1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 04 Mar 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 124       Contents:" Re: Announcing Weatherduck for VMS" Re: Announcing Weatherduck for VMS" Re: Announcing Weatherduck for VMS" Re: Announcing Weatherduck for VMS" Re: Announcing Weatherduck for VMS" Re: Announcing Weatherduck for VMS" Re: Announcing Weatherduck for VMS" Re: Announcing Weatherduck for VMS" Re: Announcing Weatherduck for VMS" Re: Announcing Weatherduck for VMS" Re: Announcing Weatherduck for VMS" Re: Announcing Weatherduck for VMS" Re: Announcing Weatherduck for VMS6 Re: Anyone use a Compaq 20/40 dlt tape drive in a vax?6 Re: Anyone use a Compaq 20/40 dlt tape drive in a vax? Re: Athens Olympics  Re: Athens Olympics  Re: Athens Olympics  Behind the struggle for HP2 Re: Bill Gates says you "get what you pay for" ...2 Re: Bill Gates says you "get what you pay for" ... Re: C-Kermit 8.0.208 Re: C-Kermit 8.0.208 Re: C-Kermit 8.0.2086 Re: Editor wars - Was: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?6 Re: Editor wars - Was: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?6 Re: Editor wars - Was: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?6 Re: Editor wars - Was: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?6 Re: Editor wars - Was: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?6 Re: Editor wars - Was: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?. Re: EDT and command tables have invalid format. Re: EDT and command tables have invalid format. Re: EDT and command tables have invalid formatP Re: EDT and command tables have invalid format (was: Re: What makes the VMS port" hobbiest RDB/Sql*Services security Re: I'll be on British soil... Re: I'll be on British soil... Re: I'll be on British soil... Re: I'll be on British soil...) Re: I'm going to sleep so well tonight !! > Ideas for implementing fork() on VMS ?, was: Re: fork() on VMSB Re: Ideas for implementing fork() on VMS ?, was: Re: fork() on VMS Internet attacks Re: Internet attacks Re: Internet attacks/ Re: Linus trashes Itanium - he's scared of VMS!   RE: MONITOR SYSTEM screen values  Re: MONITOR SYSTEM screen values  Re: MONITOR SYSTEM screen values  Re: MONITOR SYSTEM screen values- OpenVMS Ambassadors who have left DEC/CPQ/HPQ 1 Re: OpenVMS Ambassadors who have left DEC/CPQ/HPQ ! Re: OpenVMS Hobbyist SPL - Update  Re: oracle benchmarks on VMS Re: oracle benchmarks on VMS, Re: OT: America's Cup  [ was Re: I am back ], Re: OT: America's Cup  [ was Re: I am back ], Re: OT: America's Cup  [ was Re: I am back ]5 Re: PC developers opinion of 64 bit desktop computing 5 Re: PC developers opinion of 64 bit desktop computing  Re: Questions on SSH for VMS Re: Questions on SSH for VMS Re: Questions on SSH for VMS Re: Questions on SSH for VMS Re: Questions on SSH for VMS0 Sending OPCOM or Security Audit events via email4 Re: Sending OPCOM or Security Audit events via email4 Re: Sending OPCOM or Security Audit events via email4 Re: Sending OPCOM or Security Audit events via email4 Re: Sending OPCOM or Security Audit events via emailN SIMH 2.10-4 released: major bug fixes to PDP-8, PDP-11, VAX, PDP-15, Interdata3 strange behaviour of SET ENVIRONMENT/NODE in SYSMAN  Re: unix Re: unix Re: unix Re: unix Re: unix RE: unix Re: unix Re: unix+ Upgrade to OPEN VMS 7.3-1 - Patches needed? / Re: Upgrade to OPEN VMS 7.3-1 - Patches needed? / Re: Upgrade to OPEN VMS 7.3-1 - Patches needed? / Re: Upgrade to OPEN VMS 7.3-1 - Patches needed? / Re: Upgrade to OPEN VMS 7.3-1 - Patches needed?  VCC_MAXSIZE  Re: VMS Backup solutions Re: VMS Backup solutions1 Re: Wow - OpenVMS Job Advert in UK Computer Press  Re: [DFG] Some questions6 Re: [OT] Wow - OpenVMS Job Advert in UK Computer Press  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 11:42:52 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG+ Subject: Re: Announcing Weatherduck for VMS 0 Message-ID: <00A1C5A1.BE328AFC@SendSpamHere.ORG>  d In article <43840735.0303031943.4e2a9568@posting.google.com>, bfarmer@wcfa.com (Bill Farmer) writes:G >The Weatherduck is a $179.00 environment monitor that communicates via  >RS232.   D I looked at the web site but I can't figure out how to order one (or more).  E There is no pricing on the S/W or the various connector option listed  on the page either.   , What can you tell us about these two issues?  , Quick answers are rewarded with quick sales. --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 07:04:56 -0600  From: brandon@dalsemi.com + Subject: Re: Announcing Weatherduck for VMS 1 Message-ID: <03030407045690@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>    I figured it out -    # Click on Ducko's Weather Duck Store  Then clik on Dollars (US)   2 WxDux  WeatherDuck (1) with Software  $  179.00 USF Clutch SixPack (6) WeatherDucks, Bulk Packaged w/Software $  999.00 US5 RT12 Remote Temperature Sensor 12' cord $    30.00 US 9 MS-1 Magnetic (Door) Sensor w/25 foot cord $      7.50 US 7 WxDuxVMS  DuckCo's OpenVMS WeatherDuck S/W $   49.00 US % EthDux Ether/Duck Package $ 328.00 US ' D7-1 DecServer700 Adaptor $    15.00 US ' D2-1 DecServer200 Adaptor $    15.00 US % C-1 Cisco Router Adaptor $   10.00 US      Click Add to Cart...  > Damn, does this mean I am turning into a salemen???  gasp argh   John Brandon VMS Systems Administrator  Dallas Semiconductor john.brandon@dalsemi.com 972.371.4172 wk  972.371.4003 fx    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 14:49:44 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG+ Subject: Re: Announcing Weatherduck for VMS 0 Message-ID: <00A1C5BB.D9469367@SendSpamHere.ORG>  M In article <03030407045690@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>, brandon@dalsemi.com writes:  >I figured it out -  > $ >Click on Ducko's Weather Duck Store   Where do you see this?  F www.weatherduck.us has links to two location sunning demos and several6 links to pictures of the options and a webmaster link.   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 09:59:44 -0600  From: brandon@dalsemi.com + Subject: Re: Announcing Weatherduck for VMS 1 Message-ID: <03030409594436@dscis7-0.dalsemi.com>    > >I figured it out -  > > & > >Click on Ducko's Weather Duck Store >  > Where do you see this? >   / At the very bottom of the page - use this link:   * http://www.weatherduck.us/Store_Frames.htm  O Then on that page, there is Dollars (US), Pounds Sterling (GB), and Euro links.      John Brandon VMS Systems Administrator  Dallas Semiconductor john.brandon@dalsemi.com 972.371.4172 wk  972.371.4003 fx    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 16:34:21 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG+ Subject: Re: Announcing Weatherduck for VMS 0 Message-ID: <00A1C5CA.76D55BA5@SendSpamHere.ORG>  M In article <03030409594436@dscis7-0.dalsemi.com>, brandon@dalsemi.com writes:  >> >I figured it out -   >> >' >> >Click on Ducko's Weather Duck Store  >>   >> Where do you see this?  >>   > 0 >At the very bottom of the page - use this link: > + >http://www.weatherduck.us/Store_Frames.htm  > P >Then on that page, there is Dollars (US), Pounds Sterling (GB), and Euro links.  P This page doesn't show me any pricing either.  Just a link to PayPal or order by phone, email or snail mail.    --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 10:40:21 -0600  From: brandon@dalsemi.com + Subject: Re: Announcing Weatherduck for VMS 1 Message-ID: <03030410402182@dscis7-0.dalsemi.com>   R > >Then on that page, there is Dollars (US), Pounds Sterling (GB), and Euro links. > R > This page doesn't show me any pricing either.  Just a link to PayPal or order by > phone, email or snail mail.  >   _ Well, yeah it does not show you the pricing.  You must click on Dollars (US) to see the prices.   * Then you get the Add to Cart icons, etc...   John Brandon VMS Systems Administrator  Dallas Semiconductor john.brandon@dalsemi.com 972.371.4172 wk  972.371.4003 fx    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Mar 2003 10:59:56 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) + Subject: Re: Announcing Weatherduck for VMS 3 Message-ID: <yTLUHNOUSyV4@eisner.encompasserve.org>   M In article <03030410402182@dscis7-0.dalsemi.com>, brandon@dalsemi.com writes: S >> >Then on that page, there is Dollars (US), Pounds Sterling (GB), and Euro links.  >>  S >> This page doesn't show me any pricing either.  Just a link to PayPal or order by  >> phone, email or snail mail. >>   > a > Well, yeah it does not show you the pricing.  You must click on Dollars (US) to see the prices.   E Looking at http://www.weatherduck.us/Store_Frames.htm I don't see the I word "Dollars".  I do see "Click on the appropriate Currency for the sale  destination.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 17:06:47 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG+ Subject: Re: Announcing Weatherduck for VMS 0 Message-ID: <00A1C5CE.FE740D9B@SendSpamHere.ORG>  M In article <03030410402182@dscis7-0.dalsemi.com>, brandon@dalsemi.com writes: S >> >Then on that page, there is Dollars (US), Pounds Sterling (GB), and Euro links.  >>  S >> This page doesn't show me any pricing either.  Just a link to PayPal or order by  >> phone, email or snail mail. >>   > ` >Well, yeah it does not show you the pricing.  You must click on Dollars (US) to see the prices.  ) OK.  And where does it say Dollar (US)???    --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 12:24:04 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>+ Subject: Re: Announcing Weatherduck for VMS / Message-ID: <3E64D322.EAD6120D@vl.videotron.ca>    brandon@dalsemi.com wrote:1 > At the very bottom of the page - use this link:  > , > http://www.weatherduck.us/Store_Frames.htm > Q > Then on that page, there is Dollars (US), Pounds Sterling (GB), and Euro links.  >   ; I is one of those "I had to do a view source"  types sites.   N The guy expects you to have JAVA to be able to click on the link that gets youK to the store. And Javascript to see the examples (Time Warner Colorado and   WCF DR Center buttons).   L If you have java disabled, none of the optiosn appear because each option is its own JAVA applet.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 17:29:28 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG+ Subject: Re: Announcing Weatherduck for VMS 0 Message-ID: <00A1C5D2.2981A79B@SendSpamHere.ORG>  c In article <yTLUHNOUSyV4@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: N >In article <03030410402182@dscis7-0.dalsemi.com>, brandon@dalsemi.com writes:T >>> >Then on that page, there is Dollars (US), Pounds Sterling (GB), and Euro links. >>> T >>> This page doesn't show me any pricing either.  Just a link to PayPal or order by >>> phone, email or snail mail.  >>>  >>  b >> Well, yeah it does not show you the pricing.  You must click on Dollars (US) to see the prices. > F >Looking at http://www.weatherduck.us/Store_Frames.htm I don't see theJ >word "Dollars".  I do see "Click on the appropriate Currency for the sale
 >destination.     K It's all moot now.  I called Bill Farmer and placed an order.  New toys are 
 on their way.    --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 12:33:00 -0500 From: norm.raphael@metso.com+ Subject: Re: Announcing Weatherduck for VMS ? Message-ID: <OF37C13E9E.E2204FB5-ON85256CDF.00603E66@metso.com>    >System Requirements: B >VMS is 6.2 Alpha. (VAX 5.5-2 and higher will be supported in Q2.) >UCX  ( Will this work with Multinet or TCPware? Is OpenVMS Alpha V7* supported?    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 17:58:46 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG+ Subject: Re: Announcing Weatherduck for VMS 0 Message-ID: <00A1C5D6.41BCBF0A@SendSpamHere.ORG>  ^ In article <OF37C13E9E.E2204FB5-ON85256CDF.00603E66@metso.com>, norm.raphael@metso.com writes: >  >  >>System Requirements:C >>VMS is 6.2 Alpha. (VAX 5.5-2 and higher will be supported in Q2.)  >>UCX  > ) >Will this work with Multinet or TCPware?   >Is OpenVMS Alpha V7* supported? >  >   K Bill Farmer asked me if I had NETLIB installed.  Apparently the software he K wrote uses it; therefore, I would assume that it would function with all of & the currently available TCP/IP stacks.   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 18:02:42 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG+ Subject: Re: Announcing Weatherduck for VMS 0 Message-ID: <00A1C5D6.CDDEDC9B@SendSpamHere.ORG>  b In article <3E64D322.EAD6120D@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes: >brandon@dalsemi.com wrote: 2 >> At the very bottom of the page - use this link: >>  - >> http://www.weatherduck.us/Store_Frames.htm  >>  R >> Then on that page, there is Dollars (US), Pounds Sterling (GB), and Euro links. >>   > < >I is one of those "I had to do a view source"  types sites. > O >The guy expects you to have JAVA to be able to click on the link that gets you L >to the store. And Javascript to see the examples (Time Warner Colorado and  >WCF DR Center buttons). > M >If you have java disabled, none of the optiosn appear because each option is  >its own JAVA applet.   K I was using CSWB (Compaq Slower-that-frigid-sap Web Browser) and didn't see L any of these "Java" applets.  Is it that Java is not enabled by default withL CSWB?  I looked under "Advanced" in the "Preferences" menu and "Enable Java" is presently checked.    --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 09:29:57 -0500 ! From: Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu> ? Subject: Re: Anyone use a Compaq 20/40 dlt tape drive in a vax? ' Message-ID: <3E64B865.94F0A64E@vcu.edu>   G i'm sorry guys.  I'd replied offline to Mr. Webb, but forgot the thread B here. Thanks for all this useful information pouring in on this, I+ did'nt expect such an outpouring of help!!!   	 Thanks!!!   @ the main box is a microvax 3900, but clustered with a vs3100m38,C vs3100m78, and soon a vs4000m60, with a vs4000m90 coming later this 5 year.  the 4090 will become the main boot node then..   F the tape drive will be hanging off a vaxstations 3100 m38, I have thatD compaq 20/40 avail, will soon have a dlt (dec model, too, exact type- unknown, still in nt box) avail that's 15/30. 6 I'm leaning to the dat since tapes are cheaper, etc...  H we're stuck at 5.5-2 for reasons of workload, old version of Ingres, andF all new work is being done on newer boxes now...  However, due to someH tools (teco) i still use this box for some development in perl/cgi whileD I'm learning vim...  no editor/os wars, now please guys and gals and
 aliens????   Hoff Hoffman wrote:  > k > In article <_0GdnRgcn5ZNHcOjXTWc3g@brightview.com>, "Jefferson Humber" <matrix01@globalnet.co.uk> writes: D > :I have used a Compaq external 20/40 DLT on a VAX 4000-100 running! > :5.5-2H4..... worked OK for me.  > : J > :I think if I remember correctly OpenVMS see's it as 'Generic TZ Drive'. > E >   Close.  Usually Generic MK, but the device names can and do vary.  > B >   Releases as old as V5.5-2 are not particularly good at genericA >   SCSI device support -- I generally encourage V6.2 and V7.1 as A >   being better choices, given improvements made in SCSI support - >   in these (and in later) OpenVMS releases.  > 1 > :"Jim Agnew" <jpagnew@vcu.edu> wrote in message $ > :news:3E5E664C.77A4C2E4@vcu.edu...M > :> Version 5.5-2 VMS  they say it's not supported til v7 or so, but if it's K > :> a generic scsi tape, that works, that's enuf for me.. I just happen to H > :> have one laying around, and would like to see if it works before we# > :> cought up for an adapter.. ;-)  > G >   Which VAX (Jefferson Humber mentioned a VAX 4000 model 100, but Jim J >   Agnew has yet to admit to a particular model :-), and which DAT drive? > G >   This stuff probably works as a generic device, but there are rather I >   few specific details here for anything approaching certainty -- newer J >   versions of OpenVMS do expect more from SCSI tape drives, and this canK >   cause (harmless) messages to be logged against certain drives.  (Please I >   see the OpenVMS V7.3 release notes for "Stricter Requirement for Mode - >   Page 1 on SCSI Tape Drives" for details.)  > L >   If the (unnamed) VAX box does not have SCSI, then the connection can getI >   rather more "interesting" -- systems without native SCSI usually mean I >   boxes with DSSI or Q-bus or some other connection, and from there out  >   to SCSI.  If possible. > E >   Another obvious option is to cluster with or network with a newer E >   OpenVMS VAX or (better) OpenVMS Alpha box (with native SCSI), and E >   avoid the whole controller-related problem.  You might be able to D >   add a whole (used) box for the same time and effort spent on the, >   SCSI controller and support issues here. > P >  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------L >       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.comP >  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------G >         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    --  F "4,000 years ago I made a mistake."  Elrond Half-Elven, in "Fellowship of the Ring"   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 12:11:23 -0600 / From: Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> ? Subject: Re: Anyone use a Compaq 20/40 dlt tape drive in a vax? 3 Message-ID: <3E64EC4B.D2817033@applied-synergy.com>    Jim Agnew wrote: > I > i'm sorry guys.  I'd replied offline to Mr. Webb, but forgot the thread D > here. Thanks for all this useful information pouring in on this, I- > did'nt expect such an outpouring of help!!!  >  > Thanks!!!  > B > the main box is a microvax 3900, but clustered with a vs3100m38,E > vs3100m78, and soon a vs4000m60, with a vs4000m90 coming later this 7 > year.  the 4090 will become the main boot node then..  > H > the tape drive will be hanging off a vaxstations 3100 m38, I have thatF > compaq 20/40 avail, will soon have a dlt (dec model, too, exact type/ > unknown, still in nt box) avail that's 15/30. 8 > I'm leaning to the dat since tapes are cheaper, etc... > J > we're stuck at 5.5-2 for reasons of workload, old version of Ingres, andH > all new work is being done on newer boxes now...  However, due to someJ > tools (teco) i still use this box for some development in perl/cgi whileF > I'm learning vim...  no editor/os wars, now please guys and gals and > aliens????  H Whatever tape drive you use, be aware that the VS3100m38's SCSI port hasE a maximum throughput of about 1MB/sec.  If your tape drive requires a E higher throughput rate, you will shoe-shine.  (Run the tapes back and ) forth, polishing the heads.  Think TU80.)   G If the disk drive is also on the VS3100m38, you will not get 1MB/sec to  the tape drive.   H However, if the disk drive is not on the VS3100m38, you are getting yourC data over the Ethernet, which also limits you to less than 1MB/sec.   F The VS4000m60 and m90 have much better throughput on the SCSI port andG would make better choices for hosting the tape.  If the m90 will become @ the main boot node, I assume that the disks will also be on thisE machine.  Then this would become the ideal choice for the tape drive.   H FWIW: I have a 4000m90 running VMS V5.5-2 with a HP 35480A (DDS-1) and a8 Seagate 4586 (DDS-2) DAT drives.  Everything works fine.  G ----------------------------------------------------------------------- $ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  C Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com     Fax: 817-237-3074    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 09:51:47 -0500! From: VAXVMS <bounce@notmail.com>  Subject: Re: Athens OlympicsK Message-ID: <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E4903027BCF@rlghncst964.usps.gov>    jfmezei asked: > J >I remember hearing some blurb about IBM not wanting to continue to be the. >"official supplier of" Olympics after Sydney. > J >Does anyone know more about this ? Would HP have gotten the contract ? If so, K >now that HP has inherited Digital, would there be any chances of Alpha/VMS F >being used by HP to run the olynpics, or would that be just HP-UX and wintel >crap ?   I I recall hearing horror stories about severe problems they had with their  setup K at the Summer Olympics in 1996 (Atlanta), but I can't remember how much was  said   in print or online.    ========================  William W. Webb - EMS Operations) OpenVMS Systems Support - USPS DSSC Annex , 4730 Hargrove Road, Raleigh, NC 27616-2874  > 919.325.7500 x4186  <FirstInitialLastNameAtEmailDotUSPSDotGov>   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 12:28:35 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> Subject: Re: Athens Olympics/ Message-ID: <3E64D432.B8306BB6@vl.videotron.ca>   
 VAXVMS wrote: K > I recall hearing horror stories about severe problems they had with their  > setup M > at the Summer Olympics in 1996 (Atlanta), but I can't remember how much was  > said > in print or online.   M The media outide the USA didn't spare the Atlanta organisers for the computer I problems. Inaccurate results, missing results etc etc. And IBM's web site H which had been so widely advertised was ground to a halt. IBM had groslyK misjudged the amount of horsepower and and also underestimated the scale of H the olympics (the expected someone to type in all the results instead ofE building an interface to the real systems that recorded the results).   L There were doubts for Sydney 2000, but IBM had learned its lesson and seemedM to do a fair job, but I remember IBM stating that they were not so interested L in continuing (eg: the risks of the bad publicity should a server go down is) too great, as they learned from Atlanta).    ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 10:42:40 -0800 (PST). From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> Subject: Re: Athens Olympics@ Message-ID: <20030304184240.66472.qmail@web20209.mail.yahoo.com>  7 Is there any Specialized Product running under OpenVMS  % to be used in sports competition ????    Regards    FC  5 --- JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote:  > VAXVMS wrote: M > > I recall hearing horror stories about severe problems they had with their 	 > > setup O > > at the Summer Olympics in 1996 (Atlanta), but I can't remember how much was  > > said > > in print or online.  > O > The media outide the USA didn't spare the Atlanta organisers for the computer K > problems. Inaccurate results, missing results etc etc. And IBM's web site J > which had been so widely advertised was ground to a halt. IBM had groslyM > misjudged the amount of horsepower and and also underestimated the scale of J > the olympics (the expected someone to type in all the results instead ofG > building an interface to the real systems that recorded the results).  > N > There were doubts for Sydney 2000, but IBM had learned its lesson and seemedO > to do a fair job, but I remember IBM stating that they were not so interested N > in continuing (eg: the risks of the bad publicity should a server go down is+ > too great, as they learned from Atlanta).      =====  ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazil  fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!?2 Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 17:42:29 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> # Subject: Behind the struggle for HP H Message-ID: <9A59a.45381$em1.34985@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  0 http://news.com.com/2008-1082-990861.html?tag=lh   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Mar 2003 04:49:49 -0800 - From: tail_feather@hotmail.com (Tail Feather) ; Subject: Re: Bill Gates says you "get what you pay for" ... = Message-ID: <5d50f18b.0303040449.58414a01@posting.google.com>   > > True!  And what about "who do you turn to when it is broke?"  6 In the case of Windows, it's not Microsoft's problem. ( From the Windows 2000 Professional EULA:  E 7.   PRODUCT SUPPORT. PRODUCT SUPPORT FOR THE SOFTWARE PRODUCT IS NOT = PROVIDED BY MS, MICROSOFT CORPORATION, OR THEIR AFFILIATES OR 
 SUBSIDIARIES.    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Mar 2003 04:50:18 -0800 - From: tail_feather@hotmail.com (Tail Feather) ; Subject: Re: Bill Gates says you "get what you pay for" ... = Message-ID: <5d50f18b.0303040450.21a4725c@posting.google.com>   4 In the case of Windows (from the Windows 2000 EULA):  E 7.   PRODUCT SUPPORT. PRODUCT SUPPORT FOR THE SOFTWARE PRODUCT IS NOT = PROVIDED BY MS, MICROSOFT CORPORATION, OR THEIR AFFILIATES OR 
 SUBSIDIARIES.    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Mar 2003 10:06:15 -0500 & From: fdc@columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Subject: Re: C-Kermit 8.0.208 1 Message-ID: <b42fd7$md4$1@watsol.cc.columbia.edu>   / In article <3E63DF26.AA4C2261@vl.videotron.ca>, 2 JF Mezei  <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote: : Frank da Cruz wrote:B : > with SSL/TLS security.  Of course we can't put secure binariesA : > online for FTP due to USA export law, so I'm only looking for . : > regular binaries, built in the normal way. : O : Didn't the USA export restrictions get lifted sometime towards the end of the  : Clinton administration ? : G Eased but not lifted.  This is why we are allowed to put the source out J in the open, but not the binaries.  Previously we couldn't put the sources
 up either.   - Frank    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 10:52:56 -0500 ! From: Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu>  Subject: Re: C-Kermit 8.0.208 ' Message-ID: <3E64CBD8.86253203@vcu.edu>   9 interesting.. what the heck is the difference...????  ;-D   , shining example of government intelligence??   jim    Frank da Cruz wrote: > 1 > In article <3E63DF26.AA4C2261@vl.videotron.ca>, 4 > JF Mezei  <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote: > : Frank da Cruz wrote:D > : > with SSL/TLS security.  Of course we can't put secure binariesC > : > online for FTP due to USA export law, so I'm only looking for 0 > : > regular binaries, built in the normal way. > : Q > : Didn't the USA export restrictions get lifted sometime towards the end of the  > : Clinton administration ? > : I > Eased but not lifted.  This is why we are allowed to put the source out L > in the open, but not the binaries.  Previously we couldn't put the sources > up either. > 	 > - Frank    --  F "4,000 years ago I made a mistake."  Elrond Half-Elven, in "Fellowship of the Ring"   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 12:30:43 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> Subject: Re: C-Kermit 8.0.208 / Message-ID: <3E64D4B1.1E5A5CC3@vl.videotron.ca>    Frank da Cruz wrote:I > Eased but not lifted.  This is why we are allowed to put the source out L > in the open, but not the binaries.  Previously we couldn't put the sources > up either.  B Wow, talk about politicians really being so clueless. What sort ofL justification was given for not distributing binaries, but allowing source ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 09:34:38 -0500 ! From: Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu> ? Subject: Re: Editor wars - Was: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ? ' Message-ID: <3E64B97E.423E5E88@vcu.edu>   # Shane, would TED for dos do???  ;-)    Shane Smith wrote: > G > VI was still a mess last time I was forced to use it (and I /do/ mean 
 > forced). > H > I am a TPU user who respects EDT, and even uses it occasionally. But IH > still have a soft spot for something called TED on a PDP-11 in the midG > 80s. It was a pure line editor, and could only go one way through the G > file, down. If you went past the line you wanted, you had to exit and G > start again. You /couldn't/ forget to save occasionally. :-) See? You ( > can find something good in any editor. >  > Shane  >  > -----Original Message-----9 > From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca] & > Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 1:32 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com A > Subject: Re: Editor wars - Was: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?  >  > Elliott Roper wrote:L > >> The *other* user of teco rather enjoys your posts, but *is* offended byJ > > this comparison. vi shares some less than charming idiosyncrasies with > > EVE, > E > Didn't mean to insult you., My image of TECO is some strange set of  > singleE > keystrokes that produce marvelous results when you know what you're  > doing, or I > totally random results when you don't, and this remonded me of vi which  > isn't G > really a full screen editor since you constantly have to tell it when 
 > you wantC > to change text. (unless vi changed since I last tried to use it).    --  F "4,000 years ago I made a mistake."  Elrond Half-Elven, in "Fellowship of the Ring"   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 09:57:06 -0500- From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> ? Subject: Re: Editor wars - Was: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ? 6 Message-ID: <b42es9$1rf5vt$1@ID-141708.news.dfncis.de>   Alan E. Feldman wrote: >...H > I'm sorry, but I still see no point to this "found in other direction"B > routine. The case you just mentioned is the only one in which it >...  D OK, try this one. Watch for line-wraps, but if you paste it into theF same file I sent you before and follow the same instructions it should work.     - procedure eve$find_target ! Find subprocedure        (how_exact,       replacing,       move_flag;       old_find)  H ! Search for eve$x_target in the current direction.  If not found in theA ! current direction look in the opposite direction, but do not go F ! there without prompting the user. (Looking in the opposite direction ! removed 4-MAR-2003) ? ! Returns range if eve$x_target found, otherwise returns false.  ! 
 ! Parameters: O !       how_exact               eve$x_find_exact or eve$x_find_no_exact - input B !       replacing               1 = called by eve_replace: allow aH !                                   match at current cursor position and= !                                   return if no string found ; !                               2 = called by wildcard_find > !                               0 = called by eve_find - input< !       move_flag               1 = position to found stringJ !                               0 = don't position to found string - inputG !       old_find                1 = called by eve$find - optional input   D local   saved_mark,             ! Marker for current cursor positionB         text_mark,              ! Marker for current text position@         other_direction,        ! Keyword for opposite direction:         find_range,             ! Range returned by search8         status,                 ! Result of set (widget)J         leading_whitespace,     ! Boolean for including leading whitespaceE         the_prompt,             ! Prompt for going in other direction K         find_reply,             ! Reply to inquiry about changing direction H         change_direction_key,   ! Keyword for key used to end find_reply6         saved_direction;        ! Direction upon entry   on_error     [TPU$_CONTROLC]:5         if (saved_direction <> current_direction) and :             (get_info (saved_direction, "type") = KEYWORD)         then2             set (saved_direction, current_buffer);         endif;+         eve$$restore_position (saved_mark);          eve$learn_abort;         abort;     [OTHERWISE]:5         if (saved_direction <> current_direction) and :             (get_info (saved_direction, "type") = KEYWORD)         then2             set (saved_direction, current_buffer);         endif;+         eve$$restore_position (saved_mark);  endon_error;  % saved_direction := current_direction; @ saved_mark := mark (FREE_CURSOR);       ! mark original position- position (TEXT);        ! snap cursor to text  text_mark := mark (NONE);    if current_direction = FORWARD then,     if saved_mark <> end_of (current_buffer)     thenC         find_range := eve$search (eve$x_target, FORWARD, how_exact, 4                                   eve$$x_state_array>                                   {eve$$k_leading_whitespace},-                                   replacing);      else         find_range := 0;
     endif; else2     if saved_mark <> beginning_of (current_buffer)     thenC         find_range := eve$search (eve$x_target, REVERSE, how_exact, 4                                   eve$$x_state_array>                                   {eve$$k_leading_whitespace},-                                   replacing);      else         find_range := 0;
     endif; endif;  C if find_range = 0               ! didn't find in original direction  then     if replacing = 1     then         position (saved_mark);         return (FALSE);      elseL         if learn_abort          ! Don't look in opposite dir if in LEARN SEQ         then(             eve$message (EVE$_FINDFAIL);-             eve$message (EVE$_LEARNABORTBIG); "             position (saved_mark);             return (FALSE);          endif;< !       if current_direction = FORWARD  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003" !       then  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003= !           other_direction := REVERSE;  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003 " !       else  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003= !           other_direction := FORWARD;  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003 $ !       endif;  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003P !       position (text_mark);                   ! go back to original text  ! R3P !       if other_direction = FORWARD            ! and look in other direction  3" !       then  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003J !           if saved_mark <> end_of (current_buffer)  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003& !           then  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003P !               find_range := eve$search (eve$x_target, FORWARD, how_exact,  ! 3P !                                         eve$$x_state_array  ! Removed 4-MAR-23P !                                         {eve$$k_leading_whitespace},  ! Remov3K !                                         replacing);  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003 & !           else  ! Removed 4-MAR-20036 !               find_range := 0;  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003( !           endif;  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003" !       else  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003P !           if saved_mark <> beginning_of (current_buffer)  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003& !           then  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003P !               find_range := eve$search (eve$x_target, REVERSE, how_exact,  ! 3P !                                         eve$$x_state_array  ! Removed 4-MAR-23P !                                         {eve$$k_leading_whitespace},  ! Remov3K !                                         replacing);  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003 & !           else  ! Removed 4-MAR-20036 !               find_range := 0;  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003( !           endif;  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003$ !       endif;  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003 !  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003 / !       if find_range = 0  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003 P !       then            ! couldn't find in other direction either - give up  ! 3M !           if get_info (eve$x_target, "type") = STRING  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003 & !           then  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003P !               eve$message (EVE$_STRNOTFOUND, 0, eve$x_target);  ! Removed 4-M3& !           else  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003P !               eve$message (EVE$_STRNOTFOUND, 0, eve$x_printable_target);  ! R3( !           endif;  ! Removed 4-MAR-20038 !           position (saved_mark);  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003- !           return (0);  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003 " !       else  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003> !           if other_direction = FORWARD  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003P !           then                        ! found in other direction, go there?  3P !               the_prompt := message_text (EVE$_FOUNDFORWARD, 1);  ! Removed 43& !           else  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003P !               the_prompt := message_text (EVE$_FOUNDREVERSE, 1);  ! Removed 43( !           endif;  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003 !  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003 P !           if (eve$$x_state_array {eve$$k_command_line_flag} =  ! Removed 4-MA3@ !               eve$k_invoked_by_menu) and  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003P !               (eve$$x_state_array {eve$$k_dialog_box})  ! user hasn't disable3& !           then  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003P !               ! supersede the program bound to the find_occurrence_yes button3P !               ! (cant call eve$find_target, because many procedures call  ! R38 !               ! eve$find_target)  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003 !  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003 2 !%if eve$x_option_decwindows  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003 !%then  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003@ !               if eve$x_decwindows_active  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003* !               then  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003I !                   if old_find = tpu$k_unspecified  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003 . !                   then  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003@ !                       eve$$set_responder  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003H !                           (eve$$k_find_each_yes,  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003P !                            fao ("eve$$widget_find_each_yes (!UL, !UL, !UL)", 3M !                                 replacing, move_flag,  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003 P !                                 (other_direction = FORWARD)));  ! Removed 4-M3. !                   else  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003@ !                       eve$$set_responder  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003H !                           (eve$$k_find_each_yes,  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003P !                            fao ("eve$$widget_find_each_yes " +  ! Removed 4-M3O !                                 "(!UL, !UL, !UL, !UL)",  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003 M !                                 replacing, move_flag,  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003 P !                                 (other_direction = FORWARD), old_find));  ! R30 !                   endif;  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003P !                   if get_info (eve$x_find_each_dialog, "type") <> WIDGET  ! R3. !                   then  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003P !                       eve$x_find_each_dialog := eve$create_widget  ! Removed 3P !                                                 ("FIND_EACH_DIALOG");  ! Remo30 !                   endif;  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003@ !                   status := set (WIDGET,  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003P !                                  get_info (WIDGET, "widget_id",  ! Removed 4-3P !                                            eve$x_find_each_dialog,  ! Removed3P !                                            "FIND_EACH_DIALOG.FIND_EACH_LABEL"3: !                                  ,  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003P !                                  eve$x_resource_array {eve$k_nlabel},  ! Remo3E !                                  the_prompt);  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003 P !                   eve$manage_widget (eve$x_find_each_dialog);  ! Removed 4-MA3, !               endif;  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003 !%endif  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003 E !               return (eve$k_async_prompting);  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003 & !           else  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003P !               find_reply := eve$prompt_line (the_prompt,  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003P !                                              eve$$x_prompt_terminators,  ! Re3I !                                              "");  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003 7 !               if find_reply = 0  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003 * !               then  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003@ !                   position (saved_mark);  ! Removed 4-MAR-20039 !                   return (FALSE);  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003 , !               endif;  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003 !  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003 P !               ! Hitting return or do means yes; hitting another non-typing  !3P !               ! key is probably a mistake, so interpret as no.  ! Removed 4-M3 !  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003 8 !               if find_reply = ""  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003* !               then  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003P !                   change_direction_key := eve$$lookup_comment (last_key,  ! R3P !                                                                "");  ! Remove3P !                   if (eve$test_synonym ("return", change_direction_key)) or  3P !                       (eve$test_synonym ("do", change_direction_key))  ! Remo3. !                   then  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003F !                       find_reply := eve$x_yes;  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003. !                   else  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003E !                       find_reply := eve$x_no;  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003 0 !                   endif;  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003* !               else  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003N !                   edit (find_reply, TRIM, LOWER, OFF);  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003, !               endif;  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003 !  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003 P !               if substr (eve$x_yes, 1, length (find_reply)) = find_reply  ! R3* !               then  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003P !                   set (other_direction, current_buffer);  ! Removed 4-MAR-20036 !                   if move_flag  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003. !                   then  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003P !                       eve$position_in_middle (beginning_of (find_range));  ! 30 !                   endif;  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003> !                   return (find_range);  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003* !               else  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003@ !                   position (saved_mark);  ! Removed 4-MAR-20035 !                   return (0);  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003 , !               endif;  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003( !           endif;  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003$ !       endif;  ! Removed 4-MAR-2003
     endif; else %if eve$x_option_decwindows  %then      if eve$x_decwindows_active     then1         eve$$set_responder (eve$$k_find_each_yes, 2                             "eve$invalid_event(" +>                             str (eve$$k_find_each_yes) + ")");
     endif; %endif     if move_flag     then;         eve$position_in_middle (beginning_of (find_range)); 
     endif;     return (find_range); endif;   endprocedure; ! eve$find_target    -- Peter WeaverD Opinions are my own, and do not reflect the opinions of my employer,A nor the company that it sub-contracts to, nor the company that it  sub-contracts to.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 09:37:07 -0500 ! From: Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu> ? Subject: Re: Editor wars - Was: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ? ' Message-ID: <3E64BA13.9C0B0789@vcu.edu>   H i almost went there, practiced vi on a dos laptop while reading o'reilly- in a playhouse type place while babysitting..    talk about self-torture...     and rotten coffee..    jim      Shane Smith wrote: > H > NO!!! DON'T DO IT! >>>bullhorn-crackle<<< Mr. Dachtera, step away from > the machine! > C > If you do do it, don't expect us to clean up the drool or buy the  > straightjacket.  >  > Shane  >  > -----Original Message-----8 > From: David J. Dachtera [mailto:djesys.nospam@fsi.net]& > Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 6:19 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com A > Subject: Re: Editor wars - Was: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?  >  > Shane Smith wrote: > > I > > VI was still a mess last time I was forced to use it (and I /do/ mean  > > forced). > H > True. I found myself on a UNIX box in 1986 when I'd been on IAS (TECO)E > for 18 months and RSTS/E and VMS (EDT) for just shy of three years.  > F > I managed to make vi as EDT-like as I could, but lost the .exrc fileD > when I changed jobs (to a VMS/All-in-1 shop). Could probably do it > again, I s'pose... >  > -- > David J. Dachtera  > dba DJE Systems  > http://www.djesys.com/ > * > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    --  F "4,000 years ago I made a mistake."  Elrond Half-Elven, in "Fellowship of the Ring"   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Mar 2003 09:54:18 -0800 . From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)? Subject: Re: Editor wars - Was: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ? = Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0303040954.2dd3a45f@posting.google.com>   } clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) wrote in message news:<LkjAHws2dYKe@eisner.encompasserve.org>... p > In article <b096a4ee.0303030923.29881ee5@posting.google.com>, spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes: > >  > % > First of all, my position up front:  > L > I started on RSTS/E with EDT about 16 years ago. About a decade ago, afterL > starting to write code for. and also to manage, my first Vax, I tried EVE.H > After one about day of use, I switched full time to EVE, as it was far2 > superior __for my needs__ (more of which below).   OK.     > Now my comments: > N > People should choose the editor that best suits the task at hand and/or thatN > person's style of working. For you that appears to be EDT, for me that's EVEA > (with an increasing preference for EMACS where it's available).  > I > [deleted your long list of what you don't like about EVE. Most of these I > have never been issues for _me_, which only shows that different people $ > use editors for different things.] > E > > I'm sure there's more, so don't consider this an exhaustive list.  > > H > > There are very few annoyances in EDT and I can easily customize them > > away (and have, mostly). > >  > J > Would it be fair to say that there are very few annoyances in EDT, __for/ > the things that _you_ want to use EDT for ?__   @ Well, yes. But, EDT doesn't annoy me when I want to search for aA string. It doesn't annoy me when I go to the top or bottom of the D buffer. It doesn't annoy me when I open a new file, or a large file.E Are these not things that most people want to do (except possibly the B large file)? With EVE, do you like waiting for minutes for a largeF file to load and possibly fill the pagefile? Do you like the "Found inE other direction" question? Do you like having to wait for a second or C two for the display to settle down when you reach either end of the # buffer, wondering what is going on?   E Things like this interrupt my train of thought. With EDT, there is no ? delay. I just think, press keys, and these things happen nearly E instantaneously. And there are no wasted keystrokes. With EVE it is a ; constant stream of interruptions and extra keystrokes. Yes, C individually they are small, but they add up and my editing becomes ? inefficient because I am continually distracted. I think better $ without these endless interruptions.  F Also, the few things about EDT that did annoy me were easy to fix. Not so with EVE.  I > One thing that I am interested in knowing is are you using EDT to write H > code or are you using it to edit command procedures and data records ?  - What, DCL command procedures aren't code? :-)   E I write DCL, edit data files, log files, configuration files. I can't  think of any others right now.  2 > The 2 major reasons that I switched to EVE were: > < > 1) the ability to have more than 24 lines on a screen, and   I like this one.    M > 2) the ability to have more than one buffer on the screen at the same time.   C I rarely need this. But people who like this should also like or at E least understand the value of SET NOTRUNCATE as it allows you to look E at different parts of a long line at the same time (you might have to : vary the screen width). And this allows me to make a great
 comparison!!!   ; EVE fan: You can have multiple buffers in multiple windows!   4 EDT fan: Well, in EDT you can have multiple buffers.  D EVE fan: Yes, but in EDT you can only look at one of them at a time.  B EDT fan: Yes, but in EVE you can only see part of a long line at aC time because all you have is SHIFT LEFT and SHIFT RIGHT. I have SET - NOTRUNCATE! I can see the whole line at once!   A Hopefully this makes it clear for people who don't understand the  value of SET NOTRUNCATE.  B (Yes, there was the comment about using EVE on DECwindows for longD records, but then you still can't have fields that are far from eachC other in the records appear close to each other on the screen while ? you press *only* page down to scroll through the records. Also, E setting up DECwindows does not appear to be a worthwhile endeavor for  me.)  G > I primarily write code, and the inability to do these 2 things in EDT J > would be a _major_ annoyance for me, were I forced to use EDT these days > to write code.  B Fine. If you want to use EVE for normal day-to-day editing, that's
 fine with me.   M > OTOH, if you are editing long data records, I can see how the ability to do I > SET NOTRUNCATE would be much more important than the ability to display K > header files and specifications on the screen while you are writing code.   ! Yes, this is a very cool feature.   H > > Every time I fire up EVE when I could have used EDT I find somethingG > > stupid happens and I have to spend extra time to fix it. And then I E > > realize, "Hey, if I had used EDT, I would have been done sooner."  > L > As above: for some things, EDT is better. For other things, EVE is better.  ' Different strokes for different folks.    F > > Also, my 262-line EDT init file boils down to only 84 lines of EDTB > > line mode code and none of it is some crazy program written toI > > eliminate or make tolerable some annoying thing. (See my other post.)  > E > Annoying for you, and the things that you would like to do with it. H > Not necessarily annoying for other people with different requirements.   I never said otherwise.    > Simon.   Disclaimer: JMNSHO Alan E. Feldman    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Mar 2003 10:35:09 -0800 . From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)? Subject: Re: Editor wars - Was: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ? = Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0303041035.3d720b32@posting.google.com>   k "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> wrote in message news:<b42es9$1rf5vt$1@ID-141708.news.dfncis.de>...  > Alan E. Feldman wrote: > >...J > > I'm sorry, but I still see no point to this "found in other direction"D > > routine. The case you just mentioned is the only one in which it > >... > F > OK, try this one. Watch for line-wraps, but if you paste it into theH > same file I sent you before and follow the same instructions it should > work.  >  > / > procedure eve$find_target ! Find subprocedure  >  >     (how_exact, % [ ... most of precedure omitted ... ]  > endif; > ! > endprocedure; ! eve$find_target   R I tried it using EDIT/TPU/COMMAND=EVE$FIND_TARGET.TPU and it worked! Thanks again!   Alan E. Feldman    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Mar 2003 12:42:24 -0600 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ? Subject: Re: Editor wars - Was: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ? 3 Message-ID: <KiI+zEhrP1P5@eisner.encompasserve.org>   n In article <b096a4ee.0303030923.29881ee5@posting.google.com>, spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes:i > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3E62EB3C.88D52209@vl.videotron.ca>...  > D > Obviously, you haven't read any of my posts in their entirety. TheH > problem with EVE is that it has too many annoying things that can't be > customized away.  
    OK, so:  F    The problem with EVE is that it's not always the right tool for the    job.   F    The problem with EDT is that it's not always the right tool for the    job.   G    The problem with TECO is that it's not always the right tool for the     job.       ...  E    So why not use the right tools for the job?  I use EVE, EDT, TECO, >    SUM, ... as needed when each is the right tool for the job.  G    Why know more that one?  Knowledge is power, even if it's how to use     vi.          ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 10:40:43 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> 7 Subject: Re: EDT and command tables have invalid format ; Message-ID: <01KT4GDN06S69FQH4P@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>    > :...I often SPAWN out of  K > :EDT while in MAIL (there are several separate reasons I do this, and it  A > :is also handy when one has only one session available).  What  . > :specifically annoys me is the error message > : < > :   command tables have invalid format - see documentation > : < > :(that's right, no %DCL-E-TBLINV or whatever as a prefix). > J >   The error is "%CLI-E-INVTAB, command tables have invalid format - see G >   documentation", and this implies some sort of a CLI corruption, and G >   some sort of a bug with a call to CLI$DCL_PARSE or other such call.   F I was just guessing what the FSE should be based on the text---pretty  good, eh?!  :-)   : > :DEFINE KEY FUNCTION 29 AS "XLATESPAWN ?*'SPAWN '^ZREF." > G >   I'm not particularly familiar with that EDT command syntax, and EDT G >   has not seen particular work in eons.  You've defined the DO key to H >   some sort of SPAWN, obviously.  (I can't replicate the SPAWN error.)  F This example I lifted, years ago, pretty much verbatim out of the EDT  manual (VMS 5.5, probably).     ! >   OpenVMS platform and version?   G I have used it on VMS between 5.5 and 7.3 (OK, no 6.x releases) on lots G of different machines from a VAXstation 3100 M38 to an AlphaServer ES45 D Model 2. In all cases, the error above does not occur if MAIL/OLD isD used instead of MAIL, hence my suspicion that the bug to the call to4 CLI$DCL_PARSE was introduced with the MAIL rewrite.    ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 10:48:58 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> 7 Subject: Re: EDT and command tables have invalid format ; Message-ID: <01KT4GQNZYJG9FQH4P@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   I > >   I'm not particularly familiar with that EDT command syntax, and EDT I > >   has not seen particular work in eons.  You've defined the DO key to J > >   some sort of SPAWN, obviously.  (I can't replicate the SPAWN error.) > > : >   Whoa, don't get into an argument with Alan Feldman :-)  E I once had a list of the few things which I felt were missing in EDT   compared to TPU:      o  SPAWN   -    o  save the current file one is working on   2    o  support for lines longer than 255 characters      o  LEARN   A LEARN might be possible with ^K.  I use this rarely so I haven't   investigated it much.   ; Long lines---still a problem, but not one I encounter much.   H SPAWN: I found that how to do it is in the EDT manual (the XLATE stuff).  G Save the current file: use the procedure below (E is a symbol EDIT/EDT   etc).   ! $  DEFINE/USER_MODE EDT_FILE 'P1' 6 $  JOURNAL = F$EXTRACT(0,F$LOCATE(".",P1),P1) + ".JOU"  $  IF F$SEARCH(JOURNAL) .EQS. "" $  THEN ) $  DEFINE/USER_MODE SYS$INPUT SYS$COMMAND  $    E 'P1'  $  ELSE ) $  DEFINE/USER_MODE SYS$INPUT SYS$COMMAND  $    E/RECOVER 'P1'  $  ENDIF $  EXIT    Then in EDTINI.EDT:   * DEFINE KEY GOLD W AS "EXT WRITE EDT_FILE."  . Some new problems I have encountered with EDT:  C It cannot edit, even in read-only mode, a file currently locked by  E another user.  (Workaround: check this error status in the procedure  H above and then BACK/IGN=INTERLOCK to a temporary file and EDIT/READ_ONLYH this temporary file.)  It locks the file for the whole session, and not  only when writing it to disk.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 11:14:14 -0500 ' From: Chris Olive <nospam@raytheon.com> 7 Subject: Re: EDT and command tables have invalid format ; Message-ID: <vi49a.77$35.234@dfw-service2.ext.raytheon.com>    Phillip Helbig wrote: H >>>  I'm not particularly familiar with that EDT command syntax, and EDTH >>>  has not seen particular work in eons.  You've defined the DO key toI >>>  some sort of SPAWN, obviously.  (I can't replicate the SPAWN error.)  >>>  >>: >>  Whoa, don't get into an argument with Alan Feldman :-) >  > G > I once had a list of the few things which I felt were missing in EDT   > compared to TPU: > 
 >    o  SPAWN  > / >    o  save the current file one is working on  > 4 >    o  support for lines longer than 255 characters > 
 >    o  LEARN  >  > [snip]  I There were/are tons of things/extensions/enhancements that could be done  ! with the EDT$EDIT call and XLATE.   H Sometime back in 1993, I wrote a package called EDTPLUS that did SPAWN, F ATTACH (so you could run EDT in a sub-process), toggle on/off SYSPRV, F toggle on/off one's PCB NODELETE flag, and several other enhancements I related to the file(s) being edited (by RMS calls: insert CDT, RDT, file  G attributes as text, etc).  It allowed me to hang on to EDT for a while  F longer.  I finally succumbed to using TPU over the screen size (never E could trick EDT into setting it's screen/buffer size to the terminal  F size on terminals > 24 lines -- may be able to now, but that was 1993  and I couldn't then.)   G I never released EDTPLUS into the public domain because TPU had pretty  D much supplanted EDT as the de facto editing standard on VMS by that H time, but EDTPLUS was really nice to have (and I still have it though I D don't use it any longer.)  Nick de Smith released something similar C called ATG_EDT (avail. on Hunter Goatley's FILESERV), but I really  E thought EDTPLUS was better and had more features than ATG_EDT.  (And  H there aren't many things I've written that I would say were better than G Nick's.  And Nick doesn't frequent c.o.v any more, so he's not here to   defend himself... 8->)  @ Anyway, the point being EDT$EDIT and XLATE really gave EDT some : additional mileage and could do some pretty serious stuff.   Chris   D P.S. EDT also reads from mailboxes (sees them as files) whereas TPU F seemingly will not.  There quite a few little tricks you can use THAT . for as well in EDT using EDT$EDIT and XLATE... -----  Chris Olive  Systems Consultant' Raytheon Technical Services Corporation  Indianapolis, IN  * email: olivec(AT)indy(DOT)raytheon(DOT)com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 19:12:56 +1000 1 From: Paddy O'Brien <paddy.o'brien@tg.nsw.gov.au> Y Subject: Re: EDT and command tables have invalid format (was: Re: What makes the VMS port , Message-ID: <3E646E18.2070607@tg.nsw.gov.au>   Hoff Hoffman wrote:  [snips]   G >   I'm not particularly familiar with that EDT command syntax, and EDT G >   has not seen particular work in eons.  You've defined the DO key to H >   some sort of SPAWN, obviously.  (I can't replicate the SPAWN error.) > 8   Whoa, don't get into an argument with Alan Feldman :-)       Regards, Paddy        G ***********************************************************************   C "This electronic message and any attachments may contain privileged > and confidential information intended only for the use of the B addressees named above.  If you are not the intended recipient of C this email, please delete the message and any attachment and advise B the sender.  You are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, 7 distribution, reproduction of this email is prohibited.   A If you have received the email in error, please notify TransGrid  A immediately.  Any views expressed in this email are those of the  = individual sender except where the sender expressly and with  C authority states them to be the views of TransGrid.  TransGrid uses > virus scanning software but excludes any liability for viruses contained in any attachment.  < Please note the email address for TransGrid personnel is now$ firstname.lastname@transgrid.com.au"  G ***********************************************************************    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Mar 2003 10:45:25 -0800 " From: ccc_crg@yahoo.com (Chris G.)+ Subject: hobbiest RDB/Sql*Services security = Message-ID: <5437ff2f.0303041045.459e1fea@posting.google.com>   B I've just completed installing RDB and Sql/Services on my hobbiestE Alpha. Sql/Services appears to be running on a couple of IP ports but % UCX SHOW SERVICES does not list them.   A I only want SQL/Services to accept connections from the localhost - 127.0.0.1.  IS there an equivalent of UCX SET  SERVICE/ACCEPT=HOST=127.0.0.1?   many thanks! - ChrisG    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Mar 2003 14:22:27 GMT - From: djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall) ' Subject: Re: I'll be on British soil... 5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-dcd6fTx9rKFu@localhost>   D On Mon, 3 Mar 2003 17:51:16 UTC,   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:  : > Another year and another trip "over the pond" to the UK. > J > I'll be in London 8,9,10 of March.  I'd like to put faces with the namesI > I see here on c.o.v., so if you'll be in London on these days and would J > like to meet, let me know (private email).  I tried to connect with sev-J > eral people last year but the telephone tag game didn't play well.  I'llK > be in various places in Southern England 11,12,13 March and I'll be stay- : > ing at the lovely Butlins in Minehead 14,15,16 of March.  E Sound like you'll be ariving as I return to Munich. Have a good time  F Brian. Butlins though :-) As as kid, I used to dream about being 'richE enough' to go on holiday to Butlins. My friend nextdoor did  - I was  
 very envious.    --   Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 14:54:07 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG' Subject: Re: I'll be on British soil... 0 Message-ID: <00A1C5BC.7605D641@SendSpamHere.ORG>  e In article <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-dcd6fTx9rKFu@localhost>, djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall) writes: E >On Mon, 3 Mar 2003 17:51:16 UTC,   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:  > ; >> Another year and another trip "over the pond" to the UK.  >>  K >> I'll be in London 8,9,10 of March.  I'd like to put faces with the names J >> I see here on c.o.v., so if you'll be in London on these days and wouldK >> like to meet, let me know (private email).  I tried to connect with sev- K >> eral people last year but the telephone tag game didn't play well.  I'll L >> be in various places in Southern England 11,12,13 March and I'll be stay-; >> ing at the lovely Butlins in Minehead 14,15,16 of March.  > F >Sound like you'll be ariving as I return to Munich. Have a good time G >Brian. Butlins though :-) As as kid, I used to dream about being 'rich F >enough' to go on holiday to Butlins. My friend nextdoor did  - I was  >very envious.  / You are being facetious, I hope, about Butlins?   K I'm there only because there is a band convention/concert being held there. 6 (www.marillionweekend.com if you're at all interested)  K Last years event was held at a Pontins.  The accomodations were just lovely K there -- picture the barracks in the movie Stalag 17 only with fewer bunks.    --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 17:02:13 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> ' Subject: Re: I'll be on British soil... H Message-ID: <p_49a.45246$em1.29469@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  , <VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in message* news:00A1C5BC.7605D641@SendSpamHere.ORG...7 > In article <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-dcd6fTx9rKFu@localhost>, / djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall) writes: @ > >On Mon, 3 Mar 2003 17:51:16 UTC,   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > > = > >> Another year and another trip "over the pond" to the UK.  > >>C > >> I'll be in London 8,9,10 of March.  I'd like to put faces with 	 the names F > >> I see here on c.o.v., so if you'll be in London on these days and would C > >> like to meet, let me know (private email).  I tried to connect 	 with sev- A > >> eral people last year but the telephone tag game didn't play  well.  I'll E > >> be in various places in Southern England 11,12,13 March and I'll  be stay-= > >> ing at the lovely Butlins in Minehead 14,15,16 of March.  > > B > >Sound like you'll be ariving as I return to Munich. Have a good timeC > >Brian. Butlins though :-) As as kid, I used to dream about being  'rich C > >enough' to go on holiday to Butlins. My friend nextdoor did  - I  was  > >very envious. > 1 > You are being facetious, I hope, about Butlins?  > F > I'm there only because there is a band convention/concert being held there.8 > (www.marillionweekend.com if you're at all interested) > F > Last years event was held at a Pontins.  The accomodations were just lovelyF > there -- picture the barracks in the movie Stalag 17 only with fewer bunks.  . That's why the brochures can call it 'quaint'.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 17:32:16 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG' Subject: Re: I'll be on British soil... 0 Message-ID: <00A1C5D2.8DAD428D@SendSpamHere.ORG>  n In article <p_49a.45246$em1.29469@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:
 >{...snip...}  > / >That's why the brochures can call it 'quaint'.    :)  L I sampled _your_ bitters (John Smith) last trip.  'Twas OK but I found many J other local bitters concoctions in pubs that I preferred over John Smith.  --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 10:53:20 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> 2 Subject: Re: I'm going to sleep so well tonight !!J Message-ID: <AA%8a.157683$Zr%.101235@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  + "Dirk Munk" <munk@home.nl> wrote in message , news:b40bcj$9e4$1@news4.tilbu1.nb.home.nl...D > Today I received a beautiful royal blue colored HP fleece blanket,	 specially   > sent to me by Rich Marcello !! > E > Ain't that nice of him ? He tells us that we can rest assured under  his blanket,@ >   and that we can retain trust in the Alpha. Well, he can rest assured too,8 > because I'm not likely to loose my trust in the Alpha.    E It's nice that you have a new blanket, and I'm sure it's a pretty one D too. It would be nicer if they sent some blankets with VMS logo's onE them to prospective *new* customers rather than just sending them out  to existing customers.  A Why only the continued 'preaching to the converted' by HP? What's   wrong with having new customers?    D If HP is so committed to the 'Retain Trust' concept, then why aren'tE they advertising Alphaserver to *new* customers? - after all, they'll C basically get a free IA-64 box in 2 years when they trade the Alpha F in. HP should be using this period of time to advertise and market theE fact that despite Alpha going away, they still have the fastest boxes B for many opportunities and their investment in VMS isn't lost when they migrate to IA-64.  D Or is it simply too tough a sell to tell new customers that not only5 will they have to swap boxes but that they'll have to F recompile/link/test/certify/support 2 environments for a while/deploy,' and that costs the customer real money.    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Mar 2003 06:29:49 -0600 B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)G Subject: Ideas for implementing fork() on VMS ?, was: Re: fork() on VMS 3 Message-ID: <980XbsCgtK0R@eisner.encompasserve.org>   q In article <cf15391e.0303031657.20e66c98@posting.google.com>, keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) writes:  > D > My apologies.  After looking into this more carefully, it appears:F > (1) The old VMS Integrated POSIX (VIP) product had a fork() functionF > that could fork a (constrained) VMS process (but that product's been! > unsupported for some years now) C > (2) The initial DII-COE releases (7.2-6Cn) don't have fork() (see 7 > http://openvms.compaq.com/solutions/government/coe/).  > ! > (1) was what I was thinking of.  > 4 > So this fork() is a future feature on the Roadmap.   Thanks for the feedback Keith.   Next question:  J Does anybody have _any_ ideas about how to implement fork() on current VMS+ versions, ignoring any performance issues ?    Simon.   --  B Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       L VMS advocate: One who makes a Mac advocate look like a beginner at advocacy.   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Mar 2003 07:36:15 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) K Subject: Re: Ideas for implementing fork() on VMS ?, was: Re: fork() on VMS 3 Message-ID: <9jtuiACVu4GB@eisner.encompasserve.org>   x In article <980XbsCgtK0R@eisner.encompasserve.org>, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) writes:s > In article <cf15391e.0303031657.20e66c98@posting.google.com>, keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) writes:  >>  E >> My apologies.  After looking into this more carefully, it appears: G >> (1) The old VMS Integrated POSIX (VIP) product had a fork() function G >> that could fork a (constrained) VMS process (but that product's been " >> unsupported for some years now)D >> (2) The initial DII-COE releases (7.2-6Cn) don't have fork() (see8 >> http://openvms.compaq.com/solutions/government/coe/). >>  " >> (1) was what I was thinking of. >>  5 >> So this fork() is a future feature on the Roadmap.  >   > Thanks for the feedback Keith. >  > Next question: > L > Does anybody have _any_ ideas about how to implement fork() on current VMS- > versions, ignoring any performance issues ?   C On current versions might not be possible.  In fact, before Itanium D was on the horizon I heard someone from VMS Development say that theG changes required for "fork" were sufficiently large to warrant changing  the version number to 8.0.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 04:19:07 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> Subject: Internet attacks / Message-ID: <3E64617A.EF89D3EB@vl.videotron.ca>   J had unusual alaram activity, checked my logs and saw one pretty determined fellow trying to get in.  L A few hundred FTP connect attempts. Breakin evasion had kicked in so even ifL he had found anything, the system wouldn't have allowed it. I often get portB scans coming from Korea, but this one was fairly local, in Qubec.  K For information of those who want to check the robustness of their systems, $ here are the usernames he attempted:  * Username:                 access          * Username:                 admin           * Username:                 administrato    * Username:                 anyone          * Username:                 backup          * Username:                 data            * Username:                 ftp             * Username:                 ftproot         * Username:                 oracle          * Username:                 oracle8         * Username:                 pwrchute        * Username:                 root            * Username:                 server          * Username:                 sybase          * Username:                 test            * Username:                 user            * Username:                 web             * Username:                 webmaster        Username:                 www    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 08:28:30 -0500 ' From: Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net>  Subject: Re: Internet attacks < Message-ID: <howard-218F45.08282904032003@enews.newsguy.com>  / In article <3E64617A.EF89D3EB@vl.videotron.ca>, 2  JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote:  L > had unusual alaram activity, checked my logs and saw one pretty determined > fellow trying to get in.   Did you trace him backwards?   --  4 Today, on Paper-view: The World Origami Championship   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Mar 2003 12:58:17 -0600 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: Internet attacks 3 Message-ID: <CQgUDujgZZEg@eisner.encompasserve.org>   b In article <3E64617A.EF89D3EB@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes: > , > Username:                 access          , > Username:                 admin           , > Username:                 administrato    , > Username:                 anyone          , > Username:                 backup          , > Username:                 data            , > Username:                 ftp             , > Username:                 ftproot         , > Username:                 oracle          , > Username:                 oracle8         , > Username:                 pwrchute        , > Username:                 root            , > Username:                 server          , > Username:                 sybase          , > Username:                 test            , > Username:                 user            , > Username:                 web             , > Username:                 webmaster        > Username:                 www   K    These look familiar.  We've got blocks at every level on an address for      doing this.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 16:12:12 +0000 ' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy 8 Subject: Re: Linus trashes Itanium - he's scared of VMS!. Message-ID: <3E64D05C.9010001@nospamn.sun.com>   Bill Todd wrote:0 > "Dan Allen" <dallen@nist.gov> wrote in message6 > news:JFEPKAPBPMDFDBOIANGDIEPICNAA.dallen@nist.gov... >  >> >>>-----Original Message----- * >>>From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy1 >>>[mailto:Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com] ( >>>Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 10:34 AM >>>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com; >>>Subject: Re: Linus trashes Itanium - he's scared of VMS!  >> >  > ...  >  > ; >>>Of course part of the cost differential is because Xeons 9 >>>cost Intel a lot less to build than IPF, with a 25% of " >>>the die size in a given process >> > J > Your credibility is thin enough in this forum already without the aid ofN > such blatantly erroneous statements.  Itanic2's chip area is 421 mm^2 in itsJ > 180 nm process, while P4's is 140 mm^2 in 130 nm and with only 512 KB ofM > cache vs. Itanic2's 3 MB.  That would put P4 over 200 mm^2 in Itanic2's 180 K > nm process, and close to 300 mm^2 in that process in a Xeon configuration L > with 2 MB cache - in other words, between 50% and 70% of Itanic2's area in > the same process.  >     C Humm according to chipgeek P4 is 131 mm^2 in 130 nanometer not 140.   5 And P4/Xeon have a 512K cache not 2 MB thats Xeon-MP. 2 Xeon-MP cache sizes are largely irrelevant because< the P4/Xeon with 512K cache outperforms Itanium 2 with 3 MB.  6 But you are right Xeon-MP has a 2 MB onchip cache with7 a total of 108 million transistors, 55 million of which 4 are the 2 MB cache. With more for the 512K L2 cache.  > However I wan't refering to Xeon-MP which is currently clocked( at 2 GHz not 2.8 or 3 as P4 or Xeon are.  < And anyway the discussion about relative cache sizes betweenA IPF and P4/Xeon are pretty irrelevant because they have differing + bus bandwidth/latencies and code densities.   1 IPF code density is arround half that of P4/Xeon.   0 Itanium 2 has a 6.4 GB/s 128 bit 400 MHz bus but: it wastes 30% of this bus bandwidth on average for SPECint8 because of discarded prefetches. Interesting because the; extensive use of feedback directed optimisation for SPECint < should reduce the wasted prefetches if so then the effective. rate for less micro type apps would be higher.  ; Xeon is in order and its 533 Mhz system bus has a bandwidth : of 4.3 GB/s giving it roughly the same effective bandwidth as IPF.   : Xeon also has a lower measured memory latency than IPF, 92; nanoseconds with the 533 MHz Bus when compared with Itanium : 2 and the ZX1 chipset which does 110 (both systems running# the lmbench on a Linux 2.4 kernel).   > These factors plus the code density issues make relative cache1 size discusions in largely academic in this case.   =  From a fabrication standpoint the amount of onchip cache and @ the number of transistors it consumes is less important than the= core and how it is laid out. Cache is denser than the rest of < the chip as any die photos will illustrate it also has lower defect rate.  ? Itanium 2's die area is ~65% core and 35% Cache with 75% of the = total metal route being core and 25% cache (with 3 MB cache).   @ Its the fabrication of the core which has the greatest influence& on the move to a newer faster process.  < The P4's are built using 12 inch wafers giving you about 470 dies per wafer.   @ Itanium 2 is built using 8 inch wafers which should give you ~70: per wafer or 15% of the P4/s per wafer. On top of that the> defect rate for Itanium is likely to be higher than P4 because# of the relatively larger core area.   B In the circumstances it isn't difficult to understand why P4/Xeons& will be rather cheaper than Itanium 2.  , I hope this corrects any missunderstandings.       regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 10:17:10 -0000- From: "Steve Spires" <Steve.Spires@torex.com> ) Subject: RE: MONITOR SYSTEM screen values E Message-ID: <91947A84607D9D48B8E674A5FAB54DA63CAE60@tahiti.tinuk.com>    Thanks to all respondents.  G Yes, it is the MONITOR SYSTEM screen, as denoted in the subject line of B the post. I do know how to monitor my system performance-wise, butB thanks for all the input anyway, and thanks to someone [Carl!] whoF actually answered my question! If anyone else answers it by the time I: get down to the bottom of my inbox, thanks to you as well!  E This arose because of questions from a customer who from time to time D monitors the system themselves, and had supposed there was a problemG because of the total IO against the size of the scale. As long as I can G tell him the scale is arbitrary, and show him that's the case, he'll be  happy.  	 Cheers=20    Steve Spires Technical Consultant Torex Health [T] +44 (0) 1295 274200  [F] +44 (0) 1295 275131 
 www.torex.com    >>-----Original Message-----9 >>From: Carl Perkins [mailto:carl@gergx.gerg.tamu.edu]=20  >>Sent: 04 March 2003 05:27  >>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com + >>Subject: Re: MONITOR SYSTEM screen values  >> >>3 >>"Steve Spires" <Steve.Spires@torex.com> writes... A >>}Can anyone tell me how the value scales shown on the output=20 ? >>screen for }MONITOR are calculated? More specifically, the=20  >>value for Direct IO? }=20 @ >>}On the node I am looking at the value scale runs from 0 to=20@ >>60, the user }is seeing values of 200+ and has decided that=20B >>this is a problem [they }are not technical people as such] so=20A >>I just need to explain that these }are just guideline values=20 1 >>not 'maximum' values - if that's the case. }=20 @ >>}If I could tell them how these values are derived, I think=20? >>it would }help. It seems as though I should know this, but=20 8 >>perhaps I've just never }thought about it before! }=20 >>}Steve Spires  >>A >>If you are seeing a direct I/O scale that goes up to 60, you=20 @ >>are probably looking at the MONITOR SYSTEM display (MONITOR=20B >>PROCESS/TOPDIO only goes up to 20 and MONITOR IO/CURRENT goes=20B >>up to 80). The reason you can determine which monitor command=20? >>is being talked about is that these values are the same on=20  >>every system.  >>? >>Most of the scales in MONITOR are not calculated. They are=20 B >>fixed. In fact they have been fixed to the same values pretty=20? >>much forever. So the maximum values you see on your system=20 ? >>are, I believe, the same maximums that you would have seen=20 9 >>on, for example, a VAXstation 2000 many years ago (a=20 A >>VAXstation 2000 is a pitifully slow system, it was even slow=20 ? >>when it came out). Off hand, they only calculated scales I=20 > >>can think of are those relating to memory - for these the=20* >>upper end can reflect the actual system. >>B >>They are not even guideline values. They are just values that=20B >>someone thought were suitable for the display at some point -=20 >>back in the 1980s, I expect. >>
 >>--- Carl >> >> >>   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 11:27:34 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> ) Subject: Re: MONITOR SYSTEM screen values ; Message-ID: <01KT4IC5M0DA9H0XCC@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   G > This arose because of questions from a customer who from time to time F > monitors the system themselves, and had supposed there was a problemI > because of the total IO against the size of the scale. As long as I can I > tell him the scale is arbitrary, and show him that's the case, he'll be  > happy.  ; What will you tell him when he asks why the last column in  - MONI PROC/TOP% is wider than the others?  :-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 04:46:56 -0600  From: brandon@dalsemi.com ) Subject: Re: MONITOR SYSTEM screen values 1 Message-ID: <03030404465622@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>    > Thanks to all respondents. > I > Yes, it is the MONITOR SYSTEM screen, as denoted in the subject line of D > the post. I do know how to monitor my system performance-wise, butD > thanks for all the input anyway, and thanks to someone [Carl!] whoH > actually answered my question! If anyone else answers it by the time I< > get down to the bottom of my inbox, thanks to you as well! > G > This arose because of questions from a customer who from time to time F > monitors the system themselves, and had supposed there was a problemI > because of the total IO against the size of the scale. As long as I can I > tell him the scale is arbitrary, and show him that's the case, he'll be  > happy. > 	 > Cheers   >    Steve -   M Who said you were going to get a direct answer to your question anyway??? ;-0 D Advice is free.  Correct answers are... or however that saying goes.  L I would inform your customer to DROP the use of monitor altogether and use aO combination of ECP and Availability Manager.  With ECP the customer could see a M trending in Direct, Buffered, and Disk I/O.  With A.M. the customer could see I "adjustable" values.  Unfortunately, I have not found a standard settings J option for a particular hardware platform (OK, I have not looked real hardD either).  I guess that stands in line with what I have found true inN Performance Tuning; it is suggested that you use values of the system prior toL your performance problems... silly me.  The other reason not mentioned aboutL MONITOR is the resource hog I have found it to be.  Not to mention as (Carl)O did the antiquity of value 60 - I remember when a 40Mhz machine was FAST!  WOW!   L Off the subject?  I guess that is the whole point of I-V.  Look at my backupO solutions question; got them talking about nemonix 100 Mbit cards... on bother.      John Brandon VMS Systems Administrator  Dallas Semiconductor john.brandon@dalsemi.com 972.371.4172 wk  972.371.4003 fx    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Mar 2003 12:45:51 -0600 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ) Subject: Re: MONITOR SYSTEM screen values 3 Message-ID: <EXkCsuMFytsS@eisner.encompasserve.org>   u In article <91947A84607D9D48B8E674A5FAB54DA63CB21E@tahiti.tinuk.com>, "Steve Spires" <Steve.Spires@torex.com> writes: H > Can anyone tell me how the value scales shown on the output screen forE > MONITOR are calculated? More specifically, the value for Direct IO?   0    They're usefull on an 11/780 running VMS 3.x.   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Mar 2003 06:07:36 -0800 1 From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski) 6 Subject: OpenVMS Ambassadors who have left DEC/CPQ/HPQ= Message-ID: <857e9e41.0303040607.5103bcd3@posting.google.com>     Dear Alumni OpenVMS Ambassadors,  ; I am going to be starting an email distribution for OpenVMS A Ambassadors who have left the company(s).  If you were an OpenVMS E Ambassador and would like to be on this distribution list please send ; me your email address and the dates you were an Ambassador.    Warm Regards as always Sue    Susan.Skonetski@hp.com   ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 06:29:45 -0800 (PST). From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>: Subject: Re: OpenVMS Ambassadors who have left DEC/CPQ/HPQ@ Message-ID: <20030304142945.77935.qmail@web20207.mail.yahoo.com>   Sue   8 Including ex-Compaq Services people (not employees) ????   Regards    FC  6 --- Sue Skonetski <susan_skonetski@hotmail.com> wrote:" > Dear Alumni OpenVMS Ambassadors, > = > I am going to be starting an email distribution for OpenVMS C > Ambassadors who have left the company(s).  If you were an OpenVMS G > Ambassador and would like to be on this distribution list please send = > me your email address and the dates you were an Ambassador.  >  > Warm Regards as always > Sue  >  > Susan.Skonetski@hp.com     =====  ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazil  fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!?2 Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 07:57:25 GMT # From: "LRoatch" <lroatch@attbi.com> * Subject: Re: OpenVMS Hobbyist SPL - Update/ Message-ID: <E%Y8a.350038$vm2.269691@rwcrnsc54>   < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3E580453.2512EC65@fsi.net...  > Folks, > H > I've been able to develop some DCL procedures that use the freeware LDJ > software to build CD images of the layered products licensed through the > OpenVMS Hobbyist program.  >  > The kit can be found at:2 > http://www.djesys.com/freeware/vms/hbyspl010.zip > 4 > Be sure to see the README.TXT file in the archive. > 7 > You'll find the pre-requisite LD software there also: . > http://www.djesys.com/freeware/vms/ld062.zip > @ > ...or there's a newer version at the OpenVMS Freeware CD site:C > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/freeware/freeware50/ld063/ld063.zip  >  > P.S.: G > I have not yet heard back from OpenVMS Management about producing and . > distributing a Hobbyist's SPL. Stay tuned... >  > -- > David J. Dachtera  > dba DJE Systems  > http://www.djesys.com/ > * > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 11:35:36 +0000 ' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy % Subject: Re: oracle benchmarks on VMS . Message-ID: <3E648F88.7020700@nospamn.sun.com>   Hein van den Heuvel wrote: >  > Tim Smith wrote: >  > + >>I see Oracle publishes some benchmarks at E >>http://www.oracle.com/apps_benchmark/, but notably there is nothing G >>for VMS - is that because Oracle writes to the filesystem, not direct H >>to device file files directly i.e. VMS filesystem is a lot slower than >>raw devices?      J > The VMS Filesystem is actually an advantage! The VMS filesystem does NOT > buffer data.H > On Unix systems the OS tends to waste time and memory buffering OracleJ > data pages which are better managerd by Oracle in its buffer pool (SGA).J > On many Unix implementation, for ultimate Oracle perfromance once has toA > deal with hard-to-manage 'Raw Devices' to avoid said buffering. I > On VMS you have the comfort of a file system for Alloaction, Naming and I > backups yet the speed of a raw device. On HP Tru64 Unix Oracle can (and J > will) use the DIRECT IO feature to get the same effect on single systems > as well as in clusters.  >   > On most UNIX's you now have direct I/O which avoids the buffer@ cache. Solaris UFS+ supports direct I/O, VxFS does, IBM JFS does etc.  = And the buffer cache isn't always a disadvantage since it can : act as a cache for reads but it doesn't help writes and it does consume VM resources.  < Because most UNIX filesystems support DIRECT I/O and because> differential between RAW and COOKED is now negligable very few people use RAW devices anymore.   < With COOKED obviously giving you the advantages of log basedB filesystems, snapshots, growing filesystems, shrinking filesystems+ (VxFS) etc but with the performance of RAW.    Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 11:37:25 +0000 ' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy % Subject: Re: oracle benchmarks on VMS . Message-ID: <3E648FF5.3010909@nospamn.sun.com>   John Smith wrote: H > "Hein van den Heuvel" <hein_netscape@eps.zko.dec.com> wrote in message+ > news:3E63C5E9.88569D3F@eps.zko.dec.com...  >  >> >>Tim Smith wrote: >> >>, >>>I see Oracle publishes some benchmarks at> >>>http://www.oracle.com/apps_benchmark/, but notably there is >>	 > nothing  > A >>>for VMS - is that because Oracle writes to the filesystem, not  >> > direct > D >>>to device file files directly i.e. VMS filesystem is a lot slower >> > than >  >>>raw devices?  >>. >>It has nothing to do with (potential) speed.B >>It is just a commercial / marketing decision mostly from Oracle.E >>They decided there was not enough critical mass to maintain support  >  > for  > & >>the Oracle Applicaiton suite on VMS. >  > & > Sorry Hein, nothing against you.....F > Once again HP self-limits the market for VMS by not advertising, and= > by doing so, makes it easy for sales to go to Sun/IBM/Dell.  >   : Well in this case its just as well that HP does self limit9 the market by not advertising because the point that Hein 9 is making is incorrect and has been for 6-7 years on most  UNIX platforms.    regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 09:01:20 -0500 * From: "Bruce Bowler" <bbowler@bigelow.org>5 Subject: Re: OT: America's Cup  [ was Re: I am back ] 8 Message-ID: <pan.2003.03.04.14.01.20.177709@bigelow.org>  G On Tue, 04 Mar 2003 15:29:16 +1030, Jeremy Begg put fingers to keyboard 	 and said: P > The quote is slightly misleading.  In fact, this is the first time the Cup hasP > been won by a European country, ever.  The competition started in 1851 and wasP > named after the first winner, a boat called "America".  Various teams from theN > USA successfully defended the trophy for the next 132 years, until 1983 whenN > the Australian boat "Australia II" won it, with its (in)famous winged keel. K > NZ won it a few years later and retained the Cup until this year's event.   I Not quite true...  The Aussie's took it in '83 but Conner won it back for I the US (San Diego Yacht Club) in '88 where it stayed until the Kiwi's won 
 it in '95.   Bruce    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Mar 2003 14:22:20 GMT - From: djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall) 5 Subject: Re: OT: America's Cup  [ was Re: I am back ] 5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-72dfBvl8o3Ox@localhost>   E On Mon, 3 Mar 2003 15:16:27 UTC, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)   wrote:  j > In article <bRl8a.966$L7.85759@nasal.pacific.net.au>, HARANGOZO CSABA   <spameater@spam.invalid> writes:. > > Paul Sture <p_sture@elias.decus.ch> wrote: > > [...snip...] > > ? > > 	Congratulations to Switzerland winning the America's Cup !  > > B > > 	( I just wonder where they will defend it, being a landlocked > > 	country... )  > > 						Cheers,  Csaba > F > Thanks for the thought :-) I didn't realize that it has been so long" > since a European country won it: > F > "For the first time since 1851, the America's Cup is thus now on itsF > way back to Europe, with Switzerland as the first landlocked countryG > to succeed in the battle for the world's oldest and most sought-after  > sailing trophy."  C The man from the yacht club/association in Geneva was on the radio  D yesterday morning saying that wherever they chose had to be near an D airport, have good hotels, be able to accomodate the entourages. Oh 
 yes and wind!   F Current candidates are St. Tropez, Palma di Mallorca and somewhere in 9 Portugal that I didn't recognise and thus can't remember.    --   Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Mar 2003 08:37:46 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 5 Subject: Re: OT: America's Cup  [ was Re: I am back ] 3 Message-ID: <pK1LrZz$ZLDZ@eisner.encompasserve.org>   e In article <pan.2003.03.04.14.01.20.177709@bigelow.org>, "Bruce Bowler" <bbowler@bigelow.org> writes: I > On Tue, 04 Mar 2003 15:29:16 +1030, Jeremy Begg put fingers to keyboard  > and said: Q >> The quote is slightly misleading.  In fact, this is the first time the Cup has Q >> been won by a European country, ever.  The competition started in 1851 and was Q >> named after the first winner, a boat called "America".  Various teams from the O >> USA successfully defended the trophy for the next 132 years, until 1983 when O >> the Australian boat "Australia II" won it, with its (in)famous winged keel.  L >> NZ won it a few years later and retained the Cup until this year's event. > K > Not quite true...  The Aussie's took it in '83 but Conner won it back for K > the US (San Diego Yacht Club) in '88 where it stayed until the Kiwi's won  > it in '95.  9 Your description does not conflict with that from Jeremy. A He did not say that Australia held it full time until New Zealand  won it.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 02:24:44 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>> Subject: Re: PC developers opinion of 64 bit desktop computing/ Message-ID: <3E644699.81B048F0@vl.videotron.ca>    Brian 'Jarai' Chase wrote:K > Although we're not what you'd call a significant end user market segment, F > the feature film vfx and animation industry is certainly hitting the/ > limits of 32-bit addressing on a daily basis.     X However, imagine what will happen to Microsoft once it gains access to 64 bit adressing.  N The other day, I got a one page letter that was unfortunatly in microsoft word, format. The raw message was 5000 lines long.  N With 64 bit adressing, imagine the average size of the average business letterL once feature creep has gotten in. Perhaps they'll include the full microsoft9 word software for windwos embedded in every document. :-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 00:18:33 -0800 % From: Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com> > Subject: Re: PC developers opinion of 64 bit desktop computing( Message-ID: <3E646159.8080603@rdrop.com>   JF Mezei wrote: @ > With 64 bit adressing, imagine the average size of the averageC > business letter once feature creep has gotten in. Perhaps they'll B > include the full microsoft word software for windwos embedded in > every document. :-)    With small print at the bottom: A    By reading this you agree to the license terms enclosed herein B    and agree to pay all license fees for the use of this software.!    Your account has been debited.    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Mar 2003 11:08:31 +0100 ' From: huber@mppmu.mpg.de (Joseph Huber) % Subject: Re: Questions on SSH for VMS + Message-ID: <C43WEDE1x8st@vms.mppmu.mpg.de>   w In article <01KT376BU2MA9FQH4P@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes: G >> In addition to the products mentioned by other replies, there is the G >> STUNNEL software (available from HP OpenVMS site), which establishes D >> OpenSSL based SSL/TSL servers on both sides, then one can use any( >> application to run over these ports.  >  > Could you expand on this?   < See the software description on the www.openvms.compaq.page:8   open source software -> web-enabled solutions->stunnel or direct:  < http://h71000.www7.hp.com/opensource/opensource.html#stunnel  G basically stunnel establishes a server on both sides of the connection: E an stunnel server establishes a port for each service to be encrypted M ( e.g port 2021 for FTP), on the client side stunnel creates a socket on some I other other port, and is told to forward to port 2021 on the server side.   9 Then the ftp client does FTP/port=<clientport> localhost. I If the ftp-server and -clients both handle passive mode, then the entire  = ftp traffic is encrypted, otherwise only the command traffic.   L Using stunnel, all applications can remain unchanged, and are unaware of the SSL/TSL underlying.   M stunnel is a helpfull feature as long as no full support for ssh/scp/sftp etc  is available on some systems.       --  N Joseph "Sepp" Huber   mailto:joseph.huber@web.de   http://www.huber-joseph.de/   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 11:25:42 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> % Subject: Re: Questions on SSH for VMS ; Message-ID: <01KT4I96I5AS9H0XCC@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   > > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/opensource/opensource.html#stunnel   Thanks; I'll check it out.  ; > Then the ftp client does FTP/port=<clientport> localhost. #                               ^^^^^   N > Using stunnel, all applications can remain unchanged, and are unaware of the > SSL/TSL underlying.   , Aren't these two statements a contradiction?  O > stunnel is a helpfull feature as long as no full support for ssh/scp/sftp etc  > is available on some systems.   I Wouldn't it be BETTER to have ONE application to provide all encryption,  - rather than several separate secure packages?    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Mar 2003 13:11:45 +0100 ' From: huber@mppmu.mpg.de (Joseph Huber) % Subject: Re: Questions on SSH for VMS + Message-ID: <FPy5dAvgXsLf@vms.mppmu.mpg.de>   w In article <01KT4I96I5AS9H0XCC@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes: ? >> http://h71000.www7.hp.com/opensource/opensource.html#stunnel  >  > Thanks; I'll check it out. > < >> Then the ftp client does FTP/port=<clientport> localhost.% >                               ^^^^^  > O >> Using stunnel, all applications can remain unchanged, and are unaware of the  >> SSL/TSL underlying. > . > Aren't these two statements a contradiction?   Why ?   L The USER must be aware of the different port , the applications (FTP server,K FTP client are the one without SSL , unchanged). It is just the port number ! given by user which is different.    > P >> stunnel is a helpfull feature as long as no full support for ssh/scp/sftp etc  >> is available on some systems. > K > Wouldn't it be BETTER to have ONE application to provide all encryption,  / > rather than several separate secure packages?   D Of course it would, (there was a short discussion in another thread)B but as time is, there are all different applications for each job:/  rlogin,rcp,ftp,http  -> ssh,scp,sftp,https,...     --  N Joseph "Sepp" Huber   mailto:joseph.huber@web.de   http://www.huber-joseph.de/   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 13:15:34 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> % Subject: Re: Questions on SSH for VMS ; Message-ID: <01KT4M4H27PM9H0XCC@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   > > >> Then the ftp client does FTP/port=<clientport> localhost.' > >                               ^^^^^  > > Q > >> Using stunnel, all applications can remain unchanged, and are unaware of the  > >> SSL/TSL underlying. > > 0 > > Aren't these two statements a contradiction? >  > Why ?  > N > The USER must be aware of the different port , the applications (FTP server,M > FTP client are the one without SSL , unchanged). It is just the port number # > given by user which is different.   A OK.  Still, the client must have the /PORT qualifier (or similar   functionality).    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Mar 2003 13:57:22 +0100 ' From: huber@mppmu.mpg.de (Joseph Huber) % Subject: Re: Questions on SSH for VMS + Message-ID: <8hyIFKU9LYxB@vms.mppmu.mpg.de>   w In article <01KT4M4H27PM9H0XCC@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes: ? >> >> Then the ftp client does FTP/port=<clientport> localhost. ( >> >                               ^^^^^ >> >  R >> >> Using stunnel, all applications can remain unchanged, and are unaware of the >> >> SSL/TSL underlying.  >> >  1 >> > Aren't these two statements a contradiction?  >>   >> Why ? >>  O >> The USER must be aware of the different port , the applications (FTP server, N >> FTP client are the one without SSL , unchanged). It is just the port number$ >> given by user which is different. > C > OK.  Still, the client must have the /PORT qualifier (or similar   > functionality).  > M Yes, but in the two most important cases, telnet and ftp, I think all clients 6 have this capability, on VMS as on Unix/Linux systems.    --  N Joseph "Sepp" Huber   mailto:joseph.huber@web.de   http://www.huber-joseph.de/   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 13:11:33 GMT + From: Jeff Cameron <JCam90502@jcameron.com> 9 Subject: Sending OPCOM or Security Audit events via email 2 Message-ID: <BA89E604.57A0%JCam90502@jcameron.com>  K Has anyone have a simple solution for sending OPCOM messages for a specific G class, and/or Security Audit events via email? It would be desirable to H execute a DCL script so that I may filter and condense certain messages.  	 Thank you  Jeff Cameron   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Mar 2003 07:40:58 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) = Subject: Re: Sending OPCOM or Security Audit events via email 3 Message-ID: <sNb8QSs6CDxj@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ` In article <BA89E604.57A0%JCam90502@jcameron.com>, Jeff Cameron <JCam90502@jcameron.com> writes:M > Has anyone have a simple solution for sending OPCOM messages for a specific I > class, and/or Security Audit events via email? It would be desirable to J > execute a DCL script so that I may filter and condense certain messages.  B I don't think solutions in that area are "simple", but methods areC documented.  In the case of OPCOM messages you probably have to use F a pseudoterminal, while for Audit messages there is the Audit Listener Mailbox.  B Since the base processing would be written in a compiled language,@ I think it would be a bad idea to use DCL for your filtering and condensing.    ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 06:27:18 -0800 (PST). From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>= Subject: Re: Sending OPCOM or Security Audit events via email ? Message-ID: <20030304142718.8413.qmail@web20209.mail.yahoo.com>    Jeff   I will improve your request:  7 I want a solution of remote managament which I can use  5 an Ipaq (or my TabletPC) with GSM or CDMA PCMCIA card 5 to connect to  a management gateway for OpenVMS (may  , be ConsoleWorks would be adapted to do this)8 So I will manage the OpenVMS servers at home, or receive5 important replies and send messages to the operators. 3 Would be a Insight Manager or HP Openview add-on !  : May be if HP dont have interest Heroix can do something...  ; Am I dreaming ? For me the future os management is Wireless 8 Management..... Mainly for us Independent Consultants !   9 A friend of mine developed a WAP application to congigure " MS clusters in his Nokia mobile !    Regards    FC  0 --- Jeff Cameron <JCam90502@jcameron.com> wrote:M > Has anyone have a simple solution for sending OPCOM messages for a specific I > class, and/or Security Audit events via email? It would be desirable to J > execute a DCL script so that I may filter and condense certain messages. >  > Thank you  > Jeff Cameron >      =====  ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazil  fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!?2 Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 16:39:16 +0100 ) From: Bart Zorn <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl> = Subject: Re: Sending OPCOM or Security Audit events via email 6 Message-ID: <3e64c8a5$0$49111$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>  6 There is a product which can do all of this, and more.  * Have a look at http://www.hp.be/cockpitmgr  	 Bart Zorn    Fabio Cardoso wrote: > Jeff >=20 > I will improve your request: >=20; > I want a solution of remote managament which I can use=20 7 > an Ipaq (or my TabletPC) with GSM or CDMA PCMCIA card 9 > to connect to  a management gateway for OpenVMS (may=20 . > be ConsoleWorks would be adapted to do this): > So I will manage the OpenVMS servers at home, or receive7 > important replies and send messages to the operators. 7 > Would be a Insight Manager or HP Openview add-on !=20 < > May be if HP dont have interest Heroix can do something... >=20= > Am I dreaming ? For me the future os management is Wireless < > Management..... Mainly for us Independent Consultants !=20 >=20; > A friend of mine developed a WAP application to congigure & > MS clusters in his Nokia mobile !=20 >=20	 > Regards  >=20 > FC=20 2 > --- Jeff Cameron <JCam90502@jcameron.com> wrote: >=20J >>Has anyone have a simple solution for sending OPCOM messages for a spec= ificJ >>class, and/or Security Audit events via email? It would be desirable to=  J >>execute a DCL script so that I may filter and condense certain messages= =2E  >> >>Thank you  >>Jeff Cameron >> >=20 >=20 >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D K > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=  =3D=3D > F=E1bio dos Santos Cardoso > OpenVMS System Manager > Rio de Janeiro - Brazil  > fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.brK > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=  =3D=3D >=204 > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!?4 > Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more > http://taxes.yahoo.com/    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 11:16:54 -0500 ' From: Chris Olive <nospam@raytheon.com> = Subject: Re: Sending OPCOM or Security Audit events via email ; Message-ID: <_k49a.78$35.482@dfw-service2.ext.raytheon.com>    Jeff Cameron wrote: M > Has anyone have a simple solution for sending OPCOM messages for a specific I > class, and/or Security Audit events via email? It would be desirable to J > execute a DCL script so that I may filter and condense certain messages. >   > This isn't another "contest" with your Unix friend, is it? 8-)  0 (Couldn't resist asking this tongue-in-cheek...)   Chris  -----  Chris Olive  Systems Consultant' Raytheon Technical Services Corporation  Indianapolis, IN  * email: olivec(AT)indy(DOT)raytheon(DOT)com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 09:59:30 -0500 1 From: Bob Supnik <bsupnik@nauticusnet.nospam.com> W Subject: SIMH 2.10-4 released: major bug fixes to PDP-8, PDP-11, VAX, PDP-15, Interdata 8 Message-ID: <ddf96vckhbd5h7l528jl6t1hpurtagilj4@4ax.com>  D SIMH V2.10-4 was posted on http://simh.trailing-edge.com last night.  ; This release includes significant bug fixes, in particular:   F PDP-11/VAX - fixed problem booting simulated tape images on the TQK50.@ Both standalone BACKUP and Ultrix booting have been tested.   In detail: 1 - Fixed queue ordering problem in TQK50 and RQDX3 * - Fixed modifier checking problem in TQK50@ - Fixed vector calculation problem (VMS only) in TQK50 and RQDX34 - Added user-defined drive types for TQK50 and RQDX3# - Fixed autosize algorithm in RX211   6 PDP-15 - fixed problems related to DOS-15.  In detail: - Fixed three EAE bugs" - Fixed autosize algorithm in RF15' - Fixed interrupt, BOT handling in TC59    PDP-8:. - Fixed autosize algorithm in RF08, DF32, RX28? - Fixed BOT handling in TM8E, checked tape simulation with OS/8   B Interdata - Unix V6 and V7 kits debugged and released.  In detail:- - Fixed precision clock calibration algorithm : - Fixed handling of disk cylinder overflow errors on reads- - Fixed tape handling of tape marks on writes    SCP: - added .ini file capability' - added multiple actions per breakpoint ( - fixed bug in multiword deposit to file! - added magtape emulation library   1 Misc: all line clocks can be set to 50Hz or 60Hz.    /Bob Supnik    ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 13:13:21 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> < Subject: strange behaviour of SET ENVIRONMENT/NODE in SYSMAN; Message-ID: <01KT4LQI7ZLW9H0XCC@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   " The question is "bug or feature?".  G The HELP says to enclose a list of nodes in parentheses, and indeed if  G one doesn't it doesn't work.  On the other hand, if one uses a logical  D name (in SYSMAN$NODE_TABLE) for the node list, then one can omit the
 parentheses.    3 With, say, SET PROTECTION, one cannot leave out the E parentheses---neither explicitly nor in the definition of a logical.  H (This is not really comparable since one can't use the logical directly  but instead must use F$TRNLNM.)    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 10:45:07 +0100* From: Morten Reistad <mrr@reistad.priv.no> Subject: Re: unix / Message-ID: <3js14b.hj1.ln@via.reistad.priv.no>   / According to Eugene Miya <eugene@cse.ucsc.edu>: 0 >In article <md514b.on9.ln@via.reistad.priv.no>,- >Morten Reistad  <mrr@reistad.priv.no> wrote: ? >>Another thing you forget about unix is that the sources were  ? >>in effect submitted to peer review, and they were extensively = >>reviewed. Commentaries were written (e.g. Lyons), textbooks 9 >>referenced them; they were included in lots and lots of ? >>research; and the foremost academic institutions in the world  >>took them to their hearts.   > 1 >Lyons authored a fine annotation.  I had a copy. G >However, I would not say that the best code always came from academia. F >Many fine OS features came from industry from both indutrial concernsJ >(IBM and Tandem) and never saw the light of day, or from places like BBN.B >VMS, for instance, had features which created communities of use,F >whether Unix fans liked them or not.  Berkeley style networking wouldE >look a lot like DECnet to a pure IBMer familiar with SNA or numerous 1 >other architectures behind the networking curve. 2 >Student code, is in many cases, far from perfect.  : I do not doubt that much of the industrially produced codeA rivalled unix in quality. It also introduced lots of new concepts > and good methodology. It was, however, not published and lived? with the merits of the producing company. Some of it survived,  ? most did unfortunalty not. There was amazingly little migration < of software concepts and standards across corporate borders.  ? >>That meant they took to adapting and mutating them, and a set ? >>of baselines formed in the form of distributions. All of this ; >>was an open, peer reviewed process, in stark contrast to  C >>corporate development. And, the academic model of r&d held water.  >  >From /usr/games/fortune:  >  >University, n.:D >        Like a software house, except the software's free, and it'sG >usable, and it works, and if it breaks they'll quickly tell you how to  >fix it, and ... >  >  >That's BSD humor for ya.   A I will not claim that university produced code is any better than C other. The process around it has a strong pressure to keep the best @ though. The networking code in BSD is some of the best there is.? That was one of many thousand TCP/IP implementations written in 
 academia.   < After around 1984 unix has tended to receive at least one of* the reference implmentations of new work.   7 Nowadays there are also at least two active codebases.  : There is the unix/bsd one, and there is the Linux/GNU one.; I see this as a good thing. It fosters competition of ideas  and implementations.  = >>This was because the unix developers adhered to the core of < >>the scientific world-view, namely published, peer reviewed= >>documents. What was new and revolutionary was that this was # >>source code, not human language.   >>9 >>For this we have given them far too little recognition.  >  >Oh sort of.E >This view isn't monolithic.  I only need to point to Stephen Wolfram . >as an example a less than sharing programmer. > I >I prefer to think of a culture of people who realized that it was better 0 >to share than those who held their cards close.  > And where did that culture exist? Remeber "Publish or Perish".  = It was the major universities and colleges that sheltered it.   ? I freely admit that much of the code arriving from universities ? was crap. But among the crap was a lot of gems that the culture  recongnized and grew.   ; Just look at how Linus' project got received. This was done = on his and a few others spare time, with the ONLY substantial B support given from local colleges and universities; that permitted* the use of hardware, network and offices.   = >>So, to all of you out there writing papers on unix, include ; >>a reference to the source of your operating system in the < >>reference of your paper. (this is how the scientific world >>tallies importance). > H >I sort of have to agree that this tallying is commonly done in the face* >of topic ignorance.  He has a point here. >...> >>From the comments given earlier, these sources from DEC were> >>not written to the standards of peer review; ref the absence0 >>of comments, personal "ownership" of code etc. > ( >Barb is the best person to answer that. > = >>These were commercial implementations, not intended for the @ >>public. Publishing code is a whole different thing from making
 >>it work. > E >It is amazing how much unworkable code was published in pseudo-Algol  >from the 50s thru the 70s.   & And pseudo-pascal and pseudo-fortran.   < Some ideas are best expressed in formal systems. Source code) is a beneficial system for some of this.    ; We well just have to let the peer review root the bugs out.   E >Instead of dividing the world into academic and scientific, consider E >looking at different programming communities.  Those sharing numeric ? >code shared differently than those in business (libraries  and D >"packages" [e.g., SPSS, SAS] best well known).  Those who worked inG >networking (telecommunication protocols) had to deal with heterogenity : >in ways that others didn't (it takes 2 to share packets).A >Those working in graphics and AI (serious AI [ask to share Cyc]) / >also having different degrees of code sharing.   A The telecom world was one of the worst offenders regarding closed C source and closed minds. Just look at how the Internet had to shake B them up. The Internet did away with most of their familiar truismsF regarding business models, adherence to standards, access to referenceC implmentations, access to the standards themselves and influence in F the standards process.They are still trying to shape it in their fold," but the Internet has grown up now.  @ In a PPOE I had daily fight with this PTT mindset. And they tell- us that "our" PTT was one of the better ones.    >>>Girl, you got that right.N >>>That was a slightly different time in the history of intellectual property.$ >>>Complexity got the better of DEC. >>% >>Yep, DEC was it's own worst enemy.   >  >True.  >We are all our own worst enemy.    To the confusion of our enemies!   -- mrr   ------------------------------  ! Date: Tue, 04 Mar 03 10:38:59 GMT  From: jmfbahciv@aol.com  Subject: Re: unix + Message-ID: <b422bf$4p8$8@bob.news.rcn.net>   & In article <3e64029e$1@news.ucsc.edu>,+    eugene@cse.ucsc.edu (Eugene Miya) wrote: H >In article <b3qhii$nu2$4@bob.news.rcn.net>,  <jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote:+ >>In article <rb26j-hcj.ln1@pez.jarai.com>, 3 >>   bdc@world.std.com (Brian 'Jarai' Chase) wrote: + >>>In article <3E554E38.7881042@yahoo.com>, . >>>Peter Flass  <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:D >>>> I'll NEVER understand unix poeople.  Put three of 'em and theirK >>>> computers in a room and you'll wind up with at least five more-or-less  >>>> incompatible versions.    >>> G >>>Consider the role of subtle differences and diversity in the process F >>>of natural selection and in evolution in general.  One of the greatF >>>strengths of Unix and Unix-like operating systems is their inherentC >>>ability to adapt to the needs of a wide variety of target users.  >>A >>Sorry, you've got it bass-ackwards and this is a very important < >>point.  The only reason those adaptations are happening is: >>because enough users have the sources to implement them. > C >Barb's point about source is the critical one, but Brian's comment ; >is important considering the buggy nature of all software. F >It's adaptability was due to a combination of minimalism (the OS justC >tries to really be nothing more than a multiplexor) and a level of @ >partitioning between tools and the OS (a concept foreign to the@ >big monolithic code types (the old style punch card batch type  environments).B >The only things you guys left out were the relative accessibilityJ >of the developers (Thanks Dennis for taking a phone call from me in 1977)5 >to unix-wizards when it was an ARPAnet mailing list.  >  > E >>No company exists that has both enough manpower and time to it all. B >>It was one of TOPS-10's strengths to ship its sources.  Not only? >>could customers do customized changes, they could upgrade our A >>stuff and still be able to use their stuff after a <ahem>little @ >>bit of work.  My point is that it was possible to evolve their= >>software as ours evolves.  That can't happen if sources and * >>the tools to mush them aren't available. > B >Yep.  And she notes the fatal mistake in the next paragraph, too. >As a co-worker once said:( >	If it ain't source, it ain't software.2 >And the community has to hold develoeprs to that.  ; Yea, but how do you wedge that into those little brains who 7 think that it's important to withhold that information? . I seem to have spent a lifetime fighting that. > @ >>Unix could suck eggs but people will still use it if, and only< >>if, they get the sources.  One of DEC's fatal mistakes was< >>to try to keep the "knowledge", a.k.a. sources, to itself;; >>it was under the misconception that secrecy would protect > >>its investment and intellectual property.  This is one case # >>where the exact opposite is true.  >  >Girl, you got that right.  C Good bit gods!  The earth just shifted right out from under my xxx.  You agreed with me ;-)))).  6 >That was a slightly different time in the history of  >intellectual property. " >Complexity got the better of DEC.  ; Oh, but see.  My hypothesis is that the complexity wouldn't 8 have gotten out of hand if sources had been shipped.  It9 was a brute force way of keeping us honest.  A great part : of shipping sources was maintaining and shipping the tools7 that built them.  In addition, the bits that did end up 7 on the magtapes, couldn't be jury-rigged if the sources 6 went along with them.  Like I said it was a very sharp7 two-edged sword.  PHBs could not take short-cuts.  Boy, 7 did they try but my source policies didn't let them get 8 away with any short cuts.  It pissed a lot of people off6 but we ended up shipping a product that could be built> with true verification (a BINCOM would detect no differences).   /BAH     /BAH    ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.    ------------------------------  ! Date: Tue, 04 Mar 03 10:47:23 GMT  From: jmfbahciv@aol.com  Subject: Re: unix + Message-ID: <b422r8$4p8$9@bob.news.rcn.net>   / In article <md514b.on9.ln@via.reistad.priv.no>, .    Morten Reistad <mrr@reistad.priv.no> wrote:0 >According to Eugene Miya <eugene@cse.ucsc.edu>:I >>In article <b3qhii$nu2$4@bob.news.rcn.net>,  <jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote: , >>>In article <rb26j-hcj.ln1@pez.jarai.com>,4 >>>   bdc@world.std.com (Brian 'Jarai' Chase) wrote:, >>>>In article <3E554E38.7881042@yahoo.com>,/ >>>>Peter Flass  <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote: E >>>>> I'll NEVER understand unix poeople.  Put three of 'em and their @ >>>>> computers in a room and you'll wind up with at least five  more-or-less >>>>> incompatible versions.   >>>>H >>>>Consider the role of subtle differences and diversity in the processG >>>>of natural selection and in evolution in general.  One of the great G >>>>strengths of Unix and Unix-like operating systems is their inherent D >>>>ability to adapt to the needs of a wide variety of target users. >>> B >>>Sorry, you've got it bass-ackwards and this is a very important= >>>point.  The only reason those adaptations are happening is ; >>>because enough users have the sources to implement them.  >>D >>Barb's point about source is the critical one, but Brian's comment< >>is important considering the buggy nature of all software.G >>It's adaptability was due to a combination of minimalism (the OS just D >>tries to really be nothing more than a multiplexor) and a level ofA >>partitioning between tools and the OS (a concept foreign to the A >>big monolithic code types (the old style punch card batch type   environments).C >>The only things you guys left out were the relative accessibility K >>of the developers (Thanks Dennis for taking a phone call from me in 1977) 6 >>to unix-wizards when it was an ARPAnet mailing list. > > >Another thing you forget about unix is that the sources were > >in effect submitted to peer review, and they were extensively< >reviewed. Commentaries were written (e.g. Lyons), textbooks8 >referenced them; they were included in lots and lots of> >research; and the foremost academic institutions in the world >took them to their hearts.    > > >That meant they took to adapting and mutating them, and a set> >of baselines formed in the form of distributions. All of this: >was an open, peer reviewed process, in stark contrast to ; >corporate development. And, the academic model of r&d held  >water.  > < >This was because the unix developers adhered to the core of; >the scientific world-view, namely published, peer reviewed < >documents. What was new and revolutionary was that this was" >source code, not human language.  > 8 >For this we have given them far too little recognition.  8 [penny drops with a resounding !]  I never thought of it: that way.  You're right.  I did all of my work on gut feel6 without being able to justify it.  This one completely< justifies it.  I sure could have used you when I was arguing with my peers and bosses ;-).  > < >So, to all of you out there writing papers on unix, include: >a reference to the source of your operating system in the; >reference of your paper. (this is how the scientific world  >tallies importance).  > F >>>No company exists that has both enough manpower and time to it all.C >>>It was one of TOPS-10's strengths to ship its sources.  Not only @ >>>could customers do customized changes, they could upgrade ourB >>>stuff and still be able to use their stuff after a <ahem>littleA >>>bit of work.  My point is that it was possible to evolve their > >>>software as ours evolves.  That can't happen if sources and+ >>>the tools to mush them aren't available.  >>C >>Yep.  And she notes the fatal mistake in the next paragraph, too.  >>As a co-worker once said: ) >>	If it ain't source, it ain't software. 3 >>And the community has to hold develoeprs to that.  >>A >>>Unix could suck eggs but people will still use it if, and only = >>>if, they get the sources.  One of DEC's fatal mistakes was = >>>to try to keep the "knowledge", a.k.a. sources, to itself; < >>>it was under the misconception that secrecy would protect? >>>its investment and intellectual property.  This is one case  $ >>>where the exact opposite is true. > = >From the comments given earlier, these sources from DEC were = >not written to the standards of peer review; ref the absence / >of comments, personal "ownership" of code etc.   < The process was different; but peer review include customers; in our case.  That was another strength of DEC (which they  7 blew).  Our customers became peers by reading the code. < Eventually code ownership also included writing comments for6 others.  It was a part of the evolution of how we did  development.   > < >These were commercial implementations, not intended for the? >public. Publishing code is a whole different thing from making 	 >it work.   5 Nope.  I disagree--not if a part of the "publishing"  7 included the executables.  Never underestimate the zeal ' produced when people look for bugs :-).      >>Girl, you got that right. 7 >>That was a slightly different time in the history of   >>intellectual property.# >>Complexity got the better of DEC.  > $ >Yep, DEC was it's own worst enemy.   3 We all are our own worst enemy; that's just life.      /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 14:06:06 GMT + From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>  Subject: Re: unix ) Message-ID: <uy93v6x3n.fsf@earthlink.net>   ) eugene@cse.ucsc.edu (Eugene Miya) writes: D > Lyons authored a fine annotation.  I had a copy.  However, I wouldE > not say that the best code always came from academia.  Many fine OS C > features came from industry from both indutrial concerns (IBM and B > Tandem) and never saw the light of day, or from places like BBN.C > VMS, for instance, had features which created communities of use, A > whether Unix fans liked them or not.  Berkeley style networking C > would look a lot like DECnet to a pure IBMer familiar with SNA or D > numerous other architectures behind the networking curve.  Student+ > code, is in many cases, far from perfect.   F i think many people would take exception with SNA being referred to asF networking ... it was communication not networking (aka large numbers,= 30k, 60k, etc of terminals connected to mainframe). The first E semblence of networking related to SNA was APPN ... and the SNA crowd F non-concurred with APPN announcement. Eventually the APPN announcementB letter went out but it was rewritten to eliminate any statement of  connection between APPN and SNA.  < when anne got con'ed into going to POK to be responsible forD loosely-coupled architecture ... she originated "peer-coupled sharedB data" and got a lot of push back from the SNA crowd because of theC "peer" part. there have been some references that large part of SNA E was driven by pu4/pu5 interface for dealing with PCM (plug compatible A manufactor) market (and cancelation of FS which had some possible D objective for dealing with FS). And I've gotten some amount of blaim for help originating PCM: 0 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#360pcm  ? and then later in HSDT to emulate SNA but using underlying peer  network infrastructure: L http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003c.html#28 diffence between itanium and alpha   --  3 Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/  A Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Mar 2003 14:22:24 GMT - From: djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall)  Subject: Re: unix 5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-XKEdeQtdyd3W@localhost>   9 On Mon, 3 Mar 2003 12:29:24 UTC, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:   7 > In article <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-OZcMfoIqdNIW@localhost>, 3 >    djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall) wrote: < > >On Sun, 2 Mar 2003 10:20:09 UTC, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > > . > >> In article <0PL33tx$iQG4@elias.decus.ch>,E > >> >Memories of a DEC comms program back in the late 1970s here. It G > >> >could have saved us an awful lot of money but didn't work. We had G > >> >the source for at least some of it, but all the comments had been ! > >> >stripped. Plain stupid IMO.  > >> >C > >> I don't believe that.  I would believe that the comments never  > >> existed.    > > % > >Obviously self-commenting then :-)  > ? > NOpe.  You have to understand that these guys did not comment = > for the benefit of the code reader.  The comments were for  < > their benefit and ONLY their benefit.  It wasn't until the> > company got too big that commentary was deemed necessary for; > the maintenance group.  In the beginning, maintenance was ? > done by the developers.  I don't know how to communicate this < > to you people who 1. haven't done OS development as their 9 > primary business and 2. can't conceive of a development A > business where the maintainers rarely saw, let alone talked to, = > the developers.  This last one happens when the offices are  > geographically isolated.  @ You're right, I do have trouble with number 2. Although a small  microcosm thereof :-  E 20 years ago I was responsible for integrating a sub-system into our  E test system. The bloke who'd written it was very bright but believed  B in the 'self-commneting' bs. Anyway, as I started intergating and F testing, I added my comments to the project's copy of his sources. OneB day, when I'd got to a point where something was wrong, we sat on @ neighbouring desks, each with his own source listing, trying to F determine what was going wrong. I had to try very hard to suppress theC smirk when he asked 'what's going on here?' and I read the comment  ! that I'd added that explained it.    --   Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 06:42:28 -0800# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>  Subject: RE: unix 9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIOELGGLAA.tom@kednos.com>    Lynne,  A For the unfamiliar, you should have perhaps explained the special 4 meaning of "non-concur" and "push back"  within IBM.   >-----Original Message----- 3 >From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler [mailto:lynn@garlic.com] & >Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 6:06 AM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >Subject: Re: unix >  > * >eugene@cse.ucsc.edu (Eugene Miya) writes:E >> Lyons authored a fine annotation.  I had a copy.  However, I would F >> not say that the best code always came from academia.  Many fine OSD >> features came from industry from both indutrial concerns (IBM andC >> Tandem) and never saw the light of day, or from places like BBN. D >> VMS, for instance, had features which created communities of use,B >> whether Unix fans liked them or not.  Berkeley style networkingD >> would look a lot like DECnet to a pure IBMer familiar with SNA orE >> numerous other architectures behind the networking curve.  Student , >> code, is in many cases, far from perfect. > G >i think many people would take exception with SNA being referred to as G >networking ... it was communication not networking (aka large numbers, > >30k, 60k, etc of terminals connected to mainframe). The firstF >semblence of networking related to SNA was APPN ... and the SNA crowdG >non-concurred with APPN announcement. Eventually the APPN announcement C >letter went out but it was rewritten to eliminate any statement ofN! >connection between APPN and SNA.  >s= >when anne got con'ed into going to POK to be responsible foreE >loosely-coupled architecture ... she originated "peer-coupled sharedeC >data" and got a lot of push back from the SNA crowd because of the D >"peer" part. there have been some references that large part of SNAF >was driven by pu4/pu5 interface for dealing with PCM (plug compatibleB >manufactor) market (and cancelation of FS which had some possibleE >objective for dealing with FS). And I've gotten some amount of blaimr >for help originating PCM:1 >http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#360pcmC >a@ >and then later in HSDT to emulate SNA but using underlying peer >network infrastructure:D >http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003c.html#28 diffence between itanium 
 >and alpha >. >-- 4 >Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/ B >Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm >w >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).rA >Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/2003: >: ---m& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/2003   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Mar 2003 10:25:09 -0800 ' From: eugene@cse.ucsc.edu (Eugene Miya)t Subject: Re: unixn& Message-ID: <3e64ef85$1@news.ucsc.edu>   Followups to afc.t  ) In article <uy93v6x3n.fsf@earthlink.net>,l- Anne & Lynn Wheeler  <lynn@garlic.com> wrote:s* >eugene@cse.ucsc.edu (Eugene Miya) writes:D >> would look a lot like DECnet to a pure IBMer familiar with SNA orE >> numerous other architectures behind the networking curve.  Studentd, >> code, is in many cases, far from perfect. >rG >i think many people would take exception with SNA being referred to as G >networking ... it was communication not networking (aka large numbers,e> >30k, 60k, etc of terminals connected to mainframe). The firstF >semblence of networking related to SNA was APPN ... and the SNA crowdG >non-concurred with APPN announcement. Eventually the APPN announcement C >letter went out but it was rewritten to eliminate any statement ofe! >connection between APPN and SNA.    Only knoweldgeable engineers.kE But many more, authors, customers, managers, marketing did see SNA as J networking in the larger context.  Not just 3270s.  That is the "N" in SNA after all, right?r  D SNA was touted as a serious competitor to DECnet (which was far more= functional at the time) and to TCP and X.25 in the early 80s.u< We had to fight our own managers internally at other Centers@ against SNA and DECnet (SPAN) for TCP.  Fortunately, we had Milo and the Valley.s  @ It surprises me that to this day, the experience of being on NCPA from 1973-1975 still has influence on my networking observations.O; Many of the problems still exist, and lots of functionalitya; (the joke of "graceful degradation") is still non-existent.g  ? That, early Ethernet and Alto experience, and even early DECnet @ experience were educational.  The problem with people's thinking@ is text dominance (which is the same problem with all the markup( languages, Charlie G. not withstanding).   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Mar 2003 10:10:42 -0800e' From: eugene@cse.ucsc.edu (Eugene Miya)  Subject: Re: unix & Message-ID: <3e64ec22$1@news.ucsc.edu>   Followups reduced to afc.   / In article <3js14b.hj1.ln@via.reistad.priv.no>, , Morten Reistad  <mrr@reistad.priv.no> wrote:0 >According to Eugene Miya <eugene@cse.ucsc.edu>:1 >>In article <md514b.on9.ln@via.reistad.priv.no>,-. >>Morten Reistad  <mrr@reistad.priv.no> wrote: >>>peer review, e.g. Lyons), >>H >>However, I would not say that the best code always came from academia.G >>Many fine OS features came from industry from both indutrial concernsoK >>(IBM and Tandem) and never saw the light of day, or from places like BBN.0C >>VMS, for instance, had features which created communities of use, G >>whether Unix fans liked them or not.  Berkeley style networking would F >>look a lot like DECnet to a pure IBMer familiar with SNA or numerous2 >>other architectures behind the networking curve.3 >>Student code, is in many cases, far from perfect.a >.; >I do not doubt that much of the industrially produced codeVB >rivalled unix in quality. It also introduced lots of new concepts? >and good methodology. It was, however, not published and liveda@ >with the merits of the producing company. Some of it survived, @ >most did unfortunalty not. There was amazingly little migration= >of software concepts and standards across corporate borders.   G There are millions of lines of code which form the corporate memory notrI only at corporations but also early govt. agencies using early computers. < Schools and corps aren't the only places which produce code.     >>From /usr/games/fortune: >>University, n.:nE >>        Like a software house, except the software's free, and it'suH >>usable, and it works, and if it breaks they'll quickly tell you how to >>fix it, and ...1 >0B >I will not claim that university produced code is any better thanD >other. The process around it has a strong pressure to keep the bestA >though. The networking code in BSD is some of the best there is.m@ >That was one of many thousand TCP/IP implementations written in >academia. w  E The networking code in BSD was largely lifted from Rob's code at BBN.aB I tend to doubt that 1,000 implementations of TCP/IP were written. Copied: more than that. @ I am not certain by what metric you are claiming that it's best.F A student at MIT has certainly implemented TCP in a much smaller spaceI than previously thought possible (under 1KB), but that was only recently.   = >After around 1984 unix has tended to receive at least one ofs+ >the reference implmentations of new work. f   ?o   Huh?E In 1984, when computer companies attempted to introduce new machines,AH it was practically the kiss of death to start a new OS: Elxsi, Denelcor,C and keep old dinosaurs around: SCS, Supertek,  etc.  That's because 0 the corps. found where they got their personnel.    8 >Nowadays there are also at least two active codebases. ; >There is the unix/bsd one, and there is the Linux/GNU one.f< >I see this as a good thing. It fosters competition of ideas >and implementations.e  B I'd give the guys at the Labs some credit with v8, Plan 9, Inferno MERIT, and other things.  > >>>This was because the unix developers adhered to the core of= >>>the scientific world-view, namely published, peer reviewedd> >>>documents. What was new and revolutionary was that this was$ >>>source code, not human language. : >>>For this we have given them far too little recognition. >>
 >>Oh sort of.AF >>This view isn't monolithic.  I only need to point to Stephen Wolfram/ >>as an example a less than sharing programmer.  >>J >>I prefer to think of a culture of people who realized that it was better1 >>to share than those who held their cards close.o >W? >And where did that culture exist? Remeber "Publish or Perish".A  H The IETF.  "We reject kings, ... in favor for rough consenus and working code..."  > >It was the major universities and colleges that sheltered it.  
 Some what.F Computers and networking were not taken up initially by the Ivy LeagueF and the major first rate universities.  It was the second stringers inG many cases (Avis: we try harder).  One only has to look at the earliest K ARPAnet maps.  There was also a lot of conservatism (your point lower down)-H between mainline math and EE depts. about CS.  There were more fledglingB CS Depts. in the early 80's running VMS than 32v or 4.1BSD/4.2BSD.  @ >I freely admit that much of the code arriving from universities@ >was crap. But among the crap was a lot of gems that the culture >recognized and grew.o   A generalization.c  < >Just look at how Linus' project got received. This was done> >on his and a few others spare time, with the ONLY substantialC >support given from local colleges and universities; that permittedt+ >the use of hardware, network and offices. n  + One could argue the same with Andrew Wiles.t> Linus (posting over in c.a.) got support from many on the net.  ? >>>From the comments given earlier, these sources from DEC were0? >>>not written to the standards of peer review; ref the absenceA1 >>>of comments, personal "ownership" of code etc.O >>) >>Barb is the best person to answer that.< >>> >>>These were commercial implementations, not intended for theA >>>public. Publishing code is a whole different thing from making  >>>it work.s >>F >>It is amazing how much unworkable code was published in pseudo-Algol >>from the 50s thru the 70s. >i' >And pseudo-pascal and pseudo-fortran. i  * I said 50-70s.  Pascal was basically 1970.> Algol is the designated ACM language for expressing algorithms8 (now regularly ignored).  Fortran was not that powerful.  = >Some ideas are best expressed in formal systems. Source code * >is a beneficial system for some of this.  >-< >We well just have to let the peer review root the bugs out.  5 Peer review, in itself, is insufficient to find bugs.M( A dumb piece of iron is a little better.  F >>Instead of dividing the world into academic and scientific, considerF >>looking at different programming communities.  Those sharing numeric@ >>code shared differently than those in business (libraries  andE >>"packages" [e.g., SPSS, SAS] best well known).  Those who worked inmH >>networking (telecommunication protocols) had to deal with heterogenity; >>in ways that others didn't (it takes 2 to share packets).AB >>Those working in graphics and AI (serious AI [ask to share Cyc])0 >>also having different degrees of code sharing. >OB >The telecom world was one of the worst offenders regarding closedD >source and closed minds. Just look at how the Internet had to shake 	Analog world: sure.C >them up. The Internet did away with most of their familiar truismseG >regarding business models, adherence to standards, access to referenceoD >implmentations, access to the standards themselves and influence inG >the standards process.They are still trying to shape it in their fold,p# >but the Internet has grown up now.e  0 I would not put that in the past tense just yet.  A >In a PPOE I had daily fight with this PTT mindset. And they tello. >us that "our" PTT was one of the better ones.  % PTTs aren't the only static mindsets.  Academics are just as bad.E Tenured faculty are just as bad, that's part of their job, to cut the,B fine line between old ideas and recognizing brillance in students.' The basic problem is aging and comfort.      >>>>Girl, you got that right. O >>>>That was a slightly different time in the history of intellectual property. % >>>>Complexity got the better of DEC.a >>>.& >>>Yep, DEC was it's own worst enemy.  >> >>True..! >>We are all our own worst enemy.K >a! >To the confusion of our enemies!1  ) Amazing, Barb and I gave the same answer.i Scary.   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Mar 2003 02:58:08 -0800(< From: johan.nordebrink@se.flextronics.com (Johan Nordebrink)4 Subject: Upgrade to OPEN VMS 7.3-1 - Patches needed?= Message-ID: <d443f1b8.0303040258.70f9e72d@posting.google.com>e  < I am planning to do an upgrade from OPEN VMS 7.2-1 to 7.3-1.  L Anyone know of some patches(VMS, TCPIP, DECnet IV) that I must also install?   Thank you in advance!s   /Johan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 06:54:00 -0500s2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)8 Subject: Re: Upgrade to OPEN VMS 7.3-1 - Patches needed?L Message-ID: <rdeininger-0403030654000001@user-105n874.dialup.mindspring.com>  = In article <d443f1b8.0303040258.70f9e72d@posting.google.com>,-= johan.nordebrink@se.flextronics.com (Johan Nordebrink) wrote:5  = >I am planning to do an upgrade from OPEN VMS 7.2-1 to 7.3-1.d > M >Anyone know of some patches(VMS, TCPIP, DECnet IV) that I must also install?S >e >Thank you in advance!  E There are a number of useful URLs in the FAQ.  You should have a copyl6 handy for reference.  Start at www.openvms.compaq.com.  7 The most useful reference site for VMS patches is here:u  5 http://ftp.digital.com.au/pub/ecoinfo/ecoinfo/top.htme  : I am partial to the "Indexed by Version" link on the left.   ------------------------------   Date: 4 MAR 2003 15:19:35 GMTE4 From: karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher)8 Subject: Re: Upgrade to OPEN VMS 7.3-1 - Patches needed?5 Message-ID: <4MAR03.15193522@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>Q  T In a previous article, johan.nordebrink@se.flextronics.com (Johan Nordebrink) wrote:  > ->I am planning to do an upgrade from OPEN VMS 7.2-1 to 7.3-1. -> rN ->Anyone know of some patches(VMS, TCPIP, DECnet IV) that I must also install?  H Be sure you have a look at the release notes for VMS721_RENAME_OLD-V0200B (http://ftp.digital.com.au/pub/ecoinfo/ecoinfo/880.htm) before youD upgrade. Inspect SYS$COMMON:[SYSUPD]VMS$REMEDIAL_OLD_FILES.TXT (evenF after you apply the patch) to be sure there are no file names that endF in just ".EXE" or you could end up with an unbootable system after the upgrade.   --G -- Carl Karcher, Waisman Computing Services, Waisman Center, UW-Madison24 --             karcher.nomorespam@waisman.wisc.edu     ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 16:26:42 -0000* From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>8 Subject: Re: Upgrade to OPEN VMS 7.3-1 - Patches needed?+ Message-ID: <b42k44$ds2@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>t  A "Carl Karcher" <karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu> wrote in messaged/ news:4MAR03.15193522@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu...c  J > Be sure you have a look at the release notes for VMS721_RENAME_OLD-V0200D > (http://ftp.digital.com.au/pub/ecoinfo/ecoinfo/880.htm) before youF > upgrade. Inspect SYS$COMMON:[SYSUPD]VMS$REMEDIAL_OLD_FILES.TXT (evenH > after you apply the patch) to be sure there are no file names that endH > in just ".EXE" or you could end up with an unbootable system after the
 > upgrade.  G I think if you go straight to 7.3-1 (rather than via 7.3), you'd be OK.n2 It wouldn't hurt to fix the file up though anyway.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 12:14:03 -0500 From: norm.raphael@metso.com8 Subject: Re: Upgrade to OPEN VMS 7.3-1 - Patches needed?? Message-ID: <OFDFD39A38.42F6B13B-ON85256CDF.005E7DD9@metso.com>a  / http://ftp.digital.com.au/pub/ecoinfo/a731.htmle  I There are a couple of articles on DSNlink you should read as well, if youn can,@ especially the OpenVMS V7.3-1 Upgrade Checklist.  There are some/ potentially serious gotchas coming from V7.2-1.r  K From:  johan.nordebrink@se.flextronics.com (Johan Nordebrink) on 03/04/2003t        05:58 AMu  H Please respond to johan.nordebrink@se.flextronics.com (Johan Nordebrink)   To:    Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com cc:,  7 Subject:    Upgrade to OPEN VMS 7.3-1 - Patches needed?     < I am planning to do an upgrade from OPEN VMS 7.2-1 to 7.3-1.  C Anyone know of some patches(VMS, TCPIP, DECnet IV) that I must also2 install?   Thank you in advance!e   /Johan   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Mar 2003 10:50:53 -0600e+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young). Subject: VCC_MAXSIZE3 Message-ID: <q9CImUJ8DRq2@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  2 	In looking at making an adjustment, we find this:  ' $ mcr sysgen help sys_param vcc_maxsizeu   Sys_Parameters  
   VCC_MAXSIZE   H        (Alpha only) The static system parameter VCC_MAXSIZE controls theF        size of the virtual I/O cache. VCC_MAXSIZE, which specifies the/        size in blocks, is 3,700,000 by default."   ---x  F 	3,700,000 is not the DEFAULT (unless from field install?).  Certainly 	not that on upgrade:g  & $ write sys$output f$getsyi("version") V7.3-1   $ !  $ mcr sysgen show vcc_maxsizee  O Parameter Name           Current    Default     Min.      Max.     Unit DynamicmO --------------           -------    -------    -------   -------   ---- ------- J VCC_MAXSIZE                  6400       6400         0    3700000 Blocks      > 	Because... this little AlphaStation at 7.3-1 is doing what it< 	is suppsed to be doing... i.e. using up to 1/2 Physical for 	XFC:"  
 $ show memory>@               System Memory Resources on  4-MAR-2003 11:44:47.01  L Physical Memory Usage (pages):     Total        Free      In Use    ModifiedL   Main Memory (128.00MB)           16384        1916       12205        2263                ^^^^^    >>>>--------^^^^^  B Extended File Cache  (Time of last reset: 24-FEB-2003 14:13:43.14)L   Allocated (MBytes)            5.72    Maximum size (MBytes)          64.00L                                                                        ^^^^^L                                                            >>>>--------^^^^^  L   Free (MBytes)                 0.00    Minimum size (MBytes)           3.12M   In use (MBytes)               5.72    Percentage Read I/Os              67%)M   Read hit rate                   95%   Write hit rate                     0%7  G 	So it appears the SYSGEN help wording needs to be reworded for 7.3-1+.pB 	Seems VCC_MAXSIZE is one of those mostly obsolete params (or fast 	heading there).   	What is the real deal?a   				Robi   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 13:10:06 -0500; From: "Brian Tillman" <Brian.Tillman@notnoone.notnohow.com> ! Subject: Re: VMS Backup solutionsn$ Message-ID: <3e64ebf1$1@news.si.com>  F >Use SDA> SHOW LAN/COUNT and look at the Octets Sent & Received on the9 >EWA1 device to get an idea of how much it is being used.l  F       -- EWA1 60-07 (SCA) Counters Information  4-MAR-2003 13:05:20 --  L Last receive          4-MAR 13:05:20    Last transmit         4-MAR 13:05:19L Octets received           1222258937    Octets sent                438169105L PDUs received               10413992    PDUs sent                    3469371L Mcast octets received      791716800    Mcast octets sent           88389632L Mcast PDUs received          7068900    Mcast PDUs sent               690544L Unavail user buffer                0    Last start attempt              NoneL Last start done      13-FEB 16:08:12    Last start failed               None   compared to:  F       -- EZA1 60-07 (SCA) Counters Information  4-MAR-2003 13:06:14 --  L Last receive                    None    Last transmit         4-MAR 13:06:13L Octets received                    0    Octets sent                 69402880L PDUs received                      0    PDUs sent                     542210L Mcast octets received              0    Mcast octets sent           69402880L Mcast PDUs received                0    Mcast PDUs sent               542210L Unavail user buffer                0    Last start attempt              NoneL Last start done      13-FEB 15:59:54    Last start failed               None   and:  F       -- FQA1 60-07 (SCA) Counters Information  4-MAR-2003 13:06:46 --  L Last receive          4-MAR 13:06:46    Last transmit         4-MAR 13:06:45L Octets received            943369978    Octets sent                189101313L PDUs received                8263738    PDUs sent                    1592363L Mcast octets received      791834288    Mcast octets sent           93425670L Mcast PDUs received          7069949    Mcast PDUs sent               692042L Unavail user buffer                0    Last start attempt              NoneL Last start done      13-FEB 16:00:03    Last start failed               None  L So, the Nemonix board has sent/received quite a bit more SCA trafic than the FDDI board.r -- uI Brian Tillman         Internet: Brian.Tillman at smiths-aerospace dot come5 Smiths Aerospace  Addresses modified to prevent SPAM.t@ 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS Replace "at" with "@", "dot" with "." Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991o8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Mar 2003 12:39:17 -0600 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)l! Subject: Re: VMS Backup solutionsh3 Message-ID: <$H6VHoO5uO2d@eisner.encompasserve.org>   X In article <3E6393A6.2070102@nospamn.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy writes:E >>    How many successful recoveries have you had despite a bad tape?i >> H > 4 > Well every server thats running is an example of a& > sucessfull recovery. Thats over 120.  A    That's not what I asked.  How many times have you been able toeD    recover data from a tape despite the fact that that tape was bad?  G    Not from aonther tape, not from a similar system, from the bad tape.-   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Mar 2003 14:37:22 GMTn- From: djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall) : Subject: Re: Wow - OpenVMS Job Advert in UK Computer Press5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-tcvTbVOxYQ8d@localhost>r  E On Mon, 3 Mar 2003 13:59:13 UTC, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) p wrote:  z > In article <ct$XpW$Zbsug@eisner.encompasserve.org>, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) writes:c > > In article <v5ukph49n5mvbf@corp.supernews.com>, Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com> writes:, > >> Tim Llewellyn wrote:X > >> i > >>> Simon Clubley wrote: > >>>h > >>> >rL > >>> >Actually, I'm more interested in knowing what the VMS market is like  > >>> >in the North... :-) > >>>e > >>>wK > >>> There is a VMS Basic Programmer position in West Yorks that has been  8 > >>> knocking around on jobserve for months and months. > >> eG > >> West Yorkshire is *not* the North.  I'd say the North begins northrF > >> of Perth and Dundee.  So if Simon really is looking for somethingG > >> in the North (Inverness ? Ullapool ?  Dounray ? :-), I don't thinko# > >> he's going to get many offers.n > >> i > > H > > I'm in North Yorkshire, in the general area of York, and I've always) > > considered myself to be in the North.l > >  > D > It's been a long time since I looked at Jobserve, but I found thatG > they would classify anything in Yorkshire as being in the North East.  > E > If asked in another context, I would say that the North East covers ? > the area between Middlesborough and the border with Scotland.w  , Coming from Co. Durham, I'd agree with that.   -- d Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Mar 2003 08:37:24 -0800m1 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)o! Subject: Re: [DFG] Some questionsa= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0303040837.2f4ae26b@posting.google.com>h  i peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER) wrote in message news:<PoX5a.50966$Rb4.707615@news.chello.at>...bJ > The posting with the possible MAIL problem in DEFRAG V2.7 reminded me of+ > some other problems I've seen with DEFRAGa  , Engineering provided the following response: ---t     Hi, 2     Following are the answers to the queries asked  J     >>1) DEFRAG always translates Filenames (Option File, Logfile, ...) atE     >>Script define time to their real physical names. I find it very2I     >>annoying to have logicals in VMS and can't use the flexibility theyVN     >>provide because of this obvious misbehaviour of DEFRAG (Vx.y up to V2.7)  C     The logical name translation is done considering the following:l  I     1) DFO expands the filenames supplied with /LOG, /PROLOGUE, /Epilogue N     to complete file specification using the user default. This allows user toJ     specify the value for the qualifier, which are relative to the default     directory.  K     2) To ensure that the LOG files are not written in the system directorytH     if the full file spec has not been supplied (Defrag engine runs as a,     detached process in the system context).  J     3) To ensure that the logicals defined in the process context are alsoK     translated and passed to the defrag engine. File specifications must beaJ     expanded to fill in missing RMS fields and resolve potentially private4     logical names at the time the script is created.  H     This translation of logicals can be avoided by defining the logicals     with concealed attribute.i  J     The issues of translating the logicals at the creation time / run time     has its pros and cons:  F     1) The requested changes would create problems with filespecs thatL     don't work at run time. There will also be compatibility issues with the:     customers comfortable with the current implementation.  >     2) This would be different than the way file specificationN     interpretation in DCL works for other commands. For example the DCL SUBMIT
      command.,  B     >>2) I don't really understand why the DEFRAGger needs so manyI     >>privileges (BYPASS, CMKRNL, DETACH, EXQUOTA, NETMBX, SHARE, SYSGBL,.L     >> SYSLCK,SYSPRV,TMPMBX, and WORLD) for even showing scripts (especiallyJ     >>BYPASS, which I've haven't set as /DEFPRIV of my own user). It is okI     >>that the defragging process itself might need them, but I think thesL     >>DEFRAG SHOW/NOVOLUME,DEFRAG VOLUME/SCRIPT and DEFRAG MODIFY should not     >>need that much of them.A  H     Right now this is a restriction. We are doing some tests in our labs%     here and we will get back to you.m  B     >> 3) Opening (and Closing) the Full Volume Map (REPORT Volume     >>Fragmentation)H     >>in DFG$DW.EXE brings every time 3 lines with the following WarningI     >>X Toolkit Warning: Null child passed to XtUnmanageChildren(at open)0J     >>X Toolkit Warning: null child passed to XtManageChildren  (at close);     >> I don't see real errors, only this annoying lines...-  I     Can you please provide us some more data like on which OS version andoK     DFO version this problem is seen. We will also look into this issue and      will get back to you.   G     >>4) Installing DEFRAG creates every time (regardless if it alreadyIC     >>exists) the file DFG$DATABASE:DFG$MAIL.DIS with only one line0     >>"nodename::installuser".J     >>Despite the fact, that it should not create what already exists (andM     >>despite the fact, that one can override the content of said file duringzL     installation) it is annoying that this mailaddress contains the nodenameM     >>which might lead to an undeliverable mail (eg.when the installnode of ad#     >>cluster is temporarily down).k  (     Following is what I am understandingJ     You don't want a new .dis file to be created when there is one alreadyK     existing.If this is correct, we will rectify this, otherwise please let &     us know what actually you require.  J     >>5) I don't know the current status (because I no longer use HSM) butN     many months ago it was neccessary to force the DEFRAGger to _not_ unshelve?     >>files.I did it with the PROLOGUE Command File containing: F     >>$ SET PROCESS/NOAUTO_UNSHELVE/IDENT='F$GETJPI (0, "MASTER_PID")'     >>$ SHOW ERROR#     >>$ DEFRAG SHOW DFG$DISK/VOLUME C     >>It might be fixed now, but maybe it is not. Maybe someone can      >> test/comment.  5     We will look into this issue and get back to you.z       Thanks and Regards
     Venkat     (DFO Engineering)u   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 14:53:35 +0000i From: Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net>S? Subject: Re: [OT] Wow - OpenVMS Job Advert in UK Computer Pressu) Message-ID: <3E64BDEF.78324DEE@Omond.net>e   Dave Weatherall wrote:  F > On Mon, 3 Mar 2003 13:59:13 UTC, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) > wrote: > | > > In article <ct$XpW$Zbsug@eisner.encompasserve.org>, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) writes:e > > > In article <v5ukph49n5mvbf@corp.supernews.com>, Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com> writes:a > > >> Tim Llewellyn wrote:t > > >> > > >>> Simon Clubley wrote: > > >>>a	 > > >>> > M > > >>> >Actually, I'm more interested in knowing what the VMS market is likej > > >>> >in the North... :-) > > >>>  > > >>>.L > > >>> There is a VMS Basic Programmer position in West Yorks that has been: > > >>> knocking around on jobserve for months and months. > > >>I > > >> West Yorkshire is *not* the North.  I'd say the North begins north H > > >> of Perth and Dundee.  So if Simon really is looking for somethingI > > >> in the North (Inverness ? Ullapool ?  Dounray ? :-), I don't think-% > > >> he's going to get many offers.u > > >> > > >0J > > > I'm in North Yorkshire, in the general area of York, and I've always+ > > > considered myself to be in the North.s > > >  > >BF > > It's been a long time since I looked at Jobserve, but I found thatI > > they would classify anything in Yorkshire as being in the North East.n > >dG > > If asked in another context, I would say that the North East coverseA > > the area between Middlesborough and the border with Scotland.l > . > Coming from Co. Durham, I'd agree with that.  
 *sigh* :-)  = Well, coming from considerably further north than Co. Durham, 0 (Edinburgh to be precise), I'd tend to disagree.  @ I *do* wish the English would say "North East England" if that's what they mean ;-)  	 Roy Omonda Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.124 ************************otron.ca] & > Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 1:32 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com A > Subject: Re: Editor wars - Was: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?  >  > ins+Report" ldesc="SportsLine%27s+Penguins+report+page+features+an+exclusive+column+with+links+to+Pittsburgh%27s+roster%2C+depth+chart%2C+schedule+and+other+resources.">
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