1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 25 Jul 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 408       Contents:! Re: Advanced Server 7.3a Required 	 Re: cache 
 Re: cache'
 Re: cache'
 Re: Cache'& Re: CNXMGRERR with V7.3-1 DSSI cluster& Re: CNXMGRERR with V7.3-1 DSSI cluster3 Compilers XD Ada, MIL-STD-1750A, CORAL, PERSPECTIVE 7 Re: Compilers XD Ada, MIL-STD-1750A, CORAL, PERSPECTIVE " Re: Compiling PINE 3.91-2 for AXP." Re: Compiling PINE 3.91-2 for AXP.B Re: D.H. Brown: EV7 AlphaServers Deliver Enhanced RAS and PowerfulB Re: D.H. Brown: EV7 AlphaServers Deliver Enhanced RAS and PowerfulO Re: D.H. Brown: EV7 AlphaServers Deliver Enhanced RAS and Powerful  Performance O Re: D.H. Brown: EV7 AlphaServers Deliver Enhanced RAS and Powerful  Performance P Re: D.H. Brown: EV7 AlphaServers Deliver Enhanced RAS and Powerful Performance P# David D. or anyone with an STK L700 ' Re: David D. or anyone with an STK L700 ' Re: David D. or anyone with an STK L700 ' Re: David D. or anyone with an STK L700 / Re: DEC-AXPVMS-VMS731_CDRECORD-V0100--4.PCSI v. / Re: DEC-AXPVMS-VMS731_CDRECORD-V0100--4.PCSI v. G Re: Does RT-11 run on the PDP-11/70?  (was Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates) G Re: Does RT-11 run on the PDP-11/70?  (was Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates) P Re: Does RT-11 run on the PDP-11/70?  (was Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates) Dates)Da Elevate privileges in a program # Re: Elevate privileges in a program # Re: Elevate privileges in a program # Re: Elevate privileges in a program # Re: Elevate privileges in a program # Re: Elevate privileges in a program # Re: Elevate privileges in a program # Re: Elevate privileges in a program # Re: Elevate privileges in a program  Re: EMC on VMS Re: EMC on VMS Re: EMC on VMS# Re: Encompass Members - Please Help # Re: Encompass Members - Please Help # Re: Encompass Members - Please Help # Re: Encompass Members - Please Help 5 Re: Help required to run Java applications in OpenVMS 7 How to operate MSL5000 tape library from OpenVMS prompt ; Re: How to operate MSL5000 tape library from OpenVMS prompt ; Re: How to operate MSL5000 tape library from OpenVMS prompt ; Re: How to operate MSL5000 tape library from OpenVMS prompt E Re: IDC reports PC Market Share: Dell over HP by a nose; both pulling E Re: IDC reports PC Market Share: Dell over HP by a nose; both pulling E Re: IDC reports PC Market Share: Dell over HP by a nose; both pulling E Re: IDC reports PC Market Share: Dell over HP by a nose; both pulling E Re: IDC reports PC Market Share: Dell over HP by a nose; both pulling P Re: IDC reports PC Market Share: Dell over HP by a nose; both pulling  away fromP Re: IDC reports PC Market Share: Dell over HP by a nose; both pulling  away fromP Re: IDC reports PC Market Share: Dell over HP by a nose; both pulling away from P Re: IDC reports PC Market Share: Dell over HP by a nose; both pulling away from G RE: Legal status of EVE source code ?, was: RE: Creating an EVE o	r TPU F Re: Legal status of EVE source code ?, was: RE: Creating an EVE or TPUF Re: Legal status of EVE source code ?, was: RE: Creating an EVE or TPU2 Re: Migrate obsolete VAX/VMS SW to OpenVMS Itanium MySQL on VMS7.1   Re: NEWBIE: DECWindows Bit Depth  Re: NEWBIE: DECWindows Bit Depth  Re: NEWBIE: DECWindows Bit Depth  Re: NEWBIE: DECWindows Bit Depth  Re: NEWBIE: DECWindows Bit Depth  Re: NEWBIE: DECWindows Bit Depth/ Re: Obsolete cross compilers: where did you go? / Re: Obsolete cross compilers: where did you go? / Re: Obsolete cross compilers: where did you go? / Re: Obsolete cross compilers: where did you go? 1 Re: OpenVMS homepage and 'sales.liveperson.net' ? 1 Re: OpenVMS homepage and 'sales.liveperson.net' ? 1 Re: OpenVMS homepage and 'sales.liveperson.net' ? 1 Re: OpenVMS homepage and 'sales.liveperson.net' ? 1 Re: OpenVMS homepage and 'sales.liveperson.net' ? " Re: Packed decimal arithmetic in C" Re: Packed decimal arithmetic in C" RE: Packed decimal arithmetic in C" Re: Packed decimal arithmetic in C" RE: Packed decimal arithmetic in C" Re: Packed decimal arithmetic in C" Re: Packed decimal arithmetic in C" Re: Packed decimal arithmetic in C" Re: Packed decimal arithmetic in C# Re: Sun Micro Profit, Revenues Fall # Re: Sun Micro Profit, Revenues Fall # Re: Sun Micro Profit, Revenues Fall # Re: Sun Micro Profit, Revenues Fall # Re: Sun Micro Profit, Revenues Fall  Re: Sybase client  SysAdmin Day Re: SysAdmin Day2 TCPIP$TRACEROUTE: A non-recoverable error occured. Re: The PDP lives & VMS and Intel, yet another question...* Re: VMS and Intel, yet another question.../ XD Ada on Alpha (was: Obsolete cross compilers) A Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Migrate obsolete VAX/VMS SW to OpenVMS Itanium A Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Migrate obsolete VAX/VMS SW to OpenVMS Itanium A Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Migrate obsolete VAX/VMS SW to OpenVMS Itanium A Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Migrate obsolete VAX/VMS SW to OpenVMS Itanium A Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Migrate obsolete VAX/VMS SW to OpenVMS Itanium   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 24 Jul 2003 23:38:53 -0700% From: Bart.Zorn@xs4all.nl (Bart Zorn) * Subject: Re: Advanced Server 7.3a Required= Message-ID: <a98cd882.0307242238.62bda7fc@posting.google.com>   l "Brad McCusker" <brad.mccuskerNosp@Mcompaq.com> wrote in message news:<vhvjfqpsbjhbbd@corp.supernews.com>...1 > "PEN" <paul.nuneznosp@mhp.com> wrote in message ( > news:bfgqfj$h59$1@hplms2.hpl.hp.com... > > H > >I think there's still some confusion here.  The kit referenced in the	 >  readme  > >file at:  > > N > >http://ftp.support.compaq.com/patches/public/Readmes/vms/cpq-axpvms-advance >  d > >server-v0703-a1-1.README  > > 	 > ><snip> D > > You can "upgrade" directly from Advanced Server for OpenVMS v7.3
 >  (including 	 > ><snip> I > > In fact you can upgrade directly from PATHWORKS for OpenVMS v6.0C (or  > later) > K > I'll do you one better.  You can install the ECO kit on a system that has L > never had any prior version of PATHOWORKS of Advanced Server on it.  Its a: > full kit - no prior version pre-requisites what-so-ever! > N > Since at least the early V5 days, that is the way all of our ECOs have been!    B Although I appreciate the advantages of having a full kit, it doesD have the disadvantage that there is no way of doing a rolling updateE without the requirement of shutting down Advanced Server on all nodes  in the cluster!    Regards,  	 Bart Zorn    ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jul 2003 03:46:31 -0700' From: nikki_wire@yahoo.com (nikki_wire)  Subject: Re: cache< Message-ID: <60fdd9c9.0307250246.864d8fe@posting.google.com>  ) Thanks chaps - H <return> was the answer.   	 Nice one!    ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jul 2003 06:37:09 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: Re: cache' 3 Message-ID: <VzS78gd8HIx1@eisner.encompasserve.org>   [ In article <3F207973.FA474904@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:  > nikki_wire wrote:  >>  E >> Okay I'm stumped - I typed 'cache' on the  vms command line and it F >> dropped me to an INS> prompt which i can't get out of!!! There's no9 >> symbol or logcial for it and no help. Can anyone help? 	 >> Thanks  > 0 > Cache' is the new name for InterSystems MUMPS.  I InterSystems claims it is a separate implementation, although a successor  product.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 09:53:43 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>  Subject: Re: cache' ' Message-ID: <3F214477.7CFDDEB2@fsi.net>    Larry Kilgallen wrote: > ] > In article <3F207973.FA474904@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:  > > nikki_wire wrote:  > >>G > >> Okay I'm stumped - I typed 'cache' on the  vms command line and it H > >> dropped me to an INS> prompt which i can't get out of!!! There's no; > >> symbol or logcial for it and no help. Can anyone help?  > >> Thanks  > > 2 > > Cache' is the new name for InterSystems MUMPS. > K > InterSystems claims it is a separate implementation, although a successor 
 > product.  G ...and the predecessor to Cache' is going away. So, I make no practical D distinction: the end result is the same. ISM goes bye-bye and Cache' takes over the realm.    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jul 2003 11:17:52 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: Re: Cache' 3 Message-ID: <Ug6+XDH7mklf@eisner.encompasserve.org>   [ In article <3F214477.7CFDDEB2@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:  > Larry Kilgallen wrote: >>  ^ >> In article <3F207973.FA474904@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes: >> > nikki_wire wrote: >> >> H >> >> Okay I'm stumped - I typed 'cache' on the  vms command line and itI >> >> dropped me to an INS> prompt which i can't get out of!!! There's no < >> >> symbol or logcial for it and no help. Can anyone help? >> >> Thanks >> >3 >> > Cache' is the new name for InterSystems MUMPS.  >>  L >> InterSystems claims it is a separate implementation, although a successor >> product.  > I > ...and the predecessor to Cache' is going away. So, I make no practical F > distinction: the end result is the same. ISM goes bye-bye and Cache' > takes over the realm.   C Drawing a parallel, DEC C was much more tha a "new name" for VAX C.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 13:00:57 +0200 < From: "Martin Vorlaender" <martin.vorlaender@pdv-systeme.de>/ Subject: Re: CNXMGRERR with V7.3-1 DSSI cluster 8 Message-ID: <bfr2m1$huuj2$1@ID-56200.news.uni-berlin.de>   Hi,    Bob Blunt wrote: > Martin Vorlaender wrote:E >> I wonder whether anyone has experienced the same strange thing I'm  >> seeing here.  [...] H > Martin, you indicate that the systems are connected to HSD storage via9 > KFPSAs and that the systems have separate system disks.   J Yup. DUA10 and DUA20 (don't ask me why our hardware guy chose DU over DI). The quorum disk ist DUA30.  * > Does this mean that they SHARE the DSSI?   Yes. The cabling goes like  *   machine A -- HSD 1 -- HSD 2 -- machine B  C > Are their system disks SCSI-based or are they on one of the HSDs?   
 HSD based.  I > Clustering SHOULD come up and try to use the DSSI channels by default.     Also with 100MBit ethernet?    > Are the nodes configured in a F > manner that they can "see" each other via the DSSI?  Is interconnect > via NI necessary?   C No - at least it shouldn't. But as I wrote earlier: when I suppress A SCS over NI via $SCACP (which seems to happen also when a machine  boots), the machine crashes.  E > Is this a new configuration, or did the problem start recently?  If B > this is new behavior to an established cluster, what happened or > changed recently?    It's a new configuration.    cu,    Martin --  F   OpenVMS:                | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer3    The operating system   | work: mv@pdv-systeme.de F    God runs the           |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/:    earth simulation on.   | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jul 2003 08:55:01 -07001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) / Subject: Re: CNXMGRERR with V7.3-1 DSSI cluster = Message-ID: <cf15391e.0307250755.12ce85d2@posting.google.com>   ` Bob Blunt <robert.blunt@hp.nospam.com> wrote in message news:<3f18717b$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>...5  > Clustering SHOULD come up and try to use the DSSI   > channels by default.  ? This is 7.3-1, and behavior in this area has changed as of that D release.  Instead of a fixed load class value for all LANs as beforeE (which resulted in things like causing DSSI to be preferred even over > Gigabit Ethernet), VMS now recognizes that different LANs haveF different bandwidths, and adjusts the load class value (which is basedD on nominal bandwidth in megabits per second) for PEDRIVER to reflectD the speed it is actually running at in a given configuration.  So ifB the DE602s in this configuration are running at Fast Ethernet (100A megabit) speeds, they would be preferred by SCS in 7.3-1 over the ) 4-megabyte/second (32 megabit) DSSI link.   C This is a change from the fixed priority order by interconnect type F (based on a fixed set of load class values for each interconnect type)  used by SCS in earlier versions.  ? $MCR SCACP SHOW PORT will display the Load Class values for the  various ports on a system.   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jul 2003 07:11:29 -0700# From: gknight@eds.com (Gary Knight) < Subject: Compilers XD Ada, MIL-STD-1750A, CORAL, PERSPECTIVE= Message-ID: <103101bb.0307250611.654a3dbb@posting.google.com>   F This site active will give info and contacts to anybody needing to use+ these and associated products worth a look.      www.swep-eds.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 18:55:13 +0100 " From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>@ Subject: Re: Compilers XD Ada, MIL-STD-1750A, CORAL, PERSPECTIVE' Message-ID: <3F216F01.9050503@spam.com>    Gary Knight wrote:H > This site active will give info and contacts to anybody needing to use- > these and associated products worth a look.  >=20 >=20 > www.swep-eds.com  ( Super. Will XD Ada be ported to Itanium?   D. --=20 - Didier Morandi sarl au capital de 8 000 euros                      Tout VMS-   19 chemin de la Butte 31400 Toulouse France /   T=E9l: 33(0)5 6120 1964 Fax: 33(0)5 6154 1928 &           http://www.didiermorandi.com$             RCS Toulouse 448 694 851   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jul 2003 08:56:41 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) + Subject: Re: Compiling PINE 3.91-2 for AXP. 3 Message-ID: <DokAZPq6fG92@eisner.encompasserve.org>   k In article <tomnews-44FFA8.22083024072003@news.comcast.giganews.com>, Tom Rymes <tomnews@rymes.net> writes:  > Hi folks,  > K > I am trying to compile PINE for use on my system (VMS 7.3-1 AXP). I will  = > be using it to check IMAP accounts on a different server...  > K > However, when I run the vmsbuild.com script, it complains that I have no  J > C compiler installed. No surprise there. Now, I need to get my hands on I > DEC C, or GCC, or something else. Of course, I'm fairly certain that I  I > will need to purchase a PAK to install and use the DEC C compiler, and  C > the only version of GCC that I can find seems to be old and only  G > compiled for VAX. (Though I suppose it might be binary compatible...)   J   If you want a PINE that works already you'll find it on the Freeware CD C   on www.openvms.compaq.com, I think it's on the 4.0 CD.  You don't +   need to recompile to use it on VMS 7.3-1.   G   If you look in the GCC offerings on the GNU web site you can find an  A   Alpha version of the compiler (look for the OpenVMS link on the B   GCC page).  IRRC GCC is now at 3.x (and is now the GNU compiler B   collection) and the Alpha image is the GNU C compiler (with the    GXX C++ compiler) from 2.x.   F   PINE would probably compile OK with GCC 2.x, but there's some chance.   you'll have to get an older version of PINE.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 09:58:39 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> + Subject: Re: Compiling PINE 3.91-2 for AXP. ' Message-ID: <3F21459F.4D560485@fsi.net>    Bob Koehler wrote: > [snip]H >   If you look in the GCC offerings on the GNU web site you can find anC >   Alpha version of the compiler (look for the OpenVMS link on the C >   GCC page).  IRRC GCC is now at 3.x (and is now the GNU compiler C >   collection) and the Alpha image is the GNU C compiler (with the  >   GXX C++ compiler) from 2.x.   G GCC for ALpha was abandoned, AFAIK. The last Alpha version produced bad  object code by some reports.  H >   PINE would probably compile OK with GCC 2.x, but there's some chance0 >   you'll have to get an older version of PINE.  H Might a suitable licensed hobbyist system be of some help here, at leastG in producing the binary (freeware)? You'll be using PINE, not the hobby G system, in a commercial pursuit, which seems consistent with statements  made in the past.    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jul 2003 08:36:37 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) K Subject: Re: D.H. Brown: EV7 AlphaServers Deliver Enhanced RAS and Powerful 3 Message-ID: <o54kn4UakcK0@eisner.encompasserve.org>   V In article <3F201A93.B43E95A6@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes: > Fred Kleinsorge wrote:J >> The games Sun used in boosting a Spec result are widely known, and haveL >> re-sparc'ed a lively debate on how this type of stuff might be prevented.H >> In short, a specific compiler optimization for a very limited type of& >> application juiced up your numbers. > N > Interesting you would mention this. I strongly suspect that IA64 is far moreP > guilty of this type of behaviour than SPARC or other chips, simply because theO > EPIC concept requires the compiler to do very specific work to make a program  > run fast.   E       If it recognizes certain code typically found in benchmarks and E    does special work to get that stuff fast under EPIC, then the IA64 A    compiler is guilty of the same juicing.  If it instead applies G    detailed understanding of EPIC to boost all applications then that's #    exactly what the customer wants.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 15:32:04 GMT 9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> K Subject: Re: D.H. Brown: EV7 AlphaServers Deliver Enhanced RAS and Powerful 0 Message-ID: <U3cUa.881$Wd5.837@news.cpqcorp.net>  H "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:o54kn4UakcK0@eisner.encompasserve.org... 4 > In article <3F201A93.B43E95A6@istop.com>, JF Mezei# <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes:  > > Fred Kleinsorge wrote:L > >> The games Sun used in boosting a Spec result are widely known, and haveC > >> re-sparc'ed a lively debate on how this type of stuff might be 
 prevented.J > >> In short, a specific compiler optimization for a very limited type of( > >> application juiced up your numbers. > > K > > Interesting you would mention this. I strongly suspect that IA64 is far  moreF > > guilty of this type of behaviour than SPARC or other chips, simply because the I > > EPIC concept requires the compiler to do very specific work to make a  program 
 > > run fast.  > G >       If it recognizes certain code typically found in benchmarks and G >    does special work to get that stuff fast under EPIC, then the IA64 , >    compiler is guilty of the same juicing.  J And if that were true, I would agree with you.  I have not heard that thisJ is true from any source ( I don't know the people who did the benchmarks). Was that speculation?    >  If it instead appliesI >    detailed understanding of EPIC to boost all applications then that's % >    exactly what the customer wants.  >    Yup.   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jul 2003 08:39:35 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) X Subject: Re: D.H. Brown: EV7 AlphaServers Deliver Enhanced RAS and Powerful  Performance3 Message-ID: <IAM3U28SyaST@eisner.encompasserve.org>   n In article <moe0ivg0punds6g3en8qqpjp6deb5fr4u5@4ax.com>, Robert Klute <robert_klute_removethis@hp.com> writes: > H > Isn't the job of any compiler to do specific work that makes a programI > run fast?  Isn't that what all those compiler flags are for?  I thought J > the uproar was over the way the Sun compiler modifies data structures to > optimize the 179.art segment?   E    There was a compiler from one vendor, which when it saw a function F    name from the dryhstone benchmark, would ignore the source code andD    spit out highly hand tuned object code for doing fast dryhstones.  E    Pitty the customer who accidentally used that name in their "Hello     World" application.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 15:33:05 GMT 9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> X Subject: Re: D.H. Brown: EV7 AlphaServers Deliver Enhanced RAS and Powerful  Performance0 Message-ID: <R4cUa.882$Pe5.588@news.cpqcorp.net>  H "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:IAM3U28SyaST@eisner.encompasserve.org... G > In article <moe0ivg0punds6g3en8qqpjp6deb5fr4u5@4ax.com>, Robert Klute ( <robert_klute_removethis@hp.com> writes: > > J > > Isn't the job of any compiler to do specific work that makes a programK > > run fast?  Isn't that what all those compiler flags are for?  I thought L > > the uproar was over the way the Sun compiler modifies data structures to! > > optimize the 179.art segment?  > G >    There was a compiler from one vendor, which when it saw a function H >    name from the dryhstone benchmark, would ignore the source code andF >    spit out highly hand tuned object code for doing fast dryhstones. > G >    Pitty the customer who accidentally used that name in their "Hello  >    World" application. >   ? Yes, and I think that this type of trick was explicitly banned.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 11:12:22 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>Y Subject: Re: D.H. Brown: EV7 AlphaServers Deliver Enhanced RAS and Powerful Performance P ) Message-ID: <3F2148D5.649C2C5C@istop.com>    Keith Parris wrote: B > Gartner recently lowered Sun's overall vendor rating to Caution:E > http://www4.gartner.com/1_researchanalysis/vendor_rating/vr_sun.jsp   L So, Sun has fallen from its artificial .COM and Y2K pedestals. So has Nortel and plenty of other companies.  F Corporations have learned that they don't really need to replace theirI machines every year like their cars, especially in a slow economy after a N period where you spent like crazy are are stuck with excess computing capacityH because growth projections for which you had planned didn't materialise.  K Consider the HP family itself. Consider how much less computing it needs to I manage itself compared to a scenario where Tandem, Digital, Compaq and HP G would be independant companies. When you have a lot of consolidation in K industry, when you have a lot of companies that fade away when they funding E runs out (.COM), that not only removes demand but also puts a glut of & computing capacity on the used market.  Q The one who rises the fastest and highest is also the one that falls the hardest.   K If you consider Sun to have a proprietary system, then Sun is no worse than J IBM's MVS, or HP's HP-UX, NSK VMS. But Solaris has an edge because it is a? Unix and because it already has a lot of software ported to it.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 12:37:44 GMT # From: "John N." <JNixon@cfl.rr.com> , Subject: David D. or anyone with an STK L700> Message-ID: <sw9Ua.151787$ic1.3437717@twister.tampabay.rr.com>  K We are having problems getting our STK L700 to work with VMS.  We are using G MTI"s Oasis software.  MTI is willing to make whatever changes might be J needed, but HP gives us little more than saying the L700 is not supported.I We can live with an un-supported, but working device.  We can see all the K devices but they are not responding  to commands.  A status check shows the K correct information, but a library command, while seeming to work, fails to  move the robot arm.   5 Does anyone else have one of these working under VMS?   G David D.  I couldn't seem to get a message through your E-Mail  system.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 10:16:48 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> 0 Subject: Re: David D. or anyone with an STK L700& Message-ID: <3F2149E0.6F36268@fsi.net>   "John N." wrote: > M > We are having problems getting our STK L700 to work with VMS.  We are using  > MTI"s Oasis software.   E WOW!!! Are they still selling/supporting Oasis/RLM and TapeControl? I H thought those were EOL ages ago! (Last worked with 'em in 2000, and they' were heading the way of the Dodo then).   2 > MTI is willing to make whatever changes might beL > needed, but HP gives us little more than saying the L700 is not supported.  A Well, technically, anythong not HP-badged or OpenVMS certified is , "unsupported" (it'll likely work, but YOYO).  K > We can live with an un-supported, but working device.  We can see all the M > devices but they are not responding  to commands.  A status check shows the M > correct information, but a library command, while seeming to work, fails to  > move the robot arm.   7 > Does anyone else have one of these working under VMS?   D Actually, we drive the robots with ACSLS and issue requests to ACSLS? using DCSC on VMS. (...and people think *MY* code is screwy and  overcomplicated!).  I > David D.  I couldn't seem to get a message through your E-Mail  system.   B You gotta drop the ".nospam" to dls or earthlink. To nmh.org, yourG sending domain must translate/back-translate to clear the spam filters.    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 15:30:39 GMT # From: "John N." <JNixon@cfl.rr.com> 0 Subject: Re: David D. or anyone with an STK L700> Message-ID: <z2cUa.152044$ic1.3451532@twister.tampabay.rr.com>  I I don't know if they are still selling it or not, but they are supporting ! it, and (usually) quite well too. B It will take more than hardware obsolescense to make us go through1 implementng a  new software library system again.   H So did you acknowledge that you ARE successfully using the STK L700 with, VMS?  Are you using the SDLT 160/320 drives?  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message  news:3F2149E0.6F36268@fsi.net... > "John N." wrote: > > I > > We are having problems getting our STK L700 to work with VMS.  We are  using  > > MTI"s Oasis software.  > G > WOW!!! Are they still selling/supporting Oasis/RLM and TapeControl? I J > thought those were EOL ages ago! (Last worked with 'em in 2000, and they) > were heading the way of the Dodo then).  > 4 > > MTI is willing to make whatever changes might beC > > needed, but HP gives us little more than saying the L700 is not 
 supported. > C > Well, technically, anythong not HP-badged or OpenVMS certified is . > "unsupported" (it'll likely work, but YOYO). > I > > We can live with an un-supported, but working device.  We can see all  the K > > devices but they are not responding  to commands.  A status check shows  the L > > correct information, but a library command, while seeming to work, fails to > > move the robot arm.  > 9 > > Does anyone else have one of these working under VMS?  > F > Actually, we drive the robots with ACSLS and issue requests to ACSLSA > using DCSC on VMS. (...and people think *MY* code is screwy and  > overcomplicated!). > K > > David D.  I couldn't seem to get a message through your E-Mail  system.  > D > You gotta drop the ".nospam" to dls or earthlink. To nmh.org, yourI > sending domain must translate/back-translate to clear the spam filters.  >  > --   > David J. Dachtera  > dba DJE Systems  > http://www.djesys.com/ > * > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 11:53:43 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> 0 Subject: Re: David D. or anyone with an STK L700' Message-ID: <3F216097.3FDC17FE@fsi.net>    "John N." wrote: > K > I don't know if they are still selling it or not, but they are supporting # > it, and (usually) quite well too. D > It will take more than hardware obsolescense to make us go through3 > implementng a  new software library system again.  > J > So did you acknowledge that you ARE successfully using the STK L700 with. > VMS?  Are you using the SDLT 160/320 drives?  F Yes - we are using the SDLT-320 drives supplied by StorageTek (Quantum badged, not OVMS qualified).  G We will be implementing some changes this weekend: the SCSI cables that A connect the drive bulkead connections to the FC-SCSI devices (STK C SN3400, essentially a CrossRoads device - HP NSRs are also rebadged A CrossRoads kit) and the "Y-cables" that connect the drives to the 9 bulkhead (this allows hot-swap of the drives, allegedly).   B STK put out an ECO/FCO for these cables sometime in early July. IfF you're experiencing parity errors like we are, this may have something to do with it.  D Our STK VAR (Datalink(.com)) suggested that our FC cables may be theE wrong diameter, also. That'll be the next thing I suspect. I'm having H one broken drive replaced and another that I get parity errors on. We'llF see if the weekend changes have a positive impact here. If not, the FC  cables will be my next suspects.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jul 2003 06:43:14 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 8 Subject: Re: DEC-AXPVMS-VMS731_CDRECORD-V0100--4.PCSI v.3 Message-ID: <KeSgsA9yH0N3@eisner.encompasserve.org>   e In article <3F2061FA.A3C8B965@applied-synergy.com>, Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> writes:   F > Way back when INSTALL changed, it was necessary to do something like >  > 	INSTALL := INSTALL/COMMAND  > J > so that previously existing procedures would continue to work.  So thereG > is precedence for changing the defaults of existing management tools.   I I believe the precedent came with the transition to VMS V2 or VMS V3 when H a lot of the queue-related commands were changed.  The justification wasI that the commands changed all required considerable privilege and DEC did 2 reserve the right to change _privileged_ commands.  K Perhaps the most significant change was when the Backup command was changed J to default to /REWIND rather than /NOREWIND.  That affected non-privileged! users, but for reasons of safety.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 12:26:58 -0500 / From: Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> 8 Subject: Re: DEC-AXPVMS-VMS731_CDRECORD-V0100--4.PCSI v.3 Message-ID: <3F216862.FDD79341@applied-synergy.com>    Larry Kilgallen wrote: > g > In article <3F2061FA.A3C8B965@applied-synergy.com>, Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> writes:  > H > > Way back when INSTALL changed, it was necessary to do something like > > $ > >       INSTALL := INSTALL/COMMAND > > L > > so that previously existing procedures would continue to work.  So thereI > > is precedence for changing the defaults of existing management tools.  > K > I believe the precedent came with the transition to VMS V2 or VMS V3 when J > a lot of the queue-related commands were changed.  The justification wasK > that the commands changed all required considerable privilege and DEC did 4 > reserve the right to change _privileged_ commands. > M > Perhaps the most significant change was when the Backup command was changed L > to default to /REWIND rather than /NOREWIND.  That affected non-privileged# > users, but for reasons of safety.     8 Shouldn't PRODUCT INSTALL count as a privileged command?  G ----------------------------------------------------------------------- $ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  C Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com     Fax: 817-237-3074    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 11:22:02 +0200 A From: Christian Corti <Christian.Corti@studserv.uni-stuttgart.de> P Subject: Re: Does RT-11 run on the PDP-11/70?  (was Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates)* Message-ID: <qrsqfb.1va.ln@news.online.de>  8 Bill/Carolyn Pechter <pechter@shell.monmouth.com> wrote:0 > You need to sysgen RT11 for the light pattern.  @ That would be nice, but I can't find that sysgen option in V5.3.  	 Christian    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 13:05:35 GMT  From: ian@hammo.com (paramucho) P Subject: Re: Does RT-11 run on the PDP-11/70?  (was Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates)2 Message-ID: <3f282ad9.12513854@news.supernews.com>  3 On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 11:22:02 +0200, Christian Corti 2 <Christian.Corti@studserv.uni-stuttgart.de> wrote:  9 >Bill/Carolyn Pechter <pechter@shell.monmouth.com> wrote: 1 >> You need to sysgen RT11 for the light pattern.  > A >That would be nice, but I can't find that sysgen option in V5.3.   $ LIGH$t in RMONFB.MAC does the trick:   .IF NE  LIGH$T  .ROM   DEC     LITECT,VALUE=1         BNE     8$         ADD     #512.,LITECT 4$:     ROL     7$         BNE     5$         COM     7$ 5$:     BCC     6$         ADD     #100,4$m         BIC     #200,4$c 6$:     BIT     #LIGHT$,CONFG2         BEQ     8$         MOV     (PC)+,@(PC)+ 7$:      .WORD  0,SR .ENDCe       -- Ian " Impressive If Haughty - Q Magazine   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 09:37:03 GMTf) From: bob smith <sfmc68@bellatlantic.net>iY Subject: Re: Does RT-11 run on the PDP-11/70?  (was Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates) Dates)Da 7 Message-ID: <3T6Ua.17047$Qe5.5132@nwrddc03.gnilink.net>e   Bill/Carolyn Pechter wrote:l  , > In article <ikhlfb.4u3.ln@news.online.de>,E > Christian Corti  <Christian.Corti@studserv.uni-stuttgart.de> wrote:v > H >>And what about 11/45s? At least mine shows a nice pattern with RSX11M.J >>RT11 shows nothing interesting at all, neither does any version of UNIX. >> >>Christiann >  > 0 > You need to sysgen RT11 for the light pattern. > E > It has a pretty slick one. IIRC it had one light on each end movingoG > to the center bit -- they touch, then bounce out to the ends and then " > two lights do it and then three. >  > BillF Or dark lights circulating from the center out and then bouncing back @ and turning on....kind of like the old ping pong ball/mousetrap E demonstration of a nuclear (or as Bush says - Nuke Leer) reaction as > shown on Disney in the fifties.. bobm   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 11:49:59 GMTr( From: Mark Hemker <hemker@insightbb.com>( Subject: Elevate privileges in a program8 Message-ID: <5752ivskpr05bvsve4iikpnvscjlggbaee@4ax.com>  E I'm working with some of our programmers on a new product and we haverA run into a stumbling block with regards to needing privileges forvE certain system function calls.  What we have is a PASCAL program thattE needs to be able to make several function calls where the code in thetB functions requires elevated privileges.  We looked at installing aE shareable image with these functions, but as you know that won't workp= We also looked into writing a User-Written System Service andvB discovered that some of system service calls that we need can't be used in a UWSS.c  F To take this in baby steps, we have cut back to just trying to get oneE of the functions implemented.  This one function really just issues a > series of about 5 DCL commands that work with a very protectedF directory and the files in it.  We are currently creating a standaloneE image that issues the needed commands and I can install that with the F necessary privileges.  I know this isn't the best solution because nowE anyone can run the image from DCL and get to the protected directory.uD For this standalone image, we are looking writing it in C so that weE can use the SYSTEM() function or one of the EXEC() functions.  We arecE planning to use LIB$SPAWN from the PASCAL code to run this new image.P> Is there a PASCAL equivalent to SYSTEM() or EXEC() or is there something better?0  9 If anyone has any suggestions, I would love to hear them._  6 By the way, if you reply via private email, please use3 mhemker@remember.com since that is my work address.    Thanks,  Mark Hemkerh hemker@insightbb.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 09:02:11 -0400m* From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com>, Subject: Re: Elevate privileges in a program. Message-ID: <3F20F213.12157.794F7A6@localhost>  + On 25 Jul 2003 at 11:49, Mark Hemker wrote:e' > What we have is a PASCAL program thathG > needs to be able to make several function calls where the code in the ) > functions requires elevated privileges.e [...] ( > This one function really just issues a@ > series of about 5 DCL commands that work with a very protected  > directory and the files in it. [...]c@ > we are looking writing it in C so that we can use the SYSTEM()B > function or one of the EXEC() functions.  We are planning to use7 > LIB$SPAWN from the PASCAL code to run this new image.a  D The SYSTEM and LIB$SPAWN calls create a subprocess, which generally C gets the default privileges for your username.  You can create and rE control the privileges of a subprocess by calling SYS$CREPRC instead. 
 --Stan Quaylei Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------C Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363  Fax: +1 614 868-1671o1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147 = Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.coma   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 16:05:50 +0100s, From: Adrian Birkett <aaa@notreallyhere.com>, Subject: Re: Elevate privileges in a program1 Message-ID: <3F21474E.328D7859@notreallyhere.com>    Mark,s  I You can only elevate a processes privilege if that user has the privilege"I authorized in UAF using the SYS$SETPRV service (ok, grandmother & eggs, ItG know). If your users only have minimum privileges authorized you have arI problem. You can possibly get round this by installing the image with the E required privileges which is the simplest and more manageable method.rD Other methods might include a seperate installed program reading and" writing to a mailbox of some sort.  J It is always good practise, in my mind, to deny privileges to users unlessF they can justify a reason for them. Simply using the phrase 'because IG need them' isn't good enough. If there is no way round it, and this appoE needs to use a privileged service, I'd use the installed image route.p   Adee   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jul 2003 09:43:59 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) , Subject: Re: Elevate privileges in a program3 Message-ID: <H2QYa+x5nlwY@eisner.encompasserve.org>'  c In article <5752ivskpr05bvsve4iikpnvscjlggbaee@4ax.com>, Mark Hemker <hemker@insightbb.com> writes:iG > I'm working with some of our programmers on a new product and we have C > run into a stumbling block with regards to needing privileges fornG > certain system function calls.  What we have is a PASCAL program that G > needs to be able to make several function calls where the code in the D > functions requires elevated privileges.  We looked at installing aG > shareable image with these functions, but as you know that won't work ? > We also looked into writing a User-Written System Service and'D > discovered that some of system service calls that we need can't be > used in a UWSS.i  G You would get a better quality answer by specifying the system services-F involved.  There are _many_ ways to introduce vulnerabilities to a VMSI system trying to do this sort of thing, and a User-Written System Servicea/ is a method of avoiding most of those problems.e  F > For this standalone image, we are looking writing it in C so that weG > can use the SYSTEM() function or one of the EXEC() functions.  We are G > planning to use LIB$SPAWN from the PASCAL code to run this new image.e@ > Is there a PASCAL equivalent to SYSTEM() or EXEC() or is there > something better?   H SYSTEM() and  EXEC() are creations of the C Runtime Library and are thus1 not going to be so stable as VMS system services.   D 95% of the time when people try something like this they introduce a security hole.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 11:33:20 -0400l* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>, Subject: Re: Elevate privileges in a program) Message-ID: <3F214DBE.3D19B39A@istop.com>n   Mark Hemker wrote: > G > I'm working with some of our programmers on a new product and we haveJC > run into a stumbling block with regards to needing privileges forw! > certain system function calls. "   Which privileges do you need ?  H If it is just a question of accessing files, then you could do it easilyK without privileges by using ACLs on the files to grant access. VMS also hasyJ the ability to grant an image and identifier, so anyone running that imageJ temporarily gains that identifier (providing access to certain files). But' this must be enable on the disk first. d  N Also, which DCL command do you require when you spawn a subprocess ? you could/ probably do this with system calls from Pascal.e  K Another possibility is for you to use user written system services and findsJ other ways to accomplish what you needed with those routines that can't be used in such a routine.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 16:03:15 GMTu" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG, Subject: Re: Elevate privileges in a program0 Message-ID: <00A2362D.36E20A35@SendSpamHere.ORG>  c In article <5752ivskpr05bvsve4iikpnvscjlggbaee@4ax.com>, Mark Hemker <hemker@insightbb.com> writes:lF >I'm working with some of our programmers on a new product and we haveB >run into a stumbling block with regards to needing privileges forF >certain system function calls.  What we have is a PASCAL program thatF >needs to be able to make several function calls where the code in theC >functions requires elevated privileges.  We looked at installing a F >shareable image with these functions, but as you know that won't work> >We also looked into writing a User-Written System Service andC >discovered that some of system service calls that we need can't bei >used in a UWSS.   Which service(s)?o   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMe            o5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" a   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jul 2003 11:02:21 -0500 From: briggs@encompasserve.org, Subject: Re: Elevate privileges in a program3 Message-ID: <SaEEHbXkEy+w@eisner.encompasserve.org>4  [ In article <3F20F213.12157.794F7A6@localhost>, "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com> writes:0- > On 25 Jul 2003 at 11:49, Mark Hemker wrote: ( >> What we have is a PASCAL program thatH >> needs to be able to make several function calls where the code in the* >> functions requires elevated privileges. > [...]y) >> This one function really just issues a A >> series of about 5 DCL commands that work with a very protectedd! >> directory and the files in it.n > [...]hA >> we are looking writing it in C so that we can use the SYSTEM()PC >> function or one of the EXEC() functions.  We are planning to use 8 >> LIB$SPAWN from the PASCAL code to run this new image. > F > The SYSTEM and LIB$SPAWN calls create a subprocess, which generally E > gets the default privileges for your username.  You can create and ,G > control the privileges of a subprocess by calling SYS$CREPRC instead.b  @ LIB$SPAWN takes the _current_ privileges of the parent and makes/ those the _authorized_ privileges of the child.S  D The child can then use SYS$SETPRV or $ SET PROCESS /PRIV to activate those latent privileges.  
 BE WARNED:  H Unless the parent is running from a very tightly controlled environment,F it is possible for a malicious user to hijack the enhanced privileges,F causing his own code to run with enhanced privilege in place of yours.  4 	*** LIB$SPAWN and SYSTEM are NOT privilege-safe ***  G The available attacks are varied and some are fairly subtle.  DefensivepB coding style in the spawned code is utterly irrelevant for some ofA the attacks.  The attacker already owns you before your code everr0 gets control (and your code never gets control).  A VERY careful and knowledgeable defensive coding in the parent can9? do a pretty good job of foiling these attacks.  A good start ishB to turn off propagation of DCL symbols and process logicals and toA check for translations of SYS$SYSTEM, SYS$SYSROOT, SYS$COMMON andeC LOGINOUT in LNM$FILE_DEV (to make sure those translations either doy? not exist or are at executive mode or better).  That will stilllF leave you vulnerable to some exploits of race conditions and you stillD need to code defensively in the subprocess (paying special attentionF to possible manipulations of the job logical name table).  If you thenH audit aggressively you have a good chance of catching the bad guy before he catches you.C  A I've never carefully investigated the feasibility of an attack onrB the mailbox communication stream between parent and spawned child.> So I don't know whether it is neccessary (or possible) to foil an attack targetted there.  E I think you're safe against command language table manipulation.  Then= subprocess gets a copy of the base command tables rather thanhD a copy of the parent's current command tables.  If I remember right. It's been a very long time.    	John Briggs   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 16:45:12 GMTh# From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) , Subject: Re: Elevate privileges in a program0 Message-ID: <s8dUa.890$cf5.665@news.cpqcorp.net>  c In article <5752ivskpr05bvsve4iikpnvscjlggbaee@4ax.com>, Mark Hemker <hemker@insightbb.com> writes:nF :I'm working with some of our programmers on a new product and we haveB :run into a stumbling block with regards to needing privileges forF :certain system function calls.  What we have is a PASCAL program thatF :needs to be able to make several function calls where the code in theC :functions requires elevated privileges.  We looked at installing asF :shareable image with these functions, but as you know that won't work  B   Correct.  (For those that are not familiar with shareable imagesA   and privileged shareable images, please see the shareable image.*   cookbook referenced in the OpenVMS FAQ.)  > :We also looked into writing a User-Written System Service andC :discovered that some of system service calls that we need can't bee :used in a UWSS.     I here assume you are seeing:w  D     NOSHRIMG,  privileged shareable image cannot have outbound calls  C   Everything referenced from a UWSS must be trusted code.  OutboundhF   references to untrusted (unprotected) shareable images are verboten.  B   See the support article (available via AskQ, see the OpenVMS FAQE   for pointers to AskQ) "SYSTEM-F-NOSHRIMG Error When A User-Written     System Service Is Called".  =   To find which shareables the code is referencing, try this:j  .     $ analyze/image/output=x.tmp imagename.exe2     $ search/exact/window=(0,20) x.tmp "Shareable"  A   SYS$PUBLIC_VECTORS and SYS$BASE_IMAGE are OK, and references topC   other shareable images will typically trigger the NOSHRIMG error. B   You can use LINK/NOSYSSHR to help capture and to eliminate these
   references.   G   The abovementioned information is similar to information in the AskQ nE   article: "NOSHRIMG Privileged Shareable Image Cannot Have Outbound h	   Calls".d    G :To take this in baby steps, we have cut back to just trying to get onetF :of the functions implemented.  This one function really just issues a? :series of about 5 DCL commands that work with a very protectedd! :directory and the files in it.     C   This particular use is trivially easy with subsystem identifiers,aA   and the subsystem identifiers avoid most of the risks that are  D   involved with the "big hammer" approach using enhanced privileges.  D :                             We are currently creating a standaloneF :image that issues the needed commands and I can install that with theG :necessary privileges.  I know this isn't the best solution because nowrF :anyone can run the image from DCL and get to the protected directory.     Everyone can use a UWSS, too.7  E :For this standalone image, we are looking writing it in C so that we:F :can use the SYSTEM() function or one of the EXEC() functions.  We areF :planning to use LIB$SPAWN from the PASCAL code to run this new image.  0   Ugh.  That's slow, and probably not necessary.  ? :Is there a PASCAL equivalent to SYSTEM() or EXEC() or is theret :something better?  B   system() is lib$spawn().   vfork() and exec*() are not somethingD   that you will likely want to tangle with, well, not unless you areC   or wish to become very familiar with the full and somewhat arcane B   meaning of this part of the C language and also with the OpenVMS>   implementation of the fork-related process-level processing.  : :If anyone has any suggestions, I would love to hear them.  H   Your current approach is a hugely BAD IDEA.  (No offense is intended.)  B   I would first look to subsystem identifiers -- depending on the A   particulars of the access(es) required -- and I would then lookf@   to using an installed image.  I would then look to the persona>   services, and then to DECnet or IP server tasks running withA   privileges, and then to an installed image.  I would not bother ?   to implement a UWSS that grants privileges -- I'd issue everyeB   user on the system the privilege(s) granted first, since that isA   exactly what the UWSS-based approach would effectively provide.   @   Adding privileges via user-written system service is certainly>   possible, but it tends to create monstrously-large security    holes.  ?   If you do start writing inner-mode code (as a UWSS requires),nA   you cannot call user-mode RTL routines nor the user-mode C RTL.n@   Most inner-mode code uses LINK/NOSYSSHJRRYSEXE, with /NOSYSSHRC   locking out the user-mode access and with /SYSEXE enabling accessrA   to the C kernel-mode RTL and to the kernel entry points; to then   SYS$BASE_IMAGE definitions.i  @   Related Ask The Wizard topics include (1547), (1073), (1719), B   (2524), (2774), (5172), (5639), (5895), (6056), (6363), (7368),     (7870), and (numerous) others.  (     http://www.hp.com/go/openvms/wizard/  E   I would also strongly recommend a trip through the OpenVMS SecuritysD   Manual -- whenever writing privileged-mode code, you must and haveE   to assume that your code will be specifically sought after and willeC   be specifically targeted by any nefarious-minded user or cracker.l    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.comV   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 12:32:10 -0500b/ From: Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com>e, Subject: Re: Elevate privileges in a program3 Message-ID: <3F21699A.3F5BC339@applied-synergy.com>    Mark Hemker wrote: > G > I'm working with some of our programmers on a new product and we have C > run into a stumbling block with regards to needing privileges foreG > certain system function calls.  What we have is a PASCAL program that G > needs to be able to make several function calls where the code in the D > functions requires elevated privileges.  We looked at installing aG > shareable image with these functions, but as you know that won't work ? > We also looked into writing a User-Written System Service andlD > discovered that some of system service calls that we need can't be > used in a UWSS.o > H > To take this in baby steps, we have cut back to just trying to get oneG > of the functions implemented.  This one function really just issues a @ > series of about 5 DCL commands that work with a very protectedH > directory and the files in it.  We are currently creating a standaloneG > image that issues the needed commands and I can install that with therH > necessary privileges.  I know this isn't the best solution because nowG > anyone can run the image from DCL and get to the protected directory.aF > For this standalone image, we are looking writing it in C so that weG > can use the SYSTEM() function or one of the EXEC() functions.  We aresG > planning to use LIB$SPAWN from the PASCAL code to run this new image.D@ > Is there a PASCAL equivalent to SYSTEM() or EXEC() or is there > something better?c > ; > If anyone has any suggestions, I would love to hear them.  > 8 > By the way, if you reply via private email, please use5 > mhemker@remember.com since that is my work address.     9 It's not clear what privileged operations you want to do.M  G You mention a "protected directory".  If accessing this is all you needi= to do, you probably don't need anything special in your code.t  F If you want to provide access to the "protected directory" to a set ofG users, you can easily do this with identifiers granted to the users andlD correctly setting the ownership and/or ACLs on the directory and its files.  F If you want to provide access to the "protected directory" to a set of= programs (whoever runs them), look into protected subsystems.l  D Of course, a combination of the two can be used so that only certain% users can run the protected programs.f  
 Good luck!  G -----------------------------------------------------------------------F$ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  C Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com     Fax: 817-237-3074M   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 09:28:06 -0500o1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>s Subject: Re: EMC on VMSg' Message-ID: <3F213E76.F2D8C738@fsi.net>u  E Iwas going to quit this thread, but Keith Parris makes some excellenteD points in another post in this thread, and I want to expand a bit on those.   Rob Young wrote: > [snip] >  EMC isn't violating a SCSIA< >         protocol, READL/WRITEL are optional SCSI commands:  E As regards the SCSI standards, yes; as regards OpenVMS, no - they are  mandatory for HBVS.3   http://216.239.39.104/search?q=cache:FVuzIrrdRcMJ:kuhub.cc.ku.edu/www/html/721final/5423/5423pro_010.html+shadowing+readl+writel&hl=en&lr=lang_en&ie=UTF-8 > H > Shadowing also provides full support for all SCSI devices and for someP > third-party SCSI devices. Volume Shadowing for OpenVMS can support third-partyK > devices that implement READL (read long) and WRITEL (write long) commandsiM > because phase II shadowing software uses the optional SCSI READL and WRITEL  > commands./ > J >         As Glenn Everhart has pointed out in the past, folks do a subset >         of SCSI anyhow:  > Y > http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=36954A48.C2E46AB7%40gce.com&oe=UTF-8&output=gplaind > H > "The problem with this approach of adding more baroque design featuresE > to SCSI is however that nobody implements all of SCSI. Disk vendorslG > in particular are well & truly squeezed in profits and system vendorsO; > must also decide whether to use SCSI at all, or use IDE."   E Therein lies the "zen of VMS" as relates to SCSI: If a device matchesaG VMS's interpretation/implementation of the SCSI standards, it will work D with some degree of reliability. If limitations are discovered, they4 must be accepted, or another product must be sought.  ? ...and as you yourself pointed out, EMC does not fall into thatt	 category.   D >         So to cry and whine about READL/WRITEL non-support is okayE >         I suppose.  But if it never comes into play, who cares?  Itj" >         is a Zen thing isn't it?  H No, it's a data integrity thing - which is what HBVS is (supposed to be) all about, no?   --   David J. Dachtera- dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jul 2003 11:16:34 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)a Subject: Re: EMC on VMS 3 Message-ID: <Puu+euaIG7zZ@eisner.encompasserve.org>m  [ In article <3F213E76.F2D8C738@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:   E >>         So to cry and whine about READL/WRITEL non-support is okayCF >>         I suppose.  But if it never comes into play, who cares?  It# >>         is a Zen thing isn't it?i > J > No, it's a data integrity thing - which is what HBVS is (supposed to be) > all about, no? >   = 	No.   Data integrity is the responsibility of the underlyingeC 	storage.  HBVS is all about availability.  If you write bad blocksD@ 	to an HBVS volume, you have bad blocks.  If you read bad blocks= 	from an HBVS volume (whether you wrote them, or they somehowt) 	became bad), that is not a happy moment.   < 	Numerous examples of HBVS RAS.  I have mine.  The 911 folks; 	have theirs (Commerze Bank).  Ed Wilts also comes to mind:u  e http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=UHrEbs%24k15p0%40eisner.encompasserve.org&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain   
 Ed writes:  F Absolutely.  You simply can not trust mirrored controllers to maintain8 the data as much as you can host-based volume shadowing.  B I have personally seen a case where a single bad drive caused BOTHG controllers in a dual-redundant configuration to crash.  The drive hungaC the SCSI bus.  When the first controller detected this, it tried totE reset the bus.  When it wouldn't reset, it assumed the controller was/G culprit and crashed itself, causing the drive to fail over to the otherJ? controller, which promptly crashed, until I finally intervened.l  G I've also seen a case where a controller pair disagreed on the state ofoE a 5 member RAID-5 set.  The entire set had to be restored from backupe tapes (36GB worth of data).   H I am currently using RAID-5 with redundant controllers within a cabinet,H and host-based shadow that to a RAID-5 set with redundant controllers inF another cabinet.  In about 2 weeks, that other cabinet will be located( in another building.  I value my data...   ----   				Robg   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 12:12:06 -0500n1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>n Subject: Re: EMC on VMSM' Message-ID: <3F2164E6.91ECB7DB@fsi.net>s   Rob Young wrote: > ] > In article <3F213E76.F2D8C738@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:o > G > >>         So to cry and whine about READL/WRITEL non-support is okayyH > >>         I suppose.  But if it never comes into play, who cares?  It% > >>         is a Zen thing isn't it?  > >-L > > No, it's a data integrity thing - which is what HBVS is (supposed to be) > > all about, no? > >i > F >         No.   Data integrity is the responsibility of the underlying4 >         storage.  HBVS is all about availability.   E Try again. The two are not mutually exclusive, and HBVS includes dataeF integrity features - like dropping a member when a bad block cannot be flagged as such.   > If you write bad blocks I >         to an HBVS volume, you have bad blocks.  If you read bad blockseF >         from an HBVS volume (whether you wrote them, or they somehow2 >         became bad), that is not a happy moment.  B ...which is why HBVS drops members when it can't setthe approriate4 forced error flags. Starting to get the picture now?  E >         Numerous examples of HBVS RAS.  I have mine.  The 911 folkssD >         have theirs (Commerze Bank).  Ed Wilts also comes to mind: > g > http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=UHrEbs%24k15p0%40eisner.encompasserve.org&oe=UTF-8&output=gplainh >  > Ed writes: > H > Absolutely.  You simply can not trust mirrored controllers to maintain: > the data as much as you can host-based volume shadowing.   Seems to contradict you.  D > I have personally seen a case where a single bad drive caused BOTHI > controllers in a dual-redundant configuration to crash.  The drive hung E > the SCSI bus.  When the first controller detected this, it tried toeG > reset the bus.  When it wouldn't reset, it assumed the controller was I > culprit and crashed itself, causing the drive to fail over to the othergA > controller, which promptly crashed, until I finally intervened.   F That's a firmware problem, not an HBVS issue. HBVS could have been the
 savior there.a  I > I've also seen a case where a controller pair disagreed on the state of7G > a 5 member RAID-5 set.  The entire set had to be restored from backupG > tapes (36GB worth of data).  > J > I am currently using RAID-5 with redundant controllers within a cabinet,J > and host-based shadow that to a RAID-5 set with redundant controllers inH > another cabinet.  In about 2 weeks, that other cabinet will be located* > in another building.  I value my data...  B ...as do I, which is why I won't implement a solution that OpenVMS# Engineering and HBVS don't support.    End of discussion.   -- e David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemse http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 11:24:58 +0100s" From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>, Subject: Re: Encompass Members - Please Help' Message-ID: <3F21057A.1080600@spam.com>n   Dale E. Coy wrote:K > I want to run for election to the Encompass Board of Directors this year.3D > I have been an active member of DECUS/Encompass for over 20 years. > N > If you are a concerned Encompass member, please send the following petition: ../..l   Dale,s  I I want to run for election to the Encompass Board of Directors this year S too.B I have been an active member of DECUS/Encompass for over 22 years. I have applied.-   I never got any answer.aC Forget about DECUS/Encompass/HP-Interex, it does no bring $$ to HP.  (personal opinion)   D.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 10:56:48 GMT3* From: "Mark Buda" <buda_NO@SPAM.yahoo.com>, Subject: Re: Encompass Members - Please Help= Message-ID: <Q18Ua.41000$8g6.1377213@news1.news.adelphia.net>.  % I just FAX'd in my paperwork for you.-   --    
 Sincerely,	 Mark Buda:    2 "Dale E. Coy" <dalecoy@spinn.net> wrote in message) news:vi10oon4ubaoa9@corp.supernews.com...AK > I want to run for election to the Encompass Board of Directors this year.:D > I have been an active member of DECUS/Encompass for over 20 years. >eD > If you are a concerned Encompass member, please send the following	 petition:  >u > -----------------oK > As a member in good standing of Encompass, I nominate Dale E. Coy, member 4 > 166993, for the 2004 Encompass Board of Directors. >1' >     Signed (and printed if necessary)0
 >     Date- >     Encompass member number or Company Namer > -----------------  > D > The petition must get to Encompass by August 8.  It must be either3 > postal-mailed or faxed to Encompass headquarters.o6 > E-mail is not allowed for this purpose by Encompass. >. >2 > Encompass US HeadquartersZ' > 401 North Michigan Avenue, 22nd Floora > Chicago, IL 606118 >0 > fax.312-673-4609 >tF > Thanks.  I've tried to be brief.  I apologize if you are bothered by > multiple copiescJ > of this request.  If you have questions, either ask here or e-mail to me at > dalecoy@spinn.net  >f >  Dalev >. >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 08:48:56 -0600 ' From: "Dale E. Coy" <dalecoy@spinn.net> , Subject: Re: Encompass Members - Please Help/ Message-ID: <vi2gquebub0r9a@corp.supernews.com>l  / "Didier Morandi" <no@spam.com> wrote in messageo! news:3F21057A.1080600@spam.com...,   >  > Dale,n >vJ > I want to run for election to the Encompass Board of Directors this year > too.D > I have been an active member of DECUS/Encompass for over 22 years. > I have applied.  >' > I never got any answer.C  K That is unfortunate.  Did you try to find out why you got no answer to yourd application?  E > Forget about DECUS/Encompass/HP-Interex, it does no bring $$ to HP.  > (personal opinion) >  > D. >   K In my opinion, when an organization (Encompass, Interex, whatever) that hasG beenL useful to its members in the past -- no longer APPEARS to be useful -- there are severalm> possible approaches.  One is to forget about the organization.  J Another way is to try to help the organization change that appearance.  Of course, thatE can take a lot of work by volunteers, including those on the Board of0
 Directors.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 18:57:05 +0100m" From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>, Subject: Re: Encompass Members - Please Help' Message-ID: <3F216F71.5010804@spam.com>t   Dale E. Coy wrote:K In my opinion, when an organization (Encompass, Interex, whatever) that hash > beenN > useful to its members in the past -- no longer APPEARS to be useful -- there
 > are severalc@ > possible approaches.  One is to forget about the organization. > L > Another way is to try to help the organization change that appearance.  Of > course, thatG > can take a lot of work by volunteers, including those on the Board ofw > Directors.   This is why I did :-)    D.   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jul 2003 04:32:46 -0700' From: hari@transcomm.uk.com (HariHaran)l> Subject: Re: Help required to run Java applications in OpenVMS= Message-ID: <2de080f3.0307250332.45a4ebe4@posting.google.com>n   Thanks for your help.   @ This probelem was caused because, the owner ship of the file was> different from the user name that used to login to the system.A I changed the owner of the java and class file using Set Security- command.% Now all the aplications are in place.E   Regards, Hari   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 12:24:35 +0200 C From: "Micha von Grotthuss" <xxxgrotthussnospam@polantispamlot.pl>4@ Subject: How to operate MSL5000 tape library from OpenVMS prompt- Message-ID: <bfr0h2$c55$1@SunSITE.icm.edu.pl>$   Hi all,D4 I have two DS25 machines set up together in cluster.F Machines are connected to storagework SAN swicth 8-EL with fiber optic cable.K Storagework SAN switch is connected to hp network storage router m2404 withu fiber optic cable.I To this storage router is also connected with a SCSI cable a MSL5000 tape5 library with two DLT streamers.l My questions are:o  G 1. What are the name of DLT streamers (normal SCSI streamer name is forh example MKC200) displayed by
 $ show devicee command.  F 2. Is it possible to operate tape library from OpenVMS command prompt.. Are there any commands or additional software.+ I need commands performing operations like:  - insert tape #4 in streamer #0o  - initialize tape in streamer #0" - use cleaning tape in streamer #1 etc.   Up to now I tried: SYSMAN> io find_wwid SYSMAN> io autoconfigure  ! but I don't know what to do more.s  C Both storage router and SAN switch seem to be configured correctly.    Please help, Michal   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 06:58:00 -0400 " From: "Hal Kuff" <kuff@tessco.com>D Subject: Re: How to operate MSL5000 tape library from OpenVMS prompt- Message-ID: <bfr2hc$ge4@library1.airnews.net>e  &     I beleive you are looking for this& http://www.support.compaq.com/sms/mru/    F "Micha von Grotthuss" <xxxgrotthussnospam@polantispamlot.pl> wrote in/ message news:bfr0h2$c55$1@SunSITE.icm.edu.pl...p	 > Hi all,o6 > I have two DS25 machines set up together in cluster.H > Machines are connected to storagework SAN swicth 8-EL with fiber optic > cable.H > Storagework SAN switch is connected to hp network storage router m2404 with > fiber optic cable.K > To this storage router is also connected with a SCSI cable a MSL5000 tape ! > library with two DLT streamers.y > My questions are:r > I > 1. What are the name of DLT streamers (normal SCSI streamer name is fort > example MKC200) displayed by > $ show device'
 > command. > H > 2. Is it possible to operate tape library from OpenVMS command prompt.0 > Are there any commands or additional software.- > I need commands performing operations like: ! > - insert tape #4 in streamer #0p" > - initialize tape in streamer #0$ > - use cleaning tape in streamer #1 > etc. >g > Up to now I tried: > SYSMAN> io find_wwid > SYSMAN> io autoconfigure > # > but I don't know what to do more.s >oE > Both storage router and SAN switch seem to be configured correctly.o >t > Please help, > Michal >d >n   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jul 2003 07:34:55 -0700% From: Bart.Zorn@xs4all.nl (Bart Zorn)oD Subject: Re: How to operate MSL5000 tape library from OpenVMS prompt< Message-ID: <a98cd882.0307250634.4a9f214@posting.google.com>  x "Micha von Grotthuss" <xxxgrotthussnospam@polantispamlot.pl> wrote in message news:<bfr0h2$c55$1@SunSITE.icm.edu.pl>...	 > Hi all,a6 > I have two DS25 machines set up together in cluster.H > Machines are connected to storagework SAN swicth 8-EL with fiber optic > cable.M > Storagework SAN switch is connected to hp network storage router m2404 withu > fiber optic cable.K > To this storage router is also connected with a SCSI cable a MSL5000 tape9! > library with two DLT streamers.a > My questions are:w > I > 1. What are the name of DLT streamers (normal SCSI streamer name is forv > example MKC200) displayed by > $ show devicec
 > command. > H > 2. Is it possible to operate tape library from OpenVMS command prompt.0 > Are there any commands or additional software.- > I need commands performing operations like: ! > - insert tape #4 in streamer #0 " > - initialize tape in streamer #0$ > - use cleaning tape in streamer #1 > etc. >  > Up to now I tried: > SYSMAN> io find_wwid > SYSMAN> io autoconfigure > # > but I don't know what to do more.t > E > Both storage router and SAN switch seem to be configured correctly.n >  > Please help, > Michal    A If everything is working correctly, you should have the following-8 devices after you have done the SYSMAN IO AUTOCOFIGURE :   $2$MGA0: $2$MGA1:   $2$GGA0:  A The first two are the tapedrives, the latter is the robot device.   B Next, install the ROBOT016 software; be sure that you have version 1.6.  D When finished the command HELP ROBOT should help you further on your way.   Hope this helps,  	 Bart Zornh   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 10:06:01 -050041 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> D Subject: Re: How to operate MSL5000 tape library from OpenVMS prompt' Message-ID: <3F214759.D3204A2D@fsi.net>i   "Micha von Grotthuss" wrote:n > 	 > Hi all,e6 > I have two DS25 machines set up together in cluster.H > Machines are connected to storagework SAN swicth 8-EL with fiber optic > cable.M > Storagework SAN switch is connected to hp network storage router m2404 withi > fiber optic cable.K > To this storage router is also connected with a SCSI cable a MSL5000 tapel! > library with two DLT streamers.d > My questions are:r > I > 1. What are the name of DLT streamers (normal SCSI streamer name is forI > example MKC200) displayed by > $ show devicey
 > command. >  > Up to now I tried: > SYSMAN> io find_wwid > SYSMAN> io autoconfigure > # > but I don't know what to do more.- > E > Both storage router and SAN switch seem to be configured correctly.r  A You're looking for MG devices - $2$MGAn: actually. They're always-3 ALLOCLASS 2. Hard-coded in the low-levels, I think.t  G Unit numbers are assigned by the system. So, you may need to hunt a bitg? to find which device is which. Once you have that, you can edit 8 SYS$SYSTEM:SYS$DEVICES.DAT and change them, then reboot.  H > 2. Is it possible to operate tape library from OpenVMS command prompt.0 > Are there any commands or additional software.- > I need commands performing operations like: ! > - insert tape #4 in streamer #0e" > - initialize tape in streamer #0$ > - use cleaning tape in streamer #1 > etc.  H If not SLS or ABS, then at the very least you're looking for Media Robot& Utility (MRU) as Hal Kuff pointed out.   --   David J. Dachterai dba DJE Systemsn http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/r   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 10:30:32 GMTa* From: "Mark Buda" <buda_NO@SPAM.yahoo.com>N Subject: Re: IDC reports PC Market Share: Dell over HP by a nose; both pulling= Message-ID: <cF7Ua.40996$8g6.1367620@news1.news.adelphia.net>t  K "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>s; wrote in message news:bfopsj$ff8$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com...t > Rob Young wrote:J > > In article <bfmadq$hlg$2@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK; Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes:  > >m > >>Rob Young wrote: > >  > > B > >>Right so in the same period the bits of HP that you care aboutB > >>lost 472 million dollars despite bunging their R&D budget into> > >>a central pot funded by printing and Sun lost 292 million. > >> > >  > >zD > > Ah, and there's the rub Andrew.  Sun has Java and the associated@ > > Java revenue stream to prop it up.  Ah... okay, a joke.  But? > > as Scott talks about growth and futures he declares Sun therG > > second largest software house (not so, IBM is that owner).  Nothingp > > to prop Sun up.t > >yA > > Face it - 9 straight quarters of declining revenue highlightss > > a company in decline.n > >e > >e >o1 > Odd, Sun's revenue last quarter was higher thanC7 > it was the previous quarter and the previous quarterst0 > revenues were higher than the one before that.  5 > Face it that isn't 9 straight quarters of decliningi
 > revenue.  A http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/030722/markets_stocks_afterthebell_2.htmlo  D Network computer maker Sun Microsystems Inc. (NasdaqNM:SUNW - News),J however, fell after it reported a slight quarterly profit but said revenueK fell for the ninth consecutive quarter on weak demand for computer servers.p  * Now who do we believe?  Andrew or Reuters?   This is a tough decision!i  L The media says 9 quarters with Scott saying they have a lot of work ahead of them   Let read on:   http://www.marketwatch.com/news/yhoo/story.asp?source=blq/yhoo&siteid=yhoo&dist=yhoo&guid=%7B8AA11ACD%2D2B40%2D4C23%2D8CAD%2D63F657C775EA%7D  J We read that investors are very concerned and their actions show they have lost faith in SUN!F >By the time of the closing bell, Sun Micro shares (SUNW: news, chart,G profile) had fallen 92 cents to close at $3.85 and were the most activeW< stock in the nation, with 239 million shares changing hands.  $ Sun Micro slammed after profits drop  L >Revenue totaled $2.98 billion, a 13 percent decrease from the $3.42 billion recorded a year ago.  L OUCH - that is not good!  Oh yes, I forgot.  Andrew says that we are lookingL at the wrong numbers.  Java made money and servers lost it or something like	 that! :-)d  I >McCarthy reiterated his "underperform" rating, took down his 2004 profit E estimates on Sun's stock to 4 cents a share, and expressed an ominous  outlook for the company.   SUN IS IN TROUBLE...  L >"We've had a pretty tough year. We didn't grow the business," McNealy said.  4 Not a good sign...  Fits in with the profit picture!  G >Sun's losses ballooned from the $587 million, or 18 cents per share it K reported in its 2002 fiscal year, and sales fell almost 9 percent to $11.43a billion from $12.5 billion.    Not a good sign...  % OK, Dr. FUD, Start spinning your web!    mark   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 10:35:52 GMTn* From: "Mark Buda" <buda_NO@SPAM.yahoo.com>N Subject: Re: IDC reports PC Market Share: Dell over HP by a nose; both pulling= Message-ID: <cK7Ua.40997$8g6.1368916@news1.news.adelphia.net>d  D "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> wrote in message* news:D7VTa.823$Vj4.713@news.cpqcorp.net... > % > "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy"t' <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> = > wrote in message news:bfopsj$ff8$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com...e > > Rob Young wrote: >e > > > C > > > Face it - 9 straight quarters of declining revenue highlightsd > > > a company in decline.o > > >p > > >b > >l3 > > Odd, Sun's revenue last quarter was higher thane9 > > it was the previous quarter and the previous quarterse2 > > revenues were higher than the one before that. > >S7 > > Face it that isn't 9 straight quarters of decliningp > > revenue. > >R >:I > Let me help you.  Go to MSNBC, click on money, ask for a quote on SUNW,, andi7 > the click on Financials.  Takes all of a few seconds.i >eI > Here is the revenue for 01, 02, and 03 (I think the fiscal year ends in. > June): >SG > [I hope this cut & paste works... but if you have problems just go toa >dL http://moneycentral.msn.com/investor/invsub/results/hilite.asp?Symbol=SUNW ] >e > < >                         03                02            01 >o- >             1st Qtr 2,747.0 2,861.0 5,045.0r- >             2nd Qtr 2,915.0 3,108.0 5,115.0k- >             3rd Qtr 2,790.0 3,107.0 4,095.09- >             4th Qtr 2,982.0 3,420.0 3,995.0.. >             Total 11,434.0 12,496.0 18,250.0 >s >oE >       If you look across each quarter from right to left (oldest toY newest),F > You will see that in each quarter for the last 3 years - revenue hasI > declined.  In each year, revenue has increased quarter-to-quarter - butt thatL > is the normal buying cycles.  Sun has not managed to have a single quarterI > in the last 3 years where revenue has increased from the previous year,  andu7 > total annual revenues are almost $7 billion US lower.i >g' >       Earnings... are also a problem:h > 3 >                  FY (06/03) FY (06/02) FY (06/01)r/ >                   1st Qtr -$0.04 -$0.06 $0.15o/ >                   2nd Qtr -$0.72 -$0.13 $0.12n. >                   3rd Qtr $0.00 -$0.01 $0.04. >                   4th Qtr $0.00 $0.02 -$0.02- >                   Total -$0.76 -$0.18 $0.29  >m >       Ohh dear.m >p2 > > Ohh dear, you can't be relied on to hype Alpha( > > You can't be relied on to hype IA-644 > > and now you can't be relied on to read a balance
 > > sheet. > >y >n > So what did he miss?    J Fred, you are being so unfair to our little friend.  You are posting factsK and we KNOW Dr. FUD does not like facts, especially when used in context tom their fullest degree.0  L The questions is, "Is he man enough to note that he did not tell the truth?"  L Ohh dear, Oooohhh dear, what will little Red FUDding Hood do with the facts.6 Will the BIG BAD WOLF (truth) blow his house down? :-)   mark   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 09:35:06 -0500l1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>tN Subject: Re: IDC reports PC Market Share: Dell over HP by a nose; both pulling' Message-ID: <3F21401A.FD9DCB8C@fsi.net>s   Mark Buda wrote: > [snip]N > Ohh dear, Oooohhh dear, what will little Red FUDding Hood do with the facts.8 > Will the BIG BAD WOLF (truth) blow his house down? :-)  . I *LOVE* it! Mark, *YOU* are cunning linguist!   -- o David J. Dachteran dba DJE Systems) http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 09:40:21 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> N Subject: Re: IDC reports PC Market Share: Dell over HP by a nose; both pulling' Message-ID: <3F214155.AA162843@fsi.net>    Mark Buda wrote: > [snip]' > OK, Dr. FUD, Start spinning your web!p   OOOHHH!!! Spin... (WW)web...   Double pun! Uxcellent, dude!   --   David J. DachteraH dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/r   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 15:17:35 GMTe9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>SN Subject: Re: IDC reports PC Market Share: Dell over HP by a nose; both pulling0 Message-ID: <jSbUa.873$3d5.673@news.cpqcorp.net>  7 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in messagee# news:3F204808.9B47BDE9@istop.com...f > Fred Kleinsorge wrote:K > > Let me help you.  Go to MSNBC, click on money, ask for a quote on SUNW,t and 9 > > the click on Financials.  Takes all of a few seconds.  >eC > What do the first two letters of MSNBC stand for ? And your trust  Microsoft to+ > give you accurate information about Sun ?D >c! > :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)c >d  I Yeah, I see the smileys.  But I found the MSNBC site in this case to havesH the simplest tables without having to do too much searching for what you5 want...  something PO'ed me a while back about cnnfn.e   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 16:57:28 GMTe9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>eY Subject: Re: IDC reports PC Market Share: Dell over HP by a nose; both pulling  away from 0 Message-ID: <YjdUa.893$4j5.753@news.cpqcorp.net>  7 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in messagev# news:3F214C44.B2C9977E@istop.com...t > Mark Buda wrote:J > > Repeat after me, "SUN LOST OVER 2 BILLION DOLLARS THIS QUARTER AND WAS WELL! > > BELOW ANALYSTS EXPECTATIONS!"  >a" > Mark Buda wrote in another post:G > >Network computer maker Sun Microsystems Inc. (NasdaqNM:SUNW - News),eE > >however, fell after it reported a slight quarterly profit but saidh revenuemE > >fell for the ninth consecutive quarter on weak demand for computern servers. > - > >Now who do we believe?  Andrew or Reuters?l >oI > Well, who do you believe, Mark Buda #1 who says Sun lost 2 billion thishJ > quarter, or Mark Buda #2 who admits Sun made a slight quarterly profit ? >   L Mark is incorrect.  Rounded to cents per share, Sun made $0.00 this quarter.B For the *year* Sun lost $2,378,000 dollars (or .76 cents a share).  E The disturbing long term trend is that in 1999 they had revenue $11.7oJ billion, and made $1 billion in profit.  In 2000, with $15.7 billion, theyL made $1.8 billion in profit.  In 2001 with $18.3 billion, profit slid by 50%L to $927 million.  In 2002 they slid to $12.5 billion, and lost $587 million.I And today they are back to about 1999 revenue of $11.4 billion and lost ab cool $2.4 billion.  J Which means that they expanded to their peak in 2001, but have not reducedF their fixed costs or been able to hold their profit margins as revenue	 declined.w  L > If HP focused more on marketing VMS and Alpha instead of FUDding SUN, thenL > perhaps HP and VMS would be doing MUCH MUCH better.  If Sun were in such a badoL > shape, then HP wouldn't bother constantly attacking its financials because HP > wouldn't see it as a threath.n    "Constantly"?  I don't think so.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 17:03:57 GMT 9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>eY Subject: Re: IDC reports PC Market Share: Dell over HP by a nose; both pulling  away from 0 Message-ID: <1qdUa.894$Kh5.304@news.cpqcorp.net>  H Ooops.  Sorry.   Missed some digits.  Make that lost $2,378,000,000 (2.4	 billion).   D "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> wrote in message* news:YjdUa.893$4j5.753@news.cpqcorp.net... >t9 > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in messagep% > news:3F214C44.B2C9977E@istop.com...  > > Mark Buda wrote:L > > > Repeat after me, "SUN LOST OVER 2 BILLION DOLLARS THIS QUARTER AND WAS > WELL# > > > BELOW ANALYSTS EXPECTATIONS!"  > >-$ > > Mark Buda wrote in another post:I > > >Network computer maker Sun Microsystems Inc. (NasdaqNM:SUNW - News),VG > > >however, fell after it reported a slight quarterly profit but saide	 > revenueiG > > >fell for the ninth consecutive quarter on weak demand for computerE
 > servers. > >[/ > > >Now who do we believe?  Andrew or Reuters?a > >rK > > Well, who do you believe, Mark Buda #1 who says Sun lost 2 billion thismL > > quarter, or Mark Buda #2 who admits Sun made a slight quarterly profit ? > >p >dE > Mark is incorrect.  Rounded to cents per share, Sun made $0.00 thisr quarter.D > For the *year* Sun lost $2,378,000 dollars (or .76 cents a share). >dG > The disturbing long term trend is that in 1999 they had revenue $11.7aL > billion, and made $1 billion in profit.  In 2000, with $15.7 billion, theyJ > made $1.8 billion in profit.  In 2001 with $18.3 billion, profit slid by 50% E > to $927 million.  In 2002 they slid to $12.5 billion, and lost $587h million.K > And today they are back to about 1999 revenue of $11.4 billion and lost ac > cool $2.4 billion. >mL > Which means that they expanded to their peak in 2001, but have not reducedH > their fixed costs or been able to hold their profit margins as revenue > declined.d >TI > > If HP focused more on marketing VMS and Alpha instead of FUDding SUN,a thenL > > perhaps HP and VMS would be doing MUCH MUCH better.  If Sun were in such an > badnF > > shape, then HP wouldn't bother constantly attacking its financials because  > HP! > > wouldn't see it as a threath.t >e" > "Constantly"?  I don't think so. >n >n >e >a   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 10:19:29 GMTm* From: "Mark Buda" <buda_NO@SPAM.yahoo.com>Y Subject: Re: IDC reports PC Market Share: Dell over HP by a nose; both pulling away from  = Message-ID: <Ru7Ua.40995$8g6.1364247@news1.news.adelphia.net>s  K "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>r; wrote in message news:bfmadq$hlg$2@new-usenet.uk.sun.com...  > Rob Young wrote:K > > In article <Gc6Ta.10472$8g6.62275@news1.news.adelphia.net>, "Mark Buda"e  <buda_NO@SPAM.yahoo.com> writes: > >t' > >>"Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy"t' <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>c? > >>wrote in message news:bfh172$m94$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com...o > >>/ > >>>UNIX number one                        NOT / > >>>PC business returning to profitability NOT / > >>>Ditto Enterprise Division              NOTt/ > >>>Merger complete                        NOTn/ > >>>Its good to be second                  NOTi > >>. > >>It's good to own Sun stock             NOT > >e > >eF > > NOT - is right.  And how telling a comment prior to Sun financials > > at close of day. > >c< > > Again, Sun is quickly approaching Apple status regarding > > relevancy - not very:a > > E > > http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/030722/markets_stocks_afterthebell_2.html- > >-H > > Network computer maker Sun Microsystems Inc. (NasdaqNM:SUNW - News), however,J > > fell after it reported a slight quarterly profit but said revenue fell for the-B > > ninth consecutive quarter on weak demand for computer servers. > >aE > > Its shares slipped to $4.31 in the extended session from $4.77 at3	 Tuesday's8
 > > close. > >s > > Rob  > >t >  >e@ > Right so in the same period the bits of HP that you care about@ > lost 472 million dollars despite bunging their R&D budget into< > a central pot funded by printing and Sun lost 292 million. >t7 > Nice try Rob but another abject failure on your part.r   Hmmm...  Dr. FUD I presume...g  ; SUN lost money this quarter.  HP made money this quarter...6  K Only Dr. FUD could twist it like a butterfly to say that Sun lost less than5 HP.o  5 Come on, compare apples to apples and tell the truth.8  K Repeat after me, "SUN LOST OVER 2 BILLION DOLLARS THIS QUARTER AND WAS WELL  BELOW ANALYSTS EXPECTATIONS!"u   SUN IS IN TROUBLE!   mark   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 11:27:02 -0400w* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>Y Subject: Re: IDC reports PC Market Share: Dell over HP by a nose; both pulling away from e) Message-ID: <3F214C44.B2C9977E@istop.com>l   Mark Buda wrote:M > Repeat after me, "SUN LOST OVER 2 BILLION DOLLARS THIS QUARTER AND WAS WELL4 > BELOW ANALYSTS EXPECTATIONS!"l    Mark Buda wrote in another post:E >Network computer maker Sun Microsystems Inc. (NasdaqNM:SUNW - News),aK >however, fell after it reported a slight quarterly profit but said revenueuL >fell for the ninth consecutive quarter on weak demand for computer servers.  + >Now who do we believe?  Andrew or Reuters?"  G Well, who do you believe, Mark Buda #1 who says Sun lost 2 billion thisiH quarter, or Mark Buda #2 who admits Sun made a slight quarterly profit ?  J If HP focused more on marketing VMS and Alpha instead of FUDding SUN, thenN perhaps HP and VMS would be doing MUCH MUCH better.  If Sun were in such a badM shape, then HP wouldn't bother constantly attacking its financials because HPs wouldn't see it as a threath.p   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jul 2003 06:10:57 -0500B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)P Subject: RE: Legal status of EVE source code ?, was: RE: Creating an EVE o	r TPU3 Message-ID: <NCo3hOdm3KX4@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  x In article <hLVRz$jsw9Dw@eisner.encompasserve.org>, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) writes: > O > The reason that I was not sure was that, because you are encouraged to modifyDP > EVE for your own needs, and are given the source code so that you _can_ modifyM > it (unlike everything else in VMS unless you buy a source license), whetheryP > that means that all the usual restrictions on copying source code would apply. > N > I thought that the usual restrictions would still apply, but was not sure so > hence the question.r > N > The implication is that a hobbyist could not create an implementation of TPU) > on Linux and then run EVE on top of it.u >   K It would be nice to get a ruling one way or another from HP on this so thattJ anybody considering a Linux TPU implementation in the future would know if, they could take and use the EVE source code.  K I don't think that you can, but who would be the best person in HP to emailR@ in order to get HP's position on this so that we know for sure ?   Simon.   -- sB Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       L VMS advocate: One who makes a Mac advocate look like a beginner at advocacy.   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jul 2003 06:32:23 -0500B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)O Subject: Re: Legal status of EVE source code ?, was: RE: Creating an EVE or TPU 3 Message-ID: <obNiAqe7ErKs@eisner.encompasserve.org>s  q In article <j1bJhFCymVeP@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:r > @ >    What if a/Soft comes up with a hobbyist license for nu/TPU? >   * I thought that EVE would not run under it.  I It also does not address the question of if you would actually be allowedi5 to run EVE under it if it was capable of running EVE.h  ! Thanks for the suggestion though.b   Simon.   -- GB Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       L VMS advocate: One who makes a Mac advocate look like a beginner at advocacy.   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jul 2003 08:14:46 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)tO Subject: Re: Legal status of EVE source code ?, was: RE: Creating an EVE or TPU03 Message-ID: <BQs$Tm5V6Tc3@eisner.encompasserve.org>.  x In article <obNiAqe7ErKs@eisner.encompasserve.org>, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) writes:s > In article <j1bJhFCymVeP@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:e >> tA >>    What if a/Soft comes up with a hobbyist license for nu/TPU?  >> v > , > I thought that EVE would not run under it.  D    EVE does run under it and so did my 2000 lines of TPU code when IE    had it on HP-UX (long before Compaq bought DEC).  What didn't work D    well was mapping my keypad on HP's keyboards.  I don't know what H    licensing arangement a/Soft made with DEC.  Last time I looked, they     were still selling nu/TPU.H   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 09:56:03 -0500b1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>b; Subject: Re: Migrate obsolete VAX/VMS SW to OpenVMS Itanium ' Message-ID: <3F214503.E53F9C3A@fsi.net>a   "Stanley F. Quayle" wrote: > 3 > On 24 Jul 2003 at 19:22, David J. Dachtera wrote:nK > > Charon-VAX for OpenVMS-I64 (when/if it appears) may be of some value to  > > some (but likely not all). > " > It's more a "when" than an "if". > F > > A VAX -> I64 (direct) binary translator may have an audience also, > > albeit somewhat limited. > C > There won't be one of those.  But HP has many times said that themB > Alpha -> IA-64 translator will support translated (VAX -> Alpha)A > images.  That would be equivalent (still not 100% coverage, butr > nothing is).  G See my response to Didier. Getting that last 5% on board will be key toe regrowing the OpenVMS market.a  E Kind of like putting out 95% of a fire. The remaining 5% can rekindlel0 and once again you have a roaring conflagration.   -- e David J. Dachterab dba DJE Systemss http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/n   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jul 2003 04:42:15 -0700( From: catsoup57@hotmail.com (Chris Hale) Subject: MySQL on VMS7.1< Message-ID: <8155f86.0307250342.37773cac@posting.google.com>   Hi,B  F Has anyone got an Alpha VMS 7.1 system accessing a Unix MySQL database system ?  & In other words a MySQL VMS 7.1 client.  F Ive seen the MySQL client for VMS 7.2 (mysql-3,22,25-clients-vms), butA this wont work on 7.1 systems. (Conflicting library versions) Andn4 without the source there is no option of porting it.  
 Any ideas?   Chris.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 08:43:02 +0200t5 From: "Philippe Bocher" <philippe.bocher@euriware.fr> ) Subject: Re: NEWBIE: DECWindows Bit Depthw& Message-ID: <3f20cf9e$1@news.euriware>  : "Tom Rymes" <tomnews@rymes.net> a crit dans le message de? news:tomnews-C23664.22100224072003@news.comcast.giganews.com...y > Hi folks,f >iI > After much wind and fury, out trusty MicroVAX 3100/95 has been replaced-  > by a refurbed AS DS20. Woohoo! >,J > I have the machine start DECWindows on startup and all is well. However,E > I would like to change the Bit depth and/or resolution. My only X11cA > experience is with Linux, so I have no idea how to do this. AnyoI > suggestions (without getting into the merits of running DECWindows on aUH > server machine...) ? I have searched on google, google groups, and the > VMS Docs, but to no avail....t >oI > The box in question is an AlphaServer DS-20 with an Elsa-Gloria Synergyf+ > card. The system is running OpenVMS 7.3-1a >v > Any help appreciated.... >  >r > Thank you, >e > Tomd Hello,  .     edit sys$manager:decw$device_config_gz.com   modify what you want...r       @decw$startup init     @decw$startup restart-   HTH- Philippe   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 08:13:32 -0400.# From: Tom Rymes <tomnews@rymes.net>m) Subject: Re: NEWBIE: DECWindows Bit Depth0E Message-ID: <tomnews-2C6F3C.08133125072003@news.comcast.giganews.com>f  & In article <3f20cf9e$1@news.euriware>,7  "Philippe Bocher" <philippe.bocher@euriware.fr> wrote:   < > "Tom Rymes" <tomnews@rymes.net> a crit dans le message deA > news:tomnews-C23664.22100224072003@news.comcast.giganews.com...b
 > > Hi folks,e > >o   [snip]   > > Any help appreciated.... > >y > >e > > Thank you, > >s > > Tomp > Hello, > 0 >     edit sys$manager:decw$device_config_gz.com >  > modify what you want...o >  >     @decw$startup init >     @decw$startup restart  >  > HTHc
 > Philippe  4 Thank you! I'll give it a try once I get to work....     Tom    ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jul 2003 07:43:36 -0700% From: Bart.Zorn@xs4all.nl (Bart Zorn)E) Subject: Re: NEWBIE: DECWindows Bit Depth = Message-ID: <a98cd882.0307250643.72c835d4@posting.google.com>   c "Philippe Bocher" <philippe.bocher@euriware.fr> wrote in message news:<3f20cf9e$1@news.euriware>...A< > "Tom Rymes" <tomnews@rymes.net> a crit dans le message deA > news:tomnews-C23664.22100224072003@news.comcast.giganews.com...b
 > > Hi folks,u > >eK > > After much wind and fury, out trusty MicroVAX 3100/95 has been replacedl" > > by a refurbed AS DS20. Woohoo! > >DL > > I have the machine start DECWindows on startup and all is well. However,G > > I would like to change the Bit depth and/or resolution. My only X11aC > > experience is with Linux, so I have no idea how to do this. AnycK > > suggestions (without getting into the merits of running DECWindows on a0J > > server machine...) ? I have searched on google, google groups, and the! > > VMS Docs, but to no avail....  > >.K > > The box in question is an AlphaServer DS-20 with an Elsa-Gloria Synergya- > > card. The system is running OpenVMS 7.3-1  > >i > > Any help appreciated.... > >  > >h > > Thank you, > >o > > Tomp > Hello, > 0 >     edit sys$manager:decw$device_config_gz.com >  > modify what you want...a >  >     @decw$startup init >     @decw$startup restartt >  > HTHa
 > Philippe    D Although this advice is correct, I am afraid that you will undo yourF changes pretty quickly afterwards. The Elsa-Gloria card is REALLY slow* when used with more than 8 bits per pixel.   Regards,  	 Bart Zorn    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 15:28:47 GMTt9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>i) Subject: Re: NEWBIE: DECWindows Bit Depth / Message-ID: <P0cUa.879$be5.87@news.cpqcorp.net>i  I Note that if you edit that file, OS upgrades will blow away your changes.sB Look in that file, and anything you can do there, you can put into: DECW$PRIVATE_SERVER_SETUP.COM (rename the .TEMPLATE file).  J The Oxygen VX1 is a good card, but is going end of life.  We are replacingL it with an ATI Radeon 7500 card - which is also very nice (and you can get aK 3D license for it too).  Be careful in getting off-the-shelf cards - optioncH makers often replace the card without changing the marketing names - andK I've seen people accidentally buy/try a Radeon 7000 (which almost works) or I a Radeon 9xxx (which will not work) - so if you want it to be supported --> get it from HP.  The card from us is what we test and qualify.   _Fredd  2 "Bart Zorn" <Bart.Zorn@xs4all.nl> wrote in message7 news:a98cd882.0307250643.72c835d4@posting.google.com...fB > "Philippe Bocher" <philippe.bocher@euriware.fr> wrote in message" news:<3f20cf9e$1@news.euriware>...> > > "Tom Rymes" <tomnews@rymes.net> a crit dans le message deC > > news:tomnews-C23664.22100224072003@news.comcast.giganews.com...  > > > Hi folks,n > > >ED > > > After much wind and fury, out trusty MicroVAX 3100/95 has been replaced$ > > > by a refurbed AS DS20. Woohoo! > > ><E > > > I have the machine start DECWindows on startup and all is well.  However,I > > > I would like to change the Bit depth and/or resolution. My only X11iE > > > experience is with Linux, so I have no idea how to do this. AnyaK > > > suggestions (without getting into the merits of running DECWindows onw a L > > > server machine...) ? I have searched on google, google groups, and the# > > > VMS Docs, but to no avail....o > > >tE > > > The box in question is an AlphaServer DS-20 with an Elsa-Gloria  Synergyo/ > > > card. The system is running OpenVMS 7.3-1  > > >  > > > Any help appreciated.... > > >2 > > >p > > > Thank you, > > > 	 > > > Tom 
 > > Hello, > > 2 > >     edit sys$manager:decw$device_config_gz.com > >  > > modify what you want...n > >f > >     @decw$startup init > >     @decw$startup restarte > >p > > HTHt > > Philippe >t >iF > Although this advice is correct, I am afraid that you will undo yourH > changes pretty quickly afterwards. The Elsa-Gloria card is REALLY slow, > when used with more than 8 bits per pixel. > 
 > Regards, >s > Bart Zornf   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 16:06:01 GMT-# From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) ) Subject: Re: NEWBIE: DECWindows Bit Depth 0 Message-ID: <JzcUa.884$cf5.627@news.cpqcorp.net>  k In article <tomnews-C23664.22100224072003@news.comcast.giganews.com>, Tom Rymes <tomnews@rymes.net> writes:tE :I would like to change the Bit depth and/or resolution. My only X11 oA :experience is with Linux, so I have no idea how to do this. Any @I :suggestions (without getting into the merits of running DECWindows on a hH :server machine...) ? I have searched on google, google groups, and the  :VMS Docs, but to no avail....  B   Interesting; I'd have expected that Google would have found the B   OpenVMS Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ).  (What search keys didA   you use in your Google search?  I'll add these keys to the nexts@   FAQ edition, for the next person that tries a similar search.)  I :The box in question is an AlphaServer DS-20 with an Elsa-Gloria Synergy h* :card. The system is running OpenVMS 7.3-1  D   PowerStorm 3D10T ELSA GLoria Synergy information -- in addition toC   the direct answers you recieved here -- is also referenced in theaC   OpenVMS FAQ, and in Ask The Wizard topics (5448) and (3419), etc.   D   And yes, the PowerStorm 3D10T series ELSA GLoria Synergy is a slowE   graphics controller.  I tend to prefer the PowerStorm 3D30 and 4D20 A   series among the older controllers (check the platform-specific C   support statements for the AlphaServer DS20 and AlphaStation DS20iC   platforms, of course -- the support matrix and related statements7D   are available at the AlphaSystems (AlphaServer) website) or one ofF   the newer mid-range controllers such as the HP Radeon 7500 that Fred:   and others mention in various of the follow-up replies.   B   As a new user of OpenVMS, you will want to acquire a copy of theA   OpenVMS FAQ -- the text-format version of the FAQ is easiest to D   search, of course, though a variety of file formats are available.  H   You can reach the OpenVMS FAQ, the AlphaSystems (AlphaServer) website,E   and the Ask The Wizard website from the main page of the HP OpenVMSa
   website at:   !     http://www.hp.com/go/openvms/   E   The direct URL for the OpenVMS FAQ is included in my sigfile below.e  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.comg   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 17:05:17 GMTp6 From: "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@mac.com.spamfooler>) Subject: Re: NEWBIE: DECWindows Bit Depth @ Message-ID: <f8e9347b653e46f094ded18f827d0cd1@free.teranews.com>  0 In article <JzcUa.884$cf5.627@news.cpqcorp.net>,%  hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) wrote:n    F >   PowerStorm 3D10T ELSA GLoria Synergy information -- in addition toE >   the direct answers you recieved here -- is also referenced in theUE >   OpenVMS FAQ, and in Ask The Wizard topics (5448) and (3419), etc.   H I always thought the ELSA Gloria Synergy was the PowerStorm 4D10T.  The H graphics ECOs that first provided support referred to it as such.  CLUE ? CONFIG on OpenVMS Alpha 7.2-1 identifies one of these cards as pH "PowerStorm 4D10T".  But now I see that both in the FAQ and this thread G you now refer to it as the 3D10T.  So now I'm confused.  Is there such uB a thing as a 3D10T?  IIRC the 3D10 was the S3 Trio64, an entirely  unrelated beast.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 13:08:09 GMT ; From: Charlie McCutcheon <charlie.mccutcheonspam@nothp.com>h8 Subject: Re: Obsolete cross compilers: where did you go?) Message-ID: <3F212BB8.68938E95@nothp.com>h  P I'm pretty sure that the XD Ada compiler by EDS does run on Alpha.  I have emailM from an EDS engineer confirming that on Jan 2002 saying the latest version isr 2.1.  > Last contact information I have is at the Compaq Ada web site;= http://h71000.www7.hp.com/commercial/ada/xdAda_contact.html .m   Charlie      Larry Kilgallen wrote:   > ; > I know of a VMS customer in this area still using SD-Ada. H > I believe it is supported by EDS, who have no intention of porting it. >hD > So that customer is stuck on VAX, and perhaps cannot even consider? > VAX emulators due to certification issues for their industry.    ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jul 2003 07:02:18 -0700# From: gknight@eds.com (Gary Knight)y8 Subject: Re: Obsolete cross compilers: where did you go?< Message-ID: <103101bb.0307250602.a66d30d@posting.google.com>  C Brian and all concerned the cross compilers are very much alive and E still sold and supported by EDS which incorporated SD some years ago.f  E The products some still on VAX and now also CHARON-VAX have also been44 ported to Alpha (AXP) and we are working on Itanium.? We offer a number of products such as XD Ada. Mil-std-1750A and,D others, see www.swep-eds.com which is the supporting groups site and1 will give all the info and contacts you may need.i   Hope this helps.   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jul 2003 09:47:00 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)-8 Subject: Re: Obsolete cross compilers: where did you go?3 Message-ID: <gMHTYGlDDxKN@eisner.encompasserve.org>R  g In article <3F212BB8.68938E95@nothp.com>, Charlie McCutcheon <charlie.mccutcheonspam@nothp.com> writes:n   > Larry Kilgallen wrote: >  >>< >> I know of a VMS customer in this area still using SD-Ada.I >> I believe it is supported by EDS, who have no intention of porting it.  >>E >> So that customer is stuck on VAX, and perhaps cannot even considera@ >> VAX emulators due to certification issues for their industry.  R > I'm pretty sure that the XD Ada compiler by EDS does run on Alpha.  I have emailO > from an EDS engineer confirming that on Jan 2002 saying the latest version isr > 2.1. > @ > Last contact information I have is at the Compaq Ada web site;? > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/commercial/ada/xdAda_contact.html .s  A I stand corrected.  Perhaps the VMS customer I am thinking of was.C sticking with VAX for certification reasons.  The version of XD Adad1 they are using, for example, might predate Alpha.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 16:45:25 +0100e* From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]>8 Subject: Re: Obsolete cross compilers: where did you go?' Message-ID: <bfrj6a$2l9$1@lore.csc.com>i   Larry Kilgallen wrote: > i > In article <3F212BB8.68938E95@nothp.com>, Charlie McCutcheon <charlie.mccutcheonspam@nothp.com> writes:i >  > > Larry Kilgallen wrote:  C > I stand corrected.  Perhaps the VMS customer I am thinking of waseE > sticking with VAX for certification reasons.  The version of XD Adaq3 > they are using, for example, might predate Alpha.l  B The details certainly aren't mine to share, but the later versionsF introduce incompatibilities with earlier libraries and commands. ThereG are variants which aren't public and therein lies some of the problem. a  @ There is also the issue of a consortia that don't speak the sameH language where related decisions are taken. Or not taken as the case may be.t  B Certification hasn't even been explored by this point in my reply.   All opinion of course...   -- v? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences! nclews at csc dot coml   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 14:12:54 +0200n$ From: Michael Unger <unger@decus.de>: Subject: Re: OpenVMS homepage and 'sales.liveperson.net' ?9 Message-ID: <bfrape$iac1k$1@ID-152801.news.uni-berlin.de>n  * On 24-Jul-2003 22:14, warren sander wrote:  K > we do tell you.. the 'privacy' link and the 'terms of use' links have ally > the info.   C I'd consider that to be "hidden info". Or do you really expect eachyB visitor to check the links mentioned each time visiting that site?   > L > right now 'liveperson' is monitoring a number of the 'bcs' (OpenVMS, Tru64: > UNIX, AlphaServer, HP-UX, Superdome, Nonstop etc) sites. > G > This is to build a clickstream database and enable them to be able to A > 'pop-up' a window and help customers with sales related issues.s  C Many people I know don't like "pop-up windows"; they are consideredi8 "annoying" and closed immediately if not blocked at all.   > K > This is currently being used very successfully on several other HP sites.   D I guess the majority of the visitors to "several other HP sites" areB Winwoes users with Internet Exploder's security set to "low". They5 usually don't care about security and privacy issues.c   > K > This is because we are increasingly getting customer requests for help inD9 > 'buying' stuff. And since we 'sell stuff' it seems likeeI > a good idea to have this available.. Currently we are using the shotguna  F Strange. Normally a department called "marketing" is to tell customers, how and where to buy. But I tend to digress.  ? > approach and putting the monitoring tags on every page but as K > time goes on and 'liveperson' goes live there will probably only be 10-20g< > pages with this on it. Mostly the pages where we see folksN > hitting the 'buy form' and other 'salesy' oriented pages. Ask the wizard and? > the doc site will probably not have these tags at that point.i >  > [...]  > N > But everything is spelled out in the privacy policy. Infact the info-privacy9 > folks are very active on a lot of fronts. Some of whichkM > seem overboard to me. Like I want to collect the 'url' (reffering url) thatlA > a customer is on when the 'website feeback' link is hit (I have(K > my own for the OpenVMS site but I manage several other sites). We are notr> > allowed to put the url into the mail message if the customerM > doesn't put it in themselves because that is considered a privacy violation @ > because we can put the url together with a name/email address.L > but it does make it easier to find/fix a problem if you know the url whereB > it occurs or where the customer is wondering around the web siteI > when they decide to give feedback. So if you ever do the feedback route8@ > PLEASE voluntarily paste the url where you found the error etc > onto the form.  @ The last time I checked the feedback mechanism (I don't rememberG exactly, 6 to 12 months ago) it wanted to download an EXE file and haver, it run locally. I really do *not* like that.   Michael    --    @ Please do *not* send "Security Patch Notifications" or "SecurityA Updates"; this system isn't running a Micro$oft operating system.r= And don't annoy me <mailto:postmaster@[127.0.0.1]> please ;-).   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jul 2003 09:52:10 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)-: Subject: Re: OpenVMS homepage and 'sales.liveperson.net' ?3 Message-ID: <PXwT7Z0V3C2k@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ` In article <bfrape$iac1k$1@ID-152801.news.uni-berlin.de>, Michael Unger <unger@decus.de> writes:, > On 24-Jul-2003 22:14, warren sander wrote: > L >> we do tell you.. the 'privacy' link and the 'terms of use' links have all >> the info. > E > I'd consider that to be "hidden info". Or do you really expect each D > visitor to check the links mentioned each time visiting that site?  & If they care about privacy issue, yes.  ? When I look for information on VMS topic X, I do not want to be  lawyered to death.  H >> This is to build a clickstream database and enable them to be able toB >> 'pop-up' a window and help customers with sales related issues. > E > Many people I know don't like "pop-up windows"; they are considered-: > "annoying" and closed immediately if not blocked at all.  = Some of us have conquered that issue by disabling JavaScript.I: HP does a better job that vendors like Oracle and formerly( Compaq in working with secured browsers.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 10:57:16 -0400t, From: "warren sander" <warren.sander@hp.com>: Subject: Re: OpenVMS homepage and 'sales.liveperson.net' ?, Message-ID: <3f214acf$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  J just so you know 97.6% of the visitors to the OpenVMS site have javascript enabled.2 thats 64765 w/javascript vs 171 without javascript    7 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message3" news:3F204926.21722C5@istop.com... > warren sander wrote:H > > right now 'liveperson' is monitoring a number of the 'bcs' (OpenVMS, Tru64p< > > UNIX, AlphaServer, HP-UX, Superdome, Nonstop etc) sites. >tL > But considering that a non trivial number of users accessing the VMS pages are.B > smart enough to turn off javascript, your big probably expensive
 statisticsK > are worthless since "liveperson" isn't getting any information from thosewL > smart users with javascript off. But if you used your web server logs, youK > would get some idea of how many visitors you really have compared to whatm  > liveperson tells you you have.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 18:05:51 +02005$ From: Michael Unger <unger@decus.de>: Subject: Re: OpenVMS homepage and 'sales.liveperson.net' ?9 Message-ID: <bfrpgs$ih9ne$1@ID-152801.news.uni-berlin.de>e  , On 25-Jul-2003 16:52, Larry Kilgallen wrote:  b > In article <bfrape$iac1k$1@ID-152801.news.uni-berlin.de>, Michael Unger <unger@decus.de> writes: >  > [...]e > F >> Many people I know don't like "pop-up windows"; they are considered; >> "annoying" and closed immediately if not blocked at all.  > ? > Some of us have conquered that issue by disabling JavaScript.h  ! So did I as mentioned previously.   < > HP does a better job that vendors like Oracle and formerly* > Compaq in working with secured browsers.   Agreed.-   Michael-   -- -  @ Please do *not* send "Security Patch Notifications" or "SecurityA Updates"; this system isn't running a Micro$oft operating system.k= And don't annoy me <mailto:postmaster@[127.0.0.1]> please ;-)s   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 14:00:33 -0400@- From: Jonathan Boswell <jsb@ost.cdrh.fda.gov>9: Subject: Re: OpenVMS homepage and 'sales.liveperson.net' ?0 Message-ID: <3F217041.FF309EF4@ost.cdrh.fda.gov>   warren sander wrote:K > This is because we are increasingly getting customer requests for help inm9 > 'buying' stuff. And since we 'sell stuff' it seems like   O Resurrect the Digital Electronic Store and make it easy to buy.  Gratuitous use O of javascript is IMHO not the way to make it easy for anybody to buy anything.  K Other vendors have lost a lot of business from me over the years because ofe this.k  G And while you're at it, bring back the DECdirect catalog!  (I know, I'maM dreaming.)  Didn't the DECdirect catalog have one of the highest $ volumes ofoF any catalog?  Turn the tables on Michael Dell.  That reminds me.  I amG constantly getting junk mail at home from Dell even though I have nevereL purchased anything from his company.  Do I get any glossy catalogs from HP?  Nope.I  T >just so you know 97.6% of the visitors to the OpenVMS site have javascript enabled.  : I am extremely dubious of that figure.  How is it derived?    - JBl   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 08:06:52 +0200 & From: Bernard Giroud <bgiroud@free.fr>+ Subject: Re: Packed decimal arithmetic in C & Message-ID: <3F20C8FC.A9E8E63@free.fr>   James Gessling a crit :  I > I'm trying to help out a programmer who would like to do this.  We haveoA > BASIC decimal data stored in a C array that he would like to dopC > arithmetic on.  (It's in a C array to get around BASIC's 65k byte  > limit for arrays). >u@ > Anyone know of library functions (or anything) callable from C > that can handle this?h >   3 Take a look at the runtime of these COBOL projects:-  " http://tiny-cobol.sourceforge.net/ http://www.open-cobol.org/# http://cobolforgcc.sourceforge.net/d   >m > Thanks,  Jim   Hope thsi helps...   -- Bernard Giroud! Open Source COBOL Tools Developer    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 01:27:37 -0400 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>+ Subject: Re: Packed decimal arithmetic in Ca, Message-ID: <3F20BFC9.1050902@tsoft-inc.com>   JF Mezei wrote:7   > David Froble wrote:t > J >>or group of calculations.  Sure, there are values that cannot exactly beQ >>represented in a floating point number, but, what's the difference between 1.35  >>and 1.34999999999999?  >> > N > If a contract specifies a unit price of 1.35 in a specific currency, but theO > supplier, due to rounding errors, charges 1.351 when calculating the cost forNG > selling 200,000 widgets, that makes a $200 difference in the invoice.t    K Your assumption is flawed.  When there is floating point error in a double rJ precision real, most or all of the 15 digits of precision come into play. P You're suggesting an error of .001, which is far more than any discrepency in a , double precision floating point real number.    P > Also consider those "urban legend" cases of bank employees diverting sub-pennyO > amounts from transactions to their own accounts and collecting tons of money.dO > This is one reason one would require full specification of monetary precision9% > when handling other people's money.a > O > If your amounts are big enough that they do not fit in a 32 bit integer, then E > the precision *IS* important because any error will be significant.  >   Q Ok, but you snipped what I wrote, which indicated that there could be some cases aP where floating point error would be an issue.  Instead of speculation, we'll go 6 to my trusty VAXstation 4000 model 90A for some tests.   First the environment:   SHOWM VAX BASIC V3.8-000      Current Environment Status    25-JUL-2003 01:00:33.64 K DEFAULT DATA TYPE INFORMATION:           LISTING FILE INFORMATION INCLUDES:a4      Data type : REAL                        NO List?      Real size : DOUBLE                      NO Cross referenceu?      Integer size : WORD                        CDD Definitions ;      Decimal size : (15,2)                      EnvironmentnC      Scale factor : 0                        NO Override of %NOLISTe<      NO Round decimal numbers                NO Machine code3                                                 Mapa< COMPILATION QUALIFIERS IN EFFECT:              INCLUDE files         Object file13         Overflow check integers           FLAGGERS:SB         Overflow check decimal numbers       NO Declining featuresC         Bounds checking                      NO BASIC PLUS 2 subsett@      NO Syntax checking                      NO Alpha AXP subset         Line<         Variant : 0                       DEBUG INFORMATION:A         Warnings                                Traceback records>D         Informationals                       NO Debug symbol records
         Setupo5         Object Libraries : DKA0:[DASV2.FL]SUPLIB.OLB;i Readyr   Then the code:   LIST NONAME    25-JUL-2003 01:01    10      Z = 1.107          PRINT FORMAT$( Z , "######.################" )o          Z = 1.35 7          PRINT FORMAT$( Z , "######.################" )           Z = 1.34999999999999 7          PRINT FORMAT$( Z , "######.################" )a          X = Z * 200000 1          PRINT FORMAT$( X , "######.##########" )t          CALL NROUND( X , 2% )1          PRINT FORMAT$( X , "######.##########" )2          END   Readye   And the results:   RUNw NONAME    25-JUL-2003 01:01y         1.1000000000000000       1.3500000000000000       1.3499999999999900 269999.9999999980b 270000.0000000000l Readyh  
 ---------- Chris Sheers stated:  G 3) A floating point number is not appropriate for currency calculationsnH because a floating point number can not exactly represent 1.35.  GettingF technical, the problem is that the base used in floating point numbersE is a power of two whereas currency calculations need a base that is a E power of ten.  In base 2, 1/10 is a repeating fraction and can not be  represented accurately.r	 ---------l  L I would have expected the 1.10 to not be precise, but either BASIC is doing L something 'helpful', or 1/10 can be represented in a floating point number. Q Regardless, I'm aware of several values that cannot, because I've been bitten by n= them in the past.  Same with the 1.35 that someone mentioned.   Q However, if $1.35 was actually represented in floating point as 1.34999999999999 LQ as I previously suggested, and you multiply it by the 200,000 you suggested, the 0P result shown above is still rather close to the desired value of 270,000.  Upon = rounding to 2 decimal places, it is indeed the correct value.g  M Once again, I'm not saying that there aren't situations where floating point  O errors are significant, but your quantity of 200,000 widgets hasn't come close II to that situation.  So, not in ALL, but in MANY places, double precision r0 floating point is adequate for monetary amounts.  L It seems that the number of widgets would need 13 digits to the left of the O decimal point, not the 6 that you suggested, before there would be significant eN error.  And the error would be caused more by the 15 digits of pricision in a O double precision real than the difference between $1.35 and $1.34999999999999.  , At that quantity, would $.01 be significant?   Dave   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------   Date: 25 Jul 03 11:39:15 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)E+ Subject: RE: Packed decimal arithmetic in Cs) Message-ID: <ueIiy7Xl52WG@elias.decus.ch>n  W In article <23JUL200321594635@gerg.tamu.edu>, carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) writes:$/ > p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) writes...mK > }You don't need to reach to the figures a bank or insurance company uses. O > }A signed 32-bit integer including pennies/cents cannot cope with a figure ofn > }30 million. >  > So use 64 bit integers.  >   L The point I wanted to make was that, using the VAX COBOL compilers available6 to me before 1995, 64 bit integers were not available.  L A brief Google search on comp.lang.sys for "64-bit integer", sorted by date,H shows 3 threads in December 1994 as the earliest mention of the subject.; We have to wait until 1996 before "binary-double" shows up.t  G There is an awful lot of COBOL code out there which predates that time,iC and my brief Google into the matter shows that there are up to datedH discussions on the subject for COBOL compilers on non-DEC platforms such
 as AS/400.  J > If your base unit is 1/1000000 of a dollar you can almost fit the entireN > US GDP into a signed 64 bit integer (the US GDP is a smidge over 10 trillionL > in the most recent figures I've seen; using a millionth of a dollar as theL > unit you can fit a litle over 9.3 trillion into a signed 64 bit integer).  > I > If you switch the unit to 1/100000 of a dollar you can actually fit the K > entire Earth's combined GDP into a signed 64 bit integer (and then some -bK > it's roughtly a factor of two under the maximum number that will fit). IfEK > that isn't big enough for any conceivable financial transaction, there is<J > something seriously wrong with your software. If you are trying to trackL > the entire planet't GDP to an accuracy better than a thousandth of a cent,5 > then you need to rethink what you are trying to do.r > ? > ("Trillion" as used in the US, of course: 1 000 000 000 000.)  > 
 > --- Carl   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jul 2003 06:50:19 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) + Subject: Re: Packed decimal arithmetic in C.3 Message-ID: <9UIybUJ6hhIL@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  W In article <3F207DAA.3040308@tsoft-inc.com>, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:J  Q > I've found double precision floating point to be entirely adequate for storing  O > monetary amounts.  I'll note that I've only used it for US$.  I'll also note  P > that $1,000,000.00 is a rather large monetary amount for any of the work I've 4 > done, and $100 million is more than ever required.  C While not so inevitable as the approach of the year 2000, there aresE circumstances where your needs could change.  Changes in the businesseE model or circumstances is only one.  Consider rapid inflation such aseC has been seen during the last century in Germany (pre-Nazi), Italy,i Afghanistan, etc.u   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jul 2003 06:52:48 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)n+ Subject: RE: Packed decimal arithmetic in C'3 Message-ID: <CtAhTOulRgCk@eisner.encompasserve.org>m  U In article <ueIiy7Xl52WG@elias.decus.ch>, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) writes:-Y > In article <23JUL200321594635@gerg.tamu.edu>, carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) writes:h0 >> p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) writes...L >> }You don't need to reach to the figures a bank or insurance company uses.P >> }A signed 32-bit integer including pennies/cents cannot cope with a figure of >> }30 million.  >> n >> So use 64 bit integers. >> a > N > The point I wanted to make was that, using the VAX COBOL compilers available8 > to me before 1995, 64 bit integers were not available.  F That is the point of using high level languages.  Specify the requiredH range and precision, letting the compiler of the time figure out whether@ to do that with BCD, 64-bit integers, or an AI arm to an abacus.   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jul 2003 08:23:43 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) + Subject: Re: Packed decimal arithmetic in CM3 Message-ID: <i3HJb1zYn5B7@eisner.encompasserve.org>    >  > 0.2 what?n > G > 0.2 pennies doesn't need to be expressed precisely.  We are operating.! > on whole pennies by assumption./  A    When you sell millions of copies of a product you need to workwF    units out to less than the whole penny level.  A change of .01 cent@    over a million units is $10K, and you will answer to the nextB    level of management if you screw up that much since that may be+    close to the size of their annual bonus.a   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jul 2003 08:30:41 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)i+ Subject: Re: Packed decimal arithmetic in Cb3 Message-ID: <0m1G8lOi8b5L@eisner.encompasserve.org>r  e In article <3F206A93.27CF7D9B@applied-synergy.com>, Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> writes:- > J > 1) An integer is not appropriate for tracking currency as dollars, since9 > an amount such as $1.35 can not be represented exactly.I > E > 2) A scaled integer consists of two values: the value and where them > decimal point is (the scale).a  I    If you do things in fixed point (a PL/I built-in type and a capabilitymH    of all compute hardware), you can do everything to $0.0001, which is C    common in finance.  You do have to get a large enough integer toaH    stuff your million dollars in (signed 32 bits scaled to $0.0001 will A    hold about $200000.0000), but most systems also have extended  B    arithmetic instructions, carry bits, etc., that are needed so a(    compiler can readily do this for you.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 12:33:40 -0500 / From: Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com>o+ Subject: Re: Packed decimal arithmetic in Ca3 Message-ID: <3F2169F4.6EFE5A7B@applied-synergy.com>a   Bob Koehler wrote: > g > In article <3F206A93.27CF7D9B@applied-synergy.com>, Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> writes:m > >rL > > 1) An integer is not appropriate for tracking currency as dollars, since; > > an amount such as $1.35 can not be represented exactly.- > >-G > > 2) A scaled integer consists of two values: the value and where the ! > > decimal point is (the scale).N > K >    If you do things in fixed point (a PL/I built-in type and a capabilitycI >    of all compute hardware), you can do everything to $0.0001, which iscE >    common in finance.  You do have to get a large enough integer tomI >    stuff your million dollars in (signed 32 bits scaled to $0.0001 willwB >    hold about $200000.0000), but most systems also have extendedD >    arithmetic instructions, carry bits, etc., that are needed so a* >    compiler can readily do this for you.    @ Correct.  "scaled integer" and "fixed point" are the same thing.  G -----------------------------------------------------------------------!$ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  C Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com 7   Fax: 817-237-3074a   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 12:48:22 -0500 / From: Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com>.+ Subject: Re: Packed decimal arithmetic in Co3 Message-ID: <3F216D66.9E734C3C@applied-synergy.com>e   David Froble wrote:m >  > Chris Scheers wrote: > # > > briggs@encompasserve.org wrote:s > >6Z > >>In article <3F1EE1FB.FE8CBFC4@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes: > >> > >>>John Reagan wrote:0 > >>> M > >>>>If they were only that smart...  I've seen dozens of examples of peopleeM > >>>>using binary floating to track currency (and each one is broken).  I'venK > >>>>even seen them in languages that provided scaled integers like BASIC.x > >>>>P > >>>Interesting since there are often standards on exactly how many decimals toK > >>>use when specifying currency and conversion factors, as in the case ofgQ > >>>international SWIFT transactions. With floating point, you can't specify hownF > >>>many decimals to consider during arithmetic, only during display. > >>>yF > >>Ahhh.  The point being that floating point considers _more_ digitsE > >>in some cases than the standards specify and thus gets the answern > >>"wrong" for that reason? > >> > >>Interesting. > >>B > >>So if you were going to use floating point correctly in such aI > >>case, one appropriate approach would be to use it to implement scaledoE > >>integers (make sure your integers fit into the mantissa, round torB > >>nearest integer after multiplication or division and track the* > >>decimal scale factor by hand).  Right? > >>G > >>I once used double precision floating point in exactly that manner.aJ > >>It made sense since I had compiler and hardware support for D floatingE > >>arithmetic but no compiler or hardware support for 64 bit integer A > >>arithmetic.  32 bit integers were too small, but the mantissaf? > >>on 64 bit floats was big enough for my purposes.  If I wereEI > >>re-implementing today, I'd be using 64 bit native integer arithmetic.c > >> > >>        John Briggs  > >> > >a > > F > > To try to summarize the issues:  (Hopefully I will get this mostly7 > > right.  I apologize if I am rehashing the obvious.)t > >eB > > For now, we are only considering financial applications, i.e.,? > > applications that track currency and need to do so exactly.  > >n# > > The first problem is exactness:e > >xL > > 1) An integer is not appropriate for tracking currency as dollars, since; > > an amount such as $1.35 can not be represented exactly.  > > G > > 2) A scaled integer consists of two values: the value and where thecK > > decimal point is (the scale).  This is what you are used to seeing on arJ > > calculator display.  A scaled integer represents $1.35 as 135s2, i.e.,J > > 135 with the decimal point shifted left 2 (between the 1 and 3).  ThisL > > is also known as tracking pennies.  Sometimes a scale larger than two isK > > required.  Quite often, compound interest calculations require a largerrG > > scale.  Also, different currencies may have different requirements.w > >s8 > > A scaled integer meets the requirement of exactness. > >eK > > 3) A floating point number is not appropriate for currency calculationsxL > > because a floating point number can not exactly represent 1.35.  GettingJ > > technical, the problem is that the base used in floating point numbersI > > is a power of two whereas currency calculations need a base that is avI > > power of ten.  In base 2, 1/10 is a repeating fraction and can not be  > > represented accurately.  > > G > > A floating point number does not meet the requirement of exactness.. > > I > > 3) Comparing floating point and scaled integer, it may become obvious K > > that a scaled integer is really a floating point number that is base 10.J > > instead of base 2.  They are really implementations of the same thing,H > > but scaled integers are more appropriate for financial applications. > >t  > > The second problem is range: > >yF > > 1) Using a scaled integers, some calculations can exceed the range > > available in 32 bits.e > > F > > 2) Decimal arithmetic is one solution to this.  Decimal arithmeticD > > tracks the number as a string of decimal digits.  (Again, like aB > > calculator.)  Decimal numbers are scaled integers, but are notJ > > restricted to 32 bits.  Generally, a decimal arithmetic implementation& > > allows up to (at least) 31 digits. > >mL > > 3) Floating point is another solution to this problem.  A floating pointL > > number is implemented as some number of bits for the power and some bitsI > > for the mantissa.  The mantissa is the numeric part of the value.  IfhG > > the power is held at zero, the mantissa is the integer value of the G > > number.  (Ignoring normalization.)  Basically, you use the floating $ > > point number to hold an integer. > >qG > > What's the point to this?  Well, a 64 bit or 128 bit floating pointoL > > value has more than 32 bits of mantissa.  This allows the floating pointJ > > value to hold an integer larger than 32 bits.  You can also do math onH > > this number with floating point instructions.  Just manage the powerG > > appropriately.  If this is done correctly, the floating point valueoH > > becomes exact for our purposes.  The extra bits give us the range weL > > need.  You still need to maintain an external scale.  You have created aJ > > scaled integer with the integer part stored in a floating point value. > >r > >. > > Summary: > >tK > > Either an extended precision floating point value or a decimal variable E > > can be used to provide a scaled integer with more than 32 bits ofl > > precision. > >l? > > COBOL and PL/I have built in support for decimal variables.  > > L > > The Alpha does not have hardware support for decimal variables, but doesJ > > have hardware support for extended precision floating point values, soI > > code can be more efficient.  But code libraries need to be written to < > > manipulate the floating point values as scaled integers. > >t > > Summary #2:A > >eJ > > Native 64 bit integer support in the Alpha makes much of the preceding1 > > discussion moot, if you are writing new code.y > >   > > Let the discussion continue! >  > Ok.a > P > I've found double precision floating point to be entirely adequate for storingN > monetary amounts.  I'll note that I've only used it for US$.  I'll also noteO > that $1,000,000.00 is a rather large monetary amount for any of the work I've-Q > done, and $100 million is more than ever required.  I'll concede that there are/Q > places where much more magnitude is required, while still requiring preciseness- > to the penny.t > K > As for calculations, that's a bit different.  To do so, a programmer must-Q > routinely perform a rounding calculation after, or as part of, any calculation,mJ > or group of calculations.  Sure, there are values that cannot exactly beQ > represented in a floating point number, but, what's the difference between 1.352O > and 1.34999999999999?  If an amount is added to this value, and the result is3K > rounded to 2 digits after the decimal point, that's adequate for countingsJ > dollars and cents.  Multiply it by 100, and still, what's the meaningfulL > difference between 134.99999999999 and 135?  Once rounded, it becomes 135.    7 For any single operation, the difference is negligible.t  C But you need to realize that every time you round, you introduce anMH error term.  Basically an error term says that the result is correct +/- some amount.  @ If you do error analysis, you will find that (in most cases) anyD operation between numbers with error terms generates a result with aG larger error term.  Do enough operations, and the error term can become- significant.  C Since an error term is a +/- range, it may be close to zero and noth@ affect the results.  But every now and them, all the errors willG accumulate to one side or the other and the results will be off by real'H amounts.  This is where you can be off by a $100,000 on a large project.  H The problem with errors is that it can be extremely difficult to predict  when they are going to bite you.  E You avoid this by using exact numbers.  With exact numbers, the error/E term is zero.  This is where scaled integers (fixed point) or decimalr values help you.    D Think about this:  If you need to PROVE that your code will generateE correct results, which would you rather use: floating point values oru decimal values?n  G What if your company has to indemnify your customer for any losses fromn errors in calculations?y  G -----------------------------------------------------------------------r$ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  C Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com 3   Fax: 817-237-30743   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 10:16:23 GMT * From: "Mark Buda" <buda_NO@SPAM.yahoo.com>, Subject: Re: Sun Micro Profit, Revenues Fall= Message-ID: <Xr7Ua.40994$8g6.1363375@news1.news.adelphia.net>v  K "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>n; wrote in message news:bfma5a$hlg$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com...  > Mark Buda wrote:  / > >>>It's good to own Sun stock             NOT 7 > >>>Andrew never stretches his nose or the truth   NOTp  J > > Just the facts Andrew.  You and I can pick firsts with many companies. It> > > is obvious that SUN is in trouble according to the articleD > > http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/030722/tech_sunmicrosystems_earns_5.html  = > So why not address my points instead of trying to FUD Sun ?r  H Speaking of Dr. FUD!  We have all watched you dance like a FUDbutterfly,& cutting pasting and growing your nose!  J SUN is having earnings problems big time and it is most interesting to see how you "explain" it away.  E > > Another article said "Its proprietary equipment based on the Unixv	 operatingaG > > system now must compete with rival machines that run less-expensive' chipsyI > > and software."   I thought SUN used industry standard hardware... :-)r > >  > > SUN IS IN TROUBLE... > > L > > For the year, Sun lost $2.38 billion, or 75 cents per share, on sales ofK > > $11.43 billion. Last year, it lost $587 million, or 18 cents per share.l > >x >a> > If you don't know what a non cash related charge is then you= > shouldn't be posting your apparent analysis of our results.s >.B > Sun lost 2.38 billion last year but that includes a 2.13 billionC > dollar write down because the book value of companies Sun aquired1 > has gone down. > ? > So Sun in fact lost 292 million this year lower than our last 
 > years loss.e  H and that is why the market was caught off guard with lower than expected earning?  H Really?  Since the writedown was known well in advance, what happened toA knowing how low SUN earnings (lack of earnings that is) would go?   # That should concern any customer...t   SUN IS IN TROUBLE...  > > And just for laughs the PC and Enterprise Systems businesses0 > within HP lost 472 million in the same period.  % Yep, HP made money, SUN did not.  :-)n  < > Ohh dear ooh dear, ohh dear how does it feal when your own" > argument comes back to bite you.  D As usual FUDding along with trivially trite little want-to-be rhyme.  & SUN FUD?  SUF NUD?  SUD FUN?  NUS DUF?  J Oh dear ooh dear, don't fret, my friend.  This is all in good SUD FUN! :-)  8 > Just try answering my points its less damaging for you > in the long run.  L Interesting you would say that.  I notice how you , shall we say, "SNIP" out" parts you do not want to answer...  K Just remember --- I am having fun and a good laugh as I read your desperate 
 whinings. :-)u   mark   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 09:33:11 -0500h1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>b, Subject: Re: Sun Micro Profit, Revenues Fall' Message-ID: <3F213FA7.18645B72@fsi.net>t   Mark Buda wrote: > M > "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> = > wrote in message news:bfma5a$hlg$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com...y
 > > [snip]? > > So why not address my points instead of trying to FUD Sun ?  > J > Speaking of Dr. FUD!  We have all watched you dance like a FUDbutterfly,( > cutting pasting and growing your nose!  1 Hhmmm... Butterfly... Flutterby... FUDderBligh...t   Has a certain poetic ring, eh?   -- p David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemst http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/n   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 11:21:24 -0400n* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>, Subject: Re: Sun Micro Profit, Revenues Fall) Message-ID: <3F214AF3.6E03CAD1@istop.com>    Mark Buda wrote:L > SUN is having earnings problems big time and it is most interesting to see > how you "explain" it away.  J One must not have such a short term view.  Sun has increased R&D spending,K correct ? To me, that means that in the longer term, there is a good chanceo! that Sun may begin to grow again.   K Remember that the Wall Street Casino analysts aren't analysing the company,tF they are analysing if the announced results matched their bets or not.  M Linux could be a problem for everyone except Dell which only assembles boxes.i   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 16:42:36 GMT 9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>b, Subject: Re: Sun Micro Profit, Revenues Fall0 Message-ID: <06dUa.889$dh5.211@news.cpqcorp.net>  7 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in messagev# news:3F214AF3.6E03CAD1@istop.com...y > Mark Buda wrote:J > > SUN is having earnings problems big time and it is most interesting to seeo > > how you "explain" it away. >eL > One must not have such a short term view.  Sun has increased R&D spending,F > correct ? To me, that means that in the longer term, there is a good chance# > that Sun may begin to grow again.p >t   Maybe yes, maybe no.  L Let's tackle R&D.  Sun had expanded its business to about $18+ billion/yr inK revenue by fiscal 2001.  To support that kind of revenue stream and growth, J they over time built up a sales force, engineering, bricks and mortar, andG general overhead needed to deliver their product.  By this year (fiscal L 2003) their revenue had shrunk to $11+ billion/yr.  But they still have muchK of the now "fixed" overhead that they needed when they were a third larger.tK People, buildings, inventory, equipment.  So as a result, their R&D expense I is now way out of line with their revenues - that is - they don't have totE increase spending at all for the expense to be a higher percentage ofe1 revenue - which is generally what you see quoted.e  G Now the short term problem.  Sun's market cap is about $13 billion, and L reportedly they have nearly $6 billlion in cash, and are losing $2 billion aG year (currently).  They are a publicly held company that has not paid ap@ dividend, so stockholders need to see an increasing stock price.C Simplistically, the stock price is a function of earnings (P/E) andeK speculation on future earnings.  If the stock dips too low, someone will benE very tempted to take over Sun using Suns own cash for the bulk of thetI purchase - and perhaps dissasemble them for the parts - or perhaps to try J and shore up their own position (say, like AMD or even IBM seeing a chanceI to deep-six a competetor).  This is not too unlike the position DEC foundsK itself in - and it wasn't even this bad for DEC - they were losing hundreds I of millions a year, and not billions - but had a strong balance sheet andTH lots of cash.  So, Sun will have lots of pressure to get the stock priceL up - which means they need to stop losing money, which without a significantK return to revenue growth means restructuring your fixed costs - getting riddL of people, equipment, buildings, etc.  All of which can, like at DEC, simplyH start a downward spiral that you can't get out of.  Right now, I'd guessL they need to grow revenue to about $15-16 billion to return to profitability from about $11 billion.r  L Long term?  Unless there is a major turn around in the world economy, or SunE comes up with a major breakthrough of some sort which can boost their3D revenue 30% -- they may not survive long enough to have a long term.  I But...  I think a strategy on their part of trying to hang tough, and not D slash and cut their way to profitability has the strongest chance ofK success.  But if/when they do come through the other end, they need to have D something to compete with.  And this is the real hard nut to crack -H Sparc/Solaris is their bread and butter, but it is old and slow and willJ continue to cost a lot of money to try and catch up and compete.  They areK running on marketing, vapor, and price (with no margins).  I don't know the L "value proposition" for them transforming themselves into primarlily a LinuxG purveyor.  If they drop Sparc and try building systems around commodityeH hardware - do they partner with AMD - a risky proposition given AMDs ownI trouble - or do they try Itanium -- and then have to compete head-to-head-" with HP, IBM, and maybe even Dell.  G I'd say the odds are 50-50 that someone takes over Sun, they merge withSC someone, or Sun looks to aquisitions to get into other parts of theD& business - maybe a software-only play.  D > Remember that the Wall Street Casino analysts aren't analysing the company,H > they are analysing if the announced results matched their bets or not. >>  I See above.  I too think that there is far too much "gambling disguised asoK stock trading".  It usually shows up in stock prices that are too inflated.oL But I think that there are also fundamental issues that drive stock prices -K and in a cautious market the stock price tends to reflect less speculation.qJ I would not be suprised to see Sun stock tumble under $3.00 and the sharks to start circling.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 13:18:42 -0400 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>, Subject: Re: Sun Micro Profit, Revenues Fall2 Message-ID: <lhSdnTd-dMHi-7yiXTWJhA@metrocast.net>  D "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> wrote in message* news:06dUa.889$dh5.211@news.cpqcorp.net...   ...p  ,   Sun's market cap is about $13 billion, andL > reportedly they have nearly $6 billlion in cash, and are losing $2 billion at > year (currently).   L 'Are losing $2 billion a year' (even qualified by 'currently') to me impliesI an on-going drain, whereas my impression was that almost all of that loss H this year was the write-down of the value of an acquisition (rather than some recurring problem).   ...   L > I would not be suprised to see Sun stock tumble under $3.00 and the sharks > to start circling.  A Possibly, but they didn't strike when that happened not long ago.c   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 17:03:09 GMTa; From: "John Gemignani, Jr." <jon-nope@thiswontworkossc.net>l Subject: Re: Sybase client= Message-ID: <hpdUa.41116$8g6.1502192@news1.news.adelphia.net>t  I <Rob.Buxton@wcc.govt.nz> wrote in message news:3f20ac00.348430468@news...t> > On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 07:51:53 +0200, dm <dimez@gmx.ch> wrote: >d
 > >Thank you,f > >. > >this brings some hope!J > > # > >we have the following situation:e > >,H > >after a query with the ISQL command and having onbly a IP connection, > >nothing is happening! > >t= > >after 2 minites (timeout) we get following error messages:i > > > >:$ > >         No such device available > >and# > >         Unable to create socketA > >e6 > >the creation of the IP device (socket) 5001 failed!K > >there must be some incompatible shared libraries or problems with the IPi > >stack > > $ > >(actual running: TCP-IP V5.1-15 ) > >a4 > >the sybase client seems to be the same Ver 10.0.3 > >a# > >but you TCP is a higher version!O: > >have you modified any TCP settings (buffer size or ...) > >eA > >(I have to mention, that the same program is running on an old , > >standalone machine, )AXP, running the old > >UCX , Ver 4.2-21) > > " > >so, updating the IP could help? > >- > >thank you and regards > >Dieter Meier  > >m > >i5 > Our version of the Sybase Client seems to be 10.0.1i > 1 > I'd check that your Interfaces file is correct.fF > A 2 minute time out seems like it cannot connect to the target host. > D > Maybe post a portion of the interfaces file and I'll compare that. >eC > Someone else has mentioned the inet driver, but the Sybase Client C > startup  should start that up. Although I recall problems when wep > moved from UCX 4 to TCPIP 5. >, >t >e > >u  > >Rob.Buxton@wcc.govt.nz wrote: > > @ > >>On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 12:03:45 +0200, dm <dimez@gmx.ch> wrote: > >> > >> > >>I > >>>Has any body a running sybase client (license locally installed) forl VMSgK > >>>7.1-2 (or higher) which can query with the IP stack (TCP-IP V5.1-15 orr > >>>higher) ?8 > >>>(Decnet is working, but on PC only TCP is working!) > >>>h" > >>>thanks for any ideas or helps > >>>f > >>>Dieter Meiern > >>>  > >>>l > >>>i > >>>sG > >>Yes we're running Sybase Open Client 10.0 (something) under OpenVMSr5 > >>7.2 (VAX) and 7.2-2 (Alpha) with TCPIP 5.3 ECO 2.n > >>3 > >>Is there a problem you're not telling us about?p > >>' > >>We only use TCPIP for connectivity.l > >> > >> > >s >n  K There were no code changes to INETDRIVER prior to V5.3.  With V5.4 there iseI a new, faster INETDRIVER which does not have the double quota issue on iti that the previous driver did.e   -Johnw   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jul 2003 12:35:04 -00004 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> Subject: SysAdmin Days6 Message-ID: <20030725123504.25805.qmail@gacracker.org>  D Today, 25th July 2003, is SysAdmin Day (http://www.sysadminday.com).  L So... Tell your boss to hand over the petty cash to get your beer allowance,E else the mail server goes offline and his pron collection gets wiped.      Doc. --  K OpenVMS.         Eight out of ten hackers prefer *other* operating systems.zK [New PGP Key - Get via finger]        http://deathrow.vistech.net/BOFH/doc/    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 10:07:38 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>u Subject: Re: SysAdmin Dayh' Message-ID: <3F2147BA.B1A7932B@fsi.net>    "Doc.Cypher" wrote:O > F > Today, 25th July 2003, is SysAdmin Day (http://www.sysadminday.com). > N > So... Tell your boss to hand over the petty cash to get your beer allowance,G > else the mail server goes offline and his pron collection gets wiped.   D According to the (plethora of expeletives deleted) I work for, I'm a" Technical Analyst, not a SysAdmin.   Screwed again...   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE SystemsM http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jul 2003 10:26:23 -05004 From: cornelius@encompasserve.org (George Cornelius); Subject: TCPIP$TRACEROUTE: A non-recoverable error occured. 3 Message-ID: <oNrELN+bMO2C@eisner.encompasserve.org>#  G Don't you just love programs that give non-specific error messages, and#0 then report nothing useful in their exit status?   Regression report follows.   --9 George Cornelius              cornelius@encompasserve.orgP0                               cornelius@mayo.edu  K ===========================================================================     Under TCPIP Services 5.3:    $ mcr tcpip$traceroute nowhere2"  A non-recoverable error occured.   $ sho sym $status    $STATUS == "%X00000001"      Under UCX (3.3?):  &  $ mcr ucx$examples:traceroute nowhereJ  dsa3:[sys0.syscommon.][syshlp.examples.ucx]traceroute.exe;1: unknown host  nowhere  $ sho sym $status    $STATUS == "%X10000014"  $ exit %x14(  %SYSTEM-F-BADPARAM, bad parameter value   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jul 2003 08:10:42 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)o Subject: Re: The PDP lives3 Message-ID: <P+MTEVP7hf$0@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ` In article <bfprlq0g3i@enews3.newsguy.com>, "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> writes: > L > Hmmm...  So, a Mentec M11 isn't a real PDP-11 since it wasn't designed andE > built by Dec?  Development of the PDP-11 family didn't end with thenB > PDP-11/93 /94, that was just the end of DEC's development of it. >   F    OK, I was not aware that Mentec had implemented any new systems.  IB    thought they had shipped one update to RSX and were maintaining    existing systems.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 17:07:11 +0100f" From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>/ Subject: VMS and Intel, yet another question...n' Message-ID: <3F2155AF.6010600@spam.com>t  J If you use the search engine of the INTEL WEB site http://www.intel.com, =  > with the keyword OpenVMS, the first entry you get is this one:  < http://www.intel.com/ebusiness/pdf/prod/itanium/ds022001.pdf  A When you open the document, you do not find anymore matches. Why?g   D. --=20d- Didier Morandi sarl au capital de 8 000 eurosn                     Tout VMS-   19 chemin de la Butte 31400 Toulouse France /   T=E9l: 33(0)5 6120 1964 Fax: 33(0)5 6154 1928f&           http://www.didiermorandi.com$             RCS Toulouse 448 694 851   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 13:24:08 -0400 # From: sol gongola <sol@adldata.com> 3 Subject: Re: VMS and Intel, yet another question... + Message-ID: <3F2167B8.8EE882AF@adldata.com>   % It's there, near the bottom of page 3   # "Operating system choice: Microsoftb& Windows Server 2003* (64-bit), HP-UX*,* Linux*, future versions of NonStop Kernel* and HP OpenVMS*"   Didier Morandi wrote:  > J > If you use the search engine of the INTEL WEB site http://www.intel.com,@ > with the keyword OpenVMS, the first entry you get is this one: > > > http://www.intel.com/ebusiness/pdf/prod/itanium/ds022001.pdf > C > When you open the document, you do not find anymore matches. Why?u >  > D. > --/ > Didier Morandi sarl au capital de 8 000 euross >                     Tout VMS/ >   19 chemin de la Butte 31400 Toulouse Frances/ >   Tl: 33(0)5 6120 1964 Fax: 33(0)5 6154 1928i( >           http://www.didiermorandi.com& >             RCS Toulouse 448 694 851   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jul 2003 09:49:09 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)e8 Subject: XD Ada on Alpha (was: Obsolete cross compilers)3 Message-ID: <k$zmy5$QjnGq@eisner.encompasserve.org>   b In article <103101bb.0307250602.a66d30d@posting.google.com>, gknight@eds.com (Gary Knight) writes:E > Brian and all concerned the cross compilers are very much alive andrG > still sold and supported by EDS which incorporated SD some years ago.u > G > The products some still on VAX and now also CHARON-VAX have also beeni6 > ported to Alpha (AXP) and we are working on Itanium.A > We offer a number of products such as XD Ada. Mil-std-1750A andaF > others, see www.swep-eds.com which is the supporting groups site and3 > will give all the info and contacts you may need.  >  > Hope this helps.  6 Thanks for the update and for your participation here.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 10:41:16 +0100 " From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>J Subject: Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Migrate obsolete VAX/VMS SW to OpenVMS Itanium% Message-ID: <3F20FB3C.30201@spam.com>    Bob Koehler wrote:N > In article <3F1FF493.7020601@spam.com>, Didier Morandi <no@spam.com> writes: > K >>If you wish to receive my monthly newsletter (first issue next month),=20 6 >>feel free to send mail to openvms@didiermorandi.com. >> >>This is not advertising. >  > @ >    So are you saying you're going to give away the newsletter, Yese> >    are you saying you're going to advertise somewhere else,  No; >    are you saying there will be no ads in the newsletter?g Yes.  E The newsletter will be free as my primary job (as you know) is doing c9 consulting. I do not intend to become the French SKHP :-)i   D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 11:10:51 +0100e" From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>J Subject: Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Migrate obsolete VAX/VMS SW to OpenVMS Itanium' Message-ID: <3F21022B.9020601@spam.com>o   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:' > Funny, sounds like advertising to me.f  F To me, advertising is announcing a product, service or event which is @ supposed to bring $$ to the originator. My goal is to share the I knowledge I'm currently gathering for the DEC Community. Not to sell the rI letter. On the other hand, obviously, if anyone asks me to help, I will. -0 I do not want to treat you as an idiot, Fred :-)  " > If you have a list of customers,M > software, and concerns from those customers - feel free to send this to SueeG > Skonetski who will be able to redirect it to the appropriate customerl > advocates attention.  I [off message: there were two (2) VMS ambassadors in France. One has left uI a few months ago, and the other one is not receiving that much requests,  I afaik. This is one of the investigations I'm running. Why many Customers .L in France don't ask HP? (I will not give my personal opinion on this here)].  F Back to your second remark, I am closely in relation with the HP EMEA G OpenVMS Migration Team in Sophia-Antipolis. I do hope and suppose that  8 you have your IPF Mig Team in the States too, don't you?  L > I have a top level question:  Are their concerns with IA64 pretty much theL > same concerns as Alpha?  That is, are they still on VAX because they could, > not or were blocked from porting to Alpha?  E According to my first results (I have 1800 VAX/Alpha/VMS users in my -D base) there was one and only one reason for VAX/VMS users not to go F Alpha: Customers keep saying today that they are perfectly happy with G VAX/VMS and were never interested to go Alpha as this would bring them eD nothing else that the famous (bad) side effects caused by a change. E Moreover, nearly 90% of the current VAX/VMS users here in France are nE doing process control or manufacturing or other "real time oriented" eD management, and the Alpha server was felt as an evolution towards a H business related system (which was not true but "perception is reality" I remember), so this was a second reason not to move. The last one is that -G prudent users were waiting to see wat would occur after the DEC/Compaq nG merge (actually VMS murder attempt as we all know now). They have seen!   F As far as the VAX to IA64 issue is concerned, no, the problem is very H different. The VAX is a 25 years old machine and these people are using I today obsolete software, such like cross-compilers (see my previous post yF in here) and other off-the-shelf packages which are not planned to be E ported to IPF because a) the editor does not intend to do so, b) the  J product does not exist anymore, or c) the editor does not exist anymore...  I I take this opportunity to tell you all that there is a huge increase of yH trust in HP since a few months over here on the future of VMS (could be 4 a good idea, btw, to change its name back to VMS :-)  G I would also add that DECUS France is dying because of the four COMPAQ 2F France years era. May I send a big RESCUE request to HP Corp. to tell D their "friends" in Paris to do something for DECUS France? (merci). G DECUS has always been a strong link between Customers and Digital. Why  F should this disappear (don't tell them about Encompass or HP-Interex,   VMS is out of these structures).  G More on DECUS in the first issue of the newsletter (which has still no h name, actually).   D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 11:21:29 +0100s" From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>J Subject: Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Migrate obsolete VAX/VMS SW to OpenVMS Itanium' Message-ID: <3F2104A9.7080904@spam.com>t   David J. Dachtera wrote:F > I think you'll find that the answers will range from "Yes" to "We'reG > still running software that was compiled/linked on V4.x" (or earlier) E > because the ISV disappeared or dropped VMS support, but the app. isu, > business critical, so they nurse it along.   Bingo.  I > Charon-VAX for OpenVMS-I64 (when/if it appears) may be of some value tol > some (but likely not all).  I Some users would have huge certification problems if they were requested oI to use emulators. And an emulator, even as good as Charon-VAX (Hi Robert eC :-) is so close to the hardware that each and every card should be sC implemented to solve all problems, which would generate complexity.-  D > A VAX -> I64 (direct) binary translator may have an audience also, > albeit somewhat limited.  G As you know, there is a VEST tool currently being made available to go : from Alpha to Itanium (see -H http://www.softresint.com/news/Bin_Trans.htm). SRI says that what could I be called "AEST" (Alpha Environment Software Translator) would translate c& already VESTed executables to Itanium.   D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 09:51:36 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>cJ Subject: Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Migrate obsolete VAX/VMS SW to OpenVMS Itanium' Message-ID: <3F2143F8.8A18F99B@fsi.net>    Didier Morandi wrote:  > H > As you know, there is a VEST tool currently being made available to go > from Alpha to Itanium (seeI > http://www.softresint.com/news/Bin_Trans.htm). SRI says that what could J > be called "AEST" (Alpha Environment Software Translator) would translate( > already VESTed executables to Itanium.  F VEST (DECmigrate) is somewhat limited as to which OpenVMS versions theH programs had to be linked on in order to translate successfully. That isD one of the key limitations that needs to be worked around to get the "old" VAX software onto Itanic.h   -- p David J. Dachteraa dba DJE Systemse http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jul 2003 12:29:22 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)pJ Subject: Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Migrate obsolete VAX/VMS SW to OpenVMS Itanium3 Message-ID: <YTkoljhFBsAI@eisner.encompasserve.org>r  [ In article <3F2143F8.8A18F99B@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:b > Didier Morandi wrote:  >> nI >> As you know, there is a VEST tool currently being made available to god >> from Alpha to Itanium (seedJ >> http://www.softresint.com/news/Bin_Trans.htm). SRI says that what couldK >> be called "AEST" (Alpha Environment Software Translator) would translate,) >> already VESTed executables to Itanium.s > H > VEST (DECmigrate) is somewhat limited as to which OpenVMS versions theJ > programs had to be linked on in order to translate successfully. That isF > one of the key limitations that needs to be worked around to get the! > "old" VAX software onto Itanic.z  C    I thought an updated version had been released to expand this toiD    later versions.  Of course, you may have code from 1.x running on    your VAX.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.408 ************************ not appropriate for tracking currency as dollars, since; > > an amount such as $1.35 can not be represented exactly.  > > G > > 2) A scaled integer consists of two values: the value and where thecK > > decimal point is (the scale).  This is what you are used to seeing on arJ > > calculator display.  A scaled integer represents $1.35 as 135s2, i.e.,J > > 135 with the decimal point shifted left 2 (between the 1 and 3).  ThisL > > is also know