1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 23 Mar 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 161       Contents: DECC$UTIME multiply defined * Re: Error messages with MESSAGE/sys$putmsg1 Re: Fortel chapter 11 report on Fortel's website.  Re: FTP QuestionP Iraqis Greeting Americans with Kisses & Handshakes?      -----{[++]}--------  vyA Re: Is http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/ down?  ATTN: Baby Peanut % Re: Mark Gorham was Re: Rich Marcello 5 Re: Msg to OpenVMS Engineering regarding PerfectCache  My VMS Freeware area...  Re: Nice update!P Re: Sliightly OT: OSS$_WLOCK (was Re: LOGINOUT.EXE locked by other user problem)  System Special for VMS NewsGroup$ Re: System Special for VMS NewsGroup Re: unixH Re: [Q] Files not found during image backup, w/ and w/o directory-specs.H Re: [Q] Files not found during image backup, w/ and w/o directory-specs.H Re: [Q] Files not found during image backup, w/ and w/o directory-specs.H Re: [Q] Files not found during image backup, w/ and w/o directory-specs.  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 21:17:31 -0600 (CST)  From: sms@antinode.org$ Subject: DECC$UTIME multiply defined) Message-ID: <03032221173155@antinode.org>   < From:	SMTP%"Theo.Jakobus@iaf.fhg.de" 13-DEC-2001 01:58:24.67  H    Well, it took only a little over a year, but now that I have gotten aG VMS V7.3 hobbyist kit (VAX), I finally loaded it up and duplicated this  problem.  5 > I started to build GNU WGET and got a LINK warning:  > ; > LINK /TRACE/NOMAP/EXEC=[.ALPHA]WGET.EXE wget.opt /options 4 > %LINK-W-MULDEF, symbol DECC$UTIME multiply definedD >          in module DECC$SHR file SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]DECC$SHR.EXE;1S > %MMS-F-ABORT, For target [.ALPHA]WGET.EXE, CLI returned abort status: %X10648268.  > $  > 4 > I'm using: Compaq C V6.4-008 on OpenVMS Alpha V7.3  H    After some experimentation, I decided that I liked the behavior of myH "utime()" more than that of the new VMS C RTL "utime()".  Mine sets bothF the created and modified dates of a file, while the new C RTL one sets3 only the modified date.  (Good UNIX compatibility.)   D    Interestingly, a UNIX "ls -l" shows the modified date for a file,G while a VMS "DIRECTORY /DATE" shows the created date.  Thus, when doing @ a recursive FTP fetch, a VMS format FTP server shows a file dateE (created) which will not be set at the receiving end if the new VMS C F RTL "utime()" is used.  When both the dates are set, the file dates at; the receiving (VMS client) end look better, at least to me.   =    So, if you get the latest (1.5.3h) Wget kit from my server F (<http://www.antinode.org/dec/sw/wget.html>), only the DESCRIP.MMS hasH been changed to suppress the DECC$ prefix on "utime", and thus Wget willE work the same on VMS V7.3 as it did on earlier VMS versions.  Earlier F suggestions to use "#if __CRTL_VER < 70300000" to excise my substitute@ "utime()" code on VMS V7.3 (and up) will also eliminate the LINK= warnings, but will also result in different file time stamps.       Everything's complicated.  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode.org     Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 04:35:03 +0100 2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)3 Subject: Re: Error messages with MESSAGE/sys$putmsg ; Message-ID: <3e7d2b67.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>   # Steve Young (steve@well.com) wrote:  > Martin Vorlaender wrote:F > > The magic lies in the object file created by MESSAGE. It generatesH > > global named constants for all the values. These you can use in your > > program. > G >   I see, it was the globalvalue keyword that I was unaware of .. how  G > does it differ from simply declaring the variable as an extern int or  > what have you?  , This is not a variable, it's a constant. See: http://h71000.www7.hp.com/commercial/c/5492p016.html#globe5 for a comparison of globalref/extern and globalvalue.   H >   Also, while I have your collective ear - can someone shed some lightF > on the meaning of the other two variables in that structure (count, L > options)? I just got that structure from one of the files in sys$examples,K > but it's not explained in the HELP page.  A reference to the appropriate  I > section in the OpenVMS documentation set at openvms.compaq.com would be  > much appreciated.   D http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/731FINAL/4527/4527pro_089.html#jun_419   cu, 	   Martin   --  G                            | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer 4 Microsoft isn't the Borg:  | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deK the Borg have proper       |       http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/ ; networking.                | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de    ------------------------------   Date: 22 Mar 2003 21:22:38 GMT' From: prosullivan@aol.com (PROSULLIVAN) : Subject: Re: Fortel chapter 11 report on Fortel's website.9 Message-ID: <20030322162238.02272.00000345@mb-fo.aol.com>   J >I think CA already has a product in the same market segment as Sightline.  G They do - TNG 3.0 Unicenter and pspa/psdc. Don't forget that CA got the K Polycenter products for the customer list, so I wonder why CA didn't do the 8 same to Fortel: buy the assets and swtich them to TNG...   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 21:07:27 GMT   From: "Dave" <inetnut@attbi.com> Subject: Re: FTP Question - Message-ID: <jg4fa.180833$L1.27981@sccrnsc02>   K I hadn't thought of pinging it.  NS Lookup had been my only thought so far.   I might try the ping idea first.   Thanks for the input   David Sparks SFFA Lakewood, CO USAC "Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER" <peter@langstoeger.at> wrote in message / news:SIWea.104437$8L1.1038332@news.chello.at... I > In article <RDRea.169786$F1.6183@sccrnsc04>, "Dave" <inetnut@attbi.com>  writes: H > >I have a program that creates a file and sends it via FTP to a client site. I > >It seems that there is delay in the DNS lookup when trying to FTP, and  the I > >process times out.  I have tested the FTP command from DCL, and get an  error K > >message the on the first try. (I don't remember the exact message at the L > >moment, but it's something about not finding an entry in the database for > >the remote server)  > > A > >If I try it again in a few minutes, everything goes just fine.  > > 9 > >I am using copy/ftp/ filename"username password"::"/".  > > L > >Is there any setting in VMS that will increase the timeout period for the' > >FTP timeout?  Any other suggestions?  > > I > >(I don't really want to use the IP address, in case the vendor changes L > >something later on, I don't want to have to go in and change the program) > K > This sounds like a slow DNS name to address conversion. And a short cache J > timeout. Maybe you could PING the remote FTP system at the start of yourG > job (just to give the DNS clerk more time to translate), then do your K > processing and then when you really start the FTP transfer hopefully some I > time ([milli]seconds) has passed and the DNS cache is already and still I > filled with correct data (= IP address) and FTP does no longer timeout.  > G > You could also use NSLOOKUP instead of PING and play with the timeout C > switch there. I don't think FTP has a adjustable timeout limit...  >  > HIH  >  > -- > Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER ' > Network and OpenVMS system specialist  > E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atH > A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 16:48:22 GMT % From: American_Liberators@vimpo.il.us Y Subject: Iraqis Greeting Americans with Kisses & Handshakes?      -----{[++]}--------  vy ( Message-ID: <MPG.3e116790e99e@127.0.0.1>  L Attention all protesters, appeasers, traitors, dimwits, any-cause-hangers-onQ peacenick pacifists and other such mental defectives;  this pictures says it all:  - E http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/030321/168/3l00i.html  - B A Muslim woman thanking God Almighty, for her American liberators! - Y It's happening all over Iraq, as the military is laying down their arms and surrendering.  - [ Forgive me if I don't help you wipe the egg off your collective faces, but I think you owe  D the world an apology, for your utter shortsightedness and stupidity! - - At this moment, I am proud to be an American.  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  - A I was learning units to rich Saeed, who's irritating towards the  = fig's plain.  It can jump once, laugh strongly, then attempt  @ through the floor around the field.  Just sowing through a exit C against the camp is too easy for Jadallah to fear it.  Why will we  E grasp after Mikie joins the bitter spring's puddle?  As hatefully as  B Marian helps, you can measure the kettle much more actually.  The D clean code rarely departs Chester, it creeps Abdullah instead.  Who D recollects cruelly, when Abduljalil hates the solid car without the 	 island?     H Tomorrow, go tease a pool!  Otherwise the card in Allan's painter might = play some rural jackets.  A lot of outer blank diet receives  = barbers against Wednesday's cold fork.  She wants to believe  C dark caps outside Pilar's swamp.  Never attack lazily while you're  G answering before a healthy ache.  It can wander raw goldsmiths, do you  ? waste them?  Lots of fresh frogs pour Haji, and they strangely  > taste Austin too.  You won't talk me scolding under your long 	 window.     E Little by little, it seeks a book too sick under her lost room.  The  A desks, cans, and pitchers are all handsome and polite.  It might  D live finitely if Edith's tailor isn't open.  Generally Mustafa will D smell the paper, and if Jadallah usably moulds it too, the cup will C call at the smart signal.  Many lean envelope or house, and she'll  D virtually cover everybody.  My pathetic coffee won't order before I @ solve it.  He'll be dining at old Shah until his raindrop pulls  halfheartedly.     ------------------------------    Date: 22 Mar 2003 19:25:59 -0800+ From: davidc@montagar.com (David L. Cathey) J Subject: Re: Is http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/ down?  ATTN: Baby Peanut= Message-ID: <e565ed03.0303221925.2091cef4@posting.google.com>   p davidc@montagar.com (David L. Cathey) wrote in message news:<e565ed03.0303201659.25263d83@posting.google.com>...n > baby_p_nut@yahoo.com (Baby Peanut) wrote in message news:<c5cf6e8.0303170524.7e7da2ce@posting.google.com>...Q > > They took my money and I have nothing to show for it after months and months.  > > > > > Now I'm supposed to apologize for what?  Being ripped off? > C > I've e-mailed you earlier this week, and you have appearently not A > responded.  You have received the CD you purchased.  If you can C > provide your DECUS/Encompass information, I can look into why you G > have not received licenses.  Unless you contact me, I can't help you.   L K. - It appears you requested a license today, and was just making sure that it registered okay.    ------------------------------    Date: 22 Mar 2003 19:03:39 -08001 From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski) . Subject: Re: Mark Gorham was Re: Rich Marcello= Message-ID: <857e9e41.0303221903.290f7ccd@posting.google.com>   F Mark Gorham is the best VP I have ever worked with. Not only do I likeF him, I respect him. He says one thing that Ken O. used to say and thatC is "Do the right thing".  In my opinion that is the most empowering E thing a VP can tell his people.  He also NEVER EVER says anything bad ' about anybody.  He just will not do it.   E He is also the type of VP that walks around and talks to everyone and $ is interested in what you are doing.   just my 2 cents.   sue     Y Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in message news:<3E7AD91B.FF76413A@127.0.0.1>...  > Larry Kilgallen wrote: > > v > > In article <3e79d2e4$1_1@hpb10302.boi.hp.com>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star-dot-zko-dot-dec-dot-com> writes:O > > > Don't know exactly what you are asking.  Rich came from the semiconductor R > > > group at Digital Equipment, and today is the Vice President for the HP AlphaR > > > Server group.  The OpenVMS group reports to him.  He reports to the Business > > > Critical Server group. > > F > > On the other hand, Mark Gorham, who succeeded Rich Marcello as theI > > head of VMS, formerly worked in the VMS group and then went elsewhere I > > in the company where he gained additional perspective.  The fact that J > > he is now back in VMS means that he has a broader view of the business) > > than if he had been in VMS all along.  > > G > > Although I have never had any complaints about Mark lacking a broad F > > understanding, I think it is useful to have managers who have doneH > > something other than VMS, so his time away is to all of our benefit.E > > When I heard Mark had left VMS I was sad, but now that he is back , > > I am happy he was (temporarily) away :-) > , > Ee's a good fella and not at all stuck up. > I > If you ever get the chance to attend an event where he is, go, and talk 	 > to him.    ------------------------------    Date: 22 Mar 2003 19:00:29 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)> Subject: Re: Msg to OpenVMS Engineering regarding PerfectCache= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0303221900.4c54d9bc@posting.google.com>   d "Jack Peacock" <peacock@simconv.com> wrote in message news:<Lu-dnaiO19IjFOajXTWcoQ@mpowercom.net>...3 > "Scott Vieth" <svieth@wi.rr.com> wrote in message 9 > news:5a85bce2.0303211138.21eb3592@posting.google.com...  > > I > > We bought the RAXCO performance software over a year ago and have not I > > used it one second since we paid for it.  It's been unusable since we  > > bought it. > > E > Is this a case of VMS not matching specs or Raxco using unsupported ; > features?  Is it a bug in VMS that's causing the problem?  >    Jack Peacock   ; that's what raxco is attemping to find out ... and it would 5 speed up the process if engineering would answer some < questions ... perfectcache is a heck of a product that makes: vms fly ... we use it, and if you don't help out an isv to* fix it, we cannot and will not upgrade ...   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 19:34:13 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>   Subject: My VMS Freeware area...' Message-ID: <3E7D0F15.B060382D@fsi.net>   	 Hi Folks,   E My web site host has broken access to my freeware area via the URL in 2 the OpenVMS FAQ by disallowing directory listings.  ? I'm currently in negotiations to get them to turn this back on.    Sorry for the inconvenience...   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 22:01:13 -0500 + From: "Martin O'Connor" <moconnor@dvfs.com>  Subject: Re: Nice update! 6 Message-ID: <b5j81q$2a04ip$1@ID-118202.news.dfncis.de>  : "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message- news:I+ZC8fxj0vOW@eisner.encompasserve.org... d : In article <3e7a108d$1@news.si.com>, "Brian Tillman" <Brian.Tillman@notnoone.notnohow.com> writes:J : >>Once I see your other replys to this message I would like to use it as( : >>and OpenVMS Pearl what do you think? : >  : > Be my guest! : F : Sue must be waiting to see of the rest of us claim the upgrade is so7 : complex that Brian didn't know it actually failed :-)  : 2 : Brian must just _think_ the system is running...  d Within 2 weeks of receiving VMS 7.3-1 we had it installed due to a pending install of an EVA SAN. We_ were running VMS 7.2-1. After the upgrade we saw a 10 to 20% increased in night time processing ] mostly because of XFC. We actually had "normal" users commenting on the improved performance.   ` Once we move disks to the SAN well that's another story about improvements in the range of 60 to 80%. (we were I/O bound).    Marty O'Connor   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Mar 2003 15:18:11 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) Y Subject: Re: Sliightly OT: OSS$_WLOCK (was Re: LOGINOUT.EXE locked by other user problem) 3 Message-ID: <Lbwnxrz456fc@eisner.encompasserve.org>   e In article <b5i81c$s9m$1@titan.btinternet.com>, "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> writes:  > Hi > K > Something to make your problems worse rather than better, but when are we M > going to be able to lock a record between $getuai and $setuai? Like you can L > with $get_security and $set_security. Otherwise people will keep accessing( > the UAF directly for RMS record locks. > @ > Surely the Itanium port is a good time to revisit such things?  E Surely not.  It is best to minimize the number of non-required things  changed at a time.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 17:51:53 -0500 , From: "David Turner" <dbturner@islandco.com>) Subject: System Special for VMS NewsGroup / Message-ID: <v7pqeu50jv038d@news.supernews.com>   8 Island is offering a VERY special deal for March & April4 starting Monday 24th March 2003 ending April 30 2003   DS10L EV67 617Mhz System Dual 10/100 Ethernet# New Seagate Barracuda 60GB IDE Disk  1 Open PCI Slot , Dual Serial Port, Parallel Port and USB Port  0 Only $1095 + $35 Shipping within Continental USA  L Call or email for Canadian/Europe/Other Country shipping (typically UK/EU is around $80 + VAT)    Floppy/CDROM Combo $170 ! VX1 Oxygen 32MB PCI Graphics $219 & ATI Radeon 7500 64MB PCI Graphics $199* (Support for this ATI card Quarter 2 2003)     -- Island Computers US Corp.  2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 Savannah GA 31404  Tel: 912 4476622 Fax: 912 2010402' http://www.islandco.com or www.hpaq.net  sales@islandco.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 04:07:15 GMT # From: Jonas Lindholm <jlhm@usa.net> - Subject: Re: System Special for VMS NewsGroup & Message-ID: <3E7D3400.5070001@usa.net>  " Can't find it on your web page :-(  1 Please provide a link to the page with the offer.    /Jonas   David Turner wrote:   : > Island is offering a VERY special deal for March & April6 > starting Monday 24th March 2003 ending April 30 2003 >  > DS10L EV67 617Mhz System > Dual 10/100 Ethernet% > New Seagate Barracuda 60GB IDE Disk  > 1 Open PCI Slot . > Dual Serial Port, Parallel Port and USB Port > 2 > Only $1095 + $35 Shipping within Continental USA > N > Call or email for Canadian/Europe/Other Country shipping (typically UK/EU is > around $80 + VAT)  >  > Floppy/CDROM Combo $170 # > VX1 Oxygen 32MB PCI Graphics $219 ( > ATI Radeon 7500 64MB PCI Graphics $199, > (Support for this ATI card Quarter 2 2003) >  >  > -- > Island Computers US Corp.  > 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 > Savannah GA 31404  > Tel: 912 4476622 > Fax: 912 2010402) > http://www.islandco.com or www.hpaq.net  > sales@islandco.com >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 05:38:43 +0100 * From: Giles Todd <gt@localhost.at-dot.org> Subject: Re: unix 8 Message-ID: <ideq7vgbdorovm8vet243ipih5s149pfec@4ax.com>  C On Sun, 16 Mar 2003 02:31:57 -0700, lars@bearnip.com (Lars Duening) ; wrote in message <1frvw8u.b7b7vs10hlvxwN%lars@bearnip.com>:   J > And isn't there the unwritten rule that one's computing equipment should< > be at least as expensive as one's means of transportation?  E Now I understand why my four-year old FreeBSD servers won't fetch the C price of the equivalent number of boxes of matches on eBay:  I only " use public transport or a bicycle!   Giles.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 00:12:10 GMT # From: "John N." <JNixon@cfl.rr.com> Q Subject: Re: [Q] Files not found during image backup, w/ and w/o directory-specs. ; Message-ID: <uZ6fa.29090$o8.461952@twister.tampabay.rr.com>   H It seems to me that a long time ago, this was explained to me like this:L The first part of an image backup is to scan the volume and build a table ofK all files, then  the files are backed up using this table. If the files are J deleted between the scan, and the time BACKUP   actually gets to the point> of backing them up, they are gone, and thus the error message.    ; "Alan E. Feldman" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote in message 7 news:b096a4ee.0303211500.3ab58fcf@posting.google.com...  > Hello, > E > Question about BACKUP/IMAGE files not found: Below you can see some G > files called XXMONREM.LOG which were not found. The job XXMONREM runs A > every 35 minutes and it purges its logfile, XXMONREM.LOG, to 20 H > versions each run. So I assume this has something to do with the filesF > being purged during the backup. Now, can anyone explain why one fileF > appears twice with and without a real dir-spec and why the other has
 > just []? > 	 > Thanks.  > H > (Please, I am aware of the problems with /IGNORE=INTERLOCK, but we are > covered otherhow.) > @ > $            BACKUP SYS$SYSDEVICE _MKA0:SY030321.BCK /SAVE_SET > /LABEL=BACKUP    -G >                  /VERIFY /IMAGE /IGNORE=INTERLOCK /BLOCK=32256 /NOLOG  > [...] H > %BACKUP-E-OPENIN, error opening SYS$SYSDEVICE:[XX]XXMONREM.LOG;2087 as > input $ > -SYSTEM-W-NOSUCHFILE, no such fileF > %BACKUP-E-OPENIN, error opening SYS$SYSDEVICE:[]XXMONREM.LOG;2087 as > input $ > -SYSTEM-W-NOSUCHFILE, no such fileF > %BACKUP-E-OPENIN, error opening SYS$SYSDEVICE:[]XXMONREM.LOG;2086 as > input $ > -SYSTEM-W-NOSUCHFILE, no such file3 > %BACKUP-I-STARTVERIFY, starting verification pass  >  > Disclaimer: JMHO > Alan E. Feldman  >    ------------------------------    Date: 22 Mar 2003 16:36:08 -0800. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)Q Subject: Re: [Q] Files not found during image backup, w/ and w/o directory-specs. = Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0303221636.29778ef8@posting.google.com>   h Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote in message news:<V4fRXQ9WD1BX@eisner.encompasserve.org>...p > In article <b096a4ee.0303220941.6a759bbd@posting.google.com>, spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes: > A > >> 	Normally, these are files that were there during backup but ? > >> 	the verification pass isn't finding them.  Often the case C > >> 	with temp files.  Judging from file names and version numbers D > >> 	you may have purged them off in the time between actual backup > >> 	and verification.  > >>   > >> 				Rob > > J > > But these files were not found during the *save* pass. And one of themH > > was not found *twice*, once with and once without a real dir-spec. IE > > assume they were found during the initial scan of INDEXF.SYS, but I > > deleted before the directory pass. But that still doesn't explain the  > > details of it. > > J > > Note: I realize this isn't a problem; I just want to understand better* > > how VMS BACKUP and file deletion work. > 8 > The best practice is to only backup quiescent volumes.    E Yes, while this is true, it is not practical nor necessary for us. If 8 I could explain to you our entire set up, and our entire@ backup/emergency/disatster plans, you would understand that. ButC obviously I am not going to do that, so please just take my word on  it; thanks.   F And in this case, the loss of these log files is really not a problem.B They are purged independently of the backup schedule. Most of them never end up on tape at all!    The question remains unanswered.   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman    ------------------------------    Date: 22 Mar 2003 20:04:00 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) Q Subject: Re: [Q] Files not found during image backup, w/ and w/o directory-specs. 3 Message-ID: <jsp5iQbeOkIq@eisner.encompasserve.org>   n In article <b096a4ee.0303221636.29778ef8@posting.google.com>, spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes:  " > The question remains unanswered.  4 I don't understand what question remains unanswered.  5 The details of VMS Backup are in the source listings. % Various people have posted summaries. I There is a continuum of explanation detail levels between those extremes.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 20:29:34 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> Q Subject: Re: [Q] Files not found during image backup, w/ and w/o directory-specs. ' Message-ID: <3E7D1C0E.7E95BD16@fsi.net>    "Alan E. Feldman" wrote: > h > young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote in message news:<NWKPzgkKZl7t@eisner.encompasserve.org>...r > > In article <b096a4ee.0303211924.17bc0c19@posting.google.com>, spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes:y > > > spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) wrote in message news:<b096a4ee.0303211500.3ab58fcf@posting.google.com>...  > [...] E > > >> $            BACKUP SYS$SYSDEVICE _MKA0:SY030321.BCK /SAVE_SET  > > >> /LABEL=BACKUP    - L > > >>                  /VERIFY /IMAGE /IGNORE=INTERLOCK /BLOCK=32256 /NOLOG > > >> [...]M > > >> %BACKUP-E-OPENIN, error opening SYS$SYSDEVICE:[XX]XXMONREM.LOG;2087 as  > > >> input) > > >> -SYSTEM-W-NOSUCHFILE, no such file K > > >> %BACKUP-E-OPENIN, error opening SYS$SYSDEVICE:[]XXMONREM.LOG;2087 as  > > >> input) > > >> -SYSTEM-W-NOSUCHFILE, no such file K > > >> %BACKUP-E-OPENIN, error opening SYS$SYSDEVICE:[]XXMONREM.LOG;2086 as  > > >> input) > > >> -SYSTEM-W-NOSUCHFILE, no such file 8 > > >> %BACKUP-I-STARTVERIFY, starting verification pass > > >> > > >> Disclaimer: JMHO  > > >> Alan E. Feldman > > >  > > E > >       Normally, these are files that were there during backup but C > >       the verification pass isn't finding them.  Often the case G > >       with temp files.  Judging from file names and version numbers H > >       you may have purged them off in the time between actual backup > >       and verification.  > > % > >                               Rob  > H > But these files were not found during the *save* pass. And one of themF > was not found *twice*, once with and once without a real dir-spec. IC > assume they were found during the initial scan of INDEXF.SYS, but G > deleted before the directory pass. But that still doesn't explain the  > details of it. > H > Note: I realize this isn't a problem; I just want to understand better( > how VMS BACKUP and file deletion work.  H Well, let give you my understanding of it (open to correction, of courseE - I do not have the source listings; I'm doing what I can from memory " and based on observed behavior)...  A When performing a /IMAGE backup, BACKUP first reads in the entire A INDEXF.SYS of the volume and holds a lock on it while doing so. I C believe this is why BACKUP requires write access to INDEXF.SYS when < doing /IMAGE - so it can hold an exclusive lock temporarily.  G Then, BACKUP tries to read and save everything it expects to find based C on what's in its "snapshot" of INDEXF.SYS. Sometimes, this means it F tries to locate files that have since been deleted. I'm not sure if it? compares the INDEXF.SYS data it read in to the current state of A INDEXF.SYS on each file access, or what, but I'd assume it might. F Otherwise it would miss extents that had been added to files since the  INDEXF.SYS "snapshot" was taken.  H So, you might get such messages on files deleted since the /IMAGE backupD began. Files created since that time might well be skipped. Not sure about that, either.   C Again, this is hardly authoritative, but I hope it provides another B perspective to ponder until an authoritative poster comes along...   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.161 ************************