1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 09 Jun 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 317       Contents: Re: alphaServer diagnostics # Re: CNN Story Not Favorable To Bush # Re: CNN Story Not Favorable To Bush  Re: Firewall for VMS / TRU64 Re: Firewall for VMS / TRU64 Re: Firewall for VMS / TRU64* Re: Halt & Startup Issues with VS 4000 VLCI How to compile/link Fortran for 'portable' executable to down-level OVMS? A JF Mezei "flamed, insulted, denigraded(sic)"!  Oh the humanity!!! E Re: JF Mezei "flamed, insulted, denigraded(sic)"!  Oh the humanity!!! < Re: JF Mezei "flamed, insulted, denigraded(sic)"! Poor baby!8 JF Mezei "flamed, insulted, denigraded(sic)"! Poor baby!) Re: Motif 1.3, Euro sign not standard ?!? ' Re: OT: CNN Story Not Favorable To Bush ' Re: OT: CNN Story Not Favorable To Bush ' Re: OT: CNN Story Not Favorable To Bush ' Re: OT: CNN Story Not Favorable To Bush ' Re: OT: CNN Story Not Favorable To Bush ' Re: OT: CNN Story Not Favorable To Bush ' Re: OT: CNN Story Not Favorable To Bush ' Re: OT: CNN Story Not Favorable To Bush ' Re: OT: CNN Story Not Favorable To Bush ' Re: OT: CNN Story Not Favorable To Bush ' Re: OT: CNN Story Not Favorable To Bush  Re: perl question  Re: perl question  Re: perl question  Re: perl question  Re: perl question  Re: timezone rule  Re: timezone rule   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 01:52:57 GMT 1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> $ Subject: Re: alphaServer diagnostics2 Message-ID: <3EE3E84F.85FF0547@firstdbasource.com>   Jim Strehlow wrote:  > > > What diagnostic tools are available for an AlphaServer DS10? >  - freeware download! >  - on the software tools cd-rom # >  - for licensed purchase from HP?  > @ > We have an OpenVMS AlphaServer DS10 on sofware support but notH > hardware support which "locks up" the operator's console (keyboard and= > mouse) running OpenVMS v7.3 patched up through a month ago.  > * > Thank you in advance for your responses. >  > Jim Strehlow > Data911, Alameda, CA, USA     H Can you give us a better definition of "locks up"  does just the consoleD hang (serial or graphics?) while the rest of the system continues toH function or does the whole system hang (no communications, no processing etc...)   F If the system completely freezes including the console (no <ctrl>P, noD halt button) and the only thing that will clear it is a power cycle,, then you may be looking at a memory problem.  E Change the console to SERIAL, put a laptop using a serial Reflections F session (or any other terminal emulator that will allow you to log theE output to a file) and power cycle the system several times in a row.  : See if it is kicking out any memory or CPU related errors.  % I don't recall which ones are free.       --   Regards,  6 Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 19847 First DBA Source, Inc.    Registered Linux User #261163    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 19:48:18 +0200+ From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl> , Subject: Re: CNN Story Not Favorable To Bush5 Message-ID: <bbvst6$dslen$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>   : "leslie" <LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM> schreef in bericht4 news:qSHEa.95770$%e.6404623@twister.austin.rr.com..., > Hans Vlems (hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl) wrote: > : 7 > : Please turn elsewhere for your political questions.  >  > It was NOT a question. > J You bet it wasn't, but I guess that posting an off topic statement is even! worse than an off topic question.     2 > : This newsgroup  is *not* the appopriate place. > :  > @ > Which is why the subject was prefaced with "OT" for Off Topic:  ? OK, you warned us about the contents; now please stop will you?  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 15:26:28 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>, Subject: Re: CNN Story Not Favorable To Bush) Message-ID: <3EE38DE3.C729ECBE@istop.com>    Paul Sture wrote: K > evaluation a few years ago. I was gobsmacked when HP voluntarily withdrew G > it from the market a few months later. Can someone please tell me why  > they did that?  G Same reason Digital widthdrew its email products: to please Bill Gates.    ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jun 2003 18:50:53 -0000 4 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]>% Subject: Re: Firewall for VMS / TRU64 6 Message-ID: <20030608185053.31452.qmail@gacracker.org>  G On Sun, 08 Jun 2003, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:  >Bob Ceculski wrote:   <snip>  A >> wasn't there someone on this board a year or two ago that said = >> they had a vms box up on the web without any firewall, and ? >> challenged anyone to break in ... who was that and why don't  >> we give you a crack at it?  > I >Already been done. Proved that UN*X-land software ported to / running on . >VMS still displays UN*X-land vulnerabilities.  ( David, WASD isn't "UN*X-land software".   E >Wanna try it yourself? Be my guest. I'll be standing by with my cell : >phone to "call the paramedics" when you "crash and burn".  # Bob run a bastion host? ROTFLMAO!!!   N He's like his company's product, lots of volume, but there's not actually much there.       Doc. --  K OpenVMS.  Eight out of ten hackers                   https://vmsbox.cjb.net K           prefer *other* operating systems.        http://althacker.cjb.net    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 13:47:30 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> % Subject: Re: Firewall for VMS / TRU64 ' Message-ID: <3EE384C2.37AF74B0@fsi.net>    "Doc.Cypher" wrote:  > I > On Sun, 08 Jun 2003, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote: 
 > > [snip]K > >Already been done. Proved that UN*X-land software ported to / running on 0 > >VMS still displays UN*X-land vulnerabilities. > ) > David, WASD isn't "UN*X-land software".    Never said it was.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------   Date: 9 Jun 03 06:56:12 +0200 ) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) % Subject: Re: Firewall for VMS / TRU64 ) Message-ID: <BiNLaDOEUreH@elias.decus.ch>   m In article <20030608185053.31452.qmail@gacracker.org>, Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> writes: I > On Sun, 08 Jun 2003, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:  >>Bob Ceculski wrote:  >  > <snip> > B >>> wasn't there someone on this board a year or two ago that said> >>> they had a vms box up on the web without any firewall, and@ >>> challenged anyone to break in ... who was that and why don't >>> we give you a crack at it? >>J >>Already been done. Proved that UN*X-land software ported to / running on/ >>VMS still displays UN*X-land vulnerabilities.  > * > David, WASD isn't "UN*X-land software".  > F >>Wanna try it yourself? Be my guest. I'll be standing by with my cell; >>phone to "call the paramedics" when you "crash and burn".  > % > Bob run a bastion host? ROTFLMAO!!!  > P > He's like his company's product, lots of volume, but there's not actually much	 > there.   >   H I hereby nominate that as the funniest accurate comment of the month, if not the year :-)   --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 23:58:17 GMT 6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)3 Subject: Re: Halt & Startup Issues with VS 4000 VLC 4 Message-ID: <t4QEa.100189$lL2.949127@news.chello.at>  w In article <01KWRWJWSEI4AOKN0V@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes: J >> Yes exactly, I've seen this behaviour as well. Digital series VT's have' >> never, in my experience, done this.   > C >All of my hobbyist VAX machines have genuine |d|i|g|i|t|a|l| VT320 E >terminals as their consoles.  Most, if not all, show this behaviour.   L Yes, mine too. And not only the original ones, but also the compatible ones. Like the CIT 224, 324, 324+   J And opposed to the described behaviour, mine do send the break at Power-On and not at Power-Off...    --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 16:04:09 -0600& From: "rlfitch" <rlfitch@peakpeak.com>R Subject: How to compile/link Fortran for 'portable' executable to down-level OVMS?/ Message-ID: <000d01c32e09$e6770910$0100a8c0@pj>   ? Need help in creating a 'portable' executable where the program E development is in Fortran on OVMS 7.2 with F90 compiler and then port H (copy) the executable to OVMS 6.2 that has F77 compiler.  I believe thatD the key is in the linking (rather than in the compile) but not sure.   Thanks,  Ransom Fitch   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jun 2003 22:37:24 +0200 ! From: Poor Baby JF <poor@baby.jf> J Subject: JF Mezei "flamed, insulted, denigraded(sic)"!  Oh the humanity!!!9 Message-ID: <X88CD90437780.9417824074@Gilgamesh-frog.org>   + JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote:   O >> > Lighten up man.  I had a smiley after that comment.  It was a poke at your  >> > politics anyway.  > ; >I have been flamed, insulted, denigraded enough on the net    Oh you poor baby!   H Don't worry, your mommy will be along any minute now to take your rectal@ temperature and give you your suppository so you'll feel better.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 03:59:36 GMT / From: "James Oberg" <jamesoberg@houston.rr.com> N Subject: Re: JF Mezei "flamed, insulted, denigraded(sic)"!  Oh the humanity!!!; Message-ID: <ICTEa.14728$lT4.1786771@twister.austin.rr.com>   H To harvest the full value of this forum, I don't want anybody flamed forH their opinions -- I want to see as wide and wild an array of opinions asH possible. But I have no issue with people getting criticized -- not justH corrected, but personally criticized -- for bad facts and logic, becauseK that seems to me a betrayel of the standards that we need for consideration H of opinions that differ from our own. Now, I don't want to argue, I just@ want to register my opinion that Mezei's views are as subject toG argumentation as anyone's, but the factual material he has presented is L trustworthy enough -- and valuable enough -- to pass my filter, or at least,9 not set off any alarms, and I am grateful he shares them.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 17:18:12 -0400$ From: "Jarod" <vidatdotcom@plus.com>E Subject: Re: JF Mezei "flamed, insulted, denigraded(sic)"! Poor baby! 7 Message-ID: <rKNEa.2345$zZ4.56982@wagner.videotron.net>   	 Coq-Ombre    Jarod   8 "Poor Baby JF" <poor@baby.jf> a crit dans le message de3 news:YM7FVA7V37780.9603703704@Gilgamesh-frog.org... - > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote:  > L > >> > Lighten up man.  I had a smiley after that comment.  It was a poke at your > >> > politics anyway.  > > = > >I have been flamed, insulted, denigraded enough on the net  >  > Oh you poor baby!  > J > Don't worry, your mommy will be along any minute now to take your rectalB > temperature and give you your suppository so you'll feel better. >  >    ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jun 2003 23:03:30 +0200 ! From: Poor Baby JF <poor@baby.jf> A Subject: JF Mezei "flamed, insulted, denigraded(sic)"! Poor baby! 9 Message-ID: <YM7FVA7V37780.9603703704@Gilgamesh-frog.org>   + JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote:   O >> > Lighten up man.  I had a smiley after that comment.  It was a poke at your  >> > politics anyway.  > ; >I have been flamed, insulted, denigraded enough on the net    Oh you poor baby!   H Don't worry, your mommy will be along any minute now to take your rectal@ temperature and give you your suppository so you'll feel better.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 15:28:05 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>2 Subject: Re: Motif 1.3, Euro sign not standard ?!?) Message-ID: <3EE38E44.E4D9111A@istop.com>   M Considering Motif is now at 2.1, does version 1.3 predate the creation of the N Euro ? Perhaps this is why it isn't part of it, and must be enabled separately
 as an add-on.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 14:07:44 -0400* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>0 Subject: Re: OT: CNN Story Not Favorable To Bush2 Message-ID: <P7qdnX49uunp5n6jXTWcow@metrocast.net>  6 "bob smith" <sfmc68@bellatlantic.net> wrote in message) news:3EE34F51.6010307@bellatlantic.net...  > leslie wrote: A > > This story certainly cannot be considered as Bush propaganda:  > > G > >    http://edition.cnn.com/2003/LAW/06/06/findlaw.analysis.dean.wmd/ C > >    CNN.com - Is lying about the reason for a war an impeachable 
 offense? - > >    Jun.  6, 2003 > > 6 > > --Jerry Leslie   (my opinions are strictly my own)= > >   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for email  > Thanks Jerry, C > I appreciate your use of the OT flag to say this was not directly ) > related to VMS, made me read it anyhow.   K Same for me.  And I tend to suspect that CNN may just be more pro-war (it's D newsworthy as all get-out) than pro-Bush - not that I consider being; pro-anything to be a desirable attribute of the news media.   L Now that the war is over, controversy about its basis has become newsworthy.L *That* actually *is* the kind of thing they're supposed to be interested in, according to our Constitution.   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 18:26:23 GMT ) From: bob smith <sfmc68@bellatlantic.net> 0 Subject: Re: OT: CNN Story Not Favorable To Bush/ Message-ID: <3EE38006.9010905@bellatlantic.net>    Bill Todd wrote:8 > "bob smith" <sfmc68@bellatlantic.net> wrote in message+ > news:3EE34F51.6010307@bellatlantic.net...  >  >>leslie wrote:  >>@ >>>This story certainly cannot be considered as Bush propaganda: >>> F >>>   http://edition.cnn.com/2003/LAW/06/06/findlaw.analysis.dean.wmd/B >>>   CNN.com - Is lying about the reason for a war an impeachable >> > offense? - >  >>>   Jun.  6, 2003  >>> 5 >>>--Jerry Leslie   (my opinions are strictly my own) < >>>  Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for email >> >>Thanks Jerry, C >>I appreciate your use of the OT flag to say this was not directly ) >>related to VMS, made me read it anyhow.  >  > M > Same for me.  And I tend to suspect that CNN may just be more pro-war (it's F > newsworthy as all get-out) than pro-Bush - not that I consider being= > pro-anything to be a desirable attribute of the news media.  > N > Now that the war is over, controversy about its basis has become newsworthy.N > *That* actually *is* the kind of thing they're supposed to be interested in,  > according to our Constitution. >  > - bill > H and if you look at the washington post, not the best paper all the time  imho, E but today Mr. Pincus nad company seem to hve a very balanced article.   I I guess we are in the same boat, I think we are obligated as citizens to  E be critical of politicians, just as we are of company management, or  E Miss Management. I don't think this is relegated to the US either, I  ? think every country and every citizen should have the right to  H criticize, complain aobut, or grumble about government or business.  In ; the states, I believe it is both an obligation and a sport.   I I was and continue to be critical of the DEC choices of what products to  H pursue, what products to end of life, but have to admit much as it runs F against my grain, VMS does have superior reliablity, availablity, and I relatively robust functionality.  I freely admit to being a TOPS20 bigot  > first and foremost, but vms is so easy to use in a production H environemnt.  I don't recall ever getting the blue screed of death with F vms. I do recall making RSX or RSTS compute bound and having the Tops ' chess game disconnect my little pdp8...      >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 15:41:13 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>0 Subject: Re: OT: CNN Story Not Favorable To Bush) Message-ID: <3EE39157.E54AFF93@istop.com>    bob smith wrote:@ > think every country and every citizen should have the right toI > criticize, complain aobut, or grumble about government or business.  In = > the states, I believe it is both an obligation and a sport.    Think Dixie Chicks.   L (For those who do not know, many radio stations in the USA banned the payingK of their songs after the Dixie Chicks became unpatriotic by criticising the M bush decision to invade another country). This type of behavious was repeated  over and over again.  I Interesting that outside the USA, it was well reported that the so called K evidence was bogus, so it isn't as if the information wasn't there. The USA N media chose not to show that side of the story. Would have been unpatriotic to! criticise a president during war.   J What I do not understand of the system of a nation that pretends to be theK most democratic is that it tolerates that the sole oppposition party can be L without a leader of the party during the tenure of the government, and it is7 only before the next election that they elect a leader.   F The democrats are as guilty as Bush because they blindly supported hisM invasion (for fear of being undemocratic if they were seen criticising Bush's N war). When the whole world (except UK) is against you, there is something veryJ wrong when the opposition party is effectively silenced, when the media isN silenced and everyone finds refuge by making fun of the french, making it look* like only the french opposed the invasion.  L I had often wondered why germans didn't rise up against Hittler to throw himL out. But the recent events in the USA tell me that a good propaganda machineH can truly hypnotyse a nation and its media to render them ineffective at blocking your plans.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 15:19:36 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>0 Subject: Re: OT: CNN Story Not Favorable To Bush) Message-ID: <3EE38C48.89CD4FC1@istop.com>   
 leslie wrote: L >    CNN.com - Is lying about the reason for a war an impeachable offense? - >    Jun.  6, 2003    I Unless the USA media start to hound the presidency like they did when the K former president had sex, unless the opposition to the republicans start to K oppose Bush (kudos to the only democrat candidate capable of standing up to M Bush), then this is still a demagog project wrapped in the USA patriotic flag # in the name of defending americans.   L Weher was the USA media when Bush Jr was clearly lying in its speeches priorK to the war ? There are many instances where Bush would say things that were 	 not true.   N For instance, when the USA asked NATO to defend Turkey,  Bush claimed that theM vast majority of NATO countries supported his invasion of Iraq.  But the fact K is that the majority of NATO countries supported the principle of defending A Turkey should Iraq attack Turkey because of the illegal invasion.   M Yet, none of the USA media pointed to this lie, and instead repeated over and C over his statement of the majority of NATO supporting his invasion.    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 22:19:33 GMT ) From: bob smith <sfmc68@bellatlantic.net> 0 Subject: Re: OT: CNN Story Not Favorable To Bush/ Message-ID: <3EE3B6AD.5060901@bellatlantic.net>    Now this post of yours...  well that is a different story. I I did not and do not like clitton, he has lied to the public, lied under   oath, and is a pervaricator.@ The sex issue is not the key element, it is the lies under oath.I Bush has a phenominal vocabulary. English being such a dynamic language,  G I enjoy his speeches, but I do have to make notes in my dictionary for  0 all the words he uses that I can not find there.     JF Mezei wrote:  > leslie wrote:  > L >>   CNN.com - Is lying about the reason for a war an impeachable offense? - >>   Jun.  6, 2003 >  >  > K > Unless the USA media start to hound the presidency like they did when the M > former president had sex, unless the opposition to the republicans start to M > oppose Bush (kudos to the only democrat candidate capable of standing up to O > Bush), then this is still a demagog project wrapped in the USA patriotic flag % > in the name of defending americans.  > N > Weher was the USA media when Bush Jr was clearly lying in its speeches priorM > to the war ? There are many instances where Bush would say things that were  > not true.  > P > For instance, when the USA asked NATO to defend Turkey,  Bush claimed that theO > vast majority of NATO countries supported his invasion of Iraq.  But the fact M > is that the majority of NATO countries supported the principle of defending C > Turkey should Iraq attack Turkey because of the illegal invasion.  > O > Yet, none of the USA media pointed to this lie, and instead repeated over and E > over his statement of the majority of NATO supporting his invasion.    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 21:13:09 GMT 2 From: "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@NOSPAMopenvms.org>0 Subject: Re: OT: CNN Story Not Favorable To Bush= Message-ID: <FFNEa.32350$nr.3550645@twister.southeast.rr.com>    Troll.   -- Kenneth Farmer <>< http://www.OpenVMS.org http://dcl.OpenVMS.org  G "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is @ wholly inadequate to the government of any other." -- John Adams          7 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message # news:3EE39157.E54AFF93@istop.com...  > bob smith wrote:B > > think every country and every citizen should have the right toK > > criticize, complain aobut, or grumble about government or business.  In ? > > the states, I believe it is both an obligation and a sport.  >  > Think Dixie Chicks.  > G > (For those who do not know, many radio stations in the USA banned the  payingI > of their songs after the Dixie Chicks became unpatriotic by criticising  the F > bush decision to invade another country). This type of behavious was repeated > over and over again. > K > Interesting that outside the USA, it was well reported that the so called I > evidence was bogus, so it isn't as if the information wasn't there. The  USA A > media chose not to show that side of the story. Would have been  unpatriotic to# > criticise a president during war.  > L > What I do not understand of the system of a nation that pretends to be theJ > most democratic is that it tolerates that the sole oppposition party can beK > without a leader of the party during the tenure of the government, and it  is9 > only before the next election that they elect a leader.  > H > The democrats are as guilty as Bush because they blindly supported hisH > invasion (for fear of being undemocratic if they were seen criticising Bush'sK > war). When the whole world (except UK) is against you, there is something  veryL > wrong when the opposition party is effectively silenced, when the media isK > silenced and everyone finds refuge by making fun of the french, making it  look, > like only the french opposed the invasion. > J > I had often wondered why germans didn't rise up against Hittler to throw him F > out. But the recent events in the USA tell me that a good propaganda machine J > can truly hypnotyse a nation and its media to render them ineffective at > blocking your plans.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 17:15:30 -0400* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>0 Subject: Re: OT: CNN Story Not Favorable To Bush2 Message-ID: <lCednby0FI7nOn6jXTWcqw@metrocast.net>  = "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@NOSPAMopenvms.org> wrote in message 7 news:FFNEa.32350$nr.3550645@twister.southeast.rr.com...  > Troll.   Asshole.   - bill   >  > -- > Kenneth Farmer <>< > http://www.OpenVMS.org > http://dcl.OpenVMS.org > I > "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is B > wholly inadequate to the government of any other." -- John Adams >  >  >  >  > 9 > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message % > news:3EE39157.E54AFF93@istop.com...  > > bob smith wrote:D > > > think every country and every citizen should have the right toI > > > criticize, complain aobut, or grumble about government or business.  InA > > > the states, I believe it is both an obligation and a sport.  > >  > > Think Dixie Chicks.  > > I > > (For those who do not know, many radio stations in the USA banned the  > payingK > > of their songs after the Dixie Chicks became unpatriotic by criticising  > the H > > bush decision to invade another country). This type of behavious was
 > repeated > > over and over again. > > F > > Interesting that outside the USA, it was well reported that the so calledK > > evidence was bogus, so it isn't as if the information wasn't there. The  > USA C > > media chose not to show that side of the story. Would have been  > unpatriotic to% > > criticise a president during war.  > > J > > What I do not understand of the system of a nation that pretends to be the L > > most democratic is that it tolerates that the sole oppposition party can > beJ > > without a leader of the party during the tenure of the government, and it > is; > > only before the next election that they elect a leader.  > > J > > The democrats are as guilty as Bush because they blindly supported hisJ > > invasion (for fear of being undemocratic if they were seen criticising > Bush'sC > > war). When the whole world (except UK) is against you, there is 	 something  > veryK > > wrong when the opposition party is effectively silenced, when the media  isJ > > silenced and everyone finds refuge by making fun of the french, making it > look. > > like only the french opposed the invasion. > > L > > I had often wondered why germans didn't rise up against Hittler to throw > him H > > out. But the recent events in the USA tell me that a good propaganda	 > machine L > > can truly hypnotyse a nation and its media to render them ineffective at > > blocking your plans. >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 22:16:28 GMT ) From: bob smith <sfmc68@bellatlantic.net> 0 Subject: Re: OT: CNN Story Not Favorable To Bush/ Message-ID: <3EE3B5F4.6060907@bellatlantic.net>   	 Now Bill,  Bill Todd wrote:? > "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@NOSPAMopenvms.org> wrote in message 9 > news:FFNEa.32350$nr.3550645@twister.southeast.rr.com...  >  >>Troll. >  > 
 > Asshole. >  > - billG I don't think we want to jump to conclusions. Ken is entitled to troll  F if he wants to.  There are many bridges here in the states tha do not B have either a toll or a troll. With the unemployment rate rising, G perhaps trolls need jobs too.  I don't know, I just don't want to jump   to a conclusion.  G Now, if Ken was trolling with t he quote from john adams, that is fair. G I have insufficient evidence to say he was using that quote as a troll  H or that he was calling some one a troll or even that he was looking for 3 a troll for abridge.  It is all in how you read it.  vr bob    >  >>-- >>Kenneth Farmer <>< >>http://www.OpenVMS.org >>http://dcl.OpenVMS.org >>I >>"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is B >>wholly inadequate to the government of any other." -- John Adams >> >> >> >> >>9 >>"JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message % >>news:3EE39157.E54AFF93@istop.com...  >> >>>bob smith wrote:  >>> B >>>>think every country and every citizen should have the right toG >>>>criticize, complain aobut, or grumble about government or business.  >>>  > In > ? >>>>the states, I believe it is both an obligation and a sport.  >>>  >>>Think Dixie Chicks. >>> H >>>(For those who do not know, many radio stations in the USA banned the >> >>paying >>J >>>of their songs after the Dixie Chicks became unpatriotic by criticising >> >>the  >>G >>>bush decision to invade another country). This type of behavious was  >>
 >>repeated >> >>>over and over again.  >>> E >>>Interesting that outside the USA, it was well reported that the so  >> > called > J >>>evidence was bogus, so it isn't as if the information wasn't there. The >> >>USA  >>B >>>media chose not to show that side of the story. Would have been >> >>unpatriotic to >>$ >>>criticise a president during war. >>> I >>>What I do not understand of the system of a nation that pretends to be  >> > the  > K >>>most democratic is that it tolerates that the sole oppposition party can  >> >>be >>I >>>without a leader of the party during the tenure of the government, and  >> > it >  >>is >>: >>>only before the next election that they elect a leader. >>> I >>>The democrats are as guilty as Bush because they blindly supported his I >>>invasion (for fear of being undemocratic if they were seen criticising  >> >>Bush's >>B >>>war). When the whole world (except UK) is against you, there is >> > something  >  >>very >>J >>>wrong when the opposition party is effectively silenced, when the media >> > is > I >>>silenced and everyone finds refuge by making fun of the french, making  >> > it >  >>look >>- >>>like only the french opposed the invasion.  >>> K >>>I had often wondered why germans didn't rise up against Hittler to throw  >> >>him  >>G >>>out. But the recent events in the USA tell me that a good propaganda  >>	 >>machine  >>K >>>can truly hypnotyse a nation and its media to render them ineffective at  >>>blocking your plans.  >> >> >  >    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 18:56:03 -0400* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>0 Subject: Re: OT: CNN Story Not Favorable To Bush2 Message-ID: <B4OcnTvTKLuWIn6jXTWcpw@metrocast.net>  6 "bob smith" <sfmc68@bellatlantic.net> wrote in message) news:3EE3B6AD.5060901@bellatlantic.net...  > Now this post of yours...   F One might infer that you meant JF's post, which both Ken's post and my response to it included.  ! > well that is a different story.   : But one which you seem to have chosen not to address here.  J > I did not and do not like clitton, he has lied to the public, lied under > oath, and is a pervaricator.B > The sex issue is not the key element, it is the lies under oath.  L The key element in that other, unrelated affair was whether anything ClintonJ was impeached for allegedly having done had the slightest thing to do withL his conduct running the country (the area that the Constitution addresses in% its impeachment and removal clauses).   # > Bush has a phenominal vocabulary.   & That's one way of characterizing it...  ( > English being such a dynamic language,   Especially as he uses it.   H > I enjoy his speeches, but I do have to make notes in my dictionary for2 > all the words he uses that I can not find there.  H I'm not absolutely sure, but I think we're on the same page about Bush'sL modes of expression - you just may be considerably more subtle than I am, so$ I added a clarifying comment or two.  H My problem with Ken (aside from a bit of disgust arising from his "Don'tK worry - be happy!" VMS and Tru64 Web sites:  he, like Terry, clearly thinks L he knows which side his bread is buttered on) is with his attempt to dismissD JF's relevant comment (in a discussion already clearly identified asI off-topic) with a one-word response.  So responding in kind seemed like a L concise way to convey both my own sentiments and a clear example of why suchK single-word responses do not elevate the level of discourse nor advance the  discussion.    - bill   >  >  > JF Mezei wrote:  > > leslie wrote:  > > C > >>   CNN.com - Is lying about the reason for a war an impeachable 
 offense? - > >>   Jun.  6, 2003 > >  > >  > > I > > Unless the USA media start to hound the presidency like they did when  the L > > former president had sex, unless the opposition to the republicans start toL > > oppose Bush (kudos to the only democrat candidate capable of standing up toL > > Bush), then this is still a demagog project wrapped in the USA patriotic flag' > > in the name of defending americans.  > > J > > Weher was the USA media when Bush Jr was clearly lying in its speeches prior J > > to the war ? There are many instances where Bush would say things that were
 > > not true.  > > I > > For instance, when the USA asked NATO to defend Turkey,  Bush claimed  that theL > > vast majority of NATO countries supported his invasion of Iraq.  But the factE > > is that the majority of NATO countries supported the principle of 	 defending E > > Turkey should Iraq attack Turkey because of the illegal invasion.n > >	H > > Yet, none of the USA media pointed to this lie, and instead repeated over andG > > over his statement of the majority of NATO supporting his invasion.a >f   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 00:59:31 GMT4) From: bob smith <sfmc68@bellatlantic.net>C0 Subject: Re: OT: CNN Story Not Favorable To Bush/ Message-ID: <3EE3DC2C.2000309@bellatlantic.net>u  B We are on the same page, I like a little sick humor now and again.     Bill Todd wrote:8 > "bob smith" <sfmc68@bellatlantic.net> wrote in message+ > news:3EE3B6AD.5060901@bellatlantic.net...d >  >>Now this post of yours...r >  > H > One might infer that you meant JF's post, which both Ken's post and my > response to it included. >  > ! >>well that is a different story.  >  > < > But one which you seem to have chosen not to address here. >  > J >>I did not and do not like clitton, he has lied to the public, lied under >>oath, and is a pervaricator.B >>The sex issue is not the key element, it is the lies under oath. >  > N > The key element in that other, unrelated affair was whether anything ClintonL > was impeached for allegedly having done had the slightest thing to do withN > his conduct running the country (the area that the Constitution addresses in' > its impeachment and removal clauses).-H Hmm, that is a good question, I never read the articles of impeachment, F so I don't know if he was being charged with lying under oath, or for 8 being a lecher.  A truthful lecher can be a good leader.   >  > # >>Bush has a phenominal vocabulary.a >  > ( > That's one way of characterizing it... >  > ( >>English being such a dynamic language, >  >  > Especially as he uses it.a >  > H >>I enjoy his speeches, but I do have to make notes in my dictionary for2 >>all the words he uses that I can not find there. >  > J > I'm not absolutely sure, but I think we're on the same page about Bush'sN > modes of expression - you just may be considerably more subtle than I am, so& > I added a clarifying comment or two.H We are on the same page, I was attempting to be subtle so no one things G I am making fun of a standing president.  There used t obe this saying tE bout if you can't dazzle them with your brilliance, baffle them with tI your......and I am not sure which way he is going on these words I can't t find.d   > J > My problem with Ken (aside from a bit of disgust arising from his "Don'tM > worry - be happy!" VMS and Tru64 Web sites:  he, like Terry, clearly thinkseN > he knows which side his bread is buttered on) is with his attempt to dismissF > JF's relevant comment (in a discussion already clearly identified asK > off-topic) with a one-word response.  So responding in kind seemed like aaN > concise way to convey both my own sentiments and a clear example of why suchM > single-word responses do not elevate the level of discourse nor advance the6
 > discussion.-I JF's comment was and remains most relevant.  The impact of the so called lG patriot act and followon words and actions are an area of interest and uF concern.  Some comment from jefferson that I can't quite recall keeps G coming to mind - something about loosing freedoms a little at a time...4   >  > - bill >  >  >> >>JF Mezei wrote:e >> >>>leslie wrote: >>>  >>> B >>>>  CNN.com - Is lying about the reason for a war an impeachable >>>T > offense? - >  >>>>  Jun.  6, 2003t >>>e >>>a >>>tH >>>Unless the USA media start to hound the presidency like they did when >> > then > K >>>former president had sex, unless the opposition to the republicans starts >> > to > K >>>oppose Bush (kudos to the only democrat candidate capable of standing up  >> > to > K >>>Bush), then this is still a demagog project wrapped in the USA patriotic  >> > flag > & >>>in the name of defending americans. >>>SI >>>Weher was the USA media when Bush Jr was clearly lying in its speechesa >> > priore > I >>>to the war ? There are many instances where Bush would say things that  >> > were >  >>>not true. >>> H >>>For instance, when the USA asked NATO to defend Turkey,  Bush claimed >>
 > that the > K >>>vast majority of NATO countries supported his invasion of Iraq.  But thea >> > fact > D >>>is that the majority of NATO countries supported the principle of >> > defendingw > D >>>Turkey should Iraq attack Turkey because of the illegal invasion. >>> G >>>Yet, none of the USA media pointed to this lie, and instead repeated  >>
 > over and > F >>>over his statement of the majority of NATO supporting his invasion. >> >  >    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 22:30:14 -0400* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>0 Subject: Re: OT: CNN Story Not Favorable To Bush2 Message-ID: <2nWdnZ6dJKqIb36jXTWcqQ@metrocast.net>  6 "bob smith" <sfmc68@bellatlantic.net> wrote in message) news:3EE3DC2C.2000309@bellatlantic.net...f   ...   L > >>I did not and do not like clitton, he has lied to the public, lied under  > >>oath, and is a pervaricator.D > >>The sex issue is not the key element, it is the lies under oath. > >i > >pH > > The key element in that other, unrelated affair was whether anything Clinton-I > > was impeached for allegedly having done had the slightest thing to do. withC > > his conduct running the country (the area that the Constitutionj addresses in) > > its impeachment and removal clauses). I > Hmm, that is a good question, I never read the articles of impeachment, G > so I don't know if he was being charged with lying under oath, or forf > being a lecher.p  G It was for lying under oath, but in a purely personal context which had@K nothing to do with his Presidency (but certainly could have been subject totD normal prosecution - and whether or not a conviction would have beenF obtained, the mere appearance that it had did get him disbarred IIRC).  * >  A truthful lecher can be a good leader.  I So can an untruthful one:  leadership is a great many things, and lack oftD one of them (setting a good example in one's personal life) does not+ necessarily counter-balance all the others.l  J Nixon actively misused governmental agencies (as well as immediate membersL of his Administration) to further political goals and then to cover up thoseJ activities, which certainly constituted impeachable offenses - but even heI had some good points (and he did actively attempt to rehabilitate himself B for the subsequent two decades).  Reagan lied right and left aboutH Iran-Contra (and got his subordinates to do so under oath, though he mayG never have done so himself).  Whether Johnson thought what he was doinghK during the Vietnam War constituted lying to the American public (an offenseoC considerably more serious than Clinton's, IMO) is not clear, but ita* certainly could have been considered that.   ...s  L > > I'm not absolutely sure, but I think we're on the same page about Bush'sI > > modes of expression - you just may be considerably more subtle than Id am, so( > > I added a clarifying comment or two.I > We are on the same page, I was attempting to be subtle so no one thingsa* > I am making fun of a standing president.   Perish the thought!e   ...r  J > JF's comment was and remains most relevant.  The impact of the so calledH > patriot act and followon words and actions are an area of interest andG > concern.  Some comment from jefferson that I can't quite recall keeps I > coming to mind - something about loosing freedoms a little at a time...a  L Well, there's "Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain securityH will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."  And Franklin's similarD "Any people that would give up liberty for a little temporary safetyL deserves neither liberty nor safety."  And Patrick Henry's "Is life so dear,I or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery?sK Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take, but as foro' me, give me liberty, or give me death!"4  G Quite a contrast with what we hear today from our leaders:  they'd moree2 likely lock those guys up as potential terrorists.   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 18:35:13 GMTt4 From: Craig A. Berry <craigberry@mac.com.spamfooler> Subject: Re: perl question@ Message-ID: <509a2e246c854c4a05dd73af6c193151@free.teranews.com>  H In <3ee2c054$0$26636$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> Antony Wardle wrote: > this how my script looks now:n >  > if (open(MYFILE, "file")) {2 >  >          $line = <MYFILE>; >  > print ($line); >  > * > # print ("Enter the search pattern:\n"); >  >  >  > $pattern = $line ; >  > * > I guess I change the above to look like: >  > $line=~s/^0//; > $pattern = $line >  > 
 > sound good?   G If the goal is to strip a single leading '0' from the pattern you have hF read in, then yes, that should work.  It should be mentioned, though, H that an exact string match (particularly of a single character) is only C a "pattern" in the most trivial sense.  It's not clear whether the 8I strings you want to match in the file passed in as an argument are exact  G matches or true pattern matches.  If they are exact matches, the index  E function will be more efficient than regular expression matching. Seen   $ perldoc -f index  I Regular expressions really shine, though, when the matching problem is a eB bit more difficult. For example, if your phone numbers were at an G unknown position in a line of text and had differing conventions about  ? the use of parentheses around the area code and dashes between rB components. For a gentle introduction to regular expressions, try:   $ perldoc perlretuts   >  > print ($pattern);8 >  > $filename = $ARGV[0];  >  > $linenum = $matchcount = 0;  >  > print ("Matches found:\n");f >  > while ($line = <>) { >  >          $linenum += 1;a > % >          if ($line =~ /$pattern/) {s >  > etc. >  >  >  > C > "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@mac.com.spamfooler> wrote in messagea< > news:652dd8540b46003b23b7120f2970b48e@free.teranews.com...E >> In <3ee25ddf$0$31550$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> Antony Wardle r	 >> wrote:II >> > I am struggling to figure out how to remove the first character off s. >> > a string I am using in a pattern command. >> >D >> > Ideally I'd like to see if the first character is a zero, then  >> > remove it.  >>2 >> $ perl -e "$x='01234'; $x =~ s/^0//; print $x;" >> 1234a >>D >> That says that if the contents of $x match the pattern '0' at theH >> beginning of the string, then substitute everything that matches withH >> nothing (or, in other words, remove the matching part of the string). >>E >> > The problem I am trying to solve is to read a whole lot of phone H >> > numbers thaat are in a supplied file, then search for occurances of* >> > any of these numbers in another file. >>D >> Perl is ideal for that sort of thing.  You may find that the PerlD >> beginners list is a good source of help to get you started.  It's >> archived at >>. >> http://nntp.x.perl.org/group/perl.beginners >>D >> among other places.  You'll probably also want a book; one of the. >> O'Reilly Perl books would be a good choice. >  >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 19:32:08 GMT-4 From: Craig A. Berry <craigberry@mac.com.spamfooler> Subject: Re: perl question@ Message-ID: <e9e6cf27bf28f5a81757935776ab7b3a@free.teranews.com>  7 In <3EE371EF.36418112@fsi.net> David J. Dachtera wrote:g > Antony Wardle wrote:  = >> I can easily do it in DCL , but as I will have to run thismI >> frequently, a programme always seems to be much more efficient/faster.  > E > Careful there - perl is still an interpretive language. Granted as oF > such, it is still a bit more efficient than DCL for some takes, but ) > it's still interpretive, just like DCL.   E Strictly speaking, Perl is pre-compiled rather than interpreted, and aH thus not exactly like DCL.  Whether that matters for the performance of > a particular script depends on a number of local factors, and I performance is only one of many considerations when choosing a scripting dA language.  There is a brief list of Perl's advantages over DCL ats  - http://www.sidhe.org/vmsperl/information.htmla   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 09:59:33 +1000U From: "Antony Wardle" <DELETE_THIS_BIT_antony.wardle@DELETE_THIS_BIT_optusnet.com.au>N Subject: Re: perl question< Message-ID: <3ee3cf95$0$13748$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>   once again thanks.  + Its a bit annoying as I know what I want to0- do, but can't figure out how to do it. You'veh  given me some good tips. Thanks.  6 I can now to the substitue of the zero, and use it for5 pattern matching, but only when I parse the file name ; that contains the records of the phone calls as an argument @ to the perl script. I can't figure out how to hard-code the file name and search that.m  E The next thing I want to do is for the perl script to be given a list H of filenames with wild cards, and for it to to pattern matching in that.    + I guess I am missing something fundamental.h     cheers   antony        A "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@mac.com.spamfooler> wrote in messagea: news:509a2e246c854c4a05dd73af6c193151@free.teranews.com...J > In <3ee2c054$0$26636$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> Antony Wardle wrote:! > > this how my script looks now:a > >a > > if (open(MYFILE, "file")) {a > >i > >          $line = <MYFILE>; > >  > > print ($line); > >o > > , > > # print ("Enter the search pattern:\n"); > >- > >- > >- > > $pattern = $line ; > >: > > , > > I guess I change the above to look like: > >u > > $line=~s/^0//; > > $pattern = $line > >  > >g > > sound good?0 >0H > If the goal is to strip a single leading '0' from the pattern you haveG > read in, then yes, that should work.  It should be mentioned, though, I > that an exact string match (particularly of a single character) is onlyhD > a "pattern" in the most trivial sense.  It's not clear whether theJ > strings you want to match in the file passed in as an argument are exactH > matches or true pattern matches.  If they are exact matches, the indexG > function will be more efficient than regular expression matching. Seeu >n > $ perldoc -f index >aJ > Regular expressions really shine, though, when the matching problem is aC > bit more difficult. For example, if your phone numbers were at an H > unknown position in a line of text and had differing conventions about@ > the use of parentheses around the area code and dashes betweenD > components. For a gentle introduction to regular expressions, try: >a > $ perldoc perlretutw >i > >r > > print ($pattern);  > >  > > $filename = $ARGV[0];T > >a > > $linenum = $matchcount = 0;e > >s > > print ("Matches found:\n");c > >n > > while ($line = <>) { > >  > >          $linenum += 1;t > >s' > >          if ($line =~ /$pattern/) {t > >  > > etc. > >a > >  > >s > >cE > > "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@mac.com.spamfooler> wrote in messagea> > > news:652dd8540b46003b23b7120f2970b48e@free.teranews.com...F > >> In <3ee25ddf$0$31550$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> Antony Wardle > >> wrote:tJ > >> > I am struggling to figure out how to remove the first character off0 > >> > a string I am using in a pattern command. > >> >E > >> > Ideally I'd like to see if the first character is a zero, thenv > >> > remove it.i > >>4 > >> $ perl -e "$x='01234'; $x =~ s/^0//; print $x;"	 > >> 1234o > >>F > >> That says that if the contents of $x match the pattern '0' at theJ > >> beginning of the string, then substitute everything that matches withJ > >> nothing (or, in other words, remove the matching part of the string). > >>G > >> > The problem I am trying to solve is to read a whole lot of phoneoJ > >> > numbers thaat are in a supplied file, then search for occurances of, > >> > any of these numbers in another file. > >>F > >> Perl is ideal for that sort of thing.  You may find that the PerlF > >> beginners list is a good source of help to get you started.  It's > >> archived at > >>0 > >> http://nntp.x.perl.org/group/perl.beginners > >>F > >> among other places.  You'll probably also want a book; one of the0 > >> O'Reilly Perl books would be a good choice. > >h > >h > >h   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 04:36:02 GMTu6 From: "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@mac.com.spamfooler> Subject: Re: perl question@ Message-ID: <8deb09d6d62e913112d8f783a011c42f@free.teranews.com>  < In article <3ee3cf95$0$13748$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>,  "Antony Wardle" iG  <DELETE_THIS_BIT_antony.wardle@DELETE_THIS_BIT_optusnet.com.au> wrote:t    G > The next thing I want to do is for the perl script to be given a listiJ > of filenames with wild cards, and for it to to pattern matching in that.  F Read up on glob() or globbing.  The following will give you a listing . of all the .com files in your login directory:  I $ perl -e "@a = glob('sys$login:*.com'); for $x (@a) { print qq/$x\n/; }"o    - > I guess I am missing something fundamental.o  : Yes, you are top-posting and not editing posts at all :-).   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Jun 03 06:50:21 +0200e) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)t Subject: Re: perl question) Message-ID: <Tu+cN$U1NScc@elias.decus.ch>B  [ In article <3EE371EF.36418112@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:e > Antony Wardle wrote: >>   >> Thanks for that.( >> t= >> I can easily do it in DCL , but as I will have to run thispI >> frequently, a programme always seems to be much more efficient/faster.y > J > Careful there - perl is still an interpretive language. Granted as such,J > it is still a bit more efficient than DCL for some takes, but it's still > interpretive, just like DCL. >B  H Yes it is indeed interprative, but from what I have read, it effectivelyF compiles the program when it loads it, so is definitely more efficientD than DCL. In that context, the last time I used DCL on a VAX brought* back memories of just how slow DCL can be.  e <snip>   -- .
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 20:18:16 +0200i) From: Bart Zorn <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl>- Subject: Re: timezone rule6 Message-ID: <3ee37de8$0$49109$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>   karolina wrote:m > Hi,a >  > I got the timezone rules fromdG > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/73final/6497/6497pro_007.html. I made abG > little program that putenv(TZ=MET-1MET_DST-2,M3.5.0/2,M9.5.0/2). ThislG > works fine, but when I start using time functions like mktime() using 2 > the tm_isdst flag in struct tm it tells me that: > Running Middle European Time > Sun Mar 30 00:00:00 2003 > Sun Sep 28 00:00:00 2003 > ; > Looking a little closer at the rule it actually says thattG > daylightsaving starts at Sun Sep 28 00:00:00 2003(M9.5.0/2 as above).dF > That's not right. As far as I know it starts in the late october eg. > M10,...?!n > C > Looking at other timezone rules at the hp.com page I noticed thatp3 > there are more timezone strings that's not right?qC > That it ends at Sun Mar 30 00:00:00 2003 is right as shown above.U >  > Is this a known problem?% > What should I do to get this right?sC > Is there any page that is upto date for the right timezone rules?-3 > Where can I find the standard for timezone rules?9 >  > please help! >  > //karolina  ' Which version of OpenVMS are you using?N  E Assuming that you are in the MET timezone (ST GMT+1, DST GMT+2), the  < correct timezone rule is MET-1MET DST-2,M3.5.0/02,M10.5.0/03  < However, the timezone rule that you see in the logical name F SYS$TIMEZONE_RULE is not (always) the same. The value of this logical D name reflects the actual date/time the next TDF change is to occur. E Currently it is MET-1MET DST-2,M3.5.0/02,M10.4.0/03 because the last oI sunday in october (represented by M10.5.0) is actually the 4th sunday of n8 October (M10.4.0). You will see that the translation of 4 SYS$TIMEZONE_RULE changes after the next TDF change.  8 If you are running DECnet-Plus, you can use the command:  " $ mc ncl show dtss next tdf change   Node 0 DTSSl$ at 2003-06-08-20:15:07.895+02:00Iinf   Status  D      Next TDF Change           = 2003-10-26-02:59:59.999+02:00I0.000  ) To see when the next change will be done.f     Hope this helps,  	 Bart Zorns   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Jun 03 07:03:48 +0200n) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)e Subject: Re: timezone rule) Message-ID: <hT$W9lf8LqMw@elias.decus.ch>i  b In article <3ee37de8$0$49109$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>, Bart Zorn <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl> writes: > karolina wrote:n >> Hi, >> d  >> I got the timezone rules fromH >> http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/73final/6497/6497pro_007.html. I made aD >> little program that putenv(TZ=MET-1MET_DST-2,M3.5.0/2,M9.5.0/2). ;                                                          ^^u( Surely that should be M10 instead of M9?     >> This H >> works fine, but when I start using time functions like mktime() using3 >> the tm_isdst flag in struct tm it tells me that:i >> Running Middle European Time- >> Sun Mar 30 00:00:00 2003  >> Sun Sep 28 00:00:00 2003  >> e< >> Looking a little closer at the rule it actually says thatH >> daylightsaving starts at Sun Sep 28 00:00:00 2003(M9.5.0/2 as above).G >> That's not right. As far as I know it starts in the late october eg.o >> M10,...?! >> VD >> Looking at other timezone rules at the hp.com page I noticed that4 >> there are more timezone strings that's not right?D >> That it ends at Sun Mar 30 00:00:00 2003 is right as shown above. >> w >> Is this a known problem?5& >> What should I do to get this right?D >> Is there any page that is upto date for the right timezone rules?4 >> Where can I find the standard for timezone rules? >> e >> please help!I >>  
 >> //karolina  > ) > Which version of OpenVMS are you using?  > G > Assuming that you are in the MET timezone (ST GMT+1, DST GMT+2), the i> > correct timezone rule is MET-1MET DST-2,M3.5.0/02,M10.5.0/03 > > > However, the timezone rule that you see in the logical name H > SYS$TIMEZONE_RULE is not (always) the same. The value of this logical F > name reflects the actual date/time the next TDF change is to occur. G > Currently it is MET-1MET DST-2,M3.5.0/02,M10.4.0/03 because the last nK > sunday in october (represented by M10.5.0) is actually the 4th sunday of e: > October (M10.4.0). You will see that the translation of 6 > SYS$TIMEZONE_RULE changes after the next TDF change. > : > If you are running DECnet-Plus, you can use the command: > $ > $ mc ncl show dtss next tdf change > 
 > Node 0 DTSS & > at 2003-06-08-20:15:07.895+02:00Iinf >  > Status > F >      Next TDF Change           = 2003-10-26-02:59:59.999+02:00I0.000 > + > To see when the next change will be done.B >  >  > Hope this helps, >    --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.317 ************************