1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 24 Jul 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 406       Contents:! Re: Advanced Server 7.3a Required  Re: Alpha station boot problems ' Re: Creating an EVE or TPU Section File N Re: D.H. Brown: EV7 AlphaServers Deliver Enhanced RAS and Powerful PerformanceP Re: D.H. Brown: EV7 AlphaServers Deliver Enhanced RAS and Powerful Performance PP Re: D.H. Brown: EV7 AlphaServers Deliver Enhanced RAS and Powerful Performance PF Re: Debugging VAX Scan programs on Alpha (was: New OpenVMS-to-Itanium)F Re: Debugging VAX Scan programs on Alpha (was: New OpenVMS-to-Itanium)P Re: DEC-AXPVMS-VMS731_CDRECORD-V0100--4.PCSI v.  DEC-AXPVMS-VMS731_PCSI-V0100--4P Re: DEC-AXPVMS-VMS731_CDRECORD-V0100--4.PCSI v. DEC-AXPVMS-VMS731_PCSI-V0100--4.P Re: DEC-AXPVMS-VMS731_CDRECORD-V0100--4.PCSI v. DEC-AXPVMS-VMS731_PCSI-V0100--4.P Re: DEC-AXPVMS-VMS731_CDRECORD-V0100--4.PCSI v. DEC-AXPVMS-VMS731_PCSI-V0100--4.G Re: Does RT-11 run on the PDP-11/70?  (was Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates) F Re: Does RT-11 run on the PDP-11/70? (was Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates) Re: EMC on VMS Re: EMC on VMS Re: EMC on VMS Re: EMC on VMS Re: EMC on VMS Re: EMC on VMS Re: EMC on VMS Re: EMC on VMSE Re: IDC reports PC Market Share: Dell over HP by a nose; both pulling E Re: IDC reports PC Market Share: Dell over HP by a nose; both pulling E Re: IDC reports PC Market Share: Dell over HP by a nose; both pulling E Re: IDC reports PC Market Share: Dell over HP by a nose; both pulling E Re: IDC reports PC Market Share: Dell over HP by a nose; both pulling E Re: IDC reports PC Market Share: Dell over HP by a nose; both pulling , Re: IDC: HP ranks No. 1 in 2002 HPTC revenue, Re: IDC: HP ranks No. 1 in 2002 HPTC revenueG RE: Legal status of EVE source code ?, was: RE: Creating an EVE o	r TPU G RE: Legal status of EVE source code ?, was: RE: Creating an EVE o	r TPU B Legal status of EVE source code ?, was: RE: Creating an EVE or TPUF Re: Legal status of EVE source code ?, was: RE: Creating an EVE or TPU" Re: missing multiple blocking ASTs Mutlihomed VMS issue Re: Mutlihomed VMS issue Re: Mutlihomed VMS issue Re: OpenVms Backup- OpenVMS homepage and 'sales.liveperson.net' ? " Re: Packed decimal arithmetic in C" RE: Packed decimal arithmetic in C" RE: Packed decimal arithmetic in C" RE: Packed decimal arithmetic in C" RE: Packed decimal arithmetic in C" Re: Packed decimal arithmetic in C" Re: Packed decimal arithmetic in CC Re: Questions regarding OVMS 7.3-1 and Pathworks v6.0 compatibility C Re: Questions regarding OVMS 7.3-1 and Pathworks v6.0 compatibility # Re: Sun Micro Profit, Revenues Fall # Re: Sun Micro Profit, Revenues Fall # Re: Sun Micro Profit, Revenues Fall # Re: Sun Micro Profit, Revenues Fall # Re: Sun Micro Profit, Revenues Fall # Re: Sun Micro Profit, Revenues Fall 2 Sybase 11.0.3.3 on 6.2-1H3 Multiple Engine Problem Re: Sybase client  Re: Sybase client  Re: The PDP lives  Re: The PDP lives  Re: The PDP lives  Re: The PDP lives  Re: What are HP Insiders doing?  Re: What are HP Insiders doing? = [ANNOUNCEMENT] Migrate obsolete VAX/VMS SW to OpenVMS Itanium A Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Migrate obsolete VAX/VMS SW to OpenVMS Itanium A Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Migrate obsolete VAX/VMS SW to OpenVMS Itanium   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 08:15:49 -0400 5 From: "Brad McCusker" <brad.mccuskerNosp@Mcompaq.com> * Subject: Re: Advanced Server 7.3a Required/ Message-ID: <vhvjfqpsbjhbbd@corp.supernews.com>   / "PEN" <paul.nuneznosp@mhp.com> wrote in message & news:bfgqfj$h59$1@hplms2.hpl.hp.com... > F >I think there's still some confusion here.  The kit referenced in the readme	 >file at:  > L >http://ftp.support.compaq.com/patches/public/Readmes/vms/cpq-axpvms-advance d  >server-v0703-a1-1.README  >  ><snip> B > You can "upgrade" directly from Advanced Server for OpenVMS v7.3
 (including ><snip> G > In fact you can upgrade directly from PATHWORKS for OpenVMS v6.0C (or  later)  I I'll do you one better.  You can install the ECO kit on a system that has J never had any prior version of PATHOWORKS of Advanced Server on it.  Its a8 full kit - no prior version pre-requisites what-so-ever!  L Since at least the early V5 days, that is the way all of our ECOs have been!   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 08:49:37 -0400 ! From: "JustMe" <no.body@no.where> ( Subject: Re: Alpha station boot problems9 Message-ID: <7AQTa.6838$1I5.809934@news20.bellglobal.com>   D On an Alpha 400 there is a jumper on the mainboard that controls theH function of the one and only front panel pushbutton.  Depending upon theK jumper setting, the button either does a 'Reset' (tries to boot again) or a K 'Halt' (gets you to the console prompt).  I was quite perplexed by this old L beast until I found the reference in the system docs.  Moved the jumper, and all was as required.  G If your Alphastation is similar, this may be what you need.  Check your ; system docs, or find the appropriate manual on the HP site.       D "Michael Moroney" <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> wrote in message" news:bfmj0n$v79$1@pcls4.std.com...H If control-C doesn't work, try control-P or the front panel halt button.   --   -Mike    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jul 2003 07:40:29 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 0 Subject: Re: Creating an EVE or TPU Section File3 Message-ID: <wj16Gi9iXR8D@eisner.encompasserve.org>   g In article <2de080f3.0307230523.1b6b992b@posting.google.com>, hari@transcomm.uk.com (HariHaran) writes: F > It's so long since I last had to do this that I've forgotten how, soA > please can some kind soul remind me how to create an EVE or TPU  > Section file.  Hari     (    In TPU hit the DO key and enter save.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 13:01:00 GMT 9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> W Subject: Re: D.H. Brown: EV7 AlphaServers Deliver Enhanced RAS and Powerful Performance 0 Message-ID: <gMQTa.791$5Z3.574@news.cpqcorp.net>  K "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> ; wrote in message news:bfo6n9$950$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com...  >   ; > This is the same Fred who accused Sun of tricking out our & > compilers to get a good SPEC result. >   G The games Sun used in boosting a Spec result are widely known, and have I re-sparc'ed a lively debate on how this type of stuff might be prevented. E In short, a specific compiler optimization for a very limited type of L application juiced up your numbers.  The approximate number of people in theL real world who will see that increase (which still leave you way behind) you can count on one hand.  L But of course, your come back is that benchmarks are meaningless, unless youH happen to hold the lead in one.  Do you *really* want to start comparing
 SPEC numbers?   H > Facts arn't your strong point Fred you have a long and sorry record of- > failing to back your FUD up with any facts.  >   I Sure.  Just like your handwaving on reliability and hot swap.  Or how Sun A had turned the corner, and how the HP merger would be a disaster.   D > Its a wonderfull illustration of your whole style someone producesC > a number, statistic whatever that you disagree with, you complain B > that its a BS number, statistic etc you get asked to explain why > deafening silence ensues.  >   L Apparently I don't have the free time that you do for marketing FUD.  Things" a little slow in the sales office?   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 09:51:49 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> Y Subject: Re: D.H. Brown: EV7 AlphaServers Deliver Enhanced RAS and Powerful Performance P 0 Message-ID: <bfo6n9$950$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:M > "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> = > wrote in message news:bfmatn$hlg$4@new-usenet.uk.sun.com...  >  >>Fred Kleinsorge wrote: >>2 >>>Buy a clue.  We'll all chip in a couple Euro's. >>> & >>>"Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" >>) > <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>  > > >>>wrote in message news:bfj0ir$cr6$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com... >>>  >>>  >> >>2 >>Is that Fred the MBA or Fred the person who just >>lost another argument. >> >  > K > Fred doesn't have an MBA.  Fred isn't a sales dweeb like Andrew the Troll 	 > either.  >  > 3 >>When will you learn Fred ? You role in this group 4 >>is to make me look good, you seem to be doing this >>for Bill as well keep it up. >> >  > L > Andrew, I learned long ago that it isn't worth arguing with you - you playH > loose with facts and positions, and when cornered refuse to respond orL > continue to change the subject.  But I can hardly resist an occasional pot > shot at you. >   9 This is the same Fred who accused Sun of tricking out our $ compilers to get a good SPEC result.  G Facts arn't your strong point Fred you have a long and sorry record of  + failing to back your FUD up with any facts.     M > The facts are that you haven't really a clue about the Itanium costs, sales E > data, revenue or profit data, or how R&D is written off, or how P&L I > statements are done.  For instance, you continue to quote "total sales" I > numbers for Itanium that seem about the size of *specific sales* I have  > seen.   C I have the latest IDC results, they show that there were a total of A less than 2000 Itanium Units sold last quarter by all the itanium  vendors.  D You may disagree with the results but you havn't seen fit to provideB any of your own to dispute them you have simply disageed with them- without anything to explain why you disagree.   B Its a wonderfull illustration of your whole style someone producesA a number, statistic whatever that you disagree with, you complain @ that its a BS number, statistic etc you get asked to explain why deafening silence ensues.   ? My advice is either not to respond at all or try harder on your 
 responses.   regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 15:09:09 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> Y Subject: Re: D.H. Brown: EV7 AlphaServers Deliver Enhanced RAS and Powerful Performance P 0 Message-ID: <bfopa6$f6h$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Robert Klute wrote: G > On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 15:59:36 +0100, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy 0 > <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote: >  >  > ! >>What margins on Systems Sales ?  >>7 >>HP don't make a profit on systems sales currently and : >>historically they havn't either. Thats one of the things* >>that people were expecting Carly to fix. >  > 3 > Will you cut that out.  People in glass houses...  > 3 > Sun, your favorite company, this last quarter had  >  > Product Revenue		2,003 > Product CoS		1,110 > Product Gross Margin	  893 > G > Now, here is where you can argue with me, but let's assume 3/4 of R&D G > was product R&D (I think it is a little low), as opposed to services, = > and that SGA was proportionl to revenue, so about 67%, then  >  > Product R&D (est)	 361 > Product SGA (est)	 554 > Product Income		 (23)  >  >   : There is a very big difference between not making a profit; in one quarter or even a couple of years and never making a  profit.   : And your very detailed attempts to guess what Suns systems< business made or lost last quarter does not detract from the: fact that HPQ's systems businesses have never consistently7 made a profit. It was after all one of the reasons that ( Carly was brought in to run the company.  ; If you think back to the battles over the CPQ-HP merger you = will also remember that Walter Hewlett one of your main board : members was clear that systems did not make HP money hence< his opposition to merging with another company that produced computer systems.   @ He also made it clear that HP's profitable business was printing. and that was what delivered shareholder value.  E Carlys defence was that the merger would allow the systems businesses C to become profitable, this hasn't happened HP has simply chosen to  D restate systems business profitability differently e.g in a way that. makes them look profitable even if they arn't.       Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jul 2003 23:25:55 -0700/ From: p.l.vermeulen@hccnet.nl (Peter Vermeulen) O Subject: Re: Debugging VAX Scan programs on Alpha (was: New OpenVMS-to-Itanium) = Message-ID: <e37e9772.0307232225.43757215@posting.google.com>   h Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote in message news:<Cdl5$3pX3EnQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>...q > In article <e37e9772.0307230605.40a4b06b@posting.google.com>, p.l.vermeulen@hccnet.nl (Peter Vermeulen) writes:  > I > > The port of the VAX Scan compile to Alpha (AlphaScan) that is done by I > > SRI is a very successful one. We have used the compiler for some time F > > now on our Alpha systems and the applications run very well on theC > > Alpha. There is also debugger support on the Alpha with limited @ > > functionality on examining local variables but not on globalJ > > variables. In the (standard) OpenVMS debugger normal display of source1 > > code and stepping functionality is available. J > > With that I don't know what you mean by "the undebuggable Alpha", this! > > is not the experience I have.  > G > You must have some very simple Scan programs if you have never needed E > to set breakpoints on Event types using the debugger on VAX.  Debug F > support is the major feature that set VAX Scan apart from Snobol and. > similar languages, as far as I am concerned.  F That may be the case, it is always difficult to discuss what is simpleE and what is not. Still we have recompiled about 250,000 lines of SCAN @ sources and now are running very succesffuly on the Alpha. I tooE learned a lot about how Scan is "scanning" input files/strings in the F passed by using the SET TRACE/EVENT debugger facilities. These are notF available on the Alpha but still all programs are running on the Alpha and new development is little.? If there is new development and you really need the extra debug F facilities you can always go back to a VAX system (when available) andD do some special debugging there. That is still the beauty of it all,F all sources are unchanged and will compile on both platforms. You just0 recompile and link on a VAX and start debugging.   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jul 2003 06:00:48 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) O Subject: Re: Debugging VAX Scan programs on Alpha (was: New OpenVMS-to-Itanium) 3 Message-ID: <X5kpuIHHQnju@eisner.encompasserve.org>   o In article <e37e9772.0307232225.43757215@posting.google.com>, p.l.vermeulen@hccnet.nl (Peter Vermeulen) writes: j > Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote in message news:<Cdl5$3pX3EnQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>...r >> In article <e37e9772.0307230605.40a4b06b@posting.google.com>, p.l.vermeulen@hccnet.nl (Peter Vermeulen) writes: >>  J >> > The port of the VAX Scan compile to Alpha (AlphaScan) that is done byJ >> > SRI is a very successful one. We have used the compiler for some timeG >> > now on our Alpha systems and the applications run very well on the D >> > Alpha. There is also debugger support on the Alpha with limitedA >> > functionality on examining local variables but not on global K >> > variables. In the (standard) OpenVMS debugger normal display of source 2 >> > code and stepping functionality is available.K >> > With that I don't know what you mean by "the undebuggable Alpha", this " >> > is not the experience I have. >>  H >> You must have some very simple Scan programs if you have never neededF >> to set breakpoints on Event types using the debugger on VAX.  DebugG >> support is the major feature that set VAX Scan apart from Snobol and / >> similar languages, as far as I am concerned.  > H > That may be the case, it is always difficult to discuss what is simpleG > and what is not. Still we have recompiled about 250,000 lines of SCAN B > sources and now are running very succesffuly on the Alpha. I tooG > learned a lot about how Scan is "scanning" input files/strings in the : > passed by using the SET TRACE/EVENT debugger facilities.  B Yes, that is exactly what I was talking about (even though I wrote! SET BREAK rather than SET TRACE).    > These are not H > available on the Alpha but still all programs are running on the Alpha  > and new development is little.  I Working software rarely needs a debugger.  If your goal is not to develop J software, the lack of debug support for Scan on Alpha indeed may not hurt.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 13:00:20 GMT 3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond) Y Subject: Re: DEC-AXPVMS-VMS731_CDRECORD-V0100--4.PCSI v.  DEC-AXPVMS-VMS731_PCSI-V0100--4 0 Message-ID: <ELQTa.790$sR3.512@news.cpqcorp.net>  ( In article <3F1F4CB8.424DF5DD@fsi.net>, 3 "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:   I >I was going to suggest extracting the the CLD for the PRODUCT verb using A >the freeware VERB utility and simply editing the .CLD to add the H >"DEFAULT" attribute to the SAVE qualifier and then modifying DCLTABLES.: >/SAVE does not appear to be in my V7.2-2 system, however.  E That is not the problem.  It is this: There are old/existing command  B procedures that execute PRODUCT INSTALL commands.  Since the /SAVEA qaulifier did not exist, they do not use it.  In effect, they get A /NOSAVE functionality, because there is no /SAVE functionality in # older versions of the PCSI utility.   J If the default were to be made /SAVE, these old/exiting command proceduresH would now work differently.  Is that bad?  Yes!  It is a legitimate userI consideration to determine whether or not the space required for recovery J data sets is available.  (I have a copy of one patch kit --  tcpip_eco -- F that is over 100,000 disk blocks.  I think some of the system remedial kits can get pretty big too.)   K Same logic applies to /[NO]RECOVERY_MODE.  Imagine if an OpenVMS upgrade -- E including DECwindows, TCP/IP and DECnet Plus -- suddenly operated in  K RECOVERY_MODE.  The recovery data set would take about as much room as the  H installed operating system and LPs.  I doubt that many people have that % much free space on their system disk!    --  J       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 12:12:03 GMT 2 From: "George Pagliarulo" <georgepag@adelphia.net>Y Subject: Re: DEC-AXPVMS-VMS731_CDRECORD-V0100--4.PCSI v. DEC-AXPVMS-VMS731_PCSI-V0100--4. 0 Message-ID: <n2QTa.789$624.505@news.cpqcorp.net>  L     I'll see if I can ad dsome clarity to the way the ECO kits work with the new PCSI functionality.   D >>And then, after the magic update has been installed, attempting toE >>install the CDRECORD patch offers the following unattractive choice  >>G >>* If you continue, recovery data for the patches listed above will be  deleted.L >>* The deletion of recovery data does not affect the installation status ofB >>* patches applied to products that are not participating in this
 operation.J >>* However, continuing with this operation prevents you from uninstallingL >>* these patches at a future time by use of the PRODUCT UNDO PATCH command.   >>Do you want to continue? [NO]   L >>That new PRODUCT UNDO PATCH command sounds nice, but how useful is >>it if* every stray patch wipes the recovery data?  I     This question comes directly from PCSI. A kit developer has no way of I controlling whether it is asked or not. It will only be asked if there is J already recovery data on the system from a previous installation. If thereB is no recovery data already saved, and the user forgets to use theI /SAVE_RECOVERY_DATA qualifier (something I do all the time), the question J will not be asked, PCSI would allow the installation and not save recoveryI data. Because of this, the OS ECO kits themselves have a similar question 9 which acts as a double-check when a user has not used the J /SAVE_RECOVERY_DATA qualifier on PRODUCT INSTALL command. If you install aL kit and do not use the  /SAVE_RECOVERY_DATA qualifier, you will then see the# following text from the kit itself:   L        "You have the option of saving directories, files, and libraries that are L          replaced, modified, or deleted by the installation of this remedial kit.L         These files along with a copy of the product database will be storedI         on the system disk in a separate directory tree. Choosing to save  thisL         recovery data will allow you to uninstall this patch at a later time using ?         the PRODUCT UNDO PATCH command. If recovery data is not H         saved you will not be able to remove this remedial kit from your system.   7                                       **** WARNING **** J        If you choose to install this kit without saving recovery data, you	 will lose K        your ability to uninstall any previously installed remedial kits for  which $        recovery data has been saved.  8         Do you wish to save this recovery data [YES] ? "  K     Answering yes to this question will have the same effect as having used L the /SAVE_RECOVERY_DATA qualifier to begin with. Because of the way this wasJ implemented in the kits, if you do see the PCSI-generated, "Do you want toI continue" question, and answer yes, then, as a double check, you will see L the above text, warning and "Do you wish to save this recovery data [YES] ?"	 question.   G      One thing to note here is that there is also another newqualifier, L /RECOVERY_MODE. This allows PCSI to fully restore the system to it's pre-kitJ state if an installation should fail. By default, all OS ECO kits check toJ see if this qualifier was used on the install command and, if not, set it.K The result is that all the OS ECO kits install with /RECOVERY_MODE enabled.   K >>My first concern was that when the logical name NO_ASK$BACKUP is defined: ! >>$ DEFINE/SYS NO_ASK$BACKUP TRUE  >>the question: 1 >>Do you wish to save this recovery data [YES] ?: F >>is still asked from a command procedure to do the ECO install, which4 defeats the >>purpose of defining that logical name.  J The NO_ASK$BACKUP logical does not relate to the recovery operation. It isK used to disable the 'got backup?' question so that the kit can be installed H with a com file. It has no affect on the recovery questions - which is aL problem. Users should be able to override the recovery question in a similarK manner for com file installations. This will be implemented in the ECO kits J but there is a risk. If a user overrides the question and does not use theH /SAVE qualifier on the installation command, they will not save recoveryJ data. Note that this would only override the second, kit-generated "Do youJ wish to save this recovery data" question. If the installation is one thatH would cause the PCSI-generated "Do you want to continue?" question, thatK will still be asked. As stated earlier, the kit developer can't do anything A to override that question. Like Charlie, I'll raise this with the  developers.   K     As far as the CDRECORD kit having an incorrect CPU kit reference - yep, 2 too much cut and paste. The kit will be corrected.  + George Pagliarulo - Hewlett Packard Company # george.dontusethispagliarulo@hp.com         @ "Charlie Hammond" <hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com> wrote in message* news:4_ATa.749$Bi3.409@news.cpqcorp.net...; > In article <bfmgjj$g7bth$1@ID-152801.news.uni-berlin.de>, ( > Michael Unger <unger@decus.de> writes: > : > >Is "/SAVE" the default behaviour [for PRODUCT INSTALL]? >  > As previously stated, no.  > F > However, I understand that OpenVMS patch kits are being coded to useF > an EXECUTE PREINSTALL procedure that will check and warn if /SAVE isE > not specified.  (The details of how this is done are still a bit in 1 > flux, but will be in the V7.3-2 documentation.)  >  > --L >       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAH >           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)L >       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's. >    ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 07:32:13 -0500 (CDT)  From: sms@antinode.orgY Subject: Re: DEC-AXPVMS-VMS731_CDRECORD-V0100--4.PCSI v. DEC-AXPVMS-VMS731_PCSI-V0100--4. ) Message-ID: <03072407321385@antinode.org>   2 From: "George Pagliarulo" <georgepag@adelphia.net>   > [...]  If you install a N > kit and do not use the  /SAVE_RECOVERY_DATA qualifier, you will then see the% > following text from the kit itself:  > N >        "You have the option of saving directories, files, and libraries that > are N >          replaced, modified, or deleted by the installation of this remedial > kit.N >         These files along with a copy of the product database will be storedK >         on the system disk in a separate directory tree. Choosing to save  > thisN >         recovery data will allow you to uninstall this patch at a later time > using A >         the PRODUCT UNDO PATCH command. If recovery data is not J >         saved you will not be able to remove this remedial kit from your	 > system.  > 9 >                                       **** WARNING **** L >        If you choose to install this kit without saving recovery data, you > will lose M >        your ability to uninstall any previously installed remedial kits for  > which & >        recovery data has been saved. > : >         Do you wish to save this recovery data [YES] ? "  G    If I actually had gotten a message like this, I wouldn't have lodged  the complaint.    H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode,org     Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 09:52:03 -0400  From: norm.raphael@metso.comY Subject: Re: DEC-AXPVMS-VMS731_CDRECORD-V0100--4.PCSI v. DEC-AXPVMS-VMS731_PCSI-V0100--4. ? Message-ID: <OF42BE5FEF.294FE607-ON85256D6D.004A22BF@metso.com>   K This looks like too much of a good thing.  The eco process now has - as you  state - some of the ' problems and concerns of a vms upgrade.   I Does PCSI check for enough space for the recovery data on the system disk  before proceeding?= Is there a message informing how much space will be required? G Can the option be changed on-the-fly if the space is deemed inadequate? < Is the process terminated if the space is deemed inadequate?9 Can the recovery data be stored/accessed on another disk? < [This seems akin to the dump-off-the-system-disk situation.]  H If I have it correctly, if save is not done on the current eco, then all! ability to undo previous eco's is A forfeit, and all recoverysets are deleted, which seems draconian.   J Of course, all this begs the question of why one would need to undo a PCSI install, since QA - should have obviated any need for undoing....     ) From:  hammond@not on 07/24/2003 09:00 AM   ? Please respond to hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond)    To:    Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com cc:   ; Subject:    Re: DEC-AXPVMS-VMS731_CDRECORD-V0100--4.PCSI v. +        DEC-AXPVMS-VMS731_PCSI-V0100--4.PCSI     ' In article <3F1F4CB8.424DF5DD@fsi.net>, 3 "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:   I >I was going to suggest extracting the the CLD for the PRODUCT verb using A >the freeware VERB utility and simply editing the .CLD to add the H >"DEFAULT" attribute to the SAVE qualifier and then modifying DCLTABLES.: >/SAVE does not appear to be in my V7.2-2 system, however.  D That is not the problem.  It is this: There are old/existing commandB procedures that execute PRODUCT INSTALL commands.  Since the /SAVEA qaulifier did not exist, they do not use it.  In effect, they get A /NOSAVE functionality, because there is no /SAVE functionality in # older versions of the PCSI utility.   J If the default were to be made /SAVE, these old/exiting command proceduresH would now work differently.  Is that bad?  Yes!  It is a legitimate userI consideration to determine whether or not the space required for recovery I data sets is available.  (I have a copy of one patch kit --  tcpip_eco -- F that is over 100,000 disk blocks.  I think some of the system remedial kits can get pretty big too.)   K Same logic applies to /[NO]RECOVERY_MODE.  Imagine if an OpenVMS upgrade -- D including DECwindows, TCP/IP and DECnet Plus -- suddenly operated inJ RECOVERY_MODE.  The recovery data set would take about as much room as theG installed operating system and LPs.  I doubt that many people have that % much free space on their system disk!    --J       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jul 2003 09:18:38 -04007 From: pechter@shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) P Subject: Re: Does RT-11 run on the PDP-11/70?  (was Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates)- Message-ID: <bfombe$8b6$1@shell.monmouth.com>   * In article <ikhlfb.4u3.ln@news.online.de>,C Christian Corti  <Christian.Corti@studserv.uni-stuttgart.de> wrote: G >And what about 11/45s? At least mine shows a nice pattern with RSX11M. I >RT11 shows nothing interesting at all, neither does any version of UNIX.  > 
 >Christian  . You need to sysgen RT11 for the light pattern.  C It has a pretty slick one. IIRC it had one light on each end moving E to the center bit -- they touch, then bounce out to the ends and then   two lights do it and then three.   Bill --  M +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ M | Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter    |        pechter@shell.monmouth.com        | M |   Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in  | N |   a James Bond movie              -- Dennis Miller                        | M +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jul 2003 09:11:40 -04007 From: pechter@shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) O Subject: Re: Does RT-11 run on the PDP-11/70? (was Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates) - Message-ID: <bfoluc$807$1@shell.monmouth.com>   + In article <bfhl9g09bc@enews2.newsguy.com>, 1 Zane H. Healy <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> wrote: J >In alt.sys.pdp10 Bill/Carolyn Pechter <pechter@shell.monmouth.com> wrote:% >> The RT11 console was on the 86x0.   > H >Wasn't the console for those either a Pro350 or Pro380 running some odd >verison of P/OS.  >  >		Zane     A Nope the Pro3x0 Vax console happened after I left DEC on the 88xx = and 87xx  IIRC.  The console on the 86x0 was a T11 with RL02.    Bill --  M +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ M | Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter    |        pechter@shell.monmouth.com        | M |   Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in  | N |   a James Bond movie              -- Dennis Miller                        | M +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jul 2003 23:27:12 -0700% From: Bart.Zorn@xs4all.nl (Bart Zorn)  Subject: Re: EMC on VMS = Message-ID: <a98cd882.0307232227.7790c1b4@posting.google.com>   f young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote in message news:<DbRWP4Fq3P7e@eisner.encompasserve.org>...g > In article <a98cd882.0307230551.76245540@posting.google.com>, Bart.Zorn@xs4all.nl (Bart Zorn) writes: z > > keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) wrote in message news:<cf15391e.0306261251.3c5fbb89@posting.google.com>...k > >> young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote in message news:<7AwT9yEDoxfJ@eisner.encompasserve.org>... > > >> > The Symmetrix has its own substitute for READL, WRITEL. > >>  J > >> Then why not support SCSI READL/WRITEL, even if it really is emulatedK > >> internally using their own substitute mechanism?  How hard could it be F > >> technically to just make it do the right thing for these two SCSIK > >> commands?  READL/WRITEL are part of the SCSI standard.  Not supporting E > >> them makes our VMS customers doubt EMC's depth of committment to " > >> support for the VMS platform. > > F > > I agree. If I create a HBVS from two EMC volumes, it seems to workF > > perfectly (and, for that matter, about three times faster than theH > > same two volumes in a SRDF configuration!). But I cannot really relyH > > on that HBVS configuration simply because nobody can exactly predictF > > (well, maybe you can, Keith!) what will happen in a situation thatH > > HBVS wants to use READL or WRITEL. Most likely the volume set memberG > > will be dropped from the set. In the end, you could wind up with an: > > empty set! > >  > @ > 	Okay.  How about example?  In nearly 2 years of HBVS and EMC ; > 	Symmetrix, no bad blocks.  Am I shocked, surprised?  No.P > B > 	After all, if the Sym never has bad blocks (1), the Zen of the @ > 	situation is HBVS doesn't ever have to perform shadowing dataI > 	repair, READL/WRITEL never come into play.  EMC isn't violating a SCSID5 > 	protocol, READL/WRITEL are optional SCSI commands:. >  > http://216.239.39.104/search?q=cache:FVuzIrrdRcMJ:kuhub.cc.ku.edu/www/html/721final/5423/5423pro_010.html+shadowing+readl+writel&hl=en&lr=lang_en&ie=UTF-8 >        [ S n i p ]M  > OK, you may be right about that. But as long as I don't have aC Software/Hardware Product Description and a support contract from a = vendor, I cannot use HBVS on EMC in a production environment.   	 Bart Zornn  , P.S. Why don't vendors support this, anyway?   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 08:55:02 GMTr" From: Lee <lytmah@telusplanet.net> Subject: Re: EMC on VMSM/ Message-ID: <3F1F9F13.95B51B97@telusplanet.net>   , My employer is in healthcare in a major way.0 The configuration is multi-site, HBVS, HSJ50/40,. 24x7.  We run a Cerner application and another/ third party application on the cluster, but oure& programs are 90% home-grown using RMS./ The VMScluster has shown good RAS over the lastE. decade.  I can't remember the last time we had  corruption of any RMS data file./ I have taken delivery of several 9-GB EMC disks 1 at one site and will be putting them thru initialt9 testing for compatibility and functionality.  PreliminaryS3 testing has shown them to be pretty fast.  The next - step will be to bring up a same number of EMC 2 disks at a second site for extensive HBVS testing.2 If no problems are encountered and I am absolutely2 certain that the EMC disks are compatible, we will, be migrating (using HBVS) several hundred GB0 over to EMC.  The EMC symmetric will not be used for system disks, only data.     "David J. Dachtera" wrote:   > Rob Young wrote: > ...n   -- Lee1   Email:  lytmah@telusplanet.net   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 10:08:10 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>  Subject: Re: EMC on VMSs0 Message-ID: <bfo7lr$9fd$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Rob Young wrote:] > In article <3F1F45E4.40687350@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:  >  >>Rob Young wrote: >>h >>>In article <a98cd882.0307230551.76245540@posting.google.com>, Bart.Zorn@xs4all.nl (Bart Zorn) writes:	 >>>[snip]s >>> J >>>>Generally you use HBVS because you want the best RAS features. You getJ >>>>those using components which are fully supported by HP. If that is notE >>>>possible, for instance because the management of your company has-I >>>>decided that you have to use EMC, than you would want to use at leastuF >>>>something that complies to the specifications that are required by0 >>>>HBVS. Unfortunately, EMC is not among those. >>>cG >>>        Sure - an HBVS requirement.  Unless of course you will never$D >>>        use it, ignore the requirement for HBVS - and sleep well! >>I >>...until a system disk shadow-set member drops, and then eventually theqH >>other, and you're left with an empty shadow-set at 03:45 (a.m.), a 40+G >>mile commute (circa. 1 hr) and who knows how many hours until you can G >>get EMC to configure new storage-sets for you so that you can restorey# >>your backup of the system disk...  >> >  > H > 	You are talking out of your hat.  EMC doesn't have to be involved at D > 	all now in configuring Symmetrix storage.  Second, their storage  > 	doesn't go away.  >   1 It does go away I know I have seen it vanish, nota long after a microcode upgrade.   9 It would make a lot more sense Rob if you tried modifying-6 your responses so that you don't always get caught out6 with black and white type answers when the reallity is closer to grey.g   Regardsa Andrew Harrisonn   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jul 2003 08:14:19 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)  Subject: Re: EMC on VMSb3 Message-ID: <ZYFw$gNOcFPb@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  e In article <a98cd882.0307232227.7790c1b4@posting.google.com>, Bart.Zorn@xs4all.nl (Bart Zorn) writes: h > young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote in message news:<DbRWP4Fq3P7e@eisner.encompasserve.org>...   >  >     [ S n i p ]u > @ > OK, you may be right about that. But as long as I don't have aE > Software/Hardware Product Description and a support contract from aa? > vendor, I cannot use HBVS on EMC in a production environment.e > . > P.S. Why don't vendors support this, anyway?    B 	A mystery I suppose.  Could be a very good technical reason, likeD 	why bother.  If you hang 20 operating systems off your storage, theG 	better route would be to ALWAYS serve up good blocks.  So READL/WRITEL:D 	is unnecessary (I suppose).  Especially if 1 vendor out of 20 take  	advantage of it.   B 	But if it is really that important to you, contact EMC.  I'm sureD 	you will eventually find a resource that will describe in technical? 	detail how they avoid bad blocks with disk and cache scrubbings 	beyond this level of detail:E  K  Symmetrix has full state-of-the-art self-monitoring, self-diagnosing, and,.N where possible, self-repairing algorithms. The objective of this philosophy isI the avoidance of user-observable errors. Symmetrix will actively identifyrD internal temporary errors that could potentially lead to any type ofL user-observable hard failure and attempt to correct them prior to data beingM unavailable to a user or an application. This error avoidance is accomplished9G through a process of error detection, error logging, and notification. e  N  During idle time, the disks are read ("disk scrubbing"), looking for any typeK of error. Upon sensing a correctable error, the error is corrected and then L rewritten. The block of data is read again to verify that it was a permanentJ correction. If it was correctable, the pertinent information is logged andO scrubbing continues. If the error was not permanently corrected, the process iseN repeated until it is either corrected or the error recovery routines determineO that a skip defect must be executed. If the skip defect must be executed, it isaO done via Symmetrix microcode. When the skip defect is complete, notification iseL made and the scrubbing process continues. Should a sufficient number of skipF defects occur on a track that would make an alternate track assignmentF necessary, that too is accomplished through Symmetrix microcode and is transparent to the user.    I  "Cache scrubbing" is accomplished in a manner similar to disk scrubbing. M During idle time, cache is checked for any single bit errors. Should a singleyM bit error be encountered, it is corrected, and the line of cache is rewrittenyM and then read to determine if it was permanently corrected. If the single bittM was permanently corrected, a counter is incremented, the error is logged, and-J processing continues. If the error was not permanently corrected the firstO time, the correction process continues until either the correction is permanent:M or microcode determines the single bit error is not correctable. Should it be K determined that the single bit error is permanent, that section of cache is:N taken offline. This process of "fencing off" allows EMC to take the section ofC cache out of service prior to the customer seeing a temporary error     B 	The REALLY important detail would be the analysis involved.  What@ 	is the statistical probability of reading a bad block?  If that= 	is a very very remote possibility (i.e. you have better oddseA 	of hitting the POWERBALL jackpot twice in a row, whatever), thent: 	you can forget about it.   If that level of detail is out? 	there, I haven't found it.  But then again, I'm not interested B 	in finding it and haven't spent the time searching for it either.  ? 	Finally, if the customer insists on using unprotected storage ,A 	(i.e. non-hypers - JBODs), you fill out an RPQ acknowledging you + 	are violating best practices.  I wouldn't.t  A 	"But doesn't that mean the storage is that much more expensive?"   A 	Don't bring up $$$.  That is an entirely different ball of wax /e
 	rat hole.   				 Rob   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jul 2003 09:45:14 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)  Subject: Re: EMC on VMS.3 Message-ID: <GdXFmI9BQ8nu@eisner.encompasserve.org>g  [ In article <3F1F4F40.ECF75B4F@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:y > Rob Young wrote: >> a^ >> In article <3F1F45E4.40687350@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes: >> > Rob Young wrote:e >> >> k >> >> In article <a98cd882.0307230551.76245540@posting.google.com>, Bart.Zorn@xs4all.nl (Bart Zorn) writes:i >> >> [snip]N >> >> > Generally you use HBVS because you want the best RAS features. You getN >> >> > those using components which are fully supported by HP. If that is notI >> >> > possible, for instance because the management of your company has M >> >> > decided that you have to use EMC, than you would want to use at leasttJ >> >> > something that complies to the specifications that are required by4 >> >> > HBVS. Unfortunately, EMC is not among those. >> >>aJ >> >>         Sure - an HBVS requirement.  Unless of course you will neverG >> >>         use it, ignore the requirement for HBVS - and sleep well!e >> >L >> > ...until a system disk shadow-set member drops, and then eventually theK >> > other, and you're left with an empty shadow-set at 03:45 (a.m.), a 40+0J >> > mile commute (circa. 1 hr) and who knows how many hours until you canJ >> > get EMC to configure new storage-sets for you so that you can restore& >> > your backup of the system disk... >> > >> @O >>         You are talking out of your hat.  EMC doesn't have to be involved at1K >>         all now in configuring Symmetrix storage.  Second, their storagec >>         doesn't go away.t > 9 > Remember that one of VMS's niche markets is healthcare.y > H > To quote Capt. Mancuso in "The Hunt for Red October", "Are you willing* > to bet your life on that?" I wouldn't... >   < 	Systems that are important have multiple levels of downtimeD 	procedures in place.  Regardless of levels of RAS, "things" happen.> 	Storage becomes unavailable, systems go down, data centers goB 	down, networks go down.  Besides, you do have maintenance windows< 	of deliberate downtime even for systems that are advertised9 	as 7x24.  I try to minimize those.  You get the picture.o  ? 	Heart lung , anesthesiology machines are a different breed of  = 	machine.  Those systems demand very high RAS.  Your life mayr 	depend on it working.  G > More importantly, will it pass a CAP inspection? Will the FDA certifyd > it?m  ; 	Does EMC storage have a big presence in health care?  Yes.w> 	Is EMC storage certified?  I don't know.  But it is important@ 	enough (large money involved) I'm sure any vendor would do what 	it takes to meet guidelines.    				Robn   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jul 2003 10:35:03 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)P Subject: Re: EMC on VMSe3 Message-ID: <LOM5FVlQ0kKQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>e   In article <bfo7lr$9fd$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: > Rob Young wrote:^ >> In article <3F1F45E4.40687350@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes: >>   >>>Rob Young wrote:t >>>hi >>>>In article <a98cd882.0307230551.76245540@posting.google.com>, Bart.Zorn@xs4all.nl (Bart Zorn) writes:e
 >>>>[snip] >>>>K >>>>>Generally you use HBVS because you want the best RAS features. You getrK >>>>>those using components which are fully supported by HP. If that is not-F >>>>>possible, for instance because the management of your company hasJ >>>>>decided that you have to use EMC, than you would want to use at leastG >>>>>something that complies to the specifications that are required by41 >>>>>HBVS. Unfortunately, EMC is not among those.e >>>>H >>>>        Sure - an HBVS requirement.  Unless of course you will neverE >>>>        use it, ignore the requirement for HBVS - and sleep well!. >>>mJ >>>...until a system disk shadow-set member drops, and then eventually theI >>>other, and you're left with an empty shadow-set at 03:45 (a.m.), a 40+lH >>>mile commute (circa. 1 hr) and who knows how many hours until you canH >>>get EMC to configure new storage-sets for you so that you can restore$ >>>your backup of the system disk... >>>  >> c >> lI >> 	You are talking out of your hat.  EMC doesn't have to be involved at sE >> 	all now in configuring Symmetrix storage.  Second, their storage n >> 	doesn't go away. >> e > $ > with black and white type answers   : 	Nitpicking is all you have to offer, I'm not surprised.    ) http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=10476p  M Sun told its customers "How To Detect Very Rare (1:83,000) UltraSPARC III FPUs
 Failures".  M The firm told its customers that before shipping, all Sun microprocessors are 9 tested to make sure that they work properly. That's good.   M But "over time" a "very small proportion" of CPUs might develop the conditiont" known as "electrical degradation".   	Son of Zinc Whiskers?   	"Sun servers don't go away."y  A 	Ooooohhhhh....  Black and white.  They do go away.  I would havea 	been more accurate there.   				Robs   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 17:30:14 +0100lO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>n Subject: Re: EMC on VMS 0 Message-ID: <bfp1im$hv9$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Rob Young wrote: > In article <bfo7lr$9fd$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: >  >>Rob Young wrote: >>^ >>>In article <3F1F45E4.40687350@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes: >>>- >>>- >>>>Rob Young wrote: >>>> >>>>j >>>>>In article <a98cd882.0307230551.76245540@posting.google.com>, Bart.Zorn@xs4all.nl (Bart Zorn) writes: >>>>>[snip]  >>>>>- >>>>>iL >>>>>>Generally you use HBVS because you want the best RAS features. You getL >>>>>>those using components which are fully supported by HP. If that is notG >>>>>>possible, for instance because the management of your company hassK >>>>>>decided that you have to use EMC, than you would want to use at least.H >>>>>>something that complies to the specifications that are required by2 >>>>>>HBVS. Unfortunately, EMC is not among those. >>>>>lH >>>>>       Sure - an HBVS requirement.  Unless of course you will neverE >>>>>       use it, ignore the requirement for HBVS - and sleep well!  >>>>K >>>>...until a system disk shadow-set member drops, and then eventually theoJ >>>>other, and you're left with an empty shadow-set at 03:45 (a.m.), a 40+I >>>>mile commute (circa. 1 hr) and who knows how many hours until you canrI >>>>get EMC to configure new storage-sets for you so that you can restore % >>>>your backup of the system disk...a >>>> >>>n >>>gI >>>	You are talking out of your hat.  EMC doesn't have to be involved at aE >>>	all now in configuring Symmetrix storage.  Second, their storage r >>>	doesn't go away. >>>i >>$ >>with black and white type answers  >  > < > 	Nitpicking is all you have to offer, I'm not surprised.   >  Don't be an arse Rob.   6 EMC's arn't fault tollerent and they do go away and if7 you really want me to make you look small I can providei/ you with plenty of examples of them going away.   8 Upgrading to a duff version of the microcode is just one7 example.  Not having a mirrored write cache is another.p  9 If you must make this kind of claim please research a bitN6 harder first so that when you get challenged you don't, end up having to resort to personal attacks.   Regardsa Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jul 2003 11:57:09 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)s Subject: Re: EMC on VMSa3 Message-ID: <sV4i0YsGBbdK@eisner.encompasserve.org>e   In article <bfp1im$hv9$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: > Rob Young wrote:   >>>m% >>>with black and white type answers H >> d >> u= >> 	Nitpicking is all you have to offer, I'm not surprised.  V >> S > Don't be an arse Rob.g > 8 > EMC's arn't fault tollerent and they do go away and if9 > you really want me to make you look small I can providem1 > you with plenty of examples of them going away.c >   ' 	Plenty?  Hah.  gunbroker.com - sure.  t  : > Upgrading to a duff version of the microcode is just one9 > example.  Not having a mirrored write cache is another.i  5 	The mirrored cache FUD is a good one.  Of course you-> 	probably have a dozen public examples of cache boards blowing 	out, right?  No.c  ? 	You are getting in on this very late.  The issue that you havet@ 	your nose in here is HBVS and EMC.  If you are shadowing across@ 	two datacenters, losing storage isn't the problem.  The problem; 	is bad blocks, okay?  EMC doesn't deliver bad blocks.  EMCdC 	storage doesn't go away.  (Now there is an implied "mostly" there,o@ 	you are just nitpicking my friend).  AND if the storage somehowF 	went away (datacenter outtage), you don't have filesystem corruption,> 	you are running VMS.  The write made it or it didn't.  If theB 	writes are that important, they go to two different PLACES at theB 	same time and we have 3 separate OSes performing that trick using 	varying techniques.  ? 	But you trot in and pick on the blanket statement "EMC storages; 	doesn't go away."  Now a polite lad might have pointed outMA 	that isn't correct and that statement doesn't ever apply all the @ 	time to any system.  Right, there is an implyed "mostly" there,  	and again - you are nitpicking.  N > when you get challenged you don't end up having to resort to personal attack  < 	Sigh.  You would like to devolve to that.  When you run out, 	of material you always seem to shift gears.   				Robm   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jul 2003 07:52:10 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)aN Subject: Re: IDC reports PC Market Share: Dell over HP by a nose; both pulling3 Message-ID: <D3WoEQOXM5jU@eisner.encompasserve.org>g   In article <bfmaj9$hlg$3@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes:  7 > Sort of, they bunged PC R&D into a central fund so ite4 > doesn't appear in the PC divisions P&L and in this9 > The PC division made an operating profit after R&D bungu4 > of 21 million down from 33 million in the previous
 > quarter.  B    R&D in a central fund sounds reasonable IFF all R&D goes there.F    In the meantime they've got to have some place to spend all the VMS    profits.p   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 15:18:59 +0100nO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>mN Subject: Re: IDC reports PC Market Share: Dell over HP by a nose; both pulling0 Message-ID: <bfopsj$ff8$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Rob Young wrote: > In article <bfmadq$hlg$2@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: >  >>Rob Young wrote: >  > @ >>Right so in the same period the bits of HP that you care about@ >>lost 472 million dollars despite bunging their R&D budget into< >>a central pot funded by printing and Sun lost 292 million. >> >  > C > 	Ah, and there's the rub Andrew.  Sun has Java and the associatedn? > 	Java revenue stream to prop it up.  Ah... okay, a joke.  Bute> > 	as Scott talks about growth and futures he declares Sun theF > 	second largest software house (not so, IBM is that owner).  Nothing > 	to prop Sun up. > 	s@ > 	Face it - 9 straight quarters of declining revenue highlights > 	a company in decline. >  >   / Odd, Sun's revenue last quarter was higher thano5 it was the previous quarter and the previous quarters . revenues were higher than the one before that.  3 Face it that isn't 9 straight quarters of declininge revenue.  . Ohh dear, you can't be relied on to hype Alpha$ You can't be relied on to hype IA-640 and now you can't be relied on to read a balance sheet.  + What can you be relied on to do right Rob ?a    0 As I said earlier nice try Rob but you have just0 chalked up another failure to add to a long list don't compound it.   Regardst Andrew Harrisonf   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jul 2003 11:35:37 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)sN Subject: Re: IDC reports PC Market Share: Dell over HP by a nose; both pulling3 Message-ID: <YpOVEN8XdE93@eisner.encompasserve.org>c   In article <bfopsj$ff8$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: > Rob Young wrote: >> In article <bfmadq$hlg$2@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes:o >> s >>>Rob Young wrote:, >> y >> nA >>>Right so in the same period the bits of HP that you care aboutyA >>>lost 472 million dollars despite bunging their R&D budget into = >>>a central pot funded by printing and Sun lost 292 million.r >>>t >> h >> sD >> 	Ah, and there's the rub Andrew.  Sun has Java and the associated@ >> 	Java revenue stream to prop it up.  Ah... okay, a joke.  But? >> 	as Scott talks about growth and futures he declares Sun thefG >> 	second largest software house (not so, IBM is that owner).  Nothingh >> 	to prop Sun up.s >> 	A >> 	Face it - 9 straight quarters of declining revenue highlightsn >> 	a company in decline.C >> s >> n > 1 > Odd, Sun's revenue last quarter was higher thann7 > it was the previous quarter and the previous quarters>0 > revenues were higher than the one before that. > 5 > Face it that isn't 9 straight quarters of decliningl
 > revenue. >   7 	You don't compare quarters that way.  Annually comparep6 	them.  For a computer company to say 4th quarter revs@ 	were slightly higher than 3rd quarter revs is good for a laugh.< 	No one answers the phone in Europe in the 3rd quarter, etc.   				Robl   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jul 2003 11:44:25 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) N Subject: Re: IDC reports PC Market Share: Dell over HP by a nose; both pulling3 Message-ID: <wrFREKDK6+26@eisner.encompasserve.org>v   In article <bfopsj$ff8$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: > 1 > Odd, Sun's revenue last quarter was higher thanr7 > it was the previous quarter and the previous quartersl0 > revenues were higher than the one before that.  B    Is that what all the noise was the other day about Sun having aA    bad quarter and it's stock dropping?  Higher than the previousnD    quarter?  Would you like to tell us which issue of Baron's proves    your point?   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 17:00:13 GMTs9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>pN Subject: Re: IDC reports PC Market Share: Dell over HP by a nose; both pulling0 Message-ID: <xgUTa.810$Dg4.327@news.cpqcorp.net>  I Rob, Andrew has tried this in the past.  Another favorite is that he willa? not go back *before* the company started it's dot com freefall.   L The entire enterprise server market right now is just trying to ride out theG current "downturn" (apparently the "recession" ended in November 2001). F Companies with some diversity, like HP, are better able to weather theL storm.  We'll emerge from this in pretty good shape when the economy returnsC to growth.  The stuctural cost issues around developing 3 different G architectures - Alpha/PA/IA64 will also go away as we converge on IA64. + We've already made most of that investment.e  K The question for Sun is how much of their problem is the economic downturn,uA and how much is a structural problem (like Sparc, competition forDJ Solaris/Sparc from Linux/Intel, and competetive problems with both IBM and> HP - and as always Microsoft) that they have yet to deal with.    8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:YpOVEN8XdE93@eisner.encompasserve.org...TH > In article <bfopsj$ff8$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK; Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes:l > > Rob Young wrote:K > >> In article <bfmadq$hlg$2@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUKi; Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes:f > >> > >>>Rob Young wrote:  > >> > >>C > >>>Right so in the same period the bits of HP that you care aboutvC > >>>lost 472 million dollars despite bunging their R&D budget intop? > >>>a central pot funded by printing and Sun lost 292 million.c > >>>  > >> > >>E > >> Ah, and there's the rub Andrew.  Sun has Java and the associatediA > >> Java revenue stream to prop it up.  Ah... okay, a joke.  But @ > >> as Scott talks about growth and futures he declares Sun theH > >> second largest software house (not so, IBM is that owner).  Nothing > >> to prop Sun up. > >>B > >> Face it - 9 straight quarters of declining revenue highlights > >> a company in decline. > >> > >> > > 3 > > Odd, Sun's revenue last quarter was higher thang9 > > it was the previous quarter and the previous quartersp2 > > revenues were higher than the one before that. > >-7 > > Face it that isn't 9 straight quarters of declining  > > revenue. > >- >88 > You don't compare quarters that way.  Annually compare7 > them.  For a computer company to say 4th quarter revs-A > were slightly higher than 3rd quarter revs is good for a laugh.m= > No one answers the phone in Europe in the 3rd quarter, etc.  >D > RobM >M   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jul 2003 12:13:21 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)oN Subject: Re: IDC reports PC Market Share: Dell over HP by a nose; both pulling3 Message-ID: <i3860ttwxDvS@eisner.encompasserve.org>   l In article <xgUTa.810$Dg4.327@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> writes:   > M > The question for Sun is how much of their problem is the economic downturn,dC > and how much is a structural problem (like Sparc, competition foriL > Solaris/Sparc from Linux/Intel, and competetive problems with both IBM and@ > HP - and as always Microsoft) that they have yet to deal with. >  	rB 	Structural.  Dell has decided not to continue with 8-ways.  They	D 	sold 400 last quarter.  It isn't worth the effort.  The application@ 	folks get "scale-up" and "scale-out" now.  Dell will sell a ton* 	of 1, 2 and 4-way.  As mentioned earlier:  < http://www.thestreet.com/_yahoo/tech/kcswanson/10102503.html  H "The cost of components didn't decline as fast as it did in the previousL quarter," said Sun chief Scott McNealy, explaining why gross margins fell in the June quarter.   O But he sought to evade a question about how Sun's margins are likely to fare in F the longer term, given the company's push into lower-margin hardware.   ; 	Scott acknowledges that is the future/present.  So Sun hasi; 	no choice but to get on that long decline in server marginB; 	curve.  They won't make up the decline, and Wall Street isa1 	rewarding them for their direction and strategy:C   Symbol 			Last      Trade  SUNW 			12:51pm   $3.90     > 	Server hardware is headed to a very brutal business indeed asB 	Dell will ratchet more and more efficiencies out of that segment.; 	Too bad Sun has too much of their revenue tied up in that..   				Rob,   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jul 2003 23:59:28 -0700' From: icerq4a@spray.se (David Svensson)i5 Subject: Re: IDC: HP ranks No. 1 in 2002 HPTC revenue/= Message-ID: <734da31c.0307232259.2a34d805@posting.google.com>t   Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<bfm842$gqn$2@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...( > David Svensson wrote:h > > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<bfh0jr$lsd$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...a > >  > >>Keith Parris wrote:I > >>! > >>>From HP World News, July 17:n > >>>n? > >>>"HP ranks No. 1 in 2002 high-performance computing revenueD > >>> S > >>>HP cited industry research firm IDC to claim it is the worldwide market leaderdS > >>>for High Performance Technical Computing (HPTC) in 2002. IDC's "Worldwide High N > >>>Performance Systems Technical Computing Census 2002" report shows that HPS > >>>commands 34 percent revenue share, more than a five percentage point lead overn
 > >>>IBM." > >>>m1 > >>>http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/030714/145265_1.html- > >> > >>E > >>Shame that the 3 big DARPA contracts for HPTC systems in the HPCSm? > >>program have gone in a pretty even split of ~50 million pert! > >>company to IBM, Sun and Cray.e > >  > > E > > I can understand that Sun and Cray are in need for help, but IBM?4 > B > Interesting Idea HP didn't get a DARPA award because they didn't > need it !w >  > Nice spin. >   A Yes. :) I was looking at the latest TOP500 supercomputer list andwB there were very few Sun and Cray machines there. On the other hand' there were lots of IBM and HP machines.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 15:12:50 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>d5 Subject: Re: IDC: HP ranks No. 1 in 2002 HPTC revenue 0 Message-ID: <bfoph3$fae$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   David Svensson wrote:- > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<bfm842$gqn$2@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...  >  >>David Svensson wrote:  >> >>>Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<bfh0jr$lsd$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>... >>>- >>>  >>>>Keith Parris wrote:- >>>>! >>>>>From HP World News, July 17:  >>>>? >>>>>"HP ranks No. 1 in 2002 high-performance computing revenueD >>>>>1S >>>>>HP cited industry research firm IDC to claim it is the worldwide market leader@S >>>>>for High Performance Technical Computing (HPTC) in 2002. IDC's "Worldwide HighhN >>>>>Performance Systems Technical Computing Census 2002" report shows that HPS >>>>>commands 34 percent revenue share, more than a five percentage point lead overh
 >>>>>IBM." >>>>> 1 >>>>>http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/030714/145265_1.htmln >>>> >>>>E >>>>Shame that the 3 big DARPA contracts for HPTC systems in the HPCS ? >>>>program have gone in a pretty even split of ~50 million perw! >>>>company to IBM, Sun and Cray.- >>>- >>>-D >>>I can understand that Sun and Cray are in need for help, but IBM? >>B >>Interesting Idea HP didn't get a DARPA award because they didn't >>need it !  >> >>Nice spin. >> >  > C > Yes. :) I was looking at the latest TOP500 supercomputer list and-D > there were very few Sun and Cray machines there. On the other hand) > there were lots of IBM and HP machines.-   It gets better.-  ? So now your contention is that DARPA have a remit which extendst@ to trying to balance out the top500 list entries on a per vendor8 basis by funding vendors that have a lower market share.  C This is almost like traditional socialist redistribution economics.@  A What a very ammusing theory I hope you didn't spend too much time5 thinking it up..   RegardsZ Andrew Harrisonr   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 14:58:31 +0100m7 From: "POWERS, John" <John.POWERS@reading.sema.slb.com>cP Subject: RE: Legal status of EVE source code ?, was: RE: Creating an EVE o	r TPUH Message-ID: <95544AF90752D211AC0300A0C9E01D32019FFA1C@reaes4.sema.co.uk>  F I suspect they have the legal status well sorted. I hope I am not bre= akingeD any rules by redistributing the following  11 lines from EVE$BUILD..   !a1 !                      COPYRIGHT =A9 1987,1992 BYuE !               DIGITAL EQUIPMENT CORPORATION, MAYNARD, MASSACHUSETTS// !                           ALL RIGHTS RESERVEDt ! F ! THIS SOFTWARE IS FURNISHED UNDER A LICENSE AND MAY BE USED AND COPI= ED@ ! ONLY IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE TERMS OF SUCH LICENSE AND WITH THEF ! INCLUSION OF THE ABOVE COPYRIGHT NOTICE.  THIS SOFTWARE OR ANY OTHE= RmF ! COPIES THEREOF MAY NOT BE PROVIDED OR OTHERWISE MADE AVAILABLE TO A= NYD ! OTHER PERSON.  NO TITLE TO AND OWNERSHIP OF THE SOFTWARE IS HEREBY ! TRANSFERRED.  @ Sounds like high-class legalese to me. I know 'Digital EquipmentA Corporation' know longer exist, but I bet they made sure all thisE; copyright stuff got transferred to the new owners properly!m   - John     -----Original Message-----4 =46rom: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP5 [mailto:clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP]r Sent: 24 July 2003 12:23 To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com F Subject: Legal status of EVE source code ?, was: RE: Creating an EVE = or TPUn    F In article <95544AF90752D211AC0300A0C9E01D32019FFA1A@reaes4.sema.co.u= k>,e9 "POWERS, John" <John.POWERS@reading.sema.slb.com> writes:, > The command is >=20( > EDIT /TPU/NODISPLAY/NOINITIALIZATION -( >      /COMMAND=3DSYS$EXAMPLES:EVE$BUILD >=20  F I have been curious for a while about the actual legal status of the = EVEe source code.  F For example, if a hobbyist in the future creates an implementation of=  TPUF on Linux that is an accurate enough implementation to run EVE, would = peopleF actually be allowed to take the EVE source code and run it under Linu= x ?    Simon.   --=20oB Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP      = =202F VMS advocate: One who makes a Mac advocate look like a beginner at ad= vocacy.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 16:50:09 GMTi" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORGP Subject: RE: Legal status of EVE source code ?, was: RE: Creating an EVE o	r TPU0 Message-ID: <00A2356A.9918C5A7@SendSpamHere.ORG>   In article <95544AF90752D211AC0300A0C9E01D32019FFA1C@reaes4.sema.co.uk>, "POWERS, John" <John.POWERS@reading.sema.slb.com> writes:G >I suspect they have the legal status well sorted. I hope I am not bre=s >akingE >any rules by redistributing the following  11 lines from EVE$BUILD..t >  >!2 >!                      COPYRIGHT =A9 1987,1992 BYF >!               DIGITAL EQUIPMENT CORPORATION, MAYNARD, MASSACHUSETTS0 >!                           ALL RIGHTS RESERVED >!G >! THIS SOFTWARE IS FURNISHED UNDER A LICENSE AND MAY BE USED AND COPI=y >EDtA >! ONLY IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE TERMS OF SUCH LICENSE AND WITH THE G >! INCLUSION OF THE ABOVE COPYRIGHT NOTICE.  THIS SOFTWARE OR ANY OTHE=d >RG >! COPIES THEREOF MAY NOT BE PROVIDED OR OTHERWISE MADE AVAILABLE TO A=  >NY:E >! OTHER PERSON.  NO TITLE TO AND OWNERSHIP OF THE SOFTWARE IS HEREBY- >! TRANSFERRED.  >aA >Sounds like high-class legalese to me. I know 'Digital EquipmentoB >Corporation' know longer exist, but I bet they made sure all this< >copyright stuff got transferred to the new owners properly!    E When I'd reported a blatant rip-off (1700+ lines of code verbatim) ofeE DEC's own code used in a 3rd party product competing directly against F DEC and DEC's own hardware sales, DEC did SQUAT!  DEC's legal bellhopsF didn't care then and I'd doubt it very much that the legal bellhops ofE the present holder of the intellectual property rights care that muchn either.h  F The only legal thing that HP is worried about is offending the Lord ofF Redmond lest he exercise his monopolistic equivalent of a shit hemorr- hage on HP's PeeCee sales.   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMy            n5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" S   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jul 2003 06:22:55 -0500B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)K Subject: Legal status of EVE source code ?, was: RE: Creating an EVE or TPUt3 Message-ID: <LpUWCVzmE7H6@eisner.encompasserve.org>5   In article <95544AF90752D211AC0300A0C9E01D32019FFA1A@reaes4.sema.co.uk>, "POWERS, John" <John.POWERS@reading.sema.slb.com> writes: > The command is > ( > EDIT /TPU/NODISPLAY/NOINITIALIZATION -& >      /COMMAND=SYS$EXAMPLES:EVE$BUILD >   H I have been curious for a while about the actual legal status of the EVE source code.  I For example, if a hobbyist in the future creates an implementation of TPUIK on Linux that is an accurate enough implementation to run EVE, would people H actually be allowed to take the EVE source code and run it under Linux ?   Simon.   -- aB Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       L VMS advocate: One who makes a Mac advocate look like a beginner at advocacy.   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jul 2003 07:59:23 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)cO Subject: Re: Legal status of EVE source code ?, was: RE: Creating an EVE or TPUg3 Message-ID: <j1bJhFCymVeP@eisner.encompasserve.org>   x In article <LpUWCVzmE7H6@eisner.encompasserve.org>, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) writes: > K > For example, if a hobbyist in the future creates an implementation of TPU M > on Linux that is an accurate enough implementation to run EVE, would people J > actually be allowed to take the EVE source code and run it under Linux ?  >    What if a/Soft comes up with a hobbyist license for nu/TPU?   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jul 2003 23:21:20 -07001 From: usenet_vms@lehrerfamily.com (Joshua Lehrer) + Subject: Re: missing multiple blocking ASTsR= Message-ID: <477e0934.0307232221.5359227b@posting.google.com>d  w filip.de.block@proximus.net (Filip De Block) wrote in message news:<8366afbe.0307222322.13722980@posting.google.com>...n > C > The purpose of this exercise is to have 100% indentical processesaG > (clusterwide) that can distribute a given number of 'resources' amongaG > themselves, regardless of te number of processes. Still a long way tos > go ...  - I had this exact same task about a year back.o  6 My solution was complex, but went something like this:  E You need a gateway lock and a resource lock.  Consumers only get nullr: locks on the resource, and exclusive locks on the gateway.  A The single exclusive lock controls who is next in line.  WheneveriF someone wants to use the resource, they take out the exclusive gatewayC lock.  When they get it, use the lock manager to determine how manyoD people have null locks on the resource.  If there are too many, thenB hibernate.  If there aren't, get the null lock on the resource and* release the exclusive lock on the gateway.  F Whenever anyone is done with the resource, they attempt to take out anC exclusive lock on the gateway, no-queue.  If they happen to get it,bC just release it.  The person who was waiting having had the gatewaysF lock gets their blocking ast called and wakes up from hibernation.  It= can then check the lock information, get the null lock on thed8 resource, and release the exclusive lock on the gateway.  E Of course, there are minor issues that you need to deal with wrt racebF conditions, crashing processes, etc... But this was the general idea. @ Wrap it all up in a nice C++ class, and you've got a very useful cluster-wide gate!   -joshua lehrer factset research systems   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 11:21:13 GMTa From: "ups" <ups@hotovice.com> Subject: Mutlihomed VMS issuee. Message-ID: <JiPTa.788$604.5@news.cpqcorp.net>   Hi,r  J I have written a socket application which runs on a multihomed VMS system.K The application always uses the first network interface that was configuredaG using TCP/IP. What should I do to make the applcation to use the secondn network interface?  K Setting the default gateway (tcpip set route/default/gateway=2nd_ip) solvesnG the problem. But I have a small doubt. Will this break other networkinge functionalities?   Regards,   ------------------------------   Date: 24 Jul 03 07:03:16 PST From: mckinneyj@cpva.saic.comt! Subject: Re: Mutlihomed VMS issuei( Message-ID: <XqBYVPjhkgxQ@cpva.saic.com>  . In article <JiPTa.788$604.5@news.cpqcorp.net>,!  "ups" <ups@hotovice.com> writes:o > Hi,  > L > I have written a socket application which runs on a multihomed VMS system.M > The application always uses the first network interface that was configurediI > using TCP/IP. What should I do to make the applcation to use the second  > network interface? > M > Setting the default gateway (tcpip set route/default/gateway=2nd_ip) solves I > the problem. But I have a small doubt. Will this break other networkings > functionalities? > 
 > Regards, >  >   ? No need to alter the default gateway - to answer your question,.@ other "networking" may be affected (cease to function) depending> upon your local topology (is multihomed equivalent to multiple LANs?).   C In your code, you can set the socket option SO_DONTROUTE and bind() B the socket to your "2nd_ip" prior to making the connect() to force" traffic out this second interface.   -- 2 - Jim4   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 15:28:36 GMTC" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG! Subject: Re: Mutlihomed VMS issuet0 Message-ID: <00A2355F.34D0556B@SendSpamHere.ORG>  O In article <JiPTa.788$604.5@news.cpqcorp.net>, "ups" <ups@hotovice.com> writes:4 >Hi, >3K >I have written a socket application which runs on a multihomed VMS system.uL >The application always uses the first network interface that was configuredH >using TCP/IP. What should I do to make the applcation to use the second >network interface?S >cL >Setting the default gateway (tcpip set route/default/gateway=2nd_ip) solvesH >the problem. But I have a small doubt. Will this break other networking >functionalities?n >m	 >Regards,  >p >   I Specify the IP address of the other interface in sin_addr when you bind()  the socket.    --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMo            C5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" B   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 06:04:07 +0200o& From: "maurix" <mizioduck@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: OpenVms Backup - Message-ID: <bfnlps$mhp$1@e3k.asi.ansaldo.it>v  	 Hi Colin.   J "Colin Butcher" <colin_DOT.butcher_AT@xdelta_DOT.co_DOT.uk> ha scritto nel? messaggio news:ZatTa.925$_t7.9862371@news-text.cableinet.net...l/ > Oops - didn't read carefully enough (again!).e >fF > Looks like you are trying to build a two disc system from a two disc system.@ >>? > So restore the two savesets separately to DKA300: and DKA100:  >oH > $$$ BACKUP <tape><dka300_saveset_name>/SAVE/IMAGE/NOALIAS DKA300:/INIT > H > $$$ BACKUP <tape><dka100_saveset_name>/SAVE/IMAGE/NOALIAS DKA100:/INIT >eK > You must use the correct saveset name each time - wildcard (*) isn't goodc	 > enough.e >u    G I used 2 different tapes, 1 for every disk. Than I've only 1 saveset on  tape.n     >m >iC > -----------------------------------------------------------------f > Hope this helps, Colin.o+ > colin DOT butcher AT xdelta DOT co DOT uktJ > Systems Archaeologist - Investigation & troubleshooting of older systems and  > networks.e >w >m  L Every way, if I restore both disks, should I use the commads in the previous post  ?p     -- md'a :-)l mizioduck@hotmail.comc (uck=a)    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 17:59:46 +0200r$ From: Michael Unger <unger@decus.de>6 Subject: OpenVMS homepage and 'sales.liveperson.net' ?9 Message-ID: <bfp0sg$gdprs$1@ID-152801.news.uni-berlin.de>e  G I just noticed this code snippet on the OpenVMS homepage source (at thet
 very bottom):t  X > <!-- BEGIN HumanTag Monitor. DO NOT MOVE! MUST BE PLACED JUST BEFORE THE /BODY TAG -->" > <!-- BEGIN HumanTag time out -->  > <script language="javascript"> > var lpInviteTimeout=120; > </script>s  > <!-- End HumanTag time out -->  > <script language="javascript"> > var lpPosY = 100;a > var lpPosX = 100;t > </script>9 > <script language='javascript' src='http://sales.liveperson.net/hc/27889365/x.js?cmd=file&file=chatScript3&site=27889365&imageUrl=http://www.hp.com/products1/servers/liveperson/proactive/'> "@                                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  _ > </script><!-- END HumanTag Monitor. DO NOT MOVE! MUST BE PLACED JUST BEFORE THE /BODY TAG -->  >   7 What about that "sales company" named "liveperson.net"?  What about that "chatScript3"?C Why doesn't HP tell the visitors of that page they are "monitored"?.  G Really strange. (JavaScript turned off for security reasons of course!)r   Michaels   -- d  @ Please do *not* send "Security Patch Notifications" or "SecurityA Updates"; this system isn't running a Micro$oft operating system.r= And don't annoy me <mailto:postmaster@[127.0.0.1]> please ;-)>   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jul 2003 07:45:19 -0500 From: briggs@encompasserve.org+ Subject: Re: Packed decimal arithmetic in C 3 Message-ID: <sa9bVSfk7yGO@eisner.encompasserve.org>p  V In article <3F1EE1FB.FE8CBFC4@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes: > John Reagan wrote:J >> If they were only that smart...  I've seen dozens of examples of peopleJ >> using binary floating to track currency (and each one is broken).  I'veH >> even seen them in languages that provided scaled integers like BASIC. > M > Interesting since there are often standards on exactly how many decimals tosH > use when specifying currency and conversion factors, as in the case ofN > international SWIFT transactions. With floating point, you can't specify howC > many decimals to consider during arithmetic, only during display.i  B Ahhh.  The point being that floating point considers _more_ digitsA in some cases than the standards specify and thus gets the answer  "wrong" for that reason?   Interesting.  > So if you were going to use floating point correctly in such aE case, one appropriate approach would be to use it to implement scaledlA integers (make sure your integers fit into the mantissa, round too> nearest integer after multiplication or division and track the& decimal scale factor by hand).  Right?  C I once used double precision floating point in exactly that manner. F It made sense since I had compiler and hardware support for D floatingA arithmetic but no compiler or hardware support for 64 bit integerg= arithmetic.  32 bit integers were too small, but the mantissa ; on 64 bit floats was big enough for my purposes.  If I wererE re-implementing today, I'd be using 64 bit native integer arithmetic.    	John Briggs   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 07:22:51 -0700<# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> + Subject: RE: Packed decimal arithmetic in CI9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKEBCHKAA.tom@kednos.com>,   >-----Original Message-----)A >From: briggs@encompasserve.org [mailto:briggs@encompasserve.org]S& >Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 5:45 AM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com, >Subject: Re: Packed decimal arithmetic in C >a >s3 >In article <3F1EE1FB.FE8CBFC4@istop.com>, JF Mezeim$ ><jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes: >> John Reagan wrote:EK >>> If they were only that smart...  I've seen dozens of examples of peopleeK >>> using binary floating to track currency (and each one is broken).  I'vemI >>> even seen them in languages that provided scaled integers like BASIC.s >>B >> Interesting since there are often standards on exactly how many >decimals toI >> use when specifying currency and conversion factors, as in the case oftC >> international SWIFT transactions. With floating point, you can't: >specify howD >> many decimals to consider during arithmetic, only during display. > C >Ahhh.  The point being that floating point considers _more_ digitsaB >in some cases than the standards specify and thus gets the answer >"wrong" for that reason?f  H No the point being that it doesn't consider digits, it deals in bits and thererF is not an isomorphism between the two bounded spaces, i.e. no closure.  K If you are going to do decimal arithmetic, don't use C, use Cobol (ugh!) orfG PL/I which has native support for scaled fixed decimal up to 31 digits.    >r
 >Interesting.  >a? >So if you were going to use floating point correctly in such adF >case, one appropriate approach would be to use it to implement scaledB >integers (make sure your integers fit into the mantissa, round to? >nearest integer after multiplication or division and track thel' >decimal scale factor by hand).  Right?s >hD >I once used double precision floating point in exactly that manner.G >It made sense since I had compiler and hardware support for D floating-B >arithmetic but no compiler or hardware support for 64 bit integer> >arithmetic.  32 bit integers were too small, but the mantissa< >on 64 bit floats was big enough for my purposes.  If I wereF >re-implementing today, I'd be using 64 bit native integer arithmetic. >n
 >	John Briggs. >> >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.l; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).lA >Version: 6.0.502 / Virus Database: 300 - Release Date: 7/18/2003e >b --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.502 / Virus Database: 300 - Release Date: 7/18/2003   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jul 2003 09:57:00 -0500 From: briggs@encompasserve.org+ Subject: RE: Packed decimal arithmetic in Ce3 Message-ID: <ireA06gnkSyf@eisner.encompasserve.org>   _ In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKEBCHKAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:t >  >  >>-----Original Message-----B >>From: briggs@encompasserve.org [mailto:briggs@encompasserve.org]' >>Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 5:45 AMs >>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Como- >>Subject: Re: Packed decimal arithmetic in Cl >> >>4 >>In article <3F1EE1FB.FE8CBFC4@istop.com>, JF Mezei% >><jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes:e >>> John Reagan wrote:L >>>> If they were only that smart...  I've seen dozens of examples of peopleL >>>> using binary floating to track currency (and each one is broken).  I'veJ >>>> even seen them in languages that provided scaled integers like BASIC. >>>tC >>> Interesting since there are often standards on exactly how manyr
 >>decimals toiJ >>> use when specifying currency and conversion factors, as in the case ofD >>> international SWIFT transactions. With floating point, you can't
 >>specify how E >>> many decimals to consider during arithmetic, only during display.m >>D >>Ahhh.  The point being that floating point considers _more_ digitsC >>in some cases than the standards specify and thus gets the answerv >>"wrong" for that reason? > J > No the point being that it doesn't consider digits, it deals in bits and > therewH > is not an isomorphism between the two bounded spaces, i.e. no closure.  A You'll have to get a whole lot more specific than that before yous can make your case.r  > Sure, scaled decimals implemented with integer-valued floating? point is not closed under addition, subtraction, multiplicationo or division.  * But as long as you don't overflow past the< continuous range of integers that can be represented exactly; in floating point, it is closed under addition, subtractionr6 and multiplication.  Neither packed decimal nor scaled7 decimal using floating point are closed under division.a  7 So there's no case to be made for a lack of isomorphism  based on a lack of closure.D  : If you want to make a case for a lack of isomorphism basedD on the inconsistency in round off error in division handling between; packed decimal and scaled decimal using floating point then, you should say so.    > Yes, everybody and his brother knows that you can't just stick< dollars and decimal fractions into a floating point variable1 and go.  $1.01 is a repeating fraction in binary.D  A But what you and most of the other ignorant dweebs out there seemc? not to be able to fathom is that you _CAN_ stick pennies into an@ floating point variable and get perfectly accurate computations.  C I'm sure you're not really an ignorant dweeb.  Please don't take mea for one.   	John Briggs   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 08:32:50 -0700u# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>l+ Subject: RE: Packed decimal arithmetic in CA9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKEBGHKAA.tom@kednos.com>t   >-----Original Message-----,A >From: briggs@encompasserve.org [mailto:briggs@encompasserve.org]r& >Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 7:57 AM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com, >Subject: RE: Packed decimal arithmetic in C >  >-? >In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKEBCHKAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tomy! >Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:r >> >> >>>-----Original Message-----tC >>>From: briggs@encompasserve.org [mailto:briggs@encompasserve.org]i( >>>Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 5:45 AM >>>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com. >>>Subject: Re: Packed decimal arithmetic in C >>>l >>>n5 >>>In article <3F1EE1FB.FE8CBFC4@istop.com>, JF Mezein& >>><jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes: >>>> John Reagan wrote:nC >>>>> If they were only that smart...  I've seen dozens of examplesR
 >of people> >>>>> using binary floating to track currency (and each one is >broken).  I've K >>>>> even seen them in languages that provided scaled integers like BASIC.2 >>>>D >>>> Interesting since there are often standards on exactly how many >>>decimals toK >>>> use when specifying currency and conversion factors, as in the case of9E >>>> international SWIFT transactions. With floating point, you can'ts >>>specify howF >>>> many decimals to consider during arithmetic, only during display. >>> E >>>Ahhh.  The point being that floating point considers _more_ digitsnD >>>in some cases than the standards specify and thus gets the answer >>>"wrong" for that reason?g >>K >> No the point being that it doesn't consider digits, it deals in bits and  >> thereI >> is not an isomorphism between the two bounded spaces, i.e. no closure.r >pB >You'll have to get a whole lot more specific than that before you >can make your case. >u? >Sure, scaled decimals implemented with integer-valued floatinga@ >point is not closed under addition, subtraction, multiplication
 >or division.u  J Firstly, the dweeb comments are gratuitous.  Secondly, what do you mean byL integer-valued floating point?  If you are referring to a float in the senseI of, say, Fortran, then you can approximate the value of a decimal, but in K general, not completely represent it.  I refer to this as a float binary toeD distinguish it from float decimal, both supported data types in PL/I > + >But as long as you don't overflow past thes= >continuous range of integers that can be represented exactlym< >in floating point, it is closed under addition, subtraction7 >and multiplication.  Neither packed decimal nor scalede8 >decimal using floating point are closed under division. > 8 >So there's no case to be made for a lack of isomorphism >based on a lack of closure. > ; >If you want to make a case for a lack of isomorphism basedaE >on the inconsistency in round off error in division handling betweenS< >packed decimal and scaled decimal using floating point then >you should say so.a  ' Well, yes, that is certainly the point.w  A Not sure what you mean by "scaled decimal in flaoting point" thisr; is not a data type in any language with which I am familiars  E scaled decimal is a bonafide data type in PL/I and it is not a float.s   >t >l? >Yes, everybody and his brother knows that you can't just stickw= >dollars and decimal fractions into a floating point variableq2 >and go.  $1.01 is a repeating fraction in binary. >uB >But what you and most of the other ignorant dweebs out there seem@ >not to be able to fathom is that you _CAN_ stick pennies into aA >floating point variable and get perfectly accurate computations.@ >rD >I'm sure you're not really an ignorant dweeb.  Please don't take me	 >for one.e >o
 >	John Briggss >- >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.,; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). A >Version: 6.0.502 / Virus Database: 300 - Release Date: 7/18/2003e >l --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.502 / Virus Database: 300 - Release Date: 7/18/2003   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jul 2003 10:50:49 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)e+ Subject: RE: Packed decimal arithmetic in Co3 Message-ID: <pcBHLqJOgGUA@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  _ In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKEBGHKAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:t >  >  >>-----Original Message-----B >>From: briggs@encompasserve.org [mailto:briggs@encompasserve.org]' >>Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 7:57 AMo >>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comn- >>Subject: RE: Packed decimal arithmetic in CM  < >>If you want to make a case for a lack of isomorphism basedF >>on the inconsistency in round off error in division handling between= >>packed decimal and scaled decimal using floating point thenj >>you should say so. > ) > Well, yes, that is certainly the point.d > C > Not sure what you mean by "scaled decimal in flaoting point" thisI= > is not a data type in any language with which I am familiar  > G > scaled decimal is a bonafide data type in PL/I and it is not a float.   RF   Scaled decimal is a bonafide data type in Ada and it is not a float.     C is not datatype-intensive.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 15:51:05 GMTn# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>o+ Subject: Re: Packed decimal arithmetic in C,H Message-ID: <JfTTa.30079$vz%.13428@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  6 "Paul Sture" <p_sture@elias.decus.ch> wrote in message# news:$PdVxoHUiy4G@elias.decus.ch...f@ > In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIOEOFHJAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom  Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes: > >> > >r > >>-----Original Message-----. > >>From: Hoff Hoffman [mailto:hoff@hp.nospam]( > >>Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 3:27 PM > >>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Come/ > >>Subject: RE: Packed decimal arithmetic in Ce > >> > >>5 > >>From: James Gessling [mailto:jgessling@yahoo.com]tC > >>:Anyone know of library functions (or anything) callable from Cr7 > >>:that can handle this [packed decimal format math]?o > >>A > >>  Packed decimal math is slow in general, and conversions aren requiredB > >>  for most math operations; OpenVMS performs math using native
 datatypes.@ > >>  Convert to a native integer format, and do the math.  Then
 convert back. F > >>  Use lib$cvt_dx_dx, or such, with the packed-decimal string type. > >>B > >>  You could also call a COBOL or PL/I routine, languages which have, > >>  integrated support for packed decimal. > >>E > >>  If it were my code, I'd move it out of packed decimal entirely.1 > >.A > > Sometimes you can't do that.  Try telling a bank or insurancee company to useB > > float binary instead of scaled fixed decimal or float decimal.	 (and BTW,uA > > that is why financial institutions stick with PL/I and Cobol)o > >i > D > You don't need to reach to the figures a bank or insurance company uses. D > A signed 32-bit integer including pennies/cents cannot cope with a	 figure ofa
 > 30 million.c >dB > IIRC, VAC COBOL had quadword integers by 1995 (maybe before, but that was; > the first time I came across them). Before that, currencye calculationsC > involving 5 significant figures plues large numbers coule only bep$ > done accurately in packed decimal. >nC > Accounts have to be accurate to the penny/cent, and this is wheret packed- > decimal has ruled the roost for many years.N >yC > Floating point cannot get near, or should we be talking Enron ands Worldcom > here?e >oC > > Even though they aren't in HW on Alpha they are implemented forv
 PL/I using > > very- > > efficient algorithms, nines and excess 3.d    E Floating point errors (differences) once made the difference of about F $50,000 in a deal (about $300MM) I was involved in, due to differences1 in intermediate results which propagated forward.e  @ So when using floating point, one has to consider the real-worldF implications - do you write a cheque for $300,050,000 or $300,000,000?A A wrong decision in that case is enough to get one or more peoplem fired.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 17:22:08 GMT & From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>+ Subject: Re: Packed decimal arithmetic in Ca0 Message-ID: <4BUTa.817$wk4.472@news.cpqcorp.net>   Tom Linden wrote:e   Secondly, what do you mean by7N > integer-valued floating point?  If you are referring to a float in the senseK > of, say, Fortran, then you can approximate the value of a decimal, but innM > general, not completely represent it.  I refer to this as a float binary toaF > distinguish it from float decimal, both supported data types in PL/I  F Not to speak directly for John, but I often tell people that they can F use H_ or X_floating for currency if they track the smallest currency H amount.  (ie, pennies here in the US).  Given that the X_float mantissa E has 33 decimal digits of precision, it gives you even more room than  K using 64-bit integers which only has around 20 decimal digits of precision.P  H Now if you care about tenths of a penny, or whatever, you need to track 2 those.  You can still use H/X_floating to do that.   -- e John Reagane' Compaq Pascal/{A|I}MACRO Project Leader/ Hewlett-Packard Company4   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 08:10:32 -0400 5 From: "Brad McCusker" <brad.mccuskerNosp@Mcompaq.com> L Subject: Re: Questions regarding OVMS 7.3-1 and Pathworks v6.0 compatibility/ Message-ID: <vhvj5ukecqf5ea@corp.supernews.com>e  5 "Rusty Ferrell" <rferrell@smcwv.com> wrote in messageg7 news:9b72a38f.0307230709.288de306@posting.google.com... > > Hello all! Looking for some info from the VMS experts again.C > Existing system is an Alpha Server 2100 running OVMS v7.1 and has.B > Pathworks v6.0 installed. The new system is a DS10L Alpha ServerH > running OVMS v7.3-1. I have installed the same Pathworks software thatG > the existing system uses, but I get many errors in the PWRK$LOG filesmB > pretty much indicating "no client will be connected over <insert > protocol here>".  J Well, that is from the monitor log file, and, I don't think that is of anyJ interest (8 years in PW engineering, and, I don't think I ever looked at aI "monitor" log file! Maybe I'm wrong and there is something useful there.)eH I'd be more interested in what happens when you actually try to connect.I Some obvious starting points are things like your transports - if you areeK using TCP/IP, is PWIP driver started (TCP/IP config will let you start it)?r  4 >I read in a FAQ on HP's site that Pathworks v6.1 is2 > the minimum level required for o/s version 7.3-1   That is correct.   >so I'm now thinking; > that I may HAVE to upgrade Pathworks & Pathworks Clients.D  L If you want a supported configuration yes.  If you want one that runs, maybe not.   >sG > My questions are based around this compatibility issue. Regarding thetH > client software - we a several old '386 and '486 PC's that are used toH > get data from instruments, bar code readers, etc. They use a Pathworks= > DOS client. If I have to upgrade Pathworks client software,   F Whoa, whoa, whoa... A second ago you mentioned upgrading the PATHWORKSI server.  Why are you talking about upgrading the client now?  Oh, I bet I L know - you think there is a direct relationship between PATHWORKS client andL server.  Well, that is a common misconception.  Fo what its worth, you don'tG even need PATHWORKS client to share files between a PC and a VMS server L running PATHWORKS server.  As long as the PC has a transport stack in commonH with the VMS PATHWORKS server, you are in business.  Where many PCs needH PATHWORKS client is when they are trying to use DECnet as the transport.I The age of your clients suggest this might be the case.  But, regardless,kJ there is no reason why an older, PATHWORKS for DOS client software can notE work with the newest, latest and greates PATHWORKS or Advanced Serverd	 versions.H   >will I C > loose the DOS client? And if not, can I assume that the "new" DOS09 > client will run in the same environment (386/486 PC's)?cG There is no "new" DOS client, but, then again, you don't need one.  TheEG "new" PATHWORKS client is PATHWORKS 32 V7.3 and it provides support form
 Windows 2003.u   > A > Since I am still "wet behind the ears" at this VMS "stuff", caneD > someone look at the information from th elog file below and see ifB > what they read is consistent with the OVMS7.3-1 / Pathworks v6.0G > compatibility issue or have I done something incorrectly to cause the 
 > problem? > D Like I said, describe the problem better.  Look in log files such asJ PWRK$LMSRV*.LOG which is the primary file server log file.  PWRK$KNBDAEMONK log file for TCP/IP or NETBIOS*.LOG for DECnet.  Check out licensing - haveWL you got a license loaded?  How about your clients ability to connect to thisH new server?  Can they ping its address?  Can they ping its NETBIOS name?J Wide are network?  If so, how are the clients resolving the NETBIOS names?   Good luck...  
 Brad McCuskero OpenVMS Engineering  Hewlett-Packard Companya
 Nashua NH USAi   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 10:15:33 -0400O$ From: "PEN" <paul.nuneznosp@mhp.com>L Subject: Re: Questions regarding OVMS 7.3-1 and Pathworks v6.0 compatibility, Message-ID: <bfopm7$lgk$1@hplms2.hpl.hp.com>   Hi,X  F Just want to clarify one statement made by Brad in the previous reply:  J >> The "new" PATHWORKS client is PATHWORKS 32 V7.3 and it provides support fora >> Windows 2003.  I PATHWORKS 32 v7.3 provides support for Windows XP (Pro and Home) systems, B not Windows 2003 Server systems.  The SPD is available on line at:  :         http://h18000.www1.hp.com/info/SP5633/SP5633PF.PDF  L Last I heard, however,  was that PATHWORKS 32 product management had decidedE to qualify PATHWORKS 32 on Windows 2003 Server (which specific serverxL version(s) is unknown to me; of course, there is no Windows 2003 workstationL version), but you should not consider my statement as any form of commitment3 by anyone within HP to do anything at anytime :)....    
 Paul Nunez HP Services2   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 08:25:29 +0200 3 From: "Rudolf Wingert c/o WAT017" <win@fom.fgan.de>h, Subject: Re: Sun Micro Profit, Revenues Fall3 Message-ID: <000001c351ac$612252d0$114614ac@wat017>s   Hello,  D how do Sun get top? Here in Germany they do sell two servers fort heH price of one. What do you do, if you have to buy a Sun? Yes you will buyD two (the same price). In case of this Sun will become the top serverE seller and the customers a lot of Suns just for fun, not real needed.t   Best regards Rudolf Wingerte   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jul 2003 00:28:25 -0700' From: icerq4a@spray.se (David Svensson) , Subject: Re: Sun Micro Profit, Revenues Fall= Message-ID: <734da31c.0307232328.4ef40c64@posting.google.com>R   Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<bfma5a$hlg$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...  > Mark Buda wrote:O > > "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> ? > > wrote in message news:bfivq7$cjv$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com...A > >  > >>Mark Buda wrote: > >>( > >>>"Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" > >>+ > > <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>g > > @ > >>>wrote in message news:bfh172$m94$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com... > >>>x > >>>t0 > >>>>UNIX number one                        NOT0 > >>>>PC business returning to profitability NOT0 > >>>>Ditto Enterprise Division              NOT0 > >>>>Merger complete                        NOT0 > >>>>Its good to be second                  NOT > >>>w > >>>a/ > >>>It's good to own Sun stock             NOTi7 > >>>Andrew never stretches his nose or the truth   NOTb > >>>  > >>) > >>So which of my points was incorrect ?t > >>> > >>HP is not the number one UNIX vendor despite their claims.B > >>The PC division has not turned around, R&D costs for PC's have/ > >>simply been moved into another cost bucket.o > >>Ditto Enterprise systems.m; > >>The merger isn't complete it will only be complete whenT9 > >>all the product lines have merged and that is nowherea > >>near being the case.8 > >>And its never good to be second when you were first. > >> > >>These are all facts. > >>< > >>But I guess we will never know what you think about themA > >>since you made the mistake of attacking the messenger and notD > >>the message. > >  > > N > > Just the facts Andrew.  You and I can pick firsts with many companies.  It> > > is obvious that SUN is in trouble according to the articleD > > http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/030722/tech_sunmicrosystems_earns_5.html > >  > = > So why not address my points instead of trying to FUD Sun ?l >  > O > > Another article said "Its proprietary equipment based on the Unix operating M > > system now must compete with rival machines that run less-expensive chipsgI > > and software."   I thought SUN used industry standard hardware... :-)  > >  > > SUN IS IN TROUBLE... > > L > > For the year, Sun lost $2.38 billion, or 75 cents per share, on sales ofK > > $11.43 billion. Last year, it lost $587 million, or 18 cents per share.t > >  > > > If you don't know what a non cash related charge is then you= > shouldn't be posting your apparent analysis of our results.l > B > Sun lost 2.38 billion last year but that includes a 2.13 billionC > dollar write down because the book value of companies Sun aquired  > has gone down. > ? > So Sun in fact lost 292 million this year lower than our lastg
 > years loss.o > > > And just for laughs the PC and Enterprise Systems businesses0 > within HP lost 472 million in the same period. > : > HP's PC and Enterprise Systems businesses are in trouble5 > in particular the Enterprise Systems Business whichu9 > is the unit that competes diectly with Sun, in the sameb5 > period it lost 371 million and this is based on the-C > numbers HP reported for the last 2 quarters which moved R&D costs.A > out of PC's and Enteprise Systems so that the Printing business ; > could subsidise them without appearing to do so directly.d > < > Ohh dear ooh dear, ohh dear how does it feal when your own" > argument comes back to bite you.  D The trouble for Sun is that they don't have a cash cow currently. HPD is a larger company and can afford to loose in several years in thisF business. Almost all tech companies loose money in some areas but theyB still got some cash cow that they can rely on. Sun does not have a@ cash cow and does not seem to get one either in the near future.  B HP is rather cool printer company selling lots of "strange" thingsC such as OpenVMS and NonStop, while Sun is just a company that sells E another UNIX with currently slow CPUs and have trouble with competinge x86 servers.   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jul 2003 00:25:33 -0700. From: mistdragon@zdnetonebox.com (mist dragon), Subject: Re: Sun Micro Profit, Revenues Fall= Message-ID: <7500353b.0307232325.7a8c9a6b@posting.google.com>a  L > I wonder if Sun will be able to react to such "proprietary" accusations. IN > think that in fairness, HP is in the same boat too, with its own proprietary > expensive hardware.h    ? It looks to me that Sun is in same trouble as so many companieshF before. The only thing that differs is that Sun equipment has achievedA so large user base that it all came later on them than to others.e  F Sun's boxes have always been very nice to use and the service has been@ good, but they are also known to be slow and expensive on modernE standards and they never made a high-end servers (yes, even the largetB SMP boxes are still rather slow compared their Intel competitors).  E Compaq gave up Alpha because it could not afford to keep in pace with = Intel and same could happen to Sparc. Imho Sun was taking thea= traditional approach where Intel is placed to low end and ownoE technologies on the high end. This approach is taken also by the IBM,pA but the problem is that Sun has no real high-end the way IBM has.s  A Sun started to sell intel servers, but if you looked at the specseE those were well underpowered compared to other servers in the market. D Now just few months ago they came out with new Linux servers running@ RH and by the specs they were cheaper than Dells! (amusing thing9 though, because they are made in same factory in Taiwan).o  D Something has obviously happened. It looks like Sun wants more shareF of Linux, even with the expense of its boxes. This approach could takeD it the same way SGI went, first declaring to going to Intel and whenD it was delayed, back to Mips and back to Intel and it almost crashed the whole company.  3 OTOH, what are the chances to Sun ? Bad situation.     M    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 06:23:57 -0400e* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>, Subject: Re: Sun Micro Profit, Revenues Fall2 Message-ID: <OzydnU1ODMZQLoKiXTWJhg@metrocast.net>  ; "mist dragon" <mistdragon@zdnetonebox.com> wrote in messaged7 news:7500353b.0307232325.7a8c9a6b@posting.google.com...l   ...b  G > Compaq gave up Alpha because it could not afford to keep in pace withe > Intelr  ? Sigh.  Seems there's always someone who failed to get the news."  L Compaq gave up Alpha because it didn't want to be in the processor business.I There was no question about its ability to stay ahead of Intel, nor aboutoJ its ability to profit by doing so:  Compaq just preferred to lie about itsI reasons in order to try to make accepting its decision more palatable for I those to whom it had made commitments regarding Alpha's long-term future.M   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 13:21:24 GMT-9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>T, Subject: Re: Sun Micro Profit, Revenues Fall0 Message-ID: <o3RTa.793$u24.239@news.cpqcorp.net>  ; "mist dragon" <mistdragon@zdnetonebox.com> wrote in messagea7 news:7500353b.0307232325.7a8c9a6b@posting.google.com...aL > > I wonder if Sun will be able to react to such "proprietary" accusations. IeD > > think that in fairness, HP is in the same boat too, with its own proprietaryl > > expensive hardware.  >e >oA > It looks to me that Sun is in same trouble as so many companiesfH > before. The only thing that differs is that Sun equipment has achievedC > so large user base that it all came later on them than to others.m > H > Sun's boxes have always been very nice to use and the service has beenB > good, but they are also known to be slow and expensive on modernG > standards and they never made a high-end servers (yes, even the large0D > SMP boxes are still rather slow compared their Intel competitors). >   I The amusing thing is that you can replace "Sun" in the above with DEC/VAXr( and you pretty much have the same story.  G > Compaq gave up Alpha because it could not afford to keep in pace witht' > Intel and same could happen to Sparc.e  H Sparc has been running on vapours for a long time now, much like the VAXG did.  The question is if Sun can somehow make the breakthrough in SparctL performance that will leapfrog it back into the game, or if they continue toG shave margins to have a price low enough to compete, or figure a way to/L "scale out" with underperforming CPUs.  DEC's answer was to replace VAX withH Alpha and continue to try and be a traditional computer company buildingE everything from it's CPU's to it's device and bus controllers...  the H strategy failed and DEC is now on it's second owner, and Alpha will fadeG into the sunset.  Sun needs to bite the bullet and come up with a SparcyF transition plan.  Itanium would be the way to go, but I can't see themK joining in an Intel based strategy - Opteron would be better for them as iteE gives them some amount of uniqueness - while getting them competetiveoK performance.  Frankly, AMD could take them over using Sun's own cash to pay0= for most of the takeover... giving AMD a major server vendor.c   > Imho Sun was taking thes? > traditional approach where Intel is placed to low end and owniG > technologies on the high end. This approach is taken also by the IBM,sC > but the problem is that Sun has no real high-end the way IBM has.O >OC > Sun started to sell intel servers, but if you looked at the specsaG > those were well underpowered compared to other servers in the market.2F > Now just few months ago they came out with new Linux servers runningB > RH and by the specs they were cheaper than Dells! (amusing thing; > though, because they are made in same factory in Taiwan).s >nF > Something has obviously happened. It looks like Sun wants more shareH > of Linux, even with the expense of its boxes. This approach could takeF > it the same way SGI went, first declaring to going to Intel and whenF > it was delayed, back to Mips and back to Intel and it almost crashed > the whole company. >t  K Sun is conflicted.  Solaris vs Linux.  Sounds like the VMS vs UNIX strugglehH DEC went through.  In the end DEC could not focus on either.  Solaris isC their bread & butter legacy revenue stream... mostly tied to a slow G proprietary CPU that costs real money to attempt to speed up.  Linux is K starting to deliver the promise of the UNIX makers (in particular Sun) whenmL they attacked the "proprietary" OS market with "Open" systems... but can SunL make money if they go to both a commodity HW base *and* a commodity OS base?  4 > OTOH, what are the chances to Sun ? Bad situation. >   G Very bad.  Not necessarily fatal, but a weak stock price and large cashB balance can be dangerous.z   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jul 2003 11:28:57 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)o, Subject: Re: Sun Micro Profit, Revenues Fall3 Message-ID: <anbxVT$$+d8h@eisner.encompasserve.org>>  l In article <o3RTa.793$u24.239@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> writes: >    > 5 >> OTOH, what are the chances to Sun ? Bad situation.  >> > I > Very bad.  Not necessarily fatal, but a weak stock price and large casho > balance can be dangerous.c >   7 	Very dangerous indeed.  Hostile business 101 ala Larry,> 	Ellison might lead to HP/IBM making a hostile takeover bid of> 	Sun.  Even if it fails, picking up the pieces could more thanB 	pay for the failure and leave Sun fatally wounded in the process.  : 	Ellison may have misstepped.  PeopleSoft is stronger than' 	he thought and even met sales targets.h  ? 	Sun is a different story.  There isn't any underlying strengthi> 	there.  9 straight quarters of declining revenues.  A hostile@ 	bid could indeed freeze their sales.  Very attractive takeover  	target indeed!    				Rob    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 10:42:30 GMTi+ From: Steve Fournier <stevef85@hotmail.com> ; Subject: Sybase 11.0.3.3 on 6.2-1H3 Multiple Engine Problem6> Message-ID: <Xns93C244AF4F92Fstevef85hotmailcom@207.217.77.21>  M i have a 4 cpu 4100 running OpenVms 6.2-1H3 and Sybase SQL Server 11.0.3.3.  iI when i try to enable multiple data base engines (max online engines=3) i  # get strange errors in errorlog. as:-  B tcp_attnrcv_defer: Read pending cancel error, socket 2, listener 09 - VMS error: $SYSTEM-F-IVIDENT, invalid identifier format   B the system runs for a time (hours, days), generating these errors L frequently until i get data base connections holding locks which can not be J killed from ISQL.  this brings the system to a standstill and a reboot is  usually required.a  L can anyone provide insight into this?  i understand that all components are E rather long in tooth but upgrading/replacing really is not an option.E   thanks   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 07:51:53 +0200s From: dm <dimez@gmx.ch>a Subject: Re: Sybase client% Message-ID: <3F1F73F9.8070700@gmx.ch>   
 Thank you,   this brings some hope!    we have the following situation:  F after a query with the ISQL command and having onbly a IP connection,  nothing is happening!n  : after 2 minites (timeout) we get following error messages:    !          No such device availableo and'           Unable to create socket  3 the creation of the IP device (socket) 5001 failed! I there must be some incompatible shared libraries or problems with the IP   stacks  ! (actual running: TCP-IP V5.1-15 )s  1 the sybase client seems to be the same Ver 10.0.3e    but you TCP is a higher version!7 have you modified any TCP settings (buffer size or ...)h  ? (I have to mention, that the same program is running on an old g) standalone machine, )AXP, running the old  UCX , Ver 4.2-21)f   so, updating the IP could help?    thank you and regardso Dieter Meier       Rob.Buxton@wcc.govt.nz wrote:w  = >On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 12:03:45 +0200, dm <dimez@gmx.ch> wrote:a >o >  e >pK >>Has any body a running sybase client (license locally installed) for VMS eI >>7.1-2 (or higher) which can query with the IP stack (TCP-IP V5.1-15 or r >>higher) ? 5 >>(Decnet is working, but on PC only TCP is working!)h >> >>thanks for any ideas or helpsi >> >>Dieter Meier >> >> >>     >>D >Yes we're running Sybase Open Client 10.0 (something) under OpenVMS2 >7.2 (VAX) and 7.2-2 (Alpha) with TCPIP 5.3 ECO 2. >t0 >Is there a problem you're not telling us about? >l$ >We only use TCPIP for connectivity. >  i >n   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 13:41:09 GMT / From: "Jeff Goodwin" <jgoodwin@maine.rrr-r.com>. Subject: Re: Sybase client9 Message-ID: <VlRTa.176590$8B.123870@twister.nyroc.rr.com>    We're running at this level:  ! "SYBASE_SYSTEM" = "SYBASE_V1004:"   ?   Compaq TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.1 - ECO 5s7   on a AlphaServer ES45 Model 2B running OpenVMS V7.3-1o  = Make sure you have the SRI QIO Interface (INETDRIVER) loaded:7  - TCPIP> show config enable service inet_drivere   Enable service      INET_DRIVER          Options: None  1 It's under "Optional components" in TCPIP$CONFIG.g   - Jeff  D "dm" <dimez@gmx.ch> wrote in message news:3F1F73F9.8070700@gmx.ch... > Thank you, >o > this brings some hope! >n" > we have the following situation: >aG > after a query with the ISQL command and having onbly a IP connection,e > nothing is happening!y >u< > after 2 minites (timeout) we get following error messages: >: >c# >          No such device available  > andt" >          Unable to create socket >M5 > the creation of the IP device (socket) 5001 failed!RJ > there must be some incompatible shared libraries or problems with the IP > stacke >e# > (actual running: TCP-IP V5.1-15 )  >r3 > the sybase client seems to be the same Ver 10.0.3t > " > but you TCP is a higher version!9 > have you modified any TCP settings (buffer size or ...)f > @ > (I have to mention, that the same program is running on an old+ > standalone machine, )AXP, running the oldt > UCX , Ver 4.2-21)n >o! > so, updating the IP could help?n >o > thank you and regards  > Dieter Meier >m >  >c > Rob.Buxton@wcc.govt.nz wrote:u >g? > >On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 12:03:45 +0200, dm <dimez@gmx.ch> wrote:i > >_ > >  > >sL > >>Has any body a running sybase client (license locally installed) for VMSJ > >>7.1-2 (or higher) which can query with the IP stack (TCP-IP V5.1-15 or
 > >>higher) ? 7 > >>(Decnet is working, but on PC only TCP is working!)w > >>! > >>thanks for any ideas or helps' > >> > >>Dieter Meier > >> > >> > >> > >>F > >Yes we're running Sybase Open Client 10.0 (something) under OpenVMS4 > >7.2 (VAX) and 7.2-2 (Alpha) with TCPIP 5.3 ECO 2. > >d2 > >Is there a problem you're not telling us about? > > & > >We only use TCPIP for connectivity. > >n > >r >e   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 08:28:41 +0100e" From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com> Subject: Re: The PDP lives' Message-ID: <3F1F8AA9.2030001@spam.com>a   norm.raphael@metso.com wrote:i > http://www.oldi.com/tecla/ >=201 > Tune Your Manufacturing and Business Operationso, > with TECLA?, a Programmable Data Processor   Course, it does. Dassault still use some !    D. --=20o- Didier Morandi sarl au capital de 8 000 eurosa                     Tout VMS-   19 chemin de la Butte 31400 Toulouse Francee/   T=E9l: 33(0)5 6120 1964 Fax: 33(0)5 6154 1928s&           http://www.didiermorandi.com$             RCS Toulouse 448 694 851   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jul 2003 07:53:56 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)a Subject: Re: The PDP lives3 Message-ID: <Pu$oNF1kEF4V@eisner.encompasserve.org>f  ^ In article <OF51912DBC.F0BF2AEA-ON85256D6C.0060EA7A@metso.com>, norm.raphael@metso.com writes: >  > http://www.oldi.com/tecla/ > 1 > Tune Your Manufacturing and Business Operations0, > with TECLA?, a Programmable Data Processor  ?    IRRC that was the second expansion of PDP.  The original wasCH    Programmed Data Processor.  DEC changed it to make it clear it didn't    come that way.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 10:04:36 -04004 From: norm.raphael@metso.com Subject: Re: The PDP lives? Message-ID: <OFEE1249C5.1D61F695-ON85256D6D.004D088C@metso.com>L  # ..the TECLA is no vacuum cleaner...   A Is this a proper device to be named a Programable Data Processor?-H                                                                        =                        =20H                                                                        =                        =20H                                                                        =                        =20H                                                                        =                        =20H  > TECLA is an industrially hardened embedded PC designed for both low-= power,                 =20H  > and high-speed applications. That makes it ideal for OEM application= s such as              =20H  > telemetry, networking, SCADA and machine control. TECLA is also rugg= ed.                    =20H  > With no rotating media or fans, it withstands the toughest plant flo= or conditions.         =20H                                                                        =                        =20H                                                                        =                        =20      : From:  Didier Morandi <no@spam.com> on 07/24/2003 03:28 AM  . Please respond to Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>   To:    Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com cc:>   Subject:    Re: The PDP livese     norm.raphael@metso.com wrote:e > http://www.oldi.com/tecla/ >l1 > Tune Your Manufacturing and Business Operations , > with TECLA?, a Programmable Data Processor   Course, it does. Dassault still use some !o   D. --- Didier Morandi sarl au capital de 8 000 euros                      Tout VMS-   19 chemin de la Butte 31400 Toulouse Francey/   T=E9l: 33(0)5 6120 1964 Fax: 33(0)5 6154 1928u&           http://www.didiermorandi.com$             RCS Toulouse 448 694 851           =e   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jul 2003 11:46:46 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)i Subject: Re: The PDP lives3 Message-ID: <dDCWkbpyN6Az@eisner.encompasserve.org>s  ^ In article <OFEE1249C5.1D61F695-ON85256D6D.004D088C@metso.com>, norm.raphael@metso.com writes: > % > ..the TECLA is no vacuum cleaner...l > C > Is this a proper device to be named a Programable Data Processor?   B    Seeing as it uses an "86 Processor" and runs Windows CE I thinkD    the current owners of the PDP trademark, if there are any, should#    run their lawyers past this one.r  E    A real Programmable Data Processor was designed by DEC and hasn't n    been built in a decade.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 15:58:42 GMTl# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> ( Subject: Re: What are HP Insiders doing?H Message-ID: <SmTTa.30130$vz%.18430@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  3 "jlsue" <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net> wrote in messagee2 news:cngthv4a5a7rb2klelqbc7b1mti3ptjdce@4ax.com...A > On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 17:43:47 GMT, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>a wrote: >fB > >No Fred, it's that insiders are apparently NOT buying HP stock. > >fE > >If you look at the date ranges of the trades, we're talking nearlye 1 C > >year of elapsed time and the ratio of sales:purchases is 20:1 orn > >thereabouts.t > >o > B > It's curious, though, that for them to sell it, somebody is also
 buying it. > Wonder who that would be.e    E There is a saying in the brokerage industry that goes like this, "Let   the suckers have it at the top".   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 17:21:45 GMTi9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>g( Subject: Re: What are HP Insiders doing?0 Message-ID: <JAUTa.816$xc4.275@news.cpqcorp.net>  . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageB news:SmTTa.30130$vz%.18430@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com... >05 > "jlsue" <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net> wrote in messagel4 > news:cngthv4a5a7rb2klelqbc7b1mti3ptjdce@4ax.com...C > > On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 17:43:47 GMT, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>< > wrote: > >OD > > >No Fred, it's that insiders are apparently NOT buying HP stock. > > > G > > >If you look at the date ranges of the trades, we're talking nearlyi > 1nE > > >year of elapsed time and the ratio of sales:purchases is 20:1 orV > > >thereabouts.> > > >: > >PD > > It's curious, though, that for them to sell it, somebody is also > buying it. > > Wonder who that would be.n >i >oG > There is a saying in the brokerage industry that goes like this, "Lete" > the suckers have it at the top". >  >u  L Funny, it would seem that every single sale you quoted would have netted the6 buyer a profit of they had held it to any recent time.  * You should pick a better subject to troll.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 16:00:35 +0100 " From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>F Subject: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Migrate obsolete VAX/VMS SW to OpenVMS Itanium' Message-ID: <3F1FF493.7020601@spam.com>-  J So, after four months of study that I did, it looks like there are a lot =  J of VAX/VMS users worldwide who have a BIG concern about having specific=20I software still running (well) on VAX/VMS but not planned by anybody to=20r& port it to the IA64 processors family.  6 I have created a Study Force on this particular issue.  I If you wish to receive my monthly newsletter (first issue next month),=20 4 feel free to send mail to openvms@didiermorandi.com.   This is not advertising.   D. --=20e- Didier Morandi sarl au capital de 8 000 euroso                     Tout VMS-   19 chemin de la Butte 31400 Toulouse France /   T=E9l: 33(0)5 6120 1964 Fax: 33(0)5 6154 1928h&           http://www.didiermorandi.com$             RCS Toulouse 448 694 851   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jul 2003 11:53:16 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)nJ Subject: Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Migrate obsolete VAX/VMS SW to OpenVMS Itanium3 Message-ID: <Krt68SK3qs9n@eisner.encompasserve.org>m  L In article <3F1FF493.7020601@spam.com>, Didier Morandi <no@spam.com> writes:K > If you wish to receive my monthly newsletter (first issue next month),=20r6 > feel free to send mail to openvms@didiermorandi.com. >  > This is not advertising.  A    So are you saying you're going to give away the newsletter, oryB    are you saying you're going to advertise somewhere else, or are5    you saying there will be no ads in the newsletter?c   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 17:14:17 GMTa9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> J Subject: Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Migrate obsolete VAX/VMS SW to OpenVMS Itanium0 Message-ID: <JtUTa.814$Sj4.733@news.cpqcorp.net>  G Funny, sounds like advertising to me.  If you have a list of customers,oK software, and concerns from those customers - feel free to send this to SueoE Skonetski who will be able to redirect it to the appropriate customern advocates attention.  J I have a top level question:  Are their concerns with IA64 pretty much theJ same concerns as Alpha?  That is, are they still on VAX because they could* not or were blocked from porting to Alpha?    / "Didier Morandi" <no@spam.com> wrote in messagen! news:3F1FF493.7020601@spam.com...oH So, after four months of study that I did, it looks like there are a lotG of VAX/VMS users worldwide who have a BIG concern about having specificlF software still running (well) on VAX/VMS but not planned by anybody to& port it to the IA64 processors family.  6 I have created a Study Force on this particular issue.  F If you wish to receive my monthly newsletter (first issue next month),4 feel free to send mail to openvms@didiermorandi.com.   This is not advertising.   D. --- Didier Morandi sarl au capital de 8 000 eurose                     Tout VMS-   19 chemin de la Butte 31400 Toulouse Franceu-   Tl: 33(0)5 6120 1964 Fax: 33(0)5 6154 1928e&           http://www.didiermorandi.com$             RCS Toulouse 448 694 851   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.406 ************************