0 INFO-VAX	Wed, 15 Jan 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 29      Contents: AS400 & Open VMS Re: AS400 & Open VMS RE: AS400 & Open VMS RE: AS400 & Open VMS RE: AS400 & Open VMS! Re: assembly/disassembly on vms ? * RE: decnet  - mailbox programming question* Re: decnet  - mailbox programming question DS10 Sale this month% Re: Going totally crazy - please help % RE: Going totally crazy - please help % Re: Going totally crazy - please help % RE: Going totally crazy - please help % RE: Going totally crazy - please help % Re: Going totally crazy - please help % Re: Going totally crazy - please help % Re: Going totally crazy - please help ! Going totally crazy - please help % Re: Going totally crazy - please help % Re: Going totally crazy - please help % RE: Going totally crazy - please help J Re: How much disk I/O can I do with a sys$QIOW IO$_WRITEVBLK/IO$_READVBLK?J Re: How much disk I/O can I do with a sys$QIOW IO$_WRITEVBLK/IO$_READVBLK?( How to flash VAXstation 4000/90 FEPROMS?, Re: How to flash VAXstation 4000/90 FEPROMS?- Re: HP Sets the Stage for Alpha's Last Hurrah - Re: HP Sets the Stage for Alpha's Last Hurrah = Re: HSG-80 firmware, version 8.7-1F... anybody installed yet? = Re: HSG-80 firmware, version 8.7-1F... anybody installed yet? . Re: Most common OpenVMS versions in use today?. Re: Most common OpenVMS versions in use today?. Re: Most common OpenVMS versions in use today?. RE: Most common OpenVMS versions in use today?. Re: Most common OpenVMS versions in use today?. Re: Most common OpenVMS versions in use today?. Re: Most common OpenVMS versions in use today? Re: Network install of VMS Re: Network troubleshooters  Re: Newbie to OpenVMS., No mention of Digital in official HP history" OpenVMS for AlphaStation 200 4/233& RE: OpenVMS for AlphaStation 200 4/233& Re: OpenVMS for AlphaStation 200 4/233& RE: OpenVMS for AlphaStation 200 4/233& RE: OpenVMS for AlphaStation 200 4/233& Re: OpenVMS for AlphaStation 200 4/233& RE: OpenVMS for AlphaStation 200 4/233 Product kit question QIO lengths  Re: QIO lengths  Re: Reading file in DCL  Re: Reading file in DCL  Re: Reading file in DCL  Re: Reading file in DCL  Re: Reading file in DCL  Re: Reading file in DCL ; Re: Retrieve RMS Key information at runtime (using Fortran) 9 searching for seemingly obscure disk activity light cable  Re: smtp to vmsmail  Re: smtp to vmsmail  Re: smtp to vmsmail $ Re: Software distribution technologyP Re: The manual says "Do not use QIO for reading from a file" has anyone heard ofP Re: The manual says "Do not use QIO for reading from a file" has anyone heard ofP Re: The manual says "Do not use QIO for reading from a file" has anyone heard of% Re: VMS on Itanic boot report sighted % Re: VMS on Itanic boot report sighted % Re: VMS on Itanic boot report sighted   Re: Webserver advice for VAX/VMS  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 14 Jan 2003 11:02:02 -0800' From: taupin974@hotmail.com (taupin974)  Subject: AS400 & Open VMS = Message-ID: <f948cf20.0301141102.605d212f@posting.google.com>    HiM I'd like to know if i can install open vms operating system on an AS400 (ibm)    Thx    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 20:06:13 +0100 6 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk> Subject: Re: AS400 & Open VMS ) Message-ID: <3E245FA5.9000203@vajhoej.dk>    taupin974 wrote:O > I'd like to know if i can install open vms operating system on an AS400 (ibm)    No.    Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 11:10:19 -0800 $ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> Subject: RE: AS400 & Open VMS 0 Message-ID: <01C2BBBD.9C7F32B0@sulfer.icius.com>  H No. VAX, Alpha, or soon Itanium systems only. Or there's a VAX simulator> for PC's that will run it. Sorry, I don't have the link handy.  C If you're serious about wanting to try it, my advice is to go get a < cheap Alpha on eBay, and sign up for the hobbyist program atF montagar.com. You'll need to get an encompass membership first; if youD look hard enough on their website you'll find a link for a free one.E Don't get suckered into paying, they try really hard to hide the free  link.    Shane    -----Original Message-----: From: taupin974@hotmail.com [mailto:taupin974@hotmail.com]( Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 11:02 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  Subject: AS400 & Open VMS      HiG I'd like to know if i can install open vms operating system on an AS400  (ibm)    Thx    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 02:41:30 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") Subject: RE: AS400 & Open VMS 6 Message-ID: <00A19F85.04924B15@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  W In article <01C2BBBD.9C7F32B0@sulfer.icius.com>, Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> writes: I >No. VAX, Alpha, or soon Itanium systems only. Or there's a VAX simulator ? >for PC's that will run it. Sorry, I don't have the link handy.  > D >If you're serious about wanting to try it, my advice is to go get a= >cheap Alpha on eBay, and sign up for the hobbyist program at G >montagar.com. You'll need to get an encompass membership first; if you E >look hard enough on their website you'll find a link for a free one. F >Don't get suckered into paying, they try really hard to hide the free >link. >   J I didn't have any problem at all finding the "associate" membership, whichM explicitly says it works for the Hobbyist license, so I think this is kind of  an unjustified slam.   -- Alan   O =============================================================================== 0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056 M  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025 O ===============================================================================    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 18:47:09 -0800 $ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> Subject: RE: AS400 & Open VMS 0 Message-ID: <01C2BBFD.7AAF1610@sulfer.icius.com>  E It took me half an hour to find it when I needed it a few months ago. G Maybe it's just an outdated slam. I still haven't received my ID though C despite several follow-up emails, so I'm still not happy with them.    Shane    -----Original Message-----$ From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU' [mailto:winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU] ' Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 6:42 PM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  Subject: RE: AS400 & Open VMS     < In article <01C2BBBD.9C7F32B0@sulfer.icius.com>, Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> writes:I >No. VAX, Alpha, or soon Itanium systems only. Or there's a VAX simulator ? >for PC's that will run it. Sorry, I don't have the link handy.  > D >If you're serious about wanting to try it, my advice is to go get a= >cheap Alpha on eBay, and sign up for the hobbyist program at G >montagar.com. You'll need to get an encompass membership first; if you E >look hard enough on their website you'll find a link for a free one. F >Don't get suckered into paying, they try really hard to hide the free >link. >   D I didn't have any problem at all finding the "associate" membership, which E explicitly says it works for the Hobbyist license, so I think this is  kind of  an unjustified slam.   -- Alan   H ======================================================================== ======= 0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU?  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056E  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA  94025 H ======================================================================== =======    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 16:07:15 GMT 9 From: Alan Adams <alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk> * Subject: Re: assembly/disassembly on vms ?? Message-ID: <0e8e3ab44b.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>   7 In message <io3s1v0abs8699fj8qr5f8h6ineju9nsiv@4ax.com> "           Dan <dan@vrx.net> wrote:  G > On Thu, 09 Jan 2003 16:12:03 -0500, Chris Olive <nospam@raytheon.com>  > wrote:C > >Right. DISM32 only runs on VAXes, not Alphas.  To try and truly  L > >disassemble an Alpha image would leave you with RISC instructions, which F > >it's at least fair to say you weren't seeing THAT under VMS 4.2 in K > >1980-something (when you said you ran this mystery command on an 11/782   > >eons ago.) 8-)  > H > it definitely wasn't alpha stuff. and I have a printout of the commandD > I ran someplace. Well, ok, not the command, but the RESULTS of the
 > command. > E > I took an EXE file, ran what I remember (from 1982-4 or so VMS 4.2) G > what I think was dump/asm and got an assembly language listing out of @ > it, with full CALL LIB... etc it looked like native assembler.  A Could it have been PATCH? That would also disassemble on VAX VMS.    > G > I've been wracking my brain over this one. Unfortunately the printout G > does NOT have the command, just the output from it. I'll see if I can B > do something about scanning it or whatever as a jpeg or whatnot. > J > >The DISM32 disassembly was/is to a native VAX arch.  I doubt anyone is H > >going to write a disassembler for Alphas (although I know one person J > >crazy enough to try it and probably be able to succeed with it... he's 5 > >happened to have participated in this thread BTW.)  > + > hehe. twist his arm, twist his arm... j/k  > J > >I'm scratching my head on your DUMP/ASM command...  I'd really like to J > >know what it was because I'm at least sure that you are sure you typed H > >something like that.  EXAMINE/INSTRUCTION under SDA would be hard to J > >confuse with DUMP/ASM and your object under SDA would be a dump file... > H > me too, see above, and I'll go through my stacks of paper from the 80s > and see what I can dig up  > J > >Wish I could help more.  You're going to need a VAX (or a VAX emulator I > >-- http://www.softresint.com/charon-vax/index.htm) to run DISM32.  If  I > >you can get it to work (by obtaining access to the proper HW or HAL),  8 > >you'll likely enjoy the results...  Does a great job. > G > I have 5-6 Vaxen thank you, and two Alpha's. But my main vax seems to  > be missing FORRTL... erg >  > Dan.   --  
 Alan Adams& alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk http://www.nckc.org.uk/    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 11:03:03 -0800 $ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>3 Subject: RE: decnet  - mailbox programming question 0 Message-ID: <01C2BBBC.A82A1090@sulfer.icius.com>  C I'm not sure what you mean by fielding a DECnet packet with an "AST G mailbox". I'll assume you just want to use an AST to catch the incoming 3 packets so you don't have to spin waiting for them.   G If you use QIO to field the incoming packets, you should be able to set A a completion AST on the call. It's in the manual. I /may/ have an @ example on tape somewhere, if I dig. Let me know if you need it.  E My usual approach though is to use event flags. I use QIO to wait for D the incoming packet and set a flag when it completes. I then start aE timer to set another flag in a few seconds, and do a WFLOR on the two G flags. When the WFLOR completes, I test to see which flag is set. If it H was the QIO's, I have data so I cancel the timer and process it. If it'sB the timer's, I have a timeout with no data so I cancel the QIO and  handle it as an error condition.   Shane    -----Original Message-----4 From: jiannisf@yahoo.com [mailto:jiannisf@yahoo.com]' Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 7:26 AM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com . Subject: decnet - mailbox programming question    E I want to create a process in OVMS, which will communicate via Decnet 6 at one side and from an AST mailbox at the other side.  2 How can I create an AST for the Network messages ?  F Since now I'm using an infinite loop which reads network (sys$waitfr (D sys$get(RAB) ), but that approach doesnt work with AST mailboxes (?)   Thanx in advance   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 17:17:24 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>3 Subject: Re: decnet  - mailbox programming question / Message-ID: <3E247E57.5AC4989E@vl.videotron.ca>    Jiannisf wrote: 4 > How can I create an AST for the Network messages ? > H > Since now I'm using an infinite loop which reads network (sys$waitfr (F > sys$get(RAB) ), but that approach doesnt work with AST mailboxes (?)  R Your best best is to drop RMS (file) programming  and use $QIO instead for DECNET.  M The DECNET manual has examples on how to program non-transparent access. Once M you've established the link, you just issue a SYS$QIO for a READ, and specify . the AST to be triggered when a read completes.  C If your application established a call to another process, the call ) establishement is fairly straightforward.   J Also, when you do this, you can specify a mailbox device (SYS$CREMBX). YouJ then QUEUE a $QIO read on that mailbox which will trigger another AST, andC will advise you of network issues (link disconnected for instance).    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 20:35:38 -0500  From: "ICUSC" <sales@hpaq.net> Subject: DS10 Sale this month / Message-ID: <v29ehohmaf3h25@news.supernews.com>   
 This month   Alpha Server DS10 (no License) 512Mb Memory 9GB Ultra2 SCSI 10KRPM Ultra 2 SCSI Controller PCI  Dual 10/100 Ethernet CDROM and Floppy VX1 Oxygen 32MB PCI Graphics Keyboard and Mouse Island's 12 month warranty/ Choice of US/UK/Eire/Euro/Australian Power Cord - Systems are multi-voltage 120V/60Hz 240V/50Hz    US$ 1895  	 Shipping:    USA (Continental) $50  Canada US$80	 EU US$100  East. Europe - Call for quotee& Australia/Japan/China/Hong Kong US$140  - We accept purchase orders from any University 5 We accept purchase orders from International Entities  and larger Corporations , Visa/Mastercard/Bank Cheque is also accepted     -- Island Computers US Corp.  2700 Gregory St, Ste 180 Savannah GA 31404, USA Tel: (00) 1 912 447 6622 Fax: (00) 1 912 201 0402 sales@hpaq.net www.islandco.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 19:28:36 +0000 ' From: Martyn <mpattWINDOZE@bigfoot.com> . Subject: Re: Going totally crazy - please help* Message-ID: <3E2464E4.3000609@bigfoot.com>   Joseph Norris wrote:A > I have a dcl file that runs a simple interactive cobol program. - > The last line of the dcl file says $ LOGOUT  > A > Which is exactly what I want the process to do - allow the user D > to use this dcl file to run the interactive program and after they) > exit the program the dcl logs them off.  > I > However - it appears that the OS does not see the "$ LOGOUT" and leaves  > them with a prompt.  > - > Any and all help would be most appreciated.  > 	 > Thanks.  >  > = > #Joseph Norris (Perl - what else is there?/Linux/CGI/Mysql) K > print @c=map chr $_+100,(6,17,15,16,-68,-3,10,11,16,4,1,14,-68,12,1,14,8, E > -68,4,-3,-1,7,1,14,-68,-26,11,15,1,12,4,-68,-22,11,14,14,5,15,-90);  >  >   H We're gonna need to see the procedure, chances are you're never getting H to the last line, you could be exiting (by choice or by error handling)  anywhere in the procedure.   You could try putting a    $SET VERIFY   H line up at the start of the procedure, and you'll then see each line of E the procedure as it is executed this should let you see which is the  H last line that being processed and you might figure out from that where  it's going wrong.   F Another posibillity is that LOGOUT has been defined as a symbol to do  something else/nothing.    --  ( Speak to the Penguin, he is your friend.  ' Remove WINDOZE before replying by Email    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 14:43:14 -0500 5 From: "Bochnik, William J" <William_Bochnik@acml.com> . Subject: RE: Going totally crazy - please helpO Message-ID: <2D75787AAF09C64481BDFD89113BE6D5B36090@ac2kama0102.ac.lp.acml.com>   L what if you set the UAF flags to make them captive, so if they do get out ofD the program, they get logged off anyway?  Solves this and some other	 problems.    -----Original Message-----/ From: Martyn [mailto:mpattWINDOZE@bigfoot.com]  ' Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 2:29 PM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com . Subject: Re: Going totally crazy - please help     Joseph Norris wrote:F > I have a dcl file that runs a simple interactive cobol program. The ) > last line of the dcl file says $ LOGOUT  > I > Which is exactly what I want the process to do - allow the user to use  G > this dcl file to run the interactive program and after they exit the    > program the dcl logs them off. > C > However - it appears that the OS does not see the "$ LOGOUT" and   > leaves them with a prompt. > - > Any and all help would be most appreciated.  > 	 > Thanks.  >  > D > #Joseph Norris (Perl - what else is there?/Linux/CGI/Mysql) print E > @c=map chr $_+100,(6,17,15,16,-68,-3,10,11,16,4,1,14,-68,12,1,14,8, E > -68,4,-3,-1,7,1,14,-68,-26,11,15,1,12,4,-68,-22,11,14,14,5,15,-90);  >  >   H We're gonna need to see the procedure, chances are you're never getting H to the last line, you could be exiting (by choice or by error handling)  anywhere in the procedure.   You could try putting a    $SET VERIFY   H line up at the start of the procedure, and you'll then see each line of E the procedure as it is executed this should let you see which is the  H last line that being processed and you might figure out from that where  it's going wrong.   F Another posibillity is that LOGOUT has been defined as a symbol to do  something else/nothing.    --  ( Speak to the Penguin, he is your friend.  ' Remove WINDOZE before replying by Email     I The information contained in this transmission may contain privileged and J confidential information and is intended only for the use of the person(s)L named above.  If you are not the intended recipient, or an employee or agentF responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, anyK review, dissemination, distribution or duplication of this communication is J strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contactD the sender immediately by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of theI original message. Please note that we do not accept account orders and/or J instructions by e-mail, and therefore will not be responsible for carrying$ out such orders and/or instructions.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 19:34:55 GMT + From: Joseph Norris <jozefn@bolt.sonic.net> . Subject: Re: Going totally crazy - please helpD Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.40.0301141132100.1240-100000@bolt.sonic.net>   Martyn,   < I did this and I see everything up until the point of run of; the interactive program. I also checked $ LOGOUT by putting 9 it into its on dcl and then running it - it logged me out  of the system.    4 BTW - like the idea of your sig - remove Windoze and* Speak to the Penguin, he is your friend. -' been doing that for quite some time :>)           ; #Joseph Norris (Perl - what else is there?/Linux/CGI/Mysql) I print @c=map chr $_+100,(6,17,15,16,-68,-3,10,11,16,4,1,14,-68,12,1,14,8, C -68,4,-3,-1,7,1,14,-68,-26,11,15,1,12,4,-68,-22,11,14,14,5,15,-90);     " On Tue, 14 Jan 2003, Martyn wrote:   > Joseph Norris wrote:C > > I have a dcl file that runs a simple interactive cobol program. / > > The last line of the dcl file says $ LOGOUT  > > C > > Which is exactly what I want the process to do - allow the user F > > to use this dcl file to run the interactive program and after they+ > > exit the program the dcl logs them off.  > > K > > However - it appears that the OS does not see the "$ LOGOUT" and leaves  > > them with a prompt.  > > / > > Any and all help would be most appreciated.  > >  > > Thanks.  > >  > > ? > > #Joseph Norris (Perl - what else is there?/Linux/CGI/Mysql) M > > print @c=map chr $_+100,(6,17,15,16,-68,-3,10,11,16,4,1,14,-68,12,1,14,8, G > > -68,4,-3,-1,7,1,14,-68,-26,11,15,1,12,4,-68,-22,11,14,14,5,15,-90);  > >  > >  > I > We're gonna need to see the procedure, chances are you're never getting I > to the last line, you could be exiting (by choice or by error handling)  > anywhere in the procedure. >  > You could try putting a  > 
 > $SET VERIFY  > I > line up at the start of the procedure, and you'll then see each line of F > the procedure as it is executed this should let you see which is theI > last line that being processed and you might figure out from that where  > it's going wrong.  > G > Another posibillity is that LOGOUT has been defined as a symbol to do  > something else/nothing.  >  > --* > Speak to the Penguin, he is your friend. > ) > Remove WINDOZE before replying by Email  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 11:55:29 -0800 $ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>. Subject: RE: Going totally crazy - please help0 Message-ID: <01C2BBC3.DFDC9FB0@sulfer.icius.com>  D Try putting SET NOON above the program. It may be doing some kind of silent crash out.    Shane    -----Original Message-----2 From: Joseph Norris [mailto:jozefn@bolt.sonic.net]( Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 11:35 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com . Subject: Re: Going totally crazy - please help       Martyn,   < I did this and I see everything up until the point of run of; the interactive program. I also checked $ LOGOUT by putting 9 it into its on dcl and then running it - it logged me out  of the system.    4 BTW - like the idea of your sig - remove Windoze and* Speak to the Penguin, he is your friend. -' been doing that for quite some time :>)           ; #Joseph Norris (Perl - what else is there?/Linux/CGI/Mysql)  print @c=map chr8 $_+100,(6,17,15,16,-68,-3,10,11,16,4,1,14,-68,12,1,14,8,C -68,4,-3,-1,7,1,14,-68,-26,11,15,1,12,4,-68,-22,11,14,14,5,15,-90);     " On Tue, 14 Jan 2003, Martyn wrote:   > Joseph Norris wrote:C > > I have a dcl file that runs a simple interactive cobol program. / > > The last line of the dcl file says $ LOGOUT  > > C > > Which is exactly what I want the process to do - allow the user F > > to use this dcl file to run the interactive program and after they+ > > exit the program the dcl logs them off.  > > K > > However - it appears that the OS does not see the "$ LOGOUT" and leaves  > > them with a prompt.  > > / > > Any and all help would be most appreciated.  > >  > > Thanks.  > >  > > ? > > #Joseph Norris (Perl - what else is there?/Linux/CGI/Mysql) M > > print @c=map chr $_+100,(6,17,15,16,-68,-3,10,11,16,4,1,14,-68,12,1,14,8, G > > -68,4,-3,-1,7,1,14,-68,-26,11,15,1,12,4,-68,-22,11,14,14,5,15,-90);  > >  > >  > I > We're gonna need to see the procedure, chances are you're never getting I > to the last line, you could be exiting (by choice or by error handling)  > anywhere in the procedure. >  > You could try putting a  > 
 > $SET VERIFY  > I > line up at the start of the procedure, and you'll then see each line of F > the procedure as it is executed this should let you see which is theI > last line that being processed and you might figure out from that where  > it's going wrong.  > G > Another posibillity is that LOGOUT has been defined as a symbol to do  > something else/nothing.  >  > --* > Speak to the Penguin, he is your friend. > ) > Remove WINDOZE before replying by Email  >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 20:33:24 GMT + From: Joseph Norris <jozefn@bolt.sonic.net> . Subject: RE: Going totally crazy - please helpD Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.40.0301141232410.7505-100000@bolt.sonic.net>  F Thanks for all the help - remember you are talking to a newbie on VMS.  3 How do I make the account captive in this dcl file?    Thanks.     ; #Joseph Norris (Perl - what else is there?/Linux/CGI/Mysql) I print @c=map chr $_+100,(6,17,15,16,-68,-3,10,11,16,4,1,14,-68,12,1,14,8, C -68,4,-3,-1,7,1,14,-68,-26,11,15,1,12,4,-68,-22,11,14,14,5,15,-90);     . On Tue, 14 Jan 2003, Bochnik, William J wrote:  N > what if you set the UAF flags to make them captive, so if they do get out ofF > the program, they get logged off anyway?  Solves this and some other > problems.  >  > -----Original Message-----0 > From: Martyn [mailto:mpattWINDOZE@bigfoot.com]) > Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 2:29 PM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 0 > Subject: Re: Going totally crazy - please help >  >  > Joseph Norris wrote:G > > I have a dcl file that runs a simple interactive cobol program. The + > > last line of the dcl file says $ LOGOUT  > > J > > Which is exactly what I want the process to do - allow the user to useH > > this dcl file to run the interactive program and after they exit the" > > program the dcl logs them off. > > D > > However - it appears that the OS does not see the "$ LOGOUT" and > > leaves them with a prompt. > > / > > Any and all help would be most appreciated.  > >  > > Thanks.  > >  > > E > > #Joseph Norris (Perl - what else is there?/Linux/CGI/Mysql) print G > > @c=map chr $_+100,(6,17,15,16,-68,-3,10,11,16,4,1,14,-68,12,1,14,8, G > > -68,4,-3,-1,7,1,14,-68,-26,11,15,1,12,4,-68,-22,11,14,14,5,15,-90);  > >  > >  > I > We're gonna need to see the procedure, chances are you're never getting I > to the last line, you could be exiting (by choice or by error handling)  > anywhere in the procedure. >  > You could try putting a  > 
 > $SET VERIFY  > I > line up at the start of the procedure, and you'll then see each line of F > the procedure as it is executed this should let you see which is theI > last line that being processed and you might figure out from that where  > it's going wrong.  > G > Another posibillity is that LOGOUT has been defined as a symbol to do  > something else/nothing.  >  > --* > Speak to the Penguin, he is your friend. > ) > Remove WINDOZE before replying by Email  >  > K > The information contained in this transmission may contain privileged and L > confidential information and is intended only for the use of the person(s)N > named above.  If you are not the intended recipient, or an employee or agentH > responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, anyM > review, dissemination, distribution or duplication of this communication is L > strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contactF > the sender immediately by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of theK > original message. Please note that we do not accept account orders and/or L > instructions by e-mail, and therefore will not be responsible for carrying& > out such orders and/or instructions. >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 16:02:38 -0500  From: norm.raphael@metso.com. Subject: Re: Going totally crazy - please help? Message-ID: <OFF2835E3B.F9C055F6-ON85256CAE.00735370@metso.com>    Joseph,   B Are you getting input to the interactive program from the terminal or the command procedure?    If you are using# $ DEFINE/USER SYS$INPUT SYS$COMMAND  or $ DECK $ EOD > in some way (or should be and are not) complications may cause3 the $LOGOUT to be treated as input to your program. ; That's why someone earlier suggested you post an example of  the DCL.   -Norm   C From:  Joseph Norris <jozefn@bolt.sonic.net> on 01/14/2003 02:34 PM   7 Please respond to Joseph Norris <jozefn@bolt.sonic.net>    To:    Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com cc:   1 Subject:    Re: Going totally crazy - please help        Martyn,   < I did this and I see everything up until the point of run of; the interactive program. I also checked $ LOGOUT by putting 9 it into its on dcl and then running it - it logged me out  of the system.    4 BTW - like the idea of your sig - remove Windoze and* Speak to the Penguin, he is your friend. -' been doing that for quite some time :>)           ; #Joseph Norris (Perl - what else is there?/Linux/CGI/Mysql) I print @c=map chr $_+100,(6,17,15,16,-68,-3,10,11,16,4,1,14,-68,12,1,14,8, C -68,4,-3,-1,7,1,14,-68,-26,11,15,1,12,4,-68,-22,11,14,14,5,15,-90);     " On Tue, 14 Jan 2003, Martyn wrote:   > Joseph Norris wrote:C > > I have a dcl file that runs a simple interactive cobol program. / > > The last line of the dcl file says $ LOGOUT  > > C > > Which is exactly what I want the process to do - allow the user F > > to use this dcl file to run the interactive program and after they+ > > exit the program the dcl logs them off.  > > K > > However - it appears that the OS does not see the "$ LOGOUT" and leaves  > > them with a prompt.  > > / > > Any and all help would be most appreciated.  > >  > > Thanks.  > >  > > ? > > #Joseph Norris (Perl - what else is there?/Linux/CGI/Mysql) ? > > print @c=map chr $_+100,(6,17,15,16,-68,-3,10,11,16,4,1,14,  -68,12,1,14,8,G > > -68,4,-3,-1,7,1,14,-68,-26,11,15,1,12,4,-68,-22,11,14,14,5,15,-90);  > >  > >  > I > We're gonna need to see the procedure, chances are you're never getting I > to the last line, you could be exiting (by choice or by error handling)  > anywhere in the procedure. >  > You could try putting a  > 
 > $SET VERIFY  > I > line up at the start of the procedure, and you'll then see each line of F > the procedure as it is executed this should let you see which is theI > last line that being processed and you might figure out from that where  > it's going wrong.  > G > Another posibillity is that LOGOUT has been defined as a symbol to do  > something else/nothing.  >  > --* > Speak to the Penguin, he is your friend. > ) > Remove WINDOZE before replying by Email  >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 21:43:18 GMT + From: Joseph Norris <jozefn@bolt.sonic.net> . Subject: Re: Going totally crazy - please helpE Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.40.0301141340580.14609-100000@bolt.sonic.net>    Norm,   E That's a good idea to actually put the dcl in the email. Sorry to all D for not thinking of this. I am at a remote site and I will drop this into an email tonight.  @ I am doing the define/user sys$input sys$command before the run.    I will give the set noon a shot.  9 Thanks again to all  and to you Norm for the observation.   ; #Joseph Norris (Perl - what else is there?/Linux/CGI/Mysql) I print @c=map chr $_+100,(6,17,15,16,-68,-3,10,11,16,4,1,14,-68,12,1,14,8, C -68,4,-3,-1,7,1,14,-68,-26,11,15,1,12,4,-68,-22,11,14,14,5,15,-90);     1 On Tue, 14 Jan 2003 norm.raphael@metso.com wrote:    > 	 > Joseph,  > D > Are you getting input to the interactive program from the terminal > or the command procedure?  >  > If you are using% > $ DEFINE/USER SYS$INPUT SYS$COMMAND  > or > $ DECK > $ EOD @ > in some way (or should be and are not) complications may cause5 > the $LOGOUT to be treated as input to your program. = > That's why someone earlier suggested you post an example of 
 > the DCL. >  > -Norm  > E > From:  Joseph Norris <jozefn@bolt.sonic.net> on 01/14/2003 02:34 PM  > 9 > Please respond to Joseph Norris <jozefn@bolt.sonic.net>  >  > To:    Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > cc:  > 3 > Subject:    Re: Going totally crazy - please help  >  >  > 	 > Martyn,  > > > I did this and I see everything up until the point of run of= > the interactive program. I also checked $ LOGOUT by putting ; > it into its on dcl and then running it - it logged me out  > of the system. >  > 6 > BTW - like the idea of your sig - remove Windoze and, > Speak to the Penguin, he is your friend. -) > been doing that for quite some time :>)  >  >  >  >  > = > #Joseph Norris (Perl - what else is there?/Linux/CGI/Mysql) K > print @c=map chr $_+100,(6,17,15,16,-68,-3,10,11,16,4,1,14,-68,12,1,14,8, E > -68,4,-3,-1,7,1,14,-68,-26,11,15,1,12,4,-68,-22,11,14,14,5,15,-90);  >  > $ > On Tue, 14 Jan 2003, Martyn wrote: >  > > Joseph Norris wrote:E > > > I have a dcl file that runs a simple interactive cobol program. 1 > > > The last line of the dcl file says $ LOGOUT  > > > E > > > Which is exactly what I want the process to do - allow the user H > > > to use this dcl file to run the interactive program and after they- > > > exit the program the dcl logs them off.  > > > M > > > However - it appears that the OS does not see the "$ LOGOUT" and leaves  > > > them with a prompt.  > > > 1 > > > Any and all help would be most appreciated.  > > > 
 > > > Thanks.  > > >  > > > A > > > #Joseph Norris (Perl - what else is there?/Linux/CGI/Mysql) A > > > print @c=map chr $_+100,(6,17,15,16,-68,-3,10,11,16,4,1,14,  > -68,12,1,14,8,I > > > -68,4,-3,-1,7,1,14,-68,-26,11,15,1,12,4,-68,-22,11,14,14,5,15,-90);  > > >  > > >  > > K > > We're gonna need to see the procedure, chances are you're never getting K > > to the last line, you could be exiting (by choice or by error handling)  > > anywhere in the procedure. > >V > > You could try putting a0 > >s > > $SET VERIFYe > > K > > line up at the start of the procedure, and you'll then see each line ofnH > > the procedure as it is executed this should let you see which is theK > > last line that being processed and you might figure out from that where  > > it's going wrong.e > >nI > > Another posibillity is that LOGOUT has been defined as a symbol to do  > > something else/nothing.h > >  > > --, > > Speak to the Penguin, he is your friend. > >r+ > > Remove WINDOZE before replying by Email  > >e > >  >e >o >  >a >  >z >  >a   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 20:38:45 +0100a9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> . Subject: Re: Going totally crazy - please help' Message-ID: <3E246745.39680446@aaa.com>/  > If this user *always* should run in this way, make the account> "captive". Then when LOGIN.COM exits, the using is logged off.@ A captive account is not allowed to have access to the $-prompt.   Jan-Erik Sderholm.    Joseph Norris wrote: > A > I have a dcl file that runs a simple interactive cobol program. - > The last line of the dcl file says $ LOGOUTi >a   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 19:16:27 GMT + From: Joseph Norris <jozefn@bolt.sonic.net>a* Subject: Going totally crazy - please helpE Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.40.0301141116050.31612-100000@bolt.sonic.net>   ? I have a dcl file that runs a simple interactive cobol program. + The last line of the dcl file says $ LOGOUTi  ? Which is exactly what I want the process to do - allow the usereB to use this dcl file to run the interactive program and after they' exit the program the dcl logs them off.   G However - it appears that the OS does not see the "$ LOGOUT" and leavesn them with a prompt.M  + Any and all help would be most appreciated.l   Thanks.2    ; #Joseph Norris (Perl - what else is there?/Linux/CGI/Mysql) I print @c=map chr $_+100,(6,17,15,16,-68,-3,10,11,16,4,1,14,-68,12,1,14,8, C -68,4,-3,-1,7,1,14,-68,-26,11,15,1,12,4,-68,-22,11,14,14,5,15,-90);e   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 21:57:40 +0100 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>r. Subject: Re: Going totally crazy - please help' Message-ID: <3E2479C4.C25597E7@aaa.com>k  B Well, the account it set to be "captive" using the AUTHORIZE tool.A Anyone with SYSTEM priv (a "sysadmin") have to do this. It wasn'taA clear if this user *only* should run this command file. If he/she E will do other things, the captive thing may not work work. Look for ayG fix localy on this specific command file, such as, as have been written"C by others, SET NOON ("NOON" stands for "NO ON", not "No 12:00"...).   : Probably your program exits with a return code that to DCLA looks like an error. The default is then to exit the command file-B directly, "$ SET NOON" will make it go on, and, hopefully, execute your LOGOUT.   Jan-Erik Sderholm.m   Joseph Norris wrote: > H > Thanks for all the help - remember you are talking to a newbie on VMS. > 5 > How do I make the account captive in this dcl file?s > 	 > Thanks.e >n   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 20:30:27 -0600 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.spamfree.net>. Subject: Re: Going totally crazy - please help5 Message-ID: <3E24C7C3.8422F60@earthlink.spamfree.net>    Joseph Norris wrote: > 	 > Martyn,t > > > I did this and I see everything up until the point of run of= > the interactive program. I also checked $ LOGOUT by putting1; > it into its on dcl and then running it - it logged me outA > of the system.  D Next, add SET NOON to the .COM proc. immediately before invoking theG COBOL program. For kicks, immediately after the COBOL program you couldrE try SHOW SYMBOL $STATUS to see what status value is being returned bya the program. Check this out:   DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ exit %X2a( %NONAME-E-NOMSG, Message number 00000002" DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ exit %X10000002 DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ p  H Also, is there any chance the COBOL program is doing a LIB$SPAWN to give
 a DCL prompt?    -- k David J. Dachterah dba DJE Systemsd http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/t   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 18:36:19 -0800o$ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>. Subject: RE: Going totally crazy - please help0 Message-ID: <01C2BBFB.F5DB71A0@sulfer.icius.com>  H Captive is an attibute of the user ID, not a command file. If the user'sG captive flag is set, they are automatically logged out if their processCG gets to the $ prompt. This means from the moment their LOGIN.COM starts5E they have to remain inside command files. They can run nested commandc( files, but never reach an interactive $.  A Setting the flag requires privs, I believe SYSPRV will do it, butiE there's more than one combination that will do the job. The job wouldyC normally be done by a system manager. If you have the privs and theoH appropriate boss's permission, type the following (assuming the username
 is "victim"):u   set def sys$system
 mcr authorizei mod victim /flags=captived exit  4 The actual output on the screen will look like this:   $ set def sys$system $ mcr authorize  UAF> mod victim /flags=captive& %UAF-I-MDFYMSG, user record(s) updated	 UAF> exitg2 %UAF-I-DONEMSG, system authorization file modifiedA %UAF-I-NAFNOMODS, no modifications made to network proxy databaseu: %UAF-I-RDBNOMODS, no modifications made to rights database  B If you decide to give it a try, thoroughly test the setup with the. command files before imposing it on any users.   Shanel   -----Original Message-----2 From: Joseph Norris [mailto:jozefn@bolt.sonic.net]( Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 12:33 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com=. Subject: RE: Going totally crazy - please help      F Thanks for all the help - remember you are talking to a newbie on VMS.  3 How do I make the account captive in this dcl file?u   Thanks.A    ; #Joseph Norris (Perl - what else is there?/Linux/CGI/Mysql)> print @c=map chr8 $_+100,(6,17,15,16,-68,-3,10,11,16,4,1,14,-68,12,1,14,8,C -68,4,-3,-1,7,1,14,-68,-26,11,15,1,12,4,-68,-22,11,14,14,5,15,-90);g    . On Tue, 14 Jan 2003, Bochnik, William J wrote:  N > what if you set the UAF flags to make them captive, so if they do get out ofF > the program, they get logged off anyway?  Solves this and some other > problems., >0 > -----Original Message-----0 > From: Martyn [mailto:mpattWINDOZE@bigfoot.com]) > Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 2:29 PM, > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Como0 > Subject: Re: Going totally crazy - please help >o >. > Joseph Norris wrote:G > > I have a dcl file that runs a simple interactive cobol program. The + > > last line of the dcl file says $ LOGOUT  > >vJ > > Which is exactly what I want the process to do - allow the user to useH > > this dcl file to run the interactive program and after they exit the" > > program the dcl logs them off. > >eD > > However - it appears that the OS does not see the "$ LOGOUT" and > > leaves them with a prompt. > >e/ > > Any and all help would be most appreciated.f > >g > > Thanks.t > >m > >iE > > #Joseph Norris (Perl - what else is there?/Linux/CGI/Mysql) printnG > > @c=map chr $_+100,(6,17,15,16,-68,-3,10,11,16,4,1,14,-68,12,1,14,8,=G > > -68,4,-3,-1,7,1,14,-68,-26,11,15,1,12,4,-68,-22,11,14,14,5,15,-90);  > >o > >  >SI > We're gonna need to see the procedure, chances are you're never gettingoI > to the last line, you could be exiting (by choice or by error handling)a > anywhere in the procedure. >  > You could try putting a= >=
 > $SET VERIFY= >=I > line up at the start of the procedure, and you'll then see each line of F > the procedure as it is executed this should let you see which is theI > last line that being processed and you might figure out from that where  > it's going wrong.s >cG > Another posibillity is that LOGOUT has been defined as a symbol to dos > something else/nothing.  >n > --* > Speak to the Penguin, he is your friend. >5) > Remove WINDOZE before replying by Emailr >: > K > The information contained in this transmission may contain privileged andeL > confidential information and is intended only for the use of the person(s)N > named above.  If you are not the intended recipient, or an employee or agentH > responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, anyM > review, dissemination, distribution or duplication of this communication isaL > strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contactF > the sender immediately by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of theK > original message. Please note that we do not accept account orders and/oroL > instructions by e-mail, and therefore will not be responsible for carrying& > out such orders and/or instructions. >a >m >    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Jan 2003 15:21:35 -0800$ From: rcbryan@hotmail.com (RC Bryan)S Subject: Re: How much disk I/O can I do with a sys$QIOW IO$_WRITEVBLK/IO$_READVBLK?n= Message-ID: <fbcf38dc.0301141521.56c85e33@posting.google.com>a  k "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> wrote in message news:<b01kn2$cav$1@sparta.btinternet.com>...  > Hi,o > M > Does Fast I/O (and whatever device restrictions go with it) interest you at'0 > all? "buflen" says it can be the full 64-bits. > K > Although the documentation says Alpha only, somewhere I saw that, on VAX, I > the single $io call was translated automagically into multiple $qios. Ia > don't know if it's true. > , > I'll post an example if you're interested. >  > Regards Richard Maher.  C I never heard of Fast I/O before.  I guess I overlooked it since itSD does not appear in the paper V6.0 manuals I have on my desk.  If you8 have an example, I would be interested in looking at it.  C I am not sure I am going to replace the $QIOs I have in the programaA currently.  The application is in the field in two or three dozenmD locations and if I screw something up, they are going to hang me out to dry.r   Regards,	 /RC Bryany   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Jan 2003 22:46:29 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)nS Subject: Re: How much disk I/O can I do with a sys$QIOW IO$_WRITEVBLK/IO$_READVBLK?s3 Message-ID: <XRvvXV3lVaRe@eisner.encompasserve.org>   d In article <fbcf38dc.0301141521.56c85e33@posting.google.com>, rcbryan@hotmail.com (RC Bryan) writes:m > "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> wrote in message news:<b01kn2$cav$1@sparta.btinternet.com>...o >> Hi, >>  N >> Does Fast I/O (and whatever device restrictions go with it) interest you at1 >> all? "buflen" says it can be the full 64-bits.n >> aL >> Although the documentation says Alpha only, somewhere I saw that, on VAX,J >> the single $io call was translated automagically into multiple $qios. I >> don't know if it's true.y >> e- >> I'll post an example if you're interested.m >> w >> Regards Richard Maher.l > E > I never heard of Fast I/O before.  I guess I overlooked it since itgF > does not appear in the paper V6.0 manuals I have on my desk.  If you: > have an example, I would be interested in looking at it. > E > I am not sure I am going to replace the $QIOs I have in the program C > currently.  The application is in the field in two or three dozen F > locations and if I screw something up, they are going to hang me out	 > to dry.  >   8 	Can you tell us about IO patterns?  Concurrent writes?  	Shared access?m  6 	Often advice is best when information is forthcoming.   				Rob    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Jan 2003 14:55:07 -0800( From: baby_p_nut@yahoo.com (Baby Peanut)1 Subject: How to flash VAXstation 4000/90 FEPROMS?d< Message-ID: <c5cf6e8.0301141455.3077d976@posting.google.com>   Hi,S  C I have a VAXstation 4000/90 with bad code in the FEPROMS.  Is therei% any way to reload the original image?(   thanks!    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 05:38:20 GMT- From: rivie@RIvie.no.domain 5 Subject: Re: How to flash VAXstation 4000/90 FEPROMS?i1 Message-ID: <slrnb29pcu.6t.rivie@RIvie.no.domain>c  O In article <c5cf6e8.0301141455.3077d976@posting.google.com>, Baby Peanut wrote:a > Hi,i > E > I have a VAXstation 4000/90 with bad code in the FEPROMS.  Is there ' > any way to reload the original image?h  C The one time I've done it, I pulled the EPROMs and blasted 'em on atD ROM burner. Had to put sockets in because the power connector is tooC close to the EPROMs; you can get to the pins on the power connector > side through the top of a socket, but you can't go through theB top of an EPROM. Got in trouble when Field Circus saw the sockets.  C You might check with the NetBSD folks. There was some discussion ontB the problem a while ago; I think someone was talking about writingF a flashing utility, but I don't know if that ever happened. Of course,D that's only useful if the ROMs work well enough to bring the VAX up.@ If the VAX can't come up at all, you're gonna have to pull them.  A In my case, I was fiddling with the I/O routines for a bare-metal-@ FORTH system and forgot to take the 4000/60 console I/O routinesB out. The 4000/60 console lives at the same address as some 4000/90F flash, and I accidentally erased one of the chips. So I had no choice;/ if I wanted to fix it, I had to pull the flash.r -- C
 Roger Ivie ivie@cc.usu.edu0   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 13:49:42 -0500u* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>6 Subject: Re: HP Sets the Stage for Alpha's Last Hurrah2 Message-ID: <Q7-cneUct7xLxrmjXTWcpw@metrocast.net>  ) <norm.raphael@metso.com> wrote in messageU9 news:OF3A3EC4F4.B27764E2-ON85256CAE.0050704D@metso.com...h   ...g  H > HP gained the Alpha technology through its purchase of Compaq ComputerH > Corp. last year. AlphaServers run the OpenVMS and Tru64 Unix operatingL > systems and were scheduled to be phased out of production even before HP'sK > merger with Compaq. The company's AlphaServer business is deep in the redaD > and is expected to lose about $200 million this fiscal year alone. >- >- > [Is that true?]e  J Certainly could be.  2+ years ago the Alpha system business was generatingJ well over $1 billion in annual profit ($800 million from VMS systems aloneG on $4 billion in VMS system revenue, plus Tru64 system revenue that hadiJ reached $3 billion annually as of a March, 2001, Compaq slide presentationL but for which profit figures weren't publicized).  And all that despite zeroH marketing of VMS and hardly aggressive marketing of Tru64 (which despiteK being in fourth place among enterprise Unixes was growing at the end of Y2KSA at a 30% annual rate:  considerably faster than any ahead of it).   I The Alpha business didn't appear to be being as hard-hit by the turn-downJE (starting about 2 years ago) as the Wintel server and PC parts of themJ corporation (makes sense:  it wasn't as inflated by the dot-com bubble, soG had less reason to collapse with it).  But then along came the June 25,eJ 2001, announcement of the Alphacide, and the following quarter (Q3) was anI utter disaster, with little recovery thereafter.  Soon VMS system revenueeI was being quoted as about $2 billion annually rather than $4 billion, and I with the announcement later in 2001 that if the merger went through Tru64dH wouldn't be migrated to Itanic Tru64 revenue may well have declined even more.g  K When you consider that a fair amount of the stated revenue for both systemstH included service revenue for existing installations (which would have noL reason to scrap their systems immediately, hence whose revenue contributionsH would not be affected - immediately - by those changes), it seems likelyI that *new* system revenue for both platforms fell right off a cliff.  ButoI since an immediate reduction in head-count to zero for both systems wouldDK have sent even more customers straight to other vendors, costs did not falltC nearly as much, and hence profit may well have gone from being very J comfortably positive to noticeably negative (though hardly impressive whenH compared with the losses the PC side of Compaq has totted up over time).  K It's pretty amazing how badly a corporation can screw up its single largest.H source of profit with a single act of monumental stupidity and breach ofH promise, as long as it sticks by its guns and does nothing to attempt to recover from it.   - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Jan 2003 23:31:23 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) 6 Subject: Re: HP Sets the Stage for Alpha's Last Hurrah3 Message-ID: <UjZoKfVaE$kr@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  _ In article <A86cnauXEu3By7mjXTWcqg@metrocast.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:  > : > "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message/ > news:2jhv5O8PYazj@eisner.encompasserve.org...C >  > ...r > ! >> Look, at least it is shipping.6 > - > Always one to look on the bright side, Rob., > " >   Go back and read some opinions >> a year or two ago.  > N > You should go back and do so yourself, since you clearly don't remember them > correctly. >   	 	Sure do.g  4 >>  Several thought it wouldn't ship.  What a crock. > M > Wrong, Rob:  several people thought *that there was a non-negligible chancer > that EV7 wouldn't ship*e  9 	And I suppose no one said it won't ship?  Of course theye 	did.     H 	However, in repeated attempts to get you to say so *definitively*, ... A 	we hear terms of possibly, probably , maybe ... I didn't get theOG 	sweet lift quote I was after, because you weren't about to say that.   2 	However, Terry stated definitively it would ship.  D 	Like Gartner, the best you would do is assign a probability factor  	(FUD factor) to it:  S http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=9nb577%24ofg%241%40pyrite.mv.net&output=gplainr  ' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>t$ Newsgroups: comp.os.vms,comp.sys.dec! Subject: Re: EV7 will never ship? $ Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 14:56:33 -0400   >i? > So.. how about this for a statement that you can sign off on:i >i  > "I highly doubt EV7 will ship" >o1 > Is that your opinion?  We are entitled to them.r  H And you shall have them, in great copiousness and detail, merely for the asking:n  J My opinion is that there is sufficient probability (SWAG 30%, but it couldK be half or double that) that EV7 will never ship (due to HP's commitment tocG a weak Itanic product that EV7 would make look even weaker coupled with5I demand-erosion in the Alpha customer base over the next year) that peopletH need to take this into account in any decisions they might be making forG anything other than very-short-term use of Alpha and the systems on it.t   ---p  3 	"Sufficient probability that EV7 will never ship."   + 	Sufficient for what?  FUD purposes?  Okay.e  = 	Like Gartner, and (mentioned elsewhere in that thread) - Ourt< 	British Champion - you were cagey by tip-toeing and statingF 	generalities.  Sounds good and loud, but in this case mostly wrong.  ; 	But not totally!  Remember, we were talking probability!  l  D 	Any predictions for Power5?  I say it will ship.  Any probabilities> 	you would care to assign to it or would you be definitive and= 	go out on a limb and say it will ship?  Remember, just afterh* 	an opinion.  We are entitled to them. ;-)   				Robe   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 15:49:23 -0500U From: koskaj@bender.comaF Subject: Re: HSG-80 firmware, version 8.7-1F... anybody installed yet?: Message-ID: <03011415492317.e0e.8241949@alaxp3.bender.com>  K I installed 2 firmware cards today in a dual redundant HSG-80 config.  They I show up as V8.7F-1 from console of either HSG-80.  I used the 8.7 service J and maintenance instructions.  The only deviation from them was that afterM upgrading the first HSG-80, the second did not automatically shutdown.  I hadn@ to do a SET OTHER SHUTDOWN, and then replace it's firmware card.  L I guess the next thing to do is log a service call with HP to find out if I G get similar story to what Dave Harold got about the 8.7F-1 version not r( supporting KGPSA-BX fiber card variants.   :) jck
 John Koska   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 09:25:08 +1100 / From: Malcolm Wade <Malcolm.Wade@bikerider.com> F Subject: Re: HSG-80 firmware, version 8.7-1F... anybody installed yet?C Message-ID: <200301142225.h0EMP8H17026@mail014.syd.optusnet.com.au>a  I Re: KGPSA-Bx cards being unsupported with ACS V8.7x-y.  The platform kit sO release notes for OpenVMS for v8.7 quite clearly state on page 20 that adapter mL compatibility is restricted to the DS-KGPSA-CA 1 Gpbs card and the DS-KGPSA- DA 2 Gpbs card.   F refer http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/storageworks/acs/g80ovms.html   They were supported with v8.6.  Q I have 7 or so of the -Bx variant which look like I'll need to upgrade.  Time to y! discuss an upgrade price with HP.0   Cheers,C Malcolme   Malcolm.Wade@bikerider.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 20:36:17 +0100 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> 7 Subject: Re: Most common OpenVMS versions in use today?,& Message-ID: <3E2466B1.40E5738@aaa.com>   JF Mezei wrote:i >  > Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:  > >a: > > I can't see that the lack of a PS viewer can be of any6 > > importance what so ever at *commersial* VMS sites. > I > How do you know ? If you have DECWrite documents with lots of technicalfN > graphics imported as .EPS, you can no longer see them in your document until) > you print them to a postscript printer.i  < You could easly keep a non-7.3 system as long as you plan to (still) use DECwrite, I supose.M   > M > Have they modified DECWrite to at least be able to parse preview data often6 > contained in EPS files ? > 5 > > Maybe for a few hobbyists, but I can't see why HP2@ > > should take *any* notice of what *non-paying* users think... > P > It is nevertheless functionality that went away. Did many use it ? Perhaps notG > because Digital doesn't want its customers using VMS as a desktop OS.a  - Does the "users" want to ? How many of them ?h   > M > If they had compensated with a port of the official Adobe Acrobat Distiller * > and Reader, the loss wouldn't be so bad.  ? I definitely *would* like to see the Adobe Destiller on VMS !!! C Bot not to use VMS as a desktop, but to automate PS-PDF conversions F in larger server/batch environments. When it commes to the Reader, the PC version runs just fine.   > A > > For *real* use, 7.3 is the *best* VMS release this far, IMHO.- > L > In what way, from the user point of view is 7.3 better ? What has it added! > apart from performance things ?c  E Remember that most (99.99%) of the "users" of VMS systems, don't eveng *know*E they are using a VMS system. I see (and HP i think) VMS as a *server*l OS, I and that's the kind of fetures it will get. There is nothing a couple of ,H "hobbyists" can do about this. This must have been clear to anyone since+ many years back, so why debate that *now* ?   C And 7.3 is a better "server" OS then the former VMS versions, IMHO.g  	 Jan-Erik.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 14:05:38 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>7 Subject: Re: Most common OpenVMS versions in use today?f. Message-ID: <3E245172.F9AEAB1@vl.videotron.ca>   Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:, > 8 > I can't see that the lack of a PS viewer can be of any4 > importance what so ever at *commersial* VMS sites.  G How do you know ? If you have DECWrite documents with lots of technical L graphics imported as .EPS, you can no longer see them in your document until' you print them to a postscript printer.c  K Have they modified DECWrite to at least be able to parse preview data oftenM contained in EPS files ?  3 > Maybe for a few hobbyists, but I can't see why HP > > should take *any* notice of what *non-paying* users think...  N It is nevertheless functionality that went away. Did many use it ? Perhaps notE because Digital doesn't want its customers using VMS as a desktop OS.a  K If they had compensated with a port of the official Adobe Acrobat Distiller ( and Reader, the loss wouldn't be so bad.  ? > For *real* use, 7.3 is the *best* VMS release this far, IMHO.0  J In what way, from the user point of view is 7.3 better ? What has it added apart from performance things ?r   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 00:20:29 +0100r9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> 7 Subject: Re: Most common OpenVMS versions in use today?l' Message-ID: <3E249B3D.C8B0432F@aaa.com>r  ; OK, so keep a 7.2 system then as long as you think you have @ to use *that* tool. Now, I havn't used the DECdoc graphic editor? and havn't checked the functions in it, but is there realy *no* 5 PC tool that does the same job, perhaps even better ?   7 I still claim that VMS havn't been a "desktop OS" for aw6 number of years now. And was it ever ? How many used a= VAX- or Alpha-station, that didn't also had some VMS *server*  to manage at the same time ?  = The high stability in VMS just isn't needed on the *desktop*. 0 Some says it is, but the "market" says it isn't.   Best Regards Jan-Erik Sderholm.          Larry Kilgallen wrote: > e > In article <3E2454DC.5EB6CDAE@aaa.com>, Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> writes: C > > I'm a DECdoc user myself, but always convert the PS output fromi@ > > DECdoc into PDF on-the-fly, and reads the PDF on a PC. After@ > > all, a PC is where this documentation will be read anyway... > E > That does not address the problem of using the DEC Document Graphict0 > Editor on VMS being limited to V7.2 and below.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 15:37:16 -0800n$ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>7 Subject: RE: Most common OpenVMS versions in use today? 0 Message-ID: <01C2BBE2.D79897E0@sulfer.icius.com>  D I was once in a programmer-farm where every programmer had a privateG workstation to work on. Yes, there was a central server, but it was theeE repository for the work after the programmer finished with it working,? locally. The workstations were where most of the work got done.s  H I still favour that setup for development. That way I can do anything onB my machine I like, without messing up anybody else. Working on oneB central machine now, I keep having to wait for everyone to go home! before I can do the tricky stuff.    Shanet   -----Original Message-----/ From: Jan-Erik S=F6derholm [mailto:aaa@aaa.com]o' Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 3:20 PM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com-7 Subject: Re: Most common OpenVMS versions in use today?r    ; OK, so keep a 7.2 system then as long as you think you have @ to use *that* tool. Now, I havn't used the DECdoc graphic editor? and havn't checked the functions in it, but is there realy *no*o5 PC tool that does the same job, perhaps even better ?e  7 I still claim that VMS havn't been a "desktop OS" for a 6 number of years now. And was it ever ? How many used a= VAX- or Alpha-station, that didn't also had some VMS *server*m to manage at the same time ?  = The high stability in VMS just isn't needed on the *desktop*.J0 Some says it is, but the "market" says it isn't.   Best Regards Jan-Erik S=F6derholm.N         Larry Kilgallen wrote: >=202 > In article <3E2454DC.5EB6CDAE@aaa.com>, Jan-Erik8 =3D?iso-8859-1?Q?S=3DF6derholm?=3D <aaa@aaa.com> writes:C > > I'm a DECdoc user myself, but always convert the PS output fromv@ > > DECdoc into PDF on-the-fly, and reads the PDF on a PC. After@ > > all, a PC is where this documentation will be read anyway... >=20E > That does not address the problem of using the DEC Document Graphic 0 > Editor on VMS being limited to V7.2 and below.   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Jan 2003 16:36:25 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)67 Subject: Re: Most common OpenVMS versions in use today?-3 Message-ID: <ytu8CByI5ada@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <3E2454DC.5EB6CDAE@aaa.com>, Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> writes:iA > I'm a DECdoc user myself, but always convert the PS output from$> > DECdoc into PDF on-the-fly, and reads the PDF on a PC. After> > all, a PC is where this documentation will be read anyway...  C That does not address the problem of using the DEC Document Graphicf. Editor on VMS being limited to V7.2 and below.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 00:55:30 +0100 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>n7 Subject: Re: Most common OpenVMS versions in use today? ' Message-ID: <3E24A372.E7FED3E2@aaa.com>p  6 Sure, but then we are not talking traditinal *desktop*7 tools such as DECwrite, DECquery, DECdecision, are we ?2   And *when* was "once" ?   3 I still claim, VMS *might* have been a "desktop" OSa: some time ago, it's not now, and it will never be (again).  	 Jan-Erik.(   Shane Smith wrote: > F > I was once in a programmer-farm where every programmer had a private > workstation to work on.e   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Jan 2003 22:45:55 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)e7 Subject: Re: Most common OpenVMS versions in use today?a3 Message-ID: <vnLeT$27WsYX@eisner.encompasserve.org>g  c In article <3E249B3D.C8B0432F@aaa.com>, Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> writes:e= > OK, so keep a 7.2 system then as long as you think you have.B > to use *that* tool. Now, I havn't used the DECdoc graphic editorA > and havn't checked the functions in it, but is there realy *no*m7 > PC tool that does the same job, perhaps even better ?i  5 "The same job" includes creating Bookreader graphics.0    Does that answer your question ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 14:06:17 -0500i- From: Jonathan Boswell <jsb@ost.cdrh.fda.gov>m# Subject: Re: Network install of VMSs0 Message-ID: <3E245FA9.59E34309@ost.cdrh.fda.gov>   JF Mezei wrote:cM > If you do not have a companion VMS machine nearby, your only bet is to openlP > the VLC and crimp a scsi connector onto the ribbon that leads to the drive and  L What's wrong with the big 50pin Centronics SCSI connector on the back?  This isn't a VS2K you know...   ------------------------------   Date: 14 Jan 2003 22:34:42 GMT& From: Rick Jones <foo@bar.baz.invalid>$ Subject: Re: Network troubleshooters* Message-ID: <b023a2$jvd$3@web1.cup.hp.com>  & Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote:C > The first thing I'd check for is duplex mismatch. Check for largeN9 > numbers of "late collisions" in Cisco "show interface".n  F I am pretty sure that is only when the interface is in half-duplex. IfA the interface is in full-duplex, the tip-off would be FCS errors.n  
 rick jones --  F these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway... :)A feel free to post, OR email to raj in cup.hp.com  but NOT BOTH...f   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 01:26:52 GMTj# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>a Subject: Re: Newbie to OpenVMS. K Message-ID: <wN2V9.339405$F2h1.320087@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>e  F "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> wrote in message news:3e230234$1@news.si.com... > F > One book might be "VAX/VMS Internals and Data Structures" by Ruth E.' > Goldberg and Lawrence J. Kenah, 1991,eC > ISBN 1-55558-059-9.  This is for VAX/VMS V5.2.  Also try "OpenVMS  Alpha C > Internals and Data Structures: Scheduling and Process Control" by  Ruth E.cD > Goldberg and Saro Saravanen, 1996, ISBN 1-55558-156-0 and "OpenVMS Alpha3> > Internals and Data Structures: Memory Management" by Ruth E. Goldberg, 2002,4E > ISBN 1-55558-159-5.  Amazon shows they have one copy of this latterd book > left.n  C Which raises another interesting point......will there be any booksfA written about the changes to VMS required by IA-64, a la "OpenVMSpD Itanic Internals", or will there not be sufficient demand for such a book or other similar titles?h   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 01:36:19 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> 5 Subject: No mention of Digital in official HP history K Message-ID: <nW2V9.339522$F2h1.217098@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>n   It figures. ? http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/abouthp/histnfacts/timeline/index.htmlM  E Arguably the most innovative computer company, Digital's achievements D in computing are studiously ignored in HP's corporate history, while, clonemaker Compaq is trumpeted to the world.   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Jan 2003 14:49:53 -0800  From: otto@programmer.net (Otto)+ Subject: OpenVMS for AlphaStation 200 4/233d= Message-ID: <c0b935a5.0301141449.4f2b65ce@posting.google.com>   : What is the oldest OpenVMS for the AlphaStation 200 4/233?   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 14:49:47 -0800 $ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>/ Subject: RE: OpenVMS for AlphaStation 200 4/233s0 Message-ID: <01C2BBDC.3D1FF920@sulfer.icius.com>  C The oldest would be OpenVMS AXP 1.5, but I wouldn't use it. It's aneC early adopter's version, contemporary with OpenVMS VAX 5.something, @ 5.5-2 I think. The earliest one I'd consider using would be 6.0.   Why?   Shanee   -----Original Message-----6 From: otto@programmer.net [mailto:otto@programmer.net]' Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 2:50 PM4 To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comi+ Subject: OpenVMS for AlphaStation 200 4/233j    : What is the oldest OpenVMS for the AlphaStation 200 4/233?   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 23:01:43 GMTe" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG/ Subject: Re: OpenVMS for AlphaStation 200 4/233v0 Message-ID: <00A19F7F.7739430E@SendSpamHere.ORG>  ` In article <c0b935a5.0301141449.4f2b65ce@posting.google.com>, otto@programmer.net (Otto) writes:; >What is the oldest OpenVMS for the AlphaStation 200 4/233?a   IIRC, V6.2.a   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMh            f5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" s   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 00:55:49 GMTn" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG/ Subject: RE: OpenVMS for AlphaStation 200 4/233n0 Message-ID: <00A19F8F.671A455B@SendSpamHere.ORG>  W In article <01C2BBDC.3D1FF920@sulfer.icius.com>, Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> writes:tD >The oldest would be OpenVMS AXP 1.5, but I wouldn't use it. It's anD >early adopter's version, contemporary with OpenVMS VAX 5.something,A >5.5-2 I think. The earliest one I'd consider using would be 6.0.i  C On an AS200, Shane?  I vaguely remember trying to install V6.1 and x there were issues. --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM,            ,5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" -   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 17:35:24 -0800=$ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>/ Subject: RE: OpenVMS for AlphaStation 200 4/233e0 Message-ID: <01C2BBF3.5FD55A20@sulfer.icius.com>  3 I bow to your greater wisdom, oh mighty VAXman! :-)I  H I thought the AS200 was old enough that it didn't have version issues. I can't say I've tried it.   Shaner   -----Original Message-----B From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG [mailto:VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG]' Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 4:56 PMn To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Come/ Subject: RE: OpenVMS for AlphaStation 200 4/233r    < In article <01C2BBDC.3D1FF920@sulfer.icius.com>, Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> writes:D >The oldest would be OpenVMS AXP 1.5, but I wouldn't use it. It's anD >early adopter's version, contemporary with OpenVMS VAX 5.something,A >5.5-2 I think. The earliest one I'd consider using would be 6.0.n  C On an AS200, Shane?  I vaguely remember trying to install V6.1 and   there were issues. --2 VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001 VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM            e5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" h   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 01:55:41 GMTc( From: "Mark E. Levy" <mlevy70@attbi.com>/ Subject: Re: OpenVMS for AlphaStation 200 4/233 @ Message-ID: <xc3V9.683796$%m4.3394381@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>  . I have. Runs 7.3-1 without issues or problems.   ML  1 "Shane Smith" <ssmith@icius.com> wrote in messagel* news:01C2BBF3.5FD55A20@sulfer.icius.com...5 > I bow to your greater wisdom, oh mighty VAXman! :-)i >dJ > I thought the AS200 was old enough that it didn't have version issues. I > can't say I've tried it. >H > Shane  >A > -----Original Message-----D > From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG [mailto:VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG]) > Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 4:56 PMe > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com$1 > Subject: RE: OpenVMS for AlphaStation 200 4/233t >e >y> > In article <01C2BBDC.3D1FF920@sulfer.icius.com>, Shane Smith > <ssmith@icius.com> writes:F > >The oldest would be OpenVMS AXP 1.5, but I wouldn't use it. It's anF > >early adopter's version, contemporary with OpenVMS VAX 5.something,C > >5.5-2 I think. The earliest one I'd consider using would be 6.0.  >tD > On an AS200, Shane?  I vaguely remember trying to install V6.1 and > there were issues. > --4 > VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001 > VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM > 6 >   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" >g   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Jan 2003 22:47:34 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)i/ Subject: RE: OpenVMS for AlphaStation 200 4/233n3 Message-ID: <vF1KbWV$eq7D@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  U In article <00A19F8F.671A455B@SendSpamHere.ORG>,   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:nY > In article <01C2BBDC.3D1FF920@sulfer.icius.com>, Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> writes:vE >>The oldest would be OpenVMS AXP 1.5, but I wouldn't use it. It's an E >>early adopter's version, contemporary with OpenVMS VAX 5.something,rB >>5.5-2 I think. The earliest one I'd consider using would be 6.0. > E > On an AS200, Shane?  I vaguely remember trying to install V6.1 and m > there were issues.  N The "new machine" when V1.5 came out _might_ have been the DEC 3000 model 300.   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Jan 2003 12:03:19 -0800 From: olu-o@mail.com (Atcq4eva)B Subject: Product kit questiono= Message-ID: <3b1ab430.0301141203.471b5eb7@posting.google.com>t   Hello, u  E I working on some legacy code, compiling c++ on vax vms 5.5 with DECC-A 6.0. I'm getting compiler errors complaining about missing headeroE files iostream.hxx and exc_handling.h. I'm guessing I need to installiE a C++ Library kit and possibly DCE Applications developer's kit. DoesrF anyone know of a site that will allow me to see what the kit names and versions are needed?   Thanks,    Olue   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 15:01:59 -0500s From: G Everhart <ge@gce.com>( Subject: QIO lengths& Message-ID: <3E246CB7.1010601@gce.com>   re QIO length:X Even on Vax, the bytecount in a $qio can be 32 bits long. The IRP field is 32 bits wide.P (If I recall rightly it is still the same on Alpha, but I can't look from here.)  P The underlying I/O system will usually limit the device calls though. Problem isR address adapter hardware. It tends to be a finite resource, and if you have a veryO long I/O request and wind up using up most of the mapping registers on that oneuN request, other I/O gets starved. SCSI has it especially tough, in that it willL generally try to keep many operations queued to the devices on the bus. ThisM means the mapping resources get used up faster than in systems where only onetR operation may be outstanding on a device at a time. Then too, some SCSI operationsM can be very lengthy, and there is not a very robust way to tell how long suchoN operations will take (particularly for tape, but some disk operations may take longer than you expect too).  P Generally all this gets hidden from programs, which can just request long I/O if
 they want to.-  S The foregoing is true if one uses qio or io_perform. RMS has its own limitations on1S record size many of which are rooted in 16 bit record length sizes that were chosen1S back when a 5 megabyte disk was considered large and back when Fortran was the onlyaU universal assembler. Of course, there is no requirement to generate files using thoseoY old formats, apart from tradition and inertia, today...but still RMS has size limitationsF that show up here and there.  Q To look on the bright side, rejoice that this is so, for the alternative might bee buffer overflow bugs lurking.   T Incidentally, $qio to file structured devices is perfectly OK, but has some behaviorO that people may find odd. For example, there is no enforcement of read-only, nosS locking, no end of file checking OR setting, no automatic file extension...all thisrN must be done by hand. You get familiar with io$_modify if you do some of this.  R Also if you are careless with $qio and happen to have log_io privs, it is not that hard to blow away a boot block.  Glenn Everhart   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 05:40:21 GMTe From: rivie@RIvie.no.domain  Subject: Re: QIO lengths1 Message-ID: <slrnb29pgn.6t.rivie@RIvie.no.domain>o  8 In article <3E246CB7.1010601@gce.com>, G Everhart wrote: > re QIO length:J > Even on Vax, the bytecount in a $qio can be 32 bits long. The IRP field K > is 32 bits wide. (If I recall rightly it is still the same on Alpha, but a > I can't look from here.)  B I've done megabyte transfers to a SCSI disk on a VAX, with a logicG analyzer on the bus so I knew megabytes were actually being transferred  between command packets. -- -
 Roger Ivie rivie@ridgenet.net   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 20:15:25 -0600c@ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.spamfree.net>  Subject: Re: Reading file in DCL6 Message-ID: <3E24C43D.C5B5E717@earthlink.spamfree.net>   JF Mezei wrote:m >  > "David J. Dachtera" wrote: > > $ READ/END=EOF_INP INP P9  > > $ GOTO READ_LOOP
 > > $EOF_INP:e > > $ CLOSE INPc > > $ P9_LEN = F$LENGTH( P9 )a > N > Question: when you reach end of file, and the READ statement branches to theO > /END=label, is there a garantee that the target symbol remains unchanged (eg:n+ > still contains the last succesful read) ?   ) I've never seen it any other way, FWIW...n  P > Also, in a fixed 512 file, will the last read yield the right number of bytes,M > or just 512 bytes (with badding from true end of file to fill 512 bytes). ?V  C Rather depends who wrote the file. If the EOF byte is set someplaceeH other than a 512-byte boundary, I would expect RMS to return the correctH number of bytes in the last record, but I've not experimented to verify.C ZIP and UNZIP seem to handle it just fine, for what THAT's worth...n   -- n David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemsr http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/v   ------------------------------   Date: 14 Jan 2003 20:36 CDTa' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)e  Subject: Re: Reading file in DCL- Message-ID: <14JAN200320365303@gerg.tamu.edu>1  4 JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes... }"David J. Dachtera" wrote:M }> $ READ/END=EOF_INP INP P9 }> $ GOTO READ_LOOPe }> $EOF_INP: }> $ CLOSE INP }> $ P9_LEN = F$LENGTH( P9 ) }  } M }Question: when you reach end of file, and the READ statement branches to thelN }/END=label, is there a garantee that the target symbol remains unchanged (eg:* }still contains the last succesful read) ?  # Of course it will remain unchanged.a  C If DCL just randomly changed user defined symbols behind youyr back > it would not be possible to write any programs with it at all.? If you don't change it, it remains unchanged. (This is not trueIC for symbols that are not user defined, such as $STATUS, of course.)   O }Also, in a fixed 512 file, will the last read yield the right number of bytes,kL }or just 512 bytes (with badding from true end of file to fill 512 bytes). ?  	 Beats me.u   --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 22:33:24 -0400s0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>  Subject: Re: Reading file in DCL/ Message-ID: <3E24C856.E171F737@vl.videotron.ca>    Carl Perkins wrote:cE > If DCL just randomly changed user defined symbols behind youyr back-@ > it would not be possible to write any programs with it at all.   But when you issue:a  " $READ/END=ENDLABEL myfile MYSYMBOL  C don't you implicitely agree to have the value of MYSYMBOL changed ?o  I If it reaches end-of file, wouldn't it be logical for the READ to set the J value of MYSYMBOL to null before branching to ENDLABEL ? Or does it really leave MYSYMBOL unchanged?e   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 22:36:05 -0600:@ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.spamfree.net>  Subject: Re: Reading file in DCL6 Message-ID: <3E24E535.BD841B6C@earthlink.spamfree.net>   JF Mezei wrote:e >  > Carl Perkins wrote:VG > > If DCL just randomly changed user defined symbols behind youyr backrB > > it would not be possible to write any programs with it at all. >  > But when you issue:  > $ > $READ/END=ENDLABEL myfile MYSYMBOL > E > don't you implicitely agree to have the value of MYSYMBOL changed ?s > K > If it reaches end-of file, wouldn't it be logical for the READ to set theuL > value of MYSYMBOL to null before branching to ENDLABEL ? Or does it really > leave MYSYMBOL unchanged?S   DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ sh sym ai-   A = "A "string" with "unbalanced" quotes.""e! DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ open inp nla0:i DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ read inp a   %RMS-E-EOF, end of file detected DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ sh sym aw-   A = "A "string" with "unbalanced" quotes.""X DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ close inp   Whaddaya think?t   --   David J. Dachterai dba DJE Systems/ http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/T   ------------------------------   Date: 14 Jan 2003 22:21 CDTs' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)h  Subject: Re: Reading file in DCL- Message-ID: <14JAN200322215955@gerg.tamu.edu>   4 JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes... }Carl Perkins wrote:F }> If DCL just randomly changed user defined symbols behind youyr backA }> it would not be possible to write any programs with it at all.  }  }But when you issue: } # }$READ/END=ENDLABEL myfile MYSYMBOLw } D }don't you implicitely agree to have the value of MYSYMBOL changed ?  L You agree to have it changed to the contents of a record read from the file.J If you are at the EOF and try another read, there is no record to read andG thus no read is actually done. Since there was no actual read, there isf no change either.w  J }If it reaches end-of file, wouldn't it be logical for the READ to set theK }value of MYSYMBOL to null before branching to ENDLABEL ? Or does it reallyt }leave MYSYMBOL unchanged?   It really leaves it unchanged.   The help says:  F      Reads a single record from a specified input file and assigns the2      record's contents to a specified symbol name.  E If you are at EOF there is nothing to read, nothing read, and nothing,F to assign to the symbol. Since there isn't anything to assign (and, inE fact, there was no actual read since you can't do a read that is pastr/ the end of the file), it doesn't do the assign.n  F If they had wanted to, I suppose they could have had it set the symbolF to be equal to a zero length string (assigning the nothing that is theJ contents of the non-existant record from past the end of the file, insteadK of not assinging because you couldn't actually do a read). But they didn't.    Try it yourself:   $ open foo sys$login:login.com $read_loop:  $ read/end=rend foo zz $ goto read_loop $rend: $ close foo  $ write sys$output zzt  ! Compare this with the output fromq  ! $ type/tail=1 sys$login:login.comi  3 I think you'll find that they give the same result.e  I This is probably similar in some respects to the discussion (or argument) H of what should happen if you do an f$getdvi to check the availability ofL a device that doesn't exist. As it is, if a device doesn't exist then askingI if it is available is a non-sequtor (how much does your non-existant pink E elephant weigh?) so it returns an error. Likewise, if you aks for theuH contents of a record that doesn't exist you don't get any data back (andG the contents of the variable that the data would ahve gone into remainsiI unchanged) abd you get an error (the "end of file" error is special cased I to the /END qualifier, but if that doesn't exist it will jump to the /ERR I qualifier's specified location, if that is present, and you will have thes- RMS$_EOF status code in $STATUS in any case).f   --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 23:45:16 -0400o0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>  Subject: Re: Reading file in DCL/ Message-ID: <3E24D92A.E0329392@vl.videotron.ca>    "David J. Dachtera" wrote: > Whaddaya think?o  $ I am thinking about a chocolate bar.  7 Ok, so the symbol isn't changed when READ gets to EOF. k  J But is there a garantee that this is part of the documented  behaviour, orC just some lucky behaviour that the VMS engineers decide to change ?m  K There are many things that work right now but that oen should not rely uponpU because it may change in the future. It is in that context that I asked the question.8   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 17:01:15 -0400r0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>D Subject: Re: Retrieve RMS Key information at runtime (using Fortran)/ Message-ID: <3E247A8F.3385DD2C@vl.videotron.ca>g  L Here is some code (in C) that does pull out the key information from a file.  1        dsab_rms->fab           = cc$rms_fab     ;u6         dsab_rms->fab.fab$l_fna = dsab_rms->filename ;B         dsab_rms->fab.fab$b_fns = strlen(dsab_rms->fab.fab$l_fna);E         dsab_rms->fab.fab$b_fac = dsab_rms->fab.fab$b_fac | fac_opt ;u+         dsab_rms->fab.fab$b_shr = shr_opt ; I         dsab_rms->fab.fab$l_xab = &dsab_rms->xabsum ;   <---- summary xab  first in chain  .         dsab_rms->nam           = cc$rms_nam ;2         dsab_rms->fab.fab$l_nam = &dsab_rms->nam ;  .         dsab_rms->xabsum    = cc$rms_xabsum  ;M         dsab_rms->xabsum.xab$l_nxt = &dsab_rms->xabfhc ;  <---link to the fhcv xab >r  .         dsab_rms->xabfhc    = cc$rms_xabfhc  ;G         dsab_rms->xabfhc.xab$l_nxt = 0 ;   <--- last in chain (for now)     N   status = SYS$OPEN(&dsab_rms->fab,0,0);   <---- fills the xabsum and xabfhc >!         if(status != RMS$_NORMAL)l	         {v#                 lib$signal(status);s                 return(status);e	         }a  G dsab_rms->num_keys = dsab_rms->xabsum.xab$b_nok ;   <=== number of keysmN dsab_rms->reclength = dsab_rms->xabfhc.xab$w_lrl ;  <=== record length (fixed)  G dsab_rms->xabkey = malloc( dsab_rms->num_keys * sizeof(struct XABKEY)); M dsab_rms->xabfhc.xab$l_nxt = dsab_rms->xabkey ;  <- make fhc now point to thee first xabkey  & /** now populate array of key xabs **/  * for( x= 0 ; x < dsab_rms->num_keys ; x ++)	         {'-         dsab_rms->xabkey[x] = cc$rms_xabkey ;7+         dsab_rms->xabkey[x].xab$b_ref = x ;eM         dsab_rms->xabkey[x].xab$l_knm = malloc(33);  ( 32 bytes plus the nullt for C strings )aL         dsab_rms->xabkey[x].xab$l_nxt = &(dsab_rms->xabkey[x+1]) ;  <- point to next xabkey	         }eS dsab_rms->xabkey[dsab_rms->num_keys - 1].xab$l_nxt = 0 ;  <=== terminate the chain.S  7   status = SYS$DISPLAY(&dsab_rms->fab,0,0);  <= voila !,!         if(status != RMS$_NORMAL)h	         {t#                 lib$signal(status);b                 return(status);l        I The RMS manual has a very good description of each of the structures, theRI possible values of each field etc etc. Note that the XABKEY structure can K contain an array of fields (position, length) when you have segmented keys.d   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 21:11:39 -0800j7 From: David Spencer <spencer@spaamfree.pageweavers.com> B Subject: searching for seemingly obscure disk activity light cableB Message-ID: <140120032111399753%spencer@spaamfree.pageweavers.com>  F Sorry if this is slightly off topic; but this is for a VMS machine. :)  \ I need a disk activity light cable for a Digital Personal Workstation 500au. The part number[ I've discovered is 17-04472-01 and is made by Amphenol. It's a simple cable - it has a four O pin connector on both ends and connects the motherboard to the SCSI controller.d  X Mine was wrecked and I'd like to get another. So far I've only found one source and theyW want $40 for it. Considering it's a very simple cable (one 14" wire between two plasticeY connectors) I consider that excessive. Does anybody know where I can get spares on things. like this??n   Thanks very much.A     -- Dave Spencer, PageWeavers   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 21:09:42 +0100:2 From: rossbach.dieter@t-online.de (Dieter Robach) Subject: Re: smtp to vmsmail/ Message-ID: <b01qq6$hvi$04$1@news.t-online.com>e   >eF >No, I'm runnning 7.3-1 with VMS731_sys-V200, but the description for  >VMS73_SYS-V0500K >fits exactly to my problem. I'll double the ctlpages and see what happens.n >   L That didn't help. Even going a factor of 10 was unsuccessful: I restored my K backup (yes, I did one before upgrading!) with VMS 7.3-1 and SYS_V100, now e, everything is fine. Let's wait for SYS_V300.  " Nevertheless, thanks for your help   Dieter   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 20:35:09 GMTu% From: Don Sykes <alphase@pacbell.net>p Subject: Re: smtp to vmsmail+ Message-ID: <3E2474F8.C0921911@pacbell.net>-  5 (sorry for the 2nd post. I had my Identity set wrong)1  3 This sounds similar to a problem I've been having. aG Using VMS 7.2 (no patches) TCPIP 5.1 (no patches). All works fine for aeH few days, then Incoming mail sits in the files in [TCPIP$SMTP]. 3 queuesF running but nothing gets delivered (I'm only using the POP service forB final delivery). I run alanlize mail/repair and every entry shows:5 %TCPIP-I-ANA_NOENTR, internal consistency check errorwH Some mail then gets delivered then it usually stops again! The msg above$ ALWAYS shows up during analyze mail.E Sometimes I have to manually delete a number of files in order to gets things started again. 
 Any ideas?     "Dieter Robach" wrote:  > F > I am running VMS 7.3-1 with the lastest patches and TCPIP 5.1 ECO 1. > % > I have a strange problem with smtp:a >  > Outgoing mail works fine.nP > Incoming mail is delivered to vmsmail but the que entry in the smtp processingN > queue stays in "processing" mode and does not finish. The final announcementJ > about new mail via vmsmail is not send, but the mail is in the "newmail"% > folder, when you open your mailbox.n >  > What's that? > 	 > Regardso >  > Dieter   --     Have VMS, Will Travelo Wire paladin (at alphaseDOTcom) 
 San Franciscoe   "Dieter Robach" wrote:o > F > I am running VMS 7.3-1 with the lastest patches and TCPIP 5.1 ECO 1. > % > I have a strange problem with smtp:  >  > Outgoing mail works fine.tP > Incoming mail is delivered to vmsmail but the que entry in the smtp processingN > queue stays in "processing" mode and does not finish. The final announcementJ > about new mail via vmsmail is not send, but the mail is in the "newmail"% > folder, when you open your mailbox.t >  > What's that? > 	 > Regardst >  > Dieter   -- o   Have VMS, Will Travels Wire paladin (at alphaseDOTcom) 
 San Francisco    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 04:22:43 GMTl1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>v Subject: Re: smtp to vmsmail2 Message-ID: <3E24E1E0.E8F1822D@firstdbasource.com>   "Dieter Robach" wrote:  >  > >fG > >No, I'm runnning 7.3-1 with VMS731_sys-V200, but the description for- > >VMS73_SYS-V0500M > >fits exactly to my problem. I'll double the ctlpages and see what happens.c > >: > M > That didn't help. Even going a factor of 10 was unsuccessful: I restored myoL > backup (yes, I did one before upgrading!) with VMS 7.3-1 and SYS_V100, now. > everything is fine. Let's wait for SYS_V300. > $ > Nevertheless, thanks for your help >  > Dieter  G we run ~30 2-node clusters with the SYS_V0500 patch with no problems...,, with CTLPAGES set to a minimum of 1600-2200.   -- o Regards,  6 Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 19847 First DBA Source, Inc.    Registered Linux User #261163i   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 20:36:54 GMT % From: Don Sykes <alphase@pacbell.net>o- Subject: Re: Software distribution technologyf+ Message-ID: <3E247561.146BE993@pacbell.net>?  / (sorry for the 2nd post, I had my Id set wrong)o    I just finished a similar setup.  1. Customer fills out web form. E 2. User's email & generated password is added to a file NOT under the' web document directoryA 2a. Email is sent back to him with details on how to download the F software including a userid & generated password (NOT a VMS user/pass)G 2b. At the same time, a directory is created under the primary documente1 directory on a VMS machine allowing http access. oH 3. User access via a web form filling in userid & passw mailed to him. ID check the entry against the file I updated in step 2. At that time IB also add an entry to the access.log file in that dir, so I can see) exactly when and how often he downloaded.rE 3a. A Webpage is dynamically created pointing to the user's directoryyE w/o the ".html" giving him access to any of the file's I put there inl directory fashion.4 4. Browser requests download of any file clicked on.  A I actually copy the files to the directory and a separate processaH deletes the files & directory after a given time. I do not use the aliasH (set file/ent) because the zip files I create are unique and contain the user's unique license.  A You can try this by downloading an evaluation version of the Java:= product for free at http://alphase.com/aex/Announcement.html.8  E I also set up a version for anonymous ftp, since C/Net requires a onefF step download process for evaluation software, but of course all I canA capture about that is their IP address and date/time of download.u   -- o   Have VMS, Will Travel  Wire paladin (at alphaseDOTcom)r
 San Franciscot       JF Mezei wrote:t > * > Just a trial balloon, comments please... > O > Customer fills out web form. Email is sent back to him with details on how to P > download the sofware. At the same time, an account is created on a VMS machineN > allowing FTP access. In his SYS$LOGIN, alias entries to the software package8 > he is allowed to download are added (set file /enter). > O > This way, he can come back to download the software again if needed. If a newwN > version comes out, one can add a new entry to the sys$logins to point to theM > new version of the software (giving him access tothe old and new versions).n >  > How workable would that be ? > N > My goal would be to better track who uses my software (it would be freeware)H > so that I could also send email announcements of new versions etc etc. > L > Would makin software available via non-anonymous FTP be a big problems forH > some folks whose corporate infrastructure may allow HTTP but not FTP ?   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 02:27:05 GMT  From: danco@ns2.pebble.orgY Subject: Re: The manual says "Do not use QIO for reading from a file" has anyone heard ofp1 Message-ID: <slrnb29lbv.l8k.danco@ns2.pebble.org>   M In article <fbcf38dc.0301141045.25fd47be@posting.google.com>, RC Bryan wrote:   E > I admit I did not read every last bit of the surrounding text but IrD > have to ask, "What does the system use for reading?"  Am I missingD > something here?  What are we supposed to use to read non-RMS data?  E QIO is good.  RMS BLOCK I/O is okay.  The C Run-Time Library file I/OtG functions in recent OpenVMS versions are also good (they're also easierm= for some programmers to code to and certainly more portable).C   - Dan@   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 20:08:19 +0100:6 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>Y Subject: Re: The manual says "Do not use QIO for reading from a file" has anyone heard ofa) Message-ID: <3E246023.7040002@vajhoej.dk>d   RC Bryan wrote: G > In the "OpenVMS Programming Concepts Manual" (which can be referencedd > at: C > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc/731FINAL/5841/5841pro_061.html)-G > in section 23.9.1: it says "Note  Do not use the SYS$QIO and SYS$QIOWK? > system services for input from a file or nonterminal device."y > E > I admit I did not read every last bit of the surrounding text but I4D > have to ask, "What does the system use for reading?"  Am I missingD > something here?  What are we supposed to use to read non-RMS data? >  > Comment anybody?   It works fine.   And I am sure RMS uses it too.  ; But there are much that can go wrong becaus eyou have to do. everything yourself.  < I guess Digital/Compaq/HP are not that interested in getting> support questions from people that have shot themselves in the foot.    Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 20:03:48 +0100 1 From: SAP Trainee <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr>rY Subject: Re: The manual says "Do not use QIO for reading from a file" has anyone heard of & Message-ID: <3E245F14.4050506@Free.fr>  H The QIO and QIOW system services are intended to perform synchronous or ' asynchronous I/O operations to devices."  K If you wish to read/write from/to a file, you'll do RMS read/write instead.-   My 2 euros.    D.G SAP joke of the day: There is a DEC installation folder in the SAP R/3 aE 4.6b documentation CD (dated 28-feb-2000), together with AIX, HP/UX,  * OS2, OS400, RELIANT, SOLARIS and Win-NT...   RC Bryan a crit:LG > In the "OpenVMS Programming Concepts Manual" (which can be referenceda > at:gC > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc/731FINAL/5841/5841pro_061.html)DG > in section 23.9.1: it says "Note  Do not use the SYS$QIO and SYS$QIOWr? > system services for input from a file or nonterminal device."h > E > I admit I did not read every last bit of the surrounding text but I D > have to ask, "What does the system use for reading?"  Am I missingD > something here?  What are we supposed to use to read non-RMS data? >  > Comment anybody? > 
 > Regards, > /RC Bryan    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 14:02:49 -0500a* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>. Subject: Re: VMS on Itanic boot report sighted2 Message-ID: <EnSdnQHDrrl0w7mjXTWcow@metrocast.net>  L "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star-dot-zko-dot-dec-dot-com> wrote in message( news:3e2428fb$1_3@hpb10302.boi.hp.com...7 > "Nick Maclaren" <nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk> wrote in message , > news:b00lmt$lma$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk... > > K > > As reports of VMS being about to boot on the Itanic have been appearing-+ > > for over a year now, I make no comment.0 > >3 >2G > Getting new compilers complete (Bliss, Macro-32, C), dealing with theeI > complexities of different calling standards and the need to continue to@F > support all that non-standard VAX code, a new linker, new tools, new objectH > format, new image format, new firmware standard (and ACPI) has taken aK > while.  Unlike a new UNIX platform, it's a bit more than just getting GCCe to > compile and link.t  K Well, I would have thought that all those would have been factored into theaE predictions close to 18 months ago, so while they might explain undueiD optimism in some hastily-patched-together attempts at damage controlK immediately after the Alphacide they hardly serve to explain the continuingc optimism thereafter.  K It sounds more like either the powers that be (or perhaps in some cases thelH powers that were) were loath to change their first-boot-date projectionsH once having made them public, despite clear indications from engineeringL that they were pure fiction (funny - reminds me of how Carly kept the lid onG the increasingly pessimistic internal projections during the pre-merger"I brouhaha and just kept repeating the earlier ones as gospel), or that theoF personnel devoted to the effort (plus the rest of on-going work) never ramped up as planned.h   > B > But the reports are fairly accurate as to just how close we are.  K That's nice, and the above should in no way be interpreted as an attempt toe* marginalize what was clearly a major task.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 17:11:23 -0400i0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>. Subject: Re: VMS on Itanic boot report sighted. Message-ID: <3E247CEF.CE7D535@vl.videotron.ca>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:B > But the reports are fairly accurate as to just how close we are.  H For the purposes of fairness on the "boot contest lottery", are you guysM forced to get a certain number of minutes of sleep per day, or does Sue forcetL you to work 7/24, feeding you coffee and cola to get the boot to come sooner rather than later ?u  M Is Hoff still alive, or has he become a zombie, welded to his IA64 computer ,  not talking to anyone anymore ?k   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 16:26:47 -0500a& From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>. Subject: Re: VMS on Itanic boot report sighted. Message-ID: <Ya0V9.62$Ua3.29@news.cpqcorp.net>   JF Mezei wrote:o  O > Is Hoff still alive, or has he become a zombie, welded to his IA64 computer , ! > not talking to anyone anymore ?a  G Can't say for Hoff, but I (and others) have been here past midnight on  C several occasions as well as spending several weekend days as well.D   -- 9 John Reaganu' Compaq Pascal/{A|I}MACRO Project Leader  Hewlett-Packard Companyt   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Jan 2003 16:32:34 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)) Subject: Re: Webserver advice for VAX/VMS = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0301141632.6a8f6554@posting.google.com>e  q goathunter@goatley.com (Hunter Goatley) wrote in message news:<3ff5fed3.0212261434.786ccb6@posting.google.com>...S > F > While we appreciate your enthusiasm, there's no big conspiracy here. > The facts are these: > B >    - Purveyor sales did not justify continued development of theA >      product, so Process stopped developing it a few years ago.o > > >    - Over those few years, Purveyor has fallen behind in its? >      feature set (it's HTTP V1.0 only, etc).  Making PurveyorpE >      competitive again would take a significant Engineering effort.SA >      Significant Engineering effort isn't going to happen for afA >      product that doesn't sell.  And Purveyor doesn't sell wellfE >      because people can get and use OSU, WASD, and Apache for free.- >  > Hunter > ------; > Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/m > goathunter@goatley.com  C wait a minute ... purveyor 2.1 is an http 1.1 server!  what are youa talking about?   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.029 ************************