1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 17 Mar 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 150       Contents: Re: Another missed opportunity Re: Another missed opportunity Re: Another missed opportunity9 Re: asking again- what was the fastest vax and alpha made 9 Re: asking again- what was the fastest vax and alpha made I Re: asking again- what was the fastest vax and alpha made (vms of course) I Re: asking again- what was the fastest vax and alpha made (vms of course)  can one use this disk with VMS? % Changing CDE mouse pointer properties ) Re: Changing CDE mouse pointer properties  Re: Disk mirroring SCSI drives Re: Disk mirroring SCSI drives Disk Shadowing Re: Disk Shadowing$ Easy question about IA64 and OpenVMS( Re: Easy question about IA64 and OpenVMS- Re: environment variables lost on AlphaPC 164  Firmaware update Re: Firmaware update Re: Firmaware update( Re: Help using SYS$CRELNM and SYS$TRNLNM$ HP does operating system advertising( RE: HP does operating system advertising Re: HTML fort dummy (me) Re: HTML fort dummy (me) http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ # Re: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ # Re: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ # Re: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ # Re: I Have Seen The IA64 Future !!! # Re: I Have Seen The IA64 Future !!! # Re: I Have Seen The IA64 Future !!! # Re: I Have Seen The IA64 Future !!! # Re: I Have Seen The IA64 Future !!! # Re: I Have Seen The IA64 Future !!! # Re: I Have Seen The IA64 Future !!! # Re: I Have Seen The IA64 Future !!! # Re: I Have Seen The IA64 Future !!! # RE: I Have Seen The IA64 Future !!! # RE: I Have Seen The IA64 Future !!! # Re: I Have Seen The IA64 Future !!! # Re: I Have Seen The IA64 Future !!! 2 Re: Imination one of the nicests forms of flattery. Re: Is http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/ down?. Re: Is http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/ down?. Re: Is http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/ down?. RE: Is http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/ down?. Re: Is http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/ down?. Re: Is http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/ down?. Re: Is http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/ down?. Re: Is http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/ down?3 Issue building Perl after applying VMS73_ACRTL V3.0 7 Re: Issue building Perl after applying VMS73_ACRTL V3.0 7 Re: Issue building Perl after applying VMS73_ACRTL V3.0 7 Re: Issue building Perl after applying VMS73_ACRTL V3.0 ( Re: Maximum record length allowed in RMS* Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants* Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants* Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants* Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants* Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants* Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants' Re: National Moratorium to Stop the War ' Re: National Moratorium to Stop the War ' Re: National Moratorium to Stop the War  Newbie Please Help Re: Newbie Please Help Re: Newbie Please Help Re: Old is newE OpenVMS at CeBIT 2003 - more  info on hp OpenVMS Industry Standard 64 I Re: OpenVMS at CeBIT 2003 - more  info on hp OpenVMS Industry Standard 64 I Re: OpenVMS at CeBIT 2003 - more  info on hp OpenVMS Industry Standard 64 C OpenVMS Pearl - Monday March 17 Compare/merge tool that runs on VMS D Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for MarvelandP Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marveland Alpha RetaiP Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marveland Alpha Retai1 Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 1 Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 1 Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 2 Re: OT: Something everyone should ask their Doctor2 Re: OT: Something everyone should ask their Doctor2 Re: OT: Something everyone should ask their Doctor2 Re: OT: Something everyone should ask their Doctor+ Removing Obsolete Target Systems In GCC 3.4  RMS-F-KNM error   Re: Samba Missing stropts.h file Re: send mail from an intranet?  Re: send mail from an intranet?  Re: send mail from an intranet?  Re: send mail from an intranet?  Re: send mail from an intranet?  Re: send mail from an intranet?  Re: send mail from an intranet?  Re: send mail from an intranet?  Re: send mail from an intranet?  Re: send mail from an intranet?  Re: send mail from an intranet?  Re: send mail from an intranet?  Re: unix Re: unix Re: up2000 + up1000  Re: VAX Shared SCSI anyone? A [OT] Public NT BSOD displays, was: Re: Another missed opportunity   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 14:31:50 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> ' Subject: Re: Another missed opportunity H Message-ID: <q%kda.57965$a41.21337@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  = "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message ) news:3E735D76.EF0E4D22@vl.videotron.ca...  > John Smith wrote:  > > NT...shrewd choice. F > > Microsoft is ceasing ALL support for NT, including KB, either June5 > > 2003 or 2004 (can't recall the year for certain).  > E > While I don't like Microsoft, I don't beleieve the above. Microsoft  has just@ > decided that it has limits on prior version support, just like Digital did. I > think this is reasonable.   9 There is a Microsoft news release somewhere stating that.      <snip>    F > If you want credibility in the enterprise market, you need a certain amount of stability.  & That's never bothered Microsoft before   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 14:34:01 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> ' Subject: Re: Another missed opportunity H Message-ID: <t1lda.57990$a41.13046@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  = "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message ) news:3E73738B.283AD1E0@vl.videotron.ca...  > "Main, Kerry" wrote: > >  > > JF:  > >  > > Re: Windows NT4 Support:B > > http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=fh;[ln];lifean3 > A > Interesting that netscape doesn't regonzise the above URL in it  entirety, itB > stops at the ";". Will have to check to see if the semi colon is valid ; > character in a URL. It probably should have been escaped.  >  > B > When did NT 4.0 get released ? Was it between Win95 and Win 98 ?  C Win 98 is being de-supported in the same way as NT4, about 6 months  delay. Win 95 support ends this June.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 14:35:54 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> ' Subject: Re: Another missed opportunity H Message-ID: <e3lda.58010$a41.25659@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  1 "Michael Unger" <unger@decus.de> wrote in message % news:00A1CF3E.24B411D3.35@decus.de... 5 > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote:  > 	 > > [...]  > > C > > Coming back to the air traffic control system, was this upgrade  (well I @ > > wouldn't consider a move to NT an "upgrade") prompted by the mid-air collision A > > last year ? If the media started to point fingers are the ATC  system usingC > > antiquated equipment, I can see the pressure to upgrade, and in  such a@ > > context, they woudl be forced to buy something which "LOOKS" modern.  > > B > > At least they should have gone to Sun. Somehow, NT isn't up to
 snuff when it C > > comes to real time, life critical systems. Announcinmg you will  trust a toy C > > operating system to control air traffic with thousands of lives  depending on$ > > some wintel box is pretty scary. > ? > I would consider a "_hard_ real-time" operating system (OS-9,  VxWorks,D > ..) more appropriate than any Unix-based system. Winwoes of courseD > tends to play with the hour-glass when it should perform important actions.     Or in the old days VMSeln    ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 11:06:07 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> B Subject: Re: asking again- what was the fastest vax and alpha made; Message-ID: <01KTMNDFK3769FRD0S@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   0 >     VAX 7000 model 800 and VAX 10000 model 800 >     AlphaServer GS1280 > D >   Smaller VAX systems and smaller Alpha systems can be far better C >   choices for home use, as the above systems are physically quite  >   large.    ( Hoff, the master of understatement.  :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 14:15:45 +0000 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>B Subject: Re: asking again- what was the fastest vax and alpha made) Message-ID: <3E75D891.70A7E050@127.0.0.1>    Phillip Helbig wrote:  > 2 > >     VAX 7000 model 800 and VAX 10000 model 800 > >     AlphaServer GS1280 > > E > >   Smaller VAX systems and smaller Alpha systems can be far better E > >   choices for home use, as the above systems are physically quite  > >   large. > * > Hoff, the master of understatement.  :-)  F There is a VAX 7000 model 900 board, clocked at 733 (IIRC) rather thanE 600 MHz with 16 MB not 4 MB processor cache... Not actually a digital E product, even though the SYSLOA is present in more recent versions of  VMS...   --  ? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 07:46:07 -0500 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)R Subject: Re: asking again- what was the fastest vax and alpha made (vms of course)L Message-ID: <rdeininger-1703030746080001@user-uinj044.dialup.mindspring.com>  8 In article <3E754067.89DFE83B@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei( <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote:  M >If Alpha were intel property with Intel having all the motivations, would it M >take any longer for Intel to process-shrink Alpha than it does to shrink the  >8086 (Aka Pentium) ?  > K >Was there any discussion that the last one would be EV78 (leaving room for J >possibly an unplanned additional shrink EV79 should IA64 fail to generate >sales ?  I The processors shipping under the EV7 name are really EV78.  The chips in H ES45 and DS25 are EV68 (several variants).  The architecture changes and; the process shrinks have gotten out of sync over the years.    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 14:11:46 GMT F From: lederman@star.enet.dec.DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL.com (Bart Z. Lederman)R Subject: Re: asking again- what was the fastest vax and alpha made (vms of course)0 Message-ID: <CIkda.397$wA1.171@news.cpqcorp.net>  > If you are looking for a "home" VAX: based on some tests I ran< recently, the VAX 4000-100A, which is in a desk top case and= is about the same size as the larger VAXstation 3100s, is one = of the faster systems I've tested.  On most instructions it's < close to a 7000-620 or a 9000-420; except for Packed Decimal= instructions and a few others which are emulated on the 4000. ! The 3100-98 is also pretty zippy.   : I've seen some preliminary results for the Charon emulator9 running on a hp AlphaServer GS1280 7/1150 and it looks as 9 if it will beat most 'real' VAXes: but I don't think it's 9 quite ready to ship yet.  Further information should come " from the Charon people themselves.   --  (  B. Z. Lederman   Personal Opinions Only  8  Posting to a News group does NOT give anyone permission8  to send me advertising by E-mail or put me on a mailing  list of any kind.  5  Please remove the "DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL" if you have a 5  legitimate reason to E-mail a response to this post.    ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 11:23:55 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> ( Subject: can one use this disk with VMS?; Message-ID: <01KTMNXATAD49H1MPS@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   G A while back, I asked a similar question about some SEAGATE drives.  I  E have been happily using them as a two-volume shadow set for almost a  	 year now.   D The disk in question today is IBM 9.1 GB DNES with 50-pin connector.  D In the case of the SEAGATE drives, several folks said they had been F using them with VMS, so I felt OK.  Has anyone actually used this IBM  disk?   I (This IBM disk is not as attractive to me since it is only 1, and I like  I shadow sets, but if it is a common model perhaps I could pick up another   one somewhere.)    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 10:52:47 +0200 - From: "Kari Keronen" <kari.keronen@digita.fi> . Subject: Changing CDE mouse pointer properties6 Message-ID: <52gda.6$143.3072@reader1.news.jippii.net>  H I'm trying to change CDE mouse pointer color and perhaps size, but don'tI seem to find information how to do that anywhere. Is this even possible ? ! Motif 1.2-5, OpenVMS Alpha 7.2-1.    -Kari-   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Mar 2003 15:33:24 GMT3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann) 2 Subject: Re: Changing CDE mouse pointer properties0 Message-ID: <b54ps4$csc$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  f In article <52gda.6$143.3072@reader1.news.jippii.net>, "Kari Keronen" <kari.keronen@digita.fi> writes:I >I'm trying to change CDE mouse pointer color and perhaps size, but don't J >seem to find information how to do that anywhere. Is this even possible ?" >Motif 1.2-5, OpenVMS Alpha 7.2-1.  O I have a file DECW$SMB_POINTER_COLOR.DAT in my login directory. Its contents is  as follows:    sm.pointer_shape:       0 % sm.pointer_foreground:  #F5F5EDED0000 % sm.pointer_background:  #FFFF05050000  sm.versionid:   3.0   * Next, I have a file DECW$SMB_POINTER.DAT :  " sm.mouse_accel_denominator:     -1" sm.mouse_accel_numerator:       -1 sm.versionid:   3.0 " sm.mouse_accel_threshold:       -1% sm.pointer_button_order:        right  *doubleClickDelay:      250  *multiClickTime:        250     L My pointer is yellow as long as it is on the background. I hope the above is* sufficient, I don't remember how I did it.   Regards,    Christoph Gartmann   H -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, Germany                                           |H +------------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/menue.html -------------+   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 10:24:18 +0000 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>' Subject: Re: Disk mirroring SCSI drives ) Message-ID: <3E75A252.80A35313@127.0.0.1>    Richard Brodie wrote:  >   I > So volume shadowing looks like the thing. Is the licence cost an issue?    (Reply for Oscar)   G You can get "spindle based" licensing for shadowing, you need a license H per disc that is part of the mirror / shadowset. i.e. in this case you'd	 need two.   D If (because you've not mentioned it) you have a cluster and you alsoD have systems that need to mount that shadowset, they either need theG VOLSHAD full license, or a VOLSHAD-DISK to the number of physical disks  in the shadowset/ mirrorset.     --  ? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 17:25:14 +0000 (UTC) , From: lewis@PROBE.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)' Subject: Re: Disk mirroring SCSI drives . Message-ID: <b550dq$5uh$1@newslocal.mitre.org>  y Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes in article <3E75A252.80A35313@127.0.0.1> dated Mon, 17 Mar 2003 10:24:18 +0000:  >Richard Brodie wrote:J >> So volume shadowing looks like the thing. Is the licence cost an issue? > H >You can get "spindle based" licensing for shadowing, you need a licenseI >per disc that is part of the mirror / shadowset. i.e. in this case you'd 
 >need two.  I When I was buying them in the late 90s, they were a little over $1000 per ! spindle (VOLSHAD-DISK 100 units).   E >If (because you've not mentioned it) you have a cluster and you also E >have systems that need to mount that shadowset, they either need the H >VOLSHAD full license, or a VOLSHAD-DISK to the number of physical disks >in the shadowset/ mirrorset.   G This last part is misleadingly worded.  You only have to buy one set of F VOLSHAD-DISK licenses for one set of disks, no matter how many of your cluster members mount them.   I If you're buying full VOLSHAD licenses instead of the per-disk ones, then E you have to worry about how many machines mount them.  You might even = consider NFS-serving the shadow sets to some cluster members.   + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.org > The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 06:22:31 -0600  From: sfm1115@bjc.org  Subject: Disk Shadowing 8 Message-ID: <3gfb7vcchhf1psbn5u4hvo2mdkfod11tec@4ax.com>   Hi Everyone,  C I have an Alpha 2100 running OpenVMS 7.2-1.  I would like to Shadow   the System Drive on this server.  F I have already made the changes to the Modparams.Dat file and rebooted the server.   ! My system drive looks as follows:   F $1$DKD0:      (CHXRAY)  Mounted    0  AXPVMSSYS     15265728   451   1  E The drive I would like to add to as a member to this drive looks like E this:  I did an Init on this drive to name it the same as that above.   . $1$DKC0:      (CHXRAY)  Online               0  F I just want to make sure that I issue the correct command would it be:  ; MOUNT/SYSTEM DSA0:/SHADOW=($1$DKD0:,$1$DKC0:) SYSTEM SYSTEM   A Thanks for your time and all reply's can be sent to this address.      Shawn  sfm1115@bjc.org    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 13:34:18 +0100 : From: Karl Rohwedder <extern.karl.rohwedder@volkswagen.de> Subject: Re: Disk Shadowing / Message-ID: <b54f47$6ho2@doiweb4.volkswagen.de>    sfm1115@bjc.org schrieb: > Hi Everyone, > E > I have an Alpha 2100 running OpenVMS 7.2-1.  I would like to Shadow " > the System Drive on this server. > H > I have already made the changes to the Modparams.Dat file and rebooted
 > the server. B If you made the correct changes to MODPARAMS.DAT, yous hould see a2 DSA0 as systemdevice, check all SHADOW aprameters:  
 SHADOWING = 2  SHADOW_SYS_DISK = 1  SHADOW_SYS_UNIT = 0    > # > My system drive looks as follows:  > H > $1$DKD0:      (CHXRAY)  Mounted    0  AXPVMSSYS     15265728   451   1 > G > The drive I would like to add to as a member to this drive looks like G > this:  I did an Init on this drive to name it the same as that above.  > 0 > $1$DKC0:      (CHXRAY)  Online               0 > H > I just want to make sure that I issue the correct command would it be: > = > MOUNT/SYSTEM DSA0:/SHADOW=($1$DKD0:,$1$DKC0:) SYSTEM SYSTEM   E The label of the disk is AXPVMSSYS, so the mount command should look  C like MOUNT/SYSTEM DSA0:/SHADOW=($1$DKD0:,$1$DKC0:) AXPVMSSYS SYSTEM   H Once formed and copied, the shadowsets mount itself automgically during : startup, do not put a MOUNT/COPY command in SYSTARTUP_VMS.   > C > Thanks for your time and all reply's can be sent to this address.  >  >  > Shawn  > sfm1115@bjc.org      --    + mit freundlichen Gren | with best regards     Karl Rohwedder		iT-Ingenieurteam$ Ellernbruch 11		D-38112 Braunschweig  E mailto:it-ingteam(at)t-online.de | mailto:rohwedder(at)decus.decus.de - mailto:extern.karl.rohwedder(at)volkswagen.de    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 09:31:57 +0100 ( From: "Rudolf Wingert" <win@fom.fgan.de>- Subject: Easy question about IA64 and OpenVMS : Message-ID: <MDEJJFGEEOPAFONJONBKCEELCOAA.win@fom.fgan.de>   Hello,  D till now I am ablt to halt the system, if it hang. Then I did have aK possibility to crash the system, regardless it is a VAX or an Alpha. Yes on J an Alpha it was much easier (write CRASH if you are on consolmode). Now myL IA64 question: Is it possible to HALT the system? If yes, I am able to force2 a crash to get a system dump of errornoues system?   TIA and regards Rudolf Wingert   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 13:36:04 -0500 A From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star-dot-zko-dot-dec-dot-com> 1 Subject: Re: Easy question about IA64 and OpenVMS , Message-ID: <3e761595_2@hpb10302.boi.hp.com>  L Yes.  The "reset" button generates a non-maskable interrupt through the ACPIJ power management logic.  If the OS ACPI code can minimally function (whichJ is needs to be able to do to cause a crash dump) then it will allow you toC crash the system.  The exact capabilities and human interface isn't K complete.  Today, if it does something, I would guess is would be to invoke 7 XDELTA - which is what we will initially hook ^P up to.       3 "Rudolf Wingert" <win@fom.fgan.de> wrote in message 4 news:MDEJJFGEEOPAFONJONBKCEELCOAA.win@fom.fgan.de... > Hello, > F > till now I am ablt to halt the system, if it hang. Then I did have aJ > possibility to crash the system, regardless it is a VAX or an Alpha. Yes onL > an Alpha it was much easier (write CRASH if you are on consolmode). Now myH > IA64 question: Is it possible to HALT the system? If yes, I am able to force 4 > a crash to get a system dump of errornoues system? >   > TIA and regards Rudolf Wingert >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 09:18:04 +0100 : From: Karl Rohwedder <extern.karl.rohwedder@volkswagen.de>6 Subject: Re: environment variables lost on AlphaPC 164/ Message-ID: <b5403s$6ho1@doiweb4.volkswagen.de>    Horst Drechsel schrieb: ' >>Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 15:19:08 +0100 & >>From: "Peter Flunger" <p-i-b@gmx.at>8 >>Subject: Re: environment variables lost on AlphaPC 1642 >>Message-ID: <b4q40t$rsv$1@newsreader1.netway.at> >> >>Can you post the output of >> >>>>>show configuration  >> >>here ? >> > 4 > -------------------------------------------------- >  >    Dear colleague, >  >    here is the output of >  >    >>>show configuration > < > on our AlphaPC 164, which doesn't boot any more after the 9 > exchange of a crashed power supply. We have removed all ; > PCI cards except the SCSI controller for the CD drive and < > the graphics card, and powered off the floppy. When trying; > to boot from an OpenVMS 7.1-1H1 distribution CD, it hangs ) > in boot after the first line of output:  > = >       OpenVMS (TM) Alpha Operating System, Version V7.1-1H1  > ? > (after that it keeps on reading from the CD for a few seconds  > and then gets stuck) >  > I > -----------------------------------------------------------------------  > 
 >>>>sh config  > 4 >                        Digital AlphaPC 164 500 MHz > I > SRM Console V4.9-2             VMS PALcode V1.20-9, OSF PALcode V1.22-8  >  > SROM Revision: 2.2 > DECchip (tm) 21164A-2 $ > DECchip (tm) 21172 CIA ASIC Pass 3 >  > MEMORY > 256 Meg of system memory >  > 	 > PCI Bus > >      Bus 00  Slot 05: Digital S3 TRIO 64 Graphics Controller2 >      Bus 00  Slot 07: NCR 53C810 Scsi ControllerH >                                    pka0.7.0.7.0          SCSI Bus ID 7O >                                    dka400.4.0.7.0         TEAC CD-ROM CD-532S 7 >      Bus 00  Slot 08: Intel 82378IB PCI to ISA Bridge 2 >      Bus 00  Slot 11: CMD PCI0646 IDE ControllerC >                                    dqa0.0.0.11.0         PCI EIDE  >  > ISA M > Slot    Device Name             Type         Enabled  BaseAddr  IRQ     DMA  > 0 D >         0      MOUSE            Embedded        Yes     60      12C >         1      KBD              Embedded        Yes     60      1 C >         2      COM1             Embedded        Yes     3f8     4 C >         3      COM2             Embedded        Yes     2f8     3 C >         4      LPT1             Embedded        Yes     3bc     7 K >         5      FLOPPY           Embedded        Yes     3f0     6       2  >  > P > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > 2 >    When trying a converstional boot from CD with >  >    >>>b -flags 0,1 dka400  > ) > we get the SYSBOOT> prompt. When saying  >  >    SYSBOOT>continue    > 1 > we end up with the same effect described above. 
 > When saying  >  >    SYSBOOT>exit  >  > we get the error message:  > P > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------C >    %SYSBOOT-I-FILENOTLOC, Unable to locate SYS$PUBLIC_VECTORS.EXE P >    %SYSBOOT-F-LDFAIL, unable to load SYS$PUBLIC_VECTORS.EXE, status = 00000870 >  >    halted CPU 0  >  >    halt code = 5 >    HALT instructions executed  >    PC = 177f4  >    >>>P > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > A >   We also tried the conversational boot with the debug options:  > ) >    SYSBOOT>set startup_p1 "MIN"     und ! >    SYSBOOT>set startup_p2 "YES"  > J > what doesn't change anything in the behavior and output at boot failure. > J >    Is there a possibilty to use the startup debugging features available# > under SYSMAN, i.e. something like  > # >    SYSMAN>set options/verify=full & >    SYSMAN>set options/output=console% >    SYSMAN>set options/checkpointing  > K > from the SYSBOOT> level to get more information on the reason of failure?  >  >    Thanks for any help,  >  >        Horst >  >  > --O >  **************************************************************************** + >   Horst Drechsel                          N >   Dr. Remeis Observatory                 drechsel@sternwarte.uni-erlangen.deN >   Astronomical Institute                             Phone: +49-951-95222-15N >   University Erlangen-Nuernberg                        Fax: +49-951-95222-22, >   Sternwartstr.7, D-96049 Bamberg, GermanyO >  ****************************************************************************   H Error 870 is 'END-OF-FILE', may be your SYS$PUBLIC_VECTORS.EXEis defect.* Try booting from VMS-CD and check|restore.   --    + mit freundlichen Gren | with best regards     Karl Rohwedder		iT-Ingenieurteam$ Ellernbruch 11		D-38112 Braunschweig  E mailto:it-ingteam(at)t-online.de | mailto:rohwedder(at)decus.decus.de - mailto:extern.karl.rohwedder(at)volkswagen.de    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 17:03:23 +0100 7 From: Robert Trawinski <robert.trawinski@softax.com.pl>  Subject: Firmaware update / Message-ID: <b54pjj$80t$1@bozon2.softax.com.pl>    Hellow All !  B I've just got Alpha. It's not machine from DEC/Compaq. Indeed its H home-made computer. I'd like to install VMS 7.3-1 on it. SRM version is E    5.8-1. When I enter show config I see that motherboard is Digital  G AlphaPC 164LX 599Mhz . Is it possible to get newer version of firmware?    Robert   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 17:08:59 +0100 7 From: Robert Trawinski <robert.trawinski@softax.com.pl>  Subject: Re: Firmaware update / Message-ID: <b54pu3$821$1@bozon2.softax.com.pl>    Robert Trawinski wrote:  > Hellow All !  
 Hello All!   > D > I've just got Alpha. It's not machine from DEC/Compaq. Indeed its J > home-made computer. I'd like to install VMS 7.3-1 on it. SRM version is F >   5.8-1. When I enter show config I see that motherboard is Digital I > AlphaPC 164LX 599Mhz . Is it possible to get newer version of firmware?  >  > Robert >    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Mar 2003 10:43:34 -0800- From: jodonnell@hrblock.com (Jason O'Donnell)  Subject: Re: Firmaware update = Message-ID: <9059bf6b.0303171043.3ae38e0a@posting.google.com>   n Robert Trawinski <robert.trawinski@softax.com.pl> wrote in message news:<b54pjj$80t$1@bozon2.softax.com.pl>... > Hellow All ! > D > I've just got Alpha. It's not machine from DEC/Compaq. Indeed its J > home-made computer. I'd like to install VMS 7.3-1 on it. SRM version is G >    5.8-1. When I enter show config I see that motherboard is Digital  I > AlphaPC 164LX 599Mhz . Is it possible to get newer version of firmware?  >  > Robert  C If you can get a 7.3-1 distribution, then you should be able to get ) the firmware CD-ROM from the same source.    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Mar 2003 11:03:59 -0600 From: briggs@encompasserve.org1 Subject: Re: Help using SYS$CRELNM and SYS$TRNLNM 3 Message-ID: <KyUfN6f0OCMm@eisner.encompasserve.org>   z In article <7f15589f.0303161700.6fa5b3cd@posting.google.com>, craig.berry@SignalTreeSolutions.com (Craig A. Berry) writes:i > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3E726F04.575B3C03@vl.videotron.ca>...  >> RC Bryan wrote:F >> > about over 160 values but when I try to use sys$trnlnm to get the7 >> > values, it won't let me look at values above 127.   >>  I >> Interesting because the doc mentions that this is given as a longword.  > @ > It's only a longword because item lists always retrieve eitherE > longwords or pointers to other storage.  The doc also mentions that A > 127 is the maximum index value, so there is a hard limit of 128 D > equivalence names, 0-127.  N.B.  LNM$_MAX_INDEX is not the highestE > equivalence name index that a search list logical *can* hold; it is B > the highest equivalence name index that a particular search list% > logical name currently *does* hold.   E The in-memory format of a logcial name translation uses a translation D index field which has a one byte in width.  The values 0 through 127/ are available for ordinary translation indexes.   I The value 130 (or -126 if you used the signed interpretation) is reserved G for a "logical name table header".  The value 129 (or -127) is reserved H for a back pointer.  Back pointers are used for volume names and mailbox names.  B The executable behind $ SHOW LOGICAL uses its own code to walk theA logical name data structures, so it is not entirely surprising to E find that it differs from SYS$TRNLNM in that regard.  (The ability to E do a $ SHOW LOGICAL XYZ* requires more than SYS$TRNLNM can do, so the 1 DCL designers were forced to re-invent the wheel)   C Apparently $ SHOW LOGICAL got it wrong and SYS$CRELNM underenforces  things.    	John Briggs   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 17:47:29 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> - Subject: HP does operating system advertising J Message-ID: <RSnda.272576$UXa.219894@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  : There was an ad in my local newspaper today, placed by HP.  C Actually it was a series of ads, 7 in total. Each was a double-page A spread in the business section, in full color, totaling 14 pages.   D When I said local newspaper, it is actually one that has *extensive* national distribution.    A Ad #1 - was about Dreamworks, and the words  'HP workstations and  servers running Linux".   : Ad #2 - was about the Williams F1 team - no o/s mentioned.  8 Ad #3 - was about the NYSE and mentions NonStop servers.  : Ad #4 - was about Hong Kong government - no o/s mentioned.  8 Ad #5 - was about Fedex and Openview - no o/s mentioned.  = Ad #6 - was about birdwatching in Finland - no o/s mentioned.   D Ad #7 - was about grain growing in Mexico - mentions SAP and Windows NT.     C I'm surprised they forgot to mention other o/s'es like FreeBSD, and  QNX, and MS-DOS.  F The total cost of these ads on this one day alone must have been close to $1 million.    C Each ad ends with the tag line "everything is possible", except, it " would appear, advertising OpenVMS.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 17:58:41 -0000 - From: "Steve Spires" <Steve.Spires@torex.com> 1 Subject: RE: HP does operating system advertising E Message-ID: <91947A84607D9D48B8E674A5FAB54DA6854459@tahiti.tinuk.com>   H We have a TV advert the same as this, except IIRC it doesn't mention any@ OS at all, and I think some of the sections were different, eg I& remember amazon.com being one of them.   Steve Spires Technical Consultant Torex Health [T] +44 (0) 1295 274200  [F] +44 (0) 1295 275131 
 www.torex.com    >>-----Original Message------ >>From: John Smith [mailto:a@nonymous.com]=20  >>Sent: 17 March 2003 17:47  >>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com / >>Subject: HP does operating system advertising  >> >>< >>There was an ad in my local newspaper today, placed by HP. >>< >>Actually it was a series of ads, 7 in total. Each was a=20? >>double-page spread in the business section, in full color,=20  >>totaling 14 pages. >>= >>When I said local newspaper, it is actually one that has=20 $ >>*extensive* national distribution. >> >>B >>Ad #1 - was about Dreamworks, and the words  'HP workstations=20 >>and servers running Linux".  >>< >>Ad #2 - was about the Williams F1 team - no o/s mentioned. >>: >>Ad #3 - was about the NYSE and mentions NonStop servers. >>< >>Ad #4 - was about Hong Kong government - no o/s mentioned. >>: >>Ad #5 - was about Fedex and Openview - no o/s mentioned. >>? >>Ad #6 - was about birdwatching in Finland - no o/s mentioned.  >>A >>Ad #7 - was about grain growing in Mexico - mentions SAP and=20 
 >>Windows NT.  >> >>; >>I'm surprised they forgot to mention other o/s'es like=20  >>FreeBSD, and QNX, and MS-DOS.2 >>@ >>The total cost of these ads on this one day alone must have=20 >>been close to $1 million.p >> >>= >>Each ad ends with the tag line "everything is possible",=20e/ >>except, it would appear, advertising OpenVMS.h >> >> >> >>   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 08:37:32 +0100a4 From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr>! Subject: Re: HTML fort dummy (me) " Message-ID: <3E757B3C.405@Free.fr>   Keith A. Lewis wrote:e  L >If your server implements the CGI protocol, the script can get the raw dataK >from QUERY_STRING (GET) or the standard input (POST).  You should say whata3 >server you're using when you ask about this stuff.y >eG Ok. I use WASD, so I will RTFM to efficiently use Mark Daniel's CGIUTL.6 Thanks,w   D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 10:45:48 +0100 , From: "Ferry Bolhar" <bol@adv.magwien.gv.at>! Subject: Re: HTML fort dummy (me)m8 Message-ID: <1047894351.102239@mozart.adv.magwien.gv.at>  I  > I understood that the GET sends the params of the form within the URL, F > which needs to be decoded later, and the POST writes global symbols,H > which need to be read then processed. Is that right? How does it work?G > Can I write my own foobar program to do what I want to get instead oft; > just having the form variables filled in and transferred?e  7 You got the rights answers already, but just to inform:   K I strongly would recommend the book "CGI Programming on the world wide web"EL from Shishir Gundavaram (O'Reilly, ISBN 1-56592-168-2). It explains this andJ many other aspects in CGI programming in great datail. When I started withK CGI programming (and I'd guess from your question that you're in this phasem( now :-), it was extremly helpful for me.   Kind greetings,w   Ferrys --   Ing. Ferry Bolharh% Municipality of Vienna, Department 14g A-1010 Vienna / AUSTRIAe E-mail: bol@adv.magwien.gv.atb   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 11:12:30 +0100 (MET)o9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>h( Subject: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/; Message-ID: <01KTMNHZ9QVM9FRD0S@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>l  # > > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/i > 8 > Gads... this page opens pretty darn fast.  That is the( > fastest I've ever seen a page come up.  H One needs a fast connection ALL along the way (a chain is only as strongD as its weakest link, and a connection is only as fast as the slowestA portion), the page has to be served fast (fast hardware, fast web B server, low system load) and the page has to be full of bells and 	 whistles.T  H In my experience, slow web pages are almost always due to too many bellsB and whistles being present.  Of course, slow connections can be a F problem, but unless the bottleneck is near the web page itself, other C pages will be affected as well.  Even a VAXstation 3100/30 is fast 6* enough hardware for many web-server needs.   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Mar 2003 05:18:17 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)M, Subject: Re: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/3 Message-ID: <bk9LwIzPyuGp@eisner.encompasserve.org>   w In article <01KTMNHZ9QVM9FRD0S@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:n$ >> > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ >> a9 >> Gads... this page opens pretty darn fast.  That is them) >> fastest I've ever seen a page come up.o > J > One needs a fast connection ALL along the way (a chain is only as strongF > as its weakest link, and a connection is only as fast as the slowestC > portion), the page has to be served fast (fast hardware, fast websD > server, low system load) and the page has to be full of bells and  > whistles.t > J > In my experience, slow web pages are almost always due to too many bellsD > and whistles being present.  Of course, slow connections can be a H > problem, but unless the bottleneck is near the web page itself, other E > pages will be affected as well.  Even a VAXstation 3100/30 is fast m, > enough hardware for many web-server needs.  A One big issue is _latency_.  That is not relevant to a monolithicn@ page, but as soon as you get a pile of references to other files@ for graphics, etc., each can only be requested when its invoking' file has been received and interpreted.p   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 11:57:01 +0000-( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>, Subject: Re: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/) Message-ID: <3E75B80D.C6FCD23B@127.0.0.1>:   Larry Kilgallen wrote: > y > In article <01KTMNHZ9QVM9FRD0S@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:o& > >> > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ > >>; > >> Gads... this page opens pretty darn fast.  That is the + > >> fastest I've ever seen a page come up.i > >i  L > > In my experience, slow web pages are almost always due to too many bellsE > > and whistles being present.  Of course, slow connections can be a I > > problem, but unless the bottleneck is near the web page itself, other F > > pages will be affected as well.  Even a VAXstation 3100/30 is fast. > > enough hardware for many web-server needs. > C > One big issue is _latency_.  That is not relevant to a monolithicnB > page, but as soon as you get a pile of references to other filesB > for graphics, etc., each can only be requested when its invoking) > file has been received and interpreted.u  G You can specify image size in pixels, this enables text to be displayedn% immediately. You are also both right.   ; My pages are hand crafted with DCL and EDT, sometimes TECO.   @ What irritates me about Microbloat is all the font-on, font-off,D font-on, font-off. Personally I wish it would just font-off and have
 done with it.d -- t? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences' nclews at csc dot comR   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 11:17:10 -0400e0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>, Subject: Re: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho// Message-ID: <3E75E6F5.6FA93C43@vl.videotron.ca>9   Nic Clews wrote:I > You can specify image size in pixels, this enables text to be displayed ' > immediately. You are also both right.-  P There are a few more issues than that with regards to quick rendering of a page.  H With the abuses of Javascript, this will slow down the client during theK rendering process since it must interpret and execute the javascript. (turnu1 off javascript and watch the page render faster).4  L Also, consider the number of links that require resolution prior to the pageJ being ready to image. For every javascript external link, it must load theL whole javascriopt from the separate file and execute it before it can reallyZ continue (in case the extrenal javascript has "document.write("hello world")." statements.  K Another issue is that of tables. One single large , complex table will takedL much more time to render than multiple smaller tables one after each other.   L Web designers should be forced to demonstrate their work to their clients onN an old mac running at 150mhz on a 13" display. If I am even in the position toN evaluate a web site design proposed by some web designer, that is exactly what, I plan to do (and not tell them in advance).  W Although the w3c validator is also very good at pointing out incompetent web designers.S   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Mar 2003 08:21:50 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)h, Subject: Re: I Have Seen The IA64 Future !!!3 Message-ID: <uhG$noTrtv9p@eisner.encompasserve.org>   R In article <00A1CF3E.660039A0.52@decus.de>, Michael Unger <unger@decus.de> writes: > I > There is at least one large difference -- if the entire disk subsystem lE > fails you can still access and use the SRM console to perform some  J > (hardware) tests. This can't be done if the diagnostics routines are in / > the FAT partition (container file) on a disk.y  G    MV II didn't have diags in the console either, which was OK for it'seH    time.  I think as long as getting diags is not as slow as or limitted=    as booting the customer diag TK50 on an MV II it'll be OK.1   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Mar 2003 08:57:49 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)l, Subject: Re: I Have Seen The IA64 Future !!!3 Message-ID: <npe+8QbHiuRs@eisner.encompasserve.org>0  S In article <b52kvn$iia$1@news2.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>, Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> writes:  > news.verizon.net wrote:y >> RE: Slow bootinge >>  K >> We are using a floppy on the i2000 because we decided to focus the FAT32aN >> container file development work on the rx2600. We hard wired the i2000 codeM >> to look to the floppy or the internal SCSI disk for the FAT files. The twocJ >> files you saw on the i2000 floppy will be on the VMS system disk in the* >> FAT32 container file in future systems. >>  O >> Using the floppy does contribute to the slowness of booting the i2000 but it J >> has nothing to do with the content, only accessing the media. As to anyK >> Alpha SRM-like functions we want to have, we will put them in either thekO >> boot manager or in EFI applications. (The IA64 boot architecture is designedrO >> so that you can add whatever you want to it.) These get executed in the boot5( >> environment prior to running SYSBOOT. >> z >> Clair Grant   > Thanks for your reply Clair, > H >As I understand from an e-mail I got, Intel wants to put (almost ?) allL >bios/SRM  functions on a FAT formatted disk. Now it all depends on what youN >call a disk.  These days we have all kind of solid state devices that can actO >as a disk. USB  memory sticks, flashcards etc. I have no problem with the ideatJ >that these  functions are on such a kind of disk. However putting them onM >container file or  a disk partition of a VMS system disk does not sound verycP >attractive to me. If I  suspect problems with my system or if I want to upgradeO >'firmware', I would feel  much more comfortable if I could do that without thee( >risk tof compromising my  system disk.  >r  < 	In a sense you are saying there is a probability they can't 	get it right.  = 	Like multiple homeblocks, wouldn't firmware upgrades supporte: 	a failsafe backoff method?  Surely someone is making sure= 	that happens.  Otherwise, it goes beyond comfort and you enda+ 	up with customers with unbootable systems.V   >t' >And how about the portability of a VMS O >sytem disk etc.? So I do  hope that HP engineering will put all this low-levelpK >hardware related stuff on a  memory stick or a flashcard, and keep the VMS  >system disk as it is today. >   G 	I don't care what they do as long as it is robust and straightforward.n   				Rob    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Mar 2003 09:03:39 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) , Subject: Re: I Have Seen The IA64 Future !!!3 Message-ID: <r8i23CQ5II$r@eisner.encompasserve.org>L  b In article <3E74F036.AD283FDB@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes: > re: SRM console media. >  > K > I am concerned that in a cluster, not all nodes would be equipped with a   > CDROM. > ? 	Last I checked all Alphas have a CDROM.  Same should hold true- 	for all IA64 boxes.   				Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 12:07:09 -0400v0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>, Subject: Re: I Have Seen The IA64 Future !!!/ Message-ID: <3E75F2A8.A190111C@vl.videotron.ca>    Bob Koehler wrote:I >    MV II didn't have diags in the console either, which was OK for it'so >    time. e  @ As I recall, older VAxes had "console media" (diskettes) right ?  N Also, the MVII had "primitive" diagnostics on board, and its rom still allowedJ booting from ethernet. You can re-init the bus. Deposit stuff into memory.  K I can also, by depositing the right values into the right places in memory,tM start up the disgnostics/configuration utility for the DILOG SCSI-QBUS board.u  N I realise this is nowwhere near as complete as subsequent vaxes, but there wasO still some stuff available which I suspect the standard Intel stuff won't have.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 18:21:00 +01007$ From: Michael Unger <unger@decus.de>, Subject: Re: I Have Seen The IA64 Future !!!+ Message-ID: <00A1D03A.6CAC46DD.42@decus.de>h  & "Hoff Hoffman" <hoff@hp.nospam> wrote:   > [...]i > I >   The EFI console is a reasonable operating environment -- akin to thataH >   of VAX -- though with some definite differences and extensions from J >   the time of VAX, of course.  The EFI has some features I wish SRM had,J >   such as the ability to start an IP network and perform an FTP.  ThoughL >   I wish EFI had SRM-like pipe support, so neither is a clear winner here. >  > [...]   H But EFI, other than VAX console or Alpha SRM console, is located on the G system disk in a file system (FAT) different from the OS's file system lC (ODS), although it may be hidden in a "black box" (container file).r  5 That's a "mix-up" of specifications I really dislike.e  F BTW: On some of the EFI slides on the Intel web pages to which you or H Fred (I don't remember who) pointed us EFI is described as "the best of E DOS and UNIX" -- but it looks more like the least common denominator.t   Michael1   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 09:56:23 -0800o& From: Greg Cagle <gregc@gregcagle.com>, Subject: Re: I Have Seen The IA64 Future !!!/ Message-ID: <v7c31ucj0gqm5e@corp.supernews.com>c   Michael Unger wrote:  H > BTW: On some of the EFI slides on the Intel web pages to which you or J > Fred (I don't remember who) pointed us EFI is described as "the best of G > DOS and UNIX" -- but it looks more like the least common denominator.x    Well, it's better than BIOS 8^).   - Greg (ex-Phoenix employee)   --  
 Greg Cagle gregc at gregcagle dot com   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Mar 2003 12:02:03 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)-, Subject: Re: I Have Seen The IA64 Future !!!3 Message-ID: <dQqzgKnxJ7hk@eisner.encompasserve.org>-  R In article <00A1D03A.6CAC46DD.42@decus.de>, Michael Unger <unger@decus.de> writes:  J > But EFI, other than VAX console or Alpha SRM console, is located on the I > system disk in a file system (FAT) different from the OS's file system eE > (ODS), although it may be hidden in a "black box" (container file).  > 7 > That's a "mix-up" of specifications I really dislike.i  D Then you should really dislike files that intermix block storage andC record storage contrary to the RMS specification.  You can rid your * system disk of such files with the command  # 	DELETE SYS$SYSDEVICE:[*...]*.EXE;*   B On second thought, perhaps you should do that when booted from the distribution CDROM :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 13:02:10 -0500 A From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star-dot-zko-dot-dec-dot-com>-, Subject: Re: I Have Seen The IA64 Future !!!. Message-ID: <3e760da2$1_2@hpb10302.boi.hp.com>  + "Dirk Munk" <munk@home.nl> wrote in messagee, news:b52kvn$iia$1@news2.tilbu1.nb.home.nl...  I > As I understand from an e-mail I got, Intel wants to put (almost ?) all1 bios/SRMJ > functions on a FAT formatted disk. Now it all depends on what you call a disk.aL > These days we have all kind of solid state devices that can act as a disk. USBlK > memory sticks, flashcards etc. I have no problem with the idea that theseoI > functions are on such a kind of disk. However putting them on containers file orhI > a disk partition of a VMS system disk does not sound very attractive toS me. If IG > suspect problems with my system or if I want to upgrade 'firmware', Ia
 would feelL > much more comfortable if I could do that without the risk tof compromising myK > system disk. And how about the portability of a VMS sytem disk etc.? So Im doG > hope that HP engineering will put all this low-level hardware relatede
 stuff on aK > memory stick or a flashcard, and keep the VMS system disk as it is today.  >b  G Having been on a corporate task force for the Alpha console, and havingeK lived through a decade of issues - the strategy being taken by EFI/IPF is au
 sound one.  L There are certain functions that need to be in ROM.  The POST code, the bootJ driver code (which can be in the options ROM), the PAL code, the SAL code.. And that is where it is - in ROM/Flash memory.  G But there is a ton of stuff that *doesn't* need to be in ROM - directeduK tests and diagnostics, debug tools, etc.  The Turbolaser for example eats >o@ 2mb of runtime memory (and compressed ROM) just for the console.  J The traditional boot-block concept VMS has used for 25 years is also a bitH limiting - especially if one day you want to support a multi-OS bootableH disk.  So placing the primary bootstrap and OS loader onto the disk also makes good sense.7  H This doesn't make the IPF VMS system disk non-portable.  To VMS the diskK will have a different boot block format (that's OK, we don't plan on commonoI architecture boot disks), and the home block will have been pushed out tokI its backup location, and a few other blocks on the disk will be allocatedS? and fixed.  You will be able to mount it on your Alpha, or VAX.a  L Upgrading firmware on disk is probably less risky than updating NVRAM.  I'veJ seen NVRAM updates screwed up so bad that a full re-init needed to be done from the failsafe loader.r  K In any case.  We are firmly intending to be industry standard on this area.h   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 13:08:52 -0500 A From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star-dot-zko-dot-dec-dot-com>o, Subject: Re: I Have Seen The IA64 Future !!!. Message-ID: <3e760f35$1_1@hpb10302.boi.hp.com>   Please read things carefully!v   There IS NO SRM.   The CONSOLE LIVES IN FLASH ROM.   L The VMS fat-partition disk based boot code is split into two parts which are/ functionally the primary bootstrap for Itanium.   K In addition, the same place where this is located can also house additionalnJ firmware "application" code - such as "optional" HW support not needed forJ booting, or extended diagnostics, or debug tools.  This is "CONSOLE" code,* but only in the sense that it is OPTIONAL.  G You will ONLY need a single media.  A CDROM, or a SCSI disk, or a FibremL disk, or whatever.  The current "floppy" was a hack for the i2000, since theF primary bootstrap code *can* be put onto a seperate media - it doesn't
 *have* to be.t  J PXE (much like BOOTP) is a file based boot.  Diskless network booting willH be done this way - a OS loader/primary bootstrap image will be built and served by the PXE boot service.,      = "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in messager) news:3E74F036.AD283FDB@vl.videotron.ca...h > re: SRM console media. > 1 > Obviously, I guess HP doesn't want "diskettes".G >eI > If all systems had a CDROM, then perhaps could one boot SRM from a CD ?	 >8E > Any chance the IA64 thing could request its SRM via BOOTP or TFTP ?( >dJ > I am concerned that in a cluster, not all nodes would be equipped with a CDROM. >-L > What happens to diskless workstations/nodes in a cluster ? Can the console& > program be loaded via the ethernet ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 10:12:48 -0800g# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>t, Subject: RE: I Have Seen The IA64 Future !!!9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIMECMGNAA.tom@kednos.com>A  B Sounds like Milo and Linload which worked fine on crippled alphas.   >-----Original Message-----AG >From: Fred Kleinsorge [mailto:kleinsorge@star-dot-zko-dot-dec-dot-com]e& >Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 10:09 AM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com- >Subject: Re: I Have Seen The IA64 Future !!!- >- >  >Please read things carefully! >0 >There IS NO SRM.i >r  >The CONSOLE LIVES IN FLASH ROM. >dC >The VMS fat-partition disk based boot code is split into two parts-
 >which are0 >functionally the primary bootstrap for Itanium. >gL >In addition, the same place where this is located can also house additionalK >firmware "application" code - such as "optional" HW support not needed foroK >booting, or extended diagnostics, or debug tools.  This is "CONSOLE" code,c+ >but only in the sense that it is OPTIONAL.e > H >You will ONLY need a single media.  A CDROM, or a SCSI disk, or a FibreC >disk, or whatever.  The current "floppy" was a hack for the i2000,g
 >since theG >primary bootstrap code *can* be put onto a seperate media - it doesn'tg >*have* to be. > K >PXE (much like BOOTP) is a file based boot.  Diskless network booting will I >be done this way - a OS loader/primary bootstrap image will be built andn  >served by the PXE boot service. >e >A >i> >"JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message* >news:3E74F036.AD283FDB@vl.videotron.ca... >> re: SRM console media.s >>2 >> Obviously, I guess HP doesn't want "diskettes". >>J >> If all systems had a CDROM, then perhaps could one boot SRM from a CD ? >>F >> Any chance the IA64 thing could request its SRM via BOOTP or TFTP ? >>K >> I am concerned that in a cluster, not all nodes would be equipped with ad >CDROM.l >>A >> What happens to diskless workstations/nodes in a cluster ? Can9 >the console' >> program be loaded via the ethernet ?u >c >R >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.>; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).oA >Version: 6.0.455 / Virus Database: 255 - Release Date: 2/13/2003> >  ----& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.455 / Virus Database: 255 - Release Date: 2/13/2003   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 10:11:30 -0800y# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>x, Subject: RE: I Have Seen The IA64 Future !!!9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIGECMGNAA.tom@kednos.com>i   >-----Original Message-----.G >From: Fred Kleinsorge [mailto:kleinsorge@star-dot-zko-dot-dec-dot-com]t& >Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 10:02 AM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com- >Subject: Re: I Have Seen The IA64 Future !!!t >C >o > , >"Dirk Munk" <munk@home.nl> wrote in message- >news:b52kvn$iia$1@news2.tilbu1.nb.home.nl...- >-J >> As I understand from an e-mail I got, Intel wants to put (almost ?) all	 >bios/SRMCK >> functions on a FAT formatted disk. Now it all depends on what you call aA >disk.B >> These days we have all kind of solid state devices that can act >as a disk.C >USBL >> memory sticks, flashcards etc. I have no problem with the idea that theseJ >> functions are on such a kind of disk. However putting them on container >file orJ >> a disk partition of a VMS system disk does not sound very attractive to	 >me. If I H >> suspect problems with my system or if I want to upgrade 'firmware', I >would feel2@ >> much more comfortable if I could do that without the risk tof
 >compromising  >myML >> system disk. And how about the portability of a VMS sytem disk etc.? So I >do H >> hope that HP engineering will put all this low-level hardware related >stuff on arL >> memory stick or a flashcard, and keep the VMS system disk as it is today. >> > H >Having been on a corporate task force for the Alpha console, and havingL >lived through a decade of issues - the strategy being taken by EFI/IPF is a >sound one.M > > >There are certain functions that need to be in ROM.  The POST >code, the bootmK >driver code (which can be in the options ROM), the PAL code, the SAL code. / >And that is where it is - in ROM/Flash memory.- >-H >But there is a ton of stuff that *doesn't* need to be in ROM - directedL >tests and diagnostics, debug tools, etc.  The Turbolaser for example eats >A >2mb of runtime memory (and compressed ROM) just for the console.S >TK >The traditional boot-block concept VMS has used for 25 years is also a bitsI >limiting - especially if one day you want to support a multi-OS bootable-I >disk.  So placing the primary bootstrap and OS loader onto the disk also  >makes good sense.  K I have tried in the past with systems which could boot different OS's,  bute I I find them awkward to use, just because you have tbring them down to bring  another H up.  It  is certainly of value for the computer manufacturer in reducing costs,L and that is good, but as a user I would and have just bought more systems to
 accomodateH my OS needs.  I think a preferrable approach is that of IBM which allows
 multiple OS'sN to co-exist  >SI >This doesn't make the IPF VMS system disk non-portable.  To VMS the diskaL >will have a different boot block format (that's OK, we don't plan on commonJ >architecture boot disks), and the home block will have been pushed out toJ >its backup location, and a few other blocks on the disk will be allocated@ >and fixed.  You will be able to mount it on your Alpha, or VAX. >e@ >Upgrading firmware on disk is probably less risky than updating
 >NVRAM.  I'veeK >seen NVRAM updates screwed up so bad that a full re-init needed to be done* >from the failsafe loader. >*L >In any case.  We are firmly intending to be industry standard on this area. >o >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free..; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).oA >Version: 6.0.455 / Virus Database: 255 - Release Date: 2/13/2003  >  --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.455 / Virus Database: 255 - Release Date: 2/13/2003   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 13:23:54 -0500rA From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star-dot-zko-dot-dec-dot-com>i, Subject: Re: I Have Seen The IA64 Future !!!. Message-ID: <3e7612bb$1_3@hpb10302.boi.hp.com>  + "Dirk Munk" <munk@home.nl> wrote in messaged, news:b52st3$ffg$1@news2.tilbu1.nb.home.nl... > Larry Kilgallen wrote:@ > > In article <b52kvn$iia$1@news2.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>, Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> writes: > >s > >oK > >>As I understand from an e-mail I got, Intel wants to put (almost ?) allj bios/SRM& > >>functions on a FAT formatted disk. > >j > >oL > > I thought the explanation at St. Louis DECUS in September was that thereE > > were two possible disk formats, and integrating FAT onto the samet	 structuref/ > > as ODS was the more attractive alternative.6 > >9 > >.L > >>functions on a FAT formatted disk. Now it all depends on what you call a disk.-L > >>                                   Now it all depends on what you call a disk.aH > >>These days we have all kind of solid state devices that can act as a	 disk. USBoG > >>memory sticks, flashcards etc. I have no problem with the idea thatl these K > >>functions are on such a kind of disk. However putting them on containere file orpK > >>a disk partition of a VMS system disk does not sound very attractive to  me. If I > >i > >e > >tG > > Others, however, have said they want to be able to run VMS on _any_nG > > Itanium (-2 or better).  To achieve that technical goal means _not_-C > > depending on a second disk (unless you know that two disks is a G > > requirement of the Itanium architecture.  The idea is to get _away_.I > > from requirements that the hardware be specifically designed for VMS.s > >f > >oI > >>suspect problems with my system or if I want to upgrade 'firmware', Iw
 would feelA > >>much more comfortable if I could do that without the risk tof  compromising mypK > >>system disk. And how about the portability of a VMS sytem disk etc.? SoI I do > >  > >gE > > My understanding from that DECUS conference was that any of thosesC > > "console" functions would count as part of the operating systemg* > > and be installed and upgraded with it. > >t > > I > >>hope that HP engineering will put all this low-level hardware related-
 stuff on aF > >>memory stick or a flashcard, and keep the VMS system disk as it is today. > >Y > >LG > > You seem to be away from the mainstream trend to want VMS no longer D > > to require special hardware (even if made by HP).  To the extentG > > that VMS requires something not required by HP-UX the minimum pricee' > > goes up and VMS becomes more niche.g >e1 > I think we have a bit of misunderstanding here.r >    Yes, you do.  J > First of all I don't want to compromise the new IA64 standard that needs such aG > disk (in whatever shape). So my idea of putting all directly hardwarem relatedhJ > stuff on a solid state disk would be in compliance with those rules as I > understand the rules now.  >g  I There is no requirement for a disk (long term).  But network booting willeL not be in the first release.  There IS NO TECHNICAL ISSUE.  Just a matter of time, resources and priority.n  F > Secondly I distinguish three layers. The first layer is the hardware itself. The K > second layer is the firmware/bios/srm-console or however you want to call  thecK > functionality that is there to do low-level settings of that (!) specificuI > hardware platform, and to offer the operating system a interface to the0K > hardware. The third layer is the operating system with its drivers. In my3 viewH > the second layer belongs to the hardware, not to the operating system. Putting J > the second layer on a fat partition or container disk on the system disk wouldaJ > effectively bind operating system and hardware to one unit. We never had that3 > with VMS, and I would not like to have it either.t >t  ( The CONSOLE FIRMWARE lives in Flash ROM.  G The CONSOLE FIRMWARE knows how to do POST, knows about the HW platform,aK knows about devices (or how to use the option ROMS on devices), the consolenL has a simple human interface program (EFI).  It ALSO knows how to search forC disks which might contain EFI partitions (which means they could be-
 bootable).  J The EFI disk partitions contain the bootstrap code for each OS that can beL booted from the disk.  It ALSO contains EFI "applications" - a C-like shell,1 diagnostics, debug code, even an FTP application!r  J The EFI console in ROM can load the primary bootstrap (OS Loader) from theH disk partition.  It can *also* use TFTP and DHCP to perform a BOOTP-like$ network boot *NO LOCAL DISK NEEDED*.  I OpenVMS has broken our primary bootstrap into two parts - based mostly onsK how they are built.  The OS Loader is a standard EFI application built on ahL Windows system (at present, perhaps eventually on Linux or even VMS).  It isJ small, will seldom change, and is used to load the primary bootstrap (IPB)H which is built in the VMS build.  This code loads SYSBOOT, just like APB loads SYSBOOT.  F The Alpha BOOT BLOCK is a dumb pointer to, and length of APB.  The IPBL bootblock will actually be multiple blocks, and will have pointer and lengthL of a the functional equivalent of IPB -- which will happen to be the EFI FATL partition (which to VMS is just a contiguous file).  This file is actually a> FAT container file, which will contain the OS Loader, and IPB.  L To the CONSOLE this "BOOT BLOCK" looks like a GPT PARTITION record, with VMS and EFI partitions.d  E Long term, you could eventually have disks (say DVDs) which contain 4  operating systems on it.      H > And thirdly, the idea of running VMS on all kind of Intel boxes sounds	 nice, butnH > have you thought of all the junk hardware out there ? Over the years I	 have read G >   about and experienced so many problems with badly designed PC classl	 hardware,iH > that I really shiver with the idea of all the problems that HP will be calledC > for when a VMS system shows problems with non certified hardware.2  J Sure, it's called the hobbyist program.  VMS runs on lots of hardware that it isn't "certified" on.  
 > I prefer touL > get warnings that on a very heavily loaded ES40 it may happen that I loose a:I > byte when writing to a floppy disk (!!), then getting no warning at alla that aK > heavily loaded system may get memory corruption or so because the chipsetE has a K > design fault. So it is ok that VMS can run on any IA64 box, but that doesa not1 > mean you should do it. >o  B And all you need to do it buy HW from HP that VMS is supported on.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 13:26:51 -0500wA From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star-dot-zko-dot-dec-dot-com>b, Subject: Re: I Have Seen The IA64 Future !!!, Message-ID: <3e761371_1@hpb10302.boi.hp.com>   THE CONSOLE IS NOT ON DISK  - Repeat after me.  THE CONSOLE IS NOT ON DISK.e   The CONSOLE IS IN FLASH ROM.  D The DISK based code is NOT CRITICAL to the operation of the CONSOLE.  K The DISK based code is additional code for user directed tasks OR operatingcL system bootstrap code.  It's "corruption" is no worse that what would happen' today of you deleted/corrupted APB.EXE.S      1 "Michael Unger" <unger@decus.de> wrote in messaged% news:00A1CF3E.660039A0.52@decus.de...>0 > "Clair Grant" <clair.grant@verizon.net> wrote: >t > > RE: Slow booting > >iL > > We are using a floppy on the i2000 because we decided to focus the FAT32J > > container file development work on the rx2600. We hard wired the i2000 codeJ > > to look to the floppy or the internal SCSI disk for the FAT files. The twoyK > > files you saw on the i2000 floppy will be on the VMS system disk in theo+ > > FAT32 container file in future systems.r > >aI > > Using the floppy does contribute to the slowness of booting the i2000  but itK > > has nothing to do with the content, only accessing the media. As to any L > > Alpha SRM-like functions we want to have, we will put them in either theG > > boot manager or in EFI applications. (The IA64 boot architecture is  designedK > > so that you can add whatever you want to it.) These get executed in them boot) > > environment prior to running SYSBOOT.e >vH > There is at least one large difference -- if the entire disk subsystemD > fails you can still access and use the SRM console to perform someI > (hardware) tests. This can't be done if the diagnostics routines are in / > the FAT partition (container file) on a disk.d >h	 > Michaelo   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Mar 2003 08:16:43 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)n; Subject: Re: Imination one of the nicests forms of flatteryg3 Message-ID: <Bjk+Al5ZqbfC@eisner.encompasserve.org>R  b In article <3E728AB7.57478638@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes: > http://www-124.ibm.com/dlm/g > E > IBM's DLM for Linux modeled after VAXcluster. And it's opensourced.-  B    At least IBM didn't just steal it from DEC<del><del><del>HP and%    try to make it look like it's own.i   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Mar 2003 05:24:22 -0800( From: baby_p_nut@yahoo.com (Baby Peanut)7 Subject: Re: Is http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/ down?h< Message-ID: <c5cf6e8.0303170524.7e7da2ce@posting.google.com>  M They took my money and I have nothing to show for it after months and months.o  : Now I'm supposed to apologize for what?  Being ripped off?  ` "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3E72998B.E34BA00D@fsi.net>... > Baby Peanut wrote: > > d > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3E7157F8.832FBB0C@fsi.net>... > > > VAXVMS wrote:h > > > >s< > > > > I got a phone call this morning from someone who had? > > > > talked to Mrs. C- the message has been relayed to David ; > > > > and he'll be looking into things as soon as he can.  > > >lK > > > Perhaps someone has discovered that since VMS cannot be attacked, theeK > > > attack must be launched against something running on it that's not asb! > > > bullet-proof as VMS itself.i > > J > > Montagar seems to be just a bunch of thieves anyway.  They took my $300 > > and gave me a CD-ROM that I'm locked out of. > I > You owe these guys a very large public apology. I've met them in personsJ > at DECUS and while we do have some vigorous differences of opinion, theyF > are honest, honorable gents and I am proud just to have a peripheral > association with them. > C > If you have a problem with a product, instead of making an ass of.H > yourself in public, you'd do well to contact the source and attempt toH > seek remediation before you go making public statements that will come) > back to haunt you for a very long time.t > I > You're already on Sue Skonetski's spit list. I would have thought you'ds2 > have learned from that. Apparently, I was wrong.   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Mar 2003 06:01:02 -0800( From: baby_p_nut@yahoo.com (Baby Peanut)7 Subject: Re: Is http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/ down?l< Message-ID: <c5cf6e8.0303170601.46848244@posting.google.com>  t VAXVMS <bounce@notmail.com> wrote in message news:<BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E4903027BD8@rlghncst964.usps.gov>...) > Baby peanut disparaged Montagar thusly:  > >w? > >"David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in messagev& > >news:<3E7157F8.832FBB0C@fsi.net>... > >> VAXVMS wrote: > >> >; > >> > I got a phone call this morning from someone who hade> > >> > talked to Mrs. C- the message has been relayed to David: > >> > and he'll be looking into things as soon as he can. > >>J > >> Perhaps someone has discovered that since VMS cannot be attacked, theJ > >> attack must be launched against something running on it that's not as  > >> bullet-proof as VMS itself. > >TI > >Montagar seems to be just a bunch of thieves anyway.  They took my $30d/ > >and gave me a CD-ROM that I'm locked out of.j > >c > >s > + > I must strongly object to your assertion.  > 0 > David C. is honest and a stand-up guy to boot. >   = > I think enough of him to buy webspace and an email account m > on whiteice.como > = > Explain what you mean by "locked out of" in greater detail:e > " > Tell me (or the group) exactly:  >  > 1.	what you're trying to do,    D Honey, I got the CD-ROM and installed OpenVMS and filled out the webF site to get the PAKs and waited a month and filled out the web site toF get the PAKs again and waited and waited.  If I went to Sun to buy theE $20 copy of Solaris 9 on IA-32 they would have shipped me something IpC could use.  Instead I'm out $30 and have no toy VMS to show for it.b  ( > 2.	what hardware you're running it on, > " > 3.	what commands you're entering > ' > 4.	what messages you're getting back.a > % > If you're having a problem, either e > ! > 1.	we'll straighten you out, or  > = > 2.	if your CD's screwed up, I'm certain that David will be o) > 	glad to exchange it for a replacement.  > F > I foot my posts with information on how I may be contacted directly. > G > Since you apparently don't care to do so, you have to accept the fact-J > that David has no way to contact you and respond to any complaint which  > you may have.v >  > WWWebb > ========================" > William W. Webb - EMS Operations+ > OpenVMS Systems Support - USPS DSSC Annexr. > 4730 Hargrove Road, Raleigh, NC 27616-2874  @ > 919.325.7500 x4186  <FirstInitialLastNameAtEmailDotUSPSDotGov>   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Mar 2003 08:44:16 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)v7 Subject: Re: Is http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/ down?r3 Message-ID: <352ylTg++74b@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  g In article <c5cf6e8.0303170524.7e7da2ce@posting.google.com>, baby_p_nut@yahoo.com (Baby Peanut) writes:tO > They took my money and I have nothing to show for it after months and months.i  B DECUServe managed to renew their licenses in a single day from theB same source, so it looks like the problem is specific to your use.  ) > Now I'm supposed to apologize for what?w  + Newsgroup etiquette, from what I have seen.f   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 10:03:31 -0500d! From: VAXVMS <bounce@notmail.com> 7 Subject: RE: Is http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/ down?eK Message-ID: <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E4903027BD9@rlghncst964.usps.gov>3   Baby Peanut further explained: >o- >VAXVMS <bounce@notmail.com> wrote in messagemH >news:<BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E4903027BD8@rlghncst964.usps.gov>...* >> Baby peanut disparaged Montagar thusly: >> >@ >> >"David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message' >> >news:<3E7157F8.832FBB0C@fsi.net>...8 >> >> VAXVMS wrote:o >> >>i< >> >> > I got a phone call this morning from someone who had? >> >> > talked to Mrs. C- the message has been relayed to Davidc; >> >> > and he'll be looking into things as soon as he can.> >> >>eK >> >> Perhaps someone has discovered that since VMS cannot be attacked, theeK >> >> attack must be launched against something running on it that's not asS! >> >> bullet-proof as VMS itself.r >> >J >> >Montagar seems to be just a bunch of thieves anyway.  They took my $300 >> >and gave me a CD-ROM that I'm locked out of. >> > >> > >>+ >>I must strongly object to your assertion.e >>0 >>David C. is honest and a stand-up guy to boot. >>< >>I think enough of him to buy webspace and an email account >>on whiteice.com  >>= >>Explain what you mean by "locked out of" in greater detail:0 >>! >>Tell me (or the group) exactly:Y >>" >>1.     what you're trying to do, >uE >Honey, I got the CD-ROM and installed OpenVMS and filled out the webtG >site to get the PAKs and waited a month and filled out the web site totG >get the PAKs again and waited and waited.  If I went to Sun to buy thesF >$20 copy of Solaris 9 on IA-32 they would have shipped me something ID >could use.  Instead I'm out $30 and have no toy VMS to show for it. >>   Don't call me honey. o I don't have the legs for it.e   Which user group did you join? s  * (You *did* join a user group, didn't you?)  & from http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist:  L  Licenses are available to members of DECUS, Encompass, or other affiliated L  Compaq User Group. Both Encompass Associate and Members are eligible. There  -  should be a participating Chapter near you. n  * from http://www.montagar.com/htbin/ohpreg:    Hobbyist License Registration  K  A valid DECUS membership number in one of the participating DECUS Chaptersa is  7  required to register for an OpenVMS Hobbyist License. r  #  Currently Participating Chapters:      Encompass US   DECUS Holland    DECUS Switzerland    DECUS Canada   DECUS France   DECUS Asia   DECUS Germany )  DECUS Finland f  DECUS United Kingdom   DECUS Denmark a  DECUS Sweden   DECUS Norway 
  DECUS Belux y
  DECUS Italy i
  DECUS Italy t  DECUS Australia a  DECUS Ireland S  DECUS Russia   DECUS Hungary  
  DECUS Japan e  DECUS South Africa   Compaq New Zealand   B If you didn't join a user group (associate memberships are FREE),  then you WON'T GET LICENSES.   If you s  " 1) didn't follow the instructions,  6 2) didn't contact Montagar within a short time period 2    to tell them that something wasn't working, and  5 3) complained publicly that the process didn't work, m  7 then you've just triply confirmed your twithood to the   group-at-large.y  3 Lydick would have used somewhat different and less u2 tactful terminology than I in these circumstances.  5 If you *did* join one of the above-mentioned groups,   then s  7 4) you should have checked with the pertinent group in w    addition to #2 above.  8 5) you need to be aware that it takes some time for new 5    membership information to filter down to Montagar.i   Now- care to try again?a   WWWebb  , >>2.     what hardware you're running it on, >>& >>3.     what commands you're entering >>+ >>4.     what messages you're getting back.a >>$ >>If you're having a problem, either >>% >>1.     we'll straighten you out, or0 >>@ >>2.     if your CD's screwed up, I'm certain that David will be- >>     glad to exchange it for a replacement.- >>F >>I foot my posts with information on how I may be contacted directly. >>G >>Since you apparently don't care to do so, you have to accept the fact I >>that David has no way to contact you and respond to any complaint whiche >>you may have.e >> >>WWWebb >>========================" >>William W. Webb - EMS Operations+ >>OpenVMS Systems Support - USPS DSSC Annex , >>4730 Hargrove Road, Raleigh, NC 27616-2874@ >>919.325.7500 x4186  <FirstInitialLastNameAtEmailDotUSPSDotGov> ========================  William W. Webb - EMS Operations) OpenVMS Systems Support - USPS DSSC Annexo, 4730 Hargrove Road, Raleigh, NC 27616-2874  > 919.325.7500 x4186  <FirstInitialLastNameAtEmailDotUSPSDotGov>   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 11:27:11 -0400?0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>7 Subject: Re: Is http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/ down?Y/ Message-ID: <3E75E94C.A8240EA2@vl.videotron.ca>.   Baby Peanut wrote: > O > They took my money and I have nothing to show for it after months and months.c  N Didn't you state that you had received the CD ? That is what the money is for.  M Mr Cathay does a SERVICE to the VMS community, in the old spirit of DECUS. HewM doesn't make money by running the hobbyst program, and you should be thankful-# that he has VOLUNTEERED to do this.1   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Mar 2003 16:35:38 GMT, From: bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)7 Subject: Re: Is http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/ down?p6 Message-ID: <b54tgq$25sm70$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>  < In article <c5cf6e8.0303170524.7e7da2ce@posting.google.com>,+ 	baby_p_nut@yahoo.com (Baby Peanut) writes:s  = I don't know why everyone is getting so hot under the collar.tA Personally, I have NEVER placed any value whatsoever on anonymouskC postings.  If you can't identify yourself, your words mean nothing.t   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   a   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 18:22:59 +0100T$ From: Michael Unger <unger@decus.de>7 Subject: Re: Is http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/ down?o+ Message-ID: <00A1D03A.B3A78561.53@decus.de>   + "Baby Peanut" <baby_p_nut@yahoo.com> wrote:e   > Honey, [...] >  > [...]h  4 A rather strange opening for a newsgroup posting ...   Michael:   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 12:44:10 -0500eA From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star-dot-zko-dot-dec-dot-com>c7 Subject: Re: Is http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/ down? . Message-ID: <3e76096a$1_2@hpb10302.boi.hp.com>  , Ah, Baby Peanut must be an Alias for Andrew.      5 "Baby Peanut" <baby_p_nut@yahoo.com> wrote in messageo6 news:c5cf6e8.0303170601.46848244@posting.google.com.... > VAXVMS <bounce@notmail.com> wrote in messageG news:<BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E4903027BD8@rlghncst964.usps.gov>...-+ > > Baby peanut disparaged Montagar thusly:0 > > > A > > >"David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in messageT( > > >news:<3E7157F8.832FBB0C@fsi.net>... > > >> VAXVMS wrote: > > >> >= > > >> > I got a phone call this morning from someone who hadg@ > > >> > talked to Mrs. C- the message has been relayed to David< > > >> > and he'll be looking into things as soon as he can. > > >>L > > >> Perhaps someone has discovered that since VMS cannot be attacked, theL > > >> attack must be launched against something running on it that's not as" > > >> bullet-proof as VMS itself. > > >dK > > >Montagar seems to be just a bunch of thieves anyway.  They took my $30R1 > > >and gave me a CD-ROM that I'm locked out of.f > > >i > > >h > >c- > > I must strongly object to your assertion.  > >s2 > > David C. is honest and a stand-up guy to boot. > >m> > > I think enough of him to buy webspace and an email account > > on whiteice.com0 > >:? > > Explain what you mean by "locked out of" in greater detail:t > >d# > > Tell me (or the group) exactly:e > >   > > 1. what you're trying to do, >@F > Honey, I got the CD-ROM and installed OpenVMS and filled out the webH > site to get the PAKs and waited a month and filled out the web site toH > get the PAKs again and waited and waited.  If I went to Sun to buy theG > $20 copy of Solaris 9 on IA-32 they would have shipped me something IsE > could use.  Instead I'm out $30 and have no toy VMS to show for it.  >l* > > 2. what hardware you're running it on, > >l$ > > 3. what commands you're entering > >r) > > 4. what messages you're getting back.h > > & > > If you're having a problem, either > > # > > 1. we'll straighten you out, ort > >i> > > 2. if your CD's screwed up, I'm certain that David will be* > > glad to exchange it for a replacement. > >rH > > I foot my posts with information on how I may be contacted directly. > >mI > > Since you apparently don't care to do so, you have to accept the fact K > > that David has no way to contact you and respond to any complaint which  > > you may have.k > > 
 > > WWWebb > > ========================$ > > William W. Webb - EMS Operations- > > OpenVMS Systems Support - USPS DSSC Annexd. > > 4730 Hargrove Road, Raleigh, NC 27616-2874B > > 919.325.7500 x4186  <FirstInitialLastNameAtEmailDotUSPSDotGov>   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Mar 2003 13:14:19 -00004 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]>< Subject: Issue building Perl after applying VMS73_ACRTL V3.06 Message-ID: <20030317131419.27926.qmail@nym.alias.net>  7 [Crossposted to comp.os.vms and VMS Perl mailing list.]t  J Prior to trying the Perl 5.8.1 pre-release kit announced by Craig A. BerryK on the VMS Perl mailing list, I checked to ensure I had any outstanding ECO  kits for the C RTL installed.i  G I didn't "need" to apply VMS73_ACRTL V3.0, but I did anyway on a better  safe than sorry basis.  G Following this, I carried out the required reboot and have attempted tonK build the 5.8.1 Perl kit. During the make stage, I get the following error:i  8 Link /NoTrace/NoMap /Shareable=[--.LIB.AUTO.IO]PL_IO.EXE) IO.opt/Option,[--]perlshr_attr.opt/Optionb1 %LINK-W-MULDEF, symbol DECC$POLL multiply definedtA         in module DECC$SHR file SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]DECC$SHR.EXE;1eD %MMK-F-ERRUPD, error status %X10648268 occurred when updating target %[--.LIB.AUTO.IO]PL_IO.EXEK %MMK-F-ERRUPD, error status %X1C14803C occurred when updating target DYNEXTt    % Here's some additional information...t   $ CC/VERSION+ Compaq C V6.4-008 on OpenVMS Alpha V7.3        $ MMK/IDENTs3 %MMK-I-IDENT, this is the MadGoat Make Utility V3.9-    H Can anyone shed any light on this? I have complete logs of the Configure% and (failed) make stages if required.j     Doc. --  : Time and money, the psychotropics of the business world...K ~ VAXman                                             https://vmsbox.cjb.netS   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 13:26:12 -0000p* From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>@ Subject: Re: Issue building Perl after applying VMS73_ACRTL V3.0+ Message-ID: <b54idl$orc@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>a  A "Doc.Cypher" <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in messagee0 news:20030317131419.27926.qmail@nym.alias.net...  I > I didn't "need" to apply VMS73_ACRTL V3.0, but I did anyway on a better. > safe than sorry basis. >l3 > %LINK-W-MULDEF, symbol DECC$POLL multiply defined   @ The latest CRTL ECO adds a poll() function. I guess that's where> the problem arises. IMHO the CRTL ECOs are definitely "installD with caution", and on a "better safe than sorry basis" I would leave' them out. They are, after all, rated 3.n   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 15:22:56 GMTd< From: "John E. Malmberg" <Malmberg@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq.hp>@ Subject: Re: Issue building Perl after applying VMS73_ACRTL V3.00 Message-ID: <kLlda.401$ND1.328@news.cpqcorp.net>   Richard Brodie wrote: C > "Doc.Cypher" <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in messageu2 > news:20030317131419.27926.qmail@nym.alias.net... >  > I >>I didn't "need" to apply VMS73_ACRTL V3.0, but I did anyway on a bettera >>safe than sorry basis. >>3 >>%LINK-W-MULDEF, symbol DECC$POLL multiply definedk > B > The latest CRTL ECO adds a poll() function. I guess that's where@ > the problem arises. IMHO the CRTL ECOs are definitely "installF > with caution", and on a "better safe than sorry basis" I would leave) > them out. They are, after all, rated 3.!  @ This is actually a cross-platform problem with many open-source G programs.  They provide replacement routines that have the same symbol rD names as either missing or routines that they determine do not work 
 correctly.  E This is bad practice as many C compilers will when optimizations are aG enabled (default HP/COMPAQ/DEC C) optimize inline common routines that e? the compiler knows about.  This also occurs on other platforms.V    C If the open-source product or the porter had named the replacement tD routine for foo to be replace_foo, or my_foo, and then used a macro 5 replacement as below, then there would be no problem.s  
 #ifdef foo
 #undef foo #endif* #define foo(x, y, z) replace_foo(x, y, z).    D Maintainers or porters of open-source programs need to take note of F this, because as the C RTL shipped with OpenVMS improves in it's UNIX 3 compatability, more of these problems will show up.   @ And these problems have been reported on other platforms on the B SAMBA-TECHNICAL mailing list.  Usually the better the compiler or D optimization settings, the more likely you are to have this problem.  D  From a programmer's perspective, the names of the standard library A routines in UNIX should be treated as reserved words.  No public g> routine should have the same symbol name as a library routine.  D Doing so can cause undesired behavior that other platforms will not I diagnose, because the compiler will normally use the inline optimization OD   instead of the routine that the programmer thought that they were 	 invoking.,  H To make the compiler and linker behave the classic library search order G where a local routine covers up a system routine requires dumbing down iH both the optimizer and the linking procedure.  This of course will have A performance impacts.  And this problem is not limited to OpenVMS.c  H It is much simpler to code the replacement routine with it's own public 1 symbol, and use a macro to invoke it when needed.v  B A complete online listing of the official UNIX routines and their C functions can be found at http://www.opengroup.org/.  They request iI registration to access their material.  I have never received any e-mail . from them after registering.   -John5! malmberg@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq.hp- Personal Opinion Only-   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 17:46:23 GMTs; From: Charlie McCutcheon <charlie.mccutcheonspam@nothp.com>-@ Subject: Re: Issue building Perl after applying VMS73_ACRTL V3.0) Message-ID: <3E7609EE.755DA211@nothp.com>a  9 >Link /NoTrace/NoMap /Shareable=[--.LIB.AUTO.IO]PL_IO.EXE,* >IO.opt/Option,[--]perlshr_attr.opt/Option2 >%LINK-W-MULDEF, symbol DECC$POLL multiply definedB >        in module DECC$SHR file SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]DECC$SHR.EXE;1E >%MMK-F-ERRUPD, error status %X10648268 occurred when updating target  >%[--.LIB.AUTO.IO]PL_IO.EXEtL >%MMK-F-ERRUPD, error status %X1C14803C occurred when updating target DYNEXT  I As other posters noted, there is a new function poll() in the C Run-Time.o  < From the release notes, which we suggest all customers read:  A       o  The new socket routine poll() is provided with this kit.f ...o       New socket function poll():  A         poll() - Monitors conditions on multiple file descriptorsS           Format              #include <poll.h>  C            int poll(struct pollfd fds[], nfds_t nfds, int timeout);i   ..., <and so on>e  ? >the problem arises. IMHO the CRTL ECOs are definitely "installfE >with caution", and on a "better safe than sorry basis" I would leavef  B Sorry you feel that way.  This particular kit was designed to have' minimal changes from previous releases.s  D All changes on the kit were asked for by active users requiring them before a next OpenVMS release.   Charlie  CRTL engineering   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Mar 2003 23:15:52 -0800# From: dooleys@snowy.net.au (dooley)P1 Subject: Re: Maximum record length allowed in RMSo= Message-ID: <1ca82fc6.0303162315.248116e6@posting.google.com>   U Lee Y T Mah <lytmah@cha.ab.ca> wrote in message news:<3E72671F.8760DA64@cha.ab.ca>...i; > The default value of 32767 for Sysgen parameter RMS_DFLRLf= > would imply that this is the maximum record length allowed.s> > After fiddling around with an FDL file, I was able to create; > an indexed file with a record size of 32,224 bytes (usingS > maximum bucket size of 63).c9 > However, using another FDL file, I was able to create an= > sequential file with maximum record length of 65,535 bytes.l > > > Has anyone experienced success in going beyond these limits?0 there was a thread on this a couple of weeks ago, indexed files have a maximum of about 32,000& (depends on block and record overhead)? I think the parameter RMS_DFLRL is what rms assumes as the max  A record length of those "just-a-stream-of-bytes" files that arriveu from "other" systems.i Phil   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Mar 2003 07:46:12 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)B3 Subject: Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrantsi3 Message-ID: <XYNjBCMpog0d@eisner.encompasserve.org>   b In article <3E7237D2.65C1E5D8@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes:L > So, the americans don't accept that another nation criticises its policies  H    Not true.  Many Americans are happy to have critics.  But they aren't2    the ones squealing like stuck pigs in response.   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Mar 2003 07:56:02 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)h3 Subject: Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrantsa3 Message-ID: <10Q3W9YsB+d5@eisner.encompasserve.org>g  _ In article <m0edncrZyYsE8O6jXTWcpQ@metrocast.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:e  J > Unlike the examples you provide below, however, the above just shows howH > many country music aficionados (especially those in Texas) are Yahoos,3 > rather than reflecting on the fabric our freedom.t  D    Not all of them.  I turned off my radio and put the Chicks in theH    tape player this morning when they refused to play Traveling Soldier.  (    Then I sent a nasty-gram to the show.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 11:23:36 -0400T0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>3 Subject: Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrantsi/ Message-ID: <3E75E876.322AFD38@vl.videotron.ca>e   Bob Koehler wrote:* >    Then I sent a nasty-gram to the show.  L What I find extremely *ODD* and frightening is that at a time where it seemsI that americans are waking up to what is really happening, CNN and friendsMM seems even more convinced that polls are showing increased support for Bush'st unsanctioned invasion of Iraq.  N I watched CNN money line a few times in the last months, and everytime, ALL ofE the comments aired at the end were pro-Bush and anti-French, anti-UN, L anti-Iraq. Even on one day where they had announced that support for war was onlt at 30% (some time ago).  L I get the distinct impression that the media outlets are simply ignoring allM "peace" letters and count only the "lets roll" letters. And I since tuned outoI CNN as a reliable source of news. If CNN has lost "peaceful" watchers and K retained only the "pro Bush ones", then it increases their justification totQ have a pro-war bias since it caters to their remaining viewers. (self selection).r   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 11:45:52 -0500 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>3 Subject: Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants 2 Message-ID: <p9Gdncl-EP9cZuijXTWcpQ@metrocast.net>  H "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:10Q3W9YsB+d5@eisner.encompasserve.org...e@ > In article <m0edncrZyYsE8O6jXTWcpQ@metrocast.net>, "Bill Todd"  <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes: >eL > > Unlike the examples you provide below, however, the above just shows howJ > > many country music aficionados (especially those in Texas) are Yahoos,5 > > rather than reflecting on the fabric our freedom.c >S >    Not all of them.   L I was careful not to generalize excessively above.  But the preponderance ofI reaction (admittedly not a full, balanced sample) reported in the articlea3 suggests that many, quite possibly a majority, are.   1   I turned off my radio and put the Chicks in theeJ >    tape player this morning when they refused to play Traveling Soldier. >s* >    Then I sent a nasty-gram to the show.  C Good for you.  Even if that has little immediate impact, it's stillqH important to make the effort so that silence cannot be interpreted to be assent.o   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 12:02:26 -0500c* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>3 Subject: Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrantsl2 Message-ID: <BfacnYMHWdc-YuijXTWcqg@metrocast.net>  = "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in messagen) news:3E75E876.322AFD38@vl.videotron.ca...  > Bob Koehler wrote:, > >    Then I sent a nasty-gram to the show. >nH > What I find extremely *ODD* and frightening is that at a time where it seemsBK > that americans are waking up to what is really happening, CNN and friends H > seems even more convinced that polls are showing increased support for Bush's  > unsanctioned invasion of Iraq.  I Indeed.  CNN actually does occasionally present sufficient information to J counteract that impression, but consistently slants its generalizations toF support it - though there actually has been some evidence that Dubya'sJ numbers have risen very slightly the more he and his thugs have bashed the U.N. and France.  J I think it may have been CNBC last night (another fairly pro-Dubya outlet)K that released a new poll indicating that while 64% of those polled approvedrK *in general* of the *idea* of our ousting Saddam (and IIRC 70+% approved ifeI the U.N. supported the action), only 53% approved of taking action if the H U.N. failed to pass a second resolution, and only 47% approved of takingJ action if we didn't even submit a second resolution (as is now reported to
 be the case).i   >oI > I watched CNN money line a few times in the last months, and everytime,i ALL ofG > the comments aired at the end were pro-Bush and anti-French, anti-UN,iJ > anti-Iraq. Even on one day where they had announced that support for war wasn > onlt at 30% (some time ago).  E Lou Dobbs is one of the most obviously biased commentators I've seen.aG Perhaps most interesting to me is how much more France and the U.N. aren0 being viewed as our enemies than Iraq itself is.   >tJ > I get the distinct impression that the media outlets are simply ignoring allfK > "peace" letters and count only the "lets roll" letters. And I since tunedo outiK > CNN as a reliable source of news. If CNN has lost "peaceful" watchers and J > retained only the "pro Bush ones", then it increases their justification toG > have a pro-war bias since it caters to their remaining viewers. (self, selection).t  D Being pro-war in this country is probably perceived as having littleB down-side by the media compared with the likely approval of such aI 'patriotic' stance (inconsistent with the Constitutional provisions for aaI free press as that may be).  But given its global nature I wonder whethert+ CNN will pay a significant price elsewhere.t   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 18:11:44 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> 3 Subject: Re: National Moratorium to Appease TyrantsEJ Message-ID: <Adoda.272789$UXa.185342@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com> Keywords: X-No-Archive: yesu  5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messager, news:BfacnYMHWdc-YuijXTWcqg@metrocast.net... >e? > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message + > news:3E75E876.322AFD38@vl.videotron.ca...  > > Bob Koehler wrote:. > > >    Then I sent a nasty-gram to the show. > >eA > > What I find extremely *ODD* and frightening is that at a timer where it > seemslE > > that americans are waking up to what is really happening, CNN andr friendstF > > seems even more convinced that polls are showing increased support forn > Bush's" > > unsanctioned invasion of Iraq. >o< > Indeed.  CNN actually does occasionally present sufficient information to9 > counteract that impression, but consistently slants itsi generalizations to@ > support it - though there actually has been some evidence that Dubya'stA > numbers have risen very slightly the more he and his thugs have 
 bashed the > U.N. and France. >uD > I think it may have been CNBC last night (another fairly pro-Dubya outlet)uD > that released a new poll indicating that while 64% of those polled approvedA > *in general* of the *idea* of our ousting Saddam (and IIRC 70+%o approved ifzD > the U.N. supported the action), only 53% approved of taking action if theC > U.N. failed to pass a second resolution, and only 47% approved ofe taking@ > action if we didn't even submit a second resolution (as is now reported toK > be the case).T >I > > @ > > I watched CNN money line a few times in the last months, and
 everytime, > ALL of@ > > the comments aired at the end were pro-Bush and anti-French, anti-UN,D > > anti-Iraq. Even on one day where they had announced that support for warc > wasg  > > onlt at 30% (some time ago). >dA > Lou Dobbs is one of the most obviously biased commentators I'vea seen.zE > Perhaps most interesting to me is how much more France and the U.N.p aret2 > being viewed as our enemies than Iraq itself is.    E Yes, to a certain extent France is 'playing politics and optics', bute@ so is the US. Just for a bit of balance to the French-bashing, aC perspective that is unlikely to be published in the US. You may noteE agree with it, but it appears to represent the French viewpoint quite B effectively. Read the 4th paragraph of this article carefully, forC this is really the crux of almost all argument posed by all nationsc* against the US position for a rush to war.  F The US is supposed to be a country based on the rule of law, hence theF constitution and the careful separation by the Founding Fathers of theB three branches of the government, and the separation of church andE state. And there is now a president who finds it convenient to ignorerE the rule of international law simply because it is a set of rules andaF laws not enacted by the US Congress. He conveniently forgets that actsD of Congress were in fact proposed, voted upon, and passed, accepting@ just these rules of international law and attorning (look it up)* jurisdiction in certain matters to the UN.  F Bush finds it far more natural and more convenient to play the role ofE Caesar of Imperial Texas than the role of an international statesman.rD I have a funny feeling that the next 10 generations of international< relations are not going to play out as Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/ Wolfowitz/Perle envision.        Why France plays tough  E Jacques Chirac is the most pro-U.S. French president in history, saysdA French analyst GUILLAUME PARMENTIER. To call him anti-American isP	 grotesquey   By GUILLAUME PARMENTIERo    . UPDATED AT 12:53 PM EST  Monday, Mar. 17, 2003  D Many people, especially outside France, wonder why President JacquesB Chirac has gone so far in pushing for a position on Iraq that setsF France apart from the United States and brings it closer to Russia and! China, as well as the Arab world.m  C This is all the more surprising since, after his re-election in MaypF last year, Mr. Chirac embarked, with his foreign minister Dominique deB Villepin, on a course of rapprochement with the United States thatC culminated in the successful negotiation of United Nations Security3B Council Resolution 1441 last autumn when the subject of Iraq first? arose. Jacques Chirac was the first head of state to visit thenaF president-elect George W. Bush, the first also to visit Washington andF New York after 9/11. He is unquestionably the most pro-American FrenchD president in history on cultural and emotional grounds. RepresentingA him as anti-American, as some now do in Washington, is grotesque.   E Indeed, on the diagnosis of the Iraqi problem, there is not much that C divides France from its "Anglo-Saxon" partners. France participatedtC actively in the UN inspection teams between 1991 and 1998, and tookaD the issue of Iraqi illegal armaments very seriously, both because itE recognized their danger in the hands of Saddam Hussein and because itnD was important for its diplomacy that UN Security Council resolutionsA be implemented. France was always ready to contemplate the use of.E military force to oblige Saddam Hussein to implement its obligations.   E Contrary to Germany, France's policy is not inspired by pacifism. TheoD important thing, however, was that the willingness to use force was,B and was perceived to be, a last resort and that no automaticity inD resorting to war was created. This is how Resolution 1441 is read inC Paris, and, indeed, in most of continental Europe: that it is up to(C the inspectors to tell the Security Council whether the inspectionsl? are achieving the disarmament of Iraq, and that the decision to ? further the inspections or to use force belongs to the council.4  C Where France differs from the United States is in its assessment ofrD the urgency of the issue. In French eyes, Iraq is far less dangerousF today than it was in the 1980s, when it was helped by certain powerfulD countries. It is justifiable to pursue efforts to bring about Iraq'sF disarmament, but this does not have to become the central issue of theD age. Other countries are more dangerous and should not be encouragedC to think that international lack of attention allows them to pursuee* threatening policies at little or no cost.  = North Korea and, in a different sense, Pakistan come to mind.iF Terrorism, and especially Islamic-inspired terrorism, should be foughtB by a united international community, and efforts should be made toD avoid action that would encourage a number of people in the Arab andC Muslim world to rally to terrorism's cause. Furthermore, it is idleoB and even potentially destabilizing to isolate the Iraqi issue fromF that of the larger Middle East. Other countries in the region, such asD Iran and Israel, own weapons of mass destruction, and Iraqi policiesA to obtain them will continue as long as these other countries aree allowed to hold on to them.d  ; It is also dangerous to maintain a lopsided attitude to thea? Israeli-Palestinian conflict while taking a very muscular stando@ against an Arab country. Such an approach encourages the belief,C already too common among Muslims the world over, that the West, and E especially the United States, is bent on an anti-Muslim "crusade." OnnD all these matters, the French viewpoint is close to that of Britain,C even though the policies of the two partners are so much at odds at  present.  C Paris started to part with Washington around the middle of January,aA when the French perceived that the U.S. administration, includingo> Secretary of State Colin Powell, had lost patience with SaddamE Hussein's prevarication and had decided that war was the only option.a  F France took the opposite view, and felt vindicated by the increasinglyC confident tone of inspectors Hans Blix and Mohamed ElBaradei duringt their reports to the council.   C This, combined with the celebrations of the 40th anniversary of the1A French-German treaty that led President Chirac to assert that the-B positions of the two allies were "identical" on the issue, led theE press to portray France as the leader of the "peace camp" and furthermD polarized the positions of the U.S. and Britain. An unfortunate spatA during a Security Council meeting further diminished the personalg- trust between Mr. Powell and Mr. de Villepin.t  2 In recent weeks, positions polarized even further.  D France was opposed to a new Security Council resolution and, in realF terms, would have been less uncomfortable with the United States going@ to war on the basis of Resolution 1441 alone. Unfortunately, theB domestic political needs of British Prime Minister Tony Blair wereE exactly opposite and the Bush administration went "the extra mile" inA( the UN process for the sake of its ally.  E This led France to organize the opposition to a new resolution in the9E Security Council (with some success, evidenced by the fact that therexA is apparently no majority to support the resolution) and this, in:A turn, made it difficult for France not to threaten the use of its E veto, if only in order to be taken seriously by the undecided councila members.  F Wielding the veto is a complex matter. As long as there is no majorityF on the Security Council in favour of the U.S./U.K./Spain resolution, aE French vote of "non" will not constitute a veto, only support for thel? majority, but the likelihood of this happening would be greatlyaD diminished unless it was clear that France was ready to vote againstC the resolution in all circumstances, including the use of its veto.e  E From a purely national standpoint, Jacques Chirac has calculated that>F the damage done to French-U.S. relations by the events of the past twoF months is such that France would not be thanked in the U.S., should itB choose now to abandon its opposition. Indeed, France would only be@ seen as difficult but cowardly, fulfilling the expectations of a@ number of American diplomats who are convinced that, in the end,C France always caves in to pressure. While, on the other hand, there F would be much for France to lose among the opponents of U.S. policies.  C By maintaining its position in difficult circumstances, France wills@ keep the benefit of the sympathy that its stance of the past fewD months has created the world over. The price of this is high, but it is not an insignificant result.o  A Guillaume Parmentier, director of the French Centre on the UnitedIC States in Paris, is author of Reconcilable Differences: U.S.-Frencho Relations in the New Era.g   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Mar 2003 07:53:14 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)s0 Subject: Re: National Moratorium to Stop the War3 Message-ID: <LbwSNoyBoEQs@eisner.encompasserve.org>   b In article <v74m8i5v9734cf@corp.supernews.com>, "Alan Boyles" <alan.boyles@mindspring.com> writes:N > This is not the forum for <stuff> like this, this is a forum for VMS relatedG > activites.  If you want to voice political opinions go somwhere else.S      What planet are you from?  E    Sure, I like to see more VMS stuff in this forum, but it's way tooaB    late to cut the daily events and ensuing political discussions.   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Mar 2003 08:46:54 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)a0 Subject: Re: National Moratorium to Stop the War3 Message-ID: <U45TyFWVQOsd@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  q In article <LbwSNoyBoEQs@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:fd > In article <v74m8i5v9734cf@corp.supernews.com>, "Alan Boyles" <alan.boyles@mindspring.com> writes:O >> This is not the forum for <stuff> like this, this is a forum for VMS related H >> activites.  If you want to voice political opinions go somwhere else. >  >    What planet are you from? > G >    Sure, I like to see more VMS stuff in this forum, but it's way too D >    late to cut the daily events and ensuing political discussions.  B The reason that Usenet is divided into _separate_ newsgroups is soB individuals can pick and choose the topic areas they want to read.  H Attempts to undermine this are as impolite as any other form of anarchy.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 12:16:58 -0500m* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>0 Subject: Re: National Moratorium to Stop the War2 Message-ID: <KLGdnTv_kuqWnuujXTWcqA@metrocast.net>  : "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message- news:U45TyFWVQOsd@eisner.encompasserve.org...r5 > In article <LbwSNoyBoEQs@eisner.encompasserve.org>, = koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: A > > In article <v74m8i5v9734cf@corp.supernews.com>, "Alan Boyles"i$ <alan.boyles@mindspring.com> writes:I > >> This is not the forum for <stuff> like this, this is a forum for VMSc relatedfJ > >> activites.  If you want to voice political opinions go somwhere else. > >   > >    What planet are you from? > >=I > >    Sure, I like to see more VMS stuff in this forum, but it's way toouF > >    late to cut the daily events and ensuing political discussions. >1D > The reason that Usenet is divided into _separate_ newsgroups is soD > individuals can pick and choose the topic areas they want to read.  I Er, that's *one* reason for the division, but another important one is to2H provide communities.  And sufficiently important events get discussed by< communities even if they're outside the nominal topic areas.  I By the way, the reason that Usenet posts have subject headings is also sonL that individuals can pick and choose the topics they want to read.  You seemL to have missed the utility of this additional layer in this particular case,C because unlike many discussions the heading has remained relativelydI consistent with the underlying discussion (well, the sub-thread on Israel H wandered off somewhat, but hardly in any manner which would affect those/ interested in avoiding such topics in general).u   >hJ > Attempts to undermine this are as impolite as any other form of anarchy.  J And attempts to enforce it rigidly are equally impolite.  In this case, noL 'attempt' was made to 'undermine' anything:  my initial post was informativeJ in nature, was clearly labeled as off-topic, and included no invitation toI further discussion.  When a significant portion of the community chose to D initiate a discussion anyway, in a manner which in no way forced the@ participation of others who were not interested, it was entirely appropriate.   - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Mar 2003 03:39:25 -0800$ From: fakharmtc@hotmail.com (Fakhar) Subject: Newbie Please Helpa= Message-ID: <f925d8ca.0303170339.52cda84f@posting.google.com>r  
 Hello All,  1 I am a newbie in VMS/VAX and desperately finding s7 the following information related to VAX 3100 Model 30.   5 1: From where can I get a Floppy drive for this modele2 2: Is there Free version of VMS for VAX available : 3: How can I install/run OpenVMS on my Pentium II computer    $ Please this is very important for me   Fakhar Imran   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 11:03:57 -0400p0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> Subject: Re: Newbie Please Help3/ Message-ID: <3E75E3DD.3F18336B@vl.videotron.ca>o  
 Fakhar wrote:d2 > I am a newbie in VMS/VAX and desperately finding9 > the following information related to VAX 3100 Model 30.b > 7 > 1: From where can I get a Floppy drive for this model   L It is normally included with the system. And it is not needed for the system to function properly.o  3 > 2: Is there Free version of VMS for VAX availablea  [ For non-commercial use at home, yes. Lookup "VMS Hobbyist". I think http://www.montagar.comi  < > 3: How can I install/run OpenVMS on my Pentium II computer  N Not directly, but there is at least one VAX emulator that runs on windows that: can provide a VAX environmnet from which you can boot VMS.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 11:20:50 -0500h! From: VAXVMS <bounce@notmail.com>a Subject: Re: Newbie Please HelpsK Message-ID: <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E4903027BDA@rlghncst964.usps.gov>S  ) "Fakhar"  [fakharmtc@hotmail.com] writes:b >a >Hello All,t >m1 >I am a newbie in VMS/VAX and desperately findingr8 >the following information related to VAX 3100 Model 30. >b6 >1: From where can I get a Floppy drive for this model     HP   Island Computing'   Great Lakes Computing, to name a few.u  2 >2: Is there Free version of VMS for VAX available     Only for noncommercial use. 2   See http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist for details  ; >3: How can I install/run OpenVMS on my Pentium II computerl     You can't.  % >Please this is very important for me  >d
 >Fakhar Imrano ========================  William W. Webb - EMS Operations) OpenVMS Systems Support - USPS DSSC Annexl, 4730 Hargrove Road, Raleigh, NC 27616-2874  > 919.325.7500 x4186  <FirstInitialLastNameAtEmailDotUSPSDotGov>   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 12:05:46 -0500   From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> Subject: Re: Old is newo6 Message-ID: <1030317120424.26522A-100000@Ives.egh.com>  $ On Sat, 15 Mar 2003, JF Mezei wrote:   > Larry Kilgallen wrote:! > > > http://www-124.ibm.com/dlm/y > > < > > Please don't waste our time by posting undescribed URLs. > > 8 > > Others - It is a distributed lock manager for Linux. > M > Please don't complain when you have some people killfiled and you don't seed; > the original messages where the URLs have been described.     F I don't have anyone killfiled, and I didn't see any "original message"B containing anything but the bare URL.  Also, it wasn't marked as a followup to anything else.     -- o John Santosa Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Mar 2003 04:42:42 -08000 From: keith.cayemberg@conti.de (Keith Cayemberg)N Subject: OpenVMS at CeBIT 2003 - more  info on hp OpenVMS Industry Standard 64= Message-ID: <3a65a5c8.0303170442.6dbcde87@posting.google.com>-  P I have also visited CeBIT last Friday. OpenVMS can be found at Hall 1 Stand 7i2.P There were 2 demonstration booths, and at least 4 OpenVMS representatives (plus N a partner representative) present at the time I visited.  I have been to each O CeBIT since 1993, and I consider this to be a typical good solid representationeD of OpenVMS. It's been about the same for at least the last 5 years.   R The first presentation with the partner TeMPO Consulting was of the BaseStar Open J Product especialy the Human Machine Interface (HMI) process visualisation Q component, and the new OPC connection capabilitities. I believe they had BaseStartH running on a partition of the Marvel Machine which stood directly behind the two VMS booths.k  ) BaseStar is has the following homepage..._? http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/software/solutions/basestar/F  L I believe the BaseStar presentation to be an example of hp direct marketing,I since I know of a major manufacturer based in Hanover which uses VMS and hD BaseStar in its many European factories as an integral part of it's J Computer-Aided-Manufacturing systems. I also heard they had a meeting with this company the same morning.  @ As already reported in another thread, the second booth showed a: hp OpenVMS Industry Standard 64  Technology Demonstration.H Here I will try to give a snapshot of this relatively recent developmentJ stand. I wish to first paraphrase the caution told to me about making any K conclusions concerning the final product from the technology demonstration. L "The port is still in an early stage, and many aspects of the implementation> may still experience some flux compared to the final product."    Here is in general what I saw...  H As already reported in an other thread, the boot still requires the help; of code from a floppy disk. Please see the thread titled...1I "I Have Seen The IA64 Future!!!" for more detail on this temporary state.   < They would run a DCL Procedure which contained the followingL apparently correctly functioning commands (but not performed in this order).P Note: I do not have a complete verbatim copy of the demo, I only only wrote downJ some of more interesting output. This however  should be all the commands  shown in the demo.  E $ dir            !output as seen from the reports of the boot contest,  L $ show system    !showed complete header, and only the 3 following processes OpenVMS X9N0-02L   SWAPPER" SYSINITg/ STARTUP           ! this is the current processi  A $ show device     ! I don't remember the output from this command1   $ wait  I $ show process/acounting  ! I don't remember the output from this commanda  H $ show mem    ! this command had more than one terminal screen of output Main Mem 1023.60 MBi4 Lock Manager Dyn Mem   496 KB total  79.50 KB in use4 NonPage Dyn Mem       4.35 MB total   0.28 MB in use4 Paged Dyn MEm         3.37 MB total   0.98 MB in use No Paging Files installedl( 13919 Pages permanently allocated to VMS File Data Cache disabled  & $ write sys$output f$getsyi("HW_NAME") Generic Itanium Platform  ( $ write sys$output f$getjpi("","PRCNAM") STARTUPy  O I was told that the OpenVMS X9N0-02L shown in the demo was at least 4 days old.p  H The demo does at least show that the development has progressed somewhat2 from performing only a directory without crashing.     Cheers!    Keith Cayembergc   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Mar 2003 07:04:33 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)iR Subject: Re: OpenVMS at CeBIT 2003 - more  info on hp OpenVMS Industry Standard 643 Message-ID: <1DYAHLk8CAMa@eisner.encompasserve.org>h  p In article <3a65a5c8.0303170442.6dbcde87@posting.google.com>, keith.cayemberg@conti.de (Keith Cayemberg) writes:  R > I have also visited CeBIT last Friday. OpenVMS can be found at Hall 1 Stand 7i2.  . Thank you for sharing your experience with us.  + > BaseStar is has the following homepage...oA > http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/software/solutions/basestar/r > N > I believe the BaseStar presentation to be an example of hp direct marketing,K > since I know of a major manufacturer based in Hanover which uses VMS and lF > BaseStar in its many European factories as an integral part of it's L > Computer-Aided-Manufacturing systems. I also heard they had a meeting with  > this company the same morning.  D I have seen the name BaseStar for years, but never knew any details.0 Is it more prominent in Europe than in the USA ?   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 14:27:47 GMTr# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>oR Subject: Re: OpenVMS at CeBIT 2003 - more  info on hp OpenVMS Industry Standard 64H Message-ID: <DXkda.57924$a41.17875@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  : "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message- news:1DYAHLk8CAMa@eisner.encompasserve.org... ? > In article <3a65a5c8.0303170442.6dbcde87@posting.google.com>,i2 keith.cayemberg@conti.de (Keith Cayemberg) writes: >pB > > I have also visited CeBIT last Friday. OpenVMS can be found at Hall 1 Stand 7i2.e >t0 > Thank you for sharing your experience with us. > - > > BaseStar is has the following homepage...fC > > http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/software/solutions/basestar/p > >wE > > I believe the BaseStar presentation to be an example of hp direct.
 marketing,D > > since I know of a major manufacturer based in Hanover which uses VMS andlB > > BaseStar in its many European factories as an integral part of it'sA > > Computer-Aided-Manufacturing systems. I also heard they had ae meeting with" > > this company the same morning. >IF > I have seen the name BaseStar for years, but never knew any details.2 > Is it more prominent in Europe than in the USA ?  A I may well be wrong about this, but isn't it based on the old DEC/C factory automation protocol? Stu Fuller, I think, was at Ford for ai@ long time and from the old Compuserve VAXforum days I recall him! writing about its use there. Stu?u   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Mar 2003 10:43:05 -08001 From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski)tL Subject: OpenVMS Pearl - Monday March 17 Compare/merge tool that runs on VMS= Message-ID: <857e9e41.0303171043.2cfe6034@posting.google.com>s   -----Original Message----- From: Skonetski, Susan i% Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 11:05 AMN To: Skonetski, SusanE Subject: OpenVMS Pearl - Monday March 17 ok for external distributionr -       # Folks (Distribution lists are BCC),l  C Here is an OpenVMS Pearl submitted by an engineer and it is a greatu one.  Thank you very much John.e  
 Warm Regards,I Sueh   -----Original Message----- From: Howard, John E  $ Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 9:18 AM To: Skonetski, Susan Subject: OpenVMS Pearl?h   Sue,  < Here is a link to a compare/merge tool that runs on OpenVMS:  " http://www.guiffy.com/openvms.html  A It has the OpenVMS shark right in the middle of the page. In thiseD case, the shark is a link to the Java SDK download page. Here's that link:   2 http://h18012.www1.hp.com/java/download/index.html  D Aside from the coolness of the shark, this is a software developmentE tool that was originally developed on Windows and is now pushing intol  OpenVMS as a market opportunity.   John Howard    OpenVMS Engineering    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 10:41:50 +0000 ' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK ConsultancylM Subject: Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marvelandd. Message-ID: <3E75A66E.9060800@nospamn.sun.com>   Main, Kerry wrote: > Andrew ..c >   7 Since we are talking about TPC-C in database terms this  divides down into.  ' > - Some apps are suited for clustering   1 TPC-C, HA, small subset of DBMS's that will scalee well in a cluster.  ( > - Some apps are suited for SMP systems   The vast majority of DBMS apps.   B > - Some apps are suited for both large SMP systems AND clustering >   @ HA, plus apps that have exhausted the performance of the largest single SMP node available.  % > Sigh .. but you knew this already.   >   3 Did you you seem very confused about which category: to put TPC-C in.  9 Actually it really falls into a category which you didn't:: include which was shared nothing collections of nodes. Its< a bit too strong to describe this as a cluster because TPC-C2 requires virtually none of the cluster components.      ; Global filesystems and devices, no that would just slow youn down.a  & DLM, no that would just slow you down.  / HA heartbeat, no that would just slow you down.t  ; Fast cluster interconnect, no that would just cost too much  and you don't need it.  ; Shared storage subsystem, no that would just cost too much.n  < The worlds fastest TPC-C result from HPQ conforms exactly to< the above rules, it isn't a cluster its just a collection of servers.  9 Even a "cluster" of WEB servers has more claim to being at8 cluster than the TPC-C artifact bacause at least the WEB5 servers are all able to deliver the same service to av common pool of clients.c  6 The TPC-C config on a per node basis delivers a unique+ database service to a fixed set of clients.c   > Time to move on... >    Hopefully !r   Regardsr Andrew HarrisonC  	 > Regards  >  > Kerry Main > Solutions Architectu > Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.# > Consulting & Integration Servicess > Voice: 613-592-4660- > Fax   : 613-591-4477 > Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com >  >  > -----Original Message-----) > From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancya1 > [mailto:Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com] 2 > Sent: March 12, 2003 7:34 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComeE > Subject: Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release fornJ > Marveland Alpha Retain Trust Alpha Retain Trust Alpha Retain Trust AlphaG > Retain Trust Alpha Retain Trust Alpha Retain Trust Alpha Retain Trusts' > Alpha Retain Trust Alpha Retain Trustt >  >  >  >  > Main, Kerry wrote: > 	 >>Andrew,e >>F >>Sigh .. One more time - if you do not agree with the TPC rules, get F >>the TPC Council to change them. Don't continue bringing up this old ? >>argument which has been discussed a few hundred times before.n >>F >>The TPC says the GS benchmark is fine. You disagree. Fine - so have % >>Sun lobby to get the rules changed.  >> >  > I > Thats not the point and you know it. The TPC-C rules don't preclude thelE > cluster in a box config or the shared nothing config because no onelH > expected them to be used when the origional run rules were written andJ > given TPC-C's majority voting rules and the fact that Compaq, HP and IBMH > have all sunk substantial sums on money into producing results of this: > type it is unlikely that rule changes are in the offing. > 8 > None of this alters the fact that the cluster in a box8 > config or the shared nothing configs now present a set5 > of TPC-C results that have no use in the real worldQ5 > because very few real world apps are as amenable to0 > this kind of setup as TPC-C. > = > That was not the origional intention when TPC-C was writtent8 > to be a tool for measuring the relative performance of/ > systems running a set of simple OLTP queries.i > E > Compaq was the first vendor to come out with a shared nothing TPC-CoI > result and this pioneering approach has helped end TPC-C's relevance as  > an OLTP benchmark. > 	 > Regardsa > Andrew Harrisond >  > 	 >>Regards, >> >> >>Kerry Main >>Senior Consultant  >>Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.# >>Consulting & Integration Servicesf >>Voice: 613-592-4660h >>Fax   : 613-591-4477 >>Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom/ >>    (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s) ! >>OpenVMS DCL - the original .COMo >> >>-----Original Message-----* >>From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy 0 >>[mailto:Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com] >>Sent: March 10, 2003 10:49 AM  >>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com-F >>Subject: Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for D >>Marveland Alpha Retain Trust Alpha Retain Trust Alpha Retain Trust >> >>H >>Kerry only you could inject a GS1280 performance benchmark result into >  > E >>a discusion about Compaq/HP's inability to justify the performance  % >>claims they made for the GS160/320.e >>; >>And trust you to try to reintroduce the TPC-C results forn6 >>the GS320 which if you hadn't forgotten are actually9 >>evidence for the prosecution not the defense since theyn3 >>prove that there is a big NUMA performance issue.e >>7 >>Had you forgotten that you used a cluster in a box too >>get decent performance.a >>5 >>And had yopu also forgotten that this is one of the 4 >>reasons why Sun doesn't do TPC-C, because the kind4 >>of tuning method used by indevidual companies such> >>as Compaq has degrade the value of the benchmark as a whole. >>< >>You are as always tremendous value but not to your allies. >>	 >>Regards  >>Andrew HarrisonB >>Main, Kerry wrote: >> >> >>>Tim,o >>>)8 >>><<< .  And I'm afraid, you just lost the argument.<<< >>>oI >>>If you have been lurking for awhile, then you know that no matter what7 >> >>F >>>evidence HP puts up, Andrew is going to counter with his own fud toF >>>counter it. That's fine - he's a competitor and that is his way of ( >>>promoting his own companies products. >>> C >>>Case in point - he asks where are some performance numbers. Ok - I >>>http://www.sap.com/benchmark/index.asp?content=http://www.sap.com/benc  >>>hmh >>>ark/sd2tier.asp >>>nG >>>Sun - 1,789,000 dialog steps per hr - 72 cpu Sunfire 15K Oracle 9i -wI >>>Feb 10, 2003 HP - 1,393,000 dialog steps per hr - 32 cpu GS1280 Oraclee >> >> >>>9i - Jan 27/2003  >>>oE >>>Given Oracle charges per cpu, I'd say the GS1280 does ok. Note thetG >>>dates of release. Sun felt they needed to have a bigger number, but e, >>>needed 72 CPUs to get that bigger number. >>>iF >>>And even his age old argument about the GS320 - still on the top 10I >>>single system TPC, while Sun has 0 entries on the TPC list. Reference:N >> >>I >>>http://www.tpc.org/tpcc/results/tpcc_perf_results.asp?resulttype=noncld >>>ush >>>ter&version=5 >>>  >> >>H >>>Now, Andrew will respond with but, but, but .. And so it continues... >>>m
 >>>Regards >>>s >>> 
 >>>Kerry Main  >>>Senior Consultant >>>Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.h$ >>>Consulting & Integration Services >>>Voice: 613-592-4660 >>>Fax   : 613-591-4477i >>>Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcomh/ >>>   (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s) " >>>OpenVMS DCL - the original .COM >>>e >>>-----Original Message-----y8 >>>From: Tim Walls [mailto:timwa@stamford.snowgoons.com] >>>Sent: March 7, 2003 7:11 PM >>>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComG >>>Subject: Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for p >>>Marveland Alpha Retain Trusta >>>8 >>>.; >>>In article <mqnh6vsel43b1vpf9usq1g05nhpc4oc2kb@4ax.com>,A, >>>	jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com> writes: >>>> >>>e >>>eI >>>>On Fri, 07 Mar 2003 17:07:14 +0000, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancye >>>p > 2 >>>><Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote: >>>>H >>>>Typical Andrew useless response.  Still saying that I have to prove E >>>>that the GS160s perform well on some apps, while he still hasn't tI >>>>proven his contention that it won't perform well for any apps.  What   >>>>ah >>>  >>>y
 >>>>crock. >>>n >>>rH >>>No offence, but I speak as an independent observer who's been lurkingI >>>in this group for quite a while...  And I'm afraid, you just lost the N >>>argument. >>>sD >>>Jesus, what is it with you guys?  (That is, HP+Cpaq et al.)  As aF >>>customer, I'd kinda expect you to jump at the chance to prove your G >>>product performs well.  This whole "if you don't think our stuff is rI >>>great it's obviously because you're ignorant - go on, prove me wrong" FI >>>attitude is just one reason why I won't be spending my company's moneyD >> >>H >>>on your kit.  Which is a crying shame, because I have a great deal of6 >>>respect for DEC and the engineers who produced VMS. >>>dG >>>I find it depressing because I think competition is a good thing for5D >>>development.  But you aren't competing - you're clinging on to a F >>>rapidly shrinking customer base while trying to pretend it doesn't G >>>matter because the people on 'your' side are somehow better, and so IG >>>more important, than everyone else on 'their' side.  But eventually  I >>>everyone on 'your' side is going to be dead, and by then it'll be too n >>>late. >>>i	 >>><Sigh>n >>>a >>>Regards,eB >>>Tim.  (A lurker, who lurks because he respects VMS - but has no >>	 >>respect  >> >>, >>>      at all for its vendor right now...) >> >> >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 10:07:46 +0000n' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy Y Subject: Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marveland Alpha Retaia. Message-ID: <3E759E72.7060909@nospamn.sun.com>   Main, Kerry wrote:	 > Andrew,a > D > <<< In almost all real scenarios rather than TPC-C  and the othersE > mentioned below. Clustering for scalability will cost you more thanfH > buying a larger SMP server and will give you more variable results.<<< > I > Please .. SMP servers have scaling issues due to cpu cache invalidationsJ > issues and NUMA servers have issues if memory locality is not taken into > consideration. >   4 Please try not to be too condescending, it makes the. fact that you are getting rather confused over6 terminology more rather than less embarassing for you.  ? Most NUMA systems are also SMP systems as well. The GS160/320'sn are SMP.  < NUMA is a description of the memory subsystem stands for Non Uniform Memory Architecture.  9 So both the issues you describe apply to the GS160/320's.v      H > In both cases, it depends on how well the application and database are5 > designed and/or tuned for that particular platform.t > E > It may be Sun's experience that cluster solutions do not scale, butlJ > please don't assume that this is also the case with other vendor cluster > solutions. >   < Well come up with some actual examples apart from TPC-C thatA prove you conjecture then. Should be a very interesting challenge  for you.  > Remember we do have numbers for RAC on Solaris vs RAC on HP-UX= that show that at least in that example your conjecture isn'tE true.T   regardsl Andrew Harrisonn  	 > Regardsu >  > Kerry Main > Senior ConsultantA > Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.# > Consulting & Integration Services  > Voice: 613-592-4660w > Fax   : 613-591-4477 > Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom/ >     (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s)o! > OpenVMS DCL - the original .COMl >  >  > -----Original Message-----) > From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancyr1 > [mailto:Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com] y > Sent: March 12, 2003 7:22 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com E > Subject: Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for D > Marveland Alpha Retain Trust Alpha Retain Trust Alpha Retain Trust >  >  >  >  > Keith Parris wrote:n > $ >>Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy ; >><Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message -, >>news:<3E6CB3FF.1070701@nospamn.sun.com>... >> >>8 >>>Had you forgotten that you used a cluster in a box to >>>get decent performance. >> >>H >>Vendors use various creative configurations of technologies to get the >  > E >>best performance, especially for benchmarks.  Unless the benchmark  H >>rules prohibit a particular optimization, all's fair.  It happens that >  > @ >>clustering is one way to scale.  If Sun can't gain additional - >>performance through clustering, tough luck.f >  > A > Great posting, but you have just displayed a staggering lack ofdJ > understanding about how TPC-C works when run on a cluster. Or rather how > it doesn't run on a cluster. > H > TPC-C's warehouse scheme and clients executing queries against a fixedJ > warehouse makes the TPC-C workload perfectly partitionable and thereforeF > almost perfectly scalable in a "cluster" because the resulting setup, > makes almost no use of the cluster itself. > F > The largest TPC-C benchmark results in terms of throughput have beenH > posted by the vendors who have been prepared to put the largest numberH > of servers into a benchmark facility connected together using a bit of
 > wet string.  > D > OpenVMS supports Memory Channel a very low latency interconnect toH > improve cluster perfromance and scalability, HP have HyperChannel, youH > could also use Myranet or SCI and if you really wanted to go for brokeI > then you could use SunFire Link now guess what the fastest "cluster" inn0 > the world as far as TPC-C is concerned used ?? > G > Yup Gigabit Ethernet, no shared storage, single connection per server  > etc etc etc. > F > Now this is entirely within the TPC-C rules, but it doesn't make theG > result any more usefull and it only serves to reduce the value of theuE > benchmark result as a whole, if only because people like me have toeG > explain to people like you that the configuration used by Compaq (who I > were the offendor) is worthless as a platform to host the vast majority,( > of update intensive OLTP applications. > ; > Sun doesn't depreciate clustering far from it we have onerF > of the lowest latency highest bandwidth cluster interconnects on the? > market (SunFire Link) and you don't get that without a goodlyu
 > investment.s > @ > But there are appropriate and inappropriate uses of clustering > technology with databases. >  > Inappropariate uses are: > C > Scalability for databases unless you happen to have exhausted theqG > throughput of the largest DBMS server you can buy. In almost all real I > scenarios rather than TPC-C  and the others mentioned below. ClusteringpH > for scalability will cost you more than buying a larger SMP server and& > will give you more variable results. >  > J > Hiding SMP NUMA latency issues by clustering in a box, just go and buy a- > better designed system from another vendor.e >  > Appropriate uses are:M > I > High availability/DR, TPC-C and other perfectly partitionable databaseso > and read only DBMS's.h >  > G > To illustrate this we have just run a set of cluster benchmarks along I > with HP for a customer. We used 4 CPU nodes and SCI HP used 4 CPU nodescJ > and HyperChannel (we had tried GigE earlier and it didn't do very well).H > Shared storage parallel DBMS. We did better than HP from a scalabilityD > and throughput standpoint but even from a hardware perspective theG > customer concluded that buying F6800/F15K with the same capacity as 4lD > node cluster would be cheaper once you factored in the node costs,J > interconnect costs and the shared storage costs. This didn't include the? > additional per CPU costs for the DBMS or the parallel option.i > 	 > Regardsa > Andrew Harrisona >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 12:42:35 -0500aA From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star-dot-zko-dot-dec-dot-com>AY Subject: Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marveland Alpha Retais. Message-ID: <3e76090b$1_2@hpb10302.boi.hp.com>  K "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> 9 wrote in message news:3E759E72.7060909@nospamn.sun.com...  >n >s > Main, Kerry wrote: > > Andrew,t > >iF > > <<< In almost all real scenarios rather than TPC-C  and the othersG > > mentioned below. Clustering for scalability will cost you more than J > > buying a larger SMP server and will give you more variable results.<<< > >rK > > Please .. SMP servers have scaling issues due to cpu cache invalidation L > > issues and NUMA servers have issues if memory locality is not taken into > > consideration. > >l >o6 > Please try not to be too condescending, it makes the0 > fact that you are getting rather confused over8 > terminology more rather than less embarassing for you. > A > Most NUMA systems are also SMP systems as well. The GS160/320'sm
 > are SMP. >a  L No.  The S in SMP is for Symetric.  It isn't.  It is a MP system - a NUMA MPJ system, more specific - a cache coherent, directory based, NUMA MP system.A It many respects it may function (and can be treated) much like a E traditional SMP system, but because of the asymetric nature of memoryaJ access, there are real differences that the OS must take into account, andL which *some* applications will benefit in performance if they also are awareL that all CPUs may not be equal (in access to portions of memory).  It *is* a- different beast from true classic SMP design.U  A In fact, *some* other HW platform designers from another company,wI deliberately slowed all memory access to that of "far" memory - purely tofE preserve the ability for the OS and applications to function as a SMPr system.y   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 11:29:10 +0000 (UTC)e+ From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb).: Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants+ Message-ID: <b54bi6$i5h$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>y  a In article <3E754E5F.7FF9ED6@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes:t >John Smith wrote:7 >> When employees don't like The New HP Way, they quit.rB >> When Arafat's people don't like his way, they wind up dead in a+ >> gutter. I'd call that effective control.e >wM >The other side of the coin might reveal that if Arafat became too "peaceful"r# >his own people might gun him down.v >rL >I am not sure if Arafat (the person) really has full control and freedom toO >act and how much the radicals in his "group" might not actually control thingse+ >and force Arafat to thoe THEIR party line.r  M This is exactly the problem which has made the Northern Ireland peace processfL so difficult.  Neither Gerry Adams nor David Trimble can move too far or too8 quickly since they risk losing control of their parties.  J Gerry Adams risks losing the support of the IRA for the peace process and M a return to terrorism if he does anything which the hardliners interpret as a-O "surrender". David Trimble risks being ousted as leader of the Ulster UnionistslN if he cannot make Sinn Fein/IRA produce concessions such as the destruction of armaments. m  sN Arafat is almost certainly in exactly the same position as Gerry Adams. IndeedL he is almost certainly in a worse position since he's influence on HAMMAS isI probably considerably less than his influence on his own PLO. Gerry Adams>M potentially faced the same problem when hardliners split from the IRA to form O the Real IRA but the revulsion in Ireland following a Real IRA attrocity  - the N OMAGH bombing - led to a suspension of activity by the Real IRA which gave theL peace process a chance to get started and has left the Real IRA marginalised ever since.n  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 12:37:46 +0000 ' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancye: Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants. Message-ID: <3E75C19A.5000806@nospamn.sun.com>   David Webb wrote:lc > In article <3E754E5F.7FF9ED6@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes:X >   P > Arafat is almost certainly in exactly the same position as Gerry Adams. IndeedN > he is almost certainly in a worse position since he's influence on HAMMAS isK > probably considerably less than his influence on his own PLO. Gerry AdamstO > potentially faced the same problem when hardliners split from the IRA to formoQ > the Real IRA but the revulsion in Ireland following a Real IRA attrocity  - thesP > OMAGH bombing - led to a suspension of activity by the Real IRA which gave theN > peace process a chance to get started and has left the Real IRA marginalised
 > ever since.s >   F One major issue is that there are very few alternatives to negociating@ with Arafat who by all accounts is a difficult and sometimes not entirely rational negociator.a  ? Ironically Mossad's assasination of Abu Jihad the then militaryr= commander of Fatah and Arafats second in command, in Tunis iniB 1988 may have removed one of the more likely candidates to replace< Arafat. Abu Jihad was well respected by the Palestinians and> was by all accounts a more pragmatic more reasoned leader than Arafat.    regardss Andrew Harrisond   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Mar 2003 07:50:40 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)a: Subject: Re: OT Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants3 Message-ID: <eUd2Nr$76Fgl@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  \ In article <87znnwblok.fsf@prep.synonet.com>, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes:? > koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:  > F >>    But it is the first time the US has gone to war without a direct? >>    provocation.  That's something no nation should rush intoc >>    anymore. > D > No, you have gone to was as a result of an unprovoked attack. Your  > schooling was filled with it.       When and where?   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 11:19:26 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>t; Subject: Re: OT: Something everyone should ask their Doctort; Message-ID: <01KTMNTJWEIQ9H1MPS@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>n  ' > > Please don't post uncommented URLs.- > ? > Some people here go ballistic when somebody posts copyrightedr9 > material, so the posting of a URL avoids that reaction.s  E No-one has EVER complained about posting copyrighted material if one  C posts a COMMENTED URL, i.e. the URL and a brief description of the n& contents, not the contents themselves.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 12:23:17 -0500e% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>H; Subject: Re: OT: Something everyone should ask their Doctorl/ Message-ID: <v7c146iuloja6e@news.supernews.com>n  : "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message- news:1Rer9aSGAZYB@eisner.encompasserve.org...@@ > In article <v7aa9934dfl24f@news.supernews.com>, "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> writes: > > Only slightly off topic: > >aL > > http://www.comics.com/creators/speedbump/archive/speedbump-20030307.html >o% > Please don't post uncommented URLs.r   The subject was my comment.t   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Mar 2003 12:02:57 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) ; Subject: Re: OT: Something everyone should ask their Doctoro3 Message-ID: <jfzdAMl2pvbV@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <v7c146iuloja6e@news.supernews.com>, "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> writes:p< > "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message/ > news:1Rer9aSGAZYB@eisner.encompasserve.org...oA >> In article <v7aa9934dfl24f@news.supernews.com>, "John Vottero"- > <John@mvpsi.com> writes: >> > Only slightly off topic:o >> >M >> > http://www.comics.com/creators/speedbump/archive/speedbump-20030307.htmlA >>& >> Please don't post uncommented URLs. >  > The subject was my comment.m  F Your comment was inadequate for us to evaluate whether the information& at that URL was worth our pursuing it.   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Mar 2003 18:50:33 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon); Subject: Re: OT: Something everyone should ask their Doctore6 Message-ID: <b555dp$24ig2o$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>  3 In article <jfzdAMl2pvbV@eisner.encompasserve.org>,i0 	Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:Y > In article <v7c146iuloja6e@news.supernews.com>, "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> writes: = >> "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message 0 >> news:1Rer9aSGAZYB@eisner.encompasserve.org...B >>> In article <v7aa9934dfl24f@news.supernews.com>, "John Vottero" >> <John@mvpsi.com> writes:a >>> > Only slightly off topic: >>> >-N >>> > http://www.comics.com/creators/speedbump/archive/speedbump-20030307.html >>>>' >>> Please don't post uncommented URLs.1 >> 7 >> The subject was my comment. > H > Your comment was inadequate for us to evaluate whether the information( > at that URL was worth our pursuing it.  ? Actually, I think it was quite adequate.  Which is why I didn'tt bother visiting the site.  :-)   bill   -- uJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   h   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 19:16:40 +0200s% From: "Mariuz" <mariuz@stop.spam.org>i4 Subject: Removing Obsolete Target Systems In GCC 3.49 Message-ID: <pan.2003.03.17.17.16.37.30258@stop.spam.org>m   raditionally, GCC has been more receptive to requests that a particular target not be removed if a volunteer is available to maintain that target, so if you're interested in volunteering you should state that explicitly."i    vax-*-bsd*n  vax-*-sysv*  vax-*-netbsd*aout*r  vax-*-vms*n    I "If you feel strongly that support for one of these targets should not besG removed, please contact me by email ASAP.  (I will maintain the list.) cH Traditionally, GCC has been more receptive to requests that a particularB target not be removed if a volunteer is available to maintain thatE target, so if you're interested in volunteering you should state thataG explicitly.  Also, "there are 1000 of us using this machine heavily all E day long and we were planning to upgrade to GCC 3.4" is probably more G likely to sway the development team than "I think there is still one ofw those in my closet." :-)  3 spoted on http://www.kerneltrap.org/node.php?id=605    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Mar 2003 08:37:36 -08002 From: abhijitbhosale@hotmail.com (Abhijit Bhosale) Subject: RMS-F-KNM error= Message-ID: <c7d01eb4.0303170837.161d215e@posting.google.com>e   Hi, 4 I am getting following error, when I run my program.6 %RMS-F-KNM, key name buffer not accessible for key = 0  1 It's sample program to write in to a index file. h: At the first time, when the file doesn't exists, it writes  the records without any problem.@ But when I try to run it again(or when outfile already exixts),  it gives the error.  What could be the problem?  4 Please let me know if you want any more information.    
 - Regards, Abhijito       Sample program -------------------------- <snip>    out_rec write_rec;n0    int count = 0;   char fn[30] = {"OUTFILE_1"};<    fab =  cc$rms_fab;               /* Initialize FAB     */%    fab.fab$l_dna =  DEFAULT_FILE_EXT;"/    fab.fab$b_dns =  sizeof DEFAULT_FILE_EXT -1;y+    fab.fab$b_fac =  FAB$M_DEL | FAB$M_GET |r*                     FAB$M_PUT | FAB$M_UPD;    fab.fab$l_fna =  fn;i    fab.fab$b_fns =  strlen(fn);u    fab.fab$l_fop =  FAB$M_CIF;     fab.fab$w_mrs =  RECORD_SIZE;    fab.fab$b_org =  FAB$C_IDX;    fab.fab$b_rat =  FAB$M_CR;r    fab.fab$b_rfm =  FAB$C_FIX ;n    fab.fab$b_shr =  FAB$M_NIL;!    fab.fab$l_xab =  &primary_key;i  <    rab =  cc$rms_rab;              /* Initialize RAB      */      rab.rab$l_fab =  &fab;o    rab.rab$b_krf =  0;3    rab.rab$l_kbf =  (char *) &(write_rec.username);e    rab.rab$b_ksz =  SIZE_UNAME;o    rab.rab$b_rac = RAB$C_KEY;w;    primary_key =  cc$rms_xabkey;   /* Initialize Primary  *M<                                     *  Key XAB            */%    primary_key.xab$b_dtp = XAB$C_STG;     primary_key.xab$b_flg = 0; ;    primary_key.xab$w_pos0 =  (char *) &write_rec.username - 1                              (char *) &write_rec;h      primary_key.xab$b_ref =  0;'    primary_key.xab$b_siz0 = SIZE_UNAME;M'    primary_key.xab$l_knm = "User Name";6       rms_status =  sys$open(&fab);!    if (rms_status != RMS$_NORMAL)M    {$      rms_status =  sys$create(&fab);%      if (rms_status != RMS$_NORMAL &&t$          rms_status != RMS$_CREATED)          error_exit("$CREATE _");  $      if (rms_status == RMS$_CREATED),        printf("[Created new data file.]\n");    }     <snip>   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Mar 2003 08:22:01 GMT) From: rankin@pactechdata.com (Pat Rankin) ) Subject: Re: Samba Missing stropts.h filet/ Message-ID: <17MAR200300204594@pactechdata.com>d  < In article <3e74203a.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>,\#  martin@radiogaga.harz.de writes...e< > Alan Adams (alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk) wrote:* [ obtaining compiler version information ] >> A Fortran trick might work: >>! >> FORTRAN /LIS=TT: /NOOBJECT TT:Y >> <CTRL-Z>n >>8 >> The listing from compiling nothing shows the version. >76 > Then, of course, the second "TT:" should read "NL:". >bI > And yes, this also works with DEC C (where older versions would requiren > a file to compile).   A      No it doesn't.  DEC C's listing format suppresses pagination B when writing to a terminal.  Since the compiler version is part ofC the page headers, you won't see it unless you direct the listing to A a file and then examine that.  (Ok, you could manually decode the B value of the __DECC_VER macro that shows up at the end, but that's@ moderately obscure and sufficiently old versions might lack it.)   > Simpler yet, IIRC: >s > $ CC /VERSION NL:a  B      Early versions of DEC C didn't support that, and the original@ poster stated that it wasn't working for him so evidently he has an old version of the compiler.A  2                 Pat Rankin, rankin@pactechdata.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 09:04:21 +0100O4 From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr>( Subject: Re: send mail from an intranet?& Message-ID: <3E758185.7000303@Free.fr>   Michael Rice wrote:l   >KB > I believe this has something to do with the way the VMS Mail is I > working.  Using Mozilla Mail & News, I don't have any problems sending l > to any domains.    I don't either.t   D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 09:08:13 +0100b4 From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr>( Subject: Re: send mail from an intranet?& Message-ID: <3E75826D.3020206@Free.fr>   Michael Austin wrote:h  E >If your IP address is a dynamic address, it is very likely that mosteI >companies will reject it because the domain name of your system does notn< >match the reverse address lookup domain.  My ISP requires aH >u/p@ispdoimain.net to be able to authenticate before relaying the mail.C >I have not gone to the trouble of figuring out how to set up an MXe. >record or gateway that would fix this issue.  > H I have an intranet with four systems and four fixed addresses, the ADSL E router does the link to the Internet and one of the systems (an iMac rI with OS X) does Internet sharing. So, I do not think that this direction o is a good one. Thanks anyway.   D.   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 09:52:03 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>-( Subject: Re: send mail from an intranet?; Message-ID: <01KTMKDBOKXU9FRD0S@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>V  @ > I have an intranet behind a Router and an ADSL link to my ISP.3 > When I try to "exit" from my PWS via mail, I get:c  H This is the ONE problem with my DSL connection I haven't sorted out yet!  F > If your IP address is a dynamic address, it is very likely that mostJ > companies will reject it because the domain name of your system does not= > match the reverse address lookup domain.  My ISP requires agI > u/p@ispdoimain.net to be able to authenticate before relaying the mail.ID > I have not gone to the trouble of figuring out how to set up an MX/ > record or gateway that would fix this issue. n  E I don't think that's the problem here, since I have the same problem oA with the same setup, but have NEVER (with one exception) had any tI problems sending mail via my ISDN router.  In this case, the VMS machine  E has a public IP address, but there is no reverse-DNS entry (i.e. one t- can't find the machine name from the number).l  C Considering that many machines have many names and one number, and tG considering that while several names might return the same number, the  G reverse is not possible, if what you say is true such problems must be  # much more widespread than they are.a  H I think the problem is probably related to what domain the mail appears I to come from.  If this is non-existent, or if it translates to something vG other than the IP address the mail is from, yes, it might get rejected.t  G My DSL connection, for instance, makes it look like the mail came from tH XXX.de, where XXX.de is a real domain but has nothing to do with me, my H ISP or any settings on my machine.  I think the ISP is probably setting H this XXX mistakenly (since it corresponds to the name of my street) and = not realising that there is a registered domain by this name.s  H In other words, if the IP address doesn't translate, no problem, but if I the domain translates to something other than the IP address, then there  
 is a problem.   D I think that /SUBSTITUTE_DOMAIN and/or TCPIP$SMTP_FROM can probably  solve this problem.   H The exception: after I FTP'd you the LYNX stuff, I sent you an email to F let you know it was there, but this got rejected with a "get a life!" 6 message!  :-|  (This was sent via my ISDN connection.)  F By the way, I've written a DCL-client for DynDNS.org (it assumes that I LYNX is installed and that one is running HP's TCPIP service (the latter tI assumption is not a problem since this can be changed easily).  One part mH of it interacts with a LINKSYS router, though one could probably change F this easily for others.  (My other router is a rebadged Zyxel, but it G has a built-in DynDNS.org client which appears to work fine.)  I'll be  I putting it up when I get time.  In the meantime, send me an email if you s want a "beta version" sooner.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 11:59:45 +0100v$ From: "Peter Flunger" <p-i-b@gmx.at>( Subject: Re: send mail from an intranet?0 Message-ID: <b549r2$h81$1@newsreader1.netway.at>  3 "PRSTSC::DTL" <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr> wroter) > ---- Transcript of session follows ----r >a; > 553  %TCPIP-E-SMTP_COMMANDERR, SMTP command error free.fr  >s" > ---- Unsent message follows ----= If you havent't fixed that yet, try to trace the SMTP session@: of your PWS with the SMTP gateway it is trying to connect." On one session start a TCPIP Trace+ $TCPTRACE /FULL/PACKETS=1000/PORT=REMOTE=25 6 on another session send an SMTP mail and watch for the= communication dialog between your system and the SMTP server. 5 I am pretty sure, you will see, why you are rejected.i Peter    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 12:45:51 +0100u4 From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr>( Subject: Re: send mail from an intranet?& Message-ID: <3E75B56F.6010803@Free.fr>   Phillip Helbig wrote:o  G >By the way, I've written a DCL-client for DynDNS.org (it assumes that oJ >LYNX is installed and that one is running HP's TCPIP service (the latter J >assumption is not a problem since this can be changed easily).  One part I >of it interacts with a LINKSYS router, though one could probably change hG >this easily for others.  (My other router is a rebadged Zyxel, but it  H >has a built-in DynDNS.org client which appears to work fine.)  I'll be J >putting it up when I get time.  In the meantime, send me an email if you  >want a "beta version" sooner. >  h >aE Vielen danke, Phillip (I thought you were American :-) but I have AT nD LAST my fixed IP address (thanks to a new ADSL ISP folk in the Team I here: NERIM). So, I gave the fixed IP  to the ADSL router (Olitec MX200) aA with full LAN/WAN services, such like port redirection, and I do fG Internet Sharing via my iMac OS X. This allows me to be able to telnet aF to my Alpha, FTP to my iMac and HTTP to my PC from "outside"! T'was a ) few years that I was waiting for that :-)P  $ D (who does not sell his HW anymore)   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 13:35:08 +0100 (MET)s9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>a( Subject: Re: send mail from an intranet?; Message-ID: <01KTMSBZQKDI9H1MPS@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>T  I > >By the way, I've written a DCL-client for DynDNS.org (it assumes that  L > >LYNX is installed and that one is running HP's TCPIP service (the latter L > >assumption is not a problem since this can be changed easily).  One part K > >of it interacts with a LINKSYS router, though one could probably change  I > >this easily for others.  (My other router is a rebadged Zyxel, but it rJ > >has a built-in DynDNS.org client which appears to work fine.)  I'll be L > >putting it up when I get time.  In the meantime, send me an email if you   > >want a "beta version" sooner. > >  e > >HG > Vielen danke, Phillip (I thought you were American :-) but I have AT    D I used to be.  I came to Germany 20 years ago as an exchange student3 and---to make a long story short---decided to stay.b  F > LAST my fixed IP address (thanks to a new ADSL ISP folk in the Team K > here: NERIM). So, I gave the fixed IP  to the ADSL router (Olitec MX200) uC > with full LAN/WAN services, such like port redirection, and I do vI > Internet Sharing via my iMac OS X. This allows me to be able to telnet iH > to my Alpha, FTP to my iMac and HTTP to my PC from "outside"! T'was a + > few years that I was waiting for that :-)e  < Note that this SHOULD be possible with a dynamic IP address.  ? By the way, the "rebadged Zyxel" router mentioned above is the eI Teledat 400 which one can buy from Deutsche Telekom.  As I mentioned, it fE has a built-in client for DynDNS.org, which seems to work fine.  The tH support folks there recommend not using such hardware clients, but said G they haven't had any problems with Zyxel.  It also supports Custom DNS   and Static DNS as well.   G It is perhaps a bit overpriced, but it seems to work well to get a VMS >G box fully accessible via DSL.  In contrast to many other such routers,  C it has not just a WWW interface but also a telnet interface, which  F brings one into an ASCII menu.  Actually, I've just looked briefly at B the web interface; I could configure all I needed from the telnet D interface.  (The ASCII menu also has an option to bring up the CLI.)  C What it does not have is the ability to forward not just port X to fI address A, but port X to port Y at address A.  I'm not sure, but I don't 3G think it has a "keep alive" function.  My other DSL router, a Linksys,  D has these two features, but doesn't have the built-in DynDNS client.  ? I have the actual DSL connection from the Telekom.  (There are e; alternatives, but pricy.)  My ISP is 1&1, whom I recommend.g   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 13:26:29 +0100 4 From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr>( Subject: Re: send mail from an intranet?& Message-ID: <3E75BEF5.4080407@Free.fr>   Peter Flunger wrote:  4 >"PRSTSC::DTL" <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr> wrote >,) >>---- Transcript of session follows ----g >>; >>553  %TCPIP-E-SMTP_COMMANDERR, SMTP command error free.frt >>" >>---- Unsent message follows ---- >>> >If you havent't fixed that yet, try to trace the SMTP session; >of your PWS with the SMTP gateway it is trying to connect. # >On one session start a TCPIP TraceD, >$TCPTRACE /FULL/PACKETS=1000/PORT=REMOTE=257 >on another session send an SMTP mail and watch for the.> >communication dialog between your system and the SMTP server.6 >I am pretty sure, you will see, why you are rejected. >Peter >p >s >l  . New mail on node DTL02 from DTL02::HTTP$SERVERP --------------------------------------------------------------------------------  eC    TCPIPtrace full display XMT packet 99 at 17-MAR-2003 13:13:30.790  7D    IP Version = 4,  IHL = 5,  TOS = 00,   Total Length = 48 = ^x00305    IP Identifier  = ^x8DB4,  Flags (0=0,DF=0,MF=0),  iG          Fragment Offset = 0 = ^x0000,   Calculated Offset = 0 = ^x0000tF    IP TTL = 60 = ^x3C,  Protocol = 6 = ^x06,  Header Checksum = ^xE21D'    IP Source Address      = 192.168.0.3e&    IP Destination Address = 62.4.16.71  6    TCP Source Port = 49184,  TCP Destination Port = 254    TCP Sequence Number      = 934082558 = ^x37ACF7FE,    TCP Acknowledge Number   = 0 = ^x000000003        Flags (URG=0,ACK=0,PSH=0,RST=0,SYN=1,FIN=0),hB                                            Window = 61440 = ^xF0007    TCP Checksum = ^x9543,   Urgent Pointer = 0 = ^x0000u  H    TCP Option = 2 MAXSEG Option Length = 4, Segment Size = 1460 = ^x05B4      TCP Option = 1 NODELAYa  H    0300A8C0   1DE2063C   0000B48D   30000045    0000    E..0....<.......H    00000000   FEF7AC37   190020C0 | 4710043E    0010    >..G. ..7.......H  | 00030301   B4050402   00004395   00F00270    0020    p....C..........  dP  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------  tD    TCPIPtrace full display RCV packet 101 at 17-MAR-2003 13:13:30.86  oD    IP Version = 4,  IHL = 5,  TOS = 00,   Total Length = 48 = ^x00305    IP Identifier  = ^x6CDB,  Flags (0=0,DF=1,MF=0),  oG          Fragment Offset = 0 = ^x0000,   Calculated Offset = 0 = ^x0000oF    IP TTL = 62 = ^x3E,  Protocol = 6 = ^x06,  Header Checksum = ^xC0F6&    IP Source Address      = 62.4.16.71'    IP Destination Address = 192.168.0.3   6    TCP Source Port = 25,  TCP Destination Port = 491845    TCP Sequence Number      = 2910401170 = ^xAD793292 4    TCP Acknowledge Number   = 934082559 = ^x37ACF7FF3        Flags (URG=0,ACK=1,PSH=0,RST=0,SYN=1,FIN=0), B                                            Window = 57344 = ^xE0007    TCP Checksum = ^xC54E,   Urgent Pointer = 0 = ^x0000s  H    TCP Option = 2 MAXSEG Option Length = 4, Segment Size = 1420 = ^x058C      TCP Option = 1 NODELAYr  H    4710043E   F6C0063E   0040DB6C   30000045    0000    E..0l.@.>...>..GH    FFF7AC37   923279AD   20C01900 | 0300A8C0    0010    ....... .y2.7...H  | 00030301   8C050402   00004EC5   00E01270    0020    p....N..........   Q  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------u  aD    TCPIPtrace full display XMT packet 102 at 17-MAR-2003 13:13:30.86  dD    IP Version = 4,  IHL = 5,  TOS = 00,   Total Length = 40 = ^x00285    IP Identifier  = ^x8DB6,  Flags (0=0,DF=0,MF=0),  lG          Fragment Offset = 0 = ^x0000,   Calculated Offset = 0 = ^x0000lF    IP TTL = 60 = ^x3C,  Protocol = 6 = ^x06,  Header Checksum = ^xE223'    IP Source Address      = 192.168.0.3n&    IP Destination Address = 62.4.16.71  6    TCP Source Port = 49184,  TCP Destination Port = 254    TCP Sequence Number      = 934082559 = ^x37ACF7FF5    TCP Acknowledge Number   = 2910401171 = ^xAD793293p3        Flags (URG=0,ACK=1,PSH=0,RST=0,SYN=0,FIN=0),eB                                            Window = 61440 = ^xF0007    TCP Checksum = ^xE0EA,   Urgent Pointer = 0 = ^x0000u  H    0300A8C0   23E2063C   0000B68D   28000045    0000    E..(....<..#....H    933279AD   FFF7AC37   190020C0 | 4710043E    0010    >..G. ..7....y2.H                        | 0000EAE0   00F01050    0020    P.......          oQ  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------H  iD    TCPIPtrace full display RCV packet 109 at 17-MAR-2003 13:13:31.16  kE    IP Version = 4,  IHL = 5,  TOS = 00,   Total Length = 132 = ^x008425    IP Identifier  = ^x70D8,  Flags (0=0,DF=1,MF=0),  pG          Fragment Offset = 0 = ^x0000,   Calculated Offset = 0 = ^x0000 F    IP TTL = 62 = ^x3E,  Protocol = 6 = ^x06,  Header Checksum = ^xBCA5&    IP Source Address      = 62.4.16.71'    IP Destination Address = 192.168.0.3   6    TCP Source Port = 25,  TCP Destination Port = 491845    TCP Sequence Number      = 2910401171 = ^xAD793293 4    TCP Acknowledge Number   = 934082559 = ^x37ACF7FF3        Flags (URG=0,ACK=1,PSH=1,RST=0,SYN=0,FIN=0), B                                            Window = 58220 = ^xE36C7    TCP Checksum = ^x7377,   Urgent Pointer = 0 = ^x0000   H    4710043E   A5BC063E   0040D870   84000045    0000    E...p.@.>...>..GH    FFF7AC37   933279AD   20C01900 | 0300A8C0    0010    ....... .y2.7...H    6E697262   20303232 | 00007773   6CE31850    0020    P..lsw..220 brinH    45207465   6E2E6D69   72656E2E   72617473    0030    star.nerim.net EH    2E38206C   69616D64   6E655320   50544D53    0040    SMTP Sendmail 8.H    6E6F4D20   3B352E32   312E382F   362E3231    0050    12.6/8.12.5; MonH    33312033   30303220   72614D20   3731202C    0060    , 17 Mar 2003 13H    45432820   30303130   2B203332   3A34313A    0070    :14:23 +0100 (CEH                                     0A0D2954    0080    T)..               Q  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------x   D    TCPIPtrace full display XMT packet 110 at 17-MAR-2003 13:13:31.16  eD    IP Version = 4,  IHL = 5,  TOS = 00,   Total Length = 56 = ^x00385    IP Identifier  = ^x8DBA,  Flags (0=0,DF=0,MF=0),   G          Fragment Offset = 0 = ^x0000,   Calculated Offset = 0 = ^x0000oF    IP TTL = 60 = ^x3C,  Protocol = 6 = ^x06,  Header Checksum = ^xE20F'    IP Source Address      = 192.168.0.3e&    IP Destination Address = 62.4.16.71  6    TCP Source Port = 49184,  TCP Destination Port = 254    TCP Sequence Number      = 934082559 = ^x37ACF7FF5    TCP Acknowledge Number   = 2910401263 = ^xAD7932EFu3        Flags (URG=0,ACK=1,PSH=1,RST=0,SYN=0,FIN=0),bB                                            Window = 61440 = ^xF0007    TCP Checksum = ^xD704,   Urgent Pointer = 0 = ^x0000e  H    0300A8C0   0FE2063C   0000BA8D   38000045    0000    E..8....<.......H    EF3279AD   FFF7AC37   190020C0 | 4710043E    0010    >..G. ..7....y2.H    6C746420   4F4C4548 | 000004D7   00F01850    0020    P.......HELO dtlH                          0A0D6C74   642E3230    0030    02.dtl..          lQ  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------p  (D    TCPIPtrace full display RCV packet 114 at 17-MAR-2003 13:13:31.23  jE    IP Version = 4,  IHL = 5,  TOS = 00,   Total Length = 137 = ^x0089r5    IP Identifier  = ^x71CD,  Flags (0=0,DF=1,MF=0),  wG          Fragment Offset = 0 = ^x0000,   Calculated Offset = 0 = ^x0000FF    IP TTL = 62 = ^x3E,  Protocol = 6 = ^x06,  Header Checksum = ^xBBAB&    IP Source Address      = 62.4.16.71'    IP Destination Address = 192.168.0.3t  6    TCP Source Port = 25,  TCP Destination Port = 491845    TCP Sequence Number      = 2910401263 = ^xAD7932EF 4    TCP Acknowledge Number   = 934082575 = ^x37ACF80F3        Flags (URG=0,ACK=1,PSH=1,RST=0,SYN=0,FIN=0),-B                                            Window = 58220 = ^xE36C7    TCP Checksum = ^xD8B0,   Urgent Pointer = 0 = ^x0000i  H    4710043E   ABBB063E   0040CD71   89000045    0000    E...q.@.>...>..GH    0FF8AC37   EF3279AD   20C01900 | 0300A8C0    0010    ....... .y2.7...H    6E697262   20303532 | 0000B0D8   6CE31850    0020    P..l....250 brinH    48207465   6E2E6D69   72656E2E   72617473    0030    star.nerim.net HH    6E61726F   6D726569   64696420   6F6C6C65    0040    ello didiermoranH    656E2E6D   6972656E   2E317465   6E2E6964    0050    di.net1.nerim.neH    33312E37   34312E31   342E3331   325B2074    0060    t [213.41.147.13H    6D206F74   20646573   61656C70   202C5D37    0070    7], pleased to mH                     0A   0D756F79   20746565    0080    eet you..         cQ  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------   oD    TCPIPtrace full display XMT packet 116 at 17-MAR-2003 13:13:31.23  cD    IP Version = 4,  IHL = 5,  TOS = 00,   Total Length = 75 = ^x004B5    IP Identifier  = ^x8DBE,  Flags (0=0,DF=1,MF=0),  pG          Fragment Offset = 0 = ^x0000,   Calculated Offset = 0 = ^x0000-F    IP TTL = 60 = ^x3C,  Protocol = 6 = ^x06,  Header Checksum = ^xA1F8'    IP Source Address      = 192.168.0.3m&    IP Destination Address = 62.4.16.71  6    TCP Source Port = 49184,  TCP Destination Port = 254    TCP Sequence Number      = 934082575 = ^x37ACF80F5    TCP Acknowledge Number   = 2910401360 = ^xAD793350s3        Flags (URG=0,ACK=1,PSH=1,RST=0,SYN=0,FIN=0),9B                                            Window = 61440 = ^xF0007    TCP Checksum = ^x4D65,   Urgent Pointer = 0 = ^x0000C  H    0300A8C0   F8A1063C   0040BE8D   4B000045    0000    E..K..@.<.......H    503379AD   0FF8AC37   190020C0 | 4710043E    0010    >..G. ..7....y3PH    4F524620   4C49414D | 0000654D   00F01850    0020    P...Me..MAIL FROH    64407265   76726573   24707474   683C3A4D    0030    M:<http$server@dH                 0A0D3E   6C74642E   32306C74    0040    tl02.dtl>..       tP --------------------------------------------------------------------------------  vD    TCPIPtrace full display RCV packet 119 at 17-MAR-2003 13:13:31.50  NE    IP Version = 4,  IHL = 5,  TOS = 00,   Total Length = 140 = ^x008C 5    IP Identifier  = ^x730B,  Flags (0=0,DF=1,MF=0),   G          Fragment Offset = 0 = ^x0000,   Calculated Offset = 0 = ^x0000eF    IP TTL = 62 = ^x3E,  Protocol = 6 = ^x06,  Header Checksum = ^xBA6A&    IP Source Address      = 62.4.16.71'    IP Destination Address = 192.168.0.3t  6    TCP Source Port = 25,  TCP Destination Port = 491845    TCP Sequence Number      = 2910401360 = ^xAD793350i4    TCP Acknowledge Number   = 934082610 = ^x37ACF8323        Flags (URG=0,ACK=1,PSH=1,RST=0,SYN=0,FIN=0),nB                                            Window = 58220 = ^xE36C7    TCP Checksum = ^x2573,   Urgent Pointer = 0 = ^x0000a  H    4710043E   6ABA063E   00400B73   8C000045    0000    E...s.@.>..j>..GH    32F8AC37   503379AD   20C01900 | 0300A8C0    0010    ....... .y3P7..2H    2E312E35   20333535 | 00007325   6CE31850    0020    P..l%s..553 5.1.H    64407265   76726573   24707474   683C2038    0030    8 <http$server@dH    6D6F4420   2E2E2E3E   6C74642E   32306C74    0040    tl02.dtl>... DomH    64612072   65646E65   7320666F   206E6961    0050    ain of sender adH    65767265   73247074   74682073   73657264    0060    dress http$serveH    73656F64   206C7464   2E32306C   74644072    0070    r@dtl02.dtl doesH               0A0D7473   69786520   746F6E20    0080     not exist..      dQ  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------f  aD    TCPIPtrace full display XMT packet 121 at 17-MAR-2003 13:13:31.50  aD    IP Version = 4,  IHL = 5,  TOS = 00,   Total Length = 46 = ^x002E5    IP Identifier  = ^x8DC1,  Flags (0=0,DF=0,MF=0),   G          Fragment Offset = 0 = ^x0000,   Calculated Offset = 0 = ^x0000rF    IP TTL = 60 = ^x3C,  Protocol = 6 = ^x06,  Header Checksum = ^xE212'    IP Source Address      = 192.168.0.3A&    IP Destination Address = 62.4.16.71  6    TCP Source Port = 49184,  TCP Destination Port = 254    TCP Sequence Number      = 934082610 = ^x37ACF8325    TCP Acknowledge Number   = 2910401460 = ^xAD7933B4f3        Flags (URG=0,ACK=1,PSH=1,RST=0,SYN=0,FIN=0),-B                                            Window = 61440 = ^xF0007    TCP Checksum = ^x37D5,   Urgent Pointer = 0 = ^x0000o  H    0300A8C0   12E2063C   0000C18D   2E000045    0000    E.......<.......H    B43379AD   32F8AC37   190020C0 | 4710043E    0010    >..G. ..7..2.y3.H        0A0D   54495551 | 0000D537   00F01850    0020    P...7...QUIT..    iQ  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------   D    TCPIPtrace full display RCV packet 124 at 17-MAR-2003 13:13:31.71  tD    IP Version = 4,  IHL = 5,  TOS = 00,   Total Length = 89 = ^x00595    IP Identifier  = ^x7326,  Flags (0=0,DF=1,MF=0),  RG          Fragment Offset = 0 = ^x0000,   Calculated Offset = 0 = ^x0000RF    IP TTL = 62 = ^x3E,  Protocol = 6 = ^x06,  Header Checksum = ^xBA82&    IP Source Address      = 62.4.16.71'    IP Destination Address = 192.168.0.3   6    TCP Source Port = 25,  TCP Destination Port = 491845    TCP Sequence Number      = 2910401460 = ^xAD7933B4p4    TCP Acknowledge Number   = 934082616 = ^x37ACF8383        Flags (URG=0,ACK=1,PSH=1,RST=0,SYN=0,FIN=0),7B                                            Window = 58220 = ^xE36C7    TCP Checksum = ^x1259,   Urgent Pointer = 0 = ^x0000h  H    4710043E   82BA063E   00402673   59000045    0000    E..Ys&@.>...>..GH    38F8AC37   B43379AD   20C01900 | 0300A8C0    0010    ....... .y3.7..8H    2E302E32   20313232 | 00005912   6CE31850    0020    P..l.Y..221 2.0.H    6D697265   6E2E7261   74736E69   72622030    0030    0 brinstar.nerimH    6E6F6320   676E6973   6F6C6320   74656E2E    0040    .net closing conH                     0A   0D6E6F69   7463656E    0050    nection..         eQ  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------s  eD    TCPIPtrace full display XMT packet 125 at 17-MAR-2003 13:13:31.71  cD    IP Version = 4,  IHL = 5,  TOS = 00,   Total Length = 40 = ^x00285    IP Identifier  = ^x8DC3,  Flags (0=0,DF=0,MF=0),  'G          Fragment Offset = 0 = ^x0000,   Calculated Offset = 0 = ^x0000aF    IP TTL = 60 = ^x3C,  Protocol = 6 = ^x06,  Header Checksum = ^xE216'    IP Source Address      = 192.168.0.3 &    IP Destination Address = 62.4.16.71  6    TCP Source Port = 49184,  TCP Destination Port = 254    TCP Sequence Number      = 934082616 = ^x37ACF8385    TCP Acknowledge Number   = 2910401509 = ^xAD7933E523        Flags (URG=0,ACK=1,PSH=0,RST=0,SYN=0,FIN=1),pB                                            Window = 61391 = ^xEFCF7    TCP Checksum = ^xDF8F,   Urgent Pointer = 0 = ^x0000m  H    0300A8C0   16E2063C   0000C38D   28000045    0000    E..(....<.......H    E53379AD   38F8AC37   190020C0 | 4710043E    0010    >..G. ..7..8.y3.H                        | 00008FDF   CFEF1150    0020    P.......          eP  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------  iD    TCPIPtrace full display RCV packet 126 at 17-MAR-2003 13:13:31.71  pD    IP Version = 4,  IHL = 5,  TOS = 00,   Total Length = 40 = ^x00285    IP Identifier  = ^x7327,  Flags (0=0,DF=1,MF=0),  1G          Fragment Offset = 0 = ^x0000,   Calculated Offset = 0 = ^x0000uF    IP TTL = 62 = ^x3E,  Protocol = 6 = ^x06,  Header Checksum = ^xBAB2&    IP Source Address      = 62.4.16.71'    IP Destination Address = 192.168.0.3a  6    TCP Source Port = 25,  TCP Destination Port = 491845    TCP Sequence Number      = 2910401509 = ^xAD7933E5l4    TCP Acknowledge Number   = 934082616 = ^x37ACF8383        Flags (URG=0,ACK=1,PSH=0,RST=0,SYN=0,FIN=1),tB                                            Window = 58220 = ^xE36C7    TCP Checksum = ^xEBF2,   Urgent Pointer = 0 = ^x0000   H    4710043E   B2BA063E   00402773   28000045    0000    E..(s'@.>...>..GH    38F8AC37   E53379AD   20C01900 | 0300A8C0    0010    ....... .y3.7..8H        0000   00000000 | 0000F2EB   6CE31150    0020    P..l..........     Q  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------n  eD    TCPIPtrace full display XMT packet 127 at 17-MAR-2003 13:13:31.71  JD    IP Version = 4,  IHL = 5,  TOS = 00,   Total Length = 40 = ^x00285    IP Identifier  = ^x8DC4,  Flags (0=0,DF=0,MF=0),  iG          Fragment Offset = 0 = ^x0000,   Calculated Offset = 0 = ^x0000 F    IP TTL = 60 = ^x3C,  Protocol = 6 = ^x06,  Header Checksum = ^xE215'    IP Source Address      = 192.168.0.3e&    IP Destination Address = 62.4.16.71  6    TCP Source Port = 49184,  TCP Destination Port = 254    TCP Sequence Number      = 934082616 = ^x37ACF8385    TCP Acknowledge Number   = 2910401510 = ^xAD7933E6o3        Flags (URG=0,ACK=1,PSH=0,RST=0,SYN=0,FIN=1), B                                            Window = 61390 = ^xEFCE7    TCP Checksum = ^xDF8F,   Urgent Pointer = 0 = ^x0000s  H    0300A8C0   15E2063C   0000C48D   28000045    0000    E..(....<.......H    E63379AD   38F8AC37   190020C0 | 4710043E    0010    >..G. ..7..8.y3.H                        | 00008FDF   CEEF1150    0020    P.......           Q  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------e  rD    TCPIPtrace full display RCV packet 131 at 17-MAR-2003 13:13:31.83  -D    IP Version = 4,  IHL = 5,  TOS = 00,   Total Length = 40 = ^x00285    IP Identifier  = ^x733C,  Flags (0=0,DF=1,MF=0),  yG          Fragment Offset = 0 = ^x0000,   Calculated Offset = 0 = ^x0000.F    IP TTL = 62 = ^x3E,  Protocol = 6 = ^x06,  Header Checksum = ^xBA9D&    IP Source Address      = 62.4.16.71'    IP Destination Address = 192.168.0.3u  6    TCP Source Port = 25,  TCP Destination Port = 491845    TCP Sequence Number      = 2910401509 = ^xAD7933E5s4    TCP Acknowledge Number   = 934082617 = ^x37ACF8393        Flags (URG=0,ACK=1,PSH=0,RST=0,SYN=0,FIN=1), B                                            Window = 58220 = ^xE36C7    TCP Checksum = ^xEBF1,   Urgent Pointer = 0 = ^x0000e  H    4710043E   9DBA063E   00403C73   28000045    0000    E..(s<@.>...>..GH    39F8AC37   E53379AD   20C01900 | 0300A8C0    0010    ....... .y3.7..9H        0000   00000000 | 0000F1EB   6CE31150    0020    P..l..........     Q  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------t  oD    TCPIPtrace full display XMT packet 132 at 17-MAR-2003 13:13:31.83   D    IP Version = 4,  IHL = 5,  TOS = 00,   Total Length = 40 = ^x00285    IP Identifier  = ^x8DC7,  Flags (0=0,DF=0,MF=0),  iG          Fragment Offset = 0 = ^x0000,   Calculated Offset = 0 = ^x0000lF    IP TTL = 60 = ^x3C,  Protocol = 6 = ^x06,  Header Checksum = ^xE212'    IP Source Address      = 192.168.0.3s&    IP Destination Address = 62.4.16.71  6    TCP Source Port = 49184,  TCP Destination Port = 254    TCP Sequence Number      = 934082617 = ^x37ACF8395    TCP Acknowledge Number   = 2910401510 = ^xAD7933E6g3        Flags (URG=0,ACK=1,PSH=0,RST=0,SYN=0,FIN=0),tB                                            Window = 61390 = ^xEFCE7    TCP Checksum = ^xDF8F,   Urgent Pointer = 0 = ^x0000v  H    0300A8C0   12E2063C   0000C78D   28000045    0000    E..(....<.......H    E63379AD   39F8AC37   190020C0 | 4710043E    0010    >..G. ..7..9.y3.H                        | 00008FDF   CEEF1050    0020    P.......          i   O -------------------------------------------------------------------------------o  iD    TCPIPtrace full display RCV packet 133 at 17-MAR-2003 13:13:31.84  aD    IP Version = 4,  IHL = 5,  TOS = 00,   Total Length = 40 = ^x00285    IP Identifier  = ^x733F,  Flags (0=0,DF=1,MF=0),  tG          Fragment Offset = 0 = ^x0000,   Calculated Offset = 0 = ^x0000 F    IP TTL = 62 = ^x3E,  Protocol = 6 = ^x06,  Header Checksum = ^xBA9A&    IP Source Address      = 62.4.16.71'    IP Destination Address = 192.168.0.3   6    TCP Source Port = 25,  TCP Destination Port = 491845    TCP Sequence Number      = 2910401510 = ^xAD7933E6-4    TCP Acknowledge Number   = 934082617 = ^x37ACF8393        Flags (URG=0,ACK=1,PSH=0,RST=0,SYN=0,FIN=0), B                                            Window = 58220 = ^xE36C7    TCP Checksum = ^xEBF1,   Urgent Pointer = 0 = ^x0000e  H    4710043E   9ABA063E   00403F73   28000045    0000    E..(s?@.>...>..GH    39F8AC37   E63379AD   20C01900 | 0300A8C0    0010    ....... .y3.7..9H        0000   00000000 | 0000F1EB   6CE31050    0020    P..l..........    4 Looks like the reason is: "Domain of sender address D http$server@dtl02.dtl does not exist.." which is normal as it is an  internal domain.   So?c   (thanks for the Trace command)   D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 13:50:40 +0100l$ From: "Peter Flunger" <p-i-b@gmx.at>( Subject: Re: send mail from an intranet?0 Message-ID: <b54gb1$kko$1@newsreader1.netway.at>  6 "Didier Morandi" <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr> wrote  5 > Looks like the reason is: "Domain of sender address=E > http$server@dtl02.dtl does not exist.." which is normal as it is an$ > internal domain. >t > So?$ >R You are right,@ obviously the ouside SMTP gateway is not accepting the email for? delivery, because you are trying to send with an unknown sendern domain.R Try changing your SMTP setup7 $TCPIP SET SERVICE SMTP /subst=(hidden,name=<a domain>)c< where <a domain> is a valid domain name, preferably a domain% where you can receive your emails at.p@ Then your AXP will send email with sender http$server@<a domain>; ( including undeliverable messages if a message is bounced)a! and then restart the SMTP servicep* ( with sys$startup:tcpip$smtp_shutdown.com( and sys$startup:tcpip$smtp_startup.com )
 hth, Peter   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 16:36:30 +0100;$ From: "Peter Flunger" <p-i-b@gmx.at>( Subject: Re: send mail from an intranet?0 Message-ID: <b54q1v$p0v$1@newsreader1.netway.at>  $ "Peter Flunger" <p-i-b@gmx.at> wrote > Try changing your SMTP setup9 > $TCPIP SET SERVICE SMTP /subst=(hidden,name=<a domain>)    Sorry for the typo, " the command's syntax is of course:6 $TCPIP SET CONFIG SMTP /subst=(hidden,name=<a domain>) Petera   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 17:31:06 +010074 From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr>( Subject: Re: send mail from an intranet?& Message-ID: <3E75F84A.8040006@Free.fr>   Peter Flunger wrote:  % >"Peter Flunger" <p-i-b@gmx.at> wrote4 >  i >g >>Try changing your SMTP setup9 >>$TCPIP SET SERVICE SMTP /subst=(hidden,name=<a domain>)e >>     >> >r >Sorry for the typo,# >the command's syntax is of course:r7 >$TCPIP SET CONFIG SMTP /subst=(hidden,name=<a domain>)T >Peter >L >n >    >TE We progress. I do not have any error message now, but... the message u goes to a black hole !   D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 18:10:36 +0100 4 From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr>( Subject: Re: send mail from an intranet?& Message-ID: <3E76018C.3010405@Free.fr>   Peter Flunger wrote:  % >"Peter Flunger" <p-i-b@gmx.at> wroteo >  e >t >>Try changing your SMTP setup9 >>$TCPIP SET SERVICE SMTP /subst=(hidden,name=<a domain>)d >>     >> >u >Sorry for the typo,# >the command's syntax is of course:t7 >$TCPIP SET CONFIG SMTP /subst=(hidden,name=<a domain>)t >Peter >  >  >  e >eI ok, it works, but only if the destination is @nerim.net which is my ADSL uC ISP. Now I need to figure out why it does not accept to reroute my r% messages to other Internet addresses.n   Thank you all.   D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 12:13:25 -0400-0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>( Subject: Re: send mail from an intranet?/ Message-ID: <3E75F420.9E04E652@vl.videotron.ca>e   Didier Morandi wrote:.F > We progress. I do not have any error message now, but... the message > goes to a black hole !  3 Did you get my message about setting the logicals ?,  % $DEFINE/SYSTEM TCPIP$SMTP_LOG_LEVEL 2o! $DEFINE/SYSTEM TCPIP$SMTP_NOSEY 1 & $DEFINE/SYSTEM TCPIP$SMTP_SYMB_TRACE 1  % @SYS$STARTUP:TCPIP$SMTP_SHUTDOWN.COM  $ @SYS$STARTUP:TCPIP$SMTP_STARTUP.COM   * will ensure that the logicals take effect.  M You then look in the [sys0.tcpip$smtp] directory for the log file and it willIJ have the information that will help you find out exactly what is going on.   ------------------------------  ! Date: Mon, 17 Mar 03 12:31:25 GMTm From: jmfbahciv@aol.coml Subject: Re: unixS+ Message-ID: <b54huf$9gt$1@bob.news.rcn.net>t  ; In article <pan.2003.03.13.16.54.35.952717@nospam.invalid>,h.    "J. Clarke" <jclarke@nospam.invalid> wrote:4 >On Thu, 13 Mar 2003 12:48:45 +0000, jmfbahci wrote: <snip>  D >> I used some precious energy yesterday and walked into a Best Buy.B >> I read the packaging of Red Hat and something called SUSE (WETHD >> that stands for).  Not one mention of source.  Support was ticked@ >> off for the pro packages (prices were $250+- for Red Hat and B >> $100- for the SUSE).  Also note that there were exactly one boxA >> of each on the shelves and that was it for Unix.  Not a singleaC >> demo was running Unix.  Not a single system on display mentioned-> >> a Unix option.  Once again I tried to access some suggestedC >> web site, and it crashed.  I thought I'd taken my den mother hatc5 >> off; I forgot to check if it was welded to my ass.v >tD >SUSE has been around for a while--I don't recall what it stands forH >either.  It's not clear whether they include the source CD in the basicK >package, but source is downloadable by anonymous ftp from their site.  Youq= >can find a rundown on most of the various distributions fromeC ><http://www.linux.org/dist/index.html>.  There are a lot of them. tG ><http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/intro.shtml> has a walkthrough on G >building a working linux system from source, assuming you already havei' >another machine with a working system.n  C One of my nefarious goals is to explore how imbedded the assumptionhD 'web access' is. :-)  One of my starting assumptions is that I don'tB have another machine with a working system.  The fact that this is, a fact (no web access) is becoming annoying.   >yD >> In addition, I think I finally saw one of HT-TVs.  Not impressed.G >> I was more impressed by what you guys think you need in screen size.y > J >Personally I'm waiting for a 40" 1024x whatever the width is to get below >$1000.b   Only 40"?  :-)))   > E >> I also checked out the terminals...aw damn...now I forgot the tech I >> term.  The terminal style that I can lift with one hand, everything isrC >> flat, and <gasp> the screen doesn't seem to flicker.  I can alsomF >> see the screen at a 75 degree angle.  They seem to good to be true. >> What's wrong with them? >h  >You mean the thin LCD displays?  & Yup.   That was the magic incantation.  + > ..  For general use they are in fact verydF >nice.  The downside for graphic arts is that the color has a gradientI >depending on viewing angle--you can see this if you put up a solid-colorl	 >screen. b  G The displays did show a solid color...I think.  It was a putrid yellow.   F > .. The effect is not unpleasant to look at but it makes it difficultI >to match colors.  The downside for the gamers is that they have a bit ofFH >persistence so they can't keep up with high frame rates--the newer onesG >are much better in this regard.  One thing to watch for--get one whosesE >native resolution is the resolution you normally work with--that wayo@ >logical dots correspond exactly to physical dots and there's no* >interpolation at your default resolution.  ? Good lord.  I have no idea what that means nor how to determinea my native resolution.i  # > ..  If you use one off the nativerJ >resolution you'll see artifacts from the interpolation that don't show upB >with a CRT where the beam modulation is analog and can illuminate >arbitrary positions.   B Let me try to decypher.  I am assuming that, the fact that I couldA just plug this Multiscan 200SX Triniton (which I'm using now) and 9 eschewed installing any of the software that came with itr> implies that I won't have artifact problems.  I'm not sure I'd recognize them if I had them.r    4 > .. Another consideration is that they usually haveI >flourescent tubes to provide the backlighting--those may or may not last-< >as long as a CRT and the replacement cost can be ludicrous.  D There's the catch.  Flourescent tubes don't last long in this house.? I've put them in the same category as cassette tape players and  flashlight batteries.n  > How do I tell that they're illuminated by flourescent tubes?  = The specs provided for these terminals were a dearth of real n information. >t. >>  Also I got senior fart moment when I asked0 >> the child if I could hook one up to my 386.   > 2 >As long as you have a VGA-compatible video board.  7 Beats the shitouttame.  I always thought I was VGA, butn6 then one day AOL claimed I wasn't.  All other software8 worked as it did before AOL decided this.  The claim was9 that they "changed" their software to "read" my settings.D= This made no sense to me since I hadn't changed the softwireds> settings and I didn't smell any smoke from cosmic ray attacks.     > ..  Wouldn't want to bet mysJ >life on their being able to synch EGA, CGA, or MDA, all though they might
 >surprise me.h  ? What does synch mean?  The S (which I'm looking at) is a smoothuA curve that doesn't look like the pen was lifted every millimeter?e  > Or are you talking about something that will cause my terminal= screen to cry and smear its mascara (I can't think of anothera example using male terms)?   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.m   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 11:12:52 -0500)* From: "J. Clarke" <jclarke@nospam.invalid> Subject: Re: unix ; Message-ID: <pan.2003.03.17.16.12.51.597133@nospam.invalid>   3 On Mon, 17 Mar 2003 12:31:25 +0000, jmfbahci wrote:   = > In article <pan.2003.03.13.16.54.35.952717@nospam.invalid>,y0 >    "J. Clarke" <jclarke@nospam.invalid> wrote:5 >>On Thu, 13 Mar 2003 12:48:45 +0000, jmfbahci wrote:n > <snip> > G >>> I used some precious energy yesterday and walked into a Best Buy. IsF >>> read the packaging of Red Hat and something called SUSE (WETH thatH >>> stands for).  Not one mention of source.  Support was ticked off forF >>> the pro packages (prices were $250+- for Red Hat and $100- for theD >>> SUSE).  Also note that there were exactly one box of each on theJ >>> shelves and that was it for Unix.  Not a single demo was running Unix.J >>>  Not a single system on display mentioned a Unix option.  Once again IG >>> tried to access some suggested web site, and it crashed.  I thoughteJ >>> I'd taken my den mother hat off; I forgot to check if it was welded to >>> my ass.  >>E >>SUSE has been around for a while--I don't recall what it stands foreI >>either.  It's not clear whether they include the source CD in the basic G >>package, but source is downloadable by anonymous ftp from their site. B >>You can find a rundown on most of the various distributions fromC >><http://www.linux.org/dist/index.html>.  There are a lot of them. H >><http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/intro.shtml> has a walkthrough onH >>building a working linux system from source, assuming you already have( >>another machine with a working system. > J > One of my nefarious goals is to explore how imbedded the assumption 'webF > access' is. :-)  One of my starting assumptions is that I don't haveJ > another machine with a working system.  The fact that this is a fact (no# > web access) is becoming annoying.c  J Just as an aside, I took a look at my copy of RedHat (7.3 personal) and itH does include two CDs of source, however this is not mentioned on the boxG anywhere.  The Web site for 8.0 Personal says "with source code on CD".e  C Now, that said, Internet access of some sort has pretty much becomesI embedded in the software-distribution culture.  Just about everybody usesSH the Internet for primary distribution of patches and updates (most largeH vendors will sell you a subscription to receive them on CD but the priceC they charge for this service makes it clear that they are trying tolF discourage it), and some vendors sell commercial products via downloadH (for example you can get IBM PC-DOS 2000 off the IBM site for $50 if you: download it or for $65 if you want them to send you a CD).  I In the Linux culture specifically, you can get a distribution with source J from a commercial distributor such as RedHat or SuSE, but once you've doneJ that you'll find that any apps that aren't bundled will be a lot easier toJ get by download than by obtaining media--some products are available on CD@ directly from the developers (for example FSF will sell you a CDI containing the full GNU sources for $85), others are available from thirdc@ party distributers (for example openoffice.org lists a number ofG distributers who will sell you a CD containing the OpenOffice sources), I while still others are readily available only by download or bundled witheA a Linux distribution.  Patches and updates are going to be almosta= exclusively by download--RedHat for example doesn't list a CDgI subscription--I'm sure they can provide one but the price is not going to-
 be pretty.  I If you don't have and for whatever reason can't get Web (or at least ftp)PH access then your only real choice is to go with one of the off-the-shelfG commercial distributions or one of the "back of the book" distributionsMG which is often identical to one of the commercial ones but is usually ai few revisions older.  G >>> In addition, I think I finally saw one of HT-TVs.  Not impressed. IaF >>> was more impressed by what you guys think you need in screen size. >>E >>Personally I'm waiting for a 40" 1024x whatever the width is to get- >>below $1000. >  > Only 40"?  :-)))  J Good size for my wall.  If I want a _big_ screen I got a projector a whileJ back when I was doing a lot of training and got tired of dealing with crapE projection equipment that was generally available on-site.  No longerlH doing that.  One day the TV crapped out and there was something I wantedJ to see on so I rigged up a computer and the projector to show TV and neverF really went back.  Trouble with the projector is that it burns up $400! bulbs with deplorable regularity.   F >>> I also checked out the terminals...aw damn...now I forgot the techJ >>> term.  The terminal style that I can lift with one hand, everything isH >>> flat, and <gasp> the screen doesn't seem to flicker.  I can also seeJ >>> the screen at a 75 degree angle.  They seem to good to be true. What's >>> wrong with them? >>! >>You mean the thin LCD displays?O > ( > Yup.   That was the magic incantation. > , >> ..  For general use they are in fact veryG >>nice.  The downside for graphic arts is that the color has a gradient J >>depending on viewing angle--you can see this if you put up a solid-color	 >>screen.- > I > The displays did show a solid color...I think.  It was a putrid yellow.u  H Figures.  You can see the effect really clearly with the blue backgroundB on the Windows 2000 desktop.  Yellow might not show it as clearly.  G >> .. The effect is not unpleasant to look at but it makes it difficult0J >>to match colors.  The downside for the gamers is that they have a bit ofI >>persistence so they can't keep up with high frame rates--the newer ones H >>are much better in this regard.  One thing to watch for--get one whoseF >>native resolution is the resolution you normally work with--that wayA >>logical dots correspond exactly to physical dots and there's no + >>interpolation at your default resolution.  > D > Good lord.  I have no idea what that means nor how to determine my > native resolution.  J Sorry.  The docs for the monitor will tell you its native resolution.  ForG 15" LCDs it is typically 1024x768.  "Native resolution" applies only to J LCDs, DLPs, and other devices that have a separate device of some sort for each dot position.  F Think of an LCD display as a grid of transistors, with each transistorB being one dot on the screen.  To get a dot at the position where aD transistor is located you turn on one transistor.  To get a dot at aH position between two transistors you have to turn them both on.  If it'sJ at the corner of four of them you have to turn all four on.  So as long asB you're putting all your pixels on top of the transistors, one to aJ transistor, you're fine.  If you are putting your pixels in locations thatG are between transistors, then you end up with pixels being displayed on I the screen in different sizes (if a pixel is on a single transistor it is=G the size of that transistor, if it is between two then it is twice that5I size, if it is at the corner of four then it is four times the sizes) and J different shapes (two adjacent pixels can interact in such a way that onlyI 3 transistors are turned on at a given level so the pixel ends up kind oftD "chair-shaped").  The native resolution is the number of transistorsG across x the number of transistors down, for example a 1024x768 displayE' will have 768 rows of 1024 transistors.   $ >> ..  If you use one off the nativeH >>resolution you'll see artifacts from the interpolation that don't showF >>up with a CRT where the beam modulation is analog and can illuminate >>arbitrary positions.  :I > Let me try to decypher.  I am assuming that, the fact that I could just=G > plug this Multiscan 200SX Triniton (which I'm using now) and eschewed G > installing any of the software that came with it implies that I won'tTI > have artifact problems.  I'm not sure I'd recognize them if I had them.e  H You won't have the problem with a CRT as long as it has a reasonable dotI pitch for the resolution you're using.  With an LCD running at other than H its native resolution you'll see the artifacts pretty easily--charactersD will be running together and so on and the whole display will have a7 "blockiness" disproportionate to the resolution change.x  H This is one of those things that is a lot easier to show someone than to	 describe.E  5 >> .. Another consideration is that they usually haveFJ >>flourescent tubes to provide the backlighting--those may or may not last= >>as long as a CRT and the replacement cost can be ludicrous.n > F > There's the catch.  Flourescent tubes don't last long in this house.A > I've put them in the same category as cassette tape players andi > flashlight batteries.E > H > How do I tell that they're illuminated by flourescent tubes? The specsA > provided for these terminals were a dearth of real information.0  = That's a good question.  Assume that they are unless they say G otherwise--the ones that are't the manufacturer makes a big deal about.-  / >>>  Also I got senior fart moment when I asked-/ >>> the child if I could hook one up to my 386.d >>3 >>As long as you have a VGA-compatible video board.I > J > Beats the shitouttame.  I always thought I was VGA, but then one day AOLC > claimed I wasn't.  All other software worked as it did before AOL0D > decided this.  The claim was that they "changed" their software toI > "read" my settings. This made no sense to me since I hadn't changed the J > softwired settings and I didn't smell any smoke from cosmic ray attacks.  H Check your video connector--if it has 15 pins in 3 rows then it's almostE certainly VGA.  If it has 8 pins in 2 rows then it's one of the older I technologies.  There is a catch though.  Some of the early VGA-compatible I (as opposed to IBM-brand) boards did not have an exact hardware emulationeH of the VGA and instead were compatible at the driver or BIOS level.  TheJ ones that had hardware-level emulation were called "register compatible". I Yours might be one of the models that was not register-compatible.  OTOH,0I I've had apps tell me that I didn't have a VGA when I was running them on0A a genuine IBM PS/2, which had the genuine official IBM VGA in it.-  - >> ..  Wouldn't want to bet myE >>life on their being able to synch EGA, CGA, or MDA, all though they3 >>might surprise me. > G > What does synch mean?  The S (which I'm looking at) is a smooth curver= > that doesn't look like the pen was lifted every millimeter?t > J > Or are you talking about something that will cause my terminal screen toH > cry and smear its mascara (I can't think of another example using male	 > terms)?I  J That's what I'm talking about.  At one time monitors and video controllersJ were made to work together--a monitor for a Sun for example would probablyJ either not work at all or produce much spitzensparken if attached to, say,G an Apollo.  In the IBM-compatible PCs the original PC had two differentW@ video boards available, and two different monitors, one high-res> monochrome (by the standards of the day--its pretty abysmal byB contemporary standards) with nice sharp text and one not very highF resolution color display that produced fuzzy text but could to limitedD graphics.  The monochrome board was officially called the "Black andH White" adapter and is generally known as the "MDA".  The color board wasJ called the "Color Graphics Adapter" and is generally known as CGA.  If youJ plugged the color monitor into an MDA it wasn't vere happy and vice versa.G  Neither produced spitzensparken but doing either for more than a short0H time would kill either the monitor or the board.  This was an annoyance,G but wasn't a real problem.  Later other vendors came out with their own-B standards.  Then IBM came out with the "EGA" or "Enhanced GraphicsG Adapter", which could work with either of the older displays at reduced I performance or could work with its own dedicated display that didn't work F with the older boards.  And of course none of these would work with anF Apple or any other machine except the IBMs.  The monitor manufacturersB were losing their hair over this because they had to make numerousH different models for different video standards, and the distributers hadH to stock a bunch of different models and in generally it was just a pain in the keester.   J Finally, the engineers at NEC had a bright idea.  The would make a monitorJ with video circuits that could handle a pretty good cross-section of theseJ different standards, and automagically detect what it was connected to, soE it was in effect a "one size fits all" monitor.  They called this the.B "multisynch".  After a while other vendors started doing the same.B Eventually video board manufacturers started producing boards withH non-standard high resolution modes and the monitor manufacturers managedH to build enough tolerance and sufficiently sophisticated signal-analysisH that their monitors could lock on to signals from new boards that didn'tJ exist when the monitor was designed.  The process of analyzing and lockingE onto the signal is called "autosynchronization", or "sync" for short.0  H My speculation was that the newer LCD monitors might not be able to deal> with video standards that haven't been used in new machines inJ ten years or more.  Since I know you're using an older machine it occurred* to me that that might have been a concern.     > /BAH > ) > Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.    -- S --John- Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot netS# (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)A   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 10:32:19 +0300s! From: "pbc" <pbc@informchaos.com>= Subject: Re: up2000 + up10000 Message-ID: <b53tma$2jdr$1@alpha2.radio-msu.net>  G UP2000 and UP2000+ work OK. On UP2000+ you have to disable onboard SCSIE adapter as far as I remember.   % UP1000 does not work with Tru64/OVMS.D   Peter0    L "peter.watkinson1@ ntlworld.com (Peter Watkinson)" <nospam> /G   : news:3e74b1f4.21370500@news.cable.ntlworld.com...C >8 >  > Hi there,t >eF > Does Open VMS or Tru64 unix run on the UP2000 or UP1000 motherboards$ > or were they NT/Linux boards only? >6G > They appear on ebay and they are somewhat cheaper than the equivalent7& > Compaq systems i.e DS20, DS20e DS10. > G > I believe Open VMS runs on the 264DP motherboard but these are rarer.  > ? > There is another board a UP2000+ not too sure about that one.  >d > Thanks for any info. >-	 > cheers,- >- >- >- > Peter Watkinson-' > peter.watkinson1<nospam>@ntlworld.coml > remove <nospam> to reply :-)   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Mar 2003 08:24:59 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)0$ Subject: Re: VAX Shared SCSI anyone?3 Message-ID: <tqltH9dSZynI@eisner.encompasserve.org>   b In article <3E734CBA.F73543F4@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes:N > Any chance I would plug in my all mighty microvax II's SCSI onto a macintosh > SCSI and share drives ?  >   >    Are you going to port ODS-2 to Mac OS, or Mac's HFS to VMS?   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Mar 2003 07:15:43 -0600B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)J Subject: [OT] Public NT BSOD displays, was: Re: Another missed opportunity3 Message-ID: <vuE9yY9jpWvA@eisner.encompasserve.org>0  { In article <dd30c1d34b.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>, Alan Adams <alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk> writes:D > M > Flying out of Heathrow the other day I noticed about half of the departures-I > screens were off or displaying rubbish. Shortly afterwards the Window95yH > startup was being displayed. I commented at the time that I hoped theyA > weren't using it for anything important. Now it seems they are.3 >   F The other month, at York railway station, one of the timetable boards,E instead of displaying the timetable, was displaying an oddly familiar, shade of blue...  I Upon closer inspection, I noted that Railtrack (or whichever organisation E is responsible for the boards) use GenuineIntel for their NT systems.    Simon.   -- uB Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       L VMS advocate: One who makes a Mac advocate look like a beginner at advocacy.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.150 ************************