0 INFO-VAX	Sun, 19 Jan 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 37      Contents:5 RE: (OT) lots of spam in vmsnet.sdk.openvms.fieldtest 5 Re: (OT) lots of spam in vmsnet.sdk.openvms.fieldtest " Re: ALphaServer 2100A Disk Options ALphaServer 2100A Disk Options Re: Digital server 5000 
 Re: ES40 Hang 1 FA: Digital DEC H4000 Ethernet Transceiver NIB NR . FA: Digital DEC VAX 2M ETHERNET/IEEE AUI CABLE Re: How to Backup OSX , Re: How to flash VAXstation 4000/90 FEPROMS?- Re: HP Sets the Stage for Alpha's Last Hurrah 4 Re: incomprehensible mountVerifyTimeout in a cluster' Itanium ahead of itself, not behind ... + Re: Itanium ahead of itself, not behind ... - Re: Itanium with alpha goodies on the way ... - Re: Itanium with alpha goodies on the way ... - Re: Itanium with alpha goodies on the way ... - Re: Itanium with alpha goodies on the way ... - Re: Itanium with alpha goodies on the way ... - Re: Itanium with alpha goodies on the way ...  Re: KDA50 in BA123 Re: KDA50 in BA123 MAIL 11 protocol definition  Re: MOP with Multiple NICs. Re: Network Time Protocol (NTP) for OpenVMS ??. Re: Network Time Protocol (NTP) for OpenVMS ??. Re: Network Time Protocol (NTP) for OpenVMS ?? Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth  Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 16:42:54 +0000 (UTC) + From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb) > Subject: RE: (OT) lots of spam in vmsnet.sdk.openvms.fieldtest* Message-ID: <b0c06e$2r$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>  W In article <01C2BE46.85281560@sulfer.icius.com>, Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> writes:  >Update: > @ >It's not spam from a company, it's a community generating thoseI >postings. What's happening is that the Spanish anime* community is using D >that newsgroup to share DIVX movies, apparently unaware that it wasG >being used for serious work. I have been contacted by the webmaster of H >one of their websites, apologising and promising to put the word aroundG >to please go elsewhere. He can't promise, but apparently no malice was D >intended so maybe they'll just show some manners and you'll get the >group back. >  >Shane > D >* Japanese animation; Akira, Ghost in the Shell, Urotsukidoji, etc. > P That's rubbish - they have been spamming tons of groups with this japanese animeM stuff. Just take a look through half the vmsnet groups and you'll find things  like  C 5 Jan 2003 kor20 [14/16] - kor20.PAR yEnc (1/1)  (1 article) mike09 C 3 Jan 2003 kor19 [14/16] - kor19.PAR yEnc (1/1)  (1 article) mike09 C 1 Jan 2003 kor18 [14/16] - kor18.PAR yEnc (1/1)  (1 article) mike09 D 30 Dec 2002 kor17 [15/17] - kor17.PAR yEnc (1/1)  (1 article) mike09D 28 Dec 2002 kor16 [16/18] - kor16.PAR yEnc (1/1)  (1 article) mike09D 26 Dec 2002 kor15 [15/17] - kor15.PAR yEnc (1/1)  (1 article) mike09L 24 Dec 2002 Sobre el envio del capitulo 2x01 de Buffy  (2 articles) KyoDyhosD 23 Dec 2002 kor14 [15/17] - kor14.PAR yEnc (1/1)  (1 article) mike09K 23 Dec 2002 [01/19] - "Buffy201-Buffy se vuelve mala[by Hen...  (1 article)  AkashaC 21 Dec 2002 kor13 [14/17] - kor13.13 yEnc (1/1)  (1 article) mike09 D 21 Dec 2002 kor13 [15/17] - kor13.PAR yEnc (1/1)  (1 article) mike09O 19 Dec 2002 kor12 [16/18] - en emision pirata kor12.PAR yEnc (1/1)  (1 article)  mike09M 19 Dec 2002 No puedo reproducir los videos de D&D. Con que c...  (2 articles)  UrusergiH 19 Dec 2002 mike en emision pirata gg.txt yEnc (1/1)  (1 article) mike09J 18 Dec 2002 (??] [01/21] - "D&D -- 19 -- La ltima il...  (1 article) RekmaG 16 Dec 2002 podrias resubir trozos 6,7,8,9, de BlackBible 1 por ...  (2  articles) DarKK 16 Dec 2002 (Reposteo de Bastard Episodio 3] [12/12] - "[Ed...  (1 article) 	 DarKWateR / 15 Dec 2002 para Kyo Dyhos  (3 articles) mike09 G 14 Dec 2002 Alguien puede resubir el caxo 11 o algun par del cap...  (1  article) Alber+ 14 Dec 2002 to mkl de new  (2 articles) MKL G 13 Dec 2002 reposteo de A. no ceres [19/20] - tusdivx.com [ash]A...  (1  article) mike09 . 13 Dec 2002 Para mike09  (1 article) Kyo DyhosK 13 Dec 2002 [S-HQ ashdam] [19/19] - "[ash]Ayashi No Ceres E...  (1 article)  ashdam Next 25 threads >>    , The above is from vmsnet.networks.tcp-ip.ucx    E If they have to do this then they should setup their own alt group !! F They should definitely not be doing it in any of the other hierachies.  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University     >-----Original Message-----  >From: Shane Smith  ' >Sent: Friday, January 17, 2003 1:59 PM  >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com? >Subject: RE: (OT) lots of spam in vmsnet.sdk.openvms.fieldtest  >  > I >I've been sent a copy of the mail in question offline (thanks) and fired G >off a little flurry of complaints. I /think/ I've id'd the ISP hosting G >the culprits as ic2net.net. No abuse account registered, so abuse@ and C >postmaster@ have been informed. I've also fired of a quickie to an E >unidentified node in the chain 207.218.223.39. For good measure I've H >also contacted the admin of the company who owns the apparent culprit's >IP address, admin@ev1.net.  > G >I've requested they take appropriate action, and suggested that spiked I >baseball bats and a hungry doberman would seem completely appropriate in  >my opinion. > B >Incidentally, William, taxidermy may not be involved, but there'sB >already an electronic "severed heads" page for usenet abusers whoA >tangled with the alt.gothic "special forces". Have a chuckle at: , >http://thingy.apana.org.au/~fun/agsf/heads/ > H >I love the quote on that page: "And lo, the LART did come down from theF >heavens trailing fire and brimstone. Yea verily, the LART did implantI >itself in yon bozo's forehead, its mighty blade cleaving his thick skull I >in twain and exposing the empty spaces therein for all the world to gaze 4 >upon with much mirth and frivolity" - Camille Klein >  >Shane > H >P.S., No, I'm not a goth. You've got to love their attitude to spammers >though. >  >-----Original Message----- ) >From: VAXVMS [mailto:bounce@notmail.com] ( >Sent: Friday, January 17, 2003 12:22 PM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com? >Subject: RE: (OT) lots of spam in vmsnet.sdk.openvms.fieldtest  >  >  >  >Shane S. said:  > G > Somebody send me a copy of this, complete with mail headers, and I'll @ > see what I can do. I've been getting into spammer-hunting as a > bloodsport recently. >  > Shane  >  >Bloodsport?  
 >Spammers? >  >I *like* the sound of that... > 5 >After *you're* finished, I say we collect donations  0 >from the newsgroup for  the services of a good 6 >taxidermist, and then put the photos of the finished & >work online as an example for others. >:^) >  >======================== ! >William W. Webb / DSSC/RLM, USPS  >OpenVMS Support Services ' >4924 Green Road Raleigh, NC 27616-2800 ; >919.874.3043 <FirstInitialDotLastNameAtEmailDotUSPSDotGov>  >    ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jan 2003 20:18:09 -00004 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]>> Subject: Re: (OT) lots of spam in vmsnet.sdk.openvms.fieldtest5 Message-ID: <20030118201809.9623.qmail@nym.alias.net>   " -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----  9 On 18 Jan 2003, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote: + >In article <b0c06e$2r$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>, / >	david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb) writes:  >>H >> If they have to do this then they should setup their own alt group !!I >> They should definitely not be doing it in any of the other hierachies.  > C >And just how would they get News Admins worldwide to create and/or D >carry a newsgroup that's sole purpose is to violate copyright law??D >More and more News Admins are refusing to carry the alt.* hierarchyC >at all and without wide distribution it doesn't do what they want, E >thus, they barge in on legitimate groups with good distributions and  >make them useless.   J I'm sort-of hoping you meant alt.binaries.*. Many good news services don'tF carry that. I was *really* annoyed when I saw binaries in the multinetJ vmsnet group, they pushed legitimate posts off my server. Since that groupC is gatewayed to a mailing list I'm sure there was a swift response.    <snip>  G >This is nothing new, the UDP (USENET Death Penalty) has been effective F >in many cases and I think it should be extended to the INTERNET.  Not> >to mention how well "shunning" has worked for the Amish.  :-)  J Yes, but getting someone's website taken offline by their ISP, followed byC an early-morning visit from their local police is quite satisfying.      Doc. - --  6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.net    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----  Version: N/A  @ iQEVAwUBPiiK8sriC3SGiziTAQHbzwf/cJG894uyXoEeuma65knsHKKYLkbJA3f7@ iOCpt8+w2boHLH+32k1lUppO7cPIvViLjcAJI4YZUloMHKuScA+Ah9Md886/UlSm@ XdXWZ4ohiKaGTxgEkNF6AhkhmcF2pK4e7/eAhK8CdoOc3590Gd0dta8Ty/B3XbHF@ k/eWFOB8z1tnAf6AVRabXHqFjCGq2vKl6Jx0PbZ8qc1w9VTjH+EE0gbOgwbUMUyX@ JgIpPZINAX2oH07ba0yR1xY6FXbq4Od0xQnPOTvwtawN9pVhw9L2QpdmSuRKVf9/8 Jad8xeeNehKkXpdV084Gs3lFjzqhAQHMseY3e98/coZS2jZoPjHsxg== =C+3m  -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 15:18:02 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> + Subject: Re: ALphaServer 2100A Disk Options ' Message-ID: <3E29C48A.5D6F8317@fsi.net>    rob kas wrote: >  >     Hi > 0 > I'm trying to keep our last VMS machine alive.N > Does anyone know if the 9 Gig Disks will work in  AlphaServer 2100  InternalJ > RAID racks?   Failing that does anyone have a suggestion for adding Disk > Space to this old girl.   E Raid arrays come up on eBay from time to time. May be worth a look. A / storage array with HSZs might be a good option.    FWIW...    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 13:55:12 -0500 * From: "rob kas" <r0b@paychoice.nospam.com>' Subject: ALphaServer 2100A Disk Options : Message-ID: <gYgW9.1313$1n4.389367880@news.netcarrier.net>       Hi  . I'm trying to keep our last VMS machine alive.L Does anyone know if the 9 Gig Disks will work in  AlphaServer 2100  InternalH RAID racks?   Failing that does anyone have a suggestion for adding Disk Space to this old girl.     ,                                       Thanks+                                         Rob    ------------------------------   Date: 19 Jan 2003 06:21:06 GMT- From: djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall)   Subject: Re: Digital server 50005 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-dOiCYTtVex12@localhost>   A On Fri, 17 Jan 2003 17:33:33 UTC, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?=   <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:   > Tom Linden wrote:  > @ >  >>(at least if you use a recent MS Windows based web-browser) >  > >  > or Opera. > 1 > Are you running Opera on a non MS Windows box ?  >  > Arne   I've run it on OS/2 and Linux.   --   Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 01:04:59 +0100 5 From: "Chris Clifford" <chris.clifford@openvms.co.uk>  Subject: Re: ES40 Hang, Message-ID: <3e29ebb6$1@news.swissonline.ch>  L Firstly, ensure that the PCI_PARITY console variable is set to ON. HP/CompaqK issued a Blitz in October stating that many ES40s (and I believe DS20s) had 8 this incorrectly set and an OFF setting can cause hangs.  F Secondly, check your CPU revision level using SHOW CONFIG from SDA. IfL you've EV67 CPU's and a revision below 2.5, this can also cause problems. HPG are reluctant to proactively replace CPUs as there's a risk in doing so L which can outweigh the risk of the hang. They recommended that we stuck with our older rev levels.    - Chris.  ; "Lyndon Bartels" <lbartels@pressenter.com> wrote in message ( news:3E27130B.1EFFE0F8@pressenter.com...! > I had an interesting happening.  > J > I had one of my ES40s hang. I tried to force a crash at the console, butJ > it was so hung, that wouldn't work. It's cluster-mate lost connection to > it as well...  >  > % > I'm running v7.2-1. 4 cpus. 6G Mem.  > J > Each ES40 has redundant NICs, Redundant CIPCAs, and redundant KGPSA-CAs. >  > % > I had to press the reset button....  > 5 > Anyway, because of that, I didn't get a crash-dump.  >  >  > So I have two questions..  >  > 1.  Any ideas what happened? >   > 2.  What things can I look at? >  >  > Thanks in advance, >  > Lyndon >  >  > --I > My opinions are mine and mine alone. They seldom align with those of my  > employer.  >  > J > The only good thing about putting the cart before the horse is you don't > have > to look at the horse's butt.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 03:13:02 GMT 9 From: "Headley Sappleton" <headley.sappleton@verizon.net> : Subject: FA: Digital DEC H4000 Ethernet Transceiver NIB NR6 Message-ID: <2JoW9.4541$e34.1927@nwrddc04.gnilink.net>  ; Item name:    Digital DEC H4000 Ethernet Transceiver NIB NR  Item number:    2302093476( Quantity:                              1, Start price:                           $9.95= End date:                              Jan-24-03 20:35:04 PST   L http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2302093476&ssPageName=ADM E:B:LC:US:1    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 03:09:03 GMT 9 From: "Headley Sappleton" <headley.sappleton@verizon.net> 7 Subject: FA: Digital DEC VAX 2M ETHERNET/IEEE AUI CABLE 6 Message-ID: <jFoW9.4511$e34.1038@nwrddc04.gnilink.net>  6 Item name:  Digital DEC VAX 2M ETHERNET/IEEE AUI CABLE Item number:   2302093527 ( Quantity:                              1- Buy It Now price:                      $19.00 = End date:                              Jan-24-03 20:35:14 PST   L http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2302093527&ssPageName=ADM E:B:LC:US:1    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 22:06:10 -0500 ' From: Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net>  Subject: Re: How to Backup OSX< Message-ID: <howard-AA16BC.22061018012003@enews.newsguy.com>  @ In article <4wlW9.731686$%m4.3417976@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>,'  Tony Lawrence <tony@pcunix.com> wrote:   I > I think you are misunderstanding something here. How can a backup know  B > whether or not a file that it backed up should or should not be G > restored?  It can't.  There's also the matter of losing one piece of  . > thev differential, as the article explained.  4 Okay, I'll explain how it's done, if I can remember.  A A backup set, be it a full backup or an incremental, stores file  < attributes as well as data.  By comparing the "date of last H modification", you can determine if a file on disk is to be replaced by > one on tape.  That covers restoring only the latest copy, yes?  H So, how does it know to -delete- old files?  IIRC, by storing directory C information as well, a directory being a kind of file.  If a newer  D version of a directory file doesn't contain file X.Y, then file X.Y > shouldn't continue to exist, and it gets deleted.  I might be D remembering wrong, though.  I'll try cross-posting to a group which  would know.     J > Differentials are NOT the best way.  They are acceptable if there is no C > other way for you to do complete backups.  Period.  If you don't  4 > understand that, you'll someday wish that you did.  I No, that's what I was saying.  We're in violent agreement.  Full backups  6 followed by a series of incrementals is the way to go.    I > Trust me: I've seen more disasters than you'd ever want to know about.    G I haven't, because I've always been able to recover from data loss, or  9 near as dammit, since my first few weeks in the industry.    --  4 Today, on Paper-view: The World Origami Championship   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 01:56:33 +0000 ) From: Antonio Carlini <arcarlini@iee.org> 5 Subject: Re: How to flash VAXstation 4000/90 FEPROMS? $ Message-ID: <3E2A05D1.20806@iee.org>   Chris Scheers wrote:@ > The included readme.txt file refers to further instructions at7 > http://prosic.cxo.dec.com/PUBS/BLITZES/TD001620.HTML. H  > Unfortunately, that site does not appear to be available anymore.  Is-  > this information available somewhere else?   : That's an internal site (at the Colorado CSC IIRC) but the, blitzes were sometimes available externally.  D > Also, is the update for the -90 and -96 as well as the -90A.  (The > readme.txt implies so.)   3 It should work on the -90 and -90A but I cannot say  about the -96.   Antonio    --   --------------- - Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.org    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 13:52:09 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>6 Subject: Re: HP Sets the Stage for Alpha's Last Hurrah/ Message-ID: <3E299448.D7AA9F3D@vl.videotron.ca>    Mike Magee wrote: G > I don't mind how much salt you take as long as you read the INQUIRER. 6 > But I never steal anything -- and do resent that....    M Considering Mr Magee appears to be in the UK, it would be fairly hard for him L to steal stuff from the VMS temple on Spit Brook Rd. :-) :-) :-)  Unless, ofK course, he is in Reading and the coax cable that goes into his home doesn't M come from the cable TV company, it is an thinwire connection to DEC's Reading  network :-)   K I suspect that Mr Magee is provided with information as opposed to stealing I information. So Mr Kleinsorge shold be focusing on whom inside of Digital  would leak such information.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 01:14:16 -0500   From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>= Subject: Re: incomprehensible mountVerifyTimeout in a cluster 6 Message-ID: <1030119005822.11337A-100000@Ives.egh.com>  1 On Wed, 15 Jan 2003 norm.raphael@metso.com wrote:    > K > MVTIMEOUT=3600 is 1 hour.  After that timeout occurs, then the disks must  > be# > DISMOUNT/ABORT and MOUNTed again. M > I do not understand "a networks pb as none of the alphas exist the cluster.  > "   G I translated that as "a network problem as none of the alphas EXIT the  	 cluster."   @ As to why, I have no clue...  Did you look in OPERATOR.LOG or in the system error log?   A > after "I have 3 alpha in a cluster", so I cannot comment on the  > configuration. > L > From:  koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) on 01/15/2003 >        03:28 PM  > I > Please respond to koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  >  > To:    Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > cc:  > B > Subject:    Re: incomprehensible mountVerifyTimeout in a cluster >  > ? > In article <a39f53b1.0301150656.43ec4649@posting.google.com>, / > Pierre.Bru@spotimage.fr (Bru, Pierre) writes: 
 > > hello, > > 2 > > I have 3 alpha in a cluster (let say A, B & C)7 > > A mount disks of B and C. sometimes, these disks go  > > mountverifytimeout.  > > J > > as MVTIMEOUT=3600 and RECNXINTERVAL=120 on the 3 alpha, I do not thinkI > > the problem is a networks pb as none of the alphas exist the cluster.  > > G > > what if not a network pb can make the disks go mountVerifyTimeout ?  > E >    Was one of the systems down for a while?  I've seen this on some F >    cluster members when looking at the disks served by a member thatC >    was shut down for a while.  I can't recall if there's a simple D >    method to get the mount verify to retry after it has timed out.  D Once it has timed out, AFAIK, it is gone...  It has already returnedB an error status for all outstanding I/O's and so it is too late to resume.   B However, MVTIMEOUT is DYNAMIC, and IIRC, you can modify it while aB device is in mount-verification and it will change the timeout forB that device.  (I'm not certain of this, but I think I have used it@ to force an immediate timeout of a disk I knew was really brokenB and never coming back.  I may have had to do an I/O to the disk toD force the driver to recalculate the timeout, though.  I can't recall? ever using this to EXTEND the timeout period, but I think if it ; works to shorten the timeout, it should work to extend it.)   < An hour is really too short to notice there's a problem, and@ get the electricians in to fix the power or to get field serviceC in to replace a cable, or to get the A/C repaired, but it is plenty > long enough to reset a circuit breaker or press and accidently= popped "port select" button or reconnect an ethernet cable on A an NI cluster, or to ride out the reboot of a cluster member that  is serving the disk.  A I usually set MVTIMEOUT to about 10 hours, in case something dies  in the middle of the night.      --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jan 2003 11:43:39 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)0 Subject: Itanium ahead of itself, not behind ...= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0301181143.23c3574c@posting.google.com>   7 if you are Bill Todd, then disregard this as pure b.s., 6 otherwise, I know I can read as others can and Itanium5 is actually ahead of schedule, not behind like others - (we know who) have asserted ... from cnet ...     # Intel accelerates Itanium schedule     By Michael Kanellos  Staff Writer, CNET News.com  January 15, 2003, 9:00 PM PT   Read more about chips     ? Intel has changed the release schedule of its Itanium chips for D servers, adding a new chip for 2004 and moving up the launch date of6 an Itanium with two processor cores to 2005 from 2007.@ The changes reflect Intel's confidence in its ability to releaseB high-end server chips faster than competitors and thereby gain theC performance high ground, said Jonathan Eunice, principal analyst at  Illuminata.   E Itanium 2 ranks with the best server chips in the market, but the new F release schedule will likely enhance the chip's attractiveness and putF pressure on competitors to step up their own schedules, something that they have been loath to do.        D Intel's "design teams and design resources are well stocked, so theyE can do a shrink early or do a dual-core (chip) early. They have a lot A of leeway that would stress out a Sparc development team," Eunice D said, referring to shrinking the size of components on a chip and to' Sun Microsystems' UltraSparc processor.   D Under the new schedule, the Santa Clara, Calif.-based chipmaker this? summer will release Madison, a souped-up version of the current ? Itanium 2 with 6MB of level 3 cache, according to Jason Waxman, D marketing manager for enterprise processors at Intel. Increasing the@ cache, a reservoir of memory located on the processor, generally enhances performance.   E The chip, which will contain around 500 million transistors, will run E at 1.5GHz. Madison, like the entire Itanium family, is a 64-bit chip, F meaning that it can digest data in 64-bit chunks (as opposed to 32-bitC Pentium chips). Typically, 64-bit chips fit into the most expensive  and powerful servers.   E Soon after, Intel will release Deerfield, an energy-efficient Itanium  2 for rack and blade servers.   F Then, in 2004, the company will come out with a new version of MadisonC that will contain 9MB of level 3 cache. Most server chips currently ? come with 1MB of cache. This chip was previously not on Intel's  product road maps, Waxman said.    Two cores better than one A In 2005, Intel will follow with Montecito, which will contain two D Itanium processor cores on the same piece of silicon. Dual-processorE chips are pretty much what they sound like: single chips that contain B two separate "brains" so they can best a single-core chip but cost less than two separate ones.  C It's one of the hot design ideas in the chip world. IBM has already B come out with the first dual-processor chip for the server market,D Power4. Sun's UltraSparc IV, debuting toward the end of the year, is( expected to contain two processor cores.  C Analysts have also noted that Advanced Micro Devices' Opteron chip, B coming out in the first half, could be redesigned to accommodate a second processor core.  C Originally, Montecito, due in 2004, wasn't a dual-core chip, but it F was morphed after engineering and manufacturing teams concurred that a@ dual-processor chip could be mass-manufactured at Intel by 2005.  > "Our dual-core (chip) was originally planned for the following" generation of chips," said Waxman.  C Besides enhancing performance, Intel may use its dual-core chips to E undercut IBM, said Kevin Krewell, senior editor at the Microprocessor E Report. In larger servers, Oracle and other software vendors charge a 4 licensing fee for every processor in a given server.  F To date, IBM has said that the Power4, although a single chip, has twoB processors. Hence, software customers have to buy two licenses forC each Power4 chip. Intel is already indicating that it will consider B Montecito a single processor, requiring only one software license,
 Krewell said.   F "I think they are going to sell it that way to make it cost effective"E to switch to Itanium from other servers with different chips, Krewell  said.   C Montecito, Krewell added, will be made on the 90-nanometer process, ; which means the average feature inside the chip measures 90 C nanometers. Madison, Madison II and Deerfield will contain features : measuring 130 nanometers. The current Itanium 2 comes withA 180-nanometer features. Reducing feature size allows companies to # squeeze more transistors on a chip.    Not as sweet by any other nameF Continuity is another theme. Madison, Deerfield and Madison II will be sold under the Itanium 2 name.  E All of the forthcoming chips, including Montecito, will also fit into F the same motherboard sockets and be capable of using the same chipsetsD currently used in Itanium 2 servers, said Waxman. In turn, this willE reduce the need for server makers to redesign their servers with each 4 new chip release, smoothing the commercial adoption.  D Despite its long and often controversial history, the Itanium familyE appears to be gaining momentum in the market, according to Eunice. In C the mid-1990s, analysts speculated that the chip, designed by Intel F and Hewlett-Packard, would become one of the most popular for high-endD servers. However, the first version, formerly code-named Merced, was? delayed several times and offered only middling performance. It + finally debuted in 2001; sales were dismal.   ; Itanium 2, formerly McKinley, came out in July 2002 and was F substantially different from the first Itanium. Analysts have given it fairly positive reviews.  E Itanium 2 "competes or outperforms the fastest Alpha and Power chips. F It is right up there at the elite country club of performance," Eunice said.   ? Still, despite strong benchmark scores, sales started slow. The B economy was in a slump, which discouraged interest from customers,( software developers and hardware makers.  F Interest, though, appears to be growing, Eunice said. Laboratories and> other scientific customers are increasingly offering Itanium 2D servers. More software tools are also coming onto the market. If the" tide changes, Intel could benefit.  C "2002 was a terrible time to launch a new technology," said Eunice.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 18:02:35 -0500 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>4 Subject: Re: Itanium ahead of itself, not behind ...2 Message-ID: <oNGdnRFLrdOEQLSjXTWcpA@metrocast.net>  5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message 7 news:d7791aa1.0301181143.23c3574c@posting.google.com... 9 > if you are Bill Todd, then disregard this as pure b.s.,    No problem.   , > otherwise, I know I can read as others can  L I don't doubt that you can read, Bob, just that you have a clue after havingJ done so.  The article you reproduced is the one I provided a pointer to in! my own post, and explained there.   E The article's author was either snowed or bought off by Intel.  Other ! publications were less credulous:   1 http://www.eetimes.com/semi/news/OEG20030116S0062   1 Intel delays 64-bit processor to re-engineer part    By Mark LaPedus    Semiconductor Business News ! January 17, 2003 (10:34 a.m. EST)   F SANTA CLARA, Calif.--Intel Corp. here today confirmed it has delayed aJ next-generation, 64-bit microprocessor line by one year, after the companyK decided to re-engineer the product. The company also announced a new 64-bit I processor in its roadmap to fill the gap for the delayed chip, code-named 
 Montecito.   ...    - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jan 2003 11:51:22 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)6 Subject: Re: Itanium with alpha goodies on the way ...= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0301181151.541657e2@posting.google.com>   i bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote in message news:<b08upe$m673q$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>... 4 > In article <x4edncBp06Pa2rqjXTWcpQ@metrocast.net>,/ > 	"Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:  > > 9 > > "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message : > > news:d7791aa1.0301160720.bb0b8d5@posting.google.com... > >>
 > >> See Also - > >> Itanic will use Alpha, EV8, SMT features  > > J > > Since you've proved completely ineducable for years now I really don'tP > > expect any of the above to sink in, but it seemed appropriate to clarify theG > > situation for others who might not realize the degree to which your # > > statements are complete drivel.  > >  > E > Somehow, I doubt that anyone here is dumb enough to apply any value ! > to what Bob has to say anymore.  >  > bill  B I may be dumb, but I know how to read which is more than I can sayE for you and Bill Todd ... and if you are so smart why are you running = unix or primos or whatever garbage you are on instead of vms?   Doesn't sound so smart to me ...   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jan 2003 11:56:52 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)6 Subject: Re: Itanium with alpha goodies on the way ...= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0301181156.32000040@posting.google.com>   d "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message news:<x4edncBp06Pa2rqjXTWcpQ@metrocast.net>... > F > I'm afraid you're still just very confused, Bob (and still intent onM > parading your confusion for the world to snicker at).  But at least in this M > case you've got a bit of company, because Mike clearly hasn't had much of a I > clue about when Alpha technology could possibly first show up in Itanic 	 > either.  > & > So I'll set you straight once again: > M > The processor core for Madison, Deerfield, and Montecito is essentially the N > same as McKinley's - absolutely zero Alpha influence there.  The differencesM > between these 4 chips are primarily in the amount of on-chip cache, so zero L > Alpha influence there as well.  The 2005 version of Montecito has now beenN > announced to have dual cores, but with essentially the same system interfaceM > (chip pinout) as all its siblings, so zero Alpha influence there too (I had M > thought 18 or so months ago that Intel might have been able at least to get I > some of the EV7 on-chip glue into its 2005 product, but that would have K > dramatically changed the chip pinout and it now seems you'll have to wait N > yet another generation to see that, let alone any Alpha contributions to the > actual processor core).  > H > Since you've proved completely ineducable for years now I really don'tN > expect any of the above to sink in, but it seemed appropriate to clarify theE > situation for others who might not realize the degree to which your ! > statements are complete drivel.  >  > - bill  A wrong mr genius ... chivano is the alpha iteration, Montecito was ? due out 2007, but is "ahead" of schedule ... if you can read at < a fifth grade level, click on this cnet article and R E A D!  ) http://news.com.com/2100-1001-980898.html    ------------------------------   Date: 18 Jan 2003 20:39:45 GMT( From: nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren)6 Subject: Re: Itanium with alpha goodies on the way ...0 Message-ID: <b0ce2h$36p$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>  = In article <d7791aa1.0301181156.32000040@posting.google.com>, ) Bob Ceculski <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote:  > B >wrong mr genius ... chivano is the alpha iteration, Montecito was@ >due out 2007, but is "ahead" of schedule ... if you can read at= >a fifth grade level, click on this cnet article and R E A D!   F Ah, well.  A certain Mike Fister was quoted as thinking that Montecito7 was due in 2004, but what does he know compared to you?   @ http://www.intel.com/pressroom/archive/releases/20020225corp.htm     Regards, Nick Maclaren,* University of Cambridge Computing Service,> New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QH, England. Email:  nmm1@cam.ac.uk/ Tel.:  +44 1223 334761    Fax:  +44 1223 334679    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 17:12:43 -0400l0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>6 Subject: Re: Itanium with alpha goodies on the way .../ Message-ID: <3E29C33C.D704329F@vl.videotron.ca>    Nick Maclaren wrote:H > Ah, well.  A certain Mike Fister was quoted as thinking that Montecito9 > was due in 2004, but what does he know compared to you?e > B > http://www.intel.com/pressroom/archive/releases/20020225corp.htm  N This is perhaps an interesting strategy. Quietly delay it to 2007 while nobodyF is watching, then, when you need to attract attention to your chip, yoM announce that you have had so much success that you can now move the schedule : ahead by two year an intriduce it in 2005 instead of 2007.  N Intel doesn't have much crediility with IA64 because it has been plagued by soK many delays and poor performance. So this announcement that it can move theiN schedule forwards is probably geared towards giving Inten an image that it canN in fact improve IA64 at a fast pace, even though the whole thing is still late on original predictions.  L A bit like stores that raise prices by 10% and a week later, once folks haveM forgotten about the price hike, the store announces an 8% sale... it is still-  a 2% hike on the original price.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 23:28:53 +0100a2 From: "Ren Schelbaum" <rene.schelbaum@datakom.at>6 Subject: Re: Itanium with alpha goodies on the way ...G Message-ID: <3e29d4fd$0$44258$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at>f  C "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> schrieb im NewsbeitragI) news:3E29C33C.D704329F@vl.videotron.ca...t > Nick Maclaren wrote:J > > Ah, well.  A certain Mike Fister was quoted as thinking that Montecito; > > was due in 2004, but what does he know compared to you?w > >bD > > http://www.intel.com/pressroom/archive/releases/20020225corp.htm >oI > This is perhaps an interesting strategy. Quietly delay it to 2007 while  nobodyH > is watching, then, when you need to attract attention to your chip, yoF > announce that you have had so much success that you can now move the schedule< > ahead by two year an intriduce it in 2005 instead of 2007. >oJ > Intel doesn't have much crediility with IA64 because it has been plagued by soaI > many delays and poor performance. So this announcement that it can movel thedL > schedule forwards is probably geared towards giving Inten an image that it can0K > in fact improve IA64 at a fast pace, even though the whole thing is stilla late > on original predictions. > I > A bit like stores that raise prices by 10% and a week later, once folks) haveI > forgotten about the price hike, the store announces an 8% sale... it ise still9" > a 2% hike on the original price.  ? Well, actually it's only a 1.2% hike (92% of 110% gives 101.2%)c   Ren   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 17:57:48 -0500 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>6 Subject: Re: Itanium with alpha goodies on the way ...2 Message-ID: <lp-cnTzap9xmRrSjXTWc3A@metrocast.net>  = "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in messageo) news:3E29C33C.D704329F@vl.videotron.ca...D   ...   I > This is perhaps an interesting strategy. Quietly delay it to 2007 while  nobodyH > is watching, then, when you need to attract attention to your chip, yoF > announce that you have had so much success that you can now move the schedule< > ahead by two year an intriduce it in 2005 instead of 2007.  K Just in case you weren't being facetious, that's not what happened.  Bob is.J just as clueless as usual:  Montecito was scheduled for 2004, and now justL got slipped to 2005.  It was never scheduled for 2007:  Intel merely claimedE in its attempt to spin the slip as an advance that *the appearance ofcE dual-core Itanics* was scheduled for 2007 (with Chivano, according to L another Intel source) and had now been moved up.  As I noted elsewhere, thatK sounds very much like a lie because back when Montecito was still scheduledSL for 2004 there was a 'bump' (the word 'module' was sometimes used) scheduledK for 2005, and there's nothing else obvious that that 'bump' could have beenaD but the very dual-core version that - lo and behold - is now (still)L scheduled for 2005.  Besides, when you work backward from 2005 to figure outL just when design work on a dual-core Montecito would have to have started inI order to be shipping by then, you find yourself in early 2002 at the veryT latest, more likely in 2001.  F So the sum total of the announcement seems to have been that MontecitoL slipped a year (and the gap will be filled by a slightly faster Madison withJ a cache-size boost), but the previously unannounced dual-core Montecito inL 2005 is still on target for that date and its dual-core nature is now public
 knowledge.   - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Jan 2003 07:15:31 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> Subject: Re: KDA50 in BA123a- Message-ID: <87r8baf3sc.fsf@prep.synonet.com>,  1 chris@applied-synergy.com (Chris Scheers) writes:p  D > The KDA50 is supported in a BA123, but does anyone know if VMS 4.7E > supported it?  (Are the old SPDs available somewhere?)  Since it isnE > a MSCP controller, I assume that it should work at least as well as  > the Dilog.  A From 4.4 or 4.5 on as I remember. It looks the same as a RQDX3 toc  the SW, so you should be sweet.   A > The KDA50-Q User Guide (EK-DKA5Q-UG-002) only shows wiring to auE > bulkhead for connections to external drives.  Was there an internala+ > cable harness (ala MV3500) for the BA123?T  A Yes, about 1M long internal cable. Either a flat 2 way SDI plate,nB or a recessed box for the skunk box top section. The one you want @ has just the black SDI conectors, not the larger socket assy. If@ you are lucky, you may find a socket set that takes the cable in@ a clip in config that you can rememver the cable from to plug it straight into the drive.  B I don't have to remind you to have an ODD number of cables do I :)  C > Finally, can the RA72 operate without an external switch panel orv> > will I need to devise one?  Or better yet, did DEC make one?  D DEC did one for the skunk boxes, I'd be stunned if they did not have one for the BA123.  A No chance you could find a SCSI controller? Be less sweat than an.* RA72 I think. Or younger sweat at least...     -- I< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.s@                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 01:53:02 +0000D) From: Antonio Carlini <arcarlini@iee.org>- Subject: Re: KDA50 in BA123 & Message-ID: <3E2A04FE.7050300@iee.org>   Paul Repacholi wrote:1C > Yes, about 1M long internal cable. Either a flat 2 way SDI plate,eD > or a recessed box for the skunk box top section. The one you want B > has just the black SDI conectors, not the larger socket assy. IfB > you are lucky, you may find a socket set that takes the cable inB > a clip in config that you can rememver the cable from to plug it > straight into the drive.  C My recollection is that the BA213/BA214 config had a KDA50 and thenaC a connector which split out into four SDI cables any of which coulddF be routed either to the external bulkhead or directly to an internally@ mounted RA7x. There's no difficulty in detaching the cables from the internal bulkhead.  B I don't think that the RA7x drives were ever supported in a BA123.B Assuming you find some way of mounting the drive(s) physically and$ routing the cable(s) you'll be fine.  D > I don't have to remind you to have an ODD number of cables do I :)  C Hopefully not - although getting an even number in a BA123 would bet quite a trick!   Antonios     --   --------------- - Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.orgl   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 23:39:03 -0400g0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>$ Subject: MAIL 11 protocol definition/ Message-ID: <3E2A1DD3.2C563C28@vl.videotron.ca>t  I Years ago, I remember having a command procedure one could invoke to sendmD email via DECNET and which could impersonate anyone. The goal was toM document/demonstrate the MAIL-11 protocol between nodes (the procedure didn'tiE invoke MAIL, it just wrote to a decnet link to a remote mail server).u  K Unfortunatly, with lack of hindsight, I delete the file... Now, I'd like toUN have it or an equivalent so I can better understand the protocol and hopefully" see some of the flags definitions.  M Does anyone know of that command procedure or good definitions of the MAIL 11C protocol at the DECNET level ?   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 00:34:27 GMT0. From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)# Subject: Re: MOP with Multiple NICse2 Message-ID: <nomW9.59161$TY.559553@news.chello.at>  L In article <3E24354A.F14CC6D7@sosu.edu>, Dan Moore <dmoore@sosu.edu> writes:' >--------------51921EDAE2334E677DEBDD56o+ >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-asciiA  >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit  1 Please don't use MIME. USENET is plain text only.i  9 >   How do you bind MOPDL to an additional ethernet card?s >yP >  We have just installed a DS25 and had to move LAT  (using LAT$DEVICE logical)K >to another ethernet card because network performance was terrible comparediQ >to the system we replaced. I think we essentially had go-carts (old lat devices) H >getting creamed on the freeway (by 100mbit ip). There may still be someU >residual issues, but for now, I need to know how to bind mopdl to the EIA0 interfacep> >so our dec servers will boot if for some reason they go down.  J If you run DECnet-Plus, then simply do not enable the related MOP function on the ethernet adaptero  7 eg.	my SYS$STARTUP:NET$MOP_CIRCUIT_STARTUP.NCL containsg  J NCL> ENABLE MOP CIRCUIT ISA-0 FUNCTIONS { CONS R, DUMP S, LOAD S, LOOP R }  * which binds the MOPDL to the EZA0: (ISA-0)  I If you run DECnet Phase 4, then also do not enable service on the circuitl  * NCP> DEFINE CIRCUIT EIA-0 SERVICE DISABLED  G I never tried to use LANCP, but I'm pretty sure there it is similar. Do G not enable the functionality where you don't want it. It is most likely- not enabled by default.9  F BUT: I don't think that a terrible network performance can be cured byG removing MOP. MOP doesn't do much traffic (except a SET HOST/MOP in Ph52I or CONNECT NODE in Ph4). Your story sounds like a typical autonegotiationF
 problem...   -- e Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERn% Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 23:20:51 +0000 (UTC)v- From: "Rob Heyes" <rob.heyes@btopenworld.com>u7 Subject: Re: Network Time Protocol (NTP) for OpenVMS ??h/ Message-ID: <b0cngj$bho$1@venus.btinternet.com>a  L I synchronize our Alphas time with our Domain Controller. Admittedly NT isnt< atomic nor do the Intel boxes keep as accurate as the Alpha.    ? "Martin Vorlaender" <martin@radiogaga.harz.de> wrote in messages5 news:3e294c05.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de... , > Paul Sture (p_sture@elias.decus.ch) wrote:I > > Also, are you running DECnet Plus? By default, that also enables DTSScI > > (time services), but also by default does little more than adjust thee > > clock twice a year.  >cI > As I recently got bitten by that: by default, only the DTSS *client* isuB > installed. You must change the PCSI defaults to install the DTSS3 > *server* (which requires an extra license, IIRC).p >s > cu,o
 >   Martin > --H >                           | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer5 >  Cetero censeo            | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deuH >  Redmondem delendam esse. |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/< >                           | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Jan 2003 06:55:39 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>7 Subject: Re: Network Time Protocol (NTP) for OpenVMS ?? - Message-ID: <87vg0mf4pg.fsf@prep.synonet.com>d  H lederman@star.enet.dec.DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL.com (Bart Z. Lederman) writes:  F > Many of the systems here within HP, at least in OpenVMS Engineering,F > use NTP to synchronize the time.  I've set up my personal system and' > most of my group's systems to use it.r  hE > It's built into TCP/IP for OpenVMS, which is what we use.  (I'm not-E > sure how far back you can go with TCP/IP or UCX and still have NTP,HF > but it's certainly been included for several years.)  It should show. > up in the regular menues in TCPIP$CONFIG.COM   VMS has finally got a V4 NTP!   < if you browse ntp.org, you will find a list of time servers.; A coupple of lists in fact. Be aware that every windoze box = in existance tries beating on the first 2 or 3. Network close.6 is good, close being delay to the chimer. Pick several* for a local server or two and away you go.   -- V< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.0@                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 13:43:49 +0100 2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)7 Subject: Re: Network Time Protocol (NTP) for OpenVMS ?? ; Message-ID: <3e294c05.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>0  * Paul Sture (p_sture@elias.decus.ch) wrote:G > Also, are you running DECnet Plus? By default, that also enables DTSS G > (time services), but also by default does little more than adjust theg > clock twice a year.0  G As I recently got bitten by that: by default, only the DTSS *client* isn@ installed. You must change the PCSI defaults to install the DTSS1 *server* (which requires an extra license, IIRC)..   cu,n   Martin --  F                           | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer3  Cetero censeo            | work: mv@pdv-systeme.denF  Redmondem delendam esse. |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/:                           | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Jan 2003 07:21:55 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>& Subject: Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth- Message-ID: <87n0lyf3ho.fsf@prep.synonet.com>t  ) SkyWriter <skywriter@mrnutty.com> writes:o  D > sure, but it was really only imporant for the H761, and the MF20 &F > power supply.  I dont' think the unibus cages were gonna tip a 20 :)  ? If you have just the CPU cab, or the IO cab with out the othersh9 bolted to them, then swinging out the memory or regulatort frame can get exciting...n   -- ,< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.c@                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 05:23:44 GMTe' From: SkyWriter <skywriter@mrnutty.com> & Subject: Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth+ Message-ID: <3E2A600E.AA32CF1D@mrnutty.com>s   Paul Repacholi wrote:i  + > SkyWriter <skywriter@mrnutty.com> writes:  >oF > > sure, but it was really only imporant for the H761, and the MF20 &H > > power supply.  I dont' think the unibus cages were gonna tip a 20 :) > A > If you have just the CPU cab, or the IO cab with out the othersF; > bolted to them, then swinging out the memory or regulatorr > frame can get exciting...m >x  D we never managed to tip one in manufacturing. but i did blow an H760F by sitting on it once :-) it was pretty cold in FAT in the winter, andH you have to find warmth somewhere.... needless to say, i got a firsthand< lesson in the replacement proceedure! (cherry pick required)   >l > --> > Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,9 > +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.iB >                                              West Australia 6076, > comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot0 > Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.H > EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.037 ************************