1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 13 Mar 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 141       Contents: Re: 164LX and 21164 question* Apache authentication/authorization issues. Re: Apache authentication/authorization issues% Backward compatibility of executables ) Re: Backward compatibility of executables ) Re: Backward compatibility of executables ) Re: Backward compatibility of executables 9 Cerner delivers quality healthcare solutions with OpenVMS = Re: Cerner delivers quality healthcare solutions with OpenVMS = Re: Cerner delivers quality healthcare solutions with OpenVMS = Re: Cerner delivers quality healthcare solutions with OpenVMS = Re: Cerner delivers quality healthcare solutions with OpenVMS = Re: Cerner delivers quality healthcare solutions with OpenVMS , Re: couple of questions about the BACKUP CLI1 Re: DECnet SERVICE CIRCUIT for multiple e-devices  DSM use with clusters. Re: DSM use with clusters. Re: DSM use with clusters. Re: DSM use with clusters.4 First Hammer compatible game ships? Before the chip?' Re: Floppy Driver for VAX 3100 Model 30 ( Re: how to pick out OpenVMS I64 in code?( Re: how to pick out OpenVMS I64 in code?. Re: Is http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/ down? Re: LOCKTIMEB Music has always been 'the other man' in my partners eyes... 16582* RE: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants* Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants* RE: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants* Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants* Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants* Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants* RE: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants* Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants* Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants* Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants* Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants* Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants Re: One version of a file ONLY.  Re: One version of a file ONLY.  Re: One version of a file ONLY.  Re: One version of a file ONLY. P Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marveland Alpha Retai1 RE: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 1 Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 1 Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 1 Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 1 Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 1 Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 1 Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 1 Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 1 Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants  OT: the power of VMS Re: Problem with DELETE " Re: RP06's and Field Service calls SSH server EAK - X forwarding ! Re: SSH server EAK - X forwarding  Re: unix Re: unix Re: unix Re: unix Re: unix Re: unix Re: unix Re: unix Re: VAX Shared SCSI anyone?  Re: VAX Shared SCSI anyone?  Re: VAX Shared SCSI anyone?  Re: VAX Shared SCSI anyone?  Re: VAX Shared SCSI anyone?  Re: VMS - duplicating database  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 20:33:36 +0100 " From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>% Subject: Re: 164LX and 21164 question 6 Message-ID: <b4o22k$21jce6$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>  : "Roland Barmettler" <rob@bbp.remove.ch> schreef in bericht1 news:20030311101701.75f216d6.rob@bbp.remove.ch...  > Hello Guys > H > Has any of you tried running VMS on a 164SX ? It does boot from the CDG > but machine checks just before installation... is it possible at all, : > or are the differences between the SX and LX too large ? >  > Greetings, Roland   K Did you modify the file called "nvram" ? It is a console file and needs two C statements to allow VMS (and TRU64) to run on WNT designated boxes. C Try Google for a recent thread in comp.sys.dec where the proper srm  incantations were posted.    ------------------------------    Date: 12 Mar 2003 14:44:08 -0800" From: ewilts@ewilts.org (Ed Wilts)3 Subject: Apache authentication/authorization issues = Message-ID: <995e39b6.0303121444.23a8eed2@posting.google.com>   D Perhaps what I'm looking for is obvious, but I sure haven't found it yet...  E What I need to do is authenticate a user against a a VMS account, and A then do *all* operations within Apache as that user.  I'd like to C avoid having the application do individual checks, since frankly, I E don't trust my developers to get it right (their attitude has been to D just give the apache$www the rights and not check whether or not the@ user also has those rights) .  I'm looking for a relatively easy? interface they need to run first in their scripts, and then I'm C thinking the rest of the session will be run as a thread under that / user.  Is this do-able?  What pieces do I need?    Thanks, 	    .../Ed    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 23:26:46 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")7 Subject: Re: Apache authentication/authorization issues 6 Message-ID: <00A1CC34.421B267F@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  b In article <995e39b6.0303121444.23a8eed2@posting.google.com>, ewilts@ewilts.org (Ed Wilts) writes:E >Perhaps what I'm looking for is obvious, but I sure haven't found it  >yet...  > F >What I need to do is authenticate a user against a a VMS account, andB >then do *all* operations within Apache as that user.  I'd like toD >avoid having the application do individual checks, since frankly, IF >don't trust my developers to get it right (their attitude has been toE >just give the apache$www the rights and not check whether or not the A >user also has those rights) .  I'm looking for a relatively easy @ >interface they need to run first in their scripts, and then I'mD >thinking the rest of the session will be run as a thread under that0 >user.  Is this do-able?  What pieces do I need?  M To do this the way you're describing it, you'd require VMS authentication for E each script, and then have the script use the PERSONA services to set K themselves to the identity of REMOTE_USER.  It might be even better to just : make the webserver run the script as the user in question.    N SuEXEC support, which is in CSWS 1.3.  (It's mentioned - as not there yet - inJ my book, which was printed before 1.3 came out.)  Uses PERSONA services toN impersonate appropriate users.  Haven't played with it, but it should be able . to do what you need, maybe with some fiddling.  L You should be able to find documentation on suEXEC for Apache in general on  www.apache.org  J (I assume by "do *all* operations within Apache as that user" you mean runL CGIs as that user, rather than write to system logs, etc, as that user.)  IfM you wanted to run one virtual host for each user [which you don't, unless you L only have two or three users] you could use the User directive for the whole virtualhost.  = PS: This requirement would be extremely easy to fill in WASD.    -- Alan   O =============================================================================== 0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056 M  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025 O ===============================================================================    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 01:59:20 GMT 8 From: "Sloan Essman" <sessman@spamnomore.houston.rr.com>. Subject: Backward compatibility of executables; Message-ID: <YBRba.38050$z54.1999925@twister.austin.rr.com>   E We have recently purchased a new system for our developers to replace C our old system running VMS 6.2. The new system is running VMS 7.3-1 C and the minimum version requirement was somewhere in the 7.2 range. C We sill have a lot of customers running 6.2. Does anyone know where B I could look up the compatibility of our 7.3 generated executablesA with the older systems running 6.2 to find a minumum version that  they will have to run?  D We're already prepared to tell the 6.2 customers that they will need@ to upgrade, but for example we have 7.1 and 7.2 customers and weC don't want to cause those guys grief if they don't need to upgrade.   A I've tried to check the "Ask the Wizard" web page, but the search # feature isn't working for me today.    TIA for any pointers!  Sloan Essman Landata Systems, Inc.  Houston, Texas   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 20:46:44 -0600  From: brandon@dalsemi.com 2 Subject: Re: Backward compatibility of executables1 Message-ID: <03031220464445@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>   I >>> We have recently purchased a new system for our developers to replace G >>> our old system running VMS 6.2. The new system is running VMS 7.3-1 G >>> and the minimum version requirement was somewhere in the 7.2 range. G >>> We sill have a lot of customers running 6.2. Does anyone know where F >>> I could look up the compatibility of our 7.3 generated executablesE >>> with the older systems running 6.2 to find a minumum version that  >>> they will have to run?  B Are these in-house applications, layered products, or third party?   Alpha to Alpha?   K In-house applications; I have found that most applications run backward and J forward with few exceptions.  We have went from V5.5, V6.1, V7.1 (VAX) andO found only one issue - re-complied the code and off we went.  (Now that was VAX J and VAX compilers were more tolerant to bad coding practice.)  This changeP centered around RMS (RAB) initializing read statement using null values (V6.2).   K Other issues have to do with the digital/Compaq/HP reserved bits for future M use.  A past employer of mine did an ANAL/IMAGE for Q/A purposes and if there N were any changes in the difference of previous code exe, they would report it.M Sure it was a bit anal (get it ANAL/, snicker) - but it demonstrates the need A for caution.  The bit in this case had no effect on the software.   L Layered-Products; most LP have a minimum VMS version they require to run on;H however from time to time LP may not be forward compatible.  From what I7 have read and heard of V7.3 - this may cause you greif.   ' Third-party; Contact them and find out.   H >>> We're already prepared to tell the 6.2 customers that they will needD >>> to upgrade, but for example we have 7.1 and 7.2 customers and weG >>> don't want to cause those guys grief if they don't need to upgrade.   J The options are to (1) test existing code or (2) recompile and still test.  O Turn to the release notes for each version of VMS between V6.2 through V7.3 and N review the them for changes and updates, new features etc.  This may help shed light on potential problems.  E >>> I've tried to check the "Ask the Wizard" web page, but the search ' >>> feature isn't working for me today.   M If you have a support contract with HP you may want to send them an e-mail or  do a search in DSN (WIS).   O Some compilers have backward compatibility switches - which would be helpful in  re-compile.   J Also, hardware dependencies will also play a role.  Code that ran on a EV5F chip will run on a EV6/7 etc., however it may not be optimized and the performance may run degraded.     I I was reviewing our third party pacakages (V7.2 to V7.3) and found that a M number of them (ORACLE, RDB, CDD, etc) were not supported.  Now granted, "Not M supported" does not mean it will not run, however if there are issues with it N the response will more than likely be "upgrade" to fix it.  However, I do haveD my concerns and I understand that there are some changes in the O/S.     >>> TIA for any pointers!  >>> Sloan Essman >>> Landata Systems, Inc.  >>> Houston, Texas  / Hope this helps and starts you down the path...    John Brandon VMS Systems Administrator  Dallas Semiconductor john.brandon@dalsemi.com 972.371.4172 wk  972.371.4003 fx    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 02:51:19 GMT / From: brooks@cuebid.zko.dec.nospam (Rob Brooks) 2 Subject: Re: Backward compatibility of executables- Message-ID: <ti38Rf33igD2@cuebid.zko.dec.com>   ;  "Sloan Essman" <sessman@spamnomore.houston.rr.com> writes: G > We have recently purchased a new system for our developers to replace E > our old system running VMS 6.2. The new system is running VMS 7.3-1 E > and the minimum version requirement was somewhere in the 7.2 range. E > We sill have a lot of customers running 6.2. Does anyone know where D > I could look up the compatibility of our 7.3 generated executablesC > with the older systems running 6.2 to find a minumum version that  > they will have to run? > F > We're already prepared to tell the 6.2 customers that they will needB > to upgrade, but for example we have 7.1 and 7.2 customers and weE > don't want to cause those guys grief if they don't need to upgrade.    Try   . http://h71000.www7.hp.com/wizard/wiz_3761.html. http://h71000.www7.hp.com/wizard/wiz_5192.html/ http://h71000.www7.hp.com/wizard/wiz_6829.html    G The short answer is that you must link on the oldest version of OpenVMS M that you want your software to run.  You can play games with various logicals N (SYS$SHARE, etc...) to point to libraries from older versions and link against  them, but that is not supported.  G You should not expect an image linked against V7.3-1 to run on an older 	 version.      --    M Rob Brooks    VMS Engineering -- I/O Exec Group     brooks!cuebid.zko.dec.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 00:50:45 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>2 Subject: Re: Backward compatibility of executables/ Message-ID: <3E700DF3.BEEE3249@vl.videotron.ca>   I > You should not expect an image linked against V7.3-1 to run on an older 
 > version.  M Best bet, in my opinion, is to provide object libraries/modules and then havd L a "link" procedure that executes on the target system. That allows you to beN far more version independant. And if the customer upgrades, downgrades etc, he" can relink against the new system.   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Mar 2003 11:09:35 -08001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) B Subject: Cerner delivers quality healthcare solutions with OpenVMS= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0303121109.6e57dd32@posting.google.com>   ( A new success story on the VMS web site:  E "Did you know that 80 percent of healthcare institutions using Cerner C Corporation's Millennium applications depend on AlphaServer systems > running OpenVMS?  A just-published success story looks at thisC innovative company and how it has transformed healthcare delivery.  E Cerner has streamlined the way healthcare providers share information > by connecting the right people with the right resources, whileF virtually eliminating paperwork.  Since the 1980s, when Cerner created@ a groundbreaking lab system on the OpenVMS operating system, the7 company has relied on HP technology to build its unique > "patient-centric" information architecture.  The success story? discusses how Cerner is now hosting and managing IT systems for D hospitals and medical centers across the United States, more than 95C percent of whom depend on OpenVMS on AlphaServer systems to achieve F 99.8 percent uptime.  According to Rod Coombs, Cerner's vice presidentB of Technology Product Management, "when an application absolutely,E positively has to stay up, OpenVMS is the only platform to use." From C clustering to security, from next-generation AlphaServer systems to < StorageWorks SANs, Cerner relies on HP technology to deliverF high-quality, cost-effective solutions to the healthcare industry.  To read the success story, go to @ http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/brochures/cerner/index.html or= http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/brochures/cerner/cerner.pdf    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 20:24:10 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> F Subject: Re: Cerner delivers quality healthcare solutions with OpenVMSI Message-ID: <KHMba.105914$em1.41542@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   > "Keith Parris" <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message7 news:cf15391e.0303121109.6e57dd32@posting.google.com... * > A new success story on the VMS web site: > @ > "Did you know that 80 percent of healthcare institutions using CernerE > Corporation's Millennium applications depend on AlphaServer systems @ > running OpenVMS?  A just-published success story looks at thisD > innovative company and how it has transformed healthcare delivery.; > Cerner has streamlined the way healthcare providers share  information @ > by connecting the right people with the right resources, while@ > virtually eliminating paperwork.  Since the 1980s, when Cerner created B > a groundbreaking lab system on the OpenVMS operating system, the9 > company has relied on HP technology to build its unique @ > "patient-centric" information architecture.  The success storyA > discusses how Cerner is now hosting and managing IT systems for F > hospitals and medical centers across the United States, more than 95E > percent of whom depend on OpenVMS on AlphaServer systems to achieve > > 99.8 percent uptime.  According to Rod Coombs, Cerner's vice	 president D > of Technology Product Management, "when an application absolutely,B > positively has to stay up, OpenVMS is the only platform to use." FromE > clustering to security, from next-generation AlphaServer systems to > > StorageWorks SANs, Cerner relies on HP technology to deliverD > high-quality, cost-effective solutions to the healthcare industry. To > read the success story, go to B > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/brochures/cerner/index.html or? > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/brochures/cerner/cerner.pdf      So the tagline ought to be...   F "People die if our systems aren't up - It doesn't get any more missionC critical than this. That's why we use OpenVMS and Alphaservers from  HP."   ------------------------------   Date: 12 Mar 03 23:30:35 +0100) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) F Subject: Re: Cerner delivers quality healthcare solutions with OpenVMS) Message-ID: <UHc5B1a1Q3dr@elias.decus.ch>   o In article <KHMba.105914$em1.41542@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:  > @ > "Keith Parris" <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message9 > news:cf15391e.0303121109.6e57dd32@posting.google.com... + >> A new success story on the VMS web site:  >>A >> "Did you know that 80 percent of healthcare institutions using  > CernerF >> Corporation's Millennium applications depend on AlphaServer systemsA >> running OpenVMS?  A just-published success story looks at this E >> innovative company and how it has transformed healthcare delivery. < >> Cerner has streamlined the way healthcare providers share
 > information A >> by connecting the right people with the right resources, while A >> virtually eliminating paperwork.  Since the 1980s, when Cerner 	 > created C >> a groundbreaking lab system on the OpenVMS operating system, the : >> company has relied on HP technology to build its uniqueA >> "patient-centric" information architecture.  The success story B >> discusses how Cerner is now hosting and managing IT systems forG >> hospitals and medical centers across the United States, more than 95 F >> percent of whom depend on OpenVMS on AlphaServer systems to achieve? >> 99.8 percent uptime.  According to Rod Coombs, Cerner's vice  > president E >> of Technology Product Management, "when an application absolutely, C >> positively has to stay up, OpenVMS is the only platform to use."  > FromF >> clustering to security, from next-generation AlphaServer systems to? >> StorageWorks SANs, Cerner relies on HP technology to deliver E >> high-quality, cost-effective solutions to the healthcare industry.  > To  >> read the success story, go toC >> http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/brochures/cerner/index.html or @ >> http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/brochures/cerner/cerner.pdf >  >  > So the tagline ought to be...  > H > "People die if our systems aren't up - It doesn't get any more missionE > critical than this. That's why we use OpenVMS and Alphaservers from  > HP." >   4 "The worm must please the fish and not the angler."   A Drifting slightly, but here's something I found refreshing in the C light of Digital then Compaq trying to tell us to migrate away from D VMS. A CEO trying to give customers what they want, rather than what is deemed best for them...  C From a motoring article in the Sonntagszeitung (Sunday Times) here, ? journalists had written if the soon to be released VW Touran as 	 "boring".   A 'Volkswagen boss Bernd Pischetsrieder countered with the Bavarian ? saying: "The worm must please the fish and not the angler." For C Volkswagen it is to be hoped that sufficient fish, speak customers,  snatch at this worm.'   ( (the article, in German, can be found at^ > http://www.sonntagszeitung.ch/sz/szUnterRubrik.html?ausgabeid=2925&rubrikid=119&ArtId=263231   no doubt that will wrap)     --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Mar 2003 18:25:17 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)F Subject: Re: Cerner delivers quality healthcare solutions with OpenVMS= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0303121825.6f3f6fb5@posting.google.com>   v keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) wrote in message news:<cf15391e.0303121109.6e57dd32@posting.google.com>...  8 "There are many reasons why Cerner started  and remains: with  OpenVMS.  Coombs explains, "At its root, you need a9 solid, dependable, high performance system. It doesn't do 7 you any good to have the right answer two minutes after 3 you needed it. We settled on OpenVMS because of its ; significant fault tolerant capabilities. Clearly, an outage - in a healthcare system is extremely critical. ; OpenVMS on AlphaServer systems allows us to measure outages 8 in milliseconds rather than minutes  something no other7 operating system allows us to do." "When an application : absolutely, positively has to stay up, OpenVMS is the only< platform to use," agrees Mustard,who says he makes decisions6 based on logic and experience rather than "managing by: magazine." To Mustard, the biggest advantage of OpenVMS is5 what he calls "real clusters."  He explains, "OpenVMS : clusters give me the ability to move clients automatically: from one set of hardware to another without ever having to7 take them down. You cannot do that with other operating 1 systems. And you can incrementally add new disks, 9 controllers, and servers to the cluster and never outgrow : it. The beauty of OpenVMS clusters is that I don't have to8 forklift anything." Security is always a top concern for; healthcare clients, and OpenVMS is part of Cerner's elegant 6 security solution.  "OpenVMS has been determined to be9 virtually unhackable," says Coombs.  "That's certainly an = attractive anchor point around which to build your solutions. 3 And OpenVMS version 7.3-1 offers even more security ; enhancements." new technologies offer greater advantages To 9 advance the benefits it brings to its healthcare clients, 9 Cerner continually looks to new technologies. Both Coombs 9 and Mustard share excitement about the HP Next Generation < AlphaServer systems, which Cerner and HP are jointly testing: at the HP lab in Nashua, New Hampshire. Mustard says, "The3 test numbers we're seeing in the evaluation lab are / absolutely mind boggling. An HP Next Generation 5 AlphaServer system ran 40% faster on  six CPUs than a 6 competitive mainframe did with 28 CPUs. In addition to7 offering a quantum increase in speed, these systems are 7 dramatically more affordable.  They'll also give me the 9 flexibility to partition one system into several distinct ; instances of OpenVMS." "Our joint testing shows that the HP 8 Next Generation AlphaServer systems running OpenVMS have9 significant performance improvements over any platform or 5 configuration we've ever worked with, "states Coombs. 3 "And the ease of upgrading our application from the 8 AlphaServer GS160 to the GS1280 was seamless. We're very7 excited about getting GS1280 systems into our installed : base as soon as possible."  Cerner is also looking forward9 to the benefits of the Intel Itanium architecture. "I'm 9 very excited about the porting of OpenVMS to the Itanium ; architecture because I think it will drive down the cost of 9 an OpenVMS solution," says Mustard. Coombs concludes, "HP ; and OpenVMS remain a very strong strategic path for Cerner.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 20:59:41 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> F Subject: Re: Cerner delivers quality healthcare solutions with OpenVMS' Message-ID: <3E6FF41D.46643680@fsi.net>    Keith Parris wrote:  > * > A new success story on the VMS web site: > G > "Did you know that 80 percent of healthcare institutions using Cerner E > Corporation's Millennium applications depend on AlphaServer systems  > running OpenVMS?     *Heavy Sigh*  F Now, if *ONLY* we could getthat into print ina major, mainstream trade publication.  D Does anyone think Carly could be convinced to skip her vacation this! year so we can advertise OpenVMS?    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 01:00:11 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>F Subject: Re: Cerner delivers quality healthcare solutions with OpenVMS/ Message-ID: <3E701028.9C136F24@vl.videotron.ca>   I > > "Did you know that 80 percent of healthcare institutions using Cerner G > > Corporation's Millennium applications depend on AlphaServer systems  > > running OpenVMS?  ( to be the devil's advicate for a minute:  M If 80% of Cerner customers chose VMS, what percentage of health care industry  chose Cerner ?  M Also, is VMS the prime platform for Cerner ? EG: Is Cerner trying to grow the ) 80% , or grow the 20% that isn't on VMS ?    ------------------------------    Date: 12 Mar 2003 15:43:05 -0800. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)5 Subject: Re: couple of questions about the BACKUP CLI = Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0303121543.131f1302@posting.google.com>   | Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message news:<01KTFX7F9D589H1MPS@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>... > If I do something like >  >    $ DIR/SIN=YES/BEF   > G > and get a list of files, then replace DIR with BACK in order to back  > > those same files up, BACKUP sometimes produces more files.  D > (Unfortunately, it doesn't happen all the time, so I don't have a 4 > reproducer right now.)  Has anyone else seen this?    F Yes. The default for most (if not all other) commands is /CREATED. TheE default for BACKUP is /MODIFIED. Since you may easily have more files = /MODIFIED/SINCE=YES than /CREATED/SINC=YES, that explains it.   D Why is the default different? Because /MODIFIED is what you normally want with BACKUP.      
 > If I do  > 3 >    $  PIPE BACK/LIST X.BCK/SAVE > SYS$SCRATCH:X.X  > = > then I get the output in SYS$SCRATCH:X.X.  However, if I do  > = >    $  PIPE BACK/LIST X.BCK/SAVE | SEARCH SYS$INPUT <string>  > 
 > then I get   > , >    %SEARCH-I-NOMATCHES, no strings matched > F > but so quickly it is obvious that it didn't actually search all the J > output (which is also obvious from the fact that the message comes even  > if the string is there).     Don't use PIPE.      Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 20:42:28 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> : Subject: Re: DECnet SERVICE CIRCUIT for multiple e-devices' Message-ID: <3E6FF014.5871C85C@fsi.net>    brandon@dalsemi.com wrote: > L > >>> From the "little known MOP facts" file (based on my exprience thru and, > >>> including V5.5-2, VERY unofficial))... > 9 > Mmmmmm, this sounds GOOD!  I like the unofficial stuff.  > F > >>> If a device requesting a load asks for a specific file, any nodeJ > >>> receiving that request with service enabled on the receiving circuitL > >>> can/will attempt to service the request. All that's needed is that theN > >>> requested file be present in the MOM$SYSTEM path (or maybe its MOM$LOAD, > >>> I forget).  B What I forgot to mention: any node that has service enabled on theA circuit where the request is received will attempt to service the E requrest, regardless of whether or not the node is registered in that  node's local database.  H Saw that with Xyplex MAXServers on V5.5-2. The VAX 6000-410 has the loadG file, the MicroVAX 3100 didn't. They both tried to service the request. E The MicroVAX's console term. quickly filled with OPCOM messages about G the load file not being found in the MOM$whatver path (don't recall the E exact text). It only had the load file for the DECserver-300, not the  Xyplex.    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 20:17:44 -0000 - From: "Steve Spires" <Steve.Spires@torex.com>  Subject: DSM use with clusters. E Message-ID: <91947A84607D9D48B8E674A5FAB54DA6854443@tahiti.tinuk.com>   9 Is anyone out there using DSM in a clustered environment?   G If so, would you mind me asking you questions about the setup etc as we A might be looking at this as a solution, but I've heard DSM can be H problematical in clusters, especially if shadowing is in use [don't know' the details, just what I've been told].    Cheers   Steve Spires Technical Consultant Torex Health [T] +44 (0) 1295 274200  [F] +44 (0) 1295 275131 
 www.torex.com    ------------------------------    Date: 12 Mar 2003 14:56:07 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) # Subject: Re: DSM use with clusters. 3 Message-ID: <hz6Fi5$Al2wW@eisner.encompasserve.org>   u In article <91947A84607D9D48B8E674A5FAB54DA6854443@tahiti.tinuk.com>, "Steve Spires" <Steve.Spires@torex.com> writes: ; > Is anyone out there using DSM in a clustered environment?  >    	Yes.   I > If so, would you mind me asking you questions about the setup etc as we C > might be looking at this as a solution, but I've heard DSM can be J > problematical in clusters, especially if shadowing is in use [don't know) > the details, just what I've been told].    	Shadowing works well.  @ 	You can ask questions.  One or two I'll have to answer offline.   			Rob   ------------------------------   Date: 12 Mar 03 13:57:50 PST From: mckinneyj@cpva.saic.com # Subject: Re: DSM use with clusters. ( Message-ID: <Zvs0cU9BfBsw@cpva.saic.com>  E In article <91947A84607D9D48B8E674A5FAB54DA6854443@tahiti.tinuk.com>, 0  "Steve Spires" <Steve.Spires@torex.com> writes:; > Is anyone out there using DSM in a clustered environment?  >    yep   I > If so, would you mind me asking you questions about the setup etc as we C > might be looking at this as a solution, but I've heard DSM can be J > problematical in clusters, especially if shadowing is in use [don't know) > the details, just what I've been told].  >   G I know of no general problems with DSM in a clustered environment - DSM G shares all the benefits and all the heartaches that VMS does. (Volume?) D shadowing works well with DSM - no problems that I'm aware of (we'reE probably using volume shadowing in conjunction with VMSclusters at 50 E sites or so). Shadow copies/merges bring performance degradation; but E that would be true of any application accessing a volume undergoing a  copy/merge.   G That being said... there are two (DSM) bugs that do cause problems in a J clustered environment. The DDP driver (used for serving remote volumes andI AIJ traffic) does not support more than 1500 (it's actually slightly more I but I forget the exact number) user sessions per node. And, occasionally, F in a VMScluster where there are 3 or more nodes accessing a single DSMD environment, should the DSM journal master node (the first node in aJ cluster that starts up a given environment) fail, (and this is infrequent)C the next-in-line for journal master responsibility is unable to get G exclusive access of the journal files (one of the other remaining nodes N has it locked) and a deadlock is seen until the offending node is forced out.   K You might also consider posting to comp.lang.mumps; though not DSM specific 4 there are some lurking there that use (or used) DSM.   --   - Jim    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 01:18:24 GMT  From: dittman@dittman.net # Subject: Re: DSM use with clusters. 8 Message-ID: <A%Qba.23655$qB5.16144@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>  , Steve Spires <Steve.Spires@torex.com> wrote:; > Is anyone out there using DSM in a clustered environment?    Yes.  I > If so, would you mind me asking you questions about the setup etc as we C > might be looking at this as a solution, but I've heard DSM can bepJ > problematical in clusters, especially if shadowing is in use [don't know) > the details, just what I've been told].b  ? DSM works in clusters.  Maybe you're thinking of ISM?  ISM willa not work in clusters.   . As for shadowing, it works very well with DSM. -- n Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.nete   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 12:34:52 -0800l$ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>= Subject: First Hammer compatible game ships? Before the chip?v0 Message-ID: <01C2E893.E57853E0@sulfer.icius.com>  5 http://www.amdzone.com/releaseview.cfm?ReleaseID=1050M  E Valve just shipped the server portion of Counter Strike for Opteron /U) Linux. There's some performance info too:u  G "In a straight port of code highly optimized for x86-32, Counter-Strike G dedicated server tests with both 32- and 64-bit versions revealed a 30% G clock-for-clock gain, and is expected to show further performance gainsc in future upgrades."  F 30% is pretty respectable, especially at the same clock speed. I think& there's going to be a market for that.   Shanen  >  #####   -----------------------------------------------------? #-O-O-# | Arthur: "It's times like this I wish I'd listened   |l? #  L  # | to what my Mother used to say." Ford: Why, what did |e?  #===#  | she say?" Arthur: "I don't know, I didn't listen."  |l>   ###    -----------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 16:04:45 -0500r; From: "Brian Tillman" <Brian.Tillman@notnoone.notnohow.com>r0 Subject: Re: Floppy Driver for VAX 3100 Model 30$ Message-ID: <3e6fa0ea$1@news.si.com>  ( >Can anyone please lead me to this stuff  J I'm not sure what you mean, but if you want to use the floppy drive that'sJ available on your VAXstation 3100, then use it.  It's device DUA2.  Use it& like you use any other VMS disk drive. --  I Brian Tillman         Internet: Brian.Tillman at smiths-aerospace dot comy5 Smiths Aerospace  Addresses modified to prevent SPAM.t@ 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS Replace "at" with "@", "dot" with "." Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991s8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Mar 2003 13:45:05 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)o1 Subject: Re: how to pick out OpenVMS I64 in code? 3 Message-ID: <pw6UaJCXlDzN@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  c In article <q+vEQNal8Ghl@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:xs > In article <BCvSnRYwHkGA@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:A >> rK >>    As I'm wandering through, editting source anyway, I wonder if I could = >>    now make changes in support of future migration to IPF.- >> -E >>    So can anyone say what C, C++, and BLISS keywords I can pick up0C >>    which are the IPF equivalent to #ifdef __vax, #ifdef __alpha,4 >>    %BLISS32E()? >> b= >>    How about the return for f$getsyi("arch_name") et. al.?  > D > This is included in the VMS V7.3-1 documentation (I forget whether- > it is Release Notes or New Features Guide).f  A    I can find the system services values, and I can guess the DCLaH    lexicals from them, but I'm really more interested in the conditional    compilation macros.  G    There are white papers that say both #ifdef __vax and #ifdef __alphafJ    code may have to change, that "#ifdef __vax #else other" is less likelyG    to have to change, but nothing that says it will be __ipf or __ia64,n    or what.o  F    I figure if VMS boots, there must be at least cross-compilers and IB    would suspect the compiler macros are already in use within VMSC    engineering.  I don't expect VMS engineering to have a complete n=    rundown of all the kinds of code that will have to change.g   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Mar 2003 15:36:13 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)e1 Subject: Re: how to pick out OpenVMS I64 in code?d3 Message-ID: <xetvwc3f4jj6@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  q In article <pw6UaJCXlDzN@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:h  I >    There are white papers that say both #ifdef __vax and #ifdef __alphahL >    code may have to change, that "#ifdef __vax #else other" is less likelyI >    to have to change, but nothing that says it will be __ipf or __ia64, 
 >    or what.r  D If you do have code where AXP and IPF differ and IF AXP is not goingG to work (because the code is exclusive to IPF), I don't see how you can-E possibly know that at this point what the necessary code changes are.@   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 21:08:32 -0600:1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>g7 Subject: Re: Is http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/ down?t' Message-ID: <3E6FF630.E625BA25@fsi.net>g   HarrisNewman wrote:i > F > I haven't been able to get to it since Saturday.  I've sent messagesC > to the web master as well as the contacts, without response. Doesa* > anyone know if the hobbist site is down?  H Came up for me, but took a while. May be having spam-bomb trouble again.   -- p David J. Dachterad dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/a   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Mar 2003 15:57:00 -08001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)  Subject: Re: LOCKTIME = Message-ID: <cf15391e.0303121557.24328ba5@posting.google.com>   R brandon@dalsemi.com wrote in message news:<03031210304511@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>...4 >   Latency for the GS160 cluster was 358.3 to 394.04 >   Latency for the MC cluster    was 128.9 to 152.5 > ? > Now my curiosity is running amuck...  thank you very much! :Pt > H > My assumption would have been that the GS160 memory SCS would have out > performed the MC.   C Are you running SCS over Galaxy SMCI directly via the PBA0 port, ort9 indirectly through PEDRIVER and EBA0?  (You can use $SHOWiC CLUSTER/CONTINUOUS with ADD CIRCUITS,CONNECTIONS and see which portrB the SCS connection for the VMS$VAXcluster SYSAP is going through.)  C Another more-likely possibility is that there happened to be higherdD loading on the Galaxy SMCI than on the MC at the time of the tests. A (Sometimes folks will route TCP/IP traffic between nodes via SMCIe@ through the EBA0 devices, for example, which, while it speeds upA TCP/IP traffic, can also raise latencies for lock requests.)  Your= might measure the SMCI latency again during an unloaded time.o   ------------------------------  + Date: Wednesday, 12 Mar 2003 05:23:52 -0600t From: swissblondes@hotmail.comK Subject: Music has always been 'the other man' in my partners eyes... 16582=' Message-ID: <12030305.2352@hotmail.com>o   Music has always been 'the other man' in my partners eyes...and - I guess music IS like a lover in many ways...but it's NOT the same.L     begin 644 chelsey.html= M/&AT;6P^#0H-"CQH96%D/@T*/'1I=&QE/E-H;W @9F]R(%-E>"!4;WES+"!!== M9'5L="!6:61E;W,L($%D=6QT($161',@86YD($5X;W1I8R!,:6YG97)I92$\-= M+W1I=&QE/@T*/"]H96%D/@T*#0H\8F]D>2!B9V-O;&]R/2(C,# P,# P(B!Tm= M97AT/2(C9F9F9F9F(B!L:6YK/2(C9F9F9F9F(B!V;&EN:STB(V9F9F9F9B(@B= M86QI;FL](B,P,&9F,# B/@T*/&(^/&9O;G0@9F%C93TB87)I86PB('-I>F4]z= M(C0B/CQA#0IH<F5F/2)H='1P.B\O=W=W+F5R;W1I8W-H;W!P:6YG+F-O;2]Ad= M9F9I;&EA=&5S+W-T;W)E+S,T,C0Q-BYH=&UL(CX-"@T*/"]S8W)I<'0^/"]Fn= M;VYT/CPO8CX\+W ^#0H-"CQP(&%L:6=N/2)C96YT97(B/CQB/CQF;VYT(&9Ai= M8V4](F%R:6%L(B!S:7IE/2(T(CX\80T*:')E9CTB:'1T<#HO+W=W=RYE<F]Tl= M:6-S:&]P<&EN9RYC;VTO869F:6QI871E<R]S=&]R92\S-#(T,38N:'1M;"(^ = M0G5Y(%-E>"!4;WES+"!!9'5L= T*5FED96]S+"!!9'5L="!$5D1S(&%N9"!%l= M>&]T:6,@3&EN9V5R:64A/&)R/@T*0VAA<V5Y($QA:6XL($IE;FYA($IA;65Sn= M;VXL($YI:VMI(%1Y;&5R+"!*96YT96%L+"!*=6QI($%S:'1O;B!A;F0@;6]Rl= M92XN+CPO83X\+V9O;G0^/"]B/B \+W ^#0H\9&EV(&%L:6=N/2)C96YT97(Bm= M/CQC96YT97(^#0H-"CQT86)L92!C96QL<&%D9&EN9STB,"(@8V5L;'-P86-Ih= M;F<](C0B(&)O<F1E<CTB,"(@8F=C;VQO<CTB(V9F,#!F9B(^#0H@(#QT<CX- = M"B @(" \=&0^/'1A8FQE(&-E;&QP861D:6YG/2(P(B!C96QL<W!A8VEN9STBs= M,"(@8F]R9&5R/2(P(B!B9V-O;&]R/2(C9F8P,&9F(CX-"B @(" @(#QT<CX-m= M"B @(" @(" @/'1D/CQA(&AR968](FAT=' Z+R]W=W<N97)O=&EC<VAO<'!I-= M;F<N8V]M+V%F9FEL:6%T97,O<W1O<F4O,S0R-#$V+FAT;6PB/CQI;6<-"B @r= M(" @(" @<W)C/2)H='1P.B\O=W=W+F5R;W1I8W-H;W!P:6YG+F-O;2]A9F9Iu= M;&EA=&5S+V)A;FYE<G,O8VAA<V5Y7S P,2YJ<&<B('=I9'1H/2(T-S<B#0H@>= M(" @(" @(&AE:6=H=#TB,C0X(B!B;W)D97(](C B/CPO83X\+W1D/@T*(" @ = M(" @/"]T<CX-"B @(" @(#QT<CX-"B @(" @(" @/'1D/CQA(&AR968](FAT = M=' Z+R]W=W<N97)O=&EC<VAO<'!I;F<N8V]M+V%F9FEL:6%T97,O<W1O<F4O = M,S0R-#$V+FAT;6PB/CQI;6<-"B @(" @(" @<W)C/2)H='1P.B\O=W=W+F5Rr= M;W1I8W-H;W!P:6YG+F-O;2]A9F9I;&EA=&5S+V)A;FYE<G,O8VAA<V5Y7S P = M,BYJ<&<B('=I9'1H/2(T-S<B#0H@(" @(" @(&AE:6=H=#TB,C W(B!B;W)Dd= M97(](C B/CPO83X\+W1D/@T*(" @(" @/"]T<CX-"B @(" @(#QT<CX-"B @y= M(" @(" @/'1D/CQA(&AR968](FAT=' Z+R]W=W<N97)O=&EC<VAO<'!I;F<Np= M8V]M+V%F9FEL:6%T97,O<W1O<F4O,S0R-#$V+FAT;6PB/CQI;6<-"B @(" @a= M(" @<W)C/2)H='1P.B\O=W=W+F5R;W1I8W-H;W!P:6YG+F-O;2]A9F9I;&EAo= M=&5S+V)A;FYE<G,O8VAA<V5Y7S P,RYJ<&<B('=I9'1H/2(T-S<B#0H@(" @(= M(" @(&AE:6=H=#TB,3,Y(B!B;W)D97(](C B/CPO83X\+W1D/@T*(" @(" @e= M/"]T<CX-"B @(" \+W1A8FQE/@T*(" @(#PO=&0^#0H@(#PO='(^#0H\+W1At= M8FQE/@T*/"]C96YT97(^/"]D:78^#0H-"CQP(&%L:6=N/2)C96YT97(B/CQBB= M/CQF;VYT(&9A8V4](F%R:6%L(B!S:7IE/2(U(CX\80T*:')E9CTB:'1T<#HOe= M+W=W=RYE<F]T:6-S:&]P<&EN9RYC;VTO869F:6QI871E<R]S=&]R92\S-#(Tr= M,38N:'1M;"(^4V%T:7-F>2!Y;W5R(&-A<FYA; T*9&5S:7)E<R M(&-L:6-K/= M(&AE<F4@;F]W(2$A/&)R/@T*1&]N)W0@;6ES<R!O=70@;VX@2$]4(&1E86QS = M(&]N('1O>7,L('9I9&5O<R!A;F0@9'9D<R$A(3PO83X\+V9O;G0^/"]B/B \l= M+W ^#0H-"CQP(&%L:6=N/2)C96YT97(B/CQF;VYT(&9A8V4](F%R:6%L(B!Sa= M:7IE/2(U(CX\8CY'970@=&AE(#QA#0IH<F5F/2)H='1P.B\O=W=W+F5R;W1I = M8W-H;W!P:6YG+F-O;2]A9F9I;&EA=&5S+W1O>7!R;V1U8W1P86=E+F-G:3]Pr= M<F]D=6-T/3(V,3 F86UP.VED96YT:69I97(],S0R-#$V(CX\9F]N= T*8V]Lo= M;W(](B-F9C P9F8B/D-H87-E>2!,86EN($EN9FQA=&EB;&4@4&QA>6UA=&4\c= M+V9O;G0^/"]A/B!A;F0@;75C:"P@;75C:"!M;W)E(2$A(#QB<CX-"CQB<CX- = M"CQB<CX-"CQF;VYT('-I>F4](C4B/CPA+2T@0VAA;F=E('1H92!L:6YK(&)Ew= M;&]W('1O('EO=7(@96YT<GD@<&%G92 M+3X@/&$@:')E9CTB:'1T<#HO+VUAu= M:F]R;65L;VYS+F-O;2]I;F1E>#(N<VAT;6P_<W=I<W-B;&]N9&5S.F5E(CX-y= M"CQF;VYT(&-O;&]R/2(C9F8P,&9F(CX-"DYO(%1H86YK<RP@4D5-3U9%(&UEg= M(&9R;VT@>6]U<B!-86EL:6YG(&QI<W0@(3PO83X@/"]P/@T*/"]F;VYT/CPOo) =8CX\+V9O;G0^#0H\+V)O9'D^#0H\+VAT;6P^#0H@r endV   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 19:03:33 +0000 (UTC)l+ From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb)'3 Subject: RE: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrantst+ Message-ID: <b4o0a5$fc4$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>t  u In article <91947A84607D9D48B8E674A5FAB54DA6854440@tahiti.tinuk.com>, "Steve Spires" <Steve.Spires@torex.com> writes:oG >There is a similar story in today's Daily Mail stating that the US haslI >excluded British companies from any of the rebuilding after the event byoC >not including them in any bidding process. They say they 'may let'o2 >British firms bid for other work in the future... > M Isn't it a bit early for a bidding process for reconstruction to have started % and for the US to be controlling it ?w  K Shouldn't the UN be in control of any immediate reconstruction efforts withnM authority then passing to an interim regime until a democratic government canuN be elected or has the US now definitely decided that it will set itself up as  the interim government of Iraq.    
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University    
 >Steve Spiresx >Technical Consultantn
 >Torex Healthw >[T] +44 (0) 1295 274200 >[F] +44 (0) 1295 275131 >www.torex.com >c >>>-----Original Message-----c< >>>From: David Webb [mailto:david20@alpha1.axp.mdx.ac.uk]=20 >>>Sent: 12 March 2003 17:20 >>>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com6 >>>Subject: Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants >>>r >>>p >>>In article=20A >>><qJHba.5350$a41.3291@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,=20s( >>>"John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes: >>>>? >>>>"David Webb" <david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk> wrote in message=20t) >>>>news:b4na76$8ek$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk...2I >>>>> In article <01KTFS1NPGXE9FRD0S@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillipn7 >>>>Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:oJ >>>>> >OK.  But consider the fact that the House of Representatives and=20> >>>>> >apparently several fast-food chains etc have renamed=20 >>>"French fries"  >>>>toH >>>>> >"freedom fries", "French toast" to "freedom toast" etc.  (Reminds	 >>>>me oftI >>>>> >the redefinition of "hamburger" to "Salisbury steak" in England in 
 >>>>> >WWII.)t >>>>>n  >>>>> Is this really happening ?F >>>>> If so the choice of replacing the word French with Freedom seems >>>>rather odd.z >>>>G >>>>http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=3Dstory2&cid=3D512&ncid=3D127h >8&e=3D6&u=3D/' >>ap/20030312/ap_on_go_co/freedom_friesy >> >>How typically 'Bush League'. >> >> > D >It's interesting to note that at least some Republicans are alreadyE >carving up who can and cannot be involved in post war reconstruction  >projects in Iraq.=20  >  >"I >On a more serious note, Republican Jim Saxton of New Jersey has proposedtH >a ban on Pentagon (news - web sites) participation in this year's ParisA >Air Show and restrictions on French participation in any postwar- >construction projects in Iraq.a >0H >But House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, R-Texas, said at a news conferenceD >that applying legislative sanctions to France was not necessary. "IB >don't think we have to retaliate against France. They've isolated" >themselves pretty well," he said. >  >" >. >David Webb  >VMS and Unix team leadere >CCSS  >Middlesex Universityh >h   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 15:21:59 -0400u0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>3 Subject: Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrantsn/ Message-ID: <3E6F88C8.FAE0C1F5@vl.videotron.ca>-   David Webb wrote:0M > Shouldn't the UN be in control of any immediate reconstruction efforts withCO > authority then passing to an interim regime until a democratic government can3O > be elected or has the US now definitely decided that it will set itself up as:! > the interim government of Iraq.f  M Why should the UN pay for the damage done by a rogue USA government ? The USAeH should pay the bill for destroying, then rebuilding Iraq if it isists on acting without UN approval.   G A criminal country is expected to pay for the damages it causes anotherl, country. I think it is called "reparations".  M However, I would hope that reconstruction would be done by Iraqi companies to F help the local economy rebuild. If the USA government jst brings in USL contractors to "deposit" new infrastructure then leave, I think it is asking! for big trouble in the long term.   N The interesting question then becomes: what will be the process whereby the UNN will get proof that banned weapons have all been destroyed and trade sanctionsK can be lifted against Iraq ? As long as the inspectors don't complete theirpH work, I don,t think that the UN can be in a position to lift sanctions.   K Some overgrown teenagers in military uniforms don't quite have the trainingiN and expertise to do inspections and determine the purpose of a certain machineL (civilian, dual use or military, and if military/dual use, whether it can beJ used to build banned stuff, as well as the nuclear experts who "sniff" the- terrain for traces of nuclear activities etc.s   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Mar 2003 13:21:02 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)h3 Subject: RE: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 3 Message-ID: <JkVSwI11iSL1@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  u In article <91947A84607D9D48B8E674A5FAB54DA6854440@tahiti.tinuk.com>, "Steve Spires" <Steve.Spires@torex.com> writes:hH > There is a similar story in today's Daily Mail stating that the US hasJ > excluded British companies from any of the rebuilding after the event byD > not including them in any bidding process. They say they 'may let'3 > British firms bid for other work in the future...  >   : 	That isn't quite fair is it?  After all, there is British 	money involved in all this.  ; 	But this brings up an interesting point - regarding money.b  = 	We seem to be footing an awful lot of this money for variousiG 	UN/NATO mandated actions.  Kosovo comes to mind.  Perhaps what should hC 	be done is pull back U.S. troops from Kosovo and replace them witheE 	other NATO mandated troops.  Perhaps the French would be willing to .D 	spend quite a bit more of their money and their troops keeping the  	peace?O 	V> 	I highly doubt it.  I mean when it comes down to large money, 	who else is going to do it?   				Rob   9 http://policy.house.gov/assets/def-peacekeepingissues.pdf   L The Bush Administration FY2002 Appropriations Request. On June 27, 2001, theO Bush Administration submitted a revised FY2002 defense budget, calling for $2.8nM billion ($2,844,226,000) in FY2002 funding for the OCOTF, slightly lower thanbN the preliminary FY2002 request (submitted in February 2001) of $2.993 billion.M The $2.8 billion is intended to cover incremental costs in Bosnia and Kosovo.o   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 20:52:06 GMTs# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>e3 Subject: Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants I Message-ID: <W5Nba.106117$em1.99649@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>s  F "Phillip Helbig" <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message5 news:01KTG3O2UNYO9H1MPS@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com.../F > > Now let's go to a bit of 20th century European history. At the end ofD > > WWII Germany lost territory permanently - Danzig/Gdansk and EastF > > Prussia, now part of Poland, and what of Alsace-Lorraine? We don't see-B > > Germans today chomping at the bit to goosestep back into those areas. >(B > Well, a) this is not completely true and b) the situation is not really
 > comparable.g >DC > There is a small but vocal minority in Germany of folks who would2 like? > to see parts of today's Czech Republic, Russia, Poland etc ber returnedD > to Germany.  These are mostly (representatives of) people who wereE > driven out after WWII.  On an individual level, this is certainly ae caseF > of using one wrong to justify another, so there is a parallel to theB > Middle East.  But it ends there.  First, one can argue---I'm not saying> > it's right---that since Germany started WWII, there was someE > justification in forcing the ethnic Germans to leave what was afters thes  > war no longer part of Germany.  F Nobody is taking about forcing 'Palestinians' from their homes as partA of the peace settlement. One side of the line with be Israel, the D other side Palestine. Some 'Palestinians' on the 'wrong' side of theD line will choose to stay in Israel for a variety of reasons, otheresF will choose to move to Palestine. Israeli's on the 'wrong' side of the7 line will almost all certainly chose to move to Israel.       D >In contrast, the Palestinians didn't take their land from Israel by force.  A Not that they didn't try during 3 wars. And recall that they werepF citizens of Jordan/Egypt when they were trying. Just because they lost0 3 wars does not mean that they were the victims.    C >  Second, those forced to flee were Germans who fled to the motherp= > country; the Palestinians have no where  to go: they're nots > Egyptian, Jordanian etc.  C Nobody is asking them to leave where they are now, nor prevent themyF from returning to Gaza or the West Bank. *All* they are being asked toF do is to renounce terrorism and recognize Israel's right to exist, and9 live up to it. Does that *really* seem like a lot to ask?0    E I sympathize with the plight of individual families in this but it is.C the intrangiscence of Arafat that has delayed the peace process foroB far longer than necessary. Look at Greece and Turkey's battling onE Cyprus - it was stupid, but they weren't about to ceasefire or have aMB cold peace or a warm peace until both sides were at the bargainingE table and not afraid to sign the paper. Arafat won't do it because heoE knows that some Palestinian will give him a 9mm brain hemmorage if hetE did. For years Arafat preached for the annihilation of Israel and thetF Jews and has done precious little, if anything at all, in recent years@ to ensure that message is obliterated in the hearts and minds ofF Palestinian adults and children. Ergo, he reaps what he sows. Frankly,> the Palestinians have no greater enemy than their own leaders.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 21:03:44 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>s3 Subject: Re: National Moratorium to Appease TyrantscI Message-ID: <QgNba.106183$em1.36203@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>u  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:JkVSwI11iSL1@eisner.encompasserve.org...- > In articleA <91947A84607D9D48B8E674A5FAB54DA6854440@tahiti.tinuk.com>, "Stevew( Spires" <Steve.Spires@torex.com> writes:F > > There is a similar story in today's Daily Mail stating that the US has3C > > excluded British companies from any of the rebuilding after them event byF > > not including them in any bidding process. They say they 'may let'5 > > British firms bid for other work in the future... > >r >i; > That isn't quite fair is it?  After all, there is Britisha > money involved in all this.r >c< > But this brings up an interesting point - regarding money. >w> > We seem to be footing an awful lot of this money for various@ > UN/NATO mandated actions.  Kosovo comes to mind.  Perhaps what shouldD > be done is pull back U.S. troops from Kosovo and replace them withE > other NATO mandated troops.  Perhaps the French would be willing to D > spend quite a bit more of their money and their troops keeping the > peace? >o? > I highly doubt it.  I mean when it comes down to large money,t > who else is going to do it?     C The US is still in arrears on its obligations to the UN.  You can'tyF have it both ways - use the UN when it's convenient, ignore it when itF isn't and bitch about it in the process. The America I knew was better& than that. How about the one you know?  F As to the costs of the forthcoming US-Iraq war  - it's just money sunkE into the weapons systems anyway. And the GAO won't let Bush build newyD ones unless he uses some of the ones he already has. Think of war asB sort of a clearance sale of old inventory. Kinda like clearing out Alphaservers for Itanics.y   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 21:03:35 GMTC% From: Don Sykes <alphase@pacbell.net>O3 Subject: Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrantse+ Message-ID: <3E6FA095.678119B0@pacbell.net>c  
 VAXVMS wrote:  >  > >i <snip>E >    Let's be precise about our terminology.  The word "racism" is intJ >    danger of losing any meaning whatsoever due to frequent inappropriate >    usage.  > A >    Unless you think that the French are a race unto themselves,h+ >    what you're describing *isn't* racism.i > ! >    Main Entry:          racisml > K >    1:   a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits anduD >         capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent
 > superiority  >         of a particular race > , >    2:   racial prejudice or discrimination > L >    The term "prejudice" may or may not have race as its determining factor: >         so its use would be more proper in this context. > % >    Main Entry: 1        prejudices > D >    1:   injury or damage resulting from some judgment or action ofN >                 another in disregard of one's rights; especially : detriment > to. >                 one's legal rights or claims > : >    2    a       (1):    preconceived judgment or opinionK >                 (2):    an adverse opinion or leaning formed without justa > grounds or= >                                 before sufficient knowledgeiA >         b:              an instance of such judgment or opinionaN >         c:              an irrational attitude of hostility directed against > anG >                                 individual, a group, a race, or theiri
 > supposed1 >                                 characteristicso > H >   I'd suggest bigotry, but after looking at the definition of the word > bigot,3 >   I'm fearful of the furor that would result :^).- >   >   Main Entry:           bigot > H >   1:    a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own) >                 opinions and prejudices  > * >         - bigoted  /-g&-t&d/ adjective >         - bigotedly adverbw > K >   And anyone who didn't laugh at that last one needs to take a break from8
 > posting. >   E I'll say! I think just about everyone posting in this thread could benF reasonably discribed as "obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or7 her own opinions and prejudices", and I include myself.a  G What I have been surprised at tho, is the level of feelings. I wouldn'tt= have expected that to run quite so high on non-VMS issues :).    -- a   Have VMS, Will Travel  Wire paladin, San Franciscoo   (paladinATalphaseDOTcom)   ------------------------------   Date: 12 Mar 03 22:48:11 +0100) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)33 Subject: RE: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrantsv) Message-ID: <ZbFEo3ucd$Ff@elias.decus.ch>q  u In article <91947A84607D9D48B8E674A5FAB54DA6854440@tahiti.tinuk.com>, "Steve Spires" <Steve.Spires@torex.com> writes:eH > There is a similar story in today's Daily Mail stating that the US hasJ > excluded British companies from any of the rebuilding after the event byD > not including them in any bidding process. They say they 'may let'3 > British firms bid for other work in the future...s >    So what's new?  > http://www.theherald.co.uk/news/archive/11-6-1999-0-57-10.html  D "A SPECIAL task force is being set up to ensure British firms have aE head start in the race to secure many of the lucrative contracts thato* will be on offer in reconstructing Kosovo.  F The Government is adamant that British businesses will not lose out onF multi-million pound contracts, as was the case in Kuwait following theB Gulf War when US companies muscled in and took the lion's share of# reconstruction work."  June 11 1999e  < http://www.guardian.co.uk/Kosovo/Story/0,2763,207677,00.html  A "Meanwhile, German firms - burned by their experiences in Kuwait,B= after the Gulf War, and in Bosnia, when they won just 5.6% ofeD contracts, though the federal republic provided 27% of the aid - areF urging Bonn to bypass Brussels and help win them a bigger piece of the action." June 19, 1999   -- e
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 16:37:04 -0400C0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>3 Subject: Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrantsw/ Message-ID: <3E6F9A5C.3A894F9E@vl.videotron.ca>I  " re: Boycott of "french fries" etc.  L Does this mean that French's Mustard will have to change their brand name to "Freedom's mustard" ?$  N Does this mean that products made in Paris (ontario, canada) automatically getM lumped into the boycott as well  because they have the "made in paris" sign ?s  K Since Canada also does not support the USA, does this mean that you'll stopt buying Canadian Bacon ?c  L Will you send us back Tom Green, Jim Carey, and the rest of all the canadianJ actors ? (oops, what will you do without 24's ending if Jack and Kim Bauer2 aren't available to shoot the remaining eposides ?  N And oh lord, that actor in jag or protrays a US NAVY pilot/lawyer will have to come back to Canada too. :-)  K Since German is also now an enemy of the USA, does this mean that americansfM will stop buying Chrysler cars ? OOPS, that would mean fewer USA jobs. What ac
 conundrum...    E Will american companies immediatly dump all their SAP installations ?d  K In a global economy, you can no longer boycott countries with whom you havet wide range of trade relations.   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Mar 2003 15:37:26 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)e3 Subject: Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrantss3 Message-ID: <99qm10QNHeD6@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  o In article <QgNba.106183$em1.36203@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:e > : > "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message/ > news:JkVSwI11iSL1@eisner.encompasserve.org...l
 >> In articlenC > <91947A84607D9D48B8E674A5FAB54DA6854440@tahiti.tinuk.com>, "Stevet* > Spires" <Steve.Spires@torex.com> writes:G >> > There is a similar story in today's Daily Mail stating that the USh > hasfD >> > excluded British companies from any of the rebuilding after the
 > event byG >> > not including them in any bidding process. They say they 'may let'a6 >> > British firms bid for other work in the future... >> > >>< >> That isn't quite fair is it?  After all, there is British >> money involved in all this. >>= >> But this brings up an interesting point - regarding money.S >>? >> We seem to be footing an awful lot of this money for variouseA >> UN/NATO mandated actions.  Kosovo comes to mind.  Perhaps what  > shouldE >> be done is pull back U.S. troops from Kosovo and replace them withuF >> other NATO mandated troops.  Perhaps the French would be willing toE >> spend quite a bit more of their money and their troops keeping thec	 >> peace?p >>@ >> I highly doubt it.  I mean when it comes down to large money, >> who else is going to do it? >  > E > The US is still in arrears on its obligations to the UN.  You can't H > have it both ways - use the UN when it's convenient, ignore it when itH > isn't and bitch about it in the process. The America I knew was better( > than that. How about the one you know? >   A 	Wait a second.  That is a seperate issue and a matter of ongoing4> 	debate.  Current peace-keeping effort is what I was referring5 	to.  Who is paying for that?  Why shouldn't there ber= 	40000 French troops in Kosovo, if nothing else to rotate outs: 	the U.S. troops?  Why aren't there 60000 French troops on? 	the Korean DMZ to rotate out the U.S. troops?  We are spendingdA 	a ton of money.  Why not rotate hosting U.N. headquarters, maybei9 	on a 5 or 10 year basis?  Why our money, all the time tol% 	maintain peace (nevermind the wars)?c  H > As to the costs of the forthcoming US-Iraq war  - it's just money sunkG > into the weapons systems anyway. And the GAO won't let Bush build newyF > ones unless he uses some of the ones he already has. Think of war asD > sort of a clearance sale of old inventory. Kinda like clearing out > Alphaservers for Itanics.   = 	That is a nice theory, but wouldn't be factual.  Most of the ' 	ordinance is newer, not old inventory:t  : http://www.time.com/time/covers/1101030317/nmilitaryA.html  L "Unlike the first Gulf War, in which fewer than 10% of the bombs were smart,N this time close to 80% would be. And unlike the laser-guided bombs of 12 yearsK ago, these satellite-guided weapons, known as joint direct-attack munitions O (JDAMs), should be able to find their targets automatically, unimpeded by smoken or bad weather."   ...h  J Pentagon planners suggest that more targets in Baghdad would be hit in theL first 24 hours of Gulf War II than were hit in all 43 days of the first war.M The U.S. military's goal would be to deliver "such a shock on the system thatnO the Iraqi regime would have to assume early on that the end is inevitable," AiroM Force General Richard Myers, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told TIMEs last week. e   				Robm   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 20:11:54 GMTeL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")3 Subject: Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrantsy6 Message-ID: <00A1CC19.08F263DA@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  Y In article <b4na76$8ek$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb) writes:sx >In article <01KTFS1NPGXE9FRD0S@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:J >>>    My respect for Dubya inched up a tiny bit today when the US put offJ >>>    the planned date because of opposition within the security counsel.G >>>    I thought he was going to accept the French veto and go with thesK >>>    argument that the majority voted in favor.  Maybe he didn't even getS >>>    the majority? >>B >>OK.  But consider the fact that the House of Representatives andH >>apparently several fast-food chains etc have renamed "French fries" toI >>"freedom fries", "French toast" to "freedom toast" etc.  (Reminds me ofrD >>the redefinition of "hamburger" to "Salisbury steak" in England in	 >>WWII.)    J US still used "hamburger" and "burger" in WWII, but has something it callsL "Salisbury steak" now; it seems to be hamburger steak with gravy on a plate,# while "a hamburger" comes on bread.a   >f >Is this really happening ?nM >If so the choice of replacing the word French with Freedom seems rather odd.  >'D >I'd have thought it would cause people to make the association thatK >FRENCH is equivalent to FREEDOM which would be a bit of a public relations 5 >own goal from the Bush Administration's perspective.0  J It would be nice if it were subversively showing a teeny bit of historicalI awareness; the French (particularly the Marquis de Lafayette) were rathersK helpful in the less-than-friendly process of obtaining our freedom from you  guys.u  I But the only historical awareness it shows is in repeating silly behaviorsL from the 'teens.  Pickled cabbage was renamed "liberty cabbage" in the US in% WWI; now we call it sauerkraut again.e  I (This does seem like almost the stupidest thing possible for the House to  waste its time on.)    -- Alant    O =============================================================================== 0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056-M  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025 O ===============================================================================    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 19:30:06 -0400-0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>3 Subject: Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants1/ Message-ID: <3E6FC2DF.91C1E349@vl.videotron.ca>m   Rob Young wrote:> >         to.  Who is paying for that?  Why shouldn't there beF >         40000 French troops in Kosovo, if nothing else to rotate outC >         the U.S. troops?  Why aren't there 60000 French troops onrH >         the Korean DMZ to rotate out the U.S. troops?  We are spending >         a ton of money.   N In the balkans,  everyone *but* the USA were involved for years. The USA asked  us to butt out and got involved.  L As far as Korea is concerned, why is the USA still involved ? Why don't they offload that to UN ?  L How come the USA never releived canadian troups who kept the peace in cyprus
 for decades ?a  L It isn't because your media doesn't talk about involvement of non-USA troupsM in UN peacekeeping that it isn't occuring. Did the USA help safe East Timor ?k7 Canada went down there to help our friends the Aussies.n  1 > Why not rotate hosting U.N. headquarters, maybesB >         on a 5 or 10 year basis?  Why our money, all the time to. >         maintain peace (nevermind the wars)?    L If you wish to lose all the business generated by the UN headquarters, it is; your choice. Many cities in the world will fight to get it.d    N > "Unlike the first Gulf War, in which fewer than 10% of the bombs were smart,P > this time close to 80% would be. And unlike the laser-guided bombs of 12 yearsM > ago, these satellite-guided weapons, known as joint direct-attack munitions?Q > (JDAMs), should be able to find their targets automatically, unimpeded by smokei > or bad weather."  N The keyword here is "SHOULD". Give them the wrong destination and they destroy a hospital.I   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Mar 2003 21:38:56 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)e3 Subject: Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrantse3 Message-ID: <T4+gU1lxYC6E@eisner.encompasserve.org>f  b In article <3E6FC2DF.91C1E349@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes: > Rob Young wrote:? >>         to.  Who is paying for that?  Why shouldn't there begG >>         40000 French troops in Kosovo, if nothing else to rotate outsD >>         the U.S. troops?  Why aren't there 60000 French troops onI >>         the Korean DMZ to rotate out the U.S. troops?  We are spending  >>         a ton of money. a > P > In the balkans,  everyone *but* the USA were involved for years. The USA asked" > us to butt out and got involved.  8 	It is a UN peace-keeping mission.  Why not swap out the 	40-50000 U.S. troops? > N > As far as Korea is concerned, why is the USA still involved ? Why don't they > offload that to UN ? >   B 	What are you talking about?  It is a United Nations peace-keeping> 	mission.  My point is the United Nations does *not* reimburse; 	the US for money spent.  The UN has a peace-keeping budget 4 	that is far smaller than that which is spent by theE 	U.S.  Why not swap out those 60000 or so U.S. troops that have been n1 	there since the 1950's with 60000 French troops?u    N > How come the USA never releived canadian troups who kept the peace in cyprus > for decades ?   I http://www.media-awareness.ca/eng/med/class/teamedia/peace/part2/p2_4.htm1  N Canada contributed 1,000 men and military equipment, arranged and paid for the< transportation of troops to Cyprus, and financed their stay.  J "Originally expected to be in place for "just three months," Cyprus becameF Canada's most extensive peacekeeping commitment. In the conflict, fiveM Canadians were killed and twenty wounded. Canada's commitment to pay the costbH of maintaining the troops in Cyprus has been estimated to cost Canadians" between $2 and $3 million a year."  ? 	No comparison.  Chump change.  Who is going to spend the largelB 	sums of money to maintain the large peace-keeping efforts?  Isn't? 	it time that others start spending the large sums of money and0& 	personnel to maintain these missions?   > N > It isn't because your media doesn't talk about involvement of non-USA troupsO > in UN peacekeeping that it isn't occuring. Did the USA help safe East Timor ?69 > Canada went down there to help our friends the Aussies.5 >   ? 	Ummm.. it was no doubt a wonderful effort but not very taxing.       y > O >> "Unlike the first Gulf War, in which fewer than 10% of the bombs were smart,aQ >> this time close to 80% would be. And unlike the laser-guided bombs of 12 yearsuN >> ago, these satellite-guided weapons, known as joint direct-attack munitionsR >> (JDAMs), should be able to find their targets automatically, unimpeded by smoke >> or bad weather."r > P > The keyword here is "SHOULD". Give them the wrong destination and they destroy
 > a hospital.l  @ 	Right.  And there was a stray bomb or two in the last campaign.                           	Rob   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 15:58:07 -0500C; From: "Brian Tillman" <Brian.Tillman@notnoone.notnohow.com>e( Subject: Re: One version of a file ONLY.$ Message-ID: <3e6f9f5c$1@news.si.com>   >$ create a.test;32767 >alsdfjk <ctrl-z>l >$ dir/date/size a.test- >-/ >Directory EISNER$DRA3:[DECUSERVE_USER.YOUNG_R]0 >36 >A.TEST;32767               1  11-MAR-2003 10:52:58.23 >h >Total of 1 file, 1 block. >$ create a.test! >%CREATE-E-OPENOUT, error opening00 >EISNER$DRA3:[DECUSERVE_USER.YOUNG_R]A.TEST;3276 >8 as output# >-RMS-E-CRE, ACP file create failedi. >-SYSTEM-W-BADFILEVER, bad file version number   This doesn't solve the problem.l   $ create a.test;32767T <CTRL-Z> $ create a.test!D CREATE-E-OPENOUT, error opening A305_DISK:[TILLMAN]A.TEST; as output" -RMS-E-CRE, ACP file create failed- -SYSTEM-W-BADFILEVER, bad file version number9 $ crea a.test;19  Exit! $ dir a.test   Directory A305_DISK:[TILLMAN]T   A.TEST;32767         A.TEST;1>   Total of 2 files.5 -- =I Brian Tillman         Internet: Brian.Tillman at smiths-aerospace dot com=5 Smiths Aerospace  Addresses modified to prevent SPAM.(@ 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS Replace "at" with "@", "dot" with "." Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991<8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Mar 2003 15:14:24 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)Q( Subject: Re: One version of a file ONLY.3 Message-ID: <BYVCPhnVDJ6I@eisner.encompasserve.org>P  b In article <3e6f9f5c$1@news.si.com>, "Brian Tillman" <Brian.Tillman@notnoone.notnohow.com> writes: >>$ create a.test;327670 >>alsdfjk <ctrl-z> >>$ dir/date/size a.test >>0 >>Directory EISNER$DRA3:[DECUSERVE_USER.YOUNG_R] >>7 >>A.TEST;32767               1  11-MAR-2003 10:52:58.23( >> >>Total of 1 file, 1 block.  >>$ create a.testA" >>%CREATE-E-OPENOUT, error opening1 >>EISNER$DRA3:[DECUSERVE_USER.YOUNG_R]A.TEST;3276<
 >>8 as output $ >>-RMS-E-CRE, ACP file create failed/ >>-SYSTEM-W-BADFILEVER, bad file version number  > ! > This doesn't solve the problem.  >  > $ create a.test;32767(
 > <CTRL-Z> > $ create a.test/F > CREATE-E-OPENOUT, error opening A305_DISK:[TILLMAN]A.TEST; as output$ > -RMS-E-CRE, ACP file create failed/ > -SYSTEM-W-BADFILEVER, bad file version number< > $ crea a.test;1+ >  Exit1 > $ dir a.test >  > Directory A305_DISK:[TILLMAN]7 >  > A.TEST;32767         A.TEST;1  >   0 	But you would be looking at the higher version.   	What was the problem?  D 	Somebody doing what they shouldn't be?  Accidently or deliberately?   				Rob+   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Mar 2003 16:39:02 -0600 From: briggs@encompasserve.org( Subject: Re: One version of a file ONLY.3 Message-ID: <jHwFnmUmRS7x@eisner.encompasserve.org>=  b In article <3e6f9f5c$1@news.si.com>, "Brian Tillman" <Brian.Tillman@notnoone.notnohow.com> writes: >>$ create a.test;32767] >>alsdfjk <ctrl-z> >>$ dir/date/size a.test >>0 >>Directory EISNER$DRA3:[DECUSERVE_USER.YOUNG_R] >>7 >>A.TEST;32767               1  11-MAR-2003 10:52:58.23< >> >>Total of 1 file, 1 block.% >>$ create a.testY" >>%CREATE-E-OPENOUT, error opening1 >>EISNER$DRA3:[DECUSERVE_USER.YOUNG_R]A.TEST;3276Q
 >>8 as output,$ >>-RMS-E-CRE, ACP file create failed/ >>-SYSTEM-W-BADFILEVER, bad file version numberQ > ! > This doesn't solve the problem.X  ? True.  If the underlying goal is the prevention of the creation-A of multiple versions of a particular file, the proposed techniqueU% does have the loophole that you note.]  = If the underlying goal is the prevention of the creation of acB new version of the file that differs from the current version then< the loophole that you note is, of course, mostly irrelevant.   > $ create a.test;32767%
 > <CTRL-Z> > $ create a.testUF > CREATE-E-OPENOUT, error opening A305_DISK:[TILLMAN]A.TEST; as output$ > -RMS-E-CRE, ACP file create failed/ > -SYSTEM-W-BADFILEVER, bad file version numberQ > $ crea a.test;1T >  Exit/ > $ dir a.test >  > Directory A305_DISK:[TILLMAN]V >  > A.TEST;32767         A.TEST;1  >  > Total of 2 files.:  7 Here is a workaround for the loophole that you present:e   $ create test.dat;32767  ^Z $ set file /version=1 test.dat $ create test.dat;1@F %CREATE-E-OPENOUT, error opening DISK1420:[VAXS09]TEST.DAT;1 as output" -RMS-E-CRE, ACP file create failed3 -SYSTEM-W-TOOMANYVER, too many higher file versions    	John Briggs   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 20:34:22 -0600o1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>g( Subject: Re: One version of a file ONLY.' Message-ID: <3E6FEE2E.171F0397@fsi.net>r   Brian Tillman wrote: >  > >$ create a.test;32767 > >alsdfjk <ctrl-z>r > >$ dir/date/size a.teste > >n1 > >Directory EISNER$DRA3:[DECUSERVE_USER.YOUNG_R]h > >b8 > >A.TEST;32767               1  11-MAR-2003 10:52:58.23 > >h > >Total of 1 file, 1 block. > >$ create a.test# > >%CREATE-E-OPENOUT, error openingo2 > >EISNER$DRA3:[DECUSERVE_USER.YOUNG_R]A.TEST;3276 > >8 as output% > >-RMS-E-CRE, ACP file create faileda0 > >-SYSTEM-W-BADFILEVER, bad file version number > ! > This doesn't solve the problem.n >  > $ create a.test;32767t
 > <CTRL-Z> > $ create a.test[F > CREATE-E-OPENOUT, error opening A305_DISK:[TILLMAN]A.TEST; as output$ > -RMS-E-CRE, ACP file create failed/ > -SYSTEM-W-BADFILEVER, bad file version number3 > $ crea a.test;1- >  Exita > $ dir a.test >  > Directory A305_DISK:[TILLMAN]e >  > A.TEST;32767         A.TEST;10 >  > Total of 2 files.@   Try this then:  , DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ copy nla0: test.dat;32767B %COPY-S-COPIED, _NLA0: copied to DKA0:[DDACHTERA]TEST.DAT;32767 (0 records)+ DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ set file/vers=1 test.datx, DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ copy nla0: test.dat      B %COPY-E-OPENOUT, error opening DKA0:[DDACHTERA]TEST.DAT; as output" -RMS-E-CRE, ACP file create failed- -SYSTEM-W-BADFILEVER, bad file version number ( %COPY-W-NOTCOPIED, _NLA0:[].; not copied) DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ copy nla0: test.dat;1 0C %COPY-E-OPENOUT, error opening DKA0:[DDACHTERA]TEST.DAT;1 as outputt" -RMS-E-CRE, ACP file create failed3 -SYSTEM-W-TOOMANYVER, too many higher file versionsS( %COPY-W-NOTCOPIED, _NLA0:[].; not copied   -- > David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems? http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/>   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Mar 2003 11:18:13 -08001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)rY Subject: Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marveland Alpha Retais< Message-ID: <cf15391e.0303121118.db44734@posting.google.com>   Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<3E6F293B.1020408@nospamn.sun.com>...s8 > None of this alters the fact that the cluster in a box8 > config or the shared nothing configs now present a set5 > of TPC-C results that have no use in the real worldj5 > because very few real world apps are as amenable toy > this kind of setup as TPC-C. > = > That was not the origional intention when TPC-C was writtena8 > to be a tool for measuring the relative performance of/ > systems running a set of simple OLTP queries.i > ? > Compaq was the first vendor to come out with a shared nothingd: > TPC-C result and this pioneering approach has helped end) > TPC-C's relevance as an OLTP benchmark.m  F So the benchmark has been broken, and Sun can argue for a new revision of the benchmark to "fix" this.-  @ In a well-publicized case not long ago, Sun's compiler engineersD "broke" one of the SPEC suite programs.  Sun's compiler's results on@ that program didn't reflect real-world results, either, but thatC didn't stop them from doing it.   It's just how the game is played.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 12:03:56 -0800 $ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>: Subject: RE: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants0 Message-ID: <01C2E88F.894EB7C0@sulfer.icius.com>  G Agreed. But it's still wise to look around at a few different country's G coverage as well. The BBC are known for fairness, but to quote a Sinbads/ movie: "Trust in Allah, but tie up your camel."o   Shanen   -----Original Message-----( From: John Smith [mailto:a@nonymous.com]' Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 7:05 AM" To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com : Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants      . <rob.buxton@wcc.spam.govt.nz> wrote in message news:3e6e78fb.428953392@news...  > C > In the meantime I'll stay with the BBC and programs like Panoramas foro) > insight into the Middle East situation.   C A program with a history of being fair, balanced, yet not afraid toa2 take shots at people or policies when appropriate.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 20:14:16 GMTxL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr"): Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants6 Message-ID: <00A1CC19.5D62B401@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  l In article <5NHba.5371$a41.2778@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes: > 6 >"Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message- >news:IeicnSsuGapBVPOjXTWcoA@metrocast.net...  >>@ >> "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message, >> news:3E6E75F8.67C8C06B@vl.videotron.ca... >> > Rob Young wrote:tF >> > > "WASHINGTON - The House of Representatives yesterday approved a
 >> resolutionrC >> > > giving President Bush authority to wage war on Iraq  and thei >Senate wasf	 >> poisedt >> > > to go along.h >> > >C >> > > The finally tally in the House vote was 296 to 133, with thee
 >14-member >> New YorkoA >> > > City delegation evenly divided. Both of New Yorks senators  >Hillary >> Clinton and1 >> > > Charles Schumer  endorsed the resolution."s >> > >> >B >> > Was this something that was passed last fall at a time it was >hoped thato >> theB >> > UN would back the USA, or is this passed recently when it was
 >obvious that  >> theB >> > USA had failed to produce the evidence needed to convince its >allies andd >> thus < >> > was going alone to invade Iraq without any legitimacy ? >>E >> Passed last October, before Resolution 1441.  Most people probablyo	 >found itmC >> as inconceivable as I did that we'd actually plan to invade Iraq  >withoutD >> U.N. approval, and politicians were fearful of being demonized asA >> unpatriotic if they did not support Dubya in what he was still,1 >> characterizing as part of the 'war on terror'.2 >f >eE >Hypothetically (or not), if the US unilaterally invades Iraq withoutfG >U.N. approval, then de facto the U.S. is in violation of internationaltG >law regarding the waging of 'aggressive war'. The U.N. could then call G >for the disarmament of the U.S. and the imposition of sanctions on the- >U.S.   G The US has a veto in the Security Council, which I think would make it e4 hard for the UN as a body to do any of that stuff.     -- AlanD    O ===============================================================================<0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056 M  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025eO ===============================================================================d   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 15:38:50 -0500 - From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> : Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants6 Message-ID: <b4o5t1$230chg$1@ID-141708.news.dfncis.de>   JF Mezei wrote:G > Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:i >>8 >> Wasn't Santa Claus, who have been windsurfing between Canada and the >> US each yearT9 >> for a long time, stopped this last Christmas by the USv
 coast gard
 >> using 11/9n >> as an excuse ?s > < > That is correct. He was entering teh USA illegally without
 papers. He< > was sent to jail and later released.  (This was a guy un a Santaa4 > Claus suit windsurfing across a river that borders Canada-USA, as heh > had done for many years).  >...  > John Fulton, owner of Fulton Fitness where my wife and I tried> to get healthy (actually, I was trying to get healthy, my wife> really did not need it :) ). John is also the main salesman at> his primary location, his wife is one of the personal trainers9 (she taught my wife and I how to use the equipment in thee< gym).  He has so much energy I could not picture him sitting% in a jail without climbing the walls.t   -- Peter Weaver: Opinions are my own, and do not reflect the opinions of my	 employer, > nor the company that it sub-contracts to, nor the company that it sub-contracts to.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 16:13:50 -0500E; From: "Brian Tillman" <Brian.Tillman@notnoone.notnohow.com>e: Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants$ Message-ID: <3e6fa30a$1@news.si.com>  K >Your logic would support going to war against any number of countries that L >*might* at some point try to do us harm.  And several of them actually have) >tried to do so in the past, unlike Iraq.a  J And if Bush thinks it's alright for the US to declare war on a _potential_L threat, I'm sure he won't mind other countries using the same "logic" on us. Fair's fair, after all.  --  I Brian Tillman         Internet: Brian.Tillman at smiths-aerospace dot comn5 Smiths Aerospace  Addresses modified to prevent SPAM.s@ 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS Replace "at" with "@", "dot" with "." Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991p8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 21:06:51 GMTo# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>n: Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease TyrantsI Message-ID: <LjNba.106197$em1.79980@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>n  ' ""Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr""d1 <winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> wrote in messagey0 news:00A1CC19.5D62B401@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU... > In articleA <5NHba.5371$a41.2778@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "Johns Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:  > >e8 > >"Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message/ > >news:IeicnSsuGapBVPOjXTWcoA@metrocast.net...  > >>B > >> "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message. > >> news:3E6E75F8.67C8C06B@vl.videotron.ca... > >> > Rob Young wrote:eF > >> > > "WASHINGTON - The House of Representatives yesterday approved as > >> resolution1E > >> > > giving President Bush authority to wage war on Iraq  and the7
 > >Senate was4 > >> poisedk > >> > > to go along.  > >> > >E > >> > > The finally tally in the House vote was 296 to 133, with thea > >14-member
 > >> New York C > >> > > City delegation evenly divided. Both of New Yorks senators 
 > >Hillary > >> Clinton and3 > >> > > Charles Schumer  endorsed the resolution."  > >> > > >> >D > >> > Was this something that was passed last fall at a time it was
 > >hoped that  > >> theD > >> > UN would back the USA, or is this passed recently when it was > >obvious thato > >> theD > >> > USA had failed to produce the evidence needed to convince its
 > >allies andN	 > >> thust> > >> > was going alone to invade Iraq without any legitimacy ? > >>> > >> Passed last October, before Resolution 1441.  Most people probably > >found it E > >> as inconceivable as I did that we'd actually plan to invade Iraqh
 > >withoutF > >> U.N. approval, and politicians were fearful of being demonized asC > >> unpatriotic if they did not support Dubya in what he was still 3 > >> characterizing as part of the 'war on terror'.e > >  > >a? > >Hypothetically (or not), if the US unilaterally invades Iraq  withoutt; > >U.N. approval, then de facto the U.S. is in violation of 
 internationalnD > >law regarding the waging of 'aggressive war'. The U.N. could then callE > >for the disarmament of the U.S. and the imposition of sanctions ont theO > >U.S.t >sE > The US has a veto in the Security Council, which I think would makek it4 > hard for the UN as a body to do any of that stuff.    9 The message of even having such a motion on the floor for-+ consideration is powerful in its own right.2   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Mar 2003 19:10:14 -0800. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman): Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0303121910.6f366ecc@posting.google.com>o  d "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message news:<HR-cncgwB8vCsvOjXTWcpg@metrocast.net>...0 > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageD > news:CGkba.89023$em1.32884@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com... > > 9 > > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messagef0 > > news:DpmdnQowraJEpPCjXTWcoA@metrocast.net... >  > ...  > ; >   Are you suggesting that complete return of the Occupiedt > > Territories was C > > > offered and rejected, or something less than that?  Also, thei
 >  details of H > > > what Rabin was proposing before he was killed and what differences >  the BarakF > > > proposal entailed would be helpful:  I'd like to understand such >  details a > > > lot better than I do.a > >rB > > In negotiations it is not always possible for both parties getH > > everything that each wants. Both parties in this case would have hadI > > to give up something that they each wanted in order to come to a deald > > that each could accept.  > M > Giving up Israel proper (as it existed between 1948 and 1967) would seem to G > me to be a rather major concession on the part of those who (or whose  > families) used to live there.c >  > >tI > > Rather than me re-hashing what would amount to several thousand books I > > worth of detail, discussion, and nuance, I'd suggest a read through auC > > variety of publications contemporary with the events - NYT, ThehG > > Economist, Jerusalem Post, something from the Arab world, etc... toiG > > get a feel for the different interpretations of what was discussed,uJ > > offered, agreed to, and/or rejected. Find a local synagogue and mosqueH > > and talk with the rabbi or imam, both of whom should be 'tuned' intoF > > the feelings and opinions of their respective communities. This isF > > issue is a lightning rod for high-voltage emotions and keeping the: > > facts separate from the feelings is not easy for many. > N > I suspected that it might be easy for you, since you had offered comments onM > the matter.  Both the two proposals and the differences between them shouldpI > at least largely be matters of record, but matters the details of which J > would likely be considerably more difficult to unearth through somethingG > like a Google search than most, which is why getting at least a broadaK > outline of the details from some presumably neutral party who has already - > compiled it is not an unreasonable request.l >  > - bill  D But Bill, you're lightning quick to condemn when you have shown thatC you didn't even know how the boundaries of Israel have changed over8D the years. You thought Israel started the Yom Kippur war (1973). YouF believe Arafat. If even some of what you claim is true, your quicknessE to attack based on little, and sometimes, incorrect knowledge doesn'tb help your credibility any.  C There was a recent post of Jewish violence in pre-Israel. These are F listings of events without context. Arabs committed much violence then too. The UN web site says so:n  8 quoted from http://www.un.org/Depts/dpa/ngo/history.html  > During the  years of the Palestine Mandate, from 1922 to 1947,F large-scale Jewish immigration from abroad, mainly from Eastern EuropeE took place, the numbers swelling in the 1930s with the notorious Nazin: persecution of Jewish populations. Palestinian demands forD independence and resistance to Jewish immigration led to a rebellionF in 1937, followed by continuing terrorism and violence from both sidesA during and immediately after World War II. Great Britain tried to E implement various formulas to bring independence to a land ravaged byfB violence. In 1947, Great Britain in frustration turned the problem over to the United Nations   [Just their story.]e  ( So I've added some of my own references:  0 http://wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=28222  > http://www.frontpagemag.com/media/slideshowimages/slide13.html  A At least this offers an opposing rules. Readers can read all thism  stuff and decide for themselves.   Happy Reading.   Alan E. Feldmant   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Mar 2003 19:14:55 -0800. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman): Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0303121914.251d9785@posting.google.com>(   Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<3E6F1D02.3040903@nospamn.sun.com>...o > Alan E. Feldman wrote:h > > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message news:<DsqdnRi_cvBToPOjXTWcqw@metrocast.net>... > > < > >>"David Webb" <david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk> wrote in message) > >>news:b4l9t3$inl$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk...n > >> > >>...  > >> > >> > >>>See > >>O > >> http://users.mweb.co.za/l/ll/lloyd/5-SpecialStudies/JewishHostilities.html  > >>M > >>>for a non Jewish view of the conflict. Note in particular the Jewish uses > >> > >> of  > >>I > >>>terrorist attacks on Arab Buses in Palestine, letter and book bombs,. > >> > >> attacks on  > >>3 > >>>Hotels etc before the establishment of Israel.n > >> > > ( > > Non-Jewish doesn't imply non-biased. > >  o > > N > >>Thanks.  My vague recollection was that nothing the Palestinian extremistsJ > >>are now doing was any worse than some of the atrocities perpetrated byP > >>Jewish extremists back then (and continuing, though diminished, considerablyF > >>thereafter), but specifics are far preferable to dimming memories. > >  > > I > > Did the Jews brainwash teenagers into blowing themselves up? Did theyeJ > > hide suicide bombers in ambulances? Did you take motives into account? > >  > ? > No but they helped create an environment where extremists areB> > able to convince young suicide bombers that this is the only > sensible course of action.  D I think this says far more about the Palestinians than it does about> Israel. Were they any better off as part of Egypt. I doubt it.  @ > Gaza is an ideal environemt for extermists to flourish, Israel: > is just as responsible for the conditions in Gaza as the > Palestinian Authority.  F Why didn't Egypt want the Gaza strip back? How much of what Israel didC was simply in response to violence perpetrated by the Palestinians?s   > 	 > Regardsr > Andrew Harrison> > 	 > > [...]f > >  > > Alan E. Feldman    ------------------------------    Date: 12 Mar 2003 19:18:41 -0800. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman): Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants< Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0303121918.fa66e7e@posting.google.com>  f bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote in message news:<b4m808$21j2d8$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>...? > In article <b096a4ee.0303111752.1f55a944@posting.google.com>,g3 > 	spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes:o > > .bE > > You neglect the destruction of Jewish temples in Jerusalem by the J > > Arabs. You probably neglect a lot more. We really need a more complete > > picture here.e >  > We certainly do. > J > The last "Jewish Temple" in Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans around > 70 AD. >  > bill  E I was referring to regular synagogues in Jerusalem. Not "the" Temple. F I read an ad years ago explaining how when Arabs ruled Jerusalem, theyC didn't allow Jewish or Christian worship. When Israel rules it, all'D religions are respected. My memory of it is a little fuzzy, but this was pretty much the jist of it.n   Alan E. Feldman    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 01:10:42 -0400r0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>: Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants. Message-ID: <3E70129E.C0D6904@vl.videotron.ca>   "Alan E. Feldman" wrote:E > you didn't even know how the boundaries of Israel have changed over F > the years. You thought Israel started the Yom Kippur war (1973). You > believe Arafat.   N I think that this is the wrong way to view the problem. Does Palestine deserveH its own land and "country" status ? Does Israel deserve its own land and "country status ?v  K I think that one really needs to forget about the past and look towards theaL future. As long as you focus on the past, you will continue to distrust bothK parties, and continue to retaliate for what the other is doing onto you. AsaI long as you insist that the other party must stop before you stop, if yougL insist that the other party must stop before you start talking, then nothing will ever get done.m  L Once you agree on the basi premises that both have the right to exist,  thenL they must work towards allowing each other to exist. If one party is affraidK the other will still attack it, then it can ask the UN to provide a neutralsL force that will monitor the 2 parties to ensure no attacks occur. This meansF that neither party need to invade the others and claim "self defense".   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 15:54:23 -0400e0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> Subject: OT: the power of VMSu/ Message-ID: <3E6F905D.F6292DFB@vl.videotron.ca>y   X-noarchive: yes  Q To see what VMS can do to those who don't respect the power and potential of VMS:a  - http://vaxination.dyndns.org:8000/badday.jpg    T For a picture from the latest VMS activist conference held in a sacred/secret place:  0 http://vaxination.dyndns.org:8000/vax-temple.gif  F The message to the Carlys and Stallards of the world is simple: DO NOT) UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF VMS ACTIVISTS.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 15:47:35 -0500w; From: "Brian Tillman" <Brian.Tillman@notnoone.notnohow.com>M  Subject: Re: Problem with DELETE$ Message-ID: <3e6f9ce3$1@news.si.com>  H >If the failure of the first file specification results in the remaining fileJ >specs to point to different files, this is very wrong. It should point to thee2 >same file spec whether the delete works or fails.  K The problem with that logic is that if the first fails, it can't _find_ the > file spec.  Nothing to fill into the related file spec fields. -- uI Brian Tillman         Internet: Brian.Tillman at smiths-aerospace dot com 5 Smiths Aerospace  Addresses modified to prevent SPAM.a@ 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS Replace "at" with "@", "dot" with "." Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991 8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Mar 2003 14:31:34 -0800$ From: bdhobbs18@acm.org (Bill Hobbs)+ Subject: Re: RP06's and Field Service callsu= Message-ID: <74ca5032.0303121431.56bc6607@posting.google.com>r   "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> wrote in message news:<BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4023D9C95@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>...g@ > >>> "Son, you're going to learn how to replace heads on a disk > drive..."<<< > H > Mmmm.. I wonder how many FE's today would even know what a scope was - > let alone know how to use it.n >  > :-)i  F Back when I was young and stupid (as opposed to now being old, stupid,D and experienced), the Air Force sent me thru nine months of computerE repair school at Keesler AFB, Miss. in 1975 and 1976.  They taught me=A basic electronics, logic circuits, o-scopes and multimeters, coreIF memory, ALU, paper tape, plug boards, modems, etc..  A couple of yearsE ago, I considered getting back into computer repair in the Reserves.  E IIRC, there is no longer a computer repair specialty, the closest was=D electronics/communications technician.  I didn't want to go thru theE now six month school, so I took the correspondence course (CDC).  ThejB first volume was about fixing computers, mostly checking for looseF connections and getting Windows to cooperate - I don't recall seeing aD logic diagram anywhere.  The second volume was telephone repair, the% last was tropo-scatter radio systems.e  A I suspect that contractors repair many military systems now ... Is* wonder if some of them were my classmates.   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 19:09:52 +0000 (UTC) + From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb)r& Subject: SSH server EAK - X forwarding+ Message-ID: <b4o0lv$fnv$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>h  O I've just installed the DEC TCPIP Services SSH v2 server but can't seem to get U. X11 forwarding working with any SSH 2 clients.L Are others seeing this problem ? Is this part of the "missing functionality" of the EAK ?  I Or is there something I need to change in the server configuration file -l* as I did to allow password authentication.  M Unfortunately I'll have to go back to using the public domain ssh 1.5 server  $ if this functionality isn't present.  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------   Date: 12 MAR 2003 20:37:35 GMT4 From: karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher)* Subject: Re: SSH server EAK - X forwarding6 Message-ID: <12MAR03.20373536@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>  C In a previous article, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb) wrote:h  ? ->I've just installed the DEC TCPIP Services SSH v2 server but pB ->can't seem to get X11 forwarding working with any SSH 2 clients.N ->Are others seeing this problem ? Is this part of the "missing functionality" ->of the EAK ?  D Yep. My earlier post 3/7 on this same issue hasn't seen any replies.  B  <http://groups.google.com/groups?q=karcher+eak+group:comp.os.vms>   --G -- Carl Karcher, Waisman Computing Services, Waisman Center, UW-Madisono4 --             karcher.nomorespam@waisman.wisc.edu     ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 19:23:26 GMTn  From: CJT <cheljuba@prodigy.net> Subject: Re: unixe* Message-ID: <3E6F892E.2060904@prodigy.net>   Patrick Scheible wrote:o > jmfbahciv@aol.com writes:4 >  >  >  >>[about Unix] >>C >>On the contrary, this may be its Achilles' heel.  There is no one B >>entity to babysit the bits, enforce standards, and have the lastB >>say on Bad Ideas.  Do not misunderstand me.  Given a choice, I'dC >>always vote for the side that distributes the knowledge; however,.? >>there's a complete set of other problems that comes with that  >>choice >  > G > There's not one entity for all of Unix, but each of the BSDs and each > > of the Linux distributions has a group babysitting its bits. > H > Open source gives some protection to users against arbitrary decisionsF > by companies.  Multiple open source versions of Unix gives even moreF > protection.  Good ideas can get copied, while organizational failureA > by one group still leaves other versions of Unix around.  Whilet@ > converting wouldn't be painless, it would be easier than, say,! > converting from TOPS-10 to VMS.r >  > -- Patrick  D Who does integration and regression testing of all the donated bits?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 15:33:30 -0500p* From: "J. Clarke" <jclarke@nospam.invalid> Subject: Re: unixr; Message-ID: <pan.2003.03.12.20.33.28.840575@nospam.invalid>o  3 On Wed, 12 Mar 2003 12:38:34 +0000, jmfbahci wrote:x  5 > In article <VmFMk9z$RLC9@eisner.encompasserve.org>,aA >    koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote:tG >>In article <b4kv4a$rq0$5@bob.news.rcn.net>, jmfbahciv@aol.com writes:p >>> J >>> It certainly is likely that I have a complete misunderstand about OpenJ >>> Source.  I had presumed that, since I had to buy RedHat off the shelf,& >>> that it was no longer Open Source. >>J >>   RedHat isn't selling you the source.  You can download that for free.H >>   RedHat is selling you the packaging, including a much easier way to' >>   install then starting from source.u >>J > This is the third explanation that still seems to support my impression.4 >  It appears that Red Hat is no longer Open Source!  D You don't _have_ to buy RedHat off the shelf.  You can for no chargeJ download the CD images from their ftp site and burn your own that have theI same content as the ones that come in the box.  Most folks who don't havesD broadband tend not to go that way though because it's an effing huge download to do over a modem.  D Redhat doesn't include the source CD in the box with the entry-levelG product however you can also download that image for no charge and burn I it.  Again folks who don't have broadband and want the source tend to payeD them the fee (which IIRC barely covers the handling charges to burn,F package, and ship the CD) for the source CD instead of downloading it.  D In any case, Linux is distributed under the GPL, which makes it openG source, and once something is GPLed it would take an act of Congress towH un-GPL it--it is not within RedHat's power to make Linux other than open source.o >  > /BAH > ) > Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.t   -- a --John- Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot netG# (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 20:40:46 GMTe  From: CJT <cheljuba@prodigy.net> Subject: Re: unix[* Message-ID: <3E6F9B4F.4080202@prodigy.net>   bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca wrote:e > Bill/Carolyn Pechter wrote:, > B >> They do sell support and maintenance and I just picked up theirA >> RedHat Network update support for my wife's box which now does = >> Text-to-Speech of the console tty output so she can accessi1 >> the unix system from the pc while being blind.r >>I >> Now all I do is run their update service regularly and it uploads the L
 >> patches2 >> to the system for security and bugfixes for me. >  > @ >  If you read the fine print , Red hat does not suport installsG > or updates over a modem. Since I have a modem I use Free BSD instead.e > Ben. >   , Does that include DSL modems?  Cable modems?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 16:00:27 -0700c% From: lars@bearnip.com (Lars Duening)- Subject: Re: unix05 Message-ID: <1frpnoo.gmsgfe1dnwatcN%lars@bearnip.com>Y  ) J. Clarke <jclarke@nospam.invalid> wrote:L  9 > On Wed, 12 Mar 2003 02:03:49 +0000, Alan Barclay wrote:n > K > > In article <b4kv4a$rq0$5@bob.news.rcn.net>,  <jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote:oE > >>It certainly is likely that I have a complete misunderstand abouta@ > >>Open Source.  I had presumed that, since I had to buy RedHat5 > >>off the shelf, that it was no longer Open Source.5 > > D > > No, you don't have to buy it off the shelf. You can download it,C > > or someone who has downloaded it or bought a copy can duplicate3 > > it and give you a copy.E > > ? > > The only difference between buying it and downloading it isn) > > that you get support when you buy it.m > E > And precious little of that--in theory you can download patches andEJ > updates, but in practice you have to pay for premium support--there is aF > download site for people who have bought the box but not the premiumH > support, but if you try to download from it you find very quickly that  > most of the time it is "busy".  E Personally I don't really care; I just need one Linux distribution  - E any distribution - which installs easily and which I can use to debugdC Linux-related problems in my project. For real work and daily use I  stick with FreeBSD and OS X.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 15:41:49 -0700L From: bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca Subject: Re: unixe+ Message-ID: <3E6FB7AD.7060106@jetnet.ab.ca>,  
 CJT wrote:  A >>  If you read the fine print , Red hat does not suport installs2H >> or updates over a modem. Since I have a modem I use Free BSD instead. >> Ben.C  - > Does that include DSL modems?  Cable modems   @ If it does not use a network card , Red hat will not support it. Ben.  A Btw the big bloat on Linux installs is the Network and other FileS system support.]   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 23:59:08 GMTS' From: CBFalconer <cbfalconer@yahoo.com>Q Subject: Re: unixt) Message-ID: <3E6FC8B7.86C7A1C4@yahoo.com>l   bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca wrote:e > Bill/Carolyn Pechter wrote:s > C > > They do sell support and maintenance and I just picked up theiraB > > RedHat Network update support for my wife's box which now does> > > Text-to-Speech of the console tty output so she can access2 > > the unix system from the pc while being blind. > > = > > Now all I do is run their update service regularly and it C > > uploads the patches to the system for security and bugfixes forA > > me.  > B > If you read the fine print , Red hat does not suport installs orD > updates over a modem. Since I have a modem I use Free BSD instead.  ? How can they tell?  All they should see is an address.  So it'sT2 moving data slowly - maybe the ISP is really busy.   -- r< Chuck F (cbfalconer@yahoo.com) (cbfalconer@worldnet.att.net);    Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.E:    <http://cbfalconer.home.att.net>  USE worldnet address!   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Mar 2003 02:48:29 GMT From: rmk@rmkhome.comi Subject: Re: unixs3 Message-ID: <3e6ff17c$0$197$75868355@news.frii.net>a  2 In alt.folklore.computers jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:  ? > This is the third explanation that still seems to support my s@ > impression.  It appears that Red Hat is no longer Open Source!  ; It also contains some binary-only drivers and applications.i -- t, rmk@rmkhome.com		http://www.rmkhome.com/~rmk   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 05:35:02 +01005* From: Giles Todd <gt@localhost.at-dot.org> Subject: Re: unix 8 Message-ID: <fl107v00gmof1g9n7fouvcn3ds7jjpblff@4ax.com>  B On Wed, 12 Mar 03 12:40:38 GMT, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote in message! <b4nci1$pv0$19@bob.news.rcn.net>:E  A > Sigh!  I had the definite impression when I read the box labels D > at the store that there wasn't a _source_.  Ergo, they've eschewed > Open Source policy.n  E Having recently bought SuSE 8.1 on CD, I can confirm your impression.l> Nevertheless, there is nothing in the licence to stop you from. obtaining the GPLed sources by your own means.  F After going through the various Linux distributors' Web sites, I endedC up with the impression that at least one distributor is obeying thetC letter of the GPL while doing its damnedest to ignore the spirit of;C the GPL.  Maybe that was just me and my ignorance of the way thingsS0 work in the Linux world.  Your mileage may vary.  D IME, FreeBSD is a lot easier to work with on a day-to-day basis thanF the Linux distribution which I bought.  But that is purely my personalF opinion and most definitely not the opening shot in a specious OS war.C Many people whose opinions I respect use Linux (that was the reason;# why I wanted to try it for myself).e   Giles.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 20:28:44 +0100_" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>$ Subject: Re: VAX Shared SCSI anyone?6 Message-ID: <b4o1pg$226u5b$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>  7 "Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> schreef in bericht-# news:3E6F3086.FD40BABF@127.0.0.1...1 > Frank Sapienza wrote:r > >OF > > Has anyone attempted to share SCSI devices between a VAX and Alpha system? G > > Running VMS, naturally.  Everything I've found so far says it's not8? > > supported, but that doesn't mean someone hasn't tried!  :-)  > >eJ > > The thought was to use a DWZZA-AA (standalone) and connect the SE side to aK > > VAX (4106) SCSI bus, then connect the FWD side to an Alpha differentialf bus L > > (KZPSA), with an HSZ40 in between.  The VAX and Alpha are clustered over > > DSSI (and LAN).j > D > _Right_ _now_ we're "having a little go", not with native VAX SCSIJ > controllers, but "third party" (and I use the quotes with reason) with aF > fair amount of success, but with more work and understanding to take > place. THis is between VAXes.q >iC > I'd agree with other respondents that you've have fun with devicehG > naming, but as the lock management is based on volume labels, even if'H > you get 'ghost' devices which are the same as already mounted devices,F > if you refer to the logical created at mount time, you should be OK,, > Alphas work that way when not using a PAC. >pH > An Alpha and VAX, dunno. After we've figured out (if possible) the VAXG > to VAX which does what is expected, this will be the next experiment.h > J > > Would that behave correctly, and would the lock manager figure it out, or is- > > it just asking for trouble?1 >aF > I mentioned the lock manager above, and as to asking for trouble, if1 > you've a testbed, then try it, and let us know.e >gI > I'll report here with how we get on with the VAXes if its worth talkingo > about. >a Nice  D please keep us informed about this experiment, whatever the outcome.  
 Hans Vlems   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 19:12:33 GMT / From: brooks@cuebid.zko.dec.nospam (Rob Brooks)l$ Subject: Re: VAX Shared SCSI anyone?- Message-ID: <N9ItBcQsW015@cuebid.zko.dec.com>o  * Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes: > Rob Brooks wrote: 1 >> "Frank Sapienza" <sapienza@noesys.com> writes:e: >> > Will OpenVMS/Itanium support shared SCSI in clusters? >>         No.  G > Is this because of the move over to FibreChannel, i.e. that customersnB > would be expected to multi host their data other than over SCSI?< 	We're making an effort to make a lower-cost storage product= for fibre-channel.  "Lower-cost", of course, is all relative.1  . > With there be CIPCA (CI) support on Itanium?H 	No.  I'm not a hardware guy, but I believe the reason is that the CIPCAM requires a PCI slot and the Itanium-based systems will have only PCI-X slots.   J If you feel that the lack of either the CIPCA or shared SCSI on Itanium isJ a problem, please send your cards and letters to Andy.Schneider(at)hp.com.  5 He's the product manager for Storage and VMSclusters.t --    M Rob Brooks    VMS Engineering -- I/O Exec Group     brooks!cuebid.zko.dec.comE   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 22:15:34 +0000 (UTC)e' From: Thomas Dzubin <dzubint@vcn.bc.ca>v$ Subject: Re: VAX Shared SCSI anyone?) Message-ID: <b4obi6$duk$1@luna.vcn.bc.ca>   + Frank Sapienza <sapienza@noesys.com> wrote:oL > Oh, and yes, I believe shared SCSI on VAX is not supported at all, whether" > it's VAX-to-VAX or VAX-to-Alpha.  F OK, so at the risk of sounding really stupid and embarassing myself...  F If I take a SCSI cable and connect up my VAXStation 4000/60 (HostID=6)B and my VAXserver 3100 (HostID=7) together, power them both up, andB only Boot one of them (i.e: leave the other one at the >>> prompt)! this configuration will NOT work?v= (meaning my VS4000 will NOT be able to use the VS3100 disks?)   C It's something I've always wanted to try, but I always thought that E I might burn something out.  (Obviously, I know next to nothing aboute SCSI)t  
 Thomas Dzubine   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 23:31:40 GMTl, From: "Frank Sapienza" <sapienza@noesys.com>$ Subject: Re: VAX Shared SCSI anyone?? Message-ID: <wrPba.137488$gf7.29635483@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>i  4 "Thomas Dzubin" <dzubint@vcn.bc.ca> wrote in message# news:b4obi6$duk$1@luna.vcn.bc.ca...aH > If I take a SCSI cable and connect up my VAXStation 4000/60 (HostID=6)D > and my VAXserver 3100 (HostID=7) together, power them both up, andD > only Boot one of them (i.e: leave the other one at the >>> prompt)# > this configuration will NOT work?p? > (meaning my VS4000 will NOT be able to use the VS3100 disks?)S >r  L Assuming you get the bus termination right, that should work.  However, whatI we've been talking about here -- and to use your environment -- is having=G both the 4000 and 3100 booted *and* having both systems access the sameAB drive at the same time as well.  It's an entirely different beast.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 19:00:34 -0500H2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)$ Subject: Re: VAX Shared SCSI anyone?L Message-ID: <rdeininger-1203031900340001@user-105n92u.dialup.mindspring.com>  J In article <N9ItBcQsW015@cuebid.zko.dec.com>, brooks@cuebid.zko.dec.nospam (Rob Brooks) wrote:M    / >> With there be CIPCA (CI) support on Itanium?cP >        No.  I'm not a hardware guy, but I believe the reason is that the CIPCAN >requires a PCI slot and the Itanium-based systems will have only PCI-X slots.  H There are PCI slots on current Itanium systems, but 5-volt PCI slots areG getting fairly rare.  The whole industry is moving away from 5V slots.  F And there's no 3.3-volt CI adapter available.  Each CIPCA needs two 5V& slots. (One slot only provides power.)   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 15:32:24 -0500 * From: "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca>' Subject: Re: VMS - duplicating databasee3 Message-ID: <dQMba.1787$945.5513@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>a  G If you're talking about an Oracle database, then you would need to have # Oracle installed on the other node.a1 You certainly have good backups of your database.eH Just retore on the new machine. Then you need about 30 seconds to get itE going. Of course you'll probably have to define some logical names totG reflect the new datafiles distribution on the new disks. That should beh easily/quickly taken care of.oA I suggest you contact the DBA on how to restore his/her database.u  I Installing the db software must be done first, for anything else than RMS1   --   OpenVMS 7.2-1, Oracle 8.1.6.0B   SyltremnI http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site - en franais)e8 To reply to myself directly, remove zulu from my address  D "Tim Smith" <timasmith@hotmail.com> a crit dans le message de news:2 a7234bb1.0303120930.40a5523e@posting.google.com... > Hi,mG >     I have a large 200GB database that I need to duplicate to another H > node.  Does anyone have a procedure for this.  I have a bunch of disksD > that I can backup the entire database to and I believe I can mountE > those on the second node (VMS guys do I need to reboot that node?).lG >     What do I have to do, apart from init.ora to 'point' the database  > to the new name? >t > thanks >E > Timp   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.141 ************************