1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 21 Jul 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 400       Contents: Re: Can VMS ZIP encrypt? Re: Can VMS ZIP encrypt? Cisco/HP Storage Routers  Re: Custom Separator Page [DCPS]N Re: D.H. Brown: EV7 AlphaServers Deliver Enhanced RAS and Powerful PerformanceP Re: D.H. Brown: EV7 AlphaServers Deliver Enhanced RAS and Powerful Performance P RE: Does anyone remember IAS?  Re: Does anyone remember IAS? H Re: Does anyone remember IAS? (was: Re: What color were the VMS  manuals Re: HP FUDBusting  Re: HP FUDBusting  Re: HP FUDBusting  Re: HP FUDBusting  Re: HP FUDBusting + Re: HP World: Why Alpha's Omega Makes Sense P Re: IDC reports PC Market Share: Dell over HP by a nose; both pulling away from , Re: IDC: HP ranks No. 1 in 2002 HPTC revenueP Re: Intel's had Dirty Bombs Anthrax and everything! (Was: Re: HP World: Why Alph# Re: Mozilla... the new NULL process # Re: Mozilla... the new NULL process # Re: Mozilla... the new NULL process # Re: Mozilla... the new NULL process  Re: New OpenVMS-to-Itanium FAQ Re: NFS Authentication Re: NFS Authentication+ Obsolete cross compilers: where did you go? / Re: Obsolete cross compilers: where did you go? / Re: Obsolete cross compilers: where did you go? / Re: Obsolete cross compilers: where did you go?  Re: OpenVms Backup Re: OpenVms Backup Re: OpenVms Backup Re: OpenVms Backup Re: OpenVms Backup Re: OpenVms Backup Re: OpenVms Backup Re: OpenVms Backup Re: OpenVms Backup Re: OpenVms Backup Re: OpenVms Backup Re: OpenVms Backup Re: OpenVms Backup Re: OpenVms Backup Re: OpenVms Backup Re: OpenVms Backup" Re: Opteron motherboard maker sold" Re: Opteron motherboard maker sold Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates  Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates  Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates  Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates  Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates  Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates + Re: Printing to remote PCL5e/PCL6 lpd queue  Re: SHOW CLUSTER: SAVE Re: Sun and SCO  Re: Sun and SCO  Re: Sun and SCO & TCP-related Print-queue head-scratcher TCPIP/ROUTE & T1 CONFIG  Re: TCPIP/ROUTE & T1 CONFIG  Update VMS731_CDRECORD-V0100  Re: Update VMS731_CDRECORD-V0100  Re: Update VMS731_CDRECORD-V0100  Re: Update VMS731_CDRECORD-V0100? Re: Using MIME and SMTP mail results in %TCPIP-I-SMTP_LINEWRAP,  Re: What are HP Insiders doing?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 08:21:15 +0100 * From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]>! Subject: Re: Can VMS ZIP encrypt? ' Message-ID: <bfg4f1$ak3$1@lore.csc.com>    "Doc.Cypher" wrote:  > B > On Wed, 16 Jul 2003, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]> wrote: > >"Doc.Cypher" wrote: >    > > J > >Um I guess I can submit it. The scenario is I have built PGP on VAX andG > >Alpha with 2048 bit support at VMS 6.2 and the "earliest" C compiler G > >that would work. The aim is it works at this and all versions above.    > ) > Do you have a current URL for download?    Ask...  P > The version I have was done by Janis Jagars (aka Disastry).  His MULTI versionP > supports up to 8192 bit keys and a swathe of extra ciphers.  Sadly, Janis died/ > in a climbing accident on October 31st, 2002.  > 6 > Len Sassaman's obituary for Disastry can be found at/ > http://mixmaster.sourceforge.net/disastry.txt   7 Has anyone tried building this [the 05 multi] for VMS?     --  ? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------    Date: 21 Jul 2003 09:08:48 -00004 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]>! Subject: Re: Can VMS ZIP encrypt? 6 Message-ID: <20030721090848.24087.qmail@gacracker.org>  @ On Mon, 21 Jul 2003, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]> wrote: >"Doc.Cypher" wrote:  I >> The version I have was done by Janis Jagars (aka Disastry).  His MULTI 
 >> versionL >> supports up to 8192 bit keys and a swathe of extra ciphers.  Sadly, Janis >> died 0 >> in a climbing accident on October 31st, 2002. >>  7 >> Len Sassaman's obituary for Disastry can be found at 0 >> http://mixmaster.sourceforge.net/disastry.txt > 8 >Has anyone tried building this [the 05 multi] for VMS?    No idea.   This might help...   http://vmsbox.cjb.net/pgp/     Doc. --  K OpenVMS.         Eight out of ten hackers prefer *other* operating systems. K [New PGP Key - Get via finger]        http://deathrow.vistech.net/BOFH/doc/    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 07:18:11 -0400 " From: "Hal Kuff" <kuff@tessco.com>! Subject: Cisco/HP Storage Routers - Message-ID: <bfgi6u$cjq@library1.airnews.net>   K     Has anyone looked into using the new HP/Cisco 9216 type San switch with L IP services card over a T-3 to replicate a volume..? With the bandwidth of aJ T-3 at 20BG/Hour uncompressed it should work for disks that have less thenE that activity... We're thinking of using it for maintaining a copy of  archive log files remotely....   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 17:15:35 GMT * From: Paul Anderson <paul.anderson@hp.com>) Subject: Re: Custom Separator Page [DCPS] 5 Message-ID: <210720031318425861%paul.anderson@hp.com>   E In article <421ab8b7.0307191127.46970e1f@posting.google.com>, BigBarr  <tpercy23@hotmail.com> wrote:   B > I have created a custom separator page that I would like printedE > before each print job. My queues are already set to use a form with  > the /setup= qualifier.G > My question is how do I set the flag page to use the custom separator @ > page? I can set the flag in the dcps$startup.com but I get theH > standard flag page printed. I'm sure this is a simple task, but I am a9 > beginner and I do not have any documentation available.   G The DCPS flag page is module LPS$$SYSTEMPAGES in the DCPS$DEVCTL device G control library.  You might want to create a new library, put it before E DCPS$DEVCTL in the DCPS_LIB searchlist and put your own page in there  as LPS$$SYSTEMPAGES.  A DCPS passes variable data into LPS$$SYSTEMPAGES so each flag page G contains information such as user name and queue information.  It might = be easy for a static separator page, but getting that type of ? information printed on your page might be a little more tricky, C involving, as John Malmberg pointed out, some PostScript knowledge.   F There is no supported way to change the flag page in this way.  You're/ on your own, but others have certainly done it.    Paul   --    Paul Anderson   OpenVMS Engineering    Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 17:09:37 GMT 9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> W Subject: Re: D.H. Brown: EV7 AlphaServers Deliver Enhanced RAS and Powerful Performance / Message-ID: <l7VSa.508$uT.289@news.cpqcorp.net>   K "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> ; wrote in message news:bfgvfm$le9$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com...  > jlsue wrote:I > > On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:15:56 +0100, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy 2 > > <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote: > >  > = > Well think about it the other way. Itanium given the amount = > it has cost so far is unlikely to turn a profit in the next ? > 5 years, despite this your employer and Intel show no sign of $ > dropping consigning it to the bin. >   K You are absolutely clueless.  Did that come with the mail order MBA?  If we J put you in charge of Sun's finances you'd be out of business by the end of	 the year.   + The rest of your post is just as worthless.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:05:07 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> Y Subject: Re: D.H. Brown: EV7 AlphaServers Deliver Enhanced RAS and Powerful Performance P 0 Message-ID: <bfgvfm$le9$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   jlsue wrote:G > On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:15:56 +0100, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy 0 > <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote: >  >  >>jlsue wrote: >>K >>>On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 04:21:40 -0400, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> 	 >>>wrote: L >>>The only arithmetic that matters is the profit calculation.  Nobody knowsI >>>what that would be with EV8 investment:  design, manufacturing, system 4 >>>design/implementation, and price/volume of sales. >>>  >> >>D >>Umm right so how much has your employer sunk into Itanium over the >>last 13 or so years ???????  >  > E > Non sequitor.  Still doesn't answer whether the EV8 would have been 4 > profitable enough to make it worthwhile to pursue. >   ; Well think about it the other way. Itanium given the amount ; it has cost so far is unlikely to turn a profit in the next = 5 years, despite this your employer and Intel show no sign of " dropping consigning it to the bin.  < Historically HP has never made money on PC's or UNIX servers< nor is there any sign that they ever will, PC and Enterprise> profitability has only improved because of accounting changes,9 but HP show no sign of dumping their PC business or their  UNIX business.  1 IBM don't make money on PC's and don't expect to.   3 Companies remain in markets that are not profitable 4 for them for a host of reasons. IBM for example want3 to have a full portfolio of products including PC's 0 hoping to leverage profitable services, UNIX and mainframe business.   2 I don't know if EV8 would have been profitable for/ Compaq but it itsn't the only measure if it was 3 HP would only be a printer company if business unit  profitability was the measure.   > ? >>Estimates for HP and Intels joint spend on the project so far @ >>put Itanium at 5 billion dollars and climbing, this is 10x the/ >>cost of any other new ISA and implimentation.  >  > ? > Oh heck, you're comparing new startup of a new CPU vs ongoing G > implementations.  That's always going to be a non-starter.  Heck, the H > original Alpha design & implementation was a huge, huge investment for4 > Digital (the FAB-7 plant alone was a few billion). >   < No sorry, Intel allready has the FAB's they are used to make x86 processors.   ? 500 million is a rough ballpark for a new ISA, 5 billion is 10x % that and the FAB costs arn't in that.   A Current Itanium production doesn't warrant a dedicated FAB anyway 0 4000 units a quarter is a small corner of a FAB.    C > I don't think you're comparing apples-to-apples in that scenario.  >   ? Humm and you finished off your points by introducing FAB costs.    Alpha is FABless.    Regards  Andrew Harrison M > And it still doesn't answer how much profit they hoped to get from EV8 - if M > they could even predict any.  It's not inconceivable that they envision the F > Intel architecture will have a much larger volume than the Alpha has, > gotten, and thus would be more profitable. >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:35:53 -0400 # From: "Dan Allen" <dallen@nist.gov> & Subject: RE: Does anyone remember IAS?: Message-ID: <JFEPKAPBPMDFDBOIANGDAENLDKAA.dallen@nist.gov>  M This the same Mike that did our dual 11/70's at Navsea in 78 - proud owner of  a Pontiac badged rocket-sled?    Dan    > -----Original Message-----) > From: w m r [mailto:wmr282@hotmail.com] % > Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 7:50 PM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ( > Subject: Re: Does anyone remember IAS? >  > F > Oh yeah, then we got another 11/70 and we cross-connected them usingH > the dual ports of the RP07's.  I used DR-11C's to lock between the two: > and chopped up the F11ACP to share access on the drives. >  > Mike >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 10:23:31 -0700 * From: Alan Frisbie <Abuse@Flying-Disk.com>& Subject: Re: Does anyone remember IAS?. Message-ID: <3F1C2193.4090207@Flying-Disk.com>   w m r wrote:   > I used IAS back in late 70's.   G > We used it for graphics applications.  We had a funky 3D vector-style G > graphics scope that plugged into the unibus, and DMA'd the phigs-like F > display list instructions from the PDP's memory.  I wrote the driver, > for it and a low-level subroutine library.  ? I used RSX-11D and IAS in the late 1970's also, first at Conrac @ (telephone test/diagnostic/logging systems), then at InteractiveC Graphic Systems.   At IGS we wrote drivers and subroutine libraries @ for thost "funky 3D vector-style" graphics scopes, in particular> those from Vector General.   They were really nice scopes, butC rather pricy.   We had a lot of fun doing cool stuff in those days.   B IAS/RSX-11D had a lot of things going for it, but it cost in termsD of memory and CPU usage.   RSX-11M was much more of a "lightweight",D but would run on configurations that RSX-11D could not.   Cutler andE friends did a really good job of turning a "minimal" operating system ' into major competition for RSX-11D/IAS.   G One story I recall was that there was supposed to be a division between E RSX-11M and RSX-11D such that M was for low-end systems and D was for D high-end (PDP-11/70).   As the story goes, Cutler got word that thisF decision was being made, but before the memo went out.   He then spentD the entire weekend finishing 11/70 support for M so that it was done- and working on Monday when the memo came out.   D As RSX-11M gained in popularity, we ported our drivers and librariesF to it, and later to VMS.   We also did a port to the DEC VS60 graphics3 scope.   I still have the VS60 sitting in my house.   E Those who know me will not be surprised that I still have the manuals " for all the hardware and software.  D The thing I would *really* like to get my hands on is a distributionB tape for the last (or close to it) IAS release.   Can anyone help?2 My guess is that it would have been about 1984-86.   Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:00:40 GMT 9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> Q Subject: Re: Does anyone remember IAS? (was: Re: What color were the VMS  manuals / Message-ID: <I6USa.499$mK.388@news.cpqcorp.net>   6 "Paul Sture" <p_sture@elias.decus.ch> wrote in message# news:XMfmZ$XWQuq9@elias.decus.ch... 7 > In article <3F16E919.2BB250AD@pacbell.net>, Don Sykes  <anonymous@pacbell.net> writes:   L > We once bought an accounts package written in DIBOL. It had been developedJ > on an 11/70 under RSTS (not sure which flavour) and ran like an absolute% > dog on our 11/34 using RT-11 & TSD.  > H > The monthly statements program couldn't even keep the printer going at( > full speed until I did a rework of it. > F > But properly written DIBOL, which the rest of our applications were,H > performed very well for the time. Response times were better than some much0 > more modern systems I came across years later.  H I remember the guy in our office who wrote a DIBOL to COBOL convertor in5 TECO (and which software services sold as a tool ;-).    ------------------------------    Date: 21 Jul 2003 10:37:16 -00004 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> Subject: Re: HP FUDBusting6 Message-ID: <20030721103716.26065.qmail@gacracker.org>  ? On Sat, 19 Jul 2003, Stefaan A Eeckels <hoendech@ecc.lu> wrote:  >On 19 Jul 2003 09:25:46 -0700* >bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote: > 6 >> > Isn't VMS a case of "security through obscurity"? >> >  ) >> > Just to make sure people get it: :-)  >>  > >> no, vms is security through security ... and we all get it,9 >> we get that you don't know what you are talking about!  >  >Oh my, are we grumpy today.  G Bob's like that with anyone who doesn't believe that VMS will end world C hunger, stop script kiddies from breaking into systems, and achieve  marketplace domination.   N I *hate* to say he's right, but VMS security has had many of the features that% Theo worked into BSD for a long time.   4 >I'm pleased for you you feel Compaq/HP's management >of VMS entirely satisfactory.    L Heh.  As someone (presumably) from a *ix background, what would you suggest?  M Those of us from comp.os.vms who remain critical want marketing, improved ISV G support, more open source packages available, and an improved education L programme.  I believe the first of these is the critical one because without7 awareness, the "VMS is dead" meme is self-perpetuating.   N Believe it or not, there are rumours that hp is working on some of the others.     Doc. --  K OpenVMS.         Eight out of ten hackers prefer *other* operating systems. K [New PGP Key - Get via finger]        http://deathrow.vistech.net/BOFH/doc/    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:00:36 +0200 ) From: Stefaan A Eeckels <hoendech@ecc.lu>  Subject: Re: HP FUDBusting5 Message-ID: <20030721160036.6c4723bc.hoendech@ecc.lu>    On 20 Jul 2003 16:58:33 -0700 ) bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote:   9 > we are not talking about management, you stated vms was 1 > security thru obscurity which is 100% false ... % > don't try to change the subject ...   9 For crissakes man, it was a joke. I even added the smiley 8 for the humor-challenged. VMS is an obscure OS, whatever7 its qualities; sooner or later, you'll have to face the  facts.     --   Stefaan  --  C "What is stated clearly conceives easily."  -- Inspired sales droid    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 15:58:05 +0200 ) From: Stefaan A Eeckels <hoendech@ecc.lu>  Subject: Re: HP FUDBusting5 Message-ID: <20030721155805.6f3aee4d.hoendech@ecc.lu>    On 21 Jul 2003 10:37:16 -0000 5 Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote:   A > On Sat, 19 Jul 2003, Stefaan A Eeckels <hoendech@ecc.lu> wrote:   > >On 19 Jul 2003 09:25:46 -0700, > >bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote: > > 8 > >> > Isn't VMS a case of "security through obscurity"? > >> >  + > >> > Just to make sure people get it: :-)  > >>  @ > >> no, vms is security through security ... and we all get it,; > >> we get that you don't know what you are talking about!  > >  > >Oh my, are we grumpy today. > I > Bob's like that with anyone who doesn't believe that VMS will end world E > hunger, stop script kiddies from breaking into systems, and achieve  > marketplace domination.  > B > I *hate* to say he's right, but VMS security has had many of the5 > features that Theo worked into BSD for a long time.   
 I know that.    6 > >I'm pleased for you you feel Compaq/HP's management! > >of VMS entirely satisfactory.   > E > Heh.  As someone (presumably) from a *ix background, what would you 
 > suggest?  : I did some work on VMS way back in 1986-1987, but I'm more7 of a Unix man by heart (I guess people who're primarly  < programmers prefer Unix, whereas administrators prefer VMS).  B > Those of us from comp.os.vms who remain critical want marketing,C > improved ISV support, more open source packages available, and an D > improved education programme.  I believe the first of these is theC > critical one because without awareness, the "VMS is dead" meme is  > self-perpetuating. > H > Believe it or not, there are rumours that hp is working on some of the	 > others.   ? It's a difficult question. The PC juggernaut delivers such low  < prices that any niche system (and the commercial Unixes are ? rapidly becoming niche systems as well) that isn't the mainstay > of a company is bound to be ill-treated. Look at AIX, and HP's? Unixes, they're not exactly getting the royal treatment either. = Solaris is Sun's mainstay, but Sun's having its fair share of > problems for the same reasons the Unix boxes of HP and IBM are selling slowly.   ? Windows and cheap PC hardware are the living proof that quality ? doesn't sell computers if the price and performance differences @ are too pronounced. People buy Mercs that are twice as expensive< as Chevies, but probably wouldn't buy them if they were five( times as expensive, and slower to boot.   @ I agree that awareness is very important - there's no way you'll? sell systems no-one knows about, and the natural staff turnover ? in companies will ensure that the people who know VMS (or Unix) > and its advantages will be replaced by people comfortable with= Windows. Getting them to see the light will be very difficult ' (I've first-hand experience with this).   E Having 'modern' tools available is equally important. Without Apache, ? Java, PHP, Perl, SSL, MySQL etc., all the security in the world F isn't going to assure the continued use of VMS (let alone its adoption by non-VMS shops).  > Actually, I think that one of the solutions might be to have aD privately held 'Alpha/VMS/Tru64' company. The installed user base is: large enough that it would turn a profit, and have genuineC long-term prospects. The problem is that the Alpha/VMS/Tru64 profit C margin isn't substantial enough to stop HP from axing the processor C and the OSes, reasoning from their narrow stock market perspective.    --   Stefaan  --  C "What is stated clearly conceives easily."  -- Inspired sales droid    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:40:00 GMT 9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>  Subject: Re: HP FUDBusting/ Message-ID: <AHUSa.503$4Q.409@news.cpqcorp.net>   C Also add a very large grain of salt to anything your read by a very  disgruntled ex-DEC employee.  G My bias is upfront and clear:  I am a VMS developer employed by HP.  My H opinion and advice for VMS is that it has a long term future here in HP.I From the bottom up, I have experienced nothing but positive comments from K hardware and software engineering organizations.  We are well on our way to L delivering a general production release of VMS on Itanium in 2004, and whileH the "public" roadmap may not have been updated in a while - that doesn'tJ mean anything.  I am in HW design meetings for systems being developed forK the 2007 timeframe, and who want VMS input (just as an example).  The short L term cost of doing the port to Itanium will ease over the next 12-18 months,H and let us expand the various functional and performance projects we areK working on.  Itanium2 has achieved competetive performance with the leading E 64-bit architectures, and it's roadmap will continue to put it at the H leading edge of performance and scaleability.  It has wide, and wideningI support from major vendors, and a choice of nearly any OS except Solaris. K HP has programs designed to retain our Alpha customers in the transition to K Itanium - talk to your local HP sales rep.  In terms of UNIX, the big three J are IBM, HP, and Sun - pick your order depending on what criteria you wantK to use.  So with Tru64 features being ported to HP-UX -- you should be able D to plan your UNIX migration (or you can choose to migrate to Linux).    5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message , news:EJ2cnXqAj_h094WiXTWJjQ@metrocast.net... > J > "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in message/ > news:medSLAinDyGR@eisner.encompasserve.org...  >  > ...  > A > >    VMS is what you want.  HP is spending lots of money on VMS  > H > Most of it, unfortunately, on the port rather than on the core featureK > development that would make it more generally competitive and viable into L > the future.  And, of course, HP continues the Compaq tradition of spendingG > *nothing* on VMS marketing, which carries a strong message in itself.  >  >  andE > >    has shipped the first release VMS on IA64 to partners to start G > >    porting thier products.  Take a look and see if the products you D > >    need are already commited to ports.  Most of this info can beJ > >    found on the OpenVMS web site or contact a HP sales folk and demand) > >    a sales rep who known what VMS is.  > > : > >    You will, of course, here much FUD about VMS dying. > I > Possibly because there's reason for exactly that concern.  Take a close  lookL > at the current VMS roadmap (no committed core development after next year,L > and precious little 2005 development even for layered products) - and keepA > in mind that HP's roadmaps are supposedly 5-year projections...  > G > If all you'll need for the next 7 years is what VMS will provide next  year, D > and all the performance you'll require will be the modest increase	 scheduled L > for Alpha next year, and the ratcheting up of service and component pricesK > that tends to occur when a platform (Alpha) becomes increasingly 'legacy'  inL > nature is not a problem for you, you'll probably be happy with the choice. >  > - bill >  >  >    ------------------------------    Date: 21 Jul 2003 17:49:42 -00004 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> Subject: Re: HP FUDBusting5 Message-ID: <20030721174942.2153.qmail@gacracker.org>   ? On Mon, 21 Jul 2003, Stefaan A Eeckels <hoendech@ecc.lu> wrote:  >On 21 Jul 2003 10:37:16 -00006 >Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote:  C >> I *hate* to say he's right, but VMS security has had many of the 6 >> features that Theo worked into BSD for a long time. >  >I know that.   ; Ah, an *ix person with a broad background.  How refreshing.   ; >I did some work on VMS way back in 1986-1987, but I'm more 8 >of a Unix man by heart (I guess people who're primarly = >programmers prefer Unix, whereas administrators prefer VMS).   H It's very much a different mindset for programming on VMS, from a recentJ presentation there was a comment about it being possible to treat VMS justM like another *ix.  Once things like the lack of fork are overcome, you'd only J need to add a suitable shell for those from an *ix background to feel more comfortable.  I >> Believe it or not, there are rumours that hp is working on some of the 
 >> others. > @ >It's a difficult question. The PC juggernaut delivers such low = >prices that any niche system (and the commercial Unixes are  @ >rapidly becoming niche systems as well) that isn't the mainstay? >of a company is bound to be ill-treated. Look at AIX, and HP's @ >Unixes, they're not exactly getting the royal treatment either.> >Solaris is Sun's mainstay, but Sun's having its fair share of? >problems for the same reasons the Unix boxes of HP and IBM are  >selling slowly.    M You'll get our other troll out from under his bridge commenting about Sun. :)   @ >Windows and cheap PC hardware are the living proof that quality@ >doesn't sell computers if the price and performance differencesA >are too pronounced. People buy Mercs that are twice as expensive = >as Chevies, but probably wouldn't buy them if they were five ) >times as expensive, and slower to boot.    E Ack.  Part of what people buy into is the quality/reliability/ease of K maintenance.  Many are even convinced that over the long term it costs them  less.   A >I agree that awareness is very important - there's no way you'll @ >sell systems no-one knows about, and the natural staff turnover@ >in companies will ensure that the people who know VMS (or Unix)? >and its advantages will be replaced by people comfortable with > >Windows. Getting them to see the light will be very difficult( >(I've first-hand experience with this).  * Windows weenies?  LART 'em till they glow.  F >Having 'modern' tools available is equally important. Without Apache,@ >Java, PHP, Perl, SSL, MySQL etc., all the security in the worldG >isn't going to assure the continued use of VMS (let alone its adoption  >by non-VMS shops).    Apache - check. 
 Java - check.  PHP - check.
 Perl - check.  OpenSSL - check. MySQL - check.   ;-)   ? >Actually, I think that one of the solutions might be to have a * >privately held 'Alpha/VMS/Tru64' company.   Perchance called d|i|g|t|a|l?    >The installed user base is ; >large enough that it would turn a profit, and have genuine D >long-term prospects. The problem is that the Alpha/VMS/Tru64 profitD >margin isn't substantial enough to stop HP from axing the processorD >and the OSes, reasoning from their narrow stock market perspective.  K Alpha is on the way out, and a porter's version (v8.0) of VMS on Itanium is  now available.   (Not for Stefaan's benefit...)! BUT WHERE'S THE #$%ING MARKETING?      Doc. --  K OpenVMS.         Eight out of ten hackers prefer *other* operating systems. K [New PGP Key - Get via finger]        http://deathrow.vistech.net/BOFH/doc/    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 17:20:14 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> 4 Subject: Re: HP World: Why Alpha's Omega Makes Sense0 Message-ID: <bfh3sh$n6r$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:J > If you want a cost effective desktop, there is no competition for a wellH > equiped IA32 PC.  Non-Intel systems just aren't competetive.  The onlyN > market for non-IA32 desktops is for legacy/compatability, highly specializedF > custom applications, as development systems, and the lunatic fringe. > K > I don't care if it's Solaris, VMS, or any other non-Windows O/S - you get I > cheaper hardware, cheaper software, a wider variety of software, higher 2 > performance graphics, etc, etc, on IA32/Windows. > H > An Oopteron desktop has no real appeal - except to a handful of peopleK > (compared to the overal market) interested in developing for Win64.  It's N > more expensive and more limited.  So it would appeal to a very small segment > of the overall market. >   < Firstly you are unlikely to see Opteron desktops, Opteron is; AMD's 1-8 way server chip, just as you are also unlikely to 6 see XeonMP desktops or Itanium desktops (in the wild).  8 Althon-64 desktops you will see and they already have an: appeal. A number of games vendors have announced that they> will be supporting Althon-64 on Win64. I expect visualisation,$ video editing etc to follow as well.  ? And Althon-64 will probably entirely replace the current Althon > line, AMD's roadmap says that they will only continue to build& 32bit processors while demand remains.  E > I would expect a $4000 IPF system to appeal to someone who wants to E > write/port VMS code - where the fact that you can buy a $2000 PC is 5 > meaningless - since it doesn't do what you require.  >    This is hardly a mass market.   5 It also isn't a terribly good message to ISV's is you 9 have the most expensive platform per seat for developers.   8 Cost of development is a factor in any ISV's decision on5 their support for your platform. Making them fork out ; 4x the cost for the infrastructure to support your platform  isn't going to help.   Regards  Andrew Harrison 6 > "Carl Perkins" <carl@gerg.tamu.edu> wrote in message) > news:15JUL200321114996@gerg.tamu.edu...  > < >>In article <vh868q78ftpbcd@corp.supernews.com>, Greg Cagle > ! > <gregc@gregcagle.com> writes...  > + >>}Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:  >>} < >>}> AMD will also be able to build 64bit desktops something< >>}> that you cannot do economically or easily with Itanium. >>} 1 >>}http://www.hp.com/workstations/itanium/zx2000/  >>}  >>}Web price $3298.  >>}  >>}-- 
 >>}Greg Cagle  >>H >>Which is not a good price for a PC, or a workstation for that matter -B >>especially when you consider what you are getting at that price. >>K >>At that price the zx2000 doesn't even include an OS (it's the Linux-ready I >>version, but it doesn't actually come with Linux). If you want one with I >>an OS installed, it will be at least $3,910 for the basic HP-UX system. E >>That is with the somewhat modest ATI Radeon 7000 graphics card (the D >>current top of the line ATI PC, rather than workstation, card, theE >>9600 Pro, is around 10 times as fast), and it also only has AGP 4x, F >>but 8x is now standard on PCs (not even looking at workstations). It@ >>also has a 40GB EIDE hard drive (no SCSI at this price point). >>E >>Athlon64 based PCs should come in at, and possibly under, half this B >>"no OS" price in a useable configuration. The Athlon64 system atE >>half the price will probably be noticably faster than a zx2000 too, G >>as that only has a 900MHz Itanium 2 with 1.5MB on-chip cache, not the D >>new fast versions - not to mention that it only has DDR266 memory.G >>I expect you'll be able to use DDR400 with about any Althlon64 system G >>on they day they come out, many (if not all) with dual channel DDR400 H >>memory to match that 6.4GB/sec the zx2000 claims - what is that, threeI >>DDR266 modules wide? DDR266 is only a little over 2.1GB/sec so it would E >>have to be unless it is 4 wide but rated on the CPU's communication J >>rate rather than the memory. (Realistically though, the new dual channelG >>chipsets on PCs rarely seem to add much more than 50% to their memory  >>throughput.) >>J >>Of course a new low-end Itanium system with the newer faster versions ofH >>the processor and other updates to todays standard component specs mayE >>well be out before the Athlon64 systems, but how much will it cost? F >>If it is over $2000 in a decent configuration (like including an OS,H >>at least) it is well over what an Athlon64 system is likely to run you! >>in a rather nice configuration.P >>
 >>--- Carl >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:34:39 +0100AO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> Y Subject: Re: IDC reports PC Market Share: Dell over HP by a nose; both pulling away from  0 Message-ID: <bfh172$m94$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Keith Parris wrote: ( > From Interex's HP World News, July 17: > G > Mike Elgan comments on the real story behind the latest numbers.  Seel: > http://www.interex.org/hpwnews/content/hpwn07.17.03.html >  > Also,y > * > "HP comments on IDC PC market share data > E > Market research firm IDC has said that PC sales grew by 7.6 percentrG > year over year worldwide, ahead of the projected 4.1 percent. "The PC B > growth is good news for the industry," HP said. "Once again thisF > quarter, the race continues to be a two-horse competition between HP > and Dell." > G > o  Measured by analysts as a merged company for the first time -- and B > coming shortly after the one-year anniversary of its merger with/ > Compaq - HP grew market share year over year.oH > o  HP grew faster than the market in the second quarter -- despite the* > period's traditional seasonality issues.B > o  HP has grown faster than the market in three of the last fourD > quarters and expects to continue the positive trend going forward.F > o  Year over year -- and in the first year measured by analysts as aB > merged company - HP's growth rate was nearly double the market's > overall growth rate.B > o  HP retained its No. 1 position in Europe, the Middle East andE > Africa and maintained a strong No. 2 position in the United States.D > ; > http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/2003/030716a.htmlg    8 Funny I remember not so long ago when HP were trumpeting8 their lead over Dell when their first 2 quarters numbers5 showed the combined company having the largest market  share.  < Before that Compaq by themselves were the leading PC vendor.  5 The new spin now seems to be being in the top two not  number one.S  7 That and the merger is going great, funny you can still 8 buy almost all the products that each indevidual company7 produced before the merger but apparently the merger is- nearly complete.  3 I never realised that the merger was just combiningw5 business cards, web sites and offices. I guess Waltere4 Hewlett didn't either otherwise I cannot see what he was compaining about.   1 But seriously HP is becoming a bit of an industry. laughing stock.   * UNIX number one                        NOT* PC business returning to profitability NOT* Ditto Enterprise Division              NOT* Merger complete                        NOT* Its good to be second                  NOT       Regardsl Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:24:24 +0100oO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>u5 Subject: Re: IDC: HP ranks No. 1 in 2002 HPTC revenuey0 Message-ID: <bfh0jr$lsd$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Keith Parris wrote:  > From HP World News, July 17: > < > "HP ranks No. 1 in 2002 high-performance computing revenue > P > HP cited industry research firm IDC to claim it is the worldwide market leaderP > for High Performance Technical Computing (HPTC) in 2002. IDC's "Worldwide HighK > Performance Systems Technical Computing Census 2002" report shows that HPrP > commands 34 percent revenue share, more than a five percentage point lead over > IBM."0 > . > http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/030714/145265_1.html    A Shame that the 3 big DARPA contracts for HPTC systems in the HPCSt; program have gone in a pretty even split of ~50 million pera company to IBM, Sun and Cray.    Regards  Andrew Harrisony   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 17:20:47 GMTg9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>bY Subject: Re: Intel's had Dirty Bombs Anthrax and everything! (Was: Re: HP World: Why Alph / Message-ID: <PhVSa.509$hU.317@news.cpqcorp.net>r  F Now, now.  Bill is the Ralph Nader of the computer industry.  He is anL altruistic and brilliant analyst who fights only for Truth, Justice, and the# Ame... ah... the... well - his way.f   Just to keep things straight...c  % Bill is not a disgrunted ex-employee.-' Bill is not just PO'ed about the world.1# Bill is not just PO'ed about Alpha.c; Bill is not just PO'ed about every CEO since Ken was fired.6 Bill is not just bored.t" Bill does not just want attention.; Bill is not a fictional character from Pinky and the Brain.a  K He is not any of those things.  He only has the best interests of us all atrI heart.  And when he runs the world, things will be better.  A lot better.. Really, really better.    3 "jlsue" <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net> wrote in messagey2 news:h5aghvkavsukjcto77hkv3qsd1ciu3g7le@4ax.com...J > On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 13:59:33 -0400, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> > wrote: >o > >a6 > >"jlsue" <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message5 > >news:bta8hvckul9tkf2nkt0m639n22o7nstvgq@4ax.com...6 > >f > >... > >lE > >> >> Whatever people have to do to pay the rent is their business.c > >> >D > >> >Not when they break very specific commitments to others in the process, > >itsH > >> >isn't.  And not when they lie in attempts to avoid being called to task > >for > >> >such treachery.  > >>J > >> Look, as a customer you have no real claim to find out why any deeper thanJ > >> what they're willing to tell you.  It's their business to run as they seedL > >> fit.  Once they tell you, you have the option to accept the explanation orB > >> reject it, but in the end you'll have to carry on in some way
 (includingH > >> completely leaving that vendor behind if that is your desire).  ButC > >> discussing it for years afterward is really a waste of effort.b > >tK > >Hmmm.  Based on the continuing interest in discussing it here by a great G > >many more people than myself, I'd say that they didn't feel it was ag wasteg > >any more than I do. >mL > Well, mostly it's just you and JF who carry this torch on-and-on-and-on ad
 > nauseum. >e > >,F > >As for myself, I feel that if I can make even just a few additional peopleL > >aware of why cHumPaq can't be trusted, and by so doing not only keep themG > >from potentially getting screwed but cost cHumPaq some profit in thepF > >bargain, than it's time well spent.  And I'll keep feeling that way eitherL > >until cHumPaq apologizes and makes some *substantial* effort to atone forJ > >their actions in 2001 or until there are no significant players left in theD7 > >corporation who were associated with that treachery.n > >K >nL > Right.  Somehow you feel they owe you an apology.(???)  Cool.  No audacity4 > there.  No real "treachery" either, just business. >nD > But do go on.  It's really good to dwell on the past indefinitely. >    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 12:06:37 GMTo' From: Colin Blake <colin@theblakes.com>o, Subject: Re: Mozilla... the new NULL process; Message-ID: <hHQSa.6059$KZ.2891839@news1.news.adelphia.net>   E To be chewing up 1 second every 15-20, you must be using a real slow oD system. If this is unacceptable you can adjust how enthusiastic the F polling is. There's a previous thread which describes how to do this. G Search Google Groups for vms_poll_timer_min and a date of October 2001.-   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 15:31:10 GMTr" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG, Subject: Re: Mozilla... the new NULL process0 Message-ID: <00A23304.10F766F9@SendSpamHere.ORG>  e In article <hHQSa.6059$KZ.2891839@news1.news.adelphia.net>, Colin Blake <colin@theblakes.com> writes: F >To be chewing up 1 second every 15-20, you must be using a real slow E >system. If this is unacceptable you can adjust how enthusiastic the tG >polling is. There's a previous thread which describes how to do this. oH >Search Google Groups for vms_poll_timer_min and a date of October 2001.  B Well then an AS1200 with 2 CPUs is hereforthwith to be known as a . real slow system and will be retagged RSS1200.  4 Thanks, I'll look for the vms_poll_timer_min thread. --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMe             5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" h   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Jul 2003 16:48:11 -00004 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]>, Subject: Re: Mozilla... the new NULL process4 Message-ID: <20030721164811.920.qmail@gacracker.org>  6 On Mon, 21 Jul 2003, VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:H >In article <hHQSa.6059$KZ.2891839@news1.news.adelphia.net>, Colin Blake ><colin@theblakes.com> writes:G >>To be chewing up 1 second every 15-20, you must be using a real slow oF >>system. If this is unacceptable you can adjust how enthusiastic the H >>polling is. There's a previous thread which describes how to do this. I >>Search Google Groups for vms_poll_timer_min and a date of October 2001.  > C >Well then an AS1200 with 2 CPUs is hereforthwith to be known as a f/ >real slow system and will be retagged RSS1200.a   Heh.  N Reminds me of something I wrote many moons ago that was called VSS.  The firstH version needed some tweaking for performance reasons, but the name, "VAX Shagging Software" stuck. :)     Doc. -- iK OpenVMS.         Eight out of ten hackers prefer *other* operating systems. K [New PGP Key - Get via finger]        http://deathrow.vistech.net/BOFH/doc/,   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:36:21 +0100 + From: John Laird <john@laird-towers.org.uk>n, Subject: Re: Mozilla... the new NULL process8 Message-ID: <r12ohv00vsgt600bm6gng6p9etf4vgnhpn@4ax.com>  C On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 15:31:10 GMT, VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:a  f >In article <hHQSa.6059$KZ.2891839@news1.news.adelphia.net>, Colin Blake <colin@theblakes.com> writes:G >>To be chewing up 1 second every 15-20, you must be using a real slow ,F >>system. If this is unacceptable you can adjust how enthusiastic the H >>polling is. There's a previous thread which describes how to do this. I >>Search Google Groups for vms_poll_timer_min and a date of October 2001.e >oC >Well then an AS1200 with 2 CPUs is hereforthwith to be known as a t/ >real slow system and will be retagged RSS1200.   0 How many VUPs equivalent is 5-6% of an AS1200 ?!   -- e John   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Jul 2003 07:35:12 -0700( From: stan@stanq.com (Stanley F. Quayle)' Subject: Re: New OpenVMS-to-Itanium FAQa= Message-ID: <faf7c984.0307210635.34958dd1@posting.google.com>w  8 "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@mac.com.spamfooler> wrote:  > > New OpenVMS to Itanium FAQs5M > > http://www.hp.com/products1/evolution/alpha_retaintrust/openvms/faqs.htmlm > >AJ > Item 19 occurs twice with somewhat different text, but both times seems C > to imply that the only option for PL/1 users is to migrate their  1 > applications to another language.  Kednos [...]i  D There's another choice, too.  Software Resources International has a* PL/1 to C++ translation service available.  F They're the ones who updated DECmigrate and wrote the Alpha-to-ItaniumB migrator for HP.  They're also the ones that created CHARON-11 and CHARON-VAX.s  5 [Another Shameless Plug (tm) from a CHARON reseller.]    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 06:12:46 GMT ; From: "John Gemignani, Jr." <jon-nope@thiswontworkossc.net>1 Subject: Re: NFS Authenticatione; Message-ID: <yvLSa.6013$KZ.2787814@news1.news.adelphia.net>A  A "George Cornelius" <cornelius@encompasserve.org> wrote in message - news:z9JHvIbBjcWp@eisner.encompasserve.org...t> > In article <58ba0101.0307180322.6703701a@posting.google.com>< > , andrew.rycroft@intrinsitech.com (Andrew Rycroft) writes:I > > I am trying to use the microsoft UNIX services for Windows product torF > > mount and access the NFS services on an OpenVMS system. I am using% > > OpenVMS v7.3, and UCX v5.1 eco 4.C > > E > > The connection does not seem to authenticate with the TCPIP proxypI > > database. From the PC I can mount the NFS service, but not browse it, ' > > i.e. I cannot see any of the files.i > >tE > > If I look at the nfsstat the server nfs statistics shows a lot of G > > weakauth, but I can find no information on what this counter means.A > >-E > > The PC connects with UID -2, GID -1. Any proxies I add in the UCXn* > > proxy database seem to have no effect. >tI > You may want to find a way to use real UID's and GID's.  TCPIP ServicesaF > (UCX) uses the -1 and -2 values as special cases and that may be theI > source of your difficulties.  I normally use a client such as Chameleon L > NFS which at initial connect actually supplies a VMS username and passwordG > to a separate 'PCNFS' authentication daemon which then uses the proxyoI > database in reverse to supply the PC with a UID/GID pair to be used for L > subsequent file accesses.  [There doesn't seem to be any particular reasonL > for doing this, though, other than adding an extra layer of authenticationC > to give the illusion that the flimsy NFS security is really doingi something.]t >MI > If your client does not use this PCNFS scheme, it probably has a way to E > emulate a Unix client, the obvious way to do that being to assign ahC > fixed UID/GID pair to the user (or to the PC itself), then havinghE > subsequent file accesses supply that information to the NFS server.e >rJ > You should check the TCPIP services proxy listing - $ TCPIP SHOW PROXY - andoJ > verify that the proxies of interest are cached, i.e., have a 'D' flag in theo/ > second field of the proxy display.  You want:r > 6 >  APP1MGR       ND      1001   10  host1.mydomain.com >e >   and not? >a6 >  APP1MGR       N       1001   10  host1.mydomain.com >aH > It is probably a good idea to have symbolic hostnames in your proxies,I > but HP recommends that you then have static definitions for those hosts9F > in your local hostname database - i.e., defined via $ TCPIP SET HOSTG > and displayed via $ TCPIP SHOW HOST/LOCAL .  This of course makes NFSpJ > access more efficient, but it also avoids some nasty problems at startupF > time if you have a number of nodes in the proxy database and the dns > server is not accessible.h >rJ > I have found TCPIP 5 proxies to be even more difficult to deal with thanI > those of version 4, for they seem to require a unique GID for any givenw UID,H > meaning you probably have to have your UID/GID definitions coordinated amongaH > all prospective  client machines or you will have proxies that fail to loadJ > (getting 'duplicate key' errors). My problem may be that I am completelyG > misunderstanding the purpose of providing a GID as part of the proxy,mK > but it certainly is an ordeal for me to get the proxies right these days.  >sL > For detailed information about NFS client connection/access problems, lookH > in SYS$SYSDEVICE:[TCPIP$NFS] .  You'll find two kinds of log files for eachK > of the two NFS server functions, MOUNTD and NFSD.  The <whatever>_RUN.LOGtG > logging files show the initial startup (and possibly shutdown) of the>G > deamons, while the <whatever>_<nodename>.LOG logging files should, in D > theory at least, be where the daemons log information about clientD > access attempts.  If you are using PCNFS, you'll want to check itsK > log files as well to see if you are having problems with that preliminarys > authentication stage.c >o >a > --; > George Cornelius              cornelius@encompasserve.org 2 >                               cornelius@mayo.edu >i  > > Any suggestions appreciated. > >o
 > > Thanks
 > > Andrew  J Use George's scheme; either PCNFS (to get a UID/GID pair) or find a way toL assign them.  Using PCNFS means that you need a username and password to get0 the pair, which actually is a good way to do it.  D Note that UID and/or GID values of -1 are not acceptable.  In the V2L protocol it indicates the absence of a value.  That is why -2 is used and it4 typically means "nobody", or not a mappable UID/GID.   -John    ------------------------------    Date: 21 Jul 2003 11:39:37 -05004 From: cornelius@encompasserve.org (George Cornelius) Subject: Re: NFS Authentication 3 Message-ID: <Q1wek$cvPmFL@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  y In article <yvLSa.6013$KZ.2787814@news1.news.adelphia.net>, "John Gemignani, Jr." <jon-nope@thiswontworkossc.net> writes:  > C > "George Cornelius" <cornelius@encompasserve.org> wrote in message3/ > news:z9JHvIbBjcWp@eisner.encompasserve.org...:J >> You may want to find a way to use real UID's and GID's.  TCPIP ServicesG >> (UCX) uses the -1 and -2 values as special cases and that may be thecJ >> source of your difficulties.  I normally use a client such as Chameleon  I No endorsement of Chameleon implied.  I have had some problems with it as H well, and have heard that there are others that may work better with VMS# these days (Hummingbird, perhaps?).   M >> NFS which at initial connect actually supplies a VMS username and password-H >> to a separate 'PCNFS' authentication daemon which then uses the proxyJ >> database in reverse to supply the PC with a UID/GID pair to be used forM >> subsequent file accesses.  [There doesn't seem to be any particular reason0M >> for doing this, though, other than adding an extra layer of authentication2P >> to give the illusion that the flimsy NFS security is really doing something.]   [...]i  K >> I have found TCPIP 5 proxies to be even more difficult to deal with thanyO >> those of version 4, for they seem to require a unique GID for any given UID,>O >> meaning you probably have to have your UID/GID definitions coordinated among N >> all prospective  client machines or you will have proxies that fail to loadK >> (getting 'duplicate key' errors). My problem may be that I am completelynH >> misunderstanding the purpose of providing a GID as part of the proxy,L >> but it certainly is an ordeal for me to get the proxies right these days.  L > Use George's scheme; either PCNFS (to get a UID/GID pair) or find a way toN > assign them.  Using PCNFS means that you need a username and password to get2 > the pair, which actually is a good way to do it.  K Hey, I'm now a Unix system administrator as well [yesterday I couldn't speliI sysadmin, now I _are_ one! ]  and PCNFS daemons are getting hard to find.aJ My complaint is not about UCX or the PCNFS layer, just that the underlyingE NFS authentication - the UID/GID/hostname triple - is extremely weak,tH especially given that in the Unix world UID/GID pairs are not privileged information.  H With regard to uniqueness of UID/GID in proxies, I had problems going toF UCX/TCPIP Services V5 in that I might have been able to have these twoA proxies under V4, but they would seem to be in conflict under V5:p    7     APP1MGR       ND      1001   10  host1.mydomain.come        and  7     APP2USR       ND      1001   37  host2.mydomain.comt  (J Actually, I believe there may be a dual conflict in that UID 1001 probablyJ needs to be associated with the same VMS username as well as with the same GID in the two proxies.   K For PCNFS this is OK but for casual access from Linux desktops, etc., I hadtJ been used to not having to coordinate UID's and GID's with the rest of the world.  G Also, the change does not seem to be documented anywhere - while V4 wasiL possibly more relaxed than the documented behavior, V5 errs in the direction4 of enforcing an overly rigid a set of mapping rules.  K I suppose the fact that the proxy database must map uniquely in the reverse L direction[1], VMS_username/remote_hostname to UID/GID, is part of the reasonI for the rigid mapping, but it doesn't seem to explain it all.  Perhaps ittK is the structure of the in-memory lookup tables, a structure quite possibly K ported over fresh under V5 from Tru64 Unix.  Whatever it is, the product noh3 longer supports the degrees of freedom it once did.      --9 George Cornelius              cornelius@encompasserve.orge0                               cornelius@mayo.edu  I  [1] I should say there are two ways the proxy can be used in what I havesL      called reverse order, and those are: (a) PCNFS access and (b) VMS as anK      NFS client.  Both might be considered to be equivalent, I suppose, but H      each is a potential conflict when you allow relaxed proxies, and inB      particular when you allow many-to-one mapping from Unix-styleJ      authentication to VMS usernames.  Such reverse lookup ambiguities areI      easily resolved in other contexts, generally with a first-match rule K      (cf. RMS indexed files or ACL's).  Unfortunately, first-match requiressI      that the order of entry of the user's definitions be maintained, and-K      it is clear that UCX essentially sorts entries by database key as theysF      go into the proxy database and has no provision for an additional@      key or pointer to track sequential order of entry creation.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:03:51 +0100p" From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>4 Subject: Obsolete cross compilers: where did you go?' Message-ID: <3F1BBA87.4030506@spam.com>g  D I'm investigating what you all did with your good old Intel cross=20I compilers running on VAX/VMS to produce embedded software for embarked=20nJ computers. I'm talking of programs written in PLM186, PLM386 and other C =   sources for the same targets.   2 Are you still using them? If not, what did you do?  B Did you move them to Alpha via CHARON-VAX or any other software=20 emulation solution?f  ; Did you find OpenVMS/Alpha versions of the cross compilers?p  E Did you address the obsolescence issue of VAX/VMS when going Itanium?h  F Did some of you contact the numerous editors making cross compilers=20I (Intel, BSO, Tasking, Altium, etc.) to ask them to port their products=20m) to Itanium? Or to sell you their sources?s   So many questions... Thanks,t   D. --=20h- Didier Morandi sarl au capital de 8 000 eurosy                     Tout VMS-   19 chemin de la Butte 31400 Toulouse Francer/   T=E9l: 33(0)5 6120 1964 Fax: 33(0)5 6154 1928n&           http://www.didiermorandi.com$             RCS Toulouse 448 694 851   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Jul 2003 09:26:00 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)e8 Subject: Re: Obsolete cross compilers: where did you go?3 Message-ID: <yTFewh+K7lVC@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  L In article <3F1BBA87.4030506@spam.com>, Didier Morandi <no@spam.com> writes:F > I'm investigating what you all did with your good old Intel cross=20K > compilers running on VAX/VMS to produce embedded software for embarked=20sL > computers. I'm talking of programs written in PLM186, PLM386 and other C = >  > sources for the same targets.g  9 I know of a VMS customer in this area still using SD-Ada.hF I believe it is supported by EDS, who have no intention of porting it.  B So that customer is stuck on VAX, and perhaps cannot even consider= VAX emulators due to certification issues for their industry.g   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:05:38 -0400 * From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com>8 Subject: Re: Obsolete cross compilers: where did you go?/ Message-ID: <3F1BC902.12704.19E44056@localhost>   . On 21 Jul 2003 at 9:26, Larry Kilgallen wrote:; > I know of a VMS customer in this area still using SD-Ada. H > I believe it is supported by EDS, who have no intention of porting it. > D > So that customer is stuck on VAX, and perhaps cannot even consider? > VAX emulators due to certification issues for their industry.s  D If the military has no issues with moving to CHARON-VAX, I'd expect 4 that industry certification wouldn't be a problem...  
 --Stan Quayle  Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------C Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363  Fax: +1 614 868-1671l1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147e= Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.come   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 17:32:53 GMTn6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)8 Subject: Re: Obsolete cross compilers: where did you go?5 Message-ID: <9tVSa.287790$1F6.2928512@news.chello.at>y  L In article <3F1BBA87.4030506@spam.com>, Didier Morandi <no@spam.com> writes:B >I'm investigating what you all did with your good old Intel crossG >compilers running on VAX/VMS to produce embedded software for embarked0I >computers. I'm talking of programs written in PLM186, PLM386 and other Cc >sources for the same targets. > 3 >Are you still using them? If not, what did you do?d  H I was using them (not exactly, I was using ASM86, CREF86, LIB86, LINK86,H OH86, PLM86, and only partly CC86 and PLM286 - are you about the PLM186,H I thought the PLM86 included the 186 ?) in one of my previous lifes as aM testsystem engineer (1983-1987). I then moved on to VMS system management ;-)   @ >Did you move them to Alpha via CHARON-VAX or any other software >emulation solution?  ' There were no CHARON-VAX at that times.r  < >Did you find OpenVMS/Alpha versions of the cross compilers?  < No. I did VEST them myself successfully, about a decade ago.  F >Did you address the obsolescence issue of VAX/VMS when going Itanium?  K No. I solved the "migration from VAX" problem for myself (to get rid of thenL slow/big/hungry/expensive VAXes) and for the engineers (to let them continueL their work without official approval) at my previous employer. This employerM 'solved' the problem later alltogether by quitting all the engineers and mostc8 of the data departments (and the manufacturing and ...).  D >Did some of you contact the numerous editors making cross compilersG >(Intel, BSO, Tasking, Altium, etc.) to ask them to port their productse* >to Itanium? Or to sell you their sources?   No (and I had only INTEL ones).oH But, the compilers were from INTEL, so a migration to ITANIC should make" them happy, don't you think so ;-)   -- o Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERn% Network and OpenVMS system specialistP E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 10:37:05 +0100  From: Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net>n Subject: Re: OpenVms Backup 4 Message-ID: <bfgc5o$sqb$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk>   Steve Bainbridge wrote:o [...snip...] >  > 	 > Maurix,o > E > You specified "/ignore=nobackup" when performing the backup and thetC > pagefile.sys file usually has a nobackup attribute set, so it waso > never saved to the tape. > H > This should not be a problem and a new pagefile should of been created > when you re-booted.w  @ Nope Steve, you've misunderstood the /Ignore=NoBackup qualifier.: It's exactly opposite to what you've interpreted it to be.   $ help backup /ignoref   ...n  F       NOBACKUP         Saves or copies both the file header record andE                        the contents of files marked with the NOBACKUP A                        flag by the /NOBACKUP qualifier of the DCLiC                        command SET FILE. If you do not specify this G                        option, BACKUP saves only the file header record >                        of files marked with the NOBACKUP flag.  D As for the original query, I'd say there was no pagefile on the disk to start with.  	 Roy Omondn Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Jul 2003 02:20:25 -07007 From: stephen_bainbridge@yahoo.co.uk (Steve Bainbridge)o Subject: Re: OpenVms Backuph= Message-ID: <a48f6f51.0307210120.5f1a5d1f@posting.google.com>t  [ "maurix" <mizioduck@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<bffpej$lcq$1@e3k.asi.ansaldo.it>...t > Hi! : > I need a help with OpenVms 6.2 on a Digital DEC Station. > D > I've done a system disk backup on tape with the following command: > G > $$$ backup/image/ignore=nobackup/log dka300: mka500:name.bck/init/rewe > N > Then I restored this tape on another DEC and when I reboot appears a message > like:a >  > No PAGEFILE foundc >  > Do you know why? > < > Thank you for your help and forgive me for my english..... >  > bye    Maurix,l  C You specified "/ignore=nobackup" when performing the backup and theWA pagefile.sys file usually has a nobackup attribute set, so it wasu never saved to the tape.  F This should not be a problem and a new pagefile should of been created when you re-booted.e   Regards, Stevee   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:30:46 +0100s* From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]> Subject: Re: OpenVms Backupa' Message-ID: <bfgfic$cbp$1@lore.csc.com>i   Steve Bainbridge wrote:  > ] > "maurix" <mizioduck@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<bffpej$lcq$1@e3k.asi.ansaldo.it>...  > > Hi!i< > > I need a help with OpenVms 6.2 on a Digital DEC Station. > >/F > > I've done a system disk backup on tape with the following command: > >oI > > $$$ backup/image/ignore=nobackup/log dka300: mka500:name.bck/init/rewn > >IP > > Then I restored this tape on another DEC and when I reboot appears a message	 > > like:e > >a > > No PAGEFILE foundl > >  > > Do you know why? > >    > E > You specified "/ignore=nobackup" when performing the backup and theyC > pagefile.sys file usually has a nobackup attribute set, so it wasn > never saved to the tape.  G Oops. /IGNORE=NOBACKUP means that it actually DOES copy the data to thea backup saveset.u  F Ideally, you want to use /NOALIAS in your backup command as well, thisF is particularly true is using a later booted OpenVMS CD to restore theH data, the data may not be restored as expected in the alias directories.  D In your case, I expect you're seeing a message "PRIMARY PAGEFILE NOTG FOUND" this means there is no PAGEFILE.SYS in the system root directoryrA (SYS$SPECIFIC:[SYSEXE]) but a file could be installed which is intG another directory by almost any of the start up procedures, but ideallytD in SYPAGSWPFILES.COM. In your case you may have a file specificationH problem, did you see an error reported on the console trying to locate aH pagefile? Perhaps the physical device name being used (bad practice) hasG changed now, or the volume label if using DISK$label to locate the file  has changed.  C A $ SH MEM/FILES from the original system should help in diagnosis.e   -- t? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencesn nclews at csc dot comd   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Jul 2003 07:31:16 GMT3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann)  Subject: Re: OpenVms Backup 0 Message-ID: <bfg4s4$3q7$3@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  V In article <bffpej$lcq$1@e3k.asi.ansaldo.it>, "maurix" <mizioduck@hotmail.com> writes: >Hi!9 >I need a help with OpenVms 6.2 on a Digital DEC Station.G > C >I've done a system disk backup on tape with the following command:r >aF >$$$ backup/image/ignore=nobackup/log dka300: mka500:name.bck/init/rew >cM >Then I restored this tape on another DEC and when I reboot appears a messagee >like: >s >No PAGEFILE found >u >Do you know why?x  M You used an inappropriate BACKUP command. All the files that were open duringaN the time of the backup have not been backed up. Thus, you have no pagefile, noL logfiles, no queue-database,... . You should have used "/IGNORE=INTERLOCK" .L Of course, in this case you may get inconsistent files but usually this doesI the trick. The proper method would be to boot from CD and then backup theo unused system disk.    Regards,    Christoph Gartmann.   -- >E  Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452>  ImmunbiologieA  Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.dew  D-79011  Freiburg, Germanyt9                http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/menue.html    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 12:18:26 GMTnA From: "Colin Butcher" <colin_DOT.butcher_AT@xdelta_DOT.co_DOT.uk>D Subject: Re: OpenVms Backup4= Message-ID: <mSQSa.1315$E93.12717295@news-text.cableinet.net>u  I Best way to move a system disc is to do an image backup using stand-alone I backup. This process is a little different between VAX and Alpha, but theeI principles are the same. Stand-alone means that the OS is not running, som& all the files are closed and inactive.   if VAX thenlG - create stand-alone backup on the system disc ($ @sys$update:stabackit  sys$sysdevice: <syse.sysexe>)  - shut down systemA - boot stand alone backup (>>>B/R5:E0000000 DKA300:) or boot fromi distribution CDc endifn  
 if ALPHA thenoI - create stand-alone environment on another disc ($ @sys$update:stabackitt! will take you to the right place)> - shut down system8 - boot other disc, eg: >>>B -FL E,0 <disc>, or boot from distribution CDe endifa   BACKUP DKA300:/IMAGE/NOALIAS8 <tape><saveset>/SAVE/BLOCK=32768/INIT/IGNORE=LABEL/NOLOG  E Alternatively you could boot the system MINIMUM (shut down, boot into1E SYSBOOT [B/R5:1 on VAX, B -FL 0,1 on ALPHA], set STARTUP_P1 to "MIN",iK continue), bring the devices online (SYSGEN AUTO ALL on VAX, SYSMAN IO AUTO L ALL on ALPHA), then do the backup, but with the additional /IGNORE=INTERLOCK
 qualifier.  I Not a great plan to backup a live running system disc online - unless youEE have no choice but to do so - in which case use the /IGNORE=INTERLOCKp
 qualifier.  L /IGNORE=NOBACKUP is not what you want to be doing - it will copy the data inG the page & swap files which is unnecessary, takes time and wastes tape.a  J Another (faster) way would be to do a disc to disc image backup if you can5 attach the new system disc to the old system somehow.u  A -----------------------------------------------------------------  Hope this helps, Colin.e) colin DOT butcher AT xdelta DOT co DOT ukyL Systems Archaeologist - Investigation & troubleshooting of older systems and	 networks.y   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Jul 2003 05:40:14 -0700( From: josef.rudyk@commerzbank.com (joru) Subject: Re: OpenVms Backupe= Message-ID: <2b109804.0307210440.514dbddc@posting.google.com>   
 Hi Maurix,  ; the reason for this message is, that you used the qualifieraA /IGNOR=NOBACKUP. Page- and swapfiles are marked as NOBACKUP as it 0 makes no sense to back them up and restore them.    Just create a new pagefile with:  
 MCR SYSGEN: SYSGEN>CREATE/CONTIGOUS/SIZE=xxxxxx disk:[dir]pagefile.sys  B replace XXXXXXX with the size in 512Byte blocks that your pagefile0 should be and reboot or intsall it by executing:  - SYSGEN>INSTAL disk:[dir]pagefile.sys/PAGEFILEr   Regards Joe0   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 13:44:01 GMTg3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond)m Subject: Re: OpenVms Backupp/ Message-ID: <B6SSa.469$My.396@news.cpqcorp.net>t  ( In article <bfgfic$cbp$1@lore.csc.com>, , Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]> writes:  G > $$$ backup/image/ignore=nobackup/log dka300: mka500:name.bck/init/rewu  B >Ideally, you want to use /NOALIAS in your backup command as well,  F Existing backup documentation is confusing w.r.t. /IMAGE and /NOALIAS.G My presonal recommendation is this:  Do NOT use /ALIAS or /NOALIAS withs BACKUP /IMAGE.    H My understanding is that this documentation (and on-line HELP) are being improoved for OpenVMS V7.3-2.    -- eJ       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 13:47:19 GMTd3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond)- Subject: Re: OpenVms Backup:/ Message-ID: <H9SSa.470$My.202@news.cpqcorp.net>a  1 In article <bfg4s4$3q7$3@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>, :5 gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann) writes:-  6 >     ... . You should have used "/IGNORE=INTERLOCK" .  H As often discussed on this group,  /IGNORE=INTERLOCK should only be used@ if you do not care whether or not the resulting backup is valid.K Usually, you do are about the validity of an image backup of a system disk.n   -- mJ       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 14:00:18 GMTA3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond)e Subject: Re: OpenVms Backupo/ Message-ID: <SlSSa.471$My.153@news.cpqcorp.net>    In article <mSQSa.1315$E93.12717295@news-text.cableinet.net>, "Colin Butcher" <colin_DOT.butcher_AT@xdelta_DOT.co_DOT.uk> writes:-  J >Best way to move a system disc is to do an image backup using stand-aloneF >backup. This process is a little different between VAX and Alpha, ...  < You can also do this by booting the operating sysgem CD-ROM.  ? On OpenVMS Alpha, this gives you an OpenVMS system that you canw use to backup to system disk.c  A On older version of OpenVMS VAX this gives you StandAlone Backup;gF on recent version of OpenVMS VAX you can boot either StandAlone Backup+ or OpenVMS from the operating sytem CD-ROM.P  ; See the Upgrade and Installatio Guide for more information.e   -- sJ       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 14:14:09 GMT A From: "Colin Butcher" <colin_DOT.butcher_AT@xdelta_DOT.co_DOT.uk>s Subject: Re: OpenVms Backuph= Message-ID: <RySSa.1400$Ey4.13300794@news-text.cableinet.net>0  L Absolutely right - that's why I also say "or boot from the distribution CD"!  L However, if you've installed many patches and ended up with modified driversK etc. then building a S/A backup bootable disc is probably a better solution J as you'll then incorporate those updates rather than reverting to the baseI system. Can be important, especially when adding newer hardware - such aseE the SCSI tape & disc driver updates on VAX some years back. It's alsoe usually a lot faster to boot.   A -----------------------------------------------------------------> Hope this helps, Colin.t) colin DOT butcher AT xdelta DOT co DOT ukyL Systems Archaeologist - Investigation & troubleshooting of older systems and	 networks.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 15:27:03 +0100i* From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]> Subject: Re: OpenVms BackupB' Message-ID: <bfgtdb$gt1$1@lore.csc.com>d   Charlie Hammond wrote: > ) > In article <bfgfic$cbp$1@lore.csc.com>,n. > Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]> writes: > I > > $$$ backup/image/ignore=nobackup/log dka300: mka500:name.bck/init/rewa > D > >Ideally, you want to use /NOALIAS in your backup command as well, > H > Existing backup documentation is confusing w.r.t. /IMAGE and /NOALIAS.I > My presonal recommendation is this:  Do NOT use /ALIAS or /NOALIAS with  > BACKUP /IMAGE. > J > My understanding is that this documentation (and on-line HELP) are being > improoved for OpenVMS V7.3-2.b  > I don't dispute the comment about documentation, however to myC bemusement, unless you use the same version of backup to restore anfF image that it was saved with, /NOALIAS allows earlier operating systemE created backups to be restored easily using later versions of backup.t  D e.g. a 6.2 image backup restored with 7.3 will not restore the aliasG structure without some fiddling about (a technical description of usingb ANAL/DISK and SET FILE/ENTER!)   -- l? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences- nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 15:34:34 +0100u* From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]> Subject: Re: OpenVms Backup9' Message-ID: <bfgtrd$h1c$1@lore.csc.com>h   Charlie Hammond wrote: > 2 > In article <bfg4s4$3q7$3@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>,7 > gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann) writes:n > 8 > >     ... . You should have used "/IGNORE=INTERLOCK" . > J > As often discussed on this group,  /IGNORE=INTERLOCK should only be usedB > if you do not care whether or not the resulting backup is valid.M > Usually, you do are about the validity of an image backup of a system disk.o  ; Sorry Charlie, you're coming in for a bit of stick here...!t  C Straw poll time, how many have used /ign=inter and ended up with ann UNBOOTABLE disk?  H Count me as a never, over say 12 years of doing it reasonably regularly.  E Christoph was absolutely right, the lack of /IGN=INTER meant the filetG was open, so backup did not lay it on the tape, contents or not... FromoH the original post, I'm mildly amused that it even booted. I missed it in my first reply.A  H I'm a little worried that some think that /IGN=NOBACKUP means it doesn't back the file up.1   --  ? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot como   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Jul 2003 10:21:14 -0500 From: briggs@encompasserve.org Subject: Re: OpenVms Backup-3 Message-ID: <Ai0IgM0cnbed@eisner.encompasserve.org>0  e In article <H9SSa.470$My.202@news.cpqcorp.net>, hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond) writes:e3 > In article <bfg4s4$3q7$3@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>,  7 > gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann) writes:I > 7 >>     ... . You should have used "/IGNORE=INTERLOCK" .l > J > As often discussed on this group,  /IGNORE=INTERLOCK should only be usedB > if you do not care whether or not the resulting backup is valid.M > Usually, you do are about the validity of an image backup of a system disk.   K The alternative point of view is that you should only use /IGNORE=INTERLOCK F if you are able to live with the possibility that files that were openE for write during the BACKUP process may be corrupt after the restore.R  7 If you look at the log file for the backup and see thato  T %BACKUP-W-ACCONFLICT, DSA1:[SYS0.SYSEXE]PAGEFILE.SYS;1 is open for write by another  userM %BACKUP-W-ACCONFLICT, DSA1:[SYS0.SYSMGR]ACCOUNTNG.DAT;1 is open for write by   another userL %BACKUP-W-ACCONFLICT, DSA1:[SYS0.SYSMAINT]ERRLOG.SYS;1 is open for write by  another user  G then you have very little reason for concern.  The data in PAGEFILE.SYSe? is irrelevant and if your log files get truncated, that's stillt7 probably better than having them eliminated altogether.e   If you see:   E %BACKUP-W-ACCONFLICT, DSA1:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.SYSEXE]QMAN$MASTER.DAT ...:  C then you need to consider that your queues might be toast and wouldZB have to be re-created after any /IMAGE restore of the system disk.   and if you see:h  B %BACKUP-W-ACCONFLICT, DSA101:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.SYSEXE]SYSUAF.DAT ...  ? then you need to be aware that your user authorization database>$ may be suspect it has been restored.  E If you see other open files then you probably have other applicationseB running on your system disk.  Consider shutting those applications5 down or investigating online backup support for them.s    A It's not that you _don't care_ about the integrity of your systemo? disk.  It's that you may consider the chance of needing to redo 9 your queues or to restore an older copy of your SYSUAF ann@ acceptable consequence of a decision to keep the system up 24x7.  ? Trade-offs.  There are always trade-offs.  The older I get, the B less I see things in black and white.  And more in shades of grey.  F I've done a lot of online backups of my system disks.  And I've had toB restore from those backups.  In my experience, the above files are= the ones that are "open for write by another user".  My queueo@ database has been toasted consistently every time I've had to do/ a restore.  My SYSUAF has never been corrupted.e   	John Briggs   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 15:31:49 GMT.3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond)  Subject: Re: OpenVms Backupr/ Message-ID: <FHTSa.493$SG.332@news.cpqcorp.net>O  T In article <bfgtrd$h1c$1@lore.csc.com>, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]> writes: >Charlie Hammond wrote:-  K >> As often discussed on this group,  /IGNORE=INTERLOCK should only be used@C >> if you do not care whether or not the resulting backup is valid. N >> Usually, you do are about the validity of an image backup of a system disk. >n< >Sorry Charlie, you're coming in for a bit of stick here...!  B Since the original poster seemed to have some confusion, I thought( this point should be strongly made here.  G >...how many have used /ign=inter and ended up with an UNBOOTABLE disk?I  % An unbootable disk is probably rare. oJ More common is an inconsistent or completely invalid (unusable) data file.   --  J       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Jul 03 19:44:05 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)t Subject: Re: OpenVms Backups) Message-ID: <hCnLfCf6URU9@elias.decus.ch>G  w In article <a48f6f51.0307210120.5f1a5d1f@posting.google.com>, stephen_bainbridge@yahoo.co.uk (Steve Bainbridge) writes:e] > "maurix" <mizioduck@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<bffpej$lcq$1@e3k.asi.ansaldo.it>...a >> Hi!; >> I need a help with OpenVms 6.2 on a Digital DEC Station.  >> aE >> I've done a system disk backup on tape with the following command:e >>  H >> $$$ backup/image/ignore=nobackup/log dka300: mka500:name.bck/init/rew >>  O >> Then I restored this tape on another DEC and when I reboot appears a message  >> like: >> f >> No PAGEFILE found >> ' >> Do you know why?i >>  = >> Thank you for your help and forgive me for my english.....y >>   >> bye > 	 > Maurix,v > E > You specified "/ignore=nobackup" when performing the backup and the C > pagefile.sys file usually has a nobackup attribute set, so it wasa > never saved to the tape. >    Not what the help says to me:n   $ help backup /ignoreI .I .a .tE      NOBACKUP         Saves or copies both the file header record andsD                       the contents of files marked with the NOBACKUP@                       flag by the /NOBACKUP qualifier of the DCLB                       command SET FILE. If you do not specify thisF                       option, BACKUP saves only the file header record=                       of files marked with the NOBACKUP flag.o   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Jul 03 19:46:03 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)i Subject: Re: OpenVms Backup ) Message-ID: <NDqnIWuofaWj@elias.decus.ch>i  V In article <bfgc5o$sqb$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk>, Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net> writes: > Steve Bainbridge wrote:e > [...snip...] >> S >> A
 >> Maurix, >> sF >> You specified "/ignore=nobackup" when performing the backup and theD >> pagefile.sys file usually has a nobackup attribute set, so it was >> never saved to the tape.i >>  I >> This should not be a problem and a new pagefile should of been createdt >> when you re-booted. > B > Nope Steve, you've misunderstood the /Ignore=NoBackup qualifier.< > It's exactly opposite to what you've interpreted it to be. >  > $ help backup /ignore  >  > ...  > H >       NOBACKUP         Saves or copies both the file header record andG >                        the contents of files marked with the NOBACKUPnC >                        flag by the /NOBACKUP qualifier of the DCLcE >                        command SET FILE. If you do not specify this I >                        option, BACKUP saves only the file header recordk@ >                        of files marked with the NOBACKUP flag. > F > As for the original query, I'd say there was no pagefile on the disk > to start with. > A At a guess, the pagefile on the original system had been moved to>
 another disk.i   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:17:06 -0400s* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>+ Subject: Re: Opteron motherboard maker soldg2 Message-ID: <LtWdnUiC8eZDeoaiU-KYvw@metrocast.net>  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:$yh0guK6bFI6@eisner.encompasserve.org...e   ...i  L > http://www.crn.com/sections/BreakingNews/dailyarchives.asp?ArticleID=43370 >l? > Gibson said the Newisys relationship with AMD will not affectn
 Sanmina-SCI's K > relationship with Intel. "We're bringing (Newisys) in for OEM customers,"  he > said.   E It seems to have escaped your notice that the above is *exactly* what K Newisys was created to do in the first place:  it's just now got a lot more- wood behind its arrowhead.  I > "We have no plan to brand our systems. We are also looking at using then= > Newisys team to develop Intel-based systems in the future."J > 7 > Apparently they do shell out money to acquire talent.1  G No:  they shelled out money to acquire a running company, including its:J talent.  And have stated that they intend to *keep* it running in the same
 direction.     After all,D > as the Inquirer pointed out, looks like the Newisys folks will get  > to design Intel kit after all.  I Or not:  that's what ''we are looking at..." means, Rob - possibly just asD sop to Intel to keep them from getting snippy about their supporting Opteron.     But doesn't that make sense?B > After all, maybe Opteron is 2% of the server market 2 years from; > now, doesn't make sense to ignore the other 90%+ segment.   I They're *already* not ignoring the Intel market, Rob:  they hardly neededsJ Newisys for that.  What they're likely hoping is that Opteron will be moreI like 25% - 35% of the server market 2 years from now - because if it werehL only going to be 2% Newisys wouldn't have been worth anything like what they presumably paid for it.t   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 17:00:01 GMTa9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> + Subject: Re: Opteron motherboard maker soldo. Message-ID: <l_USa.506$VM.85@news.cpqcorp.net>  5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messageo, news:FPednQ3LhOkTPoSiXTWJjQ@metrocast.net... >m > >gA > > Terms of the agreement were not disclosed.  That $100 millionf1 > > sounds good, but it may have been a lot less.r >eJ > Exactly what part of the phrase 'the better part of $100 million' do youI > find difficult to understand?  The point was that if the investors wereeL > happy, they presumably got considerably more than the $55 million they putL > in.  For VCs, that likely means *at least* something close to a 50% return" > (over the three years involved). >a   Spin. Spin. Spin. Spin.  Spin. Spin. Spin. Spin.r  H The only thing consistent is that you draw conclusions without facts, onJ pretty much any subject.  Yup.  Sure, I "guess" $55 million is the "betterL part" of $100 million, just like the "recession ended in November 2001" is aE true statement (as long as you can be detached from reality like mosteG economists).  For all we know, what might have made investors happy wasaG getting out with the shirts on their backs.  We don't have *any* of theNH facts to draw *any* conclusion.  We have a press release, and a Inquirer rumor rag article.   > >e# > > Again, the Statesman says this:i > >lH > > "No sales price was disclosed for the transaction, but Hester hinted thatH > > Newisys' venture investors and its employee shareholders made money. > >iE > > "The venture guys are very happy, and I am very happy," he said."s > >oD > > So does that mean the company sold for $55 million + $10 millionI > > to keep the VC guys happy? That $100 million of yours is very suspect2 >d7 > It's your reading ability that's suspect, I'm afraid.o >i  K Remember that $55 million + $1 = Bill's better part of $100 million.  There - is precious little information to go on here.s  I > > as you beat Business Week, Yahoo, the Statesman and others to what it B > > was sold for.  $65 million for engineering talent and designs,I > > pending orders may not be a bad gamble. Besides, they may have gainedwC > > $20 million in cash in the deal.  Sanmina has to try something.i > I > And what they've chosen to try is to leverage the fortunes of a partnereI > whose prospects they likely understand considerably better than you do.e >s  H How do you know what they've done?  You on the BOD for Sanmina?  What weI have is a press release, and an Inquirer rumor article.  Hardly somethings* worth making strong claims on either side.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 04:01:29 -04006) From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" <DAGwyn@null.net>o$ Subject: Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates0 Message-ID: <FIednfoUPohOAIaiU-KYgg@comcast.com>   paramucho wrote:F > That's why RT-11 went through all the pain of a position-independentE > KMON -- so that they could keep it in memory as long as possible to B > reduce trips back to reload it from DECtape. It wasn't necessary. > performance-wise with a disk-based platform.  9 RT-11 was *not* a disk-based platform.  Of course you hadc; to load it from somewhere, but once loaded it was resident.a7 That is obviously important for a real-time system.  In 6 fact, most contemporary PDP-11 operating systems, Unix# included, kept the kernel resident.i   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 08:42:16 GMTe From: ian@hammo.com (paramucho),$ Subject: Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates2 Message-ID: <3f46a6a1.31545088@news.supernews.com>  5 On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 04:01:29 -0400, "Douglas A. Gwyn"r <DAGwyn@null.net> wrote:   >paramucho wrote:pG >> That's why RT-11 went through all the pain of a position-independent F >> KMON -- so that they could keep it in memory as long as possible toC >> reduce trips back to reload it from DECtape. It wasn't necessaryi/ >> performance-wise with a disk-based platform.: >e: >RT-11 was *not* a disk-based platform.  Of course you had< >to load it from somewhere, but once loaded it was resident.8 >That is obviously important for a real-time system.  In7 >fact, most contemporary PDP-11 operating systems, Unixa$ >included, kept the kernel resident.  @ RT-11 *could* act like a memory-resident system, but only if youD obeyed some pretty strict memory usage guide lines. If you requestedF all background memory then the system would mark KMON non-resident and@ it would be reloaded from the system device the next time it wasC required. The same sort of thing happened with the USR. In terms oftF Unix, KMON was equivalent to the Shell application, which was also not memory resident.     -- Ianp" Impressive If Haughty - Q Magazine   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Jul 2003 09:16:25 GMT/ From: Thomas Dickey <dickey@saltmine.radix.net>0$ Subject: Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates* Message-ID: <bfgb19$c91$1@news1.radix.net>  / In comp.os.vms paramucho <ian@hammo.com> wrote:24 > On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 13:31:28 -0400, Glenn Everhart" > <Everhart-nospam@gce.com> wrote:  D >>OS/8 booted from real DECtape. So did RT11. I had a DOS-11 versionB >>that booted and ran from DECtape also, though DOS had a built inC >>limit to the number of files it allowed to be opened on a DECtapesB >>at any one time that limited its usefulness there. It could have@ >>been lifted but DOS swapped so much that I ran out of patience >>trying to use it.   F > That's why RT-11 went through all the pain of a position-independentE > KMON -- so that they could keep it in memory as long as possible to3B > reduce trips back to reload it from DECtape. It wasn't necessary. > performance-wise with a disk-based platform.  O I'd thought the position-independence was because not all of the commands would N fit into the available memory (or perhaps I'm thinking of a different level). N I patched the monitor so that if the date wasn't set, typing any command wouldN branch to the date command - forcing people to remember to set the date.  FromG that I seem to recall that the commands were organized into 3-4 overlay / sections.  (This was version 2, iirc, in 1976).    --  = Thomas E. Dickey <dickey@radix.net> <dickey@herndon4.his.com>s http://dickey.his.coma ftp://dickey.his.com   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Jul 2003 12:51:33 GMT( From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva)$ Subject: Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates1 Message-ID: <bfgnkl$ksu$1@citadel.in.taronga.com>f  2 In article <3f46a6a1.31545088@news.supernews.com>,  paramucho <ian@hammo.com> wrote:A >RT-11 *could* act like a memory-resident system, but only if younE >obeyed some pretty strict memory usage guide lines. If you requestedxG >all background memory then the system would mark KMON non-resident andrA >it would be reloaded from the system device the next time it was-D >required. The same sort of thing happened with the USR. In terms ofG >Unix, KMON was equivalent to the Shell application, which was also nott >memory resident.w  H I suspect this was a fairly common design at the time: CP/M did the sameK thing with the CCP (Console Command Processor), though given CP/M's history 0 it could well have been copying RT-11 there too.   -- tH Rev. Peter da Silva, ULC.	 29.6852N 95.5770W                       WWFD?  F "Be conservative in what you generate, and liberal in what you accept" 	-- Matthew 10:16 (l.trans)s   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 18:11:09 +0800 , From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>$ Subject: Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates- Message-ID: <87brvojiki.fsf@prep.synonet.com>t  6 kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow) writes:  ^ > In article <4b2dndNoSs4WUYWiXTWJjQ@comcast.com>, "Douglas A. Gwyn" <DAGwyn@null.net> writes: >> Rob Warnock wrote:m  E >>> And OS-8 could even run with *only* DECtape as the "system disk",o	 >>> too!!   e@ >> I once ran RT-11 off DECtape on a PDP-11/70 in DEC's Marlboro >> facility.  It was amusing.   C > REAL DecTape, or that hightmare that was TU58? I always wanted touE > meet the engineer that came up with the TU58, with sharp impliments  > in hand...  D We used to run the PDP-6 from DECtapes when the disks where scrod...4 That was real DECtapes though, and quite reasonable.  D I have also run a 11/44 from TU-58 as the system disk. I can promiseE you, it is something you never want to do. To init it I set it going,tF then went to the tavern across the road for lunch. I think that is theC only way you can, other wise you will kill off the `failed' init...s  B Light and blunt please, we want it to be *SLOOOOWWW* and painfull!> Pity no one did a RSP disk or floppy for diags and the like...   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 14:21:10 GMTu From: ian@hammo.com (paramucho)g$ Subject: Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates2 Message-ID: <3f50f5e5.51839905@news.supernews.com>  F On 21 Jul 2003 09:16:25 GMT, Thomas Dickey <dickey@saltmine.radix.net> wrote:  0 >In comp.os.vms paramucho <ian@hammo.com> wrote:5 >> On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 13:31:28 -0400, Glenn Everhartp# >> <Everhart-nospam@gce.com> wrote:m >dE >>>OS/8 booted from real DECtape. So did RT11. I had a DOS-11 versionSC >>>that booted and ran from DECtape also, though DOS had a built intD >>>limit to the number of files it allowed to be opened on a DECtapeC >>>at any one time that limited its usefulness there. It could havehA >>>been lifted but DOS swapped so much that I ran out of patiencee >>>trying to use it.   > G >> That's why RT-11 went through all the pain of a position-independent F >> KMON -- so that they could keep it in memory as long as possible toC >> reduce trips back to reload it from DECtape. It wasn't necessary / >> performance-wise with a disk-based platform.a > P >I'd thought the position-independence was because not all of the commands wouldN >fit into the available memory (or perhaps I'm thinking of a different level).O >I patched the monitor so that if the date wasn't set, typing any command wouldeO >branch to the date command - forcing people to remember to set the date.  FromnH >that I seem to recall that the commands were organized into 3-4 overlay0 >sections.  (This was version 2, iirc, in 1976).  C It was still reasonably simple code in V2. In V3 they added support A for the full DCL interpreter in the PIC KMON (and KMOVLY overlay) C code. You know, subroutines that maintain a value which they use to 7 compute how much the return path has been relocated by.e  D I recently found the text of A SHORT HISTORY OF RT-11 that I did forB the mini-tasker many years ago. I'll try to get it reformatted andB post it here later this year, although I'd like to catch with some$ more recent versions of RT-11 first.       -- Ianl" Impressive If Haughty - Q Magazine   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Jul 2003 07:14:16 GMT3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann)y4 Subject: Re: Printing to remote PCL5e/PCL6 lpd queue0 Message-ID: <bfg3s8$3q7$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  e In article <Xns93BDDE20B13BEmikezankerorg@130.133.1.4>, Mike Zanker <not-for-mail@zanker.org> writes:$I >I have a Samsung ML-4600 (PCL6) printer attached to a remote lpd queue. mF >Would it be possible to set up a print queue on my Alpha to print to I >this? I have TCP/IP 5.3 installed so I guess it could be done using LPD  " >but how do I get it to talk PCL6?  < You need something like the PrintKit from Northlake SoftwareO (http://www.nls.com/). If you don't need special features you may use forms andh$ setup libraries from within OpenVMS.   Regards,    Christoph Gartmann    --  E  Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452f  ImmunbiologieA  Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.dea  D-79011  Freiburg, Germanys9                http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/menue.html=   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Jul 2003 07:28:07 GMT3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann)  Subject: Re: SHOW CLUSTER: SAVEp0 Message-ID: <bfg4m7$3q7$2@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  w In article <bfcb2j$441$1@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: 7 >OK, I'm customising my SHOW_CLUSTER.COM (pointed to by  >SHOW_CLUSTER$INIT). S > = >At first, I fired up SHOW CLUSTER/CONTINUOUS, did some stuffcG >interactively, and SAVEd it.  Works as expected (i.e. the commands areaH >executed as I had entered them interactively.)  However, when trying toF >add a new CLASS, the resulting SHOW_CLUSTER.COM does something else. D >If, however, I edit it by hand and enter the commands I would have H >entered interactively, the resulting procedure does work as expected.  E >In other words, sometimes SAVE does not SAVE exactly what one typed.  >  >Bug or feature?  K Show us your procedure. Otherwise it is impossible to tell what's going on.    Regards,    Christoph Gartmanno   --  E  Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452m  ImmunbiologieA  Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.des  D-79011  Freiburg, Germanyn9                http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/menue.htmli   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:10:16 +0100nO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>i Subject: Re: Sun and SCO0 Message-ID: <bfgvpg$lik$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Keith Parris wrote:r > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<bf8ut7$2qn$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...y >  >>Keith Parris wrote:i >>F >>>There was discussion here recently about the level and sincerity of >>>Sun's support of Linux. >>2 >>What has this announcement got to do with it ??? >  > H > Do you really want me to spell it out?  I think it's pretty obvious to > the readers here.t > G > Sun made a deal with SCO, reportedly way back in February, but didn'trF > announce it, keeping it a secret.  It was only revealed when someoneF > discovered it in regulatory documents filed with the US Government. ( > That makes one question Sun's motives. > A > Sun is not only on the same side as Microsoft in supporting SCO1F > against Linux, they actually beat Microsoft in the race to pay SCO. : > Millions of dollars of licensing fees are involved here. > I  > Not only did Sun pay additional money to SCO, they acquired the optioncG  > to take an equity stake in SCO: 210K shares at a price of $1.83 -- a1H  > quote today shows the share price of SCOX at close to $12, for a gainH  > of a cool $2 million (and Sun may already have exercised that option,G  > for all we know; in any case, Sun now stands to gain financially andeI  > directly if SCO's suit against IBM (and other suits threatened againstvE  > other Linux vendors and even Linux customers) is successful, sinces"  > SCO's stock price would go up).  7 Ahh so your supposition is that Sun is financing SCO toc sue IBM !!!!  > You didn't consider that the deal could simply be a technology= licensing deal that has nothing to do with SCO's ongoing cases against IBM ???i   How typical.   Regardsg Andrew Harrisont   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Jul 2003 16:34:41 -00004 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> Subject: Re: Sun and SCO4 Message-ID: <20030721163441.653.qmail@gacracker.org>  6 On Mon, 21 Jul 2003, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy. <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote: >Keith Parris wrote:L >> Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>@ >> wrote in message news:<bf8ut7$2qn$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>... >> T >>>Keith Parris wrote: >>>rG >>>>There was discussion here recently about the level and sincerity ofn >>>>Sun's support of Linux.i >>>s3 >>>What has this announcement got to do with it ???O >> P >> oI >> Do you really want me to spell it out?  I think it's pretty obvious toe >> the readers here. >> eH >> Sun made a deal with SCO, reportedly way back in February, but didn'tG >> announce it, keeping it a secret.  It was only revealed when someonemG >> discovered it in regulatory documents filed with the US Government. -) >> That makes one question Sun's motives.  >> eB >> Sun is not only on the same side as Microsoft in supporting SCOG >> against Linux, they actually beat Microsoft in the race to pay SCO. -; >> Millions of dollars of licensing fees are involved here.y >> mJ > > Not only did Sun pay additional money to SCO, they acquired the optionH > > to take an equity stake in SCO: 210K shares at a price of $1.83 -- aI > > quote today shows the share price of SCOX at close to $12, for a gainlI > > of a cool $2 million (and Sun may already have exercised that option,eH > > for all we know; in any case, Sun now stands to gain financially andJ > > directly if SCO's suit against IBM (and other suits threatened againstF > > other Linux vendors and even Linux customers) is successful, since# > > SCO's stock price would go up).[ >]8 >Ahh so your supposition is that Sun is financing SCO to
 >sue IBM !!!!   M According to Terry Pratchett, use of multiple !s is a sure sign of a diseasede mind. :)  ? >You didn't consider that the deal could simply be a technologyc> >licensing deal that has nothing to do with SCO's ongoing case >against IBM ??? >7
 >How typical.:  B Gotta love them plausible conspiracy theories, haven't you Andrew?     Doc. -- lK OpenVMS.         Eight out of ten hackers prefer *other* operating systems.uK [New PGP Key - Get via finger]        http://deathrow.vistech.net/BOFH/doc/n   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:16:28 GMT 9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>L Subject: Re: Sun and SCO/ Message-ID: <wlUSa.500$AH.297@news.cpqcorp.net>   A "Doc.Cypher" <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in messageo. news:20030721163441.653.qmail@gacracker.org...   > > : > >Ahh so your supposition is that Sun is financing SCO to > >sue IBM !!!!  >-F > According to Terry Pratchett, use of multiple !s is a sure sign of a diseased
 > mind. :) >.  - Yes, but let's not get into giant turtles ;-)u  A > >You didn't consider that the deal could simply be a technologyf@ > >licensing deal that has nothing to do with SCO's ongoing case > >against IBM ??? > >- > >How typical.o >h  J I suppose the implication here is that Sun wants to be seen as a supporterL of Linux on the one hand, but hedge it's bets on the other hand - but not inD public.  The option to buy a stake in SCO is curious, since the onlyL apparent way for that to have been beneficial is for SCO to be successful inL it's crusade to stop Linux, and force companies to license it's UNIX IP.  SoJ it does question just how firmly Sun really is committed Linux.  The deathJ or crippling of Linux certainly would help Solaris - at least in the short term.u  D > Gotta love them plausible conspiracy theories, haven't you Andrew? >   L Doesn't have to be any conspiracy here.  Simply Sun hedging their bets... in@ a way to try to fly under the radar of the true Linux believers.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 10:52:13 -0400 ' From: "Bill Clark" <bclark_at_lrgh.org>g/ Subject: TCP-related Print-queue head-scratcher 2 Message-ID: <8KednYQ10rkOYIaiXTWJhw@metrocast.net>  	 greetingsdK           i'm fishing.  OpenVMS 7.2-2, AlphaServer 4100, TCPIP_ECO v5.1-154s .u  H           i have a number of print-queues in the Emergency Room, Walk-in Care officesK           and registration offices, standard dot-matrix printers, LantronixX LPS Print servers;L           on an increasingly frequent basis, several wall-clock minutes will elapse before print 8           jobs sent to these queues will actually print.J           the queues do not report a 'Stalled' state, there do not seem to be any CPU / I-OH           'hogs' consuming all the system resources, and i can detect no network-relatedlH           congestion or conflicts. our network administator says 'all is well' as far as he is            concerned.  H           are there TCP Network Configuration settings that can be set ~ checked ~ tinkeredI          with in an effort to identify (or better yet - cure) whatever iso causing this problem?d  J           the printers are not 'SHARED' with other devices, that is to say they are not beingG           used as someone's personal or 'PC' printer. the Lantronix LPSo units have been swappedo'           out and around, with no luck.t  J         any information, up to and including wild guesses, will be happily entertained. TIA.t   b clark at lrgh dot orgn   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 12:19:20 GMT-( From: "John Hayes" <hayes1966@yahoo.com>  Subject: TCPIP/ROUTE & T1 CONFIG8 Message-ID: <cTQSa.58583$R92.2678@news2.central.cox.net>  J We just installed a cisco router for frame relay. works off laptop and canL see outside world. I need to config tcpip/route to see this anyone done thisH before. I want the alpha system to do dhcp for clients too. Any pointers greatly appreciated.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 13:20:03 GMTf1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>r$ Subject: Re: TCPIP/ROUTE & T1 CONFIG2 Message-ID: <3F1BE686.639E8638@firstdbasource.com>   John Hayes wrote:I > L > We just installed a cisco router for frame relay. works off laptop and canN > see outside world. I need to config tcpip/route to see this anyone done thisJ > before. I want the alpha system to do dhcp for clients too. Any pointers > greatly appreciated.  1 Not enough information to fullfil the request....g   but if I can take a wild guess  ) set route /def/net /gate=<your router IP>t. set route /def/net /gate=<your router IP>/perm  C This sets the default gateway to be your router - (DSL, T1, etc...)h     -- S Regards,  6 Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 19847 First DBA Source, Inc.    Registered Linux User #261163b   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 08:37:03 -0400f* From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com>% Subject: Update VMS731_CDRECORD-V0100 / Message-ID: <3F1BA62F.18434.195C3A0A@localhost>S  D The command procedure provided with this kit expects CD drives only E on the first SCSI bus.  Specifying "DKB0", for example, always fails.s  E If you specify "dev=1,0,0" directly to the CDRECORD executable, that 1	 succeeds.c    
 --Stan Quaylea Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------C Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363  Fax: +1 614 868-1671 1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147v= Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.comg   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:14:18 -0400o From: norm.raphael@metso.com) Subject: Re: Update VMS731_CDRECORD-V0100i? Message-ID: <OF22220477.1174241D-ON85256D6A.0048B455@metso.com>r   Have you reported this?i  B From:  "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com> on 07/21/2003 08:37 AM  6 Please respond to "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com>   To:    Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com cc:l  ( Subject:    Update VMS731_CDRECORD-V0100    C The command procedure provided with this kit expects CD drives onlyaE on the first SCSI bus.  Specifying "DKB0", for example, always fails.l  D If you specify "dev=1,0,0" directly to the CDRECORD executable, that	 succeeds.i    
 --Stan Quaylet Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------C Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363  Fax: +1 614 868-1671S1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147-= Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 10:11:48 -0400A* From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com>) Subject: Re: Update VMS731_CDRECORD-V0100>. Message-ID: <3F1BBC64.7204.19B2F75E@localhost>  5 On 21 Jul 2003 at 9:14, norm.raphael@metso.com wrote:e > Have you reported this?p  F I have posted it in the bug section of www.openvms.org.  I don't have > a support contract, so the official channels are closed to me.  
 --Stan QuayleK Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------C Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363  Fax: +1 614 868-1671 1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147e= Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.coml   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 15:37:09 GMTa" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG) Subject: Re: Update VMS731_CDRECORD-V0100r0 Message-ID: <00A23304.E7148B09@SendSpamHere.ORG>  \ In article <3F1BA62F.18434.195C3A0A@localhost>, "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com> writes:E >The command procedure provided with this kit expects CD drives only NF >on the first SCSI bus.  Specifying "DKB0", for example, always fails. >YF >If you specify "dev=1,0,0" directly to the CDRECORD executable, that 
 >succeeds.  J When I first worked on CDRECORD to fix a SCSI but for Eberhard, I thought I that unixy mechanism was pretty crappy.  I changed it in the version thateE I use here so that I can specify with the device's VMS specification.Y   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMm             5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" o   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:09:56 +0200[+ From: Rok Vidmar <Rok.Vidmar@NUK.Uni-Lj.Si>yH Subject: Re: Using MIME and SMTP mail results in %TCPIP-I-SMTP_LINEWRAP,& Message-ID: <3f1bca05$1@NUK.Uni-Lj.Si>   Michael Austin wrote:o ... H > I like this method because now I don't need to worry about cleaning upI > orphaned temp files.  I have not been able to figure out how to get zip  > to play this game yet...  % -m   move into zipfile (delete files)o   --   Regards,  D Rok Vidmar                       Internet:  rok.vidmar@nuk.uni-lj.si; National and University Library  Phone:     +386 1 421 5461o; Turjaska 1, SI-1000 Ljubljana    Fax:       +386 1 421 5464e Slovenia   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:23:41 GMTe9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> ( Subject: Re: What are HP Insiders doing?/ Message-ID: <hsUSa.502$YM.470@news.cpqcorp.net>,  H Uh, gee.  Perhaps that is because typically insiders get there stock viaF options and grants.  I can't recall in all my years in the biz, seeingL management for any company buying significant amounts their own stock (aside3 from stock purchase plans), with their own money...:  J But lets just admit it shall we?  You are trolling for some reason to stir0 up something else.  A little FUD for a slow day.  . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageB news:nlWRa.27122$Ci2.12636@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...A > No Fred, it's that insiders are apparently NOT buying HP stock.L > F > If you look at the date ranges of the trades, we're talking nearly 1B > year of elapsed time and the ratio of sales:purchases is 20:1 or > thereabouts. >y > It's just curious....... >  >'F > "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> wrote in message, > news:DWARa.295$qA3.254@news.cpqcorp.net... > >sE > > Apparently not selling stock at the peak or upswing, since all ofn > thesetE > > numbers are a couple bucks shy of the current price.  I sold *my*c
 > pittanceD > > of stock too not too long ago, property taxes in NH are brutal -	 > doesn'taF > > mean I think the stock isn't worth holding onto.  I too sold below > $20...H > > the State of NH doesn't take IOU's against stock, they like cash.  I > wouldmF > > assume others also like to occasionally convert stock into cash so
 > they can
 > > spend it.: > >2E > > But of course, what you really are starting this troll thread forc > was toC > > somehow imply that some HP insiders are dumping their holdings.0 > >f > >f2 > > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageE > > news:rXyRa.15882$Ci2.3774@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...i > > >gH > http://moneycentral.msn.com/investor/invsub/insider/trans.asp?view=All > > > &Symbol=hpqD > > >D< > > > 05/30/03 WAYMAN ROBERT PAUL Sold 179,176 $19.25 $3 Mil; > > > 12/09/02 WAYMAN ROBERT PAUL Sold 73,580 $18.20 $1 Mile > > >u: > > >  05/22/03 BOWICK SUSAN D Sold 24,022 $17.98 $431,916 > > >i; > > >  05/22/03 ZITZNER DUANE E Sold 15,952 $18.40 $293,517> > > > ; > > >  04/02/03 LIVERMORE ANN M Sold 23,927 $16.06 $384,268 ; > > >  09/10/02 LIVERMORE ANN M Sold 41,996 $14.08 $591,304y > > > 9 > > >  03/07/03 BOWICK SUSAN D Sold 6,650 $15.31 $101,771u > > > A > > >  03/05/03 CLARKE JEFFERY J Purchased 10,000 $15.38 $153,800o > > >a6 > > >  12/11/02 DUNN DEBRA L Sold 5,000 $18.25 $91,250 > > >  > > >e4 > > > Wayman, the CFO, has sold 1/3 of his holdings. > > > E > > > Lots of reasons why all these sales could be occuring, but very  > little' > > > is happening on the buying front.  > > >A > > >  > > >  > > >  > > >g > >h > >B >U >u   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.400 ************************                    option, BACKUP saves only the file header record=                       of files marked with the NPORT 147,162,156,46,200,346 >>> 200 Port 200.34 at Host 147.162.156.46 accepted.  <<< PORT 147,162,156,46,200,346 >>> 200 Port 200.34 at Host 147.162.156.46 accepted.  <<< PORT 147,162,156,46,200,346 >>> 200 Port 200.34 at Host 147.162.156.46 accepted.  <<< PORT 147,162,156,46,200,346 >>> 200 Port 200.34 at Host 147.162.156.46 accepted.  <<< PORT 147,162,156,46,200,346 >>> 200 Port 200.34 at Host 147.162.156.46 accepted.  <<< PORT 147,162,156,46,200,346 >>> 200 Port 200.34 at Host 147.162.156.46 accepted.  <<< PORT 147,162,156,46,200,346 >>> 200 Port 200.34 at Host 147.162.156.46 accepted.  <<< PORT 147,162,156,46,200,346 >>> 200 Port 200.34 at Host 147.162.156.46 accepted.  <<< PORT 147,162,156,46,200,346 >>> 200 Port 200.34 at Host 147.162.156.46 accepted.  <<< PORT 147,162,156,46,200,346 >>> 200 Port 200.34 at Host 147.162.156.46 accepted.  <<< PORT 147,162,156,46,200,346 >>> 200 Port 200.34 at Host 147.162.156.46 accepted.  <<< PORT 147,162,156,46,200,346 >>> 200 Port 200.34 at Host 147.162.156.46 accepted.  <<< PORT 147,162,156,46,200,346 >>> 200 Port 200.34 at Host 147.162.156.46 accepted.  <<< PORT 147,162,156,46,200,346 >>> 200 Port 200.34 at Host 147.162.156.46 accepted.  <<< PORT 147,162,156,46,200,346 >>> 200 Port 200.34 at Host 147.162.156.46 accepted.  <<< PORT 147,162,156,46,200,346 >>> 200 Port 200.34 at Host 147.162.156.46 accepted.  <<< PORT 147,162,156,46,200,346 >>> 200 Port 200.34 at Host 147.162.156.46 accepted.  <<< PORT 147,162,156,46,200,346 >>> 200 Port 200.34 at Host 147.162.156.46 accepted.  <<< PORT 147,162,156,46,200,346 >>> 200 Port 200.34 at Host 147.162.156.46 accepted.  <<< PORT 147,162,156,46,200,346 >>> 200 Port 200.34 at Host 147.162.156.46 accepted.  <<< PORT 147,162,156,46,200,346 >>> 200 Port 200.34 at Host 147.162.156.46 accepted.  <<< PORT 147,162,156,46,200,346 >>> 200 Port 200.34 at Host 147.162.156.46 accepted.  <<< PORT 147,162,156,46,200,346 >>> 200 Port 200.34 at Host 147.162.156.46 accepted.  <<< PORT 147,162,156,46,200,346 >>> 200 Port 200.34 at Host 147.162.156.46 accepted.  <<< PORT 147,162,156,46,200,346 >>> 200 Port 200.34 at Host 147.162.156.46 accepted.  <<< PORT 147,162,156,46,200,346 >>> 200 Port 200.34 at Host 147.162.156.46 accepted.  <<< PORT 147,162,156,46,200,346 >>> 200 Port 200.34 at Host 147.162.156.46 accepted.  <<< PORT 147,162,156,46,200,346 >>> 200 Port 200.34 at Host 147.162.156.46 accepted.  <<< PORT 147,162,156,46,200,346 >>> 200 Po