1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 12 Jun 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 323       Contents:; Re: BLASTed directory locks, timing windows & endless loops ; Re: BLASTed directory locks, timing windows & endless loops & Re: CSWB 1.2.1 fails to display images& Re: CSWB 1.2.1 fails to display images& Re: CSWB 1.2.1 fails to display images& Re: CSWB 1.2.1 fails to display images" Re: Dell to make Itanium 2 systems" Re: Dell to make Itanium 2 systems" Re: Dell to make Itanium 2 systems7 Re: Download service for VMS and Tru64 layered products 7 Re: Download service for VMS and Tru64 layered products 7 Re: Download service for VMS and Tru64 layered products 7 Re: Download service for VMS and Tru64 layered products $ Re: ES40 processor upgrade questions Re: Firewall for VMS / TRU64 Re: Firewall for VMS / TRU64 Re: Firewall for VMS / TRU64 Re: Firewall for VMS / TRU64 Re: Firewall for VMS / TRU64- For Sale:OpenVMS Vax and Alpha OS and LP Kits $ Help with 3100/98(was help with VMS)( Re: Help with 3100/98(was help with VMS)# Re: Here's a commercial for you all # Re: Here's a commercial for you all D Re: Hobbyist or EDU license experience with multiprocessor machines?D Re: Hobbyist or EDU license experience with multiprocessor machines?M Re: How to compile/link Fortran for 'portable' executable to down-level OVMS? / Re: Intel 64 bit Pentium seems to be on its way ) Knowledge of VMS tests for job candidates - Re: Knowledge of VMS tests for job candidates - Re: Knowledge of VMS tests for job candidates - Re: Knowledge of VMS tests for job candidates  Re: Legato NetworkerP More X-10 software available.  Examples of intermittent real-time device controlP Re: More X-10 software available.  Examples of intermittent real-time device conP Re: More X-10 software available.  Examples of intermittent real-time device con) Re: Motif 1.3, Euro sign not standard ?!?  Multiple domain names  Re: Multiple domain names  Re: Multiple domain names  NFSv3 + Multinet Re: NFSv3 + Multinet Re: NFSv3 + Multinet' Re: OT: CNN Story Not Favorable To Bush ' Re: OT: CNN Story Not Favorable To Bush  Re: perl question  Re: perl question # RE: PIPE output defined to a symbol  Re: Portents of Itanium death  Re: Portents of Itanium death  RE: Portents of Itanium death  Re: Portents of Itanium death  Re: Portents of Itanium death  Re: Portents of Itanium death  Re: Portents of Itanium death  Re: Portents of Itanium death  Re: Portents of Itanium death  Re: Portents of Itanium death  Re: Portents of Itanium death  Re: Portents of Itanium death  Re: Portents of Itanium death  Re: Portents of Itanium death  Re: Portents of Itanium death  Re: Portents of Itanium death  Re: Portents of Itanium death  Re: Portents of Itanium death ? Re: Printer recommendation, hobbyist/decwindows/mozilla and VMS ? Re: Printer recommendation, hobbyist/decwindows/mozilla and VMS ? Re: Printer recommendation, hobbyist/decwindows/mozilla and VMS # Re: Rookie question for the experts # Re: Rookie question for the experts # Re: Rookie question for the experts # Re: Rookie question for the experts # Re: Rookie question for the experts # Re: Rookie question for the experts # Re: Rookie question for the experts # Re: Rookie question for the experts # Re: Rookie question for the experts < Re: Rookie question for the experts (Dual Ethernet adapters)  Re: Running java programs in VMSP Re: Simulatenously transferring a 1GB file from VMS to two Windows 2k servers se Re: TK70 tape drive problem  Re: TK70 tape drive problem  Re: TK70 tape drive problem  Re: TK70 tape drive problem  Re: TK70 tape drive problem  Re: TK70 tape drive problem  Re: TK70 tape drive problem  Re: TK70 tape drive problem  Re: TK70 tape drive problem  Re: uptime-alike Re: uptime-alike Re: uptime-alike Re: uptime-alike< Re: uptime-alike (Counting processes with state COM or COMO)< Re: uptime-alike (Counting processes with state COM or COMO)< Re: uptime-alike (Counting processes with state COM or COMO)< Re: uptime-alike (Counting processes with state COM or COMO)  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 05:56:23 +0000 (UTC) 3 From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> D Subject: Re: BLASTed directory locks, timing windows & endless loops0 Message-ID: <bc94m7$mg7$1@sparta.btinternet.com>  	 Hi Keith,   J I just don't seem to be able to find these locks with SDA. What am I doing wrong?  F Could you please go to one session and do a $create x.x and then go toI another session and do a SDA> show locks/brief/name="your choice" or SDA> ; show proc/locks so that I can see an example resource name?    Regards Richard Maher   < Keith Parris <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message7 news:cf15391e.0306090740.2f71922e@posting.google.com... @ > "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> wrote in message+ news:<bbvlcl$e7i$1@titan.btinternet.com>... I > > 1) I now get told when "something" happens on a given directory and I  alsoI > > check (if the second longword of the LVB has changed) if the file I'm H > > looking for has arrived, but I need to know when the creation of the file? > > has completed as opposed to started. So what I'm after is a  run-of-the-mill,L > > missionary-position file-lock. This seems not to be the arbitration lockL > > that Keith Parris has talked about previously, and is very hard to trackJ > > down. (SDA> sh proc/locks Doesn't work 'cos PID is zero. And SDA> show locks H > > doesn't have any F11B$a locks)  What is the resource name and access mode > > for a simple *File* Lock?  > H > How about the RMS file lock? (Documented in the IDSM appendix on "LockH > and resource use by OpenVMS Components")  Resource name is of the formG > RMS$<FileID><sharing_flag><device_name> (where sharing_flag is a byte F > with value 2 for a volume mounted /SYSTEM).  I expect that lock will1 > be held until the file population is completed.    ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 05:56:38 +0000 (UTC) 3 From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> D Subject: Re: BLASTed directory locks, timing windows & endless loops2 Message-ID: <bc94ml$rqh$1@hercules.btinternet.com>   Thanks. : Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> wrote in message- news:3EE4EF07.FACA03C9@applied-synergy.com...  > Richard Maher wrote: > > 
 > > Hi Jim > > 3 > > Thanks for the info, it was right on the money!  > > F > > (Curiously a $search or DIR needs the lock 3 times and a DELETE or CREATE > > only needs it twice?)  > > 8 > > Can you please help with a couple of final issues: - > > I > > 1) I now get told when "something" happens on a given directory and I  alsoI > > check (if the second longword of the LVB has changed) if the file I'm H > > looking for has arrived, but I need to know when the creation of the file? > > has completed as opposed to started. So what I'm after is a  run-of-the-mill,L > > missionary-position file-lock. This seems not to be the arbitration lockK > > that Keith Paris has talked about previously, and is very hard to track J > > down. (SDA> sh proc/locks Doesn't work 'cos PID is zero. And SDA> show locks H > > doesn't have any F11B$a locks)  What is the resource name and access mode > > for a simple *File* Lock?  > > ? > > 2) Where can I find the documantation for lck$m_recover and  lck$m_protect?L > > In this instance I don't particularly want to use this functionality butJ > > Kernel mode locks have this annoying habit of surviving image exit and evenI > > if I go th UWSS route my KRNL rundown routine would have to be pretty I > > sophisticated to track multiple File Watches and $DEQs. How to ensure > > > housekeeping is done with these locks? Force process exit? > > I > > 3) 'Cos it's Kernel mode, do I have to ensure that my Blocking AST is L > > $lkpaged in memory so that a need to swap it in won't crash the machine. AmG > > I getting paranoid? I remember reading in the Hitchhikers Guide (or  similar)L > > about a TSR Calendar and I had an Old BECOME routine (pre-persona systemL > > services) that used to do this. Does anyone have a handy Kernel mode 101 > > cheat sheet? > >  > > Thanks again for the help! > >  > > Cheers Richard Maher >  > < > Page faults are allowed during AST delivery and execution. > F > However, if you raise your IPL above IPL$_ASTDEL, it is necessary to+ > lock any pages accessed at eleveated IPL.  > I > It is probably not necessary to $LCKPAG the pages.  It is sufficient to F > $LKWSET the pages as long as the code that uses them is scheduled as > part of your process.  > I > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- & > Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc. > D > Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com >   Fax: 817-237-3074    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 19:31:55 GMT ' From: Colin Blake <colin@theblakes.com> / Subject: Re: CSWB 1.2.1 fails to display images , Message-ID: <3EE783AA.8070902@theblakes.com>   Bart Zorn wrote:  7 >Has anyone any suggestion as to what I am doing wrong?  > G Don't INSTALL the images. This is where things are getting confused, I   think. Then things should work.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 19:41:03 GMT ' From: Colin Blake <colin@theblakes.com> / Subject: Re: CSWB 1.2.1 fails to display images , Message-ID: <3EE785CE.5090107@theblakes.com>   Bart Zorn wrote:  E >Just after I posted my previous message (it has not even appeared on > >Google yet), I found what the problem was. At system startup,F >MOZILLA$STARTUP.COM defines SYSTEM logical names for it's components. > 2 MOZILLA$STARTUP.COM?  Where did this come from????   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 19:43:10 GMT ' From: Colin Blake <colin@theblakes.com> / Subject: Re: CSWB 1.2.1 fails to display images , Message-ID: <3EE7864E.6060801@theblakes.com>   VAXman- wrote:  K >When will a version be available that works with HP sites -- specifically,  >the /DSPP pages???  > D Can you give me a URL and describe the problem in the a little more 0 detail? Better yet, enter a bug report about it?   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 21:07:00 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG/ Subject: Re: CSWB 1.2.1 fails to display images 0 Message-ID: <00A213C4.56FD8A57@SendSpamHere.ORG>  V In article <3EE7864E.6060801@theblakes.com>, Colin Blake <colin@theblakes.com> writes: >VAXman- wrote:  > L >>When will a version be available that works with HP sites -- specifically, >>the /DSPP pages??? >>E >Can you give me a URL and describe the problem in the a little more  1 >detail? Better yet, enter a bug report about it?  >   1 I believe the URL would be http://www.hp.com/DSPP   D You cannot register.  Walk through the registration process and you  will see the problem(s).  E I am not supplying my email address to the bugzilla site.  Therefore,  I will not enter a bug report.   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 19:24:10 GMT ( From: David Harrold <DHarrold@wi.rr.com>+ Subject: Re: Dell to make Itanium 2 systems @ Message-ID: <4b08d52b1a72589cd85496a0e501542d@free.teranews.com>  H On Wed, 11 Jun 2003 09:19:49 -0700, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote:   [...]    >>M >>But, who cares?  Are you really going to buy a Dell Itanium 2 system to run  >>your production environment? > K >It is a mistake to assume that Dell doesn't build reliable HW.  You may be L >confusing the "system" with the HW paltform.  Power Edge servers are solid. >   M I didn't say and didn't mean to imply that Dell didn't build "solid" servers. C I tried to say I doubt someone would by a Dell for their production J environment because VMS on a Dell server is not a supported configuration.   Dave Harrold    N ..............................................................................N David Harrold                              E-Mail: David_Harrold at aurora.orgI Sr. Software Systems Engineer              Phone:          (414) 647-6204 I                                            Pager:          (414) 941-4634 G Aurora Health Care                         Fax:          (414) 647-4999  3031 W. Montana Street Milwaukee, WI 53215    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 12:58:29 -0400 " From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@istop.com>+ Subject: Re: Dell to make Itanium 2 systems ) Message-ID: <3EE75FB2.AD6F1B4A@istop.com>    David Harrold wrote:N > O.K., what about developers?  Well, if I were a developer, I wouldn't want aJ > non-qualified systems as my development and qualification system.  As anN > end-user, I wouldn't want a product that is only certified on a Dell system.  E When some companies started to make "illegal" IBM-PC clones, the same K arguments were made. Corporations wouldn't trust them and would buy IBM-PCs 	 from IBM.   M Then Compaq came along and started to make clones that worked. And things got J really good when Compaq made a clone that ran "Flight Simulator" (the thenK "standard" evaluation on whether the clone was good or bad emulation of the * real thing) better than the IBM-PC could.   G Corporations started to buy Compaq and other clones because the idea of + compatibility was no longer a show stopper.   L In hindsight though, had IBM retained monopoly over that architecture, it isK likely that DOS and Windows would have been far more robust due to hardware  neing under tighter control.  K If Dell's IA64 systems won't run an OS as good or better than HP's systems, - then IA64 is doomed as a "industry standard".   K > And is a Dell Itanium systems really going to be that much cheaper than a J > systems purchased with the discounts available in the developer program?  L It isn't just a question of cheaper. It is also a question of easier to buy.K Buying from HP is a far more complex endeavour than buying direct from Dell 2 who will build your system to your specifications.  N > And hobbyists?  Well, they might actually buy one. But that will be the sameN > as someone trying to use a Multia as a hobbyist system.  It may work, but if > not you are on your own.  M Where hobbyists might come in handy is testing VMS on non-HP hardware. On the M other hand, I doubt that there will be many hobbysts who will want to run VMS  on iA64.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 15:36:55 -0400 " From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@istop.com>+ Subject: Re: Dell to make Itanium 2 systems ) Message-ID: <3EE784C7.3776FAE6@istop.com>    David Harrold wrote:O > I didn't say and didn't mean to imply that Dell didn't build "solid" servers. E > I tried to say I doubt someone would by a Dell for their production L > environment because VMS on a Dell server is not a supported configuration.  K Right now, it isn't supported. This will be the real test to see whether HP J will officially support VMS on other people's hardware. Or perhaps HP will expect DELL to support VMS.   J Hey, I just got this wild idea: imagine if we could convince Mikie Dell toH sell VMS ? Imagine how popular VMS would become if Dell were to start toN market VMS servers, clusters etc , all of the low end stuff that HP refuses toM market ? (HP can retain the couple sales of wildfire-class machines each year H while Dell would be the growing number of low end and midrange systems).  I And with the majority of new VMS customers running on DELL, VMS engineers 9 would be forced to ensure that VMS runs on DELL machines.    DUDE !, you're getting VMS !   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 16:50:30 -0400 , From: "warren sander" <warren.sander@hp.com>@ Subject: Re: Download service for VMS and Tru64 layered products, Message-ID: <3ee79a5f$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  K As a result of the feedback from comp.os.vms they have decided to allow FTP  access to the kits.    there are 2 ways to do this..   3 1) via FTP command level etc  (browsing is allowed) < 2) via ftp://user:pass@www1.aclabs.com (browsing is allowed)  L I have checked the ftp:// stuff with Mozilla on OpenVMS and Netscape 3.03 on OpenVMS 1 The FTP command line interface works with OpenVMS   H the username and password were sent on the yellow sheet of paper in your q2cy2003 SPL distribution.  I There are pointers on all the pages on how to get ftp of individual kits. / here is the basic part of that info condensed..   H In order to download kit (MV4AA_1_3_SSB.ZIP), follow these instructions:  F                        Below is a sample OpenVMS FTP session that will' retrieve the MV4AA_1_3_SSB.ZIP kit. The K                        user-supplied information is in blue, and the system + prompts and responses are in black. Replace K                        the Username and Password with the login information ( you received in the most recent SPL kit.  ,                        $ ftp www1.aclabs.comJ                        220 aclabsweb1 Microsoft FTP Service (Version 5.0).4                        Connected to WWW1.ACLABS.COM.>                        Name (WWW1.ACLABS.COM:(none)): Username:                        331 Password required for Username.)                        Password: Password 3                        230 User Username logged in. !                        FTP> cd VA 2                        250 CWD command successful."                        FTP> binary)                        200 Type set to I. 1                        FTP> get MV4AA_1_3_SSB.ZIP 3                        200 PORT command successful. B                        150 Opening BINARY mode data connection for MV4AA_1_3_SSB.ZIP(nnn bytes). -                        226 Transfer complete. K                        local: USERS$:[Username]MV4AA_1_3_SSB.ZIP;1  remote:  MV4AA_1_3_SSB.ZIP J                        602276 bytes received in hh:mm:ss.xx seconds (nn.nn	 Kbytes/s)                          FTP> quit                        221  D                         Note: Username, Password, File Name are case
 sensitive.  % see sometimes we do listen and act...  --  K --------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7 Warren Sander                   WW E-Marketing (HP.COM) B Hewlett-Packard Company         Work:  warren.sander@remove.hp.comK 200 Forest Street MR01-3/K8     Personal: sander.ma.ultranet@remove.rcn.com . Marlboro, MA 01752              (508) 467-48755    My opinions are my own and I only speak for myself *          Read http://www.hp.com/go/openvmsK ---------------------------------------------------------------------------    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 17:02:00 -0400 , From: "warren sander" <warren.sander@hp.com>@ Subject: Re: Download service for VMS and Tru64 layered products, Message-ID: <3ee79d12$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  H obviously the black/blue stuff didn't come through. if you go to the web site you will see this...   K http://www1.aclabs.com and attempt to follow the links to ftp download info " (you need to select a product etc)   -warren     7 "warren sander" <warren.sander@hp.com> wrote in message & news:3ee79a5f$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com...I > As a result of the feedback from comp.os.vms they have decided to allow  FTP  > access to the kits.  >  > there are 2 ways to do this..  > 5 > 1) via FTP command level etc  (browsing is allowed) > > 2) via ftp://user:pass@www1.aclabs.com (browsing is allowed) > K > I have checked the ftp:// stuff with Mozilla on OpenVMS and Netscape 3.03  on	 > OpenVMS 3 > The FTP command line interface works with OpenVMS  > J > the username and password were sent on the yellow sheet of paper in your > q2cy2003 SPL distribution. > K > There are pointers on all the pages on how to get ftp of individual kits. 1 > here is the basic part of that info condensed..  > J > In order to download kit (MV4AA_1_3_SSB.ZIP), follow these instructions: > H >                        Below is a sample OpenVMS FTP session that will) > retrieve the MV4AA_1_3_SSB.ZIP kit. The F >                        user-supplied information is in blue, and the system- > prompts and responses are in black. Replace A >                        the Username and Password with the login  information * > you received in the most recent SPL kit. > . >                        $ ftp www1.aclabs.comL >                        220 aclabsweb1 Microsoft FTP Service (Version 5.0).6 >                        Connected to WWW1.ACLABS.COM.@ >                        Name (WWW1.ACLABS.COM:(none)): Username< >                        331 Password required for Username.+ >                        Password: Password 5 >                        230 User Username logged in. # >                        FTP> cd VA 4 >                        250 CWD command successful.$ >                        FTP> binary+ >                        200 Type set to I. 3 >                        FTP> get MV4AA_1_3_SSB.ZIP 5 >                        200 PORT command successful. D >                        150 Opening BINARY mode data connection for > MV4AA_1_3_SSB.ZIP(nnn bytes). / >                        226 Transfer complete. D >                        local: USERS$:[Username]MV4AA_1_3_SSB.ZIP;1 remote:  > MV4AA_1_3_SSB.ZIP L >                        602276 bytes received in hh:mm:ss.xx seconds (nn.nn > Kbytes/s) " >                        FTP> quit >                        221 > F >                         Note: Username, Password, File Name are case > sensitive. > ' > see sometimes we do listen and act...  > --  L > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- - 9 > Warren Sander                   WW E-Marketing (HP.COM) D > Hewlett-Packard Company         Work:  warren.sander@remove.hp.com+ > 200 Forest Street MR01-3/K8     Personal: ! sander.ma.ultranet@remove.rcn.com 0 > Marlboro, MA 01752              (508) 467-48757 >    My opinions are my own and I only speak for myself , >          Read http://www.hp.com/go/openvmsL > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 18:01:55 -0400 " From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@istop.com>@ Subject: Re: Download service for VMS and Tru64 layered products) Message-ID: <3EE7A6CD.3C138ED2@istop.com>    warren sander wrote:M > As a result of the feedback from comp.os.vms they have decided to allow FTP  > access to the kits. ' > see sometimes we do listen and act...     M Sue, can you make sure Mr Sander get a big chocolate cookie ? He deserves one 
 (or more).  	 Good job.   K Now, if you could move that stuff out of a microsoft server and onto a more M serious server, it would give a better image to the service. Somehow, I never 1 trust files I obtain from some wintel server. :-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 21:48:46 -0400 * From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com>@ Subject: Re: Download service for VMS and Tru64 layered products. Message-ID: <3EE7A3BE.4407.395E75F2@localhost>  - On 11 Jun 2003 at 16:50, warren sander wrote: M > As a result of the feedback from comp.os.vms they have decided to allow FTP  > access to the kits.   E Great!  Any chance we can get access to "old" kits as well?  I still  ) have clients on VMS 5.5-2, for example...   
 --Stan Quayle  Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------C Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363  Fax: +1 614 868-1671 1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147 = Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.com    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 22:30:42 GMT - From: Jack Patteeuw <jjpatteeuw@peoplepc.com> - Subject: Re: ES40 processor upgrade questions + Message-ID: <3EE7D826.2040503@peoplepc.com>   D The definitive answer to compatibility between different version of + KN610-AA 500 Mhz ES40 CPU modules is here !   B http://h18002.www1.hp.com/alphaserver/download/es40_500mhz_cpu.pdf   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 16:02:01 +0000 (UTC) + From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb) % Subject: Re: Firewall for VMS / TRU64 + Message-ID: <bc7jpp$ggg$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>   V In article <3EE52B71.6FAF23B5@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes: >Bob Ceculski wrote:: >> I know exactly what I am talking about ... it is others% >> on this board who obviously don't   > N >It is because we're not talking about the same thing. You arte of the opinionH >that out-of-the-box, VMS doesn't need a firewall and is secure. That isN >probably very correct because by default, there are no ports that are enabledN >without you specifically agreeing to it, which may ormay not be the case with5 >windows that comes with plenty of hidden "features".  > O >But once you start adding applications on VMS, the level of security starst to M >depend on the application and less on the OS. And when you are talking about = >applicatiosn ported from Unix, you get the same liabilities.  > H >Witness the recent POP server problem which was inherited from the unix >version of the software.  > M >Another important issue. The average VMS system is in the hands of a capable O >person. The average Windows server is in the hands of a windows weenie who has N >convinced his boss that his experience playing doom and other games makes him >a perfect system manager.  O Sorry to have to agree with Bob but a firewall does nothing to protect you from  buffer overflows etc. M If you are providing a service to the rest of the world then the traffic just % passes straight through the firewall.   N If you aren't running a service on a particular port then noone can attack you through that port.  L With a firewall you can decide from which IP addresses users can access the  service through the firewall. G However you can do the same directly on the host using access lists or   tcpware's packet filtering.   L A firewall isn't a magic box which protects your system against all attacks.$ It is just one more line of defense.  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 13:25:45 -0400 " From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@istop.com>% Subject: Re: Firewall for VMS / TRU64 ) Message-ID: <3EE76615.D0B96283@istop.com>    David Webb wrote: O > If you are providing a service to the rest of the world then the traffic just ' > passes straight through the firewall.     H But with a firewall, you can provide many local services such as telnet,F LPR/LPD etc whose intrinsic security isn't very high with the firewallM blocking access to those services, at the same time as providing HTTP service 
 to the world.   J However, in fairness, the TCPIP Services stack does allow you to define IPG adresses to accept/block for each service. However, that feature is not J applicable to applicatiosn that bind to a port to listen for calls without' being defined in the services database.   L A firewall with NAT also has an advantage: by default, all incoming calls goM either nowhere or to one default host. And you then "enable" connections on a L service/port by port basis. So you don't have to worry about Satan trying toJ connect to port 666 of every host in your lan, or some porn star trying to download porn to port 69.   M But perhaps a greater advantage of a firewall is the denial of service issue. F Ping of deaths mayh disable your router, but the rest of your intranetJ continues to work. Without a firewall, the hackers will touch your systems# directly and can slow/disable them.   I And let's talk about buffer overflow. Consider that much of the VMS TCPIP N Services stack comes from Unix. Consider that the POP server is installed withG SYSPRV and one could wipe out any file on the system by starting it and N specifiying any file to be created as a log file. Seems to me that this is theI same type of quality control that results in unix or windows applications  being vulnerable.   N An application that runs with sysprv enabled is just as dangerous on VMS as it it on windows.  M Compare those with the OSU web server whose security was designed with VMS in K mind and where its privileges are disabled once port 80 has been bound, and F the rest can run in unprivileged mode, with little risk to the system.  M How does Compaq's proprietary version of Apache for VMS handle its privileges N ? Does it do the same thing as OSU ? Or does it run with sysprv enabled at all times ?    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jun 2003 17:09:23 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)% Subject: Re: Firewall for VMS / TRU64 = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0306111609.49974b3d@posting.google.com>   S JF Mezei <jfmezei@istop.com> wrote in message news:<3EE76615.D0B96283@istop.com>...  > David Webb wrote: Q > > If you are providing a service to the rest of the world then the traffic just ) > > passes straight through the firewall.  >  > J > But with a firewall, you can provide many local services such as telnet,H > LPR/LPD etc whose intrinsic security isn't very high with the firewallO > blocking access to those services, at the same time as providing HTTP service  > to the world.  >   O > But perhaps a greater advantage of a firewall is the denial of service issue. H > Ping of deaths mayh disable your router, but the rest of your intranetL > continues to work. Without a firewall, the hackers will touch your systems% > directly and can slow/disable them.  > K > And let's talk about buffer overflow. Consider that much of the VMS TCPIP P > Services stack comes from Unix. Consider that the POP server is installed withI > SYSPRV and one could wipe out any file on the system by starting it and P > specifiying any file to be created as a log file. Seems to me that this is theK > same type of quality control that results in unix or windows applications  > being vulnerable.  > P > An application that runs with sysprv enabled is just as dangerous on VMS as it > it on windows. > O > Compare those with the OSU web server whose security was designed with VMS in M > mind and where its privileges are disabled once port 80 has been bound, and H > the rest can run in unprivileged mode, with little risk to the system. > O > How does Compaq's proprietary version of Apache for VMS handle its privileges P > ? Does it do the same thing as OSU ? Or does it run with sysprv enabled at all	 > times ?   ? and I have posted many examples on this board where TCPware and = multinet have been immune to many unix cert bugs because they ? have keep VMS security in mind ... for telnet tcpware has ssh2, @ and on top of that once you are in I can lock you into a box and> with vms give you access to only what I want you to access ...@ Purveyor has keep VMS security in mind and runs with "NO" privs!@ On top of that, tcpware is still based on the vms kernel, unlike@ ucx which is unix based ... the only thing I agreed with is that= a firewall offers dos protection to some extent, otherwise, a = VMS box can stand up very well on the internet while offering < any service you want ... want ftp? tcpware has secure ftp or> captive ftp accounts ... since you and others keep forgetting,9 here is an example I posted a few times as an example ...   F http://www.process.com/techsupport/multinet/faqs/multinetsnmpcert.html  @ there are other examples as well where tcpware protects you fromB many cert bugs by giving those pesky "ACCESS VIOLATION" errors ...   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jun 2003 17:18:06 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)% Subject: Re: Firewall for VMS / TRU64 = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0306111618.2d26511a@posting.google.com>   ^ david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb) wrote in message news:<bc7jpp$ggg$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>...X > In article <3EE52B71.6FAF23B5@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes: > >Bob Ceculski wrote:< > >> I know exactly what I am talking about ... it is others' > >> on this board who obviously don't   > > P > >It is because we're not talking about the same thing. You arte of the opinionJ > >that out-of-the-box, VMS doesn't need a firewall and is secure. That isP > >probably very correct because by default, there are no ports that are enabledP > >without you specifically agreeing to it, which may ormay not be the case with7 > >windows that comes with plenty of hidden "features".  > > Q > >But once you start adding applications on VMS, the level of security starst to O > >depend on the application and less on the OS. And when you are talking about ? > >applicatiosn ported from Unix, you get the same liabilities.  > > J > >Witness the recent POP server problem which was inherited from the unix > >version of the software.C > >tO > >Another important issue. The average VMS system is in the hands of a capableeQ > >person. The average Windows server is in the hands of a windows weenie who hassP > >convinced his boss that his experience playing doom and other games makes him > >a perfect system manager. > Q > Sorry to have to agree with Bob but a firewall does nothing to protect you frome > buffer overflows etc. O > If you are providing a service to the rest of the world then the traffic juste' > passes straight through the firewall.  > P > If you aren't running a service on a particular port then noone can attack you > through that port.  N > With a firewall you can decide from which IP addresses users can access the  > service through the firewall.fI > However you can do the same directly on the host using access lists or   > tcpware's packet filtering.O > N > A firewall isn't a magic box which protects your system against all attacks.& > It is just one more line of defense. >  > David Webb > VMS and Unix team leader > CCSS > Middlesex University  ! finally, someone who understands!?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 20:31:10 -0400 " From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@istop.com>% Subject: Re: Firewall for VMS / TRU64 ) Message-ID: <3EE7C9BD.5E624B7B@istop.com>    Bob Ceculski wrote:tA > and I have posted many examples on this board where TCPware anda? > multinet have been immune to many unix cert bugs because theyg! > have keep VMS security in mind    E Just because you don't share the same bugs as Windows or Unix doesn'tt+ automatically mean that you are fully safe.o  H Does TCPware have the ability to send syslog messages when an attempt is
 blocked ?   M In order to protect yourself, you need to be aware of what is going on in theiJ internet jungle. I find that my little router's syslog warnings whenever aD call attempt fails a filter to be very informative  of current virus propagation trends.     ? > VMS box can stand up very well on the internet while offering > > any service you want ... want ftp? tcpware has secure ftp or@ > captive ftp accounts ... since you and others keep forgetting,; > here is an example I posted a few times as an example ...t  J A firewall's role isn't to make an application such as FTP safer. It is to filter out undesirable traffic.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 22:00:30 GMTe3 From: "George Samuelson" <samuelsong@insightbb.com> 6 Subject: For Sale:OpenVMS Vax and Alpha OS and LP Kits. Message-ID: <2ENFa.953920$Zo.216198@sccrnsc03>   http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&include=0&userid=robins-nest-collectibles&sort=3&rows=25&since=-1&rd=1   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jun 2003 08:04:43 -0700) From: machinegunkelley@hotmail.com (Mark)l- Subject: Help with 3100/98(was help with VMS)t= Message-ID: <b3d4f0be.0306110704.45bcb62c@posting.google.com>t  D We purchased a model 3100/98 with 256meg of ram but something is not right here.o@ We installed our OVMS 5.5-2 on it and it reports it as a 3100/95C I understand from help I received from this newsgroup that you need < 5.5-2H4 or 6.1 or later for the new harware in this machine.E I had a consultant we hired put 6.2 on the machine and 6.2 still onlyn reports it as a 3100/95.F Is there a possibility that what we have here is a 3100/98 motherboardA with a 3100/95 proccesor in it? the console show config reports aK7 KA59-A V2.0, VMB 2.16 which is supposed to be a 3100/98 D I am a little concerned here that we have received less then what we have paid for.       Mark   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 17:08:05 +0100 + From: John Laird <john@laird-towers.org.uk>i1 Subject: Re: Help with 3100/98(was help with VMS)i8 Message-ID: <ocheevk8nkdq27c5at5aod8n07ghqdpcc6@4ax.com>  I On 11 Jun 2003 08:04:43 -0700, machinegunkelley@hotmail.com (Mark) wrote:s  E >We purchased a model 3100/98 with 256meg of ram but something is not  >right here.A >We installed our OVMS 5.5-2 on it and it reports it as a 3100/95-D >I understand from help I received from this newsgroup that you need= >5.5-2H4 or 6.1 or later for the new harware in this machine.cF >I had a consultant we hired put 6.2 on the machine and 6.2 still only >reports it as a 3100/95.KG >Is there a possibility that what we have here is a 3100/98 motherboard B >with a 3100/95 proccesor in it? the console show config reports a8 >KA59-A V2.0, VMB 2.16 which is supposed to be a 3100/98E >I am a little concerned here that we have received less then what wea >have paid for.r  J It's possible you have some hybrid - we look after two machines which haveK /98 motherboards (for the extra memory capacity) with /96 cpus.  However, IcF don't have access to the console remotely, so I cannot confirm what is@ reported there.  However, VMS is fairly convinced they are /96s.     	Johno   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jun 2003 13:47:00 -0500. From: frey@encompasserve.org (Lurker at Large), Subject: Re: Here's a commercial for you all3 Message-ID: <A+2i0mCcvXe2@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  V In article <3EE53274.1C0C0D73@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes:# > re: 911 system going back to VMS.b > O > This example isn't for the customers. It should be used against HP managementyP > to drive the idea deep into their heads that VMS CAN succeed if allowed to, itO > is not just some old legacy thing used by a bunch of digruntled customers whon > don't want to switch.   D 	I agree.  To sweeten the pot, I heard from one of our best clients P today that he's developing his 5-year IT plan, so he wants an upgrade path from N us.  He thinks it's most logical to upgrade to Itanium, of course.  It's time M for us to start looking at porting our Cobol/Macro CAD application to VMS on  O Itanium!  (Of course we can't do that until it's available to VARs, but if one -: customer is so forward-thinking, I'm sure there are more.)H 	Come the day, we'll be supporting customers running Vaxes, Alphas, and 1 Itaniums (Itania?).  HP, I hope you're listening!s   --      - Sharon, lurker at Large% http://mywebpages.comcast.net/jcwomanr   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 21:19:05 -0500n1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>J, Subject: Re: Here's a commercial for you all' Message-ID: <3EE7E319.DD93B670@fsi.net>$   Lurker at Large wrote: > X > In article <3EE53274.1C0C0D73@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes:% > > re: 911 system going back to VMS.  > >)Q > > This example isn't for the customers. It should be used against HP managementcR > > to drive the idea deep into their heads that VMS CAN succeed if allowed to, itQ > > is not just some old legacy thing used by a bunch of digruntled customers whos > > don't want to switch.t > L >         I agree.  To sweeten the pot, I heard from one of our best clientsQ > today that he's developing his 5-year IT plan, so he wants an upgrade path fromnO > us.  He thinks it's most logical to upgrade to Itanium, of course.  It's timezN > for us to start looking at porting our Cobol/Macro CAD application to VMS on > Itanium!      F A shame they're being so narrow-sighted. Opteron looks to be a serious player in the I64 arena.  F > (Of course we can't do that until it's available to VARs, but if one< > customer is so forward-thinking, I'm sure there are more.)P >         Come the day, we'll be supporting customers running Vaxes, Alphas, and3 > Itaniums (Itania?).  HP, I hope you're listening!    Itanics ;-)o  8 Experience shows that in matters VMS, hp rarely listens.  F In deferance to Warren Sander, however, yes - at times there *IS* some positive response.  D Now, if only Carly and her ilk would take an example from the Warren Sanderses of the world...    -- r David J. Dachteram dba DJE Systemsa http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/d   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 20:33:51 +0200h+ From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl> M Subject: Re: Hobbyist or EDU license experience with multiprocessor machines?d5 Message-ID: <bc7smh$gf29k$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>l  H ""Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr"" <winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>C schreef in bericht news:00A21305.2AE6DCD7@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU... @ > In article <mPuFa.2314$xm1.1472@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Mark Buda"* <buda@tabasco.zko.dec.no.spam.com> writes: > >dH > >> Does anyone have relevant experience in running Hobbyist or EDU VMS > >base-I > >> licenses on multiprocessor machines?  If I can point at places wherep > >it'srI > >> working, I'll feel more confident in telling my colleague to order ar > >CPU > >> without a license.  > >-H > >The below URL will provide you with unit information - look for DS20E > >l2 > >http://licensing.hp.com/swl/view.slm?page=alpha > > J > >Going from a single processor to a dual will go from units 25 to 75.  II > >am not familiar with the CSLG and Hobbyist programs to be able to telloI > >you what they allow or not.  You would need an additional 50 units forn* > >the second processor to work correctly. >- > Mark, thanks for your reply. > J > I see that the EDU license has /UNITS=0 on it.  My understanding is thatF > means the unit count is unlimited, so multiprocessors requiring only' > additional license units should work.e >  > Is that correct? >a Yes.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 23:25:48 GMTt4 From: "Mark Buda" <buda@tabasco.zko.dec.no.spam.com>M Subject: Re: Hobbyist or EDU license experience with multiprocessor machines?m1 Message-ID: <0UOFa.2404$6l2.796@news.cpqcorp.net>e  H ""Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr"" <winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>A wrote in message news:00A21305.2AE6DCD7@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU...8 > Mark, thanks for your reply.   Glad to be of assistance.v  E > I see that the EDU license has /UNITS=0 on it.  My understanding isP thatF > means the unit count is unlimited, so multiprocessors requiring only' > additional license units should work.e >t > Is that correct?  ( Yes, Zero means unlimited in most cases.   mark   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 14:08:56 GMT & From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net>V Subject: Re: How to compile/link Fortran for 'portable' executable to down-level OVMS?8 Message-ID: <nodeevc47o3avqkqapsekov6cpge53sp14@4ax.com>  J On Sun, 8 Jun 2003 16:04:09 -0600, "rlfitch" <rlfitch@peakpeak.com> wrote:  @ >Need help in creating a 'portable' executable where the programF >development is in Fortran on OVMS 7.2 with F90 compiler and then portI >(copy) the executable to OVMS 6.2 that has F77 compiler.  I believe that E >the key is in the linking (rather than in the compile) but not sure.s >t  G We did something similar to this on a project I worked on back in 1993. G The compiler on the V6.2 system isn't important if you're not compilinge there.   One or two possibilities:a  D 1.	Copy the linked object modules to the V6.2 system and link there.C 	This is the preferrable solution to creating the executables that   	will run on V6.2.  A 2.	Figure out each and every shareable image used by the compiledkA 	program, copy them from the V6.2 system to some directory on the@@ 	V7.2 system (NOT SYS$SHARE).  Then, during the linking process,A 	re-define SYS$SHARE (at a minimum, there may be others) for the eC 	process.  *IF* it works, you should end up with an executable thatu' 	runs on V6.2 and V7.2.  No guarantees.t  ? 	Note:  This can be very tricky, is not supported, and may takeiA 	quite a bit of work to get right, if you even can get it to work. 	right.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 21:14:29 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>r8 Subject: Re: Intel 64 bit Pentium seems to be on its way' Message-ID: <3EE7E205.E14FD495@fsi.net>a   Rob Young wrote: > [snip]P >         Also, if you intend to run Oracle and 4-CPUs meet your needs, you justP >         shot yourself in the foot as 8 CPUs cost a whole lot more in licensing> >         costs compared to 4 CPUs.  Other shortcomings about.  F Yeah, well, there's this whole "affordability" thing that most outside2 of this group (and some within) do not understand.   -- 6 David J. Dachterao dba DJE Systemsw http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/F   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jun 2003 17:45:54 -07002 From: texascheryl@hotmail.com (Cheryl Hoefelmeyer)2 Subject: Knowledge of VMS tests for job candidates= Message-ID: <7112dd15.0306111645.7db403ad@posting.google.com>   D Does anyone out there have any exams to administer to job candidatesF to see if they do, if fact, know anything at all about VMS, and if so,F are you willing to send me a copy? We are interviewing candidates, andF we really need to weed out the people who are not truthful about their: knowledge before any actual interview. Please send text to cheryl.hoefelmeyer@premera.com.o   Thanks!g Cheryl   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 21:39:49 -0400u* From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com>6 Subject: Re: Knowledge of VMS tests for job candidates/ Message-ID: <3EE7A1A5.32462.395646C8@localhost>h  2 On 11 Jun 2003 at 17:45, Cheryl Hoefelmeyer wrote:% > We are interviewing candidates, andtH > we really need to weed out the people who are not truthful about their( > knowledge before any actual interview.  F Easy enough -- require that they are a HP Certified OpenVMS v7 System ! Administrator or System Engineer.e  C Certainly, before hiring, you can have them take the certification  A test for System Administrator, which is exam HP0-651.  Check out:e     F http://h10017.www1.hp.com/certification/region/na/csa/bcs/openvms.html  C for all the details.  There's even a sample exam (which is way too n short).r    D [This has been a Shameless Plug (TM) from a HP Certified OpenVMS v7  System Engineer]
 --Stan Quayle  Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------C Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363  Fax: +1 614 868-1671 1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147y= Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.com    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 02:21:51 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>w6 Subject: Re: Knowledge of VMS tests for job candidatesE Message-ID: <3tRFa.55539$G_.922@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>0  5 "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com> wrote in messagel) news:3EE7A1A5.32462.395646C8@localhost...34 > On 11 Jun 2003 at 17:45, Cheryl Hoefelmeyer wrote:' > > We are interviewing candidates, andhD > > we really need to weed out the people who are not truthful about theird* > > knowledge before any actual interview. > @ > Easy enough -- require that they are a HP Certified OpenVMS v7 System# > Administrator or System Engineer.h >eD > Certainly, before hiring, you can have them take the certificationC > test for System Administrator, which is exam HP0-651.  Check out:, >j >  > F http://h10017.www1.hp.com/certification/region/na/csa/bcs/openvms.html >iD > for all the details.  There's even a sample exam (which is way too	 > short).s >s >cE > [This has been a Shameless Plug (TM) from a HP Certified OpenVMS v7  > System Engineer] > --Stan Quaylec > Quayle Consulting Inc. >w > ----------E > Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363  Fax: +1 614 868-1671 3 > 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147 ? > Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.comE    C In certain jurisdictions the term 'Engineer' is protected under law1> and reserved for use only by people who have graduated from an? accredited university engineering program, had several years of D practical engineering work experience, and passed the relevant exams; set forth by the SRO (self regulatory organization) for theTD profession. The individuals who have met these criteria are the onlyD ones who can legally call themselves Engineers in any form of publicD communication, including business cards, advertising, etc.... In theC US those individuals are entitled to use the designation P.E. aftermA their names, in Canada the designation is P.Eng. Holders of these F designation have many legal obligations attached to their registration as P.E. or P.Eng.n  A Red Hat and Microsoft were forced to strip all their advertising, = designations, certificates, of the term 'engineer' in certaindB jurisdictions for their various education initiatives (MCSE, RHSE,@ etc...). In some instances the term 'certified professional' was& chosen as the replacement terminology.  E I trust HP's legal department has instructed their education/training C group of these legal requirements. The penalites for non-compliancet> can be rather stiff, and all the bad publicity you can handle.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 23:03:02 -0400c" From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@istop.com>6 Subject: Re: Knowledge of VMS tests for job candidates( Message-ID: <3EE7ED4B.A53D8C6@istop.com>   John Smith wrote: G > I trust HP's legal department has instructed their education/trainingwE > group of these legal requirements. The penalites for non-compliance @ > can be rather stiff, and all the bad publicity you can handle.  K Since HP does no advertising or even mention of VMS, I doubt they would get 7 into trouble with their certified VMS engineer program.0  N If enough people tell me I am certified, can I put that in my CV ? :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 23:35:25 GMT 4 From: "Mark Buda" <buda@tabasco.zko.dec.no.spam.com> Subject: Re: Legato NetworkerT2 Message-ID: <11PFa.2406$ml2.1220@news.cpqcorp.net>  % Contact Legato and see what they say.e  6 In the past they have been quite responsive to emails.     --  
 Sincerely,	 Mark Buda  Hewlett-Packard Company  VMS EngineeringF 110 Spitbrook Road
 MS: ZK3-4/X571 Nashua, NH 03062 Voice: (603) 884-1969e FAX: (603) 884-3451   + VMS Home Page http://www.openvms.compaq.comt> OpenVMS Portal http://www.openvms.compaq.com/portal/index.html      3 "Mike" <mike.walker@dunnhumby.com> wrote in message 7 news:412221e7.0306110152.5e60b3b2@posting.google.com... A > We currently have wumpusware running on our OpenVMS 7.3 system.3C > We are looking to go to the Legato badged client but have found a7/ > liitle "feature" while testing both versions.e > B > Full and incremental backups work correctly when driven from theH > networker server, but if you try and drive it from a DCL routine usingG > the legato command line options a full backup is performed regardless1 > of the level set. F > This is a concern to us as we are backing up around 5Tb of data each > day. >rE > Has anyone else seen this behaviour, and more importantly fixed it?b   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 09:24:06 -0700e From: Jason Brady <>Y Subject: More X-10 software available.  Examples of intermittent real-time device control 8 Message-ID: <o1leevc2efokavej4vosa9aegq6k16314g@4ax.com>   All,  E I've posted more software in the X10_MONITOR series to Encompasserve, F (http://eisner.encompasserve.org) VMS conference topics 3064.31 to 42.F You'll find source code, documentation and everything you need to get F up and running.  This system has been controlling several lights in myC home for the past month and been problem-free.  I highly recommend kE Marrick Ltd's LynX-10 controller; however, the software can be easilyp@ modified to function with other types of controllers employing a serial computer interface.    C You will also find examples of calling many system service and RTL oD routines from both C and COBOL languages (see cross-reference in theE README.TXT file).  Also how to use a simple Oracle Rdb database, pre- B compiled SQL, DCL, AST routines, mailbox devices, etc., along withD nicely-written C and COBOL code :-)  The following text gives a more> complete overview. I hope you find this software to be useful!  E =====================================================================mE X10_MONITOR and companion application X10_TIMER comprise a powerful,  C flexible system for monitoring and controlling X-10 and other typeseC of real-time control devices employing a serial port interface fromw) your OpenVMS system.  Functional diagram:0                      User Interface                         | 5   +------------+        V             +-------------+ D   |            |-> Input mailbox  --> |             | <---> TerminalB   | X10_TIMER  |                      | X10_MONITOR |       Serial@   |  Process   |                      |   Process   |       PortD   | (optional) |<- Output mailbox <-- |             |      (Built-inC   +------------+                      +-------------+       or LAT)y	         ^           |           +----------+          |           |  [Rdb]   |6         +---------->| X10MONDB |<-----> User Interface&                     | Database |                            |(optional)|                      +----------+   Major components:   D   - X10_MONITOR is a "message switch" application run in the contextB     of a detached process.  It handles the routing of commands andD     messages between two mailbox devices and a user-defined terminalE     port (built-in or LAT). The monitor can operate without the timer C     component and is easily customized for multiple applications.     >   - Optional component X10_TIMER also runs in the context of aF     detached process.  At a user-defined interval it queries an OracleF     Rdb relational database for scheduled events.  Selected events are@     sent to X10_MONITOR's input mailbox for routing. The Timer'sB     secondary function is to log timestamped message activity to aF     database table for user interface querying and reporting.  CurrentD     status for each module is maintained based on controller message
     activity.   D   - Supplemental programs for interacting with the monitor, definingB     the database, populating database tables, generating scheduledE     events, testing, startup and shutdown, etc., are included in thisr     package.  F Modules are written in C, COBOL, DCL and SQL.  They are a good example= of employing many OpenVMS Run-Time Library and System ServicenD routines, ASTs, etc. to handle intermittent real-time monitoring andE control.  A cross-reference list can be found in the README.TXT file. E Refer also to the documentation file and program source code for moreo information.  8 The author of all modules in the X10_MONITOR package is:      Jason Brady    Lynnwood, Washington USAn  E Programs were written and tested on an Alphaserver 300 4/266 running c@ OpenVMS AXP 7.2, Compaq C 6.0-1, Compaq COBOL 5.5 and Oracle Rdb 7.0-4.H ========================================================================   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 15:55:59 -0700 (PDT)M. From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>Y Subject: Re: More X-10 software available.  Examples of intermittent real-time device conl@ Message-ID: <20030611225559.68516.qmail@web20203.mail.yahoo.com>   Hmmm ! Sounds interesting !   J May I use a DS-10L as a media server (fast disks) with these X-10 cameras K or another with better resolution/zoom (those with joystick controls, like  L used in stadiums) ?  Is there a MPEG software to record and save the images N under OVMS ? Should be nice to have an OpenVMS cluster  with Volume Shadow to M save videos for security purpose ....  by the way : Is there a video capture e1 PCI card for alphas with OVMS drivers/software ? u         Regardsp   FC mH --- Jason@yahoo.com, UNEXPECTED_DATA_AFTER_ADDRESS@.SYNTAX-ERROR. wrote: > All, > G > I've posted more software in the X10_MONITOR series to Encompasserve,rH > (http://eisner.encompasserve.org) VMS conference topics 3064.31 to 42.H > You'll find source code, documentation and everything you need to get H > up and running.  This system has been controlling several lights in myE > home for the past month and been problem-free.  I highly recommend  G > Marrick Ltd's LynX-10 controller; however, the software can be easily2B > modified to function with other types of controllers employing a > serial computer interface.   > E > You will also find examples of calling many system service and RTL dF > routines from both C and COBOL languages (see cross-reference in theG > README.TXT file).  Also how to use a simple Oracle Rdb database, pre- D > compiled SQL, DCL, AST routines, mailbox devices, etc., along withF > nicely-written C and COBOL code :-)  The following text gives a more@ > complete overview. I hope you find this software to be useful! > G > =====================================================================SG > X10_MONITOR and companion application X10_TIMER comprise a powerful, nE > flexible system for monitoring and controlling X-10 and other typesxE > of real-time control devices employing a serial port interface fromo+ > your OpenVMS system.  Functional diagram:i > " >                   User Interface >                         |y7 >   +------------+        V             +-------------+WF >   |            |-> Input mailbox  --> |             | <---> TerminalD >   | X10_TIMER  |                      | X10_MONITOR |       SerialB >   |  Process   |                      |   Process   |       PortF >   | (optional) |<- Output mailbox <-- |             |      (Built-inE >   +------------+                      +-------------+       or LAT)  >         ^i" >         |           +----------+" >         |           |  [Rdb]   |8 >         +---------->| X10MONDB |<-----> User Interface( >                     | Database |      " >                     |(optional)|" >                     +----------+ >  > Major components:  > F >   - X10_MONITOR is a "message switch" application run in the contextD >     of a detached process.  It handles the routing of commands andF >     messages between two mailbox devices and a user-defined terminalG >     port (built-in or LAT). The monitor can operate without the timer-E >     component and is easily customized for multiple applications.  s > @ >   - Optional component X10_TIMER also runs in the context of aH >     detached process.  At a user-defined interval it queries an OracleH >     Rdb relational database for scheduled events.  Selected events areB >     sent to X10_MONITOR's input mailbox for routing. The Timer'sD >     secondary function is to log timestamped message activity to aH >     database table for user interface querying and reporting.  CurrentF >     status for each module is maintained based on controller message >     activity.  > F >   - Supplemental programs for interacting with the monitor, definingD >     the database, populating database tables, generating scheduledG >     events, testing, startup and shutdown, etc., are included in thisi >     package. > H > Modules are written in C, COBOL, DCL and SQL.  They are a good example? > of employing many OpenVMS Run-Time Library and System ServicenF > routines, ASTs, etc. to handle intermittent real-time monitoring andG > control.  A cross-reference list can be found in the README.TXT file.oG > Refer also to the documentation file and program source code for moree > information. > : > The author of all modules in the X10_MONITOR package is: >  >    Jason Brady >    Lynnwood, Washington USAo > G > Programs were written and tested on an Alphaserver 300 4/266 running eB > OpenVMS AXP 7.2, Compaq C 6.0-1, Compaq COBOL 5.5 and Oracle Rdb > 7.0-4.J > ========================================================================     =====  ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazilc fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  " __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!?@ Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.comt   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 23:31:46 GMTp4 From: "Mark Buda" <buda@tabasco.zko.dec.no.spam.com>Y Subject: Re: More X-10 software available.  Examples of intermittent real-time device cond1 Message-ID: <CZOFa.2405$8d2.836@news.cpqcorp.net>    <Jason Brady> wrote in message2 news:o1leevc2efokavej4vosa9aegq6k16314g@4ax.com... >dG > I've posted more software in the X10_MONITOR series to Encompasserve,iH > (http://eisner.encompasserve.org) VMS conference topics 3064.31 to 42.G > You'll find source code, documentation and everything you need to get H > up and running.  This system has been controlling several lights in myD > home for the past month and been problem-free.  I highly recommendG > Marrick Ltd's LynX-10 controller; however, the software can be easily B > modified to function with other types of controllers employing a > serial computer interface.    H Well done!  I look forward to trying it out!  This seems like a good one for Sue to set up a demo of!     --  
 Sincerely,	 Mark Budae Hewlett-Packard Companyt VMS Engineering  110 Spitbrook Road
 MS: ZK3-4/X57a Nashua, NH 03062 Voice: (603) 884-1969  FAX: (603) 884-3451   + VMS Home Page http://www.openvms.compaq.comw> OpenVMS Portal http://www.openvms.compaq.com/portal/index.html   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 02:50:27 +0000 (UTC)r7 From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)d2 Subject: Re: Motif 1.3, Euro sign not standard ?!?( Message-ID: <bc8ppj$o47$1@pcls4.std.com>  ) JOUKJ <joukj@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl> writes:x   >Dirk Munk wrote:O >> To type the Euro in hH >> VMS (if it is installed), keep <right compose-character> pressed and  >> type <x> <o>   H >On my system also the more logical  <left compose-character> <e> works.  I The <compose> <x> <o> is because before the Euro sign was invented, there G was a 'universal currency symbol' at that character position.  It looksaF like a circle with four rays at the diagonals coming from it.  Thus itB looks somewhat like a superimposed x and o.  Most of the keyboard D sequences make sense and can be usually guessed correctly to produce such characters.  I I have never ever seen that currency symbol used as such, or for anything'G other than a dingbat or a little sun symbol.  I guess that's why it wasi recycled into the euro.U   -- o -Mikeu   ------------------------------  / Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 22:36:50 +0200 (MET_DST)o From: system@msia02.msi.se Subject: Multiple domain names* Message-ID: <03061122365050@msia02.msi.se>   Hi everyone,  ! I have a question about DNS setup    TCPIP V5.3 ECO 2    VMS 7.3I  M How do you configure the definitions in the .DB files to manage the following J three domains and you want to use the very same nameserver to handle this:      A.DOM    B.DOM    C.DOM      DOMAIN ADDRESSe      123.456.678.x   TIAu   C.G. Lindenh MSLy SWEDEN   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 23:12:39 +0200r+ From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl>h" Subject: Re: Multiple domain names5 Message-ID: <bc8609$gbid2$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>a  D That is handled in the file sys$specific:[tcpip$bind]tcpip$bind.confC Depending on whether your server is a master or a slave it containss statements like this:e   zone "A.DOM" in {r         type master;         file "A_DOM.DB";         check-names fail;          allow-update { none; };s          allow-transfer { any; }; };    ) <system@msia02.msi.se> schreef in bericht0$ news:03061122365050@msia02.msi.se... >o > Hi everyone, >u# > I have a question about DNS setup  >s > TCPIP V5.3 ECO 2    VMS 7.32 >1E > How do you configure the definitions in the .DB files to manage then	 followingwL > three domains and you want to use the very same nameserver to handle this: > 
 >    A.DOM
 >    B.DOM
 >    C.DOM >i >    DOMAIN ADDRESS  >t >    123.456.678.x >  > TIAa >a
 > C.G. Linden  > MSLt > SWEDEN   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 17:59:22 -0400i" From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@istop.com>" Subject: Re: Multiple domain names( Message-ID: <3EE7A634.3523E0D@istop.com>   system@msia02.msi.se wrote:rO > How do you configure the definitions in the .DB files to manage the followingiL > three domains and you want to use the very same nameserver to handle this: > 
 >    A.DOM
 >    B.DOM
 >    C.DOM  # You create 3 different zone files. p   A_COM.DB B_COM.DB C_COM.DB    5 In the TCPIP$BIND.CONF file, you have something like:n   zone "A.COM" in  { type master ;u   file "A_COM.DB";} ;t   zone "B.COM" ine { type master ;i   file "B_COM.DB";} ;s   zone "C.COM" inv { type master ;w   file "C_COM.DB";} ;n  " zone "678_456_123_IN-ADDR.ARPA" in { type master ;r&  file "678_456_123_IN-ADDR_ARPA.DB" };  ' (there are other options you can make).e  M The reverse transation (In-addr-arpa stuff) may be the big question mark. YousL can have many host names pointing to the same IP. You can have one host nameE that translates to multiple IP adresses. But I am not sure if reversedB translation of a single address can result in multiple host names.  L If not, then for each IP address in your database, you will have to choose aL single host and domain name. For instance, if  pastry.A.com pastry.B.com andH pastry.c.com all point to 35.123.456.678, then the reverse transation of* 35.123.456.678 might point to pastry.B.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 16:14:10 +0200o5 From: Philippe Marmillod <philippe.marmillod@epfl.ch>t Subject: NFSv3 + Multinetf' Message-ID: <3ee73933@epflnews.epfl.ch>c  O To simplify my OpenVms backup task,I have installed two low-cost 200Gbytes IDE  M drives on a Linux machine and NFS monted this volumes on my OpenVms+Multinet v cluster.? I write my incremental backup saveset on this NFS-monted drive.-S All work nice until I discover the 2Gbyte (2^31-1Bytes) NFSv2 max file size limits.jP Yesterday, a 2Gb file was a huge file ,today,it is only a big file,but tomorrow  this file is a small file ! K Do You know if the is a plan to support NFSv3 (max file size 2^64Bytes) on e
 Multinet ? Any idea to bypass the problem?g 	Philippe Marmillodu 	y   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jun 2003 12:21:48 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: NFSv3 + Multinet 3 Message-ID: <p5CdX4NBWwCY@eisner.encompasserve.org>   _ In article <3ee73933@epflnews.epfl.ch>, Philippe Marmillod <philippe.marmillod@epfl.ch> writes:.Q > To simplify my OpenVms backup task,I have installed two low-cost 200Gbytes IDE lO > drives on a Linux machine and NFS monted this volumes on my OpenVms+Multinet  
 > cluster.A > I write my incremental backup saveset on this NFS-monted drive..U > All work nice until I discover the 2Gbyte (2^31-1Bytes) NFSv2 max file size limits. R > Yesterday, a 2Gb file was a huge file ,today,it is only a big file,but tomorrow  > this file is a small file !nM > Do You know if the is a plan to support NFSv3 (max file size 2^64Bytes) on - > Multinet ?! > Any idea to bypass the problem?   E    Before you spend too much time on this, make sure you can actually %    do a restore from one such backup.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 16:47:34 -0400i  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> Subject: Re: NFSv3 + Multinetd5 Message-ID: <1030611164631.2699A-100000@Ives.egh.com>   . On Wed, 11 Jun 2003, Philippe Marmillod wrote:  Q > To simplify my OpenVms backup task,I have installed two low-cost 200Gbytes IDE 0O > drives on a Linux machine and NFS monted this volumes on my OpenVms+Multinet e
 > cluster.A > I write my incremental backup saveset on this NFS-monted drive. U > All work nice until I discover the 2Gbyte (2^31-1Bytes) NFSv2 max file size limits.sR > Yesterday, a 2Gb file was a huge file ,today,it is only a big file,but tomorrow  > this file is a small file !aM > Do You know if the is a plan to support NFSv3 (max file size 2^64Bytes) on   > Multinet ?! > Any idea to bypass the problem?t > 	Philippe Marmillods  B Any Multinetters out there?  It's already on TCPWare, so if not on> Multinet, it should be soon...  (TCPWare and Multinet are both9 from Process Software and have a lot of stuff in common.)e     -- s John Santose Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 16:54:08 -0400n  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>0 Subject: Re: OT: CNN Story Not Favorable To Bush5 Message-ID: <1030611164928.2699B-100000@Ives.egh.com>1  * On Wed, 11 Jun 2003, Kenneth Farmer wrote:7 > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message . > news:Yv-cnYqd0OTFz3ujXTWcpQ@metrocast.net... > >.L > > "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in message1 > > news:zdTg9IgdspeJ@eisner.encompasserve.org... D > > > In article <veCcnbvZyp0RU3mjXTWcqQ@metrocast.net>, "Bill Todd"$ > > <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes: > > > > K > > > > That's technically correct, when you consider the world as a whole:t > thewL > > > > general perception was that there was no pressing need to remove him > *ato
 > > > > all*.r > > >a@ > > >   The world is free to disagree.  Freedom is a good thing. > >tN > > I'd say "amen", but since I'm not religious that could be misleading.  ButM > > one should also note that freedom carries with it responsibility:  you're L > > not 'free' to decide to walk over to your neighbor's house and shoot himI > > (unless possibly you have caught him aiming a loaded weapon at *your*d > houseHM > > and preparing to fire it), and we should not consider ourselves 'free' to- > do6 > > the same kind of thing on the international level. > K > What about when you're watching your neighbor kill and torture members of 6 > his own family?  Should you just stand by and watch?  E (I know I shouldn't be replying to this... Is there a standard usenet.E acronym for that?)  But...  Call the police.  Or, if your neighbor isi@ a country, call the UN, impose sanctions, keep up the pressure, > make sure the world knows whats going on, and (only as a last D resort when nothing else works, create an international coalition to
 intervene.   -- m John Santoso   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 00:08:21 -0400o* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>0 Subject: Re: OT: CNN Story Not Favorable To Bush2 Message-ID: <pOWcnQJG-_VcYXqjXTWcoA@metrocast.net>  = "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@NOSPAMopenvms.org> wrote in messagei7 news:9aHFa.44992$nr.4103965@twister.southeast.rr.com...  >  >r > -- >' >o >a >n7 > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messagef. > news:Yv-cnYqd0OTFz3ujXTWcpQ@metrocast.net... > > L > > "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in message1 > > news:zdTg9IgdspeJ@eisner.encompasserve.org...SD > > > In article <veCcnbvZyp0RU3mjXTWcqQ@metrocast.net>, "Bill Todd"$ > > <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes: > > > > K > > > > That's technically correct, when you consider the world as a whole:j > the:L > > > > general perception was that there was no pressing need to remove him > *ata
 > > > > all*.  > > >n@ > > >   The world is free to disagree.  Freedom is a good thing. > >.I > > I'd say "amen", but since I'm not religious that could be misleading.e ButtE > > one should also note that freedom carries with it responsibility:i you'reL > > not 'free' to decide to walk over to your neighbor's house and shoot himI > > (unless possibly you have caught him aiming a loaded weapon at *your*  > housetJ > > and preparing to fire it), and we should not consider ourselves 'free' to > do6 > > the same kind of thing on the international level. >sK > What about when you're watching your neighbor kill and torture members ofd6 > his own family?  Should you just stand by and watch?  K John already answered rather well, but an additional comment is that Saddam I has been doing exactly that for a quarter century (all through the ReaganyF and Bush the First Administrations, for example) and until a couple ofK months ago 'stand by and watch' has been *precisely* what we have done (and H rightly so, for the reasons John explained:  we might have tried more toK raise international consciousness in that area, but since Iraq was far fromcJ the top of the list of countries practicing such atrocities even if we hadK been as active in such humanitarian efforts as we should have been it mights* have taken a while to get around to them).  L Nothing in that area changed recently.  What changed was the ascendence of aE bunch of right-wing fanatics willing to say whatever it took to rallyrI support to get rid of someone they'd had on their list for over a decade.-F And now they're willing to say whatever it takes to try to make people1 forget their previous lies and criminal behavior.y   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 14:57:55 -05009' From: Chris Olive <nospam@raytheon.com>W Subject: Re: perl question> Message-ID: <SRLFa.3528$c6.3254@bos-service2.ext.raytheon.com>   Craig A. Berry wrote:.o > Chris Olive <nospam@raytheon.com> wrote in message news:<cK7Fa.3506$c6.3314@bos-service2.ext.raytheon.com>.... >  > * >>  There are things in DCL I miss in Perl >  > 2 > Just curious.  What things do you miss the most?  F 1) The exact way that the ' character works in DCL is absent in Perl. G You can do some work in Perl, and not a whole lot more, to achieve the eF same effect in Perl situations where I miss it most.  But the *exact* F way the ' char. works and the convenience is missing in Perl.  I used E this mainly for creating unique variables on the fly in DCL.  On the r< other hand the NEED to do this in Perl isn't as high as DCL.   Trite Example:   $ i = 0r $ while: $    if (i .ge. 10) goto end $    var'i = i $    i = i + 1 $    goto while5 $ end:  / 2) I also like the := and :== operators in DCL.-; 3) SET VERIFY and F$VERIFY() come in handy at times in DCL.c  D I still prefer DCL in VMS settings and Perl in Unix settings.  I've H never really been able to completely "convert" to using Perl in VMS.  I D always find myself back in DCL.  It's a paradigm thing; Unix people  wouldn't understand. 8-)  H Perl has been my "DCL fix" language everywhere else for reasons already . mentioned.  It just "feels like" a "Unix DCL."   Chris  -----l Chris Olivea Systems Consultant' Raytheon Technical Services Corporation  Indianapolis, IN  * email: olivec(AT)indy(DOT)raytheon(DOT)com   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 21:33:19 GMTU+ From: Ryan Moore <rmoore@rmoore.dyndns.org>t Subject: Re: perl question6 Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.53.0306111428270.23558@jaipur>  ' On Wed, 11 Jun 2003, Chris Olive wrote:  > Craig A. Berry wrote:sq > > Chris Olive <nospam@raytheon.com> wrote in message news:<cK7Fa.3506$c6.3314@bos-service2.ext.raytheon.com>...n > > 4 > > Just curious.  What things do you miss the most? > G > 1) The exact way that the ' character works in DCL is absent in Perl.u >c > Trite Example: >/	 > $ i = 0n
 > $ while: > $    if (i .ge. 10) goto end > $    var'i = i > $    i = i + 1 > $    goto while. > $ end:   You can do this with eval().   for $i (1..10) {e         eval "\$var$i = $i"; }i   print "$var1, $var2, $var3\n";   will print:r 1, 2, 3l  1 > 2) I also like the := and :== operators in DCL.d  J You mean like '=' vs. ':='?  Kinda like the difference between a string inE single quotes vs. a string in double quotes in Perl.  That's the besto analogy.  = > 3) SET VERIFY and F$VERIFY() come in handy at times in DCL.a  F Yeah, this would be nice in Perl.  I don't know of a way to do this inE Perl.  Maybe with the debugger.  At least Perl *has* a debugguer.  :)d  I > Perl has been my "DCL fix" language everywhere else for reasons alreadys0 > mentioned.  It just "feels like" a "Unix DCL."  D Of course, it's mostly based on shell and C.  Both of those are Unix
 creatures.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 17:53:32 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG, Subject: RE: PIPE output defined to a symbol0 Message-ID: <00A213A9.4FFC002A@SendSpamHere.ORG>  _ In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIIEBMHGAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:n >{...snip..}L >How much are you paying for the T1?  I just switched from Sprint (excellent	 >service) 0 >to New Edge reducing monthly from $1110 to $535  ! Close to what you are paying now.a   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMr            :5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" D   ------------------------------   Date: 11 Jun 2003 18:12:27 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)& Subject: Re: Portents of Itanium death5 Message-ID: <bc7reb$g4jdu$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>t  2 In article <m5JFa.2370$KS1.2235@news.cpqcorp.net>,< 	"Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> writes: > N >                                                                    Why won'tL > Sun?  They might - but they need to watch out to not cause a revolt by the5 > Sparc users (like what we are having with Alpha).  w  F This is the second time I have seen you mention this concept.  Doesn'tD history show quite the opposite?  Sun has done Solaris for x86 for aH long time.  They tried to stop once but rather than an outcry of supportE from the SPARC users there was a massive voice calling for it to comeeJ back.  And do you know what?  Sun heard the cry and responded by releasingG the latest version of Solaris for x86.  I expect if there is a customer?I demand for Solaris/Opteron then Sun will realease one.  Of course, in the L meantime Solaris/x86 can be run on the system until it's ready.  Seems to meC that Sun is already positioned to take advantage of  the situation.    bill   -- -J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   y   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 14:22:06 -0400e" From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@istop.com>& Subject: Re: Portents of Itanium death) Message-ID: <3EE77345.C0F8E867@istop.com>r   Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > I'm stillnD > unhappy that the VAX isn't still cutting edge and running at 5GHz.   Hear hear !a  N Think about the potential Digital would have had to upgrade all those MicrovaxM IIs whose speed was measured in kilohertz :-) into 5 GHz machines with just a/ chip change  :-) :-) :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 12:34:35 -0700r# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> & Subject: RE: Portents of Itanium death9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJICECFHGAA.tom@kednos.com>-   Sill doablee   >-----Original Message-----8* >From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei@istop.com]( >Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 11:22 AM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com' >Subject: Re: Portents of Itanium death- >- >- >Fred Kleinsorge wrote:  >> I'm stillE >> unhappy that the VAX isn't still cutting edge and running at 5GHz.o >d >Hear hear ! >oA >Think about the potential Digital would have had to upgrade all e >those MicrovaxmC >IIs whose speed was measured in kilohertz :-) into 5 GHz machines E >with just a >chip change  :-) :-) :-)1 >u >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).eA >Version: 6.0.484 / Virus Database: 282 - Release Date: 5/27/2003  >o ---y& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.484 / Virus Database: 282 - Release Date: 5/27/2003   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 16:50:26 GMTo9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>h& Subject: Re: Portents of Itanium death2 Message-ID: <m5JFa.2370$KS1.2235@news.cpqcorp.net>  + "Dirk Munk" <munk@home.nl> wrote in message , news:bc5i7r$ik9$1@news3.tilbu1.nb.home.nl... >u! > > Or abandon Sun/HP/IBM for it?v > K > Why shouldn't Sun/HP/IBM use the Opteron ? I heard one HP rep say that he-L > expects HP to produce Opteron servers as well..... And isn't IBM assisting AMDN > with Opteron chip design ? >   L Please point me to the HP rep, cause I'd love to know about this.  Why won'tJ Sun?  They might - but they need to watch out to not cause a revolt by theH Sparc users (like what we are having with Alpha).  IBM?  They seem to beL rolling the dice on their own stuff, and on IPF.  Their *chip* and *systems*L stuff seem to run as independent businesses (as I found to my dismay when we* wanted to use their FireGL graphics chip).   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 12:27:01 -0400c" From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@istop.com>& Subject: Re: Portents of Itanium death) Message-ID: <3EE75854.7D43B0A6@istop.com>S   Greg Cagle wrote:eJ > In certain customer segments Itanium is very popular. The supercomputingI > guys at Pacific Northwest National Labs are building one of the world'snE > largest supercomputing clusters with McKinley systems, for example.r  L Obviously, if  the price difference is so great, you will choose the cheaperI solution even if it is inferior. This was an HP win, as I recall, and theoN contract was signed/announced before McKinley was even available, as I recall.M  Committing to such a large infrastructure based on a chip that doesn't existrK yet is not "business like", unless you are offered a deal you can't refuse.e  L My take on this is that HP and Intel "donated" the equipment in exchange for marketing/bragging rights.<  I think accountants might call this "strategic investment".  2 (you know, like putting VMS back in universities).   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 16:43:35 GMTD9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>d& Subject: Re: Portents of Itanium death2 Message-ID: <X_IFa.2369$eU1.2053@news.cpqcorp.net>  I What I object to is anonymous posters who don't say anything new - if youiH want your opinion to matter much to me (and a lot of others) then let usH know who you are - claims of avoiding spam are a cop-out - just put your  name in the text of the message.    . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageB news:fxrFa.52410$j9%.31978@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com... >0F > "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> wrote in message- > news:zZqFa.2289$071.338@news.cpqcorp.net...P > >0C > > You have added nothing to the dialogue in terms of opinion thate > differs or9 > > adds any nuance to several other VMS/HP/IA64 bashers.c >l > G > That's the same attitude that Bush and the Republicans use to dismissd; > legitimate protest about their policies as 'unpatriotic'.A >(> > Just because you may not agree with the opinion, it does notG > automatically make the opinion invalid. And just because you may hearkF > the same opinion voiced by others, it doesn't mean that they are allD > wrong. They may well be in the fullness of time, but you have no aG > priori knowledge of that unless you are a true insider, and even thend! > the market may prove you wrong.t >" >t   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 17:04:21 GMTr9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>f& Subject: Re: Portents of Itanium death1 Message-ID: <piJFa.2372$dT1.470@news.cpqcorp.net>c  5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messages, news:vWudnd0gVIvj0HujXTWcpQ@metrocast.net... >TK > So what *was* the motive, Fred - if not the (supposed) economies of scalem0 > that would produce far less expensive systems? >-  H The economies would lead to less expensive servers, and I suppose betterH margins, but that doesn't imply systems that compete with IA32 desktops. >oC > I've got a suggestion or two for what the real motives behind the 	 Alphacidee > were:f  0 Yeah, and I have suggestions about your motives.   >:K > Earth to Fred:  one of the greatest advantages of AMD64 is that customers J > don't *have* to abandon IA32 for it, because not only is it just as fast and 9 > just as cheap as IA32 but it's 100% compatible with it.t >p  H Earth to Bill.  Is it faster/cheaper/better than IA32 in IA32 mode.  NotH just for customers, but for the system vendors.  What temps Dell to sellI them?  HP to sell them?  Gateway?  The 64-bitness isn't the driving force L here, because the systems they are planning on building are too limited, and$ don't have a credible system vendor.  H Intel can make their IA32s as cheap or cheaper, as fast or faster.  TheyK have their ducks lined up on IPF for scaleable servers with tier 1 vendors.l   >iG > But when you're *made* to let go against your wishes and without good  reasonK > (let alone actively lied to in the process), that fact is likely to enter=% > into subsequent decisions you make.=  L Bill.  Get a life, get over it.  Stop taking this personal.  You are unhappyI with a business decision (one that you have no real stake in).  I'm stillfB unhappy that the VAX isn't still cutting edge and running at 5GHz.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 12:31:42 -0400a" From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@istop.com>& Subject: Re: Portents of Itanium death) Message-ID: <3EE7596D.EFD3218F@istop.com>x   Kesav Tadimeti wrote:- >  > You know,1H > I wonder, given that Alpha was a leading processor (performance-wise),H > wouldn't it have been wiser for Intel to buy out Alpha and continue toH > manufacture it, than to invest loads of money to make a new processor?   Wiser ? Of course.  K But remember that IA64 started life a long long long time ago, when Digital J was still alive. HP wanted to replace Pa-Risc and teamed up with Intel.  IL don't think that Digital would have wanted to sell its Alpha which was stillG fairly new at the time to a competitor, especially since Digital wasn't " starved for cash yet at that time.  K And once HP decided with intel to come up with some totally new chip, theres> was no going back. So now they are stuck with that IA64 thing.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 12:49:58 -0400 " From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@istop.com>& Subject: Re: Portents of Itanium death) Message-ID: <3EE75DB4.4CBEC459@istop.com>u   Bob Koehler wrote:I >    Intel needs a chip with the hooks to emulate Pentium at not too slow I >    a speed so all those PCs using Penitums will migrate more readily toe= >    the new chip.  PA-RISC is not a good candidate for that.     N At the time HP and Intel decided to make IA64, what would have prevented Intel/ from making a 64 bit 8086 as AMD is doing now ?t  L Seems to me that HP wanted some Pa-Risc compatibility, and Intel wanted someN 8086 compatibility, yet both wanted a radically different phisolophy (EPIC) inI the chip. A marriage of 2 architecture into a totally different phlosophynM (EPIC) incompatible with the 2 architectures seems quite odd. I really wonder N if the Intel/HP engineers agreed with the premise of the IA64 and whether they+ would have prefered to start from scratch ?   F I can understand the 8086 compatibility, especially if, as was plannedN originally, IA64 were to replace the 8086 as the mainstream chip. The *number*M of applications in the wintel market is just too great to ignore. And any chpoM that doesn't run 8086 code natively is bound to fail in the wintel market. OnyM the other hand, when you look at how Apple succesfully migrated from 68000 toeN PowerPc with a built-in software emulator that kicks in transparently, I wouldN have surmised that Intel and HP wouldn't have seen such a great requirement toM have binary compatibility at the chip level, especially if it would have made5; the chip far more complex and difficult to upgrade/improve.>  M Did HP and Intel engineers have a say in the basic requirements of the chips,dN or were they just told to build something with EPIC that would include an 8086 and some PA-Risc stuff in it ?  K Seems to me that someone should have run alarm bells very early on, warningaQ Intel and HP that their plans would fail and/or would take decades to accomplish.t  L Also, at the time HP-Intel teamed up, did Digital already have FX!32 ? SeemsJ to me that with knowledge of FX!32's performance, Intel and HP should haveJ agreed to let the engineers design a totally new chip free of restrictions from the past.  K In hindsight, it seems to me that they were asking to put way too much intoUK one chip and it failed. (I say failed here because of the huge delays). Had K Intel come out with a good 64 bit chip in the 1995-1997 time frame, I thinke+ that things would be quite different today.3   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 17:49:20 +0000 (UTC) + From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb)t& Subject: Re: Portents of Itanium death+ Message-ID: <bc7q30$h43$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>h  n In article <m5JFa.2370$KS1.2235@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> writes: > , >"Dirk Munk" <munk@home.nl> wrote in message- >news:bc5i7r$ik9$1@news3.tilbu1.nb.home.nl...i >>" >> > Or abandon Sun/HP/IBM for it? >>L >> Why shouldn't Sun/HP/IBM use the Opteron ? I heard one HP rep say that heM >> expects HP to produce Opteron servers as well..... And isn't IBM assisting  >AMD >> with Opteron chip design ?b >> >cM >Please point me to the HP rep, cause I'd love to know about this.  Why won't K >Sun?  They might - but they need to watch out to not cause a revolt by the!3 >Sparc users (like what we are having with Alpha). =  I No all SUN would have to do is market a followon to their Solaris for x86o= which would take advantage of the 64 bit support of opteron. rO Once it's fully established then they could cancel future versions of Sparc andoM help their customers to move to the new hardware. If opteron doesn't take off M then it just remains another platform for Solaris. Given they already support @ Solaris on x86 the cost to Sun would probably be relatively low.O I doubt very much that Sun would make the same mistake as Compaq and burn their . boats by announcing that SPARC was going eol.   
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 19:36:58 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> & Subject: Re: Portents of Itanium deathH Message-ID: <uxLFa.61617$j9%.24547@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  D "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> wrote in message, news:m5JFa.2370$KS1.2235@news.cpqcorp.net... > - > "Dirk Munk" <munk@home.nl> wrote in messageo. > news:bc5i7r$ik9$1@news3.tilbu1.nb.home.nl... > >h# > > > Or abandon Sun/HP/IBM for it?  > >aE > > Why shouldn't Sun/HP/IBM use the Opteron ? I heard one HP rep sayg that henD > > expects HP to produce Opteron servers as well..... And isn't IBM	 assistingh > AMDo > > with Opteron chip design ? > >  >oC > Please point me to the HP rep, cause I'd love to know about this. 	 Why won'tlE > Sun?  They might - but they need to watch out to not cause a revolte by the1 > Sparc users (like what we are having with Alpha   6 Sun/McNeely aren't stupid the way Compaq/Capellas was.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 12:45:52 -0700s& From: Greg Cagle <gregc@gregcagle.com>& Subject: Re: Portents of Itanium death/ Message-ID: <vef1paddijfl0e@corp.supernews.com>r   John Smith wrote:   8 > Sun/McNeely aren't stupid the way Compaq/Capellas was.  < Then why do they continue to engage in a fruitless religious war with Microsoft?t   -- i
 Greg Cagle gregc at gregcagle dot com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 17:39:55 -0400d" From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@istop.com>& Subject: Re: Portents of Itanium death) Message-ID: <3EE7A1A5.8D872329@istop.com>e   Greg Cagle wrote:g: > > Sun/McNeely aren't stupid the way Compaq/Capellas was. > > > Then why do they continue to engage in a fruitless religious > war with Microsoft?c  M Because Sun realises that when you become a slave to Microsoft and Intel, youiN and your shareholders work hard to send profits to Microsoft and Intel instead. of sending them back to your own shareholders.  L Look at companies that abandonned their "proprietary" platforms in favour ofK brownosing Bill Gates. Digital is gone. Compaq is gone. And many others whoCK tried to become Wintel vendors have been eliminated. HP has suffered in its=M enterprise business (and is likely to suffer until IA64 becomes palatable and M they are done with all their product transitions). IBM ceased long ago to betiM its business on wintel and returned to profitable machines its owns/develops._  J There isn't much room for Wintel vendors. And when Sony and other japaneseK start to really muscle themselves into the market (right now, they are justaN testing the waters), wtahc out because even Dell will find it hard to compete.  N Sun is smart to keep its own products. Heck, with Linux threathening Unix, SunN would be smart to buy VMS and provide a true enterprise system that would haveR a huge advantage over HP and IBM's unix offerings. (think VMS with sun marketing).  K It is Sun which made Unix a palatable solution for enterprise. banks had no:M choice during the dot com because the web applications they needed to develop J for yesterday were available only on Sun and Sun was the most reputable of3 Unix vendors with a clear leadership in the market.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 21:56:13 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>o& Subject: Re: Portents of Itanium deathH Message-ID: <1ANFa.62786$j9%.58242@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  3 "Greg Cagle" <gregc@gregcagle.com> wrote in messager) news:vef1paddijfl0e@corp.supernews.com...o > John Smith wrote:o >!: > > Sun/McNeely aren't stupid the way Compaq/Capellas was. >M> > Then why do they continue to engage in a fruitless religious > war with Microsoft?1    B It's not so fruitless.....McNeely is attempting to ensure that hisE customer's don't take Windows seriously enough to leave Solaris. It's-C called 'attack advertising' when done in the context of a political ; campaign....it's called common sense when practiced by mosty? companies....and in the VMS marketing department the concept isD unknown.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 21:22:25 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>i& Subject: Re: Portents of Itanium death' Message-ID: <3EE7E3E1.5F0918EC@fsi.net>    John Smith wrote:e > > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message# > news:3EE687D9.F95E13AF@fsi.net...g > > Keith Parris wrote:a > > >i; > > > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in messagea' > news:<3EE50221.9A81A978@istop.com>...gG > > > > Remember the arguments about Alpha being single-sourced being ao
 > drawbackC > > > > (originally) ? Well, as long as IA64 is single sources froml > Intel, the samecG > > > > argument should apply to it. Because AMD's solution is based onr > the induystrytF > > > > standard which is available from multiple sources, it makes it > much more of aD > > > > commodity and hence more politically acceptable than Intel's
 > proprietary: > > > > IA64 chip. > > >mC > > > AMD's 64-bit extensions, x86-64 or AMD64 or whatever you call0 > them,5D > > > are available only in chips from a single source -- AMD.  That > makesIF > > > Opteron just as much a single-source chip as Itanium.  And usingH > > > Opteron makes you dependent on a single-source supplier with fewer) > > > financial resources than Intel has.A > > H > > ...until (read: if) Opteron takes the place planned for Itanic, thenH > > AMD's financial footing will (read: should) improve proportionately. > > D > > One should consider the possibility that in the near future both > Intel:C > > and The Redmond Empire may need to learn to find their own "newn
 > cheese",F > > if you can relate to that paradigm. Failure to do so leaves one inG > > danger of finding one's self in a "cheese station" where the supplym > is > > quickly dwindling. > 4 > A possible move for Microsoft would be to buy AMD. > D > IBM produces its own operating systems and chips which it combinesE > into systems. Microsoft could do the same. Or simply sell chips and0H > software to the likes of Dell, Gateway, IBM, Toshiba, etc....and maybe > HP.o > H > MS could then declare EOL on all software for non-AMD based processorsC > with a drop-dead date for support on those versions 5 years hencehF > (Sybase desupported VAX/VMS Alpha/VMS...what's the difference? OtherB > companies do the same.) Five years support would most likely get% > around FTC and anti-trust concerns.   G Perhaps if any of the borg read this group, it may just come to pass...    --   David J. Dachtera0 dba DJE Systemsz http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jun 2003 22:08:13 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) & Subject: Re: Portents of Itanium death3 Message-ID: <2ZMZE2N7r3vl@eisner.encompasserve.org>   _ In article <EQ-dnbk3VJHJJHujXTWcog@metrocast.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:n > : > "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message/ > news:uPL9xGJDnIjR@eisner.encompasserve.org...t >  > .... > B >> Intel has big speed bumps ahead with Xeon MP.  Should keep Xeon= >> competetive with Opteron, especially in those pesky tpmCs.N > N > You actually got it right above:  Xeon *will* likely remain competitive withM > Opteron (save, of course, for being limited to 32-bit use).  But then below 3 > you, as usual, got carried away by your own spin.t >   ; 	No.  That was all tongue-in-cheek.  Your less than stellara; 	analysis has it upside down.  Opteron will be hard-pressedd 	to keep up with Xeon.  - >> For example, this 4-way Dell config gives:f >>F >> http://www.tpc.org/tpcc/results/tpcc_result_detail.asp?id=103042201 >> >> Exec summary: >>M >> http://www.tpc.org/results/individual_results/Dell/dell_6600_210403_es.pdf5 >>C >> 78000 tpmC.  The configuration for that is 4 - 2.0 GHz with 2 MBt< >> L2 with each CPU.  As it just so happens, Intel is set to+ >> ship at month-end an upgrade of Xeon MP:M >>+ >> http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=9823N >>G >> "As we've written earlier, the Xeon MP 2.8GHz with 2MB cache will beO > introduced. >> at the end of this month at around $3,700." >>@ >> Now it isn't rocket science to presume that a 40% increase in5 >> CPU speed will translate in quite a bit more tpmC.a >  > Indeed it should.d >   : 	Leaving Opteron trailing badly - even after someone other) 	than RackServe gets to tune it for tpmC.b   >   >   Meanwhile, as part of a true> >> launch campaign with savvy marketing Intel is set to launchB >> a CPU when Opteron's become available that knock Opteron around; >> on tpmC.  The Intel boxes will be orderable.  Why tease?m > N > Let's see:  only a day or two ago you were describing how AMD was remiss forI > *not* having posted 2 GHz Opteron benchmark results yet, and now you'reSM > praising Intel for precisely the same behavior?  You're really living up tocG > dumb-blonde cheerleader stereotypes here, Rob:  we'll have to get youf$ > pom-poms and a cute little outfit. >   > 	And creative trimming on your part spins the argument.  Weber6 	talks up 2 GHz Opteron months before April launch and; 	yet - surprise - 1.8 GHz and 1.6 GHz launch.  The industry 9 	wondered what that was all about.  And how hard is it to ) 	bin a 2 GHz part if you can bin 1.8 GHz?      >   Wall Street  >> sees these things too.  >>A >> Just as significant, back to the speed bumps for Xeon.  In thesA >> next year Intel is set to take Xeon to 3.6 GHz with an 800 MHzf) >> front-side bus and 4 MB on-chip cache.n > L > But not, I suspect that you'll find if you study their plans in a bit more > detail, all in the same chip.e >    	Right.  Mistake there.    >   While others are quick to F >> point out Opteron will be at 2.6 GHz whenever, you can see that AMD2 >> will be quickly falling behind the speed curve. > G > I guess one might think that if one were as ignorant of AMD's Opterono? > schedule as you seem to be.  2 GHz is planned for this summer   = 	What do you mean this summer?  Two days ago you were talking = 	about month-end.  A little slippage there?  2 GHz in August?r  
 > 2.2 GHz forlM > late summer/early fall, and at least 2.4 GHz before year's end (when the *1e9 > MB* cache Xeon is planned to hit 3.2 GHz, last I knew).r  1 	No.  That part is wrong.  See below for a chart.i   > J > By a year from now Opteron will be in 90 nm (just like Xeon) and headingN > toward 3 GHz and beyond.  And it's likely to be either dual-core or have its! > cache enlarged to 2 MB by then.a >   B 	We'll see.  But in the mean time - Opteron will be badly trailing 	Xeon and of course Itanium.   >>2 >> Today, a 1.8 GHz 4-CPU Opteron does 80000 tpmC. > I > Not to be picky, but it's over 82,000 tpmC, Rob - and without the TPC-Ch, > tuning expertise of HP behind that result. >   7 	Yeah, experts should be able to wrench 5% more anyhow.0   >   Today a 2.0 GHzJB >> 4-CPU Xeon CPU box does 78000 tpmC.  Next year, Opteron will be: >> pushing 2.6 GHz, Xeon will be at 3.6 GHz.  Do the math. > K > Pentium will likely be at 3.6 GHz by then, and perhaps even the lower-endeL > Xeons, but the large-cache Xeons have so far always lagged *significantly*" > in their clock-rate increases.    9 	How about a Xeon with the same cache size as an Opteron?e   >>M >> > We keep being told how great IA64 *will* be. But that usually means thatTJ >> > today, the chip is crap and not a success. The day they announced the > murderF >> > of Alpha, it was TODAY that counted, not some time in the future. >> >> It will be great. > L > Not before 2006 at the earliest.  Before then it's stuck with the McKinleyM > core, and will be nothing more than adequate (and a pig for power to boot).  >   C 	No matter which benchmark you are measuring, Madison will be great C 	compared to others.  Opteron has maybe one benchmark to its creditf 	in comparison.   / >>  Intel is spending the money to ensure that.  > K > Bill Gates doesn't have enough money to make that happen any earlier thanH% > 2006:  read The Mythical Man-Month.  > @ >> Don't discount Xeon either.  AMD has to fight a multi-pronged
 >> battle. > K > And is ideally positioned to do so - better than at any time in the past.dJ > In competing with IA32 it has the 64-bit option to offer as an unmatchedM > feature (plus 100% IA32 compatibility so it's not any kind of a trade-off).oJ > In competing with Itanic (assuming Itanic turns into something one mightJ > care about competing with) it has drastically lower prices (both for theL > processor itself and for the associated boards, due both to higher volumesD > and lack of need for external glue) - plus, again, that great IA32% > performance for mixed environments.a > 6 >   Flash, IA32, IA64 and several generations of each.  >> AMD won't be able to keep up. > I > They don't have to do all that much, you know:  Hammer is a good enoughcL > product already that they can ride the process-improvement curve just like= > Itanic will be doing for the next couple of years at least.  >  >>  They haven't the resources.b > J > IBM does, and has plenty of incentive to help ensure that AMD thrives atI > Intel's (and particularly Itanic's) expense.  If IBM has great (larger) J > Opteron systems to offer and no one else does, so much the better:  theyJ > won't compete at all directly with IBM's proprietary offerings, but willK > definitely help stunt Itanic's general growth (and Itanic *would* competeyN > more directly with IBM's other products if it gathered sufficient momentum). > 9 > So the combination looks like a win for both companies.  >   6 	No.  What you are overlooking is how strong Xeon will; 	be in comparison to Opteron in the next 9-12 months until i? 	"Athens" arrives (assuming they hit their rollout, consideringt@ 	they aren't burning up a rollout with Opteron that is suspect).  ; 	Here is the deal.  According to theinquirer Mike jots downm9 	the following chart (mostly confirmed by other sources):w  ( http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=9384    	Q203	Q303	Q403	  Q104	Q204	2H04   4u' $10K+	Xeon MP ServerWorks    | 2.8 GHz+k  	Anvik 2.8 GHz 2MB L3   | 4MB L3  0 2u      Xeon E7501   | Nocona  | Nocona Lindenhu. $5.5K+  3.06 GHz     | 3.46 GHz| Dual Northway   2u  	Xeon 7501 $3K+     	etc.n  & 	From another quote at the end of May:  ( http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=9765  L RECENT ROADMAPS seen by the INQUIRER show that Intel is close to releasing aK 3.06GHz Xeon with a 533MHz front side bus and 1MB of integrated level threes cache.L This processor is a regular Xeon processor and not one of the very much more expensive Xeon MP chips.  / At launch, it will cost Intel's customers $690.a  ? 	That will be very hard on Opteron in that space.  The space is  	1-2 CPU server space.     	It has:   		Higher clock 		Faster Bus+ 		Just as cheap or cheaper than an Opteron.w  = 	There is no reason it won't outperform a 2 processor Opteron  	in MOST benchmarks.  9 	Secondly, as we saw above the upcoming speed bump to thef? 	2 MB cache Xeon brings it to 2.8 GHz.  From the roadmap above,tB 	by fall the Nacona 2 processor CPU will be at 3.46 GHz for a 1 MB 	Xeon.  B 	As we see from the roadmap , Xeon MP exceeds 2.8 GHz in the first- 	half of 2004 and goes to 4 MB on-chip cache.i  C 	What does Opteron do until Athens?  Supposedly go from 1.8 GHz to	,	 	2.6 GHz.3  ! 	Opteron at 2 GHz "in the summer"n  > 	Xeon at 3.06 GHz in 2u configs, 2.8 GHz in 4u configs , "in aD 	few weeks".  Xeon regaining its performance lead by and benchmarks 
 	will concur.v  @ 	Point here is any "paper lead" Opteron may have had, disappears@ 	in 3 weeks.  Will they ever get it back?  Maybe not.  Certainly+ 	not until the calendar rolls over to 2004.W   				Robd   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 23:18:06 -0400i" From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@istop.com>& Subject: Re: Portents of Itanium death) Message-ID: <3EE7F0D2.89F34F6C@istop.com>t   Rob Young wrote:D >         No.  That was all tongue-in-cheek.  Your less than stellarD >         analysis has it upside down.  Opteron will be hard-pressed >         to keep up with Xeon.e  I That is the crux of the problem, because your argument applies to IA64 as M well. IA64 will be hard pressed to keep up with the 8086 architecture, except1F in certain configurations where the 8086 doesn't have the interconnect hardware needed.   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Jun 2003 00:14:06 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) & Subject: Re: Portents of Itanium death3 Message-ID: <i7jod7U5lWnC@eisner.encompasserve.org>   N In article <3EE7F0D2.89F34F6C@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei@istop.com> writes: > Rob Young wrote:E >>         No.  That was all tongue-in-cheek.  Your less than stellartE >>         analysis has it upside down.  Opteron will be hard-pressedm  >>         to keep up with Xeon. > K > That is the crux of the problem, because your argument applies to IA64 ascO > well. IA64 will be hard pressed to keep up with the 8086 architecture, exceptmH > in certain configurations where the 8086 doesn't have the interconnect > hardware needed.    8 	But Xeon won't be outperforming Madison.  Madison won't7 	be blowing it away by any stretch (other than floatingn; 	point and highend database work) - but it doesn't have to.@  8 	Here is another neat wrinkle.  Deerfield is a great HPC 	part.  , 	You heard it from Paul DeMone on RWT first:  j http://www.realworldtech.com/forums/index.cfm?action=detail&PostNum=1437&Thread=19&entryID=18552&roomID=11  N >> Maybe, maybe not. A 2.6 GHz Opteron would still consume less than 90W whileP >> a 1.5-1.8 Ghz Madison would be in the 130W range, 50% higher. Maybe the high N >> wattage Madisons will generate 50% higher Linpack Gflops to compensate but # >> it sure looks like a close call.r >rJ >How about a 1.3 GHz Madison in the mid 60 Watt range that cranks out >50% >more Linpack MFLOP/s?  I Very, very impressive if true. So that's what your article is going to be) about; Madison ! :-)     >mN >BTW, that device would score about 10% higher SPECint_base2k than a Northwood >P4 with the same TDP. :-) >M   ---t  @ 	Point is Deerfield has Opteron stomped when it comes to a lower> 	powered higher performing HPC part.  A tease there is it does< 	10% better than Northwood.  That is a sweet int number too.  = 	AMD is fighting a multi-front battle and they know it.  Theya" 	haven't the resources to keep up.   				Robe   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 19:36:54 GMTj* From: Paul Anderson <paul.anderson@hp.com>H Subject: Re: Printer recommendation, hobbyist/decwindows/mozilla and VMS5 Message-ID: <110620031517572189%paul.anderson@hp.com>n  < In article <bc5kcq$ada$1@news2.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>, Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> wrote:r  C > I assume that HP is using the same Postscript RIP software in its1B > entire line of Postscript inkjet printers. In that case it seemsC > there is no reason why the 1220 and other cheaper inkjet printers  > could not be used.  C DCPS today requires bi-directional communication with the printer's-G PostScript interpreter.  If this class of printer can do that, we couldG add support fairly easily.  D > I don't know how difficult it is to add parallel or USB support to > DCPS.   H Parallel and USB support is being considered for a future DCPS version. B But how many people would have an inkjet printer attached to their0 OpenVMS system via a parallel or USB connection?  N > True, but inkjet printers are far better in printing photographs etc., so I B > would say both types are for a different kind of color printing.  B Agreed.  But how many people would print photos from their OpenVMS0 system to their locally-attached inkjet printer?  A For the above two scenarios, the inkjet printer would probably betB locally attached to a Mac or PC first, before being attached to an OpenVMS system.e  ? > I was thinking of a kind of Windows driver for a cheap inkjetrE > printer. The kind of driver where all RIP processing is done on thea7 > host. Not really something for the DCPS team I think.e  G HP already has printers that have no internal page definition language, G but rely on the Windows host to compose the page.  You are correct thatv* DCPS has nothing to do with such printers.  A In article <3EE650F4.10923.34331217@localhost>, Stanley F. Quayleo <stan@stanq.com> wrote:u  A > I have a HP OfficeJet K80 multifunction printer with JetDirect t > network box. > F > It would be useful to print with the same sort of capabilities that 0 > DCPS provides, even though it's a PCL printer.  F I have no doubt it would, but since DCPS requires PostScript, it's not. possible in the near (or even distant) future.   Paul   -- K  Paul Anderson   OpenVMS Engineeringp   Hewlett-Packard Companyc   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 14:40:57 -0700a0 From: Mark Berryman <Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com>H Subject: Re: Printer recommendation, hobbyist/decwindows/mozilla and VMS' Message-ID: <3ee73f79$1@cpns1.saic.com>-   Paul Anderson wrote:> > In article <bc5kcq$ada$1@news2.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>, Dirk Munk > <munk@home.nl> wrote:j >  > C >>I assume that HP is using the same Postscript RIP software in its.B >>entire line of Postscript inkjet printers. In that case it seemsC >>there is no reason why the 1220 and other cheaper inkjet printers2 >>could not be used. >  > E > DCPS today requires bi-directional communication with the printer'siI > PostScript interpreter.  If this class of printer can do that, we couldd > add support fairly easily. >  > D >>I don't know how difficult it is to add parallel or USB support to >>DCPS.t >  > J > Parallel and USB support is being considered for a future DCPS version. D > But how many people would have an inkjet printer attached to their2 > OpenVMS system via a parallel or USB connection?  8 Um, I currently have two, one on each type of interface.   > N >>True, but inkjet printers are far better in printing photographs etc., so I B >>would say both types are for a different kind of color printing. >  > D > Agreed.  But how many people would print photos from their OpenVMS2 > system to their locally-attached inkjet printer?  G My photo printer is connected to my OpenVMS system in order to make it cF more readily accessible since the OpenVMS system is always up put the  various PCs are not.  H I have printed the occasional photo directly from VMS but more commonly E use the software that came with the printer on a PC.  The main issue uE here is the amount of manual work involved in getting the photo file P& into a form that I can send to the PC.  C > For the above two scenarios, the inkjet printer would probably beaD > locally attached to a Mac or PC first, before being attached to an > OpenVMS system.t  G I agree that, considering the current state of available software, the kH massaging and printing of a photo would more likely occur from a MAC or G PC but that does not necessarily mean the printer is directly attached tH to the MAC or PC.  If DCPS supported the USB or parallel port I suspect ( more people would hook them up that way.  ? >>I was thinking of a kind of Windows driver for a cheap inkjetcE >>printer. The kind of driver where all RIP processing is done on thed7 >>host. Not really something for the DCPS team I think.C >  > I > HP already has printers that have no internal page definition language,uI > but rely on the Windows host to compose the page.  You are correct thatl, > DCPS has nothing to do with such printers. > C > In article <3EE650F4.10923.34331217@localhost>, Stanley F. Quayles > <stan@stanq.com> wrote:e >  > A >>I have a HP OfficeJet K80 multifunction printer with JetDirect   >>network box. >>F >>It would be useful to print with the same sort of capabilities that 0 >>DCPS provides, even though it's a PCL printer. >  > H > I have no doubt it would, but since DCPS requires PostScript, it's not0 > possible in the near (or even distant) future.  D How about an execution queue where DCPS interfaces with Ghostscript D rather than a physical printer?  Ghostscript will output to several H different native printer formats and the resulting file could be passed F on to a print queue for actual output to the printer.  I do something H similar now with EXECSYMB but, of course, there is no interface for the # print parameters supported by DCPS..  
 Mark Berryman.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 17:28:49 -0400i" From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@istop.com>H Subject: Re: Printer recommendation, hobbyist/decwindows/mozilla and VMS) Message-ID: <3EE79F0C.DE53DC8F@istop.com>r   Paul Anderson wrote:E > DCPS today requires bi-directional communication with the printer'sr > PostScript interpreter.l  B Why the "require" ?  Couldn't you define a class of printers whereK bidirectional comms would not be needed and where DCPS would simply rely onnF the line's flow control mechanisms ? One would still benefit from DCPSD services such as on-the fly translation from text to postscript etc.  J And yes, I realise that there would be issues such as page count and errorM handling that couldn't be handled, but why not let the user decide if this isA necesary or not ?e  M As long as the customer would be aware of the missing features, then I see nonP problem in supporting printers or communication mediums that are unidirectional.  D > But how many people would have an inkjet printer attached to their2 > OpenVMS system via a parallel or USB connection?    Isn't VMS going to support USB ?  L It isn't a question of how many users will want USB. it is a question of howL many printers will require USB. I can see the "expensive" class that runs onJ TCPIP/ethernet, and the affordable class that runs on USB with no "legacy"E support for RS232 or parralel. ( I don't agree, but I see it coming).t  D > Agreed.  But how many people would print photos from their OpenVMS2 > system to their locally-attached inkjet printer?  L You'd be surprised. VMS runs X windows. X windows can handle graphics.  ThisI ain't your grand-mother's character cell VMS anymore. Consider a building J security application. I can see plenty of uses for printing images locally from a VMS workstation.g  C > For the above two scenarios, the inkjet printer would probably beeD > locally attached to a Mac or PC first, before being attached to an > OpenVMS system.n  N If it is attached to a MAC or PC first, then there is no need for DCPS becauseN both can talk directly to the printer to begin with. What we are talking about& here are printers needed by VMS users.   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jun 2003 14:45:36 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)v, Subject: Re: Rookie question for the experts3 Message-ID: <liEO7FIvlATB@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  a In article <1cveevgnj5635gml5mbia2hl5f6etga3do@4ax.com>, jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net> writes:c  F > But you shouldn't need a special "hub" on your network anyway.  MostJ > network switches today have line cards for 10/100 ethernet, which should > work fine for the decservers.   ) Do they have thinwire or AUI connectors ?u  I I have a little hub in my basement at home because the cable company overeC the years has replaced their modems with models which have neither.a   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jun 2003 12:20:47 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)o, Subject: Re: Rookie question for the experts3 Message-ID: <Awwkdxks3DSu@eisner.encompasserve.org>   h In article <9b72a38f.0306110837.7d1afd07@posting.google.com>, rferrell@smcwv.com (Rusty Ferrell) writes: > Greetings all!H > I'm a UNIX kind-of-guy that's been put into a VMS-kind-of-guy position > so please be gentle with me!  D    Welcome to the world of reliability, security, and English verbs.  D > Our existing system is an AlphaServer 2100 and it's being replacedE > with a DS10L AlphaServer. The 2100 is FDDI attached to our internal E > TCP/IP based network. There are no other network connections to the C > 2100. In order for the old DECserver's and devices to "talk" (viatF > DECnet I assume)to the 2100, a small ethernet hub was installed thatG > acts as a media converter/bridge between the internal network and thei > thinwire DEC network.i  D    Not DECnet.  DECservers speak LAT, MOM/MOP, and sometimes TCP/IP.E    LAT and MOM/MOP are often shipped with third party DECnet packages B    and MOM/MOP used to be managed through DECnet management tools,H    hence confusion.  (DECnet, LAT, MOM/MOP, and TCP/IP are all differentG    protocols with different protocol numbers at the Ethernet level; LAT !    and MOM/MOP are not routable.)p  F > The DS10L has two internal ethernet adapters. Is it possible to bind/ > TCPIP to one adapter and DECnet to the other?l  G    Yep.  Or in this case TCP/IP can be bound to one and LAT and MOM/MOP.C    can be bound to the other.  Or they can happily coexists on one.I5    Whatever suits your fancy, or your network folks'.t  E    What model DECserver?  Later versions can simply use TCP/IP.  WhatH?    is the DECserver being used for (ASCII terminals, printers)?c   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 22:01:19 +0200h From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>, Subject: Re: Rookie question for the experts2 Message-ID: <bc8247$vs9$1@news3.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>   Rusty Ferrell wrote: > Greetings all!H > I'm a UNIX kind-of-guy that's been put into a VMS-kind-of-guy position > so please be gentle with me! > D > Our existing system is an AlphaServer 2100 and it's being replacedE > with a DS10L AlphaServer. The 2100 is FDDI attached to our internal E > TCP/IP based network. There are no other network connections to theoC > 2100. In order for the old DECserver's and devices to "talk" (vial > DECnet I assume)  O No, 'classic' DECservers use MOP (Maintenance Operations Protocol) to download tJ their software, and LAT (Local Area Transport) for their normal operation.  / Newer versions can use TFTP and Telnet as well.v  P MOP and LAT are non-routable protocols and have nothing (!!!) to do with DECnet.  Q The only problem is that the MOP entries for the software for the DECservers are pL placed in the DECnet databases (Phase IV) or configuration files (Phase V / < OSI), so you need DECnet to be able to load your DECservers.  6 > to the 2100, a small ethernet hub was installed thatG > acts as a media converter/bridge between the internal network and the  > thinwire DEC network.a > F > The DS10L has two internal ethernet adapters. Is it possible to bind0 > TCPIP to one adapter and DECnet to the other?   N Yes, easy. The configuration utilities will ask you which interface(s) to use.   > The network guys hereeE > really, REALLY want to eliminate the little ethernet hub (it annoyseF > them) and I thought that I could accomplish that task if I could getA > the DS10L connected to both the internal IP network and the DECoG > thinwire directly (yes, I know I'll have to convert the TP connection9@ > to BNC but I'll have the little hub available if I can get the  > ethernet adapters configured). > ! > Thanks in advance for any help!9 >  > Rusty Ferrellm > rferrell@smcwv.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 19:10:39 GMTb& From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net>, Subject: Re: Rookie question for the experts8 Message-ID: <1cveevgnj5635gml5mbia2hl5f6etga3do@4ax.com>  H On 11 Jun 2003 09:37:37 -0700, rferrell@smcwv.com (Rusty Ferrell) wrote:   >Greetings all!.G >I'm a UNIX kind-of-guy that's been put into a VMS-kind-of-guy positionB >so please be gentle with me!   H Greetings.  And welcome!  One minor suggestion:  use a title that's more descriptive. >tC >Our existing system is an AlphaServer 2100 and it's being replacedtD >with a DS10L AlphaServer. The 2100 is FDDI attached to our internalD >TCP/IP based network. There are no other network connections to theB >2100. In order for the old DECserver's and devices to "talk" (viaE >DECnet I assume)to the 2100, a small ethernet hub was installed thatoF >acts as a media converter/bridge between the internal network and the >thinwire DEC network.  H The DECservers do not talk "dDECnet", but they use MOP to download their6 system.  What version of VMS is running on the 2100?     >mE >The DS10L has two internal ethernet adapters. Is it possible to bind D >TCPIP to one adapter and DECnet to the other? The network guys hereD >really, REALLY want to eliminate the little ethernet hub (it annoysE >them) and I thought that I could accomplish that task if I could getn@ >the DS10L connected to both the internal IP network and the DECF >thinwire directly (yes, I know I'll have to convert the TP connection? >to BNC but I'll have the little hub available if I can get the- >ethernet adapters configured)..  I Well sure.  How to do this depends a bit on what versions of VMS, TCP/IP,d and DECnet you're running.  H You'd use the DECnet configuration procedure to assign it to the network device you're using for that.7  K And you'd use the TCP/IP configuration procedure to assign that protocol to F the device you're using for TCP/IP.  Unfortunately it takes a bit more< knowledge to determine which device is which on your system.  D But you shouldn't need a special "hub" on your network anyway.  MostH network switches today have line cards for 10/100 ethernet, which shouldJ work fine for the decservers.  However, I don't see  how your network guysK could get annoyed by a mere "hub" on their network.  Is it causing problems  for them somehow?t   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 15:32:40 -0400a" From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@istop.com>, Subject: Re: Rookie question for the experts) Message-ID: <3EE783C9.EBFC6199@istop.com>-  , To word thing alredy say in a different way:  M When you configure yoru TCPIP software, you specify which define an interfacenJ will be put on. You could use one ethernet for one "local" subnet, and theN other for your company network. Or you could just define one etherente to have
 tcpip access.e   $TCPIP TCPIP> HELP SET INTERFACE  TCPIP> SHOW INTERFACES    ' For the decservers, there are 2 issues. N Issue 1: software load. They use the MOP protocol. It sends a request, and oneT VMS node needs to respond by giving it a (its) file. This can be achieved in 2 ways:  L With LANCP (the newer method, independant of decnet). or with NCP (dependant
 on DECNET)  H Issue 2: the actual data communications. this is achieved with the LATCP% utility where the LAT is configured. s	 $MC LATCPn LATCP> HELP CREATE LINKn  E You then tell the lat software on which ethernet device to listen andl broadcast service availability.B  N Note that it can be somewhat confusing since VMS tends to have different names for the same ethernet devices.  N For instance, on my allmighty Microvax II, the primary TCPIP interface is QE0,2 but the ethernet device is XQA0: at the dcl level.  N but on my microvax 3, the TCPIP interface is SE0, but the device name is ESA0:   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 17:41:32 -0400o" From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@istop.com>, Subject: Re: Rookie question for the experts) Message-ID: <3EE7A206.1F9327FF@istop.com>e   Dirk Munk wrote:R > The only problem is that the MOP entries for the software for the DECservers areM > placed in the DECnet databases (Phase IV) or configuration files (Phase V /t> > OSI), so you need DECnet to be able to load your DECservers.  G Not anymore. the LANCP utility now can handle the MOP requests for bothrO decserver boot as well as cluster satellite boots without any help from DECNET.h   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jun 2003 17:11:49 -0700( From: rferrell@smcwv.com (Rusty Ferrell), Subject: Re: Rookie question for the experts= Message-ID: <9b72a38f.0306111611.7d717407@posting.google.com>-  v koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote in message news:<Awwkdxks3DSu@eisner.encompasserve.org>...j > In article <9b72a38f.0306110837.7d1afd07@posting.google.com>, rferrell@smcwv.com (Rusty Ferrell) writes: > > Greetings all!J > > I'm a UNIX kind-of-guy that's been put into a VMS-kind-of-guy position  > > so please be gentle with me! > F >    Welcome to the world of reliability, security, and English verbs.  C Thanks! Actually I've been around various VMS systems for years butsD I've sort-of acquired the administration capacity when our VMS admin/ retired. Rock solid systems, those VMS units...    > F > > Our existing system is an AlphaServer 2100 and it's being replacedG > > with a DS10L AlphaServer. The 2100 is FDDI attached to our internalpG > > TCP/IP based network. There are no other network connections to the E > > 2100. In order for the old DECserver's and devices to "talk" (via H > > DECnet I assume)to the 2100, a small ethernet hub was installed thatI > > acts as a media converter/bridge between the internal network and thew > > thinwire DEC network.h > F >    Not DECnet.  DECservers speak LAT, MOM/MOP, and sometimes TCP/IP.G >    LAT and MOM/MOP are often shipped with third party DECnet packagesoD >    and MOM/MOP used to be managed through DECnet management tools,J >    hence confusion.  (DECnet, LAT, MOM/MOP, and TCP/IP are all differentI >    protocols with different protocol numbers at the Ethernet level; LATs# >    and MOM/MOP are not routable.)r >   B You know, after I wrote that I knew that it didn't sound right. WeA have an old SNA gateway that an application uses to get chemistryiF information from our mainframe. Would I be correct in assuming that IT uses DECnet?  H > > The DS10L has two internal ethernet adapters. Is it possible to bind1 > > TCPIP to one adapter and DECnet to the other?  > I >    Yep.  Or in this case TCP/IP can be bound to one and LAT and MOM/MOP E >    can be bound to the other.  Or they can happily coexists on one.A7 >    Whatever suits your fancy, or your network folks'.o > G >    What model DECserver?  Later versions can simply use TCP/IP.  What A >    is the DECserver being used for (ASCII terminals, printers)?h  > The old DECservers (200's, 300's and 500's) are being used forB terminals, printers and serial devices such as mass spectrometers,C xray systems, atomic scales, etc. I probably should have been a bitlD more descriptive of the environment. The DS10L is running OVMS 7.3-1C with the Digital TCPIP suite and DECnet-Plus. I'd love to eliminate'F DECnet but I believe the SNA gateway needs it. I have configured TCPIPC to use the "B" ethernet port of the DS10L (EWB0) and it seems to be E working fine. So, looks like my focus in the morning is to figure outnC how to bind LAT to the "EWA0" port and get TSM running (I think the A software failed to install since the network wasn't up during theyD software installation). Then I'll tackle SNA "stuff"....and probably3 pound my thumb with a hammer just for good measure.r  < Thanks for your help! It's greatly appreciated (really!)....  
 Rusty Ferrellt Special Metals Corporation rferrell@smcwv.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 21:05:04 -0400o& From: "JustMe" <mc.moore@sympatico.ca>, Subject: Re: Rookie question for the experts9 Message-ID: <YjQFa.8049$0c4.770361@news20.bellglobal.com>e  I Just make sure you start up DECnet on the required line (EWA0) before youmH start LAT.  My recollection from older (VAX) versions was that LAT wouldJ "take over" the adapter if started first, and then DECnet wouldn't be able to start the line.  B The SYSTARTUP_VMS.com template has the sequencing like that, iirc.  H (btw, I think the IP equivalent of MOP is BOOTP not TFTP, but I could be% mistaken -- wouldn't be the 1st time)s  I If you install TSM for your server management, and define the servers and J their characteristics, its pretty straightforward from there.  We only addG the info to the NCP (Phase IV) database to permit an alternate means of J 'talking' to the server for mgt. purposes (NCP > conn node xxxxxx), pretty, sure that TSM maintains its info separately.    + "Dirk Munk" <munk@home.nl> wrote in message , news:bc8247$vs9$1@news3.tilbu1.nb.home.nl... Rusty Ferrell wrote: > Greetings all!H > I'm a UNIX kind-of-guy that's been put into a VMS-kind-of-guy position > so please be gentle with me! >.D > Our existing system is an AlphaServer 2100 and it's being replacedE > with a DS10L AlphaServer. The 2100 is FDDI attached to our internaluE > TCP/IP based network. There are no other network connections to the6C > 2100. In order for the old DECserver's and devices to "talk" (via  > DECnet I assume)  E No, 'classic' DECservers use MOP (Maintenance Operations Protocol) to  downloadJ their software, and LAT (Local Area Transport) for their normal operation.  / Newer versions can use TFTP and Telnet as well.G  H MOP and LAT are non-routable protocols and have nothing (!!!) to do with DECnet.0  L The only problem is that the MOP entries for the software for the DECservers aredK placed in the DECnet databases (Phase IV) or configuration files (Phase V /L< OSI), so you need DECnet to be able to load your DECservers.  6 > to the 2100, a small ethernet hub was installed thatG > acts as a media converter/bridge between the internal network and thet > thinwire DEC network.  >eF > The DS10L has two internal ethernet adapters. Is it possible to bind/ > TCPIP to one adapter and DECnet to the other?'  I Yes, easy. The configuration utilities will ask you which interface(s) ton use.   > The network guys hereeE > really, REALLY want to eliminate the little ethernet hub (it annoyseF > them) and I thought that I could accomplish that task if I could getA > the DS10L connected to both the internal IP network and the DECtG > thinwire directly (yes, I know I'll have to convert the TP connectionu@ > to BNC but I'll have the little hub available if I can get the  > ethernet adapters configured). > ! > Thanks in advance for any help!e >h > Rusty Ferrellb > rferrell@smcwv.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 22:05:52 -0400>" From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@istop.com>, Subject: Re: Rookie question for the experts) Message-ID: <3EE7DFE9.1227E1B4@istop.com>o   Rusty Ferrell wrote:D > You know, after I wrote that I knew that it didn't sound right. WeC > have an old SNA gateway that an application uses to get chemistryeH > information from our mainframe. Would I be correct in assuming that IT > uses DECnet?  
 Yep, it does.i  G > working fine. So, looks like my focus in the morning is to figure outeE > how to bind LAT to the "EWA0" port and get TSM running (I think the C > software failed to install since the network wasn't up during them > software installation).o  ? LANCP to setup the loading of software for your decservers (MO)wL LATCP allows to to specify on which device to get LAT going. You may have toU look at your startup procedures to ensure that LAT always starts on the right device.n    . > Then I'll tackle SNA "stuff"....and probably5 > pound my thumb with a hammer just for good measure.w  H I think you'll have fun with that one. Fro memory, the gateway loads itsN initial software through MOP. So you could transfer that from decnet to LANCP.N  Then, a program runs on VMS to send configuration commands to the gateway. (IK think it was SNANCP or something like that). Not sure what sort of protocolu7 would be used between VMS and the SNA gateway for that.m  N For the data transfer facility (DTF), it uses DECNET from your node to the VMSK node that acts as a "server". This starts a network task on that node whicheI then communicates with the SNAgateway and then talks to the MVS-based DTF L peer. Again, not sure what underlying protocol is used between that VMS node and the SNA gateway.  J Considering that those products are probably long abandonned, I'd say thatH keeping DECNET would be the simpler solution. As long as the SNA gatewayI resides in the same LAN as your VMS hosts, yor network guys don't have toiE worry about it since their routers don't have to handle that traffic.o  M Have you considered moving to an FTP service to transfer the files ? (or evenp NFS ?)   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jun 2003 10:13:51 -0700' From: Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net>eE Subject: Re: Rookie question for the experts (Dual Ethernet adapters)s) Message-ID: <bc7o0f01bva@drn.newsguy.com>y  I In article <9LAb7TYbDvCW@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net) says...  > 8 >(while MVS people are surprised at how small it is :-).  P Is the MVS doc set more comprehensive?  I *have* noticed times when the only wayJ to figure out a fine point from the VMS doc set was to try it and see what happened.  :-(   -- h! Today on Paper-view: Pulp Fictioni   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 20:17:51 +0000 (UTC)e, From: lewis@PROBE.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)) Subject: Re: Running java programs in VMSo. Message-ID: <bc82pf$7q2$1@newslocal.mitre.org>  x "Tim" <tim_a_b@hotmail.com> writes in article <veb79o3b4592bf@corp.supernews.com> dated Tue, 10 Jun 2003 10:56:20 +0200:K >I thought I had solved it - when I got the class bak to my Windows machinenF >using FTP, its filename was all lower case, rather than 'camel case'.  G On an ODS-2 device there is no lower case in filenames, so the VMS javasL implementation deals with it.  The current version of VMS (7.3-1) has ODS-5,G which allows mixed-case filenames.  If you want to build on VMS and runsG somewhere else, I'd suggest using ODS-5 so you won't have that problem.e  ( >Below is the output that you asked for: >c( >1CIO5::IRIS>@sys$manager:java$setup.com5 >Setting up symbols for foreign command line usage...e& >JAVA$FILENAME_CONTROLS now set to: -1  >1CIO5::IRIS>show log *classpath >a >(LNM$PROCESS_TABLE) >t< >  "CLASSPATH" = "/sys$common/java/lib/JDK118_CLASSES.ZIP:." >h >(LNM$JOB_82124A00)h >e >(LNM$GROUP_004300)p >i >(LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)e >. >(LNM$SYSCLUSTER_TABLE)r >  >(DECW$LOGICAL_NAMES)f& >1CIO5::IRIS>javac "BTIrisServer.java"# >1CIO5::IRIS>dir btirisserver.classr >l >Directory IRIS:[SRC]y >f@ >BTIRISSERVER.CLASS;9                 5  10-JUN-2003 09:26:52.63@ >BTIRISSERVER.CLASS;8                 6  10-JUN-2003 08:47:27.88@ >BTIRISSERVER.CLASS;7                 6  10-JUN-2003 08:47:18.06@ >BTIRISSERVER.CLASS;6                 5  10-JUN-2003 08:44:13.58@ >BTIRISSERVER.CLASS;5                 6  10-JUN-2003 08:40:34.44@ >BTIRISSERVER.CLASS;4                 5   6-JUN-2003 16:55:38.98@ >BTIRISSERVER.CLASS;3                 5   6-JUN-2003 16:55:29.09@ >BTIRISSERVER.CLASS;2                 5   6-JUN-2003 16:47:54.95@ >BTIRISSERVER.CLASS;1                 5   5-JUN-2003 09:38:23.55 >d >Total of 9 files, 48 blocks.w  >1CIO5::IRIS>java "BTIrisServer" >Can't find class BTIrisServer  H Damn, I can't see anything wrong with your commands or results until theJ last line with the error.  If you were a Java newbie I'd tell you to checkJ things like "make sure there's no 'package' line" and "Are you certain the/ case matches the way you typed it in the file?"t  + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.org > The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 15:51:05 -0700 (PDT).. From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>Y Subject: Re: Simulatenously transferring a 1GB file from VMS to two Windows 2k servers se ? Message-ID: <20030611225105.3643.qmail@web20207.mail.yahoo.com>a   Well   There is a lack of command:      $ COPY/PARALLEL a b,cr $ BACKUP/PARALLEL a /TO=(b,c)   = May be using Oracle RDB HotStandby or Volume Shadow APIs ....t  / Wake up Fabio ! You are not a Soft. Engineer ! a     Regardsn   FC  ' --- JF Mezei <jfmezei@istop.com> wrote:h( > re: 2 files transfeered simultaneously >  > O > 1- are the two wintel machines using the same VMS username to access the file  > at the same time ? > G > 2-Consider defining a few logicals to better trace/log the transfers:n > ? > To log transactions or remote users doing FTP on your system:  > 4 > $DEFINE/SYSTEM TCPIP$FTPD_LOG_CLIENT_ACTIVITY TRUE > I > This will result in the SYS$LOGIN:TCPIP$FTP_SERVER.LOG files containingiJ > details of transactions. In your case, you should make sure that each PCK > generates its own file (eg: that VMS sees this as two separate transfers,   > instead of a single transfer). >  > Here is an example output:: > --------------------------------------------------------8 > FTP Login request received at Sat Feb 15 01:41:00 2003= > from remote IPv6 address 0:0:0:0:0:ffff:10.0.0.13 port 1988u% > UserAlias:jfmezei  UserName:jfmezeie3 > ProcName:TCPIP$FTPC0005F  AnonUser:0  MultiLine:1 : > -------------------------------------------------------- > " > >>> 230 User logged in. <<< PASV> > >>> 227 Entering Passive Mode (10,0,0,10,197,107) <<< TYPE I' > >>> 200 TYPE set to IMAGE. <<< CWD []h! > >>> 250-CWD command successful.pF > >>> 250 New default directory is DKA200:[JFMEZEI] <<< RETR bmwz8.jpgA > >>> 150 Opening data connection for DKA200:[JFMEZEI]BMWZ8.JPG;1d! > (10.0.0.13,1989) (160250 bytes)a% > >>> 226 Transfer complete. <<< QUIT- > >>> 221 Goodbye.     =====: ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazil- fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  " __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!?@ Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.come   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 14:46:24 -0400h* From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com>$ Subject: Re: TK70 tape drive problem/ Message-ID: <3EE740C0.14580.37DBC81B@localhost>   . On 11 Jun 2003 at 17:57, Adrian Stapley wrote:G > except the TK70 drive, which did work before, but now gives an error dL > message "Volume is not software enabled" when trying to mount a formatted " > tape or initialize a blank tape.  B You might have a dead tape drive.  Does the drive seem to operate < normally?  (Yellow light comes on when tape is loaded, etc.)  > It might also be that the cable from the drive to the card is  unhooked/intermittent.  @ [Shameless plug:  Of course, you could convert to CHARON-VAX...]  &   http://www.stanq.com/charon-vax.html
 --Stan Quayle> Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------C Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363  Fax: +1 614 868-1671d1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147 = Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.comc   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 14:29:23 -0400G" From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@istop.com>$ Subject: Re: TK70 tape drive problem) Message-ID: <3EE774F9.693A772B@istop.com>    Adrian Stapley wrote:iH > years idleness. Everything seems to have untimately come back to life,F > except the TK70 drive, which did work before, but now gives an errorK > message "Volume is not software enabled" when trying to mount a formattedo" > tape or initialize a blank tape.  J You probably have a dirty head. Your TK70 needs a good  bath to remove any crud, lint, dust..  / Is this a commercial system, or a home system ?k  N If home system (or system without maintenance), you can use some good qualitryI VCR head cleaning kit. You can use common sense to try to clean the heads N (either by sliding the cleaning tissue through the slot, or gently raising theK heads until you have acces sto them. BE VERY VERY GENTLE. You don't want ton0 rub the heads, just kindly caress their surface.  / At one time, Digital did sell TK cleaning kits.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 19:21:26 GMTs8 From: "Jerome H. Fine" <jhfineb9rv@b9rvnospamcompsys.to>$ Subject: Re: TK70 tape drive problem4 Message-ID: <3EE7811D.29A63163@b9rvnospamcompsys.to>   >JF Mezei wrote:   > >Adrian Stapley wrote:J > > years idleness. Everything seems to have untimately come back to life,H > > except the TK70 drive, which did work before, but now gives an errorM > > message "Volume is not software enabled" when trying to mount a formattede$ > > tape or initialize a blank tape.L > You probably have a dirty head. Your TK70 needs a good  bath to remove any > crud, lint, dust.l   Jerome Fine replies:  7 If you don't have a head cleaner, then I have found theo7 best solution is a Q-tip (wood stick with cotton ends -f& a bit bigger than a wood match stick)!  3 Since you already seem to have access to the drive,e4 completely removing it from the system should not be9 too difficult.  There is a latch in the front which holdsr5 the drive in place, just push the latch down.  I haver6 never found there to be a problem doing this on a live3 system, but I use the TK70 on a PDP-11 under RT-11, 7 so decide what is best for you.  PLUS, I did once short 2 the power supply when I plugged the power back in,7 so connecting the power is NOT trivial.  I suggest thato5 IF you are working with a live system, disconnect thei7 power first and connect the power last relative the theC: signal cable.  If the cable does not have a sticker saying THIS SIDE  UP, mark the cable.  4 OK - the drive is out.  Undo the THREE bolts holding6 down the protective cover.  They usually have two with4 lock washers and one without.  Try and keep them the5 same when you replace the bolts.  Also, don't use tooe/ much pressure on the bolts.  The TK70 is mostlyo plastic.  9 After the protective cover is off, there is a single bolt 0 holding down the backing piece guiding the media9 against the head.  I find that this bolt is a bit smaller 6 than the other three and needs a smaller screw driver.  1 There is NO need to align this backing plate whenr8 you reinstall it - the alignment is taken care of by the4 base cut-outs.  But be gentle when you reinstall and. again, don't use force - just a firm pressure.  3 OK - the backing plate is off - I use a WOOD  Q-tipl8 with isopropanol (head cleaning fluid) making the cotton5 damp, but not soaked.  Soaked will not hurt, but willt1 not help.  Firmly rub the WOOD  Q-tip against the 3 head - I usually do an up and down motion.  Try and 4 keep the cotton on the metal head so that other dirt4 from outside the head is not brought in contact with5 the head.  Change Q-tips until no more dirt is found.   6 Repeat with the backing plate.  I also clean the media4 rollers as well.  And a general cleanup of the drive does not hurt.  2 Replace the backing plate.  Replace the protective4 cover.  After you do it 2 dozen times, it only takes4 about 10 minutes.  A single pass of a dirty tape can cause the problem.  # Remember - DO  NOT  FORCE anything.l  9 Please let us know if this worked!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!c   Sincerely yours,   Jerome Fine  --4 To obtain the original e-mail address, please remove5 the ten characters which immediately follow the 'at'.t8 If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail7 address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk 5 e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can bet7 obtained by replacing the four characters preceding thec. 'at' with the four digits of the current year.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 17:30:45 -0400o" From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@istop.com>$ Subject: Re: TK70 tape drive problem) Message-ID: <3EE79F81.A6E2359C@istop.com>u   "Jerome H. Fine" wrote:u9 > If you don't have a head cleaner, then I have found theh9 > best solution is a Q-tip (wood stick with cotton ends -t( > a bit bigger than a wood match stick)!  M Well, I didn't want to suggest this since I had been told the heads are quitemM fragile. I use lens cleaning paper myself with a single drop of lens cleaning N fluid or alchool. I found that Qtips may leave little strands (unless you have foam qtips).   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 22:00:36 GMTI8 From: "Jerome H. Fine" <jhfineb9rv@b9rvnospamcompsys.to>$ Subject: Re: TK70 tape drive problem4 Message-ID: <3EE7A66B.1EB21350@b9rvnospamcompsys.to>   >JF Mezei wrote:   > > "Jerome H. Fine" wrote:l; > > If you don't have a head cleaner, then I have found theg; > > best solution is a Q-tip (wood stick with cotton ends -r* > > a bit bigger than a wood match stick)!O > Well, I didn't want to suggest this since I had been told the heads are quitelO > fragile. I use lens cleaning paper myself with a single drop of lens cleaning3P > fluid or alchool. I found that Qtips may leave little strands (unless you have > foam qtips).   Jerome Fine replies:  2 Perhaps I have just been lucky, but I have cleaned- each of my TK70 drives over a dozen times - Ii1 probably had old tapes with media that were flaky / at one point - and have always been successful.   1 The read heads really don't seem all that fragilei2 relative to a cotton swab.  I find I need to press+ firmly to remove the accumulated oxide - orh, whatever is on the heads.  As I said, I also( clean the backing piece as well plus the/ rollers.  The cleaning fluid is in a DEC bottle - that came with a TK25 cleaning kit.  Not muchl% is used each time - just a few drops.   . From my experience, removing the backing piece. seems less dangerous than pushing on the head.0 PLUS, I can also clean the backing piece at that0 point.  By the way, the surface seems to be made! of aluminium??????  Any comments?s   Sincerely yours,   Jerome Finem --4 To obtain the original e-mail address, please remove5 the ten characters which immediately follow the 'at'.:8 If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail7 address has been discontinued due a high volume of junkq5 e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be 7 obtained by replacing the four characters preceding theu. 'at' with the four digits of the current year.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 21:22:01 -0400n& From: "JustMe" <mc.moore@sympatico.ca>$ Subject: Re: TK70 tape drive problem9 Message-ID: <SzQFa.8132$0c4.775123@news20.bellglobal.com>t  K Just a thought, but the symptom you describe could also happen if you use a J newer format cartridge than the DECtape II, or try to write to a DECtape I (aka TK50) cartridge.n  I You might also want to try removing and reseating the controller board inyH the chassis -- its behind probably the first of the little metal covers,I likely labelled TLK70 or some such (can't quite recall).  ***** POWER OFFiK ***** Push in and 1/4 turn on the 2 screws will release them.  As I recall,yG the cable for the tape kind of 'dangles' across onto a connector at the L front of the board.  Push the connector tabs apart until the cable connectorI pops out, raise the top and bottom ZIF handles and the board should slidegK out. A pencil eraser across the board contacts has been known to do wonders J for cleaning off oil, oxide, etc.  Reverse the steps and you just may have your drive back.  J (then again, the poor old beast may have gone to its final reward........)    F "Adrian Stapley" <adrian@semleystation.spammed-to-hell.co.uk> wrote in2 message news:bc7qhl$1db$1@sparta.btinternet.com...    H I'm trying to get an old Microvax 3400 with VMS5.4 running again after 4F years idleness. Everything seems to have untimately come back to life,D except the TK70 drive, which did work before, but now gives an errorI message "Volume is not software enabled" when trying to mount a formattedW  tape or initialize a blank tape.  * Does anyone know what this message means ?  K I've so far taken the cover off and cleaned the led's, and checked that the.I tape is being latched by the leader and wound on to the spool for a shortg% way, but stops with the eror message.e  6 Show dev/full for the device shows a high error count.   Adrian# ---------------------------------- s   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 02:13:51 GMTo8 From: "Jerome H. Fine" <jhfineb9rv@b9rvnospamcompsys.to>$ Subject: Re: TK70 tape drive problem4 Message-ID: <3EE7E1C7.136DD3CA@b9rvnospamcompsys.to>   >JustMe wrote:  M > Just a thought, but the symptom you describe could also happen if you use aaL > newer format cartridge than the DECtape II, or try to write to a DECtape I > (aka TK50) cartridge.J   Jerome Fine replies:  = Contrary to what DEC wanted EVERYONE to believe, the physicalj< specs for a DECtape and a DECtape II were IDENTICAL - except= that normally the label was BROWN for the former and BLUE for0C the latter - PLUS the price for the latter was much higher as well.w  6 I have taken MANY DECtape media - and BULK erased themD after which there work just fine in a TK70.  If the tape was UNUSED,' then they worked in a TK70 immediately.i  @ A DLTtape III has different physical specs from a DECtape II, so> it will probably NOT work in a TK70 - even though the physical dimensions are very close.  ? In addition, after a DECtape has been written on by a TK50, thek= TK70 will still read the media, BUT the TK70 immediately goesa= into WRITE  PROTECT mode as soon as the media is loaded!!!!!!a  K > You might also want to try removing and reseating the controller board intJ > the chassis -- its behind probably the first of the little metal covers,K > likely labelled TLK70 or some such (can't quite recall).  ***** POWER OFFtM > ***** Push in and 1/4 turn on the 2 screws will release them.  As I recall, I > the cable for the tape kind of 'dangles' across onto a connector at thePN > front of the board.  Push the connector tabs apart until the cable connectorK > pops out, raise the top and bottom ZIF handles and the board should slideaM > out. A pencil eraser across the board contacts has been known to do wondersrL > for cleaning off oil, oxide, etc.  Reverse the steps and you just may have > your drive back.  ; All good points and useful if cleaning the head on the TK70t: does not work since the head cleaning step is probably the7 easier one to perform and is usually the one most oftenm responsible.   BUT  I  AGREE NOT  ALWAYS!!!!!   Sincerely yours,   Jerome Finer --4 To obtain the original e-mail address, please remove5 the ten characters which immediately follow the 'at'. 8 If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail7 address has been discontinued due a high volume of junkr5 e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be 7 obtained by replacing the four characters preceding theg. 'at' with the four digits of the current year.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 23:00:29 -04001" From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@istop.com>$ Subject: Re: TK70 tape drive problem) Message-ID: <3EE7ECB3.52EFBDD2@istop.com>    "Jerome H. Fine" wrote:vA > In addition, after a DECtape has been written on by a TK50, thec? > TK70 will still read the media, BUT the TK70 immediately goesd? > into WRITE  PROTECT mode as soon as the media is loaded!!!!!!a  L Unless you have a big fat nasty magnet around. Make the tape forget it was aC TK50, and the TK70 drive will hapily initialise the take as a TK70.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 23:29:08 -0400e3 From: "Homer J. Simpson" <hsimpson@burnsenergy.com>r$ Subject: Re: TK70 tape drive problem; Message-ID: <IgSFa.33673$gK2.28029@fe04.atl2.webusenet.com>   I As I recall, that means the error count exceeded some threshold.  Even ifrL you clean the head, it will still give the same message unless you reset theI error count (i.e. Reboot).  After cleaning and rebooting, do a SHOW ERROR B and see if there are any tape errors.  Then run a simple test likeK BACKUP/VERIFY/REWIND/LOG SYS$SYSTEM:*.EXE mka0:TEST.BCK.  When finished, do 3 another SHOW ERROR and see if the count increments.t    F "Adrian Stapley" <adrian@semleystation.spammed-to-hell.co.uk> wrote in2 message news:bc7qhl$1db$1@sparta.btinternet.com... >  > J > I'm trying to get an old Microvax 3400 with VMS5.4 running again after 4H > years idleness. Everything seems to have untimately come back to life,F > except the TK70 drive, which did work before, but now gives an errorK > message "Volume is not software enabled" when trying to mount a formatted-" > tape or initialize a blank tape. >1, > Does anyone know what this message means ? >@I > I've so far taken the cover off and cleaned the led's, and checked that1 thegK > tape is being latched by the leader and wound on to the spool for a shortl' > way, but stops with the eror message.e >n8 > Show dev/full for the device shows a high error count. >k > Adrian% > ---------------------------------- e >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 10:18:37 -0500 $ From: Lyle West <arf@ourtownusa.org> Subject: Re: uptime-alike . Message-ID: <3EE701FD.797ADA3B@ourtownusa.org>   Howard S Shubs wrote:d > Q > I need a program functionally like the UN*X "uptime" command.  Seems to me that  > I could write it.h > R > Getting the BOOTTIME and therefore the up-time of the machine is easy.  The partP > that has me stumped is how I'm going to figure out the rest, meaning the countN > of pending COM[O] processes.  The most recent internals data I've got is for( > VAX/VMS 3.6, so I'm kinda at sea here. >  > Suggestions? >  > -- -- nC Don't know if this is what you want, but you asked for suggestions:.   /*  J ==========================================================================  =  9  =  (C) Copyright 1993 The Trustees of Indiana University   = iD  =  Permission to use, copy, modify, and distribute this program forG  =  non-commercial use and without fee is hereby granted, provided thatDA  =  this copyright and permission notice appear on all copies andnH  =  supporting documentation, the name of Indiana University not be usedA  =  in advertising or publicity pertaining to distribution of then programoH  =  without specific prior permission, and notice be given in supportingC  =  documentation that copying and distribution is by permission ofe  =  Indiana University.   =  H  =  Indiana University makes no representations about the suitability ofA  =  this software for any purpose. It is provided "as is" withouto expresse  =  or implied warranty.  = s  J ==========================================================================  =  = Program: uptime.c  =  = History:v  = e   = Version: 1.0 - September 1992  = Authors: Larry Hughes#  = Comment: Initial implementation.w  =     = Version: 1.1 - September 1992  = Authors: Larry Hughes   = Comment: Few minor additions.  = m  = Version: 1.2 - January 2002 -  = Authors: Lyle W. West1  = Comment: Adjusted for VaxC --> DecC conversion@  = .  J ========================================================================== */   #define VERSION "V1.2"
 #ifdef __DECCi #pragma module UpTime VERSIONc #elseeD #module UpTime VERSION      /* should build with VaxC, not tested */ #endif   /*H ======================================================================== */ /* Includes */ /*H ======================================================================== */ #include <types.h> #include <descrip.h> #include <iodef.h> #include <jpidef.h>s #include <ssdef.h> #include <stdio.h> #include <syidef.h>e #include "statedef.h"e   /*H ======================================================================== */
 /* Defines */e /*H ======================================================================== */ #define TRUE  1m #define FALSE 0    /*F ====================================================================== */" /* Global Structure Definitions */ /*F ====================================================================== */ struct item_list o {t   unsigned short buffer_length;s   unsigned short item_code;e   int buffer_address;e   int ret_len_address; };   struct iosb_quadword r {x   int io_status;   int reserved;  };   struct times {d   int  value[2];   char buffer[23]; };   /*F ====================================================================== */ /* Global Variables */ /*F ====================================================================== */   /*F ====================================================================== */ /* Prototypes */ /*F ====================================================================== */ void scan_processes();   /*F ====================================================================== */ /* Scan Process List */  /*F ====================================================================== */ void scan_processes()e {r   int  status = SS$_NORMAL;aD   int  procs_total, procs_batch, procs_interactive, procs_detached, A        procs_network, procs_parent, procs_child, procs_suspended;c?   int  state_lef, state_hib, state_com, state_pfw, state_mwait,  state_other;   unsigned long pid = -1;@   struct times now, boot, diff;i   char days[6];p   char hours[12];e   char os_version[9];n   char node[17];  %   $DESCRIPTOR(now_desc,  now.buffer);e&   $DESCRIPTOR(boot_desc, boot.buffer);&   $DESCRIPTOR(diff_desc, diff.buffer);     struct   { 
     int type;!
     int mode;X     int state;     int pid;
     int mpid;o   } job;     struct iosb_quadword iosb;  #   struct item_list jpi_itemlist[] =f   {a=     { sizeof(job.type),   JPI$_JOBTYPE,      &job.type,  0 },e=     { sizeof(job.mode),   JPI$_MODE,         &job.mode,  0 },i=     { sizeof(job.state),  JPI$_STATE,        &job.state, 0 },c=     { sizeof(job.pid),    JPI$_PID,          &job.pid,   0 },s=     { sizeof(job.mpid),   JPI$_MASTER_PID,   &job.mpid,  0 },D     { 0, 0, 0, 0 },    };  #   struct item_list sys_itemlist[] =C   {b;     { sizeof(boot.value),   SYI$_BOOTTIME, boot.value, 0 }, ;     { sizeof(node),         SYI$_NODENAME, node,       0 },l;     { sizeof(os_version)-1, SYI$_VERSION,  os_version, 0 },u     { 0, 0, 0, 0 },    };  C   procs_total = procs_batch = procs_interactive = procs_detached =  E     procs_network = procs_parent = procs_child = procs_suspended = 0;O@   state_lef = state_hib = state_com = state_pfw = state_mwait =      state_other = 0;  
 #ifdef ARF/   memset(os_version, '\0', sizeof(os_version));n"   memset(now,  '\0', sizeof(now));#   memset(diff, '\0', sizeof(diff));C#   memset(boot, '\0', sizeof(boot));s#   memset(node, '\0', sizeof(node));h #elsen,   memset(os_version, 0, sizeof(os_version));+   memset(now.value,  0, sizeof(now.value));k-   memset(now.buffer,  0, sizeof(now.buffer)); ,   memset(diff.value, 0, sizeof(diff.value));.   memset(diff.buffer, 0, sizeof(diff.buffer));,   memset(boot.value, 0, sizeof(boot.value));.   memset(boot.buffer, 0, sizeof(boot.buffer));    memset(node, 0, sizeof(node)); #endif     /* Get the current time */   lib$date_time(&now_desc);t<   lib$convert_date_string(&now_desc, now.value, 0, 0, 0, 0);  )   /* Get the boot time and VMS version */i7   status = sys$getsyiw(0, 0, 0, sys_itemlist, 0, 0, 0);y/   lib$sys_asctim(0, &boot_desc, boot.value, 0);e  8   /* Subtract current and boot time to get difference */3   lib$sub_times(now.value, boot.value, diff.value);)/   lib$sys_asctim(0, &diff_desc, diff.value, 0); ,   sscanf(diff.buffer, "%s %s", days, hours);  !   /* Print initial information */r
 #ifdef ARF0   printf("\nVMS:\t%s (%s)\n", os_version, node);$   printf("Date:\t%s\n", now.buffer);4   printf("Uptime:\t%s day%c, %s hours (since %s)\n",;          days, (days==1 ? '\0' : 's'), hours, boot.buffer);E #elset0   printf("\nVMS:\t%s (%s)\n", os_version, node);$   printf("Date:\t%s\n", now.buffer);3   printf("Uptime:\t%s day%c, %s hours, Boot: %s\n",i;          days, (days==1 ? '\0' : 's'), hours, boot.buffer);  #endif     /* Scan each process */d   while (status == SS$_NORMAL) o   {e$     memset(&job, '\0', sizeof(job));@     status = sys$getjpiw(0, &pid, 0, jpi_itemlist, &iosb, 0, 0);     switch (status)b     {n       case SS$_NOMOREPROC:         break;         case SS$_SUSPENDED:          procs_total++;         procs_suspended++; 	status = SS$_NORMAL;r         break;         case SS$_NORMAL:         procs_total++;         switch (job.mode)5	         {            case JPI$K_OTHER:a             procs_detached++;u             break;             case JPI$K_NETWORK:7             procs_network++;             break;             case JPI$K_BATCH:d             procs_batch++; r             break;  !           case JPI$K_INTERACTIVE:t!             procs_interactive++;  ,             if ((job.type == JPI$K_LOCAL) ||-                 (job.type == JPI$K_REMOTE) ||o+                 (job.type == JPI$K_DIALUP)).
             {n'               if (job.pid == job.mpid) F                  procs_parent++;                else e                 procs_child++;
             }m             break;
         };         switch(job.state)s	         {a           case SCH$C_COM:            case SCH$C_COMO:             state_com++;             break;             case SCH$C_HIB:r           case SCH$C_HIBO:             state_hib++;             break;             case SCH$C_LEF:            case SCH$C_LEFO:             state_lef++;             break;             case SCH$C_PFW:r             state_pfw++;             break;
 #ifdef ARF           case SCH$C_MWAIT:o             state_mwait++;             break; #endif           default:             state_other++;             break;
         };         break;         default:         exit(status);      }P   }d  <     /* Changes below are cosmetic, not a conversion issue */  
 #ifdef ARF<   printf("Logins:\t%d interactive (with %d subprocesses)\n",     procs_parent, procs_child);s  	   printf(nC     "Procs:\tTotal %d, Interactive %d, Batch %d, Detach %d, Net %d,L Suspended %n@     procs_total, procs_interactive, procs_batch, procs_detached, procs_network,     procs_suspended);   	   printf(pE    "States:\tLEF %d, HIB %d, COM %d, PFW %d, MWAIT %d, Other %d\n\n",m;    state_lef, state_hib, state_com, state_pfw, state_mwait, 
 state_other);  #elsen;   printf("Logins:\t%d interactive with %d subprocesses\n", S     procs_parent, procs_child);   E   printf("Procs:\tTotal: %d, Interactive: %d, Batch: %d, Detach: %d",lA     procs_total, procs_interactive, procs_batch, procs_detached);eG   printf(", Net: %d, Suspended: %d\n", procs_network, procs_suspended);l  7   printf("States:\tLEF: %d, HIB: %d, COM: %d, PFW: %d",a0     state_lef, state_hib, state_com, state_pfw);C     printf(", MWAIT: %d, Other: %d\n\n", state_mwait, state_other);  #endif }r   /*H ======================================================================== */ /* Main Program */ /*H ======================================================================== */ main(int argc, char *argv[]) {    if (argc != 1)     printf("Usage: uptime\n");   else     scan_processes();  }   /* end of program */   -----    /* (statedef.h) */ /* +  $  *  SCHEDULING STATES   (statedef.h)  * -  *  DEFINITIONS START AT 1 h  */u   H #define SCH$C_COLPG  1           /* COLLIDED PAGE WAIT                   */D #define SCH$C_RWAST  2           /* MUTEX AND MISCELLANEOUS RESOURCE WAIT*/H #define SCH$C_CEF  3             /* COMMON EVENT FLAG WAIT STATE         */H #define SCH$C_PFW  4             /* PAGE FAULT WAIT                      */H #define SCH$C_LEF  5             /* LOCAL EVENT FLAG WAIT                */H #define SCH$C_LEFO  6            /* LOCAL EVENT FLAG WAIT OUT OF BALANCE */H #define SCH$C_HIB  7             /* HIBERNATE WAIT                       */H #define SCH$C_HIBO  8            /* HIBERNATE WAIT OUT OF BALANCE SET    */H #define SCH$C_SUSP  9            /* SUSPENDED                            */H #define SCH$C_SUSPO  10          /* SUSPENDED OUT OF THE BALANCE SET     */H #define SCH$C_FPG  11            /* FREEPAGE WAIT                        */H #define SCH$C_COM  12            /* COMPUTE, IN BALANCE SET STATE        */H #define SCH$C_COMO  13           /* COMPUTE, OUT OF BALANCE SET STATE    */H #define SCH$C_CUR  14            /* CURRENT PROCESS STATE                */    F #define    RSN$_ASTWAIT    1    /* RWAST - AST wait (system or special kernel AST) */: #define    RSN$_MAILBOX    2    /* RWMBX - Mailbox full */E #define    RSN$_NPDYNMEM   3    /* RWNPG - Nonpaged Dynamic memory */e@ #define    RSN$_PGFILE     4    /* RWPFF - (1) Page file full */B #define    RSN$_PGDYNMEM   5    /* RWPAG - Paged dynamic memory */C #define    RSN$_BRKTHRU    6    /* RWBRK - (1) Breakthru (reply) */TG #define    RSN$_IACLOCK    7    /* RWIMG - (1) Image activation lock */eB #define    RSN$_JQUOTA     8    /* RWQUO - (1) Job pooled quota */A #define    RSN$_LOCKID     9    /* RWLCK - (1) Lock identifier */u= #define    RSN$_SWPFILE    10   /* RWSWP - Swap file space */aF #define    RSN$_MPLEMPTY   11   /* RWMPE - Modified page list empty */D #define    RSN$_MPWBUSY    12   /* RWMPB - Modified page writer busyD #define    RSN$_SCS        13   /* RWSCS - Distributed loack manager wait */o@ #define    RSN$_CLUSTRAN   14   /* RWCLU - Cluster transition */ #define    RSN$_CPUCAP     15c? #define    RSN$_CLUSRV     16       /* (1)   may not be used */e #define    RSN$_SNAPSHOT   17- #define    RSN$_MAX        180   %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%o  & Sorry for the size posted to to group. --   Lyle W. West  H To reply: Try ell with three dubya's and at with mninter arf net and use dot rather than arfc __   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jun 2003 09:27:36 -0700' From: Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net>a Subject: Re: uptime-alikes) Message-ID: <bc7l9o0121r@drn.newsguy.com>v  M In article <VIlpd$sTmHA9@eisner.encompasserve.org>, young_r@encompasserve.orge says...t >i% >nodename_is_here:/home/youngr>uptime I >  11:51AM   up 4 days,  20:39,  4 users,  load average: 0.36, 0.61, 0.74e  G Right, where the final list of three numbers is an approximation of thehN computable queue length over the last 15, 5, and 1 minutes, respectively.  I'mI not trying to go that far.  I just want to grab a count of the total (allbM priorities) queue length at the current instant.  I figure to make a criticalg code section which   Go to priority 31  grab this info return to normal priority  returns the info  M Pretty straight-forward.  I -could- use that critical section on some kind of P schedule to completely emulate UN*X "uptime", but I'm not sure I want to go thatP far.  For all I know, the number might be maintained somewhere in S0 space, so ID don't need to go out and walk the priority queues, counting entries.   --  ! Today on Paper-view: Pulp Fictionp   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jun 2003 12:54:52 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)a Subject: Re: uptime-alikeR3 Message-ID: <bmntiz4HHy6X@eisner.encompasserve.org>   S In article <bc7mim016dq@drn.newsguy.com>, Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> writes::= > In article <3EE701FD.797ADA3B@ourtownusa.org>, Lyle says...N > E >>Don't know if this is what you want, but you asked for suggestions:  > L > $GETJPI() loops are fun, agreed.  I've a lot of experience with them.  OneQ > problem is that they MODIFY the process state if you're not careful with them. :L > They create an AST, which runs in the context of the target process(es) toQ > gather information.  That means that you swap processes in, in order to look at;P > them.  There's a way around this (JPI$_GETJPI_CONTROL_FLAGS), but I didn't see > it in your code.   But it was in my post.  A I also explained why such disruption is unlikely with JPI$_STATE.;   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 20:16:23 -0400 ' From: Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net>I Subject: Re: uptime-alike < Message-ID: <howard-1E5401.20162311062003@enews.newsguy.com>  3 In article <bmntiz4HHy6X@eisner.encompasserve.org>,s/  Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote:g   > But it was in my post.  % Which hadn't been read at that point.I   -- e4 Today, on Paper-view: The World Origami Championship   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jun 2003 10:25:36 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)eE Subject: Re: uptime-alike (Counting processes with state COM or COMO)s3 Message-ID: <sDYpTjfujqkL@eisner.encompasserve.org>-  S In article <bc79kn02ru9@drn.newsguy.com>, Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> writes:oQ > I need a program functionally like the UN*X "uptime" command.  Seems to me thatt > I could write it.e > R > Getting the BOOTTIME and therefore the up-time of the machine is easy.  The partP > that has me stumped is how I'm going to figure out the rest, meaning the countN > of pending COM[O] processes.  The most recent internals data I've got is for( > VAX/VMS 3.6, so I'm kinda at sea here.  ) In what regard is SYS$GETJPI inadequate ?s  C The documentation for the  JPI$_STATE item lists both SCH$C_COM and-C SCH$C_COMO.  Without looking it up, logic dictates that informationeE is still stored in the PCB rather than the PHD, meaning retrieving itt1 will not perturb the system by causing an inswap.a  A To be extra sure, you can specify the JPI$M_NO_TARGET_INSWAP flagY* for the JPI$_GETJPI_CONTROL_FLAGS item :-)   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jun 2003 09:53:59 -0700' From: Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net>rE Subject: Re: uptime-alike (Counting processes with state COM or COMO) ) Message-ID: <bc7mr70179d@drn.newsguy.com>s  I In article <sDYpTjfujqkL@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net- says...-  * >In what regard is SYS$GETJPI inadequate ?  I In general, I want this program to invoke as little overhead as possible.d    B >To be extra sure, you can specify the JPI$M_NO_TARGET_INSWAP flag+ >for the JPI$_GETJPI_CONTROL_FLAGS item :-)r  ( Yes, as I just replied to Lyle West. :-D  N A $GETJPI() loop could work.  I'm just concerned with the Heisenburg principleE of affecting the results by adding more to my program than is needed.s   -- M! Today on Paper-view: Pulp Fictionm   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jun 2003 12:56:25 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)eE Subject: Re: uptime-alike (Counting processes with state COM or COMO)s3 Message-ID: <Ia+IHhIXf7Gb@eisner.encompasserve.org>   S In article <bc7mr70179d@drn.newsguy.com>, Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> writes:tK > In article <sDYpTjfujqkL@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net=	 > says...= > + >>In what regard is SYS$GETJPI inadequate ?h > K > In general, I want this program to invoke as little overhead as possible.l  C SYS$GETJPI (properly used) incurs as little overhead as is possible E without running the risk of crashing your system after a VMS upgrade.c   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 20:17:26 -0400o' From: Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net>tE Subject: Re: uptime-alike (Counting processes with state COM or COMO)i< Message-ID: <howard-D892E2.20172611062003@enews.newsguy.com>  3 In article <Ia+IHhIXf7Gb@eisner.encompasserve.org>,b/  Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote:D  E > SYS$GETJPI (properly used) incurs as little overhead as is possiblepG > without running the risk of crashing your system after a VMS upgrade.h  F Looks like I might as well use it, then.  I've got ITEM_LIST_3 burned  into my hands already.  :-)    -- p4 Today, on Paper-view: The World Origami Championship   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.323 ************************