1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 05 Jul 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 368       Contents:- =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Assign_9.1_GB_HD=B4s_to_8_GB?=  Are HP listening? 6 Re: Compaq Solutions Aliance - Do it still existing  ?I Re: HP Webcast this morning on Next-Generation Intel Itanium 2 processors  RE: New OpenVMS-to-Itanium FAQ& Re: OpenVMS FAQ and FAQ Website Errata Re: Running VMS off CD Re: Running VMS off CD Re: Running VMS off CD Re: Running VMS off CD Re: Running VMS off CDH Re: Subject: Reading long files in BASIC that appears to be "recordless"P RE: Tri-architecture cluster demonstrated at DECUS Ottawa Technical Update Updat( VAT for non-EU suppliers to EU customers Re: VMS-Upgrade from disk? Re: VMS-Upgrade from disk?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 5 Jul 2003 05:34:15 -0700 - From: contracer11@uol.com.br (Shiva MahaDeva) 6 Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Assign_9.1_GB_HD=B4s_to_8_GB?== Message-ID: <ddf392ea.0307050434.338e9bbd@posting.google.com>   J In my job Im using a MicroVAX 3100-98 (Personal Workstation), VMS V5.5-2.J  In this machine I have ~60 GB in SCSI HDs (a tower with 7 9.1 GB HDs). :  Looking behind this tower , I see BA35X-VA storage model.H  I want assign all 9.1 GB Hds from 9.1 to 8 GB, to avoit constant crashI  in this system. Id like to get a procedure to make this modifications,    in details. Can you help me ?  Thanks in advance...    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jul 2003 11:26:18 -0000 4 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> Subject: Are HP listening?6 Message-ID: <20030705112618.17917.qmail@nym.alias.net>  J Since posting the point about VMS being mentioned as a potential migrationI target I have received further communication from my source who wishes to  remain anonymous.   H This came in the form of an outline of a letter sent to Ms Fiorina, as IN alluded to in an earlier post, the staff who handle her incoming mail were notI exactly helpful, but being rather persistent, my correspondent utilised a + marvellous invention called the telephone.    M Eschewing the more confrontational approach that some have presumably adopted J in communication with senior management at HP, the history surrounding theN hyper-sensitivity of the VMS community was outlined in said letter, along with a list of suggestions.    L Most herein are well aware of the history of neglect relating to VMS, and as' my correspondent approximately put it.    L o With d|i|g|t|a|l under Palmer people asked for VMS marketing and were told   to migrate to NT on Alpha.    N o With Compaq they simply seemed clueless about operating systems that weren't   from toytown.     - Here's my correspondent's list of suggestions   = 1.  Get a major application such as SAP running on VMS again.   7 2.  Get Oracle to treat VMS with a little more respect.   & 3.  Market outside the installed base.  ( 4.  Invest in the Educational Programme.  K 5.  Reintroduce lower-cost hardware and offer a low-cost turnkey web server 
     platform.     N Without trying too hard I see some efforts to address several of these points.L Although, I wouldn't push too hard for SAP.  Too many people I know who haveH worked on it call it the Microsoft of ERP software.  There are other ERPM packages *which already run on VMS*, and HP could buy that particular company ) with what they'd consider pocket change.       Doc. --  K OpenVMS.         Eight out of ten hackers prefer *other* operating systems.    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jul 03 10:12:37 +0200 ) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) ? Subject: Re: Compaq Solutions Aliance - Do it still existing  ? ) Message-ID: <uUquUf658wJv@elias.decus.ch>   w In article <01KXSEF1OR2CAM7Y4A@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:    <snip>   >  See   > / >    http://www.hevanet.com/peace/microsoft.htm  >   - A cracking good article. Thanks for the link.   E > They key point is that the software itself should be able to be as  I > proprietary and closed as it wants to be.  However, it should strictly  I > adhere to standards when file formats, data-exchange protocols etc are  I > involved, i.e. when interaction with other systems is possible.  It is  I > the latter, not the former, area (in addition to bad quality) which is   > Microsoft's problem. >   E A case in point: I received an email on this VMS system containing an C RTF file as an attachment. I successfully used MIME (ugh) to detach % it but the result was downright ugly.   D I seem to remember reading recently (here perhaps?) that RTF was theC least ugly of the M$ formats. Still very ugly, with font/formatting ? information gratuitously thrown in all over, sometimes within a ? word. I wouldn't care, but this was straight text, all the same  font, no bolding or anything.   B I tried converting it to straight text with Word and found that noA way would it put a blank line in between paragraphs. The only way > was to manually insert extra blank lines in Word before saving@ as text. In hindsight I might have been able to print to PDF and? do a copy/paste to get at the text, but the point is clear that B you have to jump through hoops to avoid the BillyGoatGruff format.  A It is worth noting that the resulting file is a mere one third of  the size of the original RTF.   @ I've also just tried the same on my Mac using TextEdit, with the same result :-(    The conclusion?   E Rather than forwarding this information as an attachment, these steps  were necessary:   
 1.  Detach it  2.  Transfer to PC or Mac . 3.  Use either Word or Mac TextEdit to read it5 4.  Manually insert an extra line at paragraph breaks  5.  Save as text. 6.  Transfer back to a VMS system in order to:J 6a. Use TPU to set the right margin at something sensible, select the lot,
     then FILL > 6b. Transfer to the system I wish to send mail from (optional)5 7.  Send the now text only mail to interested parties   D Maybe someone can suggest a faster way, because this definitely tookA some time! Had I received it as straight text with blank lines to A delineate paragraphs, it would have been a matter of 6a to 7 only    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jul 2003 09:16:36 GMT / From: "Dave Weatherall" <djweath@attglobal.net> R Subject: Re: HP Webcast this morning on Next-Generation Intel Itanium 2 processors5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-3Jwl1SdQZVyq@localhost>   1 On Thu, 3 Jul 2003 23:40:42 UTC, Milton B Hewitt   <mbhewitt@optonline.net> wrote:   5 > On Thu, 03 Jul 2003 15:16:06 GMT, "Fred Kleinsorge" * > <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> wrote: > ) > >Found anyone who returns your respect?  > J > I for one, have enormous respect for his technical knowledge, and in his$ > brutal frankness in expressing it. >  > 	 > Cheers,  > Milton   Snap.    --   Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 09:58:52 -0700# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> ' Subject: RE: New OpenVMS-to-Itanium FAQ 9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIIEINHIAA.tom@kednos.com>    >-----Original Message----- ; >From: Russell Wallace [mailto:wallacethinmintr@eircom.net] $ >Sent: Friday, July 04, 2003 5:59 AM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com( >Subject: Re: New OpenVMS-to-Itanium FAQ >  > F >On 4 Jul 2003 06:27:07 -0500, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) >wrote:  > 2 >>In article <3f0520bf.895132384@news.eircom.net>,6 >wallacethinmintr@eircom.net (Russell Wallace) writes:D >>> On Wed, 2 Jul 2003 08:33:36 -0700, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>
 >>> wrote: >>>  >>>>How about ON conditions  >>>  >>> What are those?  >>F >>Presumably they are fully understood by whoever asserted the ease of >>translating PL/I to C. > D >Presumably so, but they aren't fully understood by me, which is whyE >I'm asking :) (My purpose here isn't to assert or refute the ease of C >translating PL/1 to C - I don't care what people choose to do with F >their PL/1 code - it's curiosity about the features of what's said toE >have been in its day the world's premier general purpose programming  >language.)   L Depending upon what you mean by premier, that may still be a true statement.L 10 years ago 20% of all mainframe code in the US was PL/I, 40% in Europe andL 70% in Japan.  I imagine those numbers are a bit lower today, but I wouldn't expectL a dramatic drop.  I have never seen any firm statistics but my guess is that PL/IJ was never installed on more than 10% of VMS systems, but most of those are fortune D 100 companies. (Up until a year ago it was used at the Office of the President!)   = C actually represented a major regressive step in programming J languages, and C++ can hardly be called general purpose, except perhaps in anH abstract sense, since it really depends on which class libraries you are using.H Some semantic analysis has crept into C in recent years, but it pales in comparison to PL/I   >  >--  >"Sore wa himitsu desu." >To reply by email, remove >the small snack from address." >http://www.esatclear.ie/~rwallace >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). A >Version: 6.0.489 / Virus Database: 288 - Release Date: 6/10/2003  >  --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).? Version: 6.0.497 / Virus Database: 296 - Release Date: 7/4/2003    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jul 03 10:18:12 +0200 ) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) / Subject: Re: OpenVMS FAQ and FAQ Website Errata ) Message-ID: <xt02XvEJjt2w@elias.decus.ch>   V In article <3JUL200320473223@gerg.tamu.edu>, carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) writes: > hoff@hp.nospam writes... > } N > }  Text, Postscript, Bookreader, HTML, and related formats and the aggregateL > }  FAQ zip archive for the June 2003 edition of the OpenVMS FAQ should all > } M > }  FAQ-related comments and corrections and updates are welcome, of course.  > } H > }        Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com > B > Hey, a DEC documentation style FAQ! (Or should it be called "VMSC > documentation style"? Is there anything else that uses this style  > anymore?)  > 	 > Spiffy.  >  An index too.    Magic. Well done Hoff.   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jul 2003 11:29:51 -0000 4 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> Subject: Re: Running VMS off CD 6 Message-ID: <20030705112951.28796.qmail@nym.alias.net>  G On Fri, 04 Jul 2003, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:  >"Doc.Cypher" wrote:	 >> [snip] J >> On a slightly related note, does anyone know of a package (available toN >> Hobbyists) which gives similar functionality to the *ix package "tripwire"? > ? >Rather depends on what "tripwire" is and what it does. Care to  >elucidate?   - I came up with half of the solution myself...   G $ SET SECURITY/ACL=((ALARM=SECURITY,ACCESS=WR+DE+CO+SUCCESS+FAILURE), - L                     (AUDIT=SECURITY,ACCESS=WR+DE+CO+SUCCESS+FAILURE)  <file>  I Now, how do I get an email notification sent when one of these conditions  occurs?      Doc. --  K OpenVMS.         Eight out of ten hackers prefer *other* operating systems.    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jul 2003 07:06:27 -0500 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: Re: Running VMS off CD 3 Message-ID: <wwJjm1nrXLO5@eisner.encompasserve.org>   m In article <20030705112951.28796.qmail@nym.alias.net>, Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> writes: I > On Fri, 04 Jul 2003, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:  >>"Doc.Cypher" wrote: 
 >>> [snip]K >>> On a slightly related note, does anyone know of a package (available to O >>> Hobbyists) which gives similar functionality to the *ix package "tripwire"?  >>@ >>Rather depends on what "tripwire" is and what it does. Care to >>elucidate? > / > I came up with half of the solution myself...  > I > $ SET SECURITY/ACL=((ALARM=SECURITY,ACCESS=WR+DE+CO+SUCCESS+FAILURE), - N >                     (AUDIT=SECURITY,ACCESS=WR+DE+CO+SUCCESS+FAILURE)  <file> > K > Now, how do I get an email notification sent when one of these conditions 	 > occurs?   G Set up a detached process running a program you write which establishes I an Audit Listener Mailbox.  Write that program so that it will never quit D reading from the mailbox, as to do so would jam up the audit system.   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jul 2003 12:45:32 -0000 4 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> Subject: Re: Running VMS off CD 6 Message-ID: <20030705124532.30949.qmail@nym.alias.net>  = On 5 Jul 2003, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote: B >In article <20030705112951.28796.qmail@nym.alias.net>, Doc.Cypher, ><Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> writes:J >> On Fri, 04 Jul 2003, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote: >>>"Doc.Cypher" wrote: >>>> [snip] L >>>> On a slightly related note, does anyone know of a package (available toP >>>> Hobbyists) which gives similar functionality to the *ix package "tripwire"? >>> A >>>Rather depends on what "tripwire" is and what it does. Care to 
 >>>elucidate?  >>  0 >> I came up with half of the solution myself... >>  J >> $ SET SECURITY/ACL=((ALARM=SECURITY,ACCESS=WR+DE+CO+SUCCESS+FAILURE), -O >>                     (AUDIT=SECURITY,ACCESS=WR+DE+CO+SUCCESS+FAILURE)  <file>  >>  L >> Now, how do I get an email notification sent when one of these conditions
 >> occurs? > H >Set up a detached process running a program you write which establishesJ >an Audit Listener Mailbox.  Write that program so that it will never quitE >reading from the mailbox, as to do so would jam up the audit system.    Thanks.   0 I have some documentation studying to do now. :)     Doc. --  K OpenVMS.         Eight out of ten hackers prefer *other* operating systems.    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jul 03 18:19:37 +0200 ) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)  Subject: Re: Running VMS off CD ) Message-ID: <C3jrvlmRCjsc@elias.decus.ch>   m In article <20030705124532.30949.qmail@nym.alias.net>, Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> writes: ? > On 5 Jul 2003, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote: C >>In article <20030705112951.28796.qmail@nym.alias.net>, Doc.Cypher - >><Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> writes: K >>> On Fri, 04 Jul 2003, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:  >>>>"Doc.Cypher" wrote:  >>>>> [snip]M >>>>> On a slightly related note, does anyone know of a package (available to Q >>>>> Hobbyists) which gives similar functionality to the *ix package "tripwire"?  >>>>B >>>>Rather depends on what "tripwire" is and what it does. Care to >>>>elucidate? >>> 1 >>> I came up with half of the solution myself...  >>> K >>> $ SET SECURITY/ACL=((ALARM=SECURITY,ACCESS=WR+DE+CO+SUCCESS+FAILURE), - P >>>                     (AUDIT=SECURITY,ACCESS=WR+DE+CO+SUCCESS+FAILURE)  <file> >>> M >>> Now, how do I get an email notification sent when one of these conditions  >>> occurs?  >>I >>Set up a detached process running a program you write which establishes K >>an Audit Listener Mailbox.  Write that program so that it will never quit F >>reading from the mailbox, as to do so would jam up the audit system. > 	 > Thanks.  > 2 > I have some documentation studying to do now. :) >   E Larry is 100% correct there. If your process fails, the mailbox fills 7 up, and for example, example nobody can log in anymore.   G In that case (assuming you are already logged into a suitable account), 0 COPY <audit_mailbox> SOMEFILE unjams the system.  # Please see HELP SET AUDIT /LISTENER    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jul 2003 16:47:48 -0000 4 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> Subject: Re: Running VMS off CD 5 Message-ID: <20030705164748.7171.qmail@nym.alias.net>   7 On 5 Jul 03, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) wrote: B >In article <20030705124532.30949.qmail@nym.alias.net>, Doc.Cypher, ><Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> writes:@ >> On 5 Jul 2003, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote:D >>>In article <20030705112951.28796.qmail@nym.alias.net>, Doc.Cypher. >>><Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> writes:L >>>> On Fri, 04 Jul 2003, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote: >>>>>"Doc.Cypher" wrote:
 >>>>>> [snip] N >>>>>> On a slightly related note, does anyone know of a package (available toF >>>>>> Hobbyists) which gives similar functionality to the *ix package >>>>>> "tripwire"? >>>>> C >>>>>Rather depends on what "tripwire" is and what it does. Care to  >>>>>elucidate?  >>>>  2 >>>> I came up with half of the solution myself... >>>>  L >>>> $ SET SECURITY/ACL=((ALARM=SECURITY,ACCESS=WR+DE+CO+SUCCESS+FAILURE), -I >>>>                     (AUDIT=SECURITY,ACCESS=WR+DE+CO+SUCCESS+FAILURE)  >>>>                     <file>  >>>>  N >>>> Now, how do I get an email notification sent when one of these conditions >>>> occurs? >>> J >>>Set up a detached process running a program you write which establishesL >>>an Audit Listener Mailbox.  Write that program so that it will never quitG >>>reading from the mailbox, as to do so would jam up the audit system.  >>  
 >> Thanks. >>  3 >> I have some documentation studying to do now. :)  >>   > F >Larry is 100% correct there. If your process fails, the mailbox fills8 >up, and for example, example nobody can log in anymore. > H >In that case (assuming you are already logged into a suitable account),1 >COPY <audit_mailbox> SOMEFILE unjams the system.  > $ >Please see HELP SET AUDIT /LISTENER  L Safety on the Freeware looks interesting too.  It mentions handling low/zeroL space conditions - something to investigate when I've more time.  Has anyone" who uses it any comments/feedback?  H Of course, something homegrown also has the "Security Through Obscurity"
 advantage. :)      Doc. --  K OpenVMS.         Eight out of ten hackers prefer *other* operating systems.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 02:55:12 -04000 From: "Jeff Morgan" <vmswiz@geonospamcities.com>Q Subject: Re: Subject: Reading long files in BASIC that appears to be "recordless" - Message-ID: <be5ssb$fls5$1@news3.infoave.net>    Dennis:   J    See if this code snippet works for you. It should handle any record and! file type up to a 4K record size.   =                                                          Jeff         DECLARE LONG EOF_SW, SS    DECLARE STRING WORK_RECORD     RECORD WW_RECORD          STRING WW_DATA = 4096%  END RECORD   MAP (WW_MAP) WW_RECORD WW    WHEN ERROR IN         OPEN "INPUT_FILE:" &1                 FOR INPUT AS FILE #FILE_CHANNEL,& )                 ORGANIZATION UNDEFINED, & !                 RECORDTYPE ANY, &                  MAP WW_MAP, &                  ACCESS READ, &                 ALLOW MODIFY         SS = 0%      USE          SS = 1% 	  END WHEN     IF SS = 1% THEN?         PRINT "CAN'T OPEN INPUT_FILE: " + STR$(ERR) + ERT$(ERR)          EXIT PROGRAM  END IF     GOSUB READ_RECORD  WHILE EOF_SW = 0%           GOSUB DO_SOMETHING           GOSUB READ_RECORD     NEXT     CLOSE FILE_CHANNEL   
  EXIT PROGRAM    READ_RECORD:    WHEN ERROR IN         GET #FILE_CHANNEL 0         WORK_RECORD = LEFT$(WW::WW_DATA,RECOUNT)         EOF_SW = 0%      USE          WORK_RECORD = ""         EOF_SW = 1% 	  END WHEN     RETURN     4 "Dennis Baker" <dennisb@wvhmhc.org> wrote in message7 news:6f29699e.0306271111.2720c9f0@posting.google.com... D > I have a BASIC program that lists files matching numerous wildcardD > patterns, sorted in descending date order, and prompts the user toF > select one for processing.  It opens each file and reads a few linesF > to try to figure out what kind of contents are in them.  Previously,H > it just used LINPUT to get each line of the file.  The problem is some@ > files I've just started receiving are what I believe have beenG > referred to as "unix-like" files: they don't have individual records,  > so a GET results in    . . .    > There should be G > an easier way to read any file in BASIC block by block, regardless of ( > it's file attributes, but I'm stumped. > " > Dennis Baker, Programmer/Analyst > Wabash Valley Hospital  > dennisb at dontspam wvhmhc.org   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 06:34:07 -0700# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> Y Subject: RE: Tri-architecture cluster demonstrated at DECUS Ottawa Technical Update Updat 9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKEILHIAA.tom@kednos.com>   
 Just curious.    >-----Original Message----- 8 >From: Lars Holmstrm [mailto:lars.holmstrom@flysta.net]$ >Sent: Friday, July 04, 2003 3:09 PM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComC >Subject: Re: Tri-architecture cluster demonstrated at DECUS Ottawa  >Technical Update Update Update  >  > > >Possible ? It is not supported. I also guess it can not since >there are only L >one single instance of many functionallity block like SYSGEN parameters etc+ >that are required by the (single) cluster.  > H >Why do you ask (Do you have a problem we can help you solve, or are you >simply curious) ? >  >/Lars >  > / >"Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message 4 >news:CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIGEIAHIAA.tom@kednos.com...D >> Is it possible for a VMS image to be a member of two separate and( >> distinct clusters?  A cluster bridge? >> >> >-----Original Message-----5 >> >From: Nic Clews [mailto:sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]] ' >> >Sent: Friday, July 04, 2003 8:45 AM  >> >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com F >> >Subject: Re: Tri-architecture cluster demonstrated at DECUS Ottawa" >> >Technical Update Update Update >> > >> > >> >David McKenzie wrote:  >> >> L >> >> It seems to me that this may be the time to address the whole issue ofB >> >> supported and unsupported. Without wishing to get to "legal" >> >this has always I >> >> been a "nice" concept, in the English sense rather than a real one.  >> >> @ >> >> When there was a "Digital" and it was really competing for >> >market share it D >> >> was more than content to stretch for market share. Nowadays it >> >appears thatG >> >> people are obsessed by "contract" in the formal sense rather than H >> >> innovation. This is a debate that leads to lawyers splitting hairs >rather 3 >> >> than technicians dealing with practicalities.  >> >> E >> >> Why isn't it possible to get back to a system where all players  >> >are honest, E >> >> and there is that which is supported, i.e. no option but for HP  >> >to provide aF >> >> solution, and that which is reasonable, "should work, negligence
 >> >accepted, C >> >> but stupidity ignored", and " your on your own mate, it might  >> >work, but it >> >> might not".  >> >> B >> >> There was a time where, and I mean this as a legal term, the >> >intent to act G >> >> reasonablely, and accept reasonable risk was a commercial reality  >rather < >> >> than a legal excuse to suck the hell out of inovation. >> >> - >> >> Anyway, maybe this is too off the topic  >> >K >> >No not really. I left in all what you said because it is correct and in I >> >context. At the recent update, Andy Goldstein who came over to the UK L >> >did talk specifically about clustering with VAX and he said, but gave noI >> >public hint to, cluster wide features that could only ever be seen on K >> >Alpha and Itanium, and the participation of a VAX would prevent the use K >> >of the features to the non-VAX members. It's more technical than legal. L >> >While it may be "innovative" to have a tri-architecture cluster, it will7 >> >also stifle it, due to the limitations of the same.  >> >I >> >The support is a legal issue that is backed up with amount of effort. L >> >With a given amount of effort, it could be spent perfecting the port andK >> >the alignment of Alpha and Itanium, or spent including (supporting) the L >> >VAX architecture, and limiting the former. I know what I'd vote for, and> >> >I don't need a legal contract, it is down to practicality. >> > >> >--C >> >Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  >> >nclews at csc dot com  >> > >> >--- * >> >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.> >> >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).D >> >Version: 6.0.489 / Virus Database: 288 - Release Date: 6/10/2003 >> > >> ---) >> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. = >> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). C >> Version: 6.0.489 / Virus Database: 288 - Release Date: 6/10/2003  >> >  >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). A >Version: 6.0.489 / Virus Database: 288 - Release Date: 6/10/2003  >  --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).? Version: 6.0.497 / Virus Database: 296 - Release Date: 7/4/2003    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jul 03 11:03:55 +0200 ) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) 1 Subject: VAT for non-EU suppliers to EU customers ) Message-ID: <nkNlvZmWMkfR@elias.decus.ch>   f In article <3f051846.892963013@news.eircom.net>, wallacethinmintr@eircom.net (Russell Wallace) writes:H > On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 16:33:57 GMT, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote: > G >>A California law that takes effect July 1 will force companies inside G >>and outside the state to do what they historically have been loath to : >>do: disclose embarrassing information-security breaches. > F > I'm no lawyer, so perhaps I'm missing something obvious, but how canA > the California legislature exert force on companies that aren't  > located in California? >   H This subject tickles me to death, although I'm more qualified to commentI on the case of the EU asking non-EU suppliers to charge EU customers VAT.   D VAT is difficult enough for those who deal with it during the normalE course of their business. From my own experience even fully qualified 0 accountants have been known to get things wrong.  C How on earth can you expect someone who has never come across it to  administer it properly?   B Having said that, if there any non-EU readers this affects, I haveC quite a bit of experience of VAT matters, so please ask (offline to ? avoid cluttering the newsgroup) if it all seems a bit daunting.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 06:36:06 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)# Subject: Re: VMS-Upgrade from disk? L Message-ID: <rdeininger-0507030636060001@user-105n804.dialup.mindspring.com>  2 In article <3F05B78B.97027BCD@istop.com>, JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote:    O >On ALPHA, must one absolutely boot from another drive (CD etc) to install on a L >system disk, or can one simply copy the .PCSI files and do a product instal >over the running system ?  J You have to boot from a separate device.  The OS doesn't get packaged intoE a single PCSI file.  Instead the files on the CD are already (mostly) J located in their proper directories.  OS kits are NOT like layered product kits.    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jul 2003 05:50:51 -0500 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) # Subject: Re: VMS-Upgrade from disk? 3 Message-ID: <0OvE738J9Rtd@eisner.encompasserve.org>    In article <rdeininger-0507030636060001@user-105n804.dialup.mindspring.com>, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes: 4 > In article <3F05B78B.97027BCD@istop.com>, JF Mezei$ > <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote: >  > P >>On ALPHA, must one absolutely boot from another drive (CD etc) to install on aM >>system disk, or can one simply copy the .PCSI files and do a product instal  >>over the running system ?  > L > You have to boot from a separate device.  The OS doesn't get packaged intoG > a single PCSI file.  Instead the files on the CD are already (mostly) L > located in their proper directories.  OS kits are NOT like layered product > kits.   E For typical layered product kits.  But a layered product kit _should_ J be built as a reference kit (as used for OS kits) rather than a sequentialF kit (as used by most layered product kits) if one wants to provide theJ ability to run the layered product directly from CDROM.  That is a featureF that was designed into PCSI but never fully supported by providing theL necessary command procedures as part of VMS.  The brave can write their own.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.368 ************************