1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 21 Jun 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 342       Contents:) Announcing WRUG LUG meeting; July 8, 2003  Re: Any ISP on VMS? % Re: Backup Software for VMS and Linux 5 CSWS PHP v0101: MMS gives abort status when compiling 9 Re: CSWS PHP v0101: MMS gives abort status when compiling ( Re: Decwindows: Fileview DCL window font( Re: Decwindows: Fileview DCL window font( Re: Decwindows: Fileview DCL window font( Re: Decwindows: Fileview DCL window font( Re: Decwindows: Fileview DCL window font, Re: Do's and don'ts about cleaning keyboards& Does TCPIP_ECO V5.3-182 break SSH EAK? Re: HP to drop hpux? Re: HP to drop hpux? Re: HP to drop hpux? Re: HP to drop hpux? Re: HP to drop hpux? Re: HP to drop hpux? Re: Memo:  Rant  Re: Mozilla on old hardware  Re: Mozilla on old hardware  Re: New AlphaServer DS15 ??? Re: New AlphaServer DS15 ??? Re: New AlphaServer DS15 ??? Re: New AlphaServer DS15 ???  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 11:57:52 -0400 / From: "Joe H. Gallagher" <dtrwiz@ix.netcom.com> 2 Subject: Announcing WRUG LUG meeting; July 8, 2003- Message-ID: <3EF4807A.90CC7993@ix.netcom.com>    . -                   Announcing July 8th Meeting -                   Western Reserve Users Group .                  Local User Group of Encompass                   4             (New regular time and new regular place)3              (Please RSVP so we can get a count of  1               needed chairs and slices of pizza.)    Special Topic: Ask HP   >   While attendees are gathering for the meeting, Rich Pearlman7   will lead a short discussion about some of the recent @   organizational changes at HP.  He will also facilitate a short6   Q and A on any topics the attendees wish to discuss.  * Topic:  Replacing VAXen with VAX Emulation  ?   This presentation discusses replacing a VAX system with a VAX ?   emulator, and includes the steps from initial decision-making /   through final migration.  Items included are:      - How emulation works !   - What emulators are available?    - Open source or commercial?!   - Evaluating the current system    - Cost vs. benefit evaluation    - Setting up network access     - Access to Q-bus peripherals?#   - Choosing the emulation platform !   - Sizing the emulation platform    - Setting up network access ;   - Migration choices: serial, tape, network, cluster, etc.    - Migration of data    - Migration of system disk   - Licensing of system #   - Verification of migrated system   2 Speaker: Stanley F. Quayle, Quayle Consulting Inc.  @   Stanley Quayle is an HP Certified OpenVMS System Engineer with;   23 years of OpenVMS experience.  He has over two years of @   experience in migrating VAX systems to VAX emulation.  He also?   conducts two-day courses which teach customers how to perform '   their own migration. More details at  +        http://www.stanq.com/charon-vax.html   $ Topic:  Taming the OpenView Umbrella  :   Most people think of OpenView as a network management or?   console management tool.  OpenView is a portfolio of products 8   to help customer manage their entire enterprise.  This>   presentation gets under the hood and discusses what the coreA   products are and their benefits to IT from a technical point of    view.   & Speaker: Joseph Hasenohr, HP Cleveland  ;   Joe is an OpenView Solution Architect based in Cleveland, B   Ohio.  He has spent the past seven years helping HP customers to8   manage their IT enterprise with HP OpenView.  Prior to=   OpenView, Joe spent over 15 years at HP assisting customers <   with HP open-systems products, both hardware and software.                   Date:     Tuesday, July 8, 2003   Time:     4:00 to 7:00 PM 
 Location: %    in the building with the HP office     Park Center Plaza III    Lower Level conference room    6050 Oak Tree Blvd.    Independence, OH 44131 ;    (Call Rich's cell phone at 412-999-6427 if you get lost)  Map:      http://maps.yahoo.com/py/maps.py?Pyt=Tmap&ed=fHlg.Op_0Tp8cAk9FEnXFaJqwLrgHNEVHj2ZCgpRheC5zhYBRpY17CQ9e.8MEG4Q_RbNxpVrgvTpiJ6tD1A.32U6&csz=Independence,+OH+44131-6927&country=us&cs=9&name=&desc=&poititle=&poi=&uz=44131&ds=n&BFKey=&BFCat=&BFClient=&mag=9&ne         Directions: C    From the area of the interchange of I-480 and I-77, go south and !    take the Rockside Road exit.    >    At the bottom of the ramp, turn right (west) on Rockside.   L    Go west two blocks (second light); turn left (south) on Oak Tree Blvd.     See the LUG's web page at   &     http://eisner.decus.org/lugs/wrug/     4 The next LUG meeting is scheduled for September 9th.      See you at the meeting.    Joe H. Gallagher WRUG LUG Chair0 dtrwiz at ix dot netcom dot com                   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Jun 2003 05:37:46 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: Re: Any ISP on VMS?3 Message-ID: <q0xzYOLbQfob@eisner.encompasserve.org>   [ In article <3EF3CEE2.4E2943F6@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:   - >> If he's still in that business, Mark Levy.  > D > Mark sold FSInet to DLS some time back after an unfortunate event.  L Said event being no fault of Mark's and having nothing to do with computers.   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Jun 2003 23:55:49 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) . Subject: Re: Backup Software for VMS and Linux3 Message-ID: <IGo+Ypin56U+@eisner.encompasserve.org>   [ In article <3EF3CA6F.13A07D6F@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:  > Rob Young wrote:	 >> [snip] C >>         There is something inconsistent here.  Sounds to me like G >>         you have very expensive backup hardware and yet not a backup ! >>         solution for everyone.  >  > Bingo! > D >>         Do you actually have to get it to work with no additionalC >>         resources allocated?  If so, why or how did that happen?  > ^ >> In article <3EF26F9E.1DF9BD43@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes: >> > [snip] Out here in , >> > the real world, however, ... We have to: >> > live with what we have ... thrust upon us by clueless >> > management. > G > Remember: we're already into the generations of upper management that F > have never known anything but PCs and Micro$hit. They don't rememberC > 80-columns cards, paper tape, disk packs, multi-port async. muxes G > (DHV-11, DMF-32, etc.), 10GB storage arrays the size of a school bus,  > ...  >  >>  @ >> >>         Speaking of difficult, how does that DR drill workQ >> >>         when instead of TSM (or equivalent Enterprise Backup solution), you P >> >>         have to have multiple different backup solutions at SunGuard to do >> >>         the DR drill?  >> > >> > Depends on your contract. >> >L >> > In my experience, I can restore my system, start it up, run validation,M >> > tear it down and wipe the disks - all before the UN*X-ers even get their D >> > restore server started so they can attempt their test/recovery. >> > >>  L >>         Yes, others have mentioned that and I believe it.  But what I wasK >>         getting at, short of an integrated single vendor solution, it is K >>         very difficult to coordinate multiple groups restoring disparate H >>         servers with a number of differing backup products/solutions. > D > See, my experience is the reverse. The time/expense of integratingJ > multiple, incompatible platforms into a common backup format tends to beF > highly prohibitive. Of course, no one understands that until they'veF > already flushed a couple of million dollars down the drain and still! > don't have a workable solution.  >  >   > 	Your experience is the reverse and you probably aren't alone.: 	But that is why my friends are making a living travelling: 	around doing TSM and Veritas installs.  Look to companies> 	much larger than yours that have Enterprise Backup solutions,9 	it can and is being done successfully.  It isn't easy to 9 	get going without prior experience.  Likewise, there are / 	SAP consultants, Oracle consultants, etc. etc.   B 	Yeah.  I also know of a project that flat out died.  I read aboutH 	others in Computer magazines or Webzines.  Mostly a planning/management9 	thing in hindsight.   Not budgeting for resources - i.e. ? 	not budgeting for consulting is a BIG gotcha.  The other MAJOR = 	gotcha is being enamored with a presentation and not running 8 	through a grueling RFP process.  Not a rigid RFP allows; 	someone too far up the food chain buy something and say:   @ 	"here, get this working!"  That in itself is management issues.A 	These problems don't spring up like dandelions - out of nowhere. A 	They can be traced back and eventually dealt with - the waste of 2 	money will eventually cause a shakeout somewhere.   				Rob    ------------------------------    Date: 21 Jun 2003 01:11:19 -0500/ From: guthrey@encompasserve.org (Chris Guthrey) > Subject: CSWS PHP v0101: MMS gives abort status when compiling3 Message-ID: <kBfBsZImVSCc@eisner.encompasserve.org>   O I'm trying to compile the PHP V0101 sources on Alpha VMS 7.3-1 with both TCP/IP E and Multinet installed, but with Multinet active. Here is my session:    $ set def php_root:[build] $ MMS/descrip=build.mms     , ! PHP_ROOT:[BUILD]PHP_EDIT.DAT is up to date    7 ! Built PHP_ROOT:[BUILD.OBJ]PHPSHRP.EXE for OpenVMS PHP   2 %LINK-W-MULDEF, symbol DECC$UTIME multiply definedK         in module DECC$SHR_EV56 file SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]DECC$SHR_EV56.EXE;1 6 %LINK-W-MULDEF, symbol DECC$INET_ATON multiply definedK         in module DECC$SHR_EV56 file SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]DECC$SHR_EV56.EXE;1 K %MMS-F-ABORT, For target PHP_ROOT:[BUILD.OBJ]PHPSHR.EXE, CLI returned abort  status: %X10648268.   L Although I am aware that CSWS is not officially supported with Multinet, theK binary distributions seem to work fine.  I want to see if I can compile the M myssql extension for PHP but I'd like to understand the above PHP build error  first!  # Any assistance gratefully received!    Cheers, Chris Guthrey.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 12:37:45 +0200 E From: "Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann" <vaxinf@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de> B Subject: Re: CSWS PHP v0101: MMS gives abort status when compiling0 Message-ID: <000d01c337e1$27697da0$0401a8c0@pc1>  ! try mms/decrip=build.mms/ign=warn    eberhard ----- Original Message -----1 From: "Chris Guthrey" <guthrey@encompasserve.org>  To: <Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com> % Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2003 8:11 AM > Subject: CSWS PHP v0101: MMS gives abort status when compiling    J > I'm trying to compile the PHP V0101 sources on Alpha VMS 7.3-1 with both TCP/IPG > and Multinet installed, but with Multinet active. Here is my session:  >  > $ set def php_root:[build] > $ MMS/descrip=build.mms  >  > . > ! PHP_ROOT:[BUILD]PHP_EDIT.DAT is up to date >  > 9 > ! Built PHP_ROOT:[BUILD.OBJ]PHPSHRP.EXE for OpenVMS PHP  > 4 > %LINK-W-MULDEF, symbol DECC$UTIME multiply defined& >         in module DECC$SHR_EV56 file& SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]DECC$SHR_EV56.EXE;18 > %LINK-W-MULDEF, symbol DECC$INET_ATON multiply defined& >         in module DECC$SHR_EV56 file& SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]DECC$SHR_EV56.EXE;1G > %MMS-F-ABORT, For target PHP_ROOT:[BUILD.OBJ]PHPSHR.EXE, CLI returned  abort  > status: %X10648268.  > J > Although I am aware that CSWS is not officially supported with Multinet, the I > binary distributions seem to work fine.  I want to see if I can compile  the I > myssql extension for PHP but I'd like to understand the above PHP build  error  > first! > % > Any assistance gratefully received!  >  > Cheers, Chris Guthrey.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 10:11:56 +0200 & From: Bob Marcan <bob.marcan@aster.si>1 Subject: Re: Decwindows: Fileview DCL window font / Message-ID: <4rUIa.1719$78.55317@news.siol.net>    JF Mezei wrote: O > Goal: to select a smaller font for the dcl windows opened by fileview (VAX).   > P > The fileview DCL window come up with some large italic font. (as does the sameP > type of window that displays character cell output from x applications). AfterM > using the SEARCH command for an oblique font specification ( -O-Normal ), I N > have found nothing conclusive in either the decw$ executables, or the system > defaults directory.  > N > I have also no idea what image runs the session manager on VAX. :-( ;-( :-(  > O > Normally, an application would have textual resource files ( *.dat) where one P > can easily tailor the application's look and feel. But in this case, I am at aO > loss to find out which resource file is being used. I do know that there is a P > VUE$PROFILE.VUE$DAT which is an indexed file that contains the menu items, but > no oblique font definitions. > J > With DECterm, one can specify the exact fonts that are desired. But withO > fileview DCL windows, where the <censored> can on define the desired font for  > the window ????????    image DECW$SESSION  4 Have the same problem and like to know how to solve.5 All this xwindows stuff is so poor documented on VMS.    Regards, Bob --  A   Bob Marcan                             mailto:bob.marcan@snt.si A   Aster^H^H...HermesPlus^H^H^H...S&T   mailto:bob.marcan@aster.si A   Nade Ovcakove 1                       tel:    +386 (1) 5894-329 A   1000 Ljubljana, Slovenia                      http://www.snt.si    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 11:31:18 +0200 + From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl> 1 Subject: Re: Decwindows: Fileview DCL window font 5 Message-ID: <bd18la$od7so$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>   9 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> schreef in bericht # news:3EF36680.D19FEA2B@istop.com... G > Goal: to select a smaller font for the dcl windows opened by fileview  (VAX). > K > The fileview DCL window come up with some large italic font. (as does the  sameJ > type of window that displays character cell output from x applications). After K > using the SEARCH command for an oblique font specification ( -O-Normal ),  I G > have found nothing conclusive in either the decw$ executables, or the  system > defaults directory.  > I > I have also no idea what image runs the session manager on VAX. :-( ;-(  :-(  > K > Normally, an application would have textual resource files ( *.dat) where  one K > can easily tailor the application's look and feel. But in this case, I am  at aJ > loss to find out which resource file is being used. I do know that there is aL > VUE$PROFILE.VUE$DAT which is an indexed file that contains the menu items, but  > no oblique font definitions. > A > With DECterm, one can specify the exact fonts that are desired.   L How? Where is that documented? I get font errors with DECterm and would like to fix that.  
 > But withK > fileview DCL windows, where the <censored> can on define the desired font  for  > the window ????????    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 07:54:02 -0500 $ From: Lyle West <arf@ourtownusa.org>1 Subject: Re: Decwindows: Fileview DCL window font . Message-ID: <3EF40F1A.668A0BA1@ourtownusa.org>   Bob Marcan wrote:  >  > JF Mezei wrote: P > > Goal: to select a smaller font for the dcl windows opened by fileview (VAX). > >  (snip) > 6 > Have the same problem and like to know how to solve.7 > All this xwindows stuff is so poor documented on VMS.  >  > Regards, Bob > --E Following is from cov article from Hoff years ago, which I can't find  right 5 now, I put it at DECW$USER_DEFAULTS:VUE$MASTER.DAT...    VUE$MASTER*displayWidthInc: 8  VUE$MASTER*displayWidth: 820 VUE$MASTER*fontSetSelection: 1 VUE$MASTER*condensedFont: on VUE$MASTER*littleFontSetName: < -dec-terminal-medium-r-normal--14-100-100-100-c-80-iso8859-1   Note the last line wrapped.    --     Lyle W. West  H to reply: Try ell with three dubya's and at with mninter arf net and use dot rather than arf  __   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 11:14:41 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>1 Subject: Re: Decwindows: Fileview DCL window font ) Message-ID: <3EF47660.EEB69823@istop.com>    Hans Vlems wrote: C > > With DECterm, one can specify the exact fonts that are desired.  > N > How? Where is that documented? I get font errors with DECterm and would like > to fix that.  K In the options -> window menu, you can specify the x-style font to be used. N However, you start to have problems when you want to display stuff such as theH line drawing or technical character sets since DECterm seems to expect aN certain nomemclature for a different font. So if you specify some variation ofI courier, then you shoudl have available some variation of courier such as  DEC-DECtech etc.  I TECH14.bdf   -DEC-Terminal-Medium-R-Normal--14-140-75-75-C-80-DEC-DECtech H TECHB14.bdf   -DEC-Terminal-Bold-R-Normal--14-140-75-75-C-80-DEC-DECtechG TERM14.bdf   -DEC-Terminal-Medium-R-Normal--14-140-75-75-C-80-ISO8859-1 F TERMB14.bdf   -DEC-Terminal-Bold-R-Normal--14-140-75-75-C-80-ISO8859-1   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 11:17:20 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>1 Subject: Re: Decwindows: Fileview DCL window font ) Message-ID: <3EF476FE.97BC9F05@istop.com>    Lyle West wrote:7 > now, I put it at DECW$USER_DEFAULTS:VUE$MASTER.DAT...  >  > VUE$MASTER*displayWidthInc: 8  > VUE$MASTER*displayWidth: 820  > VUE$MASTER*fontSetSelection: 1 > VUE$MASTER*condensedFont: on > VUE$MASTER*littleFontSetName: > > -dec-terminal-medium-r-normal--14-100-100-100-c-80-iso8859-1    many many thanks will try this !   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Jun 03 08:45:45 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) 5 Subject: Re: Do's and don'ts about cleaning keyboards ) Message-ID: <TzbSnLBHWKRg@elias.decus.ch>   W In article <17JUN200321024679@gerg.tamu.edu>, carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) writes: t > In article <2RFHa.2737$lv.2468@news.cpqcorp.net>, "John E. Malmberg" <Malmberg@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq.hp> writes... > }David Michaels wrote: > }> Paul Sture wrote: > }>  L > }>>My heartful thanks to the person who recommended putting my LK keyboard > }>>through the dishwasher. > }>>   > }>>It is beatifully clean now. > }>> + > }>>But a pity it doesn't work any more...  > }>> % > }> WD-40 = water displacement - 40   > }>  L > }> I've never seen it harm electronics. Not to say it can't, but I haven't
 > }> seen it.  > } F > }Any high pressure stream of gas or other small propellent, if fast H > }enough can build up a static charge and can destroy some electronics. > } I > }I know from personal experience spray paint has enough pressure to do  I > }that.  I was attempting to waterproof a circuit, coincidentally for a  I > }keyboard, back in the days when people were building Z80 based systems  > }from parts. > }  > } L > }The fumes from WD-40 are quite combustable for at least a minute or two, 5 > }so any sparks near them can cause a fire to start.  > } J > }The small spark from the ON/OFF switch of most electrical devices that 2 > }do not have specially rated switches is enough. > }  > }-John > A > Your keyboard gets dirty, so you run it through the dishwasher. A > It then doesn't work so you use WD-40 on it to dry it out. When ? > you plug it in it bursts into flames. This then triggers your ( > machine room's fire suppresion system. >  > Now that's comedy. >   @ And just to follow on, your fire suppression system is Halon, soF once it has dumped that, you are legally not allowed to replace it, so have to buy a new system.      --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Jun 03 18:14:27 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) / Subject: Does TCPIP_ECO V5.3-182 break SSH EAK? ) Message-ID: <8W56T+cr6SzM@elias.decus.ch>    Has anyone seen this?   C I applied TCPIP_ECO V5.3-182 and rebooted, as per the instructions.   G SSH was no longer recognized as a legitmate command. I reinstalled SSH, F but it still didn't recognize the SSH command (OK, maybe I should have logged in again at that point).   : I then went into TCPIP$CONFIG and had to enable SSH again.F Still no joy until another reboot, when the SSH command was once again
 recognizable.    --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 00:37:22 -0400 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Re: HP to drop hpux? 2 Message-ID: <ILycnRq_Ab6UfG6jXTWJkQ@metrocast.net>  3 "Greg Cagle" <gregc@gregcagle.com> wrote in message ) news:vf7hkrs2katjcb@corp.supernews.com...  > Bill Todd wrote: > L > > Just what do you suppose that the people in Spitbrook developing VMS andH > > Tru64, and the Alpha engineers themselves, would have told you about Alpha's K > > future prior to June 25, 2001?  (That's a rhetorical question:  you can J > > *see* what they would have told you simply by digging up a copy of theH > > Heil/Lipcon letter guaranteeing, in detail, Alpha's long-term future thatK > > was posted on Alpha's Web pages until a month after the Alphacide.)  Or I > > about Tru64's future prior to the merger-related decision to drop it?  Being @ > > an insider is no guarantee whatsoever of knowing the future. > > K > > The people making the *real* decisions about HP-UX's future are many of  the I > > same ones who were involved, at Compaq and/or at HP, in the decisions  about H > > Alpha and then Tru64.  They have a track record in such matters that6 > > arguably counts for more than your own beliefs do. > J > Whatever. Why don't we check in in five years and see who was right 8^).  F People 'betting their businesses' on HP-UX (or VMS), just as they wereK encouraged to bet them on Alpha, don't have that luxury:  they have to make ? plans on the basis of the best information they have right now.   J If they were worried about a bug or some other technical issue with HP-UX,I knowing the people you know in HP-UX development would be useful to them. I But for making longer-term plans, trust in the *vendor* is also required, G regardless of the quality and motivation of the development group - and J neither recent HP leadership nor its acquired leadership from Compaq seems" very worthy of that kind of trust.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 01:02:58 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> Subject: Re: HP to drop hpux? ) Message-ID: <3EF3E6D5.BF21058E@istop.com>    Bill Todd wrote:H > People 'betting their businesses' on HP-UX (or VMS), just as they wereM > encouraged to bet them on Alpha, don't have that luxury:  they have to make A > plans on the basis of the best information they have right now.     J It is worse now. Before June 25 2001 (and the ensuing merger), only tandemF folks were worried about a platform change (to alpha). But now, all HPN customers, except the wintel crowd) are faced with platform chance. And if youI are a vax customer, the prospects of impending end of life for VMS on VAX 5 since less and less is being upodated to match alpha.   I HP-UX is faced with a migration to the uncertain IA64 thing combined with 4 possibly big changed when Tru64 bits are integrated.  K VMS is faced with a migration to the uncertain IA64 thing, combined with HP  ignoring VMS  : NSK is faced with a migration to the uncertain IA64 thing.  H Tru64 and MPE are faced with a migration to another vendor, or if bribedE sufficiently by HP, to HP-UX which itself is faced with 2 migrations.     J With all these migrations happening at the same time, combined with peopleN being told not to judge IA64 yet because it will be great in the future, folksL are starting to look at what they should do. They know they must change, but& the HP solutions aren't available yet.  N And worse yet, when you look at HP ignoring VMS, would you be comfortable withM committing to VMS when its vendors doesn't want to even mention its name (let   alone include it in marketing ?)  K And when you look at the precedents set by the Alpha murder, killing of MPE F and Tru64,  then you cannot believe the so called "commitments" to the remaining HP products.  L As an example of how people got screwed, consider the Qubec government thatN had committed to a huge contract with Compaq to ditch their IBM mainframes andJ convert to Tru64 on Alpha --- just a couple of months before Compaq turned= around and killed Alpha and a few months later, killed Tru64.   7 How canb you trust such a vendor's "commitments" ??????    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 16:54:39 +1000 1 From: Paddy O'Brien <paddy.o'brien@tg.nsw.gov.au>  Subject: Re: HP to drop hpux? , Message-ID: <3EF4012F.5020308@tg.nsw.gov.au>   JF Mezei wrote:  [snips]   L > So pardon me if I am very weary of certain statements. "We have no plan to  D I like the possible meanings here.  With the abundance of typos and F misspellings on newsgroups (or anywhere these days), both "weary" and F "wary" fit the bill adequately in your sentence :-)  So which did you  really mean? :-)   Regards, Paddy        G ***********************************************************************   C "This electronic message and any attachments may contain privileged > and confidential information intended only for the use of the B addressees named above.  If you are not the intended recipient of C this email, please delete the message and any attachment and advise B the sender.  You are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, 7 distribution, reproduction of this email is prohibited.   A If you have received the email in error, please notify TransGrid  A immediately.  Any views expressed in this email are those of the  = individual sender except where the sender expressly and with  C authority states them to be the views of TransGrid.  TransGrid uses > virus scanning software but excludes any liability for viruses contained in any attachment.  < Please note the email address for TransGrid personnel is now$ firstname.lastname@transgrid.com.au"  G ***********************************************************************    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 17:14:17 +1000 1 From: Paddy O'Brien <paddy.o'brien@tg.nsw.gov.au>  Subject: Re: HP to drop hpux? , Message-ID: <3EF405C9.9080500@tg.nsw.gov.au>   Bill Todd wrote:5 > "Greg Cagle" <gregc@gregcagle.com> wrote in message + > news:vf7hkrs2katjcb@corp.supernews.com...  >  >>Bill Todd wrote: >> >>K >>>Just what do you suppose that the people in Spitbrook developing VMS and G >>>Tru64, and the Alpha engineers themselves, would have told you about  > 	 > Alpha's  > J >>>future prior to June 25, 2001?  (That's a rhetorical question:  you canI >>>*see* what they would have told you simply by digging up a copy of the G >>>Heil/Lipcon letter guaranteeing, in detail, Alpha's long-term future  >  > that > J >>>was posted on Alpha's Web pages until a month after the Alphacide.)  OrH >>>about Tru64's future prior to the merger-related decision to drop it? >  > Being  > ? >>>an insider is no guarantee whatsoever of knowing the future.  >>> J >>>The people making the *real* decisions about HP-UX's future are many of >  > the  > H >>>same ones who were involved, at Compaq and/or at HP, in the decisions >  > about  > G >>>Alpha and then Tru64.  They have a track record in such matters that 5 >>>arguably counts for more than your own beliefs do.  >>J >>Whatever. Why don't we check in in five years and see who was right 8^). >  > H > People 'betting their businesses' on HP-UX (or VMS), just as they wereM > encouraged to bet them on Alpha, don't have that luxury:  they have to make A > plans on the basis of the best information they have right now.  > L > If they were worried about a bug or some other technical issue with HP-UX,K > knowing the people you know in HP-UX development would be useful to them. K > But for making longer-term plans, trust in the *vendor* is also required, I > regardless of the quality and motivation of the development group - and L > neither recent HP leadership nor its acquired leadership from Compaq seems$ > very worthy of that kind of trust. >  > - bill >  > F I have to agree with Bill here.  In these days, betting even your own - job security on anything is a risky business.   D So far I have been lucky, but this luck might be drawing to a close H soon.  Governments (my address contains .gov.au) can change the roadmap 
 very quickly.   A As employees or vendees, I don't see any reason for trust in any  I roadmap.  I think our lives changed in this respect during the nineties.  ;   Yet all we seem to be seeing by this changes is failures.    Regards, Paddy      G ***********************************************************************   C "This electronic message and any attachments may contain privileged > and confidential information intended only for the use of the B addressees named above.  If you are not the intended recipient of C this email, please delete the message and any attachment and advise B the sender.  You are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, 7 distribution, reproduction of this email is prohibited.   A If you have received the email in error, please notify TransGrid  A immediately.  Any views expressed in this email are those of the  = individual sender except where the sender expressly and with  C authority states them to be the views of TransGrid.  TransGrid uses > virus scanning software but excludes any liability for viruses contained in any attachment.  < Please note the email address for TransGrid personnel is now$ firstname.lastname@transgrid.com.au"  G ***********************************************************************    ------------------------------   Date: 21 Jun 03 19:06:38 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)  Subject: Re: HP to drop hpux? ) Message-ID: <75yvqGmtt2Y8@elias.decus.ch>   X In article <vf7bphopivemc8@corp.supernews.com>, Greg Cagle <gregc@gregcagle.com> writes: > Bill Todd wrote: >>  J >> I don't doubt for a moment that *you* believe that, Greg.  And it wouldO >> certainly make a lot of people here (let alone those actually *in* the HP-UX N >> world) a lot more comfortable to believe it as well.  But that doesn't make >> it true.  > I > Bill - I *am* in the HP-UX world. Look me up on Google if you need some D > data. I have worked with and for HP since 1990 and know a *lot* ofE > people in the HP-UX labs, as well as BCS marketing. I know what I'm I > talking about. You can choose not to believe it - that's your decision. * > But I know a lot more about than you do. >   G Which is unfortunately exactly what I was saying to my fellow employees G in 1980, six months before I resigned. The complete computer department . were made redundant less than 12 months later.   --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 12:44:33 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>  Subject: Re: HP to drop hpux? ' Message-ID: <3EF49981.FA4D3D0B@fsi.net>    JF Mezei wrote:  >  > Bill Todd wrote:J > > People 'betting their businesses' on HP-UX (or VMS), just as they wereO > > encouraged to bet them on Alpha, don't have that luxury:  they have to make C > > plans on the basis of the best information they have right now.  > L > It is worse now. Before June 25 2001 (and the ensuing merger), only tandemH > folks were worried about a platform change (to alpha). But now, all HPP > customers, except the wintel crowd) are faced with platform chance. And if youK > are a vax customer, the prospects of impending end of life for VMS on VAX 7 > since less and less is being upodated to match alpha.  > K > HP-UX is faced with a migration to the uncertain IA64 thing combined with 6 > possibly big changed when Tru64 bits are integrated. > M > VMS is faced with a migration to the uncertain IA64 thing, combined with HP  > ignoring VMS > < > NSK is faced with a migration to the uncertain IA64 thing. > J > Tru64 and MPE are faced with a migration to another vendor, or if bribedG > sufficiently by HP, to HP-UX which itself is faced with 2 migrations.  > L > With all these migrations happening at the same time, combined with peopleP > being told not to judge IA64 yet because it will be great in the future, folksN > are starting to look at what they should do. They know they must change, but( > the HP solutions aren't available yet. > P > And worse yet, when you look at HP ignoring VMS, would you be comfortable withO > committing to VMS when its vendors doesn't want to even mention its name (let " > alone include it in marketing ?) > M > And when you look at the precedents set by the Alpha murder, killing of MPE H > and Tru64,  then you cannot believe the so called "commitments" to the > remaining HP products. > N > As an example of how people got screwed, consider the Qubec government thatP > had committed to a huge contract with Compaq to ditch their IBM mainframes andL > convert to Tru64 on Alpha --- just a couple of months before Compaq turned? > around and killed Alpha and a few months later, killed Tru64.  > 9 > How canb you trust such a vendor's "commitments" ??????   ? I've already been told internally at work that purchases of new @ Proliants are strictly verboten. All new purchases will be Dell,0 although new Alphas will be acquired, if needed.  @ As we are a major, high profile-medical center in the #2 city inF America, I would sit up and take notice of that if I were HP. I'm not,( but that is quite beside the point, IMO.   -- l David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemse http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/-   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Jun 03 08:52:50 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)< Subject: Re: Memo:  Rant) Message-ID: <lzMuzH8PrDG+@elias.decus.ch>   d In article <OF90EADCC0.090C841A-ON80256D4B.002F407D@systems.uk.hsbc>, paul.beaudoin@hsbc.com writes: > L > The ^^*^%% script kiddies aided and abetted by the amateurs in Redmond gotL > my laptop (AGAIN!) yesterday. You would think that anyone that could writeF > a piece of code so good that it can defeat even low level disk checkM > programs would have enough imagination to do something useful.  In the end,hL > the only recovery was to init the disk and start again - (*)&*&(()(. Yes IK > am NATted and Nortoned but not firewalled. Yes, My VMS machine is equallyiL > exposed and no, it has never been breached.   If I ever catch one of theseK > guys, he will have to learn to type with his nose if he wants to continuec
 > his career.  > = > There .... that feels better. Have a fine weekend everyone.n > H Sorry to hear about that. Have you tried Kerio, as recommended by Hunter3 Goatley at http://www.goatley.com/hunter/w2k.html ?b   --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Jun 03 09:10:47 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)a$ Subject: Re: Mozilla on old hardware) Message-ID: <VofFMlAzyfGb@elias.decus.ch>   U In article <00A219B9.D0A042AC@SendSpamHere.ORG>,   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:sY > In article <c06Ia.2908$IU1.126@news.cpqcorp.net>, hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes: y >>In article <bcqi31$vk4$1@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes:tL >>:At home, I have a 3000/600 with 192 MB and a 255/233 with 64 MB.  I know K >>:that the requirements/recommendations/suggestions for Mozilla are for a yJ >>:more powerful machine, particularly for more memory.  What will happen 1 >>:if I try it nevertheless?  Is it worth a try?   >>F >>  Mozilla will function, but will be very slow -- your definition ofF >>  "slow" and "usable" may vary from mine of course, but having triedF >>  this configuration with an AlphaStation 255/300 with 192 MB, I didE >>  not wish to continue with that particular effort.  But after somesE >>  Alpha hardware upgrades, I now run Mozilla full-time and its veryeC >>  nice -- I'm in the midst of downloading the current Mozilla 1.4a >>  baselevel right now. >>G >>  My own general recommendations for Mozilla are for an EV56 or laterhH >>  Alpha processor, and for 256 MB (or more) of system physical memory. > = > Dual processor AS1200 with 4GB... Mozilla is still as $#!+.n > B My take: I stopped using it about a year ago when it couldn't keepC up with my typing speed. The latest version of CSWB (1.2.1) finallydE gives acceptable performance on my home PWS600au with 512MB, although > completely messes up the colours on any other visible windows.  A At work, my XP900 with only 128MB is not up to that unless I want4B everything else swapped out, so I run CSWB with the display coming& back to my XP900 from this 3GB system:  $ MYNODE, a AlphaServer 4100 5/600 8MBE Multiprocessing is ENABLED. Streamlined synchronization image loaded.n0 Minimum multiprocessing revision levels: CPU = 1   PRIMARY CPU = 00	 CPU sets:n    Active         00 01 02 03n    Configure      00 01 02 03o    Potential      00 01 02 03f    Autostart      00 01 02 03     Failover       None     --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 10:22:17 +0200o From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>$ Subject: Re: Mozilla on old hardware2 Message-ID: <bd14vg$5s9$1@news2.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>   VAXman- wrote:Y > In article <c06Ia.2908$IU1.126@news.cpqcorp.net>, hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:. > y >>In article <bcqi31$vk4$1@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes:2L >>:At home, I have a 3000/600 with 192 MB and a 255/233 with 64 MB.  I know K >>:that the requirements/recommendations/suggestions for Mozilla are for a nJ >>:more powerful machine, particularly for more memory.  What will happen 1 >>:if I try it nevertheless?  Is it worth a try? , >>E >> Mozilla will function, but will be very slow -- your definition ofnE >> "slow" and "usable" may vary from mine of course, but having tried E >> this configuration with an AlphaStation 255/300 with 192 MB, I did0D >> not wish to continue with that particular effort.  But after someD >> Alpha hardware upgrades, I now run Mozilla full-time and its veryB >> nice -- I'm in the midst of downloading the current Mozilla 1.4 >> baselevel right now.y >>F >> My own general recommendations for Mozilla are for an EV56 or laterG >> Alpha processor, and for 256 MB (or more) of system physical memory.  >  > = > Dual processor AS1200 with 4GB... Mozilla is still as $#!+.o  $ 4GB should be sufficient I guess :-)  L However you also have to tune DecWindows/Motif, Sysgen, and you own account.@ Furthermore your graphics card should have some performance too.  P I ran Mozilla on a PWS500au, 1GB and a Powerstorm 4D20, and the performance was P quite good. Now I'm running it on a 466 MHz DS10, 1GB, and a Radeon7500, and it Q is a bit faster of course. Over all the speed of Mozilla is more then acceptable e6 for me, and I have been using it for some 3 years now.     >  > --Q > VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMc
 >            e7 >   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" , >    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 07:45:07 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)% Subject: Re: New AlphaServer DS15 ???SL Message-ID: <rdeininger-2106030745080001@user-uinj4j3.dialup.mindspring.com>  O In article <rdJIa.35955$RM6.501725@news.chello.at>, peter@langstoeger.at wrote:   D >In article <bcva13$nj3fl$2@ID-152801.news.dfncis.de>, Michael Unger <unger@decus.de> writes:J >>The "AlphaServer DS15" is already included in the performance comparison >>table, available ath >>L >><URL: http://h18002.www1.hp.com/alphaserver/performance/perf_by_perf.html> >>5 >>but it is not mentioned at the "AlphaServer" pages.e >>5 >>Does anyone know details? QuickSpecs? Availability?i >g, >Soon. VMS V7.3-2 adds support for the DS15.  G I think DS15 is expected around late Sept or early Oct, unless you have * arranged  with HP to be a field test site.  7 Minimum VMS version is expected to be V7.3-1 plus ECOs.e   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 12:09:20 GMTi) From: bob smith <sfmc68@bellatlantic.net>i% Subject: Re: New AlphaServer DS15 ???e/ Message-ID: <3EF44B4C.1070304@bellatlantic.net>o  G There is also a DS25 listed, above the DS15, with a date of June 2003. oG are there any tidbits about this? Am I correct in assuming this is new ' cpu in a DS style package?  I If someone tells me that the motherboard is the same and the cpu is just l" a plug in, that will make my day!! thanks bobh   Michael Unger wrote:J > The "AlphaServer DS15" is already included in the performance comparison > table, available ate > L > <URL: http://h18002.www1.hp.com/alphaserver/performance/perf_by_perf.html> > 5 > but it is not mentioned at the "AlphaServer" pages.  > 5 > Does anyone know details? QuickSpecs? Availability?t > 	 > Michaela >    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 12:49:30 GMTd) From: bob smith <sfmc68@bellatlantic.net> % Subject: Re: New AlphaServer DS15 ??? - Message-ID: <3EF454B6.80507@bellatlantic.net>a  / Responding to my own post, gauche perhaps but..mI looking at specs on DS25, it describes the cpu as 21264C, at 1GHZ, so do wH I* leap to the conclusion that DS15 could be a 1GHZ 21264C based system? thanks bobn   bob smith wrote:I > There is also a DS25 listed, above the DS15, with a date of June 2003.  I > are there any tidbits about this? Am I correct in assuming this is new - > cpu in a DS style package? > K > If someone tells me that the motherboard is the same and the cpu is just j$ > a plug in, that will make my day!! > thanks > bobi >  > Michael Unger wrote: > K >> The "AlphaServer DS15" is already included in the performance comparisonp >> table, available at >>	 >> <URL: tG >> http://h18002.www1.hp.com/alphaserver/performance/perf_by_perf.html>e >>6 >> but it is not mentioned at the "AlphaServer" pages. >>6 >> Does anyone know details? QuickSpecs? Availability? >>
 >> Michael >> >    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 17:02:09 +0200 $ From: Michael Unger <unger@decus.de>% Subject: Re: New AlphaServer DS15 ???-5 Message-ID: <bd1s4u$nc754$1@ID-152801.news.dfncis.de>   & On 21-Jun-2003 14:09, bob smith wrote:  I > There is also a DS25 listed, above the DS15, with a date of June 2003. HI > are there any tidbits about this? Am I correct in assuming this is new t > cpu in a DS style package?  H The DS25 itself is no _new_ system; the earliest QuickSpecs I have savedF (PDF file) is dated 5-Aug-2002. In the QuickSpecs dated 24-Mar-2003 asF well as in the earlier one the "Alpha 21264C 1000 MHz processor with 8* MB L2 DDR cache" is explicitely mentioned.   > K > If someone tells me that the motherboard is the same and the cpu is just  $ > a plug in, that will make my day!!   Michael.   -- u  @ Please do *not* send "Security Patch Notifications" or "SecurityA Updates"; this system isn't running a Micro$oft operating system.i= And don't annoy me <mailto:postmaster@[127.0.0.1]> please ;-)m   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.342 ************************