1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 31 Jul 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 419       Contents:= Re: %EIA0, unsupported vendor (something), device set offline = Re: %EIA0, unsupported vendor (something), device set offline % Re: .com file to zero out disk errors N Re: D.H. Brown: EV7 AlphaServers Deliver Enhanced RAS and Powerful PerformanceP Re: D.H. Brown: EV7 AlphaServers Deliver Enhanced RAS and Powerful Performance P Re: duplicating system disks eBay servers Re: eBay servers Re: Firewall for VMS Re: Firewall for VMS RE: Firewall for VMS Itanium performance news...  Re: Itanium performance news...  Re: Itanium performance news...  Re: Itanium performance news...  Re: Itanium performance news...  Re: Model Update Plan  Re: Model Update Plan + Re: Moving cluster whilst maintaing quorum. , Re: Need recommendations for a new tape silo Re: OpenVms Backup* Re: OT: Rolling Stones permanently stained* Re: OT: Rolling Stones permanently stained* Re: OT: Rolling Stones permanently stained* Re: OT: Rolling Stones permanently stained Re: Read MAG tape to disk  Re: RF31 hardware problem 2 Re: SMTP greylisting (was Re: Teergrube for VMS ?)2 Re: SMTP greylisting (was Re: Teergrube for VMS ?)2 Re: SMTP greylisting (was Re: Teergrube for VMS ?)2 Re: SMTP greylisting (was Re: Teergrube for VMS ?)3 Re: Sun tries to woo AlphaServer users away from HP 3 Re: Sun tries to woo AlphaServer users away from HP 3 Re: Sun tries to woo AlphaServer users away from HP 3 Re: Sun tries to woo AlphaServer users away from HP 3 Re: Sun tries to woo AlphaServer users away from HP 3 Re: Sun tries to woo AlphaServer users away from HP * Re: Third party volume shadowing products?* Re: Third party volume shadowing products? Re: Web Apps for VMS Re: Web Apps for VMS* Re: Yamahill? Prescott? Wot's it all mean?* Re: Yamahill? Prescott? Wot's it all mean?& Re: [Change topic -> OT] Pence/Pennies& Re: [Change topic -> OT] Pence/Pennies& Re: [Change topic -> OT] Pence/Pennies& RE: [Change topic -> OT] Pence/Pennies& Re: [Change topic -> OT] Pence/Pennies& Re: [Change topic -> OT] Pence/Pennies& Re: [Change topic -> OT] Pence/Pennies  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 19:13:58 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> F Subject: Re: %EIA0, unsupported vendor (something), device set offline' Message-ID: <3F285F46.C097FB4C@fsi.net>    Z wrote: > 2 > David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:L > : What VMS version was the box running before you booted up the CD? V7.1-2G > : may very well not understand Tx89s. Dunno. Even V7.2-2 doesn't have I > : /DENSITY keywords for it in DCL. The only machine I have that I could K > : examine that on is the Lab's production ES40. So, not exactly possible, 6 > : and may not be a valid test since you have a GS40. > ? > The system has 7.1-2 loaded on its system disk.  In fact, the @ > CD I'm booting from is (allegedly) the same CD used to install+ > VMS on the machine a couple of years ago.   H The system may have been patched to add device support (check the ECOs).  A > I'm not SURE the system is a GS-40... the Model # from the back  > is DH-58NRA-AK   Post the output of: ( $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$GETSYI( "HW_NAME" )   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 01:13:18 -0000 ! From: Z  <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> F Subject: Re: %EIA0, unsupported vendor (something), device set offline/ Message-ID: <vigr9eson47qa8@corp.supernews.com>   0 David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:M :> : What VMS version was the box running before you booted up the CD? V7.1-2 H :> : may very well not understand Tx89s. Dunno. Even V7.2-2 doesn't haveJ :> : /DENSITY keywords for it in DCL. The only machine I have that I couldL :> : examine that on is the Lab's production ES40. So, not exactly possible,7 :> : and may not be a valid test since you have a GS40.  :>  @ :> The system has 7.1-2 loaded on its system disk.  In fact, theA :> CD I'm booting from is (allegedly) the same CD used to install , :> VMS on the machine a couple of years ago.  J : The system may have been patched to add device support (check the ECOs).  , PRODUCT SHOW HISTORY lists about 20 patches.    B :> I'm not SURE the system is a GS-40... the Model # from the back :> is DH-58NRA-AK    : Post the output of: * : $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$GETSYI( "HW_NAME" )  C It's a DS-20E, according to the paperwork I found.  But that may be 4 wrong so I'll get the output you requested tomorrow.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 19:34:58 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> . Subject: Re: .com file to zero out disk errors' Message-ID: <3F286432.7A53C4A2@fsi.net>    Chuck Aaron wrote: >  > anyone have one.  @ Not a .COM file, but look at Hunter's freeware archive for ZDEC.  E Larry K. alludes to posts here from OVMS Engr. indicating that V7.3-2 ? will provide support for this from DCL (SET DEVICE extensions).    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 20:35:10 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> W Subject: Re: D.H. Brown: EV7 AlphaServers Deliver Enhanced RAS and Powerful Performance H Message-ID: <2_VVa.38887$rsJ.29103@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  3 "jlsue" <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message 2 news:itlfivk2gi2ema0k49d1127fb1rrrra25i@4ax.com... > C > It has taken them quite a long time to develop,  It's quite a bit  moreA > complex than Alpha design, so maybe that's reasonable slippage, 
 maybe not.@ > If they're committed to it, though, then I should still make a viable/ > product.  It's still too early to tell, imho.     E And what exactly is the backup plan for VMS users should IA64 hit the   fan? Windows 2003 Server on AMD?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 22:44:19 -0400 ) From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.nospam@istop.com> Y Subject: Re: D.H. Brown: EV7 AlphaServers Deliver Enhanced RAS and Powerful Performance P ) Message-ID: <3F288278.3EAC381F@istop.com>    Fred Kleinsorge wrote:L > Is the enterprise business in a down cycle?  Yes.  But after we finish ourN > transition to a single platform architecture, there won't be a profitability
 > problem.  N That is what, 10 years down the road ? How long will HP sell and how long will, it support MIPS, Alpha and Pa-RISC systems ?  L If any, IA643 makes HP's offerings ever more complex for the next few years.M Had HP chosen an existing platform such as Alpha, then costs would have begun N to go down almost right away. (Remember that Tandem was already in the processM of porting to Alpha, and HP would have needed only to port bits of HP-UX onto C Tru64 and rename Tru64 to HP-UX and the deed would have been done.    I The move to IA64 will add much burden to HP, a burden that will last well  after Carly's retirement.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 19:38:09 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) % Subject: Re: duplicating system disks 1 Message-ID: <B8VVa.1137$DW3.761@news.cpqcorp.net>   b In article <4skVa.43291$7O4.934305@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>, "Mike Naime" <mnaime@kc.rr.com> writes: : , :Z <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> wrote in message* :news:vi92h09vvvkdfe@corp.supernews.com...' :> Mike Naime <mnaime@kc.rr.com> wrote: K :> : (BACKUP/IMAGE/IGNORE=INTER SYS$SYSDEVICE: {target disk})   This way, I  :> ...H :> : Compaq/HP support is fine with this method since we have all of the	 :required  :>C :> They're fine with backing up the system disk while the system is " :> running with /ignore=interlock? :> :> I don't think so. : L :Yep.  We had a discussion with our Platinum suport TAMS and the EngineeringM :group recently about Backup/ignore=interlock.  The DR folks where wanting to J :know some specifics about file time stamps when using the backup command.H :Upon recieving theanswer from engineering that you are probably talkingJ :about.  I asked specifically about using it to CLONE an OS disk.  This isL :not a prefered method for making a system backup, but it is fine for makingE :a CLONE of the OS where you are going to be changing all of the node 8 :specific data prior to bringing up a new system pack...  C   I don't think so.  I expect you were told it *probably* works, as G   OpenVMS Engineering is likely *not* going to tell you it *will* work.   G   Everything that I and the engineer that is maintaining BACKUP here in D   OpenVMS have been discussing in this area back this up, too -- the9   result will *probably* work, it does *not* always work.   M :When you are dealing with a 24x7 data center, this is your best option for a  :no-downtime backup.  C   Like the oft-used "realtime" terminology, "24x7" means different     things to different folks.    B   Here, you will want to get a standalone BACKUP/IMAGE, then trackE   the upgrades you have made -- using /IGNORE=INTERLOCK will probably E   get you to a recoverable environment, but you have to know what you ?   are doing to rebuild it should you encounter a case where an  D   interlock you ignored causes your consistency problems.  And it isD   your own data that is obviously most critical here, and this is anE   area OpenVMS Engineering can give you relatively little guidance on F   use of /IGNORE=INTERLOCK around -- if your applications always writeE   to disk and there is minimal caching, /IGNORE=INTERLOCK will likely D   work fine.  If your applications are aggressive with caching, then@   /IGNORE=INTERLOCK can capture stale or inconsistent disk data.  E   If you are running "24x7", you need to look at shadowing and at RMS D   journaling products and at database-level archival options -- the C   former can reduce the window for getting a quick copy of a system E   disk -- and the latter two options can help recover from file-level B   errors that can arise.   Then there are discussions of power and:   access and hot sites and spares and recovery media, etc.  D   As for recovery (and assuming you have power, servers, and access,G   etc) I'd be looking at how to recover the core critical (application) B   data first, then outward to installing the layered products and A   operating system and ECOs.  And as I have often stated, I'd not +   first look to use /IGNORE=INTERLOCK here.   B   True "24x7" operations are a whole lot tougher to build than it    might initially look.     N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:46:15 -0500 / From: Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com>  Subject: eBay servers 3 Message-ID: <3F281277.773F49E5@applied-synergy.com>   F Some time ago there was discussion here that OpenVMS servers should be, pitched for eBay to replace the Sun servers.  @ I've noticed that the eBay pages now say "Powered by IBM".  What	 happened?   $ Did HP miss/ignore this opportunity?  G ----------------------------------------------------------------------- $ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  C Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com     Fax: 817-237-3074    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 21:23:04 GMT & From: Rick Jones <foo@bar.baz.invalid> Subject: Re: eBay servers 1 Message-ID: <YGWVa.1144$VX3.423@news.cpqcorp.net>   0 Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> wrote:E > Some time ago there was discussion here that OpenVMS servers should 1 > be pitched for eBay to replace the Sun servers.   B > I've noticed that the eBay pages now say "Powered by IBM".  What > happened?   F I not certain it is related, but the following exists on IBMs website:  X http://www-3.ibm.com/software/success/cssdb.nsf/CS/NAVO-5DFURA?OpenDocument&Site=default  D which describes IBM doing things for a web tier at eBay. It does notF mention what is running the back-end database.  I have no recollection4 what/who used to be "powering" the web tier at eBay.  
 rick jones --  = portable adj, code that compiles under more than one compiler F these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway... :)A feel free to post, OR email to raj in cup.hp.com  but NOT BOTH...    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 21:48:39 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)  Subject: Re: Firewall for VMS 1 Message-ID: <X2XVa.1152$ub4.573@news.cpqcorp.net>   i In article <bg5ns9$cvd$2@grandcanyon.binc.net>, hamilton@Encompasserve.org (Bradford J. Hamilton) writes: e :In article <1OsVa.98567$R92.12518@news2.central.cox.net>, "John Hayes" <hayes1966@yahoo.com> writes: ? :!Is there any software that you can use as a firewall on VMS ?  : N :This subject has been discussed a number of times in this forum, as recently K :as last month (use Google Advanced Groups Search to find the discussions).  : L :Is this topic a candidate for inclusion in the next version of the VMS FAQ?  I   At the arrival rate for this question, yes.  Do you or someone you know G   want to summarize the discussion for inclusion in the next edition of I   the OpenVMS FAQ?  (I've certainly got enough other stuff to write.)  If K   not, I will queue the article <Gx7Ba.1572$Du1.1292@news.cpqcorp.net>, and H   use that text as the basis for a firewall section in the next edition.  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 21:49:39 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)  Subject: Re: Firewall for VMS 1 Message-ID: <T3XVa.1153$ub4.138@news.cpqcorp.net>   i In article <bg5ns9$cvd$2@grandcanyon.binc.net>, hamilton@Encompasserve.org (Bradford J. Hamilton) writes: e :In article <1OsVa.98567$R92.12518@news2.central.cox.net>, "John Hayes" <hayes1966@yahoo.com> writes: ? :!Is there any software that you can use as a firewall on VMS ?  :! : P :This subject has been discussed a number of times in this forum, as recently asH :last month (use Google Advanced Groups Search to find the discussions). : L :Is this topic a candidate for inclusion in the next version of the VMS FAQ?  I   At the arrival rate for this question, yes.  Do you or someone you know G   want to summarize the discussion for inclusion in the next edition of I   the OpenVMS FAQ?  (I've certainly got enough other stuff to write.)  If K   not, I will queue the article <Gx7Ba.1572$Du1.1292@news.cpqcorp.net>, and H   use that text as the basis for a firewall section in the next edition.    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 15:17:57 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>  Subject: RE: Firewall for VMS 9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIGEOGHKAA.tom@kednos.com>   2 The arrival rate is probably only half as much 8-)   >-----Original Message----- + >From: Hoff Hoffman [mailto:hoff@hp.nospam] ' >Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 2:50 PM  >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >Subject: Re: Firewall for VMS >  > 0 >In article <bg5ns9$cvd$2@grandcanyon.binc.net>,: >hamilton@Encompasserve.org (Bradford J. Hamilton) writes:A >:In article <1OsVa.98567$R92.12518@news2.central.cox.net>, "John % >Hayes" <hayes1966@yahoo.com> writes: @ >:!Is there any software that you can use as a firewall on VMS ? >:!  >:B >:This subject has been discussed a number of times in this forum, >as recently as I >:last month (use Google Advanced Groups Search to find the discussions).  >:@ >:Is this topic a candidate for inclusion in the next version of
 >the VMS FAQ?  > J >  At the arrival rate for this question, yes.  Do you or someone you knowH >  want to summarize the discussion for inclusion in the next edition ofJ >  the OpenVMS FAQ?  (I've certainly got enough other stuff to write.)  IfL >  not, I will queue the article <Gx7Ba.1572$Du1.1292@news.cpqcorp.net>, andI >  use that text as the basis for a firewall section in the next edition.  >  > 1 > ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h>  >-----------------------------L >    For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq3 > --------------------------- pure personal opinion  >---------------------------F >        Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). A >Version: 6.0.502 / Virus Database: 300 - Release Date: 7/18/2003  >  --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.502 / Virus Database: 300 - Release Date: 7/18/2003   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 20:03:52 GMT 9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> $ Subject: Itanium performance news...1 Message-ID: <IwVVa.1140$044.460@news.cpqcorp.net>   * This just came across my screen in e-mail:  J HP and Oracle Set Transaction Processing World Record - Break 800K BarrierB HP Integrity Servers and Oracle Database Establish Record-breakingA Benchmarks on Multiple Operating Systems Across Diverse Workloads     PALO ALTO, CALIF., JULY 30, 2003L ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----  @ HP (NYSE:HPQ) and Oracle Corp. (Nasdaq:ORCL) today announced theJ world-record benchmark result of 824,164 transactions per minute (tpmC) onG the Transaction Processing Council's TPC-C benchmark(1) achieved by the G first ever system, clustered or non-clustered, to eclipse the 800K tpmC  barrier.  H An HP Integrity Superdome server with 64 Intel Itanium 2 processors 6MI running the 64-bit HP-UX 11i v2 operating system, HP StorageWorks Virtual F Array 7110 and Oracle Database technology outperformed all competitiveJ offerings for transaction processing, while also delivering a top 10 TPC-C? single-system price to performance ratio for high-end system of  $8.28/tpmC.(1)  I "HP's strong alliance and strategic development with Oracle enables us to G deliver performance that firmly establishes HP Integrity servers as the C standard for 64-bit architectures," said Rich Marcello, senior vice B president and general manager, HP Business Critical Servers. "WithG world-record performance on an industry-standard platform, HP Integrity L servers offer customers the flexibility and value required for the demanding8 business challenges of managing an adaptive enterprise."  E HP and Oracle also announced the leading TPC-C benchmark result for a J four-processor system. The HP Integrity rx5670 server running HP-UX 11i v2K and Oracle Database technology posted a result of 131,639 tpmC with a price L to performance ratio of $7.25/tpmC,(2) beating all previously published UNIX4 based server results on transaction processing cost.  E "Oracle Database technology and HP Integrity servers provide a strong J platform for running both memory and processing intensive solutions," saidI Andrew Mendelsohn, senior vice president, Database Server Technologies at K Oracle. "Both companies are committed to providing a scalable, reliable and L flexible platform to run demanding mission-critical solutions, while meeting@ customer requirements of performance and better business value."  8 Record Result for Oracle Applications Standard Benchmark  @ HP and Oracle also established a new world record for the OracleH Applications Standard Benchmark (OASB) on four-processor systems. The HPI Integrity rx5670 server running HP-UX 11i v2 and Oracle Database achieved H 6,440 concurrent users, with an average response time of 0.6 seconds.(3)  J The companies also produced the best ever four-processor OASB result for aE Linux-based server, achieving 5,992 concurrent users, with an average L response time of 0.6 seconds,(4) running Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS 2.1 andH Oracle Database technology. Both the four-processor UNIX and Linux-basedG operating system results exceed all other four-processor system results - across all other architectures on the market.   7 HP Integrity Servers Deliver Record-setting Performance   K "Customers are beginning to ask more of the standards-based server products K they are installing in their enterprise data centers," said Jean S. Bozman, J research vice president, IDC. "The migration to industry-standard hardwareB components is driven mainly by cost advantages conferred by volumeH shipments. But the ability to produce high-performance benchmarks and toI support scalability of 64 processors, or more, on a server system that is K based on industry-standard hardware components is noteworthy, and it should L contribute to accelerated adoption of HP's Itanium 2-based Integrity servers( for commercial application deployments."  J In addition to these benchmark records, HP Integrity servers, ranging fromJ one- and two-processor to 64-processor systems, have established dozens ofC record benchmark results on multiple operating systems and workload K categories. Record-breaking results range from the first 64-way SPECjbb2000 I Java Server benchmark of more than 1 million operations per second to the D fastest 64-way microprocessor Linpack performance and record-setting SPECweb99_SSL performance.(5)   F A complete list of record benchmark results produced on HP's Integrity servers is available at 8 www.hp.com/products1/servers/integrity/performance.html.   About Oracle  C Oracle is the world's largest enterprise software company. For more = information about Oracle visit our website at www.oracle.com.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 20:36:17 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> ( Subject: Re: Itanium performance news...G Message-ID: <5%VVa.38895$rsJ.9276@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   F Are we going to see VMS results published when the time comes, or will$ VMS continue to be hidden from view?      D "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> wrote in message+ news:IwVVa.1140$044.460@news.cpqcorp.net... , > This just came across my screen in e-mail: > D > HP and Oracle Set Transaction Processing World Record - Break 800K Barrier D > HP Integrity Servers and Oracle Database Establish Record-breakingC > Benchmarks on Multiple Operating Systems Across Diverse Workloads  > " > PALO ALTO, CALIF., JULY 30, 2003F > -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- > ---- > B > HP (NYSE:HPQ) and Oracle Corp. (Nasdaq:ORCL) today announced theB > world-record benchmark result of 824,164 transactions per minute	 (tpmC) on E > the Transaction Processing Council's TPC-C benchmark(1) achieved by  the D > first ever system, clustered or non-clustered, to eclipse the 800K tpmC
 > barrier. > < > An HP Integrity Superdome server with 64 Intel Itanium 2
 processors 6M C > running the 64-bit HP-UX 11i v2 operating system, HP StorageWorks  Virtual < > Array 7110 and Oracle Database technology outperformed all competitive F > offerings for transaction processing, while also delivering a top 10 TPC-C A > single-system price to performance ratio for high-end system of  > $8.28/tpmC.(1) > E > "HP's strong alliance and strategic development with Oracle enables  us to E > deliver performance that firmly establishes HP Integrity servers as  the E > standard for 64-bit architectures," said Rich Marcello, senior vice D > president and general manager, HP Business Critical Servers. "With? > world-record performance on an industry-standard platform, HP 	 Integrity D > servers offer customers the flexibility and value required for the	 demanding : > business challenges of managing an adaptive enterprise." > E > HP and Oracle also announced the leading TPC-C benchmark result for  a E > four-processor system. The HP Integrity rx5670 server running HP-UX  11i v2E > and Oracle Database technology posted a result of 131,639 tpmC with  a price ? > to performance ratio of $7.25/tpmC,(2) beating all previously  published UNIX6 > based server results on transaction processing cost. > @ > "Oracle Database technology and HP Integrity servers provide a strong; > platform for running both memory and processing intensive  solutions," said; > Andrew Mendelsohn, senior vice president, Database Server  Technologies at @ > Oracle. "Both companies are committed to providing a scalable, reliable andF > flexible platform to run demanding mission-critical solutions, while meeting B > customer requirements of performance and better business value." > : > Record Result for Oracle Applications Standard Benchmark > B > HP and Oracle also established a new world record for the OracleC > Applications Standard Benchmark (OASB) on four-processor systems.  The HPB > Integrity rx5670 server running HP-UX 11i v2 and Oracle Database achieved> > 6,440 concurrent users, with an average response time of 0.6 seconds.(3)  > F > The companies also produced the best ever four-processor OASB result for a ? > Linux-based server, achieving 5,992 concurrent users, with an  average F > response time of 0.6 seconds,(4) running Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS 2.1 and > > Oracle Database technology. Both the four-processor UNIX and Linux-based A > operating system results exceed all other four-processor system  results / > across all other architectures on the market.  > 9 > HP Integrity Servers Deliver Record-setting Performance  > D > "Customers are beginning to ask more of the standards-based server productsE > they are installing in their enterprise data centers," said Jean S.  Bozman, C > research vice president, IDC. "The migration to industry-standard  hardwareD > components is driven mainly by cost advantages conferred by volumeC > shipments. But the ability to produce high-performance benchmarks  and toC > support scalability of 64 processors, or more, on a server system  that is F > based on industry-standard hardware components is noteworthy, and it shouldF > contribute to accelerated adoption of HP's Itanium 2-based Integrity servers * > for commercial application deployments." > ? > In addition to these benchmark records, HP Integrity servers,  ranging fromB > one- and two-processor to 64-processor systems, have established	 dozens of E > record benchmark results on multiple operating systems and workload A > categories. Record-breaking results range from the first 64-way  SPECjbb2000 D > Java Server benchmark of more than 1 million operations per second to theF > fastest 64-way microprocessor Linpack performance and record-setting > SPECweb99_SSL performance.(5)  > > > A complete list of record benchmark results produced on HP's	 Integrity  > servers is available at : > www.hp.com/products1/servers/integrity/performance.html. >  > About Oracle > E > Oracle is the world's largest enterprise software company. For more ? > information about Oracle visit our website at www.oracle.com.  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 18:04:53 -0400 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>( Subject: Re: Itanium performance news...2 Message-ID: <ypednZ5GlbiI3LWiXTWJhw@metrocast.net>  D "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> wrote in message+ news:IwVVa.1140$044.460@news.cpqcorp.net... , > This just came across my screen in e-mail: > L > HP and Oracle Set Transaction Processing World Record - Break 800K BarrierD > HP Integrity Servers and Oracle Database Establish Record-breakingC > Benchmarks on Multiple Operating Systems Across Diverse Workloads  > " > PALO ALTO, CALIF., JULY 30, 2003L > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > ---- > B > HP (NYSE:HPQ) and Oracle Corp. (Nasdaq:ORCL) today announced theL > world-record benchmark result of 824,164 transactions per minute (tpmC) onI > the Transaction Processing Council's TPC-C benchmark(1) achieved by the I > first ever system, clustered or non-clustered, to eclipse the 800K tpmC 
 > barrier.  L Amazing!  A SuperDome with 64 top-of-the-line Madisons has managed to post aK tpmC score almost 8% higher than IBM's POWER4+ system achieves with half as 3 many processors.  An Itanic accomplishment, indeed!    > J > An HP Integrity Superdome server with 64 Intel Itanium 2 processors 6MK > running the 64-bit HP-UX 11i v2 operating system, HP StorageWorks Virtual + > Array 7110 and Oracle Database technology   L Well, I guess that pretty much puts to rest the theory advanced by some thatL the poor scaling up of the earlier SuperDome TPC-C results was mostly due toI the use of Windows and SQL Server - which generated 5.84x the performance I with 16x the processors (compared with the 4-processor zx1 system), while A the new HP-UX system generates 6.26x the performance with 16x the K processors.  Even if we derate the 4-processor HP-UX system a bit (based on K other TPC-C scores around 5% seems reasonable) to compensate for its having L 96 GB of memory vs. the 64 GB for the only slightly-lower-performing WindowsH system, the scaling is still under 6.6:1 for a 16:1 system size increaseB (about 1.6x the performance for each doubling of processor count).    outperformed all competitive L > offerings for transaction processing, while also delivering a top 10 TPC-CA > single-system price to performance ratio for high-end system of  > $8.28/tpmC.(1)  : Vs. $8.31/tpmC for the IBM offering with similar capacity.   > K > "HP's strong alliance and strategic development with Oracle enables us to I > deliver performance that firmly establishes HP Integrity servers as the 8 > standard for 64-bit architectures," said Rich Marcello  A Some people might suggest that claiming to be 'the standard' with D effectively zero market penetration was just a *bit* of a stretch...   ...   : > Record Result for Oracle Applications Standard Benchmark > B > HP and Oracle also established a new world record for the OracleJ > Applications Standard Benchmark (OASB) on four-processor systems. The HPK > Integrity rx5670 server running HP-UX 11i v2 and Oracle Database achieved J > 6,440 concurrent users, with an average response time of 0.6 seconds.(3)  H How nice - but this result was published over a month ago.  I guess theyJ needed something to fill out the press release and didn't just want to useJ the lower Linux score that they released today.  But even the better HP-UXL benchmark result doesn't bode well for SuperDome:  IBM's 16-processor systemL generates over 3.41x the score of HP's 4-processor zx1, and given how poorlyL SuperDome appears to scale (if the TPC-C scaling holds here one might expectL about 2.56x the 4-processor score at 16 processors) it may have considerable> difficulty matching that (let alone in larger configurations).   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 22:52:13 -0400 ) From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.nospam@istop.com> ( Subject: Re: Itanium performance news...( Message-ID: <3F288452.1543611@istop.com>  ) re: "world record" done on some IA64 box.   J Can any objective person comment on whether Alpha EV7 could have beat thatJ record had Digital still been a competitor of HP with a vested interest in; marketing and making Alpha compete head on against intel ?%   M I don't trust HP to push EV7 to its limit since they woudln't want it to beat 
 Intel's chip.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 04:54:15 GMT % From: "Mike Naime" <mnaime@kc.rr.com> ( Subject: Re: Itanium performance news...; Message-ID: <Xh1Wa.46722$7O4.1106053@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>   4 JF Mezei <jfmezei.nospam@istop.com> wrote in message" news:3F288452.1543611@istop.com...+ > re: "world record" done on some IA64 box.  > L > Can any objective person comment on whether Alpha EV7 could have beat thatL > record had Digital still been a competitor of HP with a vested interest in= > marketing and making Alpha compete head on against intel ?%  > J > I don't trust HP to push EV7 to its limit since they woudln't want it to beat > Intel's chip.   B Well I'm not sure if this is comparing apples to apples....  But a( comparison of newer AIX and VMS systems.  F Our peformance lab benchmarks IBM AIX and VMS systems with a simulatedI workload of our Application sending requests to the Oracle database.  TheeJ test system is supposed to run for one hour under this simulated workload.C This last spring, they did some testing of the IBM Reggata, and the  Compaq/HP Marvel.S  J The 16 CPU IBM Reggata system finished about 3/4 of the entire workload in	 one hour.eJ The Marvel (GS1280) with less CPU's (I do not remember the number) was notF rated at this time because it FINISHED the entire workload in about 45L minutes!  (Again I do not remember the exact timings, it may have been less)K It was determined that we would need another Marvel to feed the test MarvelsJ enough simulated workload in order to have enough work to keep running the$ test for the required one hour time.  1 Something else we harass our IBM guys about!  :-)t  
 Mike Naime   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 19:25:40 GMTM# From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)e Subject: Re: Model Update Plan0 Message-ID: <UYUVa.1134$DW3.30@news.cpqcorp.net>  U In article <bg48oj$eh$1@grandcanyon.binc.net>, THIS$THAT <nobody@spamcop.net> writes:m  @ :If there's a wrong way to carry out an update, I'm sure I would= :find it.  If something can go wrong it will.  Anyone care tow6 :share their update plan as a possible model solution?  ?   READ THE MANUALS.  Please.  Please READ THE MANUALS.  PLEASE!u  6       P L E A S E    R E A D    T H E    M A N U A L S  @   We provide extensive documentation on performing upgrades, and6   particularly on the steps required for backing out.   =   I typically recommend a system disk BACKUP/IMAGE before anda=   after the upgrade, to allow you to fall back appropriately.P  i=   There is also a list of recommended ECOs available for most>=   any OpenVMS release, please see the OpenVMS FAQ or similar  >   resources for pointers to ECO search engines and other such.  @   These discussions arise periodically, as well.  Please see any>   of the existing "should I upgrade or should I wait" threads,A   going back a decade and more.   These apply equally to software @   and hardware upgrades.  You can search for past discussions of   this topic, in other words.   A   I would strongly encourage you to include something approachingh@   a real name and real OpenVMS information in your posting -- an@   anonymous username and vague concerns with generic details are*   exceedingly tough for anyone to address.    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.coml   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 04:34:50 GMTn% From: "Mike Naime" <mnaime@kc.rr.com>h Subject: Re: Model Update Plan; Message-ID: <K%0Wa.46551$7O4.1104309@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>-  / THIS$THAT <nobody@spamcop.net> wrote in messageT) news:bg8h9s$4k5$1@grandcanyon.binc.net...   > This morning Mike Naime wrote: > >o
 > > [... ]B > >After this it lists the stuff that it removed from the previous version....- >-F > Mike thanks for that; almost as good as loooking over your shoulder. >nC > Hope noone minds if I encourage others to post (potentially long))E > transcripts of complete upgrade sessions.  Reading over them is the ; > nearest thing to a rehearsal, and practice makes perfect.   J If you want logs of Thursdays and Fridays upgrades.  Email my home addressL  mnaime at kc dot rr dot com )with a good E-mail address to send to.  I will@ not post the whole log that includes several re-boots and system initializations.  
 Mike Naime   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 22:20:40 -0400t) From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.nospam@istop.com>e4 Subject: Re: Moving cluster whilst maintaing quorum.) Message-ID: <3F287CEF.D9D2859C@istop.com>a   Nic Clews wrote:F > Plugging in a terminator as fast as possible isn't the answer, quickD > blow fuses go in the order of microseconds. Perhaps I'm being overG > cautious, but I've blown enough fuses that I carry a spare set around4; > with me. DSSI busses are less forgiving than SCSI busses.t  J Back when I had a 4000 seroes VAX installed with DSSI drives in a separateK cabinet, the later survived for over 20 hours without a terminator. I don'tuN remember the details, but I think I just saw some errors on the drives withoutE total failure, called DEC service and the guy quickly realised he hadn$ forgotten to install the terminator.  C So it would *seem* to me that you should be able to survice lack of  terminators for a few seconds.  D However, in that context, the DSSI box was attached only to one vax.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 19:32:22 -0500p1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>i5 Subject: Re: Need recommendations for a new tape silot' Message-ID: <3F286396.5D4F2D40@fsi.net>a   "John N." wrote: > I > We are replacing our old STK 9714 DLT  SCSI tape library.  We have been I > working with a new STK L700 with SDLT 160/320 tape drives connected ourcM > Fibre Channel. This is not working out well and we are finding that Supportc/ > is limited, especially as it pertains to VMS.o > M > We are now beginning to evaluate other Fibre Channle Tape Libraries for use I > with our VS systems.  Does anyone have nay words of advice, or words of L > caution?  Is the HP ESL 9595 a good system?  At least HP couldn't say they > don't support it.s > L > We want a silo that will hold around 600 cartridges.  Future expandabilityI > would be nice.  It must be supported under VMS, and it should be "Fibre I > Channel" friendly.  We are running VMS V7.3-1.  We are using MTI"s Tape H > Control and Oasis, but we will probably be replacing Oasis for another > Robotic utility.  G Dunno 'bout using TapeControl without Oasis, but have you looked at theD= ESL9000 series from hp? Kinda pricey, but at least supported.e  F I'd be curious to know the problems you've been having with your L700.G If they center more around robot control than tape drive interface, youw3 should look into STK's ACSLS and hp's DCSC and SLS.t  G Of course, if you're accustomed to the richness of TapeControl, you maysH find SLS a bitter disappointment (my opinion, YMMV). SLS+DCSC+ACSLS doesC work, though it helps to have had some UN*X experience to deal witheH Solaris and ACSLS. Some of my VMS-side DCL proc.'s use RSHELL and RCP toD exchange data with ACSLS and perform ACSLS commands under programmed control (input redirection).  G If you're experiencing parity errors while writing tapes, look into theyH recent STK ECO/FCO regarding the SCSI cables that connect the tape driveF "bulkhead" connectors to the SCSI modules in the "CrossRoads" switches> (hp NSRs or STK SN3400s). So far, ours are looking quite good.   -- - David J. Dachtera- dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 04:16:15 GMT3% From: "Mike Naime" <mnaime@kc.rr.com>" Subject: Re: OpenVms Backup>; Message-ID: <jK0Wa.46385$7O4.1101699@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>n  + <david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk> wrote in messagek# news:bg8v2h$bhh$1@news.mdx.ac.uk...>@ > In article <iaqfivk352jcuvgq4l6a83qosj1bac57sg@4ax.com>, jlsue" <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net> writes:L > >On Tue, 29 Jul 2003 17:42:45 +0000 (UTC), david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: > >fK > >>In article <I5nVa.43473$7O4.945732@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>, "Mike Naime"n <mnaime@kc.rr.com> writes: > >>>k > >>> J > >>>Have you looked at the EVA?  It has a snapshot capability that we are usingo  > >>>for our enterprise backups. > >>>. > >>) > >>Hardware solutions ==> lots of money.i > >>F > >>The software snapshot solution  would have been usable on existing systems. > >> > >iL > >But we don't know how much the software solution would have cost, so it's% > >not clear which is more expensive.p > >e >eE > However unless it was a Royalty product (ie included someone else's  technology)yI > that wouldn't have mattered to us since we would have got it for "free"i under  > DECCAMPUS. >. > L > >On the EVA5000,  Business Copy for 2TB lists around $21K... 4TB at aroundH > >$26K.  And the BC operating system-level media (unlimited clients) to batcht( > >the snapshots only costs around $500. > >UI > >Quite a bit less than what the snapshot firmware and EVM would cost on- the  > >HSG-based storage solution. > >sH > >I can't speak to whether the $26,500 (list price) is too much for the valueu > >you'd get, though.n > >n >eL > Now factor in buying the EVA to replace all our HSZ etc connected storage.L > Buying fibre channel cards - are they even supported on 2100s , 1000As and	 > 4100s ?A > J > When your buying a brand new system then EVA makes sense but not for all these J > old systems. Especially not when your management doesn't see much future forn > those VMS systems. >uL > Around 9 months ago I bought a couple of central mailhubs running PMDF and VMS.L > Unless something changes those are probably the last VMS systems I will be > allowed to purchase. >n > David Webb > VMS and Unix team leader > CCSS > Middlesex University   Try Ebay!  :-)  K Seriously...  The fibre attached vs. SCSI attached is night and day.  I was=H used to seeing a VAX 3100 model 40 pegged at 30 on the IO portion of MONE SYS.  Now I see as high as 4800 on Fibre attached Alphaserver systemsnJ writting to HSG80's.  I'm wondering what I can get when our GS1280 arrives and I hook that up to the EVA.  
 Mike Naime   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Jul 2003 15:52:24 -0700. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)3 Subject: Re: OT: Rolling Stones permanently stainede= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0307301452.4cf6753c@posting.google.com>p  [ JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message news:<3F25CF33.8CB1B0E9@istop.com>...aM > This week, the Rolling Stones are holding a benefit concert to help rebuilde- > the devastated Toronto economy due to Sars.f  N > They are also plastering the media with ads, and the one song that they keepB > on using is the Microsoft "Start me up". (Remember Windows 95 ?)    ? Are these TV ads? I recommend that you KILL YOUR TELEVISION. Oru$ failing that, use the mute function.   Do you remember Windows 3.x?    M > It is interesting how much damage the Rolling Stones did to themselves when O > they allowed Gates to use that song since 8 years later. Hearing that song is-O > still a major irritant to me. I would certaintly avoid their concerts if theyfS > were to play that song. They should have burried it after the Microsoft campaign.e    C How did they damage themselves? I'm sure they're doing pretty well.n= They may have damaged your opinion of them, and a few others'9. opinions, but I think they can deal with that.  < Why can't you just be grateful that they're doing a benefit?     Alan E. Feldmanu KILL YOUR TELEVISION   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Jul 2003 15:53:53 -0700. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)3 Subject: Re: OT: Rolling Stones permanently stained-= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0307301453.2215df02@posting.google.com>7  X VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote in message news:<00A23928.B80C87D0@SendSpamHere.ORG>...Z > In article <1030728235613.1344A-100000@Ives.egh.com>, John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> writes:' > >On Mon, 28 Jul 2003, JF Mezei wrote:e > >-P > >> This week, the Rolling Stones are holding a benefit concert to help rebuild0 > >> the devastated Toronto economy due to Sars. > >> hQ > >> They are also plastering the media with ads, and the one song that they keep E > >> on using is the Microsoft "Start me up". (Remember Windows 95 ?)p > >>  P > >> It is interesting how much damage the Rolling Stones did to themselves whenR > >> they allowed Gates to use that song since 8 years later. Hearing that song isR > >> still a major irritant to me. I would certaintly avoid their concerts if theyV > >> were to play that song. They should have burried it after the Microsoft campaign. > >e > >Hey, JF - > > K > >Listen to the lyrics - especially the chorus "You make a grown man cry!"i > >  > >:-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) >  > It's also a facetious lie: >  > "if you start me >  if you start me up  >  I'll never stop." > O > ...or perhaps just wishingful thinking on the part of the _C_ult of _R_edmondm > _A_bject _P_rogramming!m     Yes, just full of lies!!!   + From the song:  "You make a dead man come."o   Even VMS can't do that!!! :-)d   Alan Feldman   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 22:54:37 -0400r) From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.nospam@istop.com>c3 Subject: Re: OT: Rolling Stones permanently stained ) Message-ID: <3F2884E1.77508E18@istop.com>    "Alan E. Feldman" wrote:> = >Why can't you just be grateful that they're doing a benefit?s  L I was merely commenting that 7 years later, the association of Microsoft andJ that song is still strong and thus any airing of that song still generates negative attitudes.t  M I guess that the song was "typecast" as an icon of the evil microsoft empire.    ------------------------------    Date: 30 Jul 2003 21:18:36 -0700. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)3 Subject: Re: OT: Rolling Stones permanently stained = Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0307302018.7f2f860b@posting.google.com>s  s spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) wrote in message news:<b096a4ee.0307301453.2215df02@posting.google.com>...-Z > VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote in message news:<00A23928.B80C87D0@SendSpamHere.ORG>...\ > > In article <1030728235613.1344A-100000@Ives.egh.com>, John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> writes:) > > >On Mon, 28 Jul 2003, JF Mezei wrote:  > > >tR > > >> This week, the Rolling Stones are holding a benefit concert to help rebuild2 > > >> the devastated Toronto economy due to Sars. > > >> oS > > >> They are also plastering the media with ads, and the one song that they keep2G > > >> on using is the Microsoft "Start me up". (Remember Windows 95 ?)  > > >>  R > > >> It is interesting how much damage the Rolling Stones did to themselves whenT > > >> they allowed Gates to use that song since 8 years later. Hearing that song isT > > >> still a major irritant to me. I would certaintly avoid their concerts if theyX > > >> were to play that song. They should have burried it after the Microsoft campaign. > > >a > > >Hey, JF - > > >nM > > >Listen to the lyrics - especially the chorus "You make a grown man cry!",  D Uh, not quite. The singer who says *he*'ll never stop is saying thatB whomever he is singing to makes "a grown man cry"!!! see below for more   > > >h > > >:-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) > >  > > It's also a facetious lie: > >  > > "if you start me > >  if you start me upx > >  I'll never stop." > > Q > > ...or perhaps just wishingful thinking on the part of the _C_ult of _R_edmond- > > _A_bject _P_rogramming!  >  >  > Yes, just full of lies!!!  > - > From the song:  "You make a dead man come."- >  > Even VMS can't do that!!! :-)n >  > Alan Feldman  D Oops! I got the first/second/third person mixed up. Here, the singerE says "If you start me up..." Apparently, the "me" is Jagger, or Win95:F in the commercial. "You make a dead man come." The "You" then, must be< a third party to whom he is singing!!! Not himself or Win95.  B It's just more lies from BG Inc!!! Lies, I tell you. DEC/Compaq/HP( never said anything like this to anyone!  = And how dare BG Inc bring such lyrics onto family television.0   Alan E. Feldman@ KILL YOUR TELEVISION   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 19:20:45 -0500n1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>l" Subject: Re: Read MAG tape to disk' Message-ID: <3F2860DD.8E778C2D@fsi.net>h   James Ross wrote:6 > B > I have a PL/I application that write data to a  mag tape that is& > mounted using the following command:* > mount/for/den=6250/block=2050 TAPE MUB0: > @ > When I extract the data out of the mag tape on disk using this
 > command: > copy MUB0: []file.dat; > G > I get two extra bytes in the beginning of the file when I examine theQ > hex dump. < > The Hex dump command I perform is: dump/hex/byte file.dat; > /out=file.dmp; >   > The two extra bytes are: 02 08 > 4 > Any Idea as to why this happens and how to fix it?  F This happens when the output is a sequential file with variable recordH length and RMS is involved in the process of writing the output records.  F To "fix it", make sure the PL/I program opens the magtape channel as a fixed record length file.f   --   David J. Dachtera- dba DJE SystemsF http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 18:06:23 -0500n1 From: Bob Blunt <robert.blunt@hp.donotspamme.com> " Subject: Re: RF31 hardware problem, Message-ID: <3f285518$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>   Rufus VII wrote: > Hello out there, > C > I've got a problem with two RF31-Disks in a VAX-4000/200 machine;i3 > both show "red light" when I turn the machine on.- > C > I can reach both controllers via SET HOST/DUP/DSSI/BUS:x y <task>:0 > DRVTST give me a A508 - Unit diagnostic failed3 > PARAMS STATUS shows also a lot of A508(X) errors.  > 6 > Q: What does this A508 means? Anything "repairable"? > < > Any advice or reference to MSCP error codes would be nice. >  > Rufusq  G When you power-up the system, do you get any mechanical sounding noise eG from the disks in question?  Do they sound like they're trying to spin SG and seek?  Have the HDA or the logic board been swapped on either disk?p  1 While using PARAMS, issue the following commands:O   STAT CONFIGJ   STAT LOG   bob-   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 17:49:45 -0400-< From: "Carlc Internet Services" <cc@nospamming-to-carlc.com>; Subject: Re: SMTP greylisting (was Re: Teergrube for VMS ?) 0 Message-ID: <Z3XVa.43$Hx3.48739@news.uswest.net>  7 "Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in messages! news:bg8c2b$733$1@lore.csc.com...  > Dean Woodward wrote: > >eH > > My ISP recently installed a greylist setup, and spam on that account$ > > dropped roughly 95% immediately. > >t@ > > See http://projects.puremagic.com/greylisting/ for more info >t > Interesting. >mD > I can't see it working on my system because the delivery system IPJ > address is always one of the mail servers at my ISP. It would have to be. > implemented by my ISP on their mail servers. >aC > My home system and email could only be switched on at several dayfJ > intervals. That 15 minute urgent message could wait around on a delivery > queue for 7 days...a >RG > I've asked Demon before about this type of thing, they don't even usei > RBL's :-(.     Time to get a new ISP...  E As an ISP provider, I've setup email servers with RBL and reverse DNSr	 checking.bJ I wish the OpenVMS systems could do this as well, instead, I just use themL for relaying of known IP addresses, denying all other relays. I guess as oneE of the very few OpenVMS ISPs, we have to use a good combo of productsrD to get everything to play 24x7 style of what were use to on OpenVMS.  J Now, if someone could move Qmail to OpenVMS (if I only had the C knowledge and time!).u   Carl ==================== http://www.carlc.com/o  =       "Price, Performance, Quality. Choose any two you like."y   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 22:16:37 GMTnL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr"); Subject: Re: SMTP greylisting (was Re: Teergrube for VMS ?)t6 Message-ID: <00A23A36.0862A4FA@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  o In article <Z3XVa.43$Hx3.48739@news.uswest.net>, "Carlc Internet Services" <cc@nospamming-to-carlc.com> writes:u8 >"Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message" >news:bg8c2b$733$1@lore.csc.com... >> Dean Woodward wrote:d >> >I >> > My ISP recently installed a greylist setup, and spam on that accounts% >> > dropped roughly 95% immediately.  >> >A >> > See http://projects.puremagic.com/greylisting/ for more infos >> >> Interesting.p >>E >> I can't see it working on my system because the delivery system IPoK >> address is always one of the mail servers at my ISP. It would have to bet/ >> implemented by my ISP on their mail servers.c >>D >> My home system and email could only be switched on at several dayK >> intervals. That 15 minute urgent message could wait around on a deliverys >> queue for 7 days... >>H >> I've asked Demon before about this type of thing, they don't even use >> RBL's :-( >s >l >Time to get a new ISP...a > F >As an ISP provider, I've setup email servers with RBL and reverse DNS
 >checking.K >I wish the OpenVMS systems could do this as well, instead, I just use themeM >for relaying of known IP addresses, denying all other relays. I guess as onenF >of the very few OpenVMS ISPs, we have to use a good combo of productsE >to get everything to play 24x7 style of what were use to on OpenVMS.   J If you ran PMDF on your VMS servers, you could do the RBL and reverse DNS  stuff.  J (I can't on my PMDF-running systems because I'm inside SLAC's firewall andI all mail is handed to me by SLAC's gateway system, but the capability is a there.)n   -- Alans   -- nO ===============================================================================d0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056rM  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   940252O ===============================================================================    ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 23:26:13 +0000 (UTC)S From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk; Subject: Re: SMTP greylisting (was Re: Teergrube for VMS ?) ) Message-ID: <bg9k6k$i93$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>t  o In article <Z3XVa.43$Hx3.48739@news.uswest.net>, "Carlc Internet Services" <cc@nospamming-to-carlc.com> writes:.8 >"Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message" >news:bg8c2b$733$1@lore.csc.com... >> Dean Woodward wrote:e >> >I >> > My ISP recently installed a greylist setup, and spam on that accountI% >> > dropped roughly 95% immediately.  >> >A >> > See http://projects.puremagic.com/greylisting/ for more infoi >> >> Interesting.  >>E >> I can't see it working on my system because the delivery system IP?K >> address is always one of the mail servers at my ISP. It would have to be / >> implemented by my ISP on their mail servers.h >>D >> My home system and email could only be switched on at several dayK >> intervals. That 15 minute urgent message could wait around on a deliveryd >> queue for 7 days... >>H >> I've asked Demon before about this type of thing, they don't even use >> RBL's :-( >  >O >Time to get a new ISP...3 > F >As an ISP provider, I've setup email servers with RBL and reverse DNS
 >checking.K >I wish the OpenVMS systems could do this as well, instead, I just use them M >for relaying of known IP addresses, denying all other relays. I guess as one F >of the very few OpenVMS ISPs, we have to use a good combo of productsE >to get everything to play 24x7 style of what were use to on OpenVMS.K >pK >Now, if someone could move Qmail to OpenVMS (if I only had the C knowledge >and time!). > J PMDF from process supports these facilities. It's a commercial rather than freeware package.a  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University         >Carla >====================  >http://www.carlc.com/ >P> >      "Price, Performance, Quality. Choose any two you like." >m >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 22:49:53 -0400i) From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.nospam@istop.com>r; Subject: Re: SMTP greylisting (was Re: Teergrube for VMS ?) ) Message-ID: <3F2883C6.999482C2@istop.com>R   Carlc Internet Services wrote:L > I wish the OpenVMS systems could do this as well, instead, I just use them@ > for relaying of known IP addresses, denying all other relays.   ! TCPIP Services 5.3 supports RBLs.tC And I would suspect that the more complete Multinet/PMDF would too.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:55:18 -0400i* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>< Subject: Re: Sun tries to woo AlphaServer users away from HP2 Message-ID: <a12dnaA0D887ibWiU-KYvg@metrocast.net>  5 "David Froble" <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in messager& news:3F27C67D.5020003@tsoft-inc.com...   ...   K > I have yet to see anything showing how a migration, even if forced in theOJ > future, would be better now when it's not really clear that such is even needed.r  L That's fine for people who can afford to wait and see.  It's not so fine forD people who, for whatever reason (e.g., need to upgrade very soon forJ performance reasons and desire to do so only once rather than face anotherG platform change later), must commit to decisions right now that they'lltH *really* want to be happy living with for, say, the next decade (as bothL Digital and Compaq assured them they would be if they chose Alpha):  *those*J people have to decide who they want to spend that decade dealing with, and they have to decide now.   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 21:24:45 GMTd  From: CJT <cheljuba@prodigy.net>< Subject: Re: Sun tries to woo AlphaServer users away from HP( Message-ID: <3F2837D4.90700@prodigy.net>   David Froble wrote:o   > JF Mezei wrote:o >  >> Mike Naime wrote: >>B >>> Why migrate?   I have an old E-mail from one of our engineers  >>> boasting thatrJ >>> he was the first from our company to boot VMS on an IA64 on May 22 in 	 >>> Nashuu >>> NH.o >>>X >>& >> 1- You want a vendor you can trust. >>F >> 2- You don't want to have to constantly guess what a vendor REALLY 
 >> intends toh( >> do with their product which you need. >>I >> 3-The future of IA64 is still quite cloudy. Even the apologists agree   >> thata@ >> IA64 is still something that would materialise in the future.J >> 4-The futire of VMS is even cloudier with HP not mentioning VMS unless  >> the6 >> loyalists generate sufficient number of complaints. >> > F > None of the above are valid answers to the question, to which there  > isn't a valid answer.m > G > 1 - When you're selecting a vendor, trust is important.  When you're  & > already there, you're already there. > I > 2 - You'll find out when they do it.  Plenty of time then to determine e > your options.d > H > 3 - The system I use most is a VAXstation 4000 model 90A.  EV7 is now I > shipping and could satisfy the requirements of most customers for much y > more than 10 years.m > K > 4 - Would JF tell me exactly how HP actions will affect the VMS CD media   > now in customer's hands? > H > If you're JF, the first time the boat rocks a bit, you're launching a E > lifeboat and sitting in the middle of the ocean with just a paddle.  > K > Me, I think I'll wait until it's rather apparent that the ship is indeed s
 > going down.f  F I think it's at least appropriate to find out where the lifeboats are,% and whether there are enough of them.r   > H > I have yet to see anything showing how a migration, even if forced in J > the future, would be better now when it's not really clear that such is  > even needed. >  > Dave >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 22:38:49 -0400.) From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.nospam@istop.com>-< Subject: Re: Sun tries to woo AlphaServer users away from HP) Message-ID: <3F28812F.9C15293F@istop.com>:   David Froble wrote:eP > If you're JF, the first time the boat rocks a bit, you're launching a lifeboat< > and sitting in the middle of the ocean with just a paddle.  K The boat hgas been rocking and sinking ever so slowly for over 10 years. At:N one point, one must realise that the rough time to transit in a lifeboat untilN recahing another luxury liner will yield better long term results than riskingN continued life on the  slowly sinking ship, even if that ship still has a ffew years to go.  K Now, if, before announcing officially that the ship was sinking, Compaq had-G waited for the IA64 rescue ship to be at least VISIBLE, then perhaps itd  wouldn't have been so worrysome.  I And if HP had killed once and for all rumours of the VMS ship sinking andoI taken steps to not only refloat the boat, but give it more speed and moresN flashing lights, then customers wouldn't be wondering about the future of VMS.  L Any product whose vendor says "we'll keep it available for at least 5 years"L has an implied termination date somewhere in the future. You don't have such$ statements about windows, HP-UX etc.  I If VMS were marketed and truly integrated as part of the core , strategicoM product offerings, customers and competitors woudln't be thinking that HP had I long term plans to get rid of VMS, and HP wouldn't feel compelled to maket. promises not to kill VMS for at least X years.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 22:47:13 -0400m) From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.nospam@istop.com>r< Subject: Re: Sun tries to woo AlphaServer users away from HP) Message-ID: <3F288326.8ECDB150@istop.com>s   Bill Todd wrote:N > That's fine for people who can afford to wait and see.  It's not so fine forF > people who, for whatever reason (e.g., need to upgrade very soon for > performance reasonss  N Actually, it is FAR WORSE for people who have outgrown other platforms and areH looking for a scalable platform to replace their old one. Because of theN uncertainty about VMS, it makes it much much harder to convince anyone to move TO  VMS.  ) Can you spell MISSED OPPORTUNITIES ??????t   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Jul 2003 22:24:44 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)m< Subject: Re: Sun tries to woo AlphaServer users away from HP3 Message-ID: <XEahFenG1sOo@eisner.encompasserve.org>   U In article <3F28812F.9C15293F@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.nospam@istop.com> writes:i > David Froble wrote:rQ >> If you're JF, the first time the boat rocks a bit, you're launching a lifeboat = >> and sitting in the middle of the ocean with just a paddle.o > M > Now, if, before announcing officially that the ship was sinking, Compaq had I > waited for the IA64 rescue ship to be at least VISIBLE, then perhaps ith" > wouldn't have been so worrysome. > K > And if HP had killed once and for all rumours of the VMS ship sinking and)K > taken steps to not only refloat the boat, but give it more speed and more1P > flashing lights, then customers wouldn't be wondering about the future of VMS. >   @ 	So worrisome, that HP is making money hand over fist quarter to? 	quarter.  Number #1 in several categories (servers, printers).e   	And yet . . .  doom and gloom.   C 	Here's doom and gloom. . . Sun hasn't made money in quite a while.e= 	Their server sales are down 19%.  Is that a surprise, shock?I  
 	I think not:   Z http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=rCmE28372xE2%40eisner.encompasserve.org&output=gplain  + From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)h" Subject: Re: The Gauntlet is Cast! Date: 5 Sep 2002 22:53:28 -0600o    ;  They have to put up artificial barriers.  The LX50 is a 1U =  server.  If for example they supported a 4-way or 8-way Dell-:  box, some wise-acre would come along and run Oracle on it<  and show it outperforms Oracle on UltraSparc.  Oh... that's$  right, Sun doesn't do tpmC anymore.  @  But for the same reason, Linux runs on LX50.  Linux and Solaris9  on Intel is for edge computing, remember Zander's words?a  1 http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,30668,00.aspt  O We're hot about Linux, we think it's a great low-end play in the edge computingnM market, and the product we are bringing out this summer will catapult us intoa
 the lead.       Catapult?  Okay.-  ;  Don't expect Scotty to budge.  Anymore than you would have A  expected Digital's senior management to make a radical change inp?  direction in 1987 or 1988 when revenues and profits were stillr3  growing.  Shoot, guess Sun's revs aren't growing.    A  Anyhow, point in this ... Sun can't embrace Intel, can't embracec/  Linux.  The good ship Sun is left to flounder:t    M "As the weak IT spending picture weighs on the sector, Sun is also challengedsN by several company-specific issues," wrote J.P. Morgan analyst Bill Shope. "WeE believe that Sun continues to grapple with a core market slowdown andE increasing competition."  H In the low-end, Sun is facing a threat from the Microsoft-Linux industryN standard server vendors, such as Dell, he told clients. The threat is startingN to creep up into the midrange Unix server market, where pricing competition isO fierce. In the high end, Sun faces off with IBM and Hewlett-Packard (HPQ: news,e chart, profile).  N At least eight Wall Street brokerages cut their earnings and revenue estimatesJ for the computer hardware and services company, not only for Sun's current0 fiscal first quarter but also for 2003 and 2004.    C  You know.. instead of Sun being the Novell of the 2000's.... thinkr>  of Sun as the Apple of the 2000's.  Apple is still alive, but@  largely irrelevant.  One-trick pony Sun is headed there as they<  refuse to adopt the industry standard.  Isn't Apple so cute8  running on those PowerPC chips?   Ooohhhhh ... Aaahhhh.  @  That San Jose Mercury article could have been an Apple focused B  article 12 years ago urging Steve Jobs to get over to Intel from 
  Motorola.  N > Any product whose vendor says "we'll keep it available for at least 5 years"N > has an implied termination date somewhere in the future. You don't have such& > statements about windows, HP-UX etc. > K > If VMS were marketed and truly integrated as part of the core , strategicHO > product offerings, customers and competitors woudln't be thinking that HP hadeK > long term plans to get rid of VMS, and HP wouldn't feel compelled to makee0 > promises not to kill VMS for at least X years.    < 	Face it - Sun is irrelevant.  HP isn't.  It then comes down! 	to a two pony race.  HP and IBM.    				Rob    B Men with walkie-talkie                  I'm home again to you babeC Men with flashlights waving             You know it makes me wonderoG Up upon the tower                       Sittin' in the quiet slipstream > The clock reads daylight savin'         Rollin' in the thunder  -                                 -- Neil Youngl   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 05:42:03 GMTl% From: "Mike Naime" <mnaime@kc.rr.com>e< Subject: Re: Sun tries to woo AlphaServer users away from HP; Message-ID: <L_1Wa.47140$7O4.1108232@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>   4 JF Mezei <jfmezei.nospam@istop.com> wrote in message# news:3F28812F.9C15293F@istop.com...o > David Froble wrote:aI > > If you're JF, the first time the boat rocks a bit, you're launching ar lifeboat> > > and sitting in the middle of the ocean with just a paddle. >hJ > The boat hgas been rocking and sinking ever so slowly for over 10 years. AtJ > one point, one must realise that the rough time to transit in a lifeboat untileH > recahing another luxury liner will yield better long term results than risking-K > continued life on the  slowly sinking ship, even if that ship still has a/ ffew > years to go. >-I > Now, if, before announcing officially that the ship was sinking, Compaq  had(I > waited for the IA64 rescue ship to be at least VISIBLE, then perhaps it-" > wouldn't have been so worrysome. >3K > And if HP had killed once and for all rumours of the VMS ship sinking anddK > taken steps to not only refloat the boat, but give it more speed and moreSK > flashing lights, then customers wouldn't be wondering about the future ofi VMS. > G > Any product whose vendor says "we'll keep it available for at least 5s years"I > has an implied termination date somewhere in the future. You don't have  such& > statements about windows, HP-UX etc. >eK > If VMS were marketed and truly integrated as part of the core , strategic K > product offerings, customers and competitors woudln't be thinking that HPr hadhK > long term plans to get rid of VMS, and HP wouldn't feel compelled to maked0 > promises not to kill VMS for at least X years.  L One thing that a lot of people seem to ignore, or not even think about.  TheL US government has a TON of VMS and SUN equipment.  I remember stories on theK Government/DOD side that when COMPAQ bought Digital, the US Government told2L them they WOULD support VMS for at least the next 20 years.  I'm not sure asF to the validity of these rumours, but if true, I'm sure that this alsoL applies to HP after the merger.  Either way, there are a <CLASSIFIED> numberI of systems that the US Government and Military branches operate on.  When 4 the government migrates, THEN I will start to worry.    K How do you kill a rumour?  I was told by several friends back in 90' that InK should not be getting into VMS because it was dead/dying.  Why?  Because itsE was older, and would be replaced by something newer.  Not that it was L broken, or needed fixing, but because it wasn't the latest bleeding edge OS.K You will never be able to kill this type of rumour.  Especially when it's a K marketing strategy perpetuated by the competition.  Who do you believe? andtL what could HP really say at this point to really dispell in everyone's mindsG this particular rumour?  I have seen a roadmap of Alphaserver CPU's out.K until about 2009.  That is good enough for me.  Oh, And guess what, AIX and I UNIX are no longer the new OS's either.  Are they dying too?  Does "Loganm Run" Apply to OS's?  :-)    L Is newer = better???  Well, Our W2K Intell servers get re-booted on a weeklyH basis before they crap out.  I had one DS20 cluster that was up for 330+K days before we re-booted it for an OS upgrade.  That particular client willhE probably run on that hardware until it die's.  I may have to add more L storage as the database grows, but they are not growing in Average CPU usageK to where I think I would have to upgrade the hardware that they are running  on.a    Enough for now...  Time for bed.  
 Mike Naime   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 18:18:05 GMT A From: "Colin Butcher" <colin_DOT.butcher_AT@xdelta_DOT.co_DOT.uk>03 Subject: Re: Third party volume shadowing products? = Message-ID: <xZTVa.4329$wM4.39796838@news-text.cableinet.net>n  J For real high availability I usually get the application to write all dataL twice (simply insert your own set of IO routines that the programmers use) -K the locations being pointed to by logical names where one was usually local I disc and the other was a DECdfs remote 'disc'. There's a little fun to be J had with ensuring consistency of data in the data files, but it works veryK well indeed. One such system (36+ machines in a control centre environment) G has now been up for just over 14 years with about 20 minutes unintendedeJ downtime (someone's finger slipped about 10 years ago) - and that includesH live upgrades from uVAX II to VAX 4000 to Alpha DS10/20, plus OS version& changes, application changes etc. etc.  L DECdfs allows shared read and single write, so it's quite coarse granularityJ compared with volume shadowing - however it's far more tolerant of latencyK and gives an easy way to make discs available across a network of machines.oJ Since it uses DECnet underneath it is also very good for high availabilityK as you can adjust all the DECnet timers for path failover and so on withoutt@ disrupting the DECdfs layer - so you don't get 'disc IO' errors.  J It's not 'volume shadowing' per se, but DECdfs will allow you to do thingsH slightly differently and may well achieve a 'better result' depending onI what you're trying to achieve. Worth thinking about. I'm a big fan of it.r  A -----------------------------------------------------------------e Hope this helps, Colin.4) colin DOT butcher AT xdelta DOT co DOT uk0L Systems Archaeologist - Investigation & troubleshooting of older systems and	 networks.<   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 04:01:18 GMT.% From: "Mike Naime" <mnaime@kc.rr.com>:3 Subject: Re: Third party volume shadowing products? ; Message-ID: <iw0Wa.46284$7O4.1099298@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>c  J Colin Butcher <colin_DOT.butcher_AT@xdelta_DOT.co_DOT.uk> wrote in message7 news:xZTVa.4329$wM4.39796838@news-text.cableinet.net...aL > For real high availability I usually get the application to write all dataG > twice (simply insert your own set of IO routines that the programmers  use) -G > the locations being pointed to by logical names where one was usually  localtK > disc and the other was a DECdfs remote 'disc'. There's a little fun to bepL > had with ensuring consistency of data in the data files, but it works very@ > well indeed. One such system (36+ machines in a control centre environment)I > has now been up for just over 14 years with about 20 minutes unintendedCL > downtime (someone's finger slipped about 10 years ago) - and that includesJ > live upgrades from uVAX II to VAX 4000 to Alpha DS10/20, plus OS version( > changes, application changes etc. etc. >hB > DECdfs allows shared read and single write, so it's quite coarse granularitysL > compared with volume shadowing - however it's far more tolerant of latencyC > and gives an easy way to make discs available across a network of 	 machines.EL > Since it uses DECnet underneath it is also very good for high availabilityE > as you can adjust all the DECnet timers for path failover and so onn withoutiB > disrupting the DECdfs layer - so you don't get 'disc IO' errors. >lL > It's not 'volume shadowing' per se, but DECdfs will allow you to do thingsJ > slightly differently and may well achieve a 'better result' depending onK > what you're trying to achieve. Worth thinking about. I'm a big fan of it.l >hC > -----------------------------------------------------------------b > Hope this helps, Colin.r+ > colin DOT butcher AT xdelta DOT co DOT uk J > Systems Archaeologist - Investigation & troubleshooting of older systems anda > networks.e >g >V  K The plus side to DFS is that the touchdown area on the client shows up as a E local disk drive.  If you want to "copy" a file to all of your client'H systems, you can easily put a copy in their touchdown area on the serverG system.  This is Great for small file transfers.  Not to good for large2G files.  The downside to DFS is that the transfer speed is about 1/3 thecL speed of a regular DECNET copy on a dedicated decnet network (100MBS FastFD)L I.E.  If I am trying to move a 1GIG file from system A to system B, the copyL using DFS will take 3 times as long as the copy just using DECNET.  When DFSG engineering was prompted for why this was so?  They just kinda shruggedrK their sholders and said that was the way it worked.  I suppose that this isaJ not a problem if you are transfering small files.  But when you are tryingL to backup a 250+Gig database on each production cluster,  this is not a good thing.  L We are in the process of phasing out the DFS functionality for a SNAP volumeH on the EVA.  The snapped volume gets presented to the backup cluster whoK then streams it off to tapes.  We are the only HP client that the EVA folksaL know who is using an EVA strictly for backups.  (??? You want to do what???) :-)   F We timed an oracle hot backup of a production database stored on HSG80I drives that was being written to an EVA presented disk at 75 GIG an hour.dA We got 35 GIG an hour when writing to another HSG80 backup drive.     
 Mike Naime   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 21:12:47 -0500 (CDT)t0 From: Kevin Monceaux <OwnedByDogs@grandecom.net> Subject: Re: Web Apps for VMS-I Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0307302107470.19634-100000@Linux.monceaux.com>k  J I'm a little behind on reading my Info-VAX mail.  Oddly enough today I wasJ thinking about installing a web server on my VAX and then came across thisH thread.  I have Apache/PHP/MySQL running on a couple of Linux boxes.  ItH would be nice to have Apache available for the VAX architecture.  One ofG these days I really should locate a previously loved Alpha so I can tryeG out VMS for the Alpha paltform.  Of the two web servers available for atJ VAX what are the differences and which would be a good one as a first try?     Thanks,l   Kevinr  # On Mon, 9 Jun 2003, JF Mezei wrote:g   > Yes. >eO > There are a few web servers available. OSU and WASD work on all VMS machines. O > Apache (renamed with a  proprietary CSWS name) work only on Alpha-VMS becausen > it is done by the VMS folks.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 02:29:27 GMTiL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") Subject: Re: Web Apps for VMS 6 Message-ID: <00A23A59.5A67DFAF@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  O In article <Pine.LNX.4.50.0307302107470.19634-100000@Linux.monceaux.com>, Kevinr, Monceaux <OwnedByDogs@grandecom.net> writes:  K >I'm a little behind on reading my Info-VAX mail.  Oddly enough today I wasIK >thinking about installing a web server on my VAX and then came across this I >thread.  I have Apache/PHP/MySQL running on a couple of Linux boxes.  It I >would be nice to have Apache available for the VAX architecture.  One ofdH >these days I really should locate a previously loved Alpha so I can tryH >out VMS for the Alpha paltform.  Of the two web servers available for aK >VAX what are the differences and which would be a good one as a first try?E >7  N I think WASD is probably easier to get started with.  OSU also runs very well,K but WASD has really excellent documentation and there's a certain amount of K stuff you'll only get on OSU from reading the code or asking on the supportn list.      < shameless plug >  I You can overcome some of the getting-started documentation woes by buyingeB my book: OpenVMS with Apache, OSU, and WASD: The Nonstop WebserverN (20%  discount on this and other VMS-related titles from Digital Press if you @ click through from the link on the www.openvms.compaq.com page).   </shameless plug>8  F If you want to run WASD, join info-WASD; if you want to run OSU, join L VMS-WEB-DAEMON.  You can ask beginner or advanced questions in either place,  and get answers round-the-clock.   -- Alan<     -- BO ===============================================================================.0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056sM  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025cO ===============================================================================    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 23:21:41 -0400e) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> 3 Subject: Re: Yamahill? Prescott? Wot's it all mean?o9 Message-ID: <bX%Va.6260$Cx4.759203@news20.bellglobal.com>e  . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageB news:3UgVa.76188$vz%.69614@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...H > http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=&e=5&u=/pcworld/20030 > 728/tc_pcworld/111508t >mF > "Sixty-four bits is of great use in the back office, for servers andD > databases," says Intel spokesperson George Alfs. "The big iron hasF > good use for 64-bits," he adds, but says the company isn't convinced0 > the technology yet has a place on the desktop. > G > "It's hard to peg an exact time for this transition," Alfs adds. "The:E > infrastructure isn't here today," but, he notes, "we're keeping our  > options open." >oE > Intel wants to keep 64-bit computing as a server technology for thenF > time being, so it can sell more Itanium processors, Krewell says. ItF > doesn't want to sell the Itanium as a desktop processor. Plus, thereF > is a key difference between the Itanium and the Apple and AMD chips.F > While the G5 and Athlon 64 can run 32-bit applications natively, theG > Itanium is a pure 64-bit chip that requires slower software emulation  > to run 32-bit apps.e >mB > Rumors persist, however, that Intel has created a 32- and 64-bitH > capable processor code-named Yamhill that could ship should the 64-bitG > desktop market heat up, Krewell says. If such a technology exists, itlF > could even be seeded into Intel's next-generation desktop processor,G > code-named Prescott, which is due this year. Intel's Alfs declines to0  > comment on the Yamhill rumors. >.H > Epic's Sweeney agrees that Intel seems reluctant to move to 64 bits onE > the desktop, but he says the company is too savvy to let others gett% > ahead on this important technology.  > F > "In the next two years, either Intel will ship a 64-bit desktop chipD > or it will lose the majority of its consumer and business market,"F > Sweeney says. "If I was in Intel's position, I would be working...toF > get a 64-bit chip ready, but in the meantime, I would be downplaying > the importance of 64 bits."i >d  F Just to add a little clarification, Yamhill is supposed to be a 64 bitI extension to the x86 RISC family (which would compete directly with AMD'seN Opteron) while Itanium is the first member of Intel's EPIC family. They really are apples and oranges.f  
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,m Ontario, Canada.! http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/s   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 23:49:25 -0400F) From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.nospam@istop.com>r3 Subject: Re: Yamahill? Prescott? Wot's it all mean?o) Message-ID: <3F2891B5.3F11AED7@istop.com>a   Neil Rieck wrote:1H > Just to add a little clarification, Yamhill is supposed to be a 64 bitK > extension to the x86 RISC family (which would compete directly with AMD's P > Opteron) while Itanium is the first member of Intel's EPIC family. They really > are apples and oranges.i  G Which one would be industry standard ?  As long as the 8086 remains theoI industry standard, IA64 has no chance of becoming what HP has promised it0N would become. And if Intel produces a 64 bit 8086, then the 8086 will continueI to be the high volume industry standard for a long long time. (especiallyiN since it will be available from multiple sources, whereas IA64 is proprietary, available from Intel only).a   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 20:49:08 +0100l( From: "John Travell" <john@jomatech.com>/ Subject: Re: [Change topic -> OT] Pence/Penniest9 Message-ID: <bg97h9$lmhcv$1@ID-120847.news.uni-berlin.de>n  ) <norm.raphael@metso.com> wrote in message-9 news:OFECF21BC1.1DE4DF22-ON85256D73.004D7A9A@metso.com...9 > @ > I thought that was tuppence, thruppence, or is/was that slang?H > I also thought pence was the denomination name for old pence, and that6 > new pence became interchangable with penny, pennies.< > Pence, therefore, like moose, is both singular and plural. >o  G Perhaps just a personal point of view, but I am old enough to have made ; extensive use of the pre-decimalisation currency in the UK.lH I would agree that 'pennies' is correct in the example given, "there areL four pennies on the table", if, but only if, you are referring to just that,) a number of coins all of one penny value. J We would not, for example, quote the price of a meat pie as 73 pennies. WeJ would specify 73 pence. Maybe a pint of beer as 2 pounds 48 pence (about 41 dollars, and yes, some are even more expensive!).aF We would however, say 'a pound and a penny' if it were the appropriate price.   So. % Pence is all values between 2 and 99,p( Penny is only for the singular item, and> Pennies is only for multiple instances of the unit value coin.     -- John Travell" Independent VMS crashdump analyst. john@jomatech.coms +44-(0)23-92552229 http://www.jomatech.com/       ---o& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A Version: 6.0.504 / Virus Database: 302 - Release Date: 24/07/2003o   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Jul 2003 15:20:22 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)k/ Subject: Re: [Change topic -> OT] Pence/Pennies=3 Message-ID: <+DeHymxhTnGl@eisner.encompasserve.org>c  d In article <bg97h9$lmhcv$1@ID-120847.news.uni-berlin.de>, "John Travell" <john@jomatech.com> writes:  L > We would not, for example, quote the price of a meat pie as 73 pennies. WeL > would specify 73 pence. Maybe a pint of beer as 2 pounds 48 pence (about 43 > dollars, and yes, some are even more expensive!).aH > We would however, say 'a pound and a penny' if it were the appropriate > price. >  > So.c' > Pence is all values between 2 and 99,[* > Penny is only for the singular item, and@ > Pennies is only for multiple instances of the unit value coin.  F That is the same as the US, except we use "cents" rather than "pence".   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 22:12:49 GMTmL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")/ Subject: Re: [Change topic -> OT] Pence/Pennies 6 Message-ID: <00A23A35.80C3BF4D@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  c In article <+DeHymxhTnGl@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: e >In article <bg97h9$lmhcv$1@ID-120847.news.uni-berlin.de>, "John Travell" <john@jomatech.com> writes:  >aM >> We would not, for example, quote the price of a meat pie as 73 pennies. WeyM >> would specify 73 pence. Maybe a pint of beer as 2 pounds 48 pence (about 4.4 >> dollars, and yes, some are even more expensive!).I >> We would however, say 'a pound and a penny' if it were the appropriatet	 >> price., >> e >> So.( >> Pence is all values between 2 and 99,+ >> Penny is only for the singular item, and A >> Pennies is only for multiple instances of the unit value coin.  >dG >That is the same as the US, except we use "cents" rather than "pence".S  ) I was going to agree, but actually we sayu  ? "For just pennies a month" or "Just a few cents a month" prettyuF interchangeably, so it's not completely the same.  (Here, we're reallyH referring to a small amount of value, not a particular number of coins.)  L (Does this discussion of how to enumerate plural lowest-denominated currencyI amounts have anything to do with the packed-decimal discussion on anothere thread?)   -- Alany     --  O ===============================================================================a0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056-M  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025iO ===============================================================================    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 15:39:15 -07007# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>S/ Subject: RE: [Change topic -> OT] Pence/Pennies"9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIEEOHHKAA.tom@kednos.com>w   >-----Original Message----- , >From: "Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr"( >[mailto:winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU]' >Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 3:13 PM9 >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com0 >Subject: Re: [Change topic -> OT] Pence/Pennies >o >i4 >In article <+DeHymxhTnGl@eisner.encompasserve.org>,0 >Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:A >>In article <bg97h9$lmhcv$1@ID-120847.news.uni-berlin.de>, "Johnv% >Travell" <john@jomatech.com> writes:h >>B >>> We would not, for example, quote the price of a meat pie as 73 >pennies. We? >>> would specify 73 pence. Maybe a pint of beer as 2 pounds 48o >pence (about 4d5 >>> dollars, and yes, some are even more expensive!).eJ >>> We would however, say 'a pound and a penny' if it were the appropriate
 >>> price. >>>. >>> So.A) >>> Pence is all values between 2 and 99, , >>> Penny is only for the singular item, andB >>> Pennies is only for multiple instances of the unit value coin. >>H >>That is the same as the US, except we use "cents" rather than "pence". > * >I was going to agree, but actually we say > @ >"For just pennies a month" or "Just a few cents a month" prettyG >interchangeably, so it's not completely the same.  (Here, we're reallyeI >referring to a small amount of value, not a particular number of coins.)u >r1 >(Does this discussion of how to enumerate plural  >lowest-denominated currencyJ >amounts have anything to do with the packed-decimal discussion on another	 >thread?)=  K No, because pennies will fit into the binary float mantissa, but after thats you are  on your own 8-)  >  >-- Alan >- >- >---D >===================================================================
 >============p1 > Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUg@ > Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:
 >650/926-3056rC > Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Parkt >CA   94025sD >===================================================================
 >============v >s >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.t; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).-A >Version: 6.0.502 / Virus Database: 300 - Release Date: 7/18/2003l >o ---b& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.502 / Virus Database: 300 - Release Date: 7/18/2003   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Jul 2003 18:18:41 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)h/ Subject: Re: [Change topic -> OT] Pence/Pennies 3 Message-ID: <wF0fR+MYA3qO@eisner.encompasserve.org>u   In article <00A23A35.80C3BF4D@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>, winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") writes:ge > In article <+DeHymxhTnGl@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:of >>In article <bg97h9$lmhcv$1@ID-120847.news.uni-berlin.de>, "John Travell" <john@jomatech.com> writes: >>N >>> We would not, for example, quote the price of a meat pie as 73 pennies. WeN >>> would specify 73 pence. Maybe a pint of beer as 2 pounds 48 pence (about 45 >>> dollars, and yes, some are even more expensive!).cJ >>> We would however, say 'a pound and a penny' if it were the appropriate
 >>> price. >>>  >>> So. ) >>> Pence is all values between 2 and 99,i, >>> Penny is only for the singular item, andB >>> Pennies is only for multiple instances of the unit value coin. >>H >>That is the same as the US, except we use "cents" rather than "pence". > + > I was going to agree, but actually we sayt > A > "For just pennies a month" or "Just a few cents a month" prettya3 > interchangeably, so it's not completely the same.a  C I think the "pennies a month" slogan is just an advertising device,t< intended to conjure up the image of a small number of coins.  B Asking how much change you need back, I would not expect an answer of "four pennies".   ------------------------------   Date: 31 Jul 03 07:45:31 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)f/ Subject: Re: [Change topic -> OT] Pence/Penniesu) Message-ID: <GZq+qMI8a+wj@elias.decus.ch>c   In article <00A23A35.80C3BF4D@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>, winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") writes: e > In article <+DeHymxhTnGl@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:df >>In article <bg97h9$lmhcv$1@ID-120847.news.uni-berlin.de>, "John Travell" <john@jomatech.com> writes: >>N >>> We would not, for example, quote the price of a meat pie as 73 pennies. WeN >>> would specify 73 pence. Maybe a pint of beer as 2 pounds 48 pence (about 45 >>> dollars, and yes, some are even more expensive!).wJ >>> We would however, say 'a pound and a penny' if it were the appropriate
 >>> price. >>>  >>> So.i) >>> Pence is all values between 2 and 99, , >>> Penny is only for the singular item, andB >>> Pennies is only for multiple instances of the unit value coin. >>H >>That is the same as the US, except we use "cents" rather than "pence". > + > I was going to agree, but actually we sayr > A > "For just pennies a month" or "Just a few cents a month" prettynH > interchangeably, so it's not completely the same.  (Here, we're reallyJ > referring to a small amount of value, not a particular number of coins.) > N > (Does this discussion of how to enumerate plural lowest-denominated currencyK > amounts have anything to do with the packed-decimal discussion on anotherl
 > thread?) > J The discussion sprang from that thread. I know I mentioned "cents/pennies"E in one response, and someone else asked for a clarification of the USh meaning of a penny.    ------------------------------   Date: 31 Jul 03 07:53:22 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) / Subject: Re: [Change topic -> OT] Pence/Penniess) Message-ID: <mYKpUDWFnw+B@elias.decus.ch>o  d In article <bg97h9$lmhcv$1@ID-120847.news.uni-berlin.de>, "John Travell" <john@jomatech.com> writes:+ > <norm.raphael@metso.com> wrote in messagei; > news:OFECF21BC1.1DE4DF22-ON85256D73.004D7A9A@metso.com...g >>A >> I thought that was tuppence, thruppence, or is/was that slang? I >> I also thought pence was the denomination name for old pence, and that 7 >> new pence became interchangable with penny, pennies.r= >> Pence, therefore, like moose, is both singular and plural.  >>  C I believe you are right, although that usage has become common only  since decimalisation.b   > I > Perhaps just a personal point of view, but I am old enough to have madef= > extensive use of the pre-decimalisation currency in the UK. J > I would agree that 'pennies' is correct in the example given, "there areN > four pennies on the table", if, but only if, you are referring to just that,+ > a number of coins all of one penny value.lL > We would not, for example, quote the price of a meat pie as 73 pennies. WeL > would specify 73 pence. Maybe a pint of beer as 2 pounds 48 pence (about 43 > dollars, and yes, some are even more expensive!).0H > We would however, say 'a pound and a penny' if it were the appropriate > price. >  > So.l' > Pence is all values between 2 and 99, * > Penny is only for the singular item, and@ > Pennies is only for multiple instances of the unit value coin. >   F But there's also the usage of the symbol "p" to denote pence. That hasB led to the meat pie being sold with "That will be 73 pee, please".   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.419 ************************eplace their old one. Because of theN uncertainty about VMS, it makes it much much harder to convince anyone to move TO  VMS.  ) Can you spell MISSED OPPORTUNITIES ??????t   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Jul 2003 22:24:44 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)m< Subject: Re: Sun tries to woo AlphaServer users away from HP3 Message-ID: <XEahFenG1sOo@ei2,104,13,20) <<< RETR emacs.cshg >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/freewarev40/emacsv1928/etc/emacs.csh (1862 bytes) started.m: >>> 226 Transfer completed.  1210 (8) bytes transferred.
 <<< PASV@ >>> 227 Entering passive mode; use PORT (198,151,12,104,13,21) <<< RETR emacs.hlph >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/freewarev40/emacsv1928/etc/emacs.hlp (13313 bytes) started.; >>> 226 Transfer completed.  13311 (8) bytes transferred.2
 <<< PASV@ >>> 227 Entering passive mode; use PORT (198,151,12,104,13,22) <<< RETR emacs.iconeh >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/freewarev40/emacsv1928/etc/emacs.icon (2163 bytes) started.: >>> 226 Transfer completed.  1933 (8) bytes transferred.
 <<< PASV@ >>> 227 Entering passive mode; use PORT (198,151,12,104,13,23) <<< RETR emacs.xbmg >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/freewarev40/emacsv1928/etc/emacs.xbm (3437 bytes) started.m: >>> 226 Transfer completed.  2707 (8) bytes transferred.
 <<< PASV@ >>> 227 Entering passive mode; use PORT (198,151,12,104,13,24) <<< RETR emacstool.1i >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/freewarev40/emacsv1928/etc/emacstool.1 (5294 bytes) started.m: >>> 226 Transfer completed.  4946 (8) bytes transferred.
 <<< PASV@ >>> 227 Entering passive mode; use PORT (198,151,12,104,13,25) <<< RETR etags.1e >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/freewarev40/emacsv1928/etc/etags.1 (6250 bytes) started.r: >>> 226 Transfer completed.  6038 (8) bytes transferred.
 <<< PASV@ >>> 227 Entering passive mode; use PORT (198,151,12,104,13,26) <<< RETR etags.hlpg >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/freewarev40/emacsv1928/etc/etags.hlp (3824 bytes) started.n: >>> 226 Transfer completed.  3344 (8) bytes transferred.
 <<< PASV@ >>> 227 Entering passive mode; use PORT (198,151,12,104,13,27) <<< RETR etags.notesi >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/freewarev40/emacsv1928/etc/etags.notes (8505 bytes) started.m: >>> 226 Transfer completed.  7879 (8) bytes transferred.
 <<< PASV@ >>> 227 Entering passive mode; use PORT (198,151,12,104,13,28) <<< RETR etags.vmsg >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/freewarev40/emacsv1928/etc/etags.vms (1449 bytes) started.m9 >>> 226 Transfer completed.  599 (8) bytes transferred. 
 <<< PASV@ >>> 227 Entering passive mode; use PORT (198,151,12,104,13,29) <<< RETR faqc >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/freewarev40/emacsv1928/etc/faq (194756 bytes) started.2< >>> 226 Transfer complet