1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 17 Jul 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 392       Contents:% Re: 36 x DS10L 617 for only USD20,000  Re: A rant about HP's website. Advanced Server 7.3a Required ! Re: Advanced Server 7.3a Required J anyone have any cheaper solutions for Memory Upgrades for DEC 3000 - M900?P Re: anyone have any cheaper solutions for Memory Upgrades for DEC 3000 - M900? 3 Re: Concerns about buying Alpha P Re: Does anyone remember IAS? (was: Re: What color were the VMS  manuals for oldP Re: Does anyone remember IAS? (was: Re: What color were the VMS manuals for old  Re: DVD compatibility with VMS  Firmware Update using Infoserver? Re: getting rx2600 pricing (was: Why Alpha's Omega Makes Sense)  Re: Good code profilers on VMS?  Re: Good code profilers on VMS?  Re: Granularity hint region + Re: HP World: Why Alpha's Omega Makes Sense + Re: HP World: Why Alpha's Omega Makes Sense + Re: HP World: Why Alpha's Omega Makes Sense K Re: OpenVMS Pearl - OpenVMS V8.0, first release on Itanium, ships  today!!!  Re: openvms-alpha license  Re: openvms-alpha license * Re: OT: HP's PeeCee customer statisfaction Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates  Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates % Re: PDP-11 OS/Layered Cross Reference % Re: PDP-11 OS/Layered Cross Reference  TLBs Re: TLBs Re: TLBs Re: TLBs Re: TLBsL Re: Trying to assemble a MicroVax -- Any help available in the Seattle area?L Re: Trying to assemble a MicroVax -- Any help available in the Seattle area?L Re: Trying to assemble a MicroVax -- Any help available in the Seattle area? What are HP Insiders doing?  Re: What are HP Insiders doing? 5 Re: What color were the VMS manuals for old versions? 5 Re: What color were the VMS manuals for old versions? 5 Re: What color were the VMS manuals for old versions? 5 Re: What color were the VMS manuals for old versions? 5 RE: What color were the VMS manuals for old versions? " Re: Wollongong (Was: Pony Express)" Re: Wollongong (Was: Pony Express)  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:19:56 +0100 / From: Tim ffrench-Lynch <nospam@baesystems.com> . Subject: Re: 36 x DS10L 617 for only USD20,000. Message-ID: <3F16B08C.C58A3F52@baesystems.com>   > Island wrote: . > > 36 x Alphaserver DS10L Systems 617Mhz EV67: > > Total US$20,000 + $1400 shipping in EU, USA and Canada   "David J. Dachtera" wrote:3 > See if you can convince the boss to have Islandco H > buy it, then split it up yourselves and sell the DS10Ls with the rails > for a FAIR price.   < What sort of cost would it be to get VMS licences for these?  G I've been tasked with looking into the cost of renting VAXen to improve E the performance of a tool I currently run on 16 Vaxstations. I expect 8 licence costs would make the Alphaservers impossible :-(   Tim    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jul 2003 07:55:45 -00006 From: "Doc.Cypher" <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]>' Subject: Re: A rant about HP's website. 5 Message-ID: <20030717075545.4445.qmail@gacracker.org>   5 NOTE: This message was sent thru a mail2news gateway. 8 No effort was made to verify the identity of the sender.8 --------------------------------------------------------  E On Thu, 17 Jul 2003, Mark Daniel <Mark.Daniel@wasd.vsm.com.au> wrote:   B >The 8.2/8.3 (at least) supplied STARTUP.COM should allow for this >  > >$    IF WASD_VMS_SSL  > >$    THEN> > >$!      (ensure VMS OpenSSL shareable images are INSTALLed)K > >$       IF .NOT. F$FILE("SYS$LIBRARY:SSL$LIBCRYPTO_SHR32.EXE","KNOWN") - 4 > >           THEN INSTALL ADD /OPEN /HEADER /SHARE $ >SYS$LIBRARY:SSL$LIBCRYPTO_SHR32.EXEH > >$       IF .NOT. F$FILE("SYS$LIBRARY:SSL$LIBSSL_SHR32.EXE","KNOWN") -4 > >           THEN INSTALL ADD /OPEN /HEADER /SHARE ! >SYS$LIBRARY:SSL$LIBSSL_SHR32.EXE 
 > >$    ENDIF  > I >The images just need to be INSTALLed (nothing special) because the WASD   >images are.  J Thanks, that code is there, but isn't being run because WASD_VMS_SSL isn'tF set.  I've installed the images by hand and startup runs through okay.  1 >PS. tried mailing direct @ mung but was refused.   N SMTP not yet configured, plus I've not finished getting Perl going to keep theJ DNS entry updated.  I may resort to a Lynx-based kludge until I dig up theE patch to get Perl 5.8.0 to build with the latest CTRL patch in place.      Doc. --  K OpenVMS.         Eight out of ten hackers prefer *other* operating systems. K [New PGP Key - Get via finger]        http://deathrow.vistech.net/BOFH/doc/    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jul 2003 06:16:11 -0700/ From: ratkinson@tbs-ltd.co.uk (Robert Atkinson) & Subject: Advanced Server 7.3a Required= Message-ID: <ee8fff65.0307170516.14f07c59@posting.google.com>   B Has anyone got a copy of Advanced Server 7.2a they can FTP to me.   D I'm upgrading this weekend and stupidly forgot to check I'd actually got the software!   8 Please email me at ratkinson@tbs-ltd.co.uk.removethisbit     Thanks, Rob.   ------------------------------   Date: 17 JUL 2003 14:41:23 GMT4 From: karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher)* Subject: Re: Advanced Server 7.3a Required6 Message-ID: <17JUL03.14412339@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>  G In a previous article, ratkinson@tbs-ltd.co.uk (Robert Atkinson) wrote:   D ->Has anyone got a copy of Advanced Server 7.2a they can FTP to me.   G I assume you really want 7.3a like the subject says. If so you can down 3 load ADVANCEDSERVER-V0703-A1-1 (complete kit) from:   A   http://ftp.support.compaq.com.au/ecos.phtml?what=ADVANCEDSERVER    --G -- Carl Karcher, Waisman Computing Services, Waisman Center, UW-Madison 8 --                 karcher.nomorespxm@waisman.wisc.edu     ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:47:55 -0400  From: john_radnor@dofasco.caS Subject: anyone have any cheaper solutions for Memory Upgrades for DEC 3000 - M900? R Message-ID: <C67E869B53B8344ABD43CB6FB7A2AA9CB845F2@mailsrv01.hamilton.dofasco.ca>   Currently sitting at 128 Meg  2 Cost to double this to 256 Meg is about $7,000 CDN using either 8*32 Meg DIMMS  or 16*16 Meg DIMMSG (I'm not a hardware guy, so this is second hand info, but that is the =  cost)    eeek!      thanks John Radnor  Dofasco Inc    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:23:05 +0100 - From: Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com> Y Subject: Re: anyone have any cheaper solutions for Memory Upgrades for DEC 3000 - M900? 3 / Message-ID: <vhdfriib2uk04f@corp.supernews.com>    john_radnor@dofasco.ca wrote:  > Currently sitting at 128 Meg > 4 > Cost to double this to 256 Meg is about $7,000 CDN > using either 8*32 Meg DIMMS  > or 16*16 Meg DIMMSM > (I'm not a hardware guy, so this is second hand info, but that is the cost)   % Price of 256 Mbytes for DEC 3000-900:     UK 250		http://www.offtek.co.uk# UK 295		http://www.orcalogic.co.uk    +VAT  	 Roy Omond  Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:05:26 GMT 9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> ( Subject: Re: Concerns about buying Alpha0 Message-ID: <WWyRa.273$%i3.210@news.cpqcorp.net>  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3F15F4B7.C57A2B9B@fsi.net...  > Island wrote:  > > L > > Just out of curiosity - and yes, I know a lot of you can't or wopn't buy > > from Island. > > G > > What is the general opinion of buying Alpha systems now the Itanium  looks a  > > wee bit more viable ?  > B > Still waiting for Itanic to go mainstream and gain industry-wide6 > acceptance. Until then, its still Alpha all the way. >   L A reasonable strategy, and one that should mesh well with our release of VMS in '04.  Best of both worlds.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:22:47 +0200 ( From: "Jean-Luc RAYON" <jl-r@wanadoo.fr>Y Subject: Re: Does anyone remember IAS? (was: Re: What color were the VMS  manuals for old 2 Message-ID: <bf6bfh$9m1$1@s1.read.news.oleane.net>  H "Ken Robinson" <kenrbnsn1@patmedia.net> a crit dans le message de news:6 5.2.1.1.2.20030716225854.04419f88@mail.patmedia.net...3 > At 04:36 PM 7/16/2003 -0400, you wrote (in part): I > >PRE (under RSX and IAS [anyone remember that one???? on a PDP-11/70 no 	 > >less])  > H > I remember IAS on a PDP 11/70 in 1977 (I think it was V1 at the time). >  ... ) I remember IAS on a PDP 11/70 in 1981-82.       H I also started a new job as an applications programmer to do COBOL and I/ discover the "Interactive Applications System".    For me it was a revolution!   K I was coming from the prehistoric IBM word, programming on perforated cards H (1 compilation a day, result on a listing with an hexadecimal dump), andJ suddenly I was projected in the Moderns Times, working on a screen  (VT52)L with a line editor (MCR EDI), a fast compilator and this incredible thing: a DEBUGER!      & I have joined the wonderful DEC world!       Jean-Luc RAYON   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 23:39:53 -0500 ( From: Michael Rice <marice@whiteice.com>Y Subject: Re: Does anyone remember IAS? (was: Re: What color were the VMS manuals for old  / Message-ID: <vhca4v2dlngva6@corp.supernews.com>   * On 7/16/2003 10:23 PM, Ken Robinson wrote:  3 > At 04:36 PM 7/16/2003 -0400, you wrote (in part):  > I >> PRE (under RSX and IAS [anyone remember that one???? on a PDP-11/70 no 	 >> less])  >  > H > I remember IAS on a PDP 11/70 in 1977 (I think it was V1 at the time). > H > I started a new job as an applications programmer to do COBOL! When I J > got there, the system had just been installed. My manager and one other F > co-worker were going to be at DEC school learning about the system. J > Fortran was installed and an interpretive version of COBOL. I was given F > a non-privileged account, all of the manuals, a terminal (an old HP ( > terminal), and told to go "play".  :-) >  > Ken Robinson >   - One person's recollection/description of IAS:   # http://john.harper.free.fr/ias.html    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 20:54:29 -0700 7 From: David Spencer <spencer@spaamfree.pageweavers.com> ' Subject: Re: DVD compatibility with VMS B Message-ID: <160720032054292533%spencer@spaamfree.pageweavers.com>  U In article <vhac5k4cge0m2c@news.supernews.com>, Island <dbturner@islandco.com> wrote:   J > Can anyone give me a list of DVD's and CDRW that are compatible with VMS > (and T64 if possible)  > J > I am getting asked quite often for these and have not been able to quote > J > I know it comes down to the 512K block issue, but that is something BELL+ > Micro and other distys have no idea about   J David, I've had a lot of success using a Pioneer DVD-303S SCSI drive in myD PWS 500au. I've created ISO9660 discs on my Mac and read them on VMSM without any difficulty. The drive itself has a jumper for 512K blocks. That's  my 2 cents worth...      -- Dave Spencer, PageWeavers   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:20:57 +0200 2 From: "Dr. Otto Titze" <titze@ikp.tu-darmstadt.de>) Subject: Firmware Update using Infoserver 2 Message-ID: <3F16B0C9.1010501@ikp.tu-darmstadt.de>  < I need a firmware upgrade on an Alpha 3000/300. It has no CD? therefore I want to use my infoserver. I is normally no problem    >>>boot -fl 0,0 -file xxxx esa0  < But what do I have to use for the filname xxxx in this case?> I tried several .sys files but without success. (Normally when9 booting directly from CD I get some kind of a readme file 2 which proposes the proper for this type of system)   Regards  Otto     --  -   ------------------------------------------- , | Dr. Otto Titze, Kernphysik TUD           |, | Schlossgartenstr. 9, D-64289 Darmstadt   |, | titze@ikp.tu-darmstadt.de                |, | Tel: +49(6151)16-2916,FAX:16-4321        |-   -------------------------------------------    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jul 2003 10:17:09 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) H Subject: Re: getting rx2600 pricing (was: Why Alpha's Omega Makes Sense)3 Message-ID: <LXQm5uXr86lK@eisner.encompasserve.org>   l In article <BQyRa.269$hn3.126@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> writes:L > hp.com, and then follow the integrity server links through the entry level& > to the rx2600, and then quick quote.   On page    	http://www.hp.com  M neither I nor the Netscape search function could find the string "integrity".   # I found a link for "quick quote" on   9 	http://www.hp.com/products1/servers/integrity/index.html    but that produces the message:  5 	This site requires cookies to be enabled to function 0 	properly. Please enable cookies in your browser
 	to enter.   I do not get such a message at   	http://store.apple.com/  D where I am able to make configuration changes and get pricing on all	 products.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 14:32:55 GMT 9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> ( Subject: Re: Good code profilers on VMS?0 Message-ID: <rsyRa.264$Mk3.179@news.cpqcorp.net>  6 "Antonio Carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org> wrote in message8 news:AhkRa.12977$nP.163@newsfep4-winn.server.ntli.net... > Ken Randell wrote: > C > >>Additionally, the EDS teams are probably busy doing the DECnet, A > >>X.25, SNA and DECset (and whatever else they manage) ports to ? > >>Itanium so my guess is that you'll have to hold your breath  > >>even longer. > >> > >  > > * > > Isn't DECWindows on that list as well? > D > They do look after other things too and DECwindows was on the listB > but only the OpenVMS VAX version IIRC. Different codebase to the$ > Alpha side of the house I believe. > B > It's been nearly three years now since I was there so more stuff > may have migrated across.  >   L They maintain the client libraries and non-device-specific software for both Alpha and VAX Motif/DECwindows.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:09:48 +0100 + From: Alex Buell <alex.buell@munted.org.uk> ( Subject: Re: Good code profilers on VMS?H Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.56.0307171509270.24364@slut.local.munted.org.uk>  + On Thu, 17 Jul 2003, Fred Kleinsorge wrote:   E > > >>Additionally, the EDS teams are probably busy doing the DECnet, C > > >>X.25, SNA and DECset (and whatever else they manage) ports to A > > >>Itanium so my guess is that you'll have to hold your breath  > > >>even longer. > > >> > > >  > > > , > > > Isn't DECWindows on that list as well? > > F > > They do look after other things too and DECwindows was on the listD > > but only the OpenVMS VAX version IIRC. Different codebase to the& > > Alpha side of the house I believe. > > D > > It's been nearly three years now since I was there so more stuff > > may have migrated across.  > >  > N > They maintain the client libraries and non-device-specific software for both! > Alpha and VAX Motif/DECwindows.   3 Are we talking about EDS, the outsourcing company?    
 I'd run away.    --   http://www.munted.org.uk  F Telephone: A clever device by which two people in different places canE mutually admire each other's total inability to say anything coherent    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 08:20:46 +0200  From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>$ Subject: Re: Granularity hint region2 Message-ID: <bf5f9v$c9v$1@news3.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>    I have attempted to do the same.  Q The problem is that you can install stuff in the GH_RES_DATA area, but you can't  H de-install anything there. This does not apply to the GH_RES_CODE area !  O This is a very old bug, but since hardly anyone complains it hasn't been fixed   so far.   Q Personally I hate it when I'm trying to tune a system as best as I can, and then  L run into things like this. It is documented in the manuals how to use these ) areas, but in reality you can't use them.   P Another problem is that many VMS supplied libraries are not build with seperate I code and data areas. If you want to install a executable or library with  I anything more then then the standard header and shared options, then any  P referenced library must be installed with at least similar switches. And all of N those 'high tech tuning' switches require libraries to be build with separate  code and data regions.  O So in reality you can't use most of the 'high tech tuning' switches of install   I'm afraid.        Stanley F. Quayle wrote:H > Since starting with VMS 7.2 on Alpha, I've been attempting to use the A > granularity hint region to speed operation of several run-time   > libraries. > F > After boot, each call to INSTALL succeeds without errors.  However, D > if I later attempt to re-install the libraries (INSTALL DELETE or 0 > INSTALL REPLACE), I get the following message: > : > %INSTALL-I-NONRES, image installed ignoring '/RESIDENT' 3 > DISK$ALPHASYS:<SYS0.SYSCOMMON.SYSLIB>CRISPRTL.EXE > > -INSTALL-E-NOGHREG, insufficient memory in the code or data  > granularity hint region  > 0 > I have the following entries in MODPARAMS.DAT: > ! >   MIN_GH_RSRVPGCNT        = 400 " >   MIN_GH_EXEC_CODE        = 8192" >   MIN_GH_EXEC_DATA        = 8192" >   MIN_GH_RES_CODE         = 8192" >   MIN_GH_RES_DATA         = 8192 > F > The RTL's do get installed, but (apparently) without benefit of the 
 > GH regions.  > 6 > I'm currently on VMS 7.3-1 with all ECO's installed. >  > Can anyone help? >  > --Stan Quayle  > Quayle Consulting Inc. >  > ----------E > Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363  Fax: +1 614 868-1671 3 > 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147 ? > Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.com  >  >    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jul 2003 08:20:12 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 4 Subject: Re: HP World: Why Alpha's Omega Makes Sense3 Message-ID: <cAMn4GMryEqk@eisner.encompasserve.org>   k In article <DmiRa.190$7H2.78@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> writes: G > That's crap.  IIRC "Stripped" it's a little over $5k.  With a typical L > configuration, it's about $12k.  To get to $60k you have to be hanging all: > the memory, and all the I/O you can possibly hang on it. >   D    I was hoping to hear that.  Can you point me to the correct priceE    on the web site?  What I configured was 256MB and one disk.  Since E    VMS isn't shipping to most folks yet, I was not suprized to see no 0    VMS offerings, so I configured it with Linux.  J    $5K I can probably get.  $12K is closer to "maybe", but still less thanG    I was planning to worry about.  I was in shock when I ran into $60K.    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jul 2003 08:22:41 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 4 Subject: Re: HP World: Why Alpha's Omega Makes Sense3 Message-ID: <8U3rUbAUP0e2@eisner.encompasserve.org>   _ In article <x7KdnYya0vY2LoiiXTWJhw@metrocast.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:  > F > "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> wrote in message+ > news:DmiRa.190$7H2.78@news.cpqcorp.net...  >> That's crap.  > J > You really should be a bit less didactic when making a fool of yourself, > Fred.  > ; >>  IIRC "Stripped" it's a little over $5k.  With a typical " >> configuration, it's about $12k. > D > No, it's not.  I suspect that you may be thinking of the zx-seriesI > workstation prices rather than the rx-series server prices that Bob was H > referring to (though I can't vouch for his contention that they're theM > cheapest platforms on which VMS will be supported).  While I'm not going to K > bother checking (the HP Web site was a pain in the ass to get prices from K > last time I tried), my recollection is that server prices began somewhere  > North of $20K, stripped.  E    Anyone recall info in the roadmap which would provide more info on B    what IA64 models will ship supported by VMS 8.2?  For my needs,    cheapest is best.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 14:58:41 GMT 9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> 4 Subject: Re: HP World: Why Alpha's Omega Makes Sense0 Message-ID: <BQyRa.269$hn3.126@news.cpqcorp.net>  J hp.com, and then follow the integrity server links through the entry level$ to the rx2600, and then quick quote.  K I'm having some problems with the web site today, I looked up the numbers I L got a while back from the site - I was off a little for a stripped rx2600, aL single CPU rx2600 rack mount (without the rack - assuming you have one) withJ a 900Mhz CPU, 1GB of memory, Linux enablement, a 36Gb U320 disk, and a DVD ran something around 9K.  K If you want to boost the price, get the faster CPU's, add a second CPU, and J more memory.  I suspect you tried to configure 256Gb of RAM (since I don'tH think you can order it with less than 1Gb).  This is no different than aH DS25 or someone elses UNIX box... the memory (for example) can sometimesJ cost more than the system.  Oracle licenses can cost more than the system.F Etc.  A faster dual CPU box with more memory can easily get up to $20k6 quickly.  But the question was for a "stripped" system  J An entry level packaged zx2000 workstation with HP-UX runs ~$3900, I think( it gets down to ~$3300 with Linux on it.F http://www.smb.compaq.com/ctoBases.asp?ProductLineId=433&FamilyId=1427    * We have 3 of these boxes, and we like 'em.  K VMS is *not* on the price list because we are not supporting it for general I production at this time.  Right now, it is in the hands of specific ISV's J that are required to make the system useful.  At the end of the year, thisI will open up to early adopters.  Next year we will release the production  quality version.    H "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:cAMn4GMryEqk@eisner.encompasserve.org... C > In article <DmiRa.190$7H2.78@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge" ) <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> writes: I > > That's crap.  IIRC "Stripped" it's a little over $5k.  With a typical J > > configuration, it's about $12k.  To get to $60k you have to be hanging all < > > the memory, and all the I/O you can possibly hang on it. > >  > F >    I was hoping to hear that.  Can you point me to the correct priceG >    on the web site?  What I configured was 256MB and one disk.  Since G >    VMS isn't shipping to most folks yet, I was not suprized to see no 2 >    VMS offerings, so I configured it with Linux. > L >    $5K I can probably get.  $12K is closer to "maybe", but still less thanI >    I was planning to worry about.  I was in shock when I ran into $60K.  >    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jul 2003 09:56:33 -00006 From: "Doc.Cypher" <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]>T Subject: Re: OpenVMS Pearl - OpenVMS V8.0, first release on Itanium, ships  today!!!5 Message-ID: <20030717095633.6976.qmail@gacracker.org>   5 NOTE: This message was sent thru a mail2news gateway. 8 No effort was made to verify the identity of the sender.8 --------------------------------------------------------  9 On Wed, 16 Jul 2003, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote: : >"Paul Repacholi" <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote in message( >news:87u19m1kab.fsf@prep.synonet.com...( >> "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes: >>F >> > HP should offer a Christmas gift-wrapped version guaranteed to beB >> > couriered to your home by Dec. 24th, complete with gift-card. >>7 >> Where and when did that add run? I can't remember :(  >  > ; >HP doesn't advertise anything VMS. Ask Mary Ellen Fortier.   < Which is somewhere between unfortunate and downright stupid.  A without advertising any other well-intentioned plans will require  significantly more effort.  * Want to increase market share?  Advertise.  7 Want to encourage more ISVs to port to VMS?  Advertise.   * Want increased takeup in .edu?  Advertise.  9 No publicity is bad publicity as far as VMS is concerned.   J Face it, there is a widely held belief that VMS is dead, dying, or doesn'tN exist.  That meme needs caught and shot, or we're all doomed to run Lunix typeN operating systems and spend 24 hours a day worrying if some script kiddie will- get hold of exploit information before we do.      Doc. --  K OpenVMS.         Eight out of ten hackers prefer *other* operating systems. K [New PGP Key - Get via finger]        http://deathrow.vistech.net/BOFH/doc/    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 06:30:26 GMT * From: "Mark Buda" <buda_NO@SPAM.yahoo.com>" Subject: Re: openvms-alpha license; Message-ID: <6orRa.3160$KZ.1176410@news1.news.adelphia.net>   ? "Phillip R Sobottke" <psobottke@ameritech.net> wrote in message : news:FRkRa.10793$Vx2.4719644@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com...L > I found out that my digital ultimate workstation requires 75 units for theG > base license.  I have a new 15 unit base license, is there any way to  reduceI > the requirement for this machine.  I have no intention of using it as a 	 > server.     K You mentioned you have a license for 15 units.  What machine is the license I bought for?  I take it is not for the license you want to use it on.  You L have to transfer licenses from one machine to another, to legally be able toJ use it.  You would still be 60 units short of the required number of units with this license/PAK.  K I am not aware of any legal method to reduce the number of units needed for 
 a machine.  I NOTE: A license is the legal document that enables you to legally use the 	 software. = A PAK is the key that allows LMF to recognize its attributes.    --  
 Sincerely,	 Mark Buda    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jul 2003 09:10:59 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) " Subject: Re: openvms-alpha license3 Message-ID: <Fe5Xqv+YDQsh@eisner.encompasserve.org>   w In article <FRkRa.10793$Vx2.4719644@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com>, "Phillip R Sobottke" <psobottke@ameritech.net> writes: L > I found out that my digital ultimate workstation requires 75 units for theN > base license.  I have a new 15 unit base license, is there any way to reduceI > the requirement for this machine.  I have no intention of using it as a 	 > server.   3    Two things actually reduce the required units:     J       1) run it as a workstation instead of a server (boot via a graphics C       	 console instead of a serial console), I don't think you can '       	 get down from 75 to 15 this way   (       2) trade it in for a cheaper model   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:04:32 GMT 9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> 3 Subject: Re: OT: HP's PeeCee customer statisfaction 0 Message-ID: <4WyRa.272$Am3.183@news.cpqcorp.net>  L I know of at least one user who does it.  It suprised the heck out of me.  IG had changed some data structures and code for USB keyboard support, and J discovered someone who had (using documented stuff) figured out how to getL the right IK driver loaded and pointed to the right serial port in the rightK structures... and were happily using the old device connected to a standard J port (don't know where they got power, unless they tapped one of the modem- control signals or had a seperate supply ;-).     8 "Lord Isildur" <isildur@andrew.cmu.edu> wrote in messageB news:Pine.GSO.4.55L-032.0307161800370.6226@unix1.andrew.cmu.edu... > K > the hockey puck mice are serial, and the protocol is documented, so there > > is no good reason why one _cant_ use them on newer machines. > 	 > Isildur  > ' > On Wed, 16 Jul 2003, Bart Zorn wrote:  > > K > > Indeed, but unfortunately, those mice do not work on newer Alpha's with  > > a PS2 mouse interface. > > 
 > > Bart Zorn  > >  > >    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 14:35:35 GMT - From: "Kelvin Smith" <fcs_smith1111@snet.net> $ Subject: Re: PDP-11 OS Release DatesB Message-ID: <XuyRa.10619$hZ.3047576733@newssvr10.news.prodigy.com>  < "Thomas Dickey" <dickey@saltmine.radix.net> wrote in message$ news:bf13le$8pa$1@news1.radix.net...= > In comp.os.vms Kelvin Smith <fcs_smith1111@snet.net> wrote: G > > Well, at least one reason for the short variable names was so there  would beK > > no confusion between variable names and keywords, an ambiguity that has H > > tripped up more than one programmer since variable names got longer. There K > > would also have been space considerations; it's easy to forget now just  how H > > frightfully expensive RAM was back then ($1 or more per byte, IIRC). Most of  > , > iirc, it was "core" back then (late 60's).7 > "RAM" wasn't a commonly-used term til the early 70's.  >  > (still expensive, of course)  F It was still typically called core memory in the late 1970s when I gotK started with PDPs; I don't remember if it was actually physical core memory D (i.e., the ferrite donuts with wires running through) or it had beenL replaced with semiconductors by then. I forget that when I'm conversing in aK group like this, everyone actually understands what terminology like "core" & means (and perhaps even prefers such).   -- Kelvin Smith Financial Computer Systems
 Wilton, CT& (remove "1111" from address for email)   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:16:59 GMT   From: Rob Brown <brown@gmcl.com>$ Subject: Re: PDP-11 OS Release DatesL Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0307170913060.23385-100000@localhost.localdomain>  ' On Wed, 16 Jul 2003, sol gongola wrote:   B > I remember getting a blank ROM card. I programmed it by clipping > diodes off the card.   Wandering farther off-topic:  F I remember the first time I saw one of these.  It was about 1979, whenF the term EPROM was in common usage, so I was quickly able to determine; that the card was an MPROM (Mechanically Programmable ...).    ;-)      --    / Rob Brown                        brown@gmcl.com A G. Michaels Consulting Ltd.      (866)438-2101 (voice) toll free! 6 Edmonton                         (780)438-9343 (voice)4                                  (780)437-3367 (FAX)1                                  http://gmcl.com/    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:58:56 +0100 * From: Dave Brennan <nospam@edcworks.co.uk>. Subject: Re: PDP-11 OS/Layered Cross Reference8 Message-ID: <c70dhvkq49dlt26jicn2c4bt30lsu41cfm@4ax.com>  - Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote:   ( >Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com> writes: > , >> RSX-11M+ V1.0 came out, I think, in 1980. > E >M-PLUS was before that I think, 79 at latest. I can't remember if it < >was 78, or if that was TRAX with M-PLUS still in the wings. > H >BTW, M-PLUS v1 and v2 are almost different systems. v1 should have been >called TRAX-MINUS :)   E I think I was working on M+ in 1978/79. It was targetted at suporting A the multi processor PDP 11/77 which never made it out of the lab. 4 Dave[dot]Brennan[at]edcworks[dot]co[dot]uk[<cr><lf>]   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 06:28:24 -0600 % From: Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com> . Subject: Re: PDP-11 OS/Layered Cross ReferenceA Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20030717062654.00ba98f8@raptor.psccos.com>   * At 04:58 AM 7/17/2003, Dave Brennan wrote:. >Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote: > * > >Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com> writes: > > . > >> RSX-11M+ V1.0 came out, I think, in 1980. > > G > >M-PLUS was before that I think, 79 at latest. I can't remember if it > > >was 78, or if that was TRAX with M-PLUS still in the wings. > > J > >BTW, M-PLUS v1 and v2 are almost different systems. v1 should have been > >called TRAX-MINUS :)  > F >I think I was working on M+ in 1978/79. It was targetted at suportingB >the multi processor PDP 11/77 which never made it out of the lab.  C 11/74, not 11/77 (quad-processor 11/70, basically).  There was code E in RSX for supporting it, as it was developed, I believe, on an 11/74  in RSX engineering.    ------J +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+J | Dan O'Reilly                  |  "There are 10 types of people in this |J | Principal Engineer            |   world: those who understand binary   |J | Process Software              |   and those who don't."                |J | http://www.process.com        |                                        |J +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 08:40:46 +0100 + From: Alex Buell <alex.buell@munted.org.uk> 
 Subject: TLBs H Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.56.0307170837340.15441@slut.local.munted.org.uk>  E I have a set of old TLBs from 1990/1991, that I need to extract files I from. Are there any online references for the TLB format so I can write a ) program to extract files from these TLBs?    Thanks.    --   http://www.munted.org.uk  F Telephone: A clever device by which two people in different places canE mutually admire each other's total inability to say anything coherentR   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 09:01:38 +0100i+ From: Alex Buell <alex.buell@munted.org.uk>  Subject: Re: TLBs H Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.56.0307170900090.14678@slut.local.munted.org.uk>  & On Thu, 17 Jul 2003, Alex Buell wrote:  G > I have a set of old TLBs from 1990/1991, that I need to extract filesnI > from. Are there any online references for the TLB format so I can write - > a program to extract files from these TLBs?n  F Oh damn. I should have mentioned I don't have access to a VMS box, I'mD *cough* a Linux abuser. Thanks for the replies I've received so far.   -- n http://www.munted.org.uk  F Telephone: A clever device by which two people in different places canE mutually admire each other's total inability to say anything coherent    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 08:49:19 +0100m* From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]> Subject: Re: TLBse' Message-ID: <bf5kjq$s0j$1@lore.csc.com>e   Alex Buell wrote:- > G > I have a set of old TLBs from 1990/1991, that I need to extract filesaK > from. Are there any online references for the TLB format so I can write ai+ > program to extract files from these TLBs?l  > Why not just use the VMS librarian to extract the information?  3 Oh, OK, let me guess, you retired the "legacy" box.b  F As I'm aware the DCX compression and file format is not in regular useG anywhere else, and its unlikely to be documented as a format, like, sayM ZIP is.   E As you're in the UK, try contacting VOGON http://www.vogon.co.uk/ who G have VMS systems and could perform this service for you. A TLB could bewG single or multiple modules. Have a look at the online documentation forlA Librarian off of the VMS homepage. http://h71000.www7.hp.com/ ThenG manuals are for current version, but the librarian hasn't change enough- to worry about.-   --  ? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 09:19:09 +0100A+ From: Alex Buell <alex.buell@munted.org.uk>  Subject: Re: TLBs1H Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.56.0307170918360.23788@slut.local.munted.org.uk>  & On Thu, 17 Jul 2003, Alex Buell wrote:  ( > On Thu, 17 Jul 2003, Alex Buell wrote: > I > > I have a set of old TLBs from 1990/1991, that I need to extract filessK > > from. Are there any online references for the TLB format so I can writeo/ > > a program to extract files from these TLBs?e > H > Oh damn. I should have mentioned I don't have access to a VMS box, I'mF > *cough* a Linux abuser. Thanks for the replies I've received so far.  D Thanks for the replies. I've decided to get an account on a VMS box B somewhere and do it from there. Easiest course of action, I guess.   Cheers Alex.:   -- r http://www.munted.org.uk  F Telephone: A clever device by which two people in different places canE mutually admire each other's total inability to say anything coherente   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:24:42 +0200-5 From: "Philippe Bocher" <philippe.bocher@euriware.fr>@ Subject: Re: TLBso& Message-ID: <3f165bc7$1@news.euriware>  B "Alex Buell" <alex.buell@munted.org.uk> a crit dans le message deB news:Pine.LNX.4.56.0307170837340.15441@slut.local.munted.org.uk...G > I have a set of old TLBs from 1990/1991, that I need to extract filesNK > from. Are there any online references for the TLB format so I can write aS+ > program to extract files from these TLBs?$ >E	 > Thanks.R >S > -- L > http://www.munted.org.uk > H > Telephone: A clever device by which two people in different places canG > mutually admire each other's total inability to say anything coherentg   Maybe   - library/extract=*/out=library.txt library.tlbc   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 21:31:27 -0700sJ From: "Dan" <bios#underscore#hack@spam.hotmale.nospam.com.use.spamcop.net>U Subject: Re: Trying to assemble a MicroVax -- Any help available in the Seattle area?e0 Message-ID: <tEpRa.92$5b4.73952@news.uswest.net>   First -- it is a MicroVAX II.g  L    I've got hard drives that I don't know how to install (or to confirm that I've got them hooked up right)>    I've got *NO* OS -- but I do have some blank 9-track tapes.K    I had the system "p.o.s.t."; but then as I've got no OS, the system will// stop. (good news here, the system _does_ work!)a8    I don't know how to get the 9 track to hook up right.  
 Dan FrenchE P.S. is there _any_ (however slow) practical use for it once I get it. working?    = "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> wrote in message % news:bf4g7s0h29@enews4.newsguy.com... K > Dan <bios#underscore#hack@spam.hotmale.nospam.com.use.spamcop.net> wrote:tG > > I've got a MicroVAX that I'm trying to get running again.  Is thereh someone.@ > > located in the Seattle area that can render some assistance? > L > You might try asking on the CLASSICCMP mailing list, as I believe a couple4 > people on it are in the area and mess with DEC HW. >wK > What exactly are the problems that you're having?  If it's a MicroVAX II,kL > your biggest problem is going to probably be getting a working RDxx drive.J > If at all possible I'd recommend finding a 3rd party ESDI controller and > disk.  >d > Zane >R   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 04:53:43 +0000 (UTC)h. From: dfevans@bcr10.uwaterloo.ca (David Evans)U Subject: Re: Trying to assemble a MicroVax -- Any help available in the Seattle area?m/ Message-ID: <bf5a4n$q4e$1@tabloid.uwaterloo.ca>-  0 In article <tEpRa.92$5b4.73952@news.uswest.net>,I Dan <bios#underscore#hack@spam.hotmale.nospam.com.use.spamcop.net> wrote:f >First -- it is a MicroVAX II. >9     Fun box.  Had one of those.4  M >   I've got hard drives that I don't know how to install (or to confirm that8 >I've got them hooked up right)6  J   Are these MFM drives hooked up to an RQDX3?  There should be info on theF web about how this stuff works; the NetBSD/vax archive might be a good place to start.   ? >   I've got *NO* OS -- but I do have some blank 9-track tapes.-  G   Well, there is NetBSD...there are other Unixes around as well, thoughB AFAIK all of the BSD variety.:  9 >   I don't know how to get the 9 track to hook up right.C >0      Is this drive a TSV05 or what?  F >P.S. is there _any_ (however slow) practical use for it once I get it	 >working?1 >M  G   Well, NetBSD is a modern Unix, so it will do pretty much anything anyrA other modern Unix will do, albeit more slowly and with more heat.s   -- iM David Evans          (NeXTMail/MIME OK)             dfevans@bbcr.uwaterloo.ca9M Ph.D. Candidate, Computer/Synth Junkie     http://bbcr.uwaterloo.ca/~dfevans/ M University of Waterloo         "Default is the value selected by the composereM Ontario, Canada           overridden by your command." - Roland TR-707 Manualz   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jul 2003 09:15:58 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)eU Subject: Re: Trying to assemble a MicroVax -- Any help available in the Seattle area?e3 Message-ID: <80iCZUXxfZja@eisner.encompasserve.org>   } In article <tEpRa.92$5b4.73952@news.uswest.net>, "Dan" <bios#underscore#hack@spam.hotmale.nospam.com.use.spamcop.net> writes:  > First -- it is a MicroVAX II.l > N >    I've got hard drives that I don't know how to install (or to confirm that  > I've got them hooked up right)@ >    I've got *NO* OS -- but I do have some blank 9-track tapes.M >    I had the system "p.o.s.t."; but then as I've got no OS, the system will-1 > stop. (good news here, the system _does_ work!)4: >    I don't know how to get the 9 track to hook up right.  =    If post the model numbers of the tape drive and the module F    numbers of the controller boards someone might be able to help you.   > Dan FrenchG > P.S. is there _any_ (however slow) practical use for it once I get it7
 > working?  C    Yes, it will run VMS, a fine piece of software.  Or you can loadn;    some version of UNIX on it if that's more to your taste.?   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:05:59 GMTn# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>.$ Subject: What are HP Insiders doing?G Message-ID: <rXyRa.15882$Ci2.3774@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>a  F http://moneycentral.msn.com/investor/invsub/insider/trans.asp?view=All &Symbol=hpqa  6 05/30/03 WAYMAN ROBERT PAUL Sold 179,176 $19.25 $3 Mil5 12/09/02 WAYMAN ROBERT PAUL Sold 73,580 $18.20 $1 Mila  4  05/22/03 BOWICK SUSAN D Sold 24,022 $17.98 $431,916  5  05/22/03 ZITZNER DUANE E Sold 15,952 $18.40 $293,517o  5  04/02/03 LIVERMORE ANN M Sold 23,927 $16.06 $384,268c5  09/10/02 LIVERMORE ANN M Sold 41,996 $14.08 $591,304   3  03/07/03 BOWICK SUSAN D Sold 6,650 $15.31 $101,771R  ;  03/05/03 CLARKE JEFFERY J Purchased 10,000 $15.38 $153,8003  0  12/11/02 DUNN DEBRA L Sold 5,000 $18.25 $91,250    . Wayman, the CFO, has sold 1/3 of his holdings.  F Lots of reasons why all these sales could be occuring, but very little! is happening on the buying front.0   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:21:39 GMTo9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>b( Subject: Re: What are HP Insiders doing?0 Message-ID: <DWARa.295$qA3.254@news.cpqcorp.net>  G Apparently not selling stock at the peak or upswing, since all of thesecJ numbers are a couple bucks shy of the current price.  I sold *my* pittanceH of stock too not too long ago, property taxes in NH are brutal - doesn'tI mean I think the stock isn't worth holding onto.  I too sold below $20...rJ the State of NH doesn't take IOU's against stock, they like cash.  I wouldK assume others also like to occasionally convert stock into cash so they can 	 spend it.i  H But of course, what you really are starting this troll thread for was to? somehow imply that some HP insiders are dumping their holdings.     . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageA news:rXyRa.15882$Ci2.3774@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...iH > http://moneycentral.msn.com/investor/invsub/insider/trans.asp?view=All
 > &Symbol=hpqt >e8 > 05/30/03 WAYMAN ROBERT PAUL Sold 179,176 $19.25 $3 Mil7 > 12/09/02 WAYMAN ROBERT PAUL Sold 73,580 $18.20 $1 Mils >d6 >  05/22/03 BOWICK SUSAN D Sold 24,022 $17.98 $431,916 > 7 >  05/22/03 ZITZNER DUANE E Sold 15,952 $18.40 $293,517  > 7 >  04/02/03 LIVERMORE ANN M Sold 23,927 $16.06 $384,268K7 >  09/10/02 LIVERMORE ANN M Sold 41,996 $14.08 $591,304e >i5 >  03/07/03 BOWICK SUSAN D Sold 6,650 $15.31 $101,771c >s= >  03/05/03 CLARKE JEFFERY J Purchased 10,000 $15.38 $153,800a > 2 >  12/11/02 DUNN DEBRA L Sold 5,000 $18.25 $91,250 >n >i0 > Wayman, the CFO, has sold 1/3 of his holdings. >kH > Lots of reasons why all these sales could be occuring, but very little# > is happening on the buying front.h >1 >u >0 >1 >0   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jul 2003 08:04:34 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)0> Subject: Re: What color were the VMS manuals for old versions?3 Message-ID: <vCoPAOwaniol@eisner.encompasserve.org>y  b In article <3F159262.4E6F6735@vcu.edu>, Jim Agnew - VCU/MCV Neurosurgery <jpagnew@vcu.edu> writes: > Bob Koehler wrote: >hK >>    Tried KED, wishing I had EDT.  The next update we got to RSX includedt >>    EDT, so I dropped KED. >  > did it break???   ;-pc  G    Didn't see any pieces on the floor, so I suspect not.  DEC made some $    good software back in those days.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 09:14:54 -0400 8 From: Jim Agnew - VCU/MCV Neurosurgery <jpagnew@vcu.edu>> Subject: Re: What color were the VMS manuals for old versions?' Message-ID: <3F16A14E.E6081719@vcu.edu>    Alan Frisbie wrote:- >  > Dan O'Reilly wrote:2 > J > > BRU came out in RSX 3.2.  At the time I was working in the CSC (it wasJ > > called the "TSC" at the time) on the RSX team.  To us, "BRU" stood forL > > "backup and ruin utility", rather than "backup and restore utility".  It > > was REALLY buggy at first. >  > At our site: > # >      DSC = "Disk Smash & Corrupt"f' >      BRU = "Byte Randomizing Utility"t >  > Alan  , I remember it as "Bit Rearrange and shUffle" --  F "4,000 years ago I made a mistake."  Elrond Half-Elven, in "Fellowship of the Ring"  F "I try not to be right any more than necessary". -- Larry Wall, author of the Perl Language   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jul 2003 08:10:57 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)e> Subject: Re: What color were the VMS manuals for old versions?3 Message-ID: <j8tta65DUlAE@eisner.encompasserve.org>   a In article <qribhvohfbvfkrs3mjham7shr82j2r43l4@4ax.com>, David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com> writes:-? > On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 19:13:01 -0400, "Carlc Internet Services"s > ...m; >>AND... VMS Backup was invented in V2... Before that, DSC2i? >>was it... (Good ol "Disk Save and Compress"). AND... You used A >>"talk" instead of "phone" for IM... Oh yeah, IM was invented on1; >>VMS <GRIN>... we just didn't know it yet.... and, I'm notr: >>sorry to see it go, I remember using TECO to edit files. > P > Is that right? I thought VMS Backup came in about V3 for some reason. I recallK > being at the DECUS symposium where it debuted, but I can't be sure of thel- > details this late afterwards...getting old!o  K    I can remember needing to save some files from our first 11/780 to tape wF    under VMS 1 and our system manager gave me a BACKUP command.  SinceB    I'd been doing Files-11 tapes and didn't know any advantages to:    backup back then, I ignored him and did a copy instead.  G    I suspect /image came later and I recall standalone backup replaced vF    standalone DSC at 3.0 because I had to find some 8 1/2 floppies to H    put it on (I was the system manager on that system so I was the only #    one booting stuff off floppies).k   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 09:13:32 -040008 From: Jim Agnew - VCU/MCV Neurosurgery <jpagnew@vcu.edu>> Subject: Re: What color were the VMS manuals for old versions?' Message-ID: <3F16A0FC.5353BA8D@vcu.edu>    Bob Koehler wrote: > d > In article <3F159262.4E6F6735@vcu.edu>, Jim Agnew - VCU/MCV Neurosurgery <jpagnew@vcu.edu> writes: > > Bob Koehler wrote: > >.M > >>    Tried KED, wishing I had EDT.  The next update we got to RSX included  > >>    EDT, so I dropped KED. > >  > > did it break???   ;-pi > I >    Didn't see any pieces on the floor, so I suspect not.  DEC made somel& >    good software back in those days.  < Yes, they really, really did...  they were the John Deere of computers...   -- gF "4,000 years ago I made a mistake."  Elrond Half-Elven, in "Fellowship of the Ring"  F "I try not to be right any more than necessary". -- Larry Wall, author of the Perl Language   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:18:48 -0400h# From: "Dan Allen" <dallen@nist.gov>p> Subject: RE: What color were the VMS manuals for old versions?: Message-ID: <JFEPKAPBPMDFDBOIANGDAEJMDKAA.dallen@nist.gov>   > -----Original Message-----D > From: Bob Koehler [mailto:koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org]' > Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 9:11 AM9 > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com @ > Subject: Re: What color were the VMS manuals for old versions? >  > c > In article <qribhvohfbvfkrs3mjham7shr82j2r43l4@4ax.com>, David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com> writes: A > > On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 19:13:01 -0400, "Carlc Internet Services"n > > ...n= > >>AND... VMS Backup was invented in V2... Before that, DSC2 A > >>was it... (Good ol "Disk Save and Compress"). AND... You usedtC > >>"talk" instead of "phone" for IM... Oh yeah, IM was invented onr= > >>VMS <GRIN>... we just didn't know it yet.... and, I'm nott< > >>sorry to see it go, I remember using TECO to edit files. > > R > > Is that right? I thought VMS Backup came in about V3 for some reason. I recallM > > being at the DECUS symposium where it debuted, but I can't be sure of they/ > > details this late afterwards...getting old!. > R 	I seem to recall that was the 20th anniversary symposium in Miami, 1981. Could beJ 	wrong - the graffiti on my commemorative mug doesn't include "backup" ;-)   	Dan  M >    I can remember needing to save some files from our first 11/780 to tape cH >    under VMS 1 and our system manager gave me a BACKUP command.  SinceD >    I'd been doing Files-11 tapes and didn't know any advantages to< >    backup back then, I ignored him and did a copy instead. > I >    I suspect /image came later and I recall standalone backup replaced EH >    standalone DSC at 3.0 because I had to find some 8 1/2 floppies to J >    put it on (I was the system manager on that system so I was the only % >    one booting stuff off floppies).E >  >    ------------------------------   Date: 17 Jul 2003 12:49:31 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)+ Subject: Re: Wollongong (Was: Pony Express) 9 Message-ID: <bf660r$bf9np$2@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>E  8 In article <8lobhvgqscfqbbucuc9cmd3mqrmigpca44@4ax.com>,1 	Mike Bartman <omni@foolie.omniphile.com> writes:o > B > Yes, that's true.  The Wollongong Group was bought by Attachmate > Corporation around '97.   D Speaking of Wollongong, does anyone here know anything about Eunice?C I have a "bin" and a "src" tape here from 1985.  Any chance that itlD could be loaded on a VAX running VMS and still work?  Did it requireB something like a PAK in order to run? Does anyone think AttachmateC would care?  Does anyone have a contact at Attachmate that could be- asked about it?7  A I realize that Eunice wasn't much, but it was fun playing with itrB many moons ago and I would be curious to see it run once again and0 I do have the VAX resources here to try it.  :-)   bill   -- tJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   e   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jul 2003 08:35:04 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)t+ Subject: Re: Wollongong (Was: Pony Express) 3 Message-ID: <iOcTK2wRmbKO@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  d In article <bf660r$bf9np$2@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:: > In article <8lobhvgqscfqbbucuc9cmd3mqrmigpca44@4ax.com>,3 > 	Mike Bartman <omni@foolie.omniphile.com> writes:a >>  C >> Yes, that's true.  The Wollongong Group was bought by Attachmate- >> Corporation around '97. : > F > Speaking of Wollongong, does anyone here know anything about Eunice?  C    For those who don't know, Eunice was Wollongong's UNIX emulator PB    for VMS.  It had a csh and used logical names to map /dev/* to D    VMS device names.  It took more global sections than we were set D    up for so I never did finish installing it and never learned moreG    about it.  I couldn't see devoting parts of my 1MB RAM to emulating      some cryptic OS.t  E > I have a "bin" and a "src" tape here from 1985.  Any chance that ittF > could be loaded on a VAX running VMS and still work?  Did it requireD > something like a PAK in order to run? Does anyone think AttachmateE > would care?  Does anyone have a contact at Attachmate that could be  > asked about it?   B    Eunice predated LMF, so it can't need a PAK.  I don't recall itB    needing anything other than the install tape.  Some of it wouldD    probably still work, but I suspect some of it was privileged code    and might no longer work.  C > I realize that Eunice wasn't much, but it was fun playing with it D > many moons ago and I would be curious to see it run once again and2 > I do have the VAX resources here to try it.  :-)  H    Have fun and let us know how it goes.  Meanwhile I'll just use Cygwin0    on my PC when I really want an emulated UNIX.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.392 ************************