1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 09 Nov 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 621       Contents:: Re: Does anyone shut down for system disk backup any more?: Re: Does anyone shut down for system disk backup any more?: Re: Does anyone shut down for system disk backup any more?: Re: Does anyone shut down for system disk backup any more?: Re: Does anyone shut down for system disk backup any more?: Re: Does anyone shut down for system disk backup any more?: Re: Does anyone shut down for system disk backup any more?: Re: Does anyone shut down for system disk backup any more?; how to get a list of files with the /NOBACKUP attribute set . Re: HTTP Error 206: accelerator or impatience? Image needs to know where it is # Re: Image needs to know where it is 9 is it necessary to dismount any volumes in syshutdwn.com? " Looking for openvms access via tcp& Re: Looking for openvms access via tcp= Re: Newbie problem, act 2: recovering an old VMS installation = Re: Newbie problem, act 2: recovering an old VMS installation * OpenVMS, Industrial Automation  and Brazil; Possible to use character mode forms on VMS with Oracle 9i?  problems with ITRC patch site  problems with patches  Re: problems with patches  Re: problems with patches ' SYPAGSWPFILES still replace on upgrade? % when should one use /IGNORE=NOBACKUP? ) Re: when should one use /IGNORE=NOBACKUP? ) Re: when should one use /IGNORE=NOBACKUP? ) Re: when should one use /IGNORE=NOBACKUP? ) Re: when should one use /IGNORE=NOBACKUP?  Re: [OT] p*o*e*t*s of the day   Re: [very OT] Matrix Revolutions  Re: [very OT] Matrix Revolutions  Re: [very OT] Matrix Revolutions  Re: [very OT] Matrix Revolutions  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 14:17:17 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>C Subject: Re: Does anyone shut down for system disk backup any more? ( Message-ID: <3FAD413C.9588029@istop.com>  / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: H > Thus, it must be possible to shut down a node, backup its system disk,H > then boot it back into the cluster.  This is much more graceful than aD > node crash.  If you can't do this, then how do you upgrade in your > 24*365 cluster?   ! This goes beyond the system disk.   J Think about it, what is more valuable: your company's data which cannot beC obtained elsewhere, or OS and layered products you can re-install ?   J In the old days, you could SET LOGIN/INTERACTIVE=0 and STOP/QUEUE to get aL quiet system, but you still had opened files on yoru system drive. You could' however safely backup your data drives.   K But these days, the data drives are the ones with the constant activity and K very fluid data. Your system drive has far less fluidity in its data files. I Being able to safely backup your application data without interruption of M service is more important than being able to safely backup your system drive.   D You can rebuild a system drive from CDs. But you cannot rebuild yourM application data, especially these days with paperless transactions where you > couldn't even re-enter the transactions to rebuild your files.   ------------------------------  * Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 19:58:14 +0000 (UTC)P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)C Subject: Re: Does anyone shut down for system disk backup any more? $ Message-ID: <bojhsm$b2a$1@online.de>  U In article <3FAD413C.9588029@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes:   1 > Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: J > > Thus, it must be possible to shut down a node, backup its system disk,J > > then boot it back into the cluster.  This is much more graceful than aF > > node crash.  If you can't do this, then how do you upgrade in your > > 24*365 cluster?  > # > This goes beyond the system disk.  > L > Think about it, what is more valuable: your company's data which cannot beE > obtained elsewhere, or OS and layered products you can re-install ?  > L > In the old days, you could SET LOGIN/INTERACTIVE=0 and STOP/QUEUE to get aN > quiet system, but you still had opened files on yoru system drive. You could) > however safely backup your data drives.  > M > But these days, the data drives are the ones with the constant activity and M > very fluid data. Your system drive has far less fluidity in its data files. K > Being able to safely backup your application data without interruption of O > service is more important than being able to safely backup your system drive.  > F > You can rebuild a system drive from CDs. But you cannot rebuild yourO > application data, especially these days with paperless transactions where you @ > couldn't even re-enter the transactions to rebuild your files.  F I agree.  But if your application data is on shadow sets with members I mounted on separate nodes, 3 at 3 different locations to be really safe,  I then the application data doesn't ever have to go offline (assuming that  F you can live with shadow copies).  It doesn't have to be upgraded, so F there is no need to have the disk completely quiet, unlike the system  disk.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 15:54:06 -0500 % From: Cow Belle <C.Bell@ruminant.org> C Subject: Re: Does anyone shut down for system disk backup any more? , Message-ID: <3FAD57E6.7AAA73FB@ruminant.org>  / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: G > I agree.  But if your application data is on shadow sets with members J > mounted on separate nodes, 3 at 3 different locations to be really safe,J > then the application data doesn't ever have to go offline (assuming that$ > you can live with shadow copies).   L You have the same problem of taking a snapshot of a drive at a time when the0 application may be midway through a transaction.  L BACKUP is just one side of the solution. Having applications which allow youJ to safely backup their files with mininal disruption of service is perhaps more important.    ------------------------------  * Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 21:24:22 +0000 (UTC)P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)C Subject: Re: Does anyone shut down for system disk backup any more? $ Message-ID: <bojmu6$kod$1@online.de>  6 In article <3FAD57E6.7AAA73FB@ruminant.org>, Cow Belle <C.Bell@ruminant.org> writes:   1 > Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: I > > I agree.  But if your application data is on shadow sets with members L > > mounted on separate nodes, 3 at 3 different locations to be really safe,L > > then the application data doesn't ever have to go offline (assuming that& > > you can live with shadow copies).  > N > You have the same problem of taking a snapshot of a drive at a time when the2 > application may be midway through a transaction. > N > BACKUP is just one side of the solution. Having applications which allow youL > to safely backup their files with mininal disruption of service is perhaps > more important.   F Agreed.  However, you have control over your own application, but not I over VMS itself, so you should be sure to back up the system disk before   doing an upgrade.  :-)   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Nov 2003 21:12:09 GMT 3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann) C Subject: Re: Does anyone shut down for system disk backup any more? 0 Message-ID: <bojm79$rrq$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  M We do a backup of the system disk during the night with /IGNORE=INTERLOCK and C /VERIFY. The verification reveals an inconsistency in OPERATOR.LOG, M ACCOUNTNG.DAT, VMS$AUDIT_SERVER.DAT and SYS$BASE_IMAGE.EXE . The former three G don't hurt, the files grew a bit larger between the real backup and the - verification. But what is SYS$BASE_IMAGE.EXE?    Regards,    Christoph Gartmann    --  E  Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452   ImmunbiologieI  Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio dot mpg dot de   D-79011  Freiburg, Germany 9                http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/menue.html    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 19:04:21 -0500  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>C Subject: Re: Does anyone shut down for system disk backup any more? 4 Message-ID: <1031108184814.403A-100000@Ives.egh.com>  ! On 5 Nov 2003, Bob Koehler wrote:   ^ > In article <03110508155559@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>, brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon) writes:M > >> I can think of 2 VMS-supplied  .EXE files that ARE modified, off the top  > >> of my head. > > M > > Which ones?  I was not aware of this.  Why?  That seems a bit nuts to me.  > >  > I >    DCLTABLES.EXE gets modified by many software installations to add or  >    update a command.  B That creates a new version, doesn't modify the existing version...D BTW, I don't think a system in the middle of a software installation qualifies as a "quiet" system.  K >    SYS.EXE gets modified every time you do a "set time=xxx" command, such E >    as during a normal system shutdown.  That's where time time cell I >    exists that gets checked against the battery powered hardware clock  K >    during boot to determine whether VMS should use the hardware clock or   >    prompt for the time.   C If you shutdown your system in the middle of the backup, the backup G probably won't be valid, anyway ;-)  (I know, you were actually talking E about shutting down one of the other systems that boots from the same > disk, but this seemed like too nice a point to not mention...)  I I'm sure the time cell is stored in a single disk block, so you'll either F get the old value or the new value.  If you restore with the old valueG and the hardware TOY clock was updated, then funny things can happen to J the system time, but I think sanity checks have been added.  (This appliesH just as much to a restored copy of a standalone backup, though.)  AnyoneE remember installing VMS V5.x or before when it was after April of the G year after the kit was mastered?  It always screwed up the system time, F usually by a year or a year and a day.  BTW, do Alphas and IA64's workJ the same way, given that the hardware clock doesn't have the same 15-month' limitation that the VAX TOY clocks had?   K >    Some layered products maintain data in global sections backed by .EXE   >    files.  > @ >    Howver, generally neither of these should be a problem for  >    /ignore=backup.  F Just don't do all your backups onto the same tape!  If the most recentE tape is bad, the 2nd most recent one is probably fine.  If you have a E dozen monthly backups, and the odds are 99.9% that each is fine, then D the odds of failure are .001^12.  I think I may have had to go to anF n-1 backup once, ever, but I think that was because the tape (probablyG 9-track) was physically bad, not because of /ignore=interlock problems.    --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 18:24:38 -0500( From: Wayne Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com>C Subject: Re: Does anyone shut down for system disk backup any more? / Message-ID: <00A289AE.0845FA5F.6@tachysoft.com>   & >From: Cow Belle <C.Bell@ruminant.org>D >Subject: Re: Does anyone shut down for system disk backup any more? > 0 >Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:H >> I agree.  But if your application data is on shadow sets with membersK >> mounted on separate nodes, 3 at 3 different locations to be really safe, K >> then the application data doesn't ever have to go offline (assuming that % >> you can live with shadow copies).   > M >You have the same problem of taking a snapshot of a drive at a time when the 1 >application may be midway through a transaction.  > M >BACKUP is just one side of the solution. Having applications which allow you K >to safely backup their files with mininal disruption of service is perhaps  >more important.  M The way TAPESYS gets around this is to temporarily close the databases during M the nightly cleanup.  While they are closed, the databases are backed up to a L saveset in the audit directory and then repacked.  The database manager thenM reopens them.  All write operations are immediately flushed, so the databases I *should* be intact even with /ignore=interlock.  But if they are not, the L savesets in the audit directory are never more than a day old, and of course: they are perfect snapshots taken with the database closed.O =============================================================================== N Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738   wayne@tachysoft.com; http://www.tachysoft.com/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html    O =============================================================================== H Randolph Duke (in Trading Places): "Mother always said you were greedy."1    Mortimer Duke: "She meant it as a compliment!"    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 19:11:33 -0500  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>C Subject: Re: Does anyone shut down for system disk backup any more? 4 Message-ID: <1031108190638.403B-100000@Ives.egh.com>  # On Wed, 5 Nov 2003, JF Mezei wrote:   E > > >> An interesting experiment would be to find an old disk with an H > > >> easily accessible "write protect" button on the outside.  Boot upF > > >> VMS from such a disk, get your applications going (yes, even ifH > > >> they are on a different disk), and then write protect your system > > >> disk. >  > O > The audit server would get mighty mad at not being able to write its logs and O > probably freeze the system. OPCOM woudl also get mighty mad with inability to P > write to operator.log, and the queue manager would also complain bitterly. You" > woudln't have a happy family :-)  I It would go into mount-verify 1st, OPCOM, audit server, and cohorts would I never know.  (Unless you left it there long enough to time out.  I always J set my MVTIMEOUTs to 10 hours, which just gives enough time for someone toI come in in the morning, notice it's been dead all night, call me at home, E drive into work, and have MV abort as I walk into the computer room.)    --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  * Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 02:22:13 +0000 (UTC)P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)D Subject: how to get a list of files with the /NOBACKUP attribute set$ Message-ID: <bok8cl$8a6$1@online.de>   Subject says it all.  @ How can one get a list of files with the NOBACKUP attribute set?   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 14:30:28 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>7 Subject: Re: HTTP Error 206: accelerator or impatience? ) Message-ID: <3FAD4452.23F55C4A@istop.com>    Didier Morandi wrote:  > HTTP Error 206I > Partial Content. The request was canceled before it could be fulfilled.   M Nop.  It is a success message of a partial content operation. (eg: the client J requests a specific byte range of a document from a server). This is quiteJ typical of a PDF document since the PDF plugins will ask for chunks of theK document instead of requesting the whole document. This way, the PDF plugin L can build its index of pages and then retrieve pages individually as needed.  K Also, this is a response from your server to their client. It is one of the I first headers sent back to the client, so the 206 would be sent back well N before the remote client would have aborted the transfer. Such aborts might beM logged in your server "lost link before all contents were sent" but would not < involve any HTTP headers since the link would have been cut.    - ftp://ftp.rfc-editor.org/in-notes/rfc2616.txt      10.2.7 206 Partial Content  E    The server has fulfilled the partial GET request for the resource. F    The request MUST have included a Range header field (section 14.35)B    indicating the desired range, and MAY have included an If-Range@    header field (section 14.27) to make the request conditional.  9    The response MUST include the following header fields:   F       - Either a Content-Range header field (section 14.16) indicatingH         the range included with this response, or a multipart/byterangesG         Content-Type including Content-Range fields for each part. If a C         Content-Length header field is present in the response, its G         value MUST match the actual number of OCTETs transmitted in the          message-body.          - Date  H       - ETag and/or Content-Location, if the header would have been sent-         in a 200 response to the same request   E       - Expires, Cache-Control, and/or Vary, if the field-value might C         differ from that sent in any previous response for the same          variant   G    If the 206 response is the result of an If-Range request that used a G    strong cache validator (see section 13.3.3), the response SHOULD NOT D    include other entity-headers. If the response is the result of anE    If-Range request that used a weak validator, the response MUST NOT F    include other entity-headers; this prevents inconsistencies betweenD    cached entity-bodies and updated headers. Otherwise, the responseG    MUST include all of the entity-headers that would have been returned 0    with a 200 (OK) response to the same request.  G    A cache MUST NOT combine a 206 response with other previously cached E    content if the ETag or Last-Modified headers do not match exactly,     see 13.5.4.  D    A cache that does not support the Range and Content-Range headers*    MUST NOT cache 206 (Partial) responses.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 17:58:08 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>( Subject: Image needs to know where it is) Message-ID: <3FAD74F0.D4E51224@istop.com>   M What are the different ways for an image to find out in which directory it is  stored ?  N If an application  needs to open companion files,  it would be nice to be ableC to store such files next to the image file, and have the image file L automatically find out where it resides so it could then find those files byL providing full file specification. (instead of relying on the system manager2 defining some logical pointing to that directory).  M I know that with DCL, one can use F$ENVIRONMENT("PROCEDURE") and then F$PARSE F to get full psecification of current procedure.  How can image get its equivalent information ?   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 02:32:06 GMT 6 From: Jeffrey Coffield <jeffrey@digitalsynergyinc.com>, Subject: Re: Image needs to know where it is4 Message-ID: <3FADAAE3.5050706@digitalsynergyinc.com>   JF Mezei wrote: O > What are the different ways for an image to find out in which directory it is 
 > stored ? > P > If an application  needs to open companion files,  it would be nice to be ableE > to store such files next to the image file, and have the image file N > automatically find out where it resides so it could then find those files byN > providing full file specification. (instead of relying on the system manager4 > defining some logical pointing to that directory). > O > I know that with DCL, one can use F$ENVIRONMENT("PROCEDURE") and then F$PARSE H > to get full psecification of current procedure.  How can image get its > equivalent information ?  ( Call SYS$GETJPI, item code JPI$_IMAGNAME   ------------------------------  * Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 21:57:34 +0000 (UTC)P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)B Subject: is it necessary to dismount any volumes in syshutdwn.com?$ Message-ID: <bojose$pf5$1@online.de>  F Of course, all locally mounted disks will eventually get dismounted.  6 Still, would it be better to explicitly dismount them?  G What about disks on other nodes served by MSCP?  Should one explicitly   dismount them?  < What about shadow sets where all members are on other nodes?  G What about shadow sets where some but not all members are on the local   node?   ? What about shadow sets where all members are on the local node?   D What about non-system disks being used for page and/or swap files?  E Should one deinstall the page/swap files before doing the dismount?   H Should one deinstall the page/swap files even if one doesn't explicitly  dismount the disk?   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Nov 2003 12:13:31 -0800 ! From: taubersr@bezeqint.net (rdb) + Subject: Looking for openvms access via tcp = Message-ID: <7aa52fb5.0311081213.3b79f6a8@posting.google.com>   $ I am looking for an hosting service ' that can give me an openvms commandline / access including rdb and some minor instaltion  ( via tcpip client connection from the www   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Nov 2003 14:48:18 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) / Subject: Re: Looking for openvms access via tcp 3 Message-ID: <xlc1Ek3xtuso@eisner.encompasserve.org>   a In article <7aa52fb5.0311081213.3b79f6a8@posting.google.com>, taubersr@bezeqint.net (rdb) writes:   & > I am looking for an hosting service ) > that can give me an openvms commandline 1 > access including rdb and some minor instaltion  * > via tcpip client connection from the www  B Doing that over the World Wide Web (implying HTTP as the protocol): would require some very specialized software on both ends.  > I think you would be better off looking to do it just over the= Internet using the Telnet protocol (presuming you do not have 1 a VMS machine at your end to use DECnet over IP).    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 14:44:17 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>F Subject: Re: Newbie problem, act 2: recovering an old VMS installation) Message-ID: <3FAD478E.AD3FB802@istop.com>    WiseLYNX wrote: , > > You can then try ANA/DISK/REPAIR DKA200:D > OK, I can do it all, and it's the first time I see the $ prompt byJ > booting from the HD :) The problem is, when I launch the repair command, > I get the following errors:  > ; > %RMS-F-BUG, fatal RMS condition detected, process deleted ; > -RMS-F-BUG, fatal RMS condition detected, process deleted  > ' > and the system hangs there once more.    OK, one more variation:   M Boot as before with the minumum setup. Once you get to the $ sign, the system L still thinks you are in the booting process (with the input coming from your& keyboard instead of the startup file).  8 Try issuing the SPAWN command before the ANA/DISK/REPAIR  H This way, if/when it bombs, it should return you to the previous process instead of hanging the system.   another thing to try:    $ DIR DKA200:[000000...]*.*;*   M this will list the contents of the whole drive. Lots of files. However, if it J fails somewhere in the output, you'll have a good idea of where it failed.  I > Because Didier Morandi in a previous post suggested that it could be an @ > hardware failure, do you think it could be not just a software > corruption?   N File corruption is very rare, especially for system files, unless it is caused by a bad disk.  J > I was wondering if could be a good thing to low-level-format the disk(s)I > anyway when I'll be able to redo the VMS install.. would you suggest it 	 > or not?   N At this point in time, you could have a bit of fun trying to see what that oldH 5.4 system drive has in terms of problems. But yes, because it has shownM erratic behaviour, a low level format would definitely be called for prior to 4 re-installing a fresh system. Also, 5.4 is very old.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 20:22:10 -0000( From: "John Travell" <john@jomatech.com>F Subject: Re: Newbie problem, act 2: recovering an old VMS installation: Message-ID: <bojjip$1fvvp4$1@ID-120847.news.uni-berlin.de>  : "WiseLYNX" <wiselynx.naima@fastwebnet.it> wrote in message/ news:Th6rb.1312$ZH3.92@tornado.fastwebnet.it... I > > I would suspect your disk is corrupt, or your hardware config has not  too kosher. . > .. mh.. what does "kosher" exactly means? :) > L > > Try b/1 to get to the SYSBOOT> prompt, if that succeeds, use the commandJ > > SYSBOOT> SET STARTUP_P1 = "MIN"     (not sure of = is required or not) > > SYSBOOT> SET VAXCLUSTER = 0  > > SYSBOOT> SET MSCP = 0  > > SYSBOOT> SET/STARTUP=OPA0: > > SYSBOOT> CONTINUE  > > I > > This invokes a minimal boot with minimal configuration of devices. It  thisJ > > gets you further, it may be a hint. If you get to the $ sign, you will be in a " > > extremely limited environment. > > , > > You can then try ANA/DISK/REPAIR DKA200:D > OK, I can do it all, and it's the first time I see the $ prompt byJ > booting from the HD :) The problem is, when I launch the repair command, > I get the following errors:  > ; > %RMS-F-BUG, fatal RMS condition detected, process deleted ; > -RMS-F-BUG, fatal RMS condition detected, process deleted  > ' > and the system hangs there once more.   & Before you do the $ ana/disk/repair do $ spawn K This puts you into a sub-process. If this dies, you will be returned to the E process you spawned from, instead of being effectively thrown off the  system.    Then do  $ show error and see whether you have any. * If the sub-process dies, just spawn again.K Try all of the following commands. spawning new subprocesses every time the  old one dies...  $ show device d H This should list all of the disks VMS knows about, which may only be theK system disk, or may be all disks on the same controller as the system disk. H I cannot remember now which version you are running, and how much a very+ minimal boot of that version will show you. " $ mc sysman autoconfigure all /log* This should configure all of the hardware. $ show device d  may now show more disks  $ show device dka200: /full ' and the same for any other disk listed.  $  ana/disk/read_check dka200:   and tell us what happens.      -- John Travell" Independent VMS crashdump analyst. john- at - jomatech - dot - com  +44-(0)23-92552229 http://www.jomatech.com/       --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A Version: 6.0.532 / Virus Database: 326 - Release Date: 27/10/2003    ------------------------------   Date: 8 Nov 2003 12:43:32 -0800 . From: fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso)3 Subject: OpenVMS, Industrial Automation  and Brazil < Message-ID: <f30679fb.0311081243.bfd538d@posting.google.com>  9 I was just researching some OpenVMS stuff and discovered  ; that a brazilian company represents a lot of I. Automation  ) products under OpenVMS. Check the list !    2 http://www.softbrasil.com.br/produtos/aglanser.htm   Regards    FC   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Nov 2003 18:13:38 -0800 , From: mcbill20@hotmail.com (Bill McLaughlin)D Subject: Possible to use character mode forms on VMS with Oracle 9i?= Message-ID: <e9cbc4f2.0311081813.2125ba77@posting.google.com>   E Hello. I've poked around looking for info on character mode forms for D VMS but I haven't found anything definite about running forms on VMS@ with 9i. Is anyone doing this? I looked for some older developerC software to download because someone had told me that Forms 6 would ? still work but I can't find any of the older stuff to download.    Thanks.  Bill   ------------------------------  * Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 22:52:17 +0000 (UTC)P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)& Subject: problems with ITRC patch site$ Message-ID: <bojs31$tsh$1@online.de>    This might be one of a series...  I           ftp://ftp.itrc.hp.com/openvms_patches/layered_products/vax/CXXE            01056.txt    says  *                 ECO NUMBER:      CXXE01056                 ----------- ;                 PRODUCT:         Compaq C++ for OpenVMS VAX                  --------?                 UPDATED PRODUCT: Compaq C++ for OpenVMS VAX 5.6                   ----------------&                 APPRX BLCK SIZE: 28665                  ----------------  A      4.1  Version(s) of OpenVMS to which this kit may be applied:          OpenVMS VAX V5.5-2 - V7.2-1  C This is obviously wrong, since there is no 7.2-1 VAX.  What is the  8 highest version of VMS on which this kit can be applied?   ------------------------------  * Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 20:06:27 +0000 (UTC)P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: problems with patches$ Message-ID: <bojic3$b2a$2@online.de>  F Has anyone been able to successfully decompress the following patches?  I           ftp://ftp.itrc.hp.com/openvms_patches/layered_products/vax/VAX_ -           TCPIP_ECO-V0503-182.PCSI-DCX_VAXEXE   I           ftp://ftp.itrc.hp.com/openvms_patches/layered_products/vax/VAX_ '           RTR-V0401-332.PCSI-DCX_VAXEXE    In both cases, I get    3    %FTSV-W-COMP_DECOMPERR, fatal decompressor error N    -DCX-E-INVDATA, invalid data presented for expansion or bounded compression  F I downloaded them again and tried again, same error, so I don't think  they were corrupted in transit.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 15:51:36 -0500 % From: Cow Belle <C.Bell@ruminant.org> " Subject: Re: problems with patches, Message-ID: <3FAD5750.A74AC2E9@ruminant.org>  / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: K >           ftp://ftp.itrc.hp.com/openvms_patches/layered_products/vax/VAX_ / >           TCPIP_ECO-V0503-182.PCSI-DCX_VAXEXE 5 >    %FTSV-W-COMP_DECOMPERR, fatal decompressor error P >    -DCX-E-INVDATA, invalid data presented for expansion or bounded compression     On my system, I have  1 DEC-VAXVMS-TCPIP_ECO-V0503-182-4.PCSI-DCX_VAXEXE  # and it has a checksum of: 205517388   7 (checksum filenamne and show symbol checksum$checksum )   8 Are you sure you are using  SET TYPE IMAGE in your FTP ?  L If you still have problems, let me know privately (remove the spamnot) and IM can let you donwload from my site). This one came from the old site many many M months ago. Note that this upgrade breaks the IMAP server. So you may wish to ; backup anything related to IMAP before applying that patch.    ------------------------------  * Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 21:30:11 +0000 (UTC)P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)" Subject: Re: problems with patches$ Message-ID: <bojn93$kod$2@online.de>  6 In article <3FAD5750.A74AC2E9@ruminant.org>, Cow Belle <C.Bell@ruminant.org> writes:    > On my system, I have > 3 > DEC-VAXVMS-TCPIP_ECO-V0503-182-4.PCSI-DCX_VAXEXE  % > and it has a checksum of: 205517388  > 9 > (checksum filenamne and show symbol checksum$checksum )  > : > Are you sure you are using  SET TYPE IMAGE in your FTP ?  I I download patches with the "D" command from LYNX.  I have done this for   years.  H Most (see below) other patches I downloaded, including the ALPHA versionE of the patch above, decompressed fine.  Thus, I'm pretty sure that I   haven't done anything wrong.  H > If you still have problems, let me know privately (remove the spamnot)F > and I can let you donwload from my site). This one came from the oldC > site many many months ago. Note that this upgrade breaks the IMAP C > server. So you may wish to backup anything related to IMAP before  > applying that patch.    I I have since gotten it from someone else who also got it from one of the  F (prematurely, we must say now) discontinued patch sites.  I might get G back to you, though, if you have the following patches, which are also   giving me problems:   F %DCL-W-ACTIMAGE, error activating image COBOLAE1027ECO2.A-DCX_AXPEXE;1P -CLI-E-IMGNAME, image file DSA510:[ADMIN.PATCH.LAYERED.ALPHA]COBOLAE1027ECO2.A-D CX_AXPEXE;1 9 -SYSTEM-F-PROTINSTALL, protected images must be installed   P         Original file specification: WORK5:[ECOKITBLD.LP.COMPLETE]CXXAE02062.A;1P         Decompressed file specification: DISK$USER:[ADMIN.PATCH.LAYERED.ALPHA]CX XAE02062.A;10 %FTSV-W-COMP_DECOMPERR, fatal decompressor error -DCX-W-TRUNC, data truncated   ------------------------------  * Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 22:05:36 +0000 (UTC)P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)0 Subject: SYPAGSWPFILES still replace on upgrade?$ Message-ID: <bojpbg$pf5$2@online.de>  & While searching the archives, I found   I           http://groups.google.de/groups?q=%2Bdeinstall+%2Bsypagswpfiles+ I           group:comp.os.vms&hl=de&lr=&ie=UTF-8&group=comp.os.vms&selm=142 &           4.276cabeb%40gp.co.nz&rnum=1   Which states  K    SYPAGSWAPFILES.COM is one of those files which gets replaced by a higher G    version during an upgrade, and therefore another thing which can get F    forgotten during an upgrade, and that is another reason why I would    prefer not to use it.    E It seems that any site-specific files which one is supposed to modifyu> should NOT be replaced by a higher version during an upgrade. D Rather, there should be a .TEMPLATE for those files and that should  be replaced during the upgrade.w  7 Does anyone have a definitive list of other such files?w  B Can one at least safely assume that the previous version is there  after the upgrade?   ------------------------------  * Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 02:25:45 +0000 (UTC)P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply). Subject: when should one use /IGNORE=NOBACKUP?$ Message-ID: <bok8j9$8a6$2@online.de>  I OK, I know what the qualifier does, why a file should be set to NOBACKUP iG and why one might wish to ignore this file attribute in some cases.  I  ) have a specific question in mind, though.n  D If I am making an "exact" copy of a system disk, I notice that some F files are set to NOBACKUP and, at least with standalone backup, these  files are not copied.d  G Does this matter?  (I'm talking about files which the system itself has G set to NOBACKUP.)  That is, will the new system disk work just like theh
 original?   7 Can one override this behaviour with standalone backup?s  G Can one override this behaviour by issuing the backup command from the s; menu obtained by booting a VAX distribution CD from [SYS1]?P   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 22:02:12 -0500( From: Wayne Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com>2 Subject: Re: when should one use /IGNORE=NOBACKUP?/ Message-ID: <00A289CC.6D09870E.1@tachysoft.com>a  J >From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to
 >      reply)- >X-Newsgroups: comp.os.vms/ >Subject: when should one use /IGNORE=NOBACKUP?,+ >Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 02:25:45 +0000 (UTC)< >Organization: Multivax C&Ru    J >OK, I know what the qualifier does, why a file should be set to NOBACKUP H >and why one might wish to ignore this file attribute in some cases.  I * >have a specific question in mind, though. >nE >If I am making an "exact" copy of a system disk, I notice that some  G >files are set to NOBACKUP and, at least with standalone backup, these t >files are not copied. >oH >Does this matter?  (I'm talking about files which the system itself hasH >set to NOBACKUP.)  That is, will the new system disk work just like the >original? r > 8 >Can one override this behaviour with standalone backup? >,H >Can one override this behaviour by issuing the backup command from the < >menu obtained by booting a VAX distribution CD from [SYS1]? >o    M nobackup is intended for files whose *content* is totally irrelevant, such asnL page files.  It is absolutely pointless to back up a page file, especially aO *big* page file.  You are filling up the tape with what is essentially garbage,dL at least from the viewpoint of a potential restore.   The pages currently inO the page file make sense only in the *current* boot, and would be replaced withu7 completely new data after a restore.  So why save them?d    O Files that are marked nobackup still go into the backup saveset, sort of.  OnlyoK the *header* is stored, not the content of the disk blocks.  Thus a restore0K would create a file with exactly the same size and attributes, but it would-I contain trash.  But this doesn't matter for a page file, since it will bei refilled from scratch anyway.DO ===============================================================================jN Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738   wayne@tachysoft.com; http://www.tachysoft.com/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html   bO ===============================================================================eH Randolph Duke (in Trading Places): "Mother always said you were greedy."1    Mortimer Duke: "She meant it as a compliment!"e   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Nov 2003 21:47:34 -0600l- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)n2 Subject: Re: when should one use /IGNORE=NOBACKUP?3 Message-ID: <YM4MptzCM8Q2@eisner.encompasserve.org>N  w In article <bok8j9$8a6$2@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes:oK > OK, I know what the qualifier does, why a file should be set to NOBACKUP  I > and why one might wish to ignore this file attribute in some cases.  I m+ > have a specific question in mind, though.s > F > If I am making an "exact" copy of a system disk, I notice that some H > files are set to NOBACKUP and, at least with standalone backup, these  > files are not copied.a > I > Does this matter?  (I'm talking about files which the system itself hasaI > set to NOBACKUP.)  That is, will the new system disk work just like thet > original?   E Yes, providing those who develop VMS have exercised correct judgementt/ in choosing the files on which this bit is set.   D I have never heard a complaint regarding their choices, and I do pay attention to this area.s  9 > Can one override this behaviour with standalone backup?t  F Is there some reason why /IGNORE=NOBACKUP does not work in that case ?  I > Can one override this behaviour by issuing the backup command from the -= > menu obtained by booting a VAX distribution CD from [SYS1]?m  0 Certainly /IGNORE=NOBACKUP works in _that_ case.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 23:15:25 -0500.* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>2 Subject: Re: when should one use /IGNORE=NOBACKUP?) Message-ID: <3FADBF38.779A97F1@istop.com>   / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:rJ > OK, I know what the qualifier does, why a file should be set to NOBACKUPH > and why one might wish to ignore this file attribute in some cases.  I+ > have a specific question in mind, though.t    H On a data disk, you may have some very large "archived" files that don'tL change and are already safely backed up but remain on-line for easy access. F You don't want those to slow down your daily backups, so you mark themJ /NOBACKUP. But when you need to make an exact replica of the drive (systemL changes etc), you then use a BACKUP/INGNORE=NOBACKUP to capture those files.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 05:13:52 GMTr% From: "Mike Naime" <mnaime@kc.rr.com>-2 Subject: Re: when should one use /IGNORE=NOBACKUP?8 Message-ID: <k2krb.10149$Vu6.9554@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>  5 JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in messageo# news:3FADBF38.779A97F1@istop.com...c1 > Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:nL > > OK, I know what the qualifier does, why a file should be set to NOBACKUPJ > > and why one might wish to ignore this file attribute in some cases.  I- > > have a specific question in mind, though.e >e >mJ > On a data disk, you may have some very large "archived" files that don'tE > change and are already safely backed up but remain on-line for easyt access.oH > You don't want those to slow down your daily backups, so you mark themL > /NOBACKUP. But when you need to make an exact replica of the drive (systemG > changes etc), you then use a BACKUP/INGNORE=NOBACKUP to capture thosel files.  L On our Aracle data drives, we set the Data Base files to NOBACKUP.  They areF noramaly  backed up through an RMAN backup.  The rest of the files are caught by Images/Incrementals.  D When we are copying these data files to larger LUNS, then we use theI BACKUP/IGNORE=NOBACKUP to transfer the files from one LUN to another LUN.a7 Otherwise you get the file headers, and no actual data.E   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 05:01:30 +0100L* From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>& Subject: Re: [OT] p*o*e*t*s of the day0 Message-ID: <3FADCA2A.508BB1C3@sture.homeip.net>   Tim Llewellyn wrote: >  > John Smith wrote:i > >$ > > Didier Morandi wrote:,8 > > > http://h18000.www1.hp.com/info/SP3343/SP3343PF.PDF > > P > > HP is really missing the boat on this....with an Alpha/VMS on a big cluster,M > > they'd have enough horsepower to control hundreds of thousands of cameras F > > simultaneously at ports of entry, bus/rail/subway stations and keyJ > > infrastructure locations. Then they'd just have to wash all the imagesL > > through facial and license plate capture software to get the bad guys in > > real-time. > >- > K > What makes you so sure some of the ahem less effective implementations of I > such systems are not on VMS? Just because you have VMS doesn't mean you " > can't implement a crap solution. > O > In no way am I implying that the London congestion charging system is on VMS, S > but it definitely doesn't work well and both London Transport and the contractors 2 > have been hiring VMS people in london this year. >w  7 But are they paying anything more than a survival wage?t    tP > btw you probably noticed anyway but the SPD dates from VMS 5.4 era (late 80's) >    Early nineties IIRC.   -- t
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 14:54:35 -0500o* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>) Subject: Re: [very OT] Matrix Revolutionse) Message-ID: <3FAD49F8.AF3BC0D4@istop.com>c   Fabio Cardoso wrote:J > By the way ...  it is just a movie ! I just don't try to understand it !< > Or why the frenchmen changed his name from Neo to Nemo ...  I Could be just the way someone heard it. Initially, I thought his name wasnK Neil. And wondered if the "matrix" simulation ran on one mega Alpha=poweredd VMS cluster :-)h  1 > Why light sabers stop the ligth in that size  ?s  N Because they lose energy with distance. You see, for the first few feet, thereK is enough energy to turn the air into glowing plasma, but after that, theree isn't enough energy left.o  G However, you'd think that they would compare their light sabres and sayp "mine's longer than yours" :-)  < > Why Liam Neeson Qui-Gon died and didnt appear like a ghost > like Alec Guiness's Obi-Wan?  ; He may appear in the next movie. Depends on his contract :-e  H > Why the princess is older than Anakin and after 10 years she look like> > the same ? Is the same technique of Hans Solo freezing ? ;-)  N Ever heard of plastic surgery and  makeup ? ;-) :-) :-) Besides, she first metK the boy before his puberty, and a couple of years later, he would have gone * through puberty and caught up with her :-)  J Also, if she travelled a lot, as queen and then as senator at the speed ofN light while Anakin was in class studying algebra, it would have given Anakin aN lot more time to grow up since time on her ships would have flowed at a slower; pace compared to Anakin's time in a non-moving environment.t  K All these things can be explained with today's science, even if at the timerJ they occured (remember, these historical domcumentaries begin with "a long= long time ago"), the technology may have seemed very special.y   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 12:58:27 -0800o/ From: Greg Cagle <news@removethisgregcagle.com>t) Subject: Re: [very OT] Matrix Revolutionsa/ Message-ID: <vqqm7pm70s3034@corp.supernews.com>e   JF Mezei wrote:f   > Fabio Cardoso wrote:  < >>Why Liam Neeson Qui-Gon died and didnt appear like a ghost >>like Alec Guiness's Obi-Wan? >  > = > He may appear in the next movie. Depends on his contract :-n  A My son says this is because Obi-Wan sacrificed himself purposely,e and Qui-Gon didn't, FWIW.:   -- a
 Greg Cagle gregc at gregcagle dot com   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 19:52:53 -0500l* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>) Subject: Re: [very OT] Matrix Revolutionsi) Message-ID: <3FAD8FCD.3B788339@istop.com>a  * Since this is an OT topic about movies....   Take a look at:o0 http://www.supermodels.it/macpherson/zoom/16.htm  @ And tell me Elle MacPherson shouldn't be the next Bond girl ....   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 20:45:36 -0500 % From: Howard Shubs <howard@shubs.net>e) Subject: Re: [very OT] Matrix RevolutionsA< Message-ID: <howard-6765AB.20453608112003@enews.newsguy.com>  / In article <vqqm7pm70s3034@corp.supernews.com>,,1  Greg Cagle <news@removethisgregcagle.com> wrote:a  C > My son says this is because Obi-Wan sacrificed himself purposely,h > and Qui-Gon didn't, FWIW.   < Ask your son about why Yoda shows up, then.  He simply died.   -- gD You are what you eat, therefore, I'm a vegetable!  Cows and chickens and Pop Tarts are too.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.621 ************************============================================================================= N Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738   wayne@tachysoft.com; http://www.tachysoft.com/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html    O =============================================================================== H Randolph Duke (in Trading Places): "Mother always said you were greedy."1    Mortimer DukeV`'DlF'q)I. XyoX?V &[Z>\F"\mjpdY(l1!	\;1pݚM5Ԣ䦅N $\&*<bs[>쵑^4-˴`#rDz7SeKz{%E(	o/$SOFJiش?4VLqc)+j.F#nO(M@PW{^m~G424dV.[Jۭg}2).;DfI`*$æ#  6giTj޳l#qҬNrw fhˉFEńQ^I[Vdg4PY`
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