1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 26 Jun 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 350       Contents:4 Re: $brkthruw from a symbiont returns SS$_DEVOFFLINE4 Re: $brkthruw from a symbiont returns SS$_DEVOFFLINE& access a saveset from windows or linux Re: crash dumpP databases on VMS (was: RE: Hewlett-Packard said to be interested in buying softwP Re: databases on VMS (was: RE: Hewlett-Packard said to be interested in buying sP Re: databases on VMS (was: RE: Hewlett-Packard said to be interested in buying sP Re: databases on VMS (was: RE: Hewlett-Packard said to be interested in buying sP Re: databases on VMS (was: RE: Hewlett-Packard said to be interestedin buying so Re: EMC on VMSP giving out my password! user: special69 pass: friend69                          P Re: Hewlett-Packard said to be interested in buying software and services companP Re: Hewlett-Packard said to be interested in buying software and services companP Re: Hewlett-Packard said to be interested in buying software and services compan Re: HP to drop hpux? Re: HP to drop hpux? Re: HP to drop hpux? Re: HP to drop hpux? HP's SSH EAK Re: HP's SSH EAK0 LAT SMG coded application to Telnet-based screen4 Re: LAT SMG coded application to Telnet-based screen4 Re: LAT SMG coded application to Telnet-based screen4 Re: LAT SMG coded application to Telnet-based screen LPD printing problem Re: LPD printing problem Re: LPD printing problem: Re: New Business View Magazine for HP Enterprise Customers: Re: New Business View Magazine for HP Enterprise Customers: Re: New Business View Magazine for HP Enterprise Customers: Re: New Business View Magazine for HP Enterprise Customers: Re: New Business View Magazine for HP Enterprise Customers Re: Portents of Itanium death  Re: Portents of Itanium death  Re: SIMH V3.0-0 released Re: SWXCRMGR Update  Re: Tadpole Alpha-Book 1 Re: Tadpole Alpha-Book 1 Re: Tadpole Alpha-Book 1 Re: Tadpole Alpha-Book 1 Re: Tadpole Alpha-Book 1 Re: Tadpole Alpha-Book 1 Re: Tadpole Alpha-Book 1 Re: Tadpole Alpha-Book 1 Re: Tadpole Alpha-Book 1 Re: Tadpole Alpha-Book 1 Re: Who can you trust, then?' WRQ Reflection and DEC escape sequences   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 26 Jun 2003 06:40:19 -0700$ From: gspamtackett@yahoo.com (Galen)= Subject: Re: $brkthruw from a symbiont returns SS$_DEVOFFLINE = Message-ID: <bdc65a53.0306260540.73b59659@posting.google.com>   | Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message news:<01KXIMBRXL6MAOKN0V@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>...F > > I have a bit of C code to write a breakthru message to a specified' > > user. It looks something like this:  > > H > > This works as expected if executed from within a typical interactive% > > program, even a detached process.  > > I > > If executed from a symbiont, though, the I/O status block gets an I/O  > > status of SS$_DEVOFFLINE.  > > G > > Can someone tell me what's happening and how I might get around it?  > H > I've seen something similar.  I think there is a bug in VMS which has ? > been fixed in a newer version.  What version are you running?   E OpenVMS V7.3-1, about as current as it gets for now unless there's an F ECO we're missing (there are several out that we haven't installed but! none ring a bell regarding this).    ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 15:46:37 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> = Subject: Re: $brkthruw from a symbiont returns SS$_DEVOFFLINE ; Message-ID: <01KXK0LMB11YAOKN0V@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   G > OpenVMS V7.3-1, about as current as it gets for now unless there's an H > ECO we're missing (there are several out that we haven't installed but$ > none ring a bell regarding this).   I IIRC, the problem was introduced by a patch and corrected with a further  : patch.  So just install all patches and you'll be OK.  :-)   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jun 2003 08:23:43 -0700' From: timasmith@hotmail.com (Tim Smith) / Subject: access a saveset from windows or linux = Message-ID: <a7234bb1.0306260723.74da1202@posting.google.com>   F Is there a utility that can extract one or all files from a saveset onF windows or unix (linux).  I have a number of local saveset backups and? want to pull a file out of it sometimes - but I am remote on my  linux/windows XP laptop.   thanks   Tim    ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 11:34:44 +0200 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>  Subject: Re: crash dump ; Message-ID: <01KXJRR9J09EAM67GX@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   2 > > MACHINECHK, Machine check while in kernel mode > > % > > What is a possible cause of this?  > > K > > One of my ALPHAs crashed on me.  I was 500 km away, logged in remotely.  > K > The hottest June in 250 years here. My car registered 34.5 degress C most I > of the way home. It normally drops a couple of degrees from the initial . > reading once I get it moving, but not today.  H That was my first thought.  If this were the cause, however, isn't it a = bit strange that it came back up immediately---and stayed up?   / A VAXstation in the same cluster didn't reboot.   G Time to upgrade VMS so that I can get the temperature of the CPU via a  9 lexical function and write that into my status logs.  :-)    ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 11:56:47 +0200 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> Y Subject: databases on VMS (was: RE: Hewlett-Packard said to be interested in buying softw ; Message-ID: <01KXJS9I4F82AM67GX@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   K > > HP could, I suppose, but that would definitely put major crimps in it's 9 > > relationships with Oracle and SAP.  Not a good thing.  > F > Absolutlely correct. If HP did that, Larry would kill Rdb and OracleF > on VMS faster than you could say 'Sayonara' (the name of his yacht).B > Goodbye $2-4B annual VMS sales, goodbye $500-800MM in VMS annual5 > profits (depending upon whose numbers you believe).  > C > And while we're on it.....HP, and VMS specifically, is hostage to H > Oracle for without the last remaining major commercial relational dbmsH > available on VMS, VMS's goose is well and truly cooked. MySQL is nice, > but it isn't Oracle or Rdb.   F Though of course Rdb customers provide revenue to HP because they buy B hardware and software from HP, they also provide a huge amount of I revenue to Oracle.  Whether Larry would cut his own stream to spite HP I   don't know.   G In any case, Rdb on VMS shows no signs of going away.  While the number E of customers might not be large in absolute terms, they do generate a " lot of revenue for Oracle and HP.   G IF Rdb goes away, one can always run Mimer.  I HAVE NO EXPERIENCE WITH  F THIS PRODUCT, I just know that it runs on VMS and that it is actively I being developed and supported (yes, on VMS as well).  So, folks who want  H to run database applications on VMS look to be pretty safe.  Obviously, H if they run VMS, they don't care about the trade rags' platform du jour.C As far as interaction goes, there are enough standardised database  G interfaces so that pretty much any system can interact with a database   on a VMS system.   See       http://www.mimer.se/   , for some information on Mimer in general and  E    http://www.mimer.com/customerspartnersItem.asp?secId=177&itemId=45   $ for information on Mimer on Itanium.        ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jun 2003 08:08:50 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Y Subject: Re: databases on VMS (was: RE: Hewlett-Packard said to be interested in buying s 3 Message-ID: <1c5zKA3R$9B2@eisner.encompasserve.org>   w In article <01KXJS9I4F82AM67GX@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes: I > IF Rdb goes away, one can always run Mimer.  I HAVE NO EXPERIENCE WITH  H > THIS PRODUCT, I just know that it runs on VMS and that it is actively K > being developed and supported (yes, on VMS as well).  So, folks who want  J > to run database applications on VMS look to be pretty safe.  Obviously, J > if they run VMS, they don't care about the trade rags' platform du jour.E > As far as interaction goes, there are enough standardised database  I > interfaces so that pretty much any system can interact with a database   > on a VMS system.  %    Maybe someone can bring back SEED.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 14:01:52 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> Y Subject: Re: databases on VMS (was: RE: Hewlett-Packard said to be interested in buying s H Message-ID: <k1DKa.18490$H9q1.6941@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  F "Phillip Helbig" <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message5 news:01KXJS9I4F82AM67GX@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com... E > > > HP could, I suppose, but that would definitely put major crimps  in it's ; > > > relationships with Oracle and SAP.  Not a good thing.  > > A > > Absolutlely correct. If HP did that, Larry would kill Rdb and  Oracle@ > > on VMS faster than you could say 'Sayonara' (the name of his yacht). D > > Goodbye $2-4B annual VMS sales, goodbye $500-800MM in VMS annual7 > > profits (depending upon whose numbers you believe).  > > E > > And while we're on it.....HP, and VMS specifically, is hostage to E > > Oracle for without the last remaining major commercial relational  dbmsD > > available on VMS, VMS's goose is well and truly cooked. MySQL is nice,  > > but it isn't Oracle or Rdb.  > C > Though of course Rdb customers provide revenue to HP because they  buy C > hardware and software from HP, they also provide a huge amount of E > revenue to Oracle.  Whether Larry would cut his own stream to spite  HP I
 > don't know.  > B > In any case, Rdb on VMS shows no signs of going away.  While the numberE > of customers might not be large in absolute terms, they do generate  a # > lot of revenue for Oracle and HP.   D If Rdb and/or Oracle become EOL on VMS, the choices for the types of) customers using those db products become:  a)  Oracle on another platform,  b) DB2, ! c) and to a lesser extent Sybase, 8 all on unix or generically-speaking, a non-VMS platform.D And Oracle would still hold the lion's share of any move from VMS as the underlying o/s.   < Mimer and MySQL are generally a hard sell to most commercial
 organization.       C > IF Rdb goes away, one can always run Mimer.  I HAVE NO EXPERIENCE  WITH> > THIS PRODUCT, I just know that it runs on VMS and that it is activelyE > being developed and supported (yes, on VMS as well).  So, folks who  want= > to run database applications on VMS look to be pretty safe. 
 Obviously,D > if they run VMS, they don't care about the trade rags' platform du jour. D > As far as interaction goes, there are enough standardised database? > interfaces so that pretty much any system can interact with a  database > on a VMS system. >  > See  >  >    http://www.mimer.se/  > . > for some information on Mimer in general and >  > B http://www.mimer.com/customerspartnersItem.asp?secId=177&itemId=45 > & > for information on Mimer on Itanium. >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 17:22:49 +0200 $ From: Michael Unger <unger@decus.de>Y Subject: Re: databases on VMS (was: RE: Hewlett-Packard said to be interested in buying s 5 Message-ID: <bdf4oh$rlvv1$1@ID-152801.news.dfncis.de>   + On 26-Jun-2003 11:56, Phillip Helbig wrote:   L >> > HP could, I suppose, but that would definitely put major crimps in it's: >> > relationships with Oracle and SAP.  Not a good thing. >>  G >> Absolutlely correct. If HP did that, Larry would kill Rdb and Oracle G >> on VMS faster than you could say 'Sayonara' (the name of his yacht). C >> Goodbye $2-4B annual VMS sales, goodbye $500-800MM in VMS annual 6 >> profits (depending upon whose numbers you believe). >>  D >> And while we're on it.....HP, and VMS specifically, is hostage toI >> Oracle for without the last remaining major commercial relational dbms I >> available on VMS, VMS's goose is well and truly cooked. MySQL is nice,  >> but it isn't Oracle or Rdb. > H > Though of course Rdb customers provide revenue to HP because they buy D > hardware and software from HP, they also provide a huge amount of K > revenue to Oracle.  Whether Larry would cut his own stream to spite HP I  
 > don't know.  > I > In any case, Rdb on VMS shows no signs of going away.  While the number G > of customers might not be large in absolute terms, they do generate a $ > lot of revenue for Oracle and HP.  >  > [...]   F What about Cache? I recently noticed it is available for VMS. How many% (commercial) customers really use it?    Michael    --    @ Please do *not* send "Security Patch Notifications" or "SecurityA Updates"; this system isn't running a Micro$oft operating system. = And don't annoy me <mailto:postmaster@[127.0.0.1]> please ;-)    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 17:12:18 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> Y Subject: Re: databases on VMS (was: RE: Hewlett-Packard said to be interestedin buying so H Message-ID: <SPFKa.38665$bRt.35483@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  1 "Michael Unger" <unger@decus.de> wrote in message / news:bdf4oh$rlvv1$1@ID-152801.news.dfncis.de... - > On 26-Jun-2003 11:56, Phillip Helbig wrote:  > F > >> > HP could, I suppose, but that would definitely put major crimps in it's < > >> > relationships with Oracle and SAP.  Not a good thing. > >>B > >> Absolutlely correct. If HP did that, Larry would kill Rdb and OracleA > >> on VMS faster than you could say 'Sayonara' (the name of his  yacht). E > >> Goodbye $2-4B annual VMS sales, goodbye $500-800MM in VMS annual 8 > >> profits (depending upon whose numbers you believe). > >>F > >> And while we're on it.....HP, and VMS specifically, is hostage toF > >> Oracle for without the last remaining major commercial relational dbmsE > >> available on VMS, VMS's goose is well and truly cooked. MySQL is  nice,   > >> but it isn't Oracle or Rdb. > > E > > Though of course Rdb customers provide revenue to HP because they  buy E > > hardware and software from HP, they also provide a huge amount of A > > revenue to Oracle.  Whether Larry would cut his own stream to 
 spite HP I > > don't know.  > > D > > In any case, Rdb on VMS shows no signs of going away.  While the number> > > of customers might not be large in absolute terms, they do
 generate a% > > lot of revenue for Oracle and HP.  > > 	 > > [...]  > C > What about Cache? I recently noticed it is available for VMS. How  many' > (commercial) customers really use it?   F If I'm not mistaken, Cache is really DSM (Mumps) or a look-alike underC the hood. Was/is(?) big in the medical field during the 80's. Think 7 Progress (db and 4GL combined) and you've got the idea.   ' Not what one uses for high volume OLTP.    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jun 2003 08:36:59 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)  Subject: Re: EMC on VMS 3 Message-ID: <7AwT9yEDoxfJ@eisner.encompasserve.org>   [ In article <3EFA711D.312F91EC@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:  > Rob Young wrote: >>  ^ >> In article <3EF8FFFD.A2E8414C@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes: >>   >> >B >> >> Can you use shadowed EMC disks as system disks?  I.e., DSAx? >> >L >> > EMC does not support certain SCSI operations necessary for full supportM >> > of HBVS. As I understand it, if a disk block were to go bad and the data J >> > be unrecoverable, VMS would be unable to write the forced error flag.L >> > Therefore, HBVS would have no option other than to drop the member fromI >> > the shadow-set under a condition that would normally be recoverable.  >> > >>  , >>         Ye old READL and WRITEL thingy... >>    >>         This is a non-issue.  >  > Well, yes, it *IS* an issue. >   8 	Not really.  You want to avoid read errors, you want to( 	ensure what you wrote is what you read:  K  Symmetrix has full state-of-the-art self-monitoring, self-diagnosing, and, N where possible, self-repairing algorithms. The objective of this philosophy isI the avoidance of user-observable errors. Symmetrix will actively identify D internal temporary errors that could potentially lead to any type ofL user-observable hard failure and attempt to correct them prior to data beingM unavailable to a user or an application. This error avoidance is accomplished G through a process of error detection, error logging, and notification.    N  During idle time, the disks are read ("disk scrubbing"), looking for any typeK of error. Upon sensing a correctable error, the error is corrected and then L rewritten. The block of data is read again to verify that it was a permanentJ correction. If it was correctable, the pertinent information is logged andO scrubbing continues. If the error was not permanently corrected, the process is N repeated until it is either corrected or the error recovery routines determineO that a skip defect must be executed. If the skip defect must be executed, it is O done via Symmetrix microcode. When the skip defect is complete, notification is L made and the scrubbing process continues. Should a sufficient number of skipF defects occur on a track that would make an alternate track assignmentF necessary, that too is accomplished through Symmetrix microcode and is transparent to the user.    I  "Cache scrubbing" is accomplished in a manner similar to disk scrubbing. M During idle time, cache is checked for any single bit errors. Should a single M bit error be encountered, it is corrected, and the line of cache is rewritten M and then read to determine if it was permanently corrected. If the single bit M was permanently corrected, a counter is incremented, the error is logged, and J processing continues. If the error was not permanently corrected the firstO time, the correction process continues until either the correction is permanent M or microcode determines the single bit error is not correctable. Should it be K determined that the single bit error is permanent, that section of cache is N taken offline. This process of "fencing off" allows EMC to take the section ofC cache out of service prior to the customer seeing a temporary error     = 	What would be bad would be uncorrectable bad data.  The fact > 	that the data exists in two places makes the possibility veryA 	remote.  The Symmetrix has its own substitute for READL, WRITEL.    > J > Also, remember that we have to stay with what Cerner supports, and rightH > now, EMC ain't it. Primarily becuase Cerner's paradign is shadow-sets, > not RAIDsets.  >   I 	Sounds like Cerner is being a bit difficult.  Symmetrix supports Oracle. ? 	Oracle is the backend for Cerner.  There is a lot of Oracle on  	Symmetrix.   F > Further, and because of that, you'll need something that can monitorF > your shadow-sets and issue a warning when a member drops out, and/or > puts it back in for you.  E 	Depends.  If all your shadowset members are raidsets, not a problem. > 	All Symmetrix storage (other than BCVs) is raided.  SymmetrixC 	storage doesn't "drop out."  A drive goes bad, autospare kicks in, ? 	and the tech is on your doorstep the next morning with a drive  	as a replacement.   > H > Even further, if our Symmetrix is any indication, EMC is a still a bitI > footprint-challenged. With our EMAs, we have over five times the amount D > of storage in the same foot print as the server groups's Symmetrix > array. >   @ 	Not everyone is footprint challenged.  I've been in datacentersG 	as large as an American football field with a lot room to spare.  I've A 	been in datacenters half that size with room to spare.  Besides, @ 	they are down to 1 inch slots with DMX , Symmetrix is old news.   				Rob    ------------------------------   Date: 26 Jun 2003 16:36:58 GMT From: iqdluh@alt.netY Subject: giving out my password! user: special69 pass: friend69                           8 Message-ID: <3efb212a$0$60359$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>   Memeber's Area Back Door!        http://freexxx.closeupsof.us       l00k wat i done did!" fvpkxjcvluftekepqdsffrtylphcpwifol   POST   From: fxpsuj@alt.net Newsgroups: de.alt.comp.kde  Subject: giving out my password! user: special69 pass: friend69                                                                                                                       880    Live Phone Dating -        Call Now:   1-800-418-CHIC    2 kfqnbeghfqgkwrfqguiwupsmtoutqbengumetiytcxqsqohfzi   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jun 2003 08:08:07 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Y Subject: Re: Hewlett-Packard said to be interested in buying software and services compan 3 Message-ID: <tAHn3NTc2AR1@eisner.encompasserve.org>   n In article <eVuKa.30358$bRt.14733@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:F > Absolutlely correct. If HP did that, Larry would kill Rdb and OracleF > on VMS faster than you could say 'Sayonara' (the name of his yacht).B > Goodbye $2-4B annual VMS sales, goodbye $500-800MM in VMS annual5 > profits (depending upon whose numbers you believe).   G    I know its hard for some folks to believe, but out in the real world C    there are a hell of a lot of computers running applications that 6    don't have and don't need Oracle or any other DBMS.  @    Especially true if you have an OS with a working file system.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 17:21:36 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> Y Subject: Re: Hewlett-Packard said to be interested in buying software and services compan H Message-ID: <AYFKa.38690$bRt.14147@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  C I agree with that, but most apps these days in the commercial arena  use a relational dbms.    @ "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in5 message news:tAHn3NTc2AR1@eisner.encompasserve.org...  > In articleC <eVuKa.30358$bRt.14733@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John  Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes: A > > Absolutlely correct. If HP did that, Larry would kill Rdb and  Oracle@ > > on VMS faster than you could say 'Sayonara' (the name of his yacht). D > > Goodbye $2-4B annual VMS sales, goodbye $500-800MM in VMS annual7 > > profits (depending upon whose numbers you believe).  > C >    I know its hard for some folks to believe, but out in the real  world E >    there are a hell of a lot of computers running applications that 8 >    don't have and don't need Oracle or any other DBMS. > B >    Especially true if you have an OS with a working file system. >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 10:15:53 -0700 3 From: Robert Klute <robert_klute_removethis@hp.com> Y Subject: Re: Hewlett-Packard said to be interested in buying software and services compan 8 Message-ID: <i8amfv8ih0aqgcm372kkfiks9pdej1isb5@4ax.com>  F On 26 Jun 2003 08:08:07 -0500, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote:  o >In article <eVuKa.30358$bRt.14733@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes: G >> Absolutlely correct. If HP did that, Larry would kill Rdb and Oracle G >> on VMS faster than you could say 'Sayonara' (the name of his yacht). C >> Goodbye $2-4B annual VMS sales, goodbye $500-800MM in VMS annual 6 >> profits (depending upon whose numbers you believe). > H >   I know its hard for some folks to believe, but out in the real worldD >   there are a hell of a lot of computers running applications that7 >   don't have and don't need Oracle or any other DBMS.  > A >   Especially true if you have an OS with a working file system.   G File systems are a lousy way to manage data.  For a lot of applications G it is good enough.  Somewhere I remember reading (no I can't cite) that H 80% of the servers sold (in dollar volume) ran an RDBMS (Oracle, Sybase,D Informix, DB2, MS-SQL).  So, for hardware vendors, databases are the killer app for servers.      ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 10:11:54 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>  Subject: Re: HP to drop hpux? 0 Message-ID: <bdedcq$8n9$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   JF Mezei wrote:  > Greg Cagle wrote:  > I >>They can't decide that until the technology is there. It isn't there on I >>Linux currently, and since HP doesn't control Linux kernel development, I >>they can't plan for it. I'm specifically talking about large MP support @ >>in the standard kernel. It's JUST NOW getting into the kernel. >  > L > Compaq started to kill Alpha years ago well before IA64 was a commerciallyP > viable entity (which it isn't yet). They officially announced its murder a fewD > years later, still years ahead of IA64 being commericially viable. > M > If Carly decides that the future lies with Linux, you can rest assured that P > she will work to make Linux progress at a faster rate than HP-UX so that Linux > eventually catches up.    ; Well HP will be starting from zero in the Linux R&D stakes, = as there is nothing of note that HP have donated to the Linux  community so far.   : It is also not obvious that HP could have that much impact: anyway. The current Linux kernel change process appears to: have a lot of bottlenecks, IBM for example have complained7 that they havn't been getting responses to changes that  they have been posting.   ; SGI who have been working on getting Linux to scale on IA64 > based systems for some time have be spectacularly unsucessfull< for OS intensive commercial workloads, getting a 13x speedup= with a 28 way system on a workload that should scale linearly 
 is dreadfull.    Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 12:31:48 +0000 (UTC) + From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb)  Subject: Re: HP to drop hpux? + Message-ID: <bdep3k$21j$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>    In article <bdedcq$8n9$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: >JF Mezei wrote: >> Greg Cagle wrote: >>  < >Well HP will be starting from zero in the Linux R&D stakes,> >as there is nothing of note that HP have donated to the Linux >community so far. >   H Not sure how true that is. After all Digital/Compaq contributed to LinuxM through John "MadDog" Hall. Hence the first port of Linux to a 64bit chip was 	 to Alpha. B Thus although "classic" HP may not have had a lot to do with Linux Compaq/Digital definitely did.    
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University      ; >It is also not obvious that HP could have that much impact ; >anyway. The current Linux kernel change process appears to ; >have a lot of bottlenecks, IBM for example have complained 8 >that they havn't been getting responses to changes that >they have been posting. > < >SGI who have been working on getting Linux to scale on IA64? >based systems for some time have be spectacularly unsucessfull = >for OS intensive commercial workloads, getting a 13x speedup > >with a 28 way system on a workload that should scale linearly >is dreadfull. >  >Regards >Andrew Harrison >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 17:28:47 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>  Subject: Re: HP to drop hpux? 0 Message-ID: <bdf6vv$hdp$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   David Webb wrote:  > In article <bdedcq$8n9$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: >  >>JF Mezei wrote:  >> >>>Greg Cagle wrote: >>>  >>= >>Well HP will be starting from zero in the Linux R&D stakes, ? >>as there is nothing of note that HP have donated to the Linux  >>community so far.  >> >  > J > Not sure how true that is. After all Digital/Compaq contributed to LinuxO > through John "MadDog" Hall. Hence the first port of Linux to a 64bit chip was  > to Alpha. D > Thus although "classic" HP may not have had a lot to do with Linux  > Compaq/Digital definitely did. >   3 Yup but Alpha is a dead platform or soon to be dead . so the work done by Compaq isn't going to have# much impact on the Linux code base.   7 Classic HP pre Carly might also have been a contributor 5 but in the get out of R&D (HP buys it doesn't invent) 9 climate that exists now its unlikely to be a contributor.    Regards  Andrew Harrison  >  > David Webb > VMS and Unix team leader > CCSS > Middlesex University >  >  >  > < >>It is also not obvious that HP could have that much impact< >>anyway. The current Linux kernel change process appears to< >>have a lot of bottlenecks, IBM for example have complained9 >>that they havn't been getting responses to changes that  >>they have been posting.  >>= >>SGI who have been working on getting Linux to scale on IA64 @ >>based systems for some time have be spectacularly unsucessfull> >>for OS intensive commercial workloads, getting a 13x speedup? >>with a 28 way system on a workload that should scale linearly  >>is dreadfull.  >>	 >>Regards  >>Andrew Harrison  >> >    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jun 2003 10:48:29 -07001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)  Subject: Re: HP to drop hpux? = Message-ID: <cf15391e.0306260948.2479fb2d@posting.google.com>    Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<bdedcq$8n9$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>... = > Well HP will be starting from zero in the Linux R&D stakes, ? > as there is nothing of note that HP have donated to the Linux  > community so far.   B All the communities which make up the current HP: Digital, Compaq,; Tandem, and pre-merger HP itself, have all made significant F contributions to Linux and to the open-source movement in general, notE only in contributing time, effort, and code, but also leadership (for 1 example, Jon "Maddog" Hall came from DEC/Compaq).   C From Tandem after the Compaq acquisition came the 'NonStop Clusters E for Unixware' Single System Image clustering code base that forms the E foundation of the Linux HA project (see http://linux-ha.org/), and HP  is continuing that effort (seeE http://sourceforge.net/projects/ssic-linux).  And HP has been helping C the OpenMOSIX project which aims to provide SSI clustering on Linux  without application changes.  F HP has been instrumental in the Trillian project to move Linux forwardD from IA32 onto Itanium.  (IBM recently backed out on that.)  HP also co-founded Gelato.  F In addition to volunteer efforts by people from within HP, HP also hasC well-funded official efforts such as our Linux Systems Division and  our Linux & Open Source Labs.   ) HP's Linux sales now exceed $2B annually.   ? So it's quite obvious that HP is serious about Linux, and about  helping it move forward.  < Customers can make their own judgements about Sun's level of4 committment (if you can even call it that) to Linux.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 10:24:15 +0200 8 From: Wolfgang Angenendt <angenendt@mpi-muelheim.mpg.de> Subject: HP's SSH EAK 0 Message-ID: <3EFAADAF.70606@mpi-muelheim.mpg.de>  
 Hello all,  A the online help of HP's SSH (EAK) shows an "-x" switch for X11=20  tunneling, but I think it doesn't work.K The manual of the June Edition ("HP TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS -  Guide=20  to SSH")E describes the port forwarding in the "Overview" chapter but in the=20  "Command reference" 8 chapter  I cannot find a description of the "-x" switch.  D When I try to make a connection with PuTTY to the VMS server, the=20 DISPLAY is not set. 6 The same PuTTY connection to an Tru64 node works fine.  J I cannot find a statement in the docu, wether this function is possible=20	 or not...  Does anyone know?    thanks,  Wolfgang       --=20 > Wolfgang Angenendt                        Tel: (0208) 306 2132@ Max-Planck-Institut f=FCr Kohlenforschung   Fax: (0208) 306 2981I Abtl. Rechenzentrum                       <angenendt@mpi-muelheim.mpg.de>  Kaiser-Wilhelm-Platz 1 45470 M=FClheim an der Ruhr    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jun 2003 08:20:59 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: HP's SSH EAK 3 Message-ID: <$R5uD9vam4OR@eisner.encompasserve.org>   k In article <3EFAADAF.70606@mpi-muelheim.mpg.de>, Wolfgang Angenendt <angenendt@mpi-muelheim.mpg.de> writes:  > Hello all, > C > the online help of HP's SSH (EAK) shows an "-x" switch for X11=20  > tunneling, but I think > it doesn't work.M > The manual of the June Edition ("HP TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS -  Guide=20 
 > to SSH")G > describes the port forwarding in the "Overview" chapter but in the=20n > "Command reference"r: > chapter  I cannot find a description of the "-x" switch. > F > When I try to make a connection with PuTTY to the VMS server, the=20 > DISPLAY is not set.n8 > The same PuTTY connection to an Tru64 node works fine. > L > I cannot find a statement in the docu, wether this function is possible=20 > or not...e > Does anyone know?a  C    All I can say is I do this with Putty and Multinet's SSH all the F    time.  No special settings on the server end, I just have to enable&    X11 forwarding on the Putty client.  E    I would suspect that any -x switch for HP's SSH would apply to SSHo0    client, you seem to be having a server issue.   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jun 2003 00:30:57 -0700 From: larut@yahoo.com (L Arut)9 Subject: LAT SMG coded application to Telnet-based screenr= Message-ID: <73f00c8f.0306252330.4e0edb39@posting.google.com>n  D We have a monitoring system which uses SMG calls and Starlet libraryC written in Vax Pascal and works over LAT as an application service.sE It would be nice if I can change it to a Telnet type application over 3 the IP network to target the DS90M terminal server. @ Is there any site with examples of code for users migrating fromD SMG-type VMS system calls for such VT applications to move to Telnet  connections based on QIO stuff ?  C As the corporate backbone does not support LAT, we are in a fix andiD need to get a reliable way of allowing remote or over the WAN access to such monitoring screens.sD I don't know if Cisco LAT over IP will be robust or fast enough overC such a WAN and the cost of a trial may involve cost equivalent to as rewrite.     K    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 08:50:51 +0100d* From: "John Travell" <john@travell.uk.net>= Subject: Re: LAT SMG coded application to Telnet-based screen15 Message-ID: <bde8l6$s1svi$1@ID-120847.news.dfncis.de>e  + "L Arut" <larut@yahoo.com> wrote in message17 news:73f00c8f.0306252330.4e0edb39@posting.google.com... F > We have a monitoring system which uses SMG calls and Starlet libraryE > written in Vax Pascal and works over LAT as an application service. G > It would be nice if I can change it to a Telnet type application overu5 > the IP network to target the DS90M terminal server.LB > Is there any site with examples of code for users migrating fromF > SMG-type VMS system calls for such VT applications to move to Telnet" > connections based on QIO stuff ? >h  I Why do you not re-write it as a web application. That way you effectivelya future-proof the application.sJ I'm sure there are examples of embedded webservers that you can include inC the code. Maybe there are callable interfaces in one of the popular C webservers to use instead of including the server in your own code.a       -- John Travell  VMS crashdump expertise for hire john@jomatech.comh +44-(0)23-92552229 http://www.jomatech.com/       --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A Version: 6.0.492 / Virus Database: 291 - Release Date: 24/06/2003t   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 09:54:41 +0100t( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>= Subject: Re: LAT SMG coded application to Telnet-based screene) Message-ID: <3EFAB4D1.ED8F8039@127.0.0.1>r  
 L Arut wrote:g > F > We have a monitoring system which uses SMG calls and Starlet libraryE > written in Vax Pascal and works over LAT as an application service.sG > It would be nice if I can change it to a Telnet type application over 5 > the IP network to target the DS90M terminal server.rB > Is there any site with examples of code for users migrating fromF > SMG-type VMS system calls for such VT applications to move to Telnet" > connections based on QIO stuff ? > E > As the corporate backbone does not support LAT, we are in a fix andaF > need to get a reliable way of allowing remote or over the WAN access > to such monitoring screens.mF > I don't know if Cisco LAT over IP will be robust or fast enough overE > such a WAN and the cost of a trial may involve cost equivalent to a 
 > rewrite.  G I agree with John that it is a good time to consider a rewrite. You canaF move from VAX (assumed from your description) to Alpha, take advantageE of the RTR (reliable Transaction router included in base O/S) and you ? have the Retain Trust to protect the investment. Depending, webg1 enablement may or may not be the right way to go.:  C The reliability or otherwise of the infrastructure is then not yourm6 concern because you control it in the VMS environment.  G While this may appear to cost real money, compare it with what I expectcE is a frozen VAX environment with zero cost over multiple years exceptsD for electricity, a little housekeeping and hardware maintenance, the. cost of which may be increasing comparatively.  F By your description, they already have the skills in-house (may need aG little additional help) to support an investment which will last for at B least the same number of years and will deliver the same or better service.   --  ? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot comt   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jun 2003 08:18:39 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)0= Subject: Re: LAT SMG coded application to Telnet-based screend3 Message-ID: <7wB4PRFJ5mdA@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ^ In article <73f00c8f.0306252330.4e0edb39@posting.google.com>, larut@yahoo.com (L Arut) writes:F > We have a monitoring system which uses SMG calls and Starlet libraryE > written in Vax Pascal and works over LAT as an application service. G > It would be nice if I can change it to a Telnet type application overd5 > the IP network to target the DS90M terminal server.yB > Is there any site with examples of code for users migrating fromF > SMG-type VMS system calls for such VT applications to move to Telnet" > connections based on QIO stuff ?  B    SMG doesn't give a hoot about the connection being direct, LAT,C    TELNET, DECnet, Kermit, Joe's Beanery and Network protocols, ...i  A    What's you're real problem?  Starting a reverse TELNET session $    instead of a reverse LAT session?   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 10:56:16 +0200aD From: "Michal Grotthuss" <antispamzmichalg@poczta.nospam.onetxxx.pl> Subject: LPD printing problem - Message-ID: <bdecgq$q2s$1@SunSITE.icm.edu.pl>    Hi all,,< This problem was probably discussed many times on this list.I The problem is that LPD print symbiont inserts LF characters after /SETUP  module.eH This problem occured in version TCPIP ver. 5.0 and was corrected by ECO3K patch (exactly: TCPIPALP_E03A50 or DEC-AXPVMS-TCPIP_ECO-V0500-113-4) and bytI defining logicals TCPIP$LPD_SETUP_NOLF or TCPIP$LPD_<quename>_SETUP_NOLF. L I am now using TCPIP ver. 5.3 ECO 2 (exactly: AXPVMS-TCPIP_ECO-V0503-182-4 ). with defined logicals TCPIP$LPD_SETUP_NOLF andD TCPIP$LPD_<quename>_SETUP_NOLF but I still have a problem with print	 symbiont.u Can anybody help me? Michas   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 10:07:37 GMTn- From: "labadie" <tonari_no_tottoro@127.0.0.1>e! Subject: Re: LPD printing problem 1 Message-ID: <JBzKa.3413$Gz2.286@news.cpqcorp.net>p  G "Michal Grotthuss" <antispamzmichalg@poczta.nospam.onetxxx.pl> wrote in./ message news:bdecgq$q2s$1@SunSITE.icm.edu.pl... 	 > Hi all, > > This problem was probably discussed many times on this list.K > The problem is that LPD print symbiont inserts LF characters after /SETUP 	 > module.eJ > This problem occured in version TCPIP ver. 5.0 and was corrected by ECO3J > patch (exactly: TCPIPALP_E03A50 or DEC-AXPVMS-TCPIP_ECO-V0500-113-4) and byK > defining logicals TCPIP$LPD_SETUP_NOLF or TCPIP$LPD_<quename>_SETUP_NOLF.M/ > I am now using TCPIP ver. 5.3 ECO 2 (exactly:T AXPVMS-TCPIP_ECO-V0503-182-4 )0 > with defined logicals TCPIP$LPD_SETUP_NOLF andF > TCPIP$LPD_<quename>_SETUP_NOLF but I still have a problem with print > symbiont.s > Can anybody help me? > Michas >o >y  5 This is documented in the releases notes of Tcpip 5.3gL http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/731FINAL/TCPRN/v53_relnotes_003.html#lpd_clust er_overview   L With Tcpip 5.3, a good number of logical names are replaced by values in the file tcpip$lpd.conf   7 To create this file, enable the lpd service (or just do-" $ set def sys$specific:<tcpip$lpd>9 $ search tcpip$lpd_conf.template "!!!"/out=tcpip$lpd.confc, and remove the comments for the Setup-NoLF )   regards    Grard   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 13:31:48 +0200bD From: "Michal Grotthuss" <antispamzmichalg@poczta.nospam.onetxxx.pl>! Subject: Re: LPD printing problem8- Message-ID: <bdelkd$bcl$1@SunSITE.icm.edu.pl>P  8 "labadie" <tonari_no_tottoro@127.0.0.1> wrote in message+ news:JBzKa.3413$Gz2.286@news.cpqcorp.net...  > I > "Michal Grotthuss" <antispamzmichalg@poczta.nospam.onetxxx.pl> wrote inr1 > message news:bdecgq$q2s$1@SunSITE.icm.edu.pl...h > > Hi all,s@ > > This problem was probably discussed many times on this list.F > > The problem is that LPD print symbiont inserts LF characters after /SETUP > > module.eL > > This problem occured in version TCPIP ver. 5.0 and was corrected by ECO3L > > patch (exactly: TCPIPALP_E03A50 or DEC-AXPVMS-TCPIP_ECO-V0500-113-4) and > by- > > defining logicals TCPIP$LPD_SETUP_NOLF orn TCPIP$LPD_<quename>_SETUP_NOLF. 1 > > I am now using TCPIP ver. 5.3 ECO 2 (exactly:o  > AXPVMS-TCPIP_ECO-V0503-182-4 )2 > > with defined logicals TCPIP$LPD_SETUP_NOLF andH > > TCPIP$LPD_<quename>_SETUP_NOLF but I still have a problem with print
 > > symbiont.u > > Can anybody help me?
 > > Michas > >n > >  > 7 > This is documented in the releases notes of Tcpip 5.3W >eL http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/731FINAL/TCPRN/v53_relnotes_003.html#lpd_clust
 > er_overviewo >fJ > With Tcpip 5.3, a good number of logical names are replaced by values in thee > file tcpip$lpd.conft >r9 > To create this file, enable the lpd service (or just dol$ > $ set def sys$specific:<tcpip$lpd>; > $ search tcpip$lpd_conf.template "!!!"/out=tcpip$lpd.confV. > and remove the comments for the Setup-NoLF ) >s	 > regardsn >o > Grard >s  
 Great thanks,o4 But unfortunately this is not all that must be done.L You must also add an "sn" flag in SYS$SPECIFIC:[TCPIP$LPD]TCPIP$PRINTCAP.DAT file
 like this: HP_QUEUE|hp_queue:\H1         :lf=/TCPIP$LPD_ROOT/000000/HP_QUEUE.LOG:\t         :lp=HP_QUEUE:\         :rm=10.10.26.42:\y&         :sd=/TCPIP$LPD_ROOT/HP_QUEUE:\         :sn:   Michas   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 08:26:05 +0100t( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>C Subject: Re: New Business View Magazine for HP Enterprise Customersr) Message-ID: <3EFAA00D.22E3C09D@127.0.0.1>    John Smith wrote:n >   > > > This link, entitled "The Bigger the System, the Better the > Performance":  > > C > > http://www.hpbusinessview.com/index.cfm?view=watch.story&aid=60m > E > I get email with subject lines like that all the time ;-)  but they & > are automatically filtered to Trash.   Well, here is that sentence:  E       Based on the new EV7 Alpha processor, this technically advancedc8       AlphaServer family provides Tru64 UNIX and OpenVMS=       AlphaServer customers with immediate benefits through a0D       powerful combination of performance, scalability, reliability,.       manageability and availability features.  E OK, so it does plug the Retain Trust later down the article, but whattE part of it would convince the man in the street that OpenVMS is worthl investigation as a solution?  G Keith, I and I guess a lot of others here appreciate all the effort youbH are putting into making us aware of the articles etc., please don't feelG we're shooting the piano player, but just consider things are being putt
 into context.S  E I heard in whispers relatively recently, that "you don't want to tellj: people about OpenVMS, because people don't understand it".  G Excuse me, but, what part of "it doesn't go down" don't you understand?d
 [Rhetorical].h  B This too is rather like the no prescription needed emails, and theG difference is, it never gets infected, so medication is never required.uB And it is still pleasuring a lot of people, but with a little moreB effort, the rest of the planet could be thrown into sheer ecstasy!  F The emperor would finally be seen as he really is, stark bollock nakedB with a floppy, and no amount of generic substance would change it.  B Serious suggestion time: For the next edition, you need an articleG describing what OpenVMS does, a reliable, secure backroom server system-" that you can bet your business on.  D A W2K admin who also manages an EVA where there is an OpenVMS systemH connected, says she wishes she had more OpenVMS systems [and less of theF others] after having a fleeting glimpse of its standard features. Over to you.1 -- 1? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencess nclews at csc dot coml   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 06:31:36 -0400t2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)C Subject: Re: New Business View Magazine for HP Enterprise CustomersDL Message-ID: <rdeininger-2606030631360001@user-uinj4di.dialup.mindspring.com>  3 In article <3EFAA00D.22E3C09D@127.0.0.1>, Nic Clews  <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote:>    C >Serious suggestion time: For the next edition, you need an articletH >describing what OpenVMS does, a reliable, secure backroom server system# >that you can bet your business on.'  J Does this magazine have any contact info for the editor?  You don't expectA anyone to act on your suggestion if you only post it here, right?y  J Even if Keith or Sue or someone else in HP sees your suggestion and passesI it along, I expect it would go in the folder marked "comments from peoplee3 who couldn't be bothered to send their own email."    I In other words, by posting here you are "preaching to the converted", but E likely making no progress toward the goal of improving VMS visibilitye within the HP corporate maze.w   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jun 2003 08:11:29 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) C Subject: Re: New Business View Magazine for HP Enterprise Customerso3 Message-ID: <UVzk4AFsdwwR@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  d In article <CUqKa.19073$XG4.14548@rwcrnsc53>, brad@.gateway.2wire.net (Bradford J. Hamilton) writes: > J > This link, entitled "The Bigger the System, the Better the Performance": > A > http://www.hpbusinessview.com/index.cfm?view=watch.story&aid=60C  )    That's what I was looking for, thanks.d   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 15:35:07 +0100r( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>C Subject: Re: New Business View Magazine for HP Enterprise Customers-) Message-ID: <3EFB049B.4F08621B@127.0.0.1>8   Robert Deininger wrote:@ > 5 > In article <3EFAA00D.22E3C09D@127.0.0.1>, Nic Clewse! > <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote:m > E > >Serious suggestion time: For the next edition, you need an articleaJ > >describing what OpenVMS does, a reliable, secure backroom server system% > >that you can bet your business on.D > L > Does this magazine have any contact info for the editor?  You don't expectC > anyone to act on your suggestion if you only post it here, right?r > L > Even if Keith or Sue or someone else in HP sees your suggestion and passesK > it along, I expect it would go in the folder marked "comments from peopleS4 > who couldn't be bothered to send their own email." > K > In other words, by posting here you are "preaching to the converted", buteG > likely making no progress toward the goal of improving VMS visibility  > within the HP corporate maze.     Yes, points taken. And acted on.  ? But you have also raised a very important point, that of targettG audience. Even an article written with the fine things we know and loveoE is an exercise in futility unless it reaches the decision makers, andoG those who [are capable of] design and implement solutions. We would notTH even be having this discussion if the converted had not been informed ofB its presence, certainly didn't drop in my inbox (email), the snailD mailbox hasn't had this publication, when going to HP WWW sites, not; even a popup (as hateful as the are) said "check this out".o  F Apparently I'm very famous, in my back yard which is the same place my' opinions have the highest validity. :-)n   -- n? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencesr nclews at csc dot comn   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 17:20:30 GMTd# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>aC Subject: Re: New Business View Magazine for HP Enterprise Customers H Message-ID: <yXFKa.38687$bRt.24896@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  ? "Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspring.com> wrote in messageeF news:rdeininger-2606030631360001@user-uinj4di.dialup.mindspring.com...5 > In article <3EFAA00D.22E3C09D@127.0.0.1>, Nic Clewsd! > <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote:e >a >mE > >Serious suggestion time: For the next edition, you need an articleaC > >describing what OpenVMS does, a reliable, secure backroom server  system% > >that you can bet your business on.a >lE > Does this magazine have any contact info for the editor?  You don'ty expectC > anyone to act on your suggestion if you only post it here, right?  >oE > Even if Keith or Sue or someone else in HP sees your suggestion andh passesD > it along, I expect it would go in the folder marked "comments from people4 > who couldn't be bothered to send their own email." >h; > In other words, by posting here you are "preaching to thes converted", bute< > likely making no progress toward the goal of improving VMS
 visibility > within the HP corporate maze.r   Robert,r  C The day HP starts to visibly and sustainably begins advertising VMStD (in the traditional sense of print media, TV) to the CEO/COT/COO/CFOF crowd is the day we stop bitching (caveat...as long as the ads are VMS% centric and convey a proper message).o  2 Till then, stay tuned to this space for criticism.  F I notice that Keith Parris didn't take me up on my legitimate offer toE work up some advertising copy last weekend to lay on carly's doorstepnD on Monday morning, a la 'I've worked with them all and nothing is asF robust for DR as OpenVMS'. If potential customers can believe the liesE Microsoft tells, there's hope that they could become convinced by theh4 truth of VMS excellence if they only heard about it.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 11:08:59 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>a& Subject: Re: Portents of Itanium death0 Message-ID: <bdegnr$9pb$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Rob Young wrote:a > In article <9uacnRGAn7eE9WSjXTWJkA@metrocast.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:o >  > + >>  If so, shouldn't we expect that 2.8 GHzI >>8 >>>Xeon 4-way to shoot past a 4-way Opteron quite a bit? >>K >>I'm guessing around 100K tpmC, if the memory speed also increases.  WhichrM >>means that anyone who needs performance specifically in the 83K - 100K tpmCsN >>band won't have Opteron as an option until its performance improves as well.M >>For 82K tpmC or below, of course, Opteron's price/performance kills Xeon's.  >> >  > 9 > 	Right.  So in a week, Opteron has some lingering price = > 	performance advantages in some segments ($/metric in 4-CPU & > 	space).  Not where AMD wants to be. >    How did you work that out ?????s  4 Xeon MP currently does 842 SPECint2000 at 2 GHZ when0 compared with a 1.8 GHZ Opteron at 1170 SPECint.  2 So a 2.8 GHz Xeon MP might acheive the same single5 CPU integer performance as a 1.8 GHz Opteron assuming-4 that its SPECint results scales linearly with clock.  3 This also holds for 4 way SPECrate results as well.w  2 For FP the Opteron has a big lead, 1219 vs 699 and0 it is highly unlikely that the frequency hike is1 going to make Xeon MP competitive with Opteron on  single CPU FP.  2 On rateFP the differential is worse for Xeon 22 vs6 49 for the Opteron again with Operon being benchmarked using 32 bit OS and compilers.    0 So in the 1-4 way space that is intels bread and0 butter the Opteron running with 32 bit compilers, and a 32 bit OS is the same performance as a2 future Xeon but cheaper on Int. And much faster on FP and also cheaper.  3 Only a spindoctor would conclude that this displaysb4 a lingering price performance advantage for Opteron.   Regards6 Andrew Harrison7   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jun 2003 12:30:10 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)e& Subject: Re: Portents of Itanium death3 Message-ID: <0N0RB9lQOB2k@eisner.encompasserve.org>o   In article <bdegnr$9pb$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: > Rob Young wrote:   > 2 > So in the 1-4 way space that is intels bread and2 > butter the Opteron running with 32 bit compilers. > and a 32 bit OS is the same performance as a4 > future Xeon but cheaper on Int. And much faster on > FP and also cheaper. >   7 	Granted, the Xeon MP won't be up there with Opteron fpa: 	results - give one to Opteron.  But on integer, you cross: 	product lines on the Xeon side and a single CPU Xeon does 	nearly as well as Opteron:l  N http://www.specbench.org/cpu2000/results/res2003q2/cpu2000-20030407-02060.html  C 	The next spin on Xeon with 1 MB cache should do as well.  Will seeyG 	how well the E7501 boxes do.  That 1 MB E7501 Xeon will list for $690.s  5 > Only a spindoctor would conclude that this displayst6 > a lingering price performance advantage for Opteron.  1 	AMD is being punished in several directions now. ? 	Price and performance-wise for desktop is brutal news for AMD:.  1 http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/3/31377.html3  O "Those [Athlon] prices indicate a bit of trouble for AMD. The Pentium 4 2.8GHz lK generally matches or outperforms the Athlon XP 3200+, and the P4 2.8GHz is bF selling for around $275, or over $160 less than the 3200+. Unless AMD N recognizes that its ratings system has been blown up by advances in Pentium 4 L clock-for-clock performance and lowers prices accordingly, the question for I many PC enthusiasts may no longer be whether to buy an Intel or AMD, but m$ simply which Pentium 4 chip to buy."    B 	It may not get as ugly Xeon vs. Opteron.  But it doesn't have to,: 	Xeon owns the 1-4 CPU space and will for quite some time.   				Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 12:01:27 +0100 + From: Rok Vidmar <Rok.Vidmar@NUK.Uni-Lj.Si>2! Subject: Re: SIMH V3.0-0 releasedo$ Message-ID: <3efaeeac@NUK.Uni-Lj.Si>   Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann wrote:( > Did someone  test VAX-AXP.EXE on V7.3? >  > Here's my result:e >  > sim> boot cpua >  >  > KA655-B V5.3, VMB 2.7 ! > Performing normal system tests.eB > 40..39..38..37..36..35..34..33..32..31..30..29..28..27..26..25..B > 24..23..22..21..20..19..18..17..16..15..14..13..12..11..10..09.. > 08..3 > Exception in interrupt or exception, PC: 2004FF57t0 > %SYSTEM-W-UNWIND, unwind currently in progress  O   Compaq C V6.4-005 on OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-1 (I had to change rbuf in PDP11_XQ.Cb from signed to unsigned char):   VAX simulator V3.0-0 NVR: buffering file in memoryn   KA655-B V5.3, VMB 2.7e Performing normal system tests.o@ 40..39..38..37..36..35..34..33..32..31..30..29..28..27..26..25..@ 24..23..22..21..20..19..18..17..16..15..14..13..12..11..10..09.. 08..07..06..05..04..03.. Tests completed.  >>>b dua0:i (BOOT/R5:0 DUA0h      2.. -DUA0w ?42 NOSUCHFILE, DUA   . HALT instruction, PC: 00000C1A (MOVL (R11),SP)   My ini file:   load -r ka655.bine att nvr nvram.bin  set ptr disabled set ptp disabled set lpt disabled set rl disabledo set ts disableda set tq disabledS set rq0 ra82 set rq1 ra82 att rq0 dra1:[000000]lda1.dskd att rq1 dra1:[000000]lda2.dskr set cpu 64m  boot cpu   -- - Regards,  D Rok Vidmar                       Internet:  rok.vidmar@nuk.uni-lj.si; National and University Library  Phone:     +386 1 421 5461j; Turjaska 1, SI-1000 Ljubljana    Fax:       +386 1 421 5464n Slovenia   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 19:19:07 +0800t- From: David B Sneddon <dbsneddon@bigpond.com>o Subject: Re: SWXCRMGR Update6 Message-ID: <0HH300FTU6AQ4T@mta02bw.email.bigpond.com>  0 On Wed, 25 Jun 2003 23:51, Adrian Birkett wrote: > All, >pD > Thaks for your replies to an earlier post. The raid initializationG > procedure has now been going for 8 days with 3 sets still outstanding F > (2*4disk sets and 1*3disk set - each disk = 2GB) with 72, 78 and 96%+ > completion status at the time of writing.y >sJ > I agree with the customer that this cannot be normal behaviour, however,F > I am using TNG Console Manager with the serial line connected into aJ > terminal server and over the network as the box is in Holland and I'm in	 > the UK.  > C > Can anyone give me some 'real-world' examples of having used thiseF > procedure and give me an idea of the times involved. The customer isI > getting (quite rightly) a bit p****d off as we still have to instal VMSh& > and suchlike once this is completed. >r > aTdHvAaNnKcSeo >o > Adek  I I remember my first use of the swxcrmgr utility running on a VT terminal.oC After about the 10% stage you could see what it was doing to update D the screen which must have been doing an update after every I/O.  ItE got slower and slower.  You could see the cursor going crazy all overtC screen.  Doing the same thing using a graphics monitor the time wasa8 about 40 minutes as opposed to about 12 hours on the VT.) An absolutely dreadful piece of software.    Regards, Dave.: --  I David B Sneddon (dbs)  OpenVMS Systems Programmer   dbsneddon@bigpond.com I Sneddo's quick guide ...          http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/<I DBS freeware at ...   http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/software.htmrI "Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans" Lennon    ------------------------------   Date: 26 Jun 2003 08:02:58 GMT3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann)a! Subject: Re: Tadpole Alpha-Book 1.0 Message-ID: <bde9bi$e9c$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  w In article <01KXIT8D9QOQAOKN0V@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes: 6 >Does anyone here actually own a Tadpole Alpha-Book 1?   Here we have one.g  3 >What is the latest SUPPORTED version of VMS on it?    Don't know.i  F >What is the latest version of VMS that anyone has actually run on it?   V7.2  ! >Does it run the 21066/LCA4 chip?e   Don't know.s  J >Now, the most important question: Is it possible to plug in an LK401 and   >have everything work as normal?  O I have a docking station and there I plugged it an LK-keyboard with no problem.e  9 >What ALPHA (or VAX) does it roughly compare to in speed?v  % Don't know but it is relatively slow.    Regards,    Christoph Gartmannt  H -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, Germany                                           |H +------------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/menue.html -------------+   ------------------------------   Date: 26 Jun 2003 08:08:48 GMT3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann) ! Subject: Re: Tadpole Alpha-Book 1i0 Message-ID: <bde9mg$e9c$2@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  U In article <3EFA24C8.40405@NelsonUSA.com>, Alan Frisbie <Abuse@NelsonUSA.com> writes: 9 >Does anyone know where I can get a spare battery for it?C  K We have a company here in Freiburg that opens almost every battery case andoI will replace the cells inside (http://www.macbatt.de/, site is i German).yL Perhaps you find a similar shop in your area? If not, I might try to arrange
 something.   Regards,    Christoph Gartmannd  H -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, Germany                                           |H +------------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/menue.html -------------+   ------------------------------   Date: 26 Jun 2003 08:11:00 GMT3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann)o! Subject: Re: Tadpole Alpha-Book 1e0 Message-ID: <bde9qk$e9c$3@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>   In article <rdeininger-2506032142490001@user-105n90q.dialup.mindspring.com>, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes:nK >I think the problem with the Tadpole is disk space.  The largest qualified>6 >disk won't hold, (or barely holds) a VMS system disk.  P Mine has a 4 GB disk. It uses a 2,5" disk in some plastic case. It shouldn't be G a big deal to replace the disk with an IDE drive and a SCSI-IDE-bridge._   Regards,    Christoph Gartmannu  H -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, Germany                                           |H +------------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/menue.html -------------+   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 11:40:10 +0200 (MET)i9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>t! Subject: Re: Tadpole Alpha-Book 1,; Message-ID: <01KXJRYSUA4IAM67GX@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>a  : > Does anyone know where I can get a spare battery for it?  3 Contact Jan Eden at jaREMOVEe@tadREMOVEpole.co.uk .g  G I don't know if they sale batteries, but they might know where you can u get one.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 06:24:51 -0400p2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)! Subject: Re: Tadpole Alpha-Book 1cL Message-ID: <rdeininger-2606030624510001@user-uinj4di.dialup.mindspring.com>  : In article <mLsKa.25203$hV.1274238@twister.austin.rr.com>,, LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (leslie) wrote:  4 >Robert Deininger (rdeininger@mindspring.com) wrote:D >: I think the problem with the Tadpole is disk space.  The largest B >: qualified disk won't hold, (or barely holds) a VMS system disk. >: > : >But an external SCSI disk can be used as the system disk.  I Are there any _supported_ external disks?  I don't know; I've only seen a  Tadpole once or twice.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 14:15:29 GMT + From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (leslie) ! Subject: Re: Tadpole Alpha-Book 1-9 Message-ID: <5eDKa.32560$xg5.21141@twister.austin.rr.com>a  3 Robert Deininger (rdeininger@mindspring.com) wrote:H< : In article <mLsKa.25203$hV.1274238@twister.austin.rr.com>,. : LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (leslie) wrote: : 6 : >Robert Deininger (rdeininger@mindspring.com) wrote:F : >: I think the problem with the Tadpole is disk space.  The largest D : >: qualified disk won't hold, (or barely holds) a VMS system disk. : >: : >w< : >But an external SCSI disk can be used as the system disk. : I : Are there any _supported_ external disks?  I don't know; I've only seeni : a Tadpole once or twice. :=F I don't recall exactly what external disk we used, perhaps a 2.1 Gbyte Seagate.   ------------------------------   Date: 26 Jun 2003 13:30:06 GMT3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann) ! Subject: Re: Tadpole Alpha-Book 1g0 Message-ID: <bdesgu$lvc$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>   In article <rdeininger-2606030624510001@user-uinj4di.dialup.mindspring.com>, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes:.; >In article <mLsKa.25203$hV.1274238@twister.austin.rr.com>, - >LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (leslie) wrote:J >25 >>Robert Deininger (rdeininger@mindspring.com) wrote:sE >>: I think the problem with the Tadpole is disk space.  The largest DC >>: qualified disk won't hold, (or barely holds) a VMS system disk.m >>:i >>; >>But an external SCSI disk can be used as the system disk.t > J >Are there any _supported_ external disks?  I don't know; I've only seen a >Tadpole once or twice.,  I Most SCSI disks should work. It is not a matter of the Alphabook, it is aP matter of OpenVMS.   Regards,    Christoph Gartmanni  H -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, Germany                                           |H +------------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/menue.html -------------+   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 15:14:04 GMTs9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>r! Subject: Re: Tadpole Alpha-Book 1I2 Message-ID: <05EKa.3438$zA2.1769@news.cpqcorp.net>  5 "Alan Frisbie" <Abuse@NelsonUSA.com> wrote in message $ news:3EFA24C8.40405@NelsonUSA.com... > Phillip Helbig wrote:09 > > Does anyone here actually own a Tadpole Alpha-Book 1?S >cI > > What is the latest version of VMS that anyone has actually run on it?4 >d > V7.2 >.   V7.3-1 here    >vL > > Now, the most important question: Is it possible to plug in an LK401 and# > > have everything work as normal?i >i  C LK411 - Yes (the LK401 is a old serial KB).  It will auto-sense theiI connection of an LK411.  The crippled/crap keyboard on the laptop was thee hardest thing to get right.d >o: > Does anyone know where I can get a spare battery for it? >p  D Mine bit the dust a long time ago and always needs to be plugged in.   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jun 2003 08:44:55 -0700$ From: gspamtackett@yahoo.com (Galen)! Subject: Re: Tadpole Alpha-Book 1o= Message-ID: <bdc65a53.0306260744.16b53ad5@posting.google.com>o   > " > Does it run the 21066/LCA4 chip?  F Al Meier of HP tells me that this is correct. BTW, he has an Alphabook running 7.3-1.   > : > What ALPHA (or VAX) does it roughly compare to in speed? >   F Al says it's approximately a Jensen (DECpc 150 axp, AKA DEC 2000/300).  + Al says you can write him for further info:$   al.meier@hp.comn  7 According to Al, Fred Kleinsorge also has an Alphabook.e   Hope this helps!   Galen3   ---n  9 To e-mail me just remove the spam from my e-mail address.G   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 15:10:01 GMT 9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>e! Subject: Re: Tadpole Alpha-Book 1e2 Message-ID: <d1EKa.3437$eK2.1427@news.cpqcorp.net>   V7.3-1  H Not many around (never were).  Since the HW was developed externally, itL will reach a stage where little things like firmware get too out of date.  IK have one in my office, that I occasionally power up (it has V7.3-1 on it) -aB I use it when I go to a number of customer sites to bring along my development environment.    6 "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl> wrote in message/ news:bdconv$rj5df$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de...e >rJ > "Phillip Helbig" <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> schreef in bericht7 > news:01KXIUOZ2XFQAOKN0V@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com...c8 > > > What is the latest SUPPORTED version of VMS on it? > >  > >    According to the SPD: > >F7 > > OpenVMS Alpha Version 7.3-1 is the final version tot" > > support the following systems:  > >     DEC 2000 Models 300/500 > >     Tadpole AlphaBook 1 >-G > It seems about the "right" time to drop support for the 2000 300/500.hD > The Tadpole was never a big seller, and not even a |d|i|g|i|t|a|l|J > product.  I'm surprised that 7.3-1 is still supported on it.  Why hasn't' > Tadpole support been dropped earlier?S >cA > Is there something about 7.3-2 which would make Tadpole supportTG > difficult, or was it just decided that it wasn't worth bothering withT
 > anymore? >i >i >oK > Just guessing here: certifying systems for a particular VMS version is ansF > expensive task. So support is dropped for systems that are no longerG > commercially useful. So 7.3-2 might work on a Tadpole, but in case ofnJ > problems you're on yor own. Similar to running VMS on a white-box Alpha, > right?F > Unless the Tadpole requires very specific items, like a bootstrap orA > graphics device driver, that are withdrawn it might still work.r >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 10:04:24 +0100yO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> % Subject: Re: Who can you trust, then?o0 Message-ID: <bdecuo$8ia$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   JF Mezei wrote:  > Greg Cagle wrote:T > < >>HP. As a change, I was thinking it might be interesting to: >>hear about vendors who CAN be trusted. Who would you bet6 >>your career and your future (and your company's) on? >  > P > Some IBMers who know me would get a heart attack, but right now, if you ask meK > which vendor I woudl trust most, I would have to say IBM. Then comes Sun.t > P > Why ? Because they have a vested interest in competing with their own products$ > and making their own products win. > O > And I would trust Dell because they are focused on one thing: building wintel.N > crap. Their big dilemans isn't between Unix and Windows, it is between IntelP > and AMD, both of which are essentially the same for the customer. Dell is likeN > a pocket calculator maker. Nothing fancy in what it does, but it executes it > very well. >   C Dell don't build anything. Actually thats not entirely true they do-B the front bezel on their servers but the rest is designed to their spec and built for them.  ? They are really just a large distributor and in that sense theyi= are less wedded to Wintel than HP because they don't have anyc  major R&D commitments to Wintel.     > I > HP not only has the bad baggage, untrustworthy management who refuse to I > mention VMS publicly, but tell VMS customers"don't worry, we're just astO > committed to VMS as we were to Alpha", but it is also difficult to know if HPiP > would prefer to be a wintel company or an enterprise company.  IBM was able toM > clearly show it was an enterprise company even though it does make wintels.sP > But HP isn't able to provide itself with a clear, stable image of what type of > company it wants to be.e > P > One day, Carly talks about printers. Where are Centronics and Epson today, the# > former "monopolies" in printing ?a >   < In terms of sharholder value Carly should have the following priorities.v   1.	Printers (well toner really)                              2.     Services-      " 3 and 4 PC and enterprise systems.  ? Why major on products that currently and historically have beenm< sold at a negative magin and rely on being subsidised by the. profits from the sales of printer consumables.   regardss Andrew HarrisoneH > The next day, Carly talks about wintel and how it will rule the world. > A > The next day, Carly acknowledges she has HP-UX, but also Linux.  > M > And twice a year, she also acknowledges having Tandem. (but never publicqlyP > acknowledges VMS). > L > To be trustable, a company must have a single image, not one which changes > with the trade rag winds.v >  > M > Interesting that Carly seems extremely well aware that image is everything._N > Her presentation in pictures etc clearly show that she goes to great lengthsO > to appear "well". Ironic that she has not a clue on how to make her company's 
 > image work.  > N > Unless, of course, she has decided that HP is to be a wintel/printer companyL > with the enterprise stuff just a necessary evil that subsidizes her wintel% > future. (Sounds a lot like Compaq).c   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 17:21:59 GMTd" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG0 Subject: WRQ Reflection and DEC escape sequences0 Message-ID: <00A21F6E.63BC8F02@SendSpamHere.ORG>  M I'm wondering if I can get some assistance from those of you using loathesomee1 PeeCees and the WRQ Reflection terminal emulator.   L I've encountered an issue at a customer site where Reflection is used with a9 number of "home-grown" "terminal graphic" menu systems.     L The problem stems from the improper formation of the DECSEL sequence (Selec-L tive erase in line).  The proper form is <ESC>[?2K.  Reflection, improperly,L responds to <ESC>[2?K.  I cannot get beyond WRQ's first line of interference! when I call them to discuss this.o    4 Here's a simple DCL procedure to demonstrate this.     $ SET NOVERIFY $!++H $! Execute this procedure with one of two arguments: DECSEL or BADSEL.  A $! For example:  $ @TEST-ESCAPE.COM DECSEL  (this uses <ESC>[?2K)t $! lE $! This procedure should clear the screen and output a prompt at line E $! 15 on the screen.  Enter data such as: 1234567890 and hit <return>"E $! The prompt should be redisplayed at line 15 with the previous dataeE $! (eg. 1234567890) cleared away.  You can then enter new data.  This E $! procedure will continue in a loop until contrl-Z is entered at the.
 $! prompt. $!2 $! Now, repeat this test with the argument BADSEL.B $! For example:  $ @TEST-ESCAPE.COM BADSEL  (this uses <ESC>[2?K)	 $!E $! This procedure should clear the screen and output a prompt at line E $! 15 on the screen.  Enter data such as: 1234567890 and hit <return>eE $! The prompt should be redisplayed at line 15 with the previous data F $! (eg. 1234567890) still displayed.  You can then enter new data atopF $! of the previous data.  This procedure will continue in a loop until+ $! an uppercase X is entered at the prompt.e $!++ $ ESC[0,8] = 27d& $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "''ESC'[2J''ESC'[H" $ DECSEL = "''ESC'[?2K"C $ BADSEL = "''ESC'[2?K"1 $)d $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "''ESC'[10;1H''F$fao("TEST WITH ESCAPE SEQUENCE: <ESC>!AS",F$extract(1,-1,&P1))'" $w $ 100$:P\ $ READ/END=200$/PROMPT="''ESC'[0m''ESC'[15;1H''&P1'Please enter selection: " SYS$COMMAND SEL4 $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "''ESC'[20;1HYou entered: ''SEL'" $ GOTO 100$l $ 200$: EXIT      L If you try this procedure and reproduce the problem, and it bothers you thatK your Reflection is not faithfully emulating a VT, feel free to report it tow! WRQ under your support agreement.l   Thanks   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMe            v5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.350 ************************