1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 15 Jun 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 329       Contents:- Re: How to configure Batch Queues for cluster - Re: How to configure Batch Queues for cluster  Re: HP #1 in StorageP Re: IBM will buy SUN, it's obvious (Re: IBM won't buy VMS ... has NIH syndrome t/ Re: IBM won't buy VMS ... has NIH syndrome too! / Re: IBM won't buy VMS ... has NIH syndrome too! / Re: IBM won't buy VMS ... has NIH syndrome too! / Re: IBM won't buy VMS ... has NIH syndrome too! / Re: IBM won't buy VMS ... has NIH syndrome too! / Re: IBM won't buy VMS ... has NIH syndrome too! - Re: Knowledge of VMS tests for job candidates 3 problem after upgrading to compaq (DEC) fortran 7.5 7 Re: problem after upgrading to compaq (DEC) fortran 7.5 ' Re: TK70 tape drive problem - Success !  Re: VMS Freeware CDs  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 11:41:50 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> 6 Subject: Re: How to configure Batch Queues for cluster' Message-ID: <3EEB504E.B723BAC3@fsi.net>    David Froble wrote:  > [snip]O > Don't forget how much more flexible this is if it's put in a seperate command N > file, which can be called from SYSTARTUP_VMS as well as used at other times.  > OH! HEAVEN FORBID! Can't be editing proc.'s all over the disk!  6 ...as I have been told when suggesting exactly that...   I even promote using:   5 $ FSP = F$SEARCH( "SYS$STARTUP:appname_STARTUP.COM" )  $ IF FSP .NES. "" THEN @&FSP  : ...since the SYS$STARTUP search list includes SYS$MANAGER:  % DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ sh log sys$startup A    "SYS$STARTUP" = "SYS$SYSROOT:[SYS$STARTUP]" (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)          = "SYS$MANAGER" < 1  "SYS$MANAGER" = "SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSMGR]" (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)  8 ...AND doing cluster-common startup tasks via proc.'s inF SYS$COMMON:[SYSMGR] with node-specific tasks in SYS$SPECIFIC:[SYSMGR].  3 "Oh, NO! ...DJD! That's too much work to maintain!"   A Needles to say, I disagree. (No, I didn't forget the second "s"!)    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 14:55:16 -0400 % From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> 6 Subject: Re: How to configure Batch Queues for cluster/ Message-ID: <vemrsmcmkl16db@news.supernews.com>   + <briggs@encompasserve.org> wrote in message - news:rJ2W$Gs4prJ+@eisner.encompasserve.org... @ > In article <vejq09e4ahbke4@news.supernews.com>, "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> writes:@ > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message% > > news:3EE92CA4.E1B439A3@fsi.net... 
 > > [snip] > >>A > >> You could do this in your SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM procedure in the  SYS$MANAGER 
 > >> path: > >>I > >> $ INIT/QUE/BATCH SYS$BATCH/GENERIC=(SYS$BATCH_node1,SYS$BATCH_node2) " > >> $ NODE = F$GETSYI("NODENAME")2 > >> $ INIT/QUE/BATCH SYS$BATCH_'NODE'/JOB_LIMIT=4 > >> > > L > > You don't have to put INIT/QUE commands in SYSSTARTUP_VMS.COM.  INIT/QUE isI > > a one time command (unless you want to make changes).  The only thing  you H > > have to do at startup is start the queue or enable autostart queues. >  > Absolutely true. > E > But if your queue mangler database has a habit of blowing itself to A > smithereens or if you restore the queue database from an online H > backup (/IGNORE=INTERLOCK) and thus blow it away yourself, it is handyG > to be able to recreate your queues and handier still if they recreate 
 > themselves.  > * > At least that was my reasoning for using > % > $ INIT /QUEUE blah blah blah /START  >   E I use a command procedure that uses f$getqui to build another command J procedure that will recreate all of the queues, forms and characteristics.K That's how I backup the queue database.  It also makes creating or changing K a queue a one step process.  I just enter the SET or INIT command,  I don't J have to edit any command procedures.  One downside is that I can't use CMSI to track the changes but, in my current environment, that's not much of a  problem.   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Jun 2003 14:04:06 -0700. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) Subject: Re: HP #1 in Storage = Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0306141304.6431c1d3@posting.google.com>   v keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) wrote in message news:<cf15391e.0306121548.682fb980@posting.google.com>...A > IDC Quarterly Report Affirms HP's No. 1 Position in Key Storage  > Categories > E > HP extended its lead over competitors in total disk storage systems A > factory revenue and held the No. 1 position in other major disk A > storage markets during the first quarter of calendar year 2003, 0 > according to a report issued June 6 by IDC.[1] > F > Overall, HP built its lead in worldwide disk storage systems factoryE > revenue quarter-over-quarter with 26.3 percent share and maintained F > its No. 1 position in the total external disk storage system market. > H > In the growing market of open storage area networks, HP maintained itsH > solid lead position for the third straight quarter, posting 28 percentD > share in factory revenue -- more than three points higher than the > nearest competitor.  > ; > http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/2003/030606a.html  > D > [1] IDC, "Worldwide Quarterly Storage Systems Tracker," June 2003.    F Fine. How about VMS? If HP can gain market share for these things, whyD can't HP do the same VMS? I don't care about their storage and such.  D Great, HP will have lots of storage running for other OS's. How does this help VMS?   Alan E. Feldman    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 17:53:02 -0400  From: Everhart <ge@gce.com> Y Subject: Re: IBM will buy SUN, it's obvious (Re: IBM won't buy VMS ... has NIH syndrome t * Message-ID: <bcg5g4$vl$2@bob.news.rcn.net>  C Ayup. Also if they bought Sun, they would own various unix licenses B that Sun has, which would let them make SCO go away. That might be2 attractive enough for them to be even thinking it.     Fabio Cardoso wrote:   > Guys > ; > With the Sun share valuing US$ 5,00 ... IBM acquiring Sun : > would be much more profitable to them than buying VMS !  >  > 	 > Regards  >  > FC     ------------------------------    Date: 14 Jun 2003 12:20:55 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)8 Subject: Re: IBM won't buy VMS ... has NIH syndrome too!= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0306141120.5299e7e3@posting.google.com>   d "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message news:<ceOdnWYO1q6wtHejXTWcpg@metrocast.net>...7 > "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message 9 > news:d7791aa1.0306131101.146707c7@posting.google.com... @ > > Well, I wrote for the heck of it after the Inquirers article< > > about maybe IBM buying VMS, and it seems they are either< > > too stupid, or has "not invented here" syndrome also ... > E > No:  they seem to have a very well-informed view of the situation - J > considerably better-informed than HP's corporate leaders appear to have. > K > Resurrecting an OS that has been neglected as long as VMS has been is not J > easy.  It would make sense for HP to do so because the alternative is toJ > continue bleeding existing high-margin customers (in many cases to otherK > vendors) - whereas with real support they could turn the situation on its N > head.  But for another vendor to try to pick up the pieces and put them backM > together would be far less realistic:  some existing customers would prefer M > to remain with HP, and for the rest the inevitable turmoil of the ownership K > transition (including the question of how many of the often irreplaceable L > *people* who support VMS would be lost in the process) would raise as manyD > doubts about the system's viability as cHumPaq's incompetence has.  A you still can't read yet, can you?  They are agreeing that VMS is E still and has been the last 25 years superior as they state the other @ os's are catching up!  But like a former DEC clustering engineer? who now works for unbreakable linux stated, they may be able to = come close, but noone will ever be able to 100% duplicate VMS > clustering ... VMS may have been neglected, but what can otherA os's run that VMS can't?  Apache proves that you can port unix or D any other code easily to VMS and benefit by it's superior clustering@ and increased security and reliability ... VMS can do today whatC any other platform can do and better, especially web apps ... close B only counts in horseshoes ... coming close in a computing platformD to run your business means paying a lot extra for security and other? features that you could have had buying VMS in the first place! E VMS has ruled for 25 years, and it will rule for another 25, at least > for me it will ... that means everyone else is at a competitve= disadvantage ... coming close in todays business world means   "YOU LOSE"!    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Jun 2003 12:27:26 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)8 Subject: Re: IBM won't buy VMS ... has NIH syndrome too!= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0306141127.1b7ba971@posting.google.com>   d "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message news:<ceOdnWYO1q6wtHejXTWcpg@metrocast.net>...B > > You ask why it would not make sense for IBM to buy the OpenVMSF > > business. As a former employee of Digital Equipment Corporation, IE > > share your sense of pride in the quality and functionality of the J > > OpenVMS operating system. When VMS was first being developed, it trulyH > > represented innovation and leadership in the industry and many newerH > > operating systems have borrowed concepts and ideas from it. However,J > > while OpenVMS continues to occupy a substantial niche market position,E > > most enterprise customers are now looking for more open operating  > > environments.   = well, they certainly got that alright!  Just look at the cert < counts!  If that is open computing, I think I'll stick to my' good old proprietary/legacy OpenVMS ...    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Jun 2003 12:48:41 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)8 Subject: Re: IBM won't buy VMS ... has NIH syndrome too!= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0306141148.1d4f652e@posting.google.com>   d "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message news:<ceOdnWYO1q6wtHejXTWcpg@metrocast.net>...< > > I don't think that it would be economically viable for aJ > > company like IBM to acquire the asset and bring it back up to currency > > in terms of capabilities.   H and what capabilities would that be?  Security? Reliability? Clustering?6 That is what the unix/linus crowd is searching for ...  * > > It's an unfortunate downward spiral of= > > higher maintenance fees causing more customers to defect.   ? our bronze support contract has been the same low price for the < last five years now ... and I guarantee we pay a ton less in$ maintenance than having IBM support!  
 > > There are E > > several attractive substitutes to OpenVMS today, with the various J > > UNIX-based operating systems approaching similar levels of reliability > > and availability.   B Name them!  I will gladly guide you to the cert site to prove just@ how secure and reliable they all are ... and why would I want to> go and buy something that approaches what I already 100% have?  8 > > And, of course, OpenVMS's traditional competitors inF > > products like IBM's zOS and OS/400 participate in many of the same > > market areas.   8 OS400?  been there, done that?  Can you say "NIGHTMARE"?  9 > > I'm sure that OpenVMS will be running many enterprise I > > applications for years to come, but the reality is that this is now a I > > mature product without a lot of growth opportunity. This doesn't make ' > > an attractive business proposition.   A I guess an os with security, reliability, and the best clustering = just doesn't sell today ... people evidently want garbage ...   C if this is how supposedly intelligent people think out there today,  then "God help us"!    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 17:00:02 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>8 Subject: Re: IBM won't buy VMS ... has NIH syndrome too!) Message-ID: <3EEB8CD0.9F5B3452@istop.com>    Bob Ceculski wrote: ? > well, they certainly got that alright!  Just look at the cert > > counts!  If that is open computing, I think I'll stick to my) > good old proprietary/legacy OpenVMS ...     K When you management comes to you and tell you that they have decided to run M SAP or some other application that is no longer available on VMS, what do you  tell them ?   L I wouldn't care if VMS were proprietary *AND* all the applications one wouldK ever need were available on VMS. (think Windows, it is like that). But when J you are missing applications because they aren't being ported/supported onL VMS, then you need an "open system" so that you can port the freeware stuff.N But unfortunatly, whil you may be able to get stuff like XV, OSU, Mozzilla etc. to VMS, stuff like SAP still won't run on VMS.  M Sure, VMS still has those medical applications. And lottery and 911 emergency L support software. But that makes it an almost "embedded device" system since its niche is so narrow.   K VMS needs to break out of its cage and prosper again. The current folks may K have succeeded in keeping VMS alive on life support against all the attacks 3 from palmer, curly and carly, but there is a limit.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 17:49:49 -0400  From: Everhart <ge@gce.com> 8 Subject: Re: IBM won't buy VMS ... has NIH syndrome too!* Message-ID: <bcg5ab$vl$1@bob.news.rcn.net>  A One of the problems IBM would have with VMS is that it so closely C matches what has been getting put into MVS/zOS over the years, with I rather less tape operating system heritage. I happened to be looking over B a detailed security discussion of z/OS a couple days ago and notedD that with VMS alone, or in a couple cases VMS plus some free addins,A could do exactly the same things, mostly in exactly the same way.   C The mainframe market is not one IBM would willingly jeapordize, and D if they were to be selling VMS on a merchant semiconductor ship likeF Itanium, it might cannibalize the z/OS market more than anything else.  D Much better for an IBM executive to "decide" that VMS needs too muchF fixing up for them to use. Actually it's good market defense for theirI markets, and refusal to do something which, even if seriously entertained M by them, would risk harm to one of their large markets. In a similar position E I think any responsible and informed person would be obliged to state K something similar, regardless of the state of VMS' functionality, features,  robustness, or whatnot.   I If HP is unable or unwilling to make a go of VMS, sadly I don't think any 0 white knights are anywhere in the country round.   Glenn Everhart   Bill Todd wrote:  7 > "David Froble" <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in message ( > news:3EEA8B3D.9000409@tsoft-inc.com... > ; >>I cannot believe that I have to for once agree with boob.  >  > , > Think again and perhaps you'll reconsider. >  >  >>Bob Ceculski wrote:  >> >>? >>>Well, I wrote for the heck of it after the Inquirers article ; >>>about maybe IBM buying VMS, and it seems they are either ; >>>too stupid, or has "not invented here" syndrome also ... ; >>>Sad, isn't it?  They call VMS mature and suggest unix or : >>>$%gag#$%! os400 as an alternative when VMS runs circles0 >>>around these and every other os out there ... >>>  >>>Bob,  >>> H >>>Your recent e-mail query to Sam Palmisano regarding an article in theA >>>Inquirer.net has been forwarded to me for review and response.  >> >> >><snip> >> >> >>>with the various I >>>UNIX-based operating systems approaching similar levels of reliability  >>>and availability. >> >>F >>Basically an admission that VMS still is a leader in reliability and' >>availability.  Other are APPROACHING!  >  > : > Yup - they understand, and aren't too proud to admit it. >  > 5 >>Don't these people even understand what they write?  >  > L > Better than HP does.  And they also understand just how badly VMS has beenK > dealt with over the years by its owner - probably better than most people M > here do, having become so inured to it by now (everyone else already having M > given up and left).  VMS is beyond any shadow of a doubt on the way out, so J > much so that the idea of someone else buying it and making a go of it isL > downright laughable to any objective observer (which, of course, there areK > very few of around these parts).  VMS is still basically good enough that I > its owner could stand a chance of resurrecting it, but too far gone for  > anyone else to.  >  > H >>My IBM stock would be worth more if they weren't wasting money on such > 	 > idiots!  > M > I guess prolonged exposure to DEC, Compaq, and now HP has completely ruined 7 > your ability to recognize competence when you see it.  >  > - bill >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 18:10:00 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> 8 Subject: Re: IBM won't buy VMS ... has NIH syndrome too!' Message-ID: <3EEBAB48.7A6BEA00@fsi.net>    Bob Ceculski wrote:  > [snip]E > if this is how supposedly intelligent people think out there today,  > then "God help us"!    Welcome to the Real World, Neo!    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 11:45:25 -0700 " From: GreyCloud <cumulus@mist.com>6 Subject: Re: Knowledge of VMS tests for job candidates( Message-ID: <3EEB6D45.D2F6C0C4@mist.com>   David Froble wrote:  >  > JF Mezei wrote:  >  > > GreyCloud wrote: > > ? > >>All inside info and people that I know that is it happening ? > >>to.  I really don't understand what a traffic ticket has to  > >>do with a security risk. > >> > > M > > Consider how a company such as Argenbright which had so many contracts to P > > provide airport security was destroyed because so many of its employees wereP > > found to have had questionable records. The company has had to drop its name! > > because of all the bad press.  > > O > > Considering current environment in the USA, it is no surprise that military Q > > contractors would want all "i"s dotted to avoid embarassing their benefactors Z > > (the current administration) shoudl some of their employees generate some controversy. > > P > > Not as bad as someone prevented from flying because he has a name similar toQ > > that of a suspected arab even if that name is the arab equivalent of John Doe  > > or John Smith. > = > How about denied 'due process' and 'confront your accuser'?  > Q > The FAA is required to pull a pilot license if the zealots determine a pilot is O > a risk, and there is no recourse!  No hearing!  No trial!  And if the zealots O > determine that the information they have is classified, you don't even get to & > hear WHY this action has been taken! >   ; That is what the NIS (Naval Investigative Service) is doing ; now to Federal Employees.  One misdemeanor and out the door < you go... but a ticket that is 20 years old!?!  Something is really rotten going on.   Q > > George Orwell erred by 17 years in his predictions. I just find it rather odd O > > that americans were always so vocal against some national identity card but O > > are saying nothing about plans to monitor every financial transaction, even N > > those outside the USA as much as they can, and to listen in on all emails. > >  > M > The Bush administration has got to go.  You may expect this from a bleeding N > heart liberal, but how about from a 'card carrying' Republican conservative?L > The questions I have are whatever happened to reducing government, gettingM > government out of people's lives, and such?  Unless the Democrats are total O > idiots, (which many usually are), the 2004 presidential election is theirs to U > lose.  All they have to do is believe in the constitution, freedom, and the people.  > B > As Dick Rutan has said, "freedom is more important than safety"! > K > How did VMS job testing get so far off topic, and me back on the soapbox?  >     It is still about jobs isn't it?   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 17:53:54 GMT " From: hoblit@liii.com (Sam Hoblit)< Subject: problem after upgrading to compaq (DEC) fortran 7.5, Message-ID: <3eeb5d3d.7674114@news.liii.com>   Hi -  9 I recently got the new SPL for alpha VMS. We're currently 5 running VMS 7.2-2 and we had fortran 7.4-1 installed. 6 I'm planning on soon upgrading to VMS 7.3-1, but can't9 right now. However, the SPD for fortran 7.5 said it only  5 needs version 7.1 or higher so I decided to go ahead  ; with the upgrade of the runtime libraries, fortran, and the 4 cxml now. I do the upgrade and everything goes fine,= post-installation test goes fine, and I replace the installed 5 images for the rtl as mentioned in the release notes. 6 Now, I try to compile some routines and except for the= most trivial routines ("hello world" test programs, etc), the , compiler crashes with the following message:  6  F90-F-FATAL, **Internal compiler error: specification9  exception signal raised** Please report this error along :  with the circumstances in which it occurred in a Software  Problem Report.  5 No line number given, and most of our production code 9 raises this exception. I also added the ECO1 for both the F rtl and fortran but it didn't help. I've been through the installation> manual, SPD, & release notes looking for something. Has anyone< else seen this with fortran 7.5-1 or 7.5-3 on VMS 7.2-2? For= now I just reverted back to 7.4-1, which works. Our 7.2-2 is   fully patched, btw.    Sam  hoblit@liii.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 21:26:07 +0200 7 From: "Michael Metcalf" <michaelmetcalf@compuserve.com> @ Subject: Re: problem after upgrading to compaq (DEC) fortran 7.5/ Message-ID: <bcfss1$oov$01$1@news.t-online.com>   / "Sam Hoblit" <hoblit@liii.com> wrote in message & news:3eeb5d3d.7674114@news.liii.com... > 8 >  F90-F-FATAL, **Internal compiler error: specification; >  exception signal raised** Please report this error along < >  with the circumstances in which it occurred in a Software >  Problem Report. >   < Do just that! It can't be more clear. It's a compiler error.   Mike Metcalf   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 13:47:47 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>0 Subject: Re: TK70 tape drive problem - Success !) Message-ID: <3EEB5FBE.51AF21DC@istop.com>    "John E. Malmberg" wrote: J > Experience at a site I was at is that plugging in disks and tapes to theI > chassis would sometimes result in a power supply glitch that was enough  > to start a reboot cycle.    G I have disconnected TK50 and TK70 drives from my all mighty microvax II M without problems (altough I am aware of the risks involved). Note that in the F case of the all mighty microvax II, the drive is in a differnt box and$ different power supply than the cpu.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 17:35:11 -0400  From: Everhart <ge@gce.com>  Subject: Re: VMS Freeware CDs + Message-ID: <bcg4eu$slj$1@bob.news.rcn.net>   D It would be nice to be able to make the growing collections for nextE CDs visible but there are firewalls and so on between VMS engineering H and everything else, and the freeware CDs were not, at least a few yearsE back, that high a priority. When I helped master the V3 ones the info D lived on a few VMS machines inside engineering till the masters wereH burned. Likewise if I had a good enough net connection I might leave theJ prelim sigtape stuff for VLT03A up for the world. But it isn't so. CharterL Communications around here does not have cable net service, nor does VerizonL offer DSL, nor anyone else I have found to now. Oddly enough, Comcast servesK many areas a mile or two away, but they will not "take" Charter's territory M even where begged to do so be the homeowner (me). So far also Charter has not C responded when I asked when they might have cable net here, either.    Glenn Everhart      Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote:a > In article <20030611.4525900.702163943@imagnu.geo>, Andrew Balaam <abalaam@yahoo.co.uk> writes:  > F >>Does anyone know if the images of the VMS freeware CDs are availableF >>somewhere on the Internet for downloading? If so, where would I find >>them?  >  > 9 > Not from DEC^WCOMPAQ^WHPQ and not from DECUS^WENCOMPASS : > but HPQ offers a collection of such freeware products at > 5 > 	http://www.openvms.compaq.com/freeware/freeware50/  > N > But note, the webserver contains often more recent (if not current) versionsK > of the products on the equally named CDs, so having the CDs is quite nice K > to get an overview and insight. But to use the products I suggest finding > > the current version in the internet (eg. on HPQs webserver). >  > -Peter > H > PS: I think, the should have started a /freeware60/ tree and when in aH > few months the VMS V7.3-2 comes out a snapshot of this tree should get: > to the freeware CDs and a new /freeware70/ should start. >    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.329 ************************