1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 07 Mar 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 130       Contents: Re: Alpha 2100a  Re: Carly's feedback link  Re: Carly's feedback link  Re: Carly's feedback link  Re: CLI question for HP reps6 Re: Editor wars - Was: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?6 Re: Editor wars - Was: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?6 Re: Editor wars - Was: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ? RE: Fibre Channel and SCS  Re: Fibre Channel and SCS  Re: Fibre Channel and SCS ; Re: hobbiest RDB/Sql*Services security (unrelated question)  How to find nonsequential files # Re: How to find nonsequential files # Re: How to find nonsequential files # Re: How to find nonsequential files # Re: How to find nonsequential files ) Re: hp DECforms V3.3 Product Announcement 5 Re: Itanium "threw out all the good parts of the x86" 5 Re: Itanium "threw out all the good parts of the x86" 5 Re: Itanium "threw out all the good parts of the x86" / Re: Linus trashes Itanium - he's scared of VMS! F Re: Maximum Record Size Error, -RMS-F-MRS, invalid maximum record sizeF Re: Maximum Record Size Error, -RMS-F-MRS, invalid maximum record size, Re: Re: Mis-set Terminal Types (TOPS Lives!)A Re: Moving from Multinet to TCP/IP Services (LAT/NTY/TNA devices)  Re: Numeric usernames & Open VMS Laser Printing and Overlaying* Re: Open VMS Laser Printing and Overlaying* Re: Open VMS Laser Printing and Overlaying% Re: OpenVMS in ads (was: [OT}:to Sue) P Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marveland Alpha RetaiP Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marveland Alpha Retai& Oracle Magazine (was: RE: [OT}:to Sue)1 Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 1 Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 1 Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 1 Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 1 Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 1 Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 1 Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 1 Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 1 RE: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 1 Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 1 Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants  Re: portability was/is: unix) Re: Probleme with Java and OpenVMS V7.3-1 % Programmatic telnet taking forever!!! ) Re: Programmatic telnet taking forever!!! ) Re: Programmatic telnet taking forever!!!  Re: Questions on SSH for VMS Re: RMS version numberP Re: SIMH 2.10-4 released: major bug fixes to PDP-8, PDP-11, VAX, PDP-15, InterdaP Re: SIMH 2.10-4 released: major bug fixes to PDP-8, PDP-11, VAX, PDP-15, InterdaP Re: SIMH 2.10-4 released: major bug fixes to PDP-8, PDP-11, VAX, PDP-15, InterdaP Re: SIMH 2.10-4 released: major bug fixes to PDP-8, PDP-11, VAX, PDP-15, InterdaP Re: SIMH 2.10-4 released: major bug fixes to PDP-8, PDP-11, VAX, PDP-15, Interda& Re: Simulating LAT protocol on Windows Re: unix Re: unix Re: unix Re: unix Re: unix Re: unix Re: VAX again: unix  Re: VAX again: unix  Re: VAX again: unix C VAXStation 4000-90 without graphics card will not load VMS licenses  Re: VMS Backup solutions  VMS Mail wastebasket folder name< Want Multinet FTP listing to be 'ls -l' format to clients...@ Re: Want Multinet FTP listing to be 'ls -l' format to clients...) [OT] After two months of SAP training :-( - Re: [OT] After two months of SAP training :-( - Re: [OT] After two months of SAP training :-( - Re: [OT] After two months of SAP training :-(   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 10:08:37 +0100( From: "Piotr Glowacz" <pglowacz@used.pl> Subject: Re: Alpha 2100a/ Message-ID: <b49nja$abr$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>    Peter   1 > Maybe you can find a way to get an EV4 firmware  > version again in. $ > Look for keyword "failsafe loader" > K Thank you for your reply, but I've tried FSL already. In fact, I'm fighting G with this problem for over a month, with no success. I've read any PDF, 9 available for AlphaServers, and didn't find the solution.    Anyway, thank you again.  
 Best regards, 
 Piotr Glowacz    ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 08:46:15 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> " Subject: Re: Carly's feedback link; Message-ID: <01KT8JASQGB69FQH4P@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   G > I have an opportunity I'm currently working on that could amount to a G > couple handfuls of ES80's or even a GS series box and associated RAID F > in a fully disaster-tolerant configuration for a complete VMS newbieC > customer, and several million dollars in custom applications, yet C > without a visible, public presence for VMS and Alphaservers (read E > 'advertising and marketing'), it'll be a tough sell to the board of B > directors, even if VMS is the best technical choice of operating) > system for this particular application.   G You know, just ONE such deal would justify a salesman working with you  
 full time.  H > Their technical people are telling me that VMS is dead, Alpha is dead,E > and no amount of Itanic will convince them otherwise. They say that H > there is nothing *currently* public that could change their perception= > because they don't feel that HP is putting it's money up to F > demonstrate that they are irrefutably committed to VMS. They rightlyE > point out that a few Powerpoint presentations with pro-VMS messages H > isn't the same as an advertising campaign. They don't want to be stuckB > with an orphaned o/s, and they view an advertising and marketingH > commitment for VMS to be instrumental in ensuring that does not occur.  I Your enemies just have to do ONE THING to sabotage your dreams entirely,  F even if you produce some "commitments" from HP: bring in a witness whoH states "yeah, right, these same guys told me a few years ago that NT on A ALPHA was the future; we invested millions and are now orphaned".    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 14:57:30 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> " Subject: Re: Carly's feedback linkH Message-ID: <ur2aa.66499$em1.57837@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  F "Phillip Helbig" <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message5 news:01KT8JASQGB69FQH4P@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com... D > > I have an opportunity I'm currently working on that could amount to aD > > couple handfuls of ES80's or even a GS series box and associated RAIDA > > in a fully disaster-tolerant configuration for a complete VMS  newbieE > > customer, and several million dollars in custom applications, yet E > > without a visible, public presence for VMS and Alphaservers (read D > > 'advertising and marketing'), it'll be a tough sell to the board ofD > > directors, even if VMS is the best technical choice of operating+ > > system for this particular application.  > D > You know, just ONE such deal would justify a salesman working with you  > full time.  F I'm focusing on the custom application software at this point, not theE H/W and O/S. Certain portions of the application architecture will be E a bit different if VMS isn't used, but those portions are isolatable. B Yes it would be much better to run this app on VMS, but I'd ratherD lose the H/W and O/S battle than lose out on building the app due toE sticking my neck out too far pushing VMS.  Being a pragmatist, I have  to eat too.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 11:11:34 -0600* From: "Dave Gudewicz" <dgudewicz@core.com>" Subject: Re: Carly's feedback link/ Message-ID: <v6hkm87srorv3a@corp.supernews.com>   C I took advantage of this opportunity and sent in my letter.  Got an * automated reply, which is what I expected.  H I used terms such as emphasis, flagship product, security, clustering toI name a few wrt VMS.  I did not ask that VMS be put on prime time 30 or 60 J second commercial spots.  IMO that would be money not well spent.  I can't? imagine someone watching some reality show of late and actually E perking/waking up when VMS was mentioned in any context.  And I don't J remember ever seeing a MVS/HP-UX/Solaris/whatever type commercial.  What IJ have seen were things like "we put the dot in the dot com." and stuff like= that.  That didn't make me run to the store and but one, btw.   D I did ask that VMS get more attention in the broader IT marketplace.  L I suggest we all take advantage of this opportunity and keep those cards and letters coming.    -- Dave...   L I have made it a rule never to smoke more than one cigar at a time. ----Mark Twain    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 07:11:43 -07006 From: "Michael D. Ober" <obermd-@-alum-mit-edu-nospam>% Subject: Re: CLI question for HP reps 1 Message-ID: <AM1aa.401$U32.23482@news.uswest.net>   K Then don't.  VMS existed for years without the Unix utilities and I haven't I seen anything that forces you to use them.  That said, VMS doesn't have a G large market share and restricting yourself to it is also limiting your  potential future employment.  B As a freeware author I find it very, very annoying when someone isJ complaining about freeware.  Useful and correct software is hard to write,L and when someone is doing so and giving it away, you don't have any right toD complain about it.  You do have a right to not use it.  Constructive< feedback with suggestions for improvement are always useful.  	 Mike Ober - http://home.sprintmail.com/~obermd/SETIDriver   H "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:hqSuqq+Mi6CS@eisner.encompasserve.org... F > In article <VCw9a.528$vM1.101887@news.uswest.net>, "Michael D. Ober"& <obermd-@-alum-mit-edu-nospam> writes:K > > You only need to do this once for each utility you want to convert.  If = > > you're too lazy to do this, don't use the unix utilities.  > J >    I admit I'm lazy, but I wasn't the one asking for more eunichs stuff.8 >    I wish I never had to use any of this eunichs crap! >    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 09:37:07 -0500- From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> ? Subject: Re: Editor wars - Was: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ? 6 Message-ID: <b4aaqq$1tkjqo$1@ID-141708.news.dfncis.de>   Alan E. Feldman wrote: >...4 > I peeked at the MESSAGES buffer and here they are: > $ > Editing new file.  Could not find: _IDS03$DKA200:[FT.COM]NEW.FILE;   0 Don't think you can (or want to) avoid this one.  ; > EDT keypad defined (for more information, see help on EDT  > DIFFERENCES). , > Executing commands in initialization file:# > DISK$DATA1:[FELDMAN]AEFINIT.EVE;3 8 > Editor will not check for modified attributes on exit.   These can be avoided by;*     1. Edit a file the way you normally do*     2. SAVE EXTENDED TPU SYS$LOGIN:NEW_EVE>     3. Get rid of al EVE$* and TPU$* logicals (or at least the; EVE$INIT, EVE$KEYPAD, TPU$SECTION and TPU$COMMAND logicals) )     4. Either change your edit command to > EDIT:==EDIT/SECTION=SYS$LOGIN:NEW_EVE or define TPU$SECTION to, look at your SYS$LOGIN:NEW_EVE section file.=     5. Save your old AEFINIT.EVE and any other .TPU files you = used to build your NEW_EVE since you might need them some day + if HP changes TPU and/or EVE in the future. =     6. From now on you should only see the "Editing new file"  or "x lines read" messages.    >...< > I am running VMS 6.1 on some boxes, 6.2 on others. I don't	 know what  > you're running.    4.7 through 7.3-1 :)   >...     -- Peter Weaver: Opinions are my own, and do not reflect the opinions of my	 employer, > nor the company that it sub-contracts to, nor the company that it sub-contracts to.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 09:33:37 -0500 ! From: Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu> ? Subject: Re: Editor wars - Was: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ? ' Message-ID: <3E68ADC1.FAE473EE@vcu.edu>   C that sounds like 'em... oh "Hazeltine Mod 1", or "Hazeltine Modular  One"????????  2 big ugly beastie...  'bout a 3-4 " high keyboard..   jim   
 ualski wrote:  > I > I'm pretty certain there were only two pieces to them - CRT & Keyboard. I > The CRT box was fairly large and boxy. Don't know about the innards but H > core is a possibility. They were hand-me-downs in 1975. Neat terminals > never the less.  >  > Jim Agnew wrote: > > L > > were thos the hazeltines with a big cpu box under it about the size of aI > > pizza box vs3100, a little "neck", and then the crt box above it, all " > > one piece, with CORE memory??? > >  > > jim  > >  > > ualski wrote:  > > >  > > > Paul Sture wrote:  > > >  > > > > 1 > > > > Anyone remember SOS, whilst we are at it? 
 > > > > -- > > > > Paul Sture > > > O > > > I loved SOS after using TECO, not that I admited that in public. That and N > > > those Hazeltine terminals with neon lamps under the tall push-buttons on8 > > > the keyboard where a big improvement over KSR/ASR. > > >  > > > -- Aaron Sliwinski > >  > > --J > > "4,000 years ago I made a mistake."  Elrond Half-Elven, in "Fellowship > > of the Ring"   --  F "4,000 years ago I made a mistake."  Elrond Half-Elven, in "Fellowship of the Ring"   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 09:49:04 -0500' From: "Dale A. Marcy" <dqm@y12.doe.gov> ? Subject: Re: Editor wars - Was: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ? , Message-ID: <b4abh0$lpj$1@sws1.ctd.ornl.gov>  4 "Carl Perkins" <carl@gerg.tamu.edu> wrote in message& news:6MAR200322362386@gerg.tamu.edu...  
 8< snip >8  H > I don't normally use EVE. Or EDT, for that matter. I normally use LSE,J > but it is very similar to EVE in most respects (as I recall, back when II > first tried them out EVE's "EDT" keypad had two differences in behavior J > from the real one but LSE's only had one - I no longer remember what theJ > second one was, but the one LSE also has is that you can't have a searchF > patter that includes the end of line since both the "Return", or theH > equivalent Control-M, and "Enter" keys terminate the pattern and startF > the search; not so with EDT, it lets you use "Return" (or ^M) in theH > search string as the pattern entry does not terminate when you hit it, > only when you hit Enter).   F You can search for end of line, but you have to type ^V^M for carriageB return and/or ^V^J for line feed while entering the search string.  
 8< snip >8  
 > --- Carl --
 Dale A. Marcy  VMS System Manager5 SAIC - Science Applications International Corporation 
 (865)576-4942    Berra's Universal Law - 2 "Before everything changed, it was all different."   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 06:46:29 -0500' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> " Subject: RE: Fibre Channel and SCST Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660E00@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   John,   > >>> I will look forward to V7.3-1 for relative priorities. <<<   As a fyi, check out:B http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/731FINAL/6657/6657pro_005.html#scrap   Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.! Consulting & Integration Services  Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom-     (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s)  OpenVMS DCL - the original .COM      -----Original Message-----9 From: brandon@dalsemi.com [mailto:brandon@dalsemi.com]=20  Sent: March 6, 2003 1:25 PM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com " Subject: Re: Fibre Channel and SCS    H > By default, SCS will prefer MC over Fast Ethernet, so just adding Fast  H > Ethernet alone won't change things (other than providing redundancy to  I > ride through a MC failure).  With 7.3-1 or above, you can adjust the=20 : > relative priorities of MC and Fast Ethernet using SCACP.  2 I understand that SCS would prefer MC over Fast-E.  C I am limited on PCI slots and will be needing to make some changes.    My options: A 1) Replace MC with Fast-E; then use both Fast-E and GIGe for SCS. - 2) Keep MC; and use both MC and GIGe for SCS.   A The Fast-E will be dedicated to SCS traffic.  Potentially console H traffic for the HSG80 controllers.  So very little other traffic will be on here.  6 I will look forward to V7.3-1 for relative priorities.       John Brandon VMS Systems Administrator  Dallas Semiconductor john.brandon@dalsemi.com 972.371.4172 wk  972.371.4003 fx    ------------------------------  * Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 11:58:08 +0000 (UTC)5 From: "John Wallace" <johnwallace4@yahoo.dotco.dotuk> " Subject: Re: Fibre Channel and SCS0 Message-ID: <b4a1gf$otq$1@sparta.btinternet.com>  > "Keith Parris" <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message7 news:cf15391e.0303061817.2aff68dc@posting.google.com... 6 > jbrankin@ntlworld.com (Jim Brankin) wrote in message8 news:<863f19d6.0303060138.c71d817@posting.google.com>...J > >   Are there any plans to use 802.11b or other wireless LAN products as > > a cluster interconnect?  > D > Assuming a VMS node is connected to Ethernet, and that Ethernet isE > connected to a wireless Access Point, which talks to another Access F > Point and then through Ethernet to another VMS node, then in theory,F > if the 802.11b equipment does bridging, and it operates at its ratedG > speed of 11 megabits (thus meeting the Cluster Software SPD's minimum C > bandwidth requirement of 10 megabits), why shouldn't it just work   > today?  Has anyone tried this? > G > If direct attachment were required, drivers for PCI or PCMCIA 802.11b F > wireless cards would require some work to be done in VMS, I presume.  H Y'know, I could have sworn I wrote a few words about 802.11b a day or so4 back (in another thread?). Here's a few more anyway.  K 802.11b realistic usable data rate is not 11Mbits, it is quite a  lot less. H Iirc, 11Mb is the data rate of bits in packets on the air. Many of thoseK bits are overhead bits, ECC, etc. The achievable throughput generally maxes K out at 4Mb or so in absolutely ideal circumstances (1 PC on 1 access point, C best signal quality). Add more players or reduce signal quality and L throughput goes down. There is a lot more housekeeping and protocol overheadI in WLAN technology than in 10Mb Ethernet. And the latency may not be what K you'd hope either, especially if there are more than two active stations on 	 the WLAN.   L In principle it's possible to set up two suitable WLAN boxes as half bridgesI for this kind of thing. Are they still limited to 4Mb when in half-bridge C mode? Not 100% sure - but I still don't expect it to be impressive.   H Like I said before, people have done this kind of thing in the past withE Translans etc (a multi-site LAN bridge with a serial link between the I sites). It wasn't nice then, with half-manageable devices like Translans, F but I have seen it sort of nearly work some of the time even though it5 wasn't supported (e.g. 2Mb rather than 10Mb thruput).   K I would expect with today's barely-manageable SoHo-class WLAN kit  you'd be F asking for trouble (no protocol filtering? trivially small MAC addressK caches?). Maybe a better chance with pro-class WLAN stuff but the PHMs will I want to know why it costs more than 20 times as much for the one you want 0 rather than the Linksys his son bought for home.  J Might be worth a go for a laugh. But rather than "don't try this at home",K here I'd say "DO try this at home" otherwise bad things might happen on the , corporate LAN. And VMS people don't do that.   cheers john   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Mar 2003 07:42:20 -0800 # From: wmarsh@etrade.com (Wil Marsh) " Subject: Re: Fibre Channel and SCS= Message-ID: <36f52bd6.0303070742.4b26607f@posting.google.com>   v keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) wrote in message news:<cf15391e.0303060949.348882cb@posting.google.com>...j > wmarsh@etrade.com (Wil Marsh) wrote in message news:<36f52bd6.0303051624.147326a6@posting.google.com>...J > > Hopefully they will never put SCS on Fiberchannel. SCS traffic ideally8 > > should be on dedicated paths throughout the cluster. > F > But look at this from another viewpoint: Fibre Channel has Fast_PathC > support today (which you were wishing for on LANs).  And if Fibre ? > Channel supported SCS, what would prevent you from creating a H > dedicated (even 2-gigabit) Fibre Channel SAN for SCS just like you canA > create a dedicated LAN for SCS today with Fast and/or 1-Gigabit  > Ethernet?  > H > Also, just because SCS on FC is supported doesn't mean you have to useD > it.  You could always adjust the priority downward using SCACP (onH > 7.3-1 or above) so that FC would only be used as a last resort, but itG > could provide additional redundancy to keep the cluster together when E > the network goes bad.  And occasionally the network does go bad, it  > seems. ;-)D Yes as I finished the previous note  the router housing the GIGe forD the cluster was rebooted for other network issues and we failed over0 to the FDDI and back. 50 million mount verifies.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 18:12:56 +0100$ From: Michael Unger <unger@decus.de>D Subject: Re: hobbiest RDB/Sql*Services security (unrelated question)+ Message-ID: <00A1C85D.A46089A2.35@decus.de>   $ <JBloggs@acme..spamless..com> wrote:  C > On Wed, 5 Mar 2003 18:03:04 +0100, Michael Unger <unger@decus.de>  > wrote: > , > >Do you still have the links to the kits? 
 > See below.   > Q > >I visited the OTN site a few hours ago and found it full of JavaScript, i.e.,  # > > unusable for secured browsers.   > 2 > Ayep, definitely.  All sorts of cookies as well. >  > [...]   C Thanks for the extensive list of URLs - I have saved it "for future F reference". (I don't need it immediately but it is always advantageous6 to have the URLs handy if you really need them ... :-)   Michael    ------------------------------  * Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 14:09:21 +0000 (UTC)* From: Osmo Kujala <kujala@tukki.cc.jyu.fi>( Subject: How to find nonsequential files, Message-ID: <b4a96h$3ja$1@mordred.cc.jyu.fi>  8 Hi, does someone know easy way to find out if there are ? nonsequential (indexed, relative etc.) files in directory tree? 5 And if there are, how to pick them up or delete away?   @ The purpose of this is to make tar-file of mainly text-files for transfer to unix/linux systems.   ? (My version of tar stops, when it tries to read relative file.)    Osmo   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 09:34:36 -0500 ' From: Chris Olive <nospam@raytheon.com> , Subject: Re: How to find nonsequential files< Message-ID: <b72aa.106$35.963@dfw-service2.ext.raytheon.com>   Osmo Kujala wrote:: > Hi, does someone know easy way to find out if there are A > nonsequential (indexed, relative etc.) files in directory tree? 7 > And if there are, how to pick them up or delete away?  > B > The purpose of this is to make tar-file of mainly text-files for! > transfer to unix/linux systems.  > A > (My version of tar stops, when it tries to read relative file.)  >  > Osmo   $ filespec := *.*;*  $ file = f$search( filespec )  $ while:% $    if (file .eqs. "") then goto end A $    if (f$file_attr( file, "ORG" ) .eqs. "SEQ") !! Check is here  $       then $       !! Add to tar 
 $    endif  $    file = f$search( filespec ) $    goto while  $ end:   Chris  -----  Chris Olive  Systems Consultant' Raytheon Technical Services Corporation  Indianapolis, IN  * email: olivec(AT)indy(DOT)raytheon(DOT)com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 16:08:16 +0100 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> , Subject: Re: How to find nonsequential files' Message-ID: <3E68B5E0.375BCC33@aaa.com>    Or : $ filespec := *.*;*  $ file = f$search( filespec )  $ while:% $    if (file .eqs. "") then goto end A $    if (f$file_attr( file, "ORG" ) .nes. "SEQ") !! Check is here 	 $    then  $       delete 'file' 
 $    endif  $    file = f$search( filespec ) $    goto while  $ end:) $! Build TAR file from remaining files...  $!     Chris Olive wrote: >  > Osmo Kujala wrote:; > > Hi, does someone know easy way to find out if there are C > > nonsequential (indexed, relative etc.) files in directory tree? 9 > > And if there are, how to pick them up or delete away?  > > D > > The purpose of this is to make tar-file of mainly text-files for# > > transfer to unix/linux systems.  > > C > > (My version of tar stops, when it tries to read relative file.)  > >  > > Osmo >  > $ filespec := *.*;*  > $ file = f$search( filespec ) 
 > $ while:' > $    if (file .eqs. "") then goto end C > $    if (f$file_attr( file, "ORG" ) .eqs. "SEQ") !! Check is here  > $       then > $       !! Add to tar  > $    endif" > $    file = f$search( filespec ) > $    goto while  > $ end: >  > Chris  > ----- 
 > Chris Olive  > Systems Consultant) > Raytheon Technical Services Corporation  > Indianapolis, IN > , > email: olivec(AT)indy(DOT)raytheon(DOT)com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 11:48:30 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>, Subject: Re: How to find nonsequential files. Message-ID: <3E68BF47.28FB95A@vl.videotron.ca>   Chris Olive wrote:; > > Hi, does someone know easy way to find out if there are C > > nonsequential (indexed, relative etc.) files in directory tree? 9 > > And if there are, how to pick them up or delete away?    HELP LEX F$FILE_INFORMATION   N You can do a loop of F$SEARCH to get individual file names in a directory, and for each file:  & org = F$FILE_INFORMATION(myfile,"ORG")  # org will equal either "SEQ REL IDX"   R You can also use F$FILE_INFORMATION to see if the file is a directory file or not.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 11:53:25 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>, Subject: Re: How to find nonsequential files/ Message-ID: <3E68C06E.C6D9A412@vl.videotron.ca>   
 Added tidbit:   I if you FTP files to a remote system, most indexed files will be extracted < sequentially as text files, sorted in order of primary key.   N If the VMS "type" command works, then when you transfer the file with FTP, youL will get the data without any VMS specific stuff when transfering to foreign systems. (generally speaking).   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 18:06:18 +0100$ From: Michael Unger <unger@decus.de>2 Subject: Re: hp DECforms V3.3 Product Announcement+ Message-ID: <00A1C85C.B7372E64.18@decus.de>   4 "Sue Skonetski" <susan_skonetski@hotmail.com> wrote:  G > HP DECforms for OpenVMS is a software product for the development and H > deployment of forms-based user interfaces for interactive applicationsD > running on OpenVMS systems. DECforms V3.3 is a maintenance releaseH > demonstrating the OpenVMS commitment to product quality. DECforms V3.3G > is available on the OpenVMS Alpha and VAX Q1  CY2003 software product  > libraries. >   P > DECforms Web Site: http://www.openvms.compaq.com/commercial/decforms/index.htm >    > [...]   8 According to http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/decforms.htmlC the current version of DECforms is V2.2 -- is V3.3 really the next  , version or should that be read as "V2.3" ???   Michael    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 11:39:14 GMT 0 From: rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace)> Subject: Re: Itanium "threw out all the good parts of the x86"0 Message-ID: <3e688452.183142367@news.eircom.net>  B On 28 Feb 2003 17:19:40 -0800, xeio77@hotmail.com (Tsarkon) wrote:  F >Anyways, the finding were as follows: IA64 is a PC. P4 Xeons (2.6Ghz)F >were better able to handle this task for a fraction of the cost (lessD >packets were dropped). I have a portable application, written well,F >and compiled with icc7 for ia32 and ia64. Same operating environment.G >Same kernel. The kernel and how it interacts with the hardware is real G >bottleneck here, and the same kernel on IA64 was worse at handling the  >card's requests.   D Ah, that makes sense. I guess that job would involve lots of context8 switches, unpredictable branches and latency rather thanC bandwidth-intensive I/O, none of which Itanium is particularly good D at; it does much better on regular "slurp in lots of data and crunch it" type jobs.   --  3 "Mercy to the guilty is treachery to the innocent." + Remove killer rodent from address to reply. ! http://www.esatclear.ie/~rwallace    ------------------------------  * Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 12:07:43 +0000 (UTC)5 From: "John Wallace" <johnwallace4@yahoo.dotco.dotuk> > Subject: Re: Itanium "threw out all the good parts of the x86"/ Message-ID: <b4a22f$6vc$1@venus.btinternet.com>   = "Russell Wallace" <rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net> wrote in message * news:3e688452.183142367@news.eircom.net...D > On 28 Feb 2003 17:19:40 -0800, xeio77@hotmail.com (Tsarkon) wrote: > H > >Anyways, the finding were as follows: IA64 is a PC. P4 Xeons (2.6Ghz)H > >were better able to handle this task for a fraction of the cost (lessF > >packets were dropped). I have a portable application, written well,H > >and compiled with icc7 for ia32 and ia64. Same operating environment.I > >Same kernel. The kernel and how it interacts with the hardware is real I > >bottleneck here, and the same kernel on IA64 was worse at handling the  > >card's requests.  > F > Ah, that makes sense. I guess that job would involve lots of context: > switches, unpredictable branches and latency rather thanE > bandwidth-intensive I/O, none of which Itanium is particularly good F > at; it does much better on regular "slurp in lots of data and crunch > it" type jobs. >  > --5 > "Mercy to the guilty is treachery to the innocent." - > Remove killer rodent from address to reply. # > http://www.esatclear.ie/~rwallace   E Put another way, IA64 is a top-class replay engine. You program it at I compile time and optimise the program using feedback and then once you've H done it right, it does the same thing again and again quite quickly. ButH distract it from the program it is playing and you pay a penalty till it& gets a good head of steam going again.  A Or so it was explained to me once. I liked the explanation. YMMV.    cheers john   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Mar 2003 10:25:01 -0600 + From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) > Subject: Re: Itanium "threw out all the good parts of the x86"3 Message-ID: <p4IcMhRTr7hD@eisner.encompasserve.org>   g In article <b4a22f$6vc$1@venus.btinternet.com>, "John Wallace" <johnwallace4@yahoo.dotco.dotuk> writes:    > G > Put another way, IA64 is a top-class replay engine. You program it at K > compile time and optimise the program using feedback and then once you've J > done it right, it does the same thing again and again quite quickly. ButJ > distract it from the program it is playing and you pay a penalty till it( > gets a good head of steam going again. >   > 	Oh there are a lot of myths and general rubbish out and about: 	regarding Itanium/IPF.  The fact that it has a tremendous@ 	amount of resources (256 physical registers for starters) gives 	the eggheads a lot of avenues.   7 	It goes beyond "replay engines" all the downsides that ) 	kind of verbage hints at.  For instance:   > http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?doid=512529.512544#FullText  O Software-based speculative precomputation (SSP) is one such technique, proposed " for multithreaded Itanium models.    	[snip]   L This paper presents a post-pass compilation tool for generating SSP-enhancedK binaries. The tool is able to: (1) analyze a single-threaded application to G generate prefetch threads; (2) identify and embed trigger points in the K original binary; and (3) produce a new binary that has the prefetch threads I attached. The execution of the new binary spawns the speculative prefetch J threads, which are executed concurrently with the main thread. Our resultsH indicate that for a set of pointer-intensive benchmarks, the prefetchingM performed by the speculative threads achieves an average of 87% speedup on an @ in-order processor and 5% speedup on an out-of-order processor.     = 	pointer-chasing... i.e. databases, i.e. a tool Microsoft and @ 	Oracle will be VERY interested in applying to Itanium binaries.  < 	There are two markets that Itanium (to me at least) should ? 	make large impacts in (in the next 2-5 years).  floating point ? 	and databases.  That doesn't leave much out.  SpecInt markets?   A 	In other words, Itanium is poised/targetted (and research poured ) 	into areas) at the money making markets.    				Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 11:18:17 +0000 ' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy 8 Subject: Re: Linus trashes Itanium - he's scared of VMS!. Message-ID: <3E687FF9.8090808@nospamn.sun.com>   Bill Todd wrote:M > "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> ; > wrote in message news:3E676E7F.9000201@nospamn.sun.com...	 >  >> >>Bill Todd wrote: >>& >>>"Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" >>) > <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>  > < >>>wrote in message news:3E65EBAF.9030805@nospamn.sun.com... >> >  > ...U >  > H >>>>Well no not quite, implimenting Itanium 2 in a 130 nanometer process. >>>>should decrease the die size to ~314 mm^2. >>>s >>>EJ >>>There's no need to guess in this matter:  Intel has already stated thatK >>>Madison's die area is 374 mm^2.  That, however, includes 6 MB of on-chipn >> > L3 > J >>>cache compared with McKinley's 3 MB:  since the cache consumes about 35H >>>mm^2/MB, if McKinley were shrunk to 130 nm its die area would thus be >> > aboute >  >>>269 mm^2. >>>u >># >>I am guessing just as much as youa >  > K > No, you're guessing (incorrectly), while I'm reporting Intel's statements  > about its own chip.t >   = So you are, but the chip you are refering to isn't Itanium IIa: so you are still just guessing on the basis of a different) IPF chip with more cache and core tweaks.d     >  however as the basis of > F >>my guess I used the die shrink ratios for Xeon/P4 as they moved fromC >>180 to 130 nanometer the same start and end process as the one weiF >>are discussing. Without anything else to go on its easily as good asF >>trying to guess how much the cache shrinks relative to the core whenG >>you move from a larger process to a smaller process which is what you  >>seem to be trying to do. >  > J > No, it is not.  Intel has stated the size of Madison, and it's 374 mm^2.M > Intel has stated that 57% of its die area is consumed by its 6 MB of cache,aB > which works out to 35.5 mm^2/MB (I rounded this down to 35 to beK > conservative, since the percentage is only given to 2 digits of precisiontM > anyway).  From those two figures, it's only a *very* small extrapolation to H > the size that McKinley would be in 130 nm:  266 - 269 mm^2 - in markedG > contrast to your guess based on a completely different product with a 9 > completely different cache/non-cache ratio on the chip.  >   5 Its a different chip, how many times do you need this 7 repeating. So the relationship between Madison die sizeo5 in 130 nanometer and Itanium II die size if it was toV7 be built in 130 nanometer is just a guess on your part.r  9 Don't dress it up with sience Bill there isn't any there.      >  > : >>You also make the huge and risky assumption that say two6 >>die sizes with an area of say 131 mm^2 result in the7 >>same number of dies per wafer, they don't because noto" >>all dies have the same geometry. >  > M > You're either very confused or spinning again.  While you've been trying to,L > muddy the waters by changing the discussion to yields, I've said *nothing*F > about that, just corrected your erroneous assertions about die size. >   ? No I am not, where in the above paragraph do I refer to yields.x   Regards  Andrew Harrisonx   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Mar 2003 08:19:23 -0600  From: briggs@encompasserve.orgO Subject: Re: Maximum Record Size Error, -RMS-F-MRS, invalid maximum record size 3 Message-ID: <vEbrfvR6soi2@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  _ In article <3-ednenAcM7_nPWjXTWcpQ@metrocast.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:eI > No, it won't.  However, as noted above if your file is extended in veryhM > small fragments you'll reduce space waste *outside* the RMS buckets (unless]L > RMS-32 will combine left-over space less than a full bucket in size from aF > previous allocation with the new allocation, though since this would7 > fragment buckets internally it may well not do that).:  + How would this fragment buckets internally?s  A Suppose a bucket size of 10 and a cluster size of 3 and an extendf size of 100.  F The file needs to grow.  RMS tries to allocate 100 blocks and gets 102  5 The file now has 102 blocks allocated and 10 buckets.t  C The file grows again.  RMS tries to allocate 100 more blocks (or 98y9 depending on implementation details) and gets 102 (or 99)u  > The file now has 204 (or 201) blocks allocated and 20 buckets.  : I would not expect an internal hole at VBN 101-102 between> bucket 10 at VBN 91-100 and bucket 11 at VBN 103-112.  I would- expect bucket 11 to be placed at VBN 101-110.c  ? But perhaps the full situation (multiple areas, multiple bucket @ sizes and placement requests) is complex enough so that internal! fragmentation is indeed an issue.8   	John Briggs   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 10:39:58 -05001 From: "Lonnie Blevins" <lblevins@regenstrief.org>eO Subject: Re: Maximum Record Size Error, -RMS-F-MRS, invalid maximum record sizes/ Message-ID: <b4aegg$r8$1@hood.uits.indiana.edu>i  D I believe that the maximum record size is (32768 - bucket_overhead -G single_record_overhead).   For a BUCKET_SIZE less that the maximum, the A maximum record size would be (BUCKET_SIZE*512 - bucket_overhead -iI single_record_overhead).  The RMS manual describes calculations for thoseeH overhead bytes but I cannot remember them now.  I recall that the actualD maximum record size therefore varies based on the amount of overheadG required (compression on or off, etc.) for the RMS settings being used.   D The BUCKET_SIZE does not have to match the disk CLUSTER_SIZE at all.H However, RMS will force the size of the AREAs within a file to be both aJ multiple of the BUCKET_SIZE and a multiple of the CLUSTER_SIZE.  Thus, theH file you actually create with via a given FDL may get slightly different1 AREA sizes than those you record in the FDL file.   J I do not remember if AREA EXTENSION sizes are also adjusted automatically.J However, I do not think any internal file space gets wasted based on thoseJ sizes.  The only wasted space comes from fitting the records inside of the' buffers with the specified BUFFER_SIZE.     D "Daryl Jones" <jones.computer.srv@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message7 news:8a646952.0303061118.7db7bd00@posting.google.com...:0 > dooleys@snowy.net.au (dooley) wrote in message8 news:<1ca82fc6.0303052316.419da2a@posting.google.com>...6 > > del.duncan@intel.com (Del Duncan) wrote in message9 news:<98342c9f.0303051553.7c5e2e9c@posting.google.com>...nH > > > I'm trying to use an FDL to create and convert files but I get theK > > > above error, even when creating a simple test file.    I'm attemptingeJ > > > to create the files as Indexed, variable-length records, record size > > > 25042. > > >tF > > > In debugging this, I find that if I set the FILE-ORGANIZATION toJ > > > SEQUENTIAL, it then works, but if I set it to INDEXED, it fails.   IL > > > did some experimentation and found that I could get it to create a newE > > > file at 6500 but not at 7500.    The "OpenVMS Record ManagementeJ > > > Utilities Reference Manual" states that Indexed files can have appr. > > > 32K records. > > >E7 > > I've just tried it and a record size of 16384 works : > > while a size of 32768 fails. (on alpha OpenVMS V7.2-1)& > > ...many versions of test.fdl later+ > > it seems that the cutoff point is 32232r/ > > are your rms sysgen parameters different tot > > SYSGEN>  SHOW RMSlI > > Parameter Name         Current    Default     Min.      Max.     Unitr Dynamice >WL  --------------         -------    -------    -------   -------   ----  ---- ---fJ > > RMS_DFMBC                    16         16         1        127 Blocks D-J > > RMS_DFMBFSDK                  0          0         0        127 Blocks DuJ > > RMS_DFMBFSMT                  0          0         0        127 Blocks D3K > > RMS_DFMBFSUR                  0          0         0        127 Buffers  DtK > > RMS_DFMBFREL                  0          0         0        127 Buffers  DeK > > RMS_DFMBFIDX                  0          0         0        127 Buffersd DtK > > RMS_DFMBFHSH                  0          0         0        127 Buffersh DwC > > RMS_PROLOGUE                  0          0         0          3  Prolog-Lvl DJ > > RMS_EXTEND_SIZE               0          0         0      65535 Blocks D C > > RMS_FILEPROT              64000      64000         0      65535c	 Prot-mask J > > RMS_DFNBC                     8          8         1        127 Blocks DiI > > RMS_DFLRL                     0          0         0      32767 Bytes  D K > > RMS_HEURISTIC                 0          0         0          1 Booleanl DkK > > RMS_VCC_DFW                   0          0         0          1 Boolean  D C > > RMSD1                         0          0         0          1a D  > > SYSGEN>k > >i > > Phil >- > Everyone,- >-= > The maximun record size in a RMS file is as follows (1991):  >r? > Sequential (Fix or VAR): 32,767 bytes or 64 blocks of 512 - 1PH >                   (VFC): 32,767 - FSZ where FSZ is fixed control field3 >                               size of VFC records & >       Sequential (Tape): 9,995 bytes >o' >          Relative (Fix): 32,225 bytes ' >                   (VAR): 32,253 bytessH >                   (VFC): 32,253 - FSZ bytes where FSZ is fixed control > fieldh3 >                               size of VFC recordsp' >    Indexed (Fix or VAR): 32,224 bytesc >oH > When converting ISAM files use the FDL Analyze tool to create your FDLD > file for tuning the ISAM file. If you are just defragging the fileD > ISAM file then convert the file directly. One thing to remember isH > that the bucket size must be an intergral number of disk cluster size.E > This will reduce wasted space inside the RMS bucket. One more item,tC > the bucket size can't be less than the longest record size in thetB > file. You can force the the bucket to be less by hard coding theG > value, however, FDL utility will error out otherwise. RMS at run-time & > will error out on this kind of file. > 
 > Daryl Jones    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 15:25:36 GMTt( From: "konabear" <maurert@ameritech.net>5 Subject: Re: Re: Mis-set Terminal Types (TOPS Lives!)c? Message-ID: <QR2aa.4293$se1.2461366@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com>r  K I know a place still a TOPS-10 derivitive running KL-10 hardware emulaters.R: There is even a linux based software emulator or KL-10s...   Todd5 "Jack Peacock" <peacock@simconv.com> wrote in messagee, news:_YydnVY7OeAhH8OjXTWcqg@mpowercom.net...H > "Phillip Helbig" <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message7 > news:01KSY0ZJ5WQQ9FNHX8@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com...aL > > The Unknown Comic was an occasional guest, a stand-up comic who appearedK > > with a bag on his head with holes for eyes, nose and mouth.  One day heIF > > appeared with a small paper bag on his hand with the same cutouts.J > > "Check out my new ventriloquist act, Chuck!  Pretty good, huh?  Didn't > > even see my mouth move!" > >DH > The Unknown Comic had a successful run here in Las Vegas too.  IIRC heJ > headlined several times at the old Hacienda (in Vegas tradition blown up toL > make room for the Mandalay Bay).  The paper sack dummy ventriloquist dummy' > was often featured on the billboards.S >GJ > To keep it on topic I went by the Hacienda every day going to work at anF > undisclosed location to bang on a non-existent PDP-11/05 and later aJ > plausibly denied VAX 11-750.  Being poor folk we didn't get the nice big8 > KL-10s the guys across the unsubstantiated street had. >    Jack Peacock  >  >r >i   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Mar 2003 04:50:42 -0600e- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) J Subject: Re: Moving from Multinet to TCP/IP Services (LAT/NTY/TNA devices)3 Message-ID: <wIfa99CFo8iV@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  [ In article <3E680D35.8E7C0041@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:0 > Dave Gabele wrote:	 >> [snip] H >> Has anyone else experienced this or other issues moving from Multinet >> to TCP/IP Services? > 4 > IMO, moving away from Multinet is not recommended. > # > A good example of why is like so:n > I > If you have system running Mutlinet and another running UCX (nka TCP/IP C > Services for OpenVMS), install the VERB freeware and see how manyo% > commands Multinet installs vs. UCX.h  G You seem to assume that everyone will analyze the results with the sameoC value judgements. I think you should be more explicit in your post.    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Mar 2003 08:04:40 -0600a; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: Numeric usernames3 Message-ID: <3z7R9ZKqoL+j@eisner.encompasserve.org>,   In article <07103702F27FD411ACA30000F8085452044FF2BE@sagemshs001.fmc.sa.gov.au>, "Barratt, Chris (FMC)" <Chris.Barratt@fmc.sa.gov.au> writes:wL > The help for ADD username in authorise states that fully numeric usernamesL > should be avoided because numeric identifiers are not allowed and hence an0 > identifier for the username cannot be created. >  -H > What implications are there in a username not having the corresponding? > identifier created ?  (and hence in using numeric usernames).I  F    You get UIC format for the owner when you look at the files instead    of the identifier string.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 12:25:44 -0500. From: "Jerry Alan Braga" <jabraga@flanagan.ca>/ Subject: Open VMS Laser Printing and Overlayingg0 Message-ID: <WC4aa.36$7b6.82267@news.on.tac.net>  I Is it possible with VMS to create overlay printing of text of images thateJ will then print on a laser based printer.  We are trying to phase out some@ of our print printed forms and we were hoping that we could then  F 1. Scan the image and save on our VMS server as a binary image format.* 2. Create a text file via our applicationsJ 3. Merge these two objects and print to the laser printer where every page@ of the text file would overlay exactly on the scanning document.  L Can this be done with VMS only via DCPS and others or do I require a layered5 product of some sort.  And if so what are my options?t   Thanks in advancea   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 12:48:23 -0500- From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> 3 Subject: Re: Open VMS Laser Printing and Overlayingd6 Message-ID: <b4am1f$1tro4c$1@ID-141708.news.dfncis.de>   Jerry Alan Braga wrote:f< > Is it possible with VMS to create overlay printing of text	 of imagesJ8 > that will then print on a laser based printer.  We are	 trying to- >...  < JETFORMS is a great product for doing this. I recall hearing< that the company no longer actively looks for VMS customers,; but you could still buy the product if you insisted. If youe> have trouble locating the company then e-mail me privately and> I can send you the Toronto contact info that I had when I last= dealt with them 6 years ago. I just did a quick Google searchF= on the phone numbers I have but I did not get any hits, maybe  they are gone now.   -- Peter Weaver: Opinions are my own, and do not reflect the opinions of my	 employer,o> nor the company that it sub-contracts to, nor the company that it sub-contracts to.    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Mar 2003 12:56:16 -0600o From: briggs@encompasserve.org3 Subject: Re: Open VMS Laser Printing and Overlayingh3 Message-ID: <la$mamfQZAYu@eisner.encompasserve.org>r  a In article <WC4aa.36$7b6.82267@news.on.tac.net>, "Jerry Alan Braga" <jabraga@flanagan.ca> writes:2K > Is it possible with VMS to create overlay printing of text of images thatbL > will then print on a laser based printer.  We are trying to phase out someB > of our print printed forms and we were hoping that we could then > H > 1. Scan the image and save on our VMS server as a binary image format., > 2. Create a text file via our applicationsL > 3. Merge these two objects and print to the laser printer where every pageB > of the text file would overlay exactly on the scanning document.   This can be done.   C There are several techniques that can be used depending on how mucheD effort you wish to put in and how bulletproof you need the technique to be.  B If you are driving a PostScript printer via DCPS or otherwise, youE can invoke a setup module which will redefine the "showpage" operatori to incorporate your overlay.  E If you are driving a more conventional printer via DCPS or otherwise,lA you can use the /PAGE_SETUP feature available on the DEFINE /FORM7 command.  A If you want to be even more robust, you can write a user modified+? print symbiont using the PSM$ interface.  This can allow you to : insert a data stream of your choice at each page boundary.C If you wrote it to do so, this routine could sample print parameteroC P1 ($ PRINT /PARAMETER=OVERLAY1.TXT) and insert the selected image.gA If the overlay file contained some sort of page separator marker, > you could even get extremely fancy and overlay page one of the= overlay on page one of the output, page two of the overlay ont page two of the output, etc.  > I have used all of these techniques.  (Well, not the one where> you overlay page one on page one and page two on page two, but everything else).    	John Briggs   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Mar 2003 10:22:35 -080021 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)s. Subject: Re: OpenVMS in ads (was: [OT}:to Sue)= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0303071022.39555917@posting.google.com>   _ "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3E680A69.613C559@fsi.net>...tD > I am seriously considering offering a $1,000(US) cash reward for aJ > verifiable citation of a publication name, date and page number where an4 > OpenVMS ad appeared anytime in the last 18 months.  B http://h18002.www1.hp.com/alphaserver/ad/ shows 3 ads (they're forB Alphaservers, but include OpenVMS along with Tru64 in the ad text)( which have appeared in Fortune magazine.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 19:00:33 GMTb& From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com>Y Subject: Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marveland Alpha Retai 8 Message-ID: <mqnh6vsel43b1vpf9usq1g05nhpc4oc2kb@4ax.com>  E On Fri, 07 Mar 2003 17:07:14 +0000, Andrew Harrison SUNUK ConsultancyA. <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote:  C Typical Andrew useless response.  Still saying that I have to proveh@ that the GS160s perform well on some apps, while he still hasn'tF proven his contention that it won't perform well for any apps.  What a crock.  C I don't divulge any details about my customer.  However, there is a F web page for HP wins, and one that's kinda neat is at Bank of Austria.: They have 16-P GS160 systems.  check out the report below:  9 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/brochures/Bank-Austria/   = I am also aware of a Canadian government organiation that hasTA standardized on 8-P GS160s under Tru64 UNIX for Oracle Financials F apps, but I can't divulge any more info than that here.  Note, that isE "standardized on" above - they are impressed enough with it to use itu for multiple installations.o  E And I think I recall Kerry presenting some info on a customer who didrF a server consolidation using these systems, but I could be remembering< incorrectly (i.e., it may have been before GS160s were out).  @ If you're really interested, Andrew, we can possibly get you theB account manager's contact info for the Canadian Govt installation.D Or you could check your own account managers there since we beat Sun
 on that deal.V   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 17:07:14 +0000 ' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy Y Subject: Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marveland Alpha Retai3. Message-ID: <3E68D1C2.1020703@nospamn.sun.com>   jlsue wrote:G > On Wed, 05 Mar 2003 16:24:11 +0000, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy@0 > <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote: > - > Andrew you are a sick, sorry waste of time.7D > You completely ignore what's said and twist to change thiings intoF > strawman arguments that don't match what I've said and don't address > it.  > H > Your argument so far boils down to I couldn't possibly have seen happy > customers because:G >     a)  Our own docs say they're slower (though, only on *some* apps)p  5 Your marketing blurb does not say this and never did.i  E >     b)  You know for a fact how Oracle performs on all applicationsaD >     c)  You show TPC-C numbers that prove that it's slower for all > 	applications   I Of course TPC-C numbers don't prove that its slower for all applications.c  ) But you need to remember a few of things.g  : 1.	TPC-C, TPC-H, Oracle Applications and SAP are as far as6 	I know the only public benchmarks published by Compaq9 	to support the performance claims made for the GS160/320s; 	TPC-C wasn't a good choice, neither was TPC-H as it turned.9 	out and delivering over 30% lower throughput per CPU forn= 	Oracle Apps when compared with Sun or IBM while not directlye> 	comparable with older GS models (no older results) was hardly 	a vote of confidence.  @ 2.	Your claim that TPC-C doesn't prove anything wasn't supported> 	by one of you more vocal collegues Kerry Maine who repeatedly; 	tried to justify GS performance leadership claims based on9& 	TPC-C, why didn't you correct him????  C 3.	You have been unable to provide results for any other benchmarks<- 	other than TPC-C that support your argument.   H >     d)  And/or All applications are dbms applications (either that, or8 > 	you've re-scoped this discussion as another attempted9 > 	dodge in the hopes of boxing it into an area where youy > 	feel certain to win  B No of course all apps arn't DBMS apps but since you have failed to@ provide examples of apps that do work well and we have plenty of@ examples of DBMS apps not working well the ball is in your court	 not mine.m  = Try not to assume that I need to provide more data to supportr9 my claims when you have provide none that supports yours.l  D >     e)  I have not written down all the techy details of our happy5 > 	customers because you want them as proof that theyk > 	existE >     f)  Our marketing said something like "these systems are fasterl; > 	than our older systems"  - oh, gasp!  wonder of wonders, 8 > 	it's not always true, so how could they possibly make> > 	such statements.  Sun would certainly never make statements( > 	that aren't always true in all cases. >   ? Why wonder of wonders ?? Most vendors try to improve throughpute@ with each new server platform not make it worse. Of course thereD are some edge conditions with all manufacturers where a small numberE of apps don't go as fast as people expect. But OLTP DBMS applications C arn't exactly edge condition apps nor is Oracle a minority softwaree product.  G Nor does the unexpected lack of performance of a particular applicationpG when moving from a slower to an apparently faster platform generate thelE ohh thats the NUMA problem from engineering. Simply because by natureMH of you engineers response it wasn't unexpected at all, they expected it.   > Are you really that dense? > H > But your statements of "general" performance problems still don't wash( > because not all of the above are true. > F > Just fyi, I have worked with Oracle, both DBMSs in fact (though onlyH > as a dba on the Oracle Rdb product).  I'm fairly conversant in what it > does and how it works. >   B How interesting so when are you going to demonstrate you knowledge# sometime this decade would be nice.c   regards- Andrew Harrison-   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 08:22:44 +0100 (MET)=9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>u/ Subject: Oracle Magazine (was: RE: [OT}:to Sue)c; Message-ID: <01KT8IA232KI9FQH4P@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>e  C Can expound on "the Oracle magazine", its circulation and audience?_   I got this a while back:  J > From:	SMTP%"Oracle_Magazine.UM.A.2.1566@em10.net" 21-NOV-2002 23:22:33.= 41$ > Subj:	Renew Your FREE Subscription >=20G > It=92s time again to renew your FREE subscription to Oracle Magazine:t > http://blablabla: > If you=92ve renewed in the last month, thanks very much! >=20D > In addition to our regular columns, like Tips & Code, and Ask Tom, > coming issues will cover...  >=20 > =95	Oracle database options % > =95	Building disaster-proof systemsr4 > =95	Application integration aspects of Oracle 9iAS> > =95	The benefits of using XML in the database and who=92s=20 >         using XDBl6 > =95	Data warehousing and Business Intelligence tools > =95	And more!l >=20J > Please take a moment to make sure you keep receiving Oracle Magazine fo= rr" > the next year =96 renew today at > http://blablabla  F Folks, if you think VMS marketing is bad, consider the fact that thereF is no link to http://www.oracle.com/rdb/ from http://www.oracle.com/ .@ The magazine is a freebee with articles about various aspects ofG databases in general and Oracle in particular.  I don't think I've everc> seen Rdb mentioned there.  Also, check out these gems from theC registration form (where it asks questions about one's line of workj etc):=20  H  Other Oracle database (checkbox for Rdb---can't even MENTION the name!)  1  Digital Equipment Corp VAX VMS (checkbox for OS)a  I I don't mind Digital Equipment Corp, VAX is fine, no Open!  They could=20f have mentioned ALPHA, though!n  < The articles in the magazine are usually quite good, though.  K For the non-experts: Rdb is a relational database which was developed by=20mH DEC and later sold to Oracle (for something like less than one year's=20I revenue---I think the motivation was that by doing so, Oracle wouldn't=20NG see DEC as "the competition" and would offer THEIR database ("Oracle=20-H Classic") on VMS).  To this day, it has quite a "native VMS" look and=20 feel.e  E Those interested in Rdb might want to sign up for the low-traffic,=20 9 high--signal-to-noise, quite technical mailing list at=20i  I    http://www.jcc.com/Oracle%20Pages/jcc%20oracle%20Rdb%20home%20page.htmr   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 08:27:16 +0100 (MET)S9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> : Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants; Message-ID: <01KT8IWKIYFM9FQH4P@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   = > disagree.  You want to stop being a target for terrorism?  +> > sure the terrorists pay a price that excruciatingly painful.> > come back and do it again?  Make the pain even more painful. > get clued in eventually.  E I fail to see how this logic applies to a suicide terrorist (such as aB those who attacked the WTC, the suicide bombers in Palestine etc).   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 19:31:06 +1000e1 From: Paddy O'Brien <paddy.o'brien@tg.nsw.gov.au>s: Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants, Message-ID: <3E6866DA.4030009@tg.nsw.gov.au>   Phillip Helbig wrote:r= >>disagree.  You want to stop being a target for terrorism?  n> >>sure the terrorists pay a price that excruciatingly painful.> >>come back and do it again?  Make the pain even more painful. >>get clued in eventually. >  > G > I fail to see how this logic applies to a suicide terrorist (such as  D > those who attacked the WTC, the suicide bombers in Palestine etc).  B Yep, not too many suicide terrorists get a chance for a second go.  E Probably old, but one of these "bumper-sticker" things:  Why did the 3, Japanese Kamikase pilots wear crash helmets?   Regards, Paddy      G ***********************************************************************w  C "This electronic message and any attachments may contain privilegeds> and confidential information intended only for the use of the B addressees named above.  If you are not the intended recipient of C this email, please delete the message and any attachment and adviselB the sender.  You are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, 7 distribution, reproduction of this email is prohibited.c  A If you have received the email in error, please notify TransGrid lA immediately.  Any views expressed in this email are those of the t= individual sender except where the sender expressly and with tC authority states them to be the views of TransGrid.  TransGrid usesd> virus scanning software but excludes any liability for viruses contained in any attachment.  < Please note the email address for TransGrid personnel is now$ firstname.lastname@transgrid.com.au"  G ***********************************************************************l   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 11:04:49 +0000 ' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancyb: Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants. Message-ID: <3E687CD1.8000202@nospamn.sun.com>   Barry Treahy, Jr. wrote: >  >   I > You know, if the planes had crashed into the Louvre, the Eiffel Tower,  E > Munich, Moscow, there would be a lot less of this 'bleeding heart'  D > crap!  The fact that for over ten years, Saddam's atrocities have I > continued, these whiners would have us wait another ten years at which  K > point, who knows when a nuke or biological will be detonated on domestic S > soil.lG > Look back at history, WW I and WW II, it was us Yanks that saved the cI > Euro-ass from oppression and conquer.  Funny how what was good for one eJ > generation, country, and time period is no longer the right thing to do G > today, HA!  That's one thing about "Lib's," always a double standard aE > because their standards (if you call it that) are never based on a t5 > foundation or morality and unchanging principles...  >   G Actually thats historically inacurate. In WW II although the US enteredtF the war in 1941 it only did so because of the Japanese attack on PearlB Harbour, public sentiment up to then was that it was pretty much a european conflict.  @ Before Pearl Harbour the UK and its Colonial Allies and the Free@ French were the only people standing between Hitler and European@ domination. The defining battles which effectively ended HitlersA chances of doing this were Dunkirk which was effectively a defeato? for the Allies but one where the UK managed to salvage the bulka@ of their army that would otherwise have been destroyed in France, and the Battle of Britain where the RAF won.  ; The Battle for the Atlantic where convoys of food etc (paid : for by the UK and not given by the US) were shipped across< the Atlantic under German UBoat attack had also largely been won.  9 Two British inventions were key in both the Uboat war andr; the Battle of Britain, These were the Code Breaking programn8 at Bletchley Park which broke the Enigma Code and Radar.  D And the tide of the war changed largely due to two events the battleE of El Alamein which the British 8th army won which then paved the wayeC for the invasion of Italy and Hitler attacking Russia in June 1941.e  ; Many historians think that the latter and particualarly thed> battle of Stalingrad was the point at which Hitler effectively
 lost the war.   < And lets not forget the finacial motive here. In 1939 the Uk= was the worlds super power financially. By the end of the warn< in 1945 the Uk was effectively broke, gold reserves gone etc7 most of this wealth flowed west to the US which was then( only major economy to profit from WW II.  = Despite winning WW II the UK then suffered years of rationingp2 of basic goods after 1945 to help pay for the war.   Regardss Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 14:34:45 GMTl# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>e: Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease TyrantsH Message-ID: <962aa.66288$em1.50905@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  F "Phillip Helbig" <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message5 news:01KT8IWKIYFM9FQH4P@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com...h= > > disagree.  You want to stop being a target for terrorism?n@ > > sure the terrorists pay a price that excruciatingly painful.@ > > come back and do it again?  Make the pain even more painful. > > get clued in eventually. >eF > I fail to see how this logic applies to a suicide terrorist (such asD > those who attacked the WTC, the suicide bombers in Palestine etc).  F Let's just call them what they are....murderers who don't care if they die in the process.s   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 14:46:35 GMTn# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>v: Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease TyrantsH Message-ID: <fh2aa.66397$em1.16709@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  # "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy"-8 <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message( news:3E687CD1.8000202@nospamn.sun.com... >u >c > Barry Treahy, Jr. wrote: > >' > >r >oC > > You know, if the planes had crashed into the Louvre, the Eiffelr Tower,F > > Munich, Moscow, there would be a lot less of this 'bleeding heart'E > > crap!  The fact that for over ten years, Saddam's atrocities have D > > continued, these whiners would have us wait another ten years at whichdC > > point, who knows when a nuke or biological will be detonated on6 domestic	 > > soil..D > > Look back at history, WW I and WW II, it was us Yanks that saved thenF > > Euro-ass from oppression and conquer.  Funny how what was good for one^E > > generation, country, and time period is no longer the right thinga to dos? > > today, HA!  That's one thing about "Lib's," always a doublec standardF > > because their standards (if you call it that) are never based on a7 > > foundation or morality and unchanging principles...e > >r > A > Actually thats historically inacurate. In WW II although the US. entered>B > the war in 1941 it only did so because of the Japanese attack on PearlrD > Harbour, public sentiment up to then was that it was pretty much a > european conflict.  E In fairness, the US did enact the Lend-Lease program, but by the time E it was enacted the original purpose of which to have the US 'lend' 50 D old WW-I destroyers to the UK, it was already past the most criticalC time during which the UK could have used them. And as it turns out,rD those old US destroyers were in such need of refitting, that it took@ until 1943 until most of them were actually returned to service.    B > Before Pearl Harbour the UK and its Colonial Allies and the FreeB > French were the only people standing between Hitler and EuropeanB > domination. The defining battles which effectively ended HitlersC > chances of doing this were Dunkirk which was effectively a defeatdA > for the Allies but one where the UK managed to salvage the bulk.B > of their army that would otherwise have been destroyed in France. > and the Battle of Britain where the RAF won. >t= > The Battle for the Atlantic where convoys of food etc (paide< > for by the UK and not given by the US) were shipped across> > the Atlantic under German UBoat attack had also largely been > won. >y; > Two British inventions were key in both the Uboat war andc= > the Battle of Britain, These were the Code Breaking programt: > at Bletchley Park which broke the Enigma Code and Radar.  6 And UK invented sonar (ASDIC), first used during WW-I.    F > And the tide of the war changed largely due to two events the battleC > of El Alamein which the British 8th army won which then paved the  way E > for the invasion of Italy and Hitler attacking Russia in June 1941.  >h= > Many historians think that the latter and particualarly thee@ > battle of Stalingrad was the point at which Hitler effectively > lost the war.' >e> > And lets not forget the finacial motive here. In 1939 the Uk? > was the worlds super power financially. By the end of the warv> > in 1945 the Uk was effectively broke, gold reserves gone etc9 > most of this wealth flowed west to the US which was theb* > only major economy to profit from WW II. > ? > Despite winning WW II the UK then suffered years of rationinga4 > of basic goods after 1945 to help pay for the war.  D I think it is accurate, based on several books read long ago - underF Lend/Lease, the UK paid to the US every cent it was owed. On the otherE hand, the US granted non-repayable aid to Germany and Japan after thet war.   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Mar 2003 09:37:21 -0600 + From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)l: Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants3 Message-ID: <QzdDeXoPYU3D@eisner.encompasserve.org>c  _ In article <k5KcnfgRYbyzkfWjXTWcqg@metrocast.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:e >    > K > If you saw Nightline last night, you got a chilling view of where Dubya'seN > Imperial America thinks it is heading.  We know what's best for your countryL > and the world and will do whatever we think is necessary to make it happenI > (all of course from the best of motives), because we're America and youi# > can't do a damn thing to stop us.e >   ; 	Bill,  I respectfully disagree.  We had very similar nastygE 	exchanges here in cov leading up to the Afghanistan bombing/invasion2; 	to chase Al Qaeda.  Much of your fears never materialized.1  ? 	This campaign will be much larger (if and when it happens) andI= 	could be argued from many corners that it is very necessary.e  ? 	Bosnia was very necessary as that situation had descended intonC 	chaos.  Today there is still thousands of American troops there tooC 	maintain peace.  Post WWII there were thousands of American troops-B 	occupying and rebuilding post war Japan.  Today the forces alliedE 	against U.S. , Great Britain, France, etc.. are democratic societiesSC 	and much of our money and resources were used to make that happen.i  = 	To suggest there is some sort of hidden Imperialist American7A 	agenda, isn't born out by history.  Our methods are to establishE? 	democratic societies and as an added bonus pay for it with ourT  	own money.    B 	Historically, there are no examples (other than ours) that I know@ 	of whereby conquerers establish a democratic government (locals> 	electing their own officials) , pay to rebuild a society, and- 	don't in turn tax the locals to be repaid.  o   				Robn   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Mar 2003 09:56:25 -0600o+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) : Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants3 Message-ID: <6uo$ucekspCE@eisner.encompasserve.org>   w In article <01KT8IWKIYFM9FQH4P@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:z> >> disagree.  You want to stop being a target for terrorism?  ? >> sure the terrorists pay a price that excruciatingly painful.,? >> come back and do it again?  Make the pain even more painful.e >> get clued in eventually.c > G > I fail to see how this logic applies to a suicide terrorist (such as FD > those who attacked the WTC, the suicide bombers in Palestine etc).  = 	Somebody sponsors (pays for them) and they have a home base.c9 	Only a matter of time to find out who sponsors them and e< 	where they live.  No, you can't guard against nor retaliate$ 	against the occasional shoe bomber.   				Rob    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Mar 2003 07:33:49 -0800 . From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman): Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0303070733.4e2ec2e2@posting.google.com>I  d "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message news:<a5idnRM8DszJYvqjXTWcqg@metrocast.net>...= > "Alan E. Feldman" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote in messageo9 > news:b096a4ee.0303061429.13ad17fc@posting.google.com...o? > > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message - > news:<3E678A39.4FDC5595@vl.videotron.ca>...n >  > ...M > K > > > The USA should have learned its lessons already that it cannot imposea >  dramatic2N > > > changes. It must sow the seeds of democracy/capitalism and let them takeM > > > roots. They helped the Taliban push the Soviets out of Afghanistan, ando >  lookl > > > what happened. > > > L > > > They helped the Shah of Iran bring Iran into the 20th century and look >  whatSC > > > happened. Need I go on with all the south american examples ?  > > + > > What about WWII? Japan, Germany, Italy.  > L > It's not obvious what you think your point is:  WWII was hardly an exampleK > of the kinds of attempts to impose changes on other countries that JF was M > noting, it was a clear matter of self-defense (we didn't actually enter the 8 > war until we were attacked) and defense of our allies.  ? True. However, it shows that nation building can be successful. F Unfortunately, it also seems to show that it helps a lot if you defeat the target country in a war.   >  > >I) > > What about Eastern Europe and Russia?  > ' > Another non-sequitur to JF's comment.   E Here we did try to improve countries via the Cold War. The attempt toG0 contain Soviet Communism. And it worked! Mostly.  L > > > Note that Ironically, Iraq was good buddies with the USA and helped do >  theK > > > dirty work that the USA wanted, notably the war against Iran. The USA3
 >  and theG > > > rest of the world kept a blind eye to all the atrocities Iraq didl
 >  because itML > > > was convenient to all, especially when he weakened the radicals in the
 >  fringesK > > > of his country, helping prevent fundamentalism spread to neighbouring_
 >  countries.  > > F > > And how do you know that if the U.S. hadn't helped Iraq, that IranH > > would have become just as bad or even worse? You don't. It's easy toH > > criticize based on what happened, but you have to also consider whatF > > would have happened if other actions were taken or not taken. That% > > makes it more difficult to judge.C > B > Not really:  the third (and most ethical) option was simply lessK > convenient - taking a more direct hand ourselves rather than supporting a K > despicable regime just because it counter-balanced another regime that weeG > liked even less.  Of course, there's also the question of whether ourrM > dislike to the Iranian regime was justified in the first place:  true, theydI > had no love for us given our uncritical support of the Shah, but largerAM > fences have been mended when we made the effort (and the fact that the sametM > regime has slowly become less hostile anyway suggests that with some effortr( > faster progress could have been made).  ? I'm not saying we made the right decision. I'm just saying it'seC important to look at what might have happened had we done something'C else. People often say "Well, look what happened when we did X" but : don't consider what would have happened had we not done X.   > N > The bottom line is that when you lie down with dogs, you wake up with fleas:H > it's better to take the higher, if more difficult, road to begin with.   OK.0   >  > >1K > > > Iraq already has some seed of democracy. The regions are getting mores >  and moreyM > > > autonomy with their own governments. The King may still be uncontested,c	 >  but asnN > > > long as the trend continues, it is best to just help it instead of doing >  aJ > > > major upheaval. At one point, the king may become as relevant as the >  queen ofoK > > > england. He gets to continue to benefit from his castles etc, but thep >  rest<L > > > will be done by a less dictatorial nationla government with devolution
 >  for the$ > > > regions with greater autonomy. > > < > > At this pace, it'll take centuries to achieve democracy. > D > If it does, that's their business, not ours - though fostering theJ > development of democracy through peaceful and ethical means is certainly
 > acceptable.   F They are not a free people and therefore they cannot make it their own	 business.    >  > >nG > > > The USA may be bragging about having been in touch with plenty ofi
 >  oppositioneL > > > in Iraq who would be ready to take power once Saddam is removed. HINT: >  these$ > > > may just be worse than Saddam. > >y# > > Could be. Could be better, too.r > M > Not our business in either case:  any such concerns are the province of then0 > U.N., if it decides they need to be addressed.   The U.N. is a joke.    >  > > N > > > Look at the reforms Iran has gone through since the early radical 1980s. >  If itN > > > comes from the outside, any country will rebel. If it comes from within, >  then- > > > it takes roots and grows.4 > >0 > > It's going kind of slow. > H > Again, none of our business, save for providing etihcal encouragement.  @ It's still going kind of slow. My point was that JF seemed to beE saying "See, democracy is coming when we do it the "right way". All IeA was saying is that it was kind of slow, so slow, in fact, that itH could easily reverse.c   > / >  Also, the Afgahns didn't rebel when the U.S./ > > defeated the Taliban.v > L > Nor did they solidify into a nation.  And the tentative government that weN > installed is now criticizing us for not following through on our promises ofL > continued involvement for the second time:  just as we dropped AfghanistanL > like a hot potato after helping what later became the Taliban kick out theH > Soviets, we're 'way shy of the kind of support we promised the currentN > government, and they're specifically suggesting that if we do the same thingN > in Iraq (as Bush now seems to be suggesting in response to queries about how< > much all this will cost) there'll be major problems there.  & They're lucky we helped them at all.     >  > ...1 > L > > > Iraqis should decide, not americans or anyone else.  We, as foreigners >  totK > > > Iraq, can only complain about Iraq acting outside its own borders, ort >  usingN > > > banned weapons or torture against his own people. On the other hand, the >  USA, K > > > with the death penalty, is really in no position to argue that Saddamn	 >  has no ; > > > right to kill what his country defines as a criminal.t > > 6 > > Iraqis can't decide as long as Saddam is in power. > K > Yet again, the U.N. is the sole body responsible for deciding whether anys- > intervention to change this is appropriate.e   The U.N. is a joke.:   >  > >rL > > > Don't do onto others what you don't want done onto yourself. How would
 >  the USAH > > > have reacted if, during the 2000 slection/selection debacle, other >  countriesM > > > would not have recognised the nomination of Bush Jr as president of thep >  USAM > > > and requested the election considered failed with a new election held ?  > >w= > > Saddam wasn't elected, unless you believe that 100% krap.  > K > Leaving aside the question of whether Dubya was in fact elected, the facteN > remains that who runs Iraq is *none of our business* (any more than who runs< > the U.S. is anyone else's business, which was JF's point).  ' That depends on what that leader does. o   >  > ...l > J > > I'm not convinced either way on whether the U.S. should go to war withG > > Iraq. But you have to admit that Bush is risking his presidency big- > > time on this.W > K > I don't think so:  rather, I suspect that the expanded 'war on terrorism'yF > that seems to include anyone we don't like is the sole aspect of hisL > Administration that he believes may get him reelected.  If he can bull hisN > way through this, regardless of the price America pays economically, in lossK > of external friends, or in increased danger of terrorism, he may just gettL > the 'Murcan public to think he's a real leader; had he simply done what heI > originally (and correctly) set out to ("Hunt down those responsible and M > bring them to justice"), he'd have had to justify his reelection on - what?d  A I don't buy it. He is taking a big gamble. I think that has to besE factored in. If the war goes poorly, he'll be another Johnson. Do you  think he doesn't know that?e   >  > ...n > F > > > And while the USA media may have focused on the work that the UN
 >  inspectors N > > > hadn,t completed by 1998, they unfortunatly never focus on the amount of >  work-I > > > that they had succesfully done prior to 1998. Note that for all its 
 >  might, theeI > > > USA intelligence had been unaware of the Iraq nuclear efforts untilm >  after the" > > > war when inspectors came in. > >nI > > Some argue that in favor of getting him now before he makes nukes, orb > > more nukes.e > H > That argument ignores the increasing evidence that he has no remainingI > active nuclear program whatsoever - something which the inspectors feelaJ > they'll be in a position to state with reasonable certainty before long,C > even if the issues of chemical and biological weapons may be lessu > immediately verifiable.t  ? The West has consistently underestimated the status of Saddam's  nuclear program.   >  > ...e > E > > > 1-Inspectors costs are measured in millions. War is measured in  >  Billions.I > > > 2-Since the inspectors came in in 1991-1992, has Saddam used bannedl >  weapons ? > >eE > > Yes, but without the U.S. military buildup hanging over his head,oA > > Saddam wouldn't let the inspectors back in. So it's more than 
 > > millions.a > K > That's almost certainly true:  the pressure is appropriate, it's only thetN > fact that it was applied outside the auspices of the Security Council (whichG > thus constituted intimidation by a rogue state, however desirable itsrL > effect) which is not.  The *right* way to go about this would have been toN > gather up Security Council support and *then* apply the pressure rather thanL > announce to the world that we were going to whether they approved of it or > not. > L > Dubya's father proved more than capable of gathering up such consensus for0 > support in 1991.  But Dubya is not his father. >  > >fI > > > Until there is an internationally agreed upon process to remove onew >  country'sK > > > head of state, there is no legal means to do so, and the USA would go 
 >  againstM > > > international law if it wanted to kill a foreign head of state or forcev >  its& > > > replacement with military force. > >-E > > I think in some cases it would have been a wise thing to do, likeP' > > Germany and Japan in the late 30's.: > L > The more suitable course of action would have been to move against GermanyM > when it annexed Austria (though my history is a bit rusty and there *might*eM > have been sufficient support in the Austrian population to give that action1H > some legitimacy).  Or at the latest when it gobbled up the SudetenlandM > (which was as blatant an invasion as that of Kuwait).  Similar observationshH > apply to Japan's pre-WWII activities in China (and perhaps elsewhere -L > again, my knowledge of history isn't what it might be).  There were plentyI > of opportunities to curb the Axis using accepted norms of internationalrK > response (rather than, e.g., assassination) before the invasion of Poland:J > finally precipitated a declaration of war (though even that didn't causeN > *actual* war to break out:  it took the invasion of France and its neighbors > to do that, IIRC). > N > That's what makes comparing the present treatment of Iraq to the appeasementG > of the 1930s so ludicrous.  Anyone with even a smidgeon of historical G > knowledge understands that the two situations have nothing in common:hL > instead of appeasing Iraq, we acted decisively to reverse its actions, andG > all the discussion now centers on how to deal with the details of thee > aftermath. > % >  In this case, I don't really know.t > > M > > > For as much as everyone dislikes Hussein, there can be no precedent set7 >  forL > > > removing a leader you don't like. If the USA removes Hussein by force,
 >  what isL > > > to prevent China from removing the Taiwanese government and installing >  one; > > > that would be friendly to re-unification with China ?s > >aE > > I don't know, but I don't think they care much about precedent or  > > international law. > M > Is that just a guess, or do you consider it an informed opinion?  While ther  F I think they would take Taiwan if they thought the world wouldn't careA that much. I think they think of it purely as a practical matter.l  M > PRC jealously defends its prerogative to handle internal matters as it seesoI > fit, in the international sphere it has been at least a relatively gooda6 > citizen compared with its actions before, say, 1972.   > ...- > L > > > And one which the USA should have adopted on september 12. If you wnat
 >  to stopH > > > being a target for terrorism, you work hard to become friends with
 >  arabs, not K > > > raise their level of hatred against you. Europe knows this full well.W >  They are0N > > > not new to terrorism. Bush Jr was outclassed and is nowhere near capable >  ofs > > > handling this properly.u > >a0 > > We've actually helped the Arabs and Muslims. > K > The perception seems to be that our *net* effect has been negative, and I  > tend to agree with it. >  > > $2 billion/yr to Egypt.a > J > Still, or only while the Soviet Union was still around?  Of course, on aF > per-capita basis it doesn't begin to compare with our aid to Israel.  = According to what I've read, still. Israel gets $3B per year.i  - > > We helped the Muslims in Bosnia and such.o > M > Indeed we did, and got a reasonable amount of credit for it from the Muslimw > world.   HAH! You must be joking.   >  >  We spoke up for the
 > > Chechens.  > H > While the sentiment was doubtless appreciated, results are what count.  D Did anyone else speak up for them? Would you have us fight Russia to
 save them?   > 8 > > We helped Arabs kick the Soviets out of Afghanistan. > G > And then left the survivors to pick up the pieces as best they could,rM > clearly demonstrating that our actions were strategic rather than performedw$ > out of the goodness of our hearts.  $ They're lucky we helped them at all.   >  >  Wer0 > > helped Kuwait and Saudi Arabia against Iraq. > K > Yup.  And got at least some credit for that, though once again one has torJ > suspect that our motives were influenced at least as much by oil and theG > stability of the region in which it's found than by altruism (and the J > continuing presence of our troops near the holy cities helped cancel out > some of the goodwill).  ? Stability is important. It was also important not to let Saddama benefit from Kuwaiti oil.y   >  > > That's not enough? > K > No, it's not.  Not after decades of supporting regimes that oppress theiryF > citizenry (because doing so suits our own interests) and propping up  B So you're saying that the 9/11 attacks were justified? Are you for real?e  I > Israel's occupation and, worse, settlement activities for three decades 2 > despite the condemnation of the world community.  F It was the Arabs fault that there even is an occupation. And it is theF Palestinians' fault that they don't have their own country. They couldE have had one in 1948, but they went to war instead. From 1948 to 1967eF they didn't care that they didn't have their own country. If the ArabsB hadn't forced Israel into a war in 1967, there'd be no occupation.  A If the Palestinians had made as good an offer to Israel as IsraeltD under Ehud made to them, and if Israel responded with the equivalentC of an intifada, wouldn't you be pretty angry with Israel? Hmmm? Oh,rE but turn the tables and somehow you still find Israel to be at fault.s  E Yeah, there were complaints about the offer Ehud made to them. But it @ is controversial just what these problems were. Even so, had theD Palestinians accepted it it would have been the best thing to happenB to them in decades. And to respond to even a slightly flawed offerD with suicide bombers? This is to be commended or overlooked? What itC does is show what the Palestinians really are. They want to destroym: Israel. It still says so in the PLO's charter. IT SAYS SO!  C I have lost all sympathy for the Palestinians, though I have little E for the "settlers" who obviously don't help matters. I understand howpA people are not happy with the settlements. But it seems to me the $ Palestinians are much more at fault.  D Aid to Israel helps preserve the only democracy in the Middle East.    > 	 >  And wec/ > > get repaid for all this with 9/11 and such.  > N > That's exactly how we get repaid.  And our current approach to Iraq makes it- > appear that we're seeking more of the same.r  B I don't buy that. It was because of our percieved weakness that AlB Qaeda become bolder and bolder. And once they got started, I don't@ think it makes any difference what we do. They are already doingF everything they can to destroy us and will continue to do so unless we
 destroy them.m   >  > - bill   Alan E. Feldmann   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 11:31:58 -0500! From: VAXVMS <bounce@notmail.com>=: Subject: RE: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease TyrantsK Message-ID: <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E4903027BD0@rlghncst964.usps.gov>l   <David Dachtera said:>  B >Reagan was nothing more than the White House's version of CharlieG >McCarthy (or Pinoccio): a puppet who danced as his handlers pulled the.	 >strings.   H   I try *really, really hard* to stay out of these threads but there are just tE   some statements which cannot be allowed to pass without rebuttal:     H   Reagan, pre-Alzheimer's, was a much more complex and enigmatic person K   than is suggested by your statement:  even those who worked closely with eI   him said that they really never got to know the man- you got only *so*  8   close to him- and then there was this invisible wall.   K   I'd suggest that you read three books which will give you a more completewG   and objective picture of Reagan than the one which exists in popular  L   stereotypes (e.g. Clark Clifford's "amiable dunce" remark) and from which 0   you apparently have based your opinion of him:     ---eI   Reagan, In His Own Hand: The Writings of Ronald Reagan That Reveal His eI   Revolutionary Vision for America- by Ronald Reagan, Annelise Anderson, b6   George P. Shultz, Kiron K. Skinner, Martin Anderson    K   Skinner and Anderson were doing research in the Reagan archives when theyVH   stumbled across Reagan's original longhand notes from which his 1970s H   radio addresses had been prepared, and which had long been assumed to K   have been lost.   (Evidently the secretaries who typed up the final text eL   of these addresses realized that there might be historical significance to  J   the originals and so, contrary to Reagan's instructions, they preserved %   them instead of destroying them.)  s  J   Virtually every domestic and foreign policy of the Reagan presidency wasH   covered in these addresses; and Reagan's analysis of them was neither    simplistic nor formulaic.n     ---sL   Reagan's War: The Epic Story of His Forty Year Struggle and Final Triumph %   Over Communism, by Peter Schweizer    J   This book traces Reagan's views of Communism from his days in Hollywood D   until the fall of the USSR.  This book chronicles how his view of I   communism was consistent and based on the premise that communism was a II   moral evil, and therefore the only proper strategy for dealing with it nD   was neither appeasement or the seeking of what the Soviets called J   "peaceful co-existence", but active opposition by any means necessary.    I   At the beginning of the Reagan administration, the predominant thinkingsF   was that the spread of Communism was inevitable and unstoppable, and9   that negotiation was the only avenue left for the West.-  J   This book outlines how Reagan's viewpoint on communism was the basis of F   the Reagan Administration's execution of specific strategies in the I   political and economic arenas which led to the breakup of the USSR and o/   the liberation of millions in Eastern Europe.t     ---oI   Ronald Reagan: How an Ordinary Man Became an Extraordinary Leader - by >   Dinesh D'Souza    iL   One of the most distinguishing characterstics of the way D'Souza writes isD   that he has the ability to examine an issue where there are strong opinionsL   on both sides and dispassionately evaluate the strengths and weaknesses ofG   the arguments posited by both sides.  D'Souza does this again in thisn book:eI   he discusses in detail when and how liberals consistently misunderstoodr and G   underestimated Reagan, and then he outlines how conservatives *also* *)   misunderstood and underestimated him.  c  L   As a final statement, let me add that Reagan and Churchill, in my opinion,  H   are the pivotal figures of the twentieth century, and that we are all L   indebted to them both for the fact that totalitarianism is in retreat and 6   individual liberty is spreading across the globe.        WWWebb   >--s >David J. Dachtera >dba DJE Systems >http://www.djesys.com/   ) >Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:l  >http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ >========================   William W. Webb - EMS Operations) OpenVMS Systems Support - USPS DSSC Annexe, 4730 Hargrove Road, Raleigh, NC 27616-2874  > 919.325.7500 x4186  <FirstInitialLastNameAtEmailDotUSPSDotGov>   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Mar 2003 08:59:23 -0800y( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski): Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants< Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0303070558.45d7242@posting.google.com>  s "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message news:<kyT9a.61073$em1.29195@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>...r7 > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messager. > news:nH-dnQ7FXKL4T_qjXTWcog@metrocast.net... >  > Well said. > H > There are some smaller percentage of the populace that will oppose warF > under any circumstance, but by and large the majority will be of the
 > opinion: > , > War if necessary, but not necessarily war. > G > And the majority of world opinion, and dare I say US opinion, is thate< > war is not called for, nor is it justifiable at this time.  = not called for ... Iraq was probably behind both the OK. cityS> and NY attacks, are now working to arm terrorists with poisons< and nuclear suitcases, and you say sit on our butts and wait7 to be nuked?  We don't need the UN to weigh in when our,< natioanl security is at stake ... glad you aren't president!   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Mar 2003 08:59:28 -0800e( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski): Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0303070558.25c14065@posting.google.com>t  s "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message news:<kyT9a.61073$em1.29195@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>...p7 > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message . > news:nH-dnQ7FXKL4T_qjXTWcog@metrocast.net... >  > Well said. > H > There are some smaller percentage of the populace that will oppose warF > under any circumstance, but by and large the majority will be of the
 > opinion: > , > War if necessary, but not necessarily war. > G > And the majority of world opinion, and dare I say US opinion, is thatf< > war is not called for, nor is it justifiable at this time.  = not called for ... Iraq was probably behind both the OK. cityt> and NY attacks, are now working to arm terrorists with poisons< and nuclear suitcases, and you say sit on our butts and wait7 to be nuked?  We don't need the UN to weigh in when ourt< national security is at stake ... glad you aren't president!   ------------------------------  ! Date: Fri, 07 Mar 03 12:00:11 GMTh From: jmfbahciv@aol.com % Subject: Re: portability was/is: unixh+ Message-ID: <b4a48i$ec$24@bob.news.rcn.net>f  & In article <3e678919$1@news.ucsc.edu>,+    eugene@cse.ucsc.edu (Eugene Miya) wrote:oI >In article <b47ct6$ahj$11@bob.news.rcn.net>,  <jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote: ( >>In article <3e6645a5$1@news.ucsc.edu>,- >>   eugene@cse.ucsc.edu (Eugene Miya) wrote:r- >>>In article <b45f4m$6he$0@205.153.154.199>,r0 >>>Patrick Scheible  <kkt@itchy.serv.net> wrote:H >>>>While converting wouldn't be painless, it would be easier than, say,# >>>>converting from TOPS-10 to VMS.  >>>e? >>>That depends on how the application was coded under TOPS-10.yJ >>>If the application programmer was trying to be too efficient (in memoryG >>>[packed characters] and speed) and had only experience on the DEC-10 F >>>architectures (some called that arrogance), that would be difficultC >>>(I've had my share [SPICE] of 36-bit to 32-bit conversions whichc >>>I care not to repeat).a >>>lE >>>If the application programmer was experienced in different machine0J >>>architectures, and coded for portability, a port might not be too hard. >>E >>Or if the app programmer RTFM, he could have written portable code.rA >>We did document extensions to the standard.  IIRC, most of themoB >>had to do with I/O.  Some of those little OSes didn't believe in >>disks and directories ;-). >i > 7 >That's why I worded my comment to Patrick in that way.a >.B >The temptation in that era was just too much for most programmersH >to pass up getting the fifth character into storage.  As programmers weF >got too cute packing characters (just look at MS/Word) because memory  >was so expensive in those days.  C I don't we got extremely cute.  If we had, I'd know RADIX50 insteadr  of octal character bit patterns.   >jE >I/O isn't the only problem (as another pointed out the I/O example).2$ >4 bits isn't trivial in some cases.  ; Of course it's not trivial but that why there was a libraryd@ with each compiler.  In the case of FORTRAN, a lot of math minds0 built those libraries to do the "correct" thing.   >r/ >Could be worse.  Could have been 6 characters a  > Six characters might have elimintated any thought of filenames with spaces as legal.a   > ..in a 36-but Univac wordr3 >or 10 characters in a 60-bit CDC word like Pascal.a >  /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.u   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 11:51:08 GMT 0 From: Nigel Barker <nigel@removetomailme@hp.com>2 Subject: Re: Probleme with Java and OpenVMS V7.3-18 Message-ID: <cd1h6vc3ghqc5re3jg8ss3aubseogkigra@4ax.com>  N On Fri, 21 Feb 2003 15:44:42 +0100, Nigel Barker <nigel@removetomailme@hp.com> wrote:  K >On Thu, 20 Feb 2003 17:16:25 GMT, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)g >wrote:i >,M >>Where PTHREAD is not listed in the JAVA doc as a requirement (but installed N >>here anyway ;-) but ACRTL wants SYS-V0200 and that is dangerous/malicious... >>J >>Nigel: Do you have a recommendation for us on this JAVA/SYS-V0200 case ? >eQ >Ahhh. SYS-V0200 not recommended for uniprocessor systems. The official answer isaP >to wait for SYS-V0300 (out real soon now). The unofficial answer is that I haveM >had it installed on my uniprocessor workstation for months without problems.   5 Just a reminder that SYS-V0300 has now been released.U   -- Nigel Barker Live from the sunny Cote d'Azurl   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 15:58:47 GMTe+ From: Joseph Norris <jozefn@bolt.sonic.net>y. Subject: Programmatic telnet taking forever!!!E Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.40.0303070755210.31983-100000@bolt.sonic.net>    Group,  ? I have an application that logs into a vms box from a linux boxwF to run some vms programs... that's the short story. The longgggg story> is that the login takes about 30-45 seconds some times longer.  H I begin to think that the vms box is waiting for me to give it somethingC that will tell it that this is not a normal telnet session and thenhC after a while it figures this is true and allows my script to logon & with proper user/password combination.  A Can anyone tell me what it wants and what I have to pass to it toU satisfy its need?t  $ Thanks to all - from a total newbie.    ; #Joseph Norris (Perl - what else is there?/Linux/CGI/Mysql) I print @c=map chr $_+100,(6,17,15,16,-68,-3,10,11,16,4,1,14,-68,12,1,14,8, C -68,4,-3,-1,7,1,14,-68,-26,11,15,1,12,4,-68,-22,11,14,14,5,15,-90);h   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 16:18:37 -0000* From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>2 Subject: Re: Programmatic telnet taking forever!!!+ Message-ID: <b4agou$lvm@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>w  8 "Joseph Norris" <jozefn@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message? news:Pine.LNX.4.40.0303070755210.31983-100000@bolt.sonic.net...   J > I begin to think that the vms box is waiting for me to give it somethingE > that will tell it that this is not a normal telnet session and thenfE > after a while it figures this is true and allows my script to logonp( > with proper user/password combination.  E There isn't enough information here to help, really. Firstly, version A information for both VMS and your IP stack  is helpful. Secondly,oD are you using a proper Telnet client library, or just hacking with a? socket connection? If so, does it handle option negotiation and  stuff properly?   < Usually the best way to debug an unexpected network delay is? to fire up a network analyser (Ethereal is pretty good). If thet9 timestamps suddenly jump, look at the packets immediately  before the delay.t  = Unless someone else is inspired, I'll think you'll have to do76 some digging first, and come back with a more specific query. Good luck!e   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 09:22:57 -0700e+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com>z2 Subject: Re: Programmatic telnet taking forever!!!' Message-ID: <3E68C761.1080009@MMaz.com>s   Joseph Norris wrote:   >Group,c >l@ >I have an application that logs into a vms box from a linux boxG >to run some vms programs... that's the short story. The longgggg storyt? >is that the login takes about 30-45 seconds some times longer.o >hI >I begin to think that the vms box is waiting for me to give it something D >that will tell it that this is not a normal telnet session and thenD >after a while it figures this is true and allows my script to logon' >with proper user/password combination.f >uB >Can anyone tell me what it wants and what I have to pass to it to >satisfy its need? >  >    >u The VMS box is probably having a hard time resolving your IP and the timeout for three failed lookups would equate to about 30 seconds...d  V Check to make sure that your VMS can resolve the domains and IP's of your Linux box...   Barryo   -- o  @ Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIO   A E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028d   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 19:31:15 +0100e From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>% Subject: Re: Questions on SSH for VMSA& Message-ID: <3E68E573.3060102@home.nl>   Thanks for the update info Leo.E  P However you did not address the "/FLAG=TCPIP" problem that comes up when trying  to configure the SSH server.  J I installed the new executables expecting/hoping that it was resolve this  problem too, but it does not.e   Did I miss something ?   Regards, Dirk   Leo Demers wrote:tN > Folks this will be up on the webpage shortly put it can't hurt to have it in
 > two places.  > 	 >   - Leo6 >  > INSTALLATION NOTE: > E > Corrections for Installing hp TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS SSHv2 EAKA >  > Description: > > > After installing the SSHv2 EAK, perform the following steps: > J > 1. The SSHv2 EAK kit fails to extract the updated templates text library6 > (TCPIP$TEMPLATES.TLB) from the kit. To correct this: > F > a. Extract the updated template text library from the SSHv2 EAK kit: > B > $ PRODUCT EXTRACT FILE TCPIP_SSH /SELECT=TCPIP$TEMPLATES.TLB_SSH > % > b. Copy the templates text library:y > G > $ COPY TCPIP$TEMPLATES.TLB_SSH SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]TCPIP$TEMPLATES.TLBs >  >  > N > 2. The updated TCPIP$UCP.EXE image must be installed as a known image beforeG > any SSHv2 EAK components can be configured using the TCPIP$CONFIG.COM  > command procedure. > I > To install the updated TCPIP$UCP.EXE image, choose one of the followingn
 > methods: > : >  On systems where network availability is not critical: > # > $ @SYS$STARTUP:TCPIP$SHUTDOWN.COMm" > $ @SYS$STARTUP:TCPIP$STARTUP.COM >  > or > 6 >  On systems where network availability is critical: > 4 > $ INSTALL REPLACE SYS$COMMON:[SYSEXE]TCPIP$UCP.EXE4 > $ INSTALL REPLACE SYS$COMMON:[SYSMSG]TCPIP$MSG.EXE >  >  > -- > Leo Demers" > OpenVMS Security Product Manager > Leo_dot_Demers_at_HP_dot_COM( > <dittman@dittman.net> wrote in message3 > news:kmt9a.27992$ES3.3388@nwrddc04.gnilink.net...< > ! >>Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> wrote:i >>E >>>If the PCSI kit is the same as we got this morning, then please be  >  > advised that > D >>>there are some small errors in the installation and configuration > 
 > procedures.t > 2 >>>In the kit is a new version of the text library > " > sys$library:TCPIP$TEMPLATES.TLB, > I >>>it is named TCPIP$TEMPLATES.TLB_SSH. The installation procedure should  >  > copy thise > J >>>file as a new version to sys$library, but does not do so. You will have >  > to > K >>>extract the file from the PCSI kit by hand, and place it in sys$library.p > 	 > Do thisa > " >>>before trying to configure SSH. >>I >>To clarify, extract TCPIP$TEMPLATES.TLB_SSH and place it in SYS$LIBRARYm > 	 > renamed  >  >>to TCPIP$TEMPLATES.TLB >> >>K >>>The configuration routine of the server also contains a small error. The  > 	 > servicet > G >>>SSH is defined (TCPIP SET SERVICE etc.) with the option /FLAG=TCPIP.l > 
 > This optionf > E >>>is invalid. Define the service manually without this option beforet > 
 > configuringy > # >>>the SSH server, and all is well.s >>B >>I removed the /flag=tcpip from TCPIP$CONFIG.COM and that worked. >>-- >>Eric Dittman >>dittman@dittman.nete >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 10:32:16 -0500o& From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com> Subject: Re: RMS version numbert8 Message-ID: <6meh6v05m6c7o6tqocjvcgo8dcipiocsgm@4ax.com>  A On Thu, 6 Mar 2003 09:09:55 -0800, Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>i wrote:  / >F$SEARCH() followed by F$PARSE() should do it.  >a  A One problem with this is that it could create a race condition if C there are multiple simultaneous processes running the same program,aB creating a file with the same name.  I.e., a) p1 opens/creates the= file, then b) issues the f$search.... it's possible for p2 tocF open/create a new file in between steps a & b above.  That would cause2 the f$search to return the incorrect file version.  F I'd much rather have each process create a file with the process ID inB the file name so that it is unique enough to avoid these problems.C However, if it is not really a "temporary" file, i.e., it has to be 1 referenced later on, that might not be an option.    ------------------------------  ! Date: Fri, 07 Mar 03 09:35:36 GMT  From: jmfbahciv@aol.comsY Subject: Re: SIMH 2.10-4 released: major bug fixes to PDP-8, PDP-11, VAX, PDP-15, Interdaa* Message-ID: <b49rpf$ec$1@bob.news.rcn.net>  = In article <667a2609.0303061424.30dae301@posting.google.com>,b5    dseagrav@lunar-tokyo.net (Daniel Seagraves) wrote:eC >If I try to run RSX20F under the pdp11 simulator, it segfaults. NooC >debugging at the moment because I'm busy, just passing this along.   @ Hmmm..should it be able to run?  It's development was done on an 11/70.     /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.e   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 11:33:07 GMTd) From: P.Lj <plj@NOSPAMbyron.ext.telia.se>oY Subject: Re: SIMH 2.10-4 released: major bug fixes to PDP-8, PDP-11, VAX, PDP-15, Interdah8 Message-ID: <5o0h6vk7insuf4oilun0vvl6jtaheseais@4ax.com>  Q >On 6 Mar 2003 14:24:49 -0800, dseagrav@lunar-tokyo.net (Daniel Seagraves) wrote:y >sD >>If I try to run RSX20F under the pdp11 simulator, it segfaults. NoD >>debugging at the moment because I'm busy, just passing this along.   On VMS and SIMH 2.10-0 I get:a   SAV -- *Fatal* -- No DTE-20s   After: sim> att rx0 RSX20A.DSK  sim> set cpu 18b
 sim> boot rx0e   /P.Ljh   ------------------------------  ! Date: Fri, 07 Mar 03 12:22:15 GMTe From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Y Subject: Re: SIMH 2.10-4 released: major bug fixes to PDP-8, PDP-11, VAX, PDP-15, Interda + Message-ID: <b4a5hu$jgr$1@bob.news.rcn.net>   8 In article <5o0h6vk7insuf4oilun0vvl6jtaheseais@4ax.com>,-    P.Lj <plj@NOSPAMbyron.ext.telia.se> wrote:fL >>On 6 Mar 2003 14:24:49 -0800, dseagrav@lunar-tokyo.net (Daniel Seagraves)  wrote: >>E >>>If I try to run RSX20F under the pdp11 simulator, it segfaults. NohE >>>debugging at the moment because I'm busy, just passing this along.u >e >On VMS and SIMH 2.10-0 I get: >  >SAV -- *Fatal* -- No DTE-20  < That's not the simulator's fault; that's supposed to happen. >e >After:  >sim> att rx0 RSX20A.DSK >sim> set cpu 18bt >sim> boot rx0  8 If there's no DTE-20, you got serious hardware problems.   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Mar 2003 09:15:11 -0800y1 From: dseagrav@lunar-tokyo.net (Daniel Seagraves) Y Subject: Re: SIMH 2.10-4 released: major bug fixes to PDP-8, PDP-11, VAX, PDP-15, InterdaI= Message-ID: <667a2609.0303070629.566659d0@posting.google.com>i  i P.Lj <plj@NOSPAMbyron.ext.telia.se> wrote in message news:<5o0h6vk7insuf4oilun0vvl6jtaheseais@4ax.com>...g   > On VMS and SIMH 2.10-0 I get:  >  > SAV -- *Fatal* -- No DTE-20  >  > After: > sim> att rx0 RSX20A.DSKa > sim> set cpu 18b > sim> boot rx0d  1 That's what's supposed to happen without a DTE20.   B I get a segfault under NetBSD/sparc - I'll try again on Linux/i386? later and see if it's something specific to this configuration.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 17:47:19 -0000o+ From: m_thompson@ids.net (Michael Thompson) Y Subject: Re: SIMH 2.10-4 released: major bug fixes to PDP-8, PDP-11, VAX, PDP-15, Interdan/ Message-ID: <v6hmp7fr953r92@corp.supernews.com>d  O So we just add the DTE20 emulation to SIMH and have it talk to a KL10 emulator  L through IPC or a socket? Very cool, we could have 4 PDP11 emulators running + RSX20F connected to a single KL10 emulator.l  > In article <667a2609.0303061424.30dae301@posting.google.com>,   dseagrav@lunar-tokyo.net says... >oC >If I try to run RSX20F under the pdp11 simulator, it segfaults. NolC >debugging at the moment because I'm busy, just passing this along.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 16:07:00 +0000e) From: Antonio Carlini <arcarlini@iee.org>b/ Subject: Re: Simulating LAT protocol on Windowsu$ Message-ID: <3E68C3A4.40102@iee.org>   Danny wrote: > Hi,  > F > I want to know if it is possibe to write a Windows application whichE > will be able to receive data in the LAT protocol (i.e. act as a LATtB > server), and if so, what interface / API can be used to do this.  4 I don't use VTstar any more, but IIRC it can do LAT.  % Getting hold of it is another matter.n   Antonion     -- e   --   ---------------s- Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.org    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 09:12:21 GMTw) From: Charles Richmond <richmond@ev1.net>d Subject: Re: unixt' Message-ID: <3E687E2C.9825A3ED@ev1.net>s   Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote:i > 5 >        [snip...]        [snip...]         [snip...]  > H >         Hmm - It's a scary thought that the PC and/or x86 architecture% > might one day induce fond memories.s > C Yeah, "fond memories" like two old war buddies remembering D-Day...e   --  ? +-------------------------------------------------------------+n? |     Charles and Francis Richmond     <richmond@plano.net>   |e? +-------------------------------------------------------------+t   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 09:14:18 GMT ) From: Charles Richmond <richmond@ev1.net>  Subject: Re: unixt' Message-ID: <3E687EA1.AEF4CFCB@ev1.net>c   Bob Koehler wrote: > { > In article <1046960197.849918@saucer.planet.gong>, "Rupert Pigott" <roo@dark-try-removing-this-boong.demon.co.uk> writes:i > > < > > Oddly the VAX & IA-64 may have a lot in common, although: > > the IA-64's political impact is far larger from what I
 > > can tell.h > F >    Never underestimate the impact of the VAX.  For over a decade theF >    rule of thumb was:  if you had to do a computer based system, you? >    went out and bought a VAX.  Even IBM and Microsoft did it.( > I >    Sadly, the VAX was also instrumental to the evolution and popularityuF >    of UNIX.  Of those folks at Berkely hadn't ported it to a VAX the& >    rest of might never have seen it! >t; I remember seeing a picture of one of the game authors from : Infocom that was being interviewed for a magazine article.9 This was in the 1980's, and in the background there was ad DEC-20.o   --  ? +-------------------------------------------------------------+r? |     Charles and Francis Richmond     <richmond@plano.net>   |a? +-------------------------------------------------------------+t   ------------------------------  ! Date: Fri, 07 Mar 03 11:43:05 GMTo From: jmfbahciv@aol.com  Subject: Re: unixe+ Message-ID: <b4a38g$ec$21@bob.news.rcn.net>f  ' In article <3E687E2C.9825A3ED@ev1.net>,e-    Charles Richmond <richmond@ev1.net> wrote:g >Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: >> t6 >>        [snip...]        [snip...]         [snip...] >> oI >>         Hmm - It's a scary thought that the PC and/or x86 architectureh& >> might one day induce fond memories. >>  D >Yeah, "fond memories" like two old war buddies remembering D-Day... >  But didn't we win that one?c   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 10:05:55 -0500n* From: "J. Clarke" <jclarke@nospam.invalid> Subject: Re: unix ; Message-ID: <pan.2003.03.07.15.05.53.725805@nospam.invalid>w  3 On Fri, 07 Mar 2003 11:43:05 +0000, jmfbahci wrote:b  ) > In article <3E687E2C.9825A3ED@ev1.net>,u/ >    Charles Richmond <richmond@ev1.net> wrote:a >>Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote:t >>> 7 >>>        [snip...]        [snip...]         [snip...]l >>> J >>>         Hmm - It's a scary thought that the PC and/or x86 architecture' >>> might one day induce fond memories.a >>> E >>Yeah, "fond memories" like two old war buddies remembering D-Day...y >> > But didn't we win that one?o  G Yeah, but that's not a lot of consolation to the ones that are still on 
 the beach.   > /BAH > ) > Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.o   -- i --John- Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot neta# (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)r   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 16:18:01 GMT ) From: Charles Richmond <richmond@ev1.net>c Subject: Re: unix ' Message-ID: <3E68E1EF.CA7842E3@ev1.net>i   jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > ) > In article <3E687E2C.9825A3ED@ev1.net>,t/ >    Charles Richmond <richmond@ev1.net> wrote:s > >Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: > >>8 > >>        [snip...]        [snip...]         [snip...] > >>K > >>         Hmm - It's a scary thought that the PC and/or x86 architecture0( > >> might one day induce fond memories. > >>G > > Yeah, "fond memories" like two old war buddies remembering D-Day...  > >s > But didn't we win that one?m >t> I believe that we will win this one too...but there is already: great suffering and gnashing of teeth over Mi$uck and x86.   -- o? +-------------------------------------------------------------+t? |     Charles and Francis Richmond     <richmond@plano.net>   |I? +-------------------------------------------------------------+e   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 16:24:14 GMTi) From: Charles Richmond <richmond@ev1.net>o Subject: Re: unix & Message-ID: <3E68E364.538F677@ev1.net>   "J. Clarke" wrote: > 5 > On Fri, 07 Mar 2003 11:43:05 +0000, jmfbahci wrote:t > + > > In article <3E687E2C.9825A3ED@ev1.net>,r1 > >    Charles Richmond <richmond@ev1.net> wrote:i > >>Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote:  > >>>t9 > >>>        [snip...]        [snip...]         [snip...]e > >>>eL > >>>         Hmm - It's a scary thought that the PC and/or x86 architecture) > >>> might one day induce fond memories.a > >>>aG > >>Yeah, "fond memories" like two old war buddies remembering D-Day...t > >> > > But didn't we win that one?i > I > Yeah, but that's not a lot of consolation to the ones that are still on  > the beach. > # In Flanders fields the poppies blow   Between the crosses, row on row,# That mark our place; and in the sky % The larks, still bravely singing, fly ! Scarce heard amid the guns below. >                                                                We are the Dead. Short days ago % We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow, % Loved and were loved, and now we lie,  In Flanders fields.o>                                                               ! Take up our quarrel with the foe:r" To you from failing hands we throw$ The torch; be yours to hold it high.! If ye break faith with us who dier' We shall not sleep, though poppies grow  In Flanders fields.           -- Wilfred Owen    E Okay, so this is World War I, but there are "crosses row on row" nearo the beaches of Normandy too...>                                                                  -- t? +-------------------------------------------------------------+h? |     Charles and Francis Richmond     <richmond@plano.net>   |p? +-------------------------------------------------------------+e   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 09:17:13 GMTE) From: Charles Richmond <richmond@ev1.net>  Subject: Re: VAX again: unix' Message-ID: <3E687F50.49492892@ev1.net>c   Eugene Miya wrote: > 5 > In article <8Sp2iWKTI3Mj@eisner.encompasserve.org>,h< > Bob Koehler <koehler@eisner.aspm.encompasserve.org> wrote: > > 3 > >     [snip...]        [snip...]        [snip...]i > >.J > >   Sadly, the VAX was also instrumental to the evolution and popularityG > >   of UNIX.  Of those folks at Berkely hadn't ported it to a VAX thei' > >   rest of might never have seen it!c > G > Gee, others thought it was the failure of various DEC code word named - > architectures to keep track of performance.w > J > I can see it now ... disgruntled VMS users build a cyborg Terminator andD > send it back in time to bump off a young Bill Joy or Bob Fabry.... > ? I can see disgruntled PDP-10 and DEC-20 users building a cyborgw= Terminator to go back and take out Palmer and Dave Cutler. Of < course, maybe they could have talked JMF and TW into a more > healthful life style too!!! That would make it a double win!!!   -- p? +-------------------------------------------------------------+h? |     Charles and Francis Richmond     <richmond@plano.net>   |e? +-------------------------------------------------------------+    ------------------------------  ! Date: Fri, 07 Mar 03 11:48:55 GMTu From: jmfbahciv@aol.com  Subject: Re: VAX again: unix+ Message-ID: <b4a3je$ec$22@bob.news.rcn.net>w  & In article <3e678c37$1@news.ucsc.edu>,+    eugene@cse.ucsc.edu (Eugene Miya) wrote: 4 >In article <8Sp2iWKTI3Mj@eisner.encompasserve.org>,; >Bob Koehler <koehler@eisner.aspm.encompasserve.org> wrote:e/ >>   Never underestimate the impact of the VAX.w >a >True.G >However for leverage, the PDP-11, the PDP-8, and the PDP-1 on one handt@ >and the PDP-6/PDP-10/DEC-20 had greater leverage in their time.  D I don't consider the 36-bit line to have had greater leverage.  I do= consider that it had greater exposure.  Tens of thousands of c; kiddies walking up to a terminal and using the system as ifo? it was his own personal machine.  How do you think Billyboy got = his PC idea?  The minis gathered around the big iron to feed u it what they collected.o     <snip interesting scifi idea>a   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.h   ------------------------------  ! Date: Fri, 07 Mar 03 11:54:48 GMT  From: jmfbahciv@aol.come Subject: Re: VAX again: unix+ Message-ID: <b4a3uf$ec$23@bob.news.rcn.net>l  ' In article <3E687F50.49492892@ev1.net>,o-    Charles Richmond <richmond@ev1.net> wrote:f >Eugene Miya wrote:e >> n6 >> In article <8Sp2iWKTI3Mj@eisner.encompasserve.org>,= >> Bob Koehler <koehler@eisner.aspm.encompasserve.org> wrote:s >> > m4 >> >     [snip...]        [snip...]        [snip...] >> >K >> >   Sadly, the VAX was also instrumental to the evolution and popularity H >> >   of UNIX.  Of those folks at Berkely hadn't ported it to a VAX the( >> >   rest of might never have seen it! >> eH >> Gee, others thought it was the failure of various DEC code word named. >> architectures to keep track of performance. >> iK >> I can see it now ... disgruntled VMS users build a cyborg Terminator andrE >> send it back in time to bump off a young Bill Joy or Bob Fabry....  >>@ >I can see disgruntled PDP-10 and DEC-20 users building a cyborg> >Terminator to go back and take out Palmer and Dave Cutler. Of= >course, maybe they could have talked JMF and TW into a more e >healthful life style too!!! h  ' Nah, if I couldn't do it, nobody could.   & > ..That would make it a double win!!!  < I don't think that would have helped.  I have wondered about> not becoming a public company.  The rot started from MPOV when> I heard that "market" pressures forced DEC to reduce their R&D= budget to be "more in line with its competitors".  There wereb= enough egomaniacs to keep Cutler in line way back then.  If In? could say "no" to him and get away with it there were certainlyd! others who routinely did it, too.a   /BAH   >r  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.i   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Mar 2003 09:17:55 -0800d) From: gary.morin@emergis.com (Gary Morin)aL Subject: VAXStation 4000-90 without graphics card will not load VMS licenses= Message-ID: <4f886957.0303070634.3c205e92@posting.google.com>D  A I have a VAXStation 4000-90 that I use without the display tube.  A Every time I boot the box it reports a console level error on theoF graphics board.  Since I was tired of geeting the errors I removed theC graphics card and when I rebooted all of the VMS licenses failed tod; load.  When I selected the "license requirements" option insC vmslicense.com it came back with a list that showed that no licenseeD group is valid.  When I put the card back in everything loaded but I1 still got the hardware boot error on the console.w  B Is there any switch or jumper that will tell this box that it is a5 valid VAX system without the graphics card installed?n  	   -- Garyi   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 11:11:11 +0000v' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancyi! Subject: Re: VMS Backup solutionse. Message-ID: <3E687E4F.6010102@nospamn.sun.com>   Jeff Cameron wrote:"G > On 3/6/03 7:07 AM, in article 3E676435.70002@nospamn.sun.com, "Andrew:L > Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote: >  > 8 >>And the Veritas Netbackup was able to recover the data9 >>because it keeps two copies on two separate tapes whicha; >>would also be the only way that OpenVMS backup could haveh >>recovered the same data. >  > F > While this is true, no software product can protect against a singleE > Copy of a backup saveset and physical destruction of the tape. YourtF > point is well taken that Veritas can help by making a second copy ofG > the saveset on another tape. You can also make physical copies of VMSgF > backup savesets, and complete multi-volume copies without backing up@ > twice with VMS. So in this area, VMS can do what Veritas does. > B > The underlying point is that when it comes to a single copy of aA > Saveset on a single tape, VMS BACKUP can handle many tape blocktC > destructions within the saveset without loss of backup integrity,c > and this, Veritas cannot do. >   1 Fine I will take you word for it. However we haver/ only had one tape failure and that was a jammedi0 cartridge which OpenVMS BACKUP would have failed to recover.T  2 So at least of the customer I am working with this2 would not appear to be a huge advantage, much more3 important to have multiple copies, which you shouldt have anyway.   regardst Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Mar 2003 14:23:30 GMT 6 From: DAVISM@er6.eng.ohio-state.edu (Michael T. Davis)) Subject: VMS Mail wastebasket folder namea: Message-ID: <b4aa12$qtd$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>  G 	We're running under OpenVMS v7.2-1.  I have just noticed some behaviorsN which I'm unsure is by design, or not.  When you set the name of a wastebasketL folder using mixed-case, the Mail API translates this to all upper-case, andM writes this information to the mail file.  (Note that the wastebasket name isbI set per mail file, not per user.)  Is there a reason for this, or is it a  bug?  Here's an example:   MAIL> SET WASTE "Trash"  MAIL> SHOW WASTE% The wastebasket folder name is Trash. 
 MAIL> EXIT $ MAIL MAIL> SHOW WASTE% The wastebasket folder name is TRASH.    Regards, Mike --K              Michael T. Davis              |    Systems Specialist: ChE,MSEiN   E-mail: davism@er6.eng.ohio-state.edu    | Departmental Networking/ComputingJ            -or- DAVISM+@osu.edu            |     The Ohio State UniversityJ http://www.er6.eng.ohio-state.edu/~davism/ |     197 Watts, (614) 292-6928   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 12:22:48 -0500o' From: Chris Olive <nospam@raytheon.com>nE Subject: Want Multinet FTP listing to be 'ls -l' format to clients... < Message-ID: <WA4aa.113$35.889@dfw-service2.ext.raytheon.com>  H I'm attempting to load a file from a VMS host into Emacs on my local PC H using Ange-FTP mode in Emacs... (Briefly, for non-Emacs people, it's an - Emacs command that is essentially "LOAD FILE eF ftp://username:password@host/filename" just not quite in that format.)  D When I try to load the file into Emacs it croaks saying 'cannot get H listing for device'.  The FTP server on the VMS host is of the Multinet H variety.  I am assuming that the Emacs Ange-FTP macro gets an FTP 'dir' I listing, parses the listing, gets the file from the listing that I asked  G for, and loads it into my editor (via an FTP get).  I am also assuming jI that the listing from the Multinet server, being in "VMS format" and not aD "Unix-like format" (ie. 'ls -l' format) is what is causing my error.  E So I'm wondering if there is a way to get the Multinet FTP server to eF present files in FTP listings in Unix format (ie. 'ls -l' formar) and F not VMS format to FTP clients.  I'm guessing this will solve my Emacs H Ange-FTP loading problem.  I'm knee deep in Multinet documentation now, A but can't find anything.  If someone can help, I'd appreciate it.f   Chrisp -----  Chris Oliven Systems Consultant' Raytheon Technical Services Corporation  Indianapolis, IN  * email: olivec(AT)indy(DOT)raytheon(DOT)com   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Mar 03 10:47:24 PSTr From: mckinneyj@cpva.saic.comoI Subject: Re: Want Multinet FTP listing to be 'ls -l' format to clients...i( Message-ID: <d9S1177e96F$@cpva.saic.com>  < In article <WA4aa.113$35.889@dfw-service2.ext.raytheon.com>,*  Chris Olive <nospam@raytheon.com> writes: [...snip...]G > So I'm wondering if there is a way to get the Multinet FTP server to 0H > present files in FTP listings in Unix format (ie. 'ls -l' formar) and H > not VMS format to FTP clients.  I'm guessing this will solve my Emacs J > Ange-FTP loading problem.  I'm knee deep in Multinet documentation now, C > but can't find anything.  If someone can help, I'd appreciate it.r >   H Try defining the logical name MULTINET_FTP_UNIX_STYLE_BY_DEFAULT for the< server process (your choice of tables and values I believe).   -- r - Jims   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 16:03:07 +0100t4 From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr>2 Subject: [OT] After two months of SAP training :-(& Message-ID: <3E68B4AB.4020109@Free.fr>   Well, good to be back.  I Today is the end of the second month of my SAP Project Manager training, m- AcceleratedSAP method (still two weeks left).n   One word to summarize the hell:s  F 1. SAP has _no f** idea_ about what human engineering is. For example:  D a) most of the modules are programmed by different teams who follow H different GUI rules (screens layouts, position of buttons, exit buttons   with different names, etc. etc.)  H b) you can start the same process via four or five different paths from 
 the main menur  H c) a screen may have pop-up menus, buttons, right-clicks, double-clicks @ on a line and other (generally hidden) ways to open a sub-window   etc.  F 2. These guys from SAP engineering are (were?) mad. I have never seen H such complexity. Each doc is more than a thousand pages long, there are I thousand of docs and entries in the main menu, and the screens have more >? than hundreds of data each. Just unusable (is this on purpose?)i  G 3. They also miss a Localization Lab (even if I was told that there is  G actually one for France... in Walldorf GE). The translations to French uG are less that sh*t. And when you say so to the instructors, the answer iH is "this is SAP language, you'll get the use of it". And moreover, they C invent words, and "cherry on the cake", they change the meaning of   existing words.t   I give an example:  I Suppose you manufacture equipments and you send to a Client an equipment  H which arrives out of use. The Customer calls, you tell him that you are E sorry, that he should send it back to you and that you will send him oG back a new equipment with a box of (swiss) chocolates in a few days or l issue a credit note.  G Do you know how to handle this with SAP? When the equipment arrives to OC your warehouse, you produce an "outside delivery" then you issue a e
 "debit note".   I In France, we produce an "inside delivery" (rception) and then we issue   a credit note (avoir).  G Not only am I wasting my time and money, but I do not know where to go o1 to make some $$ now. JD Edwards? PeopleSoft? IBM?r   D.  F PS: the only piece of valuable software I found is the AcceleratedSAP  tool, made by... SAP USA.c   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 11:57:27 -0400.0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>6 Subject: Re: [OT] After two months of SAP training :-(/ Message-ID: <3E68C160.5912ED31@vl.videotron.ca>    Didier Morandi wrote: E > a) most of the modules are programmed by different teams who follow I > different GUI rules (screens layouts, position of buttons, exit buttonsa" > with different names, etc. etc.)  : I knew SAP was bloated, but I had no idea is was that bad.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 11:16:23 -0600* From: "Dave Gudewicz" <dgudewicz@core.com>6 Subject: Re: [OT] After two months of SAP training :-(/ Message-ID: <v6hkv93j27kd19@corp.supernews.com>   K I once heard the SAP = Stops All Production.  After reading what Didier hadi$ to say, I'm beginning to believe it.   -- Dave...5  L I have made it a rule never to smoke more than one cigar at a time. ----Mark Twaine  = "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message ) news:3E68C160.5912ED31@vl.videotron.ca...R > Didier Morandi wrote: G > > a) most of the modules are programmed by different teams who follow>K > > different GUI rules (screens layouts, position of buttons, exit buttons $ > > with different names, etc. etc.) > < > I knew SAP was bloated, but I had no idea is was that bad.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 18:19:00 GMTfF From: lederman@star.enet.dec.DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL.com (Bart Z. Lederman)6 Subject: Re: [OT] After two months of SAP training :-(. Message-ID: <oo5aa.96$k37.12@news.cpqcorp.net>  \ In article <v6hkv93j27kd19@corp.supernews.com>, "Dave Gudewicz" <dgudewicz@core.com> writes: >-M >I have made it a rule never to smoke more than one cigar at a time. ----Marki >Twain  4 As long as we're off topic: this wasn't always true.  B My grandfather was an artist and art teacher.  One of his teachersB was a friend of "Mark Twain".  Twain liked to play practical jokes@ on people.  One was that when invited for dinner he would glanceA at the sideboard and memorise which cordials and liquors his hoste@ had: then when dinner was finished he would ask for something he= knew the host didn't have.  At the time, many people would be < very embarrased not to have something their guest requested,> and this was true of the teacher.  He finally figured out that; Twain was doing it on purpose, and decided to get even.  Hea> collected small bottles of a wide variety of liquors (this wasA long before airline bottles, but they still existed) and hid themi; in a rack under the table where they couldn't be seen.  The1@ next time Twain requested something, it was supplied.  Twain was? non-plussed, and asked for something rather exotic: it was also-D supplied.  The teacher thought he had finally taught Twain a lesson.  D On a later visit, Twain patted his pockets and mentioned that he wasB out of cigars.  His diligent host went out to obtain some.  DuringC his absense, Twain stuffed cotton wool around the doors, pulled out0D a handful of cigars, and smoked them as rapidly as possible, fillingC the room with smoke.  When his host came back, he thought the house D was on fire.  There were no witnesses to Twain actually smoking more@ than one at a time, but it was probably necessary to achieve the effect.s  < Twain, by all accounts, wasn't all that nice to his friends.   -- l(  B. Z. Lederman   Personal Opinions Only  8  Posting to a News group does NOT give anyone permission8  to send me advertising by E-mail or put me on a mailing  list of any kind.  5  Please remove the "DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL" if you have ar5  legitimate reason to E-mail a response to this post.w   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.130 ************************