1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 17 Jul 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 391       Contents:% Re: 36 x DS10L 617 for only USD20,000  Re: 4000 500 refuse to mop boot  Re: 4000 500 refuse to mop boot % Re: Backup Software for VMS and Linux  Re: Burning a CD? or?  Re: Burning a CD? or? 0 Re: but in AUTOGEN and/or SYSMAN in VMS 7.3 VAX?0 Re: but in AUTOGEN and/or SYSMAN in VMS 7.3 VAX? Re: Can VMS ZIP encrypt? Re: Concerns about buying Alpha  Re: DCL encryption technique Re: DCL encryption techniqueP Does anyone remember IAS? (was: Re: What color were the VMS  manuals for old ver Re: Good code profilers on VMS?  Re: Good code profilers on VMS?  Granularity hint region ' Re: How do I determine File using LBA # + Re: HP World: Why Alpha's Omega Makes Sense + Re: HP World: Why Alpha's Omega Makes Sense + Re: HP World: Why Alpha's Omega Makes Sense P Re: Intel's had Dirty Bombs Anthrax and everything! (Was: Re: HP World: Why Alph@ Re: More than VMS is required, but VMS is a great starting point1 Need help configuring DCPS queue with MSAP$DEVCTL  Re: OpenVMS  NCP quiestion? K Re: OpenVMS Pearl - OpenVMS V8.0, first release on Itanium, ships  today!!! P Re: OpenVMS Pearl - OpenVMS V8.0, first release on Itanium, ships today!!! today/ Re: OpenVMS Technical Seminar Highlights (some)  openvms-alpha license * Re: OT: HP's PeeCee customer statisfaction* Re: OT: HP's PeeCee customer statisfactionA Re: PCSI producer and VMS facility name for Freeware/GPL Software A Re: PCSI producer and VMS facility name for Freeware/GPL Software  Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates  Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates  Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates  Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates  Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates % Re: PDP-11 OS/Layered Cross Reference % Re: PDP-11 OS/Layered Cross Reference % Re: PDP-11 OS/Layered Cross Reference  Re: Pony Express: Re: Showing what processes are attached to a specific file, Re: simple questions on generic batch queues
 T4 utility5 Re: What color were the VMS manuals for old versions? 5 Re: What color were the VMS manuals for old versions? 5 Re: What color were the VMS manuals for old versions? 5 Re: What color were the VMS manuals for old versions? 5 Re: What color were the VMS manuals for old versions? 5 Re: What color were the VMS manuals for old versions? 5 Re: What color were the VMS manuals for old versions? 5 Re: What color were the VMS manuals for old versions? 5 Re: What color were the VMS manuals for old versions? 5 Re: What color were the VMS manuals for old versions?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 20:48:36 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> . Subject: Re: 36 x DS10L 617 for only USD20,000' Message-ID: <3F160074.FFFEB706@fsi.net>   
 Island wrote:  >  > Yes- it's true >  > This is what you get:  > , > 36 x Alphaserver DS10L Systems 617Mhz EV67 > 256MBCompaq Memory per system  > 30GB 7200RPM IDE Disk in each  > Dual 10/100 per system > Mounted in 42U Cabinet > 8 > Total US$20,000 + $1400 shipping in EU, USA and Canada- > Other countries no problem - call for quote  > " > That is a unit price of $556 !!! > K > Note this offer is a consignment offer so we CANNOT split this ourselves.  > " > Now find a P4 for that price !!! > J > Unit prices are considerably higher, so take advantage of this offer for > multiple departments.   > That thumping sound you hear is not a throbbing headache, it'sG opportunity knocking. See if you can convince the boss to have Islandco F buy it, then split it up yourselves and sell the DS10Ls with the rails for a FAIR price.   E If I had the $20K, I'd do it myself. Probably worth a BUNDLE on eBay.   B I doubt anyone will begrudge you a FAIR markup for your efforts...   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jul 2003 12:42:54 -0700/ From: dan.williams@btconnect.com (Dan Williams) ( Subject: Re: 4000 500 refuse to mop boot= Message-ID: <dd7df538.0307161142.6f27cc17@posting.google.com>    > @ > I'd guess that you don't have terminators on the 2 DSSI ports.> > VMS will try to establish who else is on the DSSI bus, since: > it's a valid cluster communications medium.  Your actual  ' > connection with OZZY is via Ethernet.  >  > Roy Omond  > Blue Bubble Ltd.  E I have a r400x cabinet on one of the dssi, ports but that did give me > an idea. I took out all the boards one by one and the klesi-saF m7740pa, was causing it not to boot. I can't find a lot of informationA on this, but it seems to be a tape controller. Should this have a E terminator on it ?, or has it just failed. I don't think i'd probably  ever use it though.    Thanks again Dan    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 23:30:56 +0100 ) From: Antonio Carlini <arcarlini@iee.org> ( Subject: Re: 4000 500 refuse to mop boot? Message-ID: <xmkRa.12984$nP.2707@newsfep4-winn.server.ntli.net>    Dan Williams wrote:   @ > an idea. I took out all the boards one by one and the klesi-saH > m7740pa, was causing it not to boot. I can't find a lot of informationC > on this, but it seems to be a tape controller. Should this have a - > terminator on it ?, or has it just failed.    B I've never tried a KLESI in a VAX 4000 but I did find that a KZQSAC with no a missing terminator on one of its two SCSI ports prevented A a VAX 4000 from booting properly (i.e. at all). The MicroVAX 3600 5 next door seemed just fine with that when I tried it.   A So, unusual though it may seem, you probably have got to the root  of the problem.   > As for losing cluster connectivity over ethernet, that used to@ happen to my 4000s too. Never tracked that one down either since? after losing and regaining connectivity a few times, they would > get past the "flakey" part of the boot and work flawlessly for: the rest of the year until the next annual power shutdown.   Antonio    --     --   --------------- - Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.org    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jul 2003 16:40:58 -0700/ From: prosullivan@aol.com (prosullivan@aol.com) . Subject: Re: Backup Software for VMS and Linux= Message-ID: <a14b767a.0307161540.246b289e@posting.google.com>    hmm.    = There was a thread I started several months ago going through F restoring bootable VMS system disks "Legato vs TSM for VMS backup prosB and cons", and the considered opinion was use vms backup/image forE your restore. Now, since then I have been thinking. (not a good sign)    Why not try this: C - backup/image vms system disks to remote Tru64 UNIX server running A DECnet on dedicated network card (stay with me here) - rexec from  server or batch job on VMS. D - Backup the VMS saveset files on the UNIX file system on backup LAN) using your favourite UNIX backup product. A - Restore the .SAV file on the UNIX system, back it up across the ! network, restore to scratch disk.   E Now you will have to apply the file attributes back on the saveset on  the VMS side before restoring.  F The beauty of this concept is that I can have many vms systems backingF up disk to very few UNIX backup servers. I don't have to buy VMS agentF software that doesn't do what VMS BACKUP/IMAGE can do, and I know that- file attributes settings are supported by HP.   F btw I raised a support call with HP networks (DECnet). I got a stunnedF silence from the (very helpful) support person, followed by a 'that'llD never work, I can honestly say that no-one has ever tried this, even6 at Digital [wait for frantic typing] - gulp! it does.'  C You can do remote backup command from a VMS system to a UNIX system E running DECnet and it will create the .SAV file. OK, UNIX file system @ will corrupt structure, but I can fix that back on the VMS side.  E At the risk of getting hate mail from legato/tivoli/legato etc, I get D all the advantages of the multi-streaming byte tape technology, blahF blah blah using my very expensive UNIX backup infrastructure with none2 of the third-party agent support headache for VMS.     I could be wrong here, but...   F btw you could in theory use nfs to do the same thing from all your VMSD systems, but with loads of differences between UCX/TCPIP third-party: nfs 'features' why bother. At least I know DECnet works...   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 23:23:09 +0100 ) From: Antonio Carlini <arcarlini@iee.org>  Subject: Re: Burning a CD? or?? Message-ID: <efkRa.12976$nP.5674@newsfep4-winn.server.ntli.net>   ' Jim Agnew - VCU/MCV Neurosurgery wrote:   B > I caution you to burn more than 2 copies.  I've made my share of > "coasters"....  @ I assumed (I know, I know) that he'd check the final result with@ BACKUP/COMPARE. When I salvaged the systems I salvaged it took a> lot longer to do the post-burn verifcation than anything else.  @ Then I burnt zips of the /IMAGE backups to DVDs just to be sure.  4 And the two sets are in separate physical locations.  > Having lost data before, I think I've become a tad paranoid in my old age.    Antonio      --   --------------- - Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.org    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 20:34:54 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>  Subject: Re: Burning a CD? or?' Message-ID: <3F15FD3E.F688CD46@fsi.net>   % morphis@niuhep.physics.niu.edu wrote:  > E > After about 15 years the state budget cuts finally found me and I'm  > looking for a new job... > D > While the boss is being very nice about it eventually I'm going toC > have to move 15 years worth of accumulated files off the AS 1000A 9 > (which will also disappear after I go) running VMS 7.1.  > / > This comes to something around 100 megabytes.  > H > I realize that isn't close to a full CD, but all I really have at homeB > is a CD player and a floppy drive and in view of my finances ... >   > Is there a recipe for do this? > F > Would I be better off transferring all the files to a pc (via vmstarC > and/or ftp and/or samba) and burning the cd there? (I could use a C > departmental PC which is hooked up to the ethernet, my home pc is   > hooked up via a 56k line :-( ) > D > The other alternative is to use a parallel port zip drive (250mb),A > but I was under the impression that using the parallel port for 8 > anything other than a printer was problematic at best. > / > Thank you for any advice you can give me, ...   H Well, I've been there. So, I know bux are tight, but is there any chanceE you can pick up a suitable SBB (RZ2x-VA) and copy your stuff onto it?   D Otherwise, see how small it'll ZIP down. I have some DCL (yes! DCL!)E that will split up Fixed-512 files into diskette-size pieces that you C can then copy using your choice of PC magic to FAT format diskettes D (DOS, Win), copy to your PC's hard disk, and then I have a .BAT fileE that will reconcatenate the pieces in the right order. You could then < burn a Joliet or ISO-9660 CD, FTP it to your next site, etc.  G Better still: e-mail me privately, and we can maybe work out a way that 0 I can burn CDs of your files using my gear here.  G I'm also thinking that Larry K.'s LJK-CDROM could be useful here (build G an ISO-9660 image with the RMS data cells fully populated). We can look G into that. If I don't already have it (think I do), I'll get it, 'cuz I  need it for me, anyway.    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 13:27:33 -0400 5 From: David Beatty <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com> 9 Subject: Re: but in AUTOGEN and/or SYSMAN in VMS 7.3 VAX? 2 Message-ID: <FIoVP2x+yXjSRaB+1fnwZGNZ4KL=@4ax.com>  ) On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 20:06:11 +0000 (UTC), C helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to 
 reply) wrote:   
 >$  MC SYSMAN  >SET ENV/CLUST >SET PROFILE/PRIV=ALL  >DO @SYS$UPDATE:AUTOGEN  > I >This works fine on 7.2-1 ALPHA and 7.2 VAX (no patches (yet)).  When it   >hits the 7.3 VAX, I get   > @ >   %AUTOGEN-E-NOPRIV, SYSPRV privilege required to run AUTOGEN.D >   %AUTOGEN-I-NOP, AUTOGEN has not attempted to execute any phases. > F >If I execute AUTOGEN on the 7.3 node and set the priv beforehand, it I >works.  What confuses me is mainly why it doesn't work from SYSMAN from  ? >another node---that's the whole point of SET PROF/PRIV, right?  > D >(I don't use the SYSTEM account.  It doesn't have NETWORK access.  H >Trying to use it doesn't work---because it doesn't have NETWORK access?H >In other words, does SYSMAN do a NETWORK access, or is there some back I >door and multi-node SYSMAN from SYSTEM isn't working for other reasons?)  > J >Presumably, SYSPRV has always been required to run AUTOGEN.  Apparently, J >it was silently enabled (if possible with the account in question) prior ' >to 7.3.  Is this documented somewhere?   ;     I don't know if SYSMAN performs a NETWORK access to get > to the other nodes in a cluster, but it does take advantage of DECNET proxies, if they exist.  :     From the V7.3 node, make sure your account has default DECNET proxy access.  <     There is a patch for VAX V7.2 (VAXMANA01_072) for SYSMAN2 environment issues, so might want to look into it.   David R. Beatty    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 13:36:14 -0400 5 From: David Beatty <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com> 9 Subject: Re: but in AUTOGEN and/or SYSMAN in VMS 7.3 VAX? 2 Message-ID: <k4sVP9EjrdgpGiOwhP9qG6InkqjP@4ax.com>  0 On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 13:27:33 -0400, David Beatty) <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com> wrote:   * >On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 20:06:11 +0000 (UTC),D >helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to >reply) wrote: >  >>$  MC SYSMAN >>SET ENV/CLUST  >>SET PROFILE/PRIV=ALL >>DO @SYS$UPDATE:AUTOGEN >>J >>This works fine on 7.2-1 ALPHA and 7.2 VAX (no patches (yet)).  When it  >>hits the 7.3 VAX, I get  >>A >>   %AUTOGEN-E-NOPRIV, SYSPRV privilege required to run AUTOGEN. E >>   %AUTOGEN-I-NOP, AUTOGEN has not attempted to execute any phases.  >>G >>If I execute AUTOGEN on the 7.3 node and set the priv beforehand, it  J >>works.  What confuses me is mainly why it doesn't work from SYSMAN from @ >>another node---that's the whole point of SET PROF/PRIV, right? >>E >>(I don't use the SYSTEM account.  It doesn't have NETWORK access.   I >>Trying to use it doesn't work---because it doesn't have NETWORK access? I >>In other words, does SYSMAN do a NETWORK access, or is there some back  J >>door and multi-node SYSMAN from SYSTEM isn't working for other reasons?) >>K >>Presumably, SYSPRV has always been required to run AUTOGEN.  Apparently,  K >>it was silently enabled (if possible with the account in question) prior  ( >>to 7.3.  Is this documented somewhere? > < >    I don't know if SYSMAN performs a NETWORK access to get? >to the other nodes in a cluster, but it does take advantage of  >DECNET proxies, if they exist.  > ; >    From the V7.3 node, make sure your account has default  >DECNET proxy access.  > = >    There is a patch for VAX V7.2 (VAXMANA01_072) for SYSMAN 3 >environment issues, so might want to look into it.  >  >David R. Beatty  ;     I've verified that the process type is OTHER when using  SYSMAN.   -     You might also check your SYS$SYLOGIN and , LGICMD procedures and make sure they are not disabling privileges.    David R. Beatty    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 19:53:10 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> ! Subject: Re: Can VMS ZIP encrypt? ' Message-ID: <3F15F376.A7A9EF1C@fsi.net>    David Gray wrote:  >  > That will do nicely. > 	 > Thanks,  >         Dave.  > 5 > On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 10:07:27 +0200, "Gorazd Kikelj"  > <gorazd.kikelj@hp.com> wrote:  >  > > 5 > >"David Gray" <police@spamcop.net> wrote in message 5 > >news:5b78hvciuc1m1beeb1oidkq8o9dilnel91@4ax.com...  > > E > >> I downloaded a new distribution of zip and unzip, set up the CLI 3 > >> version of ZIP and this is what it gives me...  > >> > >... > >> No /ENCRPYPT switch.  > >> > >... > >> >David Gray wrote:  > >> >> Greetings all, > >> >> I > >> >> Can Zip encrypt files?   My version of zip (2.3) does not mention L > >> >> anything on the help screen about encruption, but reading the manual2 > >> >> it appears that the switch -e can be used. > >> >>  > >> >> Any ideas? > >> >> 
 > >> >> Dave.  > >> > >  > >Hi, > > 2 > >Try zip from ftp://ftp.icce.rug.nl/infozip/VMS/ > > / > >there are executables build with encription.    U.S. Folks Note:    E Once you download the encrypting version, re-exporting it is a no-no. C That's why you have to go to outside the US to find it in the first  place.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 19:58:31 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> ( Subject: Re: Concerns about buying Alpha' Message-ID: <3F15F4B7.C57A2B9B@fsi.net>   
 Island wrote:  > J > Just out of curiosity - and yes, I know a lot of you can't or wopn't buy > from Island. > M > What is the general opinion of buying Alpha systems now the Itanium looks a  > wee bit more viable ?   @ Still waiting for Itanic to go mainstream and gain industry-wide4 acceptance. Until then, its still Alpha all the way.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 19:58:41 -0400 . From: Mike Bartman <omni@foolie.omniphile.com>% Subject: Re: DCL encryption technique 8 Message-ID: <4bpbhvs830jmhsibasv79mg7n1817iqd8t@4ax.com>  < On 16 Jul 2003 09:10:51 -0700, rlfitch67@msn.com (RF) wrote:  E >Looking for a **simple** (and expedient) DCL encrytion technique for @ >encrypting (encoding??) a character string (1-30 characters) to  >disguise (hide) string content. >  >Any help is appreciated.  > 
 >Ransom Fitch   B You could use ROT-13.  It's very easy to write, especially in TPU:   ! F !  trans_rot13() is a procedure for translating ROT-13 encoded strings into> !  clear text.  When invoked, trans_rot13() will translate the selectedF !  text in place (use the select key and move the cursor to select the text). !  procedure trans_rot13;,     local RotRange, CharString, TransString;  F CharString  := "ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz";F TransString := "NOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMnopqrstuvwxyzabcdefghijklm";       RotRange := SELECT_RANGE;      message( "Working..."); A     TRANSLATE( RotRange, TransString, CharString, IN_PLACE );     '     message( "Translation complete." ); 
 endprocedure;   D Translating this into DCL shouldn't be too hard if you don't want toD invoke TPU to do it.  TRANSLATE just finds a char in one string, andE swaps it with the one in the same position from the other string.  It F was a quick way to implement the "move each character 13 spaces in the alphabet" algorithm.  D ROT-13 is reversible too...run a string through it twice and you areF back to the original.  Not real secure, but it hides what's there from casual readers.    -- Mike Bartman   @ ----------------------------------------------------------------=   To reply via e-mail, remove the 'foolie.' from the address. %   I'm getting sick of all the SPAM... @ ----------------------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------   Date: 16 Jul 2003 19:20 CDT ' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) % Subject: Re: DCL encryption technique - Message-ID: <16JUL200319200728@gerg.tamu.edu>   ^ In article <bb72fed8.0307160810.526ffe4c@posting.google.com>, rlfitch67@msn.com (RF) writes...E }Looking for a **simple** (and expedient) DCL encrytion technique for @ }encrypting (encoding??) a character string (1-30 characters) to  }disguise (hide) string content. }  }Any help is appreciated.  } 
 }Ransom Fitch   2 What time is it? It's time for a Stupid DCL Trick.  B You have not given some pieces of info that would be good to know,C but I didn't let that stop me. Becasue of this, it may not be quite  what you need.  = So below is a fairly simple bit of DCL. Put it in a .COM file % called EC-DEC.COM or some such thing.   E If you pass two parameters it will encrypt the first using the second - as the password using a rather simple method.   F If you pass a 3rd parameter it will decrypt the first using the second: as a password (the 3rd is not actually used for anything).  A This doesn't just conceal the string, it does actually encrypt it 8 (although the encryption method is not incredibly good).   Notes:G 1) The resulting string will not normally be composed of only printable I    characters. This may be a major drawback, but you didn't say it needed 	    to be. H 2) The length of the original string is encoded in the first byte of the    resulting string.G 3) This should work to encrypt input strings up to 189 characters long, I    but the code limits you to 180 (truncating without warning, actually). I 4) If a string to be encrypted does not have it's length evenly divisible H    by 3, it is padded with spaces. Since the length of the original dataK    is encoded, rather than the length of the padded data, these spaces will &    not appear in the decrypted string.. 5) This method of encryption is not very good.M 6) There are no comments in the code. Oh well. It isn't very long or complex. L 7) It may be possible for the decrytion shown below to fail - if a characterJ    in the result variable is actually a NUL, then DCL will stop parsing atK    that point leaving you running with only part of the first parameter and L    no second or third parameter. If the input string and password string areI    all printable characters it might not be possible to get a null byte - H    I havn't looked into it to find out. It is also possible that the NUL=    character is not the only one that will end DCL's parsing. K 8) You may want to add some error checking, such as making sure that P2 was     actually specified.> 9) This uses a global symbol named RESULT to store the result.< 10) I have probably forgotten something that should go here.  5 Example of encrypting and then decrypting the result:   8 $ @ec-dc "Jackdaws love my big sphinx of quartz." foobarC   RESULT == "&<.,......ع..9.fn.F.}: g.*%@h. ..L%\."  $ @ec-dc "''result'" foobar d 4   RESULT == "Jackdaws love my big sphinx of quartz."  F Most, or maybe all, of the "." characters in the encrypted version are@ actually unprintable characters rather than real "." characters.   The DCL is below.    --- Carl   $ z = P1	 $ pw = P2  $ pwlen = F$Length(pw) $ pwpointer = 0  $ result == ""$ $ If P3 .NES. "" Then $ GoTo DECRYPT $! $ length = F$Length(z) $ result[0,8] == length  $ If (length/3)*3 .NE. length  $ Then $   z = z + " "  $   length = length + 1  $   If (length/3)*3 .NE. length  $   Then $     z = z + " "  $     length = length + 1 	 $   EndIf  $ EndIf  $LOOP1:  $ If length .EQ. 0 $ Then
 $   GoTo DONE  $ Else $   If length .GE. 3 $   Then? $     current[0,32] = F$CVUI(0,24,z) * F$CVUI(pwpointer*8,8,pw) . $     result == result + F$FAO("!4AS",current) $   Else $     If length .EQ. 2
 $     ThenA $       current[0,32] = F$CVUI(0,16,z) * F$CVUI(pwpointer*8,8,pw) 0 $       result == result + F$FAO("!3AS",current) $     Else  @ $       current[0,32] = F$CVUI(0,8,z) * F$CVUI(pwpointer*8,8,pw)0 $       result == result + F$FAO("!2AS",current) $     EndIf 	 $   EndIf  $   z = F$Extract(3,180,z) $   length = F$Length(z)   $ EndIf  $ pwpointer = pwpointer+1 , $ If pwpointer .EQ. pwlen Then pwpointer = 0 $ GoTo LOOP1 $!	 $DECRYPT:  $ reslen = F$CVUI(0,8,z) $ z = F$Extract(1,250,z) $LOOP2:  $ length = F$Length(z)   $ If length .EQ. 0 $ Then( $   result == F$Extract(0,reslen,result)
 $   GoTo DONE  $ Else $   If length .GE. 4 $   Then> $     current[0,24] = F$CVUI(0,32,z)/ F$CVUI(pwpointer*8,8,pw) $   Else $     If length .EQ. 3
 $     Then@ $       current[0,24] = F$CVUI(0,24,z)/ F$CVUI(pwpointer*8,8,pw)
 $     Else $       If length .EQ. 2 $       ThenH $         current[0,24] = F$CVUI(0,16,current)/ F$CVUI(pwpointer*8,8,pw) $       ElseA $         current[0,24] = F$CVUI(0,8,z)/ F$CVUI(pwpointer*8,8,pw) 
 $       EndIf  $     EndIf 	 $   EndIf  $   z = F$Extract(4,255,z), $   result == result + F$FAO("!3AS",current) $ EndIf  $ pwpointer = pwpointer+1 , $ If pwpointer .EQ. pwlen Then pwpointer = 0 $ GoTo LOOP2 $DONE: $ show symbol result $ Exit   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 23:23:25 -0400 + From: Ken Robinson <kenrbnsn1@patmedia.net> Y Subject: Does anyone remember IAS? (was: Re: What color were the VMS  manuals for old ver A Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20030716225854.04419f88@mail.patmedia.net>   1 At 04:36 PM 7/16/2003 -0400, you wrote (in part): G >PRE (under RSX and IAS [anyone remember that one???? on a PDP-11/70 no  >less])   F I remember IAS on a PDP 11/70 in 1977 (I think it was V1 at the time).  J I started a new job as an applications programmer to do COBOL! When I got D there, the system had just been installed. My manager and one other L co-worker were going to be at DEC school learning about the system. Fortran B was installed and an interpretive version of COBOL. I was given a B non-privileged account, all of the manuals, a terminal (an old HP & terminal), and told to go "play".  :-)   Ken Robinson   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 03:43:12 +0800 , From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>( Subject: Re: Good code profilers on VMS?- Message-ID: <873ch61cmn.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   . Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes:  - > ejohnson@factset.com (Eric Johnson) writes:  > k >> Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote in message news:<PlgoFTrSs3pz@eisner.encompasserve.org>...  >>E >>> There are some profilers on other operating systems that actually 2 >>> require a separate compilation for profiling ! > M >> It beats not having one, which is where serious developers are on OpenVMS.  > K > You can use DCPI, and that works on untouched code. It realy helps if you J > have the extra files to translate PCs to code locations etc :) And it is	 > free!!!   J Hate to follow up to my own, but the VMS journal has an article on DCPI soE you may want to start there. See a later post from Sue as to the URL.    --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 23:25:39 +0100 ) From: Antonio Carlini <arcarlini@iee.org> ( Subject: Re: Good code profilers on VMS?> Message-ID: <AhkRa.12977$nP.163@newsfep4-winn.server.ntli.net>   Ken Randell wrote:  A >>Additionally, the EDS teams are probably busy doing the DECnet, ? >>X.25, SNA and DECset (and whatever else they manage) ports to = >>Itanium so my guess is that you'll have to hold your breath  >>even longer. >> >  > ( > Isn't DECWindows on that list as well?  B They do look after other things too and DECwindows was on the list@ but only the OpenVMS VAX version IIRC. Different codebase to the" Alpha side of the house I believe.  @ It's been nearly three years now since I was there so more stuff may have migrated across.    Antonio    --     --   --------------- - Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.org    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 16:10:00 -0400 * From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com>  Subject: Granularity hint region- Message-ID: <3F1578D8.6645.13B1D29@localhost>   F Since starting with VMS 7.2 on Alpha, I've been attempting to use the ? granularity hint region to speed operation of several run-time  
 libraries.  D After boot, each call to INSTALL succeeds without errors.  However, B if I later attempt to re-install the libraries (INSTALL DELETE or . INSTALL REPLACE), I get the following message:  8 %INSTALL-I-NONRES, image installed ignoring '/RESIDENT' 1 DISK$ALPHASYS:<SYS0.SYSCOMMON.SYSLIB>CRISPRTL.EXE < -INSTALL-E-NOGHREG, insufficient memory in the code or data  granularity hint region   . I have the following entries in MODPARAMS.DAT:     MIN_GH_RSRVPGCNT        = 400     MIN_GH_EXEC_CODE        = 8192    MIN_GH_EXEC_DATA        = 8192    MIN_GH_RES_CODE         = 8192    MIN_GH_RES_DATA         = 8192  D The RTL's do get installed, but (apparently) without benefit of the  GH regions.   4 I'm currently on VMS 7.3-1 with all ECO's installed.   Can anyone help?  
 --Stan Quayle  Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------C Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363  Fax: +1 614 868-1671 1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147 = Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 03:29:58 +0800 , From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>0 Subject: Re: How do I determine File using LBA #- Message-ID: <877k6i1d8p.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   4 Scott.J.Belviso@grc.nasa.gov (Scott Belviso) writes:   > 	 B > When I get a disk error it specifies the LBA # that reported theF > error.  I would like to translate that to the actual file located onF > that spot on the disk so I can further analyze the file.  Is there a3 > way to convert the LBA to an actual file/file id?   B Get and install DFU, or do ANAL/DISK/READ and enjoy your coffee :)  8 The last will tell you the file name that has the error.   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 20:13:23 GMT 9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> 4 Subject: Re: HP World: Why Alpha's Omega Makes Sense/ Message-ID: <DliRa.189$pA2.55@news.cpqcorp.net>   H If you want a cost effective desktop, there is no competition for a wellF equiped IA32 PC.  Non-Intel systems just aren't competetive.  The onlyL market for non-IA32 desktops is for legacy/compatability, highly specializedD custom applications, as development systems, and the lunatic fringe.  I I don't care if it's Solaris, VMS, or any other non-Windows O/S - you get G cheaper hardware, cheaper software, a wider variety of software, higher 0 performance graphics, etc, etc, on IA32/Windows.  F An Oopteron desktop has no real appeal - except to a handful of peopleI (compared to the overal market) interested in developing for Win64.  It's L more expensive and more limited.  So it would appeal to a very small segment of the overall market.  C I would expect a $4000 IPF system to appeal to someone who wants to C write/port VMS code - where the fact that you can buy a $2000 PC is 3 meaningless - since it doesn't do what you require.   4 "Carl Perkins" <carl@gerg.tamu.edu> wrote in message' news:15JUL200321114996@gerg.tamu.edu... < > In article <vh868q78ftpbcd@corp.supernews.com>, Greg Cagle <gregc@gregcagle.com> writes... + > }Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:  > } < > }> AMD will also be able to build 64bit desktops something< > }> that you cannot do economically or easily with Itanium. > } 1 > }http://www.hp.com/workstations/itanium/zx2000/  > }  > }Web price $3298.  > }  > }-- 
 > }Greg Cagle  > H > Which is not a good price for a PC, or a workstation for that matter -B > especially when you consider what you are getting at that price. > K > At that price the zx2000 doesn't even include an OS (it's the Linux-ready I > version, but it doesn't actually come with Linux). If you want one with I > an OS installed, it will be at least $3,910 for the basic HP-UX system. E > That is with the somewhat modest ATI Radeon 7000 graphics card (the D > current top of the line ATI PC, rather than workstation, card, theE > 9600 Pro, is around 10 times as fast), and it also only has AGP 4x, F > but 8x is now standard on PCs (not even looking at workstations). It@ > also has a 40GB EIDE hard drive (no SCSI at this price point). > E > Athlon64 based PCs should come in at, and possibly under, half this B > "no OS" price in a useable configuration. The Athlon64 system atE > half the price will probably be noticably faster than a zx2000 too,fG > as that only has a 900MHz Itanium 2 with 1.5MB on-chip cache, not the D > new fast versions - not to mention that it only has DDR266 memory.G > I expect you'll be able to use DDR400 with about any Althlon64 systemtG > on they day they come out, many (if not all) with dual channel DDR400eH > memory to match that 6.4GB/sec the zx2000 claims - what is that, threeI > DDR266 modules wide? DDR266 is only a little over 2.1GB/sec so it would E > have to be unless it is 4 wide but rated on the CPU's communicationeJ > rate rather than the memory. (Realistically though, the new dual channelG > chipsets on PCs rarely seem to add much more than 50% to their memorya > throughput.) >aJ > Of course a new low-end Itanium system with the newer faster versions ofH > the processor and other updates to todays standard component specs mayE > well be out before the Athlon64 systems, but how much will it cost?MF > If it is over $2000 in a decent configuration (like including an OS,H > at least) it is well over what an Athlon64 system is likely to run you! > in a rather nice configuration.  >p
 > --- Carl   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 20:14:27 GMT 9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>n4 Subject: Re: HP World: Why Alpha's Omega Makes Sense/ Message-ID: <DmiRa.190$7H2.78@news.cpqcorp.net>   E That's crap.  IIRC "Stripped" it's a little over $5k.  With a typicaleJ configuration, it's about $12k.  To get to $60k you have to be hanging all8 the memory, and all the I/O you can possibly hang on it.    H "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:Y7oOfXGHK0Pr@eisner.encompasserve.org...iH > In article <15JUL200321114996@gerg.tamu.edu>, carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) writes:> > > In article <vh868q78ftpbcd@corp.supernews.com>, Greg Cagle <gregc@gregcagle.com> writes...c- > > }Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:e > > }c> > > }> AMD will also be able to build 64bit desktops something> > > }> that you cannot do economically or easily with Itanium. > > }l3 > > }http://www.hp.com/workstations/itanium/zx2000/u > > }  > > }Web price $3298.t > > }w > > }--M > > }Greg Cagle  > >oJ > > Which is not a good price for a PC, or a workstation for that matter -D > > especially when you consider what you are getting at that price. > >- >-< >    The rx2600 which I think is the cheapest thing actuallyF >    supported for VMS I64 8.0 runs almost $60K US, stripped (via HP's& >    web page when accessed as guest). >  >    That's just plain sad.6 >i   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 16:20:46 -0400 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>4 Subject: Re: HP World: Why Alpha's Omega Makes Sense2 Message-ID: <x7KdnYya0vY2LoiiXTWJhw@metrocast.net>  D "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> wrote in message) news:DmiRa.190$7H2.78@news.cpqcorp.net...c > That's crap.  H You really should be a bit less didactic when making a fool of yourself, Fred.r  : >  IIRC "Stripped" it's a little over $5k.  With a typical! > configuration, it's about $12k.r  B No, it's not.  I suspect that you may be thinking of the zx-seriesG workstation prices rather than the rx-series server prices that Bob waseF referring to (though I can't vouch for his contention that they're theK cheapest platforms on which VMS will be supported).  While I'm not going toiI bother checking (the HP Web site was a pain in the ass to get prices fromtI last time I tried), my recollection is that server prices began somewherey North of $20K, stripped.   - bill  +   To get to $60k you have to be hanging all/: > the memory, and all the I/O you can possibly hang on it. >. >/J > "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in message/ > news:Y7oOfXGHK0Pr@eisner.encompasserve.org...aJ > > In article <15JUL200321114996@gerg.tamu.edu>, carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl > Perkins) writes:@ > > > In article <vh868q78ftpbcd@corp.supernews.com>, Greg Cagle! > <gregc@gregcagle.com> writes...y/ > > > }Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:  > > > }v@ > > > }> AMD will also be able to build 64bit desktops something@ > > > }> that you cannot do economically or easily with Itanium. > > > }a5 > > > }http://www.hp.com/workstations/itanium/zx2000/i > > > }n > > > }Web price $3298.  > > > }e	 > > > }--  > > > }Greg Caglep > > >cL > > > Which is not a good price for a PC, or a workstation for that matter -F > > > especially when you consider what you are getting at that price. > > >u > >i> > >    The rx2600 which I think is the cheapest thing actuallyH > >    supported for VMS I64 8.0 runs almost $60K US, stripped (via HP's( > >    web page when accessed as guest). > >i > >    That's just plain sad.0 > >u >t >o   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 13:59:33 -0400 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>Y Subject: Re: Intel's had Dirty Bombs Anthrax and everything! (Was: Re: HP World: Why Alpht2 Message-ID: <-UKdnTIaq7QMD4iiXTWJiA@metrocast.net>  3 "jlsue" <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net> wrote in messaget2 news:bta8hvckul9tkf2nkt0m639n22o7nstvgq@4ax.com...   ...K  B > >> Whatever people have to do to pay the rent is their business. > >rJ > >Not when they break very specific commitments to others in the process, itJ > >isn't.  And not when they lie in attempts to avoid being called to task fort > >such treachery. >hL > Look, as a customer you have no real claim to find out why any deeper thanK > what they're willing to tell you.  It's their business to run as they seeoL > fit.  Once they tell you, you have the option to accept the explanation orJ > reject it, but in the end you'll have to carry on in some way (includingE > completely leaving that vendor behind if that is your desire).  Butu@ > discussing it for years afterward is really a waste of effort.  H Hmmm.  Based on the continuing interest in discussing it here by a greatJ many more people than myself, I'd say that they didn't feel it was a waste any more than I do.u  J As for myself, I feel that if I can make even just a few additional peopleI aware of why cHumPaq can't be trusted, and by so doing not only keep them D from potentially getting screwed but cost cHumPaq some profit in theJ bargain, than it's time well spent.  And I'll keep feeling that way eitherI until cHumPaq apologizes and makes some *substantial* effort to atone foriK their actions in 2001 or until there are no significant players left in theN4 corporation who were associated with that treachery.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 03:54:35 +0800s, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>I Subject: Re: More than VMS is required, but VMS is a great starting pointe- Message-ID: <87y8yyz1qc.fsf@prep.synonet.com>r  < "David McKenzie" <david.mckenzie@paradigm-shift.biz> writes:  E > One should also be aware of the High Court decison in Australia Dow C > Jones & Company Inc v Gutnick 194 ALR 433 where it was ruled thatpA > Victorian (Australia) jurisdiction applied because that was thetC > place of download for an article that was written in New York andhB > loaded onto a server in New Jersey. Dow Jows will have to complyF > with the High Court ruling because thaey have assetts in Victoria.ItC > sholud be noted that there is an open question as to whether that F > also applies to the precess of discovery of information that is on aC > network accessable from the place where jurisdiction is asserted,c3 > see recent rulings on Mcabe v BAT a tobacco case.E  E That is not a good precedent for general applicablility. It was abouttF where the case should be heard, and the final descision was only about the hearing.   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 15:18:27 -0500y0 From: Mike Hutcheson <Mike_Hutcheson@baylor.edu>: Subject: Need help configuring DCPS queue with MSAP$DEVCTL, Message-ID: <bf4buj$hk02$1@itc01.baylor.edu>  C Hi.  We've used Pathworks for OpenVMS (Macintosh) for printing for nG several years.  We've all but done away with Appletalk on our network,  G however, so we'll be printing over tcp/ip.  I would like to be able to  D continue using the forms and setup modules that Pathworks provides. I  From what I've read in the archives, we should be able to use DCPS with kE the MSAP$DEVCTL library.  However, when I print to a DCPS queue that hE I've set up, it doesn't appear that the MSAP form or setup module is hI being applied.  No error messages (that I can find, anyway) are reported I by DCPS.  E For example, we have a Pathworks form called LPT_PLAIN that uses the -H lpt_prolog found in MSAP$DEVCTL.  If things were working properly, when G we would print a text file, it would come out landscape with up to 132  F columns on the page with a very tiny font.  Instead, we get a generic ) 80-column print out that's not landscape.p   Here's what we're running:  	 DCPS V2.2f% Pathworks for OpenVMS (Macintosh 1.3)s* OpenVMS 7.3 on two-node cluster of Alpha's Multinet 4.3 HP LaserJet 4100TN   This is the queue description:   $ sho que/full dcps_testF Printer queue DCPS_TEST, idle, on NODE1::DCPS$, mounted form LPT_PLAIN   (stock=PLAIN_PAPER)IC    /BASE_PRIORITY=4 /DEFAULT=(FEED,FORM=LTR_12 (stock=PLAIN_PAPER))b@    /NOENABLE_GENERIC /LIBRARY=DCPS_LIB Lowercase /OWNER=[SYSTEM]G    /PROCESSOR=DCPS$SMB /PROTECTION=(S:M,O:D,G:R,W:S) /SCHEDULE=(NOSIZE)   7 Below is how I defined the printer in dcps$startup.com:o  > $ if .not. setup_mode then @sys$startup:dcps$execution_queue -          dcps_test -*          "IP_RawTCP/hp-1.bylor.edu:9100" -          dcps_lib -P
          "" -eG          "/DEFAULT=(FEED,FORM=LTR_12)/FORM_MOUNTED=LTR_12/NOSEPARATE" - 
          "" -l
          "" -           ""l- These are the DCPS logicals that are defined:  (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)  A    "DCPS$DCPS_TEST_DEVICE_NAME" = "IP_RawTCP/hp-1.bylor.edu:9100"a$    "DCPS$DCPS_TEST_PID" = "20600496"    "DCPS$DEVCTL_CACHE" = "1"5    "DCPS$LAYUP" = "SYS$COMMON:[SYSHLP.EXAMPLES.DCPS]"i    "DCPS$MAX_STREAMS" = "4"i    "DCPS$VERSION" = "V2.2"    "DCPS_LIB" = "DCPS$DEVCTL" "          = "MSAP$DEVCTL/DATA=POST"  H Note that I've tried defining DCPS_LIB without the "/DATA=POST" as well  and get the same results.   G Any suggestions as to what I need to do to get the MSAP set up modules  I and forms to take effect?  What are some good techniques to troubleshoot w
 this problem?t   Thanks very much for the help,  * Mike Hutcheson (Mike_Hutcheson@baylor.edu) Systems Manager (254) 710-4110& Baylor University - Electronic Library   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 20:01:54 -0500e1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>D$ Subject: Re: OpenVMS  NCP quiestion?' Message-ID: <3F15F582.F3EF8AB3@fsi.net>l   > "Wolf, Gerald J" wrote:n >  > All, > F > It is good to be back working on OpenVMS systems again.  I have beenE > working on other O/S platforms for about four years. You can reallyy > get rusty fast.l >  > I have an NCP question > F > I have one system that can not "set host" to other systems and other > systems to this one. > E > Here are some show dumps to look at.  I can not get the unreachable: > nodes to a reachable status. > # > Can anyone help me please? [snip]y  . Looks like you have some good answers already.   Just to repeat:T  " 1. Are your lines/circuits active?   NCP> show known line NCP> show known circuite  E 2. Your node is non-routing, but your database lists nodes in anotherDF area. Do you have adjacency with your "nearest" routing node? That is,( is the LAN still passing DECnet traffic?   --   David J. DachteraN dba DJE Systemsv http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 20:29:40 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> T Subject: Re: OpenVMS Pearl - OpenVMS V8.0, first release on Itanium, ships  today!!!I Message-ID: <UAiRa.88261$sI91.10494@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>N  9 "Paul Repacholi" <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote in message ' news:87u19m1kab.fsf@prep.synonet.com...o' > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:i >hE > > HP should offer a Christmas gift-wrapped version guaranteed to beoA > > couriered to your home by Dec. 24th, complete with gift-card.d > 6 > Where and when did that add run? I can't remember :(    : HP doesn't advertise anything VMS. Ask Mary Ellen Fortier.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 00:57:48 +0800c, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>Y Subject: Re: OpenVMS Pearl - OpenVMS V8.0, first release on Itanium, ships today!!! todaya- Message-ID: <87u19m1kab.fsf@prep.synonet.com>a  % "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:.  C > HP should offer a Christmas gift-wrapped version guaranteed to be ? > couriered to your home by Dec. 24th, complete with gift-card.   4 Where and when did that add run? I can't remember :(   -- i< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.O@                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 01:24:00 +0800R, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>8 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Technical Seminar Highlights (some)- Message-ID: <87ptka1j2n.fsf@prep.synonet.com>%  3 susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski) writes:G    ? > This is Sue Skonetski, I asked the RDB question.  Yes you arehF > reading to much into it.  I love RDB which is why I asked.  Sorry no
 > major news.>  6 > "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> wrote in message7 > news:<IzbPa.9276$Ag6.586661@news20.bellglobal.com>...f  B >> While re-reading my seminar notes from the DECUS Canada OpenVMSE >> Technical Seminar, I remembered something a little odd: at various C >> times they would ask for a show of hands for questions like "whoNF >> uses CSWS?", "who is still using VAX-only clusters?", "who backs upD >> their systems with $BACKUP" etc. The odd bit came when they askedF >> "Who uses RDB?" and more that 2/3 (almost 3/4) of the people raised? >> their hands but the HP people didn't seem surprised and justo
 >> nodded.  D There was a Road show here a few years ago, and the presenter had toD do an instant change from `orible to RDB when he discovered he had aF rooms of RDB users, and the ONE `orible user wanted to know more about
 RDB anyway...e   -- c< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.n@                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 23:04:05 GMT-4 From: "Phillip R Sobottke" <psobottke@ameritech.net> Subject: openvms-alpha license@ Message-ID: <FRkRa.10793$Vx2.4719644@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com>  J I found out that my digital ultimate workstation requires 75 units for theL base license.  I have a new 15 unit base license, is there any way to reduceG the requirement for this machine.  I have no intention of using it as a  server.l   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jul 2003 12:40:08 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 3 Subject: Re: OT: HP's PeeCee customer statisfaction 3 Message-ID: <xwGfWjPKx5oM@eisner.encompasserve.org>   U In article <00A22F22.085FE25A@SendSpamHere.ORG>,   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:rf > In article <bf3ig9$aorh9$2@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:2 >>In article <00A22EF3.75804E59@sendspamhere.org>,% >>	VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:s >>> J >>> What I don't like about the PeeCees I've had the misfortune to have toI >>> use is that the mouse is curved like a banana to fit the right hand. oJ >>> It's rather uncomfortable and awkward to manipulate these devices with >>> the left hand.   >>D >>You must buy the wrong mice.  Mine are all symetrical.  I have twoG >>systems on my desk here at work One on the right and one on the left. D >>I use one mouse with my right hand and the other with my left.  NoD >>problems at all.  Of course, none of mine have mouse balls either.8 >>That was a technology I was very glad to see replaced. > E > I don't buy anything PeeCee.  This is what I get when I contract tojE > go on-site and tell them that I expect a VT terminal or workstationiF > to access their VMS machines.  Thank goodness that I used to do muchG > editting on LA-xxx consoles of old 11/780s so my EDT line mode skillsa > are quite polished.h  M But with TECO, one does not need a separate command set for non-VT terminals.    ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 18:01:16 -0400 (EDT) + From: Lord Isildur <isildur@andrew.cmu.edu> 3 Subject: Re: OT: HP's PeeCee customer statisfactioniH Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.55L-032.0307161800370.6226@unix1.andrew.cmu.edu>  I the hockey puck mice are serial, and the protocol is documented, so therei< is no good reason why one _cant_ use them on newer machines.   Isilduri  % On Wed, 16 Jul 2003, Bart Zorn wrote:g >8I > Indeed, but unfortunately, those mice do not work on newer Alpha's withr > a PS2 mouse interface. >l > Bart Zornd >t >C   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 23:33:28 +01003) From: Antonio Carlini <arcarlini@iee.org>oJ Subject: Re: PCSI producer and VMS facility name for Freeware/GPL Software? Message-ID: <VokRa.12987$nP.4683@newsfep4-winn.server.ntli.net>a   Larry Kilgallen wrote:  @ > Has anybody proposed a resolution of the dichotomy between the? > nature of nonproprietary software and the namespace divisionsa > provided by VMS and PCSI ?  @ There used to be a registrar within DEC to manage the namespace,7 but that function may have expired even before DEC did.=  7 If such a function can be tracked down, maybe GNU couldr8 be persuaded to register GNU$ and then the problem would/ be solved (at least for a fair chunk of stuff).    Antonioo   --   ---------------T- Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.org)   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jul 2003 19:16:18 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)fJ Subject: Re: PCSI producer and VMS facility name for Freeware/GPL Software3 Message-ID: <YJmrsLyADXhE@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  k In article <VokRa.12987$nP.4683@newsfep4-winn.server.ntli.net>, Antonio Carlini <arcarlini@iee.org> writes:t > Larry Kilgallen wrote: > A >> Has anybody proposed a resolution of the dichotomy between the @ >> nature of nonproprietary software and the namespace divisions >> provided by VMS and PCSI ?  > B > There used to be a registrar within DEC to manage the namespace,9 > but that function may have expired even before DEC did.   8 I believe the registrar still exists, but is outsourced.  9 > If such a function can be tracked down, maybe GNU could-: > be persuaded to register GNU$ and then the problem would1 > be solved (at least for a fair chunk of stuff).c  @ It would not, because I do not believe FSF runs registration for= projects licensed under the GPL.  Thus the namespace would be 
 uncontrolled.o   ------------------------------   Date: 16 Jul 2003 19:01:51 GMT/ From: Thomas Dickey <dickey@saltmine.radix.net>c$ Subject: Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates* Message-ID: <bf47ev$b6b$1@news1.radix.net>  3 In comp.os.vms sol gongola <sol@adldata.com> wrote:s > Thomas Dickey wrote: >> C> >> In comp.os.vms Kelvin Smith <fcs_smith1111@snet.net> wrote:Q >> > Well, at least one reason for the short variable names was so there would be L >> > no confusion between variable names and keywords, an ambiguity that hasO >> > tripped up more than one programmer since variable names got longer. TherelP >> > would also have been space considerations; it's easy to forget now just howQ >> > frightfully expensive RAM was back then ($1 or more per byte, IIRC). Most ofp >> r- >> iirc, it was "core" back then (late 60's). 8 >> "RAM" wasn't a commonly-used term til the early 70's.  R > All the RAM was core memory. There was also ROM. I remember getting a blank ROM   I "perhaps".  I didn't encounter the term applied to core memory before thetG advent of semiconductor memory.  Checking my PDP-11 processor handbookseJ reinforces my recollection - the term "RAM" is not used in the older ones.   -- s= Thomas E. Dickey <dickey@radix.net> <dickey@herndon4.his.com>  http://dickey.his.com  ftp://dickey.his.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 14:58:48 -0600e% From: Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com>e$ Subject: Re: PDP-11 OS Release DatesA Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20030716145643.00bb7618@raptor.psccos.com>r  + At 01:01 PM 7/16/2003, Thomas Dickey wrote: 4 >In comp.os.vms sol gongola <sol@adldata.com> wrote: > > Thomas Dickey wrote: > >>@ > >> In comp.os.vms Kelvin Smith <fcs_smith1111@snet.net> wrote:K > >> > Well, at least one reason for the short variable names was so there e
 > would beN > >> > no confusion between variable names and keywords, an ambiguity that hasL > >> > tripped up more than one programmer since variable names got longer.  > TherenJ > >> > would also have been space considerations; it's easy to forget now 
 > just howL > >> > frightfully expensive RAM was back then ($1 or more per byte, IIRC). 	 > Most ofi > >>/ > >> iirc, it was "core" back then (late 60's). : > >> "RAM" wasn't a commonly-used term til the early 70's. >)J > > All the RAM was core memory. There was also ROM. I remember getting a  > blank ROMp >fJ >"perhaps".  I didn't encounter the term applied to core memory before theH >advent of semiconductor memory.  Checking my PDP-11 processor handbooksK >reinforces my recollection - the term "RAM" is not used in the older ones.n  I Well, at one time, you could also have more than one type of memory.  YouE could have fast (expensive, hot) bipolar memory and more conventionaleJ memory.   On RSX, at least, there was a PSECT attribute to allow the psect* to be loaded into fast or slow(er) memory.   ------J +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+J | Dan O'Reilly                  |  "There are 10 types of people in this |J | Principal Engineer            |   world: those who understand binary   |J | Process Software              |   and those who don't."                |J | http://www.process.com        |                                        |J +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+   ------------------------------   Date: 16 Jul 2003 22:50:06 GMT/ From: Thomas Dickey <dickey@saltmine.radix.net>)$ Subject: Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates* Message-ID: <bf4kqu$n88$1@news1.radix.net>  & Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com> wrote:- > At 01:01 PM 7/16/2003, Thomas Dickey wrote:(5 >>In comp.os.vms sol gongola <sol@adldata.com> wrote:3 >> > Thomas Dickey wrote:  >> >> A >> >> In comp.os.vms Kelvin Smith <fcs_smith1111@snet.net> wrote:eL >> >> > Well, at least one reason for the short variable names was so there  >> would be)O >> >> > no confusion between variable names and keywords, an ambiguity that hasrM >> >> > tripped up more than one programmer since variable names got longer. ( >> ThereK >> >> > would also have been space considerations; it's easy to forget now 0 >> just how M >> >> > frightfully expensive RAM was back then ($1 or more per byte, IIRC). .
 >> Most of >> >> 0 >> >> iirc, it was "core" back then (late 60's).; >> >> "RAM" wasn't a commonly-used term til the early 70's.  >>K >> > All the RAM was core memory. There was also ROM. I remember getting a l >> blank ROM >>K >>"perhaps".  I didn't encounter the term applied to core memory before the8I >>advent of semiconductor memory.  Checking my PDP-11 processor handbookseL >>reinforces my recollection - the term "RAM" is not used in the older ones.  K > Well, at one time, you could also have more than one type of memory.  YounG > could have fast (expensive, hot) bipolar memory and more conventional:L > memory.   On RSX, at least, there was a PSECT attribute to allow the psect, > to be loaded into fast or slow(er) memory.  H That's still much later (approaching 10 years) than the design of BASIC.E According to what I'm reading, BASIC was designed around 1964 (my own0G recollection was that it was a little later, e.g., 1967, but that mightyF be tainted with some recollection about where it was adopted for use).  O ("bipolar" probably refers in this context to an SSI or MSI technology, perhapsiA not what I would have meant by semiconductor, e.g., LSI or VLSI).o   --  = Thomas E. Dickey <dickey@radix.net> <dickey@herndon4.his.com>l http://dickey.his.com  ftp://dickey.his.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 22:55:15 -0400e) From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" <DAGwyn@null.net>a$ Subject: Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates0 Message-ID: <saOdnVhUoNGSjYuiXTWJgA@comcast.com>   sol gongola wrote: > Thomas Dickey wrote:7 >>"RAM" wasn't a commonly-used term til the early 70's.0 > All the RAM was core memory.  2 Early use of the term "Random Access Memory" often6 pertained to disk, drum, or other storage.  There were5 even computers whose only storage medium was magneticw2 drum (no core and certainly no transistor arrays).  " > BTW, did anyone mention dectape?  1 DECtape is considered random access as opposed tos8 sequential access, even though it takes a while to seek.  4 Note that currently on eBay is a restored PDP-8 with DECtape.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 21:24:04 -0600e% From: Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com> $ Subject: Re: PDP-11 OS Release DatesA Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20030716212316.00b6fe30@raptor.psccos.com>t  - At 08:55 PM 7/16/2003, Douglas A. Gwyn wrote:s >sol gongola wrote:t >>Thomas Dickey wrote:8 >>>"RAM" wasn't a commonly-used term til the early 70's. >>All the RAM was core memory. >r3 >Early use of the term "Random Access Memory" often 7 >pertained to disk, drum, or other storage.  There were16 >even computers whose only storage medium was magnetic3 >drum (no core and certainly no transistor arrays).p  C Yep - used to work on a Xerox Sigma system that had drum storage...a   ------J +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+J | Dan O'Reilly                  |  "There are 10 types of people in this |J | Principal Engineer            |   world: those who understand binary   |J | Process Software              |   and those who don't."                |J | http://www.process.com        |                                        |J +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 01:34:58 +0800n, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>. Subject: Re: PDP-11 OS/Layered Cross Reference- Message-ID: <87lluy1ikd.fsf@prep.synonet.com>y  ' Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com> writes:d  + > RSX-11M+ V1.0 came out, I think, in 1980..  D M-PLUS was before that I think, 79 at latest. I can't remember if it; was 78, or if that was TRAX with M-PLUS still in the wings.-  G BTW, M-PLUS v1 and v2 are almost different systems. v1 should have been- called TRAX-MINUS :)   -- 1< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.3@                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 15:22:31 -0600(% From: Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com> . Subject: Re: PDP-11 OS/Layered Cross ReferenceA Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20030716152134.00b3d8e0@raptor.psccos.com>O  , At 11:34 AM 7/16/2003, Paul Repacholi wrote:( >Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com> writes: >r- > > RSX-11M+ V1.0 came out, I think, in 1980.s > E >M-PLUS was before that I think, 79 at latest. I can't remember if it < >was 78, or if that was TRAX with M-PLUS still in the wings.  ( No, it was mid-1980, I'm almost certain.  H >BTW, M-PLUS v1 and v2 are almost different systems. v1 should have been >called TRAX-MINUS :)'  G Yup.  Never played with TRAX much, but you're right about M+ V1 and V2.-   ------J +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+J | Dan O'Reilly                  |  "There are 10 types of people in this |J | Principal Engineer            |   world: those who understand binary   |J | Process Software              |   and those who don't."                |J | http://www.process.com        |                                        |J +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 21:29:37 -0400 + From: Ken Robinson <kenrbnsn1@patmedia.net>e. Subject: Re: PDP-11 OS/Layered Cross ReferenceA Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20030716212359.03be2148@mail.patmedia.net>a  ' At 03:22 PM 7/16/2003 -0600, you wrote:e  - >At 11:34 AM 7/16/2003, Paul Repacholi wrote: ) >>Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com> writes:  >>. >> > RSX-11M+ V1.0 came out, I think, in 1980. >>F >>M-PLUS was before that I think, 79 at latest. I can't remember if it= >>was 78, or if that was TRAX with M-PLUS still in the wings.K >m) >No, it was mid-1980, I'm almost certain.   I I'm pretty sure it came out before 1980. The company where I was working ,D started using IAS on a pdp11/70 in 1977 and we converted to RSX11M+ J sometime in the 1978/79 time frame. We get a VAX 11/780 in house (but not K used) late in 1979 and we were already using M+ at that time (and had been nK for about a year). I was promoted to System Manager in January of 1980 and eI was sent to VMS school for two weeks. From 1980 to 1984 when I left that f< company, we were running M+ on the PDP11 and VMS on the VAX.  
 Ken Robinson     ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 19:52:26 -0400 . From: Mike Bartman <omni@foolie.omniphile.com> Subject: Re: Pony Expresso8 Message-ID: <8lobhvgqscfqbbucuc9cmd3mqrmigpca44@4ax.com>  5 On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 20:31:08 -0400, "Andrew Butchart" ( <andrewb@abutchartconsulting.com> wrote:  L >I'm trying to find out some information on an older VMS mail product calledM >Pony Express.  As far as I can tell, it was distributed in the early 90's byc >the Wollongong Group.  @ Yes, that's true.  The Wollongong Group was bought by AttachmateA Corporation around '97.  Attachmate decided to get out of the VMSoC business a couple of years later, and as far as I know, the PathWayoE for OpenVMS product (which included Pony Express) went away.  I don't C know for sure what happened after all of us PathWay developers were : laid off in '99, but that's what was going on at the time.  I >I'm looking for some documentation on whether there is an interface thatnI >will allow me to programmatically create outbound mail including encodedS >report files with it.  E Not that I know of.  You can always create a process and feed it mail>@ commands.  That's what I did in a TPU-based news reader I helpedF write.  Here's the bit of code that does the send if it helps any (the2 message to be sent is in NEWS$DIR:NEWSREAD.REPLY):    <         Recipaddr := read_line("Recipient's address: ", 80);/ 	MailAddr  := "PONY%""""" + Recipaddr + """""";t                 !         write_file(reply_buffer);e  8 	mailer_process := create_process(mailer_buffer, "$ SHOW TIME");c  / 	send("$ mail/subject=""" + str(Subjtext) + """n? NEWS$DIR:NEWSREAD.REPLY """ + MailAddr + """", mailer_process);t  2 	message("$ mail/subject=""" + str(Subjtext) + """/ NEWS$DIR:NEWSREAD.REPLY """ + MailAddr + """");   ; 	send("$ delete/nolog/noconfirm NEWS$DIR:NEWSREAD.REPLY;*",n mailer_process);   	send_eof(mailer_process);    @ Sorry about the wrapping.  If you or anyone else wants the wholeE newsreader package, I can get it to them.  It's still set up for Pony F Express as far as mail goes, since I haven't been using it lately, but. it works pretty well if you like a bare-bones,B guts-hanging-out-where-you-can-play-with-them sort of news reader.C I've added features to it while reading mail, and without having tohF exit the program...try that in C! :^)  Needless to say, this isn't theE sort of utility you want to hand to just anyone, but technically savyi folks seem to like it.   -- Mike Bartmana<    ex-Wollongong programmer, currently Process Software, LLC
 programmer@ ----------------------------------------------------------------=   To reply via e-mail, remove the 'foolie.' from the address. %   I'm getting sick of all the SPAM...e@ ----------------------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jul 2003 11:34:19 -0700) From: Jennifer.Landberg@aksteel.com (Jen)rC Subject: Re: Showing what processes are attached to a specific filem= Message-ID: <24189c60.0307161034.337ac7b4@posting.google.com>p  C Thanks a lot.  This worked out.  I just searched for the file I wasAA looking for in the report and now I can find all of the processes 	 using it.   
 Thanks again,k Jenl    d Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com> wrote in message news:<vhalou1virohc1@corp.supernews.com>... > Jen wrote:F > > We have a global common set up and we would like to be able to seeH > > what processes are attached to it.  When I do a show dev/file on theI > > disk that the file in question is on, it does not show up in the listD@ > > of files being used.  I know that it is always being used byJ > > something.  Is there another way I can see what processes are attached > > to the file? >  > $ anal/sys > SDA> set output x.x  > SDA> show proc/channel all > SDA> exit  > . > $ search x.x "Name: ",globalsection.filename >  > Roy Omonds > Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 20:42:19 -0500.1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> 5 Subject: Re: simple questions on generic batch queuesC' Message-ID: <3F15FEFB.2EC14B89@fsi.net>   / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:c > D > I want to set up some fancier batch queues on my hobbyist cluster. > J > Can I have generic queue A pointing to, say, specific queues 1, 2, and 37 > and generic queue B pointing to just, say, 2 and 3?  i  E The "magic" you're looking for is the /GENERIC qualifier of INIT/QUE.g  F F$GETQUI("DISPLAY_QUEUE","GENERIC_TARGET",queue_name,) will return theH list of target queues. The execution queues should be /NOENABLE_GENERIC,D which should be the default. That way, the execution queues only getE jobs from the specific generic queue rather than any generic queue ofa' the same type, or directly from SUBMIT.p  5 I use this in my backup procedures for many things...    --   David J. Dachtera0 dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/K   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 18:49:04 -0400o/ From: Fred The Cat <fredthecat@i-love-cats.com>2 Subject: T4 utility.8 Message-ID: <u3kbhvsgolmjf4jtk679m8ob8aftgknvm3@4ax.com>   Greetings all.  O I recently learned about HP's T4 utility ("Tabular Timeline Tracking Tool") forpO OpenVMS, and would like to draw on your knowledge & experience a bit if you are  familiar with it.z  L If I understand correctly, it captures a lot of information from the Monitor' utility, including individual disk I/O.rO However, the CSV files that I receive from it each day don't seem to drill downe to that level of detail.  M For a current project, I'm trying to capture average, peak and low values fora5 both read and write activity on all my mounted disks. H ( Currently everything is set up on the storage array as RAID 5, and I'mL convinced it's time to use RAID 0+1 for those disks heavy on write activity.D However, I have to gather some numbers to show this is a good idea.)  N Am I mistaken in what information this tool can provide? If not, what needs toN be done to get the individual disk I/O information to be included in the daily	 CSV file?      ___________________b   Regards,
 Jay Newman Systems Programmer The Pepsi Bottling Group Mississauga, Ontario, Canada   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jul 2003 12:35:47 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)m> Subject: Re: What color were the VMS manuals for old versions?3 Message-ID: <xbGCiOY5BsdG@eisner.encompasserve.org>b  b In article <3F1553C5.9EA98D46@vcu.edu>, Jim Agnew - VCU/MCV Neurosurgery <jpagnew@vcu.edu> writes:G > and anyone remember KED keypad editor under RSX?  it came in with thedG > FMS package, and got more use!!!  we later ran it under VMS in compath > mode since it had macros..  H    Tried KED, wishing I had EDT.  The next update we got to RSX included    EDT, so I dropped KED.    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jul 2003 12:42:15 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) > Subject: Re: What color were the VMS manuals for old versions?3 Message-ID: <zXM0vcUurPgC@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  b In article <3f15611a$0$49110$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>, Bart Zorn <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl> writes: > J > In those pre-EDT days I used TECO in full screen mode. That was nice on I > a CIT-500 terminal (64 lines by 80 characters)! However, it was not so  ) > nice for the other users of the PDP-11.b  C    I tried TV (a full screen TECO) on our DECSYSTEM-20, but fell in C    with everyone else using Columbia's SED until DEC shipped EDT int    TOPS-20.a  D    EDT in TOPS-20 was the last expansion of EDT as the "standard DECC    editor", coming after RSX.  Next thing I knew they were shippingi    Ultirx without it.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 13:58:58 -0400 8 From: Jim Agnew - VCU/MCV Neurosurgery <jpagnew@vcu.edu>> Subject: Re: What color were the VMS manuals for old versions?' Message-ID: <3F159262.4E6F6735@vcu.edu>g   Bob Koehler wrote: > d > In article <3F1553C5.9EA98D46@vcu.edu>, Jim Agnew - VCU/MCV Neurosurgery <jpagnew@vcu.edu> writes:I > > and anyone remember KED keypad editor under RSX?  it came in with theeI > > FMS package, and got more use!!!  we later ran it under VMS in compatt > > mode since it had macros.. > J >    Tried KED, wishing I had EDT.  The next update we got to RSX included >    EDT, so I dropped KED.s   did it break???   ;-pt     -- iF "4,000 years ago I made a mistake."  Elrond Half-Elven, in "Fellowship of the Ring"  F "I try not to be right any more than necessary". -- Larry Wall, author of the Perl Language   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 16:36:16 -0400i< From: "Carlc Internet Services" <cc@nospamming-to-carlc.com>> Subject: Re: What color were the VMS manuals for old versions?1 Message-ID: <5HiRa.380$lf1.82428@news.uswest.net>S  H "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:CpHuF+X5ZSOV@eisner.encompasserve.org.... > >z@ >    DSC2 or standalone DSC2 did the equivalent of backup/image.B >    I knew a shop that did a lot of work under VMS 1 to make sure? >    they were getting complete backups using BCK so they could E >    RST individual files.  (Or was that BRU?  No I think BRU came toa >    RSX later).    D On VMS, we were backing up RP06s. The system's manager handed me theF book(s) for V1.1 VMS and said," Here, you figure it out". Since I used DSC/PREoF on RSX, DSC2 was a natural. It wasn't until V2 that we could switch to	 "backup".o  K BRU (Backup/Restore Utility) came out in the RSX V4 time frame, as far as Ie caneB remember. Until then, I used DSC or PRE depending on fragmentation
 requirements.AF PRE (under RSX and IAS [anyone remember that one???? on a PDP-11/70 noJ less]) would just do a block for block... I guess you would say PRE = "dd" in UNIX.- DSC took way longer and required many tricks.   I To backup the RSX system disk, I can remember booting the system. Locking E MCR into memory, locking BRU into memory, THEN you could dismount thesJ system pack to backup other packs. Can't think of two many OSes that allowF you to remove the booted disk from the drive to allow you to reuse the drive.  F Ah.. The good ol days... We lived in a hole in the ground and we liked it....H It was uphill both ways to the tape vault... And we liked it.... <GRIN>. Carl   ====================B http://www.carlc.com/    <== Need OpenVMS Webhosting... We got it!  =       "Price, Performance, Quality. Choose any two you like."i   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 15:02:30 -0600w% From: Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com>v> Subject: Re: What color were the VMS manuals for old versions?A Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20030716145917.00b4d008@raptor.psccos.com>d  5 At 02:36 PM 7/16/2003, Carlc Internet Services wrote:h  I >"Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in messaget. >news:CpHuF+X5ZSOV@eisner.encompasserve.org... > > >lB > >    DSC2 or standalone DSC2 did the equivalent of backup/image.D > >    I knew a shop that did a lot of work under VMS 1 to make sureA > >    they were getting complete backups using BCK so they couldtG > >    RST individual files.  (Or was that BRU?  No I think BRU came toc > >    RSX later). >u >oE >On VMS, we were backing up RP06s. The system's manager handed me theeG >book(s) for V1.1 VMS and said," Here, you figure it out". Since I usedu >DSC/PREG >on RSX, DSC2 was a natural. It wasn't until V2 that we could switch tod
 >"backup". >pL >BRU (Backup/Restore Utility) came out in the RSX V4 time frame, as far as I >canC >remember. Until then, I used DSC or PRE depending on fragmentationn >requirements.G >PRE (under RSX and IAS [anyone remember that one???? on a PDP-11/70 no2K >less]) would just do a block for block... I guess you would say PRE = "dd"E	 >in UNIX. . >DSC took way longer and required many tricks.  F BRU came out in RSX 3.2.  At the time I was working in the CSC (it wasF called the "TSC" at the time) on the RSX team.  To us, "BRU" stood forH "backup and ruin utility", rather than "backup and restore utility".  ItH was REALLY buggy at first.  Most people stayed with DSC at that time for
 a year or so.R  D The big issue with PRESERV was that it WAS block-by-block: including bad ones on the output volume!  J >To backup the RSX system disk, I can remember booting the system. LockingF >MCR into memory, locking BRU into memory, THEN you could dismount theK >system pack to backup other packs. Can't think of two many OSes that allow"G >you to remove the booted disk from the drive to allow you to reuse theP >drive.  > G >Ah.. The good ol days... We lived in a hole in the ground and we likedB >it....tI >It was uphill both ways to the tape vault... And we liked it.... <GRIN>.t  G Yup!  Back when you had to WORK to program, 'cause you only had 64kb ofe memory to work with!  <grin>     ------J +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+J | Dan O'Reilly                  |  "There are 10 types of people in this |J | Principal Engineer            |   world: those who understand binary   |J | Process Software              |   and those who don't."                |J | http://www.process.com        |                                        |J +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 18:03:33 -0400a& From: David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com>> Subject: Re: What color were the VMS manuals for old versions?8 Message-ID: <qribhvohfbvfkrs3mjham7shr82j2r43l4@4ax.com>  = On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 19:13:01 -0400, "Carlc Internet Services"t# <cc@nospamming-to-carlc.com> wrote:a   ... : >AND... VMS Backup was invented in V2... Before that, DSC2> >was it... (Good ol "Disk Save and Compress"). AND... You used@ >"talk" instead of "phone" for IM... Oh yeah, IM was invented on: >VMS <GRIN>... we just didn't know it yet.... and, I'm not9 >sorry to see it go, I remember using TECO to edit files.   N Is that right? I thought VMS Backup came in about V3 for some reason. I recallI being at the DECUS symposium where it debuted, but I can't be sure of thep+ details this late afterwards...getting old!pI --------------------------------------------------------------------------I David M. Smith 302.391.8533                       dsmit115 at csc dot comyI Computer Sciences Corporation     (Opinions are those of the writer only)nI -------------------------------------------------------------------------e   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 14:51:56 -0700e( From: Alan Frisbie <Abuse@NelsonUSA.com>> Subject: Re: What color were the VMS manuals for old versions?, Message-ID: <3F15C8FC.3040900@NelsonUSA.com>   Dan O'Reilly wrote:r  H > BRU came out in RSX 3.2.  At the time I was working in the CSC (it wasH > called the "TSC" at the time) on the RSX team.  To us, "BRU" stood forJ > "backup and ruin utility", rather than "backup and restore utility".  It > was REALLY buggy at first.   At our site:  !      DSC = "Disk Smash & Corrupt"j%      BRU = "Byte Randomizing Utility"f   Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 18:17:11 -0400n< From: "Carlc Internet Services" <cc@nospamming-to-carlc.com>> Subject: Re: What color were the VMS manuals for old versions?1 Message-ID: <I9kRa.579$lf1.97724@news.uswest.net>h  H > BRU came out in RSX 3.2.  At the time I was working in the CSC (it wasH > called the "TSC" at the time) on the RSX team.  To us, "BRU" stood forJ > "backup and ruin utility", rather than "backup and restore utility".  ItJ > was REALLY buggy at first.  Most people stayed with DSC at that time for > a year or so.     $ We (at Racal Milgo) remember BRU as:   Byte Randomization Utility  D I now remember it was in 3.2. I use to do system builds of RSX usingF RM03 packs, doing the pre-install, and then doing the build on the 780I cause it took way shorter time to build the entire system on the 780 withs VMS.  F > The big issue with PRESERV was that it WAS block-by-block: including  > bad ones on the output volume!    J Oh yeah... I remember that... Talk about a guessing game... If you ran BLKK first to check your current volume, those blocks were migrated to the copy.cB We had to run PRE on IAS, as DSC would take hours to move from one2 RP06 to another... And god help you with the RP04.  I > Yup!  Back when you had to WORK to program, 'cause you only had 64kb ofe > memory to work with!  <grin>    B We had RSX-11M. We had a few systems that were RSX-11M+, but thoseC were CAD/CAM systems and the M+ was so modified it barely resembled"F M+. We also had the pdp-11/70 with IAS (RSX with virtual memory), talk about another wierd system."  + Thanks for the reminder of years gone by...a Carl   ==================== http://www.carlc.com/r  =       "Price, Performance, Quality. Choose any two you like."y   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 18:07:40 -0600B% From: Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com>R> Subject: Re: What color were the VMS manuals for old versions?A Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20030716180700.00b2e628@raptor.psccos.com>1  * At 03:51 PM 7/16/2003, Alan Frisbie wrote: >Dan O'Reilly wrote: >nH >>BRU came out in RSX 3.2.  At the time I was working in the CSC (it wasH >>called the "TSC" at the time) on the RSX team.  To us, "BRU" stood forJ >>"backup and ruin utility", rather than "backup and restore utility".  It >>was REALLY buggy at first. >-
 >At our site:  >," >     DSC = "Disk Smash & Corrupt"& >     BRU = "Byte Randomizing Utility"  F Yeah, I remember you - I used to support you!  Took more than one call from you...w   ------J +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+J | Dan O'Reilly                  |  "There are 10 types of people in this |J | Principal Engineer            |   world: those who understand binary   |J | Process Software              |   and those who don't."                |J | http://www.process.com        |                                        |J +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 21:51:00 -0400-( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>> Subject: Re: What color were the VMS manuals for old versions?, Message-ID: <3F160104.1040307@tsoft-inc.com>   Dan O'Reilly wrote:e  7 > At 02:36 PM 7/16/2003, Carlc Internet Services wrote:  > K >> "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in messages0 >> news:CpHuF+X5ZSOV@eisner.encompasserve.org... >> > >C >> >    DSC2 or standalone DSC2 did the equivalent of backup/image. E >> >    I knew a shop that did a lot of work under VMS 1 to make sure B >> >    they were getting complete backups using BCK so they couldH >> >    RST individual files.  (Or was that BRU?  No I think BRU came to >> >    RSX later).w >> >>G >> On VMS, we were backing up RP06s. The system's manager handed me thetI >> book(s) for V1.1 VMS and said," Here, you figure it out". Since I used'
 >> DSC/PREI >> on RSX, DSC2 was a natural. It wasn't until V2 that we could switch toh >> "backup". >>J >> BRU (Backup/Restore Utility) came out in the RSX V4 time frame, as far  >> as Iu >> canE >> remember. Until then, I used DSC or PRE depending on fragmentatione >> requirements.I >> PRE (under RSX and IAS [anyone remember that one???? on a PDP-11/70 nooI >> less]) would just do a block for block... I guess you would say PRE =   >> "dd"1 >> in UNIX.T0 >> DSC took way longer and required many tricks. >  > H > BRU came out in RSX 3.2.  At the time I was working in the CSC (it wasH > called the "TSC" at the time) on the RSX team.  To us, "BRU" stood forJ > "backup and ruin utility", rather than "backup and restore utility".  ItJ > was REALLY buggy at first.  Most people stayed with DSC at that time for > a year or so.  > F > The big issue with PRESERV was that it WAS block-by-block: including  > bad ones on the output volume! > L >> To backup the RSX system disk, I can remember booting the system. LockingH >> MCR into memory, locking BRU into memory, THEN you could dismount theH >> system pack to backup other packs. Can't think of two many OSes that  >> allowI >> you to remove the booted disk from the drive to allow you to reuse then	 >> drive.s >>I >> Ah.. The good ol days... We lived in a hole in the ground and we likedr	 >> it....aK >> It was uphill both ways to the tape vault... And we liked it.... <GRIN>.r >  > I > Yup!  Back when you had to WORK to program, 'cause you only had 64kb ofo > memory to work with!  <grin>    Q Bah!  You were coddled.  On RSTS the Basic+ interpreter ate up 16 KW (32 KB) and o' your code only had 16 KW address space.r  I Each use of a literal used up space, so you'd learn tricks, like setting  M variables N1%, N2%, ... N9% for values of 1-9, and then use the variables in 0O place of literals, because the address of the variable took less room than the S	 literals.a  I I'm rather glad for the opportunity of being rather lazy and sloppy.  :-)n   Dave   -- e4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.391 ************************