1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 31 Mar 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 178       Contents: Re: 7.3-1 and EXBYTLIM3 Re: An opportunity for HP? (wes: Micromedex on VMS) 3 Re: An opportunity for HP? (wes: Micromedex on VMS) 3 Re: An opportunity for HP? (wes: Micromedex on VMS) 3 Re: An opportunity for HP? (wes: Micromedex on VMS) * Re: Cluster, half in the DMZ, half outside Re: Conference On Clustering Re: COV Sponsors Re: COV Sponsors Re: COV Sponsors Re: COV Sponsors Re: COV Sponsors Re: COV Sponsors Re: COV Sponsors- Re: Current LRDRIVER.C source?  (X-3 v. X-10)  Re: Default Gateway  Re: Default Gateway ' Re: Earth to Andrew, do you get it now? ' Re: Earth to Andrew, do you get it now? ' Re: Earth to Andrew, do you get it now? ' Re: Earth to Andrew, do you get it now? ' Re: Earth to Andrew, do you get it now? ' Re: Earth to Andrew, do you get it now? ' Re: Earth to Andrew, do you get it now? ' Re: Earth to Andrew, do you get it now? ' Re: Earth to Andrew, do you get it now?  Exporting users? RE: Exporting users? RE: Exporting users? Failed to get boot flags?  Re: Failed to get boot flags?  Re: Failed to get boot flags?  Re: Failed to get boot flags?  Re: Fortran Guru requested Re: Fortran Guru requested Re: Fortran Guru requested Re: Fortran Guru requested Re: Fortran Guru requested Re: Fortran Guru requested Re: Fortran Guru requested Re: Fortran Guru requested Re: Fortran Guru requested Re: Fortran Guru requested Re: Fortran Guru requested Re: Fortran Guru requested Re: Fortran Guru requested Re: Fortran Guru requested Re: Fortran Guru requested+ Freeware/Decus CD Search Engine is alive... " Re: Gotta have those ol' time docs Re: High RMS file activity Re: High RMS file activity3 Re: Hoff, what is the status of your book ? (Again)  hsz40 to ba35x cable, Re: LCD panel, 500au, ELSA Gloria Card, How?. RE: Legato vs TSM for VMS backup pros and cons Re: Macs vs. Pathworks et. al. My Email MySQL on OpenVMS?  Re: MySQL on OpenVMS?  Re: OPCOM debugging  Re: OPCOM debugging  Re: OPCOM debugging  OpenVMS Pearl March 31P Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marveland Alpha RetaiP RE: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marveland Alpha RetaiP Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marveland Alpha RetaiP Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marveland Alpha RetaiP Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marveland Alpha Retai Re: Overuse of LIB$SPAWN?  Re: Overuse of LIB$SPAWN? , Poka Yoke on loppy drive flat cable is wrong/ Re: RMS Tune Check (was High RMS file activity) / Re: RMS Tune Check (was High RMS file activity) & Re: SET NOTRUNCATE - Command reference3 Re: SIMH Emulation of VAX KA650-A, KA650-B, KA655-A 3 Re: SIMH Emulation of VAX KA650-A, KA650-B, KA655-A J Re: Slowest ALpha ever (was: Re: LCD panel, 500au, ELSA Gloria Card, How?)P Re: Slowest ALpha ever (was: Re: LCD panel, 500au, ELSA Gloria Card, How?) How?)2 Re: Space Invaders was: Re: Fortran Guru requested* Re: Structure of  the TCPIP Services group* Re: Structure of  the TCPIP Services group Re: Suggestion to Sue  Re: Suggestion to Sue & Re: Sun unix/linux new nasty bug cert!D Re: SYSTARTUP_VMS (was: Three questions re: the VMS startup process)D Re: SYSTARTUP_VMS (was: Three questions re: the VMS startup process)D Re: SYSTARTUP_VMS (was: Three questions re: the VMS startup process)D Re: SYSTARTUP_VMS (was: Three questions re: the VMS startup process)D Re: SYSTARTUP_VMS (was: Three questions re: the VMS startup process)& Re: TCPIP Services and IP masquerading& Re: TCPIP Services and IP masquerading& Re: TCPIP Services and IP masquerading& Re: TCPIP Services and IP masquerading  Re: VAX XDM, help needed please!  Re: VAX XDM, help needed please! VMS isn't even a choice 7 Re: VMS Software Product & Online Documentation Library  Re: VMS Upgrade Questions 1 Re: [MOZILLA V1.3] Compatibility with JAVA V1.4 ? 1 Re: [MOZILLA V1.3] Compatibility with JAVA V1.4 ? 1 Re: [MOZILLA V1.3] Compatibility with JAVA V1.4 ? 1 Re: [MOZILLA V1.3] Compatibility with JAVA V1.4 ?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 16:56:38 +0000 (UTC) + From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb)  Subject: Re: 7.3-1 and EXBYTLIM + Message-ID: <b69s06$ei4$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>   W In article <1030330203045.416D-100000@Ives.egh.com>, John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> writes: ' >On Sun, 30 Mar 2003, David Webb wrote:  > Z >> In article <1030329002915.416F-100000@Ives.egh.com>, John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> writes:, >> >On Fri, 28 Mar 2003, Paul Webster wrote: >> >K >> >> I have an application (but no source code) that works on VMS 7.1 (and * >> >> I think 7.2) but is failing on 7.3-1 >> >> A >> >> The failure is %SYSTEM-F-EXBYTLM, exceeded byte count quota  >> >>  >>  I >> >Completely different thing that has worked fine for years, but is now + >> >dying on VMS 7.3-1 with the same error.  >> >C >> >TCPWare IP-over-DECnet line to a remote site.  The local end is H >> >an AlphaServer 1200 running VMS V7.3-1 (upgraded from V7.2-1 TuesdayD >> >night), DECnet-Plus, TCPware 5.6-2.  Remote end is VAX VMS V7.1,$ >> >DECnet-Plus V7.1, TCPware 5.3-3. >> > >>  P >> I thought TCPware's Decnet over IP  only worked with DECNET Phase IV not with >> DECNet-Plus / PHASE V. L >> I tried to load it on an Alpha recently with PHASE V on it and got a loadA >> of errors about not being able to create the line and circuit.  > ? >You may be correct, but this is irrelevent.  I'm talking about $ >IP-over-DECnet, not DECnet-over-IP. >   O OK. Sorry but I'd never heard of IP-over-DECNET. Find it difficult to imagine a N situation where you would have DECNET links but not be allowed to have native K IP links (especially since from the above it sounds as if both ends have to  have a TCPWARE IP stack).       A >We are now using Ph V everywhere, and use its IP transport layer : >(TPCONS) to do DECnet to sites with only IP connectivity. >  >>    
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   >  >--  >John Santos >Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc.  >781-861-0670 ext 539  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 11:36:56 +0100 ' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy < Subject: Re: An opportunity for HP? (wes: Micromedex on VMS). Message-ID: <3E881A48.6070705@nospamn.sun.com>   Rob Young wrote:Z > In article <3E8338E3.6010808@nospamn.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy writes: >  > E >>Its going to have to since Cerners product strategy will eventually ? >>result in no support for OpenVMS assuming a wholesale move to  >>DB2. >> >  > C > 	That would be a risky gambit in many ways.  Currently, there are C > 	3 core DBMS technologies in HealthCare.  Oracle , Microsoft SQL, E > 	and Cache.  Several institutions have a bear of a time finding the D > 	Oracle and Cache people.  Having them to hunt down folks familiarD > 	with DB2 would be very unpopular no matter how you slice and dice > 	it. >   > It may be a risky strategy but that is what Cerner are doing ?      C > 	Tell them they have to convert from Oracle to DB2 and they would  > 	run screaming from the room.  >   C Cerner provide packaged solutions, most of their customers probably  don't care.    Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 11:40:34 +0100 ' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy < Subject: Re: An opportunity for HP? (wes: Micromedex on VMS). Message-ID: <3E881B22.3080805@nospamn.sun.com>   jlsue wrote:G > On Thu, 27 Mar 2003 17:46:11 +0000, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy 0 > <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote: >  >  >> >>David J. Dachtera wrote: >> >>>Keith Parris wrote: >> > I >>>>"Today Cerner serves some 1,500 clients, 80% of whom run their Cerner : >>>>applications on HP OpenVMS AlphaServer technology." --A >>>>http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/brochures/cerner/cerner.pdf  >>>  >>> H >>>Hhmmm... I wonder what it would take to get Cerner to put that in the5 >>>Wall Street Journal as a full-page or two-page ad?  >>>  >>< >>I am not sure what the point would be, Cerner have already@ >>entered an agreement with IBM to develop their next generation? >>of products using a DBMS that doesn't run on OpenVMS. If they 1 >>drop Oracle then OpenVMS is dead as a platform.  >  > B > Why do you propose that they are dropping Oracle?  Is there some2 > evidence that they'd leave a long-time platform? >   0 I am not proposing that they drop Oracle, Cerner7 have selected WebSphere and DB2 from IBM for developing ; their next generation solutions, or at least thats what the  Cerner web site says.   7 Apart from that there is no evidence whatsoever none at / all that they'd leave their long-term platform.    regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 11:42:03 +0100 ' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy < Subject: Re: An opportunity for HP? (wes: Micromedex on VMS). Message-ID: <3E881B7B.7020100@nospamn.sun.com>  
 JustMe wrote: M > Quite amazing that Mr. Harrison is always so self-assured (read "arrogant") I > I wonder how he'll spin it when Sun ultimately hits the dust-bin (which ) > might just be sooner rather than later)  >  >   3 Perhaps it because I am responding to Bob, trust me * Bob makes almost anyone look self assured.     regards  Andrew Harrison   7 > "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message 9 > news:d7791aa1.0303271724.7cc10236@posting.google.com... K > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> ; > wrote in message news:<3E818956.40404@nospamn.sun.com>...  >  >>>>> K >>>>>IBM has been waffling lately as to whether AIX will survive long-term, D >>>>>given the popularity of Linux.  In contrast, VMS has the strong> >>>>>support of HP, and a long-term path laid out ahead of it. >>>>> H >>>>>And since 80% of Cerner customers use VMS compared with 20% at mostH >>>>>for AIX, I think it is the AIX back-end which is arguably much less >>>>>viable. >>>>> J >>>>>"Today Cerner serves some 1,500 clients, 80% of whom run their Cerner; >>>>>applications on HP OpenVMS AlphaServer technology." -- B >>>>>http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/brochures/cerner/cerner.pdf >>>>9 >>>>However IBM are supplying Cerner with the development < >>>>and deployment software platform for their new products. >>>>; >>>>WebSphere and DB2, and this is a huge threat to OpenVMS 7 >>>>if it is as people suggest the largest platform for  >>>>Cerner currently.  >>>> >>>>Regards  >>>>Andrew Harrison  >>>  >>> E >>>are you kidding me?  IBM sells garbage just like you do at sun ... C >>>IBM has no solution that even comes close to OpenVMS clustering, D >>>security, and uptime ... I am still waiting for them to call backB >>>and tell me why the AS400 I worked on 9 years ago crashed twiceC >>>in one month ... I have been on VMS 18 years now around that one C >>>month nightmare stint on convuluted menu city OS400 and have yet A >>>to have "ONE" VMS os crash ... IBM is what sun is ... GARBAGE!  >>; >>Bob it doesn't matter you may think about the reliability 8 >>or security of other non OpenVMS platforms if they are7 >>the ones that can run the applications and OpenVMS is  >>the one that cannot. >>5 >>Its nice to see that you are still as articulate as 6 >>ever keep it up, an archive of your postings sent to4 >>an IT manager considering OpenVMS or anything else7 >>would be a powerfull sales tool for the people trying ! >>to sell the non OpenVMS system.  >>	 >>Regards  >>Andrew Harrison  >  > A > VMS can run any app that any garbage unix/linux box can, and it ? > can run it SECURELY ... apache is one good example ... as for B > my posts such as working on vms for 18+ years now w/o a os crash? > I don't think anyone can come close to that ... but you don't A > need my posts to sell vms, just look at the last 13 years worth D > of cert advisories ... 10 for vms, 580+ and counting for slowaris,C > even more for linux, and windoze, well I think even cert has lost 9 > track of the count ... VMS record stands for itself ...  >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 15:14:18 GMT & From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net>< Subject: Re: An opportunity for HP? (wes: Micromedex on VMS)8 Message-ID: <nfjg8v4bmujb77udueld51ssprtmr5lves@4ax.com>  E On Mon, 31 Mar 2003 11:42:03 +0100, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy . <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote:   >  >  >JustMe wrote:N >> Quite amazing that Mr. Harrison is always so self-assured (read "arrogant")J >> I wonder how he'll spin it when Sun ultimately hits the dust-bin (which* >> might just be sooner rather than later) >>   >>   > 4 >Perhaps it because I am responding to Bob, trust me+ >Bob makes almost anyone look self assured.  >  >    Touche.    ;-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 15:42:16 +0200 ) From: Bart Zorn <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl> 3 Subject: Re: Cluster, half in the DMZ, half outside 6 Message-ID: <3e8845b9$0$49117$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>   Carl Karcher wrote: S > In a previous article, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote:  > ..E > ->What you are discussing is a cluster alias implemented in the DNS I > ->server.  This is something completely different.  Here, one can just  J > ->have more than 1 IP address and have round robin.  More sophisticated M > ->schemes due load balancing etc.  On VMS, this is the load broker, metric  @ > ->server etc which one can enable in SYS$MANAGER:TCPIP$CONFIG. > J > As of TCPIP V5.3 (bind 9) it's no longer round robin but random. See the > release notes.  % This the text from the release notes:   D "The round-robin scheduling of the BIND server has been changed. In A previous versions of the BIND server, when multiple records were  D returned in an answer, they would get placed into the response in a F round-robin manner for each consecutive request. With this version, a C random round-robin ordering is used. The BIND server will randomly  I choose a starting point within the RRset and return the records in order  A starting at that point. There is currently no way to modify this  = behavior. The TCPIP$BIND_ROUND_ROBIN_OFF logical is ignored."   F To me, this does not mean that there is no round-robin scheduling. It E only says that the starting point is chosen at random, but that from  . that point, the records are returned in order.  I It is, however, not clear to me what the intention is behind this change.    Regards,  	 Bart Zorn    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 11:26:09 +0100 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>% Subject: Re: Conference On Clustering ) Message-ID: <3E8817C1.51842B94@127.0.0.1>    Bill Todd wrote: > 7 > "Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in message  ... K > > In reality I'm probably going to be slightly more tactful, in order not I > > to be accused of being a XYZ product basher, I'll say what it can and C > > can't do, and allow the listener to draw their own conclusions.  > L > Just be sure that you *know* what other clusters can and can't do.  One toL > be especially careful to understand is AIX clustering (and its distributedN > GPFS file system).  Another is the Veritas clustering product suite.  And ofI > course be sure to be up to date on the newest clustering mechanisms Sun 	 > offers.  > . > > Apart from that you're more or less right! > M > No, he isn't:  there are several Unix-style clustering implementations that J > offer approximate functional equivalence to VMS's facilities (even DLMs:K > Tru64 acquired one recently, and AIX has had one for about a decade - and L > donated it to Linux a couple of years ago), though usually with a bit moreN > set-up folderol and with fail-over times that tend to be measured in tens ofM > seconds rather than seconds.  Now that you've been notified, perhaps you've E > got some studying to do if you don't want to run afoul of the trade  > descriptions act.   H I have actually looked in some detail at most (all?) other systems. ThisG is where the VMS crowd take a sharp intake of breath, because VMS could H probably take a lesson or two from some of the other systems around. TheC well documented limitations have found some ingenious ways to solve E those common limitations. Having said that, VMS offers to my mind the > greatest versatility, due to the mixed versioning and multipleG concurrent interconnection. It is also reasonably tolerant of being set B up *incorrectly*, so maybe those lessons should remain 'unlearnt'.  ? Some techniques, arguably called clustering have no need of DLM G technologies in the form you or I would understand them, and in essence F allow a wider tolerance than VMS could. As you say, it's a question ofF function equivalence, and interestingly (and perhaps predictably), theE boundary at which that occurs varies greatly between "function" level  and the processor(s) level.   C To argue there are "better" cluster technologies than VMS is a moot D point, it really is a case of match what you want (service delivery)E from a computer provided service to the environment it will be placed F in, and the depth of your pockets. In reality there are probably quiteH few who are getting everything from what a VMS cluster can deliver. WhenD used properly, I'm not aware of any other operating systems that canD allow for complete hardware upgrade (including physical disks) and a; change from 32 bit to 64 bit (and upgrades of both software C environments) while maintaining a real 100% over as many years than C Microsoft has allegedly been producing operating systems, and still  counting...   B Well OK, maybe there is one other, but that's left as an exercise.  E In summary on the UNIXen side, I've covered all the major brands, but G the deeper you go, the more proprietary the solution goes, meaning that C your "open" world starts closing off pretty rapidly, with fewer and D fewer of those "1000's" of applications which will work they way youD want them to in that environment. (Having said that, the breadth is,! over time, generally increasing).   B I'm not saying here I know *everything* there is to know, but I've@ benefited from personal experience, and also the kind sharing ofH experiences from others, that have implemented, supported, bent, broken,H and had to force to work, a multitude of systems. Like you Bill, I enjoy* technology and try to take the wider view. --  ? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 02:41:16 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> Subject: Re: COV Sponsors / Message-ID: <3E87E2D6.81135062@vl.videotron.ca>    David Froble wrote: Q > Gee, sounds complicated, and expensive.  In addition, many here would call it a Q > 'downward' migration.  Other than DEC's stupidity in the past, why would anyone % > want to engage in such an activity?   M In the days when VMS was king, yes, it was easy to look down on IBM and claim  such superiority.   I But since then, IBM has changed to become more open, more agressive, less E "branwashing of customers", while Digital/Compaq/HP have declared VMS D unmarketable, essentially in maintenance mode to keep attrition to a comfortable level.  K Even if IBM's offering may be technologically inferior for OS software, the L fact remains that IBM's platform (Power) has a brighter , more serure futureK than HP's future platform (IA64). The fact remains that IBM's commitment to R its products is solid and credible. HP's commitments to VMS/Alpha is not credible.  N And more importantly, ISVs trust the IBM platforms, whereas they don't want toJ risk developping/targetting VMS platforms because its future is uncertain.  L So, when you look for your business to do tasks A B and C, if IBM does thoseM well *enough*, while VMS can do A and B muich better but lacks C (which means M you need to write your own, or use another platfor for C), then IBM becomes a  better option.  N I have worked in a pre-Gerstner IBM shop and despised IBM while respecting theH quality of its support compared to the shit I got from the local DigitalJ office. I have seen IBM change dramatically in mentality in the mid 1990s.  N I now have much much more respect for IBM. And if I had to make a proposal forK some solution to a potential customer, I feel strongly that I would have no L chance to win if I pitched a VMS solution, whereas I would have much greater. chance of winning by pitching an IBM solution.  K You know, during my stint at that bank, the IBM rep came to see *ME* (I was M supporting a VMS system) more often than the DEC salesmen who would only show M up if one made a big deal about it. That IBm rep had more respect for me than  the DEC salesperson.    ; VMS technical superiority under Alpha isn't enough anymore.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 17:48:20 +1000 1 From: Paddy O'Brien <paddy.o'brien@tg.nsw.gov.au>  Subject: Re: COV Sponsors , Message-ID: <3E87F2C4.1040506@tg.nsw.gov.au>   David Froble wrote:  > Jon Power wrote: > $ >> Well David, My name is Jon Power. >  >  >  > <snip> > : >> When we finish a project plan for an OpenVMS to UNIX/NTH >> project we have a project plan with between 3000 and 10000 individual >> line items. >  >  > H > Gee, sounds complicated, and expensive.  In addition, many here would K > call it a 'downward' migration.  Other than DEC's stupidity in the past,  6 > why would anyone want to engage in such an activity? > I Agreed, David.  Jon, what exactly is a "line item".  Change paddy.com to  1 a Perl script with bucks on every line of my DCL?      >> ( we have been doing OpenVMS E >> migration since 1988 so we have a few hundred projects to draw our  >> metrics from).  >  >  > K > Same question, what reasons did people give for this expensive, complex,   > downward migration?  >  > H I am an application programmer.  What worries me is that we may have to H migrate (company policy of kowtowing to his Gateship).  A new platform, C different usage of programming registers, do you have expertise in  D regression testing my engineering applications?  I know that slight H differences in an integration algorithm make result changes that I have C to justify to our engineers.  Migration is not just a "line item",   whatever that may be.   I >> We are being inundated with OpenVMS to UNIX migrations from every part E >> of the globe. Thanks for taking the time to read this posting. Jon  >> Power >  > I There are a lot of pointed headed managers without knowledge of what the  H plebs are trying to do to keep their company going:  exactly what David  says below.   & > Same people that are buying bridges? >  > I > Dave, who is doing a VMS to windoz project, and knows for certain that  K > the customer has no idea of what they are doing, but is willing to spend  H > big bucks, and is NOT willing to listen.  Give you best opinion, then  > take the money and run!  >  >  Regards, Paddy      G ***********************************************************************   C "This electronic message and any attachments may contain privileged > and confidential information intended only for the use of the B addressees named above.  If you are not the intended recipient of C this email, please delete the message and any attachment and advise B the sender.  You are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, 7 distribution, reproduction of this email is prohibited.   A If you have received the email in error, please notify TransGrid  A immediately.  Any views expressed in this email are those of the  = individual sender except where the sender expressly and with  C authority states them to be the views of TransGrid.  TransGrid uses > virus scanning software but excludes any liability for viruses contained in any attachment.  < Please note the email address for TransGrid personnel is now$ firstname.lastname@transgrid.com.au"  G ***********************************************************************    ------------------------------    Date: 31 Mar 2003 04:18:54 -0800( From: qwqwqwqw70@hotmail.com (Jon Power) Subject: Re: COV Sponsors = Message-ID: <71367ac8.0303310418.7c432867@posting.google.com>   B Thanks for making it clear that Sue is one of the VMS ambassadors.  D I also want to make it clear that I also happen to have huge respectC for OpenVMS, having writen most of the VMS API's for UNIX myself, I C have enormous respect for the thought and design and LOVE that went 
 into OpenVMS.   F In a perfect world OpenVMS would reign supreme, however, unfortunately= technology along does not establish market place superiority.   B We also support growing number of OpenVMS systems from an admin to? programming support model. We offer on site and remote support.   C The demise of OpenVMS is indicated by the reducing numbers of third D party packages that are made available. Every time an ISV decides toE no longer support their products on OpenVMS our phones start ringing.   C The success of OpenVMS on Itanium will be determined by a number of D factors: (1) What ISV's will comit to migrating and supporting theirD apps on Itanium and (2) If an organization is faced with yet anotherB migration (ALPHA to Itanium) will they just decide to throw in the" towel and get onto an open system.  ? LINUX is definitely quickening the exodus. If they are going to C migrate, then they would rather look at LINUX for their non mission A critical apps, ands the large midrange servers for apps requiring  clustering and HA.  C As I mentioned on the FreeVMS site before I was banned, much of the B impetus to leave OpenVMS is that the cost of supporting OpenVMS isF increasing and the ability to find OpenVMS support staff is dwindling.  < Many coporations are seriously concerned about their ongoing- capability of staffing their OpenVMS systems.   = Migrating OpenVMS application is now only a small part of our F business. We are now heavily into massive server consolidation coupledB with IBM's vision for 'on demand computing' (only pay for what you need when you need it).   ? However, in almost every situation where we win the business to E consolidate 300 or 400 servers - we always get asked "can you help us E with that VMS system over there that we can not consolidate and costs D us more and more to keep going each year. (Same with HP MPE, Unisys,! Honeywell even some odd PDP-11's)    ------------------------------    Date: 31 Mar 2003 05:02:46 -0800( From: qwqwqwqw70@hotmail.com (Jon Power) Subject: Re: COV Sponsors = Message-ID: <71367ac8.0303310502.3eb41b42@posting.google.com>   C JF Mezei <snip> "VMS technical superiority under Alpha isn't enough  anymore"   Jon Power:    F Mr Mezei wrote an excellent post and echo's what I have seen myself in
 the industry.   D My background writing operating systems and compiler and other super! low level stuff (real computing).   D Now, with what I see in the undustry, I belief that not only has theF various flavors of UNIX caught up with VMS but they have surpassed it.  A The big item used to be clustering, but : all UNIX os derivatives C cluster now. not only that but because the clustering model is from < Oracle (adopted from OpenVMS) its concistent across all unix
 platforms.  F Async IO (QIO) is replaced with thread based I/O server models .. much2 easier to work on / debug etc etc .. and portable.  D The presentation layer is almost exclusively PC based -- which meansB client GUI taking to server based applications (either directly or HTLM/Java web based)  C So, what is it exactly that OpenVMS hasd to offer that UNIX/NT does @ not ? (dont flood me with NT BS - Im not a beliver in NT either)  B SO, if yo ask yourself - what is an application -- some sever codeC (Java/C/C++/COBOL) transport layer (weblogic, websphere, mq series, F tuxedo), database server (Oracle DB2) and a diplay device -- then what/ technical superiority does OpenVMS have ???????   C Does it come down to a bunch of cryptic SYS$, LIB$, OTS$ calls ?? - 4 certainly Dec FORMS, FS, TDMS. SMG srent mainstream.   /Jon   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Mar 2003 15:05:12 -00004 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> Subject: Re: COV Sponsors 5 Message-ID: <20030331150512.7106.qmail@gacracker.org>   9 On 31 Mar 2003, qwqwqwqw70@hotmail.com (Jon Power) wrote: D >JF Mezei <snip> "VMS technical superiority under Alpha isn't enough	 >anymore"  >  >Jon Power:  > G >Mr Mezei wrote an excellent post and echo's what I have seen myself in  >the industry. > E >My background writing operating systems and compiler and other super " >low level stuff (real computing). > E >Now, with what I see in the undustry, I belief that not only has the G >various flavors of UNIX caught up with VMS but they have surpassed it.   + Round these parts that's fighting talk. ;-)    .. Or flamebait.   <snip>  E >The presentation layer is almost exclusively PC based -- which means C >client GUI taking to server based applications (either directly or  >HTLM/Java web based)   D >So, what is it exactly that OpenVMS hasd to offer that UNIX/NT doesA >not ? (dont flood me with NT BS - Im not a beliver in NT either)   J I'm using a PC to compose this. Your argument appears to be based on thereH being no significant difference between a Unix or VMS backend. I believeI the area where the operating system is becoming less relevant is actually  on the desktop.   C >SO, if yo ask yourself - what is an application -- some sever code D >(Java/C/C++/COBOL) transport layer (weblogic, websphere, mq series,G >tuxedo), database server (Oracle DB2) and a diplay device -- then what 0 >technical superiority does OpenVMS have ??????? > D >Does it come down to a bunch of cryptic SYS$, LIB$, OTS$ calls ?? -5 >certainly Dec FORMS, FS, TDMS. SMG srent mainstream.   I I'm not in a position to give a technical justification, but when working H with VMS I have a feeling of confidence that it is a solidly constructedD operating system. The only other platform I've used that appeared as2 well-engineered was from IBM - and it wasn't Unix.  J I'd apply that "well-engineered" label to a great deal of the VMS freewareK I've used too. I guess a good operating system makes it easier to be a good 
 developer.  K I'll also (this time) leave others to criticise the past custodians of VMS.      Doc. --  : Time and money, the psychotropics of the business world...K ~ VAXman                                             https://vmsbox.cjb.net    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 16:00:26 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>  Subject: Re: COV Sponsors H Message-ID: <uCZha.60416$KlE.28518@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  5 "Jon Power" <qwqwqwqw70@hotmail.com> wrote in message 7 news:71367ac8.0303301601.44f3f14a@posting.google.com...    > Also, we helped write E > the book 'how to migrate VMS application to Digital UNIX' - you can * > still down load it from the HP web site.  > I have not been able to find this. Do you have a specific URL?   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 17:20:43 +0000 (UTC) + From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb)  Subject: Re: COV Sponsors + Message-ID: <b69tdb$ei4$2@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>   h In article <71367ac8.0303310502.3eb41b42@posting.google.com>, qwqwqwqw70@hotmail.com (Jon Power) writes:D >JF Mezei <snip> "VMS technical superiority under Alpha isn't enough	 >anymore"  >  >Jon Power:  > G >Mr Mezei wrote an excellent post and echo's what I have seen myself in  >the industry. > E >My background writing operating systems and compiler and other super " >low level stuff (real computing). > E >Now, with what I see in the undustry, I belief that not only has the G >various flavors of UNIX caught up with VMS but they have surpassed it.  > B >The big item used to be clustering, but : all UNIX os derivativesD >cluster now. not only that but because the clustering model is from= >Oracle (adopted from OpenVMS) its concistent across all unix  >platforms.   L Oracle clustering is just that ORACLE clustering. If you want clustering forN anything other than access to the Oracle databases then you cannot make use ofM that clustering. In particular the ORACLE clustering technology does not give N you a DLM which will work with a clustered filesystem. Some other Unixs do now< offer clustered filesystems but this is by no means true of  "all UNIX os derivatives".  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University     ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 11:18:07 -0500CA From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star-dot-zko-dot-dec-dot-com>M6 Subject: Re: Current LRDRIVER.C source?  (X-3 v. X-10). Message-ID: <3e886a40$1_1@hpb10302.boi.hp.com>  D It's just hasn't really been very high on anyones list... The X-3 is/ actually (from what I'm told) X-6 in the build.   L I'm be perfectly willing to mail you the sources if for some reason you need them.     G <sms@antinode.org> wrote in message news:03032719202341@antinode.org...nH >    On my VMS (Alpha) V7.2-1 system, the parallel port driver source inI > SYS$EXAMPLES:LRDRIVER.C says '#pragma module LRDRIVER "X-3"', while theo" > actual driver seems to be newer: > ' > ALP $ set default SYS$LOADABLE_IMAGES J > ALP $ pipe anal /imag SYS$LRDRIVER.EXE | search sys$input identification* >         Image Identification Information3 >                 image file identification: "X-10"eD >                 image file build identification: "X6TF-0050120000"1 >                 linker identification: "A11-39"d > G >    I would be grateful if, without resorting to suggestions like "buyfG > the source listings", anyone can supply a (free) way to get a copy ofo > the current source files.t >  >    What's true on V7.3-1?u >rJ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >u6 >    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98185 >    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode.orgu >    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547q   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 11:31:10 +0100 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: Default Gateway) Message-ID: <3E8818EE.F3F17DDA@127.0.0.1>    routerwoman wrote: > N > Is it possible to set up a default gateway on a VMS system.  I have a systemN > that's running RIPv1 just to talk to the one and only router in the network.G > Seems like a static route to the Gateway would stop all that chatter.O   All "what" chatter?O  : Connected an analyser to determine what the "chatter" is ?   -- g? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot comM   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Mar 2003 09:13:46 -0800( From: univms@bigfoot.com (Hamlyn Mootoo) Subject: Re: Default Gateway= Message-ID: <9cf7e06d.0303310913.5f19e228@posting.google.com>r  Y Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in message news:<3E8818EE.F3F17DDA@127.0.0.1>...  > routerwoman wrote: > > P > > Is it possible to set up a default gateway on a VMS system.  I have a systemP > > that's running RIPv1 just to talk to the one and only router in the network.I > > Seems like a static route to the Gateway would stop all that chatter.A >  > All "what" chatter?  > < > Connected an analyser to determine what the "chatter" is ?  F The "chatter" that she speaks of is RIP (Routing Information Protocol)( updates being exchanged with the router.   HM   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 12:02:06 +0100e' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancyq0 Subject: Re: Earth to Andrew, do you get it now?. Message-ID: <3E88202E.4020009@nospamn.sun.com>   Bob Ceculski wrote:e > Andrew writes: >  > 9 >>There is no OpenVMS magic bullet get used to it, I have 6 >>provided you with enough examples over the years and7 >>to be frank the argument is getting pretty pointless.) >  > <<<R > M > One of the good things in OpenVMS are the Descriptors. With this OpenVMS is L > protected against "buffer overflow" Also there was a better security modelJ > (e.g. xhost + versus security tripple transport, user, host). But in theM > newer times there are a lot of tools and programs without the philosophy ofgF > OpenVMS. The most one came from UNIX. So a lot of buggy tools become > standard in OpenVMS.  C No this is untrue you are not insulated against buffer overflows inn> OpenVMS, this is just another myth. You are more insulated but not insulated.  2 If you need confirmation of this ask Hoff Hoffman.   RegardsA Andrew HarrisonM   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 11:52:41 GMTi" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG0 Subject: Re: Earth to Andrew, do you get it now?0 Message-ID: <00A1DADA.98E53F3E@SendSpamHere.ORG>   In article <3E88202E.4020009@nospamn.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: >  >n >Bob Ceculski wrote: >> Andrew writes:e >> m >> h: >>>There is no OpenVMS magic bullet get used to it, I have7 >>>provided you with enough examples over the years and08 >>>to be frank the argument is getting pretty pointless. >> i >> <<< >> ,N >> One of the good things in OpenVMS are the Descriptors. With this OpenVMS isM >> protected against "buffer overflow" Also there was a better security model>K >> (e.g. xhost + versus security tripple transport, user, host). But in the N >> newer times there are a lot of tools and programs without the philosophy ofG >> OpenVMS. The most one came from UNIX. So a lot of buggy tools becomen >> standard in OpenVMS.  >eD >No this is untrue you are not insulated against buffer overflows in? >OpenVMS, this is just another myth. You are more insulated butt >not insulated.V >,3 >If you need confirmation of this ask Hoff Hoffman.> >t >Regards >Andrew Harrison >   , Sorry Bob but Andrew has made a valid point!  K A pointer to a descriptor *may* insulate one from a simple attempt to write K beyond the end of a string/array/etc. in the typical C language type refer-dK ence but any sufficiently knowledgeable whacker/cracker type would or coulduK modify the descriptor (assuming it is not in a read-only page) and write to L the string/array/etc. which said descriptor defines.  Doing so does not nec-K essarily mean that there will be any breach of the system.  Stack organiza-nL tion of call frames and other aspects of running code on VMS will likely re-L sult in some exception which will cause the code to exit -- if in a process,L this will result in the image being rundown or the process to be terminated;L if in some inner (privileged) mode, the result could be a system crash.  I'dL be very surprised to see some whacker/cracker type compromise a system usingM any buffer overflow scheme -- descriptor or not -- on VMS and cause a runningHL system to do anything more detrimental than a temporary denial of service --L ie. crash a system/process.  I'm not saying it is impossible, just unlikely.  M Hey Andrew, again, I'm sorry we couldn't arrange a rendezvous whilst I was inn> London.  I'm hoping you received the voice mails I left you.     --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMe             5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" s   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Mar 2003 08:03:35 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 0 Subject: Re: Earth to Andrew, do you get it now?3 Message-ID: <qbQvjT0nsghS@eisner.encompasserve.org>r  h In article <d7791aa1.0303301807.7412168f@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes: > 9 > One of the good things in OpenVMS are the Descriptors. e  -    Which C doens't use unless you tell it to.l   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 14:04:59 GMTi( From: "Mark E. Levy" <mlevy70@attbi.com>0 Subject: Re: Earth to Andrew, do you get it now?, Message-ID: <fWXha.39404$Zo.10519@sccrnsc03>  , <VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in message* news:00A1DADA.98E53F3E@SendSpamHere.ORG...   >  I'dH > be very surprised to see some whacker/cracker type compromise a system usingrG > any buffer overflow scheme -- descriptor or not -- on VMS and cause aa runningAC > system to do anything more detrimental than a temporary denial ofD
 service --D > ie. crash a system/process.  I'm not saying it is impossible, just	 unlikely.t  J Let me start by saying that I'm not in any way trying to defend or supportK Bob in any way, shape, or form. But the point of his message was just that:.L a programmer can manipulate the descriptor, either willfully or negligently,L to cause or allow buffer overflow. However, unless the program is privilegedH code, you can't compromise the O/S. Your process may die, but the systemH will keep chugging (I'm assuming, of course, that the system is properly? configured and tuned, which I realize can be a big assumption).n   ML   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Mar 2003 07:09:57 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)0 Subject: Re: Earth to Andrew, do you get it now?= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0303310709.5b4f3636@posting.google.com>    Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<3E88202E.4020009@nospamn.sun.com>...  > Bob Ceculski wrote:v > > Andrew writes: > >  > > ; > >>There is no OpenVMS magic bullet get used to it, I haver8 > >>provided you with enough examples over the years and9 > >>to be frank the argument is getting pretty pointless.  > >  > > <<<u > > O > > One of the good things in OpenVMS are the Descriptors. With this OpenVMS is0N > > protected against "buffer overflow" Also there was a better security modelL > > (e.g. xhost + versus security tripple transport, user, host). But in theO > > newer times there are a lot of tools and programs without the philosophy of H > > OpenVMS. The most one came from UNIX. So a lot of buggy tools become > > standard in OpenVMS. > E > No this is untrue you are not insulated against buffer overflows ino@ > OpenVMS, this is just another myth. You are more insulated but > not insulated. > 4 > If you need confirmation of this ask Hoff Hoffman. > 	 > Regards  > Andrew Harrisone  > but even if that is true, after reading others posts here, you> only get accvio errors or at worst maybe denial of service ...: you can't just get on a vms system and do the nasty things? that you can on unix/linux ... I think that has been made clearh? here and many times in the past, which means vms is more secureS? than unix/linux, and even the number of certs the past 10 yearsa7 prove it ... why don't you just admit the truth Andrew?    ------------------------------    Date: 31 Mar 2003 07:12:44 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)0 Subject: Re: Earth to Andrew, do you get it now?= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0303310712.73e26244@posting.google.com>B   Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<3E88202E.4020009@nospamn.sun.com>...a  + > You are more insulated but not insulated.  > 	 > Regardsg > Andrew Harrisona  9 so now you admit you are more secure on a vms system thann a garbage unix/linux one?    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 15:35:12 GMT>" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG0 Subject: Re: Earth to Andrew, do you get it now?0 Message-ID: <00A1DAF9.AD9B89A4@SendSpamHere.ORG>  h In article <d7791aa1.0303310712.73e26244@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes: >Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<3E88202E.4020009@nospamn.sun.com>... > , >> You are more insulated but not insulated. >> m
 >> Regards >> Andrew Harrison >b: >so now you admit you are more secure on a vms system than >a garbage unix/linux one?   Bob,  I I don't believe that I've ever met you in person, so I'd like to say thattI I do admire your zeal and your passion for VMS.  I too am an over-zealoustI VMS bigot.  However, there is nothing in life that is perfect (with, per- J haps, the exception of a certain "asshole" that once employed me).  PleaseJ try to tone down your superior/inferior rhetoric or you will risk becomingI "perfect" yourself in the eyes of those that frequent COV.  Many of COV'scI personalities have gone off on pro-VMS tirades from time to time (and I'm85 sure I myself have too) but not on a full-time basis.c  I At times, you and Andrew remind me of the Monty Python "Argument" sketch.a   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMs            v5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" h   ------------------------------   Date: 31 Mar 2003 15:54:54 GMT, From: bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)0 Subject: Re: Earth to Andrew, do you get it now?5 Message-ID: <b69ocd$324g4$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>   0 In article <00A1DAF9.AD9B89A4@sendspamhere.org>,# 	VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:>j > In article <d7791aa1.0303310712.73e26244@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes: >>Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<3E88202E.4020009@nospamn.sun.com>...  >>- >>> You are more insulated but not insulated.  >>; >>so now you admit you are more secure on a vms system than  >>a garbage unix/linux one?s > K > I don't believe that I've ever met you in person, so I'd like to say that K > I do admire your zeal and your passion for VMS.  I too am an over-zealous1K > VMS bigot.  However, there is nothing in life that is perfect (with, per-tL > haps, the exception of a certain "asshole" that once employed me).  PleaseL > try to tone down your superior/inferior rhetoric or you will risk becoming> > "perfect" yourself in the eyes of those that frequent COV.    8 Too late........                                     :-)   bill   -- iJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   c   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Mar 2003 19:08:51 -00004 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]>0 Subject: Re: Earth to Andrew, do you get it now?6 Message-ID: <20030331190851.16024.qmail@gacracker.org>  6 On Mon, 31 Mar 2003, VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:> >In article <d7791aa1.0303310712.73e26244@posting.google.com>,+ >bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:o  ; >>so now you admit you are more secure on a vms system than  >>a garbage unix/linux one?s   Gak!   Back ya go Bob.    NNTP> PLONK instantwhip.como" %NNTP-I-ADD, with cherries on top!  J >At times, you and Andrew remind me of the Monty Python "Argument" sketch.   No they *don't*!   ;-}I     Doc. -- B: Time and money, the psychotropics of the business world...K ~ VAXman                                             https://vmsbox.cjb.net    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 07:12:39 -0700i) From: "DigiDemon" <digidemon@hotmail.com>  Subject: Exporting users?d8 Message-ID: <pan.2003.03.31.14.12.39.659297@hotmail.com>  
 Hello all!  I I'll be totally redoing this OpenVMS machine from 7.2-1 to 7.3.  Is there2J any way I can save the users that are registered on this machine?  Thanks!   James0   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 17:15:22 +0100e* From: Andrew Robinson <arobinson@hspg.com> Subject: RE: Exporting users?aO Message-ID: <CDA4BAD1E10ED41181AC00508B6051D3023CCF12@grumpy.internal.hspg.com>h  > I'm sure there are better ways but, for my two pennies worth :K Go into Authorize and do a list /brief. Using your favourite list editor (InF used Excel boo hiss), edit the user list removing all the system styleC accounts & useless columns, & you are left with a nice list of userrF accounts, using that as your database you can write a quick routine toL stream these back into your new box & even keeping the same UIC numbers. SadJ no program method - if you have to just adding the DCl commands at the topH of the file & the ADD + parameters to every username, then @ing the fileL works. This sad method worked transferring 1000+ accounts from VAX to ALPHA.   Regardse Andrew Robinsond   -----Original Message-----/ From: DigiDemon [mailto:digidemon@hotmail.com] i
 Hello all!  I I'll be totally redoing this OpenVMS machine from 7.2-1 to 7.3.  Is there J any way I can save the users that are registered on this machine?  Thanks!   Jameso   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 17:20:04 +0100o- From: "Steve Spires" <Steve.Spires@torex.com>i Subject: RE: Exporting users? E Message-ID: <91947A84607D9D48B8E674A5FAB54DA6854496@tahiti.tinuk.com>   F Or, if you're doing an upgrade your users will remain 'registered', ifF you're completely rebuilding the box, just copy off the relevant files' and copy them back on when you're done.i   Cheers   Steve Spires Technical Consultant Torex Health [T] +44 (0) 1295 274200n [F] +44 (0) 1295 275131t
 www.torex.comt   >>-----Original Message-----6 >>From: Andrew Robinson [mailto:arobinson@hspg.com]=20 >>Sent: 31 March 2003 17:15e >>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comc >>Subject: RE: Exporting users?e >> >>A >>I'm sure there are better ways but, for my two pennies worth=20o9 >>: Go into Authorize and do a list /brief. Using your=20tA >>favourite list editor (I used Excel boo hiss), edit the user=20t: >>list removing all the system style accounts & useless=20? >>columns, & you are left with a nice list of user accounts,=20tA >>using that as your database you can write a quick routine to=20i@ >>stream these back into your new box & even keeping the same=20= >>UIC numbers. Sad no program method - if you have to just=20e? >>adding the DCl commands at the top of the file & the ADD +=20bA >>parameters to every username, then @ing the file works. This=20nB >>sad method worked transferring 1000+ accounts from VAX to ALPHA. >>	 >>Regardsn >>Andrew Robinsone >> >>-----Original Message-----3 >>From: DigiDemon [mailto:digidemon@hotmail.com]=20p >>Hello all! >>? >>I'll be totally redoing this OpenVMS machine from 7.2-1 to=20y9 >>7.3.  Is there any way I can save the users that are=20g& >>registered on this machine?  Thanks! >> >>Jamest >> >>   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 09:18:48 +0200,4 From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr>" Subject: Failed to get boot flags?& Message-ID: <3E87EBD8.3010802@Free.fr>  G I'm currently (re)building an Alphastation 250 4/266 offered by COMPAQ 0M Switzerland "for my valuable help at the UBS Bank in Zurich" last year (yes).e  Q I first installed an SCSI CD-ROM drive instead of the good old RRD42-AA (because  P   the box did not come with the tray), then changed the A09-PBXGA graphics card Q to a Matrox Millenuim because my Fujitsu Siemens flat term did not input support eI it, then booted the Hobbyist CD (the one with (c) 1998 Digital Equipment sB Corporation) and so far so good, I successfully installed VMS 7.2.  3 The included RZ26 is a bit slow, but what the heck.    Now, when I boot it, I get:a  + APB-I-FLBOOTFLAGS, Failed to get boot flags-  > This is the first time in my VMS life that I see this message. What is it?vC I know it is an information message only, but I like to understand.0 Thanks,e   D.% "Happiness is building a new VMS box"u   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 02:52:28 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>& Subject: Re: Failed to get boot flags?. Message-ID: <3E87E575.9376F6E@vl.videotron.ca>   Didier Morandi wrote:w- > APB-I-FLBOOTFLAGS, Failed to get boot flagsp  N Suspect your NVRAM may have been zapped at one point. If you have a manual for@ the SRM of that machine, I'd try to set all settable parameters.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 15:20:58 +0200o2 From: Mike Rechtman <michael.rechtman@digital.com>& Subject: Re: Failed to get boot flags?+ Message-ID: <3E885CDA.44516BFA@digital.com>o   Didier Morandi wrote:  > H > I'm currently (re)building an Alphastation 250 4/266 offered by COMPAQO > Switzerland "for my valuable help at the UBS Bank in Zurich" last year (yes)./ > R > I first installed an SCSI CD-ROM drive instead of the good old RRD42-AA (becauseQ >   the box did not come with the tray), then changed the A09-PBXGA graphics cardnR > to a Matrox Millenuim because my Fujitsu Siemens flat term did not input supportJ > it, then booted the Hobbyist CD (the one with (c) 1998 Digital EquipmentD > Corporation) and so far so good, I successfully installed VMS 7.2. > 5 > The included RZ26 is a bit slow, but what the heck.e >  > Now, when I boot it, I get:  > - > APB-I-FLBOOTFLAGS, Failed to get boot flagse > @ > This is the first time in my VMS life that I see this message.
 > What is it?lE > I know it is an information message only, but I like to understand.o	 > Thanks,i >  > D.' > "Happiness is building a new VMS box"p  - Check BOOT_OSFLAGS (should probably be "0,0"_a   --  E ---------------------------------------------------------------------eE Usual disclaimer: All opinions are mine alone, perhaps not even that.g? Mike Rechtman                            *rechtman@tzora.co.il*pF Kibbutz Tzor'a.                          Voice (home): 972-2-9908337  B   "20% of a job takes 80% of the time, the rest takes another 80%"E ---------------------------------------------------------------------e -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----  Version: 3.1: GCM/CS d(-)pu s:+>:- a++ C++ U-- L-- W++ N++ K? w--- V+++$6 PS+ PE-- t 5? X- tv-- b+ DI+ D-- G e++ h--- r+++ y+++@ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------D   ------------------------------   Date: 31 Mar 2003 11:48:15 GMT3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann) & Subject: Re: Failed to get boot flags?/ Message-ID: <b699tv$vs$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>p  ] In article <3E87EBD8.3010802@Free.fr>, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr> writes: H >I'm currently (re)building an Alphastation 250 4/266 offered by COMPAQ N >Switzerland "for my valuable help at the UBS Bank in Zurich" last year (yes). > R >I first installed an SCSI CD-ROM drive instead of the good old RRD42-AA (because Q >  the box did not come with the tray), then changed the A09-PBXGA graphics card eR >to a Matrox Millenuim because my Fujitsu Siemens flat term did not input support J >it, then booted the Hobbyist CD (the one with (c) 1998 Digital Equipment C >Corporation) and so far so good, I successfully installed VMS 7.2., > 4 >The included RZ26 is a bit slow, but what the heck. >a >Now, when I boot it, I get: > , >APB-I-FLBOOTFLAGS, Failed to get boot flags >g? >This is the first time in my VMS life that I see this message.i >What is it?D >I know it is an information message only, but I like to understand.  N Was the system powered off for a longer time? It could be that the battery for7 the NVRAM is somewhat weak and you got corrupted NVRAM.o   Regards,    Christoph Gartmannt  H -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, Germany                                           |H +------------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/menue.html -------------+   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 09:07:43 +0200 4 From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr># Subject: Re: Fortran Guru requested & Message-ID: <3E87E93F.4060401@Free.fr>   Bruin, J.M. de wrote:y > Ok,  >  > one thing at a time. > P > This one is / was obvious (to me). You can not use a 'parameter' as a variableO > within a sub program (passing it between quote's in the calling paramter (<-)e5 > list, will have Fortran treat it is as a PARAMETER.hQ > Passing it as %DESCR(......) will do the trick (I think) or just put the stringa5 > into a variable and put that in the parameter list.n > J > The new error is clearly related to the format of an output (i.e. write)J > statement either to an external file/device or during an internal write. > R > The error must state the line it occurs at or after. This might point you to the > problematic write.  O Yeah man, but how do you explain that some of you here did compile/link/run it e
 without pb???i   D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 17:00:32 +1000 1 From: Paddy O'Brien <paddy.o'brien@tg.nsw.gov.au>n# Subject: Re: Fortran Guru requestedr, Message-ID: <3E87E790.7060104@tg.nsw.gov.au>   Didier,*  G ? A different version of the compiler.  IIRC you said you were on 7.2, M the compiler is now at 7.5.   G To reply to an earlier message, yes I did pick up your source and that  K is what I tested.  However, as some answered here, I forget set term/vt100.e  + I shall try it tonight after working hours.    Regards, Paddy     Didier Morandi wrote:  > Bruin, J.M. de wrote:  >  >> Ok, >> >> one thing at a time.I >>I >> This one is / was obvious (to me). You can not use a 'parameter' as a V >> variable C >> within a sub program (passing it between quote's in the calling e >> paramter (<-)6 >> list, will have Fortran treat it is as a PARAMETER.H >> Passing it as %DESCR(......) will do the trick (I think) or just put 
 >> the stringn6 >> into a variable and put that in the parameter list. >>K >> The new error is clearly related to the format of an output (i.e. write)kK >> statement either to an external file/device or during an internal write.  >>I >> The error must state the line it occurs at or after. This might point o
 >> you to theb >> problematic write.r >  > = > Yeah man, but how do you explain that some of you here did e# > compile/link/run it without pb???a >  > D.      G ***********************************************************************   C "This electronic message and any attachments may contain privileged > and confidential information intended only for the use of the B addressees named above.  If you are not the intended recipient of C this email, please delete the message and any attachment and advise.B the sender.  You are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, 7 distribution, reproduction of this email is prohibited.t  A If you have received the email in error, please notify TransGrid aA immediately.  Any views expressed in this email are those of the t= individual sender except where the sender expressly and with  C authority states them to be the views of TransGrid.  TransGrid usese> virus scanning software but excludes any liability for viruses contained in any attachment.  < Please note the email address for TransGrid personnel is now$ firstname.lastname@transgrid.com.au"  G ***********************************************************************g   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 17:30:56 +1000 1 From: Paddy O'Brien <paddy.o'brien@tg.nsw.gov.au>i# Subject: Re: Fortran Guru requestedy, Message-ID: <3E87EEB0.5020508@tg.nsw.gov.au>   Mark,-  , Again with respect, I think I disagree here.  H There is a distinction in VMS Fortran passing a character constant or a : Hollerith constant.  And I believe you are confusing them.  B To my understanding, a CHARACTER constant (i.e., something within $ quotes) *IS* passed as a descriptor.  B The CXML/DXML/HPXML (?) library is based on LAPACK.  It uses such % character constants in many respects.p  H I would like to hope that Steve Lionel (or current VMS Fortran compiler F engineers) picks up on this thread, since he was at one time involved C with VMS Fortran.  He would surely clarify some of the "arguments" s? betwixt John Santos and you and I as to the passing mechanisms.e  H A further suggestion to Didier is to try comp.lang.fortran and pose his D question there.  There are many real Fortran gurus (people from the @ standards committee, including Richard Maine, the editor of the H standard) who will tell him either that his code is correct/standard (a @ compiler bug) or the incorrectness (is that a word) of his code.  H In the meantime, when I am out of office hours, I shall try to see what I the debugger says.  The code looks correct to me -- the code through the ID traceback does not look incorrect.  And I am further intrigued that H Didier seems to have a moving problem -- can you upgrade your compiler,  Didier?/   Regards, Paddy   Bruin, J.M. de wrote:s > Ok,m >  > one thing at a time. > P > This one is / was obvious (to me). You can not use a 'parameter' as a variableO > within a sub program (passing it between quote's in the calling paramter (<-)l5 > list, will have Fortran treat it is as a PARAMETER.sQ > Passing it as %DESCR(......) will do the trick (I think) or just put the string05 > into a variable and put that in the parameter list.  > J > The new error is clearly related to the format of an output (i.e. write)J > statement either to an external file/device or during an internal write. > R > The error must state the line it occurs at or after. This might point you to the > problematic write. >  > Good luck, >  > YMHO,a >  > Mark        G ***********************************************************************m  C "This electronic message and any attachments may contain privilegedi> and confidential information intended only for the use of the B addressees named above.  If you are not the intended recipient of C this email, please delete the message and any attachment and adviseiB the sender.  You are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, 7 distribution, reproduction of this email is prohibited.p  A If you have received the email in error, please notify TransGrid sA immediately.  Any views expressed in this email are those of the o= individual sender except where the sender expressly and with  C authority states them to be the views of TransGrid.  TransGrid usese> virus scanning software but excludes any liability for viruses contained in any attachment.  < Please note the email address for TransGrid personnel is now$ firstname.lastname@transgrid.com.au"  G ***********************************************************************    ------------------------------    Date: 31 Mar 2003 11:59:12 +0200' From: huber@mppmu.mpg.de (Joseph Huber) # Subject: Re: Fortran Guru requested + Message-ID: <BSiBgAOCSCLo@vms.mppmu.mpg.de>c  h In article <3e871def$0$28745$626a54ce@news.free.fr>, PRSTSC::DTL <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr> writes: > Bruin, J.M. de wrote:eO >> Are you passing the TAG variable as a variable or as a string in the call to 	 >> SLEEP?a > % > as a string within the parenthesis.  > I changed it to  > 	character duration*5s > ../..g > 	duration = '05:00'aK > and now I can go further but I get another error line 677 in routine SENDo > 5 > %FOR-F-OUTSTAOVE, Output statement overflows record   B I tested the program on VMS 7.3/Fortran 7.5-2630 without problems.  L How does Your LNK$LIBRARY logical look ? Maybe something causing a different- behaviour of run-time routines is linked in ?o  . --  N Joseph "Sepp" Huber   mailto:joseph.huber@web.de   http://www.huber-joseph.de/   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 12:10:48 +0200 4 From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr># Subject: Re: Fortran Guru requested5& Message-ID: <3E881428.8090502@Free.fr>   Joseph Huber wrote:qN > How does Your LNK$LIBRARY logical look ? Maybe something causing a different/ > behaviour of run-time routines is linked in ?o >  o   DTL02> sh log lnk*   (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)    (LNM$JOB_8142C400)   (LNM$GROUP_000001)   (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)   (LNM$SYSCLUSTER_TABLE)   (DECW$LOGICAL_NAMES)4 %SHOW-S-NOTRAN, no translation for logical name LNK*   D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 12:17:53 +0200u4 From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr># Subject: Re: Fortran Guru requesteda& Message-ID: <3E8815D1.4030401@Free.fr>   Paddy O'Brien wrote:Q > Didier seems to have a moving problem -- can you upgrade your compiler, Didier?'  / 31-MAR-2003 12:12:50  Compaq Fortran V7.4A-1588e  P Well, upgrading a Hobbyist Layered Product is an adventure that I did not start P yet. I however understood that I need to find my DECUS number first to open the ) Magic Gates of the Montagar Temple... :-)w   D.   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Mar 2003 07:52:07 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) # Subject: Re: Fortran Guru requestedb3 Message-ID: <aagCEuDCBwho@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  h In article <3e858dd7$0$28763$626a54ce@news.free.fr>, PRSTSC::DTL <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr> writes:    aR > %SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation, reason mask=00, virtual address=000000000000( > 0030, PC=FFFFFFFF808E5380, PS=0000001B  D    The program tried to read address 30.  30 happends to be ASCII 0.  R >   SPCINV  INVADERS  SLEEP                  141 0000000000000ADC 0000000000030ADC   > # > 132         SUBROUTINE SLEEP(TAG)w  * > 139         CHARACTER DELTA_TIME*9,TAG*5 > 140 C > 141         DELTA_TIME='0 ::'//TAG          !Concatenate strings.   G    DELETE_TIME is OK, and '0 ::' is OK, so something must be wrong withaH    TAG.  There's a very good change that TAG was not passed as CHARACTERE    (which passes by descriptor, but as INTEGER or REAL, which pass by     address.)  F    Track down the call to TAG at line 597 of file INVADERS (in routine'    SPECIAL_GRAPHIC) and change it from:-         	 TAG(x)      to'         	 TAG(%DESCR(x))    .   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Mar 2003 07:55:23 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)0# Subject: Re: Fortran Guru requested 3 Message-ID: <aT3AMs4d8mlb@eisner.encompasserve.org>r  ] In article <3E85B967.1010304@Free.fr>, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr> writes:d  2 > 			CALL SLEEP('10.00')	!Use all five characters.  F      For some reason (compiler quailifer?)  '10.00' is being passed asD    by address.  Try changing the compiler qualifiers, or change this    type of call to  A       	    	CALL SLEEP(%DESCR('10.00'))	!Use all five characters.f   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Mar 2003 07:55:48 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)t# Subject: Re: Fortran Guru requestede3 Message-ID: <TpGklVLnDKKo@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  v In article <a813e962.0303291222.6e17980b@posting.google.com>, dave.reynolds@gallatinsteel.com (David Reynolds) writes:    >> 	CHARACTER DELTA_TIME*9,TAG*5 > .... > Shouldn't that be? >  CHARACTER*9 DELTA_TIME  >  CHARACTER*5 TAG      No difference.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 15:00:14 +0100-+ From: John Laird <john@laird-towers.org.uk>r# Subject: Re: Fortran Guru requested>8 Message-ID: <15ig8vcjfvghqv4cffst4kk99l7nt4lqp3@4ax.com>  1 On Mon, 31 Mar 2003 17:30:56 +1000, Paddy O'Brieno$ <paddy.o'brien@tg.nsw.gov.au> wrote:  I >There is a distinction in VMS Fortran passing a character constant or a e; >Hollerith constant.  And I believe you are confusing them.  >tC >To my understanding, a CHARACTER constant (i.e., something within o% >quotes) *IS* passed as a descriptor.h  I I've not looked at emitted code for some time, but it used to be the casetK that the old Vax Fortran 77 compiler created constructs for the argument toeJ be passed as either a character string by descriptor, or a null-terminatedH Hollerith "string" by reference, and it was the linker's job to sort outG which to use based on the declaration of the called routine.  (The nulls6 termination would offer PDP Fortran 77 compatibility.)  A I would hazard a guess that "by descriptor" would be the default.m  E My hunch would be that Didier is having run-time problems rather thano  experiencing a compiler "funny".     	Johns   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 16:27:38 +0100c+ From: John Laird <john@laird-towers.org.uk>r# Subject: Re: Fortran Guru requestedc8 Message-ID: <mdng8vgr4u5a3tnnt5lph6us1t89tj53s3@4ax.com>  2 On Mon, 31 Mar 2003 12:10:48 +0200, Didier Morandi& <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr> wrote:   >Joseph Huber wrote:O >> How does Your LNK$LIBRARY logical look ? Maybe something causing a differentr0 >> behaviour of run-time routines is linked in ? >>   >m >DTL02> sh log lnk*u >i >(LNM$PROCESS_TABLE) >: >(LNM$JOB_8142C400)n >p >(LNM$GROUP_000001)t >e >(LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)r >d >(LNM$SYSCLUSTER_TABLE)e >v >(DECW$LOGICAL_NAMES)b5 >%SHOW-S-NOTRAN, no translation for logical name LNK*   I What do you see in the object module synopsis at the top of the .MAP filesL using LINK/MAP/FULL/CROSS ?  I see only INVADERS, two SYS$xxDEF modules fromI STARLET, and then shareable images DEC$FORTTL, SCRSHR, LIBOTS and finally)J SYS$PUBLIC_VECTORS.  Could you be accidentally linking in something else ?  F I can verify it compiles, links and runs on an AS255 under 7.3-1 usingH Fortran V7.5  (I can't control the little base very well, but it doesn't	 crash...)i     	Johno   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 17:33:19 +0200t4 From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr># Subject: Re: Fortran Guru requestedH& Message-ID: <3E885FBF.7020207@Free.fr>   John Laird wrote:aK > What do you see in the object module synopsis at the top of the .MAP filetN > using LINK/MAP/FULL/CROSS ?  I see only INVADERS, two SYS$xxDEF modules fromK > STARLET, and then shareable images DEC$FORTTL, SCRSHR, LIBOTS and finallytL > SYS$PUBLIC_VECTORS.  Could you be accidentally linking in something else ?    L INVADERS                            16252 SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSMGR]SPCINV.OBJ;25 , 31-MAR-2003 12:12  Compaq Fortran V7.4A-1588K SYS$IODEF       V04-000                 0 SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]STARLET.OLB;1 n% 16-MAR-2001 22:45  AMAC V4.1-11-3381UhK SYS$SSDEF       V04-000                 0 SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]STARLET.OLB;1 t% 16-MAR-2001 22:47  AMAC V4.1-11-3381U N DEC$FORRTL      V01-05.745              0 SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]DEC$FORRTL.EXE;1   10-APR-2001 21:40  Linker A11-50J SCRSHR          X-6                     0 SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]SCRSHR.EXE;1   17-MAR-2001 03:05  Linker A11-50J LIBOTS          LIBOTS V1.5-00          0 SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]LIBOTS.EXE;1   17-MAR-2001 03:04  Linker A11-50 SYS$PUBLIC_VECTORSL                  X-88                    0 [SYSLIB]SYS$PUBLIC_VECTORS.EXE;1   17-MAR-2001 03:03  Linker A11-50   D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 16:59:51 +0100 + From: John Laird <john@laird-towers.org.uk>o# Subject: Re: Fortran Guru requestedo8 Message-ID: <cdpg8vog0bhnbfk04qeq8msj9ft9rbqmon@4ax.com>  2 On Mon, 31 Mar 2003 17:33:19 +0200, Didier Morandi& <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr> wrote:   >John Laird wrote:L >> What do you see in the object module synopsis at the top of the .MAP fileO >> using LINK/MAP/FULL/CROSS ?  I see only INVADERS, two SYS$xxDEF modules fromdL >> STARLET, and then shareable images DEC$FORTTL, SCRSHR, LIBOTS and finallyM >> SYS$PUBLIC_VECTORS.  Could you be accidentally linking in something else ?  >e >rM >INVADERS                            16252 SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSMGR]SPCINV.OBJ;25 ,- >31-MAR-2003 12:12  Compaq Fortran V7.4A-1588rL >SYS$IODEF       V04-000                 0 SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]STARLET.OLB;1 & >16-MAR-2001 22:45  AMAC V4.1-11-3381UL >SYS$SSDEF       V04-000                 0 SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]STARLET.OLB;1 & >16-MAR-2001 22:47  AMAC V4.1-11-3381UO >DEC$FORRTL      V01-05.745              0 SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]DEC$FORRTL.EXE;1 p! >10-APR-2001 21:40  Linker A11-50sK >SCRSHR          X-6                     0 SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]SCRSHR.EXE;1 n! >17-MAR-2001 03:05  Linker A11-50aK >LIBOTS          LIBOTS V1.5-00          0 SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]LIBOTS.EXE;1 i! >17-MAR-2001 03:04  Linker A11-50n >SYS$PUBLIC_VECTORScM >                 X-88                    0 [SYSLIB]SYS$PUBLIC_VECTORS.EXE;1 s! >17-MAR-2001 03:03  Linker A11-50   F Okay, I think we have to start suggesting an upgrade (or downgrade) of compiler again !     	Johna   ------------------------------   Date: 31 Mar 2003 12:25 CDT ' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)s# Subject: Re: Fortran Guru requesteda- Message-ID: <31MAR200312254158@gerg.tamu.edu>o    Didier.Morandi@Free.fr writes... }Carl Perkins wrote: } < }> I compiled this. ($ fortran/extend/align=natural si.for )  }> I linked this.   ($ link si ) }> I ran this.      ($ run si )- }> -
 }> No errors., }> a  }> Compaq Fortran V7.3-965-44A1I }> OpenVMS V7.2-1t }  } , }DTL02> fortran/extend/align=natural spcinv2 }DTL02> lin spcinv2X }DTL02> run spcinv2r } ' }Attention: Alien invasion in progress!n } 4 }Instructions:   <1>     to move the laser base left0 }                 <2>     to halt the laser base6 }                 <3>     to move the laser base right. }                 <space> to fire a laser beam! }                 <Q>     to quity } + }         Type:   <1>     to play BloodbathD2 }                 <2>     to play We Come in Peace8 }                 <3>     to play Invasion of the Aliens9 }                 <4>     to play Invisible Alien Weaselso }1 } ) }I run faster in VT52 mode.  To set, typef! }SET TERM/VT52   (and that's all)g+ }from DCL level.  Otherwise, wait a moment.w  K Up to this point, this is what I get. (I think the sleep of 10 seconds heree is excessive, by the way.)  " After this I get the game playing.  Q }%SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation, reason mask=00, virtual address=000000000000 ' }0030, PC=FFFFFFFF808E5380, PS=0000001B 0 }%TRACE-F-TRACEBACK, symbolic stack dump followsL }   image    module    routine             line      rel PC           abs PCQ }                                             0 0000000000000000 FFFFFFFF808E5380 Q }  SPCINV2  INVADERS  SLEEP                 141 0000000000000ADC 0000000000030ADCUQ }  SPCINV2  INVADERS  SPECIAL_GRAPHIC       579 0000000000002BB8 0000000000032BB82Q }  SPCINV2  INVADERS  MOVE                   42 00000000000003D0 00000000000303D0 Q }  SPCINV2  INVADERS  INVADERS               27 0000000000000000 0000000000000000uQ }                                             0 FFFFFFFF802513D4 FFFFFFFF802513D4r }DTL02> sh symb for > }%DCL-W-UNDSYM, undefined symbol - check validity and spelling  H Yeah, the command up above isn't what I actually entered, I just enteredL "for si" - I expanded my "for" symbol into its definition for my information	 up above.r   }DTL02> sh symb fortran > }%DCL-W-UNDSYM, undefined symbol - check validity and spelling }DTL02> prod sh prod= }----------------------------------- ----------- ------------e6 }PRODUCT                             KIT TYPE    STATE= }----------------------------------- ----------- ------------t: }CPQ AXPVMS MOZILLA B1.1             Full LP     Installed: }CPQ AXPVMS VEST T1.2                Full LP     Installed: }DEC AXPVMS DECNET_PHASE_IV V7.3     Full LP     Installed: }DEC AXPVMS DWMOTIF V1.2-6           Full LP     Installed: }DEC AXPVMS FORRTL V7.4-2            Full LP     Installed: }DEC AXPVMS FORTRAN V7.4-2           Full LP     Installed: }DEC AXPVMS JAVA131 V1.3-14          Full LP     Installed: }DEC AXPVMS MMOV V2.2                Full LP     Installed: }DEC AXPVMS OPENVMS V7.3             Platform    Installed: }DEC AXPVMS TCPIP V5.1-15            Full LP     Installed: }DEC AXPVMS VMS V7.3                 Oper System Installed= }----------------------------------- ----------- ------------  }  }11 items found  }  }??? }  }D.i  9 DEC AXPVMS FORRTL V7.4-3            Full LP     Installedg9 DEC AXPVMS FORTRAN V7.3-1           Full LP     Installedr  K So my Fortran is a dot version back, but my FORRTL is a dash version ahead.oM The release notes for my version of the FORRTL do not say what the differencewE between the -2 and -3 release is (there is a "new to V7.4-2" section,nH but no "new to V7.4-3" section; there is information about multithreadedN applications that my be new to this version, but that should not be relevant.)  ( I'm also on VMS V7.2-1, rather than 7.3.  G What is the default /FLOAT= with your version? With mine it is G_FLOAT..  B My suggestion: go to INTEGER*4 TIME(2) instead of double precision? (or INTEGER*8 if you don't care about VAX compatability). TherepC is some slight chance that the floating point is messing things up,.E especially if it now defaults to an IEEE data type (which can do some  weird things).   --- Carl   ------------------------------   Date: 31 Mar 2003 12:27 CDTe' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)v# Subject: Re: Fortran Guru requestedo- Message-ID: <31MAR200312275514@gerg.tamu.edu>n  5 Paddy O'Brien <paddy.o'brien@tg.nsw.gov.au> writes...iI }I tried compiling, linking and running.  The first two were successful,  I }but the program did not like that I am on a DECterm.  It claimed access oI }to only a VT100 or VT52.  Since it was only a spurious exercise, I have e! }not bothered to change the code.h }  }Regards, Paddyy   It does also recognize a VT200.    $ SET TERM/DEV=VT200   and it works for me.   --- Carl   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Mar 2003 06:19:46 -0800) From: munroe@csworks.com (Richard Munroe)t4 Subject: Freeware/Decus CD Search Engine is alive...< Message-ID: <8d09fa7.0303310619.72812233@posting.google.com>  F Finally.  Avoid the htdig 3.2.0 releases like the plague.  3.1.6 works
 like a champ.   D I've finally gotten the indexing running and the search stuff on theD freeware and decus pages hooked up.  About 1/2 of my current contentF is indexed and the rest should be done by tomorrow.  Hit it and let meD know what, if anything, needs to be added.  Right now I suspect thatC the search capability is "too broad" since the database encompasses.C everything.  Let me know what filtering might be handy and I'll seee what htdig can do for us.n   Anyway, the URLs are:w      http://freeware.acornsw.com/>    http://decus.acornsw.com/  3 and the search form at the top of the page is live.a   Dick Munroeo  1 p.s. I'm looking for work.  My CV is available at B http://www.csworks.com/cv.  Take a look and if you've got a match, lets see what we can work out.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 10:57:20 +0100e From: Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net>t+ Subject: Re: Gotta have those ol' time docso) Message-ID: <3E881106.47E69935@Omond.net>    Jerry Leichter wrote:n  H > [Boy, it's interesting to look at comp.os.vms again.  It's been years.G > Nice to see many of the same names - and, in a way, nicer to see some  > new ones!] > E > Are you, or do you know, a packrat who keeps around old VMS-relatedcG > documentation?  I need stuff specifically related to DECnet, and even H > more specifically to DECnet management.  I'd especially love to get myI > hands on the old POLYCENTER docs.  The older the better; anything after-D > about 1995 is of no interest.  CD or hardcopy is fine.  Obviously,G > on-line is easiest - but not necessary.  I am in a position to pay tou' > either buy or just borrow this stuff.. >2J > I know I used to lambaste people for asking for personal replies but ...H > I very much doubt there's broad interest in this issue - and it's niceG > to see that comp.os.vms still gets quite a bit of traffic anyway.  Sor5 > ... if you could drop me a line, I'd appreciate it.o  : How nice to see a message from Jerry again in comp.os.vms.  I Jerry, what *are* you up to these days ?  Still involved with Linda ? ;-)   A I'll see if I can dig out some of my doc CD's (from around 1994).   	 Roy Omond  Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 17:21:45 +0100 0 From: Chris Sharman <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam># Subject: Re: High RMS file activityo+ Message-ID: <3E886B19.6080604@sorry.nospam>m   Hein wrote:hV > Still, for grins, run my rms_tune_check (script in the .txt file) on a critical disk  > or two and send me the output?T > It has not been used that much and I am still collecting feedback as to how to set > some knobs/rules.    Some feedback for you:H Some 'BUG!!' messages below. Apart from the zinco.msaf$cat file (pw/mac F stuff) these are mostly busy files, which don't show errors via other D programs, although they were almost certainly open for write at the H time. All apart from zinco had several screenfuls of identical errors - I I've just shown a few. If you'd like to see the files, or more detail, I n can supply.i  F Nice alert to massively duplicated key values - will be using that to   fix a few (with null keys, etc).   Also, we do: $ anal/rms/fdl* $ edi/fdl/nointer/gran=double/emph=smaller
 $ conv/fdl on a weekly basis.I Still I see a lot of 'suggestions' & on a Monday morning too (just after m1 the tune). Typically on large files: ~2M records. F We have fairly big clusters (9k on 9G disks) - compatibility hangover.E Should I have smaller clusters, or different tuning, or are the file r sizes a problem ?0    $1$DKA500:[OTHER]DESPATCH.DAT;310 - BUG!! Bad record flag 3 at byte 49 in bucket 41 - BUG!! Bad record flag 3 at byte 49 in bucket 16]1 - BUG!! Bad record flag 3 at byte 49 in bucket 28V1 - BUG!! Bad record flag 3 at byte 49 in bucket 52  $2$DKB102:[COE]DESPATCH.DAT;155t0 - BUG!! Bad record flag 3 at byte 49 in bucket 41 - BUG!! Bad record flag 3 at byte 49 in bucket 1811 - BUG!! Bad record flag 3 at byte 49 in bucket 32t1 - BUG!! Bad record flag 3 at byte 49 in bucket 46-* $2$DKB202:[COE.TRAIN.DATA]HELDORDERS.DAT;1: - ROOT:  Primary key index root level is high: 2 (goal=1).= - ROOT: Alternate key 1 index root level is high: 2 (goal=1).t= - ROOT: Alternate key 3 index root level is high: 2 (goal=1). 2 - BUG!! Bad record flag 0 at byte 476 in bucket 12& $2$DKB202:[MAC.SYSTEM]ZINCO.MSAF$CAT;1: - ROOT:  Primary key index root level is high: 2 (goal=1).4 - BUG!! Bad record flag 0 at byte 227 in bucket 2179" $2$DKB204:[AD.DATA]DESPATCH.DAT;420 - BUG!! Bad record flag 3 at byte 49 in bucket 41 - BUG!! Bad record flag 3 at byte 49 in bucket 15'1 - BUG!! Bad record flag 3 at byte 49 in bucket 37s1 - BUG!! Bad record flag 3 at byte 49 in bucket 48i   Thanks,o Chris    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 17:22:20 +0100r0 From: Chris Sharman <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam># Subject: Re: High RMS file activityc+ Message-ID: <3E886B3C.1000302@sorry.nospam>    Hein wrote:oV > Still, for grins, run my rms_tune_check (script in the .txt file) on a critical disk  > or two and send me the output?T > It has not been used that much and I am still collecting feedback as to how to set > some knobs/rules.b   Some feedback for you:H Some 'BUG!!' messages below. Apart from the zinco.msaf$cat file (pw/mac F stuff) these are mostly busy files, which don't show errors via other D programs, although they were almost certainly open for write at the H time. All apart from zinco had several screenfuls of identical errors - I I've just shown a few. If you'd like to see the files, or more detail, I   can supply.   F Nice alert to massively duplicated key values - will be using that to   fix a few (with null keys, etc).   Also, we do: $ anal/rms/fdl* $ edi/fdl/nointer/gran=double/emph=smaller
 $ conv/fdl on a weekly basis.I Still I see a lot of 'suggestions' & on a Monday morning too (just after l1 the tune). Typically on large files: ~2M records. F We have fairly big clusters (9k on 9G disks) - compatibility hangover.E Should I have smaller clusters, or different tuning, or are the file d sizes a problem ?     $1$DKA500:[OTHER]DESPATCH.DAT;310 - BUG!! Bad record flag 3 at byte 49 in bucket 41 - BUG!! Bad record flag 3 at byte 49 in bucket 16 1 - BUG!! Bad record flag 3 at byte 49 in bucket 28o1 - BUG!! Bad record flag 3 at byte 49 in bucket 52s $2$DKB102:[COE]DESPATCH.DAT;155,0 - BUG!! Bad record flag 3 at byte 49 in bucket 41 - BUG!! Bad record flag 3 at byte 49 in bucket 18e1 - BUG!! Bad record flag 3 at byte 49 in bucket 32o1 - BUG!! Bad record flag 3 at byte 49 in bucket 46S* $2$DKB202:[COE.TRAIN.DATA]HELDORDERS.DAT;1: - ROOT:  Primary key index root level is high: 2 (goal=1).= - ROOT: Alternate key 1 index root level is high: 2 (goal=1).x= - ROOT: Alternate key 3 index root level is high: 2 (goal=1).02 - BUG!! Bad record flag 0 at byte 476 in bucket 12& $2$DKB202:[MAC.SYSTEM]ZINCO.MSAF$CAT;1: - ROOT:  Primary key index root level is high: 2 (goal=1).4 - BUG!! Bad record flag 0 at byte 227 in bucket 2179" $2$DKB204:[AD.DATA]DESPATCH.DAT;420 - BUG!! Bad record flag 3 at byte 49 in bucket 41 - BUG!! Bad record flag 3 at byte 49 in bucket 15t1 - BUG!! Bad record flag 3 at byte 49 in bucket 37-1 - BUG!! Bad record flag 3 at byte 49 in bucket 480   Thanks,i Christ   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 06:48:39 -0700 . From: "David D Miller" <ddmiller@raytheon.com>< Subject: Re: Hoff, what is the status of your book ? (Again)F Message-ID: <OF6F657F73.0181C6E0-ON07256CFA.004B8DB2@rsc.raytheon.com>   Fabio:  H Nope.  This book is more general.  Please note it is a second edition o= f anH existing book.  It has been updated to include more Alpha-specific topi= cs! and examples are from OVMS 7.3-1.    dave.c   Fabio Cardoso writes ..i   Hi  - Is this book about : Performance Management ?p   Regards    FC1 --- David D Miller <ddmiller@raytheon.com> wrote:lH > Hoff has done quite a bit or work on the 2nd edition but was unable t= o.H > finish.  Digital Press asked me to finish it up.  We are targeting an=   > October publication date.  >- > dave.L >, > MIchael Rice wrote ....  > @ > This question was posed about 6 months ago in this same group. >hH > Referencing the book: "OpenVMS System Management Guide", Digital Pres= s, > ISBN: 1555582435.  >.H > Mine's been on order at Amazon for quite some time.  Is there an upda= tedl& > ETA for this sure-to-be masterpiece? >- >- >- >- >-     =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D-I =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=  =3D=3D F=E1bio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazilr fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.brI =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=e =3D=3D  2 __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!?F Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com-     =+   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 11:00:51 -0500 A From: Richard Hammersley <richard.hammersley%spam%@dartmouth.edu>  Subject: hsz40 to ba35x cableT, Message-ID: <3E886633.7060700@dartmouth.edu>  I Anyone know what the part number is for the cable that goes from a hsz40 r to a BA35x shelf ?   Thanks.c   Richard8   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 11:04:10 -0500 A From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star-dot-zko-dot-dec-dot-com>M5 Subject: Re: LCD panel, 500au, ELSA Gloria Card, How?k, Message-ID: <3e8866fd_2@hpb10302.boi.hp.com>  C Try 1280x1024 @ 60Hz.  If that doesn't work then try 1024x768@60Hz.   L Most of the LCD stuff wants 60Hz, although tye can usually handle the higher rate, they don't need it.b      ; "Lyndon Bartels" <lbartels@pressenter.com> wrote in messagee( news:3E81CAB7.56FCE528@pressenter.com...2 > I took delivery on a new toy last week, an ES47. >o > Nice machine.y >sB > One of the things that came with it was a new 18" LCD flat panelD > display. I decided to use a regular CRT on the 47, and put the LCD > display on my 500au PWS. >  >tB > Other then the obvious differences, the systems are a lot alike. >ID > Both are running VMS 7.3-1, with all the latest and greatest ECOs. > J > The 500au has an ELSA Gloria card. The ES47, the newer 3DLabs Oxygen VX1 > card.  >sJ > The 500au is running the older style DECwindows, the ES47 the newer GUI. >  >-I > The problem is, the LCD monitor doesn't want to work on the 500au undera
 > DECwindows.u >uH > All the normal console like messages show up on the monitor just fine.I > When DECwindows starts, the LCD display goes blank. And stays that way.  > G > The monitor says to run at 1280x1024x60Hz. I had the old VRC21 set to > > 1280x1024x70Hz. So I set the refresh rate down. Still no go. >w3 > I checked the ES47, and that was running at 70Hz.- >-C > The 500au has a GZA0: graphics device, while the ES47 has a GFA0:r	 > device.M >n >< > Any Guesses? Thoughts? etc?  >j >: >: > Thanks in advance, >  > Lyndon >3 >E > --I > My opinions are mine and mine alone. They seldom align with those of my. > employer.o >i > J > The only good thing about putting the cart before the horse is you don't > have > to look at the horse's butt.   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 12:05:47 +0000 (UTC)T+ From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb)t7 Subject: RE: Legato vs TSM for VMS backup pros and consa+ Message-ID: <b69aur$cul$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>   ~ In article <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660EBF@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>, "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> writes: >Re: bare metal recovery ..h >r >One approach -=20I >- move sysuaf, rightlist, proxy, mail and other files open for write etc.# >to another shared disk in cluster.tF >- use OpenVMS online backup to save system disk to a saveset on local! >disk (or remote for that matter)a ????  M If the saveset is on the local disk then in a disaster recovery situation ie n4 complete loss of system then that copy is also gone.O If its on remote disk then I don't think you can get any networking - decnet ore, TCPIP going just from a boot from the OS CD.  O Hence you need to backup that saveset. You can't back it up using TSM since youcJ will still have the same logical problem for recovery ie no TSM client and networking available.l  N Hence best bet is you back it up to a local tape drive in which case you don'tK need to have saved it in a saveset to a local drive since you can write the> saveset directly to tape.(  I Second best you back it up to a remote tape drive. The tape drive you arerM backing up to remotely must be compatible with the system you are backing up wN since you will need to be able to attach it (or a similar) drive to the system locally for the restore.  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University  E >- use TSM or Legato or ISE for backup of all other files (keeping inf >mind open file issues) F >- if hw RAID set went away for system disk and needed to be recoveredC >from scratch, simply use OpenVMS OS distribution Cdrom to boot ands! >restore the system disk saveset.p >l           >Regards >  >Kerry Mainu >Senior Consultant >Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co. " >Consulting & Integration Services >Voice: 613-592-4660 >Fax   : 613-591-4477* >Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom*. >    (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s)  >OpenVMS DCL - the original .COM >n >o >-----Original Message-----e6 >From: David Webb [mailto:david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk]=20 >Sent: March 30, 2003 1:01 PMe >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com8 >Subject: Re: Legato vs TSM for VMS backup pros and cons >  >uB >In article <1030330002420.8821C-100000@Ives.egh.com>, John Santos ><JOHN@egh.com> writes:i$ >>On 29 Mar 2003, PROSULLIVAN wrote: >>H >>> Given the not very enviable choice between Legato and TSM for VMS=20 >>> backups, is it right thatt >>>=20H >>> a) both products cannot do true image backups (eg for legato: you=20I >>> have to restore to seperate system disk and issue a 'writeboot.exe' -f >rJ >>> um, not sure if I would trust that in a critical restore situation,=202 >>> especially if I wanted a point in time backup) >>>=20I >>> b) both product's support for VAXes is questionable...like, Legato=20*# >>> have shuffled about the answer.  >>>=20J >>> Oh, and no I don't want to do local tape backups on dat, dlt etc on=20F >>> hundreds of local servers unless I double the amount of operators. >>>=20
 >>> Thanks >> >E >.E >According to IBM consultants we spoke to recently TSM can't do "barerF >metal recovery". This applies to Unix systems just as much as VMS. ToH >restore a Unix system with TSM you would need to restore the OS and the1 >TSM client before you could do any TSM restores.s >tI >I'm not sure whether Legato can do any better ie by providing an ability?H >to boot a minimum OS and Legato client from CD or Tape (this would alsoI >obviously need to enable networking if you are not backing up to a localn >tape device) -=20= >in other words by providing a "stand-alone backup" facility.  >h >S >David Webb  >VMS and Unix team leaderf >CCSSr >Middlesex UniversitynH >>One customer uses ADSM (I think this is an old name for Tivoli) for=20K >>site backup.  Our app, running on a cluster of 2 VAX 66x0's, is forced=20eC >>to use it.  Apart from not supporting true image backups (they=20iJ >>attempted once to recover the system disk to a scratch disk and never=20H >>got it to work), and occasional performance glitches, it seems to work >okay. >>E >>ABC (the VMS client software, from someplace called SSSI, IIRC),=20 G >>actually worked better than I at first expected.  It required less=20eF >>heavy-handed bashing to get it to do what we wanted than I expected. >>I >>We keep old transaction and update history for about 18 months. About 6a >yG >>months are online, and our application automatically retreives the=20kH >>older stuff from ADSM on demand.  This seems to work fine, at least=20K >>since we got them to keep the "18 month archive" for 18 months instead=20tC >>of 35 days (misconfigured ADSM server - that was an adventure...)t >>4 >>VAX support seems to be on par with Alpha support. >>G >>BTW, about the system disk - I expect with some help (and possibly=20 I >>manually fixing aliasing problems) we could get it to recover okay, butd > I >>I think in real life if we ever lose it (shadowed, and extremely statice >vI >>since there is nothing but VMS on it), it would be easier to do a freshc > G >>install of VMS, restore the system startup files and authorization=20dK >>files (which we backup separately and frequently), re-create the queue=20*K >>database (we have a command file to do this, and it isn't that hairy -=20cK >>a dozen queues, not hundreds...) and it'll be back quicker than trying=20r3 >>to de-muck a non-image backup of the system disk.  >>% >>I don't know anything about Legato.  >>J >>The customer is currently mumbling about NetBackup.  Is this the same=20H >>as Legato or a third product?  Should I be relieved or should I run=20 >>screaming from the room? >> >>--
 >>John Santost >>   ------------------------------   Date: 31 MAR 2003 16:46:18 GMT4 From: karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher)' Subject: Re: Macs vs. Pathworks et. al.n6 Message-ID: <31MAR03.16461880@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>  = In a previous article, Bob Harris <harris@zk3.dec.com> wrote:l  K ->Disclaimer:  I've never tried connecting to the PC PATHWORKS or Advanced r ->Server on OpenVMS. ->  J ->Mac OS X can connect to SMB shares out of the box.  This is provided as & ->part of Mac OS X.  No muss, no fuss.  A Last time I tried this from OS 10.2 to Pathworks V6.1 I received:+  %        "An error has occurred: -5000"b  F Support will say "MacIntosh clients are not supported by PATHWORKS forE OpenVMS V6.1". Have them escalate it anyway. If enough of us to that P< it might get fixed. I've not tried it with AS 7.3A-ECO1 yet.   --G -- Carl Karcher, Waisman Computing Services, Waisman Center, UW-Madisong9 --                  karcher.nomorespam@waisman.wisc.edu  p   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 14:42:55 GMTd3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond)g Subject: My Emailn- Message-ID: <PtYha.49$3f.14@news.cpqcorp.net>   G If you have "de-spamed" and tried to reply or send email to the addressaE in ther From and Reply-To headers, or in my signature lines, you have?G probably had your mail bounced.  This condition occured when I changed iH offices and IP addresses recently.  It has now been fixed and you should be able to reach me.   --  J       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 09:05:08 -0500d* From: "Dick Hertz" <dick.hertz@nospam.com> Subject: MySQL on OpenVMS?. Message-ID: <3e884b15$1_1@hpb10302.boi.hp.com>  G Has anybody played with getting MySQL, open source database, running on_ OpenVMS?   If so, how does it look?   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 14:28:39 GMT-0 From: "labadie" <en_trajectant_a_mort@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: MySQL on OpenVMS?- Message-ID: <rgYha.47$De.37@news.cpqcorp.net>n  5 "Dick Hertz" <dick.hertz@nospam.com> wrote in message ( news:3e884b15$1_1@hpb10302.boi.hp.com...I > Has anybody played with getting MySQL, open source database, running on2
 > OpenVMS? >o > If so, how does it look? >l >p# It is available, do a google search  +comp.os.vms +mysqli   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 20:35:48 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> Subject: Re: OPCOM debugging/ Message-ID: <3E878D47.6E00708E@vl.videotron.ca>:    Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote:1 > How about $ SEARCH SYS$SYSTEM:OPCOM.EXE "DEBUG"r9 > which shows "OPC$DEBUG_FILE:" and "OPC$DEBUG_TERMINAL:"m > Maybe it helps...a  M But if I need to restart OPCOM to have those logicals take effect, it sort ofaM defeats the purpose since when I restart it, I am pretty confident it will be 	 OK again.r   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 13:16:07 +0200m. From: Maarten van Tilburg <maartent@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: OPCOM debugging) Message-ID: <3E882377.BD345C1D@yahoo.com>D   JF Mezei wrote:  >  > "Mark E. Levy" wrote:E1 > > Are your terminals being set to /NOBROADCAST?9 > H > Tail between the legs, foot deeply into mouth, blushing out of extreme > embarassement !!!I >  > Thanks. That was it. > ) > Somehow, OPA0: was set to /NOBROADCAST.e > K > Suggestion to the VMS engineers: When one does a REPLY/STATUS, perhaps ite1 > could warn if the terminal is set /NOBROADCAST.  > N > I have to assume that perhaps I was in some editor or other itility that was> > abruptly cancelled and a temporary setting became permanent.  F I remember this happening on VAXstations, years ago. It had to do withC decwindows. Anyway, our standard system startup procedure contains:p   $!; $! in some cases decw$startup will set opa0: incorrectly toe
 /nobroadcast,M> $! preventing PCM to log any events. This is a workaround. MvT 31-jul-1996D $!) $ set terminal opa0: /broadcast/permanentr $!   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 13:57:16 GMT ( From: "Mark E. Levy" <mlevy70@attbi.com> Subject: Re: OPCOM debugging- Message-ID: <0PXha.278249$F1.48828@sccrnsc04>g  = "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message0( news:3E87C289.89A1146@vl.videotron.ca... > "Mark E. Levy" wrote: 1 > > Are your terminals being set to /NOBROADCAST?n >n >aH > Tail between the legs, foot deeply into mouth, blushing out of extreme > embarassement !!!D >@ > Thanks. That was it.  J Don't feel bad. The reason I suggested that you check that was because, at one time, it bit me too...   ML   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Mar 2003 10:35:25 -08001 From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski)5 Subject: OpenVMS Pearl March 31-= Message-ID: <857e9e41.0303311035.77ab227e@posting.google.com>0   Dear Newsgroup,i  < Just so you know Ken Farmer now has OpenVMS Pearls listed on openvms.org- here is today's Pearl.  
 Warm Regards,a sue>  : __________________________________________________________   Bangkok Post / March 26, 2003 ? HP says `get ready for 64-bit computing' / Announces its latestn AlphaServer systemsc By Tony Waltham C Hewlett Packard has told 150 of Thailand's top IT professionals how @ "adaptive infrastructure" would enable a dynamic optimisation ofF resources along with automated, intelligent management and continuous, secure operations.C Delegates at a recent seminar heard how this would deliver businesstB agility, while coupling business closer to technology for a better@ return on investment. The road show, featuring HP's top businessC critical solutions division's executives, also announced its latesteD AlphaServer systems, including the most powerful system to date, the
 model GS1280.oF But, although the day-long event was delivered in two tracks, one thatF addressed enterprise IT managers on the HP 9000 platform and the otherF for those managing AlphaServer or Non-stop server-based systems, there? was one underlying message: Itanium 64-bit computing is coming.nC While HP, the co-developer of this platform with Intel Corporation,-? was announcing the high-end AlphaServer GS1280 with a new, mostrE technically-advanced EV7 Alpha processor, it also announced its AlpharF Customer First programme, designed to ensure a smooth evolution to new& Itanium architecture-based HP servers.? HP Thailand's Enterprise Systems Group general manager Chirdsak2: Kukiattinun said: "HP is setting the standard for customerE satisfaction by delivering on its commitment to AlphaServer customersYD with the Alpha Customer First Programme, offering a smooth evolution to HP systems of the future." B In an interview, HP's manager for Operating Environment Marketing,F Business Critical Systems, Ross Templeton said later that migration to? the Itanium-based platform had been a decision made between theRE HP-Compaq merger, but that the timetable would be up to the customer.y2 "We are offering this, not enforcing it," he said.B Thailand now has one customer using the Itanium platform, which isE moving from the first wave of high-performance technical computing to D that of commercial business computing, according to HP's manager forB Server Product Marketing, Business Critical Systems Stephen Bacon.D HP was now working with ISVs and in-house developers on technologiesF for integration and manageability and automating this, while focussingF on investments on three key areas around HP's adaptive infrastructure.B These were dynamic resource optimisation, such as partitioning andD workload management and adding new non-stop capabilities to existingE environments, automated and intelligent management to enable businessAB agility, as well as ensuring continuous and secure operations thatE would enable businesses to be more tightly coupled to IT for a better- return on investment.YE The Itanium 64-bit architecture is still lacking applications, and sohA HP's current message is mostly about productivity on its existingL@ platforms, while promising business continuity during the comingB transition to the new platform, which will support HP-UX, Open-VMSB 2004, Non-Stop Kernel, Linux and Windows Server 2003 environments.F Mr Templeton also spoke of HP's utility data centre concept, whereby aE set of preinstalled, preloaded servers in racks and OpenView softwareXA were managed by "very smart software" that would allocate storage C dynamically across an entire data centre, where all the servers and  storage was pooled.nE He said that HP would be going public with a reference site in Europe A in the coming months, and while the concept had been designed for E outsourcing providers, it had resonated in some enterprises, he said.8A The HP executives explained that the Itanium platform appealed torF customers with large databases or file systems and in situations whereF large memory addressability gave better performance, such as in supplyF chain management solutions, as well as where FPU (floating point unit)* performance or parallelism were paramount.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 11:59:00 +0100o' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK ConsultancyiY Subject: Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marveland Alpha RetaiB. Message-ID: <3E881F74.3010400@nospamn.sun.com>   Main, Kerry wrote: > Andrew, Andrew ..  > A > <<< But Oracle applications performance wasn't one of them. >>>- > J > So, are you saying that these GS Series Customers with Oracle Financials/ > never considered performance as a criteria???D > A > Come on, you can do better fud than that .. Lets not get silly.E > . > While a tad dated now, here are some quotes:= > http://h18002.www1.hp.com/alphaserver/gs/quotes/oracle.htmlE >   7 So you have some nice sounding testimonials from OracleT; execs, in return for your porting and joint marketing fees.A  ; Incedentally they arn't very current, one of the two Oracle = products headlined is Oracle 8i which is in maintenance mode,1 9i is the current DBMS.i  8 Does this mean that Oracle are fully endorsing customers9 who want to run 8i on GS boxes but are less interested in  9i.-  4 What a idiotic web page to use a collateral. Par for the course though.   regardsl Andrew Harrisonc  	 > Regardsn >  >  > Kerry Main > Senior Consultant5 > Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.# > Consulting & Integration Servicesn > Voice: 613-592-4660i > Fax   : 613-591-4477 > Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom/ >     (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s) ! > OpenVMS DCL - the original .COM  >  > -----Original Message-----) > From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancyo1 > [mailto:Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com] i > Sent: March 28, 2003 11:24 AMA > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComrE > Subject: Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for J > Marveland Alpha Retain Trust Alpha Retain Trust Alpha Retain Trust AlphaG > Retain Trust Alpha Retain Trust Alpha Retain Trust Alpha Retain Trust ' > Alpha Retain Trust Alpha Retain Trust  >  >  >  >  > jlsue wrote: > H >>On Thu, 27 Mar 2003 10:30:31 +0000, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy 0 >><Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote: >> >> >> >>>Fred Kleinsorge wrote:l >>>e >>>oI >>>>Can we just wrap this all up in a shorthand format, or do we have to   >>>>go through the ritual. >>>>F >>>>Sun:   Benchmarks don't mean anything, especially the ones we look >>>e	 > bad on.0 > I >>>>Guy:  Well, how about actual performance stories from real customers.. >>>%  >>>Sun: Well where are they thenG >>>Guy: Ahh well thats a bit tricky how about Bank of Austria instead ?0 >>>Sun: Sorry bzzt.C >>>R >> >>G >>Yeah.  You're sorry because you can't contradict that story with any l
 >>real facts.  >>G >>The article stands on it's own as proof that there are customers who 09 >>use the GS160 with Oracle Financials - your proverbial  G >>transaction-oriented workloads - even though you claim that it can't C
 >>be true. >  > 5 > Sure there are but Bank of Austria isn't one, theirE5 > reference is for Wall Street not Oracle Financials.0 >  > Did you actually read it ??? > 9 > And I am sure that there are Oracle Financials users on 5 > GS servers but they didn't select the boxes because3  > of their performance did they. > - > Could have been one of a number of reasons.v >  > Perfered supplier. > Trashed margins. > Right colour box.u > 0 > But Oracle applications performance wasn't one
 > of them. > 	 > regardsn > Andrew Harrisona >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 07:24:11 -0500-' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>dY Subject: RE: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marveland Alpha Retai T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4040ECF33@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Andrew, Andrew ..A  / <<< Incedentally they arn't very current, ...>>d  H Of course, I stated that in my response "While a tad dated now, here are
 some quotes:"7  G The initial GS Series servers are about 4-5 years old right now and are B replaced by the Marvel EV7 systems last year. That earlier quote IH supplied shows what Oracle thought of the original GS Series servers.=20  A Question - How many benchmarks have Sun done lately on the UE10K?V  C And by the way - the majority of Oracle Customers are still at some ) version of 8.x - but you knew that right?C  B Now, if you want current GS Series performance numbers, check out:J http://www.sap.com/benchmark/index.asp?content=3Dhttp://www.sap.com/bench= m- ark/sd2tier.asp   5 Sun Fire 15000 (72 cpus) -  1,789,000 dialog steps/hrF5 HP GS 1280 (32 cpu's)    -  1,393,000 dialog steps/hrV  E So, given that Oracle charges per cpu, it looks to me that the new GSdH Series servers are doing ok with respect to price / performance..keep in5 mind the 64cpu version of the 1280 is coming as well.e   :-)    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant" Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.! Consulting & Integration Servicess Voice: 613-592-4660l Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom-     (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s)l OpenVMS DCL - the original .COM.   -----Original Message-----' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK ConsultancyO1 [mailto:Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com]=20e Sent: March 31, 2003 5:59 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.CombC Subject: Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release fornH Marveland Alpha Retain Trust Alpha Retain Trust Alpha Retain Trust AlphaE Retain Trust Alpha Retain Trust Alpha Retain Trust Alpha Retain Trust-5 Alpha Retain Trust Alpha Retain Trust Alpha Retain Trm         Main, Kerry wrote: > Andrew, Andrew ..: >=20A > <<< But Oracle applications performance wasn't one of them. >>>  >=20B > So, are you saying that these GS Series Customers with Oracle=20: > Financials never considered performance as a criteria??? >=20A > Come on, you can do better fud than that .. Lets not get silly.o >=201 > While a tad dated now, here are some quotes:=20 = > http://h18002.www1.hp.com/alphaserver/gs/quotes/oracle.htmlg >=20  7 So you have some nice sounding testimonials from OracleV; execs, in return for your porting and joint marketing fees.-  D Incedentally they arn't very current, one of the two Oracle productsF headlined is Oracle 8i which is in maintenance mode, 9i is the current DBMS.e  8 Does this mean that Oracle are fully endorsing customers9 who want to run 8i on GS boxes but are less interested in  9i.6  4 What a idiotic web page to use a collateral. Par for the course though.   regards  Andrew Harrisona  	 > Regardss >=20 >=20 > Kerry Main > Senior Consultants > Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.# > Consulting & Integration Services  > Voice: 613-592-4660  > Fax   : 613-591-4477 > Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom/ >     (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s)o! > OpenVMS DCL - the original .COMw >=20 > -----Original Message-----, > From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy=200 > [mailto:Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com] > Sent: March 28, 2003 11:24 AM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.CompH > Subject: Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for=20G > Marveland Alpha Retain Trust Alpha Retain Trust Alpha Retain Trust=20 J > Alpha Retain Trust Alpha Retain Trust Alpha Retain Trust Alpha Retain=20- > Trust Alpha Retain Trust Alpha Retain Trustr >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > jlsue wrote: >=20G >>On Thu, 27 Mar 2003 10:30:31 +0000, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy 0 >><Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote: >> >> >> >>>Fred Kleinsorge wrote:s >>>  >>>.H >>>>Can we just wrap this all up in a shorthand format, or do we have to >>>>go through the ritual. >>>>F >>>>Sun:   Benchmarks don't mean anything, especially the ones we look >>> 	 > bad on.s >=20A >>>>Guy:  Well, how about actual performance stories from real=20a >>>>customers. >>>a  >>>Sun: Well where are they thenG >>>Guy: Ahh well thats a bit tricky how about Bank of Austria instead ?5 >>>Sun: Sorry bzzt.C >>>h >> >>F >>Yeah.  You're sorry because you can't contradict that story with any
 >>real facts.p >>F >>The article stands on it's own as proof that there are customers who; >>use the GS160 with Oracle Financials - your proverbial=20yI >>transaction-oriented workloads - even though you claim that it can't=20t
 >>be true. >=20 >=205 > Sure there are but Bank of Austria isn't one, theiru5 > reference is for Wall Street not Oracle Financials.e >=20 > Did you actually read it ??? >=209 > And I am sure that there are Oracle Financials users ond5 > GS servers but they didn't select the boxes because   > of their performance did they. >=20- > Could have been one of a number of reasons.- >=20 > Perfered supplier. > Trashed margins. > Right colour box.r >=200 > But Oracle applications performance wasn't one
 > of them. >=20	 > regards3 > Andrew Harrisonr >=20   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 15:12:39 GMTn& From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net>Y Subject: Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marveland Alpha Retaie8 Message-ID: <54jg8vk84a3nuv0s5br7tn323gc8uimt13@4ax.com>  E On Fri, 28 Mar 2003 16:24:18 +0000, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancyf. <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote:     >> oG >> The article stands on it's own as proof that there are customers who 9 >> use the GS160 with Oracle Financials - your proverbialrG >> transaction-oriented workloads - even though you claim that it can'te >> be true.i >,4 >Sure there are but Bank of Austria isn't one, their4 >reference is for Wall Street not Oracle Financials.  D Um... they are apparently happy enough with it to standardize on it.F Or do you have some evidence or proof that that statement is not true?  8 >And I am sure that there are Oracle Financials users on4 >GS servers but they didn't select the boxes because >of their performance did they.c  E I don't assume to know more than what's in the article.  It says that D they are happy with it.  That's enough for a counter-argument to the> argument that you've been espousing that it's not good enough.   > , >Could have been one of a number of reasons. >  >Perfered supplier.U >Trashed margins.  >Right colour box. >2/ >But Oracle applications performance wasn't onet	 >of them.B  C And you know this how?  You talk as if you have real information onk6 this, but you offer nothing but your own conjecture.    C The question is NOT how it performs compared to other vendors.  Thed@ question is "does it provide the service level that the businessE requires."  That's the question that business really cares about, and A apparenlty it must provide the service level, or they wouldn't beO buying more of them.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 15:22:10 +0100 ' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy.Y Subject: Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marveland Alpha Retaif. Message-ID: <3E884F12.1050309@nospamn.sun.com>   Main, Kerry wrote: > Andrew, Andrew ..a > 1 > <<< Incedentally they arn't very current, ...>>t > J > Of course, I stated that in my response "While a tad dated now, here are > some quotes:"a >   % A tad dated, 8i is in maintence mode.i  I > The initial GS Series servers are about 4-5 years old right now and arerD > replaced by the Marvel EV7 systems last year. That earlier quote IH > supplied shows what Oracle thought of the original GS Series servers.  > C > Question - How many benchmarks have Sun done lately on the UE10K?e >   < None, but then the GS 320 has only just been replaced by the< GS1280 and you wern't exactly churning out benchmarks before it were you.  A The last benchmark of any significance that was published for thee= GS320 was your TPC-C result which was submitted on 18/06/2001a+ over a year before the GS1280 announcement.       E > And by the way - the majority of Oracle Customers are still at someh+ > version of 8.x - but you knew that right?r >   = The majority of existing DBMS's are on 8i but most of the newt: installs are 9i which you know. Mainly because Oracle Apps5 Seibel, PeopleSoft etc's current versions all use 9i.   8 In this respect the page and your response neatly sum up8 the market position of the GS. Keep it run your existing* apps on it but for the new stuff ?????????  @ It also tends to confirm the pessimistic views of your customers: who seem less than enamoured by HP's strategy for OpenVMS.  4 Shame that you had to slap them in the face as well.    D > Now, if you want current GS Series performance numbers, check out:J > http://www.sap.com/benchmark/index.asp?content=http://www.sap.com/benchm > ark/sd2tier.asp9 > 7 > Sun Fire 15000 (72 cpus) -  1,789,000 dialog steps/hr17 > HP GS 1280 (32 cpu's)    -  1,393,000 dialog steps/hr  >   A We have had this discussion before if you remember you are trying.= to defend your GS160/320 performance BS. Trying to do so withU; the GS1280 SAP benchmark results only proves that you don'te@ have any confidence that you can muster up a convincing argument  in support of the older systems.  # In other words more performance BS.T  ? And as I said earlier you have had a decade of Alpha is best BSn> unsupported by any collareral thats relevant so publishing one; 3rd placed SAP result for a system you arn't shipping until 4 the end of this year (16 CPU's is the maximum at the( moment) is hardly grounds for rejoicing.  : When you can ship a 32 way box then get back to the group.   Regardsb Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 17:46:19 GMTt& From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net>Y Subject: Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marveland Alpha Retaia8 Message-ID: <0asg8v4d853ofk91tqk6jbdiort8v6mr8c@4ax.com>  E On Mon, 31 Mar 2003 11:59:00 +0100, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy0. <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote:   >  >j >Main, Kerry wrote:s   >> aK >> So, are you saying that these GS Series Customers with Oracle FinancialsD0 >> never considered performance as a criteria??? >> oB >> Come on, you can do better fud than that .. Lets not get silly. >>  / >> While a tad dated now, here are some quotes:c> >> http://h18002.www1.hp.com/alphaserver/gs/quotes/oracle.html >> d > 8 >So you have some nice sounding testimonials from Oracle< >execs, in return for your porting and joint marketing fees. >.< >Incedentally they arn't very current, one of the two Oracle> >products headlined is Oracle 8i which is in maintenance mode, >9i is the current DBMS.  B But the point is still that there are testimonials to counter your> argument that the GS160/320 is not scalable enough for runningE transaction/database systems.  Apparently in the real world there are " ample examples of happy customers.   >S9 >Does this mean that Oracle are fully endorsing customersq: >who want to run 8i on GS boxes but are less interested in >9i.  E Now, why would it have to mean that?  It means that you are incorrect=D if you assert that Oracle apps do not perform well on the GS160/320.   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Mar 2003 07:36:38 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)D" Subject: Re: Overuse of LIB$SPAWN?3 Message-ID: <uufOl9d14X18@eisner.encompasserve.org>_  r In article <7112dd15.0303281605.59583e8b@posting.google.com>, texascheryl@hotmail.com (Cheryl Hoefelmeyer) writes:
 > Hi, all,F > My colleagues at my present place of work are almost all new to VMS,F > and I am trying to teach them various useful things that I know. OneF > thing they always seem to want to do rather than learn to use systemH > calls within programs is to spawn a subprocess and issue DCL commands.F > For example, they would rather spawn a subprocess to call SORT/MERGED > than use the utility inside a program. I have never seen this doneG > anywhere else, so I suspect it's not a good idea to spawn unnecessarycF > subprocesses right and left, but I don't know if this is so, or why.E > So, does it matter whether a system routine is called from within ah( > program or if a subprocess is spawned?  H    VMS is notedly slow at creating processes.  It's not as bad under VMSF    7.3 on a new Alpha, but if you loaded Tru64 on that Alpha you could    measure the difference.  A    In any case they are going through unecessary inefficiency andE=    possibly creating code with built in maintenance problems:i  H    If you call the routines directory you take the overhead of a routineE    call, and return, then you need to examine the output data and/or eB    return values as documented with the routine (and therefor not     likely to change).3  H    If you spawn a DCL command you take the overhead of a routine call toE    lib$span (or similar), mailbox creation, process creation, mailboxaB    I/O, DCL parsing, image start, a call to the routine you reallyC    wanted, a return, image winddown, mailbox I/O, process winddown,0E    mailbox deltion, and return from lib$spawn.  The you get to figuresE    out if lib$spawn has the status you needed, and parse output whichp@    might not be fully docuemnted (and therefor subject to future    change).4      Ouch.  F    The latter is accebpatble for a once or twice used hack, the former*    should be used for all production code.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 16:15:42 GMTw& From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net>" Subject: Re: Overuse of LIB$SPAWN?8 Message-ID: <ormg8vo987oa396t8080gtitofgpkqdh2u@4ax.com>  > On 28 Mar 2003 16:05:07 -0800, texascheryl@hotmail.com (Cheryl Hoefelmeyer) wrote:m  	 >Hi, all, E >My colleagues at my present place of work are almost all new to VMS,uE >and I am trying to teach them various useful things that I know. One-E >thing they always seem to want to do rather than learn to use system@G >calls within programs is to spawn a subprocess and issue DCL commands. E >For example, they would rather spawn a subprocess to call SORT/MERGEcC >than use the utility inside a program. I have never seen this donepF >anywhere else, so I suspect it's not a good idea to spawn unnecessaryE >subprocesses right and left, but I don't know if this is so, or why.aD >So, does it matter whether a system routine is called from within a' >program or if a subprocess is spawned?s >e  F Depending on what kind of programming they are doing, another approachD is to use DCL procedure to drive the program.  For example, if  this? is batch processing, then instead of a single, monolithic batchfE program, split the code into more discrete parts execute the discreten parts via the .com procedure.   C An example  .com procedure could have something like the following:t   $ step1:
 $  run prog a  $  sort a.out b.in $ step2:
 $  run prog bm $  sort b.out c.in $ step3:
 $  run prog cg $  print c.out  C This makes the management of the code a bit easier in some cases byu> keeping each discrete sections in separate modules that may be' re-used/executed by other jobs as well.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 09:51:40 +0200 4 From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr>5 Subject: Poka Yoke on loppy drive flat cable is wrong & Message-ID: <3E87F38C.1020206@Free.fr>  M in an AlphaStation 250, the pokayoke of the floppy drive is upside down. The dL piece of plastic is upwards and the hole where it should fit is downwards...   :-(    D.  K PS to French speaking people : comment on dit "dtrompeur" en anglais ? :-)d   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 17:22:46 +0100b0 From: Chris Sharman <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam>8 Subject: Re: RMS Tune Check (was High RMS file activity)4 Message-ID: <b69q0q$c60$3$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>   Hein wrote:tV > Still, for grins, run my rms_tune_check (script in the .txt file) on a critical disk  > or two and send me the output?T > It has not been used that much and I am still collecting feedback as to how to set > some knobs/rules.    Some feedback for you:H Some 'BUG!!' messages below. Apart from the zinco.msaf$cat file (pw/mac F stuff) these are mostly busy files, which don't show errors via other D programs, although they were almost certainly open for write at the H time. All apart from zinco had several screenfuls of identical errors - I I've just shown a few. If you'd like to see the files, or more detail, I t can supply.   F Nice alert to massively duplicated key values - will be using that to   fix a few (with null keys, etc).   Also, we do: $ anal/rms/fdl* $ edi/fdl/nointer/gran=double/emph=smaller
 $ conv/fdl on a weekly basis.I Still I see a lot of 'suggestions' & on a Monday morning too (just after >1 the tune). Typically on large files: ~2M records.eF We have fairly big clusters (9k on 9G disks) - compatibility hangover.E Should I have smaller clusters, or different tuning, or are the file c sizes a problem ?s    $1$DKA500:[OTHER]DESPATCH.DAT;310 - BUG!! Bad record flag 3 at byte 49 in bucket 41 - BUG!! Bad record flag 3 at byte 49 in bucket 16e1 - BUG!! Bad record flag 3 at byte 49 in bucket 28p1 - BUG!! Bad record flag 3 at byte 49 in bucket 52o $2$DKB102:[COE]DESPATCH.DAT;155l0 - BUG!! Bad record flag 3 at byte 49 in bucket 41 - BUG!! Bad record flag 3 at byte 49 in bucket 18r1 - BUG!! Bad record flag 3 at byte 49 in bucket 32a1 - BUG!! Bad record flag 3 at byte 49 in bucket 46 * $2$DKB202:[COE.TRAIN.DATA]HELDORDERS.DAT;1: - ROOT:  Primary key index root level is high: 2 (goal=1).= - ROOT: Alternate key 1 index root level is high: 2 (goal=1).-= - ROOT: Alternate key 3 index root level is high: 2 (goal=1).e2 - BUG!! Bad record flag 0 at byte 476 in bucket 12& $2$DKB202:[MAC.SYSTEM]ZINCO.MSAF$CAT;1: - ROOT:  Primary key index root level is high: 2 (goal=1).4 - BUG!! Bad record flag 0 at byte 227 in bucket 2179" $2$DKB204:[AD.DATA]DESPATCH.DAT;420 - BUG!! Bad record flag 3 at byte 49 in bucket 41 - BUG!! Bad record flag 3 at byte 49 in bucket 15>1 - BUG!! Bad record flag 3 at byte 49 in bucket 37s1 - BUG!! Bad record flag 3 at byte 49 in bucket 48n   Thanks,  Chrism   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 12:08:14 -0500p9 From: Hein van den Heuvel <hein_netscape@eps.zko.dec.com> 8 Subject: Re: RMS Tune Check (was High RMS file activity)/ Message-ID: <3E8875FD.A8EEEC21@eps.zko.dec.com>t   Chris Sharman wrote:  
 > Hein wrote:dX > > Still, for grins, run my rms_tune_check (script in the .txt file) on a critical disk" > > or two and send me the output?V > > It has not been used that much and I am still collecting feedback as to how to set > > some knobs/rules.r > 5 > Some feedback for you. Some 'BUG!!' messages below.o  " > $1$DKA500:[OTHER]DESPATCH.DAT;312 > - BUG!! Bad record flag 3 at byte 49 in bucket 4  N Send me an anal/rms/fdl output for the file in question to hein_at_hp_dot_com.: Also include a 1 block DUMP of one sampel VBN complaining?: I may have missed a compression/record_format combination.= I may have also snuck in a last minute bug before submitting.tU A record flags byte of 3 woudl be bad, but I assume the code got sidetracked earlier.aY Offset 49 is very earlier in the bucket, so the first record must have confused the code.e
 We'll see.    G > Nice alert to massively duplicated key values - will be using that tob" > fix a few (with null keys, etc).  # Show us an example or two? How bad?e< (Btw... it has to be pretty darn bad to quilify for a prize.A We have 4104 buckets of dups for one value as the winner so far).=   > Also, we do: > $ anal/rms/fdl, > $ edi/fdl/nointer/gran=double/emph=smaller > $ conv/fdl > on a weekly basis.  ; Hmm, I've never heard of anyone using that edit/fdl option.M@ Most folks have their buckets too small, but small may be betterV for some high contention sitiations. As long as you index trees do not get too deep...  ( Imho a full anal/RMS is a waste of time.> Just feed last weeks convert record count into this weeks fdl.: You may want to perform anal/rms on the old files / backup; just to make sure you do not have a silent data corruption,sM but that would be a background job not in the prime backup/reorganize window.    >tJ > Still I see a lot of 'suggestions' & on a Monday morning too (just after3 > the tune). Typically on large files: ~2M records.IH > We have fairly big clusters (9k on 9G disks) - compatibility hangover.F > Should I have smaller clusters, or different tuning, or are the file > sizes a problem ?   K It my be phylosophy/approach. Index tree depth often, but not always, hurtseM more than contention / over-sized buckets. Also, the tree depth advise is the-7 most crude one in the tool and may well need more work.:; You are right to treat it as just a suggestions, a warning.dV The intent is to make you look at that file and decide whether the warming applies, or: whether there is a good reason for the index to be higher.   Cheers,m	     Hein.T   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 15:13:52 GMTu+ From: "David Pikcilingis" <dcpik@attbi.com>i/ Subject: Re: SET NOTRUNCATE - Command referenceb- Message-ID: <QWYha.278555$L1.78299@sccrnsc02>   K A PDF version of the manual for EDT+, an EDT emulator for UNIX and Windows,U0 might be useful as a reference for EDT commands.  1 It is located at www.bosbc.com/documents/edt7.pdfd  F "Phillip Helbig" <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message5 news:01KU29W76SOIA9LL1B@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com... I > > I had some exposure to VMS on a VAX 11/750 in college.  Now thanks toDI > > the hobbyist program and acquiring a VAXstation 3100 M76 I'm becomingQK > > reacquainted with an old friend, VMS.  I've been trying out the various L > > editors trying to decide which one I liked.  Mostly I've been using LSE.F > > Thanks to the editor war thread I've discovered the SET NOTRUNCATE+ > > function of EDT and I think I'm hooked.n >n@ > Let us all rejoice as another brother has seen the light!  :-) >4J > I have found the standard manuals to be good tutorials.  EDT is probably > under "archived manuals".2   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Mar 2003 07:38:54 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)-< Subject: Re: SIMH Emulation of VAX KA650-A, KA650-B, KA655-A3 Message-ID: <AJGjjMc3NYA$@eisner.encompasserve.org>:  Z In article <b640o3$1brfo$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>, "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> writes: > K > Not sure whether I understand the question, but a 3400 has no native DSSIO > like a 4300.      Mine did.  Disks, too.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 09:55:00 -0800 * From: "Jack Peacock" <peacock@simconv.com>< Subject: Re: SIMH Emulation of VAX KA650-A, KA650-B, KA655-A2 Message-ID: <KT6dnf4Zw45oHRWjXTWcqw@mpowercom.net>  H "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:AJGjjMc3NYA$@eisner.encompasserve.org...DD > In article <b640o3$1brfo$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>, "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> writes:r > >iH > > Not sure whether I understand the question, but a 3400 has no native DSSI > > like a 4300. >fK I thought the MVax 3300/3400 used a KA640 CPU board, with onboard DSSI.  AsAI I recall it had a riser on the top edge of the board and would not fit inn9 older BA23 type boxes, unlike the KA650 in the 3500/3600.m   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 11:06:01 -0500mA From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star-dot-zko-dot-dec-dot-com>oS Subject: Re: Slowest ALpha ever (was: Re: LCD panel, 500au, ELSA Gloria Card, How?).. Message-ID: <3e88676a$1_1@hpb10302.boi.hp.com>  K The AlphaBook when the temp rises too high, is the slowest.  Trust me.  Andi? it isn't that fast (compared to todays systems) when it's cool.o  K The Multia is pretty slow.  I have a couple, and don't use them.  The AS200a: ("Mustang") is pretty old, and by todays standards crawls.      < "Chris Scheers" <chris@applied-synergy.com> wrote in message- news:3E83C2FB.DD1619DD@applied-synergy.com...  > John Santos wrote: > >1B > > I ask because I'm interested in getting a "better" card for myG > > old, slow, but trusty AlphaStation 200 4/100.  (Is this the slowestvB > > Alpha ever made?)  Actually, I have two of these, more-or-lessG > > identical, one running DEC Unix (at work) and one running VMS 7.3-1e > > (at home, hobbyist). > C > I think that that slowest Alpha would probably be the Multia/UDB. B > Technically, the clock is faster at 166MHz, but the chip is less > effective. >-0 > A side by side benchmark would be interesting. >mI > -----------------------------------------------------------------------h& > Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc. >2D > Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com >   Fax: 817-237-3074e   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 17:53:17 +0100>' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy_Y Subject: Re: Slowest ALpha ever (was: Re: LCD panel, 500au, ELSA Gloria Card, How?) How?)t, Message-ID: <3E88727D.70105@nospamn.sun.com>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:M > The AlphaBook when the temp rises too high, is the slowest.  Trust me.  AndnA > it isn't that fast (compared to todays systems) when it's cool.n >   3 I assume you are refering to the Tadpole AlphaBook.e  9 The magnesium alloy case was very neat at the time and ons: a cold day it kept your knees and hands if you rested them# on it at a nice toasty temperature.u   regardst Andrew Harrisono   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 08:19:07 -0700l+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com>,; Subject: Re: Space Invaders was: Re: Fortran Guru requested0' Message-ID: <3E885C6B.9010300@MMaz.com>d   > PRSTSC::DTL wrote: > G >> I encounter some trouble porting a fortran/vax program to Alpha (no h: >> warnings at compile time, either with or without /F77): >> >> $ run spcinvn >> ../.. >>? >> %SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation, reason mask=00, virtual v >> address=000000000000i) >> 0030, PC=FFFFFFFF808E5380, PS=0000001Bh2 >> %TRACE-F-TRACEBACK, symbolic stack dump followsG >>   image    module    routine             line      rel PC           r	 >> abs PCrB >>                                             0 0000000000000000  >> FFFFFFFF808E5380.B >>  SPCINV  INVADERS  SLEEP                  141 0000000000000ADC  >> 0000000000030ADC B >>  SPCINV  INVADERS  SPECIAL_GRAPHIC        579 0000000000002BB8  >> 0000000000032BB8hB >>  SPCINV  INVADERS  MOVE                    42 00000000000003D0  >> 00000000000303D0 B >>  SPCINV  INVADERS  INVADERS                27 0000000000000000  >> 0000000000000000aB >>                                             0 FFFFFFFF802513D4  >> FFFFFFFF802513D4n >>$ >> 132         SUBROUTINE SLEEP(TAG)I >> 133 C       Set timer and wait for TAG seconds.  TAG is a CHARACTER*5  	 >> string G >> 134 C       of the form ##.##, which is the seconds, and hundredths c >> of seconds.A >> 135 C       To delay game for 5 seconds, TAG would be '05.00'.r' >> 136         IMPLICIT INTEGER*4 (A-Z) " >> 137         EXTERNAL SS$_NORMAL$ >> 138         DOUBLE PRECISION TIME+ >> 139         CHARACTER DELTA_TIME*9,TAG*5e >> 140D >> 141         DELTA_TIME='0 ::'//TAG          !Concatenate strings.H >> 142         RET_STAT=SYS$BINTIM(DELTA_TIME,TIME)    !ASCII to binary  >> time.C >> 143         IF(RET_STAT.NE.%LOC(SS$_NORMAL))STOP'BINTIM failed.'eI >> 144         RET_STAT=SYS$SETIMR(,TIME,,)            !Set timer, event m
 >> flag 0.C >> 145         IF(RET_STAT.NE.%LOC(SS$_NORMAL))STOP'SETIMR failed.' H >> 146         RET_STAT=SYS$WAITFR(%VAL(0))            !Wait for flag 0 
 >> to be set.eC >> 147         IF(RET_STAT.NE.%LOC(SS$_NORMAL))STOP'WAITFR failed.'l >> 148         RETURN  >> 149         END >>$ Try to recompile with /NOOPTIMIZE...   Barryg   -- a  @ Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIO   A E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 02:22:25 -0400V0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>3 Subject: Re: Structure of  the TCPIP Services group / Message-ID: <3E87DE6D.B9CAF54C@vl.videotron.ca>e   "John Gemignani, Jr." wrote: > surrounded- > by women fanning me and feeding me grapes. t  N Sorry, that description is not compatible with a computer geek.  Geeks work inD the basement with cluttered desks, lots of cola cans around etc etc.  M > The person in Australia worked in the group on an international relocation.h  L Ahhh, so he is alone there ? Nobody to make sure he actually shows up at theG office ? So for all we know, he really does spend his days surfing on aa+ surfboard instead of surfing the net... :-)b  J > We don't have any "groups" of people in any one location except the main > groupe  M What about the ex ALL-IN-1 folks in Reading who have "joined" in ? Would theylM be an official "group" or do you consider them to be individuals who are just-K away from Massassuchets ? Or are they still totally separate from the TCPIPi+ group and just donate stuff to your group ?o  M So, who does the testing/integration of all the stuff done by separate people  around the world ?  N For instance, would anyone have ever tested the SLIP interface on TCPIP 5.3 onK vax ? Or was I the first one to try it ? (it consistently crashes the wholea system when you SET INTERFACE)  D Just curious about the dynamics of a geographically dispersed group.  L Anbd more importantly, for those who are away from Mass. how can Sue control and discipline those guys ?o   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 17:44:55 GMTE; From: "John Gemignani, Jr." <jon-nope@thiswontworkossc.net>l3 Subject: Re: Structure of  the TCPIP Services groupt= Message-ID: <r8%ha.24144$TW2.4122399@news1.news.adelphia.net>t  = "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in messagec) news:3E87DE6D.B9CAF54C@vl.videotron.ca...t > "John Gemignani, Jr." wrote: > > surrounded. > > by women fanning me and feeding me grapes. >eH > Sorry, that description is not compatible with a computer geek.  Geeks work ineF > the basement with cluttered desks, lots of cola cans around etc etc. > C > > The person in Australia worked in the group on an internationalI relocation.r >eJ > Ahhh, so he is alone there ? Nobody to make sure he actually shows up at themI > office ? So for all we know, he really does spend his days surfing on ag- > surfboard instead of surfing the net... :-)  >mL > > We don't have any "groups" of people in any one location except the main	 > > group  >eJ > What about the ex ALL-IN-1 folks in Reading who have "joined" in ? Would theyJ > be an official "group" or do you consider them to be individuals who are justG > away from Massassuchets ? Or are they still totally separate from ther TCPIPh- > group and just donate stuff to your group ?a >TH > So, who does the testing/integration of all the stuff done by separate people > around the world ? >HI > For instance, would anyone have ever tested the SLIP interface on TCPIP: 5.3 onG > vax ? Or was I the first one to try it ? (it consistently crashes thel whole   > system when you SET INTERFACE) > F > Just curious about the dynamics of a geographically dispersed group. >nF > Anbd more importantly, for those who are away from Mass. how can Sue controlc > and discipline those guys ?e  F Oh, I see that there's a motive here.  I mistakenly took it to be justJ curiosity, and thought that it would be useful for the c.o.v. community to  know a bit more about the group.   I see that I was mistaken.  F It doesn't matter how many smileys you put in your posts as they don't' change their increasingly hostile tone.o  E In closing, I want to tell you that you will not find a group of moretK dedicated and capable engineers.  I do not think about what someone else is I doing, or if they are doing their job.  I KNOW that they are making theirsK contribution just as I am.  We work very well together, globally as well as J locally.  We use our product to connect in and work from several locationsF to achieve a common goal.  If you feel that you cannot TRUST a peer orK subordinate in your organization, then it brings us back to one of your ownl comments (also with a smiley):       "I would fear for my job."  A Needless to say, I will not be responding further to this thread.r  K Dan Foster - thanks for chiming in to show that such an organization works.:J It must be awful to continuously be suspicious of your colleagues at work.   -Johnv   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 12:14:21 +0100B' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancya Subject: Re: Suggestion to Sue. Message-ID: <3E88230D.4090808@nospamn.sun.com>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:$ > I'm not entirely sure what to say. >   J > I'd rather Andrew just go away, or be replaced with someone who has moreM > technical depth, in his thinly disguised Sun sales function.  I'd rather JFsH > and Bill tone down their rhetoric (and take their political threads toN > another soapbox).  But aside from raised blood pressure on occasion, I don'tN > think I have a desire to use the persuader in the office next door (a nice 29 > inch diameter, rubber clad copper wire) on any of them.  >   5 Ohh dear, more Andrew is a sales person I am a humblec. and therefore always correct engineer Fred BS.  2 When you stick to your area of capability and stop4 venturing out into areas that you clearly don't have/ much of a clue about then you will stop gettingl responses from me.  2 If the definition of a sales person is someone who3 is prepared to take a possition on a subject he hast5 little or no technical understanding of then Fred oldn4 bean you have hung yourself out to dry so many times that you must be on commision.   regardsa Andrew Harrison.  L > It's a tough time in the world, and a tough time in our industry - for all< > of us.  I'd rather we spent our energy on positive things. >  > 3 > "Daniel Allen" <dallen@nist.gov> wrote in messagei6 > news:BCEGLBGJDODLELBJIADKOEJBCGAA.dallen@nist.gov... >  >> >>>-----Original Message-----p: >>>From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca]* >>>Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2003 3:17 PM >>>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >>>Subject: Suggestion to Suea >>>u >>>p? >>>For your upcoming technical seminar, you should have an openi >>>plenary sessionD >>>with Fred Kleinsorge and Andrew Harrison starting a verbal battle >>>and then you 3 >>>supply them with foam bats and let them go nuts.  >>7 >>I personally think Fred's bat should be good old ash.> >> >>Dan  >>C >>>Although this would have no technical value, it would have greatc >>>entertainment >>>value :-) :-) :-) >>>i >>>:-) :-)  :-) :-), >> >  >    ------------------------------    Date: 31 Mar 2003 07:05:12 -08001 From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski)w Subject: Re: Suggestion to Sue= Message-ID: <857e9e41.0303310705.18ca1416@posting.google.com>l  8 If you two don't behave you are going to get a spanking.   suen   Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<3E88230D.4090808@nospamn.sun.com>...  > Fred Kleinsorge wrote:& > > I'm not entirely sure what to say. > >  >  oL > > I'd rather Andrew just go away, or be replaced with someone who has moreO > > technical depth, in his thinly disguised Sun sales function.  I'd rather JF J > > and Bill tone down their rhetoric (and take their political threads toP > > another soapbox).  But aside from raised blood pressure on occasion, I don'tP > > think I have a desire to use the persuader in the office next door (a nice 2; > > inch diameter, rubber clad copper wire) on any of them.r > >  > 7 > Ohh dear, more Andrew is a sales person I am a humbler0 > and therefore always correct engineer Fred BS. > 4 > When you stick to your area of capability and stop6 > venturing out into areas that you clearly don't have1 > much of a clue about then you will stop getting  > responses from me. > 4 > If the definition of a sales person is someone who5 > is prepared to take a possition on a subject he hasp7 > little or no technical understanding of then Fred olds6 > bean you have hung yourself out to dry so many times  > that you must be on commision. > 	 > regardsU > Andrew Harrison> > N > > It's a tough time in the world, and a tough time in our industry - for all> > > of us.  I'd rather we spent our energy on positive things. > >  > > 5 > > "Daniel Allen" <dallen@nist.gov> wrote in message:8 > > news:BCEGLBGJDODLELBJIADKOEJBCGAA.dallen@nist.gov... > >  > >> > >>>-----Original Message----- < > >>>From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca], > >>>Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2003 3:17 PM > >>>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > >>>Subject: Suggestion to Suet > >>>  > >>> A > >>>For your upcoming technical seminar, you should have an open  > >>>plenary sessionF > >>>with Fred Kleinsorge and Andrew Harrison starting a verbal battle > >>>and then youo5 > >>>supply them with foam bats and let them go nuts.  > >>9 > >>I personally think Fred's bat should be good old ash.u > >> > >>Danc > >>E > >>>Although this would have no technical value, it would have greato > >>>entertainment > >>>value :-) :-) :-) > >>>l > >>>:-) :-)  :-) :-)  > >> > >  > >r   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 12:07:51 +0100d' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy / Subject: Re: Sun unix/linux new nasty bug cert! . Message-ID: <3E882187.5090606@nospamn.sun.com>   Bob Ceculski wrote:s > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<3E833635.4060807@nospamn.sun.com>...  > D >>>as you read below, it is not as many "c" and unix garbage library@ >>>bugs fail to affect vms as those pesky little "accvio" errors8 >>>stop you in your tracks ... remember this one Andrew? >>>  >>? >>http://www.process.com/techsupport/tcpware/faqs/snmpcert.htmlu >>; >>However had you bothered to read the CERT advisory itselfi= >>you would have discovered that Compaqs IP stack for OpenVMS 6 >>was effected by this violation. So your point is ??? >>: >>So there was no automatic protection because the host OS >>platform was OpenVMS.b >>: >>Solaris wan't effected by POD but OpenVMS was, does this, >>mean that Solaris is better than OpenVMS ? >>7 >>No, the only thing you can conclude from this is thata/ >>we did a better job in this case than Compaq.e >>9 >>There is no OpenVMS magic bullet get used to it, I haveo6 >>provided you with enough examples over the years and7 >>to be frank the argument is getting pretty pointless.  >>	 >>Regardse >>Andrew Harrison' >  > , > yes there is ... it is called SECURITY ...  * Bob, providing a Readers Digest version of/ you origional incorrect posting doesn't improvey& the strength of your possition, though brief in your case is better.o   regardss Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 07:27:57 -0600P From: brandon@dalsemi.comdM Subject: Re: SYSTARTUP_VMS (was: Three questions re: the VMS startup process) 1 Message-ID: <03033107275788@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>k   > brandon@dalsemi.com wrote:
 > > [snip]- > > Add this to your SYSTARTUP_VMS procedure:  > > . > > $!---------------------------------------- > > $! disable users from logindJ > > $! the set logins actually takes place in vms$lpbegin-050_startup.com;I > > $! set the startup$interactive_logins symbol to disable logins thoughtI > > $! users with /defpriv=oper will be able to gain access to the system- > > $!% > > $ startup$interactive_logins == 0: > > Self-explanitory.rI > > Then the last command procedure that you execute sets the logins to adD > > sufficient value - I use a logical set in SYLOGICALS to do this.O > > Note that /defpriv=OPER?  This will allow you into the system regardless ofn > > the set logins=0 > E > Exactly my point. (Far too) Many applications require users to holdaG > outlandish privileges just to run, although this is fading out as thea > ISV base shrinks.h< > Speaking from experience here - the danger is *VERY* real!  L If "many applications require users" to have outlandish privileges, then theK applicaiton is written incorrectly or should be installed with privileges.  N There are many metods to over-come this.  Our environment does not allow users to have privilges.  N The danger will exist only if you allow it to exist.  I am not aware of any LPP that would require this - not that it does not exist, I am just not aware of it.   John Brandon VMS Systems Administrators Dallas Semiconductor john.brandon@dalsemi.com 972.371.4172 wk1 972.371.4003 fx    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 07:40:32 -0600m From: brandon@dalsemi.comyM Subject: Re: SYSTARTUP_VMS (was: Three questions re: the VMS startup process)o1 Message-ID: <03033107403237@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>b   > brandon@dalsemi.com wrote:K > > My comment here - If you are starting TCP/IP very late in the sequence,uJ > > regardless of SUBMIT or @ then you are shooting yourself in the foot.  >  > Why is that ?t  O I was implying that there is a specifc order for certain (core) applications tooJ be startup in.  TCP/IP before PW, mount disk before starting ORACLE, etc. J Regardless of using a SUBMIT method or the @ startup method, if you do notE start the applications in order you will have problems.  That is why.m    Q > > My startup submit's in order those procedures that need to start first and iniQ > > ORDER.  This is command logica regardless.  There is absolutely no difference9< > > in a submit vs. an @, you need to keep the orer or else. > M > I have a batch queue with a single initiator (sorry for IBM/MVS terminogy). O > During startup, i submit a bunch of jobs in the order which they must executee > to that batch queue. > P > The problem with the TCPIP services is that the startup should really be splitF > in 2 parts: the core startup and the "layered applications" startup. > O > What I do in SYSTARTUP_VMS is that when it gets to the end, it then waits for F > the device BG: to become available, at which point it ends, allowing > DECwindows to start. > P > I think that one could use this to start other products in parralel as soon as > BG becomes available.  > N > It may be good to get BG: up ASAP, but one may not necessarily setup all the. > other TCPIP services right away during boot. > J > On the other hand, with 5.3, TCPIP ahs a big all-mighty monkey hidden inJ > INET$ACP that starts services defined in the database (and automaticallyK > restarts if they fail). So it may no longer be possible to start the core 7 > without having it start all the layered applications.t  L Using a detection for BG devices is a good idea - or the concept of checkingD services required before startup of those applications that need it.   My startup process in order:   1) mount all disks 2) start ECP 3) start DECevent  4) start DESTA 5) enabl3) start DECnete 6) enable AUDIT & ACCOUNTING 7) sys$net_services.coma 8) start DECneto# 9) start the check and wait processmI    this is where I can stall the startup process and allow admin to loging
 10) TCP/IP 11) TCP/IP PWIP.
 12) mount NFS 
 13) start LAT  14) start Registry
 15) Pathworkso 16) Java Tomcats
 17) Apache 18) AMDS 19) TNTn 20) DECwindows .. and then start with the LPo  K The parralel startup of the products that have core dependencies is a great6I idea.  I have thought about doing that, effectively reduces startup time.p   John Brandon VMS Systems Administrator  Dallas Semiconductor john.brandon@dalsemi.com 972.371.4172 wkr 972.371.4003 fx    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 16:26:43 +0200.) From: Bart Zorn <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl>tM Subject: Re: SYSTARTUP_VMS (was: Three questions re: the VMS startup process)e6 Message-ID: <3e885023$0$49105$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>   brandon@dalsemi.com wrote: >>brandon@dalsemi.com wrote:  
      [ Snip ].  N > Using a detection for BG devices is a good idea - or the concept of checkingF > services required before startup of those applications that need it. >  > My startup process in order: >  > 1) mount all disks > 2) start ECP > 3) start DECevente > 4) start DESTA  F I would certainly not wait for the startup of DECevent and DESTA, but H just SUBMIT them. Both products have a very high Unix flavor and I have ? seen at least once that the startup of one of them just hanged.    > 5) enabl3) start DECnetD > 6) enable AUDIT & ACCOUNTING > 7) sys$net_services.comr  C SYS$STARTUP:VMS$BASEENVIRON-050_VMS.COM calls SYS$NET_SERVICES.COM v6 unconditionally. There is no need to do that yourself.   > 8) start DECnet   & DECnet was already started at point 5.  % > 9) start the check and wait processoK >    this is where I can stall the startup process and allow admin to loginh > 10) TCP/IP > 11) TCP/IP PWIP   D If you have configured PWIP via the TCPIP$CONFIG procedure, PWIP is 9 started by TCPIP$STARTUP.COM. No need to do it your self.4   > 12) mount NFSc  * The natural place to mount NFS devices is H TCPIP$NFS_CLIENT_SYSTARTUP.COM. If you use that, there is no need to do  it from SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM.   > 13) start LAT  > 14) start Registry > 15) Pathworks   F Pathworks startup will start the registry server if it is not already % started. No need to do that yourself.t   > 16) Java Tomcatt > 17) Apache
 > 18) AMDS  D I like to start AMDS much earlier. It may allow you to solve a hang  situation during startup later!c  	 > 19) TNTb > 20) DECwindows > .. and then start with the LPi >    Just a few comments!  	 Bart Zorns   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 17:19:09 GMTw& From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net>M Subject: Re: SYSTARTUP_VMS (was: Three questions re: the VMS startup process)i8 Message-ID: <vnqg8vkcdurad17s2p1894po0a5ljveeqf@4ax.com>  > On Sun, 30 Mar 2003 11:06:19 -0600, brandon@dalsemi.com wrote:   >cL >In SYLOGICALS I mount needed disk drives and execute all command files thatM >have a file naming convention of *$LOGICALS.COM;  This allows me to maintain-L >related logicals (i.e., LAT, TCPIP, applicaiton, etc.) in one command file.M >So rather than modify a SYLOGICALS.COM procedure that has become 3,000 lines3L >long, I can easily update a small command file.  It is much easier to work M >with 10 or 20 lines rather than the combined 3,000 lines of code.  I use thee2 >f$search to locate and execute the command files. >a  E It would seem that somewhere along the line there's a balance betweeneC what it takes to modify a 3000 line procedure vs 150-300 procedureswF that are 10-20 lines long.  Especially if you make significant changesB to disk name designations (e.g., going from DUA to DGA or DSA disk names).h   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 11:43:03 -0500o% From: "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@hp.com>nM Subject: Re: SYSTARTUP_VMS (was: Three questions re: the VMS startup process)w& Message-ID: <3E887017.D080CD0B@hp.com>  G I would agree w/ Bart and also add why start up ECP so early?  The onlysH reason I can imagine would be to analyze startup performance.  IMHO onceG you have the system startup set the way you want, you wouldn't want thesA performance characteristics of this time period to 'pollute' your D 'normal' system usage statistics.  I recommend that performance dataC collectors get started 15-30 minutes after startup has completed toh; allow the system to settle into it's normal usage patterns.    Bart Zorn wrote: >  > brandon@dalsemi.com wrote: > >>brandon@dalsemi.com wrote: >  >      [ Snip ]t > P > > Using a detection for BG devices is a good idea - or the concept of checkingH > > services required before startup of those applications that need it. > >o  > > My startup process in order: > >- > > 1) mount all disks > > 2) start ECP > > 3) start DECeventr > > 4) start DESTA > G > I would certainly not wait for the startup of DECevent and DESTA, butsI > just SUBMIT them. Both products have a very high Unix flavor and I haveoA > seen at least once that the startup of one of them just hanged.d   -- hC Jilly	- Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Waverly, NYn0 	- jilly@clarityconnect.com			- Brett Bodine fan+ 	- Mark.Jilson@hp.com				- since 1975 or so- 	- http://www.jilly.baka.com   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 10:06:50 +0100 (MET)R9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>9/ Subject: Re: TCPIP Services and IP masqueradinge; Message-ID: <01KU65DW0GVMA9LL1B@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>.  I > Any reason why you don't want to buy a DSL/Cable router like a Linksys b > BEFSR41 or a Netgear RP614 ?  A Indeed.  Makes things a lot easier.  I prefer my re-badged Zyxel,f( though, since it has a telnet interface.   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 10:14:24 +0100 (MET)l9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>t/ Subject: Re: TCPIP Services and IP masquerading ; Message-ID: <01KU65KACAPKA9LL1B@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>l  J > Not sure how yr ISP configures your modem, but here, the modem will onlyG > transmit DHCP requests that come from the firt N ethernet adresses it G > sees on your LAN, where N is the number of IP addresses you pay for.   > H > So, if you pay for a single IP address, your modem will only work withG > the first ethernet address it sees on your lan. This means that afteroH > you power up the modem, if the first traffic it *sees* on the lan is aG > packet sent by your laptop to your vax, then only your laptop will beI. > able to talk to your ISP. (and vice versa).   C There are different schemes.  One common one, with which I am also  I familiar, is to have a router which negotiates PPPoE with the ISP and is  H a DHCP client with respect to the ISP.  With respect to machines on the I LAN, it CAN be a DHCP server, or one can use fixed IP addresses, in both AF cases private IP addresses (e.g. 192.168.x.y).  The ISP only sees the G router, which does NAT and PAT.  Many routers have a feature to enable bF it to clone the MAC address of a machine on the LAN, in case your ISP  authenticates you that way....   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 10:17:40 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>O/ Subject: Re: TCPIP Services and IP masqueradingg; Message-ID: <01KU65OJXNYMA9LL1B@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   E > My image of Lynksys was of a very low end product without MicrosofteF > levels of quality. Seems to me that acquiring Lynksys would decrease > Cisco's image. A  F Is this image based on experience?  I've had very few problems with myH Linksys router.  I do miss a telnet interface, and a serial connection, G but on the other hand it was not expensive.  What it does do, which is k enough, it does well.i  I > Interesting ttay Nortel decided to spin off Netgear whereas Cisco wouldp > acquire a low end player.h  I I kept wondering why Mercedes-Benz wanted to acquire Chrysler, then at a eD press conference someone said that that was the only way they could I conquer the low-end market.  :-)  (A while later, there was a cartoon of cG a guy in his garage with an old Dodge who exclaimed "I thought I would e NEVER drive a Daimler!".)e   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 17:11:16 GMT ; From: "John Gemignani, Jr." <jon-nope@thiswontworkossc.net> / Subject: Re: TCPIP Services and IP masqueradingA= Message-ID: <UE_ha.24129$TW2.4116014@news1.news.adelphia.net>d  3 "Mark E. Levy" <mlevy70@attbi.com> wrote in messageh' news:J5Pha.269477$F1.47963@sccrnsc04...kH > "John Gemignani, Jr." <jon-nope@thiswontworkossc.net> wrote in message9 > news:LAOha.23922$TW2.3901582@news1.news.adelphia.net...u >bI > > When the LAN modem connects, the provider has the ability to identify  DNSoJ > > information for it when it's assigned its address.  I know that when I > usedK > > to use NT to do my DHCP I had the ability to provide a lot of differentl? > > information to the client, such as default routes and such.t > >lG > > I don't have the LAN modem here any longer (I have it set up at thee parishE > > office for their internet access), but I recall that's how it allv worked.h >iJ > But the typical ISP dial-up doesn't use DHCP to assign the address. It'sH > done as part of the PPP negotiation. You are correct, though, that DNS/ > information can be passed on at connect time.o >f > ML >  >iH That's what I assumed, since I knew that DHCP had it.  It would not make5 sense for a dynamic setup to only do part of the job..   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 11:36:20 +0100t( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>) Subject: Re: VAX XDM, help needed please! ) Message-ID: <3E881A24.EFFA2A79@127.0.0.1>    Diego CLAEYS wrote:n > , > Here is a question from a newbie hobbyist,J > I have a VAX 4000-300 without display card, I have installed OpenVMS 7.30 > with DECWindows 1.2.6 (Motif) and TCPWARE 5.6.F > I would like to know if it is possible to have XDM running on my vaxF > (without display) and have a graphical login on my PC (OpenBSD) with > something like X -query???  E I know you're using TCPware, but an FYI (and I'm considering I shouldeF send comment to the TCPIP documentation writers) that the "Install andD Config" manual (for TCPIP v5) doesn't have all the steps required toA enable XDM under TCPIP, you also need to create (effectively) thesD allowed hosts, and without which the service falls flat on its face.   --  ? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Scienceso nclews at csc dot comt   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 07:10:52 -0500a2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)) Subject: Re: VAX XDM, help needed please!SL Message-ID: <rdeininger-3103030710520001@user-uinj48d.dialup.mindspring.com>  3 In article <3E881A24.EFFA2A79@127.0.0.1>, Nic Clewsu <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote:h  F >I know you're using TCPware, but an FYI (and I'm considering I shouldG >send comment to the TCPIP documentation writers) that the "Install andrE >Config" manual (for TCPIP v5) doesn't have all the steps required toeB >enable XDM under TCPIP, you also need to create (effectively) theE >allowed hosts, and without which the service falls flat on its face.1  . Please do send a note about the documentation.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 15:33:47 GMTe# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>b  Subject: VMS isn't even a choiceH Message-ID: <vdZha.60234$KlE.48564@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  E I was renewing my subscription to eWeek today and among the questions F asked was one about which o/s was in use within my organization. Guess$ which o/s isn't listed as an option?  $ I guess HP never took Marketing 101.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 14:52:59 +0100s+ From: John Laird <john@laird-towers.org.uk>:@ Subject: Re: VMS Software Product & Online Documentation Library8 Message-ID: <l0ig8v8tg5ucuqr0frubqrjqqub1kmp610@4ax.com>  C On Mon, 31 Mar 2003 07:59:36 +0200, Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> wrote:i  Q >Slightly of topic maybe, but a nice tip if you want to have all docs on line on O' >a VMS system with X-Windows interface.t > L >Create 3 LD devices (LD is on the freeware CD), and use backup to copy the K >contents of the docs CD's to these devices. Mount the LD devices with the XQ >correct label/logical (AXPDOC etc.), and run the setup utility from the docs CD.B >K> >And don't forget to install Netscape, or better Mozilla/CSWB. > > >Result: all docs on line, and much faster then with CD-Rom's. >3Q >And of course you can have more docs sets on line too, for instance Vax and AXP  2 >manuals. You only have to create more LD devices.  D I've just finished doing this on our office cluster.  I excluded theL Japanese directory from disk 2(?), but did not bother to remove the apparentL duplication of the dwmot126 directory tree on disk 3.  Nevertheless, I foundI everything could have easily fitted on two CDs had the author created the H original disk images a little more carefully, with a cluster factor of 4. rather than 9.  Perhaps they should use LD :-)  I With the documentation on much faster devices, it's even tolerable to use = creaky old Netscape 3.03g...  I still miss Bookreader though.m     	John    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 15:27:08 +0100a* From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>" Subject: Re: VMS Upgrade Questions+ Message-ID: <b69j7t$iui@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>p  [ "rlfitch" <rlfitch@peakpeak.com> wrote in message news:003601c2f70f$6d0c2dc0$0100a8c0@pj...r  I > This is very timely for me as I would like to upgrade from (Alpha) v7.2 J > to v7.2-2 (or 7.3) but I'm confused as to which patch(es) to apply.  AnyG > help is appreciated in deciphering the filenames of the patches. PluswJ > how to determine exactly what version the system is at and which patches< > have been installed. An upgrade 'path' would help greatly.  ? A rough and ready guide: it can no doubt be made more accurate. M First, read the install/release notes of whatever version you are targetting; I if time and applications permits, it's probably worth going to the latestw- version (7.3-1), even if that takes two hops.-  D On a standalone system, you don't often need to do anything prior toF an upgrade; in a cluster you may need some compatiblity kits. The onlyJ exception I recall in recent versions was the 7.2-1 to 7.3 where there was@ a fix for incorrect patch kitting: VMS721_RENAME_OLD. You rarely+ ever need to know the systems life history.A  9 PRODUCT SHOW PRODUCT VMS/FULL will show the current state 8 of VMS and its patches. The fine folks from Oz maintain:@ http://ftp.support.compaq.com.au/pub/ecoinfo/ecoinfo/version.htm* which is the first place you need to look.  > Patches named UPDATE (aggregate patches), SYS (VMS internals),J and PCSI (the update utility itself) are the ones most frequently requiredI by other patches. Patches including a random J in their name will usuallya< be Japanese; those starting VMS are the base system patches.K The -Vxxyy is a patch version: unless you know otherwise (e.g. if recalled)3J the latest version includes all previous versions fixes and should be used in preference.  G It gets more tangled the older the release you are moving to is. From aMH practical point of view, running two installs back to back then patchingG will probably take less time overall. Other considerations often apply, 
 of course.   Anything else?   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Mar 2003 10:00:13 +0100K From: pmoreau@ath.cena.fr (Patrick MOREAU, CENA Athis, Tel: 01.69.57.68.40)3: Subject: Re: [MOZILLA V1.3] Compatibility with JAVA V1.4 ?! Message-ID: <0tJRijXsRnM7@sinead>o  f In article <cc5619f2.0303302114.5436d906@posting.google.com>, jordan@ccs4vms.com (Rich Jordan) writes: [...] F > I just completed a series of upgrades to my PWS600au in order to getD > Mozilla 1.3 (final) running.  VMS 7.2-2 (from 7.2-1), Motif 1.2-6,G > TCPIP V5.1 eco 4 (was at eco 3). Also installed the Java SDK required H > patches.  TCPIP V5.3 is waiting on media, but V5.1 should work per the > release notes.  M I'm running Mozilla 1.3 final under OpenVMS 7.2-1 (with Update 3.0). The only0M problem I see is some strange display behavior on some sites when displaying F+ at 120% size. Same sites are OK with 1.2.1     Patrick  --O =============================================================================== N pmoreau@ath.cena.fr  (CENA)     ______      ___   _           (Patrick MOREAU)4 moreau_p@decus.fr (DECUS)       / /   /     / /|  /|J CENA/Athis-Mons FRANCE         / /___/     / / | / |   __   __   __   __  N BP 205                        / /         / /  |/  |  |  | |__| |__  |__| |  |N 94542 ORLY AEROGARE CEDEX    / /   ::    / /       |  |__| | \  |__  |  | |__|N http://www.ath.cena.fr/~pmoreau/            http://www.multimania.com/pmoreau/O ===============================================================================S   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 11:57:12 GMT ' From: Colin Blake <colin@theblakes.com>5: Subject: Re: [MOZILLA V1.3] Compatibility with JAVA V1.4 ?, Message-ID: <3E882D16.7070406@theblakes.com>   Rich Jordan wrote:  ? >INTERNAL ERROR on Browser End: Could not read ack from browserR( >System error?:: interrupted system call >T Please see Mozilla bug 199932r2 http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=199932   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 16:12:45 +0200a' From: JOUKJ <joukj@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl> : Subject: Re: [MOZILLA V1.3] Compatibility with JAVA V1.4 ?( Message-ID: <b69ics$f$1@news.tudelft.nl>  6 Patrick MOREAU, CENA Athis, Tel: 01.69.57.68.40 wrote:h > In article <cc5619f2.0303302114.5436d906@posting.google.com>, jordan@ccs4vms.com (Rich Jordan) writes: > [...]  > F >>I just completed a series of upgrades to my PWS600au in order to getD >>Mozilla 1.3 (final) running.  VMS 7.2-2 (from 7.2-1), Motif 1.2-6,G >>TCPIP V5.1 eco 4 (was at eco 3). Also installed the Java SDK required.H >>patches.  TCPIP V5.3 is waiting on media, but V5.1 should work per the >>release notes. >  > O > I'm running Mozilla 1.3 final under OpenVMS 7.2-1 (with Update 3.0). The onlylO > problem I see is some strange display behavior on some sites when displaying i- > at 120% size. Same sites are OK with 1.2.1 p > G Running with -install on a Pseudo-colour (8bit) visual give some weird e colour effects.i? see also bug http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=183466uE I reported this some month ago, but nothing seems to be done on this a problem: so I still run A1.2.                     Jouk    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 16:40:12 GMTt' From: Colin Blake <colin@theblakes.com>b: Subject: Re: [MOZILLA V1.3] Compatibility with JAVA V1.4 ?, Message-ID: <3E886F67.3000808@theblakes.com>   Rich Jordan wrote:  A >Mozilla 1.3 seemed to run with the 1.3.1 plugin, though I reallyaE >didn't try anything specific to test, so I got the 1.4.0 release andaE >installed it in another directory tree (ODS-5 disk).  I have updatedoA >the logins, and copied the new plugin as required in the install @ >instructions.  When I go to a site that tries to activate Java,@ >Mozilla now crashes with the following messages on the DECterm: >t? >INTERNAL ERROR on Browser End: Could not read ack from browser-( >System error?:: interrupted system call >hF I know this sounds stupid, but make sure you ran the Java 1.4-0 setup E procedure before trying to run Mozilla. I heard of people having the  A 1.3-1 setup in their login.com and forgetting to change it after e upgrading to Java 1.4-0.   Colin.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.178 ************************