1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 21 Mar 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 157       Contents:$ Re: 9gig 7200rpm drives in PWS500au?/ An opportunity for HP? (wes: Micromedex on VMS) 3 Re: An opportunity for HP? (wes: Micromedex on VMS)  Re: Another missed opportunity# Re: can one use this disk with VMS?  Re: Carly's feedback link  Re: Carly's feedback link  Re: Carly's feedback link  Re: CI cluster issues  Re: CI cluster issues  Re: CI cluster issues * Re: Cluster, half in the DMZ, half outside* Re: Cluster, half in the DMZ, half outside Re: COPY/FTP return status Re: COPY/FTP return status Re: Demagnetize Disk Drives  Re: Demagnetize Disk Drives  Re: Demagnetize Disk Drives  RE: Demagnetize Disk Drives  Re: Demagnetize Disk Drives  RE: Demagnetize Disk Drives  Re: Demagnetize Disk Drives  Re: Demagnetize Disk Drives  Re: Demagnetize Disk Drives = Re: DSPP Business Newsletter for North America, March edition = Re: DSPP Business Newsletter for North America, March edition = Re: DSPP Business Newsletter for North America, March edition = Re: DSPP Business Newsletter for North America, March edition = Re: DSPP Business Newsletter for North America, March edition = Re: DSPP Business Newsletter for North America, March edition = Re: DSPP Business Newsletter for North America, March edition = Re: EFI Specifications (was: I Have Seen The IA64 Future !!!) - Fortel chapter 11 report on Fortel's website. 1 Re: Fortel chapter 11 report on Fortel's website. 1 Re: Fortel chapter 11 report on Fortel's website. 7 Re: How do you Detect Ethernet failure from inside code 7 Re: How do you Detect Ethernet failure from inside code 7 Re: How do you Detect Ethernet failure from inside code 7 Re: How do you Detect Ethernet failure from inside code = Re: How to restrict the login access number in Alpha Open VMS = Re: How to restrict the login access number in Alpha Open VMS = Re: How to restrict the login access number in Alpha Open VMS # Re: I Have Seen The IA64 Future !!! 2 In times like this, isn't it nice to be on VMS ...6 Re: In times like this, isn't it nice to be on VMS ...A Re: Is http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/ down?  ATTN: Baby Peanut  java 1.4.0-1 on V7.3 problem) LOGINOUT.EXE locked by other user problem - Re: LOGINOUT.EXE locked by other user problem - Re: LOGINOUT.EXE locked by other user problem - Re: LOGINOUT.EXE locked by other user problem # Micro$oft patch freezes systems ...  Re: Micromedex on VMS  Re: Micromedex on VMS  Re: Micromedex on VMS  RE: Micromedex on VMS * Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrants, Re: Next OpenVMS Advanced Technical Bootcamp Re: Nice update! Re: Nice update! Re: Nice update!6 OpenVMS as a growth platform; and low-cost development  Re: OpenVMS SMP License Question  Re: OpenVMS SMP License Question  Re: OpenVMS SMP License Question Re: Rich Marcello  RE: Rich Marcello " Sun unix/linux new nasty bug cert!" Re: System crash, should I worry ?" Re: System crash, should I worry ? Re: This newsgroup Re: unix  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 20:06:20 -0800 7 From: David Spencer <spencer@spaamfree.pageweavers.com> - Subject: Re: 9gig 7200rpm drives in PWS500au? B Message-ID: <200320032006200230%spencer@spaamfree.pageweavers.com>  \ In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIAEDMGNAA.tom@kednos.com>, Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com> wrote:  L > have 3 IBM 10k dives in a PWS500, which probably run hotter and works fine >  > >-----Original Message----- 6 > >From: Bill McLaughlin [mailto:mcbill20@hotmail.com]' > >Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 4:07 PM  > >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com, > >Subject: 9gig 7200rpm drives in PWS500au? > >  > > I > >I have a PWS500au with three 7200rom 9 gig drives (Seagate ST39175LW). G > >The cover has been off so far as I just got the box a week or so ago H > >and I had to install a second SCSI card, etc. Now that it all works IH > >was going to put the cover on and put it in the rack. The side of theF > >case where the drives are feels pretty warm and I got to thinking--E > >are these drives supported internally in this box? Anyone else out 5 > >there with a PWS using these drives? Any problems?  > >  > >Thanks in advance.  > >  > >Bill McLaughlin  N I have a similar configuration that runs without problems. Yes, the drives get hot but that's not unusual.      -- Dave Spencer    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 14:26:51 -0500 ; From: "Brian Tillman" <Brian.Tillman@notnoone.notnohow.com> 8 Subject: An opportunity for HP? (wes: Micromedex on VMS)$ Message-ID: <3e7a15f1$1@news.si.com>  F >For those using Micromedex on VMS,  today I received information that@ >this product will soon be no longer available on Alpha OpenVMS.  K Sue, can you get anyone to do something about this?  Right before our eyes, K infrastructure for VMS is crumbling, and in one of the area VMS has been so  strong in: health care.  --  I Brian Tillman         Internet: Brian.Tillman at smiths-aerospace dot com 5 Smiths Aerospace  Addresses modified to prevent SPAM. @ 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS Replace "at" with "@", "dot" with "." Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991 8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 23:23:57 GMT + From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (leslie) < Subject: Re: An opportunity for HP? (wes: Micromedex on VMS): Message-ID: <h4sea.47086$fa.2507888@twister.austin.rr.com>  : Brian Tillman (Brian.Tillman@notnoone.notnohow.com) wrote:H : >For those using Micromedex on VMS,  today I received information thatB : >this product will soon be no longer available on Alpha OpenVMS. : H : Sue, can you get anyone to do something about this?  Right before our H : eyes, infrastructure for VMS is crumbling, and in one of the area VMS % : has been so strong in: health care.  :   * A friend sent me this statement about IDX:  ,   "IDX and HP will be using VMS till 2012 !"  D A check of the IDX job openings in Burlington, VT, that mention VMS,4 also mention AIX experience, and Visual Basic; e.g.:  N  http://careers.peopleclick.com/jobposts/Client40_IDX/BU1/External/187-626.htm,  Senior Software Engineer - Customer Support  6  "...Position requires a strong programming backgroundE   with 4+ years of programming experience. The ideal candidate should ?   have an excellent working knowledge of Visual Basic and Mumps E   programming languages. Background should also include experience on G   VMS or AIX Server platforms. Previous customer support experience and >   a BS in Computer Science or related background is required."    2 --Jerry Leslie   (my opinions are strictly my own)9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for email    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 23:29:46 +0100 ( From: "Philip Lewis" <philip@nospam.com>' Subject: Re: Another missed opportunity - Message-ID: <b5dfn8$1e4p$1@news.cybercity.dk>    Well,   L The self checkin machines (where you tag your own baggage) at Frankfurt wereK fun when they were first installed.  I watched them rebooting merrily  as a - techie was working.  The OS you ask ?  OS-2 !      Alan Adams wrote: / > In message <3E734E9C.63C2658@vl.videotron.ca> = >           JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote:  >  >> Paul Sture wrote:B >>  None of us will. It Swissair went into liquidation and stopped	 >> flying  >>> a year ago.  >> >>@ >> Not quite 100% correct when one is pedantic. Swissair set itsG >> Crossair subsidiary "free", then Swissair went out of business, then F >> Crossair bought certain assets from Swissair and started to operate >> on former Swissair routes.  >>? >> So Swiss has its roots in Crossair which was a subsidiary of F >> Swissair. not sure if they will survive Bush Jr's invasion of Iraq. >>B >> Coming back to the air traffic control system, was this upgradeG >> (well I wouldn't consider a move to NT an "upgrade") prompted by the F >> mid-air collision last year ? If the media started to point fingers? >> are the ATC system using antiquated equipment, I can see the F >> pressure to upgrade, and in such a context, they woudl be forced to& >> buy something which "LOOKS" modern. >>G >> At least they should have gone to Sun. Somehow, NT isn't up to snuff E >> when it comes to real time, life critical systems. Announcinmg you @ >> will trust a toy operating system to control air traffic withC >> thousands of lives depending on some wintel box is pretty scary.  > B > Flying out of Heathrow the other day I noticed about half of theG > departures screens were off or displaying rubbish. Shortly afterwards C > the Window95 startup was being displayed. I commented at the time C > that I hoped they weren't using it for anything important. Now it  > seems they are.  >  > Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 20:10:21 -0800 7 From: David Spencer <spencer@spaamfree.pageweavers.com> , Subject: Re: can one use this disk with VMS?B Message-ID: <200320032010214686%spencer@spaamfree.pageweavers.com>  v In article <01KTMNXATAD49H1MPS@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote:  I > A while back, I asked a similar question about some SEAGATE drives.  I  G > have been happily using them as a two-volume shadow set for almost a   > year now.  > F > The disk in question today is IBM 9.1 GB DNES with 50-pin connector. > F > In the case of the SEAGATE drives, several folks said they had been H > using them with VMS, so I felt OK.  Has anyone actually used this IBM  > disk?  > K > (This IBM disk is not as attractive to me since it is only 1, and I like  K > shadow sets, but if it is a common model perhaps I could pick up another   > one somewhere.)   M I have used these drives in AS200, AS255 and 500au systems without problems.  F They are not as fast as UltraSCSI drives but I've had lots of success.     -- Dave Spencer, PageWeavers   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 20:46:12 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> " Subject: Re: Carly's feedback link' Message-ID: <3E7A7CF3.6FCD9FA6@fsi.net>    Phillip Helbig wrote:  > H > > Funny how when anyone else has them, they're WMD's, yet when America/ > > has them they are simply 'nuclear devices'.  > I > Close, but no cigar.  I believe "nuculer" is the correct pronunciation.    What's a nuculus?   9 (Hint: It's nucleus; hence, nuclear as in "NEW-Clee-er".)    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 20:47:27 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> " Subject: Re: Carly's feedback link' Message-ID: <3E7A7D3F.F8C0C5B8@fsi.net>    Phillip Helbig wrote:  > O > > >> > > Funny how when anyone else has them, they're WMD's, yet when America 6 > > >> > > has them they are simply 'nuclear devices'. > > >> >P > > >> > Close, but no cigar.  I believe "nuculer" is the correct pronunciation. > > >>H > > >> Only among the illiterate.  I believe Colin Powell gets it right. > > > M > > > Well, I heard Dubya's speech, and Dubya said "nuculer", and since Dubya N > > > will declare war on you if he doesn't like what you say, I conclude thatN > > > "nuculer" is how it should be pronounced, even if it isn't correct.  :-| > >  > > What is your problem ? > > = > > Why do you assume he knows what continent Germany is on ?  > C > I do remember a Reagan speech in which he listed the Eastern Bloc J > countries---and included Yugoslavia and Austria!  But hey, if you're notH > sure which continent something is on, bomb them all!  After all, sinceJ > Dubya doesn't know where Saddam Hussein is, he probably plans to destroy= > a lot of stuff in the hope that he might hit him by chance.   % Whaddaya expect from a bloc head? ;-)    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 23:27:33 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>" Subject: Re: Carly's feedback link/ Message-ID: <3E7A86A4.F3A8706E@vl.videotron.ca>    "David J. Dachtera" wrote: >> What's a nuculus? > ; > (Hint: It's nucleus; hence, nuclear as in "NEW-Clee-er".)   I I though that "nukular" was just a trademark for atomic reaction that was E registered at the USA patents office, and that "Nuclear" devices used N everywhere else in the world were cheap knock off of the original invention of* the atom by Al Gore's great grand father ?  H I have no expectation that Bush Jr would know how to pronoucne the word.N However, I am still surprised that Jimmy Carter couldn't pronounce it properlyG since he was a nuclear physicist. (or is a nukular physicist something  K totally unrelated, perhaps having to do with the reactions that happen when * you cruch peanuts to make peanut butter ?)  M (Note: i other have have great respect for what Jimmy Carter has accomplished  since he has left office).   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Mar 2003 11:22:22 -0800# From: wmarsh@etrade.com (Wil Marsh)  Subject: Re: CI cluster issues= Message-ID: <36f52bd6.0303201122.4b8be99b@posting.google.com>   W Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in message news:<3E799BEF.E06FFA@127.0.0.1>...  > "Chris C." wrote:  > > B > > We have a 2 node (ES40's) CI Cluster running VMS 7.1-2, with 2I > > redundantly configured HSJ80's which house the quorum disk as well as  > > the system and data disks.G > > Software prevents us upgrading VMS for several months and following H > > this we hope to be going down the Fibre Channel for storage / Memory# > > channel for interconnect route. G > > In the mean time we experience performance problems associated with G > > the CI Bus particularly heavy locking traffic, lots of processes in  > > RWSCS and RWCLU.I > > What I would like to do short term is make use of spare network ports < > > and install a private 100Mbps LAN between the 2 systems.: > > How can I get SCS traffic off the CI and onto the LAN?G > > Will this affect my ability to boot one node using the quorum disk? ( > > Any other ideas gratefully received. > J > You know, I've just checked the documentation, and it doesn't explicitlyJ > state the priority of which cluster interconnect is chosen over another.D > It is on a DSN/WIS article though, "How To Determine The PReferred& > Channel For Cluster Communications". > G > Priority order is galaxy shared memory, memory channel, the CI, DSSI, H > FDDI, and finally the NI (ethernet). Note that FC isn't mentioned, butD > it's my understanding the driver class if and when available is NII > (confirmation please) based on the fact the port driver work is/will be 9 > being built on all the good work put into the PEDRIVER.  > E > So, based on this, installing a private 100Mb LAN won't necessarily  > achieve what you want. > F > However, from what you've described of the situation, why didn't youJ > select the HSZ80 and form a SCSI cluster (SCSI is a special interconnectF > and no cluster traffic passes over it) and have the SCS traffic only$ > (not storage traffic) over the CI? > D > We also implemented a memory channel, so when we see heavy lockingG > traffic problems, they are exhibited against the VAXes in the cluster I > due to having Alpha served storage and (currently) limited to the CI as  > the fastest interconnect.  > B > Interestingly, RWSCS could be caused by excessive lock directoryH > lookups, look at MON DLOCK and see what the incoming and outgoing "DirG > Function Rate" is. This may be (application dependent) a good time to < > educate your application people of the use of the NL lock. > I > Having said all that, all of the above intended hardware configurations I > seems to be the way you are heading, with the addition of FibreChannel, G > so understanding the priority for SCS over FC would be real useful at C > this time for future reference. However you have to treat FC as a 5 > storage only interconnect for now, similar to SCSI.  > J > As to being able to tackle your immediate problems, I'm not sure you canH > (I've never tried or looked) to stop SCS over a CI (star coupler job),F > and I don't know if the PEDRIVER could elevate itself as a preferredB > channel over a congested CI, due to the priority I listed above. > H > I would however, try to understand the source of the excessive lockingB > traffic, if that is what it is, and perhaps try to address that.  F Excessive locking can be caused by badly fragmented ISAM files. We nowE convert some of them on a bi-weekly basis to reduce the lock traffic.   D You might also consider using GigE for the node to node interconnect< rather than 100 Nic. We have used this for a private clusterD interconnect with ES40's with good success. The issue with CI is theC bandwidth of the Cipca for messages, which maxes out at 15k message  per second.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 20:28:46 +0100 / From: "Marc Van Dyck" <marc.vandyck@brutele.be>  Subject: Re: CI cluster issues* Message-ID: <b5d4p4$j2f$1@news.brutele.be>  5 "Chris C." <chrisc44444@hotmail.com> wrote in message 7 news:a8d0c1df.0303200140.27121324@posting.google.com... @ > We have a 2 node (ES40's) CI Cluster running VMS 7.1-2, with 2G > redundantly configured HSJ80's which house the quorum disk as well as  > the system and data disks.E > Software prevents us upgrading VMS for several months and following F > this we hope to be going down the Fibre Channel for storage / Memory! > channel for interconnect route. E > In the mean time we experience performance problems associated with E > the CI Bus particularly heavy locking traffic, lots of processes in  > RWSCS and RWCLU.G > What I would like to do short term is make use of spare network ports : > and install a private 100Mbps LAN between the 2 systems.8 > How can I get SCS traffic off the CI and onto the LAN?E > Will this affect my ability to boot one node using the quorum disk? & > Any other ideas gratefully received. > 
 > Many Thanks    Chris,  ; based on my own experience, memory channel is a bad choice:    - it's extremely expensive - it's a dead technology - it's very fragile   : We had memory channel clusters once, had a lot of problems< with them, and replaced that with dedicated, point to point,? gigabit ethernet connections (in fact, a direct crossover cable 6 between the gigabit ethernet adapters in each system).= Almost as fast, much cheaper, more robust. There is a program < somewhere in SYS$something that allows you to tell VMS whichC network interface you want/don't want to use for SCS traffic. Don't D remember the name, I'm at home, but your friendly FS engineer shouldA know. Our new clusters (GS 160s, FC storage) use two (redundancy) E GBE links for SCS interconnect, and that works just fine. SCS traffic G gets balanced between the two links, and fails over if one link breaks. > You can easily pay yourself the two GBE links for the money of: the memory channel hardware and still save a lot of bucks.   Marc.    ------------------------------    Date: 20 Mar 2003 15:50:46 -08001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)  Subject: Re: CI cluster issues= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0303201550.5836a094@posting.google.com>   h wmarsh@etrade.com (Wil Marsh) wrote in message news:<36f52bd6.0303201122.4b8be99b@posting.google.com>...F > You might also consider using GigE for the node to node interconnect > rather than 100 Nic.  F If you go this route, and your primary concern is locking performance,F consider waiting for the new DEGXA rather than using the older DEGPA. B Verell Boaen's tests show that even a 100-megabit adapter like theE DE500 has both lower latency and higher throughput than the DEGPA for ' small packets like lock requests -- see D http://vmsone.com/dfwdays/Presentations/CI_MEAS_V73_2001_03.PPT, or,F better yet, the later version from HP-ETS on the Encompass.org websiteF if you attended HP-ETS, as that contains data on the DEGXA in addition
 to the DEGPA.   F When using Ethernet (or a LAN of any flavor, for that matter) as a VMSF cluster interconnect, one must also be careful what you connect it to.>  A cross-over cable is low-latency, trouble-free, doesn't dropB packets, and needs no firmware upgrades or reboots.  If you need aE switch, I recommend dnpg.com's hardware.  I've seen a lot of problems D lately when people try to use low-end Cisco Catalyst boxes (like theD 4000 series) as cluster interconnect hardware, particularly with theB more-aggressive transmit algorithms in PEDRIVER in 7.3 and above. C I've actually seen average latencies through such a switch that are > greater than the latencies I used to see (4-5 milliseconds) in= E*Trade's 252-mile circuit path length long-distance cluster.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 13:27:44 -0800 + From: Dean Woodward <deanw@agora.rdrop.com> 3 Subject: Re: Cluster, half in the DMZ, half outside 6 Message-ID: <b5dbrh$266n7q$1@ID-184503.news.dfncis.de>   JF Mezei wrote:  > Jim Brankin wrote: > C >> Has anyone built a cluster with some of the nodes in the DMZ and  >> some outside of it? > C > What exactly is the DMZ ? Is that an official networking term, or F > just some terminology used for one consumer grade home router to tehG > default host to receice call requests to ports that are not specified  > in the router's SUA table ?   F DeMilitarized Zone- just like in Korea. It's a network segment that's B physically isolated from both the outside world and your internal C network, subject to access from either direction by a firewall and  4 rules. This is not lightweight consumer-grade stuff.  H Webservers, mail servers, anything that you would want to be accessible F from the world at large should go here, where it's isolated from your F internal systems in case the box gets cracked, and only protocols you 9 want to and from your servers get in/out, as appropriate.    ------------------------------    Date: 21 Mar 2003 05:06:08 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>3 Subject: Re: Cluster, half in the DMZ, half outside - Message-ID: <87fzphiw8v.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   + jbrankin@ntlworld.com (Jim Brankin) writes:   B > Has anyone built a cluster with some of the nodes in the DMZ and > some outside of it?    F > The nodes in the DMZ would be web servers, obviously, and the others9 > back end database engines. All the machines would run a @ > cluster-aware database product and there would be at least one > shared disk.   F > Since the cluster interconnect would connect machines in the DMZ andF > the internal network without going through the inner firewall routerC > there would be problems convincing the security people it was OK. F > However, if you ensure that the cluster interconnect is not carryingA > IP or DECnet traffic then I do not see that there is a security 
 > problem.   E > Has anyone done this? Does anyone see problems with it? What do you  > think?  B Yep, that could work very well with WASD. Put mininal outside, andB BRIDGE in with SCS, MOP, and DECnet only. No IP trafic through theF bridge! WASD can use DECnet to run the scripts, and they can be insideE the firewall with the rest of the data and most of the cluster. Hell, % it could be a diskless satelite even.   D The SCS, and DECnet trafic can't get over you IP link to the outsideE world, and the nastys can't get in except via IP. So it is a dead end D for ALL IP trafic. But even if the router to planet death is screwedA up or the filter rules lost, they still can't get past the DMZ as D there is no protocol that can get all the way through. Old DEC stuffD that WON'T do IP at all is just the ticket for this :) Hard for them- to crack your bridge if it won't do telnet...   A BTW, it also is a way to get you web server able to handle a huge 5 load, and a lot of it is exported to other machines!       --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Mar 2003 15:17:14 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) # Subject: Re: COPY/FTP return status 3 Message-ID: <x6rFhdkkBvu3@eisner.encompasserve.org>   M In article <03032011381156@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>, brandon@dalsemi.com writes:   O > I am using the COPY/FTP command and found this little quirk.  When attempting I > to copy a LOCKED file I get the same $status code as I do when I copy a L > non-LOCKED file.  The $status code returns a success but does not copy the > file.   > It is possible this depends on what brand of IP stack you use.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 16:31:03 -0600  From: brandon@dalsemi.com # Subject: Re: COPY/FTP return status 1 Message-ID: <03032016310388@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>   O > In article <03032011381156@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>, brandon@dalsemi.com writes:  > Q > > I am using the COPY/FTP command and found this little quirk.  When attempting K > > to copy a LOCKED file I get the same $status code as I do when I copy a N > > non-LOCKED file.  The $status code returns a success but does not copy the	 > > file.  > @ > It is possible this depends on what brand of IP stack you use. >     You think I would know better...  ? DIGITAL TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.0A - ECO 3 < on a Compaq AlphaServer GS160 6/731 running OpenVMS V7.2-1H1         John Brandon VMS Systems Administrator  Dallas Semiconductor john.brandon@dalsemi.com 972.371.4172 wk  972.371.4003 fx    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 11:13:55 -0800 " From: GreyCloud <cumulus@mist.com>$ Subject: Re: Demagnetize Disk Drives( Message-ID: <3E7A12F3.8C4CD278@mist.com>   "Doc.Cypher" wrote:  > 1 > On Thu, 20 Mar 2003, brandon@dalsemi.com wrote: R > >Our management asked us a simple question, what do we do with disk drives after > >they fail or are upgraded?  > > . > >My knee jerk answer - "trash bin" or e-bay. > > O > >The reason they were asking... they were concerned that disk drives that are R > >gotten rid (for one reason or another) had sensitive data on them that could be > >access by the new owners. >  > >My thought out answer ... > > M > >* (disk upgrade) In the event that we upgrade a disk drive we wipe out the N > >data on the disk by performing an INIT/ERASE.  We typically re-use the diskD > >drive in some other capacity, however at times we have sold them. > I > I'd think that for most purposes this would be fine. I once saw a Tru64 L > admin asking how to erase one of his disks get the answer "install VMS and > use INIT/ERASE". > Q > >* (disk failure) In the event that we replace a disk drive we return the drive N > >to HP and have it replaced with a new one.  Since the disk drive has failedL > >there is no way to access the drive and perform an INIT/ERASE.  Hence the	 > >demag.  > H > I don't think that's going to work. There's a lot of metal between the2 > outside world and the platters inside the drive. > < > I'd say your management have to make a choice based on how2 > valuable/sensitive any data on the drive may be. > K > The sure-fire solution is to physically destroy the disk. A Google search L > through alt.privacy would probably allow you to write a book detailing 1019 > ways to mangle a hard disk - including using Semtex. :)  > K > If the disk is under warranty and you want a new one, you could ask HP to L > certify that it is either destroyed or securely erased. I'm quite sure you/ > wouldn't be the first people to ask for that.  >   ; The DOD has always had the techs take apart the hard drives ; and insert the platters into a special degaussing box.  The 1 process ends up in a big WHUMP during degaussing.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 20:12:57 +0100 / From: "Marc Van Dyck" <marc.vandyck@brutele.be> $ Subject: Re: Demagnetize Disk Drives* Message-ID: <b5d3rf$h8l$1@news.brutele.be>  A "Doc.Cypher" <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in message / news:20030320174853.2895.qmail@gacracker.org...    [snip]   > K > If the disk is under warranty and you want a new one, you could ask HP to L > certify that it is either destroyed or securely erased. I'm quite sure you/ > wouldn't be the first people to ask for that.  >  >  > Doc. > --< > Time and money, the psychotropics of the business world...
 > ~ VAXman https://vmsbox.cjb.net  9 Or you can pay H.P. a fee for not returning broken disks. ; They call that the "defective materials retention" service. 5 That's what we are doing. When a disk is broken, H.P. 8 replaces it but we keep the broken one, and drill a hole0 through it, before sending them to the dumpster.  < I explained that with data stored in raid sets, the contents: of one single disk is useless, but our security department8 insisted; with such a service they know exactly how much# their dreams cost to the company...    Marc.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 14:24:09 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>$ Subject: Re: Demagnetize Disk Drives/ Message-ID: <3E7A073C.A136907C@vl.videotron.ca>   O > >The reason they were asking... they were concerned that disk drives that are R > >gotten rid (for one reason or another) had sensitive data on them that could be > >access by the new owners.  C If the drive is still functional, you can use VMS utilities such as N INIT/ERASE, DELETE/ERASE, ANA/MEDIA to ensure that the old data is truly gone.M I believe ANA/MEDIA has hooks where you can put in your own pattern generator  to overwrite the data.  G However, if the drive has failed (electronics etc) and can no longer be K mounted, then you have a potential problem because the magnetic media still  contain some information.   N Would breaking the seal and dropping some salt water inside the drive (or someK other solution thay would oxydize  do a good job of obliterating any data ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 16:20:36 -0500 5 From: "Bochnik, William J" <William_Bochnik@acml.com> $ Subject: RE: Demagnetize Disk DrivesO Message-ID: <2D75787AAF09C64481BDFD89113BE6D5B36532@ac2kama0102.ac.lp.acml.com>   & this subject comes up every year or soI 1 - depends on how determined the person is who wants the data - anything J from ana init all the way up to phycially destroying the disk depending on sensitivity L 2 - JF's comment gives me an idea - open the case or drill a hole in it, and? then dump it in a deep part of the ocean or in a steel mill :-)      -----Original Message-----8 From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca] & Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 1:24 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com $ Subject: Re: Demagnetize Disk Drives    G > >The reason they were asking... they were concerned that disk drives  I > >that are gotten rid (for one reason or another) had sensitive data on  / > >them that could be access by the new owners.   C If the drive is still functional, you can use VMS utilities such as H INIT/ERASE, DELETE/ERASE, ANA/MEDIA to ensure that the old data is trulyI gone. I believe ANA/MEDIA has hooks where you can put in your own pattern   generator to overwrite the data.  G However, if the drive has failed (electronics etc) and can no longer be K mounted, then you have a potential problem because the magnetic media still  contain some information.   I Would breaking the seal and dropping some salt water inside the drive (or I some other solution thay would oxydize  do a good job of obliterating any  data ?    I The information contained in this transmission may contain privileged and J confidential information and is intended only for the use of the person(s)L named above.  If you are not the intended recipient, or an employee or agentF responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, anyK review, dissemination, distribution or duplication of this communication is J strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contactD the sender immediately by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of theI original message. Please note that we do not accept account orders and/or J instructions by e-mail, and therefore will not be responsible for carrying$ out such orders and/or instructions.   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Mar 2003 15:23:56 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) $ Subject: Re: Demagnetize Disk Drives3 Message-ID: <SW6Xk3ZBEPO5@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  \ In article <b5d3rf$h8l$1@news.brutele.be>, "Marc Van Dyck" <marc.vandyck@brutele.be> writes:  > > I explained that with data stored in raid sets, the contents< > of one single disk is useless, but our security department > insisted;I  A By the time the fifth disk fails, an opponent may have something. ? And if you follow Dilbert, you know the garbageman is a smarterD person than anyone else :-   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 17:04:50 -0500 ! From: VAXVMS <bounce@notmail.com>e$ Subject: RE: Demagnetize Disk DrivesK Message-ID: <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E4903027BDF@rlghncst964.usps.gov>e  2 This has been extensively discussed in comp.os.vms before, and not without humor.   Unwrap this URL: e  L http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=00330000614081580000
 02L082*%40MHSc   The thread is 29 articles long.e  4 A particularly nefarious (and *very* funny) idea was expressed in this post:e  L http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3CC7A748.90D725C4%40mcmail.maricopa.edu &output=gplain   There's a place in Maryland:  a! Near DC- that I've been told has  2 Shredders that'll eat disk drives without so much  As slowing down, a  $ but I'll bet it's especially hard to) get anyone to let you in right about now.    Okay, I'll get serious now.o  , Here's a good place to see what's available # commercially and how much it costs.y   http://www.datadev.com/f  + NOTE NEW ADDRESS AND TELEPHONE INFORMATION:t ======================== William W. Webb-' EMS Operations, OpenVMS Systems Support % USPS DSSC Annex - 4730 Hargrove Road f Raleigh, NC 27616-2874 919.325.7500 x 4186i   -----Original Message-----6 From: "Marc Van Dyck" [mailto:marc.vandyck@brutele.be]& Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 2:12 PM To: "Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com" $ Subject: RE: Demagnetize Disk Drives    A "Doc.Cypher" <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in messages/ news:20030320174853.2895.qmail@gacracker.org...s   [snip]   >tK > If the disk is under warranty and you want a new one, you could ask HP toOL > certify that it is either destroyed or securely erased. I'm quite sure you/ > wouldn't be the first people to ask for that.  >b >  > Doc. > --< > Time and money, the psychotropics of the business world...
 > ~ VAXman https://vmsbox.cjb.net  9 Or you can pay H.P. a fee for not returning broken disks.x; They call that the "defective materials retention" service.t5 That's what we are doing. When a disk is broken, H.P. 8 replaces it but we keep the broken one, and drill a hole0 through it, before sending them to the dumpster.  < I explained that with data stored in raid sets, the contents: of one single disk is useless, but our security department8 insisted; with such a service they know exactly how much# their dreams cost to the company...u   Marc.y ========================  William W. Webb - EMS Operations) OpenVMS Systems Support - USPS DSSC Annex-, 4730 Hargrove Road, Raleigh, NC 27616-2874  > 919.325.7500 x4186  <FirstInitialLastNameAtEmailDotUSPSDotGov>   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Mar 2003 04:51:50 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>$ Subject: Re: Demagnetize Disk Drives- Message-ID: <87k7etiwwp.fsf@prep.synonet.com>t   brandon@dalsemi.com writes:   D > Our management asked us a simple question, what do we do with disk) > drives after they fail or are upgraded?a  o- > My knee jerk answer - "trash bin" or e-bay.1  2E > The reason they were asking... they were concerned that disk drivesiD > that are gotten rid (for one reason or another) had sensitive data1 > on them that could be access by the new owners.s  e > My thought out answer ...e  xD > * (disk upgrade) In the event that we upgrade a disk drive we wipeE > out the data on the disk by performing an INIT/ERASE.  We typicallytC > re-use the disk drive in some other capacity, however at times wea > have sold them.n  C As long as they stay within your Co, a simple init/erase is all yous> really need, unless it is data that they *really * care about.  F > * (disk failure) In the event that we replace a disk drive we returnF > the drive to HP and have it replaced with a new one.  Since the diskE > drive has failed there is no way to access the drive and perform an- > INIT/ERASE.  Hence the demag.:   > Now, my questions...  l  > If we use a tape demagnetizer:  E I doubt a tape bulk erases or the like will get a strong enough fieldsE to do any good. However, many drives store u-code on the platters, so F if you did, well it would be fit for windows :) And you may still have8 data left there. Life is like that you may have noticed.  F The only sure fire way is to open it up, remove the platter and returnF the rest. Opps, mostly sure. You should also remove the electronics soF you don't have any EEPROMs or FLASH to worry about. If the drive couldF have crypto keys or the like, sandblast of melt down the platters, and burn the electronics.   E Find and talk to a facilities security officer and get his advice for D different levels of pain/cost. *Do it right*, or don't do it at all,B but never ever do a cosmetic job that may fool your PHBs, but will only make the opo smile!  C So a tape eraser is either a waste of time, or it may well junk the < drive and you still can't be sure you have cleared the data.  @ Above all, get a system to identify the data and clasify it, and) document what to do when it is `retired'.I   -- e< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.o@                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 05:00:43 GMTo- From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>r$ Subject: Re: Demagnetize Disk Drives: Message-ID: <%%wea.457$TW2.334393@news1.news.adelphia.net>   Bochnik, William J wrote:a( > this subject comes up every year or soK > 1 - depends on how determined the person is who wants the data - anythinggL > from ana init all the way up to phycially destroying the disk depending on
 > sensitivityiN > 2 - JF's comment gives me an idea - open the case or drill a hole in it, andA > then dump it in a deep part of the ocean or in a steel mill :-)r  / You can search the "Ask the Wizard" section of a> http://www.openvms.compaq.com for some information about this.  H Drilling a hole may stop some people, but it is posible that if you pay F a data recovery firm enough, they will be able to recover the data on I the rest of the disk.  Consider how small a hole is compared to the rest pG of the disk.  You are playing the odds that you actually destroyed any h
 real data.  G As far as a raid volume goes, that's an it's depends.  The stripe size eI can determine how much data can be recovered.  It is quite possible that sD   there could be enough data left that things could be compromised. H Typical stripe sizes can range from 8K on up to 64K.  That can be a lot  of data.  E Also modern disk drives will revector bad blocks.  Those blocks will wI have the remains of what data was supposed to be on them.  An init/erase   will not remove that data.  I Also consider what you do with a backup tape after a drive has had lunch  H or a midnight snack.  A data recovery firm may be able to recover it if  you just send it to a landfill.e  E For many sites, an init/erase is just enough.  But as another poster i4 mentioned, you should check with your site security.  E I would prefer that used drives end up for sale intact though on the  J used market, because that is where I get supplies for my personal systems.  I I also remember someone buying a used file cabinet at a hospital auction I> a few years back, and they discovered that no one removed the C confidential patient files.  They told the press of course so that n9 everyone in town that went to the hospital knew abour it.w   -JohnK wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Onlye   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Mar 2003 21:26:14 -0800$ From: bdhobbs18@acm.org (Bill Hobbs)$ Subject: Re: Demagnetize Disk Drives= Message-ID: <74ca5032.0303202126.4b1f7f6f@posting.google.com>e  a Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote in message news:<87k7etiwwp.fsf@prep.synonet.com>...t > brandon@dalsemi.com writes:e > F > > Our management asked us a simple question, what do we do with disk+ > > drives after they fail or are upgraded?m > H > > * (disk failure) In the event that we replace a disk drive we returnH > > the drive to HP and have it replaced with a new one.  Since the diskG > > drive has failed there is no way to access the drive and perform anw! > > INIT/ERASE.  Hence the demag.u > H > The only sure fire way is to open it up, remove the platter and returnH > the rest. Opps, mostly sure. You should also remove the electronics soH > you don't have any EEPROMs or FLASH to worry about. If the drive couldH > have crypto keys or the like, sandblast of melt down the platters, and > burn the electronics.   C Back when I worked in US military buildings without any windows and B DEC had our maintenance contract, the FE would disassemble the badE RA60 packs, leave the magnetic platters with us, and take the remainsnD for, we assumed, recycling.  Once we had accumulated enough plattersD (boss: "get this crap out of here - NOW!"), we had them sand blasted> down to the aluminum.  After that, we used them for going awayB plaques.  I recall opening a few Rainbow disk drives, removing the! platters, and salvaging the rest.0  G > Find and talk to a facilities security officer and get his advice fortF > different levels of pain/cost. *Do it right*, or don't do it at all,D > but never ever do a cosmetic job that may fool your PHBs, but will > only make the opo smile!  @ Figure out how much security you need and can afford.  If you'reF dealing with SIOP, crypto, or some such, don't even bother considering= salvage and recycling - vaporize the entire drive in front of ? witnesses.  If your company manufactures sewing machine thread,nF removing the platters from an inop drive, running a degausser over theE platters, then giving the FE the drive and platters may be sufficient   and put few coins in the budget.  E > So a tape eraser is either a waste of time, or it may well junk thee> > drive and you still can't be sure you have cleared the data.  E You need to get the platters out of the drive so the degausser can doh its job.  B > Above all, get a system to identify the data and clasify it, and+ > document what to do when it is `retired'.g   Yep.   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Mar 2003 11:21:59 -08001 From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski)lF Subject: Re: DSPP Business Newsletter for North America, March edition= Message-ID: <857e9e41.0303201121.4bf9f7e1@posting.google.com>m   Folks,  A Just letting you know I have seen this, it has been forwarded and  Marketing is working on fixing.    sueu      q "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message news:<7Zjea.1590$usW1.818@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>... 7 > "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com> wrote in message + > news:3E78EDE4.32515.355CA3D5@localhost... H > > From the latest HP DSPP partner newsletter.  Thanks for the support, > > HP!  > >gG > > > DSPP membership provides a valuable benefit for software partnersdE > > > considering porting to HP-UX to take advantage of the Itanium 2t@ > > > architecture,. Whether it's Tru64 UNIX, OpenVMS or anotherC > > > operating system, our consultants will work with you over the G > > > telephone or via email, to analyze your application and operating D > > > environment and help you develop a porting strategy for moving >  thatw) > > > application to HP-UX for Itanium 2.M >  > E > Have you written to carly, Stallard, Gorham, Marcello, the board of- > directors, pointing this out?3 > ' > No wonder there's no VMS advertising.v   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Mar 2003 19:42:36 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)F Subject: Re: DSPP Business Newsletter for North America, March edition6 Message-ID: <b5d5jc$279dlo$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>  = In article <857e9e41.0303201121.4bf9f7e1@posting.google.com>,r4 	susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski) writes: > Folks, > C > Just letting you know I have seen this, it has been forwarded ando! > Marketing is working on fixing.r >    Sue,E   Please don't take this as any kind of criticism of the th great jobwH you do, but isn't that locking the barn door after the horse has alreadyF got out?  If they come back now and say. "we didn't really mean that", who is going to believe them?,     bill   -- oJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   M   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 15:41:57 -0400C0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>F Subject: Re: DSPP Business Newsletter for North America, March edition/ Message-ID: <3E7A1972.4363D88E@vl.videotron.ca>   = >         susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski) writes:u
 > > Folks, > >7E > > Just letting you know I have seen this, it has been forwarded and # > > Marketing is working on fixing.d  L Sue, my concern about such messages is that because they keep popping up nowM and then, it means that there are still some factions inside HP who are loyal ! to Scott Stallard's May 7th memo.   L Had HP truly changed its policy since the Scott Stallard memo, it would haveN taken very active steps to kill the policy set out by Stallard and ensure thatN not only nobody continued it, but that opposite message would be sent out loudW and clear. This doesn't seem to have happened, and as customers, we get mixed messages.C  K We see some people trying to include VMS, and we see other "more important" E people still talking about migrating from VMS or simply ignoring VMS.e   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Mar 2003 15:25:03 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)sF Subject: Re: DSPP Business Newsletter for North America, March edition3 Message-ID: <50Q5u+ZHuR2u@eisner.encompasserve.org>   a In article <b5d5jc$279dlo$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: ? > In article <857e9e41.0303201121.4bf9f7e1@posting.google.com>,o6 > 	susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski) writes:	 >> Folks,l >> iD >> Just letting you know I have seen this, it has been forwarded and" >> Marketing is working on fixing. >>   >  > Sue,G >   Please don't take this as any kind of criticism of the th great job J > you do, but isn't that locking the barn door after the horse has alreadyH > got out?  If they come back now and say. "we didn't really mean that", > who is going to believe them?   G If the vendor is leaving VMS, perhaps they did not give VMS Developmentf, any more advance warning than the newsgroup.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 21:42:29 GMTg# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>tF Subject: Re: DSPP Business Newsletter for North America, March editionF Message-ID: <9Bqea.4489$usW1.517@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  5 "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote in messageo0 news:b5d5jc$279dlo$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de...? > In article <857e9e41.0303201121.4bf9f7e1@posting.google.com>,a5 > susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski) writes: 
 > > Folks, > >pE > > Just letting you know I have seen this, it has been forwarded ande# > > Marketing is working on fixing.n > >  >m > Sue,C >   Please don't take this as any kind of criticism of the th greatd jobnB > you do, but isn't that locking the barn door after the horse has alreadyuA > got out?  If they come back now and say. "we didn't really meani that", > who is going to believe them?  >  >t > bill    D Hypothetically, let's assume for a moment that this was an 'innocent& mistake' in the wording of the notice.  E The ONLY way for HP to counter this is to get Carly up on her soapboxsF ASAP and tell the world in a very public manner that VMS is strategic,D not simply tactical to HP's success; to fund a major VMS advertisingE campaign that is VERY visible, and to fly around in the corporate jetrD towing a mega VMS banner behind it wherever she goes (and doing some VMS skywriting as she does).  D If it was a slipup, maybe the person/persons responsible ought to be forced to fall on their swords.r  F It's Intel's money doing the port, so what does HP have invested otherC than the maintenance revenue stream? It would be very easy kill VMSsC since without advertising the revenue stream keeps declining to theoC point where it becomes non-tenable to continue to have it in the HP 
 portfolio.  B In the absence of all the foregoing, I'm prepared to take the DSPPA notice at face value and assume that Stallard intends to kill VMSe asap, with Carly's blessing.  + HP, you have 48 hours to start advertising.s   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Mar 2003 15:41:43 -08001 From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski) F Subject: Re: DSPP Business Newsletter for North America, March edition= Message-ID: <857e9e41.0303201541.30c39d23@posting.google.com>V  E It may be closing the barn door after the horse has left, but no need + to let the other animial out or the fox in!    suee    f bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote in message news:<b5d5jc$279dlo$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>...? > In article <857e9e41.0303201121.4bf9f7e1@posting.google.com>, 6 > 	susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski) writes:
 > > Folks, > > E > > Just letting you know I have seen this, it has been forwarded ando# > > Marketing is working on fixing.d > >  >  > Sue,G >   Please don't take this as any kind of criticism of the th great jobnJ > you do, but isn't that locking the barn door after the horse has alreadyH > got out?  If they come back now and say. "we didn't really mean that", > who is going to believe them?y >  >  > bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 01:57:27 GMTh0 From: John Santos <john.santos@post.harvard.edu>F Subject: Re: DSPP Business Newsletter for North America, March edition= Message-ID: <MPG.18e43b9388b0b819896cd@news.bellatlantic.net>t  F In article <3E78EDE4.32515.355CA3D5@localhost>, stan@stanq.com says...G > From the latest HP DSPP partner newsletter.  Thanks for the support, d > HP!n > E > > DSPP membership provides a valuable benefit for software partnersfC > > considering porting to HP-UX to take advantage of the Itanium 2g> > > architecture,. Whether it's Tru64 UNIX, OpenVMS or anotherA > > operating system, our consultants will work with you over thekE > > telephone or via email, to analyze your application and operating G > > environment and help you develop a porting strategy for moving thate' > > application to HP-UX for Itanium 2.- >  > --Stan Quayle  > Quayle Consulting Inc.  ? The first sentence quoted above says "...for software partners :  considering porting to HP-UX..."  8 They should offer a similar benefit to software partners9 considering porting to VMS (oops, they do...), and should3< mention it also.  But even if they had, the black helicopter: crowd would still see it as evidence of a vast conspiracy.   -- 0 John   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 19:44:02 GMT,& From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net>F Subject: Re: EFI Specifications (was: I Have Seen The IA64 Future !!!)8 Message-ID: <d53k7vk4tr6mkvefb7puur8f0llipdoof7@4ax.com>  B On Tue, 18 Mar 2003 18:08:13 +0100, Michael Unger <unger@decus.de> wrote:  C >"Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star-dot-zko-dot-dec-dot-com> wrote:, >,O >> Te EFI is it's own animal from Intel.  I'm sure HP had input into it, as dida
 >> Microsoft.  >> a >> [...] >tF >Obviously Micro$oft added the requirement for a FAT partition on the  >system disk ... :-(  ! Okay, I'll bite... How FAT is it?c   ;-)    ------------------------------   Date: 20 Mar 2003 23:19:06 GMT' From: prosullivan@aol.com (PROSULLIVAN)r6 Subject: Fortel chapter 11 report on Fortel's website.9 Message-ID: <20030320181906.27678.00000221@mb-cu.aol.com>'  M Another VMS sofftware company in trouble. A lot of customers with performanceb0 management issues may start to look elsewhere...  I What's really interesting is that they have not been purchased by anotherD software company...e    2 http://www.fortel.com/Press/Releases/Acquired.html   post   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Mar 2003 17:17:41 -08001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)t: Subject: Re: Fortel chapter 11 report on Fortel's website.= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0303201717.62de3e33@posting.google.com>a  h prosullivan@aol.com (PROSULLIVAN) wrote in message news:<20030320181906.27678.00000221@mb-cu.aol.com>...O > Another VMS sofftware company in trouble. A lot of customers with performance 2 > management issues may start to look elsewhere... >mK > What's really interesting is that they have not been purchased by anotheri > software company...m  C Why does it matter that someone who is not another software compnay F bought them?  Would you have preferred they were bought by CA?  That'sC another software company. :-)  Seems like what matters most is thatsA someone with money and a commitment to continued support of theird! customers has come to the rescue.,   The press release says:h  = "By acquiring FORTEL's assets, DivestCap will enable FORTEL'scE customers to continue to derive maximum benefit from SightLine," saidlF Asa Lanum, President and CEO of FORTEL. "We are pleased that DivestCapD understands the value that SightLine provides our customers and will> seek to enhance this value with continued service and software	 support."p   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Mar 2003 19:48:33 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)o: Subject: Re: Fortel chapter 11 report on Fortel's website.3 Message-ID: <LIZ4UhMz+k98@eisner.encompasserve.org>   q In article <cf15391e.0303201717.62de3e33@posting.google.com>, keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) writes: j > prosullivan@aol.com (PROSULLIVAN) wrote in message news:<20030320181906.27678.00000221@mb-cu.aol.com>...P >> Another VMS sofftware company in trouble. A lot of customers with performance3 >> management issues may start to look elsewhere...  >>L >> What's really interesting is that they have not been purchased by another >> software company... > E > Why does it matter that someone who is not another software compnaytH > bought them?  Would you have preferred they were bought by CA?  That'sE > another software company. :-)  Seems like what matters most is thattC > someone with money and a commitment to continued support of theirs# > customers has come to the rescue.  >  > The press release says:l > ? > "By acquiring FORTEL's assets, DivestCap will enable FORTEL'sSG > customers to continue to derive maximum benefit from SightLine," saidDH > Asa Lanum, President and CEO of FORTEL. "We are pleased that DivestCapF > understands the value that SightLine provides our customers and will@ > seek to enhance this value with continued service and software > support."o    But the press release also says:  = 	"DivestCap specializes in acquiring and managing informationt= 	 technology companies. With over $100 million in capital andr: 	 30 years of investment and operational experience in the0 	 computer hardware and software industries,..."  = So perhaps the distinction PROSULLIVAN intended was between a)B software company and a company that invests in software companies.? Perhaps they know less about software and more about investing.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 20:59:28 -0600c1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> @ Subject: Re: How do you Detect Ethernet failure from inside code' Message-ID: <3E7A8010.2D056247@fsi.net>    Paul Hallam wrote: > ) > There are a few problems with pinging :e > F > 1) As our networks are managed by a third party we can not guarantee > the router addresses.i  	 HUH???!!!-  D So, your links are constantly dropping because the addresses change?  ) ...or are you using a DHCP client on VMS?c   -- C David J. Dachterau dba DJE Systemsx http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/a   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 21:02:12 -0600l1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> @ Subject: Re: How do you Detect Ethernet failure from inside code' Message-ID: <3E7A80B4.D16987E0@fsi.net>b   JF Mezei wrote:e >  > "David J. Dachtera" wrote:+ > > ...or try pinging your default gateway.  > P > Is there a way , from a program, to find out what the default gateway would beJ > ? Or would one have to spawn a TCPIP command and then parse its output ?  G How 'bout getting it from a group/system/cluster-wide logical name? YoumG may need to maintain it by some other process (should be static, thoughm - no maintenance necessary).   -- n David J. Dachterao dba DJE Systemsl http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/a   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 04:19:44 GMTe; From: "John Gemignani, Jr." <jon-nope@thiswontworkossc.net>l@ Subject: Re: How do you Detect Ethernet failure from inside code: Message-ID: <Apwea.446$TW2.322639@news1.news.adelphia.net>  / "Peter Flunger" <p-i-b@gmx.at> wrote in messaget* news:b5c23v$jcl$1@newsreader1.netway.at... >b/ > "Paul Hallam" <paul_hallam@hotmail.com> wrote3 > > A > > Does anyone know how to detect the network failure using QIO.  > > " > I am not sure if there is a way.@ > The folks at HP, namely the TCP/IP group, are doing some quite: > interesting and impressive stuff around detecting TCP/IP; > problems ( including interface failure ) and failing overs% > to other interfaces in such a case.d5 > I am not sure if one of them is reading this group. + > Maybe somebody from HP can jump in here ?. > Peter  >e  K In the next release there is a feature called "FAILsafe", which will do thegE interface failover automatically.  I don't know if there is a kit foro4 V5.3 -- I will have to check in the office tomorrow.   -Johnw   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 00:30:55 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>@ Subject: Re: How do you Detect Ethernet failure from inside code. Message-ID: <3E7A9579.960B8BB@vl.videotron.ca>   "John Gemignani, Jr." wrote:M > In the next release there is a feature called "FAILsafe", which will do the G > interface failover automatically.  I don't know if there is a kit for 6 > V5.3 -- I will have to check in the office tomorrow.  K Are you also on the gold coast ? Got your laptop on the beach while surfinge! both the internet and the waves ?e  K Does the Digital office on gold coast have a wireless ethernet that reaches 
 the beaches ?    :-) ;-) :-) :-) ;-) :-) :-) :-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 14:36:37 -0400v0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>F Subject: Re: How to restrict the login access number in Alpha Open VMS/ Message-ID: <3E7A0A27.310F498C@vl.videotron.ca>t   "Jorge V.S." wrote:sP >         I need that a uses can only login in one session at a time, this meansJ > that if the users is logged on, the second session sayd "you already are > logged in"   SET DEF SYS$SYSTEM MC AUTHORIZE UAF> MOD username /MAXJOBS=1  ' However this also restricts batch jobs.s  4 UAF> HELP MOD /MAXJOB  will give you the definition.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 22:42:19 -0600d1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>gF Subject: Re: How to restrict the login access number in Alpha Open VMS' Message-ID: <3E7A982B.41D02B1E@fsi.net>    "Jorge V.S." wrote:5 >  > Hello: > P >         I need that a uses can only login in one session at a time, this meansJ > that if the users is logged on, the second session sayd "you already are > logged in"   See HELP Lex F$CONTEXT  H Set up a context including username = F$GETJPI( 0, "USERNAME" ) and node& name = "*" (Any node in the cluster).   F Then, loop through that context using F$PID (See the HELP). If you getD any hits, and F$GETJPI( pid, "MODE" ) .eqs. "INTERACTIVE" for any of" them, then disallow the new login.  " There are other ways, of course...   --   David J. Dachteran dba DJE Systemsc http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/a   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 05:50:08 GMTo+ From: Jeff Cameron <JCam90502@jcameron.com>nF Subject: Re: How to restrict the login access number in Alpha Open VMS2 Message-ID: <BA9FE80F.6419%JCam90502@jcameron.com>  K On 3/20/03 8:39 AM, in article b5cqke$74v$1@news.chilesat.net, "Jorge V.S."t <jvalen@alefdata.cl> wrote:k   > Hello: > H > I need that a uses can only login in one session at a time, this meansJ > that if the users is logged on, the second session sayd "you already are > logged in" >  > thanks in advanceR >  > Jorge V.S.'030320s >  >  > 7 Call this procedure in your SYSTEM wide login.com file.h You can tailor as needed. 5 Be careful of line wraps here due to the mail system.r  
 $ONLY_ONE: $       VER = F$VERIFY (0) $       SET NOON+ $       CONTROL = F$ENVIRONMENT ("CONTROL")d $       SET NOCONTROL=(T,Y) K $!*************************************************************************  $!***e $!***   ONLY_ONE.COM $!***eI $!***   This command procedure is called by the system wide login command K $!***   procedure, usually called SYS$MANAGER:SYLOGIN.COM. It checks to seeaI $!***   if there are any other interactive logins by the same user on theeK $!***   current system. If there are, then the user is notified, and logged  $!***   out. $!***t$ $!***   Author :        Jeff Cameron4 $!***                   http://www.jcameron.com/vms/ $!***a $!***   Modification history : $!***-3 $!***   Programmer      Date            Description K $!***----------------------------------------------------------------------s9 $!***   Jeff Cameron    29-JUN-1996     Initially written3K $!***----------------------------------------------------------------------  $!*** K $!*************************************************************************  $!, $!***   First determine our username and PID, $       THIS_USER = F$GETJPI ("","USERNAME")' $       THIS_PID  = F$GETJPI ("","PID")h $ ( $!***   IF we are not interactive, leave: $       IF (F$MODE() .NES. "INTERACTIVE") THEN $ GOTO EXIT% $!***   Now Search the current systems	 $RECHECK:i $       CONTEXT = ""
 $PID_LOOP:" $       TEST_PID = F$PID (CONTEXT)/ $       IF (TEST_PID .EQS. "") THEN $ GOTO EXIT  $ ; $!***   Continue searching if this is not the same usernames- $       USER = F$GETJPI (TEST_PID,"USERNAME")s6 $       IF (USER .NES. THIS_USER) THEN $ GOTO PID_LOOP $b8 $!***   We are the same user, are we looking at ourself?9 $       IF (TEST_PID .EQS. THIS_PID) THEN $ GOTO PID_LOOPE $E( $!***   Is the test process a subprocessE $       IF (F$GETJPI(TEST_PID,"OWNER") .NES. "") THEN $ GOTO PID_LOOPu $w# $!***   Is the process interactive.eA $       IF (F$GETJPI(TEST_PID,"MODE") .NES. "INTERACTIVE") THEN -n $          GOTO PID_LOOP $ + $!***   Otherwise we are already logged in.e- $       TERM = F$GETJPI (TEST_PID,"TERMINAL")  $       WRITE SYS$OUTPUT -;             "Warning: Username ",F$EDIT(THIS_USER,"TRIM"),-l$             " is already logged in." $       WRITE SYS$OUTPUT -F             "Do you want terminate the other login and continue here?" $CHOICE: $       WRITE SYS$OUTPUT -C             " Y=Logout other login at ",TERM,", and continue here."u/ $       WRITE SYS$OUTPUT " N=Logout this login"r+ $       INQUIRE RESPONSE " Choice (Y or N)"g> $       RESP = F$EXTRACT (0,1,F$EDIT (RESPONSE,"TRIM,UPCASE"))) $       IF (RESP .EQS. "N") THEN $ LOGOUTi. $       IF (RESP .NES. "Y") THEN $ GOTO CHOICE $d $!***   Stop the other guy $       STOP/ID='test_pid' $       GOTO RECHECK $lB $!***   Alls well, let this login continue, they are the only one. $EXIT:< $       IF (CONTROL .NES. "") THEN $ SET CONTROL=('control') $       VER = F$VERIFY (VER) $       EXIT   Jeff Cameron   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Mar 2003 15:13:18 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)a, Subject: Re: I Have Seen The IA64 Future !!!3 Message-ID: <LJnXoKBY0Hq3@eisner.encompasserve.org>   R In article <00A1D297.75A36653.23@decus.de>, Michael Unger <unger@decus.de> writes:D > "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star-dot-zko-dot-dec-dot-com> wrote:  L >> But what exactly are you trying to solve?  If there is some useful/neededN >> things that should be in flash ROM, then it will be there.  But VMS doesn'tC >> want to *require* anything special in flash that isn't standard.  > F > So the "requirements" will be determined by the "Windows" standard? 0 > That's far less than VMS users tend to expect.  H I would expect the "requirements" will be decided by those designing theG hardware platform.  I would expect SuperDome or it's successor (ItaniumcI analog to a GS1280) will have features aimed more at enterprise customers  than at Windows customers.  H > Perhaps it is time for HP to put some serious explanations on EFI and I > booting VMS on Itanic on the VMS web pages instead of just refering to d > the "Intel developer pages".  6 Particularly given Intel's reader-unfriendly web site.   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Mar 2003 14:45:32 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski); Subject: In times like this, isn't it nice to be on VMS ...g= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0303201445.3a843919@posting.google.com>   2 I sure think so ... Andrew, what's the patch count2 now for slowaris compared to VMS ... oh, I forgot, security is irrelavant ...   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 19:42:40 -0500I* From: "rob kas" <r0b@paychoice.nospam.com>? Subject: Re: In times like this, isn't it nice to be on VMS ... 7 Message-ID: <oKsea.49$D93.34810916@news.netcarrier.net>.  5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in messager7 news:d7791aa1.0303201445.3a843919@posting.google.com...d4 > I sure think so ... Andrew, what's the patch count4 > now for slowaris compared to VMS ... oh, I forgot, > security is irrelavant ...          Much Like you..........   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Mar 2003 16:59:02 -0800+ From: davidc@montagar.com (David L. Cathey)eJ Subject: Re: Is http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/ down?  ATTN: Baby Peanut= Message-ID: <e565ed03.0303201659.25263d83@posting.google.com>   l baby_p_nut@yahoo.com (Baby Peanut) wrote in message news:<c5cf6e8.0303170524.7e7da2ce@posting.google.com>...O > They took my money and I have nothing to show for it after months and months.  > < > Now I'm supposed to apologize for what?  Being ripped off?  A I've e-mailed you earlier this week, and you have appearently note? responded.  You have received the CD you purchased.  If you cangA provide your DECUS/Encompass information, I can look into why you E have not received licenses.  Unless you contact me, I can't help you.a   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Mar 2003 14:44:30 -0600+ From: kuhrt@encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt)=% Subject: java 1.4.0-1 on V7.3 problem 3 Message-ID: <+BuyxL2QPFVX@eisner.encompasserve.org>   A I've run into a problem using java 1.4.0-1 on a V7.3 system with 1B the recommended patches installed.  When I try to run the swingset= demo is doesn't work, running the same demo in 1.3.1 is fine.p   $ java -versiony java version "1.4.0"0 Java(TM) 2 Runtime Environment, Standard EditionE Fast VM (build 1.4.0-1, build J2SDK.v.1.4.0:01/10/2003-09:47, native e threads, jit_140)pA $ java -jar sys$common:[java$140.demo.jfc.swingset2]SWINGSET2.JARr) if_get_ifinfo:: no such device or addresst5 $ @SYS$COMMON:[JAVA$140.COM]JAVA$140_CANCEL_SETUP.COM.3 $ @SYS$COMMON:[JAVA$131.COM]JAVA$131_SETUP.COM FASTg4 Setting up symbols for foreign command line usage...N %DCL-I-SUPERSEDE, previous value of JAVA$FILENAME_CONTROLS has been superseded% JAVA$FILENAME_CONTROLS now set to: -1  $ java -versionr java version "1.3.1"0 Java(TM) 2 Runtime Environment, Standard EditionE Fast VM (build 1.3.1-3, build J2SDK.v.1.3.1:03/22/2002-15:43, native y threads, jit_131)wA $ java -jar sys$common:[java$131.demo.jfc.swingset2]SWINGSET2.JARm <works fine>    Command line programs work fine.  ( Any clues as to what the problem may be?   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Mar 2003 18:38:12 -05007 From: "Gareth V. Williams" <graff@cfa0.cfa.harvard.edu> 2 Subject: LOGINOUT.EXE locked by other user problem0 Message-ID: <3e7a50e4.0@cfanews.cfa.harvard.edu>  F Has anyone any thoughts on this problem that has afflicted our VMS webJ server in recent days?  The system is V7.2-1, with Purveyor 2.1 and TCP/IP 5.0-A.  B Every so often (sometimes as frequently as once every 2 mins to asG infrequently as it is difficult to get it to occur once an hour!) a cgi D request from one of the forms on our web site will fail with a "fileH locked by another user" error.  Which file is locked is not mentioned inI the error message.  After some digging and examination of OPCOM messages,a I found this error:o  8 %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  20-MAR-2003 18:16:30.15  %%%%%%%%%%%( Message from user AUDIT$SERVER on SCULLYI Security alarm (SECURITY) and security audit (SECURITY) on SCULLY, systemr	  id: 6706s8 Auditable event:          Detached process login failure1 Event time:               20-MAR-2003 18:16:30.15t" PID:                      33400360) Process name:             Purveyor   000D  Username:                 HTTPD ! Process owner:            [HTTPD] K Image name:               SCULLY$DKB0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSEXE]LOGINOUT.EXE K Status:                   %RMS-E-FLK, file currently locked by another useri  , LOGINOUT.EXE is installed as a shared image:  	 $ install1 INSTALL> list/full loginout-  + DISK$SCU_SYSTEM:<SYS0.SYSCOMMON.SYSEXE>.EXE )    LOGINOUT;1       Open Hdr SharAddr Prvs(         Entry access count         = 624*         Current / Maximum shared   = 0 / 4&         Global section count       = 5M         Privileges = CMKRNL SYSNAM LOG_IO ALTPRI TMPMBX SYSPRV AUDIT SECURITY-M         Authorized = CMKRNL SYSNAM LOG_IO ALTPRI TMPMBX SYSPRV AUDIT SECURITYt)         Resident section count     = 0000D         ARB Support = READ_ONLY7  C   My first question would be "Why is a installed shared image beinghG locked?"  A second would be "How do I locate what is locking the file?"      --  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------H Gareth V. Williams, MS 18, 60 Garden Street, Cambridge, MA 02138, U.S.A.+ Associate Director, IAU Minor Planet Center H gwilliams@cfa.harvard.edu        http://cfa-www.harvard.edu/iau/mpc.html7 OpenVMS & RISC OS: refined choices in operating systems    ------------------------------    Date: 20 Mar 2003 18:36:34 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)i6 Subject: Re: LOGINOUT.EXE locked by other user problem3 Message-ID: <R0DHMWyWC3Di@eisner.encompasserve.org>   j In article <3e7a50e4.0@cfanews.cfa.harvard.edu>, "Gareth V. Williams" <graff@cfa0.cfa.harvard.edu> writes:H > Has anyone any thoughts on this problem that has afflicted our VMS webL > server in recent days?  The system is V7.2-1, with Purveyor 2.1 and TCP/IP > 5.0-A.  M > Image name:               SCULLY$DKB0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSEXE]LOGINOUT.EXEcM > Status:                   %RMS-E-FLK, file currently locked by another user   F Effective at least 23 years ago, the most frequent cause of this errorF is a locally written program that opens SYSUAF.DAT without proper fileC sharing.  A close second might be an add-on product making the samet mistake.  G Before the advent of PIXSCAN it was possible to do this with a prioritya
 inversion.  E >   My first question would be "Why is a installed shared image being   = LOGINOUT.EXE is the failing image, not the file being locked.i  I > locked?"  A second would be "How do I locate what is locking the file?"   7 SHOW DEVICE/FILES 'F$PARSE("SYSUAF","SYS$SYSTEM:.DAT")'r   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 00:47:56 GMTl From: "McEagle" <spam@spam.com> 6 Subject: Re: LOGINOUT.EXE locked by other user problem; Message-ID: <0jtea.19735$M7.501334@twister.tampabay.rr.com>t  L I too have seen this problem (infrequently) on my 7.2-1 systems.   Any help?   Mike  B "Gareth V. Williams" <graff@cfa0.cfa.harvard.edu> wrote in message* news:3e7a50e4.0@cfanews.cfa.harvard.edu...H > Has anyone any thoughts on this problem that has afflicted our VMS webL > server in recent days?  The system is V7.2-1, with Purveyor 2.1 and TCP/IP > 5.0-A. >gD > Every so often (sometimes as frequently as once every 2 mins to asI > infrequently as it is difficult to get it to occur once an hour!) a cgi F > request from one of the forms on our web site will fail with a "fileJ > locked by another user" error.  Which file is locked is not mentioned inK > the error message.  After some digging and examination of OPCOM messages,e > I found this error:  >.: > %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  20-MAR-2003 18:16:30.15  %%%%%%%%%%%* > Message from user AUDIT$SERVER on SCULLYK > Security alarm (SECURITY) and security audit (SECURITY) on SCULLY, system  >  id: 6706n: > Auditable event:          Detached process login failure3 > Event time:               20-MAR-2003 18:16:30.15o$ > PID:                      33400360+ > Process name:             Purveyor   000Ds! > Username:                 HTTPD # > Process owner:            [HTTPD] 
 > Image name:l1 SCULLY$DKB0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSEXE]LOGINOUT.EXEuH > Status:                   %RMS-E-FLK, file currently locked by another user >n. > LOGINOUT.EXE is installed as a shared image: >w > $ installc > INSTALL> list/full loginoutd >o- > DISK$SCU_SYSTEM:<SYS0.SYSCOMMON.SYSEXE>.EXE + >    LOGINOUT;1       Open Hdr SharAddr Prvh* >         Entry access count         = 624, >         Current / Maximum shared   = 0 / 4( >         Global section count       = 5F >         Privileges = CMKRNL SYSNAM LOG_IO ALTPRI TMPMBX SYSPRV AUDIT SECURITYF >         Authorized = CMKRNL SYSNAM LOG_IO ALTPRI TMPMBX SYSPRV AUDIT SECURITY+ >         Resident section count     = 0000t! >         ARB Support = READ_ONLY  >yE >   My first question would be "Why is a installed shared image beingfI > locked?"  A second would be "How do I locate what is locking the file?"r >n >e > --J > ------------------------------------------------------------------------J > Gareth V. Williams, MS 18, 60 Garden Street, Cambridge, MA 02138, U.S.A.- > Associate Director, IAU Minor Planet CentereJ > gwilliams@cfa.harvard.edu        http://cfa-www.harvard.edu/iau/mpc.html9 > OpenVMS & RISC OS: refined choices in operating systemsh >a   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 21:31:07 -0400r0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>6 Subject: Re: LOGINOUT.EXE locked by other user problem/ Message-ID: <3E7A6B34.EA58BEF2@vl.videotron.ca>h  < > > Auditable event:          Detached process login failure5 > > Event time:               20-MAR-2003 18:16:30.15a& > > PID:                      33400360- > > Process name:             Purveyor   000Dj# > > Username:                 HTTPD % > > Process owner:            [HTTPD]D > > Image name:03 > SCULLY$DKB0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSEXE]LOGINOUT.EXElJ > > Status:                   %RMS-E-FLK, file currently locked by another > user     My gut feeling:   L You have multiple instances of a process trying to write to a log file. WhenH you try to create the next instance of the process, it fails because itsJ output file cannot be created. Reason ? Because you have a certain versionN limit, and you have "version limit" log files still active/locked by the otherK processes. Because it can't delete the oldest version, you can't create the  newer version.   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Mar 2003 14:43:23 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski), Subject: Micro$oft patch freezes systems ...= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0303201443.220842c7@posting.google.com>    turns them into ice cubes ...p  * http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1104-993515.html   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 14:20:19 -0500I; From: "Brian Tillman" <Brian.Tillman@notnoone.notnohow.com>r Subject: Re: Micromedex on VMS" Message-ID: <3e7a1469@news.si.com>  D >If you tell us what Micromedex is it is more likely that you get an appropriate0 >answer.  = www.micromedex.com might be a good place to find your answer.R -- PI Brian Tillman         Internet: Brian.Tillman at smiths-aerospace dot com$5 Smiths Aerospace  Addresses modified to prevent SPAM.e@ 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS Replace "at" with "@", "dot" with "." Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991e8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Mar 2003 15:54:50 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)t Subject: Re: Micromedex on VMS3 Message-ID: <IEXd3XCjbaEi@eisner.encompasserve.org>r  P In article <3E79C81F.A89A9FF7@cha.ab.ca>, Lee Y T Mah <lytmah@cha.ab.ca> writes:8 > Micromedex on VMS (VAX/Alpha) is a text-based databaseE > providing toxicology, drug, disease... information to practitionersc= > in the healthcare industry.  The vendor wants to move theirv; > VMS/AIX/Sun... customers to their internet, intranet, andn > Windows platforms.  C    Remind the vendor where Microsoft states that Windows is not for1B    critical systems and ask him if he's taking on the liability or=    responsibility for making it useable as a critical system.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 15:16:29 -0700t$ From: Lee Y T Mah <lytmah@cha.ab.ca> Subject: Re: Micromedex on VMS) Message-ID: <3E7A3DBC.868F5EA0@cha.ab.ca>e  > Micromedex is already running on our intranet, and it is being= accessed at some of our sites.  The text-based version on VMSp; is available 24x365 and is being accessed over VT terminalsnB in critical areas of our healthcare institution.  We can't migrate@ all these users to PC's that quickly.  Compare the time it takes; to reset a terminal server port versus rebooting a hung PC.t     Bob Koehler wrote:  R > In article <3E79C81F.A89A9FF7@cha.ab.ca>, Lee Y T Mah <lytmah@cha.ab.ca> writes:: > > Micromedex on VMS (VAX/Alpha) is a text-based databaseG > > providing toxicology, drug, disease... information to practitionerse? > > in the healthcare industry.  The vendor wants to move theirg= > > VMS/AIX/Sun... customers to their internet, intranet, and- > > Windows platforms. >5E >    Remind the vendor where Microsoft states that Windows is not forRD >    critical systems and ask him if he's taking on the liability or? >    responsibility for making it useable as a critical system.c   -- LeeD  	 L Y T Mahd   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 18:30:38 -0500e' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>> Subject: RE: Micromedex on VMST Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF403FB5AFC@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Lee,  D <<< Compare the time it takes to reset a terminal server port versus rebooting a hung PC.<<<   H Or compare the number of known viruses between a PC and a VT terminal ..  A May sound like poor comparison, but not when you are dealing withe life-n-death situations.   Regardse  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantt Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.! Consulting & Integration Servicesd Voice: 613-592-4660m Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom-     (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s)2 OpenVMS DCL - the original .COMJ   -----Original Message-----. From: Lee Y T Mah [mailto:lytmah@cha.ab.ca]=20 Sent: March 20, 2003 5:16 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comn Subject: Re: Micromedex on VMS    G Micromedex is already running on our intranet, and it is being accessed7H at some of our sites.  The text-based version on VMS is available 24x365@ and is being accessed over VT terminals in critical areas of ourF healthcare institution.  We can't migrate all these users to PC's thatC quickly.  Compare the time it takes to reset a terminal server portg versus rebooting a hung PC.a     Bob Koehler wrote:  : > In article <3E79C81F.A89A9FF7@cha.ab.ca>, Lee Y T Mah=20 > <lytmah@cha.ab.ca> writes:G > > Micromedex on VMS (VAX/Alpha) is a text-based database providing=20"G > > toxicology, drug, disease... information to practitioners in the=20 J > > healthcare industry.  The vendor wants to move their VMS/AIX/Sun...=20A > > customers to their internet, intranet, and Windows platforms.  >cE >    Remind the vendor where Microsoft states that Windows is not for D >    critical systems and ask him if he's taking on the liability or? >    responsibility for making it useable as a critical system.V   -- Lee,  	 L Y T Mahr   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 14:34:52 -0500 ; From: "Brian Tillman" <Brian.Tillman@notnoone.notnohow.com>a3 Subject: Re: National Moratorium to Appease Tyrantst$ Message-ID: <3e7a17d2$1@news.si.com>  J >So please, don't accuse Iraq of stuff you have no current evidence about.  F Apparently, JF, you didn't hear the interviews with the head of Iraq's nucluar program. -- hI Brian Tillman         Internet: Brian.Tillman at smiths-aerospace dot come5 Smiths Aerospace  Addresses modified to prevent SPAM.e@ 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS Replace "at" with "@", "dot" with "." Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991h8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 14:29:32 -0400-0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>5 Subject: Re: Next OpenVMS Advanced Technical Bootcampc/ Message-ID: <3E7A087F.9F1AF202@vl.videotron.ca>,   Alan Frisbie wrote:-< > "How we got there" -- The most intimate details of how VMS; > Engineering got VMS to boot on IA-64.   The first studiesn< > of the IA-64 architecture, the tools that had to be built,< > code built from scratch, code that was ported, interesting; > hacks, and (especially) the people who did it all.   Deade@ > ends, goofs, setbacks, interesting anecdotes and dirty laundry > will be aired.  K While this would be an interesting topic, it is perhaps better suited for asE plenary session or a lunch/dinner speech, as opposed to the technical S presentations. Anecdotes don't make you more productive when building applications.n  D providing technical information and updated on upcoming additions ofM tools/services used by programmers to build applications would provide better  value for the money.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 14:03:25 -05002; From: "Brian Tillman" <Brian.Tillman@notnoone.notnohow.com>. Subject: Re: Nice update!D$ Message-ID: <3e7a1072$1@news.si.com>  G >did you wipe out the disk and start fresh or did you perform a rollingc upgrade?  K I did a stand-alone upgrade, since the Alpha is the only Alpha I have, witht its own system disk. -- eI Brian Tillman         Internet: Brian.Tillman at smiths-aerospace dot comd5 Smiths Aerospace  Addresses modified to prevent SPAM.d@ 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS Replace "at" with "@", "dot" with "." Grand Rapids, MI 49512-199168        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 14:03:52 -0500e; From: "Brian Tillman" <Brian.Tillman@notnoone.notnohow.com>u Subject: Re: Nice update! $ Message-ID: <3e7a108d$1@news.si.com>  G >Once I see your other replys to this message I would like to use it as % >and OpenVMS Pearl what do you think?r   Be my guest! --  I Brian Tillman         Internet: Brian.Tillman at smiths-aerospace dot coms5 Smiths Aerospace  Addresses modified to prevent SPAM.y@ 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS Replace "at" with "@", "dot" with "." Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991 8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Mar 2003 15:21:34 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: Re: Nice update!i3 Message-ID: <I+ZC8fxj0vOW@eisner.encompasserve.org>D  b In article <3e7a108d$1@news.si.com>, "Brian Tillman" <Brian.Tillman@notnoone.notnohow.com> writes:H >>Once I see your other replys to this message I would like to use it as& >>and OpenVMS Pearl what do you think? >  > Be my guest!  D Sue must be waiting to see of the rest of us claim the upgrade is so5 complex that Brian didn't know it actually failed :-)f  0 Brian must just _think_ the system is running...   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Mar 2003 17:07:44 -08001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)s? Subject: OpenVMS as a growth platform; and low-cost development = Message-ID: <cf15391e.0303201707.609dc699@posting.google.com>1  E The HP User Advocacy website (http://www.hpuseradvocacy.org) providess@ a channel for users to ask questions of HP and get answers.  TheF following is taken from the most recent 'HP User Group Online Advocacy Newsletter': ---t OpenVMS as a growth platform ----------------------------F HP OpenVMS remains a strategic product for the company and the portingD of the operating system to the Itanium architecture provides HP with, the opportunity to explore new growth areas.  > Most growth opportunities are "solutions led", therefore HP is= continuing to work with top ISVs in growth industries such asaB Healthcare and Financial Services to grow the OpenVMS business. In@ addition HP continuously analyze business opportunities in other market segments.  * OpenVMS as a low-cost developer's platform* ------------------------------------------C HP is currently preparing pricing for the Itanium-based systems. As D part of this preparation, an HP task force is currently evaluating aD low-cost developers' platform based on an Itanium-based workstation.  A HP OpenVMS will be making OpenVMS Software Development Kits (SDK)iD available for partners at a very low cost ($75) in 2003. Information? will be posted on the OpenVMS Web site when they are available.n  E For more in-depth information on these responses and to view previous A HP responses, visit the HP User Group Online Advocacy's Web site.e7 http://www.hpuseradvocacy.org/index.cfm?source=advocacye   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 19:17:50 GMT ' From: Rick Dyson <rick-dyson@uiowa.edu> ) Subject: Re: OpenVMS SMP License Question-) Message-ID: <3E7A13DE.3CC50FC4@uiowa.edu>3   Robert Deininger wrote:m > 6 > In article <3E78EF3C.A060A8E4@uiowa.edu>, Rick Dyson > <rick-dyson@uiowa.edu> wrote:g > M > >How do I tell if my system has an SMP license installed or not?  Is this a2P > >LMF entry?  I am looking into aquiring a new GS60 6/525 dual CPU module to goN > >along with my current one (4 CPUs total then) and I was told I would need a > >SMP license.l >mG > On Alpha, SMP license PAKs provide additional units of OPENVMS-ALPHA.h > D > In the in-memory license database (SHOW LICENSE), all the eligibleK > OPENVMS-ALPHA units will be combined, so you can't tell how many separate> > PAKs are involved. > L > Alpha systems are generally shipped with the right number of license unitsK > for the CPUs included.  Unless you have an odd configuration, such as one K > involving an upgrade with license transfer, you will probably need to addm > one or more SMP PAKs.c  A Here is what my License database for OPENVMS-ALPHA has currently:   !  Issuer:                      DEC /  Authorization:               ALS-WM-95182-1988F+  Product Name:                OPENVMS-ALPHAa!  Producer:                    DECD"  Units:                       2100!  Version:                     0.0C$  Release Date:                (none)$  PAK Termination Date:        (none)  Availability:                0 O  Activity:                    A (VAX/VMS Capacity or OpenVMS Unlimited or Base) &  Options:                     NO_SHARE
  Hardware ID:o  M Can anyone tell if this supports 1, 2 or 4 CPUs?  I have never understood thea units value. :)a  6 I also have an OPENVMS-ALPHA-USER pak with zero units:  B  Issuer:                      DEC                                 3  Authorization:               A0702-CAMPUSWIDE-1929t0  Product Name:                OPENVMS-ALPHA-USER"  Producer:                    DEC   Units:                       0-$  Version:                     0.0   $  Release Date:                (none)2  PAK Termination Date:        30-OCT-2003         0  Availability:                0                 (  Activity:                     000000100  Options:                       Hardware ID:                    Regards, rick   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 19:06:32 GMTr' From: Rick Dyson <rick-dyson@uiowa.edu>n) Subject: Re: OpenVMS SMP License Questione) Message-ID: <3E7A1138.5D02CEC1@uiowa.edu>c   "Keith A. Lewis" wrote:i > x > Rick Dyson <rick-dyson@uiowa.edu> writes in article <3E78EF3C.A060A8E4@uiowa.edu> dated Wed, 19 Mar 2003 22:29:16 GMT:M > >How do I tell if my system has an SMP license installed or not?  Is this a0P > >LMF entry?  I am looking into aquiring a new GS60 6/525 dual CPU module to goN > >along with my current one (4 CPUs total then) and I was told I would need a > >SMP license.o > > O > >I have upgraded/added CPUs in other systems long ago but don't remember ever O > >literally adding anything into any database anywhere.  It just worked when Ie% > >plugged it in and turned it on. :)P > H > VMS started enforcing the additional CPU license requirements sometime
 > around 6.2.  > A > My dual-CPU DS20E systems came with one 50-unit and one 25-unitlN > OPENVMS-ALPHA PAK.  I figure the 50 is for the system with the first CPU and# > the 25 is for the additional CPU.o > L > If you install the CPUs before the licenses, the system will boot but in aK > crippled mode with no clustering or network services.  But you can log inm$ > from the console and check it out. >  > $ LICENSE LOAD OPENVMS-ALPHA > $ SHOW LICENSE/UNIT  > K > The above commands tell you what you need, look at the type A requirementeK > and see if you have that many loaded.  Better yet, if somebody here has asG > GS60 with 4 CPUs, run the SHOW command and post the results for Rick.3  ( Here is the output from my current GS60:   $ sho lic /unitu( VMS/LMF Charge Information for node MISCA This is a Compaq AlphaServer GS60 6/525, hardware model type 1842oO Type: A, Units Required: 2100   (VAX/VMS Capacity or OpenVMS Unlimited or Base)(4 Type: B, * Not Permitted *      (VAX/VMS F&A Server)9 Type: C, * Not Permitted *      (VAX/VMS Concurrent User)o5 Type: D, * Not Permitted *      (VAX/VMS Workstation)PD Type: E, * Not Permitted *      (VAX/VMS System Integrated Products)6 Type: F, * Not Permitted *      (VAX Layered Products)* Type: G, * Not Permitted *      (Reserved)8 Type: H, Units Required: 1150   (Alpha Layered Products)2 Type: I, Units Required: 1150   (Layered Products)  K As someone else noticed, I am an EDU and I do use the CSLG.  I thought that@H might be why I didn't have to do anything in the past or even purchase a specific license.D  J Does this help anyone determine whether I could power off, insert the CPU 4 module and then boot up using all 4 CPUs right away?   Rick   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 21:16:20 +0000 (UTC) , From: lewis@mazda.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)) Subject: Re: OpenVMS SMP License Questiont. Message-ID: <b5db34$dog$1@newslocal.mitre.org>  v Rick Dyson <rick-dyson@uiowa.edu> writes in article <3E7A13DE.3CC50FC4@uiowa.edu> dated Thu, 20 Mar 2003 19:17:50 GMT:B >Here is what my License database for OPENVMS-ALPHA has currently: >-" > Issuer:                      DEC0 > Authorization:               ALS-WM-95182-1988, > Product Name:                OPENVMS-ALPHA" > Producer:                    DEC# > Units:                       2100." > Version:                     0.0% > Release Date:                (none)l% > PAK Termination Date:        (none)m  > Availability:                0P > Activity:                    A (VAX/VMS Capacity or OpenVMS Unlimited or Base)' > Options:                     NO_SHARES > Hardware ID:  G This 2100 units exactly matches the requirements number from your otherdK post, indicating you have 0 units to spare.  My guess is that you will need16 2300 units (this PAK plus 200) to run a 4-CPU version.  I Do you have any old alphas that you don't need VMS on any more?  Read the B fine print to see what you have to do legally to transfer a PAK.    7 >I also have an OPENVMS-ALPHA-USER pak with zero units:  >oC > Issuer:                      DEC                                 h4 > Authorization:               A0702-CAMPUSWIDE-19291 > Product Name:                OPENVMS-ALPHA-USERi# > Producer:                    DEC    > Units:                       0% > Version:                     0.0   t% > Release Date:                (none) 3 > PAK Termination Date:        30-OCT-2003         s1 > Availability:                0                  ) > Activity:                     000000100s > Options:                       > Hardware ID:                 y  K This relates to the number of users allowed to log in at the same time -- 0oF means infinite, otherwise you would divide by 100 and add 1 to get theD number of simultaneous users allowed.  It has nothing to do with the number of CPUs.l  + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.orgD> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 23:01:11 +0100c4 From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr> Subject: Re: Rich Marcello& Message-ID: <3E7A3A27.4060900@Free.fr>   Patriarche wrote:o   >Sorry for my English... >e( >Is Rich Marcello always in HP today ??? > ) >Does he support WMS or does he go away ?  >cK We actually do not know. What we do know, for sure, (well, *I* do) is that:r  G 1. HP does not advert on VMS/IA64 as a future product. If Sue and some  H valuable people from VMS Engineering were not present to actually proof G that it is nearly a product, the market could definitely think that HP *F terminated what Compaq nearly succeeded to do, i.e. kill VMS (this is G why, today, the last users of VMS in Europe are so numerous to ask for o7 studies on the future of VMS (two requests this week)).O  G 2. I sent a personal paper letter to Rich a few months ago to (humbly) nA suggest him some help in Europe (as I have some knowledge of the hI product, of the market and because I used to work for DEC during the VMS : glory): I got no answer.  D 3. I also sent via email to him facts about *very* big Customers in G Europe "thinking" of their future, i.e. leaving VMS or not. I thought, tH naive, that these news could be interesting. I know that Rich forwarded E my email to Mark (I say I know because I was in Cc). I got no answer !
 from Mark.   What was your question, again?   D.3 Another_VMS_Papy_since_1981 (Dassault, Saint Cloud)*   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 18:32:25 -0500e' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>S Subject: RE: Rich MarcelloT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660E73@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Didier,   H <<< (this is why, today, the last users of VMS in Europe are so numerousE to ask for studies on the future of VMS (two requests this week)).<<<   G And did you provide a pointer and/or send them the official HP strategyI and roadmaps presentations?c  
 Reference:H http://h18003.www1.hp.com/hps/ipf-enterprise/download/ASDUPDATEDSTRATEGY JAN03.pdf=20  E (Jan 2003 updated - look at slide 21 - OpenVMS on Superdome, mid tierr and low end IPF systems)  H And if they are wondering about OpenVMS compares to other vendor cluster4 and disaster tolerant products, have them check out:H http://www.tru64unix.compaq.com/unix/illuminata_dt_unix_research_note.pd fs   Regardse  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant, Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.! Consulting & Integration Services  Voice: 613-592-4660e Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom-     (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s)- OpenVMS DCL - the original .COM"     -----Original Message-----> From: Didier Morandi [mailto:Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr]=20 Sent: March 20, 2003 5:01 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comn Subject: Re: Rich Marcello     Patriarche wrote:    >Sorry for my English... >g( >Is Rich Marcello always in HP today ??? > ) >Does he support WMS or does he go away ?  > E We actually do not know. What we do know, for sure, (well, *I* do) is$ that:E  I 1. HP does not advert on VMS/IA64 as a future product. If Sue and some=20FJ valuable people from VMS Engineering were not present to actually proof=20I that it is nearly a product, the market could definitely think that HP=20 H terminated what Compaq nearly succeeded to do, i.e. kill VMS (this is=20I why, today, the last users of VMS in Europe are so numerous to ask for=20X7 studies on the future of VMS (two requests this week)).a  I 2. I sent a personal paper letter to Rich a few months ago to (humbly)=20aC suggest him some help in Europe (as I have some knowledge of the=200H product, of the market and because I used to work for DEC during the VMS   glory): I got no answer.  F 3. I also sent via email to him facts about *very* big Customers in=20I Europe "thinking" of their future, i.e. leaving VMS or not. I thought,=20eJ naive, that these news could be interesting. I know that Rich forwarded=20G my email to Mark (I say I know because I was in Cc). I got no answer=20s
 from Mark.   What was your question, again?   D.3 Another_VMS_Papy_since_1981 (Dassault, Saint Cloud)l   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Mar 2003 14:23:07 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)+ Subject: Sun unix/linux new nasty bug cert!o= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0303201423.3634e54c@posting.google.com>r  + the inquirer has the details, and Andrew, I * guess certs aren't important, esp. if they point to your os ...  ( http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=8436   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 14:07:47 -0500d; From: "Brian Tillman" <Brian.Tillman@notnoone.notnohow.com>d+ Subject: Re: System crash, should I worry ?-$ Message-ID: <3e7a1179$1@news.si.com>    >This is VAX. CLUE doesn't exist  ! Um, yes it does, as freeware fromn< ftp://ftp.process.com/vms-freeware/fileserv/clue$sda_vax.zip -- 3I Brian Tillman         Internet: Brian.Tillman at smiths-aerospace dot comu5 Smiths Aerospace  Addresses modified to prevent SPAM. @ 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS Replace "at" with "@", "dot" with "." Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991 8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 14:10:58 -0500s; From: "Brian Tillman" <Brian.Tillman@notnoone.notnohow.com>o+ Subject: Re: System crash, should I worry ?7$ Message-ID: <3e7a1238$1@news.si.com>   > SDA> CLUE CRASHt  I While, as I said, CLUE for OpenVMS VAX does exist, the above command doesSH not.  CLUE on a VAX supports the command CONFIG, DEBUG, MEMORY, PROCESS,E SECTIONS, TERMINAL, and EXIT.  So what I said is a little misleading.2 -- 0I Brian Tillman         Internet: Brian.Tillman at smiths-aerospace dot comm5 Smiths Aerospace  Addresses modified to prevent SPAM.-@ 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS Replace "at" with "@", "dot" with "." Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991o8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 23:06:23 +0100m( From: "Philip Lewis" <philip@nospam.com> Subject: Re: This newsgroupg- Message-ID: <b5debt$1ccd$1@news.cybercity.dk>w   Hmm,  J "honesty and zeal for VMS" - not something one has really seen from CompaQ or HP.   Just an observation. pE   Sue Skonetski wrote:H > In case I have not mentioned in lately, I just wanted to say thank youD > for being you.  Thank you for your help, your honesty and zeal for > VMS. >: > Sue Skonetskiu" > OpenVMS Technical field programs > susan.skonetski@hp.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 16:24:25 -0800e, From: Sam Yorko <JOATnospamMON@computer.org> Subject: Re: unixh, Message-ID: <3E7A5BB9.787CBAAC@computer.org>   Charlie Gibbs wrote: > A > In article <rVbVb1W3SGtF@elias.decus.ch> p_sture@elias.decus.che > (Paul Sture) writes: >  > [horror story snipped] > J > >My trials and tribulations brought me to the conclusion that concurrentJ > >web access was mandatory in order to get Linux up at the time I did it. > D > Without denying your tale of woe (shit happens, after all), let meG > reassure you and Barb that it isn't always that way.  A few years agoVH > I picked up a second-hand laptop (P133, 48MB memory, 1.3GB hard drive)H > and decided to make it my entry point into Linux.  I went to the localI > bookstore, scanned all their Linux books, and selected the book I likedoG > best.  It turned out to be by Patrick Volkerding et al, and came withnE > CDs for Slackware 3.5.  I popped the first CD into my laptop and ityG > booted right up - so I performed an exorcism on the hard drive (whose]G > final step consisted of peeling the "Designed for Windows 95" stickerlB > off the machine) and the installation ran pretty much painlesslyE > (except for a few sticky bits in the X configuration, which I often@= > don't use anyway).  It's a good solid little Linux box now.s > H > Although web access might be handy from time to time (I picked up someH > good X configuration tidbits from URLs in my book), just being able toG > access newsgroups gets you a long way.  Check out comp.os.linux.setupr- > and comp.os.linux.networking, for instance.r > D > On the other hand, my stock Win98 box is a piece of crap, crashing6 > and locking up all the time.  Your mileage may vary. > F > >Another point here is that of hardware which only works on Windows.I > >The dread "Winmodems" and cheapo network cards come to mind here. ManyiI > >budget PCs come with such devices for which the only drivers availableME > >are for Windows, so you then get into buying bits of hardware too.L > D > A modem is a little box with lights on it and a DB-25 connector onE > the back, and talks Hayes protocol.  (It also has a power switch souC > you can prevent sneaky programs or operating systems from dialing E > out when you're not looking.)  And you haven't even mentioned thosea > horrid "Winprinters"...  > : > >I hope this tale of woe doesn't put you off too much -) > B > Go for it, Barb!  There are lots of us here willing to help you. >   E Any of you look at Knoppix?  Someone gave a copy to me.  It fits on atH single CD-ROM, and boots from that CD!  I was shocked when I threw it in! my laptop and it booted right up.E   Sam    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.157 ************************