1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 07 Mar 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 129       Contents:: Advanced Server 7.3A vs 7.2 file name handing differences? Alpha 2100a  Re: Alpha 2100a P Re: Arguing about editors (was Re: EDT and command tables have invalid format (w( Re: Can't browse Samba shares on OpenVMS( Re: Can't browse Samba shares on OpenVMS( Re: Can't browse Samba shares on OpenVMS Re: Carly's feedback link  Re: Carly's feedback link 6 Re: Editor wars - Was: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?6 Re: Editor wars - Was: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?6 Re: Editor wars - Was: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ? Re: Fibre Channel and SCS ; Re: hobbiest RDB/Sql*Services security (unrelated question) ; Re: hobbiest RDB/Sql*Services security (unrelated question) ) Re: hp DECforms V3.3 Product Announcement 4 Re: HP killing Golden Eggs- future of goose unknown. HSZ monitor from VMS?  Re: HSZ monitor from VMS?  Re: HSZ monitor from VMS?  Re: HSZ monitor from VMS?  Re: HSZ monitor from VMS? F Re: Maximum Record Size Error, -RMS-F-MRS, invalid maximum record sizeF Re: Maximum Record Size Error, -RMS-F-MRS, invalid maximum record sizeP MME users, Your Multi-volume Tape Backups may be bad on all	versions of VMS	versA Re: Moving from Multinet to TCP/IP Services (LAT/NTY/TNA devices) A Re: Moving from Multinet to TCP/IP Services (LAT/NTY/TNA devices)  Re: MSIE ftp hangs FTPD  Northern Light kaput.  Numeric usernames  Re: Numeric usernames 1 Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 1 Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 1 Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 1 Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 1 Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 1 Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 1 Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 1 Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 1 Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 1 Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 1 Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 1 Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 1 RE: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 1 Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 1 Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 1 Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 1 Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants . Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Stop the War Re: Recent posts I have made+ Re: restoring a file from a backup (newbie)  Re: RMS version number Re: RMS version number Re: RMS version number Re: RMS version number+ Re: Samba params.c missing question OpenVMS + Re: Samba params.c missing question OpenVMS + Re: Samba params.c missing question OpenVMS P Re: SIMH 2.10-4 released: major bug fixes to PDP-8, PDP-11, VAX, PDP-15, Interda Re: unix Re: unix Re: unix Re: unix RE: unix Re: unix RE: unix/ Re: Upgrade to OPEN VMS 7.3-1 - Patches needed? / Re: Upgrade to OPEN VMS 7.3-1 - Patches needed? / Re: Upgrade to OPEN VMS 7.3-1 - Patches needed?  Re: VAX again: unix 1 Re: VAXstation 4000 VLC VMS 5.5-2 Boot Parameters  Re: VMS Backup solutionsC [OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-1 BACKUP] Where does version number come from ?  Re: [OT}:to Sue   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 10:54:20 -0600 / From: Clay M. Denton <denton@orison.dsserv.com> C Subject: Advanced Server 7.3A vs 7.2 file name handing differences? 8 Message-ID: <1oue6v830vuhmpk1du6vkstchkg18lmd3q@4ax.com>  T I have a number of files that were created from a W2K PC and saved on a VMS AdvancedB Server 7.2 system.  All file operations were normal at that point.  U After upgrading the system to AS 7.3A. a number of the files cannot ba accessed (with - different useless errors on the Windows box).   T OS is VMS 7.2-2 , ECO 1 is loaded onto AS 7.3A.  The particular VMS volume is ODS-5.  G Here is what some look like from the VMS side (yes, they're MP3 files):       Directory MUSICDISK1:[Classical]  * BBC^_Symphony^_Orchestra^_^&^_Chorus.DIR;1J                                         3/3        13-AUG-2002 10:00:17.42 (RWED,RWED,RWED,RE) J Paul^_Lewis.DIR;1                       1/2         1-SEP-2002 14:31:01.30 (RWED,RWED,RWED,RE) 1 Schubert^_-^_Goodman^_-^_The^_Hanover^_Band.DIR;1 J                                         1/1        24-AUG-2002 14:46:43.45 (RWED,RWED,RWED,RE) K Sir^_Neville^_Marriner^_-^_Academy^_of^_St^.^_Martin^_in^_the^_Fields.DIR;1 J                                         1/1        25-AUG-2002 20:17:23.16 (RWED,RWED,RWED,RE) B Vivaldi^_-^_Huggett^_-^_Kraemer^_-^_Raglan^_Baroque^_Players.DIR;1J                                         1/1        24-AUG-2002 13:26:37.98 (RWED,RWED,RWED,RE) 6 Vivaldi^_-^_Turovsky^_-^_I^_Musici^_De^_Montreal.DIR;1J                                         1/2        27-AUG-2002 11:00:51.06 (RWED,RWED,RWED,RE)    Total of 6 files, 8/10 blocks.  E Directory MUSICDISK1:[Classical.BBC^_Symphony^_Orchestra^_^&^_Chorus]   Y Cantata^_for^_the^_20th^_Anniversary^_of^_the^_October^_Revolution-^_^_Interlude^_-.DIR;1 J                                         1/1        13-AUG-2002 10:03:20.67 (RWED,RWED,RWED,RE) \ Cantata^_for^_the^_20th^_Anniversary^_of^_the^_October^_Revolution-^_^_Introduction^_-.DIR;1J                                         1/1        13-AUG-2002 10:01:34.37 (RWED,RWED,RWED,RE) e Cantata^_for^_the^_20th^_Anniversary^_of^_the^_October^_Revolution-^_^_Marching^_in^_Close^_Ra-.DIR;1 J                                         1/1        13-AUG-2002 10:04:21.27 (RWED,RWED,RWED,RE) \ Cantata^_for^_the^_20th^_Anniversary^_of^_the^_October^_Revolution-^_^_Philosophers^_-.DIR;1J                                         1/1        13-AUG-2002 10:02:37.42 (RWED,RWED,RWED,RE) Z Cantata^_for^_the^_20th^_Anniversary^_of^_the^_October^_Revolution-^_^_Revolution^_-.DIR;1J                                         1/1        13-AUG-2002 10:09:08.92 (RWED,RWED,RWED,RE) X Cantata^_for^_the^_20th^_Anniversary^_of^_the^_October^_Revolution-^_^_Symphony^_-.DIR;1J                                         1/1        13-AUG-2002 10:17:00.81 (RWED,RWED,RWED,RE) a Cantata^_for^_the^_20th^_Anniversary^_of^_the^_October^_Revolution-^_^_The^_Constitution^_-.DIR;1 J                                         1/1        13-AUG-2002 10:19:17.14 (RWED,RWED,RWED,RE) [ Cantata^_for^_the^_20th^_Anniversary^_of^_the^_October^_Revolution-^_^_The^_Pledge^_-.DIR;1 J                                         1/1        13-AUG-2002 10:14:38.64 (RWED,RWED,RWED,RE) W Cantata^_for^_the^_20th^_Anniversary^_of^_the^_October^_Revolution-^_^_Victory^_-.DIR;1 J                                         1/1        13-AUG-2002 10:11:35.26 (RWED,RWED,RWED,RE)    Total of 9 files, 9/9 blocks.   	 Directory  MUSICDISK1:[Classical.BBC^_Symphony^_Orchestra^_^&^_Chorus.Cantata^_for^_the^_20th^_Anniversary^_of^_the^_October^_Revolution-^_^_Interlude^_-]   = BBC^_Music^_Vol^.^_V^,^_No^.^_2-^_^_October^_Revolution.DIR;1 J                                         1/1        13-AUG-2002 10:03:20.72 (RWED,RWED,RWED,RE)    Total of 1 file, 1/1 block.    Directory $1$DKA3:[5574,1,0]  m Cantata^_for^_the^_20th^_Anniversary^_of^_the^_October^_Revolution-^_^_Interlude^_-^_-^_04^_-^_Sergei^_.mp3;1 J                                      4740/4740     13-AUG-2002 10:02:49.09 (RWD,RWD,RWD,R) m Cantata^_for^_the^_20th^_Anniversary^_of^_the^_October^_Revolution-^_^_Interlude^_-^_-^_06^_-^_Sergei^_.mp3;1 J                                      4307/4307     13-AUG-2002 10:04:30.64 (RWD,RWD,RWD,R)   # Total of 2 files, 9047/9047 blocks.   	 Directory  MUSICDISK1:[Classical.BBC^_Symphony^_Orchestra^_^&^_Chorus.Cantata^_for^_the^_20th^_Anniversary^_of^_the^_October^_Revolution-^_^_Introduction^_-]  = BBC^_Music^_Vol^.^_V^,^_No^.^_2-^_^_October^_Revolution.DIR;1 J                                         1/1        13-AUG-2002 10:01:34.56 (RWED,RWED,RWED,RE)    Total of 1 file, 1/1 block.    Directory $1$DKA3:[5566,1,0]  i Cantata^_for^_the^_20th^_Anniversary^_of^_the^_October^_Revolution-^_^_Introduction^_-^_-^_02^_-^_S.mp3;1 J                                      8410/8410     13-AUG-2002 10:00:38.51 (RWD,RWD,RWD,R)   " Total of 1 file, 8410/8410 blocks.  	 Directory  MUSICDISK1:[Classical.BBC^_Symphony^_Orchestra^_^&^_Chorus.Cantata^_for^_the^_20th^_Anniversary^_of^_the^_October^_Revolution-^_^_Marching^_in^_Close^_Ra-]   = BBC^_Music^_Vol^.^_V^,^_No^.^_2-^_^_October^_Revolution.DIR;1 J                                         1/1        13-AUG-2002 10:04:21.31 (RWED,RWED,RWED,RE)    Total of 1 file, 1/1 block.    Directory $1$DKA3:[5578,1,0]  _ Cantata^_for^_the^_20th^_Anniversary^_of^_the^_October^_Revolution-^_^_Marching^_in^_Clos.mp3;1 J                                      6752/6752     13-AUG-2002 10:03:35.25 (RWD,RWD,RWD,R)   " Total of 1 file, 6752/6752 blocks.  	 Directory  MUSICDISK1:[Classical.BBC^_Symphony^_Orchestra^_^&^_Chorus.Cantata^_for^_the^_20th^_Anniversary^_of^_the^_October^_Revolution-^_^_Philosophers^_-]  = BBC^_Music^_Vol^.^_V^,^_No^.^_2-^_^_October^_Revolution.DIR;1 J                                         1/1        13-AUG-2002 10:02:37.59 (RWED,RWED,RWED,RE)    Total of 1 file, 1/1 block.    Directory $1$DKA3:[5570,1,0]  i Cantata^_for^_the^_20th^_Anniversary^_of^_the^_October^_Revolution-^_^_Philosophers^_-^_-^_03^_-^_S.mp3;1 J                                      6973/6973     13-AUG-2002 10:01:50.75 (RWD,RWD,RWD,R)   " Total of 1 file, 6973/6973 blocks.  	 Directory  MUSICDISK1:[Classical.BBC^_Symphony^_Orchestra^_^&^_Chorus.Cantata^_for^_the^_20th^_Anniversary^_of^_the^_October^_Revolution-^_^_Revolution^_-]  = BBC^_Music^_Vol^.^_V^,^_No^.^_2-^_^_October^_Revolution.DIR;1 J                                         1/1        13-AUG-2002 10:09:09.08 (RWED,RWED,RWED,RE)    Total of 1 file, 1/1 block.    Directory $1$DKA3:[5584,1,0]  k Cantata^_for^_the^_20th^_Anniversary^_of^_the^_October^_Revolution-^_^_Revolution^_-^_-^_07^_-^_Serge.mp3;1 J                                     28815/28815    13-AUG-2002 10:05:55.84 (RWD,RWD,RWD,R)   $ Total of 1 file, 28815/28815 blocks.  	 Directory  MUSICDISK1:[Classical.BBC^_Symphony^_Orchestra^_^&^_Chorus.Cantata^_for^_the^_20th^_Anniversary^_of^_the^_October^_Revolution-^_^_Symphony^_-]  = BBC^_Music^_Vol^.^_V^,^_No^.^_2-^_^_October^_Revolution.DIR;1 J                                         1/1        13-AUG-2002 10:17:00.84 (RWED,RWED,RWED,RE)    Total of 1 file, 1/1 block.    Directory $1$DKA3:[5596,1,0]  n Cantata^_for^_the^_20th^_Anniversary^_of^_the^_October^_Revolution-^_^_Symphony^_-^_-^_10^_-^_Sergei^_Pr.mp3;1J                                     16901/16901    13-AUG-2002 10:15:08.21 (RWD,RWD,RWD,R)   $ Total of 1 file, 16901/16901 blocks.  	 Directory  MUSICDISK1:[Classical.BBC^_Symphony^_Orchestra^_^&^_Chorus.Cantata^_for^_the^_20th^_Anniversary^_of^_the^_October^_Revolution-^_^_The^_Constitution^_-]   = BBC^_Music^_Vol^.^_V^,^_No^.^_2-^_^_October^_Revolution.DIR;1 J                                         1/1        13-AUG-2002 10:19:17.29 (RWED,RWED,RWED,RE)    Total of 1 file, 1/1 block.    Directory $1$DKA3:[5600,1,0]  c Cantata^_for^_the^_20th^_Anniversary^_of^_the^_October^_Revolution-^_^_The^_Constitution^_-^_.mp3;1 J                                     16089/16089    13-AUG-2002 10:17:28.93 (RWD,RWD,RWD,R)   $ Total of 1 file, 16089/16089 blocks.  	 Directory  MUSICDISK1:[Classical.BBC^_Symphony^_Orchestra^_^&^_Chorus.Cantata^_for^_the^_20th^_Anniversary^_of^_the^_October^_Revolution-^_^_The^_Pledge^_-]   = BBC^_Music^_Vol^.^_V^,^_No^.^_2-^_^_October^_Revolution.DIR;1 J                                         1/1        13-AUG-2002 10:14:38.68 (RWED,RWED,RWED,RE)    Total of 1 file, 1/1 block.    Directory $1$DKA3:[5592,1,0]  l Cantata^_for^_the^_20th^_Anniversary^_of^_the^_October^_Revolution-^_^_The^_Pledge^_-^_-^_09^_-^_Serge.mp3;1J                                     21218/21218    13-AUG-2002 10:12:13.44 (RWD,RWD,RWD,R)   $ Total of 1 file, 21218/21218 blocks.  	 Directory  MUSICDISK1:[Classical.BBC^_Symphony^_Orchestra^_^&^_Chorus.Cantata^_for^_the^_20th^_Anniversary^_of^_the^_October^_Revolution-^_^_Victory^_-]   = BBC^_Music^_Vol^.^_V^,^_No^.^_2-^_^_October^_Revolution.DIR;1 J                                         1/1        13-AUG-2002 10:11:35.41 (RWED,RWED,RWED,RE)    Total of 1 file, 1/1 block.    Directory $1$DKA3:[5588,1,0]  o Cantata^_for^_the^_20th^_Anniversary^_of^_the^_October^_Revolution-^_^_Victory^_-^_-^_08^_-^_Sergei^_Prok.mp3;1 J                                     16990/16990    13-AUG-2002 10:09:41.53 (RWD,RWD,RWD,R)   $ Total of 1 file, 16990/16990 blocks.  , Directory MUSICDISK1:[Classical.Paul^_Lewis]  c Beethoven^_Piano^_Sonata^_in^_E^_flat^,^_Op^_81a^_^(Les^_Adiuex^)^_-^_Das^_Lebewohl^_^(Adagio.DIR;1 J                                         1/1         1-SEP-2002 14:31:01.76 (RWED,RWED,RWED,RE)    Total of 1 file, 1/1 block.   	 Directory  MUSICDISK1:[Classical.Paul^_Lewis.Beethoven^_Piano^_Sonata^_in^_E^_flat^,^_Op^_81a^_^(Les^_Adiuex^)^_-^_Das^_Lebewohl^_^(Adagio]  c Beethoven^_Piano^_Sonata^_^'Les^_Adieux^'^_and^_music^_by^_Mendelssohn^,^_Liszt^_^&^_Schubert.DIR;1 J                                         1/1         1-SEP-2002 14:31:01.80 (RWED,RWED,RWED,RE)    Total of 1 file, 1/1 block.    Directory $1$DKA3:[7843,1,0]  ] Beethoven^_Piano^_Sonata^_in^_E^_flat^,^_Op^_81a^_^(Les^_Adiuex^)^_-^_Das^_Lebewohl^_^(.mp3;1 J                                     20767/20767     1-SEP-2002 14:28:19.28 (RWD,RWD,RWD,R)   $ Total of 1 file, 20767/20767 blocks.  L Directory MUSICDISK1:[Classical.Schubert^_-^_Goodman^_-^_The^_Hanover^_Band]  1 Schubert^_-^_Goodman^_-^_The^_Hanover^_Band.DIR;1 J                                         1/1        24-AUG-2002 14:46:43.57 (RWED,RWED,RWED,RE)    Total of 1 file, 1/1 block.   	 Directory n MUSICDISK1:[Classical.Schubert^_-^_Goodman^_-^_The^_Hanover^_Band.Schubert^_-^_Goodman^_-^_The^_Hanover^_Band]  + Schubert^_Symphonies^_4^,^_6^,^_^&^_9.DIR;1 J                                         1/3        24-AUG-2002 14:46:43.69 (RWED,RWED,RWED,RE)    Total of 1 file, 1/3 blocks.   Directory $1$DKA3:[7226,1,0]     Schubert^_-^_Goodman^_-^_The^_Hanover^_Band^_-^_01^_-^_Sym^.^_No^.^_9^_in^_C^_major^,^_D^.^_944^,^_-Great--^_Andante-Allegro^_ma^_no^_troppo-^_Piu^_moto.mp3;1J                                     46175/46175    24-AUG-2002 15:39:09.56 (RWD,RWD,RWD,R)   $ Total of 1 file, 46175/46175 blocks.  	 Directory \ MUSICDISK1:[Classical.Sir^_Neville^_Marriner^_-^_Academy^_of^_St^.^_Martin^_in^_the^_Fields]  K Sir^_Neville^_Marriner^_-^_Academy^_of^_St^.^_Martin^_in^_the^_Fields.DIR;1 J                                         1/1        25-AUG-2002 20:17:23.23 (RWED,RWED,RWED,RE)    Total of 1 file, 1/1 block.   	 Directory  MUSICDISK1:[Classical.Sir^_Neville^_Marriner^_-^_Academy^_of^_St^.^_Martin^_in^_the^_Fields.Sir^_Neville^_Marriner^_-^_Academy^_of^_St^.^_Martin^_in^_the^_Fields]  5 Mozart-^_Symphonies^_34-41^_^(Vol^_2^,Disc^_5^).DIR;1 J                                         2/2        25-AUG-2002 20:17:23.28 (RWED,RWED,RWED,RE)    Total of 1 file, 2/2 blocks.   Directory $1$DKA3:[7381,1,0]  g Sir^_Neville^_Marriner^_-^_Academy^_of^_St^.^_Martin^_in^_the^_Fields^_-^_01^_-^_Minuet^_for^_a^_.mp3;1 J                                     17955/17955    25-AUG-2002 20:15:12.65 (RWD,RWD,RWD,R) i Sir^_Neville^_Marriner^_-^_Academy^_of^_St^.^_Martin^_in^_the^_Fields^_-^_02^_-^_Sym^.^_No^.^_37^_i.mp3;1 J                                      5111/5111     25-AUG-2002 20:17:36.34 (RWD,RWD,RWD,R) i Sir^_Neville^_Marriner^_-^_Academy^_of^_St^.^_Martin^_in^_the^_Fields^_-^_03^_-^_Sym^.^_No^.^_38^_i.mp3;1 J                                     40034/40034    25-AUG-2002 20:19:40.19 (RWD,RWD,RWD,R) ^ Sir^_Neville^_Marriner^_-^_Academy^_of^_St^.^_Martin^_in^_the^_Fields^_-^_04^_-^_Andante.mp3;1J                                     25596/25596    25-AUG-2002 20:25:07.92 (RWD,RWD,RWD,R) f Sir^_Neville^_Marriner^_-^_Academy^_of^_St^.^_Martin^_in^_the^_Fields^_-^_05^_-^_Finale^_^(Prest.mp3;1J                                     17158/17158    25-AUG-2002 20:28:36.44 (RWD,RWD,RWD,R) i Sir^_Neville^_Marriner^_-^_Academy^_of^_St^.^_Martin^_in^_the^_Fields^_-^_06^_-^_Sym^.^_No^.^_39^_i.mp3;1 J                                     30846/30846    25-AUG-2002 20:31:31.03 (RWD,RWD,RWD,R) f Sir^_Neville^_Marriner^_-^_Academy^_of^_St^.^_Martin^_in^_the^_Fields^_-^_07^_-^_Andante^_con^_m.mp3;1J                                     23065/23065    25-AUG-2002 20:36:20.31 (RWD,RWD,RWD,R) f Sir^_Neville^_Marriner^_-^_Academy^_of^_St^.^_Martin^_in^_the^_Fields^_-^_08^_-^_Menuetto^_^(All.mp3;1J                                     11299/11299    25-AUG-2002 20:39:13.69 (RWD,RWD,RWD,R) f Sir^_Neville^_Marriner^_-^_Academy^_of^_St^.^_Martin^_in^_the^_Fields^_-^_09^_-^_Finale^_^(Alleg.mp3;1J                                     15746/15746    25-AUG-2002 20:41:04.80 (RWD,RWD,RWD,R)   ' Total of 9 files, 186810/186810 blocks.   	 Directory S MUSICDISK1:[Classical.Vivaldi^_-^_Huggett^_-^_Kraemer^_-^_Raglan^_Baroque^_Players]   B Vivaldi^_-^_Huggett^_-^_Kraemer^_-^_Raglan^_Baroque^_Players.DIR;1J                                         1/1        24-AUG-2002 13:26:38.03 (RWED,RWED,RWED,RE)    Total of 1 file, 1/1 block.   	 Directory  MUSICDISK1:[Classical.Vivaldi^_-^_Huggett^_-^_Kraemer^_-^_Raglan^_Baroque^_Players.Vivaldi^_-^_Huggett^_-^_Kraemer^_-^_Raglan^_Baroque^_Players]  A Vivaldi^_-^_Il^_Cimento^_dell^'armonia^_e^_dell^'inventione.DIR;1 J                                         5/6        24-AUG-2002 13:26:38.09 (RWED,RWED,RWED,RE) 0 Vivaldi^_12^_Concertos^,^_Op^.^_8^,^_V^_II.DIR;1J                                         2/6        24-AUG-2002 13:52:53.55 (RWED,RWED,RWED,RE)    Total of 2 files, 7/12 blocks.   Directory $1$DKA3:[7150,1,0]  c Vivaldi^_-^_Huggett^_-^_Kraemer^_-^_Raglan^_Baroque^_Players^_-^_01^_-^_Concerto^_1^_-Spring-.mp3;1 J                                     10181/10181    24-AUG-2002 13:25:29.94 (RWD,RWD,RWD,R) S Vivaldi^_-^_Huggett^_-^_Kraemer^_-^_Raglan^_Baroque^_Players^_-^_02^_-^_Largo.mp3;1 J                                      6489/6489     24-AUG-2002 13:26:54.89 (RWD,RWD,RWD,R) U Vivaldi^_-^_Huggett^_-^_Kraemer^_-^_Raglan^_Baroque^_Players^_-^_03^_-^_Allegro.mp3;1 J                                     10059/10059    24-AUG-2002 13:28:02.34 (RWD,RWD,RWD,R) e Vivaldi^_-^_Huggett^_-^_Kraemer^_-^_Raglan^_Baroque^_Players^_-^_04^_-^_No^.^_2^_-Summer-^_Alle.mp3;1 J                                     13537/13537    24-AUG-2002 13:29:38.50 (RWD,RWD,RWD,R) _ Vivaldi^_-^_Huggett^_-^_Kraemer^_-^_Raglan^_Baroque^_Players^_-^_05^_-^_Adagio^_-^_Presto.mp3;1 J                                      6485/6485     24-AUG-2002 13:31:22.81 (RWD,RWD,RWD,R) T Vivaldi^_-^_Huggett^_-^_Kraemer^_-^_Raglan^_Baroque^_Players^_-^_06^_-^_Presto.mp3;1J                                      7565/7565     24-AUG-2002 13:32:21.81 (RWD,RWD,RWD,R) d Vivaldi^_-^_Huggett^_-^_Kraemer^_-^_Raglan^_Baroque^_Players^_-^_07^_-^_No^.3^_-Fall-^_Allegro.mp3;1J                                     14946/14946    24-AUG-2002 13:33:41.94 (RWD,RWD,RWD,R) [ Vivaldi^_-^_Huggett^_-^_Kraemer^_-^_Raglan^_Baroque^_Players^_-^_08^_-^_Adagio^_molto.mp3;1 J                                      7527/7527     24-AUG-2002 13:35:36.47 (RWD,RWD,RWD,R) U Vivaldi^_-^_Huggett^_-^_Kraemer^_-^_Raglan^_Baroque^_Players^_-^_09^_-^_Allegro.mp3;1 J                                      9415/9415     24-AUG-2002 13:36:42.57 (RWD,RWD,RWD,R) e Vivaldi^_-^_Huggett^_-^_Kraemer^_-^_Raglan^_Baroque^_Players^_-^_10^_-^_No^.^_4^_-Winter-^_Alle.mp3;1 J                                      9060/9060     24-AUG-2002 13:38:02.00 (RWD,RWD,RWD,R) S Vivaldi^_-^_Huggett^_-^_Kraemer^_-^_Raglan^_Baroque^_Players^_-^_11^_-^_Largo.mp3;1 J                                      5087/5087     24-AUG-2002 13:39:14.78 (RWD,RWD,RWD,R) U Vivaldi^_-^_Huggett^_-^_Kraemer^_-^_Raglan^_Baroque^_Players^_-^_12^_-^_Allegro.mp3;1 J                                      8246/8246     24-AUG-2002 13:40:02.94 (RWD,RWD,RWD,R) f Vivaldi^_-^_Huggett^_-^_Kraemer^_-^_Raglan^_Baroque^_Players^_-^_13^_-^_No^.^_5^_La^_tempesta^_d.mp3;1J                                      7364/7364     24-AUG-2002 13:41:12.18 (RWD,RWD,RWD,R) S Vivaldi^_-^_Huggett^_-^_Kraemer^_-^_Raglan^_Baroque^_Players^_-^_14^_-^_Largo.mp3;1 J                                      6559/6559     24-AUG-2002 13:42:13.49 (RWD,RWD,RWD,R) T Vivaldi^_-^_Huggett^_-^_Kraemer^_-^_Raglan^_Baroque^_Players^_-^_15^_-^_Presto.mp3;1J                                     10200/10200    24-AUG-2002 13:43:15.97 (RWD,RWD,RWD,R) f Vivaldi^_-^_Huggett^_-^_Kraemer^_-^_Raglan^_Baroque^_Players^_-^_16^_-^_No^.^_6^_Il^_piacere^_in.mp3;1J                                      8387/8387     24-AUG-2002 13:44:40.56 (RWD,RWD,RWD,R) S Vivaldi^_-^_Huggett^_-^_Kraemer^_-^_Raglan^_Baroque^_Players^_-^_17^_-^_Largo.mp3;1 J                                      6337/6337     24-AUG-2002 13:45:49.65 (RWD,RWD,RWD,R) U Vivaldi^_-^_Huggett^_-^_Kraemer^_-^_Raglan^_Baroque^_Players^_-^_18^_-^_Allegro.mp3;1 J                                      8100/8100     24-AUG-2002 13:46:47.88 (RWD,RWD,RWD,R) i Vivaldi^_-^_Huggett^_-^_Kraemer^_-^_Raglan^_Baroque^_Players^_-^_19^_-^_No^.^_7^,^_RV^_242^_in^_d^_.mp3;1 J                                      8000/8000     24-AUG-2002 13:47:59.13 (RWD,RWD,RWD,R) S Vivaldi^_-^_Huggett^_-^_Kraemer^_-^_Raglan^_Baroque^_Players^_-^_20^_-^_Largo.mp3;1 J                                      4874/4874     24-AUG-2002 13:49:05.69 (RWD,RWD,RWD,R) U Vivaldi^_-^_Huggett^_-^_Kraemer^_-^_Raglan^_Baroque^_Players^_-^_21^_-^_Allegro.mp3;1 J                                      8726/8726     24-AUG-2002 13:49:56.51 (RWD,RWD,RWD,R)   ( Total of 21 files, 177144/177144 blocks.   Directory $1$DKA3:[7186,1,0]  z Vivaldi^_-^_Huggett^_-^_Kraemer^_-^_Raglan^_Baroque^_Players^_-^_16^_-^_Concerto^_for^_vilin^,^_cello^,^_and^_string.mp3;1J                                      9761/9761     24-AUG-2002 14:09:54.53 (RWD,RWD,RWD,R) U Vivaldi^_-^_Huggett^_-^_Kraemer^_-^_Raglan^_Baroque^_Players^_-^_17^_-^_Andante.mp3;1 J                                      6530/6530     24-AUG-2002 14:11:09.91 (RWD,RWD,RWD,R) U Vivaldi^_-^_Huggett^_-^_Kraemer^_-^_Raglan^_Baroque^_Players^_-^_18^_-^_Allegro.mp3;1 J                                      8535/8535     24-AUG-2002 14:12:10.40 (RWD,RWD,RWD,R) x Vivaldi^_-^_Huggett^_-^_Kraemer^_-^_Raglan^_Baroque^_Players^_-^_19^_-^_concerto^_for^_two^_viloins-^_Allegro^_Mol.mp3;1J                                     10848/10848    24-AUG-2002 14:13:25.47 (RWD,RWD,RWD,R) ` Vivaldi^_-^_Huggett^_-^_Kraemer^_-^_Raglan^_Baroque^_Players^_-^_20^_-^_Andante^_^(molto^).mp3;1J                                      4847/4847     24-AUG-2002 14:14:47.14 (RWD,RWD,RWD,R) U Vivaldi^_-^_Huggett^_-^_Kraemer^_-^_Raglan^_Baroque^_Players^_-^_21^_-^_Allegro.mp3;1 J                                      8834/8834     24-AUG-2002 14:15:37.80 (RWD,RWD,RWD,R)   % Total of 6 files, 49355/49355 blocks.   Q Directory MUSICDISK1:[Classical.Vivaldi^_-^_Turovsky^_-^_I^_Musici^_De^_Montreal]   ] Concerto^_for^_2^_Violins^_and^_Cello^_in^_d^,^_RV565-^_Allegro^_-^_Adagio^_e^_spiccato.DIR;1 J                                         1/1        27-AUG-2002 11:24:19.19 (RWED,RWED,RWED,RE)    Total of 1 file, 1/1 block.   	 Directory  MUSICDISK1:[Classical.Vivaldi^_-^_Turovsky^_-^_I^_Musici^_De^_Montreal.Concerto^_for^_2^_Violins^_and^_Cello^_in^_d^,^_RV565-^_Allegro^_-^_Adagio^_e^_spiccato]   J Vivaldi^_-^_Six^_Concerti.DIR;1         1/1        27-AUG-2002 11:24:19.26 (RWED,RWED,RWED,RE)    Total of 1 file, 1/1 block.    Directory $1$DKA3:[7560,1,0]  p Concerto^_for^_2^_Violins^_and^_Cello^_in^_d^,^_RV565-^_Allegro^_-^_Adagio^_e^_spiccato^_-^_16^_-^_Allegro.mp3;1J                                     12526/12526    27-AUG-2002 11:22:54.47 (RWD,RWD,RWD,R)   $ Total of 1 file, 12526/12526 blocks.  > Grand total of 36 directories, 84 files, 624015/624024 blocks.   And from the PC side:      Volume in drive F is MusicDisk1"  Volume Serial Number is 0000-000D    Directory of F:\   1 08/02/2002  10:26p                   0 BACKUP.SYS 1 08/02/2002  10:26p                   0 BADBLK.SYS 1 08/02/2002  10:26p                   0 BADLOG.SYS 1 02/24/2003  09:50a          11,103,744 BITMAP.SYS 0 08/12/2002  11:36a      <DIR>          Classical1 08/02/2002  10:26p                   0 CONTIN.SYS 1 08/02/2002  10:26p                   0 CORIMG.SYS 1 03/06/2003  07:19a           6,704,128 INDEXF.SYS 3 08/02/2002  10:26p                 512 SECURITY.SYS 1 08/02/2002  10:26p                   0 VOLSET.SYS -                9 File(s)     17,810,432 bytes     Directory of F:\Classical  ( 08/12/2002  11:36a      <DIR>          .) 03/05/2003  06:15p      <DIR>          .. F 08/13/2002  10:00a      <DIR>          BBC Symphony Orchestra & Chorus1 09/01/2002  02:31p      <DIR>          Paul Lewis L 08/24/2002  02:46p      <DIR>          Schubert - Goodman - The Hanover BandZ 08/25/2002  08:17p      <DIR>          Sir Neville Marriner - Academy of St. Martin in the FieldsS 08/24/2002  01:26p      <DIR>          Vivaldi - Huggett - Kraemer - Raglan Baroque  Players P 08/27/2002  11:00a      <DIR>          Vivaldi - Turovsky - I Musici De Montreal-                0 File(s)          7,680 bytes   :  Directory of F:\Classical\BBC Symphony Orchestra & Chorus  ( 08/13/2002  10:00a      <DIR>          .) 08/12/2002  11:36a      <DIR>          .. V 08/13/2002  10:03a      <DIR>          Cantata for the 20th Anniversary of the October Revolution-  Interlude -V 08/13/2002  10:01a      <DIR>          Cantata for the 20th Anniversary of the October Revolution-  Introduction - V 08/13/2002  10:04a      <DIR>          Cantata for the 20th Anniversary of the October" Revolution-  Marching in Close Ra-V 08/13/2002  10:02a      <DIR>          Cantata for the 20th Anniversary of the October Revolution-  Philosophers - V 08/13/2002  10:09a      <DIR>          Cantata for the 20th Anniversary of the October Revolution-  Revolution - V 08/13/2002  10:17a      <DIR>          Cantata for the 20th Anniversary of the October Revolution-  Symphony - V 08/13/2002  10:19a      <DIR>          Cantata for the 20th Anniversary of the October Revolution-  The Constitution - V 08/13/2002  10:14a      <DIR>          Cantata for the 20th Anniversary of the October Revolution-  The Pledge - V 08/13/2002  10:11a      <DIR>          Cantata for the 20th Anniversary of the October Revolution-  Victory --                0 File(s)          8,192 bytes   O  Directory of F:\Classical\BBC Symphony Orchestra & Chorus\Cantata for the 20th 3 Anniversary of the October Revolution-  Interlude -   ( 08/13/2002  10:03a      <DIR>          .) 08/13/2002  10:00a      <DIR>          .. S 08/13/2002  10:03a      <DIR>          BBC Music Vol. V, No. 2-  October Revolution -                0 File(s)          2,560 bytes   O  Directory of F:\Classical\BBC Symphony Orchestra & Chorus\Cantata for the 20th U Anniversary of the October Revolution-  Interlude -\BBC Music Vol. V, No. 2-  October 
 Revolution  ( 08/13/2002  10:03a      <DIR>          .) 08/13/2002  10:03a      <DIR>          .. V 08/13/2002  10:03a           2,426,797 Cantata for the 20th Anniversary of the October+ Revolution-  Interlude - - 04 - Sergei .mp3 V 08/13/2002  10:05a           2,204,860 Cantata for the 20th Anniversary of the October+ Revolution-  Interlude - - 06 - Sergei .mp3 -                2 File(s)      4,632,681 bytes   O  Directory of F:\Classical\BBC Symphony Orchestra & Chorus\Cantata for the 20th 6 Anniversary of the October Revolution-  Introduction -  ( 08/13/2002  10:01a      <DIR>          .) 08/13/2002  10:00a      <DIR>          .. S 08/13/2002  10:01a      <DIR>          BBC Music Vol. V, No. 2-  October Revolution -                0 File(s)          2,560 bytes   O  Directory of F:\Classical\BBC Symphony Orchestra & Chorus\Cantata for the 20th X Anniversary of the October Revolution-  Introduction -\BBC Music Vol. V, No. 2-  October
 Revolution  ( 08/13/2002  10:01a      <DIR>          .) 08/13/2002  10:01a      <DIR>          .. V 08/13/2002  10:01a           4,305,735 Cantata for the 20th Anniversary of the October( Revolution-  Introduction - - 02 - S.mp3-                1 File(s)      4,306,759 bytes   O  Directory of F:\Classical\BBC Symphony Orchestra & Chorus\Cantata for the 20th = Anniversary of the October Revolution-  Marching in Close Ra-   ( 08/13/2002  10:04a      <DIR>          .) 08/13/2002  10:00a      <DIR>          .. S 08/13/2002  10:04a      <DIR>          BBC Music Vol. V, No. 2-  October Revolution -                0 File(s)          2,560 bytes   O  Directory of F:\Classical\BBC Symphony Orchestra & Chorus\Cantata for the 20th V Anniversary of the October Revolution-  Marching in Close Ra-\BBC Music Vol. V, No. 2- October Revolution  ( 08/13/2002  10:04a      <DIR>          .) 08/13/2002  10:04a      <DIR>          .. V 08/13/2002  10:04a           3,456,866 Cantata for the 20th Anniversary of the October! Revolution-  Marching in Clos.mp3 -                1 File(s)      3,457,890 bytes   O  Directory of F:\Classical\BBC Symphony Orchestra & Chorus\Cantata for the 20th 6 Anniversary of the October Revolution-  Philosophers -  ( 08/13/2002  10:02a      <DIR>          .) 08/13/2002  10:00a      <DIR>          .. S 08/13/2002  10:02a      <DIR>          BBC Music Vol. V, No. 2-  October Revolution -                0 File(s)          2,560 bytes   O  Directory of F:\Classical\BBC Symphony Orchestra & Chorus\Cantata for the 20th X Anniversary of the October Revolution-  Philosophers -\BBC Music Vol. V, No. 2-  October
 Revolution  ( 08/13/2002  10:02a      <DIR>          .) 08/13/2002  10:02a      <DIR>          .. V 08/13/2002  10:02a           3,569,709 Cantata for the 20th Anniversary of the October( Revolution-  Philosophers - - 03 - S.mp3-                1 File(s)      3,570,733 bytes   O  Directory of F:\Classical\BBC Symphony Orchestra & Chorus\Cantata for the 20th 4 Anniversary of the October Revolution-  Revolution -  ( 08/13/2002  10:09a      <DIR>          .) 08/13/2002  10:00a      <DIR>          .. S 08/13/2002  10:09a      <DIR>          BBC Music Vol. V, No. 2-  October Revolution -                0 File(s)          2,560 bytes   O  Directory of F:\Classical\BBC Symphony Orchestra & Chorus\Cantata for the 20th V Anniversary of the October Revolution-  Revolution -\BBC Music Vol. V, No. 2-  October
 Revolution  ( 08/13/2002  10:09a      <DIR>          .) 08/13/2002  10:09a      <DIR>          .. V 08/13/2002  10:09a          14,753,041 Cantata for the 20th Anniversary of the October* Revolution-  Revolution - - 07 - Serge.mp3-                1 File(s)     14,754,065 bytes   O  Directory of F:\Classical\BBC Symphony Orchestra & Chorus\Cantata for the 20th 2 Anniversary of the October Revolution-  Symphony -  ( 08/13/2002  10:17a      <DIR>          .) 08/13/2002  10:00a      <DIR>          .. S 08/13/2002  10:17a      <DIR>          BBC Music Vol. V, No. 2-  October Revolution -                0 File(s)          2,560 bytes   O  Directory of F:\Classical\BBC Symphony Orchestra & Chorus\Cantata for the 20th T Anniversary of the October Revolution-  Symphony -\BBC Music Vol. V, No. 2-  October
 Revolution  ( 08/13/2002  10:17a      <DIR>          .) 08/13/2002  10:17a      <DIR>          .. V 08/13/2002  10:17a           8,652,925 Cantata for the 20th Anniversary of the October, Revolution-  Symphony - - 10 - Sergei Pr.mp3-                1 File(s)      8,653,949 bytes   O  Directory of F:\Classical\BBC Symphony Orchestra & Chorus\Cantata for the 20th : Anniversary of the October Revolution-  The Constitution -  ( 08/13/2002  10:19a      <DIR>          .) 08/13/2002  10:00a      <DIR>          .. S 08/13/2002  10:19a      <DIR>          BBC Music Vol. V, No. 2-  October Revolution -                0 File(s)          2,560 bytes   O  Directory of F:\Classical\BBC Symphony Orchestra & Chorus\Cantata for the 20th S Anniversary of the October Revolution-  The Constitution -\BBC Music Vol. V, No. 2-  October Revolution  ( 08/13/2002  10:19a      <DIR>          .) 08/13/2002  10:19a      <DIR>          .. V 08/13/2002  10:19a           8,237,273 Cantata for the 20th Anniversary of the October$ Revolution-  The Constitution - .mp3-                1 File(s)      8,238,297 bytes   O  Directory of F:\Classical\BBC Symphony Orchestra & Chorus\Cantata for the 20th 4 Anniversary of the October Revolution-  The Pledge -  ( 08/13/2002  10:14a      <DIR>          .) 08/13/2002  10:00a      <DIR>          .. S 08/13/2002  10:14a      <DIR>          BBC Music Vol. V, No. 2-  October Revolution -                0 File(s)          2,560 bytese  O  Directory of F:\Classical\BBC Symphony Orchestra & Chorus\Cantata for the 20th V Anniversary of the October Revolution-  The Pledge -\BBC Music Vol. V, No. 2-  October
 Revolution  ( 08/13/2002  10:14a      <DIR>          .) 08/13/2002  10:14a      <DIR>          ..'V 08/13/2002  10:14a          10,863,513 Cantata for the 20th Anniversary of the October* Revolution-  The Pledge - - 09 - Serge.mp3-                1 File(s)     10,864,537 bytesn  O  Directory of F:\Classical\BBC Symphony Orchestra & Chorus\Cantata for the 20thi1 Anniversary of the October Revolution-  Victory -   ( 08/13/2002  10:11a      <DIR>          .) 08/13/2002  10:00a      <DIR>          ..iS 08/13/2002  10:11a      <DIR>          BBC Music Vol. V, No. 2-  October Revolutiono-                0 File(s)          2,560 bytesS  O  Directory of F:\Classical\BBC Symphony Orchestra & Chorus\Cantata for the 20thSS Anniversary of the October Revolution-  Victory -\BBC Music Vol. V, No. 2-  Octoberr
 Revolution  ( 08/13/2002  10:11a      <DIR>          .) 08/13/2002  10:11a      <DIR>          ..tV 08/13/2002  10:11a           8,698,690 Cantata for the 20th Anniversary of the October- Revolution-  Victory - - 08 - Sergei Prok.mp3o-                1 File(s)      8,699,714 bytesT  %  Directory of F:\Classical\Paul Lewiso  ( 09/01/2002  02:31p      <DIR>          .) 08/12/2002  11:36a      <DIR>          ..oT 09/01/2002  02:31p      <DIR>          Beethoven Piano Sonata in E flat, Op 81a (Les Adiuex) - Das Lebewohl (Adagio-                0 File(s)          3,072 bytest  S  Directory of F:\Classical\Paul Lewis\Beethoven Piano Sonata in E flat, Op 81a (Leso Adiuex) - Das Lebewohl (Adagio  ( 09/01/2002  02:31p      <DIR>          .) 09/01/2002  02:31p      <DIR>          ..tW 09/01/2002  02:31p      <DIR>          Beethoven Piano Sonata 'Les Adieux' and music bya Mendelssohn, Liszt & Schubert -                0 File(s)          1,536 bytesa  S  Directory of F:\Classical\Paul Lewis\Beethoven Piano Sonata in E flat, Op 81a (LesmO Adiuex) - Das Lebewohl (Adagio\Beethoven Piano Sonata 'Les Adieux' and music byR Mendelssohn, Liszt & Schuberts  ( 09/01/2002  02:31p      <DIR>          .) 09/01/2002  02:31p      <DIR>          ..aT 09/01/2002  03:31p          10,632,201 Beethoven Piano Sonata in E flat, Op 81a (Les Adiuex) - Das Lebewohl (.mp3-                1 File(s)     10,633,225 bytess  @  Directory of F:\Classical\Schubert - Goodman - The Hanover Band  ( 08/24/2002  02:46p      <DIR>          .) 08/12/2002  11:36a      <DIR>          ..gL 08/24/2002  02:46p      <DIR>          Schubert - Goodman - The Hanover Band-                0 File(s)          3,072 bytes   Y  Directory of F:\Classical\Schubert - Goodman - The Hanover Band\Schubert - Goodman - Thee Hanover Band  ( 08/24/2002  02:46p      <DIR>          .) 08/24/2002  02:46p      <DIR>          .. D 08/24/2002  02:46p      <DIR>          Schubert Symphonies 4, 6, & 9-                0 File(s)          1,536 bytes   Y  Directory of F:\Classical\Schubert - Goodman - The Hanover Band\Schubert - Goodman - The * Hanover Band\Schubert Symphonies 4, 6, & 9  ( 08/24/2002  02:46p      <DIR>          .) 08/24/2002  02:46p      <DIR>          ..0X 08/24/2002  04:44p          23,641,162 Schubert - Goodman - The Hanover Band - 01 - Sym.M No. 9 in C major, D. 944, -Great-- Andante-Allegro ma no troppo- Piu moto.mp3m-                1 File(s)     23,642,186 bytese  U  Directory of F:\Classical\Sir Neville Marriner - Academy of St. Martin in the Fieldsi  ( 08/25/2002  08:17p      <DIR>          .) 08/12/2002  11:36a      <DIR>          ..eZ 08/25/2002  08:17p      <DIR>          Sir Neville Marriner - Academy of St. Martin in the Fields-                0 File(s)          3,072 bytes   Y  Directory of F:\Classical\Sir Neville Marriner - Academy of St. Martin in the Fields\Sir)6 Neville Marriner - Academy of St. Martin in the Fields  ( 08/25/2002  08:17p      <DIR>          .) 08/25/2002  08:17p      <DIR>          ..UN 08/25/2002  08:17p      <DIR>          Mozart- Symphonies 34-41 (Vol 2,Disc 5)-                0 File(s)          2,048 bytesD  Y  Directory of F:\Classical\Sir Neville Marriner - Academy of St. Martin in the Fields\Sir T Neville Marriner - Academy of St. Martin in the Fields\Mozart- Symphonies 34-41 (Vol	 2,Disc 5)a  ( 08/25/2002  08:17p      <DIR>          .) 08/25/2002  08:17p      <DIR>          .. Z 08/25/2002  09:17p           9,192,719 Sir Neville Marriner - Academy of St. Martin in the Fields - 01 - Minuet for a .mp3 Z 08/25/2002  09:18p           2,616,785 Sir Neville Marriner - Academy of St. Martin in the Fields - 02 - Sym. No. 37 i.mp3_Z 08/25/2002  09:24p          20,497,058 Sir Neville Marriner - Academy of St. Martin in the Fields - 03 - Sym. No. 38 i.mp3 Z 08/25/2002  09:28p          13,104,789 Sir Neville Marriner - Academy of St. Martin in the Fields - 04 - Andante.mp3fZ 08/25/2002  09:30p           8,784,562 Sir Neville Marriner - Academy of St. Martin in the Fields - 05 - Finale (Prest.mp3 Z 08/25/2002  09:35p          15,793,140 Sir Neville Marriner - Academy of St. Martin in the Fields - 06 - Sym. No. 39 i.mp3IZ 08/25/2002  09:38p          11,808,915 Sir Neville Marriner - Academy of St. Martin in the Fields - 07 - Andante con m.mp3tZ 08/25/2002  09:40p           5,784,666 Sir Neville Marriner - Academy of St. Martin in the Fields - 08 - Menuetto (All.mp3 Z 08/25/2002  09:42p           8,061,702 Sir Neville Marriner - Academy of St. Martin in the Fields - 09 - Finale (Alleg.mp3_-                9 File(s)     95,645,872 bytes   O  Directory of F:\Classical\Vivaldi - Huggett - Kraemer - Raglan Baroque PlayersE  ( 08/24/2002  01:26p      <DIR>          .) 08/12/2002  11:36a      <DIR>          ..-S 08/24/2002  01:26p      <DIR>          Vivaldi - Huggett - Kraemer - Raglan BaroqueR PlayersR-                0 File(s)          3,072 bytes_  Y  Directory of F:\Classical\Vivaldi - Huggett - Kraemer - Raglan Baroque Players\Vivaldi -/* Huggett - Kraemer - Raglan Baroque Players  ( 08/24/2002  01:26p      <DIR>          .) 08/24/2002  01:26p      <DIR>          .._Z 08/24/2002  01:26p      <DIR>          Vivaldi - Il Cimento dell'armonia e dell'inventioneH 08/24/2002  01:52p      <DIR>          Vivaldi 12 Concertos, Op. 8, V II-                0 File(s)          4,608 bytes   Y  Directory of F:\Classical\Vivaldi - Huggett - Kraemer - Raglan Baroque Players\Vivaldi -,N Huggett - Kraemer - Raglan Baroque Players\Vivaldi - Il Cimento dell'armonia e dell'inventione   ( 08/24/2002  01:26p      <DIR>          .) 08/24/2002  01:26p      <DIR>          ..ES 08/24/2002  02:26p           5,212,283 Vivaldi - Huggett - Kraemer - Raglan Baroquem& Players - 01 - Concerto 1 -Spring-.mp3S 08/24/2002  02:27p           3,322,041 Vivaldi - Huggett - Kraemer - Raglan Baroques Players - 02 - Largo.mp3S 08/24/2002  02:29p           5,150,197 Vivaldi - Huggett - Kraemer - Raglan BaroqueU Players - 03 - Allegro.mp3S 08/24/2002  02:31p           6,930,728 Vivaldi - Huggett - Kraemer - Raglan Baroquet& Players - 04 - No. 2 -Summer- Alle.mp3S 08/24/2002  02:32p           3,320,170 Vivaldi - Huggett - Kraemer - Raglan Baroque " Players - 05 - Adagio - Presto.mp3S 08/24/2002  02:33p           3,873,121 Vivaldi - Huggett - Kraemer - Raglan BaroqueO Players - 06 - Presto.mp3rS 08/24/2002  02:35p           7,652,321 Vivaldi - Huggett - Kraemer - Raglan Baroque & Players - 07 - No.3 -Fall- Allegro.mp3S 08/24/2002  02:36p           3,853,692 Vivaldi - Huggett - Kraemer - Raglan BaroqueS Players - 08 - Adagio molto.mp3nS 08/24/2002  02:37p           4,820,427 Vivaldi - Huggett - Kraemer - Raglan Baroque  Players - 09 - Allegro.mp3S 08/24/2002  02:39p           4,638,641 Vivaldi - Huggett - Kraemer - Raglan Baroque & Players - 10 - No. 4 -Winter- Alle.mp3S 08/24/2002  02:39p           2,604,197 Vivaldi - Huggett - Kraemer - Raglan Baroquef Players - 11 - Largo.mp3S 08/24/2002  02:40p           4,221,701 Vivaldi - Huggett - Kraemer - Raglan Baroque  Players - 12 - Allegro.mp3S 08/24/2002  02:42p           3,770,331 Vivaldi - Huggett - Kraemer - Raglan Baroquek& Players - 13 - No. 5 La tempesta d.mp3S 08/24/2002  02:42p           3,357,778 Vivaldi - Huggett - Kraemer - Raglan Baroquec Players - 14 - Largo.mp3S 08/24/2002  02:44p           5,222,295 Vivaldi - Huggett - Kraemer - Raglan Baroque; Players - 15 - Presto.mp3 S 08/24/2002  02:45p           4,293,828 Vivaldi - Huggett - Kraemer - Raglan Baroque1& Players - 16 - No. 6 Il piacere in.mp3S 08/24/2002  02:46p           3,244,302 Vivaldi - Huggett - Kraemer - Raglan BaroqueM Players - 17 - Largo.mp3S 08/24/2002  02:47p           4,147,096 Vivaldi - Huggett - Kraemer - Raglan BaroqueR Players - 18 - Allegro.mp3S 08/24/2002  02:48p           4,095,713 Vivaldi - Huggett - Kraemer - Raglan Baroqueh& Players - 19 - No. 7, RV 242 in d .mp3S 08/24/2002  02:49p           2,495,110 Vivaldi - Huggett - Kraemer - Raglan Baroque_ Players - 20 - Largo.mp3S 08/24/2002  02:50p           4,467,461 Vivaldi - Huggett - Kraemer - Raglan BaroqueR Players - 21 - Allegro.mp3-               21 File(s)     90,696,505 bytes7  Y  Directory of F:\Classical\Vivaldi - Huggett - Kraemer - Raglan Baroque Players\Vivaldi -^L Huggett - Kraemer - Raglan Baroque Players\Vivaldi 12 Concertos, Op. 8, V II  ( 08/24/2002  01:52p      <DIR>          .) 08/24/2002  01:26p      <DIR>          ..rS 08/24/2002  03:10p           4,997,246 Vivaldi - Huggett - Kraemer - Raglan Baroqueh8 Players - 16 - Concerto for vilin, cello, and string.mp3S 08/24/2002  03:11p           3,343,342 Vivaldi - Huggett - Kraemer - Raglan Baroque  Players - 17 - Andante.mp3S 08/24/2002  03:13p           4,369,641 Vivaldi - Huggett - Kraemer - Raglan Baroque  Players - 18 - Allegro.mp3S 08/24/2002  03:14p           5,553,960 Vivaldi - Huggett - Kraemer - Raglan Baroquet8 Players - 19 - concerto for two viloins- Allegro Mol.mp3S 08/24/2002  03:15p           2,481,309 Vivaldi - Huggett - Kraemer - Raglan Baroque," Players - 20 - Andante (molto).mp3S 08/24/2002  03:16p           4,522,614 Vivaldi - Huggett - Kraemer - Raglan Baroquen Players - 21 - Allegro.mp3-                6 File(s)     25,269,648 bytes^  D  Directory of F:\Classical\Vivaldi - Turovsky - I Musici De Montreal  ( 08/27/2002  11:00a      <DIR>          .) 08/12/2002  11:36a      <DIR>          ..fT 08/27/2002  11:24a      <DIR>          Concerto for 2 Violins and Cello in d, RV565- Allegro - Adagio e spiccatoi-                0 File(s)          3,072 bytes   S  Directory of F:\Classical\Vivaldi - Turovsky - I Musici De Montreal\Concerto for 2D: Violins and Cello in d, RV565- Allegro - Adagio e spiccato  ( 08/27/2002  11:24a      <DIR>          .) 08/27/2002  11:00a      <DIR>          ..i= 08/27/2002  11:24a      <DIR>          Vivaldi - Six Concerti -                0 File(s)          1,536 bytes^  S  Directory of F:\Classical\Vivaldi - Turovsky - I Musici De Montreal\Concerto for 29Q Violins and Cello in d, RV565- Allegro - Adagio e spiccato\Vivaldi - Six Concerti5  ( 08/27/2002  11:24a      <DIR>          .) 08/27/2002  11:24a      <DIR>          .._T 08/27/2002  12:24p           6,412,844 Concerto for 2 Violins and Cello in d, RV565-. Allegro - Adagio e spiccato - 16 - Allegro.mp3-                1 File(s)      6,413,868 bytesS        Total Files Listed:-               58 File(s)    337,355,897 bytes_2              108 Dir(s)  45,094,045,184 bytes free  
 Any ideas?   Clay   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 20:35:31 +0100( From: "Piotr Glowacz" <pglowacz@used.pl> Subject: Alpha 2100a/ Message-ID: <b487un$sq2$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>    Dear AllJ Recently I've aquired an AlphaServer 2100A system. I hoped to install OVMSK on it, for testing and some development purposes. Unfortunately, I've tried I to bring it up too fast, and I upgraded firmware from EV4 to EV5 version,a! with EV4 CPU modules installed... G My question is - is there a chance to get EV5 modules for 2100A for anynJ reasonable price? This machine was donated, so $500 for CPU module isn't a	 choice...^J If you know any better place I can ask, please let me know. Maybe there is also any 4100 system to take...    TIA, Piotr:   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 23:51:35 GMTr6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) Subject: Re: Alpha 2100a3 Message-ID: <baR9a.65097$AV5.830895@news.chello.at>   Z In article <b487un$sq2$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>, "Piotr Glowacz" <pglowacz@used.pl> writes:K >Recently I've aquired an AlphaServer 2100A system. I hoped to install OVMSaL >on it, for testing and some development purposes. Unfortunately, I've triedJ >to bring it up too fast, and I upgraded firmware from EV4 to EV5 version," >with EV4 CPU modules installed...  A Maybe you can find a way to get an EV4 firmware version again in. " Look for keyword "failsafe loader"  H >My question is - is there a chance to get EV5 modules for 2100A for anyK >reasonable price? This machine was donated, so $500 for CPU module isn't a^
 >choice...  F I've seen CPU modules (5/250) on EBAY for a couple of bucks (6 to 36).  K >If you know any better place I can ask, please let me know. Maybe there isb  >also any 4100 system to take...  G COMP.SYS.DEC would be a better place, but the level of noise is extreme-L here in COV so one more technical not so on Topic Posting is very ok for me.   -- - Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERR% Network and OpenVMS system specialistb E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 16:26:25 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>Y Subject: Re: Arguing about editors (was Re: EDT and command tables have invalid format (w^/ Message-ID: <3E67AEE7.B0EAC458@vl.videotron.ca>m   "Alan E. Feldman" wrote:F > I get especially "annoyed" when I make it clear FROM THE OUTSET thatG > SHIFT LEFT and SHIFT RIGHT are not the same as having SET NOTRUNCATE.    <editor-jihad-mode>b  H When I am interested in a long record, I manually break up that one longN record into different lines (press return), and then when editing is all done,# I re-join the lines of that record.o   </editor-jihad-mode>   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 15:57:35 -0500; From: "Brian Tillman" <Brian.Tillman@notnoone.notnohow.com>U1 Subject: Re: Can't browse Samba shares on OpenVMSe$ Message-ID: <3e67b62a$1@news.si.com>  7 Ask in comp.protocol.smb or the Samba-VMS mailing list.n -- ^I Brian Tillman         Internet: Brian.Tillman at smiths-aerospace dot com05 Smiths Aerospace  Addresses modified to prevent SPAM.,@ 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS Replace "at" with "@", "dot" with "." Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991_8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Mar 2003 14:17:49 -0800($ From: john_20_28_2000@yahoo.com (jm)1 Subject: Re: Can't browse Samba shares on OpenVMS2= Message-ID: <c67e4bdd.0303061417.223bd5ee@posting.google.com>.  i john_20_28_2000@yahoo.com (jm) wrote in message news:<c67e4bdd.0303051123.6ef4c178@posting.google.com>..._% > OpenVMS 7.2-1 TCPIP 5.x Samba 2.2.7  > F > Finally joined the domain, but now I can't see any shares.  Smb.confH > looks fine and practically mirrors its Linux counterpart.  Security is
 > working. > H > The computer comes up in Network Neighborhood and via UNC (most of theF > time), but the shares aren't there.  I have researched to no avail.  > Thanks for any help. > A > Turning up the debug options to -d8 caused the alpha machine to 	 > reboot.  >  > [2003/03/05 14:19:31, 0]9 > DISK$SWAP:[JYC.SAMBA.SAMBA-2_2_7A.SOURCE.PARAM]PARAMS.Cr
 > ;2:(544)C >   params.c:OpenConfFile() - Unable to open configuration file "":  >         error 0  > [2003/03/05 14:19:40, 0]9 > DISK$SWAP:[JYC.SAMBA.SAMBA-2_2_7A.SOURCE.LIB]UTIL_SOCK.r > C;2:(1020)9 >   getpeername failed. Error was socket is not connectedt > [2003/03/05 14:19:40, 0]9 > DISK$SWAP:[JYC.SAMBA.SAMBA-2_2_7A.SOURCE.LIB]ACCESS.C;1D > :(331) > [2003/03/05 14:19:40, 0]9 > DISK$SWAP:[JYC.SAMBA.SAMBA-2_2_7A.SOURCE.LIB]UTIL_SOCK.m > C;2:(1020)9 >   getpeername failed. Error was socket is not connected % >   Denied connection from  (0.0.0.0)R > [2003/03/05 14:19:40, 0]9 > DISK$SWAP:[JYC.SAMBA.SAMBA-2_2_7A.SOURCE.LIB]UTIL_SOCK.d > C;2:(507)m9 >   write_socket_data: write failure. Error = broken pipe- > [2003/03/05 14:19:40, 0]9 > DISK$SWAP:[JYC.SAMBA.SAMBA-2_2_7A.SOURCE.LIB]UTIL_SOCK.a > C;2:(531)^H >   write_socket: Error writing 5 bytes to socket 3: ERRNO = broken pipe > [2003/03/05 14:19:40, 0]9 > DISK$SWAP:[JYC.SAMBA.SAMBA-2_2_7A.SOURCE.LIB]UTIL_SOCK.^ > C;2:(711)_6 >   Error writing 5 bytes to client. -1. (broken pipe)   No hope?   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 03:21:17 GMTR- From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>11 Subject: Re: Can't browse Samba shares on OpenVMSa< Message-ID: <NeU9a.5203$J51.1085072@news1.news.adelphia.net>  ! Followups set to vmsnet.internalsa  	 jm wrote:^7 > john_20_28_2000@yahoo.com (jm) wrote in message news:/5 ><c67e4bdd.0303051123.6ef4c178@posting.google.com>...  > % >>OpenVMS 7.2-1 TCPIP 5.x Samba 2.2.7  >>F >>Finally joined the domain, but now I can't see any shares.  Smb.confH >>looks fine and practically mirrors its Linux counterpart.  Security is
 >>working. >>H >>The computer comes up in Network Neighborhood and via UNC (most of theF >>time), but the shares aren't there.  I have researched to no avail.  >>Thanks for any help. >>A >>Turning up the debug options to -d8 caused the alpha machine to/	 >>reboot.-  G That should not happen.  The only part of SAMBA that should be running .I in KERNEL mode is when it changes user id.  That is if it is still using l6 the old KERNEL mode hack and not the Persona Services.  B Please make sure that you are up to date on the ECO kits for your E system.  If you have a support contract, you should call to have the n crash dump analyzed.  G If this is a hobby system, then we would need to know some information -@ about the where the crash occured from the system dump analyzer.  " anal/system SYS$SYSTEM:SYSDUMP.DMP SDA> read/exec SDA> clue crash.  I Please do not post the whole thing, the PC where the crash occured would D do for a start though.   -Johne wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only_   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 16:32:32 -040030 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>" Subject: Re: Carly's feedback link/ Message-ID: <3E67B054.F929ADB3@vl.videotron.ca>e   John Smith wrote: F > have been forwarded to the appropriate people within Hewlett-Packard    C > By appropriate people, I'm sure they mean the guy who carries the_ > paper to the shredder.  - You're assuming they even bother to print it.2   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 23:59:39 GMT^# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>-" Subject: Re: Carly's feedback linkJ Message-ID: <LhR9a.165872$UXa.127029@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  8 "Steve Lionel" <Steve.Lionel@intel.com> wrote in message2 news:5fne6vcgjvitbu2th1en732olleqdnfvue@4ax.com...A > On Thu, 06 Mar 2003 14:02:46 GMT, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>. wrote: >DD > >And the following is the only response you'll get back, as I have2 > >found out by using the link to carly's mailbag: >  > snip >1D > >By appropriate people, I'm sure they mean the guy who carries the > >paper to the shredder._ >oF > Don't be so sure.  A couple of weeks ago, I got contacted by Carly'sF > office to help resolve a customer problem with Compaq Visual Fortran? > that had somehow gotten there - though the customer had nevers botheredE > to ask CVF support.  And the problem was that the customer had lostU > his product CD...R >RC > While you may get a form letter in response initially, there IS aeF > staff that looks into each requests and tries to do the right thing.    C How about the ones that take care of advertising and marketing VMS?-  D If that's done, then all the other things naturally fall into place.B Without it, Oracle lays off the people who write and maintain Rdb,A current customers think about switching to AIX/Solaris/Linux, key^D 3rd-party apps are de-supported on VMS, several gaggles of 3rd-party: vendors get to write-off their investment in VMS tools and3 applications, and ZKO gets shut down. Does HP care?_  E I have an opportunity I'm currently working on that could amount to a E couple handfuls of ES80's or even a GS series box and associated RAIDiD in a fully disaster-tolerant configuration for a complete VMS newbieA customer, and several million dollars in custom applications, yet A without a visible, public presence for VMS and Alphaservers (read-C 'advertising and marketing'), it'll be a tough sell to the board ofp@ directors, even if VMS is the best technical choice of operating' system for this particular application.^  F Their technical people are telling me that VMS is dead, Alpha is dead,C and no amount of Itanic will convince them otherwise. They say that1F there is nothing *currently* public that could change their perception; because they don't feel that HP is putting it's money up to;D demonstrate that they are irrefutably committed to VMS. They rightlyC point out that a few Powerpoint presentations with pro-VMS messagesnF isn't the same as an advertising campaign. They don't want to be stuck@ with an orphaned o/s, and they view an advertising and marketingF commitment for VMS to be instrumental in ensuring that does not occur.  F HP needs to convince a wide audience that not only is it 'cool' to useF VMS, it's the right thing for today and the next 20 years. Advertising and marketing does that.  C "VMS can get you from A to B and beyond more reliably, with greateraE adherence to Open standards than any other operating system." or some  similar pitch.    F Picture several equipment racks filled with coffee makers, pots filledD to varying degrees with steaming coffee - 24-hour clocks on the wallE showing local time as 3am, opened packages of 'No Doze' strewn acrossUB desktops, open bottles of Jolt cola, some young and some graybeardC sysadmin types sleeping on the floor or on/under desks while others ' are struggling to keep their eyes open.-   The copy (Version 1):DD "When you have that important school play to attend or a dinner dateA with your girlfriend, the last place you want to be spending your E nights is at work dealing with hackers, viruses, worms, or just plain7
 flakiness.  2 OpenVMS - The operating system that's your slave."     The copy (Version 2):n; "How do you expect to move your business forward in today's4@ competitive 24x7 on-line world when your staff is exhausted from0 fighting the operating system you currently use?  D OpenVMS - The operating system of choice for businesses that want to crush the competition 24x7."  F A series of ads targeted at different levels within organizations will get the message across.a  * (c) 2003, John Smith. All rights reserved.   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Mar 2003 15:39:49 -0800-. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)? Subject: Re: Editor wars - Was: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?W= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0303061539.61372a75@posting.google.com>I  k "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> wrote in message news:<b47slp$1roe8v$1@ID-141708.news.dfncis.de>...^ > Alan E. Feldman wrote: > >...H > > With EDT it takes approx. 0.0 seconds. With EVE I get 2 to 3 secondsG > > of unreadably fast messages in sequence at the bottom of the screeniC > > with the cursor moving left and right across it and the messageiH > > changing from normal to reverse video and back a few times. Why even > >... > & > Don't know what these messages are,   2 I peeked at the MESSAGES buffer and here they are:  lB Editing new file.  Could not find: _IDS03$DKA200:[FT.COM]NEW.FILE;9 EDT keypad defined (for more information, see help on EDTn
 DIFFERENCES).i* Executing commands in initialization file:! DISK$DATA1:[FELDMAN]AEFINIT.EVE;3 6 Editor will not check for modified attributes on exit.   + > I don't see them, is it possible that you0) > customization added that is doing this?/  A It happens even with /NOINIT, though it takes a little less time.  Here's my init file verbatim:/  @ ! TPU IF GET_INFO (SCREEN, "MOTIF") THEN SET (MOUSE,ON) ELSE SET (MOUSE,OFF) ENDIFR! ! DEF KEY=CONTROL-B SET WIDTH 132   ! DEF KEY=CONTROL-N SET WIDTH 80 ! DEF KEY=F8 QUIT  DEF KEY=GOLD-E EXITY DEF KEY=GOLD-Q QUITp6 DEF KEY=GOLD-X TPU WRITE_FILE (SELECT_RANGE,"TMP.TMP")# ! DEF KEY=GOLD-LEFT  "SHIFT LEFT 8"y$ ! DEF KEY=GOLD-RIGHT "SHIFT RIGHT 8" SET CURSOR BOUND SET NOEXIT ATTRIBUTE CHECK SET SCROLL MARGIN 33% 33%/
 SET NOWRAP  D I am running VMS 6.1 on some boxes, 6.2 on others. I don't know what you're running.   J > > reaches the top, the cursor is still not at the top. The cursor has toI > > wait for the message at the bottom of the screen to flash "Attempt to D > > move past the beginning of buffer AEFL.COM". First it appears in > >... > F > Not that I want you to give up EDT and move to EVE, but try this andF > it may help you the next time you have to use EVE for something that > EDT doesn't do as well., >  > $!  > $ create sys$login:eve$edt.dif > -  255,  258 > !    if current_offset = 0 > !    thenRQ > !       move_vertical (-1);                     ! Output error message if @ bobD
 > !    endif;n > -  311,  314+ > !if mark (NONE) = end_of (current_buffer)t > !then 3 > !    move_vertical (1);  ! force an error messagee	 > !endif;e > -  606,  609+ > !if mark (NONE) = end_of (current_buffer)2 > !then 2 > !    move_vertical (1); ! force an error message	 > !endif;b > -  702,  7025 > !       move_vertical (-1);     ! for error message  > - 1048, 1051+ > !if mark (NONE) = end_of (current_buffer)u > !theni/ > !    move_vertical (1); ! force error message 	 > !endif;f > /e > $!' > $ EDIT/SUM SYS$EXAMPLES:EVE$EDT.TPU -R4 >     /UPDATE=(SYS$LOGIN:EVE$EDT.DIF)/out=sys$login: > $!? > $ edit/tpu/nodisplay /command=sys$input sys$login:eve$edt.tpu  > eve_extend_tpu ("*"); - > eve_save_extended_tpu("sys$login:new_eve");  > $!   OK. I'll try it later.  n > P.S.= > Did you ever try my attempt at the NOTRUNCATE that I postedt > a few days ago?e  D Not yet. I normally need SET NOTRUNCATE for viewing log files and myF EDT init file and maybe a few other things I can't think of right now.E The database files were from my previous job and your code might have:C been a big help for that. But I'll save it for the next time I havei- such a task. I'll let you know when I try it.   
 Thanks again!0   Alan E. Feldman    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 02:26:31 GMT # From: ualski <ualski@earthlink.net>.? Subject: Re: Editor wars - Was: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ? - Message-ID: <3E68033B.25C02BC1@earthlink.net>n  G I'm pretty certain there were only two pieces to them - CRT & Keyboard.lG The CRT box was fairly large and boxy. Don't know about the innards but1F core is a possibility. They were hand-me-downs in 1975. Neat terminals never the less.0   Jim Agnew wrote: > J > were thos the hazeltines with a big cpu box under it about the size of aG > pizza box vs3100, a little "neck", and then the crt box above it, allf  > one piece, with CORE memory??? >  > jimu >  > ualski wrote:0 > >e > > Paul Sture wrote:  > >F > > > / > > > Anyone remember SOS, whilst we are at it?l > > > -- > > > Paul Sture > >CM > > I loved SOS after using TECO, not that I admited that in public. That and L > > those Hazeltine terminals with neon lamps under the tall push-buttons on6 > > the keyboard where a big improvement over KSR/ASR. > >  > > -- Aaron Sliwinski >  > --H > "4,000 years ago I made a mistake."  Elrond Half-Elven, in "Fellowship > of the Ring"   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Mar 2003 22:36 CDT' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)V? Subject: Re: Editor wars - Was: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?R, Message-ID: <6MAR200322362386@gerg.tamu.edu>  2 spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes...~ }clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) wrote in message news:<4W$L+zSe$+n6@eisner.encompasserve.org>...E }Those who complain that you can only see one buffer at a time in EDTnC }should then *understand* that that is exactly my problem with longiE }lines in EVE. I have to SHIFT to see another screen-width section of0C }the line. And to read a file with many long lines, I have to shiftB+ }back and forth, back and forth, ad naseum.  } @ }I wasn't restricting my comment here to writing 80-column code.  G Well, you can switch between 80 and 132 column displays from inside EVEf8 (SET WIDTH 132, SET WIDTH 80). This helps in some cases.  B If your terminal is set wider, EVE retains the current width. ThisA is useful on a workstation display. Using the "Big Font" with the0@ "Normal 80/Condensed 132" settings on a DECterm, I can get up toH something like 177 characters wide (which displays using the "condensed"H font, of course) - if horizontal scrollbars were enabled on the DECterm,F persumably you could go higher, but it wouldn't be any more usefull toI you that the scrollbar on the direct DECwindows interface of EVE (without F scrolling sideways it goes up to about 112 wide with the default font,G which it doesn't appear to be possible to change from inside EVE - it's,: the same font my DECterms use when at 80 characters wide).  F I don't normally use EVE. Or EDT, for that matter. I normally use LSE,H but it is very similar to EVE in most respects (as I recall, back when IG first tried them out EVE's "EDT" keypad had two differences in behavior.H from the real one but LSE's only had one - I no longer remember what theH second one was, but the one LSE also has is that you can't have a searchD patter that includes the end of line since both the "Return", or theF equivalent Control-M, and "Enter" keys terminate the pattern and startD the search; not so with EDT, it lets you use "Return" (or ^M) in theF search string as the pattern entry does not terminate when you hit it, only when you hit Enter).   I I have a key (GOLD +) defined to switch to 132 wide, and another (GOLD -)eK to go to 80. If that isn't enough, with the "two or more buffers on screen"tD thing and shifting (which I also have defined as a key) I find I canK examine/copy between any two columns in a file (the "two" buffers on screen J can both be the same buffer - same buffer, different viewport at different? locations in the file including different shifts horizontally).o  G }If I need multiple buffers on the screen simultaneously, I'll use EVE.,3 }But I almost never need multiple buffers this way.   C I use them frequently when programming. I often use a second buffervA to look at include files, and other source files. I also use them8C for cutting from one file and pasting into another, which I do fromR
 time to time.M  	 }> Simon.N }Alan E. Feldman   --- Carl   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Mar 2003 18:17:55 -0800s1 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)e" Subject: Re: Fibre Channel and SCS= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0303061817.2aff68dc@posting.google.com>u  m jbrankin@ntlworld.com (Jim Brankin) wrote in message news:<863f19d6.0303060138.c71d817@posting.google.com>... H >   Are there any plans to use 802.11b or other wireless LAN products as > a cluster interconnect?   B Assuming a VMS node is connected to Ethernet, and that Ethernet isC connected to a wireless Access Point, which talks to another AccesstD Point and then through Ethernet to another VMS node, then in theory,D if the 802.11b equipment does bridging, and it operates at its ratedE speed of 11 megabits (thus meeting the Cluster Software SPD's minimum.A bandwidth requirement of 10 megabits), why shouldn't it just worky today?  Has anyone tried this?  E If direct attachment were required, drivers for PCI or PCMCIA 802.11btD wireless cards would require some work to be done in VMS, I presume.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 19:06:17 GMT2 From: "H.Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> D Subject: Re: hobbiest RDB/Sql*Services security (unrelated question)2 Message-ID: <J_M9a.10052$M4.65362@typhoon.bart.nl>  < "Marc Chametzky" <marc+spam@bluevine.net> schreef in bericht# news:3E6531B3.60308@bluevine.net...r8 > > where did you get the rdb and sql distribution kits?? > > Are the licenses covered by the hobbyist PAK from Montagar?  > A > Oracle provides them as part of their Oracle Technology Network K > (otn.oracle.com). If you log in, click on "Downloads", you'll see "Oracle  RdbF( > Products" under the Database category. >  > --Marc >B Marc,h  I thanks for the pointer. One problem though: I have just a modem link withlI the Internet and the download file is more than 900 MB. At a little under/( 10MB per hour that boils down to 4 days!? But in two months we'll have ADSL, that should speed things up.    Hans   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Mar 2003 00:20:58 -0600P/ From: guthrey@encompasserve.org (Chris Guthrey))D Subject: Re: hobbiest RDB/Sql*Services security (unrelated question)3 Message-ID: <XYYs5VoJ1Pks@eisner.encompasserve.org>t   Hi Hans,  M I think you must be refering to the Oracle9i for VMS download. That is 957MB!0  M The RDB 7.4 that I d/l for my AS1000A was about 60 MB.  Much more reasonable!lG (Because I didn't read the docs I found out the hard way that RDB7.5 is K optimised for a later version of the Alpha CPU than what is in my AS1000A!)f  M I actually did try to install Oracle9i and in the end gave it up as being too G hard... There seemed to be missing setup files, as far as I could tell.   O I had RDB installed inside 30 minutes. It is a very mature product with an mindCN boggling amount of control/admin features, and yet performs extremely well and is extremely robust.  M RDB itself appears to have very good security.   I've never used SQl/ServicesoJ for RDB before till now, and am still famiarising myself with SQL/Services	 security.o   cheers - Chris G   > Marc,  > K > thanks for the pointer. One problem though: I have just a modem link withdK > the Internet and the download file is more than 900 MB. At a little unders* > 10MB per hour that boils down to 4 days!A > But in two months we'll have ADSL, that should speed things up.2 >  > Hans >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 16:15:32 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>2 Subject: Re: hp DECforms V3.3 Product Announcement/ Message-ID: <3E67AC5A.56E946B5@vl.videotron.ca>    Sue Skonetski wrote:D > running on OpenVMS systems. DECforms V3.3 is a maintenance release: > demonstrating the OpenVMS commitment to product quality.  N I start off with an experience of just about every Digital product I have everH purchased being enf-of-lifed, so I am quite weary of any that do remain.  N Is there a consensus on whether DECforms is still truly strategic, or are theyP keeping it just barely alive for the existing customer base ? (a bit like FMS) ?  N I am not talking about end of support. Just future development, marketing etc.   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Mar 2003 13:43:42 -0800p1 From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski)e= Subject: Re: HP killing Golden Eggs- future of goose unknown.c= Message-ID: <857e9e41.0303061343.54b99619@posting.google.com>b   Dear Newsgroup,e  A I have taken your imput as well as some other I have received and2D created message which I have sent to the folks responsible for this.  F I do not know what the result will be, but I have really tried on this one.  
 Warm Regards,  suea    t VAXVMS <bounce@notmail.com> wrote in message news:<BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E4903027BCB@rlghncst964.usps.gov>...9 > Did anybody else find this tool to be extremely useful?  > $ > I think y'all know what to do. :^) >  > I already am.h >  > ========================" > William W. Webb - EMS Operations+ > OpenVMS Systems Support - USPS DSSC AnnexP. > 4730 Hargrove Road, Raleigh, NC 27616-2874  @ > 919.325.7500 x4186  <FirstInitialLastNameAtEmailDotUSPSDotGov>   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 00:07:48 GMT + From: "lbalders@gte.net" <lbalders@gte.net>  Subject: HSZ monitor from VMS?' Message-ID: <3E67E23D.5E97153E@gte.net>m  D I recently connected an HSZ70 to my Alpha 4100. There are apparently three ways to monitor the HSZ:& 1. terminal cabled to HSZ console portG 2. Alpha com port cabled to HSZ console port, access via "set host/dte" . 3. Client SWCC software from Windows PC to HSZ  8 I would like to "talk" to the HSZ from VMS. Like connect6 and issue command "show storage full", and have output3 be available for VMS comfile processing. Any ideas?4   Thank you, lbalders@gte.neta   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 00:42:34 GMTe6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)" Subject: Re: HSZ monitor from VMS?3 Message-ID: <_VR9a.65772$AV5.840301@news.chello.at>/  U In article <3E67E23D.5E97153E@gte.net>, "lbalders@gte.net" <lbalders@gte.net> writes:ME >I recently connected an HSZ70 to my Alpha 4100. There are apparently  >three ways to monitor the HSZ:6' >1. terminal cabled to HSZ console portSH >2. Alpha com port cabled to HSZ console port, access via "set host/dte"/ >3. Client SWCC software from Windows PC to HSZf >.9 >I would like to "talk" to the HSZ from VMS. Like connect27 >and issue command "show storage full", and have outputm4 >be available for VMS comfile processing. Any ideas?  I Look for a program HSZTERM. Maybe it was on the ConDist CDs at some time.r   -- t Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERr% Network and OpenVMS system specialist5 E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 00:58:18 GMTr From: "McEagle" <spam@spam.com> " Subject: Re: HSZ monitor from VMS?< Message-ID: <K8S9a.12428$lW3.197988@twister.tampabay.rr.com>  K HSZTERM is another way.  It used to be on the CONDIST CDs but I don't thinkSG it's there any more.  You may have to look back a few years to find it.( After installing you just typeI    $ SET HOST/SCSI Physical-disk-on-HSZ  from a session on your VMS node.-   Mike  E <lbalders@gte.net> wrote in message news:3E67E23D.5E97153E@gte.net...8F > I recently connected an HSZ70 to my Alpha 4100. There are apparently  > three ways to monitor the HSZ:( > 1. terminal cabled to HSZ console portI > 2. Alpha com port cabled to HSZ console port, access via "set host/dte"-0 > 3. Client SWCC software from Windows PC to HSZ >/: > I would like to "talk" to the HSZ from VMS. Like connect8 > and issue command "show storage full", and have output5 > be available for VMS comfile processing. Any ideas?V >l > Thank you, lbalders@gte.netd >' >e   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 19:23:55 -0600  From: brandon@dalsemi.com(" Subject: Re: HSZ monitor from VMS?1 Message-ID: <03030619235581@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>g  F > I recently connected an HSZ70 to my Alpha 4100. There are apparently  > three ways to monitor the HSZ:( > 1. terminal cabled to HSZ console portI > 2. Alpha com port cabled to HSZ console port, access via "set host/dte"00 > 3. Client SWCC software from Windows PC to HSZ >a: > I would like to "talk" to the HSZ from VMS. Like connect8 > and issue command "show storage full", and have output5 > be available for VMS comfile processing. Any ideas?3 >8 > Thank you, lbalders@gte.net0  A When you say terminal cable, do you imply a DECserver attachment?l  M I use a DECserver attached to my HSG80 controllers.  This allows me to telnetgL to the port of each HSG80 controller and access the console prompt for each.   I can access my controllers by:K   $ TELNET DSXYZ 2001 , %TELNET-I-TRYING, Trying ... nnn.nnn.nnn.nnn4 %TELNET-I-SESSION, Session 01, host dsxyz, port 2001( -TELNET-I-ESCAPE, Escape character is ^] dsxyz.1> TELNET> exit, %TELNET-S-LCLCLOSED, Local connection closed4 -TELNET-I-SESSION, Session 01, host dsxyz, port 2001    O This does raise security concerns, since anyone can access the ports unless youaO create a secure environment for your controller access.  The software available4L in our network switches/hubs allows for only specific IP addresses to access the controller ports.   E You can also acheive this by creating a private access using HW & SW.0     John Brandon VMS Systems Administratorp Dallas Semiconductor john.brandon@dalsemi.com 972.371.4172 wkf 972.371.4003 fxL   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 21:37:51 -0600r1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>2" Subject: Re: HSZ monitor from VMS?' Message-ID: <3E68140F.A9BAB035@fsi.net>u   brandon@dalsemi.com wrote: > H > > I recently connected an HSZ70 to my Alpha 4100. There are apparently" > > three ways to monitor the HSZ:* > > 1. terminal cabled to HSZ console portK > > 2. Alpha com port cabled to HSZ console port, access via "set host/dte"p2 > > 3. Client SWCC software from Windows PC to HSZ > >e< > > I would like to "talk" to the HSZ from VMS. Like connect: > > and issue command "show storage full", and have output7 > > be available for VMS comfile processing. Any ideas?m > >8 > > Thank you, lbalders@gte.net0 > C > When you say terminal cable, do you imply a DECserver attachment?m  F Well, yeah, obviously that works; but, I'm sure he meant (literally) a< terminal & cable. A VT and a null-modem wired MMJ-MMJ cable.  O > I use a DECserver attached to my HSG80 controllers.  This allows me to telnetyN > to the port of each HSG80 controller and access the console prompt for each. > ! > I can access my controllers by:1 >  > $ TELNET DSXYZ 2001 . > %TELNET-I-TRYING, Trying ... nnn.nnn.nnn.nnn6 > %TELNET-I-SESSION, Session 01, host dsxyz, port 2001* > -TELNET-I-ESCAPE, Escape character is ^]
 > dsxyz.1> > TELNET> exit. > %TELNET-S-LCLCLOSED, Local connection closed6 > -TELNET-I-SESSION, Session 01, host dsxyz, port 2001 > Q > This does raise security concerns, since anyone can access the ports unless yougQ > create a secure environment for your controller access.  The software available N > in our network switches/hubs allows for only specific IP addresses to access > the controller ports.2 > G > You can also acheive this by creating a private access using HW & SW.u  C ...such as a dedicated LAN segment (not connected to the enterpriseV network(s)).   -- a David J. Dachterau dba DJE Systems- http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/-   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Mar 2003 11:18:19 -0800/7 From: jones.computer.srv@worldnet.att.net (Daryl Jones)mO Subject: Re: Maximum Record Size Error, -RMS-F-MRS, invalid maximum record size,= Message-ID: <8a646952.0303061118.7db7bd00@posting.google.com>   g dooleys@snowy.net.au (dooley) wrote in message news:<1ca82fc6.0303052316.419da2a@posting.google.com>....n > del.duncan@intel.com (Del Duncan) wrote in message news:<98342c9f.0303051553.7c5e2e9c@posting.google.com>...F > > I'm trying to use an FDL to create and convert files but I get theI > > above error, even when creating a simple test file.    I'm attemptinglH > > to create the files as Indexed, variable-length records, record size
 > > 25042. > > D > > In debugging this, I find that if I set the FILE-ORGANIZATION toH > > SEQUENTIAL, it then works, but if I set it to INDEXED, it fails.   IJ > > did some experimentation and found that I could get it to create a newC > > file at 6500 but not at 7500.    The "OpenVMS Record ManagementoH > > Utilities Reference Manual" states that Indexed files can have appr. > > 32K records. > > 5 > I've just tried it and a record size of 16384 works 8 > while a size of 32768 fails. (on alpha OpenVMS V7.2-1)$ > ...many versions of test.fdl later) > it seems that the cutoff point is 32232 - > are your rms sysgen parameters different to: > SYSGEN>  SHOW RMS  (P > Parameter Name         Current    Default     Min.      Max.     Unit  DynamicP > --------------         -------    -------    -------   -------   ----  -------N > RMS_DFMBC                    16         16         1        127 Blocks     DN > RMS_DFMBFSDK                  0          0         0        127 Blocks     DN > RMS_DFMBFSMT                  0          0         0        127 Blocks     DN > RMS_DFMBFSUR                  0          0         0        127 Buffers    DN > RMS_DFMBFREL                  0          0         0        127 Buffers    DN > RMS_DFMBFIDX                  0          0         0        127 Buffers    DN > RMS_DFMBFHSH                  0          0         0        127 Buffers    DN > RMS_PROLOGUE                  0          0         0          3 Prolog-Lvl DN > RMS_EXTEND_SIZE               0          0         0      65535 Blocks     DM > RMS_FILEPROT              64000      64000         0      65535 Prot-mask  EN > RMS_DFNBC                     8          8         1        127 Blocks     DN > RMS_DFLRL                     0          0         0      32767 Bytes      DN > RMS_HEURISTIC                 0          0         0          1 Boolean    DN > RMS_VCC_DFW                   0          0         0          1 Boolean    DN > RMSD1                         0          0         0          1            D > SYSGEN>  V >  > Phil  	 Everyone,   ; The maximun record size in a RMS file is as follows (1991):f  = Sequential (Fix or VAR): 32,767 bytes or 64 blocks of 512 - 1 F                   (VFC): 32,767 - FSZ where FSZ is fixed control field1                               size of VFC records5$       Sequential (Tape): 9,995 bytes  %          Relative (Fix): 32,225 bytes %                   (VAR): 32,253 bytes F                   (VFC): 32,253 - FSZ bytes where FSZ is fixed control field 1                               size of VFC records %    Indexed (Fix or VAR): 32,224 bytesi  F When converting ISAM files use the FDL Analyze tool to create your FDLB file for tuning the ISAM file. If you are just defragging the fileB ISAM file then convert the file directly. One thing to remember isF that the bucket size must be an intergral number of disk cluster size.C This will reduce wasted space inside the RMS bucket. One more item,FA the bucket size can't be less than the longest record size in thet@ file. You can force the the bucket to be less by hard coding theE value, however, FDL utility will error out otherwise. RMS at run-timer$ will error out on this kind of file.   Daryl Jonesa   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 21:18:05 -0500* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>O Subject: Re: Maximum Record Size Error, -RMS-F-MRS, invalid maximum record sizee2 Message-ID: <3-ednenAcM7_nPWjXTWcpQ@metrocast.net>  D "Daryl Jones" <jones.computer.srv@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message7 news:8a646952.0303061118.7db7bd00@posting.google.com...    ...M     One thing to remember isH > that the bucket size must be an intergral number of disk cluster size.  G I very much doubt that.  However, *if* you're extending the file in thesC smallest possible increments (which is usually not a good idea, foriL performance reasons), *then* having a bucket size that is either an integralF multiple of or integrally divides the disk cluster size may materially reduce space waste."  6 > This will reduce wasted space inside the RMS bucket.  G No, it won't.  However, as noted above if your file is extended in very-K small fragments you'll reduce space waste *outside* the RMS buckets (unless)J RMS-32 will combine left-over space less than a full bucket in size from aD previous allocation with the new allocation, though since this would5 fragment buckets internally it may well not do that).8    One more item,>C > the bucket size can't be less than the longest record size in thee > file.b  " That was the point I made earlier.   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 04:11:32 GMTk+ From: Jeff Cameron <JCam90502@jcameron.com>NY Subject: MME users, Your Multi-volume Tape Backups may be bad on all	versions of VMS	versh2 Message-ID: <BA8D5BF3.5A07%JCam90502@jcameron.com>  L > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand< this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.   --B_3129826292_396228852. Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit   L This email is being re-broadcasted from 12/15/2002, because the patch is now' available for OpenVMS version 7.3 only. H We are still waiting for the patch for OpenVMS Versions 7.2-1, 7.2-2 and 7.3-1.  % The patch for 7.3 can be located at :R  L http://ftp1.support.compaq.com/public/vms/axp/v7.3/dec-axpvms-vms73_backup-v 0200--4.READMEL http://ftp1.support.compaq.com/public/vms/axp/v7.3/dec-axpvms-vms73_backup-v 0200--4.pcsi-dcx_axpexei  % Images Affected:[SYSLIB]BACKUPSHR.EXE3   -----------------I  F Attention MME users : Your Multi-volume Tape Backups may be bad on all- versions of VMS from 7.2-1 through VMS 7.3-1.n     OVERVIEW  K A serious bug in Compaq/HPs BACKUP utility which causes backup savesets onaL multiple tape volumes to be improperly written causing restore operations to< fail with one of two errors when reading subsequent volumes:  J %BACKUP-W-NOT1STVOL, <tape-device>:[000000]*.*; is not the start of a save set  or .J %BACKUP-I-WRONGVOL, <tape-device>:[000000].; is not the next volume in the set      PROBLEM DESCRIPTION   F The VMS BACKUP image improperly writes/rewrites/initializes the volumeG headers for multi-volume backups when a saveset spans to any other tapeiL volume after the first volume, only when the Native OpenVMS Media ManagementL Environment (MME) is enabled. MME is used by Compaq/HP, and sometimes, otherI third party tape management products, to handle multi-volume ANSI labeled  tapes. e  G MME is enabled by various layered products that involve writing of ANSIlG formatted tape volumes. Layered products that support multi-volume tapep) replication are examples of users of MME.i  J If MME is not enabled on your system, you will not experience the problem,I and your backups are secure. If MME is active by any VMS layered or otherdH third party product, then you will not be able to restore, from savesetsF which span tape volumes, those files that are written after the volume transition.i  K The same code section also disables Fast positioning (Skip File operations)aL on DLT tape drives whenever the SCSI magtape drive detects an error on a DLTI device, regardless of the use or non use of MME. When fast positioning is J disabled, the SCSI magtape driver skips files by doing sequential read andJ ignore operations to space through a file. This can dramatically slow downH backup operations for backups that append to tapes or restore operations, that must position to a saveset on the tape.     PROBLEM DETERMINATIONc  J This problem affects all versions of VMS BACKUP from 7.2-1 to 7.3-1. Also,J depending on firmware of various types and models of DLT tape drives, thisG problem may or may not occur. No research by Compaq/HP has been done toRL determine which tape drives are or are not effected. If you use some sort ofG layered product for performing backups, tape replication, or tape medianJ management, you must contact the manufacturer of the software to determineG if the product uses the native OpenVMS MME environment. If you just usehC native VMS backup commands to do your backups, you have no problem.a  L Known third party software products that use MME are MTI's TapeControl. SomeL of Compaq/HP's integrated backup solutions also use MME. Contact the support5 for your software product for absolute determination.   J If you are interested in determining if Fast positioning has been disabledL by the SCSI tape driver after an error has occurred, please send email to meI at jcam90502@jcameron.com, and I will send you instructions on how to usetJ ANALYZE/SYSTEM to examine the UCB (Unit Control Block) in the SCSI magtapeK driver to determine if fast positioning is enabled or disabled for your DLT  device.'     IMMEDIATE WORKAROUND  J MME is enabled and disabled by calls to the MME system routines and can beK turned on and off by whatever utility is using it. In some cases a softwareeL product that uses MME only enables it as it is needed. In other cases it mayH be enabled at system boot and remains enabled until system shutdown. YouI must determine which is the case for your site, and if possible make sureh; MME is disabled while generating multi-volume tape backups.   F There is no workaround for the loss of fast positioning after a device( error, other than rebooting your system.    	 SOLUTION h  K Compaq/HP has identified the problem and will have a patch/update availablerK soon. The Compaq/HP patch website for VMS can be found at the following webp
 address :   * http://ftp1.support.compaq.com/public/vms/  K At this time (March 6, 2003) Compaq/HP has only released the patch for this E problem for version 7.3 of VMS. The patch for 7.3 can be located at :o  L http://ftp1.support.compaq.com/public/vms/axp/v7.3/dec-axpvms-vms73_backup-v 0200--4.READMEL http://ftp1.support.compaq.com/public/vms/axp/v7.3/dec-axpvms-vms73_backup-v 0200--4.pcsi-dcx_axpexen  % Images Affected:[SYSLIB]BACKUPSHR.EXEi    H Compaq/HP highly recommends that all BACKUP users apply the patch/update, mentioned above, even if you do not use MME.  H Questions about this problem may be sent to me at JCam90502@jcameron.com   Jeff Cameron www.jcameron.com/vms/    --B_3129826292_39622885m- Content-type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1"n+ Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printabley   <HTML> <HEAD>L <TITLE>MME users, Your Multi-volume Tape Backups may be bad on all versions=  of VMS</TITLE>H </HEAD>i <BODY>N <FONT FACE=3D"Courier New">This email is being re-broadcasted from 12/15/2002=F , because the patch is now available for OpenVMS version 7.3 only.<BR>L We are still waiting for the patch for OpenVMS Versions 7.2-1, 7.2-2 and 7.= 3-1.<BR> <BR>) The patch for 7.3 can be located at :<BR>g <BR>L http://ftp1.support.compaq.com/public/vms/axp/v7.3/dec-axpvms-vms73_backup-= v0200--4.README<BR>uL http://ftp1.support.compaq.com/public/vms/axp/v7.3/dec-axpvms-vms73_backup-= v0200--4.pcsi-dcx_axpexe<BR> <BR>* Images Affected:[SYSLIB]BACKUPSHR.EXE <BR> <BR> -----------------<BR>r <BR>L Attention MME users : Your Multi-volume Tape Backups may be bad on all vers=- ions of VMS from 7.2-1 through VMS 7.3-1.<BR>  <BR> <BR> OVERVIEW<BR> <BR>L A serious bug in Compaq/HP&#8217;s BACKUP utility which causes backup saves=M ets on multiple tape volumes to be improperly written causing restore operat=aI ions to fail with one of two errors when reading subsequent volumes: <BR>  =A0 <BR>L %BACKUP-W-NOT1STVOL, &lt;tape-device&gt;:[000000]*.*; is not the start of a=  save set <BR> or <BR> L %BACKUP-I-WRONGVOL, &lt;tape-device&gt;:[000000].; is not the next volume i= n the set <BR> <BR> <BR> PROBLEM DESCRIPTION <BR> <BR>L The VMS BACKUP image improperly writes/rewrites/initializes the volume head=M ers for multi-volume backups when a saveset spans to any other tape volume a=eM fter the first volume, only when the Native OpenVMS Media Management Environ=dM ment (MME) is enabled. MME is used by Compaq/HP, and sometimes, other third = M party tape management products, to handle multi-volume ANSI labeled tapes. <=t BR>  =A0 <BR>L MME is enabled by various layered products that involve writing of ANSI for=M matted tape volumes. Layered products that support multi-volume tape replica= ' tion are examples of users of MME. <BR>. =A0 <BR>L If MME is not enabled on your system, you will not experience the problem, =M and your backups are secure. If MME is active by any VMS layered or other th=SM ird party product, then you will not be able to restore, from savesets which=IM  span tape volumes, those files that are written after the volume transition=v .<BR>4 <BR>L The same code section also disables Fast positioning (Skip File operations)=M  on DLT tape drives whenever the SCSI magtape drive detects an error on a DL=eM T device, regardless of the use or non use of MME. When fast positioning is = M disabled, the SCSI magtape driver skips files by doing sequential read and i= M gnore operations to space through a file. This can dramatically slow down ba= M ckup operations for backups that append to tapes or restore operations that =u+ must position to a saveset on the tape.<BR>  <BR> <BR> PROBLEM DETERMINATION <BR> <BR>L This problem affects all versions of VMS BACKUP from 7.2-1 to 7.3-1. Also, =M depending on firmware of various types and models of DLT tape drives, this p=nM roblem may or may not occur. No research by Compaq/HP has been done to deter= M mine which tape drives are or are not effected. If you use some sort of laye=lM red product for performing backups, tape replication, or tape media manageme="M nt, you must contact the manufacturer of the software to determine if the pr=TM oduct uses the native OpenVMS MME environment. If you just use native VMS ba=I: ckup commands to do your backups, you have no problem.<BR> <BR>L Known third party software products that use MME are MTI's TapeControl. Som=M e of Compaq/HP's integrated backup solutions also use MME. Contact the suppo=3< rt for your software product for absolute determination.<BR> <BR>L If you are interested in determining if Fast positioning has been disabled =M by the SCSI tape driver after an error has occurred, please send email to me=mM  at jcam90502@jcameron.com, and I will send you instructions on how to use A=LM NALYZE/SYSTEM to examine the UCB (Unit Control Block) in the SCSI magtape dr=dM iver to determine if fast positioning is enabled or disabled for your DLT de= 	 vice.<BR>e <BR> <BR> IMMEDIATE WORKAROUND <BR>  <BR>L MME is enabled and disabled by calls to the MME system routines and can be =M turned on and off by whatever utility is using it. In some cases a software =eM product that uses MME only enables it as it is needed. In other cases it may=_M  be enabled at system boot and remains enabled until system shutdown. You mu=sM st determine which is the case for your site, and if possible make sure MME = ; is disabled while generating multi-volume tape backups.<BR>  <BR>L There is no workaround for the loss of fast positioning after a device erro=( r, other than rebooting your system.<BR> <BR> <BR>
 SOLUTION <BR>i <BR>L Compaq/HP has identified the problem and will have a patch/update available=M  soon. The Compaq/HP patch website for VMS can be found at the following web=$  address : <BR>  =A0 <BR>/ http://ftp1.support.compaq.com/public/vms/ <BR>  =A0 <BR>L At this time (March 6, 2003) Compaq/HP has only released the patch for this=J  problem for version 7.3 of VMS. The patch for 7.3 can be located at :<BR> <BR>L http://ftp1.support.compaq.com/public/vms/axp/v7.3/dec-axpvms-vms73_backup-= v0200--4.README<BR>nL http://ftp1.support.compaq.com/public/vms/axp/v7.3/dec-axpvms-vms73_backup-= v0200--4.pcsi-dcx_axpexe<BR> <BR>* Images Affected:[SYSLIB]BACKUPSHR.EXE <BR> <BR> =A0 <BR>L Compaq/HP highly recommends that all BACKUP users apply the patch/update me=. ntioned above, even if you do not use MME.<BR> <BR>L Questions about this problem may be sent to me at JCam90502@jcameron.com<BR= >a <BR> Jeff Cameron<BR> www.jcameron.com/vms/</FONT> </BODY>e </HTML>g     --B_3129826292_39622885--D   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Mar 2003 20:33:47 -0600 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)aJ Subject: Re: Moving from Multinet to TCP/IP Services (LAT/NTY/TNA devices)3 Message-ID: <ov8bHGgAXVKL@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  m In article <bd0f1e10.0303050851.4ab7138f@posting.google.com>, david.gabele@swagelok.com (Dave Gabele) writes:a > G > Has anyone else experienced this or other issues moving from Multinet  > to TCP/IP Services?m  F    We've experienced lots of issues.  I'm sure Multinet is not perfectE    but these were unique to UCX.  Some of them have since been fixed.   E    1)  lack of features, for example SSH2 is just now available as ant      SDK  G    2)  lower quality, like the memory leak that kept killing our 24 x 7       application   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 21:08:37 -0600r1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> J Subject: Re: Moving from Multinet to TCP/IP Services (LAT/NTY/TNA devices)' Message-ID: <3E680D35.8E7C0041@fsi.net>:   Dave Gabele wrote: > [snip]G > Has anyone else experienced this or other issues moving from Multinete > to TCP/IP Services?6  2 IMO, moving away from Multinet is not recommended.  ! A good example of why is like so:l  G If you have system running Mutlinet and another running UCX (nka TCP/IPwA Services for OpenVMS), install the VERB freeware and see how manyh# commands Multinet installs vs. UCX.i  G I did a comparison of this last year. If I can find the e-mail at work,l? I'll forward it to myself at home and post the good parts here.s   -- o David J. Dachterat dba DJE Systemsh http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/i   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Mar 2003 15:55:39 -0800t From: lbalders@gte.net (Lonny)  Subject: Re: MSIE ftp hangs FTPD= Message-ID: <f36ed6aa.0303061555.44f840e4@posting.google.com>n  
 Thank you!   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Mar 2003 14:00:08 -0800s& From: jordan@ccs4vms.com (Rich Jordan) Subject: Northern Light kaput.= Message-ID: <cc5619f2.0303061400.66e7017b@posting.google.com>i  D All the browsers here keep showing a static page that hasn't changedD since Tuesday; same DJI price, same top headlines from 4 March 2003.  F Since 'divine' filed for bankruptcy I guess there's nobody keeping theD data flowing, and maybe nobody around to shut things down... too badC since it was once a very good engine (and it had a great back end).p  < http://www.searchengineshowdown.com/newsarchive/000638.shtml   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 14:28:43 +1030: From: "Barratt, Chris (FMC)" <Chris.Barratt@fmc.sa.gov.au> Subject: Numeric usernamesP Message-ID: <07103702F27FD411ACA30000F8085452044FF2BE@sagemshs001.fmc.sa.gov.au>  J The help for ADD username in authorise states that fully numeric usernamesJ should be avoided because numeric identifiers are not allowed and hence an. identifier for the username cannot be created.  oF What implications are there in a username not having the corresponding= identifier created ?  (and hence in using numeric usernames).   , Thanks in advance, Chris Barratt    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 07:35:09 +0100,: From: Karl Rohwedder <extern.karl.rohwedder@volkswagen.de> Subject: Re: Numeric usernames/ Message-ID: <b49ecc$i8o1@doiweb4.volkswagen.de>,   Barratt, Chris (FMC) schrieb: L > The help for ADD username in authorise states that fully numeric usernamesL > should be avoided because numeric identifiers are not allowed and hence an0 > identifier for the username cannot be created. >  vH > What implications are there in a username not having the corresponding? > identifier created ?  (and hence in using numeric usernames).n >  y > Thanks in advance, > Chris Barratt   H We used (and partly still use) a big application suite, thats needs all F username be 8-digits numbers (in fact it is the user payroll number). I Each user is created with /NOADD_IDENT and gets an identifier XXX_number  E later on so we can GRANT him other idents to control the application.    --    + mit freundlichen Gren | with best regards0    Karl Rohwedder		iT-Ingenieurteam$ Ellernbruch 11		D-38112 Braunschweig  E mailto:it-ingteam(at)t-online.de | mailto:rohwedder(at)decus.decus.ded- mailto:extern.karl.rohwedder(at)volkswagen.de    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 13:49:49 -0400o0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>: Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants/ Message-ID: <3E678A39.4FDC5595@vl.videotron.ca>n   Don Sykes wrote:= > Problem 2: It will take more than Saddam dying or leaving. h  N The USA should have learned its lessons already that it cannot impose dramaticH changes. It must sow the seeds of democracy/capitalism and let them takeL roots. They helped the Taliban push the Soviets out of Afghanistan, and look what happened.  K They helped the Shah of Iran bring Iran into the 20th century and look whatd= happened. Need I go on with all the south american examples ?1  J Note that Ironically, Iraq was good buddies with the USA and helped do theM dirty work that the USA wanted, notably the war against Iran. The USA and theVL rest of the world kept a blind eye to all the atrocities Iraq did because itN was convenient to all, especially when he weakened the radicals in the fringesP of his country, helping prevent fundamentalism spread to neighbouring countries.    N Iraq already has some seed of democracy. The regions are getting more and moreN autonomy with their own governments. The King may still be uncontested, but asJ long as the trend continues, it is best to just help it instead of doing aM major upheaval. At one point, the king may become as relevant as the queen ofcJ england. He gets to continue to benefit from his castles etc, but the restN will be done by a less dictatorial nationla government with devolution for the regions with greater autonomy.  L The USA may be bragging about having been in touch with plenty of oppositionL in Iraq who would be ready to take power once Saddam is removed. HINT: these may just be worse than Saddam. m  N Look at the reforms Iran has gone through since the early radical 1980s. If itM comes from the outside, any country will rebel. If it comes from within, thene it takes roots and grows.n  J Phillipines are a good example. The push to democracy to throw away MarcosL came from within (perhaps with some subtle help from the outside, of course.H But it required no invasion, no foreign military government to overthrow Marcos etc etc.   
 > His son andeD > all the rest of the Baath party have to be removed, since the onlyC > members he has allowed to live are ones that think just like him.e  I Iraqis should decide, not americans or anyone else.  We, as foreigners toeK Iraq, can only complain about Iraq acting outside its own borders, or usingnM banned weapons or torture against his own people. On the other hand, the USA,rL with the death penalty, is really in no position to argue that Saddam has no5 right to kill what his country defines as a criminal.r  N Don't do onto others what you don't want done onto yourself. How would the USAL have reacted if, during the 2000 slection/selection debacle, other countriesK would not have recognised the nomination of Bush Jr as president of the USA G and requested the election considered failed with a new election held ?A  I I could go on and on. I have watched both USA and non-USA media and I can-H understand why do many americans are numbed and don't realise what theirM government is really doing and how much they are lying to the american publiceM and how much propaganda is happening in the USA. Listen to foreign news for anL couple of weeks and you'll see a pretty dramatic difference in facts and you@ will hear the media criticise what Bush Jr says in his speeches.  K HINT: Bush Jr, during the NATO discussions, claimed that the USA had a wide-N coalition of some 13 countries with only 6 opposing the USA.  But all NATO hadL been tasked to do is to deploy DEFENSES in Turkey. It had nothing to do with1 supporting a war on Iraq. Yet, Bush claimed such.   F HINT: When Turkey announced support for the USA war, I saw CNN cut theL announcement before the "If such war is sanctioneed by the UN". At least forN the first few days, after which, I think that they realised it was very wrong,K yet, their editors decided to cut that "IF" statement and make it look like5T Turkey was in full support of granting US troup access. (This was a few months ago).  K And while the USA media may have focused on the work that the UN inspectorssM hadn,t completed by 1998, they unfortunatly never focus on the amount of worklN that they had succesfully done prior to 1998. Note that for all its might, theM USA intelligence had been unaware of the Iraq nuclear efforts until after thes war when inspectors came in.  N That was one of the major arguments used by the Bush Jr admin for a preemptiveJ strike: if their intel had missed that prior to Gulf War Version 1.0, whatN else are they missing now ? Better destroy the country now before the USA gets a bad surprise.1  I > Saddam can play games with the world for years, as he has already done, H > by granting a inspection here, or a dismantling there. The cat & mouse4 > will never end while his group remains in control.  I 1-Inspectors costs are measured in millions. War is measured in Billions.cM 2-Since the inspectors came in in 1991-1992, has Saddam used banned weapons ?   M Until there is an internationally agreed upon process to remove one country's M head of state, there is no legal means to do so, and the USA would go againstPK international law if it wanted to kill a foreign head of state or force itsu  replacement with military force.  K For as much as everyone dislikes Hussein, there can be no precedent set for,N removing a leader you don't like. If the USA removes Hussein by force, what isJ to prevent China from removing the Taiwanese government and installing one5 that would be friendly to re-unification with China ?A  K Bush Jr must be told that he isn't playing with plastic army toys in a sand@J box. He is playing with reak countries, real people, real governments. And+ that he must abide by the wishes of the UN.   M If Bush Jr disregards a veto by the UN and attacks again, will he accept thatt0 the UN will disregard a US veto against Israel ?  D > That's exactly what the French ARE talking about. To protect theirF > relationship with Iraq and appease the arabs in their own community.& > Appeasement is their national motto.  N And one which the USA should have adopted on september 12. If you wnat to stopM being a target for terrorism, you work hard to become friends with arabs, not N raise their level of hatred against you. Europe knows this full well. They areK not new to terrorism. Bush Jr was outclassed and is nowhere near capable of- handling this properly.   D This is the 21st century. War is no longer acceptable as a solution.   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Mar 2003 15:11:40 -0600s+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)y: Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants3 Message-ID: <4hugmDHqyuKG@eisner.encompasserve.org>r  b In article <3E678A39.4FDC5595@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes:   > K > I could go on and on. I have watched both USA and non-USA media and I canEJ > understand why do many americans are numbed and don't realise what theirO > government is really doing and how much they are lying to the american publicsO > and how much propaganda is happening in the USA. Listen to foreign news for aeN > couple of weeks and you'll see a pretty dramatic difference in facts and youB > will hear the media criticise what Bush Jr says in his speeches. >   ? 	You talk as if we aren't clued in.  Of course we are.  We liveA? 	here, you don't.  Here is some latest poll results (as if this-2 	sort of thing should be decided by a poll - NOT):  0 http://www.gallup.com/poll/releases/pr030228.asp  J PRINCETON, NJ -- A new CNN/USA Today/Gallup Poll shows 59% of Americans inH favor of invading Iraq with ground troops in an attempt to remove SaddamO Hussein from power. That level of support is unchanged from last week, and downAG slightly from the 63% found shortly after U.S. Secretary of State Colin.? Powell's U.N. speech arguing for military action against Iraq. t  ? 	To characterize us as being numbed and not realizing what our	o0 	government is doing, is silliness on your part.     > If you wnat to stopAO > being a target for terrorism, you work hard to become friends with arabs, not P > raise their level of hatred against you. Europe knows this full well. They areM > not new to terrorism. Bush Jr was outclassed and is nowhere near capable ofc > handling this properly.e >   > 	I disagree.  You want to stop being a target for terrorism?  B 	Make sure the terrorists pay a price that excruciatingly painful.B 	They come back and do it again?  Make the pain even more painful.! 	They'll get clued in eventually.-  F > This is the 21st century. War is no longer acceptable as a solution.  @ 	Tell that to a Kuwaiti.  If we hadn't invaded when we did, that= 	country would be totally looted and a great many ADDITIONAL	oA 	number of their citizens tortured, raped and otherwise abused bysG 	Iraqi invaders.  Perhaps we should have just dropped leaflets in late l 	1990 early 1991.     @ 	Oh I get it , that was "soooo.... " 20th century.  Pleeze, give 	us a break!!!!    				Robi   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 14:48:39 -0700f+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com>-: Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants% Message-ID: <3E67C237.50100@MMaz.com>2   Rob Young wrote:  c >In article <3E678A39.4FDC5595@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes:e >y >  e >dK >>I could go on and on. I have watched both USA and non-USA media and I canhJ >>understand why do many americans are numbed and don't realise what theirO >>government is really doing and how much they are lying to the american public O >>and how much propaganda is happening in the USA. Listen to foreign news for aeN >>couple of weeks and you'll see a pretty dramatic difference in facts and youB >>will hear the media criticise what Bush Jr says in his speeches. >> >>     >> > @ >	You talk as if we aren't clued in.  Of course we are.  We live@ >	here, you don't.  Here is some latest poll results (as if this3 >	sort of thing should be decided by a poll - NOT):e >i1 >http://www.gallup.com/poll/releases/pr030228.aspt >yK >PRINCETON, NJ -- A new CNN/USA Today/Gallup Poll shows 59% of Americans inoI >favor of invading Iraq with ground troops in an attempt to remove SaddamtP >Hussein from power. That level of support is unchanged from last week, and downH >slightly from the 63% found shortly after U.S. Secretary of State Colin@ >Powell's U.N. speech arguing for military action against Iraq.  >E@ >	To characterize us as being numbed and not realizing what our	1 >	government is doing, is silliness on your part.  >u >y >  e >, >>If you wnat to stopsO >>being a target for terrorism, you work hard to become friends with arabs, not P >>raise their level of hatred against you. Europe knows this full well. They areM >>not new to terrorism. Bush Jr was outclassed and is nowhere near capable ofi >>handling this properly.e >> >>     >> > ? >	I disagree.  You want to stop being a target for terrorism?  rC >	Make sure the terrorists pay a price that excruciatingly painful.pC >	They come back and do it again?  Make the pain even more painful./" >	They'll get clued in eventually. >- >  - >-F >>This is the 21st century. War is no longer acceptable as a solution. >>     >> >eA >	Tell that to a Kuwaiti.  If we hadn't invaded when we did, thatS> >	country would be totally looted and a great many ADDITIONAL	B >	number of their citizens tortured, raped and otherwise abused byH >	Iraqi invaders.  Perhaps we should have just dropped leaflets in late  >	1990 early 1991.   > A >	Oh I get it , that was "soooo.... " 20th century.  Pleeze, give. >	us a break!!!! >' >				Rob >s >n >  t >r Good work Rob!  G You know, if the planes had crashed into the Louvre, the Eiffel Tower, eC Munich, Moscow, there would be a lot less of this 'bleeding heart' nB crap!  The fact that for over ten years, Saddam's atrocities have G continued, these whiners would have us wait another ten years at which kI point, who knows when a nuke or biological will be detonated on domestic a soil.   E Look back at history, WW I and WW II, it was us Yanks that saved the  G Euro-ass from oppression and conquer.  Funny how what was good for one tH generation, country, and time period is no longer the right thing to do E today, HA!  That's one thing about "Lib's," always a double standard (C because their standards (if you call it that) are never based on a s3 foundation or morality and unchanging principles...s   Barrya   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Mar 2003 14:03:40 -0800 . From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman): Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0303061403.45c247f2@posting.google.com>1  d "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message news:<6KSdnb2u-5FD6vujXTWcpg@metrocast.net>...7 > "Jack Peacock" <peacock@simconv.com> wrote in message . > news:AuidnZEC66EEzvujXTWc3g@mpowercom.net...9 > > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message 0 > > news:Q5ednUHaAJy3NvijXTWc3A@metrocast.net... [...]  > N > The irony is that our actions will only increase the desire of other nationsN > to acquire weapons of mass destruction (and the means to deliver them to us)M > as a deterrent to such unbridled aggression on our part.  So not only do we0  F Pardon me, but isn't the U.S. going there *because* Saddam is building@ weapons of mass destruction? And some extra military aircraft or> whatever were sent to somewhere near N. Korea because they areD starting to make nuclear weapons? I don't see any huge U.S. militaryB buildup threatening countries that aren't building weapons of mass8 destruction, so why should these countries develop them?   [...]0 >  > - bill   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Mar 2003 14:29:41 -0800 . From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman): Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0303061429.13ad17fc@posting.google.com>e  g JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3E678A39.4FDC5595@vl.videotron.ca>...S > Don Sykes wrote:? > > Problem 2: It will take more than Saddam dying or leaving. e  F I am not strongly for or against going to war with Iraq at this point.F nor do I strongly agree or disagree with your overall post, but I have# some comments on specific portions.   lP > The USA should have learned its lessons already that it cannot impose dramaticJ > changes. It must sow the seeds of democracy/capitalism and let them takeN > roots. They helped the Taliban push the Soviets out of Afghanistan, and look > what happened. > M > They helped the Shah of Iran bring Iran into the 20th century and look whatn? > happened. Need I go on with all the south american examples ?c  ( What about WWII? Japan, Germany, Italy.   & What about Eastern Europe and Russia?   L > Note that Ironically, Iraq was good buddies with the USA and helped do theO > dirty work that the USA wanted, notably the war against Iran. The USA and the N > rest of the world kept a blind eye to all the atrocities Iraq did because itP > was convenient to all, especially when he weakened the radicals in the fringesR > of his country, helping prevent fundamentalism spread to neighbouring countries.  B And how do you know that if the U.S. hadn't helped Iraq, that IranD would have become just as bad or even worse? You don't. It's easy toD criticize based on what happened, but you have to also consider whatB would have happened if other actions were taken or not taken. That! makes it more difficult to judge.c  P > Iraq already has some seed of democracy. The regions are getting more and moreP > autonomy with their own governments. The King may still be uncontested, but asL > long as the trend continues, it is best to just help it instead of doing aO > major upheaval. At one point, the king may become as relevant as the queen ofeL > england. He gets to continue to benefit from his castles etc, but the restP > will be done by a less dictatorial nationla government with devolution for the  > regions with greater autonomy.  8 At this pace, it'll take centuries to achieve democracy.  N > The USA may be bragging about having been in touch with plenty of oppositionN > in Iraq who would be ready to take power once Saddam is removed. HINT: these! > may just be worse than Saddam. t   Could be. Could be better, too.i  P > Look at the reforms Iran has gone through since the early radical 1980s. If itO > comes from the outside, any country will rebel. If it comes from within, thenn > it takes roots and grows.o  E It's going kind of slow. Also, the Afgahns didn't rebel when the U.S.s defeated the Taliban.J  L > Phillipines are a good example. The push to democracy to throw away MarcosN > came from within (perhaps with some subtle help from the outside, of course.J > But it required no invasion, no foreign military government to overthrow > Marcos etc etc.  >  > > His son and F > > all the rest of the Baath party have to be removed, since the onlyE > > members he has allowed to live are ones that think just like him.r > K > Iraqis should decide, not americans or anyone else.  We, as foreigners to M > Iraq, can only complain about Iraq acting outside its own borders, or usingmO > banned weapons or torture against his own people. On the other hand, the USA,7N > with the death penalty, is really in no position to argue that Saddam has no7 > right to kill what his country defines as a criminal.s  2 Iraqis can't decide as long as Saddam is in power.  P > Don't do onto others what you don't want done onto yourself. How would the USAN > have reacted if, during the 2000 slection/selection debacle, other countriesM > would not have recognised the nomination of Bush Jr as president of the USAeI > and requested the election considered failed with a new election held ?c  9 Saddam wasn't elected, unless you believe that 100% krap.U  K > I could go on and on. I have watched both USA and non-USA media and I can J > understand why do many americans are numbed and don't realise what theirO > government is really doing and how much they are lying to the american publicoO > and how much propaganda is happening in the USA. Listen to foreign news for aaN > couple of weeks and you'll see a pretty dramatic difference in facts and youB > will hear the media criticise what Bush Jr says in his speeches.  F I'm not convinced either way on whether the U.S. should go to war withC Iraq. But you have to admit that Bush is risking his presidency bigt
 time on this.t  M > HINT: Bush Jr, during the NATO discussions, claimed that the USA had a widebP > coalition of some 13 countries with only 6 opposing the USA.  But all NATO hadN > been tasked to do is to deploy DEFENSES in Turkey. It had nothing to do with3 > supporting a war on Iraq. Yet, Bush claimed such.p  0 Yes, Mr. Bush doesn't have a lot of credibility.  H > HINT: When Turkey announced support for the USA war, I saw CNN cut theN > announcement before the "If such war is sanctioneed by the UN". At least forP > the first few days, after which, I think that they realised it was very wrong,M > yet, their editors decided to cut that "IF" statement and make it look likeqV > Turkey was in full support of granting US troup access. (This was a few months ago).   I'm no fan of CNN.  M > And while the USA media may have focused on the work that the UN inspectors O > hadn,t completed by 1998, they unfortunatly never focus on the amount of workiP > that they had succesfully done prior to 1998. Note that for all its might, theO > USA intelligence had been unaware of the Iraq nuclear efforts until after the  > war when inspectors came in.  E Some argue that in favor of getting him now before he makes nukes, or  more nukes.r  P > That was one of the major arguments used by the Bush Jr admin for a preemptiveL > strike: if their intel had missed that prior to Gulf War Version 1.0, whatP > else are they missing now ? Better destroy the country now before the USA gets > a bad surprise.u > K > > Saddam can play games with the world for years, as he has already done,TJ > > by granting a inspection here, or a dismantling there. The cat & mouse6 > > will never end while his group remains in control. > K > 1-Inspectors costs are measured in millions. War is measured in Billions.sO > 2-Since the inspectors came in in 1991-1992, has Saddam used banned weapons ?e  A Yes, but without the U.S. military buildup hanging over his head,n= Saddam wouldn't let the inspectors back in. So it's more thano	 millions.   O > Until there is an internationally agreed upon process to remove one country'srO > head of state, there is no legal means to do so, and the USA would go againstcM > international law if it wanted to kill a foreign head of state or force itst" > replacement with military force.  A I think in some cases it would have been a wise thing to do, like F Germany and Japan in the late 30's. In this case, I don't really know.  M > For as much as everyone dislikes Hussein, there can be no precedent set foraP > removing a leader you don't like. If the USA removes Hussein by force, what isL > to prevent China from removing the Taiwanese government and installing one7 > that would be friendly to re-unification with China ?a  A I don't know, but I don't think they care much about precedent orn international law.  M > Bush Jr must be told that he isn't playing with plastic army toys in a sand.L > box. He is playing with reak countries, real people, real governments. And- > that he must abide by the wishes of the UN.  > O > If Bush Jr disregards a veto by the UN and attacks again, will he accept thatp2 > the UN will disregard a US veto against Israel ? > F > > That's exactly what the French ARE talking about. To protect theirH > > relationship with Iraq and appease the arabs in their own community.( > > Appeasement is their national motto. > P > And one which the USA should have adopted on september 12. If you wnat to stopO > being a target for terrorism, you work hard to become friends with arabs, notnP > raise their level of hatred against you. Europe knows this full well. They areM > not new to terrorism. Bush Jr was outclassed and is nowhere near capable ofa > handling this properly.T  D We've actually helped the Arabs and Muslims. $2 billion/yr to Egypt.= We helped the Muslims in Bosnia and such. We spoke up for the"A Chechens. We helped Arabs kick the Soviets out of Afghanistan. We F helped Kuwait and Saudi Arabia against Iraq. That's not enough? And weC get repaid for all this with 9/11 and such. Talk about ingratitude!B   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldmanc  F > This is the 21st century. War is no longer acceptable as a solution.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 17:57:37 -0500* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>: Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants2 Message-ID: <nH-dnQ7FXKL4T_qjXTWcog@metrocast.net>  D What you said is proof that when you stick to the facts and build anL argument solidly the result is worthwhile.  Factual analysis, unfortunately,D seems to be considerably less valued by those who oppose your views.  = "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in messagep) news:3E678A39.4FDC5595@vl.videotron.ca...o   ...a  L > Don't do onto others what you don't want done onto yourself. How would the USA-D > have reacted if, during the 2000 slection/selection debacle, other	 countries>I > would not have recognised the nomination of Bush Jr as president of thee USAlI > and requested the election considered failed with a new election held ?   K The hypothetical (though rather far-fetched) example I like is how we woulduF react if the Russians decided that they had the right to invade IsraelJ (without Security Council sanction) to force compliance with the multitude8 of U.N. resolutions that Israel has flouted for decades.   >sK > I could go on and on. I have watched both USA and non-USA media and I can J > understand why do many americans are numbed and don't realise what theirH > government is really doing and how much they are lying to the american public2 > and how much propaganda is happening in the USA.  G Indeed.  The networks have so consistently ignored the legal an ethicaloH problems with the Administration's approach that it's hard not to wonder@ whether they've been intimidated by its similar disregard of theF Constitution in its domestic policies.  Or perhaps, like Hearst in theJ Spanish-American War, they find war to be good for their business.  In anyI event, only very recently has network coverage started to explore (thoughoB hardly aggressively) the other side of the issue - perhaps because, controversy is also good for their business.  H The print media seem at least a bit more willing to mention alternativesB (though I wouldn't characterize them as being really even-handed).   ...   F > > That's exactly what the French ARE talking about. To protect theirH > > relationship with Iraq and appease the arabs in their own community.( > > Appeasement is their national motto. >B< > And one which the USA should have adopted on september 12.  G But don't get sucked into the error of letting that be characterized as K 'appeasement':  correcting your own past errors is an honorable and in facto courageous course of action.    If you wnat to stopK > being a target for terrorism, you work hard to become friends with arabs,  notlL > raise their level of hatred against you. Europe knows this full well. They aretJ > not new to terrorism. Bush Jr was outclassed and is nowhere near capable of > handling this properly.   H I give him more credit for intelligence than that:  I think instead he's< fully aware but believes he can bull his way through anyway.   >pF > This is the 21st century. War is no longer acceptable as a solution.  J Again, well-said.  Rather than create yet more verbiage around this issue,F in closing I'll just recycle a letter I sent today to my CongressionalJ delegation (and a similar copy to Dubya:  not that I think it'll make muchJ difference in either case, but it's one's obligation as a citizen when the> country is taking action in your name that you disagree with):    
 March 6, 2003i   Dear :  ? I'm fed up with having my intelligence insulted every time somefG Administration sock-puppet parrots its "Everybody's out of step but me"BJ defense of a war with Iraq.  Others aren't to blame for the 'divisions' inE the U.N. Security Council and around the world:  the only division iseI between us (and the few governments we've been able to convince to ignore H the desires of their own people) and the rest of the world, and the onlyL entity that will be 'marginalized' if we continue to go it alone will be our own country.  L It is only the tact of those who would still like to consider themselves ourD friends that keeps them from pointing out that the U.S. has no right@ whatsoever to define unilaterally the intent of Security CouncilK resolutions, no right whatsoever to decide unilaterally the degree to whichiH they are being complied with, and no right whatsoever to take unilateralL action based on that decision:  all those rights belong only to the SecurityK Council itself, and provide not a fig-leaf of justification for independenttL action by its members.  In the absence of U.N. approval ours will be no lessL a war of aggression than the annexation of Kuwait was a dozen years ago, andH appears to be accompanied by similar lies in attempts to rationalize it.  G Our own intelligence agencies indicate that to the best of their rather3H considerable knowledge Iraq presents no immediate threat to us or to itsL neighbors and had no hand in the 9/11/2001 (or any other) terrorist attacks.G Its abuse of its own population - including the gassing of the Kurds inyG 1988, about which we remained conspicuously silent at the time - was no J secret back when Iraq was a valued Reagan/Bush ally against Iran.  Mostly,F Iraq is an embarrassing testament to our own failure to follow throughL thoroughly in the aftermath of the Gulf War:  instead, after its forces wereK routed from Kuwait we let Iraq largely drop off our radar screen, demandinglC the mindless continuation of sanctions even after they proved to beXH counter-productive instead of buckling down and figuring out how to deal( with the remaining problems effectively.  L It's not Saddam Hussein who has made us and the international community lookH like fools, it's our own failure to provide competent leadership in thisE matter to the international organization which we (usually) dominate.nL Bush's rounding up a group of vigilantes to teach Saddam a lesson won't makeK us look any less like fools, it will just make us look like bullies as welli* who have no respect for international law.  K The newest Bush plan seems to be that we can sweep over Iraq in short order L and then largely leave it up to the rest of the world to pay for cleaning upD the mess we've left - another disturbing echo of the Gulf War and anL approach far more likely to result in repetitions of the events of 9/11/2001J than to foster world-wide support for averting them.  And it's hardly newsK that examples of unchecked aggression by the powerful lead other nations to I seek weapons to protect themselves from being the next targets - the best K and perhaps only justification for the weapons of mass destruction that our / policies are supposedly designed to discourage.t  H A major reason why we have three co-equal branches of government in thisG country is to provide checks when one of them starts to run amuck.  The G decision to wage war is very specifically vested in the Congress by ouroL Constitution, a document that seems to be considered increasingly irrelevantK by this Administration.  It's time for the Congress to step up to the platem. and do its duty, uncomfortable as that may be.   Sincerely yours,   William Todd
 Strafford, NH4   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 18:11:37 -0500* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>: Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants2 Message-ID: <WuWcneYXycEwSPqjXTWcoQ@metrocast.net>  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:4hugmDHqyuKG@eisner.encompasserve.org... : > In article <3E678A39.4FDC5595@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei) <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes:  >o > >eI > > I could go on and on. I have watched both USA and non-USA media and Ib caniL > > understand why do many americans are numbed and don't realise what theirJ > > government is really doing and how much they are lying to the american publicK > > and how much propaganda is happening in the USA. Listen to foreign newsi for atL > > couple of weeks and you'll see a pretty dramatic difference in facts and youFD > > will hear the media criticise what Bush Jr says in his speeches. > >a >o7 > You talk as if we aren't clued in.  Of course we are.e  . Coming from you, Rob, that's doubly laughable.  	   We liven@ > here, you don't.  Here is some latest poll results (as if this3 > sort of thing should be decided by a poll - NOT):  >n2 > http://www.gallup.com/poll/releases/pr030228.asp >)L > PRINCETON, NJ -- A new CNN/USA Today/Gallup Poll shows 59% of Americans inJ > favor of invading Iraq with ground troops in an attempt to remove SaddamL > Hussein from power. That level of support is unchanged from last week, and downI > slightly from the 63% found shortly after U.S. Secretary of State ColinD@ > Powell's U.N. speech arguing for military action against Iraq. >b? > To characterize us as being numbed and not realizing what ourn1 > government is doing, is silliness on your part.   K Yet another inadequate analysis of the data you yourself provided, Rob.  If H you'd bothered to read the *whole* article you cite you would have foundI that a large portion of that 59% support invading Iraq *only* if the U.N.gI approves the action:  without U.N. approval, the gung-ho crowd reduces to D 38% - and goes down even farther in the event that Iraq destroys theG missiles it has been told to (which, of course, it is in the process ofr doing).o   >r >t > > If you wnat to stop F > > being a target for terrorism, you work hard to become friends with
 arabs, notI > > raise their level of hatred against you. Europe knows this full well.m They areL > > not new to terrorism. Bush Jr was outclassed and is nowhere near capable of > > handling this properly.a > >h >0= > I disagree.  You want to stop being a target for terrorism?vC > Make sure the terrorists pay a price that excruciatingly painful.nC > They come back and do it again?  Make the pain even more painful.t" > They'll get clued in eventually.  J That, of course, is exactly the same wisdom that the terrorists themselvesH advance while blowing up those who oppress them.  And they seem far moreB willing to pay the price of that approach than we're likely to be.   >hH > > This is the 21st century. War is no longer acceptable as a solution. >h > Tell that to a Kuwaiti.e  L A legitimate response.  JF should have said that war is no longer acceptableJ save as a last resort (such as the presence of a dire and immediate threatL which must be met immediately or not at all - internal genocide being a good( example when no external threat exists).   - bill   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 18:13:22 -0500* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>: Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants2 Message-ID: <mU6dnSVte5KIS_qjXTWc3Q@metrocast.net>  6 "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> wrote in message news:3E67C237.50100@MMaz.com...e   ...e  :   That's one thing about "Lib's," always a double standardD > because their standards (if you call it that) are never based on a5 > foundation or morality and unchanging principles...e  L Y'know, colossally ignorant statements like that are why people like you get! a reputation as knuckle-draggers.i   - bill   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Mar 2003 18:09:06 -0800 . From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman): Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0303061809.3e400ade@posting.google.com>o  g JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3E678A39.4FDC5595@vl.videotron.ca>...    [... huge cut ...]  nF > This is the 21st century. War is no longer acceptable as a solution.  C Uh, could you please tell this to Al Qaeda, the Palestinians, NorthaF Korea, China, The Balkan peninsula, The Chechens, Iraq, and any others	 I missed?s  ) Why don't you tell any of them that? Huh?i   Alan E. Feldmano   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 21:47:21 -0500% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>n: Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants/ Message-ID: <v6g21qk7ogvb53@news.supernews.com>n  6 "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> wrote in message news:3E67C237.50100@MMaz.com...  >    [snip]  H > You know, if the planes had crashed into the Louvre, the Eiffel Tower,D > Munich, Moscow, there would be a lot less of this 'bleeding heart'C > crap!  The fact that for over ten years, Saddam's atrocities have H > continued, these whiners would have us wait another ten years at whichJ > point, who knows when a nuke or biological will be detonated on domestic > soil.r >uF > Look back at history, WW I and WW II, it was us Yanks that saved theH > Euro-ass from oppression and conquer.  Funny how what was good for oneI > generation, country, and time period is no longer the right thing to doeF > today, HA!  That's one thing about "Lib's," always a double standardD > because their standards (if you call it that) are never based on a5 > foundation or morality and unchanging principles...h >e  I "based on a foundation [of] morality and unchanging principles"????  WhateJ the hell are you talking about?  In the 80's Ronald Reagan sold weapons ofJ mass destruction to Saddam!  You call that "unchanging principles"??  WhenF Saddam used poison gas on his own people, Reagan virtually ignored the atrocity, you call that moral?   John Vottero   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 21:09:20 -0500* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>: Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants2 Message-ID: <a5idnRM8DszJYvqjXTWcqg@metrocast.net>  ; "Alan E. Feldman" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote in message 7 news:b096a4ee.0303061429.13ad17fc@posting.google.com...v= > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in messagen+ news:<3E678A39.4FDC5595@vl.videotron.ca>...s   ...o  I > > The USA should have learned its lessons already that it cannot impose  dramaticL > > changes. It must sow the seeds of democracy/capitalism and let them takeK > > roots. They helped the Taliban push the Soviets out of Afghanistan, and  look > > what happened. > >oJ > > They helped the Shah of Iran bring Iran into the 20th century and look whatA > > happened. Need I go on with all the south american examples ?  > ) > What about WWII? Japan, Germany, Italy.o  J It's not obvious what you think your point is:  WWII was hardly an exampleI of the kinds of attempts to impose changes on other countries that JF wasfK noting, it was a clear matter of self-defense (we didn't actually enter thef6 war until we were attacked) and defense of our allies.   >n' > What about Eastern Europe and Russia?m  % Another non-sequitur to JF's comment.m   >iJ > > Note that Ironically, Iraq was good buddies with the USA and helped do thelI > > dirty work that the USA wanted, notably the war against Iran. The USA  and the E > > rest of the world kept a blind eye to all the atrocities Iraq did 
 because itJ > > was convenient to all, especially when he weakened the radicals in the fringesnI > > of his country, helping prevent fundamentalism spread to neighbouringl
 countries. >lD > And how do you know that if the U.S. hadn't helped Iraq, that IranF > would have become just as bad or even worse? You don't. It's easy toF > criticize based on what happened, but you have to also consider whatD > would have happened if other actions were taken or not taken. That# > makes it more difficult to judge.b  @ Not really:  the third (and most ethical) option was simply lessI convenient - taking a more direct hand ourselves rather than supporting atI despicable regime just because it counter-balanced another regime that we E liked even less.  Of course, there's also the question of whether our K dislike to the Iranian regime was justified in the first place:  true, theytG had no love for us given our uncritical support of the Shah, but largeriK fences have been mended when we made the effort (and the fact that the same K regime has slowly become less hostile anyway suggests that with some effortf& faster progress could have been made).  L The bottom line is that when you lie down with dogs, you wake up with fleas:F it's better to take the higher, if more difficult, road to begin with.   >oI > > Iraq already has some seed of democracy. The regions are getting morey and moreK > > autonomy with their own governments. The King may still be uncontested,  but asL > > long as the trend continues, it is best to just help it instead of doing a H > > major upheaval. At one point, the king may become as relevant as the queen ofI > > england. He gets to continue to benefit from his castles etc, but thef restJ > > will be done by a less dictatorial nationla government with devolution for theS" > > regions with greater autonomy. >s: > At this pace, it'll take centuries to achieve democracy.  B If it does, that's their business, not ours - though fostering theH development of democracy through peaceful and ethical means is certainly acceptable.n   > E > > The USA may be bragging about having been in touch with plenty ofn
 oppositionJ > > in Iraq who would be ready to take power once Saddam is removed. HINT: theset" > > may just be worse than Saddam. >e! > Could be. Could be better, too.t  K Not our business in either case:  any such concerns are the province of thed. U.N., if it decides they need to be addressed.   >lL > > Look at the reforms Iran has gone through since the early radical 1980s. If itmL > > comes from the outside, any country will rebel. If it comes from within, then > > it takes roots and grows.l >  > It's going kind of slow.  F Again, none of our business, save for providing etihcal encouragement.  -  Also, the Afgahns didn't rebel when the U.S.f > defeated the Taliban.t  J Nor did they solidify into a nation.  And the tentative government that weL installed is now criticizing us for not following through on our promises ofJ continued involvement for the second time:  just as we dropped AfghanistanJ like a hot potato after helping what later became the Taliban kick out theF Soviets, we're 'way shy of the kind of support we promised the currentL government, and they're specifically suggesting that if we do the same thingL in Iraq (as Bush now seems to be suggesting in response to queries about how: much all this will cost) there'll be major problems there.   ...e  J > > Iraqis should decide, not americans or anyone else.  We, as foreigners toI > > Iraq, can only complain about Iraq acting outside its own borders, or  using.L > > banned weapons or torture against his own people. On the other hand, the USA,I > > with the death penalty, is really in no position to argue that Saddams has no9 > > right to kill what his country defines as a criminal.  >f4 > Iraqis can't decide as long as Saddam is in power.  I Yet again, the U.N. is the sole body responsible for deciding whether anyo+ intervention to change this is appropriate.    >0J > > Don't do onto others what you don't want done onto yourself. How would the USA:F > > have reacted if, during the 2000 slection/selection debacle, other	 countriesmK > > would not have recognised the nomination of Bush Jr as president of the  USA K > > and requested the election considered failed with a new election held ?  > ; > Saddam wasn't elected, unless you believe that 100% krap.s  I Leaving aside the question of whether Dubya was in fact elected, the facteL remains that who runs Iraq is *none of our business* (any more than who runs: the U.S. is anyone else's business, which was JF's point).   ...   H > I'm not convinced either way on whether the U.S. should go to war withE > Iraq. But you have to admit that Bush is risking his presidency bige > time on this.   I I don't think so:  rather, I suspect that the expanded 'war on terrorism'	D that seems to include anyone we don't like is the sole aspect of hisJ Administration that he believes may get him reelected.  If he can bull hisL way through this, regardless of the price America pays economically, in lossI of external friends, or in increased danger of terrorism, he may just getiJ the 'Murcan public to think he's a real leader; had he simply done what heG originally (and correctly) set out to ("Hunt down those responsible andyK bring them to justice"), he'd have had to justify his reelection on - what?a   ...o  D > > And while the USA media may have focused on the work that the UN
 inspectorsL > > hadn,t completed by 1998, they unfortunatly never focus on the amount of workG > > that they had succesfully done prior to 1998. Note that for all itse
 might, theG > > USA intelligence had been unaware of the Iraq nuclear efforts untill	 after they  > > war when inspectors came in. > G > Some argue that in favor of getting him now before he makes nukes, ore
 > more nukes.>  F That argument ignores the increasing evidence that he has no remainingG active nuclear program whatsoever - something which the inspectors feelyH they'll be in a position to state with reasonable certainty before long,A even if the issues of chemical and biological weapons may be less  immediately verifiable.l   ...s  C > > 1-Inspectors costs are measured in millions. War is measured ine	 Billions.iG > > 2-Since the inspectors came in in 1991-1992, has Saddam used banned 	 weapons ?  >iC > Yes, but without the U.S. military buildup hanging over his head, ? > Saddam wouldn't let the inspectors back in. So it's more thanr > millions.   I That's almost certainly true:  the pressure is appropriate, it's only thebL fact that it was applied outside the auspices of the Security Council (whichE thus constituted intimidation by a rogue state, however desirable its J effect) which is not.  The *right* way to go about this would have been toL gather up Security Council support and *then* apply the pressure rather thanJ announce to the world that we were going to whether they approved of it or not.  J Dubya's father proved more than capable of gathering up such consensus for. support in 1991.  But Dubya is not his father.   > G > > Until there is an internationally agreed upon process to remove oneo	 country'stI > > head of state, there is no legal means to do so, and the USA would gog againstiK > > international law if it wanted to kill a foreign head of state or forcet its $ > > replacement with military force. >yC > I think in some cases it would have been a wise thing to do, like-% > Germany and Japan in the late 30's.   J The more suitable course of action would have been to move against GermanyK when it annexed Austria (though my history is a bit rusty and there *might*tK have been sufficient support in the Austrian population to give that actionsF some legitimacy).  Or at the latest when it gobbled up the SudetenlandK (which was as blatant an invasion as that of Kuwait).  Similar observations F apply to Japan's pre-WWII activities in China (and perhaps elsewhere -J again, my knowledge of history isn't what it might be).  There were plentyG of opportunities to curb the Axis using accepted norms of internationalsI response (rather than, e.g., assassination) before the invasion of PolandtH finally precipitated a declaration of war (though even that didn't causeL *actual* war to break out:  it took the invasion of France and its neighbors to do that, IIRC).  L That's what makes comparing the present treatment of Iraq to the appeasementE of the 1930s so ludicrous.  Anyone with even a smidgeon of historicalUE knowledge understands that the two situations have nothing in common:sJ instead of appeasing Iraq, we acted decisively to reverse its actions, andE all the discussion now centers on how to deal with the details of the-
 aftermath.  #  In this case, I don't really know.  >mK > > For as much as everyone dislikes Hussein, there can be no precedent sett for J > > removing a leader you don't like. If the USA removes Hussein by force, what is J > > to prevent China from removing the Taiwanese government and installing one99 > > that would be friendly to re-unification with China ?I >iC > I don't know, but I don't think they care much about precedent or  > international law.  K Is that just a guess, or do you consider it an informed opinion?  While thelK PRC jealously defends its prerogative to handle internal matters as it seesdG fit, in the international sphere it has been at least a relatively goode4 citizen compared with its actions before, say, 1972.   ...   J > > And one which the USA should have adopted on september 12. If you wnat to stop F > > being a target for terrorism, you work hard to become friends with
 arabs, notI > > raise their level of hatred against you. Europe knows this full well.e They areL > > not new to terrorism. Bush Jr was outclassed and is nowhere near capable of > > handling this properly.q >s. > We've actually helped the Arabs and Muslims.  I The perception seems to be that our *net* effect has been negative, and I  tend to agree with it.   > $2 billion/yr to Egypt.o  H Still, or only while the Soviet Union was still around?  Of course, on aD per-capita basis it doesn't begin to compare with our aid to Israel.  + > We helped the Muslims in Bosnia and such.   K Indeed we did, and got a reasonable amount of credit for it from the Muslime world.    We spoke up for the > Chechens.   F While the sentiment was doubtless appreciated, results are what count.  6 > We helped Arabs kick the Soviets out of Afghanistan.  E And then left the survivors to pick up the pieces as best they could,hK clearly demonstrating that our actions were strategic rather than performedw" out of the goodness of our hearts.    Wel. > helped Kuwait and Saudi Arabia against Iraq.  I Yup.  And got at least some credit for that, though once again one has tooH suspect that our motives were influenced at least as much by oil and theE stability of the region in which it's found than by altruism (and thebH continuing presence of our troops near the holy cities helped cancel out some of the goodwill).   > That's not enough?  I No, it's not.  Not after decades of supporting regimes that oppress theiruD citizenry (because doing so suits our own interests) and propping upG Israel's occupation and, worse, settlement activities for three decades 0 despite the condemnation of the world community.    And we - > get repaid for all this with 9/11 and such.   L That's exactly how we get repaid.  And our current approach to Iraq makes it+ appear that we're seeking more of the same.r   - bill   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 22:04:10 -0500* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>: Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants2 Message-ID: <k5KcnfgRYbyzkfWjXTWcqg@metrocast.net>  ; "Alan E. Feldman" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote in messageo7 news:b096a4ee.0303061403.45c247f2@posting.google.com...e7 > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messagea. news:<6KSdnb2u-5FD6vujXTWcpg@metrocast.net>...9 > > "Jack Peacock" <peacock@simconv.com> wrote in messagei0 > > news:AuidnZEC66EEzvujXTWc3g@mpowercom.net...; > > > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messagem2 > > > news:Q5ednUHaAJy3NvijXTWc3A@metrocast.net... > [...]  > >dH > > The irony is that our actions will only increase the desire of other nationseL > > to acquire weapons of mass destruction (and the means to deliver them to us)lL > > as a deterrent to such unbridled aggression on our part.  So not only do we >sH > Pardon me, but isn't the U.S. going there *because* Saddam is building > weapons of mass destruction?  L 1.  You miss the distinction between the U.S. going there and the U.N. goingJ there.  The latter is a distinctly less belligerent body than we are these6 days, and thus far less likely to engender such fears.  J 2.  You also seem to have accepted without question the 'fact' that SaddamH is building such weapons.  In the case of nuclear weapons the inspectorsL appear fairly confident that this is not the case, and AFAIK there's no realI evidence that he's *building* more chemical or biological weapons either,pJ mostly the strong suspicion that there may be left-overs not yet destroyed (though a lot were).  $  And some extra military aircraft or@ > whatever were sent to somewhere near N. Korea because they areF > starting to make nuclear weapons? I don't see any huge U.S. militaryD > buildup threatening countries that aren't building weapons of mass: > destruction, so why should these countries develop them?  L For starters, because of the hodge-podge of additional 'justifications' thatF Dubya has advanced for invading Iraq.  Any country that feels we mightH consider it to be oppressing its people, any country that feels we mightG suspect it of not liking us (and hence aiding terrorists who might move.F against us), even any country that is not a democracy (since we've nowE stated a goal of introducing democrary to the Middle East - by war if I necessary, since that's another supposed 'justification' for it) has good  reason to feel threatened.  I If you saw Nightline last night, you got a chilling view of where Dubya's L Imperial America thinks it is heading.  We know what's best for your countryJ and the world and will do whatever we think is necessary to make it happenG (all of course from the best of motives), because we're America and you ! can't do a damn thing to stop us.r   - bill   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 18:56:22 -0800$ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>: Subject: RE: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants0 Message-ID: <01C2E412.2C602D40@sulfer.icius.com>  * From: John Vottero [mailto:John@mvpsi.com]7 <"Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> wrote in messaget  >news:3E67C237.50100@MMaz.com... >> >[snip]hI >> You know, if the planes had crashed into the Louvre, the Eiffel Tower,tE >> Munich, Moscow, there would be a lot less of this 'bleeding heart'rD >> crap!  The fact that for over ten years, Saddam's atrocities haveI >> continued, these whiners would have us wait another ten years at which K >> point, who knows when a nuke or biological will be detonated on domestici >> soil. >>G >> Look back at history, WW I and WW II, it was us Yanks that saved the I >> Euro-ass from oppression and conquer.  Funny how what was good for onenJ >> generation, country, and time period is no longer the right thing to doG >> today, HA!  That's one thing about "Lib's," always a double standardcE >> because their standards (if you call it that) are never based on ae6 >> foundation or morality and unchanging principles... >>J >"based on a foundation [of] morality and unchanging principles"????  WhatK >the hell are you talking about?  In the 80's Ronald Reagan sold weapons of K >mass destruction to Saddam!  You call that "unchanging principles"??  WhenvG >Saddam used poison gas on his own people, Reagan virtually ignored thet >atrocity, you call that moral?  >o
 >John Votteroe  D Someone acting immorally in past years doesn't absolve his successorC from the responsibility to act morally now. If anything, it makes a " moral decision now more important.  E Also, to make some observations about Barry's post: Don't forget thatuH pretty much every country has been victim to terrorism. Some with higherE body counts than America, albeit from repeated smaller attacks rather G than one big one. See any smoking nuclear craters? Didn't think so. AndwH of course World War 1 and 2 were not started by America. Whole differentG ball game. I'll exercise restraint on the rest of that paragraph. Don'tN- want to start another front in the flame war.   C I'm staying out of the "should there be a war now" subject, though.a   Shanen   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 02:33:52 GMTp# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>.: Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease TyrantsH Message-ID: <kyT9a.61073$em1.29195@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messaged, news:nH-dnQ7FXKL4T_qjXTWcog@metrocast.net...F > What you said is proof that when you stick to the facts and build an? > argument solidly the result is worthwhile.  Factual analysis,  unfortunately,F > seems to be considerably less valued by those who oppose your views. >g? > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in messageh+ > news:3E678A39.4FDC5595@vl.videotron.ca...s >t > ...h >sD > > Don't do onto others what you don't want done onto yourself. How	 would the  > USAaF > > have reacted if, during the 2000 slection/selection debacle, other > countriesnD > > would not have recognised the nomination of Bush Jr as president of the > USA.D > > and requested the election considered failed with a new election held ? > D > The hypothetical (though rather far-fetched) example I like is how we wouldA > react if the Russians decided that they had the right to invade> IsraelB > (without Security Council sanction) to force compliance with the	 multituded: > of U.N. resolutions that Israel has flouted for decades. >  > > C > > I could go on and on. I have watched both USA and non-USA media 	 and I caneF > > understand why do many americans are numbed and don't realise what theirtA > > government is really doing and how much they are lying to then american > public4 > > and how much propaganda is happening in the USA. >tA > Indeed.  The networks have so consistently ignored the legal ane ethicaliC > problems with the Administration's approach that it's hard not toc wonderB > whether they've been intimidated by its similar disregard of theD > Constitution in its domestic policies.  Or perhaps, like Hearst in thenD > Spanish-American War, they find war to be good for their business. In anyC > event, only very recently has network coverage started to explore  (thougheD > hardly aggressively) the other side of the issue - perhaps because. > controversy is also good for their business. >a= > The print media seem at least a bit more willing to mentionr alternativesD > (though I wouldn't characterize them as being really even-handed). >n > ...u >pB > > > That's exactly what the French ARE talking about. To protect theire? > > > relationship with Iraq and appease the arabs in their owni
 community.* > > > Appeasement is their national motto. > >e> > > And one which the USA should have adopted on september 12. > F > But don't get sucked into the error of letting that be characterized asE > 'appeasement':  correcting your own past errors is an honorable andc in fact  > courageous course of action. >  >  If you wnat to stopF > > being a target for terrorism, you work hard to become friends with arabs, > notrC > > raise their level of hatred against you. Europe knows this fullt
 well. They > aretD > > not new to terrorism. Bush Jr was outclassed and is nowhere near capable  > of > > handling this properly.t >iE > I give him more credit for intelligence than that:  I think insteada he's> > fully aware but believes he can bull his way through anyway. >B > >n> > > This is the 21st century. War is no longer acceptable as a	 solution.u >dE > Again, well-said.  Rather than create yet more verbiage around thiso issue,: > in closing I'll just recycle a letter I sent today to my
 CongressionaltB > delegation (and a similar copy to Dubya:  not that I think it'll	 make muchbC > difference in either case, but it's one's obligation as a citizens when the@ > country is taking action in your name that you disagree with): >  >  > March 6, 2003  >h > Dear : >bA > I'm fed up with having my intelligence insulted every time sometE > Administration sock-puppet parrots its "Everybody's out of step but  me"u= > defense of a war with Iraq.  Others aren't to blame for thea 'divisions' inD > the U.N. Security Council and around the world:  the only division isD > between us (and the few governments we've been able to convince to ignoreE > the desires of their own people) and the rest of the world, and theh onlyB > entity that will be 'marginalized' if we continue to go it alone will be ouri > own country. >n? > It is only the tact of those who would still like to considera themselves ourF > friends that keeps them from pointing out that the U.S. has no rightB > whatsoever to define unilaterally the intent of Security CouncilD > resolutions, no right whatsoever to decide unilaterally the degree to which? > they are being complied with, and no right whatsoever to takei
 unilateralE > action based on that decision:  all those rights belong only to ther SecurityA > Council itself, and provide not a fig-leaf of justification for  independentiF > action by its members.  In the absence of U.N. approval ours will be no lesstE > a war of aggression than the annexation of Kuwait was a dozen yearso ago, andF > appears to be accompanied by similar lies in attempts to rationalize it.  >iB > Our own intelligence agencies indicate that to the best of their ratherF > considerable knowledge Iraq presents no immediate threat to us or to itshE > neighbors and had no hand in the 9/11/2001 (or any other) terrorists attacks.F > Its abuse of its own population - including the gassing of the Kurds inF > 1988, about which we remained conspicuously silent at the time - was noC > secret back when Iraq was a valued Reagan/Bush ally against Iran.n Mostly,x@ > Iraq is an embarrassing testament to our own failure to follow throughmB > thoroughly in the aftermath of the Gulf War:  instead, after its forces wereeC > routed from Kuwait we let Iraq largely drop off our radar screen,n	 demandingiE > the mindless continuation of sanctions even after they proved to be(E > counter-productive instead of buckling down and figuring out how tol deal* > with the remaining problems effectively. > ? > It's not Saddam Hussein who has made us and the internationalc community lookE > like fools, it's our own failure to provide competent leadership inn this= > matter to the international organization which we (usually)f	 dominate.tC > Bush's rounding up a group of vigilantes to teach Saddam a lessone
 won't makeE > us look any less like fools, it will just make us look like bulliess as welle, > who have no respect for international law. >iA > The newest Bush plan seems to be that we can sweep over Iraq ini short order B > and then largely leave it up to the rest of the world to pay for cleaning upmF > the mess we've left - another disturbing echo of the Gulf War and anD > approach far more likely to result in repetitions of the events of	 9/11/2001e@ > than to foster world-wide support for averting them.  And it's hardly newseB > that examples of unchecked aggression by the powerful lead other
 nations toF > seek weapons to protect themselves from being the next targets - the bestD > and perhaps only justification for the weapons of mass destruction that our1 > policies are supposedly designed to discourage.s >'E > A major reason why we have three co-equal branches of government inm thisD > country is to provide checks when one of them starts to run amuck. TherE > decision to wage war is very specifically vested in the Congress by  ourcC > Constitution, a document that seems to be considered increasinglys
 irrelevantC > by this Administration.  It's time for the Congress to step up toj	 the platen0 > and do its duty, uncomfortable as that may be. >i > Sincerely yours, >n > William Todd > Strafford, NHs    
 Well said.  F There are some smaller percentage of the populace that will oppose warD under any circumstance, but by and large the majority will be of the opinion:  * War if necessary, but not necessarily war.  E And the majority of world opinion, and dare I say US opinion, is thaty: war is not called for, nor is it justifiable at this time.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 21:44:11 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>-: Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants' Message-ID: <3E68158B.6A890659@fsi.net>e   John Vottero wrote:  > 8 > "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> wrote in message! > news:3E67C237.50100@MMaz.com...b > >g >  > [snip] > J > > You know, if the planes had crashed into the Louvre, the Eiffel Tower,F > > Munich, Moscow, there would be a lot less of this 'bleeding heart'E > > crap!  The fact that for over ten years, Saddam's atrocities have J > > continued, these whiners would have us wait another ten years at whichL > > point, who knows when a nuke or biological will be detonated on domestic	 > > soil.d > >mH > > Look back at history, WW I and WW II, it was us Yanks that saved theJ > > Euro-ass from oppression and conquer.  Funny how what was good for oneK > > generation, country, and time period is no longer the right thing to do H > > today, HA!  That's one thing about "Lib's," always a double standardF > > because their standards (if you call it that) are never based on a7 > > foundation or morality and unchanging principles...' > >e > K > "based on a foundation [of] morality and unchanging principles"????  WhataL > the hell are you talking about?  In the 80's Ronald Reagan sold weapons ofL > mass destruction to Saddam!  You call that "unchanging principles"??  WhenH > Saddam used poison gas on his own people, Reagan virtually ignored the  > atrocity, you call that moral?  A Reagan was nothing more than the White House's version of Charlie F McCarthy (or Pinoccio): a puppet who danced as his handlers pulled the strings.   -- r David J. Dachteraa dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/n   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 20:18:14 -0800o" From: GreyCloud <cumulus@mist.com>: Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants( Message-ID: <3E681D86.C94C1903@mist.com>   "David J. Dachtera" wrote: >  > John Vottero wrote:u > >.: > > "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> wrote in message# > > news:3E67C237.50100@MMaz.com...  > > >s > > 
 > > [snip] > >eL > > > You know, if the planes had crashed into the Louvre, the Eiffel Tower,H > > > Munich, Moscow, there would be a lot less of this 'bleeding heart'G > > > crap!  The fact that for over ten years, Saddam's atrocities have L > > > continued, these whiners would have us wait another ten years at whichN > > > point, who knows when a nuke or biological will be detonated on domestic > > > soil.  > > >eJ > > > Look back at history, WW I and WW II, it was us Yanks that saved theL > > > Euro-ass from oppression and conquer.  Funny how what was good for oneM > > > generation, country, and time period is no longer the right thing to dotJ > > > today, HA!  That's one thing about "Lib's," always a double standardH > > > because their standards (if you call it that) are never based on a9 > > > foundation or morality and unchanging principles...b > > >h > > M > > "based on a foundation [of] morality and unchanging principles"????  WhatlN > > the hell are you talking about?  In the 80's Ronald Reagan sold weapons ofN > > mass destruction to Saddam!  You call that "unchanging principles"??  WhenJ > > Saddam used poison gas on his own people, Reagan virtually ignored the" > > atrocity, you call that moral? > C > Reagan was nothing more than the White House's version of CharlieaH > McCarthy (or Pinoccio): a puppet who danced as his handlers pulled the
 > strings. >     I wonder who his handlers were??4 But it does bring up a few questions, like why now??  8 It makes one wonder what the real story is.  I doubt the newsmedia version.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 20:36:24 -0800a" From: GreyCloud <cumulus@mist.com>: Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants( Message-ID: <3E6821C8.ED78D4B7@mist.com>   JF Mezei wrote:o >  <snip>   > P > And one which the USA should have adopted on september 12. If you wnat to stopO > being a target for terrorism, you work hard to become friends with arabs, not P > raise their level of hatred against you. Europe knows this full well. They areM > not new to terrorism. Bush Jr was outclassed and is nowhere near capable ofg > handling this properly.e > F > This is the 21st century. War is no longer acceptable as a solution.  G http://times.hankooki.com/lpage/nation/200303/kt2003030417272311970.htmn  : I found this one that should be addressed.  Odd thing that' the newsmedia kept very quiet about it.t' North Korean warhead found in Alaska.  h  ( Anybody have anymore info on this one???   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 00:14:22 GMT-# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>h7 Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Stop the WarmH Message-ID: <yvR9a.60329$em1.19361@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  @ "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in5 message news:oBEVoU1GDarG@eisner.encompasserve.org...0= > In article <3E669B69.9040000@MMaz.com>, "Barry Treahy, Jr."r <Treahy@MMaz.com> writes:E > > F > > This is certainly not the place to be posting political 'opinions' thatC > > are, IMHO, totally lame and typically liberal (ie. no back bone  except7 > > when its ok for Clinton to bomb aspirin factories!)t >iF >    You would like to see only those 'opinions' which are totaly lame andc >    typically conservative? >s >    No.    B He may want to see more actions like the mall owner in this story:F http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=564&ncid=716&e=15&u=/# nm/20030306/ts_nm/iraq_usa_shirt_dch   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 00:15:33 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>i% Subject: Re: Recent posts I have madeaH Message-ID: <FwR9a.60342$em1.29923@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  8 "Steve Lionel" <Steve.Lionel@intel.com> wrote in message2 news:gdne6voorlt5pkg543k63ul7rrsu4qqo1k@4ax.com...@ > On 5 Mar 2003 07:16:29 -0800, susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue > Skonetski) wrote:i >pD > >Just a reminder that the information that I am posting on cov may notn) > >have been circulated to all of hp yet.  >n > Well, they have now! :-)    3 You mean that all of HP reads comp.os.vms????  Wow!r  4 So now that we have carly's undivided attention.....   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Mar 2003 13:31:55 -0600z From: briggs@encompasserve.org4 Subject: Re: restoring a file from a backup (newbie)3 Message-ID: <cnooWErcKHcM@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  e In article <5.1.0.14.2.20030306133351.070a7988@pop.rcn.com>, Ken Robinson <kenrbnsn1@rcn.com> writes:o( > At 01:04 PM 3/6/2003 +0000, you wrote: >   >>the backup script does this...? >>  BACKUP/IMAGE/noassist/LABEL="''LABEL'"/REWIND/BLOCK=32768 -oL >>         /RECORD/IGNORE=(NOBACKUP,INTERLOCK)/FAST DKA0: MKA500:BACKUP.BCK  >> /SAVE >> >>N >>how do I get a specifi file back (eg SYS$SPECIFIC:[UCX_LPD]UCX$PRINTCAP.DAT) > N > $back/rew/sel=(sys$specific:[ucx_lpd]ucx$printcap.dat) mka500:backup.bac/sav                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^aJ That won't work.  You can't put device names into /SELECT= specifications.H You can only put directory names, file names, extensions and versions in there.  @ BACKUP doesn't save device names or logical names with the files> in the save set.  What ends up on tape for ucx$printcap.dat is something like:   # 	[SYS3.UCX_LPD]UCX$PRINTCAP.DAT;149   9 So what you need to put in the /SELECT= is something likee  1 	UCX$PRINTCAP.DAT   ([*...] and ;* are defaulted)l5  or	[SYS3.UCX_LPD]UCX$PRINTCAP.DAT  (;* is defaulted)hN  or     [SYS3.UCX_LPD]UCX$PRINTCAP.DAT;149  (leaving almost nothing to chance)    F The lack of device names in save sets is one very good reason to avoid2 trying to back up more than one disk per save set.  C    $ BACKUP DISK1:[*...],DISK2:[*...],DISK3:[*...] MKA0:saveset.bck   / can be a nightmare to selectively restore from.n   	John Briggs   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 18:47:09 GMT 3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond)n Subject: Re: RMS version numbere. Message-ID: <NIM9a.44$Y46.39@news.cpqcorp.net>  J In article <b47d1r$cjb$1@ns2.cwgsy.net>, "John" <john@dateline.gg> writes:K >Can anybody tell me how to get the version number of a newly created file?c  B I would expect the version number of a newly created file to be 1.  D I would also expect that I do not understand the real question here. Please provde more detail.   --  J       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Mar 2003 20:36:18 -0600t; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)t Subject: Re: RMS version numberp3 Message-ID: <kyf7WRlSex1w@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  J In article <b47d1r$cjb$1@ns2.cwgsy.net>, "John" <john@dateline.gg> writes:L > Can anybody tell me how to get the version number of a newly created file?      Yes.o   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Mar 2003 20:37:49 -0600t; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: RMS version numbert3 Message-ID: <P7w+c$lcwrFc@eisner.encompasserve.org>   J In article <b47omb$7cu$1@ns2.cwgsy.net>, "John" <john@dateline.gg> writes: > G > I am inside a BASIC program and have just opened a file for writing.    G    It's been a while since I did BASIC.  Does it have the equivalent of ;    Fortran's INQUIRE statement which fetches info on files?    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 21:25:57 -0600h1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>e Subject: Re: RMS version numberh' Message-ID: <3E681145.C2819286@fsi.net>    John wrote:  > , > "John" <john@dateline.gg> wrote in message$ > news:b47d1r$cjb$1@ns2.cwgsy.net...N > > Can anybody tell me how to get the version number of a newly created file? > >  > M > Sorry, I was too brief in the original question - high pressure moment made  > me forget myself.s > N > I am inside a BASIC program and have just opened a file for writing.  I wantL > to know what version of the file I have just created, as there may alreadyL > be versions in existence, and other versions may follow later; yet I stillK > want to be able to refer back to this particular one.  In the past I haveiL > only ever had to refer back to the latest version, but a change in the way+ > we do things has necessitated the change.e > L > My alternative would be to abandon the existing file naming convention andK > replace it with something more sensible - but there are many years of theoK > existing structure in place, and "not starting from here" isn't really ant? > easy option.  (But is starting to look more attractive......)p  H Long-standing pet peeve of mine since my BASIC Plus-2 days (1981) to theC present: the complete filespec of a file open on a BASIC channel isp2 available to the RTL but not to the user program.   H The FSP$ built-in allegedly once returned this info., but the how-to wasC never easily divined by reading the doc. I understand even that has B since been deprecated. Not sure why - seems a giant leap backward.   -- s David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemsu http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/p   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Mar 2003 14:17:32 -0800l$ From: john_20_28_2000@yahoo.com (jm)4 Subject: Re: Samba params.c missing question OpenVMS= Message-ID: <c67e4bdd.0303061417.3d7587c8@posting.google.com>i  i john_20_28_2000@yahoo.com (jm) wrote in message news:<c67e4bdd.0303050714.73994640@posting.google.com>...eE > I can eventually connect to my Samba box (sometimes), but sometimesa' > shares are listed and others are not.: > " > This message appears in the log: >  > [2003/03/05 09:28:08, 0]9 > DISK$SWAP:[JYC.SAMBA.SAMBA-2_2_7A.SOURCE.PARAM]PARAMS.Co
 > ;2:(544)C >   params.c:OpenConfFile() - Unable to open configuration file "":a >         error 0c > @ > I am running OpenVMS 7.2-1 tcpip 5 (I think) and samba 2.2.7a. > D > I have the params.c file in the source.vms directory, but I am not: > sure what do.  I have no disk$swap logical on my system. >  > Thank you.  
 Any ideas?   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 02:56:20 GMT'- From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>s4 Subject: Re: Samba params.c missing question OpenVMS< Message-ID: <oTT9a.5188$J51.1077895@news1.news.adelphia.net>  	 jm wrote:o2 > john_20_28_2000@yahoo.com (jm) wrote in message ; > news:<c67e4bdd.0303050714.73994640@posting.google.com>...e > E >>I can eventually connect to my Samba box (sometimes), but sometimesh' >>shares are listed and others are not.e >>" >>This message appears in the log: >> >>[2003/03/05 09:28:08, 0]9 >>DISK$SWAP:[JYC.SAMBA.SAMBA-2_2_7A.SOURCE.PARAM]PARAMS.C 
 >>;2:(544)C >>  params.c:OpenConfFile() - Unable to open configuration file "":y >>        error 0t >>@ >>I am running OpenVMS 7.2-1 tcpip 5 (I think) and samba 2.2.7a. >>D >>I have the params.c file in the source.vms directory, but I am not: >>sure what do.  I have no disk$swap logical on my system. >>  I The filename path is from the system where the code was compiled, and if nH it were compiled and linked in debug, the default location the debugger  would look for the source.  B The configuration file should be in SAMBA_ROOT:[LIB]SMB.CONF.  As C sometimes the SMBD process runs in impersonating a user's security n9 context, the file and directory should be world readable.e  B The TESTPARM program should be able to diagnose problems with the  SMB.CONF file.  E The author of the 2.2.7 port is active on the SAMBA-VMS(AT)SAMBA.ORG h
 mailing list.o  9 To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visiti* 	http://lists.samba.org/listinfo/samba-vms   -Johne wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Mar 2003 21:37 CDT' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)o4 Subject: Re: Samba params.c missing question OpenVMS, Message-ID: <6MAR200321375504@gerg.tamu.edu>  ( john_20_28_2000@yahoo.com (jm) writes...D }I can eventually connect to my Samba box (sometimes), but sometimes& }shares are listed and others are not. } ! }This message appears in the log:  }  }[2003/03/05 09:28:08, 0]e8 }DISK$SWAP:[JYC.SAMBA.SAMBA-2_2_7A.SOURCE.PARAM]PARAMS.C	 };2:(544)dB }  params.c:OpenConfFile() - Unable to open configuration file "": }        error 0 } ? }I am running OpenVMS 7.2-1 tcpip 5 (I think) and samba 2.2.7a.o } C }I have the params.c file in the source.vms directory, but I am notw9 }sure what do.  I have no disk$swap logical on my system.y }  }Thank you.   F The location of the file givenin the message is just where it was whenH compiled - so you are evidently using the "pre-compiled" version, ratherD than one you built all the way from the source yourself. (I built myB copy from source so my messages all give the actual location of my source files.)  7 The relevant section of code in params.c looks like so:  [...]eG    *  Input:  FileName  - The pathname of the config file to be opened.     *B    *  Output: A pointer of type (char **) to the lines of the file    *M    * ------------------------------------------------------------------------n **    */i   {o+   char *func = "params.c:OpenConfFile() -";t   extern BOOL in_client;   int lvl = in_client?1:0;   myFILE *ret;  '   ret = (myFILE *)malloc(sizeof(*ret));t   if (!ret) return NULL;  -   ret->buf = file_load(FileName, &ret->size);s   if( NULL == ret->buf )     {a     DEBUG( lvl,J>       ("%s Unable to open configuration file \"%s\":\n\t%s\n",)       func, FileName, strerror(errno)) );m     SAFE_FREE(ret);      return NULL;     }t [...]t  H So what it is complaining about is that it can't open the file named "",2 i.e. it is trying to open a file that has no name.   Why does it do this?  E Beats me. There isn't even enough information given to determine what H passed the null file specification to this routine, let alone figure out exactly what is happening.  D It does seem a tad odd that errno is apparently 0 - a file not foundB situation should result in ENOENT (which is 2), or alternatively aE bad parameter (like no file name where there is supposed to be a filegH name) should result in EINVAL (22), but I havn't looked at the load_file< routine to see what, if anything, it does in terms of errno.  I Before worrying about the source, I'd check to make sure all the requirediI logical names are defined correctly and make sure that nothing the server 7 might run changes any of them (like, say, sylogin.com).t   Not much help, really.   --- Carl   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Mar 2003 14:24:49 -0800r1 From: dseagrav@lunar-tokyo.net (Daniel Seagraves)'Y Subject: Re: SIMH 2.10-4 released: major bug fixes to PDP-8, PDP-11, VAX, PDP-15, Interdaa= Message-ID: <667a2609.0303061424.30dae301@posting.google.com>l  B If I try to run RSX20F under the pdp11 simulator, it segfaults. NoB debugging at the moment because I'm busy, just passing this along.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 19:23:22 +0100, From: Steve O'Hara-Smith <steveo@eircom.net> Subject: Re: unixe7 Message-ID: <20030306192322.7342a7ab.steveo@eircom.net>r  ! On Thu, 6 Mar 2003 17:05:56 -0000dE "Rupert Pigott" <roo@dark-try-removing-this-boong.demon.co.uk> wrote:   > RP> > Oddly the VAX & IA-64 may have a lot in common, although   	They both suck ?)
 <duck run>  # RP> Eeek ! I should qualify that...r RP> @ RP> + VAX was "the future" and signalled the end of the line for. RP> a fondly remembered architecture, the -10.  ? 	Hmm - It's a scary thought that the PC and/or x86 architectureo# might one day induce fond memories.n   --  D C:>WIN                                      |     Directable MirrorsJ The computer obeys and wins.                |A Better Way To Focus The SunH You lose and Bill collects.                 |  licenses available - see:F                                             |   http://www.sohara.org/   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 17:09:39 -0500b* From: "J. Clarke" <jclarke@nospam.invalid> Subject: Re: unixv: Message-ID: <pan.2003.03.06.22.09.37.63893@nospam.invalid>  8 On Thu, 06 Mar 2003 17:05:56 +0000, Rupert Pigott wrote:  I > "Rupert Pigott" <roo@dark-try-removing-this-boong.demon.co.uk> wrote in 6 > message news:1046960197.849918@saucer.planet.gong...' >> <jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote in messageo( > news:b47cee$ahj$10@bob.news.rcn.net... >>	 >> [SNIP]c >>F >> > I wouldn't bet ;-).  If the IA64 is going to MACRO, it's the best >> > news I've heard.g >>; >> Oddly the VAX & IA-64 may have a lot in common, althougho > ! > Eeek ! I should qualify that...o > > > + VAX was "the future" and signalled the end of the line for, > a fondly remembered architecture, the -10.> > + They are both single-sourced architectures (ie : you won't? > get AMD making IA-64 clones because Intel wouldn't let them).d  I It remains to be seen whether IA-64 will have any impact on the industry,9F considering how bad the first shot at it was, and that AMD is going toJ have products on the market that have most of the advantages of IA-64 withJ none of the weaknesses before the next generation of IA-64 is ready to go.  9 > + They are both fairly unique and extreme examples of a  > particular style of ISA.? > + They are both "high-end" parts - by that I mean not "cheap">. > (certainly the case when compared to SPARC). > 5 > Apologies for the heart failures I may have caused.. > 	 > Cheers,  > Rupert   -- l --John- Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net5# (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)J   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 22:51:57 -0000D From: "Rupert Pigott" <roo@dark-try-removing-this-boong.demon.co.uk> Subject: Re: unixm2 Message-ID: <1046991118.105476@saucer.planet.gong>  5 "J. Clarke" <jclarke@nospam.invalid> wrote in messageo4 news:pan.2003.03.06.22.09.37.63893@nospam.invalid... [SNIP]  K > It remains to be seen whether IA-64 will have any impact on the industry,rH > considering how bad the first shot at it was, and that AMD is going to  ) Hey I was talking politics not reality...c   Cheers,m Rupert   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 22:54:43 GMTe) From: Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>  Subject: Re: unixi) Message-ID: <3E67D00B.8091285B@yahoo.com>e   Bill Gunshannon wrote:F > Sometimes paying doesn't get it either (and I'm not talking about MSD > here!)  I have held jobs where my purpose was to provide just suchG > support for commercial, proprietary systems because turning in an SPRnE > wasn't guaranteed to result in a fix at all, much less a quick one.e  G Vendors [except IBM] seem to have a general policy of not fixing code. nG They always start by telling you to install the latest release.  By the E time you've done that, and it hasn't fixed your problem, they've most G likely come out with yet another release.  Perhaps the original problemoD gets fixed eventually, but meanwhile all thet new, untested code has caused scads of other problems.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 15:52:00 -0800# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>  Subject: RE: unixc9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIMEAJGMAA.tom@kednos.com>u  J There was an article in the IBM Systems Journal ca. 1970 about the cost to maintainJ large software systems, which they showed was a convex function that had a minimum K after 5 years (IIRC)  Thus they conclude at some point it was more economicd
 to rewrite? the system, and so on.  That period  is probably shorter today.s   >-----Original Message-----u1 >From: Peter Flass [mailto:peter_flass@yahoo.com]a' >Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 2:55 PM, >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >Subject: Re: unix >l >e >Bill Gunshannon wrote:.G >> Sometimes paying doesn't get it either (and I'm not talking about MSrE >> here!)  I have held jobs where my purpose was to provide just suchoH >> support for commercial, proprietary systems because turning in an SPRF >> wasn't guaranteed to result in a fix at all, much less a quick one. >8G >Vendors [except IBM] seem to have a general policy of not fixing code.aH >They always start by telling you to install the latest release.  By theF >time you've done that, and it hasn't fixed your problem, they've mostH >likely come out with yet another release.  Perhaps the original problemE >gets fixed eventually, but meanwhile all thet new, untested code hasv  >caused scads of other problems. >s >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.g; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).sA >Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/2003o >r ---y& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/2003   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 20:15:12 -0500: From: Charles Shannon Hendrix <shannon@news.widomaker.com> Subject: Re: unixt7 Message-ID: <slrnb6fsl0.og2.shannon@news.widomaker.com>s  = In article <20030306192322.7342a7ab.steveo@eircom.net>, Stevec O'Hara-Smith wrote:r  $ >RP> Eeek ! I should qualify that... >RP> hA >RP> + VAX was "the future" and signalled the end of the line for / >RP> a fondly remembered architecture, the -10.o > A > 	Hmm - It's a scary thought that the PC and/or x86 architecturet% > might one day induce fond memories.a  * I thought he meant Alpha when I read that.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 17:56:10 -0800$ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> Subject: RE: unixr0 Message-ID: <01C2E409.BDCB2180@sulfer.icius.com>  = In article <20030306192322.7342a7ab.steveo@eircom.net>, Steve  O'Hara-Smith wrote:w  $ >RP> Eeek ! I should qualify that... >RP> iA >RP> + VAX was "the future" and signalled the end of the line forr/ >RP> a fondly remembered architecture, the -10.  > A > 	Hmm - It's a scary thought that the PC and/or x86 architecture % > might one day induce fond memories.a  F IIRC the posters for VAX read "The architecture for the 80s." At least in England.c  A Gawd, posters. Those were the days, actual effective advertising.    Shaneg   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 18:41:56 GMTn3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond)u8 Subject: Re: Upgrade to OPEN VMS 7.3-1 - Patches needed?. Message-ID: <UDM9a.42$Y46.28@news.cpqcorp.net>  @ In article <OF77724E4B.9D92BBF0-ON85256CE0.0075E2A4@metso.com>,  norm.raphael@metso.com writes:  I >Since you cannot upgrade a shadowed system disk, I am not sure about thed, >value of shadow_sys_disk after the upgrade.  D The Upgrade and Installation Manual has instructions in section 5.2,E Preparing to Upgrade in a Volume Shadowing Environment.  If these arerE followed, things can be expected to work correctly.  If other methodsy+ ("short cuts") are used, results will vary.    -- JJ       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 14:51:43 -0500 From: norm.raphael@metso.com8 Subject: Re: Upgrade to OPEN VMS 7.3-1 - Patches needed?? Message-ID: <OFBC45C431.90C5EFB2-ON85256CE1.006D1A81@metso.com>i  5 My point exactly.  Thanks, Charlie for the reference.c P.S.  Weird from-address! -N.R.u    = From:  <Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com> on 03/06/2003 01:41 PMd   To:    Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com cc:i  ; Subject:    Re: Upgrade to OPEN VMS 7.3-1 - Patches needed?     ? In article <OF77724E4B.9D92BBF0-ON85256CE0.0075E2A4@metso.com>,l norm.raphael@metso.com writes:  I >Since you cannot upgrade a shadowed system disk, I am not sure about thea, >value of shadow_sys_disk after the upgrade.  D The Upgrade and Installation Manual has instructions in section 5.2,E Preparing to Upgrade in a Volume Shadowing Environment.  If these are E followed, things can be expected to work correctly.  If other methodsa+ ("short cuts") are used, results will vary.o   --J       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 19:59:11 GMTa3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond)l8 Subject: Re: Upgrade to OPEN VMS 7.3-1 - Patches needed?. Message-ID: <jMN9a.49$fg6.25@news.cpqcorp.net>  / In article <b47jj1$35e$1@newslocal.mitre.org>, e/ lewis@spyder.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis) writes:t  L >The include file is physically on the system disk, but the path to it needsK >a logical which I define in the custom section of SYLOGICALS.COM, so maybe - >the upgrade procedure couldn't find it.  ...n  K On the first boot after upgrade (or installation) normal startup, includingS SYLOGICALS.COM, is not run.e   -- .J       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 20:30:47 -0500: From: Charles Shannon Hendrix <shannon@news.widomaker.com> Subject: Re: VAX again: unix7 Message-ID: <slrnb6fti7.og2.shannon@news.widomaker.com>a  9 In article <3e678c37$1@news.ucsc.edu>, Eugene Miya wrote:r  @ > While I know they, and Apple and Cray too, owned VAXen, it was- > and continues to be an IBM dominated world.v  F I think a lot of people discount the implications of IBM's "we service and support ANYTHING" policy.l  G I wonder how hardware deals go with IBM, when they supply Sun hardware,r% for example.  Do they get a discount?g   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 21:20:34 -0600n1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>': Subject: Re: VAXstation 4000 VLC VMS 5.5-2 Boot Parameters' Message-ID: <3E681002.2CA35931@fsi.net>n   brandon@dalsemi.com wrote: > J > > Since you mention "mouse", I assume that OPA0 is the graphics monitor.K > > You can switch this to a serial terminal by flipping the "S3" switch (InE > > think; I have some 4000s but not a VLC).  To avoid having to type F > > "boot", you need to specify another value of "halt" at the console > > prompt.r > M > I have both 4000 and 4000 VLC, I am curious about that too.  I guess I will & > look at my VLC when I get to work...  G Likely then that both you and Michael have discovered the little switchnA next to the keyboard connector. Whatever its current position is,oC reverse it and connect a tube or PC to the MMJ on the back (9600, 8  bits, no parity, 1 stop bit).o   Per the VLC book,s  > >>> SET HALT 1		Automatic restart (or reboot if can't restart)    >>> SET HALT 2		Automatic reboot   >>> SET HALT 3		Automatic halt  ( >>> SHOW HALT		Display the current value   -- i David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/d   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 04:23:11 GMTf+ From: Jeff Cameron <JCam90502@jcameron.com> ! Subject: Re: VMS Backup solutions 2 Message-ID: <BA8D5EAE.5A0A%JCam90502@jcameron.com>  E On 3/6/03 7:07 AM, in article 3E676435.70002@nospamn.sun.com, "AndrewoJ Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote:  8 > And the Veritas Netbackup was able to recover the data9 > because it keeps two copies on two separate tapes whichk; > would also be the only way that OpenVMS backup could have  > recovered the same data.  D While this is true, no software product can protect against a singleC Copy of a backup saveset and physical destruction of the tape. YouruD point is well taken that Veritas can help by making a second copy ofE the saveset on another tape. You can also make physical copies of VMSxD backup savesets, and complete multi-volume copies without backing up> twice with VMS. So in this area, VMS can do what Veritas does.  @ The underlying point is that when it comes to a single copy of a? Saveset on a single tape, VMS BACKUP can handle many tape blockoA destructions within the saveset without loss of backup integrity,i and this, Veritas cannot do.   Jeff Cameron   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 00:00:53 GMTa6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)L Subject: [OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-1 BACKUP] Where does version number come from ?3 Message-ID: <ViR9a.65213$AV5.836493@news.chello.at>w  $ $ BACK/LIS SYS$SYSDEVICE/IMA NL:X/SA Listing of save set(s)   Save set:          X.m ...s5 Command:           BACK/LIS SYS$SYSDEVICE/IMA NL:X/SAl- Operating system:  OpenVMS Alpha version V7.3h BACKUP version:    AXP73-1 ...a  @ BACKUP incorrectly states VMS version as V7.3 instead of V7.3-1.? Where does this version number come from ? Isn't $GETSYI used ?eC Is the version field length limited in BACKUP.EXE (BACKUPSHR.EXE) ?t  C I can't believe, that VMS has such stupid bugs now (Do you remembertF the thread about the similar version number problem in SHOW CLUSTER ?)9 and one can no longer rely on given info by the system...e  < So, one more reason, why V7.3-1 should have got named V7.4 !   -- a Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialistt E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 20:56:41 -0600w1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>h Subject: Re: [OT}:to Sue& Message-ID: <3E680A69.613C559@fsi.net>   Sue Skonetski wrote: >  > Dear Kesave, > F > Do you know if this was an add done by HP or by Oracle?  There was a2 > VMS add in the Oracle magazine a few months ago.  C Can expound on "the Oracle magazine", its circulation and audience?   B I am seriously considering offering a $1,000(US) cash reward for aH verifiable citation of a publication name, date and page number where anG OpenVMS ad appeared anytime in the last 18 months. GET THAT RIGHT: I ame/ *CONSIDERING*, the offer is not currently open!    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/a   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.129 ************************  % Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 21:44:11 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>-: Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants' Message-ID: <3E68158B.6A890659@fsi.net>e   John Vottero wrote:  > 8 > "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> wrote in message! > news:3E67C237.50100@MMaz.com...b > >g >  > [snip] > J > G'o!rs)X-ѬO}
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