1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 12 Nov 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 627       Contents:; Re: Alpha Server 1000A OS install and/or documentation help $ Re: Concurrent users from AccountingG Does anyone know if the DE500-XA (10-100 NIC) works OK with OVMS 7.3??? K Re: Does anyone know if the DE500-XA (10-100 NIC) works OK with OVMS 7.3??? 2 ENDOFJOB.COM similiar to SYLOGIN.COM and LOGIN.COM6 Re: ENDOFJOB.COM similiar to SYLOGIN.COM and LOGIN.COM6 Re: ENDOFJOB.COM similiar to SYLOGIN.COM and LOGIN.COM6 Re: ENDOFJOB.COM similiar to SYLOGIN.COM and LOGIN.COM6 Re: ENDOFJOB.COM similiar to SYLOGIN.COM and LOGIN.COM Re: Erasing a disk Re: Erasing a disk Re: Erasing a disk Re: Erasing a disk Re: Erasing a disk Re: Erasing a disk+ Re: How long until IT employment vanishes ? + Re: How long until IT employment vanishes ?  Re: IA64 TPC results Re: IA64 TPC results Re: IA64 TPC results Re: IA64 TPC results Re: IA64 TPC results Re: IA64 TPC results Re: IA64 TPC results# Re: Image needs to know where it is # Re: Image needs to know where it is # Re: Image needs to know where it is # Re: Image needs to know where it is  Re: Open source DBM's / Re: Oracle Migration Problem when going to ds15 - status or itrc and OpenVMS Patch Mailing List 1 Re: status or itrc and OpenVMS Patch Mailing List  VAX 6130 relaunched !!!! Re: VAX Telemarketers!!  Re: VAX Telemarketers!!  Re: VAX Telemarketers!!  Re: VMS Spiffy Text Editors  Re: VMS Spiffy Text Editors   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 03:15:46 GMT 5 From: rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) D Subject: Re: Alpha Server 1000A OS install and/or documentation helpL Message-ID: <rdeininger-1111032216350001@user-105n8po.dialup.mindspring.com>  ? In article <3fb102dc$0$25271$4c5eba9e@news.getnet.net>, "Bunki"  <kmstoddard@getnet.net> wrote:   >Thank for your help, David. > 6 >"David Froble" <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in message' >news:3FB019DE.3000809@tsoft-inc.com...  >> K. M. Stoddard wrote: >> >   .  >   . 
 >   <snip> >   .  >   .  >>G >> As for booting a CD in the drive, a simple BOOT DKA400 should do it.  >>; >I thought so too but the response from the boot loader is,  >  "Building FRU table7 >   block 0 of dka400.4.0.6.0 is not a valid boot block  >   bootstrap failure" > M >I'm not sure if the CD is an image file or a mix of image and executables so L >IF there is a boot block on this CD, I don't know how to access it from theJ >boot prompt.  I was hoping someone out there encountered this same issue.K >I've done upgrades from 7.1 to 7.2 but it is quite different to do a fresh 	 >install.   F An alpha installation CD is essesntially a VMS system disk, with a fewD tweeks to make it work on a read-only device, and a modified startupB sequence that gets you to the install menu instead of regular VMS.  J The CD contains many executable files.  And command files, and help files, and text files, and ...   1 The "not a valid boot block" message means either 1 1) you don't have a VMS alpha installation CD, or G 2) your CD drive is so wacky is can't complete the first read operation 
 successfully.   I The alpha system architecture defines how a boot block is found on a disk ( or a CD.  This is independent of the OS.  J Are you sure DKA400 is the CD device on your system?  You're not trying to! boot some random disk by mistake?    ...   K >This is interesting.  What I don't see is anything suggesting that OpenVMS F >V6.2-1H2 is a VAX or Alpha OS image.  Whereas the license information% >clearly shows the hardware is Alpha.   ' Does the CD have a label printed on it?      >  >> >   .  >   . 
 >   <snip> >   .  >   .  >>D >> If this system is for commercial use, then you should think about >contacting HPI >> and getting a current version of VMS.  If it's not for commercial use, 	 >then get M >> a new hobbyist license and media with the latest available version of VMS.  >An  >> Alpha/VMS version of VMS! >>K >It is not commercial.  I just want to keep up my VMS System Administration I >and VAX/DEC C programming skills while looking for work.  I have gone to K >EncompassUs and registered for the Hobbyist License and I have gone to the K >Hobbyist WEB site to try to find V7.2 but all they have posted is V7.3.  I L >really would rather prefer to stay with a more stable release than V7.3, ifM >possible.  I have an e-mail request into the WEB Master at this time for any 5 >URLs on the site that lead to the V7.2 distribution.   I V7.3 for alpha is far reliable that V7.2.  If you really insist on a V7.2 5 release level, definitely use V7.2-2, not plain V7.2.   A Best options would be V7.3-1 or V7.3-2 when it becomes available.        -- not-Bob   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Nov 2003 13:34:40 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) - Subject: Re: Concurrent users from Accounting 3 Message-ID: <7KgGWkrkU87J@eisner.encompasserve.org>   y In article <bor6e4$1gvbq0$1@ID-141708.news.uni-berlin.de>, "Peter Weaver" <WeaverConsultingServices@sympatico.ca> writes:  > Mark Jilson wrote:> >> FWIW I've logged a suggestion to have ACCOUNTING /REPORT be	 > able to  >> report start & finish times.  >> ... > ? > If anyone is changing ACCOUNTING, please change it so it does  > not do this anymore; > $ acc/sinc > %ACC-E-READERR, error reading ' > SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSMGR]ACCOUNTNG.DAT;480   C    The accounting file format is well documented so you can read it G    yourself if you have to.  Back in VMS 2 days there was no ACCOUNTING D    command, we had a little Fortran program that we used to read and    report the file contents.   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Nov 2003 14:49:31 -0800  From: len@psds.com (Len Whitwer)P Subject: Does anyone know if the DE500-XA (10-100 NIC) works OK with OVMS 7.3???= Message-ID: <ecd67d30.0311111449.2d46b095@posting.google.com>   . Has anyone run OVMS 7.3 with an old DE500-XA??   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 00:36:01 GMT % From: "Mike Naime" <mnaime@kc.rr.com> T Subject: Re: Does anyone know if the DE500-XA (10-100 NIC) works OK with OVMS 7.3???8 Message-ID: <Rffsb.23294$Vu6.9629@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>  I Yes, We used to have the single port NICS in several of our Alphaservers. F They have been phased out for DE602's since we required the dual NICS.  G They show up as a WE0, WE1...etc device instead of IE0, IE1, IE2...Etc. E When you change a system from one to the other, you wind up having to . re-assign IP addresses to the different ports.  + Len Whitwer <len@psds.com> wrote in message 7 news:ecd67d30.0311111449.2d46b095@posting.google.com... 0 > Has anyone run OVMS 7.3 with an old DE500-XA??   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 15:35:25 -0600 ( From: brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon); Subject: ENDOFJOB.COM similiar to SYLOGIN.COM and LOGIN.COM 1 Message-ID: <03111115352530@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>   M When a batch process (or any process for that matter) is created the loginout O (I assume) executes SYLOGIN.COM and (typically) LOGIN.COM prior to the submited  command procedure is executed.  N Working on a couple of projects I came to the conclusion that it would be coolD to have an ENDOFJOB.COM executed at the end of the batch job - as is7 SYLOGIN.COM executed at the beginning of the batch job.   G A number of ways to acomplish this come to mind - however this requires $ changes to many a command procedure.  J Just kind of dreaming, any thought's on this?  Or have I come to the final command procedure IAMNUTS.COM ?        J*o*h*n B*r*a*n*d*o*n  VMS Systems Administrator * firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 16:33:11 -0600 ( From: brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon)? Subject: Re: ENDOFJOB.COM similiar to SYLOGIN.COM and LOGIN.COM 1 Message-ID: <03111116331161@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>   5 I found a mehtod in hp OpenVMS systems ask the wizard   . http://h71000.www7.hp.com/wizard/wiz_6315.html    L And according to this "There is no central logout script mechanism available within OpenVMS."  K However it does offer three methods to overcome this... will look at them.       J*o*h*n B*r*a*n*d*o*n  VMS Systems Administrator * firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 17:07:14 -0500 ( From: Wayne Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com>? Subject: Re: ENDOFJOB.COM similiar to SYLOGIN.COM and LOGIN.COM / Message-ID: <00A28BFE.B7E0457C.5@tachysoft.com>   ) >From: brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon)  >X-Newsgroups: comp.os.vms< >Subject: ENDOFJOB.COM similiar to SYLOGIN.COM and LOGIN.COM2 >Message-ID: <03111115352530@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>& >Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 15:35:25 -0600 > N >When a batch process (or any process for that matter) is created the loginoutP >(I assume) executes SYLOGIN.COM and (typically) LOGIN.COM prior to the submited >command procedure is executed.  > O >Working on a couple of projects I came to the conclusion that it would be cool E >to have an ENDOFJOB.COM executed at the end of the batch job - as is 8 >SYLOGIN.COM executed at the beginning of the batch job. > H >A number of ways to acomplish this come to mind - however this requires% >changes to many a command procedure.  > K >Just kind of dreaming, any thought's on this?  Or have I come to the final   >command procedure IAMNUTS.COM ? >   G Better not *depend* on the procedure, unless you disable delete/entry,  ? stop/id, and the delete-process and force-exit system services.   M Even exit handlers, which work only with images, don't execute if the process . is deleted with stop/id or the system service.  M AFAIK, the *only* exit mechanism that survives all forms of image and process O rundown is that associated with a change-mode-to-kernel/exec dispatcher.  Kinda  hard to do *that* from dcl.    Wayne O =============================================================================== N Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738   wayne@tachysoft.com; http://www.tachysoft.com/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html    O =============================================================================== H Randolph Duke (in Trading Places): "Mother always said you were greedy."1    Mortimer Duke: "She meant it as a compliment!"    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 18:04:59 -0600 ( From: brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon)? Subject: Re: ENDOFJOB.COM similiar to SYLOGIN.COM and LOGIN.COM 1 Message-ID: <03111118045960@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>   ' Here is what I have done and why I ask.    Step # 1 (completed)  M In SYLOGIN an application is executed to log pertinent information of a batch E job (PID, entry #, log-spec, file-spec, start date/time, etc.).  This D information is kept in an ISAM file - keyed off the start date/time.  A This currently is in DCL but planning to write in FORTRAN (or C).      Step  # 2 (working on)  M In OpenVMS Utility Routines Manual Chapter 14 LOGINOUT (LGI) Routines you can O define the logical LGI$LOGINOUT_CALLOUTS (/SYS/EXE) to call a single or list of 9 end-of-job images.  (also need to set a SYSGEN parameter)   
 Refer to :N http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/731FINAL/4493/4493pro_038.html#4493_lginout_chap  I By using this method I can update the record created in Step # 1 with the 6 completion time and (hopefully) the completion status.    I > Better not *depend* on the procedure, unless you disable delete/entry,  A > stop/id, and the delete-process and force-exit system services. O > Even exit handlers, which work only with images, don't execute if the process 0 > is deleted with stop/id or the system service.  M The plan is NOT to depend on this, however it will allow me to track my batch L jobs.  Granted STOP/ID and DELETE/ENTRY will defeat this purpose however howO many times does one delete your batch jobs?  Then there is the ocassional CRASH L and "oops I should not have pushed that button" - that was at least 330 daysB ago.  I would believe that this is the exception and not the rule.  P Even if this does happen I still have an outstanding data record (from Step # 1)0 that can be periodically detected and addressed.    O > AFAIK, the *only* exit mechanism that survives all forms of image and process K > rundown is that associated with a change-mode-to-kernel/exec dispatcher.  # > Kinda hard to do *that* from dcl.    More than I care to address.    7 > The last one, I think.  <-- in regards to IAMNUTS.COM   M Norm, NOPE! - I thought I was but I am on a roll here, will refrain from that  one till a later date...  H > some catastophic unforseen event.  Thus has it been determined in many2 > brainstorming forums that this is a non-starter.  E There will always be "unforseen" events in my future - what is new?!?    Thanks for the input...!     J*o*h*n B*r*a*n*d*o*n  VMS Systems Administrator * firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 22:21:08 +0000 - From: John Laird <nospam@laird-towers.org.uk> ? Subject: Re: ENDOFJOB.COM similiar to SYLOGIN.COM and LOGIN.COM 8 Message-ID: <gvn2rv0dgstnq5i0emj6d8582e0gl92mjs@4ax.com>  F On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 15:35:25 -0600, brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon) wrote:  N >When a batch process (or any process for that matter) is created the loginoutP >(I assume) executes SYLOGIN.COM and (typically) LOGIN.COM prior to the submited >command procedure is executed.  > O >Working on a couple of projects I came to the conclusion that it would be cool E >to have an ENDOFJOB.COM executed at the end of the batch job - as is 8 >SYLOGIN.COM executed at the beginning of the batch job. > H >A number of ways to acomplish this come to mind - however this requires% >changes to many a command procedure.  > K >Just kind of dreaming, any thought's on this?  Or have I come to the final   >command procedure IAMNUTS.COM ?    From the System Manglers Manual:  K "The system does not provide for automatic execution of a command procedure  at logout time."  K You can redefine LOGOUT, but as the manual goes on to say there is a myriad J of ways of not getting that far (and most folks I suspect simply don't putA $LOGOUT in their batch files anyway, for fairly obvious reasons).    --  ; I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder.     Mail john rather than nospam...    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Nov 2003 13:21:29 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: Erasing a disk 3 Message-ID: <jDYbf3nJhQg1@eisner.encompasserve.org>    In article <EEC575D39D864C4BBAE8CD309982B0F207152A@sphnt33.sph.uth.tmc.edu>, "Grealy, Patrick" <PGrealy@sph.uth.tmc.edu> writes: > Hi, E > We are preparing to surplus some old disks, some of which contain = H > sensitive data. Are there any good VMS utilities that will erase all = > data on a disk?   /    initialize/erase is very good and very fast.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 14:19:34 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> Subject: Re: Erasing a disk ) Message-ID: <3FB13645.962B12AC@istop.com>   T I believe that ANA/MEDIA also has destructive mode where it overwrites all the data.  N But as I recall, INIT/ERASE is the one that needs to be done at least once. AsI I recall, there is an example in SYS$EXAMPLES of writing your own pattern K generator (I think it is part of the user written system services example).    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Nov 2003 14:25:38 -06004 From: kuhrt@nospammy.encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt) Subject: Re: Erasing a disk 3 Message-ID: <iCN2nQnEr3tG@eisner.encompasserve.org>   f In article <3FB10ECC.F055182@blueyonder.co.uk>, Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk> writes: >  >  > Nic Clews wrote: >>   >> "Grealy, Patrick" wrote:  >> > >> > We are preparing to surplus some old disks, some of which contain sensitive data. Are >there any good VMS utilities that will erase all data on a disk? >>   >> Define sensitive. >>  K >> Rumour has it that there's a military project which managed to read data  >> after 100 write passes. >>  I >> Hoff has a great tale about "erasing data from disks" which comes from 3 >> the end of a gun (the business end)... Cue Hoff.  > B > OTOH, if the sort of people with those resources want your data,: > they probably have it already and don't need to scrounge8 > around on your surplus several times erased disks :-)  > F > But if you are really worried, physically destroy the disk platters.  A Install a M$ OS on them.  From what I've experienced, M$ products 1 can pretty much destroy anything they touch.  ;^)    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 21:42:54 GMT 3 From: Robert Klute <robert_klute_removethis@hp.com>  Subject: Re: Erasing a disk 8 Message-ID: <dtk2rv8a3k2oi1mr8bcfk91bs3lgli7c07@4ax.com>  ) On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 17:51:21 +0000 (UTC), 8 moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) wrote:  4 >"Grealy, Patrick" <PGrealy@sph.uth.tmc.edu> writes: >  >>Hi, E >>We are preparing to surplus some old disks, some of which contain = H >>sensitive data. Are there any good VMS utilities that will erase all = >>data on a disk?  > B >What do you mean by 'sensitive'?  If it's some sort of government> >classified data, there are strict rules depending on level of? >classification.  For some overwriting the drive N times is OK, ) >for others they will insist on thermite.   E That's the problem with bureaucracy ... It has a hard time keeping up 3 with technology, or believing what can not be seen.   ' Here is a decent web page on the topic:   l http://users.pandora.be/aldatillian/VARIOUS/Data%20Removal%20and%20Erasure%20from%20Hard%20Disk%20Drives.htm     Robert Klute Cupertino Solution Center  Hewlett-Packard Company  ----- 6 The opinions are those of the poster, not the company.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 17:14:48 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> Subject: Re: Erasing a disk ) Message-ID: <3FB15F4B.5F5B2131@istop.com>   N After one has used whatever techniques to erase a drive, if one wanted to dumpM contents of the drive to verify that erasure was actually done, what would be  the suggested command ?   N I realise that dump can be used, but are there strategic blocks one would wantF to see , or would looking at first 10, last 10 and middle 10 blocks be considered sufficient ?   L When a drive has been zapped, can dump be used with just the device name, orH must it somehow be mounted ? If it must be mounted, will /FOREIGN do theL trick, or would that fail too since the drive would be totally devoir of any
 information ?    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 00:38:34 GMT 2 From: "Glen Herrmannsfeldt" <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> Subject: Re: Erasing a disk / Message-ID: <eifsb.124575$mZ5.842112@attbi_s54>   7 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message # news:3FB15F4B.5F5B2131@istop.com... K > After one has used whatever techniques to erase a drive, if one wanted to  dumpL > contents of the drive to verify that erasure was actually done, what would be > the suggested command ?   D In some cases, people will disassemble a drive and read the magnetic$ patterns off the disk in other ways.  H Head alignment can change with time or temperature, so that unerase dataG still exists along the edge of the overwritten track.   There are (very L expensive) machines that can read such data off the disk after it is removed from the drive.   F If your data could be worth millions of dollars, or maybe even tens of9 thousands in the wrong hands, you might worry about that.    -- glen    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 22:34:55 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> 4 Subject: Re: How long until IT employment vanishes ?G Message-ID: <judsb.27800$HoK.2626@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>    And another..........   1       Bear Stearns Signs Up For Overseas Services %       Thomas Claburn, InformationWeek        November 11, 2003   @       Bear, Stearns & Co. last week joined the growing number ofJ financial-services companies that are moving technology work offshore. TheE company named India-based Satyam Computer Services Ltd. as one of its  preferred IT-services vendors.I       Satyam will handle application development and maintenance for both D mission-critical and legacy systems. The companies haven't disclosedH specifics. Satyam president Ram Mynampati says the deal involves work onK strategic initiatives and that Bear Stearns "believes we can be a strategic I partner in exploring ways and means of contributing to the organization's  business drivers."  L       Other companies in the financial sector that are sending work offshoreC include Bank of America, Lehman Brothers, and Nationwide Financial. K Forrester Research analyst Stephanie Moore predicts that growing acceptance L of overseas services providers will prompt others in the industry to follow.F The financial sector will be one of the first to fully embrace sendingK business processes offshore, she says. "Already, banks are outsourcing such C things as mortgage processing and credit-card collections to Indian E business-process outsourcing firms. And top-tier investment banks and F brokerages are beginning to outsource their equity research to India."  J       India-based Satyam will handle IT development and maintenance.Yet ITF vendors with ties to the financial industry who stand to lose from theL offshore trend, such as Sun Microsystems, are working to make their productsG easier and less expensive for businesses to deploy in-house, says Roger F Chen, associate professor at the University of San Francisco School ofJ Business and Management. He's convinced those efforts will temper interestL in offshore outsourcing. Says Chen, "As technology becomes more standardizedI and less complex, then we will see the reverse of this [offshore] trend."   <       Originally appeared in InformationWeek, Nov. 10, 2003.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 02:29:57 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")4 Subject: Re: How long until IT employment vanishes ?6 Message-ID: <00A28C0A.45DF560A@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  V In article <3FAEE506.BC4FA90B@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes: >Dan O'Reilly wrote:H >> Look, I've heard all this before.  In the late '70's, code generatorsK >> were going to replace programmers.  We were all going to be out of a job  >> in a matter of 4 or 5 years.  >  > L >The minute SAP and Microsoft start to get some competition that offers muchO >lower priced products, you can bet that they will start to move programmers to % >India so they can lower their costs.   M I presume you mean, "move programming operations to India", since relocation  J from Berlin or Bellevue is expensive.  And Microsoft already has an Indian# development operation in Bangalore.    -- Alan  --  O =============================================================================== 0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056 M  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025 O ===============================================================================    ------------------------------   Date: 11 Nov 2003 20:04:51 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: IA64 TPC results : Message-ID: <borfd3$1hsbiv$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>  / In article <vr2bmdi0a3rl3d@corp.supernews.com>, , 	"rob kas" <robnospam@paychoice.com> writes: > ' >         Does it really matter anymore E >         For better or Worse we are sailing on the good ship Itanic.  >   > It matters if all of First Class jumps ship to seek passage on; the HMS Sparky or USS PowerBox leaving only those locked in 	 steerage.    bill (not that bill, the other one.)    --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:47:51 -0500 ) From: "rob kas" <robnospam@paychoice.com>  Subject: Re: IA64 TPC results / Message-ID: <vr2bmdi0a3rl3d@corp.supernews.com>    > E > Unfortunately for Itanic, the point in question concerned the TPC-C K > performance of 64-processor systems, not 4-processor systems.  While it's K > conceivable that some other Itanic platform (possibly Altix?) could scale G > TPC-C performance up fairly linearly from the 4-processor level given I > scalable database software, and quite likely that Marvel could scale up E > Alpha performance similarly under the same circumstances, Superdome  clearly J > can't - so at 64 processors, even with its 1998-design core technology aE > Marvel system might well give the brand new Superdome a pretty good ! > challenge (if HP would let it).  >  > - bill > %         Does it really matter anymore C         For better or Worse we are sailing on the good ship Itanic.   +                                         Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 17:00:32 -0500 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Re: IA64 TPC results 2 Message-ID: <D_ydnT1mXNCdwSyiRVn-sQ@metrocast.net>  4 "rob kas" <robnospam@paychoice.com> wrote in message) news:vr2bmdi0a3rl3d@corp.supernews.com...  >  > > G > > Unfortunately for Itanic, the point in question concerned the TPC-C H > > performance of 64-processor systems, not 4-processor systems.  While it'sG > > conceivable that some other Itanic platform (possibly Altix?) could  scale I > > TPC-C performance up fairly linearly from the 4-processor level given K > > scalable database software, and quite likely that Marvel could scale up G > > Alpha performance similarly under the same circumstances, Superdome 	 > clearly L > > can't - so at 64 processors, even with its 1998-design core technology aG > > Marvel system might well give the brand new Superdome a pretty good # > > challenge (if HP would let it).  > > 
 > > - bill > > ' >         Does it really matter anymore E >         For better or Worse we are sailing on the good ship Itanic.   J Well, *you* may have made that decision, but others have not.  If they canK get the performance they need from Marvel for the next few years, then that J staves off any need to decide whether to commit to Itanic or to some otherD worthy platform like POWERx (and for that matter Sun may be offeringL competitive hardware a few years from now:  they're certainly exploring some promising avenues).   D Of course, by cancelling EV79 HP is 'encouraging' people to considerK migration sooner than they had previously been promised would be necessary. K I'm sure they'll take that into account in deciding whether to believe HP's . 'commitments' to other products (such as VMS).   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 19:56:05 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> Subject: Re: IA64 TPC results ) Message-ID: <3FB1850E.772CBDAD@istop.com>    Bill Todd wrote:M > I'm sure they'll take that into account in deciding whether to believe HP's 0 > 'commitments' to other products (such as VMS).  G In the end though, when the time comes for a site to require additional J capacity, they'll look at what is available NOW. If they are already AlphaM based and need an increase in capacity, they'll buy another alpha, even if it  isn't the fastest chip anymore.   G And in the end, if a customer needs some new unix computing capability, K they'll look at bids from various vendors, and if HP can provide a superior 4 bid, they'll buy the thing even if it is IA64 based.  L People will buy products from any vendor when it isn't a strategic decision.G And HP, with its broken commitments, has lost the "respected enterprise L vendor" label and has gained "just another commodity vendor to whom you have no loyalty".  L The problem with those "commodity" vendors (think about no-name products) isM that when the time comes to make long terms strategic platform decisions, you & don't choose a vendor you can't trust.   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Nov 2003 22:52:21 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)  Subject: Re: IA64 TPC results 3 Message-ID: <v$qZzaILi6V1@eisner.encompasserve.org>   e In article <borfd3$1hsbiv$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: 1 > In article <vr2bmdi0a3rl3d@corp.supernews.com>, . > 	"rob kas" <robnospam@paychoice.com> writes: >>  ( >>         Does it really matter anymoreF >>         For better or Worse we are sailing on the good ship Itanic. >>   > @ > It matters if all of First Class jumps ship to seek passage on= > the HMS Sparky or USS PowerBox leaving only those locked in  > steerage.  >  > bill! > (not that bill, the other one.)  >     B 	Kanter's IDF report was posted recently to realworldtech.com.  In 	it he states this:   ? http://www.realworldtech.com/page.cfm?ArticleID=RWT111003013714   L "However, I also spoke with two major OEMs that design their own proprietaryO IA64 chipsets and systems. Both indicated that they were unable to keep up with G the demand for Itanium2 based systems, particularly among those running G commercial server workloads. Another European OEM stated that they were G beginning the conversion of their older mainframe clients to IA64 based N systems, with their first trial already underway. While this may seem slow, itN is important to remember that the customer base for commercial IA64 systems isI incredibly conservative and unlikely to make any changes without a lot of M feedback from their IHV and ISV's. All together, this seems to be a good sign N for the Itanium family; effectively, 2003 will be the first year that IA64 hasL really begun to sell outside of HPC, which is an important milestone for any new architecture."     				Rob #                                        ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 00:20:24 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> Subject: Re: IA64 TPC results ) Message-ID: <3FB1C2F0.59ABC2E8@istop.com>    Rob Young wrote:N > "However, I also spoke with two major OEMs that design their own proprietary > IA64 chipsets and systems.  L Doesn't that go against Carly's statements of IA64 being "industry standard" "commodity" "open" etc ?  6 > Both indicated that they were unable to keep up withI > the demand for Itanium2 based systems, particularly among those running  > commercial server workloads.  D Which OSes have sufficient available software on IA64 for commercial applications ?  M I can understand some hi tech lab that writes its onw software, being able to G retarget their software to IA64 server farm, but is there really enough D commercial software available to make those systems viable already ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 21:41:53 -0800 / From: Greg Cagle <news@removethisgregcagle.com>  Subject: Re: IA64 TPC results / Message-ID: <vr3i1258qm4t0d@corp.supernews.com>    JF Mezei wrote:    > Rob Young wrote: > N >>"However, I also spoke with two major OEMs that design their own proprietary >>IA64 chipsets and systems. >  > N > Doesn't that go against Carly's statements of IA64 being "industry standard" > "commodity" "open" etc ?  B Carly is talking about the CPU - you know, the thing that actually= runs code 8^). Chipsets and systems are the surrounding stuff A needed to build a complete computer. Do you really not know that?    - Greg --  
 Greg Cagle gregc at gregcagle dot com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 14:15:18 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>, Subject: Re: Image needs to know where it is) Message-ID: <3FB13545.42A484E8@istop.com>    Bunki wrote: > M > Should I assume you are "creating" the image through a programming language N > or are you hoping to supply command line parameters to the invocation of the > image? > K > If the former is true, then the other suggestions already posted are your  > best bet.   H That is correct. My goal is to have an image  stored wherever the systemE manager decided to install it, and have the image be able to find its L companion files that are stored right next to it (without the system managerN having to create a systemwide logical for it). For self contained utilities, IO much prefer this over an application that spreads its files all over the place.   > The $GETJPI solution offered by the others (thanks !) is fine.   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Nov 2003 13:24:47 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)-, Subject: Re: Image needs to know where it is3 Message-ID: <GsuDqJO9fasM@eisner.encompasserve.org>   _ In article <3fb10aea$0$25231$4c5eba9e@news.getnet.net>, "Bunki" <kmstoddard@getnet.net> writes: M > Should I assume you are "creating" the image through a programming languageNN > or are you hoping to supply command line parameters to the invocation of the > image? > K > If the former is true, then the other suggestions already posted are your M > best bet.  If the latter is true, you may have to simply write a DCL scriptu > to either,  8    If programming in C, argv[0] will have the full path.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 00:00:28 GMT & From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net>, Subject: Re: Image needs to know where it is8 Message-ID: <ott2rv80bg0qaq6n32q6lnml58q73i3a9e@4ax.com>  H On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 14:15:18 -0500, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote:     > I >That is correct. My goal is to have an image  stored wherever the systemtF >manager decided to install it, and have the image be able to find itsM >companion files that are stored right next to it (without the system managereO >having to create a systemwide logical for it). For self contained utilities, IeP >much prefer this over an application that spreads its files all over the place. >-? >The $GETJPI solution offered by the others (thanks !) is fine.i  @ But, possibly, that may not be the best way to do things either.  H Every application should have at least one system-level logical assigned# for it.  This would be of the form s   	<appname>_dir  A which should be assigned to "disk:[directory]" of the applicationd  ( Another one that may be useful would be:   	<appname>_roota  : which should be a rooted logical assigned to "disk:[dir.]"  I And your application should make use of those logicals (and possibly some 7 others, process level possibly) for access to any other  application-specific files.0  B As a system administrator/manager, this is what I would expect all  well-behaved applications to do.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 19:59:47 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>, Subject: Re: Image needs to know where it is) Message-ID: <3FB185EC.67CC0DB9@istop.com>    jlsue wrote:J > Every application should have at least one system-level logical assigned$ > for it.  This would be of the form >  >         <appname>_dir  > C > which should be assigned to "disk:[directory]" of the application   I For a big application with multiple directories, I would agree. But for aoI simple utility that only needs access to one or two files and which isn'teN widely used, is it really good to force the definition of a systemwide logicalB at system startup just so that this small utility could function ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 21:15:55 -0000a4 From: wspencer@ap.org.nospam.please (Warren Spencer) Subject: Re: Open source DBM's. Message-ID: <vr2kcbqegi066@news.supernews.com>  + javier@KJSL.COM (Javier Henderson) wrote in # <86fzh0ekax.fsf@skylane.kjsl.com>: O  & >hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes: > A >> In article <86ptg541kv.fsf@skylane.kjsl.com>, Javier Hendersone >> <javier@KJSL.COM> writes: iF >> :What, if any, is available in the way of open source SQL DBM's for	 >> :VMS? l >> SE >>   I've ports of two versions of MySQL arriving on OpenVMS FreewaresI >>   V6.0. (The Freeware disks are shipping with the OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-2  >>   release.)   > I >Do you know what versions of MySQL? And, are the Freeware CD's availablei >online? >nF >>   OpenVMS RMS provides non-relational database capabilities, though& >>   you did specifically request SQL. >sF >Indeed. Ideally, there would be a port of Postgres, since that's what8 >we're running right now, but beggers can't be choosers. >t >-javo    H I'm interested in the PostgreSQL question as well.  Ingres (same source K code tree a some point in time long ago) ran (runs?) on OpenVMS.  Any news bD on porting this one?  (I use it on Linux and am very happy with it).   Thanks,a   ws   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Nov 2003 14:46:17 -0800, From: JimStrehlow@data911.com (Jim Strehlow)8 Subject: Re: Oracle Migration Problem when going to ds15= Message-ID: <4b6ec350.0311111446.37ecbdf6@posting.google.com>n  s dieter.rossbach@gmx.de (Dieter  Ro?bach) wrote in message news:<e1d40caf.0311100630.21703599@posting.google.com>...  > System 1: DS10, 512MB Memory > System 2: DS15, 1024MB Memoryt > = > I did a backup/image from all DS10 disks to the DS15 disks.-  D I have installed and migrated several Oracle 8.0.5 and 8.1.7 OpenVMSE databases to different machines.  I normally build from scratch. Why?u* Because the "gotchas", among others?, are:8  - OracleIns creates procedures in your Oracle Root withF nodename$diskName hard-coded into the Oracle procedures at the time ofE creation. Even if you supplied your own application or system logical = for Oracle to use, Oracle decodes down to the node/disk name.h  C  - Similarly, when you build your SYSTEM.DBF and other tablespaces, @ Oracle stores the nodename$diskName into various Oracle internal tables that you can not modify.O  F Thus, when attempting to transfer from one system to another, the only; way I fooled Oracle was to build some system logicals named @ oldNodeName$oldDiskName in order to see if Oracle could open the; database.  I think that worked once; but I learned from theeF experience. I now take the time to build Oracle on the new machine andB use an EXPORT of the old database to IMPORT into the new database.  E There might be Oracle Workbench tools to help you migrate from one todE the other; but using the standard Oracle CD-Rom install (and patches). is the method I use.  3 Jim Strehlow, OpenVMS and Oracle DBA at Data911.como Alameda, CA, USA   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Nov 2003 14:53:21 -0800, From: JimStrehlow@data911.com (Jim Strehlow)6 Subject: status or itrc and OpenVMS Patch Mailing List= Message-ID: <4b6ec350.0311111453.174f316e@posting.google.com>s  F What is the status of the I.T.R.C. and the OpenVMS Patch Mailing List?F I noticed two new patches at ITRC for which I did not receive anything# via the OpenVMS Patch Mailing List.y8 Is the new H.P. policy that we must check for ourselves?F No "Windows Update Notification" equivalent which is what I considered the OpenVMS Patch Mailing List?e  $ JimStrehlow, OpenVMS Systems Manager  < The opinions are my own and do not reflect upon my employer.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 23:40:55 GMT04 From: brad@.gateway.2wire.net (Bradford J. Hamilton): Subject: Re: status or itrc and OpenVMS Patch Mailing List/ Message-ID: <bsesb.127945$ao4.396057@attbi_s51>h  l In article <4b6ec350.0311111453.174f316e@posting.google.com>, JimStrehlow@data911.com (Jim Strehlow) writes:G !What is the status of the I.T.R.C. and the OpenVMS Patch Mailing List?uG !I noticed two new patches at ITRC for which I did not receive anythingw$ !via the OpenVMS Patch Mailing List.  ? The "old" mailing list is dead (moment of silence, please	:-)).a  9 !Is the new H.P. policy that we must check for ourselves?mG !No "Windows Update Notification" equivalent which is what I consideredn  !the OpenVMS Patch Mailing List?  H It is possible to sign up for a notification mechanism; the e-mails comeN once/week, are digests (rather than individual notifications), and are groupedO by O/S (I am subscribed to the "Open VMS Alpha 7.X patch digest", "Open VMS Vaxu0 7.X patch digest", and "Tru64 5.X patch digest")  G Although this is far from ideal, it is - at least - notification.	:-)  nH If you have a support contract, you can sign up for a different kind of 9 notification, based on your contracted machine's "needs".h  @ You must register at the ITRC before you can use this "service".   !snip!  J __________________________________________________________________________A Bradford J. Hamilton                    "All opinions are my own" K bMradAhamiPltSon-at-coMmcAast.nPeSt     "Lose the MAPS, and replace '-at-' e0                                          with @"   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 23:04:24 -0500s* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>! Subject: VAX 6130 relaunched !!!!s) Message-ID: <3FB1B125.DF92CFDD@istop.com>   M For all those who had been convinced that VAX was out of production, the 6130eQ has been relaunched. It is available in 3 variations, the 6130, 6130S and 6130SX.0   Full details at:, http://www.vax.co.uk/pages/products/6130.htm  , For now, these are only available in the UK.   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Nov 2003 12:30:22 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)  Subject: Re: VAX Telemarketers!!= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0311111230.5c6cc553@posting.google.com>o  j bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote in message news:<boqtgg$1h9dbu$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>...A > I just had a phone call from someone who claimed my name was on B > a list they purchased that listed me (as a representative of theB > University) as "a VAX owner".  They then tried to sell me CharonA > VAX (must not have studied any classical literature as at firstS= > I didn't know what he was selling because he mis-pronouncedd= > Charon.  :-).  Makes me wonder who that knows I (that's me c> > personally, the University couldn't care less about VAXen or; > VMS) still have and use VAXen sold my name to some sleazet= > telemarketer.  I can only think of two people/organizationsm; > that are likely to have that information and both of thema= > would have gotten that information through my membership ind% > the Open VMS Hobbyist Program.  :-(n7 > Of course, I apply the same criteria to telemarketers=? > that I apply to SPAM by extending the Boulder Pledge to covert > them as well.8 >  > bill  < that's why you need to get back on RSTS/E or Primos ... then you will never get a call!  :)   ------------------------------   Date: 11 Nov 2003 20:50:46 GMT, From: bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)  Subject: Re: VAX Telemarketers!!: Message-ID: <bori32$1i8nr7$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>  = In article <d7791aa1.0311111230.5c6cc553@posting.google.com>,o+ 	bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:Dl > bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote in message news:<boqtgg$1h9dbu$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>...B >> I just had a phone call from someone who claimed my name was onC >> a list they purchased that listed me (as a representative of thecC >> University) as "a VAX owner".  They then tried to sell me CharonTB >> VAX (must not have studied any classical literature as at first> >> I didn't know what he was selling because he mis-pronounced> >> Charon.  :-).  Makes me wonder who that knows I (that's me ? >> personally, the University couldn't care less about VAXen ore< >> VMS) still have and use VAXen sold my name to some sleaze> >> telemarketer.  I can only think of two people/organizations< >> that are likely to have that information and both of them> >> would have gotten that information through my membership in& >> the Open VMS Hobbyist Program.  :-(8 >> Of course, I apply the same criteria to telemarketers@ >> that I apply to SPAM by extending the Boulder Pledge to cover >> them as well. >> , > > > that's why you need to get back on RSTS/E or Primos ... then  > you will never get a call!  :)  = Got rid of my last Pr1me a bit more than a year ago.  Went tow? someone whose company is still supporting both the Hardware andn> PRIMOS.  One can only hope that VMS is still as well supported) that long after it's owner goes belly-up.s  > As for RSTS, if I ever succeed in convincing Mentec that there@ is value in letting students play with it I will have it running> right next to VMS (if I can convince HP that there is value in letting students play with it.)n   bill   -- lJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 20:48:15 +0100 " From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>  Subject: Re: VAX Telemarketers!!3 Message-ID: <3fb13d12$0$2781$626a54ce@news.free.fr>    I do *not* stand accused!  :-)    D.   Bill Gunshannon wrote:  A > I just had a phone call from someone who claimed my name was on B > a list they purchased that listed me (as a representative of theB > University) as "a VAX owner".  They then tried to sell me CharonA > VAX (must not have studied any classical literature as at first = > I didn't know what he was selling because he mis-pronounceds= > Charon.  :-).  Makes me wonder who that knows I (that's me e> > personally, the University couldn't care less about VAXen or; > VMS) still have and use VAXen sold my name to some sleazeO= > telemarketer.  I can only think of two people/organizations0; > that are likely to have that information and both of themo= > would have gotten that information through my membership ino% > the Open VMS Hobbyist Program.  :-(e7 > Of course, I apply the same criteria to telemarketersi? > that I apply to SPAM by extending the Boulder Pledge to coverc > them as well.i >  > bill >  >    -- I:            Read the last VAX/VMS to Itanium Migration NewsC      English: www.didiermorandi.com/vms/vaxvms2itanium_200311en.pdfCC       French: www.didiermorandi.com/vms/vaxvms2itanium_200311fr.pdf   F didier morandi  ~ sarl au capital de 8 000 euros ~  Revendeur agr HPC      Expertise en environnement DIGITAL ~ Formation ~ ProgrammationiF Offshore ~ 5 av. A. Durand 31700 Blagnac France. Tl: 33(0)5 6131 6287D    SIRET 448 694 851 00016 RCS Toulouse http://www.didiermorandi.com   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Nov 2003 12:27:55 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)$ Subject: Re: VMS Spiffy Text Editors< Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0311111227.a15b5ca@posting.google.com>  m "Martin O'Connor" <moconnor@dvfs.com> wrote in message news:<boqo5r$1hkhbo$1@ID-118202.news.uni-berlin.de>... = > "Jack Trachtman" <Jack.Trachtman@vmmc.org> wrote in message 8 > news:69d784c4.0311101517.7fc714a@posting.google.com...> > : Can anyone point me to any company making a word-processorA > : similar to the old WordPerfect that works under VMS?  Thanks.i >  > WordPerfect also runs on VMS >  > MartyD  8 WORD11 is a great word processor, and it works in tandem with Goldfax ...   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 14:32:53 -0700d+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> $ Subject: Re: VMS Spiffy Text Editors' Message-ID: <3FB15585.9050705@MMaz.com>    Bob Ceculski wrote:   n >"Martin O'Connor" <moconnor@dvfs.com> wrote in message news:<boqo5r$1hkhbo$1@ID-118202.news.uni-berlin.de>... >  i >f= >>"Jack Trachtman" <Jack.Trachtman@vmmc.org> wrote in message-8 >>news:69d784c4.0311101517.7fc714a@posting.google.com...> >>: Can anyone point me to any company making a word-processorA >>: similar to the old WordPerfect that works under VMS?  Thanks.  >> >>WordPerfect also runs on VMS >> >>MartyS >>     >> >w9 >WORD11 is a great word processor, and it works in tandemt >with Goldfax ...t >s >  e >x? Mass-11 was good for character-cell and its efforts for WYSIWYG43 support...  As far as I know, MEC had a meltdown...(   Barryr   -- j  > Barry Treahy, Jr                       E-mail: Treahy@MMaz.com> Midwest Microwave                          Phone: 480/314-1320> Vice President & CIO                         FAX: 480/661-7028   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.627 ************************plus some old disks, some of which contain sensitive data. Are >there any good VMS utilities that will erase all data on a disk? >>   >> Define sensitive. >>  K >> Rumour has it that there's a military project which managed to read data  >> after 100 write passes. >>  I >> Hoff has a great tale about "erasing data from disks" which comes from 3 >> the end of a gun (the business end)... Cue Hoff.  > B > OTOH, if the sort of people with those resources want your d