1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 12 Nov 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 628       Contents:9 Announcing Availability Manager V2.3-1 and DECamds V7.3-2  Can Pagefile be too big?6 Re: ENDOFJOB.COM similiar to SYLOGIN.COM and LOGIN.COM6 Re: ENDOFJOB.COM similiar to SYLOGIN.COM and LOGIN.COM Re: Erasing a disk Re: Erasing a disk Re: Erasing a disk Re: Erasing a disk Re: Erasing a disk Re: Erasing a disk Re: Erasing a disk, Re: Fonts for printing from a decwindows app, Re: Fonts for printing from a decwindows app+ Re: How long until IT employment vanishes ?  Re: IA64 TPC results Re: IA64 TPC results Re: IA64 TPC results Re: IA64 TPC results Re: IA64 TPC results Re: IA64 TPC results Re: IA64 TPC results Re: IA64 TPC results Re: IA64 TPC results Re: IA64 TPC results# Re: Image needs to know where it is # Re: Image needs to know where it is # Re: Image needs to know where it is # Re: Image needs to know where it is # Re: Image needs to know where it is 0 Re: London to be disrupted next week by JF Mezei0 Re: London to be disrupted next week by JF Mezei Re: OpenVMS and HP Nimbus  Re: OpenVMS and HP Nimbus  Re: OpenVMS and HP Nimbus  Oracle RDB and $status! Re: OT: an example of a modern OS 1 Re: status or itrc and OpenVMS Patch Mailing List 1 Re: status or itrc and OpenVMS Patch Mailing List + Re: SYPAGSWPFILES still replace on upgrade?  Re: VAX 6130 relaunched !!!! Re: VAX 6130 relaunched !!!! Re: VAX 6130 relaunched !!!! Re: VAX 6130 relaunched !!!! VMS Perl Question re LF   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:40:07 GMT 0 From: "Barry Kierstein" <Barry.Kierstein@HP.Com>B Subject: Announcing Availability Manager V2.3-1 and DECamds V7.3-22 Message-ID: <HSpsb.8855$FV5.1538@news.cpqcorp.net>  C The Availability Manager team is pleased to announce the release of G Availability Manager V2.3-1 and DECamds V7.3-2.  Both of these versions 7 will support data collection on OpenVMS V6.2 to V7.3-2.   J In addition, the Availability Manager has a few enhancements and bugfixes:  C o Sorting by columns added to Node Summary and Single Disk displays H o A few changes to synchronize AM cluster display with the SCACP utility   on OpenVMS V7.3-2 A o Correction of memory calculations needed to run AM.  The memory B   calculations were too low for monitoring moderately-sized sites.A o A node-specific customization file AMDS$LOGICALS_<nodename>.COM C   will now be executed if found by the AMDS$STARTUP.COM file.  This ?   allows for node-specific customizations in a cluster setting. A o Support for Dynamic Volume Expansion in OpenVMS V7.3-2.  In the E   disk tab, two new fields are displayed:  Volume Size & Volume Limit   C Both products are available on the web off of the OpenVMS homepage.    Barry Kierstein  Availability Manager team    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 18:45:43 GMT ) From: Alfred Falk <falk@arc.REMOVE.ab.ca> ! Subject: Can Pagefile be too big? 9 Message-ID: <Xns943177A5EFCA9falkarcabca@198.161.157.145>   I Some recent problems that we had were mis-diagnosed as insufficient page  I file size, so now I have a pagefile of more than 7 GB.  1.5 GB is likely  G large enough.  Is there a significant cost to having the larger file?   5 That is, would it be worthwhile to shrink it again?     H (I realize the question is being asked in a very general way.  I'm look % for a general way to answer it, too.)    --  @ ----------------------------------------------------------------A   A L B E R T A         Alfred Falk               falk@arc.ab.ca  @ R E S E A R C H         Information Systems Dept   (780)450-5185+   C O U N C I L         250 Karl Clark Road 1                         Edmonton, Alberta, Canada  http://www.arc.ab.ca/   T6N 1E4   http://www.arc.ab.ca/staff/falk/   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 07:49:42 GMT - From: Mike Rechtman <michael.rechtman@hp.com> ? Subject: Re: ENDOFJOB.COM similiar to SYLOGIN.COM and LOGIN.COM % Message-ID: <3FB2014E.75C202A@hp.com>    John Brandon wrote:  > ) > Here is what I have done and why I ask.  >  > Step # 1 (completed) > O > In SYLOGIN an application is executed to log pertinent information of a batch G > job (PID, entry #, log-spec, file-spec, start date/time, etc.).  This F > information is kept in an ISAM file - keyed off the start date/time. > C > This currently is in DCL but planning to write in FORTRAN (or C).  >  > Step  # 2 (working on) > O > In OpenVMS Utility Routines Manual Chapter 14 LOGINOUT (LGI) Routines you can Q > define the logical LGI$LOGINOUT_CALLOUTS (/SYS/EXE) to call a single or list of ; > end-of-job images.  (also need to set a SYSGEN parameter)  >  > Refer to :P > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/731FINAL/4493/4493pro_038.html#4493_lginout_chap > K > By using this method I can update the record created in Step # 1 with the 8 > completion time and (hopefully) the completion status. > J > > Better not *depend* on the procedure, unless you disable delete/entry,C > > stop/id, and the delete-process and force-exit system services. Q > > Even exit handlers, which work only with images, don't execute if the process 2 > > is deleted with stop/id or the system service. > O > The plan is NOT to depend on this, however it will allow me to track my batch N > jobs.  Granted STOP/ID and DELETE/ENTRY will defeat this purpose however howQ > many times does one delete your batch jobs?  Then there is the ocassional CRASH N > and "oops I should not have pushed that button" - that was at least 330 daysD > ago.  I would believe that this is the exception and not the rule. > R > Even if this does happen I still have an outstanding data record (from Step # 1)2 > that can be periodically detected and addressed. > Q > > AFAIK, the *only* exit mechanism that survives all forms of image and process L > > rundown is that associated with a change-mode-to-kernel/exec dispatcher.% > > Kinda hard to do *that* from dcl.  >  > More than I care to address. > 9 > > The last one, I think.  <-- in regards to IAMNUTS.COM  > O > Norm, NOPE! - I thought I was but I am on a roll here, will refrain from that  > one till a later date... > J > > some catastophic unforseen event.  Thus has it been determined in many4 > > brainstorming forums that this is a non-starter. > G > There will always be "unforseen" events in my future - what is new?!?  >  > Thanks for the input...! >  > J*o*h*n B*r*a*n*d*o*n  > VMS Systems Administrator , > firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com   $ ACCOUNT/PROCESS=BATCH  ??    --  E --------------------------------------------------------------------- E Usual disclaimer: All opinions are mine alone, perhaps not even that. ? Mike Rechtman                            *rechtman@tzora.co.il* F Kibbutz Tzor'a.                          Voice (home): 972-2-9908337  B   "20% of a job takes 80% of the time, the rest takes another 80%"E ---------------------------------------------------------------------  -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----  Version: 3.1: GCM/CS d(-)pu s:+>:- a++ C++ U-- L-- W++ N++ K? w--- V+++$6 PS+ PE-- t 5? X- tv-- b+ DI+ D-- G e++ h--- r+++ y+++@ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 02:25:22 -0600 ( From: brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon)? Subject: Re: ENDOFJOB.COM similiar to SYLOGIN.COM and LOGIN.COM 1 Message-ID: <03111202252231@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>    Mike Rechtman writes:  > $ ACCOUNT/PROCESS=BATCH  ??   F I would like the update information to be as real-time as possible and1 therefore ACCOUNT would not be the best solution.   ! Start of the job - open a record. # Job completion - update the record.          J*o*h*n B*r*a*n*d*o*n  VMS Systems Administrator * firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 07:39:28 +0000 * From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]> Subject: Re: Erasing a disk ' Message-ID: <boso22$bg9$1@lore.csc.com>    Robert Klute wrote:  > + > On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 17:51:21 +0000 (UTC), : > moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) wrote: > 6 > >"Grealy, Patrick" <PGrealy@sph.uth.tmc.edu> writes: > >  > >>Hi, G > >>We are preparing to surplus some old disks, some of which contain = J > >>sensitive data. Are there any good VMS utilities that will erase all = > >>data on a disk?  > > D > >What do you mean by 'sensitive'?  If it's some sort of government@ > >classified data, there are strict rules depending on level ofA > >classification.  For some overwriting the drive N times is OK, + > >for others they will insist on thermite.  > G > That's the problem with bureaucracy ... It has a hard time keeping up 5 > with technology, or believing what can not be seen.  > ) > Here is a decent web page on the topic:  > n > http://users.pandora.be/aldatillian/VARIOUS/Data%20Removal%20and%20Erasure%20from%20Hard%20Disk%20Drives.htm   (URL wrapped now)   H That is a good link. However, there's now insistence that we even followD the destruction procedures with DRAM's used in certain environments.G This practice I'm more sceptical than recovering data from disassembled H disk drives, however, for whatever we're told, there must be some reasonF or other that it's been stated. I'm paid to follow the rules I'm givenH not to question or work on my opinion, I reserve that for the newsgroup!  E Fact can be stranger than fiction, and there is no guarantee you know 6 everything, and I'd be the first to admit that myself.   --  ? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 08:16:45 GMT - From: Mike Rechtman <michael.rechtman@hp.com>  Subject: Re: Erasing a disk & Message-ID: <3FB207A4.7C5290FE@hp.com>   Nic Clews wrote: >  > Robert Klute wrote:  > > - > > On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 17:51:21 +0000 (UTC), < > > moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) wrote: > > 8 > > >"Grealy, Patrick" <PGrealy@sph.uth.tmc.edu> writes: > > > 	 > > >>Hi, I > > >>We are preparing to surplus some old disks, some of which contain = L > > >>sensitive data. Are there any good VMS utilities that will erase all = > > >>data on a disk?  > > > F > > >What do you mean by 'sensitive'?  If it's some sort of governmentB > > >classified data, there are strict rules depending on level ofC > > >classification.  For some overwriting the drive N times is OK, - > > >for others they will insist on thermite.  > > I > > That's the problem with bureaucracy ... It has a hard time keeping up 7 > > with technology, or believing what can not be seen.  > > + > > Here is a decent web page on the topic:  > > p > > http://users.pandora.be/aldatillian/VARIOUS/Data%20Removal%20and%20Erasure%20from%20Hard%20Disk%20Drives.htm >  > (URL wrapped now)  > J > That is a good link. However, there's now insistence that we even followF > the destruction procedures with DRAM's used in certain environments.I > This practice I'm more sceptical than recovering data from disassembled J > disk drives, however, for whatever we're told, there must be some reasonH > or other that it's been stated. I'm paid to follow the rules I'm givenJ > not to question or work on my opinion, I reserve that for the newsgroup! > G > Fact can be stranger than fiction, and there is no guarantee you know 8 > everything, and I'd be the first to admit that myself. >  > --A > Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  > nclews at csc dot com   5 And if the person deciding wants to be 'extra safe' :  1. Remove disk HDA's   2. Place on a concrete surface; 3. Repeatedly drive over HDA's with a large tracked vehicle ) 4. Douse fragments with petrol (gasoline)  5. Set alight. 6. Wait to cool, and trash...      --  E --------------------------------------------------------------------- E Usual disclaimer: All opinions are mine alone, perhaps not even that. ? Mike Rechtman                            *rechtman@tzora.co.il* F Kibbutz Tzor'a.                          Voice (home): 972-2-9908337  B   "20% of a job takes 80% of the time, the rest takes another 80%"E ---------------------------------------------------------------------  -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----  Version: 3.1: GCM/CS d(-)pu s:+>:- a++ C++ U-- L-- W++ N++ K? w--- V+++$6 PS+ PE-- t 5? X- tv-- b+ DI+ D-- G e++ h--- r+++ y+++@ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:57:05 +0100 * From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net> Subject: Re: Erasing a disk 0 Message-ID: <3FB21201.7B4B2158@sture.homeip.net>   Glen Herrmannsfeldt wrote: > 9 > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message % > news:3FB15F4B.5F5B2131@istop.com... M > > After one has used whatever techniques to erase a drive, if one wanted to  > dumpN > > contents of the drive to verify that erasure was actually done, what would > be > > the suggested command ?  > F > In some cases, people will disassemble a drive and read the magnetic& > patterns off the disk in other ways. > J > Head alignment can change with time or temperature, so that unerase dataI > still exists along the edge of the overwritten track.   There are (very N > expensive) machines that can read such data off the disk after it is removed > from the drive.  > H > If your data could be worth millions of dollars, or maybe even tens of; > thousands in the wrong hands, you might worry about that.  >   F There's also the case of automatic bad block replacement. The block isH retired before it becomes completely unreadable, and INIT/ERASE will not% "see" those blocks to overwrite them.    --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 05:25:24 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> Subject: Re: Erasing a disk ) Message-ID: <3FB20A59.6D0448CB@istop.com>    Mike Rechtman wrote:7 > And if the person deciding wants to be 'extra safe' :  > 1. Remove disk HDA's  > 2. Place on a concrete surface= > 3. Repeatedly drive over HDA's with a large tracked vehicle + > 4. Douse fragments with petrol (gasoline)  > 5. Set alight. > 6. Wait to cool, and trash...   J With today's small drives, wouldn't putting the platters 20 seconds in the microwave do the trick ?    J Interesting how people will go to extremes to wipe off hard drives, but on4 erarely hears about safe ways to erase backup tapes.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 05:37:27 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> Subject: Re: Erasing a disk ) Message-ID: <3FB20D2B.A78AFF5F@istop.com>    Paul Sture wrote: H > There's also the case of automatic bad block replacement. The block isJ > retired before it becomes completely unreadable, and INIT/ERASE will not' > "see" those blocks to overwrite them.     K Doesn't ANALIZE/MEDIA have some qualifiers to forget the existing bad block K and rebuilt it from scratch ? Wouldn't that entail that it would write/test  all blocks on drive ?    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:49:08 GMT 3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond)  Subject: Re: Erasing a disk 2 Message-ID: <oTqsb.8859$J56.1121@news.cpqcorp.net>  D For extreme situations, probably the best way to ensure that data isF never again read from magnetic media is to subject the media to a highI enough temperature so that it burns or melts.  This ensures both physical B destruction and destruction of any magnetic patterns on the media.  H I also suggest another approach:  If the data on the media are vaulable,K then perhaps the media should be retained in secure storage permanently or  $ until the value of the data expires. --  J       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Nov 2003 08:08:39 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: Erasing a disk 3 Message-ID: <6RUDtYcD5EXK@eisner.encompasserve.org>   V In article <3FB20D2B.A78AFF5F@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes: > M > Doesn't ANALIZE/MEDIA have some qualifiers to forget the existing bad block M > and rebuilt it from scratch ? Wouldn't that entail that it would write/test  > all blocks on drive ?   H   ANALIZE/MEDIA is a cover for the old bad block utility.  It assumes itG   has access to every block on the disk.  It's meant to work with disks C   that let software dealwith bad blocks.  The ability to forget the F   existing list of bad blocks somply means it will retest them instead   of skipping them.   ?   Most modern disks simply do not let software see bad blocks.  "   ANALIZE/MEDIA can't change that.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 09:54:24 +0100 7 From: Robert Trawinski <robert.trawinski@softax.com.pl> 5 Subject: Re: Fonts for printing from a decwindows app / Message-ID: <bossg4$cni$1@bozon2.softax.com.pl>    JF Mezei wrote: L > In an X application, there is a routine that supplies the application with > available X fonts. > I > However, if one wants to generate postscript output for printing or PDF J > generation how can one find out which postscript fonts are available for+ > inclusion into the generated postscript ?  > P > Is there an official method/API to obtain that list, or must one manually scanN > the contents of the [sysfont] directory structure for *.XDPS$OUTLINE files ? > M > Also, since display postscript has been desupported by Compaq/HP, are those N > font files gone from VMS with no postscript fonts left on the system disk ?  > N > Also, is there an easy way to generate postcript fonts from the bitmap fontsK > that comes with DECwindows ? (I realise that the postscript font would be " > bitmapped instead of outline). ? >  > N > What VMS needs is an easy API to get list of printers, and for each printer,M > the printer type as well as access to PPD files which contain the printer's & > pedigree (including built-in fonts).  E New version of DECwindows (1.3) support Xprint extension. I've never  C used in my work this extension but maybe it is solution for you. I  @ suppose that Xprint software can use all fonts known to Xserver.  G There is another reason to use Xprint. When you display application on  I remote display (for example PC Xserver) you can print on localy attached  I (Xserver site) printer. Many Xservers support now Xprint extension. Look  : at http://www.x.org/ to get more information about Xprint.   Robert   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 05:28:33 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>5 Subject: Re: Fonts for printing from a decwindows app ) Message-ID: <3FB20B15.BC5F7140@istop.com>    Robert Trawinski wrote: F > New version of DECwindows (1.3) support Xprint extension. I've neverD > used in my work this extension but maybe it is solution for you. IB > suppose that Xprint software can use all fonts known to Xserver.  N Can Xprint be added to 1.2 ? (that is where VMS is stuck because "they" aren't6 allowed to upgrade VAX-VMS to match that of Alpha VMS.  N If one want to write VMS software, it must abide by lowest common denominator.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:44:14 +0100 * From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>4 Subject: Re: How long until IT employment vanishes ?/ Message-ID: <3FB20EFE.14F963B@sture.homeip.net>   
 leslie wrote:  > - > JF Mezei (jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com) wrote:  > : J > : The minute SAP and Microsoft start to get some competition that offersH > : much lower priced products, you can bet that they will start to move7 > : programmers to India so they can lower their costs.  > :  >  > They've already started... > . >    http://news.com.com/2100-1021-996440.html8 >    SAP to invest $120 million in India | CNET News.com > + >    http://makeashorterlink.com/?F1ED25D76 F >    Microsoft planning huge BPO cluster in India - The Economic Times > J >   "BANGALORE: Microsoft, the world's No.1 software maker, is planning toJ >    build one of the largest BPO clusters in the country involving around >    9,000 professionals.  > I >    The company, which commenced its pilot BPO project, called Microsoft K >    Global Product Support Centre (GPSC) in May this year at Bangalore, in I >    now embarking on full-fledged BPO operations. (Will the BPO business E >    overtake software and hardware in the infotech sector in India?)  > F >    The operations here have the mandate to support around 54 millionJ >    users across Microsoft's product line, which includes Win Office, Win  >    Server systems and .NET..." > + >    http://makeashorterlink.com/?G3DD21D76 F >    Microsoft planning huge BPO cluster in India - The Economic Times >   < And this could be the thin end of the wedge for Switzerland.= The President, no less, has hust achieved this little number:   D http://www.swissinfo.org/sen/swissinfo.html?siteSect=105&sid=4441164  < "The five-day trip was aimed at strengthening scientific andH technological ties between the two countries and resulted in the signing of bilateral accords.   > Couchepin, who was accompanied on his visit by a delegation ofD representatives from the political, scientific and business spheres,> said his trip had brought forward the signing of the accords.   F Without this visit, it would have taken three years to reach the levelE of cooperation we have managed to achieve in three months, he said at  the end of his trip."    (see above link for full story)    Further background at D http://www.swissinfo.org/sen/swissinfo.html?siteSect=105&sid=4407047  E "Couchepins first stop is the city of Bangalore, the centre of Indias A computer industry, where he is due to attend a seminar along with < representatives from Indian and Swiss technology institutes.  D They are hoping to find common ground in the field of technology and7 negotiate the basis for several technological projects.   G We expect to find agreement on the exchange of students and professors, D as well as cooperation in scientific projects, said Charles Kleiber,) state secretary for science and research.   G Kleiber added that the long-term goal of the initiative was to set up a H Swiss-Indian research centre, which is to be funded by both governments.   Information technology  G Switzerland is planning to fund the project to the tune of SFr1 million D ($750,000) annually, and New Delhi has reportedly agreed to invest aF similar amount in the projects, which focus on information technology,! biotechnology and nanotechnology.                    G After visiting Madras and Hyderabad, the Swiss president is expected to C hold talks with President Kalam and the Indian prime minister, Atal  Behari Vajpayee, in New Delhi.  @ Couchepin and his Indian counterpart are due to sign a bilateral> agreement on scientific cooperation between the two countries.  H Rodolphe Imhoof, head of the Asia section at the Swiss foreign ministry,B believes that both countries could benefit from such an agreement.  G Closer cooperation with India in the technology sector also offers good A perspectives for the Swiss economy. India is already an important * economic partner for Switzerland, he said.   
  Trade volume   D According to the Swiss foreign ministry, trade with India amounts toD SFr1.2 billion a year, and Switzerland is the sixth-biggest European investor in India.  F Couchepin is also due to sign an agreement to ensure Swiss aid workersB are deployed more efficiently in the event of natural disasters in India.  C Swiss aid workers have been at the forefront during past disasters. B After the devastating earthquake in Gujarat in January 2001, Swiss< rescue personnel were the first to arrive in affected areas.  F Couchepins trip to India is the first state visit by a Swiss president? since 1998 when president Flavio Cotti travelled to New Delhi."   B Oh, and the Foreign Minister joined the trip on the last leg, with& promises of millions in financial aid:  D http://www.swissinfo.org/sen/swissinfo.html?siteSect=105&sid=1115410  ? Err, so the West gives India millions at the same time they are E competing against the West's professional classes (i.e. the taxpayers B who in total probably contribute most tax income) for work.         . Something surely has to give, sooner or later.   --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 01:25:42 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> Subject: Re: IA64 TPC results ) Message-ID: <3FB1D23A.85F28634@istop.com>    Greg Cagle wrote: D > Carly is talking about the CPU - you know, the thing that actually? > runs code 8^). Chipsets and systems are the surrounding stuff C > needed to build a complete computer. Do you really not know that?     F But if each manufacturer has motherboards with proprietary chipsets toM compensate for IA64's bloatedness, how "industry standard" will  IA64 systems  relaly be ?   I Will differences in motherboards be binary compatible across the range of I proprietary IA64 systems, or will an OS compiled for an HP system with HP K proprietary chipset not work properly on someone else's system with someone  else's proprietary chips ?  N Will each manufacturer who has its own proprietary support chipsets require to> have their own compilers to take advantage of those chipsets ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 07:59:07 +0000 * From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]> Subject: Re: IA64 TPC results ' Message-ID: <bosp6s$bsn$1@lore.csc.com>    Bill Gunshannon wrote: > 1 > In article <vr2bmdi0a3rl3d@corp.supernews.com>, 5 >         "rob kas" <robnospam@paychoice.com> writes:  > > ) > >         Does it really matter anymore G > >         For better or Worse we are sailing on the good ship Itanic.  > >  > @ > It matters if all of First Class jumps ship to seek passage on= > the HMS Sparky or USS PowerBox leaving only those locked in  > steerage.   B While that is correct, there could also be the idea that Sparky orC Powerbox is only a short-term leader. (There are other reasons that < jumping ship may happen, but I'm not considering that here).  E The point that I think keeps being missed is that all the performance H results are in one way or another geared to a "serial" performance rate,. shovel data in one end, results out the other.  D But the whole point of a parallel architecture (that could be at theB chip level or the cluster level) is that the *process* needs to beC turned into parallel shovels. An alternate way of thinking about an  application process.  E Or put another way, once you get to the speed of light, how do you go G faster? Have two things doing the speed of light? Is that faster, or is  it simply more just as fast?   --  ? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 05:23:01 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> Subject: Re: IA64 TPC results ) Message-ID: <3FB209C9.E3164DEC@istop.com>    Nic Clews wrote:G > Or put another way, once you get to the speed of light, how do you go I > faster? Have two things doing the speed of light? Is that faster, or is  > it simply more just as fast?  L If that IA64 thing doesn't give a technological edge to HP, then, with equalN products, it is the company with trust, good image, good service, fewer broken5 promises and best prices and marketing that will win.     M Digital survived because it had superior technology and good service, DESPITE L everything else being terrible. But by killing Alpha, HP has lost what wouldL have been its leaderhsip position in technology. And it lost trust which wasO further eroded by more broken promises such as EV79 and Tru64 porting to HP-UX.    ------------------------------   Date: 12 Nov 2003 13:18:31 GMT, From: bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: IA64 TPC results : Message-ID: <botbv5$1h5qa8$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>  3 In article <v$qZzaILi6V1@eisner.encompasserve.org>, . 	young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes: >  > N > "However, I also spoke with two major OEMs that design their own proprietaryQ > IA64 chipsets and systems. Both indicated that they were unable to keep up with   F And VMS is going to support all these varied and proprietary chipsets?& Sounds like a boon for Linux, not VMS.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 14:03:51 GMT 9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>  Subject: Re: IA64 TPC results 2 Message-ID: <b5rsb.8861$d76.5259@news.cpqcorp.net>  7 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message # news:3FB1D23A.85F28634@istop.com...  > Greg Cagle wrote: F > > Carly is talking about the CPU - you know, the thing that actuallyA > > runs code 8^). Chipsets and systems are the surrounding stuff E > > needed to build a complete computer. Do you really not know that?  >  > H > But if each manufacturer has motherboards with proprietary chipsets toG > compensate for IA64's bloatedness, how "industry standard" will  IA64  systems 
 > relaly be ?  >   J You really don't understand HW or OS design.  The chipsets aren't designedL to "compensate" for anything.  Companies who design and build there own coreF logic chips do so in the belief that they can provide some value addedI either in performance, or functionality.  This generally has no effect on H application code - aside from perhaps that it runs faster/better, or the system is more reliable.  K > Will differences in motherboards be binary compatible across the range of K > proprietary IA64 systems, or will an OS compiled for an HP system with HP E > proprietary chipset not work properly on someone else's system with  someone  > else's proprietary chips ? >   K If the OS does the right thing, it should be transparent.  But why do *you* K care?  Are you writing OS code?  The PAL/SAL/EFI/ACPI/IPMI layers, plus all L the other specifications around the system ensure that a properly written OSL (in the absence of bugs or other restrictions in the OS) will run on any IPF3 system.  It might not take advantage of proprietary 2 extensions/features/capabilities that are present.  E > Will each manufacturer who has its own proprietary support chipsets 
 require to@ > have their own compilers to take advantage of those chipsets ?  J No.  We are talking about the chips that glue memory to the CPU, and IO toJ the CPU, and provide other value added features like an IOTLB.  These haveG nothing to do with compilers or the CPU's instruction set architecture.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 14:07:28 GMT 9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>  Subject: Re: IA64 TPC results 2 Message-ID: <A8rsb.8862$H76.2790@news.cpqcorp.net>  9 "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message 4 news:botbv5$1h5qa8$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de...5 > In article <v$qZzaILi6V1@eisner.encompasserve.org>, / > young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:  > >  > > D > > "However, I also spoke with two major OEMs that design their own proprietary K > > IA64 chipsets and systems. Both indicated that they were unable to keep  up with  > H > And VMS is going to support all these varied and proprietary chipsets?( > Sounds like a boon for Linux, not VMS. >   I The good news is that the core logic chipsets are programmed by firmware, L throught firmware/ACPI callbacks, and unless the OS is trying to take directH advantage of some feature/knowledge - the OS doesn't really need to knowA about it.  This is unlike the Alpha FW/SW design where the OS was : responsible for programming the core logic chips directly.  J The intent for IPF is that any properly written OS, in the absence of bugsI or other OS restrictions, should be able to run without change on any IPF 	 platform.    ------------------------------    Date: 12 Nov 2003 08:07:58 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)  Subject: Re: IA64 TPC results 3 Message-ID: <6zmr7H3z7H+V@eisner.encompasserve.org>   i In article <botbv5$1h5qa8$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>, bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: 5 > In article <v$qZzaILi6V1@eisner.encompasserve.org>, 0 > 	young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes: >>   >>  O >> "However, I also spoke with two major OEMs that design their own proprietarynR >> IA64 chipsets and systems. Both indicated that they were unable to keep up with > H > And VMS is going to support all these varied and proprietary chipsets?( > Sounds like a boon for Linux, not VMS. >   : 	I think you have to sharpen your FUD stick, this has been  	addressed - even by developers:  k http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=fD9C8.11%24Jh6.461956%40cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net&oe=UTF-8&output=gplaino  5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>  Newsgroups: comp.os.vms4/ Subject: Re: Alpha to ia64: where is the issue?r# Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 13:21:15 GMT4    F >I do not have a problem with it. I mourned the passing of the TadpoleE >and it no longer being supported, but when I asked someone who knew,gH >about VMS on a laptop, when it comes to Itanium there will be _no_ moreF >mucking about with SRM and firmware, it'll just 'go'. (No commitment,< >but this is the design goal which will most likely happen). >d  G There will be no special firmware, although the VMS installation itself K "may" provide a boot manager to provide a VMS-friendly interface.  But onlya@ using standard EFI interfaces that will work on any IA64 system.   ---   B 	That is a little trickier to FUD up as "any IA64 system" has been@ 	discussed elsewhere and it pretty much means "any IA64 system."   				Robc  H "An old Oregon rancher once told me, there are three types of men in theL world.  One type learns from books.  One type learns from observations.  And< one type just has to urinate on the electric fence himself."  <                                         -- Carl Barney, 1996   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 14:22:19 GMTV9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>s Subject: Re: IA64 TPC resultse2 Message-ID: <vmrsb.8868$IH5.1194@news.cpqcorp.net>  H The single largest restriction in VMS is that we haven't learned to dealF with a lack of map registers (aka IOTLB).  Since we required all AlphaL systems to provide this capability, most non-trivial drivers assume that map registers are available.  % The HP Itanium systems have an IOTLB.e  L The Intel reference designs do not.  This means that drivers need to be ableF to handle the case where there is more than 4gb of memory, they have aH device that isn't 64-bit capable, and there is no IOTLB - that is - they1 need to be able to do an intemediate buffer copy.t  G In Linux this is called "bounce buffers".  On NT, this is transparently - handled in the DMA setup.  In UNIX it varies.o  I We will (eventually) provide a new DMA interface that new drivers can usesH that will handle this transparently.  And eventually devices will all beK 64-bit and we will use their scatter/gather capability.  But those existingtJ drivers that assume IOTLB's would need to be modified by hand to deal withJ the lack of map registers -- and since our focus is on getting out ASAP on/ HP hardware this is *not* a high priority item.1  H Eventually it will resolve itself.  Nothing else prevents any random IPF- system from booting (in the absence of bugs).p    8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:6zmr7H3z7H+V@eisner.encompasserve.org...e< > In article <botbv5$1h5qa8$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>,. bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:7 > > In article <v$qZzaILi6V1@eisner.encompasserve.org>,s1 > > young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:- > >> > >>E > >> "However, I also spoke with two major OEMs that design their own  proprietaryaL > >> IA64 chipsets and systems. Both indicated that they were unable to keep up with  > > J > > And VMS is going to support all these varied and proprietary chipsets?* > > Sounds like a boon for Linux, not VMS. > >c >.; > I think you have to sharpen your FUD stick, this has been,! > addressed - even by developers:i >R >tk http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=fD9C8.11%24Jh6.461956%40cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain  >B7 > From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>e > Newsgroups: comp.os.vmsy1 > Subject: Re: Alpha to ia64: where is the issue?G% > Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 13:21:15 GMTr >e >iH > >I do not have a problem with it. I mourned the passing of the TadpoleG > >and it no longer being supported, but when I asked someone who knew, J > >about VMS on a laptop, when it comes to Itanium there will be _no_ moreH > >mucking about with SRM and firmware, it'll just 'go'. (No commitment,> > >but this is the design goal which will most likely happen). > >e >eI > There will be no special firmware, although the VMS installation itselfnH > "may" provide a boot manager to provide a VMS-friendly interface.  But onlyB > using standard EFI interfaces that will work on any IA64 system. >_ > ---  > C > That is a little trickier to FUD up as "any IA64 system" has been A > discussed elsewhere and it pretty much means "any IA64 system."  >  > Robn >*J > "An old Oregon rancher once told me, there are three types of men in theI > world.  One type learns from books.  One type learns from observations.s Andc> > one type just has to urinate on the electric fence himself." >t> >                                         -- Carl Barney, 1996   ------------------------------   Date: 12 Nov 2003 15:09:36 GMT, From: bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: IA64 TPC resultsa: Message-ID: <botiff$1iac47$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>  3 In article <6zmr7H3z7H+V@eisner.encompasserve.org>,d. 	young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:k > In article <botbv5$1h5qa8$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>, bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: 6 >> In article <v$qZzaILi6V1@eisner.encompasserve.org>,1 >> 	young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:I >>>  >>> P >>> "However, I also spoke with two major OEMs that design their own proprietaryS >>> IA64 chipsets and systems. Both indicated that they were unable to keep up witht >> mI >> And VMS is going to support all these varied and proprietary chipsets? ) >> Sounds like a boon for Linux, not VMS.  >>   > < > 	I think you have to sharpen your FUD stick, this has been" > 	addressed - even by developers:  C Not trying to FUD anyone.  I just have this knack for seeing thingsyG that can (and according to Murphy, usually will) go wrong in a project.aC How many models of Alpha were produced that could not run VMS?  Wasn? it deliberate or just something different in their make-up that A caused this?  If Engineering can promise (something I doubt) thatCA VMS will run on any IA64 hardware, all the better, But support is-D going to be another matter, too.  But, like with all of this so far, only time will tell.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   -   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 15:19:58 GMTe& From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net> Subject: Re: IA64 TPC results 8 Message-ID: <ikj4rvg7pqufn1jjlumvj9dl34bpqcfujj@4ax.com>  H On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 19:56:05 -0500, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote:     >0M >People will buy products from any vendor when it isn't a strategic decision..H >And HP, with its broken commitments, has lost the "respected enterpriseM >vendor" label and has gained "just another commodity vendor to whom you have 
 >no loyalty".t >uM >The problem with those "commodity" vendors (think about no-name products) isoN >that when the time comes to make long terms strategic platform decisions, you' >don't choose a vendor you can't trust.*  H Of course, the big difference is that HP is not just another "commodity"K vendor.  There are very value-added capabilities; such as Enterprise-level;0I strategic consulting; real 24x7 support services; enterprise-class SYSTEMsB engineering (i.e., not just commodity, white-box generic systems);K state-of-the art IT Service Management (ITIL/ITSM0 architecture & products;tA and truly world-class managed services (just to name a few).  Our@K experience in many aspects of technology - at the STRATEGIC level - is mucheB more valuable than just getting the cheapest desktop you can find.  H HP is a company that still invests a significant amount into R&D in manyD different areas - technologies (servers, printers, etc.), as well as" business and IT-related processes.  I Your comparison, in other words, is really just not valid - or, to put iteJ another way, is only valid if you significantly restrict your view to only one part of our business.c   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:14:37 +0100c* From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>, Subject: Re: Image needs to know where it is0 Message-ID: <3FB2080D.7A6914CA@sture.homeip.net>   JF Mezei wrote:d >  > jlsue wrote:L > > Every application should have at least one system-level logical assigned& > > for it.  This would be of the form > >r > >         <appname>_dira > >vE > > which should be assigned to "disk:[directory]" of the applicationd > K > For a big application with multiple directories, I would agree. But for aeK > simple utility that only needs access to one or two files and which isn't P > widely used, is it really good to force the definition of a systemwide logicalD > at system startup just so that this small utility could function ?  G Interesting. My inclination would be to stick to logical names. RunningeG different versions of the software concurrently springs to mind, though D in that case group or process logicals are probably more appropriate than system wide ones.  C The big drawback off the top of my head with your method is that it3G could encourage the use of hard coded device/directory names in command  procedures.T   -- N
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:22:36 +0100r* From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>, Subject: Re: Image needs to know where it is/ Message-ID: <3FB2260C.53632B1@sture.homeip.net>    JF Mezei wrote:i >  > Paul Sture wrote:aG > > The big drawback off the top of my head with your method is that it K > > could encourage the use of hard coded device/directory names in commando > > procedures.a > P > For my particular use now, it is for an interactive utility that isn't invoked > from a command procedure.t >   ! I was thinking of login/sylogin. n  N > For installation of freeware, it is easier if you can leave all files in oneO > directory, as opposed to asking  installer to move some files to sys$library, M > sys$help, and some of the more obscure directories for decwindows defaults.b   OK.i   -- A
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 05:34:01 -0500p* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>, Subject: Re: Image needs to know where it is) Message-ID: <3FB20C5D.72FA4486@istop.com>e   Paul Sture wrote:eE > The big drawback off the top of my head with your method is that itsI > could encourage the use of hard coded device/directory names in commandm
 > procedures.o  N For my particular use now, it is for an interactive utility that isn't invoked from a command procedure.I  L For installation of freeware, it is easier if you can leave all files in oneM directory, as opposed to asking  installer to move some files to sys$library,tK sys$help, and some of the more obscure directories for decwindows defaults.S   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 15:21:51 GMT & From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net>, Subject: Re: Image needs to know where it is8 Message-ID: <k1k4rvg0r4t0p0m16moqd86vceeo5j3stk@4ax.com>  H On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 19:59:47 -0500, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote:  
 >jlsue wrote:-K >> Every application should have at least one system-level logical assigneda% >> for it.  This would be of the forma >> t >>         <appname>_dir >>  D >> which should be assigned to "disk:[directory]" of the application > J >For a big application with multiple directories, I would agree. But for aJ >simple utility that only needs access to one or two files and which isn'tO >widely used, is it really good to force the definition of a systemwide logical C >at system startup just so that this small utility could function ?t   Yes.  K If you start out that way, then if/when the application grows there will be-J much less to change later.  It has been my experience that these things DO sneak up on you eventually..   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 15:23:40 GMTh& From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net>, Subject: Re: Image needs to know where it is8 Message-ID: <l3k4rv4lraat7o0shdve7u6kfpq0kkdcel@4ax.com>  H On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 05:34:01 -0500, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote:   >Paul Sture wrote:F >> The big drawback off the top of my head with your method is that itJ >> could encourage the use of hard coded device/directory names in command >> procedures. >aO >For my particular use now, it is for an interactive utility that isn't invokedi >from a command procedure. > M >For installation of freeware, it is easier if you can leave all files in onerN >directory, as opposed to asking  installer to move some files to sys$library,L >sys$help, and some of the more obscure directories for decwindows defaults.  B The logical definition still works fine for this scenario as well.J Say you have a [KITS] or a [TOOLS] directory, you just define system-levelH logicals for each appliction in that directory, but pointing to the sameH place.  It is really not a big deal to manage, and as things change (forH example, you may have to split your [tools] directory at some point), it- will make life easier for the system manager.o   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Nov 2003 10:53:52 +0100, From: More Mezei News <mezeinews@readit.now>9 Subject: Re: London to be disrupted next week by JF Mezei 9 Message-ID: <0QDM37KL37937.4529976852@Gilgamesh-frog.org>l  J JF Mezei, in yet another psychotic rant in his "Racoon" series, put on his@ "Educated Raccoon" <E.Raccoon@wilderness.org> mask and bellowed:  K >Some idiot head of a police state will be visiting London next week, alongeO >with his secret police and some 700 staff members to protect him from attacks.eK >He asked for all of central london closed, but the UK has so far refused. .J >Nevertheless, one should expect major disruptions to traffic as the idiot8 >parades around in his convoy of bulletproof limousines.   *snip*   Off your meds again, JF?   --E Join JF Mezei's Usenet Ranting Club and you too can be on your way tomH receiving JF's "educated opinions" on a wide variety of topics, given byG his multiple aliases like the ones below, each one to suit a particularr mood:m  $ Flapping Labias <flabia@anatomy.org>% Throbbing vulva <t.vulva@anatomy.org>l Twin Gonads <two@gonads.com>% Loose Scrotum <l.scrotum@anatomy.org>d" Raised Organ <R.Organ@anatomy.org>$ Popped Cherry <P.Cherry@anatomy.org>- Monica Lewinski <billclinton@westchester.com>m' Deep Fried Foreskin <dff@mcdonalds.com> " Aroma of Smegma <aroma@chanel.org> Wet fart <w.Fart@smell.org>n' Pubic dandruff <P.dandruff@anatomy.org>s( Voluptuous Nipple <V.nipple@anatomy.org>& Inserted Finger <I.Finger@anatomy.org> Pubic Nair <shaved@anatomy.org>i' Flatulent Meatus <F.Meatus@anatomy.org>r% Lihk Mhygroin <L.MyGroin@anatomy.org>e Pre Khum <P.Khum@anatomy.org>y! Phi Mosis <Phi.Mosis@anatomy.org> # Bal Anatis <Bal.Anatis@anatomy.org>t  Fren Ullum <F.Ullum@anatomy.org>$ Ivanna Getlaid <I.Getlaid@onani.org>& Ivanna Wankalot <I.Wankalot@onani.org>$ Ivanna Umpalot <Humpalot@drevil.com>* Wan Tnoneofit <W.Tnoneofit@weirdnames.org> Wan Itbad <W.Itbad@inneed.org>! Wan Towank <W.ToWank@anatomy.org>. Wan Tolik <w.tolik@anatomy.org>r$ Testos Terone <t.terone@anatomy.org>! Upper Gonad <U.Gonad@anatomy.org>e! Right Gonad <R.Gonad@anatomy.org>-  Left Gonad <L.Gonad@anatomy.org>$ Tyson's Glands <Tyson.G@anatomy.org> Nose Hair <n.hair@anatomy.org>% Coronal Sulcus <C.Sulcus@anatomy.org>g% Corpus Cavernus <manhood@anatomy.org>e$ Armpit moisture <armpit@anatomy.org> Onani Room <onani@hotels.com>.& Arnie's Banana <weiner@terminator.com>( Raised eyebrows <r.eyebrows@anatomy.org>% Vas Deferens <V.deferens@anatomy.org>u% Naked Canuck <N.canuck@naturists.org>a& Arni's socks <Smelly.Socks@arnold.org>* Notable Exception <N.exception@untied.com>& Unpopped Cherry <U.Cherry@anatomy.org>' Tatooed Ovaries <T.Ovaries@anatomy.org>e' Pierced eyelid <p.eyelid@piercings.org> ( Limp Tomato <limp.tomato@vegetables.org>, Eggplant Earrings <e.earrings@piercings.org>. Banana Underpants <B.Underpants@hillfiger.org> Naval Lint <navel@lint.mil> ' Ingrown Toenail <i.toenail@anatomy.org>a% Empty Stomach <E.Stomach@anatomy.org>a$ Full Stomach <f.stomach@anatomy.org>" Smelly Cat <S.Cat@friends.nbc.com>& Torn Ligament <T.Ligament@anatomy.org> etc.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:37:45 GMTc5 From: "Gregory Morrow" <gregory.morrow@earthlink.net>o9 Subject: Re: London to be disrupted next week by JF Mezei D Message-ID: <Z3osb.22315$Oo4.14400@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>   More Mezei News wrote:  L > JF Mezei, in yet another psychotic rant in his "Racoon" series, put on hisB > "Educated Raccoon" <E.Raccoon@wilderness.org> mask and bellowed: >nG > >Some idiot head of a police state will be visiting London next week,t alongoH > >with his secret police and some 700 staff members to protect him from attacks.L > >He asked for all of central london closed, but the UK has so far refused.L > >Nevertheless, one should expect major disruptions to traffic as the idiot: > >parades around in his convoy of bulletproof limousines. >t > *snip* >s > Off your meds again, JF?    F Uh oh!  I thought I kinda recognized JF's style in these "racoon" [sp] posts!   -- m Best Greg lol....   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Nov 2003 02:36:59 -0800. From: fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso)" Subject: Re: OpenVMS and HP Nimbus= Message-ID: <f30679fb.0311120236.361423f5@posting.google.com>   E I think HP is lost... this company have a lot of products which would C be welcome in the OVMS world, but they dont port or integrate these F products under OVMS ! I am saying printer products, image (scanners), G software like OpenView, etc.... The company have all the resoursces buto7 the OVMS group looks like isolated .. who is the Guilt?l   Regards    FC v  s "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> wrote in message news:<Or7sb.8801$Z15.1559@news.cpqcorp.net>...t > Nimbus is the VMS strategy.- > = > "Fabio Cardoso" <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote in messagem9 > news:f30679fb.0311080803.75d7cfd2@posting.google.com...f7 > > Anyone know about OpenVMS plans for the HP Nimbus ?. > >1 > >t= > > http://news.com.com/2100-7784_3-5104611.html?tag=nefd_topw > >3 > >p > > Regardst > >n > > FC   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Nov 2003 02:37:00 -0800. From: fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso)" Subject: Re: OpenVMS and HP Nimbus< Message-ID: <f30679fb.0311120237.4b2db97@posting.google.com>  E I think HP is lost... this company have a lot of products which wouldeC be welcome in the OVMS world, but they dont port or integrate theseoF products under OVMS ! I am saying printer products, image (scanners), G software like OpenView, etc.... The company have all the resoursces but 7 the OVMS group looks like isolated .. who is the Guilt?9   Regardso   FC t  s "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> wrote in message news:<Or7sb.8801$Z15.1559@news.cpqcorp.net>...t > Nimbus is the VMS strategy.e > = > "Fabio Cardoso" <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote in messaget9 > news:f30679fb.0311080803.75d7cfd2@posting.google.com...c7 > > Anyone know about OpenVMS plans for the HP Nimbus ?h > >/ > >c= > > http://news.com.com/2100-7784_3-5104611.html?tag=nefd_topn > >a > >E > > Regards  > >  > > FC   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 14:11:41 GMTr9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>f" Subject: Re: OpenVMS and HP Nimbus2 Message-ID: <xcrsb.8863$b76.8006@news.cpqcorp.net>    VMS will be supporting OpenView.  ; "Fabio Cardoso" <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote in messagem6 news:f30679fb.0311120237.4b2db97@posting.google.com...G > I think HP is lost... this company have a lot of products which would E > be welcome in the OVMS world, but they dont port or integrate these G > products under OVMS ! I am saying printer products, image (scanners), I > software like OpenView, etc.... The company have all the resoursces but 9 > the OVMS group looks like isolated .. who is the Guilt?n >f	 > Regards  >S > FC >tF > "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> wrote in message. news:<Or7sb.8801$Z15.1559@news.cpqcorp.net>... > > Nimbus is the VMS strategy.s > >d? > > "Fabio Cardoso" <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote in message ; > > news:f30679fb.0311080803.75d7cfd2@posting.google.com...i9 > > > Anyone know about OpenVMS plans for the HP Nimbus ?T > > >- > > >p? > > > http://news.com.com/2100-7784_3-5104611.html?tag=nefd_topt > > >e > > >u
 > > > Regardsl > > >t > > > FC   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Nov 2003 10:46:36 -0800. From: fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso) Subject: Oracle RDB and $status = Message-ID: <f30679fb.0311121046.2edec2f0@posting.google.com>a  , Any idea when this problem will be solved ? . RDB still not changing the $status at the end + of the operations. I will need to integrate,% the RMU/Backup with BMC Control-M and )  there is no way for checking the status. 3 Any other symbol or logical name could be defined ?o     Regardst   FC   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 14:27:11 GMT 9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>s* Subject: Re: OT: an example of a modern OS2 Message-ID: <3rrsb.8870$586.5239@news.cpqcorp.net>  D The X11 Window System is the R6.6 release for both client and serverI The Motif libraries are V1.2 based.  Of course, even though V2.x has beennL out on UNIX for years, many people still use V1.2.  Very few people use V2.x? features.  The biggest deficit is that V1.2 is not thread safe.n    7 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in messagei# news:3FA8E553.F414F761@istop.com...i > Richard Brodie wrote: I > > Sigh. Shouldn't that be "I'm pleased to see that VMS engineering haven brought the 0 > > X implementation on VMS up to date at last"? >5! > Isn't it still at 1.2 for VAX ?r >rC > And I think that Alpha is getting an upgrade to 1.5 when other HP ! > implementations of X are at 2.1n   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 17:50:59 +0100y) From: Michael Unger <unger@despammed.com> : Subject: Re: status or itrc and OpenVMS Patch Mailing List: Message-ID: <botohu$1hs8an$1@ID-152801.news.uni-berlin.de>  / On 2003-11-12 16:43, "George Pagliarulo" wrote:   N > As Brad says the digests are the method for getting notified of new patches.N > However, the digests themselves are changing.  In the future the digest will2 > be replaced by Subscriber's Choice.  Current URLF > is:(http://www.homeandoffice.hp.com/hho/cache/3618-0-0-225-121.aspx) > I > I do not know if people subscribed to the digests will automagically benN > subscribed to Subscriber's Choice for patch notices.  I would doubt it.  TheI > good news is (maybe) that you can choose your notification frequency inrI > Subscriber's Choice  - daily, weekly, as released etc.  I haven't heard J > definitely yet but those options may be available for the patch notices.  4 Requires JavaScript and cookies to work properly ...  ( And what about the "pop-up windows" fromE <http://content.channelintelligence.com/scripts/ykb_popupWindow.js> ?n  B Selecting "support alerts" and searching for the "product" OpenVMSE results in a list of a few topics more or less related to OpenVMS andS' each with its *own* "subscribe" option.    Michaeli   -- l; Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers. @ Please do *not* send "Security Patch Notifications" or "SecurityA Updates"; this system isn't running a Micro$oft operating system.1= My e-mail account at DECUS Munich will expire on 31-Dec-2003.t   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 15:43:57 GMTp2 From: "George Pagliarulo" <georgepag@adelphia.net>: Subject: Re: status or itrc and OpenVMS Patch Mailing List2 Message-ID: <1zssb.8874$ud6.3910@news.cpqcorp.net>  L As Brad says the digests are the method for getting notified of new patches.L However, the digests themselves are changing.  In the future the digest will0 be replaced by Subscriber's Choice.  Current URLD is:(http://www.homeandoffice.hp.com/hho/cache/3618-0-0-225-121.aspx)  G I do not know if people subscribed to the digests will automagically be L subscribed to Subscriber's Choice for patch notices.  I would doubt it.  TheG good news is (maybe) that you can choose your notification frequency inlG Subscriber's Choice  - daily, weekly, as released etc.  I haven't heardiH definitely yet but those options may be available for the patch notices.   George Pagliaruloe ECO Release Processp OpenVMS Sustaining Engineering Hewlett Packard Companyo  9 "Jim Strehlow" <JimStrehlow@data911.com> wrote in messageo7 news:4b6ec350.0311111453.174f316e@posting.google.com...nH > What is the status of the I.T.R.C. and the OpenVMS Patch Mailing List?H > I noticed two new patches at ITRC for which I did not receive anything% > via the OpenVMS Patch Mailing List. : > Is the new H.P. policy that we must check for ourselves?H > No "Windows Update Notification" equivalent which is what I considered! > the OpenVMS Patch Mailing List?d >r& > JimStrehlow, OpenVMS Systems Manager >b> > The opinions are my own and do not reflect upon my employer.   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 07:34:35 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)4 Subject: Re: SYPAGSWPFILES still replace on upgrade?$ Message-ID: <bosnqb$3pd$1@online.de>  > In article <3FAE8381.B2CEEC4D@blueyonder.co.uk>, Tim Llewellyn) <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk> writes: o  E > > Can one at least safely assume that the previous version is there  > > after the upgrade? > 9 > You are doing an upgrade without taking a backup first?t  H Not at all.  However, under normal circumstances I don't expect to have  to use the upgrade!t   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 08:19:48 +0100u From: "B.Eckstein" <eck@ivu.de>l% Subject: Re: VAX 6130 relaunched !!!!s- Message-ID: <bosmuk$rp8$2@swifty.westend.com>a  * JF Mezei schrub im Jahre 12.11.2003 05:04:  O > For all those who had been convinced that VAX was out of production, the 6130tS > has been relaunched. It is available in 3 variations, the 6130, 6130S and 6130SX.j >  > Full details at:. > http://www.vax.co.uk/pages/products/6130.htm > . > For now, these are only available in the UK.  * Hm, only one processor and no upgrades :-(F And if the 6130 is 32bits, is 6130sx only 16Bits? And manf'd by Intel?   Questions, questions... ;-)D   -- 0G B.Eckstein, eck@ivu.de         Cheap, Fast, Good - pick any two of themy9 Die FAQ zu de.comp.hardware.netzwerke: http://how.to/dchneG Mozilla-Tips: http://mozilla-anleitung.de/ http://www.holgermetzger.de/   D "Auch wenn ich die Funktionsweise dieser Konsole nicht kenne, glaube# ich nicht, dass sie rauchen sollte"    ------------------------------    Date: 12 Nov 2003 08:04:04 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)i% Subject: Re: VAX 6130 relaunched !!!!t3 Message-ID: <D3h7aV5YF28O@eisner.encompasserve.org>   V In article <3FB1B125.DF92CFDD@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes:O > For all those who had been convinced that VAX was out of production, the 6130rS > has been relaunched. It is available in 3 variations, the 6130, 6130S and 6130SX.  >  > Full details at:. > http://www.vax.co.uk/pages/products/6130.htm  @    I new they were going to have to have a water handling system    eventually.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 15:21:52 +0100g, From: "Rob Turk" <_wipe_me_r.turk@chello.nl>% Subject: Re: VAX 6130 relaunched !!!!a? Message-ID: <3fb24200$0$18488$e4fe514c@dreader4.news.xs4all.nl>y  7 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message # news:3FB1B125.DF92CFDD@istop.com...hJ > For all those who had been convinced that VAX was out of production, the 6130K > has been relaunched. It is available in 3 variations, the 6130, 6130S ande 6130SX.  >l > Full details at:. > http://www.vax.co.uk/pages/products/6130.htm >r. > For now, these are only available in the UK.  ( Now we all know that a VAX 6130 sucks... ;-)-   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Nov 2003 11:56:48 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)c% Subject: Re: VAX 6130 relaunched !!!!b3 Message-ID: <Vp7GtfdqaE9A@eisner.encompasserve.org>f  O In article <bosmuk$rp8$2@swifty.westend.com>, "B.Eckstein" <eck@ivu.de> writes:  > , > Hm, only one processor and no upgrades :-(H > And if the 6130 is 32bits, is 6130sx only 16Bits? And manf'd by Intel?  :    Judging by the color, I'd expect them all to be 36 bit.   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Nov 2003 10:09:08 -0600' From: jim@info2.uah.edu (Jim McCullars)a  Subject: VMS Perl Question re LF( Message-ID: <botlv4$gar$1@info2.uah.edu>  
 Greetings:  H    I'm having a problem with Perl 5.004_04 running on our VMS host.  In H searching Google, I can see that others appear to have similar problems,I but I was unable to find a solution.  Hopefully someone can offer advice.e  I    I am having to use perl to read and process some production data filessE that were produced by COBOL and have some COMP and COMP-3 fields.  OntH occasion, a value of x'0D' (LF) may appear in one of those fields.  WhenI that happens, the line that I get returned will be truncated.  I am doingrF a normal OPEN and while (<IN>) to get the lines.  A dir/full shows the following attributes:k  . Organization:  Indexed, Prolog: 3, Using 1 key'                              In 2 areast Shelved state:      Online  Caching attribute:  WritethroughM File attributes:    Allocation: 172278, Extend: 43056, Maximum bucket size: 9p<                     Global buffer count: 0, No version limit'                     Contiguous best try H Record format:      Variable length, maximum 4096 bytes, longest 0 bytes4 Record attributes:  Carriage return carriage control RMS attributes:     None Journaling enabled: None  G    I tried using "binmode IN;" but that seemed to append lines together D (in other words, VMS reports that file has 64 lines, but when I used binmode, I read 21 lines).  G    Can anyone offer advice as to how I can read these files?  Thanks...e  
 Jim McCullarsi# University of Alabama in Huntsvilled   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.628 ************************----  # Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 14:07:28 GMT 9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>  Subject: Re: IA64 TPC results 2 Mess&c=dM76q3`U3p&X];yoph\9HRB
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