1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 02 Mar 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 119       Contents:/ Re: DVD readers that could also boot VMS CDs(?) 6 Re: Editor wars - Was: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?6 Re: Editor wars - Was: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?P Re: HP can't speak or spell VMS!!!  How do they expect to sell it or even preten	 I am back 
 Re: I am back 
 Re: I am back / Re: Linus trashes Itanium - he's scared of VMS! / Re: Linus trashes Itanium - he's scared of VMS! ) Re: Problems with Java and OpenVMS V7.3-1  Re: Questions on SSH for VMS Re: Questions on SSH for VMS Re: Questions on SSH for VMS( running autogen on alternate system disk, Re: running autogen on alternate system disk Re: Terminal Servers Re: unix Re: unix- Re: [CDU] Compiler doesn't work over DECnet ?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 21:33:49 -0800 7 From: David Spencer <spencer@spaamfree.pageweavers.com> 8 Subject: Re: DVD readers that could also boot VMS CDs(?)B Message-ID: <010320032133493727%spencer@spaamfree.pageweavers.com>  > > > "David Spencer" <spencer@spaamfree.pageweavers.com> wrote:O > > > I'd like to install a DVD reader in my 500au. I don't want to write DVDs. T > > > I just want to be able to read them when written in ISO9660 format. The reader> > > > could be either SCSI or IDE - my PWS will handle either. > > N > > The Toshiba drives should be pretty safe.  I don't have a dvd installed inO > > any of mine at the moment but am pretty sure I've used my SD-M1402 (IDE) in 
 > > the past.  > > < > > > It would also be nice, but not manditory, that I could> > > > toss my OpenVMS CD in there and be able to boot from it. > > H > > If your workstation has the Cypress IDE controller then it should be5 > > bootable, otherwise you'll want the SCSI version.  > U > I have one of the newer 500au's that has the USB ports. It also has the IDE CD-ROM. > > I'm presuming that this is the variation of which you speak.  0 I have a follow-up that answers my own question.  N I was able to locate a Pioneer DVD-303R. It is a SCSI drive that read DVDs andM CD-ROMs. I installed it in my 500au with the 512 jumper enabled. Not only can S I read CDs but I can also boot VMS! Now at least I know that I can deploy some sort . of DVD solution that won't cripple machines...     -- Dave Spencer    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Mar 2003 15:00:44 -0800 . From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)? Subject: Re: Editor wars - Was: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ? = Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0303011500.61043161@posting.google.com>   Z p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) wrote in message news:<5RTFv+yPlo$I@elias.decus.ch>...p > In article <b096a4ee.0302270823.669a2b0e@posting.google.com>, spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes:^ > > Don Sykes <anonymous@pacbell.net> wrote in message news:<3E58148E.4B1FC938@pacbell.net>... > >> "Alan E. Feldman" wrote:  > >> >  a > >> > Don Sykes <anonymous@pacbell.net> wrote in message news:<3E569B38.2FBEE3FD@pacbell.net>...  > >> >  N > >> > > I often hear the "EDT is better" stuff, but I can't think of a singleM > >> > > thing that EDT can do that I can't do with my customized TPU editor.  > > H > > Right here you're already in trouble. I don't think anyone ever saidC > > that EDT is better than your customized editor. No one has your  > > customized editor but you! > D > And by the same token, you are in trouble too. Let's snip a bit... >  > <major snip> > 1 > >> > My EDT script is 262 lines (some lines are 7 > >> > comments) and it runs almost instantaneously!!!)  > F > Eh? I find those two statements contradictory. My view of EDT is theM > pure default (without the clutter of someone else's ideas, as contained in  J > SYS$MANAGER:EDTINI.TEMPLATE), and almost certainly doesn't look anything > like yours.   D Well, then you have to compare it with the pure defualt of EVE! EvenF then, EDT wins hands down for me. And even the EVE fans admit that the' default EVE keypad is somewhat lacking.   . > Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!  < Sorry, but you misunderstand. I can see how you came to this$ misunderstanding, so I will explain.  F The original poster seemed to be wondering why anyone *still* uses EDTF when *his* customized version of TPU does everything EDT does and then@ some. Well, first of all, it doesn't do everything EDT does. AndE second, none of us have *his* customized version. But never mind that  for now.  D Now, Don Sykes (the original poster of this subthread) is apparentlyB wondering why anyone uses EDT. Well, EDT came before TPU. So usersF couldn't use TPU until TPU came out, so they used EDT. While they wereA using EDT, they customized it to their liking. So, the choice for A old-time EDT users *is* between the EDT user's customized EDT and E starting from scratch with TPU. The fact that I have a 262-line setup F file doesn't change that. In fact, it makes my case stronger. When TPUF came out, I had a choice: learn the new EVE/TPU editor and recustomizeB it, or stick with EDT and use EVE/TPU only when I need things likeD long lines, convert tabs, paste from Windows, wildcard searches, boxD cut and paste, overstrike mode, or two (or is it multiple?) windows.@ So the longer my customization file, the *harder* it would be toB switch to EVE/TPU. Additionally, I found many things about EVE/TPUC that I didn't like and I couldn't customize them away. So for these E reasons, I found EDT to be better for me. OK? And just to repeat, the E disavantages of EVE and TPU outweigh its advantages, for me. I'll not B repeat all that here, except to say that while I find the featuresE mentioned above useful, for things that both EVE/TPU and EDT can do I D much prefer EDT because it's easier and takes less time (yes, that'sC *in part* because I am already very familiar with EDT), and because ? cursor movement, startup, certain editor behaviors (a catch all @ statement for anything I've overlooked :-), and the frequency of7 annoying questions heavily way in favor of EDT, for me.   B Now you can still say, "Well, if EDT is so good, why do you have a 262-line EDT startup file?"   A That is a good question. First of all, see the first part of this  post.   C Second, it EVE is so good, why is the answer to my complaints about D EVE always "Well, you could write a TPU program!" and why is it thatB the TPU advocates always have so many of these TPU programs (well,D they seem to) and I bet these programs add up to a lot more than 262 lines!  F Third, I was lazy and didn't count the comment lines. So, I sorted theD file and deleted all the commented out lines and found only 84 lines: of actual EDT line mode code. Only five of these lines are$ modifications of "default settings":  $ SET CURS 8:12 ! Adjust cursor range.? SET ENTITY SENTENCE '.%?!' ! Define delimiters for the sentence  entity. (WAS '. ?!'), SET ENTITY WORD ' <HT><FF><CR><LF><VT><ESC>'- SET NOTRUNCATE ! How to deal with long lines. = SET QUIET  ! Suppress the bell or buzzer that signals errors.   E These were easy customizations for me to make and simply are settings C offered by EDT. I like these settings, so I put them in the startup E file to make them my default settings. The SET QUIET and SET ENTITITY A commands were copied from a sample EDTINI.EDT file that was lying E around in my early VMS days. SET NOTRUNCATE can't be done in TPU. SET D CURS can be. So this is not too bad. The rest of my EDT startup file is all DEFINE KEY commands.   E A few of these DEFINE KEY commands are modifications of normal EDT. I B moved a couple of keys for easier use and redefined two other keysE that I found useless: the CHAR key, which pretty much just duplicates C the left and right arrow keys; and the PF2 key which I redefined to C null so that I don't bring up the slow HELP screen via pressing PF2 F inadvertently and it also serves as a "GOLD canceller". So that was no	 big deal.   A Many others are simply shortcuts for frequently used commands and D multiple keystroke combinations. You're *supposed* to use DEFINE KEY? to do that. No big deal. Others are features I designed and the E majority of them weren't that hard to write. Three of them allowed me B to vary the WORD entity allowing to make small, regular, and large@ "words" (for modifying what DEL W and ^J delete). Some of them IA copied from that sample EDT startup file I mentioned already, but > don't use much. Others are leftover one-time-project uses likeC inserting certain then-frequently-used strings that contained LaTeX 
 secret codes.   E Furthermore, it seems to me that it would be a lot more work to write C these customizations in EVE/TPU than it was for me to write them in $ EDT. I may be wrong, but I doubt it.  D So, in summary, the 262-line file really boils down to only 84 linesF of actual EDT code and simply uses EDT features, changes defaults, and? adds cool features, and they are relatively easy to write. With 8 EVE/TPU I have to do a lot more work to achieve the sameC customizations *and* I have to put up with many things I don't care = for, like being told that the string was found in the reverse F direction, even in a 13-line file that contains two occurrences of theC search string and even when I start from the beginning of the file, A and even though it had already found all occurrences of the given D search string! What is the point of this "feature"? It seems really,C really pointless to me to have to have that happen with every "Find B Next" adventure. The editor is basically treating the user like an@ idiot and wasting his time. Is there any way to turn this stupid feature off?  K > I totally fail to see why this subject raises such passions. I use EDT or G > TPU according to the job in hand, with an occasional foray into TECO.   E The reason it raises such passions is that the TPU people always seem E to be implying that anyone using EDT or TECO is an idiot, so I really D resent that. (I also really hate certain things about EVE which I'veB already mentioned, and some TPU-ers really hate EDT and TECO. ) IfF they want to use TPU, I have no problem with it. But they seem to haveC a problem with people using EDT and/or TECO, and, well, they can go F write a TPU program! We EDT-ers are also annoyed when we are told thatE all we have to do is write yet another TPU program as if I would take  only a minute to write.   C BTW, a second thanks to the posters who posted useful TPU code that E will make my life much easier when using the EVE editor. Thank you!!!  It is much appreciated.   O > For multiple source code changes (have you ever edited 150 programs at a time H > and had them all compile cleanly?), EDT and a bit of DCL are the tools > of my choice.    Cool.   J > For viewing several source code or documentation files interactively andG > pasting between them, or simply working through a compilation listing L > and at the same time editing the source to remove typos, TPU is my choice.   OK.   ( > TECO is magic for certain other tasks.  1 I never used TECO. It sounds fascinating, though.   G > As for huge initialization files, I went off them when I was visiting I > multiple customers and/or dealing with virgin systems. I learnt to deal  > with the defaults. > : > The latter point also applies to my LOGIN.COM files too.  ? Seems like quite reasonable behaviour given your circumstances.    J > It is perhaps worth mentioning here that a well respected Unix colleagueH > swears by vi, even when the emacs crowd laugh at him. His reasoning isI > simple - vi exists on every Unix system and is often the only available  > editor in standalone mode.  F And for me, in my graduate student days, EDT worked everywhere and EVE1 worked only on our own VAX 11/750. So I used EDT.    [...]    Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 02:08:16 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> ? Subject: Re: Editor wars - Was: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ? H Message-ID: <kId8a.25305$em1.24797@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  ; "Alan E. Feldman" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote in message 7 news:b096a4ee.0303011500.61043161@posting.google.com...  > * > > TECO is magic for certain other tasks. > 3 > I never used TECO. It sounds fascinating, though.     > TECO was widely used in the days of x.25 as it was/is terriblyF efficient - a relatively few number of keystrokes and potentially vastC changes were made to files residing on the VAX, all without sending E buckets of data across the packet network, for which you were charged ) handsomely for each packet sent/received.   C And in the old days x.25 maxed out at 9600 baud or less, so sending A buckets of data across the Atlantic or around the corner just for 0 editing was not only expensive but slow as well.  F As a crude analogy, think of the differences between how IMAP and POP3B work for e-mail, and that'll give you some idea of the differences4 between using TECO and EDT or TPU as remote editors.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 18:28:10 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>Y Subject: Re: HP can't speak or spell VMS!!!  How do they expect to sell it or even preten / Message-ID: <3E6133F2.12B5D720@vl.videotron.ca>    John Smith wrote: D > > I'd go through my normal channel but two of these numbers are HP > direct   > 1-800-555-9SUN. B > They know how to get you off VMS just as effectively as HP does.    M Send a message to Sue dot Skonetski at HP dot kom and ask her to point you to V a nearby VMS ambassador who should know how to get you in touch with the right people.   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Mar 2003 13:28:56 -0800 1 From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski)  Subject: I am back= Message-ID: <857e9e41.0303011328.48a308c2@posting.google.com>   D Just letting everyone know I am back.  I was in Texas visiting my inF laws.  The had a week of really bad weather.  Freezing rain, I can sayE that in New England we know how to deal with really bad cold weather, 2 they know how to deal with really bad hot weather.   Any way, whats new?   
 warm regards,  sue    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 01:59:35 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>  Subject: Re: I am backH Message-ID: <bAd8a.25303$em1.18649@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  > "Sue Skonetski" <susan_skonetski@hotmail.com> wrote in message7 news:857e9e41.0303011328.48a308c2@posting.google.com... F > Just letting everyone know I am back.  I was in Texas visiting my inD > laws.  The had a week of really bad weather.  Freezing rain, I can say > > that in New England we know how to deal with really bad cold weather,4 > they know how to deal with really bad hot weather. >  > Any way, whats new?     
 Welcome back.   = I wish I could say that there has been a vast advertising and E marketing campaign launched for VMS during your vacation, and that if B you missed the ads on TV and in the business sections of the localB newspapers then you were having way too much fun on your vacation, but....can you guess...    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 22:20:56 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>  Subject: Re: I am back' Message-ID: <3E6186A8.DDE28C4D@fsi.net>    Sue Skonetski wrote: > F > Just letting everyone know I am back.  I was in Texas visiting my inH > laws.  The had a week of really bad weather.  Freezing rain, I can sayG > that in New England we know how to deal with really bad cold weather, 4 > they know how to deal with really bad hot weather. >  > Any way, whats new?    In VMS land?  F Well, we're slowly getting our GS1280s installed, but the locals are aG bit put out that the FEs are using us as their honds-on training. Seems G no one has been trained on 'em yet, and their learn by doc.'s and their  own tech. support.  2 Not unexpected, but we'd hoped to be proven wrong.  F The storage arrays were still in Texas, at last word. Should have been here a week ago. *SIGH*    Outside of VMS-land?  C Well, there's this little black cat that's been prowling around our E house since last season. A week ago, the wife was sitting in front of F the glass doors in the dining area, and little black cat comes lookingE in through the glass, "talking" to her. So, she feeds the little one. D Now we have a regular "guest" for dinner almost everyday. Kitty evenD came around this a.m., so we got to see our new little friend in the( daylight. Dunno if it's a he or a she...  G We used our tax refund money to buy some new furniture. First time ever @ for me. The last couch we had, we got from an outlet store. Nice1 dual-reclining couch and a reclining chair. Nice!   E We missed the snow storms that have pounded New England and the other B places. Then again, the whole season has been rather dry. Hope the spring rains don't disappoint.  8 Hope all is well with you and yours, at home and work...   Best Always,   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 21:21:49 -05005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> 8 Subject: Re: Linus trashes Itanium - he's scared of VMS!/ Message-ID: <mUd8a.724$8F.670@news.cpqcorp.net>   H Wow.  Please share with us the competetive analysis of Intels production6 costs.  Or are you simply pulling it out of your butt?    5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message , news:_MGcnRxUyJLH__2jXTWcpg@metrocast.net... > F > "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star-dot-zko-dot-dec-dot-com> wrote in message * > news:3e5f9e74$1_2@hpb10302.boi.hp.com... > > 9 > > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message 0 > > news:d6CcnYRy8sYOFcOjXTWcow@metrocast.net... > > >  > > > J > > > I don't like or particularly respect Itanic, largely for the reasons > > already K > > > noted:  it achieves its competitive performance by the application of 	 > > brute I > > > force and band-aids to a fairly misbegotten architectural approach.  But  > > the K > > > resulting raw performance *is* competitive, even though the resulting ? > > > price/performance and ease of future enhancements is not.  > > >  > > * > > It's price/performance is competetive. > J > Whoops - you're right, and it should continue to be for as long as Intel isJ > willing to lose money on each one produced.  It's its *cost*/performanceF > that isn't competitive, due to the significantly larger chip area it. > requires to achieve competitive performance. > # >   It is priced to compete against B > > other 64-bit chips used in UNIX servers.  It's "ease of future > enhancements" 0 > > isn't really interesting - only the results. > H > Well, so far the result is that no significant enhancements will occur fromG > 2002 until at least 2006, which some people might consider a drawback G > (though I'm sure its competition is not unhappy with that situation).  > " >   And even without architecturalL > > innovation, it's - as you indicate - "brute force" approach lends itself? > > well to simply driving the process down and clock rates up.  > J > Unfortunately, until the brute force approach is replaced power and chipB > area requirements will continue to make it uncompetitive in both operational  > and production costs.  >  > - bill >  >  >    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 21:27:51 -0500* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>8 Subject: Re: Linus trashes Itanium - he's scared of VMS!2 Message-ID: <Uv6cnduryYO28fyjXTWcqA@metrocast.net>  @ "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message) news:mUd8a.724$8F.670@news.cpqcorp.net... J > Wow.  Please share with us the competetive analysis of Intels production8 > costs.  Or are you simply pulling it out of your butt?  J Well, for starters, I sincerely doubt that Intel is incapable of producingB Xeons (definitely competition for Itanic - as recent comments fromJ distributors about client interest in Xeons and marked lack of interest inE Itanics have made clear) as efficiently as Itanics, so since the Xeon I out-performs Itanic using considerably less chip area it provides a proof L point independent of whether other manufacturers may also be able to produce9 their competitive (but smaller) products at an advantage.   L Perhaps you should stop pulling such comments out of your own butt and start using what brains you may have.    - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 22:37:57 GMT 6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)2 Subject: Re: Problems with Java and OpenVMS V7.3-15 Message-ID: <9Da8a.176281$Rb4.2203745@news.chello.at>   e In article <MDEJJFGEEOPAFONJONBKOEPKCMAA.win@fom.fgan.de>, "Rudolf Wingert" <win@fom.fgan.de> writes: M >now I know a little bit more about our problems. I did install and test Java J >on a dual CPU DS20 AlphaStation. If I do stopp one of them the problem isG >away. The command $java -version do never hang regards less of version 5 >(V1.3.1-5 or 1.4.0-1) and type (Fast VM or Classic). M >Does anybody have an idea, what the problem could be, if I will have a multi  >CPU Alpha?   I According to the (lost) JAVA Performance Guide Quotas Recommendations are   6 /BIO=150/BYT=400000/DIO=150/FIL=4096/PG=2097152/TQ=100 /WSD=2048/DIO=150/WSQ=4096  I as a start (and 6/500 512MB for average) and the ECOs (ACRTL and PTHREAD) J and sort the JAVA classes in JAVA$CLASSPATH (bigger Class Archives first).  I I heard of another switch "-XO" which should make some things much faster , (check yourself - I did not test it so far).  I And of course the various logicals for the CRTL and JAVA itself. Too much E to count (maybe 50). Thats why it became a whole Performance Guide...   F I so far hasn't seen any mentions of JAVA problems on SMP but I'm only, a JAVA starter to this means nothing at all.  G So, if you are already beyond this point, ask HPQ to get a copy of this F guide (as soon as it adheres to corporate and trademark standards ;-).   HIH    --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 22:47:25 +0100  From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>% Subject: Re: Questions on SSH for VMS 2 Message-ID: <b3r9p5$vs8$1@news4.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>   Lawrence Bleau wrote: @ > Hi, I'm looking for SSH (secure shell) for VMS Alpha (V7.1-2).L > First, let me see if I'm correct in my concepts; please correct me or fill > in the blanks as needed. > L > The VMS TCPIP (product TCPIP, formerly UCX) stack does not have encryptionK > built in.  This can be added, and is done in the session layer of the OSI M > network model.  The thing that needs to be added is known as secure session F > layer (SSL).  This is provided by an add-on product, one of which is8 > OpenSSL, which is freely available; another is SSLeay. > = > Right so far?  If so, I have a few questions at this point:  > J > 1) If SSL is added couldn't all application layer entities (telnet, ftp,K > email) potentially go through SSL?  Would one even have to have a special 5 > product at the app layer to make encryption work?    > L > 2) The encryption would have to be negotiated, wouldn't it?  Even if everyG > app goes through the session layer, and thence through SSL, not every D > remote system has SSL installed, so there'd need to be a handshake' > somewhere for this.  Correct on this?  > L > 3) Does the various SSL products interact properly?  I.e., If one site hasB > OpenSSL and another has SSLeay, will they talk to each other and > encrypt/decrypt properly?  > I > 4) What determines the encryption/decryption method?  Related to Q3, is L > this what has to be agreed upon beforehand, or can they switch on the fly? > 	 > Onward:  > K > Secure Shell (SSH), as I understand it (please correct me if wrong), is a H > means to permit remote interactive logins and file transfers using SSLL > encryption.  These do what telnet and ftp currently do.  Like most network1 > products, it has both a client and server part.  > L > OpenSSH is a client implementation of SSH, but on its web site I don't seeK > VMS listed as an OS it works on.  FISH is a VMS implementation, and while L > it is available, it has been discontinued.  Its successor (BAMSE) is stillI > under development, and hasn't yet reached a stable, feature-rich state.  > M > SSH_SERVER is a server implementation (courtesy of Ohio State U).  Its last G > update (according to the release notes) is Apr 2002, so I assume it's J > fairly stable, major bugs gone, although its own readme files states the > implementation is "crude". >  > Questions: > J > 5) Are there any other free SSH clients or servers for OpenVMS?  Or, are; > there any products that implement both client and server?  > J > 6) Has anyone had recent experience - positive or negative - with any of > the above products?  > J > 7) Will the old (unencrypted) telnet and ftp continue to work?  I see noJ > reason they would not, as long as SSH listens on a different port, but I@ > might as well ask, because I know I'll be asked this question. >  > Thanks, all. >  > Lawrence Bleau > University of Maryland$ > Physics Dept., Space Physics Group > 301-405-6223 > bleau@umtof.umd.edu     P SSH will be a standard part of TCP/IP V5.4. It will be based on the 'real' SSH. O I don't know if you will be able to use TCP/IP V5.4 with VMS 7.1-2. An upgrade   to VMS 7.3-1 may be advisable.  E You may be able to get a field test kit of SSH if you ask nicely :-).    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 15:13:14 -0700 % From: Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com> % Subject: Re: Questions on SSH for VMS A Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20030301151203.017f85a0@raptor.psccos.com>   & At 02:47 PM 3/1/2003, Dirk Munk wrote: >Lawrence Bleau wrote:@ >>Hi, I'm looking for SSH (secure shell) for VMS Alpha (V7.1-2).L >>First, let me see if I'm correct in my concepts; please correct me or fill >>in the blanks as needed. > L >SSH will be a standard part of TCP/IP V5.4. It will be based on the 'real' J >SSH. I don't know if you will be able to use TCP/IP V5.4 with VMS 7.1-2. * >An upgrade to VMS 7.3-1 may be advisable.  L *BUT* it will only provide an SSH client, no server.  And it certainly won't5 run on anything older, unlike Process Software's SSH.    ------J +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+J | Dan O'Reilly                  |  "There are 10 types of people in this |J | Principal Engineer            |   world: those who understand binary   |J | Process Software              |   and those who don't."                |J | http://www.process.com        |                                        |J +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 22:42:27 GMT 7 From: brad@.homeportal.2wire.net (Bradford J. Hamilton) % Subject: Re: Questions on SSH for VMS . Message-ID: <nHa8a.309583$be.286223@rwcrnsc53>  i In article <5.2.0.9.2.20030301151203.017f85a0@raptor.psccos.com>, Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com> writes: ' >At 02:47 PM 3/1/2003, Dirk Munk wrote:  >>Lawrence Bleau wrote: A >>>Hi, I'm looking for SSH (secure shell) for VMS Alpha (V7.1-2). M >>>First, let me see if I'm correct in my concepts; please correct me or fill  >>>in the blanks as needed.  >>M >>SSH will be a standard part of TCP/IP V5.4. It will be based on the 'real'  K >>SSH. I don't know if you will be able to use TCP/IP V5.4 with VMS 7.1-2.  + >>An upgrade to VMS 7.3-1 may be advisable.  > M >*BUT* it will only provide an SSH client, no server.  And it certainly won't 6 >run on anything older, unlike Process Software's SSH.  L Really  Does that mean that one will not be able to ssh *into* a TCP/IP V5.4! box, but only ssh *from* the box?   O If that is true, then the TCP/IP folks have it bass-ackwards, IMO.  I know of a O large, private financial-services firm, where the "corporate standard" dictates K using ssh from WINNT/2K/XP workstations into various servers.  This company N declined to purchase SSH for TCP/IP, because they were convinced that HP would- come up with an SSH server for TCP/IP "soon".     >  >------ K >+-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+ K >| Dan O'Reilly                  |  "There are 10 types of people in this | K >| Principal Engineer            |   world: those who understand binary   | K >| Process Software              |   and those who don't."                | K >| http://www.process.com        |                                        | K >+-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+  >  >   A _________________________________________________________________ 0 Bradford J. Hamilton			"All opinions are my own"/ bMradAhamiPltSon@atMtAbi.cPoSm		"Lose the MAPS"    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Mar 2003 13:09:16 -0800 1 From: mike_hutcheson@hotmail.com (Mike Hutcheson) 1 Subject: running autogen on alternate system disk = Message-ID: <c7fe9387.0303011309.313ccc29@posting.google.com>   F Hi.  I have a VMS 7.3 system with two system disks.  Is it possible to? run autogen against the system disk that I haven't booted from?    Thanks for your help,    Mike Hutcheson Systems Manager  Baylor University    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 21:39:16 GMT 7 From: brad@.homeportal.2wire.net (Bradford J. Hamilton) 5 Subject: Re: running autogen on alternate system disk - Message-ID: <7M98a.278691$2H6.4795@sccrnsc04>   q In article <c7fe9387.0303011309.313ccc29@posting.google.com>, mike_hutcheson@hotmail.com (Mike Hutcheson) writes: G >Hi.  I have a VMS 7.3 system with two system disks.  Is it possible to @ >run autogen against the system disk that I haven't booted from?   Hi Mike,  : We might need some more information, in order to help you.  I Do you mean that you have a single (non-clustered) system with two system N disks?  Is "the system disk that I haven't booted from" a backup disk?  A disk; meant to be able to boot the system if the "primary" fails?    >  >Thanks for your help, >  >Mike Hutcheson  >Systems Manager >Baylor University   Thanks,   A _________________________________________________________________ 0 Bradford J. Hamilton			"All opinions are my own"/ bMradAhamiPltSon@atMtAbi.cPoSm		"Lose the MAPS"    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 16:42:01 -05001 From: "David Reed" <junkman24@nospam.comcast.net>  Subject: Re: Terminal Servers 0 Message-ID: <AsKdnTSai49_tfyjXTWcow@comcast.com>  ' Thanks for the responses to my inquiry. H I should have been more specific I suppose. I'm running VMS 6.2 and UCX.I Using 90TL's with 4 meg upgrade using bootp to load. The terminal servers F themselves are not at issue, I can connect to them using lat and I canK telnet to them from a PC or VAX etc. if I define the default protocol for a  particular port as TELNET.G The problem is that I have a (very) old piece of software that accesses @ serial devices (bidirectional) through the terminal servers in aC manufacturing environment. Modifying the software is not an option. K The software configuration utility requests the name of a terminal "device" H when starting up. If I enter the name of a LAT device it works fine. ForJ reasons outside the scope of this discussion I would like to eliminate theL LAT protocol on our network and convert to IP exclusively. What I need to doB therefore is set up a device on the VAX that my software will findE acceptable but using IP with the existing hardware. I don't have much H experience doing this and would appreciate any additional pointers. I'll2 tinker using the suggestions I've recieved so far. Thanks again........ ............David    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 21:22:59 GMT ) From: Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>  Subject: Re: unix ) Message-ID: <3E6123E8.4AEB9802@yahoo.com>    jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > + > In article <rb26j-hcj.ln1@pez.jarai.com>, 3 >    bdc@world.std.com (Brian 'Jarai' Chase) wrote: G > >Consider the role of subtle differences and diversity in the process F > >of natural selection and in evolution in general.  One of the greatF > >strengths of Unix and Unix-like operating systems is their inherentC > >ability to adapt to the needs of a wide variety of target users.  > A > Sorry, you've got it bass-ackwards and this is a very important < > point.  The only reason those adaptations are happening is: > because enough users have the sources to implement them.  C Yes, but *you* shipped each release, and it was then the customer's H problem to retrofit their changes if they wanted to stay current.  ThereF is no one source for unix, and hence lots of drift.  I still have some- hope for Linux, but less now than previously.   G I love having source.  I fought IBM a long time when they went OCO, but B I'd like to see everyone start out from the same set of sources atD various points in time, and *then* do whatever they want to it.  The; next "release" could incorporate the best of what was done.    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 03:30:07 GMT - From: bdc@world.std.com (Brian 'Jarai' Chase)  Subject: Re: unix ) Message-ID: <en88j-q3l.ln1@pez.jarai.com>   G In article <b3qhii$nu2$4@bob.news.rcn.net>,  <jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote: + > In article <rb26j-hcj.ln1@pez.jarai.com>, 3 >    bdc@world.std.com (Brian 'Jarai' Chase) wrote:   H > > Consider the role of subtle differences and diversity in the processG > > of natural selection and in evolution in general.  One of the great G > > strengths of Unix and Unix-like operating systems is their inherent D > > ability to adapt to the needs of a wide variety of target users. > A > Sorry, you've got it bass-ackwards and this is a very important < > point.  The only reason those adaptations are happening is: > because enough users have the sources to implement them.  D Exactly!  That's one of those intrinsics of Unix I was hinting at.  I Another very important one was making portability of the OS a fundamental H design goal.  Unix goes out of its way to make itself easy to be copied.  E > No company exists that has both enough manpower and time to it all.   F Agreed.  And Unix had the good fortune of AT&T deciding to license theH source to a wide variety of companies and educational institutions. ThisH is yet another strength of Unix, which allowed for those organization toI create a diverse collection of Unices with different features and pricing D schemes, all available on a variety of hardware of even more varying characteristics and costs.  B > It was one of TOPS-10's strengths to ship its sources.  Not only? > could customers do customized changes, they could upgrade our A > stuff and still be able to use their stuff after a <ahem>little @ > bit of work.  My point is that it was possible to evolve their= > software as ours evolves.  That can't happen if sources and * > the tools to mush them aren't available.  C Yes, and I'm not trying to say that Unix is technically better than G TOPS-10 or any of its other contemporary OSes.  My point is that it has H the ability to survive and perpetuate itself better than any other OS.  J That's all; I'm not singing the technical praises of Unix above and beyondH all other OSes.  I'm saying it's hard to kill, because, really, no /one/G controls it anymore.  Between the companies who've already licensed and I have been developing their own Unix versions for years, and the untainted ; Unix-like OSes, there's no one place to go to eliminate it.   C A contrasting approach was that of DEC's.  DEC created non-portable I operating systems, whose source they kept control of, and which were tied G to specific architectures.  Again and again, the whims of the owners of E those OSes and the machines upon which those depended, were such that J those systems were killed.  The one exception being VMS, which still isn'tG terribly portable--it seems to require herculean efforts of coding each J time it's moved to a new processor architecture--but it is still kicking, 
 more or less.   @ > Unix could suck eggs but people will still use it if, and only< > if, they get the sources.  One of DEC's fatal mistakes was< > to try to keep the "knowledge", a.k.a. sources, to itself;; > it was under the misconception that secrecy would protect > > its investment and intellectual property.  This is one case # > where the exact opposite is true.   F Unix owes its success to the lack of those sorts of controls, and to aF certain mindset behind it which, in many cases, directly opposes those& controls by embracing "their absence."  I Another notable example is IBM's PC and PC-AT architecture.  The computer G industry exploded with PC clone makers becuase of this.  And, IMHO, the J success of Microsoft is owed a more to IBM's open PC design than any greatG economic genius on Microsoft's part.  They did use this good fortune to G their advantage, and also did much to fuel it, but IBM made it possible D (whether they intended to or not).  This is equally true of the moreH recent surge in popularity of x86 Linux and the *BSDs; they also rode inH on, and continue to ride, the resulting wave of cheap and fast hardware.   -brian.    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 19:38:39 GMT 6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)6 Subject: Re: [CDU] Compiler doesn't work over DECnet ?5 Message-ID: <3%78a.173636$Rb4.2182765@news.chello.at>   n In article <N9b7a.118024$Rb4.1543572@news.chello.at>, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) writes:    Sorry to followup my own posting  L >In article <3E5B3A88.99521E23@hp.com>, Guy Peleg <guy.peleg@hp.com> writes:J >>It looks like CDU is using RMS function which is not supported in DECNET
 >>operations.  > 3 >Sounds like an easy problem for you in my ears ;-)    I suppose, we all still hope...   > >>Out of interest, when was the last time this command worked? > G >I can't remember that it ever worked. Maybe some other one can step in H >for a more precise answer. But as I wrote, I already found this problem@ >some years/versions ago (probably for exactly the same reason).  D I've narrowed it down to "problem exists only if a VAX is involved".J VAX to VAX => 0 Blocks, Alpha to VAX => 0 Blocks, VAX to Alpha => 0 BlocksK Alpha to Alpha => Works (I tried OpenVMS VAX V7.3 and OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-1)   J So, the 'unsupported' RMS function seems to work over DECnet sometimes ;-)   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.119 ************************