1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 05 Nov 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 614       Contents: (Open)SSL for VMS  Re: (Open)SSL for VMS  Re: (Open)SSL for VMS  Re: (Open)SSL for VMS O Announcment - BEA's WLS 8.1 SP1 for OpenVMS now available for external download ( Re: Campus and Pathworks/Advanced Server0 Re: concerned and confused about MOUNT/NOREBUILD. Re: Daylight to Standard Time Change via Batch. Re: Daylight to Standard Time Change via Batch: Re: Does anyone shut down for system disk backup any more?: Re: Does anyone shut down for system disk backup any more?: Re: Does anyone shut down for system disk backup any more?: Re: Does anyone shut down for system disk backup any more?: Re: Does anyone shut down for system disk backup any more?: Re: Does anyone shut down for system disk backup any more?: Re: Does anyone shut down for system disk backup any more?: Re: Does anyone shut down for system disk backup any more?: Re: Does anyone shut down for system disk backup any more?N Re: Does anyone shut down for system disk backup any more? (Know Your System!)P Re: Does anyone shut down for system disk backup any more? (Know Your System!) SP Re: Does anyone shut down for system disk backup any more? (Know Your System!) SP Re: Does anyone shut down for system disk backup any more? (Know Your System!) S Re: Erp running on Vms ? Re: Erp running on Vms ? Re: Full Duplex NIC cards ! Re: newbie problem installing VMS ! RE: newbie problem installing VMS ! Re: newbie problem installing VMS ! Re: newbie problem installing VMS & Re: OpenVMS i64 missing in HP WEB page! Re: OT: an example of a modern OS ! Re: OT: an example of a modern OS ! Re: OT: an example of a modern OS  Re: Patrol x Decnet Management0 Re: Piping X-Windows traffic over ssh on OpenVMS0 Re: Piping X-Windows traffic over ssh on OpenVMS0 Re: Piping X-Windows traffic over ssh on OpenVMS SAN Switch Issue- Re: To foreign or verb ? That is the question - Re: To foreign or verb ? That is the question * Re: VMS in pole position in an HP WEB page$ Re: VMS not mentioned by HP....again$ Re: VMS not mentioned by HP....again We need your DS10 Systems  Re: We need your DS10 Systems 6 Will any of them ask where the OpenVMS advertising is? Re: [OT] FedEx, UPS or DHL?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 11:23:22 +0100% From: "Jakob Erber" <erberj@yahoo.de>  Subject: (Open)SSL for VMS% Message-ID: <3fa8cf9a$1@news.post.ch>    Hello,  J as far as I know, there is a official SSH package now from HP for OpenVMS.L Does this mean, there is also an official SSL module? Or is it still OpenSSLG to be used? If the latter is true, where can I find the newest version?   - sorry, if this question has been asked before    best regards   Jakob    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 11:38:17 +0100 7 From: Robert Trawinski <robert.trawinski@softax.com.pl>  Subject: Re: (Open)SSL for VMS/ Message-ID: <boajur$p42$1@bozon2.softax.com.pl>    Jakob Erber wrote: > Hello, > L > as far as I know, there is a official SSH package now from HP for OpenVMS.N > Does this mean, there is also an official SSL module? Or is it still OpenSSLI > to be used? If the latter is true, where can I find the newest version?  > / > sorry, if this question has been asked before  >  > best regards >  > Jakob  >  >   3 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/ebusiness/technology.html    Robert   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 13:04:55 +0100- From: "Martin Vorlaender" <mv@pdv-systeme.de>  Subject: Re: (Open)SSL for VMS9 Message-ID: <boap1h$1b6fva$1@ID-56200.news.uni-berlin.de>    Jakob Erber wrote:C > as far as I know, there is a official SSH package now from HP for F > OpenVMS. Does this mean, there is also an official SSL module? Or isF > it still OpenSSL to be used? If the latter is true, where can I find > the newest version?   = http://www.openssl.org/ has source distributions for OpenSSL. = These are readily buildable under OpenVMS - provided you have  a DEC C compiler.    cu,    Martin --  F   OpenVMS:                | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer3    The operating system   | work: mv@pdv-systeme.de F    God runs the           |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/:    earth simulation on.   | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 13:13:29 +0100* From: "Luca_B" <balzano@NOiolUPPERCASE.it> Subject: Re: (Open)SSL for VMS( Message-ID: <boaphf$1ker$1@half.spin.it>  8 "Jakob Erber" <erberj@yahoo.de> ha scritto nel messaggio news:3fa8cf9a$1@news.post.ch...  > Hello, > L > as far as I know, there is a official SSH package now from HP for OpenVMS.   only for VMS/ALPHA   L.   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Nov 2003 08:41:46 -0800 1 From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski) X Subject: Announcment - BEA's WLS 8.1 SP1 for OpenVMS now available for external download= Message-ID: <857e9e41.0311050841.1b4431de@posting.google.com>    From: Nazeer, Tariq + Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 11:25 AM " To: OpenVMS Systems Software Group Cc: Skonetski, SusanD Subject: I: BEA's WLS 8.1 SP1 for OpenVMS now available for external download    ; Please distribute internally and externally as appropriate.   E This is to announce the general availability of BEA's WebLogic Server  v8.1 Sp1 applicationE server release on OpenVMS. This is BEA's current release of WLS - now  shipping on OpenVMS , within 90 days of its availability on HP-UX.  Q Please go to http://commerce.bea.com/showproduct.jsp?family=WLS&major=8.1&minor=1 @ and choose the "OpenVMS" tab, to download the current release on OpenVMS.  B Please also bookmark the following URL. It will be updated soon toF provide you with a special 6 month FREE development license of WLS 8.1 on OpenVMS. e http://www.bea.com/framework.jsp?CNT=index.htm&FP=/content/services/customer_support/eval/hpvmsbundle   A For those customers requiring a CD version of the product, please  contact me for? details. The WLS 8.1 Sp1 CD release will be shipping out to all  OpenVMS support F customers with the 4th quarter Layered Products Distrbution later this month.   Tariq Nazeer0 Segment Manager (E-Business/Middleware Partners)" OpenVMS Vertical Segment Programs  Hewlett-Packard Company  110 Spit Brook Road  Nashua, NH 03062 Tel:  1-603-884-6292 Fax: 1:603-884-0033    ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 19:16:07 +1100: From: "David McKenzie" <david.mckenzie@paradigm-shift.biz>1 Subject: Re: Campus and Pathworks/Advanced Server C Message-ID: <3fa8b1f5$0$95043$c30e37c6@lon-reader.news.telstra.net>   J and don't you stil have to use a pathworks utility to register the license
 to pathworks?    My memory is fading here   --   David McKenzie  7 David.Mckenzie@paradigm-shift.dot.biz  remove the "dot"  OpenVMS IT Privacy and Law   http://www.paradigm-shift.biz : "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message- news:iDa3TijLeGmO@eisner.encompasserve.org... H > In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIMEICIFAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes: > * > > I thought 0 units meant unlimited use. > K > It does for ordinary LMF use, but Pathworks PAKs are not exactly ordinary 
 > LMF use.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 18:51:45 +1100: From: "David McKenzie" <david.mckenzie@paradigm-shift.biz>9 Subject: Re: concerned and confused about MOUNT/NOREBUILD C Message-ID: <3fa8ac3f$0$95044$c30e37c6@lon-reader.news.telstra.net>   I Rebuild is not a big deal. The operating system allocates blocks from the J free list to itself so it can avoid writing the bit map at write time. AllG you lose by not rebuilding is space, and givn modern disks, not much of  that.   L However at some stage /rebuild has to take out the volume serialization lock/ so at that point all other io stops to the disk   7 Rebuild some time after reboot when the system is quiet      --   David McKenzie  7 David.Mckenzie@paradigm-shift.dot.biz  remove the "dot"  OpenVMS IT Privacy and Law   http://www.paradigm-shift.biz 0 "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> wrote in message) news:vogal5am6plo22@news.supernews.com... , > "Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply"! <helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de> 1 > wrote in message news:bm8i51$2n0$3@online.de... K > > I want to avoid the delay caused by a rebuild during boot.  Reading the H > > cluster manual, I'm a bit confused as to what the recommendation is. > > The way I understand it: > > 4 > > ALWAYS use MOUNT/NOREBUILD for non-system disks. > > L > > For system disks, set ACP_REBLDSYSD to 0 on satellites and to 1 for boot > > servers. > > , > > Of course, do a MOUNT/REBUILD regularly. > , > I think you really want SET VOLUME/REBUILD >  > >  > > Three questions: > > 0 > > Is this what the manual actually recommends? > > 1 > > Do folks here agree with this recommendation?  > < > Yes.  Make sure you rebuild shortly after booting.  I have systartup_vms.com , > submit a batch job that does the rebuilds. >  > > I > > What about system disks on one system which are MSCP mounted on other G > > systems?  I mount all disks on all nodes.  I don't actually use the B > > system disks on nodes to which they are MSCP served, but it is > > convenient for things like > > 7 > >    SYSMAN> DO SEARCH SYS$SYSTEM MODPARAMS.DAT VOTES  > > L > > Presumably, these should also be mounted with /NOREBUILD, though perhapsL > > it doesn't matter since the system to which the system disk has a directG > > connection will rebuild it if ACP_REBLDSYSD is set to 1 (as per the L > > recommendation) before another system has a chance to mount it---or am I > > wrong here?  > >  >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 13:41:50 GMT 3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond) 7 Subject: Re: Daylight to Standard Time Change via Batch 2 Message-ID: <y67qb.8440$Tf5.7745@news.cpqcorp.net>  L Although this suggestion does not address the issue of existing applciationsL which may not be practical to change, the issue of transaction serializationE might be better addressed by using GMT or UCT rather than local time. = This avoids the daylight/standard time change issue entierly.   D Even better is to use an application controlled transaction counter,D which avoids porblems from time changes for any reason.  (Digital's @ DBMS and RDB datasbase management systems used such a counter toE serialize journal records used for recovery and rollback.  I presume  / the ORACLE version of these producst still do.)  --  J       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 11:28:51 -0500 & From: David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com>7 Subject: Re: Daylight to Standard Time Change via Batch 8 Message-ID: <q69iqvs26ea3i5safcus92eu7q9mpdk8v2@4ax.com>  N On Tue, 04 Nov 2003 23:17:16 GMT, Rob Brown <mylastname@nospamgmcl.com> wrote:   >> Hoff Hoffman wrote: >>  D >>> In concert with the OpenVMS Engineer that is maintaining the TDFF >>> command procedures, I've tried to document how to do this stuff inE >>> the FAQ, and one of the key pieces listed in the FAQ is a request A >>> to not (directly) invoke the UTC$CONFIGURE_TDF.COM procedure.  > : >Can you clarify what you mean by "not (directly) invoke"? > A >SYS$EXAMPLES:DAYLIGHT_SAVINGS.COM invokes UTC$CONFIGURE_TDF.COM.   K Only on OpenVMS VAX, and on OpenVMS Alpha < V7.3. On OpenVMS Alpha V7.3 and @ higher, DAYLIGHT_SAVINGS.COM invokes/submits UTC$TIME_SETUP.COM.I ------------------------------------------------------------------------- I David M. Smith 302.391.8533                       dsmit115 at csc dot com I Computer Sciences Corporation     (Opinions are those of the writer only) I -------------------------------------------------------------------------    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 02:48:33 -0600 ( From: brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon)C Subject: Re: Does anyone shut down for system disk backup any more? 1 Message-ID: <03110502483352@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>   H > While restoring queue definitions is good, is there much of a point inP > restoring yesterday (or last week's) queue entries pointing to files which may > no longer exist ?   O I thought my suggestion was to move the queue database off of the system disk.  H Therefore eliminating the need to be concerned with stale entries when a0 backup/restore of the system drive is performed.   For example:   $1$DGA100 - SYSTEM DRIVE5   $1$DGA200 - SYSTEM DATA FILES (Queue DB, NET, ETC.)    $1$DGA300 - PAGEFILES    ...   J > Seems to me that taking a proper snapshot of the queue databases withoutL > entries and keeping that on tape would do the trick. After you restore theN > system disk, you opverwrite whatever queue database files had been backed upK > with the safe "empty" backup that would have queue definitiosn only. Your @ > applications must then resubmit whatever procedures they need.  N Your snapshot would still be stale - depending on how long your snapshot cycleK would be and though it still has potential for devastating impact.  However O this is not a bad idea for a Disaster Recovery Incident or database restoration  after a corruption. )                                                J*o*h*n B*r*a*n*d*o*n  VMS Systems Administrator * firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 10:54:50 GMT 5 From: rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) C Subject: Re: Does anyone shut down for system disk backup any more? L Message-ID: <rdeininger-0511030555220001@user-uinj4ft.dialup.mindspring.com>  E In article <03110421355602@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>, brandon@dalsemi.com  (John Brandon) wrote:   D >> SHOW DEVICE/FILE will show you what's open on a disk (on the nodeJ >> executing the command).  That's a few hundred files on a typical system	 >> disk.   > I >So I did a SHOW DEVICE /FILE of my system disk... I found the following:  >  >Make that 1,802 files open: >*.exe = 1,499 >*.com =    33 >*.log =   159 >*.tlb =    81 > 5 >Leaving 30 files (*.dat, *.out, *.err, *.dmp, .etc.)  > P >I look at it from this perspective - *.exe are not updated, *.com either, *.logN >who cares, *.tlb read only, so 30 files are left - ones I have not analyzed.   H I can think of 2 VMS-supplied  .EXE files that ARE modified, off the top of my head.    > N >If you properly plan your system disk and off-load what can be off-loaded youL >will lessen the risk and potentially increase your performance by doing so. > C >> Do you know which of them are (might be) written by the OS or an L >> application, and when?  Is it worth your time to figure it out, and track% >> all the changes as the OS evolves?  > L >What does the OS changes and evolution have to do with it?  I think this isN >called reading the "release notes" and understanding the impact that the nextJ >version of OS involves.  I think this needs to be done!  You upgrade yourL >system every 6 months or every two years?  Not much of a problem to spend aP >couple of days or even a week or two to understand what your upgrade plans will >impact.  It is a must.   I I'm particularly thinking about how future OS changes might alter details H of "static" versus "almost static" OS files.  If you understand the riskH of "live" backups at V7.3-1, will you be certain the risk hasn't changed at V8.2?    I >> Are there additional files that don't show up in SHOW DEVICE/FILE, but  >> which are actually "open"?  > O >No way.  Not possible.  Unless you mount your system disk on other systems and  >do stupid things to it.  5 I'd have to study the VMS source listings to be sure.     K >> Do you control your workload and users well enough to know the system is H >> absolutely "quiet" so you can attempt your on-line backup with a good >> chance of success?  > O >Can be done, however if you have users and applications on your system disk  - L >your bad risk.  And yes, it can be done and very easily through a number of	 >methods.  > M >> If you really know the system is "quiet", why not shut it all the way down K >> and do the BACKUP correctly?  There's little additional impact to users.  > 
 >Never quiet!   E An interesting experiment would be to find an old disk with an easily J accessible "write protect" button on the outside.  Boot up VMS from such aG disk, get your applications going (yes, even if they are on a different B disk), and then write protect your system disk.  I wonder how many2 components would start failing and/or complaining?    N >I tend to believe that a lot of the "got to do a SABU" stems from the old VAXM >version V5 years.  So much has changed since then so many advances made that , >the SABU issue has become less of an issue.  N Actually, I don't think that much has changed in the way VMS deals with disks.    M >I can not argue that the /IGNORE=INTER is the best solution, however it is a $ >close second and is worth the risk. > 3 >And of course, MY OPINION - your mileage may vary.   > Yup.  Someone else mentioned "religious war" in this thread...   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 10:59:04 GMT 5 From: rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) C Subject: Re: Does anyone shut down for system disk backup any more? L Message-ID: <rdeininger-0511030559380001@user-uinj4ft.dialup.mindspring.com>  2 In article <3FA8767A.B260D5CB@istop.com>, JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote:   >Robert Deininger wrote:D >> SHOW DEVICE/FILE will show you what's open on a disk (on the node >> executing the command). > N >SHOW DEV/FILES/NOSYS will give you a better listing, avoiding installed files< >which are extremely unlikely to have any write activity on.  H Installing a file does not mean it can't be written.  I know of at least* one installed file that is often modified.    I >> Are there additional files that don't show up in SHOW DEVICE/FILE, but  >> which are actually "open"?  > O >If that is the case, it would be a serious flaw in VMS and SHOW/DEV/"FILE. One N >must howevbere be careful about sporadic file access (open file, read record,F >close file) which would not likely show up at the time SHOW DEV/FILES would be issued.  G Lots of ways for privileged code to modify a disk without going through G the file system layer.  Do I know for certain that nothing like this is  happening?  No.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 11:06:30 GMT 5 From: rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) C Subject: Re: Does anyone shut down for system disk backup any more? L Message-ID: <rdeininger-0511030607040001@user-uinj4ft.dialup.mindspring.com>  E In article <03110502483352@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>, brandon@dalsemi.com  (John Brandon) wrote:   I >> While restoring queue definitions is good, is there much of a point in G >> restoring yesterday (or last week's) queue entries pointing to files 	 which may  >> no longer exist ? > P >I thought my suggestion was to move the queue database off of the system disk. I >Therefore eliminating the need to be concerned with stale entries when a 1 >backup/restore of the system drive is performed.   E True.  But the same questions arise when you want to back up the disk D containing the queue database. (Or SYSUAF, etc.)  If you have a veryJ active queuing system, and require very high availablility of same, "live"% backups will leave you open to risks.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 13:19:36 -0000 ! From: Z  <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> C Subject: Re: Does anyone shut down for system disk backup any more? / Message-ID: <vqhu78fbdbit34@corp.supernews.com>   + JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote: L : Oh, I just remembered. Yes. SHOW DEV/FILES only shows files opened on that' : node, it isn't a clusterwide command.   2 You can use SYSMAN and DO to make it cluster-wide.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 08:15:55 -0600 ( From: brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon)C Subject: Re: Does anyone shut down for system disk backup any more? 1 Message-ID: <03110508155559@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>   J > I can think of 2 VMS-supplied  .EXE files that ARE modified, off the top
 > of my head.   I Which ones?  I was not aware of this.  Why?  That seems a bit nuts to me.   K > I'm particularly thinking about how future OS changes might alter details J > of "static" versus "almost static" OS files.  If you understand the riskJ > of "live" backups at V7.3-1, will you be certain the risk hasn't changed
 > at V8.2?   True.   K > >> Are there additional files that don't show up in SHOW DEVICE/FILE, but  > >> which are actually "open"?  > > Q > >No way.  Not possible.  Unless you mount your system disk on other systems and  > >do stupid things to it. > 7 > I'd have to study the VMS source listings to be sure.   K Like you said in another thread that there are ways but... and I agree.  As M long as you (as in the user) do not do stupid things to/with your system disk & then you should be relatively safe...   H (Lots of ways for privileged code to modify a disk without going throughH (the file system layer.  Do I know for certain that nothing like this is (happening?  No.  O > >> If you really know the system is "quiet", why not shut it all the way down M > >> and do the BACKUP correctly?  There's little additional impact to users.  > >  > >Never quiet!  > G > An interesting experiment would be to find an old disk with an easily L > accessible "write protect" button on the outside.  Boot up VMS from such aI > disk, get your applications going (yes, even if they are on a different D > disk), and then write protect your system disk.  I wonder how many4 > components would start failing and/or complaining?  N I sold that equipment years ago.  If memory serves me correctly the OS did notO like it at all and system activity was suspended... but I have slept since then  and can not really be certain.  P > >I tend to believe that a lot of the "got to do a SABU" stems from the old VAXO > >version V5 years.  So much has changed since then so many advances made that . > >the SABU issue has become less of an issue. > P > Actually, I don't think that much has changed in the way VMS deals with disks.  O Much may not have changed with the disk structures - except the introduciton of N ODS-5 however I believe that V5.5 and on saw a number of changes in the backupM utility, mount (V7.2?7.3), also a number of methodologies were introducted to O allow you to move page/swap files, dump files, DECnet & TCPIP files, so on - so L on - off the system disk.  This made it possible to limit the number of openM files on the system disk - creating performance gains by spreading the load - M and subsequently lessoning the risk.  Now - that is a lot of changes, may not F be to the underlaying structures, but still a lot of positive changes.  O > >I can not argue that the /IGNORE=INTER is the best solution, however it is a & > >close second and is worth the risk. > > 5 > >And of course, MY OPINION - your mileage may vary.  > @ > Yup.  Someone else mentioned "religious war" in this thread...  ; Let the WAR begin?!  Just teasing... you have valid points.   N I have done a number of restores of the system drive from backups that use theH /IGNORE=INTER and have never had any issue in doing so.  From production' systems to test systems and back again.      J*o*h*n B*r*a*n*d*o*n  VMS Systems Administrator * firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 07:58:45 -0700 + From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> C Subject: Re: Does anyone shut down for system disk backup any more? ' Message-ID: <3FA91025.7070701@MMaz.com>    Z wrote:  & >Scott Vieth <svieth@wi.rr.com> wrote:E >: We've got a "procedure" in place where the computer operators shut F >: down our main VMS system once a month in the middle of the night toE >: backup the system disk.  They boot the Standalone Environment from 5 >: another disk and then backup the real system disk.  > + >: Does anyone still follow this procedure?  >.. G >: Should I just skip the "shutdown" and use the EVA to make a snapshot ; >: of the system disk?  Or just backup the system disk with  >: "/IGNORE=INTERLOCK"?  > H >I support a set of 365/24/7 transaction processing systems and I _only_H >make system backups after booting to CD.  I never back it up while it'sF >running with /ignore=interlock since there is a chance thatI will not >have a usable backup. >  >    > I Then you cannot be a 365/24/7 shop if you must bring everything down for   SA backups....   >That would be catastrophic. >  >    > F Yes it could, not would, if you had apps and user data on your system  disk, but you shouldn't...   Barry    --    > Barry Treahy, Jr                       E-mail: Treahy@MMaz.com> Midwest Microwave                          Phone: 480/314-1320> Vice President & CIO                         FAX: 480/661-7028                            ------------------------------   Date: 5 Nov 2003 11:48:43 -0600 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) C Subject: Re: Does anyone shut down for system disk backup any more? 3 Message-ID: <W6etp0Ztq4$Y@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <03110508155559@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>, brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon) writes:K >> I can think of 2 VMS-supplied  .EXE files that ARE modified, off the top  >> of my head. > K > Which ones?  I was not aware of this.  Why?  That seems a bit nuts to me.  >   G    DCLTABLES.EXE gets modified by many software installations to add or     update a command.  I    SYS.EXE gets modified every time you do a "set time=xxx" command, such C    as during a normal system shutdown.  That's where time time cell G    exists that gets checked against the battery powered hardware clock  I    during boot to determine whether VMS should use the hardware clock or      prompt for the time.   I    Some layered products maintain data in global sections backed by .EXE  	    files.   >    Howver, generally neither of these should be a problem for     /ignore=backup.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 17:54:01 -0000 ! From: Z  <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> C Subject: Re: Does anyone shut down for system disk backup any more? / Message-ID: <vqie9p8qvdk936@corp.supernews.com>   * Barry Treahy, Jr. <Treahy@MMaz.com> wrote:I :>I support a set of 365/24/7 transaction processing systems and I _only_ I :>make system backups after booting to CD.  I never back it up while it's G :>running with /ignore=interlock since there is a chance thatI will not  :>have a usable backup.   K : Then you cannot be a 365/24/7 shop if you must bring everything down for   : SA backups....  0 Not true.  SystemS ... as in multiply redundant.    H : Yes it could, not would, if you had apps and user data on your system  : disk, but you shouldn't...    Even if I don't (which I don't).  @ /IGNORE=INTERLOCK on the system disk while the system is running2 allows for possible corruption on the backup tape.   I will NOT risk that.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 02:53:45 -0600 ( From: brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon)W Subject: Re: Does anyone shut down for system disk backup any more? (Know Your System!) 1 Message-ID: <03110502534547@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>   L > Oh, I just remembered. Yes. SHOW DEV/FILES only shows files opened on that' > node, it isn't a clusterwide command.  > O > So it is perfectly possible to have a file appear to be closed on one node of N > a cluster, but generating lots of activity from another node in the cluster. > * > Know your system applies even more here.   Which is a very valid POINT!  N It is a bad idea to open files on a remote system or on another cluster systemN system-disk.  This is perfectly fine for shared data disks - that is the whole/ point of clustering and RMS - shared resources.      J*o*h*n B*r*a*n*d*o*n  VMS Systems Administrator * firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 08:21:16 -0600 ( From: brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon)Y Subject: Re: Does anyone shut down for system disk backup any more? (Know Your System!) S 1 Message-ID: <03110508211629@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>   K > > It is a bad idea to open files on a remote system or on another cluster 
 > > systemL > > system-disk.  This is perfectly fine for shared data disks - that is the > whole 3 > > point of clustering and RMS - shared resources.  > A > Then again, all of your systems may share the same system disk.    I keep forgetting about that... N I do not share my system disk amongst my clustered servers.  I keep one systemL disk for each server.  Pros and Cons both ways - however I felt it safer andO faster (yes more expensive) to do one disk per server then multiple servers per L one disk.  Today disks are cheap.  Back then when this technology was built  disks were not.      J*o*h*n B*r*a*n*d*o*n  VMS Systems Administrator * firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 04:08:39 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>Y Subject: Re: Does anyone shut down for system disk backup any more? (Know Your System!) S ) Message-ID: <3FA8BDDA.716D3323@istop.com>    John Brandon wrote: P > It is a bad idea to open files on a remote system or on another cluster systemP > system-disk.  This is perfectly fine for shared data disks - that is the whole1 > point of clustering and RMS - shared resources.   M I don't make a difference between a system disk and a data disk.  One need to * look at the type of activity on each disk.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 13:30:18 GMT & From: Joshua Cope <Joshua.Cope@hp.com>Y Subject: Re: Does anyone shut down for system disk backup any more? (Know Your System!) S & Message-ID: <3FA8FB00.A8273557@hp.com>   John Brandon wrote:  > P > It is a bad idea to open files on a remote system or on another cluster systemP > system-disk.  This is perfectly fine for shared data disks - that is the whole1 > point of clustering and RMS - shared resources.   ? Then again, all of your systems may share the same system disk.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 09:32:24 +0100 " From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>! Subject: Re: Erp running on Vms ? 2 Message-ID: <3fa8b5a4$0$232$636a55ce@news.free.fr>  N SAP gave up with VMS development in 1995 or so. It was the R/2 version. There M has been no R/3 version running under VMS so I doubt that they would move it   back to VMS one day, unless...   D.I (better source of info is Jose Antonio Hernandez, author of "The SAP R/3  + Handbook". JA is actually a former DECcie).    labadie wrote:  J > I know many customers are leaving Vms because they are moving to an Erp + > (Sap, Baan, Bpcs, Oracle applications...)  >  > Sap used to run on Vms.  >    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Nov 2003 08:28:21 -0800 0 From: keith.cayemberg@conti.de (Keith Cayemberg)! Subject: Re: Erp running on Vms ? = Message-ID: <3a65a5c8.0311050828.7159791e@posting.google.com>   7 Depending on your definition of ERP, one or more of the 5 following products working on/with OpenVMS may fit...   - Arel - Arel Total Management Solution (ATOMS) ( http://www.arel.com.au/main/products.htm   CODA* http://www.coda.com/solutions/Transact.asp  " SSA global - MANMAN/DEC and MAXCIM5 http://www.interbiz.com/solutions/erp/components.aspx = http://www.interbiz.com/gcf2003/presentations/session2308.ppt    ROSS Systems - iRenaissance  http://www.rossinc.com/ B http://www.rossinc.com/aview.asp?atype=W_PRO&id=1159&showexpired=1  D I am naturally not recommending any particular product, as I haven't1 used any of them. I'm just providing a few links.    Cheers!    Keith Cayemberg  ICA GmbH - Hannover, Germany    \ labadie <labadie_g@decus.fr> wrote in message news:<bo93c8$9bk$1@news-reader3.wanadoo.fr>...J > I know many customers are leaving Vms because they are moving to an Erp + > (Sap, Baan, Bpcs, Oracle applications...)  >  > Sap used to run on Vms.  > > > I wonder if there was an Erp available, today or in project. > N > I think it may be critical for the future of Vms (on Vax, Alpha or Itanium). > 	 > Regards  >  > Grard   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 11:00:02 +0100( From: "Rudolf Wingert" <win@fom.fgan.de>" Subject: Re: Full Duplex NIC cards: Message-ID: <MCELKPMOKPMNDNKJNIONIEECCFAA.win@fom.fgan.de>   Hello,  L we do have a lot of DE500. They all work very well with Alphas and PCs. AlsoP with the AlphaServer 1200. Normaly you should get collisions with the HalfduplexO mode. If you get collision during Fullduplex, something is wrong. Did you checkeL the parameter of both sites (host and switch)? Did you select the FullduplexJ mode manuell or via Autonegotiaten? Me be the physik will be a problem. InP Fullduplex mode the card will send and recieve a the same time. If you will haveM a very bad NEXT (bad RJ45 connector) or FEXT (if you have an patchfield), youeM will recieve a shadow of your sended message. This will be destroyed and lookdL like a collision. Once again, our DE500-BAs do work well within the FASTFULL mode.p   Best regards Rudolf Wingertt   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Nov 2003 07:39:11 -0800 . From: al5vf03p02@sneakemail.com (William Webb)* Subject: Re: newbie problem installing VMS= Message-ID: <d5ce4b06.0311050739.147c433f@posting.google.com>Y  v koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote in message news:<wH0NR9GGt5kx@eisner.encompasserve.org>...X > In article <3FA6DB93.EF82902B@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes: > > WiseLYNX wrote:rK > >> DKA200   RZ2       A/2/0/00  DISK       104 MB  FX          RZ23  0A18 L > >> DKA400   RZ4       A/4/0/00  RODISK     547 MB  RM          CDRM0011.0g >  i* > >> $backup dka400:vms072.b /save dka200: > >>  . > >> and here is the (unespected) error I get: > >> sJ > >> %SYSTEM-I-MOUNTVER, SABKUP$DKA400: is offline.  Mount verification in > >> progress. > > R > > One thing you need to add is /IMAGE since you want the B saveset to generate a[ > > bootable dka200 drive. However, the lack of /IMAGE wouldn't generate the error message.n > J >    Standalone BACKUP always implies /IMAGE.  Something is wrong with his >    CDROM, or it's settings.i  C At the risk of sounding like the kid who suggests that you let someEA air out of the tires to dislodge the truck that's stuck under the % bridge, your DKA200 is a 104MB drive.m  E IMHO, any attempt to do an /IMAGE restore is destined to fail becauseSF any reasonably recent version of VMS is going to expect, nay, require, a much larger restore target.-  # Have a look at the OpenVMS 7.3 SPD-0  C Start at about page 41 for the tables that discuss what hardware isn
 supported. RZ23's aren't.    2 http://h18000.www1.hp.com/info/SP2501/SP2501PF.PDF  9 You either need a bigger disk or an older version of VMS.s' I'd suggest an RZ26 if you can find it.   F Don't go any bigger than 1GB (RZ28, RZ29) as it won't work as a system' disk on your VAXstation.  (See the FAQ)i  < If you haven't found it yet, I put the Owner's Guide for the
 VAXstationF 3100 Model 76 online (everybody please forgive the poor coding, it wasF done by hand instead of being scanned and fed to some abomination like FrontPage):e  B While your model may vary, at least *some* of what's in there will apply to	 your box.r  5 http://www.whiteice.com/~williamwebb/intro/Doc-i.htmlo   Hope this helps-   WWWebb h   ========================! William W. Webb- EMS Operations, o OpenVMS Systems Support % USPS DSSC Annex - 4730 Hargrove Road i( Raleigh, NC 27616-2874 919.325.7500x4186E * * * -      email is first initial last name at email stop usps stop1 govw   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 07:41:18 -0800# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>:* Subject: RE: newbie problem installing VMS9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIGEJPIHAA.tom@kednos.com>b   >-----Original Message-----i6 >From: William Webb [mailto:al5vf03p02@sneakemail.com]+ >Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 7:39 AMo >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com+ >Subject: Re: newbie problem installing VMSs >  >s? >koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote in 8 >message news:<wH0NR9GGt5kx@eisner.encompasserve.org>...5 >> In article <3FA6DB93.EF82902B@istop.com>, JF Mezeia$ ><jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes: >> > WiseLYNX wrote:L >> >> DKA200   RZ2       A/2/0/00  DISK       104 MB  FX          RZ23  0A188 >> >> DKA400   RZ4       A/4/0/00  RODISK     547 MB  RM >CDRM0011.0g >>+ >> >> $backup dka400:vms072.b /save dka200:e >> >>s/ >> >> and here is the (unespected) error I get:a >> >>dK >> >> %SYSTEM-I-MOUNTVER, SABKUP$DKA400: is offline.  Mount verification in1 >> >> progress.  >> >= >> > One thing you need to add is /IMAGE since you want the B  >saveset to generate a@ >> > bootable dka200 drive. However, the lack of /IMAGE wouldn't >generate the error message. >>K >>    Standalone BACKUP always implies /IMAGE.  Something is wrong with his  >>    CDROM, or it's settings. >rD >At the risk of sounding like the kid who suggests that you let someB >air out of the tires to dislodge the truck that's stuck under the& >bridge, your DKA200 is a 104MB drive. >fF >IMHO, any attempt to do an /IMAGE restore is destined to fail becauseG >any reasonably recent version of VMS is going to expect, nay, require,n >a much larger restore target. > $ >Have a look at the OpenVMS 7.3 SPD- >kD >Start at about page 41 for the tables that discuss what hardware is >supported.l >RZ23's aren't.l >e3 >http://h18000.www1.hp.com/info/SP2501/SP2501PF.PDF  > : >You either need a bigger disk or an older version of VMS.( >I'd suggest an RZ26 if you can find it. >aG >Don't go any bigger than 1GB (RZ28, RZ29) as it won't work as a systemp( >disk on your VAXstation.  (See the FAQ)  K I once had a 2GB drive on a model 76 for the system drive.  I can't say foraJ certain, but if you don't put anything else on so as to exceed 1GB of used( space, then it may work.  It did for me.   >l= >If you haven't found it yet, I put the Owner's Guide for thei >VAXstationEG >3100 Model 76 online (everybody please forgive the poor coding, it wasoG >done by hand instead of being scanned and fed to some abomination likel >FrontPage): >uC >While your model may vary, at least *some* of what's in there willr	 >apply toT
 >your box. >C6 >http://www.whiteice.com/~williamwebb/intro/Doc-i.html >u >Hope this helps-h >a >WWWebbr >P >========================h! >William W. Webb- EMS Operations,  >OpenVMS Systems Support% >USPS DSSC Annex - 4730 Hargrove Roadt) >Raleigh, NC 27616-2874 919.325.7500x4186pF >* * * -      email is first initial last name at email stop usps stop >gov >- >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.v; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).pB >Version: 6.0.530 / Virus Database: 325 - Release Date: 10/22/2003 >  ---g& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A Version: 6.0.530 / Virus Database: 325 - Release Date: 10/22/2003r   ------------------------------  * Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 09:56:22 -0600 (CST) From: sms@antinode.org* Subject: Re: newbie problem installing VMS) Message-ID: <03110509562256@antinode.org>n  # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>a  M > I once had a 2GB drive on a model 76 for the system drive.  I can't say forAL > certain, but if you don't put anything else on so as to exceed 1GB of used* > space, then it may work.  It did for me.  G    You should read the FAQ, which explains what the problem is, and why.E everything always works fine on the affected systems, until something1 goes wrong.v  H    On the other hand, a too-small destination disk drive would not causeD the problem reported by the original poster (CD-ROM drive going into: mount verification).  He hasn't gotten to that bridge yet.  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-orgs    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547e   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Nov 2003 16:31:45 GMTo, From: bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)* Subject: Re: newbie problem installing VMS: Message-ID: <bob8lh$1bj214$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>  ) In article <03110509562256@antinode.org>,t 	sms@antinode.org writes:L >  > J >    On the other hand, a too-small destination disk drive would not causeF > the problem reported by the original poster (CD-ROM drive going into< > mount verification).  He hasn't gotten to that bridge yet.  @ Getting back to his original problem, as the owner/operator of aB number of VS3100's I have seen that error on many occaisions.  TheC only solution I have found so far is to resort to a known supportedhD CD Drive.  Mitsumi or Toshiba seem to come to mind.  OK, I just went@ in the computer room and looked.  I am using Toshiba XM-4101B's.   bill   -- dJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   r   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 09:25:55 +0100l" From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>/ Subject: Re: OpenVMS i64 missing in HP WEB pagei4 Message-ID: <3fa8b420$0$11226$636a55ce@news.free.fr>   Robert Deininger wrote:o  5 > If you're replying to me, I'm not Bob.  I'm Robert.I Sorry.   D.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 09:23:42 -0000* From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>* Subject: Re: OT: an example of a modern OS+ Message-ID: <boafiv$pke@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>u  [ "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message news:3FA7F520.EDD5DE87@istop.com...h  L > The VMS implementation of X may be obsolete because engineers haven't beenY > given permission to bring it up to current standards, but that doesn't make X obsolete.   Q Sigh. Shouldn't that be "I'm pleased to see that VMS engineering have brought thee, X implementation on VMS up to date at last"?   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Nov 2003 03:20:25 -0800a. From: fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso)* Subject: Re: OT: an example of a modern OS= Message-ID: <f30679fb.0311050320.443387bb@posting.google.com>t  [ JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message news:<3FA7F520.EDD5DE87@istop.com>...t > Fabio Cardoso wrote:G > > How about the GUI ? You shouldnt forget that these PDAs operatinge3 > > systems are orientated to the User Interfacing.a > O > Interestingly, in the case of Symbian OS, they unbundled the GUI from the OS.oI > There are primitives and that is it. Each mobile phone manufacturer hassL > adopted its own GUI layer to give their phones a distinctive look/feel for > competitive reasons. >  > > The lack of OVMSA > > nowadays is a good graphical/fast windowing system. Of course-? > > there is the Open/X Graphic stuff but for me its obsolete.- > I > If X is so obsolete, how come linux is based on it ? How come Apple now  > supports it in its OS-X ?  > L > The VMS implementation of X may be obsolete because engineers haven't beenY > given permission to bring it up to current standards, but that doesn't make X obsolete.e  O Well ! I was trying to say that there arent many users using OpenVMS X/Windows:H applications. Or they still using VT terminal or Web based applications.K If HP develop another VT/GUI etc...with the characteristics of thin client,T should be good.    Regards'   FC   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 06:57:15 -0500c* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>* Subject: Re: OT: an example of a modern OS) Message-ID: <3FA8E553.F414F761@istop.com>o   Richard Brodie wrote: S > Sigh. Shouldn't that be "I'm pleased to see that VMS engineering have brought then. > X implementation on VMS up to date at last"?   Isn't it still at 1.2 for VAX ?   A And I think that Alpha is getting an upgrade to 1.5 when other HP- implementations of X are at 2.1-   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Nov 2003 02:36:53 -0800 & From: jimcooper2177@yahoo.com (Jim C.)' Subject: Re: Patrol x Decnet Managementr= Message-ID: <b7abc07a.0311050236.49d5d764@posting.google.com>-  $ maybe AdRem Netcrunch will help you. Jim-   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Nov 2003 06:14:49 -0800 1 From: joe.lofft@itec.mail.suny.edu (Joseph Lofft):9 Subject: Re: Piping X-Windows traffic over ssh on OpenVMS < Message-ID: <de82e5e4.0311050614.1b1dfa9@posting.google.com>  v koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote in message news:<U8F7Tu+JbYP$@eisner.encompasserve.org>...s > In article <de82e5e4.0311041108.1e8523ea@posting.google.com>, joe.lofft@itec.mail.suny.edu (Joseph Lofft) writes: F > > Does anyone have an example setup of how to pipe X-Windows trafficC > > over SSH on OpenVMS.  I have not been able to acomplish this on + > > OpenVMS the way it can be done on UNIX.1 > ( >    Sure, if you tell us what you want. > H >    Are you trying to connect using VMS as the X server or client?  The/ >    ssh server or client?  Which TCP/IP stack?  > I >    Or in plainer speak, what commands are you trying to do (or emulate)s >    on what platform? > D >    For a complicated example, I have a fellow SSH from a local VMSH >    system to a remote VMS system, starting an X11 client which tunnelsD >    back to the local VMS system and then gets pushed onto his VXT.E >    That's non-trivial and probably more complex than what you need.  > I >    A very common problem is a login.com that does a set display commandaD >    based on the needs of a non-SSH connection.  That wipes out the6 >    correct display which SSH provides automatically.  F I need to run Oracle's Universal Installer program to install databaseD code.  I have no problem getting remote X connections loggin in with telnet and doing:4  : $ set display/create/transport=tcpip/node=1.2.3.4/server=1  C I can then run whatever X application I need.  However I have found F that when I am working with remote sites, the response time with theseE applications is deathly slow, due to network congestion.  What I havesA foudn on UNIX is that when you pipe the X traffic through SSH theo response time is much better.   7 This is what I am attempting to do on VMS with no luck.s   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Nov 2003 11:59:14 -0600f; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)89 Subject: Re: Piping X-Windows traffic over ssh on OpenVMS13 Message-ID: <Yr81lD9wPvKL@eisner.encompasserve.org>u  p In article <de82e5e4.0311050614.1b1dfa9@posting.google.com>, joe.lofft@itec.mail.suny.edu (Joseph Lofft) writes: > H > I need to run Oracle's Universal Installer program to install databaseF > code.  I have no problem getting remote X connections loggin in with > telnet and doing:  > < > $ set display/create/transport=tcpip/node=1.2.3.4/server=1 > E > I can then run whatever X application I need.  However I have foundcH > that when I am working with remote sites, the response time with theseG > applications is deathly slow, due to network congestion.  What I haveeC > foudn on UNIX is that when you pipe the X traffic through SSH the  > response time is much better.  > 9 > This is what I am attempting to do on VMS with no luck.a  D    Other than do _not_ do the set display command, SSH should set itA    for you, I don't see any problem.  You set up X11 tunneling onvE    the X11 server end the same as you would for UNIX (generally it's uD    in the SSH client on a desktop box or in the SSH command on otherA    systems).  Then when you connect the display should be set for C    you to the VMS system (not the X11 server) with a display numbert    of about 10 or so.y  @    I'm assuming you're doing the telnet or ssh directly from the*    X11 server, not through a third system.  8    Why SSH would run faster than naked X11 is a mystery.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 18:14:53 -0000* From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>9 Subject: Re: Piping X-Windows traffic over ssh on OpenVMSd+ Message-ID: <bobemu$u30@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>>  H "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:Yr81lD9wPvKL@eisner.encompasserve.org...n  : >    Why SSH would run faster than naked X11 is a mystery.   Compression.  8 http://keithp.com/~keithp/talks/usenix2003/html/net.html   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Nov 2003 10:46:30 -0800e. From: Jack.Trachtman@vmmc.org (Jack Trachtman) Subject: SAN Switch Issues= Message-ID: <69d784c4.0311051046.3a4394ce@posting.google.com>e  5 We have an HP StorageWorks SAN using first generation 6 switches (Brocade 2800s at 1Gb).  We have two pairs of7 switches, each pair interconnected with an ISL.  We aret7 about to purchase additional switches and would like toi2 get the new generation (Brocade 3800? at 2Gb).  My1 question is, how can I combine our 2800s with theI2 3800?  Can I break the present ISL and put the new  switch between the old switches?4 Any suggestion/experiences would be helpful. Thanks.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 13:59:34 -00003 From: "Tom Wade" <t.wade@vms.eurokom.removespam.ie>f6 Subject: Re: To foreign or verb ? That is the question* Message-ID: <boauti$s0s$1@kermit.esat.net>  : "David B Sneddon" <dbsneddon@bigpond.com> wrote in message$ news:3FA850C0.9020102@bigpond.com...  D > We use PCSI to distribute our application.  The target systems runA > various versions of VMS and we link the executables on the user G > machines.  What makes you think you can't link as part of a PCSI kit?   E Because the last time I asked this question here, the answer was "you L shouldn't be doing this anyway".  I am delighted to hear it is possible, and$ I'll have a read of the PCSI manual.  K Another related PCSI question which someone might be able to confirm.  If IaL want to check the value of SYSGEN parameters, I can do so in a VMSINSTAL kitL by suitable lexicals and output warning messages.  PCSI seems to have a callK for checking SYSGEN parameters, but it seems to output a "must be a minimum J of" message for *all* checked parameters, even if the values are OK.  ThisK seems a pretty useless feature.  Can it output only the ones that are *not*i in the correct range ?  ? ---------------------------------------------------------------V< Tom Wade             | EMail: tee dot wade at eurokom dot ie? EuroKom              | X400:  g=tom;s=wade;o=eurokom;p=eurokom; / Unit A2              |        a=eirmail400;c=iei/ Nutgrove Office Park | Tel:   +353 (1) 296-9696w/ Rathfarnham          | Fax:   +353 (1) 296-9697V< Dublin 14            | Disclaimer:  This is not a disclaimerC Ireland              | Tip:   "Friends don't let friends do Unix !"k   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 14:14:28 -00003 From: "Tom Wade" <t.wade@vms.eurokom.removespam.ie>36 Subject: Re: To foreign or verb ? That is the question* Message-ID: <boavpk$thk$1@kermit.esat.net>  0 "Hoff Hoffman" <hoff@hp.nospam> wrote in message, news:avYpb.8421$q55.1825@news.cpqcorp.net...  G >   While all manner of odd stuff is possible underneath PCSI, trackingaF >   and uninstalling of locally-built tools can be interesting.  (PCSIE >   doesn't necessarily know about these locally-built files, and cansB >   become accordingly tangled during deinstallation or upgrades.)  J Presumably this is only true for PCSI and not for VMSINSTAL ?  Perhaps theI only reliable de-installer is one that is written by the same person thate wrote the application itself.r  F >   rather worse, resolving errors in site-built code can be even moreH >   interesting, as the site environment can differ and perturb linking,F >   and as the resulting maps may or may not be available for decoding >   tracebacks.i  G True, but freeware stuff tends to get recompiled and relinked anyway (I-H always prefer to recompile and relink from source I and other people can3 see, if it's not coming from a vendor I can trust).o  2 >   I prefer to provide a set of pre-built images.  I Which is OK if you're talking about a commercial product that is formallyeK supported on a definite set of VMS versions.  For freeware, I don't want tohJ have to maintain a large range of old versions, on each of which I have toF build an image for a kit.  Also, multiple images makes the kit bigger.K Multiply the number of versions by 2 (for Alpha, or 3 when Itanium arrives): and it gets rather unwieldy.   >  If there is a chanceeG >   that there are other versions required, I prefer to provide sourcesfG >   (if that is appropriate) or to provide object modules, and a set of  >   linking procedures.t  E But once relinked by such a procedure, your earlier point about localyG environment still applies.  There  is little difference between linking L during the install and relinking afterwards, apart from making it easier for	 the user.-  1 >I prefer to seperate the installation steps fromV? >   the build and from the configuration steps, in other words.   F Reasonable enough, and VMSINSTAL certainly allows you to do this.  TheG question is should developers be *forced* to do this in all situations.   ? ---------------------------------------------------------------o< Tom Wade             | EMail: tee dot wade at eurokom dot ie? EuroKom              | X400:  g=tom;s=wade;o=eurokom;p=eurokom;t/ Unit A2              |        a=eirmail400;c=iet/ Nutgrove Office Park | Tel:   +353 (1) 296-9696 / Rathfarnham          | Fax:   +353 (1) 296-9697i< Dublin 14            | Disclaimer:  This is not a disclaimerC Ireland              | Tip:   "Friends don't let friends do Unix !"    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 14:11:59 GMT>4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>3 Subject: Re: VMS in pole position in an HP WEB pagen0 Message-ID: <3FA9047E.CDC25BD5@blueyonder.co.uk>   Larry Kilgallen wrote: > Y > In article <3fa75b4b$0$241$636a55ce@news.free.fr>, Didier Morandi <no@spam.com> writes:a( > > Scroll to "Platforms and technology"B > > http://h71028.www7.hp.com/enterprise/cache/4244-0-0-0-121.aspx > ) > Using Netscape Navigator 4.75-20000815,dM > under "Platforms and technology" I see a black box big enough to hold text.cK > Looking at the source, I see VMS would have been there.  Perhaps the flaw = > is one of the 28 errors found by http://validator.w3.org/ .t  N These, days, people either seem to laugh at me or shrug when I say "it doesn't work with netscape 4.7.a   :-( RIP www. -- s tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 11:07:59 +0000hO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> - Subject: Re: VMS not mentioned by HP....againt0 Message-ID: <boalmf$f7l$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   JF Mezei wrote:g* > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: > B >>HP's itanium ISV web site contains loads of ringing endorsementsA >>for Itanium/HP but very little deliverable product and where it-> >>is available its mostly development tools and HPC type apps. >  > J > In fairness, one has to give time for all those applications to start toP > appear.  On the other hand, until customers actually see an advanateg going toO > that IA64 thing, ISVs will continue to target the more popular platforms suchIQ > as Pa Risc and Alpha with that IA64 thing seen just as a pilot project for now.o >   > Itanium has been available since 2001, HP-UX on Itanium ditto.   How long do they need ??   Regardso Andrew Harrisonn   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 14:04:46 GMT.4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>- Subject: Re: VMS not mentioned by HP....againu0 Message-ID: <3FA902CD.BE79EC72@blueyonder.co.uk>   John Smith wrote:r >   n > N > Somebody ought to take HP's Kathy Sowards and all her departmental colleagueL > into a classroom and make them write on the blackboard 1000 times "OpenVMSK > is the best operating system HP offers and I will NEVER forget to mention,F > that anytime I meet with the press, industry analysts, or customers,I > existing or prospective."  And once Kathy and her pals are done, carly,:J > Blackmore, Fortier, Stallard, Marcello, Gorham, Blatz, and other 'suits'- > ought to be forced to do the same thing....  >   N and you will make enough money to buy HP and enforce your policy how, exactly?  E > And if the classroom exercise doesn't work, we take them behind then > woodshed......  ;-)    --   tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 09:24:22 -0500& From: "Island" <dbturner@islandco.com>" Subject: We need your DS10 Systems/ Message-ID: <vqi22lk0o1gcba@news.supernews.com>t  = We are paying good money for your DS10 466 and 617Mhz systemsm  9 Or we can swap 2 x DS10L 617Mhz for your DS10 (any speed)h   Regardsr   -- w David B Turner Island Computers US Corporationt 2700 Gregory St., Suite 180c Savannah GA 31404  Tel: 912 447 6622a Fax: 912 201 0402o Email: dbturner@hpaq.net http://www.hpaq.net.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 12:01:15 -0500( From: Wayne Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com>& Subject: Re: We need your DS10 Systems/ Message-ID: <00A2871C.FA517FC5.2@tachysoft.com>   ' >From: "Island" <dbturner@islandco.com>v >X-Newsgroups: comp.os.vms# >Subject: We need your DS10 SystemsC% >Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 09:24:22 -0500- >Organization: island computers 0 >Message-ID: <vqi22lk0o1gcba@news.supernews.com>      > >We are paying good money for your DS10 466 and 617Mhz systems >l  M Yes, we know, having seen the earlier posts.  Why not up the frequency to oneg- post every 31 seconds?  That oughta cover it. O ===============================================================================nN Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738   wayne@tachysoft.com; http://www.tachysoft.com/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html   eO ===============================================================================iH Randolph Duke (in Trading Places): "Mother always said you were greedy."1    Mortimer Duke: "She meant it as a compliment!"x   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 14:02:48 GMTt# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>h? Subject: Will any of them ask where the OpenVMS advertising is?tJ Message-ID: <cq7qb.142407$7B1.113475@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  9 http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=03/11/03/6559033l  ) HP's Americas Field Conference Draws nearH  0 November 17 - 20, 2003: MGM Grand, Las Vegas, NV    G HP's Americas Field Conference is HP's annual sales meeting where 5,000 F sales people from the United States, Latin America, and Canada will beK attending. This year's agenda includes general sessions with Carly Fiorina,9E Peter Blackmore, Ann Livermore, Duane Zitzner, Vyomesh Joshi, and therH SVP/GMs of the Americas businesses. There will also be training breakout) sessions and major theater presentations.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 12:27:10 +0000n* From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]>$ Subject: Re: [OT] FedEx, UPS or DHL?' Message-ID: <boaq95$pf9$1@lore.csc.com>e  
 Island wrote:   . > We ship every day International and domestic > ; > Out of our experiences, Fedex is the only one we use now.p" > In 5 years we have had one claim > N > If you are shipping stuff to the USA from France or UK it normally gets here > by 9:00am the next morning >  > Davidi  F I do have to second that, it is amazingly fast. When you've sent out aG load of PO's, on the same day you get emailed an expected delivery date4H from some suppliers, you fall over the box just dropped off with "Island Computers" stamped all over it!u  E I would add though, that you would need to carefully check the importlE [USA] regulations, there is quite a bit of paperwork filling doing itiE "the other way". FedEx are OK with the paperwork in faxing it to you,iF but it would be nice if they had PDF or some other format available onE the website (more than just the commercial invoices). Of course it ishC dependent on what you are importing, so let the shipper help you bysG being specific. e.g. just saying "computer parts" is not sufficient, if / (say) computer memory specifically is involved.i   -- c? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencest nclews at csc dot comr   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.614 ************************