1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 12 Mar 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 140       Contents: "-" as a valid logical name?  Re: "-" as a valid logical name?P =?ISO-8859-1?Q?OpenVMS_system_managers_and_administr?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?ators_2nd_4 All the more reason for HP to effectively market VMSP Re: Benchmarketeering (was: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release f Re: Carly's feedback link ( couple of questions about the BACKUP CLI, Re: couple of questions about the BACKUP CLI, Re: couple of questions about the BACKUP CLI1 Re: DECnet SERVICE CIRCUIT for multiple e-devices 1 Re: DECnet SERVICE CIRCUIT for multiple e-devices 1 Re: DECnet SERVICE CIRCUIT for multiple e-devices 6 Re: Editor wars - Was: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?# Floppy Driver for VAX 3100 Model 30 ' Re: Floppy Driver for VAX 3100 Model 30 ' Re: Floppy Driver for VAX 3100 Model 30 ' Re: Floppy Driver for VAX 3100 Model 30 ( Re: how to pick out OpenVMS I64 in code?( Re: how to pick out OpenVMS I64 in code?( Re: how to pick out OpenVMS I64 in code?* Is http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/ down?. Re: Is http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/ down?/ Re: Linus trashes Itanium - he's scared of VMS!  LOCKTIME Re: Login timeouts.  Re: Login timeouts.  RE: Login timeouts.  memory channel Re: memory channel Re: memory channel@ Re: n-up Printing under OpenVMS 7.3 to HP LaserJet 4000 Printer.* Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants* Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants* Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants* Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants* RE: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants* Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants* Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants* Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants* RE: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants Re: Numeric usernames  Re: Numeric usernames  Re: Numeric usernames  Re: Numeric usernames  Re: Numeric usernames  Re: One version of a file ONLY.   Re: OpenVMS on Itanium Questions: Re: OpenVMS system managers and administrators 2nd EditionP Re: OpenVMS system managers and administrators 2nd Edition - ISBN: 1555582435 =?P Re: OpenVMS system managers and administrators 2nd Edition - ISBN: 1555582435 =?P Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marveland Alpha RetaiP Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marveland Alpha Retai1 Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 1 Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 1 Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 1 Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 1 Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 1 Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 1 Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 1 Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 1 Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 1 Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 1 Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 1 Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 1 Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 1 Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 1 Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants  Re: OT: About snow...  Re: OT: About snow... / Re: Pathworks 6.0C and Windows 2000 AD upgrade?  Re: Process State "RWCAP"  Re: PSDC missing data P Re: SIMH 2.10-4 released: major bug fixes to PDP-8, PDP-11, VAX, PDP-15, InterdaP Re: SIMH 2.10-4 released: major bug fixes to PDP-8, PDP-11, VAX, PDP-15, InterdaP Re: SIMH 2.10-4 released: major bug fixes to PDP-8, PDP-11, VAX, PDP-15, Interda Re: SQS Listener (again)" Re: SYS$STARTUP:LIB$DT_STARTUP.COM Re: TCPIP: bug or feature  Re: TCPIP: bug or feature  Re: TCPIP: bug or feature C The following are the OpenVMS Pearls for Mon Tues and Wed this week 1 Re: The Inquirer: Why Isn't HP Promoting OpenVMS?  Re: unix Re: unix Re: unix Re: unix Re: unix Re: unix Re: unix Re: unix Re: unix Re: VAX Shared SCSI anyone?  Re: VAX Shared SCSI anyone?  VMS - duplicating database Re: VMS - duplicating database Re: VMS - duplicating database Re: VMS - duplicating database Re: VMS - duplicating database RE: VMS - duplicating database  Re: [Fwd: Re: Numeric usernames]  Re: [Fwd: Re: Numeric usernames]  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 17:18:10 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> % Subject: "-" as a valid logical name? ; Message-ID: <01KTG0OK13E09H1MPS@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   
 HELP says:   DEFINE     Parameters           logical-name  E        Specifies the logical name string, which is a character string F        containing from 1 to 255 characters. The following rules apply:  B        o  If the logical name is to be entered into the process orF           system directory logical name tables (LNM$PROCESS_DIRECTORY,F           LNM$SYSTEM_DIRECTORY), then the name can only have from 1 toH           31 alphanumeric characters, including the dollar sign ($)  and           underscore (_).    but    $ define - xxx $ sh log "-""    "-" = "XXX" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)   Should this give an error?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 16:34:11 -0000 * From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>) Subject: Re: "-" as a valid logical name? , Message-ID: <b4nni4$12oq@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>  F "Phillip Helbig" <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message5 news:01KTG0OK13E09H1MPS@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com...    > $ define - xxx > $ sh log "-"$ >    "-" = "XXX" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE) >  > Should this give an error?  . No. LNM$PROCESS_TABLE != LNM$PROCESS_DIRECTORY   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Mar 2003 02:49:34 -0800* From: rob.kersey@ntlworld.com (Rob Kersey)Y Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?OpenVMS_system_managers_and_administr?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?ators_2nd_ = Message-ID: <81995067.0303120249.6ca32492@posting.google.com>    Hoff,   - Is it true that this book has been cancelled?   ? The only book on the topic, OpenVMS System Management Guide, 2e = details for system administrators the tools, technologies and D techniques by which they can configure, maintain, and tune computers? running Compaq's OpenVMS operating system. Written by a topical F authority and a principal OpenVMS engineer at Compaq, the book enablesA system administrators to perform more efficiently and effectively D those everyday tasks critical to an OpenVMS system. This new edition> explains the new capabilities of OpenVMS versions 7.2 and 7.3,C including new networking technologies, Web server hosting features, = the OpenVMS Galaxy multiprocessor infrastructure, and running + Microsoft's COM object standard on OpenVMS.      Cheers.    Rob    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 17:38:05 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> = Subject: All the more reason for HP to effectively market VMS F Message-ID: <1gKba.6698$a41.2181@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  6 http://www.techweb.com/tech/software/20030311_software   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 13:24:38 +0000 ' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy Y Subject: Re: Benchmarketeering (was: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release f . Message-ID: <3E6F3516.7040901@nospamn.sun.com>  - Interesting I thought it would be helpfull to / look at how your comments fit with the ammounts / that Compaq/HP appears to have been prepared to  spend on Benchmarketing.  - You are right benchmarks are expensive to run * particularly TPC-C and Compaq/HP has spent5 more than any other vendor on TPC-C benchmarks if you 8 simply measure the hardware cost of what you benchmarked  7 HP's entries in the top 10 TPC-C numbers, Proliants and 7 SuperDome have a hardware value of ~37 million dollars.   7 The next most profligate TPC-C benchmarker in the top10 6 is IBM with 14 million dollars folowed by Fujitsu with# 12 million and NEC with 10 million.   = HP nearly outspent all the other top 10 vendors put together.   5 In terms of total number of TPC-C benchmarks you also  come out way ahead.   
 12 Fujitsu 18 Dell  20 IBM 38 HPQ  9 You have an even greater proportion of the TPC-H results.   6 And its not as if you didn't as Compaq pump money into4 benchmarketing the GS, you actually did 3 iterations8 of TPC-C at total of ~26 millon dollars for the hardware7 for the GS320 by itself, plus a number of TPC-H results 7 and the GS160 runs as well. None of the results however 7 much was spent on them demonstrated what your marketing 8 folks who no doubt paid the bill kept claiming which was performance leadership.   : It wasn't/isn't lack of cash or will to run the benchmarks9 thats the issue, Compaq appears to have been very willing 5 to fork out for the pleasure as does HP. The issue is 0 the results themselves, to be frank however much7 was spent on them it wasn't worth it and would probably 8 have been better spent being given to you to improve the' performance of your devt/test platform.   8 And given the choice of spending on development or boxes5 for benchmarks its pretty clear from the numbers that 8 Compaq/HP sees more value in the latter than the former.   Regards  Andrew Harrison    Hoff Hoffman wrote: D >   I think I have the attributions correct, but (if not) apologies. >  > 7 >>From: Tim Walls [mailto:timwa@stamford.snowgoons.com]  >>Sent: March 7, 2003 7:11 PM  >  > .. > : >>In article <mqnh6vsel43b1vpf9usq1g05nhpc4oc2kb@4ax.com>, > . > :> 	jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com> writes:J > :> No offence, but I speak as an independent observer who's been lurkingJ > :> in this group for quite a while...  And I'm afraid, you just lost the > :> argument. > :>F > :> Jesus, what is it with you guys?  (That is, HP+Cpaq et al.)  As aG > :> customer, I'd kinda expect you to jump at the chance to prove your  > :> product performs well.    >  > I >   Running benchmarks is a significant expensive for any vendor, and the H >   larger and more complex the benchmark, the higher the costs.  I haveJ >   been peripherally involved -- pun entirely intended -- in a very smallH >   number of these efforts, and the scale of the boxes and the hardwareF >   and the effort involved in benchmarketeering is eye-opening.  (I'dD >   certainly like to have part of the typical benchmarking hardware@ >   available to speed the OpenVMS system builds, for instance.) > H >   Given a (personal) choice between working on new features or workingH >   on a benchmark, I know what provides more value for the customers --G >   the benchmarketeering is certainly a necessary effort, but it is an H >   expensive one.  (Is it fun having a screaming-fast benchmark number?E >   Sure.  But that's only useful for folks running that benchmark in D >   production.  There are few such folks around, in my experience.) > I >   Now as for benchmarks, OpenVMS has a lab where we are running and are I >   looking at and are benchmarking with customer applications -- various F >   third-party applications have been "up on the lift", and engineersI >   have crawled around, under, and within the application code, and also I >   within the OpenVMS supporting code.  From an engineering and customer G >   perspective, it's more interesting to see real application code and A >   work on removing real problems or improving real performance.  > H >   The new features and the application-specific performance benchmarksH >   and application-specific characterization can be of central interest$ >   to current and to new customers. > J >   And as for the results numbers, we can (and likely will) all endlesslyE >   discuss the meanings of or the applicability of or the rules and  I >   regulations of particular benchmarks -- and most every benchmark ever H >   written is eventually "cracked" or "cooked", of course.  (The entireI >   benchmark ends up running within the processor cache, or the compiler I >   entirely optimized the benchmark code away, or...)  And when the next K >   new box ships, run it all over again for a new set of benchmarketeering  >   fodder.  > G >   Having the fastest box in the industry benchmarks is certainly fun. F >   That said, my own personal feeling is that evidence indicates thatF >   the benchmarks actually sell few systems -- they're certainly usedG >   for benchmarketeering and bragging, and for tasks such as the gross E >   scaling of system size(s) necessary.  But having acceptably fast  I >   application run-times at an acceptably-affordable price (acquisition, H >   maintenance, stability, features, upgrades, etc) sells (more) boxes. > H >   Benchmarketeering is like botox.   The results might look pretty (ifH >   done right), but the results don't actually alter the underpinnings.F >   If the underpinnings are not maintained in good working order, allD >   the botox ever made won't help sell the resulting, um, sausage.  > P >  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------L >       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.comP >  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------G >         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 11:44:07 +0000 ' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy " Subject: Re: Carly's feedback link. Message-ID: <3E6F1D87.1050800@nospamn.sun.com>   John Wallace wrote: A > "Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspring.com> wrote in message H > news:rdeininger-0703032112040001@user-105n97s.dialup.mindspring.com... > L >>In article <01KT8JASQGB69FQH4P@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig- >><HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote:  >> >> >>K >>>Your enemies just have to do ONE THING to sabotage your dreams entirely, I >>>even if you produce some "commitments" from HP: bring in a witness who J >>>states "yeah, right, these same guys told me a few years ago that NT onD >>>ALPHA was the future; we invested millions and are now orphaned". >>I >>I seriously doubt any customer ever "invested millions" in NT on Alpha.  >>K >>Unless you mean millions of Quatloos.  And we know 100 Quatloos won't buy 7 >>you much, not even a working email client on Windows.  >  > L > Then you or I may be misinformed. At least one major UK corporate customerM > allegedly bought (or was planning to buy) a big GS-series box to run SAP on K > NT. Why NT? Why SAP? Why SAP on NT on GS-series? Beats me. Presumably SAP . > give good golf (or whatever) at board level. >   : Well SAP didn't run on OpenVMS so that removes one option.; And at the time NT was the next big thing as far as Digital  was concerned. Sad but true.   Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 15:36:33 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> 1 Subject: couple of questions about the BACKUP CLI ; Message-ID: <01KTFX7F9D589H1MPS@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>    If I do something like      $ DIR/SIN=YES/BEF    E and get a list of files, then replace DIR with BACK in order to back  < those same files up, BACKUP sometimes produces more files.  B (Unfortunately, it doesn't happen all the time, so I don't have a 2 reproducer right now.)  Has anyone else seen this?   If I do   1    $  PIPE BACK/LIST X.BCK/SAVE > SYS$SCRATCH:X.X   ; then I get the output in SYS$SCRATCH:X.X.  However, if I do   ;    $  PIPE BACK/LIST X.BCK/SAVE | SEARCH SYS$INPUT <string>    then I get    *    %SEARCH-I-NOMATCHES, no strings matched  D but so quickly it is obvious that it didn't actually search all the H output (which is also obvious from the fact that the message comes even  if the string is there).   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 17:37:48 +0100 0 From: "labadie" <en_trajectant_a_mort@127.0.0.1>5 Subject: Re: couple of questions about the BACKUP CLI , Message-ID: <3e6f6419$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  F "Phillip Helbig" <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message5 news:01KTFX7F9D589H1MPS@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com...   = > then I get the output in SYS$SCRATCH:X.X.  However, if I do  > = >    $  PIPE BACK/LIST X.BCK/SAVE | SEARCH SYS$INPUT <string>  >  > then I get > , >    %SEARCH-I-NOMATCHES, no strings matched >    hello    I do not reproduce it, sorry. D I use sys$pipe instead of sys$input or tt:, but all the 3 work fine.   Regards    Grard   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 12:31:05 -0500 - From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> 5 Subject: Re: couple of questions about the BACKUP CLI 6 Message-ID: <b4nqt1$2045f2$1@ID-141708.news.dfncis.de>   Phillip Helbig wrote:  >.. = > then I get the output in SYS$SCRATCH:X.X.  However, if I do  > = >    $  PIPE BACK/LIST X.BCK/SAVE | SEARCH SYS$INPUT <string>  >  > then I get > , >    %SEARCH-I-NOMATCHES, no strings matched > = > but so quickly it is obvious that it didn't actually search  all the > > output (which is also obvious from the fact that the message comes  > even if the string is there).   > When I saw this I recalled that there was a thread on this not= too long ago, a quick Google search turned up almost the same < question asked by someone name Phillip Helbig last September1 :) The best answer from that thread seemed to be;   > http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=19SEP02.15054189%40feda01$ .fed.ornl.gov&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain  : In summary, your mailbox is too small to hold the complete% backup listing so PIPE quietly fails.    -- Peter Weaver: Opinions are my own, and do not reflect the opinions of my	 employer, > nor the company that it sub-contracts to, nor the company that it sub-contracts to.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 09:31:22 -0600  From: brandon@dalsemi.com : Subject: Re: DECnet SERVICE CIRCUIT for multiple e-devices1 Message-ID: <03031209312235@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>   J >>> From the "little known MOP facts" file (based on my exprience thru and* >>> including V5.5-2, VERY unofficial))...  7 Mmmmmm, this sounds GOOD!  I like the unofficial stuff.   D >>> If a device requesting a load asks for a specific file, any nodeH >>> receiving that request with service enabled on the receiving circuitJ >>> can/will attempt to service the request. All that's needed is that theL >>> requested file be present in the MOM$SYSTEM path (or maybe its MOM$LOAD, >>> I forget). >>> F >>> If a device requesting "load me" does not request a specific file,J >>> things get a bit hairier. I've no lab to test this; however, I believeJ >>> you can leave out the service circuit clause and just specify the loadI >>> file. SERVICE CIRCUIT only needs to be known when you want to use the L >>> TRIGGER or LOAD commands specifying NODE instead of "VIA circuit_id PHYS >>> ADDR phys_addr". >>> F >>> I've not played much with LANCP, so I can't speak to that with anyC >>> authority. It may be more flexible than the DECnet-IV executor.   M Makes sense to me.  Since I do not use the TRIGGER or LOAD, I believe you are ) correct and I will try this out.  Thanks!   ( >>> > No plans to upgrade to DECnet/OSI. >>> > >>> Wouldn't help anyway - it'd take years to figure THAT out.  O Been there with DECnet/OCI and X.25 - to this day I still have no idea what the 
 hell I did...   
 Thanks again!    John Brandon VMS Systems Administrator  Dallas Semiconductor john.brandon@dalsemi.com 972.371.4172 wk  972.371.4003 fx    ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 16:33:16 +0000 (UTC) - From: lewis@spyder.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis) : Subject: Re: DECnet SERVICE CIRCUIT for multiple e-devices. Message-ID: <b4nngc$8qh$1@newslocal.mitre.org>  r brandon@dalsemi.com writes in article <03031114135883@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com> dated Tue, 11 Mar 2003 14:13:58 -0600:1 >>>> >Using the DCL commands will muck things up:  >>>> >- >>>> >NCP> SET NODE nodename ADDRESS address  / >>>> >         SERVICE CIRCUIT ethernet-device  1 >>>> >         HARDWARE ADDRESS ethernet-address  + >>>> >         LOAD FILE file specification  >>>> >% >>>> >Any ideas how to overcome this?  >>>>  B >I want to DEFINE the SERVICE CIRCUIT for each remote node once.  A >I do not want to do a SET - defeats the purpose of my objective.   J Maybe I was oversimplifying your problem.  I'm still not sure I understand6 it but I'll tell you what I know in case it helps you.  H The only thing I have ever used this stuff for is MOP booting, and sinceK that happens before Decnet phase IV is loaded, the hardware address of each C adapter is unique (at least all of mine are).  The boot server uses 3 whichever circuit it received the MOP request on.     I If you attempt use NCP to set (or def) the booting parameters of the node K you're logged in to, you'll get "%NCP-W-PRMNA, Parameter not applicable" -- G another reason to use SYSMAN.  It's a shotgun approach, but it works.     " >I know some possible options are: > P >1) Swap the GIGe with the 100 Mbit cards, this will force the GIGe to be EWA-0.N >2) Have two seperate data files.  One shared by the two servers and the third >by itself. O >3) Use a logical - thought - however I do not think that DECnet will translate  >at the transport layer.   > M >I know with TSM you were able to define multiple circuit paths, however that D >was for management of DECservers but not downloading to DECservers. >  >Did I miss something?  K I'm wondering if I did.  :^)  Your mention of DECservers probably means you , aren't booting alphas from alphas like I am.  + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.org > The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 10:37:23 -0600  From: brandon@dalsemi.com : Subject: Re: DECnet SERVICE CIRCUIT for multiple e-devices1 Message-ID: <03031210372319@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>   Q >>> >I know with TSM you were able to define multiple circuit paths, however that H >>> >was for management of DECservers but not downloading to DECservers. >>> >  >>> >Did I miss something? >>> O >>> I'm wondering if I did.  :^)  Your mention of DECservers probably means you 0 >>> aren't booting alphas from alphas like I am.  5 That explains it.  I am MOP booting DECservers only.    G David J. Dachtera got me straightened out... well, as best as possible.        John Brandon VMS Systems Administrator  Dallas Semiconductor john.brandon@dalsemi.com 972.371.4172 wk  972.371.4003 fx    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 11:46:19 +0200 $ From: "MikeR" <rechtman@tzora.co.il>? Subject: Re: Editor wars - Was: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ? 6 Message-ID: <b4mveu$2287hq$1@ID-103225.news.dfncis.de>    comment from the peanut gallery:L IIRC I started using EDT on RSTS (instead of KED) and then on VMS 4.7 (?) or 5.5  however:H EDT on OpenVMS straight out of the box cannot, without patching the .EXEJ file, see or enter all the Hebrew letters. Now I admit this only affects aL minute proportion of users, and it can be fixed (on VAX - no PATCH on Alpha) but...> So theres no "default/vanilla/virgin" EDT among Israeli users.     Mike   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Mar 2003 01:20:37 -0800$ From: fakharmtc@hotmail.com (Fakhar), Subject: Floppy Driver for VAX 3100 Model 30= Message-ID: <f925d8ca.0303120120.6e5e66a3@posting.google.com>   ' Can anyone please lead me to this stuff   # It is really very important for me.      Fakhar   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 12:25:50 +0000 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>0 Subject: Re: Floppy Driver for VAX 3100 Model 30) Message-ID: <3E6F274E.74188492@127.0.0.1>   
 Fakhar wrote:  > ) > Can anyone please lead me to this stuff  > % > It is really very important for me.    Drive or "driver" ?   A Driver is included with the operating system. If the floppy drive H doesn't work, probably hardware related (cables not correctly connected, power, something else, etc.)  E If you want to add a drive, there is a part number to order which has C both the cables and any related extra cards if necessary, and these A could also be purchased second hand with the associated risks, or G refurbished. I doubt you'd find them new. Try the SOC archives and find  your model system.  H http://www.compaq.com/products/quickspecs/soc_archives/SOC_Archives.html  . (the HP url is longer and more likely to wrap)   --  ? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 08:08:41 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>0 Subject: Re: Floppy Driver for VAX 3100 Model 30/ Message-ID: <3E6F233D.47BFED9D@vl.videotron.ca>   
 Fakhar wrote:  > ) > Can anyone please lead me to this stuff  > % > It is really very important for me.   H It comes with VMS... What you need is to INIT the floppy with some extraK parameters to specify high density. Then you mount it as you would a drive.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 08:19:41 -0600 - From: Hunter Goatley <goathunter@goatley.com> 0 Subject: Re: Floppy Driver for VAX 3100 Model 309 Message-ID: <deHba.24066$Qo.4801@fe07.atl2.webusenet.com>    JF Mezei wrote:  > Fakhar wrote:  > ) >>Can anyone please lead me to this stuff  >>% >>It is really very important for me.  >  > J > It comes with VMS... What you need is to INIT the floppy with some extraM > parameters to specify high density. Then you mount it as you would a drive.   > And if you want to be able to read and write DOS floppies, you might take a look at MGPCX:   : http://vms.process.com/scripts/fileserv/fileserv.com?MGPCX   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Mar 2003 08:32:48 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 1 Subject: Re: how to pick out OpenVMS I64 in code? 3 Message-ID: <do312yX5jrhp@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <q+vEQNal8Ghl@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: s > In article <BCvSnRYwHkGA@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:  >>  K >>    As I'm wandering through, editting source anyway, I wonder if I could = >>    now make changes in support of future migration to IPF.  >>  E >>    So can anyone say what C, C++, and BLISS keywords I can pick up C >>    which are the IPF equivalent to #ifdef __vax, #ifdef __alpha,  >>    %BLISS32E()? >>  = >>    How about the return for f$getsyi("arch_name") et. al.?  > D > This is included in the VMS V7.3-1 documentation (I forget whether- > it is Release Notes or New Features Guide).   B    OK ,I'll look for it on the doc site.  We still havne't got our7    support contract straightened out, so no 7.3-1 here.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 14:42:47 GMT & From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>1 Subject: Re: how to pick out OpenVMS I64 in code? 0 Message-ID: <HHHba.219$aj4.127@news.cpqcorp.net>   Bob Koehler wrote:J >    As I'm wandering through, editting source anyway, I wonder if I could< >    now make changes in support of future migration to IPF. > D >    So can anyone say what C, C++, and BLISS keywords I can pick upB >    which are the IPF equivalent to #ifdef __vax, #ifdef __alpha, >    %BLISS32E()?   K At this time, BLISS has %BLISS32I and %BLISS64I.  I doubt they will change.   I Not sure about C does or what C++ will do, I'm just a poor BLISS, Macro,   and Pascal programmer. :-)     --   John Reagan ' Compaq Pascal/{A|I}MACRO Project Leader  Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------    Date: 12 Mar 2003 09:05:34 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 1 Subject: Re: how to pick out OpenVMS I64 in code? 3 Message-ID: <8VaBf9htIfzr@eisner.encompasserve.org>   Y In article <HHHba.219$aj4.127@news.cpqcorp.net>, John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com> writes:   K > Not sure about C does or what C++ will do, I'm just a poor BLISS, Macro,   > and Pascal programmer. :-)  D Nonsense !  Based on the quality of the Pascal compiler, I would say# you are a _good_ Bliss programmer !    ------------------------------    Date: 12 Mar 2003 05:14:26 -0800+ From: hsnewman@austin.rr.com (HarrisNewman) 3 Subject: Is http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/ down? = Message-ID: <73dff34c.0303120514.2301b15c@posting.google.com>   D I haven't been able to get to it since Saturday.  I've sent messagesA to the web master as well as the contacts, without response. Does ( anyone know if the hobbist site is down?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 09:05:12 -0500 ! From: VAXVMS <bounce@notmail.com> 7 Subject: Re: Is http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/ down? K Message-ID: <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E4903027BD5@rlghncst964.usps.gov>   / "HarrisNewman"  [hsnewman@austin.rr.com] wrote:  > E >I haven't been able to get to it since Saturday.  I've sent messages B >to the web master as well as the contacts, without response. Does) >anyone know if the hobbist site is down?  >   H whiteice.com (where my website is located, same ownership) is also down.  E Since David C's email is through montagar, that probably won't work-    * I might have his phone number in my PDA.  - If so, I'll give him a ring to see what's up.    ========================  William W. Webb - EMS Operations) OpenVMS Systems Support - USPS DSSC Annex , 4730 Hargrove Road, Raleigh, NC 27616-2874  > 919.325.7500 x4186  <FirstInitialLastNameAtEmailDotUSPSDotGov>   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 11:33:40 +0000 ' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy 8 Subject: Re: Linus trashes Itanium - he's scared of VMS!. Message-ID: <3E6F1B14.3080004@nospamn.sun.com>   Rob Young wrote:T > In article <3E6CB8FC.9@nospamn.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy writes: >  >> >>Bill Todd wrote: >  > L >>>Madison is McKinley, with a process-shrink (and increased clock rate) andO >>>twice as much cache.  No other substantive changes.  The only possibility is M >>>that Madison with only 3 MB of on-chip cache might even be a bit *smaller* H >>>than the 266 - 269 mm^2 that I calculated, because with less cache toA >>>accommodate a more efficient overall layout might be possible.  >>>  >>>  >>@ >>And Intels own roadmap for IPF explicitly says that the larger? >>cache size on Madison is only one of the changes to the chip.  >> >  > 	Where is that info? >  > M >>>As noted above, it's the same design.  So it's effectively McKinley in 130   >>>nm, save for the added cache. >>>  >>1 >>Nope that isn't what Intels documentation says.  >>> >>http://www.intel.com/ebusiness/pdf/prod/itanium/wp022001.pdf >> >  > > > 	The only reference to Madison in that article states fasterH > 	communication and larger cache for Madison.  The faster communicationA > 	could be an artifact of increased clock.  There isn't anything   > 	definitive in that reference.  D Not quite it says one of the changes on Madison is the larger cache.* Which imples that there are other changes.   Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 10:30:45 -0600  From: brandon@dalsemi.com  Subject: LOCKTIME 1 Message-ID: <03031210304511@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>   I >> My tool for measuring lock-request latencies in a cluster may be found < >> at http://encompasserve.org/~parris/locktime.com (and seeH >> LOCKTIME_README.TXT at the same location for a bit of documentation). >>  E >> Many thanks go to Roy G. Davis (of VAXcluster Principles fame) for G >> writing the Macro programs that make this possible, and to Christian 5 >> Moser for porting them from VAX to Alpha long ago.  >>  ; >> (If you happen to run this tool on some unusual hardware ; >> configuration, I'd be interested in seeing the results.)    Keith -   N I downloaded and ran the LOCKTIME as you suggested.  I looked it over, felt it! was safe, MACRO and submitted it.   M I ran this on a GS160 with 3 galaxy instances, 2 of which are clustered.  SCS  runs over memory.   7 I also ran this on a 3 node MC cluster.  2 DS20 1 ES40.    Results:  2   Latency for the GS160 cluster was 358.3 to 394.02   Latency for the MC cluster    was 128.9 to 152.5  = Now my curiosity is running amuck...  thank you very much! :P   F My assumption would have been that the GS160 memory SCS would have outJ performed the MC.  I only ran this once - so I have some homework to do...K run it multiple times to for trending analysis, comparitive against current % workloads, stuff of that nature, etc.    Thanks for the code!       John Brandon VMS Systems Administrator  Dallas Semiconductor john.brandon@dalsemi.com 972.371.4172 wk  972.371.4003 fx    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 07:17:43 GMT + From: Ryan Moore <rmoore@rmoore.dyndns.org>W Subject: Re: Login timeouts.5 Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.53.0303112308590.5943@jaipur>?  ( On Tue, 11 Mar 2003, Steve Spires wrote: > mc sysgen show/lgi >aC > LGI_PWD_TMO                    30         30         0        255o > Seconds    DC > LGI_RETRY_TMO                   2         20         2        255l > Seconds    D >l >eG > According to the above, logins should get 30 seconds before they time G > out. It appears they time out after 18 seconds [this happens on otheru7 > nodes set up the 'same' as this] and I can't see why.   J Not exactly.  I've studied the source listings in 7.3-1 a while.  It seemsI that LGI_RETRY_TMO is used for the timeout for reading the username.  AndMG LGI_PWD_TMO is used for the timeout for reading the password.  At least 9 that's what I understand.  The logic is kinda convoluted.l  = The help in SYSGEN for those parameters confirms what I read.u  @ I've verified this to be the case by using DECnet SET HOST 0 andJ connecting via LAT.  We use Multinet, so I can't vouch for the behavior of DEC TCP/IP Services telnet.t  I I changed LGI_RETRY_TMO from the default 20 seconds to 10 and my terminalO) timed out at 'username' after 10 seconds.e   -RyanE   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Mar 2003 05:45:56 -0800) From: P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young)o Subject: Re: Login timeouts.= Message-ID: <55f85d77.0303120545.2a1aac3f@posting.google.com>u  z "Steve Spires" <Steve.Spires@torex.com> wrote in message news:<91947A84607D9D48B8E674A5FAB54DA63CAE66@tahiti.tinuk.com>...G > According to the above, logins should get 30 seconds before they timeeG > out. It appears they time out after 18 seconds [this happens on othera7 > nodes set up the 'same' as this] and I can't see why.e >   E LGI_PWD_TMO would refer to the password prompt timeout, not the logineF prompt timeout. That would be LGI_RETRY_TMO, which sort of makes sense thinking about it.  + There is all sorts of weird stuff in there.   C At least two people who have worked on this (most excellent code itoB is too) post to this list and may offer more information. I have aD lot of respect for these folks - you don't want to many "misteakes" 3 here and this stuff *is* thought out looking at it.p   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 08:57:34 -0500a! From: VAXVMS <bounce@notmail.com>  Subject: RE: Login timeouts.K Message-ID: <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E4903027BD4@rlghncst964.usps.gov>a  8 "Steve Spires" <Steve.Spires@torex.com> wrote in messageA news:<91947A84607D9D48B8E674A5FAB54DA63CAE66@tahiti.tinuk.com>...tG > According to the above, logins should get 30 seconds before they timeaG > out. It appears they time out after 18 seconds [this happens on others7 > nodes set up the 'same' as this] and I can't see why.a >   E LGI_PWD_TMO would refer to the password prompt timeout, not the login F prompt timeout. That would be LGI_RETRY_TMO, which sort of makes sense thinking about it.  + There is all sorts of weird stuff in there.   C At least two people who have worked on this (most excellent code itaB is too) post to this list and may offer more information. I have aC lot of respect for these folks - you don't want to many "misteakes" 3 here and this stuff *is* thought out looking at it.-  6   Is your system using US seconds or imperial seconds?     :^)      WWWebb ========================  William W. Webb - EMS Operations) OpenVMS Systems Support - USPS DSSC Annexu, 4730 Hargrove Road, Raleigh, NC 27616-2874  > 919.325.7500 x4186  <FirstInitialLastNameAtEmailDotUSPSDotGov>   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 14:19:17 GMT # From: "John N." <JNixon@cfl.rr.com>M Subject: memory channel < Message-ID: <FlHba.27015$Xu4.876622@twister.tampabay.rr.com>  I Ok, I got good response to my question about Fibre Channel and SCS.  Now,e- how about some good advice on memory channel.   I If we get rid of our VAX's and our GS140 (with CIXCDs and CIPCAs), and wen* get rid of our AS2100a with fast ethernet,, and if we replace them with a pair of ES4Xs,  L And if we add these two ES4Xs to a cluster with two other ES40s (all running4 VMS 7.2-1 now, but soon to be upgraded to VMS 7.3-1)  I Would it make more sense to connect them via two Gbit ethernet devices on D separate networks (for redundancy), or to connect them with one Gbit6 ethernet, and one memory channel (by way of a mc hub).  I We already have two ES40s, each with two gbit ethernets (connected to one > network segment).  These ES40s are also connected to a mc hub.  I In other words, is Gbit ethernet much better than Memory Channel (or vice I versa) when it comes to SCS traffic and keeping a cluster running in casegJ one network dies?  We purchased our two existging ES40s and Memory Channel* adapters and hub a little over a year ago.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 09:08:33 -0600  From: brandon@dalsemi.comc Subject: Re: memory channelg1 Message-ID: <03031209083322@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>   M >>> Ok, I got good response to my question about Fibre Channel and SCS.  Now,e1 >>> how about some good advice on memory channel.e  M I guess you missed over the part where I brought up the SCS question on MC oru Gbit?R  M >>> If we get rid of our VAX's and our GS140 (with CIXCDs and CIPCAs), and we . >>> get rid of our AS2100a with fast ethernet,0 >>> and if we replace them with a pair of ES4Xs, >>>   H I assume that you will be using FIBER-C (SAN) for your Storage, correct?  P >>> And if we add these two ES4Xs to a cluster with two other ES40s (all running8 >>> VMS 7.2-1 now, but soon to be upgraded to VMS 7.3-1)  C Good move.  From what I have been reading, better performance, etc.r  M >>> Would it make more sense to connect them via two Gbit ethernet devices on1H >>> separate networks (for redundancy), or to connect them with one Gbit: >>> ethernet, and one memory channel (by way of a mc hub).  J Regardless of what you chose for SCS, I would have two Gbit per server forL redundancy of the network connections.  V7.3 irons out some problems (designJ issues) that V7.2 has (so I think).  Reading down below I see that you do.  + For your SCS traffic, you have two options:r  E 1) PRIVATE 100Mbit for your SCS.  Coupled with SCS running over Gbit.a  . 2) Keep the MC and use the Gbit as a failover.  O And for both options, V7.3-1 allows SCS channell weighting, so you will be ablel to customize your environment.  M >>> We already have two ES40s, each with two gbit ethernets (connected to onetB >>> network segment).  These ES40s are also connected to a mc hub. >>> M >>> In other words, is Gbit ethernet much better than Memory Channel (or vice-M >>> versa) when it comes to SCS traffic and keeping a cluster running in case N >>> one network dies?  We purchased our two existging ES40s and Memory Channel. >>> adapters and hub a little over a year ago.   The data I have:  : There is lower latency with MC however but with CPU costs:  -   For a single stream workload test scenario:e/     MC2 with a low-latency of 25% over  100MbitH/     MC2 with a through-put of 20% over  100Mbitk/     MC2 with a CPU cost    of 22% under 100Mbit'  4   For a multiple stream (32) workload test scenario:/     100Mbit with a through-put of 25% over  MC2e&     no low-latency test data available/     100Mbit with a CPU cost    of 28% over  MC2a  K We are removing our MC for the following reasons, based on our environment,e expectations, etc...:c: 1) Purchase Costs.  MC is far more expensive than 100Mbit.0    To add additional servers would be expensive = 2) Maintenance Costs.  MC is far more expensive than 100Mbit. , 3) 100Mbit will costs less in CPU resources.K 4) 100Mbit under larger work loads will perform just as well/if not better.T  N Our environment does not use the MC for anything but SCS.  If your environmentM uses ORACLE Parallel Server (or other such products) you may want to considert keeping MC.   : If it works, why change it?  If it costs money, change it!   John Brandon VMS Systems Administratort Dallas Semiconductor john.brandon@dalsemi.com 972.371.4172 wko 972.371.4003 fxs   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Mar 2003 10:32:22 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)o Subject: Re: memory channelm3 Message-ID: <Tq$ui5O2TThV@eisner.encompasserve.org>l  b In article <FlHba.27015$Xu4.876622@twister.tampabay.rr.com>, "John N." <JNixon@cfl.rr.com> writes:  K > We already have two ES40s, each with two gbit ethernets (connected to onei@ > network segment).  These ES40s are also connected to a mc hub. > K > In other words, is Gbit ethernet much better than Memory Channel (or vice K > versa) when it comes to SCS traffic and keeping a cluster running in caseeL > one network dies?  We purchased our two existging ES40s and Memory Channel, > adapters and hub a little over a year ago.    ; 	Depends on how reliable your network is.  MC saved me fromu; 	a network downing which would have put me in full merge on 6 	shadowsets (among other issues).  The SP switch saved 	the SP nodes (enet over SP).   = 	About the only thing I might add, is you may want to pick upw> 	an 8 port switch and make that your own private network, that> 	would be an added level of redundancy and would guard against$ 	bad firmware loads to your network.  : 	Another very good trick and google groups will talk about@ 	it... raise RECNXINTERVAL to 120 seconds.  Most network outagesC 	last less than that (1 minute?).  If your entire corporate networkn- 	is down for 5 minutes you won't be alone :-)i   				Robp   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Mar 2003 02:03:40 -0800- From: tony.alldis@dunnhumby.com (Tony Alldis) I Subject: Re: n-up Printing under OpenVMS 7.3 to HP LaserJet 4000 Printer.m= Message-ID: <c16c8d2e.0303120203.2183b06f@posting.google.com>   	 Hi Peter,u  A Thanks for your comments on this one - Of course I meant DCPS not E DECPS (it's that I'd been looking at some DECPS documentation earliere0 in the day, and it must have stuck in my head!).  . I'm going to install DCPS and give this a try.   Thanks again for your advice.    Regards,   Tony A.n (UK)  s peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) wrote in message news:<MNsba.177948$AV5.1965405@news.chello.at>... o > In article <c16c8d2e.0303110730.626a6ab3@posting.google.com>, tony.alldis@dunnhumby.com (Tony Alldis) writes:wI > >We have a request from one of our users, to be able to print 4 * pagesvD > >of normal text logfile output, onto a single page of A4 (n-up [orI > >4-up] printing, as its known) to an HP LaserJet 4000 TN printer via anv > >OpenVMS V7.3 "Telnet" queue.m >  > $ PRINT/PARAM=NUMBER_UP=4u > F > >I have taken a look at the DECPS documentation, but due to the factF > >that the queue is using Telnet printing - it would not be supported > >via that route. > M > It is DCPS (the DECprint Supervisor) not DECPS (the Performance Solutions).t0 > And yes, DCPS is the (preferred) way to do it. > H > >I thought it might be possible to setup a printer form that could useG > >some embedded PCL commands to put the printer into the correct mode.o > . > You could also try this with PS commands ;-)F > But why bother with printer dependant commands when you have alreadyE > a supported and free (license is included in VMS License) solution.e > C > >I've checked through the PCL5 documentation on the internet, butpF > >believe the "n-up" printing function is a feature of PCL6, which is? > >supported by the printer, but which I can find absolutely noe > >documentation for!w > >aG > >Would anyone know what the PCL commands would be to facilitate this,rD > >or perhaps have a better suggestion for how this may be achieved? > F > Install DCPS and setup the queue onto node::"IP_RawTCP/printer:9100"K > which is a solution called "telnet" or "reverse telnet" or "stream" queuet+ > means a solution what you like to have...h >  > H > But check again your HPLJ 4000. The were sold in large quantities withJ > bad firmware (firmware code 1997xxxxx or so). You need at least firmwareH > from 1998 which might be hard now to get if you don't already have it. > C > The HP supported method would be to buy a more recent printer ;-)a > supported by DCPS of course.   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 13:07:58 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>a3 Subject: Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrantsa; Message-ID: <01KTFS1NPGXE9FRD0S@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>,  H >    My respect for Dubya inched up a tiny bit today when the US put offH >    the planned date because of opposition within the security counsel.E >    I thought he was going to accept the French veto and go with theuI >    argument that the majority voted in favor.  Maybe he didn't even getv >    the majority?  @ OK.  But consider the fact that the House of Representatives andF apparently several fast-food chains etc have renamed "French fries" toG "freedom fries", "French toast" to "freedom toast" etc.  (Reminds me of-B the redefinition of "hamburger" to "Salisbury steak" in England inD WWII.)  This is really racism as a reaction to a foreign government F which expresses a different opinion.  (And, despite weaknesses in the F French presidial system, the government of France can actually make a 2 real claim to having been democratically elected.)  G Of course, the whole point of having a veto right (whether or not some rC countries should, and if so which countries should, is a different 0E question) is that if someone uses that veto right, then the majority sF opinion doesn't matter.  The U.S. has certainly felt free to exercise 0 its veto right against the majority in the past.   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 12:46:31 +0000 (UTC)s+ From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb) 3 Subject: Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants + Message-ID: <b4na76$8ek$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>f  w In article <01KTFS1NPGXE9FRD0S@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:AI >>    My respect for Dubya inched up a tiny bit today when the US put offoI >>    the planned date because of opposition within the security counsel. F >>    I thought he was going to accept the French veto and go with theJ >>    argument that the majority voted in favor.  Maybe he didn't even get >>    the majority?h >TA >OK.  But consider the fact that the House of Representatives and G >apparently several fast-food chains etc have renamed "French fries" tonH >"freedom fries", "French toast" to "freedom toast" etc.  (Reminds me ofC >the redefinition of "hamburger" to "Salisbury steak" in England inn >WWII.)    Is this really happening ?L If so the choice of replacing the word French with Freedom seems rather odd.  C I'd have thought it would cause people to make the association thatoJ FRENCH is equivalent to FREEDOM which would be a bit of a public relations4 own goal from the Bush Administration's perspective.  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University    > > This is really racism as a reaction to a foreign government G >which expresses a different opinion.  (And, despite weaknesses in the eG >French presidial system, the government of France can actually make a E3 >real claim to having been democratically elected.)t >eH >Of course, the whole point of having a veto right (whether or not some D >countries should, and if so which countries should, is a different F >question) is that if someone uses that veto right, then the majority G >opinion doesn't matter.  The U.S. has certainly felt free to exercise  1 >its veto right against the majority in the past.e   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 14:32:21 +0100 (MET)r9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>:3 Subject: Re: National Moratorium to Appease TyrantsD; Message-ID: <01KTFV2V4GCW9H1MPS@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>H  B > OK.  But consider the fact that the House of Representatives andH > apparently several fast-food chains etc have renamed "French fries" toI > "freedom fries", "French toast" to "freedom toast" etc.  (Reminds me ofSD > the redefinition of "hamburger" to "Salisbury steak" in England in	 > WWII.) h >  > Is this really happening ?N > If so the choice of replacing the word French with Freedom seems rather odd.  Y http://www.tagesschau.de/aktuell/meldungen/0,2044,OID1631074_TYP6_THE_PTI_ROI_AMI,00.html1  D It's in German.  "Tagesschau" is the equivalent of BBC News, i.e. a  rather reliable source.t   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 14:44:38 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>n3 Subject: Re: National Moratorium to Appease TyrantsdF Message-ID: <qJHba.5350$a41.3291@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  8 "David Webb" <david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk> wrote in message% news:b4na76$8ek$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk...oE > In article <01KTFS1NPGXE9FRD0S@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillipb3 Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:iC > >>    My respect for Dubya inched up a tiny bit today when the US  put offoB > >>    the planned date because of opposition within the security counsel.D > >>    I thought he was going to accept the French veto and go with thewC > >>    argument that the majority voted in favor.  Maybe he didn't? even get > >>    the majority?f > >nC > >OK.  But consider the fact that the House of Representatives and F > >apparently several fast-food chains etc have renamed "French fries" toD > >"freedom fries", "French toast" to "freedom toast" etc.  (Reminds me of E > >the redefinition of "hamburger" to "Salisbury steak" in England in-	 > >WWII.)o >  > Is this really happening ?B > If so the choice of replacing the word French with Freedom seems rather odd.:  F http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=512&ncid=1278&e=6&u=/% ap/20030312/ap_on_go_co/freedom_friesm   How typically 'Bush League'.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 10:17:39 -0500.! From: VAXVMS <bounce@notmail.com>l3 Subject: RE: National Moratorium to Appease TyrantsiK Message-ID: <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E4903027BD6@rlghncst964.usps.gov>    >cG >>    My respect for Dubya inched up a tiny bit today when the US put =e off.B >>    the planned date because of opposition within the security = counsel.F >>    I thought he was going to accept the French veto and go with theH >>    argument that the majority voted in favor.  Maybe he didn't even = geti >>    the majority?s >hA >OK.  But consider the fact that the House of Representatives andlG >apparently several fast-food chains etc have renamed "French fries" toeG >"freedom fries", "French toast" to "freedom toast" etc.  (Reminds me =  ofC >the redefinition of "hamburger" to "Salisbury steak" in England ineD >WWII.)  This is really racism as a reaction to a foreign governmentF >which expresses a different opinion.  (And, despite weaknesses in theF >French presidial system, the government of France can actually make a3 >real claim to having been democratically elected.)  >pG >Of course, the whole point of having a veto right (whether or not someeC >countries should, and if so which countries should, is a differentoE >question) is that if someone uses that veto right, then the majoritynF >opinion doesn't matter.  The U.S. has certainly felt free to exercise1 >its veto right against the majority in the past.0 >fG    Let's be precise about our terminology.  The word "racism" is in =200<    danger of losing any meaning whatsoever due to frequent = inappropriate=20	    usage.C  B    Unless you think that the French are a race unto themselves,=20)    what you're describing *isn't* racism.l      Main Entry:		rac=B7ism =09i   =20aI    1:	a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and =k  ; 	capacities and that racial differences produce an inherente superiority=20 	of a particular raceh  (    2:	racial prejudice or discrimination  E    The term "prejudice" may or may not have race as its determining => factor1 	so its use would be more proper in this context.   #    Main Entry: 1	prej=B7u=B7dice=20r  D    1: 	injury or damage resulting from some judgment or action of=20> 		another in disregard of one's rights; especially : detriment to=20n 		one's legal rights or claims  /    2	a	(1):	preconceived judgment or opinion=20 8 		(2):	an adverse opinion or leaning formed without just
 grounds or=20t" 				before sufficient knowledge=203    	b: 		an instance of such judgment or opinion=20u=    	c: 		an irrational attitude of hostility directed against  an=20 ) 				individual, a group, a race, or theiru supposed=20N 				characteristicse  F   I'd suggest bigotry, but after looking at the definition of the word	 bigot,=20m6   I'm fearful of the furor that would result :^).  =20 =20    Main Entry: 		big=B7ot=20r  G   1: 	a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own=20e 		opinions and prejudicesf  % 	- big=B7ot=B7ed  /-g&-t&d/ adjectives 	- big=B7ot=B7ed=B7ly adverb=20y  =20F   And anyone who didn't laugh at that last one needs to take a break = from posting.     WWWebb =20I =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=     William W. Webb - EMS Operations) OpenVMS Systems Support - USPS DSSC AnnexC. 4730 Hargrove Road, Raleigh, NC 27616-2874 =20> 919.325.7500 x4186  <FirstInitialLastNameAtEmailDotUSPSDotGov>   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 17:19:55 +0000 (UTC)a+ From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb).3 Subject: Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrantso+ Message-ID: <b4nq7r$dm8$2@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>-  l In article <qJHba.5350$a41.3291@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes: >u9 >"David Webb" <david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk> wrote in messagee& >news:b4na76$8ek$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk...F >> In article <01KTFS1NPGXE9FRD0S@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip4 >Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:D >> >OK.  But consider the fact that the House of Representatives andG >> >apparently several fast-food chains etc have renamed "French fries"i >topE >> >"freedom fries", "French toast" to "freedom toast" etc.  (Remindsr >me ofF >> >the redefinition of "hamburger" to "Salisbury steak" in England in
 >> >WWII.) >> >> Is this really happening ?iC >> If so the choice of replacing the word French with Freedom seems2 >rather odd. >3G >http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=512&ncid=1278&e=6&u=/ & >ap/20030312/ap_on_go_co/freedom_fries >> >How typically 'Bush League'.s >e >p  C It's interesting to note that at least some Republicans are already.M carving up who can and cannot be involved in post war reconstruction projectsS	 in Iraq. f   " N On a more serious note, Republican Jim Saxton of New Jersey has proposed a banN on Pentagon (news - web sites) participation in this year's Paris Air Show andL restrictions on French participation in any postwar construction projects in Iraq.   L But House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, R-Texas, said at a news conference thatM applying legislative sanctions to France was not necessary. "I don't think we0N have to retaliate against France. They've isolated themselves pretty well," he said.3   "o  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 17:44:07 GMTt# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>-3 Subject: Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants5F Message-ID: <HlKba.6734$a41.2304@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  8 "David Webb" <david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk> wrote in message% news:b4nq7r$dm8$2@aquila.mdx.ac.uk...a > In articleA <qJHba.5350$a41.3291@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John  Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:r > >n; > >"David Webb" <david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk> wrote in message'( > >news:b4na76$8ek$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk...@ > >> In article <01KTFS1NPGXE9FRD0S@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillipd6 > >Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:F > >> >OK.  But consider the fact that the House of Representatives andB > >> >apparently several fast-food chains etc have renamed "French fries" > >tot= > >> >"freedom fries", "French toast" to "freedom toast" etc.l (Reminds > >me ofE > >> >the redefinition of "hamburger" to "Salisbury steak" in Englande in > >> >WWII.) > >> > >> Is this really happening ?dE > >> If so the choice of replacing the word French with Freedom seemss > >rather odd. > >- >-F >http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=512&ncid=1278&e=6&u= /i( > >ap/20030312/ap_on_go_co/freedom_fries > >: > >How typically 'Bush League'.  > >e > >- > E > It's interesting to note that at least some Republicans are alreadyeF > carving up who can and cannot be involved in post war reconstruction projects
 > in Iraq. >. > " A > On a more serious note, Republican Jim Saxton of New Jersey hasf proposed a banC > on Pentagon (news - web sites) participation in this year's Paris- Air Show andB > restrictions on French participation in any postwar construction projects in  > Iraq.R >F> > But House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, R-Texas, said at a news conference thatbF > applying legislative sanctions to France was not necessary. "I don't think weF > have to retaliate against France. They've isolated themselves pretty	 well," het > said."    E Reminds me of the kid in the playground saying, "It's MY ball and you ! can't play unless I want you to."y  - Child-like leader, child-like foreign policy.t  F As to Delay's comment, it's the U.S. that is rapidly isolating itself.   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 18:54:32 +0100 (MET)-9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>n3 Subject: Re: National Moratorium to Appease TyrantsR; Message-ID: <01KTG3O2UNYO9H1MPS@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>X  G > Now let's go to a bit of 20th century European history. At the end ofsB > WWII Germany lost territory permanently - Danzig/Gdansk and EastH > Prussia, now part of Poland, and what of Alsace-Lorraine? We don't seeH > Germans today chomping at the bit to goosestep back into those areas.   H Well, a) this is not completely true and b) the situation is not really  comparable.r  G There is a small but vocal minority in Germany of folks who would like kG to see parts of today's Czech Republic, Russia, Poland etc be returned xC to Germany.  These are mostly (representatives of) people who were uI driven out after WWII.  On an individual level, this is certainly a case 7E of using one wrong to justify another, so there is a parallel to the uH Middle East.  But it ends there.  First, one can argue---I'm not saying = it's right---that since Germany started WWII, there was some eH justification in forcing the ethnic Germans to leave what was after the E war no longer part of Germany.  In contrast, the Palestinians didn't tI take their land from Israel by force.  Second, those forced to flee were  G Germans who fled to the mother country; the Palestinians have no where ,I to go: they're not Egyptian, Jordanian etc.  Third, these areas had been tC part of Germany for a relatively short time, had been more or less cE conquered, the Germans were an upper-class minority in the countries _I involved etc.  So the situation might be something like, if there were a 4G war between the UK and Spain, Spain kicking the Brits out of Gibraltar d after winning the war.  H These folks who would like to see a bigger Germany today, usually quite I right-wing on most issues, were/are an important part of the consituency -F of conservative political parties.  At least until the unification of I former East and West Germany became a true possibility, the conservative  F political parties paid at least lip service to this.  Helmut Kohl bit H the bullet and announced at a convention of such folks that the current H border between the former East Germany and Poland is no longer a matter D of debate, and was booed out.  This was probably difficult for him, G alienating a large part of his constituency (not so dangerous, though, eG since they probably still vote for his party if they vote at all), but 0I it was necessary to achieve the unification with the "blessing" of those aB who could have prevented it.  (While I am a big critic of Kohl on F domestic issues, including his handling of unification, he did a good 4 job with the foreign-policy aspects of unification.)   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 18:13:49 -0000?- From: "Steve Spires" <Steve.Spires@torex.com>,3 Subject: RE: National Moratorium to Appease TyrantstE Message-ID: <91947A84607D9D48B8E674A5FAB54DA6854440@tahiti.tinuk.com>e  F There is a similar story in today's Daily Mail stating that the US hasH excluded British companies from any of the rebuilding after the event byB not including them in any bidding process. They say they 'may let'1 British firms bid for other work in the future...o   Steve Spires Technical Consultant Torex Health [T] +44 (0) 1295 274200w [F] +44 (0) 1295 275131w
 www.torex.como   >>-----Original Message-----; >>From: David Webb [mailto:david20@alpha1.axp.mdx.ac.uk]=20a >>Sent: 12 March 2003 17:20. >>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comn5 >>Subject: Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrantsa >> >> >>In article=20s@ >><qJHba.5350$a41.3291@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,=20' >>"John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:1 >>>F> >>>"David Webb" <david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk> wrote in message=20( >>>news:b4na76$8ek$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk...H >>>> In article <01KTFS1NPGXE9FRD0S@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip6 >>>Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:I >>>> >OK.  But consider the fact that the House of Representatives and=20n= >>>> >apparently several fast-food chains etc have renamed=20  >>"French fries" >>>to G >>>> >"freedom fries", "French toast" to "freedom toast" etc.  (Remindsr >>>me ofH >>>> >the redefinition of "hamburger" to "Salisbury steak" in England in >>>> >WWII.) >>>> >>>> Is this really happening ?hE >>>> If so the choice of replacing the word French with Freedom seemsc >>>rather odd. >>>lF >>>http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=3Dstory2&cid=3D512&ncid=3D127
 8&e=3D6&u=3D/ & >ap/20030312/ap_on_go_co/freedom_fries >e >How typically 'Bush League'.  >a >   C It's interesting to note that at least some Republicans are alreadyeD carving up who can and cannot be involved in post war reconstruction projects in Iraq.=20   "iH On a more serious note, Republican Jim Saxton of New Jersey has proposedG a ban on Pentagon (news - web sites) participation in this year's Pariso@ Air Show and restrictions on French participation in any postwar construction projects in Iraq.  G But House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, R-Texas, said at a news conference C that applying legislative sanctions to France was not necessary. "I A don't think we have to retaliate against France. They've isolatedg! themselves pretty well," he said.    "   
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Mar 2003 05:13:28 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)T Subject: Re: Numeric usernames3 Message-ID: <JNb1+iGp6OQm@eisner.encompasserve.org>l  [ In article <3E6E9494.1767BC3E@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:m > Larry Kilgallen wrote:  ? >> Numeric UICs at most would result in user interface problems 5 >> (particularly in programs not part of VMS itself).c >   > Why? A string is a string, no?  C I believe the average program _not_ part of the operating system isiB less likely to take such atypical circumstances into account.  ButB I certainly _have_ seen such errors in VMS components from time to= time over the years (not this precise error, but comparable).r   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 11:12:18 +0000 (UTC) + From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb)3 Subject: Re: Numeric usernames+ Message-ID: <b4n4mi$6uf$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>l  c In article <bSJM8xotvMAE@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: \ >In article <3E6D635F.FF9E5486@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:  >> "Barratt, Chris (FMC)" wrote: >>> N >>> The help for ADD username in authorise states that fully numeric usernamesN >>> should be avoided because numeric identifiers are not allowed and hence an2 >>> identifier for the username cannot be created. >>> J >>> What implications are there in a username not having the correspondingA >>> identifier created ?  (and hence in using numeric usernames).  >> b/ >> Roughly the same as usernames sharing a UIC.3 >  >I disagree strongly.- >-B >Sharing UICs has specific security implications (and there may be% >cases where it is even appropriate).L >n= >Numeric UICs at most would result in user interface problemsr3 >(particularly in programs not part of VMS itself).s    I It can have security implications from a usability point of view as well. N If the username consists of more than about 4 or five numeric characters then 3 it is very easy for people to transpose digits etc.oJ This can have implications if you have large numbers of users and they areP picking up centrally printed out printouts or if the usernames are also used as N email addresses - misdirected mail. (Note. Also many anti-spam programs reject9 all numeric mail from addresses as an anti-spam measure.)f    O If, as is common in many organisations, the same usernames are used on multipleoN systems running different OSs you may also have more severe security problems.O For instance on Unix systems many commands such as chmod treat an alphanumeric  L argument as a username but treat an all numeric argument as a userid. Hence A you could easily end up inadvertently screwing up file ownership.E      
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Mar 2003 06:14:00 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)- Subject: Re: Numeric usernames3 Message-ID: <hdUHr+Wgzhy2@eisner.encompasserve.org>u  Y In article <b4n4mi$6uf$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb) writes:   K > It can have security implications from a usability point of view as well.BP > If the username consists of more than about 4 or five numeric characters then 5 > it is very easy for people to transpose digits etc.h  I But once you have forced users to deal with meaningless digit strings foreI their username, you have the capability to devote many of those digits towJ check codes guaranteeing that simple transpositions will not produce valid
 usernames.  I The original poster should ensure that the governing authority devotes atn9 least 30% of the numeric username length to check digits.s   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 11:21:07 -0500i- From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca>y Subject: Re: Numeric usernames6 Message-ID: <b4nmpr$21sver$1@ID-141708.news.dfncis.de>   Barratt, Chris (FMC) wrote:- > Thanks to all who replied.9 > I am not in favour of numeric usernames, but there is a:
 chance we mayo > be forced into using them.; > From your replies, it would seem it can be done, but withe some+ > workarounds or unforseen problems likely. > > If I cannot avert the move to numeric usernames, I guess the next- > step is to try it out and see what happens.c >...  = In a previous life I had to do this, (we had Ultimate runnings< on a VMS box and an application which was migrated from Pick< running on a Zebra, the application needed 5 digit usernames> which was not a problem on Pick, Ultimate's username had to be< the same as the VMS username... no way around it.) we had no= problems other than having to manually create identifiers fort= the users. In our case the users did very little in VMS, oncet> they logged in they ran the Ultimate image and logged into the application.   -- Peter Weaver: Opinions are my own, and do not reflect the opinions of my	 employer,t> nor the company that it sub-contracts to, nor the company that it sub-contracts to.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 13:02:12 -0400M0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> Subject: Re: Numeric usernames/ Message-ID: <3E6F680E.1A1B21C8@vl.videotron.ca>l   Larry Kilgallen wrote:K > their username, you have the capability to devote many of those digits to.L > check codes guaranteeing that simple transpositions will not produce valid > usernames.  G That was my initial reaction too. And with only numeric digits (reducedaM character set) finding usernames by brute force becomes easier. HOWEVER, wheneJ you have some standard form of username, then you know that the big boss'sH username is "cfiorina"  or "carlyf", but very few would know her numeric employee number.    K > The original poster should ensure that the governing authority devotes ato; > least 30% of the numeric username length to check digits.e  G If you add "random" numbers to a known numeric entity (employee number, D student number),  then you add reasons for users to write down theirI usernames. And if they already write down their password, that would be ah dangerous combination.   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Mar 2003 08:25:10 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ( Subject: Re: One version of a file ONLY.3 Message-ID: <JRn7vPsOADLA@eisner.encompasserve.org>c  s In article <zcpba.6359$se1.3612112@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com>, "Barry in Indy" <barrymeindy@ameritech.net> writes: B > Is there a way in VMS to specify that there is to be one versionA > of a file ONLY, meaning that the creation of a second file withe@ > the same name would fail? We have an online system which is up: > most of the day. But even when it is running, if someoneB > inadvertently copies, say, a set of test files to the productionB > system, new versions of the files are created. What I am lookingC > for is a simple way to avoid this problem. Of course, there wouldh? > also have to be a way to override this protection in order tot > restore files intentionally.  B    Remove D access from all users and set the version limit on the
    file to 1.o  <    Then make sure nobody has the privieges to override this.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 08:20:32 GMT 0 From: rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace)) Subject: Re: OpenVMS on Itanium Questions,0 Message-ID: <3e6eed7a.603341975@news.eircom.net>  F On Mon, 10 Mar 2003 01:52:16 GMT, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote:  G >The electricians and plumbers have it made because their work can't bel2 >sent offshore. Programming work is another story. >fD >Makes you wonder whether a 'blue-collar' trade wouldn't have been a >better choice  C Yeah, people in those trades seem to not only get paid well, but be)B able to pick and choose when, how and for whom they work. I'd takeE that over being a programmer on a salary nowadays without hesitation.S   -- i3 "Mercy to the guilty is treachery to the innocent."a+ Remove killer rodent from address to reply.l! http://www.esatclear.ie/~rwallacew   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 11:45:58 -07000. From: "David D Miller" <ddmiller@raytheon.com>C Subject: Re: OpenVMS system managers and administrators 2nd Edition.F Message-ID: <OF65758411.ACCA878E-ON07256CE7.0066B8AD@rsc.raytheon.com>   Dan:  J I'll post a mesage here when it's published.  In the meantime you may wantK to look at _Getting Started with OpenVMS Management_ which is about 6 weekso from the bookstore shelves.h   dave.l      F In article <OF13B17283.9FF849BE-ON07256CE7.004FE102@rsc.raytheon.com>,- David D Miller <ddmiller@raytheon.com> wrote:  >kF > Hoff made major inroads on the 2nd edition before he was overcome by > OpenVMS/I64.  K Watch out for silicon dust / fumes - don't want that stuff in your lungs ;)i  ; > Pam Chester (from Digital Press) asked me to complete it.  > We're targeting Sept/Oct 03.  D That is certainly good news, and will be looking forward to it! WithK appreciation for all those who worked on it - whether as an author, editor,a& technical reviewer, proof reader, etc.   -Dan   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 16:59:21 +0000 (UTC)d) From: Dan Foster <dsf@globalcrossing.net>iY Subject: Re: OpenVMS system managers and administrators 2nd Edition - ISBN: 1555582435 =? 5 Message-ID: <slrnb6upr5.go5.dsf@gaia.tf.roc.gblx.net>f  t In article <OF13B17283.9FF849BE-ON07256CE7.004FE102@rsc.raytheon.com>, David D Miller <ddmiller@raytheon.com> wrote: >AF > Hoff made major inroads on the 2nd edition before he was overcome by > OpenVMS/I64.  K Watch out for silicon dust / fumes - don't want that stuff in your lungs ;)   ; > Pam Chester (from Digital Press) asked me to complete it.e > We're targeting Sept/Oct 03.  D That is certainly good news, and will be looking forward to it! WithK appreciation for all those who worked on it - whether as an author, editor,h& technical reviewer, proof reader, etc.   -Dan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 07:34:51 -0700,. From: "David D Miller" <ddmiller@raytheon.com>Y Subject: Re: OpenVMS system managers and administrators 2nd Edition - ISBN: 1555582435 =? F Message-ID: <OF13B17283.9FF849BE-ON07256CE7.004FE102@rsc.raytheon.com>   Rob:  	 NOT True.t  D Hoff made major inroads on the 2nd edition before he was overcome byG OpenVMS/I64.  Pam Chester (from Digital Press) asked me to complete it.  We're targeting Sept/Oct 03.   dave.n         Hoff,a  - Is it true that this book has been cancelled?   ? The only book on the topic, OpenVMS System Management Guide, 2eg= details for system administrators the tools, technologies andoD techniques by which they can configure, maintain, and tune computers? running Compaq's OpenVMS operating system. Written by a topicalaF authority and a principal OpenVMS engineer at Compaq, the book enablesA system administrators to perform more efficiently and effectively D those everyday tasks critical to an OpenVMS system. This new edition> explains the new capabilities of OpenVMS versions 7.2 and 7.3,C including new networking technologies, Web server hosting features,o= the OpenVMS Galaxy multiprocessor infrastructure, and runningi+ Microsoft's COM object standard on OpenVMS.-     Cheers.M   Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 12:22:15 +0000:' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK ConsultancysY Subject: Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marveland Alpha RetaiP. Message-ID: <3E6F2677.3030209@nospamn.sun.com>   Keith Parris wrote:  > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<3E6CB3FF.1070701@nospamn.sun.com>...n > 7 >>Had you forgotten that you used a cluster in a box tou >>get decent performance.o >  > H > Vendors use various creative configurations of technologies to get theD > best performance, especially for benchmarks.  Unless the benchmarkH > rules prohibit a particular optimization, all's fair.  It happens that? > clustering is one way to scale.  If Sun can't gain additional - > performance through clustering, tough luck.x  ? Great posting, but you have just displayed a staggering lack oft= understanding about how TPC-C works when run on a cluster. Or ' rather how it doesn't run on a cluster.R  > TPC-C's warehouse scheme and clients executing queries againstB a fixed warehouse makes the TPC-C workload perfectly partitionable> and therefore almost perfectly scalable in a "cluster" because> the resulting setup makes almost no use of the cluster itself.  ? The largest TPC-C benchmark results in terms of throughput have < been posted by the vendors who have been prepared to put the= largest number of servers into a benchmark facility connectedt# together using a bit of wet string.   ? OpenVMS supports Memory Channel a very low latency interconnecteE to improve cluster perfromance and scalability, HP have HyperChannel, @ you could also use Myranet or SCI and if you really wanted to goD for broke then you could use SunFire Link now guess what the fastest; "cluster" in the world as far as TPC-C is concerned used ??d  > Yup Gigabit Ethernet, no shared storage, single connection per server etc etc etc.W  ; Now this is entirely within the TPC-C rules, but it doesn'th= make the result any more usefull and it only serves to reducee= the value of the benchmark result as a whole, if only becauseI: people like me have to explain to people like you that the7 configuration used by Compaq (who were the offendor) isi; worthless as a platform to host the vast majority of updateH intensive OLTP applications.  9 Sun doesn't depreciate clustering far from it we have oner= of the lowest latency highest bandwidth cluster interconnectsr; on the market (SunFire Link) and you don't get that withouto a goodly investment.  > But there are appropriate and inappropriate uses of clustering technology with databases.   Inappropariate uses are:  = Scalability for databases unless you happen to have exhaustedu@ the throughput of the largest DBMS server you can buy. In almost> all real scenarios rather than TPC-C  and the others mentioned@ below. Clustering for scalability will cost you more than buying< a larger SMP server and will give you more variable results.    > Hiding SMP NUMA latency issues by clustering in a box, just go5 and buy a better designed system from another vendor.m   Appropriate uses are:M  G High availability/DR, TPC-C and other perfectly partitionable databasest and read only DBMS's.e    ? To illustrate this we have just run a set of cluster benchmarksr9 along with HP for a customer. We used 4 CPU nodes and SCI ? HP used 4 CPU nodes and HyperChannel (we had tried GigE earlier": and it didn't do very well). Shared storage parallel DBMS.B We did better than HP from a scalability and throughput standpoint@ but even from a hardware perspective the customer concluded that@ buying F6800/F15K with the same capacity as 4 node cluster would< be cheaper once you factored in the node costs, interconnect; costs and the shared storage costs. This didn't include the = additional per CPU costs for the DBMS or the parallel option.s   Regardsa Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 12:34:03 +0000 ' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK ConsultancyoY Subject: Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marveland Alpha Retai . Message-ID: <3E6F293B.1020408@nospamn.sun.com>   Main, Kerry wrote:	 > Andrew,j > I > Sigh .. One more time - if you do not agree with the TPC rules, get theiJ > TPC Council to change them. Don't continue bringing up this old argument7 > which has been discussed a few hundred times before. t > I > The TPC says the GS benchmark is fine. You disagree. Fine - so have Suno" > lobby to get the rules changed.  >   : Thats not the point and you know it. The TPC-C rules don't: preclude the cluster in a box config or the shared nothing7 config because no one expected them to be used when then; origional run rules were written and given TPC-C's majorityh: voting rules and the fact that Compaq, HP and IBM have all8 sunk substantial sums on money into producing results of= this type it is unlikely that rule changes are in the offing.   6 None of this alters the fact that the cluster in a box6 config or the shared nothing configs now present a set3 of TPC-C results that have no use in the real worlde3 because very few real world apps are as amenable toa this kind of setup as TPC-C.  ; That was not the origional intention when TPC-C was writtent6 to be a tool for measuring the relative performance of- systems running a set of simple OLTP queries.x  = Compaq was the first vendor to come out with a shared nothingc8 TPC-C result and this pioneering approach has helped end' TPC-C's relevance as an OLTP benchmark.a   Regardst Andrew Harrisons  	 > Regards  >  >  > Kerry Main > Senior Consultanta > Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.# > Consulting & Integration Servicesr > Voice: 613-592-4660h > Fax   : 613-591-4477 > Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom/ >     (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s)r! > OpenVMS DCL - the original .COM  >  > -----Original Message-----) > From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancyh1 > [mailto:Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com] h > Sent: March 10, 2003 10:49 AMt > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com-E > Subject: Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release foreD > Marveland Alpha Retain Trust Alpha Retain Trust Alpha Retain Trust >  > J > Kerry only you could inject a GS1280 performance benchmark result into aI > discusion about Compaq/HP's inability to justify the performance claims  > they made for the GS160/320. > ; > And trust you to try to reintroduce the TPC-C results forn6 > the GS320 which if you hadn't forgotten are actually9 > evidence for the prosecution not the defense since theyn3 > prove that there is a big NUMA performance issue.  > 7 > Had you forgotten that you used a cluster in a box toe > get decent performance.w > 5 > And had yopu also forgotten that this is one of the_4 > reasons why Sun doesn't do TPC-C, because the kind4 > of tuning method used by indevidual companies such> > as Compaq has degrade the value of the benchmark as a whole. > < > You are as always tremendous value but not to your allies. > 	 > Regards  > Andrew Harrisons > Main, Kerry wrote: >  >>Tim, >>7 >><<< .  And I'm afraid, you just lost the argument.<<<b >>H >>If you have been lurking for awhile, then you know that no matter what >  > F >>evidence HP puts up, Andrew is going to counter with his own fud to E >>counter it. That's fine - he's a competitor and that is his way of e' >>promoting his own companies products.h >>C >>Case in point - he asks where are some performance numbers. Ok - iH >>http://www.sap.com/benchmark/index.asp?content=http://www.sap.com/benc >>hm >>ark/sd2tier.aspw >>G >>Sun - 1,789,000 dialog steps per hr - 72 cpu Sunfire 15K Oracle 9i - gH >>Feb 10, 2003 HP - 1,393,000 dialog steps per hr - 32 cpu GS1280 Oracle >  >  >>9i - Jan 27/2003 >>E >>Given Oracle charges per cpu, I'd say the GS1280 does ok. Note the oF >>dates of release. Sun felt they needed to have a bigger number, but + >>needed 72 CPUs to get that bigger number.  >>F >>And even his age old argument about the GS320 - still on the top 10 H >>single system TPC, while Sun has 0 entries on the TPC list. Reference: >  > H >>http://www.tpc.org/tpcc/results/tpcc_perf_results.asp?resulttype=noncl >>us >>ter&version=5o >> >  > G >>Now, Andrew will respond with but, but, but .. And so it continues...  >>	 >>Regards  >> >> >>Kerry Main >>Senior Consultantn >>Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.# >>Consulting & Integration Servicesi >>Voice: 613-592-46603 >>Fax   : 613-591-4477 >>Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom/ >>    (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s) ! >>OpenVMS DCL - the original .COM  >> >>-----Original Message-----7 >>From: Tim Walls [mailto:timwa@stamford.snowgoons.com]h >>Sent: March 7, 2003 7:11 PMe >>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com E >>Subject: Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release fore >>Marveland Alpha Retain Trust >> >>: >>In article <mqnh6vsel43b1vpf9usq1g05nhpc4oc2kb@4ax.com>,+ >>	jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com> writes:e >> >>H >>>On Fri, 07 Mar 2003 17:07:14 +0000, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy1 >>><Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote:e >>> F >>>Typical Andrew useless response.  Still saying that I have to proveD >>>that the GS160s perform well on some apps, while he still hasn't I >>>proven his contention that it won't perform well for any apps.  What ao >> >>	 >>>crock.l >> >>H >>No offence, but I speak as an independent observer who's been lurking H >>in this group for quite a while...  And I'm afraid, you just lost the  >>argument.o >>D >>Jesus, what is it with you guys?  (That is, HP+Cpaq et al.)  As a E >>customer, I'd kinda expect you to jump at the chance to prove your .F >>product performs well.  This whole "if you don't think our stuff is H >>great it's obviously because you're ignorant - go on, prove me wrong" H >>attitude is just one reason why I won't be spending my company's money >  > H >>on your kit.  Which is a crying shame, because I have a great deal of 5 >>respect for DEC and the engineers who produced VMS.  >>G >>I find it depressing because I think competition is a good thing for aC >>development.  But you aren't competing - you're clinging on to a eE >>rapidly shrinking customer base while trying to pretend it doesn't  F >>matter because the people on 'your' side are somehow better, and so F >>more important, than everyone else on 'their' side.  But eventually H >>everyone on 'your' side is going to be dead, and by then it'll be too  >>late.7 >> >><Sigh> >>
 >>Regards,A >>Tim.  (A lurker, who lurks because he respects VMS - but has nos > 	 > respect  > , >>       at all for its vendor right now...) >  >  >    ------------------------------    Date: 12 Mar 2003 01:20:06 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)u: Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants3 Message-ID: <VD51sfI$7mxG@eisner.encompasserve.org>	  _ In article <icucnZAmwsmqTPOjXTWcoQ@metrocast.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:, > : > "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message/ > news:3gBrxvFJ6l5G@eisner.encompasserve.org...hA >> In article <DDidnWJ7WYM8y_OjXTWcow@metrocast.net>, "Bill Todd")" > <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes: >> >= >> > "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in messager2 >> > news:OQ4RTiPRlqgm@eisner.encompasserve.org... >  > ...- > < >> >> The absolute worst thing that could happen would be toH >> >> do nothing, and *as a result* a catastrophe occurs that kills manyD >> >> Americans here again.  And after the fact it was determined to >> >> originate in Iraq. >  > ...a > J >> > Your logic would support going to war against any number of countries > thatK >> > *might* at some point try to do us harm.  And several of them actuallya > have- >> > tried to do so in the past, unlike Iraq.a >> > >>A >> Where do you see that in the words I wrote?  I don't see that.a > K > I interpreted your statement still quoted above as your justification fornK > going to war with Iraq (i.e., because of what might happen if we didn't).i3 > If that's what you meant, then my comment stands.> >  >>? >> >   It won't win a popularity contest and it certainly won't 3 >> >> change or differ much across administrations.  >> >M >> > Well, Carter has already come out publicly against war with Iraq at thistM >> > time, so it's pretty clear that at least *one* past Administration wouldeM >> > have differed quite markedly indeed.  Of course, since war with Iraq hashH >> > absolutely nothing to do with terrorism save in the rhetoric of theA >> > Administration spin-doctors, perhaps that wasn't your point.b >> > >>A >> Good example in Carter and you really had to dig for that one.I > M > Not really.  What's more interesting is that there's considerable reason to J > believe that Dubya's father doesn't approve of this course of action (atK > least not without U.N. approval), though he clearly isn't about to say so M > publicly:  it's precisely the strategy that he unequivocally renounced whenv+ > Wolfowitz proposed it after the Gulf War.  > E >> Why not mention some of the current democratic candidates that areuH >> against it?  Very short list?   How about former president Clinton or >> Senator Hillary Clinton?s > N > Hillary and Chuck Schumer are caught even worse than the rest of their partyN > by the Administration's astute capitalization upon 9/11 to advance their ownI > objectives (ironic, considering how careful we thought VMS needed to benN > about not appearing to try to profit from 9/11).  As a New York Senator, anyK > appearance of being 'soft on terrorism' (and Dubya has at least partiallyaN > succeeded in hoodwinking the public into believing that Saddam and terrorismK > are closely connected) after 9/11 is anathema (New York House members may:N > have a bit more latitude, depending on the location and composition of theirJ > district).  And looking soft on Iraq (hardly a friend of Israel) isn't aM > good idea either (especially for Hillary, given a couple of gaffes she madeH( > earlier that upset the Jewish voters). > L > Other things being equal I'd expect Bill to have sense enough to speak outM > against moving without U.N. approval.  But given Hillary's position, he may.L > feel it more prudent just to agree that Saddam is a baddie who ought to beK > dealt with without making it clear that it's the U.N. which should do thei
 > dealing. >   A 	Exactly.  Right down the line.  So, what about the capitulation?d9 	Bet Hillary is biting her tongue as she is in a quandry.e   >>M >> "WASHINGTON - The House of Representatives yesterday approved a resolutioneJ >> giving President Bush authority to wage war on Iraq  and the Senate was > poised >> to go along.  >>M >> The finally tally in the House vote was 296 to 133, with the 14-member News > YorkF >> City delegation evenly divided. Both of New Yorks senators  Hillary
 > Clinton and&- >> Charles Schumer  endorsed the resolution."s >> >>C >> You see , politics results in strange bedfellows.  And it reallyt >> is about politics.m > 
 > Yes, it is.l > / >    Or is it?  Or would some of these folks ben >> voting on principle?  > L > Those who opposed the resolution giving up Congress's Constitutional rightF > to control initiating a war *did* vote on principle.  A lot of theirN > colleagues would have joined them had they not been fearful of being branded > unpatriotic. >   ? 	But it doesn't read that way.  Go read some of the text of theeD 	speeches for Democrats that voted in favor (like the quotes below).  2 >>   A true liberal would oppose war at all costs. > 8 > You've already been corrected elsewhere on that point.  .  	Not really.  It was a zinger laying in wait.   >  My own opposition toeH > the proposed war would be drastically reduced (I still don't think I'dF > approve of it, since I'd still consider it avoidable) if it had U.N. > approval.  > G >> So these democrats that voted to authorize the president to wage war : >> aren't even good liberals.  Or maybe liberals gone bad? > M > Some may actually agree on principle.  But I think many were afraid to vote 6 > their conscience, and I don't forgive them for that. >   9 	Okay.  But I say they did vote their conscience and many ; 	gave rousing speeches proclaiming their agreement.  Right?r= 	So their capitulation is really odious.  They not only votedPC 	for supporting a war resolution BUT they gave speeches/sound bitesm 	endorsing with strong words.       9 Mr. Schumer also spoke firmly in favor of the resolution.b  I "In the post-9/11 world inaction is not an option, Saddam Hussein must benN defanged, he said.  This resolution will show Hussein and any naysayers at the? United Nations that we are serious about the war on terrorism."l  K Sometimes doing nothing is riskier than doing nothing. War must be our lastuL resort...we cannot afford to leave him alone over the next five, or even theM next three years.... The only language Hussein understands is the language ofn power.."  1 	Perhaps he was just playing it up for the press?e   				Robr   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 07:52:23 GMTaL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr"): Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants6 Message-ID: <00A1CBB1.B9861141@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  a In article <k3JpQIMIwcEf@eisner.encompasserve.org>, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:r >In article <00A1CB8F.7C9F3222@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>, winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") writes:d >> In article <3gBrxvFJ6l5G@eisner.encompasserve.org>, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes: >>>eD >>>	You see , politics results in strange bedfellows.  And it reallyC >>>	is about politics.   Or is it?  Or would some of these folks beyJ >>>	voting on principle?   A true liberal would oppose war at all costs.  I >>>	So these democrats that voted to authorize the president to wage war t; >>>	aren't even good liberals.  Or maybe liberals gone bad?e >> iF >> Where does it say "a true liberal would oppose war at all costs"?   >t >	That is an easy one: > G >"This is the 21st century. War is no longer acceptable as a solution."d >b
 >	JF Mezei >	March 6, 2003y >d >l >> Liberal != Pacifist.  >> d >t >a+ >> FDR was true liberal, for heaven's sake.t >r, >	Yes.  But not a true 21st century liberal. >	  N JF doesn't speak for all liberals.  I don't think you'd like it if I chose theE statements of someone you disagreed with and claimed he spoke for allh conservatives.     -- Alanh  O ===============================================================================i0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056-M  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025vO ===============================================================================g   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 09:33:58 +0100s' From: BAVAY Marc - GRE <mbavay@slb.com>a: Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants' Message-ID: <3E6EF0F6.75C0E8A3@slb.com>n   hello everyone  : I am new to this group, I was searching for VMS stuff ....E and I bumped into this somewhat off-topic but interesting discussion.  see, I'm french T and I saw that article today : http://www.nationalreview.com/ledeen/ledeen031003.aspP by Michael Leeden proposing a theory that explicitely accuses France and GermanyL to have made a pact with islamist extremists to destry the United States ...J and this guy work for Benador Associates, who are VERY close to the peopleH in power at the White House (not talking about George W. Bush of course)` please tell me that this kind of delirium does not reflect the opinion of the american people... have a good dayc marc   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 03:47:34 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>: Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants/ Message-ID: <3E6EE607.9DF8F56D@vl.videotron.ca>s   Rob Young wrote:P > > This si why, the minute the USA startts its invasion of Iraq, *ANY* evidenceP > > that the USA magically uncovers cannot be trusted because the USA could haveK > > planted it in order to justify its illegal invasion of another country.a > >n >  >         Nonsense.c  M The minute the flight controllers declared COlumbia lost, they had procedures:F come into effect to prevent any tampering of evidence, computers takenI offline, phone lines cut off, doors locked etc. This, to ensure that theyaO could not be any impropeiety or tampered evidence to hide any human errors etc.e  J The minute the UN inspectors leave and the USA invades, there is nobody toG ensure that the USA doesn't tamper with any evidence, doesn't plant anyfL evidence etc. At that point, any evidence the USA military cannot prove thatV any evidence it claims to have found was not planted. It is a question of due process.  L The current inspectors are doing auditing work to ensure that Iraq is clean.M It is slow tedious and meticulous process, just like real honest auditors whoo audit a company.  F It is very likely that after the USA has unleashed thousands of cruiseL missiles to destroy Iraq that it won't really find anything that proves thatI Iraq still had banned weapons (*IF* it still does, we don't know for 100%2M sure), and the USA would be very tempted to plant such weapons so it can show:( the world it was right in invading Iraq.  K Oh, and by the way, they will still need some inspectors to redo a completedJ audit (start from scratch) to ensure nothing is left for the varous tribalN factiosn to take control of and use at their discretion while the USA militaryG is busy installing a puppet government. and inspectors won't be able to,O complete that job before those factions are able to sell those weapons etc etc.s    D The precedents that will be set by this invasion are very dangerous.K 1- any country will know that it should hurry up to develop nuclear weapons M because it knows that with a nuke, it won't get destroyed by the USA (compare * USA treatment of Iraq vs Iran and N-Korea)  M 2- Any country with eyes on another one will be able to use the precedent seteH by the USA to pre-emptively invade a country. China could invade Taiwan,T claiming that Taiwan had weapons aimed at china and was therefore a danger to China.  L I wish France, Russia, China, Germany and Syria were less diplomatic at thisM point in time and really tell it like it is and not be affraid to accuse BushoN Jr of being inexperienced in intl affairs and not knowing what he is doing. InJ a way, they have nothing to lose because Bush Jr has already declared themK ennemies. It is Bush Jr who is dividing the western world, not the reverse.i   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 11:41:54 +0000 ' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancys: Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants. Message-ID: <3E6F1D02.3040903@nospamn.sun.com>   Alan E. Feldman wrote:f > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message news:<DsqdnRi_cvBToPOjXTWcqw@metrocast.net>... > : >>"David Webb" <david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk> wrote in message' >>news:b4l9t3$inl$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk...y >> >>...i >> >> >>>See >>M >> http://users.mweb.co.za/l/ll/lloyd/5-SpecialStudies/JewishHostilities.html  >>K >>>for a non Jewish view of the conflict. Note in particular the Jewish use  >> >> ofn >>G >>>terrorist attacks on Arab Buses in Palestine, letter and book bombs,f >>
 >> attacks ona >>1 >>>Hotels etc before the establishment of Israel.. >> > & > Non-Jewish doesn't imply non-biased. >  l > L >>Thanks.  My vague recollection was that nothing the Palestinian extremistsH >>are now doing was any worse than some of the atrocities perpetrated byN >>Jewish extremists back then (and continuing, though diminished, considerablyD >>thereafter), but specifics are far preferable to dimming memories. >  > G > Did the Jews brainwash teenagers into blowing themselves up? Did theyeH > hide suicide bombers in ambulances? Did you take motives into account? >   = No but they helped create an environment where extremists are-< able to convince young suicide bombers that this is the only sensible course of action.  > Gaza is an ideal environemt for extermists to flourish, Israel8 is just as responsible for the conditions in Gaza as the Palestinian Authority.   Regards. Andrew Harrisonr   > [...]  >  > Alan E. Feldmanp   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 12:21:33 +0000 (UTC) + From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb)t: Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants+ Message-ID: <b4n8od$88g$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>t  n In article <b096a4ee.0303111752.1f55a944@posting.google.com>, spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes:e >"Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message news:<DsqdnRi_cvBToPOjXTWcqw@metrocast.net>...e; >> "David Webb" <david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk> wrote in messages( >> news:b4l9t3$inl$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk... >> iF >Additionally, I am under the impression that the land of Israel has aD >lot more Jewish history to it than any other. I can't even think ofG >any other history in that land, but I can think of much Jewish historyd >in that land.  : As I recall the Arabs have been there as long as the Jews.J I seem to recall that both the Jews and Arabs are descendents of Abraham - see for instance  ! http://www.jewfaq.org/origins.htm   L Unfortunately I don't know if any of the descendents of the Caananites whoseJ claim to the land would predate that of the sons of Abraham still exist :)    
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University     >tE >And Bill, you yourself admit many holes in your knowledge of IsraeliaF >history, but you are quick to condemn Israel nonetheless. You thought@ >Israel started the Yom Kippur war. You didn't even know how theC >boundaries evolved over most of the history of Israel and you comeoF >here and just pound away with endless criticism. I really don't think
 >that's fair.e >eD >And I don't think it's fair to give the impression that all IsraeliE >actions were just done for the hell of it. The vast majority, if notoC >all of it, was in reaction to violence perpetrated against Israel. F >Even if you justify that violence (against Israel), you should expectD >a people to defend itself and you must suffer the consequences. YouE >don't punch a bigger, more powerful person in the face, get wallopedjB >because that's all the bigger person can do to stop you, and then= >complain about being walloped! Yet this is what we see here.t >cG >And for the sake of the last 5% of the OTs, is it really worth all thetG >losses suffered by both sides because of the Intifada? Would it reallysC >have been so terrible if the Palestinians had accepted or at leastrE >tried to bargain with Ehud? All this extra suffering for a tiny parte >of a small land?t >aB >And do you really think that if the U.S. just suddenly meets yourE >standards of international behaviour the Al Qaeda will just suddenlyn@ >pack up and go away, with an apology to boot? That's just plain >ridiculous. >s >Alan E. Feldman   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 14:48:33 GMTu# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>o: Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease TyrantsF Message-ID: <5NHba.5371$a41.2778@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message-, news:IeicnSsuGapBVPOjXTWcoA@metrocast.net... >8? > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in messageK+ > news:3E6E75F8.67C8C06B@vl.videotron.ca...O > > Rob Young wrote:E > > > "WASHINGTON - The House of Representatives yesterday approved a1 > resolutionB > > > giving President Bush authority to wage war on Iraq  and the
 Senate was > poised > > > to go along. > > > B > > > The finally tally in the House vote was 296 to 133, with the	 14-memberi
 > New York@ > > > City delegation evenly divided. Both of New Yorks senators Hillaryh
 > Clinton and 0 > > > Charles Schumer  endorsed the resolution." > >  > >aA > > Was this something that was passed last fall at a time it was 
 hoped that > theWA > > UN would back the USA, or is this passed recently when it waso obvious that > the A > > USA had failed to produce the evidence needed to convince itse
 allies and > thus; > > was going alone to invade Iraq without any legitimacy ?o >iD > Passed last October, before Resolution 1441.  Most people probably found itB > as inconceivable as I did that we'd actually plan to invade Iraq without3C > U.N. approval, and politicians were fearful of being demonized as:@ > unpatriotic if they did not support Dubya in what he was still0 > characterizing as part of the 'war on terror'.    D Hypothetically (or not), if the US unilaterally invades Iraq withoutF U.N. approval, then de facto the U.S. is in violation of internationalF law regarding the waging of 'aggressive war'. The U.N. could then callF for the disarmament of the U.S. and the imposition of sanctions on the U.S.   True or False?   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 14:58:40 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>r: Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease TyrantsF Message-ID: <AWHba.5424$a41.3875@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  4 "BAVAY Marc - GRE" <mbavay@slb.com> wrote in message! news:3E6EF0F6.75C0E8A3@slb.com...  > hello everyone >3< > I am new to this group, I was searching for VMS stuff ....; > and I bumped into this somewhat off-topic but interestingn discussion.e > see, I'm french1  > and I saw that article today :5 http://www.nationalreview.com/ledeen/ledeen031003.aspiF > by Michael Leeden proposing a theory that explicitely accuses France and GermanySC > to have made a pact with islamist extremists to destry the United 
 States ...E > and this guy work for Benador Associates, who are VERY close to the, peopleB > in power at the White House (not talking about George W. Bush of course)e@ > please tell me that this kind of delirium does not reflect the! opinion of the american people...w > have a good dayo    C The article is initially positioned as a hypothetical framework buttF later on it assumes life as a probable hypothesis. That some in the USA government or in positions of influence near the government mightw* believe this would not come as a surprise.  B Politics and reality don't necessarily have to correlate - if BushE believed in Roswell aliens but there was no proof of them and general B population didn't believe in them either, there'd still be billionB dollar programs devoted to an Interplanetary Alien Defense Shield.4 Call it politics or call it stupidity - your choice.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 15:05:15 GMTM# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> : Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease TyrantsF Message-ID: <L0Iba.5461$a41.2283@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  . <rob.buxton@wcc.spam.govt.nz> wrote in message news:3e6e78fb.428953392@news...m >oC > In the meantime I'll stay with the BBC and programs like Panoramao forw) > insight into the Middle East situation.   C A program with a history of being fair, balanced, yet not afraid tot2 take shots at people or policies when appropriate.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 15:16:18 GMT0# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>r: Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease TyrantsF Message-ID: <6bIba.5522$a41.5117@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messageO, news:vtudnZbPYNRgVfOjXTWcqg@metrocast.net... >i >n >  And this is after beingF > > double-crossed by the British. I don't think the Arabs did much to: > > kick out the British, but I may well be wrong on that. >iC > I'm ashamed to admit that my only memory of that issue comes fromp	 "Lawrence B > of Arabia" (which of course does indicate that they attempted to	 take overnD > rule themselves, but which may or may not be historically accurate on thate	 > point).   = If you read some history of British involvement in the eventstD regarding the Middle East, beginning from about 1900 through WWI andF the 1917 Balfour Declaration, and then to deliberations of the BritishA Government at the end of WWII through 1948, you will see that thesE British policy was all over the map, so to speak. Arabs and Jews bothe< got screwed in one way or another, to one degree or another.  @ Sorry Bill, but I'm going to have to suggest you visit the localC public or nearest university library to read the details. Or take a-F short drive down to Boston/Cambridge and 'burbs - there you have largeD Muslim and Jewish communities, where I'm sure you can find many well> educated individuals who have made entire careers of trying to understand this mess.p   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 17:31:11 +0100A9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>:: Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants' Message-ID: <3E6F60CF.BBA4D53B@aaa.com>   7 May I sudgest the book "Desert Queen" by Janet Wallach.r, Written in 1996 and with ISBN 91 518 2964 9.  9 The "Desert Queen" was Gertrude Bell (1868-1926). She wase8 working her whole adult life in the Middle East together8 with men like colonel Thomas Edward Lawrence (yes, *the*7 Lawrence of Arabia. Some might think that that's just a 8 fictitious character from a film...), sir Percy Cox (who9 personaly made the last adjustments to what was to become : the Iraq borders) and she was a very good friend with most9 leaders in the region, particularly in the different Arabs parties.  C Anyway, this book gives a good background to the mess we are seeingp= now in the area, and it also makes one think about the reasons? that the UK are so engaged in it. Maybe some feeling of guilt ?t   Jan-Erik Sderholm   John Smith wrote:e > 7 > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messages. > news:vtudnZbPYNRgVfOjXTWcqg@metrocast.net...E > > I'm ashamed to admit that my only memory of that issue comes fromt
 > > "Lawrence D > > of Arabia" (which of course does indicate that they attempted to
 > > take overtF > > rule themselves, but which may or may not be historically accurate > > on that  > > point).u > ? > If you read some history of British involvement in the eventsuF > regarding the Middle East, beginning from about 1900 through WWI andH > the 1917 Balfour Declaration, and then to deliberations of the BritishC > Government at the end of WWII through 1948, you will see that theeG > British policy was all over the map, so to speak. Arabs and Jews botho> > got screwed in one way or another, to one degree or another. > B > Sorry Bill, but I'm going to have to suggest you visit the localE > public or nearest university library to read the details. Or take apH > short drive down to Boston/Cambridge and 'burbs - there you have largeF > Muslim and Jewish communities, where I'm sure you can find many well@ > educated individuals who have made entire careers of trying to > understand this mess.u   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 16:14:07 GMTt# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>g: Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease TyrantsF Message-ID: <j1Jba.5934$a41.3888@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  # "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy"a8 <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message( news:3E6F1D02.3040903@nospamn.sun.com... >  >l > Alan E. Feldman wrote:9 > > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messager. news:<DsqdnRi_cvBToPOjXTWcqw@metrocast.net>... > > < > >>"David Webb" <david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk> wrote in message) > >>news:b4l9t3$inl$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk...a > >> > >>...a > >> > >> > >>>See > >> > >>F http://users.mweb.co.za/l/ll/lloyd/5-SpecialStudies/JewishHostilities. html > >>B > >>>for a non Jewish view of the conflict. Note in particular the
 Jewish use > >> > >> of  > >>B > >>>terrorist attacks on Arab Buses in Palestine, letter and book bombs, > >> > >> attacks one > >>3 > >>>Hotels etc before the establishment of Israel.a > >> > >t( > > Non-Jewish doesn't imply non-biased. > >p > >cC > >>Thanks.  My vague recollection was that nothing the Palestiniana
 extremists; > >>are now doing was any worse than some of the atrocitiess perpetrated byC > >>Jewish extremists back then (and continuing, though diminished,i considerablyF > >>thereafter), but specifics are far preferable to dimming memories. > >- > >-D > > Did the Jews brainwash teenagers into blowing themselves up? Did theyA > > hide suicide bombers in ambulances? Did you take motives intot account? > >r > ? > No but they helped create an environment where extremists are@> > able to convince young suicide bombers that this is the only > sensible course of action. >g@ > Gaza is an ideal environemt for extermists to flourish, Israel: > is just as responsible for the conditions in Gaza as the > Palestinian Authority.     Andrew,t  D That's pretty disingenuous of you to say that. Where is the personalF responsibility of the individuals, their parents, their school system,C their political leaders? Moderates within the Palestinian community 5 are routinely assassinated by Palestinian extremists.e  : Lets get a couple of other things clear while we're at it:  D A) First the geography - The West Bank is not a country unto itself,A nor is it Palestine. Prior to 1968 it was an integral part of theeC Kingdom of Jordan. West Bank is a descriptive term to indicate thatgF part of Jordan located between the Israeli border and the west bank of the Jordan River.c  D B) All residents of the 'West Bank' in 1968 were Jordanian citizens,D not Palestinians. They had full rights to live and work in Jordan at
 that time.  D C) I do not believe that Jordan has formally renounced claim on that land known as the 'West Bank'.  D D) For years after 1973 Jordan had a modus vivendi with Israel, withC goods flowing both ways across the Jordan River. Jordan was placingP4 its economic well being ahead of the 'Palestinians'.  @ E) Gaza was national territory of Egypt up to the signing of the Israel-Egypt treaty.  C F) Thereafter Egypt effectively said to the people living in Gaza -.F "F*ck you - You aren't Egyptians any more. We don't care what you callE yourselves or whether you have a country you call your own or not. In F fact, we don't care if you live or die. You go figure it out. You want5 Arafat as a leader - fine, see where that leads you."o    C I would suggest that the vast majority of the 'rage' you ascribe toaE people in Gaza ought to be directed at the government of Egypt.  I ameC not 100% sure of all the drawing of lines on the map between IsraelhD and Gaza but let's just call it that there's a narrow buffer zone atF the border.For all practical purposes Gaza is the same size as it ever< was and nobody in Gaza who was there in 1968 or 1973 need beF considered a refugee form their home, ie. the land under their home is still part of Gaza.   E With respect to the 'West Bank', some land has been used to constructvF Israeli settlements, roads, and other infrastructure. The constructionD of roads and infrastructure is a normal part of any society - take aA look around London or any city in Europe, Africa, anywhere in the D world. Population grows, infrastructure grows. No farmer or residentF likes to lose their land or house to a road or electrical distributionB station, but that's what happens in every country around the worldD from time to time. Are the 'Palestinians' bitching about this or areE they simply bitching because it was the Israeli government that built> the infrastructure?d  B As far as the settlements are concerned, I am in disagreement withF their having been constructed. While the Israeli government should notE have built them, in my opinion, they did in fact buy the land via the C mechanisms available to them, same as any other government anywheretE else in the world - willing sellers and/or compensated expropriation.rD Now I can understand about being more p*ssed off about this than theB construction of roads, etc.. But don't forget that under the BarakC plan, rejected by Arafat, most of these settlements would revert toiE Palestinian control and they could do with them what wished - live in E them, or demolish them and hand the land back to the original owners.   E Now let's go to a bit of 20th century European history. At the end of @ WWII Germany lost territory permanently - Danzig/Gdansk and EastF Prussia, now part of Poland, and what of Alsace-Lorraine? We don't seeE Germans today chomping at the bit to goosestep back into those areas.hB Jordan/Palestine, whatever you want to call it is going to have to? face facts about small portions (5%) of the West Bank including ? Jerusalem - they aren't going to get them back, ever. Just liket Germany.  ? If Arafat thinks that he is doing his 'people' a service by not>F recognizing and accepting this reality, he's on drugs. It's his hubrisA and ego that has caused many years of suffering for 'his' people.p    C The propaganda machine cannot change facts, only your perception of D them, so be the intelligent person you are and accept the facts, not the propaganda.t   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 17:11:53 +0000 (UTC)o+ From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb)e: Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants+ Message-ID: <b4npop$dm8$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>g  l In article <5NHba.5371$a41.2778@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes: >,6 >"Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message- >news:IeicnSsuGapBVPOjXTWcoA@metrocast.net...l >>@ >> "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message, >> news:3E6E75F8.67C8C06B@vl.videotron.ca... >> > Rob Young wrote:eF >> > > "WASHINGTON - The House of Representatives yesterday approved a
 >> resolution C >> > > giving President Bush authority to wage war on Iraq  and thee >Senate was>	 >> poisedu >> > > to go along.. >> > >C >> > > The finally tally in the House vote was 296 to 133, with thei
 >14-member >> New YorkPA >> > > City delegation evenly divided. Both of New Yorks senatorsh >Hillary >> Clinton and1 >> > > Charles Schumer  endorsed the resolution."t >> > >> >B >> > Was this something that was passed last fall at a time it was >hoped that  >> theB >> > UN would back the USA, or is this passed recently when it was
 >obvious that  >> theB >> > USA had failed to produce the evidence needed to convince its >allies and  >> thus < >> > was going alone to invade Iraq without any legitimacy ? >>E >> Passed last October, before Resolution 1441.  Most people probablyg	 >found itlC >> as inconceivable as I did that we'd actually plan to invade Iraqr >withoutD >> U.N. approval, and politicians were fearful of being demonized asA >> unpatriotic if they did not support Dubya in what he was stillB1 >> characterizing as part of the 'war on terror'.t >e >aE >Hypothetically (or not), if the US unilaterally invades Iraq without>G >U.N. approval, then de facto the U.S. is in violation of internationaleG >law regarding the waging of 'aggressive war'. The U.N. could then call-G >for the disarmament of the U.S. and the imposition of sanctions on theo >U.S.n >p >True or False?Y >gO The Bush administration has always maintained that 1441 gives the authority forsM war - many others would disagree. The only reason 1441 was passed unanimouslyaM was that most nations read it as requiring the UN to consider Iraq's responsegL and to pass a second resolution to actually authorize force. However as withO many UN resolutions the wording was deliberately imprecise to allow for maximum  agreement at the time.  G If the UN votes on the second resolution and rejects it then this wouldgJ strengthen the argument that any unilateral US action was against the will of the UN and hence illegal.  H Because the US is a permanent member of the UN and thus has a veto it isM unlikely that the UN would be able to do much about this through the securitysO council. I'm not sure though what the position is on getting a country's leaderuP charged with war crimes (However just going to war without UN approval is almost/ certainly not enough to provoke such a charge).aN I'm pretty sure it won't happen but the image of Bush and Blair being charged N with war crimes after all their statements on the morality of their case has a certain appeal.i    
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University           >    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 17:33:45 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>o: Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease TyrantsF Message-ID: <ZbKba.6668$a41.6362@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  . <rob.buxton@wcc.spam.govt.nz> wrote in message news:3e6e78fb.428953392@news...e > C > In the meantime I'll stay with the BBC and programs like Panoramar fori) > insight into the Middle East situation.i  @ Last night one of the local television stations aired a PanoramaC episode which discussed the Iraqi 'unconventional' weapons program.sC This episode was produced sometime between fall 2001 and early thishE year given the content - the transcript is not on the BBC site yet so , that makes me think it's an early 2003 show.  F In it they described a wide variety of bacteriological warfare agents,> anthrax included, that had been provided to Iraqi  by the U.S.F government in the 1980's, in quantities vastly larger than any medicalD research facility could ever justify needing for any purpose. It was< then interesting to watch the testimony of Rumsfeld before aD Congressional committee as he weasled around the question of whetherE US troops faced the risk of being attacked by bacteriological weapons ! produced with US supplied agents.   E The program also went after various German firms for supplying plants 2 for nuclear and chemical-warfare agent production.  D Another Panorama program (transcript) that may be worth checking out@ is at http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/panorama/2706841.stm   and this one  F http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/audio_video/programmes/panoram a/transcripts/23_09_02.txt   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 13:22:44 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>: Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants/ Message-ID: <3E6F6CDD.3D591A25@vl.videotron.ca>f   John Smith wrote:tF > Hypothetically (or not), if the US unilaterally invades Iraq withoutH > U.N. approval, then de facto the U.S. is in violation of internationalH > law regarding the waging of 'aggressive war'. The U.N. could then callH > for the disarmament of the U.S. and the imposition of sanctions on the > U.S.  J The US would veto any such resolution and expect the UN to respect the USAK veto, even though the USA doesn't respect the veto of 2 or 3 other nations.   M What I find appaling is that the USA (and possibly France, Russia,China) seemaM to be resorting to bribes and threaths to those 6 "neutral" countrioes on theuN security council to try to sway them into their camp. If Turkey truly beleivedF that the invasion of Iraq was a good thing, it would have accepted andQ welcomed the USA troups without having to be "convinced" with huge sums of money.e  M On the matter of the destruction of a country, a proposal should stand on itslL own merits and not be attached with any bribes or threaths. If the USA can'tK convince even those 6 "neutral" nations with no vested interests in Iraq ofbM the merits of it invasion, then the USA has a serious problem with its plans.f  H The UN exists to ensure that any international action a country takes isL judged objectively by PEERS and to prevent one rogue nation from taking overN control of the UN. The VETO power here will ensure that unbribable nations canC stop a superpower who will have bribed its way into a winning vote.s  M And contrary to what the USA media say, the VETO has been used over 200 timestX in recent history, notably by the USA to veto resolutions that condemn Israel behaviour.  H The USA had also VETOed resolution permitting peacekeeping troups in theK balkans from proactively fighting, a resolution which had been requested byrL the general (a canadian) in charge of the balkan operations who knew becauseJ he had troups from many countries there. The USA had nobody in the balkansM until the very end. And the USA had been complaining about how useless the UNaG peacekeeping troups had been when talking to USA media who never bothertJ mentioning it was the USA who had prevented those same non-USA troups fromN using greater firepower to impose peace. The USA was also disregarding an armsC embargo on the region and continued to provide arms to one faction.e  M The USA media only started to monitor the balkans when Clinton decided to geto( involved. They ignored it prior to that.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 08:38:25 -0500 ! From: Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu>o Subject: Re: OT: About snow...' Message-ID: <3E6F3851.3936B683@vcu.edu>S  > and i suppose the hockey player's teeth are the nails????  ;-)  6 "I saw a fight get so bad a hockey game broke out...."   jims   "Main, Kerry" wrote: >  > Jim, > D > >>> are they 2x4" trusses on 18" centers, or built better???  just > wondering...<<<  > " > Better - recycled hockey sticks. >  > :-), >  > Kerry Main > Senior Consultanto > Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.# > Consulting & Integration Servicesr > Voice: 613-592-4660g > Fax   : 613-591-4477 > Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom/ >     (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s)M! > OpenVMS DCL - the original .COMD >  > -----Original Message-----* > From: Jim Agnew [mailto:jpagnew@vcu.edu] > Sent: March 11, 2003 2:36 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComR  > Subject: Re: OT: About snow... > @ > are they 2x4" trusses on 18" centers, or built better???  just > wondering... > H > I had a heavy snow load once, and one of the corners in my living roomI > started opening up, and by then, the snow had a nice cozy layer of ice, C > making it impossible to scrape it off even with a toothed rake...o >  > JF Mezei wrote:  > >o > > Jim Agnew wrote: > > >t: > > > oh man.. how do you keep the roofs from caving in??? > >iG > > They are built to widthstand a few feet of now. But more than that,i. > > and you should push the snow off the roof. >  > --H > "4,000 years ago I made a mistake."  Elrond Half-Elven, in "Fellowship > of the Ring"   -- eF "4,000 years ago I made a mistake."  Elrond Half-Elven, in "Fellowship of the Ring"   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Mar 2003 06:24:45 -0800) From: P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young)o Subject: Re: OT: About snow...= Message-ID: <55f85d77.0303120624.551d4dcf@posting.google.com>w  g JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3E6D5088.6F61494F@vl.videotron.ca>...eM > Some time ago, Sue asked how everyone was doing, with regards the the small , > snowfalls that covered the north east USA. > , > http://northernpen.hypermart.net/storm.htm > J > will give you a good idea of what a REAL canadian winter is like (ok, so% > newfoundland gets a LOT of snow :-)D  ? The only thing I know about snow is I *WANT IT*, maybe not thate much :-)  F An interesting thing, and shown in the photos - the power cables (likeE ours) have no insulation or protection against kids climbing the snow=E and grabbing the cables. I don't suspect there are many injuries this1 way?  < I'm a cold weather body-type person living in Australia, and quite frankly I *HATE* summer.  H Ours is over *thank god*, no more feeling sick, the temperature/humidityE actually changed for the better on the first day of autumn (surprised. me).   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 13:27:13 GMTI% From: "Safir" <axica_nopub@yahoo.com>y8 Subject: Re: Pathworks 6.0C and Windows 2000 AD upgrade?/ Message-ID: <RAGba.215$6i4.80@news.cpqcorp.net>t  F If you want to rebuild the SAM on a BDC, this is described in "ASK HP"F (http://www.compaq.fr/support/ask/home.asp or http://askq.compaq.com/)    A [PW-AS] Recovering from SAM Corruption On PATHWORKS Backup Domaint
 Controllers :G  L http://h18000.www1.hp.com/support/asktima/communications/009CB62B-1DA0F8C0-2
 10318.html   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 13:41:45 GMT-% From: "Safir" <axica_nopub@yahoo.com>3" Subject: Re: Process State "RWCAP"/ Message-ID: <tOGba.216$_94.64@news.cpqcorp.net>e  6 You don't need necessarily a multi pro to get in RWCAP  C RWCAP - May be used by the VMS scheduling code when quorum is lost.tG         However, this is not the normal case since once quorum is lost,t7         no processes are allowed to continue executing.S  
         Note: F           In the case of a CLUEXIT bugcheck, it is very typical to see1           many processes in the RWCAP wait state.f   was it a CLUEXIT bigcheck ?m   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 12:04:20 GMT 7 From: brad@.homeportal.2wire.net (Bradford J. Hamilton)f Subject: Re: PSDC missing data, Message-ID: <8nFba.53549$3D1.2237@sccrnsc01>  g In article <v6timirub4h4f7@corp.supernews.com>, "Sandeep Yelwatkar" <Sandeep_Yelwatkar@bmc.com> writes:s >h >Hi All, > M >This is regarding PSDC data collector. I have the performance data collectedv! >using Polycenter data collector.e >  >After I execute the commandK >$ ADVISE COLLECT REPORT DUMP_CPUS /NODE=FTNXP /BEG=08-mar-2003:00:00:00.00o >/OUTPUT=JUNK.DATh >u( >It gives the following warning message.I >%PSDC-W-MISSDATA, Missing data for FTNXP  8-MAR-2003 15:42 -  8-MAR-2003s >22:58 >Reporting on Node FTNXP >i- >The data is collected for 24 hours duration.e >AJ >I would like to know what are the probable reason for missing data during >certain interval.   Hi Sandeep,t   Two probable reasons:e  #  - Data collection was not running.w    - The system was down.U   >u$ >Again any help is most appreciated. >s >Thankss >Sandeep >l >t >s  A _________________________________________________________________s0 Bradford J. Hamilton			"All opinions are my own"/ bMradAhamiPltSon@atMtAbi.cPoSm		"Lose the MAPS"r   ------------------------------  ! Date: Wed, 12 Mar 03 10:11:14 GMTl From: jmfbahciv@aol.comsY Subject: Re: SIMH 2.10-4 released: major bug fixes to PDP-8, PDP-11, VAX, PDP-15, Interdae+ Message-ID: <b4n3pv$i1j$1@bob.news.rcn.net>s  - In article <n1yba.53365$qi4.33172@rwcrnsc54>,y&    bugs@pu.net (Mark Hittinger) wrote:* >John Sauter <J_Sauter@Empire.Net> writes:: >>Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't the DN87 use DDCMP?2 >>And wasn't DDCMP part of both ANF-10 and DECnet? >r; >DDCMP was the layer right above the hardware on the serialy: >and the sync lines.  ANF-10, Decnet, and MOP packets rode >within DDCMP envelopes. >a= >On ethernet DDCMP wasn't used.  Wonder about CI connections?h >w4 >I'm glad you mentioned this because I've remembered; >something that we may not have recovered yet.  There _was_l; >some sort of "task to task" gateway in the DN87 that would 8 >allow a low level ANF-10 connection to gateway to a low >level DECNET connection.n >o< >I remember a tskser.mac but can't seem to locate it in team: >Shoppa's archives.  I remember tskser.mac being some sort8 >of bundled item that we had to pay more for.  Where is  >tskser.mac? :-) -  < Hum.  I don't remember a separate tape; the filename sure is	 familiar.H  1 > ... Just to prove to myself that I'm not havingn; >another senior moment you can see references to tskser.mac0@ >in http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/bb-bt99e-bb/02/kl10.fil.html" >and in an MCO from JMF in 703.mco >s= >SO there was some sort of special thing for a decnet gateway<> >in the DN87 stuff. I think it was contemporary with phase-II = >decnet - task to task was very low level and not fancy stuff/
 >like NFT. >a> >Does this ring any bells for anyone else?  We should probably* >try to find the tskser distribution tape.  < It would have a different "name" than TSKSER, because I sure: don't remember Magee talking about a tape using that noun.   >c< >Thanks for being stubborn about your recollection John. :-) >>. >In 703.mco and here is a note from JMF to us:  ? This sure brings back memories of monitor meetings, the listingt table in the machine room. >nE >MCO: 11045          Name: JMF               Date: 17-Nov-83:05:04:29t
 >[Symptom]A >Too many monitor listing binders. Also, hard to do a mechanisticr) >edit to all ANF device service routines.i >[Diagnosis]? >TSKSER and RDXSER are seperate modules when they really shoulds >be included in NETDEV.i >[Cure]eE >Move TSKSER and RDXSER to NETDEV. Also, make NETDEV be a real module D >in NETDEV which contains only the copyright statement and the edit  history. >bA >He may have stealthily ended the seperate bundling of tskser and 3 >rdxser (where is rdxser tape?! :-)) with this MCO.l >sC >So in 7.03+ tskser lives in netdev.   We may still be missing someu+ >important files on the -11 side of things..  : It just occurred to me that my packaging plans (a New Idea@ in software development country) would be useful here.  In thoseA I documented which filenames were going to disappear, appear, andu? reappear.  Unfortunately, I didn't consider them valuable othertA than a way to prevent product prevention which was only importantpC during the time of the development cycle.  Bad, bad girl.  I shouldd) have anticipated the need for this trace.n   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.b   ------------------------------  ! Date: Wed, 12 Mar 03 10:15:45 GMTu From: jmfbahciv@aol.comAY Subject: Re: SIMH 2.10-4 released: major bug fixes to PDP-8, PDP-11, VAX, PDP-15, Interdao+ Message-ID: <b4n42e$i1j$2@bob.news.rcn.net>f  8 In article <796t6v8bflis5vm6uufo1hcuqteit2nddb@4ax.com>,+    John Sauter <J_Sauter@Empire.Net> wrote: 9 >On Tue, 11 Mar 03 11:10:31 GMT, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:e >John Sauter wrote:w >n< >I am disappointed that the DN60 is not on the list.  It was: >a separate product, but I tried to arrange to include the- >PDP-11 assembly language sources on the kit.o >  >BAH wrote:l > A >But your code would be in that file, John.  IIRC, the IBM option C >was a whole different can of worms than ANF-10.  And I don't thinkA@ >anybody put the DN60 stuff on the monitor distribution tape; itA >had to be bought.  We did include the monitor stub for it on thetF >general distribution, but not the DN60 PDP-11 files.  That's probablyC >another tape that got shitcanned when Release Engineering's officeo >got cleaned out.u >a >John Sauter responded:m > 9 >Well, since it was sent to every DN60 customer, it mighti= >still be out there somewhere.  I was quite proud of that bit 7 >of PDP-11 code.  It had a very small real-time kernel, 5 >with tasks and device drivers.  The tasks moved datai7 >between the DTE-20 or DL-10 and the serial line units, ; >formatting as they went.  The device driver for the DTE-20u3 >was two interlocked state machines, reflecting theg6 >half-duplex nature of the hardware.  I used the fancy8 >lights on the DL-10 as a load indicator, like the stack( >of LEDs on modern digital audio mixers. >h1 >Allocating memory from interrupt level was quitet/ >a challenge.  One task was devoted to clearingt1 >deallocated memory and placing it on a list fromi4 >which interrupt level could consume it.  The MACY11. >assembler helped us count microseconds in the1 >critical paths.  We took advantage of the double > >buffering in the serial line units to let us take a long path1 >provided that the next received character alwayso3 >took the short path.  I don't remember the higheste4 >speed we were able to run reliably, but it may have/ >been 4800 bits per second.  I do remember thatm >adding the KMC-11 didn't help.-  < I do know that I never dealt with the tape.  That means that= the code and tapes didn't get touched during 7.03 or 7.04.  Ip< don't know about 7.02.  I also don't remember ever having to? consider the tape when we reviewed the BOMs (bill of materials)o= and I think I got the formal review process started with 7.028> (although it might have been 7.03).  Can anybody remember when? all customers got a complete new set of the Software Notebooks?r= After that mistake happened, I had no trouble with setting upy< a formal review.  And, boy, did I learn a lot about the mess% we had w.r.t. ordering by doing that!e   > 2 >Debugging while sitting between two KL10s without9 >skins was quite an experience.  If I were doing it todaym! >I would wear hearing protectors.t  % <grin>  But at least you stayed warm.a   /BAH   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 06:53:02 -0500 ' From: John Sauter <J_Sauter@Empire.Net> Y Subject: Re: SIMH 2.10-4 released: major bug fixes to PDP-8, PDP-11, VAX, PDP-15, Interdai8 Message-ID: <rm7u6voe7bvuhtcdujdgjmb72trajel44l@4ax.com>  8 On Wed, 12 Mar 03 10:15:45 GMT, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: John Sauter wrote:  1 Debugging while sitting between two KL10s withoutg8 skins was quite an experience.  If I were doing it today  I would wear hearing protectors.   Barb wrote:e  % <grin>  But at least you stayed warm.o   John Sauter responded:  1 Because of the fans it didn't feel terribly warm,d. but you just reminded me that it may have been2 warm in ways I couldn't feel.  Doesn't ECL radiate. X-rays?  Maybe that's why I never had any more children after working for DEC. %     John Sauter (J_Sauter@Empire.Net)e   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 07:04:55 GMTa( From: Alder <PGDEHMKOKIMD@spammotel.com>! Subject: Re: SQS Listener (again)e, Message-ID: <3E6EDC04.3030201@spammotel.com>   David J. Dachtera wrote:   > Alder wrote:3 >>Username: SQLSRV$DEFLT                     Owner:r <SNIP>H >>Primary   000000000011111111112222  Secondary 000000000011111111112222H >>Day Hours 012345678901234567890123  Day Hours 012345678901234567890123H >>Network:  -----  No access  ------            -----  No access  ------H >>Batch:    -----  No access  ------            -----  No access  ------H >>Local:    -----  No access  ------            -----  No access  ------H >>Dialup:   -----  No access  ------            -----  No access  ------H >>Remote:   -----  No access  ------            -----  No access  ------ >  > J > This account is set for /NOACCESS. Is that correct? (I'm skeptical.) I'd > expect at least /NETWORK.i >   P Good point.  That would at least give it the same access as many TCPIP Services O accounts like TCPIP$FTP and TCPIP$TELNET.  I've made no changes to the account nN parameters since installation so I assume the account was set up according to K Oracle's spec.  Nevertheless, I checked the SQS Configuration guide and my gN installation output just in case, but neither mentions how the account should  be set up in the UAF.   I Perhaps because this version of SQS is "free" and limited to development sP purposes only, the "spec" was to disallow network access - kind of a poor man's O licence protection scheme :-)  But if NETWORK or some other access is required dQ in the UAF, I'm confused about how it is that I am able to make connections from e% other machines on my LAN using TCPIP?b   Bewilderment reigns supreme...   Alderp   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 13:33:54 -0500r- From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca>a+ Subject: Re: SYS$STARTUP:LIB$DT_STARTUP.COMh6 Message-ID: <b4nuiq$22c1me$1@ID-141708.news.dfncis.de>   Kiasu Surfer wrote:T= > Will running of SYS$STARTUP:LIB$DT_STARTUP.COM upon startupb mess up.7 > my existing date-manipulation scripts using lexicals?e  8 It will not create a problem for lexicals, but if you do< something like DIR/DATE/OUT=x.x then try to parse the output! file then you will have problems.   ; > I am new to this date format manipulation library startupd script.e >o= > Does this LIB$DT_STARTUP.COM work on adhoc basis, work upon- request,< > or will it make a impact on all system date format gobally by default?c >...  - As long as you do not define LIB$DT_FORMAT ore> LIB$DT_INPUT_FORMAT at the system level then you will be fine.= I have one cluster and one standalone system setup to displayi= dates in French at the system level using the LIB$DT logicalsn< and SYS$LANGUAGE (IIRC this breaks HELP/MESSAGE or something< like that), on another system I change the format for my use- but everyone else sees the standard VMS date.    -- Peter Weaver: Opinions are my own, and do not reflect the opinions of my	 employer,h> nor the company that it sub-contracts to, nor the company that it sub-contracts to.w   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 03:32:12 -0400u0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>" Subject: Re: TCPIP: bug or feature/ Message-ID: <3E6EE26E.F98DE1D5@vl.videotron.ca>7   Phillip Helbig wrote: I >    o  what is the point in having more than one interface in this case?   P If your primary interface is set to 10.1.0.1 with a network mask of 255.255.0.0,M if you have second interface set to 10.2.0.1 with network mask of 255.255.0.0   L and you have a machine 10.2.0.15 talking to you, then VMS will know that theN return traffic will go back via the second interface and the traffic will come
 from 10.2.0.1a  M Now, consider a machine 10.1.0.2, it can have a route defined to 10.2.*.* viaoM gateway 10.1.0.1 and  10.1.0.1 will get the packet and route it to the secondn
 interface.  J > For a transitionary time, I want to have BOTH working.  (It is necessary  J You can't, at least not with 2 separate routers. If you had a single, moreN sophisticated router, with 3 ports, you might be able to manage this. One portL for your lan, one port for tour old ISDN, and one port for your new DSL line- with NAT software enabled for that port only.   P Then, you could program your router to route packets from port 3 (you lan) signeO d by an internet address to go via port 1 (ISDN) and packets from port 3 signed(P by a lan address to go via port 2 where they are transl;ated from LAN address to  internet address.  : You'd end up paying a lot of money for that functionality.  F > to have a transitionary time with both, rather than switching all atF > once; I just discovered that my Linksys router is blocking X-windowsF > connections, though it shouldn't be.  If anyone has a Linksys router? > which works with port forwarding for X-windows, let me know.)a  O I don't know about Linksys, but you have to open ports 6000-6064 and point themS to the right vax on your lan.       E > Of course, if I set the default gateway to the DSL router, then allYG > works fine, as expected.  So there is no problem with the DSL router,o > NAT/PAT etc per se.f  ! Do you currently have 2 routers ?(    G I have not thought of this carefully, not sure if it would work or not:e  O REV NAT : a NAT router with the WAN port connected to the LAN towards your vax.o      [ISDN MODEM]         [DSL MODEM]      |                   |  24.45.24.201            |1  24.45.24.202        64.34.45.20         WAN SIDEa!  24.45.24.203         NAT ROUTER1 1  24.45.24.204         10.1.0.1           LAN SIDEe#      |                   |   lan #1o      |                   |1      |                10.1.0.12          LAN SIDE        |                REV NAT 1A1      |                10.3.0.22          WAN SIDE       |                   |&      |                   |  <== lan #3      +-------+-----------+        |               |        |               |     24.45.24.201  10.3.0.10a          [    VAX    ]  2 User 12.13.14.15 calls 64.34.45.20 (your DSL line)    / DSL MODEM :  from: 12.13.14.15  to: 64.34.45.20o  9 ROUTER 1  : changes TO -> 10.3.0.10 via 10.1.0.12 (route)s  J LAN    1  : from:12.13.14.15 to: 10.3.0.10 sent to ethernet LAN:REV NAT 1A  % REV NAT 1A: changes FROM to 10.3.0.22j  ) LAN    3  : [from 10.3.0.22 to 10.3.0.10]e  L VAX gets call from 10.3.0.22, sends back packet to 10.3.0.22 on same subnet.  @ LAN   3    : [from 10.3.0.10 to 10.3.0.22] -> reaches REV NAT 1A  P REV NAT 1A : remembers this call, changes TO to 12.13.14.15, via gateway 10.1.0. 1n  , LAN   1    : [from 10.3.0.10 to 12.13.14.15]  = NAT ROUTER1: remembers this call, changes FROM to 64.34.45.20o  1 DSL ROUTER:  [from: 64.34.45.20  to: 12.13.14.15]m  9 ---------------------------------------------------------a  M Note, the above NAT routers require the ability to have static routing tablesz. (NETGEAR 314 has that, not sure about linksys)  N Now, when a call comes in from ISDN line, it goes directly to LAN 3 and to the$ interface that matches that address.  O The VAX is configured with a default gateway that routes trhough the ISDN LINE.aK So when calls come in via ISDN line, the packets go back via default route.   J When calls come in via DSL line, they appear on LAN 3 as an IP of the sameI subnet so the VAX doesn't route via default gateway, and instead sends it P directly to the REV NAT 1A where the packets gets mangled back to their original stuff.  J NOTE to fuel the editor jihad: This note was compused with TPU, saved to aB file, then copied onto my mac via telnet and pasted into netscape.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 03:35:19 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>" Subject: Re: TCPIP: bug or feature/ Message-ID: <3E6EE329.87AE4008@vl.videotron.ca>e  7 re: my previous note with two NAT routers face to face:a  M One disadvantage of this setup is that calls coming it via your DSL line willmI all appear to be coming from the same local IP address from an accountingiK point of view and you would not have a log of their real origin, unless you M manage to setup a syslog on the NAT ROUTER 1 pointing its output to your vax.n  J But once your ISDN is gone, you can then remove the reverse NAT router and things woudl be much cleaner.m   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 12:52:22 +0100 (MET)l9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>g" Subject: Re: TCPIP: bug or feature; Message-ID: <01KTFRIBRATU9FRD0S@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   H > > to have a transitionary time with both, rather than switching all atH > > once; I just discovered that my Linksys router is blocking X-windowsH > > connections, though it shouldn't be.  If anyone has a Linksys routerA > > which works with port forwarding for X-windows, let me know.)  > F > I don't know about Linksys, but you have to open ports 6000-6064 and+ > point them to the right vax on your lan.    F That wasn't the problem.  It now works, but I don't understand why it E didn't work before.  Linksys suggested changing the MTU value.  This  D didn't help, but after I changed it back to what it was before (the  default value), it DID work.  G > > Of course, if I set the default gateway to the DSL router, then all)I > > works fine, as expected.  So there is no problem with the DSL router,o > > NAT/PAT etc per se.a > # > Do you currently have 2 routers ?r  F Yes, ISDN with no NAT or PAT enabled for the ISDN connection, routing E public IP addresses, and DSL with NAT and PAT for the DSL connection t= with one public WAN address and private addresses on the LAN.u  E REV NAT : a NAT router with the WAN port connected to the LAN towardsa
 your vax.       [ISDN MODEM]         [DSL MODEM]      |                   |  24.45.24.201            |1  24.45.24.202        64.34.45.20         WAN SIDEi!  24.45.24.203         NAT ROUTER1 1  24.45.24.204         10.1.0.1           LAN SIDEh#      |                   |   lan #1y      |                   |1      |                10.1.0.12          LAN SIDE        |                REV NAT 1A1      |                10.3.0.22          WAN SIDEW      |                   |&      |                   |  <== lan #3      +-------+-----------+        |               |        |               |     24.45.24.201  10.3.0.10i          [    VAX    ]  2 User 12.13.14.15 calls 64.34.45.20 (your DSL line)    / DSL MODEM :  from: 12.13.14.15  to: 64.34.45.20   9 ROUTER 1  : changes TO -> 10.3.0.10 via 10.1.0.12 (route)a  J LAN    1  : from:12.13.14.15 to: 10.3.0.10 sent to ethernet LAN:REV NAT 1A  % REV NAT 1A: changes FROM to 10.3.0.22e  ) LAN    3  : [from 10.3.0.22 to 10.3.0.10]e  L VAX gets call from 10.3.0.22, sends back packet to 10.3.0.22 on same subnet.  @ LAN   3    : [from 10.3.0.10 to 10.3.0.22] -> reaches REV NAT 1A  P REV NAT 1A : remembers this call, changes TO to 12.13.14.15, via gateway 10.1.0. 1t  , LAN   1    : [from 10.3.0.10 to 12.13.14.15]  = NAT ROUTER1: remembers this call, changes FROM to 64.34.45.20n  1 DSL ROUTER:  [from: 64.34.45.20  to: 12.13.14.15]l  9 ---------------------------------------------------------e  H > Note, the above NAT routers require the ability to have static routing8 > tables (NETGEAR 314 has that, not sure about linksys)    Yes, no problem.  I > Now, when a call comes in from ISDN line, it goes directly to LAN 3 and . > to the interface that matches that address.  > F > The VAX is configured with a default gateway that routes trhough theI > ISDN LINE. So when calls come in via ISDN line, the packets go back viae > default route.   > G > When calls come in via DSL line, they appear on LAN 3 as an IP of therG > same subnet so the VAX doesn't route via default gateway, and insteadnI > sends it directly to the REV NAT 1A where the packets gets mangled backo > to their original stuff. a  - That's an interesting idea.  I'll try it out!u   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Mar 2003 06:19:11 -08001 From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski)aL Subject: The following are the OpenVMS Pearls for Mon Tues and Wed this week= Message-ID: <857e9e41.0303120619.400c708a@posting.google.com>   D The Monday OpenVMS Pearl was a file of a VERY nice CA mailer (if you0 want it send me mail at susan.skonetski@hp.com).   Tuesday was:   Sue,$ Here's a quote you'll love, - check:? http://www.jafsoft.com/asctohtm/a2hvms.html ---- especially the0
 OpenVMS part:    Downloading VMS versionsC Since this is God's own operating system, JafSoft and YRL have madesD the software free to VMS users. This is because the core software is@ developed under VMS, and we'd like to redress the balance just aC little. A Windows version of AscToHTM is available for $40 which istD slightly easier to use if you want to manipulate "policies". A Linux# version is undergoing beta testing.o     Wednesday was:2 rom: Appmind Software AB [mailto:news@appmind.com]% Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 9:01 AMN To: Skonetski, Susan7 Subject: Appmind and HP Software win Hungarian OEM dealv     Stockholm 11 MAR 2003y. Appmind and HP Software win Hungarian OEM deal  i> Appmind has together with HP Software sold a system managementD solution to monitor OpenVMS for a Lottery system, built by a Swedish Company in the Gaming industry.e@ The customer is based in Hungary and installation of the AppMindE OpenVMS agents and HP OpenView Operations will commence during Springo 2003.   tC As a complement to HP OpenView Operations solution, AppMind OpenVMS F Agent extends management of the IT environments to HP OpenVMS domains.A HP Software has, since November 2002, the ability to co-offer andoD deliver a Real Time System Management solution for OpenVMS customersB with the help of Appmind. The solution is fully integrated with HP OpenView Operations.  pA The Gaming System is based on various platforms where the backendlF systems are all HP OpenVMS servers. The Gaming Vendor required a fully@ integrated Service Management solution suitable for the complete@ application system. The management solution from HP Software and8 Appmind was able to fulfill the customers requirements.  U9  -We are humble to the fact that not only the finance andd@ manufacturing industries have chosen AppMind but also the gaming6 industries said Jonas Thorin, CEO Appmind Software AB.   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Mar 2003 08:14:29 -0800( From: krasicki@consultant.com (krasicki): Subject: Re: The Inquirer: Why Isn't HP Promoting OpenVMS?= Message-ID: <d673fc5d.0303120814.7184a7d4@posting.google.com>y  E There is very probably a rogue-baron's agreement in the industry thatqA will muzzle the introduction of any *ready for prime-time* 64-bits0 operating systems until Microsoft 'invents' one.  D Microsoft pillaged DEC for technologists in years past and a sinkingE DEC(Digital, whatever) sold off and agreed to get out of many marketseA shortly thereafter.  Oracle absorbed the databases, Microsoft thehE operating systems people they wanted (Cutler+), and Intel got the ARMl* technology, Compaq the servers, and so on.  E HP is pathetically rudderless and following the path of the DEC folkseE as their meatiest markets will shortly be eaten for lunch by others. u IME, Hopeless.    n LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (leslie) wrote in message news:<gbWaa.32257$wA2.1114103@twister.austin.rr.com>...* > http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=8198% >    Why isn't HP promoting Open VMS?p > H >   "...So why is it being given short shrift in favor of Windows, LinuxB >    and HP-UX and the mythical--and nearly impossible to actually- >    implement--Consolidated Enterprise Unix?C >    dH >    There's little margin to be made on Linux, Bill Gates makes more onH >    Windows sales than does HP, and the Unix market is in turmoil theseD >    days. With all the Tru64 kernel developers sacked, how will theK >    Consolidated Enterprise UNIX be consolidated? Magic beans? Pixie dust?p >    .I >    Which leaves HP with an excellent opportunity to grow, not maintain,mJ >    the VMS (and NonStop NSK) customer base and revenue stream. HP's lastC >    financial report indicates that HP is turning its back on thissG >    opportunity. NSK revenues fell in the last quarter, and OpenVMS isa9 >    being treated like my crazy aunt in the basement..."t >    l( > Perhaps a question for Carly's email ? >  > 4 > --Jerry Leslie   (my opinions are strictly my own); >   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for emaila   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 12:33:16 +0100d* From: Morten Reistad <mrr@reistad.priv.no> Subject: Re: unix 0 Message-ID: <st5n4b.ql01.ln@via.reistad.priv.no>  " According to  <jmfbahciv@aol.com>:9 >In article <jmej6vktsa6v9p9ge0qllo53qjvjk7a7ck@4ax.com>,e9 >   Brian Inglis <Brian.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca> wrote: ; >>On Thu, 06 Mar 03 10:59:13 GMT in alt.folklore.computers,i >>jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: >>, >>>In article <w1Uf0EQpJryo@elias.decus.ch>,0 >>>   p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) wrote:I >>>>In article <b3sofh$rp0$2@bob.news.rcn.net>, jmfbahciv@aol.com writes:u/ >>>>> In article <0PL33tx$iQG4@elias.decus.ch>,h3 >>>>>    p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) wrote:oK >>>>>>In article <b3qhii$nu2$4@bob.news.rcn.net>, jmfbahciv@aol.com writes:o >>>>>> >>>>>><snip> [snap]  C >>We always figured DEC didn't release source because it was so god-> >>awful: this was confirmed by many of the patches to original$ >>brain dead code that we received.  > > >Nah, I wouldn't assume that.  Most IBM interfaces had to suck> >(sorry, Lynn).  I don't know why but it always seemed to take> >awful code written for a very long time to do anything IBMish< >and that included talking to their systems.  I have no ideaA >if the reasons were because IBM sucked or the corporate culturesa- >of the two computing styles clashed or what.m ><snip>e  B There is a large difference between writing code that is meant forB a smaller audience where you have a clear, common understanding of@ the problems involved; and shipping source code meant to be read for the public.n  B When I write code from scratch I tend to make many passes over the@ code; from skeleton/showstopper-evaluation to polish. I.E. on anD X.25 implementation there were separate passes with checking againstE the standard(s) every object and action, and then doing an evaluationw> against TCP behaviour and timer behaviour on yet another pass.  D When I plan to publish code I make two more full passes on the code,< with full testing afterwards; just commenting and making the> code easier to read and understand. The "look-and-feel" of the* two styles of code is radically different.  = For the example in question that meant putting in pointers to,@ WHY the code did what it did, and why the warts were in (because< they were mandated by standards, mostly). When I left a PPOE< i came in one day a week for half a year just to polish such1 software. (in compensation they let me go early).   C I can see such differences clearly e.g. in the main TOPS20 sources,lE which are clearly meant for a lagre audience; and the device drivers;U: which has been brought to the point of a smaller audience.6 Even the DDT source is clearly for the smaller family.  @ Or take a look at Linux. The really old memory map code in thereA that just has (C) Linus Thorvalds 1993 as a comment is an examplen= of code not meant for a large audience; whereas most of Linuxn5 source code is readily readable for an outside party.u  @ I fully understand those that want to defer publication of their
 wilest hacks.i       -- mrr   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 13:18:05 +0100t* From: Morten Reistad <mrr@reistad.priv.no> Subject: Re: unixt0 Message-ID: <th8n4b.fp11.ln@via.reistad.priv.no>  " According to  <jmfbahciv@aol.com>:* >In article <ud6l16ebp.fsf@earthlink.net>,0 >   Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> wrote: >>jmfbahciv@aol.com writes:fA >>> Nah, I wouldn't assume that.  Most IBM interfaces had to suckCA >>> (sorry, Lynn).  I don't know why but it always seemed to take A >>> awful code written for a very long time to do anything IBMish0? >>> and that included talking to their systems.  I have no ideasD >>> if the reasons were because IBM sucked or the corporate cultures0 >>> of the two computing styles clashed or what. >> [snip]D >>For a period, my wife was chief architect for amadeus (airline resB >>system for europe, and a couple us lines). she settled on x.25.  >t? >Our people settled on x.25 too, grumbling all the way.  I justk< >never understood the comm biz well enough to figure out why< >there was so much grumping.  If things were so bad, why use >it?  > I had to settle for X.25 for stock exchange traffic too, after0 making a real effort to move to tcp/ip. (1988).   > X.25 was a commodity offering, with a CCITT (now ITU) spec you< could throw at the PTT in question. It was (sort of) peer to= peer, and could be implemented reasonably on new and existingR@ hardware. The only available alternative was TCP/IP, and SwipnetA managed to bungle their effort so massively that it was definatly ) out. There were very few other ISPs then.e  ; X.25 has lots of problems, most relating to scalability. Ito? has to shuffle far too much state through the network to  scalee: well; and implementors just went by the red book and wrote1 code without understanding the problems involved..  ; X.25 has ironocally gotten a new lease of life for the veryeC lightweight stuff like pos terminal and telemetry/control stations; < X.25 is just picked up from lines with a consentrator and is> backhauled via IP and XOT. The X.25 network therefore does not have to scale.  	 >> .. theyA >>internal sna crowd created such an uproar that they got my wifet? >>removed. it didn't do much good ... amadeus went x.25 anyway.6 >>B >>earlier she had been conned into going to pok to be in charge ofA >>loosely coupled architecture .... where she originated/authored.G >>"peer-coupled shared data" architecture ... which was totally countergG >>to non-peer SNA paradigm. there were frequent battles between how fardG >>glasshouse datacenter operation could extend peer-to-peer before theyvH >>had to switch to non-peer sna. as fiber technologies appeared ...  the@ >>processor group kept trying to push peer-to-peer into multipleD >>kilometer range before they had to officially bow to sna non-peer.  > We were free from SNA pressures. IBM managed to get themselves6 locked out from offers because of some silly mistake.   G Dynatech also managed to do that. The public servant rules were crystalgG clear that NOONE could take gifts worth more than nok 300 (usd 44 then)iF without declaring themselves ineligable for business dealings with theE giver for a longish (years) period. Dynatech had an offer for storagemB almost signed, and arranged a party worth approx 500 nok per head.  F Instantly locked themselved out. Contract went to competitor Storcomp.   -- mrr   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 07:19:14 -0500o* From: "J. Clarke" <jclarke@nospam.invalid> Subject: Re: unix?; Message-ID: <pan.2003.03.12.12.19.13.161339@nospam.invalid>w  7 On Wed, 12 Mar 2003 02:03:49 +0000, Alan Barclay wrote:H  I > In article <b4kv4a$rq0$5@bob.news.rcn.net>,  <jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote: C >>It certainly is likely that I have a complete misunderstand about > >>Open Source.  I had presumed that, since I had to buy RedHat3 >>off the shelf, that it was no longer Open Source.- > B > No, you don't have to buy it off the shelf. You can download it,A > or someone who has downloaded it or bought a copy can duplicate  > it and give you a copy.6 > = > The only difference between buying it and downloading it ise' > that you get support when you buy it.V  C And precious little of that--in theory you can download patches andtH updates, but in practice you have to pay for premium support--there is aD download site for people who have bought the box but not the premiumF support, but if you try to download from it you find very quickly that most of the time it is "busy".  A I played with RedHat for a bit and ditched it in favor of gentoo.      -- a --John- Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net(# (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)P   ------------------------------  ! Date: Wed, 12 Mar 03 12:38:34 GMTt From: jmfbahciv@aol.com. Subject: Re: unixn, Message-ID: <b4nce4$pv0$18@bob.news.rcn.net>  3 In article <VmFMk9z$RLC9@eisner.encompasserve.org>,c?    koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote:eF >In article <b4kv4a$rq0$5@bob.news.rcn.net>, jmfbahciv@aol.com writes: >> TD >> It certainly is likely that I have a complete misunderstand about? >> Open Source.  I had presumed that, since I had to buy RedHatT4 >> off the shelf, that it was no longer Open Source. >sI >   RedHat isn't selling you the source.  You can download that for free. G >   RedHat is selling you the packaging, including a much easier way tos& >   install then starting from source. >S= This is the third explanation that still seems to support my t> impression.  It appears that Red Hat is no longer Open Source!   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.    ------------------------------  ! Date: Wed, 12 Mar 03 12:40:38 GMTs From: jmfbahciv@aol.com" Subject: Re: unix , Message-ID: <b4nci1$pv0$19@bob.news.rcn.net>  3 In article <1047434629.419329@elaine.furryape.com>,,4    gorilla@elaine.furryape.com (Alan Barclay) wrote:H >In article <b4kv4a$rq0$5@bob.news.rcn.net>,  <jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote:C >>It certainly is likely that I have a complete misunderstand aboutt> >>Open Source.  I had presumed that, since I had to buy RedHat3 >>off the shelf, that it was no longer Open Source.w >eA >No, you don't have to buy it off the shelf. You can download it,n@ >or someone who has downloaded it or bought a copy can duplicate >it and give you a copy. >r< >The only difference between buying it and downloading it is& >that you get support when you buy it.  ? Sigh!  I had the definite impression when I read the box labelshB at the store that there wasn't a _source_.  Ergo, they've eschewed Open Source policy.v     /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.o   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Mar 2003 09:17:28 -05007 From: pechter@shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter)o Subject: Re: unixs- Message-ID: <b4nfho$9jj$1@shell.monmouth.com>o  H In article <b4nce4$pv0$18@bob.news.rcn.net>,  <jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote:4 >In article <VmFMk9z$RLC9@eisner.encompasserve.org>,@ >   koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote: >>> >This is the third explanation that still seems to support my ? >impression.  It appears that Red Hat is no longer Open Source!  >p >/BAH1  F RedHat Linux's version 8 is fully Open Source... If you buy it you getF the sources on CD IIRC.  I know I've downloaded it in the past and had 2 full CD's of sources...   ? They do sell support and maintenance and I just picked up theirw> RedHat Network update support for my wife's box which now does: Text-to-Speech of the console tty output so she can access. the unix system from the pc while being blind.  M Now all I do is run their update service regularly and it uploads the patchesi/ to the system for security and bugfixes for me.o     Bill -- nM +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ M | Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter    |        pechter@shell.monmouth.com        |lM |   Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in  |1N |   a James Bond movie              -- Dennis Miller                        | M +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+T   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 09:29:50 -0500d4 From: Roland Hutchinson <my_spamtrap@eudoramail.com> Subject: Re: unixD5 Message-ID: <b4ngaa$210oq0$1@ID-99522.news.dfncis.de>e   jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:  5 > In article <VmFMk9z$RLC9@eisner.encompasserve.org>,eA >    koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote:)G >>In article <b4kv4a$rq0$5@bob.news.rcn.net>, jmfbahciv@aol.com writes:  >>> E >>> It certainly is likely that I have a complete misunderstand aboutu@ >>> Open Source.  I had presumed that, since I had to buy RedHat5 >>> off the shelf, that it was no longer Open Source.e >>D >>   RedHat isn't selling you the source.  You can download that forG >>   free. RedHat is selling you the packaging, including a much easier . >>   way to install then starting from source. >>> > This is the third explanation that still seems to support my@ > impression.  It appears that Red Hat is no longer Open Source!   Huh?  
 Oh, I see!  H You read "Red Hat isn't selling you the source" to imply "Red Hat isn't $ making the source available to you".  E 'Tain't so!  What the original poster meant was that Red Hat dosen't  D SELL you the source, they GIVE you the source for free (and in fact B they will give anyone the source -- and the binaries -- for free).     -- .A Roland Hutchinson              Will play viola da gamba for food.o  < NB mail to my_spamtrap@eudoramail.com is heavily filtered to? remove spam.  If your message looks like spam I may not see it.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 15:35:46 +0100 " From: Mikael Cardell <mc@hack.org> Subject: Re: unix , Message-ID: <87llzkd54t.fsf@fuckup.hack.org>  , Giles Todd <gt@localhost.at-dot.org> writes:  E > ps2pdf output makes your eyes hurt when viewed in a PDF viewer, buth? > usually works out all right once printed.  I remember reading G > something about ps2pdf and 'Type 1' fonts and then immediately forgota > the details.    E You can also, of course, use pdf(la)tex and produce PDF directly from ? TeX. If you use Postscript Type 1 fonts (yes, even CM fonts areNF available as Type 1 outlines) the viewable result is very nice and notB filled with font bitmaps increasing the file size by huge amounts.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 10:16:48 -0700D From: bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca Subject: Re: unixa+ Message-ID: <3E6F6B80.6070407@jetnet.ab.ca>e   Bill/Carolyn Pechter wrote:s  A > They do sell support and maintenance and I just picked up their @ > RedHat Network update support for my wife's box which now does< > Text-to-Speech of the console tty output so she can access0 > the unix system from the pc while being blind. > O > Now all I do is run their update service regularly and it uploads the patches 1 > to the system for security and bugfixes for me..  ?   If you read the fine print , Red hat does not suport installsiE or updates over a modem. Since I have a modem I use Free BSD instead.l Ben.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 12:52:05 +0000a( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>$ Subject: Re: VAX Shared SCSI anyone?) Message-ID: <3E6F2D75.F5664BF6@127.0.0.1>8   Rob Brooks wrote:I > 0 > "Frank Sapienza" <sapienza@noesys.com> writes: > 9 > > Will OpenVMS/Itanium support shared SCSI in clusters? 
 >         No.p   Rob,  E Is this because of the move over to FibreChannel, i.e. that customersn@ would be expected to multi host their data other than over SCSI?  , With there be CIPCA (CI) support on Itanium?   -- l? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences7 nclews at csc dot comm   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 13:05:10 +0000 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>$ Subject: Re: VAX Shared SCSI anyone?) Message-ID: <3E6F3086.FD40BABF@127.0.0.1>s   Frank Sapienza wrote:b > L > Has anyone attempted to share SCSI devices between a VAX and Alpha system?E > Running VMS, naturally.  Everything I've found so far says it's notn= > supported, but that doesn't mean someone hasn't tried!  :-)H > M > The thought was to use a DWZZA-AA (standalone) and connect the SE side to a M > VAX (4106) SCSI bus, then connect the FWD side to an Alpha differential busgJ > (KZPSA), with an HSZ40 in between.  The VAX and Alpha are clustered over > DSSI (and LAN).@  B _Right_ _now_ we're "having a little go", not with native VAX SCSIH controllers, but "third party" (and I use the quotes with reason) with aD fair amount of success, but with more work and understanding to take place. THis is between VAXes.o  A I'd agree with other respondents that you've have fun with deviceeE naming, but as the lock management is based on volume labels, even ifrF you get 'ghost' devices which are the same as already mounted devices,D if you refer to the logical created at mount time, you should be OK,* Alphas work that way when not using a PAC.  F An Alpha and VAX, dunno. After we've figured out (if possible) the VAXE to VAX which does what is expected, this will be the next experiment.:  :N > Would that behave correctly, and would the lock manager figure it out, or is > it just asking for trouble?t  D I mentioned the lock manager above, and as to asking for trouble, if/ you've a testbed, then try it, and let us know.0  G I'll report here with how we get on with the VAXes if its worth talking9 about.   --  ? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot com-   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Mar 2003 09:30:13 -0800' From: timasmith@hotmail.com (Tim Smith) # Subject: VMS - duplicating database = Message-ID: <a7234bb1.0303120930.40a5523e@posting.google.com>e   Hi,-E     I have a large 200GB database that I need to duplicate to anothersF node.  Does anyone have a procedure for this.  I have a bunch of disksB that I can backup the entire database to and I believe I can mountC those on the second node (VMS guys do I need to reboot that node?).TE     What do I have to do, apart from init.ora to 'point' the databases to the new name?   thanks   Timc   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 11:45:30 -0600  From: brandon@dalsemi.com ' Subject: Re: VMS - duplicating databaseu1 Message-ID: <03031211453088@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>u   >>> Hi,FI >>>     I have a large 200GB database that I need to duplicate to anothereJ >>> node.  Does anyone have a procedure for this.  I have a bunch of disksF >>> that I can backup the entire database to and I believe I can mountG >>> those on the second node (VMS guys do I need to reboot that node?).aI >>>     What do I have to do, apart from init.ora to 'point' the databasee >>> to the new name? >>> 
 >>> thanks >>>  >>> Tim-   What kind of DB?  ORACLE?,       John Brandon VMS Systems Administratore Dallas Semiconductor john.brandon@dalsemi.com 972.371.4172 wkR 972.371.4003 fx-   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 09:52:37 -0800i% From: Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com>P' Subject: Re: VMS - duplicating databasen( Message-ID: <3E6F73E5.9060702@rdrop.com>   brandon@dalsemi.com wrote: >>>>Hi,lI >>>>    I have a large 200GB database that I need to duplicate to anotherh1 >>>>node.  Does anyone have a procedure for this.    > What kind of DB?  ORACLE?p   What kind of ORACLE? 9i? RDB?e   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Mar 2003 11:57:02 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)y' Subject: Re: VMS - duplicating database.3 Message-ID: <OsM377CXamKJ@eisner.encompasserve.org>   M In article <03031211453088@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>, brandon@dalsemi.com writes:r  J >>>>     What do I have to do, apart from init.ora to 'point' the database >>>> to the new name?g >>>>   >>>> thanksA >>>> C >>>> Tim >  > What kind of DB?  ORACLE?e >             init.ora                ^^^ !               ^^^ -------- Oraclet   				Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 12:05:59 -0600  From: brandon@dalsemi.com ' Subject: Re: VMS - duplicating database 1 Message-ID: <03031212055955@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>-  J >>>>     What do I have to do, apart from init.ora to 'point' the database >>>> to the new name?@ >>>> o >>>> thanksj >>>> : >>>> Tim >> f >> What kind of DB?  ORACLE? >> 1 >v >         init.ora >              ^^^" >              ^^^ -------- Oracle >  >				Rob   Duh.  My stupid.  O TO backup the database from one server to another, I am not a DB expert in this. area - so why am I answering...r   1)L You will need to shutdown ORACLE, backup the database drives (all associatedK with ORACLE would be a good idea), restore the database drives on the othercE system.  Here is where ORACLE DBA will need to describe what is next.    2)H You could create a new database on the other servers and use replicationO manager to update and maintain the new database.  This would eliminate the neednL to backup to tape (or disk).  However it would probably take a bit longer to
 acomplish.    DBA experts, please take over...   John Brandon VMS Systems Administratorh Dallas Semiconductor john.brandon@dalsemi.com 972.371.4172 wk  972.371.4003 fxr   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 18:38:00 -0000N- From: "Steve Spires" <Steve.Spires@torex.com>n' Subject: RE: VMS - duplicating databasepE Message-ID: <91947A84607D9D48B8E674A5FAB54DA6854441@tahiti.tinuk.com>p  F I don't know if this is a solution to your problem in any way, but youF could introduce the other node as a cluster member so both would be inE the same cluster [obviously you would need to create a cluster here],hA mount the database disks on each system, have your existing disks G waiting mounted only on the other node, and then do your copy that way.oH Perhaps a bit convoluted, and would need the specifics fleshing out, andE could probably be achieved in better ways, maybe utilising shadowing,nE and dropping members and remounting them on only one node etc, but an  idea...g   Cheers   Steve Spires Technical Consultant Torex Health [T] +44 (0) 1295 274200, [F] +44 (0) 1295 275131 
 www.torex.como   >>-----Original Message-----; >>From: brandon@dalsemi.com [mailto:brandon@dalsemi.com]=20  >>Sent: 12 March 2003 18:06o >>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comu) >>Subject: Re: VMS - duplicating database  >> >>F >>>>>>     What do I have to do, apart from init.ora to 'point' the=20  >>>>>> database to the new name?	 >>>>>>=20 
 >>>>>> thanks5	 >>>>>>=20 
 >>>>>> Tim >>>>=200 >>>> What kind of DB?  ORACLE? >>>>=202 >>>2 >>>         init.ora >>>              ^^^$ >>>              ^^^ -------- Oracle >>> 
 >>>				Rob >> >>Duh.  My stupid. >>B >>TO backup the database from one server to another, I am not a=203 >>DB expert in this area - so why am I answering...  >> >>1)A >>You will need to shutdown ORACLE, backup the database drives=20 ? >>(all associated with ORACLE would be a good idea), restore=20 < >>the database drives on the other system.  Here is where=200 >>ORACLE DBA will need to describe what is next. >> >>2)A >>You could create a new database on the other servers and use=203B >>replication manager to update and maintain the new database. =20@ >>This would eliminate the need to backup to tape (or disk). =20; >>However it would probably take a bit longer to acomplish.A >>" >>DBA experts, please take over... >> >>John Brandon >>VMS Systems Administratore >>Dallas Semiconductor >>john.brandon@dalsemi.com >>972.371.4172 wk0 >>972.371.4003 fx  >> >>   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Mar 2003 05:15:53 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)0) Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: Numeric usernames]t3 Message-ID: <pNFdVLJj5I14@eisner.encompasserve.org>   N In article <3E6ECC69.20705@rdrop.com>, Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com> writes: >>-----Original Message-----= >> From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net [mailto:Kilgallen@SpamCop.net]t >> zC >> Perhaps such a system seems silly from an educational viewpoint.c( >> but consider a prison environment :-) > F > Uh, our customers don't let their, ah, "clients", have access to the  > systems. That'd be bad, M'kay?  ; So people are not willing to _fully_ trust VMS security :-)l   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 08:08:07 -0800l% From: Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com>h) Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: Numeric usernames] ( Message-ID: <3E6F5B67.8060504@rdrop.com>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:P > In article <3E6ECC69.20705@rdrop.com>, Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com> writes: > = > So people are not willing to _fully_ trust VMS security :-)n  * Only an idiot keeps a fox in the henhouse.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.140 ************************om: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>" Subject: Re: TCPIP: bug or feature/ Message-ID: <3E6EE329.87AE4008@vl.videotron.ca>e  7 re: my previous note with two NAT routers facetes transferred.! <<< PORT 136,165,113,172,15,118 7 >>> 200 Port 15.118 at Host 136.165.113.172 accepted.o  <<< RETR netwatch_0_9c-src.tgzg >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/vmslt99a/sec/netwatch_0_9c-src.tgz (119981 bytes) started.<< >>> 226 Transfer completed.  119635 (8) bytes transferred.! <<< PORT 136,165,113,172,15,120E7 >>> 200 Port 15.120 at Host 136.165.113.172 accepted.c! <<< RETR netscape_viewtrack.txt f >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/vmslt99a/sec/netscape_viewtrack.txt (3734 bytes) started.: >>> 226 Transfer completed.  3434 (8) bytes transferred.! <<< PORT 136,165,113,172,15,121c7 >>> 200 Port 15.121 at Host 136.165.113.172 accepted.c <<< RETR netlog-1_2.tgz9_ >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/vmslt99a/sec/netlog-1_2.tgz (67252 bytes) started. ; >>> 226 Transfer completed.  66892 (8) bytes transferred.H! <<< PORT 136,165,113,172,15,122<7 >>> 200 Port 15.122 at Host 136.165.113.172 accepted.o' <<< RETR netfilter-1999-04-23_tar.bz2vn >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/vmslt99a/sec/netfilter-1999-04-23_tar.bz2 (205822 bytes) started.< >>> 226 Transfer completed.  204802 (8) bytes transferred.! <<< PORT 136,165,113,172,15,127_7 >>> 200 Port 15.127 at Host 136.165.113.172 accepted.t <<< RETR netcrk.zip(\ >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/vmslt99a/sec/netcrk.zip (158635 bytes) started.< >>> 226 Transfer completed.  157781 (8) bytes transferred.! <<< PORT 136,165,113,172,15,128n7 >>> 200 Port 15.128 at Host 136.165.113.172 accepted.  <<< RETR netcrime.txt/^ >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/vmslt99a/sec/netcrime.txt (113850 bytes) started.< >>> 226 Transfer completed.  113478 (8) bytes transferred.! <<< PORT 136,165,113,172,15,130.7 >>> 200 Port 15.130 at Host 136.165.113.172 accepted.G <<< RETR netcat-x99mod.exeb >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/vmslt99a/sec/netcat-x99mod.exe (60416 bytes) started.; >>> 226 Transfer completed.  59392 (8) bytes transferred.t! <<< PORT 136,165,113,172,15,131e7 >>> 200 Port 15.131 at Host 136.165.113.172 accepted.e <<< RETR netcat-x80mod.exeb >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/vmslt99a/sec/netcat-x80mod.exe (32768 bytes) started.; >>> 226 Transfer completed.  31744 (8) bytes transferred. ! <<< PORT 136,165,113,172,15,133 7 >>> 200 Port 15.133 at Host 136.165.113.172 accepted.  <<< RETR netbus2.zip^ >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/vmslt99a/sec/netbus2.zip (1497061 bytes) started.= >>> 226 Transfer com