0 INFO-VAX	Tue, 21 Jan 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 42      Contents:* Re: *** DANGER, Will Robinson! DANGER! ***4 Re: Access linux and/or windows directories with vms Alpha for HP UX ? 2 Re: Alpha, Itanic and Opteron benchmark comparison- AlphaServer users given lifeline till Itanium 1 RE: AlphaServer users given lifeline till Itanium & Re: Compiling Mozilla on OpenVMS 7.3-11 Re: DECLASER 3500 Treiber zu WIN XP oder WIN 2000 1 RE: DECLASER 3500 Treiber zu WIN XP oder WIN 2000 1 RE: DECLASER 3500 Treiber zu WIN XP oder WIN 2000 1 Re: DECLASER 3500 Treiber zu WIN XP oder WIN 2000  Re: DECnet-Plus vs DECnet IV2 Re: EV7 hits, blows away Sun, IBM, 2-3x VMS gains! Re: How to Backup OSX  Re: How to Backup OSX  Re: How to Backup OSX  Re: How to Backup OSX  Re: How to Backup OSX  Re: How to Backup OSX - Re: HP Sets the Stage for Alpha's Last Hurrah  Re: Is that possible- Re: Itanium with alpha goodies on the way ...  Re: Marvel Performance Re: Marvel Performance' Re: MicroVAX upgrade (to Alpha, maybe?)  Multinet FTP Question  Re: Multinet FTP Question  Re: Multinet FTP Question . RE: Network Time Protocol (NTP) for OpenVMS ?? NIST Servers and ACTS ' Re: NO-IP Dynamic DNS Client for OpenVM $ NO-IP Dynamic DNS Client for OpenVMS) Re: OKIdata ML 320 Control Codes from VMS ) Re: OKIdata ML 320 Control Codes from VMS  OpenVMS Itanium and VMWareP Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marveland  Alpha RetaP Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marveland Alpha Retai+ Re: Oracle LMON and LMDO buffered I/O usage 7 Plextor CD-R Plexwriter PX-C412Ci and OpenVMS questions ; Re: Plextor CD-R Plexwriter PX-C412Ci and OpenVMS questions ; Re: Plextor CD-R Plexwriter PX-C412Ci and OpenVMS questions < Re:  Plextor CD-R Plexwriter PX-C412Ci and OpenVMS questions; Re: Plextor CD-R Plexwriter PX-C412Ci and OpenVMS questions / Re: Recovering from deleted .PCSI$DATABASE file ) Standards for sending of VMS binary files P Re: TCPIP: pseudo-interface: 2 IP addresses on 1 VMS system with 1 ethernet cardP Re: TCPIP: pseudo-interface: 2 IP addresses on 1 VMS system with 1 ethernet cardP Re: TCPIP: pseudo-interface: 2 IP addresses on 1 VMS system with 1 ethernet cardC Technical Data for AlphaServer ES47, ES80, and GS1280 available ... N Re: Technical Data for AlphaServer ES47, ES80, and GS1280 available ... ......F Re: Technical Data for AlphaServer ES47, ES80, and GS1280 available...  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 09:58:59 -0600 ( From: David Harrold <DHarrold@wi.rr.com>3 Subject: Re: *** DANGER, Will Robinson! DANGER! *** 8 Message-ID: <pcrq2vk7pp7s4ukelugi43qd2g9njvtj0a@4ax.com>  M On 20 Jan 2003 16:13:03 -0600, cornelius@encompasserve.org (George Cornelius)  wrote:  _ >In article <OF292D438A.B7AB89FF-ON85256CB0.0063F33C@metso.com>, norm.raphael@metso.com writes: 0 >>    Press RETURN to continue, q RETURN to quit- >> ***     DANGER, Will Robinson! DANGER! *** < >>         operator new failure: insufficient virtual memoryN >> %SYSTEM-F-OPCCUS, opcode reserved to customer fault at PC=FFFFFFFF80A3E434, >> PS=0000001B >>  5 >>   Improperly handled condition, image exit forced.  > A >Yep, a cutsie message from the developer [see attached listing].   : Boy, those DSNlink engineers where having too much fun....    ) $ search dsn$root:[000000...]*.exe monkey    ******************************, DSN$ROOT:[000000.LIB.ALPHA]DSNSHARE030.EXE;1   [...] 5 <NUL>Monkey dust found whilst authenticating you<NUL>  [...] + <NUL>Monkey dust found in YOUR options<NUL>   G I also recall one from the netex command (I think) about a "Monkey Dust 1 Framitzer"  but couldn't find it in the images...    Dave  N ..............................................................................N David Harrold                              E-Mail: David_Harrold at aurora.orgI Sr. Software Systems Engineer              Phone:          (414) 647-6204 I                                            Pager:          (414) 941-4634 G Aurora Health Care                         Fax:          (414) 647-4999  3031 W. Montana Street Milwaukee, WI 53215    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 08:41:29 +0100 = From: "Franz-Jrgen Tollmann" <tollmann@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de> = Subject: Re: Access linux and/or windows directories with vms ) Message-ID: <3e2cf9a9$1@uni-wuerzburg.de>   ; "Alder" <TFTAJLLYMXZP@spammotel.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag 6 news:a6840bf2.0301191835.1460bfa@posting.google.com...3 > fdc@columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) wrote in message  > L > > Remember we are talking about PCs with Windows and a VMS server.  Kermit 95F > > for Windows supports the following secure TCP/IP connection types: > >   > >  . SSL/TLS terminal sessions4 > >  . Telnet, FTP, and HTTP secured with SSL or TLSE > >  . Telnet, Rlogin, and FTP secured with Kerberos IV or Kerberos V & > >  . Telnet and FTP secured with SRP > >  . SSH v1 terminal sessions  > >  . SSH v2 terminal sessions  > > J > > Thus you can use practically any kind of security that is installed on VMS. > H > I for one have no aversion to using a Windows telnet client capable ofB > using Kerberos authentication and TLS encryption to connect fromD > Windows to VMS.  Trouble is, what server options are available forC > VMS?  This is a hobbyist talking, so freeware is what I'd prefer. 	 > Anyone?    Right!!!   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 13:21:13 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> Subject: Alpha for HP UX ?/ Message-ID: <3E2D8187.B1FAF10B@vl.videotron.ca>   H With many HP UX customers formerly Digital customers who defected in theL 1990s, what percentage of the HP UX customer base would prefer HP UX migrate% to Alpha intead of that Intel thing ?   L Would the head of the legacy department (Alpha, Tru64, VMS) have the ability0 to conduct some polling of HP-UX customer base ?  L While there is still a chance that Intel may not abandon IA64, and there mayJ still be a chance that IA64 might be able to keep up with the competition,L nobody expects IA64 to become commodity, which was the main reason for going that route in the first place.  M Right now would be a great time for HP to relieve Intel of its IA64 shackles, H and adopt Alpha for high end systems, and stick with the 8086 for wintelQ stuff, with Intel then releasing a competitor to Hammer in the 8086 architecture.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 13:35:01 -0500 A From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star-dot-zko-dot-dec-dot-com> ; Subject: Re: Alpha, Itanic and Opteron benchmark comparison , Message-ID: <3e2d92d7_2@hpb10302.boi.hp.com>  0 "Arne Vajhj" <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote in message# news:3E283E78.1050507@vajhoej.dk...  > Bill Gunshannon wrote:5 >  > In article <01C2BD52.CCA02350@sulfer.icius.com>, + >  > Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> writes: ' >  >>It's labeled SAP SD @ tier, 4 way:  >  >> $ >  >>HPServer rx5670 Itanium 2   470$ >  >>Alpha Server ES45           426$ >  >>Proliant DL590 Itanium      206$ >  >>IBM xSeries 440             330$ >  >>AMD Opteron 1.6ghz        ca600 > 6 >  >                  In any case, even at only 500 it >  > beat all the competitors. >   B Revisit the link, it appears to have been fixed/updated/corrected:  4 http://www.heise.de/newsticker/data/as-16.01.03-002/  I The rx5670 (1GHz) is at 600, and the Opteron (1.6GHz) is at 550.  The 600 I estimate, from what I'm told exceeds the 2 second cutoff, at 1.9s it gets  550.   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Jan 2003 07:28:17 -0800( From: baby_p_nut@yahoo.com (Baby Peanut)6 Subject: AlphaServer users given lifeline till Itanium< Message-ID: <c5cf6e8.0301210728.2cc621a4@posting.google.com>  6 http://news.zdnet.co.uk/story/0,,t269-s2129026,00.html  - AlphaServer users given lifeline till Itanium  09:45 Tuesday 21st January 2003  Peter Judge   @ ENSA@Work 2003: Users of HP's AlphaServer range have seven yearsE before they have to move to Itanium. In return, they have the promise > of blades and super-sized servers. And OpenVMS is not dead yet  6 Three new AlphaServers launched at ENSA@Work underline: Hewlett-Packard's promise to continue supporting the AlphaD architecture -- and the OpenVMS operating system which runs on it --C on the tenth anniversary of the first Alpha processor's debut. Even E so, they mark the beginning of the end for the processor range, which 5 will ultimately be replaced by Intel Itanium systems.   A "We will continue developing new AlphaServers till 2006, and will D support the products till 2011," said Carly Fiorina, chief executiveE of HP. Alpha was developed by Digital Equipment, which was taken over D by Compaq before that company in turn was taken over by HP. However,D Alpha remains the company's leading RISC processor, the others beingF HP's home-grown PA-RISC chip and the MIPS processor used in the Tandem! NonStop systems bought by Compaq.   ? The three new servers, based on the latest EV7 Alpha processor, ? include the GS1280 for enterprise use and the ES80 and ES47 for F departments and workgroups respectively. GS1280 is available in eight-D and 16-processor versions now, with 32-processor versions due in mid7 2003, and 64-processor versions due by the end of 2003.   B EV7 is designed for multiprocessing, with system interconnects andF other electronics built onto the chip itself, said worldwide marketingB manager John Bennett. This will allow a supercomputer version, the$ SC1280, to go up to 2000 processors.  A HP's Digital-heritage operating systems, Tru64 (version 5.1B) and ? OpenVMS, will both get better performance on the new processor: ? "OpenVMS version 7.3-1 will gain by 100-200 percent," said John 3 Bennett of HP's Business Critical Systems division.   = "The new systems are critical to meet the capacity demands of @ customers for the next two years, so they can manage the move to, Itanium when they are ready," Bennett added.  D Meanwhile, elements of the Digital-heritage Tru64 Unix will be addedD to HP's own HP-UX version of Unix, in particular the file system andB single system image, both important for clustering -- an advantage* that Digital had over HP for a long while.  F "Oracle has also taken clustering technology from us, and they will goB into HP UX not just on Itanium," said HP's Ken Surplice. "ClustersA will work with PA RISC, as well as older system including Digital ? Vaxes. Users will be able to mix all three architectures in one 	 cluster."   F At the same time, the OpenVMS operating system is not going away, saidE Bennett. "By 2005 we will have OpenVMS on Itanium as a product. There D will be a version for early adopters, with complete functionality byE the end of 2004." This OpenVMS version will not be binary compatible,  but will have translaters.  F Comparing this strategy with IBM's iSeries, which is being promoted onB IBM's own RISC processor, Bennett said: "IBM is very successful inE keeping the OS/400 platform alive and well, but each year, they put a D box round that product. OpenVMS customers see this move [to Itanium]D as a liberation. They can keep everything they have preserved and goD forward. Customer had good performance on a low marketshare platformF with Alpha. Concerns about the viability of the platform will go away,8 and we do not have to prolong the life of the hardware."  C Future OpenVMS systems will run on the same general purpose Itanium B servers as other HP systems, he said, with the prospect of OpenVMS running on blade servers.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 07:28:42 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> : Subject: RE: AlphaServer users given lifeline till Itanium9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIMEDMGHAA.tom@kednos.com>    >-----Original Message----- 0 >From: Baby Peanut [mailto:baby_p_nut@yahoo.com]( >Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 7:28 AM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com7 >Subject: AlphaServer users given lifeline till Itanium  >  > 7 >http://news.zdnet.co.uk/story/0,,t269-s2129026,00.html  > . >AlphaServer users given lifeline till Itanium  >09:45 Tuesday 21st January 2003
 >Peter Judge   > A >ENSA@Work 2003: Users of HP's AlphaServer range have seven years F >before they have to move to Itanium. In return, they have the promise? >of blades and super-sized servers. And OpenVMS is not dead yet  > 7 >Three new AlphaServers launched at ENSA@Work underline ; >Hewlett-Packard's promise to continue supporting the Alpha E >architecture -- and the OpenVMS operating system which runs on it -- D >on the tenth anniversary of the first Alpha processor's debut. EvenF >so, they mark the beginning of the end for the processor range, which6 >will ultimately be replaced by Intel Itanium systems. > B >"We will continue developing new AlphaServers till 2006, and willE >support the products till 2011," said Carly Fiorina, chief executive F >of HP. Alpha was developed by Digital Equipment, which was taken overE >by Compaq before that company in turn was taken over by HP. However, E >Alpha remains the company's leading RISC processor, the others being G >HP's home-grown PA-RISC chip and the MIPS processor used in the Tandem " >NonStop systems bought by Compaq. > @ >The three new servers, based on the latest EV7 Alpha processor,@ >include the GS1280 for enterprise use and the ES80 and ES47 forG >departments and workgroups respectively. GS1280 is available in eight- E >and 16-processor versions now, with 32-processor versions due in mid 8 >2003, and 64-processor versions due by the end of 2003. > C >EV7 is designed for multiprocessing, with system interconnects and G >other electronics built onto the chip itself, said worldwide marketing C >manager John Bennett. This will allow a supercomputer version, the % >SC1280, to go up to 2000 processors.  > B >HP's Digital-heritage operating systems, Tru64 (version 5.1B) and@ >OpenVMS, will both get better performance on the new processor:@ >"OpenVMS version 7.3-1 will gain by 100-200 percent," said John4 >Bennett of HP's Business Critical Systems division. > > >"The new systems are critical to meet the capacity demands ofA >customers for the next two years, so they can manage the move to - >Itanium when they are ready," Bennett added.  > E >Meanwhile, elements of the Digital-heritage Tru64 Unix will be added E >to HP's own HP-UX version of Unix, in particular the file system and C >single system image, both important for clustering -- an advantage + >that Digital had over HP for a long while.  > G >"Oracle has also taken clustering technology from us, and they will go C >into HP UX not just on Itanium," said HP's Ken Surplice. "Clusters B >will work with PA RISC, as well as older system including Digital@ >Vaxes. Users will be able to mix all three architectures in one
 >cluster."  6 He must have misspoken here, since this excludes Alpha   > G >At the same time, the OpenVMS operating system is not going away, said F >Bennett. "By 2005 we will have OpenVMS on Itanium as a product. ThereE >will be a version for early adopters, with complete functionality by F >the end of 2004." This OpenVMS version will not be binary compatible, >but will have translaters.  > G >Comparing this strategy with IBM's iSeries, which is being promoted on C >IBM's own RISC processor, Bennett said: "IBM is very successful in F >keeping the OS/400 platform alive and well, but each year, they put aE >box round that product. OpenVMS customers see this move [to Itanium] E >as a liberation. They can keep everything they have preserved and go E >forward. Customer had good performance on a low marketshare platform G >with Alpha. Concerns about the viability of the platform will go away, 9 >and we do not have to prolong the life of the hardware."  > D >Future OpenVMS systems will run on the same general purpose ItaniumC >servers as other HP systems, he said, with the prospect of OpenVMS  >running on blade servers. >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). B >Version: 6.0.435 / Virus Database: 244 - Release Date: 12/30/2002 >  --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A Version: 6.0.435 / Virus Database: 244 - Release Date: 12/30/2002    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 00:51:31 GMT ' From: Colin Blake <colin@theblakes.com> / Subject: Re: Compiling Mozilla on OpenVMS 7.3-1 , Message-ID: <3E2C997A.7050807@theblakes.com>   Saku Setala wrote:   >Hi all, > B >some time ago I remember looking into a document which instructed- >how to compile mozilla source under OpenVMS.  > ; >Now I can't locate this document anymore, does anyone have 
 >pointers? > H The information is on the OpenVMS web site, but you're out of luck with H V7.3-1. The current build system requires POSIX and that doesn't run on I V7.3-1. We are in the process of moving the build to GNV and then you'll   be able to build on V7.3-1.    ------------------------------   Date: 21 Jan 2003 13:37:52 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon): Subject: Re: DECLASER 3500 Treiber zu WIN XP oder WIN 20005 Message-ID: <b0jifg$q8eji$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>   - Not wanting to start a flamewar, but.........   3 In article <FBtL+kZ5PYCP@eisner.encompasserve.org>, > 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:[ > In article <3e2c4f82$1_2@news.bluewin.ch>, "Andr Zwygart" <trash.can@bluewin.ch> writes:  > 6 >    The primary language for this group is English.    A I was waiting for the first comment like this I saw. Why am I not D surprised it came from the US??  Why do so many people (particularlyA in the US) believe that if you can't speak (or write) english you ? whould be excluded from the use of USENET??  There actually are A people here (including in the US) who can understand his question 
 perfectly.  D >                                                    My German isn'tC >    nearly good enough for technical work, this is what I get from  >    freetranslation.com:  >> >>Hello together,  >>9 >>would have some problems with my Printer DECLASER 3500. ? >>If pictures are printed, there is always paper obstruction if H >>however only documents are printed, functions the printer flawlessly. 5 >>Would think that the driver makes these problems.    >>J >>Does someone have in addition experiences or a printer driver for and to( >>above-mentioned operating systems???   > 0 >    I really doubt you have a software problem.  G I agree,  I also would suspect the problem is related to how much toner , gets put on the page when printing pictures.  E Now, if you were going to answer his question anyway, why the comment C above complaining about his use of German?  Doesn't that come under : the same catagory as coplaining about someone's spelling??   bill     --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 05:48:26 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> : Subject: RE: DECLASER 3500 Treiber zu WIN XP oder WIN 20009 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIAEDJGHAA.tom@kednos.com>   J Diese Gruppe hat nichts mit W2K xu tun. Die Auskuenft das Du suchst kannstF Du wahrscheinlich beim http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?LN=EN4 finden. Da gibts verschieden treibers zu unterladen.   >-----Original Message----- 2 >From: Andr Zwygart [mailto:trash.can@bluewin.ch]( >Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 11:35 AM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com7 >Subject: DECLASER 3500 Treiber zu WIN XP oder WIN 2000  >  >  >Hallo zusammen, > L >Habe einige Probleme mit meinem Printer DECLASER 3500. Wenn Bilder gedrucktL >werden, so gibt es immer Papierstau, wenn jedoch nur Schriftstcke gedrucktI >werden, so funktioniert der Drucker einwandfrei. Denke, dass der Treiber  >diese Probleme macht. > F >Hat Jemand dazu Erfahrungen oder ein Druckertreiber fr und zu obigen >Betriebssystemen??? >  >  >vielen Dank >Andr > L >PS. Bitte nur hier antworten. Habe schlechte Erfahrungen gemacht mit SPAM!! >  >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). B >Version: 6.0.435 / Virus Database: 244 - Release Date: 12/30/2002 >  --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A Version: 6.0.435 / Virus Database: 244 - Release Date: 12/30/2002    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 05:54:46 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> : Subject: RE: DECLASER 3500 Treiber zu WIN XP oder WIN 20009 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIMEDJGHAA.tom@kednos.com>   6 meinte http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?LN=DE   >-----Original Message----- ) >From: Tom Linden [mailto:tom@kednos.com] ( >Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 5:48 AM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com; >Subject: RE: DECLASER 3500 Treiber zu WIN XP oder WIN 2000  >  > K >Diese Gruppe hat nichts mit W2K xu tun. Die Auskuenft das Du suchst kannst  >Du wahrscheinlich beim 5 >finden. Da gibts verschieden treibers zu unterladen.  >  >>-----Original Message-----3 >>From: Andr Zwygart [mailto:trash.can@bluewin.ch] ) >>Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 11:35 AM  >>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 8 >>Subject: DECLASER 3500 Treiber zu WIN XP oder WIN 2000 >> >> >>Hallo zusammen,  >>= >>Habe einige Probleme mit meinem Printer DECLASER 3500. Wenn  >Bilder gedruckt6 >>werden, so gibt es immer Papierstau, wenn jedoch nur >Schriftstcke gedruckt J >>werden, so funktioniert der Drucker einwandfrei. Denke, dass der Treiber >>diese Probleme macht.  >>G >>Hat Jemand dazu Erfahrungen oder ein Druckertreiber fr und zu obigen  >>Betriebssystemen???  >> >>
 >>vielen Dank  >>Andr  >>B >>PS. Bitte nur hier antworten. Habe schlechte Erfahrungen gemacht >mit SPAM!!  >> >> >>--- ( >>Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.< >>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).C >>Version: 6.0.435 / Virus Database: 244 - Release Date: 12/30/2002  >> >---' >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). B >Version: 6.0.435 / Virus Database: 244 - Release Date: 12/30/2002 >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). B >Version: 6.0.435 / Virus Database: 244 - Release Date: 12/30/2002 >  --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A Version: 6.0.435 / Virus Database: 244 - Release Date: 12/30/2002    ------------------------------    Date: 21 Jan 2003 12:45:09 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) : Subject: Re: DECLASER 3500 Treiber zu WIN XP oder WIN 20003 Message-ID: <1cf3uCrMFRtL@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ` In article <b0jifg$q8eji$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:  C > I was waiting for the first comment like this I saw. Why am I not F > surprised it came from the US??  Why do so many people (particularlyC > in the US) believe that if you can't speak (or write) english you A > whould be excluded from the use of USENET??  There actually are C > people here (including in the US) who can understand his question  > perfectly.  H    If the primary language of this newsgroup was German and he posted inF    English I would have expected a similar reply.  If I was posting inG    a German language newsgroup, writing to a letter to a German editor, F    or simply holding a conversation in Germany I would expect it would4    be up to me to provide the information in German.  G > Now, if you were going to answer his question anyway, why the comment E > above complaining about his use of German?  Doesn't that come under < > the same catagory as coplaining about someone's spelling??  E    You won't hear that one from me.  Everyone knows I can't spell and     type at the same time.     N    You'll note I could have, but didn't translate the answer back to German.  M    Folks who post to and read USENET do so to exchange information.  We need  J    to follow a standard in order for or that exchange to work and in this J    group that standard is English.  We also follow a standard for writing H    those posts using ASCII and connecting to USENET servers using a wellE    defined protocol on top of TCP/IP.  Posting in German or EBCDIC or E    trying to access the server via DECnet doesn't get the information =    across as well as posting in English and ASCII via TCP/IP.    ------------------------------    Date: 21 Jan 2003 06:02:45 -08001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) % Subject: Re: DECnet-Plus vs DECnet IV = Message-ID: <cf15391e.0301210602.3ae76dec@posting.google.com>   a Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote in message news:<87wul3ly13.fsf@prep.synonet.com>... 2 > Lyndon Bartels <lbartels@pressenter.com> writes:G > > I want to add a second pair if NICS to my servers. Retain TCP/IP on C > > the "public" (read "current") network paths. Create a "private" F > > network for DECnet, and eventually SCS traffic. This will make the > > network guys happy.  >   0 > > BUT.... I have to have everything redundant. >   G > > I was told by CSC that in order to accomplish this, I'd need DECnet 	 > > Plus.  > D > CSC are full of obtainium! You can not have the 2  NICs on the oneC > logical segment, but multiple interfaces has worked fine for only  > 25 years now...  > 5 > (you do need a full function decnet licence though)   B No, multi-homed End Nodes work with a DECnet End Node license -- aB Full Function license is not required.  (Colin Butcher had all theC right answers in his reply.)  You can have multiple NICs with Phase F IV, all STATE ON at once (although only one at a time actually carriesB traffic, failover is automatic) provided the NICs are connected to< separate extended LANs (to avoid problems with duplicate MAC? addresses), and the separate extended LANs have a DECnet router D somewhere connecting them (not a bridge).  That router need not be a VMS system.    ------------------------------    Date: 21 Jan 2003 10:32:51 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski); Subject: Re: EV7 hits, blows away Sun, IBM, 2-3x VMS gains! = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0301211032.426e6904@posting.google.com>   m "Mark E. Levy" <mlevy70@attbi.com> wrote in message news:<YV3X9.26306$4u5.12798@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>... ? > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message + > news:3E2CA183.58C25309@vl.videotron.ca...  > J > > Consider this: that ____vms.org web site also has a copy of HP's pressM > > release. Is it considered breach of copyright if I were to take the press L > > release from his web site and post it here ? How about if I took it from >  HP's ! > > web site and posted it here ?  > I > By nature, press releases are for general release, that's why they were M > released to the press to begin with. I'm sure HP or any other company would H > be happy for you to distribute their press releases any way you'd likeK > (assuming that you don't alter them in any way). I'm not sure Terry would  > feel the same. > I > > Nobody makes money from cov, so the material here is just a forum for I > > discussions. Not very different than the chinese who put up copies of < > > newspapers on city walls for people to read and discuss. > G > Not the same. Those newspapers were probably purchased prior to being J > posted. Granted, someone who can read a posted paper doesn't have to buyL > one, thus depriving the publisher of revenue. A better comparison would beK > for someone to copy one of those posted papers and post the copies around : > town, thus depriving the publisher of even more revenue. > K > Another issue, do you think Terry would like to be associated with Bob in 
 > any way? >  > ML  = Terry is trying to do what I am also ... promote VMS ... what ; are you, a windoze/linux idiot?  I am not attemping to make ; money from this, I have posted a article available for free 7 on a free discussion board ... that is called the first * ammendment ... you must be a communist ...   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 10:50:51 GMT % From: Tony Lawrence <tony@pcunix.com>  Subject: Re: How to Backup OSX- Message-ID: <fC9X9.68244$Yq3.14360@sccrnsc02>    Howard S Shubs wrote: / > In article <Lj%W9.71429$1q3.10159@sccrnsc01>, ) >  Tony Lawrence <tony@pcunix.com> wrote:  >  > I >>I have no idea what you are referring to.  Many businesses have a 8 to  G >>16 hour window in which to do backup.  If their entire system can be  @ >>backed up to removable media in that time frame, they are not  >>constrained by space or time.  >  > G > In my experience, this is vanishingly rare.  Most people like to get  H > home rather than watch tapes spin, even if they can take down time in " > order to get a nice cold backup. >     C You have to be kidding me.  Your "experience" can't amount to much.   E Who sits and watches tapes spin?  Cron jobs do the whole thing - the  F backup, the verify, the printing or emailing of results.  Even paging + people if need be.  What are computers for?   H Even in places where there is no real down time, there is ordinarily no I human involvement.  For example, we might set backups to happpen twice a  I day.  At 15 minutes before backup, people get an email or a screen flash  E reminding them that they will have to close out for a few minutes at  E whatever time has been set.  When that time comes, the system checks  H that everybody is out, and then nags if they aren't, and finally ejects F them forcibly if necessary.  Then the snapshot is made (for those who H don't know what that is, see http://aplawrence.com/Linux/lvm.html ) and H people can get back on.  The backup then begins.  The whole thing takes G but a few minutes, and most of that is the nagging.  More important is  < that every bit of it is automatic, untouched by human hands.         --  
 Tony Lawrence , Free SCO, Mac OS X and  Linux Skills Tests: % http://aplawrence.com/skillstest.html    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 13:09:39 GMT % From: Tony Lawrence <tony@pcunix.com>  Subject: Re: How to Backup OSX? Message-ID: <mEbX9.648345$GR5.448636@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>    Howard S Shubs wrote: / > In article <Lj%W9.71429$1q3.10159@sccrnsc01>, ) >  Tony Lawrence <tony@pcunix.com> wrote:  >  > I >>I have no idea what you are referring to.  Many businesses have a 8 to  G >>16 hour window in which to do backup.  If their entire system can be  @ >>backed up to removable media in that time frame, they are not  >>constrained by space or time.  >  > G > In my experience, this is vanishingly rare.  Most people like to get  H > home rather than watch tapes spin, even if they can take down time in " > order to get a nice cold backup. >     I I must be an idiot.  I've been arguing with you about the relative value  H of backup methods and you obviously are so wet behind the ears that you ! think people do backups manually.   A I've been involved with computers since 1967, and have been self  G employed since 1983.  I have done work at thousands of sites, from one  I person offices to Fidelity.  I'm certified in Solaris, SCO, and Windows.  0     Enterprise level, not product, by the way : ( http://aplawrence.com/certification.html  G (I don't normally put this kind of stuff up on the bar for measurement  0 but this foolishness has just gone on too long).  G Now tell me what in hell makes you think that anything you have to say  H should be given any weight at all?  I really don't mean to be offensive A here, but this "Ivory Tower" crap coming from someone so plainly  ' inexperienced has really ticked me off.   G I make my living doing this.  Do you?  I work with dozens of different  D backup systems from tape to dvd to jukeboxes.  Do you?  I work with H multiple backup software, from tar and cpio to Arcserve and beyond.  Do I you?  I have performed HUNDREDS of disk recoveries, rebuilds, reinstalls  H   and upgrades on multiple OS platforms from TRSDOS to Microsoft Xenix, 4 DOS, Windows NT, SCO, Solaris, and Linux.  Have you?  I I'm sorry to get so rabid.  I'm willing to at least respect the opinions  I of someone like the VMS admin who posted earlier, though I disagree with  D his reliance on a database based incremental backup.  I'm no longer 5 willing to give any respect to your opinions on this.    Sorry for the rant.    "In your experience" indeed.   -- 0
 Tony Lawrence , Free SCO, Mac OS X and  Linux Skills Tests: % http://aplawrence.com/skillstest.htmld   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 13:35:54 GMTo% From: Tony Lawrence <tony@pcunix.com>r Subject: Re: How to Backup OSX/ Message-ID: <_0cX9.770577$P31.567195@rwcrnsc53>    Rob Young wrote:W > In article <o4ZW9.62086$Yq3.12889@sccrnsc02>, Tony Lawrence <tony@pcunix.com> writes:0 >  >>Rob Young wrote: >  > G >>>	Picking a file at random, one created in 1999, you can see when it   >>>	was last backed up:N >>> ? >>>$ abc show backup site$disk:[username.routines]TST_AA_IF.TXT,> >>>Archive Backup Client for ADSM on OpenVMS, Version V3.1.0.1; >>>Copyright 1996-2001, Storage Solutions Specialists, Inc.BQ >>>DISK$SITE_USERS:[USERS.USERNAME.ROUTINES]TST_AA_IF.TXT;1 (A) 6097 20-SEP-2001   >>> 10:40:43 >>>eH >>>	Last backed up over a year and a half ago.  I know I can restore it,= >>>	as the database/tapepool containing it is fault-tolerant.  >>  >>A year and a half ago????????? >>
 >>No comment.  >> >  > @ > 	Backed up then, and still available today.  In other words, IE > 	could restore it right now, in less than 2 minutes if I wanted to.i= > 	Remember, I said that it is like backing up to a database.  >  >  >>>	So, I disagree with this:f >>>M >>>p >>> L >>>>once a year, if that, but I've seen the problems with differentials and K >>>>incrementals and I DO NOT RECOMMEND THEIR USE UNLESS IT IS UNAVOIDABLE.e >>>M >>>aF >>>	You have a poor backup solution in use, would be my first guess as/ >>>	to why you so strongly oppose incrementals.e >>>x
 >>>				Rob >>>e >> >>F >>Let me ask YOU a question:  which do you think is better: backup up K >>everything that has changed since the last master, or just files changed s >>since the last backup?  Why? >> >  >  > 	What master?  > + > 	Only back the file up if it has changed.  >  > D >>BTW, when was the last time you verified your 18 month old backup? >  > E > 	You don't understand how TSM works and overlooked that I mentioned2D > 	the files are backed up to a fault-tolerant database with offsite
 > 	copies. > F > 	If you can list it via a show command, you can restore it.  Period. >   F I wouldn't count on that without knowing the details of the software. B For example, many a person has beeen led down the path of doom by E assuming that a "tar tvf" listing was sufficient indication that the -' files listed could in fact be restored.-  E I think a fault tolerant database (though too pricey for most of us)  E combined with offsite copies is certainly a reasonable backup method.*  F That doesn't necessarily change anything though: it's still better to E backup everything every single time unless it is impossible to do so.r  G However, that does depend on how the offsite copies are generated.  If rC they are in fact full copies of everything, then this method would NF satisfy me: the backup is indirect, but it is still complete.  If the ? copies are incrementals,, then you have the same silliness and U2 difficulties of the more common tape incrementals.  4 I would guess that the copies probably are complete?                 --  
 Tony LawrenceY, Free SCO, Mac OS X and  Linux Skills Tests: % http://aplawrence.com/skillstest.htmlk   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Jan 2003 08:37:47 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)* Subject: Re: How to Backup OSX3 Message-ID: <8BS$SK1PBbw4@eisner.encompasserve.org>d  g In article <mEbX9.648345$GR5.448636@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>, Tony Lawrence <tony@pcunix.com> writes:    > K > I'm sorry to get so rabid.  I'm willing to at least respect the opinions nK > of someone like the VMS admin who posted earlier, though I disagree with .F > his reliance on a database based incremental backup.  I'm no longer 7 > willing to give any respect to your opinions on this.S >  > Sorry for the rant.  >   6 	That's okay.  I agree you know your stuff.  But don't; 	be afraid to pick up on something else totally foreign and  	arguably much better.  F 	My whole point about the incrementals is it isn't as bad as you come 9 	off about it.  And it isn't as if TSM isn't used in verya 	large situations.  = 	Here is an example, easy to find dozens of similar examples:   A Client is looking for a Tivoli Storage Manager Administrator to  sH 1. Provide day to day adminstration of the TSM environment at MTO (4 TSMO Servers, STK silo, 16 STK drives, 5000 tapes, 225 clients (HP UX, VMS, NT) with. 20 TB of storage).  O 2. Assist in indentification, evaluation, and implementation of improvements toh overall TSM environment   N 3. Transition knowledge to client team members so we can be self sufficient.  K Day to Day Administration Activities. Day to day support activities the TSMr% Administrator will perform include:  iJ - Monitoring the environment to detect any hardware or software issues and& taking appropriate corrective action  I - Monitoring system jobs to ensure backups complete in timely manner, TSMtE database backups run successfully, and off-site tapes are generated      ---   D 	etc.  The point is that it is an Enterprise Backup solution.  There* 	are similar Enterprise Backups out there.  ) 	Again, incrementals are not a bad thing.v  ? 	I'm not the only one relying on it.  It is used in hundreds ofo@ 	places.  I suppose if there were any large "issues" with it, we< 	would hear about it.  There aren't.  It really is a comfort? 	level and I understand why many cling to their backup schemas.p   				RobX   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Jan 2003 09:15:22 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)f Subject: Re: How to Backup OSX3 Message-ID: <Sub98X5g+NkF@eisner.encompasserve.org>g  a In article <LcDhiQDC78I7@eisner.encompasserve.org>, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:, > 7 >> I would guess that the copies probably are complete?o >   = 	I realize I misinterpreted that question.  The copies aren'tn9 	complete copies.  The database and associated files thata@ 	were backed up, lives in two places at the same time.  Only the@ 	parts that change go offsite everyday.  Obviously, the database. 	changes and some subset of backed up storage.    F > 	Yes.  You can't move the tapes until the DR migration (again, oftenA > 	referred to as "offsite") is complete.  I'm sure you can find h+ > 	details at the above link if interested.8 > 	 > 				Rob  >    ------------------------------    Date: 21 Jan 2003 09:05:35 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)d Subject: Re: How to Backup OSX3 Message-ID: <LcDhiQDC78I7@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <_0cX9.770577$P31.567195@rwcrnsc53>, Tony Lawrence <tony@pcunix.com> writes:m > Rob Young wrote:X >> In article <o4ZW9.62086$Yq3.12889@sccrnsc02>, Tony Lawrence <tony@pcunix.com> writes: >> c >>>Rob Young wrote:e >> h >> iH >>>>	Picking a file at random, one created in 1999, you can see when it  >>>>	was last backed up: >>>>@ >>>>$ abc show backup site$disk:[username.routines]TST_AA_IF.TXT? >>>>Archive Backup Client for ADSM on OpenVMS, Version V3.1.0.1t< >>>>Copyright 1996-2001, Storage Solutions Specialists, Inc.R >>>>DISK$SITE_USERS:[USERS.USERNAME.ROUTINES]TST_AA_IF.TXT;1 (A) 6097 20-SEP-2001 
 >>>> 10:40:43b >>>>I >>>>	Last backed up over a year and a half ago.  I know I can restore it,0> >>>>	as the database/tapepool containing it is fault-tolerant. >>>.! >>>A year and a half ago?????????  >>>e >>>No comment. >>>u >>   >> 9A >> 	Backed up then, and still available today.  In other words, I2F >> 	could restore it right now, in less than 2 minutes if I wanted to.> >> 	Remember, I said that it is like backing up to a database. >> 0 >> 2 >>>>	So, I disagree with this: >>>> >>>> >>>>M >>>>>once a year, if that, but I've seen the problems with differentials and  L >>>>>incrementals and I DO NOT RECOMMEND THEIR USE UNLESS IT IS UNAVOIDABLE. >>>> >>>>G >>>>	You have a poor backup solution in use, would be my first guess asI0 >>>>	to why you so strongly oppose incrementals. >>>> >>>>				RobA >>>> >>>i >>> G >>>Let me ask YOU a question:  which do you think is better: backup up tL >>>everything that has changed since the last master, or just files changed  >>>since the last backup?  Why?n >>>i >>   >> e >> 	What master? >> h, >> 	Only back the file up if it has changed. >> r >>  E >>>BTW, when was the last time you verified your 18 month old backup?e >> a >> yF >> 	You don't understand how TSM works and overlooked that I mentionedE >> 	the files are backed up to a fault-tolerant database with offsiter >> 	copies.e >> eG >> 	If you can list it via a show command, you can restore it.  Period.  >> m > H > I wouldn't count on that without knowing the details of the software. D > For example, many a person has beeen led down the path of doom by G > assuming that a "tar tvf" listing was sufficient indication that the  ) > files listed could in fact be restored., >   > 	Please don't insult us.  One of the worst features of Eunuchs. 	is a pitiful backup design (or lack thereof).  = 	Yes, it is possible to write something and know it got theren$ 	and to know you can read it back.    G > I think a fault tolerant database (though too pricey for most of us) dG > combined with offsite copies is certainly a reasonable backup method.c > H > That doesn't necessarily change anything though: it's still better to G > backup everything every single time unless it is impossible to do so.2  > 	But that is mostly unrealistic.  The problem is with 200, 400D 	, 500 clients (servers) and the storage associated with them, there< 	aren't enough hours in the day to backup everything all the8 	time.  Secondly, and just as importantly, to shrink theC 	backup window... if the file isn't changing, why not skip backing mD 	it up?  This is a problem.  What if your only copy goes bad?  Well D 	let us make sure we have a fault tolerant backup solution and lets ( 	make sure we do a daily DR migration.    < 	This isn't everybody, it is larger shops.  You most likely E 	wouldn't have an Enterprise Backup product if you are small.  There n@ 	is a transition point where even with 20-80 servers things get 
 	unwieldy.  I > However, that does depend on how the offsite copies are generated.  If oE > they are in fact full copies of everything, then this method would rH > satisfy me: the backup is indirect, but it is still complete.  If the A > copies are incrementals,, then you have the same silliness and t4 > difficulties of the more common tape incrementals.  9 	I'm not a TSM administrator.  I do know DR migration (orn0 	offsite) takes about 3-4 hours and begins after< 	all backups are complete.  This keeps your DR copy in synch 	with what is onsite.w  : 	You might have better results in shooting holes in TSM if8 	you read a bit more about it.  Here is the de facto TSM) 	admin site, seems to be a good resource:n   http://adsm.org/  6 > I would guess that the copies probably are complete?  D 	Yes.  You can't move the tapes until the DR migration (again, often? 	referred to as "offsite") is complete.  I'm sure you can find y) 	details at the above link if interested.C   				Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 13:13:50 -0500tA From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star-dot-zko-dot-dec-dot-com>r6 Subject: Re: HP Sets the Stage for Alpha's Last Hurrah, Message-ID: <3e2d8de0_2@hpb10302.boi.hp.com>  : "Mike Magee" <mike.magee@theinquirer.net> wrote in message7 news:9745423a.0301180629.2065e29f@posting.google.com...-F > "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star-dot-zko-dot-dec-dot-com> wrote in2 message news:<3e26edfe$1_2@hpb10302.boi.hp.com>...7 > > > and the recent Inquirer article purports to quoteOK > > > an internal cHumPaq source as saying that indeed EV7 would *not* haveeL > > > shipped save for some government commitments with teeth in them.  Now, I:- > > > don't presume to vouch for that source,s > >iJ > > Inquirer reports should always be taken with a large grain of salt.  I haveJ > > seen everything from remarkably accurate statements that imply a theft ofI > > internal slides, to statements that can only have been made by peopleeK > > without a clue, probably based on some third hand hallway conversation,, and ( > > also by people with an axe to grind. >sG > I don't mind how much salt you take as long as you read the INQUIRER.d6 > But I never steal anything -- and do resent that.... >t  I I can't say I "read" the INQUIRER, mostly it's a reaction to a comment of F "did you see blah-blah-blah".  However, that means you are having some2 success, at least in some quarters.  Good for you.  H Let me rephrase the "imply a theft" comment - to "imply the unauthorizedI disclosure of HP confidential material".  You might let your sources know > that it's all fun and games until someone finds out who it is.   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 12:41:26 +0000 (UTC)a+ From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb)i Subject: Re: Is that possiblew+ Message-ID: <b0jf5m$e3h$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>R  g In article <f948cf20.0301201022.382b1d62@posting.google.com>, taupin974@hotmail.com (taupin974) writes: 6 >And what emulator are avable on my pc with windows ?! >e  N Well I believe ts10 is linux only  however simh runs on Microsloth inoperative- systems as well as on linux and other systemsw  / See http://simh.trailing-edge.com/hardware.htmlt   "a@ The simulators have been tested in the following environments :-  * Windows 9x/NT/2000 (Visual C++, Mingw gcc) .n .f .0   "   D and if you want a commercial rather than public domain product then % charon-vax runs on Windows NT/2000/XPi   sees  ; http://www.softresint.com/charon-vax/product_evaluation.htmw    
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University     >H_ >david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb) wrote in message news:<b0gksn$fl5$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>...pj >> In article <f948cf20.0301191442.3591d848@posting.google.com>, taupin974@hotmail.com (taupin974) writes: >> >Hi@ >> >I'd like to know if i can run open vms on a vax simulator as >> >Charon-VAX, Ts10 or Simh ?A >> >If all programing tools of vms will work if it is possible !!o >> > >> >thxm >>  G >> The emulator's emulate the VAX hardware. You then load VMS onto that- >> "hardware".M >> Hence everything in VMS should work so long as the underlying hardware ands >> emulator support it.mK >> For instance networking obviously won't work if your PC doesn't have anyrQ >> networking or if (as I believe happened with the CHARON-VAX hobbyist version -aO >> which is no longer available anyway) the emulator didn't support networking.t >>   >>  
 >> David WebbS >> VMS and Unix team leaderc >> CCSSg >> Middlesex Universityb   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Jan 2003 08:35:26 GMT( From: nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren)6 Subject: Re: Itanium with alpha goodies on the way ...0 Message-ID: <b0j0oe$mmq$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>  2 In article <E0ydnRB_oJArF7GjXTWcqA@metrocast.net>,, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:I |> Ye gods and little fishes!  Alert the CDC!  Not only does Bob's idiocy D |> appear to be contagious, but it seems to be spreading via USENET!  B Well, maybe :-)  Or perhaps I am just playing devil's advocate :-)  7 |> ..., suggests that Chivano might now not be expectedk |> until 2007.  A Which is what the more cynical of us thought was a more realistic ' target when it was first mentioned ....[  O |> No, it's not - not unless you believe that they could turn such enhancements O |> around from initial design to ship in little over two years (which I suspectl  |> would be utterly impossible).  C No, initially 3 years (2001-2004) and now 4.  More feasible.  But I E wasn't thinking of major revamps, so much as 'internal' restructuringnB that might improve performance.  I stand by "JUST possible", but I& not dissenting that it seems unlikely.  : |> > I suspect that he has stumbled across the truth here. |> e= |> I suggest that you reconsider, in light of the above.  ...i  0 I think that we have a terminological confusion.  M |> Of course it's only a change in schedules:  there's no room for any changeiL |> in strategy (save dropping the pig entirely) for many years out - they'reK |> stuck with the McKinley core plus tweaks until the presumably Alpha-team ' |> work comes on line in 2006 or later.  |> n4 |>  and that the only major change is that much more8 |> > now hangs on Madison getting established this year. |> aM |> That I can agree with, given that Madison II won't be nearly as attractivem( |> in 2004 as Montecito would have been.  C This is really my point.  Despite the apparently significant naturer@ of this announcement, I don't think that it is actually of greatB consequence.  Long before Montecito is out, Intel will either haveB got the Madison established or will have decided to abandon IA-64.  A My prediction is that this will happen this year, though there isoE just a chance that all vendors (AMD in particular, but not just them)07 will slip badly.  Intel have been saved by that before.      Regards, Nick Maclaren,* University of Cambridge Computing Service,> New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QH, England. Email:  nmm1@cam.ac.uk/ Tel.:  +44 1223 334761    Fax:  +44 1223 334679v   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Jan 2003 07:30:59 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)r Subject: Re: Marvel Performance 3 Message-ID: <7Iy9+JxUW2AN@eisner.encompasserve.org>l  n In article <tO_W9.54278$ej1.11631@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes: > C > It's farcical - HP has the best/fastest general purpose computingeE > architecture in Alpha, and the best/reliable o/s in VMS and they go E > out of their way to downplay, obfuscate, and generally ignore everya8 > opportunity to market these products to new customers.  A    See today's Oracle add for someone who knows how to advertise.o   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 14:28:38 GMT># From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>e Subject: Re: Marvel PerformanceCK Message-ID: <qOcX9.409057$F2h1.233197@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   @ "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in5 message news:7Iy9+JxUW2AN@eisner.encompasserve.org...e > In articleC <tO_W9.54278$ej1.11631@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John  Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:y > >?E > > It's farcical - HP has the best/fastest general purpose computing D > > architecture in Alpha, and the best/reliable o/s in VMS and they goA > > out of their way to downplay, obfuscate, and generally ignorew everyq: > > opportunity to market these products to new customers. >sC >    See today's Oracle add for someone who knows how to advertise.n >b  @ *Everybody* else knows how to advertise better. But even I would4 settle for *some* VMS advertising no matter how bad.    E In my area, HP is running useless t.v. advertising - a 30 second spotiE showing an astronaut  in space suit wandering down a highway until hesE reaches his home, with some drivel voice-over about nothing memorable0. enough for me to quote or even allude to here.  B Some 2nd-year film major at a junior college could whip together aF gonzo ad or two for Alphaservers and VMS so fast and so effective thatB it would knock your socks off. Something that would actually causeD heads to turn, notice to be take, and sales to be made. They'd do itF for the price of a few cases of beer and some blank video tape or 35mm stock.  ( But of course HP can't have that happen.     Ad 1 -----n< Pictures of Florida hurricane evacuation - highways clogged.# Pictures of earthquake devastation.u7 Voiceover: "Your business can't avoid the unavoidable."b   Pictures of explosions.m Pictures of buildings on fire.: Voiceover: "Your business can't predict the unpredictable"   Pictures of Marvel.e6 Voiceover: " But your business can choose hardware andB                    software that make events like these immaterial3                    to the survival of your company.b  ;                   Servers and OpenVMS software from HP haveP:                   been keeping companies in business after catastrophic&                   events for 25 years.  F                   All those 'other' companies, ...they're just toast."  0 Copyright 2003, John Smith. All Rights Reserved.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 03:20:09 -0500c# From: Tom Rymes <tomnews@rymes.net>w0 Subject: Re: MicroVAX upgrade (to Alpha, maybe?)E Message-ID: <tomnews-D86A3E.03200921012003@news.comcast.giganews.com>   , In article <3E2C8E5A.6050209@tsoft-inc.com>,*  David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote:  O > If your software vendor is fair, then they may want something reasonable for G > an @L > ALpha version of the software, and I wouldn't blame them a bit.  However,  > I've lO > seen vendors who think they have the customer by the balls, and want way too rB > much for basically upgrading your hardware to current standards. > P > As for moving to Alpha, do you have the application sources?  If so, and it's P > all in a higher level language, should be rather easy.  If you have MACRO-32, 0 > there are issues, but they normally are minor.   <snip>  J > > 2.) We currently have a load of terminals, printers, etc connected to J > > our VAX via terminal servers and MMJ jacks. Alpha Servers do not have M > > MMJ jacks, as far as I can tell. Where does this leave us for connecting  M > > our equipment? Multiple serial port cards? Just adapt the Alpha's Serial t > > port to MMJ and go?m >  > K > You get terminal servers.  Go to EBay, you'll find DECrepeater 900s real e	 > cheap. iN >   Just saw one starting at $9.99.  That's 32 RJ45 ports.  It's not too hard  >   to rO > change MMJ jacks to RJ45s.  If you need the pin assignments, just ask.  Some   > of n8 > the terminal server manuals show MMJ to RJ45 diagrams. > K > Depending upon how many lines you're talking about, you can either get a c	 > DEChub rL > 90 and use 90TL and 90M terminal servers, or a DEChub 900 and DECrepeater  > 900s. P >   The smaller modules supply 8 ports, and the 900 modules are 32 ports.  It's  >   10  / > mbit ethernet, but that's good for terminals.h   To David and everyone else,i  H Thanks again for the info. (You're keeping my vendor honest!) Sounds to I me like Alpha will work, just depends on licensing issues. Our terminals tE are currently connected via a terminal server and a Marathon MUX and sH leased lines. The terminal server ought to work fine, and it seems that H at worst case I can put more terminal servers in the remote offices and # run ethernet over the leased lines.1  H I'm going to be away from my NNTP access for the next few days, but I'm = going to be on-site with the VAX and check a few more things.r  
 Thanks again,D   Tom    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 10:39:03 -0330m, From: "Jeff Barnes" <barnesjw@dfo-mpo.gc.ca> Subject: Multinet FTP Question* Message-ID: <JzcX9.201$84.74771@localhost>  E Part-time OpenVMS administrator seeking answer to difficult question.i  L A particular user receives the following error when trying to FTP to OpenVMS server 6.2-1H3 (Multinet V3.2).w  - 520 %CDU-E-OPENIN, error opening !AS as input   4 All assistance is appreciated.  Thank you in advance   Barnesjw@dfo-mpo.gc.ca   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 11:36:09 -0500s* From: "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca>" Subject: Re: Multinet FTP Question6 Message-ID: <GJeX9.24062$H67.110946@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>  5 Can you provide the command that leads to this error?iF Presumably, the file you're trying to get cannot be read by this user.I If the file is local, then look at permissions (file protection or user's I privileges) on the local side, and if the file is remote, the do the same 9 with regards to the username you use to connect remotely.r  G It could also be caused by unsufficient user's privilege to open a fileoJ required by TCP but I doubt it. Message doesn't give the name of the file,L but is it possible that a transcript of the session would show the file name& in the message (instead of just !AS) ?   HTHx   --   SyltremnI http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site - en franais) 8 To reply to myself directly, remove zulu from my address  G "Jeff Barnes" <barnesjw@dfo-mpo.gc.ca> a crit dans le message de news:o JzcX9.201$84.74771@localhost...dG > Part-time OpenVMS administrator seeking answer to difficult question.y > F > A particular user receives the following error when trying to FTP to OpenVMSs! > server 6.2-1H3 (Multinet V3.2).C >P/ > 520 %CDU-E-OPENIN, error opening !AS as inputJ >26 > All assistance is appreciated.  Thank you in advance >t > Barnesjw@dfo-mpo.gc.ca >e >l >v   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 12:51:39 -0500 - From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca>e" Subject: Re: Multinet FTP Question5 Message-ID: <b0k1bl$q50qm$1@ID-141708.news.dfncis.de>e   Jeff Barnes wrote: >.../ > 520 %CDU-E-OPENIN, error opening !AS as input  >...  J Look for a "SET COMMAND" in SYLOGIN.COM or LOGIN.COM that is going after aK file that does not exist (or the process does not have privilege to access,wL without the second line of that error it is hard to tell why the process canE not open the file). There may even be a Multinet .COM that has a "SETeG COMMAND" in it, I've never played with Multinet so I don't know, but myN guess is SYLOGIN or LOGIN.COM.   -- Peter WeaverD Opinions are my own, and do not reflect the opinions of my employer,A nor the company that it sub-contracts to, nor the company that ito sub-contracts to.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 10:24:54 -0500t# From: "Dan Allen" <dallen@nist.gov>s7 Subject: RE: Network Time Protocol (NTP) for OpenVMS ?? : Message-ID: <JFEPKAPBPMDFDBOIANGDIEIHCJAA.dallen@nist.gov>  D I think if you check our folks in Boulder have pretty good access to' a rather good reference time source ;-)    > -----Original Message-----4 > From: Rob Young [mailto:young_r@encompasserve.org]) > Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 11:29 AMT > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 9 > Subject: Re: Network Time Protocol (NTP) for OpenVMS ??2 >  > u > In article <3E2C1C8F.EF9BB85A@mediasec.de>, Jan C. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vorbr=FCggen?= <jvorbrueggen@mediasec.de> writes:sJ > >>         The concept of "time server" is old school.  Forget about it. > > R > > And from where, do you think, do the GPS satellites get their reference time!?O > > (No, not via NTP, but it's the same clocks as, for instance, the PTB server3
 > > uses.) > >  > G > 	Well yes.  There has to be an ultimate source of time somewhere.  I  G > 	think in context, I'm trying to press home - don't point to them (asfC > 	mentioned elsewhere their public interfaces are often overloaded I > 	to the point of being worthless).  Guess I could have worded that partr > 	a bit better. > ; > 	The GPS source of course is much better in many aspects.  > 	 > 				Rob  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 11:35:20 -0700r3 From: "Judah Levine" <jlevine@utcnist.colorado.edu>  Subject: NIST Servers and ACTS/ Message-ID: <b0k3s3$nlr$1@peabody.colorado.edu>   H It is absolutely true that all of the NIST time servers are synchronized@ using periodic calls to our ACTS system in Boulder. However, theL synchronization process is called LOCKCLOCK and is completely independent ofK NTP. The details of the algorithm have been published at IEEE/ACM Trans. ond( Networking, Volume 3, pages 42-50, 1995.K Although the ACTS service description gives the accuracy as 10-100 ms, this H is an extremely conservative value, and a carefully-designed ACTS system? provides accuracy at the level of 1-3 ms. (See the publication)hK However, NTP users generally cannot realize the same accuracy as the server D itself because of asymmetries and fluctuations in the network delay.J Although NTP measures the network delay, it assumes that the one-way delayI is exactly one-half of the measured round-trip value. This is rarely trueII for any but the shortest paths. (One of the primary advantages of ACTS istH that it uses the dial-up telephone system to do the same thing. The factI that the measurement is made by the client or by the server is completely J irrelevant -- the real issue is how well the round-trip measurement tracksL the one-way value. The dial-up telephone system is VERY good in this respectG while the performance of the Internet is very variable and depends veryoF strongly on where a user is located and how he/she is connected to the network backbone.)I The NIST servers are widely dispersed geographically precisely to try andaK address this issue. The idea is for users to choose a server where the pathyJ is stable and symmetric. This is usually the one that is closest, but thisL is not always the case, and some users may find that some close servers haveH particularly asymmetric paths whereas a distant server is much better in this regard.E The question of whether to use somebody else's server or your own GPSpF receiver has many aspects, and there is usually no universally correctJ answer. Although a GPS receiver is undoubtedly more accurate than the timeF received from a remote server (no matter how accurately that server isE synchronized), the signals may not be legally traceable to a nationalk> standard in some circumstances, and that might be an importantJ consideration. A GPS receiver usually requires an outside antenna and thatH may also be a problem at some sites. Finally, A GPS system may not scaleD well when several hundred machines must be synchronized, whereas theK infrastructure needed for NTP is usually already in place for other networkpI applications. On the other hand, a system that uses a GPS receiver can beeK located behind a user's firewall, so that no opening for NTP (or some other C time format) is needed. Finally, your own GPS receiver will requiregJ calibration, checking, and support to be sure that it is working properly.A Unless the receiver has a drastic and complete failure, this is a L non-trivial issue. The final choice should be based on all of these factors.! As usual, your mileage will vary.a  , Questions or comments by e-mail are welcome.   Judah Levine Time and Frequency Division  NIST Boulder jlevine@boulder.nist.gov   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 10:26:58 -08002% From: Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com>n0 Subject: Re: NO-IP Dynamic DNS Client for OpenVM( Message-ID: <3E2D90F2.8090406@rdrop.com>   Richard Munroe wrote:6* >     http://sourceforge/projects/noipvms/  : That's http://sourceforge.net/projects/noipvms/ of course.   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Jan 2003 09:02:39 -0800) From: munroe@csworks.com (Richard Munroe)a- Subject: NO-IP Dynamic DNS Client for OpenVMSh< Message-ID: <8d09fa7.0301210902.782b1a3d@posting.google.com>  A A while ago I ported the NO-IP Dynamic DNS client to Multinet fornE OpenVMS.  Dr. Martin Zinser was kind enough to contribute an improved B build command procedure and the necessary changes to support UCX. C I've integrated these and put it all up on sourceforge for access. aB The code should also work as well for most (if not all L*x and U*x	 releases)r  D Anyway, if you are looking for a dynamic DNS service and you want toF use NO-IP and you want to run VMS, here's your client for updating the
 DNS registry.e  (     http://sourceforge/projects/noipvms/   Dick Munroef  D p.s. I'm looking for work.  If you've heard of anything or just want& to take a look at my resume, check out( http://www.acornsw.com/resume/dick.html.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 10:46:50 +0300v2 From: Mike Rechtman <michael.rechtman@digital.com>2 Subject: Re: OKIdata ML 320 Control Codes from VMS) Message-ID: <3E2D251A.9B026B@digital.com>o   Kyle wrote:i > G > Thanks for the response. There was one crucial thing I left out of myoD > post. We are using ip queues with telnetsym. As far as I know, setF > terms don't work with these types of queues. It seems to also ignore' > NOFEED and any type of form I set up.o > 	 > Thanks,l > Kyle >  <... snipped...>  =           You can customize TELNETSYM for each print queue by D           defining logical names before you start the queue. Because@           the logical names are translated once at queue startupB           time, they can be defined differently for each TELNETSYM           queue.  C           Some TELNETSYM configuration logical names are associatedhD           with a TELNETSYM configuration option that is either ON or$           OFF.  If the logical name:  *           o  Is defined, the option is ON.  /           o  Is not defined, the option is OFF.   A           Define all the TELNETSYM configuration logical names asR@           /SYSTEM. The logical that you can use to suppress form4           feeds is UCX$TELNETSYM_SUPPRESS_FORMFEEDS:  8          o  UCX$TELNETSYM_SUPPRESS_FORMFEEDS (ON or OFF)  B              Suppresses form feeds between jobs. This includes theB              form feed that is normally sent before the very firstC              job printed to a print queue and the form feed sent at>"              the end of every job.     -- eE ---------------------------------------------------------------------IE Usual disclaimer: All opinions are mine alone, perhaps not even that.0? Mike Rechtman                            *rechtman@tzora.co.il*eF Kibbutz Tzor'a.                          Voice (home): 972-2-9908337  B   "20% of a job takes 80% of the time, the rest takes another 80%"E ---------------------------------------------------------------------a -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----  Version: 3.1: GCM/CS d(-)pu s:+>:- a++ C++ U-- L-- W++ N++ K? w--- V+++$6 PS+ PE-- t 5? X- tv-- b+ DI+ D-- G e++ h--- r+++ y+++@ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------w   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 13:15:08 +0200r$ From: "Thys de Wet" <thys@sun.ac.za>2 Subject: Re: OKIdata ML 320 Control Codes from VMS0 Message-ID: <b0ja3t$2ufd$1@news.adamastor.ac.za>   Kyle,s  < I've had a look at your form definition.  I see you're using /SETUP=(LINES-PAGE-12)  J On our system, that's a file that contains the printer control codes.  TheD information in that file should also be added to a .TLB file in your SYS$LIBRARY directory.G We don't use telnetsym, but Multinet.  Same principle applies.  OpenVMSrK "reads" the form definition, and then gets the info (printer control codes) L from the .TLB file and embeds the printer control codes into the data stream queued to the printer queue.  2 Contact me off the group if you require more info.  	 T de Wet,e" Developer, Admin Computer Services University of Stellenbosch Stellenbosch, South Africa   thys  AT  sun  dot  ac  dot  zal. "Kyle" <nntpnews@thethin.net> wrote in message7 news:30209e88.0301201326.5e4eb6d0@posting.google.com...dG > Thanks for the response. There was one crucial thing I left out of myeD > post. We are using ip queues with telnetsym. As far as I know, setF > terms don't work with these types of queues. It seems to also ignore' > NOFEED and any type of form I set up.  >e	 > Thanks,c > Kyle >*= > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message + news:<3E283C06.44975596@vl.videotron.ca>...mL > > I don't have the exact asnwer for you, but I do what you want on my good	 old LA75.e > > 9 > > Here is some information which may be of help to you:g > > $ show queue matrix/fullD > > Terminal queue MATRIX, idle, on VELO::TXA6:, mounted form LABELS (stock=DEFAULT)e3 > >   <LA75 LABELS (12 lignes-40 caractres/label)>cG > >   /BASE_PRIORITY=4 /DEFAULT=(FORM=LABELS (stock=DEFAULT)) LowercasepC > >   /OWNER=[SYSTEM] /NO_INITIAL_FF /PROTECTION=(S:M,O:D,G:R,W:RS)e > >  > >S! > > $ show queue/form labels/full/= > > Form name                            Number   Description-= > > ---------                            ------   -----------eF > > LABELS (stock=DEFAULT)                   57   40char*12line labelsB > >     /LENGTH=12 /MARGIN=(TOP=1,BOTTOM=1) /SETUP=(LINES-PAGE-12) /STOCK=DEFAULT > >     /WIDTH=40o > >w > > L > > $ SET TERMINAL 'DEVMATRIX /NOBROADCAST /NOTYPEAHEAD /WRAP /FORM /NOTAB -I > >       /LOWER /HOSTSYNC /TTSYNC /SPEED=(9600) /WIDTH=(80) /PAGE=(12) -d! > >       /DEV=LA75 /NOECHO /PERM  > > $!< > > $ SET DEVICE /SPOOLED=(MATRIX,SYS$SYSDEVICE:) 'DEVMATRIX > >i3 > > If I  LIB/EXTRACT=lines-page-12/output=temp.tmp  sys$library:sysdevctl.tlb  > >  > > and then dump/rec temp.tmp	 > > I get J > > Dump of file SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSMGR]TEMP.TMP;1 on 17-JAN-2003 13:24:44.35= > > File ID (2652,1618,0)   End of file block 1 / Allocated 6i > >iC > > Record number 1 (00000001), 5 (0005) bytes, RFA(0001,0000,0000)t > > @ > >                          74 32315B1B .[12t........... 000000 > >sC > > Which is the DEC sequence to set the LA75 to 12 lines per page.g   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 07:42:48 -0800 (PST)t. From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br># Subject: OpenVMS Itanium and VMWare,@ Message-ID: <20030121154248.68498.qmail@web20207.mail.yahoo.com>  5 Would be good if VMWare and HP begin to work together / to support OpenVMS under VMWare 64 bits. Mainlyi- for development and for application services.   4 Imagine the number of MicroVAX/VMS and Alpha/OpenVMS6 installations that would be runnning under VMWare ESX.   Regardso   FC g   =====r ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazili fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!?5 Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.a http://mailplus.yahoo.comn   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 14:09:33 GMTa# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>tY Subject: Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marveland  Alpha RetanK Message-ID: <xwcX9.408940$F2h1.271619@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>    Sorry for top-posting...  ? One of my local newspapers carried an article in this morning's-A edition business section, approximately 9 column inches worth, onrE IBM's iSeries product announcement yesterday. The article was sourcedO from Bloomberg.S  ? HP had an article of its own in the newspaper too - about theire; storage products alliance with Microsoft. Nothing on Alpha.g    9 The following nifty bit of fiction was seen on Bloomberg,oF http://quote.bloomberg.com/fgcgi.cgi?T=marketsquote99_relnews.ht&s=APiC w6IxXgSGV3bGV0, "Server rival International Business Machines Corp.wF makes the Alpha chips based on Hewlett-Packard designs, Marcello said.B Hewlett-Packard expects servers with Itanium chips will outperform* Alpha-based machines after 2004, he said."  E It's the 2nd sentence that is laughable.Way to continue to slit VMS'sr
 throat, Rich.o      3 "Greg Cagle" <gregc@gregcagle.com> wrote in messagea) news:v2pl5le5ilmt5a@corp.supernews.com...	. > http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/030120/200078_1.html >  > JF Mezei wrote:5F > > On the New York Stock Exchange, requesting the info for a company, you getO+ > > varoius recent news about that company.s > >o4 > > Here is what NYSE had to say about HP on Monday: > > 11:26amcE > >            Vista Software Provides EDIINT Collaboration Solutions6 in > > Partnership - PR > >            Newswirei > >       7:42amA > >            2002 EMEA Personal Computer Shipments +1.9% Versus, 2001 - IDC - Dow Jones > >            Business News > >       7:02amD > >            The International Imaging Industry Association - I3A:	 Technical  > > Sympos - Businesso > >            Wire. > >      1/17/03E > >            Stock Rating Reiterations Closing Update: LEN VRTS HPQ: CC - Dow > > Jones Business > >            News0 > >      1/17/03D > >            EquityOutlook.Com Announces Stock Evaluation Ratings: New Ratingsr
 > > on T - > >            Business Wire > >g > >sD > > So it looks like HP's "press release" may not have been released
 to the press,uD > > instead being given to the places where existing customers might
 hear about. > > it, but never make it to mainstream press.B > > And it was a relaitvely slow news day since the USA was off on holiday. HP can.@ > > defend itself by claiming it has announced the new EV7, even though it knowsf6 > > full well that wasn't a full fledged announcement. > >>E > > And I do not believe that making a PR newswire press release thatL getsC > > distributed to the world costs so much money that budgets wouldr have been an
 > > issue. > >oE > > We'll see if perhaps it get re-released on tiesday , this time as> a real press release.i >  > -- > Greg Cagle > gregc at gregcagle dot com >h   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 03:04:56 -0400e0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>Y Subject: Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marveland Alpha Retais/ Message-ID: <3E2CF109.EE8D54F9@vl.videotron.ca>k   Greg Cagle wrote:	 > . > http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/030120/200078_1.html  M OK , I stand corrected. I had looked in the technology news section and did as1 search of HP and it didn't bring this release up.a  N I wonder what sort of distribution optiosn are available to a corporation whenL they pay to post a release on those business wires. Do they have a choice ofM various keywords ? (for instance, having those show up in both technology anda- financial streams ? or does that cost more ?)t  L I still maintain that releasing it on a USA holiday was a plan to reduce the press release's impact.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 09:16:26 +0100 * From: "Sven Tieste" <sven.tieste@sw-hb.de>4 Subject: Re: Oracle LMON and LMDO buffered I/O usage2 Message-ID: <b0ivkq$h9m$1@f40-3.zfn.uni-bremen.de>   Hello,4 the only thing we did to disable parallel server was commenting lines like this out #parallel server configo #parallel_server = true  #parallel_server_instances = 2) Maybe have a look at the instance number. . And maybe der is another init.ora-file defined in your "normal" init.ora like! ifile   = ORA_SYSTEM:ABC_INIT.ORAe0 If that all does not work I have no further idea/ except to use the oracle-support or if you have 6 access to oracle metalink search there for a solution. Metalink could be reached by http://metalink.oracle.com/p	 Good lucka Sven      A Bill McLaughlin <mcbill20@hotmail.com> schrieb in im Newsbeitrag: 2 e9cbc4f2.0301201614.7b8fac9a@posting.google.com...B > Thanks for the info. However, I can't seem to find the option toA > disable the parallel server. The only lines in my init.ora thatd: > reference the parallel server are already commented out: >e/ > # parallel_max_servers = 4 x (number of CPUs) 
 > # MEDIUM/ > # parallel_max_servers = 4 x (number of CPUs)a	 > # LARGE 6 > # define parallel server (multi-instance) parameters >hF > Could you tell me what you did to disbale the parallel server?  I amG > still trying to get my hands on the VMS 7.3 and Oracle 9i CD's so I'ds0 > like to just turn off the parallel option now. >e	 > Thanks.I > Bill McLaughlins >t > 7 > "Sven Tieste" <sven.tieste@sw-hb.de> wrote in messageo. news:<b0gb70$keg$1@f40-3.zfn.uni-bremen.de>... > > It is me again!cJ > > I forget, the first thing we did were disabling Oracle Parallel Server in  > > init.ora and restart the DB.@ > > After that there will be no LMD0-process and LMON needs less > > CPU and IO.e
 > > greetingss > > SvenA > > Sven Tieste <sven.tieste@sw-hb.de> schrieb in im Newsbeitrag:u+ > > b0gao5$gqa$1@f40-3.zfn.uni-bremen.de...( > > > Hello Bill,rG > > > we are using a AlphaServer 1000A 5/400 and had the same problems.hH > > > First, these two processes are processes of Oracle Parallel Server
 > >  (AFAIK).2L > > > We solved this problem by upgrade to OpenVMS 7.2-2 and Oracle 8.1.7.3.E > > > After this all work much better than before (quite good but noth perfect; > >  IO8; > > > from >500 to about 75; CPU from >90% to mean of 15%).uJ > > > I think this problem is well known at Oracle and HP but both of them did. > >  not$ > > > resolved it in older versions. > > > Hope this will help. > > > greetings6
 > > > Sven > > >o > > >mG > > > Bill McLaughlin <mcbill20@hotmail.com> schrieb in im Newsbeitrag:i8 > > > e9cbc4f2.0301170918.296fa424@posting.google.com...L > > > > I am running Oracle Enterprise Server version 8.1.6.0.0 on Alpha VMSD > > > > 7.2. This is on a home system (AlphaStation 500 with 256MB). > > > >rL > > > > Oracle works OK but there are two processes that eat up huge amountsI > > > > of buffered I/O's, even on a totally idle database. The processes  arenI > > > > LMON and LMDO. When I do a MONITOR SYSTEM, the buffered I/O totalu sitsL > > > > at about 1030 and the top users alternate between the LMDO and LMON,G > > > > at 512 or 513 each. After three days of uptime (with no process I > > > > accessing Oracle for the first two), the LMON has done 6133499390rL > > > > I/O's and the LMDO has done 6133587962 I/O's. Here's the output form > > > > SHOW SYSTEM: > > > >eD > > > > 2020012E ORA_V8160000000 LEF      6      194   0 00:00:00.22 277s > > > >    263D > > > > 20200130 ORA_CALLS1_PMON HIB      6      117   0 00:00:04.60 895l > > > >   1079D > > > > 20200131 ORA_CALLS1_LMON HIB      6133499390   0 00:00:06.45 1551 > > > >   1340D > > > > 20200132 ORA_CALLS1_LMD0 HIB      6133587962   0 00:00:06.13 908- > > > >    909D > > > > 20200133 ORA_CALLS1_DBW0 HIB      6      168   0 00:00:00.41 939a > > > >   1010D > > > > 20200134 ORA_CALLS1_LGWR HIB      6      250   0 00:00:00.39 906  > > > >   1056D > > > > 20200135 ORA_CALLS1_CKPT HIB      5   169118   0 00:01:45.14 7709 > > > >   1115D > > > > 20200136 ORA_CALLS1_SMON HIB      4      200   0 00:00:09.84 1634 > > > >   1267D > > > > 20200137 ORA_CALLS1_RECO HIB      4      103   0 00:00:00.96 1103 > > > >   1381D > > > > 20200138 ORA_LISTENER907 HIB      5   260834   0 00:00:10.93 793s > > > >    596D > > > > 20200199 ORA_CALLS1B4824 LEF      6      191   0 00:00:00.35 2835 > > > >   1022 > > > >  > > > >u > > > >o > > > > Any ideas? > > > >o > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > >n > > > > Bill McLaughline > > >t > > >w   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 12:14:18 +0000 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>@ Subject: Plextor CD-R Plexwriter PX-C412Ci and OpenVMS questions) Message-ID: <3E2D399A.BD00C3A9@127.0.0.1>   H I acquired one of these SCSI devices at a computer [junk] show for about $8 (GBP 5).a  F Trying it on my DEC 2000-300 (Jensen) while it recognizes the device I' get Invalid media format when mounting.   G However it is at 1.01 firmware (first generation?) and I've had fun and E games with the SCSI controller in my box before, so I'm not beat yet.h  ! I have parity enabled, and BLOCK..  ? I'm considering attaching to a PC with SCSI, blowing the latesthH firmware, and also trying a later Alpha system. Anyone else had positiveF results with this beast (if so, what firmware), or did I buy a turkey?   -- a? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencesn nclews at csc dot comh   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 12:35:45 GMTS" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORGD Subject: Re: Plextor CD-R Plexwriter PX-C412Ci and OpenVMS questions0 Message-ID: <00A1A4A8.2E4A33D0@SendSpamHere.ORG>  T In article <3E2D399A.BD00C3A9@127.0.0.1>, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes:I >I acquired one of these SCSI devices at a computer [junk] show for abouta >$8 (GBP 5). >oG >Trying it on my DEC 2000-300 (Jensen) while it recognizes the device It( >get Invalid media format when mounting. >pH >However it is at 1.01 firmware (first generation?) and I've had fun andF >games with the SCSI controller in my box before, so I'm not beat yet. >s" >I have parity enabled, and BLOCK. >e@ >I'm considering attaching to a PC with SCSI, blowing the latestI >firmware, and also trying a later Alpha system. Anyone else had positiveiG >results with this beast (if so, what firmware), or did I buy a turkey?  >a >-- @ >Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences >nclews at csc dot com  I Many of the CD burners will simply not allow you to mount a CDrom on them.J with VMS.  This doesn't mean that you cannot use the device to burn CD-Rs.  I Give CDrecord a go with your device and then try to read the CD-Rs you've # burned on some other CDrom drive.      --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM             n5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" r   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 14:38:28 +0100eC From: Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann <vaxinf@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de>nD Subject: Re: Plextor CD-R Plexwriter PX-C412Ci and OpenVMS questions? Message-ID: <00A1A4E3.399878D6.13@CHCLU.CHEMIE.UNI-KONSTANZ.DE>n   Hi,0  U >In article <3E2D399A.BD00C3A9@127.0.0.1>, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes:oJ >>I acquired one of these SCSI devices at a computer [junk] show for about
 >>$8 (GBP 5).n >>H >>Trying it on my DEC 2000-300 (Jensen) while it recognizes the device I) >>get Invalid media format when mounting.a >>I >>However it is at 1.01 firmware (first generation?) and I've had fun andaG >>games with the SCSI controller in my box before, so I'm not beat yet.e >># >>I have parity enabled, and BLOCK.l >>A >>I'm considering attaching to a PC with SCSI, blowing the latestpJ >>firmware, and also trying a later Alpha system. Anyone else had positiveH >>results with this beast (if so, what firmware), or did I buy a turkey? >> >>--  A >>Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencesv >>nclews at csc dot come  J >Many of the CD burners will simply not allow you to mount a CDrom on themK >with VMS.  This doesn't mean that you cannot use the device to burn CD-Rs.a  J >Give CDrecord a go with your device and then try to read the CD-Rs you've$ >burned on some other CDrom drive.    S I solved this problem with very good results by Glenn Everharts zridehost+zrdriver.4M The package converts vms-I/O-requests for 2048-blocked devices. Then you can o2 read CDs (or DVDs) clusterwide from such a drive.    For more information see:n  + http://home.tiscali.de/dvd4openvms/support/b   eberhard   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 09:24:46 -0500n! From: VAXVMS <bounce@notmail.com> E Subject: Re:  Plextor CD-R Plexwriter PX-C412Ci and OpenVMS questionsnK Message-ID: <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E4903027BC0@rlghncst964.usps.gov>,  ?    Nic, I can't speak for *your* Plextor, but as a general ruleu)    they *will* write ODS-2 formatted CDs.   =    In my experience, they *won't* mount or read anything, but 0    a combination of LDDRIVER and CDRECORD works.  C    I've done it successfully on an AlphaStation 200 4/166 192MB RAMe?    VMS 7.3, LDDriver 6.3 CDRECORD (I forget) and on a Personal r>    Workstation 433au VMS 7.2-1 LDdriver 6.2 and same CDRECORD.  D    You create a logical disk, put your files on it, and then use the@    filespec of the logical disk as the data source for CDRECORD.      HTH  	    WWWebby  H I acquired one of these SCSI devices at a computer [junk] show for about $8 (GBP 5).r  F Trying it on my DEC 2000-300 (Jensen) while it recognizes the device I' get Invalid media format when mounting.y  G However it is at 1.01 firmware (first generation?) and I've had fun andME games with the SCSI controller in my box before, so I'm not beat yet.   ! I have parity enabled, and BLOCK.   ? I'm considering attaching to a PC with SCSI, blowing the latesthH firmware, and also trying a later Alpha system. Anyone else had positiveF results with this beast (if so, what firmware), or did I buy a turkey?   --? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencesh nclews at csc dot comt   ========================  William W. Webb / DSSC/RLM, USPS OpenVMS Support Services& 4924 Green Road Raleigh, NC 27616-2800: 919.874.3043 <FirstInitialDotLastNameAtEmailDotUSPSDotGov>   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 17:51:10 +0000n( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>D Subject: Re: Plextor CD-R Plexwriter PX-C412Ci and OpenVMS questions) Message-ID: <3E2D888E.97430AC8@127.0.0.1>r  
 VAXVMS wrote:v > A >    Nic, I can't speak for *your* Plextor, but as a general ruleg+ >    they *will* write ODS-2 formatted CDs.r > ? >    In my experience, they *won't* mount or read anything, butu2 >    a combination of LDDRIVER and CDRECORD works.  ) Thank you to VAXman, Eberhard and WWWebb.e  G I used to think that WOM, write only memory was a joke, Then I learnt a 0 little about memory channel and how it does SCS.  , Now, I find the same is true with CD-W (sic)  E Can this be put in the FAQ or some other reference. I'd have gone off H thinking it would never possibly work, just because I couldn't read from the device.S  4 Anyway I'll give it a shot... Thank you to everyone.   --  ? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencesr nclews at csc dot com:   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 14:01:19 GMT13 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond)C8 Subject: Re: Recovering from deleted .PCSI$DATABASE file0 Message-ID: <PocX9.276$9k1.222@news.cpqcorp.net>  > In article <69d784c4.0301170906.37aaa68a@posting.google.com>, 0 Jack.Trachtman@vmmc.org (Jack Trachtman) writes:  N >I inadvertantly deleted a .PCSI$DATABASE product file and don't have a backupL >copy of it.  The only DSNlink articles I can find indicate that I will have1 >to recreate the entire set of PRODUCT databases.o  G The only way is to recreate the entire database.  I suggest your renameeI or backup the existing set of PCSI$DATABASE file.  Then use the operatinguE system CD-ROM to reinstall OpenVMS.  Finally, use the PRODUCT command * to re-install or re-register all products.  I However, you may not "need" the database.  If you don't have ANY databasevH files, the next PRODUCT operation (or OpenVMS upgrade) will create a newM database.  The problem with this is that PRODUCT INSTALL commands may not be  N able to resolve various product dependencies.  e.g., OpenVMS Remedial (patch) L kits may not install because they don't see the required version of OpenVMS    Now to state the obvious:o  *     (1) DO NOT DELETE PCSI$DATABASE FILES!?     (2) DO backup this set of files after each product install.o  D (I know, you already knew that, but I had to say it for the record.)   -- eI       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Pompano Beach  FL USA H        (hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 03:26:15 -0400r0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>2 Subject: Standards for sending of VMS binary files/ Message-ID: <3E2CF606.3C5760B4@vl.videotron.ca>   L OK, in VMSmail, I can send an indexed file as /FOREIGN and it comes out with. exactly the same attributes at the other hand.  N On a Macintosh, I can send a file as a MACbinary files which makes it possibleL to restore the file at the other end totally intact with all its attributes.J (Some mailers will send a MAC file as 2 attachements, one for the resource# fork, the other for the data fork).i  M Is there an implicit standard for packaging a file's attributes when the file-I is encoded , for instance as base64 so that they could be restored at theaK other end by another VMS mail program, or just seen as binary data by otherJ platforms ?4  J (i.e. does PMDF support the "true" /FOREIGN sending of VMS files  with theH ability to restore indexed files for instance on the receiving node (viaM email) ? Or does it just convert all files to raw binary daya. excluding fileo1 attributes as well as indices for indexed files ?e   ----  G In the same vein. When MAIL calls a foreign protocol, at one stage, the-K foreign protocol is given a RAB and told to read from it until end of file.oM (this contains the text of the email). In the case of /FOREIGN, it seems that4+ block io ($READ instead of $GET) is needed.o  L I there a way for me, from the rab (and implicitely from a FAB pointed to byM the rab), to create a clone file with the exact same attributes as the sourcep& file, including any indexed keys etc ?N (eg: cloning the FAB and RAB, changin a few things such as file name, and then creating a new file)  M Here is the question: if MAIL opens the source file without specifying a fullnM XAB___ chain in the FAB, will the cloned file be missing the stuff that wouldfM have been contained in the XABs that were not specified in the original FAB ?aL Or will cloning the FAB allow RMS to go fetch all those attributes from some' internal structures separate from FAB ?    ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 14:42:51 +0100 (MET)s9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>mY Subject: Re: TCPIP: pseudo-interface: 2 IP addresses on 1 VMS system with 1 ethernet cardn; Message-ID: <01KRHYIA2XQQ8WW5NX@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>e  H > > OK, makes sense, but in order to tell it that, I have to be able to J > > access it over the network!  As I said, one should never buy hardware 9 > > one can't configure via a VT and a serial connection!  > ; > Good luck in that department !  Actually, I find the http-B > configuration tool very much easier to use on my router than the > command-line telnet one. u  H Well, I don't like command-line interfaces for such things (for VMS, of C course, command line is fine!), but rather a menu-driven interface.o  G > I know its heresy to say it, but having a Wintel box around at a timeG" > like this can be very handy ;-)   H Well, I actually have two (I DO have excuses) but neither is working at 
 the moment.  l  E > SET ROUTE destination-ip/GATEWAY=my-ip  (and its /PERM equivalent).l  G Right, tried this.  Instead of "not reachable", just got "trying" with eA no result.  Another indication that the problem is at the router.G    I > If I remember rightly, Phillip, you had two VMS networks, connected viah > some dialup.    E Well, two clusters in two flats, 500 km apart.  Until recently, just iI ISDN in both places.  In one, there is an ISDN router, real IP addresses aD and so on.  In the other one, plans were to connect through an ISDN H router (another type, with command-line instead of menu interface), but H I never could get it configured properly.  From a PC it was possible to D dial in to the working ISDN router and connect to the internet from  there.  F Now that there is DSL, this isn't worth the trouble anymore, though I H will try to get the other ISDN router working so that I can connect the ' two independent of the DSL connections.t  D > Have you bought routers that will set up VPN between themselves onI > demand, allowing each cluster at either end to transparently access therC > other network with excellent security ?  There are some very goodgF > router/firewalls that will do this, at very reasonable cost.  When IC > think what two Decrouters and a leased line used to add up to... m   I haven't investigated VPN yet.s   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Jan 2003 12:48:07 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)yY Subject: Re: TCPIP: pseudo-interface: 2 IP addresses on 1 VMS system with 1 ethernet cards3 Message-ID: <TcpZlUH$xaJ4@eisner.encompasserve.org>h  f In article <8amo2vcrghs1va907jdggdol7osi5rv9j0@4ax.com>, John Laird <john@laird-towers.org.uk> writes: > L > I know its heresy to say it, but having a Wintel box around at a time like > this can be very handy ;-)  E    Also old versions of browsers.  My hub claims to need Netscape 4.7SF    or Exploder x.something OR LATER.  Current versions of Netscape andD    Exploder both give blank pages.  Fortuneatly my old Mac still has3    Netscape 4.7 loaded and the hub works with lynx.r   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 19:50:48 +0100 (MET)e9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>lY Subject: Re: TCPIP: pseudo-interface: 2 IP addresses on 1 VMS system with 1 ethernet carde; Message-ID: <01KRIBNZQ05O96VR7Q@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>a  G >    Also old versions of browsers.  My hub claims to need Netscape 4.7dH >    or Exploder x.something OR LATER.  Current versions of Netscape andF >    Exploder both give blank pages.  Fortuneatly my old Mac still has5 >    Netscape 4.7 loaded and the hub works with lynx.e  I There's the old joke "it said one needs Windows 98 or BETTER, so I use a l Mac".e   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 08:38:45 +0100 $ From: Michael Unger <unger@decus.de>L Subject: Technical Data for AlphaServer ES47, ES80, and GS1280 available ...* Message-ID: <00A1A4B0.F9202380.1@decus.de>   at:i  & http://h18002.www1.hp.com/alphaserver/  C .. including broken links to the "QuickSpecs" (all new systems, PDFs as well as HTML version)   Michaele   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 09:13:35 +0100c1 From: SAP Trainee <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr>oW Subject: Re: Technical Data for AlphaServer ES47, ES80, and GS1280 available ... ......e& Message-ID: <3E2D012F.9020507@Free.fr>  A Time to backup on DVDs all still existing former DEC tech info???i   D.   Michael Unger wrote: > at:t > ( > http://h18002.www1.hp.com/alphaserver/ > E > .. including broken links to the "QuickSpecs" (all new systems, PDFe > as well as HTML version) > 	 > Michaela   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Jan 2003 12:25:55 +0100C From: vaxinf@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de (Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann) O Subject: Re: Technical Data for AlphaServer ES47, ES80, and GS1280 available...c+ Message-ID: <3e2d2e43@news.uni-konstanz.de>d  2 In article <3E2D012F.9020507@Free.fr>, SAP Trainee' <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr> writes:hC |>Time to backup on DVDs all still existing former DEC tech info???   + Hope you know howto burn DVDs under VMS ...    eberhard   |> |>D. |> |>Michael Unger wrote: |>> at:  |>> * |>> http://h18002.www1.hp.com/alphaserver/ |>> G |>> .. including broken links to the "QuickSpecs" (all new systems, PDF  |>> as well as HTML version) |>>  |>> Michaele |> |>   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.042 ************************ns. On the other hand, a system that uses a GPS receiver can beeK located behind a user's firewall, so that no opening for NTP (or some other C time format) is needed. Finally, your own GPS receiver will requiregJ calibration, checking, and support to be sure ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪     ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    	٪    
٪    ٪    ٪    
٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪     ٪    !٪    "٪    #٪    $٪    %٪    &٪    '٪    (٪    )٪    *٪    +٪    ,٪    -٪    .٪    /٪    0٪    1٪    2٪    3٪    4٪    5٪    6٪    7٪    8٪    9٪    :٪    ;٪    <٪    =٪    >٪    ?٪    @٪    A٪    B٪    C٪    D٪    E٪    F٪    G٪    H٪    I٪    J٪    K٪    L٪    M٪    N٪    O٪    P٪    Q٪    R٪    S٪    T٪    U٪    V٪    W٪    X٪    Y٪    Z٪    [٪    \٪    ]٪    ^٪    _٪    `٪    a٪    b٪    c٪    d٪    e٪    f٪    g٪    h٪    i٪    j٪    k٪    l٪    m٪    n٪    o٪    p٪    q٪    r٪    s٪    t٪    u٪    v٪    w٪    x٪    y٪    z٪    {٪    |٪    }٪    ~٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    ٪    