1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 22 Jul 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 402       Contents: Re: A Caching Question Re: A Caching Question5 Re: BACKUP/IGNORE=INTERLOCK (was: Re: OpenVms Backup) 6 BasicPlus Uncompiler (Was Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates): Re: BasicPlus Uncompiler (Was Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates): Re: BasicPlus Uncompiler (Was Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates): Re: BasicPlus Uncompiler (Was Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates): Re: BasicPlus Uncompiler (Was Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates)6 Re: Compaq Solutions Aliance - Do it still existing  ?  Re: Custom Separator Page [DCPS]N Re: D.H. Brown: EV7 AlphaServers Deliver Enhanced RAS and Powerful PerformanceP Re: D.H. Brown: EV7 AlphaServers Deliver Enhanced RAS and Powerful Performance P Re: DHCP startup problems  Re: DHCP startup problems  Re: DHCP startup problems G Re: Does RT-11 run on the PDP-11/70?  (was Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates) F Re: Does RT-11 run on the PDP-11/70? (was Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates)F Re: Does RT-11 run on the PDP-11/70? (was Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates)F Re: Does RT-11 run on the PDP-11/70? (was Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates)F Re: Does RT-11 run on the PDP-11/70? (was Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates)F Re: Does RT-11 run on the PDP-11/70? (was Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates) Re: EMC on VMS Re: FS: 1986 Olds CalaisL FS: VMS Software Product & Online Documentation Library - For Sale.txt (0/1)L FS: VMS Software Product & Online Documentation Library - For Sale.txt (1/1) Re: HP FUDBusting  Re: HP FUDBusting  Re: HP FUDBusting  Re: HP FUDBusting + Re: HP World: Why Alpha's Omega Makes Sense P Re: IDC reports PC Market Share: Dell over HP by a nose; both pulling away from P Re: IDC reports PC Market Share: Dell over HP by a nose; both pulling away from P Re: IDC reports PC Market Share: Dell over HP by a nose; both pulling away from P Re: IDC reports PC Market Share: Dell over HP by a nose; both pulling away from , Re: IDC: HP ranks No. 1 in 2002 HPTC revenueP Re: Intel's had Dirty Bombs Anthrax and everything! (Was: Re: HP World: Why AlphP Re: Intel's had Dirty Bombs Anthrax and everything! (Was: Re: HP World: Why Alph Re: Memory allocation  missing multiple blocking ASTs" Re: missing multiple blocking ASTs" Re: missing multiple blocking ASTs# Re: Mozilla... the new NULL process # Re: Mozilla... the new NULL process # Re: Mozilla... the new NULL process # Re: Mozilla... the new NULL process # Re: Mozilla... the new NULL process  Re: New OpenVMS-to-Itanium FAQ Re: New OpenVMS-to-Itanium FAQ RE: New OpenVMS-to-Itanium FAQ Re: New OpenVMS-to-Itanium FAQ Re: New OpenVMS-to-Itanium FAQ6 Re: Non-OpenVMS ethernet access to Printserver 17/600?6 Re: Non-OpenVMS ethernet access to Printserver 17/600?6 Re: Non-OpenVMS ethernet access to Printserver 17/600?/ Re: Obsolete cross compilers: where did you go? / Re: Obsolete cross compilers: where did you go?  Re: OpenVms Backup Re: OpenVms Backup Re: OpenVms Backup Re: OpenVms Backup Re: OpenVms Backup Re: OpenVms Backup Re: OpenVms Backup Re: OpenVms Backup Re: OpenVms Backup Re: OpenVms Backup Re: OpenVms Backup Re: OpenVms Backup Re: OpenVms Backup Re: OpenVms Backup OpenVMS Cluster overhead Re: OpenVMS Cluster overhead" Re: Opteron motherboard maker soldF PL/I to C and C++ translation services, process overview now availableJ RE: PL/I to C and C++ translation services, process overview now availableJ RE: PL/I to C and C++ translation services, process overview now availableJ RE: PL/I to C and C++ translation services, process overview now availableJ RE: PL/I to C and C++ translation services, process overview now available Re: PPPOE? When? How? + Re: Printing to remote PCL5e/PCL6 lpd queue + Re: PW V5.0F ECO 2 and VMS V7.3-1 resources  Re: Sun and SCO * Re: TCP-related Print-queue head-scratcher  Re: Update VMS731_CDRECORD-V01005 Re: What color were the VMS manuals for old versions? 5 Re: What color were the VMS manuals for old versions? 5 Re: What color were the VMS manuals for old versions? & Re: XFC, IO Size and Backup - Take Two& Re: XFC, IO Size and Backup - Take Two  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 22 Jul 2003 08:02:17 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: A Caching Question 3 Message-ID: <PO4u0u6u5KJM@eisner.encompasserve.org>   d In article <Sea2-F13wC6RZT26XOI0000f12d@hotmail.com>, "Ingemar Olson" <bio2935c@hotmail.com> writes:1 > A colleague has asked me to post this question:  > N >>I wonder if anyone has heard of or used a technique whereby one maintains a H >>certain minimum use count on data files that one wants kept cached in K >>memory? The technique involves simply opening and reading a few critical  L >>data files and then having this process hibernate. Now everyone else also N >>begins to use the files in the normal way with caching and reads and writes I >>as per normal. But when everyone has stopped using the shared files in  L >>question and gone home, these files still retain a non-zero use count and H >>stay cached in memory ready for the next sudden wave of user requests. > F >>I have done this on another platform but never yet on OpenVMS. I am N >>wondering who has done this kind of thing and if it was worthwhile? INSTALL L >>seems to be out of the question because it is used with executables where M >>we need a flow through buffering that allows us writes. A RAMdisk seems to  I >>be out of the question too because of the requirement for flow through  J >>writes. So I am looking to play with the existing caching mechanism. We M >>need, essentially, to pre-load and maintain in memory some large reference   >>files. >   A    1)  The file in question must be opened with shring turned on. H    2)  The language-specific caching featurs must be used, and those may       not be shared caches. 3    3)  There are better ways to solve this problem.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 07:32:41 -0600 6 From: "Michael D. Ober" <obermd-@-alum-mit-edu-nospam> Subject: Re: A Caching Question . Message-ID: <Z1bTa.6$kf.16533@news.uswest.net>  H "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:PO4u0u6u5KJM@eisner.encompasserve.org... G > In article <Sea2-F13wC6RZT26XOI0000f12d@hotmail.com>, "Ingemar Olson"  <bio2935c@hotmail.com> writes:3 > > A colleague has asked me to post this question:  > > C > >>I wonder if anyone has heard of or used a technique whereby one  maintains a I > >>certain minimum use count on data files that one wants kept cached in L > >>memory? The technique involves simply opening and reading a few criticalH > >>data files and then having this process hibernate. Now everyone else alsoH > >>begins to use the files in the normal way with caching and reads and writesJ > >>as per normal. But when everyone has stopped using the shared files inI > >>question and gone home, these files still retain a non-zero use count  and J > >>stay cached in memory ready for the next sudden wave of user requests. > > G > >>I have done this on another platform but never yet on OpenVMS. I am G > >>wondering who has done this kind of thing and if it was worthwhile?  INSTALL G > >>seems to be out of the question because it is used with executables  where K > >>we need a flow through buffering that allows us writes. A RAMdisk seems  toJ > >>be out of the question too because of the requirement for flow throughK > >>writes. So I am looking to play with the existing caching mechanism. We D > >>need, essentially, to pre-load and maintain in memory some large	 reference 
 > >>files. > >  > C >    1)  The file in question must be opened with shring turned on. J >    2)  The language-specific caching featurs must be used, and those may >       not be shared caches. 5 >    3)  There are better ways to solve this problem.  > B MS-Office does this and it has a negative impact on overall systemH performance on low resource systems.  (Other programs run slower becauseH they don't have the memory) On large resource systems, it doesn't make aL difference.*  Bob's right that there are better ways to solve this problem -K bascially, the built in cache in VMS is too small and not real bright.  Get K a third party cache manager that dynamically allocates and deallocates main L memory to the cache based on overall system load.  A good cache manager willL keep the portions of your reference files that are actually be referenced inL main memory, and can transparently swap in additional sections as needed andJ also write out (if they have been changed) any sections that are no longer needed by a program.  K No flames please, but recommendations for other third party caches would be  helpful:  E We use IOExpress from Executive Software - it took our disk intensive I nightly processing batch processes from 7 hours to 2 hours - no change to 2 our software, just installing IO Express did this.  
 Mike Ober.    K * To get rid of the MS-Office hook that does this, go to your startup group G and delete the MS-Office program placed in Startup during the MS-Office  install.  Reboot.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 09:52:01 -0400 - From: Jonathan Boswell <jsb@ost.cdrh.fda.gov> > Subject: Re: BACKUP/IGNORE=INTERLOCK (was: Re: OpenVms Backup)0 Message-ID: <3F1D4181.EEB2EF1C@ost.cdrh.fda.gov>   Rob.Buxton@wcc.govt.nz wrote: H > Now compared to some I'm a newcomer, only been involved with VMS since3 > 4.4, but I've never had to recover a System Disk.   O True Story time.  (I go back to 1979, but I cannot remember what version of VMS H that was.  I do remember having to type some of those darn backwards RSXN commands like PIP, and I once sysgen'd myself into oblivion before discovering+ autogen, if in fact it existed that early.)   L The only time I have ever had to recover a system disk was by performing theM Digital-approved standalone backup!  So, those who say there are risks to the P /ignore=interlock must also realize that there are risks to standalone backup as well, given human fallibility.  M I was attempting to de-fragment my system disk when I committed the following M blunder.  I backed up the WRONG DISK due to a single-character typo, and then O went blind to that mistake and restored the image over my system disk.  Imagine N my surprise when my cluster would not reboot!  I thought that I had suffered aO hardware failure.  I was so sure of my commands that it took me half an hour of O befuddlement before a backup/list of the tape incontrovertibly showed my device N name typo.  The dia0/dib0 console device names didn't help, since they are allP DIAn devices to VMS.  (My system disk was dia0 from the console on one node, but dib0 from the other.)   F The previous day's backup/ignore=interlock of the system disk saved myP posterior, though at the minor expense of recreating the print and batch queues.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 10:37:53 -0400 0 From: Christopher McNabb <cmcnabb@n0sp4m.vt.edu>? Subject: BasicPlus Uncompiler (Was Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates) : Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.22.14.37.40.264050@n0sp4m.vt.edu>  5 On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 02:55:42 +0000, Don Stokes wrote:   ? > In article <bdc65a53.0307180649.4a7d5d60@posting.google.com>, ' > Galen <gspamtackett@yahoo.com> wrote: B >>Somebody used to distribute a Basic-Plus uncompiler, which was aH >>pretty cool and magical tool to impress other computer lab staff with. > % > We had one of these under RSTS/E.     J Just looking on my pdp-11/83 I see that I have the source for a Basic-PlusG un-compiler.  It consistes of two files located in PPN [111,111] titled F unbac.bas and unbac1.bas.  According to the copyright statement in the/ files, they were written in 1979 by Bill Lortz.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 10:43:00 -0600  From: Kevin Handy <kth@srv.net> C Subject: Re: BasicPlus Uncompiler (Was Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates) & Message-ID: <3F1D6994.5060200@srv.net>   Christopher McNabb wrote: 7 > On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 02:55:42 +0000, Don Stokes wrote:  >  > ? >>In article <bdc65a53.0307180649.4a7d5d60@posting.google.com>, ' >>Galen <gspamtackett@yahoo.com> wrote:  >>C >>>Somebody used to distribute a Basic-Plus uncompiler, which was a I >>>pretty cool and magical tool to impress other computer lab staff with.  >>% >>We had one of these under RSTS/E.    >  > L > Just looking on my pdp-11/83 I see that I have the source for a Basic-PlusI > un-compiler.  It consistes of two files located in PPN [111,111] titled H > unbac.bas and unbac1.bas.  According to the copyright statement in the1 > files, they were written in 1979 by Bill Lortz.  >   H I've tried to locate him, but without success. It's probably still under9 copyright by him under his old company, but I'm not sure. E It would be great for someone to locate him and get copyright release  for this program.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 10:43:50 -0600  From: Kevin Handy <kth@srv.net> C Subject: Re: BasicPlus Uncompiler (Was Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates) 6 Message-ID: <a2dTa.316$R27.95@fe01.atl2.webusenet.com>   Christopher McNabb wrote: 7 > On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 02:55:42 +0000, Don Stokes wrote:  >  > ? >>In article <bdc65a53.0307180649.4a7d5d60@posting.google.com>, ' >>Galen <gspamtackett@yahoo.com> wrote:  >>C >>>Somebody used to distribute a Basic-Plus uncompiler, which was a I >>>pretty cool and magical tool to impress other computer lab staff with.  >>% >>We had one of these under RSTS/E.    >  > L > Just looking on my pdp-11/83 I see that I have the source for a Basic-PlusI > un-compiler.  It consistes of two files located in PPN [111,111] titled H > unbac.bas and unbac1.bas.  According to the copyright statement in the1 > files, they were written in 1979 by Bill Lortz.  >   H I've tried to locate him, but without success. It's probably still under9 copyright by him under his old company, but I'm not sure. E It would be great for someone to locate him and get copyright release  for this program.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 10:34:59 -0600 . From: Sam Seiber <Sam.Seiber1234@sbseiber.com>C Subject: Re: BasicPlus Uncompiler (Was Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates) ( Message-ID: <3F1D67B3.32D5@sbseiber.com>   Kevin Handy wrote: >  > Christopher McNabb wrote: 9 > > On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 02:55:42 +0000, Don Stokes wrote:  > >  > > A > >>In article <bdc65a53.0307180649.4a7d5d60@posting.google.com>, ) > >>Galen <gspamtackett@yahoo.com> wrote:  > >>E > >>>Somebody used to distribute a Basic-Plus uncompiler, which was a K > >>>pretty cool and magical tool to impress other computer lab staff with.  > >>% > >>We had one of these under RSTS/E.  > >  > > N > > Just looking on my pdp-11/83 I see that I have the source for a Basic-PlusK > > un-compiler.  It consistes of two files located in PPN [111,111] titled J > > unbac.bas and unbac1.bas.  According to the copyright statement in the3 > > files, they were written in 1979 by Bill Lortz.  > >  > J > I've tried to locate him, but without success. It's probably still under; > copyright by him under his old company, but I'm not sure. G > It would be great for someone to locate him and get copyright release  > for this program.   C If the Bill Lortz you are talking about is who I think he is, he is . easy enough to find at http://people.yahoo.comB Use CA for the state.  He was a good friend of mine in high school
 ('75), andE spent the early part of his career programming PDP-11's.  He knew his @ RSTS/E.  Pretty sure it has to be the same guy.  I havn't talked> to him for a few years, so I am not sure if he is still in CA. Worth a try at least.   
 Sam Seiber   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 11:48:47 -0600  From: Kevin Handy <kth@srv.net> C Subject: Re: BasicPlus Uncompiler (Was Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates) 7 Message-ID: <a%dTa.325$R27.267@fe01.atl2.webusenet.com>    Sam Seiber wrote:  > Kevin Handy wrote: >  >>Christopher McNabb wrote:  >>8 >>>On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 02:55:42 +0000, Don Stokes wrote: >>>  >>>  >>> A >>>>In article <bdc65a53.0307180649.4a7d5d60@posting.google.com>, ) >>>>Galen <gspamtackett@yahoo.com> wrote:  >>>> >>>>E >>>>>Somebody used to distribute a Basic-Plus uncompiler, which was a K >>>>>pretty cool and magical tool to impress other computer lab staff with.  >>>>% >>>>We had one of these under RSTS/E.  >>>  >>> M >>>Just looking on my pdp-11/83 I see that I have the source for a Basic-Plus J >>>un-compiler.  It consistes of two files located in PPN [111,111] titledI >>>unbac.bas and unbac1.bas.  According to the copyright statement in the 2 >>>files, they were written in 1979 by Bill Lortz. >>>  >>J >>I've tried to locate him, but without success. It's probably still under; >>copyright by him under his old company, but I'm not sure. G >>It would be great for someone to locate him and get copyright release  >>for this program.  >  > E > If the Bill Lortz you are talking about is who I think he is, he is 0 > easy enough to find at http://people.yahoo.comD > Use CA for the state.  He was a good friend of mine in high school > ('75), andG > spent the early part of his career programming PDP-11's.  He knew his B > RSTS/E.  Pretty sure it has to be the same guy.  I havn't talked@ > to him for a few years, so I am not sure if he is still in CA. > Worth a try at least.  >   B This one would have been from Idaho, and spent a lot of time here.B Last I heard was that he was in Tennessee, but that was many years ago.   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Jul 03 19:00:07 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) ? Subject: Re: Compaq Solutions Aliance - Do it still existing  ? ) Message-ID: <ltpT05Q8TGCy@elias.decus.ch>   V In article <3F1C4005.A5228D90@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes: > Paul Sture wrote: H >> A case in point: I received an email on this VMS system containing anF >> RTF file as an attachment. I successfully used MIME (ugh) to detach( >> it but the result was downright ugly. > B > $convert/document thefile.rtf/format=rtf thefile.txt/format=text > 8 > Or, if you want to preserve the formating information: > L > $convert/document thefile.rtf/format=rtf thefile.ddif/format=ddif and then, > type the file, or use decwrite to edit it.   Good suggestion, except I get:  + %CDA-E-ICVNOTFND, input converter not found   D Did CDA in its full form make it to Alpha? (I started with V7.2-1 on# this system, and am now on V7.3/1).   H And DECwrite hasn't worked here since the Adobe support was dropped fromA VMS. Someone here suggested I get the latest layered products CDs B and reinstall the products affected. The older CDs still expect to see Adobe support.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 15:02:47 GMT * From: Paul Anderson <paul.anderson@hp.com>) Subject: Re: Custom Separator Page [DCPS] 5 Message-ID: <220720031105521651%paul.anderson@hp.com>   E In article <421ab8b7.0307211937.4d9caaf9@posting.google.com>, BigBarr  <tpercy23@hotmail.com> wrote:   E > My postscript flag page prints only username, jobid, date and queue F > as opposed to the default flag.  I followed until "put your own pageD > in there as lps$$systempages".  Could you please be more specific?  A Take your PostScript flag page and insert it into your PS1 device $ control library as LPS$$SYSTEMPAGES:  ,    $ COPY your-flag-page LPS$$SYSTEMPAGES.PS>    $ LIBRARY /INSERT /TEXT SYS$LIBRARY:PS1 LPS$$SYSTEMPAGES.PS  G Then change your definition of the DCPS_LIB logical name to include PS1  before DCPS$DEVCTL:   <    $ DEFINE /EXECUTIVE_MODE /SYSTEM DCPS_LIB PS1,DCPS$DEVCTL  G Since DCPS always uses LPS$$SYSTEMPAGES for its flag page, this ensures ! your version will be found first.   F The method for passing variable data (username, entry number and queueA name) is probably different between your page and the DCPS page.  G Therefore, you'll probably have to change your page to match the method  used in LPS$$SYSTEMPAGES.    Paul   --    Paul Anderson   OpenVMS Engineering    Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 13:08:56 GMT 9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> W Subject: Re: D.H. Brown: EV7 AlphaServers Deliver Enhanced RAS and Powerful Performance 0 Message-ID: <IHaTa.585$jq1.144@news.cpqcorp.net>  / Buy a clue.  We'll all chip in a couple Euro's.   K "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> ; wrote in message news:bfj0ir$cr6$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com...    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 10:36:22 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> Y Subject: Re: D.H. Brown: EV7 AlphaServers Deliver Enhanced RAS and Powerful Performance P 0 Message-ID: <bfj0ir$cr6$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:M > "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> = > wrote in message news:bfgvfm$le9$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com...  >  >>jlsue wrote: >>H >>>On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:15:56 +0100, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy1 >>><Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote:  >>>  >>= >>Well think about it the other way. Itanium given the amount = >>it has cost so far is unlikely to turn a profit in the next ? >>5 years, despite this your employer and Intel show no sign of $ >>dropping consigning it to the bin. >> >  > M > You are absolutely clueless.  Did that come with the mail order MBA?  If we L > put you in charge of Sun's finances you'd be out of business by the end of > the year.  > - > The rest of your post is just as worthless.  >  >  >     = Well if you had seen fit to critique my post properly instead > of descending to playground abuse then I might be able to help% you out but since you didn't I can't.   > Intel and HP have spent ~5 billion on developing Itanium thats< 5 billion thats gone from the combined balance sheet of both
 companies.  @ Until Itaniums returns exceed the costs the Itanium project willC not have provided a positive return for HP and Intels shareholders.   C The fact the the historic costs have been written off is irrelevant @ thats just an accounting opinion, cash is fact and Itanium has a; very very long way to go before it generates positive cash.    Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 07:26:32 GMT 6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)" Subject: Re: DHCP startup problems5 Message-ID: <IG5Ta.303471$1F6.3054218@news.chello.at>   V In article <3F1C5C8E.61F4A422@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes:! >Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote: K >> 1) What you found. You won't get a lease, if you start DHCP client after O >> DECnet (or LAT, which has DECnet comptible addresses as default). I "solved" O >> it, by starting TCPIP in SYSMAN (CONFIG phase) _before_ DECnet gets started.  > ? >Remember that DHCP is very dependant on the ethernet address.    E Indeed it is. But the address is the only way to identify the client. L You can't rely on DHCP clients sending unique names or sending names at all.  O >It sends a broadcast on the ether stating "hi, I am aa-bb-cc-dd-ee-ff, with ip 5 >address 0.0.0.0, can some DHCP make me any offers ?"  > K >DHCP servers then respond by sending packets to that ethernet address. The L >client then sends a confirmation to one of the servers which will then sendO >the full package (DHCP response with all the option) to the client, confirming  >a lease etc etc.   F Yes. And there is already a difference. Some DHCP servers send all theK informations they have configured for the client (like TCPIP, TCPware, ...) M and some send only infos which the client has requested (like M$, LINUX, ...)   F >I recall looking into this last year or 2 years ago, and perhaps HoffO >providing some code to get the real hardware address of an interface with some  >QIO calls.   & Why QIO ? A simple NCL solves it, too.  . $ NCL SHO CSMA STA * HAR ADD, MAC ADD, ADD FIL  J >Perhaps the DHCP client software obtains the real hardware address of theO >ethernet interface instead of acquiring the functional one (eg: the one set by L >decnet), and the "respond to" address included inside the DHCP request thenJ >doesn't match the decnet-set address that the interface is listening for.  N No, it's the opposite. The DHCP client obtains/uses the DECnet address insteadH of the Hardware address while the rest of the IP stack uses the HardwareH Address (and DECnet uses the DECnet address in parallel). Or so it seemsJ (I still have to doublecheck to be sure). Iff this is right, then the onlyJ solution is to start the DHCP-client before DECnet (and LAT) which is whatI I did, or to wait for a fixed versions of the DHCP client (one which uses . the same address as the rest of the IP stack).   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 11:14:41 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>" Subject: Re: DHCP startup problems) Message-ID: <3F1D54E0.B5279B83@istop.com>    "John E. Malmberg" wrote: J > There appears to be a way to tell the DHCP server what hostname you haveJ > so that it can update a DNS server.  I have not looked at how to do that	 > either.     I Yep, with TCPIP 5.3, the DHCP server has the ability. You can give it the G equivalent of a template to use for a host name and it will dynamically J generate a host name which gets transmitted to the DNS server and will get zapped once the lease expires.  M I haven't tested static allocations to see if you can have a static host name H associated with a static IP address (associated to a MAC address), but IM supposed it would also be possible. (although in that case, while it may help A centralise management, I am not sure it would really be worth it.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 11:31:13 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>" Subject: Re: DHCP startup problems) Message-ID: <3F1D58BF.B0B7C84C@istop.com>     Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote:( > Why QIO ? A simple NCL solves it, too.  M I doubt that the DHCP client really wants to spawn a suprocess that has fancy I code to start either NCL or NCP to find out the ethernet address and then M parse the various output formats to get it into a usable form. QIO is the way  to go.  P > No, it's the opposite. The DHCP client obtains/uses the DECnet address insteadJ > of the Hardware address while the rest of the IP stack uses the Hardware	 > Address   L TCPIP 5.3 on VAX uses the DECNET address. (the real decnet, not that phase 5M stuff) (decnet started early in boot, TCPIP started late in boot). TCPIP SHOW 5 ARP from another node reveals an aa-00 ether address.   K You'd have to use ethermon to monitor the outbound DHCP request to see what M ethernet address is used in the *contents* of the packet. ( the actual "from" H in the ethernet packet is not a reliable piece of information since DHCPS packets can be relayed in which case, the ethernet "from" becomes that of a router.   K > I did, or to wait for a fixed versions of the DHCP client (one which uses 0 > the same address as the rest of the IP stack).  J I haven't tried the DHCP client. However, in the RFC, it is mentioned thatK ~often~, the DHCP client needs to execute before the IP stack is up. (since 0 the IP stack would have no IP address etc etc).   L Does the DHCP client on VMS have the ability to run by itself, or must it be& started only after TCPIP has started ?  5 In your case, is the DHCP server under your control ?    ------------------------------    Date: 22 Jul 2003 08:56:09 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) P Subject: Re: Does RT-11 run on the PDP-11/70?  (was Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates)3 Message-ID: <PRQ32S+88oCk@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ` In article <TV1Ta.6427$9f7.758087@news02.tsnz.net>, don@news.daedalus.co.nz (Don Stokes) writes:+ > In article <4+Y7aD$kEX4p@elias.decus.ch>, , > Paul Sture <p_sture@elias.decus.ch> wrote:0 >>The 11/780 console floppy was an RT-11 volume. > I > Quite a lot of things were.  RT-11 volumes were (a) simple, (b) kind of D > a lowest common denominator; ever pdp11/VAX platform support RT-118 > volumes to some extent, e.g. through FLX or EXCHANGE.   7    VMS' EXCHANGE utility runs just fine on Alphas, too.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 15:09:54 +1000 C From: "Christine Ricketts/Andrew Stewart" <u1276a@uxnxixtxe.com.au> O Subject: Re: Does RT-11 run on the PDP-11/70? (was Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates) , Message-ID: <3f1cc98f_1@news.iprimus.com.au>  + "Megan" <mbg@TheWorld.com> wrote in message " news:bfcqoj$s8j$1@pcls4.std.com...G > "Christine Ricketts/Andrew Stewart" <u1276a@uxnxixtxe.com.au> writes:  [cut]  > B > >Interesting.  The RT-11 V5.5 SPD does not mention the PDP-11/70A > >yet p257 of the RT-11 V5.5 Mini Reference Manual has bit 14 of B > >the Configuration Word 2 is set if it is a PDP-11/70 processor. > H > RT-11 does indeed run on 11/70s, though for some reason I forget afterF > so many years, we couldn't specifically say that it was supported on > same.  > A > >Was this used for the RT-11 Emulation under RSTS/E and/or RSX, ) > >or did RT-11 run native on this beast?  > E > It runs native... I used to run it all the time back in the V3 days D > on an 11/70 at DEC in the ed services lab at PK2 (when ed services > was in maynard).   Most interesting.  Thanks.  0 > >PS.  I was told RT-11 runs on the VAX-11/780,/ > >very easily on the LSI-11 console processor, A > >at least once in compatability mode for testing purposes.  :-)  > E > I never tried running it on the Console of the VAX, though it would F > probably work just fine (though one drive is a bit cramped).  As for9 > running on a VAX, only on one which has RTEM installed.  > 6 >                                         Megan Gentry@ >                                         Former RT-11 Developer  < The VAX-11/780 had a bit in the PSW so that it would execute: a subset of PDP-11 instructions, aka "compatability mode".( No Memory Management, No Floating Point.  9 I was told that someone "munged" up some VAX-11 Boot Code 6 that set up the VAX-11 machine environment so that the9 PDP-11 Compatability Mode could access devices in Bank 7,  then booted RT-11 SJ and/or FB.    Regards, Andy.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 06:21:47 GMT  From: ian@hammo.com (paramucho) O Subject: Re: Does RT-11 run on the PDP-11/70? (was Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates) 1 Message-ID: <3f1ed60c.4257014@news.supernews.com>   > On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 15:09:54 +1000, "Christine Ricketts/Andrew) Stewart" <u1276a@uxnxixtxe.com.au> wrote:    > , >"Megan" <mbg@TheWorld.com> wrote in message# >news:bfcqoj$s8j$1@pcls4.std.com... H >> "Christine Ricketts/Andrew Stewart" <u1276a@uxnxixtxe.com.au> writes: >[cut] >>C >> >Interesting.  The RT-11 V5.5 SPD does not mention the PDP-11/70 B >> >yet p257 of the RT-11 V5.5 Mini Reference Manual has bit 14 ofC >> >the Configuration Word 2 is set if it is a PDP-11/70 processor.  >>I >> RT-11 does indeed run on 11/70s, though for some reason I forget after G >> so many years, we couldn't specifically say that it was supported on  >> same. >>B >> >Was this used for the RT-11 Emulation under RSTS/E and/or RSX,* >> >or did RT-11 run native on this beast? >>F >> It runs native... I used to run it all the time back in the V3 daysE >> on an 11/70 at DEC in the ed services lab at PK2 (when ed services  >> was in maynard).  >  >Most interesting.  Thanks.  > 1 >> >PS.  I was told RT-11 runs on the VAX-11/780, 0 >> >very easily on the LSI-11 console processor,B >> >at least once in compatability mode for testing purposes.  :-) >>F >> I never tried running it on the Console of the VAX, though it wouldG >> probably work just fine (though one drive is a bit cramped).  As for : >> running on a VAX, only on one which has RTEM installed. >>7 >>                                         Megan Gentry A >>                                         Former RT-11 Developer  > = >The VAX-11/780 had a bit in the PSW so that it would execute ; >a subset of PDP-11 instructions, aka "compatability mode". ) >No Memory Management, No Floating Point.  > : >I was told that someone "munged" up some VAX-11 Boot Code7 >that set up the VAX-11 machine environment so that the : >PDP-11 Compatability Mode could access devices in Bank 7,  >then booted RT-11 SJ and/or FB.  @ That's a cool idea. It would have needed some VM support.  A VAXF converts PDP-11 interrupts into VAX signals -- so something would haveE had to thunk them back to the PDP-11. Hardware interrupts would wouldnD have been caught in native mode and thunked into the PDP-11 space asC well. Other code would probably have caught attempts to write to anD? unmapped I/O page and then translated those as appropriate.  ItO> wouldn't have taken much code though, and voila, a useful VAX.     -- Ian " Impressive If Haughty - Q Magazine   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 04:49:03 -0400l  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>O Subject: Re: Does RT-11 run on the PDP-11/70? (was Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates) 4 Message-ID: <1030722044505.410A-100000@Ives.egh.com>  $ On 21 Jul 2003, Zane H. Healy wrote:  K > In alt.sys.pdp10 Bill/Carolyn Pechter <pechter@shell.monmouth.com> wrote:D& > > The RT11 console was on the 86x0.  > I > Wasn't the console for those either a Pro350 or Pro380 running some odda > verison of P/OS. >  > 		Zane  D I think you're thinking of the 85x0/8700/88x0's, which had Pros withG P/OS as consoles.  I can't remember if they were 350's, 380's, or both.   B I think the 8600/8650 had a PDP-11 console with an RL02 instead of1 a floppy.  No idea what O/S (if any) was on them.t   -- o John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Jul 2003 08:55:08 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)eO Subject: Re: Does RT-11 run on the PDP-11/70? (was Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates)C3 Message-ID: <EK+e+9q6A+aj@eisner.encompasserve.org>w  g In article <bfea6s$fku$1@shell.monmouth.com>, pechter@shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) writes: K > In article <bfcqoj$s8j$1@pcls4.std.com>, Megan  <mbg@TheWorld.com> wrote:o >>L >>I never tried running [RT11] it on the Console of the VAX, though it wouldF >>probably work just fine (though one drive is a bit cramped).  As for9 >>running on a VAX, only on one which has RTEM installed.  >>6 >>                                        Megan Gentry@ >>                                        Former RT-11 Developer > $ > The RT11 console was on the 86x0.  > B > I don't think the stuff that ran on the 11/780 was RT11 although > it used that disk format.   B    The 11/780 console LSI-11 did not run RT-11, but it sure looked    RT-11 based..   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 15:37:57 GMT- From: ian@hammo.com (paramucho)oO Subject: Re: Does RT-11 run on the PDP-11/70? (was Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates) 1 Message-ID: <3f1e5a0c.1174277@news.supernews.com>   F On 22 Jul 2003 08:55:08 -0500, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote:  h >In article <bfea6s$fku$1@shell.monmouth.com>, pechter@shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) writes:L >> In article <bfcqoj$s8j$1@pcls4.std.com>, Megan  <mbg@TheWorld.com> wrote: >>>kM >>>I never tried running [RT11] it on the Console of the VAX, though it wouldkG >>>probably work just fine (though one drive is a bit cramped).  As form: >>>running on a VAX, only on one which has RTEM installed. >>> 7 >>>                                        Megan GentryrA >>>                                        Former RT-11 Developerv >> w% >> The RT11 console was on the 86x0. r >> tC >> I don't think the stuff that ran on the 11/780 was RT11 althoughr >> it used that disk format. >iC >   The 11/780 console LSI-11 did not run RT-11, but it sure looked  >   RT-11 based.  @ Well, that's wierd because the RT-11 RL01/RL02 device driver hadF extensive (and extremely horrible) modifications to support the 11/7808 console disk. Perhaps it just didn't *say* it was RT-11.       -- Ian " Impressive If Haughty - Q Magazine   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 16:01:41 GMTa& From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net> Subject: Re: EMC on VMS 8 Message-ID: <tunqhvcksnqkqdki51gu7jdg7crom9um0b@4ax.com>  H On 18 Jul 2003 16:18:52 -0700, prosullivan@aol.com (prosullivan@aol.com) wrote:   >Not supporting-C >> them makes our VMS customers doubt EMC's depth of committment toe  >> support for the VMS platform. >oE >I wouldn't complain about EMC too much with storage and VMS when youcB >look at all the other storage vendors, not least HP's struggle toD >support non-compaq platforms). At least EMC support VMS boot of EMCB >disks (even if HP do not), and their support for sharing OS's andD >versions on the same Symmetrix beat the HSG family all ends up. HSVA >support for non-compaq platforms isn't exactly there either. (astB >anyone who has tried to use IBM's or Sun's on HSG will tell you).  E Not sure what your problems are with HSG, but we implement many, manyaH multi-platform SANs using HSG andHSV (EVA).  And you CAN boot VMS off of them.n   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Jul 2003 07:57:38 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)u! Subject: Re: FS: 1986 Olds Calaist3 Message-ID: <GMS91WGxy11$@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  ^ In article <phdSa.7079$eP6.1016694@news20.bellglobal.com>, "JustMe" <no.body@no.where> writes:? > Don't be ridiculous; everyone knows that Oldsmobiles only run  > NetBSD.............. >   H    No, that was your father's Oldmobile.  Modern Olds run Windows CE and+    have the sales figures to prove it.  ;-)u   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 12:04:54 -0500u, From: Gary L. Ross <rossgl@parknicollet.com>U Subject: FS: VMS Software Product & Online Documentation Library - For Sale.txt (0/1) 8 Message-ID: <1erqhvk26ar07b9qp6pkivk9o1v2uracfd@4ax.com>  C Here is a list of what we are getting rid of.  If you're interestedb; in any of these items for sale, please contact me.  Thanks.c   Gary L. Ross rossgl@parknicollet.comm   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 12:04:55 -0500s, From: Gary L. Ross <rossgl@parknicollet.com>U Subject: FS: VMS Software Product & Online Documentation Library - For Sale.txt (1/1)u8 Message-ID: <nlrqhv033htutevdmoks16fnrvpuhq41j8@4ax.com>   begin 644 For Sale.txt= M1&%T90D)1&5S8W)I<'1I;VX)"0D)"0D)"0E4;W1A;"!$:7-K<PT*1F5B<G5Ag= M<GD@,3DY-@E$24=)5$%,($Y!4R!V+C@N,"!F;W(@3W!E;E9-4R!!;'!H80D).= M"0D)"3(-"D9E8G)U87)Y(#$Y.38)1$E'251!3"!.05,@=BXX+C`@9F]R($]Pg= M96Y635,@06QP:&$@1&]C=6UE;G1A=&EO;@D)"0DQ"0T*075G=7-T(#$Y.38)a= M1$5#979E;G0@571I;&ET>2!V+C(N,B!F;W(@3W!E;E9-4R!!;'!H80D)"0D)e= M,0D-"E-E<'1E;6)E<B`Q.3DV"4%L<&AA(%-Y<W1E;7,@1FER;7=A<F4@57!D = M871E('8N,RXW"0D)"0D),0D-"E-E<'1E;6)E<B`Q.3DV"4]P96Y635,@06QPa= M:&$@3VYL:6YE($1O8W5M96YT871I;VX@3&EB<F%R>0D)"0D),@D-"E-E<'1E 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= M<B!!;'!H82!/<&5N5DU3"0D)"3$)#0I/8W1O8F5R(#(P,#()0V]M<&%Q(%!A = M=&AW;W)K<R`S,B!V+C<N,PD)"0D)"0DQ"0T*/PD)0G5S:6YE<W,@0W)I=&ECr= M86P@4V]L=71I;VYS(&9O<B!/<&5N5DU3(#(P,#$)"0D)"3$)#0H_"0E$24=)u= M5$%,($5N=&5R<')I<V4@26YT96=R871I;VX@4V5R=F5R('8N,2XP"0D)"0DT  "#0I,  `y end    ------------------------------    Date: 22 Jul 2003 08:30:15 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler): Subject: Re: HP FUDBusting3 Message-ID: <DEH4oMiqhThz@eisner.encompasserve.org>c  h In article <d7791aa1.0307201558.7613bc22@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:  9 > we are not talking about management, you stated vms wasf1 > security thru obscurity which is 100% false ...o% > don't try to change the subject ...-  &    Gee, did everybody miss his smiley?   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Jul 2003 08:08:04 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: HP FUDBusting3 Message-ID: <237fMmuEMtSc@eisner.encompasserve.org>   _ In article <EJ2cnXqAj_h094WiXTWJjQ@metrocast.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:D > J > "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in message/ > news:medSLAinDyGR@eisner.encompasserve.org...a >.9 >>    You will, of course, here much FUD about VMS dying.a >  > Possibly because ...  H    See, I told you so.  Some of these quys are more predictable than the	    tides.    ------------------------------    Date: 22 Jul 2003 08:50:44 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)P Subject: Re: HP FUDBusting3 Message-ID: <oRba7g9cfdzM@eisner.encompasserve.org>   a In article <20030721155805.6f3aee4d.hoendech@ecc.lu>, Stefaan A Eeckels <hoendech@ecc.lu> writes:e > < > I did some work on VMS way back in 1986-1987, but I'm more9 > of a Unix man by heart (I guess people who're primarly y> > programmers prefer Unix, whereas administrators prefer VMS).  A    Guess again.  Just because you like to program on UNIX doesn'tp    make it universal.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 11:10:03 -0400o* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Re: HP FUDBusting2 Message-ID: <n1OdnQqSVt1FzoCiXTWJhQ@metrocast.net>  H "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:237fMmuEMtSc@eisner.encompasserve.org... @ > In article <EJ2cnXqAj_h094WiXTWJjQ@metrocast.net>, "Bill Todd"  <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes: > >tL > > "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in message1 > > news:medSLAinDyGR@eisner.encompasserve.org...  > >a; > >>    You will, of course, here much FUD about VMS dying.J > >  > > Possibly because ... >@J >    See, I told you so.  Some of these quys are more predictable than the >    tides.g  L Of course:  you don't think that people are just going to *forget* about the= way Alpha's unequivocally 'committed' future was suddenly andaD unceremoniously axed with zero warning, do you?  And be blind to the$ parallels that apply equally to VMS?  I 'Full disclosure' is my motto.  You're equally free to try to explain whywL people should place their business' futures in cHumPaq's hands (very much asJ the 'commitment to Alpha' letter encouraged them to do less than two yearsL before the rug got yanked out) - though coming up with *concrete* reasons toK do so may be something of a challenge, given the historical record plus the J current minimal investment in VMS development and on-going zero investment in VMS marketing.h   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 13:43:42 GMTh# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>p4 Subject: Re: HP World: Why Alpha's Omega Makes SenseH Message-ID: <icbTa.36900$zwL.33081@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  7 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message-# news:3F1C94A1.73A03407@istop.com...2 > Rob Young wrote:A > >         Itaniums).  That price curve is just getting started.o Itanium willC > >         suck the air right out of Power and UltraSparc margins.  That is/was2C > >         what Compaq was facing with Alpha - among other things.o >iD > Any company who puts the success of its own products ahead of that of itsA > competitors would have taken Intel to the cleaners for stealingt AlphawD > technologies for the 8086/Pentium, and would then have taken Intel to theD > Federal Trade Comission for unfairly  dumping of the IA64 product,
 as well as= > using monopoliostic tactics to bully manufacturers to startM producing some > IA64 systems.E >SC > Any company that puts its competitor's products ahead of its own,t	 and whose A > shareholders don't revolt deserves to die. Digital died, CompaqE died. Carly C > seems to have similar philosophy. How long will it take for HP toM	 sink ? Ort1 > will HP realise the trend and stop it in time ?u  F HP can always kill the computer systems divisions, both enterprise andE PeeCee, in their entirety and improve profitability in the process byp$ focusing on being a printer company.  B Don't be surprised if it happens. The MBA's with their calculators9 will one day figure out that doing exactly that is in the B shareholder's best interest, and come full circle to agreeing with Walter Hewlett.1   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 08:02:46 GMT * From: "Mark Buda" <buda_NO@SPAM.yahoo.com>Y Subject: Re: IDC reports PC Market Share: Dell over HP by a nose; both pulling away from e; Message-ID: <Gc6Ta.10472$8g6.62275@news1.news.adelphia.net>d  K "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> ; wrote in message news:bfh172$m94$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com...-, > UNIX number one                        NOT, > PC business returning to profitability NOT, > Ditto Enterprise Division              NOT, > Merger complete                        NOT, > Its good to be second                  NOT  * It's good to own Sun stock             NOT2 Andrew never stretches his nose or the truth   NOT  L Actually I enjoy reading Andrews spiffs so much I have a filter just to find< his "messages from on high."  Everyone needs a good chuckle!   mark   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 09:59:34 +0000 (UTC)y) From: Dan Foster <dsf@globalcrossing.net>>Y Subject: Re: IDC reports PC Market Share: Dell over HP by a nose; both pulling away from s3 Message-ID: <slrnbhq2od.13v.dsf@gaia.roc2.gblx.net>    In article <bfivq7$cjv$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote:u > < > HP is not the number one UNIX vendor despite their claims.  K Wouldn't that be Apple in terms of sold systems running UNIX? With MacOS X,hI they likely have a legitimate claim with millions of them sold? Even in a J good year, I don't think any of the traditional big UNIX vendors can lay a claim to have done the same.  J But I digress. Quite honestly, I have to say I don't particularly care perG se if Dell (or any other vendor) leads HP by a nose or not. If I have afD system and have business needs for running apps on that hardware andJ software platform, and as long as the company is committed to a reasonablyI long-term future, I don't really care how they stack up to competitors astI the differences are usually small in a competitive market or needs may beaH sufficiently specialized in certain cases to require specific solutions.  H I have yet to see a purchasing decision at my organisation done based onG "Ok, who's popular today? Quick, look up what Gartner says - let's base( purchasing decisions on that".   -Dan   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Jul 2003 08:13:22 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)iY Subject: Re: IDC reports PC Market Share: Dell over HP by a nose; both pulling away from u3 Message-ID: <ZsS1GlTFTjCW@eisner.encompasserve.org>f  q In article <cf15391e.0307181153.5214f874@posting.google.com>, keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) writes:Y( > From Interex's HP World News, July 17: > G > Mike Elgan comments on the real story behind the latest numbers.  See : > http://www.interex.org/hpwnews/content/hpwn07.17.03.html >  > Also,  > * > "HP comments on IDC PC market share data > E > Market research firm IDC has said that PC sales grew by 7.6 percentgG > year over year worldwide, ahead of the projected 4.1 percent. "The PCaB > growth is good news for the industry," HP said. "Once again thisF > quarter, the race continues to be a two-horse competition between HP > and Dell."    ,    Yeah, but have they made any money on it?   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 10:23:18 +0100cO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>oY Subject: Re: IDC reports PC Market Share: Dell over HP by a nose; both pulling away from y0 Message-ID: <bfivq7$cjv$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Mark Buda wrote:M > "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>m= > wrote in message news:bfh172$m94$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com...m > , >>UNIX number one                        NOT, >>PC business returning to profitability NOT, >>Ditto Enterprise Division              NOT, >>Merger complete                        NOT, >>Its good to be second                  NOT >  > , > It's good to own Sun stock             NOT4 > Andrew never stretches his nose or the truth   NOT >   % So which of my points was incorrect ?h  : HP is not the number one UNIX vendor despite their claims.> The PC division has not turned around, R&D costs for PC's have+ simply been moved into another cost bucket.k Ditto Enterprise systems. 7 The merger isn't complete it will only be complete whent5 all the product lines have merged and that is nowhereh near being the case.4 And its never good to be second when you were first.   These are all facts.  8 But I guess we will never know what you think about them= since you made the mistake of attacking the messenger and notk the message.  $ Always a sign of a failing argument.   Regardsm Andrew Harrisona   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Jul 2003 00:08:37 -0700' From: icerq4a@spray.se (David Svensson)-5 Subject: Re: IDC: HP ranks No. 1 in 2002 HPTC revenue0= Message-ID: <734da31c.0307212308.3ca49567@posting.google.com>D   Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<bfh0jr$lsd$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...P > Keith Parris wrote:o  > > From HP World News, July 17: > > > > > "HP ranks No. 1 in 2002 high-performance computing revenue > > R > > HP cited industry research firm IDC to claim it is the worldwide market leaderR > > for High Performance Technical Computing (HPTC) in 2002. IDC's "Worldwide HighM > > Performance Systems Technical Computing Census 2002" report shows that HP R > > commands 34 percent revenue share, more than a five percentage point lead over	 > > IBM."t > > 0 > > http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/030714/145265_1.html >  > C > Shame that the 3 big DARPA contracts for HPTC systems in the HPCSh= > program have gone in a pretty even split of ~50 million pero > company to IBM, Sun and Cray.-  A I can understand that Sun and Cray are in need for help, but IBM?f   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 06:03:19 -04003* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>Y Subject: Re: Intel's had Dirty Bombs Anthrax and everything! (Was: Re: HP World: Why Alphe2 Message-ID: <PiidnTOTZu1uloCiXTWJiA@metrocast.net>  D "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> wrote in message) news:PhVSa.509$hU.317@news.cpqcorp.net...eH > Now, now.  Bill is the Ralph Nader of the computer industry.  He is anJ > altruistic and brilliant analyst who fights only for Truth, Justice, and ther% > Ame... ah... the... well - his way.   I Since I really do believe that the values which I espouse are pretty muchaL traditional American values (competence, honesty, integrity, accountability,J competition), you don't have to worry too much about which formulation you
 choose above.'   >e! > Just to keep things straight...b  F Seems as usual that you need a little help, Fred - glad to provide it.   >h' > Bill is not a disgrunted ex-employee.h  J You say that as if I might have some personal bone to pick with HP - or at least with Compaq.  L I left DEC in 1987, Fred - with considerable regret, but without any anger -I because it just wasn't heading in the directions I thought it should.  OfhJ course, it turned out that I was right (that happens a lot), but I took no joy in that either.   K I *was* happy, though, when Compaq took over and Pfeiffer started trying tocA do the good things with DEC's technology that Palmer hadn't.  ButCG unfortunately that didn't last long - and not long after Curly took the J reins it became clear (as I said right here) that Compaq was not (at leastH any longer) a company comfortable with being responsible for significantJ technology rather than just assembling the technology developed by others.  D Of course I was right about that, too.  But I still took the time toJ participate heavily in a VMS advocacy group to try to open Curly's eyes to VMS's potential.  ) > Bill is not just PO'ed about the world.D  @ Nope - mostly about cHumPaq's behavior since June, 2001, and theG reprehensible behavior of the Republican party since 1998 (with specialaL emphasis on that of the current Administration since Sepember, 2001).  Don't- have much problem with the rest of the world.a  % > Bill is not just PO'ed about Alpha.1= > Bill is not just PO'ed about every CEO since Ken was fired.   G I liked what Pfeiffer was doing.  If you can't understand the degree of-L incompetence displayed by Palmer and Capellas, then you're as incompetent as
 they were.   > Bill is not just bored..  H I'm seldom bored, Fred:  I wish keeping an eye on cHumPaq's toadies hereK didn't take as much time as it does, but it's a commitment (you may need tooI look that up if you understand it as poorly as your employer does) that Ie took on voluntarily.  $ > Bill does not just want attention.  F Even if you don't understand much else, Fred, you really ought to haveF caught on by now to the fact that I don't give a flying fuck what most$ people may choose to think about me.  = > Bill is not a fictional character from Pinky and the Brain./  3 Cartoons do seem to be about your speed these days.e   >wJ > He is not any of those things.  He only has the best interests of us all atK > heart.  And when he runs the world, things will be better.  A lot better.a > Really, really better.  H Confused again, Fred?  I have no desire to run the world - just a strongJ opposition to seeing it run by the kind of sleazes you work for.  And I'veK had sufficient success in my efforts in this particular area to consider ite worthwhile to continue.i   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 11:39:07 -0400i* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>Y Subject: Re: Intel's had Dirty Bombs Anthrax and everything! (Was: Re: HP World: Why Alphr) Message-ID: <3F1D5A99.5CA60890@istop.com>n   Bill Todd wrote:I > I liked what Pfeiffer was doing.  If you can't understand the degree ofeN > incompetence displayed by Palmer and Capellas, then you're as incompetent as > they were.  N I still remember the 2 page centerfold ad in Time magazine with the gas pumps,N with the first one being labeled "VMS". This was really early after the compaqL purchase of the dying digital, and it gave me lots of hope that Compaq would bring back VMS.   N Unfortunatly, shortly after that, Compaq fired its own ad agency and hired the? one that had served Digital and it was all downhill from there.-  J As far as Pfeiffer is concerned, while he may have been more VMS and AlphaN friendly, does anyone have any comments on whether he was truly incompetent inN the merger process ? Is it possible that he did all the right things and CurlyJ only had to sit down and do nothing to let Pfeiffer's work take effect and6 then claim that he (Curly) managed to fix the merger ?   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Jul 2003 07:44:27 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: Memory allocation3 Message-ID: <nTZ5ZGfaSsSo@eisner.encompasserve.org>   i In article <1fe424ce.0307180512.75ed657@posting.google.com>, b.seghers@europe.com (Seghers Bruno) writes:pH > I have a lingering doubt in my mind over programs using virtual memoryG > like MALLOC in C or LIB$GET_VM. I have a feeling that at one time youwH > had to deallocate the memory before logout or it was lost to all users > andS > became like a memory leak.      Not on VMS.  Ever.e  E    You can create permanent global sections if you're privilged.  YouVC    shouldn't be given privileges if you don't know how to use them.s   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Jul 2003 05:08:52 -07002 From: filip.de.block@proximus.net (Filip De Block)' Subject: missing multiple blocking ASTsc= Message-ID: <8366afbe.0307220408.6f25cd35@posting.google.com>p   Hi  , Process #1 takes a lock on a give resource :7 1. $ENQ for this resource with NL (granted immediately)i* 2. $ENQ (convert) to EX, specifying BLKAST 3. goto hibernate   : Process #2 (same UIC, same cluster) tries to do the same :7 1. $ENQ for same resource with NL (granted immediately) * 2. $ENQ (convert) to EX, specifying BLKASTF     The lock is not granted (immediately), but as expected, the BLKAST is triggered in PRC #1  E PRC#1 decides (inside its BLKAST that is now active) to keep the lockl? for itself and do nothing. This leaves us with the second 'lock-, conversion request' on the conversion queue.  E After some time, PRC #2 decides to die, since it cannot get the lock, F hereby removing the usermode lock from the conversion queue, as can be seen by SDA.  E A new process is created (PRC #2bis) that does exactly the same thing- : < requesting an EX lock (via conversion) on the same resource.  E But this time the blocking AST for PRC #1 is not fired, and hence PRCe$ #1 does not know about a competitor.  ( Anyone an idea how to get this working ?
 advTHANKSance    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 11:34:32 -0400h% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>a+ Subject: Re: missing multiple blocking ASTsg/ Message-ID: <vhqmc39pca1b91@news.supernews.com>-  ? "Filip De Block" <filip.de.block@proximus.net> wrote in message@7 news:8366afbe.0307220408.6f25cd35@posting.google.com...w > Hi >P. > Process #1 takes a lock on a give resource :9 > 1. $ENQ for this resource with NL (granted immediately)l, > 2. $ENQ (convert) to EX, specifying BLKAST > 3. goto hibernatem >o< > Process #2 (same UIC, same cluster) tries to do the same :9 > 1. $ENQ for same resource with NL (granted immediately)n, > 2. $ENQ (convert) to EX, specifying BLKASTH >     The lock is not granted (immediately), but as expected, the BLKAST > is triggered in PRC #1 >rG > PRC#1 decides (inside its BLKAST that is now active) to keep the lock A > for itself and do nothing. This leaves us with the second 'lock/. > conversion request' on the conversion queue. >nG > After some time, PRC #2 decides to die, since it cannot get the lock,-H > hereby removing the usermode lock from the conversion queue, as can be > seen by SDA. >bG > A new process is created (PRC #2bis) that does exactly the same thing  > :l> > requesting an EX lock (via conversion) on the same resource. > G > But this time the blocking AST for PRC #1 is not fired, and hence PRCm& > #1 does not know about a competitor. >c* > Anyone an idea how to get this working ?  I Process #1 must convert the lock from EX to EX to reset the blocking AST.o   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 16:29:19 GMTs; From: "John Gemignani, Jr." <jon-nope@thiswontworkossc.net>c+ Subject: Re: missing multiple blocking ASTs < Message-ID: <zDdTa.27156$8g6.183112@news1.news.adelphia.net>  0 "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> wrote in message) news:vhqmc39pca1b91@news.supernews.com...'A > "Filip De Block" <filip.de.block@proximus.net> wrote in messagee9 > news:8366afbe.0307220408.6f25cd35@posting.google.com...t > > Hi > >u0 > > Process #1 takes a lock on a give resource :; > > 1. $ENQ for this resource with NL (granted immediately)r. > > 2. $ENQ (convert) to EX, specifying BLKAST > > 3. goto hibernate1 > > > > > Process #2 (same UIC, same cluster) tries to do the same :; > > 1. $ENQ for same resource with NL (granted immediately)l. > > 2. $ENQ (convert) to EX, specifying BLKASTJ > >     The lock is not granted (immediately), but as expected, the BLKAST > > is triggered in PRC #1 > >wI > > PRC#1 decides (inside its BLKAST that is now active) to keep the lockmC > > for itself and do nothing. This leaves us with the second 'lockt0 > > conversion request' on the conversion queue. > >hI > > After some time, PRC #2 decides to die, since it cannot get the lock,eJ > > hereby removing the usermode lock from the conversion queue, as can be > > seen by SDA. > > I > > A new process is created (PRC #2bis) that does exactly the same thing1 > > :l@ > > requesting an EX lock (via conversion) on the same resource. > >1I > > But this time the blocking AST for PRC #1 is not fired, and hence PRCc( > > #1 does not know about a competitor. > >o, > > Anyone an idea how to get this working ? >uK > Process #1 must convert the lock from EX to EX to reset the blocking AST.m >f >t  K You only get one blocking AST per conversion.  If you convert the lock downTJ to something compatible with the other process (NL always works) then backL up to EX, the second locker will get the lock, receive a blocking AST (if itH set one), release the lock (I hope), and your conversion back to EX will obtain it again.  G Are you using the lock to pass state/context information (via the value@- block) or to synchronize access to something?a   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 08:37:12 +0200t From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>, Subject: Re: Mozilla... the new NULL process2 Message-ID: <bfim65$oou$1@news3.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>   VAXman- wrote:g > In article <MdWSa.6250$KZ.2983182@news1.news.adelphia.net>, Colin Blake <colin@theblakes.com> writes:  >  >>VAXman- wrote: >> >>J >>>Well then an AS1200 with 2 CPUs is hereforthwith to be known as a real , >>>slow system and will be retagged RSS1200. >>E >>Running something such as MON PROC/TOPC you shouldn't even SEE the  < >>mozilla process on a system like that. Something is amiss. >> >  > E > Well I am running it now on an AS200 4/233 ( I'd like the cycles ondG > the AS1200 to be used for something useful) and it's eating up a con-e7 > sistent 35-38% according to MONITOR PROCESS/TOPCPU.  .    N On a 466MHz DS10 between 8 and 25% (after watching monitor for about 30 sec.).  Q You can't blame Colin for this. To prevent excessive porting effort on every new eP (sub-)version of Mozilla, he tries to stay as close as possible to the original O Unix sources. Otherwise new versions would be out much later, and against much   higher costs for HP.  M That is a good example of what we see happening with much of the ported Unix  N software. Most of the porting is done with the minimum affort possible, so in N effect VMS is used as a Unix emulator. For switches we get the infamous -A -x P stuff etc, instead of the VMS switches /output= etc, the files are in Stream-LF P format, and more seriously polling is used instead of interrupt driven routines.  I Try to compile open source software under VMS, in some cases you will be  0 bombarded with compiler warnings and errors.....   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Jul 2003 09:59:49 -00004 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]>, Subject: Re: Mozilla... the new NULL process6 Message-ID: <20030722095949.20865.qmail@gacracker.org>  4 On Tue, 22 Jul 2003, Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> wrote:  M >You can't blame Colin for this. To prevent excessive porting effort on every2 >new (G >(sub-)version of Mozilla, he tries to stay as close as possible to theE
 >original P >Unix sources. Otherwise new versions would be out much later, and against much  >higher costs for HP.> >+N >That is a good example of what we see happening with much of the ported Unix O >software. Most of the porting is done with the minimum affort possible, so in QO >effect VMS is used as a Unix emulator. For switches we get the infamous -A -x "F >stuff etc, instead of the VMS switches /output= etc, the files are in >Stream-LF ]G >format, and more seriously polling is used instead of interrupt driven3
 >routines. >sJ >Try to compile open source software under VMS, in some cases you will be 1 >bombarded with compiler warnings and errors.....n  L Isn't it possible to do the same as is done with Perl? I.e. get VMS-specificE code included in the open source distribution, but only conditionally"	 compiled?3  * This would have at least two advantages...  E Firstly, unixisms that are detrimental to performance on VMS could be= eliminated.]  I Secondly, it'll say VMS in the source tree and remind people the platform=
 still exists.(     Doc. -- :K OpenVMS.         Eight out of ten hackers prefer *other* operating systems.1K [New PGP Key - Get via finger]        http://deathrow.vistech.net/BOFH/doc/=   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 11:05:59 GMT!" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG, Subject: Re: Mozilla... the new NULL process0 Message-ID: <00A233A8.2FE1ACD0@SendSpamHere.ORG>  b In article <bfhm2e$gcm$1@pcls4.std.com>, moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) writes:# >VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:, >QL >>>> Well then an AS1200 with 2 CPUs is hereforthwith to be known as a real . >>>> slow system and will be retagged RSS1200. >>>)F >>>Running something such as MON PROC/TOPC you shouldn't even SEE the = >>>mozilla process on a system like that. Something is amiss.] >>>3 >3E >>Well I am running it now on an AS200 4/233 ( I'd like the cycles on,G >>the AS1200 to be used for something useful) and it's eating up a con-(7 >>sistent 35-38% according to MONITOR PROCESS/TOPCPU.  9 >=I >Something is wrong.  I am also running Mozilla on an AS200 4/233 and the9L >idle Mozilla process is taking 1% of the CPU.  Sometimes it pops up to 2%,  >sometimes blank (less than 1%)2 >9L >Are you sure it's not repeatedly animating a complicated .GIF or something? >--  >-Mike  ; I wrote a page on and placed it on my server.  It contains:"  - <html><body>this page is blank.</body></html>$   Nothing too animated by this.=   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMo            (5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" P   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 11:08:57 GMT(" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG, Subject: Re: Mozilla... the new NULL process0 Message-ID: <00A233A8.9A20FCC8@SendSpamHere.ORG>  S In article <bfim65$oou$1@news3.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>, Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> writes:> >VAXman- wrote:%h >> In article <MdWSa.6250$KZ.2983182@news1.news.adelphia.net>, Colin Blake <colin@theblakes.com> writes: >> Y >>>VAXman- wrote:  >>>- >>>9K >>>>Well then an AS1200 with 2 CPUs is hereforthwith to be known as a real 8- >>>>slow system and will be retagged RSS1200." >>>TF >>>Running something such as MON PROC/TOPC you shouldn't even SEE the = >>>mozilla process on a system like that. Something is amiss.4 >>>9 >> , >> <F >> Well I am running it now on an AS200 4/233 ( I'd like the cycles onH >> the AS1200 to be used for something useful) and it's eating up a con-8 >> sistent 35-38% according to MONITOR PROCESS/TOPCPU.   >0 >iO >On a 466MHz DS10 between 8 and 25% (after watching monitor for about 30 sec.).U   So I'm not ths only one...    R >You can't blame Colin for this. To prevent excessive porting effort on every new Q >(sub-)version of Mozilla, he tries to stay as close as possible to the original ;P >Unix sources. Otherwise new versions would be out much later, and against much  >higher costs for HP.D  / I don't nor didn't blame Colin for any of this.Y    N >That is a good example of what we see happening with much of the ported Unix O >software. Most of the porting is done with the minimum affort possible, so in ;O >effect VMS is used as a Unix emulator. For switches we get the infamous -A -x -Q >stuff etc, instead of the VMS switches /output= etc, the files are in Stream-LF $Q >format, and more seriously polling is used instead of interrupt driven routines.%  , I've ported my share... lots of awful stuff.    J >Try to compile open source software under VMS, in some cases you will be 1 >bombarded with compiler warnings and errors.....U  " ... and configuration braindamage. --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM4            =5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" (   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Jul 2003 08:16:30 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)(, Subject: Re: Mozilla... the new NULL process3 Message-ID: <878Ja$CiHx2a@eisner.encompasserve.org>#  U In article <00A230CF.38A10C27@SendSpamHere.ORG>,   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:D > OK,I > I > Why does Mozilla eatup CPU cycles when it is sitting on a web page with$L > nothing actively changing?  No Javascript, Java, etc.  As a test I created > a page with:  C    Mozilla has to poll between VMS event flags and socket select(),,E    because the authors of the VMS port didn't want to rewrite all the=    socket select() stuff.#  G    COE work to expand the coverage of select() to non-socket interfaces0*    should at least partially solve this.    G    IIRC there is a logical name than can be used to control the polling4	    speed.8   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Jul 2003 06:35:34 -0500B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)' Subject: Re: New OpenVMS-to-Itanium FAQ<3 Message-ID: <jwHVJZYbgA83@eisner.encompasserve.org>-  h In article <faf7c984.0307210635.34958dd1@posting.google.com>, stan@stanq.com (Stanley F. Quayle) writes: > F > There's another choice, too.  Software Resources International has a, > PL/1 to C++ translation service available. >   H If PL/1 advocates are anything like Ada advocates, then that option will( be looked on less than favourably... :-)  J [Tom has previously indicated that PL/1 tends to be used by people wishingI to write high quality reliable software and wanting to do it in something8= other than C++; the same kind of people that Ada appeals to.]8  6 BTW, is it PL/1 or PL/I ? I thought it was the latter.   Simon.   -- =B Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       L VMS advocate: One who makes a Mac advocate look like a beginner at advocacy.   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Jul 2003 09:14:47 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)]' Subject: Re: New OpenVMS-to-Itanium FAQ;3 Message-ID: <RIW9av1ku0qo@eisner.encompasserve.org>(  x In article <jwHVJZYbgA83@eisner.encompasserve.org>, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) writes:j > In article <faf7c984.0307210635.34958dd1@posting.google.com>, stan@stanq.com (Stanley F. Quayle) writes: >> "G >> There's another choice, too.  Software Resources International has aU- >> PL/1 to C++ translation service available.D >> # > J > If PL/1 advocates are anything like Ada advocates, then that option will* > be looked on less than favourably... :-)  ?    I don't know about SRI's duct, but many translators generate0D    unreadable code not meant to be meaintained by human beings.  For?    those systems the usual approach is to maintain the original;@    and simply include the translation step as part of compiling.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 07:56:35 -0700]# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>"' Subject: RE: New OpenVMS-to-Itanium FAQ!9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIMENCHJAA.tom@kednos.com>!   >-----Original Message-----) >From: Simon Clubley6 >[mailto:clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP]% >Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 4:36 AM6 >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com( >Subject: Re: New OpenVMS-to-Itanium FAQ >Y >,? >In article <faf7c984.0307210635.34958dd1@posting.google.com>, "+ >stan@stanq.com (Stanley F. Quayle) writes:A >> ;G >> There's another choice, too.  Software Resources International has aD- >> PL/1 to C++ translation service available.] >> 9 >;I >If PL/1 advocates are anything like Ada advocates, then that option will9) >be looked on less than favourably... :-)(  6 The might be inclined, in that event, to bring in IBM.   ><K >[Tom has previously indicated that PL/1 tends to be used by people wishing`J >to write high quality reliable software and wanting to do it in something> >other than C++; the same kind of people that Ada appeals to.] >57 >BTW, is it PL/1 or PL/I ? I thought it was the latter.,   It is PL/I."   >= >Simon.( >= >-- C >Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       -D >VMS advocate: One who makes a Mac advocate look like a beginner at 
 >advocacy. >r >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.c; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).aA >Version: 6.0.502 / Virus Database: 300 - Release Date: 7/18/2003o >. --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.502 / Virus Database: 300 - Release Date: 7/18/2003   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 11:50:26 -0400 # From: sol gongola <sol@adldata.com>e' Subject: Re: New OpenVMS-to-Itanium FAQe* Message-ID: <3F1D5D42.306223C@adldata.com>   It was called it P L one.iE When it came out on the system/360 the rumor was that IBM copyrighted< PL/1 through PL/999.  F There is (was?) a PL/360. A PL/1 like syntax for the os/360 assembler  language (BAL).r   sol.   Tom Linden wrote:o >  > >-----Original Message-----i > >From: Simon Clubley8 > >[mailto:clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP]' > >Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 4:36 AM. > >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com* > >Subject: Re: New OpenVMS-to-Itanium FAQ > >  > >d@ > >In article <faf7c984.0307210635.34958dd1@posting.google.com>,- > >stan@stanq.com (Stanley F. Quayle) writes:e > >>I > >> There's another choice, too.  Software Resources International has an/ > >> PL/1 to C++ translation service available.8 > >> > >.K > >If PL/1 advocates are anything like Ada advocates, then that option willo+ > >be looked on less than favourably... :-)  > 8 > The might be inclined, in that event, to bring in IBM. >  > >gM > >[Tom has previously indicated that PL/1 tends to be used by people wishingsL > >to write high quality reliable software and wanting to do it in something@ > >other than C++; the same kind of people that Ada appeals to.] > >r9 > >BTW, is it PL/1 or PL/I ? I thought it was the latter.U > 
 > It is PL/I.D >  > >q	 > >Simon.W > >e > >--.> > >Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFPE > >VMS advocate: One who makes a Mac advocate look like a beginner ata > >advocacy. > >0 > >---) > >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.e= > >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).oC > >Version: 6.0.502 / Virus Database: 300 - Release Date: 7/18/2003r > >m > ---e( > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.< > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).B > Version: 6.0.502 / Virus Database: 300 - Release Date: 7/18/2003   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Jul 2003 11:51:05 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)l' Subject: Re: New OpenVMS-to-Itanium FAQs3 Message-ID: <TiioV1zpC49I@eisner.encompasserve.org>g  q In article <RIW9av1ku0qo@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:yz > In article <jwHVJZYbgA83@eisner.encompasserve.org>, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) writes:k >> In article <faf7c984.0307210635.34958dd1@posting.google.com>, stan@stanq.com (Stanley F. Quayle) writes:  >>> H >>> There's another choice, too.  Software Resources International has a. >>> PL/1 to C++ translation service available. >>>  >>  K >> If PL/1 advocates are anything like Ada advocates, then that option will-+ >> be looked on less than favourably... :-)u > A >    I don't know about SRI's duct, but many translators generate:F >    unreadable code not meant to be meaintained by human beings.  ForA >    those systems the usual approach is to maintain the originalpB >    and simply include the translation step as part of compiling.  = And consider carefully what sort of debugger support you get.e  H This is the same issue that was apparent with SRI's psuedo-SCAN compilerF for Alpha, and they admitted they expected applications would continueH to be developed on VAX and then ported to the undebuggable Alpha.  Maybe2 it is a sales technique for their VAX emulator :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 08:31:33 -0400h* From: Bill Valentine-Cooper <wvc@nwcs.com>? Subject: Re: Non-OpenVMS ethernet access to Printserver 17/600?o8 Message-ID: <1vaqhvcmkpm5uvhajjde53radbdvshfu0s@4ax.com>  1 On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 18:57:09 -0500, Chris Scheerst" <chris@applied-synergy.com> wrote:   >Bill Valentine-Cooper wrote:t >> pF >> Does anyone know how to print to a Printserver 17/600 over ethernetD >> from an OS other than VMS? I've got it working fine under OpenVMSG >> (using LPS V5.0 under OpenVMS V6.2), but can't figure out how to get I >> to it from a linux box or W32. The Printserver appears to be listeningcI >> on port 170, but as far as I can tell, that's a "no longer well-known"n >> port. >> t >> Thanks in advance >>   >> VCg > H >I'm not sure what you mean by W32, but WinNT can download and talk to a
 >Printserver.a   I meant any 32-bit Windows OS.  E >When you define the printer, give it a port type of "Digital NetworklH >Port". Then you can define the type of printer and the appropriate code# >will be downloaded to the printer.   C Thanks - I didn't know about the Digital Network Port, having stuckrD exclusively with Windows 2000. I did have an old test Windows NT boxD lying around, and now I've got the printer working thru it. But that! leads me to a follow-on question:e  - Microsoft Knowledge Base article 196644 says:a  E "The Digital Network Port monitor is not included on the Windows 2000 C CD-ROM. To use these ports in Windows 2000, you must upgrade from aiA version of Microsoft Windows NT that has the Digital Network Port & monitor installed before you upgrade."  < This is a pain, because I've got an established Windows 2000E community, and I'd have to add another production machine that eitherIC runs Windows NT or was upgraded from Windows NT just to support thei PrintServer 17.o  B Does anyone know how to add the Digital Network Port monitor to an3 existing Windows 2000 machine thru registry magic?     >y >Good luck!o >rH >-----------------------------------------------------------------------% >Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.r >sD >Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com  >  Fax: 817-237-3074   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 15:06:12 GMTo* From: Paul Anderson <paul.anderson@hp.com>? Subject: Re: Non-OpenVMS ethernet access to Printserver 17/600?A5 Message-ID: <220720031109173959%paul.anderson@hp.com>X  = In article <1vaqhvcmkpm5uvhajjde53radbdvshfu0s@4ax.com>, Billd& Valentine-Cooper <wvc@nwcs.com> wrote:  D > Does anyone know how to add the Digital Network Port monitor to an4 > existing Windows 2000 machine thru registry magic?  G If the PrintServer is already booted from somewhere, can't you just useyE LPD from Windows to print?  (Assuming your flavor of Windows has beeng blessed with LPD capabilities.)a   Paul   -- d  Paul Anderson   OpenVMS Engineering    Hewlett-Packard Companyu   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 15:27:10 GMTn# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>e? Subject: Re: Non-OpenVMS ethernet access to Printserver 17/600?eF Message-ID: <iJcTa.4765$vz%.3734@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  7 "Bill Valentine-Cooper" <wvc@nwcs.com> wrote in messaged2 news:1vaqhvcmkpm5uvhajjde53radbdvshfu0s@4ax.com...3 > On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 18:57:09 -0500, Chris Scheers-$ > <chris@applied-synergy.com> wrote: >8 > >Bill Valentine-Cooper wrote:r > >>? > >> Does anyone know how to print to a Printserver 17/600 overa ethernetF > >> from an OS other than VMS? I've got it working fine under OpenVMSE > >> (using LPS V5.0 under OpenVMS V6.2), but can't figure out how to4 getpA > >> to it from a linux box or W32. The Printserver appears to bet	 listeningm? > >> on port 170, but as far as I can tell, that's a "no longert well-known" 
 > >> port. > >> > >> Thanks in advance > >> > >> VCg > >eE > >I'm not sure what you mean by W32, but WinNT can download and talkC to a > >Printserver.  >a  > I meant any 32-bit Windows OS. >P? > >When you define the printer, give it a port type of "Digitalf NetworkeE > >Port". Then you can define the type of printer and the appropriate  code% > >will be downloaded to the printer.o >nE > Thanks - I didn't know about the Digital Network Port, having stuck,F > exclusively with Windows 2000. I did have an old test Windows NT boxF > lying around, and now I've got the printer working thru it. But that# > leads me to a follow-on question:a >s/ > Microsoft Knowledge Base article 196644 says:e >eB > "The Digital Network Port monitor is not included on the Windows 2000E > CD-ROM. To use these ports in Windows 2000, you must upgrade from anC > version of Microsoft Windows NT that has the Digital Network Porte( > monitor installed before you upgrade." > > > This is a pain, because I've got an established Windows 2000@ > community, and I'd have to add another production machine that eitherE > runs Windows NT or was upgraded from Windows NT just to support then > PrintServer 17.N > D > Does anyone know how to add the Digital Network Port monitor to an4 > existing Windows 2000 machine thru registry magic?    E Try www.jsiinc.com and their Tips/Tricks link. Enter "Digital Networke Port" in the search box.  D If you don't find what you need, click 'Contact' and send an e-mail.= Jerry Schulman is extremely knowledgeable about such registryg	 wizardry.m   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 10:38:24 +0200 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>t8 Subject: Re: Obsolete cross compilers: where did you go?' Message-ID: <3F1CF800.F52E6EE6@aaa.com>   - Has anyone actualy *asked* INTEL about this ?t	 Jan-Erik.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 14:01:00 +0100 " From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>8 Subject: Re: Obsolete cross compilers: where did you go?' Message-ID: <3F1D358C.4090003@spam.com>n   Jan-Erik S=F6derholm wrote:N0  > Has anyone actualy *asked* INTEL about this ?	 Jan-Erik.3   I did:  
  > Didier,  >G  > So far, nobody here knows about these products.  I can guarantee youcF  > that they are not being ported to Itanium, but it is not clear thatE  > it's possible to obtain the sources.  I will ask, but don't be took  > hopeful.0  >  > (INTEL Engineering)     D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 07:06:51 +0200e& From: "maurix" <mizioduck@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: OpenVms Backupn- Message-ID: <bfignh$84a$1@e3k.asi.ansaldo.it>y   Hi!e4 I reed all your answers and thank you for your help.  K But I would explain more clearly the procedure I used to back up my system:v    1. Shutdown and boot from CD-Rom# 2. To the menu chose command shell. ) 3. Mount disk and tape (the last foreign)sH ---- on this point i choose for the disk the log_name = to the label --- 4. Launch backup.o  H I this way I don't need IGNO=INTERLOCK 'cause no file can be opened. ButA whitout NOBACKUP the system saves only HEADER of some files (likea PAGEFILE.SYS).  L It seems that in this way no file were skipped by the backup (I controlled - zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz).  F I don't know why the system doesn't find PAGEFILE.SYS after restoring.  D And I'm sure taht this file is not createed by system when I reboot.  , Now I don't understand where is the problem.   Bye.   Maurix  I P.S. If I create this file after the restore, will the system go like the  original???l   TUVM -- md'a :-)a mizioduck@hotmail.comf (uck=a) C "Alan E. Feldman" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> ha scritto nel messaggio 7 news:b096a4ee.0307211102.65dca795@posting.google.com...t5 > josef.rudyk@commerzbank.com (joru) wrote in messages9 news:<2b109804.0307210440.514dbddc@posting.google.com>...e > > Hi Maurix, > >o? > > the reason for this message is, that you used the qualifieriE > > /IGNOR=NOBACKUP. Page- and swapfiles are marked as NOBACKUP as itg4 > > makes no sense to back them up and restore them. > >l$ > > Just create a new pagefile with: > >o > > MCR SYSGEN> > > SYSGEN>CREATE/CONTIGOUS/SIZE=xxxxxx disk:[dir]pagefile.sys > >rF > > replace XXXXXXX with the size in 512Byte blocks that your pagefile4 > > should be and reboot or intsall it by executing: > > 1 > > SYSGEN>INSTAL disk:[dir]pagefile.sys/PAGEFILEs > >t > > Regards Joe  > F > Not so. Without /IGNO=NOBACKUP, BACKUP will back up the file headersD > of the page, swap, and dump files, but will skip copying the data,E > since the data is useless for such files (unless you have an unreadoF > dump in the dump file, in which case you might want to copy the dataD > therein -- probably better to read/save the dump information first > though anyway).r >g@ > During the restore, BACKUP will re-create these files, but theE > original data will not be restored, which is no problem, of course.lC > The files will be the same as before (size, location, attributes)yE > except for the data they contain and they should be contiguous uponaC > restore also. There is no need to manually re-create these files., >0 > Disclaimer: JMHO > Alan E. Feldmanh   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 06:38:50 -0400n  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> Subject: Re: OpenVms Backupe4 Message-ID: <1030722063507.910A-100000@Ives.egh.com>  % On Mon, 21 Jul 2003, Nic Clews wrote:'   > Charlie Hammond wrote: > > 4 > > In article <bfg4s4$3q7$3@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>,9 > > gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann) writes:m > > : > > >     ... . You should have used "/IGNORE=INTERLOCK" . > > L > > As often discussed on this group,  /IGNORE=INTERLOCK should only be usedD > > if you do not care whether or not the resulting backup is valid.O > > Usually, you do are about the validity of an image backup of a system disk.y > = > Sorry Charlie, you're coming in for a bit of stick here...!  > E > Straw poll time, how many have used /ign=inter and ended up with ant > UNBOOTABLE disk? > J > Count me as a never, over say 12 years of doing it reasonably regularly. > G > Christoph was absolutely right, the lack of /IGN=INTER meant the fileBI > was open, so backup did not lay it on the tape, contents or not... FromiJ > the original post, I'm mildly amused that it even booted. I missed it in > my first reply.  > J > I'm a little worried that some think that /IGN=NOBACKUP means it doesn't > back the file up.r >   C Everyone seems to be assuming the OP was *not* using S/A backup (org? backup booted from the distribution CD.  However, the prompt incC the exerpt he posted was "$$$", implying he most likely *was* usingo3 the CD.  (Or maybe he just did "$ set prompt=$$$"?)-  & So then what happened to his pagefile?  E Maybe he's booted from a different root, which is lacking a pagefile?t   -- d John SantosA Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 13:14:57 +0100 * From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]> Subject: Re: OpenVms Backupp' Message-ID: <bfja1p$ag6$1@lore.csc.com>t   "John E. Malmberg" wrote:  >  > David Froble wrote:e > >tJ > > Can you specify a scenario where, when there is no activity that wouldH > > update any files on the system disk, a BACK/IMAGE/IGNORE=INTER wouldJ > > give you a backup with any problems?  Let's go one further and specifyM > > that the storage on the system dusk is limited to VMS and static storage.a > @ > If your SYSUAF is on the disk, and you are running the OpenVMS< > Management Station agent, you risk a corrupted SYSUAF.DAT. > L > There are ways around this of course.  But here is one real world example.  C Why is that? Is there some odd way that the Ovms management station 0 accesses the file that could lead to corruption?  G > I recommend that everyone know how to rebuild their system from knowne3 > good sources, and have archives of critical data.-  8 Yes I do agree with that advice, despite what I've said.   -- @? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencesr nclews at csc dot comD   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Jul 2003 07:39:21 -0500 From: briggs@encompasserve.org Subject: Re: OpenVms Backupg3 Message-ID: <2c0eqrARbd$N@eisner.encompasserve.org>y  e In article <KyWSa.521$5X.420@news.cpqcorp.net>, hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond) writes:tL > In a production environment, a backup strategy that uses /INGORE=INTERLOCKL > is bogus.  Period.  The cost of lost information will usually exceed by a . > LARGE amount the cost of doing backup right. > J In a production environment, a backup strategy that uses /IGNORE=INTERLOCKD can be sound.  Your statement to the contrary is hyperbole.  Period.   	John Briggs   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Jul 2003 09:07:34 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)t Subject: Re: OpenVms Backupc3 Message-ID: <IvXrSU0F1I$c@eisner.encompasserve.org>   f In article <bfg4s4$3q7$3@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>, gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann) writes: > O > You used an inappropriate BACKUP command. All the files that were open duringsL > the time of the backup have not been backed up. Thus, you have no pagefile  H    Tests I've tun on my 6.2 system show that pagefile is not interlocked    against backup.  G    Is it possible that the orginal backup was done from an account thatl)    did not have read access to all files?    ------------------------------    Date: 22 Jul 2003 09:01:43 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: OpenVms Backuph3 Message-ID: <Gtii9JBdauTx@eisner.encompasserve.org>   V In article <bffpej$lcq$1@e3k.asi.ansaldo.it>, "maurix" <mizioduck@hotmail.com> writes: > Hi!s: > I need a help with OpenVms 6.2 on a Digital DEC Station. > D > I've done a system disk backup on tape with the following command: > G > $$$ backup/image/ignore=nobackup/log dka300: mka500:name.bck/init/rew  > N > Then I restored this tape on another DEC and when I reboot appears a message > like:r >  > No PAGEFILE foundm  A    The pagefile doesn't have to be on the system disk.  Check the     original.  8    In the meantime, I'd have used /ignore=interlock, not    /ignore=nobackup.   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Jul 2003 09:03:45 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)$ Subject: Re: OpenVms Backup 3 Message-ID: <IgnOBGfrIN+w@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  w In article <a48f6f51.0307210120.5f1a5d1f@posting.google.com>, stephen_bainbridge@yahoo.co.uk (Steve Bainbridge) writes:r  E > You specified "/ignore=nobackup" when performing the backup and theyC > pagefile.sys file usually has a nobackup attribute set, so it wast > never saved to the tape.  G    Guess again.  /ignore=nobackup means backup will ignore the nobackup E    bit in the file header, it does not ignore the file.  The nobackupcB    bit tells backup to save the file header info, but not the fileG    contents.  /ignore=nobackup tells backup to save both the header ande    the contents.    o   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 14:24:23 GMT 3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond)s Subject: Re: OpenVms Backupg0 Message-ID: <rObTa.595$vM1.350@news.cpqcorp.net>  - In article <3F1CA860.2030903@tsoft-inc.com>,  * David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:  O >Can you specify a scenario where, when there is no activity that would update  Q >any files on the system disk, a BACK/IMAGE/IGNORE=INTER would give you a backup -N >with any problems?  Let's go one further and specify that the storage on the 2 >system dusk is limited to VMS and static storage.  E Let's go another step and assume that it is ANY disk, not necessarilysH a system disk.  (The issues related to /IGNORE=INTERLOCK are not limited- to /IMAGE backups or to system disk backups.)F  E The answer to your question is that if there is no activy to any file6H that is being backed up, then /IGNORE=INTERLOCK will not cause problems.  E However, please note that if you can guarantee no  activy to any filehD that is being backed up, then /IGNORE=INTERLOCK is not necessary and8 using it will obscure and file activity that does occur.  E Yes, if you have a dbms that forces quiescence on one or more of it'siB files, then it is probably safe to use /IGNORE=INTERLOCK to backupF such files -- but why the DBMS doesn't close the file(s) is beyond me.  C Yes, it is possible to come up with an whole host of examples wheredD /IGNORE=INTERLOCK causes no problems.  But is it still dangerous and a poor backup strategy.u  D However, I will acknowledge that in some carefully controlled cases F /IGNORE=INTERLOCK might be preferred when the alternative is no backup* or an unreasonably costly backup strategy.   --  J       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 14:32:39 GMT 3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond)e Subject: Re: OpenVms Backupi0 Message-ID: <bWbTa.597$vM1.303@news.cpqcorp.net>  T In article <2c0eqrARbd$N@eisner.encompasserve.org>, briggs@encompasserve.org writes:f >In article <KyWSa.521$5X.420@news.cpqcorp.net>, hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond) writes:M >> In a production environment, a backup strategy that uses /INGORE=INTERLOCK M >> is bogus.  Period.  The cost of lost information will usually exceed by a l/ >> LARGE amount the cost of doing backup right.a >> aK >In a production environment, a backup strategy that uses /IGNORE=INTERLOCKmE >can be sound.  Your statement to the contrary is hyperbole.  Period.:  ? O.K., let me try to make a statement with which you will agree..  A Using /IGNORE=INTERLOCK with BACKUP has risks which do not exist e? if /IGNORE=INTERLOCK is not used.  A backup strategy which used.E /IGNORE=INTERLOCK must be carefully designed to minimize these risks.A   -- rJ       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 15:01:41 GMT A From: "Colin Butcher" <colin_DOT.butcher_AT@xdelta_DOT.co_DOT.uk>S Subject: Re: OpenVms Backup ; Message-ID: <plcTa.133$gP6.1448007@news-text.cableinet.net>g  J Reading this again (carefully!) you seem to have done enough to get a goodL backup of your system disc. The key is that you did boot from the CD - whichI is the correct thing to be doing (as all the noise above will have helpedt you work out).  L So, we come to the inescapable conclusion that  your system was not a singleL disc system, but had at least the page file off the system disc, maybe otherK files too. In which case you should find out which other discs had files ont that you might need.  4 In the meantime creating a page file is easy enough:  7 MCR SYSGEN CREATE SYS$SYSTEM:PAGEFILE.SYS/SIZE=<blocks>    Then reboot.  ? Also check for SYS$SYSTEM:SWAPFILE.SYS, SYS$SYSTEM:SYSDUMP.DMP,mI SYS$SYSTEM:SYSUAF.DAT,RIGHTSLIST.DAT,NETPROXY.DAT,NET$PROXY.DAT etc. etc.n  G Personally I start with pagefile size = 250000 blocks, swap file size =yC 50000 blocks. I usually try to force then to be contiguous (/CONTIG-I qualifier when creating the file) and generally set the version number toy2 ;32767 so that they cannot be modified by AUTOGEN.  ' Hope this helps get you up and running.-  A -----------------------------------------------------------------, Hope this helps, Colin. ) colin DOT butcher AT xdelta DOT co DOT ukTL Systems Archaeologist - Investigation & troubleshooting of older systems and	 networks.  "s   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 11:48:06 -0400v* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> Subject: Re: OpenVms Backup>) Message-ID: <3F1D5CB3.B72A9987@istop.com>e   Charlie Hammond wrote:B > Using /IGNORE=INTERLOCK with BACKUP has risks which do not existA > if /IGNORE=INTERLOCK is not used.  A backup strategy which usedrG > /IGNORE=INTERLOCK must be carefully designed to minimize these risks.S   I would rephrase this to:i  K /ignore=interlock can safely be used on systems where the system manager isfJ fully aware of the applications and type of activity of the system and canD therefore judge if write activity on the drive would cause problems.  N Question: if you have a shadow set, and you remove one member at some "random"M time. Are you assured that this now-independant member has a 100% safe image,oF or is it possible that some indexed file would have inconsistent indexE information because the drive was dismounted in the middle of a writem" requiring an index split etc etc ?   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Jul 03 18:51:45 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)o Subject: Re: OpenVms Backupo) Message-ID: <jymTI9hn5Coz@elias.decus.ch>f  e In article <KyWSa.521$5X.420@news.cpqcorp.net>, hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond) writes:u, > In article <xfltDbedD9cE@elias.decus.ch>, - > p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) writes:L > ..G >>> Straw poll time, how many have used /ign=inter and ended up with ane >>> UNBOOTABLE disk? > .. >>> L >>> Count me as a never, over say 12 years of doing it reasonably regularly. >>>  >>H >>I'd say never too, and my figure must be closer to 20 years (not quite4 >>remembering whether /ign=inter was there at V3.0). >>E >>Of course I have screwed applications by not closing them properly, - >>but that didn't render the disk unbootable.e >>J >>Having said that, I understand why the official Engineering line exists. > I > With respect, if you think that ensuring a bootable system disk is the nK > only reason for NOT using /INGORE=INTERLOCK, then you may NOT understand.S >t  E With respect, Nick's challenge was that of an UNBOOTABLE disk. I havelA quite clearly stated that application data may be lost. And I for F at least one application I have worked with, I regarded RIGHTSLIST.DATA as an application file (it had gazillions of application specific 	 entries).e   I > The potential loss of data from files that are not correctly backed up k> > is MUCH MORE of an issue that a system disk that won't boot.H > For "all the right reasons" OpenVMS Engineering is extremely sensitive5 > to anything that can cause data loss or corruption.k > L > In a production environment, a backup strategy that uses /INGORE=INTERLOCKL > is bogus.  Period.  The cost of lost information will usually exceed by a . > LARGE amount the cost of doing backup right.  B As others have said later in this thread, 24 x 7 availability is a! direct conflict with this stance.X  E I would rather rebuild a couple of days' worth of data than a week ort4 month's worth. It is a classice cas of a compromise.  A In fact I can think of a previous place I worked where given yourhJ "bogus" statement, the manager would have simply said "Right. No backups",E and then blamed OpenVMS Engineering for the disaster which would havet inevitably followed.   > 8 > I appologize if anyone thinks I've just insulted them. >   < No insult taken here. I see this as a chance to give OpenVMS@ Engineering some feedback on one of the issues we face out here.   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Jul 03 19:17:10 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)w Subject: Re: OpenVms Backup ) Message-ID: <ou3nGxZr6lXT@elias.decus.ch>t  i In article <20030721170956.02838.00000347@mb-m19.news.cs.com>, ka2doug@cs.commoc.sc (DL Phillips) writes:- > Nic Clews wrote: >>E >>Straw poll time, how many have used /ign=inter and ended up with anh >>UNBOOTABLE disk? >> > P > Since the mid-80's or so when the MicroVaxen became price competitive with theL > PDP's --- meaning that smaller companies could afford them --- most of ourP > customers do not run 24*7 shops.  We  let backup run during their off-time andK > usually do an image of the system disk along with the data disk(s) and weo > always use /igonor=interlock.  > P > Over the years I've restored many a system disk from one of those backups (tooM > many back in the RD53/RD54 day's) and every one has booted. (Well, I've hadt0 > some bad TK50 tapes, but that's another issue) > Q > Reading what a backup log says during the /verify pass will show how gracefullyb( > the system disk's /image will restore. >   F Correct there. Another way to grab those files, assuming that the main= backup was done with /record, is to do a backup/since=backup.   J This takes advantage of the fact that the backup date and time recorded inF files represents the date and time the backup _started_. I.e. anythingJ modified since the backup started is a candidate for an inconsistent file.  N > Except for the queue stuff, sysuaf login times and the log files, all of theQ > important VMS bits on even a quite active system disk will restore and boot, or  > such has been my fortune.U > G >>Christoph was absolutely right, the lack of /IGN=INTER meant the file I >>was open, so backup did not lay it on the tape, contents or not... FromaJ >>the original post, I'm mildly amused that it even booted. I missed it in >>my first reply.o >> > K > I seldom get interlock errors when my prompt looks like what the originaln > poster typed, ie $$$ >  > :-)    -Doug >   D Unfortunately snipped in the first response. This was the reason forI my initial guess that the original system had its pagefile on a different- disk.-  D Another aspect to consider here is that my workstation in the officeB _always_ comes up with a "pagefile not found" message, early on inB the startup sequence. I have it configured as a cluster satellite,C and the pagefile sits on its internal disk, so I assume the message>? is the result of the startup not finding a pagefile in its roote
 directory.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 17:31:53 GMTv3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond)l Subject: Re: OpenVms Backupo0 Message-ID: <dyeTa.623$l12.104@news.cpqcorp.net>  V In article <3F1D5CB3.B72A9987@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes:   >I would rephrase this to: >nL >/ignore=interlock can safely be used on systems where the system manager isK >fully aware of the applications and type of activity of the system and can E >therefore judge if write activity on the drive would cause problems.t  J I would agree, but point out that it is virtually impossible to be certainE when you "judge if write activity on the drive would cause problems."1B So the rephrasing (actually a restatement) is pretty much useless.    O >Question: if you have a shadow set, and you remove one member at some "random"mN >time. Are you assured that this now-independant member has a 100% safe image,G >or is it possible that some indexed file would have inconsistent index<F >information because the drive was dismounted in the middle of a write# >requiring an index split etc etc ?s  1 CAUTION: This is not my area of expertise, but...aI To the best of my knowledge, all that is guaranteed is that all QIOs that/L are started are completed.  i.e. neither file integrity nor data consistencyI is guaranteed.  To get these, it is necessary to force a stop to all I/O a activity.  (A "quiet" point.)r   --  J       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Jul 2003 06:46:32 -07006 From: andrew.rycroft@intrinsitech.com (Andrew Rycroft)! Subject: OpenVMS Cluster overhead.= Message-ID: <58ba0101.0307220546.4c818de6@posting.google.com>C   Hi,   F We have a Oracle/Rdb application which we are thinking of putting intoE a two node cluster with gigabit interconnect to enhance availability.nA But the question we need to address is whether by clustering thisdA application the overall performance will be negatively impacted ?s   Any feedback appreciated.c   Thanks Andrew   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 10:51:35 -0600l4 From: Norman Lastovica <norman.lastovica@oracle.com>% Subject: Re: OpenVMS Cluster overhead * Message-ID: <3F1D6B97.2C57D3FD@oracle.com>  H it likely depends very much on how much distributed locking activity youD experience.  also make sure to use the current version(s) of OpenVMSJ (v7.3-1) and Rdb (v7.1.1.0.1 ideally) if performance is a concern for you.   Andrew Rycroft wrote:d   > Hi,e >aH > We have a Oracle/Rdb application which we are thinking of putting intoG > a two node cluster with gigabit interconnect to enhance availability.@C > But the question we need to address is whether by clustering thismC > application the overall performance will be negatively impacted ?I >m > Any feedback appreciated.r >c > Thanks > Andrew   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 05:26:31 -0400a* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>+ Subject: Re: Opteron motherboard maker soldc2 Message-ID: <Cq6dnRPo4qnJnoCiU-KYvA@metrocast.net>  D "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> wrote in message( news:l_USa.506$VM.85@news.cpqcorp.net... >27 > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messagea. > news:FPednQ3LhOkTPoSiXTWJjQ@metrocast.net... > >s > > > C > > > Terms of the agreement were not disclosed.  That $100 million 3 > > > sounds good, but it may have been a lot less.y > >eL > > Exactly what part of the phrase 'the better part of $100 million' do youK > > find difficult to understand?  The point was that if the investors were-J > > happy, they presumably got considerably more than the $55 million they puteG > > in.  For VCs, that likely means *at least* something close to a 50%T return$ > > (over the three years involved). > >M >o > Spin. Spin. Spin. Spin.  > Spin. Spin. Spin. Spin.1  H Y'know, Fred, if I were dependent upon VMS I'd be kind of worried that aJ moron (or cretin - still haven't really figured out which) like you seemedE to have significant responsibilities for whatever future it may have.    > J > The only thing consistent is that you draw conclusions without facts, on > pretty much any subject.  K I do believe I hear the sounds of a glass house shattering.  Who was it who K failed to produce a single supporting reference for his assertions not longlF ago after I took the trouble to provide a rather lengthy (though still* incomplete) list of those supporting mine?  2   Yup.  Sure, I "guess" $55 million is the "betterL > part" of $100 million, just like the "recession ended in November 2001" is a G > true statement (as long as you can be detached from reality like mostsI > economists).  For all we know, what might have made investors happy waseI > getting out with the shirts on their backs.  We don't have *any* of the J > facts to draw *any* conclusion.  We have a press release, and a Inquirer > rumor rag article.  G Considering the distinct paucity of truth in cHumPaq press releases andsI other public statements, I guess I can understand why you place so littleoB credence in such statements.  But not *all* companies lie with theK unfettered abandon demonstrated by your employer, Fred - and in the absence0L of such obvious patterns of mendacity it's hardly unreasonable to give their  statements at least some weight.  I VCs *normally* wouldn't be at all happy with a 16% annual rate of return,eK but I made adjustments for the current rather stagnant economic climate andnL gave a conservative estimate.  Unless you've got support for a more credibleL estimate, it sounds as if you're just blowing smoke out your ass yet again -1 and sounding more and more like Andrew every day.y   - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Jul 2003 05:55:36 -07001 From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski)eO Subject: PL/I to C and C++ translation services, process overview now availables= Message-ID: <857e9e41.0307220455.2605256e@posting.google.com>.   ----Original Message-----  From: Skonetski, Susan y$ Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 8:36 AM To: Skonetski, SusanE Subject: PL/I to C and C++ translation services, process overview nowc( available - ok for external distribution         -----Original Message-----5 From: Dogan Baser [mailto:dogan.baser@softresint.com]t$ Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 7:19 AM1 To: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com; Skonetski, Susane* Subject: FW: PL/I to C and C++ translation     Susan,  L FYI: We just posted a translation process overview from PL/1 to C and C++ on
 our web site.p/ http://www.softresint.com/pub/SPD/01-02-021.pdf   
 Best regards,- Dogan-  Software Resources International   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 07:49:11 -0700u# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>sS Subject: RE: PL/I to C and C++ translation services, process overview now available 9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIAENCHJAA.tom@kednos.com>a  C I doubt that any knowledgeable person would seriously consider thisDH approach, and I am not saying that because we provide the PL/I compiler.H A number of companies have tried to build such translators over the pastK 20 or so years and have failed and it is not because they lacked the skills K to accomplish the task.  You may get 90% of it right but they remaining 10% D will cost you dearly.  I have written a PL/I compiler which produces abstractK C code as an intermediate form, so I understand what is involved.  (This isi not the compiler on VMS)  G The resultant code will not be of a nature suitable to be maintained bytK programmers, so how do you modify the code?  Do you go back to the originalfL and retranslate it?  If you want to move from PL/I to C or C++ then the best' approach is to reengineer from scratch.t  F It is not difficult to construct a small PL/I program that will defeat any such translator.  H Finally, it should be added that you would be migrating from powerful toA a weak language, which will in the end drive up maintenance costsa
 considerably.4B Typically, C requires 2 to 3 times as many lines of source code to
 accomplishJ the same task as an equivalent PL/I program, and therefore the probability ofK program failure is correspondingly increased.  Rewriting from PL/I to C is,e however, a regressive step.s  L As an example, I recently posted a small program to convert floating formats  5 F2S: proc(in) returns(bit(32));  /* PL/I procedure */n  dcl (in,out) bit(32);5  substr(out,32,1) = substr(in,1,1);   /* move sign */ I  substr(out,31,8) = reverse(substr(in,2,8)); /* move and swap exponent */iK  substr(out,23,23) = reverse(substr(in,9,23)); /* move and swap mantissa */-
  return(out);-	  end F2S;-  K Another poster has similarly referenced a C program to do the same, it went  onK for several pages.  The above code could be run on either OpenVMS or AIX as  the3 original poster had requested.   >-----Original Message-----09 >From: Sue Skonetski [mailto:susan_skonetski@hotmail.com]>% >Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 5:56 AMe >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComF >Subject: PL/I to C and C++ translation services, process overview now
 >available >j >3 >----Original Message----- >From: Skonetski, Susanw% >Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 8:36 AMw >To: Skonetski, SusanwF >Subject: PL/I to C and C++ translation services, process overview now) >available - ok for external distributiond >o >o >h >, >-----Original Message-----m6 >From: Dogan Baser [mailto:dogan.baser@softresint.com]% >Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 7:19 AMa2 >To: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com; Skonetski, Susan+ >Subject: FW: PL/I to C and C++ translation- >- >- >Susan,- > B >FYI: We just posted a translation process overview from PL/1 to C >and C++ onj >our web site.0 >http://www.softresint.com/pub/SPD/01-02-021.pdf >- >Best regards, >Dogan! >Software Resources Internationalo >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.i; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com)..A >Version: 6.0.502 / Virus Database: 300 - Release Date: 7/18/2003p >d ---r& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.502 / Virus Database: 300 - Release Date: 7/18/2003   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 15:52:52 +0000 (UTC))- From: lewis@spyder.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)tS Subject: RE: PL/I to C and C++ translation services, process overview now available0, Message-ID: <bfjmkk$5$1@newslocal.mitre.org>   "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes in article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIAENCHJAA.tom@kednos.com> dated Tue, 22 Jul 2003 07:49:11 -0700:H >The resultant code will not be of a nature suitable to be maintained byL >programmers, so how do you modify the code?  Do you go back to the originalM >and retranslate it?  If you want to move from PL/I to C or C++ then the best ( >approach is to reengineer from scratch.  F That's a problem with any translator, especially one which goes from aG higher-level language to a lower-level one.  We played with an in-housebG PL/I->C++ translator, and from what I heard, it produced unmaintainablet code.d  K On the other hand, we did develop a PL/I->C data structure translator whichaG has been very useful in our mixed-code environment.  Even set up MMS tooJ convert certain .DCL files into .H on a regular basis.  The result is thatH our application can share large data structures between PL/I and C code.H Of course, the advanced stuff like REFER() doesn't translate, so we keep) that out of modules we intend to share.  m  K If anybody wants a copy of the data structure translator, drop me a line atoK my slightly munged e-mail address below.  The one in the header won't work.N  + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.org > The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 08:53:14 -0700"# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> S Subject: RE: PL/I to C and C++ translation services, process overview now availablec9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIMENFHJAA.tom@kednos.com>a   >-----Original Message------5 >From: Keith A. Lewis [mailto:lewis@spyder.mitre.org]m% >Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 8:53 AM  >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComF >Subject: RE: PL/I to C and C++ translation services, process overview >now available >a >n0 >"Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes in article@ ><CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIAENCHJAA.tom@kednos.com> dated Tue, 22 Jul >2003 07:49:11 -0700:iI >>The resultant code will not be of a nature suitable to be maintained byy@ >>programmers, so how do you modify the code?  Do you go back to
 >the original @ >>and retranslate it?  If you want to move from PL/I to C or C++ >then the best) >>approach is to reengineer from scratch.t >eG >That's a problem with any translator, especially one which goes from aaH >higher-level language to a lower-level one.  We played with an in-houseH >PL/I->C++ translator, and from what I heard, it produced unmaintainable >code. >-L >On the other hand, we did develop a PL/I->C data structure translator whichH >has been very useful in our mixed-code environment.  Even set up MMS toK >convert certain .DCL files into .H on a regular basis.  The result is that I >our application can share large data structures between PL/I and C code. I >Of course, the advanced stuff like REFER() doesn't translate, so we keepc( >that out of modules we intend to share.  * In some sense, I guess you reinvented SDL.   > L >If anybody wants a copy of the data structure translator, drop me a line atL >my slightly munged e-mail address below.  The one in the header won't work.  J Please send, and if you don't mind I will stick a copy in my tools dir for ftpa access.    >o, >--Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.org? >The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.d >G >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).oA >Version: 6.0.502 / Virus Database: 300 - Release Date: 7/18/2003  >a ---i& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.502 / Virus Database: 300 - Release Date: 7/18/2003   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Jul 2003 11:56:23 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)oS Subject: RE: PL/I to C and C++ translation services, process overview now availablee3 Message-ID: <iv4epn+2lsZw@eisner.encompasserve.org>g  _ In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIAENCHJAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:   I > The resultant code will not be of a nature suitable to be maintained bycM > programmers, so how do you modify the code?  Do you go back to the originalIN > and retranslate it?  If you want to move from PL/I to C or C++ then the best) > approach is to reengineer from scratch.b  D That way you will at least get something written in the style of the target language.  H > It is not difficult to construct a small PL/I program that will defeat > any such translator.  E Consider that it was a small part of the VAX TECO source code writtend: in Macro-32 that defeated the Alpha compiler for Macro-32.  J > Finally, it should be added that you would be migrating from powerful toC > a weak language, which will in the end drive up maintenance costsa > considerably.uD > Typically, C requires 2 to 3 times as many lines of source code to > accomplishL > the same task as an equivalent PL/I program, and therefore the probability > ofM > program failure is correspondingly increased.  Rewriting from PL/I to C is,  > however, a regressive step.   9 It depends on whether you get paid on a per-bug basis :-)y   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 01:54:17 -0400-* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> Subject: Re: PPPOE? When? How?) Message-ID: <3F1CD160.C8101112@istop.com>e   Rich Jordan wrote:F > First sympathies... PPPoE REEKS.  It is the vendors way of providingI > cheap 'consumer grade' service that they can exercise a great deal more7/ > control over than a basic TCP/IP connection. .  M What I read is that the pesky PPPoE thing was designed to allow the telcos to"K use their existing dial-up authentication software to authenticate users onTM DSL lines, thus saving the telcos money and enabling quicker startup of their $ services to catch up with the cable.  H The higher end offerings by some DSL providors removes the need for thatH stupid PPPoE thing. (but the telcos charge more for that type of access.  I > You can get the various network boxes that provide a PPPoE client mode.   G Yep, and for VMS it is the only way to go. And I'd much rather have PPP.K support on all VMS platforms than have the VMS engineers develop some PPPoEB. software that would be totally useless on VMS.  I If you operate a lan, you are far better off with a router doing the realeM TCPIP to PPPOE thing translation. This way, all machines on your lan benefit, 9 and you isolate the stupid PPPoE layer from your own lan.f  I As far as the router, just choose one that has telnet or even serial portuK access. This enables you to configure and maintain the router from your VMS M box. And usually the serial interfaces provide greater functionality than them web pages for a router.r    F > PCs with the SBC software.  Netgear, LinkSys, and Sonicwall have allI > failed; in this case it is due to the provision of a static IP address.   N I have a Netgear RT 314 router, and it works with my DSL provider with a fixedI IP address.  In the character cell interface, the setup allows to set the@ address to "fixed".:    J > Finally, PPPoE takes overhead in every packet.  You will need to set theB > various MTUs to a lower value then 1500 (I've seen 1464 and 1404 > recommended),   # I have heard many stories on that.    L 1-Some routers will automatically adjust their WAN side MTUs and perform the fragmentation on your behalf.?  K 2-Some DSL services use ATM services to route the packets from the DSLAM atlF the telco to their own premises, and having a multiple of 53 bytes (orF whatever the ATM packet size is) is supposed to help (but I have heard( opinions that it doesn't really matter).   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Jul 2003 16:02:24 GMT+ From: Mike Zanker <not-for-mail@zanker.org>s4 Subject: Re: Printing to remote PCL5e/PCL6 lpd queue7 Message-ID: <Xns93C0AD56FAF08mikezankerorg@130.133.1.4>t  6 gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann) wrote in) news:bfg3s8$3q7$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de: a  > > You need something like the PrintKit from Northlake SoftwareC > (http://www.nls.com/). If you don't need special features you may 4 > use forms and setup libraries from within OpenVMS.  D Thanks, quite pricey for a hobbyist user. I've managed to get it to / print text which is good enough for the moment.e   Regards,   Mike.    ------------------------------    Date: 22 Jul 2003 08:31:32 -07000 From: Steven Santinelli <santinelli@smscomp.com>4 Subject: Re: PW V5.0F ECO 2 and VMS V7.3-1 resources) Message-ID: <bfjlck01qel@drn.newsguy.com>o  N Rodman - Just curious, have you re-installed Pathworks, in case any files were' written over by your upgrade to v7.3-1?a   Just an idea...  (Hey Brad!)     SteveK    G In article <7pouevk95ml4on1c4qob0prrd0cgkaqf8l@4ax.com>, Rodman says...h >r> >I had Pathworks V5.0F ECO 2 w/XP patch working on V/A V7.1-2. >4E >I had to upgrade the VMS node to V/A V7.3-1 to support new hardware.u >cE >After the upgrade, I cannot get the Pathworks server to successfullyoA >start.  It complains about insufficient resources to support anym	 >clients.d >C? >Repeated iterations of ADMIN/CONFIG, reboot for AUTOGEN changeP% >fail to resolve the resources issue.d >n: >I suspect either the resource calculator for ADMIN/CONFIGB >is broken under V7.3-1, or the resource verifier in the Pathworks >startup is broken.r >k/ >I have logged a call with TSC, but since PW V5t> >is not officially supported with V7.3-1 they can only provide >limited help. >l4 >I am not in a position to change to PW V6 or PW V7. >l! >Anyone have a fix or workaround?@ >n >n >a   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Jul 2003 07:54:33 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)e Subject: Re: Sun and SCO3 Message-ID: <uqpPmMr5zJvw@eisner.encompasserve.org>    In article <bfgvpg$lik$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: > @ > You didn't consider that the deal could simply be a technology? > licensing deal that has nothing to do with SCO's ongoing casew > against IBM ???s      Nope.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 08:03:17 -0400 ! From: "JustMe" <no.body@no.where>i3 Subject: Re: TCP-related Print-queue head-scratchern9 Message-ID: <II9Ta.8700$FV6.439049@news20.bellglobal.com>-  K There are a couple of logicals that you might want to investigate, that mayp
 help here:     TCPIP$LPD_PROBETIMER     TCPIP$LPD_DROPTIME*     (and possibly.... TCPIP$LPD_KEEPALIVE)K I'm no UCX-guy (TCPware is SO much easier to administer), but the documents_J from the OpenVMS site suggest that these might be where your problem lies,6 especially if the printers go into a "Powersave" mode.  . Try http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/tcpip51.html    2 "Bill Clark" <bclark_at_lrgh.org> wrote in message, news:8KednYQ10rkOYIaiXTWJhw@metrocast.net...	 greetingsuK           i'm fishing.  OpenVMS 7.2-2, AlphaServer 4100, TCPIP_ECO v5.1-154  .t  H           i have a number of print-queues in the Emergency Room, Walk-in Care officesK           and registration offices, standard dot-matrix printers, Lantronix- LPS Print servers;L           on an increasingly frequent basis, several wall-clock minutes will elapse before print 8           jobs sent to these queues will actually print.J           the queues do not report a 'Stalled' state, there do not seem to be any CPU / I-OH           'hogs' consuming all the system resources, and i can detect no network-relatedoH           congestion or conflicts. our network administator says 'all is well' as far as he is            concerned.  H           are there TCP Network Configuration settings that can be set ~ checked ~ tinkeredI          with in an effort to identify (or better yet - cure) whatever ise causing this problem?s  J           the printers are not 'SHARED' with other devices, that is to say they are not beingG           used as someone's personal or 'PC' printer. the Lantronix LPSo units have been swapped '           out and around, with no luck.t  J         any information, up to and including wild guesses, will be happily entertained. TIA.i   b clark at lrgh dot orgN   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Jul 2003 10:15:17 +0200C From: vaxinf@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de (Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann)n) Subject: Re: Update VMS731_CDRECORD-V0100i- Message-ID: <3f1cf295$1@news.uni-konstanz.de>k  9 In article <00A23304.E7148B09@SendSpamHere.ORG>, VAXman- i @SendSpamHere.ORG, writes:sE |>In article <3F1BA62F.18434.195C3A0A@localhost>, "Stanley F. Quayle"C |><stan@stanq.com> writes:G |>>The command procedure provided with this kit expects CD drives only nH |>>on the first SCSI bus.  Specifying "DKB0", for example, always fails. |>>eH |>>If you specify "dev=1,0,0" directly to the CDRECORD executable, that  |>>succeeds. |>C |>When I first worked on CDRECORD to fix a SCSI but for Eberhard, IF	 |>thought H |>|>that unixy mechanism was pretty crappy.  I changed it in the version |>thatG |>I use here so that I can specify with the device's VMS specification.- |> |>--8 |>VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     |>VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM
 |>           d7 |>  "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" v |> |>  < This is a nice feature, please send the modifications to me.  > All the changes HP made are my proposal (wrong status for IDE; -driveropts=burnproof).h  J I think the sources in cdrecord_sources.bck should be changed accordingly, too.* This is a must to fullfil the GNU license.   eberhard   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Jul 2003 07:47:30 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)I> Subject: Re: What color were the VMS manuals for old versions?3 Message-ID: <cKrbILY3wbEY@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  b In article <3F17F274.8E379542@vcu.edu>, Jim Agnew - VCU/MCV Neurosurgery <jpagnew@vcu.edu> writes: > H > i only have to say that NOTHING ever beat the RSX RMD   I think it wasE > realtime monitor display.  it showed things paging in and out, file 2 > accessed, disks thrashing, really, really cool..  H    It was usefull when looking at RSX specific info.  I wouldn't want it    anywhere else.   D    sys$system:display.exe had the same problem I've found in top andC    similar UNIX utilities:  live displa only, no ability to record.-  G    MONITOR fixed that for VMS, I don't recall if we had anything on RSX     that would record.D   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Jul 2003 07:48:13 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) > Subject: Re: What color were the VMS manuals for old versions?3 Message-ID: <TUKl0R07WfmO@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  d In article <bdc65a53.0307180840.42b3cbcc@posting.google.com>, gspamtackett@yahoo.com (Galen) writes: > G > Back in those days it seemed like most of my calls involved RSX crashrD > dumps. (It was nice to be able to easily find one's way around theC > insides of an O/S, when they only took up a few dozen KB of RAM.)   ;    How about when they only took up 1/4 inch of microfiche?    ------------------------------    Date: 22 Jul 2003 07:49:42 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) > Subject: Re: What color were the VMS manuals for old versions?3 Message-ID: <nRnuEnRSRrYH@eisner.encompasserve.org>,  U In article <qmdCFuUZKKkP@elias.decus.ch>, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) writes:i  L > While at first glance I thought of it as a loss of functionality, a littleJ > thought revealed that it neatly closed the potential security problem ofP > someone using SAB as a means of getting into the system in a small time window2 > and being able to perform file level operations.  D   A problem that came back when Alpha didn't get true SAB.  Physical:   security is already required, though, for other reasons.   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Jul 2003 09:01:49 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) / Subject: Re: XFC, IO Size and Backup - Take Two.3 Message-ID: <uHFrJg6WU67Y@eisner.encompasserve.org>s  a In article <tK1NSCJOuvIE@eisner.encompasserve.org>, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:Uc > In article <4JrWZ6GY$Y46@eisner.encompasserve.org>, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:  >> R > = > 	The fun never ends.  For folks following this saga - it is A > 	a journey.  I apologize for not being more thorough initially.o >   C 	Blah blah blah.  Yep - again.  Not being thorough, blah blah blah.   >         [See prior messages in this thread for proper context]   The following is from:   XFC> show context/brief   7 I ripped out three fields to help it fit in 80 columns.m5 I ripped I/O Stall reason (they aren't stalled),  I/Od8 phase (they are complete), Volume ID - all from the same3 Volume as you can tell by the File ID not changing.o  % List of All XFC Active Contexts (CTX)i% -------------------------------------iE Address          I/O Type        File ID  Start VBN    Length     IRP0F FFFFFFFF8378A1D0 eiotReadThrough      48    2231809       512 81CC6A00F FFFFFFFF833C00D0 eiotReadAhead        48    2233345       120 837F01C0F FFFFFFFF8390B510 eiotReadThrough      48    2232321       512 81973D40F FFFFFFFF8397DE50 eiotReadAhead        48    2233465       120 837F01C0F FFFFFFFF836DDFD0 eiotReadThrough      48    2232833       512 81CC6A00F FFFFFFFF836DB290 eiotReadAhead        48    2233585       120 837F01C0F FFFFFFFF836D7C90 eiotReadAhead        48    2233705       120 837F01C0F FFFFFFFF832CC190 eiotReadThrough      48    2233345       512 81CC6A00F FFFFFFFF83848990 eiotReadThrough      48    2233857       512 81973D40F FFFFFFFF837CC510 eiotReadAhead        48    2235393       120 837F01C0F FFFFFFFF837DAF10 eiotReadThrough      48    2234369       512 81973D40F FFFFFFFF837D7CD0 eiotReadAhead        48    2235513       120 837F01C0F FFFFFFFF835F15D0 eiotReadThrough      48    2234881       512 81CC6A00F FFFFFFFF8389E3D0 eiotReadAhead        48    2235633       120 837F01C0F FFFFFFFF832D9FD0 eiotReadAhead        48    2235753       120 837F01C0F FFFFFFFF837892D0 eiotReadThrough      48    2235393       512 81CC6A00F FFFFFFFF839ADBD0 eiotReadThrough      48    2235905       512 81973D40  ? What do we know about the above?  VCC_MAX_IO_SIZE >= 512 blocksaA or those would be read arounds.  File opened or closed?  Closed -f; as we are seeing ReadAheads.  The file being backed up is ao> largish file broken out from a shadowset.  It should be faster> using ReadAheads, right?  Well no.  The interspersed 120 block< reads with 512 is causing a bit of prefetch thrashing on theD controller backends slowing down the backup - slightly.  That and itA appears even with the 120 block readaheads, their is still a goodeJ deal of 512 block IO out to contollers (could be wrong, I am speculating).    % List of All XFC Active Contexts (CTX)t% -------------------------------------eE Address          I/O Type       File ID  Start VBN    Length      IRPkE FFFFFFFF837CC510 eiotReadAround    3037    2515457       512 81CBD740 E FFFFFFFF8398BED0 eiotReadAround    3037    2556929       512 82357540mE FFFFFFFF836F8850 eiotReadAround    3037    2557441       512 81CBD740bE FFFFFFFF839AE290 eiotReadAround    3037    2557953       512 81CBD740yE FFFFFFFF83848990 eiotReadAround    3037    2558465       512 82357540eE FFFFFFFF8370E990 eiotReadAround    3037    2558977       512 81CBD740 E FFFFFFFF83519250 eiotReadAround    3037    2559489       512 82357540-E FFFFFFFF83789990 eiotReadAround    3037    2560001       512 81CBD740tE FFFFFFFF836DB950 eiotReadAround    3037    2560513       512 82357540-E FFFFFFFF8352F390 eiotReadAround    3037    2561025       512 81CBD7400E FFFFFFFF836F51D0 eiotReadAround    3037    2561537       512 81CBD740-E FFFFFFFF8389CF90 eiotReadAround    3037    2562049       512 81CBD740tE FFFFFFFF837CCBD0 eiotReadAround    3037    2562561       512 81CBD7400E FFFFFFFF8378A1D0 eiotReadAround    3037    2563073       512 82357540 E FFFFFFFF835F15D0 eiotReadAround    3037    2563585       512 81CBD740 E FFFFFFFF836D9B10 eiotReadAround    3037    2564097       512 82357540iE FFFFFFFF8397DE50 eiotReadAround    3037    2564609       512 81CBD740sE FFFFFFFF832D9FD0 eiotReadAround    3037    2565121       512 81CBD740v  @ What do we know about the file above?  VCC_MAX_IO_SIZE less thanF 512.  Or could be file opened for write.  But it isn't opened.  Broken; out shadowset member.  Because those 512 IOs are coming onedC after another, the controller is prefetching to cache (I could boree= us all with screen fulls of stuff - let's just say I'm seeing . 3-5 ms reads).  So after all this, the backups: are slightly faster with VCC_MAX_IO_SIZE set to default ofG 127.  ReadAheads on these larger IOs are actually slower as noted abovetF (again - the controller is no doubt seeing 512 block IO, 120 block IOs interspersed).  A Now I would bet that if you had HSJ kit, you would be faster withsM the readaheads.  But a more modern controller that does prefetching, slightlyl" faster with readaheads turned off.  8 But , this is a known issue (I would say) as we see this	 in 7.3-2:h  6 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/os/v732features.html   XFC Performance Enhancements  ,         o  Performance boost for small I/Os $         o  Context block allocation .         o  Misaligned fields in context block &         o  Support for readahead hint (         o  Reclaim unused, closed files ,         o  Usability/debugging improvements A         o  Display files by volume instead of random order (SDA) l)         o  Miscellaneous XFC SDA changes h  I Maybe that "support for readahead hint" means it will work well in 7.3-2? 7 One would think whatever the fix is that the readaheadstD would outrun the next IO request, regardless of size.  Within reason
 of course.  #                                 Robe   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Jul 2003 11:53:12 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)>/ Subject: Re: XFC, IO Size and Backup - Take Twof3 Message-ID: <adMANVMnKPtX@eisner.encompasserve.org>-  a In article <uHFrJg6WU67Y@eisner.encompasserve.org>, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:lc > In article <tK1NSCJOuvIE@eisner.encompasserve.org>, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:Cd >> In article <4JrWZ6GY$Y46@eisner.encompasserve.org>, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes: >>>  >> i> >> 	The fun never ends.  For folks following this saga - it isB >> 	a journey.  I apologize for not being more thorough initially. >> n > E > 	Blah blah blah.  Yep - again.  Not being thorough, blah blah blah.s > @ >         [See prior messages in this thread for proper context] >  > The following is from: >    	[snip a bunch]d   > C > Now I would bet that if you had HSJ kit, you would be faster with O > the readaheads.  But a more modern controller that does prefetching, slightly $ > faster with readaheads turned off. > : > But , this is a known issue (I would say) as we see this > in 7.3-2:  > 8 > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/os/v732features.html >  > XFC Performance Enhancements > . >         o  Performance boost for small I/Os & >         o  Context block allocation 0 >         o  Misaligned fields in context block ( >         o  Support for readahead hint * >         o  Reclaim unused, closed files . >         o  Usability/debugging improvements C >         o  Display files by volume instead of random order (SDA)  + >         o  Miscellaneous XFC SDA changes   > K > Maybe that "support for readahead hint" means it will work well in 7.3-2?A9 > One would think whatever the fix is that the readaheadshF > would outrun the next IO request, regardless of size.  Within reason > of course. >   = 	I realized I am probably wrong about the above.  That sounds7B 	like an API hook - "Support for readahead hint".  So the question@ 	then is, is it an issue with larger IO sizes?  Does a ReadAhead= 	*always* consist of a 120 block IO?  If so, then it appears a< 	that the 512 block IO I am describing is "over running" the? 	readahead (resulting in prefetch caching at the controller notsC 	being effective) - hence the slower IO performance compared to noth8 	having it turned out via VCC_MAX_IO_SIZE >= 512 blocks.   				Roba   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.402 ************************ 10:51:35 -0600l4 From: Norman Lastovica <norman.lastovica@oracle.com>% Subject: Re: OpenVMS Cluster overhead * Message-ID: <3F1D6B97.2C57D3FD@oracle.com>  H it likely depends very much on how  <<< PORT 147,162,156,46,200,346 >>> 200 Port 200.34 at Host 147.162.156.46 accepted.  <<< PORT 147,162,156,46,200,346 >>> 200 Port 200.34 at Host 147.162.156.46 accepted.  <<< PORT 147,162,156,46,200,346 >>> 200 Port 200.34 at Host 147.162.156.46 accepted.  <<< PORT 147,162,156,46,200,346 >>> 200 Port 200.34 at Host 147.162.156.46 accepted.  <<< PORT 147,162,156,46,200,346 >>> 200 Port 200.34 at Host 147.162.156.46 accepted.  <<< PORT 147,162,156,46,200,346 >>> 200 Port 200.34 at Host 147.162.156.46 accepted.  <<< PORT 147,162,156,46,200,346 >>> 200 Port 200.34 at Host 147.162.156.46 accepted.  <<< PORT 147,162,156,46,200,346 >>> 200 Port 200.34 at Host 147.162.156.46 accepted.  <<< PORT 147,162,156,46,200,346 >>> 200 Port 200.34 at Host 147.162.156.46 accepted.  <<< PORT 147,162,156,46,200,346 >>> 200 Port 200.34 at Host 147.162.156.46 accepted.  <<< PORT 147,162,156,46,200,346 >>> 200 Port 200.34 at Host 147.162.156.46 accepted.  <<< PORT 147,162,156,46,200,346 >>> 200 Port 200.34 at Host 147.162.156.46 accepted.  <<< PORT 147,162,156,46,200,346 >>> 200 Port 200.34 at Host 147.162.156.46 accepted.  <<< PORT 147,162,156,46,200,346 >>> 200 Port 200.34 at Host 147.162.156.46 accepted.  <<< PORT 147,162,156,46,200,346 >>> 200 Port 200.34 at Host 147.162.156.46 accepted.  <<< PORT 147,162,156,46,200,346 >>> 200 Port 200.34 at Host 147.162.156.46 accepted.  <<< PORT 147,162,156,46,200,346 >>> 200 Port 200.34 at Host 147.162.156.46 accepted.  <<