1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 07 Nov 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 617       Contents: Re: An update on 'CPU WARS'  Re: An update on 'CPU WARS'  Re: An update on 'CPU WARS'  Re: An update on 'CPU WARS' 2 Re: Configuration Question TCP/IP Services for VMS2 Re: Configuration Question TCP/IP Services for VMSP Re: CONVERT/SHARE (was Does anyone shut down for system disk backup any more?) m" cURL 7.10.8 available for download. Re: Daylight to Standard Time Change via Batch. Re: Daylight to Standard Time Change via Batch3 Re: DECWindows clock off by one hour (DST problem). 3 Re: DECWindows clock off by one hour (DST problem). * Displaying control characters in X-windows: Re: Does anyone shut down for system disk backup any more?: Re: Does anyone shut down for system disk backup any more?: Re: Does anyone shut down for system disk backup any more?: Re: Does anyone shut down for system disk backup any more?: Re: Does anyone shut down for system disk backup any more?: Re: Does anyone shut down for system disk backup any more?: Re: Does anyone shut down for system disk backup any more?: Re: Does anyone shut down for system disk backup any more?: Re: Does anyone shut down for system disk backup any more?: Re: Does anyone shut down for system disk backup any more?: Re: Does anyone shut down for system disk backup any more? Re: Erp running on Vms ? Re: Erp running on Vms ?' Re: Expected transfer speeds using DSSI ' Re: Expected transfer speeds using DSSI # Re: Find former DECcies companies ? ' FREE INSTANT ON-LINE HEALTH PLAN QUOTES  Re: Full Duplex NIC cards  Re: Full Duplex NIC cards  Re: network of supporters + Novell buying Suse, IBM investing in Novell / Re: Novell buying Suse, IBM investing in Novell  Open source DBM's  Re: Open source DBM's  Re: Open source DBM's P Re: OpenVMS I64 documentation (was: Re: Where's the full list of ports to IA-64?& Re: OpenVMS i64 missing in HP WEB page& Re: OpenVMS i64 missing in HP WEB page0 Re: Piping X-Windows traffic over ssh on OpenVMS Re: Printing from OPENVMS ( Re: QIO Function code for Telnet device.( SEDT text editor for MS-DOS for download# VAX to AIX NFS Problem Please HELP! ' Re: VAX to AIX NFS Problem Please HELP! ' Re: VAX to AIX NFS Problem Please HELP! ' Re: VAX to AIX NFS Problem Please HELP! , Re: Where's the full list of ports to IA-64?, Re: Where's the full list of ports to IA-64?, Re: Where's the full list of ports to IA-64?" RE: [OT] - VAX9000 (was: Re: VUP?)" Re: [OT] - VAX9000 (was: Re: VUP?)" Re: [OT] - VAX9000 (was: Re: VUP?)G Re: [OT]: Microsoft putting up $5 million reward to catch cybervillains G Re: [OT]: Microsoft putting up $5 million reward to catch cybervillains C Re: [semi-OT] SCSI jumpers (was: Re: newbie problem installing VMS)   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2003 16:59:04 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) $ Subject: Re: An update on 'CPU WARS'3 Message-ID: <f8a9aUQ7OX07@eisner.encompasserve.org>   U In article <3FA9EBFE.30604@tsoft-inc.com>, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:   D > There is a rumor that Microsoft told Intel that another 64 bit x86Q > implementation would not be supported by windows, thus implying that any 64 bit N > x86 CPU produced by Intel had better be compatable with HAMMER.  While IntelR > would prefer to have uncompatable CPUs and use it's muscle to do in AMD, if it'sN > CPU would not run windoz, then that duck is so dead that it was never alive.  G Thus it behooves Intel to support Itanic to the hilt in order to retain  their proprietary advantage.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 18:13:03 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>$ Subject: Re: An update on 'CPU WARS') Message-ID: <3FAAD570.BFF3D601@istop.com>    Larry Kilgallen wrote:I > Thus it behooves Intel to support Itanic to the hilt in order to retain  > their proprietary advantage.    J This it behooves HP to get as many manufacturers to produce IA64 things soR that it can fullfil the HP promise of making IA64 commodity and industry standard.  N Right now, IA64 has every aspects of a proprietary low volume chip and none ofN the commodity and "industry standard" aspects HP was really hoping for when it. put all its eggs into the unwoven IA64 basket.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 23:59:12 -0500 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>$ Subject: Re: An update on 'CPU WARS', Message-ID: <3FAB26A0.3010305@tsoft-inc.com>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:  W > In article <3FA9EBFE.30604@tsoft-inc.com>, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:  >  > D >>There is a rumor that Microsoft told Intel that another 64 bit x86Q >>implementation would not be supported by windows, thus implying that any 64 bit N >>x86 CPU produced by Intel had better be compatable with HAMMER.  While IntelR >>would prefer to have uncompatable CPUs and use it's muscle to do in AMD, if it'sN >>CPU would not run windoz, then that duck is so dead that it was never alive. >> > I > Thus it behooves Intel to support Itanic to the hilt in order to retain  > their proprietary advantage. >   P Come on Larry.  The issue here is market share.  Even Intel seems to be backing O off of IA-64 being a commodity.  If Intel conceeds the desktop, and much else,  P to AMD, well, I know that you know just how big DEC was at one time.  AMD could N become the new gorilla, and Intel lucky to be the chimp.  Hey, maybe HP could 1 buy them also, after they're run into the ground.   Q Intel appears to be trying to prop up IA-64, but, if AMD sells thousands of CPUs  N for each IA-64 sold, Intel will not have anything with which to prop up IA-64.  N Recent events point to Opteron and Athlon/64 being poised to do to Intel what O IA-32 did to so many of the competition.  Intel can't stand for this to happen  N without some kind of a fight.  They're not as stupid as Palmer/Capellas/et al.  L Being a VMS person, I'm not saying I like seeing IA-64 in such a precarious K situation, but sticking my head in the sand won't change reality.  It sure   didn't save VAX and Alpha.   Dave   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 01:20:13 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>$ Subject: Re: An update on 'CPU WARS') Message-ID: <3FAB3972.4F09A89A@istop.com>    David Froble wrote: O > Recent events point to Opteron and Athlon/64 being poised to do to Intel what P > IA-32 did to so many of the competition.  Intel can't stand for this to happenP > without some kind of a fight.  They're not as stupid as Palmer/Capellas/et al.  J And Intel's logical answer is a 64 bit 8086 compatible with AMD's but with' added features for large scale systems.   N The minute Intel admitted that IA64 wouldn't be able to fully replace the 8086' (the original plan), IA64 was doomed.     L It isn't very logical for Intel to continue to spend mega money to develop 2K competing architectures, especially when the low volume oen is very complex 6 and requires lots of compiler work to make it perform.  J I think Intel may have been betting/hoping AMD would go under before beingM able to complete/release the 643 bit 8086. But now that that problem won't go N away, Intel doesn't have much of a choice but to also admit it was developping a 64 bit version of the 8086.   F The only question in my mind is whether Intel will folk the enterpriseI features into its 8086, removing any reason for IA64 to exist, or whether K Intel will purposefully cripple the 64 bit 8086 to leave a niche market for M the IA64. But then, with an even smaller niche market for IA64, the economics * of the chip will be even worse than Alpha.  I I have another question in my mind: What type of information exchange and J strategy sharing/planning would happen between Intel and HP.  Carly must aL good actress if she can meet with Groves in the morning to discuss migrationN strategy from IA64 to 8086 and in the afternoon, make some public presentation? to HP employees extoling the vertues and bright future of IA64.   N I think that Intel will move in such a way as to permit lots of face saving at< HP when the move from IA64 to 8086 is "gradually" announced.  H Another option would be for a "coup d'tat" to happen, ousting Carly andN friends, and the new folks at the helm admitting IA64 was mistake and allowingN Intel to cancel happily cancelling it (saving both Intel and HP tons of money)& with a quick migration to 64 bit 8086.  E On the other hand, it remains quite possible that HP will continue to D singlehandledly fund IA64's development with Intel happily acting asM contractor for design and fabbing of chip. HP's enterprise systems would then J rely on some obscure, low volume, expensice proprietary chip (IA64), whichK wouldn't be too different from HP relying on Pa-Risc in the past or Digital G relying on VAX or Alpha. (Tandem relied on a more commodity MIPS chip).   N I am not affraid for Intel though. They won't allow themselves to be ousted asL the "premier" chip maker and will gladly sacrifice their IA64 child in order% to keep their 8086 leadership intact.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 14:04:54 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>; Subject: Re: Configuration Question TCP/IP Services for VMS ) Message-ID: <3FAA9B56.1BE5CED3@istop.com>   ! VAXman-, @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: L > I've also taken a recent foray into wireless 802.11b+g which I need to add > to the /internet page.  G To quote one of the Bond girls: "Boys with toys"... :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2003 19:24:38 -0800 + From: tdreher@economweb.com (Thomas Dreher) ; Subject: Re: Configuration Question TCP/IP Services for VMS < Message-ID: <fa2e75be.0311061924.557020c@posting.google.com>  ) Dear JF Mezei, Didier Morandi and Vaxman, D I would like to thank you all for your support and the comprehensiveF answers to my question. With your Information, I could get it to work.  E I updated to TCP/IP Services 5.1, changed the Alphas IP Address to be C in the same subnet, configured the Alpha to a static address, added  the routing information.C Also, I discovered that the NIC in the Alpha did not work with RJ45 F port and rewired to my old configuration and connected a BNC thin wire to the hub.   / Thanks again, best regards and "long live VMS!"    Thomas   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 16:46:30 -0600 ( From: brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon)Y Subject: Re: CONVERT/SHARE (was Does anyone shut down for system disk backup any more?) m 1 Message-ID: <03110616463006@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>     Thanks!  I have changed my ways.  Q > Use convert/share. Do NOT use back/ignore=interlock if you care about the data.  > J > Convert/share will ganrantuee you a 'wholesome' file, with fully updated
 > records. > Q > It will only not garantuee time arrival order. It walks records by primary key.  > M > So if a single business event updates a high key first, and a low key next,  > thenN > the old instance of the low key record might already be in the new file, and > the P > data will be inconsistent from an application perspective. This is normally no5 > problem for SYSUAF, VMSMAIL_PROFILE, RIGHTSLIST,...  > Q > With backup/ingore = interlock, you may (albeit very unlikely) actually be able N > to read a partialy updated record (needs fragmented buckets and a lot of bad > luckl) > P > It is also relatively easy to catch a file in movement, with internal pointers > being E > updated, making the output useless. Not just inconsistent, useless. O > Still, you can often get away with it as most system apps do not use deferred  > write  > L > and rms uses carefull writes, writting target objects first before writing
 > pointers > to it.N > But if you place the careful writes against a non-interlocked sweep over vbn > space Q > then I coudl still see this go wrong creating for example a loop at data level.  >  > Hein.        J*o*h*n B*r*a*n*d*o*n  VMS Systems Administrator * firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2003 16:10:54 -0600 4 From: kuhrt@nospammy.encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt)+ Subject: cURL 7.10.8 available for download 3 Message-ID: <HjF63ZmZxh6e@eisner.encompasserve.org>   E 7.10.8, the latest version of cURL and the cURL library, is available B for downloading at http://curl.haxx.se/download.html .  cURL is a E hand program and set of utilities for handling URLs (ftp, http, etc). F The zip file on that site contains a precompiled curl.exe and curl.olb* made with Alpha VMS V7.3 and DECC 6.5-001.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 14:23:03 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>7 Subject: Re: Daylight to Standard Time Change via Batch ) Message-ID: <3FAA9F96.43C94AE1@istop.com>    Charlie Hammond wrote:J > No "might" about it.  But how do you maitain compatibility with existingH > systems?  Including RMS, for example.  (Including years of backups and > other history.)     K RMS wouldn't break. Wouldn't the only impact be that DIR/FULL would display A dates that are in GMT format ? (ok, and you'd have to specify all  /AFTER/BEFORE in GMT form.  H But right now, there is nothing preventing me from setting my systems in montreal (-5) to GMT.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 19:06:25 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> 7 Subject: Re: Daylight to Standard Time Change via Batch ' Message-ID: <3FAAF011.497A2DC9@fsi.net>    Charlie Hammond wrote: > ) > In article <3FA9A8E2.A3E9CE0E@fsi.net>, 5 > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:  > H > >... The issue in my case is date/time stamps for medical records. ... > J > Including the zone and daylight/standard information with the time stampM > would seem to solve this.  Given the legal issues relative to such records, C > I would not want to stamp them with a time known to be incorrect.   4 Offer that suggestion over at http://www.cerner.com/   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 18:46:49 GMT 3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond) < Subject: Re: DECWindows clock off by one hour (DST problem).2 Message-ID: <tGwqb.8560$ZY6.7518@news.cpqcorp.net>  I On Thu, 6 Nov 2003 10:49:29 +0100, "Fred Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@KVI.nl> wrote:  ..@ >(I suspect that the DAYLIGHT_SAVINGS procedure still forgets toJ >update one or more  logicals, which are set correctly at system startup.)B >The questions is, can this be repaired without rebooting and how?  C If you look at SYS$EXAMPLES:DAYLIGHT_SAVINGS.COM you will find the   following comment:  F $!  The following logical names are NOT [re]set and will be deassignedF $!  if they are present (They are not present on VAX and pre 7.3 Alpha+ $!  OpenVMS systems unless DTSS is in use.)  $!$ $!      SYS$TIMEZONE_DAYLIGHT_SAVING $!      SYS$TIMEZONE_NAME  $!      SYS$TIMEZONE_RULE   L You can save/remember the values of SYS$TIMEZONE_NAME and SYS$TIMEZONE_RULE,& and re-set them using DEFINE/SYS/EXEC.I You can similarly reset SYS$TIMEZONE_DAYLIGHT_SAVING to "0" (for STANDARD $ time) or to "1" (for DAYLIGHT time).  & Or you can execute UTC$TIME_SETUP.COM.  E DAYLIGHT_SAVINGS.COM *may* be modified in a future release of OpenVMS 7 to do this for you so that these logicals are not lost.    --  J       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 18:00:12 -0500& From: "Chris Moore" <just@my.twocents>< Subject: Re: DECWindows clock off by one hour (DST problem).9 Message-ID: <8nAqb.9686$fg4.348105@news20.bellglobal.com>   G Anything that uses the 'C' RTL functions will be affected by the system  logical:   SYS$TIMEZONE_DIFFERENTIAL   L rather than the apparent system clock time. We had a FORTRAN routine callingH a C routine that displayed this type of discrepancy on the screen if the differential was missed.  : The value of that logical is in seconds of offset from UTC> (e.g. EST is currently "SYS$TIMEZONE_DIFFERENTIAL" = "-18000")  K You can use UTC$CONFIGURE.com to correct it without hitting the clock as in  the following example / just used for setting to Eastern Standard Time: 3     @sys$manager:UTC$CONFIGURE_TDF "SET" "-300" "0" H     => the last parameter is usually +60 or -60 to reset the local clockH time as well; zero just adjusts logicals and leaves the clock time alone (-300 = UTC-5hrs)   I I don't know why the routine looks for minutes, while the logical is then E set as seconds ..... just one of those mysteries of life I guess.....       ; "Martin Kirby" <martinkirby12@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message 6 news:224291b.0311060917.615464e9@posting.google.com...: > What version of OpenVMS and what version of DECwindows ? > G > DECW$CLOCK uses the C RTL functions "time" and "localtime" to get the B > time data. Prior to DECwindows V1.3 it was supported on pre-V7.1D > systems so must have used the non-UTC versions of these functions.F > For V1.3 it is only supported on V7.3-1 so it may, but I don't know,8 > have changed to use the UTC versions of the functions. > F > If you restart DECW$CLOCK does it show the correct time, i.e. may beD > something cached in the process execution, or the wrong time, i.e.; > it is something that drives the non-UTC C rtl functions ?  >  > Martin Kirby > 2 > "Fred Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@KVI.nl> wrote in message* news:<bod503$san$1@info.service.rug.nl>...5 > > After the recent change from DST to non-DST time, 7 > > I have redefined the MULTINET, PMDF en SYS timezone > > > logicals. I also ran the SYS$EXAMPLES:DAYLIGHT SAVINGS.COM3 > > to update these logicals for the whole cluster.  > > @ > > It seems that most application now display the correct time,C > > but apparently something is still missing. E.g., the DECWindows C > > clock (SYS$SYSTEM:DECW$CLOCK.EXE) is one hour off. (It has been E > > set back two hours instead of one hour!) A few other applications  > > have the same problem.F > > For those systems that have rebooted since the change, it displays > > the correct time. C > > (I suspect that the DAYLIGHT SAVINGS procedure still forgets to C > > update one or more  logicals, which are set correctly at system 
 > > startup.) E > > The questions is, can this be repaired without rebooting and how?    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 00:41:53 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>3 Subject: Displaying control characters in X-windows ) Message-ID: <3FAB3077.DB6FF846@istop.com>     DECterm can't, but DECW$TPU can.  J So, how does one go about displaying control characters in a text window ?  I For instance, if I write an application that displays contents of printer D setup modules, I would very much want to be able to provide a visual/ representation of the control characters in it.    Any hints on how this is done ?    ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 20:08:09 +0000 (UTC)7 From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) C Subject: Re: Does anyone shut down for system disk backup any more? ( Message-ID: <boe9n9$dgp$4@pcls4.std.com>  = koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:   ] >In article <03110508155559@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>, brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon) writes: L >>> I can think of 2 VMS-supplied  .EXE files that ARE modified, off the top >>> of my head.  >>  L >> Which ones?  I was not aware of this.  Why?  That seems a bit nuts to me. >>    H >   DCLTABLES.EXE gets modified by many software installations to add or >   update a command.   J DCLTABLES really doesn't get modified by this.  The installation procedureG creates a _new_ DCLTABLES (DCLTABLES.EXE;N+1) and (tries to) delete the G old version.  That's why ANALYZE/DISK on the system disk often turns up I a bunch of "deleted" DCLTABLES.EXE, there is always some process that has H the old one still open after an installation at the next shutdown/crash.  I If you do a $ BACKUP/IGNORE=INTERLOCK to backup your system disk and want G to know where you are at risk, do $ BACKUP/VERIFY/IGNORE=INTERLOCK.  It E *will* fail to verify due to things like OPERATOR.LOG growing between A the backup and verify passes, but you *will* have a list of files H that have changed.  Several .LOGs, ERRLOG.SYS, the accounting files etc.E Look these files over, is it OK if they aren't consistent if you have  to restore from that backup?   --   -Mike    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 14:02:11 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>C Subject: Re: Does anyone shut down for system disk backup any more? ) Message-ID: <3FAA9AB3.914EDE83@istop.com>    Mike Rechtman wrote:J > Basic question has already been asked: If your system is critical enoughC > to be up 24x365, then surely you should be _entirely_ sure of the 1 > quality of your backups, not 'reasonably' sure?   H It also depends on how dynamic your system is. When you have a few fixedJ applications with users having access only to those, it is quite differentN from having students given the $ sign to write, test new applications, receive emails etc.   M In the first case, it is much easier to know the system, know which files are K "hot", which are just there as read only archives, etc. In the second case, M you will have a whole bunch of new files, deleted files and you can't predict ) which files students would create/delete.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 14:20:14 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>C Subject: Re: Does anyone shut down for system disk backup any more? ) Message-ID: <3FAA9EED.82E3C256@istop.com>   ) Here is a different twist to the problem:   J How feasable would it be to have the drive as a shadow set. Then, when youN need to make your backup, you run a procedure that SET PROC/SUSP every processM except the core processes and your own, you then dismount one of the members, M and then SET PROC/RESUME every process that you had suspended. (you'd need to Y keep track fo those since you don't want to resume a process that was already suspended).   G When one does a SET PROC/SUSPEND, does it allow IOs to indexed files to G complete to ensure that the index is OK ? Would the above garantee file & integrity from the OS point of view ?   L (I realise that it wouldn't solve the problem of an application writing halfM the transaction to one file, but being suspended before it wriotes the second  half to another file).  N It would seem to me that if you could suspect activity for a couple of secondsK while you split a shadow set, the system would then resume with very little  noticeable impact.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 14:47:48 -0700 + From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> C Subject: Re: Does anyone shut down for system disk backup any more? % Message-ID: <3FAAC184.20500@MMaz.com>    JF Mezei wrote:   * >Here is a different twist to the problem: > K >How feasable would it be to have the drive as a shadow set. Then, when you O >need to make your backup, you run a procedure that SET PROC/SUSP every process N >except the core processes and your own, you then dismount one of the members,N >and then SET PROC/RESUME every process that you had suspended. (you'd need toZ >keep track fo those since you don't want to resume a process that was already suspended). > H >When one does a SET PROC/SUSPEND, does it allow IOs to indexed files toH >complete to ensure that the index is OK ? Would the above garantee file' >integrity from the OS point of view ?   >  >    > A The problem is that if you are dealing with mulitple files and a  ; transaction commit has not occurred, you are still corrupt.    Barry    --    > Barry Treahy, Jr                       E-mail: Treahy@MMaz.com> Midwest Microwave                          Phone: 480/314-1320> Vice President & CIO                         FAX: 480/661-7028                            ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 14:54:57 -0800* From: "Jack Peacock" <peacock@simconv.com>C Subject: Re: Does anyone shut down for system disk backup any more? 2 Message-ID: <jtqdnccHEKTfTDeiRVn-gg@mpowercom.net>  6 "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> wrote in message news:3FAAC184.20500@MMaz.com...  > > B > The problem is that if you are dealing with mulitple files and a= > transaction commit has not occurred, you are still corrupt.  > I How is dismounting a shadow member any different than a power failure (or L any failure that shuts the hardware down immediately)?  Is the potential forD corruption less or more than a machine crash?  It seems to me that aK graceful dismount would represent a snapshot at a relatively clean point in J a database trx log, since the drive would be flushed when it's dismounted.  K If the parameters of the problem are apps that can't stop, and some type of J database that doesn't have backup APIs (for instance RMS indexed files andK no journaling), the best possible solution is to dismount a shadow copy for J a good backup at a specific point in time.  That was the solution we choseJ for casinos, which never, ever close (some places don't even have doors onI the outside entrance) and do have 24 hr/day transaction activity (and are I cheap when it comes to computers too).  Early morning after the overnight J audit was slow enough to allow for a rebuild after breaking the shadow setH for the backup.  Ideally it should have been a 3 disk set but the budgetL wasn't big enough for an extra storage shelf (did I mention *really* cheap).    Jack Peacock    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2003 18:24 CST. From: carl@nospam.gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)C Subject: Re: Does anyone shut down for system disk backup any more? 3 Message-ID: <6NOV200318245912@nospam.gerg.tamu.edu>   1 Mike Rechtman <michael.rechtman@hp.com> writes... I }Basic question has already been asked: If your system is critical enough B }to be up 24x365, then surely you should be _entirely_ sure of the0 }quality of your backups, not 'reasonably' sure?B }Of course you could always restore a previous backup, and and oneI }previous to that ... until you hit a good one, with a decreasing risk of 7 }failure. But it sounds inconvenient and open to error.  }  }Mike   C You know thosee backup tapes you made by shutting down your system? D If you are _entirely_ sure that they are good, then you know nothing about tapes and tape drives.    I There is a distinctly non-zero chance that any given tape is not useable. L There is also a distinctly non-zero chance that your tape drive could mangleD the tape when you go to restore it. These things happen. Fortuantely they don't happen very often.   J There is also a distinctly non-zero chance that your tape is only readableJ on the drive that created it due to alignment problems. This could be very: bad if your tape drive is repaired, replaced, or upgraded.  F There are probably several more such factors than indicate that if youG are _entirely_ sure that those backups of yours are restorable then you " are ignorant of how reality works.  H The odds of an /IGNORE=INTERLOCK backup being bad are small. Very small,D usually. If you use CONVERT/SHARE to make clean copies of SYSUAF andG other such files before running the abckup, the odds of the backup as a F whole being unrestorable are probably not significantly worse than theJ odds of your "_entirely_ sure it is good" tape going bad or being shredded> by your tape drive or other such unfortunate events happening.  F There are many factors to consider. I think that in most cases doing aF backup while the system is up is a very good plan. You should also getC clean backups by booting from the CD when it is practical to do so.   H Backups that are slightly less reliable than those produced in the ideal' case are vastly superior to no backups.   G If you can schedule down time for a "boot from CD" backup once or twice G per year, do you not think that it might be a good plan to at least try   to get backups in between those?  F Do you avoid brushing your teeth between visits to the dentist because? brushing your teeth doesn't clean them as good as the dentist's A cleanings, or do you brush them anyway because "not as good" is a  lot better than "not at all"?    --- Carl   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 02:33:25 GMT 5 From: rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) C Subject: Re: Does anyone shut down for system disk backup any more? L Message-ID: <rdeininger-0611032134030001@user-uinj0p8.dialup.mindspring.com>  3 In article <5NOV200320582416@nospam.gerg.tamu.edu>, / carl@nospam.gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) wrote:   B >Given a choice between doing a backup at time X that has a slightC >chance of being bad and not doing a backup at time X at all, doing  >it is the better option.    I absolutely agree with this.   K My concern is that folks are sometimes very casual about /IGNORE=INTERLOCK.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 02:37:42 GMT 5 From: rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) C Subject: Re: Does anyone shut down for system disk backup any more? L Message-ID: <rdeininger-0611032138200001@user-uinj0p8.dialup.mindspring.com>  
 In articleF <2D75787AAF09C64481BDFD89113BE6D502D06A22@ac2kama0102.ac.lp.acml.com>,6 "Bochnik, William J" <William_Bochnik@acml.com> wrote:  B >Hmmm here's an idea for tha paranoid - do a disk to disk with theL >/ignore=interlock; capture which files return a warning, then do a shutdown >and only back up those.....    I This is an absolutely TERRIBLE idea.  /IGNORE=INTERLOCK doesn't even give D a warning in every case where a file is not consistently backed up. J Particularly in a cluster, /IGNORE bypasses the very mechanisms that wouldG let BACKUP detect the unwanted conditions.  BACKUP/IGNORE=INTERLOCK can D and does remain completely SILENT while failing to make a good copy.   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2003 21:23 CST. From: carl@nospam.gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)C Subject: Re: Does anyone shut down for system disk backup any more? 3 Message-ID: <6NOV200321230766@nospam.gerg.tamu.edu>    In article <rdeininger-0611032138200001@user-uinj0p8.dialup.mindspring.com>, rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) writes... }In article G }<2D75787AAF09C64481BDFD89113BE6D502D06A22@ac2kama0102.ac.lp.acml.com>, 7 }"Bochnik, William J" <William_Bochnik@acml.com> wrote:  } C }>Hmmm here's an idea for tha paranoid - do a disk to disk with the M }>/ignore=interlock; capture which files return a warning, then do a shutdown  }>and only back up those.....  }  } J }This is an absolutely TERRIBLE idea.  /IGNORE=INTERLOCK doesn't even giveE }a warning in every case where a file is not consistently backed up.  K }Particularly in a cluster, /IGNORE bypasses the very mechanisms that would H }let BACKUP detect the unwanted conditions.  BACKUP/IGNORE=INTERLOCK canE }and does remain completely SILENT while failing to make a good copy.    Add a /VERIFY.    E If that doesn't complain, then the file isn't inconsistent unless you E hit some astronomically far out event that made it inconsistent in an 7 identical way on two different passes through the disk.    --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 23:22:40 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>C Subject: Re: Does anyone shut down for system disk backup any more? ) Message-ID: <3FAB1DED.EC4B8216@istop.com>    not-Bob Deininger wrote:L > Particularly in a cluster, /IGNORE bypasses the very mechanisms that wouldI > let BACKUP detect the unwanted conditions.  BACKUP/IGNORE=INTERLOCK can F > and does remain completely SILENT while failing to make a good copy.    M Ok, then the VMS engineers should be given some priority in devising a modern J way to safely backup a 24/365 system since that seems to be one of the fewH remaining market niches where VMS still has a big edge over competitors.  N Remember thatr backups are not only in case of disk failures, but also in caseI of user or application problems which require you go back to a previously  known-to-be-good copy.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 22:35:02 -0700n+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com>eC Subject: Re: Does anyone shut down for system disk backup any more?r' Message-ID: <3FAB2F06.3060004@MMaz.com>e   Jack Peacock wrote:n  7 >"Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> wrote in messagee  >news:3FAAC184.20500@MMaz.com... >  o >)B >>The problem is that if you are dealing with mulitple files and a= >>transaction commit has not occurred, you are still corrupt.t >> >>     >>J >How is dismounting a shadow member any different than a power failure (orM >any failure that shuts the hardware down immediately)?  Is the potential for E >corruption less or more than a machine crash?  It seems to me that aoL >graceful dismount would represent a snapshot at a relatively clean point inK >a database trx log, since the drive would be flushed when it's dismounted.  >s >  n >hI Your cleaver editing is taking my statement out of context.  My comments tE where in response to someone suggesting that processes be suspended, kC shadows broken, and then backed up.  Suspending a process does not rH guarantee that all completed transactions have been committed or rolled  back...t   Barry    -- d  > Barry Treahy, Jr                       E-mail: Treahy@MMaz.com> Midwest Microwave                          Phone: 480/314-1320> Vice President & CIO                         FAX: 480/661-7028                        e   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 21:43:10 +0100  From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>! Subject: Re: Erp running on Vms ?r2 Message-ID: <boebv2$8d5$1@news1.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>   Mike Naime wrote:lK > I didn't know that Oracle left VMS.  We have Oracle Parallel Server (OPS)B > running our App on VMS.   Q Oracle Applications is a kind of financial software package. The Oracle database eE   products have never left VMS. (unfortunately Oracle Forms did ....)    > I > Can you explain what you mean by ERP?  I do not understand the Acronym.  > / > labadie <labadie_g@decus.fr> wrote in message . > news:bo93c8$9bk$1@news-reader3.wanadoo.fr... > I >>I know many customers are leaving Vms because they are moving to an ErpN+ >>(Sap, Baan, Bpcs, Oracle applications...)P >> >>Sap used to run on Vms.' >>> >>I wonder if there was an Erp available, today or in project. >>D >>I think it may be critical for the future of Vms (on Vax, Alpha or >  > Itanium).P > 	 >>RegardsV >> >>Grard >> >  >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 02:50:04 GMTe% From: "Mike Naime" <mnaime@kc.rr.com> ! Subject: Re: Erp running on Vms ?a5 Message-ID: <wLDqb.427$Vu6.214@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>(  ; Keith Cayemberg <keith.cayemberg@conti.de> wrote in message-7 news:3a65a5c8.0311060554.69a1b370@posting.google.com...eH > Oracle Classic and Oracle Rdb are not leaving OpenVMS! Oracle has over+ > 80% of the OpenVMS-based database market.s >-I > I suppose you can use either on OpenVMS as the backend database for thetE > Oracle Applications Suite. With the SQL*NET Middleware (OCI/Net 8),sJ > Oracle Rdb appears to the world to be an Oracle Classic database. AlmostH > all Oracle tools, languages, Web-integration, and third-party productsJ > will work with Oracle Rdb. So if you have an ERP Package that can attachC > to Oracle Classic using OCI, you can probably use it to attach toMD > Oracle Classic or Oracle Rdb on OpenVMS. Whether the configurationE > is certified or supported is another question best made directly to  > the ERP supplier.i > D > You can find a definition of ERP at the TechWeb Encyclopedia here:E > http://content.techweb.com/encyclopedia/defineterm?term=erp&x=0&y=0oH > ----------------------------------------------------------------------F > (Enterprise Resource Planning) An integrated information system thatB > serves all departments within an enterprise. Evolving out of theB > manufacturing industry, ERP implies the use of packaged softwareB > rather than proprietary software written by or for one customer.A > ERP modules may be able to interface with an organization's owns@ > software with varying degrees of effort, and, depending on theE > software, ERP modules may be alterable via the vendor's proprietarylA > tools as well as proprietary or standard programming languages.- >-D > An ERP system can include software for manufacturing, order entry,> > accounts receivable and payable, general ledger, purchasing,@ > warehousing, transportation and human resources. The major ERP= > vendors are SAP, PeopleSoft, Oracle, Baan and J.D. Edwards.fD > Lawson Software specializes in back-end processing that integrates- > with another vendor's manufacturing system.iD > ------------------------------------------------------------------  # Keith:  Thanks for the explanation!b  J By the definition stated above, our Application(s) would be an ERP for the( Healthcare sector with Clients worlwide.  7 Last that I checked, we where in VMS for the long haul.h   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 19:10:31 GMTc/ From: brooks@cuebid.zko.dec.nospam (Rob Brooks)t0 Subject: Re: Expected transfer speeds using DSSI- Message-ID: <mTk8XPn0d7n9@cuebid.zko.dec.com>k  9 Timothy Kupp <tkupp@entlinux.no.sasktel.spam.net> writes:d  I > One thought that occurred to me: I'm wondering if we're somehow hitting J > the 1000 I/Os per second limit of the HSD10 cabinet.  How do you monitor > the I/O rate of an HSD10?l > % > Anyone have any suggestions/advice?h  " How much cache do your HSD's have?   -- r  M Rob Brooks    VMS Engineering -- I/O Exec Group     brooks!cuebid.zko.dec.coml   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 03:24:16 -0000O7 From: Timothy Kupp <tkupp@entlinux.sasktel.no.spam.net>A0 Subject: Re: Expected transfer speeds using DSSI/ Message-ID: <vqm430qfs34514@corp.supernews.com>f  ' Nic Clews <spamthis@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:C > Timothy Kupp wrote:  >> VAX 7000  >> VMS 5.5-2 >> k4 >> Hardware      Advertised speed        Description4 >> --------      ----------------        -----------I >> KFSMA         4MB/s per port          DSSI adapter card with two ports B >> HSD10         3MB/s                   cabinet for SCSI devices;? >>                                         connects to DSSI bust< >> TZ88          1.5MB/s uncompressed    SCSI DLT tape drive# >>               2.5MB/s compressed < >> RZ29?         9MB/s?                  4GB SCSI hard drive >> s > % > I've cut the description details...R > I > The first thing I would ask, is have you looked at/read and acted upon t5 > the OpenVMS article that talks about BACKUP tuning?d  G Yes, we've tried various parameter changes on the backup command, quotat. changes for the account doing the backup, etc.  J > Even with this behind your belt, and assuming you're fully patched as a J > 5.5-2 can be, BACKUP today on the most recent versions gives you around C > 90% of the total available bandwidth as a maximum, with no other tB > mitigating factors. However I'm talking VMS 7.2 / 7.3 and Alpha. > K > Some of the factors which could be working against you are, even if your vH > BACKUP process was tuned optimally, file fragmentation, memory paging B > issues, other system activity or misconfiguration / incorrectly F > configured factors, and even the potential of hardware issues which = > don't generate errors (e.g. wide SCSI operating at narrow).h  E We've defragged drives, but that made no difference.  I don't believesF we're having a page fault problem, either, but I'm going to check that specifically again.   K > And after having said all that, BACKUP is a "pull" and "push" operation, aD > reads from source to fill buffers, then writes the buffers to the K > output, and repeat until done, so the input and output device will never sI > be 100% busy. The tuning of the process makes the best of that "middle e
 > buffering".  > K > We will take it as read that your BACKUP command is using an appropriate eK > block size for the medium concerned and you are also aware that there is tG > an approximate 11-12% overhead for error recovery data using default aD > settings, but this could be different. If the block size above is N > something you've never considered, then stop right now and check that first.  h7 Already have tested backup using different block sizes.e  K > If this is causing you a problem, then perhaps you should look at either tK > implementing a CI solution, or radically, and probably preferably, using ,I > Nemonix UltraSCSI directly connected devices. DSSI is for a 7000 class eH > VAX definitely a bottleneck, and you don't even say if your HSD10 has D > cache or not. Personally, I'd opt for removing the DSSI connected I > storage (it may be used for cluster comms, you've not said either way) e- > and putting in the XMI boards from Nemonix.t  E I'm quoting from memory, but I believe our HSD10s have 16MB of cache.e   Thanks for your suggestions.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 15:22:35 -0500 ' From: "Wayne W. Scott" <wscott@nac.net> , Subject: Re: Find former DECcies companies ?& Message-ID: <3FAAAD8B.1000202@nac.net>  M this might help too --> http://networking4.eliyon.com/Networking/Default.asp?i   Wayne Scotta     Jim Brankin wrote: > You could try  >  > http://www.decalumni.com/e >   > it is a site for ex-DEC folk.  >  > Jim  >  > ` > Didier Morandi <no@spam.com> wrote in message news:<3faa3168$0$13295$626a54ce@news.free.fr>... > N >>How can I find worldwide former DECcies who created their companies and are 9 >>still doing business today with VAX, such like Nemonix?  >>	 >>Thanks,t >> >>D. >>-- b< >>           Read the last VAX/VMS to Itanium Migration NewsE >>     English: www.didiermorandi.com/vms/vaxvms2itanium_200311en.pdf-E >>      French: www.didiermorandi.com/vms/vaxvms2itanium_200311fr.pdfe >>H >>didier morandi  ~ sarl au capital de 8 000 euros ~  Revendeur agr HPE >>     Expertise en environnement DIGITAL ~ Formation ~ ProgrammationoH >>Offshore ~ 5 av. A. Durand 31700 Blagnac France. Tl: 33(0)5 6131 6287F >>   SIRET 448 694 851 00016 RCS Toulouse http://www.didiermorandi.com >    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 02:52:14 GMTv' From: firstchoice@firstchoicehealth.neto0 Subject: FREE INSTANT ON-LINE HEALTH PLAN QUOTES8 Message-ID: <yNDqb.22810$KY1.5150@twister.austin.rr.com>  + --_NextPart_0000942B-000021FB-01D04D73-F437w Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitd  ' FREE INSTANT ON-LINE HEALTH PLAN QUOTES   & Visit http://www.firstchoicehealth.net  . WIDE VARIETY OF OPTIONS, PRICES, AND PROVIDERS  % COMPARE PLANS AND CHOOSE A PLAN RIGHT  FOR YOU AND YOURSs- --_NextPart_0000942B-000021FB-01D04D73-F437--A   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 11:44:15 -07008 From: "Michael D. Ober" <obermd-.@.-alum-mit-edu-nospam>" Subject: Re: Full Duplex NIC cards0 Message-ID: <4Ewqb.39$Fa7.21078@news.uswest.net>  @ This was the solution.  Going into LANCP and setting the card toJ autonegotiate cleared the messages.  I also received a message after a fewJ seconds about the negotiated speed and duplex settings (100 Full).  We hadK also been having other IP problems that all went away when the card stopped C spending its time processing autonegotiate packets from the switch.l  H With the responses I got here, I was able to get a tech at HP support toH realize that the card wasn't in autonegotiate.  Note that the LANCP Show7 Device /Parameters doesn't show the autonegotiate flag.   B Thanks to all who helped, both in this group and via direct email.  L And, yes, I consider "NIC Card" to be redundant, but the English language isH full of these types of redundancies.  (OT, look up "flect" in the Oxford> English Dictionary - it has the same definition as "reflect").  
 Mike Ober.    7 "Reinhard Eigner" <antispam@garnix.de> wrote in messaged) news:bo8oor$rid$04$1@news.t-online.com...f > K > "Michael D. Ober" <obermd-.@.-alum-mit-edu-nospam> schrieb im Newsbeitrag + news:JUQpb.465$gZ6.14926@news.uswest.net... H > > We have an AlphaServer 1200 5/533 running OpenVMS V7.3-1.  The DE500 card ineJ > > the server is constantly reporting collisions in full duplex mode.  In half> > > duplex mode, no collisions are reported.  Three questions: > >i >mG > Do you have enabled auto-negotiationon SRM or do set the interface tor FastFD?@D > I had the same problem with a PWS600au (Miata MX5). When I set the	 interfacelG > to FastFD I got a lot of collisions - the collision LED on the switch  blinks all the time. >dH > As I set the Interface to Auto-Negotiate everything works fine and the
 Interface ran  > with 100 Mbit/s full duplext > 
 > Reinhard >a >i   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2003 17:42 CST. From: carl@nospam.gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)" Subject: Re: Full Duplex NIC cards3 Message-ID: <6NOV200317424399@nospam.gerg.tamu.edu>3  2 al5vf03p02@sneakemail.com (William Webb) writes...h }Paul Anderson <paul.anderson@hp.com> wrote in message news:<051120031530061743%paul.anderson@hp.com>...D }> Isn't saying "NIC card" sort of like saying "ATM machine" or "PIN }> number"?i }> y }> Pauls }  }  }It's quite simple, actually.a } E }If we called them "NI" cards, we'd receive "shrubberies" by mistake.t }  }WWWebbn  ? Most people just call them "network cards" or "ethernet cards".i  D (Well, technically most people never call them anything. Most of the9 people on the planet still never use computers directly.)m   --- Carl   ------------------------------  " Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2003 23:16:00 GMT+ From: Abdul Bin Ahmad <yhidtuf@egizwil.org> " Subject: Re: network of supporters/ Message-ID: <7b9b558a.ae9b0ad8@news.kucrid.org>C  4 On 6 Nov 2003 23:16:00 GMT, Zack@izibjahy.org wrote: >  >Rethink the Cool + the Shoe >n> >phil knight had a dream.  he'd sell shoes.  he'd sell dreams.2 >he'd get rich.  he'd use sweatshops if he had to. > < >then along came a new shoe.  plain.  simple.  cheap.  fair.2 >designed for only one thing:  kicking phil's ass. >  >the unswoosher  >lG >$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$  > > >For years, Nike was the undisputed champion of logo culture, . >its swoosh an instant symbol of global cool.  >.= >Today, Phil Knight's Nike is a fading empire, badly hurt by d: >years of "brand damage" as activists and culture jammers B >fought back against mindfuck marketing and dirty sweatshop labor. > C >Now a final challenge. We take on Phil at his own game - and win. aC >We turn the shoes we wear into a counterbranding game. The swoosh o/ >versus the anti-swoosh. Which side are you on?c >.D >Adbusters has been doing R&D for more than a year, and guess what? = >Making a shoe - a good shoe - isn't exactly rocket science. rA >With a network of supporters, we're getting ready to launch the r= >blackSpot sneaker, the world's first grassroots anti-brand. i. >You can help launch the blackSpot revolution. >S >THE BIG QUESTION: >N= >        Is it possible to take Phil Knight's billion-dollar wA >        marketing momentum and, in a quick judo-like move, slap e> >        him onto the mat with the power of his own PR thrust? >p? >OUR KICK-ASS MARKETING STRATEGY >> http://blackspotsneaker.orgD >IG >$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$  > A >buy it............................preorders@blackspotsneaker.org, >nA >sell it...........................wholesale@blackspotsneaker.orgI >OA >invest in it......................investors@blackspotsneaker.orgI > A >support it........................donations@blackspotsneaker.orgS >MA >join the jam........................jammers@blackspotsneaker.orgy >s9 >        Make a straight donation... it's a worthy cause  9 >        with the potential to set an historic precedent A8 >        that could be repeated in other industries and 9 >        usher in more grass roots version of capitalism  9 >        in which megacorps do not control every area of - >        our children's lives. >:@ >https://www.groundspring.org/donate/index.cfm?ID=2217-0%7C742-0 >dG >$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$1 >n   If the cold stickers can hate absolutely, the inner barber may behave more springs. She wants to behave new cans under George's morning.z Until Valerie cooks the envelopes nearly, Orin won't jump any urban showers. Bob, have a fresh onion.  You won't cook it. - Tell Pervis it's urban expecting over a smog.m   -- Abdul Bin Ahmadt        " must ask why is it that ever afterB such a long time, leaders and ordinary secret service workers haveD failed to educate people about the real problem, looks like not manyH leaders (unlike Bush) were really looking for solution desperately, mostB of them were there just to pass the time. It also seems that wrong> approach was taken in past to educate people about the issues.  H Like Iraq and many Muslim countries are now run by Jews who using MuslimD minds and affiliation as weakness to turn people against west who isC facing the same problem on her side, instead of working on the realmE problem saving our generation and land from corruption, faithlessnesso and mediocrity.   B Secondly when Emergency protocol is in place, you must use reverseB logic, Terrorists does not mean Muslims, please don?t be paranoid,G terrorists are the one who are real threats to United States and EuropedF and they are not Muslims. It is not Iraq that is being discussed it is Israel.e  H Thirdly like Muslim countries their generals, economy and AdministrationD is controlled by Jews and like secret service in your country scaresF you, it scares them over there too. The problem is you forgot to learnG to be direct and honest about the situation, but learned to fear and bec	 indirect.h  H US economy is not in the state where they can really afford a war sadly,H there economy is facing decline, but I don?t think they have learned theB right approach to solve the problem, directly and honestly educateH people about the real problem. I think they fear those bad guys indirectA attacks, hey you must learn to fear and the time has come you getA direct.V  H Those who are behind this Iraq issue are intelligent people, Vietnam warF was never desired by United States, they were pushed into it, by thoseH who control minds and bodies of people in unites states. You see as long as United States is cs   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 19:56:40 +0100A From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>4 Subject: Novell buying Suse, IBM investing in Novell2 Message-ID: <boe5n5$lsd$1@news2.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>  P I read an article today that Novell is going to buy Suse, and that IBM is going  to invest in Novell.  P Suse produces what I regard as the most mature Linux packages. The attack on M$ F   is getting momentum, but also the attack op propiarty Unix variants.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 19:31:44 GMTeL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")8 Subject: Re: Novell buying Suse, IBM investing in Novell6 Message-ID: <00A287E2.052978E9@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  S In article <boe5n5$lsd$1@news2.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>, Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> writes:h  Q >I read an article today that Novell is going to buy Suse, and that IBM is going   >to invest in Novell.s >aQ >Suse produces what I regard as the most mature Linux packages. The attack on M$ -G >  is getting momentum, but also the attack op propiarty Unix variants.r  K It's worth noting Novell's long history of buying plausible competitors to eM Microsoft products and then doing nothing useful with them.  They had DR-DOS,tH they bought Unix System Laboratories from AT&T (and eventually sold it, N at a substantial loss to SCO).  I think there are a couple of other instances.  J Meantime Caldera is led by ex-Novell people, has a Linux, and is - last I  looked - in bed with SCO.   L IBM may need to kick some Novell butt to keep them from just throwing Suse's assets away.    1 (Nearly on topic for c.o.v: Suse supports Alpha.)i   -- Alans   --  O =============================================================================== 0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056EM  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025hO ===============================================================================n   ------------------------------    Date: 06 Nov 2003 13:41:20 -0800( From: Javier Henderson <javier@KJSL.COM> Subject: Open source DBM's- Message-ID: <86ptg541kv.fsf@skylane.kjsl.com>*  G What, if any, is available in the way of open source SQL DBM's for VMS?p   -jav   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 22:12:04 GMTe# From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)  Subject: Re: Open source DBM's2 Message-ID: <UGzqb.8597$Ud7.7465@news.cpqcorp.net>  X In article <86ptg541kv.fsf@skylane.kjsl.com>, Javier Henderson <javier@KJSL.COM> writes:H :What, if any, is available in the way of open source SQL DBM's for VMS?  H   I've ports of two versions of MySQL arriving on OpenVMS Freeware V6.0.J   (The Freeware disks are shipping with the OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-2 release.)  G   OpenVMS RMS provides non-relational database capabilities, though youx   did specifically request SQL.n  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faqoN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.coms   ------------------------------    Date: 06 Nov 2003 22:59:02 -0800( From: Javier Henderson <javier@KJSL.COM> Subject: Re: Open source DBM's- Message-ID: <86fzh0ekax.fsf@skylane.kjsl.com>u  % hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:a  Z > In article <86ptg541kv.fsf@skylane.kjsl.com>, Javier Henderson <javier@KJSL.COM> writes:J > :What, if any, is available in the way of open source SQL DBM's for VMS? > J >   I've ports of two versions of MySQL arriving on OpenVMS Freeware V6.0.L >   (The Freeware disks are shipping with the OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-2 release.)  H Do you know what versions of MySQL? And, are the Freeware CD's available online?u  I >   OpenVMS RMS provides non-relational database capabilities, though youe! >   did specifically request SQL.o  E Indeed. Ideally, there would be a port of Postgres, since that's whate7 we're running right now, but beggers can't be choosers.p   -jav   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 22:22:11 GMTe# From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)EY Subject: Re: OpenVMS I64 documentation (was: Re: Where's the full list of ports to IA-64? 2 Message-ID: <nQzqb.8599$Ud7.1283@news.cpqcorp.net>  S In article <00A2880D.EB2FC90C@SendSpamHere.ORG>, VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:  ..D :Can't even get a printable version of the calling standard.  How doD :they expect people to port anything but the simplest "Hello World!"
 :programs?  F   There are various new and various updated manuals expected with the D   documentation for the V8.1 release -- we do not have a full set of   manuals available as yet.e  E   Folks are presently collecting porting-related information and tipsz>   for inclusion in the associated documentation, for instance.  =   There is a PDF-format calling standard manual available at:w  N http://www.hp.com/products1/evolution/alpha_retaintrust/openvms/resources.html  F   The downloaded file is viewable with XPDF.  (I've not tried printingF   the manual from XPDF nor from any other PDF viewer, so I do not knowI   if the problem referenced is in the conversion process, printing, etc.)t     N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq.N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.come   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 02:23:06 GMTt5 From: rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger)n/ Subject: Re: OpenVMS i64 missing in HP WEB pagerL Message-ID: <rdeininger-0611032123440001@user-uinj0p8.dialup.mindspring.com>  C In article <3fa8b420$0$11226$636a55ce@news.free.fr>, Didier Morandi- <no@spam.com> wrote:   >Robert Deininger wrote: >X6 >> If you're replying to me, I'm not Bob.  I'm Robert. >Sorry.-  E It's ok.  Just trying to avoid confusion.  I don't actually answer toe# "Bob", which surprises some people.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 23:18:55 -0500T* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>/ Subject: Re: OpenVMS i64 missing in HP WEB pageA) Message-ID: <3FAB1D0C.3F17CF16@istop.com>e   Robert Deininger wrote:gG > It's ok.  Just trying to avoid confusion.  I don't actually answer toe% > "Bob", which surprises some people.g    C That is just so Mr Deininger can't say to me "Bob's you're friend" t   :-) ;-) :-) :-) :-)n   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 21:57:00 +0100e From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>9 Subject: Re: Piping X-Windows traffic over ssh on OpenVMSy2 Message-ID: <boecok$qa8$1@news4.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>   david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:nr > In article <de82e5e4.0311050614.1b1dfa9@posting.google.com>, joe.lofft@itec.mail.suny.edu (Joseph Lofft) writes: > x >>koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote in message news:<U8F7Tu+JbYP$@eisner.encompasserve.org>... >>t >>>In article <de82e5e4.0311041108.1e8523ea@posting.google.com>, joe.lofft@itec.mail.suny.edu (Joseph Lofft) writes: >>>'F >>>>Does anyone have an example setup of how to pipe X-Windows trafficC >>>>over SSH on OpenVMS.  I have not been able to acomplish this onl+ >>>>OpenVMS the way it can be done on UNIX.w >>>g) >>>   Sure, if you tell us what you want.  >>>wI >>>   Are you trying to connect using VMS as the X server or client?  Theg0 >>>   ssh server or client?  Which TCP/IP stack? >>> J >>>   Or in plainer speak, what commands are you trying to do (or emulate) >>>   on what platform?4 >>> E >>>   For a complicated example, I have a fellow SSH from a local VMSeI >>>   system to a remote VMS system, starting an X11 client which tunnels@E >>>   back to the local VMS system and then gets pushed onto his VXT.sF >>>   That's non-trivial and probably more complex than what you need. >>>gJ >>>   A very common problem is a login.com that does a set display commandE >>>   based on the needs of a non-SSH connection.  That wipes out they7 >>>   correct display which SSH provides automatically.a >>H >>I need to run Oracle's Universal Installer program to install databaseF >>code.  I have no problem getting remote X connections loggin in with >>telnet and doing:y >>< >>$ set display/create/transport=tcpip/node=1.2.3.4/server=1 >>E >>I can then run whatever X application I need.  However I have foundsH >>that when I am working with remote sites, the response time with theseG >>applications is deathly slow, due to network congestion.  What I havehC >>foudn on UNIX is that when you pipe the X traffic through SSH theh >>response time is much better.h >>9 >>This is what I am attempting to do on VMS with no luck.  >  > I > Has the final version of the  TCPIP services SSH server and client beenyQ > released ? Last time I looked it didn't support any forwarding - this was goingsP > to be supported with the final release (which was supposed to be released with& > the next version of TCPIP services).  N No, TCPIP V5.4 (and thus SSH) has not been released yet. As far as I know VMS M 7.3-2 will be released next month, and that will contain TCPIP V5.4. However aN V5.4 will also run on VMS 7.3-1 but not with all the performance enhancements.  0 At least this is how I understand the situation.  ( This is what I am running at the moment:   TCPIP> sho version /alli  4    HP TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version T5.47    on a AlphaServer DS10 466 MHz running OpenVMS V7.3-1    <snip>  
 Secure Shell:rO    TCPIP$SSH_SCP2;1           T5.4-13L         13-AUG-2003  SYS$COMMON:[SYSEXE]dO    TCPIP$SSH_SFTP-SERVER2;1   T5.4-13L         13-AUG-2003  SYS$COMMON:[SYSEXE]iO    TCPIP$SSH_SFTP2;1          T5.4-13L         13-AUG-2003  SYS$COMMON:[SYSEXE]tO    TCPIP$SSH_SSH-ADD2;1       T5.4-13L         13-AUG-2003  SYS$COMMON:[SYSEXE]mO    TCPIP$SSH_SSH-AGENT2;1     T5.4-13L         13-AUG-2003  SYS$COMMON:[SYSEXE]mO    TCPIP$SSH_SSH-KEYGEN2;1    T5.4-13L         13-AUG-2003  SYS$COMMON:[SYSEXE]aO    TCPIP$SSH_SSH-SIGNER2;1    T5.4-13L         13-AUG-2003  SYS$COMMON:[SYSEXE]tO    TCPIP$SSH_SSH2;1           T5.4-13L         13-AUG-2003  SYS$COMMON:[SYSEXE]nO    TCPIP$SSH_SSHD2;1          T5.4-13L         13-AUG-2003  SYS$COMMON:[SYSEXE]-         > = > As to tunneling speeding things up - I find that suprising. Q > I'd expect it to slow things down since you have the overhead of encrypting andn > decrypting the traffic.  >  > David Webb > VMS and Unix team leader > CCSS > Middlesex University . >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 14:14:52 -0500t* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>" Subject: Re: Printing from OPENVMS) Message-ID: <3FAA9DAB.602A4757@istop.com>a   John wrote:b > L > Any ideas on how to print an EPS (encapsulated postscript) file from a VMS  > prompt  on a vms printer que ?  # You'd need to create 2 small files.G  N One would be a standard postscript header file. At the bottom of the file, youD would need to position the "cursor" on the page with something like:  
 0 0 moveto	 1 1 scale     ' And in the second file, you would have:g   showpage4 followed by a postscript trailer (closing comments).   then, from the $sign:7  = print/queue=mypostscript   header.ps,myepsfile.eps,trailer.ps     I And EPS file is a self contained virtual object. You need to "place" thatf3 object somewhere on a page and then eject the page.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 14:34:07 -0500o* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>1 Subject: Re: QIO Function code for Telnet device.n) Message-ID: <3FAAA22E.F61940FA@istop.com>e   Brian Armstrong wrote:- > $ TELNET /CREATE_SESSION C0901T01  2002 800sO > $ SET TERMINAL TNA800/DEVICE=VT300/PERMANENT/NOECHO/NOINTERACT/PASTHRU/HANGUPA  H > Does anyone know what the correct IO function code is for this? I haveD > searched the OpenVMS documentation and found no reference to this.    L Do you need a function code ? Since the TELNET/CREATE_SESSION would give youN an actual device (and I suspect an already established session), shouldn't you= be able to simply $ASSIGN and then do your reads and writes ?0  L On the other hand, one could use the "real" TCPIP QIO stuff to create a linkB with TCP to a port on the remote host and then just send raw data.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 16:11:03 -06001 From: "Grealy, Patrick" <PGrealy@sph.uth.tmc.edu>o1 Subject: SEDT text editor for MS-DOS for downloadnL Message-ID: <EEC575D39D864C4BBAE8CD309982B0F20816E9@sphnt33.sph.uth.tmc.edu>   Hi,bJ Does anyone know where I can download a copy of SEDT for MS-DOS. It used =I to come with Pathworks but I can't find it on the CDs we have. The home =nI page for SEDT at http://users.rcn.com/anker/sedt/sedt.htm has an online =r manual but the download link =D ftp://ftp.ultranet.com/pub/anker/sedt/sedwin.exe results in a page = unavailable error. Thanks,E Pat G.   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2003 12:48:16 -0800 # From: rkrishp@hotmail.com (Krishna)s, Subject: VAX to AIX NFS Problem Please HELP!= Message-ID: <2bcd6fe2.0311061248.1ea386a1@posting.google.com>o   Hi,e  > We have an Alpha server running on VAX Vms(I am not a VAX guy)  0 and RS/6000 Version 4.3.3 NFS mounted both ways.  1 We recently changed the hostname of the vax box. R  F and accordingly updated the NFS mounts in RS/6000. and re-exported theD nfs directory, and re-started the NFS deamons. But we cannot see the< directories, all the following commands on AIX side gives ok signals   K* I am able to see the NFS on Rs/6000 sharedO directories If I login as  root , but when I log in as any other user I get the  following errork  3 /nfs: 0403-036 The specified directory is not validi- /Dir/dirname $NFS getattr failed for server h/$  error 7 (RPC: Authentication error)  ' IF ANY BODY CAN HELP ON THIS, PLEASE...M   Thanks in advancee   Krishp   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 16:50:23 -0500u+ From: Ken Robinson <kenrbnsn1@patmedia.net>m0 Subject: Re: VAX to AIX NFS Problem Please HELP!B Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.2.20031106164812.065afc88@mail.patmedia.net>  % At 03:48 PM 11/6/2003, Krishna wrote:T >Hi, >.? >We have an Alpha server running on VAX Vms(I am not a VAX guy)e  L No, you have an Alpha running OpenVMS. But you didn't tell us which version  of VMS.n    1 >and RS/6000 Version 4.3.3 NFS mounted both ways.s >e1 >We recently changed the hostname of the vax box.     How did you change the hostname?  G >and accordingly updated the NFS mounts in RS/6000. and re-exported theiE >nfs directory, and re-started the NFS deamons. But we cannot see thei= >directories, all the following commands on AIX side gives oka >signals >m+ >I am able to see the NFS on Rs/6000 sharedoI >directories If I login as  root , but when I log in as any other user I m >get the >following error > 4 >/nfs: 0403-036 The specified directory is not valid. >/Dir/dirname $NFS getattr failed for server h& >  error 7 (RPC: Authentication error)  I Also, you did not specify which TCP/IP stack you're running on the Alpha o (and which version).  
 Ken Robinson u   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 22:18:05 +0100, From: "Rob Turk" <_wipe_me_r.turk@chello.nl>0 Subject: Re: VAX to AIX NFS Problem Please HELP!= Message-ID: <3faaba8c$0$136$e4fe514c@dreader7.news.xs4all.nl>T  0 "Krishna" <rkrishp@hotmail.com> wrote in message7 news:2bcd6fe2.0311061248.1ea386a1@posting.google.com...  > Hi,  > @ > We have an Alpha server running on VAX Vms(I am not a VAX guy) >-2 > and RS/6000 Version 4.3.3 NFS mounted both ways. >r2 > We recently changed the hostname of the vax box. >oH > and accordingly updated the NFS mounts in RS/6000. and re-exported theF > nfs directory, and re-started the NFS deamons. But we cannot see the> > directories, all the following commands on AIX side gives ok	 > signals  >f, > I am able to see the NFS on Rs/6000 sharedI > directories If I login as  root , but when I log in as any other user I  get thea > following errory >m5 > /nfs: 0403-036 The specified directory is not valida/ > /Dir/dirname $NFS getattr failed for server he& >  error 7 (RPC: Authentication error) > ) > IF ANY BODY CAN HELP ON THIS, PLEASE...  >a > Thanks in advanceo >  > KrishS  F Is DNS properly configured? Any local hosts file that causes problems?7 Problem with /etc/hosts.allow, hosts.deny, hosts.equiv?    Rob.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 16:21:15 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>0 Subject: Re: VAX to AIX NFS Problem Please HELP!) Message-ID: <3FAABB42.1CB86229@istop.com>    Krishna wrote:@ > We have an Alpha server running on VAX Vms(I am not a VAX guy)2 > We recently changed the hostname of the vax box.  Q Alpha is the harware (like Power on IBM), VMS is the operating system (like AIX).6  N You woudl need to specify which TCPIP stack you are running on VMS. If you are9 running the Digital TCPIP Services, then you can use the  N @SYS$MANAGER:TCPIP$CONFIG procedure to check what the configuration really is.  B You can also take a look at the documentation for the VMS side at:  9 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/tcpip.html and look at the:   L                                Compaq TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Management  2 Manual. It has a section on NFS that may help you.  L It isn't enough to change the hostname on the VMS host, but you also need to change it in your DNS server.   K One good test would be whether from AIX, you can telnet to the VMS machine,i@ and if from the VMS machine , you can telnet to the AIX machine.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 21:45:54 GMTn" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG5 Subject: Re: Where's the full list of ports to IA-64? 0 Message-ID: <00A2880D.EB2FC90C@SendSpamHere.ORG>  i In article <c1wqb.317$SQt.48@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:pL >Looking for the most current list of the 500+ applications that HP has said& >are so far being ported to IA-64/VMS. > 1 >Would prefer seeing the list organized two ways:o" >by vendor and by application type >  >iD >Anybody have a URL?  I've poked around but obviously have missed it >someplace.d  C Can't even get a printable version of the calling standard.  How donC they expect people to port anything but the simplest "Hello World!"m	 programs?g   -- -L VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker    VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM            l5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" n   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 21:54:10 GMTP# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>r5 Subject: Re: Where's the full list of ports to IA-64?iF Message-ID: <6qzqb.1611$SQt.1556@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>    VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:E > In article <c1wqb.317$SQt.48@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, ' > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:cE >> Looking for the most current list of the 500+ applications that HPd1 >> has said are so far being ported to IA-64/VMS.l >>3 >> Would prefer seeing the list organized two ways:,$ >> by vendor and by application type >> >>F >> Anybody have a URL?  I've poked around but obviously have missed it
 >> someplace.g >DE > Can't even get a printable version of the calling standard.  How do.E > they expect people to port anything but the simplest "Hello World!"n > programs?r     [grassy knoll]L It's called a self-fulfilling prophecy -- along the lines of 'eviscerate' asF some HP exec once said of proprietary operating systems.... don't tellH anyone how to write programs for your proprietary os...then there are noL apps...then no demand...then no need to be making that os or hardware...thenI be the high priced vendor of commodity hardware...go out of business...dop! not pass GO, do not collect $200.u [/grassy knoll]e    K Perhaps if we're lucky, something along the lines of what we both seek will E appear automagically next week in NH - unless is deemed to classifiedX" information for the annointed few.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 00:58:55 GMT-" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG5 Subject: Re: Where's the full list of ports to IA-64?w0 Message-ID: <00A28828.E2363854@SendSpamHere.ORG>  l In article <6qzqb.1611$SQt.1556@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:! >VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:eF >> In article <c1wqb.317$SQt.48@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,( >> "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:F >>> Looking for the most current list of the 500+ applications that HP2 >>> has said are so far being ported to IA-64/VMS. >>> 4 >>> Would prefer seeing the list organized two ways:% >>> by vendor and by application types >>>h >>>kG >>> Anybody have a URL?  I've poked around but obviously have missed itv >>> someplace. >>F >> Can't even get a printable version of the calling standard.  How doF >> they expect people to port anything but the simplest "Hello World!" >> programs? >w >h >[grassy knoll]tM >It's called a self-fulfilling prophecy -- along the lines of 'eviscerate' as.G >some HP exec once said of proprietary operating systems.... don't telliI >anyone how to write programs for your proprietary os...then there are nopM >apps...then no demand...then no need to be making that os or hardware...thenoJ >be the high priced vendor of commodity hardware...go out of business...do" >not pass GO, do not collect $200. >[/grassy knoll] >  >vL >Perhaps if we're lucky, something along the lines of what we both seek willF >appear automagically next week in NH - unless is deemed to classified# >information for the annointed few.   L ... and from your statement above, I take it you'll be there?  If so, pleaseL be certain to introduce yourself.  If you choose to retain anonimity, I will oblige.u   -- uL VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker    VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM            "5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 12:46:32 -0800# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>e+ Subject: RE: [OT] - VAX9000 (was: Re: VUP?)r9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIAEMFIHAA.tom@kednos.com>u  @ I thought so.  Funny thing at that time it was not believed thatB passive logic could shrink much more because as it did the quantum? barrier dropped and correspondingly the probability of electron A tunneling increased, i.e. the signal to noise ratio got worse, soiA people continued working with active logic like ECL.  So much fore	 theory:-)i   >-----Original Message-----t3 >From: Lord Isildur [mailto:isildur@andrew.cmu.edu]A+ >Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 10:27 AM  >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com, >Subject: Re: [OT] - VAX9000 (was: Re: VUP?) >D >  >nH >the 9000 was indeed ECL. probably the last full blown computer made for >general use done in ECL, too. >b >isildur >m >x) >On Thu, 6 Nov 2003, Rich Alderson wrote:e >r( >> "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes: >>' >> > Was the 9000 the one based on ECL?- >>9 >> I don't think so.  The 8600 and 8650 were ECL, though.W >>; >> The 9000 was introduced just before the Fall 1989 DECUS a >Symposium, at which weA> >> celebrated the 25th anniversary of 36-bit computing at DEC  >(PDP-6, June 1964).D >> The trade rags were echoing Digital's marketing flacks, who were  >calling theB >> 9000 "Digital's first mainframe", which was of course nonsense. >> >> --  >> Rich Alderson					    | /"\ > >ASCII ribbon     |s- >> news@alderson.users.panix.com			    | \ /   >campaign against |rB >> "You get what anybody gets. You get a lifetime."    |  x  HTML  >mail and    |: >> 			 --Death, of the Endless    | / \ postings         | >> >b >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).vB >Version: 6.0.530 / Virus Database: 325 - Release Date: 10/22/2003 >v ---a& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A Version: 6.0.530 / Virus Database: 325 - Release Date: 10/22/2003o   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 14:38:17 -0800* From: "Jack Peacock" <peacock@simconv.com>+ Subject: Re: [OT] - VAX9000 (was: Re: VUP?)-2 Message-ID: <7_Kdnd0FY6LHUDeiRVn-jg@mpowercom.net>  8 "Lord Isildur" <isildur@andrew.cmu.edu> wrote in messageB news:Pine.LNX.4.58-035.0311061325300.6829@unix44.andrew.cmu.edu... >5I > the 9000 was indeed ECL. probably the last full blown computer made for  > general use done in ECL, too.- >nH As I recall the innovation on the 9000 was the use of multi-chip modulesK (MCMs), where several bare die were mounted in one carrier, something alongIG the line of the Pentium Pro.   In theory this would dramatically reducexJ interconnect lengths along the critical paths of the CPU (the reason IntelC went to CPU modules for cache).  In practice it turned out to be anmJ engineering nightmare for DEC as just about everything possible went wrongI with the MCMs.  I believe at one point even the mounting adhesive for theL@ dice outgassed (or something like that) and clobbered the chips.  J By the time the 9000 (wasn't there a 10000 too?) worked it was too late toJ market.  VAX was dying and semi processes were much better.  I worked withJ one company that decided to end their VMS with a large 7000 instead of theK 9000 in part because of the 9000 horror stories.  They went all Sun for the  next round of upgrades.r    Jack Peacockt   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 00:03:50 -0500e( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>+ Subject: Re: [OT] - VAX9000 (was: Re: VUP?)o, Message-ID: <3FAB27B6.6050902@tsoft-inc.com>   Jack Peacock wrote:u    2 > By the time the 9000 (wasn't there a 10000 too?)    N The VAX 10000 was introduced around the same time as the VAX 7000 models.  It N was similar to the 7000, but targetted at the largest users.  It was an N-VAX O based system, and like the 7000, was suppost to be upgradable to an Alpha when MQ Alpha was ready.  Might have been a forklift upgrade, but it's the cost, not the b weight that matters.   Dave   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Roado Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 21:44:03 GMTs" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORGP Subject: Re: [OT]: Microsoft putting up $5 million reward to catch cybervillains0 Message-ID: <00A2880D.A43692CE@SendSpamHere.ORG>  i In article <vXvqb.309$SQt.98@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:e! >VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:0
 >> In articlepD >> <6Vsqb.199005$3f.110637@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,( >> "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes: >>>tM >http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=711&ncid=1212&e=1&u=/usatoda0# >>> y/20031106/tc_usatoday/11938833l >>>pH >>> SEATTLE Microsoft (MSFT) said Tuesday it will ante up $5 million forG >>> a reward program to nab cybercriminals who infect the Internet with. >>> worms and viruses. >>>s >>> ....more...g >>>  >>>n >>> H >>> No mention was made of catching and convicting those responsible forF >>> writing operating systems conducive to propagating those worms and >>> viruses. >>> 	 >>> Pity.l >>G >> A new get rich quick scheme...  Write a script to propagate to boxesm
 >> runningH >> Billywarez and then turn yourself into M$ and collect US$5E-06.  Plea
 >> bargainH >> with the prosecutor and you might get off with a turn in one of those	 >> white-1G >> collar government funded recreational camps.  How about we all do ito
 >> and put+ >> the Redmond R.A.T.S.N.E.S.T. out of biz?r >o >C	 >Perfect.v >0I >Write a worm that self-propagates and opens the infect computer's e-mail I >client with a message ready to be sent out. The body of the message goese >something like: >aB >"This message is brought to you as a public service announcement. > I >Want to join a class-action lawsuit against Microsoft for selling flawedeE >operating systems that permit worms and viruses to cost you and your$6 >business millions of dollars per month in combatting? > F >Enter your name and contact details in the locations indicated below.I >Indicate which version of Microsoft Windows you are using, the estimatedaH >cost to you/your company of combatting worms/viruses each month (peopleG >time, software costs, subscription costs, conference costs, consultingn2 >costs, estimated lost productivity costs, etc..). >uH >If you are not in the USA, your response will be forwarded to our legalL >correspondents in each country in which we will be launching a class-actionK >suit against Microsoft and your name will be added to the suit launched int >your country of residence." >wF >If you don't wish to participate, simply delete this message. NothingD >related to this message will remain on your computer nor affect its >operation." >l >oL >The message is pre-addressed to a law firm that specializes in class-action >suits.o >r > M >Microsoft could not 'join' the suits launched in each country into one giantmH >suit, so they'd be stuck spending billions on retaining lawyers in eachK >country, translating billions of lines of correspondence for submission as$H >evidence in the official language(s) of each country, and running their: >execs around the world to give depositions and testimony.  H Don't think that I haven't contemplated this.  Unfortunately, I don't DO< Micro$haft so I would know where to start or how to test it.  H I have often thought about breaking the long silence with my cousin -- aH silence which began when he became a legal system sanction blood suckingI leech -- to ask him if there was a cause of action I could bring for the aI prouble which these viruses/worm/etc. have cause me.  I don't have and ori: use Billywarez but I've been victimized by their presence.   -- aL VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker    VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM             5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" c   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2003 17:43:06 -0800$. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)P Subject: Re: [OT]: Microsoft putting up $5 million reward to catch cybervillains= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0311061743.6bfccd0e@posting.google.com>   w "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message news:<6Vsqb.199005$3f.110637@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>...bN > http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=711&ncid=1212&e=1&u=/usatoda! > y/20031106/tc_usatoday/11938833e > H > SEATTLE Microsoft (MSFT) said Tuesday it will ante up $5 million for aM > reward program to nab cybercriminals who infect the Internet with worms andn
 > viruses. >  > ...more... [...]t  G For such a program, may I suggest a name:  HACKER WHACKER.  :-) :-) :-)s  5 The logo could be something similar to the following:e   --  
     HACKER
    WHACKER   -- :-) :-) :-)    Alan E. Feldmani   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Nov 2003 06:48:48 GMT 2 From: "Dave Weatherall" <djw-nothere@nospam.nohow>L Subject: Re: [semi-OT] SCSI jumpers (was: Re: newbie problem installing VMS)5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-6vqWZ1Jdb3xQ@localhost>   / On Wed, 5 Nov 2003 23:46:00 UTC, Chris Scheers T" <chris@applied-synergy.com> wrote:   Snip   > J > "Sector size" should, strangely enough, set the sector size.  If this is, > a CDROM, this should be a 512/2048 jumper.  @ And doesn't VMS like 512 byte sectors? Maybe that's his problem.   --   Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.617 ************************