1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 09 Nov 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 622       Contents:H Re: Advertising  - was Re: [OT/FUN] HP live chat popped up when browsing: Re: Does anyone shut down for system disk backup any more?: Re: Does anyone shut down for system disk backup any more?: Re: Does anyone shut down for system disk backup any more?' How long until IT employment vanishes ? + Re: How long until IT employment vanishes ? + Re: How long until IT employment vanishes ? + Re: How long until IT employment vanishes ? + Re: How long until IT employment vanishes ? = Re: How to determine how much TAPE-GB is required for DISK-GB ? Re: how to get a list of files with the /NOBACKUP attribute set ? Re: how to get a list of files with the /NOBACKUP attribute set ? Re: how to get a list of files with the /NOBACKUP attribute set , Re: JF Mezei caught trolling with pants down# NCL Blocking syntax - help required ' Re: NCL Blocking syntax - help required ' Re: NCL Blocking syntax - help required = Re: Newbie problem, act 2: recovering an old VMS installation ? Re: Possible to use character mode forms on VMS with Oracle 9i? ! Re: problems with ITRC patch site + Re: SYPAGSWPFILES still replace on upgrade?  Re: [OT] p*o*e*t*s of the day   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 10:48:05 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> Q Subject: Re: Advertising  - was Re: [OT/FUN] HP live chat popped up when browsing ' Message-ID: <3FAE6FC5.AA482742@fsi.net>    jlsue wrote: > 9 > On Thu, 06 Nov 2003 08:14:18 -0600, "David J. Dachtera"   > <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote: >  > >jlsue wrote:  > >>< > >> On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 20:16:10 -0600, "David J. Dachtera"# > >> <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:  > >> > >> >I > >> >I just had a flash of jlsue and Bill Todd in that scene from "Monty ! > >> >Python and The Holy Grail".  > >> >N > >> >Sorry to be so rough on you, Jeff. With all the sunshine hp is likely toN > >> >be "blowing up your skirt", it's easy to drift into a PollyAnna state... > >># > >> Hey, I can take it... I think. I > >> I merely challenge the lack of information being used as a source of  > >> information.  > > H > >Very proper and common place. For example, a break in the data streamI > >from a sensor can indicate more than one situation: the sensor failed, I > >the object the sensor was on was destroyed, the link to the sensor was E > >broken, etc. None the less, the lack of data indicates a situation  > >worthy of attention.  > C > Correct.  But what it does NOT do is suggest a single conclusion.   ) Bingo! You hit the nail dead on the head!   H In the absence of *SPECIFIC* information, almost *ANY*thing is possible.= The *ONLY* way to forestall such speculation is to cleary and H unequivocally state an intent, a drection, etc. Too bad hp/Q have such a huge credibility deficit...    > > B > >No news is not necessarily good news, but is news all the same. > L > It's not the news, it's the conclusions that are being drawn, and then theK > other following conclusions that are also built upon that one, and so on,  > and so on.   See above comment.  J > The inherent assumptions of the original conclusion are never questioned8 > after awhile, which just feeds the cycle continuously.  B ...which is *EXACTLY* why __A_D_V_E_R_T_I_S_I_N_G__ *AND* credibleD public statements are so *VITALLY* important! I repeat: Too bad hp/Q' have such a huge credibility deficit...    Are there any other questions?  F Y'know, I'm reminded of a Charlie Brown cartoon where he and Linus areF discussing that fact that the opposing team appear to have caught ontoH their signals. Charlie Brown remarks, "That means they know exactly whatD I'm going thro before I throw it?" and Linux says, "Worse than that.G They no longer care." I believe hp/Q to be in a similar situation, from F the other approach. They've "yanked the market's chain" so many times,H no one cares anymore what they say. The market now watches what they do,' and their words are ignored completely.   H ...which brings us back to the question of interpretation in the face ofE missing or unreliable information; so, this will likely be a circular 	 argument.    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 02:07:08 -0500  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>C Subject: Re: Does anyone shut down for system disk backup any more? 4 Message-ID: <1031109014534.403A-100000@Ives.egh.com>  # On Thu, 6 Nov 2003, JF Mezei wrote:    > not-Bob Deininger wrote:N > > Particularly in a cluster, /IGNORE bypasses the very mechanisms that wouldK > > let BACKUP detect the unwanted conditions.  BACKUP/IGNORE=INTERLOCK can H > > and does remain completely SILENT while failing to make a good copy. >  > O > Ok, then the VMS engineers should be given some priority in devising a modern L > way to safely backup a 24/365 system since that seems to be one of the fewJ > remaining market niches where VMS still has a big edge over competitors.  D Unfortunately, this is logically impossible unless there is a way toA force the application to cooperate, since the O/S can't know what E constitutes a transaction from the application's viewpoint.  However, E VMS does supply many tools to make this easier, or at least possible. = For example, DLM, RMS journalling, transaction services, etc.   B Maybe a standardize framework and some simplified tools would makeF it easier to write apps that know about a "we want to snapshot a disk;B please finish up any inprogress transactions, let us know when youE are done, and suspend[*] writes to the disk until we say it's okay to  proceed" signal.  F I did something like this using the VMS lock manager and journal filesD (and a lot of logic in the I/O modules of our major application), soE files could be backed up, reorganized (as in analyze/rms/fdl and then H convert/fdl to make an optimized version), moved to a different physicalD disk, etc.) with no user-visible downtime.  It is very special case,A and depends on all our app's access going through the same set of B functions.  Many database products have similar facilities.  ThereC is no standard way of doing this; you need to know what methods, if . any each application uses to quiesce them all.  ? [*] "suspend" literally, by waiting for the go-ahead signal, if A all you're waiting for is a member to get split off a shadow set, G or much more complicated methods using transaction logs on other disks, H checking reads against both the (read-only) database and the transactionB log, a way to roll the transaction logs into the database once theD backup is done, while maintaining read/write consistancy, monitoringE and testing tools, etc.  It was a lot of work!  Works pretty slickly,  though.   P > Remember thatr backups are not only in case of disk failures, but also in caseK > of user or application problems which require you go back to a previously  > known-to-be-good copy.  + Good point, which many people often forget.    --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 02:35:54 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>C Subject: Re: Does anyone shut down for system disk backup any more? ) Message-ID: <3FADEE29.15153866@istop.com>    John Santos wrote:F > Unfortunately, this is logically impossible unless there is a way toC > force the application to cooperate, since the O/S can't know what = > constitutes a transaction from the application's viewpoint.   E Which is why VMS engineers need to get involved to set some standard.   J For instance, an application could "register itself" to be notified when a backup needs some "quiet time".   I In a case of taking one shadowset member out for backup, you'd notify all J applicatiosn that registreed, wait for all of them to acknowledge (up to aK maximum of X seconds) and then split the shadowset, and tell the registered  apps to go on again.  N Backup could also be modified: whenever it hits an opened file, if the processH registered itself, backup to ask it to quiesce, wait up to X seconds forU acknowledgement, proceed with backup and then tell process it can restart processing.       M For this to work, it would have to be done by VMS engineers and documented as E standard with strong pressure from Digital to ISVs to implement this.     M One wonders how backups work in UNIX clusters when Node 1 does a backup while I other nodes continue to work with node1 unable to know if a file has been  opened by other nodes.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 14:19:37 GMT 5 From: rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) C Subject: Re: Does anyone shut down for system disk backup any more? L Message-ID: <rdeininger-0911030920210001@user-uinj067.dialup.mindspring.com>  P In article <bojm79$rrq$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>, gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de wrote:  N >We do a backup of the system disk during the night with /IGNORE=INTERLOCK andD >/VERIFY. The verification reveals an inconsistency in OPERATOR.LOG,N >ACCOUNTNG.DAT, VMS$AUDIT_SERVER.DAT and SYS$BASE_IMAGE.EXE . The former threeH >don't hurt, the files grew a bit larger between the real backup and the. >verification. But what is SYS$BASE_IMAGE.EXE?  A IIRC, the system time is written to a cell in SYS$BASE_IMAGE.EXE.    ------------------------------  5 Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 11:03 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) 9 From: duncan@macdonald.compulink.co.uk (Duncan Macdonald) 0 Subject: How long until IT employment vanishes ?A Message-ID: <memo.20031109110310.3088A@macdonald.compulink.co.uk>   M Many people who have VMS experience are now finding it difficult to get jobs. L How long will it be until most of the IT professional jobs go the same way ?L The following article in the Inquirer makes for sobering reading for any IT E worker in any high wage country (e.g. UK, US, Canada, Australia etc).   ) http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=12569   M This article says that any IT job that can be done at the end of a telephone  P and/or a data line is a candidate for outsourcing to a low wage country such as  India.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 06:29:04 -0700 % From: Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com> 4 Subject: Re: How long until IT employment vanishes ?B Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.2.20031109062837.01e69908@raptor.psccos.com>  ( The sky is falling!  The sky is falling!  . At 04:03 AM 11/9/2003, Duncan Macdonald wrote:N >Many people who have VMS experience are now finding it difficult to get jobs.M >How long will it be until most of the IT professional jobs go the same way ? L >The following article in the Inquirer makes for sobering reading for any ITF >worker in any high wage country (e.g. UK, US, Canada, Australia etc). > * >http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=12569 > M >This article says that any IT job that can be done at the end of a telephone I >and/or a data line is a candidate for outsourcing to a low wage country   >such as >India.    ------J +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+J | Dan O'Reilly                  |  "There are 10 types of people in this |J | Principal Engineer            |   world: those who understand binary   |J | Process Software              |   and those who don't."                |J | http://www.process.com        |                                        |J +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 08:48:29 -0500& From: "Chris Moore" <just@my.twocents>4 Subject: Re: How long until IT employment vanishes ?5 Message-ID: <Wzrrb.50$kA6.8713@news20.bellglobal.com>   2 "Dan O'Reilly" <dano@process.com> wrote in message< news:6.0.0.22.2.20031109062837.01e69908@raptor.psccos.com...* > The sky is falling!  The sky is falling! >       1 Except this time Chicken Little is probably right         0 > At 04:03 AM 11/9/2003, Duncan Macdonald wrote:J > >Many people who have VMS experience are now finding it difficult to get jobs. I > >How long will it be until most of the IT professional jobs go the same  way ? K > >The following article in the Inquirer makes for sobering reading for any  ITH > >worker in any high wage country (e.g. UK, US, Canada, Australia etc). > > , > >http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=12569 > > E > >This article says that any IT job that can be done at the end of a 	 telephone J > >and/or a data line is a candidate for outsourcing to a low wage country
 > >such as	 > >India.  >  > ------L > +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+L > | Dan O'Reilly                  |  "There are 10 types of people in this |L > | Principal Engineer            |   world: those who understand binary   |L > | Process Software              |   and those who don't."                |L > | http://www.process.com        |                                        |L > +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+ >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 15:41:59 GMT + From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (leslie) 4 Subject: Re: How long until IT employment vanishes ?8 Message-ID: <bftrb.24175$Mc.14945@twister.austin.rr.com>  % Chris Moore (just@my.twocents) wrote: 4 : "Dan O'Reilly" <dano@process.com> wrote in message> : news:6.0.0.22.2.20031109062837.01e69908@raptor.psccos.com..., : > The sky is falling!  The sky is falling! : >  : 3 : Except this time Chicken Little is probably right  :    And IT is only the beginning...   B    http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/03_05/b3818001.htm:    BW Online | February 3, 2003 | The New Global Job Shift  E   "The next round of globalization is sending upscale jobs offshore.  H    They include basic research, chip design, engineering--even financialF    analysis. Can America lose these jobs and still prosper? Who wins? 
    Who loses?   	    [snip]   M    Near Bangalore's airport, at the offices of Wipro Ltd., five radiologists  E    interpret 30 CT scans a day for Massachusetts General Hospital..."     K One economist who served under Reagan feels what is going on is *NOT* free   trade...  1    http://www.vdare.com/roberts/us_china_econ.htm J    09/29/03 - Statement of The Honorable Paul Craig Roberts, Ph.D. Before 9    the U.S.-China Economic and Security Review Commission   C   "Members of the Commission, I appear before you as an independent H    witness, representing no interest group. I was Assistant Secretary ofI    the Treasury for Economic Policy during President Reagan's first term. H    I have worked on the Hill for Jack Kemp (I wrote the Kemp-Roth Bill),C    for the House Budget Committee and for Orrin Hatch and the Joint G    Economic Committee. I have held a number of academic posts. I was an F    editor and columnist for the Wall Street Journal and for 16 years a    columnist for Business Week.   E    Currently, I am chairman of the Institute for Political Economy, a F    Senior Research Fellow in the Hoover Institution at Stanford, and a    syndicated columnist.  I    I offer a different perspective on the "job loss recovery." If my view I    is correct, we face a new problem that cannot be handled with exchange I    rate adjustments, retraining programs, employee protections, tax cuts, F    low interest rates, tort reform, and deregulation. If I am correct,D    the job losses that we are experiencing are not the result of theH    normal workings of free trade through which resources are reallocatedB    from uses where they are noncompetitive to uses where they have    comparative advantage.   E    I suggest for your consideration that comparative advantage, which D    permits free trade to create gains for trading partners, has beenE    undermined by the international mobility of factors of production. ?    Instead of sectorial adjustments from changes in competitive @    conditions, we might be experiencing the flight of factors of?    production to countries where their productivity is highest.   	    [snip]   D    What we are witnessing in part is the loss of a sense of nationalG    identity. Many things have brought about this loss of identity. Open B    borders, massive immigration of third world peoples, attacks onC    American identity by cultural Marxists and post-modernists. Many H    things are eroding a sense of cohesiveness. A tower of Babel is not a    country.   C    Our approach to the world is based on the assumption that we are H    experiencing free trade. If, instead, we are experiencing the flow ofG    factors of production to absolute advantage, our entire trade policy     will need to be revised.   F    As the solution is draconian, it is important to be certain that weF    are experiencing the substitution of American labor out of AmericanB    production functions, and not merely lagging employment after a6    recession or layoffs due to productivity increases.  H    Time will tell. If the economy continues to shed jobs while it grows,:    either in absolute terms or relative to the establishedD    growth-employment relationship, the case for my view strengthens.  G    In the meantime, it would be helpful to track the kinds of jobs that I    are lost and the kinds that are gained. If we are losing manufacturing I    and knowledge jobs and gaining retail and government jobs, the ladders F    of upward mobility are collapsing along with the growth of income."    F The three U.S. credit reporting agencies are starting to outsource our credit histories overseas...  J    http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2003/11/07/MNG4Q2SEAM1.DTL+    Credit agencies sending our files abroad   A   "Two of the three major credit-reporting agencies, each holding I    detailed files on about 220 million U.S. consumers, are in the process E    of outsourcing sensitive operations abroad, and a third may follow F    suit shortly, industry officials acknowledge for the first time..."   --Jerry Leslie9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for email    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 18:08:47 GMT 4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>4 Subject: Re: How long until IT employment vanishes ?0 Message-ID: <3FAE81D5.D9DF8CD4@blueyonder.co.uk>   Duncan Macdonald wrote:  > O > Many people who have VMS experience are now finding it difficult to get jobs. N > How long will it be until most of the IT professional jobs go the same way ?M > The following article in the Inquirer makes for sobering reading for any IT G > worker in any high wage country (e.g. UK, US, Canada, Australia etc).  > + > http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=12569  > N > This article says that any IT job that can be done at the end of a telephoneQ > and/or a data line is a candidate for outsourcing to a low wage country such as  > India.  L I wonder how much of the 2 million bucks saving the guys in the Windows 20036 ad are touting while line dancing is actually payroll?  I One can't help thinking that serious cultural, economic and technological ? issues are being ignored given the pace of change in this area.   / What can the small guy on the street do though?    --   tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 11:10:09 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> F Subject: Re: How to determine how much TAPE-GB is required for DISK-GB' Message-ID: <3FAE74F1.D5137888@fsi.net>    John Brandon wrote:  > Q > A bit back I asked how to determine the amount of MB that was being put to tape P > and the answer was a combination of f$getdvi(device,"OPCNT"), /BLOCKS=, and so > on.  > Q > Now I was wondering if there is a way to determine how much TAPE will be needed M > for DISK, using the variances of number of files, file size, etc.  Is there  > such a methodology out there?   E I've found experimentation and experience are about the only reliable  methods.   > For example. > > > I have two devices, roughly 34-GB each for a total of 68-GB.J > I backup these two devices to a 35/70 (TL89 series) with compression on.  G Hardware compression cannot be relied on to achieve any specific target B density. The actual compression realized will always depend on the6 nature of the input data (lots of repetitive bytes?).   G For uncompressed tape volumes, I usually start with the native capacity H and subtract about 15% for overhead (BACKUP redundancy blocks, tapemarks@ between savesets, etc.) and work from there. For compressed tapeG volumes, I usually start with 150% of the native capacity and "push the F limits" from there until I find what my data will end up as during the backup process.   F > I would expect that the 68-GB of disk would fit onto the 70-GB tape.  ) Depending, likely closer to 60-62GB, max.    > However I overflow the tape. > Q > Disk # 1 is a collection of small number of large files.  I do not beleive that % > this disk is causing the over-flow.    How can you tell?   M > Disk # 2 is a collection of a large number of small files.  Roughly 160,000  > files on this disk.  > M > I beleive that the problem is due to the large number of small files on the  > disk.   # Maybe, but again, how can you tell?   L > Is there a way to determine the amount of tape space used by file headers?  B Well, BACKUP has its own format for file headers within a saveset.G Otherwise, if you're just COPYing, file headers are 80 bytes per record A plus a tape mark at the end of the label dataset, the actual file H content plus another tape mark, then 80 bytes per record for the trailerF label dataset, plus another tape mark, and a final tape mark to signal end of volume.  L > I would like to create a utility that I can run against a disk in order to< > calculate the amount of tape space that would be required.  G If you know or can deermine the compression algorithm used by the drive E firmware, you *MAY* be able to duplicate it, provided you're applying F that to an uncompressed saveset on disk. Otherwise, its rather more of an exercise.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 09:28:29 GMT 0 From: HARANGOZO CSABA   <spameater@spam.invalid>H Subject: Re: how to get a list of files with the /NOBACKUP attribute set5 Message-ID: <1Nnrb.967$xm.49597@nasal.pacific.net.au>   Q Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply <helbig@astro.multiclothesvax.de> wrote:  > Subject says it all. > B > How can one get a list of files with the NOBACKUP attribute set?  A 	One solution would be using a DCL loop with the lexical function  	F$FILE_ATTRIBUTES.   @ 	( A lazy way would be scanning a full BACKUP log in which files' 	marked NOBACKUP would be listed... :-)  							Cheers,  Csaba   J  -------------------------------------------------------------------------H   CSABA I. HARANGOZO  |d|i|g|i|t|a|l|  csabah(at)zipworld(dot)com(dot)auJ  -------------------------------------------------------------------------;    EARTH::AUSTRALIA:[SYDNEY]HARANGOZO.CSABA;1, delete? [N]:     Weinberg's Law : F   If builders built buildings the way programmers write programs, thenB   the first woodpecker that came along would destroy civilisation.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 09:55:34 +0000  From: Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net> H Subject: Re: how to get a list of files with the /NOBACKUP attribute set) Message-ID: <3FAE0F1C.F85987D2@Omond.net>   / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:    > Subject says it all. > B > How can one get a list of files with the NOBACKUP attribute set?  B Phillip, do yourself a big favour.  Get DFU, install it, and spend* 20 minutes learning its many capabilities.  @ It can do a helluva lot of things that any decent system manager would want (and quickly !).   > You want to find all files on Disk$Helbig marked as nobackup ?  /     $ mcr dfu search disk$helbig /char=nobackup    Much faster than any DCL loop.  	 Roy Omond  Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 11:44:44 +0100 ) From: Michael Unger <unger@despammed.com> H Subject: Re: how to get a list of files with the /NOBACKUP attribute set: Message-ID: <bol62q$1fsjrb$2@ID-152801.news.uni-berlin.de>  F On 2003-11-09 03:22, "Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply" wrote:   > Subject says it all. > B > How can one get a list of files with the NOBACKUP attribute set?  G F$FILE_ATTRIBUTES(filespec, "NOBACKUP") inside of a DCL procedure using . F$SEARCH(filespec) to loop around the disk(s).   Michael    --  ; Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers. @ Please do *not* send "Security Patch Notifications" or "SecurityA Updates"; this system isn't running a Micro$oft operating system. = My e-mail account at DECUS Munich will expire on 31-Dec-2003.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 14:43:26 +0800: From: "Nik" <spamavoid.deletethis.mnjensen@netvigator.com>5 Subject: Re: JF Mezei caught trolling with pants down 1 Message-ID: <boknmg$edf12@imsp212.netvigator.com>   J This certainly is a total and complete idiot posting here. The lowest scum imaginable. A total disgrace!!!    Nik.  2 "Nomen Nescio" <nobody@dizum.com> wrote in message2 news:2a8a5fc514ea93b858e11e43617f997f@dizum.com...- > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote:  >  > >"Jorge R. Frank" wrote:I > >> Apparently because JF Mezei ran out of Star Trek pseudonyms. I don't  know* > >> why he bothers; we all know it's him. > > I > >Your message have been brought to my attention. First of all, I do not  know if K > >you are using a royal "we" of if you officially represent some group who  are K > >out to insult selected people even after they have left "your" newsgroup  ?  > > L > >I do not know why or why you would want to attribute some anonymous posts toJ > >me.  My IP addess begins with 66. But my ISP uses a proxy to access the newsH > >server operated by Sympatico. In case you didn't know, Sympatico is a veryB > >large ISP in Canada, so just because my posts appear to be from Sympatico, you" > >cannot assume it comes from me. > K > Yeah, right, they must be coming from the same disembodied entity who has I > posted hundreds of rabid anti-American trolls in other groups under the K > colorful names below.  It's amazing how they manage to "forge" (according K > to you) EVERY single detail of your headers so perfectly.  Even the parts K > that can't be forged because they are added by the ISP AFTER the post has ; > been sent and can't be altered.  Must be powerful ghosts!  > K > It's unbelieveable how you can continue to deny it, even when you've been H > caught out.  But then, what would one expect from an adult baby  whose mindJ > is still obsessed with sexual stuff that most teenagers have outgrown byG > the time they leave high school.  Just witness where your mind dwells  based ? > on the trolling aliases you've used recently in other groups:  > # > Phi Mosis <Phi.Mosis@anatomy.org> % > Bal Anatis <Bal.Anatis@anatomy.org> " > Fren Ullum <F.Ullum@anatomy.org>, > Wan Tnoneofit <W.Tnoneofit@weirdnames.org>  > Wan Itbad <W.Itbad@inneed.org># > Wan Towank <W.ToWank@anatomy.org> ! > Wan Tolik <w.tolik@anatomy.org> ' > Empty Stomach <E.Stomach@anatomy.org> & > Full Stomach <f.stomach@anatomy.org>& > Ivanna Getlaid <I.Getlaid@onani.org>( > Ivanna Wankalot <I.Wankalot@onani.org>& > Ivanna Umpalot <Humpalot@drevil.com>( > Inserted Finger <I.Finger@anatomy.org>$ > Smelly Cat <S.Cat@friends.nbc.com>' > Lihk Mhygroin <L.MyGroin@anatomy.org>  > Pre Khum <P.Khum@anatomy.org> ( > Torn Ligament <T.Ligament@anatomy.org>* > Voluptuous Nipple <V.nipple@anatomy.org>& > Testos Terone <t.terone@anatomy.org># > Upper Gonad <U.Gonad@anatomy.org> # > Right Gonad <R.Gonad@anatomy.org> " > Left Gonad <L.Gonad@anatomy.org>& > Tyson's Glands <Tyson.G@anatomy.org>  > Nose Hair <n.hair@anatomy.org>' > Coronal Sulcus <C.Sulcus@anatomy.org> ' > Corpus Cavernus <manhood@anatomy.org> & > Armpit moisture <armpit@anatomy.org>) > Pubic dandruff <P.dandruff@anatomy.org>  > Onani Room <onani@hotels.com> ! > Pubic Nair <shaved@anatomy.org> ) > Flatulent Meatus <F.Meatus@anatomy.org> ( > Arnie's Banana <weiner@terminator.com> > Wet fart <w.Fart@smell.org> * > Raised eyebrows <r.eyebrows@anatomy.org>' > Vas Deferens <V.deferens@anatomy.org> ' > Naked Canuck <N.canuck@naturists.org> ( > Arni's socks <Smelly.Socks@arnold.org>, > Notable Exception <N.exception@untied.com>) > Deep Fried Foreskin <dff@mcdonalds.com> $ > Aroma of Smegma <aroma@chanel.org>& > Popped Cherry <P.Cherry@anatomy.org>( > Unpopped Cherry <U.Cherry@anatomy.org>$ > Raised Organ <R.Organ@anatomy.org>) > Tatooed Ovaries <T.Ovaries@anatomy.org> ) > Pierced eyelid <p.eyelid@piercings.org> * > Limp Tomato <limp.tomato@vegetables.org>. > Eggplant Earrings <e.earrings@piercings.org>0 > Banana Underpants <B.Underpants@hillfiger.org>' > Loose Scrotum <l.scrotum@anatomy.org>  > Naval Lint <navel@lint.mil> ) > Ingrown Toenail <i.toenail@anatomy.org> ' > Throbbing vulva <t.vulva@anatomy.org> & > Flapping Labias <flabia@anatomy.org> > Twin Gonads <two@gonads.com>/ > Monica Lewinski <billclinton@westchester.com>  > etc. >    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 09:23:02 +0100 * From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>, Subject: NCL Blocking syntax - help required0 Message-ID: <3FAE0776.297D4D79@sture.homeip.net>  & OK, dumb Sunday morning question here.  7 My operator log is full of messages like the following:       ; -- %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM   9-NOV-2003 03:40:18.82  %%%%%%%%%%% " Message from user SYSTEM on MYNODEH Event: Address Unreachable PDU Discard from: Node LOCAL:.MYNODE Routing,-         at: 2003-11-09-03:40:18.825+01:00Iinf 1         Discard Reason=Destination Addrs Unknown, 6         Source Address=49::00-36:AA-00-04-00-7A-D8:20,9         Forwarding Address=49::00-36:AA-00-04-00-7B-D8:20 7         eventUid   7058A3A3-1266-11D8-89BD-44494E412020 7         entityUid  6EC830EC-C670-11D7-8375-AA0004007AD8 7         streamUid  71CE8E0D-C670-11D7-83BA-AA0004007AD8        F These appear to occur when my satellite node is switched off (no sense+ burning electricity when I'm not using it).   D Can someone suggest the correct NCL syntax for blocking this please.     --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 10:59:16 +0100  From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>0 Subject: Re: NCL Blocking syntax - help required2 Message-ID: <bol3cc$rh2$1@news2.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>   Paul Sture wrote: ( > OK, dumb Sunday morning question here. > 9 > My operator log is full of messages like the following:  >  >  > = > -- %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM   9-NOV-2003 03:40:18.82  %%%%%%%%%%% $ > Message from user SYSTEM on MYNODEJ > Event: Address Unreachable PDU Discard from: Node LOCAL:.MYNODE Routing,/ >         at: 2003-11-09-03:40:18.825+01:00Iinf 3 >         Discard Reason=Destination Addrs Unknown, 8 >         Source Address=49::00-36:AA-00-04-00-7A-D8:20,; >         Forwarding Address=49::00-36:AA-00-04-00-7B-D8:20 9 >         eventUid   7058A3A3-1266-11D8-89BD-44494E412020 9 >         entityUid  6EC830EC-C670-11D7-8375-AA0004007AD8 9 >         streamUid  71CE8E0D-C670-11D7-83BA-AA0004007AD8  >      > H > These appear to occur when my satellite node is switched off (no sense- > burning electricity when I'm not using it).  > F > Can someone suggest the correct NCL syntax for blocking this please. >  > L Alternatively you can try to find out which process on your other system is L trying to reach your satellite node all the time. That is causing all these 	 messages.    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 14:15:40 GMT 5 From: rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) 0 Subject: Re: NCL Blocking syntax - help requiredL Message-ID: <rdeininger-0911030916220001@user-uinj067.dialup.mindspring.com>  ; In article <3FAE0776.297D4D79@sture.homeip.net>, Paul Sture   <nospam@sture.homeip.net> wrote:  ' >OK, dumb Sunday morning question here.  > 8 >My operator log is full of messages like the following: >  >  >   E DECnet plus messages always identify themselves within the message...   < >-- %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM   9-NOV-2003 03:40:18.82  %%%%%%%%%%%# >Message from user SYSTEM on MYNODE I >Event: Address Unreachable PDU Discard from: Node LOCAL:.MYNODE Routing, H         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^H         ^    (1)                                   (2)            (3)  ^H         ^                                                              ^H         ^< This is the event you want to block                         ^H                                                                        ^H                                                                        ^H                and this is the thing that generates it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>^  A You typically modify NET$EVENT_LOCAL.NCL to block these messages.    I would try this NCL command:i  C BLOCK EVENT DISPATCHER OUTBOUND STREAM local_stream GLOBAL FILTER -i5    ((NODE, ROUTING), Address Unreachable PDU Discard)c$       (2)    (3)                 (1)  G ... where I've put numbers in parentheses to show how the components ofm7 the message correspond to the parts of the NCL command.i  H This is a global filter; it will block all ROUTING messages of this type from any node.      . >        at: 2003-11-09-03:40:18.825+01:00Iinf2 >        Discard Reason=Destination Addrs Unknown,7 >        Source Address=49::00-36:AA-00-04-00-7A-D8:20,e: >        Forwarding Address=49::00-36:AA-00-04-00-7B-D8:208 >        eventUid   7058A3A3-1266-11D8-89BD-44494E4120208 >        entityUid  6EC830EC-C670-11D7-8375-AA0004007AD88 >        streamUid  71CE8E0D-C670-11D7-83BA-AA0004007AD8 >      >oG >These appear to occur when my satellite node is switched off (no sensen, >burning electricity when I'm not using it). > E >Can someone suggest the correct NCL syntax for blocking this please.  >d >r >--  >Paul Sturee   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 11:18:50 GMTi- From: Mike Rechtman <michael.rechtman@hp.com>rF Subject: Re: Newbie problem, act 2: recovering an old VMS installation& Message-ID: <3FAE3E07.223CF5BD@hp.com>   WiseLYNX wrote:  > U > > I would suspect your disk is corrupt, or your hardware config has not too kosher. . > .. mh.. what does "kosher" exactly means? :) > L > > Try b/1 to get to the SYSBOOT> prompt, if that succeeds, use the commandJ > > SYSBOOT> SET STARTUP_P1 = "MIN"     (not sure of = is required or not) > > SYSBOOT> SET VAXCLUSTER = 0o > > SYSBOOT> SET MSCP = 0  > > SYSBOOT> SET/STARTUP=OPA0: > > SYSBOOT> CONTINUEw > >tN > > This invokes a minimal boot with minimal configuration of devices. It thisR > > gets you further, it may be a hint. If you get to the $ sign, you will be in a" > > extremely limited environment. > >i  B There _was_ IIRC on a not-so-up-to-date version of OVMS a fix for 8 VA_IN_USE error - try doubling SYSGEN parameter CTLPAGES  H SYSBOOT > SHOW CTLPAGES  <--- remember what this shows, in case you want to back out + SYSBOOT > SET CTLPAGES (twice former value)e    , > > You can then try ANA/DISK/REPAIR DKA200:D > OK, I can do it all, and it's the first time I see the $ prompt byJ > booting from the HD :) The problem is, when I launch the repair command, > I get the following errors:  > ; > %RMS-F-BUG, fatal RMS condition detected, process deletedd; > -RMS-F-BUG, fatal RMS condition detected, process deleted- > ' > and the system hangs there once more.0 > I > Because Didier Morandi in a previous post suggested that it could be an:@ > hardware failure, do you think it could be not just a softwareE > corruption? I have to say that I can't anyway trying the disk(s) on M > another machine, because this is the only one I have that has a SCSI bus :/  > S > > If you can't do any of this. I would consider a low level format of your drive. Q > > At the >>> prompt, use TEST 75 and follow the prompts. Once the disk has beeneV > > reformatted, you can then try again to load the B saveset in the conventional way.J > I was wondering if could be a good thing to low-level-format the disk(s)I > anyway when I'll be able to redo the VMS install.. would you suggest itv	 > or not?l >  > Thank you for the hints :) >  > -- > 
 >  Wise >   O  LYNX7 > : > GPG key: http://wiselynx.interfree.it/wiselynx.naima.ascC > MD5 checksum: http://wiselynx.interfree.it/wiselynx.naima.asc.md5  > ! > -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----  > Version: 3.1K > GE>$/IT/S d+ s: !a>? C++(+++)>$ U P>+ L++>++++ E--- W++ N ?o ?K w-- ?O ?MeI > ?V>+ PS+ !PE Y+ PGP+ t- ?5 X- R+(*) tv- b+(++)>+++ DI(++) !D G e++ h!*@e
 > r%>++ y-->+e! > ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------    -- sE ---------------------------------------------------------------------aE Usual disclaimer: All opinions are mine alone, perhaps not even that.u? Mike Rechtman                            *rechtman@tzora.co.il*sF Kibbutz Tzor'a.                          Voice (home): 972-2-9908337  B   "20% of a job takes 80% of the time, the rest takes another 80%"E ---------------------------------------------------------------------g -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----  Version: 3.1: GCM/CS d(-)pu s:+>:- a++ C++ U-- L-- W++ N++ K? w--- V+++$6 PS+ PE-- t 5? X- tv-- b+ DI+ D-- G e++ h--- r+++ y+++@ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------k   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 10:54:35 +0100l From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>H Subject: Re: Possible to use character mode forms on VMS with Oracle 9i?2 Message-ID: <bol33j$o0v$1@news3.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>  Q Forms 4.5 is the last Forms version supported on VMS, and it is end of life (and n	 support).d  Q If you have a Oracle forms application on VMS, take a look at the Exodus product:c   http://www.ciphersoftinc.com/t  O It will convert Forms applications to Java, and you will get a very modern web e based application.  O Keep in mind that this is the way to go for all (!!) Oracle Forms applications  H on every platform, since Oracle wants you to abolish Forms all together.  O However it may be wise to wait a little bit. If my information is right we may  F expect some announcements on the subject of Exodus and VMS quite soon.     Bill McLaughlin wrote:G > Hello. I've poked around looking for info on character mode forms for-F > VMS but I haven't found anything definite about running forms on VMSB > with 9i. Is anyone doing this? I looked for some older developerE > software to download because someone had told me that Forms 6 would A > still work but I can't find any of the older stuff to download.: > 	 > Thanks.i > Bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 13:47:16 GMTa5 From: rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger)o* Subject: Re: problems with ITRC patch siteL Message-ID: <rdeininger-0911030848000001@user-uinj067.dialup.mindspring.com>  D In article <bojs31$tsh$1@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de1 (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) wrote:l   ...   B >     4.1  Version(s) of OpenVMS to which this kit may be applied: >d! >     OpenVMS VAX V5.5-2 - V7.2-1  >bD >This is obviously wrong, since there is no 7.2-1 VAX.  What is the 9 >highest version of VMS on which this kit can be applied?t  ) I don't know the answer to your question.-  @ But I hope you are reporting each of these patch problems to the appropriate folks over at ITRC.,  @ You might get lucky, and George will see your report here in the newsgroup.  Or maybe not.r   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 18:15:57 GMTs4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>4 Subject: Re: SYPAGSWPFILES still replace on upgrade?0 Message-ID: <3FAE8381.B2CEEC4D@blueyonder.co.uk>  / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:0  .C > Can one at least safely assume that the previous version is theree > after the upgrade?  7 You are doing an upgrade without taking a backup first?C  G I am not sure if the old version gets purged, if I ha d to make a guessi I would say not. n   -- a tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 16:32:31 GMTa4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>& Subject: Re: [OT] p*o*e*t*s of the day0 Message-ID: <3FAE6B62.68A536F0@blueyonder.co.uk>   Paul Sture wrote:L  o > 9 > But are they paying anything more than a survival wage?-   Nope,  -- u tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.622 ************************