0 INFO-VAX	Wed, 15 Jan 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 30      Contents: Re: AS400 & Open VMS Re: AS400 & Open VMS Re: AS400 & Open VMS Re: AS400 & Open VMS
 block site Re: block site Re: block site Re: block site blocksize of system  Control-P on al alpha 4100 Re: Control-P on al alpha 4100 DBI::Proxyserver DBD::Rdb . Getting started with an AlphaStation 200 4/2332 Re: Getting started with an AlphaStation 200 4/2332 Re: Getting started with an AlphaStation 200 4/2332 Re: Getting started with an AlphaStation 200 4/2332 Re: Getting started with an AlphaStation 200 4/2332 Re: Getting started with an AlphaStation 200 4/2332 Re: Getting started with an AlphaStation 200 4/233% Re: Going totally crazy - please help % Re: Going totally crazy - please help % Re: Going totally crazy - please help  Gold Key cards and DHCP  Re: Gold Key cards and DHCP 0 How to make a harddisk accessible via NFS on VMS4 Re: How to make a harddisk accessible via NFS on VMS4 Re: How to make a harddisk accessible via NFS on VMS4 Re: How to make a harddisk accessible via NFS on VMS0 incomprehensible mountVerifyTimeout in a cluster4 Re: incomprehensible mountVerifyTimeout in a cluster# Re: Marvel talks at The Inquirer... # Re: Marvel talks at The Inquirer... # Re: Marvel talks at The Inquirer... # Re: Marvel talks at The Inquirer... # Re: Marvel talks at The Inquirer...  Re: Microvax Floating point  Re: Microvax Floating point . Re: Most common OpenVMS versions in use today?. Re: Most common OpenVMS versions in use today?. Re: Most common OpenVMS versions in use today?. RE: Most common OpenVMS versions in use today? Re: Network install of VMS0 Re: No mention of Digital in official HP history0 Re: No mention of Digital in official HP history0 Re: No mention of Digital in official HP history0 Re: No mention of Digital in official HP history0 RE: No mention of Digital in official HP history& Re: OpenVMS for AlphaStation 200 4/233& Re: OpenVMS for AlphaStation 200 4/233& RE: OpenVMS for AlphaStation 200 4/233 Re: QIO lengths  Re: Reading file in DCL  Re: Reading file in DCL  Re: Reading file in DCL = Re: searching for seemingly obscure disk activity light cable P Re: The manual says "Do not use QIO for reading from a file" has  anyone heard oP Re: The manual says "Do not use QIO for reading from a file" has anyone heard ofP Re: The manual says "Do not use QIO for reading from a file" has anyone heard ofP Re: The manual says "Do not use QIO for reading from a file" has anyone heard of THREADCP problem. Upgrade VCS or PCM for FREE with ConsoleWorks!% Re: VMS on Itanic boot report sighted % Re: VMS on Itanic boot report sighted % where are diskeeper logicals defined?  XML (Apache Xerces/Xalan)  Re: XML (Apache Xerces/Xalan) , [LOOKING FOR] Identd/pidentd daemons for VMS0 Re: [LOOKING FOR] Identd/pidentd daemons for VMS  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 14 Jan 2003 23:47:33 -0800' From: taupin974@hotmail.com (taupin974)  Subject: Re: AS400 & Open VMS = Message-ID: <f948cf20.0301142347.50249a53@posting.google.com>   B So there is a vax emulator that allow me to install open vms on my= personnal computer ?! Don't need to be a 64 bits processor ?!     \ Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> wrote in message news:<01C2BBBD.9C7F32B0@sulfer.icius.com>...J > No. VAX, Alpha, or soon Itanium systems only. Or there's a VAX simulator@ > for PC's that will run it. Sorry, I don't have the link handy. > E > If you're serious about wanting to try it, my advice is to go get a > > cheap Alpha on eBay, and sign up for the hobbyist program atH > montagar.com. You'll need to get an encompass membership first; if youF > look hard enough on their website you'll find a link for a free one.G > Don't get suckered into paying, they try really hard to hide the free  > link.  >  > Shane  >  > -----Original Message-----< > From: taupin974@hotmail.com [mailto:taupin974@hotmail.com]* > Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 11:02 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  > Subject: AS400 & Open VMS  >  >  > HiI > I'd like to know if i can install open vms operating system on an AS400  > (ibm)  >  > Thx    ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 11:18:21 +0000 (UTC) + From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb)  Subject: Re: AS400 & Open VMS + Message-ID: <b03g1t$4dq$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>   g In article <f948cf20.0301142347.50249a53@posting.google.com>, taupin974@hotmail.com (taupin974) writes: C >So there is a vax emulator that allow me to install open vms on my > >personnal computer ?! Don't need to be a 64 bits processor ?! > H There are 2 implementations of VMS. VMS on Alpha which is 64bit and the - original VMS on VAX. Vaxes are 32bit systems.   L Although in general VMS is VMS whether it is on Alpha or VAX there are newerA developments on Alpha which take advantage of it's 64bit nature.    O I am aware of 3 VAX emulators for PCs though I've never personally used them :-   F 1) Charon-VAX  - unfortunately I believe this is now only a commercialK                  offering. There used to be a hobbyist version but that was                   dropped.   6 2) Ts10        -  Not sure where you can get this from  0 3) Simh        -  http://simh.trailing-edge.com/    / Both of the latter are public domain emulators.     
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   > ] >Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> wrote in message news:<01C2BBBD.9C7F32B0@sulfer.icius.com>... K >> No. VAX, Alpha, or soon Itanium systems only. Or there's a VAX simulator A >> for PC's that will run it. Sorry, I don't have the link handy.  >>  F >> If you're serious about wanting to try it, my advice is to go get a? >> cheap Alpha on eBay, and sign up for the hobbyist program at I >> montagar.com. You'll need to get an encompass membership first; if you G >> look hard enough on their website you'll find a link for a free one. H >> Don't get suckered into paying, they try really hard to hide the free >> link. >>   >> Shane >>   >> -----Original Message----- = >> From: taupin974@hotmail.com [mailto:taupin974@hotmail.com] + >> Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 11:02 AM  >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >> Subject: AS400 & Open VMS >>   >>   >> Hi J >> I'd like to know if i can install open vms operating system on an AS400 >> (ibm) >>   >> Thx   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 13:03:11 -0000 * From: "Darren Jolley" <darren@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: AS400 & Open VMS * Message-ID: <b03m6m$t86$1@web1.cup.hp.com>  : Ts10 can be found at http://sourceforge.net/projects/ts10/   /Darren   8 "David Webb" <david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk> wrote in message% news:b03g1t$4dq$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk... ? > In article <f948cf20.0301142347.50249a53@posting.google.com>, ) taupin974@hotmail.com (taupin974) writes: E > >So there is a vax emulator that allow me to install open vms on my @ > >personnal computer ?! Don't need to be a 64 bits processor ?! > > I > There are 2 implementations of VMS. VMS on Alpha which is 64bit and the / > original VMS on VAX. Vaxes are 32bit systems.  > H > Although in general VMS is VMS whether it is on Alpha or VAX there are newer B > developments on Alpha which take advantage of it's 64bit nature. > I > I am aware of 3 VAX emulators for PCs though I've never personally used  them :-  > H > 1) Charon-VAX  - unfortunately I believe this is now only a commercialI >                  offering. There used to be a hobbyist version but that  was  >                  dropped.  > 8 > 2) Ts10        -  Not sure where you can get this from > 2 > 3) Simh        -  http://simh.trailing-edge.com/ >  > 1 > Both of the latter are public domain emulators.  >  >  > David Webb > VMS and Unix team leader > CCSS > Middlesex University >  > > 2 > >Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> wrote in message, news:<01C2BBBD.9C7F32B0@sulfer.icius.com>...C > >> No. VAX, Alpha, or soon Itanium systems only. Or there's a VAX 	 simulator C > >> for PC's that will run it. Sorry, I don't have the link handy.  > >>H > >> If you're serious about wanting to try it, my advice is to go get aA > >> cheap Alpha on eBay, and sign up for the hobbyist program at K > >> montagar.com. You'll need to get an encompass membership first; if you I > >> look hard enough on their website you'll find a link for a free one. J > >> Don't get suckered into paying, they try really hard to hide the free
 > >> link. > >>
 > >> Shane > >> > >> -----Original Message----- ? > >> From: taupin974@hotmail.com [mailto:taupin974@hotmail.com] - > >> Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 11:02 AM  > >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > >> Subject: AS400 & Open VMS > >> > >> > >> Hi L > >> I'd like to know if i can install open vms operating system on an AS400
 > >> (ibm) > >> > >> Thx   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jan 2003 09:56:41 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: AS400 & Open VMS 3 Message-ID: <G9NDbsME2aL+@eisner.encompasserve.org>   g In article <f948cf20.0301141102.605d212f@posting.google.com>, taupin974@hotmail.com (taupin974) writes:  > HiO > I'd like to know if i can install open vms operating system on an AS400 (ibm)   H    You can put it their, but don't expect it to run.  Youl'd probably be&    better off installing MVS than VMS.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 19:44:38 +0530 5 From: "Sandeep Yelwatkar" <Sandeep_Yelwatkar@bmc.com>  Subject: block site / Message-ID: <v2ar2mif3i75e8@corp.supernews.com>    Hi    6 I want to know how to find the block size of savesets.   Any suggesstion is most welcome    Thanks Sandeep    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 14:33:47 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: block site 0 Message-ID: <00A1A001.AC157398@SendSpamHere.ORG>  g In article <v2ar2mif3i75e8@corp.supernews.com>, "Sandeep Yelwatkar" <Sandeep_Yelwatkar@bmc.com> writes:  >  >Hi  >  > 7 >I want to know how to find the block size of savesets.  >   >Any suggesstion is most welcome >  >Thanks  >Sandeep >  >   * Assume backup file is BACKUP_OF_A_DISK.SAV  ) $ DUMP/BLOCK=COUNT=1 BACKUP_OF_A_DISK.SAV R Dump of file SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSMGR]BACKUP_OF_A_DISK.SAV;1 on 15-JAN-2003 09:29:50.07B File ID (31353,28,0)   End of file block 629748 / Allocated 629755  3 Virtual block number 1 (00000001), 512 (0200) bytes   p  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000001 00010001 08000100 ................................ 000000p  5349445F 415F464F 5F50554B 43414214 00000001 00007E00 00000000 00010101 .........~.......BACKUP_OF_A_DIS 0000206                                                   ^^^^   $ Y = %x7E00 $ SHOW SYMBOL Y 1   Y = 32256   Hex = 00007E00  Octal = 00000077000    --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 15:35:07 +0100 0 From: "labadie" <en_trajectant_a_mort@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: block site - Message-ID: <wkeV9.22$By3.7@news.cpqcorp.net>   @ "Sandeep Yelwatkar" <Sandeep_Yelwatkar@bmc.com> wrote in message) news:v2ar2mif3i75e8@corp.supernews.com...  >  > Hi >  > 8 > I want to know how to find the block size of savesets. > ! > Any suggesstion is most welcome  >  > Thanks	 > Sandeep  >  >  Hello    see ; http://www.openvms.compaq.com/freeware/freeware50/000tools/  the file# reset_backup_saveset_attributes.com    or use $ bac/lis/analyse   3 or il will be in the symbol blocks in this com file   
 $ set noon  / $ if p1.eqs."".or.f$search(p1).eqs."" then exit   I $ ! put correct characteristics for a save set, and later the correct lrl   * $ ! which will be very often 32256 or 9216  : $ set file/attr=(rfm:fix,rat:none,mrs:32256,lrl:32256) 'p1  ; $ pipe bac/lis/ana 'p1/sav | sea sys$pipe "blocksize =" | -   1 ( read SYS$PIPE TMP ; DEFINE/JOB/NOLOG TMP &TMP )   , $ tmp1 = f$trnlnm("tmp","lnm$job","super",,)   $ loc = f$locate("=",tmp1)  " $ blocks = f$extract(loc+2,5,tmp1)  , $ set fil/attr=(lrl:'blocks,mrs:'blocks) 'p1   $ exit   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 18:57:34 +0100 6 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk> Subject: Re: block site ) Message-ID: <3E25A10E.6060900@vajhoej.dk>    Sandeep Yelwatkar wrote:8 > I want to know how to find the block size of savesets.   See:2    ftp://ftp.vajhoej.dk/collection/fix_saveset.zip.    ftp://ftp.vajhoej.dk/collection/reblock.zip (they both find and correct)   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 21:18:15 +0530 5 From: "Sandeep Yelwatkar" <Sandeep_Yelwatkar@bmc.com>  Subject: blocksize of system/ Message-ID: <v2b0i6iv5cfgeb@corp.supernews.com>    Hi,   K I am using system script call spkitbld.com to build the kit. In this script H /block is set equal to 9000. I want to know if  changing the /block=81927 affect the savesets the block size of savesets created. D Is there any other way to change the block size of savesets created.   Sandeep    ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jan 2003 07:03:22 -0800, From: millerk@hushmail.com (Kevin T. Miller)# Subject: Control-P on al alpha 4100 = Message-ID: <1f83b2aa.0301150703.1e96e681@posting.google.com>    Hello.    = Would a Control-P ever cause major file corruption to disks?  D Is it ever a good idea to perform a control-P when the machine is upB and running? Would this cause disk controllers to go bad also? Any$ help greatly appreciated. Thank you.   Kevin    ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jan 2003 10:13:24 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ' Subject: Re: Control-P on al alpha 4100 3 Message-ID: <gNdx$3cBtFlE@eisner.encompasserve.org>   l In article <1f83b2aa.0301150703.1e96e681@posting.google.com>, millerk@hushmail.com (Kevin T. Miller) writes:	 > Hello.   > ? > Would a Control-P ever cause major file corruption to disks?  F > Is it ever a good idea to perform a control-P when the machine is upD > and running? Would this cause disk controllers to go bad also? Any& > help greatly appreciated. Thank you.  A    Control-P does different things on different systems.  On many ?    systems today it halts the processor.  If you don't continue F    the processor and do a clean shutdown your file system's free blockG    count will be stale.  If you do this on a system running a DBMS such (    as Oracle you can hose the data base.   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jan 2003 10:50:00 -0800' From: liammason@eircom.net (Liam Mason) " Subject: DBI::Proxyserver DBD::Rdb= Message-ID: <12cf2a0d.0301151050.51a3b155@posting.google.com>   E OpenVMS V7.2-2, Perl v5.6.1 built for VMS_AXP. I am trying to connect  a Solaris client to Oracle Rdb.   F After many hours of heartache, I finally managed to get the connection working.  0 Wed Jan 15 18:04:11 2003 debug, Accepting clientA Wed Jan 15 18:04:12 2003 debug, Client executes method CallMethod . Wed Jan 15 18:04:12 2003 debug, CallMethod: =>! DBI::ProxyServer::db=HASH(0x18c19  60),STORE,AutoCommit,00 Wed Jan 15 18:04:12 2003 debug, CallMethod: <= 1A Wed Jan 15 18:04:12 2003 debug, Client executes method CallMethod . Wed Jan 15 18:04:12 2003 debug, CallMethod: =>! DBI::ProxyServer::db=HASH(0x18c19  60),STORE,ChopBlanks,10 Wed Jan 15 18:04:12 2003 debug, CallMethod: <= 1A Wed Jan 15 18:04:13 2003 debug, Client executes method CallMethod . Wed Jan 15 18:04:13 2003 debug, CallMethod: =>! DBI::ProxyServer::db=HASH(0x18c19  60),FETCH,rdb_dateformat. Wed Jan 15 18:04:13 2003 debug, CallMethod: <= |!Y4!MN0!D0|!H04!M0!S0!C2|A Wed Jan 15 18:04:13 2003 debug, Client executes method CallMethod . Wed Jan 15 18:04:13 2003 debug, CallMethod: =>! DBI::ProxyServer::db=HASH(0x18c19  60),FETCH,ChopBlanks0 Wed Jan 15 18:04:13 2003 debug, CallMethod: <= 1A Wed Jan 15 18:04:14 2003 debug, Client executes method CallMethod . Wed Jan 15 18:04:14 2003 debug, CallMethod: =>! DBI::ProxyServer::db=HASH(0x18c19 7 60),prepare,set transaction read only,,ARRAY(0x18c1a50) @ Wed Jan 15 18:04:14 2003 err, Can't call method "StoreHandle" on unblessed refer = ence at /perl_root/lib/site_perl/DBI/ProxyServer.pm line 258.   .  I get the same message on select statements -   Any ideas.?    ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jan 2003 04:40:27 -0800  From: otto@programmer.net (Otto)7 Subject: Getting started with an AlphaStation 200 4/233 = Message-ID: <c0b935a5.0301150440.2d24c225@posting.google.com>   A I have a DEC AlphaStation 200 4/233 bought on eBay, but it's only F running Linux at the moment. I want to install OpenVMS, but I'm really$ not sure what I need to get started.  5 1. The machine came without any OpenVMS licenses. :-( @ Will the "OpenVMS hobbyist kit" make this machine usable (login,C compile, network, DECwin, etc)? Or do I need additional (expensive)  licenses from HP?   F 2. And can I use the hobbyist license with commercial distribution? Or= does this license only work with the CDs in the hobbyist kit?   C 3. If I want to use the machine for commercial purposes I guess the F hobbyist kit is not for me. Then I probably need licenses from HP. AnyB with exact knowledge what I need? I've think I've seen that need aF Base License, a User license, a NAS-150 license, and the media kit....   Thanks!    //Otto   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 13:48:28 +0100 1 From: SAP Trainee <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr> ; Subject: Re: Getting started with an AlphaStation 200 4/233 & Message-ID: <3E25589C.9070907@Free.fr>  
 Otto a crit: C > I have a DEC AlphaStation 200 4/233 bought on eBay, but it's only H > running Linux at the moment. I want to install OpenVMS, but I'm really& > not sure what I need to get started.  F Boot the CD, go back to www.montagar.com and get the layered products  "licences".   7 > 1. The machine came without any OpenVMS licenses. :-( B > Will the "OpenVMS hobbyist kit" make this machine usable (login," > compile, network, DECwin, etc)?   
 Yes, it will.   7 > Or do I need additional (expensive) licenses from HP?    No, you don't.  E > 2. And can I use the hobbyist license with commercial distribution?   @ No, you cannot (but, really, who will care for a dying product?)  B > Or does this license only work with the CDs in the hobbyist kit?  
 Yes, it does.   E > 3. If I want to use the machine for commercial purposes I guess the H > hobbyist kit is not for me. Then I probably need licenses from HP. AnyD > with exact knowledge what I need? I've think I've seen that need aH > Base License, a User license, a NAS-150 license, and the media kit....  @ You want to use a PWS 4/233 for commercial purposes? Which ones? (just curious)   D.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 13:12:20 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr"); Subject: Re: Getting started with an AlphaStation 200 4/233 6 Message-ID: <00A19FDD.24C76C51@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  ` In article <c0b935a5.0301150440.2d24c225@posting.google.com>, otto@programmer.net (Otto) writes:  B >I have a DEC AlphaStation 200 4/233 bought on eBay, but it's onlyG >running Linux at the moment. I want to install OpenVMS, but I'm really % >not sure what I need to get started.  > 6 >1. The machine came without any OpenVMS licenses. :-(A >Will the "OpenVMS hobbyist kit" make this machine usable (login, D >compile, network, DECwin, etc)? Or do I need additional (expensive) >licenses from HP?  4 The hobbyist license will cover all that good stuff.   > G >2. And can I use the hobbyist license with commercial distribution? Or > >does this license only work with the CDs in the hobbyist kit?  K Works with commercial distributions (or at least those introduced since the L hobbyist license was, which I think is 7.2 and up).  You can borrow a set of6 commercial CDs and use them with the hobbyist license.   > D >3. If I want to use the machine for commercial purposes I guess the >hobbyist kit is not for me.     Right.  + >Then I probably need licenses from HP. Any C >with exact knowledge what I need? I've think I've seen that need a G >Base License, a User license, a NAS-150 license, and the media kit....   O But if you plan to develop software for sale (eg, be an ISV), there's a program = that is supposed to make that stuff available pretty cheaply.   E If you have to pay full list price, you're may find yourself spending H less money leaving the AlphaStation running Linux and buying a DS10 with2 licenses included and a year of hardware warranty.   -- Alan   O =============================================================================== 0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056 M  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025 O ===============================================================================    ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jan 2003 14:25:39 -00004 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]>; Subject: Re: Getting started with an AlphaStation 200 4/233 6 Message-ID: <20030115142539.25099.qmail@gacracker.org>  G On Wed, 15 Jan 2003, SAP Trainee <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr> wrote:  >Otto a crit:D >> I have a DEC AlphaStation 200 4/233 bought on eBay, but it's onlyI >> running Linux at the moment. I want to install OpenVMS, but I'm really ' >> not sure what I need to get started.    <snip>  F >> 2. And can I use the hobbyist license with commercial distribution? > A >No, you cannot (but, really, who will care for a dying product?)   G Yes you can. That has been posted here several times by VMS Engineering  staff.  C >> Or does this license only work with the CDs in the hobbyist kit?  >  >Yes, it does.  E And probably with any other version of VMS you can get for the Alpha.   G Many of the licenses included in the Hobbyist set are for software kits K that are not available unless you can borrow a copy of the Software Product K Library. Old versions of this sometimes pop up on Ebay, but finding someone = fairly local that you can borrow them off is probably easier.      Doc. --  : Time and money, the psychotropics of the business world...K ~ VAXman                                             https://vmsbox.cjb.net    ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 13:20:37 +0000 (UTC) + From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb) ; Subject: Re: Getting started with an AlphaStation 200 4/233 + Message-ID: <b03n75$6lf$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>   Z In article <3E25589C.9070907@Free.fr>, SAP Trainee <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr> writes: >Otto a crit:D >> I have a DEC AlphaStation 200 4/233 bought on eBay, but it's onlyI >> running Linux at the moment. I want to install OpenVMS, but I'm really ' >> not sure what I need to get started.  > G >Boot the CD, go back to www.montagar.com and get the layered products   >"licences". > 8 >> 1. The machine came without any OpenVMS licenses. :-(C >> Will the "OpenVMS hobbyist kit" make this machine usable (login, # >> compile, network, DECwin, etc)?   >  >Yes, it will. > 8 >> Or do I need additional (expensive) licenses from HP? >  >No, you don't.  > F >> 2. And can I use the hobbyist license with commercial distribution? > A >No, you cannot (but, really, who will care for a dying product?)  >   K Yes you can. VMS is VMS is VMS. There is no "hobbyist" version of VMS it is ) just a particular CD distribution of VMS. N There have been many recomendations on this newsgroup from Compaq/HP employeesM for hobbyists to borrow "commercial distributions" from friends who work with N VMS if there has been a holdup in getting the hobbyist distribution or if theyM wanted a layered product which wasn't put on the hobbyist CD because of space 2 rsstrictions but for which a license was provided.    C >> Or does this license only work with the CDs in the hobbyist kit?  >  >Yes, it does. > P No the licenses should work with any VMS distribution you can get your hands on.  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University    F >> 3. If I want to use the machine for commercial purposes I guess theI >> hobbyist kit is not for me. Then I probably need licenses from HP. Any E >> with exact knowledge what I need? I've think I've seen that need a I >> Base License, a User license, a NAS-150 license, and the media kit....  > A >You want to use a PWS 4/233 for commercial purposes? Which ones?  >(just curious)  >  >D.  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 18:29:01 +0100 1 From: SAP Trainee <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr> ; Subject: Re: Getting started with an AlphaStation 200 4/233 & Message-ID: <3E259A5D.3090209@Free.fr>   David Webb a crit:   F >>>2. And can I use the hobbyist license with commercial distribution? >>B >>No, you cannot (but, really, who will care for a dying product?) >>M > Yes you can. VMS is VMS is VMS. There is no "hobbyist" version of VMS it is + > just a particular CD distribution of VMS. P > There have been many recomendations on this newsgroup from Compaq/HP employeesO > for hobbyists to borrow "commercial distributions" from friends who work with P > VMS if there has been a holdup in getting the hobbyist distribution or if theyO > wanted a layered product which wasn't put on the hobbyist CD because of space 4 > rsstrictions but for which a license was provided.  D Sorry. I was not clear. I should have written "you may not, but you G can". The OpenVMS Hobbyist licence expressively (sp?) mention that you  I are not allowed to use another VMS version than the one available on the   Hobbyist CD.  C >>>Or does this license only work with the CDs in the hobbyist kit?  >> >>Yes, it does.  >>R > No the licenses should work with any VMS distribution you can get your hands on.  H I was again talking about the VMS licence. For the Layered Products, he F should register his system on the Montagar site to get valid "normal" @ licences PAK to use "normal" software from the Software Library.   D.   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 18:06:20 +0000 (UTC) + From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb) ; Subject: Re: Getting started with an AlphaStation 200 4/233 + Message-ID: <b047us$c9b$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>   Z In article <3E259A5D.3090209@Free.fr>, SAP Trainee <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr> writes: >David Webb a crit: > G >>>>2. And can I use the hobbyist license with commercial distribution?  >>> C >>>No, you cannot (but, really, who will care for a dying product?)  >>> N >> Yes you can. VMS is VMS is VMS. There is no "hobbyist" version of VMS it is, >> just a particular CD distribution of VMS.Q >> There have been many recomendations on this newsgroup from Compaq/HP employees P >> for hobbyists to borrow "commercial distributions" from friends who work withQ >> VMS if there has been a holdup in getting the hobbyist distribution or if they P >> wanted a layered product which wasn't put on the hobbyist CD because of space5 >> rsstrictions but for which a license was provided.  > E >Sorry. I was not clear. I should have written "you may not, but you  H >can". The OpenVMS Hobbyist licence expressively (sp?) mention that you J >are not allowed to use another VMS version than the one available on the 
 >Hobbyist CD.  > J I've never used a system under the hobbyist license however looking at the6 Montagar site I can't see anything remotely like that.9 It certainly isn't in the COMPAQ HOBBY License agreement   see   9 http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/terms_and_conditions.txt    or  6 http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/register_license.html  - In fact the site explicitly tells you that :-    " N At this time, OpenVMS Vax media kits are sold out. If you are still interestedI in getting OpenVMS for your VAX,you may try borrowing a CD from a friend, 6 co-worker, local Encompass LUG, Ebay, or other places.K Please note that any OpenVMS distribution is legal to use with the Hobbyist ' Program (as long as it's not stolen!)."    See   + http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/mount.html     
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University    D >>>>Or does this license only work with the CDs in the hobbyist kit? >>>  >>>Yes, it does. >>> S >> No the licenses should work with any VMS distribution you can get your hands on.  > I >I was again talking about the VMS licence. For the Layered Products, he  G >should register his system on the Montagar site to get valid "normal"  A >licences PAK to use "normal" software from the Software Library.  >  >D.  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 10:34:12 +0000 ' From: Martyn <mpattWINDOZE@bigfoot.com> . Subject: Re: Going totally crazy - please help* Message-ID: <3E253924.6060704@bigfoot.com>   Joseph Norris wrote: > Norm,  > G > That's a good idea to actually put the dcl in the email. Sorry to all F > for not thinking of this. I am at a remote site and I will drop this > into an email tonight. > B > I am doing the define/user sys$input sys$command before the run. > " > I will give the set noon a shot. > ; > Thanks again to all  and to you Norm for the observation.  > = > #Joseph Norris (Perl - what else is there?/Linux/CGI/Mysql) K > print @c=map chr $_+100,(6,17,15,16,-68,-3,10,11,16,4,1,14,-68,12,1,14,8, E > -68,4,-3,-1,7,1,14,-68,-26,11,15,1,12,4,-68,-22,11,14,14,5,15,-90);  >  > 3 > On Tue, 14 Jan 2003 norm.raphael@metso.com wrote:  >  > 	 >>Joseph,  >>D >>Are you getting input to the interactive program from the terminal >>or the command procedure?  >> >>If you are using% >>$ DEFINE/USER SYS$INPUT SYS$COMMAND  >>or >>$ DECK >>$ EOD @ >>in some way (or should be and are not) complications may cause5 >>the $LOGOUT to be treated as input to your program. = >>That's why someone earlier suggested you post an example of 
 >>the DCL. >> >>-Norm  >>E >>From:  Joseph Norris <jozefn@bolt.sonic.net> on 01/14/2003 02:34 PM  >>9 >>Please respond to Joseph Norris <jozefn@bolt.sonic.net>  >> >>To:    Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >>cc:  >>3 >>Subject:    Re: Going totally crazy - please help  >> >> >>	 >>Martyn,  >>> >>I did this and I see everything up until the point of run of= >>the interactive program. I also checked $ LOGOUT by putting ; >>it into its on dcl and then running it - it logged me out  >>of the system. >> >>6 >>BTW - like the idea of your sig - remove Windoze and, >>Speak to the Penguin, he is your friend. -) >>been doing that for quite some time :>)  >> >> >> >> >>= >>#Joseph Norris (Perl - what else is there?/Linux/CGI/Mysql) K >>print @c=map chr $_+100,(6,17,15,16,-68,-3,10,11,16,4,1,14,-68,12,1,14,8, E >>-68,4,-3,-1,7,1,14,-68,-26,11,15,1,12,4,-68,-22,11,14,14,5,15,-90);  >> >>$ >>On Tue, 14 Jan 2003, Martyn wrote: >> >> >>>Joseph Norris wrote:  >>> C >>>>I have a dcl file that runs a simple interactive cobol program. / >>>>The last line of the dcl file says $ LOGOUT  >>>>C >>>>Which is exactly what I want the process to do - allow the user F >>>>to use this dcl file to run the interactive program and after they+ >>>>exit the program the dcl logs them off.  >>>>K >>>>However - it appears that the OS does not see the "$ LOGOUT" and leaves  >>>>them with a prompt.  >>>>/ >>>>Any and all help would be most appreciated.  >>>> >>>>Thanks.  >>>> >>>>? >>>>#Joseph Norris (Perl - what else is there?/Linux/CGI/Mysql) ? >>>>print @c=map chr $_+100,(6,17,15,16,-68,-3,10,11,16,4,1,14,  >>>  >>-68,12,1,14,8, >>G >>>>-68,4,-3,-1,7,1,14,-68,-26,11,15,1,12,4,-68,-22,11,14,14,5,15,-90);  >>>> >>>> >>> J >>>We're gonna need to see the procedure, chances are you're never gettingJ >>>to the last line, you could be exiting (by choice or by error handling) >>>anywhere in the procedure.  >>>  >>>You could try putting a >>>  >>>$SET VERIFY >>> J >>>line up at the start of the procedure, and you'll then see each line ofG >>>the procedure as it is executed this should let you see which is the J >>>last line that being processed and you might figure out from that where >>>it's going wrong. >>> H >>>Another posibillity is that LOGOUT has been defined as a symbol to do >>>something else/nothing. >>>  >>>-- + >>>Speak to the Penguin, he is your friend.  >>> * >>>Remove WINDOZE before replying by Email >>>  >>>  >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >   G The $SET NOON basically tells the DCL procedure to carry on regardless  I of any errors, if there is any processing in the DCL procedure following  D the cobol program (e.g. posting the resultant output) and the cobol I program is failing then you might not want to do the post processing. If  H the SET NOON works then you might want to investigate putting in proper  error handling.        --  ( Speak to the Penguin, he is your friend.  ' Remove WINDOZE before replying by Emailc   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 08:59:07 -0500a' From: Chris Olive <nospam@raytheon.com>1. Subject: Re: Going totally crazy - please help> Message-ID: <uPdV9.286$Z74.1079@dfw-service2.ext.raytheon.com>   Joseph Norris wrote:A > I have a dcl file that runs a simple interactive cobol program. - > The last line of the dcl file says $ LOGOUTr > A > Which is exactly what I want the process to do - allow the useraD > to use this dcl file to run the interactive program and after they) > exit the program the dcl logs them off.o > I > However - it appears that the OS does not see the "$ LOGOUT" and leavesK > them with a prompt.  > - > Any and all help would be most appreciated.c > 	 > Thanks.  >   I Well, aside from all the input you've received thus far regarding making aG the account CAPTIVE (which could be the right way to go, depending), a iF lesser known command for logging out is the command "EOJ"  Very, very G few sites redefine EOJ, though some like to redefine LOGOUT.  EOJ is a uG leftover command from pre-1980's card processing days which means "End n Of Job."  E If I were you, I'd want to know WHY "LOGOUT" wasn't working before I .G tried setting the account to CAPTIVE (if that's what you decide.)  One cG always learns quite a lot, esp. about something new, when you take the  G time to find out WHY...  Because it sounds like you may not be getting o< to the LOGOUT command in which case EOJ isn't going to help.  H If you DON'T make the account CAPTIVE, try logging to the account using G the /NOCOM qualifier and have a look around (symbols, etc.) and see if  G you can spot anything.  Could be something that SYS$SYLOGIN is setting aE up.  Could be your program, as someone else suggested.  Hard to know p without seeing more specifics.   Logging in using /NOCOM: -----4 Welcome to VMS   Username: JDOE/NOCOM	 Password:e$ 		Welcome to VMS... blah, blah, blah -----C   > = > #Joseph Norris (Perl - what else is there?/Linux/CGI/Mysql)eK > print @c=map chr $_+100,(6,17,15,16,-68,-3,10,11,16,4,1,14,-68,12,1,14,8,oE > -68,4,-3,-1,7,1,14,-68,-26,11,15,1,12,4,-68,-22,11,14,14,5,15,-90);n >   E Perl...  My stand-in replacement for DCL when I had to leave VMS for aC several years in lieu of Unix.  Perl has put a lot of bread on the aH table.  Still is.  Cool.  (Still can't bring myself to use it under VMS 	 however.)e   Chrise -----n Chris Oliver Systems Consultant' Raytheon Technical Services Corporation  Indianapolis, IN  * email: olivec AT indy DOT raytheon DOT com   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jan 2003 10:02:06 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)-. Subject: Re: Going totally crazy - please help3 Message-ID: <G1CQYmnQljLD@eisner.encompasserve.org>0  s In article <Pine.LNX.4.40.0301141116050.31612-100000@bolt.sonic.net>, Joseph Norris <jozefn@bolt.sonic.net> writes:o > A > I have a dcl file that runs a simple interactive cobol program.l- > The last line of the dcl file says $ LOGOUTe > A > Which is exactly what I want the process to do - allow the useroD > to use this dcl file to run the interactive program and after they) > exit the program the dcl logs them off.e > I > However - it appears that the OS does not see the "$ LOGOUT" and leaves  > them with a prompt.  > - > Any and all help would be most appreciated.  >   B    It's possible that someone has defined a symbol for logout thatH    doens't logout.  You can test for this with f$type() and delete it ifG    it exists, or you can use a longer string starting with logout, sucho    as logoutnow.  ?    It's also possible that the program is exiting with an error B    condition and the DCL isn't trapping that.  An untrapped error A    condition can cause the DCL file to be aborted.  See "help on"0&    for trapping on various conditions.  H    If the DCL file is the user's login.com (or whatever the SYSUAF fieldG    for LGICMD is), you can set the account to be captive, then VMS will-B    log them out no matter how the program and command file exists.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 10:54:57 -0500O! From: VAXVMS <bounce@notmail.com>@  Subject: Gold Key cards and DHCPK Message-ID: <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E4903027BBA@rlghncst964.usps.gov>i  3 We have HP LaserJets here and there which are usingm  Gold Key cards to emulate LN03s.  6 What are the magic incantations required to make these6 cards NOT acquire a dynamic gateway (routing) address  from a DCHP server?   8 The person working with this keeps setting it to a fixed1 gateway but it gets reset with each power cycle. X  8 The limited Gold Key documentation that we have doesn't  address this issue..   Thanks in advance, ========================  William W. Webb / DSSC/RLM, USPS OpenVMS Support Services& 4924 Green Road Raleigh, NC 27616-2800: 919.874.3043 <FirstInitialDotLastNameAtEmailDotUSPSDotGov>   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 12:46:03 -0500 < From: "John E. Malmberg" <Malmberg@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq.hp>$ Subject: Re: Gold Key cards and DHCP. Message-ID: <w7hV9.40$DT3.33@news.cpqcorp.net>  
 VAXVMS wrote:M5 > We have HP LaserJets here and there which are using " > Gold Key cards to emulate LN03s. > 8 > What are the magic incantations required to make these8 > cards NOT acquire a dynamic gateway (routing) address  > from a DCHP server?f  F Can you see if the DHCP server(s) can send specific parameters to the  MAC addresses of the printer?t  G Or force the DHCP server(s) to give out addresses for the printers MAC  / addresses that have been blocked at the router?    -Johne! Malmberg@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq.hp  Personal Opinion Onlyg   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 14:39:44 +0100e= From: "Franz-Jrgen Tollmann" <tollmann@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de> 9 Subject: How to make a harddisk accessible via NFS on VMSo' Message-ID: <3e2564ab@uni-wuerzburg.de>4  J We want to make a harddisc on a alpha which runs VMS accessible to Windows and Linux clients by NFS.S Is this complicated?K Is there an instruction with a detailed discription how to make a device oro directory accessible via VMS.T  
 Cheers, Franz-   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jan 2003 15:02:59 +0100' From: huber@mppmu.mpg.de (Joseph Huber)c= Subject: Re: How to make a harddisk accessible via NFS on VMS.+ Message-ID: <iRwvDbghUbG$@vms.mppmu.mpg.de>g  g In article <3e2564ab@uni-wuerzburg.de>, "Franz-Jrgen Tollmann" <tollmann@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de> writes:dL > We want to make a harddisc on a alpha which runs VMS accessible to Windows > and Linux clients by NFS.i > Is this complicated?M > Is there an instruction with a detailed discription how to make a device orp > directory accessible via VMS.o  , It depends on the TCPIP stack of the system., With "TCPIP services for VMS"  (former UCX):A   use SYS$COMMON:[SYSMGR]TCPIP$CONFIG.COM to configure NFS server =   use TCPIP HELP to read about the MAP and ADD EXPORT commandX,   use TCPIP ADD PROXY  to add userid mapping  K The documentation for TCPIP is on the VMS documentation CD ROMs (and the HPo OpenVMS web site).    -- nN Joseph "Sepp" Huber   mailto:joseph.huber@web.de   http://www.huber-joseph.de/   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 14:02:02 -0000t* From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>= Subject: Re: How to make a harddisk accessible via NFS on VMSt, Message-ID: <b03pkq$19jq@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>  H "Franz-Jrgen Tollmann" <tollmann@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de> wrote in message! news:3e2564ab@uni-wuerzburg.de...   L > We want to make a harddisc on a alpha which runs VMS accessible to Windows0 > and Linux clients by NFS. Is this complicated?  5 Somewhat. Much the same as setting up a Samba server.I  M > Is there an instruction with a detailed discription how to make a device ort > directory accessible via VMS.n  M You need to determine what, if any, TCP/IP package is installed. If it is HPst2 (TCP/IP services, aka UCX) the manuals are online:  P  http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc/73final/6526/6526pro_036.html#nfs_server_chap  O Having a browse through that should get you started. That's the latest version.o? Doing a UCX SHOW VERSION may tell you which you have installed.oP OS version, and often your IP stack version is often helpful answering questions
 like these...t   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jan 2003 10:10:37 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)m= Subject: Re: How to make a harddisk accessible via NFS on VMSd3 Message-ID: <qvB9ZD+xH3iZ@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  g In article <3e2564ab@uni-wuerzburg.de>, "Franz-Jrgen Tollmann" <tollmann@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de> writes:-L > We want to make a harddisc on a alpha which runs VMS accessible to Windows > and Linux clients by NFS.- > Is this complicated?      No.  M > Is there an instruction with a detailed discription how to make a device orn > directory accessible via VMS.s  F    Choose 1 of DECnet, NFS, or Pathworks.  The follow the installationD    instructions.  THere's no market for a "Dummies" book because the    instrucitons are that good.   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jan 2003 06:56:54 -0800+ From: Pierre.Bru@spotimage.fr (Bru, Pierre)S9 Subject: incomprehensible mountVerifyTimeout in a clustero= Message-ID: <a39f53b1.0301150656.43ec4649@posting.google.com>i   hello,  . I have 3 alpha in a cluster (let say A, B & C)3 A mount disks of B and C. sometimes, these disks goe mountverifytimeout.-  F as MVTIMEOUT=3600 and RECNXINTERVAL=120 on the 3 alpha, I do not thinkE the problem is a networks pb as none of the alphas exist the cluster.3  C what if not a network pb can make the disks go mountVerifyTimeout ?    TIA, Pierre.r   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 15:34:10 +0000 (UTC)f, From: lewis@PROBE.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)= Subject: Re: incomprehensible mountVerifyTimeout in a clusteru. Message-ID: <b03v1i$rp9$2@newslocal.mitre.org>   Pierre.Bru@spotimage.fr (Bru, Pierre) writes in article <a39f53b1.0301150656.43ec4649@posting.google.com> dated 15 Jan 2003 06:56:54 -0800:  >hello,i >b/ >I have 3 alpha in a cluster (let say A, B & C)u4 >A mount disks of B and C. sometimes, these disks go >mountverifytimeout. >0G >as MVTIMEOUT=3600 and RECNXINTERVAL=120 on the 3 alpha, I do not think F >the problem is a networks pb as none of the alphas exist the cluster. >.D >what if not a network pb can make the disks go mountVerifyTimeout ?  J If things are working well, they shouldn't even go into "mountVerify", andL according to that parameter they have to be that way for 1 hour before goingI to "mountVerifyTimeout".  If you "REPLY/ENABLE" you will be notified whene disks change status.    0 A disk hardware problem can cause mountverify.    + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.orgd> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------   Date: 15 Jan 2003 08:22:34 GMT( From: nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren), Subject: Re: Marvel talks at The Inquirer...0 Message-ID: <b035oa$qu8$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>  . In article <3E23FD2E.9070302@nospamn.sun.com>,R Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy  <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: |> c< |> The Sun 3 range were 68010/68020 and 68030 based systems.0 |> The Sun 4 range were the SPARC based systems. |>  8 |> The Sun 3 and Sun 4 range overlapped with 68030 based4 |> systems coming out at the same time as the second+ |> generation of Sun 4 SPARC based systems.  |>  4 |> The SPARCstation 1 used the same packaging as the |> 68030 based 3/80o  : Aargh!  Thanks.  Yes, I keep confusing those damn numbers.  > For reasons I can't remember, it was quite hard to get hold of> the 3/80 - Sun were definitely pushing the SPARCstation 1, and( there were quite a lot of unhappy users.     Regards, Nick Maclaren,* University of Cambridge Computing Service,> New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QH, England. Email:  nmm1@cam.ac.uk/ Tel.:  +44 1223 334761    Fax:  +44 1223 334679?   ------------------------------   Date: 15 Jan 2003 08:30:28 GMT( From: nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren), Subject: Re: Marvel talks at The Inquirer...0 Message-ID: <b03674$rc0$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>  5 In article <b01emd$kiaud$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>, * bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:3 |> In article <b00ll4$llk$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>,-. |> 	nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren) writes: |> >  G |> > As servers, the software was usually pretty dire but, for example,bF |> > HP-UX 7 was good enough to use for that purpose.  I wouldn't haveB |> > wanted to use any Sun system of that era for a server, though" |> > dozens of academic sites did. |> 9F |> I had HP-UX, Sun3's and Sparcs all runing simultaneously here and ID |> can assure you my experience was quite different than yours.  TheE |> worst performer was the HP and I was glad to finally dump it.  The-G |> Suns lasted a while longer and, surprisingly, the only ones still in(F |> regular use are the Sun3's.  Two servers and 3 workstations runningJ |> strictly as X-terminals for those servers.  The engineering applicationJ |> they run was never ported anywhere else, and other than maintenance the= |> Sun3's are more than adequate for this single application.t  E Hang on.  I was referring to the software.  HP-UX 6.5 to 9 installed, B tolerably securely, out of the box.  Very little configuration wasE essential.  The compilers were more-or-less conforming.  The softwareBD reliability as desktops was excellent.  None of those statements wasB true until Solaris 2, and everything before SunOS 4.1 was ghastly.  D A lot of people who used them as primary development systems did notB have trouble, but this was often because they wrote the gruesomely@ non-standard code that was supported by SunOS.  It was nearly asC bad as Ultrix in that respect!  I wrote and imported portable code,cC and I mean not just Unix codes, and Ultrix and SunOS needed over 10.% times as much bug-bypassing as HP-UX.o  $ Similar remarks applied to security.       Regards, Nick Maclaren,* University of Cambridge Computing Service,> New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QH, England. Email:  nmm1@cam.ac.uk/ Tel.:  +44 1223 334761    Fax:  +44 1223 334679c   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 10:12:43 +00005' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy@, Subject: Re: Marvel talks at The Inquirer..., Message-ID: <3E25341B.20708@nospamn.sun.com>   Nick Maclaren wrote:0 > In article <3E23FD2E.9070302@nospamn.sun.com>,T > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy  <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: > |> r> > |> The Sun 3 range were 68010/68020 and 68030 based systems.2 > |> The Sun 4 range were the SPARC based systems. > |> :: > |> The Sun 3 and Sun 4 range overlapped with 68030 based6 > |> systems coming out at the same time as the second- > |> generation of Sun 4 SPARC based systems.e > |> 56 > |> The SPARCstation 1 used the same packaging as the > |> 68030 based 3/80e > < > Aargh!  Thanks.  Yes, I keep confusing those damn numbers. > @ > For reasons I can't remember, it was quite hard to get hold of@ > the 3/80 - Sun were definitely pushing the SPARCstation 1, and* > there were quite a lot of unhappy users. >   8 We couldn't build enough 3/80's so they were intially on: long lead times, if I remember correctly demand was higher than we expected.d  8 The SPARCstation 1 was a faster system, and for the time: it had very fast integrated graphics using the GX graphics8 accelerator. Sun thought that the majority of the demand7 would be for the SS1, we underestimated the issues that17 people had moving their applications to a new platform.   6 Some similarities then with the current Itanium demand issues.    Regards  Andrew HarrisonB   ------------------------------   Date: 15 Jan 2003 11:13:54 GMT( From: nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren), Subject: Re: Marvel talks at The Inquirer...0 Message-ID: <b03fpi$671$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>  , In article <3E25341B.20708@nospamn.sun.com>,R Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy  <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: |> a; |> We couldn't build enough 3/80's so they were intially ont= |> long lead times, if I remember correctly demand was highere |> than we expected.   Could well be.  ; |> The SPARCstation 1 was a faster system, and for the timeg= |> it had very fast integrated graphics using the GX graphics ; |> accelerator. Sun thought that the majority of the demande: |> would be for the SS1, we underestimated the issues that: |> people had moving their applications to a new platform.  > That was true, but it was NOT true that it was faster.  It was? faster only on some workloads, and a LOT slower on many others.b? The experience of our users was that it was usually slower.  As A with most of the early RISCs, there were a lot of 'rare' features A that went like a drain.  Well, if you happened to use one of themo< quite heavily, the performance was dire.  If I recall, these	 included:e  =     Integer multiply, which made matrix codes not amenable tos! strength reduction horribly slow.t  ;     TLB limitations, which hit programs that accessed store- semi-randomly.  ;     Codes that did not optimise well, or had to be compiledo/ without to make them 'work' - e.g. much of X11.t  9 |> Some similarities then with the current Itanium demand0
 |> issues.  @ Heck, no.  There were some real customers of the SPARCstation 1, here and elsewhere.   3 But the performance problems were very similar ....S  @ Interestingly, I didn't see the same problems with the MicroVAX,> where my impression is that the instruction reduction was done more pragmatically.T     Regards, Nick Maclaren,* University of Cambridge Computing Service,> New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QH, England. Email:  nmm1@cam.ac.uk/ Tel.:  +44 1223 334761    Fax:  +44 1223 334679e   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jan 2003 10:08:12 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)(, Subject: Re: Marvel talks at The Inquirer...3 Message-ID: <ktKIDMC21w0u@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  [ In article <b03674$rc0$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>, nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren) writes:e  G > Hang on.  I was referring to the software.  HP-UX 6.5 to 9 installed, & > tolerably securely, out of the box.   H    I worked with HP-UX 7 through 10.  Out of the box the shadow password<    file was disabled and /usr/local/... was world writeable.  )    Hardly what I'd tolerate for security.?   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 07:11:04 GMT - From: bdc@world.std.com (Brian 'Jarai' Chase).$ Subject: Re: Microvax Floating point& Message-ID: <H8quMG.DEJ@world.std.com>  O In article <3E2307D8.6030204@vajhoej.dk>, Arne Vajhj  <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:F > Brian 'Jarai' Chase wrote:R > > In article <3E214480.2020206@vajhoej.dk>, Arne Vajhj <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:  > > > Brian 'Jarai' Chase wrote:  H > > > > The most sensible option, IMO, for supporting IEEE FP on the VAXJ > > > > would be to create a software library against which apps requiring" > > > > IEEE FP could be compiled. > > >n
 > > > ???? > > > @ > > > And write a compiler that generate calls to that library ? > >wK > > The apps in question would have to be linked against the library, using . > > the IEEE compatible functions it provides. > = > The problem is that there are no library calls - it is justd > instructions.  > A > To replace those instructions with library calls will require a  > new compiler.i  I Ah.  I'm not suggesting that the instructions be replaced.  For one, it'shJ impossible to replace the microcoded instructions on any but the oldest ofE the VAXen.  And though it's possible that one /could/ trap say... theeF MACRO coded H_float instructions and reserved opcodes, bending them toI one's will, that would require modifying the operating system in additiongD to the compilers.  Also, I'm not familiar enough with VMS to know ifF that's even possible for end users.  It would be possible on something< like NetBSD/vax since the the full source code is available.  D And even given the above, you'd still have to implement some sort ofG library function to translate persistent VAX FP formated data into IEEEsG format data.  For example, lets say you've got FP values stored in someeH file.  If they're VAX FP formatted values, you'll have to translate themD to IEEE before your new instructions can work on them.  Much, as I'dG imagine, people have had to translate IEEE formated FP values to VAX FPl& format to process them on their VAXen.  D My suggestion would be to not even attempt to replace or augment theJ native VAX opcodes.  Leave the machine language completely alone; instead,J build a nice math library that operates on IEEE FP formatted data, and useJ its functions in your applications where IEEE FP manipulation is needed.  J It'll be slow, but at least it won't break everything else that depends on VAX FP.1   -brian.. -- @F --- Brian Chase | bdc@world.std.com | http://world.std.com/~bdc/ -----F     "Science explains the world, but only art can reconcile us to it."=            -- The oldest sage, "King Globares and the Sages".t   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jan 2003 09:42:29 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)t$ Subject: Re: Microvax Floating point3 Message-ID: <9GJgEzYuHoLy@eisner.encompasserve.org>   K In article <3E245723.BB387A54@vcu.edu>, Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu> writes:M@ > I only know from said experience that the CRC-32??? polynomialH > instruction is done in microcode on the Microvax 3900, and in firmware' > (faster) on a vaxstation 3100model38,AH > making the vaxstation the faster vms backup machine...  details may be. > wrong, but that's what was explained to us..  A    Depending on the tape drive, CRC may already be built into the B    low level data recording.  I use /nocrc on all except 9-tracks.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 11:11:11 +0300 2 From: Mike Rechtman <michael.rechtman@digital.com>7 Subject: Re: Most common OpenVMS versions in use today?o+ Message-ID: <3E2541CE.2523F8A5@digital.com>    Dave Weatherall wrote: > E > On Mon, 13 Jan 2003 10:26:17 UTC, otto@programmer.net (Otto) wrote:: > 
 > > Hello! > >w@ > > Could anybody please tell us which OpenVMS versions that are3 > > commonly used in production environments today?S > > Both VAX and Alpha?i > > OpenVMS 5.x, 6.x, 7.x. > >  > > Thanks in advance. > >S
 > > //Otto > A > We dropped 5.5.4 as a supported environment only last year. Oura             ^^^^^^^,  @ Do you mean 5.5-2? Or 5.5-1H4 (_Not_ recommended at this stage.)B Current favoured stopping-points seem to be 5.5-2, 6.2 and 7.2 for VAXen, 6.2 and 7.2-2 for Alphas.n  : ... He says, writing fro a VAXstation 4000-90, at V6.2 ...   Mike.     G > Cluster, Vax and Alpha, is at VMS 6.2 and ready to move forward to at 7 > 7.2 via 7.1, which should join the cluster this week.s > E > 6.2 is our lowest common denominator still but not for much longer.o >  > -- > Cheers - Dave.   -- rE ---------------------------------------------------------------------rE Usual disclaimer: All opinions are mine alone, perhaps not even that.v? Mike Rechtman                            *rechtman@tzora.co.il* F Kibbutz Tzor'a.                          Voice (home): 972-2-9908337  B   "20% of a job takes 80% of the time, the rest takes another 80%"E ---------------------------------------------------------------------i   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jan 2003 09:46:15 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)i7 Subject: Re: Most common OpenVMS versions in use today?n3 Message-ID: <iB6tRyppgHwW@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <3E24A372.E7FED3E2@aaa.com>, Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> writes:  > 5 > I still claim, VMS *might* have been a "desktop" OS < > some time ago, it's not now, and it will never be (again).  6    That's funny, then why am I using it on my desktop?   ------------------------------   Date: 15 Jan 2003 15:51:22 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)7 Subject: Re: Most common OpenVMS versions in use today?i5 Message-ID: <b0401p$ks6al$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>c  3 In article <iB6tRyppgHwW@eisner.encompasserve.org>, > 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:e > In article <3E24A372.E7FED3E2@aaa.com>, Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> writes:n >> a6 >> I still claim, VMS *might* have been a "desktop" OS= >> some time ago, it's not now, and it will never be (again).l > 8 >    That's funny, then why am I using it on my desktop?  C I, too, have both VAX and Alpha systems running on desktops both ati work and at home.  Go figure.y   bill  n -- MJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   e   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 07:51:53 -0800r# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>b7 Subject: RE: Most common OpenVMS versions in use today?a9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIOELIGGAA.tom@kednos.com>h   >-----Original Message-----oC >From: Bob Koehler [mailto:koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org]t* >Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 7:46 AM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com8 >Subject: Re: Most common OpenVMS versions in use today? >  >h2 >In article <3E24A372.E7FED3E2@aaa.com>, Jan-Erik 3 >=?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> writes:r >> o6 >> I still claim, VMS *might* have been a "desktop" OS= >> some time ago, it's not now, and it will never be (again).e >i7 >   That's funny, then why am I using it on my desktop?e< I suspect what was meant was, of limited (general) usability >. >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.,; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).aB >Version: 6.0.435 / Virus Database: 244 - Release Date: 12/30/2002 >0 ---3& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A Version: 6.0.435 / Virus Database: 244 - Release Date: 12/30/2002    ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 15:23:50 +0000 (UTC) , From: lewis@PROBE.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)# Subject: Re: Network install of VMSy. Message-ID: <b03ue6$rp9$1@newslocal.mitre.org>  E >> I have a VAXstation VLC, which in keeping with the 'very low cost'TK >> aspect of things has no removable media at all.  Since I'm just learning K >> VMS, I want to clear off the VMS installation that is already present on E >> the system (and apparently quite mangled) that came with it when IuK >> bought it. In it's stead I would like to install the hobbyist version oftJ >> OpenVMS. I haven't got the hobbyist stuff all sorted out yet but I have- >> started the wheels turning to get a copy. i >> "J >> In the interim, I was hoping someone could shed a little light on how IK >> will be able to get the OS installed on the VAX once I do have the CD ineE >> my hands.  I have a Linux box which I can run mopd on, but I am sotK >> unfamiliar with DECnet I don't really know if VMS supports installs overgF >> the network or only netbooting live systems.  Also, I don't know ifG >> Linux is going to be able to mount the CD at all for me to share outx >> over the network. m  J First of all, there's no hobbyist version of VMS, just hobbyist licenses. I They are free, but you should hang on to your commercial licenses just in , case you want to make money legally someday.  L BY FAR the easiest way to install VMS is to borrow an external SCSI CD drive" and hook it up to your Vaxstation.  I If you can't, there's a thread from last year which explains how to do itgJ with a spare hard drive, 640 MB of free space on another hard drive, and a8 Linux box.  It might have even made it into the VMS FAQ.  + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.orgh> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 10:05:54 +0000i' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancys9 Subject: Re: No mention of Digital in official HP historyc, Message-ID: <3E253282.50204@nospamn.sun.com>   John Smith wrote:a
 > It figures. A > http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/abouthp/histnfacts/timeline/index.html  > G > Arguably the most innovative computer company, Digital's achievements4F > in computing are studiously ignored in HP's corporate history, while. > clonemaker Compaq is trumpeted to the world. >  >   @ Why would you want to mention Digital when its legacy has little1 or no place in HP's thrusting new organisation ??y  ? Giving it a mention could elicit the response "so what happenedi9 to it" and no one wants to answer that question, much tooe embarassing.   regardss Andrew Harrisonh   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 10:50:43 +0000a% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> 9 Subject: Re: No mention of Digital in official HP historys8 Message-ID: <g1fa2vgvhfev70p8ijg4jmepdjmue5hfcg@4ax.com>  F On Wed, 15 Jan 2003 01:36:19 GMT, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote:   >It figures.@ >http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/abouthp/histnfacts/timeline/index.html > F >Arguably the most innovative computer company, Digital's achievementsE >in computing are studiously ignored in HP's corporate history, whilei- >clonemaker Compaq is trumpeted to the world.r  E I just looked. Absolutely and utterly disgusting. The HP timeline hasoF been back edited to insert Compaq puffs but none of DEC's achievements2 are listed. No PDPs, no VAX, no Alpha, no nothing.     -- Alan   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jan 2003 07:36:03 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)o9 Subject: Re: No mention of Digital in official HP historyI3 Message-ID: <JyvshO856d9A@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  V In article <3E253282.50204@nospamn.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy writes: >  >  > John Smith wrote:u >> It figures.B >> http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/abouthp/histnfacts/timeline/index.html >> lH >> Arguably the most innovative computer company, Digital's achievementsG >> in computing are studiously ignored in HP's corporate history, while / >> clonemaker Compaq is trumpeted to the world.  >> t >> > > B > Why would you want to mention Digital when its legacy has little3 > or no place in HP's thrusting new organisation ??, >   9 	Corporate History, as in "history".  i.e. what actually -= 	took place.  When it is obviously twisted or left out, it is * 	often referred to as revisionist history.   				Robo   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 13:45:18 GMTo' From: ben_myers@charter.net (Ben Myers) 9 Subject: Re: No mention of Digital in official HP historyp. Message-ID: <3e2565bb.677082@news.charter.net>  H Revisionist history is a popular practice these days among companies andJ governments alike.  HP has its own legacy albatrosses to tout... Ben Myers  J On Wed, 15 Jan 2003 10:50:43 +0000, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote:  G >On Wed, 15 Jan 2003 01:36:19 GMT, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote:J >p
 >>It figures.-A >>http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/abouthp/histnfacts/timeline/index.html, >>G >>Arguably the most innovative computer company, Digital's achievements3F >>in computing are studiously ignored in HP's corporate history, while. >>clonemaker Compaq is trumpeted to the world. >hF >I just looked. Absolutely and utterly disgusting. The HP timeline hasG >been back edited to insert Compaq puffs but none of DEC's achievements 3 >are listed. No PDPs, no VAX, no Alpha, no nothing.  >> >n >--a >Alant   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 13:50:41 -0000 * From: Andrew Robinson <arobinson@hspg.com>9 Subject: RE: No mention of Digital in official HP historyiO Message-ID: <CDA4BAD1E10ED41181AC00508B6051D3023CCDE8@grumpy.internal.hspg.com>h  J I always thought that History is almost always written by the Victor's, soL any achievements of the losers or old allies are warped to suit. Is this not just a prime example?a   Regards>   Andrew Robinson    -----Original Message-----' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancyo/ [mailto:Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com] s <snip> >> It figures. LB >> http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/abouthp/histnfacts/timeline/index.html >> pI >> Arguably the most innovative computer company, Digital's achievements sH >> in computing are studiously ignored in HP's corporate history, while / >> clonemaker Compaq is trumpeted to the world.  >>   >> e >nG >Why would you want to mention Digital when its legacy has little or no- place in HP's thrusting- >new organisation ?? >0K >Giving it a mention could elicit the response "so what happened to it" andi no one wants to-, >answer that question, much too embarassing. >- >regards >Andrew Harrison   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 10:39:32 +0000c+ From: John Laird <john@laird-towers.org.uk>l/ Subject: Re: OpenVMS for AlphaStation 200 4/233a8 Message-ID: <meea2v053qeiee36oi2f9sej9md8c2bnbv@4ax.com>  C On Wed, 15 Jan 2003 00:55:49 GMT, VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:t  X >In article <01C2BBDC.3D1FF920@sulfer.icius.com>, Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> writes:E >>The oldest would be OpenVMS AXP 1.5, but I wouldn't use it. It's antE >>early adopter's version, contemporary with OpenVMS VAX 5.something,uB >>5.5-2 I think. The earliest one I'd consider using would be 6.0. >uD >On an AS200, Shane?  I vaguely remember trying to install V6.1 and  >there were issues.m  A Maybe because it needed 6.1-1H1 or -1H2 ?  Release history is at:eE http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/os/openvms-release-history.htmls  H And yes, that is the URL provided by HP's own search utility, as well as Google."     	Johnk   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 12:17:35 GMTd" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG/ Subject: Re: OpenVMS for AlphaStation 200 4/233e0 Message-ID: <00A19FEE.A54F1484@SendSpamHere.ORG>  f In article <meea2v053qeiee36oi2f9sej9md8c2bnbv@4ax.com>, John Laird <john@laird-towers.org.uk> writes:D >On Wed, 15 Jan 2003 00:55:49 GMT, VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: >aY >>In article <01C2BBDC.3D1FF920@sulfer.icius.com>, Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> writes:eF >>>The oldest would be OpenVMS AXP 1.5, but I wouldn't use it. It's anF >>>early adopter's version, contemporary with OpenVMS VAX 5.something,C >>>5.5-2 I think. The earliest one I'd consider using would be 6.0.E >>E >>On an AS200, Shane?  I vaguely remember trying to install V6.1 and J >>there were issues. > B >Maybe because it needed 6.1-1H1 or -1H2 ?  Release history is at:F >http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/os/openvms-release-history.html     Thanks John,  F I was pretty sure that the V1.5 wouldn't work and recalled there being some issues around V6.1.   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM             S5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" e   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 10:53:02 -0800r$ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>/ Subject: RE: OpenVMS for AlphaStation 200 4/233-0 Message-ID: <01C2BC84.486C5780@sulfer.icius.com>  E I know from personal experience 1.5 ran on a 3000/300. In fact I onlyrG managed to get the PHBs to let me upgrade from 1.5 on one of those whenlC we had to upgrade BASIC and the new version required 6.0 or higher.6   Shane-   -----Original Message-----: From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net [mailto:Kilgallen@SpamCop.net]' Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 8:48 PMl To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com / Subject: RE: OpenVMS for AlphaStation 200 4/233a    : In article <00A19F8F.671A455B@SendSpamHere.ORG>,   VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:e> > In article <01C2BBDC.3D1FF920@sulfer.icius.com>, Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> writes:E >>The oldest would be OpenVMS AXP 1.5, but I wouldn't use it. It's anwE >>early adopter's version, contemporary with OpenVMS VAX 5.something, B >>5.5-2 I think. The earliest one I'd consider using would be 6.0. > E > On an AS200, Shane?  I vaguely remember trying to install V6.1 and   > there were issues.  C The "new machine" when V1.5 came out _might_ have been the DEC 3000 
 model 300.   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jan 2003 07:28:59 -0600B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) Subject: Re: QIO lengths3 Message-ID: <gjt9b2eAWhoT@eisner.encompasserve.org>c  O In article <slrnb29pgn.6t.rivie@RIvie.no.domain>, rivie@RIvie.no.domain writes:e: > In article <3E246CB7.1010601@gce.com>, G Everhart wrote: >> re QIO length: K >> Even on Vax, the bytecount in a $qio can be 32 bits long. The IRP field -L >> is 32 bits wide. (If I recall rightly it is still the same on Alpha, but  >> I can't look from here.): > D > I've done megabyte transfers to a SCSI disk on a VAX, with a logicI > analyzer on the bus so I knew megabytes were actually being transferredr > between command packets.  H As mentioned in another thread, the Pn parameters are held in the IRP inB longwords. If the driver supports it, this is extended to 64 bits.  K Regarding the mapping registers, if the memory configuration and the driver H supports it, the driver can use the direct DMA window when accessing PCI5 controllers, and bypass the use of mapping registers.s   Simon.   -- =B Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       & "This is VMS. Viruses are irrelevant."   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 15:03:14 -0000 * From: "John Travell" <john@travell.uk.net>  Subject: Re: Reading file in DCL5 Message-ID: <b03tm7$lbiho$2@ID-120847.news.dfncis.de>>  4 "Carl Perkins" <carl@gerg.tamu.edu> wrote in message' news:14JAN200320365303@gerg.tamu.edu...w6 > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes... > }"David J. Dachtera" wrote:l > }> $ READ/END=EOF_INP INP P9 > }> $ GOTO READ_LOOPr > }> $EOF_INP: > }> $ CLOSE INP > }> $ P9_LEN = F$LENGTH( P9 ) > }s > } K > }Question: when you reach end of file, and the READ statement branches toa theeK > }/END=label, is there a garantee that the target symbol remains unchangedg (eg:, > }still contains the last succesful read) ? >t% > Of course it will remain unchanged.J >eE > If DCL just randomly changed user defined symbols behind youyr back-@ > it would not be possible to write any programs with it at all.A > If you don't change it, it remains unchanged. (This is not truejE > for symbols that are not user defined, such as $STATUS, of course.)2 >aJ > }Also, in a fixed 512 file, will the last read yield the right number of bytes,L > }or just 512 bytes (with badding from true end of file to fill 512 bytes). ?t >tI The DCL 'read' command will read one RECORD from the file. In general howb! much this is depends on the file.-E Remember, VMS has a SMART file-system where records have identifiable J boundaries that do not need to co-incide with block or cluster boundaries.       JT:N     ---.& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A Version: 6.0.443 / Virus Database: 248 - Release Date: 10/01/2003o   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jan 2003 10:34:37 -0800. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)  Subject: Re: Reading file in DCL= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0301151034.5329cd1c@posting.google.com>e  \ carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) wrote in message news:<14JAN200322215955@gerg.tamu.edu>...6 > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes... > }Carl Perkins wrote:H > }> If DCL just randomly changed user defined symbols behind youyr backC > }> it would not be possible to write any programs with it at all.  > }  > }But when you issue: > } % > }$READ/END=ENDLABEL myfile MYSYMBOL- > } F > }don't you implicitely agree to have the value of MYSYMBOL changed ? > N > You agree to have it changed to the contents of a record read from the file.L > If you are at the EOF and try another read, there is no record to read andI > thus no read is actually done. Since there was no actual read, there is  > no change either.n > L > }If it reaches end-of file, wouldn't it be logical for the READ to set theM > }value of MYSYMBOL to null before branching to ENDLABEL ? Or does it reallyn > }leave MYSYMBOL unchanged? >   > It really leaves it unchanged.  F Yes, it really, really does. Perhaps he recently just did a command in MS-DOS likee       SORT <myfile >myfile  E and lost the data in "myfile"! This command is equivalent to deletingt all the lines in the file.  D But this is not DOS. This is VMS. And VMS doesn't work like that. In? fact, the same happens when you try to assign a new value to an3C already-existing symbol and the command fails: The symbol still has  its old value.  1 I really don't think this will change -- really. l   [...]cK > This is probably similar in some respects to the discussion (or argument)hJ > of what should happen if you do an f$getdvi to check the availability ofN > a device that doesn't exist. As it is, if a device doesn't exist then askingK > if it is available is a non-sequtor (how much does your non-existant pink G > elephant weigh?) so it returns an error. Likewise, if you aks for the<  D But you can ask what color the elephant is. It's pink! You just said@ so! You can ask if Superman wears a cape (he does), and SupermanD doesn't exist. You can ask how many legs are on a unicorn: four, andC unicorns don't exist. So you *can* ask questions about non-existenteE items. Of course you already knew the answers. But sometimes you havesF to read the rest of the (fictional) story (or wait till next week!) to answer them. Enough!!!!r  B JF was asking "Is there a device with this name, BLAH:, that I canF MOUNT?" He wants F$GETDVI("BLAH","AVL") to tell him the answer as just TRUE or FALSE. But it doesn't.  E Words often take on very specific meanings in techincal contexts. ForlE example, in math [bear with me], a series can converge or diverge. If B the series approaches a finite limit, it is said to converge. ThatC jives with what we think "converge" means. But some series diverge, A but for different reasons. Some diverge because the sum increasesiB without limit. E.g., 1+1+1+1+1.... But some "diverge" because they$ oscillate. E.g. 1-1+1-1+1-1+1-1+....  F So, here we see a use of the word "diverge" in a very particular senseF which in the former case jives with our usual meaning for diverge, butE in the latter case doesn't. The same goes for F$GETDVI("BLAH","AVL"). C In this case, AVL has a particular meaning that may or may not jive.E with what you normally thing "Available" means. If you don't like it,aD you'll have to write your own system service or just add a few extra lines of DCL to deal with it.h  F So just like there's no point arguing about whether the word "diverge"D should have been chosen to describe these non-convergent series, theE same goes for "available". It doesn't matter what you can or can't do E with what does or doesn't exist. AVL has a certain meaning in VMS andt> that's that. It is a sensible meaning. They could have done itE differently and still be sensible but from another point of view. But  they didn't.   [...]e
 > --- Carl   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldmani   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jan 2003 10:50:19 -0800. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)  Subject: Re: Reading file in DCL= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0301151050.13e53fc6@posting.google.com>a  g JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3E24D92A.E0329392@vl.videotron.ca>...8 > "David J. Dachtera" wrote: > > Whaddaya think?) > & > I am thinking about a chocolate bar.  ; I heard that chocolate is about to be banned worldwide! :-)c  9 > Ok, so the symbol isn't changed when READ gets to EOF.     Correct.  L > But is there a garantee that this is part of the documented  behaviour, orE > just some lucky behaviour that the VMS engineers decide to change ?   A There is no explicit guarantee. But ***at this level*** there are0A probably many things that are not explicitly guaranteed in VMS. Ig really wouldn't worry about it.s  M > There are many things that work right now but that oen should not rely upond& > because it may change in the future.  C Yes, but this isn't one of them. Well, at worst, I think it is veryiD unlikely that VMS Engineering will change this behavior. If you mustC put this in that category, I'd put it at the least worrisome end ofd
 the spectrum.e  2 > It is in that context that I asked the question.   OK. Still: Don't worry.   B If you still worry, then assign the value of the symbol to another? symbol before re-executing that READ statment, and use that new- symbol.    Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldmanc   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 07:26:34 +0000 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>F Subject: Re: searching for seemingly obscure disk activity light cable) Message-ID: <3E250D2A.50E7F596@127.0.0.1>    David Spencer wrote: > H > Sorry if this is slightly off topic; but this is for a VMS machine. :) > ^ > I need a disk activity light cable for a Digital Personal Workstation 500au. The part number] > I've discovered is 17-04472-01 and is made by Amphenol. It's a simple cable - it has a fouroQ > pin connector on both ends and connects the motherboard to the SCSI controller.s > Z > Mine was wrecked and I'd like to get another. So far I've only found one source and theyY > want $40 for it. Considering it's a very simple cable (one 14" wire between two plastich[ > connectors) I consider that excessive. Does anybody know where I can get spares on thingsa
 > like this??   H I had a similar issue with an RF36 cable, I was looking for something toH connect the front panel up to the drive and I was quoted silly prices as well.e  E In the end, I made one up myself, but I do have soldering experience,iH and I was able to identify the correct pin pitch and source a connector,G with solder pins, and I used a little ribbon cable to make the lead up.cH I did check the pin to pin relationship, while *most* cables are pin for1 pin, an odd one or two have a twist in them IIRC.n  @ The other thing is, if it is merely disk activity, many PCs haveE indicator cabling which may be suitable to cannibalize and just run aiE pair of wires for the indicator. I think you can get these things foru
 retro fit.   HTHr -- e? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot coma   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 10:42:13 +0000c% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>1Y Subject: Re: The manual says "Do not use QIO for reading from a file" has  anyone heard oe8 Message-ID: <rgea2v8qnae3a8a6a74ug0sv3jg9ab0he9@4ax.com>  / On Tue, 14 Jan 2003 20:03:48 +0100, SAP Traineed& <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr> wrote:    H >SAP joke of the day: There is a DEC installation folder in the SAP R/3 F >4.6b documentation CD (dated 28-feb-2000), together with AIX, HP/UX, + >OS2, OS400, RELIANT, SOLARIS and Win-NT...a  C The latest (and final major release) of MANMAN (V12.0) dated around > October 2002, still refers to DEC MANMAN at every opportunity.C Delegates to the 2002 User Group Conference were issued with badgesoC saying "DEC MANMAN". HP staff present took this as an indication of 2 the low regard Compaq was held in compared to DEC.   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 09:19:52 +0100b1 From: Franz-Josef Fornefeld <jo.fornefeld@gmx.de>hY Subject: Re: The manual says "Do not use QIO for reading from a file" has anyone heard ofs( Message-ID: <b0393p.2kk.1@jo.dyndns.org>   SAP Trainee wrote:  I > SAP joke of the day: There is a DEC installation folder in the SAP R/3 aG > 4.6b documentation CD (dated 28-feb-2000), together with AIX, HP/UX, i, > OS2, OS400, RELIANT, SOLARIS and Win-NT...   Just another Operating System?   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jan 2003 09:55:04 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)nY Subject: Re: The manual says "Do not use QIO for reading from a file" has anyone heard oft3 Message-ID: <KDFdQ$iMd0WM@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  d In article <fbcf38dc.0301141045.25fd47be@posting.google.com>, rcbryan@hotmail.com (RC Bryan) writes:G > In the "OpenVMS Programming Concepts Manual" (which can be referencedr > at:hC > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc/731FINAL/5841/5841pro_061.html)iG > in section 23.9.1: it says "Note  Do not use the SYS$QIO and SYS$QIOW ? > system services for input from a file or nonterminal device."k > E > I admit I did not read every last bit of the surrounding text but InD > have to ask, "What does the system use for reading?"  Am I missingD > something here?  What are we supposed to use to read non-RMS data?  F    That statement is just plain wrong.  RMS communicates with the diskE    primarily through $QIO, and if you follow the I/O Reference Manualo4    and the dicussion of ACP interfaces, you can too.  E    But you better have a good reason for so painfully recreating what     RMS does for you.    rH    On the other hand, I/O to and from unlabeled tapes is fairly straightA    forward, and I/O to custom devices is often done stricktly viaa    $QIO.   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jan 2003 09:55:40 -0800$ From: rcbryan@hotmail.com (RC Bryan)Y Subject: Re: The manual says "Do not use QIO for reading from a file" has anyone heard of = Message-ID: <fbcf38dc.0301150955.189340c4@posting.google.com>   S danco@ns2.pebble.org wrote in message news:<slrnb29lbv.l8k.danco@ns2.pebble.org>...uO > In article <fbcf38dc.0301141045.25fd47be@posting.google.com>, RC Bryan wrote:e  G > QIO is good.  RMS BLOCK I/O is okay.  The C Run-Time Library file I/OhI > functions in recent OpenVMS versions are also good (they're also easierr? > for some programmers to code to and certainly more portable).d  E The C run time library is my first choice for just about everything. SE I can type in C RTL I/O without thinking about it.  When I want to doeB anything with QIOs, I have to look in the manuals and even then it+ takes several cycles before I get it right.e  C We are using QIOs because we had an application that shares data onlE disk between multiple processes and when we write the data to disk ituA has to be on disk, I played with all kinds of combinations of RTL D options, fflush, fsync, etc. and the QIOs were the only way we couldF GUARANTEE 100% that the data was correct.  I imagine QIOs gave us lessE overhead as well, another plus.  QIOs are a P.I.T.A. but they get the-	 job done.5  F I got started with this because the manual says "Do not use QIO..."  IC thought all I/O in the system came down to QIOs in the end.  I haveDE since heard about Fast I/Os.  When I do an upgrade of our software, IpD will have to check that out. Perhaps the manual means that Fast I/Os  (sys$io) should be used instead.   Regards,	 /RC Bryano   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 12:06:09 +0100H9 From: "Robert TRAWISKI" <robert.trawinski@softax.com.pl>f Subject: THREADCP problemo. Message-ID: <b03f5c$va4$1@bozon.softax.com.pl>   Hi,r  J I develop program that should have kernel thread disabled (OpenVMS v.7.2-1+ and OpenVMS v.7.3-1). I use THREADCP tools:n  ? $ THREADCP/DISABLE=(MULITPE_KERNEL_THREADS,UPCALLS) PROGRAM.EXE   I But the program link few shared libraries. Shuold I do the same for thoseV libraries ? For example:  ? $ THREADCP/DISABLE=(MULITPE_KERNEL_THREADS,UPCALLS) LIB1SHR.EXE2   Thanks in advanceV   Robert   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jan 2003 07:25:20 -0800( From: b_johnson@tditx.com (Bill Johnson)7 Subject: Upgrade VCS or PCM for FREE with ConsoleWorks! = Message-ID: <39eeb15a.0301150725.4b3b3e1d@posting.google.com>c  D TDi announces a cost effective alternative to VCS, PCM, or UnicenterF Console Management for OpenVMS. ConsoleWorks replaces PCM within a fewB short steps, will save you money on your current support costs, isC regularly updated with new features, and reduces operational costs.yC Trade in your VCS, PCM, or Unicenter Console Management for OpenVMSc> licenses today, and TDi will provide you with your choice of aE supported ConsoleWorks Web Server and fifty (50) connections for FREEh - a $33,500 dollar value!   * How can I benefit from using ConsoleWorks?  - Use ConsoleWorks and realize the benefits of:   - - A supported and updated management solutiont - Up to Date Scan files @   (HSJ, HSZ, HSV, HSG, VMS 7.3, Cisco IOS12, HPux, AIX,  Oracle)& - Web-based & command line interfaces 8 - End-to-end encrypted console sessions using SSL & SSH  - Built in reports b( - Logging of all traffic on each console/ - Real time event notification with event help u  / Read What Our Customers Say About ConsoleWorks: E "ConsoleWorks deals better with the large volume of information. Witht> PCM, events rolled off the screen before I could find out whatE happened. ConsoleWorks keeps events active until they have been dealtrD with and purged. Also, ConsoleWorks logs all events so that I can go& back and look up a history of events."  F "With ConsoleWorks, I can do a system reboot remotely. But even betterD than that, I can map the environment variables before doing a reboot. and then use those variables after rebooting."  D "One hour after ConsoleWorks was installed, a production server wentD down. We rebooted the server remotely and saved one hour and fifteenB minutes of driving time plus the additional time needed to fix the	 problem."t   How Do I Get ConsoleWorks?A TDi is making this special offer to companies with a VCS, PCM, or D Unicenter Console Management for OpenVMS installation. TDi will giveF you a free ConsoleWorks Web Server and up to fifty (50) connections, aF $33,500 dollar value, with the trade in of your VCS, PCM, or Unicenter; Console Management for OpenVMS licenses and the purchase of5A maintenance, support, and 1 day of WEBx training. To receive your.; ConsoleWorks replacement software and training, call TDi atsB 1.800.695.1258 or visit our web site at www.tditx.com/replacement./ This offer is good through February 28th, 2003.u   ------------------------------   Date: 15 Jan 2003 08:33:20 GMT( From: nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren). Subject: Re: VMS on Itanic boot report sighted0 Message-ID: <b036cg$rdn$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>  ? In article <OF6781CABB.B60B066D-ON85256CAE.00518082@metso.com>,, norm.raphael@metso.com writes: |> .8 |> If only you had actually said, "No comment," instead.8 |> Knowledgeable readers here know what's what, eh what.  ? My experience with Usenet is that it is essential to add enoughe? explanation to stop the less knowledgeable from saying what youtA and I may regard as well-known.  And even then it gets denied :-(t     Regards, Nick Maclaren,* University of Cambridge Computing Service,> New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QH, England. Email:  nmm1@cam.ac.uk/ Tel.:  +44 1223 334761    Fax:  +44 1223 334679w   ------------------------------   Date: 15 Jan 2003 08:48:40 GMT( From: nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren). Subject: Re: VMS on Itanic boot report sighted0 Message-ID: <b03798$s87$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>  . In article <3e2428fb$1_3@hpb10302.boi.hp.com>,C "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star-dot-zko-dot-dec-dot-com> writes:e |> aH |> Getting new compilers complete (Bliss, Macro-32, C), dealing with theJ |> complexities of different calling standards and the need to continue toN |> support all that non-standard VAX code, a new linker, new tools, new objectI |> format, new image format, new firmware standard (and ACPI) has taken aeO |> while.  Unlike a new UNIX platform, it's a bit more than just getting GCC tor |> compile and link.  B Yes.  Even ignoring the minor detail that there was rather more to? getting even Linux up on that platform than converting gcc ....e  C |> But the reports are fairly accurate as to just how close we are.   % As distinct from the earlier ones :-)z     Regards, Nick Maclaren,* University of Cambridge Computing Service,> New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QH, England. Email:  nmm1@cam.ac.uk/ Tel.:  +44 1223 334761    Fax:  +44 1223 334679-   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 17:14:00 GMT@2 From: "frank brown" <frank.brown@ci.seattle.wa.us>. Subject: where are diskeeper logicals defined?2 Message-ID: <sFgV9.70$575.17917@news-west.eli.net>  ? Running Diskeeper 7.1 on VAX/VMS 5.5-2.  I can't find where the5L ESI_PROD_CONTROL_MASTER logical is defined; it's not in SYLOGICALS.COM.  Can7 anyone point me to where this logical is being defined?a   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 10:51:28 -0000m+ From: "Peter Howe" <peter.howe@primark.com> " Subject: XML (Apache Xerces/Xalan)$ Message-ID: <3e253db1$1@primark.com>  5 HP have made a VMS port of Xerces/Xalan available viai7 http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/products/ips/xml/   J It is based on 2-year-old versions of Xerces/Xalan (version 1.3 of Xerces!L The current version is 2.1!)  Does anyone know if there is a more up-to-dateI port available anywhere, or where I could find further information of XML>I technologies that I could use instead?  Are there any plans by HP to do as more up-to-date port?e   Thanks,i Pete   ----------------------
 Peter Howe peter.howe@tfn.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 10:33:43 -0500 0 From: "John L Ferguson" <John.L.Ferguson@hp.com>& Subject: Re: XML (Apache Xerces/Xalan)- Message-ID: <0dfV9.31$ZN3.5@news.cpqcorp.net>a  J We are currently working to provide updates to Xerces, Xalan, and the SOAPI Toolkit in the next couple of months.  I'll put an announcement here once  we're done.-  
 John Ferguson- OpenVMS e-Business  6 "Peter Howe" <peter.howe@primark.com> wrote in message news:3e253db1$1@primark.com...7 > HP have made a VMS port of Xerces/Xalan available viaO9 > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/products/ips/xml/- > L > It is based on 2-year-old versions of Xerces/Xalan (version 1.3 of Xerces!C > The current version is 2.1!)  Does anyone know if there is a moree
 up-to-dateK > port available anywhere, or where I could find further information of XML2K > technologies that I could use instead?  Are there any plans by HP to do a> > more up-to-date port?  >g	 > Thanks,e > Pete >p > ---------------------- > Peter Howe > peter.howe@tfn.com >) >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 16:08:52 +0100t* From: Patrick Moreau <pmoreau@ath.cena.fr>5 Subject: [LOOKING FOR] Identd/pidentd daemons for VMS 4 Message-ID: <3e2587d8$0$16243$626a54ce@news.free.fr>   Hi all,r  I I'm looking for a VMS/ DEC TCPIP (7.2-1/5.0A or later) implementation of gE identifications daemon identd or pidentd. I know there was a version t< available with Multinet but I don't have Multinet. No other 4 implementation seems present into Google indexes ...  ) If you have such a beast, drop me a line.0   TIAC   Patricke CENA/Athis-Monsr FRANCE   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 18:59:41 +0100@6 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>9 Subject: Re: [LOOKING FOR] Identd/pidentd daemons for VMS ) Message-ID: <3E25A18D.5050505@vajhoej.dk>u   Patrick Moreau wrote:aK > I'm looking for a VMS/ DEC TCPIP (7.2-1/5.0A or later) implementation of eG > identifications daemon identd or pidentd. I know there was a version  > > available with Multinet but I don't have Multinet. No other 6 > implementation seems present into Google indexes ...   I saved:1    ftp://ftp.vajhoej.dk/collection/ucx_identd.zip. many many years ago .e   You could try it.e   Arne   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.030 ************************