1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 15 Mar 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 145       Contents: Another missed opportunity Re: Another missed opportunity Re: Another missed opportunity Re: Another missed opportunity) Re: Backward compatibility of executables  Re: Big Endian vs little Endian  Re: Big Endian vs little Endian , DECserver 90M with GS80/160/320 SMC Question0 Re: DECserver 90M with GS80/160/320 SMC Question Re: Disk mirroring SCSI drives5 Re: download file without opening from OSU web server 5 Re: download file without opening from OSU web server $ Re: File Conversion from VMS to UNIX$ Re: File Conversion from VMS to UNIX$ Help using SYS$CRELNM and SYS$TRNLNM( Re: Help using SYS$CRELNM and SYS$TRNLNM) Re: HP explains quarterly results numbers . Imination one of the nicests forms of flattery. RE: Is http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/ down?. Re: Is http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/ down?. RE: Is http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/ down?. Re: Is http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/ down?. Re: Is http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/ down? Limits on TELNET sessions  Re: Limits on TELNET sessions  Re: Limits on TELNET sessions  Re: Limits on TELNET sessions  Re: Limits on TELNET sessions $ Maximum record length allowed in RMS3 Re: MicroVAX disk upgrade options (new if possible) * Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants* Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants* Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants* Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants* Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants* Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants* Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants* Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants* Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants' Re: National Moratorium to Stop the War ' Re: National Moratorium to Stop the War ' Re: National Moratorium to Stop the War ' Re: National Moratorium to Stop the War  Re: Numeric usernames  Re: Numeric usernames 
 Old is new* Re: Open VMS Laser Printing and OverlayingP RE: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marveland Alpha Retai1 Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 1 Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 1 Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 1 Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 1 Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 1 Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 1 Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 1 Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 1 Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 1 Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 1 Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 1 Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants  Scan Disks for media errors?  Re: Scan Disks for media errors?  Re: Scan Disks for media errors?  Re: Scan Disks for media errors? Re: unix Re: unix Re: unix Re: unix Re: unix Re: unix Re: unix Re: unix Where to buy a VAXstation? Re: Where to buy a VAXstation?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 16:53:11 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca># Subject: Another missed opportunity / Message-ID: <3E72411F.768CD60A@vl.videotron.ca>   0 http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/030314/atf001_1.html  G The Swiss air traffic control system is being migrated from an old Data % General MV environment to Windows NT.   N Scary isn't it ? You'd think that after their mistake last year which resultedG in an air-to-air collision, they'd have chosen a more serious platform.   H Seems to me that for air traffic control, VMS would be the best possible: solution with its disaster tolerance , clustering etc etc.  J But then again, it is hard to pitch VMS to such customers now, since AlphaL will be gone by the time the conversion is over and they need to start a new converion to that IS64 thing.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 23:59:36 GMT + From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (leslie) ' Subject: Re: Another missed opportunity 9 Message-ID: <I1uca.14493$eb.239123@twister.austin.rr.com>   1 JF Mezei (jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca) wrote: 2 : http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/030314/atf001_1.html : I : The Swiss air traffic control system is being migrated from an old Data ' : General MV environment to Windows NT.  : H : Scary isn't it ? You'd think that after their mistake last year which I : resulted in an air-to-air collision, they'd have chosen a more serious   : platform.  : J : Seems to me that for air traffic control, VMS would be the best possible< : solution with its disaster tolerance , clustering etc etc. : L : But then again, it is hard to pitch VMS to such customers now, since AlphaI : will be gone by the time the conversion is over and they need to start  % : a new converion to that IS64 thing.   C The part about securing expertise for a legacy platform sounds like # an argument often used against VMS:   H   "...Throughout the years, Skyguide had tuned its software, which runs I    on a DG MV platform, to meet the demanding requirements of air traffic G    control in Switzerland. However, the DG MV system was withdrawn from D    the market, and Skyguide anticipates that it will be increasinglyE    difficult to secure spares and expertise for this legacy platform.   G    Following the migration to Windows NT, Transoft will enable Skyguide H    to maintain its software systems -- written in ADA, Fortran 77, C andH    Assembler -- preserving the knowledge and skills of current IT staff,H    plus guaranteeing the essential high availability and security of the
    system.  @    "The reliability and sustained accessibility of our system isF    obviously vital for what we do," said Joel Jordan, head of the dataI    processing division of Skyguide. "This migration project with Transoft H    will remove any future risk associated with the hardware and maintain4    the high level of safety our industry demands..."    F "Windows NT" and "high availability and security" in the same sentenceG hopefully means there's something that supplies the "high availability  , and security" besides Windows NT; e.g. PLCs.      2 --Jerry Leslie   (my opinions are strictly my own)9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for email    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 03:00:40 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> ' Subject: Re: Another missed opportunity I Message-ID: <sHwca.132467$em1.94688@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   8 "leslie" <LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM> wrote in message3 news:I1uca.14493$eb.239123@twister.austin.rr.com... 3 > JF Mezei (jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca) wrote: 4 > : http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/030314/atf001_1.html > : F > : The Swiss air traffic control system is being migrated from an old Data) > : General MV environment to Windows NT.  > : C > : Scary isn't it ? You'd think that after their mistake last year  which B > : resulted in an air-to-air collision, they'd have chosen a more serious 
 > : platform.  > : C > : Seems to me that for air traffic control, VMS would be the best  possible> > : solution with its disaster tolerance , clustering etc etc. > : B > : But then again, it is hard to pitch VMS to such customers now, since Alpha D > : will be gone by the time the conversion is over and they need to start ' > : a new converion to that IS64 thing.  > E > The part about securing expertise for a legacy platform sounds like % > an argument often used against VMS:  > D >   "...Throughout the years, Skyguide had tuned its software, which runsC >    on a DG MV platform, to meet the demanding requirements of air  traffic D >    control in Switzerland. However, the DG MV system was withdrawn fromF >    the market, and Skyguide anticipates that it will be increasingly= >    difficult to secure spares and expertise for this legacy 	 platform.  > @ >    Following the migration to Windows NT, Transoft will enable SkyguideF >    to maintain its software systems -- written in ADA, Fortran 77, C and C >    Assembler -- preserving the knowledge and skills of current IT  staff,F >    plus guaranteeing the essential high availability and security of the  >    system. > B >    "The reliability and sustained accessibility of our system isC >    obviously vital for what we do," said Joel Jordan, head of the  dataB >    processing division of Skyguide. "This migration project with TransoftA >    will remove any future risk associated with the hardware and  maintain6 >    the high level of safety our industry demands..." >  > ? > "Windows NT" and "high availability and security" in the same  sentence; > hopefully means there's something that supplies the "high  availability. > and security" besides Windows NT; e.g. PLCs.    . Air traffic control and Windows????!!!! Yikes!6 Gives a whole new meaning to The Blue Screen of Death.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 21:35:04 -0600  From: brandon@dalsemi.com ' Subject: Re: Another missed opportunity 1 Message-ID: <03031421350473@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>   4 Guess I will not be flying Swiss Air anytime soon...  ) Not until they get the bugs worked out...   = I guess that means I will not be flying Swiss Air, PERIOD. ;o      John Brandon VMS Systems Administrator  Dallas Semiconductor john.brandon@dalsemi.com 972.371.4172 wk  972.371.4003 fx    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 15:38:20 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>2 Subject: Re: Backward compatibility of executables/ Message-ID: <3E722F99.2524E3C9@vl.videotron.ca>   E Yesterday, I saw another occurance of backward competibility problem.   : I have compiled/linked LYNX on VAX VMS 7.2 with TCPIP 5.3.  M Then, from ALL-IN-1, while reading an email that had been sent to me as html, D I decided to try to fire up LYNX to read that file. Unfortunatly, itI complained about UCX$IPC_SHR.EXE having ident mismatch (the node on which K ALL-In-1 runs is still at TCPIP 5.0 because 5.3 crashes the system when you " try to activate a SLIP interface).  S So it isn't enough to also have the OS versions match, but also the TCPIP services.   J I'll have to look into the LYNX link procedure to see if I couldn't changeM some parameters to allow  execution on any version of the UCX$IPC file (which = is just a stub pointing to the TCPIP$IPC if I remember well).    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 15:33:10 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>( Subject: Re: Big Endian vs little Endian/ Message-ID: <3E722E64.83F8C61C@vl.videotron.ca>   N I think that the VMS engineers should settle this once and for all, and create! a medium-endian operating system.   P Microsoft would Shirley follow with its revolutionary "random endian" system :-)   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 21:33:07 GMT & From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>( Subject: Re: Big Endian vs little Endian0 Message-ID: <nUrca.363$ul6.240@news.cpqcorp.net>   Tom Linden wrote:    > 5 > I suppose I can find that with Google if I need it?  >   @ Why Google?  The docs are pretty easy to find at the Intel site.  : ftp://download.intel.com/design/Itanium/manuals/245317.pdf   You can find them all at  A http://developer.intel.com/design/itanium/manuals/iiasdmanual.htm      --   John Reagan ' Compaq Pascal/{A|I}MACRO Project Leader  Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 13:03:40 -0800 < From: Rick Millhollin <rickm.remove-this@oregon.uoregon.edu>5 Subject: DECserver 90M with GS80/160/320 SMC Question 8 Message-ID: <7ng47v8rjh7bhqprp5hf5dtpqkesnv6g7u@4ax.com>  E We have a couple of AlphaServer GS80s in our VMScluster, one of which D came with a System Management Console PC and software that we didn't9 use because we had an existing Heroix RoboCentral console A infrastructure in place.  The SMC came with a "management console C concentrator" terminal server  that is actually a DECserver 90M.  I E would now like to use that box along with serveral other 90Ms we have F as a terminal server for RoboCentral.  I notice that the new 90M has aC dial switch and two ports of some kind on the back that my old ones D don't have.  No hardware documentation came with the 90M to describeB these.  The SMC documentation has a picture that shows setting theD dial to "management agent", but has no description of the other dialE positions in general or the ports that look like ethernet.  I want to ; set this 90M up like a "normal" old 90M, so need the switch E documentation.  Any suggestions on where I could find such?  HP Field E Service has looked via thier resources, but can only find the old 90M ? manual I already have.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.  	 Thanks...     1 Rick Millhollin, Director of Computing Facilities @ University of Oregon Computing Center, Eugene, Oregon 97403-12120 Phone: (541)346-1730  FAX: (541)346-6438 or 4397C E-mail: rickm123@oregon456.uoregon789.edu (remove anti-spam digits)    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 16:47:28 -0500 0 From: "Alan Boyles" <alan.boyles@mindspring.com>9 Subject: Re: DECserver 90M with GS80/160/320 SMC Question / Message-ID: <v74m2cd07a3067@corp.supernews.com>   H Contact Dennis Majikas @ dmajikas@dnpg.com for all your questions on theF Decservers.  You can also look at www.digitalnetworks,net  and all the$ current manuals are available there.   AlanI "Rick Millhollin" <rickm.remove-this@oregon.uoregon.edu> wrote in message 2 news:7ng47v8rjh7bhqprp5hf5dtpqkesnv6g7u@4ax.com...G > We have a couple of AlphaServer GS80s in our VMScluster, one of which F > came with a System Management Console PC and software that we didn't; > use because we had an existing Heroix RoboCentral console C > infrastructure in place.  The SMC came with a "management console E > concentrator" terminal server  that is actually a DECserver 90M.  I G > would now like to use that box along with serveral other 90Ms we have H > as a terminal server for RoboCentral.  I notice that the new 90M has aE > dial switch and two ports of some kind on the back that my old ones F > don't have.  No hardware documentation came with the 90M to describeD > these.  The SMC documentation has a picture that shows setting theF > dial to "management agent", but has no description of the other dialG > positions in general or the ports that look like ethernet.  I want to = > set this 90M up like a "normal" old 90M, so need the switch G > documentation.  Any suggestions on where I could find such?  HP Field G > Service has looked via thier resources, but can only find the old 90M @ > manual I already have.  Any help would be greatly appreciated. > Thanks...  >  > 3 > Rick Millhollin, Director of Computing Facilities B > University of Oregon Computing Center, Eugene, Oregon 97403-12122 > Phone: (541)346-1730  FAX: (541)346-6438 or 4397E > E-mail: rickm123@oregon456.uoregon789.edu (remove anti-spam digits)    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 23:47:04 GMT 6 From: "Andy Bustamante" <a_c_bustamante@earthlink.net>' Subject: Re: Disk mirroring SCSI drives B Message-ID: <YRtca.904$pK4.91329@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>  L You've had some good points posted, volume shadowing for VMS level RAID-1 orK hardware RAID-1.  If all you're looking for is a "backup" system boot disk, G you can create a disk to disk backup.  See Backup and backup/image.  On K sites without raid capabilities I'll leave a disk in place with copy of the  system disk.  L The disk don't need to be identical, but the target needs to be large enoughK to hold your data.  You'll need to update your backup when your system disk G changes (ECO's, network changes, system parameter changes for example). H This is one more thing to keep track of, but this is a possible low costI option.  This will require manual intervention to change disks but it can 0 allow you to schedule a system disk replacement.   --     Andy Bustamante  Remove the ascii 95s to reply . "Oscar" <oscar@mroscar.co.uk> wrote in message6 news:7c07dbc5.0303130230.838a908@posting.google.com...	 > Hi All,  > F > I have a DS10 (OVMS7.3) with 2 identical SCSI hard drives (dka0: andC > dka100: ) and I want to  mirror the data on dka0 to dka100 in (as & > close to as is practical) real time. > D > After a quick google I found all sorts of potential ways (and thenA > paniced when I saw warnings like "this WILL corrupt on DKdriver ) > devices) but I do not know what to use.  > E > I am just after a simple mirror so, in worst case scenario, when/if C > dka0 becomes unusable I can boot off dka100 (or slap dka100 in an  > identical alpha) > F > Any suggestions/advice would be most welcome as I am still trying to > get to grips with OVMS >  > Thanks in Advance  >  > Oscar  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 15:30:59 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>> Subject: Re: download file without opening from OSU web server/ Message-ID: <3E722DE1.9649F5DD@vl.videotron.ca>    June Young wrote: ? > print "Content-disposition:attachment;filename=test.pdl\n\n";  > open(INPUT, "<test.pdl");  > while(<INPUT>){print $_;}  > M > The test works on an Apache server on NT but does not work on OSU server on  > VMS.K > Does anyone have the similar experience? Is there any other alternatives?   M Use FETCH_HTTP to see exactly what header your OSU server is providing. It is : possible that your header would be incomplete. Or perhaps   A Another method would be to, in your URL, provide a link such as :   V <A href="http://www.chocolate.com/calories/table.xls" type="application/octet-stream"> Click here</A>  I By specifying the type in the A tag, you tell the browser to override the K setting provided by the server and can specify a mime type that would force N most browsers to prompt to save the file. (Not sure if non-compliant microsoftO software would still look at the file extension and disregard the rest though).    Re: Content-disposition   0 Here is what the RFC 2616 (HTTP 1.1) has to say: 15.5 Content-Disposition Issues H RFC 1806 [35], from which the often implemented Content-Disposition (seeG section 19.5.1) header in HTTP is derived, has a number of very serious N security considerations. Content-Disposition is not part of the HTTP standard,L but since it is widely implemented, we are documenting its use and risks forE implementors. See RFC 2183 [49] (which updates RFC 1806) for details.     And near the bottom of document:   19.5.1 Content-DispositionN The Content-Disposition response-header field has been proposed as a means forM the origin server to suggest a default filename if the user requests that the H content is saved to a file. This usage is derived from the definition of% Content-Disposition in RFC 1806 [35].   / content-disposition = "Content-Disposition" ":" * disposition-type *( ";" disposition-parm )6 disposition-type = "attachment" | disp-extension-token6 disposition-parm = filename-parm | disp-extension-parm, filename-parm = "filename" "=" quoted-string disp-extension-token = token9 disp-extension-parm = token "=" ( token | quoted-string )   
 An example is 5 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="fname.ext"   J The receiving user agent SHOULD NOT respect any directory path informationL present in the filename-parm parameter, which is the only parameter believedM to apply to HTTP implementations at this time. The filename SHOULD be treated  as a terminal component only.   F If this header is used in a response with the application/octet-streamN content-type, the implied suggestion is that the user agent should not display@ the response, but directly enter a save response as... dialog.9 See section 15.5 for Content-Disposition security issues.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 21:30:49 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")> Subject: Re: download file without opening from OSU web server6 Message-ID: <00A1CDB6.642555F1@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  Y In article <Hioca.30177$cB3.150300@nnrp1.uunet.ca>, "June Young" <jy@dymaxion.ca> writes: % >We are using OSU server on Open VMS.  > K >We intend to design a page with play/download buttons. The download button 9 >is supposed to download the target file without open it.  > , >We found from the web perl cgi code for it:> >print "Content-disposition:attachment;filename=test.pdl\n\n"; >open(INPUT, "<test.pdl"); >while(<INPUT>){print $_;} > L >The test works on an Apache server on NT but does not work on OSU server on >VMS.   F I'm kinda surprised this works on NT.  Is a PDL a binary file?  If so,L you might want to use the COPY_BIN program, which I'm pretty sure is in the  OSU distribution somewhere.    -- Alan   O =============================================================================== 0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056 M  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025 O ===============================================================================    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 11:40:27 -0800 0 From: Randy Park <rjpark@mindspring.nospaam.com>- Subject: Re: File Conversion from VMS to UNIX 8 Message-ID: <jkb47vs0dk3pro24qdfa84l2f5iluj6ccr@4ax.com>  , On Thu, 13 Mar 2003 16:58:03 -0400, JF Mezei( <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote:   >Tom Rymes wrote: K >> Maybe I'm wrong, but I would imagine that they should have some in-house E >> software tools to allow a more or less automated transfer of these K >> files, no? (They do this for any customer moving from VAX to UNIX, which - >> seems to be their big push at this point.)  >  >There are two issues. > H >Moving the files from one machine to another. This is a no-brainer withJ >Kermit. (well, ok, you do need a few brain cells, but if a frog can do it >(me), anyone can :-)  > M >The second issue is that of file contents and formats. If the application on F >the target system uses different file formats for the layout of data,O >paremeters etc, then the data itself may need some conversion. The application T >folks should have some tools to migrate the data format from one fromat to another.  D There is another potential issue here, namely, application verions. = It is not unusual for file conversions to be required when an A application is upgraded from an old version to a current version.   A This user may be looking at three different types of conversions; C file format due to OS changes, record format due to OS changes, and ) data content  due to application changes.   ; The people doing the change may not know much about VMS and C therefore are quoting you a big price.  Then when you throw in your E BASIC programs, well, it could just blow the roof off any quote.  Due C to all of this, you could be looking at custom written programs for A every data file conversion needed.  Then throw in all the testing B and verification that's required, you may as well consider getting! bids for a whole new application.   	 Good Luck    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 21:19:31 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> - Subject: Re: File Conversion from VMS to UNIX ' Message-ID: <3E729BC3.61625EEE@fsi.net>    Frank da Cruz wrote: > 5 > In article <9OFTavBRffrx@eisner.encompasserve.org>, $ >  <briggs@encompasserve.org> wrote:E > : It is clear that he does not have an end-to-end high speed serial E > : connection.  Going to an archive format saves you from the hassle B > : of doing two directory-tree to directory-tree transfers with a > : PC in the middle.  > : L > Again, ZIP and similar archives save each file in local format; they offerK > no conversion of text-file formats from one platform to another, at least L > not unless you find a way of doing all your text files in one archive, and# > all your binary files in another.   $ Well, that's not entirely necessary.   See:  5 http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/zipunzip/sld034.htm 
 ...thru...5 http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/zipunzip/sld037.htm   E Note that while you can do this in multiple steps, the target archive F can be the same for each successive operation. So, you *CAN* have themH converted suitable for the target platform (DOS or UN*X) *AND* have them> all in one archive. Ya just gotta do the ASCII and BINARY file, separately, while updating the same archive.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Mar 2003 15:09:26 -0800$ From: rcbryan@hotmail.com (RC Bryan)- Subject: Help using SYS$CRELNM and SYS$TRNLNM < Message-ID: <fbcf38dc.0303141509.796eafc@posting.google.com>  D I discovered that I can use sys$crelnm to create a logical name withA about over 160 values but when I try to use sys$trnlnm to get the B values, it won't let me look at values above 127.  This is kind ofE frustrating since I can see the values from the DCL prompt by typing:    $ sho log myname  % and I see all the values I defined.     0 How does DCL look at all the values?  How can I?   Thank you for any input.   Regards,	 /RC Bryan    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 20:09:12 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>1 Subject: Re: Help using SYS$CRELNM and SYS$TRNLNM / Message-ID: <3E726F04.575B3C03@vl.videotron.ca>    RC Bryan wrote: C > about over 160 values but when I try to use sys$trnlnm to get the 4 > values, it won't let me look at values above 127.   F Interesting because the doc mentions that this is given as a longword.  M When you get the first F$TRNLNM requesting the MAX_INDEX value (which returns C the number of equivalences), does it respond with 127 or with 160 ?   K What happens if you request the transation of index 129 ? Does it return an 8 error, return the right value, or return index value 1 ?   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Mar 2003 14:28:36 -08001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) 2 Subject: Re: HP explains quarterly results numbers= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0303141428.19db6bbc@posting.google.com>   v keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) wrote in message news:<cf15391e.0303140910.611802b5@posting.google.com>...% > HP issued a press release on Friday   . Sorry for the bad URL.  Here's one that works:9 http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/2003/030313d.html   * Another good article on the numbers issue:4 http://news.com.com/2100-1003-992369.html?tag=fd_top   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 22:07:31 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>7 Subject: Imination one of the nicests forms of flattery / Message-ID: <3E728AB7.57478638@vl.videotron.ca>    http://www-124.ibm.com/dlm/   C IBM's DLM for Linux modeled after VAXcluster. And it's opensourced.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 21:25:34 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")7 Subject: RE: Is http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/ down? 6 Message-ID: <00A1CDB5.A80FE7C8@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  o In article <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E4903027BD8@rlghncst964.usps.gov>, VAXVMS <bounce@notmail.com> writes: ( >Baby peanut disparaged Montagar thusly: >>> >>"David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message% >>news:<3E7157F8.832FBB0C@fsi.net>...  >>> VAXVMS wrote:  >>> > : >>> > I got a phone call this morning from someone who had= >>> > talked to Mrs. C- the message has been relayed to David 9 >>> > and he'll be looking into things as soon as he can.  >>> I >>> Perhaps someone has discovered that since VMS cannot be attacked, the I >>> attack must be launched against something running on it that's not as  >>> bullet-proof as VMS itself.  >>H >>Montagar seems to be just a bunch of thieves anyway.  They took my $30. >>and gave me a CD-ROM that I'm locked out of. >>  L I'm guessing that his problem is that he paid $30 for a CD and got a CD, as K promised, but it's no use without the hobbyist license, which he can't get   while Montagar is down.   N "Thieves" is, um, the wrong word for people who send you the goods you bought.   >> > * >I must strongly object to your assertion. > / >David C. is honest and a stand-up guy to boot.    I second this.   -- Alan   O =============================================================================== 0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056 M  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025 O ===============================================================================    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 13:56:49 -0800 ( From: Alan Frisbie <Abuse@NelsonUSA.com>7 Subject: Re: Is http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/ down? - Message-ID: <3E725021.5215C96B@NelsonUSA.com>   
 VAXVMS wrote:   + > I must strongly object to your assertion.  > 0 > David C. is honest and a stand-up guy to boot.  7 I will agree with this most emphatically.   David is an 9 honest, hardworking gentleman and deserves our praise for 7 everything he does for the VMS community.   If you wish > to disagree with me about this, please step outside --------->   Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 20:14:15 -0600 + From: Andy Stoffel <a.stoffel@adelphia.net> 7 Subject: RE: Is http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/ down? > Message-ID: <Xns933ED806AFBDEacsfcgnetworksnet@216.166.71.230>  @ winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") enlightened us with > news:00A1CDB5.A80FE7C8@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU on 14 Mar 2003:    > In articleB > <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E4903027BD8@rlghncst964.usps.gov>,& > VAXVMS <bounce@notmail.com> writes: ) >>Baby peanut disparaged Montagar thusly:  >>> ? >>>"David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message & >>>news:<3E7157F8.832FBB0C@fsi.net>... >>>> VAXVMS wrote: >>>> >; >>>> > I got a phone call this morning from someone who had > >>>> > talked to Mrs. C- the message has been relayed to David: >>>> > and he'll be looking into things as soon as he can. >>>>< >>>> Perhaps someone has discovered that since VMS cannot be< >>>> attacked, the attack must be launched against something< >>>> running on it that's not as bullet-proof as VMS itself. >>> B >>>Montagar seems to be just a bunch of thieves anyway.  They took6 >>>my $30 and gave me a CD-ROM that I'm locked out of. >>>  > @ > I'm guessing that his problem is that he paid $30 for a CD and= > got a CD, as promised, but it's no use without the hobbyist 5 > license, which he can't get while Montagar is down.      B My guess would have been that he tried to read the CD on a PC :-).@ [I could have sworn you could INSTALL VMS without a license. You! just can't USE it afterward.... ]    -Andy-   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 21:10:03 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> 7 Subject: Re: Is http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/ down? ' Message-ID: <3E72998B.E34BA00D@fsi.net>    Baby Peanut wrote: > b > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3E7157F8.832FBB0C@fsi.net>... > > VAXVMS wrote:  > > > : > > > I got a phone call this morning from someone who had= > > > talked to Mrs. C- the message has been relayed to David 9 > > > and he'll be looking into things as soon as he can.  > > I > > Perhaps someone has discovered that since VMS cannot be attacked, the I > > attack must be launched against something running on it that's not as  > > bullet-proof as VMS itself.  > H > Montagar seems to be just a bunch of thieves anyway.  They took my $30. > and gave me a CD-ROM that I'm locked out of.  G You owe these guys a very large public apology. I've met them in person H at DECUS and while we do have some vigorous differences of opinion, theyD are honest, honorable gents and I am proud just to have a peripheral association with them.  A If you have a problem with a product, instead of making an ass of F yourself in public, you'd do well to contact the source and attempt toF seek remediation before you go making public statements that will come' back to haunt you for a very long time.   G You're already on Sue Skonetski's spit list. I would have thought you'd 0 have learned from that. Apparently, I was wrong.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 21:11:36 -0600n1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>s7 Subject: Re: Is http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/ down?e' Message-ID: <3E7299E8.E4FD3A41@fsi.net>i  * Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr wrote: > q > In article <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E4903027BD8@rlghncst964.usps.gov>, VAXVMS <bounce@notmail.com> writes:/* > >Baby peanut disparaged Montagar thusly: > >>@ > >>"David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message' > >>news:<3E7157F8.832FBB0C@fsi.net>...s > >>> VAXVMS wrote:e > >>> >m< > >>> > I got a phone call this morning from someone who had? > >>> > talked to Mrs. C- the message has been relayed to DavidL; > >>> > and he'll be looking into things as soon as he can.  > >>>nK > >>> Perhaps someone has discovered that since VMS cannot be attacked, the K > >>> attack must be launched against something running on it that's not asb! > >>> bullet-proof as VMS itself.t > >>J > >>Montagar seems to be just a bunch of thieves anyway.  They took my $300 > >>and gave me a CD-ROM that I'm locked out of. > >> > M > I'm guessing that his problem is that he paid $30 for a CD and got a CD, assL > promised, but it's no use without the hobbyist license, which he can't get > while Montagar is down.a  F Well, not entirely. He can still log in on OPA0:, but that's about it.  P > "Thieves" is, um, the wrong word for people who send you the goods you bought. >  > >> > > , > >I must strongly object to your assertion. > >l1 > >David C. is honest and a stand-up guy to boot.r >  > I second this.   I'll third it!   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemst http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/h   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 14:07:08 -0500o( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>" Subject: Limits on TELNET sessions, Message-ID: <3E72285C.3090806@tsoft-inc.com>   Environment:   MV 3100 model 80 40 MB memory VMS 7.2e TCP/IP V5.0t Process limit 120o Balance set limit 108s
 IJOBLIM 80 Authorized logins 80 Unlimited user license  L In the past, terminal servers and terminals or PC were used for interactive M access.  Now almost all access is via TELNET from PCs.  When the interactive  J number of jobs approaches 60, additional login attampts fail.  No license K message.  No messages as when interactive login limit is reached.  Just no t TELNET access.  Q I don't know much about TCP/IP.  Are there some parameters which would limit the aO number of TELNET connections?  Any other ideas?  I'm suspecting TCP/IP because aP I've never seen thin in the past, and VMS isn't saying anything, so the attempt ( may never get far enough to talk to VMS.   Dave   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 14:27:28 -0600x From: brandon@dalsemi.comn& Subject: Re: Limits on TELNET sessions1 Message-ID: <03031414272882@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>-  P >>> I don't know much about TCP/IP.  Are there some parameters which would limitO >>> the  number of TELNET connections?  Any other ideas?  I'm suspecting TCP/IPoP >>> because  I've never seen thin in the past, and VMS isn't saying anything, so8 >>> the attempt may never get far enough to talk to VMS.   Yes there is, see below:  ) NODEX::BRANDON> TCPIP SHOW SERVICE TELNET   L Service             Port  Proto    Process          Address            State  O TELNET                23  TCP      not defined      0.0.0.0             Enabledo  / NODEX::BRANDON> TCPIP SHOW SERVICE TELNET /FULLM   Service: TELNET -                            State:     Enabled,G Port:               23     Protocol:  TCP             Address:  0.0.0.0uK Inactivity:          1     User_name: not defined     Process:  not defined C Limit:            2000     Active:    110             Peak:     140-   File:         not defined  Flags:        Listen RttyM  % Socket Opts:  Keepalive Rcheck Schecke0  Receive:         3000     Send:            3000  7 Log Opts:     Actv Dactv Conn Error Logi Logo Mdfy Rjct   File:        not defined@   Security  Reject msg:  not definedy  Accept host: 0.0.0.0a  Accept netw: 0.0.0.0   4 NODEX::BRANDON> TCPIP SET SERVICE TELNET /LIMIT=4000     John Brandon VMS Systems Administratord Dallas Semiconductor john.brandon@dalsemi.com 972.371.4172 wkt 972.371.4003 fxc   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 16:23:24 -0400s0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>& Subject: Re: Limits on TELNET sessions/ Message-ID: <3E723A27.16A15BB2@vl.videotron.ca>c   David Froble wrote: R > I don't know much about TCP/IP.  Are there some parameters which would limit the! > number of TELNET connections?       TCPIP> SHOW SERVICE TELNET /FULL  E It will show a limit of users as well as the current number of active J sessions.  It also displays the peak number of telnet sessions you've had.  L TCPIP> SET SERVICE TELNET /LIMIT=nn allows you to set it to a higher number.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 12:22:12 -0600n! From: Dan Moore <dmoore@sosu.edu>G& Subject: Re: Limits on TELNET sessions( Message-ID: <3E721DD4.D8A3D1DC@sosu.edu>  	 Hey Dave,i  Y   Do you have a firewall or proxy server in front of the box that limits telnet sessions?t  ;   We do, this would produce the results you are describing.t  
 Good luck,   Danr   David Froble wrote:    > Environment: >d > MV 3100 model 80 > 40 MB memory	 > VMS 7.2s
 > TCP/IP V5.0t > Process limit 120u > Balance set limit 108h > IJOBLIM 80 > Authorized logins 80 > Unlimited user license >lM > In the past, terminal servers and terminals or PC were used for interactiveeN > access.  Now almost all access is via TELNET from PCs.  When the interactiveK > number of jobs approaches 60, additional login attampts fail.  No licenseeL > message.  No messages as when interactive login limit is reached.  Just no > TELNET access. >sR > I don't know much about TCP/IP.  Are there some parameters which would limit theP > number of TELNET connections?  Any other ideas?  I'm suspecting TCP/IP becauseQ > I've never seen thin in the past, and VMS isn't saying anything, so the attempt * > may never get far enough to talk to VMS. >i > Dave   --	 Dan Moore-$ Director of Administrative Computing& Southeastern Oklahoma State University" 1405 North Fourth Avenue  PMB 4230 Durant, Oklahoma   74701-0609s+ Phone: (580) 745-2006   Fax: (580) 745-2007l   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 01:56:27 GMTe1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>.& Subject: Re: Limits on TELNET sessions2 Message-ID: <3E7286EE.C1A28F81@firstdbasource.com>   brandon@dalsemi.com wrote: > R > >>> I don't know much about TCP/IP.  Are there some parameters which would limitQ > >>> the  number of TELNET connections?  Any other ideas?  I'm suspecting TCP/IPiR > >>> because  I've never seen thin in the past, and VMS isn't saying anything, so: > >>> the attempt may never get far enough to talk to VMS. >  > Yes there is, see below: > + > NODEX::BRANDON> TCPIP SHOW SERVICE TELNETt > N > Service             Port  Proto    Process          Address            State > Q > TELNET                23  TCP      not defined      0.0.0.0             Enabledn > 1 > NODEX::BRANDON> TCPIP SHOW SERVICE TELNET /FULLv >  > Service: TELNETg/ >                            State:     Enabled I > Port:               23     Protocol:  TCP             Address:  0.0.0.0 M > Inactivity:          1     User_name: not defined     Process:  not definedoE > Limit:            2000     Active:    110             Peak:     140  >  > File:         not definedw > Flags:        Listen Rttyt > ' > Socket Opts:  Keepalive Rcheck Scheckn2 >  Receive:         3000     Send:            3000 > 9 > Log Opts:     Actv Dactv Conn Error Logi Logo Mdfy Rjct  >  File:        not definedi > 
 > Security >  Reject msg:  not definedi >  Accept host: 0.0.0.0s >  Accept netw: 0.0.0.0n > 6 > NODEX::BRANDON> TCPIP SET SERVICE TELNET /LIMIT=4000 >  > John Brandon > VMS Systems Administrator  > Dallas Semiconductor > john.brandon@dalsemi.com > 972.371.4172 wkh > 972.371.4003 fx    and don't forget t. $SET LOGIN   !show how many logins are allowedD $SET LOGIN/INTERACTIVE=<n>  !where n is some number larger thatn 60.     --   Regards,  6 Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 19847 First DBA Source, Inc.    Registered Linux User #261163e   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 16:34:55 -0700s$ From: Lee Y T Mah <lytmah@cha.ab.ca>- Subject: Maximum record length allowed in RMSn) Message-ID: <3E72671F.8760DA64@cha.ab.ca>t  9 The default value of 32767 for Sysgen parameter RMS_DFLRLi; would imply that this is the maximum record length allowed.!< After fiddling around with an FDL file, I was able to create9 an indexed file with a record size of 32,224 bytes (using  maximum bucket size of 63).r7 However, using another FDL file, I was able to create at; sequential file with maximum record length of 65,535 bytes.s  < Has anyone experienced success in going beyond these limits?     -- Leeg  5 L Y T Mah                    Email:  lytmah@cha.ab.can Capital Health Authority Information Systems, RAH CSC Edmonton, Alberta, CANADAc   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Mar 2003 12:46:30 -0800& From: jordan@ccs4vms.com (Rich Jordan)< Subject: Re: MicroVAX disk upgrade options (new if possible)= Message-ID: <cc5619f2.0303141246.536e8ab8@posting.google.com>f  d "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message news:<CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIOENHGMAA.tom@kednos.com>...3 > That may be, but that did not answer my question.i >   $ > present 1GB device for old systems  B No way i know of for a boot device, and that is the only place you. should have a problem on the really old boxes.  D But that of course has nothing to do with my question.  Larger disksD are desireable, and supported on the model 85.  The question is whatC can still be procured for these systems that comes with a warranty,tF preferably HP/Compaq with onsite, so we can leave them off the supportC contract for a while.  The RZ26Ls are costing a few hundred bucks ae; year in support, which would put a nice dent in the cost ofxB replacements as long as we don't have to put them on support right away.    Rich JordanC CCS    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Mar 2003 14:39:31 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)d3 Subject: Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 3 Message-ID: <$JwW2Xga1vpq@eisner.encompasserve.org>   Y In article <b4scef$s9l$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb) writes:  > M > According to todays Daily Mail the latest idiocy is that a US Congresswoman P > Ginny Brown-Waite (Florida Republican) is putting a "Bring Home our Dead Bill"N > to congress demanding that US servicemen buried in France be disinterred and" > bought back to the US. To quote  > N > "The remains of our brave servicemen should be buried in patriotic soil, notH > in a country that has turned its back on the U.S. and on the memory of' > Americans who fought and died there."d  E    Somebody tell her many of those fellows are burried on hallowed US G    ground.  France gave some of the large American cemetaries to the US F    and they are legally in the US.  Don't know how any location can be    more patriotic.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 16:09:24 -0500m* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>3 Subject: Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants02 Message-ID: <O9KcnU-EdvGa2O-jXTWcpQ@metrocast.net>  . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageD news:H1pca.245135$UXa.171079@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com... >n7 > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messageh. > news:zrmdnZZeQ8xgiO-jXTWcrg@metrocast.net... > >cA > > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in messaget- > > news:3E71FC0D.1011C388@vl.videotron.ca...e > >. > > ...l > > G > > > If France were to state that they have nothing against the Uniteda	 > States,r > > butr> > > > that they have problems with the policies of the current > government and > > hope? > > > that friendly relations will resume in 2 years when a newt > government ise6 > > > elected, what would be the reaction in the USA ? > > >gH > > > Is the hatred of France such that americans would vote for Bush Jr	 > in 2004  > > > just to spite France ? > >iH > > Some might.  But a lot more might just because we don't particularly? > > appreciate having outsiders meddle in our election process.n >uC > Just as well outsiders don't get involved. Imagine how messy THATfG > would be added to the current situation where American 'insiders' cancD > stuff ballot boxes, deny voters the right to even reach the ballotF > boxes, require them to produce multiple pieces of ID which then they: > summarily dismiss, and then deny those that did vote the= > constitutional right to have their vote counted accurately.   L The fact that we might benefit from help in such areas in no way affects theK way we'd likely respond to being told whom to vote for - i.e., your commentS1 may be insightful but is not relevant in context.6   ...s  H > > As long as the Administration can present the impasse at the U.N. as > the ? > > result of obnoxious French behavior (something we have some  > acquaintanceG > > with, though much less so in recent decades) rather than as being av > largeeD > > international coalition against *us*, then its importance can be > dismissed. >  >eF > French...obnoxious behaviour? Perhaps Americans ought to take a longG > hard look at their political leaders with the lights on and then do as. > side-by-side comparison with French leaders.  F Perhaps you should read what you quoted above again, in particular theI exception 'in recent decades'.  The attitude of some of the French people I and their leadership has certainly qualified as 'obnoxious' within my own J memory - and while similar aspersions can be cast in our direction as wellC they, once again, really have little to do with the reasons why the J Administration has had some success domestically in its misrepresentations in this matter.u   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 16:13:27 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>3 Subject: Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrantst/ Message-ID: <3E7237D2.65C1E5D8@vl.videotron.ca>   K So, the americans don't accept that another nation criticises its policies, N and would never tolerate that another nation tells them that their leader is aN bozo that needs to be removed before the other nations take the USA seriously.  L Yet, the USA routinely does that to other nations. Bush called for Arafat toL leave. Bush called for Hussein to leave. Bush's cronies criticise the french4 government to no end. The list goes on an on and on.  K Seems that the only government the USA doesn't criticise is that of Israel.-J And don't think Canada got away with its calling Bush Jr a moron. Not longJ after that, that USA imposed stiff sanctions on our wood product that helpJ build affordable homes in the USA. I think that wheat is next on the list.N Funny how the republicans, the ones who pushed for free trade so much, are the< one who quickly forget free trade whenever it is convenient.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 16:27:09 -0500 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>3 Subject: Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrantsd2 Message-ID: <J7SdnRl-4-Ws1O-jXTWcpg@metrocast.net>  = "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in messagec) news:3E7237D2.65C1E5D8@vl.videotron.ca... C > So, the americans don't accept that another nation criticises its 	 policies,t  ! *Some* Americans certainly don't.l  K > and would never tolerate that another nation tells them that their leaderi is aE > bozo that needs to be removed before the other nations take the USAa
 seriously.  L Again, *some* Americans certainly wouldn't - probably more than would botherK holding an active, specific grudge against France (a country which many mayaK consider annoying but few likely consider sufficiently significant to worry K about).  Did you have difficulty extracting that concept from what I wrote?c   >eK > Yet, the USA routinely does that to other nations. Bush called for Arafat  toG > leave. Bush called for Hussein to leave. Bush's cronies criticise thee french6 > government to no end. The list goes on an on and on.  ! By George, I think you've got it!r   >hE > Seems that the only government the USA doesn't criticise is that ofn Israel.d  F Actually, once in a while we do.  But we never seem to back it up with deeds.  C > And don't think Canada got away with its calling Bush Jr a moron.a  D Heaven forbid!  I'm sure that he would easily score at least average6 (perhaps even a bit above) on most intelligence tests.  	  Not long:L > after that, that USA imposed stiff sanctions on our wood product that helpL > build affordable homes in the USA. I think that wheat is next on the list.  D In all fairness to Dubya and his friends, U.S. lumber interests haveG consistently sought, and often obtained, such protectionist tariffs:  IbI wouldn't assume that this was retaliation for calling him a moron (thougheK after the recent reports of 'freedom fries' I wouldn't bet *too* much money 	 on that).   L > Funny how the republicans, the ones who pushed for free trade so much, are theO> > one who quickly forget free trade whenever it is convenient.  B No, it's not funny at all.  Nor, unfortunately, at all surprising.   - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Mar 2003 05:31:33 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>3 Subject: Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrantsa- Message-ID: <87y93hd496.fsf@prep.synonet.com>p  N winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") writes:  B > (This does seem like almost the stupidest thing possible for the > House to waste its time on.)  * Just be thankfull they didn't come up with "The Statue of French"   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.n@                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 22:00:00 GMTe# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>o3 Subject: Re: National Moratorium to Appease TyrantsfJ Message-ID: <Ahsca.245609$UXa.129112@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message , news:O9KcnU-EdvGa2O-jXTWcpQ@metrocast.net... >C0 > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageF > news:H1pca.245135$UXa.171079@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com... > >=9 > > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messagel0 > > news:zrmdnZZeQ8xgiO-jXTWcrg@metrocast.net... > > >mC > > > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in messager/ > > > news:3E71FC0D.1011C388@vl.videotron.ca...a > > > 	 > > > ...i > > >oB > > > > If France were to state that they have nothing against the United > > States,i	 > > > buth@ > > > > that they have problems with the policies of the current > > government and
 > > > hopeA > > > > that friendly relations will resume in 2 years when a newa > > government is 8 > > > > elected, what would be the reaction in the USA ? > > > >pB > > > > Is the hatred of France such that americans would vote for Bush Jr  > > in 2004n > > > > just to spite France ? > > >e= > > > Some might.  But a lot more might just because we don'te particularlyA > > > appreciate having outsiders meddle in our election process.1 > > E > > Just as well outsiders don't get involved. Imagine how messy THAT E > > would be added to the current situation where American 'insiders'o can F > > stuff ballot boxes, deny voters the right to even reach the ballotC > > boxes, require them to produce multiple pieces of ID which thenm they< > > summarily dismiss, and then deny those that did vote the? > > constitutional right to have their vote counted accurately.b >oB > The fact that we might benefit from help in such areas in no way affects themE > way we'd likely respond to being told whom to vote for - i.e., yourf commente3 > may be insightful but is not relevant in context.U >{ > ..._ > B > > > As long as the Administration can present the impasse at the U.N. as  > > the A > > > result of obnoxious French behavior (something we have some  > > acquaintanceA > > > with, though much less so in recent decades) rather than as  being ai	 > > largewF > > > international coalition against *us*, then its importance can be > > dismissed. > >= > >=C > > French...obnoxious behaviour? Perhaps Americans ought to take as longD > > hard look at their political leaders with the lights on and then do a0 > > side-by-side comparison with French leaders. > D > Perhaps you should read what you quoted above again, in particular the=D > exception 'in recent decades'.  The attitude of some of the French peopleD > and their leadership has certainly qualified as 'obnoxious' within my ownD > memory - and while similar aspersions can be cast in our direction as well@E > they, once again, really have little to do with the reasons why then9 > Administration has had some success domestically in itsI misrepresentations > in this matter.   F I didn't say the French government was 'lily-white', nor do I considerD wacko's like Jean-Marie Le Pen to be any more or less representativeF than American  wacko's like Charlton 'from my cold dead hands' Heston.   Aside:A I can just see Madison Avenue dealing with the comparison betweent@ French and American political leaders - "15% More Demagogic ThanD Before", "28% More Xenophobic Than Other World Leaders", "Bonus: 33% More Bile at NO Extra Cost".      E But I agree 100% that the media in the US are mostly a bunch of sheepeC and fail to present the full picture of the scope and importance ofeA the debate playing out on the international stage. It's almost assE though the press/media doesn't really care if there is or isn't a 1stn Amendment any longer.h   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Mar 2003 05:43:48 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>3 Subject: Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrantsc- Message-ID: <87u1e5d3or.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   % "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:i  B > A cynic might say that war is just one big business opportunity,3 > from the production of the weapons systems to thee@ > reconstruction. And that presidents are just shills acting forA > business interests.  And that people dying is incidental to thea > needs of business.  ) So what is cynical about that pray tell? o   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 20:56:52 -0500D* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>3 Subject: Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrantso2 Message-ID: <6Qydnfpkb5n1Fe-jXTWcpg@metrocast.net>  . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageD news:Ahsca.245609$UXa.129112@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...   ...o  G > But I agree 100% that the media in the US are mostly a bunch of sheepfE > and fail to present the full picture of the scope and importance ofiC > the debate playing out on the international stage. It's almost asxG > though the press/media doesn't really care if there is or isn't a 1stf > Amendment any longer.u  I Being sheep is bad enough, but I start to get actively worried when I seelL reasonably well-known reporters (e.g., Forrest Sawyer today and Connie ChungH yesterday - not, you understand, that I'm holding them up as examples ofI *good* reporters) arguing on behalf of the Administration's position whenr their guests don't support it.   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 03:02:01 GMTr# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> 3 Subject: Re: National Moratorium to Appease TyrantsaH Message-ID: <JIwca.132483$em1.9638@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message , news:6Qydnfpkb5n1Fe-jXTWcpg@metrocast.net... >/0 > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageF > news:Ahsca.245609$UXa.129112@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com... >R > ...) >uC > > But I agree 100% that the media in the US are mostly a bunch of3 sheep9D > > and fail to present the full picture of the scope and importance ofE > > the debate playing out on the international stage. It's almost as E > > though the press/media doesn't really care if there is or isn't a7 1sti > > Amendment any longer.i > E > Being sheep is bad enough, but I start to get actively worried whene I see A > reasonably well-known reporters (e.g., Forrest Sawyer today andv Connie Chung> > yesterday - not, you understand, that I'm holding them up as examples of-F > *good* reporters) arguing on behalf of the Administration's position when  > their guests don't support it.    3 Well known and competent can be mutually exclusive.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 19:45:38 GMT0# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>l0 Subject: Re: National Moratorium to Stop the WarI Message-ID: <Cjqca.245298$UXa.66169@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>e  5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messages, news:Q5ednUHaAJy3NvijXTWc3A@metrocast.net...C > After last night's newscasts were full of descriptions of Dubya'sh
 increasingF > rush to war (perhaps to start next week, according to some pundits), IrC > decided to take a look around to see what people were doing about-
 it.  TurnsB > out that today (March 5th) is the date of a planned 'moratorium' (letters tosB > legislators, work stoppages, teach-ins, civil disobedience - the gamut ofE > possible responses), and since the next major planned demonstrationm (a MarchC > 15th march on Washington) may turn out to be after the fact thoseg	 who would E > like to have a chance to register their opposition might want to dos soC > today.  For further information, see www.internationalanswer.org.m    ! In a widely under-reported speechrA http://enews.tufts.edu/stories/030303BushSpeech.htm given in late-E February at Tufts University, former president George H.W. Bush said:   E "Incidentally, the Madrid conference would never have happened if theo@ international coalition that fought together in Desert Storm hadD acceded the U.N. mandate and gone on on its own if the United StatesB had gone on on its own, had gone into Baghdad after Saddam and hisE forces had surrendered and agreed to disarm. The coalition would have@F instantly shattered. And the political capital that we had gained as aF result of our principle restraint to jumpstart the peace process wouldB have been lost. We would have lost all support from our coalition,B with the possible exception of England. And we would have lost all@ support from the smaller nations in the United Nations as well."  D It's unclear whether the foregoing first sentence is a transcriptionB error or a verbatim report of what was actually said. Given Bush'sF penchant for mangling the English languange, it's probably the former.D What we think he said was that had, during Gulf War 1 (GW1),  the USA marched into Baghdad and exceeded the mandate of the operative UNdC resolution, the coalition of forces arrayed against Iraq would have  cracked.  D He clearly recognized the need to act with a coalition in accordance* within the limits of valid UN resolutions.      D He also said, and it is unclear to me whether this was to a reporterE afterwards, or possibly at a different speech entirely,  that his sonaE would want to enter a war "with many allies." I heard this in passingeE on the local tv news one evening in the past few weeks, and have seenh? one reference to it on the net but cannot yet find the original  source.s  9 For all his faults, Bush Sr. 'gets it'. Bush jr. doesn't.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 16:50:44 -0500=0 From: "Alan Boyles" <alan.boyles@mindspring.com>0 Subject: Re: National Moratorium to Stop the War/ Message-ID: <v74m8i5v9734cf@corp.supernews.com>y  L This is not the forum for <stuff> like this, this is a forum for VMS relatedE activites.  If you want to voice political opinions go somwhere else.=    . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageC news:Cjqca.245298$UXa.66169@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...6 > 7 > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message:. > news:Q5ednUHaAJy3NvijXTWc3A@metrocast.net...E > > After last night's newscasts were full of descriptions of Dubya's  > increasingH > > rush to war (perhaps to start next week, according to some pundits), > IoE > > decided to take a look around to see what people were doing about  > it.  TurnsD > > out that today (March 5th) is the date of a planned 'moratorium'
 > (letters toyD > > legislators, work stoppages, teach-ins, civil disobedience - the
 > gamut ofG > > possible responses), and since the next major planned demonstration 
 > (a MarchE > > 15th march on Washington) may turn out to be after the fact those. > who would G > > like to have a chance to register their opposition might want to do  > soE > > today.  For further information, see www.internationalanswer.org.h >e >s# > In a widely under-reported speechLC > http://enews.tufts.edu/stories/030303BushSpeech.htm given in late9G > February at Tufts University, former president George H.W. Bush said:c > G > "Incidentally, the Madrid conference would never have happened if theDB > international coalition that fought together in Desert Storm hadF > acceded the U.N. mandate and gone on on its own if the United StatesD > had gone on on its own, had gone into Baghdad after Saddam and hisG > forces had surrendered and agreed to disarm. The coalition would havegH > instantly shattered. And the political capital that we had gained as aH > result of our principle restraint to jumpstart the peace process wouldD > have been lost. We would have lost all support from our coalition,D > with the possible exception of England. And we would have lost allB > support from the smaller nations in the United Nations as well." > F > It's unclear whether the foregoing first sentence is a transcriptionD > error or a verbatim report of what was actually said. Given Bush'sH > penchant for mangling the English languange, it's probably the former.F > What we think he said was that had, during Gulf War 1 (GW1),  the USC > marched into Baghdad and exceeded the mandate of the operative UN E > resolution, the coalition of forces arrayed against Iraq would have0
 > cracked. >mF > He clearly recognized the need to act with a coalition in accordance, > within the limits of valid UN resolutions. >7 >8 >3F > He also said, and it is unclear to me whether this was to a reporterG > afterwards, or possibly at a different speech entirely,  that his son G > would want to enter a war "with many allies." I heard this in passingoG > on the local tv news one evening in the past few weeks, and have seen A > one reference to it on the net but cannot yet find the original 	 > source.  >e; > For all his faults, Bush Sr. 'gets it'. Bush jr. doesn't.  >t >k >s >e   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 00:03:18 GMTf# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>s0 Subject: Re: National Moratorium to Stop the WarG Message-ID: <a5uca.32454$a41.3202@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>u  ; "Alan Boyles" <alan.boyles@mindspring.com> wrote in messageC) news:v74m8i5v9734cf@corp.supernews.com...rF > This is not the forum for <stuff> like this, this is a forum for VMS related A > activites.  If you want to voice political opinions go somwherep else.   E I tend to agree that this isn't the forum for this sort of thing, buttD the thread is HERE, and I didn't start it. Besides which, the peopleF participating in this thread do have an interest in VMS, are generallyD a cut above in terms of vast unwashed of the net and do tend to haveC better debating skills, and from time to time the thread does drift ( back to mention VMS (at least I try to).  $ Shall I give it a metaphorical shot?  ! Iraq & Saddam = Microsoft & Gateso Arab League = Linux- U.N. = Eunuchs, er...unix F Israel: surrounded, outnumbered, but still the strongest in the region = VMSm   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Mar 2003 18:14:00 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)n0 Subject: Re: National Moratorium to Stop the War3 Message-ID: <iwsg4LMIE48w@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  b In article <v74m8i5v9734cf@corp.supernews.com>, "Alan Boyles" <alan.boyles@mindspring.com> writes:N > This is not the forum for <stuff> like this, this is a forum for VMS relatedG > activites.  If you want to voice political opinions go somwhere else.    <snip 68 lines>i  E While I agree with you, I also don't think it is appropriate to quote " off-topic posts in their entirety.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 19:20:07 GMTo9 From: Alan Adams <alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>  Subject: Re: Numeric usernames? Message-ID: <825e32d34b.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>f  & In message <3E715709.2AEA3F4B@fsi.net><           "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:   > Alan Adams wrote:a > > 3 > > In message <xzeba.167$rf3.133@news.cpqcorp.net>b2 > >           hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) wrote: > > i > > > In article <bSJM8xotvMAE@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: b > > > :In article <3E6D635F.FF9E5486@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:& > > > :> "Barratt, Chris (FMC)" wrote:	 > > > :>> P > > > :>> What implications are there in a username not having the correspondingG > > > :>> identifier created ?  (and hence in using numeric usernames).! > > > :>5 > > > :> Roughly the same as usernames sharing a UIC.. > > > :n > > > :I disagree strongly.o > > >:K > > >   Larry is correct.  Sharing UICs is hugely different than not having L > > >   a text-format translation of a UIC value in the RIGHTSLIST (which isI > > >   what AUTHORIZE ADD is referencing here) and sharing UICs can leadoH > > >   to all manner of interesting security problems and exposures andK > > >   accountability issues.  Like a username, a UIC should be issued and : > > >   maintained and accountable to a single individual. > > >mL > > >   If anyone here feels included to share UICs for application-specificH > > >   reasons or for shared storage or such, please look at the use ofH > > >   identifiers and particularly (for storage) resource identifiers. > > L > > PROMIS manufacturing system requires the use of UIC [x.377] for databaseJ > > startup and shutdown. x designates which database. (The reason is fileH > > ownership. Messing with ACLs on the database would break during each1 > > upgrade, which is difficult enough as it is.)g > > N > > In order for both System Admin and database Admins to be able to start andN > > stop, either both need to share a password, or we create two accounts withL > > same UIC. In this case we felt that the shared UIC gave better security. > E > Group level permissions and privileges should more than suffice andeG > still allow any member number within group x to perform the necessaryn > functions. > F > Study up on the Guide to OpenVMS Security or e-mail me privately forC > assistance. How to demung the reply-to address should be obvious.a  L I agree. The issue was that each upgrade to the application restored all theK original settings, and as that upgrade was prone to failures anyway, addingrL a step to change all the protection wasn't acceptable to the database adminsD (or to me, as I'd then need to support the upgrade to a much greater extent.)  B Having a pair of accounts share a UIC, and therefore reduced auditL capability was, I still think, the most elegant solution to a vendor-defined problem.  F (The particular protection system did save us a couple of times from aL rather complicated mess when the secondary and primary servers both tried toH run a primary. Since they have different UICs, the protection caused theI rogue secondary to abort, which allowed us to trace and fix the problem.)v  @ Since I don't work on the system any more, it's academic anyway.     >    -- j
 Alan Adams& alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk http://www.nckc.org.uk/E   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Mar 2003 13:40:50 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: Re: Numeric usernames3 Message-ID: <pvaa+UBBI5dI@eisner.encompasserve.org>-  { In article <825e32d34b.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>, Alan Adams <alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk> writes:L  D > Having a pair of accounts share a UIC, and therefore reduced auditN > capability was, I still think, the most elegant solution to a vendor-defined
 > problem.  + What is the reduction in audit capability ?C  + VMS Auditing is based on Username, not UIC.aF That is the whole reason sharing of UICs is sometime quite acceptable.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 04:37:26 GMTT6 From: Jeffrey Coffield <jeffrey@digitalsynergyinc.com> Subject: Old is new-2 Message-ID: <3E72ABB9.10507@digitalsynergyinc.com>   http://www-124.ibm.com/dlm/d   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Mar 2003 12:55:11 -0800& From: jordan@ccs4vms.com (Rich Jordan)3 Subject: Re: Open VMS Laser Printing and Overlayingn< Message-ID: <cc5619f2.0303141255.c8552e2@posting.google.com>  g JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3E6EBB3E.C6BE7FEF@vl.videotron.ca>...: > Rich Jordan wrote: > L > > MANMAN never generates forms longer than 66 lines.  If it did that would > I > And I gather it only generates raw text files with no line exceeding 80l: > characters ? (which may cause the printer to wrap text). >   C Mostly correct.  It was originally designed to print on (optionallyCC multiple part) preprinted forms on matrix or line printers.  It didlD assume line printer font (16.67cpi) so the lines can and do go up to 132 columns.  J > > BTW, if you want to see raw PCL, write a simple doc in Wordperfect andH > > print to disk using a LaserJet or Deskjet driver (don't use Word; itI > > produces the most unbelievably bloated and ugly PCL I've ever had ther% > > misfortune of having to decode). a > N > Sorry, I am a postscript only shop :-) On my MAC, I only bothered installingH > postscript printers, and I don't think I have anything on VMS that canN > generate PCL. Again, another example of my choosing the best technology, butP > that technology losing groud to the el-cheapo stuff sold with el-cheapo wintel# > crap and becoming more prevalent.0  F I like PS but the company would never spend the money for it.  PCL wasF 'good enough', and to be honest its easier to generate simple forms in3 it than to learn yet another 'language' to work in.    Rich CCSc   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 16:20:19 -0500m' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>aY Subject: RE: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marveland Alpha RetaisT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660E3B@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Andrew,s  B <<< In almost all real scenarios rather than TPC-C  and the othersC mentioned below. Clustering for scalability will cost you more than F buying a larger SMP server and will give you more variable results.<<<  G Please .. SMP servers have scaling issues due to cpu cache invalidationLH issues and NUMA servers have issues if memory locality is not taken into consideration.  F In both cases, it depends on how well the application and database are3 designed and/or tuned for that particular platform.:  C It may be Sun's experience that cluster solutions do not scale, but H please don't assume that this is also the case with other vendor cluster
 solutions.   Regards:  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantc Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.! Consulting & Integration Services  Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom-     (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s)  OpenVMS DCL - the original .COM      -----Original Message-----' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy01 [mailto:Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com]=20  Sent: March 12, 2003 7:22 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com.C Subject: Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for!B Marveland Alpha Retain Trust Alpha Retain Trust Alpha Retain Trust         Keith Parris wrote:n& > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy=20= > <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message=20n, > news:<3E6CB3FF.1070701@nospamn.sun.com>... >=207 >>Had you forgotten that you used a cluster in a box to0 >>get decent performance.a >=20 >=20H > Vendors use various creative configurations of technologies to get the  G > best performance, especially for benchmarks.  Unless the benchmark=20FH > rules prohibit a particular optimization, all's fair.  It happens that  B > clustering is one way to scale.  If Sun can't gain additional=20- > performance through clustering, tough luck.a  ? Great posting, but you have just displayed a staggering lack ofaH understanding about how TPC-C works when run on a cluster. Or rather how it doesn't run on a cluster.  F TPC-C's warehouse scheme and clients executing queries against a fixedH warehouse makes the TPC-C workload perfectly partitionable and thereforeD almost perfectly scalable in a "cluster" because the resulting setup* makes almost no use of the cluster itself.  D The largest TPC-C benchmark results in terms of throughput have beenF posted by the vendors who have been prepared to put the largest numberF of servers into a benchmark facility connected together using a bit of wet string.L  B OpenVMS supports Memory Channel a very low latency interconnect toF improve cluster perfromance and scalability, HP have HyperChannel, youF could also use Myranet or SCI and if you really wanted to go for brokeG then you could use SunFire Link now guess what the fastest "cluster" int. the world as far as TPC-C is concerned used ??  E Yup Gigabit Ethernet, no shared storage, single connection per serverl etc etc etc.  D Now this is entirely within the TPC-C rules, but it doesn't make theE result any more usefull and it only serves to reduce the value of theTC benchmark result as a whole, if only because people like me have towE explain to people like you that the configuration used by Compaq (whohG were the offendor) is worthless as a platform to host the vast majority-& of update intensive OLTP applications.  9 Sun doesn't depreciate clustering far from it we have one.D of the lowest latency highest bandwidth cluster interconnects on the= market (SunFire Link) and you don't get that without a goodlya investment.f  > But there are appropriate and inappropriate uses of clustering technology with databases.   Inappropariate uses are:  A Scalability for databases unless you happen to have exhausted thebE throughput of the largest DBMS server you can buy. In almost all real G scenarios rather than TPC-C  and the others mentioned below. ClusteringtF for scalability will cost you more than buying a larger SMP server and$ will give you more variable results.    H Hiding SMP NUMA latency issues by clustering in a box, just go and buy a+ better designed system from another vendor.e   Appropriate uses are:o  G High availability/DR, TPC-C and other perfectly partitionable databasesm and read only DBMS's.e    E To illustrate this we have just run a set of cluster benchmarks alongeG with HP for a customer. We used 4 CPU nodes and SCI HP used 4 CPU nodesaH and HyperChannel (we had tried GigE earlier and it didn't do very well).F Shared storage parallel DBMS. We did better than HP from a scalabilityB and throughput standpoint but even from a hardware perspective theE customer concluded that buying F6800/F15K with the same capacity as 4.B node cluster would be cheaper once you factored in the node costs,H interconnect costs and the shared storage costs. This didn't include the= additional per CPU costs for the DBMS or the parallel option.F   Regards8 Andrew Harrison.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 15:15:02 -0400i0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>: Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants/ Message-ID: <3E722A24.6BC9132D@vl.videotron.ca>e   John Smith wrote:n> > by both parties. Merely throwing up a wall does not stop theH > Palestinians from 'educating', if you can call it that, their childrenD > into violence and misdirected rage, the next generation of suicide > murderers.  M Actually it does. If building such a wall results in Israel no longer needing M to "retaliate" and destroy homes/lives in Palestine, it means that within 2-3lJ generations, Palestinians will no longer have such engrained anger againstK Israel, at which point, proper negotiations on opening up the wall could beeF made and then peoples of Palestine and Israel should see each other as neighbours instead of ennemies.h  I Right now, the two are caught in a vicious cycle of terrorism followed bysE military retaliation of greater strength which fuels more terrorists.a0 Someone/something must break that infinite loop.  N However, in building the wall, Israel MUST widthdraw its settlements which areN inside Palestine, unless Palestine can convince those settlers that they wouldK be welcome to stay in Palestine once those settlements revert to Palestine.   I For Israel to do that, it would require a govermnet with enough power andeM leadership to convince its country that this isn't a loss, but a win and thataI giving back those settlements and building a wall will result in a better L lifestyle for israel citizens, les violence, and in a few generations, true, permanent peace.  L If they have been at war for a thousant years, waiting 50 years for peace to) take root is a very short amount of time.e   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Mar 2003 14:41:27 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)r: Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants3 Message-ID: <gX5+0T8KL4Ez@eisner.encompasserve.org>l  b In article <3E722A24.6BC9132D@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes: > John Smith wrote:d? >> by both parties. Merely throwing up a wall does not stop thetI >> Palestinians from 'educating', if you can call it that, their childreneE >> into violence and misdirected rage, the next generation of suicidev
 >> murderers.u > O > Actually it does. If building such a wall results in Israel no longer needing.O > to "retaliate" and destroy homes/lives in Palestine, it means that within 2-3tL > generations, Palestinians will no longer have such engrained anger againstM > Israel, at which point, proper negotiations on opening up the wall could be H > made and then peoples of Palestine and Israel should see each other as! > neighbours instead of ennemies.a      Berlin redx?   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Mar 2003 04:33:07 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>: Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants- Message-ID: <877kb1elj0.fsf@prep.synonet.com>i  - young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:A  @ > 	They play polo chasing a rider dragging a slain goat.  That's8 > 	a start.  But historically it has always been a mess.  7 That's because it is unfasionable to use a proper head.e  E Woman are rapidly being relegated to the same or worse status outsidesC major city areas, opium is making a very rapid return, and soon the00 warlords will be using the procedes to re-arm...   -- .< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.e@                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 00:00:02 +0100 (CET)o% From: Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com>o: Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants8 Message-ID: <a2ea5cf880a0c1b42054cb6d0abea7c5@dizum.com>  / "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>, blathers:   H [Sorry for the delayed response - I was away most of Wednesday and part 
 of Thursday.]a  B Why don't you do us a favor and go away for a month or two?  MaybeG then we can see more vms in comp.os.vms.  It is getting tiring deletinga your posts.a  5 During your month off maybe you want to help a cause. D I understand Iraq is seeking volunteers to help maintain their powerE generating facilities.  Apparently the entire night shift is quitting A across the country.  They have a desperate need for night workersh# to read gauges and anyone will do.     ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 20:29:43 -0500 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>: Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants2 Message-ID: <wyGdnTuwRPmRH--jXTWc3Q@metrocast.net>  2 "Nomen Nescio" <nobody@dizum.com> wrote in message2 news:a2ea5cf880a0c1b42054cb6d0abea7c5@dizum.com... >t1 > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>, blathers:t >kI > [Sorry for the delayed response - I was away most of Wednesday and parts > of Thursday.]e >t= > Why don't you do us a favor and go away for a month or two?n  0 Because I'd just miss people like you *so* much.     Maybe * > then we can see more vms in comp.os.vms.  L Funny - while I've posted quite a bit on this topic, so have several others:C it appears that some portion of the c.o.v. community finds it worth, discussing here.     It is getting tiring deletingv
 > your posts.i  J Better get lots of sleep, then:  it ain't about to stop, as long as others are interested as well.-   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 19:36:28 -0500y From: GcE <Everhart@gce.com>: Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants+ Message-ID: <b4tvlq$7q8$1@bob.news.rcn.net>T   John Smith wrote:s= > "Alan E. Feldman" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote in messagea9 > news:b096a4ee.0303131620.664fbe5c@posting.google.com...e > 7 >>"Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message   ' [long carefully-argued posting clipped]o >  >  >  >  > @ Simple question. Since the address and name used here don't work@ I'm wondering why there is no real address, and possibly no realB name here? I don't recall anyone in this forum posting anonymouslyB so much...and I have tried to send email to this name (bounced, as I feared it would).s   Glenn Everhart   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 01:33:00 -00000' From: "Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net>m: Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants? Message-ID: <ipvca.687$KB1.262976@newsfep1-win.server.ntli.net>r  E > Israel is a nation state. Palestine is a glimmer in the eyes of theKF > Palestinians until they learn to adhere to the agreements they made.  B Israel developed its nukes by putting up fake walls every time the( inspectors came round. That troubles me.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 03:06:09 GMTW# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>J: Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease TyrantsI Message-ID: <BMwca.132533$em1.24854@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   ) "GcE" <Everhart@gce.com> wrote in message % news:b4tvlq$7q8$1@bob.news.rcn.net...t > John Smith wrote: ? > > "Alan E. Feldman" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote in message ; > > news:b096a4ee.0303131620.664fbe5c@posting.google.com...  > >r9 > >>"Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messagel >e) > [long carefully-argued posting clipped]  > >  > >  > >  > >e > >eB > Simple question. Since the address and name used here don't workB > I'm wondering why there is no real address, and possibly no realD > name here? I don't recall anyone in this forum posting anonymouslyD > so much...and I have tried to send email to this name (bounced, as > I feared it would).t   a) No requirement to.sF b) Some of my customers visit this forum. Sometime personal/work views are best kept separate.    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 03:25:00 GMTr# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>s: Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease TyrantsI Message-ID: <g2xca.132827$em1.15379@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>n  2 "Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message9 news:ipvca.687$KB1.262976@newsfep1-win.server.ntli.net...dC > > Israel is a nation state. Palestine is a glimmer in the eyes ofe theaB > > Palestinians until they learn to adhere to the agreements they made.l > D > Israel developed its nukes by putting up fake walls every time the* > inspectors came round. That troubles me.    A Had the Arab states surrounding Israel known, what do you supposee> their first reaction would have been? Massive invasion without respite.  ? Israel has bought itself some deterence in the absence of peaceiD agreements with its neighbors. ye, their actions were troubling, butC there was ample reason to be circumspect. Israel has not threatenedwA its neighbours with them, with the possible exception of Iraq andFA Iran, and the message in those cases would be "WMD will be met by F WMD". Which is exactly the same message the US uses with any nation it/ 'cares' enough about to pass the message along.d  3 http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/2645379.stmyF Being a signatory to the NPT doesn't mean a nation can't develop, only that they don't proliferate.   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Mar 2003 20:24:29 -0800. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman): Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants< Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0303142024.1a3f9b8@posting.google.com>  g JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3E71FFE3.C7E9CA88@vl.videotron.ca>...o > John Smith wrote:.> > > JF - all peace negotiations are preceeded by a cease-fire. > P > But you can never negotiate a cease-fire if, you have as a pre-condition, that > the cease-fire happens first.h  C Ehud Barak made an offer *without* an official cease fire. You have F consistently ignored that in your rantings. The offer was greeted withD a huge escalation in hostilities by the Palestinians, which you haveA also ignored. It is the Palestinians who refused to negotiate andu somehow you blame the Israelis.   O > Palestinian PEOPLE are very angry against Israel.  The Israel GOVERNENMENT is-O > very angry at Palestine because of the terrorist attacks on Israel territory.e  A Correct. But the Palestinian hate is already maxxed out. They are-F already trying to do whatever they can to kill Israelis. I'm not sure,F but I think one or more of them have actually said so. And, AFAIK, the8 PLO charter *still* calls for the destruction of Israel.  J > The Israel government doesn't want to be seen as buckling to Palestinian# > demands for fear of losing votes.i   There's more to it than that.b  P > Palestinian authority doesn't want to be be seen as buckling to Israel demandsR > for fear of losing whatever little control they still have over their militants.  9 They want Israel itself. Don't fall for their propaganda.W  O > My feeling is that the Israeli government underestimates the isreali people's-J > willingness to make peace happen even with Israel having to give on someB > items. As a result, the government stands firm on their demands.  > There was a growing peace movement in Israel up to the time ofF Intifada II. But that pretty much ruined things for now. You also keep ignoring that fact.X  F Yes, there are bad apples on both sides. But the peace movement (whichE existed *only* on the Israeli side) was doing pretty well, up, until,. the 2nd Intifada.   I > If the goal is long term peace, does it really matter if i is Israel orsP > Palestine which gives in first ? Sure, Israel's pride my have a little scratchA > for a few years. But what is that in terms of long term peace ?d  $ Depends what you mean by "give in".   E Let's see: Whenever the Israelis pull back from the re-occupation (istF that not a "give in"?), the suicide bombers resume. Doesn't sound like a good strategy to me!  P > I do not know to what extent Arafat controls the terrorists, or to what extentP > the terrorists control Arafat. Somehow, I think that the terrorists think thatM > Arafat has softened too much. However, I do know that the Israel government % > ahs full control over its military.   N > If if peace needs someone to start first, I know that Israel has the abilityI > to implement it and stop bombing the hell out of Palestine, it has 100%r  B But only with at great cost: hundreds, even thousands, of dead andF maimed Israelis. The Palestinians *have* the power to stop the Israeli> bombing. They simply have to stop their terrorism. And if theyD demonstrate good will for a land for peace deal, things will improve> greatly for all involved. But don't hold your breath for that!  F The Israelis didn't recoccupy terrorist towns for the hell of it. TheyE did it to try to stop the terrorism. You talk as if they just decidedu2 on a whim to do so, like going for a Sunday drive.  I > control over its army. But I really don't know if Arafat really has the,M > ability to stop the terrorist attacks instantly. My feeling is that it willo    . I agree. I'm not convinced either way on that.    O > take time before the anger boiling in the palestinian people drops to a leveloH > when the motivation to become a sucuide bomber will go away by itself.  E When they offer true peace, when they accept the existence of Israel,lB only then can progress be made. I admit that the settlements don'tC help any. They make a bad situation worse in several ways. But theyRD are not the root cause. Besides, Israel offered to dismantle most of) them, and we got Intifada II as a result.e  8 Still, I have little, if any, sympathy for the settlers.  B But there'd still be a big problem without them, just not quite as bad.  O > I know that Israel argues that Arafat has 100% control over the terrorists. I  > am not 100% convinced. e  1 Neither am I. But it is certainly not negligible.e  9 > And perhaps he feeds them 25% of what they need just so(L > he can retain *some* control over them, but with only 25% of votes, he can& > iverrule the more militant factions.  B I'd like to see a unilateral withdrawal from a good portion of theF OT's and a "sturdy fence" put up to protect Israel, and let the Pales.B have their own country. I'm sure many will find a way to criticizeC Israel even if it did that anyway. But at least the Pales. won't beuE able to complain about settlements or not having their own country! InF think there'd still be attempts at more suicide bombings by the Pales.   Alan E. Feldmane   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Mar 2003 21:02:34 -0800. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman): Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0303142102.2f361255@posting.google.com>n  d "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message news:<WsGcneITW4-9DeyjXTWcqA@metrocast.net>...= > "Alan E. Feldman" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote in messageu9 > news:b096a4ee.0303132008.28ec95d9@posting.google.com...a9 > > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messagej1 >  news:<XLidnQe3OeYySu2jXTWcqw@metrocast.net>...eA > > > "Alan E. Feldman" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote in message = > > > news:b096a4ee.0303121910.6f366ecc@posting.google.com...t > > >l	 > > > ...i > > >n3 > > > > But Bill, you're lightning quick to condemnr > > >fN > > > You've hardly shown yourself to be a sufficiently neutral participant to >  be N > > > qualified even to post thoughtful assessments, let alone such hyperbolicM > > > garbage.  I haven't been 'quick' to condemn anything, and in fact untilc >  the > >dH > > Well, you were justifying current Pales. violence by what Israel did@ > > in 1948 "stealing there homes" as you put it. I'd say that's > > condemnation of Israel.  > K > I'd say you'd better pay closer attention to what you read.  I've clearly M > stated, on more than one occasion, that my problems with Israel date mostlysL > from the Rabin assassination.  And while I've also stated that I felt thatD > less recent history also contributed to making the attitude of theL > Palestinians *understandable*, I've placed the responsibility primarily onK > the manner in which Israel was created by the U.N., not on Israel itself.  >  > ...e > & > > And I said I wan't a good debater. > H > On that point we can agree, and (as I noted above) a major part of theM > reason is that you don't understand what you read.  I'm about to respond torM > the material that 'John' provided, and have noted three additional articles N > (all by apparently Jewish Israelis) from one of the publications he referred' > to that I hope you'll take a look at.=  D I took a brief look. I'll read more of it later as time permits. ButA I'd just like to say here that if you examine Israeli commentary,dE you'll find a full spectrum of views from far left to far right, justW like you would in the U.S.  E It is a very complex and difficult issue. And there are bad apples onaD both sides. But I still think the primary cause of all this trouble,F the common thread, is the Arabs' desire for the destruction of Israel.D They may now say that they only want the WB and GS back, but that is= just propaganda. I don't believe it. Just look at their maps!w  E And I now think that you are less against Israel than I first thoughtb	 you were.s   >  > - bill   Alan E. Feldman    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Mar 2003 22:13:43 -0800. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman): Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0303142213.4372eb2a@posting.google.com>t  d "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message news:<u5qdnU3FB8BQ2fOjXTWcoA@metrocast.net>...0 > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageC > news:5ulba.89409$em1.6428@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...c > >a9 > > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messageD0 > > news:2AydnSZCEepwwPCjXTWcow@metrocast.net... > > >t4 > > > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageI > > > news:jbaba.207959$UXa.39786@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...a > > > 	 > > > ...h > > >oH > > > > Israel was constituted under valid resolutions of the U.N.. From >  itsD > > > > formation in 1948 until relatively recently, Israel has beenJ > > > > surrounded on all sides (except the Mediterranean side) by nations >  whoF > > > > swore that they were going to obliterate Israel and its JewishG > > > > residents from the face of the earth - not the Arab (Muslim andlB > > > > non-Muslims) and Jewish citizens of Israel, just the Jews. > > >fJ > > > And not without some reason - a testament to the ham-handedness with >  whichI > > > Israel was formed.  That of course was the U.N.'s fault rather thaniG > > > Israel's, and as I've said once Israel had become a fait accomplil
 >  rollingF > > > back the clock is not something I'd advocate - but the desire to
 >  obliterateoJ > > > the continuing physical manifestation of the humiliation is entirely > > > understandable.g > >  > >eF > > Exactly how long is it that somebody should take to get over theirA > > 'humiliation'? Or should the 'humiliation' be fanned forever?  > J > Depends on the degree, and the extent to which avenues for redressing itI > continue to exist.  Attempting to retake the land in 1948 was certainly  > understandable.  o  @ You're oversimplifying here, Bill. The situation in 1948 is moreB complex than what your statement here implies. It seems to me thatD Jews have a better claim to this land. All the Jewish holy sites areC there. The Arab claims to having holy sites there is pretty lame byaF comparison. Certainly all considered, two states side by side is okay.F We need some more details here. The Jews had a country there once. The Palestinians never did.r  : > Another attempt in 1967 doesn't seem at all far-fetched.  @ I'm not sure what you mean by "far fetched". What *do* you mean?  G > And the occupation of yet *more* land at that point started the clockSH > again - with the continuing occupying presence keeping it running ever > since.  F Have you caught up with how the boundaries changed over the years? And who attacked whom when?n  C I think John Smith made an excellent post about this "occupation ofhC yet *more* land". I'll not repeat it here except to say that Israelo1 acted in self-defense and the Arabs lost the war.t   >  > > G > > Some 'Christians' would perpetually fan the notion that Jews killed F > > Christ and use that 'message' to perpetually oppress them and deny > > them rights.H > > Some Muslims fan the flames of hatred of Christians for the CrusadesI > > and use Bush's recent utterings of the word 'crusade' to reinvogorate- > > that hatred.I > > Some Macedonians fan the flames of hatred for the Turks for massacresy > > that occured in the 1300's.aC > > Closer to home, Quebec has the slogan "Je me souviens" on theiraI > > license plates. Just what is it that they are 'remembering'? That thesI > > Brits handed them their butts in 1759? That's what some in the Quebec E > > government would prefer Quebecers remember because it suits theiro > > separatist agenda.- > > Ask an Albanian about the 1915 massacres.l2 > > Or very close to home, ask an American Indian. > H > Don't be absurd.  Not even the last two situations occurred within theL > memory of any person living today (and activities involving the redress of6 > injustices to American Indians have not yet ceased). >  > >s > > To all I say, get over it. > L > Easy for you to say.  Perhaps even possible if the Israelis get out of theK > Occupied Territories.  Otherwise, it's more realistic to say, "Better get 3 > used to the status quo, including the terrorism."t    D Both sides have to accept the consequences. And the Pales. are worse1 off now because of their own foolish Intifada II.l      > <more ancient history snipped> > H > > Ask a Jewish person, whether a survivor of WWII or one that lived in< > > the US during that period, what they feel about Germany? > B > The Germany of 1933 - 1945 is nothing like the Germany of today. >  >  Some may feelG > > a revulsion and loathing of Germans and anything German, many won'te/ > > forgive, but most will say 'that was then'.n > N > Not when it comes to continuing to hunt down German war criminals or seekingG > restitution of funds and property when they can be identified.  And I 8 > consider such continuing efforts entirely appropriate.  E Fine. The Palestinians are not hunting down the Jews, or Israelis, ifsF you will, who "took their land". They are hunting down *all* Israelis.E That is the difference. To make it more clear, if the Israelis did tooB Germany what the Pales. are doing to Israel, the Israelis would beD sending suicide bombers into Germany. Instead, they are hunting downF *only* the actual Nazi criminals. That is very different. John Smith's
 point stands.a   >  >  Today there is no desirenJ > > to have an Israeli or US state sponsored policy of pushing the GermansF > > into the sea and obliterating them even though some might say that, > > there is ample reason to think that way. > I > That's because Germany hasn't been persecuting the Jews for over a halfdM > century.  Israel continues persecuting the Palestinians and occupying theird > land at this very moment.d  D That's because the Pales. keep attacking Israel. Israel is acting inD self-defense. The Israelis aren't attacking the Germans. That is the difference.t   >  > > That was then, this is now.. > , > 'Now' is exactly what we're talking about. >  > ...a > @ >   The fact that the Palestinians were acting not as vigilantes
 > > unwillingrC > > > to submit their concerns to duly-constituted authority but ase >  guerillaaI > > > warriors of last resort because that duly-constituted authority wass+ > > > powerless to deal with the situation.e > >hG > > 'Palestine' is not a recognized nation under the U.N.  - Jordan hassI > > given up on the West Bank, Egypt on Gaza. The closest formal identitynH > > they are ever called is 'occupied territories' but without any otherF > > qualifier. Palestinians have observer status at the U.N., but then= > > again if they do then perhaps the Kurds ought to as well.l > N > None of which has anything to do with the fact that the U.N. *has* attemptedJ > to address their plight and been rebuffed by Israel (with the continuing  F It's easy to quote the U.N. when it servers the speaker's purpose. ButF the other side can always say, 'Well, this other U.N. action favors myE case". Let's not use the U.N. for such purposes, as it helps no one's E arguments. If you think a U.N. action was good, then just say that itjD was a good thing. Don't say it was a good thing *because* the UN did it. OK? Because it's not.-  I > support of the U.S., though we have expressed reservations in this areaeE > ourselves).  Having failed to obtain relief through the appropriate+N > channels, their use of violence as a tool to demand it is hardly surprising.  E Their primary goal is the destruction of the state of Israel. That is D consistent with all they have done. The PLO charter even states thatF that is their goal. They themselves have said that that is their goal!7 So don't fall for their propaganda that says otherwise.n   > ...p > F > > > Israel's main current problem is not with its Arab neighbors but >  with theiG > > > Palestinians in the lands it is occupying.  And if it could bring- >  itself toE > > > addressing the Palestinian problem appropriately, its neighborsr >  would becomec# > > > much closer to being friends.. > >@ > >aF > > The Palestinian problem is mostly Arafat's ego and policies ratherG > > than what Israel is doing or not doing. There were several deals on(H > > the table *equally*  palatable/distasteful to both sides that Israel > > said it would sign.5 > F > Gee, if they had *really* been equally palatable, then by definitionK > Israel's willingness to sign would have been matched by the other side ofr > the table.  D Not necessarily. Equal levels of distatefullness doesn't imply equalC levels of willingness to accept it. Two people could find a certaincD food equally repulsive, but one might be more willing than the other  to eat it for a suitable reward.  M > Your posts so far have not exactly seemed unbiased.  That's why I asked fort   And yours aren't?   L > specifics about the nature of the proposals so that I could make up my own6 > mind about who was being reasonable and who was not.  D Well, that's good. Have you read those last three references in that other post yet?(  / >  All Arafat had to do was take a pen from hisb) > > pocket and sign, but he chose not to.  > >iA > > There are excesses on both sides occurring in Israel/occupiedlB > > territories which should stop. Of that I'm sure we both agree. > G > Having both sides stop would tend to perpetuate the status quo of the,1 > occupation, which I don't agree is appropriate.,  D Your taking his statement in a vacuum. He is merely saying one pointC on which we all or might all agree. That doesn't mean he recommends < that and only that. You are clearly being unfair here, Bill.     Abhoring violence is alwaysaL > easy for the party that is otherwise relatively satisfied with the current1 > situation and holds the power to perpetuate it.-  F The Palestinians have the power to help themselves by simply acceptingE the existence of Israel and working earnestly on an agreement of land C for peace. Well, until the Intifada II, anyway. And the Barak offerFE was not a dictate; it was an offer. When you "haggle", you start fromnF a point you know you'll have to compromise on. A final agreement couldB have been better than the Barak offer for the Pales. Did they even3 offer a counterproposal? No. We know what they did.s  @ And I'd like to say that I do sympathize with any Pales. who areF willing to go for a land for peace deal with Israel. (They are not allE bad.) I don't know how many there are, but I wouldn't be surprised ifw it were a small number.a   >  > - bill   Alan E. Feldmano   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 16:35:13 -0500u# From: Tom Rymes <tomnews@rymes.net>t% Subject: Scan Disks for media errors? E Message-ID: <tomnews-1495BB.16351214032003@news.comcast.giganews.com>u  H Thanks to everyone for answers to my file conversion questions. I think 6 I have that under control. Now onto my next conundrum:  D Our VAX runs VMS 5.5-2, which, IIRC, has a 9 GB Disk size limit. Of C course, the smallest new disk drive available is 9.2GB or so. That wE leaves me with used/"refurbished" drives that are somewhat of a crap . shoot. Here are my questions:7  I 1.) Is there a way to buy a brand new 9.2GB drive or larger and fake VMS aI into thinking it is only 8GB or so? Thus I can have the reliability of a  : new drive, but VMS won't complain about it being too big.   E 2.) Is there a command I can issue to scan a drive for media errors, rG etc.? I ask b/c if I buy a used drive, I want to be certain that it is >H free of errors before placing my data on it (for obvious reasons). This I summer we purchased two 4.3GB used drives and both installed and mounted nF up just fine. However, one failed when we copied the data across from I the disk that it was supposed to replace. I would like a way to discover aH any defects before I copy anything across. (I'll even consider mounting H under Windows/Mac and using Norton/Diskwarrior/Silverlining to scan the $ media, if that's the only option...)  D I guess these might be FAQs, but I can't seem to track down answers.  
 Thank you,  	 Tom Rymesd   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 17:42:25 -0600q/ From: Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> ) Subject: Re: Scan Disks for media errors?o3 Message-ID: <3E7268E1.135A5F4C@applied-synergy.com>t   Tom Rymes wrote: > I > Thanks to everyone for answers to my file conversion questions. I thinkt8 > I have that under control. Now onto my next conundrum: > E > Our VAX runs VMS 5.5-2, which, IIRC, has a 9 GB Disk size limit. OfrD > course, the smallest new disk drive available is 9.2GB or so. ThatF > leaves me with used/"refurbished" drives that are somewhat of a crap > shoot. Here are my questions:H > J > 1.) Is there a way to buy a brand new 9.2GB drive or larger and fake VMSJ > into thinking it is only 8GB or so? Thus I can have the reliability of a; > new drive, but VMS won't complain about it being too big.?  C Just to be accurate, VMS 5.5-2 does not have a 9GB disk limit.  VMSeB 5.5-2 will handle larger drives, but RMS has a size limit.  (It is actually 8.something GB.)t  G You can take advantage of this by mounting the larger disk as a foreign E device and then partitioning it.  I use the VDDRIVER package from thep	 freeware.y  H I currently have a VAXstation 4000-90 running VMS 5.5-2 with two SeagateA ST410800N disks.  These are larger than the RMS 5.5-2 size limit.L  F The disks are partitioned into smaller usable chunks that RMS is happyA with.  They are even MSCP served to the cluster without problems.   F The only problem I have encountered is that if the disks go into mountC verification, they don't come out of it automatically.  This is notsD really a problem for me, so I haven't spent time tracking this down.  4 BTW: I would NOT recommend this for the system disk.    bF > 2.) Is there a command I can issue to scan a drive for media errors,H > etc.? I ask b/c if I buy a used drive, I want to be certain that it isI > free of errors before placing my data on it (for obvious reasons). ThisiJ > summer we purchased two 4.3GB used drives and both installed and mountedG > up just fine. However, one failed when we copied the data across from J > the disk that it was supposed to replace. I would like a way to discoverI > any defects before I copy anything across. (I'll even consider mountingtI > under Windows/Mac and using Norton/Diskwarrior/Silverlining to scan theu& > media, if that's the only option...) > F > I guess these might be FAQs, but I can't seem to track down answers.  G What I normally do is to mount the drives, fill them with data (usuallysB BACKUPs of other disks), and then do an ANALYZE/DISK/READ on them.  G Assuming that we are talking about SCSI drives, the drives are supposedyF to have bad block management.  However, this doesn't work correctly onA all drives.  (This is why some sites demand DEC firmware in theirc drives.)  
 Good luck!  G -----------------------------------------------------------------------o$ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  C Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com o   Fax: 817-237-3074u   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 19:27:36 -040020 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>) Subject: Re: Scan Disks for media errors? / Message-ID: <3E726546.4E6BE6E6@vl.videotron.ca>a   Tom Rymes wrote:F > 2.) Is there a command I can issue to scan a drive for media errors,   $HELP ANA/MEDIA   N Plenty of destructive and non destructive tests.  You need to mount/foreign as	 I recall.e   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 00:34:28 GMTt+ From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (leslie)n) Subject: Re: Scan Disks for media errors? 9 Message-ID: <oyuca.14503$eb.244508@twister.austin.rr.com>h  $ Tom Rymes (tomnews@rymes.net) wrote:J : Thanks to everyone for answers to my file conversion questions. I think 8 : I have that under control. Now onto my next conundrum: : F : Our VAX runs VMS 5.5-2, which, IIRC, has a 9 GB Disk size limit. Of E : course, the smallest new disk drive available is 9.2GB or so. That .G : leaves me with used/"refurbished" drives that are somewhat of a crap w : shoot. Here are my questions:s : K : 1.) Is there a way to buy a brand new 9.2GB drive or larger and fake VMS eK : into thinking it is only 8GB or so? Thus I can have the reliability of a i< : new drive, but VMS won't complain about it being too big.  : G : 2.) Is there a command I can issue to scan a drive for media errors, bI : etc.? I ask b/c if I buy a used drive, I want to be certain that it is lJ : free of errors before placing my data on it (for obvious reasons). This K : summer we purchased two 4.3GB used drives and both installed and mounted  H : up just fine. However, one failed when we copied the data across from K : the disk that it was supposed to replace. I would like a way to discover sJ : any defects before I copy anything across. (I'll even consider mounting J : under Windows/Mac and using Norton/Diskwarrior/Silverlining to scan the & : media, if that's the only option...) : F : I guess these might be FAQs, but I can't seem to track down answers. :   1 There are several versions of the OpenVMS FAQ at:s  6      http://h71000.www7.hp.com/wizard/openvms_faq.html      OpenVMS FAQ   from the text version:  4      http://h71000.www7.hp.com/wizard/faq/vmsfaq.txt  B     "9.5  What is the largest disk volume size OpenVMS can access?  7           One Terabyte (TB; 2**31 blocks of 2**9 bytes;d;           0x07FFFFFFF blocks). 255 volumes in a volume set. <           The largest contiguous allocation possible for any0           particular file is 0x03FFFFFFF blocks.  ?           Prior to the release of V6.0, the OpenVMS file system ?           was limited to disk volumes of 8.38 GB (2**24 blocks,s&           16777216 blocks) or less..."    4 Is upgrading to at least VMS 6.x an option for you ?    I The "analyze/media/exercise=full" command will test out a disk by writingaF three patterns to it; see "help analyze/media/exercise" for more info.    2 --Jerry Leslie   (my opinions are strictly my own)9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for emailn   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 19:22:52 +0000 (UTC)s8 From: hawk@slytherin.ds.psu.edu (Dr. Richard E. Hawkins) Subject: Re: unix - Message-ID: <b4ta6c$r0a$7@f04n12.cac.psu.edu>   M In article <3e712eac$0$198$75868355@news.frii.net>,  <rmk@rmkhome.com> wrote:l3 >In alt.folklore.computers jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:p  D >> In addition, I think I finally saw one of HT-TVs.  Not impressed.G >> I was more impressed by what you guys think you need in screen size.   L >I still can't figure out why someone would want one. It's just TV. However,I >I am going to buy another analog TV before my old one dies, so that I'llu >have a spare in the future.  G what's the point?  Production will stop when analog broadcast stops . .0 .0   hawk   -- mK Richard E. Hawkins, Asst. Prof. of Economics    /"\   ASCII ribbon campaignoG dochawk@psu.edu  Smeal 178  (814) 375-4700      \ /   against HTML mail>D These opinions will not be those of              X    and postings. 6 Penn State until it pays my retainer.           / \      ------------------------------   Date: 14 Mar 2003 19:08:47 GMT( From: stanb45@dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Subject: Re: unix.= Message-ID: <slrnb749pt.jhk.stanb45@citadel.metropolis.local>o  7 On Fri, 14 Mar 2003 13:39:57 +0100, Steve O'Hara-Smith   <steveo@eircom.net> wrote: >aQ >c) They [LCD displays] are far too expensive - especially at decent resolutions.i  K Yep, I've been lusting after an Apple 23" 1920x1200 pixel one...that shouldrI be nearly enough real-estate, but it costs more than all my computer gear I put together :-(   I'll keep struggling along with my dual headed 17" and> 15" setup...   --   Cheers,M( Stan Barr         stanb45@dial.pipex.com( **Remove the digits from email address**   The future was never like this!r   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Mar 2003 05:16:03 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> Subject: Re: unixy- Message-ID: <873clpejjg.fsf@prep.synonet.com>W  : hawk@slytherin.ds.psu.edu (Dr. Richard E. Hawkins) writes:  < > I can put the plain postscript up if anyoen is interested.  @ So why are you in a snit with LaTeX? PS is a good second best...   -- o< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.n@                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 22:00:36 +0000m/ From: cbh@ieya.co.REMOVE_THIS.uk (Chris Hedley)i Subject: Re: unixA) Message-ID: <4ejt4b.d23.ln@teabag.cbhnet>o  5 According to Steve O'Hara-Smith  <steveo@eircom.net>:n= > 	I go for 1600x1200 or better and turn up the point size to3 > something readable :).  @ The missus thinks that there's something perverse about me doing that.  I don't understand why.   Chris. -- pO "If the world was an orange it would be like much too small, y'know?" Neil, '84o?   Currently playing: Sing Sing - "The Joy Of Sing Sing" (again)yN   http://www.chrishedley.com  My stuff, including genealogy, other things, etc   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Mar 2003 01:28:26 +0100- From: Andreas Eder <Andreas.Eder@t-online.de>- Subject: Re: unix-* Message-ID: <m3isulo4lx.fsf@elgin.eder.de>   jmfbahciv@aol.com writes:i  C > I used some precious energy yesterday and walked into a Best Buy. A > I read the packaging of Red Hat and something called SUSE (WETH  > that stands for).s  C SuSE is the abbreviation of 'Software und System Entwicklung' whicht( means 'software and system development'.   > Not one mention of source.  . But you get the source on CD with teh package.   'Andreas -- .+ Wherever I lay my .emacs, theres my $HOME.-   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Mar 2003 01:30:32 +0100- From: Andreas Eder <Andreas.Eder@t-online.de>r Subject: Re: unixT* Message-ID: <m3el59o4if.fsf@elgin.eder.de>  6 Roland Hutchinson <my_spamtrap@eudoramail.com> writes:  I > Oh, and their lizard-logo is called "Geeko".  Hard to belive though it iG > may be, someone actually won a contest a few years ago by suggesting g > that name.  > I think it is not a lizard, and neither is it a gecko. It is a
 chameleon.   'Andreas -- e+ Wherever I lay my .emacs, theres my $HOME.r   ------------------------------   Date: 15 Mar 2003 03:04:15 GMT From: rmk@rmkhome.coma Subject: Re: unixo3 Message-ID: <3e72982f$0$189$75868355@news.frii.net>s  S In alt.folklore.computers Dr. Richard E. Hawkins <hawk@slytherin.ds.psu.edu> wrote:o  I > what's the point?  Production will stop when analog broadcast stops . .  > .r  L My cable TV box will continue to put out an analog signal ( already digital L in ). I will be able to go another decade before spending over $250 to watch@ TV. If I had to pay more than that for a TV, I would give it up.    I don't own a DVD player either. -- O, rmk@rmkhome.com		http://www.rmkhome.com/~rmk   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 04:51:05 GMTn+ From: "Joe Heimann" <heimann@ecs.umass.edu>n Subject: Re: unixa/ Message-ID: <Ziyca.444$ws.57790@news.umass.edu>   8 In comp.os.vms Stan Barr <stanb45@dial.pipex.com> wrote:9 > On Fri, 14 Mar 2003 13:39:57 +0100, Steve O'Hara-Smith   > <steveo@eircom.net> wrote: >>R >>c) They [LCD displays] are far too expensive - especially at decent resolutions.  M > Yep, I've been lusting after an Apple 23" 1920x1200 pixel one...that should K > be nearly enough real-estate, but it costs more than all my computer gearwK > put together :-(   I'll keep struggling along with my dual headed 17" and  > 15" setup...  F Apple recently reduced the price on that one by quite a bit, now it isH only very expensive as compared to extremely expensive.  Might only cost% as much as most of your equipment....f   Joe Heimannn   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 20:18:01 -0600 - From: Michael Rice <MichaelARice@knology.net>y# Subject: Where to buy a VAXstation?a/ Message-ID: <v753auhngonc86@corp.supernews.com>/  I I've been wanting a VAXstation for my home network, but there don't seem iI to be many around.  There were a couple on eBay, but I missed them.  Are - there any other sources?  I Specifically, I'd like a VAXstation 4000/90A or better (4000/96 would be : great).e   Thanks.M Michael    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 21:28:41 -0600.1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>w' Subject: Re: Where to buy a VAXstation?l' Message-ID: <3E729DE9.E1737621@fsi.net>    Michael Rice wrote:t > J > I've been wanting a VAXstation for my home network, but there don't seemJ > to be many around.  There were a couple on eBay, but I missed them.  Are > there any other sources? > J > Specifically, I'd like a VAXstation 4000/90A or better (4000/96 would be	 > great).   G Well, I've got three VAXstation 4000/VLCs. Sorry, that's the best I cannH do, but you're welcome to any of 'em for the cost of packing/shipping. IF have two(2) 19-inch monitors and one 17-inch, also. Keyboards and miceE as well. All have RZ26 disk, but only one of 'em has 24MB memory. ThegH other two only have 8MB. I could put a fresh install of OpenVMS-VAX V7.3 on it for you.   -- i David J. Dachteray dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.145 ************************