1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 06 Mar 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 127       Contents:- $ENQ, blocking/completion AST, race condition  Re: %UAF-E-PWDSYNTAX" Announcing Fall 2002 VMS SIG tapes? Announcing HVD and LVD Converters now supported on AlphaServers 6 Re: Anyone use a Compaq 20/40 dlt tape drive in a vax?P Arguing about editors (was Re: EDT and command tables have invalid format (was: $ Can't browse Samba shares on OpenVMS Carly's feedback link  Re: Carly's feedback link  Re: CLI question for HP reps Re: CLI question for HP reps Re: CLI question for HP reps+ DIFFERENT BLOCKSIZE FOR BACKUP AND RESTORE? 0 Do you have a question?  DECUServe is available.4 Re: Do you have a question?  DECUServe is available.4 Re: Do you have a question?  DECUServe is available.6 Re: Editor wars - Was: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?6 Re: Editor wars - Was: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?6 Re: Editor wars - Was: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?6 Re: Editor wars - Was: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?6 Re: Editor wars - Was: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?6 Re: Editor wars - Was: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?6 Re: Editor wars - Was: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?6 Re: Editor wars - Was: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?6 Re: Editor wars - Was: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ? RE: Fibre Channel and SCS  Re: Fibre Channel and SCS & Re: hobbiest RDB/Sql*Services security; Re: hobbiest RDB/Sql*Services security (unrelated question) @ Re: How Can a trailing Blank Page be stopped via VMS print Queue% hp DECforms V3.3 Product Announcement / Re: Linus trashes Itanium - he's scared of VMS! B Maximum Record Size Error, -RMS-F-MRS, invalid maximum record sizeF Re: Maximum Record Size Error, -RMS-F-MRS, invalid maximum record size= Moving from Multinet to TCP/IP Services (LAT/NTY/TNA devices)  Re: MS Virus Re: MS Virus Re: MS Virus Re: MS VirusP Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marveland Alpha Retai Re: oracle benchmarks on VMS- OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants - OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 1 Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 1 Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 1 Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants * OT Re: National Moratorium to Stop the War. Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Stop the War. Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Stop the War. Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Stop the War. Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Stop the War. Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Stop the War. Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Stop the War, Re: OT:  National Moratorium to Stop the War, Re: OT:  National Moratorium to Stop the WarD Press Release - PerfCap Announces the release of its latest Software Re: Questions on SSH for VMS Re: Questions on SSH for VMS Re: Questions on SSH for VMS Recent posts I have made, Re: running autogen on alternate system disk' Samba params.c missing question OpenVMS 3 Re: SCSI cluster disk thrashing between connections 3 Re: SCSI cluster disk thrashing between connections 7 Re: strange behaviour of SET ENVIRONMENT/NODE in SYSMAN  Re: unix Re: unix Re: unix/ Re: Upgrade to OPEN VMS 7.3-1 - Patches needed? / Re: Upgrade to OPEN VMS 7.3-1 - Patches needed? / Re: Upgrade to OPEN VMS 7.3-1 - Patches needed? / Re: Upgrade to OPEN VMS 7.3-1 - Patches needed? / Re: Upgrade to OPEN VMS 7.3-1 - Patches needed? / Re: Upgrade to OPEN VMS 7.3-1 - Patches needed? / Re: Upgrade to OPEN VMS 7.3-1 - Patches needed? - VAXstation 4000 VLC VMS 5.5-2 Boot Parameters  Re: VMS Backup solutions Re: VMS Backup solutions Re: VMS Backup solutions Re: VMS Backup solutions RE: VMS Backup solutions Re: VMS Backup solutions RE: VMS Backup solutions VMS Question???  RE: VMS Question???  Re: VMS Question???  RE: VMS Question???  Re: VMS Question???  Re: VMSTAR question  Re: [OT}:to Sue   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 5 Mar 2003 10:25:04 -0800 " From: cstranslations@msn.com (Joe)6 Subject: $ENQ, blocking/completion AST, race condition= Message-ID: <d56d1c2d.0303051025.4b63e6de@posting.google.com>   3 I'm guessing the answer is yes but I'll ask anyway.   D Process 1 calls $ENQ and specifies both blocking and completion ast., Process 2 calls $ENQ (on the same resource).  / Assume all that good race condition type stuff.       E Q: Is it with-in the realm of possibility that process 1 will receive 7 the blocking ast before it receives the completion ast?   C DECThreads are not being used - if that affects/simplifies anything : (I'm not going to travel that learning curve mid-project).   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 14:06:20 -0500; From: "Brian Tillman" <Brian.Tillman@notnoone.notnohow.com>  Subject: Re: %UAF-E-PWDSYNTAX " Message-ID: <3e664a9c@news.si.com>  J >I've made MCR AUTHORIZE MODIFY username /PASSWORD=password in a procedureI >and found, that invalid passwort-characters produce  an %UAF-E-PWDSYNTAX > >error message, but no error status code and no ON ERROR trap.  ! Yes, that's the current behavior.    >Anyone knows a reason ?  2 Because AUTHORIZE doesn't pass errors back to DCL. --  I Brian Tillman         Internet: Brian.Tillman at smiths-aerospace dot com 5 Smiths Aerospace  Addresses modified to prevent SPAM. @ 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS Replace "at" with "@", "dot" with "." Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991 8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 20:03:04 -0500 ' From: Glenn Everhart <Everhart@gce.com> + Subject: Announcing Fall 2002 VMS SIG tapes & Message-ID: <3E669E48.8050607@gce.com>   Folks - N This is to announce that the initial few copies of the Fall 2002 VMS SIG tapesN have been shipped, so they should begin appearing on the net sometime soon andK those on the tree can as usual contact Dar Schumann (darnkatt@feist.com) to % get the location where to get copies.   R A few of the more distant copies are still to be sent but should be in a few days.  Q If you think you should be getting copies from the tree and are having difficulty R please write me at Everhart@gce.com and let me know, and include please what groupT you are affiliated with and your address (email and snail-mail please.) The materialT has been sent to Encompass and Encompasserve also. It is a rather full CD (just likeO the past several) of freely distributable material, the bulk of it VMS specific  but some of general interest.   & Thanks to all who have been authors...   Glenn Everhart Everhart@gce.com    F The following is the abstract (apart from the directory and tools area which is there too.)     Fall 2002 VMS / L&T SIG Tape ---- ---- ---   --- --- ----   [VMSLT02B...] Directory Tree ------------- --------- ----  H [.GCE]          Fragmentation avoider, IDEZR - allow use of dumb or non-5                          512-block devices, vd driver D [.GNU]          Gnu utils including gnu C 3.2 which may build in vmsF [.LTSIG]        Old '87 stuff including LBL Tools last release for VMSG [.MOREAU]       combat sim, midi editor, phone/addr/todo database for X D [.NET]          Large collection including WINE windows emu, crypto,E                  p2p systems, openAFS src, ms word readers, much more G [.NT]           A few bits of NT advice, and virtual disk for NT in src 2 [.OPENOFFICE]   Latest src for MS Office lookalike3 [.PERL]         Perl V5.8 which builds for VMS also F [.SAMBA]        Share out, or read, MS Windows type shares for disk orK                          printer. VMS port of very recent vers., and latest                           srcH [.SEC]          Some security notes including some bits on how to insertN                          hooks into unix kernels to hook functions in loadable4                          modules and in executables.H [.TK]           DCL template expander, fast file delete, FTP mirror, GnuM                          AWK, VMS search with wildcards etc., "become another K                          user" util, r/w MSDOS floppies, show known DECnet+ G                          links, guess passwords, virtual disk, generate A                          .CLD for any verb, idle terminal monitor I [.VU]           Many VMS things. Includes ascii->html, get all usernames, I                          flash plugin, Alpha and Vax PL/I compilers, many H                          VT100 display hacks, PC emulator BOCHS for VMS,E                          CDrecord for VMS, CVS for VMS, CURL for VMS, J                          DFU, LD, Eiffel compilers, Python compiler, ExpatI                          database, search utilities, web site indexer and J                          search systems, image editors, password guessers,F                          mailbox controls, Mozilla browser (latest VMSJ                          vers), partial MYSQL ports, patched MX free vers,F                          mail handler, openSSL, portability libraries,J                          SIMH emulator to emulate Vax or pdp11 (or severalF                          more) on other systems, secure tunnel, TCL/TKH                          for VMS, word processor (ted), Mac emulator (ifN                          you have mac roms), Zmenu, Zlib (compression library)&                          and much moreF [.WWW]          WASD HTTP server for VMS and several plugins including1                          MIME-aware mail utility.    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Mar 2003 07:15:18 -0800 1 From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski) H Subject: Announcing HVD and LVD Converters now supported on AlphaServers= Message-ID: <857e9e41.0303050715.7d1b484a@posting.google.com>   3 HVD to LVD Converters now supported on AlphaServers  From: 	Lorusso, Paul    B I am pleased to announce that 3X-DWZCV-BA and 3X-DWZCV-CA, 1 and 2F port HVD (High Voltage Differential) to LVD (Low Voltage Differential)? Converters are now available for order, having been released on E February 15, 2003.  These converter options are both packaged in a 1U @ rack mount enclosure compatible with most standard rack and railC configurations.  These converters have a number of uses and in some D cases provide an important bridge technology for use in a variety ofA AlphaServer Configurations that require connection to LVD devices C (such as Hard Disk Drive Shelves, Tapes, and Libraries), but may be B constrained by Configuration, Operating System, Legacy Platform or Host Bus Adapter limitations.   F In short, these devices allow connection of LVD devices to an HVD Host? Bus Adapter (like 3X-KZPBA-CC and its predecessor, KZPBA-CB), a > combination that is normally incompatible due to the differentB signaling voltage levels used in HVD vs.. LVD technologies.  TheseF converters will find use in many Tru64 based TELCO shared applicationsD which were formerly based on HVD StorageWorks 1 (BA356) Low End SCSIE Clusters.  The disks and shelves used in these configurations will be > formally discontinued on 3/31/03, and if it is not possible to? immediately migrate to the recently announced native LVD shared D support offered through 3X-KZPEA-DB on Tru64 V5.1b, these convertersF will allow for either shared or direct attach of LVD Universal ShelvesC (Models 4314/4354) and drives.  Thus, if migration to the requisite F minimum level of Tru64 UNIX is not possible, or if the in platform OEMA configuration is constrained, the converters may alternatively be E used.   In addition, these converters will become the primary enabler ? for OpenVMS SCSI clusters, as shared support for 3X-KZPEA-DB is ? limited to Tru64 UNIX, and thus 3X-KZPBA-CC must continue to be  employed in these applications.   D Next, there are some earlier Legacy AlphaServer platforms, (like theA GS140/GS60E series ) which, due to Console Firmware or Life Cycle C timing constraints were never able to qualify an LVD adapter of any = kind.  For these platforms, the ability to add StorageWorks 1 E disk/shelf storage after the 3/3/1/03 DISC date, or to upgrade to any A modern SCSI LVD tape or Library device in either shared or direct F attach mode would be virtually impossible.  Once again, the convertersC will provide important connectivity infrastructure to fulfill these 
 requirements.   A I am including a schematic representation of how a typical shared F configuration might be assembled,   along with the requisite cable andD terminator parts that are required to connect such a configuration. F As noted, direct attach, non shared configurations may not require all of the indicated components.  > If you have any questions regarding these options or need moreC information around their use, please do not hesitate to contact me.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 14:20:28 -0500; From: "Brian Tillman" <Brian.Tillman@notnoone.notnohow.com> ? Subject: Re: Anyone use a Compaq 20/40 dlt tape drive in a vax? $ Message-ID: <3e664dec$1@news.si.com>   Along the same lines...   G I have a DLT4000 currently attached to an HSD30.  On the VAX, the drive D shows up as a TZ01.  It seems to work, although I realize it's not aG supported configuration, at least the firmware docs for the HSD seem to  indicate that.  K I have another drive, a DLT2000 (effectively a TZ87), that I'd like to use. E I daisy-chained it from the DLT4000 and it, too, showed up as a TZ01. K However, neither would work reliably.  I'd get fatal controller errors and, H once the DLT2000 hung and trying to reset the HSD caused a system crash.H I'm pretty sure the DLT2000 is a working device, since it was on another platform and working correctly  H I have attached to the SCSI bus on the VAX (KZQSA), a StorageWorks shelfK containing two 8mm drives.  Could I daisy-chain the DLT2000 from the shelf? J I'm thinking that if the device is directly attached to the VAX instead ofG via the HSD, it might work more reliably.  I'm running OpenVMS VAX V7.2  --  I Brian Tillman         Internet: Brian.Tillman at smiths-aerospace dot com 5 Smiths Aerospace  Addresses modified to prevent SPAM. @ 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS Replace "at" with "@", "dot" with "." Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991 8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Mar 2003 07:01:37 -0800 . From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)Y Subject: Arguing about editors (was Re: EDT and command tables have invalid format (was:  = Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0303050701.70b833d8@posting.google.com>   e Paddy O'Brien <paddy.o'brien@tg.nsw.gov.au> wrote in message news:<3E646E18.2070607@tg.nsw.gov.au>...  > Hoff Hoffman wrote: 	 > [snips]  > I > >   I'm not particularly familiar with that EDT command syntax, and EDT I > >   has not seen particular work in eons.  You've defined the DO key to J > >   some sort of SPAWN, obviously.  (I can't replicate the SPAWN error.) > > : >   Whoa, don't get into an argument with Alan Feldman :-) >  >  >   Regards, Paddy    E Well, I get very frustrated when people misunderstand my posts. Maybe . I wasn't being clear enough (I thought I was).  D I get especially "annoyed" when I make it clear FROM THE OUTSET thatE SHIFT LEFT and SHIFT RIGHT are not the same as having SET NOTRUNCATE. D They are not even a good workaround for it. Yet, at least one posterC (maybe two or three, I'd have to check) said ~"Well, just use SHIFT C LEFT and SHIFT RIGHT!~" (~" = approx. quote) as if I had never said   they were not a good substitute.  D   AUUUUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! :-)  C And then there's the "Well, you can write a TPU program!" response. E Yeah, well I've already fixed what little I don't like about EDT, and F I can do 95%-plus of my daily editing faster with EDT, so why should IE bother? I am not fluent in TPU so there'd have to be a good reason to F bother with it. I am glad it's there for times when I need it, but for all other editing I prefer EDT.   % Is any of this so hard to understand?   C I do, however, greatly appreciate people's code to help me make EVE  more efficient. Thank you all!  E BTW, why did you quote Hoff's response which has almost nothing to do  with any of this?    [...]    Disclaimer: JMNSHO Alan E. Feldman    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Mar 2003 11:23:49 -0800 $ From: john_20_28_2000@yahoo.com (jm)- Subject: Can't browse Samba shares on OpenVMS = Message-ID: <c67e4bdd.0303051123.6ef4c178@posting.google.com>   # OpenVMS 7.2-1 TCPIP 5.x Samba 2.2.7   D Finally joined the domain, but now I can't see any shares.  Smb.confF looks fine and practically mirrors its Linux counterpart.  Security is working.  F The computer comes up in Network Neighborhood and via UNC (most of theD time), but the shares aren't there.  I have researched to no avail.  Thanks for any help.  ? Turning up the debug options to -d8 caused the alpha machine to  reboot.    [2003/03/05 14:19:31, 0]7 DISK$SWAP:[JYC.SAMBA.SAMBA-2_2_7A.SOURCE.PARAM]PARAMS.C  ;2:(544)A   params.c:OpenConfFile() - Unable to open configuration file "":          error 0  [2003/03/05 14:19:40, 0]7 DISK$SWAP:[JYC.SAMBA.SAMBA-2_2_7A.SOURCE.LIB]UTIL_SOCK. 
 C;2:(1020)7   getpeername failed. Error was socket is not connected  [2003/03/05 14:19:40, 0]7 DISK$SWAP:[JYC.SAMBA.SAMBA-2_2_7A.SOURCE.LIB]ACCESS.C;1  :(331) [2003/03/05 14:19:40, 0]7 DISK$SWAP:[JYC.SAMBA.SAMBA-2_2_7A.SOURCE.LIB]UTIL_SOCK. 
 C;2:(1020)7   getpeername failed. Error was socket is not connected #   Denied connection from  (0.0.0.0)  [2003/03/05 14:19:40, 0]7 DISK$SWAP:[JYC.SAMBA.SAMBA-2_2_7A.SOURCE.LIB]UTIL_SOCK. 	 C;2:(507) 7   write_socket_data: write failure. Error = broken pipe  [2003/03/05 14:19:40, 0]7 DISK$SWAP:[JYC.SAMBA.SAMBA-2_2_7A.SOURCE.LIB]UTIL_SOCK. 	 C;2:(531) F   write_socket: Error writing 5 bytes to socket 3: ERRNO = broken pipe [2003/03/05 14:19:40, 0]7 DISK$SWAP:[JYC.SAMBA.SAMBA-2_2_7A.SOURCE.LIB]UTIL_SOCK. 	 C;2:(711) 4   Error writing 5 bytes to client. -1. (broken pipe)   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 18:24:42 -0800$ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> Subject: Carly's feedback link0 Message-ID: <01C2E344.94DC1DD0@sulfer.icius.com>  0 I just found this page, entitled "e-mail carly":  : http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/execteam/email/fiorina/index.html  F "If you have any ideas or suggestions on how Hewlett-Packard can serve> you better, please e-mail them to me by using the form below."  G Since she's asking, I think I'll mention VMS marketing to her. I'm also C curious why hp seems to have a thing against capital letters, since G they're even spelling her name with a lower case "c". Maybe they've run ? out? Perhaps we should have a whip round to buy them some more.    Shane   >  #####   -----------------------------------------------------? #-O-O-# | Arthur: "It's times like this I wish I'd listened   | ? #  L  # | to what my Mother used to say." Ford: Why, what did | ?  #===#  | she say?" Arthur: "I don't know, I didn't listen."  | >   ###    -----------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 21:05:59 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> " Subject: Re: Carly's feedback link' Message-ID: <3E66BB17.D153BCA7@fsi.net>   " The text of a message I just sent:  C There is an extremely great, extremely urgent need to advertise VMS E until it becomes as much second nature as "Winston tastes good like a E ..." I'm sure you can finish that even though cigarette ads have been B taboo on TV and radio for decades. VMS needs to be equally as well known.  H In this day and age of terrorism, hackers and crackers, the security andF reliability of VMS may be our only defense against wholesale corporate	 sabotage.   G I have at least a dozen TV ads scripted and ready to shoot. I also have C print media ads that can be made camera ready on very short notice.   G VMS was once second only to IBM's MVS in the corporate world. Today, it E is all but a memory. VMS is tremendously profitable as you well know. F Now is the time to tap that profit-center and raise VMS from the ashes of its former life.   @ With the death of Alpha prior to the merger, that won't be easy.H Promises like "bet your business on Alpha", have been repeatedly broken.E Just mentioning "Compaq" in a sales presentation is enough to get one @ thrown out of prospective client site. Just thinking "Alpha" can endanger the sale.  F I can help. Please e-mail me to arrange a meeting at your convenience.   David J Dachtera   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 12:32:49 -07006 From: "Michael D. Ober" <obermd-@-alum-mit-edu-nospam>% Subject: Re: CLI question for HP reps 0 Message-ID: <Bhs9a.20$Rm1.29572@news.uswest.net>  H That's why unix tools are documented.  To resolve this problem, RTFM and write the conversion file.  
 Mike Ober.  H "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:xsNnUe9MiX2t@eisner.encompasserve.org... L > In article <1030305050721.26948C@Ives.egh.com>, John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> writes:  > > A > > For each new unix tool (e.g, GPG or wgrep or whatever), write A > > the mapping table (a text file) describing the mapping in the  > > standardized syntax. > G >    There's the problem.  Figuring out what -r stands for on each tool  >    is time consuming.  >    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Mar 2003 14:18:51 -0600 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) % Subject: Re: CLI question for HP reps 3 Message-ID: <JRrVVISv$Ywe@eisner.encompasserve.org>   i In article <Bhs9a.20$Rm1.29572@news.uswest.net>, "Michael D. Ober" <obermd-@-alum-mit-edu-nospam> writes: J > That's why unix tools are documented.  To resolve this problem, RTFM and > write the conversion file. > H >>    There's the problem.  Figuring out what -r stands for on each tool >>    is time consuming.  >    That doesn't solve the problem.  It's still time consuming.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 17:28:19 -07006 From: "Michael D. Ober" <obermd-@-alum-mit-edu-nospam>% Subject: Re: CLI question for HP reps 2 Message-ID: <VCw9a.528$vM1.101887@news.uswest.net>  G You only need to do this once for each utility you want to convert.  If 9 you're too lazy to do this, don't use the unix utilities.    Mike.   H "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:JRrVVISv$Ywe@eisner.encompasserve.org... D > In article <Bhs9a.20$Rm1.29572@news.uswest.net>, "Michael D. Ober"& <obermd-@-alum-mit-edu-nospam> writes:L > > That's why unix tools are documented.  To resolve this problem, RTFM and > > write the conversion file. > > J > >>    There's the problem.  Figuring out what -r stands for on each tool > >>    is time consuming. > @ >    That doesn't solve the problem.  It's still time consuming. >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 11:46:46 +0800 ) From: Kiasu Surfer <verykiasu@hotpop.com> 4 Subject: DIFFERENT BLOCKSIZE FOR BACKUP AND RESTORE?8 Message-ID: <8rgd6v0e4afpegpahubqm73fhjvhqrknhr@4ax.com>  O I wonder if the different blocksize used for backup and restore would cause any % data integrity problem after restore?   N I am considering using BLOCKSIZE of 61440 for my DLT IV tape as recommended byE Compaq FAQ web, but presently all my backup using BLOCKSIZE of 32256.   P If i were to change restore scripts, would restoration of the older backup tapesL be any problem? (OVMS 7.1 on Alpha, backup using /NOCRC /GROUP=0 parameters)   Thanks in advance. Regards,  	 Kevin Lai    **************** ** SPAM BLOCK ** ****************? REPLACE "verykiasu" with "iamverykiasu" at verykiasu@hotpop.com    ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 20:20:15 -0700' From: "Dale E. Coy" <dalecoy@spinn.net> 9 Subject: Do you have a question?  DECUServe is available. / Message-ID: <v6dfjhb2ns0off@corp.supernews.com>   H Sixteen years ago, DECUS US Chapter started the online DECUServe system.K The objective was to support mostly-technical online discussions and mutual I support for hardware and software of interest to DECUS members.  A second B objective was to provide a friendly community atmosphere for other discussion topics.  E DECUServe still provides those services, and more.  Technical content I includes over 50 technical conferences (200,000 notes), has never lost an I answer, and includes the archives of Larry Kilgallen's Pageswapper system C and the OA SIG's OASIS system.  Technical quality (signal) is high, J responses to new questions are usually rapid, and unwanted off-topic stuff (noise) is notably absent.  D In 1987, the community technical interests emphasized PDP-11 and VAXI hardware, associated operating systems, and application software.  All of ? that is still available.  Today, about half the discussions are L OpenVMS-centric, and a lot of other interests (Security, WWW, PCs of variousJ flavors, Windows, UNIX, various hobbies and interests...) have been added.  I WHY SHOULD YOU CARE?  Because those resources are available to you in two  different ways:   G VIA THE WEB:  If you're hunting an answer that's already in 16 years of L technical archives, 35 of DECUServe's technical conferences can be read (and! SEARCHED)  at   www.decuserve.org   E The web site also has one-click access to the OpenVMS FAQ, and to the G OpenVMS Patch List.  However, this is all read-only.  To be able to ASK @ questions, and for other features, log in to DECUServe directly.  E VIA TELNET:  DECUServe effectively uses DEC Notes as its conferencing J system, and most VMS folks find the character-cell interface easy to use -H perhaps after a short tour through the DECUServe Users Guide (on the webL site).  Telnet is required - perhaps by a VT-100-style emulator, or by using/ the Java applet available through the web site.   I To sign up:  just Telnet to decuserve.org, use username REGISTRATION, and B follow the bouncing ball.  It's nice if you sign up using accurateJ information, and DECUServe won't sell it to anybody.  Oh - there's no fee,6 and no requirement to be a member of any organization.  K Doing that gets you a regular account on an OpenVMS system that is superbly L managed by volunteers.   You'll be able to use the DEC Notes software to askL questions (and help the community with your answers).  DEC Notes provides an2 "Unseen Map" to track notes you have already read.  H DECUServe provides a reasonably full set of OpenVMS software, as well asI MultiNet and PMDF.  You get an email account that benefits from excellent L inbound filtering.  You can set up a personal web page(s).  Other things tooL numerous to mention, in a friendly environment.  And many folks on DECUServeF find that it's beneficial to have a VMS account on "another" system to: occasionally facilitate testing on their "regular" system.  L I apologize for the lengthy message - and I'll be happy to answer questions,C or just have you join us on DECUServe.  You can send email to me as ( coy@decuserve.org, or dalecoy@spinn.net.   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Mar 2003 21:44:27 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) = Subject: Re: Do you have a question?  DECUServe is available. 3 Message-ID: <C1iELSXXqs4w@eisner.encompasserve.org>   Y In article <v6dfjhb2ns0off@corp.supernews.com>, "Dale E. Coy" <dalecoy@spinn.net> writes: J > Sixteen years ago, DECUS US Chapter started the online DECUServe system.M > The objective was to support mostly-technical online discussions and mutual K > support for hardware and software of interest to DECUS members.  A second D > objective was to provide a friendly community atmosphere for other > discussion topics. > G > DECUServe still provides those services, and more.  Technical content K > includes over 50 technical conferences (200,000 notes), has never lost an K > answer, and includes the archives of Larry Kilgallen's Pageswapper system E > and the OA SIG's OASIS system.  Technical quality (signal) is high, L > responses to new questions are usually rapid, and unwanted off-topic stuff > (noise) is notably absent. > F > In 1987, the community technical interests emphasized PDP-11 and VAXK > hardware, associated operating systems, and application software.  All of A > that is still available.  Today, about half the discussions are N > OpenVMS-centric, and a lot of other interests (Security, WWW, PCs of variousL > flavors, Windows, UNIX, various hobbies and interests...) have been added. > K > WHY SHOULD YOU CARE?  Because those resources are available to you in two  > different ways:  > I > VIA THE WEB:  If you're hunting an answer that's already in 16 years of N > technical archives, 35 of DECUServe's technical conferences can be read (and# > SEARCHED)  at   www.decuserve.org  > G > The web site also has one-click access to the OpenVMS FAQ, and to the I > OpenVMS Patch List.  However, this is all read-only.  To be able to ASK B > questions, and for other features, log in to DECUServe directly. > G > VIA TELNET:  DECUServe effectively uses DEC Notes as its conferencing L > system, and most VMS folks find the character-cell interface easy to use -J > perhaps after a short tour through the DECUServe Users Guide (on the webN > site).  Telnet is required - perhaps by a VT-100-style emulator, or by using1 > the Java applet available through the web site.  > K > To sign up:  just Telnet to decuserve.org, use username REGISTRATION, and D > follow the bouncing ball.  It's nice if you sign up using accurateL > information, and DECUServe won't sell it to anybody.  Oh - there's no fee,8 > and no requirement to be a member of any organization. > M > Doing that gets you a regular account on an OpenVMS system that is superbly N > managed by volunteers.   You'll be able to use the DEC Notes software to askN > questions (and help the community with your answers).  DEC Notes provides an4 > "Unseen Map" to track notes you have already read. > J > DECUServe provides a reasonably full set of OpenVMS software, as well asK > MultiNet and PMDF.  You get an email account that benefits from excellent N > inbound filtering.  You can set up a personal web page(s).  Other things tooN > numerous to mention, in a friendly environment.  And many folks on DECUServeH > find that it's beneficial to have a VMS account on "another" system to< > occasionally facilitate testing on their "regular" system. > N > I apologize for the lengthy message - and I'll be happy to answer questions,E > or just have you join us on DECUServe.  You can send email to me as * > coy@decuserve.org, or dalecoy@spinn.net. >  >  >  --  N ==============================================================================I The Boulder Pledge: "Under no circumstances will I ever purchase anything J      offered to me as the result of an unsolicited email message. Nor willI      I forward chain letters, petitions, mass mailings, or virus warnings H      to large numbers of others. This is my contribution to the survival      of the online community."N ==============================================================================   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Mar 2003 21:51:27 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) = Subject: Re: Do you have a question?  DECUServe is available. 3 Message-ID: <Zo0nmP$srE7t@eisner.encompasserve.org>   Y In article <v6dfjhb2ns0off@corp.supernews.com>, "Dale E. Coy" <dalecoy@spinn.net> writes: J > Sixteen years ago, DECUS US Chapter started the online DECUServe system.M > The objective was to support mostly-technical online discussions and mutual K > support for hardware and software of interest to DECUS members.  A second D > objective was to provide a friendly community atmosphere for other > discussion topics.  D I agree.  Personally, I use DECUServe for all my comp.os.vms access,C although spamming of Usenet posting addresses has caused me to make  that less obvious.  L > responses to new questions are usually rapid, and unwanted off-topic stuff > (noise) is notably absent.  G I attribute the higher quality of DECUServe discussions to two factors:   : 	Use of a single server reduces the instances of duplicate; 	responses crossing "on the wire".  Responses tend to build 6 	on one another in a more orderly fashion than Usenet.  = 	DECUServe is moderated.  As one of the moderators of the VMS ? 	conference, I don't really have to moderate anything. It seems = 	as if just knowing that there is moderation available causes 1 	people to behave in a civil manner and on-topic.   K > To sign up:  just Telnet to decuserve.org, use username REGISTRATION, and0D > follow the bouncing ball.  It's nice if you sign up using accurateL > information, and DECUServe won't sell it to anybody.  Oh - there's no fee,8 > and no requirement to be a member of any organization.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 18:51:40 GMT % From: Don Sykes <alphase@pacbell.net>t? Subject: Re: Editor wars - Was: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?e) Message-ID: <3E6647FB.A21A11@pacbell.net>e   "Alan E. Feldman" wrote: >  > clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) wrote in message news:<LkjAHws2dYKe@eisner.encompasserve.org>... r > > In article <b096a4ee.0303030923.29881ee5@posting.google.com>, spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes: > > >C > >e' > > First of all, my position up front:: > >mN > > I started on RSTS/E with EDT about 16 years ago. About a decade ago, afterN > > starting to write code for. and also to manage, my first Vax, I tried EVE.J > > After one about day of use, I switched full time to EVE, as it was far4 > > superior __for my needs__ (more of which below). >  > OK.? >  > > Now my comments: > >c <snip> > = > EVE fan: You can have multiple buffers in multiple windows!n > 6 > EDT fan: Well, in EDT you can have multiple buffers.   You can in TPU also.   > F > EVE fan: Yes, but in EDT you can only look at one of them at a time. > D > EDT fan: Yes, but in EVE you can only see part of a long line at aE > time because all you have is SHIFT LEFT and SHIFT RIGHT. I have SETu/ > NOTRUNCATE! I can see the whole line at once!s > C > Hopefully this makes it clear for people who don't understand ther > value of SET NOTRUNCATE.  G It is VERY CLEAR that the SET NOTRUNCATE is important to you. If (when)tH I get the time I'll see if I can solve that one. (too busy now trying to; get SMTP up on my NT box - see post Move Over, Alpha Down).    >  <snip>   -- r   HAD VMS, Will Travel Wire paladin, San Francisco    (paladinATalphaseDOTcom)   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Mar 2003 13:01:32 -0600eB From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)? Subject: Re: Editor wars - Was: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?t3 Message-ID: <4W$L+zSe$+n6@eisner.encompasserve.org>p  n In article <b096a4ee.0303040954.2dd3a45f@posting.google.com>, spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes: > clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) wrote in message news:<LkjAHws2dYKe@eisner.encompasserve.org>...e >>  K >> Would it be fair to say that there are very few annoyances in EDT, __fort0 >> the things that _you_ want to use EDT for ?__ > B > Well, yes. But, EDT doesn't annoy me when I want to search for aC > string. It doesn't annoy me when I go to the top or bottom of the F > buffer. It doesn't annoy me when I open a new file, or a large file.  ' How does opening a new file annoy you ?c  D I specify the file on the command line (for the first file) and then/ do "split window" followed by "get <filename>".   G > Are these not things that most people want to do (except possibly the D > large file)? With EVE, do you like waiting for minutes for a largeH > file to load and possibly fill the pagefile? Do you like the "Found in > other direction" question?  F Actually, the found in other direction question has never bothered me.F If it had, I would have just built a custom section file after copying and then editing the EVE code.  , > Do you like having to wait for a second orE > two for the display to settle down when you reach either end of theo% > buffer, wondering what is going on?a >   C I think I understand what's annoying you here. Are you holding down C the up/down arrow (or Prev/Next Screen) and then getting annoyed bys@ the pause caused by the flashing message before you can continue typing ?  3 If so, then try the following in your eve$init.eve:-  ! tpu set(message_action_level, 0); # tpu set(message_action_type, none);m  L WARNING: I have tested these for all of 2 minutes; I've just looked them up.  G Note that they will apply to all messages of the specified (or greater)'  severity; see the documentation.  E This flashing (if that's the problem) has never been an issue for me;cL I navigate around by searching for variables/keywords/etc, or going directly# to the top/bottom with PF1-KP4/KP5.    >> IN >> 2) the ability to have more than one buffer on the screen at the same time. > E > I rarely need this. But people who like this should also like or ateG > least understand the value of SET NOTRUNCATE as it allows you to lookeG > at different parts of a long line at the same time (you might have to, > vary the screen width).  >   I This does not follow when writing code. I require multiple windows on the-= screen, but I keep my code to 80 characters or less in width.R   >  > Disclaimer: JMNSHO > Alan E. Feldmann   Simon.   -- dB Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       L VMS advocate: One who makes a Mac advocate look like a beginner at advocacy.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 01:22:22 GMTZ# From: ualski <ualski@earthlink.net>-? Subject: Re: Editor wars - Was: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?p- Message-ID: <3E66A32B.52D89373@earthlink.net>i   Paul Sture wrote:    > + > Anyone remember SOS, whilst we are at it?d > -- > Paul Sture  I I loved SOS after using TECO, not that I admited that in public. That andaH those Hazeltine terminals with neon lamps under the tall push-buttons on2 the keyboard where a big improvement over KSR/ASR.   -- Aaron Sliwinski   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Mar 2003 06:28:05 -0800 . From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)? Subject: Re: Editor wars - Was: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?l= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0303050628.7c4885e2@posting.google.com>e  Z p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) wrote in message news:<z6ooiEz6qkc6@elias.decus.ch>...p > In article <b096a4ee.0303040954.2dd3a45f@posting.google.com>, spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes: > ) > Just a couple of points from that post:a > I > > Are these not things that most people want to do (except possibly theuF > > large file)? With EVE, do you like waiting for minutes for a large1 > > file to load and possibly fill the pagefile? o > E > I use Alphas exclusively nowadays, so the speed is not the issue itaF > once was. For example I've just loaded a 102,000 block file into TPUH > in approximately 10 seconds (and that's while the defragger is busy on
 > that disk).r  $ Well, some of us don't have Alphas.   F In 10 seconds, with EDT, I could open a file, edit the first line, ^Z,; EXIT, and move on to something else, even without an Alpha.    OK, it's not minutes, for you.  G > I don't remember with which version of VMS TPU's tendency to fill theeF > pagefile was fixed, by using workfiles, but it has not been an issue" > for me for quite some years now.  F I tried that once but it didn't help. I don't remember when or on what( version though. Maybe I'll try it again.   Dislcaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldmanm   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Mar 2003 13:34:48 -0800 . From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)? Subject: Re: Editor wars - Was: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?m< Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0303051334.eab9513@posting.google.com>  V Don Sykes <alphase@pacbell.net> wrote in message news:<3E6647FB.A21A11@pacbell.net>... > "Alan E. Feldman" wrote: > >  [...]]? > > EVE fan: You can have multiple buffers in multiple windows!  > > 8 > > EDT fan: Well, in EDT you can have multiple buffers. >  > You can in TPU also.    ( Yes, I just said that. Let me try again:    # EDT: You can have multiple buffers!   E EVE: You can have multiple buffers *and* see more than one of them atd the same time!  ! EDT: Well, what about long lines?b  D EVE: I can show you long lines. Just use SHIFT LEFT and SHIFT RIGHT!  F EDT: I can show you long lines *and* you can see the whole line at the( same time because I have SET NOTRUNCATE!  	  -- OR --M  E EVE: Well, with EDT you have to switch buffers to see another buffer. A EDT: Well, with EVE you have to SHIFT to see the next part of theo line.e   [...]tE > > Hopefully this makes it clear for people who don't understand the, > > value of SET NOTRUNCATE. > I > It is VERY CLEAR that the SET NOTRUNCATE is important to you. If (when)   E Well, I thought this comparison between multiple buffers and multiple : screen-width sections of a line would clarify it for some.  J > I get the time I'll see if I can solve that one. (too busy now trying to= > get SMTP up on my NT box - see post Move Over, Alpha Down).e  F Please, there's no rush. If you can do it, great. Just post it or send8 me an e-mail (yes, the spamsink address is real) Thanks.   [...]s   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Mar 2003 14:14:32 -0800 . From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)? Subject: Re: Editor wars - Was: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?p= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0303051414.321cc93c@posting.google.com>m  f JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3E63951A.3FB2145@vl.videotron.ca>... > "Alan E. Feldman" wrote:H > > Bonk! I'm not talking about DECwindows. Not everyone has DECwindows. > K > But my editor is better than yours because it has both interfaces ... :-)g   ok.    [...] L > We are the TPU, resistance is futile, you will be assimilated and your EDT= > customisations will be adapted to serve the TPU collective.S  ! Well, at least I won't lose them!V  E > > Second, my 262-line EDT init file boils down to 84 lines when you. > > remove the commentsn > O > So converting your customisations wouldn't be so bad after all since it isn'to1 > as big as you had lead us to believe initially.B > 6 > > (which was stated in my post). To do the same withJ > > TPU would probably take thousands of lines and hour and hours of time. > M > Out of curiosity, if you posted your customisation file [ok, I read furtherpI > along, by all means, do email it to me, just remove the spamnot from mynN > address], perhaps we could comment on how easy/difficult it would be to portM > to TPU. We already know that NOTRUNCATE would be missing but would still be : > interesting to see how much else might be tough to port.  , OK. I decided to post it in a separate post.  L > This is a bit of a selfish reason. By posting your customisation, it wouldN > force me to check out TPU and learn more about it to see how to generate theM > same behaviour as your customisation file. Seriously, I don't expect you too0 > migrate, but the jihad is just too much fun !)   OK.l   [...]t   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldmans   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Mar 2003 14:43:02 -0800i. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)? Subject: Re: Editor wars - Was: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?I= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0303051443.6d011ba5@posting.google.com>   f JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3E63951A.3FB2145@vl.videotron.ca>...  M > Out of curiosity, if you posted your customisation file [ok, I read further.I > along, by all means, do email it to me, just remove the spamnot from myUN > address], perhaps we could comment on how easy/difficult it would be to portM > to TPU. We already know that NOTRUNCATE would be missing but would still be : > interesting to see how much else might be tough to port.  b> OK! Here it is! Some notes: This was never intended for publicB consumption, so some of the comments may appear a bit cryptic. But6 I'll be happy to answer any questions about this file.  5 Usage:  Either define EDTSYS to point to this file ore  *     $ EDIT/EDT/COMMAND=SETUP.EDT your.file  F Warning: This file contains some non-printable characters. If you wishF to print the file, I recommend first running it through something like  6     $ SEARCH SETUP.EDT "" /FORMAT=DUMP /OUT=SETUP.DUMP  = so that printing it doesn't put your printer in a funny mode.t  C Note to anyone who wants to translate this into TPU: I almost neverhC use GOLD F, I, W, X, Y, _, Control _, so don't worry too much abouteA those. I don't use F7-F10 much, though I expected to when I addedrC them. I also don't use GOLD CONTROL D and GOLD CONTROL E very much.cF Also, there might still be a bug in the GOLD S substitute command whenC you are either at the top or bottom of the buffer (I forget which),eE but I don't use that much at all (can't remember when I used it last,sD actually). Also, I don't use the LaTeX shortcuts since I don't write< physics papers anymore. The commented-out FIX macro did someB conversion of old-style spacing and commenting to new-style; don't> worry about it. The SPELL.EDT file is even more obsolete as it# contained many commands of the formn   S/densitites/densities/whn S/Densitites/Densities/why  D which were very common typos when I was typing LaTeX input files for5 physics papers. So don't worry about that one either.D   File follows sig.c   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldmanv   6 $! ------------------ CUT HERE -----------------------/ $ v='f$verify(f$trnlnm("SHARE_UNPACK_VERIFY"))'h $! $! This archive created: $!  Name : SETUP-EDT $!  By   : feldman@IDS03" $!  Date :  5-MAR-2003 22:32:15.19 $!  Using: VMS_SHARE 8.5-1,h1 $!  (C) 1993 Andy Harper, Kings College London UK  $!: $! Credit is due to these people for their original ideas:" $!    James Gray, Michael Bednarek $! $! To unpack this archive:A $!    Minimum of VMS 4.4 (VAX) / OpenVMS 1.0 (Alpha) is required.iB $!    Remove the headers of the first part, up to `cut here' line.* $!    Execute file as a command procedure. $!9 $! The following file(s) will be created after unpacking:l $!       1. SETUP.EDT;349  $! $ set="set" % $ set symbol/scope=(nolocal,noglobal)c* $ f="SYS$SCRATCH:."+f$getjpi("","PID")+";"/ $ if f$trnlnm("SHARE_UNPACK") .nes. "" then $ -e!  f=f$parse("SHARE_UNPACK_TEMP",f) $ $ e="write sys$error  ""%UNPACK"", "$ $ w="write sys$output ""%UNPACK"", "6 $ if .not. f$trnlnm("SHARE_UNPACK_LOG") then $ w = "!"/ $ if f$getsyi("CPU") .gt. 127 then $ goto start" $ ve=f$getsyi("version")7 $ if ve-f$extract(0,1,ve) .ges. "4.4" then $ goto startm* $ e "-E-OLDVER, Must run at least VMS 4.4" $ v=f$verify(v):	 $ exit 44 M $unpack:subroutine!P1=file,P2=chksum,P3=attrib,P4=size,P5=fileno,P6=filetotals+ $ if f$parse(P1) .nes. "" then $ goto dirok  $ dn=f$parse(P1,,,"DIRECTORY")) $ w "-I-CREDIR, Creating directory ''dn'"m $ create/dir 'dn'  $ if $status then $ goto dirok8 $ e "-E-CREDIRFAIL, Unable to create ''dn' File skipped"
 $ delete 'f'*w $ exit $dirok:  $ x=f$search(P1)' $ if x .eqs. "" then $ goto file_absentm+ $ e "-W-EXISTS, File ''P1' exists. Skipped"i
 $ delete 'f'*o $ exit
 $file_absent:  $ n=P1 $ if P3 .nes. "" then $ n=f 7 $ if .not. f$verify() then $ define/user sys$output nl: : $ EDIT/TPU/NOSEC/NODIS/COM=SYS$INPUT/NOJOURNAL 'f'/OUT='n' PROCEDURE GetHex(s,p)LOCAL/ x1,x2;x1:=INDEX(t,SUBSTR(s,p,1))-1;x2:=INDEX(t,rE SUBSTR(s,p+1,1))-1;RETURN 16*x1+x2;ENDPROCEDURE;PROCEDURE SkipPartsep  LOCAL m;C LOOP m:=MARK(NONE);EXITIF m=END_OF(CURRENT_BUFFER);DELETE(m);EXITIFE INDEX(6 ERASE_LINE,"-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+")=1;ENDLOOP;ENDPROCEDURE;< PROCEDURE ProcessLine LOCAL c,s,l,b,n,p;s := ERASE_LINE;c := SUBSTR(s,1,1);s :=?  s-c;IF c = "X" THEN SPLIT_LINE; ENDIF;MOVE_HORIZONTAL(-1);l :=d LENGTH(s);p :=C  1;LOOP EXITIF p > l;c := SUBSTR(s,p,1);p := p+1;CASE c FROM ' ' TOb	 '`' ['`'] . : COPY_TEXT(ASCII(GetHex(s,p))); p:=p+2;[' ']: p:=p+1;[INRANGE,OUTRANGE] D : COPY_TEXT(c);ENDCASE;ENDLOOP;ENDPROCEDURE;PROCEDURE Decode(b)LOCAL m;3 POSITION(BEGINNING_OF(b));LOOP m:=MARK(NONE);EXITIFE m=END_OF(b);DELETE(m);A IF INDEX(CURRENT_LINE,"+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-")=1 THEN SkipPartSep;ELSE  ProcessLine;N MOVE_HORIZONTAL(1);ENDIF;ENDLOOP;ENDPROCEDURE;SET(FACILITY_NAME,"UNPACK");SET(F SUCCESS,OFF);SET(INFORMATIONAL,OFF);t:="0123456789ABCDEF";f:=GET_INFO(G COMMAND_LINE,"file_name");o:=CREATE_BUFFER(f,f);Decode(o);WRITE_FILE(o,e+ GET_INFO(COMMAND_LINE,"output_file"));QUIT;e $ if p3 .eqs. "" then $ goto dl, $ open/write fdl &ff $ write fdl "RECORD" $ write fdl P3 $ close fdla2 $ w "-I-CONVRFM, Converting record format to ", P3 $ convert/fdl='f' 'f'-1 'f'-% $ fa=f$getdvi(f$parse(f),"ALLDEVNAM")3& $ Pa=f$getdvi(f$parse(P1),"ALLDEVNAM")/ $ if fa .eqs. Pa then $ rename &f 'f$parse(P1)'p- $ if fa .nes. Pa then $ copy &f 'f$parse(P1)'7 $dl: delete 'f'* $ checksum 'P1'.( $ if checksum$checksum .nes. P2 then $ --   e "-E-CHKSMFAIL, Checksum of ''P1' failed."  $ exit $ endsubroutinep $start:y $! $ create 'f' X!+`20SETUP.EDT`20 X!  X!`20Tailor`20the`20environment: X!1 XSET`20CURS`208:12`20!`20Adjust`20cursor`20range.i> XSET`20NOTRUNCATE`20!`20How`20to`20deal`20with`20long`20lines.O XSET`20QUIET`20`20!`20Suppress`20the`20bell`20or`20buzzer`20that`20signals`20erm Vrors.E X!SET`20NONUMBERS`20!`20Suppress`20line`20numbers`20in`20line`20mode.27 X!SET`20MODE`20CHANGE`20!`20Select`20editing`20mode.`20FN X!SET`20WRAP`2072`20!`20Wrap`20full`20words`20to`20the`20next`20line`20at`2072 V`20characters.S X!SET`20SEARCH`20END X!O X!`20DEFINE`20KEY`20`20`20`20`20`20CONTROL`20N`20AS`20'("NOT"`20SEL`20"********o V**"`20CUTSR).'`20M X!`20DEFINE`20KEY`20`20`20`20`20`20CONTROL`20N`20AS`20'(SEL`20+C`20BL`20CUTSR(@ V`20ADVEL`20"").'`20!`20This`20is`20the`20same`20as`20control_U. X!`20L3 X!`20Redefine`20some`20of`20the`20keypad`20keys:`20o X!I XDEFINE`20KEY`20`20`20`20`20`20`203`20AS`20"`5EM-C."`20`20!`20OPEN`20LINE0F XDEFINE`20KEY`20`20`20`20`20`20`207`20AS`20"APPENDSR."`20`20!`20APPENDO XDEFINE`20KEY`20GOLD`20`207`20AS`20"EXT`20?*'Command:`20'."`20`20`20`20`20!`20D0O Vo`20key`20(same`20as`20before`20plus`20*`20to`20allow`20use`20of`20Return`20ke1 Vy) O XDEFINE`20KEY`20`20`20`20`20`20`208`20AS`20"(16(+V))."`20`20!`20Redefine`20"Nex K Vt`20Screen"`20so`20that`20the`20cursor`20stays`20in`20the`20same`20column.7O XDEFINE`20KEY`20`20`20`20`20`20`209`20AS`20'(CUTSR=DELETE`20PASTEKS"").'`20`20!- V`20SUBSN XDEFINE`20KEY`20`20`20`20`20`2010`20AS`20"(16(-V))."`20`20!`20Redefine`20"PrevJ V`20Screen"`20so`20that`20the`20cursor`20stays`20in`20the`20same`20column.O XDEFINE`20KEY`20GOLD`2010`20AS`20"."`20`20`20`20`20`20`20!Redefine`20GOLD`20HELn0 VP`20to`20do`20absolutely`20nothing`20whatsoever X!0 X!`20Define`20some`20of`20the`20function`20keys: X!N X!`20DEFINE`20KEY`20FUNCTION`20`203`20AS`20"(16(-V))."`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20N V`20`20`20`20!`20Redefine`20"Prev`20Screen"`20so`20that`20the`20cursor`20stays V`20in`20the`20same`20column.pM XDEFINE`20KEY`20FUNCTION`20`205`20AS`20"(16(-V))."`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20bO V`20`20`20!`20Redefine`20"Prev`20Screen"`20so`20that`20the`20cursor`20stays`20i  Vn`20the`20same`20column.-M XDEFINE`20KEY`20FUNCTION`20`206`20AS`20"(16(+V))."`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20iO V`20`20`20!`20Redefine`20"Next`20Screen"`20so`20that`20the`20cursor`20stays`20i  Vn`20the`20same`20column. N X!`20DEFINE`20KEY`20FUNCTION`2018`20AS`20"1(+C)`20BL`20IH`5EZ`20D-C."`20`20`20( V`20`20`20!`20F7`20Nuke`20Insert`20Mode! X!O X!`20DEFINE`20KEY`20`20`20`20`20`20FUNCTION`2018`20AS`20"EXT`20?*'Command:`20'.d V"`20`20`20`20`20`20`20!`20Do:M X!`20DEFINE`20KEY`20GOLD`20FUNCTION`2018`20AS`20"?*'Nokeypad`20command:`20'."n V`20`20!`20GOLD`20Do`20s X!O X!`20DEFINE`20KEY`20FUNCTION`2019`20AS`20"EXT`20SET`20SCREEN`2080."`20`20`20`20M V`20`20`20`20!`20F8aM X!`20DEFINE`20KEY`20FUNCTION`2020`20AS`20"EXT`20SET`20SCREEN`20132."`20`20`20i V`20`20`20`20!`20F9iN X!`20DEFINE`20KEY`20FUNCTION`2021`20AS`20"EXIT."`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20G V`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20!`20F10:`20`5EZ`20as`20it`20is`20DCL.eM XDEFINE`20KEY`20FUNCTION`2023`20AS`20"(I$!------`20`20`20`5EZ`20ADV`20L)."`20aO V`20`20`20`20!`20F11:`20put`20a`20"$!------`20`20`20"`20to`20comment`20out`20DCs VL`20command`20lines.nI X!`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20FUNCTION`2024`20==`20F12`20==`20BACKSPACE K X!`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20FUNCTION`2025`20==`20F13`20==`20LINE`20FEEDaM XDEFINE`20KEY`20FUNCTION`2026`20AS`20"I`20`5EZ1(-C)."`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20tI V`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20!`20F14:`20Insert`201`20blank`20character. O XDEFINE`20KEY`20FUNCTION`20`204`20AS`20"I`20`5EZ1(-C)."`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20bM V`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20!`20SmarTerm`20End`20key:`20Insert`201`20blanka V`20character.= X!`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20FUNCTION`2027`20==`20<SPACER>eD X!`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20FUNCTION`2028`20==`20F15`20==`20HELPN XDEFINE`20KEY`20FUNCTION`2029`20AS`20"EXT`20?*'Command:`20'."`20`20`20!`20F16: V`20Do:aO XDEFINE`20KEY`20GOLD`20FUNCTION`2029`20AS`20"?*'Nokeypad`20command:`20'."`20`20l V!`20GOLD`20Do= X!`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20FUNCTION`2030`20==`20<SPACER>-; X!`20The`20next`204`20lines`20are`20for`20F17`20thru`20F20:aN XDEFINE`20KEY`20FUNCTION`2031`20AS`20"-V-V-V-V."`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20" V`20`20!`20Move`20down`204`20linesN XDEFINE`20KEY`20FUNCTION`2032`20AS`20"+V+V+V+V."`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20  V`20`20!`20Move`20up`204`20linesO XDEFINE`20KEY`20FUNCTION`2033`20AS`20"-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C."`20`20`20`20!`20Move`20r Vleft`208`20spacesO XDEFINE`20KEY`20FUNCTION`2034`20AS`20"+C+C+C+C+C+C+C+C."`20`20`20`20!`20Move`20e Vright`208`20spaces`20G X!`20The`20next`204`20lines`20are`20for`20SmarTerm`20(F7`20thru`20F10):gN XDEFINE`20KEY`20FUNCTION`2018`20AS`20"-V-V-V-V."`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20" V`20`20!`20Move`20down`204`20linesN XDEFINE`20KEY`20FUNCTION`2019`20AS`20"+V+V+V+V."`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20  V`20`20!`20Move`20up`204`20linesO XDEFINE`20KEY`20FUNCTION`2020`20AS`20"-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C."`20`20`20`20!`20Move`20@ Vleft`208`20spacesO XDEFINE`20KEY`20FUNCTION`2021`20AS`20"+C+C+C+C+C+C+C+C."`20`20`20`20!`20Move`20J Vright`208`20spaces`20 X! X!! X!`20More`20Key`20Definitions:`202 X!O X!!`20Define`20add`20'%'`20at`20the`2071(72?)th`20column`20(CONTROL`20@`20or`20h VCONTROL`202): X!O XDEFINE`20KEY`20`20`20`20`20`20CONTROL`20@`20AS`20"EXT`20SET`20NOWRAP;`20CHANGE M V;`20ADVEL`20I`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20>O V`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20sO V`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20 > V`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`5EZ`20BL`20+72C`20I%`5EZDELW." X!O X!`20Replace`20all`20occurrences`20of`20the`20specified`20string`20in`20the`20c 6 Vurrent`20buffer`20with`20the`20specified`20string:`20O XDEFINE`20KEY`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20GOLD`20B`20AS`20'S`7E?''REPLACE`20WHAT>iO V''`7E?''`20...WITH`20WHAT>''`7E?*''...REPLACE`20HOW`20MANY`20MORE`20TIMES?>''( 	 VSN).'`20SM XDEFINE`20KEY`20`20`20`20`20`20CONTROL`20B`20AS`20"-'!`7E`7E/`5C`7E`7E!'."`20tB V`20!`20Find`20the`20next`20mark`20in`20the`20reverse`20direction. X!B X!!`20Define`20key`20to`20eliminate`20triple`20line`20terminators:N X!DEFINE`20KEY`20GOLD`20CONTROL`20B`20AS`20"EXT`20SET`20ENTITY`20PARAGRAPH`20'. V`0D`0D`0D';`20CHANGE;`2032(PAR`20-DC`20-2L)."; X!`20(`20s/`0D`0D`0D/`0D`0D/wh`20!`20Does`20not`20work!`20)t X! X!`20Capitalize`20word. O XDEFINE`20KEY`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20GOLD`20C`20AS`20"(ADV`20CHGUC`20CHGLW).  V"B X!`20`20`20`20`20`20KEY`20`20`20`20`20`20CONTROL`20C`20==`20CANCEL: X!`20`20`20`20`20`20KEY`20GOLD`20CONTROL`20C`20==`20CANCEL X!`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20O XDEFINE`20KEY`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20GOLD`20D`20AS`20"ADV`20CHGUW."`20`20`20tO V`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20!`20Change`20word`20to`20all`20upper`20casy Ve`20characters:O XDEFINE`20KEY`20`20`20`20`20`20CONTROL`20D`20AS`20"(ADV`20EL`20+C`20FILLBL`20-E6O VL)."`20`20!`20Delete`20obnoxious`20spaces`20at`20the`20end`20of`20a`20line!`20t VsO XDEFINE`20KEY`20GOLD`20CONTROL`20D`20AS`20"`5EM`20FILLBL`20-EL`20D+C."`20`20`20 O V`20`20`20`20!`20Compress`20spaces`20to`20the`20left`20of`20the`20cursor`20down  V`20to`20one`20space!C X!M X!!`20(Note:`20`20+C`20BL`20goes`20to`20beg`20of`20line`20even`20if`20already- V`20at`20beg`20of`20line!) X!O XDEFINE`20KEY`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20GOLD`20E`20AS`20"EXT`20EXIT."`20`20!`20a VExit`20fileO XDEFINE`20KEY`20`20`20`20`20`20CONTROL`20E`20AS`20"ADVEL."`20`20`20`20`20!`20Ene Vd`20of`20line`20UO XDEFINE`20KEY`20GOLD`20CONTROL`20E`20AS`20"-C`20+EL."`20`20`20`20!`20Go`20to`20l$ Vlast`20character`20on`20the`20line. X!N XDEFINE`20KEY`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20GOLD`20F`20AS`20"EXT`20FIND=?*'BUFFER:# V`20`20'.."`20`20!`20Find`20buffer.mM XDEFINE`20KEY`20`20`20`20`20`20CONTROL`20F`20AS`20"+'!`7E`7E/`5C`7E`7E!'."`20eO V`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20!`20Find`20the`20next`20mark`20in`20the( V`20forward`20direction.A XDEFINE`20KEY`20GOLD`20CONTROL`20F`20AS`20"EXT`20SET`20TRUNCATE."g X!O X!`20DEFINE`20KEY`20`20`20`20`20`20CONTROL`20G`20AS`20"+C`20BL`20IH`5EZ`20D-C." ; V`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20!`20Nuke`20Insert`20Mode!oN X!`20DEFINE`20KEY`20`20`20`20`20`20CONTROL`20G`20AS`20"EXT`20SUB`7E$!------`20O V`20`20`7E`7E;`20FIND`20'$!------`20`20`20'."`20`20!`20Remove`20AEF`20DCL`20comp Vment`20stringN X!`20DEFINE`20KEY`20`20`20`20`20`20CONTROL`20G`20AS`20"L`20WWW`20I.`20`20`20." Vn X!N XDEFINE`20KEY`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20GOLD`20G`20AS`20"EXT`20CHANGE`20LAST."N V`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20!`20Change`20to`20the`20last`20current`20line`20in V`20the`20previous`20buffer.M XDEFINE`20KEY`20`20`20`20`20`20CONTROL`20G`20AS`20"S/$!------`20`20`20//."`20uB V`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20!`20Remove`20AEF`20DCL`20comment`20stringO XDEFINE`20KEY`20GOLD`20CONTROL`20G`20AS`20"EXT`20SET`20NOTRUNCATE."`20`20`20`20u" V`20`20!`20Set`20no`20truncate`20! X!O X!`20Put`20this`20silly`20string`20in`20the`20buffer.`20(This`20is`20useful`20wiD Vhen`20we`20are`20on`20a`20terminal`20without`20a`20status`20line.):O XDEFINE`20KEY`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20GOLD`20H`20AS`20"+V`20BLI....:....1....oN V:....2....:....3....:....4....:....5....:....6....:....7....:....`5EZ`5EM-V." VaE X!`20`20`20`20`20`20KEY`20`20`20`20`20`20CONTROL`20H`20==`20BACKSPACEsO XDEFINE`20KEY`20GOLD`20CONTROL`20H`20AS`20"+V`20BLI....:....1....:....2....:...oO V.3....:....4....:....5....:....6....:....7....:....8....:....9....:....0....:.j& V...1....:....2....:....3.`5EZ`5EM-V." X!B X!!!`20DEFINE`20KEY`20GOLD`20CONTROL`20I`20AS`20"I$`5E`7B16`7D$O." X!@ X!`20Create`20a`20buffer`20and`20INCLUDE`20a`20file`20into`20it.O XDEFINE`20KEY`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20GOLD`20I`20AS`20"EXT`20INCLUDE`20?*'INC ( VLUDE`20FILE:`20'`20=?*'`20BUFFER:`20'."? X!`20`20`20`20`20`20KEY`20`20`20`20`20`20CONTROL`20I`20==`20TABlO XDEFINE`20KEY`20GOLD`20CONTROL`20I`20AS`20"+V`20BLI..:....4....:....5....:....6 O V....:....7....:....8....:....9....:....0....:....1....:....2....:....3.`5EZ`5Ea VM-V." X!N XDEFINE`20KEY`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20GOLD`20J`20AS`20"I`5Clambda_V`5EZ."`20 V`20M X!`20`20`20`20`20`20KEY`20`20`20`20`20`20CONTROL`20J`20==`20LINE`20FEED`20`20t2 V`20`20`20`20`20`20`20!`20(RESERVED)`20Line`20feed= XDEFINE`20KEY`20GOLD`20CONTROL`20J`20AS`20"I$`5E`7B40`7D$Ca."A X!K XDEFINE`20KEY`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20GOLD`20K`20AS`20"I`5Clambda_W`5EZ."nN X!`20`20`20`20`20`20KEY`20`20`20`20`20`20CONTROL`20K`20==`20DEFINE`20KEY`20`200 V`20`20`20`20`20`20!`20(RESERVED)`20Define`20key= XDEFINE`20KEY`20GOLD`20CONTROL`20K`20AS`20"I$`5E`7B90`7D$Zr."v X!B X!`20DEFINE`20KEY`20GOLD`20CONTROL`20L`20AS`20"I$`5E`7B208`7D$Pb." X!M XDEFINE`20KEY`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20GOLD`20L`20AS`20"ADV`20CHGLW."`20`20!g5 V`20Change`20word`20to`20all`20lowercase`20charactersoM X!`20`20`20`20`20`20KEY`20`20`20`20`20`20CONTROL`20L`20==`20FORM`20FEED`20`20e> V`20`20`20`20!`20(RESERVED)`20Insert`20form`20feed`20characterN XDEFINE`20KEY`20GOLD`20CONTROL`20L`20AS`20"BR`20CHGLER."`20`20!`20Change`20all V`20characters`20to`20lowercaser X!N XDEFINE`20KEY`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20GOLD`20M`20AS`20"EXT`20FIND=MAIN.."`20H V`20!`20Locate`20the`20last`20current`20line`20in`20the`20MAIN`20buffer.N X!`20`20`20`20`20`20KEY`20`20`20`20`20`20CONTROL`20M`20==`20RETURN`20`20`20`206 V`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20!`20(RESERVED)`20RETURNO XDEFINE`20KEY`20GOLD`20CONTROL`20M`20AS`20"I!`7E`7E/`5C`7E`7E!`20."`20`20`20`20e1 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-  END  OF PART 1 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- 1 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ START OF PART 2 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+s? V`20`20!`20Mark`20the`20current`20location`20in`20the`20buffer.t X!M XDEFINE`20KEY`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20GOLD`20N`20AS`20'EXT`20SET`20NOWRAP.'o  V`20`20!`20Change`20to`20nowrap:O XDEFINE`20KEY`20`20`20`20`20`20CONTROL`20N`20AS`20'(PASTEADVL).'`20`20`20`20`20d? V!`20Insert`20paste`20buffer;`20advance`20to`20beg`20of`20line.oM XDEFINE`20KEY`20GOLD`20CONTROL`20N`20AS`20'EXT`20SET`20WRAP`2070.'`20!`20Wrap  V`2070 X!`20`20`20i< X!`20DEFINE`20KEY`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20GOLD`20O`20AS`20K X!`20`20`20`20`20`20KEY`20`20`20`20`20`20CONTROL`20O`20==`20OUTPUT`20OFF/ON.C X!`20`20`20`20`20`20KEY`20GOLD`20CONTROL`20O`20==`20OUTPUT`20OFF/ONo X!M X!DEFINE`20KEY`20GOLD`20CONTROL`20P`20AS`20"EXT`20S/.`20`20/.`20/WH;`20S/.`20hO V`20/.`20/WH;`20S/.`20/.`20`20/WH."`20`20!`20Fix`20spaces`20after`20a`20period.o Vr X!O XDEFINE`20KEY`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20GOLD`20P`20AS`20'(ADV`20FILLEPAR).'`20! 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 Vcro`20reply2a X!O X!------`20`20`20DEFINE`20KEY`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20GOLD`20<`20AS`20"EXT`20E	 VREPLY2."  X!N XDEFINE`20KEY`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20GOLD`20<`20AS`20'ER`20-L`2032000(62ASC V`20-2L)`20ER.'  X!  X!!`20Shift`20screen`20commands: X!!u5 X!!`20Shift`20screen`20left`201`20tab`20(8`20columns)l9 X!DEFINE`20KEY`20`20`20`20`20`20CONTROL`20V`20AS`20"SHL." 6 X!!`20Shift`20screen`20right`201`20tab`20(8`20columns)9 X!DEFINE`20KEY`20`20`20`20`20`20CONTROL`20B`20AS`20"SHR."  X!O XSET`20ENTITY`20SENTENCE`20'.%?!'`20!`20Define`20delimiters`20for`20the`20sente ! Vnce`20entity.`20(WAS`20'.`20?!')g1 XSET`20ENTITY`20WORD`20'`20`09`0C`0D`0A`0B`1B'`20lM X!`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20 + V`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20oO X!`20Define`20keys`20to`20change`20word`20entity`20(first`20char`20is`20a`20spaeL Vce`20(ASCII`20%X20),`20ALSO`20ASCII`200C,0D,0A,0B),`20PLUS`20ESCAPE`20CHAR:O XDEFINE`20KEY`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20GOLD`20A`20AS`20"EXT`20SET`20ENTITY`20WoM VORD`20'`20""''.,!@;:`5B`5D`7B`7D()<>*-+=/`5C$#`0C`0D`0A`0B`1B';`20SET`20WORD' V`20DELIM."`20`20`20!`20slowO XDEFINE`20KEY`20`20`20`20`20`20CONTROL`20A`20AS`20"EXT`20SET`20ENTITY`20WORD`20sO V`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20f@ V'`20`0C`0D`0A`0B`1B';`20SET`20WORD`20DELIM."`20`20`20!`20normalO XDEFINE`20KEY`20GOLD`20CONTROL`20A`20AS`20"EXT`20SET`20ENTITY`20WORD`20'`20""''eO V.,!@;:`5B`5D`7B`7D()<>*-+=/`5C$#`0C`0D`0A`0B`1B';`20SET`20WORD`20NODELIM."`20!  V`20fast X!O X!!`20"?"`20causes`20a`20spazz`20(of`20course,`20it's`20the`20"query`20the`20usf+ Ver"`20command`20for`20DEFINE`20KEY):`20`20nO X!DEFINE`20KEY`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20`20GOLD`20A`20AS`20'EXT`20SET`20ENTITY`20  VWORD`20''`20?`20''.'t X! X!! X!!`20Set`20up`20the`20fix`20file % X!!INCLUDE`20LOGIN$COM:FIX.EDT`20=FIXr X!!DEFINE`20MACRO`20FIXe	 X!!F=MAIN  X!" X!`20Set`20up`20the`20spell`20file2 X!`20INCLUDE`20USR:`5BFELDMAN`5DSPELL.EDT`20=SPELL X!`20DEFINE`20MACRO`20SPELL  X!`20F=MAIN  X!O X!`20The`20following`20puts`20a`20selected`20string`20into`20the`20search`20buf  Vfer:eO XDEFINE`20KEY`20GOLD`20FUNCTION`201`20AS`20"cutsr`20paste`20-bl`20ext`20cl`20F_eN VMAC;`20def`20mac`20F_MAC;`20f=F_MAC;`20c;`20if`20'`5EZ`20paste`20i'`5EZ`20ext V`20f`20last;`20F_MAC`20."O X!(`5E-`20combine`20into`20a`20single`20line,`20`5E`5E---------`5E`5E-`20replace= Ve`20by`2026`20ASCII`20`5Ba`20text`20`5EZ`20works`20fine!`5D)o X!----- O X!puts`20a`20good`20approximation`20to`20the`20desired`20function`20on`20`20GOLa VD`20Find-Key`20.Z X! X!#`20End`20of`20SETUP.EDT0 $ call unpack SETUP.EDT;349 1248547784 "" 27 1 1 $ v=f$verify(v)t $ exit
 $! LAST LINE!A   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Mar 2003 15:50:29 -0800m. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)? Subject: Re: Editor wars - Was: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?p< Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0303051550.5230396@posting.google.com>  } clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) wrote in message news:<4W$L+zSe$+n6@eisner.encompasserve.org>...-p > In article <b096a4ee.0303040954.2dd3a45f@posting.google.com>, spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes: > > clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) wrote in message news:<LkjAHws2dYKe@eisner.encompasserve.org>...h > >> S [...]rJ > > file to load and possibly fill the pagefile? Do you like the "Found in > > other direction" question? > H > Actually, the found in other direction question has never bothered me.H > If it had, I would have just built a custom section file after copying  > and then editing the EVE code.  F "I would have just..."! Once you know TPU programming, then maybe it'sF easy. But remember, the relevant question here is "Why should I botherB to switch when I already have something that works better for me?"E Having to learn TPU programming just to fix things like this and redoiE all my EDT customizations just doesn't sound like a good incentive tos me.    [...]o   Disclaimer: JMNSHO Alan E. Feldmane   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Mar 2003 15:42:44 -0800 . From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)? Subject: Re: Editor wars - Was: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?t= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0303051542.1cb08c26@posting.google.com>w  } clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) wrote in message news:<4W$L+zSe$+n6@eisner.encompasserve.org>... p > In article <b096a4ee.0303040954.2dd3a45f@posting.google.com>, spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes: > > clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) wrote in message news:<LkjAHws2dYKe@eisner.encompasserve.org>...: > >> iM > >> Would it be fair to say that there are very few annoyances in EDT, __for32 > >> the things that _you_ want to use EDT for ?__ > > D > > Well, yes. But, EDT doesn't annoy me when I want to search for aE > > string. It doesn't annoy me when I go to the top or bottom of thebH > > buffer. It doesn't annoy me when I open a new file, or a large file. > ) > How does opening a new file annoy you ?   D With EDT it takes approx. 0.0 seconds. With EVE I get 2 to 3 secondsC of unreadably fast messages in sequence at the bottom of the screenh? with the cursor moving left and right across it and the messagelD changing from normal to reverse video and back a few times. Why evenC bother showing the messages when they are displayed to fast to readeD them? This is a needless, time wasting distraction, and the flahsingF message is just annoying, I don't know why. Just put the cursor at the? top of the screen, put up the status bar, and say "messages" orhB whatever below that, and do it in approx. 0.0 seconds. Just get on with it.  E It's like those stupid cassette decks whose doors open so slowly. No, = it's not cool. It's stupid. Just open up and let me put in myhB cassette. Or the stupid gray shading you see in transparent coversF that make it hard to see what you need to see. Yeah, it looks cool but? it makes it harder to see what you need to see. And with EVE it  doesn't even look cool.e  F > I specify the file on the command line (for the first file) and then1 > do "split window" followed by "get <filename>".t > I > > Are these not things that most people want to do (except possibly thedF > > large file)? With EVE, do you like waiting for minutes for a largeJ > > file to load and possibly fill the pagefile? Do you like the "Found in > > other direction" question? > H > Actually, the found in other direction question has never bothered me.H > If it had, I would have just built a custom section file after copying  > and then editing the EVE code.  A OK. But it's just another of many needless distractions and extra  keystrokes.D  . > > Do you like having to wait for a second orG > > two for the display to settle down when you reach either end of thee' > > buffer, wondering what is going on?s > >  > E > I think I understand what's annoying you here. Are you holding downiE > the up/down arrow (or Prev/Next Screen) and then getting annoyed byDB > the pause caused by the flashing message before you can continue
 > typing ?  D Nope. If I am in the middle of the file, and I am scrolling upwards,? pressing the next/prev screen key at about 2.5 to 3 Hz, when it F reaches the top, the cursor is still not at the top. The cursor has toE wait for the message at the bottom of the screen to flash "Attempt tor@ move past the beginning of buffer AEFL.COM". First it appears inF reverse video, then normal video, and then finally my cursor is placedF at the top of the screen. Every time this happens my reaction is "WhatF the...? What is going on? ... Oh, I reached the top of the buffer. WhyD does it do that?" I just can't get used to it. I can't stay on guardD for it all the time. I'm editing. I have my work in mind. I have the? pattern that I am looking for in mind. This is just yet anotheruB distraction that slows me down and makes me wait for nothing. WithD EDT, I get the message, it stays in reverse video, and the cursor isB placed immediately on the first line. It takes about 0.00 seconds.0 That's the way to do it. No BS. It just does it.  5 > If so, then try the following in your eve$init.eve:  > # > tpu set(message_action_level, 0);0% > tpu set(message_action_type, none);: > N > WARNING: I have tested these for all of 2 minutes; I've just looked them up. > I > Note that they will apply to all messages of the specified (or greater)c" > severity; see the documentation. > G > This flashing (if that's the problem) has never been an issue for me;aN > I navigate around by searching for variables/keywords/etc, or going directly% > to the top/bottom with PF1-KP4/KP5.   F But sometimes I am scrolling quickly through the file and I don't knowF that I am near the top or bottom. I am scrolling quickly, pressing the@ next/prev key at about 2.5 to 3 Hz, keeping a keen eye out for a? particular pattern and then, kaboom! What's that? Is the editoroD crashing? Oh, I reached the end of the buffer. Needless time wastingD distraction. And some people are more sensitive to the flashing than0 others. Like those obnoxious pop-ups on the Web.  P > >> 2) the ability to have more than one buffer on the screen at the same time. > > G > > I rarely need this. But people who like this should also like or atgI > > least understand the value of SET NOTRUNCATE as it allows you to look I > > at different parts of a long line at the same time (you might have to  > > vary the screen width).  > >  > K > This does not follow when writing code. I require multiple windows on theo? > screen, but I keep my code to 80 characters or less in width.o  D Those who complain that you can only see one buffer at a time in EDTB should then *understand* that that is exactly my problem with longD lines in EVE. I have to SHIFT to see another screen-width section ofB the line. And to read a file with many long lines, I have to shift* back and forth, back and forth, ad naseum.  ? I wasn't restricting my comment here to writing 80-column code.o  F If I need multiple buffers on the screen simultaneously, I'll use EVE.2 But I almost never need multiple buffers this way.  E Now I understand that these aren't really "big" things. But they slowfE me down and aggravate me nonetheless in part because I just can't see E the motivation behind any of it. I can work more easily, keep my workhC in mind more easily, work more smoothly, work faster, and work moresE accurately with EDT than with EVE. And since EDT suffices for 95%plusU/ of my editing work, why should I switch to EVE?r  D But like I said: Use whatever editor you want. It doesn't bother me.B But if you want to know why I like EDT, I've answered that in part3 here and the rest is contained in many other posts.    > Simon.   Disclaimer: JMNSHO Alan E. Feldmand   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 19:05:17 -0500' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>!" Subject: RE: Fibre Channel and SCST Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660DEF@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Rob,  F Where I expect SCS over FC will play a role is as a backup path shouldF both network switches (assuming dual switch config) become unavailable for any reason.   G In the traditional CI Cluster world, if you lose both network switches,"F then the users are dropped but all batch jobs continue and the cluster as a whole is not impacted.s  G In the SAN cluster of today, if you lose both network switches then youtH are in big trouble as all cluster communications have been lost. With FCH as a backup path, the cluster would continue as in the CI cluster world.  H This is a good message for those Customers who have Operations folks who0 do not trust their Network group and vice versa.   Regardsm  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultanti Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.! Consulting & Integration Servicesr Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom-     (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s)  OpenVMS DCL - the original .COM'     -----Original Message-----5 From: Rob Young [mailto:young_r@encompasserve.org]=20  Sent: March 5, 2003 10:38 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comt" Subject: Re: Fibre Channel and SCS    = In article <v6c3t366g2b083@corp.supernews.com>, "Alan Boyles"f$ <alan.boyles@mindspring.com> writes:J > Currently Fiber Channel cannot be used as a cluster interconnect, but=20F > I hear that's changing.  Gigabit E/net is now a supported Cluster=20( > Interconnect and has been for a while. >=20  > 	SCS over fibre was presented to me as a "great thing to have"
 but the=20> 	performance isn't stellar (I guess shouldn't be either as you think=20? 	about the protocols involved, how many layers?).  As mentionedL before, A 	SCS over fibre for DT "mostly" and that is borne out on slide 11I  > 	of the latest roadmap and it is a wide box on that powerpoint 	(form mid-2004 to 2006).M   				Rob`   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Mar 2003 16:24:31 -0800A# From: wmarsh@etrade.com (Wil Marsh)E" Subject: Re: Fibre Channel and SCS= Message-ID: <36f52bd6.0303051624.147326a6@posting.google.com>I  S "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@hp.com> wrote in message news:<3E661930.598E15BD@hp.com>...SE > Fibre Channel does not have SCS at this time.  The biggest stickingEH > point has been a lack of agreement between vendors/standards as to howD > host to host communication would work.  Last I knew there were 2-3B > different proposals being pushed.  Once this gets sorted out andG > controllers get delivered that support it then SCS may be made to usetF > FC.  As for gigabit, yes this has SCS support.  Also you are correctJ > that in your current setup you will have a CLUEXIT bugcheck if the nodes= > lose network connectivity for more than RECNXINTERVAL time.f >  > "John N." wrote: > > 8 > > Does FibreChannel support SCS?  Are there any plans?I > > If my Alpha systems are connected by a single LAN interconnect, and ahN > > FibreChannel interconnect, are the nodes subject to CLUEXIT if the network5 > > segment becomes unavailable for a period of time?!  F Hopefully they will never put SCS on Fiberchannel. SCS traffic ideally@ should be on dedicated paths throughout the cluster. As the diskB speeds increase, the number of locks tend to increase also and theD need for dedicated SCS ports increase. Once the Fastpath for the Lan> is available, using Gigabit ethernet may be feasible for largeF clusters with high I/O rates, but currently using multiple CI rails is> our only option. We tried memory channel and that caused cpu 0= overloads due to lack of fastpath support for memory channel.ND The SCS traffic should never be on the network or disk subsystems if	 possible,0C just clutters it with messages used only by VMS clusters. It works,.E but why not provide a dedicated SCS port for each node...and not deal` with a possible network outage.:D We use the stop_bus procedure in sys$examples to turn off SCS on theC network ports we do not use for cluster traffic. We do use FDDI and"D GIGe for the NI connections between the CI clusters, but one side isB used only for shadow copies, as we currently cannot drive the high lock traffic across the NI.0   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Mar 2003 10:43:53 -0800V" From: ccc_crg@yahoo.com (Chris G.)/ Subject: Re: hobbiest RDB/Sql*Services security2= Message-ID: <5437ff2f.0303051043.36aa2ed8@posting.google.com>S  B Hi Alder - thanks for the info on the SQLSRV commands.  I have nowD downloaded all the PDF files from the OTN site and am working my way5 through them. If I find the answer I'll post it here.e   cheers, Chris G.  ] "Alder" <MUNDDGNTDYTV@spammotel.com> wrote in message news:<3e64fe28$1@obsidian.gov.bc.ca>...l > Welcome to the club, Chris.! > M > I'm pretty new to all this myself, so take what I say with a large grain of`M > salt.  I run TCP/IP Services, not UCX, so you may have to adjust what I saye' > a bit to make it work on your system.s > L > Anyway, SQS is not run as a TCPIP service.  To get information on your SQSF > servers, dispatchers, services, and the like, you'll want to run theM > SQLSEV_MANAGE utility that was installed with SQS.  It's in the SYS$MANAGERNJ > directory I believe.  Once you have it running, you must connect to your > server before anything else. > C > $ @SYS$MANAGER:SQLSRV_MANAGE    (hint: define a logical for this) E > SQLSRV> CONNECT SERVER;         (note the semi-colon, SQS needs it)` > . . . H > SQLSRV> SHOW DISPATCHER FULL;   (shows RMU and SQLSRV dispatcher info) > M > I'd also recommend the SQS documentation at Oracle's Rdb site.  You'll have: > to register with OTN, though:T > 6 > http://otn.oracle.com/docs/products/rdb/content.html > 	 > Cheers,! > AlderF   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 20:05:53 GMT ! From: JBloggs@acme..spamless..com0D Subject: Re: hobbiest RDB/Sql*Services security (unrelated question)8 Message-ID: <apjc6vsgdcor51fvg25o08de9j2n9966o3@4ax.com>  A On Wed, 5 Mar 2003 18:03:04 +0100, Michael Unger <unger@decus.de>2 wrote:  * >Do you still have the links to the kits?  See below. N  O >I visited the OTN site a few hours ago and found it full of JavaScript, i.e., `! > unusable for secured browsers. m  0 Ayep, definitely.  All sorts of cookies as well.  M >(I was using Mozilla 1.2.1 DE with JavaScript disabled for obvious reasons.)2 >Michael  ; With lynx, you'll prompted for your OTN username/password, E7 if you allow about 4-5 different cookies along the way.2  , Most of the kits listed below, are large.   6 iirc, the rdbv7105kit_amv.zip is about 128,000 blocks.  ? I don't know if there are any OTN mirror sites for Europe/Asia?0      * ! Rdb 7.0.6.5 Alpha (rdbv7065kit_amv.zip) ? http://download.oracle.com/otn/openvms/rdb/rdbv7065kit_amv.zip `  ( ! Rdb 7.0.6.5 VAX (rdbv7065kit_vmv.zip) ? http://download.oracle.com/otn/openvms/rdb/rdbv7065kit_vmv.zip    * ! Rdb 7.0.6.4 Alpha (rdbv7064kit_amv.zip) ? http://download.oracle.com/otn/openvms/rdb/rdbv7064kit_amv.zip 2  ( ! Rdb 7.0.6.4 VAX (rdbv7064kit_vmv.zip) ? http://download.oracle.com/otn/openvms/rdb/rdbv7064kit_vmv.zip U  * ! Rdb 7.1.0.5 Alpha (rdbv7105kit_amv.zip) ? http://download.oracle.com/otn/openvms/rdb/RDBV7105KIT_AMV.ZIP C  * ! Rdb 7.1.0.4 Alpha (rdbv7104kit_amv.zip) ? http://download.oracle.com/otn/openvms/rdb/RDBV7104KIT_AMV.ZIP 0  * ! Rdb 7.1.0.3 Alpha (rdbv7103kit_amv.zip) ? http://download.oracle.com/otn/openvms/rdb/rdbv7103kit_amv.zip `  * ! Rdb 7.1.0.2 Alpha (rdbv7102kit_amv.zip) ? http://download.oracle.com/otn/openvms/rdb/rdbv7102kit_amv.zip N  3 ! SQL Services 7.1.5.6 Alpha (sqlsrvamve6e071.zip) e? http://download.oracle.com/otn/openvms/rdb/SQLSRVAMVE6E071.ZIP `  0 ! SQL Services 7.1.5.6 VAX (sqlsrvmve6e071.zip) ? http://download.oracle.com/otn/openvms/rdb/SQLSRVMVE6E071.ZIP  0  2 ! SQL Services 7.1.5.5 Alpha (sqlsrv7155_amv.zip) ? http://download.oracle.com/otn/openvms/rdb/sqlsrv7155_amv.zip  !  0 ! SQL Services 7.1.5.5 VAX (sqlsrv7155_vmv.zip) ? http://download.oracle.com/otn/openvms/rdb/sqlsrv7155_vmv.zip  `    ! CDD 7.0.1 Alpha (cdda701.zip) ? http://download.oracle.com/otn/openvms/rdb/cdda701.zip         8   ! CDD 7.0.1 VAX (cddv701.zip) ? http://download.oracle.com/otn/openvms/rdb/cddv701.zip         0  # ! CDD 7.0.1.1 Alpha (cdda7011.zip) 2? http://download.oracle.com/otn/openvms/rdb/cdda7011.zip        @  ! ! CDD 7.0.1.1 VAX (cddv7011.zip)  ? http://download.oracle.com/otn/openvms/rdb/cddv7011.zip        2  - ! CODASYL DBMS 7.1.0.2 Alpha (dbmae2071.zip) 0? http://download.oracle.com/otn/openvms/rdb/DBMAE2071.ZIP       2  - ! CODASYL DBMS 7.1 ECO1Alpha (dbmae1071.zip) `? http://download.oracle.com/otn/openvms/rdb/dbmae1071.zip       %  - ! CODASYL DBMS 7.0.4.2 Alpha (dbmsa7042.zip) 2? http://download.oracle.com/otn/openvms/rdb/dbmsa7042.zip       2  * ! CODASYL DBMS 7.0.4.2 VAX(dbmsv7042.zip) ? http://download.oracle.com/otn/openvms/rdb/dbmsv7042.zip       0  7 ! Oracle Trace for OpenVMS 2.4.1 VAX (epc0241_vax.zip) W? http://download.oracle.com/otn/openvms/rdb/epc0241_vax.zip     2  9 ! Oracle Trace for OpenVMS 2.4.1 Alpha (epc0241_axp.zip) `? http://download.oracle.com/otn/openvms/rdb/epc0241_axp.zip        5 ! Oracle Expert for Rdb 3.3.1 VAX (rdbx0331_vax.zip) m? http://download.oracle.com/otn/openvms/rdb/rdbx0331_vax.zip    0  7 ! Oracle Expert for Rdb 3.3.1 Alpha (rdbx0331_axp.zip) D? http://download.oracle.com/otn/openvms/rdb/rdbx0331_axp.zip    k   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 08:17:15 +1300`* From: John Jansen <jjansen@tilgroup.co.nz>I Subject: Re: How Can a trailing Blank Page be stopped via VMS print Queue2. Message-ID: <3E664D3B.BF18FE09@tilgroup.co.nz>  L Thank you to all who have responded and helped with this problem. It is much: appreciated and you are all wonderful for taking the time.  L I now have our Oki 521 printers working without an additional page feed. The <Esc>]VMS;2<ESC>\0/ Did the trick once I put it in the right place.LU Initially it failed as I was not putting the reset module in the library in the right2U directory, i.e.  sys$library so changes I was testing were not having any effect.  If T any additional commands (or characters) were included in the reset command, it wouldW change the behaviour so that there was a leading page feed or it would print "VMS;2" on2 the next page.  V This resolves the problem for most of the printers and I must now turn my attention toS HP ink jets attached to jet direct boxes which have a similar problem but for which` this fix does not work.!  T Many thanks for your assistance and if you have any further tips please let us know.   Regards  JJ  :-) --@ ________________________________________________________________ John Jansen0   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Mar 2003 07:09:00 -0800u1 From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski)2. Subject: hp DECforms V3.3 Product Announcement= Message-ID: <857e9e41.0303050709.2ddb29dc@posting.google.com>0  E HP DECforms for OpenVMS is a software product for the development and0F deployment of forms-based user interfaces for interactive applicationsB running on OpenVMS systems. DECforms V3.3 is a maintenance releaseF demonstrating the OpenVMS commitment to product quality. DECforms V3.3E is available on the OpenVMS Alpha and VAX Q1  CY2003 software product-
 libraries.  `N DECforms Web Site: http://www.openvms.compaq.com/commercial/decforms/index.htm  0@ The HP DECforms Web Connector V3.0 (optional component) lets youC preserve large investments in DECforms-based user interfaces as you F deploy applications on the internet. Using DECforms Web Connector, you< can web-enable your applications with minimal programming orE application changes. In many cases, no changes are required. Benefits0$ of using the DECforms Web Connector:  `E  Extends the life of existing applications and preserves investmentsC  in existing application systems.:  Provides a flexible and secure solution for Web-enabling= applications with minimal programming or application changes.`C . Provides display support on character-cell terminals, all popular0% web browsers, and Motif workstations.0-  Provides full internationalization support.:  .D To find out more information about the DECforms Web Connector, go to5 the DECforms Web Connector site at the following URL:C6 http://www.openvms.compaq.com/commercial/webconnector/; ___________________________________________________________.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 17:58:13 -0500* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>8 Subject: Re: Linus trashes Itanium - he's scared of VMS!2 Message-ID: <x3ednRrfupCVHPujXTWc3g@metrocast.net>  K "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>'9 wrote in message news:3E65EBAF.9030805@nospamn.sun.com...` >2 >0 > Bill Todd wrote:' > > "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy"0' <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>.= > > wrote in message news:3E64D05C.9010001@nospamn.sun.com....   ....  6 > >>Xeon-MP cache sizes are largely irrelevant because@ > >>the P4/Xeon with 512K cache outperforms Itanium 2 with 3 MB. > >0 > >2K > > Not in, e.g., TPC-C:  the 512 KB Xeon is significantly behind, and even` the`J > > (slower-clocked) Xeon with 2 MB of on-chip cache doesn't *quite* catchC > > Itanic2 there.  So both Xeon versions are relevant to a general0 performanceK > > comparison.d > >E >n+ > I wasn't refering to TPC-C but to SPECintN > but you are right. >K > 77K TPM for a 4 CPU Xeon MP2 > 87K TPM for a 4 way Itanium 2N  I I'm pretty sure that there used to be 4-processor results for the 2.4 GHzEL Xeons with 512 KB of on-chip cache - said results being about 10% lower than0 the 2 GHz/2 MB cache Xeon result you note above.   >g > Both with MS-SQLserver >l0 > The most up to date Xeon number is only with a. > 1 P 2.4 GHz box and it turns in 18K TPM. One* > would expect the 2.8/3 GHz systems to be	 > faster.0  J As noted above, the amount of on-chip cache seems to be more important forI TPC-C than the clock speed (and IIRC the fastest Xeons still support only2 512 KB on chip).   >O3 > But then who uses TPC-C as a performance measure.2   Most of the world except Sun.`   >`3 > Point is that on Integer micro benchmarks Xeon is`7 > competitive against a similarly configured Itanium 2.`  G Then you should have so qualified your earlier, more general statement.M   ...0   > >>Xeon is in order > >2 > >2 > > I don't think so.N > >  >T6 > It doesn't support out of order execution does it ??  H Yes, it does (regardless of whether hyperthreading is enabled:  it's not hyperthreading-specific).0   >0 > >0K > > 92 ns is excellent, especially considering that Itanic2's *real* memorynJ > > latency with the zx1 chipset is not 110 (or 112, which I think was theL > > original official number) ns but instead over 150 (154?) ns:  turned outL > > that the original measurement used a stride which the system was able toG > > recognize and prefetch (of course, it's also possible that the XeonD number% > > you saw was similarly incorrect).2 > >2 >NG > 110.6 is the number HP still have up on their web site and I have notLB > found any references that suggest that this number is incorrect,  H Came up in a discussion on comp.arch a while ago.  Supposedly the HP WebL site was changed to reflect both the original and the corrected numbers, but that's just hearsay.   ...P  F > > That's all very interesting, but has absolutely no bearing on your originalK > > misstatement (which was that "Xeons cost Intel a lot less to build than2 IPF,L > > *with a 25% of the die size in a given process*" [emphasis added in case youvG > > had forgotten:  your original quote is still right up there above].0 > >2 >N >LF > Well no not quite, implimenting Itanium 2 in a 130 nanometer process, > should decrease the die size to ~314 mm^2.  G There's no need to guess in this matter:  Intel has already stated thatQK Madison's die area is 374 mm^2.  That, however, includes 6 MB of on-chip L3RG cache compared with McKinley's 3 MB:  since the cache consumes about 35DK mm^2/MB, if McKinley were shrunk to 130 nm its die area would thus be about0	 269 mm^2.0   ...2  B > So I guess we were both wrong with your 50-70% estimate being atD > the lower end more accurate than my 25% estimate and at the higher > end much less accurate.a  K No, you were wrong in your estimate of how large McKinley would be in a 1302I nm process.  If Paul DeMone's 140 mm^2 value for P4 is correct, then it's2E just over 52% of that; even if the 131 mm^2 value you came up with isOI correct, then it's still 48.7% - nothing like 25% and close enough to 50%2J for this discussion (the 70% high end of the range reflected a Xeon with 2G MB of on-chip cache:  assuming the same 35 mm^2/MB density, it would be`= 184 - 192 mm^2 - 68.4% - 71.4% of McKinley's size in 130 nm).`   > H > Of course one you add in the higher expected defect rate for Itanium 2C > you easily get to a 25% Itanium 2 yield at the same process size.F  G I'm beginning to understand why Rob constantly accuses you of spinning:CH that clearly has no relevance to your clear (mis)statement that the *die area* was only 25% of Itanic's.E   >`? > I don't know where this puts your an my relative credibility.0   I do.`   - bill   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Mar 2003 15:53:55 -0800t' From: del.duncan@intel.com (Del Duncan)mK Subject: Maximum Record Size Error, -RMS-F-MRS, invalid maximum record sizeD= Message-ID: <98342c9f.0303051553.7c5e2e9c@posting.google.com>'  B I'm trying to use an FDL to create and convert files but I get theE above error, even when creating a simple test file.    I'm attempting0D to create the files as Indexed, variable-length records, record size 25042.  @ In debugging this, I find that if I set the FILE-ORGANIZATION toD SEQUENTIAL, it then works, but if I set it to INDEXED, it fails.   IF did some experimentation and found that I could get it to create a new? file at 6500 but not at 7500.    The "OpenVMS Record Management5D Utilities Reference Manual" states that Indexed files can have appr. 32K records.  E I also played around with the allocation and extension sizes thinking25 there might be some interaction but it had no affect.g   Here is a view of the FDL:  2 IDENT   " 5-MAR-2003 16:44:56  OpenVMS FDL Editor"   SYSTEM)         SOURCE                  "OpenVMS"A   FILE"         BUCKET_SIZE             13"         CLUSTER_SIZE            17"         CONTIGUOUS              no!         EXTENSION               00"         FILE_MONITORING         no!         GLOBAL_BUFFER_COUNT     0e'         ORGANIZATION            indexed`E         PROTECTION              (system:RWED, owner:RWED, group:RWED,e world:RWED)r   RECORD#         BLOCK_SPAN              yes2/         CARRIAGE_CONTROL        carriage_return (         FORMAT                  variable$         SIZE                    7500   AREA 0#         ALLOCATION              5000#         BEST_TRY_CONTIGUOUS     yes`"         BUCKET_SIZE             13%         EXTENSION               40000c   KEY 0b"         CHANGES                 no!         DATA_AREA               0`#         DATA_FILL               100`#         DATA_KEY_COMPRESSION    yesO#         DATA_RECORD_COMPRESSION yes0"         DUPLICATES              no!         INDEX_AREA              0`#         INDEX_COMPRESSION       yes2#         INDEX_FILL              100 !         LEVEL1_INDEX_AREA       0E"         NAME                    """         NULL_KEY                no!         PROLOG                  32"         SEG0_LENGTH             30!         SEG0_POSITION           0e&         TYPE                    string       Has anyone experienced this?  	 thanks...D   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 00:24:17 -0500* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>O Subject: Re: Maximum Record Size Error, -RMS-F-MRS, invalid maximum record sizeE2 Message-ID: <V_ucna7R--MYRvujXTWc3A@metrocast.net>  4 "Del Duncan" <del.duncan@intel.com> wrote in message7 news:98342c9f.0303051553.7c5e2e9c@posting.google.com...`D > I'm trying to use an FDL to create and convert files but I get theG > above error, even when creating a simple test file.    I'm attempting`F > to create the files as Indexed, variable-length records, record size > 25042.  J From the FDL output below, it looks suspiciously like you're trying to fitL 25 KB records (albeit perhaps compressed somewhat) into 6.5 KB buckets.  Try' bumping up the bucket size to 50 or so.!  L (Though I'm not sure where the 7500 for record size came from - it has after4 all been around 20 years since I played with FDL...)   - bill   >eB > In debugging this, I find that if I set the FILE-ORGANIZATION toF > SEQUENTIAL, it then works, but if I set it to INDEXED, it fails.   IH > did some experimentation and found that I could get it to create a newA > file at 6500 but not at 7500.    The "OpenVMS Record Management F > Utilities Reference Manual" states that Indexed files can have appr. > 32K records. >2G > I also played around with the allocation and extension sizes thinking27 > there might be some interaction but it had no affect.i >2 > Here is a view of the FDL: > 4 > IDENT   " 5-MAR-2003 16:44:56  OpenVMS FDL Editor" >` > SYSTEM+ >         SOURCE                  "OpenVMS"` >2 > FILE$ >         BUCKET_SIZE             13$ >         CLUSTER_SIZE            17$ >         CONTIGUOUS              no# >         EXTENSION               02$ >         FILE_MONITORING         no# >         GLOBAL_BUFFER_COUNT     0I) >         ORGANIZATION            indexed2G >         PROTECTION              (system:RWED, owner:RWED, group:RWED,r
 > world:RWED)0 >2 > RECORD% >         BLOCK_SPAN              yes-1 >         CARRIAGE_CONTROL        carriage_returnD* >         FORMAT                  variable& >         SIZE                    7500 >2 > AREA 0% >         ALLOCATION              500!% >         BEST_TRY_CONTIGUOUS     yesu$ >         BUCKET_SIZE             13' >         EXTENSION               400002 >0 > KEY 0T$ >         CHANGES                 no# >         DATA_AREA               0n% >         DATA_FILL               100T% >         DATA_KEY_COMPRESSION    yesT% >         DATA_RECORD_COMPRESSION yesl$ >         DUPLICATES              no# >         INDEX_AREA              0T% >         INDEX_COMPRESSION       yesl% >         INDEX_FILL              1000# >         LEVEL1_INDEX_AREA       02$ >         NAME                    ""$ >         NULL_KEY                no# >         PROLOG                  3r$ >         SEG0_LENGTH             30# >         SEG0_POSITION           0U( >         TYPE                    string >` >2 >0 > Has anyone experienced this? >E > thanks...O   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Mar 2003 08:51:00 -08002- From: david.gabele@swagelok.com (Dave Gabele)0F Subject: Moving from Multinet to TCP/IP Services (LAT/NTY/TNA devices)= Message-ID: <bd0f1e10.0303050851.4ab7138f@posting.google.com>0  C We are considering moving from Multinet to "Compaq" TCP/IP Services0D for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.3.  I have some original code that usedC to use a LAT device, and is currently using a Multinet NTY device. `F The basic flow of the code is assign a channel, connect to the device,! read/write, disconnect, deassign.hA I made one small change to the QIO connect function code to get an? Multinet NTY device to work.  TCP/IP Services has a TNA device,0F however I get an error on the connect (invalid I/O channel).  Removing< the connect allows my program to work but I still feel a bit unconfortable.  E Has anyone else experienced this or other issues moving from Multinet` to TCP/IP Services?`   Regards,   Dave   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Mar 2003 14:49:43 -0600`- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: Re: MS Virus`3 Message-ID: <Rb2gqLcuJcVv@eisner.encompasserve.org>x  U In article <00A1C698.818A41A5@SendSpamHere.ORG>,   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:ea > In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIMENGGLAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:5F >>There was a post the other day about a virus masquerading as a patchJ >>from Microsoft.  Just got it here.  If I don't recognize mail, I read it> >>with vms mail, otherwise Outlook.  Here's what it looks like > G > There's a difference between a Micro$oft patch and a Micro$oft virus?   : The viruses have no problems with their installation kits.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 21:32:14 GMTd" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: MS Viruso0 Message-ID: <00A1C6BD.3DFC7C87@SendSpamHere.ORG>  c In article <Rb2gqLcuJcVv@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: V >In article <00A1C698.818A41A5@SendSpamHere.ORG>,   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:b >> In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIMENGGLAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:G >>>There was a post the other day about a virus masquerading as a patchYK >>>from Microsoft.  Just got it here.  If I don't recognize mail, I read itl? >>>with vms mail, otherwise Outlook.  Here's what it looks likeo >> eH >> There's a difference between a Micro$oft patch and a Micro$oft virus? >r; >The viruses have no problems with their installation kits.    :)   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM             n5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" e   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 23:46:59 GMTn( From: "Mark E. Levy" <mlevy70@attbi.com> Subject: Re: MS Virust. Message-ID: <T%v9a.330398$iG3.40274@sccrnsc02>  , <VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in message* news:00A1C698.818A41A5@SendSpamHere.ORG...H > In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIMENGGLAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:G > >There was a post the other day about a virus masquerading as a patch K > >from Microsoft.  Just got it here.  If I don't recognize mail, I read ito? > >with vms mail, otherwise Outlook.  Here's what it looks likeP >iG > There's a difference between a Micro$oft patch and a Micro$oft virus?>  K Yes. With M$ "software," the virus comes packaged in a box. The patch is an0C extra-cost "upgrade" that fixes anything in the virus that may haved/ accidently worked as advertised by breaking it.g   ML   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 02:42:15 GMTi1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>  Subject: Re: MS Virus 2 Message-ID: <3E66B4C9.199E8F56@firstdbasource.com>   "Barry Treahy, Jr." wrote: > ! > VAXman-@SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:g > b > >In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIMENGGLAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes: > >e > >eH > >>There was a post the other day about a virus masquerading as a patch > >> > >>L > >>from Microsoft.  Just got it here.  If I don't recognize mail, I read it > >n > >e@ > >>with vms mail, otherwise Outlook.  Here's what it looks like > >> > >> > >nH > >There's a difference between a Micro$oft patch and a Micro$oft virus? > >  > > J > Certainly, you should know better.  One you have to pay for the pleasure9 > of, the second is the gift that lives on forever... :-)i >  > Barrys >  > -- > A > Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIOp > C > E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028     " I know how to remove all MS virii: 		format c:tF and install Linux -- whereby you get a whole new set of bugs, features and viruses.   -- p Regards,  6 Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 19847 First DBA Source, Inc.    Registered Linux User #261163    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 16:12:22 -0500 & From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com>Y Subject: Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marveland Alpha Retaie8 Message-ID: <1kic6vcsu5uhbf167uce9kru049jhfkg1b@4ax.com>  E On Wed, 05 Mar 2003 16:24:11 +0000, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancys. <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote:  + Andrew you are a sick, sorry waste of time. B You completely ignore what's said and twist to change thiings intoD strawman arguments that don't match what I've said and don't address it.e  F Your argument so far boils down to I couldn't possibly have seen happy customers because:E     a)  Our own docs say they're slower (though, only on *some* apps) C     b)  You know for a fact how Oracle performs on all applicationslB     c)  You show TPC-C numbers that prove that it's slower for all
 	applications F     d)  And/or All applications are dbms applications (either that, or6 	you've re-scoped this discussion as another attempted7 	dodge in the hopes of boxing it into an area where youc 	feel certain to winB     e)  I have not written down all the techy details of our happy3 	customers because you want them as proof that theyl 	existC     f)  Our marketing said something like "these systems are faster 9 	than our older systems"  - oh, gasp!  wonder of wonders, 6 	it's not always true, so how could they possibly make< 	such statements.  Sun would certainly never make statements& 	that aren't always true in all cases.   Are you really that dense?  F But your statements of "general" performance problems still don't wash& because not all of the above are true.  D Just fyi, I have worked with Oracle, both DBMSs in fact (though onlyF as a dba on the Oracle Rdb product).  I'm fairly conversant in what it does and how it works.   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Mar 2003 15:08:19 -0800a' From: timasmith@hotmail.com (Tim Smith) % Subject: Re: oracle benchmarks on VMSs= Message-ID: <a7234bb1.0303051508.4d2da069@posting.google.com>e  p Hein van den Heuvel <hein_netscape@eps.zko.dec.com> wrote in message news:<3E63C5E9.88569D3F@eps.zko.dec.com>... > Tim Smith wrote: > - > > I see Oracle publishes some benchmarks ateG > > http://www.oracle.com/apps_benchmark/, but notably there is nothinglI > > for VMS - is that because Oracle writes to the filesystem, not directeJ > > to device file files directly i.e. VMS filesystem is a lot slower than > > raw devices? > . > It has nothing to do with (potential) speed.B > It is just a commercial / marketing decision mostly from Oracle.I > They decided there was not enough critical mass to maintain support forrI > the Oracle Applicaiton suite on VMS. The database itself is and will be4K > supported at one of the higher tier levels. Details are not up to me, butnJ > it used to be product release on VMS 90 days after first release. PleaseI > verify with Oracle. They may also choose to skip 'dot' releases. Dunno,rL > let's say they had 9.0, skipped 9.1 but released 9.2. Again, this is not aC > statement of support, just a line of thinking. Check with Oracle.  > J > The VMS Filesystem is actually an advantage! The VMS filesystem does NOT > buffer data.H > On Unix systems the OS tends to waste time and memory buffering OracleJ > data pages which are better managerd by Oracle in its buffer pool (SGA).J > On many Unix implementation, for ultimate Oracle perfromance once has toA > deal with hard-to-manage 'Raw Devices' to avoid said buffering.iI > On VMS you have the comfort of a file system for Alloaction, Naming and I > backups yet the speed of a raw device. On HP Tru64 Unix Oracle can (and J > will) use the DIRECT IO feature to get the same effect on single systems > as well as in clusters.b > G > > If anyone has older benchmarks that include VMS I would like to seel	 > > them.g > J > It would be nice to see some VMS / Oracle benchmark, but I will not hold > my breath.L > Benchmarks require major investment which both companies believe is betterD > spend on the products itself. VMS will offer comparable (ballpark)+ > performance as Unix on the same platform. L > It will not be 2x slower. It might be a little slower or a a little faster > depending on the application.aI > The performance will be close enough to focus on other, more important,eJ > platform decision factors: Cost-of-ownership, Reliability, Availability,- > Experience, Applications, Installed base,..m > C > Hope this helps some, but it is just an opinion from a guy in thee > sidelines.K > Be sure to contact officials at Oracle and HP for the official positions.u > 	 > Cheers,E >     Hein.i  E That makes sense, and I appreciate your comments.  The only problem IuE have is that I find that simple I/O operations are much slower on VMSrF than AIX.  I understand that this is a complex topic dependent on disk; subsystems, disk speeds, etc etc but take this for example:   C I have two systems, one a Alpha 4100 with VMS 7.1 and a RS6000 H-50!A both with 2GB RAM and 2 processors.  These systems were purchasedAB around the same time for the same purpose and I would term them asF comparable.  I did simple file copies from the same disk to same disk.E  While I do not have the disk speeds, I used an older disk on the AIXoE (4GB) and a newer disk on VMS (12GB).   I don't believe there was any  fragmentation to consider.  5 AIX: 297MB - 2MB/second, if repeated -  2.84MB/secondu  7 VMS: 297MB - 1.02MB/second, if repeated - 1.19MB/second   E I don't mean to bash VMS, I just am trying to understand if it really D comes close for I/O performance.  I've seen several places that haveD to through a lot of hardware at performance bound applications.  AnyE time I've done SQLPlus inserts they have been a lot faster on AIX.  IuC know that many people still prefer VMS so I am trying to figure outi why...   Tim    ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 11:44:24 -0800* From: "Jack Peacock" <peacock@simconv.com>6 Subject: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants2 Message-ID: <AuidnZEC66EEzvujXTWc3g@mpowercom.net>  5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message_, news:Q5ednUHaAJy3NvijXTWc3A@metrocast.net... >  those who wouldH > like to have a chance to register their opposition might want to do so > today. >rI I trust you will be equally vociferous in your opposition once Hussein isuL history and we get a good look at what he's done.  Funny we never heard fromE all the Stalin apologists once the world found out what he did in theeL Ukraine (today is 50th anniversary of a great day in history...Stalin died).J Myself, I'm glad I don't have to compromise my morals to support a guy who$ uses poison gas on his own citizens.    Jack Peacocko   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 17:19:06 -0500* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>6 Subject: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants2 Message-ID: <6KSdnb2u-5FD6vujXTWcpg@metrocast.net>  5 "Jack Peacock" <peacock@simconv.com> wrote in message0, news:AuidnZEC66EEzvujXTWc3g@mpowercom.net...7 > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messageD. > news:Q5ednUHaAJy3NvijXTWc3A@metrocast.net... > >  those who wouldJ > > like to have a chance to register their opposition might want to do so
 > > today. > >nK > I trust you will be equally vociferous in your opposition once Hussein isa3 > history and we get a good look at what he's done.t  L Despite your confusion about the content of my post (a careful reading of itD reveals no direct expression of opposition on my part, vociferous orD otherwise), I will indeed continue to oppose the proposed aggressionK regardless of what is later revealed - because what Hussein has done is nottK the primary rationale being advanced for the unilateral prosecution of thisvJ war (though of course Dubya and his thugs are throwing everything they can think of into the pot).C  J Somehow, the U.S. seems to believe that it has the right to take over whatF are clearly the prerogatives of the U.N. Security Council, despite theH objections of that body.  It assumes (without even bothering to claim itG explicitly) the right to unilaterally judge the intent of the Council'saL resolutions, unilaterally decide the degree to which they are being compliedL with, and unilaterally take action in its name based on that decision - all,) again, *against* the wishes of that body.t     Funny we never heard from G > all the Stalin apologists once the world found out what he did in therG > Ukraine (today is 50th anniversary of a great day in history...Stalin  died).L > Myself, I'm glad I don't have to compromise my morals to support a guy who& > uses poison gas on his own citizens.  G Perhaps your entirely reasonable disgust at the regime has clouded yourwL analytical ability.  I don't support that regime any more than you do, but ID also take grave exception to my own country acting as a rogue state.  I There is absolutely no credible evidence that Iraq constitutes a dire andeK imminent threat to the U.S., to any other nation, or even to its own peoplefE (since the internal character of that country hasn't changed since welK treated it as a valued ally in the 1980s - a time which included the poisonsI gas attack which you mention above, and about which we were conspicuously0K silent back then).  That would be the *only* justification for attacking itcH unilaterally instead of pursuing the matter through the Security CouncilI (which *is* a body constituted to make decisions about such interventionso* when the need may not be a immediate one).  L The irony is that our actions will only increase the desire of other nationsL to acquire weapons of mass destruction (and the means to deliver them to us)K as a deterrent to such unbridled aggression on our part.  So not only do we I lack legal and ethical justification for unilateral action, but it's more`G likely than not to be counter-productive from a practical standpoint as G well.  Unless the current Administration is far stupider than I give ittL credit for, it is fully aware of all these issues - and is actively ignoringC them because it sees domestic political advantage to be gained fromtI aggressive pursuit of what is the *only* activity it has engaged over its < tenure in office that has any political traction whatsoever.   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 23:47:04 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>C: Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease TyrantsJ Message-ID: <Y%v9a.172643$Zr%.106092@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  5 "Jack Peacock" <peacock@simconv.com> wrote in messagec, news:AuidnZEC66EEzvujXTWc3g@mpowercom.net...7 > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messaget. > news:Q5ednUHaAJy3NvijXTWc3A@metrocast.net... > >  those who wouldD > > like to have a chance to register their opposition might want to do sos
 > > today. > >R@ > I trust you will be equally vociferous in your opposition once
 Hussein isC > history and we get a good look at what he's done.  Funny we never 
 heard fromC > all the Stalin apologists once the world found out what he did in  thei6 > Ukraine (today is 50th anniversary of a great day in history...Stalin died).fD > Myself, I'm glad I don't have to compromise my morals to support a guy whoA& > uses poison gas on his own citizens. >    Jack Peacock     D Nobody is talking about supporting a tyrant. They are only trying to6 find means short of war to achieve the goals you want.  D What's wrong with placing 5,000 UN inspectors on the ground in Iraq,? running 24x7 wherever they want? If they are that plentiful andoB persistent, the Iraqi military/industrial complex won't be able toE make use of what it may have, unable to conduct any effective furthertF research or development of what they might like to have, and sooner orE later Hussein leaves office, voluntarily, via a heart attack, or getsvF a 9mm hemorrhage. It's cheaper than a war, easier on the poor citizensC of Iraq who don't care for the current regime, and less costly than F rebuilding the country afterwards. Let the UN pass a resolution sayingE that the inspectors get what they ask for from Iraq in 24 hrs. or thetF building they want access to will be destroyed. Period. Start with allF the presidential palaces and places in Tikrit. Same goes for access toF people they need to speak with - full unrestricted access or somethingB else bad happens. If the Iraqi military interferes, then full war.  B Don't forget that it's not only the US that has been victimized byC terror, and the rest of the world wants its voice heard too becauseeB the repercussions of a war would affect them too. All nations withF 'global' aspirations throughout history have operated under the dictum& that in diplomacy there are no friendsF or enemies but only interests. And usually it has been the reaction ofD anyone or any nation that has felt hard done by, rightly or wrongly,E as a result of those 'interests', to lash out. I'm not making excusesvC for anyone or any regime - it's just the way human nature works. It C even happens in the school system when a kid brings a knife to 'getnE even', when somebody 'goes postal', when a group decides that anothert group is 'evil'.  ( But nobody is talking about appeasement.    C Do the math - a war/occupation will cost $500 billion - don't thinkoC that it'll be cheaper than that for direct costs and infrastructure C repairs. And GWB will be spending the lion's share of that - that's B your money. It will be hugely inflationary for the US economy, andF will stifle domestic growth, and hurt the rest of the world too. ThoseD of you who have a bit of a historic and economic bent, and some age,F may remember the stagflation of the early/mid '70's, partly brought onB by the oil crisis of '73, but more from the hangover effect of the costs of Vietnam.2  > Now let's look at how that amount of money would be paid back.  A At its peak, Iraq was pumping about 7 million bbls./day, but it's_C currently about 2 million/day under the UN Oil for Food program. Ifp@ Iraq is attacked, one must expect that 5,000 Iraqi soldiers withE satchels of dynamite will blow-up all the wells, pipelines, and other B oil and transportation infrastructure. Goodbye 2 million bbls./dayA into the world market. The price of oil goes up to $60/bbl. Saudip@ probably would not increase production to fill the gap given theD politics of the situation, and they are really the only country withE the capability to turn the taps on that fast for that much extra oil.jE It would take several years to repair destroyed Iraqi infrastructure,t@ and the increased cost of oil to the US and world economy in the> interim will be crippling. Eventually oil production gradually% increases and prices drop to $20/bbl.n  D So now the US wants to get paid back...$500 billion divided by $20 =C 25 billion barrels to be pumped. Assume that the US takes 2 million>A bbls./day as reparations, 25 billion barrels divided by 2 millionfE bbls./day = 12,500 days to be paid back = 34 years. And that's before2@ you consider the compounding effect on the interest costs of theF 30-year Treasury bonds issued to finance this exercise. Admittedly theF $20/bbl. figure would initially be higher, but it's a round number and7 as good as anything for an order of magnitude estimate.h  F You sell your SUV and buy a used Toyota Prius instead, if you can findE one. Your taxes go up. Your mortgage interest rate goes up. Inflationw@ goes up faster than your paycheck. The draft is re-instituted toB provide troops for the army of occupation because the regular ArmyC will need to be camped out in Korea - so your kids are drafted. You_F start eating Kraft dinner instead of steak. You're lucky - hundreds of3 thousands, if not millions of Iraqi's will be dead.u    > I agree that Iraq is probably hiding stuff and that there's noC question that Hussein and his henchmen deserve to go, but right nowdF the only thing Iraq is doing to the US is not shipping loads of oil to refineries in Texas.  E As Churchill once said, "Jaw, Jaw, Jaw is better than war, war, war."tF Only we're not just talking - there would be credible threat behind anE appropriate UN resolution. Each day the UN inspectors are doing their3F job is one day closer to defanging Iraq and changing the regime. ThereB is currently a proposal put forward by Canada at the UN that wouldD provide all that is necessary, even war if necessary. Think about it in colloquial terms,# "You can't always get what you want  But if you try sometimes You just might finda You get what you need."e    ? Iraq is not threatening to turn Seoul into a molten puddle, ands? nuclear war with anyone anywhere its missiles can reach, unlike F another state which is only getting circumspect attention from the US.    ; One other comment.....Powell is the only guy in the currentnA administration that has real gravitas with the rest of the world, E unlike Bush and Rumsfeld. Had Powell stood up in the UN several weeksmB ago when he went to show the evidence of Iraqi non-compliance withB earlier resolutions and showed unequivocal evidence, all the otherD countries would have immediately stood shoulder-to-shoulder with the? US and Britain - of that I am convinced. But what he showed wasr
 equivocal.  D So let's say that through 'national technical means' the US has someC other information that proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that there_E are massive and flagrant violations by Iraq. Feed one or two of those5E facts to the UN inspectors, give them the latitude/longitude of wherenA to go and let the UN inspectors 'find' the 'smoking gun'. If thatHD happened once or twice, then the UN would have been seen to be doingF its job, the United States would be seen to be fulfilling its role andA promise to the world, and the rest of the world would undoubtedlyrF support the US. But as far as the public world-wide knows, neither theF US nor Britain have provided evidence of the 'smoking guns' to the UN.  B I'm waiting for the unequivocal, unfabricated evidence (unlike theE incident in the Gulf of Tonkin in 1964) and am willing to support if,nD as, and when it appears, as are millions of others around the world.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 01:06:12 GMTc% From: Don Sykes <alphase@pacbell.net>v: Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants* Message-ID: <3E669FC6.34B4802@pacbell.net>   John Smith wrote:  > 7 > "Jack Peacock" <peacock@simconv.com> wrote in message . > news:AuidnZEC66EEzvujXTWc3g@mpowercom.net...9 > > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messagee0 > > news:Q5ednUHaAJy3NvijXTWc3A@metrocast.net... > > >  those who wouldF > > > like to have a chance to register their opposition might want to > do sor > > > today. > > >oB > > I trust you will be equally vociferous in your opposition once > Hussein isE > > history and we get a good look at what he's done.  Funny we nevere > heard fromE > > all the Stalin apologists once the world found out what he did ine > the 8 > > Ukraine (today is 50th anniversary of a great day in > history...Stalin died).eF > > Myself, I'm glad I don't have to compromise my morals to support a	 > guy who ( > > uses poison gas on his own citizens. > >    Jack Peacocki > F > Nobody is talking about supporting a tyrant. They are only trying to8 > find means short of war to achieve the goals you want. > F > What's wrong with placing 5,000 UN inspectors on the ground in Iraq,A > running 24x7 wherever they want? If they are that plentiful andoD > persistent, the Iraqi military/industrial complex won't be able toG > make use of what it may have, unable to conduct any effective furthernH > research or development of what they might like to have, and sooner orG > later Hussein leaves office, voluntarily, via a heart attack, or gets H > a 9mm hemorrhage. It's cheaper than a war, easier on the poor citizensE > of Iraq who don't care for the current regime, and less costly thaniH > rebuilding the country afterwards. Let the UN pass a resolution sayingG > that the inspectors get what they ask for from Iraq in 24 hrs. or theeH > building they want access to will be destroyed. Period. Start with allH > the presidential palaces and places in Tikrit. Same goes for access toH > people they need to speak with - full unrestricted access or somethingD > else bad happens. If the Iraqi military interferes, then full war.  H Problem 1: The Iraqi regime can move things from place to place. As soonG as a palace is designated ok by the inspectors it can be re-loaded with D whatever they want. 5000 inspectors isn't enough especially, if theyH have to tell anyone in advance where they're going, which they currently do.]  F Problem 2: It will take more than Saddam dying or leaving. His son andB all the rest of the Baath party have to be removed, since the onlyA members he has allowed to live are ones that think just like him.Q  H Problem 3: Iraq is already supposed to be granting "unrestricted access"A to people who may be working on/with weapons. It obviously hasn'ta helped.   G Saddam can play games with the world for years, as he has already done,0F by granting a inspection here, or a dismantling there. The cat & mouse2 will never end while his group remains in control.   > D > Don't forget that it's not only the US that has been victimized byE > terror, and the rest of the world wants its voice heard too becausemD > the repercussions of a war would affect them too. All nations withH > 'global' aspirations throughout history have operated under the dictum( > that in diplomacy there are no friendsH > or enemies but only interests. And usually it has been the reaction ofF > anyone or any nation that has felt hard done by, rightly or wrongly,G > as a result of those 'interests', to lash out. I'm not making excuses E > for anyone or any regime - it's just the way human nature works. IteE > even happens in the school system when a kid brings a knife to 'get G > even', when somebody 'goes postal', when a group decides that another  > group is 'evil'. > * > But nobody is talking about appeasement.  B That's exactly what the French ARE talking about. To protect theirD relationship with Iraq and appease the arabs in their own community.$ Appeasement is their national motto.   > E > Do the math - a war/occupation will cost $500 billion - don't thinknE > that it'll be cheaper than that for direct costs and infrastructureSE > repairs. And GWB will be spending the lion's share of that - that's9D > your money. It will be hugely inflationary for the US economy, andH > will stifle domestic growth, and hurt the rest of the world too. ThoseF > of you who have a bit of a historic and economic bent, and some age,H > may remember the stagflation of the early/mid '70's, partly brought onD > by the oil crisis of '73, but more from the hangover effect of the > costs of Vietnam.   H I am old enough to remember that too. I am also old enough to remember IG was proved wrong when Reagan raised the sword toward the "Evil Empire".eF Many were saying the same thing then - i.e. he's a right winger who'llD start WW3. But he was right. When evil is confronted by strength, it collapses. h  E I agree that the costs will be high, but what will the costs be if we:D appease those like Saddam and allow him enough time to covertly makeG some nukes and sneak them into London, New York and Chicago. Waiting is C not always the answer. What if Israel had not taken out Iraq's nuke F facility 20 years ago. Where would he be now? What would have happenedA after the Kuwaiti invasion? Could we have gotten him out of thereN without a nuclear holocaust?     > @ > Now let's look at how that amount of money would be paid back. > C > At its peak, Iraq was pumping about 7 million bbls./day, but it'sRE > currently about 2 million/day under the UN Oil for Food program. If B > Iraq is attacked, one must expect that 5,000 Iraqi soldiers withG > satchels of dynamite will blow-up all the wells, pipelines, and other D > oil and transportation infrastructure. Goodbye 2 million bbls./day > into the world market.  F The pentagon is aware of that and working on plans to see that doesn't happen.   , > The price of oil goes up to $60/bbl. SaudiB > probably would not increase production to fill the gap given theF > politics of the situation, and they are really the only country withG > the capability to turn the taps on that fast for that much extra oil. G > It would take several years to repair destroyed Iraqi infrastructure, B > and the increased cost of oil to the US and world economy in the@ > interim will be crippling. Eventually oil production gradually' > increases and prices drop to $20/bbl.    A lot of supposition here.   > F > So now the US wants to get paid back...$500 billion divided by $20 =E > 25 billion barrels to be pumped. Assume that the US takes 2 millionMC > bbls./day as reparations, 25 billion barrels divided by 2 million@G > bbls./day = 12,500 days to be paid back = 34 years. And that's beforeeB > you consider the compounding effect on the interest costs of theH > 30-year Treasury bonds issued to finance this exercise. Admittedly theH > $20/bbl. figure would initially be higher, but it's a round number and9 > as good as anything for an order of magnitude estimate.5 > H > You sell your SUV and buy a used Toyota Prius instead, if you can findG > one. Your taxes go up. Your mortgage interest rate goes up. InflationeB > goes up faster than your paycheck. The draft is re-instituted toD > provide troops for the army of occupation because the regular ArmyE > will need to be camped out in Korea - so your kids are drafted. YoubH > start eating Kraft dinner instead of steak. You're lucky - hundreds of5 > thousands, if not millions of Iraqi's will be dead.I   A worst case scenario for sure!uH A best case is, Saddam falls quickly without all the hyperbole you claimA and Iraq becomes the economic and political jewel of the mideast.tH Surrounding countries are influenced by this and begin their own changes from within.   > @ > I agree that Iraq is probably hiding stuff and that there's noE > question that Hussein and his henchmen deserve to go, but right nowDH > the only thing Iraq is doing to the US is not shipping loads of oil to > refineries in Texas. > G > As Churchill once said, "Jaw, Jaw, Jaw is better than war, war, war."E  F Unless that just gives the bad guys more time to build better weapons!  H > Only we're not just talking - there would be credible threat behind an > appropriate UN resolution.  F What threat? If we don't act now what do we say next? Ok you guys! YouG haven't disarmed after our last 22 threats, over the last 12 years, but  now we really mean it!# I'm sure they'll have a good laugh.   , > Each day the UN inspectors are doing theirH > job is one day closer to defanging Iraq and changing the regime. ThereD > is currently a proposal put forward by Canada at the UN that wouldF > provide all that is necessary, even war if necessary. Think about it > in colloquial terms,% > "You can't always get what you want  > But if you try sometimes > You just might find  > You get what you need."0 > A > Iraq is not threatening to turn Seoul into a molten puddle, andEA > nuclear war with anyone anywhere its missiles can reach, unlikeRH > another state which is only getting circumspect attention from the US.  F A different situation which will probably involve China and Japan. One0 that should have our FULL attention - next year.   > = > One other comment.....Powell is the only guy in the currentLC > administration that has real gravitas with the rest of the world, G > unlike Bush and Rumsfeld. Had Powell stood up in the UN several weeks?D > ago when he went to show the evidence of Iraqi non-compliance withD > earlier resolutions and showed unequivocal evidence, all the otherF > countries would have immediately stood shoulder-to-shoulder with theA > US and Britain - of that I am convinced. But what he showed wasa > equivocal.  E Let's always give the benefit of the doubt to the murderous dictator,sE never to the country that saved and rebuilt Europe and Japan and sentd? troops to stop the disasters in Haiti, Yugoslavia and Ethiopia!h     > F > So let's say that through 'national technical means' the US has someE > other information that proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that there G > are massive and flagrant violations by Iraq. Feed one or two of thoseeG > facts to the UN inspectors, give them the latitude/longitude of whereoC > to go and let the UN inspectors 'find' the 'smoking gun'. If that.F > happened once or twice, then the UN would have been seen to be doingH > its job, the United States would be seen to be fulfilling its role andC > promise to the world, and the rest of the world would undoubtedly H > support the US. But as far as the public world-wide knows, neither theH > US nor Britain have provided evidence of the 'smoking guns' to the UN.  H Let's hope the smoking gun doesn't take the form of a mushroom in Europe
 or the US.   > D > I'm waiting for the unequivocal, unfabricated evidence (unlike theG > incident in the Gulf of Tonkin in 1964) and am willing to support if,oF > as, and when it appears, as are millions of others around the world.  : I'm waiting for a UN that could be trusted with such data.   -- b   Have VMS, Will Travela Wire paladin, San Francisco    (paladinATalphaseDOTcom)   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 21:24:39 -040000 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>: Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants/ Message-ID: <3E66A355.36002689@vl.videotron.ca>c   Be affraid be VERY affraid.i  % The end of the world is VERY close...t  E I think itis the second time I find myself agreeing with Bill Todd...p  L And if the war does start, the end of the world will be even closer. Eithert way, we're doomed.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 18:26:40 -0500* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>3 Subject: OT Re: National Moratorium to Stop the War 2 Message-ID: <ze-cnfMQDc4uGvujXTWc3Q@metrocast.net>  5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messager, news:Q5ednUHaAJy3NvijXTWc3A@metrocast.net...   ...h    those who wouldH > like to have a chance to register their opposition might want to do so > today.  G One possible way would be to join a petition which will be compiled and ? submitted tomorrow to the members of the U.N. Security Council:     http://www.moveon.org/emergency/   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 17:50:49 -0700v+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com>e7 Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Stop the WarS' Message-ID: <3E669B69.9040000@MMaz.com>N   Bill Todd wrote:  6 >"Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message- >news:Q5ednUHaAJy3NvijXTWc3A@metrocast.net...  >q >..i >a > those who would  >  s >.H >>like to have a chance to register their opposition might want to do so >>today. >>     >> >eH >One possible way would be to join a petition which will be compiled and@ >submitted tomorrow to the members of the U.N. Security Council: >m >  c >eH This is certainly not the place to be posting political 'opinions' that G are, IMHO, totally lame and typically liberal (ie. no back bone except g3 when its ok for Clinton to bomb aspirin factories!),   Barry0   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 01:06:34 GMTj7 From: brad@.homeportal.2wire.net (Bradford J. Hamilton)b7 Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Stop the War@. Message-ID: <uax9a.372419$be.342541@rwcrnsc53>  U In article <3E669B69.9040000@MMaz.com>, "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> writes:  <snip>I >This is certainly not the place to be posting political 'opinions' that  / >are, IMHO, totally lame and typically liberal I  M Perhaps not the proper place to post, but I note that you can't resist airingkN your own opinions.  Do liberals have less of a right to air their views?  WillN you lock us up if we air them?  If I wear a peace symbol on my T-shirt, will IM get arrested, as the lawyer who wore one in a shopping mall near Albany, N.Y.t did on Monday?  N Sorry if my rhetoric offends, but I'm getting tired of the neo-fascism in this country!   >(ie. no back bone except 4 >when its ok for Clinton to bomb aspirin factories!) >2 >Barry >n >h  A _________________________________________________________________y0 Bradford J. Hamilton			"All opinions are my own"/ bMradAhamiPltSon@atMtAbi.cPoSm		"Lose the MAPS"    ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 21:01:27 -0500* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>7 Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Stop the Warl2 Message-ID: <Nz6dnTzKZLlmNvujXTWcog@metrocast.net>  6 "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> wrote in message! news:3E669B69.9040000@MMaz.com...u >b > Bill Todd wrote: >a8 > >"Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message/ > >news:Q5ednUHaAJy3NvijXTWc3A@metrocast.net...s > >s > >..  > >: > > those who woulds > >s > >wJ > >>like to have a chance to register their opposition might want to do so
 > >>today. > >> > >> > >aJ > >One possible way would be to join a petition which will be compiled andB > >submitted tomorrow to the members of the U.N. Security Council: > >  > >  > >wD > This is certainly not the place to be posting political 'opinions'  L As noted before, neither my original post nor the one to which you respondedK advanced any explicit opinion.  And this is *exactly* the right place to beAH mentioning an issue which I feel is immediately critical to the world at? large (unlike the fate of VMS, for example) and where there arenL acquaintances (with whom I don't interact anywhere else) potentially of likeE mind who might be unaware of what's going on right now (as I was to ahE significant extent).  People who don't like off-topic posts have onlykG themselves to blame if they read them, especially when the subject linee+ makes their nature clear, as this one does.     thatyH > are, IMHO, totally lame and typically liberal (ie. no back bone except5 > when its ok for Clinton to bomb aspirin factories!)e  I So don't sign the petition.  And by all means disagree if you wish to:  IlJ don't have any respect for your opinion in this matter, but certainly feel& that you should be free to express it.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 20:12:51 -0600s From: brandon@dalsemi.com-7 Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Stop the War01 Message-ID: <03030520125100@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>c  K > >This is certainly not the place to be posting political 'opinions' that t1 > >are, IMHO, totally lame and typically liberal a > O > Perhaps not the proper place to post, but I note that you can't resist airingiP > your own opinions.  Do liberals have less of a right to air their views?  WillP > you lock us up if we air them?  If I wear a peace symbol on my T-shirt, will IO > get arrested, as the lawyer who wore one in a shopping mall near Albany, N.Y.r > did on Monday? > P > Sorry if my rhetoric offends, but I'm getting tired of the neo-fascism in this
 > country! >   G I agree with "Barry Treahy, Jr." - I joined the Info-VAX to match wits,cN exchange ideas, learn a few tricks, think a little differently about why I VMSK the way I do, poke a little good natured fun, etc - all about VAX -er- VMS,o% hmmmm, Alpha, ugh, Intel, ... Next???r  C I did NOT, however, join up to hear anti-war rhetoric or otherwise.tK I am in the reserves, I have my own opinions and I would love to tell you a'= thing or two, however this is a non-political venue - PLEASE!u  K If you have a beef with peace symbols, cops killing dogs, the war on drugs,i1 or other things, please post them somewhere else.m  P I want to read about VMS, VMS, VMS, nothing less than VMS - Thank you very much.  3 As a soldier, I pray for peace and prepare for war.r   John Brandon VMS Systems Administratord Dallas Semiconductor john.brandon@dalsemi.com 972.371.4172 wko 972.371.4003 fxr   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 21:39:50 -0500* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>7 Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Stop the War 2 Message-ID: <DMKcnXFqgI1nKfujXTWcog@metrocast.net>  & <brandon@dalsemi.com> wrote in message+ news:03030520125100@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com...e   ...s  E > I did NOT, however, join up to hear anti-war rhetoric or otherwise.   C Then you should have had no problem with my initial post, which was F informational rather than rhetorical in nature.  And as it was clearlyI identified as an off-topic post (in its subject line, which also made its K subject clear), ignoring it if you were not interested should not have beena
 difficult.  J Newsgroups are communities, and when an external event of importance comesJ up that may be of interest to some in the community it's not inappropriateI to mention it - though extended discussion should move elsewhere unless aoL large portion of the community is interested in participating.  For example,9 the moveon.org information came to me in a private email.   D I'm not sure there's much more to be said on the meta-subject of theD posting.  If people want to continue to discuss the root issue - theH apparently imminent war - here, because this is where the people they'reJ interested in talking with hang out, then that will likely happen, but I'm not advocating that.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 21:50:06 -0400s0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>7 Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Stop the War0/ Message-ID: <3E66A94A.F86E4BCD@vl.videotron.ca>e   "Bradford J. Hamilton" wrote:tJ > your own opinions.  Do liberals have less of a right to air their views?  M Is it permitted to be republican in philosophy (eg: pro business) and totallydL disagree with the current administration ? Seems like anyone disagreing withP the Bush Jr foreign policy is automatically labeled un-patriotic and/or liberal.  L Considering the human rights abuses inside the USA, considering the state ofM the economy, and especially considering the state of the US airline industry,aL it seems to me that the Bush Jr administration has done a lot of harm to theL USA economy with worsening situation should he push ahead with his expensive fireworks show in Iraq.i  K One example: bankrupt United Airlines, once the world's largest airline, isfL selling some of its now surplus 747s to a foreign airline. This mean 7 fewerH 747 Boeing will be building in the medium term. And then the cost of hisI fireworks show in Iraq will cripple the government's achievements towards = balanced budgets that were so hard to achoeve over the years.d  L This is why I fail to understand how pro-=business republicans could support such a government.   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Mar 2003 06:05:19 -0800t( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)5 Subject: Re: OT:  National Moratorium to Stop the Ware= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0303050546.688b2224@posting.google.com>y  d "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message news:<Q5ednUHaAJy3NvijXTWc3A@metrocast.net>...N > After last night's newscasts were full of descriptions of Dubya's increasingH > rush to war (perhaps to start next week, according to some pundits), IN > decided to take a look around to see what people were doing about it.  TurnsN > out that today (March 5th) is the date of a planned 'moratorium' (letters toK > legislators, work stoppages, teach-ins, civil disobedience - the gamut ofnN > possible responses), and since the next major planned demonstration (a MarchM > 15th march on Washington) may turn out to be after the fact those who woulddH > like to have a chance to register their opposition might want to do soC > today.  For further information, see www.internationalanswer.org.  >  > - bill  6 we have a nut in Iraq who wants to arm terrorists with6 nuclear suitcase bombs which would make 9/11 look like1 a picnic, and you are on this vms board promoting 8 flower power?  Didn't you learn anything from WWII Bill?7 9/11 was another Pearl Harbor, but you're still wantingn to appease murderers?r   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 00:15:24 -0500* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>5 Subject: Re: OT:  National Moratorium to Stop the Warm2 Message-ID: <EJmcncf6AeXyRPujXTWcow@metrocast.net>  5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in messageg7 news:d7791aa1.0303050546.688b2224@posting.google.com...)7 > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messager. news:<Q5ednUHaAJy3NvijXTWc3A@metrocast.net>...E > > After last night's newscasts were full of descriptions of Dubya's.
 increasingJ > > rush to war (perhaps to start next week, according to some pundits), II > > decided to take a look around to see what people were doing about it.g TurnswD > > out that today (March 5th) is the date of a planned 'moratorium' (letters tooJ > > legislators, work stoppages, teach-ins, civil disobedience - the gamut ofJ > > possible responses), and since the next major planned demonstration (a MarchdI > > 15th march on Washington) may turn out to be after the fact those whoS would J > > like to have a chance to register their opposition might want to do soE > > today.  For further information, see www.internationalanswer.org.l > >s
 > > - bill >a8 > we have a nut in Iraq who wants to arm terrorists with8 > nuclear suitcase bombs which would make 9/11 look like3 > a picnic, and you are on this vms board promotingu: > flower power?  Didn't you learn anything from WWII Bill?9 > 9/11 was another Pearl Harbor, but you're still wanting  > to appease murderers?   G Thank you, Bob, for making the quality of the opposing viewpoint clear.aI Although those who agree with you might counter with the observation thatl* even a stopped clock is right twice a day.   - bill   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Mar 2003 07:14:16 -0800d1 From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski)lM Subject: Press Release - PerfCap Announces the release of its latest Softwares= Message-ID: <857e9e41.0303050714.337028db@posting.google.com>o  F Nashua, NH, March 3, 2003. PerfCap Corporation, a global leader and anC established provider of state-of-the-art Performance Management ands> Capacity Planning software announces the release of its latest Software Product called FindIT.e  C FindIT automatically tracks all key IT hardware and system softwareaE resources such as Vendor, Model/Serial number, CPU type, OS versions,eF patches, installed software, licenses, disk, memory, network cards andF much more. It is supported on IBM-AIX, HP-UX, SUN Solaris, Tru64 Unix,* OpenVMS, and Windows NT/2000/XP platforms.  B The new FindIT software automatically gathers detailed informationB about all system software and hardware resources. Daily reports of; configuration changes, resource availability and high-levelcA performance metrics are automatically delivered to a user&#8217;seF browser, and can be customized to fit a company&#8217;s organizationalC structure; based on location, organization/project, application andDE platform The reports are automatically published on a FindIT web sitec5 and can be viewed from any corporate desktop browser.s  C &#8220;As the style of computing has evolved from a small number ofcA mainframes to a large number of distributed open systems, keeping.E track of an accurate inventory of corporate IT resources has become ai= challenging and expensive task&#8221; says Dr. Prem S. Sinha, ? President and CEO of PerfCap Corporation. &#8220;Our goal is tosE continue building and providing software solutions which automate the F process of gathering and reporting all system management data, so that; IT personnel can focus on solving business problems&#8221;.a  E FindIT is the latest addition to PerfCap&#8217;s Performance Analysism? Web Zone (PAWZ) and Capacity Planning software (eCAP) products.s   About PerfCap A PerfCap Corporation provides highly efficient, scalable and fullyT@ automated software solutions for system, network and applicationF Performance Management and Capacity Planning. PerfCap&#8217;s industryB leading software product PAWZ (Performance Analysis Web Zone) is aF web-based software that collects and automatically reports performance@ data 7x24x365. PerfCap&#8217;s software product eCAP brings overC several decades of queuing network modeling research experience for,= the creation of Capacity Planning models to solve &#8220;what  if&#8221; scenarios.  D PerfCap Corporation, headquartered in Nashua, NH, USA is a privately? held company. Engineers who have built performance and capacitytF planning products since mid 1980s at Digital Equipment/Compaq Computer$ Corporation founded it in July 2001.   Availability and PricingD FindIT is available immediately for shipment. Pricing is independent" of system size (# CPUs and speed).   										Each License US$  F                                                                       @                                                                 % 												1 to 50         51 to 500   F FindIT Departmental Agent (Windows NT/2000/XP)                          150.00             100.00  > FindIT Enterprise Agents (IBM-AIX, HP-UX, SUN, Tru64, OpenVMS) 		250.00             350.00a  F FindIT Server (Supports 200 &#8211; 400 Agents)                             1,000.00          2,500.00e  < For more information call +1-603-594-0222; or send e-mail to+ Info@PerfCap.com; or visit www.PerfCap.com.e   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 20:46:08 GMTI From: dittman@dittman.net % Subject: Re: Questions on SSH for VMSy7 Message-ID: <kmt9a.27992$ES3.3388@nwrddc04.gnilink.net>e   Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> wrote:nR > If the PCSI kit is the same as we got this morning, then please be advised that O > there are some small errors in the installation and configuration procedures.a > S > In the kit is a new version of the text library sys$library:TCPIP$TEMPLATES.TLB, sS > it is named TCPIP$TEMPLATES.TLB_SSH. The installation procedure should copy this tM > file as a new version to sys$library, but does not do so. You will have to lS > extract the file from the PCSI kit by hand, and place it in sys$library. Do this  ! > before trying to configure SSH.,  O To clarify, extract TCPIP$TEMPLATES.TLB_SSH and place it in SYS$LIBRARY renamed  to TCPIP$TEMPLATES.TLB  S > The configuration routine of the server also contains a small error. The service  S > SSH is defined (TCPIP SET SERVICE etc.) with the option /FLAG=TCPIP. This option  Q > is invalid. Define the service manually without this option before configuring o" > the SSH server, and all is well.  @ I removed the /flag=tcpip from TCPIP$CONFIG.COM and that worked. -- l Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 20:42:40 +0100  From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>% Subject: Re: Questions on SSH for VMSb2 Message-ID: <b45jvh$hj1$1@news1.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>  
 Thanks Leo !!s  O I was under the impression that the kit was for wider HP internal testing, but n@ if it is for us customers too, even better! Sorry for the mixup.   A few remarks:  P If the PCSI kit is the same as we got this morning, then please be advised that M there are some small errors in the installation and configuration procedures.l  Q In the kit is a new version of the text library sys$library:TCPIP$TEMPLATES.TLB, $Q it is named TCPIP$TEMPLATES.TLB_SSH. The installation procedure should copy this aK file as a new version to sys$library, but does not do so. You will have to lQ extract the file from the PCSI kit by hand, and place it in sys$library. Do this o before trying to configure SSH.t  Q The configuration routine of the server also contains a small error. The service iQ SSH is defined (TCPIP SET SERVICE etc.) with the option /FLAG=TCPIP. This option  O is invalid. Define the service manually without this option before configuring    the SSH server, and all is well.  ) We are now trying to get SSH running ....o         > : > Actually that notice we a bit premature but it's up now.L > We are please to announce the availability of the first hp TCP/IP ServicesF > for OpenVMS SSHv2 Early Adopters Kit (EAK). The SSHv2 EAK kit is now( > available for download. Please see the9 > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/products/securitya > L >  OpenVMS Security Web page, and follow the SSH link for additional details > and download information.  > M > Notification of future updates to the SSH EAK will also be sent through thet > ssh-openvms mailing list.i >  > - Leog > -- > Leo Demers" > OpenVMS Security Product Manager > Leo_dot_Demers_at_HP_dot_COM >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 17:32:33 -0500b* From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com>% Subject: Re: Questions on SSH for VMSo. Message-ID: <3E6634B1.31376.58FD0BC@localhost>  2 On 5 Mar 2003 at 20:46, dittman@dittman.net wrote:Q > To clarify, extract TCPIP$TEMPLATES.TLB_SSH and place it in SYS$LIBRARY renameds > to TCPIP$TEMPLATES.TLB   Thanks!  That fixed it.t  D I was able to do outgoing SSH immediately.  However, incoming would 1 always fail with "Permission denied (hostbased)."t  > I changed TCPIP$SSH_DEVICE:[TCPIP$SSH.SSH2]SSHD2_CONFIG. from:  D #       AllowedAuthentications          hostbased,publickey,password1         AllowedAuthentications          hostbased    to:e  D         AllowedAuthentications          hostbased,publickey,password1 #       AllowedAuthentications          hostbasedn   and things work!!d  
 --Stan Quayled Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------C Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363  Fax: +1 614 868-1671e1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147o= Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.come   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Mar 2003 07:16:29 -0800e1 From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski)t! Subject: Recent posts I have madeo= Message-ID: <857e9e41.0303050716.6b688fa2@posting.google.com>a  E Just a reminder that the information that I am posting on cov may not & have been circulated to all of hp yet.  
 Warm Regards,e Suei   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 19:26:26 -0600f1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>a5 Subject: Re: running autogen on alternate system disku' Message-ID: <3E66A3C2.483E8794@fsi.net>    "Bart Z. Lederman" wrote:  > [snip]6 > I don't think there is any supported way to do this.  5 I believe the operative keyword there is "supported".n  D Since the whole process is driven by logical names, having the right? names defined in the right places is likely to be effective, ifi5 unsupported; "supported" meaning if it chokes, YOYO.    H I've not explored this in any great depth, of course. Perhaps a hobbyist project for another day...   --   David J. Dachtera0 dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Mar 2003 07:14:52 -0800 $ From: john_20_28_2000@yahoo.com (jm)0 Subject: Samba params.c missing question OpenVMS= Message-ID: <c67e4bdd.0303050714.73994640@posting.google.com>i  C I can eventually connect to my Samba box (sometimes), but sometimeso% shares are listed and others are not.c    This message appears in the log:   [2003/03/05 09:28:08, 0]7 DISK$SWAP:[JYC.SAMBA.SAMBA-2_2_7A.SOURCE.PARAM]PARAMS.Ci ;2:(544)A   params.c:OpenConfFile() - Unable to open configuration file "":h         error 0n  > I am running OpenVMS 7.2-1 tcpip 5 (I think) and samba 2.2.7a.  B I have the params.c file in the source.vms directory, but I am not8 sure what do.  I have no disk$swap logical on my system.  
 Thank you.   ------------------------------  * Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 22:09:26 +0000 (UTC)- From: lewis@spyder.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)c< Subject: Re: SCSI cluster disk thrashing between connections. Message-ID: <b45sim$rbs$1@newslocal.mitre.org>   brooks_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Brooks -- VMS Engineering) writes in article <KNCmmF$csn4p@eisner.encompasserve.org> dated 5 Mar 2003 11:31:50 -0600:tI >Yes.  For the nodes that have both local and served paths to this device'D >(as MAZDA does), you can manually switch the path to use the served1 >path with $SET DEVICE/PATH=MSCP/SWITCH <devnam>.   ( Thanks!  It's working much better now.    L >What apparently is happening is that the local paths on MAZDA are disturbed >such that I/O is failing.    J By the high traffic on the shared SCSI bus I am guessing.  Is this normal?  + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.orgu> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 02:15:40 GMTg/ From: brooks@cuebid.zko.dec.nospam (Rob Brooks)t< Subject: Re: SCSI cluster disk thrashing between connections- Message-ID: <0fBsBz+GJZPm@cuebid.zko.dec.com>   / lewis@spyder.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis) writes:   lM >>What apparently is happening is that the local paths on MAZDA are disturbedT >>such that I/O is failing.    > L > By the high traffic on the shared SCSI bus I am guessing.  Is this normal?A 	Well, no, it's not "normal" in that it isn't supposed to happen.uE However, shared SCSI is pretty tempermental, so even under loads thatiD shouldn't cause problems, we've seen disks going in and out of mount< verification periodically.  I don't have an answer, however.  D The thing is that the other nodes on the shared bus should also haveD problems with that device, so it's somewhat surprising that at leastA one node is able to communicate with no problems.  It could pointrC to a problem with the HBA on MAZDA::, or a cabling problem, etc ...a  A If you are going to MSCP-serve disks for any length of time, maken@ sure that any relevant SYSGEN params are tuned.  MSCP_BUFFERS isI especially important on any serving system.  The default of 1024 (I thinkt6 that's the default as of 7.3-1) may not be sufficient.   -- h  M Rob Brooks    VMS Engineering -- I/O Exec Group     brooks!cuebid.zko.dec.comw   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 19:36:24 -0600u1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> @ Subject: Re: strange behaviour of SET ENVIRONMENT/NODE in SYSMAN' Message-ID: <3E66A618.3952B8AB@fsi.net>    Phillip Helbig wrote:  > ( > > > The question is "bug or feature?". > > >sL > > > The HELP says to enclose a list of nodes in parentheses, and indeed ifL > > > one doesn't it doesn't work.  On the other hand, if one uses a logicalJ > > > name (in SYSMAN$NODE_TABLE) for the node list, then one can omit the > > > parentheses. > >p  > > DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ mc sysman > > SYSMAN> doodleJ > > %CLI-W-IVVERB, unrecognized command verb - check validity and spelling
 > >  \DOODLE\o > > SYSMAN>r > >aH > > Note that the message indicates the CLI as the facility, not SYSMAN. > >sC > > Since SYSMAN uses DCL (CLI$) to parse the command line, this iso" > > expected, documented behavior. > >'9 > > > With, say, SET PROTECTION, one cannot leave out theSJ > > > parentheses---neither explicitly nor in the definition of a logical. > >mL > > Yes, because any list as a qualifier value must be enclosed in paren.'s. > > Entirely consistent. > J > Let me rephrase that.  Why can one use a logical such as NODE1,NODE2 (noC > parentheses in the logical name) but if written out one needs thei > parentheses? > I > Is it because SET ENV/NOD=<logical name> passes the logical name itselfeI > to SYSMAN, so it looks like just one node and not a list as long as thel > CLI is handling it?   ! Yeah - that's on the right track.h  ? See, you'd wanna read up on CLI$GET_VALUE. That's how a program G retrieves the value associated with a qualifier or keyword. In the case B of <logical-name>, the value is a single item. The fact that its aG logical is irrelevant to CLI$GET_VALUE - it's returning an element of ae command string, that's all.t  H Once the program gets the value, it may - at the programmer's discretionE - try to interpret it as a logical name, and explicit expression, ...   2 Have you tried specifying a list of logical names?   -- w David J. Dachteraa dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Mar 2003 10:37:48 -0800i' From: eugene@cse.ucsc.edu (Eugene Miya)  Subject: Re: unixR& Message-ID: <3e6643fc$1@news.ucsc.edu>   Followups to afc only.  ) In article <en88j-q3l.ln1@pez.jarai.com>,h. Brian 'Jarai' Chase <bdc@world.std.com> wrote:H >In article <b3qhii$nu2$4@bob.news.rcn.net>,  <jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote:, >> In article <rb26j-hcj.ln1@pez.jarai.com>,4 >>    bdc@world.std.com (Brian 'Jarai' Chase) wrote:I >> > Consider the role of subtle differences and diversity in the process 6 >> > of natural selection and in evolution in general. ...sF >> No company exists that has both enough manpower and time to it all. >eG >Agreed.  And Unix had the good fortune of AT&T deciding to license thetE >source to a wide variety of companies and educational institutions. p  = I am not certain that AT&T made a whole lot of money, so that : "good fortune" wasn't AT&Ts but maybe the world's (our's).  < AT&T was a regulated monopoly which was not allowed to be in6 the computer business much less the software business.= At the its height, something like 3 million people worked fore> the phone company.  At the same time with the increased use of< computer switching, they were a huge market onto themselves.? They had a phone system to run (I recall AT&T-only BOF sessionsb: at early Usenix meetings).  It was also at Usenix meetings> that it was revealed that DEC had a division solely devoted toD the telecommunications sector (no surprise to the MUMPS and hospital
 communities).l  J Hardware vendors were notoriously bad for delivering poor (buggy) software and hardware at times.    N >This is yet another strength of Unix, which allowed for those organization toJ >create a diverse collection of Unices with different features and pricingE >schemes, all available on a variety of hardware of even more varyingr >characteristics and costs.o   This merely sounds too clean.lJ People in schools were fine when a source license cost $150 (v6) then $300D (v7) as handling fees for schools, but when then first v6 commercial? license came out at $20K, industry people were outraged.  LatersD more complicated pricing schedule tables came out for vendors OEMing	 hardware.e    ; >> It was one of TOPS-10's strengths to ship its sources.  t  M >I'm saying it's hard to kill, because, really, no /one/ controls it anymore.a  D >A contrasting approach was that of DEC's.  DEC created non-portableJ >operating systems, whose source they kept control of, and which were tiedH >to specific architectures.  Again and again, the whims of the owners ofF >those OSes and the machines upon which those depended, were such thatK >those systems were killed.  The one exception being VMS, which still isn'tdH >terribly portable--it seems to require herculean efforts of coding eachK >time it's moved to a new processor architecture--but it is still kicking, h >more or less.  8 I would not ascribe anything malacious to DEC's control.< Internally their people have a particular view of computing.= So do the folk at IBM and other vendors, they have for them ahH comfortable work environment. They also have an installed customer base.C Few people thought of portability in the earlier days in computing,pC it was a shortsightness still common today (some DEC people given atB choice of the All-in-One office environment poo-pooed Macs and PCsC when they came out).  It's only when upgrade compatibility came outmD that portability became a problem internal to a company.  Previously> portability was a high level language issue which was a threat& to losing customers (external threat).  = >> to try to keep the "knowledge", a.k.a. sources, to itself;i< >> it was under the misconception that secrecy would protect? >> its investment and intellectual property.  This is one case r$ >> where the exact opposite is true. > G >Unix owes its success to the lack of those sorts of controls, and to anG >certain mindset behind it which, in many cases, directly opposes thoseu' >controls by embracing "their absence."e  H What Barb is saying was not unique to software or DEC.  That was the oldA way of doing business (some would say the same way) which involveeH IP: intellectual property.  Worked fine, so we thought, for text, music,J pictures, etc.  The difference came from software with bugs and liability.  J >Another notable example is IBM's PC and PC-AT architecture.  The computerH >industry exploded with PC clone makers becuase of this.  And, IMHO, theK >success of Microsoft is owed a more to IBM's open PC design than any great H >economic genius on Microsoft's part.  They did use this good fortune toH >their advantage, and also did much to fuel it, but IBM made it possibleE >(whether they intended to or not).  This is equally true of the more I >recent surge in popularity of x86 Linux and the *BSDs; they also rode in I >on, and continue to ride, the resulting wave of cheap and fast hardware.n   That's one way to look at it.lF The IBM guys were kinda clueless at the time (in some ways still are).I Whatever happens it's going to be an interesting future with a few bumps.     L Be warned that this discussion will bore DMR has he's heard this all before.   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Mar 2003 10:44:53 -0800k' From: eugene@cse.ucsc.edu (Eugene Miya)o Subject: Re: unixk& Message-ID: <3e6645a5$1@news.ucsc.edu>  * In article <b45f4m$6he$0@205.153.154.199>,- Patrick Scheible  <kkt@itchy.serv.net> wrote:tE >While converting wouldn't be painless, it would be easier than, say,n  >converting from TOPS-10 to VMS.  < That depends on how the application was coded under TOPS-10.G If the application programmer was trying to be too efficient (in memorynD [packed characters] and speed) and had only experience on the DEC-10C architectures (some called that arrogance), that would be difficultf@ (I've had my share [SPICE] of 36-bit to 32-bit conversions which I care not to repeat).  B If the application programmer was experienced in different machineG architectures, and coded for portability, a port might not be too hard.e  E The people in the Cray world of 64-bit architectures are just waitingdC for the rest of the world to catch up.  sizeof() is a great metric.'   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Mar 2003 14:25:07 -0600 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)u Subject: Re: unixn3 Message-ID: <xWZK0NtX9lPA@eisner.encompasserve.org>D  P In article <3e6645a5$1@news.ucsc.edu>, eugene@cse.ucsc.edu (Eugene Miya) writes:, > In article <b45f4m$6he$0@205.153.154.199>,/ > Patrick Scheible  <kkt@itchy.serv.net> wrote:cF >>While converting wouldn't be painless, it would be easier than, say,! >>converting from TOPS-10 to VMS.i > > > That depends on how the application was coded under TOPS-10.  F    Seems they kept storing 5 ASCII characters in a FORTRAN-10 INTEGER.F    If you change this to 4 so it will run on all your 32 bit machines,G    then your PDP-10 will prin t it  out  lik e th is.  (FORTRAN FORMAT  1    statements used to not be entirely powerfull).3   ------------------------------  * Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 21:06:58 +0000 (UTC)- From: lewis@spyder.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)j8 Subject: Re: Upgrade to OPEN VMS 7.3-1 - Patches needed?. Message-ID: <b45oti$quu$1@newslocal.mitre.org>   Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes in article <9dyWo8xu6c8E@eisner.encompasserve.org> dated 4 Mar 2003 15:47:16 -0600:_ >In article <b436fs$id4$1@newslocal.mitre.org>, lewis@spyder.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis) writes:iN >> I just did a 7.3-1 upgrade, and I had a few problems.  Maybe this will help >> you, maybe it won't.  >> nK >> 1.  The upgrade messed with my system parameters.  In particular, it set O >> DEVICE_NAMING and SHADOW_SYS_DISK to 0.  The second one was easy to find, as N >> none of the machines could even mount the system device.  For the first oneM >> I had to re-RTFM to track down why my port alloclasses were being ignored.5 > - >Did you have them entered in MODPARAMS.DAT ?y  M Those parameters are in a file called COMMON_PARAMS.DAT which is included by eI SYS$MANAGER:AGEN$NEW_SATELLITE_DEFAULTS.DAT, which in turn is included byp MODPARAMS.DAT.  Close enough?   J (I checked whether SYS$MANAGER:AGEN$NEW_SATELLITE_DEFAULTS.DAT was stomped> by the upgrade, but it wasn't -- my custom version is intact.)  I Anyway, the problem was before the autogen and reboot.  Each node had the J mounting-the-system-disk problem when it was trying to boot the new OS for1 the very first time so it could do the autogen.  o  + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.orgm> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Mar 2003 15:44:11 -0600_- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)_8 Subject: Re: Upgrade to OPEN VMS 7.3-1 - Patches needed?3 Message-ID: <lDhLgKPZbNrC@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ^ In article <b45oti$quu$1@newslocal.mitre.org>, lewis@spyder.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis) writes: > Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes in article <9dyWo8xu6c8E@eisner.encompasserve.org> dated 4 Mar 2003 15:47:16 -0600:` >>In article <b436fs$id4$1@newslocal.mitre.org>, lewis@spyder.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis) writes:O >>> I just did a 7.3-1 upgrade, and I had a few problems.  Maybe this will helpn >>> you, maybe it won't. >>> L >>> 1.  The upgrade messed with my system parameters.  In particular, it setP >>> DEVICE_NAMING and SHADOW_SYS_DISK to 0.  The second one was easy to find, asO >>> none of the machines could even mount the system device.  For the first onelN >>> I had to re-RTFM to track down why my port alloclasses were being ignored. >>. >>Did you have them entered in MODPARAMS.DAT ? > O > Those parameters are in a file called COMMON_PARAMS.DAT which is included by nK > SYS$MANAGER:AGEN$NEW_SATELLITE_DEFAULTS.DAT, which in turn is included byy > MODPARAMS.DAT.  Close enough?i > L > (I checked whether SYS$MANAGER:AGEN$NEW_SATELLITE_DEFAULTS.DAT was stomped@ > by the upgrade, but it wasn't -- my custom version is intact.) > K > Anyway, the problem was before the autogen and reboot.  Each node had thenL > mounting-the-system-disk problem when it was trying to boot the new OS for3 > the very first time so it could do the autogen.  v  9 That certainly sounds worth a formal complaint to Compaq.n   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 16:58:30 -0500 From: norm.raphael@metso.com8 Subject: Re: Upgrade to OPEN VMS 7.3-1 - Patches needed?? Message-ID: <OF77724E4B.9D92BBF0-ON85256CE0.0075E2A4@metso.com>    The upgrade checklist says:t  E        If you use AGEN$INCLUDE in SYS$SYSTEM:MODPARAMS.DAT to includeiG         file(s) containing additional parameter settings, and the files-F         which are being included are not on the system disk, the filesE         should be moved to the system disk and the AGEN$INCLUDE entrya,         updated to reflect the new location.  8 which certainly seems to indicate you did nothing wrong.  H Since you cannot upgrade a shadowed system disk, I am not sure about the+ value of shadow_sys_disk after the upgrade.o    E From:  lewis@spyder.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis) on 03/05/2003 04:06 PMr  9 Please respond to lewis@spyder.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)k   To:    Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com cc:e  ; Subject:    Re: Upgrade to OPEN VMS 7.3-1 - Patches needed?     9 Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes in articlenH <9dyWo8xu6c8E@eisner.encompasserve.org> dated 4 Mar 2003 15:47:16 -0600:F >In article <b436fs$id4$1@newslocal.mitre.org>, lewis@spyder.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis) writes:I >> I just did a 7.3-1 upgrade, and I had a few problems.  Maybe this willa help >> you, maybe it won't.o >>K >> 1.  The upgrade messed with my system parameters.  In particular, it setIF >> DEVICE_NAMING and SHADOW_SYS_DISK to 0.  The second one was easy to find, asJ >> none of the machines could even mount the system device.  For the first oneoD >> I had to re-RTFM to track down why my port alloclasses were being ignored. > - >Did you have them entered in MODPARAMS.DAT ?h  I Those parameters are in a file called COMMON_PARAMS.DAT which is includedt byI SYS$MANAGER:AGEN$NEW_SATELLITE_DEFAULTS.DAT, which in turn is included bys MODPARAMS.DAT.  Close enough?d  J (I checked whether SYS$MANAGER:AGEN$NEW_SATELLITE_DEFAULTS.DAT was stomped> by the upgrade, but it wasn't -- my custom version is intact.)  I Anyway, the problem was before the autogen and reboot.  Each node had the0J mounting-the-system-disk problem when it was trying to boot the new OS for/ the very first time so it could do the autogen.g  + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.orgi> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 16:24:09 -0500 From: norm.raphael@metso.com8 Subject: Re: Upgrade to OPEN VMS 7.3-1 - Patches needed?? Message-ID: <OFD23F13D1.E0FCF98C-ON85256CE0.00756EEC@metso.com>r  K try http://ftp.digital.com.au/pub/ecoinfo/ecoinfo/a731.htm for V7.3-1 Alpha H try http://ftp.support.compaq.com.au/pub/ecoinfo/ecoinfo/top.htm for the
 main page.  E [I think the problem was a missing "/ecoinfo" and ".html" s/b ".htm"]e  J From:  "Brian Tillman" <Brian.Tillman@notnoone.notnohow.com> on 03/05/2003        01:43 PMi  G Please respond to "Brian Tillman" <Brian.Tillman@notnoone.notnohow.com>o   To:    Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com cc:a  ; Subject:    Re: Upgrade to OPEN VMS 7.3-1 - Patches needed?m    0 >http://ftp.digital.com.au/pub/ecoinfo/a731.html   That page says to go touG http://ftp.support.compaq.com.au/pub/ecoinfo/a731.html, but trying thats" leads to a "page not found" error. --I Brian Tillman         Internet: Brian.Tillman at smiths-aerospace dot com 5 Smiths Aerospace  Addresses modified to prevent SPAM.i@ 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS Replace "at" with "@", "dot" with "." Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991 8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 00:13:43 GMT8, From: "James Cameron" <james.cameron@hp.com>8 Subject: Re: Upgrade to OPEN VMS 7.3-1 - Patches needed?3 Message-ID: <pan.2003.03.06.00.13.37.655844@hp.com>b  8 On Wed, 05 Mar 2003 13:43:51 +0000, Brian Tillman wrote: > That page says to go todI > http://ftp.support.compaq.com.au/pub/ecoinfo/a731.html, but trying thaty$ > leads to a "page not found" error.   The correct link iss  = http://ftp.support.compaq.com.au/pub/ecoinfo/ecoinfo/a731.htmt  E Norm's link that Brian tried was wrong.  We've never had an a731.htmlnB file.  Since the content was to be carved onto a CD-ROM for use by: customers who attended our roadshows, we always used .htm.  = The fact that it leads to a page not found error is my fault.i  G The ftp.digital.com.au URLs should not have been working at all.  I had,J the Alias for /pub in the general configuration for Apache, rather than in> the virtual server entry.  It was overriding the 404 redirect.  H I've changed that now.  All ftp.digital.com.au URLs should lead you to a5 manual redirect page, where you will be given either;   I (a) a link to where the document has moved, if my script can see that thes file actually exists, or;   - (b) a statement that the page does not exist.-  B My script used to make a guess of what the link should be, withoutF checking to see if the file existed.  I've changed it to check for the file.   J Thank you to Norm and Brian for bringing this to my attention by mail.  ItH reminds me yet again that this is enterprise customer space, where every- problem should be fixed rather than rebooted.     "Can I close the call now?"  ;-)   --
 James Camerons   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 21:30:03 -0500k2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)8 Subject: Re: Upgrade to OPEN VMS 7.3-1 - Patches needed?L Message-ID: <rdeininger-0503032130040001@user-105n9lc.dialup.mindspring.com>  C In article <pan.2003.03.06.00.13.37.655844@hp.com>, "James Cameron"o <james.cameron@hp.com> wrote:h    H >The ftp.digital.com.au URLs should not have been working at all.  I hadK >the Alias for /pub in the general configuration for Apache, rather than in ? >the virtual server entry.  It was overriding the 404 redirect.g > I >I've changed that now.  All ftp.digital.com.au URLs should lead you to al6 >manual redirect page, where you will be given either; >c  K >Thank you to Norm and Brian for bringing this to my attention by mail.  IttI >reminds me yet again that this is enterprise customer space, where everyn. >problem should be fixed rather than rebooted. >-! >"Can I close the call now?"  ;-)0  	 Alas, no.   E I plucked the ftp.digital.com.au link from the www.openvms.compaq.comrI page; it is still stale there.  You might want to send Warren the correct> URL.  
 This page:.    http://h71000.www7.hp.com/serv_support.html% (which until recently would have beene4    http://www.openvms.compaq.com/serv_support.html ) contains the link<9     http://ftp.digital.com.au/pub/ecoinfo/ecoinfo/top.htmg which now redirects to?    http://ftp.support.compaq.com.au/pub/ecoinfo/ecoinfo/top.htms   Ain't link rot wonderful?g   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 03:01:30 GMTe, From: "James Cameron" <james.cameron@hp.com>8 Subject: Re: Upgrade to OPEN VMS 7.3-1 - Patches needed?3 Message-ID: <pan.2003.03.06.03.01.27.151988@hp.com>s  ; On Wed, 05 Mar 2003 21:30:03 +0000, Robert Deininger wrote:aG > I plucked the ftp.digital.com.au link from the www.openvms.compaq.comoK > page; it is still stale there.  You might want to send Warren the correctt > URL.   Thanks, will do.   --
 James Cameront   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 00:14:37 -0500n+ From: michael tessman <matessman@yahoo.com> 6 Subject: VAXstation 4000 VLC VMS 5.5-2 Boot Parameters8 Message-ID: <d6kd6vgdsu6o5h8bsunv68a1lp0tt3mdu0@4ax.com>  C I have an old 4000 VLC running VMS 5.5-2 and would like to have the D machine boot up without benefit of keyboard or mouse and then accessD it via telnet and nfs over the lan.  right now it needs the keyboardA plugged in and i have to type "boot" when i power it up. once ucxeE comes up i can telnet it to it.  does anybody know the boot parameteroF settings necessary to do this?  the system admin documentation has not been seen for a while.   thanks much...   ...mike tessmank matessman@yahoo.como   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Mar 2003 14:13:28 -0600t; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)@! Subject: Re: VMS Backup solutions 3 Message-ID: <jENhqMwcmVyM@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  a In article <bfRNjItD9tX3@eisner.encompasserve.org>, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:e > > > 	It would be a poor system that requires two backups to make > 	a second tape.   B    Surely if I can have a disk die during backup I believe it also.    possible to have a tape die during cloning.  C    And it is a common feeature of low cost systems to have only onec    tape drive.   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Mar 2003 14:18:03 -0600n; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)w! Subject: Re: VMS Backup solutionsi3 Message-ID: <XpqwxNuo6O9a@eisner.encompasserve.org>s  X In article <3E6625D5.4040107@nospamn.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy writes:  C >>    Guess again.  I HAVE restored VMS backups from damaged tapes,, >>    no data loss.d >> i > 8 > Well of course, but that depends on whats on the tape.  B    You still don't get it.  The reason I could restore data from aH    damaged tape was because it had a VMS BACKUP.  VMS BACKUP is designed    to deal with this.     / > So in this case OpenVMS wouldn't have helped.o  E    It not only would help, it DID help.  The only copy on hand, whichsD    had large numbers of bad tape spots DID restore ALL the backed-up.    data because VMS BACKUP made sure it could.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 16:25:15 -0500 & From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com>! Subject: Re: VMS Backup solutionsw8 Message-ID: <emqc6vsjuvtbo2p52ednjhsl1i4okl7ts2@4ax.com>  E On 5 Mar 2003 08:49:12 -0600, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)e wrote:  b >In article <841c6v04k6e31li53a76gu8p7snbgis1r7@4ax.com>, jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com> writes: >nG >> And, in response to Larry's note about other OpenVMS disk with alias A >> entries.... OUCH!  I've never needed to implement them for anyeF >> application I've managed, but I can empathize with the problem that >> will present. > I >But have you ever managed a system and implemented a method to _prevent_n >users from creating aliases ?  A On most of the systems, users' wouldn't know how to spell DCL, soaD alias entries would be very, very rare.  If there's a way to prevent@ this, that'd be good to implement (note:  I realize that you canD modify dcltables so remove the "/enter" command from "set file", but> that can be difficult/unsupported through upgrades & patches).   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Mar 2003 15:27:39 -0600n+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) ! Subject: Re: VMS Backup solutionso3 Message-ID: <BaMHDBHqt2dx@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  q In article <jENhqMwcmVyM@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:sc > In article <bfRNjItD9tX3@eisner.encompasserve.org>, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:  >>  ? >> 	It would be a poor system that requires two backups to make  >> 	a second tape. 5 > D >    Surely if I can have a disk die during backup I believe it also0 >    possible to have a tape die during cloning. >   B 	Of course.  But at that point you go back and make another backup< 	of the disk.  Now we head to the corner case of both things 	happening.  okay.  E >    And it is a common feeature of low cost systems to have only onel >    tape drive.  ; 	Low cost?  Are we soon to start talking about Linux backupe 	solutions too?- 			- 				Rob-   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 16:29:15 -0500& From: "Daniel Allen" <dallen@nist.gov>! Subject: RE: VMS Backup solutionsc: Message-ID: <BCEGLBGJDODLELBJIADKKEBECGAA.dallen@nist.gov>  E Can't rememeber what DECUS it was but VERY early in the VMS years oneaG of the convention demos involved backing up files using some new BACKUPrK utility, unloading the tape, snipping a chunk out, taping it back together,:; and restoring the BACKUP. I wonder if it's still around ;-).   Dans   > -----Original Message-----D > From: Bob Koehler [mailto:koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org]) > Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 3:18 PMh > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com # > Subject: Re: VMS Backup solutionse >  > A > In article <3E6625D5.4040107@nospamn.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison n > SUNUK Consultancy writes:a > E > >>    Guess again.  I HAVE restored VMS backups from damaged tapes,l > >>    no data loss.o > >> s > > : > > Well of course, but that depends on whats on the tape. > D >    You still don't get it.  The reason I could restore data from aJ >    damaged tape was because it had a VMS BACKUP.  VMS BACKUP is designed >    to deal with this.    > 1 > > So in this case OpenVMS wouldn't have helped.m > G >    It not only would help, it DID help.  The only copy on hand, whichaF >    had large numbers of bad tape spots DID restore ALL the backed-up0 >    data because VMS BACKUP made sure it could. >    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Mar 2003 15:45:33 -0600t- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)b! Subject: Re: VMS Backup solutions,3 Message-ID: <3NCKwKihQ$gD@eisner.encompasserve.org>   a In article <emqc6vsjuvtbo2p52ednjhsl1i4okl7ts2@4ax.com>, jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com> writes:aG > On 5 Mar 2003 08:49:12 -0600, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)t > wrote: > c >>In article <841c6v04k6e31li53a76gu8p7snbgis1r7@4ax.com>, jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com> writes:i >>H >>> And, in response to Larry's note about other OpenVMS disk with aliasB >>> entries.... OUCH!  I've never needed to implement them for anyG >>> application I've managed, but I can empathize with the problem thato >>> will present.  >>J >>But have you ever managed a system and implemented a method to _prevent_ >>users from creating aliases ?V > C > On most of the systems, users' wouldn't know how to spell DCL, sotF > alias entries would be very, very rare.  If there's a way to preventB > this, that'd be good to implement (note:  I realize that you canF > modify dcltables so remove the "/enter" command from "set file", but@ > that can be difficult/unsupported through upgrades & patches).  G Such an approach also would not prevent third party software from doingiC it by QIO calls.  (One can prevent local users from doing it by notv allowing access to compilers.)   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Mar 2003 13:48:35 -0700o1 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) ! Subject: RE: VMS Backup solutionss- Message-ID: <Eb8A0ZDoaAmS@malvm7.mala.bc.ca.>   ; In article <BCEGLBGJDODLELBJIADKKEBECGAA.dallen@nist.gov>,  ,     "Daniel Allen" <dallen@nist.gov> writes:  G > Can't rememeber what DECUS it was but VERY early in the VMS years one I > of the convention demos involved backing up files using some new BACKUP>M > utility, unloading the tape, snipping a chunk out, taping it back together,o= > and restoring the BACKUP. I wonder if it's still around ;-)  >   @    My former boss went to work as a trainer for Digital and said/ that he regularly did that demo in his courses.T  ?    Though this works well with 9 track tapes it seems that moree> "modern" tapes are too clever for their own good and it can be? hard/impossible to get them to skip over a bad spot on the tape.  so that Backup can do its magic.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 21:43:11 GMTo3 From: "James T. Sprinkle" <oicmrsnakes@hotmail.com>e Subject: VMS Question???. Message-ID: <Pbu9a.1$Si.351@news-west.eli.net>  J Hi!  I worked with VMS in college several years back on both VAX and AlphaC architecture.  I am considering getting a hobby copy of VMS and was1G wondering if it would work on a DecStation?  Also, anybody know where I3I could look for used VAX/Alpha hardware at a reasonable price?  Thanks for-	 any help!-   JaYmZ-   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 13:41:31 -0800$ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> Subject: RE: VMS Question???0 Message-ID: <01C2E31C.F3488200@sulfer.icius.com>  B You can almost always find Alphas and VAXes on eBay, some for veryG little money. A few Alphas can't run VMS though, so look up their specs- on the hp website.   Shane    -----Original Message-----8 From: James T. Sprinkle [mailto:oicmrsnakes@hotmail.com]' Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 1:43 PMe To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com- Subject: VMS Question???    D Hi!  I worked with VMS in college several years back on both VAX and AlphaoC architecture.  I am considering getting a hobby copy of VMS and waspG wondering if it would work on a DecStation?  Also, anybody know where IeE could look for used VAX/Alpha hardware at a reasonable price?  Thanksi foru	 any help!u   JaYmZm   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 22:02:13 GMT,4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk> Subject: Re: VMS Question???/ Message-ID: <3E6673BA.B639238@blueyonder.co.uk>n   "James T. Sprinkle" wrote: > L > Hi!  I worked with VMS in college several years back on both VAX and AlphaE > architecture.  I am considering getting a hobby copy of VMS and wasuI > wondering if it would work on a DecStation?  Also, anybody know where I5K > could look for used VAX/Alpha hardware at a reasonable price?  Thanks forx > any help!  >  > JaYmZo  U VMS does not run on the DECStation line with MIPS processors, if thats what you mean.0  I You can run the simh VAX emulator on Windows or unix if you just want to (1 play with VMS and are happy with the VAX version.n   regards,   -- h tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk g  H * PLEASE NOTE tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk address is NO LONGER VALID *   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 17:09:32 -0500$ From: Mike Duffy <Duffy@process.com> Subject: RE: VMS Question???J Message-ID: <63D30D6E10CFD11190A90000F805FE860492B062@lespaul.process.com>   > -----Original Message-----: > From: James T. Sprinkle [mailto:oicmrsnakes@hotmail.com]) > Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 4:43 PM> > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comg > Subject: VMS Question??? >  > ? > Hi!  I worked with VMS in college several years back on both r > VAX and Alpha6E > architecture.  I am considering getting a hobby copy of VMS and wass= > wondering if it would work on a DecStation?  Also, anybody   > know where I@ > could look for used VAX/Alpha hardware at a reasonable price? 
 >  Thanks forb > any help!  >  > JaYmZe >   A Previous posters answered the VAX/Alpha portion of your question.h  8 The DECstation systems use MIPS R2000/R3000 CPUs and ran: ULTRIX originally.  I don't think there was ever a product/ under the name "DECstation" that could run VMS.t  6 (My 1991 catalog trumpets the DECstation 3100 and 50005 systems: "... from 11.3 to 18.5 SPECmarks, but pricesg1 for an entry-level system are as low as $4,995"!)    -Mike DuffyS   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 00:16:53 GMTu# From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)t Subject: Re: VMS Question???- Message-ID: <Vrw9a.18$q12.5@news.cpqcorp.net>t  d In article <Pbu9a.1$Si.351@news-west.eli.net>, "James T. Sprinkle" <oicmrsnakes@hotmail.com> writes:K :Hi!  I worked with VMS in college several years back on both VAX and Alpha"D :architecture.  I am considering getting a hobby copy of VMS and was. :wondering if it would work on a DecStation?    F   No.  DECstation boxes used MIPS or Intel x86 processors, and OpenVMS&   is not supported on either of these.   :Also, anybody know where I > :could look for used VAX/Alpha hardware at a reasonable price?  @   VAX emulators are available for Windows systems, and the usual@   sources of used hardware -- and searching for used hardware -->   apply.  Google for websites, and Google for newsgroups, etc.A   There are various used-equipment sites that post messages here, 9   and (as others have mentioned) I expect eBay has boxes.R  @   On a semi-related note, the OpenVMS Frequently Asked Questions?   (FAQ) is available at the HP OpenVMS website and elsewhere.  n   See:  '     http://www.hp.com/products/openvms/E  @   The FAQ has answers to various common OpenVMS questions -- the@   next edition of the FAQ has better coverage of the emulators.     N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------J       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.comN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 04:23:03 GMT / From: "Richard L. Dyson" <rick-dyson@uiowa.edu>e Subject: Re: VMSTAR question( Message-ID: <3E66CD2C.9030305@uiowa.edu>   Farrell, Michael wrote: 3 > I'm hoping someone can help us out with this one.v > = > We have to supply data to one of our customers using TAR.  t7 > So we have installed VMSTAR and it is VMS TAR V3.3-4.S$ > When I give the following command: > < > tar -cwvf output.tar PB12_020301_01R_CAP_XXXX_LD_0001.CAD  > I > the program just loops constantly repeating the input filename over and  > over.e > L > When I kill this run, and look at the tar file using DUMP, it appears thatL > header information for the data file is written over and over again.  None4 > of the input file's data is found in the TAR file. > 3 > This is running on an ES45 running OpenVMS 7.3-1.n >  > Has anyone else seen this?  K Yes.  I think I heard of a fix, but have not gotten it.  I was more focusedmM on CSwing and have gotten a pretty much cleaned up version.  At least all the  major parts are working again!  M If the VMSTAR problem for OpenVMS v7.3-1 has been fixed, would someone pleaser
 post here!   rick -- TJ Richard L. Dyson                                      rick-dyson@uiowa.eduK   _   _  _____                      http://www-pi.physics.uiowa.edu/~dyson/hJ | | | ||_   _|  Systems Administrator III     INFORMM-Cerner Systems Group< | | | |  | |    The University of Iowa Hospitals and ClinicsJ | \_/ | _| |_   Information Systems Dept. BT1000 GH   Office: 319/384-7016K   \___/ |_____|  Iowa City, IA 52242-1052                 FAX: 319/384-7020 E                  (Consulting to the Physics and Astronomy Department)t   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Mar 2003 19:00:30 -0800p1 From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski)- Subject: Re: [OT}:to Sue= Message-ID: <857e9e41.0303051900.12094c04@posting.google.com>    Dear Kesave,  D Do you know if this was an add done by HP or by Oracle?  There was a0 VMS add in the Oracle magazine a few months ago.  
 warm regards,c sued     Kesav Tadimeti <Kesav_Tadimeti@KeaneIndia.com> wrote in message news:<8EA11405E59BD611BA7100104B93C260FDDBAF@exdel01.del.mgsl.com>...>	 > Hi Sue,lN > I remember your saying in a recent post that HP is not advertising its OSes.H > I refer to ORACLE magazine's Jan-Feb 2003 edition. I happened to see a; > special ad section devoted to HP-UX 11i ( & ORacle 11i). o >  > Perhaps I am wrong.  > Cheers...r > 9 > +-----------------------------------------------------+ 2 > 	KEANE INDIA LIMITED                            2 > 	E9 - E12, SDF                                  3 > 	NEPZ, NOIDA 201 305                             "2 > 	U.P, INDIA                                     8 >                                                       2 > 	e-mail: kesav_tadimeti@keaneindia.com          2 > 	phone: +91-120-2568210(371)                    7 >       Men are from MACs, Women are from VMS           9 > +-----------------------------------------------------+m   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.127 ************************