1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 29 Jul 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 416       Contents:= Re: %EIA0, unsupported vendor (something), device set offline = Re: %EIA0, unsupported vendor (something), device set offline ( Re: Campus and Pathworks/Advanced Server( Re: Campus and Pathworks/Advanced Server" Re: Cluster communications on DS10P Console port 2001 on DECserver 90m - Eliminations of messages when used as printN Re: D.H. Brown: EV7 AlphaServers Deliver Enhanced RAS and Powerful Performance Firewall for VMS Re: Firewall for VMS Re: Firewall for VMS Re: Firewall for VMS Re: Firewall for VMS, Re: Forbes cover story: HP Merger Successful9 Re: Gartner: HP is #1 in server units shipped for Q2 2003 9 Re: Gartner: HP is #1 in server units shipped for Q2 2003 9 Re: Gartner: HP is #1 in server units shipped for Q2 2003 9 Re: Gartner: HP is #1 in server units shipped for Q2 2003 9 Re: Gartner: HP is #1 in server units shipped for Q2 2003 9 Re: Gartner: HP is #1 in server units shipped for Q2 2003 2 Re: HP advertising focuses on building brand image Re: HP FUDBusting  Re: HP FUDBusting  Re: HP FUDBusting  Re: HP FUDBusting  Re: HP FUDBusting + Re: HP World: Why Alpha's Omega Makes Sense P Re: Intel's had Dirty Bombs Anthrax and everything! (Was: Re: HP World: Why AlphP Re: Intel's had Dirty Bombs Anthrax and everything! (Was: Re: HP World: Why Alph2 Re: Migrate obsolete VAX/VMS SW to OpenVMS Itanium2 Re: Migrate obsolete VAX/VMS SW to OpenVMS Itanium Re: Model Update Plan  Re: Model Update Plan  Re: Model Update Plan  Re: Model Update Plan ' Moving cluster whilst maintaing quorum. + Re: Moving cluster whilst maintaing quorum. + Re: Moving cluster whilst maintaing quorum. + Re: Moving cluster whilst maintaing quorum. # Re: Mozilla... the new NULL process  Re: MSA1000  Re: MSA1000  Re: MSA1000 * NEWBIE Q: How to work with a PACKAGE file?. Re: NEWBIE Q: How to work with a PACKAGE file?. Re: NEWBIE Q: How to work with a PACKAGE file?. Re: NEWBIE Q: How to work with a PACKAGE file?  Re: NEWBIE: DECWindows Bit Depth NT Clusters  Re: NT Clusters  RE: NT Clusters  RE: NT Clusters * Re: OT: Rolling Stones permanently stained" Re: Packed decimal arithmetic in C" Re: Packed decimal arithmetic in C Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates  Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates  Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates  Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates  Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates  Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates  Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates  Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates  Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates  Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates  Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates  Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates  Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates  Re: Problems with NFS  Read MAG tape to disk  Re: Read MAG tape to disk  Re: Read MAG tape to disk 6 Re: TCPIP$TRACEROUTE: A non-recoverable error occured. Teergrube for VMS ?  Re: Teergrube for VMS ?  Re: Teergrube for VMS ?  Re: Teergrube for VMS ?  the newest file in directory  Re: the newest file in directory  Re: the newest file in directory  Re: the newest file in directory  Re: the newest file in directory  Re: the newest file in directory  Re: the newest file in directory  Re: the newest file in directory; VMS clusters anyone? An advertising & marketing opportunity  RE: Volume shadowing ?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 15:02:21 -0000 ! From: Z  <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> F Subject: Re: %EIA0, unsupported vendor (something), device set offline/ Message-ID: <vid33tao9i12a7@corp.supernews.com>    The exact error message is: < %EIA0, Unsupported vendor identification, device set offline  = The device is an HP Sure Store DLT80 and after a boot to disk = it's listed as a COMPAQ SDX-300C  (SHOW DEVICE MK/FULL).  The  O/S on disk is OpenVMS 7.1-2.   ? From the >>> prompt it's listed the same way (COMPAQ SDX-300C).   @ A boot to the OpenVMS 7.1-2 CD gives me the "EIA0" error message7 soon after the screen displays "Configuring devices..."    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 15:05:08 -0000 ! From: Z  <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> F Subject: Re: %EIA0, unsupported vendor (something), device set offline/ Message-ID: <vid394kvijq426@corp.supernews.com>   0 David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:J : What VMS version was the box running before you booted up the CD? V7.1-2E : may very well not understand Tx89s. Dunno. Even V7.2-2 doesn't have G : /DENSITY keywords for it in DCL. The only machine I have that I could I : examine that on is the Lab's production ES40. So, not exactly possible, 4 : and may not be a valid test since you have a GS40.  = The system has 7.1-2 loaded on its system disk.  In fact, the > CD I'm booting from is (allegedly) the same CD used to install) VMS on the machine a couple of years ago.   ? I'm not SURE the system is a GS-40... the Model # from the back  is DH-58NRA-AK   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Jul 2003 07:18:51 -0700( From: system@meng.ucl.ac.uk (Mark Iline)1 Subject: Re: Campus and Pathworks/Advanced Server = Message-ID: <e3fef766.0307290618.36fc8329@posting.google.com>   X "PEN" <paul.nuneznosp@mhp.com> wrote in message news:<bg3u8e$slc$1@hplms2.hpl.hp.com>...  K > PATHWORKS for OVMS has never liked 0 unit PAKs.   The same will hold true   > with Advanced Server for OVMS. > M > BTW, it's 100 units/client; a 3500 unit license would cover 35 clients (not  > 350).    Hi Paul,  < Thanks for that - passed back to reseller and Campus people.  7 BTW, I lost a zero - it was 35000 on the temporary PAK.      Mark   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Jul 2003 07:26:38 -0700( From: system@meng.ucl.ac.uk (Mark Iline)1 Subject: Re: Campus and Pathworks/Advanced Server = Message-ID: <e3fef766.0307290626.641fbbcc@posting.google.com>   l "Brad McCusker" <brad.mccuskerNosp@Mcompaq.com> wrote in message news:<vibs353q4lkq9b@corp.supernews.com>...K > (And I know nothing about this DECCampus thing.  Anyone care to explain?)   B DECcampus/Compaqcampus/HPcampus is a scheme in the UK for academic
 institutions.   F By purchasing a DECcampus licence on a particular system, we generallyB get unlimited access to non-royalty (ie those that DEC doesn't pay8 someone else a royalty on) DEC products on that machine.  = In our case, it does an awful lot to make OpenVMS, Tru64, etc  affordable.   ; http://h18000.www1.hp.com/emea/campus has more information.      Mark   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 10:17:24 +0200 + From: Rok Vidmar <Rok.Vidmar@NUK.Uni-Lj.Si> + Subject: Re: Cluster communications on DS10 & Message-ID: <3f2649b5$1@NUK.Uni-Lj.Si>   Keith Parris wrote: 1 > Some other things that might possibly be wrong: F > o  NISCS_LOAD not set to 1 (Have you enabled SCS communications overF > the LAN using CLUSTER_CONFIG.COM?  That adds a line to MODPARAMS.DATE > for setting NISCS_LOAD_PEA0=1 and sets the cluster group number and G > password if that hasn't already been done.  Then you must run AUTOGEN  > and reboot.)H > o  Wrong cluster group number and/or password in CLUSTER_AUTHORIZE.DAT2 > (this can be set using SYSMAN> CONFIGURATION SETG > CLUSTER_AUTHORIZATION/GROUP_NUMBER=xxx/PASSWORD=yyyy, and must be set / > the same on all system disks in the cluster).     o  Duplicate SCSNODE/SCSSYSTEMID   --   Regards,  D Rok Vidmar                       Internet:  rok.vidmar@nuk.uni-lj.si; National and University Library  Phone:     +386 1 421 5461 ; Turjaska 1, SI-1000 Ljubljana    Fax:       +386 1 421 5464  Slovenia   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Jul 2003 08:27:59 -0700 From: sdavidson@uss.com Y Subject: Console port 2001 on DECserver 90m - Eliminations of messages when used as print = Message-ID: <caf27c79.0307290727.27881a13@posting.google.com>   E We have a line printer connected to port 1 of a DECserver 90m that is E running Network Access SW V2.2 for DS90M  BL29-52, the port is set up F for LPR/LPD. We are get network access messages from the server on the* printer is there away of eliminating them?   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 17:59:20 +0000 (UTC)  From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.ukW Subject: Re: D.H. Brown: EV7 AlphaServers Deliver Enhanced RAS and Powerful Performance ) Message-ID: <bg3o9o$icr$2@news.mdx.ac.uk>   a In article <d4b3ivoq7ksi3li3bvc6g5cokst5lscn8a@4ax.com>, jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net> writes: J >On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 16:10:28 +0000 (UTC), david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk wrote: > c >>In article <uc5thvs11ui8g0m0cvlb906e3rt7gua1mq@4ax.com>, jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net> writes:  > M >>>And it's just getting started. Compared to Alpha, what is it, EV2?  EV2.5?  >>>  >>D >>As I recall the EV4 shipped in the first generation Alpha Systems.< >>The previous EV3 or earlier were just internal test chips. > G >Actually, IIRC, there were development platforms for ISVs.  I'll state K >right out that I may be off on that, but in the area I was in at the time,  >that rings true.  >  >>@ >>Hence IA64 is at least in the same generation position as EV5.O >>However I'd say there were a lot more production EV5 systems sold than there  O >>are production IA64 systems (even if you include ALL the IA64 generations in   >>the IA64 total). > K >I think I've already stated this before, but imo, the initial IA64 is more J >in the EV3-EV4 stages, while the most recent, soon-to-be-released is more >in the EV4-EV5 stages.  > C >In any case, it's very, very early and the business environment is H >completely different than when Alpha first came out.  At Alpha release,L >expensive, large servers were still more common than cheaper Wintel serversG >for business apps.  I don't think you can easily discount IA64 at this 
 >early stage.  >   J But thats the point this isn't early for IA64. Merced was supposed to be aN PRODUCTION system !!!! The reason it was so slow is because it was so so late.I We are now on the second chip generation - Mckinley ie we are NOW at the   equivalent of EV5.  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 11:22:37 GMT ( From: "John Hayes" <hayes1966@yahoo.com> Subject: Firewall for VMS 9 Message-ID: <1OsVa.98567$R92.12518@news2.central.cox.net>   = Is there any software that you can use as a firewall on VMS ?    Thanks   John   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 12:04:25 +0000 (UTC) 7 From: hamilton@Encompasserve.org (Bradford J. Hamilton)  Subject: Re: Firewall for VMS / Message-ID: <bg5ns9$cvd$2@grandcanyon.binc.net>   d In article <1OsVa.98567$R92.12518@news2.central.cox.net>, "John Hayes" <hayes1966@yahoo.com> writes:> !Is there any software that you can use as a firewall on VMS ? !   O This subject has been discussed a number of times in this forum, as recently as G last month (use Google Advanced Groups Search to find the discussions).   K Is this topic a candidate for inclusion in the next version of the VMS FAQ?    !Thanks  !  !John  !  !    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 15:07:23 +0300 - From: "Kari Keronen" <kari.keronen@digita.fi>  Subject: Re: Firewall for VMS 8 Message-ID: <ootVa.2920$HC4.691@reader1.news.jippii.net>  K Product called "Digital Firewall for OpenVMS" has been dead for a while, so H in these days the answer is no. (Anyway I didn't find any when I studied this same issue a while ago).    -Kari-  , "John Hayes" <hayes1966@yahoo.com> kirjoitti8 viestiss:1OsVa.98567$R92.12518@news2.central.cox.net...? > Is there any software that you can use as a firewall on VMS ?  >  > Thanks >  > John >  >    ------------------------------    Date: 29 Jul 2003 08:00:48 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: Firewall for VMS 3 Message-ID: <CBO8Yhb3wCqq@eisner.encompasserve.org>   d In article <1OsVa.98567$R92.12518@news2.central.cox.net>, "John Hayes" <hayes1966@yahoo.com> writes:? > Is there any software that you can use as a firewall on VMS ?   ;    Not specifically, but VMS itself does a fine job for me.    ------------------------------    Date: 29 Jul 2003 16:15:06 -00004 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> Subject: Re: Firewall for VMS 6 Message-ID: <20030729161506.17051.qmail@gacracker.org>  L On 29 Jul 2003, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote:G >In article <1OsVa.98567$R92.12518@news2.central.cox.net>, "John Hayes"  ><hayes1966@yahoo.com> writes:@ >> Is there any software that you can use as a firewall on VMS ? > < >   Not specifically, but VMS itself does a fine job for me.  @ It certainly does... Until you run into a DoS attack or similar.  I These seem to be the favourites of skiddiots who've failed to even unpack M their root kits on the Deathrow Cluster.  I suppose we should switch to ODS-5 L so they get just that little bit further with their Eggdrop and sundry other garbage.     Doc. --  K OpenVMS.         Eight out of ten hackers prefer *other* operating systems. K [New PGP Key - Get via finger]        http://deathrow.vistech.net/BOFH/doc/    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 05:37:21 -0400 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>5 Subject: Re: Forbes cover story: HP Merger Successful 2 Message-ID: <1tGcncgvp8_D3buiXTWJhQ@metrocast.net>  > "Keith Parris" <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message7 news:cf15391e.0307281724.6986b666@posting.google.com... H > The cover story for the August 11 issue of Forbes magazine details the > success of the HP merger.   J No one who's been paying any attention at all has any doubts about Carly'sH aptitude for slashing.  However, the fact that she hasn't much of a clueG about *what* to slash has contributed not only to absolute market-share J erosion but to erosion relative to HP's major competition - positioning HPG to be the leanest and meanest failure around while IBM and Dell thrive.    - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Jul 2003 01:03:16 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) B Subject: Re: Gartner: HP is #1 in server units shipped for Q2 20033 Message-ID: <7RnGhl17b8ln@eisner.encompasserve.org>   V In article <3F25FA11.2DF72F81@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes: > Rob Young wrote:M >> H-P (HPQ: news, chart, profile) remained No. 1 in worldwide shipments with 1 >> 376,100 units and a 29.5 percent market share,  > P >> 15.7 percent of the market, up 33.5 percent from a year ago. Sun MicrosystemsQ >> (SUNW: news, chart, profile) kept its fourth-place position with 64,000 server # >> shipments and a 5-percent stake.  >  > N > Of the 376,100 "servers" HP sold, if you remove the 8086 based machines, how > many machines remain ?P > (i.e. how many PA-Risc, Alpha and MIPS did HP sell compared to the 64k servers > Sun sold ? > H > One should really have a proper definition of the term "server" before > comparing companies.    ; 	Who cares.  Sun is *just now*  selling Intel kit.  Clearly C 	a mistake on Sun's part to wait this long.  Delaying their port to ? 	Itanium surely isn't helping matters either (Industry Standard E 	64-bit server).  Dell is making money hand over fist,  selling only  A 	Intel kit.   A key to profitability is selling Intel.  Sun would A 	have you believe otherwise and chattered on for several quarters A 	about a tough economy.  However, this quarter that excuse isn't  H         holding up.  Sun has lost it.  At 5% server share is approaching 	Apple status.  - 	Perhaps its time for McNealy to do an Olsen.    				Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 03:38:55 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>B Subject: Re: Gartner: HP is #1 in server units shipped for Q2 2003) Message-ID: <3F26246D.BE34ED91@istop.com>    Rob Young wrote:D >         Who cares.  Sun is *just now*  selling Intel kit.  ClearlyL >         a mistake on Sun's part to wait this long.  Delaying their port toH >         Itanium surely isn't helping matters either (Industry Standard >         64-bit server).   K Lets be very clear about it: ITANIUM ISN'T INDUSTRY STANDARD. Even HP still F refers to the 8086 as industry standard.  IA64 *might* become industryF standard in a distant future or in a galaxy far far away, but it isn'tK industry standard right now and its chances or it becoming industry stanard M are slim, especially if Intel is forced to produce a 64 bit 8086 for desktop.   I ***IF*** Sun ever plans to port Solaris to IA64, they they are being very J smart in waiting until IA64 is a true commercial reality before announcingM anything. If they pre-announce going to a vapourware chip, as was the case on J June 25 2001 for ex Digital products, then customers will be in a state of# limbo until IA64 becomes a reality.   L And consider also the possibility that should Intel produce a 64 bit versionF of the 8086 industry standard, it will kill off any chance of the IA64C becoming industry standard (and probably kill off the chip period).   G You, as an apoligist, can keep on hoping that IA64 will become industry M standard. But I, as a customer, wouldn't bet a penny on it. If it happens, it = will happen. But right now, it is far from industry standard.   J Digital made the VT100 industry standard. But it doesn't mean that all its4 products were industry standard. Likewise for Intel.  5 >  Dell is making money hand over fist,  selling only @ >         Intel kit.   A key to profitability is selling Intel.   J No. Key to profitability is selling high volume with low margins, or lower volumes with higher  margins.   J Once IA64 sells more than Sparc, then come back to me. Until then, you can; only pray/hope that IA64 will grow to respectable volumes.      J >         holding up.  Sun has lost it.  At 5% server share is approaching >         Apple status.   N And I would remind you that Apple is still there, it has outlived Digital. TheE Power chip has outlived Alpha. And Apple is still a leader/innovator.   L And again, if you compare Sun which sells only truye enterprse systems, thenM you must remove the wintel numbers from HP and IBM. (And that would make Dell  with 0% of market share).   K Why not include Casio in those statistics while we are at it ? If they sell R 100,000 calculators per quarter, perhaps they should be number 4 ahead of Sun ????  M Perhaps vendors should be compared by the number of MIPS/SPECS that they have L sold in a quarter. So a single wintel box wouldn't have such a big weight in those statistics.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 06:33:39 -0400 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>B Subject: Re: Gartner: HP is #1 in server units shipped for Q2 20032 Message-ID: <NqudnTIjw9AN0LuiXTWJjw@metrocast.net>  > "Keith Parris" <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message7 news:cf15391e.0307281744.2284b847@posting.google.com... D > "According to preliminary results released Friday by research firmD > Gartner Dataquest, HP (NYSE:HPQ) is once again the No. 1 vendor ofG > servers worldwide, with 29.5 percent unit market share for the second  > calendar quarter of 2003.(1)  H Down a tad, one might note, from the 30.1% market share it averaged overE 2002.  When the entire report becomes available, we'll be able to see 6 whether IBM and Dell once again increased their share.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 06:48:39 -0400 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>B Subject: Re: Gartner: HP is #1 in server units shipped for Q2 20032 Message-ID: <i4OdnZ6295qJzLuiU-KYgg@metrocast.net>  5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message , news:NqudnTIjw9AN0LuiXTWJjw@metrocast.net... > @ > "Keith Parris" <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message9 > news:cf15391e.0307281744.2284b847@posting.google.com... F > > "According to preliminary results released Friday by research firmF > > Gartner Dataquest, HP (NYSE:HPQ) is once again the No. 1 vendor ofI > > servers worldwide, with 29.5 percent unit market share for the second   > > calendar quarter of 2003.(1) > J > Down a tad, one might note, from the 30.1% market share it averaged overG > 2002.  When the entire report becomes available, we'll be able to see 8 > whether IBM and Dell once again increased their share.  I Whoops - Rob already found more data, and, indeed, both IBM and Dell grew J strongly (at nearly twice the growth rate of the market overall), while HPJ lost a bit of ground (only a 15.7% sales increase in a market that overall rose 17.6%).   - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Jul 2003 07:55:39 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) B Subject: Re: Gartner: HP is #1 in server units shipped for Q2 20033 Message-ID: <ZVcVhV88QL$m@eisner.encompasserve.org>   U In article <3F25D418.4364E1F@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes:  > Keith Parris wrote:  >>  E >> "According to preliminary results released Friday by research firm E >> Gartner Dataquest, HP (NYSE:HPQ) is once again the No. 1 vendor of 9 >> servers worldwide, with 29.5 percent unit market share  > L > If you remove windows machines, and compare only real servers, how does HP > rank against IBM and Sun?   F    How about drawing the line as remove the non-profit machines?  Yes,E    it might turn out to be the same line, but that's more realvent to     the Gartner audience.   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Jul 2003 09:02:14 -0700( From: thethieves@btinternet.com (Audrey)B Subject: Re: Gartner: HP is #1 in server units shipped for Q2 2003= Message-ID: <8ac50703.0307290802.789cb605@posting.google.com>   7 > >  Dell is making money hand over fist,  selling only B > >         Intel kit.   A key to profitability is selling Intel.     @ The key to  profitability is good customer service. Dell stinks. I would't buy stock in Dell.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 10:41:01 -0400 $ From: "rob kas" <news@paychoice.com>; Subject: Re: HP advertising focuses on building brand image / Message-ID: <vid2dtefqa3k3e@corp.supernews.com>   9    Why not just say all your wood behind one Arrowhead :)      > ? > 'In a concerted effort, HP will be spending at least half its C > advertising budget to create a cohesive, branded image that holds @ > across all regions and product lines. "One Voice" is a projectF > designed to unify the look of HP products, consolidate suppliers andF > agencies and renegotiate prices to create consistency. "One Voice isF > also aimed at HP employees themselves, who are increasingly asked toG > look outside their individual divisions, and work to sell the company H > as a whole, looking for added revenue, and building new products, like@ > expensive printing systems tied to HP data centers, that cross6 > traditional lines of business," Forbes magazine saidF > (www.forbes.com/2003/07/24/cz_qh_0725hpbrand.html). Allison Johnson,G > senior vice-president for global brand and communications at HP, told E > the magazine that in 2002, less than 10 percent of HP's advertising A > budget was focused on brand advertising. This year she said she A > expects the company to spend about half its budget on branding, H > although HP will not say how big that budget is other than less than 5H > percent of total revenue. About $400 million of that budget will go toB > push its image with consumers in a campaign called "you and HP,", > scheduled to begin appearing in the fall.' > = > HP's brand image is indeed improving.  InsideHP states: 'In 3 > BusinessWeek's third annual look at global brands I > (http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/03_31/b3884157_mz046.htm) D > with Interbrand, a brand consultancy, HP grew 18 percent from last@ > year and ranked 12th among all global brands by dollar value.'   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 11:07:36 +0000 (UTC) & From: peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva) Subject: Re: HP FUDBusting0 Message-ID: <bg5kho$2uu2$1@jeeves.eng.abbnm.com>  6 In article <20030721103716.26065.qmail@gacracker.org>,6 Doc.Cypher  <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote:P > I *hate* to say he's right, but VMS security has had many of the features that' > Theo worked into BSD for a long time.    Hmmm.   H VMS security is organised on a completely different dimension than UNIX:H the fine grained security on VMS is based on explicit rights rather thanE assigning resources to user IDs and delegating access control to code  running under those IDs.  L UNIX style security (which isn't just used by UNIX: NT borrowed from UNIX asL well as VMS here) fails when developers missing the point of group ownershipC of resources and making applications run as root rather than a less H privileged ID. The Berkeley socket API made this worse by requiring rootG access to open "privileged" ports, rather than delegating that right to F a group. In NT this problem is manifest in the number of services that) apparently need to run as "Local System".   M VMS style security fails when an combination of rights can be used to 'boost' L privilege to gain additional rights that weren't intended. In VMS there haveG been relatively few of these attacks discovered, but other systems that @ borrowed the VMS fine-grained rights model have been less lucky.  K NT seems to have combined both of these approaches. Within a few minutes of I sitting down at an NT box for the first time I was able to take advantage L of that and boost my privileges to those of the scheduler service and launch! an application as "Local System".    Oops. :)  M I understand they've fixed that one, but mixing two such divergent mechanisms K seems to me to be asking for trouble. Are you sure that it's really correct L to characterise the features Theo's been adding to OpenBSD as something that" might have been borrowed from VMS?   --  O I've seen things you people can't imagine. Chimneysweeps on fire over the roofs O of London. I've watched kite-strings glitter in the sun at Hyde Park Gate.  All L these things will be lost in time, like chalk-paintings in the rain.   `-_-'K Time for your nap.  | Peter da Silva | Har du kramat din varg, idag?    'U`    ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 11:11:16 +0000 (UTC) & From: peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva) Subject: Re: HP FUDBusting0 Message-ID: <bg5kok$2uu2$2@jeeves.eng.abbnm.com>  5 In article <news-21ABEB.01290623072003@news.tdl.com>, + Michael Vilain  <vilain@spamcop.net> wrote: H >                                       Leave it to the VMS kernel team J > (the orginators of the "See Figure 1" responce to customer requests for  > VMS enhancements).  * Don't let Barb hear you talking like that.   --  O I've seen things you people can't imagine. Chimneysweeps on fire over the roofs O of London. I've watched kite-strings glitter in the sun at Hyde Park Gate.  All L these things will be lost in time, like chalk-paintings in the rain.   `-_-'K Time for your nap.  | Peter da Silva | Har du kramat din varg, idag?    'U`    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 11:45:03 GMT , From: Nico Kadel-Garcia <nkadel@verizon.net> Subject: Re: HP FUDBusting6 Message-ID: <37tVa.3557$JS2.2248@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>   Peter da Silva wrote:   7 > In article <news-21ABEB.01290623072003@news.tdl.com>, - > Michael Vilain  <vilain@spamcop.net> wrote:  > H >>                                      Leave it to the VMS kernel team J >>(the orginators of the "See Figure 1" responce to customer requests for  >>VMS enhancements). >  > , > Don't let Barb hear you talking like that. >   C Why? David Cutler and his pirate ship of code thieves got hired by  F Microsoft to publish NT based on VMS source code, so if Michael means , them they got to continue their behavior....   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Jul 2003 07:33:42 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: Re: HP FUDBusting3 Message-ID: <lMfcNzZZq7OX@eisner.encompasserve.org>   Y In article <bg5kho$2uu2$1@jeeves.eng.abbnm.com>, peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva) writes:   J > VMS security is organised on a completely different dimension than UNIX:J > the fine grained security on VMS is based on explicit rights rather thanG > assigning resources to user IDs and delegating access control to code  > running under those IDs.  H It would seem your VMS security experience predates V4 or so, before theF advent of VMS Identifiers and resource ownership by those Identifiers.8 Except for the name, it is quite similar to Unix Groups.  N > UNIX style security (which isn't just used by UNIX: NT borrowed from UNIX asN > well as VMS here) fails when developers missing the point of group ownershipE > of resources and making applications run as root rather than a less  > privileged ID.  I But this devolves to the issue of whether customers for such products are G willing to accept such trash. I have encountered flawed approaches from E vendors selling into the VMS market as well.  How about "VMS does not J allow file sharing from Cobol unless the user has the BYPASS privilege." ?  O > VMS style security fails when an combination of rights can be used to 'boost' N > privilege to gain additional rights that weren't intended. In VMS there haveI > been relatively few of these attacks discovered, but other systems that B > borrowed the VMS fine-grained rights model have been less lucky.  D That is trivial _within_ some of the seven privilege categories, butE escalating into a more privileged category is more difficult.  Within E a category, however, the individual privilege prevent keyboard errors $ to which the user is not authorized.   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Jul 2003 15:15:58 -00004 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> Subject: Re: HP FUDBusting6 Message-ID: <20030729151558.15837.qmail@gacracker.org>  < On Tue, 29 Jul 2003, peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva) wrote:7 >In article <20030721103716.26065.qmail@gacracker.org>, 7 >Doc.Cypher  <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote: L >> I *hate* to say he's right, but VMS security has had many of the features >> that ( >> Theo worked into BSD for a long time.   <snip>  N >I understand they've fixed that one, but mixing two such divergent mechanismsL >seems to me to be asking for trouble. Are you sure that it's really correctM >to characterise the features Theo's been adding to OpenBSD as something that # >might have been borrowed from VMS?   M My (somewhat limited) understanding was that things like the stack protection E measures were sufficiently similar to those in VMS that they could be ? described as separate implementations of very similar concepts.   M Close enough for the purposes of the discussion - even if it meant saying The ! Man from Instantwhip had a point.      Doc. --  K OpenVMS.         Eight out of ten hackers prefer *other* operating systems. K [New PGP Key - Get via finger]        http://deathrow.vistech.net/BOFH/doc/    ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 17:53:43 +0000 (UTC)  From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk4 Subject: Re: HP World: Why Alpha's Omega Makes Sense) Message-ID: <bg3nv7$icr$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>   a In article <dk83iv8rjqnmehp3lct5pvap4mabsq7b6c@4ax.com>, jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net> writes: C >On 23 Jul 2003 20:43 CDT, carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) wrote:  > $ >>jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net writes...M >>}Why would you expect it to be profitable yet?  No business-critical server L >>}market has been realized yet - it's just too early.  IIRC, the Alpha chipL >>}was EV4 before most of us ever saw it in real business-use systems.  What. >>}is the current state of IA64?  EV2?  EV2.5? >>< >>The EVx designation does not mean what you think it means. > D >Actually, you're right, and I really did know that.  I was taking a> >short-cut in the discussion to make point.  Sorry 'bout that. > I >>There was no "EV3" or earlier except as purely developmental stuff. The I >>"EV4" was not only the first version that was available in systems, I'm J >>pretty sure it was the first version that was *supposed* to be available
 >>in systems.  > L >Yes, yes.  I apologize again for the short-cut.  I was thinking in terms ofL >"chip generations" and using the term that seemed comparable to the current >discussion of IA64 generation.  >  >>G >>Thus, in some loose sense, the current IA64 is equivalent to the EV56 J >>(21164A) - the shrunk version of the second generation of the processor.J >>(In both cases, ignoring all developmental test chips produced earlier.)I >>Of course it doesn't match exactly - the 21164 had pretty much the same M >>core as the 21064, but the Itanium 2 has a core that has had a considerable L >>amount of redesign work done on it. You could say they skipped the EV5 andK >>went directly to the EV6 by doing extesnsive redesign of the core insteadEK >>of just doing a few tweaks and shrinking the thing - in that case the newt; >>version would be roughly equivalent to the EV67 (21264A).t >rF >I'm not sure I agree with this progression.  Imo, the current IA64 isI >really closer to the pre-21064/EV4 chip - i.e., the first one available, " >albeit to only developers really. >.J >It's not a perfectly aligned comparison between these, but the release ofH >IA64 which is slated for wide-availability is, to me, somewhere betweenD >21064 and 21164.  Somethings are at or better than 21164, but other! >features may be closer to 21064.  >tK >In this sense, I believe that it's too early to tell what will happen with2 >this chip.t >:L Definitely not. Merced was supposed to be a production chip ie equivalent toL EV4 - it had already been in development much longer than Alpha was prior toH the EV4 launch. The fact that it was a pig and noone bought any doesn't N magically transform it back into a development chip - Intel's redesignation ofM it as just for developers to look at was just Intel making the best of a bad r job.  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University  E PS. If you only accept IA64 as being in production when it has sold anK substantial fraction of the number of EV4 units which were sold then we areVN still waiting for a production IA64 chip and probably will be waiting for some time.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 13:53:30 GMTp# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>nY Subject: Re: Intel's had Dirty Bombs Anthrax and everything! (Was: Re: HP World: Why AlphnF Message-ID: <u%uVa.3102$QsW1.248@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messagee, news:or-cneg_iJljPriiXTWJjA@metrocast.net...F > JF and John have done a good job of responding to most of this post, so I'llr7 > just fill in a couple of holes and add some emphasis:P >A5 > "jlsue" <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message 4 > news:6eeaiv03sf3akkc0ghroe0b534vtohilr0@4ax.com...C > > On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 16:09:10 GMT, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>h wrote: >  > ...k >dC > > >2) That all public documents from Compaq until the date of theeE > > >announcement indicated a substanital chip performance and system D > > >advantage for Alpha over IA64 for as far out as any foreseeable time+ > > >horizon could be reasonably predicted.  > >D< > > But chip performance is only one metric that makes for a
 successful= > > business.  When they say that it would be better than thea competition, itsE > > needed to be MUCH better than the competition to have real impactd to grow F > > the business.  During the huge market boom we weren't able to grow theoD > > business for Alpha... in a downturn they could only expect it to get hit 
 > > worse. >eF > Utter crap (since John was too polite to characterize it thus).  The Tru64d@ > business was growing at a 30% annual rate (far faster than its largerA > competition) at the end of the dot-com boom, *despite* Compaq'so neglecthF > (though Tru64 wasn't neglected as much as VMS was - and even VMS was growingtA > modestly during that period with no marketing whatsoever).  And- while Tru64-@ > offered some features that other Unixes lacked, its popularity undoubtedlyl> > was in at least large part due to the performance that Alpha
 provided (ande% > that Tru64 took full advantage of).a >oF > As already noted elsewhere, the Alpha business was *not* hit hard by the endn= > of that boom:  it only disintegrated when the Alphacide wase
 announced.E > Considering that a full 2 years later Itanic sales still don't even/ registerE > on anyone's radar screen (and thus hardly would have affected Alphah by now -A > whether they *ever* would have remains conjectural), with *any* 
 reasonableB > support Alpha systems could have been riding very high right now (far higher-E > than they did while they were nearly single-handedly keeping Compaq< afloat> > back in Y2K despite Compaq's lack of appreciation for them). >) > ...e >tF > > >3) A stated 25-year minimum life span for Alpha (whether that was fromE > > >the date somebody first thought of an Alpha-like architecture ing 1961@ > > >;-)  or from the date of first-ship in 1992 can be argued). > >uF > > So what?  The chip certainly had that capability, but the business didn't.n >  > Once again:  utter crap. >h > ...s >eF > > >6) The sudden impact the announcement had on sales of Alpha & VMSD > > >which in the minds of many customers created a very real threat to the? > > >survival of VMS, notwithstanding the greasy similitudes of  Capellas tosF > > >the contrary. In other words, FUD of Comapq's own creation due to< > > >distrust of the organization and the senior management. > > >- > >-F > > Hokay.... now it's two years later, re-stated AlphaServer roadmaps are.! > > being implemented as planned,m > C > No, they are not.  EV7 was slipped (for no stated reason that I'm8	 aware of:.D > the obvious suspicion is that HP didn't want it to over-shadow the McKinleyC > launch) from Q3, 2002 (the stated date as of January, 2002 - welli after D > testing and verification after the June, 2002 first silicon should haveB > reduced surprises to a minimum) to January, 2003, and shipped at slightlyF > lower than planned clock speed.  EV79 was then gutted:  slipped from Q1, D > 2004 to late 2004, clock speed cut back from 1.6 - 1.7 GHz to 1.45 GHz, andD > on-chip cache reduced to EV7's 1.75 MB from the 3 MB that had been planned. >c0 >  customers can still get the systems they needE > > (and many are), and the IA64 port is going very well.  Customer'so see thatE > > they'll be able to move from alpha to IA64 if/when they determinew it's
 > > best.. >pD > That hardly addresses those who didn't want to have to migrate *at all*. E > And the marginalization of EV7 and EV79 puts pressure even on thosee whoo? > might have been happy had the restated roadmaps actually beenn honored. > D >   Much of the FUD spread about what CPQ/HPQ intended to do to/withB > > VMS have proven to be false ("The port of OpenVMS to IA64 will never. > > occur"). >iD > To be technically correct, that assertion will not be proven until someA > customer has actually purchased VMS V8.2.  But what may be more- important to@ > many customers is whether any significant VMS development will continue > *after* that point.     ) Here's  a little more grist for the mill:   E I'm working with three rather large customers at this point in time -hE all financial institutions, and two of the three run mission-critical(F apps on VMS (not their whole business, but some key portions that haveA to be available). I am pitching all three institutions with threeP> additional applications from our portfolio, all to run on VMS.  C In discussions with the CTO's of two of those customers, I hear the B words (and these are as verbatim as I can do without having a tape recorder in the meetings):E  "We're not sure if we can trust HP to continue to develop VMS beyondPB the first release on the Intel chip. We've seen their roadmaps andD while we believe that they will release VMS on Intel we are not sureB what will happen after that. We don't think HP has shown long-termD buy-in to the idea of VMS because they are not promoting the productD and widening the market for it. Our bank advertises its products andC services because we want to gather new customers for those productsmC and services, to expand our market share, and to show our customerslF that we are committed to those lines of business for the long-term. WeF don't see that from HP. It's too bad because our VMS environment works< well, but unless there's a noticeable change in HP's visibleF commitment to VMS, our next generation platform for these applications will not be VMS."a  E As to the third customer I'm dealing with, they currently have an app A on Solaris that they need to replace because the app is so poorly0E engineered. So I go in to talk with them about our app and they start7F getting excited about it because it has virtually everything they need> out-of-the-box and is a properly designed n-tier app with realE auditability and scalability designed in from the bottom up. We don't E say anything about what it runs on. Their first operating environmentt% question is, "It runs on Sun, right?"v  C Wrong question. The first thing out of their mouths ought to be "It : runs on VMS, right?" But that's something only HP can makeA happen...not ISV's, not partners...only HP.... by advertising ande$ promoting VMS to the world at large.  D HP, sorry that you have to bear the cross of the failings of DigitalE and Compaq in not advertising and marketing/promoting the use of VMS,oD but it comes with the territory. As the saying goes, 'When the going! gets tough, the tough get going.'    Time to get going HP.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 12:13:29 -0400d* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>Y Subject: Re: Intel's had Dirty Bombs Anthrax and everything! (Was: Re: HP World: Why Alphl) Message-ID: <3F269D28.B27D774B@istop.com>e   John Smith wrote:i  N BTW Mr John Doe, could you please trim the quotes to only the relevant portion instead of quoting everything ?g  G >  "We're not sure if we can trust HP to continue to develop VMS beyondi& > the first release on the Intel chip.  N Wow, I am not the only one with that thought. Not that having thoughts similar* to that of bankers makes me feel any good.  F > and widening the market for it. Our bank advertises its products andE > services because we want to gather new customers for those productsuE > and services, to expand our market share, and to show our customersaF > that we are committed to those lines of business for the long-term.   J Banks have been known to terminate certain types of bank accounts, forcingK customers to move to a more expensive type of bank account. (remember thoseeJ bank accounts with no charges for widthdrawals and no monthly fees ?). AndM where HP is far above banks is that banks are also very trigger happy when itx comes to terminating customers.h  N (What's the point of lending to farmers if you'll bankrupt them the first weekL when there is no rain?). Or if talking about New York Banks, they also screwN with their own employees (such as Morgan Stanley framing an employee for fraudL and sending him to prison because he posed naked in a magazine and they knewN they didn't have the right to fire him for that, so they hired someone to cook> his books... And that came from very high up the organisation.    G > say anything about what it runs on. Their first operating environmentt' > question is, "It runs on Sun, right?"   M To me, it is a sign that Sun has succeeded in even getting a "good enough for N banks" image. Consider how banks felt about any Unix 8 to 10 years ago. It wasJ just for students, geeks, plenty of security problems, unreliable etc. AndM now, banks think of Sun first when it comes to modern applications. (with the2) legacy core banking still safely on IBM).c  N The fact that Sun STILL has that image with enterprise customers tells me thatJ Sun still has a very good chance of recovering from its current slump. But= should Sun not recover, that image will eventually fade away.o  < > runs on VMS, right?" But that's something only HP can makeC > happen...not ISV's, not partners...only HP.... by advertising and & > promoting VMS to the world at large.  L No. That is something only a company such as Sun wiuth no vested interest inL Wintel can make happen. HP is too mired in its own systems to want to market  another product against its own.    F > HP, sorry that you have to bear the cross of the failings of DigitalG > and Compaq in not advertising and marketing/promoting the use of VMS,r    N HP chose this handling, right from day one when Carly and Curly decided not toN mention VMS once during the merger pregnancy, and to allow folks like StallardL to release memos on May 7th when Carly finally gave birth to the new HP thatM said that HP expevted VMS customers to migrate to HP-UX  eventually (at their  own speed etc etc).e  M HP chose this handling, when since the May 7th announcements, HP continued toRF avoid mentioning VMS, except when loyalists started to shout too loud.  G HP could have come in on day one and said "both Digital and Compaq have M mishandled products such as VMS and HP will make sure that VMS gets leverageddO to its maximum because this product has unique abilities that the world needs".i  H They could have said the above. But they chose "we'll honour the plan ofM record established by Compaq". When you consider that customers had just beeneM screwed/lied/deceived big time by Compaq, that is tantamount to saying "we'lln, continue to screw you just like Compaq did".  7 Seems to me that there are only 2 logical explanations:   J Either Carly is truly stupid and didn't realise that continuing the Compaq$ "plan of record" was a huge mistake, ORL Carly was very smart and knew exactly what she was doing, in which case, all% VMS customers should fear the future.G  I And consider that all those articles Keith Parris mentioned had such raveoQ reviews of Carly's abilities. That would seem to point to Carly being very smart.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 14:35:05 GMT & From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net>; Subject: Re: Migrate obsolete VAX/VMS SW to OpenVMS Itaniumy8 Message-ID: <agvcivk6a2ch9s8dvii69nu3fd8b6eae7m@4ax.com>  H On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 20:28:36 -0400, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote:     >  >rN >The beauty of Windows is that being able to reliably run only one applicationG >at a time, manufacturers reap the benefits because they sell new boxesiB >whenever a customer needs to add a new application and that makesL >manufacturers look better on paper because their wintel-centric business is, >measured in number of wintel units shipped.  D This sounds great.  Wow, I can hear the ocean in the background, the1 flowers blooming and fragrant.... then I wake up.o  K For businesses enamored by the cheap pricing of wintel servers, and putting F single apps on a box (and some apps require multiple boxes), things goE great until you get to some knee in the cost/benefit/marginal returns  curve.  H The more systems you have to manage, the more people it takes, and  thisK becomes non-linear at some point for almost all businesses.  One big reason H is that most business do not have proper processes and procedures (think ITIL/ITSM).c  H But it's also the nature of the beast.  With hundreds of systems, you'veI got to apply hundreds of patches and fight hundreds of fires, and replaceeI all of this on a regular basis to keep up.  When code red hit, many, manysK in-house IT groups were hit hard because so many servers were available andtG needed to be patched (and of course, some were under people's desks and   nobody in IT knew they existed).  G Fewer, larger servers with multiple applications per box is a much moreIJ cost-effect implementation long-term, assuming growth (which includes mostG businesses/schools/govt offices, etc).  The problem is beating the ISVseI over the head so that they clean up their act and write code that behavesn properly.     A In the VMS world we usually only had to stop/restart a particularmI application when it misbehaved.  those process quotas were great.  In the-B windows world, though, a misbehaving app often means bad things to& everything running on the same system.  E I still believe that businesses should pursue the multiple-app server4G infrastructure, and just beat on the ISVs to be smarter/better at theirn jobs.l   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 12:19:41 -0400n* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>; Subject: Re: Migrate obsolete VAX/VMS SW to OpenVMS Itanium ) Message-ID: <3F269E9B.9D46B163@istop.com>r   jlsue wrote:J > But it's also the nature of the beast.  With hundreds of systems, you'veK > got to apply hundreds of patches and fight hundreds of fires, and replaceg, > all of this on a regular basis to keep up.  L But that isn't the problem of the people who make the buying decisions. TheyI have a capital budget to work with and that budget allows them to buy all*N those wintel boxes for less than serious boxes. They don't care that this willN result in much more manpower requirements because that is payroll related, notJ a capital expenditure. Besides, they can argue that it is a necessary evilM because geting manpower for serious systems is expensive and difficult, while4M they can (and unfortunatly do) get "windows experts" right out of high schoold very easily.  M (Of course, the fact that they hire folks very well vered in running games oneH windows doesn't help the situation). I have a feeling that if they hiredL extremely competent, experience folks to run their windows crap, it would beL far less troublesome because those senior people would know better and closeG up all the gaping holes, turn off all those dangerous features etc etct   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 10:54:17 +0000 (UTC)t$ From: THIS$THAT <nobody@spamcop.net> Subject: Re: Model Update Plan/ Message-ID: <bg5jop$bqg$1@grandcanyon.binc.net>y  F On Mon, 28 Jul 2003 23:18:49 +0000 (UTC) (Bradford J. Hamilton) writes > ! Anyone care to9 > ! share their update plan as a possible model solution?e >6; >I've not had a problem yet using the following "solution":u >nJ >- Backup your system disk before the "update" (Standalone Backup is best,
 >  of course)S >hK >- Perform the update, using the "new" PCSI qualifiers discussed elsewhere.n  ; 	So verifying that you can boot from what you believe to be 9 	your sole bootable CD doesn't form part of the solution?t   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 11:57:44 +0000 (UTC)e7 From: hamilton@Encompasserve.org (Bradford J. Hamilton)s Subject: Re: Model Update Plan/ Message-ID: <bg5nfo$cvd$1@grandcanyon.binc.net>o  V In article <bg5jop$bqg$1@grandcanyon.binc.net>, THIS$THAT <nobody@spamcop.net> writes:G !On Mon, 28 Jul 2003 23:18:49 +0000 (UTC) (Bradford J. Hamilton) writesp !> ! Anyone care too: !> ! share their update plan as a possible model solution? !>< !>I've not had a problem yet using the following "solution": !>K !>- Backup your system disk before the "update" (Standalone Backup is best,3 !>  of course) !>L !>- Perform the update, using the "new" PCSI qualifiers discussed elsewhere. !r< !	So verifying that you can boot from what you believe to be: !	your sole bootable CD doesn't form part of the solution?  O I'm sorry, I don't understand the question.  If you choose to use S/A backup as K part of your solution, then yes, you will be verifying that you can indeed, O boot from your bootable CD; but I didn't understand that requirement as being aw& necessary part of your original query.  M I mentioned elsewhere in my previous post that I did successfully back out ofeM an update by reverting to a non-S/A backup of my system disk, but I certainlyiK can't "guarantee" that solution will work flawlessly.  If you have concerns M about patching a production system where data integrity is paramount, then by:C all means, be cautious and use S/A backup as part of your solution.:  O If you have concerns about booting from a bootable CD, then you should probablyuO acquire another as a "backup".  Every time I've had to boot from a bootable CD, C the CD has worked flawlessly (of course, YMMV).  Or am I completelye misunderstanding your question?    ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 14:41:11 +0000 (UTC)r$ From: THIS$THAT <nobody@spamcop.net> Subject: Re: Model Update Plan/ Message-ID: <bg6127$fd0$1@grandcanyon.binc.net>.   Bradford J. Hamilton wrote:wO >In article <bg5jop$bqg$1@grandcanyon.binc.net>, THIS$THAT <nobody@spamcop.net>  >writes: > , >I'm sorry, I don't understand the question.  D The meat of it is using product install to apply the upgrade and theD right set of patches in the right order which is considerably helped4 by the patch summaries.  See my skeleton plan below.  = What I may (wrongly) be seeing as difficulties is some of thewF preliminaries.  For instance config files.  Some will have been editedD and saved back through a search list to the wrong place.  So a checkD against a list of definitive locations seems needed.  Another prelimD is the CD bootstrapping, as the CD's on the LAN rather than directly	 attached.:  E The one query with the set of patches is XFC.  I'm upgrading from 7.3ZE to 7.3-1 and XFC is supposed to be defaulted on in 7.3.  Vcc_flags isiE 2 in current, but show memory /cache says no volumes in full XFC.  Sos' I think I need the XFC but am not sure.a  C Perhaps others who have done upgrades before can help me improve my( sekeleton upgrade plan below.     C 1.  Check configuration file locations to assure their preservation   D 2.  Clean out scratch disk (3558222 blocks used of 14215302 on dka0)  ) 3.  Apply VMS 7.3-1 Alpha upgrade from CDH  
 4.  Reboot  # 5.  Apply TCPIP 5.3 upgrade from CDc  
 6.  Reboot  ? 7.  Apply dec-axpvms-vms731_pcsi-v0100--4.pcsi-dcx_axpexe fromtk http://ftp.support.compaq.com/patches/public/vms/axp/v7.3-1/dec-axpvms-vms731_pcsi-v0100--4.pcsi-dcx_axpexet  
 8.  Reboot  G 9.  Apply /save dec-axpvms-vms731_update-v0100--4.pcsi-dcx_axpexe fromrm http://ftp.support.compaq.com/patches/public/vms/axp/v7.3-1/dec-axpvms-vms731_update-v0100--4.pcsi-dcx_axpexe   
 10. Reboot  D 11. Apply /save dec-axpvms-vms731_lan-v0600--4.pcsi-dcx_axpexe fromj http://ftp.support.compaq.com/patches/public/vms/axp/v7.3-1/dec-axpvms-vms731_lan-v0600--4.pcsi-dcx_axpexe  
 12. Reboot  D 13. Apply /save dec-axpvms-vms731_rms-v0400--4.pcsi-dcx_axpexe fromn http://ftp.support.compaq.com/patches/public/vms/axp/v7.3-1/decdec-axpvms-vms731_rms-v0400--4.pcsi-dcx_axpexe  
 14. Reboot  F 15. Apply /save dec-axpvms-tcpip_eco-v0503-182-4.pcsi-dcx_axpexe fromv http://ftp.support.compaq.com/patches/public/vms/axp/v7.3-1/tcpip/5.3/dec-axpvms-tcpip_eco-v0503-182-4.pcsi-dcx_axpexe  I 16. Apply /save dec-axpvms-vms731_cdrecord-v0100--4.README, OpenVMS fromap http://ftp.support.compaq.com/patches/public/vms/axp/v7.3-1/dec-axpvms-vms731_cdrecord-v0100--4.pcsi-dcx_axpexec   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 15:38:14 +0000 (UTC)w7 From: hamilton@Encompasserve.org (Bradford J. Hamilton)d Subject: Re: Model Update Plan/ Message-ID: <bg64d6$g9l$1@grandcanyon.binc.net>e  V In article <bg6127$fd0$1@grandcanyon.binc.net>, THIS$THAT <nobody@spamcop.net> writes: !snip!E !The meat of it is using product install to apply the upgrade and therE !right set of patches in the right order which is considerably helpedv5 !by the patch summaries.  See my skeleton plan below.,  / Thanks! This clears up a number of questions...e   ! > !What I may (wrongly) be seeing as difficulties is some of theG !preliminaries.  For instance config files.  Some will have been editeduE !and saved back through a search list to the wrong place.  So a checktE !against a list of definitive locations seems needed.  Another prelim E !is the CD bootstrapping, as the CD's on the LAN rather than directlya
 !attached.  H Can't speak to that one - my CD's have been driectly attached for years.  F !The one query with the set of patches is XFC.  I'm upgrading from 7.3F !to 7.3-1 and XFC is supposed to be defaulted on in 7.3.  Vcc_flags isF !2 in current, but show memory /cache says no volumes in full XFC.  So( !I think I need the XFC but am not sure.  N The display you speak of does not really say what you think it says - you *do*N have XFC enabled currently.  See the archives of c.o.v. for discussion of this phenomenon.u  N Since you are talking about an O/S and layered products upgrade, as well as anO application of the latest patches, I can tell you what I do (I just did this ins late June):.  F Obtain and read carefully the Installation and Upgrade manual from hp: (Warning: wrapped URL!)o  9 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/731FINAL/DOCUMENTATION/PDF/i OVMS_731_alpha_install.PDF  N Follow this guide carefully; I've used it (and its predecessors) to do severalI O/S upgrades, and never had a problem.  I've not needed a separate rebootsG between O/S and TCP/IP stack; I think you can do them at the same time.h  O After you've completed the upgrade of the O/S and TCP/IP stack, perform anothervO system disk backup, install the "new" PCSI patch, then the latest UPDATE patch,sO the LAN patch, and the TCP/IP ECO (use the "new" PSCI qualifiers for the UPDATEsJ and LAN patch - I don't know about the TCP/IP ECO - I don't use the TCP/IPN stack from hp).  Do you *really* need the CDRECORD?  If so, do that one, too.  Then reboot.  J I have not experienced a problem grouping the "rebootable" patches; I meanK applying them one after the other (in the proper order), and then rebootinglO after they have all been applied.  Others will tell you to be more cautious; iftO this is a production system, you may wish to be cautious, and reboot after eachd patch that requires a reboot.   N Once you have your system the way you want it, you may want to perform anotherO backup of the system disk, almost as a "baseline" for subsequent patches.  SomeoN folks may consider this overkill, but if you have the time and media, why not? !snip!   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Jul 2003 05:18:03 -0700$ From: issinoho@slayme.com (issinoho)0 Subject: Moving cluster whilst maintaing quorum.= Message-ID: <d0141774.0307290418.1128bc86@posting.google.com>e  ? I have a 2-node cluster where each Alpha is connected to an HSDoE storage unit with a single DSSI interconnect. The 2 storage units aresC also DSSI-connected directly together. Both Alphas are connected tor6 the LAN. A disk in the HSD is acting as a quorum disk.  E My task is to physically move the whole assembly to another location. C Question: can this be achieved while maintaining cluster quorum. It-C seems to me a little bit like the fox & chickens crossing the riverU puzzle.m  D Scenario: (1) power down and move Alpha 1, cluster quorum maintainedE by quorum disk & Alpha 2, (2) power up Alpha 1 and rejoin cluster via9B ethernet, (3) power down and mover HSD units, quorum maintained byE both Alphas over ethernet, (4) assemble HSD units with Alpha 1 (can Il? pull the HSD connections in and out of the Alphas while they'remA running?), (5)  power off and move Alpha 2, cluster maintained bya. Alpha 1 and quorum disk, (6) power up Alpha 2.  D I *know* something's gotta be wromg with that. can any bright sparks
 help me here?e   Many Thanks.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 15:56:34 +0100k* From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]>4 Subject: Re: Moving cluster whilst maintaing quorum.' Message-ID: <bg61qs$e95$1@lore.csc.com>-   issinoho wrote:  > A > I have a 2-node cluster where each Alpha is connected to an HSD.G > storage unit with a single DSSI interconnect. The 2 storage units are0E > also DSSI-connected directly together. Both Alphas are connected to18 > the LAN. A disk in the HSD is acting as a quorum disk. > G > My task is to physically move the whole assembly to another location.hE > Question: can this be achieved while maintaining cluster quorum. It E > seems to me a little bit like the fox & chickens crossing the riverh	 > puzzle.k > F > Scenario: (1) power down and move Alpha 1, cluster quorum maintainedG > by quorum disk & Alpha 2, (2) power up Alpha 1 and rejoin cluster viaiD > ethernet, (3) power down and mover HSD units, quorum maintained byG > both Alphas over ethernet, (4) assemble HSD units with Alpha 1 (can IeA > pull the HSD connections in and out of the Alphas while they'regC > running?), (5)  power off and move Alpha 2, cluster maintained by20 > Alpha 1 and quorum disk, (6) power up Alpha 2.  G I've left the whole lot in as its on context and required by the reply.n  F If you are running a recent version of VMS you can use the REMOVE_NODEF option which will force a quorum recalculation after removing the voteG from the node leaving the cluster. (Some early versions did not do thiso8 right, but I don't know for sure which, pre 6.2 I think)  D If you had SCSI connected disks, then, with luck, you could probablyD pull the connections and your systems will most likely remain up andH your data will not be harmed. But here's a quandary, if the system is soE critical that you can't afford to take it down, can you really affordhH the risk involved with pulling hardware from a like system, things couldD go wrong, I've seen it crash systems before now. (The issue of disks( mounted or dismounted has been ignored).  E However, in your case you are running with DSSI, and I would stronglynD discourage you from pulling/disconnecting/reconnecting anything on aH live DSSI bus, as it'll most likely pop the PICA fuses, killing the bus. Hardware call.  @ So, using the network is a good idea, shutting down in the way IE described will maintain your quorum, move one of your systems, reboot B and allow it to form a cluster over the network, and, use the same, shutdown procedure to move your second node.  G All this is in the ideal world. If you rely on your systems doing this,iC then you test it all and rehearse it. As you are doing this for the E first time, there are no guarantees that something won't trip you up.   F With your shared DSSI, I recommend a full cluster shutdown, disconnectH the DSSI, boot up the system you're NOT moving (perhaps a conversationalD SYSGEN parameter adjust to enable the system to run), move the otherH system, boot it up, and shutdown the remaining system using REMOVE_NODE,
 then move it.c  E Unfortunately, due to the shared DSSI I don't think you'll be able toc4 get away without a complete power off at some point.   -- w? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencesa nclews at csc dot comt   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 12:28:14 -0400h* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>4 Subject: Re: Moving cluster whilst maintaing quorum.) Message-ID: <3F26A09C.53CAD68B@istop.com>    Nic Clews wrote:G > However, in your case you are running with DSSI, and I would stronglyeF > discourage you from pulling/disconnecting/reconnecting anything on aJ > live DSSI bus, as it'll most likely pop the PICA fuses, killing the bus. > Hardware call.  L When I had some DSSI drives installed in a neat little enclosure next to theJ VAXen, the installer forgot to plug in the terminator. They ran fine for a- couple of days before a failure was noticed. .  L If you power off the DSSI enclosure, I think it would be then fairly safe to disconnect it from a machine.n  M You may want to make use of mount verify timeout values. If node 1 remains UP-K after node 2 has been shutdown, then when you power off the disk enclosure,aL each drive should go into mount verify timeout as soon as an io is attemptedM to it, essentially freezing node 1. But when you bring the enclosure back up,c= the mount verify should complete and node 1 continue to work.   M What happens to quorum if a quorum disk goes into mount verification ? Is arenK the votes held by the drive lost or maintained during mount verification ? r  M If they are lost, you would then have to make sure that the surviving node is ! fully able to survive on its own.o  N Out of curiosity though, is there m=uch of a point in keeping a node up if itsL disk drives become off-line for some time ? (for instance, during the move).M Or do you have dual enclosures for your DSSI drives, allowing you to move onea at a time ?i   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 18:42:50 +0100"( From: "John Travell" <john@jomatech.com>4 Subject: Re: Moving cluster whilst maintaing quorum.9 Message-ID: <bg6c0p$jrogm$1@ID-120847.news.uni-berlin.de>e  7 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in messages# news:3F26A09C.53CAD68B@istop.com...g > Nic Clews wrote:I > > However, in your case you are running with DSSI, and I would strongly H > > discourage you from pulling/disconnecting/reconnecting anything on aL > > live DSSI bus, as it'll most likely pop the PICA fuses, killing the bus. > > Hardware call. >eJ > When I had some DSSI drives installed in a neat little enclosure next to thedL > VAXen, the installer forgot to plug in the terminator. They ran fine for a. > couple of days before a failure was noticed. > K > If you power off the DSSI enclosure, I think it would be then fairly safet to > disconnect it from a machine.l >aL > You may want to make use of mount verify timeout values. If node 1 remains UPB > after node 2 has been shutdown, then when you power off the disk
 enclosure,D > each drive should go into mount verify timeout as soon as an io is	 attemptedtK > to it, essentially freezing node 1. But when you bring the enclosure back  up,l? > the mount verify should complete and node 1 continue to work.e >   J It looks like you may be missing a detail about 'mount verify timeout' (or" maybe didn't mean what you wrote).J When a drive is put into mount verify a special i/o is issued to the driveJ that is set to timeout after a specified period (I leave you to guess whatL this period is ;-). If that i/o actually does timeout the system effectively declares the drive dead.  J If you want to be able to sustain continuous operation you had better haveK the drives back online *before* mvt/o occurs. If mvt/o occurs first, beforerJ the disks are ready in their new location you just blew it. You _might_ be able to get away with aa $ dismount/abort ddcu:H and try to re-mount them, but this is likely to require the applicationsG accessing those disks to be re-started, and maybe even a reboot just to  recover access to them.e   -- John Travell  VMS crashdump expertise for hire john@jomatech.comi +44-(0)23-92552229 http://www.jomatech.com/       --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A Version: 6.0.504 / Virus Database: 302 - Release Date: 24/07/2003-   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 10:00:41 GMTy' From: Colin Blake <colin@theblakes.com>y, Subject: Re: Mozilla... the new NULL process< Message-ID: <dBrVa.5070$gn6.1023597@news1.news.adelphia.net>   Chris Scheers wrote:  6 >Are the sources somewhere where I could look at them? >eF GTK and Mozilla are both open source. www.gtk.org and www.mozilla.org.  I Its GTK which does most of the polling work and has the "idle loop", but  F there's a couple of places in Mozilla too which uses the X connection ? number in a poll/select to get woken up when something happens.a   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 07:17:51 GMTc6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) Subject: Re: MSA10001 Message-ID: <zcpVa.6536$2j1.59539@news.chello.at>   b In article <JolVa.43436$7O4.938922@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>, "Mike Naime" <mnaime@kc.rr.com> writes:I >I would suggest that you get an HSG80 (MA8000/EMA12000, EMA16000) if you F >really want something that has a proven functionality record with VMSK >systems.  The MA8000 sounds like a similar configuration to the MSA1000 (3 G >14 bay shelves)  But your expansion and configuration options are muchgG >simpler, and  you do not NEED the SAN appliance that the EVA requires.r  N I second that. Especially when one has seen (refurbished) HSG80 for $500 @EBAY  G Needing an appliance for the HSV is not the only disadvantage (though IrK admit, that the HSV is fast[er]). I wonder how many of you already replacedfO the HSGs with HSVs and think now that "downgrading" to HSG is the way to go ;-)C   -- o Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialistn E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------   Date: 29 JUL 2003 15:17:52 GMT4 From: karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher) Subject: Re: MSA10006 Message-ID: <29JUL03.15175243@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>  @ In a previous article, Alan Frisbie <Abuse@NelsonUSA.com> wrote:  B ->Likewise!   One question I have is whether there is a controllerA ->that is compatible with the AlphaServer 1000A.   We're going toe@ ->eventually get an ES4x, but I can squeeze an MSA1000 into this? ->year's budget if I can make it work on the 1000A.   This willtD ->actually make it easier to justify the ES4x on next year's budget!  F Hi Alan. The newer 64 bit 2GB HBA's aren't going to work in an AS1000.H The older 32 bit 1GB KGPSA-BC is supported (can't have a PB2GA-Jx in the same system though).   --G -- Carl Karcher, Waisman Computing Services, Waisman Center, UW-Madison 4 --             karcher.nomorespxm@waisman.wisc.edu     ------------------------------    Date: 29 Jul 2003 10:21:10 -07001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)a Subject: Re: MSA1000= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0307290921.752030c3@posting.google.com>t  \ Alan Frisbie <Abuse@NelsonUSA.com> wrote in message news:<3F258ADA.7070404@NelsonUSA.com>...6 > One question I have is whether there is a controller0 > that is compatible with the AlphaServer 1000A.  F Just do search at the http://www.hp.com website for "Alphaserver 1000AE Supported Options List".  I don't know which model of 1000A you have,eC but even the oldest (4/2xx) models at least support the KGPSA Fibreg Channel host bus adapter.n   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Jul 2003 05:08:55 -0700$ From: sblade@spectrum-edge.com (CM-)3 Subject: NEWBIE Q: How to work with a PACKAGE file? = Message-ID: <99e9c851.0307290408.6b01769f@posting.google.com>    Hi All,   C I came across a OpenVMS file with the extension of .PACKAGE which InE want to install. However, I'm new to OpenVMS systems and have no idea  on how install the .PACKAGE.  6 What are the commands for unpacking the .PACKAGE file?  F If I use a text editor, I can see once I unpacked the .PACKAGE file, IE would get a .c file. Now I assume, similar to unix, I need to compile F the .c file into a binary. Again, what are the commands to compile the .c file?  E Sorry if my questions sounds very basic, but I looked over the online.= manual and can't seem to find any pointers. Please help. TIA.d   CM-r   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 12:32:20 GMTy3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond)e7 Subject: Re: NEWBIE Q: How to work with a PACKAGE file?h1 Message-ID: <oPtVa.1028$b32.960@news.cpqcorp.net>   d In article <99e9c851.0307290408.6b01769f@posting.google.com>, sblade@spectrum-edge.com (CM-) writes:	 >Hi All, t >rD >I came across a OpenVMS file with the extension of .PACKAGE which IF >want to install. However, I'm new to OpenVMS systems and have no idea >on how install the .PACKAGE.l  3 PACKAGE is not a "standard" OpenVMS file extension.,  % How did you "come accross" this file?  What do you think it contains?  G Your question may be better put to whoever provided you with this file.    --  J       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Jul 2003 07:38:34 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)b7 Subject: Re: NEWBIE Q: How to work with a PACKAGE file?h3 Message-ID: <1QHFPP7dhTJ3@eisner.encompasserve.org>   d In article <99e9c851.0307290408.6b01769f@posting.google.com>, sblade@spectrum-edge.com (CM-) writes:  E > I came across a OpenVMS file with the extension of .PACKAGE which InG > want to install. However, I'm new to OpenVMS systems and have no idean > on how install the .PACKAGE. > 8 > What are the commands for unpacking the .PACKAGE file?  E That is not a common extension.  Contacting the vendor might be best.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 09:31:11 -0500 * From: Lyle West <lwww@spamnot.mninter.net>7 Subject: Re: NEWBIE Q: How to work with a PACKAGE file?a3 Message-ID: <3F263EDF.18566AA7@spamnot.mninter.net>f  
 CM- wrote: > 	 > Hi All,c > 8 > What are the commands for unpacking the .PACKAGE file? > 3 > ... what are the commands to compile the .c file?n >   C Andy Harper's King College archive have .PACKAGE files as VMS_SHAREt archives...   6 $! ------------------ CUT HERE -----------------------/ $ v='f$verify(f$trnlnm("SHARE_UNPACK_VERIFY"))'  $! $! This archive created: $!  Name : AXP-DRIVER-EXAMPLEt1 $!  By   : Andy Harper <udaa055@elm.cc.kcl.ac.uk> " $!  Date : 17-JUN-1993 17:25:08.12G $!  Using: VMS_SHARE 8.4, (C) 1993 Andy Harper, Kings College London UKa  .  .  < $! TO UNPACK THIS SHARE FILE, CONCATENATE ALL PARTS IN ORDER2 $! AND EXECUTE AS A COMMAND PROCEDURE  (  @name  ) $!9 $! THE FOLLOWING FILE(S) WILL BE CREATED AFTER UNPACKING:a/ $!       1. [.AXP-DRIVER-EXAMPLE]DRIVER.NOTES;1 / $!       2. [.AXP-DRIVER-EXAMPLE]KMDRIVER.COM;1p/ $!       3. [.AXP-DRIVER-EXAMPLE]KMDRIVER.MAR;1n5 $!       4. [.AXP-DRIVER-EXAMPLE]KMDRIVER_ALPHA.COM;1e   So to unpack file... $ create /dir [.tmp] $ rename/log *.package [.tmp]  $ set def [.tmp]5 $ @zzz.package  (replace zzz with appropriate string)n  D There may be a build.com ,compile.com or read.me file in the archive, which will build the exe or show what to do.     --  @ Lyle W. West                             lwww(at)mninter(dot)net   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 08:45:09 +0200h From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>) Subject: Re: NEWBIE: DECWindows Bit Depth-2 Message-ID: <bg55at$6bb$1@news3.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:K > The PCI and AGP versions of this card should be available (single headed)aL > right now.  Multi-headed 2 and 3D should be available in ~ a month.  It isK > supported on all EV6 and EV7 based platforms except TurboLaser (8xxx) andhM > the XP1000.  The XP1000 firmware was not updated, so while we don't supporte+ > it - a single head Radeon 7500 will work.n >  > Public Service Announcement: > L > Only the HP card is "supported".  Off-the-shelf 7500's will probably work,D > but we do not test them (cards can vary from bugs/revisions/memoryL > speeds/memory sizes), and if you have any problems -- don't call us unlessI > you can reproduce it on an HP card.  Besides, your purchase of the card 3 > allows us to continue providing graphics for VMS.w >  >  > N For professional use I agree with Fred. However as hobbyists we always try to F find cheaper of-the-shelf alternatives, be it for disks, memory, SCSI G controllers or whatever. And we tend not to have a hardware & software hL maintenance contract on our hobby machine. Even if we want to, we can't buy K 'official' HP stuff, because most 'partners' don't sell to private persons.i   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 07:58:43 -0700t# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>o Subject: NT Clusters9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIEELBHKAA.tom@kednos.com>o  E Learned yesterday that a 3-node NT clusters starts at $1 million!  IfiJ you used VMS clustering with Pathorks is there any way to balance the load ofL NT applications?  I don't think so.  But it certainly sounds like a business opportunity. ---e& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.502 / Virus Database: 300 - Release Date: 7/18/2003   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 17:21:31 +0100a* From: Dave Brennan <nospam@edcworks.co.uk> Subject: Re: NT Clusters8 Message-ID: <uq5div8h3do62cu00s76er8eq4nh5jcs3f@4ax.com>  $ "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote:  F >Learned yesterday that a 3-node NT clusters starts at $1 million!  IfK >you used VMS clustering with Pathorks is there any way to balance the loade >ofeM >NT applications?  I don't think so.  But it certainly sounds like a businesst
 >opportunity.. >---  C Tom your clearly hanging out with the wrong type of people when yousB use such words as "NT", "Cluster"  and "3-node" in the comp.os.vms group!    & How long have you had this death wish?          @ Dave[dot]Brennan[at]edcworks[anotherdot]co[dotagain]uk[<cr><lf>]   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 12:24:25 -0400P' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com>t Subject: RE: NT ClustersR Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB0C79EB@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   >=20 > -----Original Message------ > From: Tom Linden [mailto:tom@kednos.com]=20  > Sent: July 29, 2003 10:59 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comu >=20= > Learned yesterday that a 3-node NT clusters starts at $1=20 @ > million!  If you used VMS clustering with Pathorks is there=20= > any way to balance the load of NT applications?  I don't=20 A > think so.  But it certainly sounds like a business opportunity.  > ---)( > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.< > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).B > Version: 6.0.502 / Virus Database: 300 - Release Date: 7/18/2003 >=20 >=20   Tom,  F Advanced Server for OpenVMS can certainly do load balancing across all? three nodes when serving Windows based file-n-print shares (notcB applications). You can use TCPIP Services or TCPware / Multinet IP products for this.  F In addition, you get a file-n-print service whereby you do not need toC worry about the x86 server virus's and break-ins that are so commond these days.   B There is a  Customer in Europe with a production 4 node ES40 Alpha@ Advanced Server environment supporting 6,000 file-n-print users.   Regardsl  
 Kerry Main Solutions Architect  Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.! Consulting & Integration Servicesc Voice: 613-592-4660k Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 10:27:09 -0700G# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>l Subject: RE: NT Clusters9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKELGHKAA.tom@kednos.com>e   >-----Original Message-----s- >From: Main, Kerry [mailto:kerry.main@hp.com]e% >Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 9:24 AM  >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >Subject: RE: NT Clusterso >l >  >> >> -----Original Message-----s+ >> From: Tom Linden [mailto:tom@kednos.com]a >> Sent: July 29, 2003 10:59 AM2 >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >>; >> Learned yesterday that a 3-node NT clusters starts at $1 > >> million!  If you used VMS clustering with Pathorks is there; >> any way to balance the load of NT applications?  I don'tiB >> think so.  But it certainly sounds like a business opportunity. >> ---) >> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. = >> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). C >> Version: 6.0.502 / Virus Database: 300 - Release Date: 7/18/2003g >> >> >  >Tom,  >oG >Advanced Server for OpenVMS can certainly do load balancing across allc@ >three nodes when serving Windows based file-n-print shares (notC >applications). You can use TCPIP Services or TCPware / Multinet IPe >products for this.   F That is not what I was wondering about.  In this case, this is a largeH Northeast Bank/Brokerage that has a lot of nt applications (trading, for example)K and they are planning to put in a geographically distributed NT cluster forp
 redundancyL and load balancing.  I was surprised at the high price for the NT cluster so/ I was not so rhetorically wondering out load ifrH there was any way to use a VMS cluster to distribute the (fait accompli) NT apps. >sG >In addition, you get a file-n-print service whereby you do not need to D >worry about the x86 server virus's and break-ins that are so common >these days. >sC >There is a  Customer in Europe with a production 4 node ES40 Alpha A >Advanced Server environment supporting 6,000 file-n-print users.h >r >Regards >c >Kerry Maini >Solutions Architect >Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.u" >Consulting & Integration Services >Voice: 613-592-4660 >Fax   : 613-591-4477h >Email: Kerry.Main@hp.comh >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).iA >Version: 6.0.502 / Virus Database: 300 - Release Date: 7/18/2003g >t --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.502 / Virus Database: 300 - Release Date: 7/18/2003   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 11:08:39 GMTr" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG3 Subject: Re: OT: Rolling Stones permanently stained10 Message-ID: <00A23928.B80C87D0@SendSpamHere.ORG>  X In article <1030728235613.1344A-100000@Ives.egh.com>, John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> writes:% >On Mon, 28 Jul 2003, JF Mezei wrote:  >uN >> This week, the Rolling Stones are holding a benefit concert to help rebuild. >> the devastated Toronto economy due to Sars. >> sO >> They are also plastering the media with ads, and the one song that they keepeC >> on using is the Microsoft "Start me up". (Remember Windows 95 ?)p >> bN >> It is interesting how much damage the Rolling Stones did to themselves whenP >> they allowed Gates to use that song since 8 years later. Hearing that song isP >> still a major irritant to me. I would certaintly avoid their concerts if theyT >> were to play that song. They should have burried it after the Microsoft campaign. >y
 >Hey, JF - >iI >Listen to the lyrics - especially the chorus "You make a grown man cry!"t >r >:-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)   It's also a facetious lie:   "if you start me  if you start me upe  I'll never stop."  M ...or perhaps just wishingful thinking on the part of the _C_ult of _R_edmondr _A_bject _P_rogramming!c   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMo            d5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" f   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 18:26:14 +0000 (UTC)e From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk+ Subject: Re: Packed decimal arithmetic in C>) Message-ID: <bg3ps5$icr$3@news.mdx.ac.uk>D  f In article <bg3apm$kgvsn$1@ID-120847.news.uni-berlin.de>, "John Travell" <john@travell.uk.net> writes: >tI >"Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in messageu. >news:jIkNbQoNB2Q0@eisner.encompasserve.org...K >> In article <bfs9e5$ieqqm$1@ID-120847.news.uni-berlin.de>, "John Travell"( ><john@travell.uk.net> writes: >> >M >> > For the benefit of us Brit's, to whom a penny is part of our currency, awK >> > coin valued at precisely 100th part of one pound sterling, can someone 9 >> > explain EXACTLY what America refers to as a 'penny'.- >>H >>    US penny is 1/100 of a US dollar.  For the last several decades itF >>    looks to be made out of copper, but hasn't been solid copper for >>    quite a while. >> >b$ >Clearly the problem is terminology.M >I now understand that 'penny' is the unofficial slang or common (?) use namew9 >for the unit of currency 'officially' known as the Cent.  >HI >It looks like at least some yanks cannot completely shake off their brito
 >heritage :-)l >o5 Except us brits only went decimal in the early 1970s.gJ There were 240 old pennies to the pound. 12 pennies to the shilling and 20 shillings to the pound.f    
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   >s >--l
 >John Travell	! >VMS crashdump expertise for hire  >john@jomatech.com >+44-(0)23-92552229b >http://www.jomatech.com/t >s >t >? >---' >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).tB >Version: 6.0.504 / Virus Database: 302 - Release Date: 24/07/2003 >o >l   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 18:48:03 +0100o( From: "John Travell" <john@jomatech.com>+ Subject: Re: Packed decimal arithmetic in Cu9 Message-ID: <bg6c0q$jrogm$2@ID-120847.news.uni-berlin.de>p  + <david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk> wrote in messagea# news:bg3ps5$icr$3@news.mdx.ac.uk...eJ > In article <bg3apm$kgvsn$1@ID-120847.news.uni-berlin.de>, "John Travell" <john@travell.uk.net> writes:: > > K > >"Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in messagev0 > >news:jIkNbQoNB2Q0@eisner.encompasserve.org...D > >> In article <bfs9e5$ieqqm$1@ID-120847.news.uni-berlin.de>, "John Travell"  > ><john@travell.uk.net> writes: > >> >C > >> > For the benefit of us Brit's, to whom a penny is part of oury currency, a E > >> > coin valued at precisely 100th part of one pound sterling, can0 someoner; > >> > explain EXACTLY what America refers to as a 'penny'.d > >>J > >>    US penny is 1/100 of a US dollar.  For the last several decades itH > >>    looks to be made out of copper, but hasn't been solid copper for > >>    quite a while. > >> > >m& > >Clearly the problem is terminology.J > >I now understand that 'penny' is the unofficial slang or common (?) use name; > >for the unit of currency 'officially' known as the Cent.  > >eK > >It looks like at least some yanks cannot completely shake off their briti > >heritage :-)s > >o7 > Except us brits only went decimal in the early 1970s.oL > There were 240 old pennies to the pound. 12 pennies to the shilling and 20 > shillings to the pound.  >t  Decimal ? Wozzat ? :-) er, um...A Most of us have lost the 'new' off the 'new-pence' that came withAI decimalisation, and in truth most people under 40 have probably forgotten 0 there ever was more than 100 pence in a pound. !! Plural - Pence, Singular - Penny.7     -- John Travell  VMS crashdump expertise for hire john@jomatech.com  +44-(0)23-92552229 http://www.jomatech.com/       --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A Version: 6.0.504 / Virus Database: 302 - Release Date: 24/07/2003e   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 08:22:44 GMTn4 From: Brian Inglis <Brian.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca>$ Subject: Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates8 Message-ID: <akbcivoupo8e031pb1toi662r85au3ttoh@4ax.com>  : On Sun, 27 Jul 2003 20:58:35 -0400 in alt.sys.pdp11, Glenn) Everhart <Everhart-nospam@gce.com> wrote:x  I >People who wanted to use BASIC in those days often found ways to get to dE >a pdp10 terminal. That's one reason Bill Gates transliterated pdp10 oI >BASIC (listings were readily available from DEC back then) as the story - >goes.  ; Sound like the basis for an DEC/Compaq/HP suit against MS? l  9 Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis 	Calgary, Alberta, Canadao -- cF Brian.Inglis@CSi.com 	(Brian dot Inglis at SystematicSw dot ab dot ca),     fake address		use address above to reply   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 08:39:06 GMTa4 From: Brian Inglis <Brian.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca>$ Subject: Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates8 Message-ID: <uobcivohfi28330ba56lge5k1cfvliftor@4ax.com>  : On Sun, 27 Jul 2003 20:58:35 -0400 in alt.sys.pdp11, Glenn) Everhart <Everhart-nospam@gce.com> wrote:e  D >There was still a fight for memory by some of the makers of core asC >late as 1975 or 76. The original DEC MOS memory for pdp11 had someaE >batches that had flaky errors and at that time the process was stillx >(in retrospect) settling down.-  A IIRC the MOS memory cards had timing problems, on 11/70s at leastt: -- a couple of US engineers spent a week touring^Wvisiting? Scotland to shoot problems with the hardware and diagnostics --e@ they spent most of the time they were in our office on the phone back to the home office. s  I >The term "RAM" got popular only as micros got more prominent, which was   >a couple years later.  < IIRC RAM was not commonly used until after the IBM PC became? popular in the early 1980s; and it was only used to refer to PCa> memory, usually with the D prefix. The S prefix became popular0 when external caches were added to the 386/486.   9 Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis 	Calgary, Alberta, Canadas -- bF Brian.Inglis@CSi.com 	(Brian dot Inglis at SystematicSw dot ab dot ca),     fake address		use address above to reply   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 09:57:22 GMTn4 From: Brian Inglis <Brian.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca>$ Subject: Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates8 Message-ID: <moccivcdni8vgrcbdo0k4kv12kj3dvrgeq@4ax.com>  > On Tue, 29 Jul 2003 02:44:25 GMT in alt.sys.pdp11, John Sauter <J_Sauter@Empire.Net> wrote:  . >cstacy@dtpq.com (Christopher C. Stacy) wrote: > G >RAM...that's disk, right?  (As opposed to the sequential access memory  >provided by magnetic tape.) >w >John Sauter responded:o >d: >No, RAM means memory whose access time does not depend onC >the address of the previously accessed location.  Neither disk norn4 >tape qualify, but core and semiconductor memory do.  8 Neither do delay lines or drums, but Williams tubes do.   D >Before the invention of core, computer memory was often implementedD >using a disk.  When an instruction completed its execution, the CPUG >would wait until the address of the next instruction rotated around tolD >the read head so it could fetch that instruction.  This wasted timeA >could be avoided by placing instructions in memory such that thenD >next instruction was about to reach the read head when the previousC >instruction was completed.  It was before my time, but I have been > >told that the IBM 650 had an assembler called SOAP that wouldD >do this optimization for you.  I count SOAP as the first high-level >computer language.   < The IBM 650 was the Magnetic Drum Calculator/Data Processing? Machine, designed for punched card processing. Options includedt: the 653 Auxiliary High Speed Storage Unit (core), 355 Disk, Storage Units, and 727 Magnetic Tape Units.   ? Single words of instructions or data were fetched from the drumlA and executed or operated on, or written to the drum. This is whatt" required the timing optimizations.  @ Tapes and disks were used to load blocks of instructions or data% into core, where they were executed. s  ? Drum timing optimization was done by hand on machine code usingu> (female) clerical staff originally, then as symbolic assembler@ codes became useful, timing optimization was usually included in assemblers for drum machines.   8 These assemblers were no more an HLL than any optimizing@ assembler created more recently to use shorter instruction forms9 where possible or schedule instructions to avoid resource)# conflicts and improve performance. t  > The first generally recognized HLLs appear to be the Autocodes available on various machines. s  9 >The invention of core memory made SOAP (and the IBM 650)t
 >obsolete.  = Core was available on the 650 from 1955 (all of 60 words == 1i< disk track), and they were built at a rate of one a day from< 1956, until the last of nearly 2000 650s was manufactured in 1962.   < http://www-1.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/650/650_intro.html  9 Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis 	Calgary, Alberta, Canadam -- iF Brian.Inglis@CSi.com 	(Brian dot Inglis at SystematicSw dot ab dot ca),     fake address		use address above to reply   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 11:10:00 GMTi' From: John Sauter <J_Sauter@Empire.Net>a$ Subject: Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates8 Message-ID: <qkkcivskeai58j9ol1lqmr2kc1v7nv8tqe@4ax.com>  .  cstacy@dtpq.com (Christopher C. Stacy) wrote:  C Could you provide some references to your claim that disk preceededp core?l  > As far as I know, the first hard disk was IBM's RAMAC in 1956,; but magnetic core memory was invented by Forrester in 1949,b6 and IBM was selling their model 737 core unit in 1954.   John Sauter responded:  > I was a bit sloppy in my terminology.  The IBM 650 used a drum: memory, which is like a disk except the heads do not move.  9 I did a quick Google search for "IBM 650" and found IBM'so history site at < http://www-1.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/650/650_intro.html  ? I did not know that there was a core memory option for the 650,n< or that it was still being manufactured until 1962.  Here is6 a quotation from that web site about the memory of the IBM 650:  E "The console is the heart of the 650 system. In it is a magnetic drumtF memory unit in the form of a cobalt-nickel plated metal cylinder whichF revolves at 12,500 RPM. Available in two models, the memory drum has aE storage capacity of either 20,000 or 40,000 digits of information. TohC solve a problem or process information a set of instructions -- the . program -- is designed and stored on the drum.  A "These instructions are read by the machine in sequence and inputaE information is stored and processed as directed by that sequence. Thee@ average access time to data or instructions on the magnetic drum; memory is 2.4 milliseconds -- 2.4 thousandths of a second."   * Thanks for the challenge, I learned a lot.%     John Sauter (J_Sauter@Empire.Net)    ------------------------------   Date: 29 Jul 2003 12:19:53 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)$ Subject: Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates9 Message-ID: <bg5op9$kurhq$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>   8 In article <moccivcdni8vgrcbdo0k4kv12kj3dvrgeq@4ax.com>,7 	Brian Inglis <Brian.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca> writes:u > > > The IBM 650 was the Magnetic Drum Calculator/Data ProcessingA > Machine, designed for punched card processing. Options includedo< > the 653 Auxiliary High Speed Storage Unit (core), 355 Disk. > Storage Units, and 727 Magnetic Tape Units.   @ Damn, I remember 727 Magnetic Tape Units.  I guess that makes me6 even more of a dinosaur than my love of PDP-11's.  :-(  ? > Core was available on the 650 from 1955 (all of 60 words == 1s> > disk track), and they were built at a rate of one a day from> > 1956, until the last of nearly 2000 650s was manufactured in > 1962.   > I don't remember the 650, but the 727 was still in use (and in@ IBM training manuals) at least through 1968 when I took my first computer training.   bill    -- iJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 29 Jul 2003 12:23:09 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)$ Subject: Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates9 Message-ID: <bg5ovd$kurhq$2@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>,  8 In article <uobcivohfi28330ba56lge5k1cfvliftor@4ax.com>,7 	Brian Inglis <Brian.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca> writes:i > > > IIRC RAM was not commonly used until after the IBM PC becameA > popular in the early 1980s; and it was only used to refer to PC @ > memory, usually with the D prefix. The S prefix became popular2 > when external caches were added to the 386/486.   ? I could always go up to the attic tonite and grab a copy or twoa? of my old computing magazines (which pre-date the IBM PC) to beo? sure, but I seem to remember the terms RAM, DRAM and Static RAM:0 being common before IBM got into the Micro game.   bill   -- :J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   a   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Jul 2003 05:41:16 -0700+ From: shoppa@trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa)I$ Subject: Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates= Message-ID: <bec993c8.0307290441.60a3010c@posting.google.com>o  g John Sauter <J_Sauter@Empire.Net> wrote in message news:<f8nbivohatodf2p3ac7tdjoigir7ac8uc5@4ax.com>...r/ > cstacy@dtpq.com (Christopher C. Stacy) wrote:  > H > RAM...that's disk, right?  (As opposed to the sequential access memory > provided by magnetic tape.)  >  > John Sauter responded: > ; > No, RAM means memory whose access time does not depend ona2 > the address of the previously accessed location.  H If you want to be picky, modern Synchronous RAM (like you have in any PCI you've bought in the past 5 years) has an access time that depends on the F previous address accessed due to the pipeline between the DRAM and the bus interface.  J Most DRAM's in the past 3 decades could be accessed in a shortcut way thatI sped up access to data in the same page as the last access.  (RAS and CAS L extend back to the early 70's, right?  I don't think they were around on theI few dynamic RAM chips available in the late 1960's... of course back theno7 dynamic FIFO's were the rule instead of the exception.)e  ? So maybe none of us have been buying "real RAM" for decades :-)o   Tim.   ------------------------------   Date: 29 Jul 2003 13:09:39 GMT( From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva)$ Subject: Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates2 Message-ID: <bg5rmj$1kel$1@citadel.in.taronga.com>  8 In article <akbcivoupo8e031pb1toi662r85au3ttoh@4ax.com>,6 Brian Inglis  <Brian.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca> wrote:; >On Sun, 27 Jul 2003 20:58:35 -0400 in alt.sys.pdp11, Glenno* >Everhart <Everhart-nospam@gce.com> wrote:J >>People who wanted to use BASIC in those days often found ways to get to F >>a pdp10 terminal. That's one reason Bill Gates transliterated pdp10 J >>BASIC (listings were readily available from DEC back then) as the story  >>goes.n  < >Sound like the basis for an DEC/Compaq/HP suit against MS?   I Not likely, since that's not the story that was going around at the time.a   That being:l  B It was Paul Allen rather than Bill Gates who was the technical guyB at the original Microsoft, and who produced the original MS Basic.  F The program allegedly plundered by Microsoft was a hobbyist Basic, not DEC's version.  H Getting on for thirty years later, now, memories are fuzzy. There's veryF little on paper or oxide to refer to, so even if there was a kernel ofI truth it's far too late: any sane lawyer (yes, yes, I know, insert lawyeroC joke here) would advise against stirring the pot at this late date.n   -- oH Rev. Peter da Silva, ULC.	 29.6852N 95.5770W                       WWFD?  F "Be conservative in what you generate, and liberal in what you accept" 	-- Matthew 10:16 (l.trans)s   ------------------------------   Date: 29 Jul 2003 13:56:18 GMT/ From: Thomas Dickey <dickey@saltmine.radix.net> $ Subject: Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates* Message-ID: <bg5ue2$lov$1@news1.radix.net>  7 In comp.os.vms Douglas A. Gwyn <DAGwyn@null.net> wrote:y > Thomas Dickey wrote:A >> In comp.os.vms Glenn Everhart <Everhart-nospam@gce.com> wrote:fL >>>Back then of course you'd spend a few thou to buy 16K words (16 bits) of L >>>memory. It was common to refer to memory as "core" back then, whether it I >>>was made of MOS or ferrite, so pervasive had core become for a while. b. >> perhaps you did (or recall people who did).- >> I didn't, and did not know anyone who did.M  = > Glenn's right; "main" memory was often termed "core" memory5; > regardless of the technology used.  After all, "core" hasc> > more than one meaning and the non-ferrite one fit very well.  M awai: common usage "dumped core" on unix doesn't mean that people referred to0 it that way on other systems.-   --  = Thomas E. Dickey <dickey@radix.net> <dickey@herndon4.his.com>t http://dickey.his.com: ftp://dickey.his.com   ------------------------------  ! Date: Tue, 29 Jul 03 12:55:40 GMT. From: jmfbahciv@aol.comt$ Subject: Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates+ Message-ID: <bg5ufn$oe4$3@bob.news.rcn.net>r  2 In article <bg5rmj$1kel$1@citadel.in.taronga.com>,,    peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) wrote:9 >In article <akbcivoupo8e031pb1toi662r85au3ttoh@4ax.com>,i7 >Brian Inglis  <Brian.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca> wrote:o< >>On Sun, 27 Jul 2003 20:58:35 -0400 in alt.sys.pdp11, Glenn+ >>Everhart <Everhart-nospam@gce.com> wrote:0K >>>People who wanted to use BASIC in those days often found ways to get to jG >>>a pdp10 terminal. That's one reason Bill Gates transliterated pdp10 nK >>>BASIC (listings were readily available from DEC back then) as the story @ >>>goes. >i= >>Sound like the basis for an DEC/Compaq/HP suit against MS? E >6J >Not likely, since that's not the story that was going around at the time. >h >That being: >TC >It was Paul Allen rather than Bill Gates who was the technical guy C >at the original Microsoft, and who produced the original MS Basic.  >mG >The program allegedly plundered by Microsoft was a hobbyist Basic, not  >DEC's version.c  ? <shrug>  I don't know where DEC got the BASIC.  Never paid muchn@ attention to that product.  IIRC, the BASIC which ran on the -10' at my university was Dartmouth's BASIC.d    I >Getting on for thirty years later, now, memories are fuzzy. There's verywG >little on paper or oxide to refer to, so even if there was a kernel of J >truth it's far too late: any sane lawyer (yes, yes, I know, insert lawyerD >joke here) would advise against stirring the pot at this late date.  G And moot since we didn't do much about copyrights until the 80s.  A lotc> of that stuff was [emoticon grasps for phrase] eminent domain.  5 Due to Billyboy wannabes, they got NT without a peep.    /BAH    ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.A   ------------------------------  ! Date: Tue, 29 Jul 03 13:03:15 GMT  From: jmfbahciv@aol.comp$ Subject: Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates+ Message-ID: <bg5utt$oe4$5@bob.news.rcn.net>   * In article <bg5ue2$lov$1@news1.radix.net>,3    Thomas Dickey <dickey@saltmine.radix.net> wrote:t8 >In comp.os.vms Douglas A. Gwyn <DAGwyn@null.net> wrote: >> Thomas Dickey wrote:TB >>> In comp.os.vms Glenn Everhart <Everhart-nospam@gce.com> wrote:J >>>>Back then of course you'd spend a few thou to buy 16K words (16 bits)  of hJ >>>>memory. It was common to refer to memory as "core" back then, whether  it iJ >>>>was made of MOS or ferrite, so pervasive had core become for a while. / >>> perhaps you did (or recall people who did).7. >>> I didn't, and did not know anyone who did. >s> >> Glenn's right; "main" memory was often termed "core" memory< >> regardless of the technology used.  After all, "core" has? >> more than one meaning and the non-ferrite one fit very well.  >sL >awai: common usage "dumped core" on unix doesn't mean that people referred  to >it that way on other systems. >h? TOPS-10 viewed them as crash dumps.  We also used the term coreiC to mean memory, especially since code could be on disk temporarily.e; If code was "in core", it meant that it wasn't swapped out.n   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.-   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 14:45:08 +0000 (UTC)u. From: dfevans@bcr10.uwaterloo.ca (David Evans)$ Subject: Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates/ Message-ID: <bg619k$67r$1@tabloid.uwaterloo.ca>e  9 In article <bg5ovd$kurhq$2@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>,n) Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote:V@ >I could always go up to the attic tonite and grab a copy or two@ >of my old computing magazines (which pre-date the IBM PC) to be@ >sure, but I seem to remember the terms RAM, DRAM and Static RAM1 >being common before IBM got into the Micro game.d >   D   Likewise.  That's certainly how memory maps of the CBM micros were2 described ("ROM lies at $E000-$FFFF" or whatever).   -- iM David Evans          (NeXTMail/MIME OK)             dfevans@bbcr.uwaterloo.calM Ph.D. Candidate, Computer/Synth Junkie     http://bbcr.uwaterloo.ca/~dfevans/ M University of Waterloo         "Default is the value selected by the composercM Ontario, Canada           overridden by your command." - Roland TR-707 Manual.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 11:39:14 -0400g% From: John Hudak <jhudak@sei.cmu.edu>M$ Subject: Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates/ Message-ID: <bg64f3$59b$1@usenet02.sei.cmu.edu>E   Brian Inglis wrote:a< > On Sun, 27 Jul 2003 20:58:35 -0400 in alt.sys.pdp11, Glenn+ > Everhart <Everhart-nospam@gce.com> wrote:a >  > E >>There was still a fight for memory by some of the makers of core as D >>late as 1975 or 76. The original DEC MOS memory for pdp11 had someF >>batches that had flaky errors and at that time the process was still  >>(in retrospect) settling down. >  > C > IIRC the MOS memory cards had timing problems, on 11/70s at leastr< > -- a couple of US engineers spent a week touring^WvisitingA > Scotland to shoot problems with the hardware and diagnostics --9B > they spent most of the time they were in our office on the phone > back to the home office. H >  > J >>The term "RAM" got popular only as micros got more prominent, which was  >>a couple years later.1 >  > > > IIRC RAM was not commonly used until after the IBM PC becameA > popular in the early 1980s; and it was only used to refer to PCA@ > memory, usually with the D prefix. The S prefix became popular2 > when external caches were added to the 386/486. D Beg to differ.....If you were a hardware engineer in the early 70's D developing systems with Intel's 4004's, the memory data sheets were E entitled '...RAM' These devices were fabricated using MOS technology.0H The terms 'static' and 'dynamic' RAM came into popular usage around the H time the apple IIc came out...(1977 I think). Computer architecture was E being taught to EE students via trainers like the KIM-1 and SYM-1 in oI 1977, and they learned the terminology.  Dynamic RAM was cheaper and one tB of Woz's tricks at Apple was to use the video refresh rate as the F refresh for the dynamic RAM, thus making the Apple cheaper to produce.G  From my perspective, there was no terminology distinction whether you !@ were talking about 'PC memory' or memory on a 'real' machine....  D To some extent, people would throw around (i.e. interchange) memory G fabrication technology with memory access techniques which, might have oF been understood by the general population but the engineers designing @ these things had to be very specific in their usage and meaning.     John    ; > Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis 	Calgary, Alberta, CanadaX   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Jul 2003 23:41:47 -0700, From: Georg.Nowak@sms-demag.de (Georg Nowak) Subject: Re: Problems with NFS= Message-ID: <e7d8e959.0307282241.2c9ad397@posting.google.com>.  Y Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message news:<bg34s4$fih$1@lore.csc.com>...p > Georg Nowak wrote: > J > > I'm trying to get NFS Maestro running with a VMS 7.3 machine (HP TCPIP> > > 5.1) and I'm always getting themessage "Bad Network Name". > > H > > So I decided to test if the NFS Server is running OK on VMS. I tried	 > > to do-J > > following mount on the same system, and i get following error message: > > B > > TCPIP> mount dnfs0: /host=10.136.6.28 /path="/dkc600/SMSdemag"@ > > %TCPIP$DNFSMOUNT-E-MOUNTFAIL, error mounting _DNFS7:[000000]% > > -SYSTEM-F-TIMEOUT, device timeouti > G > Isn't DNFS0 the template, try DNFS1:, or as this error states, DNFS7:lC > (Note: could be a bad steer, I've not tried mounting DNFS0 befores > perhaps it does work)  > C > As to your original error, you are using a 10.x.y.z address so be'I > careful which side of routers this address is expected to be used (i.e.i > you may need a bridge).y > H > Try replacing your 10.136.6.128 with 127.0.0.1 on the local system for > your testing.e > 2 > (I'm not an NFS expert, just a few suggestions).  
 Hello Nic,  A the system increases the _DNFS Name itself. So next time I calleddB mount, it sends the same message with _DNFS8. I tried to change toE 127.0.0.1 with DNFS1, but it didn't make a difference. I think I havenD to install the latest Version or at least the latest ECO for TCP/IP.   Thanks ! Georgl   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Jul 2003 09:58:20 -0700% From: rosj01@hotmail.com (James Ross)  Subject: Read MAG tape to disk= Message-ID: <9026b6ac.0307290858.2adbd970@posting.google.com>c  @ I have a PL/I application that write data to a  mag tape that is$ mounted using the following command:( mount/for/den=6250/block=2050 TAPE MUB0:  > When I extract the data out of the mag tape on disk using this command: copy MUB0: []file.dat;  E I get two extra bytes in the beginning of the file when I examine thea	 hex dump.n: The Hex dump command I perform is: dump/hex/byte file.dat; /out=file.dmp;   The two extra bytes are: 02 08  2 Any Idea as to why this happens and how to fix it?   Thanks   Julien.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 13:10:32 -0400t) From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.nospam@istop.com>V" Subject: Re: Read MAG tape to disk) Message-ID: <3F26AA82.86E5F48C@istop.com>    James Ross wrote:0B > I have a PL/I application that write data to a  mag tape that is& > mounted using the following command:* > mount/for/den=6250/block=2050 TAPE MUB0:  G > I get two extra bytes in the beginning of the file when I examine thel  > The two extra bytes are: 02 08  K Is it possible that the PL/1 application is generating some variable recordoJ structure, where the first 2 byte sindicate length of record ? Are there 2: bytes between each record or just at the top of the file ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 19:32:41 +0200 $ From: Michael Unger <unger@decus.de>" Subject: Re: Read MAG tape to disk9 Message-ID: <bg6b7i$l6ed9$1@ID-152801.news.uni-berlin.de>o  ' On 29-Jul-2003 18:58, James Ross wrote:-  B > I have a PL/I application that write data to a  mag tape that is& > mounted using the following command:* > mount/for/den=6250/block=2050 TAPE MUB0: > @ > When I extract the data out of the mag tape on disk using this
 > command: > copy MUB0: []file.dat; > G > I get two extra bytes in the beginning of the file when I examine theo > hex dump..< > The Hex dump command I perform is: dump/hex/byte file.dat; > /out=file.dmp; >   > The two extra bytes are: 02 08 > 4 > Any Idea as to why this happens and how to fix it?  ? Swap the two bytes, i.e., %X0802, and transform that to decimall8 notation, i.e. 2050, which is equal to the block length.   Michaelr   -- .  @ Please do *not* send "Security Patch Notifications" or "SecurityA Updates"; this system isn't running a Micro$oft operating system.0= And don't annoy me <mailto:postmaster@[127.0.0.1]> please ;-)l   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 15:39:33 GMTr& From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net>? Subject: Re: TCPIP$TRACEROUTE: A non-recoverable error occured. 8 Message-ID: <s65div864u361epgke62ggokt0om3iv6l0@4ax.com>  B On 25 Jul 2003 10:26:23 -0500, cornelius@encompasserve.org (George Cornelius) wrote:s  H >Don't you just love programs that give non-specific error messages, and1 >then report nothing useful in their exit status?l >-  J Yes, and I've seen many user-written C programs that do that, even on VMS.  H I had a customer who wanted me to tell them why their program would exit$ with "File Open Error" ...... ??????  G I suggested they recode their C to look at the appropriate VMS extended0K error return codes and signal those instead of just printing a generic text- message.  @ Unfortunately this is typical coding practice for many so-called developers.M   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 16:32:56 +0100A From: Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net>S Subject: Teergrube for VMS ?4 Message-ID: <bg6420$h3n$1$830fa7a5@news.demon.co.uk>   Gentle colleagues,  : harking back a few months, one of the topics of discussion9 was the idea of running a "Teergrube" (tarpit in English)e9 on VMS, the idea being to slow down spammers drastically.i  " Has anyone done anything on this ?  9 Reason being I'd like to run just such a beast on my homeu7 VMS cluster.  I suppose I could write my own ... but if-# someone's already done the work ...    Thanks in advance,  	 Roy Omonds Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Jul 2003 17:03:03 -00004 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]>  Subject: Re: Teergrube for VMS ?6 Message-ID: <20030729170303.18245.qmail@gacracker.org>  5 On Tue, 29 Jul 2003, Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net> wrote:  >Gentle colleagues,s > ; >harking back a few months, one of the topics of discussionh: >was the idea of running a "Teergrube" (tarpit in English): >on VMS, the idea being to slow down spammers drastically. >n# >Has anyone done anything on this ?n >o: >Reason being I'd like to run just such a beast on my home8 >VMS cluster.  I suppose I could write my own ... but if$ >someone's already done the work ...  K Unless someone's been working on it under wraps I think you're on your own.   $ But I'll volunteer as a beta tester.     Doc. -- iK OpenVMS.         Eight out of ten hackers prefer *other* operating systems.tK [New PGP Key - Get via finger]        http://deathrow.vistech.net/BOFH/doc/e   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 12:39:47 -0400 8 From: Jim Agnew - VCU/MCV Neurosurgery <jpagnew@vcu.edu>  Subject: Re: Teergrube for VMS ?' Message-ID: <3F26A353.8E698DAB@vcu.edu>a   Roy Omond wrote: >  > Gentle colleagues, > < > harking back a few months, one of the topics of discussion; > was the idea of running a "Teergrube" (tarpit in English)C; > on VMS, the idea being to slow down spammers drastically.V > $ > Has anyone done anything on this ? > ; > Reason being I'd like to run just such a beast on my homes9 > VMS cluster.  I suppose I could write my own ... but ift% > someone's already done the work ...s >  > Thanks in advance, >  > Roy Omond- > Blue Bubble Ltd.  D Teergrubes were talked about in this group a while back.  I got *NO* idea what became of that discussion.  Interesting, tho..1 -- sF "4,000 years ago I made a mistake."  Elrond Half-Elven, in "Fellowship of the Ring"  F "I try not to be right any more than necessary". -- Larry Wall, author of the Perl Language   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Jul 2003 12:57:45 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)   Subject: Re: Teergrube for VMS ?3 Message-ID: <eV6k1DkjHm7E@eisner.encompasserve.org>h  m In article <20030729170303.18245.qmail@gacracker.org>, Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> writes:c7 > On Tue, 29 Jul 2003, Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net> wrote:e >>Gentle colleagues, >>< >>harking back a few months, one of the topics of discussion; >>was the idea of running a "Teergrube" (tarpit in English)i; >>on VMS, the idea being to slow down spammers drastically.t >>$ >>Has anyone done anything on this ? >>; >>Reason being I'd like to run just such a beast on my home 9 >>VMS cluster.  I suppose I could write my own ... but ifs% >>someone's already done the work ...  > M > Unless someone's been working on it under wraps I think you're on your own.o > & > But I'll volunteer as a beta tester.  G It would be _easy_ to find field test sites, but much harder to justify0G creating such software.  The desire for such software does not exist ati2 the level where decisions to spend money are made.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 09:40:17 +0200l% From: "Igor" <igor.fosic@os.hinet.hr>i% Subject: the newest file in directorys) Message-ID: <bg58cr$9ss$1@ls219.htnet.hr>a   Hello, I am using OVMS 7.3.-1.nK I know for the option of dir/date command, but I want to get list with onlye then1 newest file in directory. Is it possible and how?w   Thanks.2 -e
 Igor Fosic http://free.os.htnet.hr/igor   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 04:56:51 -0400e* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>) Subject: Re: the newest file in directory ) Message-ID: <3F2636CF.E915361C@istop.com>s   Igor wrote:oM > I know for the option of dir/date command, but I want to get list with only  > thee3 > newest file in directory. Is it possible and how?F   DIR ;0  M This lists only the newest version of each file.  But it will not get you the ! most recently created file only. >  N For that, you may have to write a DCL procedure that uses F$SEARCH("*.*;0") to? go though the whole list of files, and for each file found, usecM F$FILE_ATTRIBUTES(file,"CDT") to get the creation date, and then use F$CVTIMEo8 to convert the creation date into one that is stortable.  K You can then compare that date against the date of the most recent file yousN have found so far. By the time you are done with the loop, you will have found, the file with the most recent creation date.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 10:56:52 +0100r( From: "John Travell" <john@jomatech.com>) Subject: Re: the newest file in directory 9 Message-ID: <bg5gm9$lag5b$1@ID-120847.news.uni-berlin.de>d  0 "Igor" <igor.fosic@os.hinet.hr> wrote in message# news:bg58cr$9ss$1@ls219.htnet.hr...  > Hello, > I am using OVMS 7.3.-1.lH > I know for the option of dir/date command, but I want to get list with only > theh3 > newest file in directory. Is it possible and how?e >a	 > Thanks.c > -u > Igor Fosic > http://free.os.htnet.hr/igor >b  	 Try doing  $ dir *.*;0a  I I don't know WHY it works, but ;0 refers to the highest version number oft each file present.     -- John Travell  VMS crashdump expertise for hire john@jomatech.coms +44-(0)23-92552229 http://www.jomatech.com/       ---s& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A Version: 6.0.504 / Virus Database: 302 - Release Date: 24/07/2003n   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 12:42:17 +0100h From: Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net>n) Subject: Re: the newest file in directoryt4 Message-ID: <bg5mhh$ip2$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk>   JF Mezei wrote: 
 > Igor wrote:t > M >>I know for the option of dir/date command, but I want to get list with onlye >>thea3 >>newest file in directory. Is it possible and how?a >  >  > DIR ;0 > O > This lists only the newest version of each file.  But it will not get you the # > most recently created file only. h  F Careful, careful ... it will give you the highest version number only,E which is not necessarily the newest version of each file (see below):n  P > For that, you may have to write a DCL procedure that uses F$SEARCH("*.*;0") toA > go though the whole list of files, and for each file found, useiO > F$FILE_ATTRIBUTES(file,"CDT") to get the creation date, and then use F$CVTIMEt: > to convert the creation date into one that is stortable. > M > You can then compare that date against the date of the most recent file youeP > have found so far. By the time you are done with the loop, you will have found. > the file with the most recent creation date.  E Careful, careful ... you'll need to use F$SEARCH("*.*;*") to get the 0 newest version.p   E.g.   	$ create x.x.23 	 Exit 	$ create x.x.22 	 Exit 	$ dire/dath 	Directory DSA0:[R]u- 	X.X;23               29-JUL-2003 12:38:04.370- 	X.X;22               29-JUL-2003 12:38:12.007   Note which is newer.  	 Roy Omond- Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 06:48:35 -0500c( From: brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon)) Subject: Re: the newest file in directoryt1 Message-ID: <03072906483592@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>i  	 Try this:1   $! $ cdt_save = ""r $ res_filespec_save = "" $ gosub find_filea5 $ write sys$output "newest file : ",res_filespec_save  $ exit $! $! $ find_file:! $ res_filespec = f$search("*.*;")t( $ if (res_filespec .eqs. "") then return, $ cdt = f$cvtime(f$file(res_filespec,"CDT")) $ if (cdt .gts. cdt_save)s $ then $   cdt_save = cdt$ $   res_filespec_save = res_filespec $ endifi $ goto find_file       J*o*h*n B*r*a*n*d*o*ns VMS Systems Administrator * firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 08:35:30 -0400 * From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com>) Subject: Re: the newest file in directoryu. Message-ID: <3F2631D2.24274.3285202@localhost>  # On 29 Jul 2003 at 9:40, Igor wrote:.M > I know for the option of dir/date command, but I want to get list with onlyv7 > the newest file in directory. Is it possible and how?t   $ DIR/DATE *.*;   B The trailing semicolon makes it look at the file with the highest  version number.d  E This won't show you the latest file if you've done something strange t
 like this:  0     PRINT_T9.LOG;9       27-JUN-2003 13:25:55.320     PRINT_T9.LOG;8       29-JUN-2003 13:22:43.150     PRINT_T9.LOG;7       25-JUN-2003 13:22:25.86  @ It will show you version 9, while version 8 is actually newer.  9 Typically, you have to *work* at creating this situation.t
 --Stan Quaylet Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------C Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363  Fax: +1 614 868-1671l1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147t= Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.comw   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Jul 2003 08:00:24 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)e) Subject: Re: the newest file in directoryi3 Message-ID: <zCqH6c7G1lx9@eisner.encompasserve.org>c  Q In article <bg58cr$9ss$1@ls219.htnet.hr>, "Igor" <igor.fosic@os.hinet.hr> writes:b > Hello, > I am using OVMS 7.3.-1.-M > I know for the option of dir/date command, but I want to get list with onlyl > thee3 > newest file in directory. Is it possible and how?   E    Exactly what do you mean by "newest"?  Perhaps you are looking forl    /since ?5   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Jul 2003 09:42:11 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) ) Subject: Re: the newest file in directoryo3 Message-ID: <MSx$8ET8$rLL@eisner.encompasserve.org>   [ In article <3F2631D2.24274.3285202@localhost>, "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com> writes:n% > On 29 Jul 2003 at 9:40, Igor wrote:cN >> I know for the option of dir/date command, but I want to get list with only8 >> the newest file in directory. Is it possible and how? >  > $ DIR/DATE *.*;h > D > The trailing semicolon makes it look at the file with the highest  > version number.o > G > This won't show you the latest file if you've done something strange   > like this: > 2 >     PRINT_T9.LOG;9       27-JUN-2003 13:25:55.322 >     PRINT_T9.LOG;8       29-JUN-2003 13:22:43.152 >     PRINT_T9.LOG;7       25-JUN-2003 13:22:25.86 > B > It will show you version 9, while version 8 is actually newer.    ; It also won't show you the latest file if somehow you did a    	RENAME PRINT_T9.LOG;	.LATESTe  ; > Typically, you have to *work* at creating this situation.   # My scenario is easier to create :-)m   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 16:37:52 GMTc# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> D Subject: VMS clusters anyone? An advertising & marketing opportunityC Message-ID: <ApxVa.137$hOa.29@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   9 It's July 29, time to read this week's Between The Lines.e< Business innovation powered by technology, brought to you by InformationWeek magazine.t    ; ** IT Confidential: Paranoid Or Prepared: You Make The Callo  ; Congress last week released a report on the Sept. 11, 2001, < attacks, and one thing that came through loud and clear was,? despite strong indications a terrorist attack was imminent, thel: agencies involved didn't act like it. That, and subsequent: developments in the world, are why the results of a HarrisA Interactive survey to be released this week are a bit unsettling.c  @ The poll, sponsored by SunGard Availability Services, queried 52B "C-level" executives at large companies, and **a third** say their8 firms aren't any more prepared now, in terms of businessA continuity and disaster recovery, than they were before Sept. 11.e  < Only 60% say their companies have teams designated to handleA information-continuity operations from remote locations, slightlyd= less than that have backup offices for workers displaced by aa> disaster, and a little more than half say their companies have: disaster-preparedness training for employees who deal with= information access. Just 2% believe a terrorist attack is thea= biggest threat to their ability to access information systemsc without interruption.s   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 06:52:32 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>u Subject: RE: Volume shadowing ?c9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIOEKMHKAA.tom@kednos.com>9   >-----Original Message----- 7 >From: David J. Dachtera [mailto:djesys.nospam@fsi.net]o$ >Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 7:42 PM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  >Subject: Re: Volume shadowing ? >d >s >Tom Linden wrote: >> , >> >-----Original Message-----. >> >From: Hoff Hoffman [mailto:hoff@hp.nospam]' >> >Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 2:56 PM  >> >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com # >> >Subject: Re: Volume shadowing ?I >> > >> > [snip]  >> > >> >    What is the device?  >> >    What is the error?> >> >    What particular problem(s) are you seeking to resolve? >> eJ >> I was thinking about populating a BA356 with Seagate 73GB drives, which >> wouldK >> be accessed by two PWS500's, one running 7.1-2 the other 7.3, but I willm	 >> have a  >> look at the FAQ, thanks.t > F >I'd be concerned about heat. Dunno what kind of heat those drives put0 >out, and dunno if the BA356 fans can handle it.  I They are the 1" drives which not only run a bit cooler but also allow for  better air circulation.v >a3 >Dual "beefy" power supplies might be needed, also.a  1 Redundancy is also a good thing, good suggestion..   > ' >Better check the heat/power spec.'s...s >o >--  >David J. Dachtera >dba DJE Systems >http://www.djesys.com/. > ) >Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:   >http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ >s >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.n; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).mA >Version: 6.0.502 / Virus Database: 300 - Release Date: 7/18/2003c >. --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.502 / Virus Database: 300 - Release Date: 7/18/2003   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.416 ************************