1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 27 Jun 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 351       Contents:* Re: access a saveset from windows or linux* Re: access a saveset from windows or linux* Re: access a saveset from windows or linux* Re: access a saveset from windows or linuxP Re: databases on VMS (was: RE: Hewlett-Packard said to be interestedin buying so% Re: DEC C/TCPWARE/globalvalue problem % Re: DEC C/TCPWARE/globalvalue problem  Re: EMC on VMS Re: EMC on VMS Re: EMC on VMS Re: EMC on VMS Re: EMC on VMS# Re: EVA-5000 performance monitoring P Re: Hewlett-Packard said to be interested in buying software and services companP Re: Hewlett-Packard said to be interested in buying software and services companP Re: Hewlett-Packard said to be interested in buying software and services companP Re: Hewlett-Packard said to be interested in buying software and services compan Re: HP to drop hpux? Re: HP to drop hpux? Re: HP to drop hpux? Re: HP to drop hpux? Re: HP to drop hpux? Re: HP to drop hpux? Re: HP to drop hpux? Re: HP to drop hpux? Re: HP to drop hpux? Re: HP to drop hpux? Re: HP to drop hpux? Re: HP to drop hpux? Re: HP to drop hpux? Re: HP to drop hpux?4 Re: LAT SMG coded application to Telnet-based screen: Re: New Business View Magazine for HP Enterprise Customers Re: Patches? Re: physical drive replacement2 Re: SET HOST/LAT and cut and paste with DECwindows2 Re: SET HOST/LAT and cut and paste with DECwindows2 Re: SET HOST/LAT and cut and paste with DECwindows Re: SIMH V3.0-0 released Re: SIMH V3.0-0 released Re: SIMH V3.0-0 released Re: SWXCRMGR Update  Testing network on a cluster  Re: Testing network on a cluster  Re: Testing network on a cluster TK50 Need Help Re: TK50 Need Help Re: TK50 Need Help Re: TK50 Need Help Re: TK50 Need Help Re: TK50 Need Help Re: TK50 Need Help Re: TK50 Need Help" Username/passwords for SMTP Server& Re: Username/passwords for SMTP Server+ Re: WRQ Reflection and DEC escape sequences + Re: WRQ Reflection and DEC escape sequences + Re: WRQ Reflection and DEC escape sequences + Re: WRQ Reflection and DEC escape sequences  X11 proxy on VMS ?) zip program that handles multi-dot files? - Re: zip program that handles multi-dot files? - Re: zip program that handles multi-dot files? - Re: zip program that handles multi-dot files?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 26 Jun 2003 12:45:26 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 3 Subject: Re: access a saveset from windows or linux 3 Message-ID: <F$zBatejivLH@eisner.encompasserve.org>   g In article <a7234bb1.0306260723.74da1202@posting.google.com>, timasmith@hotmail.com (Tim Smith) writes: H > Is there a utility that can extract one or all files from a saveset onH > windows or unix (linux).  I have a number of local saveset backups andA > want to pull a file out of it sometimes - but I am remote on my  > linux/windows XP laptop.  C Should we presume you already have methods to read VMS files if you - _did_ restore them onto your non-VMS system ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 20:30:12 +0200 + From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl> 3 Subject: Re: access a saveset from windows or linux 5 Message-ID: <bdfe3q$scf9r$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>   6 "Tim Smith" <timasmith@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht7 news:a7234bb1.0306260723.74da1202@posting.google.com... H > Is there a utility that can extract one or all files from a saveset onH > windows or unix (linux).  I have a number of local saveset backups andA > want to pull a file out of it sometimes - but I am remote on my  > linux/windows XP laptop. >  > thanks >  > Tim   L I started work on a Visual C program to read savesets on Windows. ExtractingK files in many cases does not make sense. But plain .DAT or .TXT files would  be interesting. H The problem is that the saveset lay out is not published. So you have to. look at a dump and reverse engineer the specs.H Send me an Email if you want the source that I have. It reads the header info and the filenames.    Hans   PS  $ remove .nieuw from the email address   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jun 2003 13:47:26 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 3 Subject: Re: access a saveset from windows or linux 3 Message-ID: <eMIQbeWfta9B@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <bdfe3q$scf9r$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>, "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl> writes:   J > The problem is that the saveset lay out is not published. So you have to0 > look at a dump and reverse engineer the specs.  H Look at the earlier documentation, VMS V3.* or so.  Subsequent additions% seem to be in a fairly orderly style.    ------------------------------   Date: 26 Jun 2003 18:57 CDT ' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) 3 Subject: Re: access a saveset from windows or linux - Message-ID: <26JUN200318574033@gerg.tamu.edu>   e In article <bdfe3q$scf9r$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>, "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl> writes...  } 7 }"Tim Smith" <timasmith@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht 8 }news:a7234bb1.0306260723.74da1202@posting.google.com...I }> Is there a utility that can extract one or all files from a saveset on I }> windows or unix (linux).  I have a number of local saveset backups and B }> want to pull a file out of it sometimes - but I am remote on my }> linux/windows XP laptop.  }>	 }> thanks  }> }> Tim } M }I started work on a Visual C program to read savesets on Windows. Extracting L }files in many cases does not make sense. But plain .DAT or .TXT files would }be interesting.I }The problem is that the saveset lay out is not published. So you have to / }look at a dump and reverse engineer the specs. I }Send me an Email if you want the source that I have. It reads the header  }info and the filenames. }  }Hans   G There is an exsisting program that does this, although I don't know how  recent the latest version is.   E It is called, unsurprisingly, vmsbackup. You can find a version of it / here: http://garbo.uwasa.fi/unix/vmsbackup.html   K There may be newer versions out there somewhere - I didn't look any farther K than this. Google is your friend. A search on "unix vmsbackup" or something  similar gives many hits.   --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 19:34:42 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> Y Subject: Re: databases on VMS (was: RE: Hewlett-Packard said to be interestedin buying so ' Message-ID: <3EFB9122.7B2B7C61@fsi.net>    John Smith wrote:  > 3 > "Michael Unger" <unger@decus.de> wrote in message 1 > news:bdf4oh$rlvv1$1@ID-152801.news.dfncis.de... / > > On 26-Jun-2003 11:56, Phillip Helbig wrote:  > > H > > >> > HP could, I suppose, but that would definitely put major crimps	 > in it's > > > >> > relationships with Oracle and SAP.  Not a good thing. > > >>D > > >> Absolutlely correct. If HP did that, Larry would kill Rdb and > OracleC > > >> on VMS faster than you could say 'Sayonara' (the name of his 	 > yacht). G > > >> Goodbye $2-4B annual VMS sales, goodbye $500-800MM in VMS annual : > > >> profits (depending upon whose numbers you believe). > > >>H > > >> And while we're on it.....HP, and VMS specifically, is hostage toH > > >> Oracle for without the last remaining major commercial relational > dbmsG > > >> available on VMS, VMS's goose is well and truly cooked. MySQL is  > nice, " > > >> but it isn't Oracle or Rdb. > > > G > > > Though of course Rdb customers provide revenue to HP because they  > buy G > > > hardware and software from HP, they also provide a huge amount of C > > > revenue to Oracle.  Whether Larry would cut his own stream to  > spite HP I > > > don't know.  > > > F > > > In any case, Rdb on VMS shows no signs of going away.  While the > number@ > > > of customers might not be large in absolute terms, they do > generate a' > > > lot of revenue for Oracle and HP.  > > >  > > > [...]  > > E > > What about Cache? I recently noticed it is available for VMS. How  > many) > > (commercial) customers really use it?  > H > If I'm not mistaken, Cache is really DSM (Mumps) or a look-alike underE > the hood. Was/is(?) big in the medical field during the 80's. Think 9 > Progress (db and 4GL combined) and you've got the idea.   2 It's actually the successor to InterSystems MUMPS.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 22:56:10 +0100 9 From: "covendotartdottalk21dotcom" <postmaster@127.0.0.1> . Subject: Re: DEC C/TCPWARE/globalvalue problem3 Message-ID: <SQWdnctJP5Zh9majXTWJkA@brightview.com>   G "John E. Malmberg" <Malmberg@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq.hp> wrote in message , news:htiKa.3345$xC1.1062@news.cpqcorp.net...# > covendotartdottalk21dotcom wrote:  > > Mark: > > (hoping to try out suggestions at work tomorrow if the $Ford_motor_vehicle K > > doesn't keep on spouting "EAC [Electronic ACcelerator] Fail" every time  the L > > ignition is switched on, much less fail at $exceeding_speed_limit_MPH in > > lane 2 of the motorway...) > G > Open gas cap to equalize pressure and then close it before activating . > ignition and see if that makes a difference.  J A call from the dealership today says that (and I'm not sure whether, like the D last "fix", this is because they're trying it to see if it fixes the problem,B or because they've definitely determined that this is the cause) a replacement H module and/or part of the wiring loom has been ordered, because for some reason5 the male/female connectors weren't making a snug fit.   J Bad batch?  Design fault?  who knows.  All I hope is that they get it doneL soon, because the courtesy car doesn't have (and $deity knows I coped before without) aircon!   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 23:10:36 +0100 9 From: "covendotartdottalk21dotcom" <postmaster@127.0.0.1> . Subject: Re: DEC C/TCPWARE/globalvalue problem3 Message-ID: <ifudnet5884B8majXTWJkw@brightview.com>   G "John E. Malmberg" <Malmberg@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq.hp> wrote in message , news:DFiKa.3347$GA1.1242@news.cpqcorp.net...E > As to if they work or not, it depends on what you are trying to do.  > H > The three different codings still produce a link time constant, and ifJ > you are trying to do something that requires a compile time constant, of > course it will not work.  F Although I bought a book (cough) years ago on compiler design, I never got around to reading it.   I Is this likely to be just the DEC C (and possibly VAX C) compiler(s) that L require case statements to have compile-time constants, but (e.g.) Micro$oftK and various U*ix wannabes/contenders don't?  Where would this be documented H that DEC C (rightly/wrongly) imposes this constraint?  (I don't have theE manuals to hand, and I often find that knowing what to look up in the  indices L is the main problem - you don't know what you're looking for much less where to look for it)   I The IF..ELSE IF...ELSE IF...ELSE IF construct did work (although I accept J you may have misgivings as to whether or not things "seem" to work becauseE of the use of /STAND=VAXC) - I had success in connecting, logging in, G changing directory and getting a directory listing from the remote U*ix  box.  I So, I've got about 1/3 of the FTP stuff implemented now (as I worked from F home, and omitted to take a copy of the TCPWARE programmer's referenceJ home with me;  had a go at guessing the params for its FTP_PRINT_DIRECTORY function, but got that wrong!).   F All I need now (apart from implementing about another 10 "logical" FTPG functions) is a routine to parse the directory listing (of the specific H version of Slowlartis running on the Sun box that I'm doing this initialK development for);  I've no idea whether or not U*ix boxes in general return K the same "ls {-l}" format, because I think that without being able to REXEC K (which might be disabled for obscurity^W security reasons), you wouldn't be G able to tell what U*ix flavour was running on the remote box, much less H which version, and whether or not "ls {-l}" output changes significantly2 between flavours/versions - although I'd hope not!    I > I was just pointing out that the VAXC globalvalue notation is easier to ? > read and understand than the two equivalent ANSI C notations.   I Agreed.  I got the impression that you weren't sure if the ANSI notations J would work, so was just letting you know for your own benefit, should this come up in future.      # Thanks for your sage advice though.    Mark   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jun 2003 13:51:45 -07001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)  Subject: Re: EMC on VMS = Message-ID: <cf15391e.0306261251.3c5fbb89@posting.google.com>   f young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote in message news:<7AwT9yEDoxfJ@eisner.encompasserve.org>...9 > The Symmetrix has its own substitute for READL, WRITEL.   E Then why not support SCSI READL/WRITEL, even if it really is emulated F internally using their own substitute mechanism?  How hard could it beA technically to just make it do the right thing for these two SCSI F commands?  READL/WRITEL are part of the SCSI standard.  Not supporting@ them makes our VMS customers doubt EMC's depth of committment to support for the VMS platform.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 17:10:51 -0400 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Re: EMC on VMS 2 Message-ID: <alydnemgPcv8_GajXTWJhw@metrocast.net>  > "Keith Parris" <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message7 news:cf15391e.0306261251.3c5fbb89@posting.google.com... 8 > young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote in message/ news:<7AwT9yEDoxfJ@eisner.encompasserve.org>... ; > > The Symmetrix has its own substitute for READL, WRITEL.  > G > Then why not support SCSI READL/WRITEL, even if it really is emulated H > internally using their own substitute mechanism?  How hard could it beC > technically to just make it do the right thing for these two SCSI H > commands?  READL/WRITEL are part of the SCSI standard.  Not supportingB > them makes our VMS customers doubt EMC's depth of committment to > support for the VMS platform.   H One might suspect because they are using those features themselves.  ButK it's also likely true that EMC doesn't consider VMS all that important:  if H VMS's customers consider EMC storage to be important, perhaps VMS should consider accommodating it.   - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jun 2003 16:58:11 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: Re: EMC on VMS 3 Message-ID: <JF9vOVYsiOGO@eisner.encompasserve.org>   q In article <cf15391e.0306261251.3c5fbb89@posting.google.com>, keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) writes: h > young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote in message news:<7AwT9yEDoxfJ@eisner.encompasserve.org>...: >> The Symmetrix has its own substitute for READL, WRITEL. > G > Then why not support SCSI READL/WRITEL, even if it really is emulated H > internally using their own substitute mechanism?  How hard could it beC > technically to just make it do the right thing for these two SCSI H > commands?  READL/WRITEL are part of the SCSI standard.  Not supportingB > them makes our VMS customers doubt EMC's depth of committment to > support for the VMS platform.   ( Or doubt their committment to standards.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 19:18:31 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>  Subject: Re: EMC on VMS ' Message-ID: <3EFB8D57.F5790C71@fsi.net>    Keith Parris wrote:  > h > young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote in message news:<7AwT9yEDoxfJ@eisner.encompasserve.org>...; > > The Symmetrix has its own substitute for READL, WRITEL.  > G > Then why not support SCSI READL/WRITEL, even if it really is emulated H > internally using their own substitute mechanism?  How hard could it beC > technically to just make it do the right thing for these two SCSI H > commands?  READL/WRITEL are part of the SCSI standard.  Not supportingB > them makes our VMS customers doubt EMC's depth of committment to > support for the VMS platform.   H Um, careful there, Keith! There's a lotta stuff VMS management does that; makes VMS customers question *THEIR* commitment to OpenVMS!    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 19:19:53 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>  Subject: Re: EMC on VMS ' Message-ID: <3EFB8DA9.B34E6A21@fsi.net>    Larry Kilgallen wrote: > s > In article <cf15391e.0306261251.3c5fbb89@posting.google.com>, keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) writes: j > > young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote in message news:<7AwT9yEDoxfJ@eisner.encompasserve.org>...< > >> The Symmetrix has its own substitute for READL, WRITEL. > > I > > Then why not support SCSI READL/WRITEL, even if it really is emulated J > > internally using their own substitute mechanism?  How hard could it beE > > technically to just make it do the right thing for these two SCSI J > > commands?  READL/WRITEL are part of the SCSI standard.  Not supportingD > > them makes our VMS customers doubt EMC's depth of committment to! > > support for the VMS platform.  > * > Or doubt their committment to standards.  C The bulk of EMC's customer base is likely to be Windows servers, in < which realm standards are whatever Bill Gates says they are.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 19:46:51 GMT & From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net>, Subject: Re: EVA-5000 performance monitoring8 Message-ID: <q7jmfv8m6obpp2fhiln8anpsqe841k79ke@4ax.com>  @ On 22 Jun 2003 06:11:13 -0700, kuff@tessco.com (Hal Kuff) wrote:  G >Thanxs for the reply, in most cases you are correct.  Someone (I think D >it was Ken Bates) once said that you could run a SuperComputer on a< >floppy drive if the I/O queue depth never exceeded '1' .... > D >My curiosity was what the EVA is actually doing... apparently thereE >are no metrics available that show what the throughput is of a given D >unit at the EVA level.... We can measure from the applications side? >the effect of all caches and buffers, that is to say that that 7 >production chain is very very efficient on OpenVMS....  > D >Unit hotspots measured from the OpenVMS side would be misleading as1 >the effect of the caches would skew the numbers.  > F >My interest extends to what the requirement would be for bandwidth toE >run Continuous Availability on the EVA and looking at that bandwidth D >what the demand from a given unit was....  Right now you're kind ofF >forced to say that the bandwidth between two EVA units in replication< >mode would be, say 80% the throughput of an HSV-110 pair...  K Ah, you're trying to calculate bandwidth requirements for Continuous Access  EVA replication?!!  F That's on a per-LUN basis.  If you've got, say, a 1TB LUN for databaseI activity, you still don't know what the bandwidth requirements are unless K you know how much WRITE activity occurs on that application (i.e., how many F GB in writes/updates per day).  I suppose some good stats from the EVAG would simplify this.  But the application (or OS-level counters) may be I able to give you some of this information.  I know that ECP allows you to F look at the data tables to see reads vs writes that the data collector sees.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 15:14:16 -0400 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>Y Subject: Re: Hewlett-Packard said to be interested in buying software and services compan 2 Message-ID: <bmGdnY2m6veT22ajXTWJkw@metrocast.net>  @ "Robert Klute" <robert_klute_removethis@hp.com> wrote in message2 news:i8amfv8ih0aqgcm372kkfiks9pdej1isb5@4ax.com...H > On 26 Jun 2003 08:08:07 -0500, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org > (Bob Koehler) wrote: > K > >In article <eVuKa.30358$bRt.14733@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, % "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes: I > >> Absolutlely correct. If HP did that, Larry would kill Rdb and Oracle I > >> on VMS faster than you could say 'Sayonara' (the name of his yacht). E > >> Goodbye $2-4B annual VMS sales, goodbye $500-800MM in VMS annual 8 > >> profits (depending upon whose numbers you believe). > > J > >   I know its hard for some folks to believe, but out in the real worldF > >   there are a hell of a lot of computers running applications that9 > >   don't have and don't need Oracle or any other DBMS.  > > C > >   Especially true if you have an OS with a working file system.  > . > File systems are a lousy way to manage data.  4 Unfortunately true for most current implementations.  A However, another truth is that databases - especially, relational : databases - are very often even worse ways to manage data.   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 19:19:55 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> Y Subject: Re: Hewlett-Packard said to be interested in buying software and services compan H Message-ID: <vHHKa.23184$O31.15826@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   I should qualify that...  D Most applications and developers prefer to use a rdbms for reason ofB easier maintenance of code, 'portability' of both applications and< programmers, and the ability to more easily manipulate data.  C That said, there are times when using a native file system provides C better performance, or the application doesn't call for a rdbms, or - there isn't money in the budget for an rdbms.   B But these days, the last reason is mostly a moot point with a dbms like MySQL available on VMS.      . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageB news:AYFKa.38690$bRt.14147@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...E > I agree with that, but most apps these days in the commercial arena  > use a relational dbms. >  > B > "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in7 > message news:tAHn3NTc2AR1@eisner.encompasserve.org...  > > In articleE > <eVuKa.30358$bRt.14733@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John ! > Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes: C > > > Absolutlely correct. If HP did that, Larry would kill Rdb and  > OracleB > > > on VMS faster than you could say 'Sayonara' (the name of his	 > yacht). F > > > Goodbye $2-4B annual VMS sales, goodbye $500-800MM in VMS annual9 > > > profits (depending upon whose numbers you believe).  > > E > >    I know its hard for some folks to believe, but out in the real  > world B > >    there are a hell of a lot of computers running applications that: > >    don't have and don't need Oracle or any other DBMS. > > D > >    Especially true if you have an OS with a working file system. > >  >  >    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jun 2003 15:21:20 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Y Subject: Re: Hewlett-Packard said to be interested in buying software and services compan 3 Message-ID: <GJNX02P2TVrM@eisner.encompasserve.org>   n In article <i8amfv8ih0aqgcm372kkfiks9pdej1isb5@4ax.com>, Robert Klute <robert_klute_removethis@hp.com> writes:  . > File systems are a lousy way to manage data.  G    You sound like a DBMS salesman.  Good file systems are great ways to D    manage data, that's why almost all modern computers are sold with#    at least a half way file system.   H    Only some of them also get DBMS's and lots of those are there becauseC    the file system was only half decent or the application designer     didn't know better.  F    90% of the DBMS installations I've seen do things that a $1200 ISAMI    package could do.  Real file systems have ISAM or a superset built in.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 17:17:34 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>Y Subject: Re: Hewlett-Packard said to be interested in buying software and services compan ) Message-ID: <3EFB62DE.9738E665@istop.com>    Bob Koehler wrote:H >    90% of the DBMS installations I've seen do things that a $1200 ISAMK >    package could do.  Real file systems have ISAM or a superset built in.   M My old PSION series 3c PDA has an ISAM implementation built in. 2 meg of RAM, 4 (for running and storage) and it has ISAM built in !  K Why doesn't DOS/Windows have some ISAM built-in ? Imagine how different the L software world would be. Oracle and other large database makers would have a2 much smaller market of only the largest databases.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 10:53:06 -0700 & From: Greg Cagle <gregc@gregcagle.com> Subject: Re: HP to drop hpux? / Message-ID: <vfmcq74appb635@corp.supernews.com>    Keith Parris wrote:   H > HP has been instrumental in the Trillian project to move Linux forwardF > from IA32 onto Itanium.  (IBM recently backed out on that.)  HP also > co-founded Gelato.  D In fact, the primary IA-64 kernel maintainer is David Mosberger, whoB works for HP. He has just published a huge book on the IA-64 Linux@ kernel. And Jeremy Allison, one of the primary Samba guys, works for HP.    --  
 Greg Cagle gregc at gregcagle dot com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 14:13:14 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> Subject: Re: HP to drop hpux? ) Message-ID: <3EFB37B4.231BBDFB@istop.com>    Keith Parris wrote: H > HP has been instrumental in the Trillian project to move Linux forward? > from IA32 onto Itanium.  (IBM recently backed out on that.)     F The move to IA64 bring nothing of value to the Linux community. AddingM software does. But porting to some obscure proprietary and expensive platform H defeats the purpose of Linux running on commodity hardware and competing against Windows.  L Did HP port Linux to IA64 with its own money, or did it use Intel money from its porting fund ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 11:29:33 -0700 & From: Greg Cagle <gregc@gregcagle.com> Subject: Re: HP to drop hpux? / Message-ID: <vfmeuifpkvcpbc@corp.supernews.com>    JF Mezei wrote:   F   > Did HP port Linux to IA64 with its own money, or did it use Intel 
 money from > its porting fund ?   Why on earth would that matter?  --  
 Greg Cagle gregc at gregcagle dot com   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 18:33:12 GMT 2 From: "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@NOSPAMopenvms.org> Subject: Re: HP to drop hpux? > Message-ID: <I%GKa.170365$jp.4748727@twister.southeast.rr.com>  K "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> ; wrote in message news:bdedcq$8n9$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com...  > JF Mezei wrote:  > > Greg Cagle wrote:  > > K > >>They can't decide that until the technology is there. It isn't there on K > >>Linux currently, and since HP doesn't control Linux kernel development, K > >>they can't plan for it. I'm specifically talking about large MP support B > >>in the standard kernel. It's JUST NOW getting into the kernel. > >  > > A > > Compaq started to kill Alpha years ago well before IA64 was a  commerciallyL > > viable entity (which it isn't yet). They officially announced its murder a few F > > years later, still years ahead of IA64 being commericially viable. > > J > > If Carly decides that the future lies with Linux, you can rest assured thatL > > she will work to make Linux progress at a faster rate than HP-UX so that Linux  > > eventually catches up. > = > Well HP will be starting from zero in the Linux R&D stakes, ? > as there is nothing of note that HP have donated to the Linux  > community so far.   L What a joke!  You'd better research that one Andrew.  The combined HP/Compaq contributions are numerous.   H The walls closing in Andrew?  Your comments are showing your desperation7 more and more.  Started looking for a new employer yet?    Ken      -- Kenneth Farmer  <><   ; OpenVMS:  http://www.OpenVMS.org  |  http://dcl.OpenVMS.org = Unix:  http://www.EnterpriseUnix.org  |  http://www.Tru64.org B Linux:  http://www.EnterpriseLinux.org  |  http://www.LinuxHPC.org   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 14:47:44 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> Subject: Re: HP to drop hpux? ) Message-ID: <3EFB3FC7.129C6614@istop.com>    Greg Cagle wrote:  >  > JF Mezei wrote:  > G >   > Did HP port Linux to IA64 with its own money, or did it use Intel  > money from > > its porting fund ? > ! > Why on earth would that matter?   G Helps us to understand HP's true intentions. You see, we don't trust HP I anymore than we trusted Compaq. They are porting VMS not because they are N interested in growing VMS, they are doing so to help Intel with its strugglingL IA64 platform, with Intel providing funding for the VMS port, as well as the Tandem port.  L If HP spends its OWN money on the port of Linux to that IA64 thing, it meansF much more than if it is merely using Intel's money to keep a few extraN employees and assign them to some work that will give HP the right to proclaim it is contributing to Linux.  J This isn't a consipracy. It is just a question that when you don't trust aK vendor's true intentions, you tend to pass all of their PR through a "don't  trust them" filter.   N HP used to be a highly regarded company making products of highest quality andJ nearly indestructible. Now, they have divested themselves of the "quality"N part and just want to be seen a a low cost commodity company. And I don't evenK know if they want to be a hardware or software company. Carly seems to sway @ from side to side pending o the phase of the moon on that issue.  N HP acquired a whole bunch of customers from Compaq and it has done very littleD to build their trust. It should have known that ex-Digital customersI distrusted Compaq and that by adopting all of Compaq policies and wording N (such as "plan of record", it would inherit that distrust, instead of startingA in neutral and being given a chance to prove itself to customers.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 19:08:17 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>  Subject: Re: HP to drop hpux? H Message-ID: <BwHKa.23098$O31.20015@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  > "Keith Parris" <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message7 news:cf15391e.0306260948.2479fb2d@posting.google.com... # > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy 8 <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message, news:<bdedcq$8n9$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...? > > Well HP will be starting from zero in the Linux R&D stakes, A > > as there is nothing of note that HP have donated to the Linux  > > community so far.  > D > All the communities which make up the current HP: Digital, Compaq,= > Tandem, and pre-merger HP itself, have all made significant D > contributions to Linux and to the open-source movement in general, not B > only in contributing time, effort, and code, but also leadership (for3 > example, Jon "Maddog" Hall came from DEC/Compaq).  > E > From Tandem after the Compaq acquisition came the 'NonStop Clusters C > for Unixware' Single System Image clustering code base that forms  the D > foundation of the Linux HA project (see http://linux-ha.org/), and HP  > is continuing that effort (see? > http://sourceforge.net/projects/ssic-linux).  And HP has been  helping E > the OpenMOSIX project which aims to provide SSI clustering on Linux  > without application changes. > @ > HP has been instrumental in the Trillian project to move Linux forward F > from IA32 onto Itanium.  (IBM recently backed out on that.)  HP also > co-founded Gelato. > D > In addition to volunteer efforts by people from within HP, HP also has E > well-funded official efforts such as our Linux Systems Division and  > our Linux & Open Source Labs.  > + > HP's Linux sales now exceed $2B annually.   E Your statement is a bit disengenious. What is far closer to the truth  is, F "HP sells hardware that could run just about any o/s, but the customerC chose to have Linux installed. HP sells $2B annually in this market D but makes little money on the hardware, and zero ($0) on the sale ofE Linux per se, it being open source and obtained from 3rd parties (Red  Hat, et. al.)."   A > So it's quite obvious that HP is serious about Linux, and about  > helping it move forward.  2 HP is serious about selling something for nothing.( That is a recipie for long-term failure.    > > Customers can make their own judgements about Sun's level of6 > committment (if you can even call it that) to Linux.  E When Linux capabilities and robustness is where Solaris is today, I'm D sure we'll hear McNeely singing a slightly different tune, but until
 then......   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 15:09:31 -0400:* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Re: HP to drop hpux?l2 Message-ID: <3q2cnRK44cNs2WajXTWJiA@metrocast.net>  3 "Greg Cagle" <gregc@gregcagle.com> wrote in message ) news:vfmcq74appb635@corp.supernews.com...0 > Keith Parris wrote:  >eJ > > HP has been instrumental in the Trillian project to move Linux forwardH > > from IA32 onto Itanium.  (IBM recently backed out on that.)  HP also > > co-founded Gelato. >kF > In fact, the primary IA-64 kernel maintainer is David Mosberger, whoD > works for HP. He has just published a huge book on the IA-64 Linux	 > kernel.P  K All of which could be considered fairly self-serving - and, of course, does?J not specifically address the degree, if any, to which HP actually supportsD Mosberger's work in that area rather than merely happening to be his	 employer.e  9  And Jeremy Allison, one of the primary Samba guys, works?	 > for HP.M  F That's a more legitimate contribution - but again, only if HP actually supports it in some way.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 15:11:01 -0400w* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Re: HP to drop hpux? 2 Message-ID: <N9mdnazgLZfW2GajXTWJhg@metrocast.net>  3 "Greg Cagle" <gregc@gregcagle.com> wrote in message.) news:vfmeuifpkvcpbc@corp.supernews.com...  > JF Mezei wrote:r >eG >   > Did HP port Linux to IA64 with its own money, or did it use Intele > money from > > its porting fund ? > ! > Why on earth would that matter?N  K It would indicate which entity deserved credit for supporting Linux in thatp area.s   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 19:10:27 GMTC# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>n Subject: Re: HP to drop hpux? H Message-ID: <DyHKa.23115$O31.22158@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  3 "Greg Cagle" <gregc@gregcagle.com> wrote in messagel) news:vfmcq74appb635@corp.supernews.com...h > Keith Parris wrote:  >eB > > HP has been instrumental in the Trillian project to move Linux forwardlC > > from IA32 onto Itanium.  (IBM recently backed out on that.)  HP- also > > co-founded Gelato. >nF > In fact, the primary IA-64 kernel maintainer is David Mosberger, whoD > works for HP. He has just published a huge book on the IA-64 LinuxB > kernel. And Jeremy Allison, one of the primary Samba guys, works	 > for HP.p    F Has HP ever considered that HP might make more money if you took these( guys and added them to the OpenVMS team?  F Their salaries, benefits, and other overhead is an expense charged off4 against something that per se earns HP zero profits.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 12:19:57 -0700r& From: Greg Cagle <gregc@gregcagle.com> Subject: Re: HP to drop hpux? / Message-ID: <vfmht28rvbktd6@corp.supernews.com>-   Bill Todd wrote:  5 > "Greg Cagle" <gregc@gregcagle.com> wrote in message"+ > news:vfmcq74appb635@corp.supernews.com...s >  >>Keith Parris wrote:  >> >>I >>>HP has been instrumental in the Trillian project to move Linux forwardsG >>>from IA32 onto Itanium.  (IBM recently backed out on that.)  HP alsoo >>>co-founded Gelato.  >>F >>In fact, the primary IA-64 kernel maintainer is David Mosberger, whoD >>works for HP. He has just published a huge book on the IA-64 Linux	 >>kernel.u >  > M > All of which could be considered fairly self-serving - and, of course, does L > not specifically address the degree, if any, to which HP actually supportsF > Mosberger's work in that area rather than merely happening to be his > employer.X   It is his full time job at HP.  ; >  And Jeremy Allison, one of the primary Samba guys, worksu > 	 >>for HP.a >  > H > That's a more legitimate contribution - but again, only if HP actually > supports it in some way.   It is his full time job at HP.   --  
 Greg Cagle gregc at gregcagle dot com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 17:13:32 -0400r* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> Subject: Re: HP to drop hpux? ) Message-ID: <3EFB61ED.15EDE35C@istop.com>W   John Smith wrote:s4 > HP is serious about selling something for nothing.* > That is a recipie for long-term failure.  M Put yourself into the commodity mentality. Lots of companies are succesful atoC selling low margin commodity stuff. Think calculators made in asia.k  M Both Carly and Curly had stated that enterprise computing was heading towardsiN commodity, low margin hardware. *IF* that is the case, then HP better shape upJ and start to be leaner and meaner than Dell, because once Sony enters thatM market big time (it is merely testing the waters now), US-built computers may ' go the way of US built television sets.n  N Digital's problems started when it refused to drop its prices to match the newG competition.  Palmer made thing much worse by alieniating the remaining4% customers who hadn't migrated to Sun.r  E If, like Digital, you try to force high margin hardware on customers,oK customers will go elsewhere. If a platform such as VMS is seen as being tooo$ costly, customers will go elsewhere.  M Where I see the failure is the apparently current strategy of limiting VMS to L only high margin existing accounts.  As the customer base narrows, each lossI of a customer then becomes a major issue with revenus. (a bit like TandemuN whose numbers go like a roller coaster depending on whether they made one sale this quarter or not).   M VMS will then become a single purpose specialized appliance that is used onlyrN be a few people who absolutely need whatever special VMS offers. The rest will. find their needs satisfied by other platforms.  J As linux matures, it will eat at the underbelly of HP-UX (eat that WinklerK !!!!). I think that Sun is very aware of the threath of Linux, which is whyfL they have priced Solaris to compete against linux, instead of trying to milk) customers for every penny they can spare.   N "Commodity pricing" begins with the acceptance that if you are not competitiveW and if you don't market your products, customers will choose another vendor's products.    ------------------------------   Date: 26 Jun 2003 19:01 CDT:' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)r Subject: Re: HP to drop hpux?g- Message-ID: <26JUN200319014842@gerg.tamu.edu>   a In article <N9mdnazgLZfW2GajXTWJhg@metrocast.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes...@ } 4 }"Greg Cagle" <gregc@gregcagle.com> wrote in message* }news:vfmeuifpkvcpbc@corp.supernews.com... }> JF Mezei wrote: }>H }>   > Did HP port Linux to IA64 with its own money, or did it use Intel
 }> money from  }> > its porting fund ?> }>" }> Why on earth would that matter? } L }It would indicate which entity deserved credit for supporting Linux in that }area. }  }- billo  E If Intel bought you a car which you than used, would the miles it was0? driven count as miles that you drove or miles that Intel drove?y   --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 21:00:49 -0400t* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Re: HP to drop hpux?i2 Message-ID: <fuOcnTVaMNPbCmajXTWJgA@metrocast.net>  4 "Carl Perkins" <carl@gerg.tamu.edu> wrote in message' news:26JUN200319014842@gerg.tamu.edu...h@ > In article <N9mdnazgLZfW2GajXTWJhg@metrocast.net>, "Bill Todd"" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes... > }H6 > }"Greg Cagle" <gregc@gregcagle.com> wrote in message, > }news:vfmeuifpkvcpbc@corp.supernews.com... > }> JF Mezei wrote: > }>J > }>   > Did HP port Linux to IA64 with its own money, or did it use Intel > }> money from  > }> > its porting fund ?s > }>$ > }> Why on earth would that matter? > } I > }It would indicate which entity deserved credit for supporting Linux in  that > }area. > }C	 > }- bille >yG > If Intel bought you a car which you than used, would the miles it wassA > driven count as miles that you drove or miles that Intel drove?u  A If Intel gave me the car out of the goodness of its heart with nofL restrictions on its use, then I'd get credit for whatever I used it for.  IfC Intel gave me the car on the condition that I use it for a specific-K Intel-approved purpose (as is presumably the case with porting funds), thenlL Intel would control its use and get any credit derived therefrom even though I might be at the wheel.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 23:09:17 -04001* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> Subject: Re: HP to drop hpux?W) Message-ID: <3EFBB53D.D2E7B420@istop.com>h   Carl Perkins wrote:gG > If Intel bought you a car which you than used, would the miles it waswA > driven count as miles that you drove or miles that Intel drove?   L If, in order to continue to get a supply of chips , Intel forced me to driveM the car even though I would have prefered to ride my bike,, then my driving ahA car doesn't reflect my own intentions, but rather those of intel._  G This is why Compaq or HP's commitments to VMS on IA64 have yet to provee@ themselves. The impetus came from Intel who is funding the port.  L You will note that previous announcements had meant a port of Tru64 to IA64,N but not a port of VMS. Then comes Intel and magically, VMS gets ported becauseO Intel realises it really needs to kill Alpha to make its chip look not so slow.h  N The competition isn't on who can be the best, but rather who can kill the best+ so that the second best can then become #1.m   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 20:13:06 +0200o+ From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl> = Subject: Re: LAT SMG coded application to Telnet-based screen 5 Message-ID: <bdfd3k$sp6v2$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>-  - "L Arut" <larut@yahoo.com> schreef in bericht 7 news:73f00c8f.0306252330.4e0edb39@posting.google.com...1F > We have a monitoring system which uses SMG calls and Starlet libraryE > written in Vax Pascal and works over LAT as an application service..G > It would be nice if I can change it to a Telnet type application overr5 > the IP network to target the DS90M terminal server.aB > Is there any site with examples of code for users migrating fromF > SMG-type VMS system calls for such VT applications to move to Telnet" > connections based on QIO stuff ? > E > As the corporate backbone does not support LAT, we are in a fix andoF > need to get a reliable way of allowing remote or over the WAN access > to such monitoring screens.sF > I don't know if Cisco LAT over IP will be robust or fast enough overE > such a WAN and the cost of a trial may involve cost equivalent to ae
 > rewrite. >e >u > Ki  L The network protocol is very likely not of any interest to the SMG routines.E SMG uses a pasteboard that derives its capabilities from the terminal H device. The terminal device may be TTA0, LTA0, RTA0, FTA0 or TNA0. If it2 behaves like a VT100 or later then that is enough.H It is possible that the software was written with hardcode device names.J Perhaps because reverse lat is used and the LTA device names are fixed. ItH is worth trying what happens if you connect with Telnet and use $ DEFINE
 TNAx LTAx.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 15:03:19 -0400t* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>C Subject: Re: New Business View Magazine for HP Enterprise Customersr2 Message-ID: <O5icnRZzWLrg3majXTWJig@metrocast.net>  ? "Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspring.com> wrote in messagetF news:rdeininger-2606030631360001@user-uinj4di.dialup.mindspring.com...5 > In article <3EFAA00D.22E3C09D@127.0.0.1>, Nic Clewsc! > <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote:s >  >SE > >Serious suggestion time: For the next edition, you need an articlenJ > >describing what OpenVMS does, a reliable, secure backroom server system% > >that you can bet your business on.  >hL > Does this magazine have any contact info for the editor?  You don't expectC > anyone to act on your suggestion if you only post it here, right?o  L "Post here, get an answer here" is a time-honored tradition.  Keith seems toI have taken it upon himself to be a VMS (and often a general HP) advocate, I hence one might expect him to be interested in passing on such comments -t0 possibly increasing their weight in the process.   >CL > Even if Keith or Sue or someone else in HP sees your suggestion and passesK > it along, I expect it would go in the folder marked "comments from peoples4 > who couldn't be bothered to send their own email."  L In other words, pretty much the same reaction that VMS's owners usually haveL for comments offered directly.  Another good reason for giving it to someone3 who might actually be motivated to follow up on it.3   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 19:28:25 -0500e1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>  Subject: Re: Patches?w' Message-ID: <3EFB8FA9.4D9C8B99@fsi.net>w   Amy Lewis wrote: > 	 > Hi all,v > K > Where would I go to find out what patches I don't have yet that I should?o  , Patches? We don't need no stinkin' patches!    ...Sorry, couldn't resist.     --   David J. DachteraI dba DJE Systemsh http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/u   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 22:53:28 -0400,  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>' Subject: Re: physical drive replacementu5 Message-ID: <1030626223708.2835E-100000@Ives.egh.com>W  - On 25 Jun 2003 mckinneyj@cpva.saic.com wrote:_  7 > In article <1030624224635.2835D-100000@Ives.egh.com>,1% >  John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> writes:n+ > > On Tue, 24 Jun 2003, frank brown wrote:s > > N > >> I'm getting UNCORRECTABLE ECC errors on DUA12 which is actually a pair ofN > >> striped RZ29L (SCSI disks) shadowed with an identical 2-volume stripeset.L > >> (We have 4 disks, configured as 2 shadowed stripesets.)  The drives areL > >> attached to an HSD10 DSSI-SCSI controller in a Storageworks BA350 tower) > >> connected to a VMS 5.5-2 VAXcluster.  > >> tP > >> My first problem is determining which of the 2 physical drives in stripesetH > >> DUA12 is throwing the errors.  ANALYZE/ERROR identifies the unit asQ > >> _RAID1$DUA12.  Since DUA12 is a stripset how can I tell which physical drive  > >> it is?n > >> iM > >> Once I identify the drive with the errors, I'd like to replace it with apN > >> spare.  Ideally I'd love to simply dismount the volume, pop the old driveO > >> module out of the enclosure, replace the drive inside the module, slide iteM > >> back into the enclosure, initialize the drive, remount it as part of therQ > >> shadowset and have the system rebuild the volume.  However I realize this is> > >> improbable. > >> oN > >> 1. The HSD10 manual says I can warm-swap the drive but I need to 'quiesceJ > >> the SCSI bus'.  Is there a way to perform this operation from the VMSM > >> command line or do I need to shutdown VMS to get to >>> console to enterR > >> HSD10 commands? > > I > > Frank - since no one else has responded yet (though I only see 36 newdI > > messages today, so my ISP might be having news server problems), I'll  > > throw in my 2 cents. > > I > > I haven't used an HSD10, but on HSZ & HSJ controllers there are a setdH > > of buttons on the front, one for each bus.  You hold down the buttonH > > for a few seconds and it starts flashing.  This means the controllerJ > > has noticed the button press and is stalling all I/O to that bus.  YouK > > then have about 30 seconds to make changes.  (I'm not sure, but I thinkiH > > you can press the button again to resume activity when you are down,F > > but the controller will time out after about 30 seconds and resumeI > > even if you do nothing.  While quiesced, the controllor will continuetG > > to accept I/O requests for drives on the bus, but won't do anythinguG > > about them.  To the hosts, it just looks like the disks have gotten G > > really slow, but nothing breaks.  You probably want to do this whenLL > > the system is relatively idle, just to keep your users from complaining. > > O > >> 2. Will I need to recreate the stripeset at the HSD10 or will the existingaN > >> stripeset definition work with the replacement drive (since it's the same > >> model in the same slot)?m > > 5 > > Sorry, don't know how HSD's handle stripe sets...  > > I > >> 3. Any other thoughts or suggestions on dealing with this situation.d > > , > > You say "shadowed stripesets"... HBVS?   > >  > K > You'll want to first disolve the shadowset with a DISMOUNT of the failingf > member from VMS.  F I don't think you actually have to disolve the shadow set, just remove; the failing member from it (by dismounting it with a simpleiE "$ dismount RAID1$DUA12:".)  This should leave the other disk mounted G as a single-member shadow set.  (This could be a matter of terminology;fF I think of disolving the shadow set as meaning to dismount the set andE remount the individual members with /override=shadow_membership, thus D making them no longer be a shadow set.  Or did you just mean "reduce the shadow set to one member?")    >  > Then on the controller,iD >  record the SHOW display for unit, stripeset and the failing disk, >  DELETE the stripeset's unit,o >  DELETE the stripeset,B >  DELETE the disk, quiesce the bus and perform the physical swap,  A Above, I suggested there might be buttons on the HSD10 to quiesced= the bus, but someone in another reply said HSD10's don't havee@ buttons...  I have an HSD05 (no buttons, either) but have used aB lot of HSJ40's, HSJ50's, HSZ70's and HSZ80's, all of which do have= buttons.  Do you know how to quiesce the bus on the HSD10 (orw> for that matter, on the HSD05?)  Is there actually a button on it that I haven't noticed?  3 >  ADD the disk as seen in your prior SHOW display,R >  INIT the disk,a8 >  ADD the stripeset as seen in your prior SHOW display, >  INIT the stripeset,3 >  ADD the unit as seen in your prior SHOW display,r; >  and SET any characteristics that are absent on the unit.  > L > And back in VMS re-form your shadowset with the appropriate MOUNT command. > D > > My guess, since half the blocks will need to be replaced is thatH > > the write-logging stuff in later VMS (probably not available in V5.5E > > anyway) wouldn't help in this and you'll have to do a full shadowiF > > copy, but I think you should be able to dismount the bad stripesetE > > from the shadowset, if it hasn't already been kicked out (do this I > > before pulling the bad drive), replace the broken drive, reconstituterF > > the stripe set (Don't know how to do this), init the reconstitutedB > > DUA12: with the same volume label as your original stripe set,H > > and mount it into the shadow set, which should trigger a shadow copyH > > (not Merge!) to it.  (Half the blocks, more or less, should still beE > > identical to the source, but the other half will be blank or test B > > patterns or old data, so you definitely want it to do a copy.)D > > In an hour or so, the copy should complete and you should be all > > set. > > = > > No down time for the application, provided you don't mind C > > running without the shadow backup you normally have.  If really @ > > paranoid, you can shut down the application, backup the goodA > > remaining stripeset (the good half of the shadow set), do the G > > drive replace and shadow set rebuild, and then turn the applicationiH > > back on.  This method will result in considerable downtime, probablyK > > about an hour plus whatever time it takes to backup the good disks and hI > > to swap out the bad disk and rebuild the stripeset, but you will have- > > a good backup at all times.e > > A > > Other people recently have discussed the benefits of doing an.F > > physical backup of a shadow set to a new disk that you want to addD > > to the shadow set, in order to reduce the amount of copying thatE > > the shadow copy needs to do.  (I think shadow copying operates inaC > > a very cautious way.  Something like read from the source disk,0G > > read-check again to verify it reads okay, read from the destinationrH > > disk (looking for a potential bad block), read-check the destinationE > > disk, compare the source and destination, and if different, writeeH > > to the destination disk, and then writecheck the stuff just written.G > > If a bad block or check failure is found anywhere in all this, thenbC > > the bad block replacement process is initiated.  I think if youoF > > backup/physical the source disk to the destination disk first, youD > > save the copy from having to do the writes and write-checks, butD > > of course the system still has to write all the data while doingB > > the backup, and has to read the data an extra time, so I don'tF > > see how this saves you much, especially if you /verify the backup.E > > A Google search should find the thread that discussed this, a fewu > > months ago.i > >  > >  > >> o > >> -Frank Brownd > >> Seattle Fire Dept.l > >> http://www.inwa.net/~frog/t > > 1 > > Fire Dept?  Maybe you want to be paranoid :-)-   > - Jim-   -- - John Santos, Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 20:21:46 GMTg& From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net>; Subject: Re: SET HOST/LAT and cut and paste with DECwindowso8 Message-ID: <melmfvssugg2civclfn7ju8htmfci0cq99@4ax.com>  8 On Wed, 25 Jun 2003 17:24:21 +0100 (MET), Phillip Helbig+ <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote:o   >dD >Since /HOHOSTSYNC is the default, and I haven't changed it, that's D >probably my problem.  I haven't checked this in detail yet, though. >p  I /HOHO-STSYNC - This qualifier allows one to synchronize with snack cakes.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 23:38:19 -0400   From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>; Subject: Re: SET HOST/LAT and cut and paste with DECwindowst5 Message-ID: <1030626225719.2835F-100000@Ives.egh.com>s  * On Wed, 25 Jun 2003, Phillip Helbig wrote:  	 > > > Trys > > >d  > > >    $ set terminal/hostsync > > L > > well spotted, that is a good reason for having a ridiculously low amount > > of data in cut and paste.  > E > Since /HOHOSTSYNC is the default, and I haven't changed it, that's 1E > probably my problem.  I haven't checked this in detail yet, though.s > I > However, since /NOHOSTSYNC is the default, presumably there is a reason @ > for this.  What problems could changing my personal default to > /NOHOSTSYNC bring me?)  B /HOSTSYNC causes the system to send an XOFF to the terminal if theB input buffer gets full (and an XON once the buffer starts to emptyB out again.)  If the terminal is incapable of processing a receivedB XOFF/XON, it can wedge if the system sends it one.  IIRC, the lastG DEC terminals that didn't work with /HOSTSYNC were the VT52 and LA36...h@ The VT100 and LA120 do support /HOSTSYNC.  So /NOHOSTSYNC is the1 default because it was the default on VMS V1.0...-  @ VT52 and LA36 and older couldn't send data faster than you could@ type it, so it wasn't really an issue, so there lack of outbound? flow control.  If you typed ahead too much, VMS would just sendm
 beeps at you.D  @ VT100 and LA36 and later could send much more data: Answerbacks,= long ANSI-mode status messages, possibly screen-scrapes, etc.eA So they were more likely to be able to overflow the input buffer.e  E It shouldn't break anything to set it to /HOSTSYNC in your login.com, . unless you are really using ancient terminals.  A BTW, I am 99% sure that SET TERM/INQUIRE on a VT100 or later sets 
 /HOSTSYNC.   > I > Why can I cut and paste more if I log in via telnet or just in a local mH > DECterm, but not via LAT?  Does this perhaps change the defaults?  (I A > certainly don't have any procedures which modify this terminal 0 > characteristic.)  C DECTERM (and CTERM) propagate the terminal characteristics from the-? local system.  I don't think telnet does this, but it might for ? characteristics that map directly to Unix characteristics.  SETt? HOST/LAT doesn't propagate the terminal settings.  Or maybe youm? have a set terminal/inquire in your login.com or in sys$syloginrB that executes on DECTerms and telnet terminals, but is skipped for batch jobs and LAT terminals?d  K > I just tried SET TERM/NOHOSTSYNC in the DECterm into which I am pasting,  G > and a few lines (the output from SHOW TERMINAL, actually) COMPLETELY aJ > HUNG the DECterm---I got rid of it via STOP/ID (I forgot to try if File   > Expected, but maybe you could have cleared it using the "clearA communications" item on the "Commands" drop-down menu in DECTerm?r  F > Exit in the menu bar worked).  With LAT, it just copies a couple of  > lines and beeps a lot.  # VMS beeps on input buffer overruns.@  * > I'll do some more extensive tests later. > I > While I'm on the topic: I always use a VT320 as the console.  I usually F > use a DEC423 cable.  This has always worked fine.  On a new (for me)J > VAX, however, the keyboard input isn't even echoed properly until a SET E > TERM/INQUIRE is done.  However, SET HOST/LAT or TELNET to the same iE > machine will set things aright.  I'm pretty sure that the terminal e: > itself is set up the same as my other console terminals.  A Hold it...  You try to log in on the console terminal (OPA0:) anddF echoing doesn't work until you log into the system with a set host/latD or telnet from another system?  Or do you mean you type blind at theB console to log in and then "telnet localhost" or "set host/lat 0",D and then the console seems to start working right?  In the 1st case,? something is really bogus since login in should only affect thecJ terminal you are using.  In the second case, it points to a "SET TERM/INQ"A or explicit "SET TERM/xxx" in login.com or sys$sylogin that don'trI always get executed when they should.  (Maybe improper conditionalizationmD that is supposed to prevent them from being executed in batch and/orA network server processes, that is mistakenly also excluding othern interactive logins?)  1 > What determines the "initial" terminal setting?3  B SYSGEN parameters TTY_DEFCHAR and TTY_DEFCHAR2, which are bitmaps,= so to use them, you need to look up the various TT$M_xxxx and A TT2$M_xxxx values and .OR. them together.  (Defined in $TTDEF andy $TT2DEF macros.)  > For some terminals that are cloned from a template device, you< can SET TERMINAL xxA0:/whatever, where xxA0: is the template; for the particular type of terminal (e.g. LTA0: for LAT, or C NTA0: for TCPWare telnet terminals, TNA0: for UCX telnet terminals,:< etc.)  I don't think this works for all cloned terminals butA depends on whether the particular port driver copies the settings_? from the template device or uses other methods, such as logical9 names, to set them.c   --   John Santoso Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 05:28:50 +0200r2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender); Subject: Re: SET HOST/LAT and cut and paste with DECwindowsi; Message-ID: <3efbb9f2.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>J  8 Michael Moroney (moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com) wrote: > [...] UnfortunatelysE > I don't know how to make lat devices use the alt typeahead size (by J > default that is not by running some program for each lat device created)  + Errr... What about SET TERMINAL /ALTYPAHD ?a   cu,    Martin -- yA                      | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmert. Microsoft's answer   | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deA to OpenVMS is        |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/ 5 Windows NT 10.0.     | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de&   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 00:10:36 -0400   From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>! Subject: Re: SIMH V3.0-0 releasede5 Message-ID: <1030626235746.2835G-100000@Ives.egh.com>e  ) On Wed, 25 Jun 2003, Michael Unger wrote:c  ) > On 23-Jun-2003 15:54, Bob Supnik wrote:d > : > > SIMH V3.0 was released yesterday on the SIMH web site. > > ! > > http://simh.trailing-edge.com/ > > 	 > > [...]  > G > Quoting from "vax-doc.txt" (section 2.5 RQDX3 MSCP Disk Controllers):w >   # > > 	SET RQn RD51		set type to RD51LD 10MB??  (From memory - everything else is from various old DECDirect
 catalogs.)  # > > 	SET RQn RD52		set type to RD52F 31MB  # > > 	SET RQn RD53		set type to RD53R 71MB  # > > 	SET RQn RD54		set type to RD542 159MBi  # > > 	SET RQn RD31		set type to RD31  20MB  # > > 	SET RQn RA82		set type to RA82  622MB   # > > 	SET RQn RA72		set type to RA72  1GBo  # > > 	SET RQn RA90		set type to RA90  1.2GBe  # > > 	SET RQn RA92		set type to RA92  1.5GBa   > H > What's the capacity of these disks? These drives seem to be rather oldI > and I didn't find any documentation at the HP web site, even within the, > SOC archive. > 	 > Michaell   -- t John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 05:50:52 +0200 2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)! Subject: Re: SIMH V3.0-0 releaseds; Message-ID: <3efbbf1c.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>   ? [newsgroups header narrowed to comp.os.vms for obvious reasons]   D Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann (vaxinf@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de) wrote:( > Did someone  test VAX-AXP.EXE on V7.3?  J Works on VMS 7.2-2, DEC C 6.4-008 (after making the change Rok mentioned).   cu,b   Martin -- rD                         | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer1  VMS is today what      | work: mv@pdv-systeme.delE  Microsoft wants        |    http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/ 8  Windows NT 8.0 to be!  | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 05:43:08 +0200t2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)! Subject: Re: SIMH V3.0-0 released ; Message-ID: <3efbbd4c.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>t  % Michael Unger (unger@decus.de) wrote:a) > On 23-Jun-2003 15:54, Bob Supnik wrote:e: > > SIMH V3.0 was released yesterday on the SIMH web site. > > ! > > http://simh.trailing-edge.comu > > 	 > > [...]v >aG > Quoting from "vax-doc.txt" (section 2.5 RQDX3 MSCP Disk Controllers):  >a# > > 	SET RQn RD51		set type to RD51r# > > 	SET RQn RD52		set type to RD52u# > > 	SET RQn RD53		set type to RD53-# > > 	SET RQn RD54		set type to RD54o# > > 	SET RQn RD31		set type to RD31P# > > 	SET RQn RA82		set type to RA82 # > > 	SET RQn RA72		set type to RA726# > > 	SET RQn RA90		set type to RA90 # > > 	SET RQn RA92		set type to RA92  >dH > What's the capacity of these disks? These drives seem to be rather oldI > and I didn't find any documentation at the HP web site, even within theu > SOC archive.  G [.PDP11]PDP11_RQ.C has a table of the disks' geometry, including numberm of logical blocks.   cu,h   Martin -- hG                            | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer 4  UNIX is user friendly.    | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deG  It's just selective about |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/i;  who its friends are.      | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.dex   ------------------------------   Date: 26 Jun 2003 18:41 CDTe' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)N Subject: Re: SWXCRMGR Update- Message-ID: <26JUN200318412495@gerg.tamu.edu>a  1 David B Sneddon <dbsneddon@bigpond.com> writes...(1 }On Wed, 25 Jun 2003 23:51, Adrian Birkett wrote:  }> All,rK }> I agree with the customer that this cannot be normal behaviour, however,pG }> I am using TNG Console Manager with the serial line connected into auK }> terminal server and over the network as the box is in Holland and I'm inl
 }> the UK. }> }> Ade } J }I remember my first use of the swxcrmgr utility running on a VT terminal.D }After about the 10% stage you could see what it was doing to updateE }the screen which must have been doing an update after every I/O.  ItcF }got slower and slower.  You could see the cursor going crazy all overD }screen.  Doing the same thing using a graphics monitor the time was9 }about 40 minutes as opposed to about 12 hours on the VT. * }An absolutely dreadful piece of software. } 	 }Regards,h }Dave.  E Which brings up the question of what communication speed his terminal  is set to use.  H If it is something unusually slow, like 4800 bps or lower since 9600 bpsG is generally the "normal" speed, then that (in conjuntion with the veryoK poor design of the software) could explain why it is taking him even longerm than everybody else.  E Simply doubling the communication speed setting of the terminal couldtA cut the time in half, unless there are serious bottlenecks in hisuG network connection as well. Likewise for quadrupling it to cut the timeh by a factor of 4.e   --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 17:35:37 -0400g* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>% Subject: Testing network on a clustere) Message-ID: <3EFB6718.21464A0D@istop.com>B  : Ok, last weekend, while I was away, some problem surfaced.  E After investigation, I found out that my router had decided to refuse<N *outgoing* calls from one machine on my lan. That machine is the one providingI DNS services to the other machines on my lan (local host names as well asn internet host names).f  N Since my goal is to have a lights out resilient system, I want to develop someL scripting to detect faults, and fix them.  With 2 machines in the cluster, IH now need to have "stereo" vision to logically determine where a point ofM failure is. And then, one of those machines must also test the router and DSLr" modem (through its serial ports).   M So, if I have a recurring job that tests the "network" on node VELO, what are N the different ways to synchronise processing of similar tests on node BIKE andN once all is done, VELO analyses the results to determine what action to take ?  K I can think of using SYNCHRONIZE to wait for batch jobs to complete on bothaN nodes before proceeding with the analysis of what works and what doesn't work.  K I can think of using SYSMAN to "spawn" command procedures on both nodes, atpJ which point, SYSMAN would do the synchronisation and only execute the EXITB command once the DO command has completed on both nodes. (right ?)  ' Are there other methods of doing this ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 15:14:56 -0700 + From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com>r) Subject: Re: Testing network on a cluster ' Message-ID: <3EFB7060.5070703@MMaz.com>n   JF Mezei wrote:r  L >I can think of using SYNCHRONIZE to wait for batch jobs to complete on bothO >nodes before proceeding with the analysis of what works and what doesn't work.e >gL >I can think of using SYSMAN to "spawn" command procedures on both nodes, atK >which point, SYSMAN would do the synchronisation and only execute the EXITeC >command once the DO command has completed on both nodes. (right ?)i >h >  l >nE Unless I'm missing, both of these models would presume an initiator, eF which defeats the entire objective if that initiating system is down,  correct?  H What about using distributed locks to control the synchrozing and since E their in a cluster, I presume you have DECnet up and running, so you A@ could do remote network tasking and pass tokens between the two H processes for comparitive reasons, letting the lead dog which holds the G exclusive lock to play as the control point and if for some reason the  J slave host(s) are not available, the primary can continue independently...   Barryt   -- -  @ Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIO   A E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028p   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 19:30:00 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>) Subject: Re: Testing network on a clusterp) Message-ID: <3EFB81DF.E16D1596@istop.com>    "Barry Treahy, Jr." wrote:I > What about using distributed locks to control the synchrozing and sincen > their in a cluster,k  K I think i would prefer to write this in DCL, so locks would be more or lessII out of the question. (Hey, what about a lexical giving access to the lock 
 manager ?)  2 > I presume you have DECnet up and running, so youA > could do remote network tasking and pass tokens between the two,  K Yep, Hadn't thought about that. The advantage of SYSMAN over DECNET is thatpK SYSMAN takes care of running the 2 processes at the same time and returning N control to me once both are done. If I do this with DECNET, it is a bit harder" to have both run at the same time.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 10:46:37 -0700l. From: Gary Armstrong <garyarm@testedgeinc.com> Subject: TK50 Need Helpt. Message-ID: <3EFB317D.4010503@testedgeinc.com>   Hi all;-   Background:-E I'm a sun/solaris admin just given one of those "are you kidding me" fF projects. I've been handed a TK50 tape originally created on  a micro G vax. It's some kind of archive created just in case (Yup case). I need  D to retreive the info on this tape. I know zip about vax/vms, so I'm E perfect for the task. 8^) Anyhow, they actually archived the machine e along with the tape.   Given the above:  I 1) Should I actually try to fire that baby up considering the following.  F They're telling me it's been in that basement unpowered and uncovered F for 3+ years. I know no passwords or commands. I have no idea how the ? tape was created. The lan it once lived on went the way of the t> dinasours, so configuration on my lan would also be a problem.  G 2) Can anyone direct me to a service that can read it for me? Southern aI California would be a real pluss. The tape is suddenly precious and they m don't want it out of site.   Why me?  Gary   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 20:26:02 +0200r+ From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl>o Subject: Re: TK50 Need Help.5 Message-ID: <bdfdrs$sb83d$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>y  = "Gary Armstrong" <garyarm@testedgeinc.com> schreef in berichta( news:3EFB317D.4010503@testedgeinc.com...	 > Hi all;h > 
 > Background: F > I'm a sun/solaris admin just given one of those "are you kidding me"G > projects. I've been handed a TK50 tape originally created on  a microlH > vax. It's some kind of archive created just in case (Yup case). I needE > to retreive the info on this tape. I know zip about vax/vms, so I'mcF > perfect for the task. 8^) Anyhow, they actually archived the machine > along with the tape.  H That's encouraging: you have media and appropriate hardware. Note that aA TK50 may be read (not written to) on TK70 and TK85/86 drives too.i >t > Given the above: >fJ > 1) Should I actually try to fire that baby up considering the following.G > They're telling me it's been in that basement unpowered and uncoverednG > for 3+ years. I know no passwords or commands. I have no idea how thee@ > tape was created. The lan it once lived on went the way of the@ > dinasours, so configuration on my lan would also be a problem.  L If you happen to have a computer that connects to the tape drive then things might be easy.  E 1) |D|i|g|i|t|a|l| branded hardware is next to indestructable. I haveaJ several machines in my own collection that hadn't run for over 4 years andJ booted at power up. The VAXstation 2000 (built in '87) still works, thoughL its disk is gone. The VAX systems with SCSI are even better: SCSI disks tend to live longer.t  H 2) Power up and wait until you see >>> on the console. Just for fun just  type B and see whether it boots.L If so then your next problem is breaking in to the system: no problem we can tell you how that works.L If it fails to boot please copy the exact error message and post it. It does7 help if you specify what VAX model you're working with.i  K 3) The next step is to read the tape. If it is a backup tape then know thath7 VMS backup did not change its format (like MS-DOS did).dJ 4) Getting the data off the disk is something else again. Depending on theI model, the VAX may have an AUI ethernet interface. Your LAN changed, verysL likely to UTP and an ethernet flavor. Buy a UTP transceiver (AUI to UTP) andL wire tha VAX to a 10/100 port. The next step is figuring out if the VAX runsE IP. If not then you'll need something like kermit and a (fast) serialp" connection. Slow but still doable.  H > 2) Can anyone direct me to a service that can read it for me? SouthernJ > California would be a real pluss. The tape is suddenly precious and they > don't want it out of site. >?  D Perhaps list members near you will help you. Otherwise UPS it to theF Netherlands and I'll dump the contents on whatever medium you want it.  	 > Why me?o  G Simple, this is a very interesting, entertaining and rewarding task :-)e   > Gary >t  	 Have fun!u hans   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jun 2003 13:04:44 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)a Subject: Re: TK50 Need Helpe3 Message-ID: <WzUZKKH5Fvid@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  _ In article <3EFB317D.4010503@testedgeinc.com>, Gary Armstrong <garyarm@testedgeinc.com> writes:l  I > 2) Can anyone direct me to a service that can read it for me? Southern eK > California would be a real pluss. The tape is suddenly precious and they u > don't want it out of site.  A If you need someone to come onsite in that area, you might try to < hire Alan Frisbie.  His company name is Flying Disk Systems.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 11:17:41 -0700a. From: Gary Armstrong <garyarm@testedgeinc.com> Subject: Re: TK50 Need Help . Message-ID: <3EFB38C5.3050404@testedgeinc.com>  G Sorry, if you see multiple posts. I'm seeing 4 of the same. I swear, I  7 hit send once. My wife would claim it's to much coffee.i   Gary   Gary Armstrong wrote:t	 > Hi all;s > 
 > Background:PG > I'm a sun/solaris admin just given one of those "are you kidding me"  H > projects. I've been handed a TK50 tape originally created on  a micro I > vax. It's some kind of archive created just in case (Yup case). I need  F > to retreive the info on this tape. I know zip about vax/vms, so I'm G > perfect for the task. 8^) Anyhow, they actually archived the machine t > along with the tape. >  > Given the above: > K > 1) Should I actually try to fire that baby up considering the following. -H > They're telling me it's been in that basement unpowered and uncovered H > for 3+ years. I know no passwords or commands. I have no idea how the A > tape was created. The lan it once lived on went the way of the d@ > dinasours, so configuration on my lan would also be a problem. > I > 2) Can anyone direct me to a service that can read it for me? Southern sK > California would be a real pluss. The tape is suddenly precious and they k > don't want it out of site. > 	 > Why me?w > Gary >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 14:10:22 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> Subject: Re: TK50 Need Helpc) Message-ID: <3EFB3708.DEEF8AAC@istop.com>S   Gary Armstrong wrote: H > 2) Can anyone direct me to a service that can read it for me? SouthernJ > California would be a real pluss. The tape is suddenly precious and they > don't want it out of site.   Site or sight ?   J If you can't take it out of your site, then firing up the old vax might beQ your best bet. Get some compressed air to blow the dust out of the TK50 drive :-)i  N The old vax should have at least one serial port (OPA0:, the operator console)N and you could just rig up a PC to run Kermit to download the restored files toF the pc and then move the pc to your new lan and use whatever tools are$ available on that lan (ftp nfs etc).  K Did that vax have any TCPIP connectivity ? If so, you might just be able toaL connect your pC onto its ethernet to create a small segment and then use FTP; etc to transfer the files once they are restored from TK50.h  J If the tape can go out of site, then there are plemty of us with vaxes who could restore the tape for you.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 18:58:38 GMTr3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond)o Subject: Re: TK50 Need Helpe2 Message-ID: <ynHKa.3468$O_2.1555@news.cpqcorp.net>  J If you want to read this tape on an old, dusty drive, I strongly recommendK that you first check out the drive reading an expendable tape.  TK50 drivesAA are quite capable of "eating" tape -- rendering it unusable.  OneoG that has been sitting around in a dusty storage area for some number ofa$ years is to be treated with caution.   -- aJ       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 12:02:08 -0700e* From: Alan Frisbie <Abuse@Flying-Disk.com> Subject: Re: TK50 Need Help . Message-ID: <3EFB4330.9090008@Flying-Disk.com>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:a > In article <3EFB317D.4010503@testedgeinc.com>, Gary Armstrong <garyarm@testedgeinc.com> writes:   I >>2) Can anyone direct me to a service that can read it for me? Southern oJ >>California would be a real plus. The tape is suddenly precious and they  >>don't want it out of site.  C > If you need someone to come onsite in that area, you might try tol> > hire Alan Frisbie.  His company name is Flying Disk Systems.  " Hi, my name is Alan Frisbie.   :-)  @ Do you mean out of site, or out of sight?   If the latter, it isA easier and quicker.   You bring the tape to my site and kick backdA with a $BEVERAGE while I pull the data off and put it on whateversD media you need.   The cost is simply for my time and any media used.4 If you like, I can even ftp the data to your system.  ? If you mean out of *site*, that is more difficult.   I can come'> use your system (assuming that it still works), but then there@ is the problem of moving the data to a system you can use it on.  : If your VAX doesn't have the necessary hardware or network> connection, then I would have to bring everything needed.   It= would cost your employeer a *lot* more, but it could be done.i= The danger is that some unforseen item will not be available,@ causing multiple trips.u  > I will be on vacation from June 27th through July 6th, so that9 should give you some time to investigate alternatives andc decide what you wish to do.J   Alan  < -- Alan E. Frisbie              Frisbie "AT" Flying-Disk.com -- Flying Disk Systems, Inc., -- 4759 Round Top Drive         323-256-2575 -- Los Angeles, CA 90065   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 13:53:28 -0700e. From: Gary Armstrong <garyarm@testedgeinc.com> Subject: Re: TK50 Need Helpt. Message-ID: <3EFB5D48.9060709@testedgeinc.com>   Gary Armstrong wrote:tI > Sorry, if you see multiple posts. I'm seeing 4 of the same. I swear, I r9 > hit send once. My wife would claim it's to much coffee.d >  > Gary >    And she would be correct!!!   J >> 2) Can anyone direct me to a service that can read it for me? Southern G >> California would be a real pluss. The tape is suddenly precious and w" >> they don't want it out of site. >>
 >> Why me? >> Garyv >> >   ; That would be sight. Driving anywhere in SoCal would be ok.    Gary   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 17:40:37 -0400i* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>+ Subject: Username/passwords for SMTP Servero) Message-ID: <3EFB6844.EE528718@istop.com>   D This subject has come up before, but for me, it comes up in reverse.  M I don't need my SMTP server to authenticate itself to some other SMTP server.mH However, I would like to have the ability to have a remote SMTP "server"S authenticate itself to my SMTP server which would then enable relaying of messages.e  N Think : employee at home connecting to work systems and using that SMTP serverM to deliver message to both intra and inter-nets. User would then authenticateaL himself to the VMS SMTP server which would grant him access to relaying (and; no spam blocks because his IP may be a dialup address etc).   4 Am I the only one to see this as a good suggestion ?   ------------------------------   Date: 26 Jun 2003 19:11 CDTt' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)s/ Subject: Re: Username/passwords for SMTP Servern- Message-ID: <26JUN200319110125@gerg.tamu.edu>e  . JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes...E }This subject has come up before, but for me, it comes up in reverse.n } N }I don't need my SMTP server to authenticate itself to some other SMTP server.I }However, I would like to have the ability to have a remote SMTP "server",T }authenticate itself to my SMTP server which would then enable relaying of messages. } O }Think : employee at home connecting to work systems and using that SMTP serveruN }to deliver message to both intra and inter-nets. User would then authenticateM }himself to the VMS SMTP server which would grant him access to relaying (andm< }no spam blocks because his IP may be a dialup address etc). } 5 }Am I the only one to see this as a good suggestion ?.  > Various industrial strength mail server software packages have this capability, such as PMDF.   --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 22:32:29 +0200a9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> 4 Subject: Re: WRQ Reflection and DEC escape sequences' Message-ID: <3EFB585D.C8488E24@aaa.com>o  3 I get exactly the same result with both parameters.D5 Using "Reflection 2 for Win NT Version 5.21" (the one % with Prusik Peak in the about box...)o  9 It gives a screen like this with both decsel and badsel :a    & [Start of screen, blank lines deleted]      $ TEST WITH ESCAPE SEQUENCE: <ESC>[2?K    8 Please enter selection: [this part is always cleared...]  : You entered: 12345 [but here are just the "new" characters overwritten...]h   [End of screen]r  % But with "2" and "?" changing places.s  B In both cases, the prompt is rediplayed without anything after it.   Regardst	 Jan-Erik.   ! VAXman-, @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:  > O > I'm wondering if I can get some assistance from those of you using loathesomet3 > PeeCees and the WRQ Reflection terminal emulator.d > N > I've encountered an issue at a customer site where Reflection is used with a9 > number of "home-grown" "terminal graphic" menu systems.i > N > The problem stems from the improper formation of the DECSEL sequence (Selec-N > tive erase in line).  The proper form is <ESC>[?2K.  Reflection, improperly,N > responds to <ESC>[2?K.  I cannot get beyond WRQ's first line of interference# > when I call them to discuss this.p > 4 > Here's a simple DCL procedure to demonstrate this. >  > $ SET NOVERIFY > $!++H > $! Execute this procedure with one of two arguments: DECSEL or BADSEL.C > $! For example:  $ @TEST-ESCAPE.COM DECSEL  (this uses <ESC>[?2K)  > $!G > $! This procedure should clear the screen and output a prompt at linehG > $! 15 on the screen.  Enter data such as: 1234567890 and hit <return>5G > $! The prompt should be redisplayed at line 15 with the previous dataiG > $! (eg. 1234567890) cleared away.  You can then enter new data.  This G > $! procedure will continue in a loop until contrl-Z is entered at the  > $! prompt. > $!4 > $! Now, repeat this test with the argument BADSEL.C > $! For example:  $ @TEST-ESCAPE.COM BADSEL  (this uses <ESC>[2?K)d > $!G > $! This procedure should clear the screen and output a prompt at lineoG > $! 15 on the screen.  Enter data such as: 1234567890 and hit <return>MG > $! The prompt should be redisplayed at line 15 with the previous dataiH > $! (eg. 1234567890) still displayed.  You can then enter new data atopH > $! of the previous data.  This procedure will continue in a loop until- > $! an uppercase X is entered at the prompt.a > $!++ > $ ESC[0,8] = 27d( > $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "''ESC'[2J''ESC'[H" > $ DECSEL = "''ESC'[?2K"i > $ BADSEL = "''ESC'[2?K"  > $lf > $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "''ESC'[10;1H''F$fao("TEST WITH ESCAPE SEQUENCE: <ESC>!AS",F$extract(1,-1,&P1))'" > $e	 > $ 100$: ^ > $ READ/END=200$/PROMPT="''ESC'[0m''ESC'[15;1H''&P1'Please enter selection: " SYS$COMMAND SEL6 > $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "''ESC'[20;1HYou entered: ''SEL'"
 > $ GOTO 100$i > $ 200$: EXIT > N > If you try this procedure and reproduce the problem, and it bothers you thatM > your Reflection is not faithfully emulating a VT, feel free to report it tob# > WRQ under your support agreement.  >  > Thanks >  > --Q > VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM  > 6 >   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 15:33:36 -0400s From: norm.raphael@metso.com4 Subject: Re: WRQ Reflection and DEC escape sequences? Message-ID: <OFD3BA3D30.D25378D6-ON85256D51.006A8F74@metso.com>f  + I'm not sure what's supposed to occur here.oK I get a prompt on line 15, fill in some numbers after it, they redisplay ona line 20, then the promptI redisplays without the numbers.  When I enter a new string of numbers, itj redisplays over whatH was on  line 20, not clearing any numbers at the end if my second string was shorter.   12345 shows 12345i 132  then shows 13245o  : This happens with either DECSEL or DECBAD on my emulators.  5 Is this what you predict?  for error or for no error?s    6 From:  VAXman-@SendSpamHere.ORG on 06/26/2003 01:21 PM  , Please respond to VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG   To:    Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com cc:i  3 Subject:    WRQ Reflection and DEC escape sequencesa    B I'm wondering if I can get some assistance from those of you using
 loathesome1 PeeCees and the WRQ Reflection terminal emulator.   J I've encountered an issue at a customer site where Reflection is used with ag7 number of "home-grown" "terminal graphic" menu systems.-  D The problem stems from the improper formation of the DECSEL sequence (Selec-e@ tive erase in line).  The proper form is <ESC>[?2K.  Reflection, improperly,g? responds to <ESC>[2?K.  I cannot get beyond WRQ's first line ofA interference! when I call them to discuss this.     2 Here's a simple DCL procedure to demonstrate this.   $ SET NOVERIFY $!++F $! Execute this procedure with one of two arguments: DECSEL or BADSEL.A $! For example:  $ @TEST-ESCAPE.COM DECSEL  (this uses <ESC>[?2K)t $!E $! This procedure should clear the screen and output a prompt at line.E $! 15 on the screen.  Enter data such as: 1234567890 and hit <return>aE $! The prompt should be redisplayed at line 15 with the previous data2E $! (eg. 1234567890) cleared away.  You can then enter new data.  This/E $! procedure will continue in a loop until contrl-Z is entered at theF
 $! prompt. $!2 $! Now, repeat this test with the argument BADSEL.A $! For example:  $ @TEST-ESCAPE.COM BADSEL  (this uses <ESC>[2?K)  $!E $! This procedure should clear the screen and output a prompt at line E $! 15 on the screen.  Enter data such as: 1234567890 and hit <return>nE $! The prompt should be redisplayed at line 15 with the previous datacF $! (eg. 1234567890) still displayed.  You can then enter new data atopF $! of the previous data.  This procedure will continue in a loop until+ $! an uppercase X is entered at the prompt.S $!++ $ ESC[0,8] = 27S& $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "''ESC'[2J''ESC'[H" $ DECSEL = "''ESC'[?2K"u $ BADSEL = "''ESC'[2?K"n $NC $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "''ESC'[10;1H''F$fao("TEST WITH ESCAPE SEQUENCE:a  <ESC>!AS",F$extract(1,-1,&P1))'" $X $ 100$:nJ $ READ/END=200$/PROMPT="''ESC'[0m''ESC'[15;1H''&P1'Please enter selection: " SYS$COMMAND SELN4 $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "''ESC'[20;1HYou entered: ''SEL'" $ GOTO 100$Y $ 200$: EXIT      G If you try this procedure and reproduce the problem, and it bothers you3 thatK your Reflection is not faithfully emulating a VT, feel free to report it toa! WRQ under your support agreement.    Thanks   --2 VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001 VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM  4   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 00:01:15 GMTe" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG4 Subject: Re: WRQ Reflection and DEC escape sequences0 Message-ID: <00A21FA6.2A3E415B@SendSpamHere.ORG>  ^ In article <OFD3BA3D30.D25378D6-ON85256D51.006A8F74@metso.com>, norm.raphael@metso.com writes: >r, >I'm not sure what's supposed to occur here.L >I get a prompt on line 15, fill in some numbers after it, they redisplay on >line 20, then the promptaJ >redisplays without the numbers.  When I enter a new string of numbers, it >redisplays over whatcI >was on  line 20, not clearing any numbers at the end if my second stringo
 >was shorter.y >m >12345 shows 12345 >132  then shows 13245 > ; >This happens with either DECSEL or DECBAD on my emulators.c > 6 >Is this what you predict?  for error or for no error?   Norm, no real VTs?  M The BADSEL is improper and should NOT delete the characters after the prompt.eM On a VT (I've tested VT220, VT320, a DECterm and VT525), the BADSEL will have + the prior data remain on the prompt line.  t    --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMy            a5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" o   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jun 2003 17:50:49 -0700# From: dooleys@snowy.net.au (dooley)m4 Subject: Re: WRQ Reflection and DEC escape sequences= Message-ID: <1ca82fc6.0306261650.4dcc93c3@posting.google.com>o  X VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote in message news:<00A21F6E.63BC8F02@SendSpamHere.ORG>...O > I'm wondering if I can get some assistance from those of you using loathesome 3 > PeeCees and the WRQ Reflection terminal emulator.  > N > I've encountered an issue at a customer site where Reflection is used with a; > number of "home-grown" "terminal graphic" menu systems.  v > N > The problem stems from the improper formation of the DECSEL sequence (Selec-N > tive erase in line).  The proper form is <ESC>[?2K.  Reflection, improperly,N > responds to <ESC>[2?K.  I cannot get beyond WRQ's first line of interference# > when I call them to discuss this.t >  > N > If you try this procedure and reproduce the problem, and it bothers you thatM > your Reflection is not faithfully emulating a VT, feel free to report it to0# > WRQ under your support agreement.r > M Unfortunately using Reflection 8.00.076 both escape sequences are interpreted H in the "correct" way, maybe [2?K was retained for compatibility reasons. Phil   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 06:38:53 +0200o" From: Moi <didier.morandi@free.fr> Subject: X11 proxy on VMS ?i' Message-ID: <3EFBCA5E.E45EE780@free.fr>n  F I'm looking for an X11 proxy ported to VMS - something like TIS's FWTKD x-gw or crl.dec.com's old and not-longer available xforward.  I needC to use it to effectively do X11 protocol conversion from ip to LAT:E   (best view : courier 10) +---------------+t |               |d1 | X Terminal 1  |      LAT      +---------------+v1 |               |---------------|               |n1 +---------------+               |               | I                                 |  SSH2 Client  |       +---------------+xI +---------------+               |               |       |  SSH2 Server  |AI |               |      LAT      |               |   ip  |               |:I | X Terminal 2  |---------------| Bastion Host  |-------|  Remote Host  |wI |               |               |               |       |               |eI +---------------+               |               |       |               | I                                 |      x-gw     |       +---------------+-1 +---------------+      LAT      |               |:1 |               |---------------|               |n1 | X Terminal 3  |               +---------------+  |               |w +---------------+f    E SSH is used to securely forward X11 over the Internet (ip) to a localrD VMS bastion host.  TIS' FWTK x-gw is an application-level proxy, butD uses underlying transports available.  The intention is for the x-gwE or xforwarder to allocate a virtual X server which is accessed by X11 B clients on the remote host using ip; and for the X Terminals to toF connect over the lan (lat) to the bastion and for the x-gw or xforward: proxy to access the X servers on the X Terminals over LAT.  G From a google search there appear to be no publicly published ports.  ImF wondered whether you knew of any (or an alternative solution.  The oneF constraint is that X NOT be transported to the X Terms via ip (because' the ip stack is highly unsatisfactory).1   Thanks 6   D.   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jun 2003 12:35:55 -05004 From: kuhrt@nospammy.encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt)2 Subject: zip program that handles multi-dot files?3 Message-ID: <Dvf3y1LRfFbL@eisner.encompasserve.org>   @ Is there a zip program out there that leaves multi-dot filenamesA as multi-dot (with escaping, or whatever it is called on ODS-5)? BA VMSTAR handles these, but my version of zip (UnZip 5.32) seems toa# replace multidots with underscores.p  > The problem I'm having is that some open source distributions,@ especially the PHP stuff I've been playing with recently, expect< filenames like my-special.config.php to be OK.  For the timeA being I've lucked out because the packages I've been playing withT; are distributed in tar _and_ zip formats.  In the long run,t7 though, I'd like to find a zip that does it right, too.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 20:27:02 +0200e+ From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl> 6 Subject: Re: zip program that handles multi-dot files?5 Message-ID: <bdfdto$rv58m$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>-  C "Marty Kuhrt" <kuhrt@nospammy.encompasserve.org> schreef in berichtr- news:Dvf3y1LRfFbL@eisner.encompasserve.org...)B > Is there a zip program out there that leaves multi-dot filenamesB > as multi-dot (with escaping, or whatever it is called on ODS-5)?C > VMSTAR handles these, but my version of zip (UnZip 5.32) seems tol% > replace multidots with underscores.  >e@ > The problem I'm having is that some open source distributions,B > especially the PHP stuff I've been playing with recently, expect> > filenames like my-special.config.php to be OK.  For the timeC > being I've lucked out because the packages I've been playing withw= > are distributed in tar _and_ zip formats.  In the long run,n9 > though, I'd like to find a zip that does it right, too.-   Did you use "-V" ?   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jun 2003 14:45:19 -05004 From: kuhrt@nospammy.encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt)6 Subject: Re: zip program that handles multi-dot files?3 Message-ID: <OKWV7+xfp6n0@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  c In article <bdfdto$rv58m$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>, "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl> writes:s > E > "Marty Kuhrt" <kuhrt@nospammy.encompasserve.org> schreef in berichtt/ > news:Dvf3y1LRfFbL@eisner.encompasserve.org...sC >> Is there a zip program out there that leaves multi-dot filenamesRC >> as multi-dot (with escaping, or whatever it is called on ODS-5)? D >> VMSTAR handles these, but my version of zip (UnZip 5.32) seems to& >> replace multidots with underscores. >>A >> The problem I'm having is that some open source distributions,9C >> especially the PHP stuff I've been playing with recently, expectf? >> filenames like my-special.config.php to be OK.  For the timefD >> being I've lucked out because the packages I've been playing with> >> are distributed in tar _and_ zip formats.  In the long run,: >> though, I'd like to find a zip that does it right, too. >  > Did you use "-V" ? >   > To restore an open source unix created zip file onto VMS?  How> would the "retain VMS version numbers" switch help that?  And,# yes, I tried it and it didn't work.i   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 20:45:28 -0500-1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> 6 Subject: Re: zip program that handles multi-dot files?' Message-ID: <3EFBA1B8.CFBE0C68@fsi.net>0   Marty Kuhrt wrote: > e > In article <bdfdto$rv58m$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>, "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl> writes:e > >>G > > "Marty Kuhrt" <kuhrt@nospammy.encompasserve.org> schreef in bericht,1 > > news:Dvf3y1LRfFbL@eisner.encompasserve.org...tE > >> Is there a zip program out there that leaves multi-dot filenamesrE > >> as multi-dot (with escaping, or whatever it is called on ODS-5)?rF > >> VMSTAR handles these, but my version of zip (UnZip 5.32) seems to( > >> replace multidots with underscores. > >>C > >> The problem I'm having is that some open source distributions,eE > >> especially the PHP stuff I've been playing with recently, expectoA > >> filenames like my-special.config.php to be OK.  For the timehF > >> being I've lucked out because the packages I've been playing with@ > >> are distributed in tar _and_ zip formats.  In the long run,< > >> though, I'd like to find a zip that does it right, too. > >n > > Did you use "-V" ? > >t > @ > To restore an open source unix created zip file onto VMS?  How@ > would the "retain VMS version numbers" switch help that?  And,% > yes, I tried it and it didn't work.e  H Trouble is, it's not the /VMS ("-V") option to ZIP that's at issue here.A The trouble is that V5.32 of UNZIP does not (AFAIK) include ODS-5i support.   -- h David J. Dachterae dba DJE Systemso http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/a   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.351 ************************