1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 05 Jun 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 310       Contents:1 Re: Another future of VMS article on the Inquirer 1 Re: Another future of VMS article on the Inquirer  Re: Argh- help!  Re: CHANNELCNT=65532 ? Re: CHANNELCNT=65532 ?P Date issue in Winnt /  win2000 in files from vms throug pathworks advanced serve Re: DCL_CHECK issues* DCL_CHECK posted on http://dcl.openvms.org DCPS printing error  Re: DCPS printing error  diagnostic tools alphaServer7 RE: Download service for VMS and Tru64 layered products 7 Re: Download service for VMS and Tru64 layered products 7 RE: Download service for VMS and Tru64 layered products 7 Re: Download service for VMS and Tru64 layered products 8 Encompass Message:  "Itanium: The Roadmap to the Future" Re: Firewall for VMS / TRU64 Re: Firewall for VMS / TRU64 Re: Firewall for VMS / TRU64 Re: Firewall for VMS / TRU64) Re: Foro Yahoo VMS de usuarios argentinos $ HP Security Seminar June 24th Dallas" Re: Information on EXE$GL_VP_FLAGS Re: Install Directory / Re: Intel 64 bit Pentium seems to be on its way / Re: Intel 64 bit Pentium seems to be on its way / Re: Intel 64 bit Pentium seems to be on its way ) Re: Interpreting image exit status values ) Re: Interpreting image exit status values ) Re: Interpreting image exit status values C Re: Linux breaches at an all-time high ... Windoze security better? C Re: Linux breaches at an all-time high ... Windoze security better? C Re: Linux breaches at an all-time high ... Windoze security better? C Re: Linux breaches at an all-time high ... Windoze security better? ? OpenVMS.org: Mixed Architecture VMS Clusters Survey (Noitce #2) C Re: OpenVMS.org: Mixed Architecture VMS Clusters Survey (Noitce #2)  Re: Portents of VMS death  Re: Portents of VMS death  Re: Portents of VMS death  Re: Portents of VMS death  Re: Portents of VMS death  Re: Portents of VMS death  Re: Portents of VMS death  Re: Portents of VMS death  Re: Portents of VMS death  Re: Portents of VMS death  Re: Portents of VMS death  Re: Portents of VMS death  Re: Portents of VMS death : Re: Radeon 7500 and XP-1000 and OpenGL 1.2: is it working?: Re: Radeon 7500 and XP-1000 and OpenGL 1.2: is it working? Radeon 7500 on a PWS( Re: Samba + Multinet: The Saga continues Re: SDLT vs LTO tape library RE: SDLT vs LTO tape library Re: SNA-RJE & Re: Speed of IDE controllers in DS10 ?& Re: Speed of IDE controllers in DS10 ?& Re: Speed of IDE controllers in DS10 ?& Re: Speed of IDE controllers in DS10 ?& Re: Speed of IDE controllers in DS10 ? VMS SQL client What do these Macro codes mean? # Re: What do these Macro codes mean? # Re: What do these Macro codes mean? # RE: What do these Macro codes mean? # Re: What do these Macro codes mean? # Re: What do these Macro codes mean? # Re: What do these Macro codes mean? # RE: What do these Macro codes mean? # Re: What do these Macro codes mean? # Re: What do these Macro codes mean? P Re: Would HP even consider offering customers VMS under Scenarios A, B, or C? NaP Re: Would HP even consider offering customers VMS under Scenarios A, B, or C? NaP Re: Would HP even consider offering customers VMS under Scenarios A, B, or C? NaP Re: [OT] Inquirer Article Origins - The Conspiracy Theories. (was Re:  Another fP Re: [OT] Inquirer Article Origins - The Conspiracy Theories. (was Re:  Another fP Re: [OT] Inquirer Article Origins - The Conspiracy Theories. (was Re:  Another fP Re: [OT] Inquirer Article Origins - The Conspiracy Theories. (was Re: Another fu0 Re: [The Inquirer] "HP trying to dump OpenVMS ?"0 Re: [The Inquirer] "HP trying to dump OpenVMS ?"0 Re: [The Inquirer] "HP trying to dump OpenVMS ?"0 Re: [The Inquirer] "HP trying to dump OpenVMS ?"0 Re: [The Inquirer] "HP trying to dump OpenVMS ?"0 Re: [The Inquirer] "HP trying to dump OpenVMS ?"  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 13:13:16 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> : Subject: Re: Another future of VMS article on the InquirerF Message-ID: <MlHDa.4649$3Sm.1103@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  7 "Dave Gudewicz" <k9jdk@NOSPAMarrl.net> wrote in message ) news:vdt9ckfrvncl61@corp.supernews.com... E > Since I didn't see any others say this....  I sent the link of this  article,> > called it the VMS gauntlet article (the sequel) to Stallard, Marcello and	 > Gorham.     A I believe that the article was also sent to her coiffed cuteness.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 13:34:48 GMT 2 From: "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@NOSPAMopenvms.org>: Subject: Re: Another future of VMS article on the Inquirer= Message-ID: <YFHDa.25335$nr.2282325@twister.southeast.rr.com>   K Just out of curriosity, I called the sales number at the bottom of the OVMS H homepage to see if they knew what VMS was.  I tried three seperate timesK with different names and company names.  All three times they knew what VMS H was and where to forward the call for sales assistance.  I didn't go anyH further than that.  BTW, sorry to whoever answered the phone.  I hung up when getting forwarded.   L I just had a thought...  When you guys have an HP salesman that comes in andJ tries to push Microsoft or other solution, you need to pull him off to theE side and ask him what he/she's doing.  Tell them if they pushed a VMS L solution their commision would be many timers greater then selling PCs.  AskC them what on earth they are thinking.  They should understand that.    -- Kenneth Farmer <><        6 "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> wrote in message! news:3EDE491C.7010106@MMaz.com...  > JF Mezei wrote:  > G > >But nobody knows that HP sells VMS. Many don't even know that VMS is  still L > >alive. Many know that Alpha is dead. So it is HP's responsability to tell the H > >world that VMS is alive and kicking and make it a viable option wirth looking 0 > >into when you are looking for an IT solution. > >  > > H > Call HP, they don't even knowthat they sell VMS, especially if you askG > for OpenVMS, all they hear is Openview...  That point alone should be I > enough for HP to rebrand OpenVMS back to VMS and then make an effort to  > push the product...  >  > Barry  >  > --   > A > Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIO  > C > E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028  >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 13:22:39 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: Argh- help!0 Message-ID: <00A20ECC.787747C0@SendSpamHere.ORG>  [ In article <3EDEAB37.162F4FB8@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:  >Dean Woodward wrote:  >>  K >> I've got a DPWS 500 with a bad NIC on the system board. I put a DE500 in K >> and just use EWB0, but I'm inundated with carrier check failure messages  >> from the unused NIC.  >>  + >> How do I disable this thing permanently?  >  >As Dan said, kill it in NCP:  > ! >NCP> SET CIRCUIT EWA-0 STATE OFF  >NCP> CLEAR CIRCUIT EWA-0 ALL  >NCP> PURGE CIRCUIT EWA-0 ALL  >NCP> SET LINE EWA-0 STATE OFF >NCP> CLEAR LINE EWA-0 ALL >NCP> PURGE LINE EWA-0 ALL > I >Again, if you're using DECnet-V, it may take years to divine the correct G >incantations to accomplish such simple tasks, but I'm sure someone who E >has already done it can provide some insights. Perhaps NET$CONFIGURE  >will be helpful. Dunno.  H It's not that difficult.  Think back... how long did it take you to use/
 learn NCP?   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 09:05:31 -0400 From: norm.raphael@metso.com Subject: Re: CHANNELCNT=65532 ? ? Message-ID: <OF792CB1BC.F5BDF9A7-ON85256D3C.004765A6@metso.com>   F Of course, it is possible (even best practice at times) to run autogen stoppingF at TESTFILES and not do the SETFILES step.  Many do this and then do aG sanity check of what is about to change.  If this has been done at your 
 site, then9 modparams, setparams and params would all be updated, but B alphavmssys.par would not be changed.  You might want to check theI modified-date on that file, but of course if a SYSGEN WRITE was done then  that@ date would be updated and the autogen files might not have been.
 Nevertheless, 5 you could see if the dates on these four files match.   * [DL - sorry about the earlier bad subject]  @ From:  ka2doug@cs.commoc.sc (DL Phillips) on 06/04/2003 07:10 PM  4 Please respond to ka2doug@cs.commoc.sc (DL Phillips)   To:    Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com cc:   " Subject:    Re: CHANNELCNT=65532 ?    
 >Jilly wrote:  >>DL Phillips wrote: <snips> + >> Node XXXXXX:   Parameters in use: ACTIVE B >> CHANNELCNT         65532       256        31     65535 Channels >>, >> Node XXXXXX:   Parameters in use: CURRENTB >> CHANNELCNT          1368       256        31     65535 Channels >>8 <stuff showing 1368 value was in setparams at last boot> >>H >Generally this is because you have a params file in SYS$SYSROOT and oneE >in SYS$COMMON.  Do a DIRECTORY SYS$SYSTEM:ALPHAVMSSYS.PAR and see if G >this is the case.  When VMS boots it will read the file in SYS$SYSROOT 8 >but some times the utilities use the one in SYS$COMMON. >  !!!   % $DIRECTORY SYS$SYSTEM:ALPHAVMSSYS.PAR    Directory SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSEXE]   ALPHAVMSSYS.PAR;1    Total of 1 file.$ $dir dka0:[000000...]alphavmssys.par   Directory DKA0:[SYS0.SYSEXE]   ALPHAVMSSYS.PAR;1    Total of 1 file. !!!   )     Darn, just one file. Any other ideas?        DL Phillips    !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Original post with no additional" commentary follows, so if you read it before, you can stop here. ! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! % >AlphaServer DS10/466, OpenVMS V7.1-2 "  >  PATHWORKS V6.1 Advanced Server >  >SYSMAN> param show channelcnt) >Node XXXXXX:   Parameters in use: ACTIVE E >Parameter Name   Current   Default   Minimum   Maximum Unit  Dynamic E >--------------   -------   -------   -------   ------- ----  ------- @ >CHANNELCNT         65532       256        31     65535 Channels >!!! >   Well, that's strange.  >!!! >SYSMAN> param use current >SYSMAN> param show channelcnt* >Node XXXXXX:   Parameters in use: CURRENTE >Parameter Name   Current   Default   Minimum   Maximum Unit  Dynamic E >--------------   -------   -------   -------   ------- ----  ------- @ >CHANNELCNT          1368       256        31     65535 Channels > ' >$write sys$output f$getsyi("boottime")  >29-MAY-2003 19:39:01.00 >  >$set def sys$system6 >$dir/date/before=29-MAY-2003:19:39 *params.dat/vers=1 > - >MODPARAMS.DAT;29     23-MAR-2003 23:22:23.24 - >PARAMS.DAT;19        28-MAY-2003 16:39:46.29 - >SETPARAMS.DAT;20     28-MAY-2003 16:39:55.49  > C >$search modparams.dat;29,params.dat;19,setparams.dat;20 channelcnt  >****************************** % >SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSEXE]MODPARAMS.DAT;29  > H >MIN_CHANNELCNT = 1368   ! PATHWORKS V6 for OpenVMS 23-MAR-2003 23:22:23 >  >****************************** " >SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSEXE]PARAMS.DAT;19 > F >MIN_CHANNELCNT = 1368 ! PATHWORKS V6 FOR OPENVMS 23-MAR-2003 23:22:23 >  >****************************** % >SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSEXE]SETPARAMS.DAT;20  >  >set CHANNELCNT 1368 >$ >!!!( >    Okay, so why is ACTIVE at Max when:$ >      1) CHANNELCNT is NOT dynamic.3 >      2) CHANNELCNT was set to 1368 by the AUTOGEN ! >    just prior to the last boot. 8 >      3) CHANNELCNT should have an ACTIVE value of 1368 > > >    Further investigation uncovered a possible reason for the; >    65532 value's existence, but not for it's persistence.  >!!!/ >$search *params.dat;* channelcnt,65532/mat=and  >  >****************************** $ >SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSEXE]MODPARAMS.DAT;7 > H >MIN_CHANNELCNT = 65532  ! PATHWORKS V5 for OpenVMS 18-APR-2000 10:13:35 >  >****************************** " >SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSEXE]PARAMS.DAT;15 > G >MIN_CHANNELCNT = 65532 ! PATHWORKS V5 FOR OPENVMS 18-APR-2000 10:13:35  >  >****************************** % >SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSEXE]SETPARAMS.DAT;15  >  >set CHANNELCNT 65532  >$ >!!!7 >    So, way back when, PATHWORKS set MIN_~ to 65532. I : >    don't know and I don't really care now why it did so.7 >    It is possible that the ACTIVE value has been such < >    since then even though it has gone though many autogens9 >    and reboots with smaller, more normal values. I just  >    haven't notice it before. > : >    But why doesn't the SET command in SETPARAMS actually >    set the requested value?  > = >    Searching on-line OpenVMS documentation at HP yields the  >    typical response." >        (*) openvms documentation >        search: CHANNELCNT / >        No results were found for your search.  > : >    Searching the Wizard and Googling c.o.v. yields quite= >    a lot of discussion about the relationship of channelcnt = >    to various products but nothing I could find relevant to = >    this condition. The doc's I have in-hand just define the > >    parameter (misleadingly) and mention its consideration in@ >    tuning a backup account. These things I already understand. > 9 >    There should Possibly be something in a release note 9 >    and/or an ECO about this CHANNELCNT phenomenon but I 8 >    can't find it. Anyone have any insight they wish to >    share?  > 7 >    I'm hoping that a MODPARAMS MAX_CHANNELCNT = 1368, 7 >    autogen and reboot will work, but I can't try that  >    until the weekend.  > 0 >    FWIW, This is a very lightly loaded system: >!!! >$show users8 >      OpenVMS User Processes at  3-JUN-2003 10:17:23.53: >    Total number of users = 20,  number of processes = 21 >    ... >  >$ show mem/phys/slots > G >Physical Memory Usage (pages):  Total     Free      In Use    Modified G >  Main Memory (384.00Mb)        49152    33391       13614        2147  > G >Slot Usage (slots):             Total     Free    Resident     Swapped G >  Process Entry Slots             200      150          50           0 G >  Balance Set Slots               198      150          48           0  > F >Of the physical pages in use, 4763 pages are permanently allocated... >$ >!!! >  >    DL Phillips   ------------------------------   Date: 05 Jun 2003 13:52:41 GMT( From: ka2doug@cs.commoc.sc (DL Phillips) Subject: Re: CHANNELCNT=65532 ? > Message-ID: <20030605095241.28409.00000038@mb-m13.news.cs.com>  G >Of course, it is possible (even best practice at times) to run autogen 	 >stopping G >at TESTFILES and not do the SETFILES step.  Many do this and then do a H >sanity check of what is about to change.  If this has been done at your >site, then : >modparams, setparams and params would all be updated, butC >alphavmssys.par would not be changed.  You might want to check the J >modified-date on that file, but of course if a SYSGEN WRITE was done then >that A >date would be updated and the autogen files might not have been.  >Nevertheless,6 >you could see if the dates on these four files match. >  >   C No, I did the last autogen through reboot and the setparams.dat and M alphavmssys.par file dates agree. Besides, CURRENT shows the lower channelcnt A and I think that comes from the alphavmssys.par file, doesn't it?   M I don't have access to the source, nor probably the time to understand all of C the code if I did, but I wonder if there could be something in the  I alpphavmssys.par file that is holding on to the high min_ value. Or maybe O something else has been equally munged too high and vms is adjusting channelcnt  back up based on that?  O There isn't a lot of documentation that I can readily get my hands on about how , this really works, so all I can do is guess.    DL Phillips   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2003 23:33:07 -0700   From: zeanette@hotmail.com (zea)Y Subject: Date issue in Winnt /  win2000 in files from vms throug pathworks advanced serve = Message-ID: <574473cf.0306042233.17f99b08@posting.google.com>   > Date issue in Winnt/win2000 in files from vms throug pathworks advanced server.  ? Our users can see the right date on a file in VMS but in WINxxx B pathwork has change the date so all date looks the same. We really1 need to see the originaldate on our files, in NT. D All this happened when we upgraded to Pathworks Advanced Server, V6.   Has anyone any suggestions?    Have a great day.  /Zea   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 12:42:41 GMT 2 From: "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@NOSPAMopenvms.org> Subject: Re: DCL_CHECK issues = Message-ID: <5VGDa.25327$nr.2273512@twister.southeast.rr.com>   9 http://dcl.openvms.org/stories.php?story=03/06/05/6066644    -- Kenneth Farmer <><  = Unix:  http://www.EnterpriseUnix.org  |  http://www.Tru64.org ; OpenVMS:  http://www.OpenVMS.org  |  http://dcl.OpenVMS.org B Linux:  http://www.EnterpriseLinux.org  |  http://www.LinuxHPC.org< Storage: http://www.EnterpriseStorage.org (work in progress)    C "Chris Townley" <news@townleyc.nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message 2 news:vs0tdv83e6end366pl9hc46kpfs5b39hqg@4ax.com...H > On Wed, 04 Jun 2003 13:19:55 GMT, hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie > Hammond) wrote:  >  > <snip> > > G > >If you would like a copy of the current version of DCL_CHECK, please 	 email me. 1 > >If you can't reach me, try posting here again.  > >  > > E > I am sure there are loads of us who would love the new version - is - > there any chance of putting on an ftp site?  > : > It is a great tool, but always looking for the latest... > --   > Chris Townley + > chris at townleyc dot demon dot co dot uk    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 12:40:55 GMT 2 From: "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@NOSPAMopenvms.org>3 Subject: DCL_CHECK posted on http://dcl.openvms.org = Message-ID: <rTGDa.25326$nr.2270908@twister.southeast.rr.com>   / If anyone wanted Charlie Hammond's DCL_CHECK...   9 http://dcl.openvms.org/stories.php?story=03/06/05/6066644   J Everyone post your procedures!  If you have some up on the web already andL you don't mind if I post them, let me know the url.  I'll slowly work my wayK to them.  Of course if you submitted them yourself they would be up quicker J and it would mean less work for me.  :)  Submit/Contribute at below url...  " http://dcl.openvms.org/contrib.php  K Just get them in, I'll figure out how to categorize and archive them once I I get a handful of procedures.  This site is starting to show some promise. J Also, if you know of any docs, info or links to something DCL that I don't/ have posted yet let me know.  I'll get them up.    -- Kenneth Farmer <><  = Unix:  http://www.EnterpriseUnix.org  |  http://www.Tru64.org ; OpenVMS:  http://www.OpenVMS.org  |  http://dcl.OpenVMS.org B Linux:  http://www.EnterpriseLinux.org  |  http://www.LinuxHPC.org< Storage: http://www.EnterpriseStorage.org (work in progress)   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2003 08:05:15 -0700 3 From: pa@it.singer-friedlander.com (Piyush Avichal)  Subject: DCPS printing error= Message-ID: <eb55ac2a.0306050705.775c7fb1@posting.google.com>    Hello,  C I am trying to print to a HP9000 printer using dcps 2.2 from AXPVMS  7.3-1.F I am trying to get it staple the documents but get the following error when printing:  D %DCPS-W-UNDEF, undefined: Name not known - offending command is kaka  ....Rest of Job will be ignored.  @ Other parameters work fine and the printer does staple if set to staple in its setup.    Any ideas what this error means?   TIA,   Piyush   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 16:27:21 GMT * From: Paul Anderson <paul.anderson@hp.com>  Subject: Re: DCPS printing error5 Message-ID: <050620031210070010%paul.anderson@hp.com>   D In article <eb55ac2a.0306050705.775c7fb1@posting.google.com>, Piyush- Avichal <pa@it.singer-friedlander.com> wrote:   E > I am trying to print to a HP9000 printer using dcps 2.2 from AXPVMS  > 7.3-1.H > I am trying to get it staple the documents but get the following error > when printing: > F > %DCPS-W-UNDEF, undefined: Name not known - offending command is kaka" > ....Rest of Job will be ignored. > B > Other parameters work fine and the printer does staple if set to > staple in its setup. > " > Any ideas what this error means?  4 This error means you found a known bug in DCPS V2.2.  D The HP Customer Support Center should be able to supply you with newD versions of two device control modules that will fix this problem on@ the printers affected by it (LaserJet 8000, 8100, 8150, 9000 and	 9000mfp).   E Or you can send me mail and I'll send you the modules and the command 4 to insert them into the DCPS device control library.   Paul   --    Paul Anderson   OpenVMS Engineering    Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2003 10:45:58 -0700 , From: JimStrehlow@data911.com (Jim Strehlow)% Subject: diagnostic tools alphaServer = Message-ID: <4b6ec350.0306050945.38202d7b@posting.google.com>   9 What are good diagnostic tools for an OpenVMS AlphaServer   - free download  - on the tools CD-ROM  - licensed additional software   H An OpenVMS AlphaServer (on software support but not on hardware support)F frequently "locks up" where the DECwindows screen does not refresh and keyboard and mouse do not work.   R But, we can reboot and use the system for thirty minutes before it locks up again.   Just replace the motherboard? * Run what diagnostics? ( >>> SYS_EXER  ?? )  ) Thank you for the information in advance.    Jim Strehlow Data911  Alameda, CA, USA   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 07:33:34 -0400' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> @ Subject: RE: Download service for VMS and Tru64 layered productsR Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB0588FC@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----6 > From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com]=20 > Sent: June 3, 2003 10:36 PM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com B > Subject: Re: Download service for VMS and Tru64 layered products >=20 >=20 > Sean O'Banion wrote: > >=20G > > Unfortunately, it only downloads to Windoze: NTLM authentication is 
 > > required.  >=20@ > What is NTLM ? Did Microsoft mess with the FTP protocol ? I=20 > can't understand: > why HP would use non-compliant proprietarty microsoft=20 > protocols for anything. E > But I am not surprised. HP is a subsidiary of Microsoft, after all.  >=20  
 Re: NTLM -=20   ? Check out what Opera says about NTLM - (one long url will wrap) J http://www.opera.com/support/search/supsearch.dml?index=3D463&session=3Dc= 168  236f1a63c4a5316931a2b0dbda74   Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.! Consulting & Integration Services  Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom-     (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s)  OpenVMS DCL - the original .COM    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2003 15:10:54 +0100 K From: pmoreau@ath.cena.fr (Patrick MOREAU, CENA Athis, Tel: 01.69.57.68.40) @ Subject: Re: Download service for VMS and Tru64 layered products! Message-ID: <FIGGEHotw$Wt@sinead>   Y In article <bbkjo1$98t$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb) writes:  [...] . > The prerequisites for Mozilla on VMS  are :- >  > VMS 7.2-2 or Higher " > DecWindows Motif 1.2-4 or higher > TCPIP Services 5.0 or higher    E Mozilla runs well under VMS 7.2-1 (even if not officially supported).    Patrick  --O =============================================================================== N pmoreau@ath.cena.fr  (CENA)      ______      ___   _          (Patrick MOREAU)4 moreau_p@decus.fr (DECUS)       / /   /     / /|  /|J CENA/Athis-Mons FRANCE         / /___/     / / | / |   __   __   __   __  N BP 205                        / /         / /  |/  |  |  | |__| |__  |__| |  |N 94542 ORLY AEROGARE CEDEX    / /   ::    / /       |  |__| | \  |__  |  | |__|N http://www.ath.cena.fr/~pmoreau/            http://www.multimania.com/pmoreau/O ===============================================================================    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 06:45:02 -0700# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> @ Subject: RE: Download service for VMS and Tru64 layered products9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIEEGFHFAA.tom@kednos.com>    >-----Original Message----- 6 >From: Patrick MOREAU, CENA Athis, Tel: 01.69.57.68.40 >[mailto:pmoreau@ath.cena.fr] & >Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 7:11 AM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComA >Subject: Re: Download service for VMS and Tru64 layered products  >  > - >In article <bbkjo1$98t$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>,  . >david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb) writes: >[...]  / >> The prerequisites for Mozilla on VMS  are :-  >>   >> VMS 7.2-2 or Higher# >> DecWindows Motif 1.2-4 or higher   >> TCPIP Services 5.0 or higher  > F >Mozilla runs well under VMS 7.2-1 (even if not officially supported). > G 'Well' is a subjective measure and some of us have different standards.    >Patrick >-- D >===================================================================
 >============ ? >pmoreau@ath.cena.fr  (CENA)      ______      ___   _            >(Patrick MOREAU) 5 >moreau_p@decus.fr (DECUS)       / /   /     / /|  /| K >CENA/Athis-Mons FRANCE         / /___/     / / | / |   __   __   __   __   A >BP 205                        / /         / /  |/  |  |  | |__|   >|__  |__| |  | A >94542 ORLY AEROGARE CEDEX    / /   ::    / /       |  |__| | \    >|__  |  | |__| - >http://www.ath.cena.fr/~pmoreau/             # >http://www.multimania.com/pmoreau/ D >===================================================================
 >============  >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). A >Version: 6.0.484 / Virus Database: 282 - Release Date: 5/27/2003  >  --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.484 / Virus Database: 282 - Release Date: 5/27/2003   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 10:58:14 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>@ Subject: Re: Download service for VMS and Tru64 layered products) Message-ID: <3EDF5A85.90075074@istop.com>    "Main, Kerry" wrote:A > Check out what Opera says about NTLM - (one long url will wrap) f > http://www.opera.com/support/search/supsearch.dml?index=463&session=c168236f1a63c4a5316931a2b0dbda74  # Yep, the last sentense says it all:    # K There are no plans to support NTLM, as it is proprietary, and might soon be  dropped by Microsoft as well.  #     N I think that customers should simply refuse to do business with web sites thatM require this proprietary thing. It is HP that needs to bend to customer needs  and not the other way around.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 09:30:48 -0700  From: Jason Brady <>A Subject: Encompass Message:  "Itanium: The Roadmap to the Future" 8 Message-ID: <94rudvg9opqlrpgb85k74mui76m256d5bv@4ax.com>  C Just received the following from Encompass.  Check out the web page B and note the wording differences.  Either one, of course, fails toA mention OpenVMS (unless "AlphaServer ... environment" is a veiled D reference).  Who is John Loether?  Exactly what constitutes a "great full breakfast"?  
 >Dear Jason,   > H >hp's Adaptive Enterprise is about flexibility, scalability, agility andJ >return on IT. In this seminar, you will learn how the investment you haveJ >made in your current environment, plus this Roadmap to the Future, enable- >you to achieve a truly Adaptive Enterprise.   > J >Here's your chance to discover firsthand how HP Itanium 2-based solutionsL >can simplify your IT environment. Whether you want to grow your AlphaServerH >or HP UX environment, scale up or consolidate with Windows or implement7 >Linux, Itanium systems from hp provide the clear path. 7 >http://www.hp.com/large/events/2003/discovery_itanium/  >  >When:  ( >June 18 in Seattle (Avnet Sponsoring).  >June 19 in Portland.  >July 8 in Denver.   >July 10 in Salt Lake City > B >Who should attend:  Managers, directors, CIOs, decision-makers orJ >influencers in any hp customer account, as well as Sun customers or other >Unix shops. > E >Why attend:  Customers will learn where hp is heading - the Adaptive M >Enterprise - from one of the top speakers that we have, John Loether.   They M >will find out why their past purchases of hp technology were great decisions K >- because of the roadmap that we'll lay out for them.   They will find out H >where our systems are going, and feel secure enough to accelarate theirH >purchases now.  They will hear from Red Hat a compelling Linux message.J >They will hear the recently announce 64 bit Windows story.  They will seeG >the Oracle 9iRAC platform running on Itanium, and hear from Oracle the F >details.   And, they'll have a great full breakfast and great prizes.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 10:11:15 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> % Subject: Re: Firewall for VMS / TRU64 0 Message-ID: <bbn1fr$3mt$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Bob Ceculski wrote:  > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<bbkbek$4on$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...  > F >>   External firewall boxes are an inexpensive and effective option."  >>End quote ==================== >>< >>Now I could believe you or I could believe the wizard, its< >>a difficult choice but on the basis of track record I will >>go with the wizard.  >>; >>All of which tends to suggest that you would be better of ; >>not using the send button without thinking or researching : >>your subject. You should have taken my advice earlier in; >>the thread you would be looking less confused if you had.  >>	 >>Regards  >>Andrew Harrison  >  > E > well Andrew, you strike out again, because the wizard unfortunately G > has to deal with ucx and doesn't know anything about the capabilities E > of TCPware ... packet filtering, encrypted decnet over IP, ssh2 ... F > add to that the security VMS offers and as defcon9 proved, I believe< > you could run a VMS box as a firewall very effectively ...  1 Another posting you shouldn't have made when will 
 you learn.  3 I was rather hoping that you were going to try this  tack.    Here are two of your posts  ? "and of course on unix/linux you need to buy security, and even > after trying to buy it, the security model is so weak that you; still get hacked, unlike vms which can run securely without  extra addons ..."   = "we'll take this a little slower for you Andrew ... VMS comes 8 with security, Sun has to add in a free security product< because slowaris has no security, and now slowaris still has= no security ... CERT count slowaris 559 VMS 10 ... looks like > your screen has a few holes in it and the bugs are coming in!"  A Appart form the made up suggestion that there are CERT advisories = that cover security holes in SunScreen (there arn't) you also A claim that VMS comes with the products to do what SunScreen does.   9 TCPware is not supplied with OpenVMS you buy it and its a > layered product. Exactly what you accuse Solaris of requiring.  9 So why are you pursuing a point which you knew all allong 
 was untrue ??   6 Please please think before hitting the send button, at7 the moment all you are doing thrashing about and making 	 it worse.    regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 10:38:02 +0000 (UTC)+ From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb) % Subject: Re: Firewall for VMS / TRU64 + Message-ID: <bbn6ia$i53$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>   [ In article <3EDE950E.B5BF103D@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:  >Bob Ceculski wrote: >>   >> Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<bbkbek$4on$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>... >> >I >> >    External firewall boxes are an inexpensive and effective option." # >> > End quote ====================  >> >? >> > Now I could believe you or I could believe the wizard, its ? >> > a difficult choice but on the basis of track record I will  >> > go with the wizard. >> >> >> > All of which tends to suggest that you would be better of> >> > not using the send button without thinking or researching= >> > your subject. You should have taken my advice earlier in > >> > the thread you would be looking less confused if you had. >> > >> > Regards >> > Andrew Harrison >>  F >> well Andrew, you strike out again, because the wizard unfortunatelyH >> has to deal with ucx and doesn't know anything about the capabilitiesF >> of TCPware ... packet filtering, encrypted decnet over IP, ssh2 ...G >> add to that the security VMS offers and as defcon9 proved, I believei= >> you could run a VMS box as a firewall very effectively ...r >   J Although TCPWARE does provide Packet filtering and also much better accessG control on services than DEC TCPIP services it is far from what I would I regard as a firewall. The packet filtering is just that packet filtering.eH It is not in any way stateful. Most modern routers now provide this typeH of packet filtering whereas Linux Iptables is a stateful packet filter.   O The packet filtering capabilities of TCPWARE would probably not affect the work L required to write a real firewall for VMS. According to the type of firewallL you were writing you would need stateful packet filtering and/or application@ proxies (nowadays most firewalls utilise both these approaches).      
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University          I >Well, the burden of proof, I'm sorry to say, is on you. Can "it" be donenG >with TCPware? Provide effective firewall capabilities without actuallys* >installing specialized firewall software? >eA >If you can do it, post your data - the config.'s, the tests, theeF >results, etc. - and it will be a feather in your cap. Maybe even land >you a new job, y'never know >aG >Make unsubstantiated claims and they will be the albatross around yourn >neck. >i? >A word to the wise - if you're at all open to it: Yes, this ismG >"comp.os.vms", not "comp.os.balanced-viewpoint". Still, it's one thingiF >to be firm in your beliefs and convictions, as you clearly are - likeE >many of us. It's something else entirely to be simply a cheerleader,sE >with no proof or evidence, just empty claims (say: "sales-critter"),MH >vis-a-vis claims about the futures of Alpha/NT, Alpha itself, VMS, etc. >sB >In short, put your evidence where your keyboard (read: mouth) is. > G >Sorry if this sounds too stern. I'm trying to help, weak attempt as itM
 >may be... >o >--  >David J. Dachtera >dba DJE Systems >http://www.djesys.com/  >t) >Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:1  >http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 16:41:39 +0100bO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>a% Subject: Re: Firewall for VMS / TRU64I0 Message-ID: <bbnobs$bde$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Bob Ceculski wrote:e > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<bbkbek$4on$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...s > F >>   External firewall boxes are an inexpensive and effective option."  >>End quote ==================== >>< >>Now I could believe you or I could believe the wizard, its< >>a difficult choice but on the basis of track record I will >>go with the wizard.  >>; >>All of which tends to suggest that you would be better ofe; >>not using the send button without thinking or researchingr: >>your subject. You should have taken my advice earlier in; >>the thread you would be looking less confused if you had.  >>	 >>Regards  >>Andrew Harrisono >  > E > well Andrew, you strike out again, because the wizard unfortunately G > has to deal with ucx and doesn't know anything about the capabilitiesIE > of TCPware ... packet filtering, encrypted decnet over IP, ssh2 ... F > add to that the security VMS offers and as defcon9 proved, I believe< > you could run a VMS box as a firewall very effectively ... >       D "TCPware's packet filtering capability complements existing firewall  H security by providing an additional security layer on internal networks.  H It can prevent your site from receiving datagrams from certain networks 	 or hosts.i  I Datagrams can be filtered by protocol (IP, ICMP, UDP, or TCP), source andn  5 destination address, or source and destination port."-  C Sorry Bob but TCPware don't agree with you either. Unless you don'tJ" understand what complements means.  + This BTW is from the TCPware documentation.u   regardsg Andrew Harrison$   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 12:25:32 -0400S( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>% Subject: Re: Firewall for VMS / TRU64c, Message-ID: <3EDF6EFC.2030007@tsoft-inc.com>  ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:   > Boob Ceculski wrote:  F >> well Andrew, you strike out again, because the wizard unfortunatelyH >> has to deal with ucx and doesn't know anything about the capabilitiesF >> of TCPware ... packet filtering, encrypted decnet over IP, ssh2 ...G >> add to that the security VMS offers and as defcon9 proved, I believe = >> you could run a VMS box as a firewall very effectively ...e  8 > Please please think before hitting the send button, at9 > the moment all you are doing thrashing about and makingn > it worse.a    Andy boy, why do you write this?  ? If boob didn't hit the send button, we'd have no entertainment!a   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2003 07:38:37 -0700y( From: userdecar@yahoo.com.ar (UserDECAr)2 Subject: Re: Foro Yahoo VMS de usuarios argentinos< Message-ID: <60063a4.0306050638.697bcc59@posting.google.com>  = Now in "american english", the only language in the world :-)T  8 Ther is active the argentine DEC users discussion group. For join to it, take a view in M+ http://ar.groups.yahoo.com/group/userdecar/0& The language of this group is spanish.   SYLn hasta la vista   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2003 09:38:10 -0700a1 From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski)i- Subject: HP Security Seminar June 24th Dallasa= Message-ID: <857e9e41.0306050838.3c145731@posting.google.com>    ----Original Message-----T From: Skonetski, Susan  & Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 11:58 AM" To: Skonetski, Susan; Howard, Dale: Subject: HEADS UP - HP Security Seminar in Texas June 24th Importance: High    C Folks this is a heads up for an hp security symposium being held inh@ Dallas TX.  This will be an excellent event with Jane Boyle - US, Attorney General for TX and Dr Bill Hancock.  ? If there is any way you can attend this, I really recommend it.6  I http://www.hp.com/large/events/2003/security_symp/?jumpid=go/espacesecure1 or 3  " http://www.hp.com/go/espacesecure   
 Warm Regards,: Sue-   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 08:16:08 GMTE, From: "Ed Dennison" <ed.dennison@compaq.com>+ Subject: Re: Information on EXE$GL_VP_FLAGSa1 Message-ID: <c%CDa.2007$MB2.913@news.cpqcorp.net>    Andreas,  A     It's always worth checking the file 'sys$library:lib.req' foreL definitions of VMS sysmbols/structures. A search of this file (on VAX) wouldK show you the meaning of the bits in this global longword. There seems to be E 3 bits defined (0,1 and 31) - the EXE$V_xxx sysmbols give you the bitN
 positions.  L     If you can't find anything in lib.req try 'starlet.req' - but this tendsF to be for things that are already documented somewhere in the manuals.          Ed Dennison  1 "Andreas W. Wylach" <aw@ioc3.de> wrote in messagea6 news:e951e78f.0306032226.8b1ea59@posting.google.com... > Hello everybody, > K > does anybody have some information on the symbol EXE$GL_VP_FLAGS? I can't D > find anything in the vax bible (internals & data structures) or on
 > the net.H > What i think is it checks the vector processing flags. I dont know theG > the inputs and outputs or what kind of flags/bits are set or readable- > by this symbol.-G > It is in a piece of software i disassembled and analyze these days tou* > use it in a software i write on vax/vms." > Any help is greatly appreciated! >6 > Greetings  > Andreas W Wylach > aw@ioc3.de   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 15:05:57 GMT & From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net> Subject: Re: Install Directory8 Message-ID: <gqmudvk8e7mlr77kq1t9hnf33sbj4hlmuo@4ax.com>  H On Tue, 03 Jun 2003 22:03:42 -0400, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote:   >Hoff Hoffman wrote:I >>   The usual installation target for layered product startup proceduresEL >>   is in SYS$STARTUP:, and when operating with your own tools in a clusterH >>   environment, you will usually want to specify this directory as theK >>   cluster-common directory SYS$COMMON:[SYS$STARTUP].  For management andgG >>   related tasks and for startups on older products, use SYS$MANAGER:a >uL >Who am I to disagree woith the all-mighty Hoff ?  But I do disagree on thisN >one.  While I have no problem with VMS using the above nomemclature, and someL >of the system integrated products using it,  I take issue with this being a) >blanket statement for all applications. N > 8 >Have you seen what TCPIP Services does to sys$manager ? >1H >Also, there is a big advantage for 3rd party applications to have theirN >startup procedure in tyheir own directory. When it is invoked, that procedureO >can find its own directory and then define the logicals pointing to it. If youSG >have a startup file in sys$startup, it has no way of knowing where itsi >software is located.t  K Back when I was managing systems & clusters on a daily basis, I implementedSC system logicals as a standard operating procedure for all installedS	 software.   J For every piece of software I installed I created a logical "appname_disk"F that was concealed, terminal, sometimes rooted logical, and defined inI SYLOGICALS.COM.  When the VMSinstal procedures asked where to install the!/ software, I used this logical as the disk name.l  D Sometimes I would have to go through the supplied startup proceduresB afterward to make sure it used that logical correctly in all other' application logicals where appropriate.r  J What this allowed me to do was move applications much more easily, and allI I had to do was make sure the one logical (defined in SYLOGICALS.COM) was  defined to the new location.  K Unfortunately, DEC-supplied software products were notorious for not giving H the destination disk option, so sometimes I had to move things after the> installation, or else just leave it on the system disk (YUK!).   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 14:06:03 GMTn9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> 8 Subject: Re: Intel 64 bit Pentium seems to be on its way1 Message-ID: <f7IDa.2029$dN2.512@news.cpqcorp.net>u  < "Milton" <mbhewitt.SPAMBLOCK@optonline.net> wrote in message2 news:pfasdvkteps2ktqh2hpdma8qij3hp3f9c4@4ax.com...5 > On Tue, 03 Jun 2003 15:37:07 GMT, "Fred Kleinsorge"0* > <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> wrote: >0 > How about Cray, Inc? >DL http://www.amd.com/us-en/Corporate/VirtualPressRoom/0,,51_104_543~56268,00.h tmlp >mG > Kinda shoots the shit outta yer argument that Opteron is *only* a 2-4E > way server chip  >   L Not really.  Depends on what you call a "Supercomputer".  We've been sellingI "Supercomputers" based on ES40's with quadrics switches.  One can surmiseMG that "10,000" CPU's aren't going to be in one box.  So this is really a C loosely coupled Linux "Supercomputer" good for distributed parallel2J computing.  Frankly, IA64 would have been a better choice - since it blowsL Opteron away for FP performance - which is what the referenced system really needs.  J The chip itself isn't designed to scale above 8 processors, and really hasJ the sweet spot set at 4.  Is it possible to design a set of core logic andK marry this chip to a system with lot's of processors?  Yup.  But that isn'te it's design.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 08:01:24 -0700* From: "Jack Peacock" <peacock@simconv.com>8 Subject: Re: Intel 64 bit Pentium seems to be on its way2 Message-ID: <XI2cnZDQ1LarxkKjXTWcog@mpowercom.net>  D "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> wrote in message+ news:f7IDa.2029$dN2.512@news.cpqcorp.net...3@ > Frankly, IA64 would have been a better choice - since it blowsG > Opteron away for FP performance - which is what the referenced system  really > needs. >IL On a per CPU basis the IA64 may be faster, but since it's a parallel machineJ cost per node would seem to be as much a factor as node thruput.  For sakeL of argument, if the IA64 is twice as fast but 5 times the cost of an OpteronL then it makes sense to use four times as many nodes with the slower CPU, allG other considerations being equal.  Per node might be slower but overall 4 thruput for a massive parallel task would be higher.  E Does IA64 have any intrinsic architectural advantages when scaling tonK hundreds/thousands of nodes?  Doesn't the interconnect between nodes becomeh$ more significant than raw CPU speed?    Jack Peacocki   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 16:09:22 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>o8 Subject: Re: Intel 64 bit Pentium seems to be on its way0 Message-ID: <bbnmfb$aqg$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:> > "Milton" <mbhewitt.SPAMBLOCK@optonline.net> wrote in message4 > news:pfasdvkteps2ktqh2hpdma8qij3hp3f9c4@4ax.com... > 5 >>On Tue, 03 Jun 2003 15:37:07 GMT, "Fred Kleinsorge"f* >><my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> wrote: >> >>How about Cray, Inc? >> > N > http://www.amd.com/us-en/Corporate/VirtualPressRoom/0,,51_104_543~56268,00.h > tmlt > G >>Kinda shoots the shit outta yer argument that Opteron is *only* a 2-4o >>way server chip  >> >  > N > Not really.  Depends on what you call a "Supercomputer".  We've been sellingK > "Supercomputers" based on ES40's with quadrics switches.  One can surmise I > that "10,000" CPU's aren't going to be in one box.  So this is really a E > loosely coupled Linux "Supercomputer" good for distributed parallel4L > computing.  Frankly, IA64 would have been a better choice - since it blowsN > Opteron away for FP performance - which is what the referenced system really > needs. >   ? BS currently the 1.8 GHZ Opteron does 1219 SPECfp compared withhF 1431 for Itanium II. 17% faster isn't blowing anyone out of the water.  A Once you get to SPECratefp numbers then the differential vanishes5B almost entirely (we are after all talking about servers here) 49.30 for a 4 way Itanium 2, 49.2 for a 4 way Opteron.  > It would appear that your jibe about Opterons sweet spot being= 4 CPU's is better applied to Itanium which currently based onn< the benchmark you chose SPECfp has a sweet spot of 1-2 CPU's  G Both Opteron numbers are based on the 32bit Intel compiler, performance H will improve with the 64bit compilers. 20% would be a reasonable initial	 estimate.t  C Cray will not be shipping 32 bit systems and they are probably more C interested in the fact that you can get a configured Opteron system C for 1/6th of the price of a configured IA-64 that and the fact thathB Opteron has much much better thermal characteristics than IA-64 at@ 50% of IA-64, building a system with 10,000 130 watt CPU's makesA much less sense than building a system with 10,000 70 watt CPU's.i  > You should follow the advice I have been giving Bob, don't hit@ the send button until you are sure you know what you are talking about.   regardsp Andrew HarrisontL > The chip itself isn't designed to scale above 8 processors, and really hasL > the sweet spot set at 4.  Is it possible to design a set of core logic andM > marry this chip to a system with lot's of processors?  Yup.  But that isn'tg > it's design. >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 12:31:14 +0200e, From: Albrecht Schlosser <ajs856@tiscali.de>2 Subject: Re: Interpreting image exit status values, Message-ID: <b56nbb.nm9.ln@news.hus-soft.de>   Bob Koehler wrote: > I >    Back around VMS 2 or so, if you messed up inside RMS you could get a I >    fatal bugcheck (VMS crashes).  For VMS 3.0 (or was it 4.0?) a lot of9N >    these were changed to non-fatal bugchecks.  Non-fatal bugchecks cause the' >    process to crash, but VMS goes on.  > E >    This is consistent with the description in the ECO.  If you have J >    been seeing this problem, you can find the non-fatal bugchecks loggedD >    in the system error log (anal/error or one of those new tools).  G Yes, there were bugchecks logged. That was the reason, why I looked for  a patch.  C BTW, another visible effect of this non-fatal bugcheck was that the H process's logfile has not been closed properly (as it would, if it was a "normal" access violation).   L >    If you really want to stop it in it's tracks to verify it you can forceK >    VMS to crash by dynmically setting the SYSGEN BUGCHECKFATAL parameter,p% >    which makes all bugchecks fatal.   : That's correct, but I didn't want to crash the system  :-)   Albrecht Schloert   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 13:08:21 +0200e, From: Albrecht Schlosser <ajs856@tiscali.de>2 Subject: Re: Interpreting image exit status values, Message-ID: <ta8nbb.67a.ln@news.hus-soft.de>   John Laird wrote:d > C > On Wed, 04 Jun 2003 20:10:39 +0200, Albrecht Schlosser ... wrote:n > " > >Did you install V7.3-1 patches? > A > Good question ;-)  I know we have one of the LAN ECOs to fix an J > auto-negotiation issue with the Ethernet card, but I am not sure we have > applied any others.f   $ prod show prod /full  " Look for the "Maintenance" column.   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2003 06:45:54 -0500g From: briggs@encompasserve.org2 Subject: Re: Interpreting image exit status values3 Message-ID: <nr+jYL32Oxig@eisner.encompasserve.org>,  V In article <4JUN200322202544@gerg.tamu.edu>, carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) writes:K > That bit is normally the sts$v_inhib_msg bit, which means "message should0I > not be printed". If this bit is set the normal mechanisms for producingKN > error messages will not produce any output, shich is a lot like the opposite' > of saying that it has been displayed.   G If the error code has already been displayed then you do not want it to ( be displayed again.  So you set the bit.   Simple, no?i   	John Briggs   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 10:03:07 +0100iO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>eL Subject: Re: Linux breaches at an all-time high ... Windoze security better?0 Message-ID: <bbn10k$3hg$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Bob Ceculski wrote:y0 > well Andrew, unix/linux security is worse than* > windoze ... that's what it says here ... > * > http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=9845  ) Another posting you should not have made.t  ) UNIX and Linux are not the same when willV you work that out ?.  , This article referes to security issues with) Linux not with any UNIX operating system.h    Are you some sort of masochist ?   Regardss Andrew Harrison-   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2003 08:18:14 -0700i( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)L Subject: Re: Linux breaches at an all-time high ... Windoze security better?= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0306050718.41cf4f6b@posting.google.com>t   Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<bbn10k$3hg$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...N > Bob Ceculski wrote:t2 > > well Andrew, unix/linux security is worse than, > > windoze ... that's what it says here ... > > , > > http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=9845 > + > Another posting you should not have made.I > + > UNIX and Linux are not the same when will  > you work that out ?1 > . > This article referes to security issues with+ > Linux not with any UNIX operating system.g > " > Are you some sort of masochist ? > 	 > Regardsa > Andrew Harrison0   that isn't what SCO says ...   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 11:08:21 -0400# From: "rob kas" <bob@paychoice.com>gL Subject: Re: Linux breaches at an all-time high ... Windoze security better?/ Message-ID: <vdun6m15oeq94c@corp.supernews.com>    "have made.E >u+ > UNIX and Linux are not the same when willi > you work that out ?o >i. > This article referes to security issues with+ > Linux not with any UNIX operating system.p >i" > Are you some sort of masochist ? >  >o                  Perhaps notI                 But I thinking we should have a raffle of who gets to sit " next to Bob when he has to convertK                 off VMS.    Maybe you could be the Special Guest and sit ons the other side of him. :)0  E                                                                   Robs   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 16:31:32 +0100oO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>-L Subject: Re: Linux breaches at an all-time high ... Windoze security better?0 Message-ID: <bbnnos$bbg$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Bob Ceculski wrote:i > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<bbn10k$3hg$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...S >  >>Bob Ceculski wrote:- >>1 >>>well Andrew, unix/linux security is worse than + >>>windoze ... that's what it says here ...  >>>o+ >>>http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=9845  >>+ >>Another posting you should not have made.  >>+ >>UNIX and Linux are not the same when wille >>you work that out ?  >>. >>This article referes to security issues with+ >>Linux not with any UNIX operating system.i >>" >>Are you some sort of masochist ? >>	 >>Regardso >>Andrew Harrisoni >  >  > that isn't what SCO says ...   Ohh dear another mistake.-  ; SCO is alledging that some SCO IP leaked from UNIX to Linux = they are not suggesting that all the Linux kernel and layered  utilites are based on SCO IP.-  ? The IP stack supplied with OpenVMS comes origionally from Tru64r: does this mean that every Tru64 security problem is also a# problem for OpenVMS, of course not.   ? Nor is it true the other way round either. Which is essentiallyc4 the logic you are attempting to apply to UNIX/linux.  = Every posting you send ends up with more undignified flailingl8 about from your standpoint, do yourself a favour, try to9 understand the subject in hand before posting rather thani* learning about it the hard way afterwards.   RegardsP Andrew Harrisonm   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 12:57:34 GMTn2 From: "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@NOSPAMopenvms.org>H Subject: OpenVMS.org: Mixed Architecture VMS Clusters Survey (Noitce #2)= Message-ID: <27HDa.25331$nr.2276412@twister.southeast.rr.com>u  I Guys!  Take the survey.  The OVMS group gets the rundown on most of them.eI This is a great way to let them know what the community is thinking.  Ah,sK they already know...you want more advertising!  :)  That's no reason to notmH let them know what you're thinking about other OVMS related issues.  TheE more informed they are the better their decisions.  BTW, "getting the K rundown" does not include your personal or comapny info!  In future surveysCJ I will ask if it's ok to give them that info.  Realize some surveys get to them in a summarized article.-  L Just wait until the next survey we're working on.  This one is going to giveL you plenty of chances to let them know what your concerns and praises are inJ detail.  Most of the questions will be open ended (text fields) for plenty of CONSTRUCTIVE comments.0  L ALL of these surveys are an opportunity...now get off your butt and take theK survey!  Terry and I are "working" the results we get from these surveys as= hard as we can.  ;)=  L Help us help you! Oh yea...you can also send cash, check or money order or a GS1280.  :)p  . To all who have taken the survey...THANKS.  :)   KenM   -------------------------   G As you probably know, two weeks ago in Amsterdam, HP demonstrated mixed E architecture VMS clusters, consisting of an AlphaServer GS1280 Marvel H partition running OpenVMS/Alpha and an HP Itanium system running OpenVMSI Industry Standard 64 in an Itanium partition. This demo portends peaceful=I coexistence between clustered Alpha and Itanium systems for many years to-J come. This survey asks several questions about other issues in addition to  mixed architecture VMS clusters.  , http://www.openvms.org/pages.php?page=Survey  K I know, many of you just took the VAX survey.  Well, truth is these surveysML are helping us get a very good picture of some of the atittudes and concernsL of the VMS community.  There will be more in the near future.  The more dataH we can collect to present to HP the better, and no, were not giving awayJ email addresses or company names.  In addition, a couple of future surveysH are going to ask for permission to follow up with some of you.  If given5 permission we will send a more detailed questionarre.D  K I put a text field at the end of every question on this last survey.  SeemsaG I haven't been able to satisfy all survey takers yet and I'm trrying to'G reach a happy medium.  This will give everyone the opportunity to speaktH there mind if they didn't like the question or felt the answers were not good enough.  Be gentle.  :)     -- Kenneth Farmer <><  = Unix:  http://www.EnterpriseUnix.org  |  http://www.Tru64.orgu; OpenVMS:  http://www.OpenVMS.org  |  http://dcl.OpenVMS.orgAB Linux:  http://www.EnterpriseLinux.org  |  http://www.LinuxHPC.org   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 13:12:33 GMT 2 From: "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@NOSPAMopenvms.org>L Subject: Re: OpenVMS.org: Mixed Architecture VMS Clusters Survey (Noitce #2)= Message-ID: <5lHDa.25333$nr.2279589@twister.southeast.rr.com>=  * Geesh.  Noitce?  That's French for Notice.  < I'm starting to think typos are just part of my density.  :)   -- Kenneth Farmer <><   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 10:40:25 +0100 (MET)89 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>r" Subject: Re: Portents of VMS death; Message-ID: <01KWQDR6RTIAAM67GX@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>/  H > After reading this, and trying to be an objective VMS advocate, I sentF > it to Mark Gorham for comment.  His reply was there are >200 schools2 > signed up for the CLSG/VMS free license program.  H How many have DECcampus?  How many have the new license programme?  How A many have both?  For the latter two, how many people use the new (? licenses?  How many had DECcampus 10 years ago?  These are the u interesting questions.   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2003 12:33:19 GMTy( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)" Subject: Re: Portents of VMS death5 Message-ID: <bbndaf$bhe04$2@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>   ; In article <01KWQDR6RTIAAM67GX@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>,t< 	Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:I >> After reading this, and trying to be an objective VMS advocate, I sent-G >> it to Mark Gorham for comment.  His reply was there are >200 schools 3 >> signed up for the CLSG/VMS free license program.: > J > How many have DECcampus?  How many have the new license programme?  How C > many have both?  For the latter two, how many people use the new wA > licenses?  How many had DECcampus 10 years ago?  These are the   > interesting questions.  @ Basicly, as a department, we have nothing (thus the reason why ID need to find an alternative for doing COBOL starting next semester!)C The current education license is unusable for lab machines and noneyE of my machines are covered by the University's CSLG license any more.aF I had a long conversation with someone from HP (Hi Mellisa) who seemedF very interested in fixing the problem but have not heard back from herE so I assume nothing came of it.  Sometimes, no news is not good news.m  E I really can't understand if the Hobbyist License can be used for theoC development of packages that are intended to become real commercialeH products, why, oh why, can't it be designated as the the new educationalG license as well.  The only one likely to make any money from VMS in the $ University classroom and lab is HP!!   bill   -- JJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   y   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 13:17:32 GMTr# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>t" Subject: Re: Portents of VMS deathF Message-ID: <MpHDa.4748$3Sm.1401@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  5 "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote in messaget/ news:bbndaf$bhe04$2@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de...e= > In article <01KWQDR6RTIAAM67GX@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>,n= > Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:TF > >> After reading this, and trying to be an objective VMS advocate, I sentA > >> it to Mark Gorham for comment.  His reply was there are >200  schoolss5 > >> signed up for the CLSG/VMS free license program.p > >.F > > How many have DECcampus?  How many have the new license programme? How D > > many have both?  For the latter two, how many people use the newB > > licenses?  How many had DECcampus 10 years ago?  These are the > > interesting questions. >>B > Basicly, as a department, we have nothing (thus the reason why IF > need to find an alternative for doing COBOL starting next semester!)E > The current education license is unusable for lab machines and noneeA > of my machines are covered by the University's CSLG license any  more. A > I had a long conversation with someone from HP (Hi Mellisa) who  seemedD > very interested in fixing the problem but have not heard back from herfA > so I assume nothing came of it.  Sometimes, no news is not goodh news.b >oC > I really can't understand if the Hobbyist License can be used fora theyE > development of packages that are intended to become real commercialy> > products, why, oh why, can't it be designated as the the new educationalkE > license as well.  The only one likely to make any money from VMS ina thee& > University classroom and lab is HP!!  @ They'd have to form a legal team consisting of 38 of the highest> priced lawyers in the land to define what the word 'education'D means....but first you'd have to find an HP executive who thought itC would be worth the effort of getting VMS re-established in the .edur market.a  F Given that they don't seem to feel that it's worth re-establishing VMS4 in the commercial market, I don't like your chances.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 13:34:51 GMT & From: Woland <weiland@no.spam.post.cz>" Subject: Re: Portents of VMS death0 Message-ID: <CFN377776372903125@news.cup.hp.com>  D On 5 Jun 2003 12:33:19 GMT bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:   > G > I really can't understand if the Hobbyist License can be used for theiE > development of packages that are intended to become real commercial J > products, why, oh why, can't it be designated as the the new educationalI > license as well.  The only one likely to make any money from VMS in thet& > University classroom and lab is HP!!   Well,i  K and what actualy prevents you from using hobbyists license for educational t$ purposes ? In the license agreement M (http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/register_license.html) is not a word about y( it. The only questionable part is this :  ) "Use of the Licensed Computer is ONLY FORh,     NON-COMMERCIAL USES (e.g., home use).  "  O I understand the "e.g., home use" as an example (exempli grata), so as long as HN you don't use your labs computers for making money, you can use this license. O There is not even a word about ownership of the machine, so I guess you  (as a  E person) can obtain valid hobbyist license for computers owned by you e university as well.s   Am i right ?   Jirkaa   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 13:14:27 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>." Subject: Re: Portents of VMS deathF Message-ID: <TmHDa.4686$3Sm.3951@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   Thanks.w    8 "leslie" <LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM> wrote in message3 news:XCyDa.3627$lT4.319381@twister.austin.rr.com...b$ > John Smith (a@nonymous.com) wrote: > : Sorry for top posting... > :u< > : Every time I reply to a post of Kerry's, it never quotes > : properly.......  > : 
 > Here's why:t >a: >   X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.3018.1300 >t > There's a free solution: >y8 >      http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/ >      OE-QuoteFix >l >eA http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/description.html  >      Description >  >     "Description >aF >      OE-QuoteFix will extend the functionality of MS Outlook Express in; >      numerous ways! Its main purpose is to modify messaget compositionnD >      windows on-the-fly to allow for correct quoting and to change thedE >      appearance of your plain-text replies and forwards in general:l moveE >      your signature, use compressed indentation, have RFC complianta >      signatures, etc.s >oC >      But the second feature is equally practical: OE-QuoteFix can A >      instantly color quoted passages (according to the level oflD >      indentation), fix bad quoting and generally beautify messages as( >      you view them in Outlook Express. >p
 >      [snip]t >l >      No Worries  > F >      Lastly, OE-QuoteFix will not modify any system files or OutlookE >      Express files... And the changes it makes to your messages cano beC >      undone by choosing Edit->Undo in Outlook Express, should you/B >      realize that they weren't what you wanted. And if you don't likeD >      OE-QuoteFix at all, you can always uninstall it, but I'm sure youi >      won't want to... ;)"e >f >o > 4 > --Jerry Leslie   (my opinions are strictly my own); >   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for emaila   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 15:43:58 +0100 (MET)r9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>d" Subject: Re: Portents of VMS death; Message-ID: <01KWQOAE9Y28AOKN0V@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>s  @ > and what actualy prevents you from using hobbyists license for2 > educational purposes ? In the license agreement H > (http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/register_license.html) is not a word1 > about it. The only questionable part is this :   > + > "Use of the Licensed Computer is ONLY FORu. >     NON-COMMERCIAL USES (e.g., home use).  " > H > I understand the "e.g., home use" as an example (exempli grata), so asI > long as you don't use your labs computers for making money, you can use  > this license.   * I think there are several answers to this.  I 1: If what you say were true, why would the educational license exist at t, all, since the hobbyist license is superior?   2: One can also read s  3     As such, you may not use the Licensed Computer O3     for any business purposes whatsoever, e.g., to  4     develop applications for resale, to do business      accounting, etc.  D However, it appears that one CAN use it to DEVELOP applications for H resale, at least before one actually starts selling them.  Thus, if the F agreement is not what it seems to be in this respect, it might be not . what it seems to be in other respects as well.  G 3: As a teacher, you ARE making money---your salary---from the license.>@ (I think it's clear that the university itself can't use it for I administration purposes etc.)  I suppose that being "non-profit" doesn't u imply "non-commercial".s   ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 14:59:24 +0000 (UTC)+ From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb)h" Subject: Re: Portents of VMS death+ Message-ID: <bbnlsc$jmk$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>r  Y In article <CFN377776372903125@news.cup.hp.com>, Woland <weiland@no.spam.post.cz> writes: E >On 5 Jun 2003 12:33:19 GMT bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:  >  >>  H >> I really can't understand if the Hobbyist License can be used for theF >> development of packages that are intended to become real commercialK >> products, why, oh why, can't it be designated as the the new educationaloJ >> license as well.  The only one likely to make any money from VMS in the' >> University classroom and lab is HP!!e >. >Well, > L >and what actualy prevents you from using hobbyists license for educational % >purposes ? In the license agreement yN >(http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/register_license.html) is not a word about ) >it. The only questionable part is this :a >m* >"Use of the Licensed Computer is ONLY FOR- >    NON-COMMERCIAL USES (e.g., home use).  "o >oP >I understand the "e.g., home use" as an example (exempli grata), so as long as O >you don't use your labs computers for making money, you can use this license. PP >There is not even a word about ownership of the machine, so I guess you  (as a F >person) can obtain valid hobbyist license for computers owned by you  >university as well. >R  N But the University is a commercial entity and does make money of the computers: by using them to teach students on courses which it sells.O In the US this has pretty much always been the case but even in the UK the dayshF when students had grants and their education was paid for by the LocalK Education authority are long gone. Nowadays it is student loans and tuitiontK fees. Hence if you as an employee of the University used those computers todJ teach your courses then you would be using those computers in a commercial	 activity.i    
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University  
 >Am i right ?t >r >Jirka   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2003 15:26:05 GMTt( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)" Subject: Re: Portents of VMS death5 Message-ID: <bbnnec$bk00q$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>x  0 In article <CFN377776372903125@news.cup.hp.com>,) 	Woland <weiland@no.spam.post.cz> writes:7F > On 5 Jun 2003 12:33:19 GMT bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote: >  >>  H >> I really can't understand if the Hobbyist License can be used for theF >> development of packages that are intended to become real commercialK >> products, why, oh why, can't it be designated as the the new educationalaJ >> license as well.  The only one likely to make any money from VMS in the' >> University classroom and lab is HP!!M >  > Well,r > M > and what actualy prevents you from using hobbyists license for educational a& > purposes ? In the license agreement O > (http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/register_license.html) is not a word about e* > it. The only questionable part is this : > + > "Use of the Licensed Computer is ONLY FOR8. >     NON-COMMERCIAL USES (e.g., home use).  " > Q > I understand the "e.g., home use" as an example (exempli grata), so as long as nP > you don't use your labs computers for making money, you can use this license. Q > There is not even a word about ownership of the machine, so I guess you  (as a eG > person) can obtain valid hobbyist license for computers owned by you   > university as well.f >  > Am i right ?  C No.  We have been through all this before.  It isn't what your or ItF or anybody on c.o.v decides the license means.  It is what it actuallyC says.  The license as written now does not meet the approval of our:B (or any University that I know of) lawyers.  Even in the case of a? not-for-profit school like us the use would still be consideredc% commercial because we are a business.   : My point above is that I don't see how HP can specifically7 and officially(?) say that the initial development of al> future commercial product does not violate the "non-commercial: use" clause of the Hobbyist License and yet can't or won't9 specifically and officially say that the Hobbyist LicensedB also includes its use for educational use in labs and classrooms. A Without that explicit statement schools can not risk the possibleu@ liability.  And, considering that the machines in question would@ likely all be visible on the INTERNET, who is likely to take the2 chance even if the lawyers didn't warn against it?   bill   -- iJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   p   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 11:11:32 -0400f* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>" Subject: Re: Portents of VMS death) Message-ID: <3EDF5DA3.700DEDB3@istop.com>u  
 Woland wrote:oP > There is not even a word about ownership of the machine, so I guess you  (as aF > person) can obtain valid hobbyist license for computers owned by you > university as well.:  C If your use of "hobbyist" license on a university campus results anlN unqualified success in getting students back on VMS, I would say "go ahead andJ "cheat". By the time HP clues in, you will already have sent letters to HPN execs showing how easy it is to get students back onto VMS and getting them toM like VMS etc etc, and that while you had to cheat with the hobbyist programmelN for this "pilot project", a simple change to CLSG/whatever could yield similar. results in may other educational institutions.   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2003 15:43:00 GMTs( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)" Subject: Re: Portents of VMS death5 Message-ID: <bbnoe3$bk00q$2@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>   ) In article <3EDF5DA3.700DEDB3@istop.com>,b- 	JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes:g > Woland wrote:iQ >> There is not even a word about ownership of the machine, so I guess you  (as a G >> person) can obtain valid hobbyist license for computers owned by yout >> university as well. > E > If your use of "hobbyist" license on a university campus results andP > unqualified success in getting students back on VMS, I would say "go ahead and$ > "cheat". By the time HP clues in,   H And can I assume that when HP's lawyers contact the University's lawyersF and the University's lawyers have me dismissed that you will take careH of paying all my bills till I can find another job??  I don't know aboutH you, but I am not willing to take that risk.  That's why we are required: to run every license past the lawyers before accepting it.  M >                                    you will already have sent letters to HPeP > execs showing how easy it is to get students back onto VMS and getting them toO > like VMS etc etc, and that while you had to cheat with the hobbyist programmeuP > for this "pilot project", a simple change to CLSG/whatever could yield similar0 > results in may other educational institutions.  C As usual, the ball is in HP's court.  They can fix all of it with a @ simple statement.  The made it r4egarding developing commenrcial@ products under the Hobbyist License, why is it so hard to do the( same thing for educational institutions?   bill   -- eJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   m   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 12:41:28 -0400s* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>" Subject: Re: Portents of VMS death( Message-ID: <3EDF72B0.7C01A77@istop.com>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:D > (or any University that I know of) lawyers.  Even in the case of aA > not-for-profit school like us the use would still be consideredb' > commercial because we are a business.-  M If the machines are used by faculty or school administrator, I agree with thetJ above. They are using those machines as part of their jobs. (especially if% machines are used to run the school).u  N But if the machines are used by students to write assignments and/or generallyM muck around, then couldn't you find a way to see this as non-commercial use ?i  K Consider the following scenario: you provide the machines, but the studentsrG provide their hobbyist licences. Would this change your lawyer's view ?r  K In fairness, I agree that hobbyist in an educational shouldn't be seen as aeC long term solution. But I see the potential to abose those licencescL temporarily to show HP the true potential of a "real" educational programme.M (eg: if you make it work wonders by cheating, then it becomes a lot easier to + convince HP to setup a real edu programme.)g   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 12:54:40 -04000* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>" Subject: Re: Portents of VMS death) Message-ID: <3EDF75C8.6F6DF235@istop.com>D   Bill Gunshannon wrote:J > And can I assume that when HP's lawyers contact the University's lawyersH > and the University's lawyers have me dismissed that you will take care6 > of paying all my bills till I can find another job??   Fair point.c  E > As usual, the ball is in HP's court.  They can fix all of it with aC > simple statement.   M They could make VMS successfull with simple statements from the top. But theyuI aren't. It is the customers who must push/prod HP into allowing VMS to besM succesful. And this means pushing the envelope to allow VMS to go beyond what ! HP woudl prefer it be limited to.a  K Perhaps if you spoke to Mr Gorham and agreed to setup a pilot project wherehJ hobbyist licences would be allowed in your EDU for student use for 2 years% with metrics to measure the success ?a  J If you could come back to GOrham with a study showing that students reallyJ like VMS and that they have no problems working on VMS if they were oferedN jobs, then Gorham could go to his superiors and start to destroy the myth that: VMS is disliked, seen as an old OS with no future etc etc.  L Because, in the end, that is what needs to be done. It seems to be that someM people at HP really feel that VMS has no future and that all the future restsiH with windows. Every example showing this is wrong will help to gradually change their minds..   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2003 17:38:46 GMTm( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)" Subject: Re: Portents of VMS death5 Message-ID: <bbnv76$b1o9p$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>5  ) In article <3EDF75C8.6F6DF235@istop.com>,o- 	JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes:* > Bill Gunshannon wrote: > F >> As usual, the ball is in HP's court.  They can fix all of it with a >> simple statement.   > O > They could make VMS successfull with simple statements from the top. But they"K > aren't. It is the customers who must push/prod HP into allowing VMS to be 
 > succesful. S  B Like so many here you too have it backwards.  That's just not how  business works.e  P >             And this means pushing the envelope to allow VMS to go beyond what# > HP woudl prefer it be limited to.d > M > Perhaps if you spoke to Mr Gorham and agreed to setup a pilot project whererL > hobbyist licences would be allowed in your EDU for student use for 2 years' > with metrics to measure the success ?i  C And what would you use as a reliable metric?  No professor is goingeF to go the trouble of finding a way to incorporate VMS into his coursesF if there is achance that he will have to re-do the course in two yearsF when HP backs out of the license.  Course prep is a major task and not one that is taken lightly.   > L > If you could come back to GOrham with a study showing that students reallyL > like VMS and that they have no problems working on VMS if they were oferedP > jobs, then Gorham could go to his superiors and start to destroy the myth that< > VMS is disliked, seen as an old OS with no future etc etc.  E No student would have enough experience with VMS after only two yearshE to make any kind of a valid statement like that.  It is unlikely they0G would even have courses two semester in a row that invlolved using  VMS F at anything beyond the user level and they are not likely to find much use for VMS at that level.  E It is necessary to make it possible for VMS to be seen as a long termyG serious CS subject.  Then, maybe, with a lot of work, professors can besL convinced to incorporate it into their courses again.  You have to remember,C they are perfectly happy right now without VMS.  I have no officialsD sanction for my VMS activities, what I have is toleration. But then,@ they also tolerate my PDP-11's so maybe they are just willing toC tolerate my eccentricites in order to keep me around.  Doesn't givedD VMS a very strong base froim which to stage an attack.  Most schoolsE don't even have an advocate any more.  How do you get back into them?u   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 14:00:09 GMTv9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>aC Subject: Re: Radeon 7500 and XP-1000 and OpenGL 1.2: is it working?f2 Message-ID: <J1IDa.2027$dN2.1143@news.cpqcorp.net>  + "Dirk Munk" <munk@home.nl> wrote in messagea, news:bbla5t$dn0$1@news1.tilbu1.nb.home.nl... >aG > It is not made by ATI, but seems to be a 100% clone. Works fine in myy	 DS10, andlA > is a LOT cheaper then a similar card from HP (sorry Fred......)w >   K Yes, but in the grand scheme of the cost of a system - it's noise.  And foriI buying it from us, you help finance our ability to support it and developgJ the code for the next card.  If everyone were to buy the cards seperately,K someone would notice that we aren't selling graphics, and might decide that = since nobody uses graphics we don't need to develop any more.d   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 11:57:48 -0500.( From: Michael Rice <marice@whiteice.com>C Subject: Re: Radeon 7500 and XP-1000 and OpenGL 1.2: is it working?./ Message-ID: <vdutkv43mda950@corp.supernews.com>   , On 6/4/2003 12:20 PM, Fred Kleinsorge wrote:< > "Petros Dafniotis" <pdafniotis@yahoo.com> wrote in message9 > news:e54adf36.0306040001.4161f710@posting.google.com...f >  >>As subject says:G >>I have already a XP-1000 with PowerStorm 350. Problem is that it does-@ >>only OpenGL 1.1 and Compaq/HP will not do anything more on it. >>D >>Now I see that support for Radeon 7500 will include OpenGL 1.2; is >>this working on a XP-1000? >> >  > I > I believe that the DS10L, DS10, DS20E, DS25, ES40, ES45, ES47, ES80 andw. > GS1280 systems are the ones being supported. > K > Will it work?  Yes.  At least *SINGLE HEADED ONLY*.  A firmware change iso; > needed to do XP1000 multi-head - and that is not planned.d >  > F >>Where do I get this card? Is this the same as a All-In-One Wonder VE< >>Radeon 7500 PCI card that is still available for some PCs? >> >  > N > Probably.  But if you have a problem, don't call us.  And don't plug it intoF > any slot that has PCI hotswap HW capability.  Get the HP part numberH > 3X-PBXGG-AA.  This should show up "officially" within the next severalE > weeks, and include Tru64 and VMS CD's with initial support on them.  >   B I have one, but I haven't tried it yet.  This is where I got mine:7 http://www.pagecomputers.com/cgi-bin/page/T0089841.htmli  I I may need another one soon, maybe I'll get that one from HP - unless it w costs an arm and/or a leg.   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2003 04:41:58 -0700e. From: eduardo.anglada@uam.es (Eduardo Anglada) Subject: Radeon 7500 on a PWSi= Message-ID: <9ff19bcb.0306050341.5ae52378@posting.google.com>r   Hi,o  @ I want to learn OpenVMS, but the PowerStorm 4D51T in my PWS-600aJ is not supported by vms, so I wanted to know if the radeon 7500 will work.B Any one has tried it? If it doesn't work what would you recommend?  I (I'm aware that the 600a is an unsopported model, but as it has a cypresstS controller I think it should be able to bootstrap from the IDE CD, and I can borrows a SCSI CD in any case).n   Thanks in advance,   Eduardou   ------------------------------   Date: 05 Jun 2003 09:24:18 GMT) From: rankin@pactechdata.com (Pat Rankin)w1 Subject: Re: Samba + Multinet: The Saga continuesr. Message-ID: <5JUN200302230385@pactechdata.com>  ( In article <3EDD5301.1A7E23CE@fsi.net>,\6  "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes... > Pat Rankin wrote:r [...]e5 >> And if UCX_SERVER is omitted, MultiNet will ignore ' >> the `username = "anything"' setting.c >tJ > When you say "MultiNet will ignore the `username = "anything"' setting",H > what exactly is the result, if you recall? What UIC/user does the SMBD	 > run as?   A      I assume that it will probably run under the same persona as @ MultiNet's master server, which would typically be STARTUP sinceB that server is normally launched during system boot.  And when theB username is ignored it probably also ignores SYSUAF entirely; yourC quotas and privileges and such are likely coming out of the service ' definition and/or using default values.o  D      Can't you use SHOW PROCESSS if it's running, or ACCOUNTING/FULLE if it's not, to get an answer to your question?  You'll get username,   UIC, and the enabled privileges.  2                 Pat Rankin, rankin@pactechdata.com   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 10:45:00 +0100* From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>% Subject: Re: SDLT vs LTO tape library3+ Message-ID: <bbn3et$umm@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>a  ^ "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:3EDEA1DC.2D580A50@fsi.net...  M > Messages like "Extended Sense Data received" mean nothing to non-VMS folks, 
 > apparently.i  U Sounds like hogwash to me: it's no more difficult to interpret the sense data than itsN is to hand decode an IP packet. It might not do any good if what you need is a driver mod., of course.l   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 11:45:14 -0400# From: "Dan Allen" <dallen@nist.gov>/% Subject: RE: SDLT vs LTO tape libraryo: Message-ID: <JFEPKAPBPMDFDBOIANGDAEOJDGAA.dallen@nist.gov>  I > As we - and StorageTek - recently learned, VMS will not provide supportyE > for Generation-1 LTO due to blocksize limitation issues and others.oJ > Gen-2 LTO is not here yet, neither is VMS support for it. So, SDLT is it
 > for now.   Hmmm - got an ADIC LTO2 library in my server lab down the hall that so far works like a charm with W2K Advanced Server and Veritas's BackupExec. Or were you impugning it's performance/reliability? Only been in use for about 2 weeks but so far I REALLY LIKE IT.    Dan  >sH > That said, we are likewise having SDLT issues. The drives are Quantum,G > not HP-badged. Also, they under contract with StorageTek thru the VAR J > and not with HP. So, essentially, we have no support for our SDLT drivesA > on VMS since neither StorageTek nor the VAR has OpenVMS supportmI > resources. Messages like "Extended Sense Data received" mean nothing toa > non-VMS folks, apparently. >e > -- > David J. Dachteray > dba DJE Systemsa > http://www.djesys.com/ >-* > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 11:44:39 +0200. From: "Pim van Velzen" <Pim_van_Velzen@hp.com> Subject: Re: SNA-RJE* Message-ID: <3edf16c3@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  9 You can find this kind of info in the "hp OpenVMS systemsh software rollout report".o    5 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/os/swroll/73-1.HTMLa      K    Product Name             Pair Version EFS MIN MAX      SPD   UPILV Availo  F   Compaq SNA Remote Job     VA  1.6     E 6.2   7.3-1^ 26.85 10UAA NOW   Entry for OpenVMS ?                              ^Use V1.6 eco to support OS V7.3-1o   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 08:18:44 +0200E From: "Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann" <vaxinf@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de>d/ Subject: Re: Speed of IDE controllers in DS10 ?r0 Message-ID: <011201c32b2a$51c6a6e0$0701a8c0@pc1>  K Before you wait for an firmware update, use a SCSI-IDE-Converter and accessM your IDE-drive with 40 MB/s.e   eberhard ----- Original Message -----  From: "Dirk Munk" <munk@home.nl> To: <Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com>.% Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 6:42 AMv/ Subject: Re: Speed of IDE controllers in DS10 ?     1 > You were right Hoff, it is 16 MHz or 33 MB/sec. H > Today I received two new DS10 systems, and a accompanying paper stated this 16 H > MHz. That means that it is a hardware related matter, or could it be a (fixed)-H > firmware setting ? It would be nice if we could set it to 33 MHz or 66 MB/sec,hD > since present day IDE disks can read with more then 33 MB/sec with
 sequentialF > reads, meaning that the present IDE setup could slow down the DS10 ! >r >4 >  > Hoff Hoffman wrote:h@ > > In article <b9fhlo$j8f$1@news1.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>, Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> writes:D > > :Can anyone tell me the speed of the IDE controllers in a DS10 ?@ > > :It will not be 100MByte/sec, but is it 33 or 66 MByte/sec ? > >vK > >   IIRC, The AlphaServer DS10 series ATA bus (IDE) is a 16MHz DMA mode 2 E > >   interface, which makes it ATA33 -- I don't have my ATA specs too confirm B > >   this translation, however.  I think the ATA part used in the AlphaServer K > >   DS10 itself might be capable of ATA66 operations, but I don't know ife thetK > >   motherboard interface or if the OpenVMS DQDRIVER has that capability.u > >r* > >  ---------------------------- #include' <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------s7 > >       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ --  www.openvms.compaq.com. > >  --------------------------- pure personal# opinion ---------------------------rI > >         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.comv > >e >e   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 11:49:18 +0100* From: "John Travell" <john@travell.uk.net>/ Subject: Re: Speed of IDE controllers in DS10 ?t5 Message-ID: <bbn77e$b4t8q$1@ID-120847.news.dfncis.de>p  3 (top posting fixed, and surplus details deleted...)rH "Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann" <vaxinf@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de> wrote in2 message news:011201c32b2a$51c6a6e0$0701a8c0@pc1... > ----- Original Message -----" > From: "Dirk Munk" <munk@home.nl> > To: <Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com>i' > Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 6:42 AMt1 > Subject: Re: Speed of IDE controllers in DS10 ?. >t >s3 > > You were right Hoff, it is 16 MHz or 33 MB/sec.cC > > Today I received two new DS10 systems, and a accompanying paper  > > stated this 16 MHz.  > >-  F > Before you wait for an firmware update, use a SCSI-IDE-Converter and access > your > IDE-drive with 40 MB/s.h >o >eE Has anyone got any recommendations for which brand and model to use ?6D I see some from Acard <http://www.acard.com/eng/product/scside.html>> (or look in the products list at <http://www.acard.com/eng/> )= and one from ADTX <http://www.adtx.com/us/conv-SCSI-IDE.html> ( that seems to be a much older SCSI spec.  L SCSI is not really my area of expertise, what is this LVD stuff that seems a. feature of some of the converters from Acard ?     -- John Travell  VMS crashdump expertise for hire john@travell.uk.netn http://www.travell.uk.net/             ----& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A Version: 6.0.484 / Virus Database: 282 - Release Date: 27/05/2003n   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 12:12:19 +0100* From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>/ Subject: Re: Speed of IDE controllers in DS10 ?n+ Message-ID: <bbn8ik$ug4@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>>  5 "John Travell" <john@travell.uk.net> wrote in message>/ news:bbn77e$b4t8q$1@ID-120847.news.dfncis.de...l  N > SCSI is not really my area of expertise, what is this LVD stuff that seems a0 > feature of some of the converters from Acard ?  J Low Voltage Differential. Traditional differential (HVD) has died off, andI the high end is moving from single ended to LVD. But if you upgraded youreF system with a high end SCSI controller, you probably wouldn't be using IDE drives.O   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2003 12:20:10 GMTl( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)/ Subject: Re: Speed of IDE controllers in DS10 ?n5 Message-ID: <bbnchp$bhe04$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>P  + In article <bbn8ik$ug4@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>,x- 	"Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk> writes:r > H >                           Traditional differential (HVD) has died off  >   C So, does this mean somebody here has a stack og HVD disks they wantoA to get rid of?  I still have a machine with an HVD card and coulddE use a couple of your cast-offs, no matter how small they seem to you.i   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   s   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 14:10:04 +0100* From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>/ Subject: Re: Speed of IDE controllers in DS10 ?3+ Message-ID: <bbnffc$ubu@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>s  5 "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote in messageM/ news:bbnchp$bhe04$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de...r  H >>                           Traditional differential (HVD) has died off  E > So, does this mean somebody here has a stack og HVD disks they wantsC > to get rid of?  I still have a machine with an HVD card and couldhG > use a couple of your cast-offs, no matter how small they seem to you.c  J I've never had any HVD disks. In the past I've run differential converters? with single ended disks. To clarify my 'HVD is dead' statement:l  ; When Ultra 2 was released, it provided a way to run LVD andhC to retain compatibility with 'legacy' SE devices. You can't howevertB mix HVD with either SE or LVD, nor is there any Ultra 2 option for2 HVD. And Ultra 2 itself is entry level these days.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 17:22:47 +0100s0 From: Chris Sharman <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam> Subject: VMS SQL clientt4 Message-ID: <bbnqo6$io0$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk>  5 How can a VMS app access an MS SQL database on a PC ?hC Firstly, a 3GL app written in-house, and secondly, Powerhouse apps.    Thanks,e ChrisP   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2003 06:31:39 -0700u& From: xudong_zh@hotmail.com (bighug16)( Subject: What do these Macro codes mean?= Message-ID: <25fe2603.0306050531.4299388e@posting.google.com>t   MOVL	B^4(AP),R2  MOVL	B^16(R2),R4 MOVZWL	B^29(R2),R1 MOVL	B^85(R4),R0
 CLRQ	-(SP)   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 03 08:24:37 PSTd From: mckinneyj@cpva.saic.comt, Subject: Re: What do these Macro codes mean?( Message-ID: <qT4fyCfilsK7@cpva.saic.com>  = In article <25fe2603.0306050531.4299388e@posting.google.com>,a)  xudong_zh@hotmail.com (bighug16) writes:c > MOVL	B^4(AP),R2a > MOVL	B^16(R2),R4 > MOVZWL	B^29(R2),R1 > MOVL	B^85(R4),R0 > CLRQ	-(SP)  G Just entered a subroutine? is this a dis-assembly of VAX code? it wouldr@ appear that the first parameter passed to this subroutine is the! address of some data structure...s  F MOVL	B^4(AP),R2	; first parameter passed to subroutine, stuff it in R2E MOVL	B^16(R2),R4	; take the longword value 16bytes beyond the addresso  			;  now in R2 - stuff it in R4I MOVZWL	B^29(R2),R1	; take the longword 29bytes beyond the address in R2 -h 			;  stuff it in R1F MOVL	B^85(R4),R0	; take the longword value 85 bytes beyond the address  			;  now in R4 - stuff it in R07 CLRQ	-(SP)		; zero out couple of longwords on stack and 4 			; decrement the stack pointer to account for them   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 15:32:50 GMTe; From: "John Gemignani, Jr." <jon-nope@thiswontworkossc.net>i, Subject: Re: What do these Macro codes mean?: Message-ID: <CoJDa.573$Jw6.451015@news1.news.adelphia.net>  * <mckinneyj@cpva.saic.com> wrote in message" news:qT4fyCfilsK7@cpva.saic.com...? > In article <25fe2603.0306050531.4299388e@posting.google.com>,y+ >  xudong_zh@hotmail.com (bighug16) writes:  > > MOVL B^4(AP),R2C > > MOVL B^16(R2),R4 > > MOVZWL B^29(R2),R1 > > MOVL B^85(R4),R0 > > CLRQ -(SP) >"I > Just entered a subroutine? is this a dis-assembly of VAX code? it wouldsB > appear that the first parameter passed to this subroutine is the# > address of some data structure...h >oH > MOVL B^4(AP),R2 ; first parameter passed to subroutine, stuff it in R2G > MOVL B^16(R2),R4 ; take the longword value 16bytes beyond the address? > ;  now in R2 - stuff it in R4-K > MOVZWL B^29(R2),R1 ; take the longword 29bytes beyond the address in R2 -y > ;  stuff it in R1R  5         Take the unsigned 16-bit WORD 29 bytes off R217         and zero extend it (high 16-bits are clear, NOTl8         sign extend -- to an unsigned longword) into R2.  H > MOVL B^85(R4),R0 ; take the longword value 85 bytes beyond the address > ;  now in R4 - stuff it in R0o8 > CLRQ -(SP) ; zero out couple of longwords on stack and3 > ; decrement the stack pointer to account for theme >w  9     The ^B indicates that the offset values occupy a byte1     in the instruction stream.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 08:32:31 -0700# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>n, Subject: RE: What do these Macro codes mean?9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIAEGKHFAA.tom@kednos.com>    >-----Original Message-----f? >From: mckinneyj@cpva.saic.com [mailto:mckinneyj@cpva.saic.com] & >Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 9:25 AM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com- >Subject: Re: What do these Macro codes mean?n >  >d> >In article <25fe2603.0306050531.4299388e@posting.google.com>,* > xudong_zh@hotmail.com (bighug16) writes: >> MOVL	B^4(AP),R2 >> MOVL	B^16(R2),R4a >> MOVZWL	B^29(R2),R1c >> MOVL	B^85(R4),R0e
 >> CLRQ	-(SP)  >eH >Just entered a subroutine? is this a dis-assembly of VAX code? it wouldA >appear that the first parameter passed to this subroutine is thea" >address of some data structure... > 9 >MOVL	B^4(AP),R2	; first parameter passed to subroutine, l >stuff it in R2eF >MOVL	B^16(R2),R4	; take the longword value 16bytes beyond the address! >			;  now in R2 - stuff it in R4 ; >MOVZWL	B^29(R2),R1	; take the longword 29bytes beyond the   >address in R2 - >			;  stuff it in R1,< >MOVL	B^85(R4),R0	; take the longword value 85 bytes beyond  >the address! >			;  now in R4 - stuff it in R0l8 >CLRQ	-(SP)		; zero out couple of longwords on stack and5 >			; decrement the stack pointer to account for them( >o  ! Isn't the content of SP now zero?e   >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.i; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).3A >Version: 6.0.484 / Virus Database: 282 - Release Date: 5/27/2003h >o ---c& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.484 / Virus Database: 282 - Release Date: 5/27/2003   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 03 08:37:58 PST: From: mckinneyj@cpva.saic.comi, Subject: Re: What do these Macro codes mean?( Message-ID: <PDumdf4KvlNH@cpva.saic.com>  x In article <CoJDa.573$Jw6.451015@news1.news.adelphia.net>, "John Gemignani, Jr." <jon-nope@thiswontworkossc.net> writes: > , > <mckinneyj@cpva.saic.com> wrote in message$ > news:qT4fyCfilsK7@cpva.saic.com...@ >> In article <25fe2603.0306050531.4299388e@posting.google.com>,, >>  xudong_zh@hotmail.com (bighug16) writes: >> > MOVL B^4(AP),R2 >> > MOVL B^16(R2),R4a >> > MOVZWL B^29(R2),R1, >> > MOVL B^85(R4),R0e >> > CLRQ -(SP)  >>J >> Just entered a subroutine? is this a dis-assembly of VAX code? it wouldC >> appear that the first parameter passed to this subroutine is thep$ >> address of some data structure... >>I >> MOVL B^4(AP),R2 ; first parameter passed to subroutine, stuff it in R2pH >> MOVL B^16(R2),R4 ; take the longword value 16bytes beyond the address  >> ;  now in R2 - stuff it in R4L >> MOVZWL B^29(R2),R1 ; take the longword 29bytes beyond the address in R2 - >> ;  stuff it in R1 > 7 >         Take the unsigned 16-bit WORD 29 bytes off R2m9 >         and zero extend it (high 16-bits are clear, NOTe: >         sign extend -- to an unsigned longword) into R2. >   G oops, sorry, John is absolutely correct, I should pay more attention to- what I'm reading  I >> MOVL B^85(R4),R0 ; take the longword value 85 bytes beyond the address(  >> ;  now in R4 - stuff it in R09 >> CLRQ -(SP) ; zero out couple of longwords on stack andr4 >> ; decrement the stack pointer to account for them >> > ; >     The ^B indicates that the offset values occupy a byte   >     in the instruction stream. >    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 16:07:47 GMTb; From: "John Gemignani, Jr." <jon-nope@thiswontworkossc.net>t, Subject: Re: What do these Macro codes mean?: Message-ID: <nVJDa.601$Jw6.458058@news1.news.adelphia.net>  . "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message3 news:CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIAEGKHFAA.tom@kednos.com...a >s >! > >-----Original Message-----cA > >From: mckinneyj@cpva.saic.com [mailto:mckinneyj@cpva.saic.com]p( > >Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 9:25 AM > >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com/ > >Subject: Re: What do these Macro codes mean?. > >o > >u@ > >In article <25fe2603.0306050531.4299388e@posting.google.com>,, > > xudong_zh@hotmail.com (bighug16) writes: > >> MOVL B^4(AP),R2 > >> MOVL B^16(R2),R4  > >> MOVZWL B^29(R2),R1l > >> MOVL B^85(R4),R0  > >> CLRQ -(SP)y > >aJ > >Just entered a subroutine? is this a dis-assembly of VAX code? it wouldC > >appear that the first parameter passed to this subroutine is ther$ > >address of some data structure... > >c: > >MOVL B^4(AP),R2 ; first parameter passed to subroutine, > >stuff it in R2mH > >MOVL B^16(R2),R4 ; take the longword value 16bytes beyond the address! > > ;  now in R2 - stuff it in R4.< > >MOVZWL B^29(R2),R1 ; take the longword 29bytes beyond the > >address in R2 - > > ;  stuff it in R1n= > >MOVL B^85(R4),R0 ; take the longword value 85 bytes beyondh > >the address! > > ;  now in R4 - stuff it in R0n9 > >CLRQ -(SP) ; zero out couple of longwords on stack ands5 > > ; decrement the stack pointer to account for themo > >l >e# > Isn't the content of SP now zero?l  3     No.  The SP is decremented by 8 (the Q) and the <     quadword (Q) at that location is cleared.  If the target9     of the CLRQ is a register, then that register and theM>     numerical register following it is also cleared (8 bytes).  /     For example, CLRQ R5 would clear R5 and R6.5  4     If the instruction was CLRQ SP [note the lack of<     indirection] then SP and PC (I think that's the register7     that follows SP, right?) would be cleared.  I don'ta4     believe that your sample code would execute with
     grace.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 16:08:50 GMTd" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG, Subject: Re: What do these Macro codes mean?0 Message-ID: <00A20EE3.B00DE3B2@SendSpamHere.ORG>  f In article <25fe2603.0306050531.4299388e@posting.google.com>, xudong_zh@hotmail.com (bighug16) writes: >MOVL	B^4(AP),R2 >MOVL	B^16(R2),R4  >MOVZWL	B^29(R2),R1l >MOVL	B^85(R4),R0n >CLRQ	-(SP)s    F AP is the Argument Pointer (register R12).  It typically contains the E address of an argument list placed on the stack when a procedure getsiE invoked via the CALLS instruction or, possibly, in some other memory O+ location invoked via the GALLG instruction.n  E When enclosed in (), it says to get the contents of the location thatsE is the current value of the register.  The B^## are offsets from thath "base" address.h  
 Therefore:  C MOVL   B^4(AP),R2       ; MOVe Longword from 4 bytes passed addresss.                         ; in AP to register R2  F MOVL   B^16(R2),R4      ; MOVe Longword from 16 bytes passed address  .                         ; in R2 to register R4  D MOVZWL B^29(R2),R1      ; MOVe Word from 29 bytes passed address in B                         ; register R2 to register R1 as a Longword- 			; Zeroing the high-order bits.  (unsigned)o  B CLRQ   -(SP)            ; CLeaR a Quadword on the stacp (SP is theC                         ; Stack Pointer).  The -() means to predec- B                         ; rement the address by 8 bytes (the Q in D                         ; the CLRQ instructs the processor to do so.    E I'd suggest you get a copy of the VAX Macro User's Guide and read it. C A copy fo the VAX Architecture Reference Manual is also a good readtE to familiarize yourself with the instruction set, address modes, reg-  ister conventions, etc.    --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMg            h5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" T   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 09:31:48 -0700# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>h, Subject: RE: What do these Macro codes mean?9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIEEGNHFAA.tom@kednos.com>    >-----Original Message-----nA >From: John Gemignani, Jr. [mailto:jon-nope@thiswontworkossc.net]d& >Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 9:08 AM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com- >Subject: Re: What do these Macro codes mean?i >f >e/ >"Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in messageS4 >news:CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIAEGKHFAA.tom@kednos.com... >> >> >> >-----Original Message-----B >> >From: mckinneyj@cpva.saic.com [mailto:mckinneyj@cpva.saic.com]) >> >Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 9:25 AMt >> >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coma0 >> >Subject: Re: What do these Macro codes mean? >> > >> >A >> >In article <25fe2603.0306050531.4299388e@posting.google.com>, - >> > xudong_zh@hotmail.com (bighug16) writes:  >> >> MOVL B^4(AP),R2i >> >> MOVL B^16(R2),R4 >> >> MOVZWL B^29(R2),R1 >> >> MOVL B^85(R4),R0 >> >> CLRQ -(SP) >> >K >> >Just entered a subroutine? is this a dis-assembly of VAX code? it wouldhD >> >appear that the first parameter passed to this subroutine is the% >> >address of some data structure...n >> >; >> >MOVL B^4(AP),R2 ; first parameter passed to subroutine,- >> >stuff it in R2I >> >MOVL B^16(R2),R4 ; take the longword value 16bytes beyond the addressr" >> > ;  now in R2 - stuff it in R4= >> >MOVZWL B^29(R2),R1 ; take the longword 29bytes beyond the7 >> >address in R2 -  >> > ;  stuff it in R1> >> >MOVL B^85(R4),R0 ; take the longword value 85 bytes beyond >> >the addresss" >> > ;  now in R4 - stuff it in R0: >> >CLRQ -(SP) ; zero out couple of longwords on stack and6 >> > ; decrement the stack pointer to account for them >> > >>$ >> Isn't the content of SP now zero? >s4 >    No.  The SP is decremented by 8 (the Q) and the= >    quadword (Q) at that location is cleared.  If the targete: >    of the CLRQ is a register, then that register and the? >    numerical register following it is also cleared (8 bytes).  >d0 >    For example, CLRQ R5 would clear R5 and R6. >l5 >    If the instruction was CLRQ SP [note the lack ofo= >    indirection] then SP and PC (I think that's the registere8 >    that follows SP, right?) would be cleared.  I don't5 >    believe that your sample code would execute withl >    grace.e >nI I had forgotten what a clever instruction set it is.  Now that RISC is noV longer1 in, maybe we can go back to the tried and proven?y >h >t >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.s; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).dA >Version: 6.0.484 / Virus Database: 282 - Release Date: 5/27/2003u >  ---a& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.484 / Virus Database: 282 - Release Date: 5/27/2003   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 11:56:08 -0500e' From: Chris Olive <nospam@raytheon.com>y, Subject: Re: What do these Macro codes mean?+ Message-ID: <3EDF7628.5010400@raytheon.com>s   Tom Linden wrote:i >  >>-----Original Message-----B >>From: John Gemignani, Jr. [mailto:jon-nope@thiswontworkossc.net]' >>Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 9:08 AM0 >>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComM. >>Subject: Re: What do these Macro codes mean? >> >>0 >>"Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message5 >>news:CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIAEGKHFAA.tom@kednos.com...a >> >>>o >>>>-----Original Message-----B >>>>From: mckinneyj@cpva.saic.com [mailto:mckinneyj@cpva.saic.com]) >>>>Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 9:25 AM- >>>>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 0 >>>>Subject: Re: What do these Macro codes mean? >>>> >>>>A >>>>In article <25fe2603.0306050531.4299388e@posting.google.com>,a, >>>>xudong_zh@hotmail.com (bighug16) writes: >>>> >>>>>MOVL B^4(AP),R2 >>>>>MOVL B^16(R2),R4e >>>>>MOVZWL B^29(R2),R1k >>>>>MOVL B^85(R4),R0y >>>>>CLRQ -(SP)s >>>>K >>>>Just entered a subroutine? is this a dis-assembly of VAX code? it wouldeD >>>>appear that the first parameter passed to this subroutine is the% >>>>address of some data structure...f >>>>; >>>>MOVL B^4(AP),R2 ; first parameter passed to subroutine,a >>>>stuff it in R2I >>>>MOVL B^16(R2),R4 ; take the longword value 16bytes beyond the address ! >>>>;  now in R2 - stuff it in R4d= >>>>MOVZWL B^29(R2),R1 ; take the longword 29bytes beyond thei >>>>address in R2 -  >>>>;  stuff it in R1e> >>>>MOVL B^85(R4),R0 ; take the longword value 85 bytes beyond >>>>the addressh! >>>>;  now in R4 - stuff it in R0m: >>>>CLRQ -(SP) ; zero out couple of longwords on stack and5 >>>>; decrement the stack pointer to account for themm >>>> >>>G$ >>>Isn't the content of SP now zero? >>4 >>   No.  The SP is decremented by 8 (the Q) and the= >>   quadword (Q) at that location is cleared.  If the targetk: >>   of the CLRQ is a register, then that register and the? >>   numerical register following it is also cleared (8 bytes).y >>0 >>   For example, CLRQ R5 would clear R5 and R6. >>5 >>   If the instruction was CLRQ SP [note the lack ofh= >>   indirection] then SP and PC (I think that's the registerd8 >>   that follows SP, right?) would be cleared.  I don't5 >>   believe that your sample code would execute withw >>   grace.t >> > K > I had forgotten what a clever instruction set it is.  Now that RISC is noj > longer3 > in, maybe we can go back to the tried and proven?s  G Indeed.  I always found myself feeling that VAX MACRO-32 wasn't really uF "assembly language" at all.  Of course on the Alpha, it isn't, but in E VAX days, I always thought it was between assembly and 3GL, such was o (is) the instruction set.    Chrisi -----  Chris Oliver Systems Consultant' Raytheon Technical Services Corporationf Indianapolis, IN  * email: olivec(AT)indy(DOT)raytheon(DOT)com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 12:14:48 -0500t' From: Chris Olive <nospam@raytheon.com>w, Subject: Re: What do these Macro codes mean?> Message-ID: <ZTKDa.3467$c6.3274@bos-service2.ext.raytheon.com>   Tom Linden wrote:  >  >>-----Original Message-----B >>From: John Gemignani, Jr. [mailto:jon-nope@thiswontworkossc.net]' >>Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 9:08 AMe >>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com<. >>Subject: Re: What do these Macro codes mean? >> >>0 >>"Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message5 >>news:CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIAEGKHFAA.tom@kednos.com...i >> >>>i >>>>-----Original Message-----B >>>>From: mckinneyj@cpva.saic.com [mailto:mckinneyj@cpva.saic.com]) >>>>Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 9:25 AMt >>>>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Como0 >>>>Subject: Re: What do these Macro codes mean? >>>> >>>>A >>>>In article <25fe2603.0306050531.4299388e@posting.google.com>, , >>>>xudong_zh@hotmail.com (bighug16) writes: >>>> >>>>>MOVL B^4(AP),R2 >>>>>MOVL B^16(R2),R4  >>>>>MOVZWL B^29(R2),R1  >>>>>MOVL B^85(R4),R0  >>>>>CLRQ -(SP)e >>>>K >>>>Just entered a subroutine? is this a dis-assembly of VAX code? it wouldUD >>>>appear that the first parameter passed to this subroutine is the% >>>>address of some data structure...e >>>>; >>>>MOVL B^4(AP),R2 ; first parameter passed to subroutine,y >>>>stuff it in R2I >>>>MOVL B^16(R2),R4 ; take the longword value 16bytes beyond the address ! >>>>;  now in R2 - stuff it in R4t= >>>>MOVZWL B^29(R2),R1 ; take the longword 29bytes beyond thea >>>>address in R2 -  >>>>;  stuff it in R1t> >>>>MOVL B^85(R4),R0 ; take the longword value 85 bytes beyond >>>>the address ! >>>>;  now in R4 - stuff it in R0w: >>>>CLRQ -(SP) ; zero out couple of longwords on stack and5 >>>>; decrement the stack pointer to account for theme >>>> >>> $ >>>Isn't the content of SP now zero? >>4 >>   No.  The SP is decremented by 8 (the Q) and the= >>   quadword (Q) at that location is cleared.  If the targetn: >>   of the CLRQ is a register, then that register and the? >>   numerical register following it is also cleared (8 bytes).  >>0 >>   For example, CLRQ R5 would clear R5 and R6. >>5 >>   If the instruction was CLRQ SP [note the lack of = >>   indirection] then SP and PC (I think that's the registerl8 >>   that follows SP, right?) would be cleared.  I don't5 >>   believe that your sample code would execute withy >>   grace.y >> > K > I had forgotten what a clever instruction set it is.  Now that RISC is noh > longer3 > in, maybe we can go back to the tried and proven?1  G Indeed.  I always found myself feeling that VAX MACRO-32 wasn't really  F "assembly language" at all.  Of course on the Alpha, it isn't, but in E VAX days, I always thought it was between assembly and 3GL, such was w (is) the instruction set.u   Chris  -----  Chris Oliveo Systems Consultant' Raytheon Technical Services Corporation  Indianapolis, IN  * email: olivec(AT)indy(DOT)raytheon(DOT)com   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 12:24:39 -0400+ From: "Ron Milen" <milenronald@mailbag.net>-Y Subject: Re: Would HP even consider offering customers VMS under Scenarios A, B, or C? Nam! Message-ID: <3edf7332_1@newsfeed>:  E I would suggest anyone interested in this fight look at the followingI article in ComputerWorld:rO http://www.computerworld.com/softwaretopics/os/unix/story/0,10801,81690,00.htmliG Apparently SCO doesn't even own the code its been threatening companiesl8 with.  It appears this will be much adieu about nothing.  	 Ron Milena milenronald@yahoo.com.   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2003 12:16:57 -0500i; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Y Subject: Re: Would HP even consider offering customers VMS under Scenarios A, B, or C? Nae3 Message-ID: <AkGXBCblEzHr@eisner.encompasserve.org>'  O In article <3edf7332_1@newsfeed>, "Ron Milen" <milenronald@mailbag.net> writes:dG > I would suggest anyone interested in this fight look at the following  > article in ComputerWorld:mQ > http://www.computerworld.com/softwaretopics/os/unix/story/0,10801,81690,00.htmlGI > Apparently SCO doesn't even own the code its been threatening companies : > with.  It appears this will be much adieu about nothing.  B    IBM is in the lawsuit.  IBM has good lawyers!  IBM so far isn'tA    acting any any way afraid of what the lawyers from SCO can do.a      I can't get worried.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 09:31:45 -0400l! From: Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu>>Y Subject: Re: Would HP even consider offering customers VMS under Scenarios A, B, or C? Na1' Message-ID: <3EDF4641.49ED9083@vcu.edu>1   Quote   D "Truth is the most valuable thing we have -- so let us economize it.                 -- Mark Twain"   "David J. Dachtera" wrote: >  > John Smith wrote: 
 > > [snip]G > > It may be drivel to some, but the point Dvorak makes - that strangehI > > things can happen in a courtroom, is to be heeded. And strange thingsnJ > > can happen when the parties involved are bullheaded in their own ways. > D > Indeed. Chicago's Mayor Richard Daley ordered the vandalism of theG > lakefront airport Meigs Field claiming to be protecting the city fromPI > "terrorism-by-air". I guess terrorism by an elected official is somehow,J > considered preferable, but I digress. To date, he remains unindicted andJ > unprosecuted - not even arrested. He and his henchmen did the dirty workI > by night, he said, to stave off and prevent "further debate". The statemG > courts have recently lifted stays and injunctions barring the further  > destruction of the airfield. > H > Now, the state legislature has given Daley carte blanche to seize landI > from the suburbs surrounding O'Hare International to expand the airporteH > without compensation or even due process. The suburban electorate (whoI > did *NOT* elect Daley) no longer have a say in the matter by state law,iC > assuming the governor signs it as he is quoted as saying he will.k > H > Strange things can happen in court, even stranger things can happen in > the legislature. > 5 > ...and you thought VMS management was hosed up, eh?r >  > -- > David J. Dachteras > dba DJE Systemsc > http://www.djesys.com/ > * > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    -- aF "4,000 years ago I made a mistake."  Elrond Half-Elven, in "Fellowship of the Ring"   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 13:37:32 GMT12 From: "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@NOSPAMopenvms.org>Y Subject: Re: [OT] Inquirer Article Origins - The Conspiracy Theories. (was Re:  Another fi= Message-ID: <wIHDa.25336$nr.2282514@twister.southeast.rr.com>   7 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in messagei# news:3EDE63EC.19B5F038@istop.com...  > "Doc.Cypher" wrote:WL > > Does *who* the author is significantly influence your opinion on what is > > stated within the piece? >uK > In the same way, I have come to think of CNN as a Bush propaganda machines thatK > is totally biased and thus unreliable. Still tune in from time to time tol seeoJ > what they have to say because it is important to know what the masses in theoL > USA are being fed. Similarly, it is still important to see what Mr Shannon hasSK > to say, but one has to take it with a grain of salt because of suspiscione thatH > he is not free to say what he really wants to say (don't bite the hand that
 > feeds you).a  E You just deep sixed your credibility JF.  Can't resist that politicalh trolling can you?:     -- Kenneth Farmer <>< http://www.OpenVMS.org  G "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is.@ wholly inadequate to the government of any other." -- John Adams   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 14:05:09 GMTe# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>nY Subject: Re: [OT] Inquirer Article Origins - The Conspiracy Theories. (was Re:  Another frE Message-ID: <p6IDa.5314$3Sm.576@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>t  = "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@NOSPAMopenvms.org> wrote in message-7 news:wIHDa.25336$nr.2282514@twister.southeast.rr.com...49 > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in messageR% > news:3EDE63EC.19B5F038@istop.com...D > > "Doc.Cypher" wrote:OF > > > Does *who* the author is significantly influence your opinion on what iso > > > stated within the piece? > >1E > > In the same way, I have come to think of CNN as a Bush propagandat machine, > thatE > > is totally biased and thus unreliable. Still tune in from time toC time tor > seemB > > what they have to say because it is important to know what the	 masses inv > theVF > > USA are being fed. Similarly, it is still important to see what Mr Shannone > haseB > > to say, but one has to take it with a grain of salt because of
 suspiscion > thatE > > he is not free to say what he really wants to say (don't bite thet hand > that > > feeds you).T >t= > You just deep sixed your credibility JF.  Can't resist thatp	 politicalr > trolling can you?S    
 <politics>( I think it's called the First Amendment. </politics>.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 15:14:52 GMT 2 From: "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@NOSPAMopenvms.org>Y Subject: Re: [OT] Inquirer Article Origins - The Conspiracy Theories. (was Re:  Another f:= Message-ID: <M7JDa.25350$nr.2306305@twister.southeast.rr.com>-  J I think it's called "comp.os.vms" not "spew.typical.leftwing.garbage."  ;)  E Besides, he's Canadian, they don't have any 1st Amendment rights.  :)i   -- Kenneth Farmer <><    . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message? news:p6IDa.5314$3Sm.576@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...r >/? > "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@NOSPAMopenvms.org> wrote in messageN9 > news:wIHDa.25336$nr.2282514@twister.southeast.rr.com... ; > > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in messageM' > > news:3EDE63EC.19B5F038@istop.com...6 > > > "Doc.Cypher" wrote: H > > > > Does *who* the author is significantly influence your opinion on	 > what ish  > > > > stated within the piece? > > >uG > > > In the same way, I have come to think of CNN as a Bush propagandag	 > machine0 > > thatG > > > is totally biased and thus unreliable. Still tune in from time toI	 > time tot > > seecD > > > what they have to say because it is important to know what the > masses inm > > theuH > > > USA are being fed. Similarly, it is still important to see what Mr	 > ShannonA > > hascD > > > to say, but one has to take it with a grain of salt because of > suspiscion > > thatG > > > he is not free to say what he really wants to say (don't bite thet > hand > > that > > > feeds you).t > >s? > > You just deep sixed your credibility JF.  Can't resist thate > political  > > trolling can you?l >e >t > <politics>* > I think it's called the First Amendment.
 > </politics>o >t >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 12:48:47 -0400l* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>Y Subject: Re: [OT] Inquirer Article Origins - The Conspiracy Theories. (was Re: Another fue) Message-ID: <3EDF7467.414A3B94@istop.com>p   Kenneth Farmer wrote:sG > Besides, he's Canadian, they don't have any 1st Amendment rights.  :)s  N Please put this back in context. Someone asked me if the name of the author ofL an article in the inquirer would make a difference to how I perceive what is said in the article.  M I used CNN as an example where the source of the material does matter because0@ it has a clear bias. Perhaps I should have used Gartner instead.  I And for the record, in Canada, we have the charter of rights and freedomsiM which does include freedom of expression.  There isn't just one nation in the-N world with such constitutional rights. Besides, such constitutional rights areF useless if a government is allowed to conventiently forget about them.   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2003 08:16:25 -0500n+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)e9 Subject: Re: [The Inquirer] "HP trying to dump OpenVMS ?"23 Message-ID: <g6iGbrFKRMhm@eisner.encompasserve.org>l  [ In article <3EDE969F.5B611733@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:4 > Keith Parris wrote:t >> sx >> "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message news:<OOfya.189646$M81.139495@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>...E >> > without EV8x there is no long-term life for VMS if Itanic sinks.a >> -C >> VMS Engineering is not just porting VMS to Itanium -- it is alsoiF >> taking formerly architecture-dependent functions (like PALcode, the6 >> SRM console, etc.) and moving them into VMS itself. > F > So, Opteron should be less of a challenge if the predictions of some8 > pundits hold true. I admit, I tend to agree with them. >   D 	You certainly don't want to create the infrastructure and spend the@ 	money on developing on a processort that won't cover the gamat./ 	Second, AMD is a very shakey bet these days.     D 	Shame that Wall Street hasn't "seen the Opteron light" and started E 	snatching up AMD shares on the premise that the almighty Opteron is n" 	heading towards world domination:   http://www.marketwatch.com/news/yhoo/story.asp?source=blq/yhoo&siteid=yhoo&dist=yhoo&guid=%7B6FEEE9D5%2D803A%2D4BA4%2D9EB3%2D946C382EE6C9%7D  O Shares of the semiconductor manufacturer (AMD: news, chart, profile) slumped 41 O cents, or 5.6 percent, to $6.87 Monday after Dhanda sliced his rating to "sell"  from "neutral."    [snip]  L Dhanda noted that processor sales have declined an average of 6 percent overN the past seven June quarters, though for AMD the drop has been a more severe 9 percent.  K Dhanda is projecting a 6 percent sequential decline in AMD's processor unitdH shipments in the second quarter, though the actual decline could be even9 greater if demand trends don't improve early this month. t  D 	Where is the Opteron bump?  Shouldn't Opteron be helping out, soon?= 	But wait - the numbers just aren't there.  Even if a modest s; 	success the total number of Opterons sold won't even be ontG 	the radar screen - certainly doesn't make it in that article!  Quick -VB 	snatch up shares of AMD as by the 3rd or 4th quarter when Opteron 	takes off, AMD will zoom!  I "AMD will continue to face an uphill fight in its battle to gain, or even 0 maintain, market share against Intel," he said.   B 	Right.  They haven't the resources or business savvy.  What would 	you expect?   				Rob    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 14:08:57 GMT.9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>h9 Subject: Re: [The Inquirer] "HP trying to dump OpenVMS ?" 2 Message-ID: <Z9IDa.2030$sM2.1750@news.cpqcorp.net>  7 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in messageo# news:3EDE44B0.68F778ED@istop.com...? > Keith Parris wrote:eJ > > The porting effort is being made under the assumption that this is NOT> > > the last time VMS will be ported to a new CPU architecture >|J > Ok, lets *ASSUME FOR THE SAKE OF DISCUSSION* that the engineers complete the K > port to IA64 in mid 2004. Now, before VMS becomes commercially available,eA > Intel announces it is ditching IA64 in favour of a 64 bit 8086.- >-K > How long would it then take to port VMS to either Power or Hammer or eveni	 > Sparc ?e > Could it be done in 1 year ?  J No.  But at the same time your premise is flawed.  Intel won't be ditching IA64.  Nor will HP.l   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 15:23:05 +0100.O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>f9 Subject: Re: [The Inquirer] "HP trying to dump OpenVMS ?"i0 Message-ID: <bbnjoi$9qu$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:9 > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in messagem% > news:3EDE44B0.68F778ED@istop.com...d >  >>Keith Parris wrote:  >>I >>>The porting effort is being made under the assumption that this is NOTs= >>>the last time VMS will be ported to a new CPU architecturew >>J >>Ok, lets *ASSUME FOR THE SAKE OF DISCUSSION* that the engineers complete >  > thei > K >>port to IA64 in mid 2004. Now, before VMS becomes commercially available,2A >>Intel announces it is ditching IA64 in favour of a 64 bit 8086.- >>K >>How long would it then take to port VMS to either Power or Hammer or evenr	 >>Sparc ?  >>Could it be done in 1 year ? >  > L > No.  But at the same time your premise is flawed.  Intel won't be ditching > IA64.  Nor will HP.s >  >   6 If Intel dump IA-64 then HP will have no choice but to give up on it.   Regards- Andrew Harrison-   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 11:05:48 -0400g* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>9 Subject: Re: [The Inquirer] "HP trying to dump OpenVMS ?"g) Message-ID: <3EDF5C4B.FD412F54@istop.com>,   Rob Young wrote:L >         Shame that Wall Street hasn't "seen the Opteron light" and startedM >         snatching up AMD shares on the premise that the almighty Opteron ise+ >         heading towards world domination:@  H Wall Street are totally clueless on IT.  If they own lots of Intel, they" aren't about to start pushing AMD.  N I think that AMD's Hammer/Opteron/whetever-the-name-is-this-week will play outM perhaps next year. Once AMD has a clearly superior 8086, it can then start to K raise its brand awareness. Right now, Intel, because of all its TV ads, hastM managed to position itself in such a way that customers see "Intel Inside" ase< a sign of quality and superior performance for a wintel box.  N AMD has to undo this and make itself look like the chip someone wants in theirR PC, at which point, the wintel assembly folks like Dell and HP will switch to AMD.  - This is going to played out with advertising.g   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 11:26:35 -0400L* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>9 Subject: Re: [The Inquirer] "HP trying to dump OpenVMS ?" ) Message-ID: <3EDF6129.A67845FF@istop.com>a  ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:8 > If Intel dump IA-64 then HP will have no choice but to > give up on it.  J No. For the same reason Sun can run its proprietary Sparc, Digital had itsM proprietary Alpha and HP had its proprietary PA-Risc, HP could simply inherit.F IA64 and develop it on its own for its HP-UX, Tandem and VMS products.  L HP would have no choice, at least in the medium term. What is more likely toL happen though is that HP would quietly pay Intel to continue IA64. This way,M HP would not suffer the PR fiasco of Intel announcing it is abandonning IA64.p   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 17:09:57 +0100fO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>u9 Subject: Re: [The Inquirer] "HP trying to dump OpenVMS ?"d0 Message-ID: <bbnq0u$c3r$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   JF Mezei wrote: * > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: > 8 >>If Intel dump IA-64 then HP will have no choice but to >>give up on it. >  > L > No. For the same reason Sun can run its proprietary Sparc, Digital had itsO > proprietary Alpha and HP had its proprietary PA-Risc, HP could simply inherit,H > IA64 and develop it on its own for its HP-UX, Tandem and VMS products. > N > HP would have no choice, at least in the medium term. What is more likely toN > happen though is that HP would quietly pay Intel to continue IA64. This way,O > HP would not suffer the PR fiasco of Intel announcing it is abandonning IA64.-  3 With what. Most of the engineers now work for Intel   7 HP are trying to get out of the microprocessor businesst4 that was the whole point of convincing Intel to help5 HP develop the Cydrome derived HP-WW (Wide Word) into- EPIC.F  < Early on in the HP-WW project HP reached the conclusion that= they had to find a big spending partner because they couldn'tC afford to do it by themselves.  ; If Intel reach the conclusion that IA-64 isn't economically9: viable then HP without FAB's and engineers is hardly going  to reach a different conclusion.   RegardsR Andrew Harrison	   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.310 ************************