0 INFO-VAX	Thu, 09 Jan 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 17      Contents: A few really simple questions ! RE: A few really simple questions ! Re: A few really simple questions ! Re: A few really simple questions ! RE: A few really simple questions ! Re: assembly/disassembly on vms ?  assembly/disassembly on vms ? ! Re: assembly/disassembly on vms ? ! Re: assembly/disassembly on vms ? ! Re: assembly/disassembly on vms ? ! Re: assembly/disassembly on vms ? ! Re: assembly/disassembly on vms ?  Re: backup problems..(newbie)  Re: backup problems..(newbie)  Re: backup problems..(newbie)  Re: backup problems..(newbie)  Re: backup problems..(newbie)  Re: Boot Contest change  Re: Boot Contest change  Re: Boot Contest change  Re: Boot Contest change  Re: Boot Contest change  Re: Boot Contest change  Re: Boot Contest change  Re: Boot Contest change ' Re: Callable mail oddity (999 char max) ' Re: Callable mail oddity (999 char max) ' Re: Callable mail oddity (999 char max) - Con-Dist info on the web - keep for reference 1 Re: Con-Dist info on the web - keep for reference 4 Re: Demise of VMS (and most other operating systems)4 Re: Demise of VMS (and most other operating systems)4 Re: Demise of VMS (and most other operating systems)' Re: F$GETDVI ("AVL") in an IF statement ' Re: F$GETDVI ("AVL") in an IF statement ' Re: F$GETDVI ("AVL") in an IF statement 5 Firmware Update and VMS upgrade chanded device names. 9 Re: Firmware Update and VMS upgrade chanded device names. P Re: FYI - CERT Advisory - Network device drivers reuse old frame buffer  data to) Re: How to use Mozilla V1.0 for news/mail ) Re: How to use Mozilla V1.0 for news/mail = Re: HSG-80 firmware, version 8.7-1F... anybody installed yet? = Re: HSG-80 firmware, version 8.7-1F... anybody installed yet? = RE: HSG-80 firmware, version 8.7-1F... anybody installed yet? = Re: HSG-80 firmware, version 8.7-1F... anybody installed yet? B Re: I just wanted to share a note I sent to the group this morning' Independent VMS crash analysis service.  Re: is VMS really easy to use?P Re: JF and backporting features (was: Re: Machine checks not always  hardware fa# Looks like AMD has deep pockets now ' Re: Looks like AMD has deep pockets now ' Re: Looks like AMD has deep pockets now ' Re: Looks like AMD has deep pockets now ' Re: Looks like AMD has deep pockets now # Re: Marvel talks at The Inquirer... # Re: Marvel talks at The Inquirer...  Net:SSLeay Perl module for VMS? " Re: New Marvel machines? New news?" Re: New Marvel machines? New news?4 Re: OpenVMS BACKUP --> Restore in Windows NT / Linux4 Re: OpenVMS BACKUP --> Restore in Windows NT / Linux Re: OpenVMS VAX Hobbyist Kits > Re: OT (sadly) Opteron servers preparing to hit the real world> Re: OT (sadly) Opteron servers preparing to hit the real world& Re: Recovering SYSTEM password when...& Re: Recovering SYSTEM password when... Re: SMTP mail: SFF facility  Re: SMTP mail: SFF facility # The Boot Contest page doesn't work.  Re: TN5250 terminal emulation  Traceback and installed images" Re: Traceback and installed images" Re: Traceback and installed images% Re: VMS in Vegas (Was [OT] Lotteries)  Re: VMS Issues Re: VMS Issues Re: VMS Issues Re: VMS Issues Re: VMS MIME Re: VMS MIME Why LOGINOUTs don't go away???" Re: Why LOGINOUTs don't go away???" Re: Why LOGINOUTs don't go away???+ Re: [OT] Lotteries (was Re: Happy New Year) + Re: [OT] Lotteries (was Re: Happy New Year) # [OT] someone knows mindleaders.com?  [ot] Windows "defense" Re: [ot] Windows "defense"  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 14:30:01 -0800   From: jasper <jasper@never.tell>& Subject: A few really simple questions8 Message-ID: <479p1v0jv4foflihatijsu8vbus2usdd42@4ax.com>  E I today received a dual 533 mhz Alpha 21164 (EV56) processor system.. F Open VMS 7.2-1 is installed. I plan to use VMS eventually, but for nowF I want to install Redhat for Alpha until I can learn some VMS basics.   ? When I boot up the unit goes through the POST and then gives me F a "P00>>>" which I assume is the VMS command prompt. I put the RH diskC in the cdrom but nothing happens. Can someone please tell me what I < need to do to begin installation of the RH? I certainly will appreciate any help proffered. Jim     > -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----A http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! > -----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 14:35:15 -0800$ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>* Subject: RE: A few really simple questions0 Message-ID: <01C2B723.3931AB50@sulfer.icius.com>  B Jasper, I'm not sure about the POO part but the >>> is the Alpha'sA equivalent of the BIOS, known as the console. Your machine is not ! configured to automatically boot.   H The console is an EPROM-based command line interpreter. If you type SHOWE DEV it will list the devices connected to the machine, and I'd expect F the CD ROM to be DKAnnn where the nnn is the SCSI unit number followedC by two zeros. For example, mine is SCSI unit 4, so my CD is DKA400. B Assuming your CD-ROM is Alpha bootable, type "B " followed by yourF CD-ROM drive's device name, hit return, and from there on you're in RH< Linux territory. Hopefully you'll get onscreen instructions.   Shane      -----Original Message-----' From: jasper [mailto:jasper@never.tell] ) Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 2:30 PM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com & Subject: A few really simple questions      E I today received a dual 533 mhz Alpha 21164 (EV56) processor system.. F Open VMS 7.2-1 is installed. I plan to use VMS eventually, but for nowF I want to install Redhat for Alpha until I can learn some VMS basics.   ? When I boot up the unit goes through the POST and then gives me F a "P00>>>" which I assume is the VMS command prompt. I put the RH diskC in the cdrom but nothing happens. Can someone please tell me what I < need to do to begin installation of the RH? I certainly will appreciate any help proffered. Jim     > -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----A http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! > -----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 15:42:34 -0700 + From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> * Subject: Re: A few really simple questions' Message-ID: <3E1CA95A.4070707@MMaz.com>   
 jasper wrote:   F >I today received a dual 533 mhz Alpha 21164 (EV56) processor system..G >Open VMS 7.2-1 is installed. I plan to use VMS eventually, but for now G >I want to install Redhat for Alpha until I can learn some VMS basics.   > @ >When I boot up the unit goes through the POST and then gives meG >a "P00>>>" which I assume is the VMS command prompt. I put the RH disk D >in the cdrom but nothing happens. Can someone please tell me what I= >need to do to begin installation of the RH? I certainly will  >appreciate any help proffered.  >    > L Let me give you my Dual Process Dell desktop in exchange for that system :-)  B All kidding aside, you are not seeing a VMS prompt but rather the I console subsystem...  What you are considering, really makes no sense if  I you ultimately do want to play with VMS, since installing and setting up  A VMS for someone who has never seen it would probably destroy any   interest you might have...  I If all you need is a RH box, grab a cheap PC running at 1.8 Ghz for only  E a couple hundred bucks, you'll never see a performance difference to  H warrant what you are attempting...  Now, and don't get me wrong because D Linux does fill a productive niche, if you want a real OS, one that E never crashes and is extremely secure, then I would suggest that you   dive right into VMS today...   Regards,   Barry    --    @ Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIO   A E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 16:29:03 -0800   From: jasper <jasper@never.tell>* Subject: Re: A few really simple questions8 Message-ID: <8agp1v05a37ja15l3m7fv3t84f5jn1kceh@4ax.com>  7 On Wed, 08 Jan 2003 15:42:34 -0700, "Barry Treahy, Jr."  <Treahy@MMaz.com> wrote:  M >Let me give you my Dual Process Dell desktop in exchange for that system :-)  > C >All kidding aside, you are not seeing a VMS prompt but rather the  J >console subsystem...  What you are considering, really makes no sense if J >you ultimately do want to play with VMS, since installing and setting up B >VMS for someone who has never seen it would probably destroy any  >interest you might have...  > J >If all you need is a RH box, grab a cheap PC running at 1.8 Ghz for only F >a couple hundred bucks, you'll never see a performance difference to I >warrant what you are attempting...  Now, and don't get me wrong because  E >Linux does fill a productive niche, if you want a real OS, one that  F >never crashes and is extremely secure, then I would suggest that you  >dive right into VMS today...   F I thank both of you for prompt and helpful replies. I had also emailedF the fellow I bought the system from and he informed me that the P00>>>F is the normal SRM prompt--whatever that means. But he also informed meC that he had RedHat already installed with VMS in a dual boot setup. C So, I type "b dkb0" for Linux or "bdkb100" for VMS! So, I have both D systems installed and can begin learnig VMS. Thanks for the replies. :-)  Jim     > -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----A http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! > -----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 17:45:10 -0800$ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>* Subject: RE: A few really simple questions0 Message-ID: <01C2B73D.BA8C9A60@sulfer.icius.com>   <Nit_pick_protection> E SRM is a more proper term for what I was referring to as the console.  </Nit_pick_protection>   Shane    -----Original Message-----' From: jasper [mailto:jasper@never.tell] ) Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 4:29 PM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com * Subject: Re: A few really simple questions    7 On Wed, 08 Jan 2003 15:42:34 -0700, "Barry Treahy, Jr."  <Treahy@MMaz.com> wrote:  M >Let me give you my Dual Process Dell desktop in exchange for that system :-)  > C >All kidding aside, you are not seeing a VMS prompt but rather the  J >console subsystem...  What you are considering, really makes no sense if J >you ultimately do want to play with VMS, since installing and setting up B >VMS for someone who has never seen it would probably destroy any  >interest you might have...  > J >If all you need is a RH box, grab a cheap PC running at 1.8 Ghz for only F >a couple hundred bucks, you'll never see a performance difference to I >warrant what you are attempting...  Now, and don't get me wrong because  E >Linux does fill a productive niche, if you want a real OS, one that  F >never crashes and is extremely secure, then I would suggest that you  >dive right into VMS today...   F I thank both of you for prompt and helpful replies. I had also emailedF the fellow I bought the system from and he informed me that the P00>>>F is the normal SRM prompt--whatever that means. But he also informed meC that he had RedHat already installed with VMS in a dual boot setup. C So, I type "b dkb0" for Linux or "bdkb100" for VMS! So, I have both D systems installed and can begin learnig VMS. Thanks for the replies. :-)  Jim     > -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----A http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! > -----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 17:07:15 -0500 ' From: Chris Olive <nospam@raytheon.com> * Subject: Re: assembly/disassembly on vms ?> Message-ID: <4j1T9.249$Z74.1158@dfw-service2.ext.raytheon.com>  
 Dan wrote:8 > I can't remember, but I know there used to be a way toE > take an EXE file on VMS (vax or alpha) and get an assembly language 8 > dump something like dump /asm, but that doesn't exist. > F > barring that, is there a list of opcodes/operands for vms assembler,+ > like to convert a hex dump to assembler ?  >  > Thanks >  > Dan.  : I think you are probably talking about DISM32.  Available:  6 ftp://ftp.process.com/vms-freeware/fileserv/dism32.zip  " Only works on VAX arch. not Alpha.   Chris  -----  Chris Olive  Systems Consultant' Raytheon Technical Services Corporation  Indianapolis, IN  * email: olivec AT indy DOT raytheon DOT com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 16:53:21 -0500  From: Dan <dan@vrx.net> & Subject: assembly/disassembly on vms ?8 Message-ID: <1c7p1vghjn2m1nkgk0daajobf4q31rq2d2@4ax.com>  6 I can't remember, but I know there used to be a way toC take an EXE file on VMS (vax or alpha) and get an assembly language 6 dump something like dump /asm, but that doesn't exist.  D barring that, is there a list of opcodes/operands for vms assembler,) like to convert a hex dump to assembler ?    Thanks   Dan.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 23:29:07 +0100. From: "Jesper Naur" <jesper.naur@post.tele.dk>* Subject: Re: assembly/disassembly on vms ?< Message-ID: <3e1ca587$0$83847$edfadb0f@dtext01.news.tele.dk>  " Dan <dan@vrx.net> wrote in message2 news:1c7p1vghjn2m1nkgk0daajobf4q31rq2d2@4ax.com...8 > I can't remember, but I know there used to be a way toE > take an EXE file on VMS (vax or alpha) and get an assembly language 8 > dump something like dump /asm, but that doesn't exist. > F > barring that, is there a list of opcodes/operands for vms assembler,+ > like to convert a hex dump to assembler ?  >  > Thanks >  > Dan.  A The VMS debugger has a very advanced capability in this area, try    $ run/debug <program>  DBG> SET LANGUAGE MACRO  DBG> SET MODULE/ALL  DBG> E/I @PC DBG> E/I DBG> E/I DBG> E/I  J this will show you the first few disassembled instructions of the program,# it will work both on VAX and Alpha.   L The actual opcodes and operands are completely different for the VAX and forJ the Alpha. There is no such thing as "VMS assembler", VMS is the operatingI system, not the machine! For the VAX, the native machine instructions are K called MACRO32, for the Alpha they are called MACRO64. You should be aware, K that on the Alpha,  there is a compiler which will compile VAX MACRO32 code E into native Alpha machine code. It is however not an assembler in the H traditional sense - it will compile each VAX MACRO32 instruction into anF equivalent sequence of Alpha MACRO64 instructions, this will typically5 result in a substantial number of Alpha instructions!   H VAX architecture, including instruction opcodes and addressing modes - I, found these (perhaps a bit unofficial) links  * http://fakkir.net/~elzubeir/papers/vax.pdf3 http://www.cs.rit.edu/~icss352/document/vax_pkt.pdf     < The similar book for the Alpha architecture can be found at:  L http://www.support.compaq.com/alpha-tools/documentation/current/alpha-archt/ alpha-architecture.pdf     Best regards Jesper Naur    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 22:07:19 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG* Subject: Re: assembly/disassembly on vms ?0 Message-ID: <00A19AC0.DDDD411C@SendSpamHere.ORG>  R In article <1c7p1vghjn2m1nkgk0daajobf4q31rq2d2@4ax.com>, Dan <dan@vrx.net> writes:7 >I can't remember, but I know there used to be a way to D >take an EXE file on VMS (vax or alpha) and get an assembly language7 >dump something like dump /asm, but that doesn't exist.   H There are several utilities which can be used to look at the instruction. stream and give you a mnemonic representation.    E >barring that, is there a list of opcodes/operands for vms assembler, * >like to convert a hex dump to assembler ?  D Look in the freeware archives for DISM32.  It does a REALLY good jobC once you know how to use it.  I used it several years ago to prove  B that a code thief, despite his prevarications that the stolen codeC had been removed, was still selling product containing stolen code. B DISM32 can, if your original code was Macro32, produce output that- is remarkably similar to the original source.    --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 17:20:57 -0500  From: Dan <dan@vrx.net> * Subject: Re: assembly/disassembly on vms ?8 Message-ID: <p09p1vgkgjf1guupq71u1e27a17of0n7q1@4ax.com>  E On Wed, 08 Jan 2003 17:07:15 -0500, Chris Olive <nospam@raytheon.com>  wrote:   >Dan wrote: 9 >> I can't remember, but I know there used to be a way to F >> take an EXE file on VMS (vax or alpha) and get an assembly language9 >> dump something like dump /asm, but that doesn't exist.  >>  G >> barring that, is there a list of opcodes/operands for vms assembler, , >> like to convert a hex dump to assembler ? >>  	 >> Thanks  >>   >> Dan.  > ; >I think you are probably talking about DISM32.  Available:  > 7 >ftp://ftp.process.com/vms-freeware/fileserv/dism32.zip  > # >Only works on VAX arch. not Alpha.  >  >Chris >----- >Chris Olive >Systems Consultant ( >Raytheon Technical Services Corporation >Indianapolis, IN     F No, I clearly remember running something like "dump /asm" on a vax 782 way back when (vms 4.2 ?)  yes eons ago  ) But I'll give that a shot anyhow, thanks.    Dan.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 18:06:15 -0500  From: Dan <dan@vrx.net> * Subject: Re: assembly/disassembly on vms ?8 Message-ID: <6mbp1vsjfkgdu6nb8dn5qo67ear5mndl37@4ax.com>  ( Ok I get this when trying to run dism32-  % -CLI-E-IMAGEFNF, image file not found * HVAX$DKA100:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSLIB]FORRT    
 whats wrong ?    Dan    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 18:05:39 -0500  From: Dan <dan@vrx.net> * Subject: Re: assembly/disassembly on vms ?8 Message-ID: <okbp1v894vcbcjdv5q82d1563eipjo59p5@4ax.com>  0 On Wed, 8 Jan 2003 23:29:07 +0100, "Jesper Naur"! <jesper.naur@post.tele.dk> wrote:   B >The VMS debugger has a very advanced capability in this area, try >  >$ run/debug <program>  > this doesn't work, returns to command prompt with no messages.< and program (possibly) doesn't run, it's hard for me to tell   Dan.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 11:32:38 -0500; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> & Subject: Re: backup problems..(newbie)$ Message-ID: <3e1c52a4$1@news.si.com>  D >Well for the past x million years our VMS systems have been running; >fine. However this year the backup script isn't working...  >  >I get this error..on all tapes  > 8 >%BACKUP-E-FATALERR, fatal error on MKA500:[]BACKUP.BCK; >-SYSTEM-F-PARITY, parity error   J Wierd!  Something similar is happening to us.  (Not on all drives, though, just some.)  --  I Brian Tillman         Internet: Brian.Tillman at smiths-aerospace dot com 5 Smiths Aerospace  Addresses modified to prevent SPAM. @ 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS Replace "at" with "@", "dot" with "." Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991 8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jan 2003 14:23:23 -0600 + From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) & Subject: Re: backup problems..(newbie)3 Message-ID: <BbY$TQ3mPUkL@eisner.encompasserve.org>   b In article <3e1c52a4$1@news.si.com>, "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> writes:E >>Well for the past x million years our VMS systems have been running < >>fine. However this year the backup script isn't working... >>  >>I get this error..on all tapes >>9 >>%BACKUP-E-FATALERR, fatal error on MKA500:[]BACKUP.BCK;   >>-SYSTEM-F-PARITY, parity error > L > Wierd!  Something similar is happening to us.  (Not on all drives, though,
 > just some.)     @ 	I found out two years after the fact... the DWZBees were put in< 	wrong (connected wrong somehow, now I have little detail, I@ 	did not see it , heard about it 2 years later long gone at that 	site).   ? 	This could be cable, connections or bent pins, in other words: D 	hardware related.  For me, service would come out and periodically A 	replace the drives.  I guess after several rounds of tape drive  @ 	replacement, they decided to look closer and stumbled upon the ! 	configuration mix-up (my guess).   D 	The tape drives were TZ89s, very new at the time (5+ years ago) andF 	no, multiple cycles of tape cleaning cartridges would not fix things.F 	And yes, that was always the first question support would ask:  "WhenD 	was the last time you cleaned the tape drive(s)?  When was the lastC 	time you replaced your tape cartridges?  How many cleaning cycles? ? 	Can you try it again for me and call back if you still get the A 	error?"  Yeah, I'll call back... 'cause I know it isn't going to  	fix it.   					Rob   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 17:06:01 -0500  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>& Subject: Re: backup problems..(newbie)6 Message-ID: <1030108170400.25162E-100000@Ives.egh.com>  * On Wed, 8 Jan 2003, Martin Hepworth wrote:   > Carl > H > I cleaned the drive and everything got back to life. We normally do a N > clean once a month (only takes about 30 mins etc backup to an exabyte unit). > J > But the extra clean with a new tape cleaner seemed to have done the job. > 4 > right back to the day job of doing unix admind :-)  C It's that darned VMS.  It breaks so infrequently that when it does,  no onw knows what to do!  :-b        > --   > Martin Hepworth  > Senior Systems Administrator > Solid State Logic Ltd  > +44 (0)1865 842300 >  >  > Carl Perkins wrote: K > > Martin Hepworth <martinh@ATsolid-state-logicoOIspammerNO.com> writes...  > > }Hi guys > > } I > > }Well for the past x million years our VMS systems have been running  ? > > }fine. However this year the backup script isn't working...  > > } # > > }I get this error..on all tapes  > > } < > > }%BACKUP-E-FATALERR, fatal error on MKA500:[]BACKUP.BCK;# > > }-SYSTEM-F-PARITY, parity error  > > } @ > > }What does this mean - broken tape drive?? broken file/disk? > > }--  > > }Martin Hepworth > > I > > When's the last time you cleaned the tape drive? (I.E. Ran a cleaning I > > tape in it, or cleaned the heads however your drive type does it - on K > > the old TU81+ reel-to-reel drives you pop out a part near the head that L > > blocks access and clean it directly with the cleaning kit, for example.) > > F > > If you have done that a couple times, then either the tape you areG > > using has gone bad or the drive has gone bad or, just possibly, the H > > cable connecting the drive has gone bad or the I/O controller at the > > computer end has gone bad. > > I > > So, if cleaning doesn't work (sometimes you have to do this more than D > > once) then you should try a different tape. Tapes do go bad, andC > > sometimes they are bad even on their first use (but not often). E > > How many times you can reuse a tape before it will go bad depends G > > both on the type of tape it is and individual variations (using DAT D > > tapes, I've had a few go bad after only a dozen reuses, and haveJ > > several that have been reused more than 20 times that are still good -C > > and I've had about 2, out of some number that is probably a bit E > > over 400, that have gone bad on their first use and a couple more & > > that have done so on the 2nd use). > > I > > If that doesn't work, then it is probably the drive. The drive's head N > > may simply have hit the end of it's useful life - they do that eventually,% > > especially if you clean it a lot.  > > = > > You might also look at the error log to see what it says.  > >  > > --- Carl >  >  >    --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 17:20:29 -0500  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>& Subject: Re: backup problems..(newbie)6 Message-ID: <1030108170708.25162F-100000@Ives.egh.com>   On 8 Jan 2003, Rob Young wrote:   d > In article <3e1c52a4$1@news.si.com>, "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> writes:G > >>Well for the past x million years our VMS systems have been running > > >>fine. However this year the backup script isn't working... > >>" > >>I get this error..on all tapes > >>; > >>%BACKUP-E-FATALERR, fatal error on MKA500:[]BACKUP.BCK; " > >>-SYSTEM-F-PARITY, parity error > > N > > Wierd!  Something similar is happening to us.  (Not on all drives, though, > > just some.)  >  > B > 	I found out two years after the fact... the DWZBees were put in> > 	wrong (connected wrong somehow, now I have little detail, IB > 	did not see it , heard about it 2 years later long gone at that	 > 	site).  > A > 	This could be cable, connections or bent pins, in other words: F > 	hardware related.  For me, service would come out and periodically C > 	replace the drives.  I guess after several rounds of tape drive  B > 	replacement, they decided to look closer and stumbled upon the # > 	configuration mix-up (my guess).  > F > 	The tape drives were TZ89s, very new at the time (5+ years ago) andH > 	no, multiple cycles of tape cleaning cartridges would not fix things.H > 	And yes, that was always the first question support would ask:  "WhenF > 	was the last time you cleaned the tape drive(s)?  When was the lastE > 	time you replaced your tape cartridges?  How many cleaning cycles? A > 	Can you try it again for me and call back if you still get the C > 	error?"  Yeah, I'll call back... 'cause I know it isn't going to 
 > 	fix it. > 
 > 					Rob  A Something similar happened to us...  Several years ago, we got an > 8mm drive (TKZ15?) because we needed to test some software for9 exchanging data with a customer system that had only 8mm.   = It was daisy-chained to an external BA350 shelf on an AS1200. A Don't remember if we installed it or DEC dis, but DEC accepted it  for maintenance.  ? We soon found it was much faster and more reliable than the 4mm A TLZ06? drive on the DECserver 3300 for backing up the cluster, so  it soon got a lot of use.   > Worked fine for about a year and a half before someone somehow? managed to wedge a tape in it upside down or backwards or both!   C DEC/Compaq replaced the drive and that's when the problems started. @ Drives would last anywhere from a few days to a month or so, and@ then started reporting errors on every tape we tried.  They kept swapping drives, no joy.  ? Then I noticed that it always seemed to break when backing up a < disk in the BA350 (same SCSI bus), and usually only when the? system was busy.  Once broken nothing seemed to cure it though. < Sometimes power-cycling the drive or the system would fix it> temporarily, but not always.  Of course, usually the 1st thing> we we try on a new drive or after unwedging the old one was to  repeat the same failed backup...  9 I looked inside for loose cables, etc. and discovered the ; terminator inside the BA350 was still in place, so the SCSI 9 bus was terminated in the middle as well as at both ends. @ Pulled the terminator and it has worked like a champ ever since.  ; Why the original drive was happy with the bogus bus config, 
 I don't know.    --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 20:51:24 -0600 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.spamfree.net>& Subject: Re: backup problems..(newbie)5 Message-ID: <3E1CE3AC.E1E103E@earthlink.spamfree.net>    Martin Hepworth wrote: >  > Carl > G > I cleaned the drive and everything got back to life. We normally do a N > clean once a month (only takes about 30 mins etc backup to an exabyte unit). > J > But the extra clean with a new tape cleaner seemed to have done the job. > 4 > right back to the day job of doing unix admind :-)  2 "admind"? Oh, I get it: you're the "Admin Daemon".   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 15:14:24 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>  Subject: Re: Boot Contest change/ Message-ID: <3E1C7890.6DDB2626@vl.videotron.ca>    Sue Skonetski wrote: >  > Dear Newsgroup,  > L > If you would like a second chance on the boot contest please visit the webN > site.  You will notice that the contest will only allow January and February > dates (hint).   K Sounds like the contest is rigged and that you have already selected a date J for it to happen and tied the engineers to prevent them from booting it on IA64 before that date :-)   L Makes me wonder, as a good conspiracy theorist, whether the official boot ofQ VMS on IA64 will be timed in relation to the EV7 announcements (or lack thereof).   K Would it benefit Intel more to have the announcement of VMS booting on IA64 P before or after the Marvel whispers ? (I don't expect much noise about Marvels).   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 15:07:05 -05005 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@hp.nospam.com>   Subject: Re: Boot Contest change* Message-ID: <avi0di$mvo$1@web1.cup.hp.com>  I problem with the email portion of the web site.  Warren is working on it! @ "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@hp.nospam.com> wrote in message$ news:avhlvh$fp2$1@web1.cup.hp.com... > Dear Newsgroup,  > L > If you would like a second chance on the boot contest please visit the webE > site.  You will notice that the contest will only allow January and  February > dates (hint).  > K > Also if you are outside of the US do it any way.  Legal requirements make  usJ > limit the participation.  But we will take care of the winners no matter > where they are from. > C > http://h18003.www1.hp.com/hps/ipf-enterprise/openvms_contest.html  >  > Warm regards as always,  >  > sue  >  >  >    ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 22:04:40 +0100 From: "stm" <stm@pt.lu>   Subject: Re: Boot Contest change% Message-ID: <3e1c92e4$1_1@news.vo.lu>    Try to use a Vax or Alpha    Rgds,  Michel Strainchamps     @ "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@hp.nospam.com> wrote in message$ news:avi0di$mvo$1@web1.cup.hp.com...K > problem with the email portion of the web site.  Warren is working on it! B > "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@hp.nospam.com> wrote in message& > news:avhlvh$fp2$1@web1.cup.hp.com... > > Dear Newsgroup,  > > J > > If you would like a second chance on the boot contest please visit the web G > > site.  You will notice that the contest will only allow January and 
 > February > > dates (hint).  > > H > > Also if you are outside of the US do it any way.  Legal requirements make > usL > > limit the participation.  But we will take care of the winners no matter > > where they are from. > > E > > http://h18003.www1.hp.com/hps/ipf-enterprise/openvms_contest.html  > >  > > Warm regards as always,  > >  > > sue  > >  > >  > >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 19:22:27 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>  Subject: Re: Boot Contest change/ Message-ID: <3E1CB2A2.B0F01BAB@vl.videotron.ca>    Sue Skonetski wrote:N > > If you would like a second chance on the boot contest please visit the webG > > site.  You will notice that the contest will only allow January and  > February dates (hint).  , Based on the following rule on the web site: ##L All OpenVMS Engineers (and their kin, friends, acquaintances and loved ones)F are excluded from this contest on the grounds that they know too much. ##  / It means that only people qualified to win are:    JF Mezei (myself) 	 Bill Todd  David Dachtera   Andrew Harrisson  N all others fit in the "next of kin, friends, acquaintances and loved ones" and# are thus excluded from the context.   K Therefore, with the first 4 already decided by default, it leaves only room N for the 5th winner and that is now opened to the one who can break their "nextM of kin, friend, acquaintance and loved one" association the fastest/most. :-)    ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jan 2003 19:04:03 -0800 1 From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski)   Subject: Re: Boot Contest change= Message-ID: <857e9e41.0301081904.73f9af2e@posting.google.com>   B Michel - The site were all the VMS information is an Alpha system,) using VMS that is not where the issue is.   D JF -  have you been watching spy movies lately.  Of course we do not? have a planned boot date. You are giving us way to much credit.e  )  The best way for me to describe this is.e  ? The engineers are like gifted artists and they are creating andeC working on the code everyday but as you know with any true art formbD you can not dictate when something happens but when they are done we will have a true masterpiece.   B Plus do you honestly think we would hold back on shouting from theB roof tops that we have a boot contest winner?  I think you will be6 able to hear us in Canada just by opening the door ;.)   Have a great night.( suee        D "stm" <stm@pt.lu> wrote in message news:<3e1c92e4$1_1@news.vo.lu>... > Try to use a Vax or Alpha  >  > Rgds,e > Michel Strainchampsn >  > B > "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@hp.nospam.com> wrote in message& > news:avi0di$mvo$1@web1.cup.hp.com...M > > problem with the email portion of the web site.  Warren is working on it!-D > > "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@hp.nospam.com> wrote in message( > > news:avhlvh$fp2$1@web1.cup.hp.com... > > > Dear Newsgroup,t > > >tL > > > If you would like a second chance on the boot contest please visit the >  webI > > > site.  You will notice that the contest will only allow January and$ >  February) > > > dates (hint).  > > >EJ > > > Also if you are outside of the US do it any way.  Legal requirements >  makes >  us N > > > limit the participation.  But we will take care of the winners no matter > > > where they are from. > > >fG > > > http://h18003.www1.hp.com/hps/ipf-enterprise/openvms_contest.html  > > >M > > > Warm regards as always,  > > >f	 > > > suer > > >7 > > >a > > >i > >l > >t   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 20:05:16 -0500* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>  Subject: Re: Boot Contest change2 Message-ID: <3RmcnUgDXdlDV4GjXTWc3Q@metrocast.net>  = "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in messagee) news:3E1CB2A2.B0F01BAB@vl.videotron.ca...V > Sue Skonetski wrote:L > > > If you would like a second chance on the boot contest please visit the weboI > > > site.  You will notice that the contest will only allow January and  > > February dates (hint). >o. > Based on the following rule on the web site: > ##H > All OpenVMS Engineers (and their kin, friends, acquaintances and loved ones)eH > are excluded from this contest on the grounds that they know too much. > ## >l1 > It means that only people qualified to win are:n >? > JF Mezei (myself)- > Bill Todd  > David Dachtera > Andrew Harrisson >>L > all others fit in the "next of kin, friends, acquaintances and loved ones" andr% > are thus excluded from the context.r  K Actually, there are still one or two VMS engineers whom I consider friends,iJ but since I haven't talked with them since well before the contest began I don't feel that's an issue.P   - bill   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Jan 2003 01:32:46 GMTa( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)  Subject: Re: Boot Contest change5 Message-ID: <avijfu$g25nm$2@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>g  / In article <3E1CB2A2.B0F01BAB@vl.videotron.ca>,s3 	JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes:e > Sue Skonetski wrote:O >> > If you would like a second chance on the boot contest please visit the weboH >> > site.  You will notice that the contest will only allow January and >> February dates (hint).  > . > Based on the following rule on the web site: > ##N > All OpenVMS Engineers (and their kin, friends, acquaintances and loved ones)H > are excluded from this contest on the grounds that they know too much. > ## > 1 > It means that only people qualified to win are:t >  > JF Mezei (myself)0 > Bill Todds > David Dachtera o > Andrew Harrisson > P > all others fit in the "next of kin, friends, acquaintances and loved ones" and% > are thus excluded from the context.n > M > Therefore, with the first 4 already decided by default, it leaves only roomIP > for the 5th winner and that is now opened to the one who can break their "nextO > of kin, friend, acquaintance and loved one" association the fastest/most. :-)s  F Somehow I doubt that there are many who would put me in that catagory.0 Maybe I should hurry up and get my entry in. :-)   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   e   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 21:52:41 -0500:2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)  Subject: Re: Boot Contest changeL Message-ID: <rdeininger-0801032152420001@user-2ive3sb.dialup.mindspring.com>  8 In article <3E1C7890.6DDB2626@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei( <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote:  M >Makes me wonder, as a good conspiracy theorist, whether the official boot of H >VMS on IA64 will be timed in relation to the EV7 announcements (or lack	 thereof).h  ; JF, who told you that you are a _good_ conspiracy theorist?    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 15:52:18 -0800 0 From: Mark Berryman <Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com>0 Subject: Re: Callable mail oddity (999 char max)+ Message-ID: <3E1C4932.AA869D9@Mvb.Saic.Com>u   JF Mezei wrote:s > 
 > VAX VMS 7.2  > M > Had a program run for some time without problem. (Transfers mail from a pope > mailbox to VMS mailbox). > I > Then, I got one of those nigerian scam letters that had microsoft style P > paragraphs (1 line per paragraph) but no quoted printable encoding, where someE > paragraphs exceeded 1000 characters. My ISP truncated those to 1000tU > characters, (and added a comment to that effect in the RFC headers of that message.i > L > On NODE VELO, the application went bezerk. So I changed the application to; > have the callable mail put back all the LIB$SIGNAL stuff.p > 4 > Here is what I got: (this is running on node VELO) > 8 > %MAIL-E-SENDERR, error sending to user JFMEZEI at BIKEB > -MAIL-E-READERR, error reading GATEWAY:[LOG]2003010602082632.TMP9 > -RMS-W-RTB, 999 byte record too large for user's buffers1 > %TRACE-E-TRACEBACK, symbolic stack dump followsN > U > This is followed by a long repetition of about 3000 of: (dump at bottom of message)  > F > Now, the worse part is that if I run this on node BIKE, whose SYSUAFP > definition of the account running the software is the same, it runs fine ! The2 > application itself has buffers up to 2000 bytes. > O > I realise that there is a patch available for 7.2 that deals with some memoryMP > exhaustion for callablae mail. But if the problem occurs even when the processK > is freshly created, could that really be a problem related to the patch ?e > K > (I want to understand the behaviour/problem which is reproducible on VELOsV > right now, and I fear it would go away if I reboot everything with a patch applied). > H > Here is the dump that gets printed about 3000 times before the processK > terminates. Note that neither of the MAIL$SEND_MESSAGE success or failuret > routines get called. >  > Any suggestions ?s [dump snipped]  @ I believe you are running up against a limitation of the mail-11D protocol, which is what VMSMAIL uses to deliver mail between nodes. D When mail is delivered to the local node, it can handle long lines. D However, when it delivers to a remote node it communicates using theA mail-11 protocol which is limited to line lengths of 255 or less.   
 Mark Berrymanb   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 19:32:58 -0400a0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>0 Subject: Re: Callable mail oddity (999 char max)/ Message-ID: <3E1CB519.A68A9110@vl.videotron.ca>e   Mark Berryman wrote:B > I believe you are running up against a limitation of the mail-11E > protocol, which is what VMSMAIL uses to deliver mail between nodes. E > When mail is delivered to the local node, it can handle long lines.7F > However, when it delivers to a remote node it communicates using theC > mail-11 protocol which is limited to line lengths of 255 or less.   N Ahhhh, I will have to look into this. Thanks for putting me on potentially the right track.   ------------------------------    Date: 09 Jan 2003 08:10:25 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>0 Subject: Re: Callable mail oddity (999 char max)- Message-ID: <87k7hfgp3i.fsf@prep.synonet.com>r  2 JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes:  
 > VAX VMS 7.2o  nM > Had a program run for some time without problem. (Transfers mail from a popu > mailbox to VMS mailbox).  v@ > Here is the dump that gets printed about 3000 times before the@ > process terminates. Note that neither of the MAIL$SEND_MESSAGE) > success or failure routines get called.y  l > Any suggestions ?a  ? I think that is a static or max sized buffer in mailshr that iso byting you.o   -- u< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.h@                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 15:09:23 -05005 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@hp.nospam.com>e6 Subject: Con-Dist info on the web - keep for reference* Message-ID: <avi0hv$n0a$1@web1.cup.hp.com>   Dear Newsgroup,   F There's an external web site at the following URL: http://www1.sqp.com  E The site explains the various Software Library offerings and includeseI Software Library Master Indexes. Hyperlinks to SPDs and Cover Letters are  included  # thought you might find this useful.n   sue7   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 21:17:56 GMTa7 From: brad@.homeportal.2wire.net (Bradford J. Hamilton)e: Subject: Re: Con-Dist info on the web - keep for reference. Message-ID: <8A0T9.288543$qF3.28314@sccrnsc04>  b In article <avi0hv$n0a$1@web1.cup.hp.com>, "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@hp.nospam.com> writes: >Dear Newsgroup, >aG >There's an external web site at the following URL: http://www1.sqp.comf >rF >The site explains the various Software Library offerings and includesJ >Software Library Master Indexes. Hyperlinks to SPDs and Cover Letters are	 >included  >e$ >thought you might find this useful.  M I did find this useful - several links away from this page, it is possible tot. order the ConDist as a "one-time-only option":  8 http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/os/swroll/spl.html  M Unfortunately, I can't afford this at present, but this may be an interesting M option to folks with limited budgets.  I wasn't aware this was even possible.r   Thanks again, Sue.   >8 >sue >o >  >a  A _________________________________________________________________ 0 Bradford J. Hamilton			"All opinions are my own"/ bMradAhamiPltSon@atMtAbi.cPoSm		"Lose the MAPS"u   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 11:35:31 -0500; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>o= Subject: Re: Demise of VMS (and most other operating systems)p$ Message-ID: <3e1c5350$1@news.si.com>   >  $ftp node >  Username: xyz >  Password: >  node> help record-sizeR  ? Odd.  This HELP is available only when a connection is present.  -- tI Brian Tillman         Internet: Brian.Tillman at smiths-aerospace dot com 5 Smiths Aerospace  Addresses modified to prevent SPAM.n@ 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS Replace "at" with "@", "dot" with "." Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991e8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jan 2003 15:41:39 -06000; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)-= Subject: Re: Demise of VMS (and most other operating systems)r3 Message-ID: <NpzZZ8NrgBlK@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  b In article <3e1c5350$1@news.si.com>, "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> writes:
 >>  $ftp node  >>  Username: xyzw
 >>  Password:b >>  node> help record-size > A > Odd.  This HELP is available only when a connection is present.g  B    Design.  The Mutlinet FTP client gives only context appropriate    help.   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jan 2003 19:36 CST' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)a= Subject: Re: Demise of VMS (and most other operating systems):, Message-ID: <8JAN200319360827@gerg.tamu.edu>  ? "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> writes... 
 }>  $ftp node  }>  Username: xyz 
 }>  Password:c }>  node> help record-size } @ }Odd.  This HELP is available only when a connection is present. }-- J }Brian Tillman         Internet: Brian.Tillman at smiths-aerospace dot com  G Yeah, the Multinet FTP help is "modal" - for the most part you only get2G help for the stuff you can actually use based on whether or not you aree
 connected.  C But the "?" lists things you can't currnetly do. You can also entergC "record ?" without being connected and it will give you basic info.    --- Carl   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 12:12:40 -0500; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>-0 Subject: Re: F$GETDVI ("AVL") in an IF statement$ Message-ID: <3e1c5c06$1@news.si.com>  , >$IF F$GETDVI("$1$DUA0:","AVL") .EQS. "TRUE" >$THEN) >$ MOUNT/CLUSTER $1$DUA0: MARINONI $DISK11 >$ELSE8 >$ REQUEST "*** Disk DUA0 is not available, not mounted" >$ENDIFk  3 Here's another approach you might want to consider:    $! Mount all unmounted disks.  $!/ $ disk = f$device( "*du*", "disk" ) - "_" - ":"e $! $ nextdisk: % $    if .NOT. f$getdvi( disk, "mnt" ) # $    mount/over=id/norebuild 'disk's' $    volume = f$getdvi( disk, "volnam")  $    dism/nounlo 'disk'v4 $    mount/system/noassist/norebuild 'disk' 'volume'2 $    disk = f$device( "*du*", "disk" ) - "_" - ":"( $    if disk .nes. "" then goto nextdisk $! $! All mounted.G $! $ exit -- TI Brian Tillman         Internet: Brian.Tillman at smiths-aerospace dot comy5 Smiths Aerospace  Addresses modified to prevent SPAM.a@ 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS Replace "at" with "@", "dot" with "." Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991e8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------    Date: 09 Jan 2003 07:46:08 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>0 Subject: Re: F$GETDVI ("AVL") in an IF statement- Message-ID: <87wulfgq7z.fsf@prep.synonet.com>h  2 JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes:  & > So, let me reformulate the question:   F > During a system boot in a cluster, assuming no drive is manually SETD > VOL/NOAVAIL, does testing just for EXISTS ensure that a MOUNT willB > succeed (even if it causes mount verif or if drive is already in' > mount verification on another node) ?u  ; No, the drive must also be AVAILABLE, and be able to becomenE UNIT-ONLINE to the host just booting. Another host could have set the/B unit UNAVAILABLE or have it ONLINE foe exclusive access. Or failed: circus could have unpluged it, so it will be UNAVAILBLE or) NONEXISTANT, depending on the controller.h   -- /< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.-@                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------    Date: 09 Jan 2003 07:41:40 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>0 Subject: Re: F$GETDVI ("AVL") in an IF statement- Message-ID: <871y3ni4zv.fsf@prep.synonet.com>t  0 spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes:  8 > The lexical function F$GETDVI assumes the latter view.  7 It uses the definitions lated out in the MSCP spec. Thee9 UDA-50 manaul has a good section on 'EXISTS', 'AVAILABLE' . and 'ONLINE' and the differences between them.   -- M< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.,@                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jan 2003 14:26:32 -0800X From: vadya@ibjus.com (Vinit) > Subject: Firmware Update and VMS upgrade chanded device names.= Message-ID: <95014e43.0301081426.3946e334@posting.google.com>5   Hi Everyone,  C I had an existing AXP4100, with all disks named DKAn: connected to -E SCSI controller SCSI PKD0: (disk served by HSZ70.) Now after firmware E update  on AS4100 console, and an fresh install of VMS (new disk) alle" disk devices have changed to DKDn:   Could you help!w   Regardst
 Vinit Adya   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 18:55:00 -0500  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>B Subject: Re: Firmware Update and VMS upgrade chanded device names.6 Message-ID: <1030108182151.25162C-100000@Ives.egh.com>   On 8 Jan 2003, Vinit wrote:    > Hi Everyone, > E > I had an existing AXP4100, with all disks named DKAn: connected to pG > SCSI controller SCSI PKD0: (disk served by HSZ70.) Now after firmware.G > update  on AS4100 console, and an fresh install of VMS (new disk) ally$ > disk devices have changed to DKDn: >  > Could you help!  > 	 > Regardse > Vinit Adya  J It sounds like either the controller changed its name from PKA0: to PKD0:,C or that you used to have an allocation class defined for the HSZ70.-  C If the 1st case, then either you have added some new controllers or H the firmware change caused a change in the naming rules for controllers.E There is nothing much you can do about this except 1) to back out theyD firmware update (not recommended).  2) Reorganize the controllers onB the PCI to get your HSZ70 controller (currently PKD0:) to come outE as PKA0:.  This may not be possible.  A built-in controller, e.g. the F one for the CD, might always be PKA0:, or there might be an issue withD 32-bit vs 64-bit PCI slots or 33Mhz vs. 66Mhz buses that could causeB potentially serious performance problems.  3) Assign logical names? of the form "DKAnnn:" to each "DKDnnn:" disk.  This could causea6 collisions with existing real DKAnnn: devices, though.  C If the second case, then the old names were *NOT* DKAnnn:, but wered? $xxx$DKAnnn:, where the xxx was the allocation class.  When you-D reinstalled VMS, did you wipe out or retain sys$system:modparams.datE and the file where port allocation classes are maintained?  (I forgete where these live.)   </RANT>5  ? *Never* ever use physical device names in *anything*, except ins; sys$manager:sylogicals.com, where you should assign logicalc? names for all the physical devices.  (Actually, it is better to < put these commands in a separate .com file and call it from A sylogicals.com. Then you can move things around whenever you wanti= to by just editting the file and executing it interactively.)a  = For example, you could number all your disks from 0 to n, and ? assign logicals of the form "DISKn:" to each physical disk, and0; then always use the "DISKn:" logical names everywhere else, ? even when mounting them in systartup_vms.com.  (This is the oldn MicroVMS scheme, I think.)  = Alternatively, you can use the logical names (based on volumer; labels) assigned by VMS when you mount the disks.  Then theu: only place the physical drive name appears is in the mount= command; everywhere else, you must use "DISK$label:" instead.i    ? Applications should use a second level (or even third level) ofpG logical names assigned to the first level in application startup files.h? For example, application FOO's monthly reports should be storedr= in FOO_MONTHLY:, which is defined as DISK17:[FOO.MONTHLY], or:= better yet, define FOO_ROOT: as a concealed, terminal logical E name for DISK17:[FOO.] and define FOO_MONTHLY: as FOO_ROOT:[MONTHLY].u  > This way FOO can be moved to a different disk independently of@ your physical volume labeling scheme.  (You may want to put moreB than one application on a single disk or split appart applicationsB that were formerly on a single disk for reasons of load balancing,B or because the data requirements are changing and things no longer* fit.  This makes such things much easier.)   </END_RANT>e   -- o John Santosd Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 19:39:43 GMTv# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>5Y Subject: Re: FYI - CERT Advisory - Network device drivers reuse old frame buffer  data toAF Message-ID: <38%S9.6310$pDv.4126@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  5 "Leo Demers" <leo_dot_demers@HP.COM> wrote in message $ news:avhk7t$ehb$1@web1.cup.hp.com...C > The VMS Lan Ethernet drivers either pad with zero's for the Lancee and 3com > 3C589B chipsD > or rely on the device to pad the packet. A quick review of some of thet > Hardware specs showbD > that the HW vendors do the right thing for example the Intel 82558	 and 82559  > chips pad with > 0X7E. D >   Thanks for pointing out that HP doesn't have an entry listing in	 the Cert.I > I will follow up with : >  the HP CERT contacts and have them update our position. >  > - Leo  > -- > Leo Demers" > OpenVMS Security Product Manager > Leo_dot_Demers_at_HP_dot_COM     Leo,  F Thanks for responding so quickly. You may want to check with the Tru64? side of the house to see if they are in the same situation wheno$ getting the HP CERT team to respond.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 04:25:33 GMTs- From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>o2 Subject: Re: How to use Mozilla V1.0 for news/mail> Message-ID: <1R6T9.68189$VA5.10771640@news1.news.adelphia.net>   VAXman- wrote:/ > In article <WEWS9.27$Pw.15@news.cpqcorp.net>, @   "John E. Malmberg" <Malmberg@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq.hp> writes: >  >>VAXman- wrote: >>Y >>>In article <3E1C0A58.8070801@theblakes.com>, Colin Blake <colin@theblakes.com> writes:  >>>IL >>>>It can take a while to fetch the list of newsgroups if you're on a slow J >>>>link, but it shouldn't consume an hour of CPU time. Please file a bug # >>>>report on bugzilla.mozilla.org.e >>@ >>I think that this is one that I already filed a bug report on. >>1 >>I do not have the bug number handy here though.c >>M >>>.... but there's no network activity.  So I doubt it's a download of news- M >>>groups issue.  Also, this is a T1 link.  Not the fastest but certainly not  >>>slow. >>F >>If this is what I think it is, another part of Mozilla is trying to M >>contact a non-accessable I.P. address, and this is blocking the newsreader.  >>J >>Check to see if Mozilla is trying to check messages from a POP3 or IMAP G >>mail server that is not accessable, such as one for a munged address.d% >>This will be under server settings.n > H > The *ONLY* server setting I find is under [Edit].  There's a menu itemH > "Mail & Newsgroup Account Settings..."  CLicking on this takes me to a > window with: >  tJ > If I select Server Settings, I get a window asking about the news server@ > (which is correctly filled in) but nothing about Mail servers.  I I suspect that the cause is either something ran out of quota, or one of eK the other windows is trying to contact an I.P. address that does not exist.   H I have not done any developement work on Mozilla, so I am only guessing " based on what I have needed to do.  F Mozilla consumes more resources on my DS10 than any other application G that I have run, and with the version that I was running yesterday, it v; no longer left enough resources to spawn java applications.   H It also tonight lost all of my bookmarks.  Fortunately it seems to keep < a secret backup copy in it's work directory as an HTML page.  ; So I just upgraded to the latest version, from Jan 3, 2003.   G There are now three versions at the GET_MOZILLA site that was e-mailed -+ to you as a result of filling out the form.-  I The Jan 3, 2003 seems to have fixed the broken plain text compose editor )G that was very badly broken with the previous ones.  Later this week, I ,J will see how many of the bugs that I have reported so far have been fixed.  0 Your feedback in Bugzilla could be very helpful.   -Johnt wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Onlye   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 04:32:38 GMTn- From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> 2 Subject: Re: How to use Mozilla V1.0 for news/mail> Message-ID: <GX6T9.68192$VA5.10772535@news1.news.adelphia.net>   Didier Morandi wrote:s > John E. Malmberg wrote:a >  >> -John$ >> malmberg@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq.hp% >                   =================e > I like it   E The spammers have harvested malmberg@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq, but none  6 have yet managed to get delivery to the dskwld server.  E The address has shown up in the distribution list of spams that have s8 made it to totally unrelated ISPs for the last 9 months.  I The malmberg@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq.hp has not shown up anywhere yet, but a? who knows.  Maybe it hit a buffer overflow bug in the spamware.o   -Johnt wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Onlym   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 14:59:15 -0500 From: norm.raphael@metso.comF Subject: Re: HSG-80 firmware, version 8.7-1F... anybody installed yet?? Message-ID: <OF960F13FD.564FBACC-ON85256CA8.006DB9C4@metso.com>s  ; I was just talking to HP services and when I mentioned 8.7Ft (OpenVMScluster)2 the comment was do not upgrade if 8.6F is working.  / From:  koskaj@bender.com on 01/08/2003 11:16 AM   # Please respond to koskaj@bender.com'   To:    Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com cc:t  I Subject:    Re: HSG-80 firmware, version 8.7-1F... anybody installed yet?     I >From:             SMTP%"DHarrold@wi.rr.com"  "David Harrold"  8-JAN-2003m 10:35:00.04r" >To:         Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >CC:K >Subj:             Re: HSG-80 firmware, version 8.7-1F... anybody installedS yet? >o< >On Tue, 7 Jan 2003 15:55:20 -0500, koskaj@bender.com wrote: > F >>I was wondering if anyone out there has installed/upgraded to HSG-80 8.7-1F8 >>firmware, and if there have been any issues with such. >> >eH >If you are like me, I only got the cards, no docs/release notes/etc.  I loggedI >a call and asked where the upgrade info was and I was told that the docsoJ >aren't ready yet and they don't know why the cards shipped with the docs.  J Hmm.. I got 3 shipments.  The first 2 had very cursory install letter withJ Windows 2000 hosts.  Letter AV-RTCDA-TE of August 2002.  The last shipment hadoJ similar install letter for Windows 2000 hosts, except a bit more detailed.  " Letter AV-RTCDB-TE of August 2002.  C I guess there is suppose to be OpenVMS install letter from what youe	 indicate.   I >I was also told that the documentation was required to correctly installb this	 >release.f  < I'm glad I asked.  Very glad.  Guess I will stay tuned here.  , >So, I would wait a while before installing.  J Do you have service call open on this issue?  If not, how will you/we know when6 there is an OpenVMS install letter/instructions ready?  
 >Dave Harroldt >i >h >iO >..............................................................................a  D >David Harrold                              E-Mail: David_Harrold at
 aurora.orgJ >Sr. Software Systems Engineer              Phone:          (414) 647-6204J >                                           Pager:          (414) 941-4634H >Aurora Health Care                         Fax:          (414) 647-4999 >3031 W. Montana Streetb >Milwaukee, WI 53215   :) jck
 John Koska Matthew Bender & Co., Inc. A Member of LexisNexis Group   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 15:24:23 -0500 From: koskaj@bender.comaF Subject: Re: HSG-80 firmware, version 8.7-1F... anybody installed yet?: Message-ID: <03010815242345.ca5.4918070@alaxp3.bender.com>  < >From:	SMTP%"norm.raphael@metso.com"  8-JAN-2003 14:54:35.29 >To:	Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >CC:	oD >Subj:	Re: HSG-80 firmware, version 8.7-1F... anybody installed yet? >t >/< >I was just talking to HP services and when I mentioned 8.7F >(OpenVMScluster)o3 >the comment was do not upgrade if 8.6F is working.e  6 Thank you for your reply.  It was greatly appreciated.   :) jck
 John Koska Matthew Bender & Co., Inc. A Member of LexisNexis Group   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 15:41:20 -0500' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>aF Subject: RE: HSG-80 firmware, version 8.7-1F... anybody installed yet?T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660CA8@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Re: V8.7F ACS for HSG80 ..  F Its been out and available for awhile now. We have it running on a fewF sites with no issues. I am working on large VAX to Alpha / SAN project9 and we have been using since last October with no issues.i   ACS home site:4 http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/storageworks/acs/   Description:D http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/storageworks/acs/description.html  @ OpenVMS specific info such as install guides, release notes etc:C http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/storageworks/acs/g80ovms.html=20    Regards8  
 Kerry Main Senior ConsultantS Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.! Consulting & Integration Services  Voice: 613-592-4660g Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom-     (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s)w         -----Original Message-----? From: norm.raphael@metso.com [mailto:norm.raphael@metso.com]=20e Sent: January 8, 2003 2:59 PMo To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComkF Subject: Re: HSG-80 firmware, version 8.7-1F... anybody installed yet?      ; I was just talking to HP services and when I mentioned 8.7Fy (OpenVMScluster)2 the comment was do not upgrade if 8.6F is working.  / From:  koskaj@bender.com on 01/08/2003 11:16 AMt  # Please respond to koskaj@bender.come   To:    Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com cc:f  D Subject:    Re: HSG-80 firmware, version 8.7-1F... anybody installed yet?    = >From:             SMTP%"DHarrold@wi.rr.com"  "David Harrold"-
 8-JAN-2003 10:35:00.04 " >To:         Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >CC:A >Subj:             Re: HSG-80 firmware, version 8.7-1F... anybody 	 installed_ yet? >.< >On Tue, 7 Jan 2003 15:55:20 -0500, koskaj@bender.com wrote: > F >>I was wondering if anyone out there has installed/upgraded to HSG-80 8.7-1F8 >>firmware, and if there have been any issues with such. >> > H >If you are like me, I only got the cards, no docs/release notes/etc.  I loggedG >a call and asked where the upgrade info was and I was told that the=20eH >docs aren't ready yet and they don't know why the cards shipped with=20
 >the docs.  E Hmm.. I got 3 shipments.  The first 2 had very cursory install letterlF with Windows 2000 hosts.  Letter AV-RTCDA-TE of August 2002.  The lastH shipment had similar install letter for Windows 2000 hosts, except a bit more detailed.  " Letter AV-RTCDB-TE of August 2002.  C I guess there is suppose to be OpenVMS install letter from what youw	 indicate.p  D >I was also told that the documentation was required to correctly=20 >install this	 >release.   < I'm glad I asked.  Very glad.  Guess I will stay tuned here.  , >So, I would wait a while before installing.  E Do you have service call open on this issue?  If not, how will you/we-@ know when there is an OpenVMS install letter/instructions ready?  
 >Dave Harroldl >  >e >dH >....................................................................... >.......  D >David Harrold                              E-Mail: David_Harrold at
 aurora.orgA >Sr. Software Systems Engineer              Phone:          (414)k 647-6204A >                                           Pager:          (414)  941-4634H >Aurora Health Care                         Fax:          (414) 647-4999 >3031 W. Montana Streete >Milwaukee, WI 53215   :) jck
 John Koska Matthew Bender & Co., Inc. A Member of LexisNexis Group   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 23:42:05 GMT ! From: rob.buxton@wcc.spam.govt.nz F Subject: Re: HSG-80 firmware, version 8.7-1F... anybody installed yet?% Message-ID: <3e1cb5f6.276117035@news>e  ; On Tue, 7 Jan 2003 15:55:20 -0500, koskaj@bender.com wrote:o  M >I was wondering if anyone out there has installed/upgraded to HSG-80 8.7-1F :7 >firmware, and if there have been any issues with such.e >   D We're running 8.7F-0 on our SAN that has NT Servers attached with no	 problems.t6 I've not seen 8.7F-1 which would be a Patched variant.C I've just checked the HP web Site and the patches there are for 8.6 E only and stop at 8.6n-8 which is not the latest as we were on 8.6F-10o before the upgrade.b  B If there's an 8.7-1F as opposed to 8.7F-1 then I'm even more lost!   Patches available at: N http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/storageworks/softwaredrivers/acs/index.html   Rob.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 12:25:56 -0500; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>eK Subject: Re: I just wanted to share a note I sent to the group this morningr$ Message-ID: <3e1c5f22$1@news.si.com>  D >I find it interesting that no one even tried to distinguish between- >"national language" and "official language".u  L Then by your terms, though I have no real way to measure it, that English isL still the "national" language of the Unites States; that is, I would contendJ that the majority of people here speak English, thus making "Remember whenH English was our national language?" either obvious, since one can easily8 remember something that still exists, or a non-sequitur. -- nI Brian Tillman         Internet: Brian.Tillman at smiths-aerospace dot comh5 Smiths Aerospace  Addresses modified to prevent SPAM.w@ 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS Replace "at" with "@", "dot" with "." Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991o8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 22:23:52 -0000* From: "John Travell" <john@travell.uk.net>0 Subject: Independent VMS crash analysis service.5 Message-ID: <avi8du$g8dfp$1@ID-120847.news.dfncis.de>   K Since my search for a VMS based job is not (so far) meeting much success, IvK am considering an alternate source of income - providing an independent VMS  crash analysis service. L Skills are not the problem, remember that before CPQ made me redundant I was6 one of the principal crash analysis experts in the UK.I The problem is that I have no idea how big the potential global demand ise for this type of service.p  F What I would NOT be offering is either hardware support or 'across the board' VMS support.n  
 Questions:L Is there already such a service available that I would have to compete with?J How many people are there suffering unresolved crashes because they either3 cannot or choose not to pay for analysis by CPQ/HP?fA Would a relatively low cost service be an attractive alternative?tJ Would the fact that I no-longer have formal links into engineering be seen as a show stopper?J Would any 'third party' maintenance companies be interested in subscribing to such a service?    L If this becomes a reality I would expect crashdumps to be sent to me by FTP,I and most of the communication done by email, so substantially eliminatingn4 time-zone dependencies and international call costs.  < Feedback on the potential business volume would be valuable.     --
 John Travell,' john@travell.uk.netn http://www.travell.uk.net/     ---o& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A Version: 6.0.435 / Virus Database: 244 - Release Date: 30/12/2002o   ------------------------------    Date: 09 Jan 2003 05:58:28 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use?t- Message-ID: <8765szi9rv.fsf@prep.synonet.com>I  0 spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes:  C > Someone once showed me a proof that there are no integers betweenlC > zero and one! Incredible. Who'd even imagine that that would be atB > problem?  It's supposedly useful for something; I can't remember > just what, though.  @ If you dig around on John Baez's web page, you should be able to+ find his proof that 6 exists. Also usefull!    -- m< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.i@                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jan 2003 21:51:53 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)vY Subject: Re: JF and backporting features (was: Re: Machine checks not always  hardware fa * Message-ID: <avi6hp$pt6$1@web1.cup.hp.com>  b In article <ave9b9$e281t$1@ID-120847.news.dfncis.de>, "John Travell" <john@travell.uk.net> writes: : > :"JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message* :news:3E1A5D50.720481EC@vl.videotron.ca... :>H :> Also, if I have a VS42A-BD  (model 30), does this mean that I can put :> large drives on it ?-9 :> Or am I prevented because it is used as a vaxstation ?i :>L :> Is there a way from VMS to find out if the system disk is mounted using 6 :> or 10 byte SCSI subsystem?1 :Perhaps you miss a detail.nC :The 1Gb limitation has NOTHING to do with VMS 'mounting' the disk.j  G   The OpenVMS VAX VMB image is built into the VAXstation ROM.  VMB has iF   boot drivers built into it.  These boot drivers use the then-currentG   SCSI command set for their operations.  All members of the VAXstationdE   3100 series use version(s) of VMB which use six-byte SCSI commands.-  J   Please read the OpenVMS FAQ for details.  If you do not understand what H   the FAQ is trying to communicate on this or on any other topic, pleaseI   let me know EXACTLY what is not understood, and I will determine if theAJ   present FAQ text on this topic can be reworded such that it becomes moreK   understandable to you and to others which might have a similar confusion.e  G   I'd personally rather not re-hash topics already discussed in the FAQpI   (barring confusion derived from any present and relevent FAQ text), I'de9   rather see new and (hopefully) different discussions...c  I :It is EVERYTHING to do with the console code cannot generate LBN's largei( :enough to address disk space above 1Gb.  
   Correct.  I :The problem is this. You COULD put a 200Gb disk in there, it would work,NH :*BUT* as soon as you put ANY ONE of the files that the CONSOLE needs toK :access when booting the system ABOVE 1Gb you render the system UNBOOTABLE.e  I   "Unbootable" is one thing, and is fairly innocuous in the grand scheme. G   Certainly annoying, but -- since this is repairable using a boot fromoF   a distribution CD-ROM or similar, and repairable without the loss of:   any existing disk data -- arguably also mostly harmless.  I   DISK CORRUPTIONS, on the other hand, can occur when and if clusters of nI   the dump file are past the wrapping point.  These corruptions are UGLY,fI   and repair and recovery might or might not be possible.  These can also I   be silent -- you might not know about the corruption and might not evenhG   trigger it for weeks or years after the initial system configuration.r  K :You could manually place all of the relevant files inside the first 1Gb (IaC :have done so on a 9Gb disk, and it works), BUT as soon as you do a G :backup/restore your careful file placement goes out the window and thee9 :console cannot find a file needed to boot the system....p  E   Again, it is the use of the console boot drivers for processing theoG   system crash that is the "interesting" and most hazardous part of theeH   use of a larger disk.  If you try the usual hack, you need to be very J   careful to ensure that no clusters of the dump file (or of the pagefile,I   if that is where you are writing dumps) ever exceed the %x1fffff 1.073  I   GB "wrap" inherent in the SCSI-1 six-byte commands used by the console.i  H   I *have* seen discussions here and elsewhere around disk partitioning,F   careful file placement, partitioning drivers, and such -- the GoogleD   newsgroup search should easily find the various times this general,   VAXstation 3100 boot ROM topic has arisen.   J :You CAN put large DATA disks on the system, DEC/CPQ/HP cannot 'support' aK :SYSTEM disk larger than 1Gb because no-one will pay for the work needed tosM :make the console ROMs contain code able to address all of the LBN's on thoset :larger disks. :n :    JT: :eI :> Isn't Sue supposed to make sure these things NEVER happen ? Perhaps werM :> need to send her a whip so she can make sure the engineers behave  :-) :-)t  I   VAX hardware from 1989 can't bootstrap from a decade-newer disk, a disk-I   that is based on a SCSI standard that did not exist when the VAXstationlL   system was designed?  (We're dozens of platforms and several revisions of K   SCSI beyond these boxes, and are presently working on a second subsequentp(   architectural transition for OpenVMS.)  I   As stated earlier, provide a sufficiently large cashier's check for thelJ   work, and I expect that the services folks could back-port a more recentJ   VMB version into these console ROMs.  But it would be cheaper and easierJ   to replace the boxes with far newer and far faster VAX, Alpha, or (soon)I   Itanium systems, or to stock up on the 1GB system disk spares needed byhI   these boxes.  After all, when VMB is back-ported, the system will still I   be an ancient CVAX- or (in one case) Rigel-class VAXstation 3100 systemhF   operating at speeds between 2.8 and 7.6 VUPs; operating very slowly.    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------J       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.comN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.como   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 20:23:24 GMTo# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>e, Subject: Looks like AMD has deep pockets nowJ Message-ID: <0N%S9.256169$F2h1.66241@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  F http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=569&ncid=738&e=1&u=/nm/2003 0108/tc_nm/tech_ibm_amd_dc    ' IBM, AMD to Develop New Microprocessors   ? SUNNYVALE, Calif./EAST FISHKILL, N.Y. (Reuters) - InternationalMD Business Machines Corp. (NYSE:IBM - news) and Advanced Micro DevicesC Inc. (NYSE:AMD - news) on Wednesday said they would jointly develop9E high-performance microprocessors that would be commercially availablem within two years.<  ? The companies said they will collaborate on 65 nanometer and 45eB nanometer technologies to be implemented on 300 millimeter silicon wafers.s  & A nanometer is a billionth of a meter.  A The chips, which serve as the brains of computers and electronicstB devices, will be based on advanced processes and materials such asE high-speed silicon-on-insulator transistors, copper interconnects and ; improved "low-k dielectric" insulation, the companies said.l  ? IBM and AMD said they expect first products based on the new 65tA nanometer technologies to appear in 2005. Companies are currentlye5 moving from 130 nanometer technology to 90 nanometer.   & --------------------------------------  / Just another reason why killing Alpha was dumb._   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 17:59:45 -0500* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>0 Subject: Re: Looks like AMD has deep pockets now2 Message-ID: <ALCcnbOjT8zuMIGjXTWcqg@metrocast.net>  . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageD news:0N%S9.256169$F2h1.66241@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...H > http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=569&ncid=738&e=1&u=/nm/2003 > 0108/tc_nm/tech_ibm_amd_dc >: > ) > IBM, AMD to Develop New Microprocessors  >aA > SUNNYVALE, Calif./EAST FISHKILL, N.Y. (Reuters) - International F > Business Machines Corp. (NYSE:IBM - news) and Advanced Micro DevicesE > Inc. (NYSE:AMD - news) on Wednesday said they would jointly developRG > high-performance microprocessors that would be commercially available  > within two years.   J Back when AMD's valuation had sunk to about $1 billion I was wondering whyB IBM didn't just snap it up, but suspected that it preferred a moreK arm's-length relationship to avoid direct competition with one of its majorrI suppliers.  This sounds like just the ticket:  though the likelihood of a3G joint Power project seems remote, that of a joint Hammer that IBM couldwE leverage without quite taking Intel on head-on seems reasonable:  AMDeI already has dual-core Hammers on the near - probably 90 nm - horizon, butsG IBM could likely give it a major leg up on SMT plus perhaps some of itso! POWER5 on-chip assist technology.-  K The two-year time-frame virtually guarantees that they're not talking aboutrK some *new* architecture, and the 'high-performance' part seems to eliminategI Alchemy products as candidates.  If Hammer in fact needed a major shot intI the arm to help it get traction, this could well be it (plus giving AMD asI strong shoulder to lean on for the next few months to help quell fears onw that front).   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 23:19:23 GMTs# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>P0 Subject: Re: Looks like AMD has deep pockets nowK Message-ID: <%l2T9.260338$F2h1.181959@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>o  5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messaged, news:ALCcnbOjT8zuMIGjXTWcqg@metrocast.net... >c0 > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageF > news:0N%S9.256169$F2h1.66241@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com... > >0F http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=569&ncid=738&e=1&u=/nm/2003 > > 0108/tc_nm/tech_ibm_amd_dc > >e > >e+ > > IBM, AMD to Develop New MicroprocessorsG > >(C > > SUNNYVALE, Calif./EAST FISHKILL, N.Y. (Reuters) - InternationalI@ > > Business Machines Corp. (NYSE:IBM - news) and Advanced Micro Devicese? > > Inc. (NYSE:AMD - news) on Wednesday said they would jointlyr developM? > > high-performance microprocessors that would be commercially 	 available: > > within two years.  >i> > Back when AMD's valuation had sunk to about $1 billion I was
 wondering whylD > IBM didn't just snap it up, but suspected that it preferred a moreC > arm's-length relationship to avoid direct competition with one ofu	 its major)F > suppliers.  This sounds like just the ticket:  though the likelihood of aC > joint Power project seems remote, that of a joint Hammer that IBMi couldoB > leverage without quite taking Intel on head-on seems reasonable: AMD2> > already has dual-core Hammers on the near - probably 90 nm - horizon, butE > IBM could likely give it a major leg up on SMT plus perhaps some ofy its-# > POWER5 on-chip assist technology.  >J? > The two-year time-frame virtually guarantees that they're noto
 talking about:C > some *new* architecture, and the 'high-performance' part seems top	 eliminatemC > Alchemy products as candidates.  If Hammer in fact needed a major  shot inuE > the arm to help it get traction, this could well be it (plus givingo AMD aiB > strong shoulder to lean on for the next few months to help quell fears on > that front).  C Wouldn't surprise me in the least if over the next few years all ofiF IBM's Wintel products get overhauled and have a "Get Hammered" sticker< on the outside, and a shiny new 64-bit AMD processor inside.  D Of course in the meantime, 'Get Hammered' can be done any day of the week after 5pm. :-)a   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 18:20:49 -0500* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>0 Subject: Re: Looks like AMD has deep pockets now2 Message-ID: <6FKdnQ4lvqL5L4GjXTWc3A@metrocast.net>  5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message , news:ALCcnbOjT8zuMIGjXTWcqg@metrocast.net... >,0 > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageF > news:0N%S9.256169$F2h1.66241@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...J > > http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=569&ncid=738&e=1&u=/nm/2003 > > 0108/tc_nm/tech_ibm_amd_dc > >p > >.+ > > IBM, AMD to Develop New Microprocessorsn > >FC > > SUNNYVALE, Calif./EAST FISHKILL, N.Y. (Reuters) - InternationalkH > > Business Machines Corp. (NYSE:IBM - news) and Advanced Micro DevicesG > > Inc. (NYSE:AMD - news) on Wednesday said they would jointly developCI > > high-performance microprocessors that would be commercially availablen > > within two years.e >cL > Back when AMD's valuation had sunk to about $1 billion I was wondering whyD > IBM didn't just snap it up, but suspected that it preferred a moreG > arm's-length relationship to avoid direct competition with one of itsm major K > suppliers.  This sounds like just the ticket:  though the likelihood of aCI > joint Power project seems remote, that of a joint Hammer that IBM could-G > leverage without quite taking Intel on head-on seems reasonable:  AMD@K > already has dual-core Hammers on the near - probably 90 nm - horizon, butaI > IBM could likely give it a major leg up on SMT plus perhaps some of itsE# > POWER5 on-chip assist technology., >tG > The two-year time-frame virtually guarantees that they're not talkings aboutyC > some *new* architecture, and the 'high-performance' part seems to 	 eliminateVK > Alchemy products as candidates.  If Hammer in fact needed a major shot in K > the arm to help it get traction, this could well be it (plus giving AMD a0K > strong shoulder to lean on for the next few months to help quell fears ona > that front).  H Hmmm.  When I followed the link you provided, the first paragraph of theJ article (and its heading) had changed from what you quoted.  It now reads:  K "International Business Machines Corp. (NYSE:IBM - news) and Advanced MicroPK Devices Inc. (NYSE:AMD - news) on Wednesday said they would jointly develop,F next-generation microprocessor technologies in a bid to keep pace with market leader Intel Corp."  K I.e., it now refers to a joint fabrication technology agreement rather thanaK joint development of a microprocessor.  If it is indeed the former, then mya comments above do not apply.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 19:30:20 -0400a0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>0 Subject: Re: Looks like AMD has deep pockets now/ Message-ID: <3E1CB47B.A52D3E94@vl.videotron.ca>t   Bill Todd wrote:I > joint Power project seems remote, that of a joint Hammer that IBM couldlG > leverage without quite taking Intel on head-on seems reasonable:  AMDnK > already has dual-core Hammers on the near - probably 90 nm - horizon, butaI > IBM could likely give it a major leg up on SMT plus perhaps some of itsd# > POWER5 on-chip assist technology.c    L I see the "alliance" more in terms of sharing FABs. Put IBM and AMD together> to fund the FAB, and they'll be able to cist justify even more@ shrinkage/technologies which will benefit both Hammer and Power.   ------------------------------    Date: 09 Jan 2003 07:56:52 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>, Subject: Re: Marvel talks at The Inquirer...- Message-ID: <87smw3gpq3.fsf@prep.synonet.com>i  Q Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes:n   > Arne Vajhj wrote: > > John Smith wrote:o  C > >> In the mid-80's when Sun started to show real price/perfomancelD > >> advantages over DEC, it was the 750/780 crowd that was first to( > >> jump ship, > > SPARC is from 1989 !  m% > SPARC started as a project in 1984.v  D Before that I think. Someone from Sun gave paper on the SPARC designE at the ICCD in Sept 83. (Think it was Sept, few weeks after the Vegas > DECUS ) The MIPS design was also presented at that conference.  C I don't know wherer Sun where in the design cycle, but the MIPS I aeF month or so later was a few sq metres of paper. It taped out very soon after I think.   -- t< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.n@                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------    Date: 09 Jan 2003 07:58:48 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>, Subject: Re: Marvel talks at The Inquirer...- Message-ID: <87of6rgpmv.fsf@prep.synonet.com>,  N winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") writes:   > In articleE > <n9gS9.179757$yW.86178@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "Johna! > Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:   B > >That's why they sold uVMS on it initially instead of the 'full'F > >version of VMS. Many companies didn't know how easy or difficult itF > >would be to 'port' from VMS 3.x or 4.x on a 780 or 750 to uVMS on aB > >MVII, and DEC wan't about to help them do it, so many companies& > >stayed locked into 750/780 systems.  tF > It certainly wasn't my impression at the time that uVMS was anything? > but VMS (possibly pre-tailored to be installable from only 26mB > floppies) with the possible addition of DECwindows support.  I'mF > pretty sure I saw marketing literature that said applications should$ > just run without even a recompile.  D Copy over  LOGINOUT, and guess what. You could do a full VMS install( with uVMS, but it didn't by default AIR.   -- e< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.f@                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jan 2003 19:37:38 -0700a1 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) ( Subject: Net:SSLeay Perl module for VMS?- Message-ID: <P8SeclpmHNju@malvm7.mala.bc.ca.>r  B I see that HP provides Compaq SSL with VMS 7.3-1 and provides Perl@ for VMS ( from the CSWS website ). I've installed both of these.  A The application I want to use requires the Perl module Net:SSLeayeA to tie the two together. I've dowloaded the version from CPAN andqC with some hackery managed to get it to build. It seems to work, butsA not knowing a great deal about this stuff I'm not confident therenB aren't some gremlins hiding in there. There were a bunch of "-I-"sB about truncated symbols and one about testing an unsigned variable for values < 0.>  B Does HP provide ( or have plans to provide ) a "supported" version@ of this module for use with CSWS? Barring that - does anyone who= understands this stuff better than I have any pointers on thet) correct way to build this module on VMS?        ------------------------------    Date: 09 Jan 2003 05:52:11 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>+ Subject: Re: New Marvel machines? New news?h- Message-ID: <87adibia2c.fsf@prep.synonet.com>.  + p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) writes:p  2 > LOL at the thought of buying a GS1280 online :-)  8 Why? I can remember some one putting a 2065 plus `stuff' on their credit card.z   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.l@                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 21:07:32 -0400k0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>+ Subject: Re: New Marvel machines? New news?e/ Message-ID: <3E1CCB3D.691E0C61@vl.videotron.ca>t  4 > > LOL at the thought of buying a GS1280 online :-)  N At Yulara (the village next to Uluru (Ayers' Rock) in Australia, the local carL rental charges expensive rates. You can go next door at the library, connectM to the internet, reserve/book the car you discussed with the rental car folks.K on-line and save a lot of money. You then walk back to the car rental , andh3 you have your confirmed reservbation at lower rate.g  F I can see a scenario where you might get all the information about theI wildfire/marvel from a sales humanoid who would then tell you that if youkK order on the web, you get an extra X5 off and faster delivery because orders& goes tdirect to manufacturing etc etc.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 21:15:43 -0600a@ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.spamfree.net>= Subject: Re: OpenVMS BACKUP --> Restore in Windows NT / Linuxd6 Message-ID: <3E1CE95F.E6477073@earthlink.spamfree.net>   Fabio Cardoso wrote: >  > So > * > The best choice is to use a VMS TAR !!!!? > Do you remember where can I download it ? For VAX and Alpha !p  # Try: http://www.djesys.com/tar.htmls  H ...but remember, no RMS on WhineBloze! Indexed files, relative files andF sequential/variable files will be useless outside of VMS. Only Stream,H Stream_CR, Stream_LF and fixed record length files are useful outside of VMS.   -- s David J. Dachtera> dba DJE Systemsi http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 05:05:40 GMTa+ From: "David Pikcilingis" <dcpik@attbi.com>e= Subject: Re: OpenVMS BACKUP --> Restore in Windows NT / Linuxs) Message-ID: <Eq7T9.5915$3v.706@sccrnsc01>s  I Boston Business Computing produces and sells Vbackup, a program that will B restore OpenVMS BACKUP tapes on Linux and most other UNIX systems.  = Vbackup can also create OpenVMS BACKUP tapes on UNIX systems.m  = For additional information see www.bosbc.com or send email to- sales@bosbc.com-   David Pikcilingise Boston Business Computing0% Producers of EDT for UNIX and Windows: 978-725-3222  K "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.spamfree.net> wrote in messageA0 news:3E1B88DA.DC2B0C29@earthlink.spamfree.net... > Fabio Cardoso wrote: > >n
 > > Dear Sirs7 > >O > > Happy new year ! > > 6 > > Is there a way to restore OpenVMS backup save sets9 > > in Windows NT or Linux ??? Any product ? Freeweare ork > > commercial ? > G > The concept is of limited or no value unless the file is some form ofnG > stream format or fixed record length. Remember: no RMS on WhineBloze.@ >r9 > > Or just coping to a tape (using $ COPY) and restoring 
 > > in a PC ?v >aE > Same problem, plus WhineBloze does not natively provide support for . > tape, period, much less ANSI-labelled tapes. >5 > -- > David J. Dachtera. > dba DJE Systems  > http://www.djesys.com/ >h* > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/n   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 21:11:02 -0600n@ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.spamfree.net>& Subject: Re: OpenVMS VAX Hobbyist Kits6 Message-ID: <3E1CE846.FD97E2A2@earthlink.spamfree.net>   "David L. Cathey" wrote: >  > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.spamfree.net> wrote in message news:<3E1B8D12.ADE256DA@earthlink.spamfree.net>...H > > That may be confusing - the available OpenVMS-Alpha distribution forK > > hobbyists is V7.2 plus selected layered products to fill up a CD image.hG > > However, as Robert noted: if you can get the V7.3 distribution from G > > work, a friend, etc., you certainly can install and run it with theb; > > hobbyist license. Likewise, the layered products (SPL).w > K >         The OpenVMS Alpha Hobbyist Kit is in the works, and will be basedvH > on OpenVMS V7.3-1 (which should already have the discussed ECO's).  ItJ > looks like it's going to be a 2 CD set, since OpenVMS Engineering really. > packed the base O/S disk with stuff already.   FWIW....  H I now have the ability to scan any current (or past) SPL (fka "ConDist")F for VAX or Alpha and produce CD images (LD containers) for the layered- products licensed under the hobbyist program.   H It's written in DCL and it's fairly simple, if a bit time consuming: youE must scan each SPL issue twice, all CDs: once to assemble the list of3G products and the required disk space, then invoke a second proc. to add H up the space, figure out how many CD images (LD containers) to build andF assign products to their target images, and then scan the SPL again toG copy the products to the CD images (LD containers) once the images have? been built.   E The [CDROM] directory and its contents are not provided on the targeteG images, however. This may be fixed in a future version, if I can dig up 3 some data on how to build the CD_CONTENTS.DAT file.   E I'll consider putting this code up on my freeware site depending whatt& kind of feedback I get from this post.   -- s David J. Dachtera8 dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jan 2003 17:59 CST' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)5G Subject: Re: OT (sadly) Opteron servers preparing to hit the real worlde, Message-ID: <8JAN200317591617@gerg.tamu.edu>  e In article <gM4vLDhLyMCC@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes...Sg }In article <3E1B80DE.573C9817@firstdbasource.com>, Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> writes:  }> JF Mezei wrote: }>> N }>> You know, perhaps Intel (through its subsidiary/slave HP) might be able toV }>> kill the Hammer party if it were to unveil very publicly the Alpha EV7 benchmarks. }>> F }>> It wouldn't really harm IA64 since it is already considered a slowR }>> chip/failure, but it would soil the new kid on the block (Hammer) and remove a! }>> lot of steam from its launch.m }> lK }> Sadly, it would only remove the steam if you could run Wxx on it.  WhileCG }> EV7 will run circles around it's closest competitor, if it won't run-H }> Windows then the only ones that will care are research and governmentH }> environments where they can simulate an atomic explosion in near real
 }> time... } A }An ordinary desktop user does not need something as fast as EV7.V  I An "ordinary" desktop user doesn't need something as fast as a Pentium 4.t   But they buy them anyway.t   --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 21:30:09 -0600n@ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.spamfree.net>G Subject: Re: OT (sadly) Opteron servers preparing to hit the real worldA6 Message-ID: <3E1CECC1.D4CBEEB7@earthlink.spamfree.net>   JF Mezei wrote:a >  > Shane Smith wrote:H > > All it has to do is delay take up of Hammer long enough to kill AMD,J > > who're in a less than enviable financial position just now. Not that IF > > want that to happen. I'd much rather have a Hammer version of VMS./ > > (Maybe if I post that line often enough...)e > N > Would Mr Dachtera agree that a port of VMS to a 64 bit 8086 fulfill the need$ > to put VMS on a popular platform ?  C It's hard for me to fathom the idea of a 64-bit version of a 16-bito processor (8086). ;-)l  E So, I'll assume you're talking about a 64-bit follow-on to the 32-bita' 80x86 family (80386, 80486, and so on).r  G That said, if AMD manages to beat Intel to the punch (anyone's guess atm2 this point), VMS Mgt. would be fools to ignore it.  5 Then again, ... (finish that sentence as you see fit)D  O > If the semi-logical reason for murdering Alpha was to put VMS onto a platform0N > with a brighter future, then IA64 is not the right target because its futureM > is already in doubt with all the rumours of Intel going for an 64 bit 8086, K > and AMD already producing a 64 bit 8086 whose performance  may be able toaN > climb faster than IA64 since the 8086 architecture is easier to upgrade than > the complex bloated IA64.h  C Put this way: today's enterprise is built, more likely than not, on G 32-bit architecture: 80x86 + LoseDoze. There is not now, never has beensD and never will be a valid business argument against OpenVMS-IA32 forG this reason alone, not to mention a host of others. (Please remember torG distinuish between the financial repercussions of technical reasons andS$ the economics of the market itself).  B That said, if a 32-bit compatible 64-bit AMD should become the new/ ubiquitous "industry standard" for servers, ...r  D ...*MUST* I say it?  ...or is there anyone out there with sufficient# intelligence to make the inference?I  H ...and the financial wherewithal follow up on it? (I would, if I were inC a financial position to so. I rather doubt anyone here has the bux,3 either.)  C ...not to mention that if such would indeed happen, then HP will be / proven to have bet the farm on the wrong horse.-   -- 1 David J. Dachteras dba DJE Systemsa http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/d   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 20:44:08 -0600w@ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.spamfree.net>/ Subject: Re: Recovering SYSTEM password when....6 Message-ID: <3E1CE1F8.A0077071@earthlink.spamfree.net>   Robert Deininger wrote:a > [snip]I > Then VMS does quite a bit of work before the first banner shows up.  TooJ > get an idea, boot an alpha with the 10000 and 20000 bits set in the bootH > flags.  (Make sure you have lots of paper in your console printer. :-)  H I'd most likely turn on "logging" in Reflection/4 and save it to a file.   -- - David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems2 http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 20:46:27 -06005@ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.spamfree.net>/ Subject: Re: Recovering SYSTEM password when...d6 Message-ID: <3E1CE283.555385A5@earthlink.spamfree.net>   briggs@encompasserve.org wrote:  > { > In article <3E1B8631.46B640CC@earthlink.spamfree.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.spamfree.net> writes:E# > > briggs@encompasserve.org wrote:n > >> [snip] , > >> The boot environment for VMS isn't VMS. > >aL > > Not sure what you mean by "The boot environment for VMS". When I boot upC > > a CD on the Alpha, the first thing I get is the OpenVMS banner.m > B > The dead soldier or equivalent console prompt.  I'm not aware of1 > any VMS system that uses VMS as a boot manager.n  D Ah. Then "console environment" would have been less confusing, as it makes no reference to an o.s.-   -- - David J. Dachtera8 dba DJE Systems2 http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 21:38:00 +0100o From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>$ Subject: Re: SMTP mail: SFF facility8 Message-ID: <mj2p1vgthj69cfi9k2cuvdp8ot8jbd0qbi@4ax.com>  , On Wed, 08 Jan 2003 13:17:32 -0400, JF Mezei( <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote:   >Dirk Munk wrote:sB >> We construct a text file containting out of the RFC821 headers,G >> RFC2822 headers, a small text body, and mime attachements. This texts6 >> files is then passed to SFF. Works like a dream ... >rM >I've sent a message to the vms documentation folks telling them to reconcileaN >the differences between the manual and the Ask the Wizzard archive that had aI >more complete documentation on SFF (which includes the RFC821 commands).h >eJ >Out of curiosity, (well, for when I get to it), does SFF allow sending toL >multiple different recipients on different hosts, or is that the job of theK >application to generate one SFF call for each host to receive email ? (eg:e1 >multiple TOs allowed for the same target host) ?c > < >Or must it generate one copy of the message per recipient ?  F AFAIK yes. That makes sense too. Remember that SFF is a very low levelB way of sending e-mail. You can make any kind of e-mail message youF like, more precisely with any kind of RFC2822 header you like, and allD kind of other official or non-official headers. And believe me there are lost of those around.gD 'Normal' e-mail programs are one level higher up, so they if you addB more then one TO: entry, the e-mail program will in effect produce1 more e-mail messages and send them consecutively.-    -     >eN >(I ask this in the context of messages sent to multiple recipients but one orN >more recipients cannot immediatly be reached and the SMTP software retries atK >regular intervals over a few days until all recipients got their message).o   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 16:11:12 -0400b0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>$ Subject: Re: SMTP mail: SFF facility/ Message-ID: <3E1C85DC.B4610B5C@vl.videotron.ca>    Dirk Munk wrote:F > 'Normal' e-mail programs are one level higher up, so they if you addD > more then one TO: entry, the e-mail program will in effect produce3 > more e-mail messages and send them consecutively.   N Not quite. When you look at VMS mail. when it send a message to SMTP%, it onlyE sends one copy of the message. And when it gets to the SMTP queue for-L processing, it is as a single entry, and a single control file that containsI all adresses in it, and a single text file containing the RFC822 message.2  3 I guess I'll have to experiment with test programs.j   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 15:37:54 -0500! From: VAXVMS <bounce@notmail.com>t, Subject: The Boot Contest page doesn't work.K Message-ID: <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E4903027BB9@rlghncst964.usps.gov>   + Don't bother trying it or notifying anyone.a   Sue sees, and Warren's working.7   ========================  William W. Webb / DSSC/RLM, USPS OpenVMS Support Services& 4924 Green Road Raleigh, NC 27616-2800: 919.874.3043 <FirstInitialDotLastNameAtEmailDotUSPSDotGov>   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 23:42:35 GMTt. From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)& Subject: Re: TN5250 terminal emulation3 Message-ID: <LH2T9.31001$Gg2.290352@news.chello.at>j  d In article <49ff054b.0301070853.49909096@posting.google.com>, hot_pash@yahoo.com (astro man) writes:D >Is it possible to accomplish TN5250 emulation to an AS/400 from DEC >Windows OpenVMS?l  ; We had two solutions for a similar problem a few years ago.M  C 1) Use TELNET-3270 on VMS and a 3270-to-5250 emulator on the AS400.o  E 2) Use TELNET-VT100 on VMS and a VT100-to-5250 emulator on the AS400.i  L We didn't find a solution for exactly your question, but AFAIK both emulator? products were part of OS400 and the cost was (almost) nil. YMMVs  K In later times, the AS400 offered a Webserver with a downloadable obviouslyoK JAVA based 5250 emulator (maybe also out of the OS400 box) which only needs I a browser on whatever (JAVA supporting) platform. IIRC the name is JACADAf" But maybe it was also only a 3270.  M Sorry, I can't be more exact without help of my former colleagues responsibleE? for the AS400/OS400. If you insist, I could try to find them...    --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialisth E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 19:39:04 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>' Subject: Traceback and installed imagesh/ Message-ID: <3E1CB687.33AFF8A2@vl.videotron.ca>n  L Why is it that one cannot install an image with privs that has /TRACEBACK in
 the link ?  G Also, how is traceback actually implemented ? Does the compiler use onelF register to keep track of the line number, and before every high-levelN instruction, the compiler adds assembler instruction to update that register ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 22:08:58 -0500n2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)+ Subject: Re: Traceback and installed imagesfL Message-ID: <rdeininger-0801032209010001@user-2ive3sb.dialup.mindspring.com>  8 In article <3E1CB687.33AFF8A2@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei( <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote:  M >Why is it that one cannot install an image with privs that has /TRACEBACK int >the link ?n  ( IIRC, it was considered a security risk.  H >Also, how is traceback actually implemented ? Does the compiler use oneG >register to keep track of the line number, and before every high-levelaO >instruction, the compiler adds assembler instruction to update that register ?d  H The traceback is implemented as a condition handler.  The code knows howJ to walk through call frames on the stack, and gets line number informationG from the traceback records the compiler puts in the object file and theyH linker puts in the image file.  When the condition handler isn't active,@ there's no execution-time overhead associated with the traceback
 mechanism.  C I think there is some related info in the doc set, around conditions< handlers, the debugger, and the linker.  Also the IDS books.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 03:20:54 GMT 8 From: "Jerome H. Fine" <jhfineb9rv@b9rvnospamcompsys.to>+ Subject: Re: Traceback and installed imagesn4 Message-ID: <3E1CEA94.2BD9DFC8@b9rvnospamcompsys.to>   >JF Mezei wrote:  N > Why is it that one cannot install an image with privs that has /TRACEBACK in > the link ? >oI > Also, how is traceback actually implemented ? Does the compiler use oneAH > register to keep track of the line number, and before every high-levelP > instruction, the compiler adds assembler instruction to update that register ?   Jerome Fine replies:  ) I can't answer the first question at all.   B For the second, IF the "/TRACEBACK" features are still implementedG to same was as they were almost 10 years ago, then the following methodp, is used (IF  I still remember it correctly):  K (a)  There is a pointer somewhere (I think it was in the first block of thee EXE file  C (b)  A set of SYMBOL tables is placed in the area pointed to by the   pointer in (a) which consist of:>       (i)  The line numbers of the source code such as FORTRANF       (ii)  The byte offset from the start of the program of the firstD             generated machine code instruction required to implement             the code  A (c)  Probably other SYMBOL tables are there as well such as where 1 variables are stored along with the variable name-  C The key point (IF  I remember correctly) is that there was NO extra-C code generated within the EXE executable code for the program.  Thep; SYMBOL tables were able to let the "/TRACEBACK" switch know- where everything was located.   @ I found the implementation EXTREMELY efficient and rather simpleG to use in a program that also looked at where the program was executingr> when an error occurred.  Unfortunately there was absolutely NOE documentation available at the time with regard to the SYMBOL tables.n  C The only information I was able to find was in some microfiche withn@ the source code of the "/TRACEBACK" handler.  I seem to rememberF there were about 400 microfiche sheets with about 400 pages per fiche.A The source code was quite easy to understand - probably in BLISS.s  B Anything else or important you I have not answered?  If you reallyD need something that is important, I MIGHT be able to find the copies> that I made and the program that was written to use the SYMBOL? tables - assuming that nothing has changed.  Obviously the work @ was done in VMS on a VAX.  I don't know if the Alpha does things the same way!!!!     Sincerely yours,   Jerome Fine, --4 To obtain the original e-mail address, please remove5 the ten characters which immediately follow the 'at'.a8 If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail7 address has been discontinued due a high volume of junku5 e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can bex7 obtained by replacing the four characters preceding theo. 'at' with the four digits of the current year.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 22:15:31 GMT-. From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER). Subject: Re: VMS in Vegas (Was [OT] Lotteries)3 Message-ID: <7q1T9.29302$Gg2.279476@news.chello.at>5   In article <3E1AA881.4070908@nospamn.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes:4 >I say this because IBM havn't replaced Sun at eBay.  + As Forrest Gump would say, Shit happens ;-)0   -- . Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist2 E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 14:04:01 -0400n0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> Subject: Re: VMS Issuesv/ Message-ID: <3E1C680D.1760B9F4@vl.videotron.ca>t   JNeustadt wrote:D > %RMS-E-CRE, ACP file create failed -NONAME-W-NOMSG, Message number
 > 00000000    K HELP/MESSAGE/FAC=RMS CRE will give you a few more details (scroll through aw- few messages before you get to this message).u  L Are you able to create other files in that directory ? How many files do you have in that directory ?  V (sometimes directory cannot grow anymore which prevents more files from being created)  1 The ACP message indicates it is pretty low level.t   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jan 2003 14:30:09 -0600r- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: Re: VMS Issues 3 Message-ID: <BH80kz66RJyE@eisner.encompasserve.org>l  f In article <38a4ca5.0301080903.2415ed43@posting.google.com>, neustadt_j@subway.com (JNeustadt) writes:  D > Running Open VMS version 7.2-1 and recently have had problems withD > programs that have been running fine for years.  One in particular@ > when trying to conver a .rpt document to a .ps we received the > following error: > D > %RMS-E-CRE, ACP file create failed -NONAME-W-NOMSG, Message number
 > 00000000 > A > Does anybody know what this is about and how to prevent it from- > happening again?  B The part about Message Number 00000000 is supposed to tell you the underlying reason.  > To fix the failure to issue a good message, have the code that@ signals the result of an failed RMS call so that instead of just? signalling a longword with the status it signals two longwords:z   	FAB.STS 	FAB.STV  ? Once that has been done, you will get the proper message, whichs7 likely has to do with disk or index file fragmentation..   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jan 2003 15:36:30 -0600&; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: VMS Issues 3 Message-ID: <SKvsovNRIVM$@eisner.encompasserve.org>S  f In article <38a4ca5.0301080903.2415ed43@posting.google.com>, neustadt_j@subway.com (JNeustadt) writes:	 > Hi All,  > D > Running Open VMS version 7.2-1 and recently have had problems withD > programs that have been running fine for years.  One in particular@ > when trying to conver a .rpt document to a .ps we received the > following error: > D > %RMS-E-CRE, ACP file create failed -NONAME-W-NOMSG, Message number
 > 00000000  @    Looks like somebody passed the RMS STS value, but not the RMSB    STV value, so the reason for the RMS-E-CRE was lost.  Your bestA    bet is to update the code to report both values and run again.e   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jan 2003 19:17 CST' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)a Subject: Re: VMS Issues , Message-ID: <8JAN200319175130@gerg.tamu.edu>  4 JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes... } L }HELP/MESSAGE/FAC=RMS CRE will give you a few more details (scroll through a. }few messages before you get to this message).  K As an aside, you can avoid having to page through similar messages by goingp  directly to the desired message:  " $ help/mess ACP file create failed  G works just fine and only shows the one, correct, message. In some casesaG you may need to add the /FACILTY= qualifier to narrow it down, but thatl is not needed here.e   --- Carl   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jan 2003 14:23:41 -0600e- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)i Subject: Re: VMS MIMEa3 Message-ID: <dG0GFMjxqayU@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  c In article <3E1C5226.AB99552C@aaa.com>, Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> writes:  > Tom Wade wrote:k >> r* >> Innosoft was bought out by Sun/iPlanet. > & > Wasn't DELIVER once a part of PMDF ?  A It still is a part of PMDF, although I have heard there is also a  separate version.w   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 21:51:01 +0100d9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>W Subject: Re: VMS MIME,' Message-ID: <3E1C8F35.79AF54CC@aaa.com>n   OK.e> The kit I'm using seems to orginate from PMDS 3.1 13-Jul-1989.D The DELIVER.PAS file then have a number of changes (without specific< version numbers) the last one done by Dick Munroe, 16-Nov-92  ? Another file (DELIVER_DISPATCHER.PAS) has a history like this :l   ; Modification History ;e ;   0.001 Dick Munroe 05-Jun-92sG ;       Add linkage to image initialization to enable/disable debuggingY at run
 ;       time.s  ;   0.002 Wayne Sewell 11-Nov-945 ;       Convert from macro to Pascal for port to AXP.c ; F ; Written by Kevin Carosso @ Hughes Aircraft Co., SCG/CTC, January 11, 1985    7 And the original ZIP archive file is dated 28-NOV-1994.j  D Anyway, if someone knows about a later version of the *free* variant of DELIVER, I'm interested.o   Jan-Erik Sderholm.t     Larry Kilgallen wrote: > e > In article <3E1C5226.AB99552C@aaa.com>, Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> writes:  > > Tom Wade wrote:  > >>, > >> Innosoft was bought out by Sun/iPlanet. > >s( > > Wasn't DELIVER once a part of PMDF ? > C > It still is a part of PMDF, although I have heard there is also ai > separate version.l   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 09:58:16 +0800) From: "Steven Xie" <r33300@email.mot.com> ' Subject: Why LOGINOUTs don't go away???u+ Message-ID: <avil11$sjr$1@newshost.mot.com>p  
 Hello all,  G We have found something interesting after we upgrade our system to V7.3aH (ES40, 4GB, original OS was V7.2-1). When we look at our system we foundL there are 200s of process with same name "REXEC_GRAMMS" and the image behindE them are all sys$system:loginout.exe. As I understanding, when we usedJ loginout to shot a detach process, it will go away right after the processF done. You won't get chance to see a process running loginout.exe (evenG though it's running for a short time). Does anybody there can give me a( hint?D   Thanks,  Steven   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 02:32:25 GMTlL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")+ Subject: Re: Why LOGINOUTs don't go away???m6 Message-ID: <00A19ACC.C13F8B93@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  W In article <avil11$sjr$1@newshost.mot.com>, "Steven Xie" <r33300@email.mot.com> writes:- >Hello all,- >-H >We have found something interesting after we upgrade our system to V7.3I >(ES40, 4GB, original OS was V7.2-1). When we look at our system we foundsM >there are 200s of process with same name "REXEC_GRAMMS" and the image behind F >them are all sys$system:loginout.exe. As I understanding, when we useK >loginout to shot a detach process, it will go away right after the process G >done. You won't get chance to see a process running loginout.exe (evenlH >though it's running for a short time). Does anybody there can give me a >hint?  E What TCP/IP package are you running?  REXEC_GRAMMS are - I presume - AJ processes invoked on behalf of the user GRAMMS who is doing an rsh or someF such from another machine.  I don't know wny they hang; maybe there's = some unfortunate logic in sylogin.com or the user's login.com0   -- Alan+  O ===============================================================================e0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056sM  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025 O ===============================================================================C   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 11:15:13 +0800) From: "Steven Xie" <r33300@email.mot.com>e+ Subject: Re: Why LOGINOUTs don't go away???f+ Message-ID: <avipha$135$1@newshost.mot.com>e   Alan,S  I You guess is correct, they were called by rsh. BTW, we are using MultiNetgH V4.3 Rev A-X. I have checked the login and sylogin, didn't find anything" unusual. Must be something else...     Steven   >aF > What TCP/IP package are you running?  REXEC_GRAMMS are - I presume -L > processes invoked on behalf of the user GRAMMS who is doing an rsh or someG > such from another machine.  I don't know wny they hang; maybe there's ? > some unfortunate logic in sylogin.com or the user's login.come >G	 > -- Alans >t >aL ============================================================================ === 2 >  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUA >  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:c 650/926-3056G >  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA  94025g >.L ============================================================================ ===n >p   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Jan 2003 06:13:14 GMTl- From: djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall)<4 Subject: Re: [OT] Lotteries (was Re: Happy New Year)5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-fdBTj2ddeKK9@localhost>   D On Tue, 7 Jan 2003 10:26:54 UTC, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>  wrote:  I > The 'other' Camel I know and love is the UK progressive rock group fromtG > the early 1970s with some recently reissued and remastered works, whotJ > had a little fall-out with Camel cigarettes in the US over album covers.C > Similarly relatively unknown in the mainstream but dedicated fansm9 > compare them with some of the greats in the rock world.o  F Rock on Tommy!. A band I've enjoyed for more than two decades. (SoundsD better than 'nearly thirty years' - even though it probably is :-)) $ Still haven't found a Camel DVD yet.   -- l Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Jan 2003 06:13:17 GMT - From: djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall)14 Subject: Re: [OT] Lotteries (was Re: Happy New Year)5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-kDUB8mnOduFF@localhost>p  A On Mon, 6 Jan 2003 23:53:33 UTC, spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. s Feldman) wrote:   V > Arne Vajhj <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote in message news:<3E19951D.1030701@vajhoej.dk>... > [...]-< > > Smart people have found out that it is better to play on! > > numbers close to each other !j > > < > > Ofcourse every combination has the exact same probablity> > > of winning, but most people that pick their numbers manual@ > > pick numbers almost equally spaced over the range. Therefore> > > if numbers close to each other are picked, then there will6 > > be fewer rigth combinations meaning higher prizes. > >  > > :-)h > >  > > Arne > E > Hell, you may as well pick 1 2 3 4 5 ... They're close together anduE > who else is going to pick this combo? Plus, it's easier to check if 
 > you won. > H > "But wait", some might say, "that'll never come up!". But it's just as% > likely as any other set of numbers.i  C Actually in the German lottery, 10 years ago, it did or a rather a aE running sequence of 6 numbers did. I remember thinking that somebody dF might have become very rich, the jackpot was at least in the 'teens ofE million marks (ISTR it was 26M but my memory may be playing tricks). -E Anyway, in the end, there were so many people with the sequence they oF only got 106,000 Dm each. Still better than the proverbial poke in the eye...  D -- a Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 21:27:01 +0100t4 From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr>, Subject: [OT] someone knows mindleaders.com?& Message-ID: <3E1C8995.6020007@Free.fr>  2 Did someone ever tried eLearning from MindLeaders?  . http://www.mindleaders.com/catalog/sapr01.html (for example :-)   Thanks,    D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 15:46:28 -0800l% From: Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com>a Subject: [ot] Windows "defense"c( Message-ID: <3E1CB854.6030807@rdrop.com>  @  > http://www.bugtoaster.com/DW15/Support/FAQDetail.asp?FAQID=15  >F  > excerpt: "The reason Microsoft products show up so predominantly onC  > the Bugtoaster Top Crashers list is because almost every product1C  > sold relies in some way on a Microsoft provided function. If youeC  > call the function from badly behaved code, something is going toiA  > have a chance to crash. Many of these crashes are not strictlyo  > Microsoft's fault. "t  1 Ow! Who do I sue for that bit of mental whiplash?   D So, let me get this straight: everytime IE crashes, it's not really B IE's fault, but some other software?  Whew.  And I thought it was - because there was a bug in IE.  Good to know.e  . The operative term, I believe, is "tautology".   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 15:57:37 -0800e" From: GreyCloud <cumulus@mist.com># Subject: Re: [ot] Windows "defense" ( Message-ID: <3E1CBAF1.FCAD4340@mist.com>   Dean Woodward wrote: > B >  > http://www.bugtoaster.com/DW15/Support/FAQDetail.asp?FAQID=15 >  >H >  > excerpt: "The reason Microsoft products show up so predominantly onE >  > the Bugtoaster Top Crashers list is because almost every productaE >  > sold relies in some way on a Microsoft provided function. If youtE >  > call the function from badly behaved code, something is going toAC >  > have a chance to crash. Many of these crashes are not strictlym >  > Microsoft's fault. "I > 3 > Ow! Who do I sue for that bit of mental whiplash?e > E > So, let me get this straight: everytime IE crashes, it's not reallyxC > IE's fault, but some other software?  Whew.  And I thought it wasD/ > because there was a bug in IE.  Good to know./ > 0 > The operative term, I believe, is "tautology".   begin  some_virus_script.vbs  8 This is a known bug in IE.  It doesn't show up after the" begin with two spaces after begin.   endt   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.017 ************************