1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 08 Jun 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 316       Contents:; Re: BLASTed directory locks, timing windows & endless loops # Re: CNN Story Not Favorable To Bush # Re: CNN Story Not Favorable To Bush # Re: CNN Story Not Favorable To Bush # Re: CNN Story Not Favorable To Bush # Re: CNN Story Not Favorable To Bush ) Re: CSID value causing problem in cluster ) Re: CSID value causing problem in cluster $ RE: ES40 processor upgrade questions Re: Firewall for VMS / TRU64 Re: Firewall for VMS / TRU64# RE: Here's a commercial for you all # Re: Here's a commercial for you all / Re: Intel 64 bit Pentium seems to be on its way / Re: Intel 64 bit Pentium seems to be on its way / Re: Intel 64 bit Pentium seems to be on its way % Motif 1.3, Euro sign not standard ?!? ) Re: Motif 1.3, Euro sign not standard ?!? ) Re: Motif 1.3, Euro sign not standard ?!? ' Re: OT: CNN Story Not Favorable To Bush  Re: perl question  Re: perl question  Re: Portents of VMS death  Re: Portents of VMS death  Re: Portents of VMS death  Re: SDLT vs LTO tape library Re: SDLT vs LTO tape library
 timezone rule  Re: TLZ07 compaction? $ Re: Using ArcServe to backup VAX/VMS Re: VAX VMS 7.3  Re: VAX VMS 7.3 - follow up  Re: VAX VMS 7.3 - follow up  Re: VAX VMS 7.3 - follow up  Re: VAX VMS 7.3 - follow up  Re: VAX VMS 7.3 - follow up ; Re: When you don't have substance, perception is everything   Re: [OT] best HTML code cleaner?0 Re: [The Inquirer] "HP trying to dump OpenVMS ?"0 Re: [The Inquirer] "HP trying to dump OpenVMS ?"  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  * Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 15:40:06 +0000 (UTC)3 From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> D Subject: Re: BLASTed directory locks, timing windows & endless loops/ Message-ID: <bbvlcl$e7i$1@titan.btinternet.com>    Hi Jim  / Thanks for the info, it was right on the money!   I (Curiously a $search or DIR needs the lock 3 times and a DELETE or CREATE  only needs it twice?)   4 Can you please help with a couple of final issues: -  J 1) I now get told when "something" happens on a given directory and I alsoE check (if the second longword of the LVB has changed) if the file I'm I looking for has arrived, but I need to know when the creation of the file L has completed as opposed to started. So what I'm after is a run-of-the-mill,H missionary-position file-lock. This seems not to be the arbitration lockG that Keith Paris has talked about previously, and is very hard to track L down. (SDA> sh proc/locks Doesn't work 'cos PID is zero. And SDA> show locksI doesn't have any F11B$a locks)  What is the resource name and access mode  for a simple *File* Lock?   J 2) Where can I find the documantation for lck$m_recover and lck$m_protect?H In this instance I don't particularly want to use this functionality butK Kernel mode locks have this annoying habit of surviving image exit and even E if I go th UWSS route my KRNL rundown routine would have to be pretty E sophisticated to track multiple File Watches and $DEQs. How to ensure : housekeeping is done with these locks? Force process exit?  E 3) 'Cos it's Kernel mode, do I have to ensure that my Blocking AST is K $lkpaged in memory so that a need to swap it in won't crash the machine. Am L I getting paranoid? I remember reading in the Hitchhikers Guide (or similar)H about a TSR Calendar and I had an Old BECOME routine (pre-persona systemH services) that used to do this. Does anyone have a handy Kernel mode 101 cheat sheet?   Thanks again for the help!   Cheers Richard Maher   Message 5 in thread 0 From: Jim Brankin (Date: 2003-05-15 02:10:18 PST     The Book ========  C 'VMS File Systems Internals' by Kirby McCoy. It is out of print but F you might be able to pick up a used copy. It is  a bit out of date now! too so you cannot rely on it 100%    The Data Structure ==================  2 The LVB on the serialisation lock can be viewed as   Struct { long fc_hdrseq;              long fc_dataseq;               long unused1;              long unused2;           }   B The first long is incremented when the file header (or headers) isD changed. The second is only used with directories. It is incrementedA when the directory data is changed. The file system uses these to A maintain its caches. When it serialises on a file it looks at the A sequence counter and, if it has not changed since it last had the F serialisation lock, it knows it can use its header or directory cache.D If it has changed then another node has been working on the file and the cache has to be reloaded.    The New File System  ===================   6 This had been mentioned here a few times. For instance  I http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3e3ff9c2%241_2%40hpb10302.boi.hp.com   B The blurb on the planned new file systems book also hints at a new file system.   See   L http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1555582699/qid%3D1052988945/sr%3D11-16 /ref%3Dsr%5F11%5F1/002-1890565-7847252#product-details  + I would be very suprised if it is Spiralog.      - Jim    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 12:18:43 +0200+ From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl> , Subject: Re: CNN Story Not Favorable To Bush5 Message-ID: <bbv2i8$dq6rh$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>   : "leslie" <LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM> schreef in bericht5 news:x1CEa.118658$ui.7441414@twister.austin.rr.com... ? > This story certainly cannot be considered as Bush propaganda:  > E >    http://edition.cnn.com/2003/LAW/06/06/findlaw.analysis.dean.wmd/ L >    CNN.com - Is lying about the reason for a war an impeachable offense? - >    Jun.  6, 2003 > 4 > --Jerry Leslie   (my opinions are strictly my own); >   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for email   K Please turn elsewhere for your political questions. This newsgroup is *not*  the appopriate place.    ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jun 2003 10:06:04 -0500 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) , Subject: Re: CNN Story Not Favorable To Bush3 Message-ID: <MLeIgocQc+tm@eisner.encompasserve.org>   h In article <qSHEa.95770$%e.6404623@twister.austin.rr.com>, LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (leslie) writes:, > Hans Vlems (hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl) wrote: > : 8 > : Please turn elsewhere for your political questions.  >  > It was NOT a question. > 2 > : This newsgroup  is *not* the appopriate place. > :  > @ > Which is why the subject was prefaced with "OT" for Off Topic:   That does not excuse it.  I > The reason for the posting was to counter claims made in THIS newsgroup   - When I was in the Boy Scouts, the saying was:   1 	Leave your campsite _cleaner_ than you found it.    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 14:37:10 GMT + From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (leslie) , Subject: Re: CNN Story Not Favorable To Bush: Message-ID: <qSHEa.95770$%e.6404623@twister.austin.rr.com>  * Hans Vlems (hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl) wrote: : 6 : Please turn elsewhere for your political questions.    It was NOT a question.  0 : This newsgroup  is *not* the appopriate place. :   > Which is why the subject was prefaced with "OT" for Off Topic:  .   Subject: OT: CNN Story Not Favorable To Bush  G The reason for the posting was to counter claims made in THIS newsgroup E that CNN is just a propaganda outlet for Bush or any other faction of  the ruling oligarchy.   ! To get your thread back on topic:   G   It's doubtful that any of us will live to see HP dare risk offending  F   Microsoft by  advertising any non-Windows operating system including-   OpenVMS on CNN or other mass media outlets.   G Long before Ms. Fiorina joined HP, HP failed to advertise its OpenMail  A product, reportedly a drop-in replacement for Microsoft Exchange.     2 --Jerry Leslie   (my opinions are strictly my own)9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for email    ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jun 03 17:34:04 +0200 ) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) , Subject: Re: CNN Story Not Favorable To Bush) Message-ID: <SFm39CaGhFJ$@elias.decus.ch>   h In article <qSHEa.95770$%e.6404623@twister.austin.rr.com>, LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (leslie) writes:  I > Long before Ms. Fiorina joined HP, HP failed to advertise its OpenMail  C > product, reportedly a drop-in replacement for Microsoft Exchange.  >   G FYI I used to use OpenMail, although it was pretty transparent to me (I E just saw it in the mail headers). It worked, and I was offered a free I evaluation a few years ago. I was gobsmacked when HP voluntarily withdrew E it from the market a few months later. Can someone please tell me why  they did that?   --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 16:21:18 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG, Subject: Re: CNN Story Not Favorable To Bush0 Message-ID: <00A21140.EA6CEF14@SendSpamHere.ORG>  U In article <SFm39CaGhFJ$@elias.decus.ch>, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) writes: i >In article <qSHEa.95770$%e.6404623@twister.austin.rr.com>, LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (leslie) writes:  > J >> Long before Ms. Fiorina joined HP, HP failed to advertise its OpenMail D >> product, reportedly a drop-in replacement for Microsoft Exchange. >>   > H >FYI I used to use OpenMail, although it was pretty transparent to me (IF >just saw it in the mail headers). It worked, and I was offered a freeJ >evaluation a few years ago. I was gobsmacked when HP voluntarily withdrewF >it from the market a few months later. Can someone please tell me why >they did that?  >  >--  >Paul Sture   G Why kowtowing to his revered lordship the Emperor of Redmond of course.  --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 09:30:17 GMT " From: Lee <lytmah@telusplanet.net>2 Subject: Re: CSID value causing problem in cluster/ Message-ID: <3EE30229.4D31DD94@telusplanet.net>   B Unfortunately, the advice comes too late.  Due to the inability of@ two of the four production nodes to get into the cluster cleanly8 and service our interactive users, response was becoming= increasingly unacceptable as time wore on Friday morning.  We > made the decision to reboot and renew the cluster.  One of the? nodes which failed to come properly into the cluster had a CSID @ of 400DA.  After the cluster reboot, the nodes in the cluser now= have CSID's in the range 10001 to 10008.  (Three nodes had to  be rebooted twice.)   A I will be very displeased if I found out that your recommendation ; would have resolved our problem without the regeneration of  the cluster.     Paul Sture wrote:   V > In article <3EE056D4.A040B3BB@127.0.0.1>, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes: > > Lee wrote: > >> > > ? > >> Ten other licenses (including DECNET, UCX) failed to load.  > >> ...: > >> %LICENSE-W-NOLOAD, license was not loaded for VOLSHAD= > >> %LICENSE-W-NOLOAD, license was not loaded for VMSCLUSTER  > >> ... > >> > > G > >> Has anyone encountered this problem and resolved it without taking E > >> such drastic steps.  We are a 24x7 operation and even 30 minutes - > >> downtime is not acceptable to the users.  > > G > > I'm not familiar with this known problem but here's some things you  > > could try. > > H > > Modify the licences to /INCLUDE the nodename you want the licence to > > load on. > >  > K > I would agree with that advice. At one point we added a 4100 as a cluster G > member to a pair of 8400s and ran into licensing problems, presumably K > because the 4100 had grabbed some of the 8400 license units. /INCLUDE was  > the solution.  > J > > Use SYSMAN to SET ENV/NODE=abcdef and try LIC UNLOAD asdasdasd and LIC > > LOAD on the node you want. > > I > > Other things to be sure of (may be too late in your case) is that you H > > either use the same shared licence file on all nodes, or the licenceD > > files are identical (have copies of all licences) if not shared. > >  > > Good luck. >  > Ditto. >  > -- > Paul Sture   -- Lee    lytmah@telusplanet.net   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jun 03 17:04:39 +0200 ) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) 2 Subject: Re: CSID value causing problem in cluster) Message-ID: <dfBAPS2onmkP@elias.decus.ch>   T In article <3EE30229.4D31DD94@telusplanet.net>, Lee <lytmah@telusplanet.net> writes:D > Unfortunately, the advice comes too late.  Due to the inability ofB > two of the four production nodes to get into the cluster cleanly: > and service our interactive users, response was becoming? > increasingly unacceptable as time wore on Friday morning.  We @ > made the decision to reboot and renew the cluster.  One of theA > nodes which failed to come properly into the cluster had a CSID B > of 400DA.  After the cluster reboot, the nodes in the cluser now? > have CSID's in the range 10001 to 10008.  (Three nodes had to  > be rebooted twice.)  > C > I will be very displeased if I found out that your recommendation = > would have resolved our problem without the regeneration of  > the cluster. >   C I honestly do not know. I read more about your problem a bit later, E and am not sure my suggestion would have cured it. (Of course I would L have liked to have sorted it, but I assume you are now back up and running.)   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 10:34:02 -0400' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> - Subject: RE: ES40 processor upgrade questions R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB05891D@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----< > From: John Santos [mailto:john.santos@post.harvard.edu]=20 > Sent: June 6, 2003 4:15 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com + > Subject: ES40 processor upgrade questions  >=20 >=20 >=20G > One of my customers is investigating upgrading a pair of ES40's by=20 ? > adding a second processor to each.  Since HP isn't selling=20 A > these any more (or at least 500Mhz versions), they have gone=20  > to a third-party supplier. >=20> > The supplier wants them to find out what the firmware rev=20B > level is on the current processors, because the new ones have=20 > to match.  >=20= > I assume this is a bogus question, since the firmware is=20 @ > loaded from the firmware CD and worst-case, they'll need to=20 > reload the same (or : > latest?) firmware after they install the new processors. >=20? > I think what they really need to know is the hardware rev.=20 @ > level. Is there more than one for 500Mhz ES40's?  If so, do=20@ > they really have to match?  If so, how do you find out what=20: > the rev level is? Can you tell online (SHOW CPU, CLUE=20@ > CONFIG?) or from the >>>, or do need to open up the box and=20  > look at the CPU daughter card? >=20 > TIA. >=20 > --=20  > John >=20   John,   " Re: what cpu/fw level is my Alpha?  + Reference: OpenVMS Version and CPU support- 3 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/supportchart.html   E Also, on latest VMS V7.3-1 version, $ show cpu/full will give you all H sorts of details on the cpu type. Earlier versions do no provide as much detail.    $ show cpu /full  9 [...snip - hopefully format does not get garbled to much]   7 CPU     -  State..........: RC, PA, PP, CV, PV, PMV, PL 7            Type...........: EV4 (21064), Pass 3 or EV4s #            Speed..........: 133 Mhz +            Variation......: VAX FP, IEEE FP             Serial Number..:=20             Revision.......: F001            Halt Request...: 0             Software Comp..: 2.1 (      PALCODE -  Revision Code..: 5.56-01   Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.! Consulting & Integration Services  Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom-     (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s)  OpenVMS DCL - the original .COM    ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jun 03 08:32:16 +0200 ) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) % Subject: Re: Firewall for VMS / TRU64 ) Message-ID: <ZM08wieGqRng@elias.decus.ch>   [ In article <3EE21E29.B8D23032@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:  > Bob Ceculski wrote:  >>  c >> "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3EE14342.152CD897@fsi.net>...  >> > Bob Ceculski wrote: >> > >B >> > > look Andrew, the point is that with VMS you don't need nat, >> >F >> > Um, Bob? The vast majority of what NAT is all about has little orK >> > nothing to do with protection from outside influence. It mostly has to B >> > do with channeling bunches of unroutable addresses (10.x.x.x,L >> > 192.168.x.x, ...) through a single "registered" ("world-wide") address. >> >
 >> > > youB >> > > don't need filters, vpn, stealth or any other unix piece ofI >> > > garbage because as defcon9 and certs prove and as you conveniently H >> > > like to avoid them, VMS already has security! What don't you get? >> >I >> > I sincerely hope you are not in charge of network security where you L >> > work. If such should be the case, however, InstantWhip is in whole heap >> > o'trouble!  >>  F >> you still fail to get the point!  The only thing a firewall is good >> for is DOS attacks  > 1 > Oh, SHIT, Bob! You *ARE* *REALLY* out of touch!  >    Truly flabbergasting isn't it?  / > ... if a vms box were put live without one on I >> the internet, it would fare very well as defcon9 proved, "unhackable"!  > ? > I give up. As Bill Todd would likely say, you *ARE* hopeless!  >   $ Join the club. It gets embarrassing.     --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 11:20:41 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> % Subject: Re: Firewall for VMS / TRU64 ' Message-ID: <3EE36259.6AA46C8F@fsi.net>    Bob Ceculski wrote:  > b > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3EE14342.152CD897@fsi.net>... > > Bob Ceculski wrote:  > > > A > > > look Andrew, the point is that with VMS you don't need nat,  > > E > > Um, Bob? The vast majority of what NAT is all about has little or J > > nothing to do with protection from outside influence. It mostly has toA > > do with channeling bunches of unroutable addresses (10.x.x.x, K > > 192.168.x.x, ...) through a single "registered" ("world-wide") address.  > > 	 > > > you A > > > don't need filters, vpn, stealth or any other unix piece of H > > > garbage because as defcon9 and certs prove and as you convenientlyG > > > like to avoid them, VMS already has security! What don't you get?  > > H > > I sincerely hope you are not in charge of network security where youK > > work. If such should be the case, however, InstantWhip is in whole heap  > > o'trouble! > @ > wasn't there someone on this board a year or two ago that said< > they had a vms box up on the web without any firewall, and> > challenged anyone to break in ... who was that and why don't > we give you a crack at it?  H Already been done. Proved that UN*X-land software ported to / running on- VMS still displays UN*X-land vulnerabilities.   D Wanna try it yourself? Be my guest. I'll be standing by with my cell9 phone to "call the paramedics" when you "crash and burn".   = ...unless you feel that a VMS box running nothing but VMS (no E applications that may have vulnerabilities of their own) is a useful, 7 profitable appliance. If so, then again: be my guest...    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 08:53:48 -0400' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> , Subject: RE: Here's a commercial for you allR Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB05891C@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message------ > From: John Smith [mailto:a@nonymous.com]=20  > Sent: June 7, 2003 7:38 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com . > Subject: Re: Here's a commercial for you all >=20 >=20 >=20? > "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message=20 / > news:SpqJK7AkPQQG@eisner.encompasserve.org... : > > In article <00A20FDD.6AA74389@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>,H > winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")	 > writes: ? > > > In article <3EE12288.6010404@tsoft-inc.com>, David Froble  > <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:  > > >>Lurker at Large wrote: > > >> > > >>: > > >>> The reason our product has the reputation it does?! > > >>> ** VMS ** and VMScluster!  > > >> > > >>H > > >>I figured I knew where this was going.  Then you totally surprised
 > me.  TheB > > >>usual reason users want a particular product is features and > capability, not B > > >>necessarily in that order.  I was thinking that your product > server the needs of G > > >>that industry much better than any other, not what you indicated.  > > >>C > > >>So tell me, without a surperior product, and people, (I don't  > know, you didn'tH > > >>say), why would VMS and VMScluster make the users so much happier? > > >  > > > F > > > I'm just guessing here that ease of management (and fewer people > devoted toD > > > system administration) and high availability over  roughly the
 > same set of H > > > features and benefits are of great interest to taxpayer-funded 911
 > centers,F > > > and that these are supplied by the choice of VMS and VMSclusters
 > rather than  > > > Windows. > > @ > > Whereas _I_ would guess that for the 911 industry, uptime is
 > everything.  >=20 >=20@ > Alan and Larry are both correct.....And in earthquake-prone=20< > areas of high population density, one might include the=20? > phrase "disaster tolerance" in the equation as an absolute=20 G > requirement in any reasonable RFP for a system/application like this.  >=20 >=20   John -  E I would add the word "proven" disaster tolerant solution to your last E statement. RFP responses should be able to provide testimonials where G the recommended solution has responded in a disaster scenario as it was  designed to.=20   ! As an example: (9/11 testimonial) G http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/brochures/commerzbank/commerzbank.pdf    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.! Consulting & Integration Services  Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom-     (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s)  OpenVMS DCL - the original .COM    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 15:03:26 GMT ) From: bob smith <sfmc68@bellatlantic.net> , Subject: Re: Here's a commercial for you all/ Message-ID: <3EE35075.4040107@bellatlantic.net>   E sorry to say unless your sig file is a fake, you might have revealed  C your identity to the world.  youre work link seems to identify the  : company and the write up seems to jive wit hwhat you said. ahem,  bob    Lurker at Large wrote:H > 	Here's an object lesson for HP management (meant in a helpful sense,  > not sneering): > G > 	For those who don't know me, I work for a major DOD contractor.  My  K > particular division is a longtime software vendor of E911 computer aided  L > dispatch software.  Longtime because we've built up a reputation with our F > market over the last 20 years, and dominate the 911 dispatch market.J > 	Our primary product is written in Cobol and Macro on VMS.  A few years N > ago we started another product line to do the same thing but on Windows and N > unix platforms.  I could go on about that, but that's a tangent.  Here's my  > point of posting: D > 	Over the last year we've had several major accomplishments worth  > bragging about.  > Q > 1.  At least two clients who used to run our Cobol product but then changed to  O > a competitor's product finally threw in the towel and asked us to re-install  Q > our Cobol/VMS product.  (In an internal article on one of these events, it was  O > commented that our installation team was specially greeted by the customer's  J > staff.  Someone announced that "XYZ is here", and everyone stood up and 
 > applauded.)  > L > 2.  At the ongoing request of many clients and potential customers, we've I > agreed to resume selling the Cobol/VMS product to new customers.  (Our  K > management stopped for a few years, trying to sell only the Windows/unix  R > product to new customers.)  So this year we're installing our Cobol/VMS product  > at two new, large customers! > J > 	(I'm not naming names because I'm a workerbee who's just proud as heck Q > of her product and company, but I have no authorization to publicize this.  If  Q > HP would like the details, feel free to email me and I can line you up with my  ) > bosses and go through proper channels.)  > I > 	Windows and unix/linux techies sneer and scorn VMS and the "obsolete"  P > stuff like Cobol and Macro.  But our customers love our product and potential P > customers ASK for our product.  Old customers who go away and come back, come  > back vehemently.7 > 	The reason our product has the reputation it does?    > 	** VMS ** and VMScluster! >    ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jun 2003 01:06:22 -0500 + From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) 8 Subject: Re: Intel 64 bit Pentium seems to be on its way3 Message-ID: <N2HBud6FIv4m@eisner.encompasserve.org>   _ In article <_xCdnf5lFIRoOX-jXTWcqw@metrocast.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:  > : > "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message/ > news:j+1v3JCmYhVX@eisner.encompasserve.org... I >> In article <bbnmfb$aqg$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK = > Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes:  >  > ...  > C >> > It would appear that your jibe about Opterons sweet spot being B >> > 4 CPU's is better applied to Itanium which currently based onA >> > the benchmark you chose SPECfp has a sweet spot of 1-2 CPU's  >> > >>' >> Yeah, if you choose the wrong vendor  > ; > The 'wrong vendor' being HP in this particular case, Rob.  >   - 	And your point is?  Time to bash HP - again?    			Rob   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 11:30:05 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> 8 Subject: Re: Intel 64 bit Pentium seems to be on its way' Message-ID: <3EE3648D.25C01D1D@fsi.net>    Rob Young wrote: > a > In article <_xCdnf5lFIRoOX-jXTWcqw@metrocast.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:  > > < > > "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message1 > > news:j+1v3JCmYhVX@eisner.encompasserve.org... K > >> In article <bbnmfb$aqg$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK ? > > Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes:  > >  > > ...  > > E > >> > It would appear that your jibe about Opterons sweet spot being D > >> > 4 CPU's is better applied to Itanium which currently based onC > >> > the benchmark you chose SPECfp has a sweet spot of 1-2 CPU's  > >> > > >>) > >> Yeah, if you choose the wrong vendor  > > = > > The 'wrong vendor' being HP in this particular case, Rob.  > >  > 6 >         And your point is?  Time to bash HP - again?  / I need to speak out onthe "HP bashing" thing...   D So long as hp obeys only the "secret cabal" of VMS customers who areD somehow empowered to dictate VMS policy to the remainder of the user! base, hp is going to be "bashed".   @ When(if) hp figures out how to be responsive to *ALL* of its VMSF customers without slighting the "secret cabal", then - and only then -% we will see an abatement. Not before.    Get over it.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 12:54:36 -0400* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>8 Subject: Re: Intel 64 bit Pentium seems to be on its way2 Message-ID: <Vyudne8TF--19n6jXTWcqQ@metrocast.net>  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:N2HBud6FIv4m@eisner.encompasserve.org... @ > In article <_xCdnf5lFIRoOX-jXTWcqw@metrocast.net>, "Bill Todd"  <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes: > > < > > "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message1 > > news:j+1v3JCmYhVX@eisner.encompasserve.org... K > >> In article <bbnmfb$aqg$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK ? > > Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes:  > >  > > ...  > > E > >> > It would appear that your jibe about Opterons sweet spot being D > >> > 4 CPU's is better applied to Itanium which currently based onC > >> > the benchmark you chose SPECfp has a sweet spot of 1-2 CPU's  > >> > > >>) > >> Yeah, if you choose the wrong vendor  > > = > > The 'wrong vendor' being HP in this particular case, Rob.  > >  > . > And your point is?  Time to bash HP - again?  K No:  you already did that.  I just wanted to make sure that people noticed.    - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 16:48:02 +0200  From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>. Subject: Motif 1.3, Euro sign not standard ?!?2 Message-ID: <bbvik1$o3u$1@news2.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>  Q I just installed Motif 1.3. I did not use the defaults for the installation, and  M so I noticed that the Euro sign support was not installed by default. I just  L wonder why not, is the symbol of one of the most important currencies of no & importance to the Motif developers ???   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jun 2003 10:07:25 -0500 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 2 Subject: Re: Motif 1.3, Euro sign not standard ?!?3 Message-ID: <cmTSPEsm03ro@eisner.encompasserve.org>   S In article <bbvik1$o3u$1@news2.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>, Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> writes: S > I just installed Motif 1.3. I did not use the defaults for the installation, and  O > so I noticed that the Euro sign support was not installed by default. I just  N > wonder why not, is the symbol of one of the most important currencies of no ( > importance to the Motif developers ???  * Perhaps compatibility with prior versions.   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jun 03 17:52:43 +0200 ) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) 2 Subject: Re: Motif 1.3, Euro sign not standard ?!?) Message-ID: <QF8S8rzE9Fcr@elias.decus.ch>   c In article <cmTSPEsm03ro@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: U > In article <bbvik1$o3u$1@news2.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>, Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> writes: T >> I just installed Motif 1.3. I did not use the defaults for the installation, and P >> so I noticed that the Euro sign support was not installed by default. I just O >> wonder why not, is the symbol of one of the most important currencies of no  ) >> importance to the Motif developers ???  > , > Perhaps compatibility with prior versions.    K Not sure about that. IIRC there was an ECO to enable the Euro sign in Motif H in something like the 1999 or 2000 era. At that time I tried it, but theL missing information was which key combination or code one needed to actually use it.   H Fortunately I do not need it, but given the many words written about itsA availability in various release notes, I wouldn't mind having it.    --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 14:58:35 GMT ) From: bob smith <sfmc68@bellatlantic.net> 0 Subject: Re: OT: CNN Story Not Favorable To Bush/ Message-ID: <3EE34F51.6010307@bellatlantic.net>   
 leslie wrote: ? > This story certainly cannot be considered as Bush propaganda:  > E >    http://edition.cnn.com/2003/LAW/06/06/findlaw.analysis.dean.wmd/ L >    CNN.com - Is lying about the reason for a war an impeachable offense? - >    Jun.  6, 2003 > 4 > --Jerry Leslie   (my opinions are strictly my own); >   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for email 
 Thanks Jerry, B I appreciate your use of the OT flag to say this was not directly ' related to VMS, made me read it anyhow.  vr bob    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 14:39:39 +1000U From: "Antony Wardle" <DELETE_THIS_BIT_antony.wardle@DELETE_THIS_BIT_optusnet.com.au>  Subject: Re: perl question< Message-ID: <3ee2be1e$0$26638$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>   Thanks for that.  : I can easily do it in DCL , but as I will have to run thisF frequently, a programme always seems to be much more efficient/faster.  L Plus, its probably about time I got off my butt, and didn't some programming in a language thats not DCL ;-)    I will give it a go.     cheers   kiwi        A "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@mac.com.spamfooler> wrote in message : news:652dd8540b46003b23b7120f2970b48e@free.teranews.com...J > In <3ee25ddf$0$31550$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> Antony Wardle wrote:I > > I am struggling to figure out how to remove the first character off a + > > string I am using in a pattern command.8 > >2I > > Ideally I'd like to see if the first character is a zero, then removet > > it.d > 1 > $ perl -e "$x='01234'; $x =~ s/^0//; print $x;"s > 1234 > C > That says that if the contents of $x match the pattern '0' at theeG > beginning of the string, then substitute everything that matches with G > nothing (or, in other words, remove the matching part of the string).m > D > > The problem I am trying to solve is to read a whole lot of phoneG > > numbers thaat are in a supplied file, then search for occurances of ) > > any of these numbers in another file.  >eC > Perl is ideal for that sort of thing.  You may find that the PerleC > beginners list is a good source of help to get you started.  It's 
 > archived atr >i- > http://nntp.x.perl.org/group/perl.beginnersn >sC > among other places.  You'll probably also want a book; one of the - > O'Reilly Perl books would be a good choice.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 12:27:11 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>l Subject: Re: perl question' Message-ID: <3EE371EF.36418112@fsi.net>c   Antony Wardle wrote: >  > Thanks for that. > < > I can easily do it in DCL , but as I will have to run thisH > frequently, a programme always seems to be much more efficient/faster.  H Careful there - perl is still an interpretive language. Granted as such,H it is still a bit more efficient than DCL for some takes, but it's still interpretive, just like DCL.  N > Plus, its probably about time I got off my butt, and didn't some programming! > in a language thats not DCL ;-)   F I've coded in 3GLs and have hacked some Marco/32 code. There are timesH when non-DCL is unavoidable. For systems work, I've found such occasions/ few and far between, but none the less present.a   -- e David J. Dachteram dba DJE Systemse http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jun 03 09:50:37 +0200u) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) " Subject: Re: Portents of VMS death) Message-ID: <iqqKGJn5s15t@elias.decus.ch>l  h In article <XEBEa.95748$%e.6327713@twister.austin.rr.com>, LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (leslie) writes:& > Paul Sture (p_sture@decus.ch) wrote: > : G > : We are not only forbidden to download software to our PCs, but alsoe+ > : don't have the privilege to install it.o > :  > : > And the people who set that policy never use newsgroups. > 3 > You could reset the local administrator password:s > - >    http://home.eunet.no/~pnordahl/ntpasswd/ * >    Offline NT Password & Registry Editor >    Thanks, but no thanks :-)    -- W
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 11:22:49 -0500e1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>y" Subject: Re: Portents of VMS death' Message-ID: <3EE362D9.E771BC43@fsi.net>e  
 leslie wrote:U > & > Paul Sture (p_sture@decus.ch) wrote: > :eG > : We are not only forbidden to download software to our PCs, but alsoe+ > : don't have the privilege to install it.? > :e > : > And the people who set that policy never use newsgroups. > 3 > You could reset the local administrator password:e  B ...and get reprimanded or fired outright (arrested?) for breaching corporate security policies.   -- d David J. Dachterau dba DJE Systemsa http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/a   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jun 03 18:36:46 +0200 ) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)a" Subject: Re: Portents of VMS death) Message-ID: <LnIf2gY3hgZ7@elias.decus.ch>   [ In article <3EE362D9.E771BC43@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:  > leslie wrote:t >> a' >> Paul Sture (p_sture@decus.ch) wrote:e >> :H >> : We are not only forbidden to download software to our PCs, but also, >> : don't have the privilege to install it. >> : >> ;; >> And the people who set that policy never use newsgroups.  >>  4 >> You could reset the local administrator password: > D > ...and get reprimanded or fired outright (arrested?) for breaching > corporate security policies. >    Bang on the button David!y  N But I should tell you, the really nice thing is that I no longer have to fightL with my PC. If I have a problem, that's what the Helpdesk* is for. They knowG exactly which version of what is installed and where and can fix it fard" faster than I would be able to do.  N As an aside, in the run up to Y2K, my NT colleagues found at least one PC withL something like 8 separate Java installations - one came woth Oracle, another> came with product XYZ and so on. A complete support nightmare.  M * We have 4 Helpdesk numbers - German, French, Italian, English. When there'slI a problem affecting us all, I have found it worthwhile to hit the Englisho or French ones :-)   -- 5
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  * Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 09:18:24 +0000 (UTC)) From: Dan Foster <dsf@globalcrossing.net> % Subject: Re: SDLT vs LTO tape library-3 Message-ID: <slrnbe5vrg.fpr.dsf@gaia.roc2.gblx.net>   X In article <3EDEA1DC.2D580A50@fsi.net>, David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote: > I > As we - and StorageTek - recently learned, VMS will not provide supportSE > for Generation-1 LTO due to blocksize limitation issues and others.s  K That's nasty (but understandable given the cited reasons). Too bad, because B LTO-1 is great stuff -- we run it here, although not on an OpenVMS	 platform.   J > Gen-2 LTO is not here yet, neither is VMS support for it. So, SDLT is it
 > for now.  F That may be true with respect to VMS support for LTO-2 but I wanted toF point out that LTO-2 libraries and drives has been available for a few months now. (Minor nit.)  I And to throw in my two cents on SDLT vs LTO... SDLT looks like technology-I that's more attractive if there were customers with a very large existinge& installed base of DLT tapes and tools.  K Since we'd previously come from using Magstar MP tapes, and had no existing D DLT investment to protect... we just basically dumped the Magstar MP platform and went with LTO.)  K Otherwise, the road-map for LTO looks more attractive over the longer term.l8 At least four generations of LTO sketched out, each withC capacity/capabilities doubling (or better) between each generation.   = For future purchases, we'd probably be looking at AIT or LTO.    -Dan   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 11:41:11 -0500l1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>o% Subject: Re: SDLT vs LTO tape libraryu' Message-ID: <3EE36727.F65F56AE@fsi.net>    Dan Foster wrote:- > Z > In article <3EDEA1DC.2D580A50@fsi.net>, David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote: > >jK > > As we - and StorageTek - recently learned, VMS will not provide support@G > > for Generation-1 LTO due to blocksize limitation issues and others.  > M > That's nasty (but understandable given the cited reasons). Too bad, because D > LTO-1 is great stuff -- we run it here, although not on an OpenVMS > platform.s > L > > Gen-2 LTO is not here yet, neither is VMS support for it. So, SDLT is it > > for now. > H > That may be true with respect to VMS support for LTO-2 but I wanted toH > point out that LTO-2 libraries and drives has been available for a few > months now. (Minor nit.)  G My local borg guys are still surprised at how "immature" is VMS supportrG for fibre-channel, especially FC tapes (support latent and undocumented G in V7.2-2, documented V7.3 and later, but still not quite where we needb
 it to be).  F I'm in a spot right now where I cannot use half of my tape drives, and@ the fix may require a cluster reboot, an event which is not evenB scheduled right now, and may not occur until sometime in mid-July.  K > And to throw in my two cents on SDLT vs LTO... SDLT looks like technology K > that's more attractive if there were customers with a very large existingC( > installed base of DLT tapes and tools.  H We have a vendor who is still at the "TK89" stage, and does not yet have9 SDLT. We can read their tapes, but they cannot read ours.i  F If we had gone LTO (had that even been an option), we'd be even deeper" into the media compatibility mess.   -- e David J. Dachteras dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jun 2003 09:09:55 -0700s' From: rallykarro@hotmail.com (karolina)y Subject: timezone rule= Message-ID: <c8a98246.0306080809.5c5ee264@posting.google.com>y   Hi,a   I got the timezone rules from-E http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/73final/6497/6497pro_007.html. I made a E little program that putenv(TZ=MET-1MET_DST-2,M3.5.0/2,M9.5.0/2). ThishE works fine, but when I start using time functions like mktime() usingC0 the tm_isdst flag in struct tm it tells me that: Running Middle European Time Sun Mar 30 00:00:00 2003 Sun Sep 28 00:00:00 2003  9 Looking a little closer at the rule it actually says thatoE daylightsaving starts at Sun Sep 28 00:00:00 2003(M9.5.0/2 as above).uD That's not right. As far as I know it starts in the late october eg.	 M10,...?!e  A Looking at other timezone rules at the hp.com page I noticed that 1 there are more timezone strings that's not right?fA That it ends at Sun Mar 30 00:00:00 2003 is right as shown above.    Is this a known problem?# What should I do to get this right? A Is there any page that is upto date for the right timezone rules? 1 Where can I find the standard for timezone rules?o   please help!  
 //karolina   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 10:29:15 +0200)6 From: Adolf Sonderegger <adolf.sonderegger@bluewin.ch> Subject: Re: TLZ07 compaction?* Message-ID: <3EE2F3DA.D6A24D8D@bluewin.ch>  " "Scandora, Anthony E., Jr." wrote:  N > I have an old MicroVAX 3100 Model 30 that had an Archive-branded Python, theJ > same drive that Digital resold as a TLZ06.  VMS 6.2 ran the Archive justN > like a TLZ06 except it always had compaction on whether or not you asked forK > it, which was fine with me because it fit a full backup on a single tape.rL > Then the Python died.  I replaced it with a genuine Digital-branded TLZ07,6 > and now a full backup does not fit on a single tape. >aN > Is TLZ07 compaction the same as TLZ06?  I said /media=comp in standalone and; > online backup.  Should I have used a different qualifier?e >0	 > Thanks,.3 > Tony Scandora, Argonne National Lab, 630-252-7541l > scandora@cmt.anl.gov   Hallot  ( TLZ06 can handle 60m and 90m DAT (DDS1).< TLZ07 can Handle 60m and 90m DAT (DDS1) and 120m DAT (DDS2).  G There are tow Qalifiers on OpenVMS/ALPHA V7.3-1: /DENSITY /MEDIA_FORMATw   Commands for a 120m DAT:= $ INITIALIZE/DENSITY=DDS2/MEDIA_FORMAT=COMPACTION tape: labelc: $ MOUNT/DENSITY=DDS2/MEDIA_FORMAT=COMPACTION/FOREIGN tape: $ BACKUP/IMAGE disk:P tape:/SAVE_SET/LABEL=label/DENSITY=DDS2/MEDIA_FORMAT=COMPACTION/BLOCK_SIZE=32256   regards> Adolf Sonderegger    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 06:08:19 GMT 0 From: "Stephen Eickhoff" <operagost@example.com>- Subject: Re: Using ArcServe to backup VAX/VMSaE Message-ID: <npAEa.2286$qd3.1590@tornadotest1.news.pas.earthlink.net>b  : "Shiva MahaDeva" <contracer11@uol.com.br> wrote in message7 news:ddf392ea.0304260858.6c26f157@posting.google.com... @ > Id like to know if any guy haves experience using ArcServe to) > backup VAX/VMS system - its possible ?e  D I have not done it, but there is a VMS agent available as an option.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 12:43:52 +0200+ From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl>  Subject: Re: VAX VMS 7.35 Message-ID: <bbv41c$danng$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>n  9 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> schreef in berichty# news:3EE2361D.51034B32@istop.com...e > Hans Vlems wrote:nL > > The device DKB400 went off line indicating some problem with the device. > K > When I had a SCSI-1 disk, VMS woudl start its boot sequence, but then thelK > device would go into mount verification. A power cycle of the drive would- thenD > fix it and the boot would continue and vMS run happily ever after. > E That is a good idea. What happens is that SAB boots, it shows the two2F informational records that come before the openVMS 7.3 line and next aE message (about the bitmap IIRC). Then some more IO and the CDROM wente	 off-line.   K > Perhaps a power off and power back on of the CD drive after Sa-backup hasu) > complained might have the same result ?  >rF Since SAB runs in memory all it takes is to get it loaded. Once loadedJ properly the (source) device error count does not matter anymore. The nextJ problem is to load the VMS savesets, likely from the same CDROM. Unless heH can transfer the *.% files to a hard disk on another system. Then again,) he'd better put SAB on that disk as well.r  G > From what i was told, it was because VMS sent a scsi-2 command to thef drivedJ > ,to which the drive didn't respond causing the "hang", but that would be resete' > by a power cycle of the drive itself.t  C Yes, that's what I understand from those CDROM discussions as well.t   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 14:37:13 +0100! From: "JK" <jansen7500@zonnet.nl>a$ Subject: Re: VAX VMS 7.3 - follow up1 Message-ID: <1055073886.678271@tbird.introweb.nl>0  9 I received a lot of emails suggesting all kind of things.c (it doesn't work yet).   I'll summarize it.H * Mounting the cdrom. Mount is not supported when booting from a vax-vms cdrom H    (I assume that booting from a cdrom gives you stabackup and not stand alone vms?)=   * Make/model of CDROM player    Matsushita 503-BS  I * Power off cd-drive and/or drives. What is the easiest way doing this onn internal disks and/or cdrom?  E * ARRE and ARWE(?) are also among the issues to consider, and others.c   What does this stand for?   > * Stand alone backup sees all my devices (on both bus A and B)   * Use VMS 7.1 CD-rom.pK    One person informed me that he had the same problem with the 7.3 CD, the  7.1 cd worked fine...nD    I tried with a 7.1 & 7.2 cdrom, but that didn't solve my problem.     (problem is exactly the same),    My VAX VMS 5.5 cdrom did not boot at all.K    My vax 6.1 VMS DOES boot. And it does NOT complain on offline devices or) mount verifications...  3    But I do not know the name of the file to use...l    The command:s0    backup /image dkb400:vms061.b/saveset dka300:    returns a file not found.K    I mounted the cd on an alpha, but I do not know how to search the cd for  files ending on .b  F    I think it must be done using the search command, but commands likeI    search dka600:[0,0]*.b does not work (it only looks in the root of the. cdrom I think)  #    Any help would be appreciated...u  K    I booted with 6.1 and tried to restore a 7.3 saveset. It complains abouth. invalid record type in save set (three times).G   Despite the errors, it tries to restore. I can even boot from the newo disk.dG It asks for the installation cd. And I get the error: medium is offline ! So that did not solve my problem.p  I I it possible to install the 6.1 version and upgrade to 7.3 without usingC
 the cdrom?K Maybe install vms 6.1 on the first disk and within 6.1 install 7.3 onto the  other disk?.< So running two versions on the same machine (not concurrent)     My conclusion so far:r=   My cd-rom player is working (booting 7.3 & 7.2 & 7.1 & 6.1)sG  This setup (machine and cdrom) is used to install Ultrix-vax, so i can.) hardly imagine it's a hardware problem...r  H There is something fishy with vms cdroms 7.1 & after. Maybe these do the3 hanging SCSI command, while older versions doesn't?:8 Btw. vms 6.1 recognises my cdrom as a generic Dk device.! vms 7.x as a Matsushita device...g7 Maybe the problem is the way the drive is recognised...u   Main question for me:m= How can I find the name of the saveset to use on the v6.1 cd?o  % Thank you for all your reactions !!!!@   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 14:09:27 GMTh2 From: Mike Rechtman <michael.rechtman@digital.com>$ Subject: Re: VAX VMS 7.3 - follow up+ Message-ID: <3EE36986.16693D04@digital.com>e  	 JK wrote:1 > ; > I received a lot of emails suggesting all kind of things.o > (it doesn't work yet). >  > I'll summarize it.J > * Mounting the cdrom. Mount is not supported when booting from a vax-vms > cdrom>J >    (I assume that booting from a cdrom gives you stabackup and not stand
 > alone vms?)a >  > * Make/model of CDROM player >    Matsushita 503-B2 > K > * Power off cd-drive and/or drives. What is the easiest way doing this on> > internal disks and/or cdrom? > G > * ARRE and ARWE(?) are also among the issues to consider, and others.n >   What does this stand for?i > @ > * Stand alone backup sees all my devices (on both bus A and B) >  > * Use VMS 7.1 CD-rom.eM >    One person informed me that he had the same problem with the 7.3 CD, theu > 7.1 cd worked fine...wF >    I tried with a 7.1 & 7.2 cdrom, but that didn't solve my problem." >    (problem is exactly the same). >    My VAX VMS 5.5 cdrom did not boot at all.M >    My vax 6.1 VMS DOES boot. And it does NOT complain on offline devices ori > mount verifications... > 5 >    But I do not know the name of the file to use...  >    The command:l2 >    backup /image dkb400:vms061.b/saveset dka300: >    returns a file not found.M >    I mounted the cd on an alpha, but I do not know how to search the cd forl > files ending on .b > H >    I think it must be done using the search command, but commands likeK >    search dka600:[0,0]*.b does not work (it only looks in the root of thee > cdrom I think) > % >    Any help would be appreciated...  > M >    I booted with 6.1 and tried to restore a 7.3 saveset. It complains about.0 > invalid record type in save set (three times).I >   Despite the errors, it tries to restore. I can even boot from the new  > disk.mI > It asks for the installation cd. And I get the error: medium is offlinen# > So that did not solve my problem.i > K > I it possible to install the 6.1 version and upgrade to 7.3 without usings > the cdrom?M > Maybe install vms 6.1 on the first disk and within 6.1 install 7.3 onto the 
 > other disk? > > So running two versions on the same machine (not concurrent) >  > My conclusion so far:d? >   My cd-rom player is working (booting 7.3 & 7.2 & 7.1 & 6.1)iI >  This setup (machine and cdrom) is used to install Ultrix-vax, so i canl+ > hardly imagine it's a hardware problem...i > J > There is something fishy with vms cdroms 7.1 & after. Maybe these do the5 > hanging SCSI command, while older versions doesn't?o: > Btw. vms 6.1 recognises my cdrom as a generic Dk device.# > vms 7.x as a Matsushita device...,9 > Maybe the problem is the way the drive is recognised...w >  > Main question for me:c? > How can I find the name of the saveset to use on the v6.1 cd?t > ' > Thank you for all your reactions !!!!a  E Try booting a VAX OpenVMS installation CD from SYS1. IIRC this shouldi giveF a DCL prompt (on a CD later than V6.2) & you can try copying files off the CD.l   Mike -- tE ---------------------------------------------------------------------vE Usual disclaimer: All opinions are mine alone, perhaps not even that.,? Mike Rechtman                            *rechtman@tzora.co.il* F Kibbutz Tzor'a.                          Voice (home): 972-2-9908337  B   "20% of a job takes 80% of the time, the rest takes another 80%"E ---------------------------------------------------------------------y -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----' Version: 3.1: GCM/CS d(-)pu s:+>:- a++ C++ U-- L-- W++ N++ K? w--- V+++$6 PS+ PE-- t 5? X- tv-- b+ DI+ D-- G e++ h--- r+++ y+++@ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------[   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jun 2003 10:04:42 -0500V- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)r$ Subject: Re: VAX VMS 7.3 - follow up3 Message-ID: <SJpNBpkiXWDf@eisner.encompasserve.org>s  U In article <1055073886.678271@tbird.introweb.nl>, "JK" <jansen7500@zonnet.nl> writes:4  J > * Mounting the cdrom. Mount is not supported when booting from a vax-vms > cdrommJ >    (I assume that booting from a cdrom gives you stabackup and not stand
 > alone vms?)   ? You can get to a DCL prompt booting from an abnormal root (E?).    >    The command: 2 >    backup /image dkb400:vms061.b/saveset dka300: >    returns a file not found.   Try :      backup /image dkb400:[000000]vms061.b/saveset dka300:   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jun 03 17:21:04 +0200 ) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)a$ Subject: Re: VAX VMS 7.3 - follow up) Message-ID: <BgDJV8YWlinj@elias.decus.ch>   U In article <1055073886.678271@tbird.introweb.nl>, "JK" <jansen7500@zonnet.nl> writes:c5 >    But I do not know the name of the file to use...r >    The command:(2 >    backup /image dkb400:vms061.b/saveset dka300: >    returns a file not found.M >    I mounted the cd on an alpha, but I do not know how to search the cd fora > files ending on .b > H >    I think it must be done using the search command, but commands likeK >    search dka600:[0,0]*.b does not work (it only looks in the root of the  > cdrom I think) >   , No, serch looks for text within a file. Try    dir dka600:[*...]*.b  % >    Any help would be appreciated...w >  >  > Main question for me:u? > How can I find the name of the saveset to use on the v6.1 cd?= > ' > Thank you for all your reactions !!!!    The above commahd should do it.h   Met vriendlijke groetjes (sp?) -- d
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 12:23:26 -0500n1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>k$ Subject: Re: VAX VMS 7.3 - follow up' Message-ID: <3EE3710E.2DA94531@fsi.net>n  	 JK wrote:  > ; > I received a lot of emails suggesting all kind of things.s > (it doesn't work yet). >  > I'll summarize it.J > * Mounting the cdrom. Mount is not supported when booting from a vax-vms > cdromiJ >    (I assume that booting from a cdrom gives you stabackup and not stand
 > alone vms?)d  ' Boot from root 1 of the OpenVMS-VAX CD:t  > On most small VAXes (MicroVAX, VAXstation, etc.) and VAX-6000:   >>> b/10000000 ddcu:   ...or...   >>> b/r5:10000000 ddcu:c  " On VAX 7000, it's more like Alpha:   >>> B -fl 0,1 ddcu:C  G "ddcu:" is the "d"evice, "c"controller designation and "u"nit number ofu! the boot device, such as DKA400:.t   > * Make/model of CDROM player >    Matsushita 503-Br  D Hhmmm... I've not seen many reports of much success with "Panasonic"G drives. Most of them were propietary interface back in W3x days and notr SCSI.t  K > * Power off cd-drive and/or drives. What is the easiest way doing this on  > internal disks and/or cdrom?  E Leave the skins off the machine and pull the power connection off thef2 drive. Typically, this is difficult or impossible.  G > * ARRE and ARWE(?) are also among the issues to consider, and others.r >   What does this stand for?s  F These are portions of the SCSI specification where in VMS SCSI drivers> are really picky. They have to do with R/W error reporting and/ correction/recovery, I think. Not 100% certain.   @ > * Stand alone backup sees all my devices (on both bus A and B)  C Well, o.k., but still no guarantees that a device "seen" will "playd nice" with VMS's SCSI drivers.   > * Use VMS 7.1 CD-rom.cM >    One person informed me that he had the same problem with the 7.3 CD, the  > 7.1 cd worked fine...vF >    I tried with a 7.1 & 7.2 cdrom, but that didn't solve my problem." >    (problem is exactly the same). >    My VAX VMS 5.5 cdrom did not boot at all.M >    My vax 6.1 VMS DOES boot. And it does NOT complain on offline devices or  > mount verifications...  # Could be of limited use. Read on...v  5 >    But I do not know the name of the file to use...s >    The command:b2 >    backup /image dkb400:vms061.b/saveset dka300: >    returns a file not found.  8 You need to specify the path as well as the device name:G DBK400:[000000]VMS061.B. See the info at this URL for an explanation ofi VMS file specifications:  2 "VMS Path and File Specification Syntax Explained"6 http://www.djesys.com/vms/freevms/mentor/vms_path.html  M >    I mounted the cd on an alpha, but I do not know how to search the cd fort > files ending on .b > H >    I think it must be done using the search command, but commands likeK >    search dka600:[0,0]*.b does not work (it only looks in the root of thee > cdrom I think)  E SEARCH "search"es for text in a file. You want the DIRECTORY command.   % >    Any help would be appreciated...n > M >    I booted with 6.1 and tried to restore a 7.3 saveset. It complains about"0 > invalid record type in save set (three times).  H There was a change in saveset format between V6 and V7. Not sure exactlyG when it occured. V6.2 BACKUP (unpathced) seems to support it just fine,o7 but V6.1 BACKUP needs a patch to handle the new format.*  3 Your result may be bootable, but is likely corrupt.   I >   Despite the errors, it tries to restore. I can even boot from the newg > disk.c  A The .B saveset "installs" just enough of OpenVMS to "get the balluH rolling". You still need to install the rest of it, which is why it asks for the CD.,  I > It asks for the installation cd. And I get the error: medium is offlinec# > So that did not solve my problem.e  C You could try copying all of the VMS savesets down to a fixed disk.$> Hopefully, you have more than one. If not, you're still stuck.  K > I it possible to install the 6.1 version and upgrade to 7.3 without using  > the cdrom?  H As described above. I don't have a V6.1 CD, so I can't give you anythingE authoritative; however, if you can install V6.1 and get that running,aH you can then copy down the V7.3 savesets to whatever available hard disk; space you have and kick-off the upgrade from the hard disk:c  * $ @SYS$UPDATE:VMSINSTAL VMS073 ddcu:[path]  M > Maybe install vms 6.1 on the first disk and within 6.1 install 7.3 onto theu
 > other disk? > > So running two versions on the same machine (not concurrent)  C Eh, maybe more than you want to do, unless you're REALLY up for the6 challenge...   > My conclusion so far::? >   My cd-rom player is working (booting 7.3 & 7.2 & 7.1 & 6.1)T  D Well, yes and no. It boots. The boot-time driver is fine with the CD" drive. The run-time driver is not.  I >  This setup (machine and cdrom) is used to install Ultrix-vax, so i canq+ > hardly imagine it's a hardware problem...U  G Again, yes and no. No, the hardware is not malfunctioning. However, VMS = SCSI driver support for non-"DEC" CD drives is iffy, at best.p  J > There is something fishy with vms cdroms 7.1 & after. Maybe these do the5 > hanging SCSI command, while older versions doesn't?    Depends how you look at it.   : > Btw. vms 6.1 recognises my cdrom as a generic Dk device.# > vms 7.x as a Matsushita device...t  D There's your big clue right there. "Support" for your drive in V6 isE latent (maybe it works, maybe it doesn't); in V7, the non-"DEC" rules  apply.  9 > Maybe the problem is the way the drive is recognised...a  E Does the driver recognize the response string? The answer is shown in  your results, above.   > Main question for me: ? > How can I find the name of the saveset to use on the v6.1 cd?i  
 See above.  ' > Thank you for all your reactions !!!!-  H Hope you can sort this out. We'd like to see another VMS machine come up
 and run...   -- y David J. Dachterad dba DJE Systemsf http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/-   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 09:31:59 GMTe) From: Andrew Balaam <abalaam@yahoo.co.uk>tD Subject: Re: When you don't have substance, perception is everything4 Message-ID: <20030608.9315900.4188008594@imagnu.geo>  6 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Original Message <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<  I On 07/06/03, 19:20:43, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote regardin=t g=20< Re: When you don't have substance, perception is everything:    6 > Woland <weiland@no.spam.post.cz> wrote in message=20, news:<CFN377787325114236@news.cup.hp.com>...I > > On Fri, 06 Jun 2003 15:19:56 GMT "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote=_ :H > >oI > > > Why does ANYONE accept *"more flexible Linux software"* at face va=r lue,+ > > > and not "more flexible VMS software"?  > >4I > > Maybe because there isn't any. I like VMS and it's features, but man=n y=20 thingsG > > are just easier to setup and run under Linux (please, no flamewar). I > > The second fact is that most of available (free) software on VMS is =t   several,' > > versions behind its Linux brothers.i > >  > > J.  < > but VMS will run any unix/linux app ... all that is needed: > is a port ... so why not just write these linux apps for> > vms?  Why try to reinvent the wheel and improve on something8 > (vms clustering, security, uptime, real time) that you? > can't (unless you use the old Bill Gates/Cutler mica scheme)?   I It depends on the application. Something simple will probably be just a =d  F question of re-compilation. A lot of worthwhile apps need, perhaps,=20I re-writing. VMS is quite different from UNIX/LINUX. for example; Nobody =c  I thinks twice about forking in a UNIX environment - under VMS though, it =-  $ is expensive, and maybe unnecessary.  G VMS has a wealth of features that make programming a pleasurable and=20 H quite productive experience and the documentation (if you have a dead=20H tree version) is second to none. Unfortunately, that is not enough. I=20- think it is true to say that the number of=201I freeware/shareware/expensiveware application available for an operating =t  I system is mathematically connected with the number of installed instance=y s=20, - the more installations, the more software.  I Flexible is an interesting term - at face value it says nothing to me.=20lI After thinking about it for a while, one could say that a lot of softwar=3 e=20H written for both *NIX and Windows is sufficiently flexible to allow a=20C hacker to do nasty things to your computing environment from the=20u* exploitation of buffer overflow bugs etc..   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 14:56:36 +0100t" From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>) Subject: Re: [OT] best HTML code cleaner? ' Message-ID: <3EE34094.6090802@spam.com>u   Martin Vorlaender wrote:  C > My guess is that the installation failed to set up the perl PATH.aA > Try opening a DOS box and start perl there using the full path.fB > On the other hand, IIRC Win32 perl needs some DLLs, so without a$ > proper PATH setting it won't work.   No, its here: C:\Perl\bin\;...  I I did not understand that perl was a "foreign command" so I tried to run n the PPM program.   Typing the command# C:\perl -i_bak demoronize fred.htmln givesm> Can't open perl script "demoronize": No such file or directory+ as there is no demoronize.* in C:\Perl\bin\    D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2003 23:03:29 -0700w& From: Greg Cagle <gregc@gregcagle.com>9 Subject: Re: [The Inquirer] "HP trying to dump OpenVMS ?" / Message-ID: <ve5kf78u8dbsf7@corp.supernews.com>t   Bill Todd wrote:  K > Actually, it would be kind of difficult to do either one unless you couldtG > get back the hardware and compiler engineers that HP gave to Intel.  e  A Who exactly are you talking about here, and what does "gave" mean6 in this context? -- w
 Greg Cagle gregc at gregcagle dot com   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 12:53:02 -0400* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>9 Subject: Re: [The Inquirer] "HP trying to dump OpenVMS ?"m2 Message-ID: <MgmdnYVjo8Fr9H6jXTWcqw@metrocast.net>  3 "Greg Cagle" <gregc@gregcagle.com> wrote in messagea) news:ve5kf78u8dbsf7@corp.supernews.com...- > Bill Todd wrote: > G > > Actually, it would be kind of difficult to do either one unless youS couldtG > > get back the hardware and compiler engineers that HP gave to Intel.  >sC > Who exactly are you talking about here, and what does "gave" meanr > in this context?  J I'm talking about the processor hardware engineers who used to work for HPJ and were reported to have moved to Intel a couple (?) of years ago.  WhileL such people are hardly slaves, like the Alpha EV8 team considering that theyG moved as something of a group one can reasonably suspect that they were<F 'given' away in the sense that an understanding was reached that theirF careers at HP were coming to an end (due to HP's gradual exit from theJ business they were in) and that Intel was prepared to give them a place toJ continue them (presumably working on the same architecture, even - so theyH may have been far less upset about the situation than the EV8 team was).C The absence of such people previously required to sustain processor/K development would seem to make it likely to be difficult just to pick it upp" again as easily as Fred suggested.  L I'm pretty sure that I remember a similar reported move by some (not all) ofI the HP compiler types (again, similar to the situation that happened withmK many of the Alpha compiler people, though like the Alpha hardware engineerssK they didn't get to continue working on the same architecture after moving).t   - bill   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.316 ************************