1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 05 Jun 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 309       Contents: Re: accvio from batch ! Re: Alpha hardware shop in Europe 1 Re: Another future of VMS article on the Inquirer 1 Re: Another future of VMS article on the Inquirer 1 Re: Another future of VMS article on the Inquirer 1 Re: Another future of VMS article on the Inquirer 1 Re: Another future of VMS article on the Inquirer 1 Re: Another future of VMS article on the Inquirer 1 Re: Another future of VMS article on the Inquirer 1 Re: Another future of VMS article on the Inquirer 1 Re: Another future of VMS article on the Inquirer 1 Re: Another future of VMS article on the Inquirer 1 Re: Another future of VMS article on the Inquirer  Argh- help!  Re: Argh- help!  Re: Argh- help!  Re: Argh- help!  Re: Argh- help!  Re: Argh- help!  Re: CHANNELCNT=65532 ? Re: DCL_CHECK issues Re: Firewall for VMS / TRU64 Re: Firewall for VMS / TRU64) Re: Foro Yahoo VMS de usuarios argentinos ) Re: Foro Yahoo VMS de usuarios argentinos ) Re: Foro Yahoo VMS de usuarios argentinos # Re: How to sort a list in VAX BASIC  Re: Install Directory  Re: Install Directory / Re: Intel 64 bit Pentium seems to be on its way / Re: Intel 64 bit Pentium seems to be on its way ) Re: Interpreting image exit status values ) Re: Interpreting image exit status values ) Re: Interpreting image exit status values ) Re: Interpreting image exit status values ) Re: Interpreting image exit status values ) Re: Interpreting image exit status values ) Re: Interpreting image exit status values & Re: IO - VAXes, Alphas, XFC and V7.3-1? Linux breaches at an all-time high ... Windoze security better? G Re: OT: TELNET disconnects - was: Interpreting image exit status values  Re: Portents of VMS death  Re: Portents of VMS death  Re: Portents of VMS death  Re: Portents of VMS death  Re: Portents of VMS death  Re: Portents of VMS death  Re: Portents of VMS death  Re: Portents of VMS death  RE: Portents of VMS death  Re: Portents of VMS death  Re: Portents of VMS death  Re: Portents of VMS death : Re: Radeon 7500 and XP-1000 and OpenGL 1.2: is it working? SDLT vs LTO tape library Re: SDLT vs LTO tape library Re: SDLT vs LTO tape library# smtp OPERATOR.LOG message reduction # smtp OPERATOR.LOG message reduction ' Re: smtp OPERATOR.LOG message reduction ' Re: smtp OPERATOR.LOG message reduction & Re: Speed of IDE controllers in DS10 ?P Re: Would HP even consider offering customers VMS under Scenarios A, B, or C? NaP Re: Would HP even consider offering customers VMS under Scenarios A, B, or C? NaP Re: Would HP even consider offering customers VMS under Scenarios A, B, or C? NaP Re: Would HP even consider offering customers VMS under Scenarios A, B, or C? NaE Re: [OT] Inquirer Article Origins - The Conspiracy Theories. (was Re: P [OT] Inquirer Article Origins - The Conspiracy Theories. (was Re: Another futureP Re: [OT] Inquirer Article Origins - The Conspiracy Theories. (was Re: Another fuP Re: [OT] Inquirer Article Origins - The Conspiracy Theories. (was Re: Another fuP Re: [OT] Inquirer Article Origins - The Conspiracy Theories. (was Re: Another fu0 Re: [The Inquirer] "HP trying to dump OpenVMS ?"0 Re: [The Inquirer] "HP trying to dump OpenVMS ?"0 Re: [The Inquirer] "HP trying to dump OpenVMS ?"0 Re: [The Inquirer] "HP trying to dump OpenVMS ?"0 Re: [The Inquirer] "HP trying to dump OpenVMS ?"0 Re: [The Inquirer] "HP trying to dump OpenVMS ?"  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2003 15:37:40 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: accvio from batch3 Message-ID: <jWyU7InLsL$b@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <2RpDa.4$O3.668@news-west.eli.net>, "frank brown" <frank.brown@ci.seattle.wa.us> writes: L > I wrote a VAXC app, running on VMS 5.5-2, which is submitted to the systemN > batch queue by a process which dynamically creates the DCL every few minutesM > passing the executable image (called as foreign command) a single argument.  > M > Most of the time it runs fine but occasionally, about once every 2-3 hours, G > the batch job fails with a SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO.  When I rerun it manually J > passing the same argument, it runs fine every time.  Thus I am unable toL > duplicate the error interactively.  And the ACCVIO message as displayed by= > the batch queue processor cleverly disguises the args, viz:  > K > %SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation, reason mask=!XB, virtual address=!XL,  > PC=!XL, PSL=!XL  > C > In other words it displays the FAO mask rather than a real value.  > : > How can I figure out the cause of the access violations?  F    In the DCL file, include "set process/dump".  Then analyze the dumpH    after an access violation causes one.  The first thing you are likely*    to get is the filled in ACCVIO message.  G    OBTW, you may need to add DCL to put the process dump file somewhere     the process can write.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 00:32:29 +0100 6 From: Chris Townley <news@townleyc.nospam.demon.co.uk>* Subject: Re: Alpha hardware shop in Europe8 Message-ID: <090tdvg0rh08cf2nredb6tnuoudniealcg@4ax.com>  A On Tue, 03 Jun 2003 20:21:22 +0200, Arne Vajhj <arne@vajhoej.dk>  wrote:   >Woland wrote:Q >> does anybody know about some shop like Islandco, but located somewhere in EU?  P >> I'd like to buy some older workstation, but I'm a bit afraid of the delivery  >> price from US to EU.  >  >It is not that bad. > : >And they may be cheaper than even with delivery included. >  >Arne   C I bought a POSW 433 from them a year or so ago, when I couldnt find  anything decent in the UK.  B Shipping wasnt that bad, and I planned for the VAT - it was a good deal.   + They even shipped it with a UK power cable!    --  
 Chris Townley ) chris at townleyc dot demon dot co dot uk    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 13:51:26 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>: Subject: Re: Another future of VMS article on the Inquirer) Message-ID: <3EDE319C.E216F6DC@istop.com>    Simon Clubley wrote: > 1 > There's another VMS article on the Inquirer at:  > * > http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=9835 > + > This one is also well written and argued.   K But is based on the premise that VMS generates 800 million in profits. I am I not convinced that this is true anymore and I have a nagging feeling that D since June 25 2001, VMS has gone down much faster than Compaq/HP had
 anticipated.    K Lets face it, there is only HP, IBM and Sun left. (and one could argue that N Sun may not be as "worldwide" as the other two). HP remains in a total productK transition for some time to come until that IA64 thing becomes commercially J viable. So it would be stupid to start migrating from VMS to some other HPL product at this point in time, unless HP gets so desperate that they sweetenK that "Alpha retrain trust" program with promises of free migration to HP-UX K whenever they are done with 1-migration to that IA64 thing 2-integration of  the tru64 bits.   I But if the HP people see those promises as liabilities, they would not be K interested in getting any more VMS customers at this point in time since it F would cost them a bundle later on to move them to HP's core platforms.  K It is clear to me that HP is not acting in a way to grow its customer base, J but rather in a "save face" way to help justify past decisions. This wouldJ explain the rumours that HP is slowing down EV7 and EV79 so as to not makeH IA64 look like such a dog. And they don't want to market VMS for fear of4 making its own UNIX product look pale in comparison.  I The real danger is that the real numbers for VMS during this "black hole" L transition period will get bad enough that Carly will be able to do the sameM as with Alpha: "VMS is losing money, bleeding customers and has no future, so N we will stop development after the port to IA64 is complete" but will continueK to maintain it for existing customer and continue to qualify it to new IA64  based hardware for 5 years".  L Consider that once HP-UX inherits the clustering from Digital-Unix, the hugeG gap  between its core HP-UX and its black sheep VMS  will have narrowed 8 considerably. So VMS won't have such a big edge anymore.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 13:56:20 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>: Subject: Re: Another future of VMS article on the Inquirer) Message-ID: <3EDE32C2.5DA9778E@istop.com>    Larry Kilgallen wrote:A > As I read it, it lacks any convincing evidence that advertising > > affects operating system sales.  Certainly Linux advertising? > affects company image in a certain segment of the population, ! > but that is a different effect.     N "advertising" is far more than a TV spot, print ads in IT papers, print ads inL Wall Street Journal, WEB-based ads etc. It is also a whole PR machine behindN it, such as inclusion of VMS in all those big public presentations done by HP,K mention of VMS whenever Carly and company are interviewed on business shows I etc etc. All this advertising is essentially "free" and has great impact.   N But the fact that VMS is actively omitted from such presentations sends a veryI strong message. IBM has no problem mentioning "mainframe sales". Everyone   knows that IBM mainframe = MVS.   J But nobody knows that HP sells VMS. Many don't even know that VMS is stillM alive. Many know that Alpha is dead. So it is HP's responsability to tell the M world that VMS is alive and kicking and make it a viable option wirth looking - into when you are looking for an IT solution.    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2003 19:52:06 -0000 4 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]>: Subject: Re: Another future of VMS article on the Inquirer6 Message-ID: <20030604195206.20156.qmail@gacracker.org>  J On Wed, 04 Jun 2003, brad@.gateway.2wire.net (Bradford J. Hamilton) wrote:5 > In article <P$noEGNCrduF@eisner.encompasserve.org>, F > clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) writes:2 > >There's another VMS article on the Inquirer at: > > + > >http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=9835   K > >Does anybody here want to admit to writing these ? The writing style and ? > >comments don't seem to match any of the regular COV posters,  > L > Whoever wrote it lives in the UK/Canada/EU - note the spelling of the wordP > "enamoured", for instance.  Certain other statements in the article lead me toN > believe the the poster most likely lives on the eastern side of the Atlantic > Ocean. > F > Although it doesn't *have* to be a regular c.o.v. poster, I vote for > Doc.Cypher.	:-)   ' Sorry, my name isn't on the ballot. :-)   M First, The Inquirer is UK-based.  I would assume that their editorial process K employs Oxford English in its checking of spelling and grammar.  That *may* J obscure someone US-based writing anonymously, but I'd actually narrow downN your guess to Canada or EU (excluding UK).  Personally, I do not think this is9 the work of someone with English as their mother tongue.    H Oh, and I could not have cited the list of criminals^Wmanagement withoutB referring to my "Top 100 candidates for a firing squad" list.  :-)     Doc. --  K OpenVMS.  Eight out of ten hackers                   https://vmsbox.cjb.net K           prefer *other* operating systems.        http://althacker.cjb.net    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 12:31:40 -0700 + From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> : Subject: Re: Another future of VMS article on the Inquirer' Message-ID: <3EDE491C.7010106@MMaz.com>    JF Mezei wrote:   K >But nobody knows that HP sells VMS. Many don't even know that VMS is still N >alive. Many know that Alpha is dead. So it is HP's responsability to tell theN >world that VMS is alive and kicking and make it a viable option wirth looking. >into when you are looking for an IT solution. >    > G Call HP, they don't even knowthat they sell VMS, especially if you ask  F for OpenVMS, all they hear is Openview...  That point alone should be H enough for HP to rebrand OpenVMS back to VMS and then make an effort to  push the product...    Barry    --    @ Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIO   A E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 15:30:32 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>: Subject: Re: Another future of VMS article on the Inquirer) Message-ID: <3EDE48D0.9FDE73E7@istop.com>    "Doc.Cypher" wrote: # > First, The Inquirer is UK-based.    L Terry Shannon is an all american boy who has contributed under many names toJ that publication. So I don't draw any conclusions on author etc etc. All IL know is that when an article is actually signed by Mr Shannon, it means that8 the article is more likely to toe the HP corporate line.  P > your guess to Canada or EU (excluding UK).  Personally, I do not think this is: > the work of someone with English as their mother tongue.  K Actually, I was thinking of Alan Grieg. His absence from newsgroup may have I just meant he refocused his spare energy to writing for the Inquirer. :-)     M Have you ever considered that the author may in fact be Sue sending the stuff  from a home computer?   N Or, in a more demented way, it could be Peter Blackmore writing those articlesK to sustain the image that HP has no intentions to grow VMS, thus helping HP . achieve its goal of getting rid of VMS :-) :-)  5 Or, while we are at it, it could be Andrew Harrisson. N Or Paul McCartney, Prince William, Jacques Chirac, Ken Olsen, Bob Dole, Nelson Mandella  :-) ;-) :-) :-)    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 21:05:12 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> : Subject: Re: Another future of VMS article on the InquirerI Message-ID: <catDa.126959$cK1.26773@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   7 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message # news:3EDE32C2.5DA9778E@istop.com...  >  > C > "advertising" is far more than a TV spot, print ads in IT papers,  print ads in? > Wall Street Journal, WEB-based ads etc. It is also a whole PR  machine behindD > it, such as inclusion of VMS in all those big public presentations done by HP, > > mention of VMS whenever Carly and company are interviewed on business showsC > etc etc. All this advertising is essentially "free" and has great  impact.   = HP will find a way to charge back every mention of VMS by its B executive...after all, they have to go to expensive speech therapyD classes to learn how to say 'VMS', and drama classes to learn how to say it without grimacing.       C > But the fact that VMS is actively omitted from such presentations  sends a veryB > strong message. IBM has no problem mentioning "mainframe sales". Everyone! > knows that IBM mainframe = MVS.    IBM is a real company.  F The decision by IBM to hire Lou Gertner was at first greeted with someE dismay. But it was a stroke of genius. Here was a guy who was used to B selling intangibles most of his career and he arrives at a companyF that sells both intangibles and tangible. What a wonderful environment for a salesman.   D Prior to joining IBM, Gerstner served for four years as chairman and? chief executive officer of RJR Nabisco, Inc. (a noted vendor of > carcinogens (perhaps that's a tangible) and crackers) This wasC preceded by an 11-year career at American Express Company, where he ? was president of the parent company and chairman and CEO of its D largest subsidiary, American Express Travel Related Services CompanyD (selling essentially intangibles). Prior to that, Mr. Gerstner was aB director of the management consulting firm of McKinsey & Co., Inc.< (selling mostly smoke and mirrors), which he joined in 1965.      % > But nobody knows that HP sells VMS.    Including most people at HP.      / > Many don't even know that VMS is still alive.    Including most IT buyers.        > Many know that Alpha is dead.   ' HP makes sure that everyone knows that.       F > So it is HP's responsability to tell the world that VMS is alive andC kicking and make it a viable option wirth looking into when you are  looking for an IT solution.   E HP: "Still alive and kicking you say? Quick - put another pillow over ? its mouth and nose!! And hold the bloody thing down this time!"    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2003 16:47:35 -0700 ( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski): Subject: Re: Another future of VMS article on the Inquirer< Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0306041547.dcabd0b@posting.google.com>  [ JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message news:<3EDE319C.E216F6DC@istop.com>...  > Simon Clubley wrote: > > 3 > > There's another VMS article on the Inquirer at:  > > , > > http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=9835 > > - > > This one is also well written and argued.  > M > But is based on the premise that VMS generates 800 million in profits. I am K > not convinced that this is true anymore and I have a nagging feeling that F > since June 25 2001, VMS has gone down much faster than Compaq/HP had > anticipated.   > M > Lets face it, there is only HP, IBM and Sun left. (and one could argue that P > Sun may not be as "worldwide" as the other two). HP remains in a total productM > transition for some time to come until that IA64 thing becomes commercially L > viable. So it would be stupid to start migrating from VMS to some other HPN > product at this point in time, unless HP gets so desperate that they sweetenM > that "Alpha retrain trust" program with promises of free migration to HP-UX M > whenever they are done with 1-migration to that IA64 thing 2-integration of  > the tru64 bits.  > K > But if the HP people see those promises as liabilities, they would not be M > interested in getting any more VMS customers at this point in time since it H > would cost them a bundle later on to move them to HP's core platforms. > M > It is clear to me that HP is not acting in a way to grow its customer base, L > but rather in a "save face" way to help justify past decisions. This wouldL > explain the rumours that HP is slowing down EV7 and EV79 so as to not makeJ > IA64 look like such a dog. And they don't want to market VMS for fear of6 > making its own UNIX product look pale in comparison. > K > The real danger is that the real numbers for VMS during this "black hole" N > transition period will get bad enough that Carly will be able to do the sameO > as with Alpha: "VMS is losing money, bleeding customers and has no future, so P > we will stop development after the port to IA64 is complete" but will continueM > to maintain it for existing customer and continue to qualify it to new IA64  > based hardware for 5 years". > N > Consider that once HP-UX inherits the clustering from Digital-Unix, the hugeI > gap  between its core HP-UX and its black sheep VMS  will have narrowed : > considerably. So VMS won't have such a big edge anymore.  B have you gone mad?  what about security?  unix/linux is worse thanA windoze!  and that pseudo vms clustering will never 100% resemble B a vms cluster ... want unix/linux security? read about it here ...  ( http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=9845   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 21:06:11 -0500, From: "Dave Gudewicz" <k9jdk@NOSPAMarrl.net>: Subject: Re: Another future of VMS article on the Inquirer/ Message-ID: <vdt9ckfrvncl61@corp.supernews.com>   L Since I didn't see any others say this....  I sent the link of this article,I called it the VMS gauntlet article (the sequel) to Stallard, Marcello and  Gorham.    Dave...   G "Simon Clubley" <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> wrote in 5 message news:P$noEGNCrduF@eisner.encompasserve.org... 1 > There's another VMS article on the Inquirer at:  > * > http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=9835 > + > This one is also well written and argued.  > J > Does anybody here want to admit to writing these ? The writing style and> > comments don't seem to match any of the regular COV posters, >  > Simon. >  > --  = > Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP D > VMS advocate: One who makes a Mac advocate look like a beginner at	 advocacy.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 21:33:57 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> : Subject: Re: Another future of VMS article on the Inquirer' Message-ID: <3EDEAC15.49548A16@fsi.net>    Dave Gudewicz wrote: > N > Since I didn't see any others say this....  I sent the link of this article,K > called it the VMS gauntlet article (the sequel) to Stallard, Marcello and 	 > Gorham.   @ ...and, of course, you'll let us know if you get a reply, right?  A What about the last dispatch to them? Ever hear back from anyone?    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 23:17:38 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>: Subject: Re: Another future of VMS article on the Inquirer) Message-ID: <3EDEB650.5FC586C0@istop.com>   M > > called it the VMS gauntlet article (the sequel) to Stallard, Marcello and  > > Gorham.   M In a war, you generally avoid sending any of your intelligence to your ennemy & and ensure you send it only to allies.  M Stallard, Blackmore, Winkler etc are ennemies who show no inclination to want J VMS to succeed. I am not sure about Marcello anymore. At best, I think his9 hands are tied now and he can't act. Gorham is powerless.   J Does Blackmore report to Carly ? If so, then he should be the target or anO intelligent campaign to convince him of the value and potential of growing VMS.   F If you send to multiple recipients, do not expect an answer since each4 repicient will think the other will have handled it.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 22:13:07 -0700 " From: GreyCloud <cumulus@mist.com>: Subject: Re: Another future of VMS article on the Inquirer( Message-ID: <3EDED163.1A586D44@mist.com>   Bob Ceculski wrote:  >  > D > have you gone mad?  what about security?  unix/linux is worse thanC > windoze!  and that pseudo vms clustering will never 100% resemble D > a vms cluster ... want unix/linux security? read about it here ... > * > http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=9845  6 Surely, you don't believe everything you read do you??   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 18:16:35 -0700 % From: Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com>  Subject: Argh- help!( Message-ID: <3EDE99F3.8030006@rdrop.com>  I I've got a DPWS 500 with a bad NIC on the system board. I put a DE500 in  I and just use EWB0, but I'm inundated with carrier check failure messages   from the unused NIC.  ( How do I disable this thing permanently?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 19:23:27 -0600 % From: Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com>  Subject: Re: Argh- help!A Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20030604192233.02255d48@raptor.psccos.com>   * At 07:16 PM 6/4/2003, Dean Woodward wrote:J >I've got a DPWS 500 with a bad NIC on the system board. I put a DE500 in J >and just use EWB0, but I'm inundated with carrier check failure messages  >from the unused NIC.  > ) >How do I disable this thing permanently?   J DECnet errors?  For phase IV, turn and define the line & circuit state off& via NCP.  For phase V, I have no idea.       ------J +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+J | Dan O'Reilly                  |  "There are 10 types of people in this |J | Principal Engineer            |   world: those who understand binary   |J | Process Software              |   and those who don't."                |J | http://www.process.com        |                                        |J +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 02:05:26 +0000 - From: David B Sneddon <dbsneddon@bigpond.com>  Subject: Re: Argh- help!* Message-ID: <3EDEA566.5020302@bigpond.com>   Dean Woodward wrote:K > I've got a DPWS 500 with a bad NIC on the system board. I put a DE500 in  K > and just use EWB0, but I'm inundated with carrier check failure messages   > from the unused NIC. > * > How do I disable this thing permanently? >    Assuming DECnet V.' Assuming that EWA0 was called CSMACD-0.   E In SYS$MANAGER:*.NCL look for references to CSMACD-0.  Edit the files 1 to either comment out or delete these references. ; To stop the messages, NCL DISABLE ROUTING CIRCUIT CSMACD-0.    Regards, Dave.  --  I David B Sneddon (dbs)    VMS Systems Programmer     dbsneddon@bigpond.com I Sneddo's quick guide ...          http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/ I DBS freeware at ...   http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/software.htm I "Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans" Lennon    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 01:57:07 GMT 1 From: "Ken Randell" <kenneth.randell@verizon.net>  Subject: Re: Argh- help!7 Message-ID: <TrxDa.44902$Pb.31033@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>   : For Phase-V, my NCL is rusty, but isn't it something like:  % NCL DISABLE CSMA-CD STATION CSMACD-n,   3 where n is 0 for EWA0, 1 for EWB0, 2 for EWC0, etc.   + but you have to do this each time you boot.   J You would want to look at using NET$CONFIGURE or the resulting NCL command files in SYS$MANAGER.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 21:30:15 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>  Subject: Re: Argh- help!' Message-ID: <3EDEAB37.162F4FB8@fsi.net>    Dean Woodward wrote: > J > I've got a DPWS 500 with a bad NIC on the system board. I put a DE500 inJ > and just use EWB0, but I'm inundated with carrier check failure messages > from the unused NIC. > * > How do I disable this thing permanently?   As Dan said, kill it in NCP:    NCP> SET CIRCUIT EWA-0 STATE OFF NCP> CLEAR CIRCUIT EWA-0 ALL NCP> PURGE CIRCUIT EWA-0 ALL NCP> SET LINE EWA-0 STATE OFF  NCP> CLEAR LINE EWA-0 ALL  NCP> PURGE LINE EWA-0 ALL   H Again, if you're using DECnet-V, it may take years to divine the correctF incantations to accomplish such simple tasks, but I'm sure someone whoD has already done it can provide some insights. Perhaps NET$CONFIGURE will be helpful. Dunno.    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 06:55:02 +0200  From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> Subject: Re: Argh- help!2 Message-ID: <bbmina$9al$1@news1.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>   Dean Woodward wrote:K > I've got a DPWS 500 with a bad NIC on the system board. I put a DE500 in  K > and just use EWB0, but I'm inundated with carrier check failure messages   > from the unused NIC. > * > How do I disable this thing permanently? >     P Supposing you are running DECnet-Plus, the most elegant way is to redo parts of E the configuration procedure. ( @sys$manager net$configure advanced ).   L Most likely there is a seperate section for the devices that you can choose  right away from the menu.   N In any case when the procedure finds the first (=faulty) device, and wants to M give it a name (csmacd-0), just answer < none >. This will remove the device   from the NCL files.    ------------------------------   Date: 04 Jun 2003 23:10:30 GMT( From: ka2doug@cs.commoc.sc (DL Phillips) Subject: Re: CHANNELCNT=65532 ? > Message-ID: <20030604191030.18529.00000048@mb-m07.news.cs.com>  
 >Jilly wrote:  >>DL Phillips wrote: <snips> + >> Node XXXXXX:   Parameters in use: ACTIVE B >> CHANNELCNT         65532       256        31     65535 Channels >>, >> Node XXXXXX:   Parameters in use: CURRENTB >> CHANNELCNT          1368       256        31     65535 Channels >>8 <stuff showing 1368 value was in setparams at last boot> >>H >Generally this is because you have a params file in SYS$SYSROOT and oneE >in SYS$COMMON.  Do a DIRECTORY SYS$SYSTEM:ALPHAVMSSYS.PAR and see if G >this is the case.  When VMS boots it will read the file in SYS$SYSROOT 8 >but some times the utilities use the one in SYS$COMMON. >  !!!   & $DIRECTORY SYS$SYSTEM:ALPHAVMSSYS.PAR    Directory SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSEXE]   ALPHAVMSSYS.PAR;1      Total of 1 file.$ $dir dka0:[000000...]alphavmssys.par   Directory DKA0:[SYS0.SYSEXE]   ALPHAVMSSYS.PAR;1      Total of 1 file. !!!   )     Darn, just one file. Any other ideas?        DL Phillips    !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Original post with no additional" commentary follows, so if you read it before, you can stop here. ! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! % >AlphaServer DS10/466, OpenVMS V7.1-2 "  >  PATHWORKS V6.1 Advanced Server >  >SYSMAN> param show channelcnt) >Node XXXXXX:   Parameters in use: ACTIVE E >Parameter Name   Current   Default   Minimum   Maximum Unit  Dynamic E >--------------   -------   -------   -------   ------- ----  ------- E >CHANNELCNT         65532       256        31     65535 Channels       >!!!   >   Well, that's strange.  >!!! >SYSMAN> param use current >SYSMAN> param show channelcnt* >Node XXXXXX:   Parameters in use: CURRENTE >Parameter Name   Current   Default   Minimum   Maximum Unit  Dynamic E >--------------   -------   -------   -------   ------- ----  ------- E >CHANNELCNT          1368       256        31     65535 Channels       > ' >$write sys$output f$getsyi("boottime")  >29-MAY-2003 19:39:01.00 >  >$set def sys$system6 >$dir/date/before=29-MAY-2003:19:39 *params.dat/vers=1 > - >MODPARAMS.DAT;29     23-MAR-2003 23:22:23.24 - >PARAMS.DAT;19        28-MAY-2003 16:39:46.29 - >SETPARAMS.DAT;20     28-MAY-2003 16:39:55.49  > C >$search modparams.dat;29,params.dat;19,setparams.dat;20 channelcnt  >****************************** % >SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSEXE]MODPARAMS.DAT;29  > H >MIN_CHANNELCNT = 1368   ! PATHWORKS V6 for OpenVMS 23-MAR-2003 23:22:23 >  >****************************** " >SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSEXE]PARAMS.DAT;19 > F >MIN_CHANNELCNT = 1368 ! PATHWORKS V6 FOR OPENVMS 23-MAR-2003 23:22:23 >  >****************************** % >SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSEXE]SETPARAMS.DAT;20  >  >set CHANNELCNT 1368 >$ >!!!( >    Okay, so why is ACTIVE at Max when:$ >      1) CHANNELCNT is NOT dynamic.3 >      2) CHANNELCNT was set to 1368 by the AUTOGEN ! >    just prior to the last boot. 8 >      3) CHANNELCNT should have an ACTIVE value of 1368 > ? >    Further investigation uncovered a possible reason for the  ; >    65532 value's existence, but not for it's persistence.  >!!!/ >$search *params.dat;* channelcnt,65532/mat=and  >  >****************************** $ >SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSEXE]MODPARAMS.DAT;7 > H >MIN_CHANNELCNT = 65532  ! PATHWORKS V5 for OpenVMS 18-APR-2000 10:13:35 >  >****************************** " >SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSEXE]PARAMS.DAT;15 > G >MIN_CHANNELCNT = 65532 ! PATHWORKS V5 FOR OPENVMS 18-APR-2000 10:13:35  >  >****************************** % >SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSEXE]SETPARAMS.DAT;15  >  >set CHANNELCNT 65532  >$ >!!!7 >    So, way back when, PATHWORKS set MIN_~ to 65532. I : >    don't know and I don't really care now why it did so.7 >    It is possible that the ACTIVE value has been such = >    since then even though it has gone though many autogens  : >    and reboots with smaller, more normal values. I just  >    haven't notice it before. > : >    But why doesn't the SET command in SETPARAMS actually >    set the requested value?  > = >    Searching on-line OpenVMS documentation at HP yields the  >    typical response." >        (*) openvms documentation >        search: CHANNELCNT / >        No results were found for your search.  > : >    Searching the Wizard and Googling c.o.v. yields quite> >    a lot of discussion about the relationship of channelcnt > >    to various products but nothing I could find relevant to = >    this condition. The doc's I have in-hand just define the ? >    parameter (misleadingly) and mention its consideration in  @ >    tuning a backup account. These things I already understand. > 9 >    There should Possibly be something in a release note 9 >    and/or an ECO about this CHANNELCNT phenomenon but I 9 >    can't find it. Anyone have any insight they wish to   >    share?  > 7 >    I'm hoping that a MODPARAMS MAX_CHANNELCNT = 1368, 8 >    autogen and reboot will work, but I can't try that  >    until the weekend.  > 0 >    FWIW, This is a very lightly loaded system: >!!!
 >$show users  8 >      OpenVMS User Processes at  3-JUN-2003 10:17:23.53: >    Total number of users = 20,  number of processes = 21 >    ... >  >$ show mem/phys/slots > G >Physical Memory Usage (pages):  Total     Free      In Use    ModifiedcG >  Main Memory (384.00Mb)        49152    33391       13614        2147  >tG >Slot Usage (slots):             Total     Free    Resident     SwappedtG >  Process Entry Slots             200      150          50           0iG >  Balance Set Slots               198      150          48           0  > F >Of the physical pages in use, 4763 pages are permanently allocated... >$ >!!! >  e >    DL Phillips   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 00:44:13 +0100i6 From: Chris Townley <news@townleyc.nospam.demon.co.uk> Subject: Re: DCL_CHECK issuesu8 Message-ID: <vs0tdv83e6end366pl9hc46kpfs5b39hqg@4ax.com>  F On Wed, 04 Jun 2003 13:19:55 GMT, hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond) wrote:N   <snip> >?O >If you would like a copy of the current version of DCL_CHECK, please email me.4/ >If you can't reach me, try posting here again.  >o >hC I am sure there are loads of us who would love the new version - isi+ there any chance of putting on an ftp site?e  8 It is a great tool, but always looking for the latest... -- n
 Chris Townleye) chris at townleyc dot demon dot co dot uks   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2003 13:10:22 -0700n( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)% Subject: Re: Firewall for VMS / TRU64 < Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0306041210.78c4be8@posting.google.com>   Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<bbkbek$4on$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...F > F >    External firewall boxes are an inexpensive and effective option."  > End quote ==================== > < > Now I could believe you or I could believe the wizard, its< > a difficult choice but on the basis of track record I will > go with the wizard.t > ; > All of which tends to suggest that you would be better ofo; > not using the send button without thinking or researchings: > your subject. You should have taken my advice earlier in; > the thread you would be looking less confused if you had.P > 	 > RegardsL > Andrew Harrison?  C well Andrew, you strike out again, because the wizard unfortunatelyTE has to deal with ucx and doesn't know anything about the capabilities C of TCPware ... packet filtering, encrypted decnet over IP, ssh2 ...pD add to that the security VMS offers and as defcon9 proved, I believe: you could run a VMS box as a firewall very effectively ...   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 19:55:42 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>o% Subject: Re: Firewall for VMS / TRU64n' Message-ID: <3EDE950E.B5BF103D@fsi.net>o   Bob Ceculski wrote:r >  > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<bbkbek$4on$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...h > >sH > >    External firewall boxes are an inexpensive and effective option."" > > End quote ==================== > >t> > > Now I could believe you or I could believe the wizard, its> > > a difficult choice but on the basis of track record I will > > go with the wizard.a > > = > > All of which tends to suggest that you would be better ofe= > > not using the send button without thinking or researchinge< > > your subject. You should have taken my advice earlier in= > > the thread you would be looking less confused if you had.n > >" > > Regardsq > > Andrew Harrisond > E > well Andrew, you strike out again, because the wizard unfortunately-G > has to deal with ucx and doesn't know anything about the capabilitiessE > of TCPware ... packet filtering, encrypted decnet over IP, ssh2 ...eF > add to that the security VMS offers and as defcon9 proved, I believe< > you could run a VMS box as a firewall very effectively ...  H Well, the burden of proof, I'm sorry to say, is on you. Can "it" be doneF with TCPware? Provide effective firewall capabilities without actually) installing specialized firewall software?h  @ If you can do it, post your data - the config.'s, the tests, theE results, etc. - and it will be a feather in your cap. Maybe even land2 you a new job, y'never knowa  F Make unsubstantiated claims and they will be the albatross around your neck.n  > A word to the wise - if you're at all open to it: Yes, this isF "comp.os.vms", not "comp.os.balanced-viewpoint". Still, it's one thingE to be firm in your beliefs and convictions, as you clearly are - likeCD many of us. It's something else entirely to be simply a cheerleader,D with no proof or evidence, just empty claims (say: "sales-critter"),G vis-a-vis claims about the futures of Alpha/NT, Alpha itself, VMS, etc.a  A In short, put your evidence where your keyboard (read: mouth) is.z  F Sorry if this sounds too stern. I'm trying to help, weak attempt as it	 may be...    -- e David J. DachteraA dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 21:05:37 -05002 From: "Stuart Johnson" <ssj152 AT charter DOT net>2 Subject: Re: Foro Yahoo VMS de usuarios argentinos/ Message-ID: <vdt9cnifbphp62@corp.supernews.com>.  5 "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote in messagea/ news:bbkorj$9jgmi$2@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de...e1 > In article <vdqs2mfih20g06@corp.supernews.com>,o6 > "Stuart Johnson" <ssj152 AT charter DOT net> writes: > >tB > > Not off-topic? Last time I looked this was an English-speaking newsgroup. I >tH > Where exactly does it say that?  I hope your don't mean in the Charter > for the newsgroup:( >  "DEC's VAX* line of computers & VMS." >nC > Hmmmm....  Doesn't even mention Alpha, maybe their off-topic too.a >aK > > have nothing against speaking another language or a different language, ' > > especially where it IS appropriate.  > >iH > > I don't think it would have been a burden for the original poster of such aJ > > self-serving (follow me to OUR newsgroup...) and off-topic (unless you speakc > > Spanish) >tG > You keep saying "off-topic", I would love to know where it says that.c > J > >          post to have made the header in the language of the newsgroup > > (English), >wJ > Actually, as uncommon as it is to find an American that speaks more thanG > one language, there are likely a lot more native English speakers whorF > understand Spanish than native Spanish speakers who can use English. >fH > >            perhaps explaining what he was doing - for the benefit of thosed0 > > readers not speaking his language (Spanish). >BE > Spanish is not one of my languages, but even I could tell what thate+ > short message said and what it was about.o >tA > I have in the past and will in the future respond to people whomB > ask for help in any newsgroup in the language they choose to useA > if I am able.  I guess having the opportunity to live in EuropeoC > has removed all the zenophobia fromn me that seems so common here  > in the US. >m > bill >  > --  L > Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesF > bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton   |@ > Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>  K Thank you oh great defender of the downtrodden... or whatever you aspire to H be. I truly dislike your posting style as It is my belief it lessens theH intelligibility of what you say. In your case, it wasn't much of a loss.  H The original  poster wrote in what is to most of the group, intelligibleL gibberish, and you defend his saying that because "you help people that postC their plea in another language"? Friend, he wasn't asking for help.n  H You say you would help someone regardless of the language they used? BigJ deal; who wouldn't? This person did what you did - waste bandwidth. As farD as that goes, so did I. Twice now. I guess it is about time to quit.  I By the way, Spanish IS the language I took in school; I rather like it. IeF guess that means I'm not a xenophobe, since I chose to study a foreignE language. This is off topic here, though. I thought you might need ant example of something off-topic.x   Stuart Johnson my 2cents worthP   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 02:23:29 GMTnL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")2 Subject: Re: Foro Yahoo VMS de usuarios argentinos6 Message-ID: <00A20E57.3E1EBEEC@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  d In article <vdt9cnifbphp62@corp.supernews.com>, "Stuart Johnson" <ssj152 AT charter DOT net> writes:  I >The original  poster wrote in what is to most of the group, intelligibletM >gibberish, and you defend his saying that because "you help people that postrD >their plea in another language"? Friend, he wasn't asking for help. > I >You say you would help someone regardless of the language they used? Big K >deal; who wouldn't? This person did what you did - waste bandwidth. As fariE >as that goes, so did I. Twice now. I guess it is about time to quit.d > J >By the way, Spanish IS the language I took in school; I rather like it. IG >guess that means I'm not a xenophobe, since I chose to study a foreignaF >language. This is off topic here, though. I thought you might need an  >example of something off-topic. >   K I really have trouble understanding/agreeing with your position.  You claimfI that Spanish is inappropriate for this group.  The guy has set up a forumaI where you can talk about DEC stuff including VMS in Spanish, and posted abK notice of that.  While I'm not interested in joining the group, I can't seeoJ that he did anything wrong.  And I can't see why he should have posted hisK notice in English, when he's trying to get Spanish-speaking Argentinians tohG join his group.  And if his group is successful, it will give someplaceSJ other than comp.os.vms for Spanish speakers who don't speak English to getA help, and probably reduce the non-English traffic on comp.os.vms.a  B I applaud his efforts to provide more support for Spanish-speakingI Argentinians  who use DEC-originated equipment.  What's your problem with  it?e   -- lan       -- eO ===============================================================================e0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056sM  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025 O ===============================================================================e   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 23:19:16 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>2 Subject: Re: Foro Yahoo VMS de usuarios argentinos) Message-ID: <3EDEB6B3.677F4C72@istop.com>n  * Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr wrote:K > that Spanish is inappropriate for this group.  The guy has set up a forumgK > where you can talk about DEC stuff including VMS in Spanish, and posted aSM > notice of that.  While I'm not interested in joining the group, I can't seeo > that he did anything wrong.   
 I agree 100%.t  I It is those who are discussing this topic who are "trolling".  (which now  makes me guilty too !)   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 20:32:31 +0200+ From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl> , Subject: Re: How to sort a list in VAX BASIC5 Message-ID: <bble00$asvjh$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>*  7 "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@cs.uofs.edu> schreef in bericht / news:bbaoei$7dipa$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de... 7 > In article <bb8kps$71nm0$1@id-143435.news.dfncis.de>,h/ > "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl> writes:aH > > Don't be surprised: the other day I was asked (requested) to send an UltrixI > > kit to a student who had to build a web page on a VAXstation3100 that  had toE > > run Ultrix. If it is true then this is entirely understandable...e >tD > I would be surprised.  No reputable school I know of would requireD > students to use un-licensed, stolen software for legitimate schoolD > work.  You can not get a license for any version of VAX Ultrix andD > the owner absolutely refuses to allow any form of un-licensed use.D > The copyright holder recommends the use of NetBSD if you need Unix > on a VAX.u >t > bill >.  E Which is why I asked for some way of proof of ownership of a license.r! Never got an answer of course ...a   Hans   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 14:04:47 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> Subject: Re: Install Directory) Message-ID: <3EDE34BC.9D2E61DA@istop.com>S   Charlie Hammond wrote:9 > Please look at it again.  You now *CAN* ask questions. w  J At what point did PRODUCT INSTALL gain the capability to interactively askM questions and deliver files to multiple separate destinations ? (for instancea# $DISK2:[ALLIN1...] and SYS$LIBRARY:A  M I checked last year in the documentation available on the VMS web site, (7.2)tM and it didn't seem to be there and I remember asking questions here about howaK to properly log an installation problem to try to debug it, and it was made K very clear to me that the DCL subprocess wasn't designed for interactivity.l  N Perhaps you have access to the latest and greatest PRODUCT INSTALL, but if theG majority of people are still at 7.2, it means that you must design youraL poroduct installation to work with that software. This is what VMSINSTALL is5 just a good tool because it is everywhere and stable.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 20:20:49 GMT 3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond)n Subject: Re: Install Directory1 Message-ID: <BwsDa.1962$W_1.209@news.cpqcorp.net>P  * In article <3EDE34BC.9D2E61DA@istop.com>, , JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes:  N >                               ... I remember asking questions here about how> >to properly log an installation problem to try to debug it...  ' Did you get an answer to that question?g5 If not email me and I'll explain how you can do this..@ (Basically, the execute procedures need to be written to turn on@ verify if a logical name is defined, and you need to execute the PRODUCT operation with /TRACE.)r   O >Perhaps you have access to the latest and greatest PRODUCT INSTALL, but if the H >majority of people are still at 7.2, it means that you must design your6 >poroduct installation to work with that software. ...  D The latest PCSI functionality is available in patch kits for systemsF from V6.2 on.  In fact, it is likely -- possible at least -- that the G funtionality planned for V7.3-2 will be released as a patch kit before c V7.3-2 is released!e   -- tJ       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2003 15:19:13 -0500r+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)B8 Subject: Re: Intel 64 bit Pentium seems to be on its way3 Message-ID: <o4evcma9MtB5@eisner.encompasserve.org>w  j In article <pfasdvkteps2ktqh2hpdma8qij3hp3f9c4@4ax.com>, Milton <mbhewitt.SPAMBLOCK@optonline.net> writes:5 > On Tue, 03 Jun 2003 15:37:07 GMT, "Fred Kleinsorge" * > <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> wrote: > K >>The figure appears to me to be complete hogswallow, someones random guess   >>based on a few public sources. >>L >>The IA64 has, and will continue to have *leading* FP performance, and nearN >>leading integer performance in the 64-bit space.  Vendors from HP to IBM are2 >>bringing more and bigger IA64 systems to market. >>L >>Most sober analysis shows IA64 and Power as the leading 64-bit chips goingI >>forward, with a potential for Opteron (there's a whole lotta "ifs" withtJ >>AMD - the chip isn't a desktop chip, it's really a 2-4 way server chip -+ >>with no serious server system vendors).  . >  > How about Cray, Inc?Q > http://www.amd.com/us-en/Corporate/VirtualPressRoom/0,,51_104_543~56268,00.htmla > G > Kinda shoots the shit outta yer argument that Opteron is *only* a 2-4A > way server chipP >  s  H 	No.  That is non-cache coherent, general purpose servers (i.e. the ones, 	most of the world uses) are cache coherent.  ? 	The jury is still out.  But a man that designs servers for IBM > 	and prior to that designed for SGI - John McCalpin says this:  f http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=b334r4%248sg%241%40ausnews.austin.ibm.com&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain   0 From: mccalpin@gmp246.austin.ibm.com (McCalpin)  Newsgroups: comp.arch . Subject: Re: Same cache block optimizations?? , Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 17:55:48 +0000 (UTC)   B Without directories, Opteron systems are not likely to scale very A well past 4 cpus.   The low-dimension interconnect combined with s@ the broadcast snoops will result in both a significant increase B in memory latency (local and remote) as well as a high percentage @ of the HT links' bandwidth being used for snoops and responses.   B Although the Opteron does not directly support directories, there B is no reason that directories could not be added to HT bridges to B filter snoop traffic.  It looks to me like either duplicate cache ? tags or distributed cache-line maps (a la Origin2000) could be   made to work.    -- B9 John D. McCalpin, Ph.D.           mccalpin@austin.ibm.comeF Senior Technical Staff Member     IBM POWER Microprocessor Development-     "I am willing to make mistakes as long asi1      someone else is willing to learn from them."s     ---s  < 	So in theory an 8-CPU box will be out and about.  According; 	to John , it won't scale until/if directories are added.  hD 	The banter in realworldtech.com in the last few months kicked 8-CPUC 	Opteron scaling about.  Seems the concensus is it won't scale, buti> 	again - jury is still out.  By the way, in other threads John= 	mentions having early release Opteron boxes to look at so het2 	- in likelihood - knows what he is talking about.   				Robe   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2003 17:03:53 -0700l( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)8 Subject: Re: Intel 64 bit Pentium seems to be on its way= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0306041603.70e48c27@posting.google.com>s   Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<bbikcv$gng$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...a > Fred Kleinsorge wrote:M > > The figure appears to me to be complete hogswallow, someones random guessa" > > based on a few public sources. > > N > > The IA64 has, and will continue to have *leading* FP performance, and nearP > > leading integer performance in the 64-bit space.  Vendors from HP to IBM are4 > > bringing more and bigger IA64 systems to market. > >  > 7 > What does this have to do with the number of Itaniumsn > being shipped ?i > < > You can claim leading performance in every field, but this6 > hardly matters since the buying public and the ISV's* > seem to have very little interest in it.  ' you better tell that to Dell Andrew ...a  9 http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=03/06/04/6132230g   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 20:10:39 +0200 , From: Albrecht Schlosser <ajs856@tiscali.de>2 Subject: Re: Interpreting image exit status values, Message-ID: <bnclbb.ivu.ln@news.hus-soft.de>   John Laird wrote:r > H > We have just migrated a large distributed system from Vax 6.2 to AlphaL > 7.3-1.  While all the detached server processes are running just fine (andD > we had, during development many years ago, effectively carried outM > considerable testing on our desktop Alphastations hopefully eliminating anyeL > real source code problems), user interface processes are suffering regular > and annoying abrupt exits. >  > ...  > M > What is particularly worrying are the access violations.  If we have a realgJ > problem in our software, we need to find it.  However, we are getting no4 > traceback from these image exits.  Nothing at all.  ? Recently we had such a problem, too. We got no traceback from a @ (detached) server process that does much RMS indexed file I/O. IA simulated an ACCVIO in the normal process startup code, and I gotOC traceback info, so there was nothing wrong with the process's setup_ (SYS$ERROR).  G I found a possible solution in a patch for VMS 7.2-1. It seems that thebH error happened within an RMS operation, and that this was the reason for/ the missing traceback (exec or kernel mode ??).a    - >From dec-axpvms-vms721_rms-v0500--4.README :t  	 <-begin->t2 RMS:  Put or update to an indexed file may ACCVIO.    ...    The process may either:  A      +  Terminate (if SYSGEN parameter BUGCHECKFATAL not enabled)t-         with an access violation (ACCVIO); orc  :      +  Crash the system (if BUGCHECKFATAL enabled) with a         SSRVEXCEPT ACCVIO.    ...  ?  This fix is included in the next release after  OpenVMS  Alphav
  V7.2-1H1. <-end->o    G Though this seems not to be your problem, maybe it can help to find the E problem. This particular bug _should_ be fixed, but you never know...o    H There is an ACCVIO bug in a V7.3-1 patch (dec-axpvms-vms731_f11x-v0100):  	 <-begin->z@ An ACCVIO (UNXSIGNAL) can occur during a header extention if theD LAST_FCB value is zero.  The LAST_FCB value is zero because the lastF header on disk is not yet mapped to an FCB. The fix is check to see if< the LAST_FCB is zero (null) before updating the STVBN field.  )      Images Affected:[SYS$LDR]F11BXQP.EXEn <-end->y   Did you install V7.3-1 patches?a   Hthc Albrecht Schloera   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2003 14:21:30 -0500t- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)h2 Subject: Re: Interpreting image exit status values3 Message-ID: <eNSROBBsxo4b@eisner.encompasserve.org>   f In article <l1trdv8ecbp9ihhj9vkljvc43k86sv5t1c@4ax.com>, John Laird <john@laird-towers.org.uk> writes:N > On 4 Jun 2003 07:54:16 -0500, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote: > h >>In article <r5ordvseef7rg1eot01bgu2vflbq4kbdcs@4ax.com>, John Laird <john@laird-towers.org.uk> writes: >>O >>> What is particularly worrying are the access violations.  If we have a realtL >>> problem in our software, we need to find it.  However, we are getting noK >>> traceback from these image exits.  Nothing at all.  Should I be readingnM >>> something into the high 1 in the exit status of 100000C ?  I am sure that0 >>K >>The cannonical meaning of that is "this status message has been displayed. >>to SYS$OUTPUT".t > N > That's a different interpretation to my understanding.  If I called LIB$STOPM > with such a status, I would expect to see no message, but the global symbol I > $STATUS would still say %X1000000C.  I can't see why accounting records3 > should be special.  < I expect to see a message when I call LIB$STOP, but any time@ DCL displays a code (even to the null device) that bit gets set.  G > <fx: shudders>  Call me old-fashioned, but I'd prefer to start with a L > traceback and only go to process dumps as a last, final, resort.  Maybe...  H But to be really useful process dumps often require the running image toF be linked /TRACEBACK or even better with symbols.  Effective with V7.32 on Alpha, those symbols can be in a separate file.   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2003 15:34:19 -0500i; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)f2 Subject: Re: Interpreting image exit status values3 Message-ID: <msX14KQ0tW1C@eisner.encompasserve.org>?  [ In article <bnclbb.ivu.ln@news.hus-soft.de>, Albrecht Schlosser <ajs856@tiscali.de> writes:i > John Laird wrote:- >> -I >> We have just migrated a large distributed system from Vax 6.2 to Alpha'M >> 7.3-1.  While all the detached server processes are running just fine (and E >> we had, during development many years ago, effectively carried outsN >> considerable testing on our desktop Alphastations hopefully eliminating anyM >> real source code problems), user interface processes are suffering regular- >> and annoying abrupt exits.- >> - >> ... >> -N >> What is particularly worrying are the access violations.  If we have a realK >> problem in our software, we need to find it.  However, we are getting no 5 >> traceback from these image exits.  Nothing at all.w > A > Recently we had such a problem, too. We got no traceback from a B > (detached) server process that does much RMS indexed file I/O. IC > simulated an ACCVIO in the normal process startup code, and I gotsE > traceback info, so there was nothing wrong with the process's setupW > (SYS$ERROR). > I > I found a possible solution in a patch for VMS 7.2-1. It seems that theeJ > error happened within an RMS operation, and that this was the reason for1 > the missing traceback (exec or kernel mode ??)., >   G    Back around VMS 2 or so, if you messed up inside RMS you could get aiH    fatal bugcheck (VMS crashes).  For VMS 3.0 (or was it 4.0?) a lot of L    these were changed to non-fatal bugchecks.  Non-fatal bugchecks cause the'    process to crash, but VMS goes on.  w  C    This is consistent with the description in the ECO.  If you have-H    been seeing this problem, you can find the non-fatal bugchecks loggedB    in the system error log (anal/error or one of those new tools).  K    If you really want to stop it in it's tracks to verify it you can force sJ    VMS to crash by dynmically setting the SYSGEN BUGCHECKFATAL parameter, #    which makes all bugchecks fatal.,   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2003 15:43:28 -0500a- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)i2 Subject: Re: Interpreting image exit status values3 Message-ID: <wOIjp$k6wiua@eisner.encompasserve.org>1  c In article <eNSROBBsxo4b@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:D  H >> <fx: shudders>  Call me old-fashioned, but I'd prefer to start with aM >> traceback and only go to process dumps as a last, final, resort.  Maybe...I > J > But to be really useful process dumps often require the running image to$                           ^^^^^^^^^^$                           ||||||||||$                           tracebacksH > be linked /TRACEBACK or even better with symbols.  Effective with V7.34 > on Alpha, those symbols can be in a separate file. -- WN ==============================================================================I The Boulder Pledge: "Under no circumstances will I ever purchase anythingoJ      offered to me as the result of an unsolicited email message. Nor willI      I forward chain letters, petitions, mass mailings, or virus warningswH      to large numbers of others. This is my contribution to the survival      of the online community."N ==============================================================================   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 23:31:23 +0100i+ From: John Laird <john@laird-towers.org.uk>'2 Subject: Re: Interpreting image exit status values8 Message-ID: <4nssdv0qvkcki138jj9b62k83q51hln6u4@4ax.com>  L On 4 Jun 2003 14:21:30 -0500, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote:  g >In article <l1trdv8ecbp9ihhj9vkljvc43k86sv5t1c@4ax.com>, John Laird <john@laird-towers.org.uk> writes: O >> On 4 Jun 2003 07:54:16 -0500, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote:d >>  i >>>In article <r5ordvseef7rg1eot01bgu2vflbq4kbdcs@4ax.com>, John Laird <john@laird-towers.org.uk> writes:  >>>aP >>>> What is particularly worrying are the access violations.  If we have a realM >>>> problem in our software, we need to find it.  However, we are getting notL >>>> traceback from these image exits.  Nothing at all.  Should I be readingN >>>> something into the high 1 in the exit status of 100000C ?  I am sure that >>>sL >>>The cannonical meaning of that is "this status message has been displayed >>>to SYS$OUTPUT". >> iO >> That's a different interpretation to my understanding.  If I called LIB$STOP N >> with such a status, I would expect to see no message, but the global symbolJ >> $STATUS would still say %X1000000C.  I can't see why accounting records >> should be special.  >u= >I expect to see a message when I call LIB$STOP, but any timeeA >DCL displays a code (even to the null device) that bit gets set.   I Okay.  Bear in mind the saved $status value *and* the recorded image exitV> status in accountng.dat both appear to have the nomsg bit set.  H >> <fx: shudders>  Call me old-fashioned, but I'd prefer to start with aM >> traceback and only go to process dumps as a last, final, resort.  Maybe...o > I >But to be really useful process dumps often require the running image toSG >be linked /TRACEBACK or even better with symbols.  Effective with V7.3o3 >on Alpha, those symbols can be in a separate file.!  L The image is linked /traceback.  As I have mentioned in another response, we, now have at least one "stack dump" to go on.     	John!   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 23:33:56 +01001+ From: John Laird <john@laird-towers.org.uk>n2 Subject: Re: Interpreting image exit status values8 Message-ID: <5qssdvguskhs4fd7lokf22s2qaehil5giq@4ax.com>  J On Wed, 04 Jun 2003 20:10:39 +0200, Albrecht Schlosser <ajs856@tiscali.de> wrote:    >Did you install V7.3-1 patches?  ? Good question ;-)  I know we have one of the LAN ECOs to fix aneH auto-negotiation issue with the Ethernet card, but I am not sure we have applied any others.s  J Essentially, our user interface, while large, is very simple.  SMG is usedG for all screen i/o, it has a couple of indexed files open readonly, and # writes nowhere except the terminal.      	John    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2003 22:20 CDT' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) 2 Subject: Re: Interpreting image exit status values, Message-ID: <4JUN200322202544@gerg.tamu.edu>  / John Laird <john@laird-towers.org.uk> writes... M }On 4 Jun 2003 07:54:16 -0500, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote:  } h }>In article <r5ordvseef7rg1eot01bgu2vflbq4kbdcs@4ax.com>, John Laird <john@laird-towers.org.uk> writes: }>O }>> What is particularly worrying are the access violations.  If we have a realpL }>> problem in our software, we need to find it.  However, we are getting noK }>> traceback from these image exits.  Nothing at all.  Should I be reading M }>> something into the high 1 in the exit status of 100000C ?  I am sure thatE }>K }>The cannonical meaning of that is "this status message has been displayedV }>to SYS$OUTPUT".  } M }That's a different interpretation to my understanding.  If I called LIB$STOPEL }with such a status, I would expect to see no message, but the global symbolH }$STATUS would still say %X1000000C.  I can't see why accounting recordsH }should be special.  It's my experience that library routines and systemF }services either signal genuine conditions or return genuine conditionI }values, not partially masked equivalents.  And I'm sure none of our codeAG }would do this either, which leaves me most puzzled, and tending to the*K }theory that in fact something has gone wrong telling me something else hasAE }gone wrong, if you see what I mean.  There are no 3rd-party software*M }components in our user interface, and the only library we use extensively ist }SMG.L }	John  D In fact, it would be the opposite of the normal meaning of that bit.  I That bit is normally the sts$v_inhib_msg bit, which means "message shouldlG not be printed". If this bit is set the normal mechanisms for producingsL error messages will not produce any output, shich is a lot like the opposite% of saying that it has been displayed.r   $ exit %x1000000Cd $ exit %x0000000Ca; %SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation, reason mask=00, virtual  address=000000000000& 000C, PC=000000007AFE6950, PS=00000000  F With the bit set, it displays nothing. With it not set it displays the error message.  = Is the meaning of this bit really completely different in thec accounting records?o   --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 20:36:40 -0500n1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>n/ Subject: Re: IO - VAXes, Alphas, XFC and V7.3-1h' Message-ID: <3EDE9EA8.10B02101@fsi.net>t   Rob Young wrote: > e > In article <urlrdvge91o7jmmq12vhi6j5u27k4vke7f@4ax.com>, Mark Hemker <hemker@insightbb.com> writes: H > > You can download it from the VMS website.  Just go to "What's new onH > > our site" and there is a link in the May 2003 section to version 3.2E > > of T4.  That is the most current version.  I have been using thisDJ > > version for about a week now without any problems.  I used some of theH > > previous versions to collect data.  I haven't had a chance to do anyF > > analysis of the data but a quick glance at the generated CSV filesI > > looks good.  I have an intern who is going to create some reports forc > > me later this summer.$ > >  > J >         Thanks.  This looks like the ticket, it even has an XFC monitor.  H I just pulled the kit down and hacked it apart a bit. LOTS of neat stuff	 in there!   B If you're at all nervous about T4, understand that it uses nothingA exotic. MONITOR is the data collector for the usual system stuff. @ However, there is a NET_MON utility that gathers data on network inerfaces, if you enable that.  E So, you can use the T4 utilities to make CSV files from your existing!- MONITOR data collection process. That's neat!-   -- - David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/g   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2003 16:43:23 -07002( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)H Subject: Linux breaches at an all-time high ... Windoze security better?= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0306041543.2d29693b@posting.google.com>a  . well Andrew, unix/linux security is worse than( windoze ... that's what it says here ...  ( http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=9845   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2003 19:11:34 -0700f# From: dooleys@snowy.net.au (dooley)eP Subject: Re: OT: TELNET disconnects - was: Interpreting image exit status values= Message-ID: <1ca82fc6.0306041811.64e7dc3d@posting.google.com>b  j brad@.gateway.2wire.net (Bradford J. Hamilton) wrote in message news:<A4qDa.830527$OV.786494@rwcrnsc54>...h > In article <r5ordvseef7rg1eot01bgu2vflbq4kbdcs@4ax.com>, John Laird <john@laird-towers.org.uk> writes:I > >We have just migrated a large distributed system from Vax 6.2 to AlphaaM > >7.3-1.  While all the detached server processes are running just fine (ando	 >  <snip>eG > >  I plan to tackle the forced-exit problems by investigating whether G > >TCP/IP or Telnet can be made a little more resilient to the presumediE > >connection interruptions, perhaps enabling VTA terminals to permitbA > >reconnects if we cannot pin down the problem at a lower level.h > <snip> > I > While I can't say for sure this is relevant, here was my situation at ad > previous employer. > P > Asked application developers to test access to app in a cluster situation.  WeQ > would knock out a node from the cluster by disbaling TELNET, then ask deveopersa, > to access the app using the cluster alias. > P > No developer could access using a terminal emulation package called RUMBA (notO > my choice - company-dictated).  We ran the same "tests" using WRQ Reflection,-J > PuTTy, TeraTerm, and Kermit.  Of all the emulation packages tested, onlyK > Reflection and Kermit made solid connections each time, using the cluster-K > alias.  All other packages failed outright, or were inconsistent at best.o > O > I left the company before a "root cause" could be discovered, but I left withkL > the impression that Reflection and Kermit were better choices for terminalM > emulation (and Kermit was better, simply because it contined an SSH client;t > Reflection didn't).v > ( While kermit and putty are both good... @ Reflection included ssh support as a security patch to version 8 and is included in version 9, they are now up to version 10 which includes. SSL and TLS encryption, and a Kerberos Client., I think reflection is a good illustration of "you get what you pay for" v) ie. a solid product and excellent support " How come you didn't check this one. http://www.uselesscreations.com/UselessTelnet/ Phil   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 14:15:59 -0400a* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>" Subject: Re: Portents of VMS death) Message-ID: <3EDE375C.C56B73F4@istop.com>s   Dave wrote:  > H > After reading this, and trying to be an objective VMS advocate, I sentF > it to Mark Gorham for comment.  His reply was there are >200 schools2 > signed up for the CLSG/VMS free license program.  > 200 schools isn't a big number when you are talking worldwide.  L As far as writing to Gorham, I am not sure this is effective. The guy may beM very well intentioned and may want VMS marketing et all, but if his superiorsrM are the ones blocking this, then writing to gorham won't help Gorham one bit.iM One needs to get the folks higher up to change their mind about VMS and allow N VMS to flourish. But this is a very hard job as I think that from Stallard andL higher, they are truly convinced that VMS is a liability to be gotten rid of in a politically correct way.k   ------------------------------   Date: 4 JUN 2003 16:19:31 GMTa4 From: karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher)" Subject: Re: Portents of VMS death5 Message-ID: <4JUN03.16193164@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>c  3 In a previous article, k9jdk@arrl.net (Dave) wrote:rH ->After reading this, and trying to be an objective VMS advocate, I sentF ->it to Mark Gorham for comment.  His reply was there are >200 schools2 ->signed up for the CLSG/VMS free license program.  E Sure. Yet I've had the 7.3-1 media (on loan from the CSLG/ESL program-H here) since October and no one has asked for it back. That tells me that< no one has upgraded VMS on this campus since October but me.   --G -- Carl Karcher, Waisman Computing Services, Waisman Center, UW-Madison 5 --              karcher.nomorespam@waisman.wisc.edu  b   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 20:00:55 GMTc& From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net>" Subject: Re: Portents of VMS death8 Message-ID: <9sjsdv84e28veh9nb8og316slh43kldv95@4ax.com>  H On Tue, 03 Jun 2003 21:34:41 -0400, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote:  
 >jlsue wrote:CC >> And it's not that is "isn't what VMS is for", it's that it is an"N >> unsupported configuration (potentially).  I still say that putting Dev/testL >> in a cluster (security domain) with production would get you hit big-timeE >> with the auditors I've known.  Especially in the financial sector.u >hJ >If you tell the bank "here is the scoop. You want disaster tolerance, youM >don't want to buy addictional vaxes because the bank is against vms, and you K >need to keep the test and production environments. Here is how it *can* be M >done, with the following caveats (list of caveats). Banks agrees anmd things 
 >run fine. >  >[snip... etc.]c  G I think I understand a little better now... I should have realized thathI you'd make ample sure the environment was safeguarded.  I know you didn'th5 owe us any of  this explanation, but I appreciate it.   K I realize that in real life people have to make trade-offs, heck knows I'ved had to implement my share.  H It sounds like you've done whatever you could to protect the  production6 while providing good recovery in the event of failure.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 20:08:38 GMTp& From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net>" Subject: Re: Portents of VMS death8 Message-ID: <u4ksdvojlbgvqae0c43gto90uv21irf2np@4ax.com>  F On 3 Jun 2003 22:02:31 -0700, mistdragon@zdnetonebox.com (mist dragon) wrote:   >[Clip]UC >> At one time, one of my responsibilities was a 3-node cluster ...y >[Clip]  >sD >So only one old fashioned system with old software. This gives me a  >perspective of your opinions...  J Not really.  This is only one instance of my VMScluster experience.  ThereK have been many, many others, including multiple different clusters of 10-15sJ nodes each.  I was able to implement a full VMS upgrade around the cluster> without the users seeing any noticable outage impact for theirF applications.  One of those clusters was used for serious mathematicalJ calculations for electron spins and such (chemistry analysis), statistics,I e-mail, word processing (prior to MS Word), etc. - about 250 applicationsa in all.      > M >> Absolutely incorrect.  Tandem can not provide the business continuity thatl >> VMScluster provides.    > G >And to where is this 'fact' based on ? Have you ever used NSK ? Do you.D >know the ups and downs of it by experience in order to state that ?" >(No, I dont work for NSK either). >   J I don't believe this is a big secret.  Tandem can not provide the businessB continuity that you can get from multi-site implementations (a.la.G VMSclusters).  If you have some info that counters that, I'd be glad to D hear it.  I have not had any chance to learn that much about the NSKG environment, but my limited experience was that the fault-tolerance wasM  limited to the system enclosure.   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2003 15:32:00 -0500F+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)u" Subject: Re: Portents of VMS death3 Message-ID: <DYbvLFuXgJPc@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  a In article <u4ksdvojlbgvqae0c43gto90uv21irf2np@4ax.com>, jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net> writes:c   > L > I don't believe this is a big secret.  Tandem can not provide the businessD > continuity that you can get from multi-site implementations (a.la.I > VMSclusters).  If you have some info that counters that, I'd be glad to  > hear it.    R http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=366FED3A.3682424E%40cs.wisc.edu&output=gplain  " From: Andy Glew <glew@cs.wisc.edu>! Subject: Re: Reliability and SMPsi Date: 1998/12/10( To: Rob Young <young_r@eisner.decus.org>! Organization: U Wisc CS (& Intel)T Newsgroups: comp.archt    D >         You can have nodes up to 500 miles apart in a VMS Cluster.  E And the Bank of Nova Scotia used to have its Tandem nodes in Halifax,l1 Montreal, Norway, and somewhere in the Caribbean.    ---y   				Rob   oK "Even if the biblical assertion is incorrect that where there is no vision, H  the people perish, it is difficult to think what could be the engine orJ  stimulus for social behavior in a nihilistic system committed only to theI  certainty of the passage of time, without any energetic relationship to n/  another principle or purpose."  --Lionel Tigerc   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 20:10:24 GMTk& From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net>" Subject: Re: Portents of VMS death8 Message-ID: <cfksdv4rusg501m3d4lt6vilqfi64gmvvf@4ax.com>  F On 3 Jun 2003 21:41:55 -0700, mistdragon@zdnetonebox.com (mist dragon) wrote:  L >> I think I've stated my question before.  IIRC, the test used a much olderM >> version of VMS and TCP/IP, and compared it to a recent version of UNIX and- >> TCP/IP.   >AG >And where did I say that ? If you read my posts, everyone of them saysPG >it was the newest TCP/IP on both platforms and even after it was found D >VMS TCP/IP could not take it, it was knifed to create a new version >that no customer had.; >It was I think JF Mezei who said it was old TCP/IP, not I., > N >> I guess the real conclusion from the test, as described, is that the older,N >> possibly out-of-date, operating platform can't handle the load.  But that's >> not saying much.- >R) >Did you read the previous post at all ?   >p  F Yes. I did.  In one of them you mentioned how some people are stuck onK older platforms.  I may have inferred, possibly incorrectly, that you meant ) this was part of the system in your test.o  F I also thought you'd mentioned that the VMS platform was not upgraded.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 21:22:08 GMTa& From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net>" Subject: Re: Portents of VMS death8 Message-ID: <9jksdv4elq6k30pk8rogmi62f1j73i9jnt@4ax.com>  H On Tue, 03 Jun 2003 21:41:56 -0400, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote:  
 >jlsue wrote:iN >> Wrong again.  It was a test of a very old version of vms against a new UNIX
 >> offering. 0 >eM >Lets say you have an old VAX at 5.5-2 and you are told it is time to buy newHF >machines because this "old museum piece" just doesn't cut it anymore. >t >[...] >a >What do you do ?  >s  C There are options, just like when going with the UNIX vendor... forA example,  G 1. Contact other vendors who can accommodate the newer VMS test system.sI 2. Contact HP to find out what kind of testing platform may be available.u   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 17:43:10 -0400c* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>" Subject: Re: Portents of VMS death) Message-ID: <3EDE67E9.D5778358@istop.com>m   Rob Young wrote:$ > From: Andy Glew <glew@cs.wisc.edu>G > And the Bank of Nova Scotia used to have its Tandem nodes in Halifax,s3 > Montreal, Norway, and somewhere in the Caribbean.l    L As of 1992, Tandem was still not able to "cluster" across buildings like VMSK could. They could do the equivalent of decnet, with transaction replicationoC which would require some "rebuild" to get the backup nodes back up.D  L Also, if you are talking about POS/ATM controllers (used in banks), yes, youG could have Tandems in various cities collecting transactions from localpN "terminals" and doing preliminary validation and then using a link to send theJ transaction to the IBM mainframe in the toronto head office. This is not a< question of "clustering" but rather distributed processing.   K In banks, Tandems are used as glorified communications controllers/buffers. L They handle the transaction and then forward it to the appropriate mainframeL for processing (for instance, when using Bank A card at Bank B machines, theG Tandem is what routes the transaction over). And the Tandem will bufferII transactions for its own bank when that bank's mainframe is down (blindlymK authorized up to a certain amount, no matter what you actually have in yourhM account), and once the mainframe is back up, will transfer those transactions-M to the mainframe for processing. (hint: if you do a transaction at an ATM andnJ your bank balance is not available, it means that the ATM is "offline" andB transcation won't actually execute until the mainframe is back up)  J With tandem, you have a backup process running on a different CPU with theL application written to keep the backup process in sync so that it can pickupJ if the primary one fails. This means memory interface between 2 CPUs, dualM disk access etc etc.  Doing this across buildings would require shared memory K access via fibre. VMS can't do that yet, in a galaxy, shared memory betweeni, VMS instances has to be in the same box too.  N Now, Tandem may have solved the shared memory issue since I last had a serious9 look at it. (which would give it quite an edge over VMS).r   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 18:55:24 -0400' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>r" Subject: RE: Portents of VMS deathR Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB0588F8@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   JF -  < NSK based systems use NonStop RDF (remote data facility i.e.E replication) for disaster tolerance. NSK is based on a shared nothinghC architecture which means one master writer and then replicate those  updates to other facilities.=20c  C NSK does not support active-active clusters where different systems H directly update the same data at the same time. There are advantages and# disadvantages with both approaches.r  
 Reference:* http://h71033.www7.hp.com/page/RDF_SW.html   Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultante Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.! Consulting & Integration Services< Voice: 613-592-4660a Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom-     (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s)3 OpenVMS DCL - the original .COMm       > -----Original Message-----6 > From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com]=20 > Sent: June 4, 2003 5:43 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Come$ > Subject: Re: Portents of VMS death >=20 >=20 > Rob Young wrote:& > > From: Andy Glew <glew@cs.wisc.edu>@ > > And the Bank of Nova Scotia used to have its Tandem nodes=20
 > in Halifax,r5 > > Montreal, Norway, and somewhere in the Caribbean.w >=20 >=20> > As of 1992, Tandem was still not able to "cluster" across=20 > buildings like VMS8 > could. They could do the equivalent of decnet, with=20 > transaction replication4E > which would require some "rebuild" to get the backup nodes back up.  >=20@ > Also, if you are talking about POS/ATM controllers (used in=20 > banks), yes, youA > could have Tandems in various cities collecting transactions=20p > from localB > "terminals" and doing preliminary validation and then using a=20 > link to send theA > transaction to the IBM mainframe in the toronto head office.=20. > This is not as@ > question of "clustering" but rather distributed processing.=20 >=20; > In banks, Tandems are used as glorified communications=20o > controllers/buffers.; > They handle the transaction and then forward it to the=20  > appropriate mainframe.A > for processing (for instance, when using Bank A card at Bank=20m > B machines, thei@ > Tandem is what routes the transaction over). And the Tandem=20
 > will bufferO@ > transactions for its own bank when that bank's mainframe is=20 > down (blindly : > authorized up to a certain amount, no matter what you=20 > actually have in youri? > account), and once the mainframe is back up, will transfer=20p > those transactions8 > to the mainframe for processing. (hint: if you do a=20 > transaction at an ATM and A > your bank balance is not available, it means that the ATM is=20  > "offline" anddD > transcation won't actually execute until the mainframe is back up) >=20B > With tandem, you have a backup process running on a different=20 > CPU with the> > application written to keep the backup process in sync so=20 > that it can pickupB > if the primary one fails. This means memory interface between=20 > 2 CPUs, dual< > disk access etc etc.  Doing this across buildings would=20 > require shared memorysA > access via fibre. VMS can't do that yet, in a galaxy, shared=20t > memory between. > VMS instances has to be in the same box too. >=20@ > Now, Tandem may have solved the shared memory issue since I=20 > last had a serious; > look at it. (which would give it quite an edge over VMS).l >=20   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2003 15:58:31 -0700t From: k9jdk@arrl.net (Dave) " Subject: Re: Portents of VMS death= Message-ID: <bafb6477.0306041458.3cf3b1e5@posting.google.com>   D OK, I hear you and the others.  Now did you all do the next step andB write to the powers that be at hp?  If not, you're half done.  How about doing the other half?e  , Discuss it here? Sure.  Fix it here? No way.    q karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher) wrote in message news:<4JUN03.16193164@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>... 5 > In a previous article, k9jdk@arrl.net (Dave) wrote:tJ > ->After reading this, and trying to be an objective VMS advocate, I sentH > ->it to Mark Gorham for comment.  His reply was there are >200 schools4 > ->signed up for the CLSG/VMS free license program. > G > Sure. Yet I've had the 7.3-1 media (on loan from the CSLG/ESL programrJ > here) since October and no one has asked for it back. That tells me that> > no one has upgraded VMS on this campus since October but me.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 01:50:35 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>v" Subject: Re: Portents of VMS deathI Message-ID: <LlxDa.128868$cK1.13886@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>o   Sorry for top posting...  8 Every time I reply to a post of Kerry's, it never quotes properly.......l  : Excerpted from http://h71033.www7.hp.com/object/rdfpd.html  7 "HP NonStop servers are at the top of the single-system.? high-availability pyramid. But there are times when you want to C geographically distribute your application processing to protect ith) from a site failure or regional disaster.t  F For more than a decade, major companies relying on the world's leading@ fault-tolerant computing platform, the NonStop server, have also? turned to HP NonStop Remote Database Facility (RDF) software toeF replicate critical data and enable uninterrupted service. With NonStop> RDF software, one can ignore the concept of primary and backupD systems, but think in terms of primary and backup databases. You canE implement a wide variety of configurations, including multiple backupiC databases for each primary database or a single backup for multiplekD primary databases. And every source and target system can be running live transactions.  B Using the audit log generated by HP NonStop Transaction ManagementA Facility (NonStop TMF) software, changes to primary databases are D instantaneously replicated to backup databases on one or more targetD systems, no matter how many transactions per second your applicationE generates. If a primary database becomes inaccessible for any reason,eF processing can continue using the backup database with minimal service disruption or data loss.  E NonStop RDF software only replicates databases designated as criticalNE by the customer. As transactions are applied to the primary database,nD changes are replicated to the backup database, which can be used forF billing, decision support, reporting, or other activities. NonStop RDF= software does not place limits on the type or distance of the  communications link.  C Application processes that cannot tolerate any data loss whatsoevertD can request that transactions be lockstepped between the primary andF backup databases. A simple system call ensures that the process cannot> continue until the changed data is safely stored on the target; system.(2PC in other words??) The application decides whicha< transactions should or should not be lockstepped for maximum flexibility.  9 Optimized throughput for instantaneous database mirroringBC NonStop RDF software minimizes the effects of regional disasters byiA efficiently sending audit trail information to one or more target-F systems. Active throughput is approximately 3 megabytes per second per@ audit trail, and if the two systems somehow become disconnected,C NonStop RDF can catch up at more than double that rate. ReplicationeB scales linearly as audit trails are added, up to a total of 16. AsB soon as the changes are received by a target system, they are safe from a source system failure. "L   .....a  D "There is no need to be offline after a takeover while a transactionE manager or database recovery tool scans logs searching for incompletetC transactions. NonStop RDF takeover processing takes only seconds to D complete. For the shortest possible takeover time, you can code your> applications to start up, then wait until NonStop RDF softwareA completes the takeover before beginning active work on the backupo; database (see figure 3). If the target system is processing F transactions, such as in a split-workload arrangement, that processingF can continue without interruption. In fact, users on the target systemC don't even know that the software is hard at work ensuring that the E backup database is transactionally consistent after a takeover. UserswA who were on the source system can be up and running on the targeteC system within seconds. You can even perform the initial load of theo; backup database while the primary database remains online."l    1 All in all, I think I'd rather use a VMS cluster.r       ----------------------    2 "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> wrote in messageF news:FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB0588F8@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp. net... JF -  < NSK based systems use NonStop RDF (remote data facility i.e.E replication) for disaster tolerance. NSK is based on a shared nothing C architecture which means one master writer and then replicate thosep updates to other facilities.  C NSK does not support active-active clusters where different systemstD directly update the same data at the same time. There are advantages ande# disadvantages with both approaches..  
 Reference:* http://h71033.www7.hp.com/page/RDF_SW.html       ------------------       > -----Original Message-----3 > From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com]r > Sent: June 4, 2003 5:43 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comy$ > Subject: Re: Portents of VMS death >n >e > Rob Young wrote:& > > From: Andy Glew <glew@cs.wisc.edu>= > > And the Bank of Nova Scotia used to have its Tandem nodese
 > in Halifax, 5 > > Montreal, Norway, and somewhere in the Caribbean.  >- >>; > As of 1992, Tandem was still not able to "cluster" across  > buildings like VMS5 > could. They could do the equivalent of decnet, witha > transaction replicationkE > which would require some "rebuild" to get the backup nodes back up.a >o= > Also, if you are talking about POS/ATM controllers (used inc > banks), yes, you> > could have Tandems in various cities collecting transactions > from local? > "terminals" and doing preliminary validation and then using a  > link to send the> > transaction to the IBM mainframe in the toronto head office. > This is not as= > question of "clustering" but rather distributed processing.h >t8 > In banks, Tandems are used as glorified communications > controllers/buffers.8 > They handle the transaction and then forward it to the > appropriate mainframeb> > for processing (for instance, when using Bank A card at Bank > B machines, thee= > Tandem is what routes the transaction over). And the Tandemo
 > will bufferb= > transactions for its own bank when that bank's mainframe isn > down (blindlyy7 > authorized up to a certain amount, no matter what youo > actually have in your < > account), and once the mainframe is back up, will transfer > those transactions5 > to the mainframe for processing. (hint: if you do af > transaction at an ATM andn> > your bank balance is not available, it means that the ATM is > "offline" andsD > transcation won't actually execute until the mainframe is back up) >0? > With tandem, you have a backup process running on a different: > CPU with the; > application written to keep the backup process in sync som > that it can pickup? > if the primary one fails. This means memory interface between. > 2 CPUs, dual9 > disk access etc etc.  Doing this across buildings would  > require shared memoryi> > access via fibre. VMS can't do that yet, in a galaxy, shared > memory between. > VMS instances has to be in the same box too. >e= > Now, Tandem may have solved the shared memory issue since I^ > last had a serious; > look at it. (which would give it quite an edge over VMS).  >l   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 03:17:11 GMTA+ From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (leslie)." Subject: Re: Portents of VMS death9 Message-ID: <XCyDa.3627$lT4.319381@twister.austin.rr.com>l  " John Smith (a@nonymous.com) wrote: : Sorry for top posting... : : : Every time I reply to a post of Kerry's, it never quotes : properly.......I :  Here's why:t  8   X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.3018.1300   There's a free solution:  6      http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/      OE-QuoteFix  F      http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/description.html      Description       "Description  G      OE-QuoteFix will extend the functionality of MS Outlook Express inrE      numerous ways! Its main purpose is to modify message composition F      windows on-the-fly to allow for correct quoting and to change theH      appearance of your plain-text replies and forwards in general: moveC      your signature, use compressed indentation, have RFC compliant.      signatures, etc.   A      But the second feature is equally practical: OE-QuoteFix cano?      instantly color quoted passages (according to the level of.E      indentation), fix bad quoting and generally beautify messages ass&      you view them in Outlook Express.        [snip]e        No Worriesp  D      Lastly, OE-QuoteFix will not modify any system files or OutlookF      Express files... And the changes it makes to your messages can beA      undone by choosing Edit->Undo in Outlook Express, should youCE      realize that they weren't what you wanted. And if you don't likeaF      OE-QuoteFix at all, you can always uninstall it, but I'm sure you      won't want to... ;)"y      2 --Jerry Leslie   (my opinions are strictly my own)9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for emaill   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2003 22:31:27 -0700r- From: pdafniotis@yahoo.com (Petros Dafniotis)oC Subject: Re: Radeon 7500 and XP-1000 and OpenGL 1.2: is it working?o= Message-ID: <e54adf36.0306042131.4efb0c24@posting.google.com>   X Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> wrote in message news:<bbla5t$dn0$1@news1.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>... > Petros Dafniotis wrote:i > > As subject says:I > > I have already a XP-1000 with PowerStorm 350. Problem is that it doesaB > > only OpenGL 1.1 and Compaq/HP will not do anything more on it. > > F > > Now I see that support for Radeon 7500 will include OpenGL 1.2; is > > this working on a XP-1000? > > H > > Where do I get this card? Is this the same as a All-In-One Wonder VE> > > Radeon 7500 PCI card that is still available for some PCs? >  > No, absolutely not ! > S > All-In-Wonder cards have a build-in TV tuner etc. I haven't heard anything about -B >   TV software on VMS ! (would be nice, using a a ES47 as a VCR).( > Furthermore the VE versions are slower  D Yes I know about the VE versions and also about the TV tuner which ID was not planning to use but these are the cards that readily show on4 US based web sites that still carry the Radeon 7500.   > R > I don't know where you live, but in the US you can order the ATI Radeon 7500 in - > PCI and AGP version for something like $70.t > M > In Europe things are a bit more complicated, because ATI left the European i< > market for other manufacturers that use the ATI chip sets. > R > I know of one company in Europe that sells a 7500 PCI version, this is the link  > to their homepage: >  > http://www.club-3d.nl/  E I am in Europe (Switzerland). Your link (THANK YOU!) suggests a placec( in Zurich which I am going to try today.   > R > It is not made by ATI, but seems to be a 100% clone. Works fine in my DS10, and A > is a LOT cheaper then a similar card from HP (sorry Fred......)a >  > > 
 Thank you, Petros ---t Petros Dafniotis, PhD0 pdafniotis@yahoo.com   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2003 13:58:34 -0700a& From: dorrt@sutterhealth.org (tr dorr)! Subject: SDLT vs LTO tape libraryb= Message-ID: <59b7bbb8.0306041258.303fb2d4@posting.google.com>n  D We've purchased two SDLT tape drives(Hp part no CQP 1-2 DRV DLT TAPE> LIBRARY or MSL 5026 S2) in Nov 2002 and have had problems with8 frimware and sharing between VMS and NT. Because of tapeA initialization and sharing, we run firmware version v35. The most"C recent firmware just release today is v52. We'ev had to replace the + tape drives at least three(3)times as well.dF Because of the issues with SDLT, it's been suggested to switch to LTO.E I know nothing about LTO and want some honest (non-sales) feedback on D LTO and how it works with VMS. Also, the tape library will be sharedA with NT and I would like to know how LTO works in a VMS/NT sharedt environment. Thanks,a Tom.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 20:50:20 -0500s1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>t% Subject: Re: SDLT vs LTO tape librarym' Message-ID: <3EDEA1DC.2D580A50@fsi.net>    tr dorr wrote: > F > We've purchased two SDLT tape drives(Hp part no CQP 1-2 DRV DLT TAPE@ > LIBRARY or MSL 5026 S2) in Nov 2002 and have had problems with: > frimware and sharing between VMS and NT. Because of tapeC > initialization and sharing, we run firmware version v35. The mostlE > recent firmware just release today is v52. We'ev had to replace thec- > tape drives at least three(3)times as well.tH > Because of the issues with SDLT, it's been suggested to switch to LTO.G > I know nothing about LTO and want some honest (non-sales) feedback onaF > LTO and how it works with VMS. Also, the tape library will be sharedC > with NT and I would like to know how LTO works in a VMS/NT sharedt > environment.  G As we - and StorageTek - recently learned, VMS will not provide supportfC for Generation-1 LTO due to blocksize limitation issues and others.-H Gen-2 LTO is not here yet, neither is VMS support for it. So, SDLT is it for now.  F That said, we are likewise having SDLT issues. The drives are Quantum,E not HP-badged. Also, they under contract with StorageTek thru the VARaH and not with HP. So, essentially, we have no support for our SDLT drives? on VMS since neither StorageTek nor the VAR has OpenVMS supportiG resources. Messages like "Extended Sense Data received" mean nothing toM non-VMS folks, apparently.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemsi http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/t   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 22:12:45 -0400y1 From: Ed Wensell III <ewensell3@yahoo.commercial>e% Subject: Re: SDLT vs LTO tape libraryI0 Message-ID: <3EDEA71D.2BA5A672@yahoo.commercial>   tr dorr wrote: >tH > Because of the issues with SDLT, it's been suggested to switch to LTO.G > I know nothing about LTO and want some honest (non-sales) feedback ontF > LTO and how it works with VMS. Also, the tape library will be sharedC > with NT and I would like to know how LTO works in a VMS/NT sharedl > environment.	 > Thanks,s > Tom   F I've been using LTO1 since October 2002 in a mixed non-VMS environmentC (sorry, and I dare not speak the name here). I have two units, bothVG rebadged HP SureStore jukeboxes. One is a 2-drive/20-tape and the other-D is a 4-drive/40-tape unit. We are getting ready to install a 4-drive1 (capable of 6) 100to80-tape unit at another site./  F So far I have had two drive failures, both out of the 4-drive jukebox.G Out of a batch of 80 tapes I only have one bad. This seems to be on par:F with the failure rates I used to see with DLTs (TZ87/TZ89) at a former: employer (VMS environment, hence why I still linger here).  H AFAICT, the only thing LTO lacks is the nice removeable label cards likeB DLTs. Since I've switched to barcodes only, this is not an issue.   H This may all be moot... Assuming David's post is correct and LTO1 on VMS is simply not there. u   -- RF Ed Wensell III - E-mail address is valid if you know the right bits to drop.-  > There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home.@ - Ken Olsen, President & founder of Digital Equipment Corp, 1977   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 15:35:11 -0400q# From: sol gongola <sol@adldata.com>r, Subject: smtp OPERATOR.LOG message reduction+ Message-ID: <3EDE49EF.A1168A47@adldata.com>t  * UCX Version V5.1 - ECO 3 on OpenVMS V7.2-1  5 Is there a way to reduce/eliminate the number of smtp % messages being sent to OPERATOR.LOG. b  5 We've gotten about 10000 of these in the last 3 days:e3     INTERnet ACP SMTP Accept Request from Host: ...n4 and an additional 7000 messages relating to messages# eliminated by spam/RBL fiiltering. t  ? I looked at the SMTP logicals and they only relate to smtp log a> files, not OPERATOR.LOG and they involve increasing the amount of logging being done.  	 thank youl sol gongolao adl data systems inc dobbs ferry, ny 10522t   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 15:31:55 -0400e# From: sol gongola <sol@adldata.com> , Subject: smtp OPERATOR.LOG message reduction+ Message-ID: <3EDE492B.3608602B@adldata.com>e  * UCX Version V5.1 - ECO 3 on OpenVMS V7.2-1  5 Is there a way to reduce/eliminate the number of smtp % messages being sent to OPERATOR.LOG. e  5 We've gotten about 10000 of these in the last 3 days: 3     INTERnet ACP SMTP Accept Request from Host: ... 4 and an additional 7000 messages relating to messages# eliminated by spam/RBL fiiltering. t  ? I looked at the SMTP logicals and they only relate to smtp log t> files, not OPERATOR.LOG and they involve increasing the amount of logging being done.  	 thank your sol gongolar adl data systems inc dobbs ferry, ny 10522    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 15:48:31 -0400c* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>0 Subject: Re: smtp OPERATOR.LOG message reduction) Message-ID: <3EDE4D05.4B7E3F71@istop.com>S   sol gongola wrote:7 > Is there a way to reduce/eliminate the number of smtps& > messages being sent to OPERATOR.LOG.  . Am not 100% sure of this, but you may wish to:   TCPIP> HELP SET SERV/LOG	 and then:w  ( TCPIP> SET [CONF] SERV SMTP/LOG=NOACCEPT   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 17:39:38 -0400a# From: sol gongola <sol@adldata.com>o0 Subject: Re: smtp OPERATOR.LOG message reduction+ Message-ID: <3EDE671A.53C5716A@adldata.com>w  ' TCPIP> SET CONF SERV SMTP/LOG=NOACCEPT g$     changes the name of the log file  ! TCPIP> SET SERV SMTP/LOG=NOACCEPT 6     works but it is applied only after restarting smtp  	 thank youe sole   JF Mezei wrote:  >  > sol gongola wrote:9 > > Is there a way to reduce/eliminate the number of smtpr( > > messages being sent to OPERATOR.LOG. > 0 > Am not 100% sure of this, but you may wish to: >  > TCPIP> HELP SET SERV/LOG > and then:  > * > TCPIP> SET [CONF] SERV SMTP/LOG=NOACCEPT   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 06:42:07 +0200r From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>/ Subject: Re: Speed of IDE controllers in DS10 ?n$ Message-ID: <3EDECA1F.70805@home.nl>  / You were right Hoff, it is 16 MHz or 33 MB/sec.gO Today I received two new DS10 systems, and a accompanying paper stated this 16  O MHz. That means that it is a hardware related matter, or could it be a (fixed) eO firmware setting ? It would be nice if we could set it to 33 MHz or 66 MB/sec, aN since present day IDE disks can read with more then 33 MB/sec with sequential D reads, meaning that the present IDE setup could slow down the DS10 !       Hoff Hoffman wrote: U > In article <b9fhlo$j8f$1@news1.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>, Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> writes:.B > :Can anyone tell me the speed of the IDE controllers in a DS10 ?> > :It will not be 100MByte/sec, but is it 33 or 66 MByte/sec ? > I >   IIRC, The AlphaServer DS10 series ATA bus (IDE) is a 16MHz DMA mode 2 K >   interface, which makes it ATA33 -- I don't have my ATA specs to confirm L >   this translation, however.  I think the ATA part used in the AlphaServerN >   DS10 itself might be capable of ATA66 operations, but I don't know if the I >   motherboard interface or if the OpenVMS DQDRIVER has that capability.e > P >  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------L >       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.comP >  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------G >         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.comi >    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 00:29:31 GMTs# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>hY Subject: Re: Would HP even consider offering customers VMS under Scenarios A, B, or C? NaoJ Message-ID: <L9wDa.352508$w7k.286217@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  5 "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message*/ news:bblaor$aju87$2@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de...  > In article? <71pDa.349596$w7k.110575@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,h' > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes: 7 > > http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,4149,1115156,00.aspi > >n > > Killing Linux  > >w > > June 2, 2003 > > By  John C. Dvorak > >b >ID > I stopped readin his drivel back during his Dec Professional days.E > He obviosly hasn't gotten better since he, too, started singing thee* > praises of the PC.  As clueless as ever.    F I was party to a civil court action about 2 years ago wherein a number> of very large banks and exchange members went up against otherD exchange members who were generally very small players by comparisonF from a capitialization viewpoint, but not by volume of trading. It wasC a pitched battle both in and out of court, lasting approximately 10)C months. All for a lousy $1 million bucks. And quite costly in legalaD fees for some of the litigants. And quite distracting for others. InD the end, a settlement was reached that was not entirely satisfactory+ for a considerable number of the litigants.y  C It may be drivel to some, but the point Dvorak makes - that strangemE things can happen in a courtroom, is to be heeded. And strange thingseF can happen when the parties involved are bullheaded in their own ways.       >o> > (In case he has some staunch followers here, I could go into< > detail on all his errors but I would hope they are glaring# > enough to make that unnecessary.)i >c > bill >  > --E > Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three  wolvesF > bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton   |@ > Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2003 01:26:34 GMTd( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)Y Subject: Re: Would HP even consider offering customers VMS under Scenarios A, B, or C? Nae5 Message-ID: <bbm688$b3dqg$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>n  J In article <L9wDa.352508$w7k.286217@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,& 	"John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes: > 7 > "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message 1 > news:bblaor$aju87$2@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de...M
 >> In articleeA > <71pDa.349596$w7k.110575@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, ( >> "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:8 >> > http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,4149,1115156,00.asp >> > >> > Killing Linux >> > >> > June 2, 2003o >> > By  John C. Dvorakv >> > >>E >> I stopped readin his drivel back during his Dec Professional days. F >> He obviosly hasn't gotten better since he, too, started singing the+ >> praises of the PC.  As clueless as ever.m >  > H > I was party to a civil court action about 2 years ago wherein a number@ > of very large banks and exchange members went up against otherF > exchange members who were generally very small players by comparisonH > from a capitialization viewpoint, but not by volume of trading. It wasE > a pitched battle both in and out of court, lasting approximately 10cE > months. All for a lousy $1 million bucks. And quite costly in legalsF > fees for some of the litigants. And quite distracting for others. InF > the end, a settlement was reached that was not entirely satisfactory- > for a considerable number of the litigants.  > E > It may be drivel to some, but the point Dvorak makes - that strange G > things can happen in a courtroom, is to be heeded. And strange thingsrH > can happen when the parties involved are bullheaded in their own ways. >   @ Maybe so, but it doesn't change the fact that this battle is notC likely to have any long term effect on Linux in general.  The worst-G it can do is make the current keeper of the kernel remove the offending F code and considering that Linux has been around  along time before IBME got into the picture, any leakage from AIX is likely to be trivial at: best.0  5 He also seems to ignore the main point which is that:IN ((Linux != "the open source movement") && (GNU != "the open source movement"))  G The world is not going to go ringin to billyware no matter what happens>I to Linux or the FSF.  There was open source software bfore them and thereo will continue to be after them.T   bill b   -- tJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 01:37:47 GMTf# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>sY Subject: Re: Would HP even consider offering customers VMS under Scenarios A, B, or C? NaIH Message-ID: <L9xDa.128737$cK1.6085@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  5 "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote in messagen/ news:bbm688$b3dqg$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de...  > In article? <L9wDa.352508$w7k.286217@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,-' > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:  > >09 > > "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote in messageu3 > > news:bblaor$aju87$2@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de...4 > >> In articlefC > > <71pDa.349596$w7k.110575@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,f* > >> "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:: > >> > http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,4149,1115156,00.asp > >> > > >> > Killing Linux > >> > > >> > June 2, 2003o > >> > By  John C. Dvoraka > >> > > >>A > >> I stopped readin his drivel back during his Dec Professional  days.eD > >> He obviosly hasn't gotten better since he, too, started singing thep- > >> praises of the PC.  As clueless as ever.r > >o > >xC > > I was party to a civil court action about 2 years ago wherein at numberB > > of very large banks and exchange members went up against other= > > exchange members who were generally very small players by 
 comparisonF > > from a capitialization viewpoint, but not by volume of trading. It wastD > > a pitched battle both in and out of court, lasting approximately 10A > > months. All for a lousy $1 million bucks. And quite costly inS legalsE > > fees for some of the litigants. And quite distracting for others.h In; > > the end, a settlement was reached that was not entirely  satisfactory/ > > for a considerable number of the litigants.e > >v? > > It may be drivel to some, but the point Dvorak makes - thatr strangeeB > > things can happen in a courtroom, is to be heeded. And strange thingsD > > can happen when the parties involved are bullheaded in their own ways.i > >c >eB > Maybe so, but it doesn't change the fact that this battle is notE > likely to have any long term effect on Linux in general.  The worstf? > it can do is make the current keeper of the kernel remove thet	 offendingrD > code and considering that Linux has been around  along time before IBMoD > got into the picture, any leakage from AIX is likely to be trivial at > best.  >t7 > He also seems to ignore the main point which is that:hD > ((Linux != "the open source movement") && (GNU != "the open source movement"))  >rA > The world is not going to go ringin to billyware no matter whatt happenssE > to Linux or the FSF.  There was open source software bfore them andt there ! > will continue to be after them.)  > I agree completely. But there will be FUD in the minds of some< corporations, large and small, and that also provides *some*C opportunity for VMS....if it were ever marketed. That was my point.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 21:24:56 -0500m1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>kY Subject: Re: Would HP even consider offering customers VMS under Scenarios A, B, or C? Nae& Message-ID: <3EDEA9F8.621D8DB@fsi.net>   John Smith wrote:h > [snip]E > It may be drivel to some, but the point Dvorak makes - that strangeaG > things can happen in a courtroom, is to be heeded. And strange things H > can happen when the parties involved are bullheaded in their own ways.  B Indeed. Chicago's Mayor Richard Daley ordered the vandalism of theE lakefront airport Meigs Field claiming to be protecting the city fromeG "terrorism-by-air". I guess terrorism by an elected official is somehownH considered preferable, but I digress. To date, he remains unindicted andH unprosecuted - not even arrested. He and his henchmen did the dirty workG by night, he said, to stave off and prevent "further debate". The stateoE courts have recently lifted stays and injunctions barring the furtherN destruction of the airfield.  F Now, the state legislature has given Daley carte blanche to seize landG from the suburbs surrounding O'Hare International to expand the airportuF without compensation or even due process. The suburban electorate (whoG did *NOT* elect Daley) no longer have a say in the matter by state law, A assuming the governor signs it as he is quoted as saying he will.   F Strange things can happen in court, even stranger things can happen in the legislature.  3 ...and you thought VMS management was hosed up, eh?i   -- y David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems' http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/r   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 21:56:28 GMT5+ From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (leslie)cN Subject: Re: [OT] Inquirer Article Origins - The Conspiracy Theories. (was Re:9 Message-ID: <gWtDa.3300$lT4.188543@twister.austin.rr.com>t  + JF Mezei (jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com) wrote:  : L : In the same way, I have come to think of CNN as a Bush propaganda machine - : that is totally biased and thus unreliable.  :l  H Lou Dobbs' recent series of reports on Exporting America were certainly A NOT propaganda for the Property Party (democrats & republicans). e   The transcripts are online...0   May 19:f  5   http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0305/19/mlld.00.html   F ``Tonight, we begin a special series of reports on a rising threat to C   the American economy and the American worker. We've titled these iE   reports exporting America because we're shipping not only American iF   dollars around the world but we're also shipping economic activity, *   jobs, and manufacturing plants overseas.  G   Tonight, we begin with a look at the broken promise of international  D   trade for hundreds of thousands of American workers. Jobs in this C   country are disappearing, in some cases literally being exported nC   overseas along with valuable technology and intellectual capital.i  N   We could have easily entitled these reports the great American giveaway...''   May 20:s  5   http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0305/20/mlld.00.htmll   May 21:r  5   http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0305/21/mlld.00.htmlu  L  "HOLLINGS: Well right to the point, instead of investigating manufacturing C   firms that are exporting the jobs, we got to sort of investigate  K   the Congress, educate the Congress. We have just voted 10 minutes ago to lN   do away with the buy America provision of the defense bill, so before long, +   we'll be buying the uniforms in China..."=     May 22:n  5   http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0305/22/mlld.00.html    May 23:t  5   http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0305/23/mlld.00.htmly  J ``Kenneth Yerty of West Covina, California: "How about exporting the jobs ?   of all our U.S. lawmakers who favor exporting American jobs?"n  I   Wayne Pinkham of Bristol, Connecticut was outraged. He says: "I cannot eH   believe that my own government has created a situation where I am not I   discriminated by my race, religion, veteran status, sexual preference, e<   sex or age, but by being a citizen of the United States."   K   And Larry Glickman of Stuart, Florida, had a great idea for CEOs who are -J   interested in raising productivity by outsourcing to foreign countries: G   "I'm sure," he says, "many Indian business school graduates would be 4J   thrilled to take the CEO jobs of U.S. corporations. They would work for M   $200,000 or less, not $20 million, and would be hard pressed to do a worse '   job than U.S. CEOs."''     May 26:e  5   http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0305/26/mlld.00.html      May 27:h  5   http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0305/27/mlld.00.htmls  L  ''And Will Kernen of Ohio writes, "Dear Lou. How long before Americans are 7   sneaking across the border to find jobs in Mexico?"''g      2 --Jerry Leslie   (my opinions are strictly my own)9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for email    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2003 21:23:32 -0000'4 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]>Y Subject: [OT] Inquirer Article Origins - The Conspiracy Theories. (was Re: Another futureh6 Message-ID: <20030604212332.22044.qmail@gacracker.org>  @ On Wed, 04 Jun 2003, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote: > "Doc.Cypher" wrote:<% > > First, The Inquirer is UK-based.   > N > Terry Shannon is an all american boy who has contributed under many names toL > that publication. So I don't draw any conclusions on author etc etc. All IN > know is that when an article is actually signed by Mr Shannon, it means that: > the article is more likely to toe the HP corporate line.  M I did not state, nor imply, that the location of The Inquirer influenced what J parts of the world they would accept submissions from.  I was pointing outN that it would be wise to discount spelling as they *should* use UK-English for checking submissions.   J > > your guess to Canada or EU (excluding UK).  Personally, I do not think > > this ist< > > the work of someone with English as their mother tongue. > M > Actually, I was thinking of Alan Grieg. His absence from newsgroup may haveoK > just meant he refocused his spare energy to writing for the Inquirer. :-)a  H The reference to Jobserve, and citing it as a UK-based site may be a redD herring.  I, and many other mainland-EU based people, use the site.   O > Have you ever considered that the author may in fact be Sue sending the stuff  > from a home computer?i  M JF, I've been looking at "anonymous" writings for a long time.  That includesiM looking for the common mistakes people make that give them away.  If you wanteN a conspiracy theory, then let's just say I know exactly who the author is, and my posting was misdirection. p  P > Or, in a more demented way, it could be Peter Blackmore writing those articlesM > to sustain the image that HP has no intentions to grow VMS, thus helping HPn0 > achieve its goal of getting rid of VMS :-) :-) > 7 > Or, while we are at it, it could be Andrew Harrisson.rP > Or Paul McCartney, Prince William, Jacques Chirac, Ken Olsen, Bob Dole, Nelson > Mandella  :-) ;-) :-) :-)s  H Does *who* the author is significantly influence your opinion on what is stated within the piece?    M After all, if my earlier post was misdirection, it could be someone in the UKsM intelligence community trying to say, "Get your act together before some damnn0 Bliarite mandates that we all use Windows".  :-)     Doc. -- pK OpenVMS.  Eight out of ten hackers                   https://vmsbox.cjb.nettK           prefer *other* operating systems.        http://althacker.cjb.neto   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 21:16:37 GMTx# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>gY Subject: Re: [OT] Inquirer Article Origins - The Conspiracy Theories. (was Re: Another fueI Message-ID: <VktDa.126976$cK1.91282@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   A "Doc.Cypher" <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in message 0 news:20030604212332.22044.qmail@gacracker.org...B > On Wed, 04 Jun 2003, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote: > > "Doc.Cypher" wrote:c& > > > First, The Inquirer is UK-based. > >dB > > Terry Shannon is an all american boy who has contributed under
 many names totC > > that publication. So I don't draw any conclusions on author etc 
 etc. All IE > > know is that when an article is actually signed by Mr Shannon, ito
 means that< > > the article is more likely to toe the HP corporate line. >e? > I did not state, nor imply, that the location of The Inquirert influenced whatr? > parts of the world they would accept submissions from.  I wasi pointing outA > that it would be wise to discount spelling as they *should* usee UK-English for > checking submissions.  >gF > > > your guess to Canada or EU (excluding UK).  Personally, I do not think,
 > > > this isg> > > > the work of someone with English as their mother tongue. > >tF > > Actually, I was thinking of Alan Grieg. His absence from newsgroup may have? > > just meant he refocused his spare energy to writing for theh
 Inquirer. :-)o >eF > The reference to Jobserve, and citing it as a UK-based site may be a redeE > herring.  I, and many other mainland-EU based people, use the site.  >a? > > Have you ever considered that the author may in fact be SueV sending the stuff  > > from a home computer?  >iF > JF, I've been looking at "anonymous" writings for a long time.  That includesF > looking for the common mistakes people make that give them away.  If you wantA > a conspiracy theory, then let's just say I know exactly who thec author is, and > my posting was misdirection. >wC > > Or, in a more demented way, it could be Peter Blackmore writingh those articlesD > > to sustain the image that HP has no intentions to grow VMS, thus
 helping HP2 > > achieve its goal of getting rid of VMS :-) :-) > >s9 > > Or, while we are at it, it could be Andrew Harrisson. E > > Or Paul McCartney, Prince William, Jacques Chirac, Ken Olsen, Bob  Dole, Nelson > > Mandella  :-) ;-) :-) :-)M >iB > Does *who* the author is significantly influence your opinion on what iso > stated within the piece? >RE > After all, if my earlier post was misdirection, it could be someonee	 in the UKwE > intelligence community trying to say, "Get your act together beforee	 some damnf2 > Bliarite mandates that we all use Windows".  :-)    9 Whomever it may be, their arguments are well thought out.l  C But I still have to vote for the former Iraqi Information Minister,lF Mohammed Saeed al-Sahhaf, to take over VMS marketing. If nothing else,F it'll get all the free worldwide airtime and press time you could ever want.g  E VMS marketing will never be dull again and every announcement is surenD to be covered in the press. He may even get another web site to call1 his own ....  www.WeLoveTheVMSarketingManager.comn   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 23:34:59 GMTtL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")Y Subject: Re: [OT] Inquirer Article Origins - The Conspiracy Theories. (was Re: Another ful6 Message-ID: <00A20E3F.B4141775@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  V In article <3EDE63EC.19B5F038@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes: >aO >In the same way, I have come to think of CNN as a Bush propaganda machine thatdN >is totally biased and thus unreliable. Still tune in from time to time to seeM >what they have to say because it is important to know what the masses in thew >USA are being fed.   H If you think _CNN_ is a Bush propaganda machine, you should see Fox News Channel sometime.s   -- Alanm -- aO =============================================================================== 0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056 M  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025 O ===============================================================================h   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 17:26:09 -0400e* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>Y Subject: Re: [OT] Inquirer Article Origins - The Conspiracy Theories. (was Re: Another fua) Message-ID: <3EDE63EC.19B5F038@istop.com>o   "Doc.Cypher" wrote:nJ > Does *who* the author is significantly influence your opinion on what is > stated within the piece?   Yes and no.r  K Consider my posts here. Many just don't like my name and instead of judging-< each post by their content, they just killfile all my posts.  N In a less dramatic fashion, over recent months, I have built a certain opinionI of certain authors, not so much of their personality, but what they can ,hJ cannot, do and do not say. The recent article "defending" HP's handling ofM VMS, had it been written by anonymous, would have had less "meaning". Because H it was written by Terry Shannon, the contents remained the same, but theI article reflected on Mr Shannon, and subsequent articles will be tainted.   N In the same way, I have come to think of CNN as a Bush propaganda machine thatM is totally biased and thus unreliable. Still tune in from time to time to seefL what they have to say because it is important to know what the masses in theN USA are being fed. Similarly, it is still important to see what Mr Shannon hasN to say, but one has to take it with a grain of salt because of suspiscion thatK he is not free to say what he really wants to say (don't bite the hand that  feeds you).   J Similarly, a single statement from a top HP person wouldn't signify a trueM change in handling of VMS. But it may signify the start of such. So one would C then have to keep eyes wide open to see if that statement is reallysM translating is a real change, or of the person was simply playing lip service  to calm, the masses. x  I A statement by Mr Gorham on the state of VMS has a lot less weight than ahM statement from Carly, even if it is the exact same statement. That is becauseuL I know that there are layers between Gorham and Carly who don't like VMS. SoL if something go up above that layer, it has more weight than if it is issuedI by a grunt at the bottom of the scale who is below an inpenetrable layer.i   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 15:12:56 -0400o* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>9 Subject: Re: [The Inquirer] "HP trying to dump OpenVMS ?"c) Message-ID: <3EDE44B0.68F778ED@istop.com>    Keith Parris wrote:eH > The porting effort is being made under the assumption that this is NOT= > the last time VMS will be ported to a new CPU architecture s  L Ok, lets *ASSUME FOR THE SAKE OF DISCUSSION* that the engineers complete theI port to IA64 in mid 2004. Now, before VMS becomes commercially available,t? Intel announces it is ditching IA64 in favour of a 64 bit 8086.i  I How long would it then take to port VMS to either Power or Hammer or even  Sparc ?2 Could it be done in 1 year ?   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2003 14:27:43 -0500-- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 9 Subject: Re: [The Inquirer] "HP trying to dump OpenVMS ?"!3 Message-ID: <zqCYcCmhaFvo@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  p In article <cf15391e.0306040945.c79f1a6@posting.google.com>, keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) writes:  H > The porting effort is being made under the assumption that this is NOTG > the last time VMS will be ported to a new CPU architecture -- new CPUdA > architectures/paradigms come along about every 10 years, so VMSeD > Engineering is assuming that VMS will need to be ported to anotherE > architecture 10 years from now, and again 20 years from now, and so$B > on.  To save effort and costs in the long term, they're not justF > porting VMS, but making VMS more portable.  This strategy also helpsG > minimize the risk to VMS' viability of any CPU architecture shifts ine. > the industry that might occur in the future.  @ Until it becomes necessary to port to a 128 bit architecture :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 12:46:00 -0700.+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> 9 Subject: Re: [The Inquirer] "HP trying to dump OpenVMS ?"e% Message-ID: <3EDE4C78.20200@MMaz.com>    JF Mezei wrote:    >Keith Parris wrote: >    >rH >>The porting effort is being made under the assumption that this is NOT= >>the last time VMS will be ported to a new CPU architecture o >>     >> >uM >Ok, lets *ASSUME FOR THE SAKE OF DISCUSSION* that the engineers complete thetJ >port to IA64 in mid 2004. Now, before VMS becomes commercially available,@ >Intel announces it is ditching IA64 in favour of a 64 bit 8086. >mJ >How long would it then take to port VMS to either Power or Hammer or even >Sparc ? >Could it be done in 1 year ?  >.B Recall years past when the requests existed for VMS to run on X86 I chipsets?  Ironic if this completes the circle ending up there almost 15 iD years later...  The real question is volume, the reason for killing E Alpha.  Can the other architectures reach the volume necessary to be t5 commodity pricing, as they claimed the IA64 would be?   I I like the earlier thought someone else mentioned, could you imagine the nE VAX architecture with today's fab capabilities?  How fast could they u/ be?  More importantly, how cheap could they be?    Barryo     -- n  @ Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIO   A E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028t   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 20:02:23 -0500v1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>a9 Subject: Re: [The Inquirer] "HP trying to dump OpenVMS ?"a' Message-ID: <3EDE969F.5B611733@fsi.net>T   Keith Parris wrote:w > w > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message news:<OOfya.189646$M81.139495@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>...sD > > without EV8x there is no long-term life for VMS if Itanic sinks. > B > VMS Engineering is not just porting VMS to Itanium -- it is alsoE > taking formerly architecture-dependent functions (like PALcode, the 5 > SRM console, etc.) and moving them into VMS itself.   D So, Opteron should be less of a challenge if the predictions of some6 pundits hold true. I admit, I tend to agree with them.  H > The porting effort is being made under the assumption that this is NOTG > the last time VMS will be ported to a new CPU architecture -- new CPUvA > architectures/paradigms come along about every 10 years, so VMS D > Engineering is assuming that VMS will need to be ported to anotherE > architecture 10 years from now, and again 20 years from now, and soS > on.   F I can't help thinking about the long terms plans I was forced to leave behind after recent lay-offs.   E Twenty years into the future of VMS is almost as big a stretch as BobmG Hope expecting to be around by then. True, he made 100 and George BurnstF didn't. But, his physical condition parallels VMS's status too closely> for my comfort. We all know where to place the blame for VMS'sC languishing in ignominity - it's not just the ravages of age. If weg@ treated our family the way management treats VMS, we'd have been arrested for neglect ages ago.  = > To save effort and costs in the long term, they're not justLF > porting VMS, but making VMS more portable.  This strategy also helpsG > minimize the risk to VMS' viability of any CPU architecture shifts ini. > the industry that might occur in the future.  7 Shifts in the industry are the least of VMS's worries. n   -- b David J. Dachteran dba DJE Systemst http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 10:32:13 +1000r1 From: Paddy O'Brien <paddy.o'brien@tg.nsw.gov.au>)9 Subject: Re: [The Inquirer] "HP trying to dump OpenVMS ?"w, Message-ID: <3EDE8F8D.7040304@tg.nsw.gov.au>   David J. Dachtera wrote: [snips]lG > Twenty years into the future of VMS is almost as big a stretch as BoboI > Hope expecting to be around by then. True, he made 100 and George Burnsy	 > didn't.n [snips].  > Yes he did.  His birthday was in January and he died in March.   Regards, Paddy      G ***********************************************************************   C "This electronic message and any attachments may contain privileged > and confidential information intended only for the use of the B addressees named above.  If you are not the intended recipient of C this email, please delete the message and any attachment and adviseiB the sender.  You are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, 7 distribution, reproduction of this email is prohibited.l  A If you have received the email in error, please notify TransGrid -A immediately.  Any views expressed in this email are those of the  = individual sender except where the sender expressly and with  C authority states them to be the views of TransGrid.  TransGrid usest> virus scanning software but excludes any liability for viruses contained in any attachment.  < Please note the email address for TransGrid personnel is now$ firstname.lastname@transgrid.com.au"  G ***********************************************************************.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 21:13:00 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>r9 Subject: Re: [The Inquirer] "HP trying to dump OpenVMS ?",' Message-ID: <3EDEA72C.AEC0F63D@fsi.net>o   Paddy O'Brien wrote: >  > David J. Dachtera wrote:	 > [snips]iI > > Twenty years into the future of VMS is almost as big a stretch as Bob3K > > Hope expecting to be around by then. True, he made 100 and George Burns  > > didn't.g	 > [snips]E > @ > Yes he did.  His birthday was in January and he died in March.  , Hhmmm... I thought he was 99 when he died...  4 He claimed to have been booked in London at age 100.   -- l David J. DachteraL dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/v   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.309 ************************