1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 16 Mar 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 147       Contents: Re: Another missed opportunity Re: Another missed opportunity RE: Another missed opportunity Re: Another missed opportunity Re: Another missed opportunity Re: Another missed opportunity1 Re: DECnet SERVICE CIRCUIT for multiple e-devices 0 Re: DECserver 90M with GS80/160/320 SMC QuestionD Disbelief! (Was: Re: newbie: connect to vms from win2k using decnet)H Re: Disbelief! (Was: Re: newbie: connect to vms from win2k using decnet)< Re: External Authentication and Windows2000 Active Directory( Getting AlphaStation onto Cable Internet, Re: Getting AlphaStation onto Cable Internet, Re: Getting AlphaStation onto Cable Internet, Re: Getting AlphaStation onto Cable Internet# Re: I Have Seen The IA64 Future !!! * Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants* Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants* Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants* Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants2 Re: newbie: connect to vms from win2k using decnet2 Re: newbie: connect to vms from win2k using decnet Re: Numeric usernames  Re: Numeric usernames  Re: Old is new Re: Old is newD RE: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marveland1 Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 1 Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 1 Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 1 Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 1 Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 1 Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 1 Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 1 Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 1 Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants   Re: Samba Missing stropts.h file send mail from an intranet?  Re: send mail from an intranet?  Re: send mail from an intranet?  Re: SQS Listener (again)$ Re: Two VAXes on one SCSI bus (long) Re: unix Re: unix Re: unix Re: unix Re: unix Re: unix Re: unix Re: unix Re: unix Re: unix Re: unix Re: unix Re: Where to buy a VAXstation? Re: Where to buy a VAXstation? Re: Where to buy a VAXstation? Re: Where to buy a VAXstation?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 14:40:22 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>' Subject: Re: Another missed opportunity / Message-ID: <3E73738B.283AD1E0@vl.videotron.ca>    "Main, Kerry" wrote: >  > JF:  >  > Re: Windows NT4 Support:@ > http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=fh;[ln];lifean3  L Interesting that netscape doesn't regonzise the above URL in it entirety, itF stops at the ";". Will have to check to see if the semi colon is valid9 character in a URL. It probably should have been escaped.     @ When did NT 4.0 get released ? Was it between Win95 and Win 98 ?  H Is there any table that shows what percentage of NT shops are using what	 version ?   K Is VT 4.0 still the most popular NT version in production today or have the C vast majority of MS shops migrated to a more recent version of NT ? N I.E. what percentage are at NT 4.0, Windows 2000 and Windows XP ? (s Xp out in serder "edition"?)  L If the vast majority are still at NT 4.0, then pulling support from it wouldG be a bad move. And it shoudl send Microsoft a pretty clear message that K customers are sick and tired of all those major upgrades that cause lots of 3 headaches without providing much more productivity.    ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 20:30:23 +0000 (UTC) ) From: Dan Foster <dsf@globalcrossing.net> ' Subject: Re: Another missed opportunity 5 Message-ID: <slrnb773aq.go5.dsf@gaia.tf.roc.gblx.net>   a In article <3E73738B.283AD1E0@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote:  > B > When did NT 4.0 get released ? Was it between Win95 and Win 98 ?  J NT 4.0 release date was about July 31, 1996. Win95 had been on the desktopK since about November 1995 if I remember right. Prior to NT 4.0's release, a K number of sites were running NT 3.51 for the servers. I very vaguely recall 2 some of the 3.51-to-4.0 "agony" at work back then.  M > Is NT 4.0 still the most popular NT version in production today or have the E > vast majority of MS shops migrated to a more recent version of NT ?   G I believe the sheer majority are running some flavor of Win2000 -- most K typically, Win2000 Server, which is a great OS (in comparison to NT 4.0 and K Win9x line). Microsoft was going to yank support for even Win2000 last year H until there was an huge cry over it so they "clarified" (read: caved in)D their position and said that Win2000 would be supported for at leastF through 2004 or so; no later than 2005. I think they said 5 years fromK initial release, and Win2K came out about 1999, so that would mean 2004 for 
 a cut-off.  D NT 4.0 has been long dead in most places. It does still live in someJ places, here-and-there, but is a small minority. I do have a NT 4.0 systemJ at work that serves as the console for our IBM 2102-F20 ESS ("Shark") diskG system, and it's shocking to see how bare it is compared to Win2000 for J even the simplest things. (Such as adding and configuring a network card.)K But that's the *only* NT 4.0 system I have ever seen in the entire company. 5 Even our Cisco CallManagers runs Windows 2000 (Pro?).   J I don't recall a real XP-based server OS, unless you count the .NET stuff.F Right now, XP comes in a home user flavor (XP Home) and a business and power user flavor (XP Pro).    -Dan   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 16:02:41 -0500 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> ' Subject: RE: Another missed opportunity T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660E46@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Dan,  E Re: NT4 .. Actually, numerous Customers are still running NT4 SP6A as ? they are either still in the process of justifying the upgrade, B certifying their applications still run and/or planning the activeC directory for W2K (a significant amount of effort that requires the I network, security, LAN and email groups to agree on the final design).=20   F If I recall reading one of the online reviews correctly, many of theseD NT4 SP6a Cust's are now looking at a Windows 2003 Server upgrade and bypassing W2K.  H While it had a number of beta releases, W2k was formerly released in the$ mid year 2000 timeframe as I recall.   Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.! Consulting & Integration Services  Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom-     (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s)  OpenVMS DCL - the original .COM      -----Original Message-----3 From: Dan Foster [mailto:dsf@globalcrossing.net]=20  Sent: March 15, 2003 3:30 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ' Subject: Re: Another missed opportunity     8 In article <3E73738B.283AD1E0@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei( <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote: > B > When did NT 4.0 get released ? Was it between Win95 and Win 98 ?  B NT 4.0 release date was about July 31, 1996. Win95 had been on theH desktop since about November 1995 if I remember right. Prior to NT 4.0'sG release, a number of sites were running NT 3.51 for the servers. I very A vaguely recall some of the 3.51-to-4.0 "agony" at work back then.   G > Is NT 4.0 still the most popular NT version in production today or=20 I > have the vast majority of MS shops migrated to a more recent version=20 	 > of NT ?   G I believe the sheer majority are running some flavor of Win2000 -- most G typically, Win2000 Server, which is a great OS (in comparison to NT 4.0 E and Win9x line). Microsoft was going to yank support for even Win2000 H last year until there was an huge cry over it so they "clarified" (read:H caved in) their position and said that Win2000 would be supported for atG least through 2004 or so; no later than 2005. I think they said 5 years G from initial release, and Win2K came out about 1999, so that would mean  2004 for a cut-off.   D NT 4.0 has been long dead in most places. It does still live in someC places, here-and-there, but is a small minority. I do have a NT 4.0 B system at work that serves as the console for our IBM 2102-F20 ESSG ("Shark") disk system, and it's shocking to see how bare it is compared H to Win2000 for even the simplest things. (Such as adding and configuringH a network card.) But that's the *only* NT 4.0 system I have ever seen inA the entire company. Even our Cisco CallManagers runs Windows 2000  (Pro?).   C I don't recall a real XP-based server OS, unless you count the .NET @ stuff. Right now, XP comes in a home user flavor (XP Home) and a( business and power user flavor (XP Pro).   -Dan   ------------------------------   Date: 15 Mar 03 22:52:04 +0100) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) ' Subject: Re: Another missed opportunity ) Message-ID: <Mj8dYBwiVpr3@elias.decus.ch>   b In article <3E73738B.283AD1E0@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes: > "Main, Kerry" wrote: >>   >> JF: >>   >> Re: Windows NT4 Support: A >> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=fh;[ln];lifean3  > N > Interesting that netscape doesn't regonzise the above URL in it entirety, itH > stops at the ";". Will have to check to see if the semi colon is valid; > character in a URL. It probably should have been escaped.  >   + It took me straight there on Netscape 3.03.     > B > When did NT 4.0 get released ? Was it between Win95 and Win 98 ? >   D I believe it was released in late 1996. I got my copy in early 1997,( at just about the time SP1 was released.   J > Is there any table that shows what percentage of NT shops are using what > version ?  > M > Is VT 4.0 still the most popular NT version in production today or have the E > vast majority of MS shops migrated to a more recent version of NT ? P > I.E. what percentage are at NT 4.0, Windows 2000 and Windows XP ? (s Xp out in > serder "edition"?) >   A I suspect quite a few are still using NT, but have no idea of the  percentages.  N > If the vast majority are still at NT 4.0, then pulling support from it wouldI > be a bad move. And it shoudl send Microsoft a pretty clear message that M > customers are sick and tired of all those major upgrades that cause lots of 5 > headaches without providing much more productivity.      --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 21:20:07 GMT 9 From: Alan Adams <alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk> ' Subject: Re: Another missed opportunity ? Message-ID: <dd30c1d34b.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>   - In message <3E734E9C.63C2658@vl.videotron.ca> ;           JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote:    > Paul Sture wrote: H >  None of us will. It Swissair went into liquidation and stopped flying > > a year ago.  >  > H > Not quite 100% correct when one is pedantic. Swissair set its CrossairM > subsidiary "free", then Swissair went out of business, then Crossair bought P > certain assets from Swissair and started to operate on former Swissair routes. > L > So Swiss has its roots in Crossair which was a subsidiary of Swissair. not7 > sure if they will survive Bush Jr's invasion of Iraq.  > I > Coming back to the air traffic control system, was this upgrade (well I P > wouldn't consider a move to NT an "upgrade") prompted by the mid-air collisionL > last year ? If the media started to point fingers are the ATC system usingH > antiquated equipment, I can see the pressure to upgrade, and in such aF > context, they woudl be forced to buy something which "LOOKS" modern. > N > At least they should have gone to Sun. Somehow, NT isn't up to snuff when itM > comes to real time, life critical systems. Announcinmg you will trust a toy N > operating system to control air traffic with thousands of lives depending on" > some wintel box is pretty scary.  K Flying out of Heathrow the other day I noticed about half of the departures G screens were off or displaying rubbish. Shortly afterwards the Window95 F startup was being displayed. I commented at the time that I hoped they? weren't using it for anything important. Now it seems they are.    Alan     --  
 Alan Adams& alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk http://www.nckc.org.uk/    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 02:12:03 GMT + From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (leslie) ' Subject: Re: Another missed opportunity 9 Message-ID: <T3Rca.23151$eb.511014@twister.austin.rr.com>   " John Smith (a@nonymous.com) wrote: : 0 : Air traffic control and Windows????!!!! Yikes!8 : Gives a whole new meaning to The Blue Screen of Death. :   J I wonder how often Carly's Grumman Gulfstream IV flies in Swiss airspace ?   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Mar 2003 03:49:31 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>: Subject: Re: DECnet SERVICE CIRCUIT for multiple e-devices- Message-ID: <87n0jwbeb8.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   3 "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:    > brandon@dalsemi.com wrote:
 > > [snip]	 > > NODE1  > >   EWA-1             on	 > > NODE2  > >   EWA-0             on	 > > NODE3  > >   EWA-0             on > > / > > Using the DCL commands will muck things up:  > > * > > NCP> SET NODE nodename ADDRESS address, > >          SERVICE CIRCUIT ethernet-device. > >          HARDWARE ADDRESS ethernet-address) > >          LOAD FILE file specification  > > # > > Any ideas how to overcome this?  > H > From the "little known MOP facts" file (based on my exprience thru and( > including V5.5-2, VERY unofficial))...   B > If a device requesting a load asks for a specific file, any nodeF > receiving that request with service enabled on the receiving circuitD > can/will attempt to service the request. All that's needed is thatD > the requested file be present in the MOM$SYSTEM path (or maybe its > MOM$LOAD, I forget).   There are 3 mop load requests:   Give me a diagnostic load  Give me a system load = Give me BLURG  (for the suitable value of BLURG for your box)   F About the only one I can think of that uses either of the first two is@ VMS cluster boots. They ask for a system image, and get the loadC assistant. All terminal servers ::blink, whoa!!:: except 5x0s!! use @ a named file load. DS500s and 550s are configured by munging theB system image and patching in addresses, names, all that fun stuff.@ So you need to have an image per server, and NCP has to have the E-net address - file mapping.   D You do not need to specify the serv circ in the node definition, but@ if you have several LAN interfaces, you will need to specify theE right one in the command.  For loads, it all happens on the circ that " has the request, no action needed.   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 23:09:58 GMT 9 From: Alan Adams <alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk> 9 Subject: Re: DECserver 90M with GS80/160/320 SMC Question ? Message-ID: <946947d34b.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>   7 In message <7ng47v8rjh7bhqprp5hf5dtpqkesnv6g7u@4ax.com> G           Rick Millhollin <rickm.remove-this@oregon.uoregon.edu> wrote:   G > We have a couple of AlphaServer GS80s in our VMScluster, one of which F > came with a System Management Console PC and software that we didn't; > use because we had an existing Heroix RoboCentral console C > infrastructure in place.  The SMC came with a "management console E > concentrator" terminal server  that is actually a DECserver 90M.  I G > would now like to use that box along with serveral other 90Ms we have H > as a terminal server for RoboCentral.  I notice that the new 90M has aE > dial switch and two ports of some kind on the back that my old ones 
 > don't have.   J This sounds like a standard Multistack stack adapter (SWX?? part number?).E If so, it's a 19" wide tray that the 90M plugs into. The adapter will F operate in conjunction with others to form a single managed stack. TheE Ethernet like ports are for the management bus, the switch is used to L provide each of the (up to 16) units with a unique address on the management bus.`                                                                                                 A If you are not using the stack manager, you can ignore all of it.   H I'm slightly more puzzled anbout the other units, but I suspect they areJ standalone units, with individual mains power supplies. There is a clip-onJ rear cover which replaces the stack adapter, and a power supply unit whichH plugs into the back, slightly larger than the one contained in the stack adapter.  H If that's the case, interconnect the units with thinwire, and ignore the switches and management ports.  9   No hardware documentation came with the 90M to describe D > these.  The SMC documentation has a picture that shows setting theF > dial to "management agent", but has no description of the other dialG > positions in general or the ports that look like ethernet.  I want to = > set this 90M up like a "normal" old 90M, so need the switch G > documentation.  Any suggestions on where I could find such?  HP Field G > Service has looked via thier resources, but can only find the old 90M A > manual I already have.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.   > Thanks...  >  > 3 > Rick Millhollin, Director of Computing Facilities B > University of Oregon Computing Center, Eugene, Oregon 97403-12122 > Phone: (541)346-1730  FAX: (541)346-6438 or 4397E > E-mail: rickm123@oregon456.uoregon789.edu (remove anti-spam digits)    --  
 Alan Adams& alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk http://www.nckc.org.uk/    ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 22:56:32 +0000 (UTC) 3 From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> M Subject: Disbelief! (Was: Re: newbie: connect to vms from win2k using decnet) 1 Message-ID: <b50b30$6ku$1@knossos.btinternet.com>    Hi Hans,  ; >So, no DECnet support for Windows 2000 and its successors. H > As you probably noticed, running a Pathworks kit on W2k does not yield > useful results.   L I'm probably just being a bit slow on the uptake but can you (or anyone elseH for that matter) just confirm my interpretation of the above statements.H That is, there is no DECnet existing, or planned, for Windows2000, 2003, .NET and so on. . .    Not even DECnet over IP?  K This is bloody outrageous! Who is the product manager? Was Pathworks one of H those that was outsourced to EDS? How can HP continue to poor good moneyH after bad into shit like RTR and Bridgeworks (that bring in no money for3 VMS) and yet leave DECnet out to twist in the wind?    Regards Richard Maher   + Hans Vlems <hvlems@iae.nl> wrote in message 0 news:b4la7i$21pb1p$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de... > 1 > "arik" <riper56@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht 9 > news:185469fe.0303091219.30123db1@posting.google.com... J > > well, this is what i need to do, but I dont know exactly how to do it.A > > I from my searching I saw somethings that are not clear to me * > > what is PathWork, how does it help me?! > > can I do it without PathWork?  > > - > > I have no other option but to use decnet.  > >  > > thank you for your help. > I > There is no way to get DECnet running on Windows 2000. W2k uses the MAC J > address of an installed network interface for all kinds of purposes. One ofI > them is licensing. DECnet happens to ovewrite that MAC address with its  own H > and that means that you, as a Microsoft customer, are able to use that sameL > license on a different system, provided that that system will use the sameL > DECnet address. So, no DECnet support for Windows 2000 and its successors.H > As you probably noticed, running a Pathworks kit on W2k does not yield > useful results.  > L > There is DECnet for NT but it is a port from a unix implementation (SCO ?)6 > and is limited to 255 concurrent clients for shares. >  > Hans >    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 21:26:29 -0500 5 From: "Brad McCusker" <brad.mccuskerNosp@Mcompaq.com> Q Subject: Re: Disbelief! (Was: Re: newbie: connect to vms from win2k using decnet) / Message-ID: <v77o6od7fv9o5c@corp.supernews.com>   > "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> wrote in message+ news:b50b30$6ku$1@knossos.btinternet.com... 
 > Hi Hans, > = > >So, no DECnet support for Windows 2000 and its successors. J > > As you probably noticed, running a Pathworks kit on W2k does not yield > > useful results.  > I > I'm probably just being a bit slow on the uptake but can you (or anyone  elseJ > for that matter) just confirm my interpretation of the above statements.J > That is, there is no DECnet existing, or planned, for Windows2000, 2003, > .NET and so on. . .  >   J I believe Hans is mistaken.  See my response to Hans post, in this thread.I In short, reference http://h71000.www7.hp.com/pathworks32/latestinfo.html  and 3 http://h18000.www1.hp.com/info/SP5633/SP5633pf.pdf. J for what seems to be pretty clear indication that DECnet remains supported# on all the latest Windows versions.   L (Same discalimer as the other post, my background is server engineering, not& client engineering.  I maybe clueless)   > Not even DECnet over IP?  K I believe that is also supported, I know it is from the VMS side of things, - I thing the SPD says it is on the client too.  > 8 > This is bloody outrageous! Who is the product manager?   Lawrence Woodcome at HP dot com    >Was Pathworks one of # > those that was outsourced to EDS?    No.   ' >How can HP continue to poor good money J > after bad into shit like RTR and Bridgeworks (that bring in no money for5 > VMS) and yet leave DECnet out to twist in the wind?    I don't think they did.  >  > Regards Richard Maher  >    Regards   
 Brad McCusker  OpenVMS Engineering  Hewlett-Packard Company  Nashua, NH USA  - > Hans Vlems <hvlems@iae.nl> wrote in message 2 > news:b4la7i$21pb1p$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de... > > 3 > > "arik" <riper56@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht ; > > news:185469fe.0303091219.30123db1@posting.google.com... L > > > well, this is what i need to do, but I dont know exactly how to do it.C > > > I from my searching I saw somethings that are not clear to me , > > > what is PathWork, how does it help me?# > > > can I do it without PathWork?  > > > / > > > I have no other option but to use decnet.  > > >  > > > thank you for your help. > > K > > There is no way to get DECnet running on Windows 2000. W2k uses the MAC L > > address of an installed network interface for all kinds of purposes. One > ofK > > them is licensing. DECnet happens to ovewrite that MAC address with its  > own J > > and that means that you, as a Microsoft customer, are able to use that > sameI > > license on a different system, provided that that system will use the  sameB > > DECnet address. So, no DECnet support for Windows 2000 and its successors. J > > As you probably noticed, running a Pathworks kit on W2k does not yield > > useful results.  > > K > > There is DECnet for NT but it is a port from a unix implementation (SCO  ?)8 > > and is limited to 255 concurrent clients for shares. > >  > > Hans > >  >  >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 21:48:57 -0500 5 From: "Brad McCusker" <brad.mccuskerNosp@Mcompaq.com> E Subject: Re: External Authentication and Windows2000 Active Directory / Message-ID: <v77pgt1ld39iae@corp.supernews.com>    Its been a while... 6 "Bart Zorn" <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl> wrote in message0 news:3e634fcf$0$49104$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl... > Brad McCusker wrote: > > I > > Have you verified that the trust itself is working?  If so, then, Ext  Auth > > should work. > & > No, I don't know how to verify that.   ADMIN SHO TRUST   ; Try adding permission on the VMS server for a trusted user.   L Actually, you really need to make sure the trust is working, and you have itF set up in the right direction.  You were in my seminar back in Vienna,J weren't you?  I think we covered trusts quite a bit, do you still have theJ book?  (shameless plug - I'm offering an updated seminar in Amsterdam this May, seeH http://www.compaqusers.org/site/cms/contentViewArticle.asp?article=1215)  " >There was a side effect, however,J > which makes me think that at least something worked (although aversely).G > User who have a userid with the same name in both domains (which were I > unrelated before I established the trust) started to get authentication E > problems which we previously did not have. We deleted the trust and * > those problems disappeared (I think...).  J This would lead me to thing the trust was working, at least to some extentH (maybe set up in the wrong direction?).  When the username and passwordsL match, access to remote domains works, as long as a trust doesn't exist.  AsJ soon as you add the trust, it breaks.  Without the trust, it is consideredH to be the local user, but, with the trust, it considers the access to be from the remote user.   H Let us know how you made out - I assume you have ahd opportunity to test& some more since this note was written?  
 Brad McCusker  OpenVMS    ------------------------------   Date: 15 Mar 2003 22:09:44 GMT! From: vmsquest@aol.com (VMSQuest) 1 Subject: Getting AlphaStation onto Cable Internet 9 Message-ID: <20030315170944.00822.00000119@mb-ch.aol.com>    The Environment:   AlphaStation 200 4/100 64 MB 	 VMS 7.2-1  TCP/IP Service 5.0A   + 1 Siemens SpeedStream 2614 Cable/DSL Router 
 Reporting: INTERNET WAN IP:         68.192.148.150 Subnet Mask:    255.255.240.0  Gateway IP:     68.192.144.1 DNS:            167.206.3.201  Secondary DNS:  167.206.112.138   SPEEDSTREAM ROUTER  IP Address:     192.168.254.254  Subnet Mask:    255.255.255.0  DHCP Server:    Enabled  NAT:            Enabled  Firewall:       Enabled   ; 2 PCs sharing one Cable Internet connection via the router.   	 The Hope:   * Cable Internet access for the AlphaStation   The Request:  D Advice, suggestions, answers, wisdom, knowledge regarding the properN configuration of the TCP/IP Services and/or the Siemens Router, or pointers to same.   K Some results of previous attempts yield (apologies for the bad formatting):    TCPIP> SHOW ROUTE   * Type           Destination         Gateway  2 DN             0.0.0.0             192.168.254.252, AH             127.0.0.1           127.0.0.12 DN             192.168.254.0/24    192.168.254.252   TCPIP> SHOW INTERFACE   D                 IP_Addr          Network Mask                PacketsL                                                        Receive    Send   MTUL WE0          192.168.254.252     255.255.255.0          11         19   1500K LO0          127.0.0.1           255.0.0.0               8          8     0   M All of which allows me to ping the router from the Alpha, but all attempts to + get past it result in failure (ping hangs).   O You may have guessed by now that my TCP/IP skills are weak, so any and all help  will be greatly appreciated.  	 Much TIA.    VMSQuest   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 22:42:26 +0000 + From: John Laird <john@laird-towers.org.uk> 5 Subject: Re: Getting AlphaStation onto Cable Internet 8 Message-ID: <4ja77vkcbhecd5fb7epg5enicn0qkbg9v0@4ax.com>  ? On 15 Mar 2003 22:09:44 GMT, vmsquest@aol.com (VMSQuest) wrote:    >TCPIP> SHOW ROUTE > + >Type           Destination         Gateway  > 3 >DN             0.0.0.0             192.168.254.252   L The gateway for 0.0.0.0 (the default gateway) should be your router address,J not the address of your local IP interface.  You have told your Alpha thatA the world is connected to its LAN board, and this is not true :-)   ; $ TCPIP SET ROUTE/DEFAULT/GATEWAY=192.168.254.254/PERMANENT   I will correct this.  Or run the config.com file, core components, routing, . second question refers to the default gateway.     	John    ------------------------------   Date: 15 Mar 03 23:45:45 +0100) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) 5 Subject: Re: Getting AlphaStation onto Cable Internet ) Message-ID: <kwA4KQg2PoRs@elias.decus.ch>   ] In article <20030315170944.00822.00000119@mb-ch.aol.com>, vmsquest@aol.com (VMSQuest) writes:  > The Environment: >  > AlphaStation 200 4/100 > 64 MB  > VMS 7.2-1  > TCP/IP Service 5.0A  > - > 1 Siemens SpeedStream 2614 Cable/DSL Router  > Reporting:
 > INTERNET  > WAN IP:         68.192.148.150 > Subnet Mask:    255.255.240.0  > Gateway IP:     68.192.144.1 > DNS:            167.206.3.201 ! > Secondary DNS:  167.206.112.138  >  SPEEDSTREAM ROUTER ! > IP Address:     192.168.254.254  > Subnet Mask:    255.255.255.0  > DHCP Server:    Enabled  > NAT:            Enabled  > Firewall:       Enabled  > = > 2 PCs sharing one Cable Internet connection via the router.  >  > The Hope:  > , > Cable Internet access for the AlphaStation >  > The Request: > F > Advice, suggestions, answers, wisdom, knowledge regarding the properP > configuration of the TCP/IP Services and/or the Siemens Router, or pointers to > same.  > M > Some results of previous attempts yield (apologies for the bad formatting):  >  > TCPIP> SHOW ROUTE  > , > Type           Destination         Gateway > 4 > DN             0.0.0.0             192.168.254.252. > AH             127.0.0.1           127.0.0.14 > DN             192.168.254.0/24    192.168.254.252 >  > TCPIP> SHOW INTERFACE  > F >                 IP_Addr          Network Mask                PacketsN >                                                        Receive    Send   MTUN > WE0          192.168.254.252     255.255.255.0          11         19   1500M > LO0          127.0.0.1           255.0.0.0               8          8     0  >   I Here you are defining the gateway (SHOW ROUTE display) as 192.168.254.252 A but that's the IP address of your Alpha (SHOW INTERFACE display).   = You need to set the Gateway to be the address of your router   192.168.254.254    O > All of which allows me to ping the router from the Alpha, but all attempts to - > get past it result in failure (ping hangs).  > Q > You may have guessed by now that my TCP/IP skills are weak, so any and all help  > will be greatly appreciated. >   A No problem. I have a couple of log files demonstrating the setup:    Configuring the lot from menus:   0 http://www.sture.homeip.net/vms/tcpip_config.txt  ? Base configuration via the menus, gateway stuff added via TCPIP A DCL commands, suitable for configuring the gateway on an existing  LAN:- http://localhost/vms/tcpip_config_partial.txt    --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------   Date: 15 Mar 03 23:51:10 +0100) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) 5 Subject: Re: Getting AlphaStation onto Cable Internet ) Message-ID: <00RDsG$lvNqN@elias.decus.ch>   U In article <kwA4KQg2PoRs@elias.decus.ch>, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) writes: _ > In article <20030315170944.00822.00000119@mb-ch.aol.com>, vmsquest@aol.com (VMSQuest) writes:  >> The Environment:  >>   >> AlphaStation 200 4/100  >> 64 MB >> VMS 7.2-1 >> TCP/IP Service 5.0A >>  . >> 1 Siemens SpeedStream 2614 Cable/DSL Router
 >> Reporting:  >> INTERNET ! >> WAN IP:         68.192.148.150   >> Subnet Mask:    255.255.240.0 >> Gateway IP:     68.192.144.1   >> DNS:            167.206.3.201" >> Secondary DNS:  167.206.112.138 >>  SPEEDSTREAM ROUTER" >> IP Address:     192.168.254.254  >> Subnet Mask:    255.255.255.0 >> DHCP Server:    Enabled >> NAT:            Enabled >> Firewall:       Enabled >>  > >> 2 PCs sharing one Cable Internet connection via the router. >>   >> The Hope: >>  - >> Cable Internet access for the AlphaStation  >>   >> The Request:  >>  G >> Advice, suggestions, answers, wisdom, knowledge regarding the proper Q >> configuration of the TCP/IP Services and/or the Siemens Router, or pointers to  >> same. >>  N >> Some results of previous attempts yield (apologies for the bad formatting): >>   >> TCPIP> SHOW ROUTE >>  - >> Type           Destination         Gateway  >>  5 >> DN             0.0.0.0             192.168.254.252 / >> AH             127.0.0.1           127.0.0.1 5 >> DN             192.168.254.0/24    192.168.254.252  >>   >> TCPIP> SHOW INTERFACE >>  G >>                 IP_Addr          Network Mask                Packets O >>                                                        Receive    Send   MTU O >> WE0          192.168.254.252     255.255.255.0          11         19   1500 N >> LO0          127.0.0.1           255.0.0.0               8          8     0 >> > K > Here you are defining the gateway (SHOW ROUTE display) as 192.168.254.252sC > but that's the IP address of your Alpha (SHOW INTERFACE display).p > ? > You need to set the Gateway to be the address of your router s > 192.168.254.254/ >  2P >> All of which allows me to ping the router from the Alpha, but all attempts to. >> get past it result in failure (ping hangs). >> rR >> You may have guessed by now that my TCP/IP skills are weak, so any and all help >> will be greatly appreciated.  >> n > C > No problem. I have a couple of log files demonstrating the setup:n > ! > Configuring the lot from menus:S > 2 > http://www.sture.homeip.net/vms/tcpip_config.txt > A > Base configuration via the menus, gateway stuff added via TCPIPtC > DCL commands, suitable for configuring the gateway on an existing  > LAN:/ > http://localhost/vms/tcpip_config_partial.txto            ^^^^^^^^^  C Should read ttp://www.sture.homeip.net/vms/tcpip_config_partial.txt      >  > -- e > Paul Sture -- r   --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 01:01:54 GMTe2 From: "news.verizon.net" <clair.grant@verizon.net>, Subject: Re: I Have Seen The IA64 Future !!!8 Message-ID: <62Qca.60198$gi1.17911@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>   RE: Slow booting  H We are using a floppy on the i2000 because we decided to focus the FAT32K container file development work on the rx2600. We hard wired the i2000 codeeJ to look to the floppy or the internal SCSI disk for the FAT files. The twoG files you saw on the i2000 floppy will be on the VMS system disk in thet' FAT32 container file in future systems.d  L Using the floppy does contribute to the slowness of booting the i2000 but itG has nothing to do with the content, only accessing the media. As to anynH Alpha SRM-like functions we want to have, we will put them in either theL boot manager or in EFI applications. (The IA64 boot architecture is designedL so that you can add whatever you want to it.) These get executed in the boot% environment prior to running SYSBOOT.-   Clair Grant-        + "Dirk Munk" <munk@home.nl> wrote in message1, news:b4usre$kis$1@news2.tilbu1.nb.home.nl...
 > Well.... >lC > I was at the Cebit in Hannover yesterday and saw VMS on Itanic. I  witnessed itH > boot, and they had one commandfile that did a show device and show sys etc.L > doing anything else would most likely crash the system. Nothing wrong with that,e7 > and very understandable in this stage of development.  >iJ > Booting was very slow, because there was a floppy disk involved. Why you may I > ask. Well on the alpha we are blessed with a wonderful bios, sorry, SRM  console.L > That has been a matter of discussion in this group before, how is HP going toI > implement that on the IA64. The answer is they are not, at least not int thisL > shape. It seems the SRM console (successor) will be a part on the VMS bootJ > routine, so to access it means a conversational boot and doing things in> > sysboot. And it this stage the "SRM console" is on a floppy. >fL > The problem seems to be that Intel has no provisions for a proper SRM kind ofG > bios on the Itanic. Understandable, because no IA32 system ever had am cleverK > bios. Hwever I don't like this solution. Why not use a flashcard or a USBh memoryL > stick with a "SRM console" ? That way you would be able to put all kind ofE > hardware routines in the SRM console. Think of test routines, setupg routines forK >   hardware, flash routines for adapter cards and so on. In fact even moreoD > functionality then with the present SRM console. Now that would be
 innovative inmK > my view. If you think you have a problem with your system, you don't wantw toI > boot your VMS system disk to get a SRM console. You may run the risk ofd having a" > corrupt system disk as a result. >f8 > Well, let's see what HP engineering comes up with .... >i   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 14:33:49 -0400h0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>3 Subject: Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants / Message-ID: <3E737202.B3155F87@vl.videotron.ca>i   John Smith wrote:n > a silly example j > http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=638&ncid=762&e=5&u=/nm/20030314/en_nm/leisure_chicks_dc    F Sorry, I don't find that silly, I find it extremely sad. Criticising aL government is one of the primary requirements of a democracy. Did anyone getL called unpatriotic when they criticised Clinton for getting blow jobs in the
 oval office ?p  M In Qubec, a former prime minister who was quite old fashioned once said in aeN speech that he was "god's hand" (la main de dieu) and that he would do things,I if elected, guided by his religious upbringing. He never heard the end oflT this. Nobody was called unpatriotic for laughting/criticising that guys's statement.  L Yet, Bush Jr apparently said that he had God's approval to bomb the hell outL of Iraq, and yet nobody in the USA seems to be reacting. If the statement isN accurate, it is exactly the same type of justification that Bush's dear friend= Ossama used to justify 9-11. Any head of state that uses suchm1 excuse/terminology should be severely criticised.0  [ Yet, those who so attempt to criticise him are shut out of society and labeled unpatriotic.   L I find it ironic that the media companies are the first to claim their rightN to speech whenever the government tries to prevent them from speaking out, yetJ in these sad times, they are the ones doing the government's dirty work by3 shutting out anyone who doesn't agree with Bush Jr.1   ------------------------------   Date: 15 Mar 2003 22:37:54 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)3 Subject: Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 6 Message-ID: <b50a01$244fkm$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>  / In article <3E73618A.6B4EA79A@vl.videotron.ca>,i3 	JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes:  > Bill Gunshannon wrote:I >>   I wouldn't go there if I were you.  I pay less (usually 0) duties onIK >> British car parts from England than Canadians do (from the same company)CJ >> and my friends up there find it nearly impossible and very expensive toJ >> buy parts from American companies while I have no problem getting stuff >> from Canadian companies.  c > - > There are no duties between USA to Canada.   > G > US Postal Service regular Air Mail to Canada uses Canada Post customs5N > facilities (no customs brokerage fees from highway robbery customs brokers). > P > But US Postal Service Express Air Mail uses Purolator in Canada, and PurolatorM > doesn't have its own customs brokerage capability and sends the packages to L > the BPP Highway Robbery customs brokers who will send you a random invoiceO > laden with various services charges that could come to near $50 on top of then > 7% tax for the import.  H Ummmm.... Wait a minute here.  In the first line you state catagorically: that there are no duties on goods from the US "TO" Canada.C And nont only complain about customs brokers cheating Canadians buttG claim this is on top of the 7% import tax.  Which is it??   Never mind.rG I already know that Canadian import taxes make buying parts for classichE British cars from US parts houses nearly unaffordable.  And yet, whenaC I made an order from MacGregor up there, no taxes at all.  (Being aeI member of a Car Club out of Kingston Ontario, I know of what I speak. :-)    > O > UPS, DHL, Airborne, Purolator/Express-Mail should be avoided at all cost whenoO > shipping stuff to Canada because the poor customer gets a very bad invoice in05 > the mail weeks after the package has been received.e  F Why would this be if, as you stated above, there are no import duties?   bill   -- oJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 21:06:32 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>3 Subject: Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrantsc/ Message-ID: <3E73CDFA.5ADEA08B@vl.videotron.ca>f   Bill Gunshannon wrote:J > Ummmm.... Wait a minute here.  In the first line you state catagorically< > that there are no duties on goods from the US "TO" Canada.E > And nont only complain about customs brokers cheating Canadians buta- > claim this is on top of the 7% import tax.    I I didn't say "import" tax. It is the GST tax applied to both imported anda local products/services.   (GST = Goods and Services Tax).-  M So when products enter canada from the USA, the standard sales tax is levied.SP Kept those bloody bloodsucking customs brokerage firms in business unfortunatly.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 06:29:45 GMTf  From: CJT <cheljuba@prodigy.net>3 Subject: Re: National Moratorium to Appease TyrantsR* Message-ID: <3E7419D7.9070400@prodigy.net>   JF Mezei wrote:l > David Webb wrote:i > M >>Shouldn't the UN be in control of any immediate reconstruction efforts witheO >>authority then passing to an interim regime until a democratic government can O >>be elected or has the US now definitely decided that it will set itself up asr! >>the interim government of Iraq.  >  > O > Why should the UN pay for the damage done by a rogue USA government ? The USAtJ > should pay the bill for destroying, then rebuilding Iraq if it isists on > acting without UN approval.  > I > A criminal country is expected to pay for the damages it causes anothero. > country. I think it is called "reparations". > O > However, I would hope that reconstruction would be done by Iraqi companies tooH > help the local economy rebuild. If the USA government jst brings in USN > contractors to "deposit" new infrastructure then leave, I think it is asking# > for big trouble in the long term.  > P > The interesting question then becomes: what will be the process whereby the UNP > will get proof that banned weapons have all been destroyed and trade sanctionsM > can be lifted against Iraq ? As long as the inspectors don't complete theiraJ > work, I don,t think that the UN can be in a position to lift sanctions.  > M > Some overgrown teenagers in military uniforms don't quite have the training0P > and expertise to do inspections and determine the purpose of a certain machineN > (civilian, dual use or military, and if military/dual use, whether it can beL > used to build banned stuff, as well as the nuclear experts who "sniff" the/ > terrain for traces of nuclear activities etc.   I Once the US takes custody of any WMDs found, what assures that they will  1 be destroyed?  Will the US submit to inspections?    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 00:49:03 GMTs From: dittman@dittman.netr; Subject: Re: newbie: connect to vms from win2k using decnets6 Message-ID: <3SPca.8000$IM3.7528@nwrddc03.gnilink.net>  4 Brad McCusker <brad.mccuskerNosp@mcompaq.com> wrote:N > That is just client side software, and, pretty old at that.  It doesn't evenL > include the license.  If you have access to the Quarterly Layered Produict1 > CD-ROM, you get the latest PATWORKS-32 in that.   < The latest version of PW32 I've received in the SPL is V7.2./ I was told V7.3 had to be purchased separately.t -- i Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.nete   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 21:19:35 -0500o5 From: "Brad McCusker" <brad.mccuskerNosp@Mcompaq.com>e; Subject: Re: newbie: connect to vms from win2k using decnet / Message-ID: <v77npsog3gkc0b@corp.supernews.com>A  - "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> wrote in messaget0 news:b4la7i$21pb1p$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de... >e <SNIP> > I > There is no way to get DECnet running on Windows 2000. W2k uses the MACnJ > address of an installed network interface for all kinds of purposes. One ofI > them is licensing. DECnet happens to ovewrite that MAC address with its  owniH > and that means that you, as a Microsoft customer, are able to use that sameL > license on a different system, provided that that system will use the sameL > DECnet address. So, no DECnet support for Windows 2000 and its successors.H > As you probably noticed, running a Pathworks kit on W2k does not yield > useful results.e >p  J I don't believe this is correct, or, maybe I am misunderstanding somethingC (which is quite possible considering I have never worked as part of?L PATHWORKS 32 Engineering, aka "client engineering" - I've always been on the
 server side).o  + Reference these pages for more information:s9 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/pathworks32/latestinfo.html andM3 http://h18000.www1.hp.com/info/SP5633/SP5633pf.pdf.e  I Lots of discussion of DECnet, and, it sure seems like full support to me.e9 On all modern Windows clients, including Win2K and WinXP.a  D The was a problem with support for NetBIOS over DECnet on Win2K withG PATHWORKS-32 V7.2, but even that is corrected now in PATHWORKS-32 V7.3.WI (This was the problem that prevented file and print services from working  over DECnet on Win2K)u  K I would really like to know if I am mis-reading something either in the webS, site and SPD, or, in what Hans Vlems wrote??  
 Brad McCuskert OpenVMS Engineering  Hewlett-Packard Companyc Nashua, NH USA   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Mar 2003 03:31:22 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> Subject: Re: Numeric usernames- Message-ID: <87r898bf5h.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   < "Barratt, Chris (FMC)" <Chris.Barratt@fmc.sa.gov.au> writes:  F > Thanks to all who replied.  I am not in favour of numeric usernames,D > but there is a chance we may be forced into using them.  From yourE > replies, it would seem it can be done, but with some workarounds or C > unforseen problems likely.  If I cannot avert the move to numerict@ > usernames, I guess the next step is to try it out and see what
 > happens.  C Can't you ship the idiot who came up with this to a suitable place?M M$ comes to mind...   B You do realize you will get zillions of audit password fail errors> from people who transpose digits? Lots of CORRECT passwords...  < I can think of no reason why there needs to be ANY rules for9 usernames, other than first in gets it. Any one have any?    --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.c@                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 23:24:46 GMT 9 From: Alan Adams <alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>  Subject: Re: Numeric usernames? Message-ID: <48c448d34b.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>-  2 In message <pvaa+UBBI5dI@eisner.encompasserve.org>8           Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote:  } > In article <825e32d34b.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>, Alan Adams <alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk> writes:: > F > > Having a pair of accounts share a UIC, and therefore reduced auditP > > capability was, I still think, the most elegant solution to a vendor-defined > > problem. > - > What is the reduction in audit capability ?o > - > VMS Auditing is based on Username, not UIC. H > That is the whole reason sharing of UICs is sometime quite acceptable.  D OK I was being sloppy. Various things, like Accounting records, fileK ownerships, SHOW SYSTEM/FULL display or record UIC, and UIC translated backaJ to identifier. This makes auditing a mistake harder. I wasn't specifically referring to the Audit utility.l   -- i
 Alan Adams& alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk http://www.nckc.org.uk/e   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Mar 2003 20:38:39 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)o Subject: Re: Old is new 3 Message-ID: <k$4spJcntuBu@eisner.encompasserve.org>r  k In article <3E72ABB9.10507@digitalsynergyinc.com>, Jeffrey Coffield <jeffrey@digitalsynergyinc.com> writes:u > http://www-124.ibm.com/dlm/n  8 Please don't waste our time by posting undescribed URLs.  4 Others - It is a distributed lock manager for Linux.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 22:42:59 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> Subject: Re: Old is new / Message-ID: <3E73E48E.16E96F5E@vl.videotron.ca>    Larry Kilgallen wrote: > > http://www-124.ibm.com/dlm/o > : > Please don't waste our time by posting undescribed URLs. > 6 > Others - It is a distributed lock manager for Linux.  K Please don't complain when you have some people killfiled and you don't seen9 the original messages where the URLs have been described.s   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 14:15:55 -0500 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>oM Subject: RE: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for MarvelandhT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660E45@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>  	 Andrew ..d  % - Some apps are suited for clustering & - Some apps are suited for SMP systems@ - Some apps are suited for both large SMP systems AND clustering  % Sigh .. but you knew this already.=20    Time to move on...   Regards   
 Kerry Main Solutions Architectk Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.! Consulting & Integration ServicesI Voice: 613-592-4660e Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com     -----Original Message-----' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancyi1 [mailto:Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com]=20- Sent: March 12, 2003 7:34 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com C Subject: Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for H Marveland Alpha Retain Trust Alpha Retain Trust Alpha Retain Trust AlphaE Retain Trust Alpha Retain Trust Alpha Retain Trust Alpha Retain Trust3% Alpha Retain Trust Alpha Retain TrustM         Main, Kerry wrote:	 > Andrew,u >=20H > Sigh .. One more time - if you do not agree with the TPC rules, get=20H > the TPC Council to change them. Don't continue bringing up this old=20? > argument which has been discussed a few hundred times before.a >=20H > The TPC says the GS benchmark is fine. You disagree. Fine - so have=20% > Sun lobby to get the rules changed.  >=20  G Thats not the point and you know it. The TPC-C rules don't preclude thetC cluster in a box config or the shared nothing config because no one F expected them to be used when the origional run rules were written andH given TPC-C's majority voting rules and the fact that Compaq, HP and IBMF have all sunk substantial sums on money into producing results of this8 type it is unlikely that rule changes are in the offing.  6 None of this alters the fact that the cluster in a box6 config or the shared nothing configs now present a set3 of TPC-C results that have no use in the real worlde3 because very few real world apps are as amenable to  this kind of setup as TPC-C.  ; That was not the origional intention when TPC-C was written.6 to be a tool for measuring the relative performance of- systems running a set of simple OLTP queries.m  C Compaq was the first vendor to come out with a shared nothing TPC-ChG result and this pioneering approach has helped end TPC-C's relevance as  an OLTP benchmark.   Regardss Andrew Harrison   	 > Regards  >=20 >=20 > Kerry Main > Senior ConsultantC > Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.# > Consulting & Integration Servicesl > Voice: 613-592-4660o > Fax   : 613-591-4477 > Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom/ >     (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s)t! > OpenVMS DCL - the original .COM, >=20 > -----Original Message-----, > From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy=200 > [mailto:Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com] > Sent: March 10, 2003 10:49 AMu > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComsH > Subject: Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for=20D > Marveland Alpha Retain Trust Alpha Retain Trust Alpha Retain Trust >=20 >=20H > Kerry only you could inject a GS1280 performance benchmark result into  G > a discusion about Compaq/HP's inability to justify the performance=20a% > claims they made for the GS160/320.B >=20; > And trust you to try to reintroduce the TPC-C results fori6 > the GS320 which if you hadn't forgotten are actually9 > evidence for the prosecution not the defense since they 3 > prove that there is a big NUMA performance issue.n >=207 > Had you forgotten that you used a cluster in a box ton > get decent performance.p >=205 > And had yopu also forgotten that this is one of thel4 > reasons why Sun doesn't do TPC-C, because the kind4 > of tuning method used by indevidual companies such> > as Compaq has degrade the value of the benchmark as a whole. >=20< > You are as always tremendous value but not to your allies. >=20	 > Regardse > Andrew Harrisoni > Main, Kerry wrote: >=20 >>Tim, >>7 >><<< .  And I'm afraid, you just lost the argument.<<<  >>H >>If you have been lurking for awhile, then you know that no matter what >=20 >=20E >>evidence HP puts up, Andrew is going to counter with his own fud toSG >>counter it. That's fine - he's a competitor and that is his way of=20E' >>promoting his own companies products.  >>B >>Case in point - he asks where are some performance numbers. Ok -J >>http://www.sap.com/benchmark/index.asp?content=3Dhttp://www.sap.com/ben= cn >>hm >>ark/sd2tier.aspi >>F >>Sun - 1,789,000 dialog steps per hr - 72 cpu Sunfire 15K Oracle 9i -H >>Feb 10, 2003 HP - 1,393,000 dialog steps per hr - 32 cpu GS1280 Oracle >=20 >=20 >>9i - Jan 27/2003 >>D >>Given Oracle charges per cpu, I'd say the GS1280 does ok. Note theH >>dates of release. Sun felt they needed to have a bigger number, but=20+ >>needed 72 CPUs to get that bigger number.w >>E >>And even his age old argument about the GS320 - still on the top 10iH >>single system TPC, while Sun has 0 entries on the TPC list. Reference: >=20 >=20J >>http://www.tpc.org/tpcc/results/tpcc_perf_results.asp?resulttype=3Dnonc= lU >>us >>ter&version=3D5s >> >=20 >=20G >>Now, Andrew will respond with but, but, but .. And so it continues...  >>	 >>Regards@ >> >> >>Kerry Main >>Senior Consultant1 >>Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.# >>Consulting & Integration Servicesi >>Voice: 613-592-4660t >>Fax   : 613-591-4477 >>Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom/ >>    (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s) ! >>OpenVMS DCL - the original .COM  >> >>-----Original Message-----7 >>From: Tim Walls [mailto:timwa@stamford.snowgoons.com]  >>Sent: March 7, 2003 7:11 PMn >>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com H >>Subject: Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for=20 >>Marveland Alpha Retain Trust >> >>: >>In article <mqnh6vsel43b1vpf9usq1g05nhpc4oc2kb@4ax.com>,+ >>	jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com> writes:a >> >>H >>>On Fri, 07 Mar 2003 17:07:14 +0000, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy  1 >>><Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote:t >>>eI >>>Typical Andrew useless response.  Still saying that I have to prove=20oF >>>that the GS160s perform well on some apps, while he still hasn't=20J >>>proven his contention that it won't perform well for any apps.  What=20 >>>a >> >>	 >>>crock.D >> >>G >>No offence, but I speak as an independent observer who's been lurkingmJ >>in this group for quite a while...  And I'm afraid, you just lost the=20 >>argument.- >>C >>Jesus, what is it with you guys?  (That is, HP+Cpaq et al.)  As a G >>customer, I'd kinda expect you to jump at the chance to prove your=20uH >>product performs well.  This whole "if you don't think our stuff is=20J >>great it's obviously because you're ignorant - go on, prove me wrong"=20H >>attitude is just one reason why I won't be spending my company's money >=20 >=20G >>on your kit.  Which is a crying shame, because I have a great deal ofi5 >>respect for DEC and the engineers who produced VMS.o >>F >>I find it depressing because I think competition is a good thing forE >>development.  But you aren't competing - you're clinging on to a=20 G >>rapidly shrinking customer base while trying to pretend it doesn't=20iH >>matter because the people on 'your' side are somehow better, and so=20H >>more important, than everyone else on 'their' side.  But eventually=20J >>everyone on 'your' side is going to be dead, and by then it'll be too=20 >>late.s >> >><Sigh> >>
 >>Regards,A >>Tim.  (A lurker, who lurks because he respects VMS - but has no  >=20	 > respecta >=20, >>       at all for its vendor right now...) >=20 >=20 >=20   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Mar 2003 02:43:01 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>: Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants- Message-ID: <87vfykbhe2.fsf@prep.synonet.com>p  ' Don Sykes <alphase@pacbell.net> writes:t   > Arne Vajhj wrote:   > > Don Sykes wrote:  F > > >          If anything, "our masses" are exposed to other cultures3 > > > far more than those in the rest of the world.g   > > Are you sure about that ?o  E > Yes, but the difference is other cultures come to us - on their own D > accord I might add.  Of course nowadays Europe has had a migrationE > too, but they're still way behind in terms of the immigrant influx.o  E You are missing the point. The US is almost totally isolated from the H day to day affairs of the world. If it is not being bought/sold/stolen/-- invaded/bombed by the USA, it does not exist.Q  ? What is the max temp in London tommorow? Is it going to rain in-E Brussels?  Who is ahead in the NEW election for next weekend? Are ANY D of them on your TV news? Or the Toronto weather? Or radio or papers.E I have compared the TODAY show with the world weather on SBS TV here, C and SBS give a much better picture of US weather than US news does.P  F Unless you have crossed that line a few times and seen the difference,B you have no idea how much stuff just vanishes totally from view in
 the US media.    -- .< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.t@                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------   Date: 15 Mar 2003 22:53:37 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon): Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants6 Message-ID: <b50ath$24kpg7$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>  - In article <87vfykbhe2.fsf@prep.synonet.com>,7/ 	Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes:8) > Don Sykes <alphase@pacbell.net> writes:  >  >> Arne Vajhj wrote:N >  >> > Don Sykes wrote:P > G >> > >          If anything, "our masses" are exposed to other culturesd4 >> > > far more than those in the rest of the world. >  >> > Are you sure about that ? > F >> Yes, but the difference is other cultures come to us - on their ownE >> accord I might add.  Of course nowadays Europe has had a migrationpF >> too, but they're still way behind in terms of the immigrant influx. > G > You are missing the point. The US is almost totally isolated from theaJ > day to day affairs of the world. If it is not being bought/sold/stolen/-/ > invaded/bombed by the USA, it does not exist.   F MOre a matter of apathy than anything else.  Most Americans just don't care what happpens in Europe.D   > + > What is the max temp in London tommorow? n  C I couldn't tell you what the max temp right here in my home town isPF going to be tomorrow.  Nothing I can do about it one way or the other,
 so why worry..  B >                                           Is it going to rain in
 > Brussels?  u  6 It always rains in Brussels.  :-)  Or was that London?  @ >            Who is ahead in the NEW election for next weekend?   F I listen to German radio all day, every day and I don't know what yourG talking about.  I can tell you who won todays Bundesliga games, though.i  G >                                                               Are ANYl > of them on your TV news? -  E Actually, yes.  If I go looking for it.  We have German News and somer: others on DirectTV and it was on Cable back when I had it.  4 >                           Or the Toronto weather?   1 The Weather Channel and just about any newspaper.0  H >                                                    Or radio or papers.G > I have compared the TODAY show with the world weather on SBS TV here,eE > and SBS give a much better picture of US weather than US news does.:  A Ah yes, Meteorology.  And they have the nerve to call it science..   > H > Unless you have crossed that line a few times and seen the difference,D > you have no idea how much stuff just vanishes totally from view in > the US media..  N Having lived in Europe for 6 of my 30 some adult years, I know the difference.  C It is not lack of information but lack of interest.  Most Americans C just don't care what happens  in Europe.  They've never been there,nD and they are never going to be there.  Americans are not as thrilledD with the rest of the world as the rest of the world seems to be withB America.  Otherwise, there would be as many people leaving here asB there are trying to come here.  For such an evil place we sure are popular.   bill r   -- )J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 18:58:50 -0400M0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>: Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants. Message-ID: <3E73B014.35C6C8A@vl.videotron.ca>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:% .  For such an evil place we sure are2
 > popular.  K It isn't the country of the United States that is evil right now, it is itsOG government which has total lack of respect for international diplomacy, M international law, and has no problem lying to serve his propaganda machine ,yN smearing any body (UN, NATO etc) or counrtry who doesn't agree with him. Not a- way to gain respect in the rest of the world.t  G Americans SHOUDL be very concerned that their current leader is doing atG tremendous amount of damage to their country's reputation in the world.c   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 00:32:18 GMTs7 From: brad@.homeportal.2wire.net (Bradford J. Hamilton)s: Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants+ Message-ID: <mCPca.96134$F1.3064@sccrnsc04>   a In article <b50ath$24kpg7$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:c <snip>D >It is not lack of information but lack of interest.  Most AmericansD >just don't care what happens  in Europe.  They've never been there,E >and they are never going to be there.  Americans are not as thrilled E >with the rest of the world as the rest of the world seems to be withcC >America.  Otherwise, there would be as many people leaving here as3C >there are trying to come here.  For such an evil place we sure arer	 >popular.T   To get this thread back OT:a  N Replace all instances of "America" and "here" and "we" with any M$ "OS" in theL quote above.  Replace all instances of "Europe" and "there" and "the rest of the world" with *VMS.5  C It's one of the reasons I'm having trouble finding a job right now.    :-)    >  >bill  >6 >-- K >Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolves E >bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.  >University of Scranton   |EB >Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>     A _________________________________________________________________b0 Bradford J. Hamilton			"All opinions are my own"/ bMradAhamiPltSon@atMtAbi.cPoSm		"Lose the MAPS"w   ------------------------------   Date: 16 Mar 2003 00:45:49 GMT, From: bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon): Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants6 Message-ID: <b50hft$240qgm$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>  . In article <3E73B014.35C6C8A@vl.videotron.ca>,3 	JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes:. > Bill Gunshannon wrote:' > .  For such an evil place we sure are  >> popular.. > M > It isn't the country of the United States that is evil right now, it is itsTI > government which has total lack of respect for international diplomacy, O > international law, and has no problem lying to serve his propaganda machine ,SP > smearing any body (UN, NATO etc) or counrtry who doesn't agree with him. Not a/ > way to gain respect in the rest of the world.5  G And still even the complainers don't leave and the number trying to geth in just continues to rise.   > I > Americans SHOUDL be very concerned that their current leader is doing a I > tremendous amount of damage to their country's reputation in the world.t  D If we placed value on the opinions of the rest of the world we mightA care.  Many Americans actually agree with him.  I wonder how manyfA european countries are unwilling to disarm Iraq because they knowTB who the first target will be and they don't really care.i They areH willing to let it be destroyed before they will admit there is a threat.J (And it isn't going to be the US because he hasn't the delivery system for that.)  E By the way, I don't see any of those countries that no longer respectaD us publicly (or even privately, for that matter) refusing any of theD money we keep sending out or insisting that we take back all the aidF money we have sent out in the past. I guess convictions stop where the dollar sign begins._     bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   a   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Mar 2003 16:57:50 -0800. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman): Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0303151657.7cc0709b@posting.google.com>e  s spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) wrote in message news:<b096a4ee.0303142213.4372eb2a@posting.google.com>...tf > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message news:<u5qdnU3FB8BQ2fOjXTWcoA@metrocast.net>...2 > > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageE > > news:5ulba.89409$em1.6428@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...a > > >a; > > > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messagep2 > > > news:2AydnSZCEepwwPCjXTWcow@metrocast.net... > > > >o6 > > > > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageK > > > > news:jbaba.207959$UXa.39786@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...D [...]kB > And I'd like to say that I do sympathize with any Pales. who areH > willing to go for a land for peace deal with Israel. (They are not allG > bad.) I don't know how many there are, but I wouldn't be surprised ifi > it were a small number.n   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  @ I wish to apologize for this particular remark. I have no way ofF knowing just how many of the Pales. are interested in a land for peace@ deal with Israel. It only takes a few to cause a lot of trouble.1 Again, I apologize for the "small number" remark.s   Alan E. Feldmanl   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 20:22:24 -0500s* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>: Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants2 Message-ID: <xLGcnZPrmMxOTO6jXTWcog@metrocast.net>  9 "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu> wrote in messages0 news:b50hft$240qgm$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de...0 > In article <3E73B014.35C6C8A@vl.videotron.ca>,4 > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes: > > Bill Gunshannon wrote:) > > .  For such an evil place we sure are 
 > >> popular.  > >sK > > It isn't the country of the United States that is evil right now, it iso itsyK > > government which has total lack of respect for international diplomacy,aG > > international law, and has no problem lying to serve his propagandan	 machine , L > > smearing any body (UN, NATO etc) or counrtry who doesn't agree with him. Not as1 > > way to gain respect in the rest of the world.n >tI > And still even the complainers don't leave and the number trying to get  > in just continues to rise.  L So what?  A country can be a nice place to live in and still be a horrendousJ neighbor.  Or, to use another analogy, people may aspire to entry into theK upper class without aspiring to adopt the values they so often see espoused- by its members.-   >- > >aK > > Americans SHOUDL be very concerned that their current leader is doing aoK > > tremendous amount of damage to their country's reputation in the world.3 >7F > If we placed value on the opinions of the rest of the world we might0 > care.  Many Americans actually agree with him.  L Hardly reflecting well on themselves.  Many of us who choose to live here doG so in spite of them, and our current leadership, rather than because of  them.p     I wonder how manyaC > european countries are unwilling to disarm Iraq because they knowl; > who the first target will be and they don't really care.ie  G Well, you can wonder but I don't, because I see absolutely no reason toe? suspect that.  If you have any evidence to offer, please do so.o  	  They areeJ > willing to let it be destroyed before they will admit there is a threat.  G Again:  do you have a shred of evidence to that effect, or are you justmH spewing hot air?  There were no lack of supporters for the Gulf War, andH should Iraq *actually* threaten anything similar again the support would likely rematerialize.e  H Absent evidence of any imminent threat, surveillance and containment hasH satisfied the Security Council (which of course is hardly limited to theF European contingent).  While it has been somewhat lax in enforcing theJ letter of many of its resolutions, that is its prerogative, and the reasonF appears to have been lack of perceived need to do so.  I'd have had noJ problem with the U.S. attempting to get it to take a somewhat harder tack,J both to minimize any risk and to make it clear that it means what it says:G what I object to is the assumption by the U.S. that it has the right to-L usurp the role of the Security Council rather than just try to influence it.  L > (And it isn't going to be the US because he hasn't the delivery system for > that.) >IG > By the way, I don't see any of those countries that no longer respect>F > us publicly (or even privately, for that matter) refusing any of theF > money we keep sending out or insisting that we take back all the aid% > money we have sent out in the past.o  L Why should they?  I'd have no hesitation about accepting cash from someone IK detested as long as there were no strings attached:  I'd even consider it acA desirable redistribution of wealth that would reduce their futurem capabilities for harm.  #  I guess convictions stop where the  > dollar sign begins.   K I think your logic needs a tune-up:  you seem to have batted 0 for 5 above.b   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 20:49:25 -0500r* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>: Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants2 Message-ID: <fMWcne8CLvG6Re6jXTWcqQ@metrocast.net>  ; "Alan E. Feldman" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote in message 7 news:b096a4ee.0303151657.7cc0709b@posting.google.com...    ...o  B > I wish to apologize for this particular remark. I have no way ofH > knowing just how many of the Pales. are interested in a land for peaceB > deal with Israel. It only takes a few to cause a lot of trouble.3 > Again, I apologize for the "small number" remark.h  H The problems on both sides owe a great deal to such knee-jerk reactions.I Recognizing just one such reaction for what it is, even if it only occursuK after the fact, is at least a small start toward finding a better approach:hL do you think it possible that you might find more if you examined your posts with that in mind?  D Or to put it another way, if one operates on general impressions andL automatic responses rather than a real attempt to understand the goals of anJ adversary, how is it possible to determine the degree to which those goals! may be compatible with one's own?   D While the comment (as I noted) applies equally to both sides of thisK conflict, the ability to make use of greater insights is not equal.  On the.H one hand, there is a band of Palestinian extremists with at best limitedH coherence; on the other, a government which presumably can not only makeE rational decisions about what's best but can then carry them out.  So:L suicide bombings won't stop completely until *all* those inclined to performL them have seen the light, whereas a more enlightened approach on the part of Israel could begin tomorrow.   - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Mar 2003 22:05:42 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)t: Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants3 Message-ID: <95sAOf3Av6mm@eisner.encompasserve.org>p  \ In article <87vfykbhe2.fsf@prep.synonet.com>, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes:) > Don Sykes <alphase@pacbell.net> writes:G >    > A > What is the max temp in London tommorow? Is it going to rain intG > Brussels?  Who is ahead in the NEW election for next weekend? Are ANYeF > of them on your TV news? Or the Toronto weather? Or radio or papers.G > I have compared the TODAY show with the world weather on SBS TV here, E > and SBS give a much better picture of US weather than US news does.1 > H > Unless you have crossed that line a few times and seen the difference,D > you have no idea how much stuff just vanishes totally from view in > the US media.h >   ; 	So the SBS does better on World weather.  If interested in ; 	that, pick up a USA Today, the back page does a bangup jobl> 	showing temps around the world.  Or flick over to the Weather? 	Channel and wait until the International weather rolls around.m  A 	Many of us typically have 100 cable TV channels to choose from.  E 	Shoot, I sometimes watch BBC news on cable channel 3 (a PBS station)c 	.. they have the neat accents.                   			Robo   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 23:49:53 GMTh9 From: Alan Adams <alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>o) Subject: Re: Samba Missing stropts.h fileU? Message-ID: <16114bd34b.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>f  < In message <c67e4bdd.0302260825.3c19c0c7@posting.google.com>/           john_20_28_2000@yahoo.com (jm) wrote:n  w > martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender) wrote in message news:<3e5bd1e6.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>...a) > > jm (john_20_28_2000@yahoo.com) wrote:?I > > > Also, I couldn't figure out how to see what compiler version I had.t* > > > "Help CC" didn't reveal the version. > >  > > $ CC /VERSIONn > >  > > cu,i > >   Martin > H > I have version 5.something.  Compaq says it is about ten years old.  IE > think I have found my problem.  Thanks.  Incidentally, /version did,H > not give the information, I had to find the image and issue /analyze.  > Thanks again.n   A Fortran trick might work:    FORTRAN /LIS=TT: /NOOBJECT TT: <CTRL-Z>  5 The listing from compiling nothing shows the version.    --  
 Alan Adams& alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk http://www.nckc.org.uk/-   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 20:12:39 +0100t1 From: PRSTSC::DTL <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr>m$ Subject: send mail from an intranet?4 Message-ID: <3e737b5b$0$26374$626a54ce@news.free.fr>  > I have an intranet behind a Router and an ADSL link to my ISP.1 When I try to "exit" from my PWS via mail, I get:s  A From:   SMTP%"TCPIP$SMTP@dtl02.nerim.net" 13-MAR-2003 21:27:09.30  To:     system@dtl02.nerim.net CC:h Subj:   Returned mail   + Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 21:27:08 +0100 (MET)v, Message-Id: <03031321270855@dtl02.nerim.net>  From: TCPIP$SMTP@dtl02.nerim.net To: system@dtl02.nerim.net Subject: Returned mail    ' ---- Transcript of session follows ----:  9 553  %TCPIP-E-SMTP_COMMANDERR, SMTP command error free.frq    ---- Unsent message follows ----  + Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 21:27:06 +0100 (MET)v, Message-Id: <03031321270657@dtl02.nerim.net> From: system@dtl02.nerim.net To: DIDIER.MORANDI@free.fr
 Subject: testw% X-VMS-To: SMTP%didier.morandi@free.fr       & Is it a bind resovler problem or what?   Thanks.    D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 22:53:52 -0600O1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>r( Subject: Re: send mail from an intranet?' Message-ID: <3E740360.EDAA3F21@fsi.net>t   PRSTSC::DTL wrote: > @ > I have an intranet behind a Router and an ADSL link to my ISP.3 > When I try to "exit" from my PWS via mail, I get:u > C > From:   SMTP%"TCPIP$SMTP@dtl02.nerim.net" 13-MAR-2003 21:27:09.30n  > To:     system@dtl02.nerim.net > CC:d > Subj:   Returned mail  > - > Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 21:27:08 +0100 (MET)i. > Message-Id: <03031321270855@dtl02.nerim.net>" > From: TCPIP$SMTP@dtl02.nerim.net > To: system@dtl02.nerim.net > Subject: Returned mail > ) > ---- Transcript of session follows ----o > ; > 553  %TCPIP-E-SMTP_COMMANDERR, SMTP command error free.frw > " > ---- Unsent message follows ---- > - > Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 21:27:06 +0100 (MET)p. > Message-Id: <03031321270657@dtl02.nerim.net> > From: system@dtl02.nerim.net > To: DIDIER.MORANDI@free.fr > Subject: testn' > X-VMS-To: SMTP%didier.morandi@free.frs > ( > Is it a bind resovler problem or what?  F I'll be watching to see if anyone posts any info. I had message bounce> off another site for the same reason - unexpected this is, and  unfortunate (as Yoda once said).   -- o David J. Dachterak dba DJE Systemse http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/p   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 07:21:03 +0100-1 From: PRSTSC::DTL <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr>8( Subject: Re: send mail from an intranet?4 Message-ID: <3e741803$0$26369$626a54ce@news.free.fr>   David J. Dachtera wrote: >  > H > I'll be watching to see if anyone posts any info. I had message bounce@ > off another site for the same reason - unexpected this is, and" > unfortunate (as Yoda once said).  I Thank you David, I was wondering why there is no answer yet. I feel that tF it is just because my gateway has no mail router software, all simply G (as we say in Swiss) (for the moment I'm more swiss than French, these   days :-)   D.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 20:41:26 GMTp( From: Alder <PGDEHMKOKIMD@spammotel.com>! Subject: Re: SQS Listener (again) * Message-ID: <3E738FF4.20203@spammotel.com>   Thanks for checking that, Paul.d   Paul Sture wrote:f > Alder wrote: >  >>David J. Dachtera wrote: >> >> >>>Alder wrote:s >>>g5 >>>>Username: SQLSRV$DEFLT                     Owner:  >>>  >><SNIP> >>J >>>>Primary   000000000011111111112222  Secondary 000000000011111111112222J >>>>Day Hours 012345678901234567890123  Day Hours 012345678901234567890123J >>>>Network:  -----  No access  ------            -----  No access  ------J >>>>Batch:    -----  No access  ------            -----  No access  ------J >>>>Local:    -----  No access  ------            -----  No access  ------J >>>>Dialup:   -----  No access  ------            -----  No access  ------J >>>>Remote:   -----  No access  ------            -----  No access  ------ >>>k >>> K >>>This account is set for /NOACCESS. Is that correct? (I'm skeptical.) I'do >>>expect at least /NETWORK. >>>  >>Q >>Good point.  That would at least give it the same access as many TCPIP ServicesoP >>accounts like TCPIP$FTP and TCPIP$TELNET.  I've made no changes to the accountO >>parameters since installation so I assume the account was set up according tonL >>Oracle's spec.  Nevertheless, I checked the SQS Configuration guide and myO >>installation output just in case, but neither mentions how the account should  >>be set up in the UAF.o >>J >>Perhaps because this version of SQS is "free" and limited to developmentQ >>purposes only, the "spec" was to disallow network access - kind of a poor man'snP >>licence protection scheme :-)  But if NETWORK or some other access is requiredR >>in the UAF, I'm confused about how it is that I am able to make connections from' >>other machines on my LAN using TCPIP?k >>  >>Bewilderment reigns supreme... >> >>Aldere >  > J > A brief check on a fully licensed system showed the same access settings > as above.  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 13:33:18 -0500B From: Everhart <ge@gce.com>m- Subject: Re: Two VAXes on one SCSI bus (long)c+ Message-ID: <b4vrlm$c40$1@bob.news.rcn.net>   C VMS uses SCSI "target mode" to make sure that a device has a singleIJ name even if present on a shared bus. If the name differed, file structure2 locks would not work and files could be corrupted.  E Now, not all SCSI controllers support target mode. I *THINK* the 3100gB might have one of those that does not normally (though memory getsC fuzzy here). If it does not, the VMS shared SCSI mode will not work D with a shared bus. It's wired into dkdriver that way, so not readilyG patchable in some fashion. If one processor sees another processor typelD device when it scans the SCSI bus, it needs to be able to reply withG port allocation class (I think) that is used for that bus. Not all SCSI3, adapters are designed to be able to do this.  F The adapter on a 3100 is pretty primitive, and can probably be made toE work but I kinda recall it was not, save on some old test setups that4B were not full target mode. I could be wrong here. However VMS willB arbitrate the device allocation class to get the devices named the8 same if it has a working shared-scsi-bus implementation.  N Given a properly supporting SCSI adapter this kind of thing can work. Note tooP though that SCSI disks on a shared bus are much more tightly checked by dkdriverI than disks on a nonshared SCSI bus. The reason is they MUST keep requestsiK straight when they come from different machines, and MUST understand taggedaK queueing correctly if they do it at all, or cluster state transitions won't3K clean up outstanding I/O right. It is quite easy to get a disk that will beeL tolerated on single machine SCSI that cannot be used on a shared bus. BuyingL the ones certified to work with VMS is the fix. A LOT of additional firmware- testing gets done to earn that certification.t   Glenn Everhart   Hans Vlems wrote: D > A couple of days ago the question of the viability of a dual homedL > VAXcluster was raised. Apparantly there is no real risk that hardware getsL > damaged, other than loosing the on-disk datastructure, I felt it was worthH > investigating. This is a description of a brief experiment with a dualE > hosted shared SCSI bus VAX/VMS cluster. The following equipment andh > configuration was used:e >  >  >  >  >  > MicroVAX 3100-10 > VAXstation 3100-M48e >  >  >  > SCSI-A: dka300 > dka100 : SCSI-At >  >               dka500 > mka500 > K > SCSI-B: dkb300 -------------------- dkb0     ------------------- dkb100 :p > SCSI-B > < >                                                     dkb500 > dkb200 >  >  > dkb400 >  >  > H > Dkb0 and dkb500 are located in an expansion cabinet. Both systems wereN > connected by ethernet as well. The default SCSI id for a VAX SCSI controllerG > is 6, so on the 3100-10 this value was set to 7. Dkb300, an RZ24, waspN > selected as the common system disk for these two nodes. The operating systemN > is VAX/VMS V7.3, no patches. The only layered product that was installed was > DECnet phase IV. > 3 > The systems used the following SYSGEN parameters:e >  >  >  > 3100-10      3100-M48e > @ > SCSNODE                    SERV                           STAT > > > SCSSYSTEMID            2050                             2049 > A > ALLOCLASS                 100                               100l > = > NISCS_LOAD_PEA0      1                                    1o > B > VAXCLUSTER                2                                    2 > C > MSCP_LOAD                  1                                    1  > = > MSCP_SERVE_ALL       1                                    1H > @ > INTERCONNECT           "NI"                               "NI" > C > BOOTNODE                   "N"                                "N"  >  >  > J > All the disks and tapes and the two computers were powered on during theK > entire experiment. The SHOW DEVICE command on both systems listed all thenK > SCSI devices on the SCSI-B channel. Only the opposite VAX SCSI controlleroK > was not listed in the output. In phase 1 the VAXstation was in >>> promptaN > mode and during phase 2 the 3100-10 was in >>> mode. The 3100-10 was used toI > install VMS from the CD-ROM located in dkb500. The following steps weren > executed in phase 1: >  >  > I > 1 Boot standalone backup from the CD and restore VMS073.B to the target  > disk: dkb300 > L > 2 Boot from dkb300 and install the options and libraries as well as DECnet
 > phase IV > ' > 3 The system runs autogen and rebootsn > M > 4 Install all 6 licenses that are needed (2 of each for VAX-VMS, VAXCLUSTER K > and DVNETRTG) and apply the SCSNODE names for each set of three licenses.. > K > 5 Configure DECnet; both nodes were configured as routers (one as an areaaL > router to allow it to talk to the regular VMS systems that are all in area > 1).r > J > 6 Run cluster_config to create the cluster; do not make it a bootserver;$ > cluster_config reboots the system. > E > 7 SYSTARTUP_VMS was modified to have just a couple of commands: SETd> > TERM/PERM for OPA0:, define SYSUAF and @sys$manager:startnet > N > 8 Again cluster_config was run, now to create a new system root which became > SYS1 on the same system disk.m > + > 9 The 3100-10 was shut down (properly :-)a >  >  > N > The next phase was to boot the VAXstation from its new root and configure itM > while the 3100-10 was kept on the >>> prompt. Phase 2 was shorter, but held0 > the first surprises: >  >  > N > The boot sequence was >>> B/10000000 dkb300 (reminded me of CI clusters) andL > VMS complained about a missing CXX library and a missing swapfile. PerhapsB > other files as well but that was all I could see on the console. > K > MODPARAMS was copied from [sys0.sysexe] to [sys1.sysexe] and modified for1K > the 3100-M48. Only two parameters were different, of course they occurred  > twice in MODPARAMS.w > M > Next autogen was run, with the parameters getdata, shutdown and nofeedback.s > D > Again the swapfile and pagefile were missing and were created with- > sys$update:swapfiles, followed by a reboot.> >  > DECnet was configuredu >  >  > M > At this point the 3100-10 was booted into the cluster. The result was quite5M > amazing because the 3100-10 booted without a problem. Only when the 3100-10 C > console was touched the problems started: the system disk went in N > mount/dismount state as soon as both systems tried to access the system diskE > at the same time. The same happened when I mounted a data disk withoJ > /cluster. Each system can use that disk without a problem as long as the > other system is quiet. >  >  >  >  > < > A couple of ASCII "art" displays as seen from the 3100-10: >  >  >  > $ show cluster > H > View of Cluster from system ID 2050  node: SERV            15-MAR-2003
 > 17:27:51 > # > lqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqwqqqqqqqqqk. > & > x      SYSTEMS     x    MEMBERS    x > # > tqqqqqqqqwqqqqqqqqqqqqnqqqqqqqqqup > " > x  NODE  x SOFTWARE x  STATUS  x > # > tqqqqqqqqnqqqqqqqqqqqqnqqqqqqqqqu  > $ > x  SERV    x  VMS V7.3 x MEMBER  x > % > x  STAT    x  VMS V7.3  x MEMBER  x  > # > mqqqqqqqqvqqqqqqqqqqqqvqqqqqqqqqj  >  >  > 
 > $ sho dev db >  >  > M > Device                                Device                Error    Volumel > Free       Trans Mnt > L >  Name                                Status                Count     Label > Blocks    Count Cnty > 5 > $100$DKA100:    (STAT)  Online                    0r > 4 > $100$DKA300:    (SERV)  Online                   0 > 4 > $100$DKA500:    (SERV)  Online                   0 > 6 > $100$DKB0:      (SERV)  Online                     0 > ? > $100$DKB100:    (SERV)  Mounted                3       SYSMGRa > 458970     1       2 > 4 > $100$DKB200:    (SERV)  Online                   0 > M > $100$DKB300:    (SERV)  Mounted              14       OVMSVAXSYS      44028o > 165     2  > 1 > $100$DKB400:    (SERV)  Online wrtlck         0i > 1 > $100$DKB500:    (SERV)  Online wrtlck         0  >  >  > 
 > $ sh err > A > Device                                              Error Count, > , > $100$DKB100: (SERV, STAT)                3 > , > $100$DKB300: (SERV, STAT)               14 > 7 > SERV$PKB0:                                      27814  >  >  >  >  >  > Conclusions: >  >  > L > 1 This is not a useful configuration, as predicted by Hoff and others from > DEC engineering. > ( > 2 There is no concurrent use of disks. > L > 3 Even a single user can force the systems to drop the cluster channel and" > thus into a cluster  transition. > I > 4 You'd need a quorum disk on the shared bus to survive the loss of oney > computer.p > E > 5 The SCSI bus reports a huge number of errors in just a short time A > indicating that the device driver is not really happy with thism > configuration. >  >  > J > But, IMHO an important issue: neither disk got corrupted. I more or lessL > expected to do a restore on the data disk but that proved unnecessary. TheN > cluster was dissolved and each system booted from its own proper system diskM > and the SYSMGR disk had no data integrity problems and neither did the RZ24 K > that was used for system disk. An analyze/error on both disks produced noo	 > errors.s >  >  >  > Hans Vlems >    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 13:19:15 -0500 : From: Charles Shannon Hendrix <shannon@news.widomaker.com> Subject: Re: unixo7 Message-ID: <slrnb76rl2.1lg.shannon@news.widomaker.com>   K In article <b4kt0k$nrq$2@f04n12.cac.psu.edu>, Dr. Richard E. Hawkins wrote:m  D >>That is almost completely illegible under Acroread 4.05.  Slightly= >>better with Ghostview, but still foul.  What do people haven >>against text? or even HTML.  >  > And we come full circle :)  " How did you prepare this document?   It's probably a font problem.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 16:12:40 -0500c5 From: ab528@freenet.carleton.ca (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff)K Subject: Re: unix / Message-ID: <b5050a$co8$1@freenet9.carleton.ca>i  5 "J. Clarke" <jclarke@nospam.invalid> wrote in messageC5 news:pan.2003.03.15.17.58.42.324768@nospam.invalid...h) > I should take a picture of my Model 95.w  :   In this newsgroup, that had better be prefixed with 360.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 22:59:13 GMT:) From: Charles Richmond <richmond@ev1.net>n Subject: Re: unix0' Message-ID: <3E73CBF2.B051827A@ev1.net>    "Heinz W. Wiggeshoff" wrote: > 7 > "J. Clarke" <jclarke@nospam.invalid> wrote in messages7 > news:pan.2003.03.15.17.58.42.324768@nospam.invalid...n+ > > I should take a picture of my Model 95.  > < >   In this newsgroup, that had better be prefixed with 360. >l= Actually, the PS/2 model 95 is *well* over ten years old now. : So IMHO it qualifies for <a.f.c.> inclusion. About four or9 five years ago, I went to a big "parking lot" electronics = sale. Some guy had 10 foot stacks of PS/2 model 30's for sale>; ...just the computer part, no monitor or keyboard...for $10i5 each US. I did *not* see anyone rushing to buy one...s  ; IIRC, the PS/2 model 95 was the *only* PS/2 that had a '386.1 in it...the rest were underpowered with a '286.../   -- b? +-------------------------------------------------------------+y? |     Charles and Francis Richmond     <richmond@plano.net>   |o? +-------------------------------------------------------------+l   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 23:02:14 GMTb) From: Charles Richmond <richmond@ev1.net>w Subject: Re: unixo' Message-ID: <3E73CCA7.6A19DB4D@ev1.net>    rmk@rmkhome.com wrote: > U > In alt.folklore.computers Dr. Richard E. Hawkins <hawk@slytherin.ds.psu.edu> wrote:  > K > > what's the point?  Production will stop when analog broadcast stops . .e > > .d > M > My cable TV box will continue to put out an analog signal ( already digitaloN > in ). I will be able to go another decade before spending over $250 to watchB > TV. If I had to pay more than that for a TV, I would give it up. > " > I don't own a DVD player either. > = Well, I guess with the failing eyesight of the old codgers onb= <a.f.c.>, a TV with a better quality picture would be a waster; of money. But IMHO you might consider a 27" or a 32" TV so p< that the picture is *big* enough that you can at least tell  what is going on...    ;-)  : Strangely enough, I have found that *stereo* TV *does* add a lot to the programs. c     -- p? +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ? |     Charles and Francis Richmond     <richmond@plano.net>   |h? +-------------------------------------------------------------+    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 23:03:21 GMTm) From: Charles Richmond <richmond@ev1.net>y Subject: Re: unixs' Message-ID: <3E73CCEB.968D57FA@ev1.net>k   Joe Heimann wrote: > : > In comp.os.vms Stan Barr <stanb45@dial.pipex.com> wrote:: > > On Fri, 14 Mar 2003 13:39:57 +0100, Steve O'Hara-Smith > > <steveo@eircom.net> wrote: > >>T > >>c) They [LCD displays] are far too expensive - especially at decent resolutions. > O > > Yep, I've been lusting after an Apple 23" 1920x1200 pixel one...that shouldoM > > be nearly enough real-estate, but it costs more than all my computer gearGM > > put together :-(   I'll keep struggling along with my dual headed 17" andc > > 15" setup... > H > Apple recently reduced the price on that one by quite a bit, now it isJ > only very expensive as compared to extremely expensive.  Might only cost' > as much as most of your equipment....3 > < Hey, this is easily solved...just buy *all* Apple equipment.8 Then the LCD will *not* cost as much as the rest of your6 equipment...because the rest will also be expensive!!!   -- h? +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ? |     Charles and Francis Richmond     <richmond@plano.net>   |w? +-------------------------------------------------------------+r   ------------------------------   Date: 16 Mar 2003 00:32:18 GMT, From: bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: unix)6 Message-ID: <b50gmi$25435a$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>  ' In article <3E73CBF2.B051827A@ev1.net>,m, 	Charles Richmond <richmond@ev1.net> writes: > "Heinz W. Wiggeshoff" wrote: >> a8 >> "J. Clarke" <jclarke@nospam.invalid> wrote in message8 >> news:pan.2003.03.15.17.58.42.324768@nospam.invalid..., >> > I should take a picture of my Model 95. >> t= >>   In this newsgroup, that had better be prefixed with 360.u >>? > Actually, the PS/2 model 95 is *well* over ten years old now. < > So IMHO it qualifies for <a.f.c.> inclusion. About four or; > five years ago, I went to a big "parking lot" electronics ? > sale. Some guy had 10 foot stacks of PS/2 model 30's for sale = > ...just the computer part, no monitor or keyboard...for $10t7 > each US. I did *not* see anyone rushing to buy one...r  . Thats because at $10 they were way overpriced.   > = > IIRC, the PS/2 model 95 was the *only* PS/2 that had a '386 3 > in it...the rest were underpowered with a '286...m  > Nope, Model 80's and Model 70's were 386's.  Actually, I don't? remember any PS/2's that had '286's in them.  BUt maybe we just"= skipped from the 30 to the bigger ones.  We had piles of theml< at the University and I had several dozen in the Department.> Still a few in my storage closet and I think 2 of them here at2 the house. And lots of 3Com and WD ethernet cards.    bill   -- nJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   _   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 03:46:31 GMT ) From: Charles Richmond <richmond@ev1.net>A Subject: Re: unixc' Message-ID: <3E740F48.7C81AAF8@ev1.net>-   Bill Gunshannon wrote: > ) > In article <3E73CBF2.B051827A@ev1.net>,e5 >         Charles Richmond <richmond@ev1.net> writes:t > > / > >       [snip...]     [snip...]     [snip...]I > >7? > > IIRC, the PS/2 model 95 was the *only* PS/2 that had a '386a5 > > in it...the rest were underpowered with a '286.... > @ > Nope, Model 80's and Model 70's were 386's.  Actually, I don'tA > remember any PS/2's that had '286's in them.  BUt maybe we justi? > skipped from the 30 to the bigger ones.  We had piles of themf> > at the University and I had several dozen in the Department.@ > Still a few in my storage closet and I think 2 of them here at4 > the house. And lots of 3Com and WD ethernet cards. > < I know that the model 30's and model 50's had only '286's in@ them. From what I have been able to dig up on the 'net, anything$ below a model 70 had a '286 in it...   --  ? +-------------------------------------------------------------+i? |     Charles and Francis Richmond     <richmond@plano.net>   |t? +-------------------------------------------------------------+    ------------------------------   Date: 16 Mar 2003 03:57:26 GMT From: rmk@rmkhome.comn Subject: Re: unixi3 Message-ID: <3e73f626$0$193$75868355@news.frii.net>h  D In alt.folklore.computers Charles Richmond <richmond@ev1.net> wrote:  ? > Well, I guess with the failing eyesight of the old codgers on ? > <a.f.c.>, a TV with a better quality picture would be a wastey= > of money. But IMHO you might consider a 27" or a 32" TV so i> > that the picture is *big* enough that you can at least tell  > what is going on...    ;-)   I might get a 25" or 27".   < > Strangely enough, I have found that *stereo* TV *does* add > a lot to the programs. v  F If I really want to hear stereo I play my VCR through my stereo, which only has 2 speakers. :-) -- (, rmk@rmkhome.com		http://www.rmkhome.com/~rmk   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 00:57:20 -0500a4 From: Roland Hutchinson <my_spamtrap@eudoramail.com> Subject: Re: unix 5 Message-ID: <b513q7$24c1a4$1@ID-99522.news.dfncis.de>0   Charles Richmond wrote:m   > Joe Heimann wrote:  > >> > Yep, I've been lusting after an Apple 23" 1920x1200 pixelF >> > one...that should be nearly enough real-estate, but it costs more >> > than all my computer gearF >> > put together :-(   I'll keep struggling along with my dual headed >> > 17" and 15" setup...d >> lF >> Apple recently reduced the price on that one by quite a bit, now it >> istF >> only very expensive as compared to extremely expensive.  Might only- >> cost as much as most of your equipment....s >> .> > Hey, this is easily solved...just buy *all* Apple equipment.: > Then the LCD will *not* cost as much as the rest of your8 > equipment...because the rest will also be expensive!!!  H Not necessarily! The least expensive Apple desktop machine that needs a G separate display (i.e. not counting the iMacs and eMacs that come with aD built-in screens) costs $1499 at Apple's online store.  The 23-inch  display weighs in at $1999.   G But be of good cheer. If a monitor that only costs $500 more than your mF computer disappoints you, you can hook up TWO 23-inch displays if you " buy an extra $99 external adaptor.  H Anyway, the old saw about Apple gear being overpriced needs to be taken F with a grain of salt nowadays.  They currently offer both desktop and G laptop machines for $999 that compare very favorably to Intel machines -F at the same price point.  It is, however, true that you can't run Mac ' OS on a new $300 box and a $99 monitor.c  F ObAFU: Show of hands now: who already knew that eMacs come with Emacs  pre-installed?    F Now hands up all who think that Apple should voluntarily offer to pay & the FSF a royalty for use of the name!   -- .A Roland Hutchinson              Will play viola da gamba for food.f  < NB mail to my_spamtrap@eudoramail.com is heavily filtered to? remove spam.  If your message looks like spam I may not see it.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 01:06:54 -0500t4 From: Roland Hutchinson <my_spamtrap@eudoramail.com> Subject: Re: unixn5 Message-ID: <b514c3$24c1a4$2@ID-99522.news.dfncis.de>e   J. Clarke wrote:  > > On Sat, 15 Mar 2003 11:14:29 -0500, Roland Hutchinson wrote:  nE >> I'm told the Macintosh notebooks (iBook and PowerBook lines) are ae >> nicetG >> platform for Linux, too -- and they are quite competitively priced. eB >> I have yet to try running Linux on one of them myself; too busyG >> running SteveOS on them (from a terminal window at least part of the,> >> time!). Most of them have pretty acceptable keyboards, too. > B > The Macs can run Linux just fine, however since they come with aD > version of BSD ported by Apple there's not much point to it unlessH > there's some specific app you need to run that for some reason doesn't > work on BSD.  D Yes, that's another reason why I haven't got around to playing with  Linux on them.    H (Followups redirected to a.f.c., where I meant to have sent them in the 
 first place.)o   -- eA Roland Hutchinson              Will play viola da gamba for food.a  < NB mail to my_spamtrap@eudoramail.com is heavily filtered to? remove spam.  If your message looks like spam I may not see it.I   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 01:15:18 -0500y4 From: Roland Hutchinson <my_spamtrap@eudoramail.com> Subject: Re: unix 5 Message-ID: <b514rr$24c1a4$3@ID-99522.news.dfncis.de>o   Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote:   < > I go for 1600x1200 or better and turn up the point size to > something readable :):  F An excellent strategy until you have to print from a WYSIWYG program.   H Better to tell the OS that your screen has got some gynormous number of # pixels to the inch -- if you can.  l   -- nA Roland Hutchinson              Will play viola da gamba for food.y  < NB mail to my_spamtrap@eudoramail.com is heavily filtered to? remove spam.  If your message looks like spam I may not see it.o   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 06:32:05 GMTr  From: CJT <cheljuba@prodigy.net> Subject: Re: unix * Message-ID: <3E741A64.3070106@prodigy.net>   bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca wrote:v > CJT wrote: > B >>>  If you read the fine print , Red hat does not suport installsI >>> or updates over a modem. Since I have a modem I use Free BSD instead.  >>> Ben. >> > . >> Does that include DSL modems?  Cable modems >  > B > If it does not use a network card , Red hat will not support it.  D My dialup modem is accessed via the lan.  I wonder if it would work.   > Ben. > C > Btw the big bloat on Linux installs is the Network and other Filea > system support.> >    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 12:06:46 -0800e" From: GreyCloud <cumulus@mist.com>' Subject: Re: Where to buy a VAXstation?h( Message-ID: <3E7387D6.D3D66A4A@mist.com>   "David J. Dachtera" wrote: >  > Michael Rice wrote:m > >IL > > I've been wanting a VAXstation for my home network, but there don't seemL > > to be many around.  There were a couple on eBay, but I missed them.  Are > > there any other sources? > >oL > > Specifically, I'd like a VAXstation 4000/90A or better (4000/96 would be > > great).  > I > Well, I've got three VAXstation 4000/VLCs. Sorry, that's the best I canaJ > do, but you're welcome to any of 'em for the cost of packing/shipping. IH > have two(2) 19-inch monitors and one 17-inch, also. Keyboards and miceG > as well. All have RZ26 disk, but only one of 'em has 24MB memory. The2J > other two only have 8MB. I could put a fresh install of OpenVMS-VAX V7.3 > on it for you. >  > -- > David J. Dachterao > dba DJE Systemse > http://www.djesys.com/ > * > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   6 Gads... this page opens pretty darn fast.  That is the& fastest I've ever seen a page come up.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 21:53:38 -0500 . From: Bob Koehler <rdkoehler@comcast.aspm.net>' Subject: Re: Where to buy a VAXstation?f/ Message-ID: <3E73E732.4030809@comcast.aspm.net>n   Michael Rice wrote:hK > I've been wanting a VAXstation for my home network, but there don't seem sK > to be many around.  There were a couple on eBay, but I missed them.  Are i > there any other sources? > K > Specifically, I'd like a VAXstation 4000/90A or better (4000/96 would be i	 > great).l > 	 > Thanks.t	 > Michaelo >    What part of the globe?a   -- i& --------------------------------------& Bob Koehler          | just me at home   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 21:31:26 -0600 : From: Michael Rice <MichaelARice@knology.n-o--s-p-a-m.net>' Subject: Re: Where to buy a VAXstation? / Message-ID: <v77s0m6aij3n69@corp.supernews.com>   ( On 3/15/2003 8:53 PM, Bob Koehler wrote: > Michael Rice wrote:o > G >> I've been wanting a VAXstation for my home network, but there don't oF >> seem to be many around.  There were a couple on eBay, but I missed & >> them.  Are there any other sources? >>I >> Specifically, I'd like a VAXstation 4000/90A or better (4000/96 would -
 >> be great).n >>
 >> Thanks.
 >> Michael >> >  > What part of the globe?l >    I'm in Alabama, USA.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 22:49:05 -0600f1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>p' Subject: Re: Where to buy a VAXstation?p' Message-ID: <3E740241.70D457D2@fsi.net>h   GreyCloud wrote: >  > "David J. Dachtera" wrote: > >i > > Michael Rice wrote:h > > >tN > > > I've been wanting a VAXstation for my home network, but there don't seemN > > > to be many around.  There were a couple on eBay, but I missed them.  Are > > > there any other sources? > > > N > > > Specifically, I'd like a VAXstation 4000/90A or better (4000/96 would be
 > > > great).t > > K > > Well, I've got three VAXstation 4000/VLCs. Sorry, that's the best I canvL > > do, but you're welcome to any of 'em for the cost of packing/shipping. IJ > > have two(2) 19-inch monitors and one 17-inch, also. Keyboards and miceI > > as well. All have RZ26 disk, but only one of 'em has 24MB memory. ThetL > > other two only have 8MB. I could put a fresh install of OpenVMS-VAX V7.3 > > on it for you. > >a > > -- > > David J. Dachterao > > dba DJE Systems  > > http://www.djesys.com/ > > , > > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:# > > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/o > 8 > Gads... this page opens pretty darn fast.  That is the( > fastest I've ever seen a page come up.  - Pure, static HTML - no graphics, no nonsense.m  # ...and my ISPs got some HUGE pipes!    -- d David J. Dachteraa dba DJE Systemsc http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/o   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.147 ************************