    --  
 Alan Adams& alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk http://www.nckc.org.uk/    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 11:20:24 -0800* From: "Jack Peacock" <peacock@simconv.com>& Subject: Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth2 Message-ID: <h7WdnaqbM-plroqjXTWcpw@mpowercom.net>  < "Chris Hedley" <cbh@ieya.co.REMOVE_THIS.uk> wrote in message" news:6ap6va.2o.ln@teabag.cbhnet...K > I'm still not entirely sure what the story was behind the 9000s; it seems I > that everybody takes in a sharp intake of breath through clenched teeth K > when talking about them and there're dark allusions to unreliability, but - > I'm still vague as to what was the problem.( >LF Wasn't it some kind of problem with the multi-chip modules used on theB 9000s?  Something about heat distribution on the substrate, or the: interconnects between the dice failing after a few months?    Jack Peacock    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 20:57:10 -0000; From: "Rupert Pigott" <darkboo-remove-this-ng.@hotmail.com>n& Subject: Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth4 Message-ID: <av7hr3$nhg$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk>  F "Alan Adams" <alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message9 news:646594af4b.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk...r   [SNIP]  J > Up to 1992 we were running 12 RA81s and 4 RA82s. A Dec field service guyG > told us the MTBF of the HDAs was about 16 months, and that was almosttH > exactly right by our experience. Every month, another HDA, and another@ > backup to restore. Now why am I stil so paranoid about backup?  C RA8x's were legendary for being lame. I believe that they had a fewa	 extremelyeE bad batches of them too. RA9x's also had some really dodgy batches ofO drives,iH didn't DEC sell it's hard drive outfit to someone else shortly after the RA9x	 debacle ?a  J I know that I was glad that the drives with my 11/785 were Fujitsu Eagles,K although I was a little worried about the System Industries controller they K hung off (several of those had blown up randomly writing junk to the drivese at that particular PPOE). :P   Cheers,R Rupert   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 11:13:44 -0800* From: "Jack Peacock" <peacock@simconv.com>* Subject: VMS in Vegas (Was [OT] Lotteries)2 Message-ID: <8o2dnfq2qq71r4qjXTWc3A@mpowercom.net>  0 "Arne Vajhj" <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote in message# news:3E16EC2B.2040000@vajhoej.dk...e >a? > Casinos are a competitive business. Lotteries are monopolies.u > J Which explains the extremely poor return on investment in buying a lotteryC ticket vs. putting the same dollar into a slot machine.  When has a J government monopoly competing against (sorry, replacing.) private businessH ever offered better value?  It is interesting to note no government that& runs a lottery will allow competition. >n; > Casino profit goes to owners. Lottery profit goes to goode	 > causes.c > I Casino profits are taxed (at a steep 5.75% state rate in addition to fed. H income tax) and go to general revenue, where they are used for all thoseE good causes statewide. Of course, employees and stockholders at those J casinos might argue operating a profitable business that employs thousands is a good cause as well. >aI At one time VMS was a common system in Nevada casinos.  Several were used<I for accounting (installed by the humble author), some are still in use assK part of a check cashing system (sadly doomed to be retired this year, or aseK soon as they can figure out how to make an AS/400 run as fast as an Alpha),aG and even the state used VMS to track gaming licenses, taxes and revenueoH reporting.  Some of the race and sports book systems were VMS based too.J IBM AS/400s were and still are the dominant systems in the casino business> but PDP-11s, VAXes and a few Alphas found a niche for a while.  K DEC even had an office in Las Vegas for a few years.  Sorry to see them go,R we traded favors several times.e     Jack Peacock   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 20:41:55 +0100d6 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>. Subject: Re: VMS in Vegas (Was [OT] Lotteries)) Message-ID: <3E173903.3070308@vajhoej.dk>e   Jack Peacock wrote:s2 > "Arne Vajhj" <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote in message% > news:3E16EC2B.2040000@vajhoej.dk... ? >>Casinos are a competitive business. Lotteries are monopolies.  > L > Which explains the extremely poor return on investment in buying a lottery9 > ticket vs. putting the same dollar into a slot machine.e   No it does not.u  8 Because in countries were government autorised lotteries4 also has monopoly on slot machines, then the payback3 percentage is still higher on slot machines than on? lottery.   Different game.   I  >                                                             When has aML > government monopoly competing against (sorry, replacing.) private businessJ > ever offered better value?  It is interesting to note no government that( > runs a lottery will allow competition.  % It would not make any sense to do so.h  8 It does not make sense to have two competing governement
 lotteries.   It does not make sense to have:e9    - one government lottery that pay approx. 33% of grosst
      salesH    - on private lottery that pay smaller percentage of net profit in tax& that would hardly be fair competition.   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 13:38:06 -0600c1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>e. Subject: Re: VMS in Vegas (Was [OT] Lotteries)' Message-ID: <3E17381E.45761C35@fsi.net>e   Jack Peacock wrote:  > 2 > "Arne Vajhj" <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote in message% > news:3E16EC2B.2040000@vajhoej.dk...o > > A > > Casinos are a competitive business. Lotteries are monopolies.r > >fL > Which explains the extremely poor return on investment in buying a lotteryE > ticket vs. putting the same dollar into a slot machine.  When has a L > government monopoly competing against (sorry, replacing.) private businessJ > ever offered better value?  It is interesting to note no government that( > runs a lottery will allow competition. > >c= > > Casino profit goes to owners. Lottery profit goes to good- > > causes., > >nK > Casino profits are taxed (at a steep 5.75% state rate in addition to fed.uJ > income tax) and go to general revenue, where they are used for all thoseG > good causes statewide. Of course, employees and stockholders at those L > casinos might argue operating a profitable business that employs thousands > is a good cause as well. > > K > At one time VMS was a common system in Nevada casinos.  Several were useduK > for accounting (installed by the humble author), some are still in use aseM > part of a check cashing system (sadly doomed to be retired this year, or aseM > soon as they can figure out how to make an AS/400 run as fast as an Alpha),aI > and even the state used VMS to track gaming licenses, taxes and revenueoJ > reporting.  Some of the race and sports book systems were VMS based too.L > IBM AS/400s were and still are the dominant systems in the casino business@ > but PDP-11s, VAXes and a few Alphas found a niche for a while. > M > DEC even had an office in Las Vegas for a few years.  Sorry to see them go,s! > we traded favors several times.  >     Jack Peacock  3 Gee... So many specific citations of VMS attrition.-  G ...and yet, no one can cite a new VMS installation, while claims of VMs  growth abound.  G Tune in again next week for another chapter in the saga of the Conflicti at Credibility Gap...    -- 1 David J. Dachtera4 dba DJE Systemsl http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 16:31:33 -0500' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>/. Subject: RE: VMS in Vegas (Was [OT] Lotteries)T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660C7B@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   David,  I <<< ...and yet, no one can cite a new VMS installation, while claims of =o VMs growth abound.>>>o  = Fyi- just to satisfy your request, Toronto Stock Exchange:=20lG http://www.tse.com/en/mediaNews/newsreleases/news2265.html (April 2002)U  C "APRIL 8, 2002 (TORONTO) -- The Toronto Stock Exchange Inc. (TSE) ='I announced today that more than $120 million in orders were entered into =hH the POSIT Canada trading facility on the first official day of trading =C on Friday, April 5th.=A0 Actual trading results are not disclosed =u: because of the anonymous feature of the trading facility."   :-)n  H We also get win reports internally where Ambassadors are involved, but =3 for obvious reasons, those are HP internal only.=20t   Regardsl  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantr Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.! Consulting & Integration Serviceso Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom-     (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s)s     -----Original Message-----9 From: David J. Dachtera [mailto:djesys.nospam@fsi.net]=20  Sent: January 4, 2003 2:38 PMi To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comv. Subject: Re: VMS in Vegas (Was [OT] Lotteries)     Jack Peacock wrote:  >=207 > "Arne Vajh=F8j" <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote in message=20n% > news:3E16EC2B.2040000@vajhoej.dk...  > >sA > > Casinos are a competitive business. Lotteries are monopolies.f > >gG > Which explains the extremely poor return on investment in buying a=20sJ > lottery ticket vs. putting the same dollar into a slot machine.  When=20D > has a government monopoly competing against (sorry, replacing.)=20J > private business ever offered better value?  It is interesting to note =  ; > no government that runs a lottery will allow competition.R > > E > > Casino profit goes to owners. Lottery profit goes to good causes.  > > I > Casino profits are taxed (at a steep 5.75% state rate in addition to=20:H > fed. income tax) and go to general revenue, where they are used for=20J > all those good causes statewide. Of course, employees and stockholders =  F > at those casinos might argue operating a profitable business that=20, > employs thousands is a good cause as well. > > I > At one time VMS was a common system in Nevada casinos.  Several were=20eI > used for accounting (installed by the humble author), some are still=20 I > in use as part of a check cashing system (sadly doomed to be retired=202J > this year, or as soon as they can figure out how to make an AS/400 run =  F > as fast as an Alpha), and even the state used VMS to track gaming=20H > licenses, taxes and revenue reporting.  Some of the race and sports=20H > book systems were VMS based too. IBM AS/400s were and still are the=20I > dominant systems in the casino business but PDP-11s, VAXes and a few=20 # > Alphas found a niche for a while.  >=20G > DEC even had an office in Las Vegas for a few years.  Sorry to see=20>* > them go, we traded favors several times. >     Jack Peacock  3 Gee... So many specific citations of VMS attrition.   H ..and yet, no one can cite a new VMS installation, while claims of VMs = growth abound.  I Tune in again next week for another chapter in the saga of the Conflict =e at Credibility Gap...    --=205 David J. Dachterat dba DJE Systemsl http://www.djesys.com/  H Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 17:19:27 -0400l0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>. Subject: Re: VMS in Vegas (Was [OT] Lotteries)/ Message-ID: <3E174FD9.6AA982F4@vl.videotron.ca>    "Main, Kerry" wrote:y > We also get win reports internally where Ambassadors are involved, but for obvious reasons, those are HP internal only.n  N That is the problem. "HP internal".  HP really needs to convince VMS customersJ to participate in VMS marketing by allowing their names to be mentioned in press releases.o  M If HP has no problem flounting Tandem at very strategic sites such as NASDAQ,eL then it shoudl also have no problems flounting VMS at other strategic sites.  K It should be easy to convince new customers of the value of mantioning thisiL new win since giving VMS the image of positive movement is key to attractingO more applications, developpers etc which in the end will benefit that customer.   ' Where there is a will, there is a way. a  9 It would go a long way towards dispelling the rumours of:b 	-VMS dyinga% 	-HP not intyerested in marketing VMS   L if HP were to coax its VMS customers to agree to flaunt those installations.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 21:42:28 -0600e1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>f. Subject: Re: VMS in Vegas (Was [OT] Lotteries)' Message-ID: <3E17A9A4.E303C29F@fsi.net>    "Main, Kerry" wrote: >  > David, > _ > <<< ...and yet, no one can cite a new VMS installation, while claims of VMs growth abound.>>>c > < > Fyi- just to satisfy your request, Toronto Stock Exchange:I > http://www.tse.com/en/mediaNews/newsreleases/news2265.html (April 2002)e > M> "APRIL 8, 2002 (TORONTO) -- The Toronto Stock Exchange Inc. (TSE) announced today that more than $120 million in orders were entered into the POSIT Canada trading facility on the first official day of trading on Friday, April 5th.  Actual trading results are not disclosed because of the anonymous feature of the trading facility."r >  > :-)h > y > We also get win reports internally where Ambassadors are involved, but for obvious reasons, those are HP internal only.s  * Not so obvious, really. Can you elucidate?   --   David J. Dachterak dba DJE Systemsn http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/s   ------------------------------    Date: 05 Jan 2003 08:17:57 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>= Subject: Re: wallpaper for the "normal" DECWindows interface?e- Message-ID: <87heco30wa.fsf@prep.synonet.com>s  N winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") writes:  _ > In article <3E160852.7000604@Free.fr>, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr> writes:oK > >I found in the FAQ the way to set up a wallpaper for the CPQWindows CDE.c  D > >But, as I'm 52, and following the same motivation which preventedF > >me to move from EDT to TPU/EVE/XYZ/whatever, I never "moved" to the7 > >CDE (is it because the DIGITAL logo was missing? :-)   C > >So, the question is: is it possible to have a wallpaper with theh > >Genuine DEC DECWindows?  lC > Yes.  You can get XV to display an arbitrary graphic to your rootb	 > window.   bD > (Finding your root window can be a challenge, but ISTR a procedure= > being posted here years ago - try googling on XV and root.)s  % It is in the VMS FAQ, thank you Hoff.o  7 And yeah, my first reaction to 7.3-1; "It's got to go!"    -- B< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.c@                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 20:37:00 +0100n4 From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr># Subject: XV picture editor thoughtso& Message-ID: <3E1737DC.7020801@Free.fr>  N I successfully installed John Bradley's XV picture editor, available from the # FREEWARE CD 4 in directory [XV310A]r  Q All features worked fine so far, except the SAVE function. The default directory  O name in the SAVE window has a "/" appended which obviously causes a DCL syntax cM error when trying to register a picture with another name. I found no way to t" edit the default directory string.  O Also, I did not find the way to tell the SAVE window to put the file elsewhere t than in the default directory.  > Apart the HELP file, is there some documentation on this tool?   Thanks,e   D.  Q PS: for those who asked me "how to have a picture in the bg window", I logged in c? with the SYSTEM account, selected a picture (actually this one:l  @ http://chezhermione.free.fr/photos/visu.php?cat=3&i=008&inter=1)  ! then typed the following command:B    $ xv hermione.jpg -root -rmode 5 $ ^C $ stop  ? Which means "set picture in root window centered with solid bg" G The ^C and STOP commands exit the editor, leaving the picture in place.n: (entry "3 Root_Window_Options" in file [XV310A.VMS]XV.HLP)   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 20:38:26 -0000 ( From: Paul Williams <news@celigne.co.uk>' Subject: Re: XV picture editor thoughts : Message-ID: <Xns92F9D1CBDFEADnewscelignecouk@216.168.3.30>  7 Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr> wrote ini news:3E1737DC.7020801@Free.fr: a  F > PS: for those who asked me "how to have a picture in the bg window",9 > I logged in with the SYSTEM account, selected a picture- > # > then typed the following command:, > " > $ xv hermione.jpg -root -rmode 5 > $ ^C > $ stop > A > Which means "set picture in root window centered with solid bg"9B > The ^C and STOP commands exit the editor, leaving the picture inC > place. (entry "3 Root_Window_Options" in file [XV310A.VMS]XV.HLP)q  L IIRC, you can use the option "-quit" to get xv to exit automatically, after I displaying the picture. (It's been a long time since I used this though.)P   - Paul   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 14:28:48 -0500  From: Ray <lists@aik.tec.sc.us> 4 Subject: Re: [OT] Lotteries (was Re: Happy New Year)- Message-ID: <3E1735F0.76D66532@aik.tec.sc.us>   C This is sort of the reverse of the old story about the College Coed C that accidentally made dates with both a math major and engineeringuB student for the same time.  When they both showed up together, she@ came up with the plan to have both of them come 1/2 the distance@ to her each time she told them.  Then the first one to reach herB she would date.  The math major said "Let's go, we will never get B there."  The engineer said "I'm staying, I figure that I will get  close enough."  D ==================================================================== Dean Woodward wrote: >  > Sue Skonetski wrote:C >  > Thank you for your kind thoughts but just so you know I do notnG >  > play/gamble with the lottery tickets.  I sit with the engineers atbG >  > lunch and none of them play either.  They told me that the odds ofs0 >  > winning are the same as not playing at all. > - > ROTFL!  Sue neatly defines an engineer. ;-)t > F >  > Since I am not a technical person I do not really understand that >  > logic but I trust them. > F > The engineers are right- the odds of winning are vastly against you-E > close enough to zero that it can be discounted.  OTOH, if you play, A > they're also immeasurably better than if you don't play at all-tE > because if you don't buy any tickets, then you obviously will nevert > buy the winning one. > H > Myself, I believe the lottery is a tax for people who don't understand? > math, offset slightly by the entertainment value it provides.8 > G > Final thought- I believe a fair number of lottery systems run on VMS-i: > or used to.  Buy a ticket, support your favorite OS. ;-)   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.009 ************************