0 INFO-VAX	Fri, 10 Jan 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 19      Contents:( Another Partner for your reference files> As of 2 hrs. ago - Was Re: Looks like AMD has deep pockets now! Re: assembly/disassembly on vms ? ! Re: assembly/disassembly on vms ? ! Re: assembly/disassembly on vms ? ! Re: assembly/disassembly on vms ? ! Re: assembly/disassembly on vms ? ! Re: assembly/disassembly on vms ? ! Re: assembly/disassembly on vms ?  Re: Boot Contest change  Re: Boot Contest change  Re: Boot Contest change  Re: Boot Contest change  Re: Boot Contest change  Re: Boot Contest change  Re: Boot Contest change  Re: Boot Contest change  Re: Boot Contest change  Re: Boot Contest change  Re: Boot Contest change ' Cluster Alias used in Outgoing Messages + Re: Cluster Alias used in Outgoing Messages 1 Re: Con-Dist info on the web - keep for reference  CSWS PHP 1.1 php.ini bug? $ CSWS_PERL V1.1 Compatibilty Question( Re: CSWS_PERL V1.1 Compatibilty Question( Re: CSWS_PERL V1.1 Compatibilty Question Disk drive too big?  Re: Disk drive too big?  Re: Disk drive too big?  RE: Disk drive too big?  Ethermon Re: Ethermon Re: Ethermon9 Re: Firmware Update and VMS upgrade chanded device names. 9 Re: Firmware Update and VMS upgrade chanded device names. > FW: OT (sadly) Opteron servers preparing to hit the real world7 Re: How can I read files from a directory(VMS) using C? 7 Re: How can I read files from a directory(VMS) using C? 7 Re: How can I read files from a directory(VMS) using C? 7 Re: How can I read files from a directory(VMS) using C? 7 Re: How can I read files from a directory(VMS) using C? 7 Re: How can I read files from a directory(VMS) using C? 7 Re: How can I read files from a directory(VMS) using C? 7 Re: How can I read files from a directory(VMS) using C? 7 Re: How can I read files from a directory(VMS) using C? 7 Re: How can I read files from a directory(VMS) using C? 7 Re: How can I read files from a directory(VMS) using C? 7 Re: How can I read files from a directory(VMS) using C? 7 Re: How can I read files from a directory(VMS) using C? ) Re: How to use Mozilla V1.0 for news/mail + Re: Independent VMS crash analysis service. + Re: Independent VMS crash analysis service. P Re: JF and backporting features (was: Re: Machine checks not always hardware fai' Re: Looks like AMD has deep pockets now ' Re: Looks like AMD has deep pockets now # Re: Memo:  RE:  Boot Contest change # Re: Net:SSLeay Perl module for VMS? , New Toolkit modernizes RTR with java support Re: old SAP topic recovery?  Re: OpenVMS VAX Hobbyist Kits > Re: OT (sadly) Opteron servers preparing to hit the real world$ Re: Question on day of month symbols$ Re: Question on day of month symbols; Re: Retrieve RMS Key information at runtime (using Fortran)  Re: Sad news from engineering / Re: ShadowSets, MiniCopy, and SHUTDOWN - Take 2 / Re: ShadowSets, MiniCopy, and SHUTDOWN - Take 2 " Re: Traceback and installed images  VMS mentioned in Windoze list..." Re: Why LOGINOUTs don't go away???  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 13:25:36 -05005 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@hp.nospam.com> 1 Subject: Another Partner for your reference files * Message-ID: <avkerg$jlu$1@web1.cup.hp.com>  L ArrAy Incorporated, headquartered in Westborough, Massachusetts, is a globalK software engineering services firm that provides unique support to software L developers. Clients include application software companies, tools providers,: system software developers, and embedded software vendors.  J  With both onshore and offshore capabilities, ArrAy's highly expert staff,K ArrAy WayT methodology, and collaborative work style deliver the industry's J most productive yet economical outsourcing solution. ArrAy's comprehensiveD set of services help developers preserve and extend the viability of9 software products cost-effectively and with high quality.   H  ArrAy has provided engineering support for TCP/IP on VMS for over threeF years, and has supported both the Compaq Secure Web Server and the COEJ Project. ArrAy is currently working with VMS Engineering to provide DECnetK to IP Services for those Hewlett-Packard customers who wish or need to move H from the DECnet transport to TCP/IP. ArrAy's industry knowledge of IP asK well as an in-depth understanding of the TCP/IP for VMS and DECnet products H uniquely qualifies the company to provide a well-engineered DECnet to IP Solution Path.  I  More information can be found at www.arrayinc.com or by contacting Bryan 7 Jones at 508-898-9593 Ext. 2270 or bjones@arrayinc.com.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 21:55:38 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> G Subject: As of 2 hrs. ago - Was Re: Looks like AMD has deep pockets now H Message-ID: <udmT9.17156$u1K.12978@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   A more recent update:   F http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=620&ncid=738&e=10&u=/nf/200 30109/bs_nf/20420    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 21:20:07 +0100. From: "Jesper Naur" <jesper.naur@post.tele.dk>* Subject: Re: assembly/disassembly on vms ?< Message-ID: <3e1dd8c8$0$83826$edfadb0f@dtext01.news.tele.dk>  " Dan <dan@vrx.net> wrote in message2 news:6mbp1vsjfkgdu6nb8dn5qo67ear5mndl37@4ax.com...* > Ok I get this when trying to run dism32- > ' > -CLI-E-IMAGEFNF, image file not found , > HVAX$DKA100:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSLIB]FORRT >  >  > whats wrong ?  >  > Dan   6 I have successfully tried the DISM32 program found at:  @      http://vms.process.com/scripts/fileserv/fileserv.com?DISM32  F I extracted DISM32.EXE from the .ZIP file and FTP'ed it to a VAX usingI binary mode. It worked without problems (I have VMS 6.2 on the old VAX, I $ also have a SYS$LIBRARY:FORRTL.EXE).  H Have you tried ANALYZE/IMAGE on your DISM32.EXE, to ensure that it is an acceptable image on the VAX?       Best regards     Jesper Naur    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 15:21:43 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>* Subject: Re: assembly/disassembly on vms ?/ Message-ID: <3E1DCBC3.3140C93F@vl.videotron.ca>   
 Dan wrote:E > I have no *FOR*.EXE or FORRTL.*;* (or other possible combinations I ! > tried) on my system anywhere...     H The FORRTL.EXE abd FORRTL2.EXE files are supplied with the VMS operatingF system. If they are missing from your SYS$LIBRARY, then you should ask/ yourself what else is missing from your system.   N Bith the FORRTL.EXE and FORRTL2.EXE are located in the B saveset ( VAXVMS072.B ) on the VMS distribution CD   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 16:12:03 -0500 ' From: Chris Olive <nospam@raytheon.com> * Subject: Re: assembly/disassembly on vms ?> Message-ID: <bBlT9.257$Z74.1046@dfw-service2.ext.raytheon.com>  
 Dan wrote:2 > On Thu, 9 Jan 2003 17:24:54 +0100, "Jesper Naur"# > <jesper.naur@post.tele.dk> wrote:  > I >>If all the numbers displayed are zero, the program has been linked with ; >>/NOTRACEBACK (this is not the case in the example above).  >  > ! > yep, it's all zero. Lucky me...  >  > + >>>Ok I get this when trying to run dism32-  >>( >>>-CLI-E-IMAGEFNF, image file not found- >>>HVAX$DKA100:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSLIB]FORRT  >> >> >>>whats wrong ? >>J >>Is this the complete error message? The name FORRT looks like a possibly >  > " > that is the whole error message. >  > K >>unintended abbreviation of FORRTL, which would be the name of the FORTRAN F >>runtime library, except for the fact, that this is called DEC$FORRTLL >>nowadays (at least on the Alpha). Are you doing this on a VAX or an Alpha? >  > G > vax. dism32 wont run on my alpha, says its not an alpha binary image. $ > maybe I only have the vax version.  @ Right. DISM32 only runs on VAXes, not Alphas.  To try and truly I disassemble an Alpha image would leave you with RISC instructions, which  C it's at least fair to say you weren't seeing THAT under VMS 4.2 in  H 1980-something (when you said you ran this mystery command on an 11/782  eons ago.) 8-)  G The DISM32 disassembly was/is to a native VAX arch.  I doubt anyone is  E going to write a disassembler for Alphas (although I know one person  G crazy enough to try it and probably be able to succeed with it... he's  2 happened to have participated in this thread BTW.)  G I'm scratching my head on your DUMP/ASM command...  I'd really like to  G know what it was because I'm at least sure that you are sure you typed  E something like that.  EXAMINE/INSTRUCTION under SDA would be hard to  G confuse with DUMP/ASM and your object under SDA would be a dump file...   G Wish I could help more.  You're going to need a VAX (or a VAX emulator  F -- http://www.softresint.com/charon-vax/index.htm) to run DISM32.  If F you can get it to work (by obtaining access to the proper HW or HAL), 5 you'll likely enjoy the results...  Does a great job.    Chris   
 > [snip rest]    -----  Chris Olive  Systems Consultant' Raytheon Technical Services Corporation  Indianapolis, IN  * email: olivec AT indy DOT raytheon DOT com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 19:12:42 -0500  From: Dan <dan@vrx.net> * Subject: Re: assembly/disassembly on vms ?8 Message-ID: <io3s1v0abs8699fj8qr5f8h6ineju9nsiv@4ax.com>  E On Thu, 09 Jan 2003 16:12:03 -0500, Chris Olive <nospam@raytheon.com>  wrote:A >Right. DISM32 only runs on VAXes, not Alphas.  To try and truly  J >disassemble an Alpha image would leave you with RISC instructions, which D >it's at least fair to say you weren't seeing THAT under VMS 4.2 in I >1980-something (when you said you ran this mystery command on an 11/782   >eons ago.) 8-)   F it definitely wasn't alpha stuff. and I have a printout of the commandB I ran someplace. Well, ok, not the command, but the RESULTS of the command.  C I took an EXE file, ran what I remember (from 1982-4 or so VMS 4.2) E what I think was dump/asm and got an assembly language listing out of > it, with full CALL LIB... etc it looked like native assembler.  E I've been wracking my brain over this one. Unfortunately the printout E does NOT have the command, just the output from it. I'll see if I can @ do something about scanning it or whatever as a jpeg or whatnot.  H >The DISM32 disassembly was/is to a native VAX arch.  I doubt anyone is F >going to write a disassembler for Alphas (although I know one person H >crazy enough to try it and probably be able to succeed with it... he's 3 >happened to have participated in this thread BTW.)   ) hehe. twist his arm, twist his arm... j/k   H >I'm scratching my head on your DUMP/ASM command...  I'd really like to H >know what it was because I'm at least sure that you are sure you typed F >something like that.  EXAMINE/INSTRUCTION under SDA would be hard to H >confuse with DUMP/ASM and your object under SDA would be a dump file...  F me too, see above, and I'll go through my stacks of paper from the 80s and see what I can dig up   H >Wish I could help more.  You're going to need a VAX (or a VAX emulator G >-- http://www.softresint.com/charon-vax/index.htm) to run DISM32.  If  G >you can get it to work (by obtaining access to the proper HW or HAL),  6 >you'll likely enjoy the results...  Does a great job.  E I have 5-6 Vaxen thank you, and two Alpha's. But my main vax seems to  be missing FORRTL... erg   Dan.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 19:13:15 -0500  From: Dan <dan@vrx.net> * Subject: Re: assembly/disassembly on vms ?8 Message-ID: <tv3s1vgk6b9opp0qcng73u3dgnpuhonp1c@4ax.com>  , On Thu, 09 Jan 2003 15:21:43 -0400, JF Mezei( <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote:I >The FORRTL.EXE abd FORRTL2.EXE files are supplied with the VMS operating G >system. If they are missing from your SYS$LIBRARY, then you should ask 0 >yourself what else is missing from your system.  ) unfortunately it would be hard to tell...   O >Bith the FORRTL.EXE and FORRTL2.EXE are located in the B saveset ( VAXVMS072.B  >) on the VMS distribution CD   1 ok, how do I install JUST this library set then ?    thanks   Dan.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 02:18:41 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG* Subject: Re: assembly/disassembly on vms ?0 Message-ID: <00A19BAD.2672EAB9@SendSpamHere.ORG>  h In article <bBlT9.257$Z74.1046@dfw-service2.ext.raytheon.com>, Chris Olive <nospam@raytheon.com> writes: >Dan wrote: 3 >> On Thu, 9 Jan 2003 17:24:54 +0100, "Jesper Naur" $ >> <jesper.naur@post.tele.dk> wrote: >>  J >>>If all the numbers displayed are zero, the program has been linked with< >>>/NOTRACEBACK (this is not the case in the example above). >>   >>  " >> yep, it's all zero. Lucky me... >>   >>  , >>>>Ok I get this when trying to run dism32- >>> ) >>>>-CLI-E-IMAGEFNF, image file not found . >>>>HVAX$DKA100:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSLIB]FORRT >>>  >>>  >>>>whats wrong ?  >>> K >>>Is this the complete error message? The name FORRT looks like a possibly  >>   >>  # >> that is the whole error message.  >>   >>  L >>>unintended abbreviation of FORRTL, which would be the name of the FORTRANG >>>runtime library, except for the fact, that this is called DEC$FORRTL M >>>nowadays (at least on the Alpha). Are you doing this on a VAX or an Alpha?  >>   >>  H >> vax. dism32 wont run on my alpha, says its not an alpha binary image.% >> maybe I only have the vax version.  > A >Right. DISM32 only runs on VAXes, not Alphas.  To try and truly  J >disassemble an Alpha image would leave you with RISC instructions, which D >it's at least fair to say you weren't seeing THAT under VMS 4.2 in I >1980-something (when you said you ran this mystery command on an 11/782   >eons ago.) 8-)  > H >The DISM32 disassembly was/is to a native VAX arch.  I doubt anyone is F >going to write a disassembler for Alphas (although I know one person H >crazy enough to try it and probably be able to succeed with it... he's 3 >happened to have participated in this thread BTW.)   F The Alpha instruction stream should be much easier to decode than VAX.F Instructions all of the same fixed length and a reduced set of addres-G sing modes would actually make things easier.  That being the case does F not mean that after disassembly one will be able to discern the intentD of the code with any ease.  I've actually had to walk thought actualF machine code on the Alpha to implement certain "intercepts".  It's not a difficult task.     E For a moment there, I thought you might be hinting at myself but then G you said crazy and I'm every bit of sane.  It's the rest of you who are  crazy!   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 22:39:00 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>* Subject: Re: assembly/disassembly on vms ?/ Message-ID: <3E1E3241.AB5222CC@vl.videotron.ca>   
 Dan wrote:Q > >Bith the FORRTL.EXE and FORRTL2.EXE are located in the B saveset ( VAXVMS072.B  > >) on the VMS distribution CD  > 3 > ok, how do I install JUST this library set then ?  >   N backup/log device:VAXVMS072.B/SAVE/SELECT=(FORRTL.EXE,FORRTL2.EXE) sys$common:  M (if that doesn't work, just restore the files to any directory, and move them  to sys$library:)     You might then want to:   ' SEARCH SYS$MANAGER:VMSIMAGES.DAT FORRTL   H to see if the system is still trying to install those run time librariesG during boot. If not, I think you can run AUTOGEN to recreate that file.    ------------------------------   Date: 9 Jan 2003 11:39:00 -0800 5 From: Craig A. Berry <craigberry@nospam.telocity.com>   Subject: Re: Boot Contest change6 Message-ID: <20030109133901152-0600@news.telocity.com>  > In <3IiT9.40$hU1.38906@news.uswest.net> Michael D. Ober wrote:; > I'd be very surprised if IA64 requires a "FAT" partition.   G It does if you count a container file on an ODSx disk as a partition.   ; As usual, Hoff provides the clearest technical explanation:   H <http://groups.google.com/groups?q=g:thl292043690d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-/ 8&selm=30j87.262%24Yx2.3832%40news.cpqcorp.net>   G Of course various details may well have changed in the year and a half   since that posting.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 16:48:33 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>  Subject: Re: Boot Contest change/ Message-ID: <3E1DE018.F8095C0F@vl.videotron.ca>    "Michael D. Ober" wrote: > < > I'd be very surprised if IA64 requires a "FAT" partition.   M The VMS engineers confirmed early on that it does.   But that FAT will appear L as a file on the VMS drive, as opposed to the drive being partitioned into 2M separate drives. The IA64 chip will find what appears to be a FAT drive where N it expects to find such and inside will find the right code to boot VMS, after$ which the real VMS drive is mounted.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 21:55:43 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>   Subject: Re: Boot Contest changeH Message-ID: <zdmT9.17157$u1K.10187@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  = "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message ) news:3E1DE018.F8095C0F@vl.videotron.ca...  > "Michael D. Ober" wrote: > > = > > I'd be very surprised if IA64 requires a "FAT" partition.  > C > The VMS engineers confirmed early on that it does.   But that FAT  will appear ; > as a file on the VMS drive, as opposed to the drive being  partitioned into 2C > separate drives. The IA64 chip will find what appears to be a FAT  drive where E > it expects to find such and inside will find the right code to boot 
 VMS, after& > which the real VMS drive is mounted.  % Before or after the virus gets to it?   @ Just curious...how are they going to protect against boot sector viruses on a FAT partition?    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 17:32:52 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>  Subject: Re: Boot Contest change/ Message-ID: <3E1DEA77.6B27F643@vl.videotron.ca>    John Smith wrote: B > Just curious...how are they going to protect against boot sector > viruses on a FAT partition?   1 How would the virus get to those blocks of disk ?   L Once VMS is booted, the only way to change the contents of the boot softwareG would be to access the ODS-2/5 file that acts as the container for that M software and doing so would require VMS software using VMS services (aka: not M your script kiddy stuff) and having VMS security acces to write to that file.   N And prior to VMS having booted, how would you get to execute the software that  would infect the boot software ?   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:05:44 -07006 From: "Michael D. Ober" <obermd.@.alum.mit.edu.nospam>  Subject: Re: Boot Contest change0 Message-ID: <cfnT9.87$hU1.74237@news.uswest.net>  K After reading the entire thread Craig referenced, here's what I understand:   G IA64's supporting circuitry uses the same basic disk format as the i386 K processor.  This format involves one disk that is tagged in the BIOS ROM as L a "master" disk for the system.  Block 0 is the partition table and containsL space for 4 128 byte partition information records.  One of these partitionsJ is marked as active.  The system boot BIOS reads partition table and jumpsJ to Block 0 of the active partition, which contains the boot record for theK partition.  This boot record knows how to load and jump to the console boot J loader.  The fact that the console boot loader is in a "FAT formated" fileK is irrelevent at this point.  The console boot loader loads the console and E then the file system drivers needed to find, load, and jump to the OS K loader.  Pretty much a standard boot sequence so far for every OS - details 2 differ from OS to OS, but the concept is the same.  K As for using FAT32 inside the "console partition" file, the reason for this K is real simple.  FAT32 device drivers were "free" from MS and they are very L simple and quick.  For raw speed on a given disk, FAT32 simply can't be beatK since there is no bit twiddling or shifting needed to find the next cluster J on the disk and the registers can be loaded with single instructions.  TheH downside to using FAT32 is that you will need to monitor for viruses andC fragmentation, although VMS could easily have an utility that could L defragment the contents of this file after VMS itself is booted (Better yet,H this would be a system service that would start once the boot process isK sufficiently advanced so that the contents of this file wouldn't need to be + accessed during the remainder of the boot.)   J This entire issue appears to be an VMS development team engineering designL decision - it is not a requirement to boot an IA64 system, 64-bit MS WindowsK doesn't do this.  There are a few drawbacks, most notibly fragmentation and H viral attacks, but the benefits of a variable size (320Kb to 2Gb) systemJ console ROM are great.  OS/2 had to do similar tricks to boot on the 80286 with the real mode only BIOS.   
 Mike Ober.  B "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@nospam.telocity.com> wrote in message0 news:20030109133901152-0600@news.telocity.com...@ > In <3IiT9.40$hU1.38906@news.uswest.net> Michael D. Ober wrote:= > > I'd be very surprised if IA64 requires a "FAT" partition.  > G > It does if you count a container file on an ODSx disk as a partition. = > As usual, Hoff provides the clearest technical explanation:  > J > <http://groups.google.com/groups?q=g:thl292043690d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-1 > 8&selm=30j87.262%24Yx2.3832%40news.cpqcorp.net>  > H > Of course various details may well have changed in the year and a half > since that posting.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:05:41 -07006 From: "Michael D. Ober" <obermd.@.alum.mit.edu.nospam>  Subject: Re: Boot Contest change0 Message-ID: <afnT9.86$hU1.74293@news.uswest.net>  6 Via a bogus console update CD.  It's been done before.  
 Mike Ober.  = "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message ) news:3E1DEA77.6B27F643@vl.videotron.ca...  > John Smith wrote: D > > Just curious...how are they going to protect against boot sector > > viruses on a FAT partition?  > 3 > How would the virus get to those blocks of disk ?  > E > Once VMS is booted, the only way to change the contents of the boot  softwareI > would be to access the ODS-2/5 file that acts as the container for that K > software and doing so would require VMS software using VMS services (aka:  not I > your script kiddy stuff) and having VMS security acces to write to that  file.  > K > And prior to VMS having booted, how would you get to execute the software  that" > would infect the boot software ?   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 19:27:45 -0500  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>  Subject: Re: Boot Contest change6 Message-ID: <1030109192442.28495A-100000@Ives.egh.com>  * On Thu, 9 Jan 2003, Michael D. Ober wrote:  8 > Via a bogus console update CD.  It's been done before. >  > Mike Ober.  ? NATP.  If you boot a bogus console update CD, you might as well A let everyone into your computer room and post the system password > next to the console.  Doesn't matter what architecture or O/S.   > ? > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message + > news:3E1DEA77.6B27F643@vl.videotron.ca...  > > John Smith wrote: F > > > Just curious...how are they going to protect against boot sector! > > > viruses on a FAT partition?  > > 5 > > How would the virus get to those blocks of disk ?  > > G > > Once VMS is booted, the only way to change the contents of the boot 
 > softwareK > > would be to access the ODS-2/5 file that acts as the container for that M > > software and doing so would require VMS software using VMS services (aka:  > not K > > your script kiddy stuff) and having VMS security acces to write to that  > file.  > > M > > And prior to VMS having booted, how would you get to execute the software  > that$ > > would infect the boot software ? >  >  >  >    --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Jan 2003 18:59 CST' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)   Subject: Re: Boot Contest change, Message-ID: <9JAN200318594172@gerg.tamu.edu>  ' "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes... > }"JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message* }news:3E1DE018.F8095C0F@vl.videotron.ca... }> "Michael D. Ober" wrote:  }> >> }> > I'd be very surprised if IA64 requires a "FAT" partition. }>D }> The VMS engineers confirmed early on that it does.   But that FAT }will appear< }> as a file on the VMS drive, as opposed to the drive being }partitioned into 2 D }> separate drives. The IA64 chip will find what appears to be a FAT }drive whereF }> it expects to find such and inside will find the right code to boot }VMS, after ' }> which the real VMS drive is mounted.  } & }Before or after the virus gets to it? } A }Just curious...how are they going to protect against boot sector  }viruses on a FAT partition?  ? There is no FAT partition. Tere are no partitions at all. It is A just data in a file when VMS is running. That file will certainly = be protected so that a normally prived user can't access it.  @ So how, exactly, do you expect the virus to get at the FAT data?D Said virus would have to execute on VMS and be executed by a processD with sufficient privilege to modify the data. That woulkd have to beD one unusual virus, written specifically to do this odd thing, and itD would be a tad difficult to get it to run with sufficient privilege.  C Theoretically I suppose your VMS system could dual boot to Windows, A but in such a case the drive is not likely to be accessable as it B probably doesn't have a partiton table and such to allow access to> the FAT data in the way the Windows normally does such things.   --- Carl   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Jan 2003 20:48:05 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)   Subject: Re: Boot Contest change3 Message-ID: <Igc+6rVwGV7u@eisner.encompasserve.org>   V In article <9JAN200318594172@gerg.tamu.edu>, carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) writes:  E > Theoretically I suppose your VMS system could dual boot to Windows,   > Just as in theory a drive can dual boot VAX VMS and Alpha VMS.? That is not supported by the vendor of either operating system.   C > but in such a case the drive is not likely to be accessable as it D > probably doesn't have a partiton table and such to allow access to@ > the FAT data in the way the Windows normally does such things.  : I believe it will have the data, but the result is no more; (or no less) hazardous than having separate VMS and Windows  boot disks on the same machine.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 21:39:27 -0600 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.spamfree.net>  Subject: Re: Boot Contest change6 Message-ID: <3E1E406F.5C805277@earthlink.spamfree.net>   John Smith wrote:  > A > "Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspring.com> wrote in message H > news:rdeininger-0801032152420001@user-2ive3sb.dialup.mindspring.com...< > > In article <3E1C7890.6DDB2626@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei, > > <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote: > > @ > > >Makes me wonder, as a good conspiracy theorist, whether the > official boot ofG > > >VMS on IA64 will be timed in relation to the EV7 announcements (or  > lack
 > > thereof).  > > ? > > JF, who told you that you are a _good_ conspiracy theorist?  > D > It was whispered to him by a gnome from Zurich, who in partnershipE > with Eisenhower's military-industrial cabal orchestrated the man on F > the grassy knoll, all of whom were backed by a flotilla of big black$ > helicopters controlled by the U.N. > D > If you believe any of the foregoing, I have some nice swampland inF > Florida and a bridge in Brooklyn you might be interesting in buying. > H > OTOH, since there is no marketing per se for Alpha or VMS, there isn't0 > likely to be any official announcement anyway.  > I thought "the man on the grassy knoll" *WAS* VMS marketing...   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 03:00:38 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")  Subject: Re: Boot Contest change6 Message-ID: <00A19B99.DC82D030@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  i In article <afnT9.86$hU1.74293@news.uswest.net>, "Michael D. Ober" <obermd.@.alum.mit.edu.nospam> writes: 7 >Via a bogus console update CD.  It's been done before.   K But if you've got the ability to put a bogus console update CD in, you can  C corrupt the firmware even on an Alpha -- there's not a lot of extra 7 vulnerability from having a FAT partition on the disk.     -- Alan   O =============================================================================== 0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056 M  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025 O ===============================================================================    ------------------------------   Date: 9 Jan 2003 11:10:59 -0800 ( From: rrb35146@yahoo.com (Robbie Benton)0 Subject: Cluster Alias used in Outgoing Messages= Message-ID: <dba64bc2.0301091110.6fc4fc0a@posting.google.com>   E I have a three node OpenVMS Cluster (all nodes running OpenVMS V7.3-1 D and TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.3 - ECO 1) and haveE discovered an issue that is creating havoc with proxies and the such.   A The three nodes each have an unique TCP/IP address ( xx.xx.xx.11, D xx.xx.xx.12, and xx.xx.xx.13).  Futhermore, there is a cluster aliasE defined to be xx.xx.xx.10.  Two of the nodes participate in the alias @ scheme, and incoming requests to xx.xx.xx.10 work exactly as the( documentation would lead you to believe.  @ The problem arises when the node that is the current the cluster@ impersonator originates a connect request.  Instead of using hisE uniquely assigned address, it is using the cluster alias address.  So ? an external machine that has a proxy setup (or other protection ; schemes) in place and is expecting a connection from either F xx.xx.xx.11 or xx.xx.xx.12 fails the connect request from xx.xx.xx.10.  @ Does anyone know how to keep a system from using this address in1 outgoing requests?  Is this a bug or a "feature?"    Robbie   ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 22:32:27 +0000 (UTC), From: lewis@PROBE.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)4 Subject: Re: Cluster Alias used in Outgoing Messages. Message-ID: <avkt9r$du4$2@newslocal.mitre.org>   rrb35146@yahoo.com (Robbie Benton) writes in article <dba64bc2.0301091110.6fc4fc0a@posting.google.com> dated 9 Jan 2003 11:10:59 -0800: B >The three nodes each have an unique TCP/IP address ( xx.xx.xx.11,E >xx.xx.xx.12, and xx.xx.xx.13).  Futhermore, there is a cluster alias F >defined to be xx.xx.xx.10.  Two of the nodes participate in the aliasA >scheme, and incoming requests to xx.xx.xx.10 work exactly as the ) >documentation would lead you to believe.  > A >The problem arises when the node that is the current the cluster A >impersonator originates a connect request.  Instead of using his F >uniquely assigned address, it is using the cluster alias address.  So@ >an external machine that has a proxy setup (or other protection< >schemes) in place and is expecting a connection from eitherG >xx.xx.xx.11 or xx.xx.xx.12 fails the connect request from xx.xx.xx.10.  > A >Does anyone know how to keep a system from using this address in 2 >outgoing requests?  Is this a bug or a "feature?"  F It's not supposed to work that way.  Mine (OpenVMS Alpha 7.3, UCX 5.1)B works as documented -- outgoing connections use the individual IP.  L As a sanity check, do a "UCX SHOW INTERFACE/CLUSTER" and see if that node isK really .11 with an alias of .10 or if it thinks .10 is its main address.  I F have had some nodes flip to using the alias as the main address for no apparant reason.  + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.org > The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 13:21:59 -05005 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@hp.nospam.com> : Subject: Re: Con-Dist info on the web - keep for reference* Message-ID: <avkekm$jk9$1@web1.cup.hp.com>   Folks,  L In response to the statments about the URLS.  I sent the message first to myH internal distribution lists and forgot to take of the "external" off theL message.  There are probably ways to get to the web site that have the hp inB it, but I thought the information was more important than the url.   suee  1 "Michael Unger" <unger@decus.de> wrote in messagee% news:00A19B96.330B4CF5.11@decus.de...s > "Phillip Helbig" wrote:  >eL > > > There's an external web site at the following URL: http://www1.sqp.com" > >              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^G > > What's the scoop?  This "external web site" has the Compaq look and 	 > > feel.t > >gL > > Also, shouldn't such information be directly accessible from the main HPK > > VMS page?  I mean, if you sell an OS, ordering CDs with software is oneg > > of THE basic things to do. > > D > > Or is this some sort of stealth marketing again?  We produce theJ > > software, but information about how to buy it is available online at a& > > third-party, unsupported web page? >uA > Perhaps -- just a suspicion -- a consequence of outsourcing all1 > "non-core" operations? >dB > (The "OpenVMS business solutions 2002 rel 2.0" CD was sent by an3 > external "fulfillment center" called "K/P Corp".)  >e	 > Michaeli   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 09:50:32 +1030n/ From: Mark Daniel <Mark.Daniel@wasd.vsm.com.au>l" Subject: CSWS PHP 1.1 php.ini bug?3 Message-ID: <avl0ar$69v$1@fang.dsto.defence.gov.au>t  I I am finding it difficult to change configuration parameters via PHP.INI.   G To demonstrate (this uses the PHP.EXE that is delivered with CSWS PHP):d  #    $ PHP = "$PHP_ROOT:[BIN]PHP.EXE" +    $ PIPE PHP -i | SEARCH SYS$INPUT: EXPOSE)  J Note that the displayed value (amongst all the HTML markup) is 'on'.  Now I EDIT the file PHP_ROOT:[000000]PHP.INI and change the line "php_expose = fI on" to php_expose = off".  Do the above pipe|search again and see if the ML reported value of php_expose has changed to "off".  I'll bet it hasn't, and J neither can most (all?) non-'extension' directives in the file be changed.  K I am not using this with CSWS and MOD_PHP and so cannot comment on whether )K PHP.INI can be used in that configuration.  It should work using the above r in any case.  / Can anyone confirm or dispute this observation?e   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Jan 2003 12:14:31 -0800y( From: rrb35146@yahoo.com (Robbie Benton)- Subject: CSWS_PERL V1.1 Compatibilty Questionk= Message-ID: <dba64bc2.0301091214.538008c3@posting.google.com>P   On the Web at   A http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc/731FINAL/6646/csws_modperl.htmle  D it states "Perl V5.6.1 and CSWS_PERL V1.1 run with Compaq Secure WebF Server Version 1.2 for OpenVMS Alpha released January 25, 2002."  DoesD anyone have any input on whether or not CSWS_PERL V1.1 is compatibleC with CSWS V1.3 released in October of last year?  If not, is anyoned9 aware of an impending release of an upgrade to CSWS_PERL?i   Robbie   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 10:42:43 +1100W. From: John Brodribb <john.brodribb@compaq.com>1 Subject: Re: CSWS_PERL V1.1 Compatibilty Question-* Message-ID: <3E1EA3A3.4CAE8202@compaq.com>   Robbie Benton wrote: >  > On the Web ats > C > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc/731FINAL/6646/csws_modperl.htmlc > F > it states "Perl V5.6.1 and CSWS_PERL V1.1 run with Compaq Secure WebH > Server Version 1.2 for OpenVMS Alpha released January 25, 2002."  DoesF > anyone have any input on whether or not CSWS_PERL V1.1 is compatibleE > with CSWS V1.3 released in October of last year?  If not, is anyonet; > aware of an impending release of an upgrade to CSWS_PERL?t >  > Robbie, According to the supported versions chart atM http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/products/ips/apache/csws_versions.html,d+ CSWS_PERL V1.1 is compatible with CSWS V1.3o   /johnl   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Jan 2003 20:34:40 -0800e( From: rrb35146@yahoo.com (Robbie Benton)1 Subject: Re: CSWS_PERL V1.1 Compatibilty QuestionA< Message-ID: <dba64bc2.0301092034.67ce23a@posting.google.com>  ` John Brodribb <john.brodribb@compaq.com> wrote in message news:<3E1EA3A3.4CAE8202@compaq.com>...  . > According to the supported versions chart atO > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/products/ips/apache/csws_versions.html,v- > CSWS_PERL V1.1 is compatible with CSWS V1.3s >  > /johnw  A Thanks John.  I guess I gave up too quickly searching through theMD myriad of pages on Compaq's Web Site.  One of the pages I has found:  G      http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc/731FINAL/6646/csws_versions.htmld  F does not even list V1.3 of CSWS.  Thanks for finding the reference for me.r   Robbie   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Jan 2003 11:49:51 -08000, From: cdandrea@nd.edu (Christopher D'Andrea) Subject: Disk drive too big?< Message-ID: <70aee1c6.0301091149.cbc2d89@posting.google.com>  F I have tried to install a new (18 GB) disk drive in my VAX machine butE get an "aritmetic trap divide by zero" error when I try to initialize=@ it. I suspect that the drive may be too large for the machine to< recognize.  Is there some way to partition the drive or even) initialize it at a slightly smaller size?R  , Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.   Thanks you for your time,t   Chris D'Andrea   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 21:04:12 GMTd" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG  Subject: Re: Disk drive too big?0 Message-ID: <00A19B81.378ACBCE@SendSpamHere.ORG>  k In article <70aee1c6.0301091149.cbc2d89@posting.google.com>, cdandrea@nd.edu (Christopher D'Andrea) writes:oG >I have tried to install a new (18 GB) disk drive in my VAX machine butoF >get an "aritmetic trap divide by zero" error when I try to initializeA >it. I suspect that the drive may be too large for the machine to = >recognize.  Is there some way to partition the drive or evene* >initialize it at a slightly smaller size? > - >Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.A >  >Thanks you for your time, >N >Chris D'Andrea-   What version of VMS?   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM>            :5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" 1   ------------------------------   Date: 9 JAN 2003 21:11:38 GMTR+ From: Dave Greenwood <greenwoodde@ornl.gov>   Subject: Re: Disk drive too big?1 Message-ID: <9JAN03.21113898@feda34.fed.ornl.gov>e  D In a previous article, cdandrea@nd.edu (Christopher D'Andrea) wrote:H > I have tried to install a new (18 GB) disk drive in my VAX machine butG > get an "aritmetic trap divide by zero" error when I try to initializeXB > it. I suspect that the drive may be too large for the machine to> > recognize.  Is there some way to partition the drive or even+ > initialize it at a slightly smaller size?l >  a. > Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. >  - > Thanks you for your time,  >  r > Chris D'Andrea  ? What version of VMS do you have?  Older (pre 7.1?) versions had>@ specific geometric requirements which make many drives unusable.= Do a google newsgroup search on comp.os.vms for init-f-intdiv  for more info.   Dave --------------9 Dave Greenwood                Email: Greenwoodde@ORNL.GOViH Oak Ridge National Lab        %STD-W-DISCLAIMER, I only speak for myself   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 14:01:41 -0800# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>   Subject: RE: Disk drive too big?9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJICEDGGGAA.tom@kednos.com>e  ! Which model VAX is also importantu   >-----Original Message----- G >From: Dave Greenwood [mailto:greenwoodde@feda34.fed.ornl.gov]On Behalf> >Of Dave Greenwood) >Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 1:12 PMr >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com! >Subject: Re: Disk drive too big?s >t > E >In a previous article, cdandrea@nd.edu (Christopher D'Andrea) wrote:SI >> I have tried to install a new (18 GB) disk drive in my VAX machine butaH >> get an "aritmetic trap divide by zero" error when I try to initializeC >> it. I suspect that the drive may be too large for the machine toh? >> recognize.  Is there some way to partition the drive or even), >> initialize it at a slightly smaller size? >>  / >> Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.s >>   >> Thanks you for your time, >>   >> Chris D'Andreau >t@ >What version of VMS do you have?  Older (pre 7.1?) versions hadA >specific geometric requirements which make many drives unusable.e> >Do a google newsgroup search on comp.os.vms for init-f-intdiv >for more info.m >  >Daveu >--------------u: >Dave Greenwood                Email: Greenwoodde@ORNL.GOVI >Oak Ridge National Lab        %STD-W-DISCLAIMER, I only speak for myself  >l >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).wB >Version: 6.0.435 / Virus Database: 244 - Release Date: 12/30/2002 >  --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A Version: 6.0.435 / Virus Database: 244 - Release Date: 12/30/2002m   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 17:22:37 -0700 $ From: Lee Y T Mah <lytmah@cha.ab.ca> Subject: Ethermon-) Message-ID: <3E1E124D.389BABDB@cha.ab.ca>3  G I used to run Ethermon many years ago in a VAXcluster.  That ended whenlB we migrated to Alpha's.  A recent posting said Ethermon was on theH Freeware CD.  I loaded the VMS 7.3-1 Freeware CD and can't find anything on Ethermon.  Did I misunderstand the posting?: Is Ethermon no longer available on the recent Freeware CD?3 Is Ethermon that useful in today's VMS environment?t   --  ; Lee Y T Mah                        Capital Health Authorityo   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 01:56:17 +0100gB From: Michiel Erens <I.dont.want.spam@this.mailaddress.is.invalid> Subject: Re: Ethermono5 Message-ID: <3E1E1A31.78@this.mailaddress.is.invalid>t   Lee Y T Mah wrote: > I > I used to run Ethermon many years ago in a VAXcluster.  That ended whensD > we migrated to Alpha's.  A recent posting said Ethermon was on theB > Freeware CD.  I loaded the VMS 7.3-1 Freeware CD and can't find  > anything on Ethermon.." > Did I misunderstand the posting?< > Is Ethermon no longer available on the recent Freeware CD?5 > Is Ethermon that useful in today's VMS environment?g  ( Get Probe from Hunter Goatleys archive :;  http://vms.process.com/scripts/fileserv/fileserv.com?PROBE    -- s ME Posted by news://news.nb.nuw   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 22:14:05 -0400i0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> Subject: Re: Ethermon / Message-ID: <3E1E2C6B.95842A2C@vl.videotron.ca>t   Lee Y T Mah wrote: > I > I used to run Ethermon many years ago in a VAXcluster.  That ended whent > we migrated to Alpha's.   M I have a version of Ethermon which came with the source. It is written mostlycM in fortran with some bits in vax macro. The macro seems to be command parsingo (no fancy driver stuff).  K Is it still usefull ? You bet it is. When I had problems with my ISP (theiroK DHCP server would not respond to my DHCP requests) ETHERMON helped me provew3 the problem was not on my side but on the ISP side.    ------------------------------   Date: 9 Jan 2003 13:31:04 -0800r From: vadya@ibjus.com (Vinit)tB Subject: Re: Firmware Update and VMS upgrade chanded device names.= Message-ID: <95014e43.0301091331.5faaac02@posting.google.com>g   Thanks John,  J Found out VMS 7 has a sys$devices.dat which can actually make this happen. I just mapped by PKD0: to 1:? made all the devices to be presented as DKAn: rather than DKDn:3 :) Cheers
 Vinit Adya  ^ John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> wrote in message news:<1030108182151.25162C-100000@Ives.egh.com>... > On 8 Jan 2003, Vinit wrote:r >  > > Hi Everyone, > > G > > I had an existing AXP4100, with all disks named DKAn: connected to lI > > SCSI controller SCSI PKD0: (disk served by HSZ70.) Now after firmwaretI > > update  on AS4100 console, and an fresh install of VMS (new disk) allt& > > disk devices have changed to DKDn: > >  > > Could you help!  > >  > > Regardsa > > Vinit Adya > L > It sounds like either the controller changed its name from PKA0: to PKD0:,E > or that you used to have an allocation class defined for the HSZ70.: > E > If the 1st case, then either you have added some new controllers orHJ > the firmware change caused a change in the naming rules for controllers.G > There is nothing much you can do about this except 1) to back out the2F > firmware update (not recommended).  2) Reorganize the controllers onD > the PCI to get your HSZ70 controller (currently PKD0:) to come outG > as PKA0:.  This may not be possible.  A built-in controller, e.g. the.H > one for the CD, might always be PKA0:, or there might be an issue withF > 32-bit vs 64-bit PCI slots or 33Mhz vs. 66Mhz buses that could causeD > potentially serious performance problems.  3) Assign logical namesA > of the form "DKAnnn:" to each "DKDnnn:" disk.  This could causeT8 > collisions with existing real DKAnnn: devices, though. > E > If the second case, then the old names were *NOT* DKAnnn:, but wereRA > $xxx$DKAnnn:, where the xxx was the allocation class.  When youeF > reinstalled VMS, did you wipe out or retain sys$system:modparams.datG > and the file where port allocation classes are maintained?  (I forgetv > where these live.) > 	 > </RANT>  > A > *Never* ever use physical device names in *anything*, except in = > sys$manager:sylogicals.com, where you should assign logicaltA > names for all the physical devices.  (Actually, it is better tou> > put these commands in a separate .com file and call it from C > sylogicals.com. Then you can move things around whenever you wantt? > to by just editting the file and executing it interactively.)a > ? > For example, you could number all your disks from 0 to n, andrA > assign logicals of the form "DISKn:" to each physical disk, ande= > then always use the "DISKn:" logical names everywhere else, A > even when mounting them in systartup_vms.com.  (This is the old  > MicroVMS scheme, I think.) > ? > Alternatively, you can use the logical names (based on volumen= > labels) assigned by VMS when you mount the disks.  Then thee< > only place the physical drive name appears is in the mount? > command; everywhere else, you must use "DISK$label:" instead.  >  > A > Applications should use a second level (or even third level) ofhI > logical names assigned to the first level in application startup files. A > For example, application FOO's monthly reports should be storedt? > in FOO_MONTHLY:, which is defined as DISK17:[FOO.MONTHLY], or ? > better yet, define FOO_ROOT: as a concealed, terminal logicalbG > name for DISK17:[FOO.] and define FOO_MONTHLY: as FOO_ROOT:[MONTHLY].  > @ > This way FOO can be moved to a different disk independently ofB > your physical volume labeling scheme.  (You may want to put moreD > than one application on a single disk or split appart applicationsD > that were formerly on a single disk for reasons of load balancing,D > or because the data requirements are changing and things no longer, > fit.  This makes such things much easier.) > 
 > </END_RANT>s   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 23:26:16 +0100E+ From: Thomas Schick <schick.thomas@gmx.net> B Subject: Re: Firmware Update and VMS upgrade chanded device names./ Message-ID: <avksqr$v8u$06$1@news.t-online.com>n   Vinit wrote: > Hi Everyone, > E > I had an existing AXP4100, with all disks named DKAn: connected to hG > SCSI controller SCSI PKD0: (disk served by HSZ70.) Now after firmwaretG > update  on AS4100 console, and an fresh install of VMS (new disk) all0$ > disk devices have changed to DKDn: >  > Could you help!e > 	 > Regardsu > Vinit Adya  H Could the OpenVMS Version 7.1 Release Notes, Chapter: A.2 Device Naming ! on AlphaServer 4100 explain that?nB http://idun.unl.ac.uk/ops/docs/ssb71/6481/6481p009.htm#heading_a.2  < Does anyone know an url to such retired docs on a hp domain?    
 Thomas Schickp   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 19:31:38 -0800$ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>G Subject: FW: OT (sadly) Opteron servers preparing to hit the real worlds0 Message-ID: <01C2B815.BDAE3590@sulfer.icius.com>  4 From: Paul Repacholi [mailto:prep@prep.synonet.com] 
 <Snippage> >-G >Once the Hammer shiped, intel are on a fuse; they have to kill off the F >Hammers before x86-64 becomes the `standard', and they are stuck withB >a millstone that `won't run ordinary Windblose software' :) EveryA >minute brings them closer to a point where they are nolonger x86"$ >compatible, even with a `real' x86! >e
 <Snippage>  F This is getting closer. Apparently the Opteron server specs might have& been part of AMD's "beachhead" scheme:  ( http://www.theinquirer.org/?article=7091( http://www.theinquirer.org/?article=7092   A quote from the second one:  E AMD says that Beachhead is a market development programme which seedsiH strategic system builders (SSBs) with Opterons prior to their launch, in< a bid to increase customer demand for the Sledgehammer chip.   Shanet   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 14:40:00 -0400g0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>@ Subject: Re: How can I read files from a directory(VMS) using C?/ Message-ID: <3E1DC1FF.A31BEB04@vl.videotron.ca>v  B > > First I want to read all files with the format 'log_*.log' and< > > second I want to get the file with the most recent date.  J The lower level way to do this is withthe help of the SYS$SEARCH( ) system? service. (preceeded by a call to SYS$PARSE() to set things up).r  $ HELP RMS $SEARCH and HELP RMS $PARSE  5 There is an example in the TCPIP subdirectory in the o2 SYS$COMMON:[SYSHLP.EXAMPLES.TCPIP.RPC]DIR_SERVER.C    M Or, you can use a somewhat simpler higher level call with LIB$FIND_FILE (witho  a LIB$FIND_FILE_END at the end).   HELP RTL LIB LIB$FIND_FILE    J Note that the C run time library may very well include a unix routine that works on VMS. But not sure.d   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 14:01:27 -07003 From: Kevin Handy <kth@srv.net>w@ Subject: Re: How can I read files from a directory(VMS) using C?& Message-ID: <3E1DE327.8090603@srv.net>   Joona I Palaste wrote:: > John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com> scribbled the following > on comp.lang.c:c >  >>Thomas Stegen wrote: >> >>>Petra wrote:t >>>SJ >>>>I have to write a programm, using the language c. The operating system >>>>is openVMS.a >>>i> >>>The actual format string will of course depend on what typeG >>>date is (I assumed string in my example). Reading a directory is nottF >>>defined by C so you will need to use extensions (which makes it off >>>topic here on clc). >> > & >>Huh?  Look at readdir() in the CRTL. >  > H > The CRTL, whatever that is, is not part of the C programming language, > it is an extension.  >   E The CRTL (C Run Time Library) is the library containing the functionst@ for C programs, which includes the standard C library functions.E It also contains other functions; such as 'curses' and other commonly.4 found C routines that are not included the standard.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 21:38:21 +0100l9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>r@ Subject: Re: How can I read files from a directory(VMS) using C?' Message-ID: <3E1DDDBD.E3952721@aaa.com>s  < Depending on how "current" the file list have to be, and how8 frequent the C-prog have to be run, I'd be looking at a @ solution where the file search/list is setup from DCL before the= C prog is run. A few DIRs and SORTs should do the trick. Theni= call the C-prog with the "target" file as a param. Or let thet9 C-prog open a textfile (from the DIR/SORT combo) with thee  file names in the "right" order.  , Some things are *far* easier to do in DCL...   Jan-Erik Sderholm.        To "original poster" wrote : > D > > > First I want to read all files with the format 'log_*.log' and> > > > second I want to get the file with the most recent date. >a   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Jan 2003 21:15:34 GMTi. From: Joona I Palaste <palaste@cc.helsinki.fi>@ Subject: Re: How can I read files from a directory(VMS) using C?2 Message-ID: <avkopm$m1o$1@oravannahka.helsinki.fi>  1 Kevin Handy <kth@srv.net> scribbled the following  on comp.lang.c:r > Joona I Palaste wrote:; >> John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com> scribbled the followinge >> on comp.lang.c: >>>Thomas Stegen wrote:  >>>>Petra wrote: >>>>K >>>>>I have to write a programm, using the language c. The operating systemf >>>>>is openVMS. >>>>? >>>>The actual format string will of course depend on what type H >>>>date is (I assumed string in my example). Reading a directory is notG >>>>defined by C so you will need to use extensions (which makes it offo >>>>topic here on clc).  >> n' >>>Huh?  Look at readdir() in the CRTL.r >> kI >> The CRTL, whatever that is, is not part of the C programming language,r >> it is an extension.  G > The CRTL (C Run Time Library) is the library containing the functionstB > for C programs, which includes the standard C library functions.G > It also contains other functions; such as 'curses' and other commonly36 > found C routines that are not included the standard.  A It seems I was imprecise. I should have said: readdir() is a non- D standard part of the CRTL, which makes it off-topic for comp.lang.c.   -- fG /-- Joona Palaste (palaste@cc.helsinki.fi) ---------------------------\eG | Kingpriest of "The Flying Lemon Tree" G++ FR FW+ M- #108 D+ ADA N+++|lG | http://www.helsinki.fi/~palaste       W++ B OP+                     |qG \----------------------------------------- Finland rules! ------------/y "C++. C++ run. Run, ++, run."s    - JIPsoft   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Jan 2003 17:46:24 -0600r- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)s@ Subject: Re: How can I read files from a directory(VMS) using C?3 Message-ID: <+3zhwgL$0Bcs@eisner.encompasserve.org>C  c In article <avkopm$m1o$1@oravannahka.helsinki.fi>, Joona I Palaste <palaste@cc.helsinki.fi> writes:g  C > It seems I was imprecise. I should have said: readdir() is a non- F > standard part of the CRTL, which makes it off-topic for comp.lang.c.  D But someone answering the question from comp.os.vms certainly shouldC not be expected to keep track of the rules for comp.os.c, and quitec0 likely is not aware this thread is cross-posted.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 19:12:31 -0400i0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>@ Subject: Re: How can I read files from a directory(VMS) using C?/ Message-ID: <3E1E01CD.F6C5D3C7@vl.videotron.ca>    Joona I Palaste wrote:C > It seems I was imprecise. I should have said: readdir() is a non- F > standard part of the CRTL, which makes it off-topic for comp.lang.c.  E Does the C language have any standard way to get a list of files in a  directory ?g  N Is printf part of the standard language ? (just wondering where the "standard"! ends and the "off topic" begins).l   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 00:29:48 GMTo+ From: Default User <first.last@company.com>l@ Subject: Re: How can I read files from a directory(VMS) using C?+ Message-ID: <3E1E13FC.B102FCCC@company.com>a   JF Mezei wrote:/ >  > Joona I Palaste wrote:E > > It seems I was imprecise. I should have said: readdir() is a non-vH > > standard part of the CRTL, which makes it off-topic for comp.lang.c. > G > Does the C language have any standard way to get a list of files in a 
 > directory ?o   No.   , > Is printf part of the standard language ?    Yes.  H > (just wondering where the "standard" ends and the "off topic" begins).   See the ISO standard.O       Brian Rodenborns   ------------------------------   Date: 10 Jan 2003 00:54:46 GMT, From: euphoria@u.washington.edu (E. Gibbons)@ Subject: Re: How can I read files from a directory(VMS) using C?1 Message-ID: <avl5km$l8m$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>v  / In article <3E1E01CD.F6C5D3C7@vl.videotron.ca>,r2 JF Mezei  <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote: >Joona I Palaste wrote:nD >> It seems I was imprecise. I should have said: readdir() is a non-G >> standard part of the CRTL, which makes it off-topic for comp.lang.c.a >eF >Does the C language have any standard way to get a list of files in a >directory ?  # Not any way that you'd want to use!s  O >Is printf part of the standard language ? (just wondering where the "standard"n" >ends and the "off topic" begins).  : Yes.  You should really read the FAQ for this group (clc):  -     http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html>   --Bene   -- s   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 01:59:06 GMTi" From: Keith Thompson <kst@cts.com>@ Subject: Re: How can I read files from a directory(VMS) using C?* Message-ID: <yecwuldsr1s.fsf@king.cts.com>  ! Kevin Handy <kth@srv.net> writes:h > Joona I Palaste wrote:< > > John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com> scribbled the following > > on comp.lang.c:f > >r > >>Thomas Stegen wrote: > >> > >>>Petra wrote:o > >>>hL > >>>>I have to write a programm, using the language c. The operating system > >>>>is openVMS.o > >>> @ > >>>The actual format string will of course depend on what typeI > >>>date is (I assumed string in my example). Reading a directory is notuH > >>>defined by C so you will need to use extensions (which makes it off > >>>topic here on clc). > >> > > ( > >>Huh?  Look at readdir() in the CRTL.@ > > The CRTL, whatever that is, is not part of the C programming
 > > language,n > > it is an extension.i > >l > G > The CRTL (C Run Time Library) is the library containing the functionshB > for C programs, which includes the standard C library functions.G > It also contains other functions; such as 'curses' and other commonly 6 > found C routines that are not included the standard.  ; This thread is cross-posted to comp.os.vms and comp.lang.c.i  A In comp.lang.c, we try to limit the discussion to the language as-F defined by the standard.  System-specific questions like how to read aD directory are (I presume) perfectly appropriate for comp.os.vms, but not for comp.lang.cc   -- rI Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) kst@cts.com  <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst> H San Diego Supercomputer Center           <*>  <http://www.sdsc.edu/~kst>6 Schroedinger does Shakespeare: "To be *and* not to be"   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Jan 2003 20:44:57 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) @ Subject: Re: How can I read files from a directory(VMS) using C?3 Message-ID: <pGne+j+OwgpZ@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ` In article <avl5km$l8m$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>, euphoria@u.washington.edu (E. Gibbons) writes:1 > In article <3E1E01CD.F6C5D3C7@vl.videotron.ca>,o4 > JF Mezei  <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote: >>Joona I Palaste wrote:E >>> It seems I was imprecise. I should have said: readdir() is a non- H >>> standard part of the CRTL, which makes it off-topic for comp.lang.c. >>G >>Does the C language have any standard way to get a list of files in ae
 >>directory ?h > % > Not any way that you'd want to use!g > P >>Is printf part of the standard language ? (just wondering where the "standard"# >>ends and the "off topic" begins).c > < > Yes.  You should really read the FAQ for this group (clc): > / >     http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.htmld  : I am 99% certain that for jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca,> "this group" is comp.os.vms, which certainly does not consider( VMS-specific mechanisms to be off-topic.   ------------------------------   Date: 10 Jan 2003 04:04:23 GMT, From: euphoria@u.washington.edu (E. Gibbons)@ Subject: Re: How can I read files from a directory(VMS) using C?2 Message-ID: <avlgo7$1evg$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>  3 In article <pGne+j+OwgpZ@eisner.encompasserve.org>, . Larry Kilgallen <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote:a >In article <avl5km$l8m$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>, euphoria@u.washington.edu (E. Gibbons) writes:y2 >> In article <3E1E01CD.F6C5D3C7@vl.videotron.ca>,5 >> JF Mezei  <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote:i >>>Joona I Palaste wrote:fF >>>> It seems I was imprecise. I should have said: readdir() is a non-I >>>> standard part of the CRTL, which makes it off-topic for comp.lang.c.w >>>eH >>>Does the C language have any standard way to get a list of files in a >>>directory ? >> -& >> Not any way that you'd want to use! >>  Q >>>Is printf part of the standard language ? (just wondering where the "standard"n$ >>>ends and the "off topic" begins). >> n= >> Yes.  You should really read the FAQ for this group (clc):n >> c0 >>     http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html >O; >I am 99% certain that for jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca,n? >"this group" is comp.os.vms, which certainly does not consider ) >VMS-specific mechanisms to be off-topic.,  G Right; which is why I specified "clc" when I said "this group".  MatterxF crossposted to both comp.os.vms and comp.lang.c ought to be topical toG both.  (Apologies to any who didn't realize that "clc" is shorthand for= "comp.lang.c"....)  F It is reasonable that people who mostly haunt the VMS group may not beH aware of what is considered topical in clc; the best way to find out (or1 the way to start, anyway) is to read the clc FAQ.2  J Of course, there is nothing wrong or off-topic about asking the *question*G "does standard C support feature X?", but when the answer is "no, try a0J system-specific group", as it is for questions related to directories, theG right response is to take clc off the crosspost list and concentrate ong the system of interest.e   <ot>E BTW, for reading directories and similar tasks, I'd personally adviseoD writing to the POSIX interface, which I believe VMS supports, ratherC than using VMS-only constructs.  POSIX is *almost* as ubiquitous asaF (hosted) Standard C itself, so you don't have to sacrifice portability. much in practice.  But POSIX ain't Standard C! </ot>    --Benx   -- .   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Jan 2003 22:42:30 -0600q- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)e@ Subject: Re: How can I read files from a directory(VMS) using C?3 Message-ID: <NvzME4LyQhb+@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  a In article <avlgo7$1evg$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>, euphoria@u.washington.edu (E. Gibbons) writes:a  I > Right; which is why I specified "clc" when I said "this group".  MattereH > crossposted to both comp.os.vms and comp.lang.c ought to be topical toI > both.  (Apologies to any who didn't realize that "clc" is shorthand fora > "comp.lang.c"....)  % The original poster made that choice.g  H > It is reasonable that people who mostly haunt the VMS group may not beJ > aware of what is considered topical in clc; the best way to find out (or3 > the way to start, anyway) is to read the clc FAQ.A  > That seems pretty silly for those of us who don't care about C4 (but do know the language-independent calls on VMS).  L > Of course, there is nothing wrong or off-topic about asking the *question*I > "does standard C support feature X?", but when the answer is "no, try axL > system-specific group", as it is for questions related to directories, theI > right response is to take clc off the crosspost list and concentrate ons > the system of interest.u  C Go ahead and "take comp.lang.c off the cross-post list" and see how ? well it sticks :-)  Despite the best intentions of the protocolu; design, the sociology of newsgroups does not work that way.t   ------------------------------   Date: 10 Jan 2003 06:16:41 GMT, From: euphoria@u.washington.edu (E. Gibbons)@ Subject: Re: How can I read files from a directory(VMS) using C?2 Message-ID: <avlog9$25is$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>  3 In article <NvzME4LyQhb+@eisner.encompasserve.org>,.. Larry Kilgallen <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote:b >In article <avlgo7$1evg$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>, euphoria@u.washington.edu (E. Gibbons) writes: >oJ >> Right; which is why I specified "clc" when I said "this group".  MatterI >> crossposted to both comp.os.vms and comp.lang.c ought to be topical to J >> both.  (Apologies to any who didn't realize that "clc" is shorthand for >> "comp.lang.c"....)k >1& >The original poster made that choice. >oI >> It is reasonable that people who mostly haunt the VMS group may not be K >> aware of what is considered topical in clc; the best way to find out (orn4 >> the way to start, anyway) is to read the clc FAQ. >-? >That seems pretty silly for those of us who don't care about Cs5 >(but do know the language-independent calls on VMS).D  F But if you don't care about C, then why post to clc?  It is explicitlyI for people who do care about C (sometimes a little too much, admittedly).t  M >> Of course, there is nothing wrong or off-topic about asking the *question*eJ >> "does standard C support feature X?", but when the answer is "no, try aM >> system-specific group", as it is for questions related to directories, thehJ >> right response is to take clc off the crosspost list and concentrate on >> the system of interest. >sD >Go ahead and "take comp.lang.c off the cross-post list" and see how@ >well it sticks :-)  Despite the best intentions of the protocol< >design, the sociology of newsgroups does not work that way.  A Sadly true; however, some newsgroups work better than others.  NofF individual can directly control society (or any of its subgroups), but> society is a product of the thoughts and words of individuals.   --Bent --     ------------------------------    Date: 10 Jan 2003 08:35:30 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>2 Subject: Re: How to use Mozilla V1.0 for news/mail- Message-ID: <8765sxrgdp.fsf@prep.synonet.com>-  / "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> writes:l  F > The malmberg@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq.hp has not shown up anywhere yet,E > but who knows.  Maybe it hit a buffer overflow bug in the spamware.   E Now there is an idea, a CNAME pointing to a.really.stupidly.massivly.1? long.long.longer...com address so as to cause buffer overflows.s   -- u< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.l@                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 20:52:40 +0100 4 From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr>4 Subject: Re: Independent VMS crash analysis service.& Message-ID: <3E1DD308.1080105@Free.fr>   labadie a crit:J   I would tend to disagree, as I think Vms is much much stronger in the UK > than in France.v   I was talking for France. F I know about this UK jobs list. 99% of the positions are in UK, 1% in  Bbelgium, Zurich or around.t   D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 20:51:14 +0100c4 From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr>4 Subject: Re: Independent VMS crash analysis service.& Message-ID: <3E1DD2B2.7090604@Free.fr>   Jason O'Donnell a crit:F > I am curious, are those percentages actually derived by calling each1 > person on the list?  How was the list compiled?s  G I posted this survey a few months ago. I called a hundred French users aD from the list which comes from a IT Intelligence Company. I got the  results I wrote: 90 5 5u   D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 14:23:34 -0400o0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>Y Subject: Re: JF and backporting features (was: Re: Machine checks not always hardware fai / Message-ID: <3E1DBE25.C6E8F1B3@vl.videotron.ca>   2 > "Hoff Hoffman" <hoff@hp.nospam> wrote in messageJ > >   The OpenVMS VAX VMB image is built into the VAXstation ROM.  VMB hasJ > >   boot drivers built into it.  These boot drivers use the then-current, > >   SCSI command set for their operations.  M Do these drivers remain in control even after VMS has fully booted ? (i.e. isWG the SCSI driver for the system disk different then that of other drivesAK mounted once VMS is up ?, or does VMS eventually remount the drive with its  own newer drivers ?   " > >  All members of the VAXstationI > >   3100 series use version(s) of VMB which use six-byte SCSI commands.s    M Again: since I can convert my vaxstation into a vaxserver with the flick of ahP hidden switch, what is different between a vaxstation 3100 and vaxserver  3100 ?  I Do true vax servers  have ROMS where the code to display on a monitor and-H drive a keyboard was removed ? (eg: OPA0 only available on RS232 port ?); Whereas VAxstations have hybrid ROMs that can act as both ?y  M For the sake of low cost and efficiency, is there a TECHNICAL reason why theyB> couldn't have used the same ROMs for both station and server ?  J Also, from VMS, is there a way to test whether the system drive is mounted0 with 6 byte SCSI driver or 10 byte SCSI driver ?    M For what it's worth, My all-mighty Microvax II now sports a 10 gig SCSI drive G attached to a Dilog SQ 739 SCSI controller. It appears as an RA81 drive / (whereas a 670 meg drive appears as a RA82 !!!)oK And from the tests I have made, it appears to be handled fine by VMS (7.2).6  N I've not tried to boot from it though, and since it used to contain only aboutK 500 meg of stuff when it was first loaded, any 1 gig limit wouldn't show upaH because standalone backup on that drive would definitely be located well within the 1 gig.    ------------------------------   Date: 9 Jan 2003 19:39:08 GMT & From: Rick Jones <foo@bar.baz.invalid>0 Subject: Re: Looks like AMD has deep pockets now* Message-ID: <avkj4s$kco$6@web1.cup.hp.com>  ) Bob Ceculski <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote:b5 > AMD and IBM are doing what HP/Q has done with Intelm  F From the press releases, it appears that the two are not the same. IBM; and AMD appear to be collaborating on manufacturing processnF technology, not chips themselves. HP and Intel have been collaboratingD on Itanium, not (to the best of my knowledge) on process technology.  
 rick jones -- RH Wisdom Teeth are impacted, people are affected by the effects of events.F these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway... :)A feel free to post, OR email to raj in cup.hp.com  but NOT BOTH...n   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Jan 2003 20:52:15 GMTa( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)0 Subject: Re: Looks like AMD has deep pockets now5 Message-ID: <avkndv$gp02b$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>y  * In article <avkj4s$kco$6@web1.cup.hp.com>,) 	Rick Jones <foo@bar.baz.invalid> writes:s > H > From the press releases, it appears that the two are not the same. IBM= > and AMD appear to be collaborating on manufacturing processP$ > technology, not chips themselves.   B Makes sense to me.  They both have chips already that stand a real@ good chance of kicking IA64's butt.  Why waste time and money onB yet another contender when that time and money can be spent making0 the existing chips kick IA64's butt even harder.   bill   -- 8J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   z   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 15:02:47 -0400e0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>, Subject: Re: Memo:  RE:  Boot Contest change/ Message-ID: <3E1DC754.36D11BF6@vl.videotron.ca>   " I just realised the irony of this.  F The boot contest is reserved to those who are not friends with the VMSN engineers (thus no insider information). This means that for the few of us whoC qualify, this is just a random date since we have no information onf probabilities etc etc.    J The VMS engineers convinced Sue not to buy any lottery tickets because you# have no chance to win in a lottery.S    2 Meanwhile, Sue is inciting us to play a lottery...   Does not compute...aL <images of the bad guy's  computer in Star Trek with smoke coming out of itsK vents as it self destructs due to Kirk having convinced the computer it wase
 not logical).h   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Jan 2003 14:30:56 -0800o: From: craig.berry@SignalTreeSolutions.com (Craig A. Berry), Subject: Re: Net:SSLeay Perl module for VMS?= Message-ID: <7f15589f.0301091430.13c1d663@posting.google.com>t  ; In <P8SeclpmHNju@malvm7.mala.bc.ca.> Malcolm Dunnett wrote:n  C > The application I want to use requires the Perl module Net:SSLeayaC > to tie the two together. I've dowloaded the version from CPAN andt0 > with some hackery managed to get it to build.   @ It would be nice to formalize this hackery and forward it to the@ author in the form of a patch so the next person who comes alongD doesn't have to do what you did.  What changes did you have to make?   > It seems to work, butiC > not knowing a great deal about this stuff I'm not confident there ( > aren't some gremlins hiding in there.   6 Did you run its test suite and did all the tests pass?   > There were a bunch of "-I-"sD > about truncated symbols and one about testing an unsigned variable > for values < 0.   D Were these from the Perl extension preprocessor (xsub) or from the CB compiler?  If you linked with no errors then the truncated symbols probably aren't a problem.  D > Does HP provide ( or have plans to provide ) a "supported" versionB > of this module for use with CSWS? Barring that - does anyone who? > understands this stuff better than I have any pointers on ther+ > correct way to build this module on VMS?    E The only thing that seems non-routine here is that you are linking to-E an external library (OpenSSL) that may have been built with differenthE and possibly incompatible C compiler options than those used to builduF the Perl extension.  If you successfully build and run the test suite,B though, you're probably in good shape.  If you want to pursue thisD further, you may want to post full details of error messages and theD versions of everything involved (C, VMS, Perl, OpenSSL, Net::SSLeay) to vmsperl[at]perl.org.d   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Jan 2003 11:53:02 -0800r0 From: dennis.mccormick@hp.com (Dennis McCormick)5 Subject: New Toolkit modernizes RTR with java support = Message-ID: <6c585aca.0301091153.55afa42f@posting.google.com>   . New Toolkit modernizes RTR with java support.   eC Java RTR (JRTR) is a toolkit that layers on top of RTR. It providesED standard java and J2EE interfaces for RTR applications. JRTR exposes: the traditional RTR features of hardware and software highB availability, fault tolerance and entire-site disaster recovery byC using already well-established interfaces. Specifically it providesV= JTA (javax.transaction.usertransaction), java.io.InputStream, @ java.io.OutputStream, and JDBC datasources and connection pools.   D With JRTR, programmers are more productive because they already knowD the java and J2EE concepts. Your investment is protected because youB are writing applications that are more portable and better able toF integrate with other offerings in the marketplace. Customers are usingD JRTR from within a J2EE application server but it can just as easilyF be used without an application server. JRTR applications also have theE ability to interact with other RTR applications written in C and C++.    & JRTR provides the following features:   g= Provides implementations of standard J2EE interfaces withouti> requiring an application server. Ie. JTA, java.io Stream, JDBC  v? Simple integration with any J2EE application server. Ie. EJBs r  u: Simple integration with any web server Ie. JSP, Servlets   s7 Applications can use the JDBC driver of their choice.    PD Java streams which can be used by any of the classes in the java.io package.   . Interoperability with non-java applications.    E JRTR V1.0 is currently available for Windows and can be obtained fromF the url below:  VF http://h18004.www1.hp.com/products/software/ntenterprise/rtr/jrtr.html   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Jan 2003 08:42:52 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>$ Subject: Re: old SAP topic recovery?- Message-ID: <871y3lrg1f.fsf@prep.synonet.com>r  6 Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr> writes:  C > I posted a few questions to the Group on SAP in here a few monthsmD > ago which produced a couple of replies that I wish to reread. WhatE > is the way to acces this group's achives, please? I never did this.   K Snaffle the INFOVAX archive files from <someone fill this bit in please...>p   -- n< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.o@                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------   Date: 10 Jan 03 00:13:02 +0100) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)t& Subject: Re: OpenVMS VAX Hobbyist Kits) Message-ID: <W9Z++Bl6vKEC@elias.decus.ch>    In article <rdeininger-0701032111450001@user-2ive1e5.dialup.mindspring.com>, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes:oH > In article <W6CHH5rBzKWi@elias.decus.ch>, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul > Sture) wrote:  > E >>I'll just remind everyone that Hobbyists wishing to use this kit on 9 >>Alpha systems in a cluster should disable the XFC cache 3 >>(by setting the SYSGEN parameter VCC_FLAGS to 1).n > I > I disagree.  Alpha systems running VMS 7.3 or later should have the XFCsF > ECO installed, and should enable XFC.  With the ECO, you are no moreJ > likely to have problems with XFC than with VIOC.  And XFC performance is > almost always better.h >l  ? Apologies to all. I had a streaming cold when I wrote that, andrI was definitely not all with it. I didn't get the message across properly.s  J Having suffered from the XFC problem with V7.3 on an Alpha cluster, beforeL it was a generally known problem, I would recommend that folks get aqcainted with the circumstances.h  O My (possibly over cautious advice) is that is you have the ECO, apply it beforerJ booting a second node into the cluster (and probably reboot the first nodeN having  applied it). If for whatever reason you can't apply the XFC ECO before that, disable XFC first.  G Sorry, got well burnt by this one at the time, with totally corrupt andf unbootable disks.    ------------------------------    Date: 10 Jan 2003 08:30:01 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>G Subject: Re: OT (sadly) Opteron servers preparing to hit the real worldh- Message-ID: <87adi9rgmu.fsf@prep.synonet.com>e  2 JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes:   > Bill Todd wrote:  C > > where we are today.  Instead, HP is clearly betting that ItanicaF > > will succeed despite its technical inferiority (which is no longerE > > the unequivocal death-knell that it was with Itanic the First nowo > > that Itanic2 has arrived  hF > With only process shrinks planned for the next few years, there is aF > real risk that whatever catching up IA64 was able to with its secondA > iteration will be completely lost. IA64-II caught up with older E > generations of its competitors at a time when competitors are readyeF > to unveil new generation chips (such as EV7) which will quickly make > IA64-II a slow chip again.  dD > While Alpha may now be stale, allowing Ia64 to eventually catch upD > with just process shrinks, its competitors won't stay still in the > next few years.l  t> > Intel and HP might be tempted to purpusefully slow down 8086A > advances in order not to make Ia64 look too bad, but if they donB > that, Hammer will take over, and Sparc/Power will widen the gap.  ( They can't, or AMD will eat their lunch.   A > So, for the next few years, Intel has no chance but to continue.E > agressive advances in its 8086 line during a period where IA64 onlyd > gets process shrinks.   kC > And *IF* Hammer has any success with 64 bit software on the 8086, D > then Intel will have no choice but to follow and also produce a 64F > bit 8086. For instance, the minute there is a Photoshop version thatF > requires 64 bit addressing for large images, if Intel doesn't have a0 > 64 bit 8086, Intel will start a rapid decline.  F Once the Hammer shiped, intel are on a fuse; they have to kill off theE Hammers before x86-64 becomes the `standard', and they are stuck withxA a millstone that `won't run ordinary Windblose software' :) Everym@ minute brings them closer to a point where they are nolonger x86# compatible, even with a `real' x86!-  B The other factor, is it seems to take a LONG time to respin a IA64F design. 10 years for the first one, 2-3 for the revision, then several@ more years until there is any possibility of significant change.   -- e< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.e@                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 13:52:44 -0500h9 From: Hein van den Heuvel <hein_netscape@eps.zko.dec.com>i- Subject: Re: Question on day of month symbols:. Message-ID: <3E1DC4FC.5CBDA54@eps.zko.dec.com>   Michael Austin wrote:?   > Oscar Lerma wrote: > >t
 > > Hello, > > P > > I am working on a DCL COM file that will need to retrieve the first and last2 > > date of the previous month.  For example sinceL > > today is 7-Jan-2003 I would need to retrieve 1-Dec-2002 and 31-Dec-2002." > > Any help would be appreciated.  . $ write sys$output f$cvt("1-- -1-","ABSOLUTE") 31-DEC-2002 00:00:00.00o  O $ write sys$output f$cvt("1"+f$ext(2,9,f$cvt("1-- -1-","ABSOLUTE")),"ABSOLUTE")? 1-DEC-2002 00:00:00.00   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:35:45 -0500 From: norm.raphael@metso.com- Subject: Re: Question on day of month symbolst? Message-ID: <OFBCDEC87A.FE4CB68B-ON85256CA9.00767430@metso.com>Y  = Very nice...and of course if he doesn't want the time-string:t   $ write sys$output -" f$cvt("1-- -1-","ABSOLUTE","DATE") 31-DEC-2002    $ write sys$output -C f$cvt("1"+f$ext(2,9,f$cvt("1-- -1-","ABSOLUTE")),"ABSOLUTE","DATE")C
 1-DEC-2002          H From:  Hein van den Heuvel <hein_netscape@eps.zko.dec.com> on 01/09/2003        01:52 PMe  E Please respond to Hein van den Heuvel <hein_netscape@eps.zko.dec.com>m   To:    Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com cc:h  0 Subject:    Re: Question on day of month symbols         Michael Austin wrote:    > Oscar Lerma wrote: > >m
 > > Hello, > >hK > > I am working on a DCL COM file that will need to retrieve the first and  last2 > > date of the previous month.  For example since? > > today is 7-Jan-2003 I would need to retrieve 1-Dec-2002 andg 31-Dec-2002." > > Any help would be appreciated.  . $ write sys$output f$cvt("1-- -1-","ABSOLUTE") 31-DEC-2002 00:00:00.00a  1 $ write sys$output f$cvt("1"+f$ext(2,9,f$cvt("1--> -1-","ABSOLUTE")),"ABSOLUTE")o 1-DEC-2002 00:00:00.00   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 00:39:55 -0500o$ From: Hein <hein_cov@eps.zk.dec.com>D Subject: Re: Retrieve RMS Key information at runtime (using Fortran). Message-ID: <3E1E5CAB.F03DCB26@eps.zk.dec.com>  A > I want to retrieve information about the keys in an RMS file atgF > runtime, i.e. number, size, positions, whether they are segmented or: > not, etc. Currently we are using Fortran (Compaq Fortran0 > V7.4A-1588-46B4K) as our programming language.  P Officially, and talking pure fortran OPEN wht you have to do is use a USER_OPEN.; In there pick up the pointer to the XAB chain from the FAB.-F Walk the chain (if any) looking for an XABSUM (if any) and/or XABKEYs.O Use the XABs you find, add those you need, then $DISPLAY and save desired data.oJ When done you must remove any XABs from the xab chain that you have added.  P Instead, for the purpose of a generic access routine, I would suggest NOT to useI the OPEN but to call RMS directly. Something along the lines of SHOWROOTS ) that I have put in the RMS documentation:OQ    http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc/731FINAL/4523/4523pro_003.html#hll_show_rootO   > H > Another solution could be to use LIB$SPAWN and then create an FDL fileF > using something like this: $analyze/rms_file /fdl myindexedfile.ind.  U Yuck, don't spawn. Call FDL$GENERATE directly if you must, but then you have to parseeP the result as you point out. Then you'd be better of calling FDL$PARSE to createE an fab/rab and xab's and gleam the info needed from those xab's. See:eN   http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc/731FINAL/4493/4493pro_024.html#index_x_317J I'll attach an old note with an example calling FDL$GENERATE from fortran.   Met vriendelijke groeten,nH (stuur me een mailtje, hein at hp punt com als he er nog niet uit komt.)   Hein.o   Notes>  P ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????P Note 1963.11                       ANA/RMS/FDL                          11 of 18P HEIN::VANDENHEUVEL "EIC, Valbonne."                  54 lines  12-JUL-1990 05:214                              -< One way to do it. >-P ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????  H I am quit surprised/dissapointed to see that FDBL$GENERATE does not seem; to take a static string. I feel like verifying the sources.  Anyway,rH Supposedly the FORTRAN USERSGUIDE will explain you how to deal best with0 (dynamic) string descriptors from that language.J One approach is to declare a descripotor structure and fill in the fields.H I had expected to find a nice & easy descriptor prototype in $DSCDEF butL the closest I can get there is the DSCDEF1 record which uses DSC$W_MAXSTRLEN@ instead of the DSC$W_LENGHT that iI'd like to see at that place. I must be missing somehting...   Working code included.   Regards,         Hein        PROGRAM FDL   #         IMPLICIT    INTEGER*4 (A-Z)e         INCLUDE     '($FDLDEF)'-         INCLUDE     '($DSCDEF)'n"         RECORD /DSCDEF1/ FDLSTR_DXH         EXTERNAL    LIB$GET_LUN,LIB$STOP,FOR$RAB,FDL$GENERATE,FDL$CREATE"         EXTERNAL    LIB$SCOPY_DXDX         CHARACTER   INFILE*32s         CHARACTER   FDLSTR*2000R$         FDLSTR_DX.DSC$W_MAXSTRLEN= 0-         FDLSTR_DX.DSC$B_DTYPE = DSC$K_DTYPE_T:-         FDLSTR_DX.DSC$B_CLASS = DSC$K_CLASS_Dy#         FDLSTR_DX.DSC$A_POINTER = 0r%         READ(UNIT=5,FMT='(A)') INFILE?$         STS = LIB$GET_LUN(FILE_UNIT)/         IF (.NOT. STS) CALL LIB$STOP(%VAL(STS))a5         OPEN(UNIT=FILE_UNIT,FILE=INFILE,STATUS='OLD')k          RAB = FOR$RAB(FILE_UNIT)         FAB = GETFAB(%VAL(RAB))e7 *       STS = FDL$GENERATE(0,FAB,RAB,'SYS$OUTPUT:',,,,)kB         STS = FDL$GENERATE(FDL$M_FDL_STRING,FAB,RAB,,,FDLSTR_DX,,)/         IF (.NOT. STS) CALL LIB$STOP(%VAL(STS))c/         STS = LIB$SCOPY_DXDX (FDLSTR_DX,FDLSTR) /         IF (.NOT. STS) CALL LIB$STOP(%VAL(STS))p         CLOSE(UNIT=FILE_UNIT)-         TYPE *,FDLSTR0           END2  &         INTEGER*4 FUNCTION GETFAB(RAB)  #         IMPLICIT    INTEGER*4 (A-Z)n         INCLUDE     '($RABDEF)'S         RECORD /RABDEF/ RAB0           GETFAB = RAB.RAB$L_FAB           END    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 22:20:32 -0500 $ From: Hein <hein_cov@eps.zk.dec.com>& Subject: Re: Sad news from engineering. Message-ID: <3E1E3C00.9E864744@eps.zk.dec.com>  9   > Pat Taylor DECnet engineer died tragically this week.t  = Pat was a dear friend and collegea to me for almost 20 years.t' Our families spend this Xmass together.-= The day after Xmass we watched her son surf the cold waves in < safety and comfort protected by a full wetsuit (head, boots,7 gloves) on the very beach that became fatal days later.3   "David J. Dachtera" wrote:F > Truly, this woman never forgot the truest values in all of humanity.  8 She was one of the best. The 300+  people present at theC funeral yesterday acknoledged that. Always helping, always a smile.    JF Mezei wrote:g  9 > even an olympic swimmer couldn't tow them back to shoret8 > especially not in street clothes, even in warm waters.  I indeed. Two adult rescuers, in wetsuit and with a boat (too small?) triedcI and failed. Her son, an athletic 16 year old, in wetuit tried and failed.-  > > Isn't it possible that she fell into the sea/swept by a wave3 > at which point her safest course of action was tonR > reach the kids on the surfboards instead of risking being thrown against rocks ?  F At this point we believe she tried the help her daughter from crashing@ into the rocks. That she did not dive in, but fell in. Horrible.   Sadness.   Hein.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 22:13:06 +0100 + From: Thomas Schick <schick.thomas@gmx.net>c8 Subject: Re: ShadowSets, MiniCopy, and SHUTDOWN - Take 2/ Message-ID: <avkohm$qle$06$1@news.t-online.com>    Robbie Benton wrote: > Each system has a commanda > C >    MOUNT/SYSTEM/NOASSIST  DSA0:/SHADOW=($31$DKA200:,$32$DKA200:) f >  What about with: !                   VeE      $MOUNT/cluster/NOASSIST DSA0:/SHADOW=($31$DKA200:,$32$DKA200:) -q-                     /policy=minicopy=optional-   > ) >    dism/cluster $31$DKA200:/policy=mini  >                      !< Does               V*      $dism/cluster $32$DKA200:/policy=mini3 work better?  Problem with the master member ?  :-\o    
 Thomas Schickk   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Jan 2003 09:04:04 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>8 Subject: Re: ShadowSets, MiniCopy, and SHUTDOWN - Take 2- Message-ID: <87smw1q0hn.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   * rrb35146@yahoo.com (Robbie Benton) writes:  F > What I desire is to reboot NODEA without incurring a full shadow setC > copy operation.  So, before the shutdown of NODEA I performed thep > following on NODEB:y  9 You will hang IO to the shadowset, but what about settings2 SHADOW_MBR_TMO to a `suitable' value then bouncing
 the node?   A I thought you needed a HSC/D/J to get the benefits of mini-merge?    -- p< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.b@                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 14:45:42 -0400a0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>+ Subject: Re: Traceback and installed imagesi/ Message-ID: <3E1DC354.4846A024@vl.videotron.ca>I   briggs@encompasserve.org wrote: F > handler.  Most of them will just trigger a stack dump.  But a signalD > of SS$_DEBUG will cause the traceback handler to map the debugger.C > And handing a user access to a debugger within a privileged imaged6 > is tantamount to handing him the keys to the system.  L Ok thanks to the explanation. In this case, wouldn't it have been better forJ the VMS engineers to disable SS$DEBUG handling if the image is installed ?  N I realise that you can't change the exit handler of old images, but they couldK change the debugger code to prevent it from running when invoked by an exitw* handler of an image installed with privs ?   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 15:56:30 -0600, From: "Art Beane" <art.beane@mindspring.com>) Subject: VMS mentioned in Windoze list...n1 Message-ID: <002001c2b829$f7e14220$a77ba8c0@artb>f  
 Forwarded:   -----Original Message-----' From: COMPUTING_owner@ultratech-llc.comsE [mailto:COMPUTING_owner@ultratech-llc.com] On Behalf Of Martin Reillyu( Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 3:45 PM To: COMPUTING@ultratech-llc.com # Subject: RE: Backup Exec 8.6 and XPo    1 VMS Backup, like many things about VMS, rocks. :)F  I I still have seven VMS machines in my environment. VMS is the most stabled, and reliable platform I've ever worked with.   > -----Original Message-----) > From: COMPUTING_owner@ultratech-llc.comsH > [mailto:COMPUTING_owner@ultratech-llc.com] On Behalf Of Carl Friedberg > Sent: 09 January 2003 21:080! > To: COMPUTING@ultratech-llc.como% > Subject: RE: Backup Exec 8.6 and XPn >  > = > I used to resell Backup Exec; they have a "one to show, one18 > to go" program, and I've been using it over the years. > ; > Like so much other software, it's got way too much bloat.r > / > How many of you are familiar with VMS Backup?u > > > These days, to backup a system drive on VMS, you boot to theH > distribution CD, go into standalone command mode, execute a one liner: > % > $ Backup/image/verify dka0: dka100:f > > > and 20 minutes later, you have a perfect, defragmented copy. > > > You can also backup to a "save set" which could be on either@ > another disk, or a tape, and then restore the same, from disk ? > or tape back to the replacement system disk. I've done it so t= > many times I could do it in my sleep. It has never failed,   > not even hiccupped...g > ? > I was hoping that Backup Execs Disaster Recovery option would>. > work the same way, but it doesn't appear to. > E > Is there anything like this for windows which really, really works?I >  > I'm afraid I know the answer.n > : > I know one consultant, who is very smart; he is using PQ? > Drive Image to backup his windoze machines to a SNAP server; ,? > and he sync's that with another SNAP server at a remote site." >  >  > Carl  E --------------------------------------------------------------------- I  AB'S COMPUTING LIST is hosted on a Windows 2000(TM) machine running  theaC VPOP3 POP3/SMTP/LIST Server from http://www.pscs.co.uk/  List Info:r5 http://www.ultratech-llc.com/Personal/Charter_CO.htmlcE =====================================================================t   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Jan 2003 16:02:20 -0600a; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)u+ Subject: Re: Why LOGINOUTs don't go away???i3 Message-ID: <Ikq2YcG$k$aD@eisner.encompasserve.org>r   In article <00A19ACC.C13F8B93@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>, winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") writes:rY > In article <avil11$sjr$1@newshost.mot.com>, "Steven Xie" <r33300@email.mot.com> writes:  >>Hello all, >>I >>We have found something interesting after we upgrade our system to V7.3sJ >>(ES40, 4GB, original OS was V7.2-1). When we look at our system we foundN >>there are 200s of process with same name "REXEC_GRAMMS" and the image behindG >>them are all sys$system:loginout.exe. As I understanding, when we useiL >>loginout to shot a detach process, it will go away right after the processH >>done. You won't get chance to see a process running loginout.exe (evenI >>though it's running for a short time). Does anybody there can give me ah >>hint?u > G > What TCP/IP package are you running?  REXEC_GRAMMS are - I presume -  L > processes invoked on behalf of the user GRAMMS who is doing an rsh or someH > such from another machine.  I don't know wny they hang; maybe there's ? > some unfortunate logic in sylogin.com or the user's login.com   E    There doesn't happen to by an rsh in his login.com, does there?  I E    had something similar when someone put a DECnet reference to thier G    own node in their login.com.  The network process login, of course, F    ran login.com ...   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.019 ************************lls on VMS).  L > Of course, there is nothing wrong or off-topic about asking the *question*I > "does standard C support feature X?", but when the answer is "no, try axL > system-specific group", as it is for questions related to directories, theI > right response is to take clc off the crosspos@֪    A֪    B֪    C֪    D֪    E֪    F֪    G֪    H֪    I֪    J֪    K֪    L֪    M֪    N֪    O֪    P֪    Q֪    R֪    S֪    T֪    U֪    V֪    W֪    X֪    Y֪    Z֪    [֪    \֪    ]֪    ^֪    _֪    `֪    a֪    b֪    c֪    d֪    e֪    f֪    g֪    h֪    i֪    j֪    k֪    l֪    m֪    n֪    o֪    p֪    q֪    r֪    s֪    t֪    u֪    v֪    w֪    x֪    y֪    z֪    {֪    |֪    }֪    ~֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    Ñ֪    đ֪    ő֪    Ƒ֪    Ǒ֪    ȑ֪    ɑ֪    ʑ֪    ˑ֪    ֪̑    ֪͑    Α֪    ϑ֪    Б֪    ё֪    ґ֪    ӑ֪    ԑ֪    Ց֪    ֑֪    ב֪    ֪ؑ    ّ֪    ڑ֪    ۑ֪    ܑ֪    ݑ֪    ޑ֪    ߑ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    ֪    