1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 03 Nov 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 609       Contents: Re: Copy of SuperLat8 Re: INIT/SHADOW: misleading HELP with respect to /ERASE?8 Re: INIT/SHADOW: misleading HELP with respect to /ERASE?+ LINK-I-DATMISMCH: something to worry about? / Re: LINK-I-DATMISMCH: something to worry about? , Re: New releases of Python and MySQL for VMS" Re: OpenVMS, Itanium and Blades... OT: an example of a modern OS " Re: RA450 Owner Docs and Software? Show Memory/phys Re: SIMH: used with VMS?' Re: simple advice needed on VAX upgrade ' Re: simple advice needed on VAX upgrade  Text library extensions  Re: Text library extensions  Re: Text library extensions - Re: To foreign or verb ? That is the question - Re: To foreign or verb ? That is the question - Re: To foreign or verb ? That is the question - Re: To foreign or verb ? That is the question - Re: To foreign or verb ? That is the question - Re: To foreign or verb ? That is the question  Re: TS10, still around? < Re: Video "ringing" with PBXGA but not Mach64 or Elsa Gloria3 Re: [OT] US located ISP usable from  over the pond?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 19:30:28 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>  Subject: Re: Copy of SuperLat % Message-ID: <3FA5AFB4.71197C@fsi.net>    Memnon Emmanuel wrote: >  > > > ? > > >>Amazing. Your environment's net-folks still tolerate LAT?  > H > Unfortunatley it's the only route possible for our clinet with his VMS > legacy application.  >  >  > > > N > > >>Note sure what SuperLAT would do for you that can't be served some otherK > > >>way. Maybe if you describe your quandry in some detail, other posters % > > >>might have a suggestion or two.  >  > Let me elaborate...  > B > The VMS application in question uses a third party queing systemH > (nonDEC) for sending and managing printing jobs to LAT ports directly.D > This application cannot be modified. That means all print jobs are, > sent to specific LAT ports (LTA1000: etc.) > D > All was fine and well untill the Greek (both us and our client areH > from Greece) IRS decided that every invoice printed had to be verified= > by a 'black box device' that sits on a serial port on a PC.  > H > What this means is that whatever invoicing applicaiton environment youF > may have, must now print through a serial port on a PC!! I know what* > you must be thinking but this is true!!! > A > Anyway we tested with Pathworks 7.1 but pathworks has abandoned 4 > printing to LAT ports since version 6.x (I think). > D > So it was either getting our hands on a pre 7 version of PathworksB > (which we haven't found yet) or SuperLAT which is a very elegantH > solution to our very strange problem since it will sit on a PC serving- > PC printers as LAT printers to VMS systems.  > @ > Anyway, any other ideas are welcome for this peculiar problem.  F Well, something I would try is using reverse-TELNET, assigning logical  names to mimic LTA device names.   For example:  @ LTA100 is currently a target on a DECserver. So, I set up TELNETG listeners for the ports on the DEC server, install a third-party TCP/IP E stack on the VMS machine (since UCX is very limited in this area) and H set up, for example, NTY100 to target the appropriate TELNET listener onG the DECserver, and do this just after I start up my network stacks, but $ before I start up the queue manager:  # $ DEFINE/SYSTEM/EXEC LTA100 NTY100:   G Now, when the third-party spooler comes looking for LTA100, it finds it 4 via the logical name, grabs it and sends data to it.  C The experiment will tell you whether the third-party spooler breaks = enough rules that it ignores the logical names or tries to do G LAT-specific things to what may or may not be an LAT device. If it just F uses modified print symbionts, you may be able to play some games with> copying/renaming print symbionts to get the right combination.  , Again, that's something I would try. YMMV...   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 17:36:32 +0100 2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)A Subject: Re: INIT/SHADOW: misleading HELP with respect to /ERASE? ; Message-ID: <3fa53290.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>    Phillip Helbig wrote: F > really don't understand why BOOKREADER was discontinued.  With HTML,I > there is either One Big File, which is bad since it can take a while to J > load (especially if the source is not local), or lots of little files.  G > In the latter case, there is no easy way to search an entire book or  0 > list of books, as is possible with BOOKREADER.  E That's not true. Using a web server and ht://Dig or SWISH-E, the docs  *are* searchable.   H With a Java program as a frontend to ht://Dig's HTSEARCH.EXE (which alsoE works from command line - don't know about SWISH-E), it would even be F possible within the browser without the aid of a web server to execute HTSEARCH as a CGI application.   cu,    Martin --  G                            | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer 4  UNIX is user friendly.    | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deG  It's just selective about |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/ ;  who its friends are.      | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de    ------------------------------  * Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 22:49:03 +0000 (UTC)P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)A Subject: Re: INIT/SHADOW: misleading HELP with respect to /ERASE? $ Message-ID: <bo41ku$b68$2@online.de>  ; In article <3fa53290.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>, 5 martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender) writes:     > Phillip Helbig wrote: H > > really don't understand why BOOKREADER was discontinued.  With HTML,K > > there is either One Big File, which is bad since it can take a while to L > > load (especially if the source is not local), or lots of little files.  I > > In the latter case, there is no easy way to search an entire book or  2 > > list of books, as is possible with BOOKREADER. > G > That's not true. Using a web server and ht://Dig or SWISH-E, the docs  > *are* searchable.  > J > With a Java program as a frontend to ht://Dig's HTSEARCH.EXE (which alsoG > works from command line - don't know about SWISH-E), it would even be H > possible within the browser without the aid of a web server to execute  > HTSEARCH as a CGI application.  B OK, it's possible, but it's another application I have to install.   ------------------------------  * Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 22:52:45 +0000 (UTC)P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)4 Subject: LINK-I-DATMISMCH: something to worry about?$ Message-ID: <bo41rs$b68$3@online.de>  + I just got a few LINK-I-DATMISMCH messages.   F >  DATMISMCH,  creation date of 'date' in shareable image 'image-name'E >              differs from date of 'date' in shareable image library  >              'library-name'   E Sounds harmless.  Is there any circumstance in which I would actually 9 improve things if I manage to get the message to go away?   & >   Facility:     LINK, Linker Utility  I >   Explanation:  The creating date of a shareable image extracted from a L >                 shareable image library differs from the date recorded for6 >                 that shareable image in the library.   What could cause this?  O >   User Action:  Use the DCL command LIBRARY to insert the new shareable image 3 >                 into the shareable image library.   4 What, if any, unwanted side effects could this have?  C (By the way, this was when building the latest version of the HTTP  4 server.  Compaq C V6.2-008 on OpenVMS Alpha V7.2-1.)   ------------------------------  * Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 03:43:49 +0000 (UTC), From: lewis@PROBE.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)8 Subject: Re: LINK-I-DATMISMCH: something to worry about?. Message-ID: <bo4itl$3pq$1@newslocal.mitre.org>   helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes in article <bo41rs$b68$3@online.de> dated Sun, 2 Nov 2003 22:52:45 +0000 (UTC): G >>  DATMISMCH,  creation date of 'date' in shareable image 'image-name' F >>              differs from date of 'date' in shareable image library >>              'library-name'  J Translated to plain (but VMS-savvy) english:  The version of the shareable; image which resides in the shareable image library (usually J SYS$LIBRARY:IMAGELIB.OLB) is not the same as the one you're trying to use.  F >Sounds harmless.  Is there any circumstance in which I would actually: >improve things if I manage to get the message to go away?  G I think whether it's harmful depends on how drastically you changed the J library.  But I don't know how drastic you have to get to screw things up. Anyway, the fix is normally:  =     $ LIB SYS$LIBRARY:IMAGELIB/SHARE your_shareable_image.EXE   ) And if the shareable image is installed,    .     $ INSTALL REPLACE your_shareable_image.EXE   >What could cause this?   G Putting a new shareable image out there and doing only one of the above J commands.  For example, if you install a C RTL patch to a cluster, the newL image gets put in IMAGELIB, and it gets INSTALLed on that node, but you haveC to manually INSTALL it on other nodes booted from that system disk.   P >>   User Action:  Use the DCL command LIBRARY to insert the new shareable image4 >>                 into the shareable image library. > 5 >What, if any, unwanted side effects could this have?   H Again, it depends on how drastic the change was.  Some patches require a	 reboot...   D >(By the way, this was when building the latest version of the HTTP 5 >server.  Compaq C V6.2-008 on OpenVMS Alpha V7.2-1.)   H I guess you installed a patch beforehand, which caused this?  You didn't( tell us the name of the shareable image.  0 --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 21:17:06 -0600 ( From: Rich Jordan <duodec@speakeasy.net>5 Subject: Re: New releases of Python and MySQL for VMS 2 Message-ID: <AvWdneS-KrwbJDiiXTWc-g@speakeasy.net>   Thanks very much!    Rich Jordan    jf.pieronne@laposte.net wrote:	 > Hi all,  > ? > Kits for Python 2.3.1 and MySQL 4.0.16 are now available from C > http://www.pi-net.dyndns.org/anonymous/kits/ and the two mirrors.  ....   >  > Jean-Franois  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 19:46:57 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> + Subject: Re: OpenVMS, Itanium and Blades... ' Message-ID: <3FA5B391.69D0448C@fsi.net>    Fabio Cardoso wrote: > @ > Do you know if HP will develop Itanium Blades to run OpenVMS ?: > I am imagining this blades for industrial automation and > massive clustering....  ? If "blade" = "SBC" (Single Board Computer) for purposes of this " discussion, I don't see why not...   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 17:31:34 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>& Subject: OT: an example of a modern OS) Message-ID: <3FA585B9.13590A86@istop.com>   5 http://www.symbian.com/technology/symbos-v7s-det.html   L This is what used to be PSION's "EPOC32" operating system which was spun offM into Symbian. The minute Psion abandonned PDAs, the mobile phone companies go N to work to get Symbian to build them an OS which each phone company could then) use to build the applications and phones.   I Forgetting that this is meant to run on in a phone, I am quite pleasantly J surprised to see how far Symbian was able to take EPOC and build the basis some something quite amazing.   K Forgetting the telephony-specific APIs, the OS still provides an incredible M richness in support for modern needs and has made me realise how much VMS (as A an operating system) is starting to lag in those modern features.   I Of couse, even though they claim it is an open system, it is in fact more J proprietary than VMS, but in exchange, they provide a richer set of systemF services including image decoders/encoders, documenty converters etc.   M (Of course, VMS *had* that with the CDA converters which would have been very 1 propular today if they had been kept up to date).   H And all this reminds me of how much work isn't being done to improve VMS@ because the engineers are busy with the port to that IA64 thing.   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Nov 2003 15:53:12 -0800 + From: tonymcg27@yahoo.com.au (Tony McGrath) + Subject: Re: RA450 Owner Docs and Software? = Message-ID: <521ebd9f.0311021553.51701b9b@posting.google.com>    G'day Rick, ) We have a couple of RA450's here at work. < The two manuals I have, that are specific to the RA450, are:5 (1) Getting Started - RAID Array 450 v5.1 for OpenVMS 4     Order Number : AA-R201B-TE   (May 1997, 2nd ed.)- (2) RAID Array 450 Office Expansion Enclosure .     Order Number : EK-SMCPN-UG.A01  (Oct 1996)  0 The second one is probably the one you're after.C I've Googled for those Order Numbers and cannot find a soft copy on . the net. I even searched the HP site. Nothing!> Maybe with a bit more perseverance you might be able to locate
 something.  < As for version of software, our HSZ50 controllers tell me...= "Copyright Compaq Computer Corporation 1993, 1998. All rights 	 reserved. 9  HSZ50-AX Firmware version V57Z-3, Hardware version  A01" F The firmware was upgraded about 6 months ago. I vaguely remember my HP7 engineer telling it was the last release for the HSZ50.    Cheers from Oz,    Tony ---  Tony McGrath OpenVMS Support Group  Toll Transport, IT Dept.$ Laverton North, VIC, Australia, 3006) tony_mcgrath (at) toll (dot) com (dot) au   e "Richard L. Dyson" <rick-dyson@uiowa.edu> wrote in message news:<9Y0pb.82020$HS4.681158@attbi_s01>... J > Does anyone know of a link to any on-line copies of the manuals and docsI > for the RA450 (DS-SWXRA-W0)?  I recently picked up one but got no paper J > with it at all and would like to know about details like troubleshooting! > the EMU & controller LEDs, etc.  > K > Also, does anyone know what the final version of the controller software? K > Is there any way to get PCMCIA cards loaded with a copy if I don't have a  > recent copy? > 	 > Thanks,  > rick   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Nov 2003 22:57:58 -0800 - From: bhushann@hotmail.com (Bhushan Narkhede)  Subject: Show Memory/phys < Message-ID: <8a3b834.0311022257.340a36e3@posting.google.com>   Hi All,   ;   I have one VMS system that shows "how Mem/phy" output as  C Physical Memory Usage (pages):     Total        Free      In Use     ModifiedF   Private Memory (352.00Mb)        45056       31130       12872        1054 @   Shared Memory (32.00Mb)           4096        4001          95   Whereas, other that shows as    ?    Physical Memory Usage (pages):   Total     Free     In Use    ModifiedE        Main Memory (24.00Mb)          49152    16390      31056        1706  E The difference between the two can be seen. In the first one, we have D private and shared memory and in the second one we have Main Memory.  C I had a application that reads from the second the main memory. But E now we have a situation for the first one where we don't see the main  memory.   @ Can any one guide me on how to obtain main memory for VMS system showing the , show mem/phy output as in the first case????   Thank you and Rgds,  Bhushan    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 19:35:20 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> ! Subject: Re: SIMH: used with VMS? ' Message-ID: <3FA5B0D8.A3167DB8@fsi.net>    Fabio Cardoso wrote: > = > What about developing a version of SIHM to run the obsolete ; > DEC SNA Gateway. We have a  few DEC Channel Servers here. 3 > Bless of God (HP/DEC) had an Q-Bus AUI interface. 3 > So, why not develop a version to run in a PC with : > standard PCI NICs. May b e just installing a third party > Channel Controller.   
 Um, Fabio?  H The Channel Server includes a lot of specialized hardware, not the least) of which is the bus/tag interface device.   F SNA/Gwy-ST would be a good candidate for an emulated VAX, provided youH can manage to find a suitable synchronous serial device that Charon-VAX,G SIMH, etc. will recognize. Likewise, anything else that may have run on D a MicroVAX-II would be a good experimentation candidate. Dunno 'bout DEMSA...  * SNA/Gwy-CT is right out, I should think...   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 19:42:22 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> 0 Subject: Re: simple advice needed on VAX upgrade' Message-ID: <3FA5B27E.C6EEFAE2@fsi.net>   / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:  > 2 > In article <3FA4454B.D2A64C@istop.com>, JF Mezei% > <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes:  > E > > > It talks about booting from [SYSF] during the upgrade.  Is this E > > > something which is invoked automatically somehow by the upgrade = > > > procedure, or do I need to specify this at the console.  > > O > > Either way, the upgrade procedure should be telling you something like "the O > > upgrade procedure will now shutdown your system and reboot XXXX (where XXXX Q > > may be "automatically from a different root" or "manually, you'll have to ask & > > the system to boot from root "F"). > F > So I just have to @SYS$UPDATE:VMSINSTAL and follow the instructions. > Sounds easy enough.  >    >>> B/R5:F0000000   G ...should do the trick on just about everything from a MicroVAX-II to a @ VAX-6000, except (probably) the VAX-11/8xxx/9000/10000 machines.  4 VAX-7000 (I believe) uses the Alpha/SRM-like syntax:  
 >>> b -fl f,0    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 19:44:46 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> 0 Subject: Re: simple advice needed on VAX upgrade' Message-ID: <3FA5B30E.BB606F4F@fsi.net>   / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:  > [snip]7 > Isn't [SYSE] (now) the default for standalone backup?   G For a VAX system disk, yes. For others (including the CD), it's root 0.    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 16:26:59 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>  Subject: Text library extensions) Message-ID: <3FA5769B.8D35CDFF@istop.com>   3 OK, I know that text libraries are by default, .TLB = I know that there is also .HLB which are also text libraries.   @ Are other extensions that are commonly used for text libraries ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 20:07:57 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> $ Subject: Re: Text library extensions' Message-ID: <3FA5B87D.75AEE8AE@fsi.net>    JF Mezei wrote:  > 5 > OK, I know that text libraries are by default, .TLB ? > I know that there is also .HLB which are also text libraries.  > B > Are other extensions that are commonly used for text libraries ?  C .HLB is not necessarily purely a "text library". The library format G differs little; however, the extension has meaning to the Librarian and  the LBR$ RTL routines.  < The only other text-format library type I know of is .MLB, a macro-library.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 22:28:35 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>$ Subject: Re: Text library extensions( Message-ID: <3FA5CB5C.84501C6@istop.com>   "David J. Dachtera" wrote:E > .HLB is not necessarily purely a "text library". The library format I > differs little; however, the extension has meaning to the Librarian and  > the LBR$ RTL routines.  E Yes, but ou can still extract the text contents of a module. Right ?    > > The only other text-format library type I know of is .MLB, a > macro-library.  ' Thanks. I had forgotten about that one.    ------------------------------  * Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 19:01:12 +0000 (UTC)P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)6 Subject: Re: To foreign or verb ? That is the question$ Message-ID: <bo3k9o$urf$1@online.de>  9 In article <00A284CA.1459250F@SendSpamHere.ORG>, VAXman-   @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:   D > In article <bo38qu$17fk11$1@ID-209632.news.uni-berlin.de>, "Martin0 P.J. Zinser" <zinser@zinser.no-ip.info> writes:   J > >- I prefer foreign commands, since a.) Most programs do not have a VMS H > >CLI anyhow, b.) Using a CLD bloats the definition process c.) If you I > >want to put it in DCLTABLES (which avoids problem b) you do need again 	 > >privs.  > G > DCL command syntax parsing does not require entries in DCLTABLES.  It H > is far easier to use the CLI$DCL_PARSE call and tables linked into theH > image.  Done this way, a foreign command can invoke the program and itH > can then treat the command line like a DCL command string with qualif-4 > iers, parameters, keywords, alternate syntax, etc.  * An example with a widely used application:   $ sh sym zip&   ZIP == "$DISK$SOFT:[ZIP]ZIP.AXP_EXE"
 $ zip/helpF Copyright (C) 1990-1996 Mark Adler, Richard B. Wales, Jean-loup Gailly= Onno van der Linden, Christian Spieler and Igor Mandrichenko. ; Zip 2.1 (April 27th 1996). Usage: zip=="$disk:[dir]zip.exe" < zip zipfile[.zip] [list] [/EXCL=(xlist)] /options /modifiersK   The default action is to add or replace zipfile entries from list, except I   those in xlist. The include file list may contain the special name - to E   compress standard input.  If both zipfile and list are omitted, zip    compresses stdin to stdout.    Major options include:H     /FRESHEN, /UPDATE, /DELETE, /[NO]MOVE, /COMMENTS[={ZIP_FILE|FILES}],@     /LATEST, /TEST, /ADJUST_OFFSETS, /FIX_ARCHIVE[=FULL], /UNSFX   Modifiers include:G     /EXCLUDE=(file list), /INCLUDE=(file list), /SINCE="creation time", @     /QUIET, /VERBOSE[=MORE], /[NO]RECURSE, /[NO]DIRNAMES, /JUNK,H     /[NO]KEEP_VERSION, /[NO]VMS, /[NO]PKZIP, /TRANSLATE_EOL[={LF|CRLF}],L     /[NO]EXTRA_FIELDS /LEVEL=[0-9], /TEMP_PATH=directory, /BATCH[=list file]= $ zip/vms/lev=9/verb sys$scratch:test.zip sys$login:login.com C   adding: helbig/login.com      (in=6426) (out=2534) (deflated 61%) 0 total bytes=6426, compressed=2534 -> 61% savings $   G Despite the misleading help, the qualifiers can come in any order, can  : be abbreviated, if repeated the last takes precedence etc.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 14:39:01 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>6 Subject: Re: To foreign or verb ? That is the question) Message-ID: <3FA55D54.900B2C95@istop.com>    "Martin P.J. Zinser" wrote: H > - Distribution: ZIP, it does all we really need plus allows me to move9 > sources seamlessly between VMS and various Unix systems   H When I relased my version of WHOIS, I got some complainst that their ZIPM couldn't handle it properly (not everyone has an up to date version of ZIP on " VMS, whereas DCX-EXE is all there.  L Of course, DCX-EXE does have the disadvantage (or advantage ?) that you needM to download the platform specific one since it is an executable. But everyone M can extract thsoe files without the need for another utility which may or may 
 not be there.   F > - Installation: Both VMSINSTAL and PCSI have one major disadvantage.) > They do require elevated privs to work.   K I wasn't aware that VMSinstall needed elevated privs to work. Isn't there a @ list of privileges one can define for a particular intallation ?  E > the bill. As for Installation places I vote for a VMS equivalent of G > /usr/local on Unix. All hp would need to do is provide a logical name = > thant could be used in the build/installation procedures!!!   K Agreed. VMS is turning into windows with no real management of where things N should be going. I'd like to keep sys$system, sys$manager and even sys$library7 free of application specific stuff as much as possible.   L (and I'd love for the TCPIP folks to move all their stuff from sys$manager).  H > - I prefer foreign commands, since a.) Most programs do not have a VMSF > CLI anyhow, b.) Using a CLD bloats the definition process c.) If youH > want to put it in DCLTABLES (which avoids problem b) you do need again > privs.  I When you do @SYS$MANAGER:TCPIP$DEFINE_COMMANDS, it results in SHOW SYMBOL N */GLOBAL being rendered more or less useless because there are so many symbolsC defined. If the trend continues, then the VMS engineers may have to H re-engineer the dcl symbol tables to handle larged number of entries :-)  J So I am a bit concerned about having so many commands defined as a symbol,> which also makes for management of symbol definition at login.    H > Most important at all I want to point out that a number of people hereD > complain loudly about things like missing VMS CLIs und such. Well,' > welcome to the world of Open Source.    5 But if one is building a VMS specific application ...   9 Is CLI slowly dying because of all of the Unix software ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 22:25:37 +0100 2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)6 Subject: Re: To foreign or verb ? That is the question; Message-ID: <3fa57651.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>   + JF Mezei (jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com) wrote:  > "Martin P.J. Zinser" wrote: J > > - Distribution: ZIP, it does all we really need plus allows me to move; > > sources seamlessly between VMS and various Unix systems  > J > When I relased my version of WHOIS, I got some complainst that their ZIPH > couldn't handle it properly (not everyone has an up to date version of+ > ZIP on VMS, whereas DCX-EXE is all there.   K ZIP can do that, too. In every source distribution of Info-ZIP, MAKESFX.EXE I gets built, which is a stub executable to expand an attached ZIP archive. B Just copy it with the ZIP file into SFX-EXE, and you have the sameB functionality. The JAVA for VMS distribution is an example for it.  I > Of course, DCX-EXE does have the disadvantage (or advantage ?) that you G > need to download the platform specific one since it is an executable.   D Same thing with ZIP & MAXESFX. Except, there's an intact ZIP archiveF insode the executable, so with an up-to-date version of UNZIP, you can extract it, too.  J > > - I prefer foreign commands, since a.) Most programs do not have a VMSH > > CLI anyhow, b.) Using a CLD bloats the definition process c.) If youJ > > want to put it in DCLTABLES (which avoids problem b) you do need again
 > > privs. > K > When you do @SYS$MANAGER:TCPIP$DEFINE_COMMANDS, it results in SHOW SYMBOL H > */GLOBAL being rendered more or less useless because there are so manyJ > symbols defined. If the trend continues, then the VMS engineers may haveM > to re-engineer the dcl symbol tables to handle larged number of entries :-)  > L > So I am a bit concerned about having so many commands defined as a symbol,@ > which also makes for management of symbol definition at login.  I Better to be able to see the commands than to have a SET COMMAND executed 2 and not know what commands are in the DCLTABLES...   cu,    Martin --  J One OS to rule them all       | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer7 One OS to find them           | work: mv@pdv-systeme.de J One OS to bring them all      |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/> And in the Darkness bind them.| home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  * Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 22:46:46 +0000 (UTC)P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)6 Subject: Re: To foreign or verb ? That is the question$ Message-ID: <bo41gm$b68$1@online.de>  2 In article <3FA55D54.900B2C95@istop.com>, JF Mezei$ <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes:   J > > - Distribution: ZIP, it does all we really need plus allows me to move; > > sources seamlessly between VMS and various Unix systems  > J > When I relased my version of WHOIS, I got some complainst that their ZIPO > couldn't handle it properly (not everyone has an up to date version of ZIP on $ > VMS, whereas DCX-EXE is all there.  E True, but the minimum work required (and a satisfactory solution for  E many folks) is to download a current executable and define a foreign  F command.  Also, I think there must be few people who install freeware 2 but don't have an up-to-date version of ZIP/UNZIP.  N > (and I'd love for the TCPIP folks to move all their stuff from sys$manager).  / Yes.  There is a lot of cleaning up to do here.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 19:58:29 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> 6 Subject: Re: To foreign or verb ? That is the question' Message-ID: <3FA5B645.C5D6D477@fsi.net>    Didier Morandi wrote:  >  > JF Mezei wrote:  > R > > The document could be titled "Guide to packaging and distributing applications > > on VMS"  > H > Yeah. It exists since ages as a DEC internal use only document used toH > build kits with spkitbld.com. As all this has been superceded by PCSI,; > may I suggest to see how PCSI could answer your question?  > 5 > For those who do not *like* building PCSI kits, see * > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vmsinstal/I > and you'll discover that it *is* a very good and documented replacement F > tool for KITINSTAL.COM. I have posted in this forum my self training@ > PCSI_MENU.COM tool. I will release it (and some others) to the > OpenVMS.org community soon.   F Looking forward to it. The PCSI Developer's doc. is only slightly less@ cryptic than the books of Daniel and Revelation, combined - IMO.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  * Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 03:21:00 +0000 (UTC), From: lewis@PROBE.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)6 Subject: Re: To foreign or verb ? That is the question. Message-ID: <bo4his$12i$1@newslocal.mitre.org>  { JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes in article <3FA479E9.6352DE4B@istop.com> dated Sat, 01 Nov 2003 22:29:09 -0500: M >What do system managers and VMS engineers prefer when it comes to installing  >freeware applications ?  I >Are there guidelines for when an application should be invoked as a verb N >versus a foreign command that takes arguments in DCL style versus application% >that takes arguments in unix style ?   I If there's ever a chance that the app will be ported to Unix/Linux, use a @ foreign command and argument vector.  That will keep the command@ documentation from diverging, and shorten the learning curve for multiplatform users.  L If it's a VMS-forever program, my personal preference is verbs.  Verbs allowM abbreviation where it's smart.  That's about the only advantage to the user.  J I can think of lots of other reasons why it's better for the programmer to# use verbs, but you didn't ask that.   J The only drawback besides non-portability is that in the situation where aJ non-privileged user installs a verb-style program in his own directory, heG must put a "set command xxx.cld" in his login.com.  This is much higher $ overhead than a symbol assignment.    M >While I am at it, there really needs to be some standard established to make O >it easy to distribute software. To this end, if Digital/HP were to release the K >tool that generates DCX_EXE files, it would be a great thing for VMS which I >would get its own distribution format, in the same vein as APPLE has its O >binhex or stuffit formats, Debian Linux has its own proprietary format etc. Or ) >is ZIP the official format now for VMS ?   < Stuffit is like Zip except it saves the resource fork too.  : Binhex is like UUENCODE or MIME, but with a resource fork./ I don't think VMS needs anything more than Zip.   0 --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 18:32:40 -05002 From: "Timothy Stark" <sword7nospam@speakeasy.org>  Subject: Re: TS10, still around?2 Message-ID: <FuWdnYXENOiECTiiRTvUqA@speakeasy.net>   Didier,o  I Yes, I still am doing developments.  I am porting my TS10 emulator to C++  language in progress. C Also, my latest snapshots are at ftp://ftp.firesword7.net/pub/ts10.o   Time  / "Didier Morandi" <no@spam.com> wrote in message , news:3fa2620e$0$245$636a55ce@news.free.fr...I > Does anyone know if TS10 is still a project under development? Does notw look) > like, according to the SourceForge siteH% http://sourceforge.net/projects/ts10/d >o0 > Does anyone know if VMS once booted with TS10? >d > Tx,t >b > D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 21:01:20 -0600 ( From: Rich Jordan <duodec@speakeasy.net>E Subject: Re: Video "ringing" with PBXGA but not Mach64 or Elsa Gloriab2 Message-ID: <AvWdneW-KrxLKDiiXTWc-g@speakeasy.net>   Hoff Hoffman wrote:ef > In article <3F9F2054.9050202@Flying-Disk.com>, Alan Frisbie <Usenet01REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com> writes:E > :Hoff, do you suppose you could get this added to the FAQ or Wizardl1 > :answers in case anyone else hits this problem?  > K >   Having done some more digging, the official answer is to always use the L >   PBXGA-BA/BN or PBXGA-CA/CN ZLXp-E* series graphics controller cards onlyL >   with a DIGITAL-supplied BC13L-10 or BC14J-10 series video signal cable. N >   What you are seeing -- the ghosting -- can be a known and expected problemM >   if a another cable is used.  If you purchase one of these graphics cards,b2 >   you will want to ensure you receive the cable. >   H Of course that presupposes you're using a monitor that doesn't have its E own hardwired video cable; not an issue with the genuine article DEC mI parts, but lots of generic PC units like my Nokia are handicapped with a  I fixed cable.  The grounding modification lets them all work with the -E2 qI card.  I would have used a VR299, which worked with VMS on that box, but sH since I had to share usage with NT Alpha, and that braindead POS had no C way to turn on/leave on the sync-on-green function we had to get a i different monitor.   > K > :Now I have just one remaining question: Why does "Style Manager - Color" I > :not allow me to change colors (the "Modify" button is greyed out) with ? > :the ZLXp-E2, but does allow it with the Elsa and ATI boards?a >  >   Donno.  Not enough planes? >  >   D -E2 is supposed to be a 24-plane card, if I remember correctly.  My , books are still packed so I can't verify it.   Rich Jordano   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 20:29:38 +0100 " From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>< Subject: Re: [OT] US located ISP usable from  over the pond?4 Message-ID: <3fa55b22$0$10408$626a54ce@news.free.fr>   Paul Sture wrote:u  C > Well, I tried replying privately, but was stopped by Spam Arrest.  > I > They gave me a url to click on, with the result that it told me that my E > attempt had failed. No idea why that is, unless it's because I haveT > Javascript disabled.   I got your message fine.F You understand now why I want to handle my incoming mail by myself. A , few DCL lines and no more spamarrest needed.   D.  < PS: I wonder if one can do heuristics programming in DCL :-)   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.609 ************************