0 INFO-VAX	Mon, 06 Jan 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 11      Contents:2 Re: Branches - Tape and MO data library automation' Re: F$GETDVI ("AVL") in an IF statement ' Re: F$GETDVI ("AVL") in an IF statement ' Re: F$GETDVI ("AVL") in an IF statement ' Re: F$GETDVI ("AVL") in an IF statement ' Re: F$GETDVI ("AVL") in an IF statement ' Re: F$GETDVI ("AVL") in an IF statement ! Re: Finding info on Alpha Systems ! RE: Finding info on Alpha Systems ! Re: Finding info on Alpha Systems ! Re: Finding info on Alpha Systems B Re: I just wanted to share a note I sent to the group this morningB Re: I just wanted to share a note I sent to the group this morningB Re: I just wanted to share a note I sent to the group this morningB Re: I just wanted to share a note I sent to the group this morningB Re: I just wanted to share a note I sent to the group this morning Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Marvel talks at The Inquirer... # Re: Marvel talks at The Inquirer... # Re: Marvel talks at The Inquirer... " Re: New Marvel machines? New news? Re: Purveyor for OpenVMS Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth  Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth  Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth  Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth  Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth  Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth  Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth % RE: VMS in Vegas (Was [OT] Lotteries) % Re: VMS in Vegas (Was [OT] Lotteries) % Re: VMS in Vegas (Was [OT] Lotteries) % Re: VMS in Vegas (Was [OT] Lotteries) % Re: VMS in Vegas (Was [OT] Lotteries) % Re: VMS in Vegas (Was [OT] Lotteries)  Re: XV picture editor thoughts+ Re: [OT] Lotteries (was Re: Happy New Year) + Re: [OT] Lotteries (was Re: Happy New Year)   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 15:02:43 -0500  From: Everhart <ge@gce.com> ; Subject: Re: Branches - Tape and MO data library automation + Message-ID: <ava32b$iv3$1@bob.news.rcn.net>   I For those not familiar with Branches, it amounts to an operator in a box. M If you have a tape jukebox, it can automatically manage tapes in it, mounting O tapes as they are called for and storing off those dismounted. I believe it can K also handle disks in the same way if that is desired. The whole thing works Q off intercepting and responding to operator messages, though the package also has Q a catalog of what tapes are in the system. Pretty handy if, for example, you need O to do a backup of something to several tapes and want it all to run lights out. N You just write your script as though a human operator were in the room and letG Branches move the tape for you. It supports a very large number of tape O "libraries" (the hardware gadgets that hold lots of tapes and have one or a few Q real drives). I worked with Dick some years back on a disk followon, but the tape O product was and is solid and usable (and a good example of using c++ classes to 3 handle lots of slightly-differing hardware models).   K Branches does not impose any restrictions on tape format, so you can use it L to handle tapes on behalf of any OS that can be made to talk with VMS (whichO is a fair number of OSs). (This is as I recall; it has been awhile since I used O it. Still, Branches has separate management data and I believe I recall rightly + here...no funny tape formats are involved.)   P I have heard it said that when using a system a PHB does not know for a project,N it is often well to just use whatever you like and describe the system you are using as a black box.    Richard Munroe wrote: G > I've put a distribution of Branches onto sourceforge.net for download  > and ; > further development by the OpenVMS Open Source community.  >  > The project is available at: > / >     http://sourceforge.net/projects/branches/  > > > For those of you wrestling with the whole problem of archiveE > management, lights out operation, giving users access to tapes, and H > NOT wanting to dedicate an operator or buy a whole lot of tape drives, > check out Branches.  > C > On Sourceforge is an Alpha only kit.  I no longer have a VAX with E > which to develop Branches so OpenVMS/VAX is unsupported although as 5 > far as I know it should still compile and function.  > F > The source kit may be incomplete.  I'm still pulling in various bitsG > and pieces of things and will be updating it as time goes on.  If you B > grab a copy and find something missing let me know so that I can > update the source kit. > G > There are no longer any licenses required, so do the installation and  > go for it. > D > For more details on Branches, check out the old Acorn Software web > site:  >  >     http://www.acornsw.com/  >  > Use it in good health. > " > Dick Munroe (munroe@csworks.com) > G > p.s. I'm looking for work.  If anybody has anything interesting, give ' > me a shout.  My resume's available at ) > http://www.acornsw.com/resume/dick.html    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 14:28:29 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>0 Subject: Re: F$GETDVI ("AVL") in an IF statement/ Message-ID: <3E18794C.4FFC09FD@vl.videotron.ca>    "Alan E. Feldman" wrote:D > Re the freeblocks question: You can say that a device that doesn't/ > exist has zero free blocks. That makes sense.   M No, that doesn't make sense. You are then reporting a quantitative answer for m a device that doesn't exist instead of signaling that the device isn't available/exist/mounted/disk/whatever.   M Unless freeblocks could report a value (negative ?) that clearly indicates an H error (device not mounted, nonexistant , not disk based etc), you cannotN respond with a value. If you respond with 0 blocks, you have no way of knowingK whether that is a real answer or just a default answer because the value is  not available.  M But for question of whether the device can be mounted or not (AVL), reporting  FALSE doesn't mislead anyone.   N If the engineers were to change the behaviour such as "AVL" would return FALSEH when the device doesn't exist (instead of generating an error), would it  affect any existing procedures ?   if currently, you have:   # $IF F$GETDVI("$1$DKA200:","EXISTS")  $THEN   $	IF F$GETDVI("$1$DKA200","AVL") $	THENF $		MOUNT $1$DKA200 CHOCOLATE DISK$CHOCOLATE/dark/density=70%/hazelnuts $	ELSE3 $		write sys$output "Disk exists but not available"  $	ENDIF  $ELSE ' $	write sys$output "Disk doesn't exist"  $ENDIF  S Changing the behaviour of AVL would not change the above logic. But it would allow:    $IF F$GETDVI("$1$DKA200","AVL")  $THEN E $	MOUNT $1$DKA200 CHOCOLATE DISK$CHOCOLATE/dark/density=70%/hazelnuts  $ELSE ' $	write sys$output "Disk not available"  $ENDIF   Which is much simpler/cleaner.    M Granted, with the engineers busy with the unwanted port to IA64, I guess they 1 don't have time to deal with such mundane issues.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 16:49:52 -0500  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>0 Subject: Re: F$GETDVI ("AVL") in an IF statement5 Message-ID: <1030105164149.1371F-100000@Ives.egh.com>   # On Fri, 3 Jan 2003, JF Mezei wrote:    > Brian Tillman wrote: > N > > Checking to see if a device is available is identical to checking the freeP > > blocks.  The "available" attribute is, I believe, stored in the UCB.  If theJ > > device doesn't exist, there's no UCB to check, so F$GETDVI errors withJ > > "NOSUCHDEV", just like a SHOW DEVICE of the non-existent device would. > P > Well, in the TCPIP$STARTUP procedure, it checks to see if BG0: is mounted, andK > it has to check if it exists first to prevent the error. Your description Y > explains well the logic behind, but from the user point of view, it isn't as "logical".  > P > I think that F$GETDVI items that return true of false should just return false! > instead of generating an error.  > O > Is  BG0: mounted ? Yes, or No. If BG0: doesn't exist, then it is stll correct " > to state that it is not mounted. > K > Mounted and available should behave as EXIST in the case where the device ! > doesn't exist. Just my opinion.   E By this logic, they would also have to go through all the codes which H return numbers or strings and decide what is the correct value to returnD for them for non-existant devices.  How many blocks?  How many free?  B Can you see the command file or program that checks for sufficient= free blocks and returns "No room on disk" if you make a typo,  instead of "NOSUCHDEV"?   / What should it return for "ACPTYP" or "VOLNAM"?    --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 16:21:30 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> 0 Subject: Re: F$GETDVI ("AVL") in an IF statement' Message-ID: <3E18AFEA.A444C299@fsi.net>    "Alan E. Feldman" wrote: > [snip] > You can look at it this way: > A > JF's view: There is no device with that name that is available.  > F > Dachtera's view: There is no device with that name, so you can't ask > questions about it.  > 8 > The lexical function F$GETDVI assumes the latter view. >  > OK?   A In an earlier post, it was also noted that it is the PROGRAMMER'S F responsibility to determine whether an action is valid or not, not the o.s.'s.   G Another example: In a machine with 64K of memory, how should the system E respond when a program requests the value of location 65537(decimal)? E The answer, of course, is that the program must first check to see if H the location exists in physical memory before attempting to retrieve the value currently stored there.   H In simile modo, it is up to the program to determine whether examining aF device is valid before attempting to do so. Expecting that the o.s. orA some related service will do that for you is, I maintain, a brash  assumption.   A That's pretty much where I'm at: take responsibility for your OWN 	 actions.    B A very politically incorrect position, I grant you - but it's what# c.o.v. has come to expect from DJD.    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jan 2003 18:08:57 -0800 . From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)0 Subject: Re: F$GETDVI ("AVL") in an IF statement= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0301051808.7e8ffbcf@posting.google.com>   g JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3E18794C.4FFC09FD@vl.videotron.ca>...  > "Alan E. Feldman" wrote:F > > Re the freeblocks question: You can say that a device that doesn't1 > > exist has zero free blocks. That makes sense.  > O > No, that doesn't make sense. You are then reporting a quantitative answer for H > a device that doesn't exist instead of signaling that the device isn't( > available/exist/mounted/disk/whatever.  F Just how can a device that doesn't exist have any free blocks? OTOH, a unicorn has only one horn.  F Oh, this is ridiculous. I'm clicking Post Message and am done with it.  O > Unless freeblocks could report a value (negative ?) that clearly indicates an J > error (device not mounted, nonexistant , not disk based etc), you cannotP > respond with a value. If you respond with 0 blocks, you have no way of knowingM > whether that is a real answer or just a default answer because the value is  > not available.  ? If the device doesn't exist, there is no real value that is not 
 available.  O > But for question of whether the device can be mounted or not (AVL), reporting  > FALSE doesn't mislead anyone.   F Well, it would mislead Mr. Dachtera, no? And some might expect that ifE it reported FALSE, then they should be able to make it available with 3 SET DEVICE/AVAILABLE. Those people would be misled.   A OTOH, I haven't worked with clusters in a while, so I am not very E familiar with how device exist, appear, are or are not availalbe on a , cluster as nodes join and leave the cluster.  E Even so, if a device does not exist on a system, then one can take an A arbitrary device and put it on the system with that name, via the F cluster or whatever. So there are a number of different answers to no. of freeblocks.   P > If the engineers were to change the behaviour such as "AVL" would return FALSEJ > when the device doesn't exist (instead of generating an error), would it" > affect any existing procedures ?  C A procedure that assumes the device exists and then attempts to use < SET DEVICE/AVAILABLE to make it available would be affected.   > if currently, you have:  > % > $IF F$GETDVI("$1$DKA200:","EXISTS")  > $THEN " > $	IF F$GETDVI("$1$DKA200","AVL") > $	THENH > $		MOUNT $1$DKA200 CHOCOLATE DISK$CHOCOLATE/dark/density=70%/hazelnuts > $	ELSE5 > $		write sys$output "Disk exists but not available" 	 > $	ENDIF  > $ELSE ) > $	write sys$output "Disk doesn't exist"  > $ENDIF > U > Changing the behaviour of AVL would not change the above logic. But it would allow:  > ! > $IF F$GETDVI("$1$DKA200","AVL")  > $THEN G > $	MOUNT $1$DKA200 CHOCOLATE DISK$CHOCOLATE/dark/density=70%/hazelnuts  > $ELSE ) > $	write sys$output "Disk not available"  > $ENDIF >   > Which is much simpler/cleaner.  F I offerred you an alternative which you have not commented on. Here it	 is again:   
 $ JFAVAIL = 0 & $ IF (F$GETDVI("disk","EXISTS") THEN -&       JFAVAIL = F$GETDVI("disk","AVL") $ IF (JFAVAIL) $ THEN $     ! ok to mount it $ ELSE+ $     ! handle device that can't be mounted  $ ENDIF   O > Granted, with the engineers busy with the unwanted port to IA64, I guess they 3 > don't have time to deal with such mundane issues.    Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 22:38:23 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>0 Subject: Re: F$GETDVI ("AVL") in an IF statement/ Message-ID: <3E18EC1D.43C3784B@vl.videotron.ca>    "Alan E. Feldman" wrote:H > Well, it would mislead Mr. Dachtera, no? And some might expect that ifG > it reported FALSE, then they should be able to make it available with 5 > SET DEVICE/AVAILABLE. Those people would be misled.    ok, fair point.   N However, existing code would have to have the test for EXISTS already to avoidI AVL from causing the command procedure to bombing out. However, code that I would rely on ON ERROR to branch to code in case the device doesn't exist N after a F$GETDVI(xxx, "AVL") would stop working since an error would no longer
 be triggered.     $ So, let me reformulate the question:  D During a system boot in a cluster, assuming no drive is manually SETJ VOL/NOAVAIL, does testing just for EXISTS ensure that a MOUNT will succeedN (even if it causes mount verif or if drive is already in mount verification on another node) ?    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jan 2003 19:58:22 -0800 . From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)0 Subject: Re: F$GETDVI ("AVL") in an IF statement= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0301051958.2c7eb8d0@posting.google.com>   ` "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3E18AFEA.A444C299@fsi.net>... > "Alan E. Feldman" wrote:
 > > [snip]  > > You can look at it this way: > > C > > JF's view: There is no device with that name that is available.  > > H > > Dachtera's view: There is no device with that name, so you can't ask > > questions about it.  > > : > > The lexical function F$GETDVI assumes the latter view. > >  > > OK?  > C > In an earlier post, it was also noted that it is the PROGRAMMER'S H > responsibility to determine whether an action is valid or not, not the
 > o.s.'s.   D All right. This is getting really ridiculous. I remember in a recentB thread you were bragging about how VMS helps protect the user fromE himself, which was your *complaint* about windows! Make up your mind.   I > Another example: In a machine with 64K of memory, how should the system G > respond when a program requests the value of location 65537(decimal)? G > The answer, of course, is that the program must first check to see if J > the location exists in physical memory before attempting to retrieve the > value currently stored there.    Yeah, yeah, yeah.   J > In simile modo, it is up to the program to determine whether examining aH > device is valid before attempting to do so. Expecting that the o.s. orC > some related service will do that for you is, I maintain, a brash 
 > assumption.   ? No. 1: What is "simile modo"? No. 2, you didn't read my post. I B explained that JF was asking a different question. YOU are brahsly assuming otherwise!   C > That's pretty much where I'm at: take responsibility for your OWN  > actions.      OK. I never disagreed with that.  D > A very politically incorrect position, I grant you - but it's what% > c.o.v. has come to expect from DJD.   3 Please, enough of this "politically correct" krap.         ---- o ----   5 How many horns are there on a unicorn? Is it "one" or D "%SYSTEM-W-NOSUCH, no such animal available"? :-) Here is an example? of a non-existent thing about which we actually can answer such  questions!!! ;-)  A And notice that the error message from F$GETDVI("disk","AVL") for A non-existent devices is "no such device available"!!! So JF, take : heart, it *does* tell you what you want to know ;-). (!!!)  B OK, enough of this nonsense already. I think we all know what eachA other thinks and further discussion is pointless. I'm outta here!    Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 22:33:07 -0500 From: "ICUSC" <sales@hpaq.net>* Subject: Re: Finding info on Alpha Systems/ Message-ID: <v1hu26nkqmuq2e@news.supernews.com>   J My point was that in the last 12 months the Alpha has gone from front pageE website accessibility to being concentrated in the doldrums of PCdom.   K Nearly everything Alpha orientated needs to be found using "search" instead  of simple links   % HP does not want you to buy an Alpha.   L Hell, our business is up over 400% over last year (2001) because most of ourI customers, where in the past were people looking for a "deal", are people I who lost their Compaq direct Rep and couldn't find anyone to sell to them 
 within Compaq    DT  ) "ICUSC" <sales@hpaq.net> wrote in message ( news:v1cp5tpu4mq33@news.supernews.com...0 > Now go to hp.com or compaq.com and try to find > anything about alpha systems > & > For the layman, Alphas DO NOT EXIST. >  > Sad... very sad !  >  > DT >  > -- > Island Computers US Corp.  > 2700 Gregory St, Ste 180 > Savannah GA 31404, USA > Tel: (00) 1 912 447 662  > Fax: (00) 1 912 201 0402 > sales@hpaq.net > www.islandco.com >  >    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 23:52:14 -0500' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> * Subject: RE: Finding info on Alpha SystemsT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660C7F@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>  C >>> My point was that in the last 12 months the Alpha has gone from F front page website accessibility to being concentrated in the doldrums of PCdom.<<<  G Are you saying you think Alpha used to be front page on the web site at  Compaq or even Digital?=20  F Currently, all the various HP servers (Proliant, Alpha, Himalayan) areE on a secondary link called "Servers". There is nothing different here ) between Alpha and other server platforms.   E I think its great that your business is doing well, but I don't think > the web sites have changed significantly with respect to AlphaE information available. At least info that was also there 12-18 months  ago.=20   - >>> HP does not want you to buy an Alpha.<<<<   G Well, fwiw, the internal push I have seen as been to sell HP - whatever > the technology. That is what will keep people employed and the shareholders happy.=20  G Of course, there will always be some OS religion, but you will get that  with any company.    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.! Consulting & Integration Services  Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom-     (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s)        -----Original Message-----& From: ICUSC [mailto:sales@hpaq.net]=20 Sent: January 5, 2003 10:33 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com * Subject: Re: Finding info on Alpha Systems    E My point was that in the last 12 months the Alpha has gone from front C page website accessibility to being concentrated in the doldrums of  PCdom.  C Nearly everything Alpha orientated needs to be found using "search"  instead of simple links   % HP does not want you to buy an Alpha.   H Hell, our business is up over 400% over last year (2001) because most ofF our customers, where in the past were people looking for a "deal", areH people who lost their Compaq direct Rep and couldn't find anyone to sell to them within Compaq    DT  ) "ICUSC" <sales@hpaq.net> wrote in message ( news:v1cp5tpu4mq33@news.supernews.com...0 > Now go to hp.com or compaq.com and try to find > anything about alpha systems > & > For the layman, Alphas DO NOT EXIST. >  > Sad... very sad !  >  > DT >  > -- > Island Computers US Corp.  > 2700 Gregory St, Ste 180 > Savannah GA 31404, USA > Tel: (00) 1 912 447 662  > Fax: (00) 1 912 201 0402 > sales@hpaq.net > www.islandco.com >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 21:00:02 -0800 & From: Greg Cagle <gregc@gregcagle.com>* Subject: Re: Finding info on Alpha Systems/ Message-ID: <v1i3a85lbkpl22@corp.supernews.com>    Main, Kerry wrote:  H > Currently, all the various HP servers (Proliant, Alpha, Himalayan) areG > on a secondary link called "Servers". There is nothing different here + > between Alpha and other server platforms.   @ Don't forget PA-RISC and Itanium servers, which are also on that4 page and are HP servers. And were before the merger.   --  
 Greg Cagle gregc at gregcagle dot com   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 01:03:20 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>* Subject: Re: Finding info on Alpha Systems/ Message-ID: <3E190E0D.51A39945@vl.videotron.ca>    ICUSC wrote:' > HP does not want you to buy an Alpha.   K One need not be a rocket scientists to realise that. They asked Capellas to L Kill off Alpha. They said all new sales would go to PARisc and then to IA64,6 with alpha relegated to supporting existing customers.  M The decision to kill alpha may have been totally stupid (understatement), but J their execution of the decision has been fairly flawless so far, includingL delaying EV7, and potentially preventing benchmarks that would make ridiculeJ of their decision to kill alpha in favour of the slow-as-molasses unwanted IA64 thing.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 12:28:15 -0800 " From: GreyCloud <cumulus@mist.com>K Subject: Re: I just wanted to share a note I sent to the group this morning ( Message-ID: <3E18955F.5300F9A8@mist.com>   John Smith wrote:  >  > > 5 > > Whisker Lickins' Tuna doesn't taste all that bad.  > > :-)  > & > Which wine does one drink with that?   Ripple.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 16:29:11 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> K Subject: Re: I just wanted to share a note I sent to the group this morning ' Message-ID: <3E18B1B7.45B84E49@fsi.net>    Chris Quayle wrote:  >  > Sue Skonetski wrote: > >  > >  From: Skonetski, Susan - > > Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 10:15 AM  > > To: Skonetski, Susan > > O > > This may not translate so well in other countries but it is very true here. F > > There are good and bad sides to everything but here is my 2 cents. > > ) > > remember building forts in the woods?  > > N > > remember packing your peanut butter sandwich (on white bread) and being in5 > > the woods all day and coming in when it was dark?  > > P > > remember your Dad putting gas in the car while smoking?  My dad even cut the > > seatbelts out of our car.  > > ; > > remember A&W root beer in the really thick frosty mugs?  > > J > > everyone wanted to be a space explorer, fireman or a doctor and no one' > > wanted to be an internet executive?  > > F > > Remember when the "Man from Uncle" had the really cool technology? > >  > >  Warm Regards, > >  > > sue  > >  > J > And despite Vietnam etc, remember when there was so much to admire aboutE > America, such as pursuit of excellence, zero defects and the can do * > attitude that first put men on the moon. > I > Now, it seems like gangsters have taken over the circus. Jackboots, pc, G > crypto fascism and too many people in power who can't hear the rhythm  > for the noise of the drum...  0 Comprehensive, but still an understatement, IMO.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 01:58:26 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> K Subject: Re: I just wanted to share a note I sent to the group this morning H Message-ID: <6p5S9.177794$E_.93462@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  / "GreyCloud" <cumulus@mist.com> wrote in message " news:3E18955F.5300F9A8@mist.com... > John Smith wrote:  > >  > > > 7 > > > Whisker Lickins' Tuna doesn't taste all that bad. 	 > > > :-)  > > ( > > Which wine does one drink with that? > 	 > Ripple.   E Ah yes, of course. With a nose of black boot polish and the finish of 
 pure acetone.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 20:49:24 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> K Subject: Re: I just wanted to share a note I sent to the group this morning ' Message-ID: <3E18EEB4.FBD771F3@fsi.net>    John Smith wrote:  > 1 > "GreyCloud" <cumulus@mist.com> wrote in message $ > news:3E18955F.5300F9A8@mist.com... > > John Smith wrote:  > > >  > > > > 9 > > > > Whisker Lickins' Tuna doesn't taste all that bad.  > > > > :-)  > > > * > > > Which wine does one drink with that? > >  > > Ripple.  > G > Ah yes, of course. With a nose of black boot polish and the finish of  > pure acetone.   5 Oh, come on! I haven't sniffed that stuff in YEARS!!!    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 21:00:00 -0800 " From: GreyCloud <cumulus@mist.com>K Subject: Re: I just wanted to share a note I sent to the group this morning ( Message-ID: <3E190D50.CC00DCE4@mist.com>   "David J. Dachtera" wrote: >  > John Smith wrote:  > > 3 > > "GreyCloud" <cumulus@mist.com> wrote in message & > > news:3E18955F.5300F9A8@mist.com... > > > John Smith wrote:  > > > > 	 > > > > > ; > > > > > Whisker Lickins' Tuna doesn't taste all that bad. 
 > > > > > :-)  > > > > , > > > > Which wine does one drink with that? > > > 
 > > > Ripple.  > > I > > Ah yes, of course. With a nose of black boot polish and the finish of  > > pure acetone.  > 7 > Oh, come on! I haven't sniffed that stuff in YEARS!!!  >   6 Wait until you retire.  No matter what they say, you'd: better have a replacement for your career when you retire.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 01:33:55 -0000 ! From: Z  <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> ' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use? / Message-ID: <v1hn83r8fmpi29@corp.supernews.com>   : Brian Tillman <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> wrote:M : to be simplest.  Who the hell can remember that "rm" equals "delete" unless  : you do it every day?  , It's been 12 mos since I used Unix for work.  1 I have no problem remembering rm (or mv, cp, etc)    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 01:34:49 -0000 ! From: Z  <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> ' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use? / Message-ID: <v1hn9pg1mud73f@corp.supernews.com>   ) Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote: H : Typng ^Z does not put anything in the background, it suspends the job.G : One can then type "bg" to put it in the background, but otehrwise, it  : is not still running.     My bad.  I used the wrong terms.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 02:00:40 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> ' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use? K Message-ID: <cr5S9.203726$F2h1.163095@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   - "Z" <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> wrote in message ) news:v1hn83r8fmpi29@corp.supernews.com... < > Brian Tillman <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> wrote:? > : to be simplest.  Who the hell can remember that "rm" equals  "delete" unless  > : you do it every day? > . > It's been 12 mos since I used Unix for work. > 3 > I have no problem remembering rm (or mv, cp, etc)     < It's funny how the stupid things tend to stick with you. :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 22:56:08 +0100 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> ( Subject: Marvel talks at The Inquirer...' Message-ID: <3E18A9F8.799F06DC@aaa.com>   ( http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=7034   The headlines :    "HP suppressing Alpha Marvel  benchmarks in favour of Intel  Itanic   !  EV7 runs at a Devilish speed..."    Enjoy! Jan-Erik Sderholm.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 19:10:04 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>, Subject: Re: Marvel talks at The Inquirer.../ Message-ID: <3E18BB39.4301FC4B@vl.videotron.ca>    Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:  > "HP suppressing Alpha Marvel  >  benchmarks in favour of Intel	 >  Itanic   P Will Intel be supressing 8086 performance benchmarks until IA64 becomes faster ?  I Hopefully, one customer wsho buys a marvel will agree to have it used for L benchmarks which will be published, unless of course, the purchase contractsB with HP will prevent customers from making any benchmarks public.   N HP would be shooting itself in the foot and gonads if it really does intent toF hide EV7 performance. Just at a time when HP was starting to look moreN credible with its non-wintel products, this story kills all credibility and HPG will have to start from scratch trying to convicne customers that it is  serious about serious systems.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 20:11:17 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> , Subject: Re: Marvel talks at The Inquirer...' Message-ID: <3E18E5C5.54A18BE2@fsi.net>    JF Mezei wrote:  >  > Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:   > > "HP suppressing Alpha Marvel" > >  benchmarks in favour of Intel > >  Itanic  > R > Will Intel be supressing 8086 performance benchmarks until IA64 becomes faster ? > K > Hopefully, one customer wsho buys a marvel will agree to have it used for N > benchmarks which will be published, unless of course, the purchase contractsC > with HP will prevent customers from making any benchmarks public.  > P > HP would be shooting itself in the foot and gonads if it really does intent to > hide EV7 performance.   E Hhmmm... Virtually assures that it's EXACTLY what they do! I've never H seen a bunch so totally into foot/gonad self-shooting! They're not happy unless they do exactly that!  2 > Just at a time when HP was starting to look moreP > credible with its non-wintel products, this story kills all credibility and HPI > will have to start from scratch trying to convicne customers that it is   > serious about serious systems.  H ...but it's not! How can it be? Alpha all but vanishes? Other non-itanicH stuff suppressed? How can anyone even THINK about taking them seriously?   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 16:32:23 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> + Subject: Re: New Marvel machines? New news? ' Message-ID: <3E18B276.E8114FF8@fsi.net>    Michael Unger wrote: > & > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote: > 	 > > [...]  > > 9 > > Whomever administers the web site ought to change the : > > Industriestandardserver link to read 'Wintel Servers'. > A > As far as I know Compaq and HP had and "The New HP" have strong F > relations with Intel and Microsoft, so using the expression "Wintel"E > (considered pejorative by most readers) would probably call lawyers  > into action. >  > > If that's the / > > 'standard' the industry aspires to, sheesh!  > > > I suppose the current industry directions are (1) "Lower the( > standards!" and (2) "Make it cheaper!" > 6 > Intel and Microsoft set the "standards", don't they?  @ In quotes, yes - the de facto standards. Meanwhile, the officialD standards-making bodies labour on oblivious to the futility of their efforts.   -- e David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/I   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jan 2003 15:23:04 -0800 ( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)! Subject: Re: Purveyor for OpenVMSt= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0301051523.1e27e6fb@posting.google.com>n  a Daniel & Hezra Moore <moore@redriverok.com> wrote in message news:<3E1870B6.5BCCB069@sosu.edu>...d > Greetings! > J >   We have upgraded our VMS to 7.3-1. Some of our user accounts that wereG > previously working via the web are not able to authenticate using the = > sample_auth.dll provided with purveyor 2.1. They can log in J > interactively fine and a show proc/rights verifies that they are getting > the correct identifiers. > I >   I have found one other person on the planet with the same issue usinglI > VMS 7.2-1. Users at that site are able to simply put a space at the endrG > of their username and it works. Users at that site with problems haver' > exactly 8 characters in the username.? > G >   Here is a link to the sample DLL provided by process web server. At.H > least we have the source code to the DLL, and hopefully we can fix the > problem there. > 3 > http://vms.process.com/~help/helpapirtl.html#fig76 >  >   Any hints? > 	 > Thanks,V >  > DanO  D no, but I can give you a link to a company that rewrote our auth dllC and I know they can help you on this ... contact them, but rememberMF they are on New Zealand time, so call around 4-5 est Sun thru Thur ...  3 http://www.sss.co.nz/software/purveyor/purveyor.htma   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 20:42:00 +0100-6 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>& Subject: Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth) Message-ID: <3E188A88.5000504@vajhoej.dk>    Chris Hedley wrote: > >                      I think we've covered the water-vs-air-? > cooling thing before and the conclusion was inconclusive.  :)o   ????   9000 was air-cooled.  6 That was why the aquarious was such a good code-name !   Arne   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 20:21:38 +0000/ From: cbh@ieya.co.REMOVE_THIS.uk (Chris Hedley)m& Subject: Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth) Message-ID: <i44ava.ol2.ln@teabag.cbhnet>o  , According to Arne Vajhj  <arne@vajhoej.dk>: > 9000 was air-cooled. > 8 > That was why the aquarious was such a good code-name !  ? From what I'd heard (and there were lots of things to be heard, > which ones were accurate is anyone's guess!) it was originally< intended to be water (or other liquid) cooled but the design> was changed at some point to use air-cooling instead, possibly= causing some reliability problems.  Any truth in that?  Well,l your guess is as good as mine!   Chris. --  O "If the world was an orange it would be like much too small, y'know?" Neil, '84x7   Currently playing: Sing-Sing - "The Joy Of Sing-Sing"iN   http://www.chrishedley.com  My stuff, including genealogy, other things, etc   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 20:38:41 -0000; From: "Rupert Pigott" <darkboo-remove-this-ng.@hotmail.com>i& Subject: Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth4 Message-ID: <ava54f$ir6$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk>  < "Chris Hedley" <cbh@ieya.co.REMOVE_THIS.uk> wrote in message# news:i44ava.ol2.ln@teabag.cbhnet...i. > According to Arne Vajhj  <arne@vajhoej.dk>: > > 9000 was air-cooled. > > : > > That was why the aquarious was such a good code-name ! >aA > From what I'd heard (and there were lots of things to be heard,d@ > which ones were accurate is anyone's guess!) it was originally> > intended to be water (or other liquid) cooled but the design@ > was changed at some point to use air-cooling instead, possibly? > causing some reliability problems.  Any truth in that?  Well,   > your guess is as good as mine!  < Come to think of it did DEC ever do a liquid cooled machine,! including 1-offs and prototypes ?o  : I know they did some funky heatsinks and heatpipes but I'd# count those as air-cooling still...    Cheers,l Rupert   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 15:54:11 -0500  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>& Subject: Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth5 Message-ID: <1030105153527.1371E-100000@Ives.egh.com>i  9 On Sat, 4 Jan 2003, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= wrote:t   > Zane H. Healy wrote:K > > The only 'notoriety' for hardware failures that I can think of would beeP > > related to disk drives.  Consider how infamous the RD53 is, and I believe atJ > > least one model of the RA8x is noted for problem with the drive heads. > > P > > Now the VAXen themselves, even the ones that suffer from problematic drives, > > are pretty much rock solid.m > 6 > I am pretty sure you are thinking about the RA81's ! > B > But they were older than the 6000 series. RA81's and RA82's were; > used by the various 8000 systems. 6000 series used RA92's- > (and probably other RA9x's). >  > Arne  < Actually, RA9x's were a little later than 6000's.  Our first= (customer) 6000 sites used mostly RA82's and a few RA60's forg= people who couldn't get their heads around non-removable disk  drives.   > I'm pretty sure it was our 3rd&4th 6000 that came with RA90's.; I was at a meeting at the customer site, with the DEC salest? people, and we were hammering out how many RA82's we needed and A were bemoaning the number of KDB50's required (was that the name,iA BI-based SDI controllers?) when the DEC-droids said "Since you'vek= all signed nondisclosure agreements, I can tell you about our < new disks that will be announced next week."  So it ended up> being one KDB50 and 4 RA90's on each system.  (I hadn't signed@ any non-disclosure agreement, but I wasn't on c.o.v at the time,& and it was moot the next week anyway!)  = The RA90's, later moved to an HSC95 and joined by many RA92'so< and RZ7x's, actually survived until November, when they were< replaced by some of the 18Gb 15K RPM SCSI disks added to the; existing HSZ80 on the Alpha 4100 that replaced the VAX 6000o= about 5 years ago.  (Actually, they weren't used for much fors; the last several years, just a few random files that no oneE had bothered to move.)  8 The VAX 6000's grew over the years from single processor= VAX 6200's to 4 or 5 processor VAX 6600's.  (These particulare7 6000's probably started life as 6300's or 6400's.)  TheE9 only hard bit on all the in-cabinet upgrades was the timeh? (400->500?) where they had to replace the backplane and memory. 8 Someone in another thread was questioning the utility of< in-cabinet upgrades.  For VAX 6000's, they worked quite well8 and were very popular over the years with our customers.       -- F John Santosm Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 20:30:03 +0000/ From: cbh@ieya.co.REMOVE_THIS.uk (Chris Hedley)-& Subject: Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth) Message-ID: <bk4ava.ol2.ln@teabag.cbhnet>.  9 According to Kelli Halliburton <kelli217@crosswinds.not>:gL > I would LOVE to have a VAXstation 3100 -- they were the systems on which IN > first learned Ixian incantations and lore, at university. I wasn't even a CSL > student, but I signed up for an account on the campus system, and got one.K > (I had heard they were for the use of any student,and it turns out it was'K > true.) I decided that I liked Ultrix pretty well in fairly short order; I J > mean, I had absolutely no experience with any form of Unix. All I had toH > trade on was my knowledge of my own AmigaDOS, which bears a very faint$ > resemblance to Unix, but not much. > N > Anyway, I learned from scratch on Ultrix, and so I got attached to it. Then,C > the university began switching from the VAXstations to HP PA-RISCrM > workstations running HP-UX. It was at this point that I began to appreciate M > the small differences that differentiate the various Unices. I decided thatcM > I didn't like HP-UX very much, mostly because I had to change a lot of termvK > settings, via stty, to get my Amiga's term program to work correctly with * > it. Ultrix worked right out of the gate.  E I could never get on with HP-UX all that well; in fact I never reallysE liked HP systems in general all that much, both hardware and softwarea% seemed a little flimsy for my liking.e  B As for VAXstations, if you're in the US they come up on Ebay for aC fairly nominal amount of cash regularly (although be careful if youHD want to run Ultrix as it only runs on a few models - the 3100 modelsA 30, 38, 40 and 48 are, I think, the only ones which run it; AFAIK-D it's not supported on the 3100 M78 or any of the 4000s)  Outside the@ US they don't appear as often and can get snapped up, so much soA that (shock horror!) I've actually had to order a second-hand one9B from a supplier (here they seem to go for around 100 - 200 for aD 3100 or 4000VLC or 4000/60, depending on the spec, although there're* plenty of rip-offs available out there...)   Chris. -- iO "If the world was an orange it would be like much too small, y'know?" Neil, '84n7   Currently playing: Sing-Sing - "The Joy Of Sing-Sing"aN   http://www.chrishedley.com  My stuff, including genealogy, other things, etc   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 21:46:08 GMTx1 From: jmaynard@thebrain.conmicro.cx (Jay Maynard)t& Subject: Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth: Message-ID: <slrnb1h9su.19u.jmaynard@thebrain.conmicro.cx>  L On Sun, 5 Jan 2003 20:30:03 +0000, Chris Hedley <cbh@ieya.co.REMOVE_THIS.uk> wrote:F >I could never get on with HP-UX all that well; in fact I never reallyF >liked HP systems in general all that much, both hardware and software& >seemed a little flimsy for my liking.  L I've got an HP9000-C120 that I can't seem to get HP-UX 10.20 installed on atK all...it asks for the PS/2 keyboard type, and hangs there, even if I plug akJ PS/2 keyboard into it and try answering from that. Since I want to run the! box headless, that's a real pain.t  G I'd like to have an HP3000, though. I liked MPE once upon a time when I I played with it (in the 1979 timeframe), and wouldn't mind playing with it: again.  C >As for VAXstations, if you're in the US they come up on Ebay for a D >fairly nominal amount of cash regularly (although be careful if youE >want to run Ultrix as it only runs on a few models - the 3100 modelsaB >30, 38, 40 and 48 are, I think, the only ones which run it; AFAIKE >it's not supported on the 3100 M78 or any of the 4000s)  Outside theoA >US they don't appear as often and can get snapped up, so much sosB >that (shock horror!) I've actually had to order a second-hand oneC >from a supplier (here they seem to go for around 100 - 200 for aaE >3100 or 4000VLC or 4000/60, depending on the spec, although there'rex+ >plenty of rip-offs available out there...)t  I I got my last couple of 4000-105As for $150 each. I've also got a 4000-60nE with a bad power supply, and have had a few others. Never ran Ultrix,hG though; I did some work on NetBSD, and mainly run VMS. (That's the only * reason I'm an Encompass associate member.)   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 19:13:25 -0400t0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>& Subject: Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth/ Message-ID: <3E18BC02.1270F58F@vl.videotron.ca>e   Rupert Pigott wrote:> > Come to think of it did DEC ever do a liquid cooled machine,# > including 1-offs and prototypes ?a  L A DEC water cooler for DEC-office suite of products  ? (DEC-desk, DEC-chair,L DECarpet, DEClamp, DECwater-cooler, DECpaper, DECpen, DECeraser, DECstapler,* DECdrawer, DECfiling-cabinet and ALL-IN-1.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 14:26:46 -0500' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>h. Subject: RE: VMS in Vegas (Was [OT] Lotteries)T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660C7E@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Alan,   D Re: Customers using OpenVMS ..Keep in mind that it is really, really< tough (and very time consuming) to get Cust's to do externalH testimonials on ANY platform as there is often not a whole lot in it forD them. It is also viewed by some Cust's that it potentially increases@ their security risk i.e.. it tells hackers what OS / platforms /' applications they are using internally.L   Having said that, check out:0 http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/brochures/  H In addition to the Compaq formatted ones, this site also has pointers to* some recent HP formatted ones as well e.g.H http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/brochures/commerzbank/commerzbank. pdf C http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/brochures/indiarr/indiarr.pdf$E http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/brochures/nz_steel/nz_steel.pdfT  3 Other samples of recent press releases and OpenVMS:o  1 http://www.wallstreetsystems.com/news/hpbench.htm   H http://domino.omgroup.com/www/ombulletinboard.nsf/21d74cf5a8def809c1256aH d200411a1f/baf61a6443a19e6480256c6f00524aa2!OpenDocument (one url - just love Lotus Notes...)  ( http://www.coda.com/newsroom/news102.asp  4 http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/02jul02a.htm   RegardsS    
 Kerry Main Senior Consultanta Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.! Consulting & Integration Servicesf Voice: 613-592-4660t Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom-     (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s)E       -----Original Message-----8 From: Alan E. Feldman [mailto:spamsink2001@yahoo.com]=20 Sent: January 5, 2003 1:10 PMd To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comn. Subject: Re: VMS in Vegas (Was [OT] Lotteries)    ; JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in messaget+ news:<3E174FD9.6AA982F4@vl.videotron.ca>...c > "Main, Kerry" wrote:I > > We also get win reports internally where Ambassadors are involved,=20 8 > > but for obvious reasons, those are HP internal only. >=20I > That is the problem. "HP internal".  HP really needs to convince VMS=20vI > customers to participate in VMS marketing by allowing their names to=20D! > be mentioned in press releases.t >=20J > If HP has no problem flounting Tandem at very strategic sites such as=20H > NASDAQ, then it shoudl also have no problems flounting VMS at other=20 > strategic sites.   Good point!=20  H > It should be easy to convince new customers of the value of mantioning  H > this new win since giving VMS the image of positive movement is key to  H > attracting more applications, developpers etc which in the end will=20 > benefit that customer. >=20( > Where there is a will, there is a way. >=20; > It would go a long way towards dispelling the rumours of:e
 > 	-VMS dyingd' > 	-HP not intyerested in marketing VMSe >=20B > if HP were to coax its VMS customers to agree to flaunt those=20 > installations.   Well put.=20  
     --- o ---c  E Yikes! Would VMS customers be embarrassed if they admit that they useaD VMS? I don't see any other reason if companies freely admit they use" other operating systems! Except...  H It still *could* be an illusion caused by statistics. What percentage ofF companies freely let us know what OS's they are using? What percentageB of non-VMS customers? What percentage of VMS customers? Since mostG places are non-VMS, assuming that the percentages are the same we wouldvG still hear more about non-VMS sites since there are more of them. Well,i this could be part of it.    Does anyone know?   B If they *are* embarrassed, this needs to be fixed tout de suite!!!   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman   G Stay tuned! We'll be right back with more commercials. But first, a fewp minutes of the program.h   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 16:43:56 -0600g1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>h. Subject: Re: VMS in Vegas (Was [OT] Lotteries)' Message-ID: <3E18B52C.27D8BBD6@fsi.net>    "Main, Kerry" wrote: >  > Alan,u > F > Re: Customers using OpenVMS ..Keep in mind that it is really, really> > tough (and very time consuming) to get Cust's to do externalJ > testimonials on ANY platform as there is often not a whole lot in it forF > them. It is also viewed by some Cust's that it potentially increasesB > their security risk i.e.. it tells hackers what OS / platforms /) > applications they are using internally.   G As I have stated repeatedly, it is *NOT* , repeat __N_O_T__ necessary -mD or desirable, generally speaking - to identify individual customers.  D A simple statement of, "last month, we sold x new VMS licenses for aC total $x, y new ALpha machines for a total of $y dollars, and z newtH support contracts for a total of $z" would not only toot VMS's horn, butF it leaves no clue as to who bought what through which channel/partner.  F There is no reasonable justification for not issuing such information,B especially given that VMS has complained here in the person of SueA Skonetski and others regarding the negativity expressed about the"5 apparent apathy of VMS Mgt. toward it's own products.e  D The power to stop the negativity lies solely with VMS - no one else.G Anyone who believes otherwise should immediately report to their shrinka for psychological evaluation.!   --   David J. Dachterah dba DJE Systemsr http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 19:29:09 -0400h0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>. Subject: Re: VMS in Vegas (Was [OT] Lotteries)/ Message-ID: <3E18BFB1.6BD4F574@vl.videotron.ca>    "David J. Dachtera" wrote:F > A simple statement of, "last month, we sold x new VMS licenses for aE > total $x, y new ALpha machines for a total of $y dollars, and z newvJ > support contracts for a total of $z" would not only toot VMS's horn, butH > it leaves no clue as to who bought what through which channel/partner.  M That is dangerous if the numbers aren't impressive. It is much better to have J a more or less constant stream of press releases announcing individual newH accounts to keep VMS in the limelight and show that it is still selling.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 20:07:29 -0600r1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>t. Subject: Re: VMS in Vegas (Was [OT] Lotteries)' Message-ID: <3E18E4E1.21B59F38@fsi.net>a   JF Mezei wrote:s >  > "David J. Dachtera" wrote:H > > A simple statement of, "last month, we sold x new VMS licenses for aG > > total $x, y new ALpha machines for a total of $y dollars, and z newaL > > support contracts for a total of $z" would not only toot VMS's horn, butJ > > it leaves no clue as to who bought what through which channel/partner. > 5 > That is dangerous if the numbers aren't impressive.m  A What constitutes "impressive"? Low quantity, high value? Moderate3 quantity, moderate value?K   > It is much better to havejL > a more or less constant stream of press releases announcing individual newJ > accounts to keep VMS in the limelight and show that it is still selling.  C That's exactly what everyone argues canNOT be done: customers valueiE their secrecy, for whatever reason. Some don't want their competitiveiE edge exposed ("Wow! They invested in VMS and Alpha? We'll never catch E 'em now!"). Others don't want to get laughed right out of the countrypC club ("You dumped how much on THAT antiquated, legacy stuff? Are yat nuts??!!").t   --   David J. Dachterat dba DJE Systemsr http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/a   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jan 2003 18:21:57 -0800e. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman). Subject: Re: VMS in Vegas (Was [OT] Lotteries)= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0301051821.17ff8345@posting.google.com>s   "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> wrote in message news:<BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660C7E@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>...a > Alan,e > F > Re: Customers using OpenVMS ..Keep in mind that it is really, really> > tough (and very time consuming) to get Cust's to do externalJ > testimonials on ANY platform as there is often not a whole lot in it forF > them. It is also viewed by some Cust's that it potentially increasesB > their security risk i.e.. it tells hackers what OS / platforms /) > applications they are using internally.o >  > Having said that, check out:2 > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/brochures/$ [... long list of refs. omitted ...]  < Good points. However, I wasn't saying they were *definitely*B embarrassed by it. I only initially said that and then immediatelyF offerred a totally different reason as to why we don't hear much aboutA companies using VMS outside of this newsgroup and similar venues.0  C Actually, I was at a VMS symposium last year in NYC and there was aa> bank who had offices at WTC that showed us how VMS saved theirB business after the attack. They had nothing but good things to say
 about VMS.   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman   sC Stay tuned! We'll be right back with more commercials. But first, a  few minutes of the program.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 22:49:22 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>. Subject: Re: VMS in Vegas (Was [OT] Lotteries)/ Message-ID: <3E18EEB0.9AA1ED2E@vl.videotron.ca>4  L While watching a documentary about spies made by a bad robot, I was inspired by a commercial...  L What VMS really needs is to get Victoria's Secrets to buy lots of alphas andM VMS machines. That would enable HP to make claims about how Victoria's SecretaE is able to always ensure their products fit perfectly etc etc becausel Victoria's Secret runs on VMS.  K In other words, get a brand that is widely recognized (at least in the USA)i7 and very hip to adopt VMS and VMS would become popular.f  M "While Windows caused an aircraft carrier to go down, VMS keeps everything upa at Victoria's Secret"w  H And I still think they should get Trojans custom made with some VMS logoK imprinted on the condoms with the tag line "Always up when you need it" and 2 distribute those to university students for free.)   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 22:22:29 +0100t4 From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr>' Subject: Re: XV picture editor thoughtss& Message-ID: <3E18A215.5030908@Free.fr>  P Fixed in version 3.10a available from http://www-pi.physics.uiowa.edu/~dyson/xv/& (latest version is dated 14-jan-2002).  Q For example sys$sysroot:[sysmgr] becomes now sysmgr/ and the SAVE function works r/ fine. Thanks to Rick Dison, the VMS maintainer.   ' MAKE_XV.COM latest history entries are:   ( $!  Updated: 16-APR-2000   by Rick DysonJ $!  Updated: 11-JAN-2002   by Malcolm MacArthur  Check Motif version priorK $!                                               to compilation in order to-G $!                                               select the appropriatesK $!                                               functions to find the rooto; $!                                               window ID.h   D.     > Didier Morandi a crit:n > H >> I successfully installed John Bradley's XV picture editor, available / >> from the FREEWARE CD 4 in directory [XV310A]- >>J >> All features worked fine so far, except the SAVE function. The default H >> directory name in the SAVE window has a "/" appended which obviously D >> causes a DCL syntax error when trying to register a picture with E >> another name. I found no way to edit the default directory string.o >>H >> Also, I did not find the way to tell the SAVE window to put the file + >> elsewhere than in the default directory.s >  >  > K > I checked the source. The relevant module is XV.C. Looks like there is a  I > #IFNDEF VMS which does not execute line 1913, but as I do not know C...e   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 16:30:07 -0600b1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>g4 Subject: Re: [OT] Lotteries (was Re: Happy New Year)' Message-ID: <3E18B1EF.267F2042@fsi.net>a   Bill Gunshannon wrote: > + > In article <wGh3OhUIMhMX@elias.decus.ch>, 5 >         p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) writes:o > >n > >>F > > I know a lot of people play it for that faint chance that it liftsB > > them out of a life of poverty. It is IMNSHO a tax on the poor. > 0 > I had always heard it was a tax on the stupid.   ...albeit voluntary.   --   David J. Dachteraa dba DJE Systemsh http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/c   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 01:24:18 GMTi# From: ualski <ualski@earthlink.net>u4 Subject: Re: [OT] Lotteries (was Re: Happy New Year), Message-ID: <3E18DABA.B694B8D@earthlink.net>   Paul Sture wrote:. > R > In article <3E14AC1F.7050204@rdrop.com>, Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com> writes:C > Indeed. Richard Branson tried bidding for the UK contract when it I > last came for for renewal, proposing M$ systems as a replacement, would- > you believe. > J > Fortunately for VMS, he lost that bid, but had he won, I'm sure it wouldK > have provided plenty of entertainment for those of us who know better :-)6  M Does anyone know what sorts of reviews of the system and application softwaresI were required of the winner? (of the contract!). Over in comp.risks thereiR was some discussion of electronic voting machines that are essentially magic boxesQ because the vendor prohibited the customer from "looking inside," thereby forcingsN the customer to trust the machines to work properly. The risk is obvious thereQ and without examining the source code and possibly parts of the operating system, , lotteries face problems of a similar nature.  O Not that I've kept an eye out for it but I have not heard of Microsoft allowinggQ anyone to examine their source code. On the other hand, DEC was very accomodatingsM in circumstances where such actions allowed all involved reduce their anxietyi2 levels. The privilege still cost money, of course.   -- Aaron Sliwinski   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.011 ************************