1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 18 Jun 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 336       Contents:/ "Compaq Fibre Channel Tape Controller" and VMS? / Re: Another unix/linux cert ... but not on VMS! / Re: Another unix/linux cert ... but not on VMS! / Re: Another unix/linux cert ... but not on VMS! / Re: Another unix/linux cert ... but not on VMS! / Re: Another unix/linux cert ... but not on VMS! / Re: Another unix/linux cert ... but not on VMS! / Re: Another unix/linux cert ... but not on VMS! % Re: Backup Software for VMS and Linux  Re: cxx performance + DCL$AL_TAB_VEC equivalent for OpenVMS Alpha E Re: DECwindows Motif to be updated (was: SEC:U MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1...) , Re: Do's and don'ts about cleaning keyboards, Re: Do's and don'ts about cleaning keyboards, RE: Do's and don'ts about cleaning keyboards, Re: Do's and don'ts about cleaning keyboards# Re: EVA-5000 performance monitoring , Executables started by Java do not stay open  HP preps 1.8GHz AMD Athlon 64 PC$ Re: HP preps 1.8GHz AMD Athlon 64 PC$ Re: HP preps 1.8GHz AMD Athlon 64 PC HP to port VMS to Oopsteron?  Re: HP to port VMS to Oopsteron?  Re: HP to port VMS to Oopsteron?  Re: HP to port VMS to Oopsteron?  Re: HP to port VMS to Oopsteron?  Re: HP to port VMS to Oopsteron?2 Hp warns about Suns future ... or lack thereof .../ Re: IBM won't buy VMS ... has NIH syndrome too! / Re: IBM won't buy VMS ... has NIH syndrome too! / Re: IBM won't buy VMS ... has NIH syndrome too! + Re: Installation problem with OpenVMS 7.3.1 + Re: Installation problem with OpenVMS 7.3.1 " Re: lib$spawn and persona services MAIL: INBOX vs NEWMAIL Re: MAIL: INBOX vs NEWMAIL Re: MAIL: INBOX vs NEWMAIL Re: MAIL: INBOX vs NEWMAIL Re: MAIL: INBOX vs NEWMAIL Re: MAIL: INBOX vs NEWMAIL Re: MAIL: INBOX vs NEWMAIL* Re: Max length of Nodename in OpenVMS 7.31* Re: Max length of Nodename in OpenVMS 7.31* Re: Max length of Nodename in OpenVMS 7.31$ php_mysql module for mod_php in CSWS Re: Portents of Itanium death  Re: Portents of Itanium death  Re: Portents of Itanium death  Re: Portents of Itanium death # Re: Rookie question for the experts # Re: Rookie question for the experts @ Re: SEC:U MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1, Motif 1.3 and HP TCP/IP XDM (long)@ Re: SEC:U MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1, Motif 1.3 and HP TCP/IP XDM (long)@ Re: SEC:U MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1, Motif 1.3 and HP TCP/IP XDM (long)@ Re: SEC:U MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1, Motif 1.3 and HP TCP/IP XDM (long)@ Re: SEC:U MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1, Motif 1.3 and HP TCP/IP XDM (long)@ Re: SEC:U MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1, Motif 1.3 and HP TCP/IP XDM (long)@ Re: SEC:U MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1, Motif 1.3 and HP TCP/IP XDM (long) Re: Small village and IBM  Softpc and privileges  Re: Softpc and privileges  Re: Sun to be the next DEC!  Re: Sun to be the next DEC!  Re: Sun to be the next DEC! ? Re: Sun's Migration Campaign To Target VMS (And Tru64 & HP3000)  Re: TLZ07 compaction? $ Veritas - Netbackup on Alpha OpenVMS( Re: Veritas - Netbackup on Alpha OpenVMS Re: X-windows UID decompiler ?0 Re: ZKO email problems re: CXML on OpenVMS Alpha0 Re: ZKO email problems re: CXML on OpenVMS Alpha [AOT]:Shameless sale items plug # Re: [AOT]:Shameless sale items plug @ Re: [ENABLE AUTOSTART] How to determine the state of AUTOSTART ? [OT]    HumourC Re: [OT] Future of Sun in doubt ?, was: Re: Sun to be the next DEC! : Re: [OT] SCO tells IBM no more AIX ... IBM better buy VMS!: Re: [OT] SCO tells IBM no more AIX ... IBM better buy VMS!  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 17 Jun 2003 23:48:15 -07001 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) 8 Subject: "Compaq Fibre Channel Tape Controller" and VMS?- Message-ID: <mTQk4B1LdcVV@malvm7.mala.bc.ca.>   B  I bought a couple of Compaq "Enterprise Backup Solutions" on Ebay= recently ( to get the FC hubs ). Also included in the package @ are a couple of "Fibre Channel Tape controller I"s. These gizmos9 have a fibre channel port, 2 narrow HVD scsi ports and an > ethernet and serial port ( which I assume are for management).2 They appear to be intended to serve a tape library8 over Fibre Channel ( the "quick start" guide talks about6 hooking up a TL895 ). The included software is all for Windows NT and Netware.   @   I have an HVD DLT4000 tape drive. I'm wondering if there's any? hope that if I hooked it up to the tape controller I could make  it work with VMS 7.3-1.   <   I realize I could just try it, but before I spend too much; time flogging a dead horse I thought I'd see if anyone else  has been down this road.     Thanks in advance.  B   ps. The hubs and FC patch cords in the package more than coveredD the price I paid for these kits, so I won't be too upset to find out5 the tape controllers are just overgrown paperweights.    ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:38:50 +0200 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> 8 Subject: Re: Another unix/linux cert ... but not on VMS!; Message-ID: <01KX8HFC3IPUAM67GX@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   	 > No Lynx   I I'm not sure what the current situation is, but IIRC Lynx was originally  @ developed under VMS and later ported to other operating systems.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:21:16 +0200 $ From: "MikeR" <rechtman@tzora.co.il>8 Subject: Re: Another unix/linux cert ... but not on VMS!5 Message-ID: <bcpat4$lkqkk$1@ID-103225.news.dfncis.de>   8 "David Webb" <david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk> wrote in message% news:bcna4i$apc$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk... ? > In article <d7791aa1.0306170515.6890946d@posting.google.com>, * bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:8 > >this would never happen on VMS, but on os's like unix8 > >and linux with such poor security models, it does ... > >  > L >http://www.computerworld.com/securitytopics/security/holes/story/0,10801,82 197,00.html  > , > Are you sure VMS isn't affected by this :- >  > " L > Adobe Systems Inc.'s Acrobat Reader 5.06 is affected by the problem, as is the 8 > open-source reader Xpdf 1.01, according to the report. >  > "  >  > XPDF is available on VMS.  > H > Note the problem is to do with the PDF reader calling out to run other programsL > when it encounters a link and the potential for someone to write maliciousE > code which would allow them to affect other files OWNED by the USER  running the 
 > pdf reader.  >  > " H > In the report, Gilmore describes a problem in the way that PDF viewing programsK > for the Unix platform process hyperlinks within valid PDF documents. When H > processing hyperlinks, common PDF readers use the Unix "shell" command (sh -c) L > to launch and pass commands to external programs. For example, clicking on a C > hyperlink for a Web page would launch the associated Web browser,  according to
 > the report.  > " K > I would assume that a VMS based pdf reader port would similarly spawn out  to > DCL to run external programs.  >  >  > " I > While attackers are limited by the privilege level of the user clicking  the I > malicious link, the vulnerability could enable a remote attacker to use  shell F > commands to delete files from the user's hard drive or perform other actions 7 > without the knowledge of the victim, the report said.  > "  > G > I don't see how VMS's security model would prevent this. The fact the  shell H > commands are different from Unix would provide protection from someoneJ > expecting the target system to be a unix system but it would probably be very= > easy to come up with links which would delete files on VMS.  >  >  > David Webb > VMS and Unix team leader > CCSS > Middlesex University >  > @ OTOH, as a basic security requirement, surely you should be in a non-priveleged user space ifD you want to download PDFs, surf unknown websites or in general use a program/data-source $ of whose origins you are not sure...  1 Then at least the possible harm would be limited.    Mike   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 11:59:21 +0000 (UTC) + From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb) 8 Subject: Re: Another unix/linux cert ... but not on VMS!+ Message-ID: <bcpk6p$ikn$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>   h In article <d7791aa1.0306171424.5260297b@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:_ >david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb) wrote in message news:<bcnm6b$c1c$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>...  >>   >> So that means lets see :- >>  
 >> No JAVA > 3 >not an absolute necessity for vms web services ...  > 
 >> No PERL > ) >right, use dibol/cobol/fortran/basic cgi  >  >> No Python > $ >not needed for vms web services ... >  >> No Apache >  >no, purveyor ...  > 7 >> (No Oracle since it includes its own copy of Apache)  > ! >oracle for db engine is fine ...  > O Perhaps I should have also said because it includes it's own version of Java as I well and also makes use of TCL (and of course is now developed on Unix).  J As I recall when Oracle 8 came out on Solaris there were a number of majorF security holes because they were using TCL and hadn't tied things down
 correctly.    
 >> No OpenSSL  > 3 >only when necessary ... not as buggy as other apps  >   ???  N  As I recall their have been a number of remotely-exploitable buffer overflows  in openssl.      
 >> No Mozilla  > % >right, use a windoze thin client ...  > 
 >> No Lynx > & >useless, use windoze if necessary ... >  >> No PGP or GNuPG > - >right, again use a vms 3 or 4 gl for cgi ...  >   . You do know what PGP and GNuPG are don't you ?F Nothing to do with cgis or web services - think public key encryption.      
 >> No Ckermit  >  >no, unnecessary ... >  >>   >> etc >  >depends what that is ...  >  >>  J >> unless you have personally inspected every single line of code to prove >> it's total security.  >>  L >> Security is about balancing risks and benefits. No system not even VMS isQ >> totally secure. VMS security model does provide a greater level of protection  P >> against system compromises from installing buggy public domain packages than P >> Unix systems. But it does not protect the user's own files from a program he Q >> runs whether it is ported Unix code or a program written specifically for VMS.  > B >correct, but you can take advantage of that security by not using@ >risky stuff and use what vms has to offer, unless that new tech >proves itself ...      B These products may not be necessary to you but they are to others.J I would love to know how you can ascertain that a piece of code has provenM itself - A product can go for years without any problems being discovered and J then a really major hole can be found. PDF viewers have been available for0 years before this vulnerability came to light.    K Any product you put on a system can have problems - it doesn't have to be a H port of Unix code. WASD a VMS webserver had some major security problemsO discovered a little while ago. The UCX POP vulnerability was with code obtained L from the IUPOP server (a VMS based POP server) which the UCX developers had 2 modified so that it ran installed with privileges.@ Occasionally VMS itself will have a security problem discovered.  K The purveyor web server may be a great server but can you be 100% sure that > their isn't some security bug lurking somewhere in that code. K If someone found one what would you do ? What's process' support policy for N purveyor - would they guarantee to fix the problem or would they just tell youC it's unsupported and you should use another more modern webserver ?   
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University     ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 13:01:46 +0000 (UTC) + From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb) 8 Subject: Re: Another unix/linux cert ... but not on VMS!+ Message-ID: <bcpnrp$j23$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>   \ In article <bcpat4$lkqkk$1@ID-103225.news.dfncis.de>, "MikeR" <rechtman@tzora.co.il> writes: > 9 >"David Webb" <david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk> wrote in message & >news:bcna4i$apc$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk...@ >> In article <d7791aa1.0306170515.6890946d@posting.google.com>,+ >bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes: 9 >> >this would never happen on VMS, but on os's like unix 9 >> >and linux with such poor security models, it does ...  >> > >>M >>http://www.computerworld.com/securitytopics/security/holes/story/0,10801,82  >197,00.html >>- >> Are you sure VMS isn't affected by this :-  >> >> "M >> Adobe Systems Inc.'s Acrobat Reader 5.06 is affected by the problem, as is  >the9 >> open-source reader Xpdf 1.01, according to the report.  >> >> " >> >> XPDF is available on VMS. >>I >> Note the problem is to do with the PDF reader calling out to run other 	 >programs M >> when it encounters a link and the potential for someone to write malicious F >> code which would allow them to affect other files OWNED by the USER >running the >> pdf reader. >> >> "I >> In the report, Gilmore describes a problem in the way that PDF viewing 	 >programs L >> for the Unix platform process hyperlinks within valid PDF documents. WhenI >> processing hyperlinks, common PDF readers use the Unix "shell" command  >(sh -c)M >> to launch and pass commands to external programs. For example, clicking on  >aD >> hyperlink for a Web page would launch the associated Web browser,
 >according to  >> the report. >> "L >> I would assume that a VMS based pdf reader port would similarly spawn out >to   >> DCL to run external programs. >> >> >> "J >> While attackers are limited by the privilege level of the user clicking >theJ >> malicious link, the vulnerability could enable a remote attacker to use >shellG >> commands to delete files from the user's hard drive or perform other  >actions8 >> without the knowledge of the victim, the report said. >> " >>H >> I don't see how VMS's security model would prevent this. The fact the >shellI >> commands are different from Unix would provide protection from someone K >> expecting the target system to be a unix system but it would probably be  >very > >> easy to come up with links which would delete files on VMS. >> >>
 >> David Webb  >> VMS and Unix team leader  >> CCSS  >> Middlesex University  >> >>A >OTOH, as a basic security requirement, surely you should be in a  >non-priveleged user space if E >you want to download PDFs, surf unknown websites or in general use a  >program/data-source% >of whose origins you are not sure...  > 2 >Then at least the possible harm would be limited. > F That's what I was assuming. The user running the pdf reader would be aK non-privileged user who would therefore only be able to delete or otherwise  affect his own files etcK The security model on Unix or Linux would in this instance provide the same  level of security as VMS. O (Ok there is a very slight extra risk on Unix/Linux of this vulnerability being M combined with a privilege escalation vulnerability since such vulnerabilities 4 tend to occur on Unix/Linux more often than on VMS).    
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University       >Mike  >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 14:09:44 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> 8 Subject: Re: Another unix/linux cert ... but not on VMS!I Message-ID: <Io_Ha.135498$3Sm.98479@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   8 "David Webb" <david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk> wrote in message% news:bcpk6p$ikn$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk... ? > In article <d7791aa1.0306171424.5260297b@posting.google.com>, * bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:9 > >david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb) wrote in message ' news:<bcnm6b$c1c$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>...  > >> > >> So that means lets see :- > >> > >> No JAVA > > 5 > >not an absolute necessity for vms web services ...  > >  > >> No PERL > > + > >right, use dibol/cobol/fortran/basic cgi  > >  > >> No Python > > & > >not needed for vms web services ... > >  > >> No Apache > >  > >no, purveyor ...  > > 9 > >> (No Oracle since it includes its own copy of Apache)  > > # > >oracle for db engine is fine ...  > > F > Perhaps I should have also said because it includes it's own version
 of Java asC > well and also makes use of TCL (and of course is now developed on  Unix).F > As I recall when Oracle 8 came out on Solaris there were a number of major C > security holes because they were using TCL and hadn't tied things  down > correctly. >  >  > >> No OpenSSL  > > 5 > >only when necessary ... not as buggy as other apps  > >  >  ??? > F >  As I recall their have been a number of remotely-exploitable buffer	 overflows  >  in openssl. >  >  >  > >> No Mozilla  > > ' > >right, use a windoze thin client ...  > >  > >> No Lynx > > ( > >useless, use windoze if necessary ... > >  > >> No PGP or GNuPG > > / > >right, again use a vms 3 or 4 gl for cgi ...  > >  > 0 > You do know what PGP and GNuPG are don't you ?< > Nothing to do with cgis or web services - think public key encryption.  >  >  >  > >> No Ckermit  > >  > >no, unnecessary ... > >  > >> > >> etc > >  > >depends what that is ...  > >  > >>F > >> unless you have personally inspected every single line of code to prove  > >> it's total security.  > >>B > >> Security is about balancing risks and benefits. No system not even VMS is D > >> totally secure. VMS security model does provide a greater level
 of protection C > >> against system compromises from installing buggy public domain 
 packages than F > >> Unix systems. But it does not protect the user's own files from a
 program he= > >> runs whether it is ported Unix code or a program written  specifically for VMS.  > > D > >correct, but you can take advantage of that security by not usingB > >risky stuff and use what vms has to offer, unless that new tech > >proves itself ... >  >  > D > These products may not be necessary to you but they are to others.E > I would love to know how you can ascertain that a piece of code has  proven > itself - .....  B Bob has a lab staffed with a million monkeys doing QA on the code.   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jun 2003 09:30:10 -0700* From: zinser@decus.de (Martin P.J. Zinser)8 Subject: Re: Another unix/linux cert ... but not on VMS!= Message-ID: <220d7b8e.0306180830.1169c105@posting.google.com>   ^ david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb) wrote in message news:<bcna4i$apc$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>... Hello,  j > In article <d7791aa1.0306170515.6890946d@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:8 > >this would never happen on VMS, but on os's like unix8 > >and linux with such poor security models, it does ... > > Y > >http://www.computerworld.com/securitytopics/security/holes/story/0,10801,82197,00.html  > , > Are you sure VMS isn't affected by this :- >  > " P > Adobe Systems Inc.'s Acrobat Reader 5.06 is affected by the problem, as is the8 > open-source reader Xpdf 1.01, according to the report. >  > "  >  > XPDF is available on VMS.  > Q > Note the problem is to do with the PDF reader calling out to run other programs L > when it encounters a link and the potential for someone to write maliciousQ > code which would allow them to affect other files OWNED by the USER running the  > pdf reader.  >  > "   K Maybe it is worth mentioning that there is a new version of Xpdf (2.02pl1)  J available since a couple of days already which addresses this problem for  Unix users.   I Also upon examination of the patch I did decide this is not a problem on  J OpenVMS since the exploit actually does rely on backtick expansion, which J is not something DCL usually does. Which is also the reason why I have notH yet updated the OpenVMS port. Xpdf (and the libraries it uses) certainly< has some shortcomings (the ones I am aware of are listed on K http://www.decus.de:8080/www/vms/sw/notes/xpdf.htmlx), but these are worked  on.   I Also if Bob rather wants to run Windows, this is obviously his choice ;-)    Greetings, Martin    ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 17:23:30 +0000 (UTC) + From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb) 8 Subject: Re: Another unix/linux cert ... but not on VMS!+ Message-ID: <bcq76i$kib$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>   j In article <220d7b8e.0306180830.1169c105@posting.google.com>, zinser@decus.de (Martin P.J. Zinser) writes:_ >david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb) wrote in message news:<bcna4i$apc$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>...  >Hello,  > k >> In article <d7791aa1.0306170515.6890946d@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes: 9 >> >this would never happen on VMS, but on os's like unix 9 >> >and linux with such poor security models, it does ...  >> >Z >> >http://www.computerworld.com/securitytopics/security/holes/story/0,10801,82197,00.html >>  - >> Are you sure VMS isn't affected by this :-  >>   >> "Q >> Adobe Systems Inc.'s Acrobat Reader 5.06 is affected by the problem, as is the 9 >> open-source reader Xpdf 1.01, according to the report.  >>   >> " >>   >> XPDF is available on VMS. >>  R >> Note the problem is to do with the PDF reader calling out to run other programsM >> when it encounters a link and the potential for someone to write malicious R >> code which would allow them to affect other files OWNED by the USER running the >> pdf reader.   >>   >> " > L >Maybe it is worth mentioning that there is a new version of Xpdf (2.02pl1) K >available since a couple of days already which addresses this problem for  
 >Unix users.   > J >Also upon examination of the patch I did decide this is not a problem on K >OpenVMS since the exploit actually does rely on backtick expansion, which  K >is not something DCL usually does. Which is also the reason why I have not I >yet updated the OpenVMS port. Xpdf (and the libraries it uses) certainly = >has some shortcomings (the ones I am aware of are listed on  L >http://www.decus.de:8080/www/vms/sw/notes/xpdf.htmlx), but these are worked >on.   > J >Also if Bob rather wants to run Windows, this is obviously his choice ;-) >  >Greetings, Martin   Thanks for the update Martin.   K Although I'm glad VMS isn't affected I'm now preparing myself for Bob's - I . told you VMS wouldn't be vulnerable onslaught.    
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:52:09 -0400 8 From: Jim Agnew - VCU/MCV Neurosurgery <jpagnew@vcu.edu>. Subject: Re: Backup Software for VMS and Linux' Message-ID: <3EF06E89.1D1DBE1E@vcu.edu>   G We're using the ABC client NOW, and it works well.  on a VAX it takes a H while to upload 50GB, and you can't have a copy of everything squirreledG away freezing your site at every january adn july for the past 10 years G like we can with tapes, but hey, the tape drive's still there, right???   D you cannot do a bare-metal restore, you'll need a local copy of your+ system disk, WITH the abc client installed.     CHANGE username to westes wrote: > N > I was told that there is a VMS application that interfaces to Tivoli StorageM > Manager named ABC (http://www.storserver.com) that integrates with VMS very J > well and would allow you to run the LTO-1 tape drives on the TSM storage > host.  >  > -- > Will > G > NOTE:   To reply, CHANGE the username to westes AT earthbroadcast.com  > > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message# > news:3EEFE10B.80CABE78@fsi.net... $ > > CHANGE username to westes wrote: > > > N > > > I was told today that VMS cannot use an LTO-1 tape drive because of someJ > > > limitation around writing odd-byte writes on LTO.   What options are > there $ > > > for using LTO-1 drives on VMS? > > 	 > > None.  > > L > > > What backup applications implement good agents for both VMS and Linux?M > > > Could we run the LTO-1 drives on a Linux backup server, and then backup  > and J > > > restore data for VMS through a VMS agent that works with that backup > > > application? > > 	 > > None.  > > $ > > > What other options do we have? > >   > > SDLT now, or wait for LTO-2. > >  > > -- > > David J. Dachtera  > > dba DJE Systems  > > http://www.djesys.com/ > > , > > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:# > > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/  > >    --  F "4,000 years ago I made a mistake."  Elrond Half-Elven, in "Fellowship of the Ring"   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:34:39 +0100 * From: "John Travell" <john@travell.uk.net> Subject: Re: cxx performance5 Message-ID: <bcp8cs$lkj0a$1@ID-120847.news.dfncis.de>   4 "Carl Perkins" <carl@gerg.tamu.edu> wrote in message' news:17JUN200320500012@gerg.tamu.edu... : > "Johan Nilsson" <johan.nilsson@esrange.ssc.se> writes...8 > }"Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in message& > }news:3EEEDF47.CE064EF1@127.0.0.1... > }> Johan Nilsson wrote: < > } > I've been struggling for some time now to increase the6 > } > performance when running the DEC (aka COMPAQ/HP)= > } > C++ compiler. I'm doing a (perhaps not completely fair) ( > } > comparison of building CppUnit 1.8> > } > (http://cppunit.sourceforge.net) on a Windows XP machine: > } > and an OpenVMS 7.1 PWS au/433 machine and I'm really  > } > wondering what's going on. > $ > What PC hardware is XP running on?   From the original post...  > } > 1) Windows platform  > } > H/W: Intel PIII 550MHz > } > Memory: 512 MB > } > OS: Windows XP SP1- > } > Compiler: Microsoft Visual C++.NET 2003 . So, modern software, far from modern hardware.   and... > } > 2) OpenVMS platform . > } > H/W: Digital Personal Workstation 433 au > } > Memory: 256 MB > } > OS: OpenVMS Alpha 7.1-1H1  > } > Compiler: DEC C++ 6.5   , It seems the hardware is loosely comparable.4 The OS certainly isn't, but the compiler is current.  J To make the comparison fair, you need to either roll the PC back to NT3.51I (maybe NT4) or to upgrade VMS to V7.3-1. Even then, there are significant # differences in compiler technology. K It might be that there really is a compiler performance problem, if so, the G problem report (cxxc_bugs10188) reported by Ken Block may in future fix  this.    -- John Travell  VMS crashdump expertise for hire john@travell.uk.net  http://www.travell.uk.net/       --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A Version: 6.0.489 / Virus Database: 288 - Release Date: 10/06/2003    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:14:59 -0400 & From: David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com>4 Subject: DCL$AL_TAB_VEC equivalent for OpenVMS Alpha8 Message-ID: <8ss0fvgq17oe4vclbhs08rntjcm48a51vj@4ax.com>  K In 1993 Chris Chiesa posted some code which showed how to invoke a DCL COPY P command from an executable image. This code relied on the use of an undocumentedC (as far as I can see) global symbol, DCL$AL_TAB_VEC, the address in 4 DCLTABLES.EXE of the start of the DCL command table.  ; For details, see Gool Groups and search for DCL$AL_TAB_VEC.   L This symbol does not appear to be defined / available on OpenVMS Alpha. Does= anyone know of an equivalent symbol, or technique, for Alpha? I ------------------------------------------------------------------------- I David M. Smith 302.391.8533                       dsmit115 at csc dot com I Computer Sciences Corporation     (Opinions are those of the writer only) I -------------------------------------------------------------------------    ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jun 2003 12:15:02 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) N Subject: Re: DECwindows Motif to be updated (was: SEC:U MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1...)3 Message-ID: <UkGVbssh4vCE@eisner.encompasserve.org>   n In article <9o0Ia.2872$OC1.2015@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> writes:  K > After having gotten the X11 bits up to X11R6.6, we are now about to start A > work on getting xm (the motif library) to V2.1/2 (or whatever).   
 Hooray !!!   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:56:59 +0100 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>5 Subject: Re: Do's and don'ts about cleaning keyboards ) Message-ID: <3EF0295A.EDB72B77@127.0.0.1>    "David J. Dachtera" wrote: >  > David Michaels wrote:   # > > WD-40 = water displacement - 40  > > K > > I've never seen it harm electronics. Not to say it can't, but I haven't  > > seen it. > E > The petroleum distillates it contains can do considerable damage to / > plastic and rubber products. Not recommended.   B Years ago I used some stuff called "servisol" IIRC, switch cleaner aerosol.  E The "cleaned" switches stopped being noisy for a little while, before < the surrounding plastic (hard plastic) rotted and the switch disintegrated.  H I admit to using WD40 to clean up noisy wiper in variable resistors, butE it's a last resort and as David points out, I'm prepared for eventual H replacement. I generally "spray" into a little pot then use a dropper toH get to the right place as surrounding components can be contaminated. (I' believe you can get it as non aerosol).   9 Clean pencil erasers are also very good contact cleaners.    --  ? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jun 2003 07:19:40 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 5 Subject: Re: Do's and don'ts about cleaning keyboards 3 Message-ID: <2zXNEu0R0XOx@eisner.encompasserve.org>   T In article <3EF0295A.EDB72B77@127.0.0.1>, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes: > ; > Clean pencil erasers are also very good contact cleaners.   F    So is Freon, but then it has other issues.  A can of it used to be %    a standard part of many toolboxes.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 08:50:10 -0400 5 From: "Bochnik, William J" <William_Bochnik@acml.com> 5 Subject: RE: Do's and don'ts about cleaning keyboards Q Message-ID: <2D75787AAF09C64481BDFD89113BE6D50199B65E@ac2kama0102.ac.lp.acml.com>   - pulverized water - now I've heard everything.   G btw what are the 2 worst things I've seen in a keyboard?  Coca cola and  pineapple juice.   -----Original Message-----2 From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com] % Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 11:33 PM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 5 Subject: Re: Do's and don'ts about cleaning keyboards      "David J. Dachtera" wrote:F > The petroleum distillates it contains can do considerable damage to / > plastic and rubber products. Not recommended.   L You should note that Digital had won environmental awards when it developped, a way to clear PCB boards with... WATER !!!!  E (I assume it may have been finely pulverised water at high pressure). ) -----------------------------------------  The information contained in this transmission may contain privileged and confidential information and is intended only for the use of the person(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, any review, dissemination, distribution or duplication of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of  the original message. Please note that we do not accept account orders and/or instructions by e-mail, and therefore will not be responsible for carrying out such orders and/or instructions.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:47:18 -0400 8 From: Jim Agnew - VCU/MCV Neurosurgery <jpagnew@vcu.edu>5 Subject: Re: Do's and don'ts about cleaning keyboards ' Message-ID: <3EF06D66.71CCBD37@vcu.edu>   F Yup... had one user claim "nothing happened to it!!!" when it was FULL
 of coke...   yup, LART time..!!1    Jim    "Bochnik, William J" wrote:  > / > pulverized water - now I've heard everything.  > I > btw what are the 2 worst things I've seen in a keyboard?  Coca cola and  > pineapple juice. >  > -----Original Message-----3 > From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com] ' > Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 11:33 PM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 7 > Subject: Re: Do's and don'ts about cleaning keyboards  >  > "David J. Dachtera" wrote:G > > The petroleum distillates it contains can do considerable damage to 1 > > plastic and rubber products. Not recommended.  > N > You should note that Digital had won environmental awards when it developped. > a way to clear PCB boards with... WATER !!!! > G > (I assume it may have been finely pulverised water at high pressure). + > -----------------------------------------  > The information contained in this transmission may contain privileged and confidential information and is intended only for the use of the person(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, any review, dissemination, distribution or duplication of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately by reply e-mail and destroy all copies o fn > the original message. Please note that we do not accept account orders and/or instructions by e-mail, and therefore will not be responsible for carrying out such orders and/or instructions.f   -- oF "4,000 years ago I made a mistake."  Elrond Half-Elven, in "Fellowship of the Ring"   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 07:31:49 -0400 " From: "Hal Kuff" <kuff@tessco.com>, Subject: Re: EVA-5000 performance monitoring- Message-ID: <bcpijt$p5n@library2.airnews.net>r  F     We'll look into that.... I think it does not show I./O at the unitK level... ie.e $1$Dga2130: .... I'm told that EMC has something that can getM< stats from an HP SAN, but HP does not.... how could that be?    $ <koskaj@bender.com> wrote in message6 news:03061716160218.ea7a.36917038@alaxp3.bender.com...C > >From: SMTP%"kuff@tessco.com"  "Hal Kuff" 17-JUN-2003 14:48:07.63P > >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > >CC:( > >Subj: EVA-5000 performance monitoring > >uJ > >    We have 3 EVA5000 storage arrays.  My understanding is that no toolF > >exists that would show the i/o read and write rates on units in the SAN.... F > >It appears that the only tool available is host based and shows the effectF > >of reads/writes woth all of the caches inline....  We are primarilyH > >interested in what the SAN is actually doing... rememebr VTDPY on the > >HSZ/HSJ/HSG...s > >A >  > Would HP Fabric Watch help?  >LL > I believe it enables features resident in the firmware and hardware of the > HP StorageWorks SAN switches.o >a > :) jck   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 15:23:43 +0200m3 From: "Tim Aisthorpe-Buckley" <Tim_A_B@Hotmail.com>o5 Subject: Executables started by Java do not stay open / Message-ID: <vf0qd7c1urvjef@corp.supernews.com>t   Hi all,   D I have a com script that is used to start applications on a VMS box.     example of starting app:&         $ set def aluser:[myDirectory]         $ run myProg  F If I run the com file from the command prompt in a DEC window then theG myProg program starts ok and stays open once the com script has exited.     I But if I run the script from within a java program, running from the same- DEC window, as follows:        Java source extract:         Process p =KC Runtime.getRuntime().exec("aluser:[iris.btirissocket]runlogo.com");   H ... the applications called within the script all start ok and I can seeK them opening up their GUI screens ok, but when the com file exits so do alli the applications.     A So my question is - how do I get the applications to stay active,b" independent from the java program?L Is there somthing that I have to do in the com script or is something in the
 java program?   * Any help or ideas is very much appreciated   kind regards   TimA   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jun 2003 03:44:32 -0700. From: mistdragon@zdnetonebox.com (mist dragon)) Subject: HP preps 1.8GHz AMD Athlon 64 PCF= Message-ID: <7500353b.0306180244.533e2ce0@posting.google.com>   2 http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/54/31271.html  C Interesting, is'nt it ? And because AMD has stated it does not make-; any more Athlon XP's (32bit), isnt this more than natural ?-   Mist   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jun 2003 07:34:56 -0500B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)- Subject: Re: HP preps 1.8GHz AMD Athlon 64 PC 3 Message-ID: <ZoDse1ethA+t@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  n In article <7500353b.0306180244.533e2ce0@posting.google.com>, mistdragon@zdnetonebox.com (mist dragon) writes:4 > http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/54/31271.html > E > Interesting, is'nt it ? And because AMD has stated it does not makea= > any more Athlon XP's (32bit), isnt this more than natural ?  >   L What is important to find out is how heavily HP are moving to AMD64 systems.  F If this product is actually released (for all we know it might just beH a tactic to get better discounts out of Intel), then is it been releasedH into limited markets, or is it the start of a full product range becauseD HP are starting to get worried about the possibility that IA64 might( not achieve a significant market share ?  M BTW, The Inquirer, in it's version of this article, suggests that VMS is been L ported to AMD64, but if you look at the source reference for that claim it'sJ just someone (I think Hoff) pointing out that VMS Engineering are aware of' the existance of AMD 64 bit processors!-  G However, dismissing the Inquirer reference still leaves the question ofrK VMS on AMD64, which is a valid one _IF_ HP start releasing AMD64 systems inr significant quantities.n   Simon.   -- gB Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       L VMS advocate: One who makes a Mac advocate look like a beginner at advocacy.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:35:26 -0400-* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>- Subject: Re: HP preps 1.8GHz AMD Athlon 64 PC@) Message-ID: <3EF094CC.1193B4D4@istop.com>u   Simon Clubley wrote:H > If this product is actually released (for all we know it might just be1 > a tactic to get better discounts out of Intel),b  K The article did speculate that this PDF document was the result of internalsJ testing of sample AMD chips. Not a released product. There are two ways to
 look into it:o  L -HP would have freedom to choose AMD over Intel and is investigating the new@ AMD chip to see if it woudl fit nicely in its product portfolio.  M -HP's ties with Intel are too strong, but HP is still looking at what the AMD L can do so that HP can better prepare to combat, with Intel chips, the advent of AMD.b  D I suspect that all manufacturers will be toying with some sample AMD- chips/systems over the next couple of months.     F > HP are starting to get worried about the possibility that IA64 might* > not achieve a significant market share ?  F It is a given that IA64 won't get significant market share. Even IntelM admitted some time ago that IA64 would be limited to high end systems and not  make it to workstations etc.  I > However, dismissing the Inquirer reference still leaves the question offM > VMS on AMD64, which is a valid one _IF_ HP start releasing AMD64 systems ink > significant quantities.h    C This can't happen (officially) until there is some sort of officialaN announcement from Intel that development of IA64 will stop after X generation.G I suspect that contractual obligations between Compaq and Intel for theoH porting of VMS to IA64 would make it hard for HP to abandon IA64. So theM decision will have to come from Intel who will then give HP permission to use  Intel's 64 bit 8086.  K Right now, IA64 is no threath to Power or Sparc. But if Intel were to ditchaM IA64 and go for 64 bit 8086, then I suspect that Intel would have far greaterrH success in getting a foothold into enterprise computing. But that larger, market would be split between Intel and AMD.   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jun 2003 06:10:38 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)% Subject: HP to port VMS to Oopsteron? = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0306180510.1a0c2e80@posting.google.com>   . that's what the inquirer says might happen ...  ) http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=10056M   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 13:54:04 GMTa# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>o) Subject: Re: HP to port VMS to Oopsteron? I Message-ID: <0a_Ha.135392$3Sm.27820@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>r  5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message 7 news:d7791aa1.0306180510.1a0c2e80@posting.google.com...i0 > that's what the inquirer says might happen ... > + > http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=10056@    / Why doesn't HP just port VMS to Alpha-ron?  ;-)u   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:26:42 -0400.$ From: "rob kas" <news@paychoice.com>) Subject: Re: HP to port VMS to Oopsteron?w/ Message-ID: <vf0u6dj4ap14a4@corp.supernews.com>d  5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in messagea7 news:d7791aa1.0306180510.1a0c2e80@posting.google.com... 0 > that's what the inquirer says might happen ... >v+ > http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=10056g  $    Did you read the AMDZone Article?    I    There is presently a belief that there would be insufficient market to G justify the cost involved in porting OpenVMS to systems using the Intel I IA-32 architecture. In addition to the direct costs involved in any port, H each maintainer of a product or a package for OpenVMS has to justify theE port to "OpenVMS Pentium" or to OpenVMS Itanium, akin to the requiredlD justifications for a product port from OpenVMS VAX to OpenVMS Alpha.  " But yes, it would be nice to have.  F And yes, OpenVMS Engineering is well aware of AMD Opteron/Hammer, too.   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 16:05:14 +0000 (UTC) + From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb)o) Subject: Re: HP to port VMS to Oopsteron? + Message-ID: <bcq2jq$k51$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>   V In article <vf0u6dj4ap14a4@corp.supernews.com>, "rob kas" <news@paychoice.com> writes: >t6 >"Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message8 >news:d7791aa1.0306180510.1a0c2e80@posting.google.com...1 >> that's what the inquirer says might happen .... >>, >> http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=10056 > % >   Did you read the AMDZone Article?  >  > J >   There is presently a belief that there would be insufficient market toH >justify the cost involved in porting OpenVMS to systems using the IntelJ >IA-32 architecture. In addition to the direct costs involved in any port,I >each maintainer of a product or a package for OpenVMS has to justify theoF >port to "OpenVMS Pentium" or to OpenVMS Itanium, akin to the requiredE >justifications for a product port from OpenVMS VAX to OpenVMS Alpha.r > # >But yes, it would be nice to have.r >aG >And yes, OpenVMS Engineering is well aware of AMD Opteron/Hammer, too.e >  >t   Note the "IA-32 architecture". fK Although some in this newsgroup still want a port to IA32 most accept that  5 the time when such a port made sense has long passed.rI Porting to x86-64 makes a lot more sense especially if HP were to move todO Hammer on it's PC systems. HP could then achieve what it stated it wanted when oM announcing the demise of Alpha ie to move all it's products to a mass market b commodity chip.oG Since noone has yet been able to buy any VMS on IA64 production systems G replacing the port to IA64 with a port to x86-64 now would be feasible.MN The first version for ISVs to develop applications for VMS on IA64 hasn't beenC released so ISVs haven't had to spend any time yet on porting their 
 applications.P  O The bigger problem for HP would be HP-UX where ISVs have probably already spenti- time porting their products to HP-UX on IA64.u    
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:48:03 -0400o* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>) Subject: Re: HP to port VMS to Oopsteron?t) Message-ID: <3EF097C1.E2C2E14C@istop.com>e   Bob Ceculski wrote:  > 0 > that's what the inquirer says might happen ...+ > http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=10056a    M At first read, the article is pure hype. A secret meeting in a hotel wouldn't-G be in a dining room, it would be in a bedroom, which could lead to someiK interesting speculation. "I'll buy your AMDs if you let me see how big yourbG equipment is". Ok, so perhaps inappropriate. However, I joke about thiseJ because I don't really have much confidence in Carly taking rational, longN term decisions. She'll be more concerned about making sure her hair loosk fineI when she comes out of that bedroom. Image is everything for her it seems.@  ; Having sad this, I could see 2 possibilities: (speculation)s  N AMD is getting agressive and meeting with wintel makers and testing the watersL to see what it would take to break those wintel maker's ties with Intel that prevent them from choosing AMD.s   or:0  M HP has realised IA64 is a flop and is now starting to look at alternatives. I M think that Carly might be able to blame IA64 in her predecessor and this savesO her job while killing HP's current "all eggs in the IA64 wastebasket" strategy.    ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jun 2003 12:45:43 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)e) Subject: Re: HP to port VMS to Oopsteron?r3 Message-ID: <NfOCRCDooEaj@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  Y In article <bcq2jq$k51$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb) writes:  > ! > Note the "IA-32 architecture".  M > Although some in this newsgroup still want a port to IA32 most accept that r7 > the time when such a port made sense has long passed.e  <    PowerPC would be nice, too.   I wonder if it has 4 modes?   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jun 2003 06:07:40 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski); Subject: Hp warns about Suns future ... or lack thereof ... = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0306180507.120548ec@posting.google.com>a  5 it's right here ... Sun has also made a bad choice inx5 betting againset the alpha engineers and not choosingl5 Itanium ... this will be the nail in their coffin ...e  ) http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=10064e   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 01:34:18 -0400e* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>8 Subject: Re: IBM won't buy VMS ... has NIH syndrome too!2 Message-ID: <uhudnUhECf5CZHKjXTWJgA@metrocast.net>  7 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message # news:3EEFD077.CF9310E4@istop.com...t > John Smith wrote: C > > a) hp has bashed 'proprietary o/s'es as 'bad' for so long, thatb) > > advertising VMS makes them lose face.k >h > Why then did HP buy Compaq ?  G To give a couple of failed CEOs another couple of years of tenure whilexH things sorted themselves out.  And perhaps to get its PC and IA32 serverJ business (since clearly both CEOs believed that size, rather than profits,
 mattered).   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 14:18:33 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>i8 Subject: Re: IBM won't buy VMS ... has NIH syndrome too!J Message-ID: <Zw_Ha.135573$3Sm.107206@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  7 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in messageo# news:3EEFD077.CF9310E4@istop.com...n > John Smith wrote:tC > > a) hp has bashed 'proprietary o/s'es as 'bad' for so long, that ) > > advertising VMS makes them lose face.f >i@ > Why then did HP buy Compaq ? The only distinctive stuff Compaq brought HP wasF > VMS and Tandem.  They are ditching Alpha and Tru64.  The rest is all
 wintel stuff.e  6 Short answer: Consulting services and PC market share.F HP had made several attempts to bulk up in the consulting services andF failed. Compaq's consulting services division was making good coin. As@ to PC's, HP figures that in acquiring Compaq they could turn theB thumbscrews tighter on the Taiwanese suppliers and extract greater margins.    E > And by many standards, isn't HP-UX just as proprietary as VMS ? You. can onlyE > buy it from HP, right ? Does anyone else provide official support ?w  E it's open - remember? Beacuase it's unix...not that awful proprietaryw stuff.      C > > b) it's better not say anything about ANY of the o/s'es you owns than! > > to praise ANY or ALL of them.  >tF > Why then does HP have no problem mentioning HP-UX, Tandem NSK, Linux and   > windows ? (omitting only VMS).  8 Speech impediment. That, or insanity runs in the family.      E > > customers, which means selling against hp, among others. Properly>D > > advertised and marketed, VMS could make significant sales gains. HP3 > > wouldn't want that to occur at their expense...v >lC > This is where I really don't know HP's true understanding of VMS.a Does HP D > believe that VMS is a "legacy" OS that is on its last days with no realA > potential (or which woudl require megabucks to bring it back toi life), or doB > they see it as an OS with great potential... to hurt HP-UX sales ????   The latter.S   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 17:28:55 GMT & From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net>8 Subject: Re: IBM won't buy VMS ... has NIH syndrome too!8 Message-ID: <ka81fvsppgj7blgu696ejr8lsqsseku9fo@4ax.com>  H On Wed, 18 Jun 2003 01:34:18 -0400, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:   >s8 >"JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message$ >news:3EEFD077.CF9310E4@istop.com... >> John Smith wrote:D >> > a) hp has bashed 'proprietary o/s'es as 'bad' for so long, that* >> > advertising VMS makes them lose face. >> >> Why then did HP buy Compaq ?n >uH >To give a couple of failed CEOs another couple of years of tenure whileI >things sorted themselves out.  And perhaps to get its PC and IA32 servercK >business (since clearly both CEOs believed that size, rather than profits,n >mattered).d >n  I Hey, don't forget storage.  Dec/Cpq had great storage, which HP inheritedo as well.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 13:08:38 GMTs3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond)i4 Subject: Re: Installation problem with OpenVMS 7.3.12 Message-ID: <qvZHa.2830$Yj1.1492@news.cpqcorp.net>  H Eric, I do not see anything obvious from this.  My guess is that you areH running out of some resource that is causing the system to hang and alsoJ blocking any indication of the problem.  But you probably guessed as much.  H Unless someone else has any suggestions, I sugest that you escalate this- formally through your normal support contact.n    L In article <3EEF78FD.60209@ebruno.org>, Eric Bruno <eric@ebruno.org> writes:7 >Here is last file lines of the output when it freezes:- >-F >%PCSI-I-DELFIL, deleted DKA0:[000000.PCSI$WRK26.][SYS.HELP]CDSA.HLP;1 >%PSCI-I-CREFILE, created < >DISK$ALPHASYS:[VMS$COMMON,][SYSLIB]CDSA$DAALPROXY_SHR.EXE;1 >%PSCI-I-CREFILE, created = >DISK$ALPHASYS:[VMS$COMMON,][SYSLIB]CDSA$DUMMYMULTI_SAR.ESW;1b >%PSCI-I-CREFILE, created = >DISK$ALPHASYS:[VMS$COMMON,][SYSLIB]CDSA$DUMMYMULTI_SAR.EXE;11 >%PSCI-I-CREFILE, created < >DISK$ALPHASYS:[VMS$COMMON,][SYSLIB]CDSA$EAYCSP300_SHR.EXE;1 >  >l >Charlie Hammond wrote:t+ >> In article <3EEEA595.20407@ebruno.org>, o' >> Eric Bruno <eric@ebruno.org> writes:h >> / >> o0 >>>I have an Aspen Durango II (164LX) Alpha box.0 >>>I am having problem installing OpenVMS 7.3.1. >> a >> ..  >> i/ >>>The install starts and gets to 60% point anda7 >>>just freezes no message no response at the keyboard.u >> e >> ..d >> 1- >>>Is there way to get log or trace info ...?F >> v >> l >> Yes.  >>   >> Select the DCL option, then >> P5 >>     $$$ DEFINE/SYSTEM AXPVMS$PCSI_LOG_TRACE "BOTH"  >> and9 >>     $$$ DEFINE/SYSTEM AXPVMS$PCSI_EXECUTE_VERIFY "YES"  >> eJ >> LOGOUT from DCL to return to the main menu, then [re]do the insallation >> or upgrade. >>  J >> This will generate a *LOT* of output.  The last lines before the "hang"H >> will give an indicatin of where exactly the process is "stuck".  CopyA >> them _exactly_ and post them -- 5-10 lines is probably enough.d >> d >h >i   --  J       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 13:36:48 GMTo" From: Eric Bruno <eric@ebruno.org>4 Subject: Re: Installation problem with OpenVMS 7.3.1) Message-ID: <3EF06AF3.2070809@ebruno.org>i  B Technically the 168LX boards are unsupported for OpenVMS. But haveD worked with 7.2.  It just may not work. Tru64, Linux and FreeBSD allB run with a problem. So it's most likely a hardware issue with someD component most likely the SCSI controller since I have tried severalF different hard disks and two different CD-ROM drives.  The common itemK is the SCSI controller. The ethernet card is a tulip so should be ok there.d  G Looks like I am just going to have to get another box which is offical  H supported list.  Island has some reburbished boxes and I will just keep  an eye on e-bay.   Thanks for your help.>     Thanks for help.   Charlie Hammond wrote:J > Eric, I do not see anything obvious from this.  My guess is that you areJ > running out of some resource that is causing the system to hang and alsoL > blocking any indication of the problem.  But you probably guessed as much. > J > Unless someone else has any suggestions, I sugest that you escalate this/ > formally through your normal support contact.t >  > N > In article <3EEF78FD.60209@ebruno.org>, Eric Bruno <eric@ebruno.org> writes: > 8 >>Here is last file lines of the output when it freezes: >>G >>%PCSI-I-DELFIL, deleted DKA0:[000000.PCSI$WRK26.][SYS.HELP]CDSA.HLP;1i >>%PSCI-I-CREFILE, created o= >>DISK$ALPHASYS:[VMS$COMMON,][SYSLIB]CDSA$DAALPROXY_SHR.EXE;1p >>%PSCI-I-CREFILE, created  > >>DISK$ALPHASYS:[VMS$COMMON,][SYSLIB]CDSA$DUMMYMULTI_SAR.ESW;1 >>%PSCI-I-CREFILE, created e> >>DISK$ALPHASYS:[VMS$COMMON,][SYSLIB]CDSA$DUMMYMULTI_SAR.EXE;1 >>%PSCI-I-CREFILE, created e= >>DISK$ALPHASYS:[VMS$COMMON,][SYSLIB]CDSA$EAYCSP300_SHR.EXE;1  >> >> >>Charlie Hammond wrote: >>+ >>>In article <3EEEA595.20407@ebruno.org>, o' >>>Eric Bruno <eric@ebruno.org> writes:s >>>  >>>n >>>I1 >>>>I have an Aspen Durango II (164LX) Alpha box.d1 >>>>I am having problem installing OpenVMS 7.3.1.c >>>s >>>..n >>>a >>>r0 >>>>The install starts and gets to 60% point and8 >>>>just freezes no message no response at the keyboard. >>>A >>>..B >>>t >>>a. >>>>Is there way to get log or trace info ...? >>>  >>>G >>>Yes.  >>>n >>>Select the DCL option, then >>> 5 >>>    $$$ DEFINE/SYSTEM AXPVMS$PCSI_LOG_TRACE "BOTH"m >>>and9 >>>    $$$ DEFINE/SYSTEM AXPVMS$PCSI_EXECUTE_VERIFY "YES". >>> J >>>LOGOUT from DCL to return to the main menu, then [re]do the insallation >>>or upgrade. >>>-J >>>This will generate a *LOT* of output.  The last lines before the "hang"H >>>will give an indicatin of where exactly the process is "stuck".  CopyA >>>them _exactly_ and post them -- 5-10 lines is probably enough.e >>>W >> >> >    ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jun 2003 07:35:29 -0500 From: briggs@encompasserve.org+ Subject: Re: lib$spawn and persona servicesa3 Message-ID: <9kBx74NK4b$m@eisner.encompasserve.org>s  u In article <8369d643.0306171355.7bb3649e@posting.google.com>, forrest.cahoon@merrillcorp.com (Forrest Cahoon) writes:rC > I've been attemping to use persona services, and I'm running intowA > trouble using lib$spawn while impersonating a user who has only , > the standard NETMBX and TMPMBX privileges.  F At a guess, without delving carefully into your code, the impersonated@ user does not have access to your job logical name table and theC mailbox created to support the spawn operation cannot have its namem catalogued there.h   	John Briggs   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 01:27:20 -04003* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> Subject: MAIL: INBOX vs NEWMAIL ) Message-ID: <3EEFF82A.13288191@istop.com>   I Is there a clear, concise description of what seems to be the dual use ofi' INBOX and NEWMAIL folders in VMS mail ?   H Character cell application uses NEWMAIL for new messages. The DECwindowsF version seems to put them in INBOX (but still shows a NEWMAIL folder).  9 This can be confusing at times. Any explanation of this ?n   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 07:52:29 +0000 - From: David B Sneddon <dbsneddon@bigpond.com> # Subject: Re: MAIL: INBOX vs NEWMAILs* Message-ID: <3EF01A3D.8010209@bigpond.com>   JF Mezei wrote: K > Is there a clear, concise description of what seems to be the dual use of ) > INBOX and NEWMAIL folders in VMS mail ?e > J > Character cell application uses NEWMAIL for new messages. The DECwindowsH > version seems to put them in INBOX (but still shows a NEWMAIL folder). > ; > This can be confusing at times. Any explanation of this ?  > ? My DECwindows MAIL has no INBOX.  What version are you running?mA I would assume that DECwindows MAIL would use whatever is definedr in your MAIL file.   Regards, Dave.n -- aI David B Sneddon (dbs)    VMS Systems Programmer     dbsneddon@bigpond.comsI Sneddo's quick guide ...          http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/ I DBS freeware at ...   http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/software.htmeI "Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans" Lennonf   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:54:45 +0100 (MET)r9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>p# Subject: Re: MAIL: INBOX vs NEWMAILe; Message-ID: <01KX8HYDLJTEAOKN0V@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>P  H > Is there a clear, concise description of what seems to be the dual use- > of INBOX and NEWMAIL folders in VMS mail ? i > J > Character cell application uses NEWMAIL for new messages. The DECwindowsI > version seems to put them in INBOX (but still shows a NEWMAIL folder). C > < > This can be confusing at times. Any explanation of this ?   A As someone who uses the character-cell interface even when using tI DECwindows, I can't comment on the DECwindows interface, so this is just o' a guess.  There is a difference betweenw      MAIL> DIR/NEW   and       MAIL> DIR NEWMAIL  ( Perhaps INBOX corresponds to the former?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 16:56:07 +1000 1 From: Paddy O'Brien <paddy.o'brien@tg.nsw.gov.au>i# Subject: Re: MAIL: INBOX vs NEWMAILe, Message-ID: <3EF00D07.2010009@tg.nsw.gov.au>   JF Mezei wrote:cK > Is there a clear, concise description of what seems to be the dual use of ) > INBOX and NEWMAIL folders in VMS mail ?e > J > Character cell application uses NEWMAIL for new messages. The DECwindowsH > version seems to put them in INBOX (but still shows a NEWMAIL folder). > ; > This can be confusing at times. Any explanation of this ?V  H I don't see this.  I am running DECWindows mail on a 7.3 VAX and I have : all incoming mail in my NEWMAIL folder.  No sign of INBOX.  F Admittedly, I (and I forget the reason but it was publicised here) am 4 using DECW$MAIL.EXE dated 7-mar-1994, not the newer.   Regards, Paddy      G ***********************************************************************n  C "This electronic message and any attachments may contain privilegedt> and confidential information intended only for the use of the B addressees named above.  If you are not the intended recipient of C this email, please delete the message and any attachment and advisemB the sender.  You are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, 7 distribution, reproduction of this email is prohibited.A  A If you have received the email in error, please notify TransGrid -A immediately.  Any views expressed in this email are those of the i= individual sender except where the sender expressly and with nC authority states them to be the views of TransGrid.  TransGrid uses-> virus scanning software but excludes any liability for viruses contained in any attachment.  < Please note the email address for TransGrid personnel is now$ firstname.lastname@transgrid.com.au"  G ***********************************************************************e   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jun 2003 09:59:04 +0200C From: vaxinf@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de (Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann)f# Subject: Re: MAIL: INBOX vs NEWMAILX- Message-ID: <3ef01bc8$1@news.uni-konstanz.de>e  2 In article <3EEFF82A.13288191@istop.com>, JF Mezei# <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes:-H |>Is there a clear, concise description of what seems to be the dual use |>of) |>INBOX and NEWMAIL folders in VMS mail ?s |>J |>Character cell application uses NEWMAIL for new messages. The DECwindowsH |>version seems to put them in INBOX (but still shows a NEWMAIL folder). |>; |>This can be confusing at times. Any explanation of this ?N |>  E The DECwindows version can be configured in "Options" => "Receive..."a  ( "Name of folder which receives new mail"   eberhard   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:47:25 +0000 (UTC)e+ From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb) # Subject: Re: MAIL: INBOX vs NEWMAILy+ Message-ID: <bcpn0t$iu7$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>   V In article <3EEFF82A.13288191@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes:J >Is there a clear, concise description of what seems to be the dual use of( >INBOX and NEWMAIL folders in VMS mail ? >eI >Character cell application uses NEWMAIL for new messages. The DECwindows G >version seems to put them in INBOX (but still shows a NEWMAIL folder).i > : >This can be confusing at times. Any explanation of this ?  I NEWMAIL is the folder in which new mail sent to your VMS system is reallyC
 stored in.I Many other systems including IMAP products standardised on the name INBOX-- for the folder in which new mail was placed. hL Hence it makes sense for mail products on VMS to map the folder INBOX to the folder NEWMAIL. F However such mail products should in that case only display INBOX not  both INBOX and NEWMAIL.@  O I just looked at Decwindows mail on my VMS 7.3-1 workstation - I don't tend to a4 use Decwindows mail - and there appears to be a bug.  J The first time after a new mail message has been received when you access ? Decwindows mail it displays both an INBOX and a NEWMAIL folder.,I If you then exit Decwindows mail and go in again it then only displays anc
 INBOX folder.cN I suppose this could be regarded as a feature to bring to your attention that I new mail has arrived since you last used the Decwindows mail utility but n" I think it more likely it's a bug.  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University i   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:13:42 -0400i* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com># Subject: Re: MAIL: INBOX vs NEWMAILi) Message-ID: <3EF08FB6.B69DFB70@istop.com>c   Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann wrote:G > The DECwindows version can be configured in "Options" => "Receive..."a > * > "Name of folder which receives new mail"  M Thanks. One wonders why by default it was set to INBOX. I had mailed myself anM whole bunch of stuff, hoping to pick it up from my PDA while away, and when IyG tried, none of it was there. Upon my return, they were all files in the-6 "INBOX", which the pop server, obviously, doesn't use.   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:31:46 +0200 (MET)d9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>e3 Subject: Re: Max length of Nodename in OpenVMS 7.31r; Message-ID: <01KX8H3X59CIAM67GX@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>e  A >   Variable name lengths have nothing to do with data lengths.  m  H Of course; my fault for not thinking before posting.  Once, years ago, IF heard someone cry "long live Fortran" when he heard of the 6-characterB limit on SCSNODE and briefly remembering this was the origin of myD off-the-cuff remark earlier in this thread.  Of course, as you pointF out, the length of the name of the variable has nothing to do with the contents of that variable. e   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:24:09 +0100<* From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>3 Subject: Re: Max length of Nodename in OpenVMS 7.311, Message-ID: <bcp7ja$11gk@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>  H "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:MOQ8UbPwlZqV@eisner.encompasserve.org...   G >    What standard?  You think you can find this in the ANSI Fortran 772K >    standard?  I've never seen anything from any vendor documenting longer / >    variables as an extension to the standard.[  N http://www.fh-jena.de/~kleine/history/languages/ansi-x3dot9-1978-Fortran77.pdf Start of Section 18o   $ FORT/OLD/STANDARD Tn         INTEGER MORETHEN ..............^D; %FORT-I-EXT_NAME, Extension to FORTRAN-77: nonstandard namen   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 16:22:05 +0100r From: Dave Brennan <> 3 Subject: Re: Max length of Nodename in OpenVMS 7.31 8 Message-ID: <an01fvgverm1encffqsjoi6g5qh4vkg1p8@4ax.com>  : Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote:  B >>   Variable name lengths have nothing to do with data lengths.   > I >Of course; my fault for not thinking before posting.  Once, years ago, IoG >heard someone cry "long live Fortran" when he heard of the 6-characternC >limit on SCSNODE and briefly remembering this was the origin of myaE >off-the-cuff remark earlier in this thread.  Of course, as you point G >out, the length of the name of the variable has nothing to do with thei >contents of that variable.   E This may be true but you flushed a load of FORTRAN programmers out of  the woods with that one!   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jun 2003 12:38:55 -05004 From: kuhrt@nospammy.encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt)- Subject: php_mysql module for mod_php in CSWSi3 Message-ID: <JH48dHh+bVrf@eisner.encompasserve.org>0  ? Does anyone have a php_mysql module for mod_php in Apache (CSWS  1.2) on Alpha VMS 7.3?    1 I just installed MySQL I got from the mirror site4@ http://erebus.homeip.net/anonymous/kits/ and got it working, and> now I'd like to run a php script that fiddles with MySQL.  The= php script runs fine until it hits the call to mysql_connect,o> which it says is an undefined function (and since I don't have- the php_mysql module in place I can see why).    TIA, Martyd   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 03:15:51 -0400e* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>& Subject: Re: Portents of Itanium death2 Message-ID: <cbSdnVukpIk2jG2jXTWJgQ@metrocast.net>  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:SGLzySdBEGr9@eisner.encompasserve.org...a@ > In article <4qacnQRQZ4qO4HKjXTWJiA@metrocast.net>, "Bill Todd"  <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes: > > < > > "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message1 > > news:jomTkTPmcupf@eisner.encompasserve.org...t? > >> In article <bcno9701tlr@enews2.newsguy.com>, "Dann Corbit"s > > <dcorbit@connx.com> writes:o? > >> > "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in messagel > >> > >> >F > >> > Depends on what you are doing.  For database benchmarks and for things > > that9 > >> > need huge memory or disk, 32 bits craps out early.-   ...-  J > > There's no obvious reason that the architecture word size has anythingF > > whatsoever to do with heavy disk activity, though:  it's Opteron'sI > > significant bandwidth advantage that makes it superior to IA32 there.a > >  >  > There being where exactly?  I I think that if you actually bother to read the context before responding % inanely to it, you can figure it out.   # >  In 4-processor CPU tpmC metrics?m  D Er, no, Rob:  do you really think that TPC-C is bandwidth-intensive?   ...s  A > >> When the Xeon goes from 2.0 GHz to 2.8 GHz, the Opteron willr > >> be trailing the Xeon. > > K > > That's probably true in the specific case of TPC-C (Opteron's lead over  XeonC > > in other benchmarks probably won't be threatened, because otherc
 benchmarksJ > > don't seem nearly as cache-size-sensitive), though it's not clear fromG > > analysis of the patterns of TPC-C scores just how much better TPC-C J > > performance that 40% boost in clock rate will translate to (since evenL > > though they'll supposedly be available within weeks no one seems to haveB > > posted TPC-C results for them yet:  do you still consider that > > irresponsible?)s >r: > No.  Marketing.  Your dig is referring to my dig at AMD.  H Indeed - specifically, at your suggestion that the lack of AMD benchmarkL results for its faster Opterons said to be coming soon indicated that eitherK they were vapor or that AMD was remiss in not having submitted them - whichtH seemed rather inconsistent with your other observation that AMD was justI 'teasing' people by publishing 4-processor Opteron results in April for atH system not available until July (not to mention the fact that Intel doesF exactly the same things, depending upon which way the wind seems to be	 blowing).e  : But of course consistency has never been your strong suit.   ...e  = > >- nor how long they'll retain whatever lead they manage to0> > > eke out (since the 2 GHz Opterons are also imminently due, >d= > But as you would be quick to acknowledge, going from 1.8 to.A > 2.0 GHz certainly isn't going to do much regarding an increase.o3 > It won't be close to the 2.8 GHz MP Xeon in tpmC.i  L I think you might be wise not to count those particular tpmC chickens beforeG they've hatched.  How much a 40% clock-rate boost will help the Xeon MPlK scores depends more than anything else on the degree to which clock-rate ish% the bottleneck in the current scores.r  I For example, take the two dual-processor Xeon ProLiant ML530G2T2P systemsgL tested.  One was a 2.4 GHz (512 KB cache) system with 8 GB of RAM, the otherF a 2.8 GHz (512 KB cache) system with 16 GB of RAM.  The 2.4 GHz systemI scored 34473, the 2.8 GHz system scored 38386:  only 11% higher, a figurerG which could be explained entirely by the increase in RAM based on otherMH evidence in the chart, which if true would mean that the 17% increase inI clock speed contributed - nothing.  And while I think that interpretation K would be extreme, it remains clear that the 17% clock-rate increase yieldednL *at best* an 11% better score even if you go to the other extreme and assumeK that doubling the RAM contributed nothing; if the truth is somewhere in the K middle, one might infer that each change contributed equally, in which case1J extrapolating to the MP situation would imply that a 40% increase in clockI rate would yield only about a 13% better TPC-C score if the RAM were heldi constant at 32 GB.  L Not that I'd expect you to have bothered to examine such data before jumpingK to the conclusion that your preferred platform will just naturally wipe outiJ all competition:  that's always the attitude you had about Alpha, and thenK more recently Itanic (at Alpha's expense), and now you seem to be extendingoK it to all things Intel with the same uncritical (and uninformed) enthusiasmnH you've always shown.  If you didn't have such an obvious agenda I'd justH consider you something of a fool; as it is, I find you fairly obnoxious.   ...   ; > 43000 tpmC with 2 processors and a decent $3.71 per tpmC.h! > Where is Opteron in that space?t  E Most likely out in front.  Even if the dual-processor 1.8 GHz OpteronrL achieved only half the score of the quad-processor it would score over 41000K tpmC; anything less than absolutely linear scaling and it equals or bettersiK the 3.06 GHz dual-Xeon score above.  And given that the 4-processor OpteronsK system costs only $227K with 32 GB of RAM, getting its dual-processor price I at least down to the $160K price of the dual-Xeon box (with only 12 GB ofl RAM) shouldn't be hard.   L (There is another dual-Xeon system that scores almost 45K tpmC, but since itH costs nearly as much as the quad-Opteron box that generates nearly twice2 that score I don't think it need concern us here.)     That space gets more crowdedE > when Xeon goes to 3.4 GHz 1 MB before year-end and 533 MHz bus, 667aD > MHz bus later (1).   That 3.4 GHz 1 MByte 533 MHz FSB part at $690: > should be a shutout for Xeon in the 1-2 processor space.  J Since as noted above Opteron at 1.8 GHz should be at the very least a fullI match for the current 3.06 GHz dual Xeon box, and while the Xeon clock isaH only going up 10% by the end of the year while Opteron's is scheduled toA increase 33%, expecting anything like a 'shutout' for Xeon soundsa6 suspiciously like more of your characteristic hot air.   - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jun 2003 03:20:10 -0700. From: mistdragon@zdnetonebox.com (mist dragon)& Subject: Re: Portents of Itanium death= Message-ID: <7500353b.0306180220.733efb20@posting.google.com>n  > > 	Maybe someday x86-64 gets a tier 1 vendor to really push it
 > 	hard.    
 Like IBM ?  ) http://news.com.com/2100-1006-997827.html:  	 Like HP ?r  ( http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=5021   Like Dell ?   ? http://www.geek.com/news/geeknews/2002Nov/bch20021108017231.htmr   Like Chipset maker VIA ?  9 http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,1038968,00.asps   Like Chipset maker NVIDIA ?o  9 http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,1037628,00.aspa   Like Microsoft ?  3 http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,1013232,00.asp   # Like Linux ? (its shipping already)   C And btw, Sun's new Intel servers are created in the same factory as.@ Dells in far east and Sun has stated it will extend their x86-32 solaris to AMD's x86-64.     Mist   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jun 2003 03:40:53 -0700. From: mistdragon@zdnetonebox.com (mist dragon)& Subject: Re: Portents of Itanium death= Message-ID: <7500353b.0306180240.607b4010@posting.google.com>u  > > 	Maybe someday x86-64 gets a tier 1 vendor to really push it
 > 	hard.    	 Like HP ?   2 http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/54/31271.html   Mist   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 17:16:05 GMTr& From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net>& Subject: Re: Portents of Itanium death8 Message-ID: <6f71fv40cu7lg0ao4sul407fsi5ivgcarg@4ax.com>  G On 18 Jun 2003 03:40:53 -0700, mistdragon@zdnetonebox.com (mist dragon)  wrote:  ? >> 	Maybe someday x86-64 gets a tier 1 vendor to really push it  >> 	hard.    >n
 >Like HP ? > 3 >http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/54/31271.htmle >/  J Well, I don't think that one qualifies as a server.  Workstation platformsB are not the area where I'd be interested in x86-64 vs IA64 anyway.  J Are there any tier 1 vendors doing higher-end servers based on the x86-64?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 07:41:09 +0200a From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>, Subject: Re: Rookie question for the experts2 Message-ID: <bcoucl$6r9$1@news3.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>    Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote: > In article <00A217BD.7A751218@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>, winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") writes:  > p >>In article <cttHa.250240$lL2.2584498@news.chello.at>, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) writes: >>U >>>In article <3EEE00E1.2030006@iee.org>, Antonio Carlini <arcarlini@iee.org> writes:p >>> $ >>>>Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote: >>>>P >>>>>Only problem/annoyance I have with is the absence of multiwildcard support. >>>>E >>>>It's been a long time now since I had my hands anywhere near the OK >>>>relevant area of DECnet's guts, but IIRC it's down to the way that the ML >>>>various calls keep their context between one invocation and the next. I M >>>>suspect that it's fixable (with some considerable effort, given how deep 3H >>>>in the guts this is) but probably not deemed to be worthwhile for a 0 >>>>product that is largely in maintenance mode. >>> E >>>Geee, there is this word again: VMS software in "maintenance mode"e >>9 >>What bold new development do you want to see in DECnet?a >  >  > As was already written here ! > 1.) Multilevel Wildcard Supporto   Yes, could be handyo  - > 2.) Better graphical Management Applicationn  Q The present graphical mangement doesn't seem to work properly on my workstation, o so I agree.e   > and maybes > 3.) DECnet over [Open]SSL   O Not maybe, we should have this !! Certainly when using DECnet over IP. Sending P9 sensitive information unencrypted is not done these days.e   > just to name a few >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 08:59:16 +0100t* From: "John Travell" <john@travell.uk.net>, Subject: Re: Rookie question for the experts5 Message-ID: <bcp77a$kpsfk$1@ID-120847.news.dfncis.de>o  7 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in messagee# news:3EEFDD20.B64D7D4D@istop.com...m > "David J. Dachtera" wrote:I > > Well, yes and no. In theory, (63*1024)+1023 or 65,535 nodes total arerL > > possible in a Phase-IV only network. However, the total number is not as/ > > much an issue as the limit on area numbers.i >oD > In the DEC heydays, I can understand why you'd need a large DECNet network.H > However, today, with TCPIP as the "de-facto standard", wouldn't a very largerF > organisation be more likely to have multiple small (isolated) decnet networks: > with a corporate-wide TCPIP network to link everything ? >cC > BTW, does HP have DECNET in every sales office around the world ? 
 (inheritedE > from Compaq, inherited from Digital)  ?  What is HP's core backbonee networki > technology ?  
 tcp/ip....  ? Decnet in the UK can only communicate with DECnet in the US via  DECnet/IP.....= This will not have changed in the 6 months since I left them.      -- John Travell  VMS crashdump expertise for hire john@travell.uk.netl http://www.travell.uk.net/       ---n& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A Version: 6.0.489 / Virus Database: 288 - Release Date: 10/06/2003e   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 16:21:16 GMT09 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>rI Subject: Re: SEC:U MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1, Motif 1.3 and HP TCP/IP XDM (long)i1 Message-ID: <0k0Ia.2870$tA1.911@news.cpqcorp.net>1  C VMS added a feature it had lacked.  Magic-Cookie.  A component that K potentially could use this wasn't updated.  Was it an oversight?  Yes.  XDMaG is not widely used on VMS that I know of.  TCPIP added it because othern5 vendors, like Multi-Net provided it with their stack.   J XDM is an ugly little interface, and probably most people today use RSH orK REXEC to kick off a DECW$STARTLOGIN - which gets you the familiar VMS logina box.  8 So most people have not been stymied by the lack of XDM.  I Will XDM be updated?  Yes.  We are discussing it internally.  And in factlF your note has been passed around internally.  But there seems to be anI expectation that you want a patch for it tomorrow...  I can't say when itwF will be done - or if it is simple or hard to do - I don't know at thisI point.  But both the DECwindows developers and TCPIP developers have beens made aware of the request.    + "Dirk Munk" <munk@home.nl> wrote in message , news:bchses$1eh$1@news2.tilbu1.nb.home.nl...I > To start with, you may have noticed that there are not that many people4J > participating in this newsgroup. It seems there are still something like 450,000dJ > VMS systems around, and if only 1% of those systems would be represented by oneJ > person here, we would see 4,500 name popping up in this newsgroup. There are far  > less contributors I'm afraid.o > H > So it may well be that others have the same problems as you, but don't	 read thisd > newsgroup. >rL > On the other hand that is not really the issue. The problem you are facing is aL > problem that we can see more often, and not just with HP. In your case theJ > problem is that no one seems to be reponsible for the Motif architecture as aJ > whole, that is including for instance the TCP/IP changes that have to be made toeK >   bring the Motif environment up to today's standard. Someone should have  toldH > the TCP/IP engineers to make the necesarry changes, and he should have	 made sure J > the work was done. Somehow this did not happen, and that is poor productH > management in my view, and that is the real problem. Now you are stuck with anTD > unfinished product, and you as a customer really don't care who is
 reponsible8 > for that, the Motif engineers or the TCP/IP engineers. >tJ > I'm facing a similar problem that HP isn't going to solve on short term. > J > TCP/IP services for VMS can also be used as a BIND server, and it can be usedH > with dynamic DNS updates. So in that respect TCP/IP services are up to date.  >mK > As we all know we can cluster VMS sytems for high availability, and so we  canoH > also make a clustered BIND server. This is great, most likely the only such > product around.n >.L > However you can NOT use dynamic updates with such a clustered BIND server. >bK > Now if you want to build a VMS TCP/IP production cluster, it will use the 5 > Loadbroker, and that relies on dynamic DNS updates.n > I > So there we have a high availability clustered VMS BIND server that cana not beJ > used with high availability production clusters, because the BIND server can notgK > be used with the dynamic DNS updates that the production cluster needs !!a > H > This is just as silly as your problem. If this wasn't the case I could	 recommend J > using VMS BIND servers to our network group. They don't have a sollution for aiI > failing master BIND server, except by manually 'promoting' a slave BINDc server > to master BIND server. > J > These inconsistencies are very irritating and harm the reputation of the6 > products, specialy when HP doesn't want to fix them. >- >- >- >  >a >  > Mark Daniel wrote:J > > Well, it's been a fortnight (or whatever the metric equivalent of thatD > > is these days) and this issue has generated only the *slightest*' > > interest from the c.o.v. community.  > >:L > > The only conclusion I can draw from this is what is such a *significant*H > > problem for our environment is unique to us (I'm tempted to add - inA > > contrast to so many, seemingly off-topic threads, that do gete@ > > considerable discussion in this forum). No one else needs toJ > > interoperate in heterogenous X environments?  It would seem then, thatJ > > DEC/Cpq/HP have made the correct call on where their resources need to2 > > be deployed (and who can blame them for that). > > J > > I'll (one more time) need to go, cap-in-hand, to those that administerJ > > our environment and explain that VMS, yes - once again, cannot be madeG > > to integrate into that.  Oh well, perhaps RLM made the correct calluJ > > after-all.  Shame.  Never thought I'd be resigned to it, but you can't' > > swim against the tide indefinitely.e > >7J > > +--------------------------------------------------------------------+H > >  Mark Daniel                         http://wasd.vsm.com.au/adelaideI > >  mailto:Mark.Daniel@wasd.vsm.com.au (Mark.Daniel@dsto.defence.gov.au)cJ > > +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ >    ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 16:09:48 +0000 (UTC)l+ From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb)6I Subject: Re: SEC:U MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1, Motif 1.3 and HP TCP/IP XDM (long)l+ Message-ID: <bcq2sc$k52$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>C  m In article <0k0Ia.2870$tA1.911@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> writes:MD >VMS added a feature it had lacked.  Magic-Cookie.  A component thatL >potentially could use this wasn't updated.  Was it an oversight?  Yes.  XDMH >is not widely used on VMS that I know of.  TCPIP added it because other6 >vendors, like Multi-Net provided it with their stack. >NK >XDM is an ugly little interface, and probably most people today use RSH orrL >REXEC to kick off a DECW$STARTLOGIN - which gets you the familiar VMS login >box.  >o9 >So most people have not been stymied by the lack of XDM.  >i  L I think most people wanted XDM but since it wasn't forthcoming they used the? workarounds of RSH and REXEC which are pretty ugly workarounds.eL So yes people weren't stymied by lack of XDM but lots weren't happy about it not being available.    
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University    J >Will XDM be updated?  Yes.  We are discussing it internally.  And in factG >your note has been passed around internally.  But there seems to be annJ >expectation that you want a patch for it tomorrow...  I can't say when itG >will be done - or if it is simple or hard to do - I don't know at this J >point.  But both the DECwindows developers and TCPIP developers have been >made aware of the request.s >o >l, >"Dirk Munk" <munk@home.nl> wrote in message- >news:bchses$1eh$1@news2.tilbu1.nb.home.nl...eJ >> To start with, you may have noticed that there are not that many peopleK >> participating in this newsgroup. It seems there are still something likep >450,000K >> VMS systems around, and if only 1% of those systems would be representedm >by oneuK >> person here, we would see 4,500 name popping up in this newsgroup. Theree >are far  >> less contributors I'm afraid. >>I >> So it may well be that others have the same problems as you, but don't 
 >read this
 >> newsgroup.  >>M >> On the other hand that is not really the issue. The problem you are facings >is a M >> problem that we can see more often, and not just with HP. In your case thefK >> problem is that no one seems to be reponsible for the Motif architectureS >as aoK >> whole, that is including for instance the TCP/IP changes that have to be  >made toL >>   bring the Motif environment up to today's standard. Someone should have >toldrI >> the TCP/IP engineers to make the necesarry changes, and he should havep
 >made sureK >> the work was done. Somehow this did not happen, and that is poor product I >> management in my view, and that is the real problem. Now you are stucks >with anE >> unfinished product, and you as a customer really don't care who isB >reponsiblel9 >> for that, the Motif engineers or the TCP/IP engineers.s >>K >> I'm facing a similar problem that HP isn't going to solve on short term.n >>K >> TCP/IP services for VMS can also be used as a BIND server, and it can be. >usediI >> with dynamic DNS updates. So in that respect TCP/IP services are up toP >date. >>L >> As we all know we can cluster VMS sytems for high availability, and so we >canI >> also make a clustered BIND server. This is great, most likely the only- >suchL >> product around. >>M >> However you can NOT use dynamic updates with such a clustered BIND server.d >>L >> Now if you want to build a VMS TCP/IP production cluster, it will use the6 >> Loadbroker, and that relies on dynamic DNS updates. >>J >> So there we have a high availability clustered VMS BIND server that can >not be0K >> used with high availability production clusters, because the BIND server  >can notL >> be used with the dynamic DNS updates that the production cluster needs !! >>I >> This is just as silly as your problem. If this wasn't the case I could%
 >recommendK >> using VMS BIND servers to our network group. They don't have a sollution  >for aJ >> failing master BIND server, except by manually 'promoting' a slave BIND >serverh >> to master BIND server.> >>K >> These inconsistencies are very irritating and harm the reputation of theY7 >> products, specialy when HP doesn't want to fix them.r >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Mark Daniel wrote:tK >> > Well, it's been a fortnight (or whatever the metric equivalent of that.E >> > is these days) and this issue has generated only the *slightest*e( >> > interest from the c.o.v. community. >> >M >> > The only conclusion I can draw from this is what is such a *significant*-I >> > problem for our environment is unique to us (I'm tempted to add - ingB >> > contrast to so many, seemingly off-topic threads, that do getA >> > considerable discussion in this forum). No one else needs to<K >> > interoperate in heterogenous X environments?  It would seem then, thatcK >> > DEC/Cpq/HP have made the correct call on where their resources need toa3 >> > be deployed (and who can blame them for that).  >> >K >> > I'll (one more time) need to go, cap-in-hand, to those that administer K >> > our environment and explain that VMS, yes - once again, cannot be madedH >> > to integrate into that.  Oh well, perhaps RLM made the correct callK >> > after-all.  Shame.  Never thought I'd be resigned to it, but you can't ( >> > swim against the tide indefinitely. >> >K >> > +--------------------------------------------------------------------+oI >> >  Mark Daniel                         http://wasd.vsm.com.au/adelaidetJ >> >  mailto:Mark.Daniel@wasd.vsm.com.au (Mark.Daniel@dsto.defence.gov.au)K >> > +--------------------------------------------------------------------+a >> >e >E   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 16:35:38 GMTX9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>nI Subject: Re: SEC:U MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1, Motif 1.3 and HP TCP/IP XDM (long) 2 Message-ID: <ux0Ia.2874$qD1.2760@news.cpqcorp.net>  < "Dirk Munk" <munk@home.nl> wrote in message news:bcikab$ls9>L > I did understand that. But the two are connected, so if it is 'normal' forL > present day versions of Motif to be accompanied by a newer version of XDM, thenJ > such a version of XDM should also be available on VMS when a new version of > Motif is released. >w  I This is not a "version" issue with XDM.  It hasn't been compiled with therL magic cookie support because Xlib didn't support magic cookie.  It does now,: and XDM needs the support compiled in and debugged on VMS.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 16:36:21 GMTy9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>dI Subject: Re: SEC:U MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1, Motif 1.3 and HP TCP/IP XDM (long)i2 Message-ID: <9y0Ia.2875$qD1.1758@news.cpqcorp.net>  7 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in messages# news:3EEFD12D.B57EBACF@istop.com...a > Dirk Munk wrote:J > > I did understand that. But the two are connected, so if it is 'normal' for I > > present day versions of Motif to be accompanied by a newer version ofv XDM, >-I > For what its worth, MI-X, the X-terminal software for old MACs uses theTL > MIT-MAGIC-COOKIES, so that technology can't be that recent. The XMD server waswG > introduiced with TCPIP Service 5.3, which *is* brand new. There is no? excuse.   I THERE WAS NO SUPPORT IN XLIB FOR IT, SO XDM DIDN'T INCLUDE IT!  NOW THEREe> IS, AND IN SOME FUTURE RELEASE IT SHOULD BE CHANGED TO USE IT.   Sheesh.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 16:25:41 GMTe9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>EI Subject: Re: SEC:U MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1, Motif 1.3 and HP TCP/IP XDM (long) 2 Message-ID: <9o0Ia.2872$OC1.2015@news.cpqcorp.net>  7 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in messager# news:3EEC99BB.9F3D1E47@istop.com...- > Dirk Munk wrote:L > > participating in this newsgroup. It seems there are still something like 450,000. > > VMS systems around,I >XI > This figure is good to publish to help kill the image that VMS is dead,e but IsD > personally do not find it credible in terms of "active" VMS sites. > L > > problem is that no one seems to be reponsible for the Motif architecture as aL > > whole, that is including for instance the TCP/IP changes that have to be made to 9 > >   bring the Motif environment up to today's standard.m > K > 1- Motif is progressing nicely. It is up to version 2.1 I think (or is it L > 2.0). Ironically, it is available on HP-UX. But VMS has a very old version ofJ > Motif. Someone took a decision that VMS wouldn't be scalable anymore and would $ > only run on wildfireclass systems.  H In fact, the most widely used version of Motif is 1.2-5 -- which is veryL old, and what VMS uses.  V2.1 broke binary compatability and has caused many7 vendors to phase it in (offering both V1.2-5 and V2.1).t  J Motif has little to do with the size of the system.  Even a Wildfire needs7 it if you want to use many of the e-tools -- like JAVA.g  I After having gotten the X11 bits up to X11R6.6, we are now about to startn? work on getting xm (the motif library) to V2.1/2 (or whatever).i   .h   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 17:32:43 GMTr9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>hI Subject: Re: SEC:U MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1, Motif 1.3 and HP TCP/IP XDM (long)n2 Message-ID: <%m1Ia.2881$aB1.2270@news.cpqcorp.net>  8 "David Webb" <david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk> wrote in message% news:bcq2sc$k52$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk...y >tJ > I think most people wanted XDM but since it wasn't forthcoming they used themA > workarounds of RSH and REXEC which are pretty ugly workarounds.*K > So yes people weren't stymied by lack of XDM but lots weren't happy aboute it > not being available. >r  I Granted.  but also this is a feature that is something like 15+ years oldRB and has never been on VMS.  So getting bent out of shape about theG sequencing of upgrading of the X11 bits and adding the functionality...aF lighten up a little.  As we shift to an IP focus, we're slowly filling
 things in.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:59:33 -0400r* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>I Subject: Re: SEC:U MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1, Motif 1.3 and HP TCP/IP XDM (long)h) Message-ID: <3EF09A72.364CE89A@istop.com>o   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:M > potentially could use this wasn't updated.  Was it an oversight?  Yes.  XDM , > is not widely used on VMS that I know of.     M XDM isn't widely used because it wasn't supported until TCPIP 5.3. It is like0= saying an Amputee doesn't need to run because it has no legs.   M In the heydays of Digital workstation and X terminals, how did the standalonex1 "dumb" X-terminals get their sessions initiated ?>  L > XDM is an ugly little interface, and probably most people today use RSH orM > REXEC to kick off a DECW$STARTLOGIN - which gets you the familiar VMS logina > box.  K Ugly ???? X server sends broadcast "who wants to be my client". One or morevN hosts respond "me !". X-server chooses which one, and tells it "ok, you've won# the right to connect to me , do it"a  K (and in non-broadcast mode, the X-server sends the same request to just thesP one designated VMS host, VMS host makes its offer, X-terminal accepts and voila.  L But many X terminal (or emulators) require some authentication scheme. VMS'sV CDM supports one, but does support what seems to be the more popular MIT magic cookie.  : > So most people have not been stymied by the lack of XDM.  H That is because you guys at Digital had been so busy sending workstationD customers over to Sun and other manufacturers for the last 13 years.  ? > Will XDM be updated?  Yes.  We are discussing it internally.    K While you are at it, you should note that the current XDM software presentsnJ its own login screen/process. This piece of software does not generate anyI alarms when an invalid username/ password is entered, nor does it trigger  break in evasion/detection etc.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 16:31:52 +0100y From: Dave Brennan <> " Subject: Re: Small village and IBM8 Message-ID: <6411fv85843hd60ajjt8ni1u58nq3i0n5q@4ax.com>  + JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote:u  B The story that used to be told in Digital in the old days was like# comparing two firms of undertakers.e  E IBM would come along and say sorry about your loss, we will take care: of it!   DEC would come along and say:-  ! We have a great range of coffins.   $ We have a good transport department.  ) We have third party people who dig holes.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 01:53:21 -0400k* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> Subject: Softpc and privileges) Message-ID: <3EEFFE42.AA7B4534@istop.com>I  3 OK, this is a strange one... but is a bit puzzling.   M I start SOFTPC on an account that has all mighty privileges (essentially whatrK SYSTEM has) *AND* is part of the system group. Yet, SOFTPC refuses to map an! DOS drive to a directory stating:e  6 "The host file system directory must have read access"  K Considering I tried this from an all mighty account, I am quite perplexed. u  N Also, if an image purposefully disables privileges, will SHOW PROC/ALL reflectK this, or does it reflect the privileges in effect at the time the image wasd activated ?m  M Is there a way with ANA/SYS to list the process privileges curently in effect I ? (from process privs, installed image privs, image-deactivated/activatednN privs, and even system services privileges if the process is currentlty inside a system service ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:47:57 +0100:( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>" Subject: Re: Softpc and privileges) Message-ID: <3EF0516D.61C95ECA@127.0.0.1>e   JF Mezei wrote:r > O > Is there a way with ANA/SYS to list the process privileges curently in effect K > ? (from process privs, installed image privs, image-deactivated/activated?P > privs, and even system services privileges if the process is currentlty inside > a system service ?  
 $ ANAL/SYS! SDA> READ SYS$SYSTEM:SYSDEF (VAX)/, SDA> READ SYS$LOADABLE_IMAGES:SYSDEF (Alpha)+ SDA> SHOW PROCESS (look for address of PCB)  SDA> FORMAT pcb-hex-address.  G Down this list is the privilege mask (plus others), which is documented  in...-  H OK, at first glance I've not spotted where the mask and bit meanings areG documented. PCB$Q_PRIV is the current one I believe, but looking at thegG Internals and Datastructures, you'll see the default process privilegesBH as well as those brought from installed privileged images. An image doesF have the capability to (correctly) drop (installed) privileges that it enters with.  F I've not delved into this personally, but this is your starter for 10.   -- d? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencesh nclews at csc dot coma   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 01:47:16 -0400o* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>$ Subject: Re: Sun to be the next DEC!2 Message-ID: <hNKcnXrKKfx0YXKjXTWJig@metrocast.net>  7 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in messagea# news:3EEFD8BB.D678183A@istop.com...- > Bill Todd wrote:I > > vendor support niches aren't anything to be sneezed at), its softwareuE > > directions are about as ho-hum as everyone else's (which seems to@ satisfyc; > > the current market), *and it listens to its customers*.o >hJ > One aspect of the article which has credibility is that if Sun continues toI > focus on hardware sales to generate profits, the squeeze to low margin,k lowaD > cost hardware by competitors may squeeze profits right out of Sun.  K And exactly what low-cost, low-margin hardware would that be?  Sun seems toaG have managed to meet 2- to 8-processor IA32 servers head-on better thancL anyone else so far, and Itanic isn't looking all that 'low-cost, low-margin'F yet at all (though Opteron certainly poses a threat in that area if itI gathers wide acceptance and one would hope that Sun had adoption plans inXJ place for that contingency - though trying to *cause* that to happen might# not be in its interests right now).a     But if SunL > starts to charge more for Solaris, then it may lose market share to Linux.  J Sun should do fine as soon as the market starts to recover:  its customersL seem happy to pay a reasonable price for the hardware, software, and supportL that Sun gives them, and at least many will continue to prefer the perceived: solidity of Solaris to the more adventurous move to Linux.  H Sun does, however, need to stick to its knitting and avoid being seen asJ thrashing about in what could be perceived as desperation:  image seems to be fairly important right now.   - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jun 2003 05:38:52 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)$ Subject: Re: Sun to be the next DEC!= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0306180438.113b99da@posting.google.com>e  [ JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message news:<3EEFD6D6.FA3C4A0E@istop.com>...o > Bob Ceculski wrote:  > > O > > http://techupdate.zdnet.com/techupdate/stories/main/0,14179,2914032,00.html  >  > O > The article shows a lot of bias in my opnion. While it is true that linux and N > wintel do pose a serious challenge, it may not mean the end of "prorpietary"- > systems (windows is proprietary after all).c > O > Interesting that they say that if Sun doesn't go "wintel", it may end up like N > Digital. Ironic that Digital went belly up exactly because it abandonned its# > own products in favour of Wintel.  > P > Does Linux DRIVE technology or does it follow ? If it doesn't drive/lead, thenM > you need some other systems that do. VMS, Solaris and IBM's MVS are perhapsl0 > the leaders. Does HP-UX have anything unique ? > P > I also found it interesting that they claim that Solaris isn't seen as a driveI > of Web services. I was under the clear impression that it was the exact.K > opposite. When Banks woke up and had to scramble to put a presence on the  > internet, theyr chose Sun.  ; they should of chose VMS ... now they are getting hacked to  pieces on the web ...i   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 14:12:47 GMTr# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> $ Subject: Re: Sun to be the next DEC!I Message-ID: <zr_Ha.135525$3Sm.15394@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>t  5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in messageg7 news:d7791aa1.0306180438.113b99da@posting.google.com...)7 > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in messageg% news:<3EEFD6D6.FA3C4A0E@istop.com>...y > > Bob Ceculski wrote:t > > >a > > > F http://techupdate.zdnet.com/techupdate/stories/main/0,14179,2914032,00 .htmlu > >d > >uB > > The article shows a lot of bias in my opnion. While it is true that linux andB > > wintel do pose a serious challenge, it may not mean the end of
 "prorpietary"h/ > > systems (windows is proprietary after all).a > >CE > > Interesting that they say that if Sun doesn't go "wintel", it mayl end up likenA > > Digital. Ironic that Digital went belly up exactly because it  abandonned its% > > own products in favour of Wintel.  > > A > > Does Linux DRIVE technology or does it follow ? If it doesn'tm drive/lead, thenC > > you need some other systems that do. VMS, Solaris and IBM's MVS  are perhapsa2 > > the leaders. Does HP-UX have anything unique ? > >dB > > I also found it interesting that they claim that Solaris isn't seen as a driveeE > > of Web services. I was under the clear impression that it was theh exact,F > > opposite. When Banks woke up and had to scramble to put a presence on the > > internet, theyr chose Sun. >r= > they should of chose VMS ... now they are getting hacked toc > pieces on the web ...   E Nobody marketed VMS to them. And VMS was not perceived at the time touC be 'internet aware', despite the fact that the internet was born one  DEC gear and VMS to some extent.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 08:20:51 -0400e# From: "rob kas" <rob@paychoice.com>iH Subject: Re: Sun's Migration Campaign To Target VMS (And Tru64 & HP3000)7 Message-ID: <Q9YHa.46$5w4.14745746@news.netcarrier.net>p  <  Show even with  much weaker products what marketing can do.  %                                   Robo      6 >    Sun targets AIX with new campaign - Computerworld > ( > The original link, wrapped to 2 lines: >o? >    http://www.computerworld.com/softwaretopics/os/unix/story/x >    0,10801,82209,00.html6 >    Sun targets AIX with new campaign - Computerworld > & >   "Sun targets AIX with new campaign3 >    It's hoping to capitalize on the IBM/SCO fighti >o) >    By Robert McMillan, IDG News Servicei >    JUNE 17, 2003 >  >    Content Type: Story >    Source: IDG News Serviceh > J >    Looking to capitalize on IBM's legal dispute with The SCO Group Inc.,E >    Sun Microsystems Inc. is readying a new AIX-to-Solaris migrationeG >    program that will kick off tomorrow with full-page ads in The Wallr2 >    Street Journal and the San Jose Mercury News. >eK >    The advertisements, designed by New York-based J. Walter Thompson Co.,2F >    will obliquely refer to SCO's $1 billion lawsuit with IBM and itsC >    recent announcement that it had terminated IBM's AIX licensingoJ >    agreement (see story), and they will present Sun's Solaris as a safer$ >    version of Unix than IBM's AIX. >h >    [snip]O >rH >    Sun expects to roll out similar migration campaigns for a number ofJ >    other rival systems during the next few months. Hewlett-Packard Co.'sF >    Tru64, VMS and HP3000 operating systems are being targeted, as isG >    Windows NT, for which Sun will be offering a migration program fori >    Solaris on x86. >.G >    Sun had originally planned roll out its Tru64-to-Solaris migration G >    program first, Singer said, but as SCO's lawsuit with IBM remainedoD >    unresolved, the company decided to move up the AIX program. "WeH >    thought we'd just pull it out a little earlier for [AIX] because of= >    the opportunity that IBM has handed us," said Singer..."  >i > 4 > --Jerry Leslie   (my opinions are strictly my own); >   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for email)   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:42:30 -050078 From: "Scandora, Anthony E., Jr." <Scandora@cmt.anl.gov> Subject: Re: TLZ07 compaction?+ Message-ID: <bcq8a6$ma0$1@milo.mcs.anl.gov>.  E Aha!  I used the /MEDIA=COMP qualifier on the $ BACKUP command, whichtI apparently was ignored because I did not use it on the $ MOUNT command as/I shown in your example.  Once I used it there, I got a good full backup onh	 one tape.e  G (VMS V6.2 does not have a /DENSITY=DDS2 qualifer, but that's OK with mee2 because a full backup fits on a single DDS1 tape.)   Thanks, 1 Tony Scandora, Argonne National Lab, 630-252-7541s scandora@cmt.anl.gov      C "Adolf Sonderegger" <adolf.sonderegger@bluewin.ch> wrote in message $ news:3EE2F3DA.D6A24D8D@bluewin.ch... >u >a$ > "Scandora, Anthony E., Jr." wrote: >aL > > I have an old MicroVAX 3100 Model 30 that had an Archive-branded Python, the0L > > same drive that Digital resold as a TLZ06.  VMS 6.2 ran the Archive justL > > like a TLZ06 except it always had compaction on whether or not you asked foreG > > it, which was fine with me because it fit a full backup on a single  tape..G > > Then the Python died.  I replaced it with a genuine Digital-branded  TLZ07,8 > > and now a full backup does not fit on a single tape. > >0L > > Is TLZ07 compaction the same as TLZ06?  I said /media=comp in standalone anda= > > online backup.  Should I have used a different qualifier?  > >  > > Thanks,05 > > Tony Scandora, Argonne National Lab, 630-252-7541r > > scandora@cmt.anl.gov >- > Hallo  >r* > TLZ06 can handle 60m and 90m DAT (DDS1).> > TLZ07 can Handle 60m and 90m DAT (DDS1) and 120m DAT (DDS2). >hI > There are tow Qalifiers on OpenVMS/ALPHA V7.3-1: /DENSITY /MEDIA_FORMATn >a > Commands for a 120m DAT:? > $ INITIALIZE/DENSITY=DDS2/MEDIA_FORMAT=COMPACTION tape: labeli< > $ MOUNT/DENSITY=DDS2/MEDIA_FORMAT=COMPACTION/FOREIGN tape: > $ BACKUP/IMAGE disk: >-L tape:/SAVE_SET/LABEL=label/DENSITY=DDS2/MEDIA_FORMAT=COMPACTION/BLOCK_SIZE=3 2256 >R	 > regardsu > Adolf Sondereggers >e   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jun 2003 09:40:58 -0700% From: gcwolf@hotmail.com (Gerry Wolf)7- Subject: Veritas - Netbackup on Alpha OpenVMSL= Message-ID: <ee97bc05.0306180840.5a7255ef@posting.google.com>    Greetings from Seattle,5  B I have come into a group in my company that has four Alpha OpenVMS systems.B These systems have Netbackup running on them. The previous SystemsF Administrator did not leave any documentation on how to retrieve filesE from this way of doing backups. The help facility that runs on two of F the systems are extremely limited. The other two systems help facility does not work at all.t  F Is there anyone out there than can assist me on how to recover a wholeD disk, a file, do a directory listing, etc... I will need to document this for people who back me up.t   Gerald(Gerry) Wolf e  Systems Administrator, (  HP e3000 MPE/iX & HP UX  Prod. Systems +  SMARTS Alpha OpenVMS   Dev / Prod Systems    desk ph: (253)931-4306l   ------------------------------   Date: 18 Jun 03 10:54:06 PST From: mckinneyj@cpva.saic.come1 Subject: Re: Veritas - Netbackup on Alpha OpenVMSs( Message-ID: <+TLODx$AAw1p@cpva.saic.com>  = In article <ee97bc05.0306180840.5a7255ef@posting.google.com>, (  gcwolf@hotmail.com (Gerry Wolf) writes: > Greetings from Seattle,n > D > I have come into a group in my company that has four Alpha OpenVMS
 > systems.D > These systems have Netbackup running on them. The previous SystemsH > Administrator did not leave any documentation on how to retrieve filesG > from this way of doing backups. The help facility that runs on two of H > the systems are extremely limited. The other two systems help facility > does not work at all.< > H > Is there anyone out there than can assist me on how to recover a wholeF > disk, a file, do a directory listing, etc... I will need to document! > this for people who back me up.e >  > Gerald(Gerry) Wolf c >  Systems Administrator, * >  HP e3000 MPE/iX & HP UX  Prod. Systems - >  SMARTS Alpha OpenVMS   Dev / Prod Systems o >  desk ph: (253)931-4306e  K Here's an extract from something I once wrote that should help - some linesr will wrap...  H In order to enact a restore of data stored on the NetBackup server it isI necessary to understand a couple of terms. First and foremost is the term J "image'. In the context of VMS BACKUP it refers to the mode of backup thatJ results in a complete and functional copy of a disk volume. In the contextE of NetBackup an "image" refers the collection of files saved during alB single NetBackup execution - these files are grouped together in aG NetBackup "image". Another term that should be understood is "alternate G client". This phrase refers to the ability of one client to access datah saved from another client.  G Once NetBackup has saved data to the NetBackup server it can be browsedtD using various incantations of its DIRECTORY command. In its simplestG format the DIRECTORY command will list out the VMS files saved into theyC most recent NetBackup image created from the client that issues the8@ DIRECTORY command. The following example demonstrates the simple NetBackup DIRECTORY command.     CWSRVR$ run nbu$bpcd NBU> show client7 %NBU-I-VERSION, VERITAS NetBackup OpenVMS Client V4.5GAI> %NBU-I-CLINAME, client name cwsrvr.mydomain.com (152.121.2.60); %NBU-I-CONNECT, connection from cwsrvr (152.121.2.60, 2083)c< %NBU-I-CONRECV, connection received on (152.121.2.60, 13782)B %NBU-I-NETBUFF, network send buffer size 131072 bytes (128 Kbytes)A %NBU-I-SYSVERS, AlphaServer DS10 617 MHz running OpenVMS V7.3-1  r4 %NBU-I-CLIMAGE, dsa0:[openv.netbackup]bpcd_axp.exe;1F %NBU-I-TIMZONE, client/server NBU$TIMEZONE_DIFFERENTIAL -18000 secondsB %NBU-I-AUTHSRV, authorized server nbprod1.uscg.mil (152.121.2.253) NBU> directory  @ Directory of cwsrvr.mydomain.com_1044234134  2-FEB-2003 20:02:14  P DISK$BUDISK:[SYADMIN]CWSRVR__IMAGE__DSA0__2003-02-02_1730.BCK;1 (1835330 blocks)O DISK$BUDISK:[SYADMIN]CWSRVR__IMAGE__DSA1__2003-02-02_1730.BCK;1 (345940 blocks)w    Total of 2 files, 2181270 blocks NBU>    D Of, course, the NetBackup server is likely storing many "images". InB order to see the contents of a prior "image" it is necessary to beA specific in your DIRECTORY request. For example here we acquire a@A listing of available images written by this client and then drillnD down and inspect a specific image by specifying its "image backupid" on the DIRECTORY command line..i   NBU> directory/imagea Backupid                         Backup Date               Files     Blocks  Sched        Policy  ^ cwsrvr.mydomain.com_1044234134   2-FEB-2003 20:02:14          5    2198762  SunFull-2000 CHCS ^ cwsrvr.mydomain.com_1043629337  26-JAN-2003 20:02:17          5    2332624  SunFull-2000 CHCS ^ cwsrvr.mydomain.com_1043024534  19-JAN-2003 20:02:14          7    4267984  SunFull-2000 CHCS 0 NBU> directory/id=cwsrvr.mydomain.com_1043024534  @ Directory of cwsrvr.mydomain.com_1043024534 19-JAN-2003 20:02:14  P DISK$BUDISK:[SYADMIN]CWSRVR__IMAGE__DSA0__2003-01-14_1018.BCK;1 (1863610 blocks)P DISK$BUDISK:[SYADMIN]CWSRVR__IMAGE__DSA0__2003-01-19_1730.BCK;1 (1813665 blocks)O DISK$BUDISK:[SYADMIN]CWSRVR__IMAGE__DSA1__2003-01-14_1018.BCK;1 (137725 blocks)hO DISK$BUDISK:[SYADMIN]CWSRVR__IMAGE__DSA1__2003-01-19_1730.BCK;1 (419090 blocks)a    Total of 4 files, 4234090 blocks NBU>    H Should it be necessary to restore a particular file, it may be retrievedG by requesting file name and image id. Continuing with the prior exampleuD we see how a BACKUP SAVE_SET that was stored on the NetBackup server) could be restored to an "alternate path".i    4 NBU> restore/log/id=cwsrvr.mydomain.com_1043024534 -I  CWSRVR__IMAGE__DSA1__2003-01-14_1018.BCK /to=sys$sysdevice:[000000]t.bckdL %NBU-I-RESTBID, cwsrvr.mydomain.com_1043024534 19-JAN-2003 20:02:14 restore A   /DISK$BUDISK/SYADMIN/CWSRVR__IMAGE__DSA1__2003-01-14_1018.BCK;1     I Currently, due to a bug in the NetBackup client software, it is necessarylH to monitor the target destination area for restoration of the VMS BACKUPH SAVE_SET. This can be done with a "DIRECTORY/SIZE=ALLOCATED" command andF comparing the used blocks with the number of blocks that the NetBackupD DIRECTORY command reports the file as consuming. Once all blocks areF accounted for the NetBackup RESTORE may be aborted (with a CTRL-Y). ItC may take a minute or two before the file initially appears on disk.n  F If it ever becomes necessary to restore the files that were saved fromI another NetBackup client an "alternate client" restore must be performed.lD The ability to access data saved by other clients is controlled by aC security system on the NetBackup server. All CHCS systems have been D granted access to read data saved by another system. The formula forG this sort of restore is similar to restoring one's own data except thateF the /CLIENT qualifier must be specified on each NetBackup command lineG and the fully qualified domain name of the owner client provided as theeC associated value. The possible values for the client qualifier are:i   CWSRVR.mydomain.comt PRAA2.mydomain.com EASTAB2.mydomain.com CENAA2.mydomain.com  PACAB2.mydomain.com. AKAA2.mydomain.com HIAA2.mydomain.com    G Following is an example of locating and restoring a VMS BACKUP SAVE_SET  created by another client.     CWSRVR$ run nbu$bpcd NBU> show client7 %NBU-I-VERSION, VERITAS NetBackup OpenVMS Client V4.5GA > %NBU-I-CLINAME, client name cwsrvr.mydomain.com (152.121.2.60); %NBU-I-CONNECT, connection from cwsrvr (152.121.2.60, 2094) < %NBU-I-CONRECV, connection received on (152.121.2.60, 13782)B %NBU-I-NETBUFF, network send buffer size 131072 bytes (128 Kbytes)A %NBU-I-SYSVERS, AlphaServer DS10 617 MHz running OpenVMS V7.3-1  o4 %NBU-I-CLIMAGE, dsa0:[openv.netbackup]bpcd_axp.exe;1F %NBU-I-TIMZONE, client/server NBU$TIMEZONE_DIFFERENTIAL -18000 secondsB %NBU-I-AUTHSRV, authorized server nbprod1.uscg.mil (152.121.2.253)0 NBU> directory/image/client=EASTAB2.mydomain.coma Backupid                          Backup Date              Files     Blocks  Sched        Policy -^ eastab2.mydomain.com_1044234128   2-FEB-2003 20:02:08       100   63891394  SunFull-2000 CHCS ^ eastab2.mydomain.com_1043629331  26-JAN-2003 20:02:11        41   37701328  SunFull-2000 CHCS ^ eastab2.mydomain.com_1043024692  19-JAN-2003 20:04:52         8   20896082  SunFull-2000 CHCS ^ eastab2.mydomain.com_1042583470  14-JAN-2003 17:31:10         5      33352  SunFull-2000 CHCS ^ eastab2.mydomain.com_1042228576  10-JAN-2003 14:56:16         0         64  testfull     CHCS ^ eastab2.mydomain.com_1042227472  10-JAN-2003 14:37:52         6   10820210  testfull     CHCS ^ eastab2.mydomain.com_1042214272  10-JAN-2003 10:57:52         5        774  testfull     CHCS M NBU> directory/client=EASTAB2.mydomain.com/id=eastab2.mydomain.com_1043629331e  A Directory of eastab2.mydomain.com_1043629331 26-JAN-2003 20:02:11   R DISK$BUDISK:[SYADMIN]EAST__IMAGE__$1$DGA12__2003-01-25_0900.BCK;1 (2491269 blocks)R DISK$BUDISK:[SYADMIN]EAST__IMAGE__$1$DGA13__2003-01-25_0903.BCK;1 (1219680 blocks)R DISK$BUDISK:[SYADMIN]EAST__IMAGE__$1$DGA14__2003-01-25_0904.BCK;1 (5770312 blocks)R DISK$BUDISK:[SYADMIN]EAST__IMAGE__$1$DGA15__2003-01-25_0911.BCK;1 (2457873 blocks)Q DISK$BUDISK:[SYADMIN]EAST__JRNL__AAA__2003-01-25_0202__SYNC.BCK;1 (355740 blocks)XP DISK$BUDISK:[SYADMIN]EAST__JRNL__AAA__2003-01-26_0201__SYNC.BCK;1 (51183 blocks)Q DISK$BUDISK:[SYADMIN]EAST__JRNL__BBB__2003-01-25_0201__SYNC.BCK;1 (254100 blocks)nP DISK$BUDISK:[SYADMIN]EAST__JRNL__BBB__2003-01-26_0201__SYNC.BCK;1 (51183 blocks)Q DISK$BUDISK:[SYADMIN]EAST__JRNL__CCC__2003-01-25_0202__SYNC.BCK;1 (101640 blocks)lP DISK$BUDISK:[SYADMIN]EAST__JRNL__CCC__2003-01-26_0201__SYNC.BCK;1 (51183 blocks)Q DISK$BUDISK:[SYADMIN]EAST__JRNL__DDD__2003-01-25_0201__SYNC.BCK;1 (203280 blocks)tP DISK$BUDISK:[SYADMIN]EAST__JRNL__DDD__2003-01-26_0201__SYNC.BCK;1 (51183 blocks)Q DISK$BUDISK:[SYADMIN]EAST__JRNL__EEE__2003-01-25_0202__SYNC.BCK;1 (101640 blocks)nP DISK$BUDISK:[SYADMIN]EAST__JRNL__EEE__2003-01-26_0201__SYNC.BCK;1 (51183 blocks)Q DISK$BUDISK:[SYADMIN]EAST__JRNL__FFF__2003-01-25_0202__SYNC.BCK;1 (152460 blocks)oP DISK$BUDISK:[SYADMIN]EAST__JRNL__FFF__2003-01-26_0201__SYNC.BCK;1 (51183 blocks)Q DISK$BUDISK:[SYADMIN]EAST__JRNL__MST__2003-01-25_0201__SYNC.BCK;1 (203280 blocks)uP DISK$BUDISK:[SYADMIN]EAST__JRNL__MST__2003-01-26_0201__SYNC.BCK;1 (51183 blocks)Q DISK$BUDISK:[SYADMIN]EAST__JRNL__ZTM__2003-01-25_0203__SYNC.BCK;1 (101640 blocks)uP DISK$BUDISK:[SYADMIN]EAST__JRNL__ZTM__2003-01-26_0201__SYNC.BCK;1 (51183 blocks)P DISK$BUDISK:[SYADMIN]EAST__VOLINC__AAA__2003-01-24_2218-1.BCK;1 (4064874 blocks)L DISK$BUDISK:[SYADMIN]EAST__VOLINC__AAA__2003-01-24_2218-2.BCK;1 (726 blocks)P DISK$BUDISK:[SYADMIN]EAST__VOLINC__BBB__2003-01-24_2205-1.BCK;1 (3251754 blocks)L DISK$BUDISK:[SYADMIN]EAST__VOLINC__BBB__2003-01-24_2205-2.BCK;1 (363 blocks)P DISK$BUDISK:[SYADMIN]EAST__VOLINC__CCC__2003-01-24_2223-1.BCK;1 (4064874 blocks)L DISK$BUDISK:[SYADMIN]EAST__VOLINC__CCC__2003-01-24_2223-2.BCK;1 (363 blocks)P DISK$BUDISK:[SYADMIN]EAST__VOLINC__DDD__2003-01-24_2209-1.BCK;1 (4064874 blocks)L DISK$BUDISK:[SYADMIN]EAST__VOLINC__DDD__2003-01-24_2209-2.BCK;1 (363 blocks)P DISK$BUDISK:[SYADMIN]EAST__VOLINC__EEE__2003-01-24_2214-1.BCK;1 (3251754 blocks)L DISK$BUDISK:[SYADMIN]EAST__VOLINC__EEE__2003-01-24_2214-2.BCK;1 (363 blocks)O DISK$BUDISK:[SYADMIN]EAST__VOLINC__FFF__2003-01-24_2228-1.BCK;1 (813120 blocks)PL DISK$BUDISK:[SYADMIN]EAST__VOLINC__FFF__2003-01-24_2228-2.BCK;1 (363 blocks)O DISK$BUDISK:[SYADMIN]EAST__VOLINC__LGA__2003-01-24_2217-1.BCK;1 (406560 blocks)tL DISK$BUDISK:[SYADMIN]EAST__VOLINC__LGA__2003-01-24_2217-2.BCK;1 (363 blocks)P DISK$BUDISK:[SYADMIN]EAST__VOLINC__MST__2003-01-24_2201-1.BCK;1 (3251754 blocks)L DISK$BUDISK:[SYADMIN]EAST__VOLINC__MST__2003-01-24_2201-2.BCK;1 (363 blocks)O DISK$BUDISK:[SYADMIN]EAST__VOLINC__ZTM__2003-01-24_2229-1.BCK;1 (406560 blocks)CL DISK$BUDISK:[SYADMIN]EAST__VOLINC__ZTM__2003-01-24_2229-2.BCK;1 (363 blocks)  " Total of 38 files, 37402132 blocks NBU> restore/client=EASTAB2.mydomain.com/id=eastab2.mydomain.com_1043629331 EAST__VOLINC__ZTM__2003-01-24_2229-2.BCK /to=sys$sysdevice:[000000]t.bck9 %NBU-I-RESTBID, _1043629331 26-JAN-2003 20:02:11 restore pA   /DISK$BUDISK/SYADMIN/EAST__VOLINC__ZTM__2003-01-24_2229-2.BCK;1o) %NBU-E-SERVMSG, (227) no entity was foundc   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 16:07:00 GMT 9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>y' Subject: Re: X-windows UID decompiler ?e2 Message-ID: <E60Ia.2866$QC1.2664@news.cpqcorp.net>  L Not that I know of, but since UID files are standard (it isn't machine or os7 dependent) if you can find one for UNIX it should work.>    7 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in messaget# news:3EEA4396.5AAB4B92@istop.com...fH > Is there some utility to generale UIL source files from a UID module ? >eJ > VMS has a UIL compiler that takes UIL files and generates UID files. I'd like > to do the reverse.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 11:07:37 -0400(- From: Jonathan Boswell <jsb@ost.cdrh.fda.gov>a9 Subject: Re: ZKO email problems re: CXML on OpenVMS Alphaa0 Message-ID: <3EF08039.2C5B407F@ost.cdrh.fda.gov>   Steve Lionel wrote:n > Try cxml  -at- compaq.com   K Steve, you're working too hard!  I already tried that as stated in my first  message:  > >>The email link in the OpenVMS block of the download page for> >>comments and questions is a mailto: link to cxml@compaq.com.C >>This *also* bounces with "user unknown" from mathsup@zko.dec.com.s  O BTW - why obscure this email address which is clearly visible as a mailto: linkm from numerous web pages?  4 >See also the Support link at http://compaq.com/math  M This page gets redirected to: http://h18000.www1.hp.com/math/ and the support-P link goes to: http://h18000.www1.hp.com/math/support/index.html.  I again filledP out the (apparently identical) form I submitted yesterday, and submitted it withP my problem/question this morning, June 18, 2003.  It bounced as yesterday with aG "user unknown" error from mathsup@zko.dec.com.  I'm not making this up!-   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 11:34:17 -0400s+ From: Steve Lionel <Steve.Lionel@intel.com>j9 Subject: Re: ZKO email problems re: CXML on OpenVMS AlphaX8 Message-ID: <l611fv8s6mh5hifolhhia17lvv268nr6s4@4ax.com>  K On Wed, 18 Jun 2003 11:07:37 -0400, Jonathan Boswell <jsb@ost.cdrh.fda.gov>n wrote:   >Steve Lionel wrote: >> Try cxml  -at- compaq.com >rL >Steve, you're working too hard!  I already tried that as stated in my first	 >message:u   Sorry, missed that.u  ? >>>The email link in the OpenVMS block of the download page fora? >>>comments and questions is a mailto: link to cxml@compaq.com.eD >>>This *also* bounces with "user unknown" from mathsup@zko.dec.com. >gP >BTW - why obscure this email address which is clearly visible as a mailto: link >from numerous web pages?-  9 Because I didn't want to expose it in newsgroups as well.   5 >>See also the Support link at http://compaq.com/mathR >SN >This page gets redirected to: http://h18000.www1.hp.com/math/ and the supportQ >link goes to: http://h18000.www1.hp.com/math/support/index.html.  I again filled Q >out the (apparently identical) form I submitted yesterday, and submitted it withsQ >my problem/question this morning, June 18, 2003.  It bounced as yesterday with aeH >"user unknown" error from mathsup@zko.dec.com.  I'm not making this up!  M I contacted the people who maintain the web pages and asked that they correct-K the mail redirection.  However, I'll comment that all (I think) of the CXMLrJ developers now work for Intel. If you need formal product support, you canL still get it (HP contracts with Intel for help with such issues), but you'reH probably not going to get informal help.  I don't think the mailing listM exists anymore, but I'm unsure. I asked the web maintainers to check on that.r     Steve Lionel Software Products Division Intel Corporation:
 Nashua, NH  = User communities for Intel Fortran and Compaq Visual Fortran:D%   http://intel.com/IDS/forums/fortran>   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:40:02 +0100.* From: Andrew Robinson <arobinson@hspg.com>( Subject: [AOT]:Shameless sale items plugO Message-ID: <CDA4BAD1E10ED41181AC00508B6051D3023CD023@grumpy.internal.hspg.com>s  K I put a few items on ebay - 2 FDDI cards (DEFPA-AC) & a DE500 Network card.  (sorry if url wraps)    L http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2735905644&category=161 45&rd=1p  L http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2735906152&category=161 45&rd=1C  L http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=16145&item=27359068 41  H I did it to see if theres any real interest in this sort of stuff, or ifI dustybin is a better bet. I also have a qlogic SCSI controller, 1998/1999 J VAX Software Product Libarys (VMS 7.1 & 7.2) & lots of other related bits.K If these are of any interest please indicate & I will stick them on ebay orn4 sell privately. Or you can just tell me to go forth.  ! After a little (polite) guidance s   Andrew Robinsona   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jun 2003 05:53:48 -0700- From: soccer13player@yahoo.com (Nom de Plume) , Subject: Re: [AOT]:Shameless sale items plug= Message-ID: <f401eb7f.0306180453.65c2e0c9@posting.google.com>A  N > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2735905644&category=161	 > 45&rd=1t > N > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2735906152&category=161	 > 45&rd=1  > N > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=16145&item=27359068 > 41  F I have been watching these on the US site.  It seems that there is notF much interest.  Anything over $10 including shipping and handling gets little interest.   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jun 2003 01:36:55 -0700 From: sam@ratex.dk (Sam)I Subject: Re: [ENABLE AUTOSTART] How to determine the state of AUTOSTART ? < Message-ID: <d1111de.0306180036.4da3d129@posting.google.com>   Try the following:   $ help lexical f$getqui examplea   and look at example number 4.a maybe it is what you need.   Kind regards Samt    s peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) wrote in message news:<d4uHa.250531$lL2.2584498@news.chello.at>...p > You probably knowt >  > 	$ ENABLE AUTOSTARTi) > 	$ ENABLE AUTOSTART/NAME_OF_MANAGER=...o! > 	$ ENABLE AUTOSTART/ON_NODE=...  > H > but what about showing the current state of what queue manager on what- > node is already enabled or still disabled ?. > # > Is there a SHOW (QUEUE) command ?-8 > Is there a lexical function (item code for F$GETQUI) ?L > Am I blind^Wtired or is there something still missing in VMS and/or docu ? > 
 > Many TIA   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:41:49 GMTk0 From: HARANGOZO CSABA   <spameater@spam.invalid> Subject: [OT]    Humour 6 Message-ID: <xtWHa.6640$eE.57480@nasal.pacific.net.au>  , 	 Source: http://www.msa.ualberta.ca/med2006    Actual Medical Chart Notes :,  D     1. Patient has two teenage children, but no other abnormalities.  E     2. Patient has chest pain if she lies on her left side for over a         year.  H     3. On the second day, the knee was better, and then on the third day        it disappeared.  H     4. The patient is tearful and crying constantly. She also appears to        be depressed.  H     5. The patient has been depressed since she began seeing me in 1993.  :     6. Discharge status: Alive, but without my permission.  F     7. Healthy-appearing decrepit 69-year old male, mentally alert but        forgetful.e  #     8. The patient refused autopsy.o  7     9. The patient has no previous history of suicides.   >    10. Patient has left white blood cells at another hospital.  G    11. Patient's medical history has been remarkably insignificant withD:        only a 40-pound weight gain in the last three days.  @    12. Patient had waffles for breakfast and anorexia for lunch.  I    13. Between you and me, we ought to be able to get this lady pregnant.t  &    14. She is numb from her toes down.  <    15. While in ER, she was examined, x-rated and sent home.  "    16. The skin was moist and dry.  2    17. Occasional, constant, infrequent headaches.  *    18. Patient was alert and unresponsive.  D    19. She stated that she had been constipated for most of her life        until she got a divorce.0  9    20. Rectal examination revealed a normal-size thyroid.M  H    21. I saw your patient today, who is still under our car for physical        therapy..  F    22. Both breasts are equal and reactive to light and accommodation.  @    23. Examination of genitalia reveals that he is circus-sized.  6    24. The lab test indicated abnormal lover function.  H    25. The patient was to have a bowel resection. However, he took a job         as a stockbroker instead.  '    26. Skin: somewhat pale but present.h  7    27. The pelvic exam will be done later on the floor.u  G    28. Patient was seen in consultation by Dr. ____, who felt we should:&        sit on the abdomen and I agree.  0    29. Large brown stool ambulating in the hall.  F    30. She has no rigors or shaking chills, but her husband states she!        was hot in bed last night.a  5    31. Patient was found in bed with her power mower.O   		:-)					Cheers,  Csaba  J  -------------------------------------------------------------------------H   CSABA I. HARANGOZO  |d|i|g|i|t|a|l|  csabah(at)zipworld(dot)com(dot)auJ  -------------------------------------------------------------------------;    EARTH::AUSTRALIA:[SYDNEY]HARANGOZO.CSABA;1, delete? [N]:e  1  Friends may come and go, but enemies accumulate.    ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jun 2003 11:39:04 -05004 From: kuhrt@nospammy.encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt)L Subject: Re: [OT] Future of Sun in doubt ?, was: Re: Sun to be the next DEC!3 Message-ID: <$JWNkqA5BdsL@eisner.encompasserve.org>?  q In article <6NMfQbU4ZONG@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:>z > In article <qJEUXtdxr6Vf@eisner.encompasserve.org>, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) writes:Q >> I have seen a large number of comments from various sources over the last yearrM >> or so suggesting that Sun may have viability issues in the future and thatt- >> they are been seriously impacted by Linux.t >> nL >> For those of you with Solaris in your IT strategy are you considering newH >> systems based on Solaris, or are you looking at a Linux replacement ? > F >    Lets see, Gartner a few months ago pronounced Solaris and AIX theE > only viable UNIX.  Considering Gartner's record I think all our SungH > worshippers have reason to look around.  At IBM I suspect they'll just > continue to migrate to Linux.i   Just to toss out an idea...n  = Has anyone done an exacting long term Gartner report card andB commented on it?    @ Something like... "Over the last ten years Gartner has made 3000< predictions, of which 2900 have been WRONG.  Why would _YOU_# trust anything Gartner has to say?"i   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jun 2003 07:22:20 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) C Subject: Re: [OT] SCO tells IBM no more AIX ... IBM better buy VMS!03 Message-ID: <AoyOganrIdxS@eisner.encompasserve.org>c  o In article <4NNHa.129893$3Sm.34408@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:f > C > And SCO will be spending every cent of that on legal fees if theyc2 > think they have even a remote chance of winning.  >   Hardly an issue with Billy backing them financially on this.   ------------------------------   Date: 18 Jun 2003 12:33:18 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)C Subject: Re: [OT] SCO tells IBM no more AIX ... IBM better buy VMS!l5 Message-ID: <bcpm6e$lo5i5$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>a  9 In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIOEMJHGAA.tom@kednos.com>, & 	"Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:H > Anybody want to buy my ATT source license dated 1982?  Maybe I should  > put it on ebay.S >   D Unless yours is very different from mine, they are non-transferable.   bill   -- oJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   i   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.336 ************************