0 INFO-VAX	Wed, 22 Jan 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 43      Contents:/ (UNIX is OVER) was  . . . Re: Alpha for HP UX ? 3 RE: (UNIX is OVER) was  . . . Re: Alpha for HP UX ? 4 Re: Access linux and/or windows directories with vms4 Re: Access linux and/or windows directories with vms Re: Alpha for HP UX ?  Re: Alpha for HP UX ? " Re: ALphaServer 2100A Disk Options automatic screensaver  RE: automatic screensaver  Re: automatic screensaver  RE: automatic screensaver  cURL 7.10.3 available for VMS 1 Re: DECLASER 3500 Treiber zu WIN XP oder WIN 2000  Re: DECnet-Plus vs DECnet IV2 Re: EV7 hits, blows away Sun, IBM, 2-3x VMS gains!2 Re: EV7 hits, blows away Sun, IBM, 2-3x VMS gains!2 Re: EV7 hits, blows away Sun, IBM, 2-3x VMS gains!2 Re: EV7 hits, blows away Sun, IBM, 2-3x VMS gains!# Re: Foreign mail question (code 19)   Galaxy support Profile for ES80? Re: How to Backup OSX  Re: How to Backup OSX  Re: How to Backup OSX  Re: How to Backup OSX  Re: How to Backup OSX  Re: How to Backup OSX  Re: How to Backup OSX  Re: How to Backup OSX , Re: How to flash VAXstation 4000/90 FEPROMS?- Re: HP Sets the Stage for Alpha's Last Hurrah - Re: HP Sets the Stage for Alpha's Last Hurrah - Re: HP Sets the Stage for Alpha's Last Hurrah - Re: HP Sets the Stage for Alpha's Last Hurrah - Re: HP Sets the Stage for Alpha's Last Hurrah , Interrupt stack with EMC fibre channel disks0 Re: Interrupt stack with EMC fibre channel disks0 Re: Interrupt stack with EMC fibre channel disks Re: Is that possible Re: Is that possible Re: Is that possible- Re: Itanium with alpha goodies on the way ...  Re: Marvel Performance Re: Marvel Performance Re: Multinet FTP Question  Re: NIST Servers and ACTS  Re: NIST Servers and ACTS ) Re: OKIdata ML 320 Control Codes from VMS ) Re: OKIdata ML 320 Control Codes from VMS ) Re: OKIdata ML 320 Control Codes from VMS $ Re: OpenVMS DCL bumper sticker offerI OpenVMS FAQ Pending (was: Re: Network Time Protocol (NTP) for OpenVMS ??) P Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marveland  Alpha RetaP Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marveland  Alpha RetaP Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marveland  Alpha RetaP Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marveland Alpha RetaiP Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marveland Alpha Retai; Re: Plextor CD-R Plexwriter PX-C412Ci and OpenVMS questions ; Re: Plextor CD-R Plexwriter PX-C412Ci and OpenVMS questions / Re: Recovering from deleted .PCSI$DATABASE file / Re: Recovering from deleted .PCSI$DATABASE file : shadow-set consistency on simultaneous loss of all members& somewhat off-topic: CNAME as MX-record& somewhat off-topic: CNAME as MX-record* Re: somewhat off-topic: CNAME as MX-record* Re: somewhat off-topic: CNAME as MX-record* Re: somewhat off-topic: CNAME as MX-record- Re: Standards for sending of VMS binary files - Re: Standards for sending of VMS binary files < Storage network with VMS cluster and other OSses, ESS, EMC2?@ Re: Storage network with VMS cluster and other OSses, ESS, EMC2?' Re: System uptime - The Uptimes Project P Re: TCPIP: pseudo-interface: 2 IP addresses on 1 VMS system with 1 ethernet cardP Re: TCPIP: pseudo-interface: 2 IP addresses on 1 VMS system with 1 ethernet card% The HP marketing juggernaut grinds on ) Re: The HP marketing juggernaut grinds on ) Re: The HP marketing juggernaut grinds on ) Re: The HP marketing juggernaut grinds on ) Re: The HP marketing juggernaut grinds on ) Re: The HP marketing juggernaut grinds on ) Re: The HP marketing juggernaut grinds on ) Re: The HP marketing juggernaut grinds on ) Re: The HP marketing juggernaut grinds on ) Re: The HP marketing juggernaut grinds on ) Re: The HP marketing juggernaut grinds on ) Re: The HP marketing juggernaut grinds on ) Re: The HP marketing juggernaut grinds on 	 VMS Jokes 
 Re: VMS Jokes % Re: VMS on Itanic boot report sighted  Will this post?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 15:36:51 -0800 (PST) . From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>8 Subject: (UNIX is OVER) was  . . . Re: Alpha for HP UX ?@ Message-ID: <20030121233651.69077.qmail@web20207.mail.yahoo.com>   Reading some News site today:   3 HP sold US$ 2 billion dollars in Linux last year !   Hom much from HPUX / Tru64  ?   
 And OVMS ?  @ There is no escape ! The standard UNIX will die as the companies4 will consolidate processors (ex. Itanium or Opteron)  E May be SUN will be the last on with an owned processor. IBM will have A Itanium or Opteron servers. SGI will have Itanium servers. HP !!! + May be the Cobalt apliances can save SUN !     Regards    FC  5 --- JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote: J > With many HP UX customers formerly Digital customers who defected in theN > 1990s, what percentage of the HP UX customer base would prefer HP UX migrate' > to Alpha intead of that Intel thing ?  > N > Would the head of the legacy department (Alpha, Tru64, VMS) have the ability2 > to conduct some polling of HP-UX customer base ? > N > While there is still a chance that Intel may not abandon IA64, and there mayL > still be a chance that IA64 might be able to keep up with the competition,N > nobody expects IA64 to become commodity, which was the main reason for going  > that route in the first place. > O > Right now would be a great time for HP to relieve Intel of its IA64 shackles, J > and adopt Alpha for high end systems, and stick with the 8086 for wintelE > stuff, with Intel then releasing a competitor to Hammer in the 8086 
 architecture.      =====  ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazil  fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!?5 Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.  http://mailplus.yahoo.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 15:37:58 -0800 $ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>< Subject: RE: (UNIX is OVER) was  . . . Re: Alpha for HP UX ?0 Message-ID: <01C2C163.2482F340@sulfer.icius.com>  A Or, put another way: "Hey, Andrew, come help put together another  bandwidth-wasting thread!!!"   Please, no!    Shane    -----Original Message-----5 From: Fabio Cardoso [mailto:fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br] ' Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 3:37 PM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 7 Subject: (UNIX is OVER) was . . . Re: Alpha for HP UX ?      Reading some News site today:   5 HP sold US$ 2 billion dollars in Linux last year !=20   Hom much from HPUX / Tru64  ?=20  
 And OVMS ?  @ There is no escape ! The standard UNIX will die as the companies4 will consolidate processors (ex. Itanium or Opteron)  E May be SUN will be the last on with an owned processor. IBM will have A Itanium or Opteron servers. SGI will have Itanium servers. HP !!! - May be the Cobalt apliances can save SUN !=20    Regards    FC=20 5 --- JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote: H > With many HP UX customers formerly Digital customers who defected in = the H > 1990s, what percentage of the HP UX customer base would prefer HP UX = migrate ' > to Alpha intead of that Intel thing ?  >=20H > Would the head of the legacy department (Alpha, Tru64, VMS) have the = ability 2 > to conduct some polling of HP-UX customer base ? >=20F > While there is still a chance that Intel may not abandon IA64, and =	 there may A > still be a chance that IA64 might be able to keep up with the =  competition,J > nobody expects IA64 to become commodity, which was the main reason for = going   > that route in the first place. >=20E > Right now would be a great time for HP to relieve Intel of its IA64 	 shackles, E > and adopt Alpha for high end systems, and stick with the 8086 for =  wintelE > stuff, with Intel then releasing a competitor to Hammer in the 8086 
 architecture.      =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D L =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D  F=E1bio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazil  fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.brL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D   2 __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!?5 Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.  http://mailplus.yahoo.com    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 00:51:54 GMT ( From: Alder <PGDEHMKOKIMD@spammotel.com>= Subject: Re: Access linux and/or windows directories with vms , Message-ID: <3E2DEB28.8050905@spammotel.com>   Franz-Jrgen Tollmann wrote:= > "Alder" <TFTAJLLYMXZP@spammotel.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag 8 > news:a6840bf2.0301191835.1460bfa@posting.google.com... > 3 >>fdc@columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) wrote in message  >> >>K >>>Remember we are talking about PCs with Windows and a VMS server.  Kermit  >> > 95 > E >>>for Windows supports the following secure TCP/IP connection types:  >>>  >>> . SSL/TLS terminal sessions 3 >>> . Telnet, FTP, and HTTP secured with SSL or TLS D >>> . Telnet, Rlogin, and FTP secured with Kerberos IV or Kerberos V% >>> . Telnet and FTP secured with SRP  >>> . SSH v1 terminal sessions >>> . SSH v2 terminal sessions >>> I >>>Thus you can use practically any kind of security that is installed on  >> > VMS. > H >>I for one have no aversion to using a Windows telnet client capable ofB >>using Kerberos authentication and TLS encryption to connect fromD >>Windows to VMS.  Trouble is, what server options are available forC >>VMS?  This is a hobbyist talking, so freeware is what I'd prefer. 	 >>Anyone?  >  > 
 > Right!!! >  >    I thought so :-)   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 03:17:07 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")= Subject: Re: Access linux and/or windows directories with vms 6 Message-ID: <00A1A50A.2752526D@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  W In article <3E2DEB28.8050905@spammotel.com>, Alder <PGDEHMKOKIMD@spammotel.com> writes:  >Franz-Jrgen Tollmann wrote: > >> "Alder" <TFTAJLLYMXZP@spammotel.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag9 >> news:a6840bf2.0301191835.1460bfa@posting.google.com...  >>  4 >>>fdc@columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) wrote in message >>>  >>> L >>>>Remember we are talking about PCs with Windows and a VMS server.  Kermit >>>  >> 95  >>  F >>>>for Windows supports the following secure TCP/IP connection types: >>>>  >>>> . SSL/TLS terminal sessions4 >>>> . Telnet, FTP, and HTTP secured with SSL or TLSE >>>> . Telnet, Rlogin, and FTP secured with Kerberos IV or Kerberos V & >>>> . Telnet and FTP secured with SRP >>>> . SSH v1 terminal sessions  >>>> . SSH v2 terminal sessions  >>>>J >>>>Thus you can use practically any kind of security that is installed on >>>  >> VMS.  >>  I >>>I for one have no aversion to using a Windows telnet client capable of C >>>using Kerberos authentication and TLS encryption to connect from E >>>Windows to VMS.  Trouble is, what server options are available for D >>>VMS?  This is a hobbyist talking, so freeware is what I'd prefer.
 >>>Anyone? >>   >>   >> Right!!!  >>   >>   >  >I thought so :-)     N I've been away from computers for several days, so sorry I didn't respond moreM quickly.  I can't confirm your preconceptions.  It's there, and as a hobbyist  you can have it free.     N Multinet and TCPware from Process Software work with the Hobbyist license and M include up-to-date SSH1/ SSH2 / SCP support.  See the SPD on their web pages  & (process.com) for full descriptions.    L Multinet has had Kerberos support for years, but I don't use it so can't say much about it.  K There's also Dave Jones's freeware SSH server, which works really well but   doesn't support SSHv2.    O =============================================================================== 0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056 M  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025 O ===============================================================================    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 18:35:40 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>  Subject: Re: Alpha for HP UX ?G Message-ID: <0qgX9.61998$ej1.8976@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   = "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message ) news:3E2D8187.B1FAF10B@vl.videotron.ca... F > With many HP UX customers formerly Digital customers who defected in the F > 1990s, what percentage of the HP UX customer base would prefer HP UX migrate ' > to Alpha intead of that Intel thing ?  > F > Would the head of the legacy department (Alpha, Tru64, VMS) have the ability 2 > to conduct some polling of HP-UX customer base ? > D > While there is still a chance that Intel may not abandon IA64, and	 there may ? > still be a chance that IA64 might be able to keep up with the  competition,D > nobody expects IA64 to become commodity, which was the main reason	 for going   > that route in the first place. > E > Right now would be a great time for HP to relieve Intel of its IA64 	 shackles, C > and adopt Alpha for high end systems, and stick with the 8086 for  wintelE > stuff, with Intel then releasing a competitor to Hammer in the 8086 
 architecture.     D As much as it makes sense, it isn't going to happen. HP doesn't have the cojones to do it.    ------------------------------    Date: 21 Jan 2003 16:25:53 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) Subject: Re: Alpha for HP UX ?= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0301211625.5b04171b@posting.google.com>   g JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3E2D8187.B1FAF10B@vl.videotron.ca>... J > With many HP UX customers formerly Digital customers who defected in theN > 1990s, what percentage of the HP UX customer base would prefer HP UX migrate' > to Alpha intead of that Intel thing ?  > N > Would the head of the legacy department (Alpha, Tru64, VMS) have the ability2 > to conduct some polling of HP-UX customer base ? > N > While there is still a chance that Intel may not abandon IA64, and there mayL > still be a chance that IA64 might be able to keep up with the competition,N > nobody expects IA64 to become commodity, which was the main reason for going  > that route in the first place. > O > Right now would be a great time for HP to relieve Intel of its IA64 shackles, J > and adopt Alpha for high end systems, and stick with the 8086 for wintelS > stuff, with Intel then releasing a competitor to Hammer in the 8086 architecture.   : only if carly has the guts to do it ... but I am afraid hp' has NIH, not invented here syndrome ...    ------------------------------   Date: 22 Jan 2003 01:51:31 GMT# From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) + Subject: Re: ALphaServer 2100A Disk Options * Message-ID: <b0ktf3$j4f$3@web1.cup.hp.com>  [ In article <3E29C48A.5D6F8317@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:  :rob kas wrote:   1 :> I'm trying to keep our last VMS machine alive. O :> Does anyone know if the 9 Gig Disks will work in  AlphaServer 2100  Internal K :> RAID racks?   Failing that does anyone have a suggestion for adding Disk  :> Space to this old girl. : F :Raid arrays come up on eBay from time to time. May be worth a look. A0 :storage array with HSZs might be a good option.  K   The list of supported storage options for most members of the AlphaServer    series are available via:   &     http://www.compaq.com/alphaserver/  K   From memory, you'll need to navigate to the retired servers section, then I   the platform, then select the options list.  You should eventually find B   a search engine with a selection of sorting and display options.  K   I'd also look at an external StorageWorks disk array, only because of the K   thermal requirements of most newer disks may exceed the cooling abilities H   of the StorageWorks rack within the AlphaServer 2100A.  (I don't know L   off-hand if the StorageWorks enclosure within the AlphaServer 2100A seriesG   is or is not capable of cooling these faster and hotter disks -- the  I   options list mentioned above will give you some help here, particularly (   if it lists 7200 RPM or faster disks.)  H   Additionally (and obviously), if you have smaller disks around, retireJ   and replace them with larger disks.  (Don't solely concentrate on adding   spindles...)  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------J       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.comN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 00:52:09 GMT % From: "Tom Flick" <tomarg@cfl.rr.com>  Subject: automatic screensaver; Message-ID: <ZWlX9.27822$o8.584498@twister.tampabay.rr.com>   D I have an Alpha running OpenVMS 6.2.  How can I get a screensaver toH automatically appear if the mouse or keyboard has been idle for a while?   Tom F.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 17:15:49 -0800 $ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>" Subject: RE: automatic screensaver0 Message-ID: <01C2C170.C39B54B0@sulfer.icius.com>  B That depends on how you are accessing it. I'll assume you've got aF graphics head on it, if so there's a screensaver package complete with/ several display options on the VMS freeware CD. C http://www.openvms.compaq.com/freeware/freeware40/xscreensaver-126/    Enjoy.   Shane    -----Original Message-----* From: Tom Flick [mailto:tomarg@cfl.rr.com]' Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 4:52 PM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  Subject: automatic screensaver    D I have an Alpha running OpenVMS 6.2.  How can I get a screensaver toH automatically appear if the mouse or keyboard has been idle for a while?   Tom F.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 01:33:27 GMT % From: "Tom Flick" <tomarg@cfl.rr.com> " Subject: Re: automatic screensaver; Message-ID: <HxmX9.27836$o8.588468@twister.tampabay.rr.com>   = It needs to be password-protected, too, like the screen lock.   0 "Tom Flick" <tomarg@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message5 news:ZWlX9.27822$o8.584498@twister.tampabay.rr.com... F > I have an Alpha running OpenVMS 6.2.  How can I get a screensaver toJ > automatically appear if the mouse or keyboard has been idle for a while? >  > Tom F. >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 19:00:32 -0800 $ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>" Subject: RE: automatic screensaver0 Message-ID: <01C2C17F.68C91090@sulfer.icius.com>  D I believe you'll find the screensaver I pointed you to in my earlierC post has this feature. It's been a while since I've used it though.    Shane    -----Original Message-----* From: Tom Flick [mailto:tomarg@cfl.rr.com]' Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 5:33 PM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com " Subject: Re: automatic screensaver    = It needs to be password-protected, too, like the screen lock.   0 "Tom Flick" <tomarg@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message5 news:ZWlX9.27822$o8.584498@twister.tampabay.rr.com... F > I have an Alpha running OpenVMS 6.2.  How can I get a screensaver toJ > automatically appear if the mouse or keyboard has been idle for a while? >  > Tom F. >  >  >    ------------------------------    Date: 21 Jan 2003 16:50:42 -0600+ From: kuhrt@encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt) & Subject: cURL 7.10.3 available for VMS3 Message-ID: <+ny+VjVKE66Z@eisner.encompasserve.org>   9 The latest release of cURL, 7.10.3, is available for VMS. 8 See http://curl.haxx.se/ for information regarding cURL.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 21:52:27 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> : Subject: Re: DECLASER 3500 Treiber zu WIN XP oder WIN 2000' Message-ID: <3E2E157B.659F337C@fsi.net>    Bill Gunshannon wrote: > / > Not wanting to start a flamewar, but.........  > 5 > In article <FBtL+kZ5PYCP@eisner.encompasserve.org>, G >         koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: ] > > In article <3e2c4f82$1_2@news.bluewin.ch>, "Andr Zwygart" <trash.can@bluewin.ch> writes:  > > 6 > >    The primary language for this group is English. > C > I was waiting for the first comment like this I saw. Why am I not F > surprised it came from the US??  Why do so many people (particularlyC > in the US) believe that if you can't speak (or write) english you / > whould be excluded from the use of USENET??     5 Because they don't - no one said that in this thread.   C Bob Koehler said, "The primary language for this group is English."   - Note that: "primary language for this group".   A C.o.v. is not the whole of USENET. There are .de variants of many / groups, not to mention .es and other languages.   A Venting is o.k., we all do it at times. Be careful and try not to # embarass yourself, in any language.   F Oh, and by the way, Alan F.: "In simile modo" is Latin for "in similarE manner". You remember Latin, right? A must-know for many folks in the & sciences and some branches of history?   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------    Date: 21 Jan 2003 13:17:31 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)% Subject: Re: DECnet-Plus vs DECnet IV = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0301211317.1796ce47@posting.google.com>   d Lyndon Bartels <lbartels@pressenter.com> wrote in message news:<3E265315.1B4E98D7@pressenter.com>... > David J. Dachtera wrote: > >  > > Lyndon Bartels wrote:  > > >  > > > Hello, > > > N > > > I've been using DECnet Phase IV on all my machines. But it seems that toD > > > accomplish some of my goals, I need to move to DECnet Plus.... > >  > > Such as ... ?  > > @ > > That is, what do you need to do that DECnet-IV can't handle? > >  > I > I want to add a second pair if NICS to my servers. Retain TCP/IP on the I > "public" (read "current") network paths. Create a "private" network for E > DECnet, and eventually SCS traffic. This will make the network guys  > happy. > . > BUT.... I have to have everything redundant. >  > E > I was told by CSC that in order to accomplish this, I'd need DECnet  > Plus.  >  >  > Thanks in advance, >  > Lyndon  A if you are using TCPware, you can do anything you want, including  true phase IV over IP ...    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 21:43:47 +0100 6 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>; Subject: Re: EV7 hits, blows away Sun, IBM, 2-3x VMS gains! ) Message-ID: <3E2DB103.6070109@vajhoej.dk>    JF Mezei wrote:  > "Mark E. Levy" wrote: ; >>>well Mark, then you better tell that to www.openvms.org, 5 >>>because that is where I got it, and it is free ...  >>A >>That does NOT give you permission to re-post it on c.o.v., Bob.  > J > If the author gave permission for his article to be posted in a publiclyL > available web site such as www.____vms.org, I am not entirely sure that it- > would be so inapropriate to repost it here.    ????  0 If Terry wrote that text he has copyrigth to it.  8 If he gave www.openvms.org permission to put it on their+ web-site, then they got permission to that.   4  From the fact that it is a public web-site, then he/ has also given everybody permission to read it.   5 But there are no legal foundation to say that because 7 Terry has given www.openvms.org permission to put it on 9 their web-site, then he has also granted Bob C permission  to post it to comp.os.vms !    It is a violation of copyrigth.   1 I can not see any reasoon why Terry should make a 7 big fuzz about it though. Because he is not loosing any & potential income as fars as I can see.  N > If the poster had a subscription to the private newsletter and reposted themO > publicly without permission, then it would be a clear breach. But I am not so M > sure that it is such a big breach to take a publicly available document and   > post it on cov for discussion.    That is not how copyrigth works.  4 You are not allowed to copy material just because it
 is available.   G > Nobody makes money from cov, so the material here is just a forum for  > discussions.  , Not relevant for whether it is legal or not.  2 (may have a significant impact on what a breach of+ copyrigth would cost before a judge though)    Arne   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 21:56:37 GMT ( From: "Mark E. Levy" <mlevy70@attbi.com>; Subject: Re: EV7 hits, blows away Sun, IBM, 2-3x VMS gains! - Message-ID: <pmjX9.79008$kH3.12548@sccrnsc03>   5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message 7 news:d7791aa1.0301211032.426e6904@posting.google.com...   ? > Terry is trying to do what I am also ... promote VMS ... what = > are you, a windoze/linux idiot?  I am not attemping to make = > money from this, I have posted a article available for free 9 > on a free discussion board ... that is called the first , > ammendment ... you must be a communist ...  H And now we see why you're held in such high regard here, Boob. The FirstH Amendment has nothing to do with it. The First Amendment protects *your*; speech, not the copying of someone else's copyrighted work.   K I am a VMS bigot from way back. With your "steller" reputation, you're more J of a hinderance than a help. You don't understand the First Amendment, andJ you certainly don't understand chip technology. Do yourself a favor, Boob,I just shut up. VMS has a better chance of survival without idiots like you H promoting it. Like they say, with friends like you, who needs enemies...   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 17:22:55 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>; Subject: Re: EV7 hits, blows away Sun, IBM, 2-3x VMS gains! / Message-ID: <3E2DBA1D.D8A5B340@vl.videotron.ca>    "Mark E. Levy" wrote: L > you certainly don't understand chip technology. Do yourself a favor, Boob,K > just shut up. VMS has a better chance of survival without idiots like you J > promoting it. Like they say, with friends like you, who needs enemies...  @ Was it you who reminded him of the First ammendment in the USA ?  J I think that there is a question of fair use here. Posting an article in aK newsgroup does not invalidate the copyright of an article. The writer still J maintains rights over the article and ayone wanting to use it commercially' would still need to contact the author.   L But if an article is posted in a public forum, doesn't it become implicitely publicly distributable ?  5 (distributable does not change who owns the article).   K One may disagree with what Mr Ceculski says. But I have no problem with him L posting his opinions. If you want people with whom you do not share opinionsK to stop posting, perhaps you should go back in time, become a member of the I soviet union's communist party, enjoy all the benefits of luxuries, while ; being able to silence anyone whose opinions you don't like.   U Usenet was created for freedom of expression by everyone, and that MUST be respected.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 23:17:03 GMT ( From: "Mark E. Levy" <mlevy70@attbi.com>; Subject: Re: EV7 hits, blows away Sun, IBM, 2-3x VMS gains! ? Message-ID: <PxkX9.654114$GR5.462966@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>   = "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message ) news:3E2DBA1D.D8A5B340@vl.videotron.ca... B > Was it you who reminded him of the First ammendment in the USA ?  H No. That was not me. If he wants to author his own article, he's free toG post it anywhere he wants. He's not free to redistribute other's works,  irrespective of profit.   I > One may disagree with what Mr Ceculski says. But I have no problem with  him E > posting his opinions. If you want people with whom you do not share  opinionsI > to stop posting, perhaps you should go back in time, become a member of  the K > soviet union's communist party, enjoy all the benefits of luxuries, while = > being able to silence anyone whose opinions you don't like.   < He's not posting his opinions. He's posting everyone else's.   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Jan 2003 19:46 CDT ' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) , Subject: Re: Foreign mail question (code 19)- Message-ID: <21JAN200319462890@gerg.tamu.edu>   d In article <3E283316.EBC0ADED@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes... }Carl Perkins wrote:B }> >I get an function code value of 19  which I do not know about. }>   }> From MAILDEF.H:Q }> #define MAIL$_SEND_USERNAME 19          /* Username to add to the "To" list */  }  } J }That is for the callable mail interface, not the foreign mail protocol. I0 }looked there first, but the codes do not match.  / Oh well. I guess that would have been too easy.    --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 20:57:08 -0500 # From: "Hal Kuff" <kuff@comcast.net> ) Subject: Galaxy support Profile for ES80? O Message-ID: <BADE2849CBA500D2.2B9DEA68AE01B2BA.8483892FFE446D18@lp.airnews.net>   K     Does anyone have the Galaxy support profile for ES80 systems...? I hear L that software partitions only are supported... that doesn't seem right givenD the isolation possible with the PCI bus architecture on the ES80...?   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 19:55:01 GMT % From: Tony Lawrence <tony@pcunix.com>  Subject: Re: How to Backup OSX/ Message-ID: <pAhX9.774093$WL3.765385@rwcrnsc54>    Rob Young wrote:Y > In article <_0cX9.770577$P31.567195@rwcrnsc53>, Tony Lawrence <tony@pcunix.com> writes:  >  >>Rob Young wrote: >>X >>>In article <o4ZW9.62086$Yq3.12889@sccrnsc02>, Tony Lawrence <tony@pcunix.com> writes: >>>  >>>  >>>>Rob Young wrote:  G >>>	If you can list it via a show command, you can restore it.  Period.  >>>  >>H >>I wouldn't count on that without knowing the details of the software. D >>For example, many a person has beeen led down the path of doom by G >>assuming that a "tar tvf" listing was sufficient indication that the  ) >>files listed could in fact be restored.  >> >  > @ > 	Please don't insult us.  One of the worst features of Eunuchs0 > 	is a pitiful backup design (or lack thereof).  F I'm sorry, you misunderstand.  The reason I included the reference to B tar was to make it plain that I was not saying that your specific G assertion was invalid, but rather that people cannot rely on that as a  % general fact.  Sorry to upset you :-)   F As to Unix backup, I have no idea what "backup design" is inherent to , the OS.   There isn't.  Nor should there be.     > ? > 	Yes, it is possible to write something and know it got there & > 	and to know you can read it back.   >  > G >>I think a fault tolerant database (though too pricey for most of us)  G >>combined with offsite copies is certainly a reasonable backup method.  >>H >>That doesn't necessarily change anything though: it's still better to G >>backup everything every single time unless it is impossible to do so.  >  > @ > 	But that is mostly unrealistic.  The problem is with 200, 400F > 	, 500 clients (servers) and the storage associated with them, there> > 	aren't enough hours in the day to backup everything all the: > 	time.  Secondly, and just as importantly, to shrink theE > 	backup window... if the file isn't changing, why not skip backing  F > 	it up?  This is a problem.  What if your only copy goes bad?  Well F > 	let us make sure we have a fault tolerant backup solution and lets * > 	make sure we do a daily DR migration.    D Again, I have said this over and over again:  SOMETIMES THERE IS NO L OTHER OPTION TO INCREMENTAL BACKUP BECAUSE OF LIMITATIONS OF SPACE AND TIME.  I Why is it necessary to repeat this over and over?  Is the attention span   here really that short?      > > > 	This isn't everybody, it is larger shops.  You most likely G > 	wouldn't have an Enterprise Backup product if you are small.  There  B > 	is a transition point where even with 20-80 servers things get  > 	unwieldy. >  > I >>However, that does depend on how the offsite copies are generated.  If  E >>they are in fact full copies of everything, then this method would  H >>satisfy me: the backup is indirect, but it is still complete.  If the A >>copies are incrementals,, then you have the same silliness and  4 >>difficulties of the more common tape incrementals. >  > ; > 	I'm not a TSM administrator.  I do know DR migration (or 2 > 	offsite) takes about 3-4 hours and begins after> > 	all backups are complete.  This keeps your DR copy in synch > 	with what is onsite.  > < > 	You might have better results in shooting holes in TSM if: > 	you read a bit more about it.  Here is the de facto TSM+ > 	admin site, seems to be a good resource:x    F The fact is, my argument has absolutely nothing to do with TSM.  That B product is completely irrelevant to this discussion because it is E nothing but a convenient go-between to the real backup, which is the cG archival of the TSM database.  You may very well think of that as yout 7I backup, and it may even function as such under normal conditions, but it  @ is conceptually no different (though of course practically very K different) than simply copying data to a network drive and backing up THAT.   G If you backup the TSM incrementally, then you are cruising for trouble B" for all the reasons I outlined at I http://aplawrence.com/Unixart/diffback.html.  If you are in fact backing SH that up non-incrementally, then you are in fact doing complete backups: C the fact that the TSM feed is incremental is completly unimportant.S             -- c
 Tony Lawrenceo, Free SCO, Mac OS X and  Linux Skills Tests: % http://aplawrence.com/skillstest.html    ------------------------------    Date: 21 Jan 2003 14:49:54 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)t Subject: Re: How to Backup OSX3 Message-ID: <x4xKDXN+DvpJ@eisner.encompasserve.org>p  W In article <pAhX9.774093$WL3.765385@rwcrnsc54>, Tony Lawrence <tony@pcunix.com> writes:  > Rob Young wrote:   >> b= >> 	You might have better results in shooting holes in TSM ife; >> 	you read a bit more about it.  Here is the de facto TSM , >> 	admin site, seems to be a good resource: >  > H > The fact is, my argument has absolutely nothing to do with TSM.  That D > product is completely irrelevant to this discussion because it is G > nothing but a convenient go-between to the real backup, which is the e! > archival of the TSM database.      	No.  * > You may very well think of that as yout K > backup, and it may even function as such under normal conditions, but it fB > is conceptually no different (though of course practically very M > different) than simply copying data to a network drive and backing up THAT.s > I > If you backup the TSM incrementally, then you are cruising for trouble P$ > for all the reasons I outlined at K > http://aplawrence.com/Unixart/diffback.html.  If you are in fact backing pJ > that up non-incrementally, then you are in fact doing complete backups: E > the fact that the TSM feed is incremental is completly unimportant.g >   C 	You aren't "backing up the TSM incrementally".  TSM has a databaseA< 	that tracks all changes/files and each tape and disk in the@ 	various pools are dependent on the database to track them.  The; 	database itself is copied and DR migrated every day.  And oE 	no, you aren't doing complete backups as the servers it is tracking  ; 	are sending files that have been modified/changed, you arei 	performing incrementals:d  9 http://adsm.nerdc.ufl.edu/local/incrementals-forever.htmld  L Every backup in TSM is viewed as an incremental, even the first. The initialN backup is simply an incremental in which, coincidentally, every file is neededM to be copied. Thereafter, the backup client downloads a list of all the filesfK and modification times that are recorded on the server. This map is used tog! determine what should be copied. e  F 	And yes, if you narrow down to the small world you are talking about,C 	do full backups of everything all the time - because you can, and n3 	because they are easier to understand and support!s   				Robh   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 21:05:45 GMTn% From: Tony Lawrence <tony@pcunix.com>  Subject: Re: How to Backup OSX/ Message-ID: <JCiX9.775606$P31.573375@rwcrnsc53>e   Rob Young wrote:Y > In article <pAhX9.774093$WL3.765385@rwcrnsc54>, Tony Lawrence <tony@pcunix.com> writes:o >  >>Rob Young wrote: >  > = >>>	You might have better results in shooting holes in TSM if-; >>>	you read a bit more about it.  Here is the de facto TSMa, >>>	admin site, seems to be a good resource: >> >>H >>The fact is, my argument has absolutely nothing to do with TSM.  That D >>product is completely irrelevant to this discussion because it is G >>nothing but a convenient go-between to the real backup, which is the o! >>archival of the TSM database.  o >  >  > 	No.   Yes :-)   I TSM is just a more sophisticated method of copying files to another hard aE drive.  As you well know, as convenient and wonderful as that is, it NI puts all your eggs in one basket and would be completely unacceptable if t1 it were not backed up to removable media in turn.      >  > * >>You may very well think of that as yout K >>backup, and it may even function as such under normal conditions, but it nB >>is conceptually no different (though of course practically very M >>different) than simply copying data to a network drive and backing up THAT.  >>I >>If you backup the TSM incrementally, then you are cruising for trouble r$ >>for all the reasons I outlined at K >>http://aplawrence.com/Unixart/diffback.html.  If you are in fact backing sJ >>that up non-incrementally, then you are in fact doing complete backups: E >>the fact that the TSM feed is incremental is completly unimportant.o >> >  > E > 	You aren't "backing up the TSM incrementally".  TSM has a databaseu> > 	that tracks all changes/files and each tape and disk in theB > 	various pools are dependent on the database to track them.  The= > 	database itself is copied and DR migrated every day.  And wG > 	no, you aren't doing complete backups as the servers it is tracking e= > 	are sending files that have been modified/changed, you arer > 	performing incrementals:   > You are missing what I am saying: how you send data to TSM is < irrelevant.  How you backup TSM ITSELF is what is important.     > ; > http://adsm.nerdc.ufl.edu/local/incrementals-forever.htmlp > N > Every backup in TSM is viewed as an incremental, even the first. The initialP > backup is simply an incremental in which, coincidentally, every file is neededO > to be copied. Thereafter, the backup client downloads a list of all the fileseM > and modification times that are recorded on the server. This map is used toe# > determine what should be copied. l > H > 	And yes, if you narrow down to the small world you are talking about,E > 	do full backups of everything all the time - because you can, and  5 > 	because they are easier to understand and support!   I Which is what I have been saying.  But there's more reason than that, as SI I detailed at http://aplawrence.com/Unixart/diffbacks.html : damage to a =D tape in the middle of an incremental set can be a very serious loss H because the next valid tape that has certain data may be much older and G in some cases (related files) may cause the entire set to be abandoned.n  ' Been there, seen that.  More than once.u   -- r
 Tony Lawrence , Free SCO, Mac OS X and  Linux Skills Tests: % http://aplawrence.com/skillstest.htmle   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Jan 2003 15:34:50 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)  Subject: Re: How to Backup OSX3 Message-ID: <lZlGvXhDQJ1e@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <JCiX9.775606$P31.573375@rwcrnsc53>, Tony Lawrence <tony@pcunix.com> writes:p > Rob Young wrote:  I >> 	And yes, if you narrow down to the small world you are talking about, F >> 	do full backups of everything all the time - because you can, and 6 >> 	because they are easier to understand and support! > K > Which is what I have been saying.  But there's more reason than that, as iK > I detailed at http://aplawrence.com/Unixart/diffbacks.html : damage to a  F > tape in the middle of an incremental set can be a very serious loss J > because the next valid tape that has certain data may be much older and I > in some cases (related files) may cause the entire set to be abandoned.n > ) > Been there, seen that.  More than once.  >   > 	Yes, in your small world.  The TSM backend is fault tolerant,< 	keep that in mind.  I'm sure there is a document explaining9 	how it works somewhere but you really aren't interested.3   				Rob3   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Jan 2003 15:48:21 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)_ Subject: Re: How to Backup OSX3 Message-ID: <o+mk4UU9iTSU@eisner.encompasserve.org>/  a In article <lZlGvXhDQJ1e@eisner.encompasserve.org>, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes: Y > In article <JCiX9.775606$P31.573375@rwcrnsc53>, Tony Lawrence <tony@pcunix.com> writes:t >> Rob Young wrote:3 > J >>> 	And yes, if you narrow down to the small world you are talking about,G >>> 	do full backups of everything all the time - because you can, and 57 >>> 	because they are easier to understand and support!r >> aL >> Which is what I have been saying.  But there's more reason than that, as L >> I detailed at http://aplawrence.com/Unixart/diffbacks.html : damage to a G >> tape in the middle of an incremental set can be a very serious loss sK >> because the next valid tape that has certain data may be much older and lJ >> in some cases (related files) may cause the entire set to be abandoned. >> d* >> Been there, seen that.  More than once. >>   > @ > 	Yes, in your small world.  The TSM backend is fault tolerant,> > 	keep that in mind.  I'm sure there is a document explaining; > 	how it works somewhere but you really aren't interested.f >   ? 	Clarifying.  A tape may fail while writing to it.  That counts>= 	as a miss.  You have to run the backup again from the clientfB 	side.  The tape that failed twin comes back from offsite to synch	 	back up.o   				Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 21:36:58 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>o Subject: Re: How to Backup OSX' Message-ID: <3E2E11DA.31671819@fsi.net>:   Tony Lawrence wrote: >  > Howard S Shubs wrote: 1 > > In article <Lj%W9.71429$1q3.10159@sccrnsc01>,.+ > >  Tony Lawrence <tony@pcunix.com> wrote:l > >, > >rJ > >>I have no idea what you are referring to.  Many businesses have a 8 toH > >>16 hour window in which to do backup.  If their entire system can beA > >>backed up to removable media in that time frame, they are not.! > >>constrained by space or time.e > >  > > H > > In my experience, this is vanishingly rare.  Most people like to getI > > home rather than watch tapes spin, even if they can take down time in/$ > > order to get a nice cold backup. > >t > J > I must be an idiot.  I've been arguing with you about the relative valueI > of backup methods and you obviously are so wet behind the ears that youe# > think people do backups manually.H  . If you know how to automate backups including:   o Shutdown the running systeme o Boot up the stand-alone CD o Kick-off a system-disk backup>! o Shutdown the stand-alone systema1 o Reboot the live, production system, sans app.'s ) o Backup the production application diskse o Restart the applications.>  G ...you'll not only become a very wealthy man, you'll fulfill the dreamsS of many denizens of this group.   E Actually, I could see doing that with a very sophisticated Reflection & script (RCL or RBS, take your choice).  9 Oh, yeah, there's that zero-downtime thing to consider...e   -- o David J. Dachtera' dba DJE Systemse http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/r   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 22:12:58 -0500/' From: Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net>r Subject: Re: How to Backup OSX< Message-ID: <howard-352F88.22125821012003@enews.newsguy.com>  ? In article <mEbX9.648345$GR5.448636@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>,l'  Tony Lawrence <tony@pcunix.com> wrote:h   > I make my living doing this.  4 I do system management for a living these days, yes.    " > I work with dozens of different 8 > backup systems from tape to dvd to jukeboxes.  Do you?  F Backups at my current location are mainly done by others in my group, ? using TSM and a good sized robotic solution tied to an AIX box.     J >   and upgrades on multiple OS platforms from TRSDOS to Microsoft Xenix, 6 > DOS, Windows NT, SCO, Solaris, and Linux.  Have you?  H I've worked with Mac and VMS, mainly.  Done a little with Linux and AIX 2 as well.  I skip the MS stuff as much as possible.    K > I'm sorry to get so rabid.  I'm willing to at least respect the opinions oK > of someone like the VMS admin who posted earlier, though I disagree with .F > his reliance on a database based incremental backup.  I'm no longer 7 > willing to give any respect to your opinions on this.b   As you wish.     > "In your experience" indeed.  ( You'd prefer I didn't use the qualifier?   --  4 Today, on Paper-view: The World Origami Championship   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 22:16:53 -0500s' From: Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net>n Subject: Re: How to Backup OSX< Message-ID: <howard-3C23BE.22165321012003@enews.newsguy.com>  - In article <fC9X9.68244$Yq3.14360@sccrnsc02>,t'  Tony Lawrence <tony@pcunix.com> wrote:   G > Who sits and watches tapes spin?  Cron jobs do the whole thing - the    ' Okay, so I used a weak argument.  Geez.    --  4 Today, on Paper-view: The World Origami Championship   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 05:35:31 GMTe From: rivie@RIvie.no.domain 5 Subject: Re: How to flash VAXstation 4000/90 FEPROMS?e2 Message-ID: <slrnb2g745.1mm.rivie@RIvie.no.domain>  O In article <c5cf6e8.0301160711.78023012@posting.google.com>, Baby Peanut wrote:.D > I'd be upset too if I was a field service engineer with a firmwareG > upgrade kit and I found someone unsoldered the chips to fix a problem@8 > which can be corrected by using MOP to boot a utility.  F Actually, in my case I had actually _erased_ one of the EPROMs, so the0 machine couldn't come up far enough to MOP boot. --  
 Roger Ivie ivie@cc.usu.eduf   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 13:57:03 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>6 Subject: Re: HP Sets the Stage for Alpha's Last Hurrah/ Message-ID: <3E2D89EB.EE4F39F4@vl.videotron.ca>    Fred Kleinsorge wrote:J > Let me rephrase the "imply a theft" comment - to "imply the unauthorizedK > disclosure of HP confidential material".  You might let your sources knowt@ > that it's all fun and games until someone finds out who it is.  L How do you know that what Mr Magee publishes was "illegally" obtained ? WhatL if HP management decide to leak stuff on purpose ?  There are many scenariosH where HP management's hands are tied, but if some public outrage happensK higher management may have to rethink their plans. By arranging for certainIK information to be leaked, the middle management are not seen as "rebels" by = upper management (eg: job safety) but still get the job done.    ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 20:09:23 +0100 (MET)h9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> 6 Subject: Re: HP Sets the Stage for Alpha's Last Hurrah; Message-ID: <01KRICB2R28896VR7Q@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>>  L > > Let me rephrase the "imply a theft" comment - to "imply the unauthorizedM > > disclosure of HP confidential material".  You might let your sources know>B > > that it's all fun and games until someone finds out who it is. > I > How do you know that what Mr Magee publishes was "illegally" obtained ?oI > What if HP management decide to leak stuff on purpose ?  There are manySD > scenarios where HP management's hands are tied, but if some publicG > outrage happens higher management may have to rethink their plans. By G > arranging for certain information to be leaked, the middle management I > are not seen as "rebels" by upper management (eg: job safety) but still  > get the job done.   G I understood Fred to be saying that those acting wrongly are those who aD leak the information, not those who get it (hence "let your sources  know").S   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 18:41:08 GMTd# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> 6 Subject: Re: HP Sets the Stage for Alpha's Last HurrahH Message-ID: <8vgX9.62038$ej1.38763@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  D "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star-dot-zko-dot-dec-dot-com> wrote in. message news:3e2d8de0_2@hpb10302.boi.hp.com...< > "Mike Magee" <mike.magee@theinquirer.net> wrote in message9 > news:9745423a.0301180629.2065e29f@posting.google.com...gE > > "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star-dot-zko-dot-dec-dot-com> wrote- in4 > message news:<3e26edfe$1_2@hpb10302.boi.hp.com>...9 > > > > and the recent Inquirer article purports to quote-B > > > > an internal cHumPaq source as saying that indeed EV7 would
 *not* haveB > > > > shipped save for some government commitments with teeth in them.  Now,- > I-/ > > > > don't presume to vouch for that source,  > > >iC > > > Inquirer reports should always be taken with a large grain of  salt.  I > haveF > > > seen everything from remarkably accurate statements that imply a theft  > ofD > > > internal slides, to statements that can only have been made by people? > > > without a clue, probably based on some third hand hallway 
 conversation,3 > and4* > > > also by people with an axe to grind. > >u? > > I don't mind how much salt you take as long as you read thes	 INQUIRER..8 > > But I never steal anything -- and do resent that.... > >o >e@ > I can't say I "read" the INQUIRER, mostly it's a reaction to a
 comment ofC > "did you see blah-blah-blah".  However, that means you are havings some4 > success, at least in some quarters.  Good for you. > = > Let me rephrase the "imply a theft" comment - to "imply theo unauthorizedF > disclosure of HP confidential material".  You might let your sources know@ > that it's all fun and games until someone finds out who it is.  0 Any organization has a right to confidentiality.D Any organization that resorts to 'witch hunts' is in greater trouble than they'd care to admit.  = Far better that an organization is candid with its customers.m   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Jan 2003 19:23:53 GMT( From: nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren)6 Subject: Re: HP Sets the Stage for Alpha's Last Hurrah0 Message-ID: <b0k6o9$1i1$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>  , In article <3e2d8de0_2@hpb10302.boi.hp.com>,@ Fred Kleinsorge <kleinsorge@star-dot-zko-dot-dec-dot-com> wrote:; >"Mike Magee" <mike.magee@theinquirer.net> wrote in message 8 >news:9745423a.0301180629.2065e29f@posting.google.com...G >> "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star-dot-zko-dot-dec-dot-com> wrote in13 >message news:<3e26edfe$1_2@hpb10302.boi.hp.com>... 8 >> > > and the recent Inquirer article purports to quoteL >> > > an internal cHumPaq source as saying that indeed EV7 would *not* haveM >> > > shipped save for some government commitments with teeth in them.  Now,i >I. >> > > don't presume to vouch for that source, >> >K >> > Inquirer reports should always be taken with a large grain of salt.  I  >havenK >> > seen everything from remarkably accurate statements that imply a theftp >ofrJ >> > internal slides, to statements that can only have been made by peopleL >> > without a clue, probably based on some third hand hallway conversation, >and) >> > also by people with an axe to grind.  >>H >> I don't mind how much salt you take as long as you read the INQUIRER.7 >> But I never steal anything -- and do resent that....- >-J >I can't say I "read" the INQUIRER, mostly it's a reaction to a comment ofG >"did you see blah-blah-blah".  However, that means you are having some+3 >success, at least in some quarters.  Good for you.r >aI >Let me rephrase the "imply a theft" comment - to "imply the unauthorizedfJ >disclosure of HP confidential material".  You might let your sources know? >that it's all fun and games until someone finds out who it is.m  - So you are saying that the statement is true?   > For, if it were not true, then it would not be HP confidential material, would it? :-)      Regards, Nick Maclaren,* University of Cambridge Computing Service,> New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QH, England. Email:  nmm1@cam.ac.uk/ Tel.:  +44 1223 334761    Fax:  +44 1223 3346791   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 03:10:35 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")6 Subject: Re: HP Sets the Stage for Alpha's Last Hurrah6 Message-ID: <00A1A509.3D7AB48D@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  Q In article <b0famq022e7@drn.newsguy.com>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes: G >In article <3e2957e6$0$225$626a54ce@news.free.fr>, PRSTSC::DTL says...  >> >>Paul Sture wrote:e >>>  >>> 0 >>> UK English: "There's no smoke without fire." >>>  >>) >>French English: "Pas de fumee sans feu"i >r0 >"Flamma fumo est proxima" in the original Latin  H Or, as Flanders and Swann had it when the topical reference was current:  "Nil combustibus pro fumo".   -- Alans    O ===============================================================================w0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056cM  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025mO ===============================================================================w   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 09:02:55 +08000+ From: "Kenneth" <yeung_kenneth@hotmail.com>B5 Subject: Interrupt stack with EMC fibre channel diskse* Message-ID: <b0i68h$cmj1@rain.i-cable.com>  J I am using VMS 7.2-1 with the EMC fibre channel disks, the interrupt stackH for CPU-0 may go up as high as 50% of the CPU. Is there any relationship< between them and is there any way I can minimise it. Thanks.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 15:38:06 -0600 ( From: David Harrold <DHarrold@wi.rr.com>9 Subject: Re: Interrupt stack with EMC fibre channel disks 8 Message-ID: <69fr2vop231sm8auk4mb6etqufl5povgmh@4ax.com>  I On Tue, 21 Jan 2003 09:02:55 +0800, "Kenneth" <yeung_kenneth@hotmail.com>t wrote:  K >I am using VMS 7.2-1 with the EMC fibre channel disks, the interrupt stackrI >for CPU-0 may go up as high as 50% of the CPU. Is there any relationshipy= >between them and is there any way I can minimise it. Thanks.. >   K Don't do I/O?  :-)  IIRC, in V7.2-1, Fibre Channel wasn't fast path enabled M yet, so all of the processing happened on CPU0.  There really wasn't a way to  move that load anywhere else.n  M About the only option to help you is upgrade to V7.3 to get fast path I/O foru Fibre Channel.   HTH,   Dave Harrold    N ..............................................................................N David Harrold                              E-Mail: David_Harrold at aurora.orgI Sr. Software Systems Engineer              Phone:          (414) 647-6204 I                                            Pager:          (414) 941-4634 G Aurora Health Care                         Fax:          (414) 647-4999  3031 W. Montana Street Milwaukee, WI 53215r   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Jan 2003 19:53:00 -0800# From: wmarsh@etrade.com (Wil Marsh) 9 Subject: Re: Interrupt stack with EMC fibre channel disks = Message-ID: <36f52bd6.0301211953.5fa7cf14@posting.google.com>e  ] "Kenneth" <yeung_kenneth@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<b0i68h$cmj1@rain.i-cable.com>...FL > I am using VMS 7.2-1 with the EMC fibre channel disks, the interrupt stackJ > for CPU-0 may go up as high as 50% of the CPU. Is there any relationship> > between them and is there any way I can minimise it. Thanks.  F FastPath support for fiberchannel is in 7.3, allows you to balance the@ I/O processing across multiple cpus. Nothing to help with 7.2-1,   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Jan 2003 12:00:15 -0800' From: taupin974@hotmail.com (taupin974)o Subject: Re: Is that possiblef= Message-ID: <f948cf20.0301211200.6da4070c@posting.google.com>p  & So there is only simh which is free ?!1 Where can i download a version of this software ?   ^ david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb) wrote in message news:<b0jf5m$e3h$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>...i > In article <f948cf20.0301201022.382b1d62@posting.google.com>, taupin974@hotmail.com (taupin974) writes: 8 > >And what emulator are avable on my pc with windows ?! > >l > P > Well I believe ts10 is linux only  however simh runs on Microsloth inoperative/ > systems as well as on linux and other systemsb > 1 > See http://simh.trailing-edge.com/hardware.html  >  > " B > The simulators have been tested in the following environments :- > , > Windows 9x/NT/2000 (Visual C++, Mingw gcc) > .R > .7 > ., >  > "a > F > and if you want a commercial rather than public domain product then ' > charon-vax runs on Windows NT/2000/XPw >  > sees > = > http://www.softresint.com/charon-vax/product_evaluation.htm  >  >  > David Webb > VMS and Unix team leader > CCSS > Middlesex University   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 23:16:59 +0000 (UTC)a+ From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb)s Subject: Re: Is that possibleh+ Message-ID: <b0kkdb$ppj$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>u  g In article <f948cf20.0301211200.6da4070c@posting.google.com>, taupin974@hotmail.com (taupin974) writes: ' >So there is only simh which is free ?!t2 >Where can i download a version of this software ? >y  ! Well the source is available fromo4 http://simh.trailing-edge.com/sources/simhv210-2.zip  G Whether there are prebuilt binaries (so you wouldn't need visual c++ ora Mingw gcc) I don't know.    
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University    _ >david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb) wrote in message news:<b0jf5m$e3h$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>... j >> In article <f948cf20.0301201022.382b1d62@posting.google.com>, taupin974@hotmail.com (taupin974) writes:9 >> >And what emulator are avable on my pc with windows ?!R >> > >> ,Q >> Well I believe ts10 is linux only  however simh runs on Microsloth inoperative.0 >> systems as well as on linux and other systems >> n2 >> See http://simh.trailing-edge.com/hardware.html >> u >> "C >> The simulators have been tested in the following environments :-  >> t- >> Windows 9x/NT/2000 (Visual C++, Mingw gcc)h >> . >> . >> . >> a >> " >> oG >> and if you want a commercial rather than public domain product then i( >> charon-vax runs on Windows NT/2000/XP >> l >> see >> r> >> http://www.softresint.com/charon-vax/product_evaluation.htm >>   >> n
 >> David Webbe >> VMS and Unix team leadern >> CCSSi >> Middlesex Universityl   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Jan 2003 21:35:12 -0800' From: taupin974@hotmail.com (taupin974)  Subject: Re: Is that possibles= Message-ID: <f948cf20.0301212135.2e2e23ef@posting.google.com>i  7 i've tried to built all the files, but it doesn't work.t2 i've already read the simh installation procedure.  ^ david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb) wrote in message news:<b0kkdb$ppj$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>...i > In article <f948cf20.0301211200.6da4070c@posting.google.com>, taupin974@hotmail.com (taupin974) writes:e) > >So there is only simh which is free ?! 4 > >Where can i download a version of this software ? > >  > # > Well the source is available from-6 > http://simh.trailing-edge.com/sources/simhv210-2.zip > I > Whether there are prebuilt binaries (so you wouldn't need visual c++ ora > Mingw gcc) I don't know. >  >  > David Webb > VMS and Unix team leader > CCSS > Middlesex University >  >.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 01:22:25 -0400t0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>6 Subject: Re: Itanium with alpha goodies on the way .../ Message-ID: <3E2E2A90.20A5F957@vl.videotron.ca>    Shane Smith wrote:I > put it past them. If that's the case, it's possible the 2005 chip could  > have some Alpha inheritance.  L More likely that the 8086 will have some Alpha inheritance since the 8086 is< philosophically more compatible to Alpha than the epic IA64.  K Also, between the time Palmer gave away some of Alpha to Intel and the timeoB Curly donated the remains to Intel, was there much done to Alpha ?  J I.E. what could Curly have given to Intel that Intel hadn't already gotten
 from Palmer ?o   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 21:42:46 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>e Subject: Re: Marvel PerformanceF' Message-ID: <3E2E1336.1FD20235@fsi.net>D   John Smith wrote:g > B > "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in7 > message news:7Iy9+JxUW2AN@eisner.encompasserve.org...k > > In articleE > <tO_W9.54278$ej1.11631@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John>! > Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:S > > >RG > > > It's farcical - HP has the best/fastest general purpose computingsF > > > architecture in Alpha, and the best/reliable o/s in VMS and they > goC > > > out of their way to downplay, obfuscate, and generally ignore  > every < > > > opportunity to market these products to new customers. > >uE > >    See today's Oracle add for someone who knows how to advertise.u > >: > B > *Everybody* else knows how to advertise better. But even I would6 > settle for *some* VMS advertising no matter how bad. > G > In my area, HP is running useless t.v. advertising - a 30 second spotfG > showing an astronaut  in space suit wandering down a highway until he G > reaches his home, with some drivel voice-over about nothing memorable-0 > enough for me to quote or even allude to here. > D > Some 2nd-year film major at a junior college could whip together aH > gonzo ad or two for Alphaservers and VMS so fast and so effective thatD > it would knock your socks off. Something that would actually causeF > heads to turn, notice to be take, and sales to be made. They'd do itH > for the price of a few cases of beer and some blank video tape or 35mm > stock. > * > But of course HP can't have that happen. >  > Ad 1 > -----n> > Pictures of Florida hurricane evacuation - highways clogged.% > Pictures of earthquake devastation.h9 > Voiceover: "Your business can't avoid the unavoidable."w >  > Pictures of explosions.i  > Pictures of buildings on fire.< > Voiceover: "Your business can't predict the unpredictable" >  > Pictures of Marvel. 8 > Voiceover: " But your business can choose hardware andD >                    software that make events like these immaterial5 >                    to the survival of your company.t > = >                   Servers and OpenVMS software from HP havei< >                   been keeping companies in business after > catastrophic( >                   events for 25 years.    Picture: Toaster, bread in slots  1 >                   All those 'other' companies, s  " Picture: Toaster, toast popping up  + >                   ...they're just toast."w  4 Picture: OpenVMS logo dominant, HP logo sub-dominant  + 		OpenVMS - when downtime is not an option.o  2 > Copyright 2003, John Smith. All Rights Reserved.  8 Additions (C)2003 David J Dachtera, All Rights Reserved.   -- e David J. Dachteraa dba DJE Systemsg http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 04:08:34 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>a Subject: Re: Marvel Performance H Message-ID: <6PoX9.68396$ej1.13359@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3E2E1336.1FD20235@fsi.net...  > John Smith wrote:  > >pD > > "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in9 > > message news:7Iy9+JxUW2AN@eisner.encompasserve.org...l > > > In articleA > > <tO_W9.54278$ej1.11631@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,o "Johni# > > Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:I > > > >R? > > > > It's farcical - HP has the best/fastest general purposes	 computingrC > > > > architecture in Alpha, and the best/reliable o/s in VMS and  they > > goE > > > > out of their way to downplay, obfuscate, and generally ignore 	 > > every > > > > > opportunity to market these products to new customers. > > >r< > > >    See today's Oracle add for someone who knows how to
 advertise. > > >> > >eD > > *Everybody* else knows how to advertise better. But even I would8 > > settle for *some* VMS advertising no matter how bad. > >uD > > In my area, HP is running useless t.v. advertising - a 30 second spotF > > showing an astronaut  in space suit wandering down a highway until he? > > reaches his home, with some drivel voice-over about nothingn	 memorablem2 > > enough for me to quote or even allude to here. > >eF > > Some 2nd-year film major at a junior college could whip together aE > > gonzo ad or two for Alphaservers and VMS so fast and so effectiveh thatF > > it would knock your socks off. Something that would actually causeE > > heads to turn, notice to be take, and sales to be made. They'd doe itE > > for the price of a few cases of beer and some blank video tape ora 35mm
 > > stock. > >l, > > But of course HP can't have that happen. > >h > > Ad 1	 > > -----g@ > > Pictures of Florida hurricane evacuation - highways clogged.' > > Pictures of earthquake devastation.t; > > Voiceover: "Your business can't avoid the unavoidable."r > >o > > Pictures of explosions.t" > > Pictures of buildings on fire.> > > Voiceover: "Your business can't predict the unpredictable" > >d > > Pictures of Marvel. : > > Voiceover: " But your business can choose hardware andF > >                    software that make events like these immaterial7 > >                    to the survival of your company.  > >u? > >                   Servers and OpenVMS software from HP have > > >                   been keeping companies in business after > > catastrophic* > >                   events for 25 years. > " > Picture: Toaster, bread in slots >.2 > >                   All those 'other' companies, > $ > Picture: Toaster, toast popping up > - > >                   ...they're just toast.": >:6 > Picture: OpenVMS logo dominant, HP logo sub-dominant >a+ > OpenVMS - when downtime is not an option.7 >84 > > Copyright 2003, John Smith. All Rights Reserved. > : > Additions (C)2003 David J Dachtera, All Rights Reserved. >s    D Just as long as the toast is burned and one slice has an IBM logo on% it, and the other has a Sun logo. :-)b   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 23:30:20 GMTh9 From: Alan Adams <alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>a" Subject: Re: Multinet FTP Question? Message-ID: <d3ce81b84b.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>   ) In message <JzcX9.201$84.74771@localhost> 7           "Jeff Barnes" <barnesjw@dfo-mpo.gc.ca> wrote:a  G > Part-time OpenVMS administrator seeking answer to difficult question.  > N > A particular user receives the following error when trying to FTP to OpenVMS! > server 6.2-1H3 (Multinet V3.2).i > / > 520 %CDU-E-OPENIN, error opening !AS as input  > 6 > All assistance is appreciated.  Thank you in advance >  > Barnesjw@dfo-mpo.gc.ca  O CDU is the Command Definition Utility, used when issuing a SET COMMAND command.t= It seems to be complaining about a file it is trying to open.uL Check the user's LOGIN.COM on the server, and while you are there, check anyL log files the FTP server may have. With Multinet, I don't know whether these would be per user, or central.  J It may be that a required file doesn't allow access for an FTP connection, but works for direct login.e   >  >  >    -- i
 Alan Adams& alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk http://www.nckc.org.uk/r   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 14:01:09 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>" Subject: Re: NIST Servers and ACTS/ Message-ID: <3E2D8AE0.524173A7@vl.videotron.ca>n  , re: using your own GPS receiver to get time.  [ With NTP or the dial-up services, the trip delay is measured and time adjusted accordingly.r  J How does it work with a GPS received ? Does one simply assume a particularL transmission delay through the 4800 baud serial port if using NMEA sequences; or slightly higher speeds if using a proprietary protocol ?l   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Jan 2003 15:07:28 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)a" Subject: Re: NIST Servers and ACTS3 Message-ID: <$8qrz3mIRgbt@eisner.encompasserve.org>u  e In article <b0k3s3$nlr$1@peabody.colorado.edu>, "Judah Levine" <jlevine@utcnist.colorado.edu> writes:sJ > It is absolutely true that all of the NIST time servers are synchronizedB > using periodic calls to our ACTS system in Boulder. However, theN > synchronization process is called LOCKCLOCK and is completely independent ofM > NTP. The details of the algorithm have been published at IEEE/ACM Trans. on * > Networking, Volume 3, pages 42-50, 1995.M > Although the ACTS service description gives the accuracy as 10-100 ms, thisiJ > is an extremely conservative value, and a carefully-designed ACTS systemA > provides accuracy at the level of 1-3 ms. (See the publication) M > However, NTP users generally cannot realize the same accuracy as the server F > itself because of asymmetries and fluctuations in the network delay.L > Although NTP measures the network delay, it assumes that the one-way delayK > is exactly one-half of the measured round-trip value. This is rarely truetK > for any but the shortest paths. (One of the primary advantages of ACTS iswJ > that it uses the dial-up telephone system to do the same thing. The factK > that the measurement is made by the client or by the server is completelyeL > irrelevant -- the real issue is how well the round-trip measurement tracksN > the one-way value. The dial-up telephone system is VERY good in this respectI > while the performance of the Internet is very variable and depends veryeH > strongly on where a user is located and how he/she is connected to the > network backbone.)K > The NIST servers are widely dispersed geographically precisely to try andrM > address this issue. The idea is for users to choose a server where the pathSL > is stable and symmetric. This is usually the one that is closest, but thisN > is not always the case, and some users may find that some close servers haveJ > particularly asymmetric paths whereas a distant server is much better in > this regard.G > The question of whether to use somebody else's server or your own GPSgH > receiver has many aspects, and there is usually no universally correctL > answer. Although a GPS receiver is undoubtedly more accurate than the timeH > received from a remote server (no matter how accurately that server isG > synchronized), the signals may not be legally traceable to a national @ > standard in some circumstances, and that might be an importantL > consideration. A GPS receiver usually requires an outside antenna and thatJ > may also be a problem at some sites. Finally, A GPS system may not scaleF > well when several hundred machines must be synchronized, whereas theM > infrastructure needed for NTP is usually already in place for other networkoK > applications. On the other hand, a system that uses a GPS receiver can betM > located behind a user's firewall, so that no opening for NTP (or some othersE > time format) is needed. Finally, your own GPS receiver will requirerL > calibration, checking, and support to be sure that it is working properly.C > Unless the receiver has a drastic and complete failure, this is abN > non-trivial issue. The final choice should be based on all of these factors.# > As usual, your mileage will vary.t >   C 	I asked David Mills if I could post his email reply.  Here is whata	 	he says:a  I I know Judah personally and agree with everything he says in that message P [quoted in full above]. I find the asymmetric path issue less of a problem here N [at the University of Delaware], mainly because the academic institutions as aO whole are very well connected. The real issues are with grossly overloaded tail J circuits, especially ISDN, where the traffic flow is very different on theO upload and download paths. Recent NTP has special provisions for this situationlL in the form of the huff-'n-puff filter, as described in the briefings at the! NTP project page via www.ntp.org.s   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Jan 2003 19:36 CDT ' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)s2 Subject: Re: OKIdata ML 320 Control Codes from VMS- Message-ID: <21JAN200319362675@gerg.tamu.edu>   % nntpnews@thethin.net (Kyle) writes...cC }So we built a queue specifying NOFEED and, a form with no margins,rC }/SETUP=(our control sequence module), and a length of 6 lines(1"). C }Then we finally created a new device control library (text) with a C }module containing (Direct from the OKI manual)"<ESC> C 06". (<ESC>s }being ascii-27).k } D }The end result, a 06 printed at the top of the job, and the printer0 }totally ignoring the control code I sent to it. } D }I'm thinking my formatting of the module is flawed, or this printer4 }just doesn't know what to do with the esc sequence? } ' }Any help would be greatly appreciated!4  H You should check to see if your control sequence really has spaces in itI and to see if it is supposed to (or if it is just printed that way in the<" manual to make it easier to read).   --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 21:13:14 -0600u1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>u2 Subject: Re: OKIdata ML 320 Control Codes from VMS' Message-ID: <3E2E0C4A.B6E5E462@fsi.net>e   Thys de Wet wrote: >  > Kyle,o > > > I've had a look at your form definition.  I see you're using > /SETUP=(LINES-PAGE-12) > L > On our system, that's a file that contains the printer control codes.  TheF > information in that file should also be added to a .TLB file in your > SYS$LIBRARY directory.I > We don't use telnetsym, but Multinet.  Same principle applies.  OpenVMSeM > "reads" the form definition, and then gets the info (printer control codes)MN > from the .TLB file and embeds the printer control codes into the data stream > queued to the printer queue.  E Well, strictly speaking, that's the symbiont's job (determining which H modules to extract, extracting modules from the library and sending themE at the appropriate time), not VMS's (the kernel). Read up on the PSM$g and SMB$ routines.   -- . David J. Dachteral dba DJE Systemsk http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 21:21:40 -0600u1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>.2 Subject: Re: OKIdata ML 320 Control Codes from VMS' Message-ID: <3E2E0E44.417D718C@fsi.net>W   Kyle wrote:5 > F > Has anyone ever had any success sending printer control codes, underG > VMS, to an OKI ML 320? We are trying to print 1" labels with the 320. F > But what we are getting is the amount of labels we send, plus a formH > feed to take up the rest of the page. Therefore wasting about 2 labelsE > per job, rolling the printer back after each job is not acceptable.i > + > The labels are perforated after each one.  > H > Solution: Set the page length to 1". (Oki's menu only goes to 3", so I > need to send a control code) > D > So we built a queue specifying NOFEED and, a form with no margins,D > /SETUP=(our control sequence module), and a length of 6 lines(1").D > Then we finally created a new device control library (text) with aD > module containing (Direct from the OKI manual)"<ESC> C 06". (<ESC> > being ascii-27). > E > The end result, a 06 printed at the top of the job, and the printere1 > totally ignoring the control code I sent to it.' > E > I'm thinking my formatting of the module is flawed, or this printer>5 > just doesn't know what to do with the esc sequence?l > ( > Any help would be greatly appreciated!  B Carl Perkins raises a valid point. Please see his post. Also, ANSID escape sequences typically end with a character whose ASCII value isG greater than 64 (.GTS. "@"). So, there is also the possibility that the - symbiont may be "eating" the escape sequence.f  D You didn't mention VMS or UCX versions, so this is a general caveat:H early versions of UCX$TELNETSYM do not actually fully support all of theE command line qualifiers available on the PRINT command. Most notably,O  /FLAG and /PAGES are not obeyed.  D Similarly, I'd also question whether the /PASSALL qualifier would beB honored by an early version of UCX$TELNETSYM, say prior to UCX V4.   --   David J. Dachterag dba DJE Systemss http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/s   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 21:57:46 -0600a1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>n- Subject: Re: OpenVMS DCL bumper sticker offerb' Message-ID: <3E2E16BA.28B12E98@fsi.net>    Jeff Cameron wrote:o > D > You can now order your own OpenVMS DCL, The Original .COM Bumper
 > Sticker. > - > Sample shown here (in attached .gif file) :i > C > Bumper sticker is 15x3.75 and made of high quality repositional' > vinyl. > H > Price is $2.50 (USD)if you pay by PayPal, or $3.00 (USD) by check or > Money Order. > F > Go to http://www.jcameron.com/vms/ and press the Bumper Sticker link > for more information..   What did I miss?  G Paypal charges the seller a fee, AFAIK. So, that $2.50 may be more like C $1.85 or so by the time you pay the PayPal fee. Then, subtract yourf costs.  + OTOH, the check gets you $3.00 minus costs.h  & What's the better deal for the seller?  1 Which way is best from the buyer's point of view?o   Is there a conflict here?t   -- j David J. Dachterak dba DJE SystemsD http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------   Date: 22 Jan 2003 01:38:36 GMT# From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)iR Subject: OpenVMS FAQ Pending (was: Re: Network Time Protocol (NTP) for OpenVMS ??)* Message-ID: <b0ksms$j4f$2@web1.cup.hp.com>  p In article <a3c44af1.0301170843.5e64fb2f@posting.google.com>, dave.baxter@bannerhealth.com (Dave Baxter) writes:  ? : I am interested in finding out if anyone uses NTP for keeping@ :their system time accurate?  I   The presence of a discussion of NTP within the OpenVMS Frequently Asked K   Questions (FAQ) document and a huge discussion of system time and related L   topics and the gazillions of NTP-related discussions here in the newsgroupJ   and the occasional discussion of NTP over in the Ask The Wizard area areG   all being viewed as shining examples of irrelevence, apparently.  :-)   I   Many folks around the world use NTP, and that includes many folks here.-  G   But seriously, when posting, please remember to indicate the OpenVMS mH   platform and the OpenVMS version -- as well as other details listed inI   the FAQ -- will help us answer your questions.  In this case, the oldertH   versions of TCP/IP Services have had correspondingly older versions ofJ   NTP support.  And specific versions of NTP can require specific versionsK   of OpenVMS.  (Again, the FAQ has details on the sorts of information thatoK   can be required, and why.)  Please also remember to simply search throughfK   the (text-format) FAQ and in other available resources for the answer(s),hK   as seeing the same questions over and over and over and over and over andrK   over and over and over and over and over and over gets rather tedious andmB   can also engender flames and other untoward behaviours.  Thanks!    4 	-- regarding the next edition of the OpenVMS FAQ --  E   I have incorporated the large collection of updates I've had queued9D   for the upcoming edition of the OpenVMS FAQ, and this message willF   serve as the final boarding call for any discussions or updates thatD   should be included within the next edition of the FAQ.  If I don'tE   receive the update by the end of this week, the suggestion, change,cD   correction, etc, will be safety-sealed and held over for inclusion'   into a subsequent edition of the FAQ.o      N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------J       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.comN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.comi   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 14:20:17 -0500m* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>Y Subject: Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marveland  Alpha Reta 2 Message-ID: <sp-dnWiU7p7jALCjXTWcoA@metrocast.net>  . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageE news:xwcX9.408940$F2h1.271619@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...u   ...a  ; > The following nifty bit of fiction was seen on Bloomberg,jH > http://quote.bloomberg.com/fgcgi.cgi?T=marketsquote99_relnews.ht&s=APiE > w6IxXgSGV3bGV0, "Server rival International Business Machines Corp. H > makes the Alpha chips based on Hewlett-Packard designs, Marcello said.D > Hewlett-Packard expects servers with Itanium chips will outperform, > Alpha-based machines after 2004, he said." >e* > It's the 2nd sentence that is laughable.  J Or perhaps just carefully worded:  it will likely be true for sufficiently small Itanic servers..  K For example, on a *single*-processor basis EV7 out-performs McKinley across H the board (well, we don't have base SPECint and SPECfp scores for EV7 toJ look at - peak scores are listed as 877 and 1482, respectively, in the newL EV7 next_gen_wp_0103.pdf white paper - so the base scores may not), but thatI won't be true for Madison in 6 months or so.  And since EV79 is now beingeJ talked about as a *late* 2004 product (rather than a year from now, as hadK been said until a few days ago:  funny about how that change coincides with J the change in Montecito's future, since a 2004 Montecito would have likelyD more than matched EV79 in single-processor use), it may only achieveJ approximate parity (again, in single-processor use) with Madison II ratherG than leapfrog Madison I (whereas EV8 would have blown both of them awaye completely).  K The major fly in Itanic's ointment, of course, is in multi-processor (i.e.,eL typical server) use, where EV7 and EV79, even if a bit behind future ItanicsK in single-processor SPECint/SPECfp performance, will continue to blow theirtK doors off in scalability - not just through 2004, but until Itanic gets theeK same kind of MP (and likely memory) on-chip glue, which now appears delayed  until 2006 at the earliest.   H By the way, the following article notes that HP won't be releasing TPC-CH benchmarks for EV7:  http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/3/28947.html . Anyone surprised?n   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 22:08:16 GMTa# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>mY Subject: Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marveland  Alpha RetaeJ Message-ID: <kxjX9.128613$pDv.100164@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  = "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in messaged) news:3E2D8E73.99EA5668@vl.videotron.ca...e? > Here are the press releases that the NYSE web site shows when0 displaying HP'so > stock price: >d > 1:26pmD >            2002 W European PDA Shipments Fell 7% - Dataquest - Dow Jonesf > Business Newsi >      11:55amF >            EquityOutlook.Com Announces Stock Evaluation Ratings: New Ratingsq > on O - >            Business Wire >       9:35am: >            Ascential and Hewlett Packard Co-Sponsor Free Cyberseminar - PR Newswire >       9:16amB >            HP Terminates Stockholder Rights Plan - Business Wire >       8:14amC >            Columbitech Partners with Hewlett-Packard Consulting &y Integrationt > in - Business  >            Wire> >t >aB > So yesterday,s press release about EV7 never made it to the NYSE
 site which2 > usually shows all the PC related press releases.    B The stuff released to the NYSE is what is deemed to be *materially
 relevant*. Draw your own conclusions.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 21:56:08 GMTt# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>hY Subject: Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marveland  Alpha Reta,F Message-ID: <YljX9.128561$pDv.27@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messagec, news:sp-dnWiU7p7jALCjXTWcoA@metrocast.net... > 0 > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message >rE news:xwcX9.408940$F2h1.271619@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...s >  > ...u >e= > > The following nifty bit of fiction was seen on Bloomberg,e > >nF http://quote.bloomberg.com/fgcgi.cgi?T=marketsquote99_relnews.ht&s=APiA > > w6IxXgSGV3bGV0, "Server rival International Business Machinesu Corp.iD > > makes the Alpha chips based on Hewlett-Packard designs, Marcello said..F > > Hewlett-Packard expects servers with Itanium chips will outperform. > > Alpha-based machines after 2004, he said." > > , > > It's the 2nd sentence that is laughable. >S? > Or perhaps just carefully worded:  it will likely be true forL sufficiently > small Itanic servers.4 >SF > For example, on a *single*-processor basis EV7 out-performs McKinley acrossC > the board (well, we don't have base SPECint and SPECfp scores forw EV7 toD > look at - peak scores are listed as 877 and 1482, respectively, in the new E > EV7 next_gen_wp_0103.pdf white paper - so the base scores may not),u but thatE > won't be true for Madison in 6 months or so.  And since EV79 is nowa beingnE > talked about as a *late* 2004 product (rather than a year from now,u as had> > been said until a few days ago:  funny about how that change coincides withE > the change in Montecito's future, since a 2004 Montecito would haveU likelyF > more than matched EV79 in single-processor use), it may only achieveE > approximate parity (again, in single-processor use) with Madison II  ratherD > than leapfrog Madison I (whereas EV8 would have blown both of them away > completely). >-F > The major fly in Itanic's ointment, of course, is in multi-processor (i.e.,F > typical server) use, where EV7 and EV79, even if a bit behind future ItanicskB > in single-processor SPECint/SPECfp performance, will continue to
 blow theirD > doors off in scalability - not just through 2004, but until Itanic gets theE > same kind of MP (and likely memory) on-chip glue, which now appearsa delayedi > until 2006 at the earliest.- >-D > By the way, the following article notes that HP won't be releasing TPC-Cl > benchmarks for EV7: 3 http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/3/28947.html .i > Anyone surprised?f    A Of course there's no surprise in that. When you aren't selling to5F *new* customers and you're only trying to milk the remaining customersD you've got, there's no financial incentive to spend the money to runC the tests. No tests, no new customers --> self-fulfilling prophecy.   F Too bad customers aren't a bit like Howard Beale, the slightly alteredC news anchor from the 1976 movie 'Network'. We should all be 'mad ase? hell' at ChumHPaq, and 'not take this anymore'. Trouble is, the # alternatives are quite unpalatable.h   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 14:16:25 -0400a0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>Y Subject: Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marveland Alpha Retai / Message-ID: <3E2D8E73.99EA5668@vl.videotron.ca>:  M Here are the press releases that the NYSE web site shows when displaying HP's  stock price:   1:26pm  H            2002 W European PDA Shipments Fell 7% - Dataquest - Dow Jones
 Business Newsa
      11:55am  L            EquityOutlook.Com Announces Stock Evaluation Ratings: New Ratings on O -            Business Wire
       9:35am eS            Ascential and Hewlett Packard Co-Sponsor Free Cyberseminar - PR Newswirer
       9:16am  @            HP Terminates Stockholder Rights Plan - Business Wire
       8:14am eM            Columbitech Partners with Hewlett-Packard Consulting & Integrationm
 in - Business.            Wireu    K So yesterday,s press release about EV7 never made it to the NYSE site which 0 usually shows all the PC related press releases.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 15:34:46 -0400.0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>Y Subject: Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marveland Alpha Retai / Message-ID: <3E2DA0CB.732A88B8@vl.videotron.ca>2  K You know, I am somewhat surprise dthat HP migh try to delay releases of EV7h and EV79 as mch as possible. c  N In a way, they should have pushed through the releases as fast as possible. ItM might be more painful in the short term, but once done, Alpha would be out ofaJ the way once and for all. A bit like a zit. You can let it grow slowly andN hope it goes away eventually, or you can take the quickler action of squeezing9 it until the bad stuff squirts out and then you are done.   K And the quicker Alpha's last chip is out, the quicker customers accept thatrJ Alpha is dead once and for all and migrate to another platform. The longerI they delay Alpha's last chip, the longer customers will stay on alpha and : continue to want alpha instead of the unwanted IA64 thing.  M Of course, it is a given that HP will charge a premium for any/all Alphas, to J ensure that Alpha continues to be seen as more expensive than the unwanted IA64 thing.n   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 22:22:54 GMT." From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORGD Subject: Re: Plextor CD-R Plexwriter PX-C412Ci and OpenVMS questions0 Message-ID: <00A1A4FA.3426F091@SendSpamHere.ORG>  T In article <3E2D888E.97430AC8@127.0.0.1>, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes: >VAXVMS wrote: >>  B >>    Nic, I can't speak for *your* Plextor, but as a general rule, >>    they *will* write ODS-2 formatted CDs. >> .@ >>    In my experience, they *won't* mount or read anything, but3 >>    a combination of LDDRIVER and CDRECORD works.s > * >Thank you to VAXman, Eberhard and WWWebb. >aH >I used to think that WOM, write only memory was a joke, Then I learnt a1 >little about memory channel and how it does SCS.e >i- >Now, I find the same is true with CD-W (sic)i >eF >Can this be put in the FAQ or some other reference. I'd have gone offI >thinking it would never possibly work, just because I couldn't read from. >the device.  H This has been discussed here in the past and probably more than once.  A@ search of this newsgroup's archives should turn up some of this.   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMr            l5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" h   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Jan 2003 03:07:37 GMT# From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)bD Subject: Re: Plextor CD-R Plexwriter PX-C412Ci and OpenVMS questions* Message-ID: <b0l1tp$j4f$4@web1.cup.hp.com>  T In article <3E2D888E.97430AC8@127.0.0.1>, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes:F :Can this be put in the FAQ or some other reference. I'd have gone offI :thinking it would never possibly work, just because I couldn't read from> :the device.  G   There has been a discussion of CD-R in the OpenVMS FAQ for some years-G   now.  I had updated it for the current edition of the FAQ, and expect7E   to have some edits incorporated in the upcoming edition of the FAQ. C   I have a few DVD-related updates to the text ready, for instance.u  K   As I have posted here and has been discussed here, the Plextor PlexWriteroK   12/10/32S series SCSI CD-R/CD-RW drive works just fine with OpenVMS.  ForbI   read and for record.  I've also seen recent reports of success with thecE   Yamaha CRW-F1 series CD-R/CD-RW drive.   I expect others also work.   K   Discussions of the requirement for 512-byte disk blocking support -- for  J   SCSI disk and CD devices -- is and has been in the OpenVMS FAQ, as well.H   The ATA device driver interface (SYS$DQDRIVER) does support 2048 byte I   blocks for use with ATA-based CD devices.  This information and related :   updates are now and/or soon will be included in the FAQ.  I   I can and do expect problems with ancient CD-R drives, as these predate H   applicable SCSI-defined interfaces -- these drives are a large part ofI   the complexity of existing CD-R tools, based on my reading of the code.2F   Support for ancient CD-R drives can be a real mess, on any platform.  G   I have specifically refrained from citing lists of CD-R drives in the L   OpenVMS FAQ, prefering to point to websites with CD-R tools and associatedI   information.  If there is a groundswell of support for this addition to.J   the FAQ, I'll have to work up the details required -- this usually meansI   exactly what widget was tested, potentially the firmware version, what  D   CD software was used, what OpenVMS release was used, and what SCSII   interface, etc.  (A simpler table is certainly possible, but could also J   be quite misleading.  Beginning to understand why I don't really want to   have to track this? :-)c  J   OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-1 includes versions of CDRECORD and LD, and this codeJ   has been successfully tested with the aforementioned PlexWriter and withJ   various other CD-R drives.  (I do not know which -- if any -- drives are   officially supported.)  cK   I answer this and related CD-R questions at least once a week, too -- thetK   details have certainly been added to the OpenVMS FAQ.  If you wish to seetJ   additional changes or to suggest improvements to the contents of this orJ   other parts of the FAQ, please let me know by the end of this week, as I>   am almost ready to ship the next edition of the OpenVMS FAQ.  H   Having just gone through a very similar discussion with another personG   -- they too were attempting to use a fossil-vintage CD-R drive -- the D   use of a current-generation device quickly and easily solved theirG   problems and allowed them to write and interchange CD-R media.  (As InI   expect will be the case here, it took them a month before they believed &   me and replaced the drive, too.  :-)  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------J       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.comN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.comc   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 21:29:37 -0600c1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>t8 Subject: Re: Recovering from deleted .PCSI$DATABASE file' Message-ID: <3E2E1021.EF0CBA7B@fsi.net>u   Charlie Hammond wrote: > ? > In article <69d784c4.0301170906.37aaa68a@posting.google.com>,o2 > Jack.Trachtman@vmmc.org (Jack Trachtman) writes: > P > >I inadvertantly deleted a .PCSI$DATABASE product file and don't have a backupN > >copy of it.  The only DSNlink articles I can find indicate that I will have3 > >to recreate the entire set of PRODUCT databases.  > I > The only way is to recreate the entire database.  I suggest your rename K > or backup the existing set of PCSI$DATABASE file.  Then use the operatingo% > system CD-ROM to reinstall OpenVMS.   D ...with the caveat that attempting to re-install certain versions ofG VMS, most notably V7.1-2, was known to fail due to a PCSI bug and trash ? the system disk. Approach this with extreme and undue caution.    F I got burned by this a while back. A PCSI patch was issued at one timeD to fix this, but AFAIK a corrected V7.1-2 CD was never issued. DunnoF 'bout other versions prior to the fix (V7.2 may likewise have the sameE problem, not sure 'bout V7.2-1). Google c.o.v. for my name and V7.1-2-A and you may find a post from me circa. that time, maybe mid-1999.    -- i David J. DachteraM dba DJE Systemsp http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 01:25:28 -0400e0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>8 Subject: Re: Recovering from deleted .PCSI$DATABASE file/ Message-ID: <3E2E2B47.8A6104EA@vl.videotron.ca>5  M Could someone with a similar system email the poor chap his .PCSI database som; that he would have at least some basic stuff to work woth ?i  J Also, wouldn't there be some sort of stray .PCSI files on the chap's disksI from which he could make a list of what has been installed ? (and perhapstA extract the relevant info from the .PCSI to add to the database ?e   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 21:21:52 +0100 (MET)s9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>nC Subject: shadow-set consistency on simultaneous loss of all memberst; Message-ID: <01KRICYS3EAA96VR7Q@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   < Always improving my hobbyist cluster, here's a new question.  ! Box = physical housing of a disk.k  I After moving from single disks to shadow sets, I am now mounting members eI on separate nodes.  Of course, the more separate, the better---different .E controllers, different boxes, different nodes, different buildings.  iE (All rather old hardware, no dual-ported disks, narrow, perhaps fast r- SCSI 2, host-based shadowing, VAX and ALPHA.)   H With non-system disks, different nodes automatically gives me different H controllers and, though I could put them in the same dual-bus box, that F would be silly so of course in this case I also have separate boxes.  C (For now, all are in the same building.  :-)  )  With system shadowr> sets, they have to be on the same node.  Since I just have oneG controller per node, that means they are also on the same controller.   7 In such cases, I now have them in the same box as well.p  I I'm wondering if it is worth the trouble to have them in separate boxes. nG After all, most likely to fail are probably disk, node and controller, oG with the failure of, say, a BA-356 (especially with dual power supply)  D rather unlikely.  I am protected against disk failure, but with one C controller per node, controller failure will still be a risk.  (Of vD course, with a system disk, if the disk is down because the node is $ down, I don't need the disk anyway.)  H With non-shadowed single disks, I've had a power outage a few times and F after a reboot everything was OK.  Could it be that a shadowed system E disk is LESS robust in this respect, i.e. if the members  are in the tF same box and power to that box fails, is it possible that, on reboot, ; the shadow set comes up in some sort of inconsistent state?l  E Of course, having them in separate boxes would make things easier if  G power to one box fails, but even that won't help if power to the whole g1 cluster (all nodes and disks) fails (no UPS yet).h   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 20:07:02 +0100 (MET)s9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>s/ Subject: somewhat off-topic: CNAME as MX-recordb; Message-ID: <01KRIC4F6U8Y96VR7Q@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>    From the FAQ at dyndns.org:-  0    Why doesn't the NIC accept my mail exchanger?H    According to RFC 1035, MX records (which are what the mail exchanger I    option creates) cannot be IP addresses or DNS hostnames created using yK    CNAME records. If you attempt to use either an IP address or a CNAME as J?    a mail exchanger, the NIC will disregard this invalid input.M  G I didn't see this restriction, but then I just read RFC 1035 briefly.  uI In any case, is this actually enforced?  I've been doing just this for a 2G long time and have noticed no problems.  (It could be, of course, that u@ if mail doesn't get through, then complaints would also not get 	 through.)w  D It seems to me that this makes a lot of sense.  If the machine name E changes, one just has to change the record for the CNAME.  Then, all iE other records (such as MX) which use the CNAME will continue to work  F without changes.  What is the reason for the restriction in the first  place?   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 13:15:19 -0600 (CST)e From: sms@antinode.org/ Subject: somewhat off-topic: CNAME as MX-recordl) Message-ID: <03012113151989@antinode.org>l  9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>r > From the FAQ at dyndns.org:- > 2 >    Why doesn't the NIC accept my mail exchanger?J >    According to RFC 1035, MX records (which are what the mail exchanger K >    option creates) cannot be IP addresses or DNS hostnames created using cM >    CNAME records. If you attempt to use either an IP address or a CNAME as rA >    a mail exchanger, the NIC will disregard this invalid input.e > I > I didn't see this restriction, but then I just read RFC 1035 briefly.  00 > In any case, is this actually enforced?  [...]  4    Apparently not, and I sure hope not.  My log fileH (SYS$SPECIFIC:[TCPIP$BIND]TCPIP$BIND_RUN.LOG) accumulates a lot of these ("informational") complaints:b  E Tue 21 11:04:58 INFORMATIONAL: "ANTINODE.ORG IN NS" points to a CNAMEi  (ns.antinode.org)E Tue 21 11:11:06 INFORMATIONAL: "antinode.org IN MX" points to a CNAME<  (mailhost.antinode.org)  I > I've been doing just this for a long time and have noticed no problems.y  E    Same here, for the same reasons, and I also see no problems (other,0 than the non-minimal log file).  For the record:   ALP $ tcpip show version  A   DIGITAL TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.0A - ECO 3E4   on a AlphaStation 200 4/233 running OpenVMS V7.2-1  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode.orgt    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547p   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 15:22:02 -0400c0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>3 Subject: Re: somewhat off-topic: CNAME as MX-recordP/ Message-ID: <3E2D9DD0.EA2C5260@vl.videotron.ca>o   sms@antinode.org wrote:o6 >    Apparently not, and I sure hope not.  My log fileJ > (SYS$SPECIFIC:[TCPIP$BIND]TCPIP$BIND_RUN.LOG) accumulates a lot of these > ("informational") complaints:- > G > Tue 21 11:04:58 INFORMATIONAL: "ANTINODE.ORG IN NS" points to a CNAME  >  (ns.antinode.org)G > Tue 21 11:11:06 INFORMATIONAL: "antinode.org IN MX" points to a CNAMEt >  (mailhost.antinode.org)  M I would be very weary of those messages. They could simply mean that the resteN of the .db files have been parsed and loaded by that those 2 records were not.  E When i first setup my DNS database (with the TCPIP> commands, I never N botherered checking the logs, because things seemed to work. But at one point,M when I wanted to add something new and switchjed to the proper editing of thevJ .db files directly, I saw problems pop up and then realised that I had had. long standing problems which I hadn't noticed.  N There is a utility ( NDC which equoares to TCPIP$BIND_SERVER_CONTROL.EXE whichN allows you to dumb the current database onto the log file. You may wish to seeB what the bind server has in memory (this includes cached entries).    M Don't forget that the VMS TCPIP Services SMTP server has the option to lookupaC the domain as a host name if it fails to resolve it as an MX entry.f     However, if I do a :   NSLOOKUP
 >set debug >set type=MX
 >antinode.orgt  / I get your mail exchanger mailhost.antinode.orga  E But in the additional records, I do not get the ip address listed foroJ mailhost.antinode.org, whereas with other companies, I alwasy get the mail: exchanger's IP address included in the additional records.  M When one does a BIND RESOLVE for an MX address, does one end up doing 2 bindstL to get the ip address ? (one to get the mail exchanger, and one to translateK the mail exchanged into an ip address), or does the one bind do the trick ?n  K If one does 2 binds, then it wouldn't really make a difference since on thetJ second bind, you'd get an ip address for mailhost.antinode.org. But if oneN does a single bind, then some implementations might fail because they wouldn't be getting the ip address.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 21:47:08 +0100o6 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>3 Subject: Re: somewhat off-topic: CNAME as MX-records) Message-ID: <3E2DB1CC.4030304@vajhoej.dk>w   Phillip Helbig wrote:w > From the FAQ at dyndns.org:h2 >    Why doesn't the NIC accept my mail exchanger?J >    According to RFC 1035, MX records (which are what the mail exchanger K >    option creates) cannot be IP addresses or DNS hostnames created using  M >    CNAME records. If you attempt to use either an IP address or a CNAME as cA >    a mail exchanger, the NIC will disregard this invalid input.t > I > I didn't see this restriction, but then I just read RFC 1035 briefly.  tK > In any case, is this actually enforced?  I've been doing just this for a tI > long time and have noticed no problems.  (It could be, of course, that  B > if mail doesn't get through, then complaints would also not get  > through.):  % Almost no mail-servers enforces this.S  3 But it is still a good idea to follow the standard.p  % Some DNS management tools enforce it.e   Arne   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 14:49:22 -0600 (CST)e From: sms@antinode.org3 Subject: Re: somewhat off-topic: CNAME as MX-recordv) Message-ID: <03012114492234@antinode.org>   0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> > sms@antinode.org wrote:k	 > > [...]eI > > Tue 21 11:11:06 INFORMATIONAL: "antinode.org IN MX" points to a CNAMEn > >  (mailhost.antinode.org) > >.* > I would be very weary of those messages.  D    Actually, I _am_ very weary of those messages.  _You_ may be veryE _wary_ of them, if you wish to be.  As I reported, I see no problems.d  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode.orgl    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547-   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 21:52:23 +0100e6 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>6 Subject: Re: Standards for sending of VMS binary files) Message-ID: <3E2DB307.7000101@vajhoej.dk>    JF Mezei wrote:tN > OK, in VMSmail, I can send an indexed file as /FOREIGN and it comes out with0 > exactly the same attributes at the other hand. > P > On a Macintosh, I can send a file as a MACbinary files which makes it possibleN > to restore the file at the other end totally intact with all its attributes.L > (Some mailers will send a MAC file as 2 attachements, one for the resource% > fork, the other for the data fork).t > O > Is there an implicit standard for packaging a file's attributes when the filehK > is encoded , for instance as base64 so that they could be restored at themM > other end by another VMS mail program, or just seen as binary data by othern
 > platforms ?a   No standard.  7 But I can think of two reasonable common and safe ways:u 1)  ZIP "-V"
 2)  VMS_SHAREt   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 21:59:37 -0600e1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>-6 Subject: Re: Standards for sending of VMS binary files' Message-ID: <3E2E1729.AEE072D7@fsi.net>y   Arne Vajhj wrote: >  > JF Mezei wrote:2P > > OK, in VMSmail, I can send an indexed file as /FOREIGN and it comes out with2 > > exactly the same attributes at the other hand. > >oR > > On a Macintosh, I can send a file as a MACbinary files which makes it possibleP > > to restore the file at the other end totally intact with all its attributes.N > > (Some mailers will send a MAC file as 2 attachements, one for the resource' > > fork, the other for the data fork).j > > Q > > Is there an implicit standard for packaging a file's attributes when the file M > > is encoded , for instance as base64 so that they could be restored at thecO > > other end by another VMS mail program, or just seen as binary data by otherg > > platforms ?u >  > No standard. > 9 > But I can think of two reasonable common and safe ways:  > 1)  ZIP "-V" > 2)  VMS_SHAREt   How 'bout adding:n   3) MFTUr	 4) VMSHEXe6 5) Compressed .TLB's like we used to do on CompuServe?   --   David J. Dachterai dba DJE Systemsf http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 15:05:39 -0500h: From: Gunther Schadow <gschadowREMOVETHIS@regenstrief.org>E Subject: Storage network with VMS cluster and other OSses, ESS, EMC2? . Message-ID: <3E2DA813.2060503@regenstrief.org>   Hi,   A this question has beed discussed a little in the last year, but Ie> would appreciate some updated relaunch of it. We have an AlphaD cluster here with 5 Alphas 4100s that currently seem to be clustered? through CI and a CI to SCSI bridge (HSJ?) to StorageWorks. Thisa@ has been so for a number of years but it's ridiculously slow and@ we run out of diskspace all the time (yes, we are probably doingA something wrong in addition to the aged hardware.) But instead ofo@ doctoring on the current setup, we want to put in a  SAN kind of9 storage box, upgrade the nodes with FibreChannel adapterspD and say good bye to good ol' CI (what an amazing piece of technology7 it was, 18 MB/s highspeed since 1978 on the VAX11/780!)-  D We are somewhat suspicious of SCSI (because of the common limitationE on 64 kB transfer blocks, especially when MSCP-served) and hence wantbF to go to all-FibreChannel. We also want a massive cache on the storage system, somewhere like 16 GB.p  = So, the question is, which? EMC Symmetrix, IBM ESS (Shark) oro DEC/Compac/HP.  @ We have a quote from EMC Symmetrix on an 3930-50 frame with 6 TBD of storage on 120 Drives. Has anyone heard anything wrong with that?> I heard rumors this was "old technology" and indeed on the EMCE site I can only find 3930-18 or -36 but not -50. Don't know what that 
 means though.r  B The constraints are that we want to allow non-VMS machines to alsoC use the storage. So, a DEC/MSCP only cluster would be a problem. OfhD course we don't expect to share common files, but VMS would have itsG zone and Unix would have its zone side-by-side. Any concerns with that?aC Is that possible with DEC/Compaq/HP StorageWorks, it is possible toeB add non-VMS clients, non DEC/Compaq/HP clients, not just possible, but officially supported?l  A I heard that EMC has been in the OpenVMS market for a while, when-? IBM/ESS only stakes some first claims in this area. I read on ahE presentation abstract for DECUS Germany conference in April 2003 thatkC ESS would only work through SCSI right now. That would be a bummer.cE I don't think we would want to have a FC-to-SCSI bridge (HSG) hangingo= there in the middle. Am I being unrealistic? Overly paranoid?m  C Anyone here have real experience with ESS? In our situation we havee@ reasons to do ESS because our partners in the same computer roomD have it (not on VMS) and they find maintenance service very good andB like to have an integrated backup strategy (Tivoli). But, how muchD of this backup strategy would work cross-filessystems? I would thinkB unless it is a raw blockwise backup independent from file-systems,C there is pretty little chance of a common backup mechanism for bothf. VMS and Unix file systems. But I may be naive.  @ Thanks for any and all comments, hints, and for sharing your own experience.t   regardsm -Gunther   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 22:05:43 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>eI Subject: Re: Storage network with VMS cluster and other OSses, ESS, EMC2?v' Message-ID: <3E2E1897.AED743D4@fsi.net>v   Gunther Schadow wrote: > [snip]  0 Well, the jury is still out on VMS + EMC, AFAIK.  F It may work if you can avoid HBVS (Host Based Volume Shadowing) as EMCD lacks support for key features which can cause shadow-set members to> drop out when an unrecoverable reader error forces a bad block replacement.  . There's also the mini-merge issue to consider.   -- d David J. Dachterao dba DJE Systemso http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 16:47:31 -0800e( From: Alan Frisbie <Abuse@NelsonUSA.com>0 Subject: Re: System uptime - The Uptimes Project- Message-ID: <3E2DEA23.EF87DA43@NelsonUSA.com>n  
 Jerome wrote:f  + > A few days ago, I came across this site :  > http://uptimes.wonko.com/i > I > Since there was no stats for OpenVMS, I decided to write a client in myuK > spare time, and register a few hosts. The maintainer of the site has maderE > the OpenVMS client available on the site (source and alpha binary).-M > Granted, this is geek stuff, and, as mentioned in the FAQ, it probably doesdK > not mean much about OS stability... However I like the idea and I thought-, > some folks in this NG may like it also ;-) >  > Take a look at: / > http://uptimes.wonko.com/stats.php?op=general M > ...I'm sure we can make the OpenVMS bar scale much further to the right :-):  E Thanks for making the VMS client available.   I finally got around toe- downloading and running it (trivially easy!).   H Now I can claim bragging rights for single-CPU VMS systems: 407 days andH counting!   This is not an idle system.   On a typical day, it has 40-50I users, and the load figure runs 8-20%, unlike so many of the top systems.n  D As of this afternoon, a VMS cluster (two CPUs) is in positions 6 & 7K (697 days), and my single Alpha 1000A (Full -- NelsonNameplate) is in 24th.i  G Let's get some more high-uptime VMS systems on the list!   Jerome's zipnD file includes both the source and .exe files for both VAX and Alpha.B If you're behind a firewall, all you need to do is open a hole forD outbound (only) UDP packets on port 49153.   You don't have to worry. about any inbound packets.   It's really easy.   Cheers,o Alan   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 19:20:39 +0000 (UTC)75 From: "John Wallace" <johnwallace4@yahoo.dotco.dotuk>'Y Subject: Re: TCPIP: pseudo-interface: 2 IP addresses on 1 VMS system with 1 ethernet cardn1 Message-ID: <b0k6i6$svt$1@knossos.btinternet.com>1  
 <big snip> > >- When ID > > think what two Decrouters and a leased line used to add up to... >s  H To an extent, you get what you pay for. If DSL where you are is anythingL like DSL where I am (UK), it is nowhere near what a VMS customer would classK as a business-class substitute for a business-critical leased line. You may0L continue to need the ISDN backup, which may mean you're in Cisco rather thanL SoHo price territory. $100  SoHo routers are probably worth every cent, tillL you need to manage them, when the money you've saved is suddenly spent in an' hour or two. (Familiar story, or what?)o   regardsa john   ------------------------------   Date: 21 JAN 2003 21:00:44 GMT4 From: karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher)Y Subject: Re: TCPIP: pseudo-interface: 2 IP addresses on 1 VMS system with 1 ethernet card 6 Message-ID: <21JAN03.21004455@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>  Q In a previous article, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote:e  E ->Not wanting to get rid of the real IP address, could an additional  & ->(pseudo)interface do the trick here?  ? Sure. Say you have an EWA0 ethernet device. That will appear astG interface WE0 in TCPIP SHOW INTERFACE. Then you would create the pseudoa interface WEA1 like so:8   	$ TCPIP% 	TCPIP> set int wea1/host=192.168.1.2j 	TCPIP> sho intoB                                                            PacketsO Interface   IP_Addr         Network mask          Receive          Send     MTUJ  O  LO0        127.0.0.1       255.0.0.0                4603          4603    40968O  WE0        144.92.138.170  255.255.0.0          31526043       1650440    1500wO  WEA1       192.168.1.2     255.255.255.0        31526043       1650440    1500n  , You should then be able to ping 192.168.1.1.   --G -- Carl Karcher, Waisman Computing Services, Waisman Center, UW-Madisono5 --              karcher.nomorespam@waisman.wisc.edu      ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 22:16:30 GMTc# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>P. Subject: The HP marketing juggernaut grinds onI Message-ID: <2FjX9.128627$pDv.53386@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   % No mention of the new Alphaservers atd   www.eweek.com or www.informationweek.com   B though someone mentioned to me that there might be something found, about them to be found in alt.penguin-fetish   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 22:56:21 GMTh4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>2 Subject: Re: The HP marketing juggernaut grinds on0 Message-ID: <3E2DCEDE.A791149E@blueyonder.co.uk>   John Smith wrote:< > ' > No mention of the new Alphaservers ata >  > www.eweek.com or > www.informationweek.comA > D > though someone mentioned to me that there might be something found. > about them to be found in alt.penguin-fetish   Tryi  ' EV7 AlphaServers unleashed as chip liner%                     heads into sunsety at  1 http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/3/28947.html1   and     HP lines up OpenVMS for Itanium    at  2 http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/61/28960.html  ( The final sentence of the first article,  Q "This will make OpenVMS customers pretty happy, and that is the one thing that HPi3 obviously wants to do over the next several years."e  U is probably the most positive thing I've seen written about VMS except in comp.os.vms  for over a decade.   regards,     -- u tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk s  H * PLEASE NOTE tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk address is NO LONGER VALID *   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Jan 2003 18:29:53 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) 2 Subject: Re: The HP marketing juggernaut grinds on3 Message-ID: <WNkU++4xzJiD@eisner.encompasserve.org>   o In article <2FjX9.128627$pDv.53386@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes: ' > No mention of the new Alphaservers atw >  > www.eweek.com     K 	That is because you didn't look very well, but then again FUD often isn't n 	well researched.a  2 http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,836978,00.asp  Q For its part, HP is rolling out three AlphaServers that feature its new EV7 AlphawP chip. Key to the new line are symmetric multiprocessing elements, such as systemJ interconnects, that reside on the chip to improve application performance, officials said.h   				Robr   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Jan 2003 18:53:05 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)u2 Subject: Re: The HP marketing juggernaut grinds on3 Message-ID: <Gj3l$bZ0pgyd@eisner.encompasserve.org>   o In article <_OlX9.129552$pDv.16048@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:s > : > "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message/ > news:WNkU++4xzJiD@eisner.encompasserve.org...h
 >> In article F > <2FjX9.128627$pDv.53386@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John! > Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes: * >> > No mention of the new Alphaservers at >> > >> > www.eweek.com >> >>F >> That is because you didn't look very well, but then again FUD often > isn'tc >> well researched.h >>5 >> http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,836978,00.aspr >>F >> For its part, HP is rolling out three AlphaServers that feature its > new EV7 AlpharD >> chip. Key to the new line are symmetric multiprocessing elements, > such as system@ >> interconnects, that reside on the chip to improve application > performance, >> officials said. > ; > At the time I posted the original post, entering the term1G > 'AlphaServer' or 'Alphaserver' in their site search box returned zerooF > (0) hits. Maybe they updated their indexes between the time I did it > and you did. >   = 	Not in this case.  I read it when it was posted - yesterday.m   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 00:43:38 GMTa# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>o2 Subject: Re: The HP marketing juggernaut grinds onI Message-ID: <_OlX9.129552$pDv.16048@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>e  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:WNkU++4xzJiD@eisner.encompasserve.org...D > In articleD <2FjX9.128627$pDv.53386@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes::) > > No mention of the new Alphaservers ati > >  > > www.eweek.com  >  >cE > That is because you didn't look very well, but then again FUD often  isn't: > well researched. >e4 > http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,836978,00.asp >:E > For its part, HP is rolling out three AlphaServers that feature its 
 new EV7 Alpha C > chip. Key to the new line are symmetric multiprocessing elements,o such as system? > interconnects, that reside on the chip to improve applicatione performance, > officials said.-  9 At the time I posted the original post, entering the term E 'AlphaServer' or 'Alphaserver' in their site search box returned zeroaD (0) hits. Maybe they updated their indexes between the time I did it and you did.  D Still, there is precious little 'industry buzz' about so deserving a; product. Whose fault do you suppose that is? Mine? or HP's?i   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Jan 2003 18:34:06 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)t2 Subject: Re: The HP marketing juggernaut grinds on3 Message-ID: <vcLfFmG14mUQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>   o In article <2FjX9.128627$pDv.53386@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:e' > No mention of the new Alphaservers ato >  > www.informationweek.com  >    	Strike Two:  5 http://www.informationweek.com/story/IWK20030117S0043f  P In other HP server news, the company Monday introduced several new Alpha serversQ for customers requiring performance improvements as they prepare for HP's move tonQ all-Itanium servers. There are three new servers--GS1280, ES80, and ES47. KnowingyK that Alpha is a dying brand, HP has set up an Alpha RetainTrust program foraP customers looking to trade these servers in for newer Itanium-based servers whenQ they become available. The ES80, with up to eight processors, will ship in March, Q while the ES47, with up to four processors, is available today. The GS1280, basedHQ on the new EV7 Alpha processor, is currently available in eight-way or 16-way and.S will be available with 32 processors by midyear. A 64-way version is due by the enda
 of the year. e  4 	Now I suppose you wanted it stand alone.  Whatever.   				Robx   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 00:44:21 GMTf# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>T2 Subject: Re: The HP marketing juggernaut grinds onI Message-ID: <FPlX9.129558$pDv.39728@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:vcLfFmG14mUQ@eisner.encompasserve.org...i > In articleD <2FjX9.128627$pDv.53386@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:I) > > No mention of the new Alphaservers ath > >e > > www.informationweek.coma > >o >l
 > Strike Two:e >A7 > http://www.informationweek.com/story/IWK20030117S0043  >tD > In other HP server news, the company Monday introduced several new
 Alpha serversoF > for customers requiring performance improvements as they prepare for HP's move toE > all-Itanium servers. There are three new servers--GS1280, ES80, andh
 ES47. KnowingHA > that Alpha is a dying brand, HP has set up an Alpha RetainTrustS program foreE > customers looking to trade these servers in for newer Itanium-basedC servers whenD > they become available. The ES80, with up to eight processors, will ship in March,E > while the ES47, with up to four processors, is available today. Theu
 GS1280, baseduE > on the new EV7 Alpha processor, is currently available in eight-way 
 or 16-way andFF > will be available with 32 processors by midyear. A 64-way version is due by the end > of the year. >e5 > Now I suppose you wanted it stand alone.  Whatever.      Ditto with the eweek.com issue.t   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 00:59:47 GMTd# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>o2 Subject: Re: The HP marketing juggernaut grinds onI Message-ID: <72mX9.129716$pDv.80390@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>e  . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageC news:_OlX9.129552$pDv.16048@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...t >r: > "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message/ > news:WNkU++4xzJiD@eisner.encompasserve.org...O > > In articleF > <2FjX9.128627$pDv.53386@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John! > Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:a+ > > > No mention of the new Alphaservers at  > > >a > > > www.eweek.como > >l > >nA > > That is because you didn't look very well, but then again FUDD oftene > isn'ts > > well researched. > >S6 > > http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,836978,00.asp > >hC > > For its part, HP is rolling out three AlphaServers that feature2 itsu > new EV7 Alpha E > > chip. Key to the new line are symmetric multiprocessing elements,l > such as systemA > > interconnects, that reside on the chip to improve applicationn > performance, > > officials said.o >t; > At the time I posted the original post, entering the termtB > 'AlphaServer' or 'Alphaserver' in their site search box returned zeroF > (0) hits. Maybe they updated their indexes between the time I did it > and you did. >tF > Still, there is precious little 'industry buzz' about so deserving a= > product. Whose fault do you suppose that is? Mine? or HP's?t    ? That should read zero (0) hits about the latest Marvel productsoD whether the search term entered was 'AlphaServer', 'Alphaserver', or 'alphaserver'.  F Nothing subsequent to a May 7, 2002 article entitled 'New HP Opens For? Business', when the result set - 47 records sorted by date, wasi	 returned.   C Most companies, when they have such a remarkable product, advertise  it.w   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 16:33:24 -0600a( From: David Harrold <DHarrold@wi.rr.com>2 Subject: Re: The HP marketing juggernaut grinds on8 Message-ID: <1gir2vseueboeh9lkj5suupjf6hcss1uhv@4ax.com>  F On Tue, 21 Jan 2003 22:16:30 GMT, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote:  & >No mention of the new Alphaservers at >h >www.eweek.com or  >www.informationweek.com >rC >though someone mentioned to me that there might be something foundn- >about them to be found in alt.penguin-fetish  >   M Just got my dead tree version of EWeek and it was the from page story (sharedlC with IBM).  Even had a nice picture of a GS1280 on the front page.    F Also, I just looked at the web site and its there as well, although no
 picture.        2 http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,836934,00.asp    IBM, HP Taking Servers Higher-M IBM adds power-boosting feature to iSeries; HP revs AlphaServer scalability. -  - Dave Harrold    -  N ..............................................................................N David Harrold                              E-Mail: David_Harrold at aurora.orgI Sr. Software Systems Engineer              Phone:          (414) 647-6204oI                                            Pager:          (414) 941-4634eG Aurora Health Care                         Fax:          (414) 647-4999n 3031 W. Montana Street Milwaukee, WI 53215g   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 21:40:24 -0400I0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>2 Subject: Re: The HP marketing juggernaut grinds on/ Message-ID: <3E2DF687.A1DF6484@vl.videotron.ca>    Rob Young wrote:7 > http://www.informationweek.com/story/IWK20030117S0043y > R > In other HP server news, the company Monday introduced several new Alpha serversS > for customers requiring performance improvements as they prepare for HP's move toV > all-Itanium servers.  K None of that paragraph had any "punch" with regards to the supposedly large K performance advantage Alpha has. And HP really has to stop selling the skinsN until ity's killed the bear. Until the IA64 is ready for prime time, HP shoudlJ stop bragging about it, especially in light of the consistent rumours thatI Intel may ditch that proprietary chip and go for a 64 bit 8086 to competee against hammer.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 22:11:52 -0600n1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>b2 Subject: Re: The HP marketing juggernaut grinds on' Message-ID: <3E2E1A08.E3273F93@fsi.net>i   Tim Llewellyn wrote: >  > John Smith wrote:y > >/) > > No mention of the new Alphaservers at- > >a > > www.eweek.com or > > www.informationweek.comi > >eF > > though someone mentioned to me that there might be something found0 > > about them to be found in alt.penguin-fetish >  > Trya > ) > EV7 AlphaServers unleashed as chip line ' >                     heads into sunsett > at > 3 > http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/3/28947.htmlo >  > andt > ! > HP lines up OpenVMS for Itaniumo >  > at > 4 > http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/61/28960.html > * > The final sentence of the first article, > S > "This will make OpenVMS customers pretty happy, and that is the one thing that HP 5 > obviously wants to do over the next several years."e  H If HP *REALLY* was serious about keeping OpenVMS customers happy, they'd? ADVERTISE - ADVERTISE - ADVERTISE and then ADVERTISE some more.V   Don't believe me?o  G *YOU* try convincing top management to stay with an obscure o.s. no one C has heard of in recent memory that currently has no future platformsE thanx to the AlphaCide and Itanic's on-going failures to materialize.u  < Not directed at you Tim, just a general "no support" rant...   -- t David J. Dachterao dba DJE Systemsi http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/d   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 04:08:25 GMTt# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>o2 Subject: Re: The HP marketing juggernaut grinds onH Message-ID: <ZOoX9.68394$ej1.25214@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:Gj3l$bZ0pgyd@eisner.encompasserve.org...n > In articleD <_OlX9.129552$pDv.16048@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:s > >a< > > "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message1 > > news:WNkU++4xzJiD@eisner.encompasserve.org...t > >> In article B > > <2FjX9.128627$pDv.53386@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "Johne# > > Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:y, > >> > No mention of the new Alphaservers at > >> > > >> > www.eweek.com > >> > >>B > >> That is because you didn't look very well, but then again FUD oftenf	 > > isn't  > >> well researched.t > >>7 > >> http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,836978,00.asps > >>D > >> For its part, HP is rolling out three AlphaServers that feature its  > > new EV7 AlphatF > >> chip. Key to the new line are symmetric multiprocessing elements, > > such as systemB > >> interconnects, that reside on the chip to improve application > > performance, > >> officials said. > > = > > At the time I posted the original post, entering the termcD > > 'AlphaServer' or 'Alphaserver' in their site search box returned zeroE > > (0) hits. Maybe they updated their indexes between the time I dide it > > and you did. > >l >n> > Not in this case.  I read it when it was posted - yesterday. >   B Then clearly it is a case of their indexing not being updated on aC timely basis. But if it isn't a 'front page' article on their site,e? how else do you propose that one find it? It seems logical thatmD searching for 'AlphaServer' (or a variant spelling thereof) would beC more appropriate than wading through the endless results of printer B and Wintel crap that's returned when one simply enters 'HP' as the search key.i   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 00:03:31 -0500M( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>2 Subject: Re: The HP marketing juggernaut grinds on, Message-ID: <3E2E2623.1080109@tsoft-inc.com>   Rob Young wrote:  q > In article <2FjX9.128627$pDv.53386@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:b > ' >>No mention of the new Alphaservers ato >> >>www.informationweek.com  >> >> >  > 	Strike Two: > 7 > http://www.informationweek.com/story/IWK20030117S0043m > R > In other HP server news, the company Monday introduced several new Alpha serversS > for customers requiring performance improvements as they prepare for HP's move to S > all-Itanium servers. There are three new servers--GS1280, ES80, and ES47. Knowing-M > that Alpha is a dying brand, HP has set up an Alpha RetainTrust program forcR > customers looking to trade these servers in for newer Itanium-based servers whenS > they become available. The ES80, with up to eight processors, will ship in March,yS > while the ES47, with up to four processors, is available today. The GS1280, based S > on the new EV7 Alpha processor, is currently available in eight-way or 16-way and U > will be available with 32 processors by midyear. A 64-way version is due by the end  > of the year. a > 6 > 	Now I suppose you wanted it stand alone.  Whatever.    L It would have been nice if they could have said something about the Alphas, Q rather then emphasize the IA-64 story.  Now is now, and the new Alphas could lay  M some claims to being the world's fastest computers (note, I don't know where CK they stand in that regard) rather then be introduced as a stop-gap measure.   P Just more of the same from those who's interests lie elsewhere than with Alpha. N   things haven't changed since the mon 1990s, any compliments for VMS and the P systems it runs on seem to always come from the back side of the hand.  Just as Q well, we wouldn't want a real compliment, there are those who might choke on it, b( and we wouldn't want that now, would we?  P It's like "Here's the newest Corvette, but don't worry, we'll find you an Edsel  soon".   Dave   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 23:48:23 +0000 (UTC)-- From: "Rob Heyes" <rob.heyes@btopenworld.com>- Subject: VMS Jokes/ Message-ID: <b0km87$37e$1@helle.btinternet.com>-  K I was wondering if anyone had any VMS jokes. Bit mad, I know, but you know.5   If not, to get us started...  5 "I re-grep ever going to UNIX when VMS is far better"r  
 Ba doom chinge   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 22:14:12 -0600r1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>. Subject: Re: VMS Jokes' Message-ID: <3E2E1A94.7DB5ED33@fsi.net>    Rob Heyes wrote: > M > I was wondering if anyone had any VMS jokes. Bit mad, I know, but you know." >  > If not, to get us started... > 7 > "I re-grep ever going to UNIX when VMS is far better"  >  > Ba doom chingn  0 How do you make Micro$lop fans happy? U NIX VMS.   --   David J. DachteraM dba DJE Systemsa http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Jan 2003 23:44:48 GMT# From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)a. Subject: Re: VMS on Itanic boot report sighted* Message-ID: <b0km1g$j4f$1@web1.cup.hp.com>  P In article <b04r4l$nnt$3@web1.cup.hp.com>, hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:  D :  We did not port either one of the two referenced code generators.  F   This cited statement of mine is is wrong.  We did port and are usingD   GEM, as GEM -- much to my own surprise -- did have an embedded and4   latent capability to generate Intel Itanium code.   D :  The engineering teams are presently actively working with the new- :  compilers and with the new code generator.   A   OpenVMS Engineering is working with OpenVMS compilers using theu=   Itanium code-path within GEM, and with various of the IntelX   compilers.  @   All folks here that wish to have an Itanium code generator for@   embedding within a tool or a compiler will want to acquire and@   use the GCC code generator and the GCC compiler tool chain, or@   will want to work with Intel to license the Intel Itanium code$   generator and related Intel tools.  B   I cannot, do not, and will not recommend the use of the GEM codeA   generator for embedding into customer applications and customer >   compilers or into third-party compiler products, and I would?   personally particularly expect that the GEM generator -- even >   with its Itanium capabilities -- will not be made available.=   I presently expect that GEM is and will continue to be heldi,   rather closely, as has been past practice.  @   If anyone here (or elsewhere) should ask for my opinion aroundB   the potential to grant any individual licenses for access to GEMC   for use of GEM within customer or third-party tools or to provide=A   for the more general release of one or more versions of GEM, myc>   own general recommendation will be against any such release.  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------J       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.comN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.come   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 13:41:20 -0500l From: Jake <jkirby@pop.net>e Subject: Will this post?' Message-ID: <3E2D9450.E95D1E44@pop.net>a   That is the question.    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.043 ************************