1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 30 Jun 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 358       Contents: Re: Bug in MAIL? Re: Bug in MAIL? Re: Bug in MAIL? Re: Bug in MAIL?% Re: CHANNELCNT warning - is it valid? % Re: CHANNELCNT warning - is it valid? % Re: CHANNELCNT warning - is it valid? % Re: CHANNELCNT warning - is it valid? " CNXMGRERR with V7.3-1 DSSI cluster: Re: Compaq Solutions Aliance - "Does" it still existing  ?: Re: Compaq Solutions Aliance - "Does" it still existing  ?: Re: Compaq Solutions Aliance - "Does" it still existing  ?: Re: Compaq Solutions Aliance - "Does" it still existing  ?6 RE: Compaq Solutions Aliance - Do it still existing  ?6 Re: Compaq Solutions Aliance - Do it still existing  ? Re: cxx performance / Dallas Security Seminar presentations available & DCPS F2.3 field test kit now available- DS25 dual power supplies - are they redundant 1 Re: DS25 dual power supplies - are they redundant ? duplicates of sysuaf.dat & rightlist.dat on VMS7.3-1 FC cluster ! Re: How do I turn on XFC caching? ! Re: How do I turn on XFC caching? ! Re: How do I turn on XFC caching? ! Re: How do I turn on XFC caching?  Re: HP to drop hpux? Re: HP to drop hpux?E HP Webcast this morning on Next-Generation Intel Itanium 2 processors I RE: HP Webcast this morning on Next-Generation Intel Itanium 2 processors 
 Re: interface 
 Re: interface 
 Re: interface K interface (was: RE: Compaq Solutions Aliance - "Does" it still existing  ?) O Re: interface (was: RE: Compaq Solutions Aliance - "Does" it still existing  ?) G interface (was: RE: Compaq Solutions Aliance - Do it still existing  ?) K Re: interface (was: RE: Compaq Solutions Aliance - Do it still existing  ?) . Re: Open VMS Alpha upgrade from 7.2-1 to 7.2-2. Re: Open VMS Alpha upgrade from 7.2-1 to 7.2-2) Re: OpenVMS Management  Tools for Windows F OpenVMS Pearl - OpenVMS V8.0, first release on Itanium, ships today!!!/ Re: OpenVMS Technical Seminar Highlights (some) / Re: OpenVMS Technical Seminar Highlights (some)  Re: Rethinking  V.M.S  Re: Rethinking  V.M.S  Running VMS off CD Re: StorageWorks question - 5 Re: Strange behavior of Backup/ign=inter on VMS 7.3-1 H Re: Subject: Reading long files in BASIC that appears to be "recordless" Re: VAX support  Re: VAX support  Re: VAX support  Re: VAX support  Re: VAX support  Re: VAX support B VAX support (was: Re: OpenVMS Technical Seminar Highlights (some))F Re: VAX support (was: Re: OpenVMS Technical Seminar Highlights (some)) Re: VMS backup to NFS shares Re: X11 proxy on VMS ?- Re: zip program that handles multi-dot files?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 10:23:04 +0000 (UTC) 7 From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)  Subject: Re: Bug in MAIL? ( Message-ID: <bdp328$26q$1@pcls4.std.com>  6 Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> writes:  " >%MAIL-E-FILNOTDEL, error deleting2 >%MANSON$DKA100:[USERS.DC]MAIL_2060021D_EDIT.TMP;*9 >-RMS-F-CHN, assign channel system service request failed - >-SYSTEM-F-NOIOCHAN, no I/O channel available     H >I'm guessing this is a bug in the way MAIL handles cleanup on exit.  ItM >shouldn't need that many channels.  Can anyone confirm if this is fixed in a  >later version?   I If you want to see this fixed (or get an official message saying this has E been fixed) I suggest filing a problem report with HP regarding this. G It looks like a simple coding bug where a channel is assigned to delete H each individual file within MAIL without a corresponding deassign in theE loop through the 255 files.  As mailbombing unfortunately will not be < going away any time soon, it's best this gets taken care of. --   -Mike    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 12:16:19 +0100 * From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]> Subject: Re: Bug in MAIL? ' Message-ID: <bdp6bc$d82$1@lore.csc.com>    "Doc.Cypher" wrote:  > @ > On 29 Jun 2003, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote:D > >In article <20030629210701.13411.qmail@nym.alias.net>, Doc.Cypher7 > ><Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> writes: : > >> On Sun, 29 Jun 2003, Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net> wrote: > >>>Doc.Cypher wrote:' > >>>> Following is on a v7.2 system...  > >>>> > >>>> MAIL> del 2-255 > >>>># > >>>> MAIL>  [Exit] ... [snip] ... ? > >>>> -RMS-F-CHN, assign channel system service request failed 3 > >>>> -SYSTEM-F-NOIOCHAN, no I/O channel available  > >>>> > >>>>N > >>>> I'm guessing this is a bug in the way MAIL handles cleanup on exit.  ItN > >>>> shouldn't need that many channels.  Can anyone confirm if this is fixed > >>>> in a  > >>>> later version?  > >>> ; > >>>What's the value of your SYSGEN parameter CHANNELCNT ?  > >> > >> Not my system :)  > > 3 > >       $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$GETSYI("CHANNELCNT")  > 	 > Thanks!  >  > returned value is 255.  < And the FILLM for the process, um [guesses], 300 or greater?  E Either reduce the FILLM to 240, or increase CHANNELCNT to FILLM + 15.   G This is one of the side effects of CHANNELCNT being too low compared to  FILLM. [NOIOCHAN]. --  ? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------    Date: 30 Jun 2003 11:15:08 -00004 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> Subject: Re: Bug in MAIL? 6 Message-ID: <20030630111508.13648.qmail@nym.alias.net>  M On Mon, 30 Jun 2003, moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) wrote: 7 >Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> writes:  > # >>%MAIL-E-FILNOTDEL, error deleting 3 >>%MANSON$DKA100:[USERS.DC]MAIL_2060021D_EDIT.TMP;* : >>-RMS-F-CHN, assign channel system service request failed. >>-SYSTEM-F-NOIOCHAN, no I/O channel available >  > I >>I'm guessing this is a bug in the way MAIL handles cleanup on exit.  It N >>shouldn't need that many channels.  Can anyone confirm if this is fixed in a >>later version? > J >If you want to see this fixed (or get an official message saying this hasF >been fixed) I suggest filing a problem report with HP regarding this.H >It looks like a simple coding bug where a channel is assigned to deleteI >each individual file within MAIL without a corresponding deassign in the F >loop through the 255 files.  As mailbombing unfortunately will not be= >going away any time soon, it's best this gets taken care of.   K Too true about the mailbombing.  I took an anti-nausea pill for the cookies F and hit hp.com.  Eventually guessing at security-alert<at>hp<dot>com.      Doc. --  K OpenVMS.         Eight out of ten hackers prefer *other* operating systems.    ------------------------------    Date: 30 Jun 2003 11:36:09 -00004 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> Subject: Re: Bug in MAIL? 6 Message-ID: <20030630113609.22610.qmail@nym.alias.net>  @ On Mon, 30 Jun 2003, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]> wrote: >"Doc.Cypher" wrote: >>  A >> On 29 Jun 2003, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote: E >> >In article <20030629210701.13411.qmail@nym.alias.net>, Doc.Cypher   ( >> >>>> Following is on a v7.2 system... >> >>>>  >> >>>> MAIL> del 2-255  >> >>>> $ >> >>>> MAIL>  [Exit] ... [snip] ...@ >> >>>> -RMS-F-CHN, assign channel system service request failed4 >> >>>> -SYSTEM-F-NOIOCHAN, no I/O channel available >> >>>>  >> >>>> O >> >>>> I'm guessing this is a bug in the way MAIL handles cleanup on exit.  It O >> >>>> shouldn't need that many channels.  Can anyone confirm if this is fixed  >> >>>> in a >> >>>> later version? >> >>>< >> >>>What's the value of your SYSGEN parameter CHANNELCNT ? >> >>  >> >> Not my system :) >> >4 >> >       $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$GETSYI("CHANNELCNT") >>  
 >> Thanks! >>   >> returned value is 255.  > = >And the FILLM for the process, um [guesses], 300 or greater?   % You've been peeking. :)  Exactly 300.   F >Either reduce the FILLM to 240, or increase CHANNELCNT to FILLM + 15. > H >This is one of the side effects of CHANNELCNT being too low compared to >FILLM. [NOIOCHAN].   L Explains why the problem was not observed with the SYSTEM account.  Wish I'dJ read that before mailing security-alert, but there is another issue there.  N I'll schedule an autogen of the system sometime this week, that should resolve# this and a couple of other niggles.      Doc. --  K OpenVMS.         Eight out of ten hackers prefer *other* operating systems.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 10:50:25 +0100 * From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]>. Subject: Re: CHANNELCNT warning - is it valid?' Message-ID: <bdp1ab$bov$1@lore.csc.com>    "Bradford J. Hamilton" wrote:  >  >   CHANNELCNT > B >        CHANNELCNT specifies the number of permanent I/O channels! >        available to the system.  >   N > Aside from changing CHANNELCNT under recommendation from hp or a third-partyM > software vendor, is there a good reason to leave CHANNELCNT alone?  Is this ? > warning a remnant from an earlier time, or is it still valid?   F CHANNELCNT is a per process restriction for all processes system wide,G further limited by the FILLM setting per process. A FILLM must never be H bigger than CHANNELCNT + 15. Well it can, just odd things happen. (Never seen it really cause grief).  H The overhead in P1 (pageable) space is 16 bytes per BALSETCNT process onA a VAX, and 32 bytes on Alpha. Multiply the figures up to whatever 1 CHANNELCNT is to see what the memory overhead is.   F You've had suggestions where it can help. Some areas are a little moreA subtle. e.g. the linker, if you are linking more discrete modules D together than your FILLM, you can improve your performance a little.H (Observed on Alpha). However after that episode, the linking process was; redesigned (after some readers here choke on their coffee).  --  ? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 10:31:14 +0000 (UTC) 7 From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) . Subject: Re: CHANNELCNT warning - is it valid?( Message-ID: <bdp3hi$26q$2@pcls4.std.com>  6 brad@.gateway.2wire.net (Bradford J. Hamilton) writes:  M >Aside from changing CHANNELCNT under recommendation from hp or a third-party L >software vendor, is there a good reason to leave CHANNELCNT alone?  Is this> >warning a remnant from an earlier time, or is it still valid?  J I'm going to guess it's a warning from the days when memory was expensive F and limited, as most likely memory is consumed at the rate of (N bytesG of nonpaged pool) times (number of potential channels) times (number of D active processes).  It may be there is a loop through all potential E channels to clean things up so that increasing channels unnecessarily & may slow something down unnecessarily. --   -Mike    ------------------------------    Date: 30 Jun 2003 08:39:55 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) . Subject: Re: CHANNELCNT warning - is it valid?3 Message-ID: <SNJAKCPbAV2X@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <3EFFC268.5090801@tsoft-inc.com>, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:  > Q > Well, it's a maximum.  There's no rule that says the system has to use as many  S > channels as it's allowed to.  The individual processes are limited by the SYSUAF  N > data.  Setting CHANNELCNT to some ridiculously high value should not hurt a 5 > system, however, it might wreck havoc with AUTOGEN.   A    Actually there is memeory reserved for all those channels.  On ?    todays' systems that's not a terrible big lot of memory, but =    it's worth a few seconds' thought before cranking it up to     insanely large values.    ------------------------------    Date: 30 Jun 2003 10:53:36 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) . Subject: Re: CHANNELCNT warning - is it valid?3 Message-ID: <5G13ktr0j2hg@eisner.encompasserve.org>   T In article <bdp1ab$bov$1@lore.csc.com>, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]> writes: > "Bradford J. Hamilton" wrote:  >>   >>   CHANNELCNT  >>  C >>        CHANNELCNT specifies the number of permanent I/O channels " >>        available to the system. >>   > O >> Aside from changing CHANNELCNT under recommendation from hp or a third-party N >> software vendor, is there a good reason to leave CHANNELCNT alone?  Is this@ >> warning a remnant from an earlier time, or is it still valid? > H > CHANNELCNT is a per process restriction for all processes system wide,I > further limited by the FILLM setting per process. A FILLM must never be J > bigger than CHANNELCNT + 15. Well it can, just odd things happen. (Never > seen it really cause grief). > J > The overhead in P1 (pageable) space is 16 bytes per BALSETCNT process onC > a VAX, and 32 bytes on Alpha. Multiply the figures up to whatever 3 > CHANNELCNT is to see what the memory overhead is.  > H > You've had suggestions where it can help. Some areas are a little moreC > subtle. e.g. the linker, if you are linking more discrete modules F > together than your FILLM, you can improve your performance a little.J > (Observed on Alpha). However after that episode, the linking process was= > redesigned (after some readers here choke on their coffee).   > 	As another data point, you can scour the web and find various> 	CHANNELCNT recommendations.  The one for NetBearns on OpenVMS' 	recommends raising CHANNELCNT to 2000.   h http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/ips/netbeans/docs/NETBEANS332_INSTALLATION_GUIDE_OPENVMS.HTML  " The recommended SYSGEN values are:     CHANNELCNT  at least 2000   * WSMAX       at least the value of WSEXTENT  8 	There are backup tuning articles in DSNlink.  Recommend 		FILLM = CHANNELCNT - 15 4 	Where FILLM is your UAF setting for backup account.  9 	I've set Channelcnt to 2000 or so, when bored I watch to < 	see how many channels are open on backup.  Rarely more than 	a couple dozen.   				Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 14:16:43 +0200 < From: "Martin Vorlaender" <martin.vorlaender@pdv-systeme.de>+ Subject: CNXMGRERR with V7.3-1 DSSI cluster 4 Message-ID: <bdp9nb$ve9qu$1@ID-56200.news.dfncis.de>   Hi,   B I wonder whether anyone has experienced the same strange thing I'm seeing here.  A Environment is a two-node cluster of 2-CPU AlphaServer 4000s both E running a fully patched VMS 7.3-1. Each node has its own system disk. D All disks are connected via KFPSAs to two HSDs (including the quorum= disk). Ethernet is all DE602-AA with the first port providing C connectivity, and the second one connecting the two machines with a B crossover cable (as a means of failover cluster interconnect). All  ports are set to auto-negotiate.  C As long as both machines boot at the same time, all is well. When I @ boot either machine alone, it comes up okay. But: when the otherB machine boots, the second machine bugchecks as soon as the clusterC is to be formed (most times with CNXMGRERR in SYS$CLUSTER, but I've B seen INVEXCEPTN in SYS$SCS as well). What bothers me is that it isB reliably only the second machine that crashes, i.e. boot A - okay;< boot B - B crashes. Boot B - okay; boot A - B crashes again.   HELP!    Thanks in advance.   cu,    Martin --  F   OpenVMS:                | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer3    The operating system   | work: mv@pdv-systeme.de F    God runs the           |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/:    earth simulation on.   | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 14:27:53 GMT 9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> C Subject: Re: Compaq Solutions Aliance - "Does" it still existing  ? 2 Message-ID: <JNXLa.3569$ls7.1840@news.cpqcorp.net>  ; "Fabio Cardoso" <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote in message : news:20030629211734.51598.qmail@web20208.mail.yahoo.com... > People > < > This is because I think OVMS should have an better graphic? > interface. You cannot run away from th GUI. Of course command < > line still important but we dont have a graphical terminal9 > development in the past 10 years. May be the future for D > OVMS is a Citrix Server like product. Or may be porting some linux4 > graphic interface. Or may be Amiga Intuition ! :-) >   L I'm not quite sure what you mean here.  The graphics interface is X11/Motif.G Which is the standard interface on pretty much every UNIX.  But in many G ways, like UNIX - the typical *system* programmer/user tends to use the I command line interface and not the GUI interfaces.  From a user interface K programming perspective, tools like BX allow you to create Motif (and JAVA) K independent of the underlying OS.  A lot of user interface stuff these days 1 is browser/JAVA - of which VMS does provide both.   : > What will be th next VT terminal ?  The OVMS engineering@ > should think about the clients too... an OS is not just kernel > and communication protocols. >   K The next "VT terminal"?  A thin client running an embedded Windows or Linux D OS, using a web browser & JAVA.  Citrix, VT525 emulation (for legacyI terminal applications), and an X11 emulator.  Pretty much what the Multia ) wanted to be (but was way too early for).    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 15:39:38 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> C Subject: Re: Compaq Solutions Aliance - "Does" it still existing  ? 0 Message-ID: <bdpi3a$206$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:= > "Fabio Cardoso" <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote in message < > news:20030629211734.51598.qmail@web20208.mail.yahoo.com... >  >>People >>< >>This is because I think OVMS should have an better graphic? >>interface. You cannot run away from th GUI. Of course command < >>line still important but we dont have a graphical terminal9 >>development in the past 10 years. May be the future for D >>OVMS is a Citrix Server like product. Or may be porting some linux4 >>graphic interface. Or may be Amiga Intuition ! :-) >> >  > N > I'm not quite sure what you mean here.  The graphics interface is X11/Motif.I > Which is the standard interface on pretty much every UNIX.  But in many I > ways, like UNIX - the typical *system* programmer/user tends to use the K > command line interface and not the GUI interfaces.  From a user interface M > programming perspective, tools like BX allow you to create Motif (and JAVA) M > independent of the underlying OS.  A lot of user interface stuff these days 3 > is browser/JAVA - of which VMS does provide both.  >  > : >>What will be th next VT terminal ?  The OVMS engineering@ >>should think about the clients too... an OS is not just kernel >>and communication protocols. >> >   ; The SunRay model would be a sensible choice for OpenVMS, it - would leverage its background as a server OS.    Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 16:45:10 GMT 9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> C Subject: Re: Compaq Solutions Aliance - "Does" it still existing  ? 2 Message-ID: <qOZLa.3576$6Y6.3454@news.cpqcorp.net>  ' "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" > >  > = > The SunRay model would be a sensible choice for OpenVMS, it / > would leverage its background as a server OS.  >   < SunRay's only attractive feature is the "smart card" access.  K As far as I know, the server software for SunRay is Sun proprietary.  It is I sort-of a VNC-like virtual server connection, where the X11 Server itself H runs a dumb CFB in-memory on a host Solaris server system, and then doesE compressed blits to a dedicated LAN for SunRays, and recieves packets + containing mouse/kb events from the SunRay.   K This means that graphics performance is limited by:  the number of SunRays, I the additional processing load on the server, and the network connection. C It's probably "ok" for what it is designed for - simple menu & text K applications.   I imagine even some simple operations might be costly - say K an XOR rubberband line on a diagonal.  Either there is far too much data to H be sent, or the CPU cost on the server to do image differences, or otherK latency effects if it decomposed to a series of small images.  The need for G it's own private LAN would seem to point to the fact that it is latency F sensitive and bandwidth hungry.  But I guess it would sell lots of big$ backroom servers just to drive them.  J No.  I think something like a EVO would be better suited for todays world:  3 http://h18004.www1.hp.com/products/thinclients/t30/    or  5 http://h18004.www1.hp.com/products/thinclients/t5700/   K Today's applications are all about using web browser and Java applets.  Use L Citrix to get to your remote Windows applications, an X11 server/emulator toK display your X11 applications, terminal emulators to get to your OS command 4 line prompts and legacy terminal based applications.  J Yeah, most of these are Windows CE or XP based under the covers.  But hey,J most of the worlds desktops *are* Windows.  And most customers have a needG to run Windows applications even if they continue to use VMS or UNIX or  LINUX on their servers.   L A VT320 didn't run an OS, it was just an appliance.  A thin client should beL viewed as just a desktop appliance like the terminal.  Just make sure it hasH all the right connections, to get to all your server systems.  The thinkH clients above have no real moving parts.  Just turn them on.  They don'tI require virtual servers on a host to operate, or a private LAN.  They are K flexible, and OS neutral.   They are *not* the perfect solution for someone % who really wants a VMS "workstation".    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 18:14:19 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> C Subject: Re: Compaq Solutions Aliance - "Does" it still existing  ? 0 Message-ID: <bdpr5c$55o$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:) > "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" > >  > = >>The SunRay model would be a sensible choice for OpenVMS, it / >>would leverage its background as a server OS.  >> >  > > > SunRay's only attractive feature is the "smart card" access. > M > As far as I know, the server software for SunRay is Sun proprietary.  It is K > sort-of a VNC-like virtual server connection, where the X11 Server itself J > runs a dumb CFB in-memory on a host Solaris server system, and then doesG > compressed blits to a dedicated LAN for SunRays, and recieves packets - > containing mouse/kb events from the SunRay.  > M > This means that graphics performance is limited by:  the number of SunRays, K > the additional processing load on the server, and the network connection. E > It's probably "ok" for what it is designed for - simple menu & text M > applications.   I imagine even some simple operations might be costly - say M > an XOR rubberband line on a diagonal.  Either there is far too much data to J > be sent, or the CPU cost on the server to do image differences, or otherM > latency effects if it decomposed to a series of small images.  The need for I > it's own private LAN would seem to point to the fact that it is latency H > sensitive and bandwidth hungry.  But I guess it would sell lots of big& > backroom servers just to drive them. > L > No.  I think something like a EVO would be better suited for todays world: >   E I am using a SunRay to post this mail, graphics performance is good,  @ MPEG videos work fine for example. It isn't a 3D device but then@ the vast majority of desktops don't need high performance 3D and: X11 to a remote display was never that great at it anyway.  > CPU cost is low, we run our desktop environment in this office< which is ~50 SunRays using a 6 CPU E4500 (400 Mhz) with 6 GB= of RAM. Performance is good, shared libs and shared code keep @ the memory footprint down and we have competely silent desktops.  ? I have an Sunblade as well, I prefer the SunRay but our support = group won't give me root access to the SunRay server so I use ? the SunRay for normal use and the Sunblade if I want to install  or test something.  < The SunRays do have a separate network, however this isn't a; problem, we just have a network in the machine room for the 8 other servers and the SunRay server and then two desktop6 LAN's. 1 small one for non SunRay clients and a larger one for SunRays.    5 > http://h18004.www1.hp.com/products/thinclients/t30/  >  > or > 7 > http://h18004.www1.hp.com/products/thinclients/t5700/  > M > Today's applications are all about using web browser and Java applets.  Use N > Citrix to get to your remote Windows applications, an X11 server/emulator toM > display your X11 applications, terminal emulators to get to your OS command 6 > line prompts and legacy terminal based applications. >   H SunRays in this environment have the great advantage of no having to runD and X-Terminal emulation, that and having a native Tarantella client? means that they perform rather well for this kind of mixed mode  environment.  L > Yeah, most of these are Windows CE or XP based under the covers.  But hey,L > most of the worlds desktops *are* Windows.  And most customers have a needI > to run Windows applications even if they continue to use VMS or UNIX or  > LINUX on their servers.  > N > A VT320 didn't run an OS, it was just an appliance.  A thin client should beN > viewed as just a desktop appliance like the terminal.  Just make sure it hasJ > all the right connections, to get to all your server systems.  The thinkJ > clients above have no real moving parts.  Just turn them on.  They don'tK > require virtual servers on a host to operate, or a private LAN.  They are M > flexible, and OS neutral.   They are *not* the perfect solution for someone ' > who really wants a VMS "workstation".  >   B Th SunRay doesn't run an OS, and like your VT320's which had theirC dedicated Serial connection to the host each SunRay uses a 100BaseT . connection into a generally dedicated network.  D We never have to upgrade the SunRay's and they leverage something we  have plenty of which is servers.   Regards  Andrew Harrison  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 13:45:33 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG? Subject: RE: Compaq Solutions Aliance - Do it still existing  ? 0 Message-ID: <00A22274.D1372DAF@SendSpamHere.ORG>  _ In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKEOOHHAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:  {...snip...}  G >So use another browser, or are you just complaining that the available  >browsers are relics?   G Relic, ancient artifact, prehistoric curio, etc. aside, that is not the G point.  Everytime this topic comes up, it erodes into the same old shit  about using Billy'$ warez.    F I can do my on-line banking *securely* with NS 3.03b 128 bit!  What isF there that needs to be so tightly stuck up Micro$haft's output side ofE its alimentary canal on HP's /DSPP pages such that I cannot register?   F And why is it that everytime this topic arises here, instead of tryingF to get HP to relax it incestuous buggery of all things Micro$haft, you folks give up and cry uncle?   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 13:59:00 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG? Subject: Re: Compaq Solutions Aliance - Do it still existing  ? 0 Message-ID: <00A22276.B23AEC74@SendSpamHere.ORG>  [ In article <3EFF4006.8E70239C@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:  >Tom Linden wrote: >>  F >> If you think you can avoid using windows (or mac perhaps) in todaysI >> world you are swimming against a verey strong current.  My windows box M >> has at least one window open (using Putty) to each cluster member, one for G >> for a router, one for the browser, and one for Outlook pop client to  >> TCPIP5.1 smtp.  >>   >> What could easier?  > F >Believe it or else, there are folks here who find WhineBloze rather aH >puzzlement, since they are hard-core VMS hackers. Forcing them to learn@ >a new platform distracts them from their bread-and-butter work.  J Exactly.  I have no need to use any PeeCee for what feeds me and my familyJ and keeps the stout gas cylinder filled on my home Guinness draught setup.  I Everytime I have been forced to use one of Billy's much touted "intuitive J GUI" systems, I reach the point where I look like Arnold Schwarzenegger inK Total Recall when he is tossed out on the Martian surface before the gener- K ation of its atmosphere and I want to tear out every strand of my hair (and J if you know me, I have much of that to pull).  Such torment is unnecessaryL in my already too tormented life for a simple program registration the likes	 of /DSPP.    --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 12:04:47 +0100 * From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]> Subject: Re: cxx performance' Message-ID: <bdp5lo$d20$1@lore.csc.com>    Joshua Lehrer wrote: > h > "Ed Vogel" <edward.vogel_nospam@hp.com> wrote in message news:<IBYKa.3511$VD3.953@news.cpqcorp.net>... > O > >     Given the current demands on the engineering team (porting to IPF comes  > > to mind), I would doubt L > >     that cxxc_bugs 10188 will get to the "top of our list" anytime soon.& > > Just the same, we do have a recordN > >     of it, and if other customers raise similar issues, we will raise it's
 > > priority.  > > - > >     I hope this explains what's going on.  > >  > >     Ed Vogel( > >     HP C/C++ for OpenVMS Engineering > G > I have been focusing on the efficiency of our build system here for a E > few months now.  We have found that the compiler is extremely slow. B > It seems to be very IO intensive to the directories where common > header files are stored. > F > My analysis shows that it does attempt some cacheing of the includedG > header files, but it still does a few ios on each successive include, E > presumably to get the fileID to look up in some internal cache.  We G > have started guarding our includes in the included AND including file F > in order to improve things.  This, however, is hard to mainting, andH > we can't possibly go back and retrofit our entire system (we have over > 15k source files). > = > Other compilers solve this problem with #pragma ONCE and/or F > precompiled headers.  Depending upon the implementation, these could > be a huge win for us.  > G > Our system requires almost 24 hours to build.  Getting this time down A > is a high priority here (as is switching to the 6.5 compilers).   F From your description, I would place a priority on increasing the ACP_F caches to bring the hit % as noted in AUTOGEN to or above 95% hit. I'd? also try some other approaches, DFU has a directory compression A function, use that before a compilation (this speeds up directory H lookups), have generous CHANNELCNT and corresponding FILLM (not sure howF the compilers and linkers for C fare here YMMV). Have generous working sets.   E You could consider hardware mirrored disks, or even volume shadowing,  for performance of reads.   H I also mentioned BYPASS privilege in a previous message. The reason here? is that file protection lookups are skipped when it is granted.   ? If you are pre 7.3 I'd also consider a third party disk cacher.   A This list is not exhaustive, there are more things which could be G relevant, and most of the stuff above targets the I/O side of life, and H if you're running high on CPU usage, it's not going to buy you much more" time unless we're saving overhead.  ! BTW, Any relation to Tom Lehrer ?  --  ? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------    Date: 30 Jun 2003 08:41:09 -07001 From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski) 8 Subject: Dallas Security Seminar presentations available= Message-ID: <857e9e41.0306300741.4f905c43@posting.google.com>    Dear Folks,   F Last week there was a security seminar in Dallas.  Those presentations: are now available on http://vmsone.com/web_sec/index.html.   Speakers were:? Linda C. Groves,  Assistant U.S. Attorney Deputy Criminal Chief  Cybercrime/Terrorism Section> Kevin M. Nixon Sr. Director, Security Business Strategy  Chief( Security Officer's Staff Cable &Wireless/ Leo Demers, HP OpenVMS Security Product Manager 9 John Wisniewski, HP Security Services Solutions Architect   
 Warm Regards,  Sue    -----Original Message-----* From: Wisniewski, John (OpenVMS Services) # Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2003 9:45 PM F To: cynthia.nichols@usdoj.gov; Kevin.Nixon@cw.com; bill.hancock@cw.comE Cc: Howard, Dale; Demers, Leo; Novak, Craig R; tshannon3@comcast.net;  Skonetski, SusanF Subject: Security seminar WEBsite http://vmsone.com/web_sec/index.html     Speakers, Everyone,   F Thank you for participating in the Security Seminar Last week!   We've put up your PPT ( Presentations on the following webpages:  $ http://vmsone.com/web_sec/index.html    C Susan, will you forward the URL to the Usual mailing list for those" who are interested In Computer Security.t  B Craig, will you send mail follow-up to the attendees with the URL.  @ Once again thanks to everyone, the people who attended were very impressed and very5 Pleased with the seminar that was presented for them.d     All my best,   John Wisniewskin OpenVMS Services 214-215-7346   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Jun 2003 09:04:34 -07001 From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski)g/ Subject: DCPS F2.3 field test kit now availableo= Message-ID: <857e9e41.0306300804.77513b88@posting.google.com>e  ! From: 	Anderson, Paul (OpenVMS)  u$ Sent:	Friday, June 27, 2003 10:27 AM@ To:	Akiyoshi, Masamichi; Bahn, Terry; Braam, Robert; Cote, Mike;D Downing, Gilbert (Gold Support); Finney, John (Gold Support); Fiore,> Anthony (Tony); Hanley, William; Hockett, John; Kamath, HarishA (Digital GlobalSoft); Klingelberger, Roy; Labadie, Gerard; Lucre,pD Paul; Meier, Al; Muralidharan, Sundaram (Digital GlobalSoft); Novey,E Judy; Overmeyer, Robert; Richardson, Rich; Russell, Lynda; Skonetski, ? Susan; Stefanelli, Marc; Webb, Mike (GOLD VMS); Wilson, Howard;e< Youngwirth, Barbara; Zimprich, Bob; nacgs cssc bcesysmgt all+ Subject:	DCPS F2.3 field test kit availablea   All,  ? OpenVMS Engineering is pleased to announce that a field test ofnD DECprint Supervisor (DCPS) V2.3, called DCPS F2.3, is now available.  B The major feature of this release is the addition of LPD support. ? Printing via LPD allows printing to printers that don't supportWA bi-directional IP communications.  DCPS F2.3 adds support for the. following printers:a  5 HP Color LaserJet 8500, 8550 (LPD and AppleTalk only) 7 HP LaserJet 2300 (supported in V2.2 but not documented)   F Additional printer support will be added in later field test versions,$ and the final release, of DCPS V2.3.  @ Anyone interested in printing DCPS jobs via LPD is encouraged to install the field test.t  B DCPS F2.3 includes the changes made for the earlier DCPS T2.2-STP4	 test kit.s  E Please see the F2.3 Release Notes for a full list of enhancements and-? bug fixes and instructions for setting up LPD queues.  The SPD,@D Software Installation Guide, System Manager's Guide and User's GuideD have not been changed for this release, but will be available later.  F DCPS F2.3 will expire on April 1, 2004.  DCPS V2.3 is expected to ship@ in October 2003.  Comments, questions or problems with DCPS F2.3@ should be entered in the POSTSCRIPT_PRINTING Notes conference on1 HUMANE or directed to me at paul.anderson@hp.com.    Paul    Paul Anderson   OpenVMS Engineering    Hewlett-Packard Companyh   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Jun 2003 06:13:08 -07006 From: andrew.rycroft@intrinsitech.com (Andrew Rycroft)6 Subject: DS25 dual power supplies - are they redundant= Message-ID: <58ba0101.0306300513.55035e39@posting.google.com>d   Hi,   @ I have a DS25 with a single processor, and 1GB of memory runningB OpenVMS. By default the systems come with 2 power supplies, and an" optional third for N+1 redundancy.  F Will the dual power supplies I have currently provide redundancy, i.e.F do I really need two power supplies to drive 1CPU, and 1GB of memory ?F The DS25 technical summary is very confusing on this, and the response I have received is confusing.    Thanks Andrew   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 09:16:44 -0400., From: "Island" <dbturner@nospamislandco.com>: Subject: Re: DS25 dual power supplies - are they redundant/ Message-ID: <vg0e5brs5k8s3f@news.supernews.com>   K If the DS20e and DS25 are the same design, then you need 2 P/S for standardr running.I If one of the P/Supplies dies in the 2 P/S configuration, the system will>I allow you a short period of time to prepare for shutdown (I thin about 30y minutes) or to replace it.K You really should get the third P/S as they run at about $500 - not much to> pay for the added security   DT   -- I David B Turner Island Computers US Corporationn 2700 Gregory St., Suite 180a Savannah GA 31404i Tel: 912 447 6622i Fax: 912 201 0402v Email: dbturner@hpaq.net http://www.hpaq.net    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 18:45:12 +0200 3 From: "Salvi Schrijen" <salvi.schrijen@vodafone.nl>hH Subject: duplicates of sysuaf.dat & rightlist.dat on VMS7.3-1 FC cluster* Message-ID: <bdpplb$r27$1@reader08.wxs.nl>   Did anyone see this before:H  H last night our VMS7.3-1 dual node es40 fiberchannel cluster (latest scsiL patches installed) generated about 26 versions of sysuaf.dat & rightlist.datD files all with the same creationdate and the modificationdate within milliseconds !!-D The queue manager locked sysuaf.dat;23 while the audit_server locked sysuaf.dat;26.K This is very strange and i have never seen this before and to be honest, itm scares me very much....MH Needless to say that the operator.log and auditfiles did not contain any clue.CJ Logicals like sysuaf.dat is set in the system_table and is pointing at the right file.n0 ana/disk does also not discover any problems....  H Does anybody know about this scary behaviour and/or any solution ???!!??   regardsN Salvi Schrijen Vodafone       --   Met vriendelijke groet  
 Beate SchmitzL Malbergstraat 27 6367 BT  Voerendaald Tel/Fax: 045-5754436 e-mail: beate.schmitz@hetnet.nls   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 07:14:25 -0700t. From: "David D Miller" <ddmiller@raytheon.com>* Subject: Re: How do I turn on XFC caching?F Message-ID: <OF3A51B7FE.F6B8AFF4-ON07256D55.004E03B3@rsc.raytheon.com>   Folks:  K I can't get XFC to work either.  Is there a 7.3 patch?  I haven't been able  to locate it online.   dave.e    ( $ write sys$output f$getsyi("arch_name") VAXg  & $ write sys$output f$getsyi("version") V7.3   $ mc sysgen sho vcc_flag	 ParameteriF Name            Current    Default     Min.     Max.     Unit  DynamicE --------------  -------    -------    -------  -------   ---- -------M@ VCC_FLAGS_D        2          0         0       255 Bitmask    D   $ sho mem/cache/fullA                System Memory Resources on 28-JUN-2003 15:04:29.76r   Virtual I/O CacheH8      Total Size (pages)               0    Read IO Count 39499      Free Pages                       0    Read Hit CountN 0C8      Pages in Use                     0    Read Hit Rate 0%9      Maximum Size (SPTEs)             0    Write IO Countl 34A      Files Retained                   0    IO Bypassing the Cache, 318C   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 15:24:41 +0100 * From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>* Subject: Re: How do I turn on XFC caching?+ Message-ID: <bdph7a$m42@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>   9 "David D Miller" <ddmiller@raytheon.com> wrote in message>@ news:OF3A51B7FE.F6B8AFF4-ON07256D55.004E03B3@rsc.raytheon.com...  M > I can't get XFC to work either.  Is there a 7.3 patch?  I haven't been ablem > to locate it online. > * > $ write sys$output f$getsyi("arch_name") > VAXt  / XFC is Alpha only. Or maybe Alpha/Itanium only.>   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 08:16:34 -0700H. From: "David D Miller" <ddmiller@raytheon.com>* Subject: Re: How do I turn on XFC caching?F Message-ID: <OF5E21F282.79D5BD15-ON07256D55.0053C859@rsc.raytheon.com>   I knew that ... :)  ' So, how does on turn on the  VAX cache?N   dave.M   Richard Brodie wrote ...  9 "David D Miller" <ddmiller@raytheon.com> wrote in messageL@ news:OF3A51B7FE.F6B8AFF4-ON07256D55.004E03B3@rsc.raytheon.com...  H > I can't get XFC to work either.  Is there a 7.3 patch?  I haven't been able > to locate it online. > * > $ write sys$output f$getsyi("arch_name") > VAXs  / XFC is Alpha only. Or maybe Alpha/Itanium only.h   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 16:19:58 +0100f+ From: John Laird <john@laird-towers.org.uk>-* Subject: Re: How do I turn on XFC caching?8 Message-ID: <a6l0gv8jas7mdka2jtfi53kkdhhk15bk4t@4ax.com>  L On Mon, 30 Jun 2003 08:16:34 -0700, "David D Miller" <ddmiller@raytheon.com> wrote:   >I knew that ... :)m >o( >So, how does on turn on the  VAX cache?   RTFM ;-)   Set VBN_CACHE_S to 1.      	John/   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 10:53:15 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>h Subject: Re: HP to drop hpux?N0 Message-ID: <bdp1ab$pkd$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Keith Parris wrote:t > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<bdedcq$8n9$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...  > = >>Well HP will be starting from zero in the Linux R&D stakes,u? >>as there is nothing of note that HP have donated to the Linux  >>community so far.b >  > D > All the communities which make up the current HP: Digital, Compaq,= > Tandem, and pre-merger HP itself, have all made significant H > contributions to Linux and to the open-source movement in general, notG > only in contributing time, effort, and code, but also leadership (fore3 > example, Jon "Maddog" Hall came from DEC/Compaq).  >   ? You clearly don't want to mention the departure of Bruce Perenst
 why not ??    E > From Tandem after the Compaq acquisition came the 'NonStop ClustersrG > for Unixware' Single System Image clustering code base that forms theSG > foundation of the Linux HA project (see http://linux-ha.org/), and HPe  > is continuing that effort (seeG > http://sourceforge.net/projects/ssic-linux).  And HP has been helping:E > the OpenMOSIX project which aims to provide SSI clustering on Linux. > without application changes. > H > HP has been instrumental in the Trillian project to move Linux forwardF > from IA32 onto Itanium.  (IBM recently backed out on that.)  HP also > co-founded Gelato. >   A Getting Linux ported onto your platform so that you can sell that @ platform hardly counts as major donation to OpenSource, think of7 it as the same as IBM getting Linux ported to Z series.o  H > In addition to volunteer efforts by people from within HP, HP also hasE > well-funded official efforts such as our Linux Systems Division andr > our Linux & Open Source Labs.  >   : So what of note have you provided that delivers benefit to the OpenSource community ????   + > HP's Linux sales now exceed $2B annually.- >    So thats a donation ?????0  A > So it's quite obvious that HP is serious about Linux, and aboutK > helping it move forward. > > > Customers can make their own judgements about Sun's level of6 > committment (if you can even call it that) to Linux.  8 Bullshit, when you can come up with a list of technology8 donated to the OpenSource community as impressive and as6 usefull as the one Sun has then get back to me but all8 you hace come up with so far is HP is committed to Linux" because it sells tin and services.   Regards  Andrew Harrisonh   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 10:58:23 +0100lO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>' Subject: Re: HP to drop hpux?o0 Message-ID: <bdp1k0$pmt$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Kenneth Farmer wrote: M > "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> = > wrote in message news:bdedcq$8n9$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com...u >  >>JF Mezei wrote:a >> >>>Greg Cagle wrote: >>>D >>>1K >>>>They can't decide that until the technology is there. It isn't there on>K >>>>Linux currently, and since HP doesn't control Linux kernel development,eK >>>>they can't plan for it. I'm specifically talking about large MP supportfB >>>>in the standard kernel. It's JUST NOW getting into the kernel. >>>> >>>e@ >>>Compaq started to kill Alpha years ago well before IA64 was a >> > commercially > K >>>viable entity (which it isn't yet). They officially announced its murderr >> > a fewn > E >>>years later, still years ahead of IA64 being commericially viable.t >>>oI >>>If Carly decides that the future lies with Linux, you can rest assuredr >> > that > K >>>she will work to make Linux progress at a faster rate than HP-UX so that  >> > Linuxr >  >>>eventually catches up.. >>= >>Well HP will be starting from zero in the Linux R&D stakes,N? >>as there is nothing of note that HP have donated to the Linuxs >>community so far.H >  > N > What a joke!  You'd better research that one Andrew.  The combined HP/Compaq > contributions are numerous.l >   , Well instead of BSing name the contributions  : I have provided you with a list of Sun donations which was< by no means complete. I didn't include NetBeans for example.  = So come up with your list go on have a go it should be reallyf interesting.   Regardsk Andrew Harrison)   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Jun 2003 08:45:17 -07001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) N Subject: HP Webcast this morning on Next-Generation Intel Itanium 2 processors= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0306300745.7b697c07@posting.google.com>U  @ HP solutions based on next generation Intel Itanium 2 processors  : Today, businesses are demanding more -- more agility, moreE accountability, and a better return on their IT investment. Learn how D HP continues to deliver innovative business and technology solutionsB with the entry of a new era in enterprise and technical computing.  C Find out how your company can benefit from world-leading server andoD workstation performance, best-in-class deployment, lasting value andB investment protection with HP's latest Itanium 2-based solutions.   Keynote presentations by:X  A Peter Blackmore - HP Executive Vice President, Enterprise Systems0 GroupfD Scott Stallard V Senior VP & GM. Enterprise Storage & Servers Group@ Mark Hudson V Vice President V Marketing, Enterprise Storage &
 Servers Groupa  2 Follow the link from the main HP website, or go to http://www.hp.com/cgi-bin/large/exit.cgi?promo=wwmain_b2/Itaniumwebcast&url=http://www.hpbroadband.com/program.cfm?key=itanium2&?mtxs=home-ent&mtxb=B2&mtxl=L1   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 09:29:14 -0700t# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>fR Subject: RE: HP Webcast this morning on Next-Generation Intel Itanium 2 processors9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIOEAJHIAA.tom@kednos.com>o  3 could only access HP's Rich Media Portal with IE6.0e     >-----Original Message----- 9 >From: Keith Parris [mailto:keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com]m$ >Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 8:45 AM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComD >Subject: HP Webcast this morning on Next-Generation Intel Itanium 2 >processorsi >t > A >HP solutions based on next generation Intel Itanium 2 processorso > ; >Today, businesses are demanding more -- more agility, more F >accountability, and a better return on their IT investment. Learn howE >HP continues to deliver innovative business and technology solutionsGC >with the entry of a new era in enterprise and technical computing.  >rD >Find out how your company can benefit from world-leading server andE >workstation performance, best-in-class deployment, lasting value andlC >investment protection with HP's latest Itanium 2-based solutions.u >n >Keynote presentations by: >sB >Peter Blackmore - HP Executive Vice President, Enterprise Systems >GroupE >Scott Stallard V Senior VP & GM. Enterprise Storage & Servers Group1A >Mark Hudson V Vice President V Marketing, Enterprise Storage &s >Servers Group >l3 >Follow the link from the main HP website, or go to D >http://www.hp.com/cgi-bin/large/exit.cgi?promo=wwmain_b2/ItaniumwebL cast&url=http://www.hpbroadband.com/program.cfm?key=itanium2&?mtxs=home-ent& mtxb=B2&mtxl=L1S >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).:A >Version: 6.0.489 / Virus Database: 288 - Release Date: 6/10/2003r >e ---1& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.489 / Virus Database: 288 - Release Date: 6/10/2003   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 13:25:48 +0200 (MET)e9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>A Subject: Re: interface; Message-ID: <01KXPGRYYCTKAM67GX@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>b  J > >> What will be th next VT terminal ?  The OVMS engineering should thinkH > >> about the clients too... an OS is not just kernel and communication > >> protocols.  > > J > > You seem to post something like this every few months.  I don't think * > > anyone has ever understood your point. > D > But we don't know who you are talking to, because you did not giveC > attribution for the quoted lines.  Please do not assume that youra4 > readers newsreaders are exactly the same as yours.  D I think it is obvious that I (unquoted in the original, quoted twiceG here) was talking to the original poster (quoted twice in the original, H thrice here), especially since my statement was immediately beneath his.F If this isn't obvious in a newsreader, then I would consider it to be  broken.C  D I don't think his NAME matters; if he's following the thread, he'll G notice; if he doesn't, he won't.  (Unless he just looks for posts with e his name in them, of course.)a   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Jun 2003 07:03:08 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)t Subject: Re: interface3 Message-ID: <uvMtRQ4WyUiX@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  w In article <01KXPGRYYCTKAM67GX@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:i  F > I think it is obvious that I (unquoted in the original, quoted twiceI > here) was talking to the original poster (quoted twice in the original,hJ > thrice here), especially since my statement was immediately beneath his.H > If this isn't obvious in a newsreader, then I would consider it to be 	 > broken.m  @ Never presume that everybody else's computer is just like yours.  $ Which VMS newsreader are you using ?  F > I don't think his NAME matters; if he's following the thread, he'll " > notice; if he doesn't, he won't.  @ Well, if you are only talking to him rather than the rest of us,$ wouldn't it be better in mail ?  :-)   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 14:51:39 +0200 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Subject: Re: interface; Message-ID: <01KXPJS45CTAAPGT9H@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   H > > I think it is obvious that I (unquoted in the original, quoted twiceK > > here) was talking to the original poster (quoted twice in the original,oL > > thrice here), especially since my statement was immediately beneath his.J > > If this isn't obvious in a newsreader, then I would consider it to be  > > broken.w > B > Never presume that everybody else's computer is just like yours. > & > Which VMS newsreader are you using ?  F At the moment, email (VMS MAIL) via InfoVAX.  But my experience shows E that NEWSRDR, which I use a lot, as well as Netscape, Google, nn etc v+ show output perfectly understandable to me.r  H > > I don't think his NAME matters; if he's following the thread, he'll $ > > notice; if he doesn't, he won't. > B > Well, if you are only talking to him rather than the rest of us,& > wouldn't it be better in mail ?  :-)  D Precisely.  But I wasn't, which is why the name isn't so important. D (Perhaps someone else remembers the thread and what FC's point was.)   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 09:05:08 +0200 (MET)g9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>XT Subject: interface (was: RE: Compaq Solutions Aliance - "Does" it still existing  ?); Message-ID: <01KXP7O3UY6AAM67GX@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   < > This is because I think OVMS should have an better graphic/ > interface. You cannot run away from the GUI. p   Just say "no".  E > Of course command line still important but we dont have a graphical - > terminal development in the past 10 years. e  ? I have DECwindows, DECterm and use many graphical applications.f  G Of course, I don't have an interface where I have to take one hand off  : the keyboard to accomplish things.  But I don't want that.  G > May be the future for OVMS is a Citrix Server like product. Or may be H > porting some linux graphic interface. Or may be Amiga Intuition ! :-)  > G > What will be th next VT terminal ?  The OVMS engineering should think E > about the clients too... an OS is not just kernel and communication 
 > protocols. r  F You seem to post something like this every few months.  I don't think & anyone has ever understood your point.   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Jun 2003 05:42:03 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) X Subject: Re: interface (was: RE: Compaq Solutions Aliance - "Does" it still existing  ?)3 Message-ID: <TvSMMojVb52t@eisner.encompasserve.org>s  w In article <01KXP7O3UY6AAM67GX@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:t= >> This is because I think OVMS should have an better graphica0 >> interface. You cannot run away from the GUI.  >  > Just say "no". > F >> Of course command line still important but we dont have a graphical. >> terminal development in the past 10 years.  > A > I have DECwindows, DECterm and use many graphical applications.U > I > Of course, I don't have an interface where I have to take one hand off u< > the keyboard to accomplish things.  But I don't want that. > H >> May be the future for OVMS is a Citrix Server like product. Or may beI >> porting some linux graphic interface. Or may be Amiga Intuition ! :-)   >> pH >> What will be th next VT terminal ?  The OVMS engineering should thinkF >> about the clients too... an OS is not just kernel and communication >> protocols.  > H > You seem to post something like this every few months.  I don't think ( > anyone has ever understood your point.  B But we don't know who you are talking to, because you did not giveA attribution for the quoted lines.  Please do not assume that youru2 readers newsreaders are exactly the same as yours.   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 09:01:41 +0200 (MET)y9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>dP Subject: interface (was: RE: Compaq Solutions Aliance - Do it still existing  ?); Message-ID: <01KXP7JM54BMAM67GX@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>n  I > Windoz is a decent user interface, allowing you to be doing many thingseE > at the same time.  My interface to my VMS systems is SmarTerm, withhJ > large scroll back history, and many sessions, on a large color monitor. A > Beats the heck out of VTs, including the VT-525.  I have LK-411tD > keyboards, didn't say I was stupid, just using windoz when it is aC > decent tool for the job.  Damn F14 key doesn't work, but that's af8 > mapping issue, and Ctrl-A isn't too hard to remember.   A My interface to my VMS systems is DECterm, with large scroll-back F history, and many sessions on a large colour monitor.  Beats the heck H out of VTs, including the VT-525.  I have proper keyboards, of course.   F14 works fine.f  B I also have a VT as the console.  This has many advantages over a  graphics console.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 17:38:32 +1000f1 From: Paddy O'Brien <paddy.o'brien@tg.nsw.gov.au> T Subject: Re: interface (was: RE: Compaq Solutions Aliance - Do it still existing  ?), Message-ID: <3EFFE8F8.7040700@tg.nsw.gov.au>   Phillip Helbig wrote: I >>Windoz is a decent user interface, allowing you to be doing many things E >>at the same time.  My interface to my VMS systems is SmarTerm, withnJ >>large scroll back history, and many sessions, on a large color monitor. A >>Beats the heck out of VTs, including the VT-525.  I have LK-411 D >>keyboards, didn't say I was stupid, just using windoz when it is aC >>decent tool for the job.  Damn F14 key doesn't work, but that's a 8 >>mapping issue, and Ctrl-A isn't too hard to remember.  >  > C > My interface to my VMS systems is DECterm, with large scroll-backrH > history, and many sessions on a large colour monitor.  Beats the heck J > out of VTs, including the VT-525.  I have proper keyboards, of course.   > F14 works fine.1 > D > I also have a VT as the console.  This has many advantages over a  > graphics console.m  H I second Phillip's remarks.  I have on my desk a VAXstation 4000-60 and H a DEC 3000 Model 400.  Each has a 21" monitor, and I connect to all six H of the machines under my control.  (I'm a last ditch attempt at keeping  VMS alive here.)  E I keep privileged DECterms of each machine on my VAXstation and user  G sessions where I develop on my DEC 3000.  I also use the VAXstation to lI run my DECwindows debug sessions from the Alphas.  This means that I can sG watch (particularly graphics) on my Alpha as I step through debug code e displayed on my VAXstation.i  I Who the hell needs windoze?  It's a bloody lousy interface, particularly aI when you have to battle with the way different emulators handle GKS code  G (and see Vaxman's thread on graphics sequences).  And all my keys work l correctly.  LK401 keyboards.   VMS does not just run on VTs.y   Regards, Paddy      G ***********************************************************************   C "This electronic message and any attachments may contain privilegedh> and confidential information intended only for the use of the B addressees named above.  If you are not the intended recipient of C this email, please delete the message and any attachment and adviseeB the sender.  You are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, 7 distribution, reproduction of this email is prohibited.e  A If you have received the email in error, please notify TransGrid -A immediately.  Any views expressed in this email are those of the d= individual sender except where the sender expressly and with lC authority states them to be the views of TransGrid.  TransGrid usesn> virus scanning software but excludes any liability for viruses contained in any attachment.  < Please note the email address for TransGrid personnel is now$ firstname.lastname@transgrid.com.au"  G ***********************************************************************t   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 10:26:39 +0100e* From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]>7 Subject: Re: Open VMS Alpha upgrade from 7.2-1 to 7.2-2b' Message-ID: <bdovtn$bht$1@lore.csc.com>i   Rob.Buxton@wcc.govt.nz wrote:t > 6 > On Fri, 27 Jun 2003 12:33:23 -0700, "My old account" > <rwolff@selkirk.bc.ca> wrote:s > F > >I have a single (not clustered) DS20E Alpha running Open VMS 7.2-1.F > >I want to upgrade to Open VMS 7.2-2 which is required for CSWS 1.3. > >rC > >Are there any concerns that I should be aware of before I begin? $ > >I don't run DECnet. I use TCP/IP. > > B > >After the upgrade do I have to reinstall every layered product? > >- > >Thanks for your advice. > B > If you're running a fully patched 7.2-1 then there's very littleF > difference between taht and 7.2-2. My understanding is that 7.2-2 is8 > just a roll together of patches into a stable release.  D No not quite correct. When 7.2-1 fell off support, patches were onlyA built for 7.2-2. Check out the release dates of patches for 7.2-1w= against 7.2-2, you'll see far more current patches for 7.2-2.   eC > There are Patches out for 7.2-2, so consider also installing them 
 > afterwards.oC > There should be no reason to upgrade existing versions of DECNet, G > TCP/IP etc., the main advantage is that you can use some of the newerl > products.    Agreed.   F 7.2-2 is to allow the 7.2, 7.2-H variants to upgrade to a stable pointD without needing software requalification. There should be no need to' change or upgrade any layered products.n  F In the 7.2 (- X) tree, this is a free-of-charge upgrade, providing youH either had rights to, or purchase the system with the base licence whileG 7.2 was current, then you have the right to move to 7.2-2 (media may bes nominally chargeable).  = 7.2-2 goes off support at the end of this year (PVS sustainedz
 engineering).a   -- l? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------    Date: 30 Jun 2003 10:50:31 -07001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)c7 Subject: Re: Open VMS Alpha upgrade from 7.2-1 to 7.2-2g= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0306300950.11f76403@posting.google.com>P  H Rob.Buxton@wcc.govt.nz wrote in message news:<3eff8459.13509046@news>...B > If you're running a fully patched 7.2-1 then there's very littleF > difference between taht and 7.2-2. My understanding is that 7.2-2 is8 > just a roll together of patches into a stable release.  < Actually, 7.2-2 also included some of the features from 7.3.   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Jun 2003 11:31:06 -05004 From: kuhrt@nospammy.encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt)2 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Management  Tools for Windows3 Message-ID: <Fh2Ux8HAWwRk@eisner.encompasserve.org>   q In article <20030628010707.84994.qmail@web20208.mail.yahoo.com>, Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> writes:  > People > M > Do Compaq/HP stopped developing the OpenVMS Management Tools for Windows ? r >  yM > If yes, why not HP donate/sell/give it to another company like Pointsecure lO > to improve it ? There were good features in that product, mainly for HelpdeskiI > use if improved - like security people which need just to create/deleteaN > accounts. Etc ! Would be nice to integrate it with PointAudit to have online@ > management of the accounts. Ok, ok I know you dont like it... D > May be using Bristol or Mainsoft libraries to port the MMC console > to X/Windows.  >   : There used to be a suite of GUI management tools that were? available that did just that.  VMS management via X GUIs on VMSt4 systems.  Accounts, disks, queues, performance, etc.  ? XUAFMaestro was the one that could be used to create, delete ori@ modify accounts anywhere on the network.  You could set it up so: that specific users could only affect specific fields on a? limited set of accounts (handy for allowing the helpdesk peoplee? to change a password, for instance, but nothing else)  It wouldg9 log who did what, and allow for rollbacks, if necessary. o  < The price was, what I thought, reasonable.  The response was; underwhelming.  I'm not sure if the lack of response was an,@ endictment of GUIs or because the company selling it has a sales@ and marketing effort that made VMS marketing look like ceaseless saturation bombing.    ------------------------------    Date: 30 Jun 2003 10:30:59 -07001 From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski)rO Subject: OpenVMS Pearl - OpenVMS V8.0, first release on Itanium, ships today!!!o= Message-ID: <857e9e41.0306300930.3b056994@posting.google.com>    From: 	Gorham, Mark  d# Sent:	Monday, June 30, 2003 1:26 PMo" To:	Skonetski, Susan; Schimel, Lin? Subject:	FW: VMS V8.0, first release on Itanium, ships today!!!   A I am very pleased to be able to announce HP OpenVMS for IntegrityfD Systems V8.0 has been shipped to 10 evaluation customers today, JuneD 30, 2003.  This is the result of 24 months of work by a creative andF dedicated team of engineers.   Today you probably also heard about theD great new Itanium-based systems from HP, with a new brand name of HPF Integrity Servers.  These include for the first time Superdome systems. - up to 64 CPUs per server shipping in August!  @ For our first release, we intended to ship a lightweight OS, twoA network stacks, and some cross compilers and development tools tonC allow our key horizontal ISVs to start moving their applications topE Itanium.  We have greatly exceeded this in 8.0, adding clustering (wen@ even have mixed architecture Alpha/Integrity clustering!!!), SMPF (symmetric multi processing), DFS, XFC (extended file cache), Ramdisk,C and ZIP/UNZIP.  Stability is much better than expected, and we havetE already established with one customer's application a proof point for C recompile/relink application portability between Alpha and Itanium.i  F Work with key ISVs starts immediately.  Our FastTrack program will useE our lab and central engineering resources to accelerate ISV adoption.   B We are on track to ship V8.1 in December of this year, and to ship@ V8.2, our first production-quality release of OpenVMS on Itanium systems, in H2 2004.  F If you have any questions on what we're doing with VMS, please send me@ mail or check out our web site at  <http://h71000.www7.hp.com/>.     Regardsr   Mark  E Mark Gorham   Vice President   OpenVMS Systems Group  Hewlett-Packard  Corporation . email: mark.gorham@hp.com  phone: 603-884-01181 admin: Susan Christie phone: 603-884-0100  email:e susan.christie@hp.com      VMS V8.0 includese    4 	Base O/S (includes RMS, XQP, Image Activator, ...)F 	Utilities (BACKUP, BAD, COPY, CLI, DCL, DIR, MAIL, UTIL32, EDT, ...) 	(i2000), rx2600 supporti= 	LAN support (Intel 8255x 10/100, Broadcom 5701 10/100/1000)  	SCSI Storage (U160, U320)t 	FDDI support *	ODS-5 supporte 	IPCa	 	Monitore 	RMS Convert and FDLSHR *	Dual CPU support
 	INSTAL/PRIVoB *	Clusters (Initial support including mixed architecture clusters)' 	DECnet Phase IV (SET Host, Copy, ...)4C 	TCP/IP (FTP client and server, Telnet client and server, sockets,D QIO interface, NET, ...) 	LATa *	DFSe Development Tools: 	Cross Linker 	Cross Librarianc 	Cross Message Compiler- 	Cross and Native Command Definition Utility0
 	CHECKSUM 	LIBRTL, CRTL, MATHRTL, CVT 	XDELTA4 	Cross and Native SDA (System crash, process crash)
 	Bugcheck" 	DECset (DTM, CMS, MMS, TPU, LSE) 	DEBUG (Initial support)e *	ZIP/UNZIPa( Cross Compilers and Related Components:	
 	BLISS 32/64a 	CG 	IMACRO	 	Fortran = 	C++ less template library (Initially for internal use only)  	Cross Assemblerb 	LIBOTS *	SORT32	 *	LIBOTS2  *	Cobol RTLs	 Security:;1 	Base security (Except ACME and Security Server)o 	Security System Services
 	LOGINOUT 	Authorizec 	SET/SHOW Securityc  	Audit Server and Analyze/Audit 	Encryption for OpenVMS 	Accounting OTHERt 	DECthreads 	DDTM 	DECwindows ClientS *	XFCo+ *	Ramdisk (available for internal use only)a 	PCSI 	VMSINSTALt   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 10:07:44 +0100w* From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]>8 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Technical Seminar Highlights (some)' Message-ID: <bdouq8$bed$1@lore.csc.com>r   JF Mezei wrote:0 >  > Neil Rieck wrote: ? > > 7. support for parameters WSMAX + BALSETCNT will be removedi > 1 > What is the logic behind the removal of WSMAX ?t  G I don't think "support" is the right word that Neil used. "Restriction"iH would have been better. Effectively the P0 space which was needed to mapC the virtual and physical memory of a process, the larger the memoryk? mapping for WSMAX, the lower the total number of possible slotsnF (BALSETCNT) so the raising of BALSETCNT, or the removal is a throwback? to moving the mapping physical WSMAX spaces into P2 space IIRC.s  D The problem is when you have a very large memory system, and you canC have very large physical memory requirements (WSMAX), then you wereeG forced to have a low BALSETCNT, so other processes were forced to swap, 2 and that was even if you had the memory available.  H Big WSMAX = low BALSETCNT = SWAPPING with more than BALSETCNT processes. (VBSS's help but don't fix).  " The old VIRTUALPAGECNT is similar.  F (Note: I've used a little artistic license above in the explanation of. what is where but hopefully you get the idea).   -- )? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences- nclews at csc dot com3   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 10:43:22 +0100sO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> 8 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Technical Seminar Highlights (some)0 Message-ID: <bdp0nr$pd2$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Neil Rieck wrote:o >  > VMS Application Software:  > L > 1. H-P requires that their partners develop products for all H-P operatingM > systems. This means that an ISV wanting to develop for HP-UX and LINUX will-J > now be required to develop for OpenVMS as well. This will help to dispelN > myths like H-P wants to kill VMS and/or there are no apps available for VMS. > H > 2. There are currently 3000 ISVs developing 5000 OpenVMS applications. >   E Very very funny if true. HP arn't in the position to require ISV'S ton6 do anything unless they have a contract with that ISV.  D With only 400 apps available in total for Itanium at all they are inB the position of having to ask their ISV's very very very nicely to
 do a port.  F Why do you think Intel are having to contemplate FX!32 for Itanium ???   Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 10:36:39 +0100a* From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]> Subject: Re: Rethinking  V.M.S' Message-ID: <bdp0gh$bkt$1@lore.csc.com>-   Fabio Cardoso wrote: > 4 > The VMS was developed 25 years ago when memory was) > expensive and Virtual Memory an option.:3 > But do we need a Virtual Memory System nowadays ? 3 > May be we should think in another architecture as>9 > the memories are becoming cheaper. May be the VM System : > can be improved or rethinked... What are the performance< > issues related in having the VM (paging, swapping, related5 > to disk I/O delay, etc ...) What do u think about ?f  A The other thing to consider, often overlooked, is it is a Virtual. *Machine* System as well.e  G But VMS is being rethinked (sic) in that it is an operating system thate? will allow applications to access EPIC architectures. This is a E different way of thinking, that the beowulf 'clustering' types use tooD deliver their performance (albeit in a RISC framework). This concept: comes to a "single" machine rather than discrete machines. -- .? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencesi nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------    Date: 30 Jun 2003 08:30:54 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)5 Subject: Re: Rethinking  V.M.S3 Message-ID: <umw$w7eVQIfY@eisner.encompasserve.org>   q In article <20030629211410.38560.qmail@web20204.mail.yahoo.com>, Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> writes:a > People >  > 5 > The VMS was developed 25 years ago when memory was .) > expensive and Virtual Memory an option.i4 > But do we need a Virtual Memory System nowadays ? 3 > May be we should think in another architecture asf9 > the memories are becoming cheaper. May be the VM Systemv: > can be improved or rethinked... What are the performance< > issues related in having the VM (paging, swapping, related5 > to disk I/O delay, etc ...) What do u think about ?-  H    These days the only OS not doing VM are some of the embedded realtimeE    OS.  I still like the idea of being able to run a program twice asc    large as the RAM I bought.    ------------------------------    Date: 30 Jun 2003 11:47:51 -00004 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> Subject: Running VMS off CD 6 Message-ID: <20030630114751.16332.qmail@nym.alias.net>  L For those that have noticed I have an interest in remailers (duh!). The goodK news is that the new Type-III remailer (Mixminion) is written in Python and-" will therefor be runnable on VMS.   J Any system such as that should be as secure as possible, and I'm wondering4 about the possibility of booting and running off CD.  L Has anyone done this?  If so, is XFC enough of a performance booster to makeK this a viable proposition?  What would be a reasonable amount of memory for  the system?    Thanks for any advice.     Doc. --  K OpenVMS.         Eight out of ten hackers prefer *other* operating systems.(   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 09:22:52 -0400 , From: "Island" <dbturner@nospamislandco.com>$ Subject: Re: StorageWorks question -/ Message-ID: <vg0egs1a4tpp89@news.supernews.com>:  ? Yes - no problem - the disks will negotiate down to Wide speeds0? I wouldn't run the UW SCSI disks in a narrow environment thougho   DT   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 08:42:38 GMTv- From: "labadie" <tonari_no_tottoro@127.0.0.1>e> Subject: Re: Strange behavior of Backup/ign=inter on VMS 7.3-12 Message-ID: <2KSLa.3546$_d7.2134@news.cpqcorp.net>  . "Dan Teja" <dteja@cerner.com> wrote in message6 news:7df4bb52.0306270619.7db06c1@posting.google.com...F > Summary: On openVMS 7.3-1 if I do backup/ign=inter on a file that isF > locked by another user. When I unpack the save set the modified date you mean $ backup/allow=corruption ?k   :-)j   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Jun 2003 09:16:29 -0700' From: dennisb@wvhmhc.org (Dennis Baker)JQ Subject: Re: Subject: Reading long files in BASIC that appears to be "recordless" = Message-ID: <6f29699e.0306300816.450c0ec6@posting.google.com>T  B Thanks for your timely input, Randy and Dave, but unfortunately it didn't help.  , Here's my test program stripped to the bone:   200 when error ins4         f$ = "dkb0:[user.ninsur.tagcom]HP150922.835"E         OPEN f$ for input AS #5, organization virtual, recordtype any.A             ! I even tried adding recordsize 512 with same resultA     useH         if err = 5% then(             print "Can't find file "; f$             continue 999         end if         exit handler     end when   210 Record_number = 0%     WHEN ERROR INh         WHILE -1%t             get #5%n.             Record_number = Record_number + 1%         NEXT     USEP         IF ERR = 11% THENm3             PRINT "Finished reading " + f$ + " - "; / NUM1$(Record_number); " records (blocks) read."              PRINT,             CONTINUE 999         END IF         EXIT HANDLER     END WHEN 999 ENDl  F As you can see, I tried organization virtual, recordtype any and still gete( %BAS-F-RECFILTOO, Record on file too big' -BAS-I-ON_CHAFIL, on channel 5 for fileq( DKB0:[USER.NINSUR.TAGCOM]HP150922.835;108 -RMS-W-RTB, 1755 byte record too large for user's buffer- -BAS-I-FROMOD, In module TEST_STREAM_STRIPPEDo/ %TRACE-F-TRACEBACK, symbolic stack dump followsnC   image    module    routine             line      rel PC          x abs PC>                                             0 FFFFFFFF80843E98 FFFFFFFF80843E98>  DEC$BASRTL                                 0 000000000000E52C 000000000004052C= ----- above condition handler called with exception 001A84EC:m( %BAS-F-RECFILTOO, Record on file too big' -BAS-I-ON_CHAFIL, on channel 5 for file ( DKB0:[USER.NINSUR.TAGCOM]HP150922.835;108 -RMS-W-RTB, 1755 byte record too large for user's buffer ----- end of exception message>                                             0 FFFFFFFF8899859C FFFFFFFF8899859C>  DEC$BASRTL                                 0 000000000004A518 000000000007C518>  DEC$BASRTL                                 0 000000000003CC44 000000000006EC44>  DEC$BASRTL                                 0 0000000000045E1C 0000000000077E1C1  TEST_STREAM_STRIPPED  TEST_STREAM_STRIPPED$MAIN   TEST_STREAM_STRIPPED$MAIN?>                                            15 0000000000000150 0000000000020150>                                             0 FFFFFFFF88AC70D8 FFFFFFFF88AC70D8  C As David pointed out and I wrote in my original message, there WILLhF definitely be times when these recordless files are over 1 MB in size,D so allocating a map larger than any filesize that may be encounteredE will probably bomb at 32768.  In fact, I just tried adding recordsize F clauses.  It compiles with large numbers, but running at 65536 returns. %BAS-F-BADRECVAL, Bad RECORDSIZE value on OPENC Interestingly enough, help/libr=basichelp run_time_errors badrecvalc says   Run_time_errorsn     BADRECVAL'  +      Bad RECORDSIZE value on OPEN (ERR=148)b  B      The value in the RECORDSIZE clause in the OPEN statement  is  zero  orD      greater than 16384.  Change the value in the RECORDSIZE clause.  E Well, it'll run without a complaint all the way up to 65535, but thatoA still won't cover all file sizes I'll receive.  I also today justh triedl$      map (chunk) string blk$ = 32768'      open f$ for input as #5, map chunk  and goto2                 OPEN f$ for input AS #5, map chunk ^o) %BASIC-F-MAPTOOLAR, MAP too large in OPENM  1 help/libr=basichelp compile_errors maptoolar says    Compile_errors     MAPTOOLAR>  C      FATAL - The size of the MAP referenced in an OPEN statement is> greaterr3      than 32767 bytes.  Reduce the size of the MAP.e  @ So it looks like the QIO method should be my only hope, but as Ie noted, the code at http://h18000.www1.hp.com/support/asktima/appl_tools/009688F7-F95FC060-1C0097.htmlsA "Example-BASIC Using ACP QIO To Access File And Display Contents"kA wouldn't work as written on our new system (OR SO I THOUGHT!).  I F thought it worked in all cases on the old VMS 5.5-1 MV3100 but it only? seemed to work if I specify SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSMGR]<any valid file E there>.  Well, it only works if that's my default directory!  I triedtA this again on the Alphas and it, too, works only for files in theo? default directory (but at least it works!).  I changed the code  slightly by adding"     MAP (CHUNK) STRING BLK$ = 512%D changed the qiow call parameter file_block() BY REF, to BLK$ BY REF, and changed the output code to#     FOR cntr1 = 1% TO 512% STEP 64%s,         PRINT SEG$(BLK$, CNTR1, CNTR1 + 63%)< This does seem to work, albeit only for files in the default@ directory.  Odd, since the program prompts for a full filespec. D Sooooooo....anybody know how to make THAT code work for files in anyF directory?  If so, I think I'd be on my way.  Also, Randy and Dave, ifF it's not much trouble, I would be interested in any short routines youE could post or email me, if for nothing else than a learning exercise.c   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 10:30:07 +0200 (MET)s9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>i Subject: Re: VAX support; Message-ID: <01KXPAMCE3UUAPGT9H@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>o  G > IIRC this common code base thing meant that MAIL was re-written from bA > MACRO to C, and is why many of us have maintained the old MAIL i > executables after upgrades.  o  * I use the (undocumented) MAIL/OLD feature.  B > Probably by 7.3-1, they work correctly but I have no interest in > worrying about that. r  I I don't understand the MAIL rewrite at all.  It was rewritten from BLISS VI to C.  MACRO I can understand.  But as far as I know BLISS is still used eF internally by VMS, even on Itanium.  So why was MAIL rewritten in C?  E And what lack of quality control caused documented features to break?kH (In my particular case, I run MAIL/OLD since the new executable doesn't F allow me to spawn out of EDT called from within MAIL, saying that the D command tables have invalid format.)  And why has this not yet been  fixed (as far as I know)?e   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Jun 2003 06:02:58 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: Re: VAX support3 Message-ID: <RwlZ6967ok51@eisner.encompasserve.org>h  w In article <01KXPAMCE3UUAPGT9H@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:aH >> IIRC this common code base thing meant that MAIL was re-written from B >> MACRO to C, and is why many of us have maintained the old MAIL   >> executables after upgrades.   > , > I use the (undocumented) MAIL/OLD feature. > C >> Probably by 7.3-1, they work correctly but I have no interest int >> worrying about that.  > K > I don't understand the MAIL rewrite at all.  It was rewritten from BLISS oK > to C.  MACRO I can understand.  But as far as I know BLISS is still used mH > internally by VMS, even on Itanium.  So why was MAIL rewritten in C?    E The feeling was that MAIL needed to be rewritten, because it was hardsD to maintain.  Of course when something has to be rewritten for otherF reason is about the only time it makes sense to change languages, even% if they had chosen a better language.e  G > And what lack of quality control caused documented features to break?   I MAIL had a lot of "implicit features" not indicated in any documentation.iF Without specific instructions to test for those features, they did not turn out right.n  J > (In my particular case, I run MAIL/OLD since the new executable doesn't H > allow me to spawn out of EDT called from within MAIL, saying that the F > command tables have invalid format.)  And why has this not yet been  > fixed (as far as I know)?i  - So that was presumably an "implicit feature".m  A As an exercise, try to list _all_ features of MAIL.  Then go backRG over old comp.os.vms to find all those that were missed in the rewrite. % Were they on the list you just made ?h  E Although I am a big advocate of strong typing, I believe that most ofeF the errors customers found in the new MAIL would not have been avoidedE by using a better language than C.  Language quality might reduce the D time spent with the errors that were found in testing, but not those that made it to customers.   ======  A I was involved in an effort once to rewrite a 10,000 line programnD about as old as MAIL into another language (for functional reasons).B The most risky part was capturing the features of the old version.D The specification I wrote of the features of the old version and how@ they had to be replicated in the new version was 400 pages long.  B Writing a 400 page specification of a previous version is actuallyA a lot more tractable than the task of getting qualified people toeB spend time reading the 400 page specification.  At least 20 people@ had access to the specification.  Nine of those were even people? who had to sign on the dotted line regarding the correctness ofo the specification.  A There was a sentence in the middle of that specification offering D a 5 dollar reward to the first person to report the presence of thatC sentence.  The one person who reported the presence of the sentence:D did it a day before the one month deadline was up, and he claimed toB have accidentally stumbled across it rather than having thoroughly read the specification.d   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 13:31:47 +0200 (MET)r9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>o Subject: Re: VAX support; Message-ID: <01KXPGFDN8KIAPGT9H@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   L > > (In my particular case, I run MAIL/OLD since the new executable doesn't J > > allow me to spawn out of EDT called from within MAIL, saying that the H > > command tables have invalid format.)  And why has this not yet been  > > fixed (as far as I know)?' > / > So that was presumably an "implicit feature".'  H I remember needing this functionality then consulting the documentation C to figure out how to do it (XLATE etc).  So I don't see how it was - "implicit".e  G > Although I am a big advocate of strong typing, I believe that most ofdH > the errors customers found in the new MAIL would not have been avoidedG > by using a better language than C.  Language quality might reduce the(F > time spent with the errors that were found in testing, but not those > that made it to customers.  G But it wasn't written in Algol or Fortran I, it was written in BLISS.  tG Has BLISS become hard to maintain within VMS engineering?  What is the   world coming to?  :-)   C > There was a sentence in the middle of that specification offeringkF > a 5 dollar reward to the first person to report the presence of thatE > sentence.  The one person who reported the presence of the sentencehF > did it a day before the one month deadline was up, and he claimed toD > have accidentally stumbled across it rather than having thoroughly > read the specification.   G Right.  This is why Van Halen has a line in their contract saying that aI they are to be provided with a bowl full of M&Ms, but with all the brown  D ones removed.  They don't have some bizarre fetish, but rather this G serves to test whether the people responsible have read their contract sE in full.  IIRC, they put this in after the stage was not up to spec,  H resulting in some overloaded electrical circuits, things breaking under I weight etc.  The idea is that even in the backstage area of a rock band, sE such a bowl of M&Ms with the brown ones removed is NOT something one   could expect to find by chance.s   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Jun 2003 06:56:01 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)n Subject: Re: VAX support3 Message-ID: <UuJTgscNyGEE@eisner.encompasserve.org>   w In article <01KXPGFDN8KIAPGT9H@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:r  H >> Although I am a big advocate of strong typing, I believe that most ofI >> the errors customers found in the new MAIL would not have been avoided H >> by using a better language than C.  Language quality might reduce theG >> time spent with the errors that were found in testing, but not thoseV >> that made it to customers.  > I > But it wasn't written in Algol or Fortran I, it was written in BLISS.  l; > Has BLISS become hard to maintain within VMS engineering?.  G My point is not that Bliss code naturally is hard to maintain (although-H that might have been the view of some of the DEC managers).  Rather thisF code itself was hard to maintain, perhaps through lack of comments, orF just a design that made it hard to maintain.  Remember that Bliss MAILB was written before maintainability issues were so well understood.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 15:07:17 GMTr& From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com> Subject: Re: VAX support2 Message-ID: <FmYLa.3571$Tr7.2380@news.cpqcorp.net>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:  I > My point is not that Bliss code naturally is hard to maintain (although>J > that might have been the view of some of the DEC managers).  Rather thisH > code itself was hard to maintain, perhaps through lack of comments, orH > just a design that made it hard to maintain.  Remember that Bliss MAILD > was written before maintainability issues were so well understood.  H Out of curiosity, I scanned over some of the BLISS code in the MAIL/OLD G images.  Personally, I don't think they are too bad at all.  They even  * have comments!  I've seen much worse code.  E I can't comment on the algorithm or design, but given that the new C iF MAIL client still calls the same APIs in MAILSHR.EXE as the old BLISS C MAIL client, I'd say the overall design couldn't be that different.    -- d John Reagan ' Compaq Pascal/{A|I}MACRO Project Leaderi Hewlett-Packard Companyu   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Jun 2003 10:14:51 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)- Subject: Re: VAX support3 Message-ID: <2D7M+dI11nM0@eisner.encompasserve.org>b  [ In article <FmYLa.3571$Tr7.2380@news.cpqcorp.net>, John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com> writes:  > Larry Kilgallen wrote: > J >> My point is not that Bliss code naturally is hard to maintain (althoughK >> that might have been the view of some of the DEC managers).  Rather thisiI >> code itself was hard to maintain, perhaps through lack of comments, or I >> just a design that made it hard to maintain.  Remember that Bliss MAILtE >> was written before maintainability issues were so well understood.  > J > Out of curiosity, I scanned over some of the BLISS code in the MAIL/OLD I > images.  Personally, I don't think they are too bad at all.  They even a, > have comments!  I've seen much worse code. > G > I can't comment on the algorithm or design, but given that the new C gH > MAIL client still calls the same APIs in MAILSHR.EXE as the old BLISS E > MAIL client, I'd say the overall design couldn't be that different.T  G Perhaps they were unwilling to assign an experienced compiler developer- to maintaining Bliss MAIL :-)    ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 08:54:30 +0200 (MET).9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> K Subject: VAX support (was: Re: OpenVMS Technical Seminar Highlights (some))a; Message-ID: <01KXP7C6ILS2AM67GX@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>f  I >    I've only specifically heard that Alpha and IA64 will continue to be I >    based on the same code base, but if I was HP I'd take a serious look G >    at getting rid of the extra cost of maintaining the two code basesiF >    that exist now.  A little money now might pay dividends for yearsH >    for all those VAX customers whowon't shut down and do want support.  H If commercial folks are on VAX with support instead of ALPHA, then this G is very probably because they need a "stable" platform.  Thus, most of cE these customers are not interested in new features on VAX, quite the a	 opposite.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 17:18:53 +1000 1 From: Paddy O'Brien <paddy.o'brien@tg.nsw.gov.au> O Subject: Re: VAX support (was: Re: OpenVMS Technical Seminar Highlights (some))l, Message-ID: <3EFFE45D.5080100@tg.nsw.gov.au>   Phillip Helbig wrote:MI >>   I've only specifically heard that Alpha and IA64 will continue to beeI >>   based on the same code base, but if I was HP I'd take a serious look)G >>   at getting rid of the extra cost of maintaining the two code bases F >>   that exist now.  A little money now might pay dividends for yearsH >>   for all those VAX customers whowon't shut down and do want support. >  > J > If commercial folks are on VAX with support instead of ALPHA, then this I > is very probably because they need a "stable" platform.  Thus, most of yG > these customers are not interested in new features on VAX, quite the t > opposite.n  D We went to Alpha many many years ago, but initially we compiled and 5 regression tested our applications on both platforms.o  F I'm not too concerned about the code base of the OS.  I just want the A OS/compilers/linkers to work to give my applications correctness.c  E IIRC this common code base thing meant that MAIL was re-written from f? MACRO to C, and is why many of us have maintained the old MAIL eH executables after upgrades.  Probably by 7.3-1, they work correctly but D I have no interest in worrying about that.  I can only use mail for E internal things, having been denuded of access to the world from VMS hI (Micro$hit authentication).  I have to access the world via Outhouse via  G Mozilla which I find poor and hard to use compared to my VMS mail.  No hI offense to the Mozilla developers, they are undoubtedly doing a good job l6 when you consider they are accessing a BG application.   Regards, Paddy      G ***********************************************************************a  C "This electronic message and any attachments may contain privilegedn> and confidential information intended only for the use of the B addressees named above.  If you are not the intended recipient of C this email, please delete the message and any attachment and adviseiB the sender.  You are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, 7 distribution, reproduction of this email is prohibited.c  A If you have received the email in error, please notify TransGrid  A immediately.  Any views expressed in this email are those of the  = individual sender except where the sender expressly and with  C authority states them to be the views of TransGrid.  TransGrid usesf> virus scanning software but excludes any liability for viruses contained in any attachment.  < Please note the email address for TransGrid personnel is now$ firstname.lastname@transgrid.com.au"  G ***********************************************************************c   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Jun 2003 10:58:24 -07000 From: jason.mccormick@lexi.com (Jason McCormick)% Subject: Re: VMS backup to NFS sharese< Message-ID: <7a78a31c.0306300958.5c6aa74@posting.google.com>  J > Multinet stores the FDL info in a hidden file (ie, one starting with a . > ) H > on an NFS server by default. So when the file is viewed from VMS, the  > file attributes are correct.  @ So unlike UCX (as pointed out in this thread) there's no need toE specify a qualified like /ADF= since it's automatic? (Just wanting toi
 make sure)  tF > If you are doing and image followed by daily and weekly incremental H > backups, you will have to work out some method of restoring the image $ > backup (if it is the system disk).  F I'm going to use our old TZ86 to back up the system disks and then allD the user/application data is on other disks.  I can use backup/imageD across NFS for the disks that aren't the system disk though correct?  M > To read a saveset, I just copy one off the DVD into an area readable by my  J > VAX over NFS, gunzip it, create the hidden FDL file and then use backup 
 > on the VAX.)  0 And all the files restored correctly?  Terrific.  F Thanks for the insight into Multinet.  And thanks to everyone else who' had some ideas.  It's much appreciated.7   -- Jason   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 13:56:22 +0100r" From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com> Subject: Re: X11 proxy on VMS ?o% Message-ID: <3F003376.10902@spam.com>v   Ryan Moore wrote: 5 > I haven't tried this, but I think it should work...  > I > From the LAT X-terminal, log into a VMS machine.  Make sure to set your- > display from DCL:s > + > $ SET DISPLAY/node=xxxxx/trans=lat/create  > 3 > Run some kind of X App to make sure it's working.o >  > $ mcr decw$clock > K > Okay, now from the VMS box, use SSH/SSH2 with X11 forwarding turned on to - > get to the box you want to run X apps from.  > J > That should be it.  When you start X apps on the box you SSH-ed into, it! > should show up on your display.c > J > SSH/SSH2 is available today from Process Software as part of Multinet or0 > TCPware.  Also available as a product for UCX. > J > I haven't tried this setup, but I think it should work.  We have VXTs atE > work and we use LAT.  I can try it out if you can't get it to work.u > L > I have chained forwarded X displays through SSH connections on Unix boxes, > so I know it should work.e >  > -Ryanp   Thanks Ryan,  A I don't think it will work but you've certainly got the scenario:   "                          LAT    IP9      X11 Display       A----->B----->D     Remote IP Host   C However there's no magic in ssh forwarding:  Output from D destined D for port 6000 of the display A, arrives at B via the ssh tunnel, BD.1 B can't convey it to A over LAT `just like that'.g  C B needs to run something like a virtual X server (e.g. VNC).  As aneF X server to D, IP is used as transport.  As X client to A, LAT's used.  ? Hunter Goatley & David North have ported the VNC viewer, so theoC solution for me is to run the VNC server on a local Solaris box, C:   9                      X11/  VNC/   X11/     "/" means overc$                      LAT   IP     IP9      X11 Display   A---->B---->C----->D    Remote IP Hostl  0 Haven't tried it so can't comment on performance   D.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 11:44:23 GMT ' From: Colin Blake <colin@theblakes.com>e6 Subject: Re: zip program that handles multi-dot files?, Message-ID: <3F002294.9040109@theblakes.com>  I There's another release of GNV coming out in the next few days (A1.5-3). 2C According to the release notes it has ODS-5 support in GZIP. Watch r2 www.openvms.compaq.com/opensource for the release.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.358 ************************om>    From: 	Gorham, Mark  d# Sent:	Monday, June 30, 2003 1:26 PMo" To:	Skonetski, Susan; Schimel, Lin? Subject:	FW: VMS V8.0, first release on Itanium, ships today!!!   A I am very pleased to be able to announce HP OpenVMS for IntegrityfD Systems V8.0 has been shipped to 10 evaluation customers today, JuneD 30, 2003.  This is the result of 24 months of work by a creative andF dedicated team of engineers.   Today you probably also heard about theD great new Itanium-based system                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       @                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       